001[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Do you [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Monday, August 18th, committee of the whole meeting of the Pen Manor uh school board. The next scheduled meeting of the Penmanor School Board will be held on Tuesday, September 2nd, 2025 at 7 p.m. in a large group instruction room of Penmanor High School. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel as detailed above. Mrs. Rhodess, may we have a roll call, please? >> Sure. Mr. Beaks, >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo >> here. >> Mr. Stro >> here. Mr. Swigert >> here. >> Mr. Warfl >> here. >> Miss Wart >> here. Mrs. Napsiger >> here. Dr. Fullerton >> here. >> Nine board members present. >> I would love to entertain
002a motion to approve the minutes of our August 4th committee of the whole meeting. >> So move. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mr. Her? >> Yes. Nine affirmative votes. >> Board development opportunities and reports. Do we have any board reports? >> Yes, I do. Dr. Fullerton, I had mentioned at our last meeting we did not have a meeting for the Lancaster County Academy JC. Uh but that we were in the process of painting and cleaning. Contract with Park City for our East Campus began July 1st. So they've spent the month of July into just this past week painting and cleaning and whatnot. So today was actual moving day. So the furniture as I had indicated before most
003of that was given by Lamp Peter Strasburg and Mannheim Central School Districts and they were setting up today. And uh you I want to add too one of the contract we are contracting out for our cleaning park city does not include that in our contract. One of the gals who graduated from Lancaster County Academy is in a cleaning business and she's going to do that for the academy at a discounted rate to pay back to the academy. So that's that's pretty special. Anyway, um you will have an opportunity to visit the site. Dr. Gail, did you get an invite yet so far to they're calling it the big reveal on September 24th where school districts, administration, board directors, whatever can come. So, I will uh check with our director and find out when that information
004is going out, but that should be uh coming. And that is September 24th. If you want to mark your calendars if anybody's interested in uh checking it out at 5:00. And um I was wondering as a board if you would be interested in having our director for the academy to come and just do a little presentation of the board. Is that something that you would be interested? She's more than willing to go out to the districts that are well not even even those that aren't participating but especially those that are and just kind of you know fill you in on how things go and give uh you an opportunity to ask questions and we could limit the presentation to whatever amount of time. So I'm seeing heads nodding Dr. Fullerton if that >> I think
005it's a wonderful idea. >> Okay. So, uh, I can contact her about that if you want to give me some kind of directive as to the amount of minutes. >> Think you can just check with her availability. >> Okay. >> On one of our meetings and then we can figure out the agenda from there. >> All right. >> And whether we do that like we did tonight as a kind of a workshop prehand. >> Yeah. >> Or you can be our first action item agenda item. >> Right. Exactly. I'll >> let her look at our our calendar. >> What works for her in terms of meeting time. Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right. >> It it is it's a great idea, Miss Wart. Uh I >> think so. >> She she provides a a great
006insight perspective and this is her is this her third year or second year? >> Third year. Third year. >> She's done a fantastic job and really works passionate about working with the kids. >> She is passionate. She Yes. Aleno lost a good administrator when they gave her up, but but she fits very well in this in this uh position. But I'll do that. I'll let her know and tell >> if she wants to just reach out to me. >> Okay. I'll do that contact. Okay. All right. >> Thank you. >> Mhm. >> Thank you, Mrs. Work. >> Mhm. >> Uh we had the Lancaster Lebanon IU board meeting on Wednesday. Nothing really of note. Uh still trying to staff some of our most difficult positions. Um we did authorize a revenue anticipatory note just uh
007in case there is uh any type of budget uh continued delay um which uh unfortunately we have to do but and then taxpayers will have to be we have to make up that interest. the taxpayer well through services but um and it was our new assistant executive director Dr. Lynette Waller's first board meeting as the assistant executive director. >> So Miss Nat >> did you have Mr. Rol did you have something? I thought I saw you. Um, I think now >> we want to mention that the Pen Matter Ed Foundation annual gala is on the 21st at 5:30 at Trmore State. It's an opportunity to be philanthropic and have dollars that can come back into the classrooms. Um, you can get tickets on Eventbrite and or contact my wife. >> Is that a Thursday night?
008>> Sunday night. >> Sunday the 21st. It's always a Sunday. >> Thank you. >> Oh, I'm thinking August. >> Yeah. >> Oh, question for Joe. Um, Dr. Phil, I'm sorry. Um, what is the ramifications for >> school district? Should they have to implement the actual loan? And are we going to have to do a special budgetary? >> Well, I first we're going to hear about some of that in a little bit. So, >> so >> hold that thought. >> I will do that. Thank you. >> All right. Anybody else before I go? >> No, just you mentioned Lynette. >> Yep. >> Where is she uh from? Is she from? >> She uh was uh at the school district of Lancaster. >> Okay. >> Um she was an assistant superintendent at why not why I'm missing
009a city but up in Parks County. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, she's uh she's this is her second tour at the IU. You know, she was there. Well, she was uh at the school district in Lancaster when I first arrived here and we were on the curriculum coordinators. >> Yeah, it sounds familiar name. >> Okay. Board opportunities. If you haven't looked yet, Mrs. Rhodess has been busy. Um we have all of our board breakfasts listed. Um, and I will let you check those and put them on your calendar a while and give you reminders as we get closer. Um, but of note, Wednesday, August 20th is the kickoff classic at Comet Field. It starts at 7:30, but there'll be food trucks at 6:00 p.m. Um, come and cheer on all of our fall athletes.
010Um, next Monday is the first day for students. And then also of note, we'll have a meeting between now and then, but just so you make sure you get on your calendars, our first board breakfast of the school year will be at Hambrite on September 17th, 8:15 a.m. So, that's all I have. Oh, and there's still time to go to Kalahari for the PSBA conference. Today is the deadline. So, if you'd like to join Mr. Lombardo and Dr. Gail, run. Don't walk to Mrs. Rhodess after the meeting today. And back to you, Dr. Fullerton. >> Thank you, Tony. You're welcome. >> I'm trying. I'm trying, Mr. Lombardo. >> All right. >> So, we'll move right into item number one, the budget calendar. We just passed the budget, >> Mr. Ford. >> Yes, we did. >>
011And now we have to do it again. >> The emphasis on the week. >> So, this so taking a look at uh believe it or not, as Dr. for him said we're going to start talking about 2627. This is that interesting time of year where we're looking at next year, implementing this year, and still closing out last year. Um, so it's always very important to clarify what year you're in as you're having conversations. So, so why are we doing this? Um, Dr. Gail, many of you heard as he talked this morning, you know, we're really trying to figure out how do we meet this mission and how do we stay focused on it? And and clearly from from the priorities that you set for us and for Dr. Gail, it's really looking at how do
012we make sure that we have a sustainable fiscal plan uh to implement to do that. So, we've talked about a little in the past uh I know just as a refresher and as Mr. Warful joined us as we start the process. Um there's there's really two paths that the state lays out to create a budget. Um one is where we opt out and we would talk about and we'll see the timing of that where we uh will decide uh you will decide that okay we're okay staying within the act one index. That seems to be enough room for us. Let's stay there. The second route is you go through a referendum process. you you put together a uh a preliminary budget and then you look to seek exceptions. So, we should find out at the
013end of September uh what our act one index is. So, we'll get that before we have to make the decision, but there's two processes. Uh for those of you, we've talked about it before, but the referendum uh is really pretty limited at this point. Uh originally the referendum was set out and had contingency is that if you had an old debt which everyone has refinanced at this point. Uh if you had rising special ed cost, so you had to look at an average of special a cost and it had to outpace uh what was happening. Um and then also the rise the rapidly rising peasers um contributions. Well, the rapidly rising peasers contributions is gone. The old debt is gone. And so really it's looking around how fast are your special ed costs escalating with
014regard to the the funding and and everyone else at that. So um so what have we looked at how what am I recommending uh that we look at again as we move forward as I mentioned the base index will come out at the beginning of September. Uh that will be what it is across the state. I do expect um because of our uh our aid ratio, I expect that we would get an adjusted index which should be slightly higher than what the statewide index is. Um a and really we would start to get into some preliminary budget discussion, look ahead as we enter in that November time frame. Um that way we've we've wrapped up last year. We're really getting some data what we're seeing in this year and start to talk about and start
015to get those discussions. Um as I mentioned earlier the board will need to make a decision that first December meeting that only December meeting as to are we going to opt out? Are we going to stay within that act one index um or are we going to go ahead and uh and look to seek exceptions. So fortunately we should know at the end of September and then have till the beginning of December to sort of make that decision. Um we move into January right so if we opt out we don't need that proposed preliminary budget. If we don't we do need to adopt that. Um and and one of the interesting things of this process because we haven't done this in a while. Um, in order to create a proposed preliminary budget, you have to
016demonstrate that you would need the exceptions. So, you have to make sure that there's enough expected expenditures to justify you going over the index. So, it always got a little complicated because people are like, well, I have a $5 million deficit. Well, you had to have that or else you couldn't get into justifying the exceptions and the process. Um, so the uh second meeting in January, we'll start to look at our quarterly updates. Where are we at in the current year? How does that start to fold into next year's bud budget discussions in February and and April? Again, another quarterly update. These are the big ones. But as you remember, we'll pick some topics depending on how we're going, what it's looking at as we're going through that. Um, again, this year, like last year,
017uh, we have more than 30 days between our second May meeting and our second June meeting. Um, so that will allow us to adopt that proposed final budget at the second May meeting. Um, do any uh updates in the first June meeting and then adopt the final budget, set the tax rate, farmstead homesteads, um, where that's working. There are times and depending on how the calendar starts to to lay out uh, last year it worked, this year it works. I didn't look future, but there are sometimes where you have to do the postfinal budget on the first meeting because you don't have the 30 days to get get that that requirement in there. So, that's sort of the where we're going. Um, I to have a couple slides sort of talking where we're at. Um,
018so right now, uh, I have up here I I show you what the state funding actually received in 2425. And so you can see those in the first column. Um, you can see in the next column really what we adopted, which was very similar to the governor's budget with regard to state funding. The third column is everything that we currently know. A lot, right? Um so we are fortunate that the formula that the governor has proposed with some of this ready to learn and adequacy funding we are one of the 330 or so districts that are benefiting from that formula. There's about a 100 districts that aren't benefiting. And right now, the cyber charter reimbursement isn't even being proposed. And depending on where some of the health and safety, those districts actually could lose money
019when this budget gets approved, even withhold harmless because the those other funds that were one-time funds went away. Um, I don't think that we'll be there, but as you can see, we know all the question marks right now. So laying out a little bit, what do we know? We know right now, right, if you read the paper, you watch the news, there are no state payments being made. And we'll look about what that means to Pen Matter. Um, basic education and special ed funding have to be at at least 24 25 levels, right? That's the hold harmless that we talk about. So no matter what the governor, the legislators do, they can't take that base away. Um so that's there. Uh there's although there's no codified requirement, um all parties have communicated that the base
020in the ready to learn from last year would stay the same would wouldn't drop below that base. Um I say that and I make the difference between two and three. There's code that doesn't allow him to drop the special ed and the basic ed. There's no law technically that doesn't allow him to drop ready to learn. Uh but all parties have communicated throughout the year that no that's that's a base and should grow from there. Mrs. Wart, did you have a question? >> Well, I was just thinking you said the BF and the go below, but they could pass a budget that would be lower just just hypothetically. >> Or is that law that they can't? I mean, not that they would ever do that. You never I'm just curious. >> They they would have
021to they would have to to adjust some of those add-ons like So, let's just take all the safety money away. So, it could be a lower all overall number, but it still has to be the same basic add special. >> Okay. All right. >> Which is why a lot of times you see those breakouts because there's no requirement for them to do the breakout the next year. And so if they put all that money into basic ed and special ed, then then they've they're they're sort of stuck. >> All right. >> Um at this point, as of last week, I think uh Dr. McFersonson for a second time submitted some of our federal uh fund grants and we were told that they were accepted. And so all federal funding appears to be coming at this
022point. Executive orders happen all the time. So, we'll see when we didn't get it yet. >> Yes. >> Do those federal funds pass through the state or do they come directly from to us? >> They the state they pass through the state, but the state can't >> the state can't hold them even though they were threatening to do that earlier. >> I guess if you find the right lawyer, you could try anything. But they're >> Okay. I just want to make I mean there was we received notification before that they were getting >> the stop before happened at the federal level. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> There was some cut offs on the on the title two and three. >> Three, right? >> Two and four. Two and four. >> Okay. >> I just want to
023make sure I knew understood how the money >> circles around the the merrygoround. >> What don't we know? Um, we have absolutely no idea and to Dr. Fton's point with the IU when any state funding is going to start to flow. So, there should have been depending and we'll look at this later. There should have been some funding coming at the end of July, at the end of August, right? Sort of. Some of it comes every month, some of it comes every two months. Um, but at this point, the July payments were not made. And, uh, my understanding was because nothing happened by Friday, no August payments will be made either. Um, we also have no idea when the budget will be approved and how long we might be in this scenario. uh everything that
024I've read and heard um neither side really has any interest in negotiating at this point and so they're just going to keep doing what they're doing. >> All three sides. >> What does the impact look? And so what I had to do is I had to go look at 2024 numbers because we don't know what the budget is to know what could be withheld. Um so I went back and said, "Well, what happened last year?" So if you'll take a look at it last year, um you can see that by the end of August, we had received about $4.14 million from the state. Okay. So I would anticipate with no payments through the end of August, that means that we will have been sitting on about 1 or $4.2 million. Interestingly enough, remember the budget
025was late last year. Um and so the October payments, all of the ready to learn came through. It all got paid in a single payment. And so that's also why I put the 2024 on there because we don't know what ready tolearn is next year. And so even in this scenario, you can see that by the end of October 2024, uh we had 11.44 million from the state. Um we'll see uh where where are we at and what that looks like. um just to talk about worst case scenario, right? I this would be incredibly impactful um and and would not be pretty if the state gave us the bare minimum of what they had to give us, we would be about $3.375 million less than what we have in the budget. Okay? You remember when
026we talked about the budget, we had made I recommended and you approved an extra $750,000 transfer to cap reserve um that we hadn't done previously. Hey, let's do that just in case we don't get that $750,000. So, that would go away. We would eliminate everything that you did to save towards the projects, right? All 2.115 million that you put aside for the projects would be gone. we would eliminate a transfer to capital reserve that we have done annually for the last number of years. Um and then we would start trying to figure out you know what does this look like as we go into 26 27 because if we don't get what we budgeted then we have a deficit that we're starting from um in this case could be a pretty significant deficit. So I
027I I tell you that in that yes it would be it would be impactful but I think one of the reassuring things is none of this is going to impact delivery of programs to students that will start next Monday right so we will be able to pay staff we will be able to have you know we we're not doing anything that's jeopardizing the current year operations it's the longer term that comes into play which is not the case at every district right now um as they start to look at those things. So to Dr. Fullerton's comment and Mr. is I did have and I probably will have a follow-up conversation with the CFO at the IU um because one of the suggestions that I made to her because we do have funding and we because
028of our tax base and that almost everyone takes advantage of 2% discount and will have paid 90 or more% of our taxes real estate taxes will be paid in the next two weeks. um we're in a pretty good spot from a cash flow. So I did talk to briefly and and I think at first she wasn't quite sure I was serious. Um, I did ask the IU, well, would you give us a discount on our payments if we paid you all now? And there, you know, rather than you paying interest to someone else, give there are a number of schools in our situation that rather than pay the penalty to float the bond, we're in a cash flow standpoint where we could potentially pay. Um, I probably asked for more of a discount than she
029really was wanting to consider. So maybe we'll have some follow-up conversations there. But but but that is a possibility. You know, it I think it makes sense from my perspective of us paying ahead and >> why not, >> right? >> So we'll see that. But we are fine um just because of the fact that we are so dependent on our local uh real estate taxes and the fact that we probably you know have one of the highest across the state of folks that pay in the discount period. So cash flow wise we're okay. And the other thing we we have, you saw an article, school district Lancaster, I think over the weekend. Um, >> you know, because we've built a reserve to try and get ready for these projects, there's nothing preventing us from paying
030bills and then paying that back when it comes out. The biggest impact is going to be is the interest that we're going to lose from, you know, not having the 11.5 million that we should have had at the end of October. >> Questions on the calendar or where we stand right now? Hey Dan, just maybe back to the IU point. Um, what's the impact to the IU if we paid early at a 2%. How did you get the 2%? What's the savings for us andor the negative impact the IU? >> Yeah. So, I I think it's just looking at what does how early do we pay? What is our potential interest losses that we would generate? So, if we're getting 4% annually and we're only paying a quarter early, you know, then if I could
031get one one and a half 2% discount, then that's far more than we're going to make on the interest in that time frame. Um, I don't know, having not having looked at what those loan terms look like that they're looking at, you know, what sort of interest they would have to pay on that advance >> and and I don't know the answer to this. What is our regular payment stream to the >> I it's about a quarterly type depending on the programming. It's about a quarterly four payments usually. >> It and the first one though is usually like 15%. So they're it's a shorter one and then two larger ones and then you reconcile with the last. >> And how much is our annual payment to the IU? >> Uh right around $6 million. Okay.
032Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Ford? >> Yeah. Do you budget goes out till January, February? >> We're okay. >> We're still okay. So, we're >> which is part of the good reason, right? So, we have the the $16 million in committed funds. we have the $7.5 million in uncommitted funds, right? So there, you know, that's one of the reasons and I think Mr. Swagger talked about it before and the the when they go and and do our um Sanders and Pors comes in and looks at it, you know, that's part of having those reserves um >> and being able to to work through those things. Any other questions? >> No questions. Just a comment or encouragement for my colleagues. Um, you know, Ms. Wart and Mr. Beaks and I and for a very
033long time, Mr. Jackson and I, um, go to advocacy day and meet with our legislators. And I will tell you that they are happy to meet with us. They're proud of the work that we do at Pen Manor. Um, and I think we have a good working relationship with our legislators. And so I would encourage you to reach out to whoever your legislators are and share with them the impact um that the budget will have on on the students at Pen Manor, on our staff um and our future projects. Um I think that they listen and they care what we have to say. And so, um, I've already been in contact with Senator Martin, um, and with some other legislators, and they're they're aware, but, you know, there's always, um, movement with numbers. And so,
034I would just encourage you to reach out to them. Um, and also to reach out to your federal legislators. Um, I have done that as well and received feedback. Um but I think you know we listen to some of us have listened to those PSBA um advocacy points and um you know they we've kind of been stuck on the same things over and over again. And my recommendation would be that we start to look at um advocating for the budget cycle and how it negatively impacts not only Penn Manor but other districts in the state. And you know, there's the Department of Health, for instance, um when the when the state doesn't pass a budget, contractors for the the Department of Health still get paid. They get paid at last year's rate until a new
035rate is approved and developed. Um and so my suggestion would be that we start advocating for that at the P groupoups. >> Um and saying there's no reason. We know at least for the basic funding and the special ed funding that we're going to get that. So why can't we get that July and August payment based upon last year's rate until they approve a new budget and at least it would give stability to our district to other districts and you know I think that's a place where Pen Manor can be a leader and so I would just encourage us um and in each of our spheres to start advocating for that um so that we don't continue to find ourselves in this spot. So if you have any questions I'd be more than glad to
036share with you my correspondence that I've had thus far. um and and we can go from there. But >> and consider advocating for a two-year budget instead of going through it every year. >> That'll never happen. No. >> But nothing wrong with nothing wrong with letting them >> I'd rather advocate for a separate education, >> right, >> budget. >> Yeah. >> But >> that is approved before June 30th. >> Yeah. I think there's many things we can ask for that would add stability to public education that are reasonable. >> Okay. I need a motion to place this the calendar on our September 2nd board voting agenda. >> Second. >> Thank you. And thank you. Any further comment or question? Fred, are you okay there? >> Yep. Yeah. >> Okay. Seeing none, all those in favor?
037>> Eight affirmative votes. Mr. Her. >> Yes. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> Thank you. We will move right into item two, board policies. >> So, we have a number of policies that take a few minutes to review that are being recommended by PSBA. Uh, and this is the first reading. So just to kind of give you context in each of the drafts that are in the folder here uh if you see something that is bold and bold print uh that are the those are the changes uh that are being proposed and then anywhere where there's brackets uh those are our options of what we can select as we write the final uh policy. So again this is the first read for all these policies as we look at what is taking place. uh just quickly
038review each one uh and then we would have a second read and then they would be enacted. And a lot of these uh the changes are minor changes. There's a couple new policies, but some of them are minor changes to align with some of the school code that was put into place uh with the budgets that have been passed in the last two years as safe schools have advanced and to work through not only the PCCD, which is the Pennsylvania Crimes Commission, uh but also the uh working with our state police or our local law enforcement agencies. So the first policy we have tonight is uh policy 234 which is for our pregnant or parenting or married students. Uh there is a lot that is bolded in this. Uh we have followed all of these
039uh recommendations in the past uh working with students who uh may be parenting a child. Uh really the big e uh the big emphasis here is that this does fall under title 9 and they would anything that would be an issue they would be working with our title 9 coordinator who is Courtney Coons our HR director. Uh the next policy is our hazing policy. uh this typically uh has been involved with this. What typic uh what what is being included in here is any along with the definition of hazing but harassment and then the involvement of local law enforcement uh and reporting in our safe schools reports policy 252 which is our date which is dating violence uh policy. This is a new policy and it outlines the district the stance that the district would
040take against dating violence where it's being defined as physical, sexual, verbal or an emotional abuse used to a uh controlling dating partner. And really this is it's I mean I don't want to be obvious but it is really to try to maintain a safe learning environment for our students and OB these these are actions that would take place in school but then anything like sort of like our cyber bullying if something happens outside of school and it carries into school then it would be something that we would uh as a school district be working with the students on. uh policy 317 is the conduct and disciplinary procedures for uh educators. Uh a big adjustment with this is that in the past 2 years there have been changes so that if there is a certified employee
041so teacher administrator someone that carries a certification if that certified educator has been charged and there is pending a record of arrest indictment or charge uh entered that gets uploaded into the teacher information management system which is our system for tracking certifications. I then do receive an immediate alert that charges are being brought to that person. So in in the policy the the employee has 72 hours to contact me but as soon as those charges that goes into the state system and then I receive notification of that. So 317 is is an including the changes that have taken place. Uh 317 educator misconduct. uh there is inclusion of the title 9 uh sexual harassment in regards to educators and what they are doing. Uh policy 320 which is the freedom of speech by employees. We
042know that as employees that there are we do have respect for their freedom of speech as private citizens on issues of public concern. But this clarifies that public school employees retain their freedom of speech rights even while employed by employed by the district but it does address situation where an employes expressions when not engaged in assigned duties might conflict with the district's interest and then how we could be involved how the district could have to take action in that case. Uh policy 336 uh is talking about paid unpaid I'm sorry is talking about leave personal necessity leave and that is uh changed because it removes the removes floating holidays. We do not use those. All of our holidays are designated. We designate those at the beginning of the year. And then uh employees, all employees
043do have personal time that they would use uh to take time off. Policy 339 gets into uncompensated leave. Uh you know, in terms of an employee who has who who is requesting time off but is unpaid, there's many different allocations for that. A new one that goes into effect here is someone who has been elected to a public office and as a a official in Pennsylvania uh they would be granted that leave for the first four years of their elected period of service. So for example, if a teacher were to run for office, they were elected into that office. They would be on unpaid leave for the term of their first four their first four years of office. So uh we would maintain that position for them. they would be entitled to a position if
044at the end of their term in office they would return. That's a full It's not a case where if they're on a school board even though you are full-time uh board members >> employees. Did you almost say >> I almost said employees and and we will give you a raise too. >> Thank you. >> Uh so it does allow that for that to happen with with the district. uh policy 626 and 621 uh have an impact on time that we would have for uh teachers or employees that are involved in federal programs. Uh the only situation that this would occur for us is with Dr. McFersonson uh who is our federal programs uh coordinator and each year she attends the state convention. So she would be entitled to submit for different levels of reimbursement for
045travel. Uh policy 807 uh this puts into effect I think what for what many schools have done but it does uh call for uh the recognition commemoration of uh the events that took place on September 11th. Uh and that h is to happen at the beginning of the day on that day if it is a school day or the day leading up to that. And then policy 8.24 maintaining professional boundaries. Uh it specifies in this and in some cases as m as best as we can what is considered as electronic communication. Uh any type of communication that is happening uh even though they still list pager. I don't know if they're still available be able to use but again any type of communication that happens electronically. And then policy 827 uh the conflict of interest.
046Uh in this you'll notice that it does state that there is a conflict of interest for anyone who is considered a federal employee. Uh so it cannot hold an office because of that uh in that in that uh status status. So those are the policies. Again, uh as you read through those each look for the bold or the areas where there is brackets that we would then select and again these are these are recommended by PSBA the majority of them even though we we have those in place uh there's tweaks or andor things that we had already been following. >> Any questions? >> Questions for Dr. Jeff? Sorry. >> Yeah. Uh I'm sorry. I uh was probably like a senior in May. Um could you go back to 320? Um the summary is basically um
047as long as it doesn't is that primarily when they're on school grounds like non >> it could be any situation. >> So on or off school grounds? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and really what it would be is if almost similar to what a student would happen, you know, if whatever they're doing participating in carries over into the school and there is a disruption that is caused um then we could we could take action. >> Okay. So just um teacher goes to some sort of protest. >> Mhm. um come back, do their normal day, but someone else is offended by it. Is that going to where would that fall within disruption of >> Not sure. I think that's that's what we would have to look into and and really get a read. I I'm reading
048this as if something that they're doing and it it is detrimental to, you know, let's say, you know, they do something that's well known and then, you know, students would not go into that classroom or, you know, something like that. Could could we would it be appropriate for this one to have Jeff Litz kind of give us >> any type I mean any type of situation obviously as as we once we would run into it we would be working with him but I I mean I can certainly ask for his opinion on it and his discretion. >> Yeah. It'd be interesting just to see what his read is on. The last thing I want to do is have a employee not attend something and another employee or you know student is going to affect that
049person's right outside the school >> and they do nothing other than just attend. >> Right. >> I think it would probably have to carry over in a greater sense than that. >> Yeah. Okay. That's my interpretation, but >> I >> But you're saying to get some kind of parameters. >> I think some guidance would be helpful. >> I think guidance I I would like to really >> cuz you know, again, I don't want a teacher not to express their first amendment freedom, you know, to do something if someone here can not agree with it and create issues. I mean, that's >> and I can last thing I'd want to have happen. You can go back and look at the guidance that we received from PSBA as well. >> Okay. Yeah. So, there's guidance from them
050too as well. Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. It's a good question. >> Any other questions? >> Let's hope we don't have to answer that. >> Hope we don't have to answer it. >> That would be that would be great if we don't. >> If no other questions, may I have a motion to place this on our September 2nd board voting agenda? >> So, move. >> Thank you. Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes, Mr. Her? >> Yes. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> Anything else uh for the good of the committee of the whole? If not, I will adjourn the committee of the whole and call to order the Monday, August 18th, Penman School Board Director School Board meeting.
051If you'll please join me in a moment of silence in the flag seat. >> Thank you. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The next scheduled meeting of the Pen Manor School Board will be held on Tuesday, September 2nd, 2025, following the committee of the whole meeting. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel detailed on the committee of the whole agenda. Mrs. Rhodess, may we have a roll call, please? >> Sure. Mr. Beige, >> here. Mr. Her >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo >> here. >> Mr. Stro >> here. >> Mr. Swigert >> here. >> Mr. Warfl >> here.
052>> Miss Wart >> here. >> Mrs. Napiger >> here. Dr. Fullerton >> here. >> Nine board members present. >> Thank you, Mrs. Rhodess. At each of our board meetings, we offer our citizens two opportunities to make comments. We have arrived at that first opportunity which will pertain to items on the board voting agenda only. Do we have any citizens comments this evening? Okay. May I have a motion to approve the minutes of our board voting agenda from August 4th? >> So move. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? Eight affirmative votes. Mr. Her. >> Yes. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> Thank you, Dr. Gail. >> Thank you, Dr. Forson. Uh, so I'd like to thank our board directors who were able to attend
053our district opening day today. Uh, it was a great beginning to our new school year. Uh, just to see our teachers return, our employees all in one place. Uh, we celebrated and, uh, you could definitely tell the excitement was there. the energy with level was high. Uh and it's really it's that time of year it's nice to have a slow June, slow July, but you know in August we're ready to get going and today definitely was that. I do want to thank the uh entire school board for continuing to recognize uh our employees who reach milestone years in the district 20 25 30 35 in this case we even celebrated 40 someone who's been employed 40 years Marie Duke at central manner >> 39.99999 she's 40 don't confuse us >> they already did that one
05425 you know >> 25 comes before 20 comes new math. >> New math. >> Uh, but then we also were able to hear from our employee of the year, uh, Jen Roar, secretary at Manor, and then our educators of the year, Mary Snyder, retired first grade teacher at PCO, and Mary did come back, uh, which was great to see her. And then also Kurt Ellis, uh, learning sport teacher at Manor. Uh, and and for all of us, I think it was a great reminder of the level of commitment that we have amongst our staff that we have folks that are 20, 25, 30, 40 years. Uh and it also I think it it serves as an inspiration to our new employees you know as we continue to bring in new employees that demonstrates to them
055this is what is a core of Pemman school district. Uh so thank you for providing that opportunity and I did receive some uh remarks from uh some of our retirees uh as the year ended and I I uh I was a miss for not sharing this with the board. They did appreciate coming to a board meeting and being recognized and uh having that moment where they were able to be with with you all and to receive your congratulations and the special time that was. So I think we'll give it a shot again one more time uh before we make any other significant changes. Uh but we'll help Mr. Ford and know 20 comes for 425 years next year. So >> hey, at least he gave out the right gifts this year. >> He did. I
056did. >> True. >> I did. I didn't have that kind of problem. But >> it was great. Really appreciate uh those of you who were able to be here. And obviously those who weren't, we completely understand. Uh and then as the morning continued on, I was able to share uh with the staff uh our vision mission. Uh and then our theme, which is a reminder, draws us back to our vision and mission uh this year is make it happen. Uh it seems like it's a simple phrase, but really uh this is a call to action uh for us to take a risk, address a glaring need that we see. Uh you know, get messy, get get involved, uh invest in someone to show that we do care. Uh and also just to stop watching and
057do it really is a call to do. And as a district administrative team, as we discussed this starting in April, we moved into May and then June. Uh we identified three what we're referring to as its three its three things that we are going to make it happen with. Uh and number one it does align very closely to one of my superintendent goals is to improve student attendance and we recognize the importance of students being in school. And uh we know that there are in some cases there are certain reasons that students aren't here. Some of them are out of control out of their control. Uh but we also know that when a student is in school, that's when our teachers are able to do things with them. So, we're going to start taking a
058look at this and we're going to start at the very lowest level where we look at what are our practices, when do we send certain letters out notifying parents, moving through what's the next step, what's the next step, what's the next step, and then turning to our teachers to really think about how is it that as a classroom teacher or even our employees, uh, I shared that, you know, this past year, uh, we had members of our buildings and grounds staff working with two students. We had our cafeteria staff at the high school working with a student to help them in their career development. How can we tie in some of those things that really do pull those students who will need their attendance to be improved across the district? Uh the second it really
059identified is that we will build greater connections with our community. Uh as our mission states that we will work collaboratively with our community to help our students identify their academic and life goals. uh and we provide the academic needs for our community. We we fulfill those needs. And in order to do this, we need to partner our students with our parents, our community members, our businesses, organizations. I think Mrs. Bouter brought that up earlier tonight. You know, what are some of those companies, organizations that we are developing partnerships with? We're work certainly working towards that and that it serves not only our students but also our community as well. And then the third it that we've identified is the consistency across the district. Uh it's interesting. You know, we think of Pen Manor as a
060as a close group, close community, which we are, but we're also a big community. We're a big district. Uh anytime that we have seven seven school elementary schools, two middle schools, and then some of our high school departments are almost as big as a entire uh elementary faculty. you know, how's consistent consistency happening across the across the board? So, if a student is in first grade at any of our school, what are the consistent measures, but yet also knowing that there's autonomy at each of those buildings so that they can address those needs that they need to. So, we'll continue to work on that in terms of curricula, in terms of supports that we provide them, activities and functions that we have. uh but really uh you know how do we develop that consistency so
061that as a as an entire district we're moving through uh everything that that we're talking about. Uh so those are our three its at a district level and what we've encouraged this to happen uh to take place at the at each of the levels elementary and secondary and then tomorrow our principles will be leading their buildings and talking about these but then anything that would be happening at each of those buildings like what's a specific it that they want to work on as a building and then challenging our teachers as well as our administrators what are those personal its how how am I as an individual going to make things happened and I shared today and uh one of my its is to be more intentional with my time. Um you know, one of the
062things that uh really is an emphasis for me this coming year is that I spend Tuesday afternoons or or a good part of Tuesday afternoon uh in the classroom. So picking a school and and spending time there. That means I don't have Tuesday afternoon to do meetings or other things. So I need to be more intentional in the other four and a half days so to say but you know being intentional so that we are that I am working in ways that uh really do address those and and I've encouraged all of our principles all of our administrators to have an it personally it's not evaluative but to see them grow and become a better uh leader. So that that's uh where we're going now. Thanks to Dr. Cox and our learning facilitators, our supervisors.
063A lot of our professional learning that's happened last week and will continue through this week has led up to that and is helping teachers and and and uh our support even our supporting staff to get ready for that. uh you know and the nice thing is I think I mentioned this last time is that uh very appreciative of that all but one of our professional learning uh events or sessions was led by people within our district and the only one was for our virtual school and I forget what it's called now >> imagine learning so >> renamed rebrand >> used to the ingenuity. I have to stop and think about it all the time cuz we call it ingenuity for years. >> But the nice thing is we have people who are committed to that
064and and leading this and leading that and it doesn't just happen one day. It continues throughout the year. I also do want to just mention um we're very appreciative of the efforts of Mr. McCloon and and his staff. Uh Melanie Drenin almost forgot. Uh as they've worked hard to get the bus driver the bus routes out. They had the training for uh the bus drivers last week uh for Eshbach and and uh Schultz. So very appreciative of that. Be nice if the bridge on 741 was finished. We're going to figure that out as it goes here. Uh but then today also Mrs. Coons and the HR department uh led our support staff through required training as well. So >> all this is bring that all together just to say that you know our g again
065our theme for the year and the way that we're casting and talking about our vision and mission is make it happen. So all in all uh you know long day but at the same time while I'm tired probably because I've talked to more people today than I have all summer um you know it was a very rewarding and energizing day. So and then my final thing and I think Mr. Snaper, you mentioned this is that the kickoff classic is Wednesday. Uh there are food trucks available at 6:00 and then the program starts at 7:30 where we'll celebrate our marching band, our cheerleaders, and then our fall sports teams that take place at Comet Field. >> Okay, >> we're underway. Dr. Fullerton, off and running. >> Any questions for Dr. G? >> Yes, I have one
066concerning the consistency. Correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't for example if a student were to move from Hamre to C uh sent manor senior moments we're having central >> aren't wouldn't you be in the same chapter in the math book >> yeah that's our goal >> so we do have we do have that consistency in that realm correct >> yes and it goes into the curricula but also some of the services and some of the activities that we do have students >> uh yeah and and we don't want to have you know understanding that each of our buildings is different and and there's slight nuances, but really when we get to the core of things, those core things, our curricula and and you know, the the learning that our students takes h or students are
067involved in has to be consistent and that's really what we're driving for, >> especially with kids moving from area to area so that they can plug right in. >> Yeah. I thought we worked on that a few years back. So when you said that, I thought, gee, I hope that didn't change. >> No. >> Yeah. I think in in that sense it's a re-emphasis like to really emphasize that and I think it's important as you mentioned you know the transient nature of students >> right >> today uh both within and without you know from from out to into the district >> right into the district yeah >> I thought the opening activities um were nothing short of phenomenal energy was amazing today uh And you know, my challenge to the administrative team because you know
068that that last and it'll last for a couple of weeks and then we'll get to the middle of September and we fall into the same old trap that we've done year after year after year and just go about the normal routine. you know, play the music, encourage the dancing, and encourage the smiles and the hugs that uh you couldn't miss today from when they saw each other. And that's the hard part about education, right? We talk about all the AI and everything else that goes along with it and what we're doing and we forget to be humans and we forget that we're teaching humans. and uh you all create that atmosphere and so I tip my hat to you for your planning, your preparation and um just an absolutely um inspirational start to the day.
069It also uh helped that Sarah said that I was the Joe Fullerton today. So we will never forget that. >> Sorry. The Dr. Fullerton. >> The the Dr. Fullerton. >> Well, >> that's a true story. You can ask her. >> Expects us to call him the I'm not coming. >> The same conversation I had with my kids. I'm like, you can call me Dr. Dad now. And they're like, we're not calling you that. Well, let's go through our voting agenda or our school board agenda. Item 2 A. Comments or questions? >> Item three, A through H. >> Dr. F, I'll have to uh pull uh 3G. >> 3G. Okay. >> 3G. We we can't just say like for Mr. Straw, he can vote yes to everything, but we have to pull it. >> He has
070a conflict. >> Yeah, I know he has a conflict for >> Yeah. So, he has from Yeah. Okay. Any comments or questions? And item four, A through M. Okay, seeing none, may I have a motion to approve item 2 A move. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor. >> Eight affirmative votes. Mr. Herb. >> Yes. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> May I have a motion for item 3G? So moved. >> Second. >> Thank you. Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor. >> Seven affirmative votes. Mr. Herur. >> Yes. >> Eight affirmative votes >> and abstensions. >> Abstension. >> And one abstension. >> Thank you. May I have a motion to approve item 3 A through F and H?
071>> So move. >> Thank you. A second. Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mr. Herd. >> Yes. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> And may I have a motion to approve item 4 A through M. >> Thank you. >> You can pick the other one for the second. >> We got to make it official. I've already messed up one. >> Very good at splitting those to first and second. >> Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mr. Her, >> yes. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> And we have arrived at the second opportunity for citizens comments. And these could be any comments district related. Do we have any comments this evening? Okay. Seeing none, I'd like to remind everybody
072that our next meeting is on Tuesday, September 2nd. Um, enjoy the last few weeks of August and Labor Day. I will adjourn the meeting. Sure. >> I was hoping to talk about something. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Uh, Dr. Gail and Dr. or Mr. Did Raymond James reach out to you guys after our last meeting to discuss professional fees for upcoming bond issues? >> Not at this point yet. No. >> Yeah. I was hoping to bring that up at the board level. Um, you know, a lot of people don't understand when you issue bonds how various professionals are paid. And I was getting into it a little bit at our last meeting. Um, and I would like to maybe take a straw poll or just direct the administration to work with our existing
073partners to solidify what those fees are going to look like for our upcoming bond issues. Um, at the $8.75 per bond that has been the historic Raymond James fee, that is on the high end. Um when you look at similar type of bond issues in central PA here amongst our peers um you know that's going to be over $1.1 million of spend over the next few years at you know if we do $125 million worth of of bonds. And so I won't be on the board when all this gets issued but I would like to help the board wrangle in some of those professional fees. um as sort of a parting gift if if we can do that. Uh, so I don't know what that looks like, if we need to give the administration a
074couple weeks to reach out or if we can take a straw poll or just give some sort of informal direction, but I would like to try to um start taking a look at those and, you know, I can take it away as a takeaway from for myself too to provide the board with some additional information on um some uh bond sales that have happened here locally um and what their fees have been like, as I mentioned last week at our meeting, Hempfield did a bond issue within the last couple weeks, their bond discount was $750. Um, I didn't bring it up uh at the last meeting, but there was a central bucks deal. Their bond discount was $6 a bond uh recently that Raymond James did, and there were um a few bonds uh bond
075sales that were actually even lower than that. So, you know, when you think about that in the context of the projects that we have coming up, it is a significant number. And if we can uh save that money, I think it would go a long way demonstrating to the community that yes, projects need to happen and you know, we want to build these spaces for our students, but we also want to be mindful of costs and fees associated with those projects. I do have a question about I mean Lauren in Miss indicated that those districts also used a financial adviser. So I'm assuming that in addition to that 770 you said or six whatever the other ones that then they also had to pay their financial adviser a fee. Is that the com I would
076assume that's the common practice. So that that number isn't their end cost. Is that can you speak to that? Like do you know >> the bond discount with the underwriter is all negotiation. You can have a bond discount that is lower than 875 without bringing in a financial adviser. >> Okay. >> Um she did indicate that you know which I thought was um a little interesting that they would give us a lower bond discount if you know we brought in a fiduciary uh to act on the district's behalf. So that is something that you know this board could consider in the future. But the bond discount is negotiated directly between the district and the underwriter. Typically what happens is they'll conduct the bond sale and then >> No, I know how that works, but I'm
077I'm curious. >> No, I'm saying that they don't no one ever shows you what the fees are during presentations like this and so I'm trying to get that >> brought up ahead of time so that way we get >> and I have no problem ne like going back to Raymond James and saying, "Hey, can we get a better deal?" I think that was is due diligence and we should do that. But my question is in the in the examples you gave, are you aware if those districts then had to pay an additional fee to the financial adviser? Because like I I I understand how the bond negotiation works, but I'm assuming that that financial adviser didn't work with them for free. >> No. Um the financial adviser wouldn't provide their services for free, >> right?
078Um, but if you think about the situation where, you know, Central Bucks was at $6 a bond, right? >> Even if they did have an FA and if Hefield was at 750 a bond and they had an FA, you can still see that those fees are negotiable, >> right? >> Because if you think the FA is going to charge about the same price per issuance, you can still see that there's a$150 variability within the fees that the other charging. >> Fair enough. And there are, you know, there are many underwriters out there. Um, and so, uh, yeah, it's it's a competitive market. If if the administration and the board wants to, you know, look at and see how we can save the district some money. >> Would you agree as she pointed out that if
079you if you pay them a lower fee that that those going out for the monies aren't going to work as hard for you? that work harder for those that are paying the higher amount and in the end you don't really come out ahead. >> I haven't seen that. Um, I think you know, you pay people commission to do a good job for you, but like I said, like I've said, 875 is on the higher end. And, um, there's plenty of demand out there in the market for municipal securities. And so, you know, while you do want to incentivize uh sales professionals to to do their job, there is a lot of demand out there for for bonds and um the bonds will be sold. >> And how does um since you did some research on
080this, how does Central Bucks and uh Hempfield's budget and loans and all that compare to ours? Are they significantly higher that you know that would be you know that you know like if their bond issuance is 200 million it that a lower rate is going to compensate for our 130 million that >> um I'm not totally tracking but you know Humpfield's a very similar school district similar credit rating um you know they're doing projects um as well over there So >> right my my question is if the Enfield borrowing 2 million versus our 130 >> that would also volume would be also >> comparable to what our 875 is. >> I think I'm building far like a couple hundred million. >> We're doing build projects over there too. Would a bigger project lead to a
081lower rate on occasion or or shouldn't that >> Yeah, it could be a factor. >> Yeah. >> Um, and has there been if you've noticed any change since Raymond James as opposed to RBC? Has that resulted in any? >> When I looked at the previous three or four issues that we did, it was all 875. So that was over the course of um you know that transition that they had a couple years ago. So I didn't notice any any difference you know that was all over. >> So just maybe help clarify this. Um I'm kind of agree with Miss Nassinger. I don't have a strong objection to trying to negotiate a lower cost with Raymond James. But the second topic is a change in strategy to use a financial advisor. Could you bring back to
082the board maybe um a sample of the size of the issuances, what financial advisor might have been involved and uh if they're using different terms on the amortization. I mean, we're I'm assuming that our districts are also staggering their debt repayment like we are with wraparound debt and putting on the principle at the end. Are these other bonds similar because that may affect, you know, marketability? I I don't know. Can you give us a little context around um those details? I can provide some information so that way you can do the analysis and look into that. I can also do a little bit on my own. Um, I I'm in a little bit of a busy season of life, so I can't I you know, I'm not going to commit to anything too detailed right
083now, but um, you know, some that does come into play. But I think what my point is is that, you know, if we can save some on the bond discount, that will save us on professional fees, which otherwise go unnoticed or untalked about. And if we can um, you know, We we quabble and and have heartache when we pass a budget over a new position sometimes that cost us $80,000 a year. I'm trying to save us possibly, you know, five times that, you know, over the course of the next couple years. Um, and I think >> well maybe I'm not understanding and I don't want to bel labor this for the >> the group but if we're paying 875 and suppose we got the rate to half that. >> Mhm. You're talking about a million
084one over 5 years and that's roughly 220 a year. Cutting that in half is about 110,000 a year. I I think it's it's hard to um get into a debate about switching the way that the district has done business without without myself understanding how much additional work that's going to be for Mr. Fory and the rest of the admin what the cost of the financial advisor is going to be. It does kind of feel like we're getting into >> No, I'm not asking us to I'm not asking us to switch anything. I'm what I'm trying to do is just educate the board that these things are a negotiation and typically what will happen is there's a bond sale that happens and then they'll bring so we'll bring papers for the administration and the board president
085to sign which will have details of the bond sale and we'll and the district what was the request for the straw poll for >> just to I think if I heard you correctly to have Dr. Gail Mr. before he talked to Raymond James about, you know, lowering that 875. Is that Did I hear you correctly? >> Yeah. When Lauren was here last week, I asked if we could sharpen our pencil a little bit knowing that we're going to be issuing, you know, 125 million in debt over the next 5 years. Um, and to save the district some money that way. >> And if the rest of the board would would like to, I I would like to do a straw poll to see if we can direct the administration to engage with them to see
086if we can bring that down a little bit. >> And do we do that just tomorrow or is that something that happens a few months down the road? >> I I mean I don't know. I don't know what the benefit of it would be. I mean >> tomorrow's point. Right. So what we had laid out last time I don't think we're looking at borrowing any money until >> June of 26. Right. >> Right. Um, so there's no urgency that has to be tonight, but you know, if you want us to have discussions, we can start to have discussions and see what that that looks like. >> So, does everybody have enough information to answer a straw poll question of directing the administration to begin those conversations, negotiations if you will, about lowering that the bond
087issue? Are we bringing Raymond James in sometime in January or so to kind >> I think we had talked about February January late January beginning February >> January February >> I I'm totally fine with negotiating I want to just make sure that the board and the admin are working with apples to apples comparisons when we're talking about that. So understanding that if other other districts negotiated a lower rate, but they did so because they were paying somebody else to do part of the work, we would need to take that number into consideration and have that information. So I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water, I guess, is where I'm going with this. >> We're not taking action on that. >> It's just it's a matter of just asking the question.
088But I I agree. Right. With what you're saying, >> I just want to make sure that we're >> there really isn't there really isn't any more work that the that the underwriter does even when a FA is brought in. The FA will work on the behalf of the school district um and give them independent advice. But in terms of what the underwriter does, all those motions stay the same, >> which I understand, but they negotiated a lower rate and then got paid. So I my question would be how much money did the those districts actually save? And so what I don't want to do is we say oh Raymond James is only going to give us a 25 a 25cent discount the heck with them because they gave some another district a 95 cent discount
089but that district had to pay that 90 cents to an FA which I don't know those numbers. Those are all hypotheticals but I think we need to keep that >> in mind as we're moving forward in this process. But I 100% agree with you, Mitchell, that it is our due diligence to negotiate that fe. >> Yeah. I just want to make one thing really clear. I don't think a lower I think having a lower fee and having a lower fee with an FA are mutually exclusive, >> right? >> Um and so I'm not advocating to bring in an FA. >> Okay? >> I'm simply saying that we can have our cake and eat it too. We can have a lower fee and maintain the existing process. Okay, fair enough. >> Mr. Beaks. >> No, I
090had to kind of piggy back on what said. I, you know, I understand other school districts have gotten lower rates and I, hey, if we can get a lower rate, fantastic. But again, that apples to apples comparison, you know, what was the size of the project cuz that, you know, all volume also affects that as well. There's just a whole lot of variables that, you know, you need to take into consideration. But I, if we can get a lower rate, fantastic. Let's go for it. Okay. So, you're a Yes. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Right. >> And I apologize, Mitchell. I usually ask if there's anything else good for the board and I just change it up. >> I just went, you know, I was excited. It was 8:00 and I'm like, "No, >> it's
0918:00." But no, that Thank you for bringing that up. It's a very good point. He brought it up uh last week and you know it doesn't hurt 100% of the questions you don't ask or no. So >> So with that, anything else for the good of the board? >> Did we Did we vote a straw poll? >> Oh yeah, Fred. I forgot you're there, Fred. What do you What do you think, Fred? >> I I'm all for it. I mean, we're we're if we don't try, don't ask. We're certainly not going to get any any discounts. And uh >> yeah, I got to say I wasn't thrilled when she said that if we didn't pay him as much said something to the effect of that they might not try as hard. >> Sales people >>
092I mean they're paid on commission so >> right. >> Okay. But anyway, I'm I'm with Mitchell. >> Okay. Sorry Fred. I completely forgot you. We all did Fred. I'm not taking all the for that one. >> Fred. He did. >> I heard that. You just forgot to respond, I guess. >> Right. With that being said, good night everybody. [Music]