001Welcome to the Tuesday, April 22nd, 2025 meeting, regular business meeting of the Rner Township School District. Uh please join stand and join us for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Uh the next item on the agenda this evening is the report on executive sessions. I can report that the board met this evening in executive session on April 22nd, 2025 to discuss property tax settlements, contract negotiations with our maintenance group, a legal matter uh involving a former student, and a legal matter involving a former employee. The next item on the agenda is always the most fun. We're going to do our uh report from students.
002Uh I Martina, do you mind if we start with the elementary school students since he's here? Okay. Thank you. Um we actually have a special guest. We have a wonderful high school student who joins us every month, but um we've started cycling in some special guests from our other schools. So this evening we are welcoming um Hud Alabrai from our Rner Elementary School. Welcome Hud. Come on up to the front. Now, make sure the there should be a light on the microphone, I think. Make sure there's like just speak. So, make sure we hear you. Uh, hello. Perfect. Thank you. Do I start? Hello. My name is Hodella Browy and I am a fifth grader at Radner Elementary School. I am thrilled to be here tonight to share the exciting things happening at res. Raner
003is a very special place and I am excited to tell you why. Our kindergarten students have been studying plants and science. They have had a lot of fun watching their mother's gift day gifts grow in the sun. These started from a seed. They have been pl busy planning a six-day countdown to summer. They will close out kindergarten with the popsicle party. Our first graders had an assembly where they learned all about the life of Betsy Ross on May 15th. They will be going on a field trip to the Camden Aquarium. They will have fun learning all about the marine life. And in just a few short weeks, they will begin their ABC countdown where they have a different theme each day that takes them right to the right up to the end of of school.
004Our second graders have been really busy as well. Second grade also participated in an all grade assembly called rhythmmetrics which combines music, mindfulness, and movement to help regulate our nervous system. Sounds like fun. In science, they study different types of soil compo composting and plants. In math, the second graders are learning strate strategies to add and subtract three-digit numbers. In April, they spent time focusing on the vivid language of poetry as we celebrate National Poetry Month. They are really looking forward to field day. The third grade the third grade students had a nice field trip to the Rner Historical S society. They had a fant fantastic day learning about the history around our community. They are able to see a real Konos Stoga wagon on other Victorian style clothes and decor. They are very much
005looking forward to to walk through Wayne. It is always an exciting trip connecting to our history and economics economics curriculum and is it and a great way to build community in science. They explored plant growth and development with the traditional creation of bees. In January, they welcomed a pel palentologist. He came with Mr. Nixon, which was a trico tricerupus fossil. The students had hands-on experience with the mock dig. They were able to find different rocks, minerals, and fossils. In fourth grade, the students have started to rehearse for their co chorus concert which will be held in June. This is always a fun way to end our school year. In math, they are learning about decimal concepts, measuring, measurement, and geometry. The students will soon be traveling to each region of the United States to learn
006about the geography, history, and economics. I remember doing this in Miss Kelly's class. I learned so much about the northeast region of the United States. There have been exciting things happening in fifth grade this year. In ELA, we are reading a novel, Espironza Rising. In math, we have been working through solving fractions and challenging world word problems. We are now into geometry and algebra thinking. In science, we have been using microscopes. We observed microorganisms and also learned about buoyancy and determined what makes an object object float or sink. We also had a field trip to flux base where we worked on STEM projects. In just a few short a few weeks we are setting off for campadensis. We are really excited to meet new friends from the other elementary schools. Every year before spring break,
007the school celebrates pineapple day where we all take the pineapple pledge as a reminder to be kind, including others, and help anyone who needs it. It feels great to make a difference together. I think it is safe to say that everyone enjoyed pineapple day. It was so much fun watching the cereal box challenge and the domino effect created by the hundreds of boxes collected. RES almost collected almost 1,000 cereal boxes to donate to the Wayne food pantry. In physical education, students are wrapping up our muchloved wacky track unit. A long-standing tradition at res. The experience blend movement and fun with skill buildings and students have loved teaming up with their wellness classes for extra time with peers. Beyond the fun, activities like hanging hanging on the parallel bars help build core strength that supports stamina
008for academic tasks such as sustained writing. Ideas is gearing up for our annual STEM fair happening on May 28th in collaborating with our amazing PTO. We're thrilled to we're thrilled to h welcome Ryan High School students who will provide inspiration and hands-on support, especially for students who might be more hesitant to dive into STEM. A special thank you to Dominic Elliot President RHS chemistry club for his leadership. Mrs. Dean and our students artists are preparing for Earth Day with a special project be inspired winchimes. This ties into the current third grade art unit and honors our identity as a green school. Each year the community contributes to the soundsscapes of Earth Day by creating beautiful winchimes. and we can't wait for the students to arrive on April 22nd to the gentle music of their creations.
009Teachers are were also invited to create their very own B winch time. We're thrilled by families to our beloved museum night on Wednesday, May 1st. The halls of res will be transformed into a galaxy showcasing the incredible artwork of our students. It's a be It's a beautiful celebration of creativity and we hope to see you there as we honor our young artists. April is National Poetry Month and students have been diving into rhythm, rhyme, and rich language in the library. We're also looking forward to a special author visit at the end of the month. Mrs. Pada is preparing students to find joy in reading beyond this school year. With May focused on building excitement around summer leisure reading, our fifth grade musicians are hitting all the right notes. Several students will perform at the at
010Rder Middle School in the combined chorus and string concert. And if you had the opportunity to perform at the our logestive breakfast, an incredible honor and we're still beaming from the success of for of this year's musical Annie. We're already looking ahead with excitement about our fourth and fifth grade concerts. As I previously said stated, uh, RES is an amazing school filled with so many exciting events and opportunities. I have enjoyed every minute of my time here and will truly miss it when my family turns returns to Oman in June. Re is a very special place and I am so lucky to have been a part of this school community. Thank you. Thank you. H that the the res um reports are always one of my favorites because my children went through that school. So,
011and I remember a lot of those events. Thank you very much for coming this evening. Thank you. We have a certificate for him that I think Mrs. um Brennan is going to give you. If you stay after, I think she'll get a picture with you and your parents outside. Um and next we have Martina. Oh, I always get your name. Baseril. Yes, right. Good job. Welcome, Martina. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. I hope you're all doing well. Throughout the month of April, we had lots of celebrations. Let's start with the French trip. Our RHS French students had the chance to journey into France over spring break. They explored Aignon, marveled at iconic Parisian landmarks, and stepped into prehistoric times at the Lazul Caves. They definitely came back with more than just souvenirs. They brought back
012memories and cultural experiences. Meanwhile, RHS German students weren't traveling, but they were absolutely dominating the national German exam, taking home 20 medals. On a similar note, RHS Latin students also dominated the National Latin exam. Switching gears to sports, boys tennis had their annual senior night on April 9th, honoring and congratulating the senior athletes. Moreover, junior tennis player Max Spillerman qualified for the PIAA district championships. Still in the realm of sports, the girls ice hockey team, who are now officially four pete champs of the mainline cup. With a big win over Lower Marian, they brought it home once again. That's grit, teamwork, and a whole lot of RNER pride on the ice. Over in the world of academics and businesses, RNER FBLA had an amazing showing with eight students placing in the top 10 and not
013one but two first place finishes. On the topic of achievements, let's take a moment to thank the amazing partnership between Giant Food Stores and their Feeding School Kids program. Since 2021, this initiative has raised over $7.5 million to help families in need. And just recently, Radner received a $7,160 check from the St. David's Giant. A huge thank you to their team and to every single community member who rounded up at the registry and those small acts that made a huge difference. Moving on to the club side of Ragner, I want to give a huge thank you to you all who donated to the Latinx club Alamo donation drive. Thanks to your generosity, we collected more items than we even expected. All of the donations went directly to supporting underprivileges Latino families in our communities and
014your contributions truly made a difference. And last, but surely not least, HiQ had their banquet to close off their amazing season. So whether we're immersing ourselves in the French language, scoring goals, acing national exams, or giving back to the community, Bratner students are showing up, shining bright, and making us proud every single day. So I thank you all and hope you have a great evening. Thank you. Thank you very much, Martina. Okay, next item on the agenda is the report from our superintendent. Follow that. Yeah. Good evening. Uh I I won't be able to follow that. Our students did a great job. So it's always great to hear all the wonderful things happening in our buildings at different levels as well. Uh very quickly tonight for my remarks, I just want to share first off,
015congratulations to our uh business manager, Brian Pauling. Uh Brian, you know, just received an additional certification that he didn't even need to go after, but uh he continues to go above and beyond. and I'm going to be in trouble for doing this, but I just wanted to recognize you for all that you do and it'll make up for when we have to discuss the budget later though, Brian. So, but congratulations, Mr. Pauling, for all that you do for the district. Um, and then I just want to mention to our community and to our school board, we had a chance at the facilities meeting to briefly look at this as part of our um project, our accessibility project at the high school. One of the final phases to that project was um looking at identifying and
016recognizing all our different um athletic accomplishments um throughout the district and spec specifically actually at the high school those athletic accomplishments and then placing those uh in areas around our our our building uh inside the building in the gym outdoor by the track on the gates. Uh and it's really I just want to thank the high school administration, our athletic department, our communications department, um help support from the district office, uh and the operations department for making that happen. It really has transformed the campus even more and it's just wonderful to see. And then I just want to also mention we had a great opportunity recently. Um and I want to thank our transportation department. Our transportation department is really pretty amazing. Uh besides transporting our kids and running three bus runs uh every day,
017um we have mechanics on site. They do all the work on our buses on site. There's a lot of districts that have to ship out um that type of work or contract that out. We have that work done on site. Many school districts come to our transportation department to certify their drivers. The tests uh in order to become a driver. Our uh transportation department handles that for other districts as well. will come and and and do the the certification and testing in our transportation department. And we had some students who recently asked they wanted to learn more and I want to thank the high school administration and our teachers for setting that up. I was lucky enough to be able to join them and they got an exciting tour of not only uh how the
018bus runs work, how they set up the routes, uh how they coordinate, uh but also was a lot of details about what it takes to keep a bus up and running, all the requirements. Uh our students asked a lot of tough questions. There's a lot of things that I wasn't aware of. Uh, and I feel like I've been paying attention with the transportation department. Uh, but you know, how many miles does a a tire last and and what does it take to change those things? So, it was really a great opportunity and I want to thank our our our transportation department. And I also want to just do a little challenge to the rest of our administrative team that, you know, we are in many ways a, you know, a small business. You know, we
019have a transportation department, we have a business office, we have a technology department. uh we've tried to start offering more opportunities for some of our students to maybe intern or opportunities for them to learn more about those departments. So, uh this is one step towards trying to open up and give those opportunities for our students as we move forward. But it was a great day. And then moving on just quickly, upcoming events. This is the time of year where things just move very quickly. Uh that end of the year is around the corner. Uh spring break is behind us now. And you can see from this list, there's a lot of exciting things happen. And that concludes my comments for this evening. Thank you, Dr. Bachelor. Uh, next we come to another fun part of
020our evening when we get to recognize students um for the great things that they're doing. Um, and the first item on the agenda is the RHS varsity girls basketball district champions. I think Miss Rosen Bloom and uh Mr. Thornton were going to um present these awards. We're actually going to wait and do the certificates at the end because we find that simpler. But if you guys want to go down and present and shake hands, which we're back to doing. And so if the students would each come up as your name is called, and I'm just going to tell you while they're getting set up, if you didn't get a chance to see this team play over the winter, I'm sorry for you because they played with a lot of heart and a lot of skill.
021It was a lot of fun to watch them. So go ahead. Thank you. So, we're really excited to share our congratulations to the Rner High School girls basketball team for winning the district 1 5A championship against Gwyn at Mercy Academy on February 25th, 2025 at Westchester University. They defeated GM in a dominant display where they took control early and put on a strong defense. Junior Anna Raer went eight for eight from the line and finished with 10 points. and junior Nia Yas Bradner's leading scorer put up 12 points and the final score was 48-33. The team went on to the state tournament failing or falling in the second round to Central League rivals Strath Haven BU. They ended the season 9 and eight. This was the first district 1 championship for the girls uh Radner
022girls basketball team since 2014. Congratulations All right. Um, if the girls could come up when they call their names. I I have heard that three of the girls are at the lacrosse game, so they're not here. So, congratulations to them. Um, Riley Dantramont is one of them. Sophia Angelos, is she here? Oh, Sadie Balden, Alli Krug, Anna Rager, Nia Yao, Mia Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you, Mia Yurvin. Congratulations, Ariel Mims, Caroline Quinn, Ellis Goba, Brie Simpson. Congratulations Marin Halpin, Julia Richardson, Kayla Stevens, and Joey Wallace. Congratulations. And the coaches, come on up. Coaches, are there coaches? No. On the next No, no. There's a on the next page there's a the team is led okay the team is led by head coach Rob Baxter and assistant coaches Moren Ward, Nicole Ward, Julianne Mlan, and Joe Hamill.
023The superintendent along with the board and the Rner community congratulates these students, their parents and coaches on their outstanding accomplishment. Congratulations. Congratulations. Okay, next recognition. I think Miss Stern is going to help us with and again we're going to do certificates outside. Yeah, I think Miss Brennan has them. So, as Martina said, we celebrate our student athletes and all their accomplishments. Sometimes we have some music things to celebrate which is always a favorite of mine. Uh Mera, would you like to come up? I don't. Oh, there you are. So, congratulations to Radner Jr. Meera Kaplan selected for the treble choir at the 2025 NAFME Eastern Division Conference. Congratulations to Radner Jr. for being selected as only one of five Elto1 vocalists from the state of Pennsylvania to participate in the National Association for Music Music
024Education's National All Eastern Honors Trouble Choir. Mirror has been an active and accomplished member of Rner Township's music program since elementary school. She performed her first solo choir in fifth grade under the direction of Mrs. Beth Hacker at Ethan Elementary. At Radner Middle School, she performed a featured so solo in a million dreams and was awarded the director's award for chorus by Mr. David Reef and Mrs. Heather Spindle. At Rner High School, Meera has continued to demonstrate exceptional music and uh musical skills and leadership. She is a member of the treble ac capella group Madreals and co-leads the mixed a capella group Prousica. She performs as a vocalist in the competitive honors jazz ensemble led by Mrs. Norah McDonald and serves as a soloist and alto section leader in Meister Singers under the direction of
025Mrs. Spindle. Meera has participated in PMEA PMEA honors choir since her sophomore year. She has consistently earned top placements at the district regional and all state levels. The NAFME National All Eastern Honors Treble Choir festivals consist of rigorous rehearsals under the direction of Dr. Jessica Naples, professor of coral music education at the University of North Texas. The event culminates in a concert on April 27th. So, next week, the superintendent along with the board and the Radner community congratulates Meera, her parents, and her teachers on her outstanding accomplishment. Thank you, Miss Stern. And congratulations again, Mera. Very impressive. Thank you. Uh, next item on the agenda, I suspect a number of you are here for, is public comment. Um, I'm going to just start by saying if you intend to give public comment this evening, there
026is a sign-in sheet by the door, and we would like people to sign in there. Um, and because a number of you may not have been here before, I'm going to be more formal and read the the public comment requirements. So, as per board policy 006, the board provides an opportunity at each regular board meeting for eligible participants to comment on matters of concern, official action, or deliberation which are or may be before the board. During the first public comment period, public comment can be made either in person or by telephone recording. I understand we do have some telephone recordings this evening. Um, and for details on how to make a public comment by recording in the future, uh, you see our website. Uh, when you come to the podium to make your comment, please
027state your full name and the town in which you live. You may make one comment period and you will have no more than four minutes to give your comment. We found it's been helpful for our solicitor to give people a warning when you have one minute left. So, please don't be disturbed by that. That's actually to help you make sure you get your comment condensed into your four-minute period. Um, and I think that's everything people need to know for this evening. Welcome. Who's here first? Hi. Again, just your name and sure. Town. Hello again. My name is Leah Press and I'm from Villanova. Dear board members in RER community, while I've spoken on this subject before, I felt the need to offer perspective once again. Many of us have expressed value in not banning books
028per our First Amendment rights. that the voice of the minority should not have lasting effects for all Rner families for years to come. That the ban books were approved by district experts and such have educational value. And that once books begin to be banned, what other books are next? Which subset of our community is the next to be targeted? While doing a bit of digging as to where the thought process began for challenging these books, I learned that there is a broader effort by people outside of our own district to subvert Ryan's values of inclusion and diversity, using religion and false info to strongarm school districts in an attempt to alienate and harm marginalized students. Religious indoctrination has no place in our in our public schools, but it can be an important tool for understanding
029people's thoughts and motivation at times. Statements that were made at last week's meeting and those in the original challenge do not exhibit the intent to love, care, and protect our students, but rather to use false information, inflammatory statements, threats to those that disagree with them, and fierce denial that it's okay to be yourself, especially if you are considered an outlier. In using religion as a tool, I offer this. In the New Testament, 1 John 4:78 teaches, "Let us love one another, for love comes from God. Whoever does not love God or whoever does not love does not know God because God is love." At the heart of our communities, it is the belief that every child is worthy of love and belonging. Books that include LGBTQ plus characters are not about promoting an agenda. They
030are about affirming the human dignity of all students. They are about love, which according to the Christian Bible is the greatest of all virtues. In the Torah, Deuteronomy 1620 states, "Justice, justice, you shall pursue that you may live and inherit the land which the Lord your God is giving you." This call for justice, repeated twice for emphasis, demands action and not silence. It calls for fairness, not just in the outcomes of life, but in the process of living from day to day. When schools remove books that affirm LGBTQ plus identities, they send a message to those students that their stories and experiences are unworthy of being known or respected. True justice in education means ensuring every student has access to books. Sorry. Um, true justice in education means ensuring every student has access to books
031that reflect both their lives and the lives of others. fostering empathy, connection, and understanding across [Music] differences. Um, my family's not queer, but I identify with being different. My family is different. Um, here we're not, but we've lived in communities where we are outliers. So, this hits home to me. The presence of diverse books, those with just words and those with words and pictures, is not a threat to student development. One minute. On the contrary, it reflects our shared responsibility to uphold justice, dignity, and compassion for all students. We value deeply rooted values that are deeply rooted in both religious and ethical traditions. As school board members, your decisions shape not just curriculum, but culture. Upholding the availability of these books, including those with LGBTQ plus themes, is not only consistent with best educational practices,
032but also reflects a commitment to basic principles of love, justice, and inclusion. Let us ensure that our high school is a place where all students feel safe, valued, and inspired. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Press. Mr. Rosen, I recognize you. Come on up. Hello. Hello you all. Um Carl Rosen. I live in Overhill Road in Wayne. Um and I also teach at Ryder High School for these past 26 years. Um last week at the curriculum committee, a parent opposed to what he deemed in appropriate books quoted a statutory definition. That statue, however, contains a key element that he neglected to mention. It has a section F titled exceptions. The first exception context in which is educational. He also quoted a federal statute, but cherrypicked around the part of the definition that insists that invalid material
033must lack serious literary or artistic merit. If you initially think that a reference to a statute indicates a cut and dried conviction of a book that contains sexual content, I ask you please not to quit thinking after you hear one side's story. Why would such statutes even need to identify exceptions or qualifications? Because content, intent, and art matter. When I teach my philosophy course at RER High School, we talk about how to address an argument which I simplify to consider the premises and consider the logic. Many community members have eloquently pointed out issues with the premises, including the obvious fact that the sexual partners in the challenge scene from Funhome are consenting 19-year-olds, not minors. And I add that decontextualization, cherry-picking, and straw man fallacies raise valid concerns about the logic of applying the aforementioned
034statutes to the three banned literary memoirs. for several reasons, some based on premise and some on logic and some on both. Um, these books, to the extent that I know them, all seem to me to pass the test for being reasonable material in a high school library. I'm the teacher who at the March curriculum committee meeting referred to the importance of considering complexity, although the speaker who referenced me last week at curriculum failed to represent what I said, which I hope was accidental and not an intentional distortion. He claimed that when I argued that showing images of minors engaged in sexual acts was an issue of complexity when what I actually said was that the issue of banning controversial material ex especially but not exclusively sexual material is not an issue of pornography but an
035issue of complexity. There is such a thing as pornography and pornography does not belong in a school library but these books are not pornographic. If someone disagrees with me I welcome that conversation but I do request that I not be misqued. It is an act of demagoguery to twist the words of one's counterpart into debate. We can have a fair and reasonable conversation if it is about the facts. That said, I do insist that complexity is a key element in helping our students develop as readers and thinkers. And at this point, I specifically want to refer to Funhome. This book has been a valuable intellectually challenging text that a few of my students have chosen as an option in class. The educational potential of that book in analyzing the buildings Roman the coming of age
036novel is clear to me in the thoughtful work those high school juniors have done with it experience makes it clear to me that the book has provided insight into the human condition. It may not be your personal story or mine but it is deeply human and yes it offers complexity that provides fuel to our thinking engines. My favorite story to have come out of the sad recent death of Pope Francis quotes his defense of literature that quote we must never forget how dangerous it is to stop listening to the voice of other people when they challenge us. Thank you to the school board for encouraging a thoughtful series of conversations on this topic and to our superb librarians whose professional judgment continues to impress me. Thank you, Mr. Rosen. Hi. Hi. Hi. My name is
037Laura Hannes. Um, I live in Wayne and I'm a school district parent to three sons, two at Wayne and one at the middle school. I appreciate the opportunity to give public comment today about the recent book banning at the high school and the need for reinstating these books, Fun, Home, Gender, Queer and Blankets. Now, as you may recall, I've given two other public comments um this spring about the issue, previously focusing on the policy and how we could needs to be revised, as well as lack of adherence to our mission statement for the township school district. At the last board meeting, um a wise commenter mentioned that the policy revision was necessary and can take some time as we all know how policies work. Um but there was a more real-time solution that could be
038done. So, that's why I'm here today. Third times a charm. Um, and what I want to spend my time talking about tonight are the um books themselves, kids and students and the and the teachers and how um fun home blankets and gender queer would be more impactful if the board were to approve this request tonight. First of all, I've read all three of the books and they're excellent works of art and literature. Beautiful masters of memoirs for self-discovery and internal strength of character. Any person that considers these works of art inappropriate for high school students should probably consider other um forms of literature that are read with the same microscope for um inappropriateness um such as Catchers in the Rye, Animal Farm, Hitler, Holocaust, Slavery, Civil Rights. I could go on. Um, and I would
039say that these books that were that were banned provide no significant issues from my perspective as as ways to cause any sort of harm to anyone. These are works of literature that help kids learn. And since we're on the subject of kids, let me move to my next point. The students gez not move the podium. Um, high school students and middle school students for that matter are rapidly changing biologically and emotionally. And we as parents and community members need to support them in their self-discovery of who they are and um what they want to be. Fun home blankets and gender queer are excellent examples of resources um for students to have access to for reading and knowledge discovery. These books should be there in the library now. And who better to help those students, children,
040adolesccents learn and discover the fantastic world of literature than librarians. Librarians and teachers are the lifeblood of this school district. They desperately need these books returned to the library for reference and a tool for learning. When these books were removed, you eliminated a helpful and theor uh therapeutic therapeutic tool. I work with medicine, so work with me there. Um for their educational toolkit. I'm way better with sports, so work with me on this. Think about the librarians as your quarterbacks in the literature team of life with the students only being as proficient to go through their high school careers as players in their game of life with the right quarterbacks. You have the right plays, the right resources to educate and train those players on the inclusive nature remaining. Thank you to love one everyone
041regardless of their differences and abilities. The teachers and staff need fun home blankets and gender queer back where more resources for self-discovery should never be considered a crime for curiosity and learning. I say to you board members, do the right thing for our school district students and teachers by approving the request to have the three books put back onto the shelves. Lead with love and learning. Be inclusive and transparent and make sure we're adherent to our mission statement for the Township School District. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Miss Haynes. [Applause] Oh, we had a race to the podium. No, we're good. You're fine. She'll come up next. Welcome. Uh, thank you. Uh, my name is Karina Lamett. I'm from Binmar and I speak on behalf of a group of Rner alums known as
042the Fininkalites. Uh, credit to Abby Longman for writing the statement on our behalf. Our members of the board and Radner community. We the undersigned are all beneficiaries of a superior Rner education mostly during the years of big shoulder pads and bigger hair in the 80s. As Rner students, we were challenged to do more, learn more, and expose our minds to more. Our teachers didn't avoid adult topics, and we were expected to identify sexual imagery in the poetry of Shakespeare and Dun and understand the horrors of the Vietnam War. In high school, I met many of the signers of this letter. Most of us met in the lobby area of Ms. Franfinkele's office in the library. As we became closer friends, we took on the name the Fininkelites in homage to our ever encouraging and infinitely
043patient host. It's really no wonder that we all met in the library. Libraries are places where we could be ourselves, seek out information, challenge each other, and find a deep fountain of creativity. I think it's fair to say that most, if not all, of the Fininkalites and other students too, of course, struggled in some way during high school, which is one of the reasons we are so concerned about the three graphic novels that were recently banned by the school board. Gender Queer by Maya Coobab, Funhome, a family tragic comic by Allison Bechal, and Blankets by Craig Thompson. In each of these books, a young protagonist struggles in a way relatable to most teens. In genderqueer, the main character doesn't fit in with societal expectations and strives for years to find and accept who he is.
044In Funh Home, a girl confronts her sexuality in a family where her dad hides his own sexuality. In Blankets, an awkward teen falls in love for the first time and discovers the highs and lows that can come with first love. The overarching themes of these books are all enhanced by the fact that they are graphic novels and the artwork emphasizes the emotions of the characters. Because it is a visual medium, there are portrayals of naked bodies in each of these books. But to call them pornographic is inaccurate and unfair. All three of these coming of age stories reflect situations that are currently being lived by Rner students and their families. Even those few students who cannot direct directly relate to the dilemmas faced by the characters in these books will benefit from learning about the
045experiences of others. The effects of bullying, low self-esteem, family misunderstanding and misinformation have all added to an increase in the likelihood of behavioral health issues including depression, self harm, and ultimately suicidal ideiation and actions. The argument that these books could cause childhood trauma, willingness to be sexually exploited, enabling sexual groomers, and acceptance of pedophilia as alleged by h Thank you. by the original parent complainant is not true. In fact, te teens who read these books and understand that they are not alone and are experiencing normal feelings and emotions would be less likely to fall prey to these feared harms. We believe that today's students deserve the right to access library materials that require maturity, critical thinking, and an open mind. The school district has done a great disservice to all students by removing these three
046books from the library catalog, and we hope that you will rectify that error immediately. I close with quoting Dr. Matt Finch, American Library Association. Libraries are innately subversive institutions born of the radical notion that every single member of society deserves free highquality access to knowledge and culture. Thank you very much. Thank you to you and the finales. Welcome. It's my turn now. Uh I'm Katherine Barrett Risk. I live in Rner, Pennsylvania. Obviously Pennsylvania. Uh, I'm a third generation Radner grad, so excuse me if I get a little emotional. Um, I just uh uh it took me like four years to convince my wife to move to Rander. Um, I grew up here and I became myself. I was welcomed in the community. it take it took me a really long time to come to terms
047with my identity but um that no that was um no shortage to the uh education I received at Radner and the support of friends teachers um staff all around so okay look I'm uh collecting myself here we go uh so it took me years to convince my wife to move to Rner um and when we were finally stepping into an area of life where where we wanted to lay down roots and create a family. I convinced her time and time again that this was a welcoming place and it was full of love and wonderful people. So, you can understand my embarrassment when just a few months in, I'm standing in front of a school board talking about uh band books, but um throughout history, and I don't have anything written, and it's really not that
048eloquent, but throughout history, the good guys are never the ones who want to ban books. So, I'm just gonna read from the afterward of Gender Queer, which was a book that I have never read, and I'm so glad that I did because as a 36-year-old gay woman, I learned a lot of things about my community that I didn't know that I I'm happy I did. But, um, anyway, this is what the writer Maya is writing uh after, uh, I decided to publish this book and just a few months before it's coming out. So, a few months before this book was published, I started seeing a therapist. The primary reason was to work through some of my fears and anxieties, but in the back of my mind, I also thought it might be a good idea
049to have an established relationship with a therapist before my book comes out in case I get a wave of online hate. I had no idea what the reception of this book would be, but I knew that the queer and trans content often receives push back. Every year, the American Library Association tracks instances of books being banned or restricted in schools and libraries. And every year, a large portion of censored books are written by queer authors or contain queer characters. So, I braced myself with an uncertainty of knowing what was to come. What I received instead of a wave of hate was a wave of online love. There were so many pre-orders that the first printing of the book was sold out before the release date. And by the week of release, we had already ordered
050a second printing. I began getting messages from multiple readers multiple times a week saying how much the book meant to them. People told me that the book helped them understand themselves, that they had shared it with a parent or a sibling or a friend or a partner or a child, and it had opened up a conversation about gender identity that they hadn't had before. Several people told me that they'd recommended the book to their therapist a few times. I often heard that families after reading the book started using their children's pronouns correctly. People told me that the book made them feel less alone, which in turn made me feel less alone. So after all that and my sad Saab story, I just want to say that I don't think that Rander wants to be on
051the wrong side of history. I think we want to be a community that supports not only its children, but Bill's allyship. And I really think that if we don't reinstate this book, it's a slippery slope and we became we become a town that we have never been and we do not want to be. Thank you. Thank you very much, Miss Barrett Risk. Welcome this evening, sir. Good evening. I'm Phil Buckley from Binmar. Mr. Stern, how are you? Used to be friends with Brian for a while. It's It's a small community. Surely is. Yeah. Uh, you're deciding whether to permanently ban three memoirs, books that tell real stories about identity and growing up, gender queer, fun, home, and blankets, armed pornography. There are powerful coming of age stories in acclaimed from acclaimed authors. When I went
052to RNER High School, I was one of only a handful of of out and proud students. Uh, uh, the fact that these books exist in our library and had been read uh should highlight progress in this school's district that has made. Uh I was a student here when uh Kiterunner was on our uh reading list for summer reading list for our freshman year. So it was post I believe that was the last book that was challenged. Correct. And um to see the whole process of kind of what happened behind closed doors. It kind of just seems like we're kind of slowly rolling back in a you know a way that I've never seen my 33 years living in this area. Um so I guess just to be quick about it because I don't want to
053be up here too long is this. Listen to your librarians. Trust your students. Bring these books back to where they belong. I have a lot of gay and trans friends that uh are both in my that are in my life that are both blood and not that I call my family. And they're dealing with enough right now as it is. So, let these kids have their books. Let them find an escape from their current world. And uh let me be clear, Nazis ban books. Hate and bigotry has no home here. And Nazis certainly don't either. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Buckley. Welcome. How are we doing? Good. My name is Carson Bose. I'm uh I'm in St. David's Wayne, depending on the uh the mailing address that uh the computer decides. Um I am a
054graduate of Rner High School and I don't like making these kind of speeches, so I'll be quick. But I value thea education I received at Radner Middle and High School. And I want those I want that for those who follow. Nationwide, there's been a sense of pulling the ladder up behind you in a general sense. As I went to college, I recognized the value of a Ratner education. I was better prepared than a lot of my collegiate peers. I could I was better at reading comprehension and and writing preparation. Um by providing the widest scope of information, opinions and perspectives, Rner provides students the best opportunity for se success in the future. And isn't that what the whole point of education is about? Mr. Rosen was one of my English teachers. I work in education
055now and that is not without the impact that many of my teachers at Radner who exposed me to those ideas and the value of perspective provided me. It is not the role of a single parent or a small group to determine what is appropriate material for a district or a township. This is not about three books. This is about the precedent that Rner could be setting here. There are students in every classroom grappling with these issues in my district too. To reject these concepts is to reject these students. And that is not the purpose of a school board, a district, a high school, a middle school, an elementary school. Give these people the respect that they deserve. Thank you, Mr. Bose. Another welcome face, Miss Perkins. My comment's so boring, it's a little embarrassing. Um,
056I'm Hadley Perkins, uh, Wayne PA, but I want to talk about procedure. Um, so not as heartfelt or interesting as what everybody else has shared, but I want to comment to suggest that it's more procedurally defensible to vote on the book now vote whether to put the books back on the shelf now than to wait down the road if the policy is revised um or revoked. I sympathize with wanting to wait until the policy is revised to decide whether to reshell blankets, gender queer, and fun home. I'm also a nerdy policy procedure person. Um, but I think while it makes intuitive sense to do that, to wait until there's a new policy, makes intuitive sense to have a clear-cut it makes I'm sorry. It's more defensible to have a clear-cut exercise of power than to
057vote based. Wow, my notes are really bad. So, these books were removed pursuant to the challenge made in January of 2025 under board policy 144.1. As we've been talking about this a lot, I think there's agreement that that that should be revised, but it's therefore appropriate that the decision to put them back on the shelf should be made in accordance with the policies that were in place when the challenge was entered in January 2025. Applying a policy to whe applying a policy to determine whether to put these books back on the shelf that didn't exist when the challenge was made would be deeply unfair to the parent who within his rights entered this challenge for submitted the challenge to the school district pursuant to policy 144.1 because policy 144.1 doesn't include a mechanism for returning
058the books to the library which has been discussed in policy um and elsewhere. The correct process to return any book, not even these these three specifically, but any book that had been removed pursuant to 144.1 is through the process that the district solicitor described at the the uh policy meeting, simply voting for the books to return immediately. There is no other policy that's appropriate for the books that were removed pursuant to 144.1. A decision to revise the policy first and then consider whether to return the books based on a policy that doesn't exist and didn't exist when the challenge was entered was filed is unfair to the complainant and it's not procedurally appropriate. Second, the process to review, revise, and possibly rescend policy 144.1 in my opinion should be independent and objective. It's really hard
059to see how the process will be viewed as independent and objective, if the board's decision about whether or not to return this book, these books to the shelf is even partly dependent on the policy review and how it's revised. Rather, the revision process should be done with a clean slate free from any lingering or potential arguments that the new policy was written to create a means to put these specific books back on the shelf. It's therefore, in my opinion, not only in the best interest of our students and for all of the reasons that we've heard tonight to put the books back on the shelf this evening, it's also in the best interest of the board and it'll help preserve the integrity of the new board policy related to the book challenges when and if
060it is revised andor revoked. So, as always, I thank you all for your time and energy and for listening to my boring comments. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Perkins. Welcome, Miss Stafel. It's not good when you guys remember our names, I feel. Um, my name is Meg Stafel. I'm from Wayne. It does feel like we're all in a really awkward book club meeting right now. Um, but I'm going to start with the assumption that like me, you have all read the books and are surprised by the lengths the complaints had to stretch the truth to make the images more objectionable than um they really are in context. Um, so I want to make sure that everybody here understands that even once the materials policy is revised, there will be no automatic mechanism to put the
061books back. Um, that's not how challenge policies have historically worked and that's probably not how ours would work either. Um, no matter what, the board is going to have to vote to overturn the decision of the ad hoc committee if they're going to go back, whether it's now or in three months. Our challenge policy had one librarian defending her job to accusations of grooming to three of her superiors, a colleague in a different department, and a parent. It was a really, really uphill climb from the get-go. No one is going to fault the board for siding with her now. Our community has learned so much over the past few months, and when we know better, we do better. We have massive bipartisan community support for returning the books now. You have a letter signed by
062over 150 community members and parents requesting that you return them now as well as the one from the thinkalytes. But more importantly, at least a dozen students have stood here in rooms like this one and said that they feel otherred, discarded, or rejected as a result of this decision. Waiting to vote makes these students have to come to more meetings and ask you again and again and again to see them and to recognize their discomfort. You have the power today to stop it, to stop making them beg you to let them belong here. There are people who choose to do this as a hobby. They keep posterite sized images of these books and a list of grievances in their basement and they come up to go from board meeting to board meeting and police station
063to police station, but that's not their hobby. They didn't ask to be advocates. They didn't sign up for this. Please don't make them come back here and ask you again. Thank you. [Applause] [Music] Thank you, Miss Stafel. Another repeat of Hi, my name is Anna Marie Jones, Wayne, Pennsylvania. I want to first of all thank you. I did write a letter because I wasn't able to attend the last meetings and I want to thank you so much for answering me back and um Liz and Sarah and letting me know that you are looking into amending the policy so that we have a more fair and accurate transparent way to review books. I am here because I fundamentally believe that the books that were removed do represent many of our children and that representation needs to
064be there in the libraries. It really truly does. I did take time to read one of the books, Funhome, and I agree, it's not pornographic. There are images that if the illustrations weren't there, the imagination is there to replace it. And that is needed for some kids. Kids need to have that representation. And I agree with whoever said, if you take that representation away, then you're telling the child that there's something wrong with them. So fundamentally I am here I'm here because I fundamentally believe that these books are important and I believe that so I actually have a question. I know you can't answer me now but um how closely do you look at intent when someone is challenging a book? And the reason why I'm asking that is because if a person fundamentally believes
065that a book is so damaging and so bad, then why is that person asking their child to check out that book and physically carry it home? So I wonder about intent. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Jones. Um, hi. My name is Caitlyn Rolchin. I live in uh Wayne, Pennsylvania, and my notes are very notelike and not uh scriptike, so sorry. Um, but I've kind of learned a lot about this and I've spent a lot of time like researching and I read all three of the books and I'm writing an article, but that's besides the point. Um, I know a lot about it and I don't know if you guys know, but there's a musical for Funh Home, which is a really good musical. But, um, a lot of my friends don't know as much about
066it and they're not here. But when I've talked to them, the general consensus has been that they don't want books randomly removed from the library. And like most high school students, they're not going to spend their Tuesday night trying to figure out what to say at a board meeting or how to read a book that they don't want to read. But they still believe that books shouldn't be um removed from our libraries. And they also, I think, really trust our librarians. And one of the biggest things that I learned about while I was researching was um the amazing job that our librarians do selecting books. And I didn't really know how they selected books or what the process was for that. But there is a process and they select books for the students for our
067best interests. And I personally have checked out a book from the library, though I know that I mentioned a couple weeks ago that a lot of people haven't. Um, and I really appreciate our librarians for doing that. And I know that they're some of the students favorite people at this school and that we trust them and we want you guys to also trust them to make decisions concerning the library. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Rollin. Welcome, sir. I'm Craig Press. I live in Radner. Um, I'm also a pediatric neurologist in the area. I'll talk about a couple different things. Um, books really can't hurt anyone. What can hurt people is people, and that's what's happening in our community. No one's ever caught gay from a book. But just like that, you also apparently can't uh
068catch kindness and love from reading the Bible or a religious text. That's not what they do. What you can do is scare people into becoming afraid and hurting themselves. And I take care of kids all the time that have shot themselves, shot other people because they don't feel like they're included in a community and they're afraid. And that's what happens. That's dangerous. These books not dangerous. And so families and kids don't feel like they're supported in the community because they're afraid that their identity or that people are afraid enough of their identity that the idea of their identity in a book means it has to get removed from the school and that the school is itself supporting that that creates danger. That will make students afraid and that will make students dangerous and that's what
069we don't want. We need students to feel supported because it doesn't actually matter what the content of this book was. Banning books is bad. We should put the books back and allow our students to read and learn concepts. The concepts and the ideas in the book are not the dangerous thing. Not being able to argue and reason through and make a decision is the dangerous thing. Having a book in school about communism isn't what made people communists, but not knowing how to rationalize and argue about that is the danger. So the lack of exposure to the ideas is really the problem. We should include books in school that allow people to see different ideas, learn about different cultures and identities so that they can feel included. And that way we don't have kids feeling like
070they don't belong and become dangerous to their communities, to themselves, and that they can make arguments that will allow um make arguments to feel included and advocate on their behalf. whatever the concept or idea is. So, please put the books back. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Press. Anyone else? Mr. Moore, former school director Moore. Welcome. Hi. Uh, Bradley Moore, Rosemont. It was great to hear, uh, Fran Finkele's name mentioned. She was a great teacher. Um, I met her in high school obviously and and she taught me to read and I don't mean, you know, understand words on the page. She taught me to really read. Uh, and I'm so grateful to her for that. I'm here to speak about uh item 8.3. Uh, thank you for putting 8.3 on the agenda tonight. A lot of
071people have been asking for you to have a deliberation and a discussion and potentially a vote about whether to return these books to the library while you are also considering revisions to the policy that led to their removal. Um, I'd also like to mention a couple board members who've already said some thoughts, articulated some thoughts about, you know, what is the right time for this? At the March meeting, I raised some public comment and uh, Mrs. uh Stern made some comment about, you know, her thoughts on what the right time to do this. And in the recent curriculum committee meeting, uh Mrs. Duffy made some comments about timing. Um and I appreciate that thoughtfulness. But the most important thing tonight, whether you vote or not, is to have a robust debate. Everyone here wants to
072know how you feel about these books, what your judgment is, and your beliefs using that judgment about what should happen to them, whether it's happening tonight or in the future after the policy is revised. So my first request is that we hear from everyone on the board how how do you feel? Where are you? Where do you stand on these books? I'd also talk like to talk a little bit about um board governments, board governance and proper procedure. I really want to thank Mrs. Duffy also for raising that principle when she was talking about timing. Um you know when is the right time to consider putting these books back into the library? However you vote on that, what is the right time to consider that issue? Uh that is the highest principle right board governance
073and following proper procedure whatever the outcome is um as long as you are keeping that principle close to you um you can believe you are doing the right thing. Um we have an agenda item that um was properly noticed. Um it was raised in the curriculum committee and discussed in curriculum committee. Um it would be possible to make a you know motion to postpone a motion to table and not have a vote on that item tonight. But what would feel more like um sticking to your principles of good governance when you've noticed this action item? Um when you're going to have a deliberation about it tonight to push it down the road to possibly be discussed after you revise a policy. We're not even sure exactly what that revision will look like or to meet
074the moment and make a decision about that tonight. Um you know, what would feel truer to you in respecting principles of board governance? Um, and what do you think the public would recognize as a better representation of principles of board governments? I'd like you to think about that. My answer is I think that you should have a discussion tonight. Um, and also have a vote tonight. Um, but I will not judge anyone here negatively if that's not your view and you prefer to wait until after the policy is revised. But how that policy is revised, I mean, there's a couple of ways it could go. you know, potentially there will be a mechanism for board review after a book is challenged and there be could be some kind of safeguard. Um, potentially there won't even
075be a pro process for removing books. But if you don't deal with these books tonight, um, you're going to be dealing with them eventually. We're all here now. Whatever the outcome of that policy debate, we might as well discuss it tonight and hopefully vote on it tonight. Uh, I'd be remiss also if I didn't briefly mention action item 8.1 on the agenda. Um, Mr. Pauling, budget looks great. 10 out of 10, no notes. All right. Thank you all. Thank you, Mr. Moore. Miss Loose, welcome. Hello. My name is Sher Loose. I live in Wayne and I wanted to address you tonight to say when I first came before the board on the 25th of February, I was the only one at the meeting and I came specifically because members of Red Wine and Blue, which
076I am the leader of in Pennsylvania, were reaching out to me and saying there were rumors that Radner was banning books. So, I came and I read a statement all alone. And you now see what this community has done. the people who are here and standing up, the students who have come before you, the people who have shared their very emotional, personal stories. This is real and this is our community. Now, stories have come back to me also that some members of our administration and board are saying I'm part of an extremist organization who stirred this up. I want to be clear, there was never a call to action to the Red, White Wine, and Blue membership. I intentionally came alone and kept this quiet to see what would happen. And your community has stood
077up and made it very clear where we stand on this. Red, Wine, and Blue is not an extremist organization. If so, I'm out there every day fighting to keep vouchers at bay. Vouchers are going to destroy public education in Pennsylvania. Radner will be hit really hard. I'll continue to fight whether you call me an extremist or not. I'm going to keep fighting to protect our teachers to make sure they can teach real history, our science teachers can teach real science. Our, you know, English teacher can teach real literature and I'm going to protect our librarians and the integrity that they bring to this school. If that's extremist, call me extremist. But I'm not going to stop fighting for these things. Tonight, you have the opportunity to write a wrong. The policy was bad. We all
078knew it was bad, but we didn't pay attention even when they tried to have our superintendent arrested because we just all thought, "Oh, the policy must be okay." And that's why nothing happened. Shame on me for not digging in and looking at that policy back then. But we've looked at it now. The policy is bad. You have the opportunity tonight to put those books back where the students need them. We met. You told me they're not pornography. They asked you to remove them because they're pornography. They're not. Put the books back tonight. Show the students you care. Then fix this policy. Fix it so we don't have to see us in the Philadelphia Inquirer again. so that we don't have to have meeting after meeting with our community saying this does not happen in Rner.
079Fix it tonight, please. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Loose. Welcome. Good evening. I'm Erin Starzik from Wayne, Pennsylvania. I have a 10th grader and a sixth grader. So, I'm here like everyone else um urging you, asking you, begging you um embarrassingly so to reconsider the removal of genderqueer fun home and blankets from our from our school library. The decision, as you all know, is based on an antiquated and deeply flawed policy, one that lack clarity, transparency, and fairness. It enables decisions to be driven by individual political and social ideology that rather than collective educational values, we should uphold as a district. In this case, the the ideologies clearly target the LGBTQ plus community and under the misleading guise of pornography. Let's be clear, as everyone has said tonight, this isn't pornography. These books aren't pornographic.
080They're awardwinning books, critically acclaimed works of art. They explore identity, trauma, belonging, and healing, deeply human experiences that all of our students are going through. Sorry. What's troubling is this is in contradiction of our mission at Rener Schools, and I quote what our mission is. It is to inspire in all students the love of learning and creating and to empower them to discover and pursue their individual passions with knowledge, confidence and caring to shape the future. The mission of Rener schools is under three principles belonging wellness and achievement. How does banning books, particularly those that reflect the experiences of the LGBTQ students, support a sense of belonging? How does erasing representation contribute to wellness or encourage achievement? This ban continued to send the message that some students stories aren't worthwhile, some students stories are inappropriate,
081and it's indirectly inconsistent with our district's stated purpose. And let's be honest what this really is about. The issue is not the content. The issue is discomfort with LGBTQ plus identities being represented in an honest and unfiltered way. This censorship is disguised as concern. And history has shown how dangerous that is. I'm going to repeat the question that someone else asked before. What side of history do you want to be on? What slippery slope president is this setting within this? Or do we want to be a district that continues to empower our students and have alumni come back here as they did today to represent and to show us how great these students can be. Our students deserve access to diverse stories, especially the ones that challenge us, make us reflect, and help us grow.
082If we truly stand for belonging, wellness, and achievement, then we must stand against censorship. Thank you, Miss Darzik. Welcome. Um, good evening. My name is Natasha Thomas and I live in Wayne. I have children in all three levels of our school district, the elementary school, the middle school, and the high school. So, I care deeply about what's happening in our schools at every stage. Thank you to the Rner School Board for your time and dedication and to the many parents on both sides who have spoken with thoughtfulness and concern. We're all here because we want to protect and support our children. I'm speaking tonight against banning books from our high school library and asking for your vote to put the books back on the shelves tonight. All of the comments tonight, I feel I need
083to say ditto. I don't know if I can add much more um than just adding one more voice of reason for fairness and protecting the most v vulnerable in our community. I understand the desire to shield k kids from content that may feel uncomfortable or unfamiliar, especially when it comes to books portraying alternative families or relationships. But removing these these books doesn't protect kids. It limits their ability to think critically and empathize with others. As someone who values conservative principles such as personal responsibility, freedom, and not to mention limited government, I believe that censorship has no place in our public school. Parents have every right to guide their own children's reading, but not to decide for all families. We already have trusted experts making these decisions. Our high school librarians who are vetted by this
084board and the administration, hold advanced degrees in education and child development. They are the ones best equipped to choose what's age appropriate, not a small group of individuals based on personal beliefs. Books don't harm kids. Ignorance does. Denying students access to diverse perspectives doesn't build strength. It fosters fear and shame. Based on the amazing presentations by the students earlier, it's clear that our district is doing an amazing job. Let's continue to raise students who are resilient, informed, and grounded in their values, not sheltered from the world they're about to inherit. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Thomas. Welcome. Come on up. Good evening to the board. My name is Emily Nelson and I'm a resident of Wayne. Um, and I'm here to ask for two things. One is the return of blankets, gender queer, and fun
085home to the shelves in the library. Two, to scrap the policy that results in some uncomfortable complainant imposing their parenting decisions on everyone else in this district. I find it hard to believe that the complaintants uh the complaints that resulted in removing the books were made in good faith. They these people purportedly want to protect children from graphic imagery. Yet they exploit every opportunity to publish those images in exaggerated out of context enormous form to as wide uh of an audience as possible through televised meetings, public demonstrations, and practically begging reporters like Savvy Mainline to publish them on Al Gore's internet. Um these are all public venues where unlike in the Rner High School library, there is no one there to curate the material. There is no controlling who sees it. It could be infants,
086preschoolers, elementary school kids, anyone. People are exposed to them involuntarily and against their will. Um unlike in the library where you have to seek and check out a book, um it's hard to avoid these signs that someone is holding up in front of a camera or in your face. Whatever their motives, however, their their argument is just plain wrong. It's not pornography. Pornography is gratuitously graphic content with no educational, historical, sociological, artistic, or other merit. And you've heard students and former students tonight and in previous committee and wider board meetings tell you why these books have merit. These books reflect some students reality and their discomfort, their questions and struggles with gender identity, sexuality, conformance, acceptance, rejection by peers, parental neglect, and even abuse. And if you read the books, and I hope you did,
087I did, uh, you noticed that they're all memoirs. They're records of lived experiences, and that all of the authors felt compared to share their stories and their struggles with others to maybe prevent other kids from struggling, from feeling alone or suffering in silence. Far from encouraging or predisposing the kids to victimization by abusers, these books help identify unsafe people and unsafe situations and show that there's a path through adversity and tragedy. So other students who have testified before you, they've said that they don't see themselves in the book and that's okay. They still didn't want them banished either. either the books don't or the issues in the books don't affect them or maybe those children um like to have them on the shelves because it reminds them that hey there are all kinds of people
088in this school and in this world gay, straight, male, female, between and beyond the binary. Um some opponents of the books may protest, well Emily, what about my rights as a parent to control what my child is exposed to or can access? And I say one, there's a mechanism already in place for you to prevent your child from taking out the books. Sadly, that's your choice. And number two, good luck. The quickest way to peique a kid's interest is to say, "You can't do this. You can't read this. You're too naive. You're too vulnerable, unintelligent, or incapable. This spurs the spunky kids into action. It demoralizes uh everyone uh because it sends a message that are unable to to process. It puts everyone at a disadvantage because kids learn through exposure and experience." Um, so
089again, I'm asking you to act tonight to reinstate the books because inaction is also a policy, especially since as the excellent excellent presentations on social studies and English language development at the curriculum committee meeting uh last week stressed the goals of locally developed and diverse and relevant curricula that focus on encouraging uh students to investigate topics in-depth and make meaning of their learning um leading to a sense of belonging to self, to school, and the wider your community. Um, I ask that you trust and respect the judgment and guidance of trained, caring librarians. Um, I said that I was going to ask you for two things and I'm I'm not actually I'm actually asking for more, which is one, return the books right now. Scrap the policy. It's flawed. Time is expired. Thank you very
090much. Thank you, Miss Nelson. Mr. Frolic. Welcome. Hi, my name is Ken Frolic. Um, my family is very much involved in Radner. My wife's a retired Radner teacher. My children got an excellent education and both are graduates of the Rner High School and went on to get uh graduate degrees. We, my wife and I, decided to come here because we really care about the community and we we were really appalled at the idea that we were banning books. I was going to say a number of different things, but the people who preceded me up here have pretty much said most of the things I I wanted to say. But there is one point that wasn't made. This is part of what's going on in our country. There are people being forced out of career positions
091in our government. They're being censored out because of their positions. There are law firms that are being blackmailed into taking positions. Harvard University just had to take a stand to stop government censorship. There are TV stations whose licenses are being threatened. This may seem like a small thing in that big much bigger fight against censorship and against going against the freedom that we've always had, but I think it's a step that it's a stand that we must take now. We must not back off of it or let it go. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Frolic. Hi, welcome. I'm Jody Warren. I live in Wayne. Good evening and thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. I'm here tonight in support of returning the recently banned books to our library shelves. These books were chosen
092by educators and librarians for their educational value and their removal has deprived students of access to diverse perspectives and important conversations. That said, I think it would be wise to consider changing the policy in full first to ensure that future challenges like this don't continue to create disruption and confusion. If we're truly committed to protecting intellectual freedom and supporting our educators, then we must not only restore these books, but put lasting and strong protections in place. If there is alignment on the board with respect to making the necessary policy changes, I respectfully request the board to proceed swiftly and transparently with the policy update process. With an understanding that this review process could be complete by the midJune board meeting, not only will this demonstrate good governance, it will also eliminate the possibility of future
093challenges which can further undermine the integrity of our school libraries as well as the greater Rner community. I want the books back on the shelves tonight as much as most of us here do, but I'd want to do it with care and with intention. Let's get this right and make sure it lasts. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Warren. You're next. You We'll take your comment now and then you can sign in when you're done. Thank you. Um I'm Jess Enoch. I have three children, two at the high school and one at the middle school. I live in Wayne. Um I just wanted to elaborate on the point this gentleman made. I'm a professor at the University of Maryland and I have a joint appointment in women's studies and um rhetoric and writing studies. And I
094do want to just say if I was grading all of the arguments here, I'd be very um I think that they we've made some really thoughtful arguments about what our main values are and what how we make decisions and and we make decisions based on values and we make decisions on the values that we believe we want to uphold. And so I think it's up to you to make some decisions about the values you want to say. you you make decisions upon, which is what we think rhetoric and argument is. As a women's studies professor, I just want to note that across the country, LGBTQ um uh centers at universities are being shut down and being renamed to be communities of inclusion or shut down completely. My job, I might not be teaching women's studies
095classes next year. So, this is up to you. We can say that we are going to take these books off the shelf or we're going to say that we're not going to be part of this movement that is erasing LGBTQ identity in our nation. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Knox. Is there anyone else in person? I know we have some recorded comments, but I don't want to miss anyone who's in the audience. Okay. Can we hear the recorded comments, please? Can I just ask how many we've got so we know we have four. Okay. Thank you. Please reinstate rebs are not age appropriate. age appropriate means suitable in terms of topics, messages and teaching methods for the development and social maturity of the particular age or age group of children or adolescence based on developing
096cognitive, emotional and behavioral capacity typical to that age range. In this definition, we see that the library has an obligation to provide access to books for older children that are near to but not older than the age. The publishers of these three books clearly designated this group. Bradner's website a link to the ALA website where it says the American Library Association stringently and unequivocally maintain that libraries and librarians have an obligation to resist efforts to systematically exclude material dealing with any subject matter including sex, gender identity, gender expression or sexual orientation. The school librarian work to provide a dynamic well-rounded or variety of literature to create the opportunity for children to develop a love for reading. um this book banning is hindering that lifelong endeavor. If if if belonging, respect, and fairness are Rner's vision,
097then excluding these books is taking action that is counter to this vision because it sends a message that certain people do not belong here in RER. Banning these three books means that we're trying to ban those who have different gender identity than the typical binary identity that the majority has. Where does this end? Was asked by a student representative on the board last week. Once you start banning books relating to one group of people, that opens the door to continue banning books relating to other groups. You cannot let this negative trend continue. Therefore, we need to put these books back on the library shelves. This action would be symbolic of standing in solidarity with those who are marginalized in our community. Actions speak louder than words. The way that you treat the smallest, most marginalized
098group of people in our community, the way that you ultimately treat us, how do you treat those who are different from you? Um this is this is how we demonstrate to children um you know what it means in our country to have a have first amendment rights and freedom of speech. Um our children are watching us deal with this tricky situation. Are we advancing or eliminating our country's values with these actions? This is not an easy decision to make considering the political agenda against marginalized people as our federal executive branch bans certain groups of people that it dislikes. But I would rather do the right thing by standing up for the minority. Doing nothing allows this archaic agenda to continue. An agenda that gives rest to those in need of help the most. To be
099the kind of community where people can belong, Radner monitors and provides uh qualified teachers and continually improves um resources for hundreds of families that speak 35 different languages in their homes like Spanish or urgent. This program was showcased last week and I could see the pride that everyone had and how successful it was making um making the community a place where everyone belongs. So I just ask that you extend this this same action to these three books, home fun, gender queer, and blanket by putting them back on the shelves. Nobody's being forced to read these books. They're just being made available to uh people that want to read them. Thank you. Hi. Uh, my name is Rachel Rosen. I live at 601 Glen Mary Road, St. David, Pennsylvania. And I'm calling to support uh returning
100the three books that were removed from the library. I'm calling to support uh returning them to the library shelves at RHS. Thank you so much. This is Rachel Spurlock. Hello. I live in Wayne, Pennsylvania. I'm calling today regarding the revision process for the book challenge policy 144.1 and any related policies to book challenges. I would like to respond to a comment that Jamie Laauo made at the last policy meeting. At the meeting, Miss Lao suggested removing any policy that allows book challenges. Having had nearly two weeks to consider her suggestion, I would like to voice my agreement for taking up her suggestion. I'd like their revision to result in there being no official channel to challenge this. We are living in a time when the profession of teaching is under siege. When teachers are devalued
101regardless of their multitude of training, their talents, their strengths, and their dedication to children in our schools. Teaching is one of the few profession where there's there's ongoing professional development. And in my experience as an education professor, I know that teachers embrace this with passion. I've been to teacher conferences, librarian conferences, and one of the things that I have profoundly that has profoundly impressed me time and again is how dedicated teachers are to serving their students. They do this by working with other teachers whether in the district or across the country. And they do this with the goal of ensuring that all students are successful. So when we put in place policies such as 144.1 that allow one anonymous individual to submit a complaint that undermines their teachers expertise and challenges their commitment to serving
102all students then we are undermining our ability to have good teachers and excellent schools. I would like to applaud Jamie Laauo for her innovative thinking and to remind people that our democracy works best when we participated in the way that a democracy is expected to work. We can run to be on the school board. We can vote for people to be on the school board. We can attend schoolboard meetings and speak up. And we can stay engaged in our community to ensure that we're communicating clearly what we hope for our children and we hope for each other. So, I would like to see the school board take up Jamie's suggestion and remove policy 144.1. If, however, the school board decides to revise the policy rather than remove it, then I hold by the suggestions I
103made at the last policy meeting. Thank you very much to all school board members for taking this seriously, for doing the due diligence to make sure that the policy makes sense for our community and for your ongoing commitment to our students. Um hello, my name is Karen First. I reside in Villanova. Um I wanted to call I'm unable to attend um the board meeting for April 22nd, but I wanted to um leave a comment um uh for the meeting this evening. Um my uh the reason for my call is to recommend or ask that the recent um books that were removed from the Rner High School library um after a challenge um by a parent and decision by a very small committee. Um I I would recommend that the books be put back in the
104library. I think this entire process of the challenge and then subsequent meetings that have been had showing the flaws and issues with the town system to show that um right now we're still working in a very flawed system and until the board and whatever steps need to be taken to have a really sound process finalized um to ensure that books are challenged for the right reasons removed for the right reasons um with the correct process I would I think it would make sense that books that were removed based on a a very flawed at best process um should still be available at this time. Um and my reason for that is just because the process really doesn't work in the way it's intended um my thought is that we should be deferring to the experience
105and expertise of the librarians um in the school. I really think they have the students best interest at heart. um they have the experience necessary to work in and run a library. They have the knowledge, the background, the training, and they're often the ones who are interacting with the student body on a day-to-day basis and have a sense of what the students need. Um what what a cross-section of students need. Um so I really just think their experience, their expertise, um and their position makes them the most qualified to be making these decisions at this current time. And then when or if a new process is designed um that is really more thorough and robust than the previous one. Um at that point any book challenges and removal of books can be determined through that.
106Um but because that's lacking at this time it just seems to make the most sense to have the books still available. Um I my understanding is also that one of the books that had been removed is part of a teacher's curriculum. um and that if the books aren't available in the library, the teacher can't teach that particular book. Um I think that's a real disservice to the teacher who designed the course, who's been using that book and to the students who um you know maybe were preparing to read that book. So obviously teacher input is also important and it seems like part of that was missing in this process. So again just recommending that the books would be made available until a more thorough process has been developed by the board. Um and at that
107later time, you know, uh if the book to serve as the book should be removed, um it can happen at that point. Um thank you so much and um we really appreciate your time and energy that you're putting into all of this um for the school and that's the last one. Thank you very much. Um and now comes the frustrating part for all of you because we have other business we're going to do before we get to this discussion. So uh bear with us. we we will get to the topic you all seem to be here to talk about. Um so the next item on the agenda is the report from board committees. Uh the first agenda to discuss is the curriculum committee. Dr. Babson. Okay. Thanks for your patience. I just had to shuffle
108my notes there. Okay. So, the board curriculum committee met on Tuesday, April 15th at 5:00 PM at the Rner Township School District administration building, and we had a very full agenda. We had the English language development curriculum audit presentation as well as the social studies curriculum audit presentation. And we also disc discussed uh approval of the return of the books as we've been uh discussing or as we've heard um much about in our public comment tonight. Um just a little note on that. This matter uh having been discussed there was recommended to our uh business meeting agenda tonight and you can see that as item 8.03. That's it. Thank you Dr. Babson. Uh, the facilities committee, Miss Duffy. Yes, the committee. The facilities committee met on April 15th at 7 p.m. Um, Mr. Thornton and
109Miss Solomon both had excused absences. Um, we had an update on the Ethan project. Really more from a, you know, a schedule. We had a tree person there. Um, Miss Solomon, we're sorry you weren't there to ask your questions, but we had, um, him there ready to answer. Um but um we also um and then we did we did take a look at kind of um we talked about the bid preparation that's undergoing right now and um the alternates that will be in that bid process. Now we didn't move anything. There's nothing on the consent agenda to look at. It was really information only and so we will be reviewing much of that information next week I mean next month in the facilities meeting before moving it forward to the board. Thank you. Great. Thank
110you. Uh finance, Miss Solomon. Thank you. The finance committee met on April 8th. There are several items on the consent agenda that went through committee. Um they include the contract for with American Capital for the purchase of the Surface Go 4. um the United Concordia contract for the district um dental carrier, a contract with the Montgomery County Intermediate Unit for educational assistance, the contract with the Richard Karen Foundation for Behavioral Health Support, the contract with Christine McCloski for special a as a special education consultant to the district, and the Lakeside Youth service contract also for mental health support in the schools. We um had the agenda item for the reappoint of the Rner school board member that will be the representative to the Delaware County Intermediate Unit. And then lastly, we received the um update
111of the proposed final general budget for the 2025 2026 school year. And I do have one question on an item that is on the consent agenda um that did not go through our committee. It's a contract with St. Joe's University. Did that go through curriculum? Yes. Okay. So, that was just grouped in with the finance items. That was on curriculum. It went through because it's an academic affiliation. Thank you. Just clarifying. Our next meeting will be May 6 at 5:00 PM in ground floor, the garden suite of the administration building. Thank you, Miss Solomon. Um, and the last update is about government relations and comm Oh, I'm sorry. My apologies. I missed you at the bottom there. Policy. Miss Stern, you had a busy meeting this month, too. We did have a busy meeting. So,
112the policy committee met on April 8th. On tonight's consent agenda, we have six policies that are up for second read. Five of them are for adoption. One of them is for repeal. We also have two policies on the consent agenda that are up for first read. Um, as an as an agenda item for discussion, we did discuss policy 144.1. We had a fair bit of public comment. We had an overview and presentation by Mr. Beck told who I want to thank again for stepping in for Dr. Hand and we're happy to see Dr. Hand here tonight doing well. Um but we had a really robust conversation and explanation of the status of our policy. Now I do want to clarify because I did hear one public comment that kind of led me to believe there
113might be a little bit of a misunderstanding. Policy 144.1 is our library selection process policy. The bulk of that policy is really about how the librarian chooses and considers and curates and cultivates the library books that are in our our five libraries. There is one provision at the end of that policy that provides for the challenge uh the challenge of a particular book which has been the subject of so many public comment this evening uh policy committee meeting curriculum committee meetings. So we are not considering eliminating policy 144.1. We will uh have had and will continue to have a policy that covers the selection process for the books that are in our libraries under the guidance of our librarians. Um as was discussed at our policy committee meeting um on the heels of some public
114comment that was made uh we did consider on on April 8th the notion of what might it look like if we simply eliminate the option for an individual par parent to challenge a book. So um in you know and that we didn't we we made no decisions. We had no intention of making any decisions at our April 8th meeting. We really wanted to take the time to discuss and understand this process how we got here. Um hear what our different individual committee members feel about if we have a challenge policy what might that look like? What should it be constitute? Uh the committee the process all of the various things that we did say that we wanted to hear and discuss after taking in a lot of public comment the last month or so. Um,
115I think what we can expect to see at our next meeting, which will be Tuesday, May 6th, I think at six o'clock, um, but it will be publicized, is uh, we will take under consideration two options of the policy. One will have the potential for a challenge, one will not. I don't know what our committee will discuss that night. I don't know what the community wants to give us um in terms of feedback, but I I wanted to be really upfront with you that that's probably what our May uh policy committee will look like as it relates to that one policy is we will consider that and then after the May meeting um and see what our committee says. You know, I expect that we'll have something to present at the May business meeting for
116a first read and you know, let's see. But I' I've been really grateful for all the public comment and the input and the thoughtful conversation that we've had uh at our committee meeting. So that's a longer than usual report. I apologize, but there was really meaty important things that we discussed. Thank you. Never apologize for providing valuable information to your peers and to the community. Uh last item on the um committee's review is the general uh government relations and communications committee. We didn't actually meet this month. Um but most of the board members were able to attend. I had to leave early. Um a legislative breakfast that we have. And for people who don't know, this is a great opportunity. We set up we invite our local legislators. So Lisa Bowski who is our state
117rep, Amanda Kapali, who's our state senator, and u Mary Gay Scandlin who was unable to she's our um US rep to Congress. She was unable to attend but she sent a representative. and they come and they meet um with our staff and our administrators and most importantly I think our students um oh and board members um to talk to us about what it's like being a legislator, what it's like trying to represent us um but also to hear from us what it is we need, what we're looking for, what kind of help we need getting um good support at the government level and and this year I think there were some really valuable conversations. Um something I I've told people that really struck me in that meeting and I um for the students who are
118listening, thank you. But um I was really struck in a community where a lot of people um can seem very privileged at how appreciative our students were at that meeting for a Radner education. Um and and they a number of them said that how fortunate that they are. They know they're fortunate to grow up in Rner. and I I really appreciated um their valuable contributions, but also their um awareness of what it is to have an education in this community. Um we may or may not meet I I don't think government relations is slated to meet in May. We often meet kind of half the time. Um and we don't have anything active going on right now. So there's plenty going on, but we're not controlling it. Uh so and were there any community announcements?
119I usually do those later, but was anything? Okay. So the next item on the agenda is the priority discussion and action items um 8.01 is the approval of the 2025 2026 proposed final general fund budget. So the recommended action here is that the board adopts the 2025 2026 proposed final general fund budget in the amount of 125,364,728 representing a real estate tax increase of Z.6084 mills or 4.0% over the 2024 2025 taxes. I need a motion or do we want to hear? Okay, I need a motion. So, did I get a motion? I didn't see the motion. Was that you, Miss? Oh, so moved. Okay, Miss Duffy, may I get a second? Thank you, Miss Girtton. Um, I think do you want me to read this or do you want Brian to give his presentation
120first? I'll I'll read this. Okay. So the next step in the budgeting process in accordance with act one is for the board of school directors to adopt the 2024 2020 I'm sorry 2025 2026 proposed final general fund budget. Uh therefore in conformance with the special session act one of 20 of 2006. The board hereby authorizes the adoption of a proposed final general fund budget for the fiscal year 2526 in the amount I stated before added a millage rate of 15.8193 mills. The budget will be available on the district website at least 20 days prior to the adoption of the final general fund budget which will be on May 27th, 2025. Administration will advertise the intent to adopt the final budget no later than 10 days prior to adoption on May 27th, 2025. Okay, Dr. Bashel,
121do you have something you want to say first? Yep. Just before we turn it over to Mr. Pauling, Mr. Pauling will uh provide a a really quick overview. We've been working at this really since January. There's been several uh presentations at our our finance committee meetings and also at our board meetings. So, I want to thank all the board members for um being involved in that process as we move forward. Tonight's budget vote is the proposed final. You will be as you know asked to vote on the final budget next month. Um right now this is set at the index. We are looking at and anticipating trying to come in below that um by next month. Um so, Mr. Pauling. I'll turn it over to Mr. Pauling for share some slides and pre and summarize
122some of the discussions we've been having the last few months. Thank you. And Dr. Bachelor made a comment about the the budget uh process and tonight being our proposed final budget and then final budget approval um on May 27th. Uh so procedurally under act one, we we are required to pass a proposed final budget at least 30 days before the final budget. So what we are presenting this evening is not our final budget. Um as Dr. Bachelor said we have identified some additional adjustments to make uh which will be reflected in the final budget which should get us under the the 4% act one index. Um but what we're presenting tonight is more of a procedural item. We do need to file this budget with the Department of Education um and then do the normal
123requirements that are part of act one for the advertising and posting of this budget before the final budget approval in May. So, what I want to do tonight is just talk a little bit about the budget um and maybe a little beyond the numbers of it, but just some some some thought and uh you know, what does this budget represent? And I, you know, for Miss Laauo, I brought the the quote back from uh before and I I will preface this to say I may run out of these quotes. I don't know if you've ever tried to find quotes on on education finance. Um so I've got a handful, but it it might get a little tight after that, but I did want to bring this one back um because I really think it it's
124it's indicative of what we put into our budget process that they are not just numbers, but it's an expression of our values and aspirations. And I think um you know when we create this budget you know my primarily responsibility is to look at the numbers but we look at this globally from uh district staff, district administration, the board of directors to say what does this budget represent? And we try to build this budget around our core pillars uh which are achievement, wellness and belonging. And we have our district initiatives that are put into um this budget every year um including the budget that we have next year. So uh just items related to district uh and student achievement initiatives in our technology department related to AI, our um MTSS program, our new Ethan Elementary School.
125Um and then just some of the departments uh our teaching and learning department with uh new textbooks for uh our ongoing curriculum refresh cycle, our technology refresh cycle, um what goes into buildings and grounds to make sure that we maintain adequate facilities for our students and staff. And then our pupil services who deals with our special education students and the needs that they have. And this is just a snapshot. We also have our other operational departments um that go into this such as our transportation department. Things that aren't listed here like what goes on in our buildings every day. Our buildings have a budget that are built into these numbers uh that go to the day-to-day resources that are needed to to operate those buildings for for our staff and our students. So, when we
126look at the numbers and and what the total budget represents, you could guess that most of our budget over half of it goes to instructional related costs. Those are our regular education, our special education. Anything related to an instructional cost um makes up almost 54% of our budget. And then those other support services make up close to 32%. And those include our guidance services, our library services, our administrative services. So everything that touches our student and staff um not just in the classroom but outside of that is reflected in this budget as well. And then when you look at it from another lens, um the most of the uh costs in the budget go towards wages and salaries and employee benefits because we are a service-based organization. We need to provide staffing resources to educate
127the students of the district. Um and then we have other associated costs with the materials and um the buildings and grounds and everything else that goes into providing those educational services. So, this is just a snapshot of where we started and where we're at right now in the budget process. We started back in February with the preliminary budget at 4% tax increase with a $611,000 deficit. We were able to make some adjustments in March to reduce that deficit down to about $198,000. Um, we made some small adjustments because of the timing between our finance committee meeting and the last board meeting and having to prepare the proposed final budget. We did remove a a charter school subsidy that is not included in the governor's budget proposal for 2526 which would net a reduction in state
128funding for the district. And then just some small adjustments when we create our form that goes to the state. Um there's no cents involved. So the one the $1 and the $8 difference are all rounding adjustments that we have to make when we we create that. So, it did increase the deficit slightly, but as I stated before, we've identified some other adjustments which would narrow that deficit down to zero and then allow us to come under the 4% um which we'll be recommending at at next month's meeting for the uh final budget. So, where does our money come from to fund uh the resources that we need? So, we you know, we had a lot of discussion tonight about community. Looking at it from a different lens, I look at it from the community in
129the budget perspective that we fund almost 84% of our budget from local sources, mostly from our community. Um, and if you look at other school districts in our area, Lower Marian, Traiff, Easttown, um, upper Marian, they all have similar percentages as we do here in Rner. It's very indicative of southeastern Pennsylvania. Um but when you look at it from a statewide perspective, the statewide average is 51% locally funded. So you can see, you know, community is really important from a uh funding perspective as part of our budget. So some of the things that we talked about that are in the budget. This is our debt schedule for the new Ethan Elementary School. So, we've phased in with this budget all of the required debt to build the new Ethan Elementary School as we've currently have
130uh budgeted for the project. Um, so that required nearly $3.5 million. So, over the last two budgets, including the one coming up, um, we've phased in the debt service payments, and until we make those debt obligations, we're putting those resources back into our buildings for other improvements that have been identified through a feasibility study a number of years ago. So under act one we have a capacity it's called the ad one index that we can raise our taxes by every year our real estate taxes and this is just a snapshot of that historically act one was implemented in 2006. So this just shows and we've we've highlighted this at previous meetings that um you know over the last number of years we've come in under the act one index um in the last two years
131specifically coming in under the index while also phasing in a significant amount of debt towards the Ethan project as well as maintaining and enhancing everything that we've had programmatically and operationally across the district. I presented this at March's meeting and it's just again not to to point fingers at any of the other districts, but just to show from a um uh from a comparative standpoint where we stand on our millage rate um and what um a tax bill for a uh home that is worth or a property worth a million dollars in the district. Um what the tax bill would look like for that property owner. Um with with Rder being almost 82% uh residential tax base um you know comparatively we are lower than tradition east town and lower Marian on a comparative tax
132bill um equalized between the millage rates um and the common level ratio between each county. Um upper Marian does have a lower bill but you can see on the right um they only have a 40% residential tax base. they have much higher commercial tax base which helps them generate additional revenue as part of their budget. So this is a taxpayer impact slide that shows based on an assessed value at three different levels what um their current tax bill uh would look like for the 2425 year and then what those differences would be based on a 4% a 3.5% and a 3% tax increase. So looking at the average, the $730,613,000 number in the middle column, um if we would be at the index, the increase for that property owner would be $443. And then each
133percent that we would go under that is a $111 decrease. So those numbers are just showing illustratively um at different assessed values what a u um possible tax bill may look like um in July. So upcoming uh we have the approval tonight for the proposed final budget. Um we have deadlines to post and advertise that budget at our May 6th finance committee. We'll review the final budget which will then move forward uh to our May 27th meeting. And with that, I'll open it up if there's any questions from the board. Any questions? Surely Miss Solomon has question. Oh, surely I do. Um, first of all, I didn't get that presentation in my packet. I got something just the repeat of what we had in committee. We just updated it today, so it's posted. I'll get
134you a copy. Can I just please get a copy? Absolutely. What you presented tonight. Um, so I do not support this current budget as presented. Um, and I've stated this throughout the entire budget process. I think a 4% overall increase is too much to ask of our a, as you've so clearly stated, of our taxpayers. We are almost 84% locally funded by homeowners. Um, and we all know the economic uncertainty that is occurring in our economy right now. the stock market is bouncing around, you know, several percentages up and down, usually down. Um, and I don't think that saddling our community with this kind of an increase is prudent. And I'll tell you why. because I was on this board back in 2009 when we had the economic downturn and we were sitting here with
135labor contracts in with 12 different unit unions that were at a 5% increase rolling along happily and all of a sudden act one was at less than 1%. and we were required to cut positions in the district and tighten our belt and it was painful. And I vowed never to be on a board that had to cut positions. Were prudent when we add teaching positions. We do it for a reason. We have a ratio of how many students in in each grade level per class. We have um contingency teaching positions. If there should be a bump in a large grade, we can add another teacher. I don't want to be in the position where we're having contracts that are around 4% because that's what this budget allows for. We're also building a new elementary school
136and I want to tell you we do not have any of the contracts. It has not gone out for bid. What do you think is going to happen when you're building what is already a $75 million elementary school and you don't have any of your contracts back? So, there's going to be tariffs on steel. There's going to be tariffs on all the inputs to that building. I don't know what that price tag is going to be. I think that we need So what I've learned I've been on the board for 16 years is that the best way to fund school a school district prudently and fairly to everyone so students get what they need but fairly to taxpayers as well so people can afford to live in our community and take advantage of our school
137is to cons to be consistent. So, I would like to see, and I've said this all along, and there's differences of opinion, but I would like to see this budget more around 3% more reflecting what I think is fair to everyone involved in this, that we're thinking, considering the people who are paying for this, but also the needs of the district. And I think it's just better to have um a consistent flow of income. So if we go to 4% now the forecasts are that back so act one is based roughly on what they think um inflation is going to be. Do any of you want to really forecast inflation with the economy the way it is right now? So I think that the best thing to do knowing that most of our expenses are
138tied up in labor contracts that are usually four or fiveyear contracts. The best thing to do is to stick at a very reasonable 3% moving forward. The forecasts were that the act one index is going to come down. I've seen it come radically down. When when the economy is volatile like this, we don't know what that's going to look like. And I would hate to see us get embroiled in long-term contracts that we can't support. At the same time, we're trying to build a new school where we don't have any of our contracts um have not gone out for bid. I just it's it's much too risky to me. So, I do not support a 4% um budget for next year. I've said that consistently. Um, and so I'm hoping that the final budget that
139comes back next month is um, a little bit more conservative and I think a little bit more um, what I would call risk averse to what's actually going on in the economy. And those are my opinions and everybody is entitled to what they believe. I saw Miss Stern raise her hand next. Thank you. So well the what the rebuttal. Yeah, kind of the Well, so Lydia, you and I have served together for now almost 12 years because I'm this is I'm in my 12th year on the board and we've done a lot of budgets together and your message has been very consistent and I really I do appreciate and respect it. Mr. Pollen, could you put up the one slide that shows the difference between the I think it's the Thank you. This is this
140is the one. Yes. So I I do want to give a little bit of context because although I too hope that in the next month the final budget comes back slightly under 4%. I am prepared to support the 4% um budget. Uh regretfully I wish that we could u you know have things be cost us lower. As Mr. Pauling pointed out 84% of our budget does come from the local tax base. We are horribly underfunded at the federal level um particularly and at the state level in education. It's that is that is not going to change. You are right. It is not going to change. I actually feel like we're at a really important juncture right now given the uncertainty. I think that the community is depending on us to maintain the quality of the
141schools and maintain the quality and the value of your homes. um that has been consistently something that Rner is known for is a high quality education and it is reflected in the value of our homes. It does come at a cost and I I wish that the federal government um supported us more. We get less than a million dollars from the federal government. Um I don't see that particular dynamic changing anytime soon is the reality. Uh but what I would like to point out here and I think it's an important piece of information and it's the reason that although I also hope that some numbers change in the next few weeks and that we can have a final uh budget that is slightly below 4%. The difference in any one taxpayers's pocket is I think
142as much as uh depending on the assessed value of your home it could be a hundred or $150 difference the difference between three and 4%. The difference in the aggregate, however, throughout the entire township is the difference between closing our budget um and having a balanced budget, which we are required to have, or not having a balanced budget, except for a small amount. Right, Mr. Pauling? If you could pull up the sheet that shows that. Um, I think it's a really important time right now for us to um to plan for what could be inevitable cuts at the federal level, what could be what is an uncertain time with regard to uh the tariffs and what's going to happen with Ethan Elementary. Um, you know, we have a building that we identified three years ago
143that needs to be replaced. The needs of those children in the building are not going to go away. It's just they're not. And I'm I'm really there is no one up here who wants to be raising taxes. I promise you there is no one up here who wants to be raising taxes. But I do feel a responsibility right now to preserve um a highquality education here in Radner. And I guess we'll get more to what else my values are about um Radner in a future agenda item. But right now I'm speaking about my values as they relate to the budget. And um I think if Mr. Moore is still in the room and I can't see if he is. I have actually um um thought about him often um because he and I right now
144you know he used to talk about when we have the opportunity to raise taxes um is that the prudent thing to do because in a year or two if the act one index goes down and I'm not able to raise taxes as much as I need we could regretfully find ourselves in a situation as it relates to cuts which gets to the next thing I do want to say I have served on almost every negotiations uh committee that has been in my time on the board. I've negotiated most every collective bargaining agreement, which means our unions um over the last few years. I promise you, I'm not talking about 4% tax um 4% raises. I am not I am not having conversations uh with the administration and we are not having conversations with the union
145about raising um the the um the contracts at 4% because they're right, we can't afford it and I wish that we could. I want to say that to every member of every bargaining unit. I wish we could and we will find ourselves in a financial hole that we will not be able to dig ourselves out of because I do believe that Miss um Solomon is right. the index will go down and it will hamper our ability to raise taxes and it will make it hard for us to meet our contract obligations which are about 78% of our budget. Um so I I have both sides of those financial pieces going on in my mind every time I sit down at the table to talk talk about a budget and to talk about a collective bargaining
146agreement. Um, what I can promise you is that every time I sit down, I try really hard to think, as all of us do, really hard to try to balance those things. And I I wish that we had um uh a federal government that supported education uh more than they do right now. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. So, I will support this and I hope some numbers change slightly. Thank you. Okay. I promise I will get to this side of the room, but I saw Miss Lao next. Thank you. Um I also echo a lot of Miss Stern's comments um you know and I appreciate Mr. Polling for bringing back that quote that I love um at the beginning um because I think it helps remind us all to reframe the budget
147as something that's a positive rather than just a negative and a hit to our pocketbooks because the budget is what allows us to achieve the things that are important to us, right? Um, if you could put the slide back to the debt service table. Um, you know, to me this is a big driver, right? Um, I mean, obviously the biggest driver are wages and salaries for our teachers and their benefits, which I think we can all agree that they are our most important resource, right? So, we're going to do that. And honestly, pensions, that's hugely out of our control. And um, but we're going to honor those commitments. So, that's like 80% of our budget. So, you know, we're talking about relative to that, all of these other items are, you know, not quite as
148significant. But another significant item that we've decided to take on is building a new Ethan Elementary. Um and if anyone has been paying attention to our facilities um committee meetings, you know, our committee has done this analysis years ago and you know we came to the conclusion, not me personally, but the committee um came to the conclusion that it's actually the most prudent course of action is to build a new elementary school because it will be much more costly to our township and to our taxpayers in the long run to continue to patch, you know, and and maintain are are the state of that building. Um so you know that is what it is. You know if we believe that we need to build the new elementary school we need to phase in which I
149think the administration has done very carefully and very responsibly. You need to phase in the debt service obligations. And you know we we started doing this a couple years ago and quite frankly even to take it down from 4% to 3% I would imagine Mr. calling would create a whole lot of uh rejooing um on your part, right? You would have to rethink a lot. It'd be the kicking the can down the road metaphor. Yes. Which we did for a lot of years. We you know, so but every time you kick the can down the road, the problem just gets worse, right? So I think we as a board have decided we're not going to be the board to kick the can down the road anymore. So that's why we're kind of undertaking this endeavor.
150And then um just to Miss Solomon's point about the act one index and I agree no one has a crystal ball you know no one can forecast you know entirely accurately where it's going to go. Um, but the scenario that you referenced back in 2009 when it dropped all the way down to 1%, that's exactly the scenario we're trying to avoid here, right? Because if you come in lower than you need to during these years, then if it does drop, then we lack the ability to make up for that shortfall and you might end up having to take drastic action like, you know, widespread layoffs. And just a correction, the act one index is not just an inflationary measure. It's actually a combination of two factors. It's an inflationary index plus um it's an index
151as to um what economic experts um expect employee wages to rise by. So it's a combination of those two factors and they're both weighted equally. So economic experts literally are telling us that they expect employee wages to rise by this amount. And therefore your point about whether we can expect Radner residents to bear whether they can bear this increase like economic experts are actually telling us yes like they can they actually expect you know employees to be able to bear a 5% increase. If I can just finish. So um you know I I trust I'm not an economic expert. Um I tend to trust the experts in their areas of expertise. So you know I agree even they can't predict for sure but they can sure do it better than I can. Um so I
152I'm willing to rely on the expert judgment of the people who published the act one index. I'm also inclined to rely on the, you know, the judgment of our administration in terms of how we can responsibly meet our debt obligations, maintain our stellar credit rating, and deliver on the excellent experience that includes a new elementary school, but just generally speaking for our Rner students. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Lao. You're okay. Okay. Who has a I mean I would echo everything Miss Laos just said. Um and and to be clear the the 4% and hopefully as Miss Stern said slightly under over the next two weeks. I know you're working on that but that that is really a maintenance budget with recognition that we're taking on Ethan, but that's over the years. So you've Yeah,
153we when we develop this budget, the administrative team and I we, you know, we work over a number of months to go through the budget and make sure that, you know, anything uh that's in there has good justification to be in there. So this isn't just something like we get to the end of the road and say, "Oh, now we've got to we've got to fix this." So this is a uh conscious decisions that we make through the budget process to get us here. And when we get to this point, when we do start talking about, you know, landing at a final number, you we may have to start talking about a reduction of services um to get that number lower. Um there's not a whole lot of fluff in what we do, but with
154uh this budget and I think it was mentioned like you know we we have an obligation to the community to maintain the high standards of the educational experience that we give here on top of balancing our AAA credit rating and and building a new elementary school. So, it's there there's a lot of different factors and balls in the air um when we put this together. And so, we're very conscious as an administrative team to make sure that we're balancing all of those things along with, you know, not overburdening our our community as part of the process. And thank you. I and I appreciate that. And then like Miss Lao said, we're maintaining our credit r rating which actually has benefit to us when we borrow our money. So, you know, I I thank you for
155really managing our budget um so skillfully that we are in this, you know, good position. And I the only thing I'd add is that, you know, we talk about MT saying the federal government contribute more. You know, Pennsylvania is no prince on this front. I mean, we are one of the lowest contribution states to public education. So, um you know, the burden they based on the way they um fund um our public schools, the burden is on the local residents. And and just to kind of add to that, I think it ranks 47th in the state, right? I mean, in the country, 47th for their contribution to um local education. And if you look at our 15 and a half% of revenue from state sources, half of that is our reimbursement for payroll fringe benefit
156taxes. So the other half of that is basic subsidy, special education, transportation. So this just to conceptualize that 15% half of it is a reimbursement for costs of pension and social security taxes. So the full-on contribution from the state is closer to 8%. Yeah, the the real number. Yeah, that's helpful to understand. Um well, and I thank you again. I the piece I was going to ask was the maintenance. I think you know that actually Mrs. Solomon is one of your lines most years the is this a maintenance budget? Um you know we're not out buying something extravagant. I I do think it's important to remind and I I know you think like this but sometimes when times are good we we do a lot of extra little things and I do think it's time
157you know the same way most of us are doing at home to say gosh it's time to tighten our belts and maybe we need to think about you know waste here or how much do we really need this and you know little things right everything you print it's paper and ink and wear and tear on a copier I mean it seems silly but and I don't think we're doing nearly as much of that as we used to Um, and I recognize I'm part of the problem with my b my paper binder. Um, but maybe that's the incentive I need, right? It look, I I actually return all the materials and the supplies and the binder clips to the district office to be reused. Um, but I, you know, we can all do more. Um, and
158our community can do more in the buildings. Um, it seems like pennies, but we'd much rather save pennies now than lose a teacher later. Um, I think all of us can agree on that. Um, can I just ask a question? I was surprised by the 28% of our budget that goes to um, benefits and it shouldn't have surprised me, but this year it just struck me. Yeah. 28.3. Is that because is that where pasers falls in there? Okay. So, a lot of that's the retirement fund. And so, this is the trickery of it. We we have the full expense of those costs. This is the accounting of it. So, the full amount of the costs for pension, social security are in the employee benefits as well as what we offer from medical, dental, um, long-term
159disability, prescription benefits. And then half of that is netted back as that revenue from the state. So, it shows in full on the expense side, it's really netted half on the revenue side to what the actual cost is. Okay. Yeah. The total number didn't strike me, but this I was looking I was like, that's more than half the cost of the wages. Yeah. So, I I appreciate that clarification. Yep. And the pension rate being 34% it's been exacerbated over the last 15 years when that number was under 5% and now is at 34%. Okay. I think the clarification for the community it's not that we have Cadillac health care plans for our teachers and staff and it's not that they do fine but it's it's not like we're being overly generous in that situation and
160and that pension obligation is required. So, we have no choice on how much we the rate is set and we are obligated to pay that. I'm not sure. I promise. Um, okay. So, then the the last question I had and I I know I'm not going to manage to pin you to a number because I I know you well enough. When you say you're going to come in under four, can we manage expectations for people who've sat through this in the audience, but also for the board? Are we talking 3.95 like last year, or are we talking you might make it down to 3.5? I'd say 35 is probably a little aggressive. I'd say somewhere under 39. Okay. Yeah, we should be under 39. I mean, and and I think we saw this, right? It's
161not a huge number in terms of an increase from last year, but I think everyone appreciates we pay very high taxes in RNER for the benefits we get. So, every little different, every little dollar makes a dollar. Every dollar is another dollar we have to earn. Yeah. Yeah. It it is. I hear it. Um, any other comments or can we vote on this? Okay, I'm gonna call the vote. All those in favor say I. Okay, I have 8 to one. All those in favor say all those opposed say nay. My opposed is Miss Solomon. Um, okay. The next item on the agenda is something we typically would do in um a consent agenda, but Miss Solomon always has to pull it, so you don't need to vote on this. You're not going to abstain. You're
162going to abstain from this vote anyway. This is the resolution to appoint a school board member to the Delaware County Intermediate Unit board. Um the action the proposed recommended action is that the following candidate be recommended to serve on the DCIU board of directors for a term commencing on July 1st, 2025 and ending on June 30th, 2028. Administration is requesting that Dr. Andrew Babson be appointed as a candidate to serve as a member of the Delaware County Intermediate Unit Board of Directors for a term commencing on July 1, 2025 and ending on June 30th, 2028. Do I have a motion? So moved. Thank you, Miss Stern. Do I have a second? Thank you, Mr. Thornton. Um, do we need any conversation about this? Thank you. No. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Dr. Babson, for volunteering. Um,
163my pleasure. Okay. Can I All those in favor say I. Okay. I have eight in favor. And Miss Solomon has to abstain as an employee. She's just absent from the vote cuz she's not on I've abstained as well. Oh, no. Why did you You don't have to vote. Okay. Yeah, we're going to go 80. Miss Dun, she because she's just absent from the day. She's just not a part of the vote. Okay. No, you're you may vote for yourself. Um, next item on the agenda, 8.03, approval of the return of the following books to the Rner High School Library. Gender Queer by Maya Kbab. I may have said that wrong. Uh, Blankets by Craig Thompson and Funhome by Allison Bechal. So, the recommended action is I don't need to read both of these. Which one
164do you want me to read? Whichever. Okay. The recommended action is that the board approve the return of the following books to the high school library. Gender Queer by Maya Cobe, Blankets by Craig Thompson, and Funhome by Allison Beal. So moved. Thank you, Miss Stern. May I have a second? Second. A second from Miss Laauo. Um before we start, usually I just kick it off and let everybody have conversation. I wanted to just clarify a couple things that I've heard in public comments repeatedly and just kind of lay some groundwork here. Um so first I want to apologize to the community that we haven't had this conversation before you earlier. Um we had an unfortunate confluence of events. The three of us had to miss the March meeting. um and a couple other people had
165to participate remotely. That doesn't really foster good conversation and it looks um inappropriate for a small portion of the board to make a decision that's clearly so important to so much of the community. Um so I apologize that we were unable to talk about this last month. Um I also want to clarify just there have been some people say, you know, this person removed it, the board removed. These books were properly removed under a policy that has been in place since 2008 by a dulyapp appointed um ad hoc committee. Um to our knowledge the policy was followed and I think it was followed in good faith. I don't think anyone here is questioning that but I've heard it sometimes and I just want to be very clear that's not the spirit in which the board
166is having this conversation. Um, also I think I think the fact that we're having this conversation, I don't think we think they were banned. They were removed from the library and we want to have a conversation about what the community believes um and what the board believes belongs in the library. Um, there was one public comment towards the end that said that the failure to have these books in the library is a harm to a curriculum item. The class in which that book is used, it's used as an optional book on a list. that um assignment was actually already handled earlier in the year. So there's no harm to the students in that class specific to being able to borrow a book for that paper. Um that was Mr. Rosen mentioned that. Um, and I
167I also want to clarify, I know this came up um I think it's come up a couple times, but I want to confirm for the public um that our council has confirmed that these books the images in these books do not constitute pornography. Um, and fi that doesn't it doesn't mean they belong in the book library. I just want to say that like that's that's a baseline we're going to go with. Um and finally I I just want to say this you're going to hear um I don't think it's a heated discussion. It's passionate. Um a lot of people on this board I think most of us have read the books. I went out and had to buy two of them because I didn't want to wait till the library books got circulated. Um and
168I had read one of them already before. We're going to have a conversation and then there are some people I I believe there's at least one board member who wants to raise an issue of perhaps moving this um dis the vote to a later date. I would ask that you have all been such great members of the public and you've been so respectful in everything you've done. I would ask that you give the board the grace to have these conversations. I have asked that before anything be tabled or delayed or a motion be brought for that that the full board be able to discuss the issue before us because I think we owe it to you as a community having delayed this a month to to have that conversation. I want to thank all of
169you for coming to repeated meetings. People who aren't here who've brought opposing points of view I want to thank them as well. I think it's important for all of us to have earnest and respectful conversation in this community. So thank you all for coming. Thank you all for sitting through our other business. Um, and now I'm going to kick it off. Um, anybody have a preference? Anybody want to start? Oh, so I Well, I have a motion and a second already. So now I'm just opening the floor to conversation. Miss L Solomon, you want to? Sure. I will kick this off. Um so I have put a great deal of thought into this um the discussion about these books gender queer funhouse and blankets. Um I have read all these books um and I think
170it's time that we respond to the committee on this. It would have been my preference as Miss Dunn stated to do this at the last meeting. Um, however, out of really a professional courtesy to my fellow board members, there were only four of us in attendance, I was one of them. I didn't think it was fair to have that conversation with five of the members not being present. So, um, unfortunately, yeah, you were virtual. But, um, anyway, so here we are today. Um, so I want to make it clear, this is my opinion, first of all, that the administration and the committee that they convened did their job according to the schoolboard policy. Um, and so I don't want anyone to take any notion that there was anyone at fault. It's also really important to
171me to say that I voice my full support for our librarians in this district. I have so much respect for them. Um I think they were put in a really unfair position and so I think it's really important that as a board member I tell you how much I support you and I respect what you do and I think you do an exemplary job and this was a tough spot to put you guys in. [Music] Um so I'm going to take this conversation in a little bit different direction than a lot of the public comment tonight. So first of all, I am assuming positive intent on everyone involved in this process. And what I mean by that is that I'm assuming positive intent on the part of people that are putting forth challenges to these
172books. I don't know them. So these are my assumptions. I think that they're trying to make an attempt to protect the innocence of children. I'm going to tell you why I don't think that that is the correct way to achieve that goal. Okay. So, first of all, we know enough about child psychology to know that if teenagers hear that there is a controversy involving a book or a series of books, that's the book they're going to want to read. So if you if your goal in this was to try to, you know, keep this material away from young people, you totally failed by this exercise. So, and I don't mean to make light of it, but truly this is just made these like on the number one Radner reading list. So, um, didn't work that
173way if that was what they wanted to do. Okay. So, um I believe one of our students stated in the policy committee last month that um you know the these aren't the most explicit uh sexual content that they've seen by time our students are in high school. And you know, this is just maybe very unfortunate for our society, but they have seen so much more explicit violent and sexual content than these graphic novels. I I just don't believe um that these are shocking to high school students. Unfortunately, these are drawings. Um so that's my opinion. So to me the complex topics discussed in these books outweigh you know any argument about the distastefulness of the drawings in these books. I read these books. I thought they were really valuable. It's my understanding that these are
174award-winning books. These are memoirs. So these are courageous people that were willing to tell their story of coming of age. So these are coming of age memoirs. What could be more valuable to um young people than this is the you know experience of um just another person. So there is value in exposing teenagers to this type of literature. The authors are grappling with complex topics which teenagers should do. Questions about religion and questions about their sexuality. And so what better way to explore that than through literature. Okay. I'm specifically going after the challenges in the challenges to these books. The challenge was put forward to um the superintendent. So one of the things in the challenge I believe or this was part of the discussion anyway was that these these books are age inappropriate. And
175I just want to say to you, there's students in our high school through age 22. So those are adults and so it's totally appropriate for adults to have access to this material. Okay. I also believe it was stated in the challenge that these books are grooming students for sexual abuse. So I want to explore that idea because that was put forth in the challenge. Um and so some of the things I might say might be disturbing to some people in this audience. So according to the National Center for Victims of Crimes, one in five girls and one in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse. Excuse me. Of child abuse. This includes Excuse me. This includes physical, sexual, and emotional abuse. I I need to correct that. One in five girls and one
176in 20 boys is a victim of child abuse, which includes child sexual abuse. Okay. Then within that subset, discussing child sexual abuse explicitly, which is what grooming would be referring to. According to RAIN, which is the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, and that's the largest um anti-exual violence organization, one in nine girls and one in 20 boys under the age of 18 experience sexual abuse or assault. So these are horrifying statistics that should upset and concern everyone here about the welfare of our children. However, that is the reality of what they are experiencing. So if we want to help protect children from abuse, I believe that one thing we can do is to arm them with information. Because one of the weapons of child sexual predators is secrecy. They tell the child that they're
177very special and that the child should not tell anyone about their special secrets. Well, I believe that access to these books can help children understand the behavior of a predator. So, by allowing students access to these books, you are actually arming the child with information that they need to to protect themselves. the child can discuss the or the student can discuss the content of the book with a trusted adult. So by allowing these books in circulation, you're increasing a child's efficacy in dealing with a very serious situation in our society. So to keep students uninformed about the occurrence of child sexual abuse is not in a child's best interest. So I believe that we need to provide our students with access to this type of information. So these are just some of the reasons that
178I believe that these books should be returned to the library. And um I'm just going to touch on this briefly. I have a slightly different view of the policy because I do support the idea that parents should have the ability to challenge materials in the library. um th this policy and there's a bit of a misinformation about that too. We did look at this policy in 2013. Um we adopted a whole bunch of policies from PSBA. Um and so when we looked at it, we adopted that policy. Granted, that was a long time ago. It probably definitely needs to be looked at, but I don't have so much of a problem with that policy because I think parents should have that ability. I just had a really real problem with the outcome of this particular
179process and so we are taking the time now um I hope to correct that. So those are um my opinions on this and I will firmly support putting those books back in the library for those reasons. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Solomon, for breaking the ice. Who's next? Go ahead, Miss Low. Thank you. Um, I honestly don't have much to add beyond um the public comments that we've heard tonight and at the many previous meetings during the past several months. um which were just so thoughtful, informed, sincere. Um you know, and to me it just meant that democracy is alive and well, at least in RER Township. And I was just so heartened by this ground swell of people who cared enough, right, to spend hours on a week night um to come before us
180and share their opinions and their thoughts um in a very civil and respectful manner. Um, and I especially, um, enjoyed and appreciated hearing the perspectives of those of you who spoke from your own, um, unique lived experiences, especially our young people, our actual current students at Rner High School and Middle School. Um, so you know, to me, you know, everything felt really sincere and authentic and not at all orchestrated by some extreme left-wing organization like Red Wine and Blue. Um, I think like their name says they actually enjoy getting together to drink wine together. So, I don't know how that can be extreme. Um so so for me um you know at the same time you know I want to thank the ad hoc the members of the ad hoc committee for their service and
181their work a lot of whom are were volunteers um it was not an easy task um that we um asked them to take on and I like Miss Solomon um and am inclined to impute the best of intentions to everyone involved because good people can disagree and And that's actually the heart of our democracy. And to one of the public commenters tonight who said this is more about, you know, more than it's it's about more than just these three books, right? Like I do think it's about something bigger than that. It's about kind of a fundamental core tenant of our democracy, which is the free exchange of ideas. And um you know and I just would urge everyone to continue to extend that grace and benefit of of the doubt no matter what the outcome
182is tonight. Um you know and that you continue to respectfully disagree if if um there are others who have different opinions. Um but you know I was going to kind of base my remarks on my own lived experience and training as a lawyer and a former English major in college. Um, but I think, you know, hopefully we've settled the legal question. It's not just our own solicitor, but you know, I I think Rner Township Police and the District Attorney of Delaware County actually agree that it's also not child pornography. Um, because otherwise, you know, the police report that was you or that, you know, they filed I think they would have acted upon that if they agreed with that legal interpretation. Um I won't go into my own legal interpretation of that but um you
183know but the Supreme Court test um actually it's not for pornography but it's for obscenity. Um it's the three-part test and um Mr. Rosen previously mentioned that um one of the factors is whether the work is entirely devoid of literary, artistic, educational or political merit. And I read these books they are astonishing works of art. And it actually reminded me of my own high school experience when I read Mouse the Survivor's Tale for the first time. And this was back in 1992, I think. Um, when graphic novels were not yet kind of broadly accepted as like respected works of art. They were still derided as comic books and um cartoons. And I remember going to an interview with my dream college. I was a junior, I guess, at the time or senior. and it was
184with an alum of the school and he asked me what was the last book that you read and I was honest. I told him about mouse and he had never heard of it and I immediately regretted it because the look of skepticism on his face he was like so the last book you read was a comic book about the Holocaust and I just was like oh my god I'm never getting in. I'm never getting in. Um so I tried to explain to him why this is actually a serious book. Um, thankfully I still got into my dream school, but I remember just, you know, like I was stressed because, you know, I had a hard time defending and and articulating to him why I enjoyed the book so much and how why I thought it
185was an incredible book. He was very skeptical. Um, but to me, you know, these books rival that in terms of, you know, I agree with, um, the previous commenters, you know, the images, um, the art elevate the message that these books are trying to convey because they're difficult messages. They're challenging. They're complex. Um, and you know, just like they do in mouse, like to me, it's the confluence of the words and and the pro, you know, and the and the images on on on the pages that make them so evocative, um, affecting, um, moving. So, I I can't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that they lack literary merit or artistic merit. I mean, they're incredible works of art. So, you know, to me, you know, I just want to reiterate, I also
186respect the work of the committee. You know, my vote will be in no way a judgment on them. We can disagree. It's totally fine. Um, but I just wanted to share kind of where I was coming from. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Laauo. Mr. Thornton. Yeah. Thank you. Um, a lot of what's been said tonight I completely agree with. Um, someone specifically said that they were appalled by the idea of book banning and I totally agree with that. Um, I think there's been some really fair criticism about our processes. Uh, and I I think it's an opportunity that we've committed to to improving. I've read all three of the books. I don't think that we should have considered them together. I think that was one of the the criticisms uh because that starts to attract
187attention to the overall issue. Um I think Funh Home specifically has vocabulary that I was looking up almost every page. So I think there's a lot of value and I do not think the books should be out of the library. My concern is that this is not the end of this and if we make a decision today that just puts the books back into the library that we may be susceptible and opening ourselves to problems down the road. I think it's crucial that we follow a deliberate meaningful path to getting these books back in the library. Tonight it would feel great to put these books back in the library but I think we might have problems down the road and that's what I wanted to avoid. Mr. Thornton, can I ask you before you move
188on, what problems you think you we would have? Because I'm just I know we heard in policy last month, and I'm not trying to interrupt every I just want to make sure people understand. I know we heard in policy, we have full authority to do this now. Absolutely. I we certainly have full authority. I think when you find a decision that you disagree with and the board just changes it, I think that can lead to uh a president down the road. Just because this board looks like this today, it may not look like this four years from now, six years from now. But we're setting up a president where it's okay to say, "Hey, we didn't like that. We're just going to change it." And I think it's imperative to change the processes and procedures
189to solidify that change. Thank you, Mr. Stern. Um, so I echo um many of the comments thanking the committee. I I believe the process was followed. Um I didn't serve on the committee. So it is not my place to opine on the work that they did. I was not part of that work. I'm being asked tonight to make a different consideration to to um give a different thought. And I really want to thank you, Miss Dunn, for um clarifying, you know, the the board did not remove these books. a process that is was uh that occurred under the policy under my watch, our watch as a board removed these books. And um I'm grateful actually that we're going that we've had an opportunity to have some really thoughtful, robust discussions about that policy. And I
190actually think this process, although it's been very painful for people and I'm regretful of that, um I think it's going to land us on a policy that is going to best serve our community and its values. Uh my feelings, uh my thoughts on whether or not to take action tonight have evolved over time. Um there was a public comment who referenced uh I made a public comment last month where I felt pretty strongly we should uh address the policy, make a change to the policy and then circle back to consider these books. And my thinking on that has evolved primarily because of the conversation we had in our policy committee meeting last month where uh or earlier this month when we were able to clarify that um I already have the authority as a board
191member to reinstate these books back into the library. I don't need to change a policy to do that. I have that authority under school code. And after serving on the board for 12 years, um, and I I guess that's twice tonight. We've referenced our long tenure, Lydia. Um, you know, I've seen some things. Um, I've been through some things on this board. Six weeks after I joined the board, I voted for full day kindergarten. Y that that was that was 12 years ago, folks. And I know that there are students in the audience who went to full day kindergarten. And there are parents who probably came to those meetings and voiced their opinion. Uh to your point, Miss Laauo, that was democracy. But the reason I'm saying that is there are there have been times
192on this board where it was really important that I take a stand and make my beliefs known because there was a community that voted me into office based on what they believed my beliefs were. And this is one of those moments for me where it's important that I just state my beliefs because you you elected me to represent your beliefs and if you don't agree with me, you should not vote for me. I have said that many times over the years. Um so the books belong in the library. Now the reason that they belong in the library for me uh predominantly comes from that we have professional librarians who we wrote a policy and said we give it to you to to and task you with the responsibility to curate and cultivate a library uh
193collection that reflects the needs of that building. And I would never expect the library at one of our elementary schools to look anything like the library at our middle school or our high school. It's why we have we are blessed to have five qualified librarians and five five librarian library collections. And so first and foremost um you know our librarians evaluated these books and they found literary merit. Now I have subsequently read all three books and I say this as a person who does not like graphic novels. I really don't like graphic novels and still I was able to appreciate the literary value of these books. And as Mr. Rosen is still here, I think I could even write an English paper about why he selected that book for his English class. Because like Mr.
194Thornton. I needed to look up some words and it was about one of the most difficult literary works I've I've read in a long time. And I could really appreciate why that book was selected as a supplemental book. And I don't like graphic novels at all. Um, but I trust their judgment and I believe in that process of library selection on their part. And um and I'm not going to be the person that over but that that thinks I know better than our professionals. But the community asked for my opinion. So I'm going to say I understand the literary value of those books and I think they are very mature and very graphic novels. They are very graphic and they are not appropriate for our elementary or our middle school libraries. And guess what? They're
195not there. They're in the library that serves the students who are facing those really difficult life challenges. And my family is full of all the colors of the rainbow. I got them all. I got I have gay, I have trans, I have non-binary. I have all the colors of the rainbow in my big Irish Catholic family and they need to feel value and they need to feel worth and the way they feel that is to see themselves expressed in literature. And so for those parents who I will also give the positive uh uh uh aspersions to their reasons for the challenges that have come before us. They only want, you know, the best for their children and the best for all children. And so I'm going to choose to see that in there, but I'm
196going to respectfully disagree when it comes to these books. And I'm going to say something else. Books are not the problem if you're worried about children. This is the problem if you're worried about children. Yes, I'm holding up my cell phone. Social media is the problem. If you're worried about your children's well-being, their 24-hour access to the internet is the problem. If you're worried about your children's well-being, it's not books. there's not a study. And I asked some professional people in this community whose judgment and and um background and experience I really respect. I said, are there any studies that show that books cause anxiety and depression in students in in kids? And the answer is no. There are studies that show not being represented in the literature you read causes anxiety and depression and
197stress. There are studies that show that reading books that challenge your ideas and your thoughts and that make you uncomfortable grow your empathy, but the books themselves are not the problem. So, I'm I'm I believe the books belong back in our library and given the information that I got from our solicitor la uh two weeks ago that I already had the authority to place these books back in the the library. Although my original thinking was that we should revise the policy fully. Um, now that we are considering, at least the committee is considering sending forth a policy that won't even have a challenge option. They actually specifically asked our solicitor, if we don't have a challenge, then we're not going to have an appeal, how would we maybe be able to consider placing these books
198back in the library? And he said, you already have that authority. So, I feel like tonight was the night the nine of us are here. The community is asking us to vote. They certainly asked us for our opinion. So, now you heard mine. And um I I no longer feel the need to wait. And Mr. Thornton to your point which I think is a really valid one. Um I think that um the the current policy if if we were to have another challenge, the current policy doesn't provide a timeline for us to take up another challenge. So I think that should that happen, I would I would respectfully ask our board leadership to get guidance from our solicitor. What would be the appropriate way to proceed? And I think that there will be a very
199appropriate way for us to proceed. But I I think we need to to put a rest to this because one of the other things I learned um going through full day kindergarten um masking and our change to the mascot was sometimes you just have to take a vote and and respect the vote and move on. And the this is our first opportunity to vote. So I assure everyone in the community and this board, however this vote goes tonight, you know, I will respect it. I won't be looking to undo or overdo. I will respect it even if I disagree with it because that's what it means to take a vote and move on. But I just for me tonight is the night to do that. I don't really feel the need to prolong this and
200to continue to ask or to continue to expect that community members will come out um and and share their very heartfelt comments. And I most especially thank the students who have who have and and the the people who have shared their personal stories. um of of their experiences and I'm really grateful that you did that. It it it is the point of why memoirs are written. Um people want to have want to bear witness to their life. That's the point of a memoir and it's not for me to stand in judgment of if it was the right story. Um it was a story that had meaning and it resonates for people and that's they belong back in the library. [Applause] I'm gonna start down at this end. Does anybody want to start? Go ahead, M.
201I can't say that I I don't agree with any of the things that you that you've said. Um the first thing that I do want to acknowledge though is is um all of the people that came out for public comment. Um it was I I want to express my empathy for them. Um the last thing that we want to do as schoolboard members is to cause any distress among any of the students. Um it's it was not our intent. It was not the intent of the original policy. Um we all recognize that it's flawed. It needs to get changed. Um, I do agree with Miss Stern that that 144 should be split that we keep the um the weeding process to the librarians. And by the way, I am in support of um giving the
202authority to the librarians and the and the administration on what books get selected for the librarians. If anyone has ever been on a committee that hires people in Radner knows how rigorous that process is and we have really really talented talented staff. Um we're lucky we have that. So so that's you know that was one um really another important thing that I do want to emphasize. Not just the librarians in the high school but the middle school and the elementary school librarians also. Let's leave the let's leave those to the professionals. We as a school board member, we're we're guided by policy. We're we're here to make sure that the that our processes are are followed correctly and accurately. Um and so I do my my concern in that if we you know, and by
203the way, yes, I think we're in alignment. I'm hearing that we're in alignment. Um we believe that the the books should be put back in the library. Um when those books get put back is the concern that I have. So if they get put back today, there is no reason why they can't be challenged again. I do feel that it would be it would be in the best interest if we do wait until the policy is done and there you know I I can't say for sure how it's going to end up. Um I would be in favor of of creating a policy that doesn't give a mechanism for a challenge. I think what was really concerning through this process is the amount of time that our administration has devoted and committed to this process
204to making sure that it's it's going to be effective and um and adhere to our our mission statement. Um and again, the last thing we want to do is to cause any distress, especially among the students. But the silver lining in all of that is that we're you know we're committed to changing this policy for all of you. Um there is there is I do have to I do have to give credit to one public commenter tonight and what he expressed in what the true danger is um in our schools. So thank you for that. Um I think that that's an important thing to remember as we go through this. So, it's been it's been really really hard and it's been hard for the librarians and I and I'm sorry for that. Um I hope
205that you know, however it ends up tonight um whether we do it now or whether we do it on hopefully by six uh June 10th um and have the policy approved by then. I hope that that we can create something that that really can comes back to our mission statement with the sense of belonging. Thank you, Miss Girtton. Um I'm 100% Oh, on your mic. I'm 100% sure that I cannot be as eloquent as my colleagues up here. Um but I'm going to give it a try. Um, first of all, um, I feel at the top of all the things that I'm feeling. I feel really, really proud of our community, um, over the last two months that we've been, um, considering this topic. I've been asked to think about things that I wouldn't have
206thought about. And over those two months, we've heard some incredible um stories, personal stories, comments, and just just starting with the students. Um we live in a pretty amazing place and our professionals in this school district are top-notch and we are seeing this in real time and we're seeing democracy actually at work. Um Mr. Frolic, you said it may not seem like a big thing. It actually is a big thing and it starts here. And I think that here in this um community, we're seeing firsthand that our voices really matter. And I believe that to honor those voices and to honor our professionals and our community. Um I mean even the even the budget conversation, you see how wellrun everything is here. Um, I think that we need to give it the time to honor
207it by vetting a policy so we have strong footing to say definitively these books belong back in the library. Um, my favorite place, if anyone's ever been to New York City and been to the Strand bookstore, there's a table right on the first floor which is band books. I go right there. I'm always so curious as you know what in our past predecessors thought was worth banning. Um and I don't mean to make light of what the topics are in these three books. Um I appreciate DJ that comment on we shouldn't be thinking of them as three. we should be thinking of these things um individually and how what the impact is for all of our um students in our community. And I so appreciate and um am grateful for this opportunity that our community
208has to hear our voices. As painful as that is, I agree with Miss Rosen Bloom. Nobody wants people to feel otherred or harmed or hurt. Um but if we we can't move forward with rectifying those feelings um if we just quickly make decisions and not um give it the full time and attention that it warrants. So that would be my um feeling at this point is to uh value this process um value the process. Thanks. I think that's up to you, Dr. Babson. Thank you, Miss G. Okay. So, first of all, I think a lot of um points have been made tonight that are uh if I had to make them again, it would just be sort of reduplication, but um I will start with thanking our community for coming out and voicing their opinions.
209Um, and I think something that I alluded to in the curriculum meeting uh last week, providing some guidance uh for us on how our community feels about these things. Um, and that is part of our job as uh Miss Stern was saying is responding to our community um and listening and weighing that with our own our own judgment. Um, I will say that as a person who has been kind of near or at the center of this process, um, as both a member of the committee, as the representative of the board on the committee, um, the chair of the curriculum committee and also on the policy committee, this has been an issue that has been top of mind for me for the past few months. And I will say something that I think might not
210be surprising from let's say the perspective of a researcher. So when you find discrepant information or you find yourself in a position of uncertainty, you you you keep looking and you you keep your mind open to new data. And especially if you're mistaken, what you do is you see that as an opportunity to learn and you see that as an opportunity to enlighten yourself a bit. And so as um difficult as some aspects of this process have been for me personally in the sense of um causing some stress. Um I think that in a way I have learned quite a lot just on a personal level. But then radiating out you think about how one's decisions um may or may not affect the community at large. Um, one thing that I did soon after the
211committee meeting that in retrospect I might have done earlier is to reach out to a good friend of mine in a local art community that I am a part of an active part of. Um, and as a trans person, they had some perspective on this particular issue that frankly just kind of blew my mind. um and provided a level of insight that I never would have expected, probably should have expected, but um it turns out that their own life history um corresponded pretty closely to some that were uh talked about in all three books, especially in blankets, as being the victim of a being a victim of child abuse themselves. And um I won't reveal her name just out of politeness and and deference to her privacy, but there's um something that I wanted to
212to share. You know, I I've taken lots of notes uh during this process. And one thing that she said um really hit home for me was that um for her she grew up in a very small town in Ohio and in a in an evangelical Christian community and um she did not have access to a library a public library. So part of my reflection during this process has been well we have a public library that can have a wider range or purview right than a school library. But I didn't think that there could be some communities out there that don't have that luxury right that don't have a public library that might have a wide range of materials available. Other thing she mentioned is that for her and this is a quote her the school
213library was her only safe place to be. I had never thought about that. And it's because as um you know a white cisgender heterosexual male, these are just blind spots. And hearing from her story, it it really changed my my perspective on things profoundly. Um a couple other things that I'd like to share and then I want to make a few general points. So, she said that blankets would have helped her not to be ashamed. Um, and Funhome depicted the exact situation. Um, I want to echo something that Miss Solomon referred to, again, something that I did not think of, but um, she said that having these books in the library and having them being part of public conversations actually worked against the very concerns that the parent had, right, about sexual abuse, about grooming,
214etc., right? Um, and the quote from my conversation with my friend was, "People not knowing these things happen makes it possible that they will happen." Again, because this is not part of my subjective experience, I just didn't I had a blind spot about it. I just didn't think about it. Um, so talking to my bright, wonderful friend and having her tell me, I've known her for a long time. Have her tell me these things I've never heard from her before. um frankly was just basically transformative for me um and really made me think that I need to really learn more about this particular issue. Um, so just reading about the American Library Association, what it is, uh, more about the profession of librarian, you know, and thinking about our wonderful librarian, Michelle, um, and just
215learning more about that profession and the judgment, the professional judgment and professional vision that goes into the process of selecting books and again a learning process for me. Uh I have a PhD in education. I teach at Penn. I've been working there for many years. It just goes to show that education is so wide and so vast, so complicated that you can't know everything about it. So it was humbling um to learn more about that. Um so just to wrap up a few things. There are a number of things about the policy that I would like to comment on, but I would like to save that for the policy committee in in those particular meetings. But I think that I I do want to respect a concern that has come up which is that we
216do need to think about process and precedent. Um there's an open and uncertain future about future board members, future members of the administration. So I do understand that concern a lot. Um, one kind of threading the needle idea would be to return them to the library temporarily pending the review of the policy. And then after the pol the new policy has been completed and finalized, then we could review that decision um to put the the books back in the library. But, you know, there are a number of pros and cons there. Um, I think I've mentioned the pros. One of the cons is that there's a little bit of a a shadow around it or like it's kind of hanging around rather than final. Right. And so I I will admit that I've I've come
217down on the side of really uh making this a final gesture tonight um as I would reflect in my vote. Um because I do think that the policy was not written very well. It did not set up our committee for success in my opinion. I think the way that it was written, it was not helpful in certain ways and I think there are lots of ways that it can be improved. Um so I want to say that um a couple of other things I think that um the option to I think separating the policies in terms of the purview of each is a good idea. I don't think the I don't I I have mixed feelings about getting rid of the provision for parents to contest a book. Um, I think there should be some
218channel, but maybe we can think more about what that channel is rather than what it is right now. I would certainly want it to be more like a petition personally. Um, or just a much more like the bar should be higher. I think um, age appropriateness was brought up. I think Miss Stern summarized it perfectly. Um, that we can agree generally on the idea of age appropriateness. there are certain books that we wouldn't think are appropriate for an elementary school student or a middle school student, right? So, I I think that that idea is not wacky, right? But I do think that we we do maybe need to consider age appropriateness on the one hand, but civil liberties on the other and freedom of speech. And I think that that um kind of kind of
219overweighs it. I want to wrap up. Thank you for your time. I know I've taken up a lot of time, but I want to wrap up um from an excellent article in a publication that I don't read that often, but I was again doing a lot of reading and reflecting on this particular issue. And um I found an article and I just want to get the the name um of the author correct here. I found an article in the New Yorker and it was from last two years ago in 2023. My scholarly habits have failed me because I usually try to note the exact date, but the author's name is Katie Ky Waldman. Um W A L D M- and the article is called What Are We Protecting Children From by Banning Books? I think
220it's a very well-ritten article and uh very good. I it resonated a lot because of the current issue and I I want to end on a just a section of the article if you will and the first paragraph really resonated with me and kind of summarized um how I went into this process. So knowledge is power, but it can also age you, make you vulnerable and afraid. Wishing to protect children from the realities of adult life, grubby, earthbound, disappointing for at least a little while is deeply human. Kids mature at different rates and it's not unreasonable for the parents of 12y olds to want to keep their own children from reading the same books as 18-year-olds. So to me again that paragraph really summed up how I went into things. The second paragraph I've tweaked
221a little bit um just for the sake of I think some of the language is a little little harsh. I tweaked the the the verbs a little bit for those of you grammar nerds. I sort of made a shift from the indicative to the subjunctive. Um, so this this second paragraph and it's sequential in the article. Um, but a glance at the list of most frequently banned books makes clear that quote unquote mature content can be a fig leaf. What some parents and advocacy groups are challenging in these books is difference itself. For them, in their vision of childhood, a green, sweet smelling land invented by Victorians and untouched by violence or discrimination or death, white, straight, and cisgender characters are g-rated. All other characters, meanwhile, come with warning labels. When childhood is racialized, cisgendered,
222and dequered, insisting on age appropriate material can become a way to instill doctrine and foreclose options for some readers and to evict other readers from childhood entirely. A number of grown-ups apparently feel emboldened to spend their lives playing peekab-boo with reality. Their kids may not have that luxury. So again, I think excellently written. Um, finally, I just want to say I I regret and I'm sorry for any unintentional harm that I've caused any child in this community or families. Um, the last thing that I would ever want to do is make a child in this community feel unwelcome and that they don't belong. So, thank you for your time. Um, so much of what I'm going to say is going to echo a lot of what we've heard. I first and foremost want to thank
223all the people have come out really, I mean, Miss Loose, you said since February 25th. Um, you, um, you know, your emotion, your passion, um, your eloquence, and I have found particularly, you know, I'm Mr. Moore asked for our opinions, so I'm going to give them to you um quickly, but and I do want to comment on policy because um of where I'm going to go with this and and I'm don't s serve on the policy committee. So um and I want to say another thank you to all of you who have been to those policy meetings because and to the curriculum with your comments because I really think they've informed my thinking and they've expanded like my perspectives and I think, you know, such constructive feedback. I mean, Miss Perkins, you're so great with
224your, you know, you say you're a policy nerd. Well, you know, terrific. We we've really benefited from that and suggestions and I have my thinking really has evolved on the policy front and I want to share it with, you know, the committee because I'm not on that committee. Um, I think originally I was trying to figure out how do we develop this, you know, because I hear you loud and clear the we had a flawed policy and we had a flawed process uh because of it and um and I completely agree with you and so I was trying to think how do we develop a challenge policy that can you know and I'm going to say this isn't a little item. This is a big deal to our public commenter. This is a big deal.
225So, how do we address and how do we s, you know, make sure that it's expressing our values that we're and I got to tell you, I find it really hard to find how we do that because um, you know, I we said it today, I think it's a ton of work for the administration. I think how do you ensure the makeup of that committee? Um, how you know, you know, we want a student voice. We want to be transparent. I mean, I just see it so flawed. And I think it came to my evolution of thinking is really why does one person have the right to set this in motion? Why does one person get to and and that um and and so I really I'm coming with our other um public commenter. I've
226come to think that we should remove the challenge. And I but I also want to make clear I also wholeheartedly support and believe that a parent has the right to determine what their child has access to. They just don't have the right to say what every child has access to. So, so um so I you know, for what it's worth, policy committee, that's how I feel. I'm I think that is um I I'm I'm really wrapping my head around that and I would love to see a policy. I'm glad that we're going down um the route of looking that in a first draft and I I you know people have followed policy before other you know decisions we make. We're you know governance is slow. I said this in the curriculum meeting and and in
227many ways govern there's a reason for that. It allows us to fully vet things. It allows us to evolve our thinking, get different perspectives, you know, really have robust dialogue and conversation and better decision- making and um and I think the process and I'm and I'm but I do think we've been moving pretty swiftly because I think we heard you and um and we're set next policy meeting to look at a first read and then we you know we you know if all goes smoothly we could be at as we said you know a January 10th or January 9th whatever for that business meeting with a an approved policy June sorry what did I say January um so you know I I and this is the part that you've heard me say in curriculum and
228and believe me this isn't easy for me to come because I've I've expressed that you know I see the val I've read the books you know don't need me to say that out loud I've read the books and I find value and and honestly what I the biggest value is that they made me think about something that I have no experience with and gain a lot of empathy for different life lived experiences and you know that's what literature should do um and so um so but um but I also believe you know and I did a little Google because you know in preparing I was like now what is the primary responsibility of a schoolboard director you know and I've done this before but it is our policymaking role is to set policy and that
229policy governs our decision making and and it's it's actually to set new policy or revise policy. That's what it said right when it came right up, you know, from a Google search. And and I truly believe that and I agree with Mr. Thorn we set the good governance is taking the time to set the policy and then make this decision and and because it will be rooted in a policy and you know I I do get you know Mr. and saying, "Well, we what if we remove the challenge?" Well, right there, we've removed the challenge. That is that is set in policy. Um, it is a decision based on policy. So, I just think it's more enduring in the long run if we take the time and it and to your to the point of
230that, you know, at we will not be up here. you know, right now you have I'm if I gauge it right, you've got a pretty sympatico board with everyone believes these books um have merit and that we don't want to be in the business of removing books. Um so I just want to make sure that we're in a position that we have something that is enduring. And so um I I and I heard and I heard from the community loud and clear that we want, you know, that we have a flawed process. And so let's do that work and then let's I I'm also reading the board and I don't think we're going to have you know we might make that decision tonight. Um so you know what to do but I I hope you
231respect that's where I'm coming from because I think that the best governance is when we let we make the policy and then we let we make our decisions based on that policy. And I think the very fact that you know we are we are doing it as an expression of our values that policy is an expression of our values and our beliefs and um and so you know I know I want miss um Dunn to be able to make comments right now and then you know we can take it from there. Okay. I have not been on any of the committees that have talked on this publicly. I have seen or listen no I have seen either in person or online every public comment that has been made on this and I really I want
232to thank everybody. I want to start by thanking our students. I think we live in a time where it can be really difficult even for adults to come out and speak truth to people in authority and to ask for what you want and to admit that you're different or that you that something that those adults have done have made you feel different. And I'm going to tell you some of those public comments even tonight couple you almost got me have made me cry. So I want to echo Dr. Babson, and I think I can echo the board. If having this policy in place has created a situation that harmed anyone in this community, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I sat on a board that knew this policy was in place and trusted that it would work
233out the way I always wanted it to. Thank you to the student who came and said, "You are elected to represent our values, and by not talking about this and not making a decision on this, you failed to do that. it it hurt and it was very very true. So, thank you to everyone who has come and done that. It's important for all of us to hear from you. Sometimes we think we know what you're thinking. Um, Miss Stern pointed out her phone, so she stole my thunder a little bit, but I want to point out to the board, we have a situation where we're all always talking about phone cell phones. Should they be in classrooms? Should we remove them? Should they have them? Should they be gone all day? We're worried about cell
234phones. And we have a group of kids demanding we put back books in the library. How ironic. So, I want you to think about that tonight when we vote. Are you going to tell kids they can't have their books back? I I h I most of you who come to these meetings or who watch any of them know I rarely come with notes. I speak contempor extemporaneously. I just kind of know what I have this situation since before any of you knew about it, since I heard these books were going to be removed from the library. And I told Dr. Bachelor, I apologize, but we're going to have this discussion publicly because I'm really upset about it. Um, has been waking me up. It keeps me up at night. I'm awake till 1:00 in the
235morning some nights, and it wakes me up. The last four mornings I have been up around 4:08. And I've been up at that hour, board members, trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong that anybody doesn't want to put these books back [Music] tonight. And and I say that as a lawyer who really values policy and process. I I genuinely genuinely do. And I and I respect differences. I I want to disagree without being disagreeable. But I feel very strongly that one decision on a set of books was one decision under an existing policy and that the new policy is a separate issue. We have the authority currently So we have the authority currently under state law to put books in the library or take books out. I mean we could be sitting here just
236as easily. So keep this in mind when you vote. Taking books out of your library. That is the same authority we will have if we wait until June to decide whether to put these books back in the library then once a policy is done. And by the way, I know we all want it done by June, but we don't all always agree. So it may not be done in June. And the policy committee may be here in July looking at this policy. And then we're going to explain to a group of students that they graduated with those books still out of the library because we didn't decide think we should put the books back until after we had the policy. I come from a family that's actually politically conservative and socially liberal. Uh my mother
237called me and said, "I've seen this in the news. Why are those books out of the library? Put them back." Um, and I come from a family of physicians where the rule for most of you will know is first do no harm. And when I saw a student, and I'm not going to name her, but she's going to know who she is. and she said, "I came out at 13 and I never felt unwelcome or judged in this community until these books were removed from the library and I felt like who I am wasn't something that was appropriate for my peers or in this community." That broke my heart. So, I want to tell you about each of these books because I don't think it's fair to judge them as a group. Gender Queer I
238read the last time it was challenged and it stayed in the library. Um it is a book about a young person struggling with their gender identity and struggling with every community trying to label them and saying you belong to us or you belong to them, you belong here, you belong there instead of just saying you belong. And I didn't struggle with that at that age, but boy did it make me understand some of my family members and the struggles they must have gone through. And I reached out to each of them after reading that book and said, "If I ever made you feel less of this family or less a human being, please, please forgive me." I read blanket uh I read blankets next. That was a heavy one. Um, and thank you to Mainpoint
239Books for ordering it for me because it was sold out in this community. Um, and I didn't align with that book as much. You know, I I think a lot of people struggle with their religion when they're in high school. To me, that book was a lot about struggling with religion and secrets and quiet. Um, it was about struggling with new relationships. It was a struggling about with kind of how to express yourself in those relationships. Um, and it it was a good book. Um, again, it belongs in our library. Funh home. I have a law degree and I did have to look up the words and it is it is not just I mean it is also in some ways it's an English paper. It is, you know, it's comparing this person's life, this
240author's life with Ulisses. I mean, there are like genuine references. If you are not a well- read person, um, and I struggled with some of this and I think of myself as a well- read person, it's hard to get through. You're like, "Wow, I should go read some of these classics because I would understand this better and I will appreciate it more the second time." Um but one of the really important lessons from Funhome um is about the author's do author's father who couldn't be himself in a country that didn't allow at a time when we didn't allow people to be different. And by different I mean anything other than straight and white. Um and that changed the course of his life and not in a good way. And I think a lesson for all
241of this community and for the board is that not allowing people and honoring who people are by allowing them to see themselves in books is harmful. It's not it's not just another month or two to some people. To some people it's today. Um I I support our librarians. I also worry about the future. What if we don't always have these fabulous librarians who craft these fabulous collections for our students? And that's where all of you come in. You all need to know what's in the library. You all need to talk to your students about what they're reading. And if they're reading things you don't like, you have the authority to go to the administration and ask them not to allow your student to read it. I will agree. The first thing I would do anytime
242my mother told me if she had ever said to me, don't read a book, I would have found a way to get that book. So, be careful what you wish for. Um, I I just I think these books are are memoirs about real struggles that our students have. You've all said this, but I felt it when I read them. It's not it's not just academic, right? I read them and I went, "Oh, I want Oh, that would really hurt. Oh, I remember being a teenager and struggling with that." And I don't think it hurts people to know that other people struggle. I in high school was reading um I was reading the Lords of Discipline by Pat Conroy, which is not a memoir. Um and I s I started sobbing on the bus. I remember
243I was on a school trip and one of my friends said, "What are you crying about?" I said, "I'm crying for Pat Conroy." And she said, "What do you mean?" I said, "His father's a terrible abusive alcoholic." And she said, "Sarah, it's not a it's a it's a it's a novel. it's not a memoir. And I said, "No, if you've had if you've lived with an alcoholic, you would know." And she said, "No, no. Authors are really capable. They craft things that aren't their life experience." And I said, "I I believe that and I believe Pat Conroy might genuinely be that tal talented, but I'm going to tell you, I have an insight into what his house was like growing up." And he did eventually come out and admit that. So I think I that
244was what I found in these books was I have that moment for myself of the first time I saw in a book something I understood personally and I I wouldn't I wouldn't tell a child that it's okay to wait two more months. So the I I know the next thing that's coming is a um a request to potentially table this or move it and and I respect that. I'm obviously not going to vote for it. Um, I just would ask anybody who is going to vote for it to ask yourself before you do, what could we put in that policy that would make you change your mind? You all said you think these books go back in the li belong in the library. What what about this new policy requires you to wait two months,
245three months, four months to the policy committee. I'm all for saying no one parent has the right to remove books. So, if you want to draft something in that direction, it sounds like you might have enough people to go for that. Um, and to the community, um, I heard somebody joke, "This is a kind of weird book club." Uh, I'm looking for a good book club. I hope there's wine. Um, and I do hope that you all find some comfort in in book clubs with each other over this event. It's up to you. I I don't want to say you can't do it. I just I'm not I can kind of read the tea leaves that we're not going to get a P but I I can make I will make a motion to table
246the vote until after the policy is complete and then we would take the vote and and I can just also again say you know I I really you know I want respect on that you know I'm asking for the respect that we there are some of us that really feel that we are better suited if we're grounded in the policy and then we do the policy work first and um and I want the end to I want the means to justify the end and I feel like in some ways we're asking the you know the the end will justify the means and again that is you know I I just think it you know I stated it before I just think that it's uh stronger and more enduring and will live past the time when
247we might not have this vote. And you know, it is our opinion um on these books. And and I you know, I I want it to be a reflection of more than just our individual opinions. And um and I want to do the work and I want the policy to reflect our values and and have, you know, lasting impact. So, um, if it helps you, I did find, and I forgot these because I I wrote down everything and I forgot to write this. I just had my phone out. Policy 11, policy 011 talks about the standards for effective school governance and says that to promote student growth and achievement and effective school board advocates for a thorough and efficient system of public education by number two, engaging and promoting community support by seeking input, building
248support networks, and generating action. I think we have that here. And then it separately in sec so just give me a second. It separately in the same policy says that we ensure effective planning occurs by linking board actions to annual goals. And I really feel strongly that belonging is one of our annual goals, not just our mission. And I I think that's what I I think that's what I'm asking the board to do here. Right. And and excuse me. So, so and I appreciate we're not going to Yeah, we're not going to engage with the public. We This is We just got to talk up here, but So, you don't have to make the motion to table, but if you would like to make the motion to to table, I will certainly honor that. Mr.
249D, I just want to ask a question. Um, if we do take a vote to reinstate the books in the library tonight, what prevents someone tomorrow morning from filing a challenge again? So, that's a great question, and you're not the first person to ask it. Um technically the policy requires the it superintendent to form an ad hoc committee. Another flaw in the policy is it doesn't give a set of timing. I think it would be um I think it would be foolish to rush to try and form an ad hoc committee to review one of these books tomorrow when it's very clear to everyone who's paid any attention to the community that this policy is under review and is going to change. We don't know what the outcome will be, but it is going to
250change. I I can ask our solicitor, is there a specific time? There's nothing I've seen in the policy that requires us to do that timely. There's there's no timeline in the policy. So, it would be it would not be unreasonable for the administration to wait to deal with a book until there is a new policy in place, a deal with a book challenge. I'm sorry. Well, the the a new challenge should be dealt with in the same way that the past challenges have been dealt with along the same the same process should be followed. Nothing should be changed until the the existing policy has been changed. Okay. But it's not it doesn't mean the very same day. I mean we don't form a the forming a committee takes a couple of weeks getting everybody on
251together on time. I mean, yeah, I I don't remember how what the what the timeline was the last time, but my recollection is that it took a little bit of time between the time that the challenge came in till the time that the actual committee was formed. I I don't know what the exact timeline was, but obviously it can't be done, you know, instantly. So if if a concern is also so let's say um a challenge was filed tomorrow, could the board put it on the agenda next month to suspend that policy pending resolution of the new policy? Yeah, the board has the power to suspend policies. So you could certainly suspend a policy uh without coming up with a new policy to replace it with. So I mean it's not something we can do
252tonight because it wasn't advertised on the agenda. We want to follow process can't be done tonight. But but if that's a concern of board members here tonight, it's something I could commit to putting on the agenda next month. My concern is that I want this issue to be finalized. And if we make a band-aid solution tonight, I think it opens up further discussion, further challenges down the road. I want this to be done correctly and properly, not knee-jerk reaction. We've made one mistake already. I don't want to make two. We actually didn't make a mistake. Well, when I say make a mistake, the policy was flawed and the procedures were flawed. We've agreed to that. That's the mistake that was made. I actually take exception to that. I'm not sure the policy was flawed. We
253just don't agree with the outcome of that decision with regard to these three books. Oh, I think we've a lot of people have said the policy was flawed. So, I think we're going to look at the policy. Absolutely. And I think it's a separate issue though to me than putting the books back in the library. I think there's a lot of different opinions on the policy. And I think um oh, how do I say this? I think it's a little bit hiding behind not doing the right thing by saying, "Oh, well, the policy, you know, um to me, I don't I don't agree with the outcome where it stands now. I don't believe in banning these three books." And so, I want to fix that. And then whatever else comes after that, it, you know,
254is work to be done. But I certainly don't want to muck around waiting for that to happen. I think it should happen, but I think we have differences of opinion on that. So I don't want to confuse the two issues. To me, that's confusing them. Mr. Krisu, could I ask a a point about the current policy? Sure. Um DJ, I I really do appreciate the concern. I actually raised this with u Miss Dun this afternoon because I do like to try to think about where could things go. Um so my question to Mr. Kristoff is um until we do a second read of a change to policy 144, regardless of what we do with these three particular books, until we change policy 144.1 in whatever fashion we might change it. We we are subject to
255any book challenges. It it could be another book, a different book. It doesn't have to be these three. Um that's just the reality with with We are under no obligation. I'm very familiar with the policy, Mr. Kristoff. We are under no obligation in in a timeline of when Mr. uh when Dr. Bachelor would form an ad hoc committee. And I think I said this at a couple of policy meetings. You know, people have been put on notice. They are aware that the that the board in the com and the district is is undertaking a review of these policies. I could imagine that it would actually be a re a reasonable reply on behalf of Dr. Bachelor whether these three books were challenged or any other book was challenged to notify anybody who submits a challenge.
256The policy is under review and we will take up this matter when the review of the policy is complete because we're under no timeline obligation to to form an ad hoc committee in any particular time frame. Am I is my understanding correct? There is no timeline in the policy. However, until the policy is revised, it stays in place and it any new challenge should be treated exactly as the prior challenges have been treated. So the board can if it wants suspend the current policy at the next board meeting while you develop a new one. But in the meantime, the policyy's there. It it require it's required to be followed and it should be followed in the same way it's been followed in the past. Okay. The I will just offer that my concern with suspending
257the policy is it actually provides predominantly for the selection of library materials. I wouldn't want to hamstring our librarians from selecting library books for the library. So that was actually my follow-up question is does the board have the authority to suspend a portion of a policy as opposed to an entire policy? The um the board policy that tells you you have the authority to suspend. It doesn't get go into detail. It just says you have the authority to suspend, revise, propose policies, etc. So, it doesn't say that it doesn't specifically define. I would view that as saying yes, you could suspend part of a policy and say we're going to suspend this section of a policy. Um, that would be my advice. But this is all hypothetical folks like there there's a something that needs
258to get corrected and then all of this you know legal ease so that hasn't happened yet I think the question is I think this helps certain people understand how their vote affects broader situations right and but I'm still making the point that that hasn't happened so I I'm glad we cleared up you know what our options are but it hasn't happened. I just have a a follow-up question. So if tonight we reinstate the books, tomorrow someone has another challenge and then the next board meeting the board suspends the the policy, what happens to a challenge that's already in process? Well, if the policy under which the challenge is brought is suspended or repealed, then it it ends there because unless unless it's been concluded, it just ends because that there's now no longer a a
259process under which it can proceed. Okay. Thank you, sir. Do I Yes. Go ahead. Just a few things. Um, from where I see it, I think there are so many flaws in the current policy that one could that that it does cast into question um the strength some could say the validity but I won't go that far but the strength of the of the process itself that coupled with the force and the and I will say the welcome uh response from the public on this. I think those are the two main factors in my mind to push for a quick resolution to this beyond the substantive issues at hand around um access and freedom of speech and and everything that we've discussed there. So I I just want to put it there. There was I
260just want to recap an idea I mentioned earlier um which is something that I thought of which is to put the books back in the library immediately but with a proviso that um it's temporary pending the completion of the of the review andor revision of the pol of policy 144.1. But I'm just going to repeat what I said earlier, which is that I think the importance of having this be final right now over ways that overweighs whatever benefit could come from that. Thanks, Dr. Babson. I hear what you're saying, but my point is it won't be final. There's going to be more action after this and and unless we think about this in the long term, we're going to be dealing with this constantly. I I I agree. And you know this is something as
261as part of the policy committee you know this is something that I've and by the way um all of us board members at some point or another we do have individual conversations with each other which are permitted under sunshine um and all all of you know that I've talked with all of you at some length about aspects of this. So [Music] um we do as I said earlier we have to consider process and precedent and an open and uncertain future about who will be on a future administration or a future board. I I I really do understand this and I've wrestled with this particular issue. However, I think the timeline issue that Miss Stern has brought up and underlined several times I think is crucial to this. In other words, if there were a strict
262timeline that called for an immediate process to kick into place, then that would be one thing. But there is literally no timeline. This could languish uh or pick another word that doesn't have that connotation. This could sit um and just kind of be there for indefinitely. There's literally no timeline that we have to take up the issue. So in other words, we could let it sit there as as now you could make the argument that that you know bring in another word fester could fester it could cause tension in the community etc. But again, what's the greater good? So, just some thoughts. I think it's our responsibility to expedite the process and the policy. So, I and we are going to expedite the the policy process, but we're going to do it properly. So, if
263it takes two first reads, it's going to take two first reads. I don't think we should I think we the policy has been around long enough. We've all agreed except maybe Mrs. Solomon that there are some significant problems with miss there are problems with it and it needs to be revised. Maybe it needs to be split. I think there's a lot to review and so it's possible that the first policy comes to the full board and the board has feedback and sends it back for another first reading. And so that's my concern from a timing standpoint. I I don't want the idea to be out there that I think the policy is just fine. What I'm saying is I do think parents should have a right to challenge material. I think that's very important. So
264what I'm saying is I think the policy debate should be separate from what we do with the books because I think it's a different issue and I think that it involves you know different um set of considerations and it will take a lot longer and miss Alman I don't think you're the only person here who who thinks that I think you've seen an array of opinions on what belongs in that policy which is one of my concerns about holding up the books for the the final policy. Um, I certainly have no problem making a motion next month or putting it on agendas next month to suspend the policy that's in place if that would address some of Mr. Thornton's concerns. I I echo those concerns. I I think I was relying a little bit on
265the timing aspect or the lack of a timing requirement in the policy, but having more clarity that we need to make sure it doesn't languish or fester. Um, I appreciate your concerns and I'm I we can put that on next month's agenda. I have to figure out which pol which committee it would go through. Oh, it would go through policy. Miss D, I'm loathed to to extend this too long here, but I I just want to I want to bring up something um that I think is is important. Um, and you know, I think that we can um I think that we can consider um whether or not um going forward um well, let me just I'm just going to hold off and collect my thoughts a little bit further on what I was going
266to say. I'll defer to someone else. Thank you. Can I just ask a question? If if the books go back on the shelf today, if if that's done and then we go through the process of revising this policy, does that, you know, give us leeway to extend the process because the three books will have gone back to the library shelves. So, I don't want to say that we're going to take away any of the urgency of trying to correct the policy, but yeah, I think it might make some people, and I don't want to speak for everybody, I think there are people who might feel more urgency about getting the policy done. And I want the board and the policy committee first to do the policy the right way. And so I that that's part
267of my point in separating the policy itself from these books. And and from a governance standpoint, I think that the suspension solves some of that, although I recognize it doesn't solve all of your concerns. But does that answer your timing question? No. So maybe say it again in a different way. So if the if if we want to revise this the policy to potentially bring the books back, right? If the books are already back, then why then why are we rushing to get the policy done or why are we trying to I I think we're we're not rushing, but we're we're pushing to get the policy done because I think a majority of the board thinks there's a problem with it, right? and we are we want to honor the requests of the community to
268review the policy. I think it sounds like there's going to be an array of conversations about what belongs in that policy and what's appropriate and what's not. So, and I think that needs to be done in a deliberate way. So, just with regard to the policy alone, I'm so sorry. I assure the board I've chaired policy many years. I will take this policy through the committee in a in an efficient and appropriate manner. It's not going to languish. It's not going to be rushed. You will and I'm and that's why I made such a full report of policy because I wanted all nine of you as well as the community to be on full notice. Pay attention to the meeting that's going to happen in May. Read the materials, which I know you do. Watch
269the meeting, attend the meeting, what have you, because we're going to move forward with the policy. And I know everybody wants to be really up to speed on the various points and then we're going to go forward. So I want to just I think change what you the way you stated this. I don't think we're changing the policy to get the books back in the library. We've had this policy for a long time. Challenges have gone through this policy. Um and it hasn't ended in this kind of uproar. So something happened here we should correct. We have the authority to do that and we I think it's unanimous that we want to do that. The policy debate is separate. It could be that a challenge is put forth tomorrow. It could be that another committee
270is convened under the same policy and it comes out with a completely different result. So I think you guys are looking for an absolute protection that these are really thorny difficult issues. I don't think there's ever going to be that absolute to it that oh you know I think there we may come across material that I can think of you know pornography truly that we don't want in our libraries. It's like I I think you're looking for a comfort level that doesn't exist, but I think we should look at this particular issue separately. The policy is not I'm not looking at the policy to fix this. I because that committee could have come up with a completely different I I don't want to come up with creating a policy to meet to serve our purpose.
271Okay. Okay. I thought I heard you saying you want to fix the policy to get the books back in the library and that's I don't think what the policy is going to do. Let me just rephrase that. If the books go back on the shelves today, if we vote that they go back today, are we committed to work on the the policy in the right way, but but in an efficient way so that it it doesn't linger. Absolutely. Can we? Absolutely. That's what Miss Stern just committed to and the and she's chair of policy. So I and you all heard it here. So we're going to hold her to it. Okay. Because the discussion about it lingering past, you know, you had mentioned that it could linger past three or four months. I I would
272hope it's not more than three or four months, but the reality is I'm hearing an array of com of opinions here and I think this is a policy that's very it's clearly important and the committee is going to have to take all that into account. So Miss Thorn, I'm sorry. That's right. Miss Girtton, I don't have the answer to this, but is it possible that we potentially undermine the bigger issue of how we feel about the policy of censorship by voting? So, if we vote today to put books back on the shelf and then okay, good, that's good. But then, do we undermine what comes next for the future? That I I I think that's what DJ was trying to get at. And I I don't know if I have the answer, but I'm just
273curious if perhaps we might be. I think the answer I think your answer as to censorship is is more appropriately dealt with as to the policy instead of these three books. So if we think these three books belong in the library, we can deal with that under state code and if we think or if certain people on the board think no actually they it should be okay for someone for there to be book challenges and we want to allow that and we don't consider it censorship. We consider it you know input from the community. That's what would go in the policy. If you genuinely believe in never banning books as long as they're not illegal to have in a school library that's a separate policy. I think these are policy conversations and that's why I've
274been saying I think we need to separate the books from the policy because I think these are these are books that were removed under one pol one review of the policy and one ad hoc committee. I mean one of these books was kept by an ad hoc committee two or three years ago and and removed by this ad hoc committee or recommended for removal. So I I mean these are conversations that are come up and those I think are thoughts to have in the process of reviewing a new policy but I don't think I mean I'm open to hearing it but I don't think that we create censorship by refuse by putting the books back. I don't think we but maybe did I not hear your question the right way? I mean, Chair Doug, I
275don't know if I have a total answer. That is an answer, but I'm just curious if perhaps we might be undermining by I mean, these are just three books. There's million books. Um, and the bigger issue is how do we feel about appropriate materials and censorship? And if if that's a bigger discussion that I think we can vet through while it keeps our feet to the fire for policy and then we so I think Miss Stern I no and I please we're going to try and respect our rules. We we don't converse with the community when we're we're being debate. I think Miss Stern I think we all know she can be quite a taskmaster. She takes that as the biggest compliment. So I don't think there's going to be any delay in getting this
276through policy. I think the delay will be genuinely because we're all having these types of conversations. So, my apologies to the administration. You may want to prepare prepare for some late nights, but I think it's important that we're having these conversations. I I don't mean that in all in a flip way, but I think that it sounds to me like maybe your concern is how the how the next policy is written to make sure we don't end up in a censorship setting or we don't put books in that we don't think are appropriate. Um a and we is a question right that's also goes in the policy is it a policy that's going to have an ad hoc committee if you want to allow a challenge right should there be an ad hoc committee is
277it just administrators do we say no it's always the librarian do we say any challenge has to go through the full board I think this is part of what Mrs. Duffy was saying when we started thinking about this and one of the things that's keeping me up gosh how do you write that you know does every board meeting end up being a full book review of all you know the 60 books that got you exactly that's that's not what we're here for so I think that's one of the things that we may find appealing about just saying no if you don't want your kid to read a book you call the school and tell them they can't take it out of the library I would go further and say so well I actually would go
278further and say because I don't want it to be a gotcha for librarians. If you don't want your child to take out a book, you and your child sign the form that they can't take it out of the book library because I think the child any high school student should be responsible to know what they're not allowed to do under their parents rules and whether or not they follow them as we all know as parents is a whole other issue. Um, but I think that that's, you know, that's how I would write that. But I'm not on policy, so we'll see what comes out of there. I heard Hold on a second. I saw Miss Lao when I turned my Sorry, I just want to reiterate that we've received a formal legal opinion from our
279solicitor who tells us that proper procedure and good governance um in if we are you know interested in reversing the ad hoc committee's decision would be to take a full board vote and that authority existed before the ad hoc committee even convened. it still exists now and actually any new or revised policy would not give us that authority because that policy would be prospective and not retroactive to any um decision that was made before the new policy was put in place. So, you know, I heard a lot of arguments about let's follow procedure, proper procedure and good governance. I'm all for that. I'm a lawyer. Um, but I think our solicitor is telling us that proper procedure would actually be a full board vote and and that a new policy wouldn't apply to the decision
280of the ad hoc committee that has already been rendered. Well, we're going to have to take a full board full eventually. I mean, I'm not arguing that, you know, we we will get to that point. It's a matter of yes, we have the authority. It's should you know the question that I'm struggling with is should we wield that authority before we've revised the policy. So yes, no matter what we're going to take a full full it's just you know what comes first you know and that and that's what I've been struggling with you know because again just I you know I believe they're all good governance. I have confidence that everyone here wants to provide good governance. I guess I don't see the additional value of waiting because it would actually to me it's not
281all good governance like I think good governance is like you know taking a full board vote and it wouldn't be taking the vote based on a new policy because that new policy actually doesn't apply in the situation what if we remove the challenge you know I mean like you could you just that's your opinion okay like so so I'm I'm What? No, I actually if you remove the challenge from the policy, it doesn't mean that these books automatically go back. We have to take a separate. Of course not. We still have to take a vote. I'm recognizing we have to take a vote. So, um, you know, what I'm struggling with is just precedent. Like, you know, when when we get a decision that we don't like and we overturn it, you know, like the
282like what's to prevent another board from doing that, you know, in the future? So there's another decision that's made and we overturn it. They So those people prevent elections. Yeah. Elections. Yeah. I mean that already exists. I mean a new board could undo all of this, you know, next year. That's just the reality. That's why we have elections. I I agree with that. I want to make one other point clear because I think maybe Janie and I think of it this way as lawyers and we haven't pointed it out. And that is the same as within a district. There's a hierarchy and if somebody makes a decision, somebody else has the authority to overrule it. Somebody else has the authority to overrule that. The laws are kind of stacked the same way. So policy is
283ours, but the law is above the policy. And so the same way we can't adopt a policy that violates the law, the the law always trumps the policy. So it's not bad governance to say state law gives us this authority. And I understand we're talking about when to exercise it, but but my point is policies don't have to say you could overturn this by using a state law because that's inherent in every policy. We can overturn any decision by any policy as long as it's not illegal probably under state code. So I think that's that's maybe where we're kind of thinking with legal brains that I I was realizing maybe we haven't clarified that for other people from a structure of governance standpoint. The same way a policy you know stacks on top of an
284administrative regulation the code stop stacks on top of the policy and that may be it may not help you but that's I think where I go with it and I was relying on the opinion of our solicitor for that because I didn't know that either as a new board member. Oh, just quick quick quickly if you don't mind. Um, go ahead, Lydia. Well, I was going to call the question. So, well, I I had I had a I had a couple quick points to make and then we can proceed. It's late, but you know, there's debate. I I I'm seeing a debate about whether or not the decision of our committee was a function of a bad policy or not. And there are agreements that we made to not discuss you know the deliberations of
285that committee. Um but I will give you my personal opinion which is that I think that the policy has some serious weaknesses. For example, there's not even an appeal mechanism in the policy. I mean that is a glaring emission. Here's here's another one. Okay. And this I I gotta tell you, I mean, um, if I may, I mean, Mi Michelle, uh, I I I am sorry. I mean, I I do regret some just not knowing enough about the work that you do and, you know, the the process that goes on. Um, I I'm sorry. You know, I should know more about I should have known more about it. Um, but now I do and and so I think that for example the librarian should be giving us a 20 minute PowerPoint about how they go
286through their pro just educate us, right? Um or h have it just be on us perhaps as a board to educated about how librarians make decisions, right? I went into that committee meeting just this is just one example. I went into that committee meeting not knowing that not knowing that process. So that would have been very helpful for me as a member of that committee. No matter how I felt about the books, it just would have helped make that decision, right? Um so I mean again I want to reserve more comments when it's not 11:00 at night and when we're in the policy meeting itself. Um, but in my opinion, it goes back to this issue of whether you think the policy itself is is so compromised that that it just we're just in this
287situation and we need to move forward. And that that's kind of where I am. Thanks. I'd like to call the question. Yes, she Well, it is technically call the question. She means yes, she would like us to vote. Okay. Uh all so I the resolution just to remind everybody is to put the three books in question back in the library. Uh all those in favor say I to put the books sorry pending table. So we need to vote. Did you withdraw it? No. Nobody seconded it. She didn't. She made a motion but it wasn't second. But I appreciate you catching but I'm not. Okay. So, I'm I'm going to call the vote. Those in favor of placing these the three books in question back into the Rner High School library say I. I. I. I.
288Hold on. Let me finish the vote, please. And all those opposed. So, there are three just abstaining. Mr. Kristoff, can they abstain? Yes. Okay. So, I have a six a vote. Six in favor, three abstained. The three abstained are Miss Girtton, Miss Laauo, and Miss Duffy. Oh, not Miss Rosen, Miss Rosen. I've got my ends of the room mixed up. I'm looking one way. Sorry. Sorry. Uh, did you get all that, Miss Klman? Okay. Thank you. We're you can all stay if you want, but you can also all go celebrate somewhere. The rest is going to go quickly. The next item on the cons is the consent agenda. Um I'm going to ask for a motion to approve items 10.01 through 15.02. So moved. Thank you, Miss Solomon. Can I get a second? Second. Miss
289Solomon and Mr. Thornton. All those in favor say I. I. I. Okay. I have a 90 vote on that. Uh I have to flip pages. The next item is 16. The reports from the board leaison. Miss Solomon, do you have a report from the Delaware County Community College? No report. Well, that was fast. Okay. Uh Dr. Babson, do you have a report from the Delaware County Intermediate Unit? No. I did, but it's okay. Okay. Um, the Delaware County School Board's Legislative Council. I'm going to keep this simple. Please keep in mind if any of you want to serve on the Del the delegate assembly to PSBA last year. It was Miss Girtton, Miss Solomon, and and me who went. If other people want to go, please step up. We need to appoint people in June,
290I think, but it's probably better if we get it done sooner. Um, spring advocacy day, if you're interested in going to that, is May 13th, but I think you need to get registered soon. And also, uh, the DCIU legislative breakfast with all the other Delaware County school boards that we went to last year is really good. Um, is on May 16th. So, I don't think I've seen the invitation for that yet, but look for it because it should be coming up soon. I can look into that. You should be should have gotten all gotten an invitation to that. Okay. Maybe I just didn't see it in my email which has been full lately. I'll double check. Okay. Uh PSBA, Mr. Thornton. No update at this time. Great. Thank you. Um I had one before I
291move on to board announcements. I we typically do community announcements and I didn't mention it earlier because I know we were trying to get to the big topics. Um I think I emailed folks, but if you're interested, the ABC Bash um fundraiser is coming up on Friday, May 9th. I believe May 10th. May 10th at is it Friday? Oh, then it's the 10th. It's the 9th. It's the 9th at 118 North. And then REF's um Kentucky Derby Gala is Tedy May 3rd, right? I think it's May 3rd. It's I believe it's Friday, May 3rd. Buy tickets now. I think May 3rd this Saturday. Look for Saturday. Look for announcements in the Radner reader. It's definitely the Kentucky of the second. I have it on my calendar as the third. Okay. Saturday evening. Um, so board
292announcements. Uh, I think everybody announced when their policy when their committee meetings would be for May, but the full board will be meeting back here on May 27th at 700 p.m. Um, I don't see anybody left who's necessarily going to give public comment, but if you feel so inspired, you coming up. Okay, Mr. Moore, you're trying to lose your favored status as a former school board member. No, thank you for coming up. I'm teasing you. He knows I'm teasing him. Uh, there's nothing wrong with voting no on something because you thought it wasn't the right time to consider it. I thought this was the right time to consider this night and make a vote on it. But if you decided not to vote yes tonight because you thought the timing was wrong, there's nothing wrong
293with that. One more thing. If you want to suspend a policy, I think that also requires something along the lines of equivalent of a equivalence of a first read and a second read. I that's what I thought I saw in our policy three. Um so that was not on the agenda for tonight. Um however, I'm a resident or a taxpayer. If you ever wanted to think about suspend suspending suspending policy three um suspending the challenge portion of the library policy, that is something you could do potentially tonight or another time. Thank you. Um and and while I I know we're trying to get out of here, I I actually want to echo Mr. Moore. I I fully respect that people have differing opinions. We disagree without being disagreeable. And I don't want anyone to hear
294to think we think any less of you for however you voted. Um, yeah. Last item. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? Oh, yeah. I have a motion from Miss and a second from Dr. Babson.