001I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Roll call. Mr. Borthwick >> here. >> Mr. Casey >> here. >> Mrs. Chzik >> present. >> Miss Fox >> present. >> Mr. Mckender >> present. >> Miss Merkel >> here. >> Mr. Leky >> present. >> Mrs. Yani >> present. >> Mr. Holmes >> present. >> We will now have a presentation for special education. So this evening um Anginette who is our director of student services and special education and Sandy Lammana who has been a longtime um contracted school psychologist. She is also one of the people who is the inspiration behind the Lacawana County literacy initiative are here to discuss with the board um
002what we're seeing in terms of increased special education numbers. You know, it's really easy when you are an educator to throw around the anacronyms and throw around the educational lingo, but what I want to make sure is both the board and the public as I talk about things like increases in autism spectrum disorder or increases in different identifications or exceptionalities that there's a mutual understanding of what these are. So, I'm going to turn it over right now to Anette and to Sandy who will be giving you this information. >> Good evening, guys. Um what we have done is this. We have put together some data for you. Um and if you go onto your laptops, I have emailed you the numbers for special ed. Um unfortunately I am not techsavvy enough to be able to
003print it out on a piece of paper for you. So I emailed it to you. um within the last and what you'll see on your your uh laptops is I've looked at the last five school years um and I have injected my look all my arrows didn't come out but um what I have done is I have listed from 2020 21 school year the special ed classes we had the numbers of students that were on those rosters not in their classes on their rosters And I did, you will see throughout the presentation that there's little boxes of red print and that tells you how many classes I we have either added or we have dropped between each school year. Um, looking at the data, we have almost doubled our special ed uh rosters and our
004teachers. Um, I believe uh as of the last count that I got the other day, we had 160 uh early intervention and kindergarteners come in. Um we my supervisor Maggie Lotney who takes care of elementary has done uh right now she's up to 65 IEPs uh for the month of July and August. Um, Greg's not quite as high um because he has secondary, but um we so we we are bulging at the seams. Um I do have to say Dr. Keading has been very good to us as far as finding us classroom space and making sure that we have rooms and things like that. Um we have pretty much tried to hold the bar for speech therapists and occupational therapists and uh physical therapists even though our numbers are increasing. We're we've increased their case
005loads um to accommodate the kids that are that we have on our list. Um right now our department has one full-time psychologist. Um, I have Sandy Lammana and Anita O'Brien who have been with me what the last five years, >> 14, >> oh boy, 14 years. Um, but they've been they've been two consist I almost consider them employees of the district because they've been with us all along. And I have four other part-time psychologists who test on the weekends and at night and sometimes during the day. Um so we have definitely blossomed. Um we've seen a major increase in our uh autistic support population. Um I'm happy to say that our emotional support population is holding its own. Um although we have seen an increase in the the disability of other health impaired which gives
006us a little bit of leeway and where we're scheduling things like that. So, with that said, um I'm going to turn it over to Sandy Lammana and she will go through our diagnostic process and she'll give you information on how students are identified and the different disability categories. >> Good evening. What Ann and Dr. Keing did not say is that my daughter and son try to do interventions at least three times a year trying to get me to quit because they think I should stop working now. But you know I just can't say enough about this district. I um for 32 years service the other 19 school districts around the NEIU. So I always feel that I could always comment with a law a high degree of objectivity and there's no better school districts in
007terms of the staff than this school district or trust me as a school if you have a school psych degree now you could go anywhere but I just want to say that but my daughter does refer to the district as my toxic boyfriend that I can't get away from it that I love it so much here. So um I want to talk about four things tonight. The first thing I want to do is show you um um in a broad spectrum of special education and how we go about identifying students. Then I want to show you the prevalence rates across some of these disability classifications. And I know that for all of us like we've been so worried about the autistic support population. So, I want to give you a lot of information that I
008was able to glean from the CDC's 2025 report and then after that I want to go through the protocols that we use for identifying students. Okay. So, I have to Can I take this off here? >> Yes. >> Or maybe I could just do this. Okay. So, I didn't know that I send you this and you would have it in front of you. So I'll make sure you not only get a copy of the PowerPoint, but what I would also like to send you is some of the documents that I reference where I got a lot of this information. So first of all, who is eligible for special education? Okay, if you look at it in 1975 um the federal government enacted the Individuals with Disabilities Act and at that time that act was responsible
009for requiring that all students 3 to 21 were eligible for free and appropriate public education and those students in order to qualify for special ed identified by a team of professionals. But of course in our multidisciplinary teams we also include the parents as part of those teams. So if you look at the different disability classifications there are actually 13. So children could qualify for special education under one or more of these classifications. The only one that does not apply to Pennsylvania's developmental delay. We have not adopted that. And sometimes it's a real disadvantage because some of these kids who are transitioning into kindergarten like it's so hard trying to cla we know they need the help but it's hard finding a classification for them. And it would be nice if we could just classify them
010under developmental delay but we can't do that. Um so when we do our evaluations we not only have to show that the children are meeting the requirements set forth by the federal government which is I just told you um my data and then also the state requirements which is chapter 14 the students have to meet those criteria number one and then secondly they have to demonstrate a need and at the end of our evaluation like we just can't say oh that child you know has is um presenting as a child with autism or this child is emotionally disturbed. We have to provide very specific concrete evidence to support that you know those conclusions. So if you look at these right if you look at the prevalence rates right across and this is across the United
011States about 32% of all children who receive services under the classification of specific learning disability it's about 32% across the country. If you look at speech and language that's our next where we see our next highest rate it's about 19%. If you look at other health impairment, it's about 15 and then autism is 13% across the country. So what you're looking at is that it we have 13 class disability classifications, but where we see the highest rate is across those four. Um now a lot of you might not know what other health impairment means. You typically children classifi or that we classify under that category are children who have all kinds of health problems and that would also include attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Okay. Um the other thing that we're seeing is just the rise
012across the country. Um we went from servicing 64 6.4 4 million students in 201213 to 7 million in 2022 23. So if you look at that as a percentage, we actually saw an increase from 13 to 15%. So the bottom line is we're seeing an increase in special ed referrals and identification across the entire country. So the most prevalent disabilities are a specific learning disability. Okay. Um, that simply means a child who is presenting with significant academic deficits in spite of all the research and evidence-based interventions that we've provided, but also in the context of their having average or above average intellectual ability. So, that's what we mean by a special a specific learning disability. Um, there are three ways that we identify those children or we're allowed to, I should say. But in the
013Scranton school district, as is almost every other district that I know of, we still use the ability achievement discrepancy model. So the children have to present with a discrepancy between their cognitive ability and their achievement. And in the Scranton school district, I will tell you that typically most of the kids that qualify definitely have a reading disability, but more and more we're seeing kids who also have math and written expression disabilities. It's typically not just one anymore. Um, speech and language. I mean, I'm not a speech and language therapist, but I can tell you one of the changes I've seen like years ago, most of the children who received this service did so because they had um articulation issues. Now, I'd say the last 5 to 10 years, we're seeing severe language issues. So, that's
014changed dramatically and that's why we're seeing an increase in that population. I already talked about other health impairment like kids who present with severe health issues whether they're heart conditions um traumatic brain injury you know we've seen a couple of kids with traumatic brain injury but a lot of the kids that qualify under this classification have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and then autism um as you know there are two hallmark characteristics of autism one is social and communication issues you you know these children have trouble interacting with their peers with other adults. Some of them many of them are non-verbal. Um so their communication is a huge issue. And then the second hallmark characteristic is repeated and repetitive behaviors and activities. So those kids for example might engage in hand flapping or they might have
015difficulty transitioning from one task to the next. um they may get fixated on certain things and it's really hard to move them away from that fixation. They may have um difficulties adjusting to sensory over stimulation. So they might be kids who they have a hard time going to the cafeteria or they might have a hard time in an assembly. But that's basically we look at two hallmark characteristics and it's just autism anymore. you know, we we don't make the distinction between autism and Asperers. Every child falls under the umbrella of autism, autism spectrum disorder. And what we look at is the severity of those behaviors and the type of supports they'll need. Um, I kind of put this up there too because I wanted you to see the difference between Lzern County IU and RIU.
016So if you look at it in Luzern County IU across these four cup in addition to preschool they have almost 10,000 students and then in NEIU we're pretty close. We have about 10,000 students too that receive services across the under those four classifications. Um the other thing is I put this down by school district. Um obviously we're the largest school district. Um I think next might be Abington Heights and then Wall and Paw Pek is next. So this kind of gives you a sense of where they are also in terms of the number of students that qualify under these classifications. I mean clearly we have the largest population across all of them for the most part but like I said our population I looked at Abington Heights today. I think they're around 3,700. I don't
017know if anybody knows for sure and I think Wall and Popback is about 2900. So if we did this percentage-wise, we'd probably see we're, you know, all pretty much the same. The the districts who have higher numbers. Um so if you look at this side by side, right, if you look at the national statistics and autism, it's about 13% of the student population across the country. Statewide, it's about 13.8. And then the Scranton school district with regard to a autism we're about 15.8. Um if you look at specific learning disability nationally it's 32% statewide it's 32%. Scranton school district it's 37.6 other health impairment 15 18 across the state and we're actually lower than the state and equal to the national in that area. And then speech and language we're actually lower too. Okay, it's
018about 19 nationally, about 14% statewide, and then we're right comparable to the state at 14%. So, I'm going to stop here for a minute. Just is this appropriate for me to see if there are any questions here? >> Yes. >> Before I get into >> the rest of this because I know it's a lot of information. >> I mean, the question I was planning on asking is what I mean, I can ask at the end if you want, but what can we do better? like what are some things if you had a wish list of what we don't do that we should be doing or can be doing that we could you know help out and and keep improving >> what our district right now is >> and just take the microphone so we have
019>> our our district right now is involved in several incentives through Patan and the state um we are um working now with our uh autism we're in second year in our autism initiative where Patan comes in and works with the NEIU and our schools. We have um three classrooms identified as target classrooms and then once those classrooms are up and they have all the information then it's we spread it out. So it it's an ongoing thing. Um we are also very heavy into our MTSS process. Um we just spent uh the elementary schools were starting at the elementary level. Um we are working again with Patan and the NEIU in developing our MTSS process. Um and they just spent six hours um this last week up at the NEIU looking at their data and identifying
020kids um and where they're at and trouble areas and things like that. So they've pulled I have to say the elementary schools um have really embraced the MTSS and they are pulling together teams so that um they can look at student behavior and academic performance um and and better identifi help us better identify kids that have academic issues or behavioral issues as opposed to a student who is special ed. I think it's really important because I just want to say something to this as an educator. I'm I'm going to use myself and I use this often as an example. I have an undergraduate degree specifically in education. I have a BSED in English. I hold three master's degrees and a doctorate in education. In none of those coursework for all of those degrees have I
021taken a course on behavior, on mental health, on dealing with complex exceptionalities of children with advanced behaviors through the Penn State partnership for the teachers behavioral health uh process. They're trying to get some of those trainings in in there. But I think one of the things I just want to point out is we are seeing a significant increase in kids that need advanced behavioral work. A and education programs haven't caught up to that yet. It's not a part of the core battery of education that you receive. Um and I think there's a disconnect Sandy on on some of those things. of what what's needed, Sean, >> and to come in and be a teacher in contemporary education. >> Right. Okay. >> So, if I piggyback on what Ann said about MTSS though, the research across
022the country is showing that we should realize a significant reduction in our SLD and our emotional disturbed population. The others probably not so much. Um, just Dr. Kading, you made me think of something. on September 17th. We are part of a group that is bringing together professors from all the 20 universities because one of the things that the research for the last 20 years as well as some different evaluations that just came out and they're showing that with regard to the illiteracy problem in our country that the one of the factors in that equation is higher education that they're not adequately preparing our teachers to be you know teach excellent teachers of reading. So we're hoping that that's going to make a difference too. So far we have 20 professors signed up. >> That's awesome.
023Okay. >> So if we have that discussion, we should see if they actually, you know, turn out prospective teachers who know the science of reading, know how to apply it, right? So we should see our core, we should see a lot of difference in our core programs, which should significantly reduce our need for SLD services and emotional support. >> Awesome. Uh Aaron, when you go to that, can you give us an update of how it goes? >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Awesome. Thank you so much. >> Oh, mate. I I have to do it as part of my goals, but then I'll do a separate board memo as well. >> Okay. >> I'm I'm That's what I'm speaking at, right? >> Okay. All right. >> I'll definitely be there. There there's one other thing too and
024there are trainings out there and we utilize them as much as we can but taking teachers out of classrooms during the day is very difficult because we don't and and it's not Scranton it's it's across I hear this when I go to the IU all the time we can't pull teachers from the classroom because they need to be in those classrooms but there's those trainings out there that they could really use um it it's just it's just not in our schedules. >> Is there anything we can incentivize and work to do it maybe after school or on a weekend or something that so we can make sure whether it's a cost or something we can make sure we have these trainings. >> So our literacy training we were able to do partnering with the SFT
025and we were able to use title two funds. So we're going to do that for the 5 through 12 teachers this year. As long as we continue to get title two funds that's the area where we can pay for professional development like that. >> Thank you both. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. So I want to spend just a little bit of time on autism. So that's really the classification in kids that have been giving us, you know, headaches. So if you I what I um did to really pull this information together is I looked at the 2025 summary report from the Centers for Disease Control. So what the Centers for Disease Control did after the National Children's Health Act was passed in 2000, they immediately created these networks throughout the country. And the purpose of
026that was not only collecting data and the numbers and everything else, but it was also looking at the characteristics of children with not only autism, but the other developmental disabilities. But obviously the purpose in doing that is so we can improve our services for those kids. But I think first of all it's important to really get a handle on you know exactly what those numbers look like. So some of the key findings um the prevalence rate among children 8 years of age was one in every 31 children in the network was being diagnosed with autism. Um the prevalence rates vary they vary pretty widely across the different networks but it's not because we think oh this different community has a lot of autistic kids because of AB or C right whether it's toxics whether it's
027poverty whatever they attributed that difference to better identification processes and um the other thing they look the the other thing they looked at was um that is present among all different groups groups, but certain children were more likely to be identified with autism, as I'll show you. And then the other thing we looked at that children who were evaluated in 2018 were two times more likely to be identified as autistic than ch in early on than children were in 2014. So once again, we're looking at like more community awareness, better identification, better evaluation processes and um so just to put this in perspective. Okay, so our national prevalence rate has risen from 1 in 150 8-year-olds in 2002 to 1 in 598-year-olds in 2014. And the prevalence rate change from 2002 to 2014 represents a
028154% increase in the school age population with autism. So um and now what are we looking at? We're saying it's also co- occurs with other types of disabilities. Um and and that's specifically intellectual disabilities. for example, you'll see with some of the slides, a lot of children we identify with autism also are being identified with intellectual disabilities. Um, so if you look at this, when I say the prevalence rates vary across all these different networks, right? You could see that in my chart. So if you look at this, if you look at Texas for example, right? They're only identifying one out of 103 children, right? You skip over to California now. One out of every 19 children in California is being identified with autism. And then look who's right next to California, Pennsylvania. Right? So
029across all of the networks, we are really we rank pretty high in terms of the number of children that are being identified as autistic. Now, as I said earlier, what accounts for that? and they're attributing it primarily to more community awareness, better services, better identification, better evaluation tools. And that's what they think is happening because in some places they were only in some places like 65% of the people were using a lot of testing. Um only 39 people 39% were using the A dose. um we use the acers as part of our evaluation but then some people were using the cars and the GARS which have very poor psychometric properties. We moved away from those instruments years ago because we knew the properties we were getting a lot of false positives and negatives. So we
030totally moved away from that. So, as you can see, like Pennsylvania, like we are really we have a lot of children in comparison to these other networks of ADHD. So, um we get our information primarily from the Pennsylvania Autism Surveillance Project. Um that's who's responsible for collecting this data in our state. And if you look at it, um, remember I said it's one in 31 across all the networks on an average, but in Pennsylvania it's one in 21 children or 4.7% of 8-year-old children are being identified with autism. Okay. Um, half of the 8-year-old children were diagnosed by a community provider other than a school district. Um, that is very true um of our school district as well. Um, a lot of the children, I think we had about 160 right this year transitioning from
031early intervention. Most of those children ha already have an autism diagnosis when they come in and that's either done by local pediatricians, friendship house. Um, Dr. Tom Chowman from Geisinger is like a prolific researcher, one of the best developmental pediatricians, like in my opinion within 200 miles. He comes to 40 for it now once a week. So, we have a lot of parents who really are going out there and trying to get these evaluations done for their children. But however, having said that though, we accept those evaluations, but then we also do our own because they may be a year or two old and we need to know how that um how that autism is manifesting itself currently. So, we have to do we do our own very comprehensive evaluations as you'll see. Um the
032next thing is among three-year-olds, boys were three almost four times as likely as girls to be identified with autism. Um as I said the intelligence quotient at least 30 almost 34% in addition to being autistic, they're also being identified with an intellectual disability. Now I have found that in some children but not in all children because I have to say this summer was really unique in that the majority of kids that I evaluated coming out of early intervention they could not participate in formal standardized testing. My evaluation consider con consisted of parent input parent you know consulting with the parent observations consulting with their teachers rating scales but they could not participate but then when I read their records like whether it was Gisinger or whatever they don't usually identify kids pre kindergarten with an
033intellectual disability they'll identify them with a global developmental delay but In essence, that's just another way of saying that they have significant cognitive deficits. So, we're seeing this here, you know, with a lot of our population. They also have, you know, they're comorbid for an intellectual disability. Um, the next thing they looked at was um that most of these kids had some documented testing in their records and some were more comprehensive than others. Um, one of the major evaluation tools that's used is called the but that's a highly sophisticated um, one-on-one type of test. It could take up to 90 minutes and it requires a lot of specialized training. So, we don't do here. The majority of people that really use that, like I know CHOP uses it, I know they use it sometimes down
034at Gisinger, but it's mostly clinic and hospital settings that use that. I'll show you what we use in a couple of minutes. And then um and then I told you this before, in 2018, children born in 2018 were likely to receive an early diagnosis before 48 months compared with children born in 2014. So that's a good thing. The earlier the better. You know, we really want to get these kids identified as soon as possible. Um now the million-doll question, right? I know you're all dying to ask me this and everybody does wherever I go. Why? What's causing it? Right? Raise your hand. Right? If you all want to ask that question, right? So, if you all be patient, right, next week on September 1st, we're going to have that answer from RFK, right? He's going
035to tell us exactly what's causing autism. So, just be patient. Another It's a week away. And, you know, I'm only teasing about that. But the bottom line is it's not any one thing. It's a combination of factors. So for example, some of it of it is genetic. So um individuals who have genetic issues, it's impacting their brain development. And where we see this a lot is in children with fragile X. The ex the next thing is the sibling connection. It's not highly unusual to have two and I've seen three children with autism in one family. And that that happens especially if the children are born in close proxim proximity to one another. Um also the twin studies are showing that especially with identical twins both of the twins are apt to have um autism versus
036fraternal twins. Um the other thing is pregnancy with older parents. Right? What they found out is that in men, right, um, over 30 could be somewhat of a problem versus men under 30, if you're 60, and you're wondering who the heck is having kids at 60, right? But if you're 60, it's six times more likely to have a child with autism. Now, I looked this and I thought, where the heck are we when we look at Mick Jagger and Ronnie Wood, right? Having kids at 78. So, that's what popped into my head. Oh my gosh, what about those ages? Um, the other thing is environmental factors like stress, exposure to toxins, like all of the, you know, multitude of environmental things that can happen. And then of course another reason is biological. Now I could
037talk to you for two hours on those causes, but um it's just too many. Next thing is just this kind of says it all. These are all the factors that are involved and considered, you know, as contributors to autism. So, um I want to just talk just briefly about the protocols we use. So, if we suspect a child of having a specific learning disability, we use a measure of cognitive ability, academic achievement, behavior and social and emotional development. We check to rule in and rule out. We review their records. We have teacher and parent interviews and then as an indicated we look at the how they responded to interventions and we'll be able to um quantify that more with the MTSS process. Um the only thing I'd like you to be aware of because John
038Coyle and I had this discussion this morning. Interestingly enough, what we're seeing with some of our kids who are moving into our our district who may have a reading disability or any other specific learning disability, if they've gone without services for a while, now what we're seeing is this progression of other consequences. So, it's having the SLD, right? They're failing. Then it's SLD failure. Now, you have kids who aren't motivated. They're not putting a lot of effort. But what I've seen as a pattern the last couple of years in our high school is that a lot of kids are now presenting with that anxiety and depression where our only concern before was reading, math or not only but you know what I mean reading, writing or math. Now I'm giving out rating scales to the
039parents and teachers looking at anxiety and depression as well. Um for autism I mean we do a very comprehensive evaluation for children. we either suspect or we know have autism. Remember I said even when they come um we know that um we have to look at how that manifests itself. So if we can we give them a measure of okay a measure of cognitive ability, academic achievement, social and emotional measure of autism spectrum disorder. We review their academic records, teacher and parent interviews and then we review the outside evaluations that they come you know that the parents present at the time of transition or when they enroll in the school. So our protocols are very very comprehensive. >> Does anybody have any I I know that she threw a lot of numbers at you and
040a lot of statistics and things like that. Um does anybody have any questions? Um, I'd be happy to answer them. I know you may want to go home and digest everything that you were just given. And if you do, please feel free to email me or call me and I'd be happy to answer anything I could for you. >> I I I am going to send one email to you just that you could provide to the board. Just in regards to the legal challenges, the section 504 being led by the Texas Attorney General in 17 states to eliminate basically diagnosing our students and providing students and how that potentially could affect us going downhill. So, I will send an information that question to you, but definitely would like some response that as a parent of
041an autistic child, thank you very much. Um, that was eye opening. But I would also say I think also the lawsuit is way is possibly why Texas is so low. If your attorney general is leading a lawsuit to basically say it doesn't exist, that might be why your numbers are so low. >> So, so understand I know this was long and it's it we have to get to the work session, but I keep talking about we added six classes, we added eight classes, we have to set room for these and that. I I just kind of wanted everyone to have an understanding of the global, the state, the statistics, what we're doing, the kind of psychometrics that we're using. We're taking this very seriously, but we in the district have went from 23 to 45
042or 46 now. >> I think we're up to 47. >> 47 classes on the first day of school. That is astronomical. Astronomical. and and as an educator I I talk in lingo sometimes and I just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page and we will send those to you and I thank you for tremendously >> just one last thing just so you're aware too our Montichello program deals with a lot of our students that normally and I know I'm old but going back many years those were the children that were in institutions they were in residential facilities and our monach cello program is really I mean we could service more students if we had a bigger building >> right >> so >> I just I just want to say first of
043all it was very informative so thank you and thank you both for your hard work and passion on this and it doesn't go unnoticed so thank you >> and I'll forward that to Ann so you have it >> okay thanks thank you thank you very much thank you >> athletics We'll have a motion to approve the West Scranton High School weight room equipment. >> Did you want to speak to that at all? >> Sure. I So, so the weight room equipment and actually, Director Yanni, the next one, the wrestling mats. The board took consensus on these. Um, it has been public knowledge that we had a significant water issue with a pipe that burst and and a lot of water in the basement of this high school. Um there's a lot of things that need
044to be replaced. We did ask the board on on a number of things for consensus um so that we can get the POS processed and begin it because there's a lot of lead times on a number of these items. The weight room equipment and the wrestling mats are are two of those items. Um I was very transparent with the board that these items we will receive some insurance money back for them but because of depreciation we will have to um fund some of this ourselves as well because it's new equipment replacing depreciated equipment. >> Thank you. Uh we'll also have a motion to approve the stipen for varsity football announcer producer and clock. >> I will be making a recommendation to move that to $75. These individuals get there a little before 6 o'clock and
045are often there from 9:30 or 10 o'clock at night. Um, and it hasn't had an increase in over a decade. So, I'm making that recommendation to the board. >> Just back to the the first two. Um, I don't know that it is as publicly known as maybe just in our group of people. So, I don't people I know don't know about what happened. So, can you just clarify again what happened >> with what happened in the basement? Are we allowed to share some type of a like significance like uh I don't want to say cost exactly but maybe something public understand yeah I don't I don't have the the numbers in front of me but I I can easily make them public public on the website. Uh in early July on a Saturday morning at
046approximately 10:30 in the morning a 3-in water pipe um that had no previous damage exploded in the basement of West Grant High School. Um there was no weather or anything that weekend, so nobody was in the building. There were no events and we were also doing abatement here and it ran until about 5:00 in the morning on Monday when people came to work. Um and there were Mr. Rucker about a million gallons of water 1.1 million gallons of water in the basement of West Grant High School. Um the water was chest high in the utilities rooms. Um it was unbelievable to see. Uh the entire basement had to be mitigated uh by specialists. Walls taken out. Uh floors ripped up and grinded. All the equipment and and things in the basement that were touched by
047the water were disposed of. So we are in the active process. The mitigation has all occurred of now putting everything back together again. The basement will not be open for the beginning of school. Dr. Stevens has been very transparent with her staff and her community, but maybe the greater district at large doesn't know this. Um the basement will not be operable for the beginning of school. The rest of the building, the environmental testing has been done and is safe for us to reoccupy um and has been safe for us to reoccupy. But we are continuing to mitigate that. The locker rooms are in the basement. The weight room was in the basement. The wrestling room was in the basement. Our tech ed room was in the basement. Our new computer room was in the basement.
048There were some offices for health and PE staff that were in the basement. And we are now bringing those things back to where they need to be. Um a lot of this stuff was older. So when you go through an insurance claim, if you've ever gone through one in your home, you know that things are depreciated. So they're not going to give you face value on something that's 20 years old. So we're going to have some financial impact to replace things. Is that >> Oh, yes. Thank you. Okay. More than I expected. Thank you. >> Good. >> Budget and finance. >> All right. We will have uh on the consent agenda motions to approve bill list and exception bill list, delinquent tax reports, treasures reports, repository sales, budget transfers, disposal of assets, budgeted purchases, and
049um a motion to accept the 2023 audited financials and single audit. That's the consent agenda. Next up, a discussion um motion real estate assessment approvals if any. >> Um not none at this time, but if something is received before September 8th, the board will be briefed on it before the meeting. >> Okay. President Holmes, under this and and director Borthwick, under this category, I am asking for a board consensus on the floor. Um, our unique curriculum which is used for our life skills and autistic support students needs to be renewed for the first day of school. Um, this was something that should have been renewed earlier. It was not. I will take on and responsibility for that. Um, I am asking for one, a budget transfer, approval for a budget transfer to allow $54,14.35 cents
050to be transferred and then for us to purchase this program. So, I would need a consensus on the budget transfer and I would need a consensus on the >> two. Do I need two or one? >> Can we just do one? the budget transfer and because it's all one transaction. So we can make it one trans. Okay. So basically just ask the solicitor can we just make that one since obviously the budget transfer is being obviously used there. So instead of taking two we're going to take one consensus. Is there anything else you'd like Dr. Katy? >> No consensus on >> yes. Thank you all very much. >> Uh and information, we have a contracts update. >> Uh none at this time. Um if between now and September 8th there are some, I will upload
051the detail schedule to the board packet. >> Okay. Thank you. Y >> community. >> Um all of our items are consent agenda items. The first one isformational. It's a grant awarded from the Scrant Area Community Foundation for an AED machine in the amount of $2,357. Uh, Director Spazaki, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge um Bert Geneala uh who is out in the audience right now. Um, Mr. Geneala has been working tirelessly to make sure that all of our athletic fields, including the ones that we lease and and have cooperative agreements with through other organizations, are equipped with an AED and he personally secured this grant money. >> Thanks, Mark. >> Thanks for Thank you. >> And then we have a we'll have a motion to approve three different donations. The first one
052is from AARP to the Northeast Intermediate for school supplies. The second is from Net Credit Union to McNichols Plaza for transportation cost for a trip to the Philarmonic in April of 2026. And the last one is from Goodwill to support um school uniforms and other school supplies needed to start the school year. >> Education. >> I just want to note that the NE donation, we actually approved that at the July meeting. That was my mistake. I got that on there. >> Okay, >> that was already approved. >> Education. >> We will have a motion to approve permissions to attend meetings or conferences. A motion to approve for state act 143 family literacy program and then motion to approve special education settlements. >> They're standard. There are four settlement agreements that will be brought to you.
053>> Operations. Well, the good thing is this is a small operations agenda for once. So, um, so everything's under the non-consent. The first one is a discussion/possible motion on the West Grand High School gym study. I am standing by what I said on July 28th that for $4,000 I believe that the board should engage both firms to do a true um look to see if this is possible and and what creatively can be brought back to us, what the pricing would be and if it is affordable and it's something that could be recommended under occurring capital and borrowing capabilities. >> Is that is that how the motion would read then for the >> to approve both at the cost of $4,000 for designs at both sites? Anybody else? All right. So then next would be
054a discussion for an RFP for a multiscope project. >> So this was something that was done a while ago. Uh we released these we needed designs on the two auditoriums, the lockers, the um door, the interior doors. And am I missing something? >> Science labs. >> The science labs. I'm sorry. No lockers, the science labs here at Weston High School. Um Mr. Mr. Laffy has done a summary of of what those uh costs would be. Um I will be very honest with you, Mr. Laffy and I detailed conversations today that an accountant and English teacher. We're trying to navigate ourselves through these. Um there's a lot of information there to review. Um and uh we need to pick one of these firms to move forward to do the design on these entities so we can
055make sure both auditoriums uh the interior doors and the science labs are done. >> And the the board will have the option to award one contract to one vendor for all four or four different vendors depending on the project scope and the qualifications. So there is flexibility there. >> Okay. There are a total of seven proposals received for that um for that RFP. >> So that's this this the landscape document. >> That's landscape. Correct. Yep. >> And so at this time there's no recommendations. >> No recommendations. >> Anybody else? >> And is there a time frame for this? I suppose so. Um between now and Oh, we don't meet till the 8th, right? >> Correct. >> Okay. Okay. So, between now and then we would get a recommendation from administration of how to proceed. >>
056Um, I think we'd have to put if that's if the recommendation needs to come from us, we need to put some kind of committee together because I'm going to tell you I don't I don't have the acumen to tell you what the best one of these is. This isn't my wheelhouse. >> What about doing something similar to >> What about something similar we did with the the legal team? >> We could do that. >> You know what I mean? The legal interview. >> If you want presentations, we can do that. that that So, we're going to for each of these RFPs, we're going to have every single firm come in and present. Can't they just give us like information sheets for us to review >> or that? Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I mean that would
057be hours and hours and hours of being shared with the board. So, the board has has all the information. >> We now have the summaries of the highlights of it. Um, we did our best. >> The cost proposals do vary in terms of some proposing percentage base, some proposing hourly rate, some proposing flat fees. So there will be some translation needed for some of that. But um you know again we we've used committees before in the past for other RFPs successfully as well. >> Will we be able to get that information um maybe by I I don't know if it's doable but maybe by the end of the week so we have time to digest it. >> We do we have it already? >> Uh I handed out paper versions. >> I see these but
058you but like there there's some of it isn't definitive. >> Um like I'm looking at ranges. It was >> Yeah, we have the two the two here, but >> Oh, yeah. I don't think you had them in your file. Here are these two right here. >> What I have? >> So, so if >> Here's my concern. >> I'm sorry, Katherine. Did I cut you off? >> No, you can go. I'll go after. >> I apologize if I did. >> Here's my main concern, and it's a little disturbing. We're moving. absolutely too slow on some of these projects. Up here we have the lights. I'll give you an example. Uh granted, last year we found out they're kind of dangerous. Well, that was last year. We're now putting it out for bid now. Now we're talking
059about interviewing. Now, uh, after we pick a engineer and an architect, we're going to be going into the design stage. And by the time we get that back, it'll probably be January or February. Then we put it out for bid. And, uh, I'm talking about here and in, I believe, Scranton High School. Uh, and now by the time you put it out for bid and the way this seems to be moving, it'll probably be a year this summer that we start actual uh construction or whatever you want to call it. Well, the kids who go and use these auditoriums when this whole process started, they would have been going into their sophomore year. Now, if we go by the way we're talking about it, uh, this project, these projects will be done after they graduate.
060I don't know why we just can't do this on an emergency situation because it is an emergency situation and we're lagging our feet on these bids and who's getting hurt on it? Our kids. Look at where we're sitting now. I mean, there should be lights uh for a Broadway production here. And the time that we're taking, half of uh our kids won't even see the stage. You talk about the um the uh science labs. How long are we going to put that off for our kids? I think we need to get our ass, excuse my language, our ass in gear and start mowing on some of these projects instead of always being obstructionist. That's all I have to say. Get it done. >> So, you were saying on the actual RFP that we're working on
061that you're working on. >> So, these we sent these out. These were now received. We're now bringing them forward to the board. Okay. We would recommend one. Director Casey is saying that I did not act with enough timeliness and we did not address this quickly enough and that it needs to be addressed faster. >> I understand that. But what's our next course of action? I know the request to share the information out so that we can vote this in on September 8th. So what are we going to do with that? Are we going to do a committee? If so, we need to obviously postpone and table. >> So that we need to table this because we will not get it done. Well, it's not. We're going to see what we can get done in the
062next two weeks to bring forward. Okay. With the first three days of school director this week, >> I will never have a >> That's why that's why I said like if it's possible. I understand that this is the most hectic week probably. >> Yeah. We spend the first two days completely in buildings in our offices. >> Yeah. Don't don't we consider um I know in the past we've reached out to consultants or experts. I know probably a lot of them that we would reach out to are listed on here. I don't know why, >> but could we look at maybe having someone neutral or impartial come in and give us some guidance? Because I mean, if you and if you and Mr. Lafy are struggling with this, how is Tiani Medical Code are going to
063know what makes sense here? So, >> I would love to be able to have an independent >> Could we consider getting someone for >> We have to try to find someone. >> This will this will slow it down and and we I'm with Bob. We we got to move. Well, let me let me see. >> We talk, we just talk. >> Let me see what we can get done to to put a committee together to meet to go over them over the next two weeks. >> The good thing is I have I have time this week and next week. We don't meet until the 8th. >> It's not like I have to turn around for Monday. >> Who's going to be on the committee? >> Aaron, the time for committees are over. I'd like uh
064Director Holmes to ask for a consensus vote for us to receive a synopsis of each vendor and that we put it on the agenda for the next meeting to vote on. >> Can we have a consensus vote on that, Mr. Holmes? >> We already have a synopsis. So, your question right there. >> Well, then can we have a consensus? >> We're not doing that right now. We're letting everyone talk first. >> Yeah, but I still have the floor. >> Understand? You made your request and I said narrate the second. So now I'm moving on to Sean. >> That's how democracy works. >> Yeah. So >> I'm sorry, but I don't think you really understand Robert's roles, but that's fine. >> Okay. >> Once again, I get cut off. >> Everybody else is allowed to express
065themselves. >> Okay. So you made your request and I said we were not going to do that this time. So what more did you need? >> I appreciate. >> Was that not explained? >> But before this is over, I would like to have a consensus vote. >> So what were we saying? So yeah, I mean for the committee like I I don't I mean if we're saying that and I agree it's not your ex your field of expertise. I don't know how we have anybody in our district to be on a committee. That's why I think yeah if we if we're going to do something I think we do it handle it how we did the legal you know with the board meeting with them interviewing and stuff like that. we can set something up
066or even virtually if there's they have questions for the firms we can try to set that up >> in an evening >> for let me I'm just trying to think in terms of efficiency what if we gathered questions submitted them to the firms and then all so like if everyone's got an individual concern or an issue um hey firms this is what the board is interested in and then all of us get all the answers from all the firms that might help us in our decision-m process >> you could do that through a shared Google drive where people get. >> I'm just thinking about efficiency because I you know I walk through this building and I see plywood over these doors. It it looks absolutely terrible and if we if we do committees and we
067interview, you know, 10 uh and all of us we're a board of nine, we're all going to have questions. Of course, >> we we'll just be here for months >> like Yeah. So, I I think it's good for all of us to ask questions, but let's do it a memo uh rather because then we then we'd have to coordinate all of our schedules. That's not fair to us. That's not fair to these people because we would never get it done in time for September 8th. So, maybe maybe by the end of the week, >> I can I can go home this evening and release a document where you could populate questions into a shared Google doc and we could send them to them. >> And yeah, each and then each vendor gets the same set
068of questions and the same opportunities to address board concerns and questions. we can digest that and then you know somebody can just make a motion on the floor. We can have a discussion about what it's going to be. >> I'm just trying to be I'm just trying to be efficient because I feel bad for the kids agenda >> to to what you said before. Um >> you said you would love to have independent consultant as like legal who could help us and guide us. I think Noah Katz was brought on rather quickly and efficiently. Um, and I think his job was to review everything, uh, be a point person for questions, and I think he would be the one to reach out and answer questions, get get answers, questions answered from the firms, um, and
069such. Um, so um, well, if we're asking for consensus, like I would ask for consensus, then if if you're saying it's in the best interest of the district to bring in an independent consultant because it's not your wheelhouse and it's obviously not our wheelhouse, so I wouldn't know the proper questions to ask of these firms um, as a board member. And I saw I saw going through the proposals as I'm sure you guys experienced is they're all submitted differently. They're hourly percentage. Um you're admitting that this isn't in your wheelhouse to determine correctly. Um and if we try to put it into our wheelhouse, I don't think that's being fair making sure that we are making the best decision. Um so I would be in favor of >> I I can do I have one
070more suggestion. Why don't we hire the architect and the construction manager once we hire them, which is going to be possibly on the then have them look at and then be our be our expert. >> Yeah, there you go. That's all that's two birds, one stone. >> You know what I mean? Like we're they're going to be working for us anyways. They're going to be overseeing the projects. They'll be our experts. >> How quickly will they start once we hire them? >> We would have to ask them if they could work like almost on >> Can you ask them if now if the vote goes through, would they be willing? >> Maybe we do offer hourly rates in their proposal. So, you know, until they could probably propose to bill out the hourly rates >>
071that would push the RFP off till September 8th. I know Director Tracy has already expressed to me his frustration with this. >> So, well, if we're hiring the architect and the engineer at any point, we can get a recommendation from them once they're on board and then take a consensus vote so that we lose as little time as possible. >> Correct. >> But are there maybe I missed see I I tried to go through these as well and I struggled. So, aren't there like say we selected the architect or the construction manager, aren't they also listed as putting in an RFP for the multi-sight like could there be a crossover then and then would they could they select themselves or no? Am I misundersting? They would just be our >> recommendation. >> That's what they're
072that's what they're going to be going forward. You know what I mean? >> Bring them up. >> Like even if we if we have similar projects that come up in six months, they're going to be our our experts. You know what I So essentially, we're going to hire hire them on the 8th to do exactly what we were going to pay someone to do. >> Might as well vote to pay the person that we're getting ready to hire. >> Make sure that it's >> they couldn't evaluate themselves. >> That's what I told them. That's what I'm saying. They would have to then >> but they might not want the project once we hire them as our >> but it won't matter if we hire them. Am I correct? They will not be allowed to put
073in there. So by them being hired by default they are removed from that process. Am I correct? So it doesn't make a difference. There is no conflict of interest if they're removed upon being hired. >> Correct? >> See what I'm saying? They're removed from that process. So again, the ideal is to hire the the person on the ETH and you guys go to them right now and ask them is it possible would they come in, hit the ground running and immediately be able to look at these proposals and say here's our recommendation, move forward and I could take consensus where we don't have to call for special meeting based off of the information they provide. Is that potentially something we could do? >> Curious. So So I may be able to take all three of
074these and message me to one one ball right now. I could absolutely put a document out to populate board questions because regardless what as director Borswick said that'll streamline where the questions are like you, we may not know what our questions are, but for people who have them, that'll streamline them. We can make a look to see is there an independent architect somewhere in the city that may be able to help us do this. And if it is, I can go to President Holmes since I've done a million things and say, "Hey, we do have this person and they can be able to help us at this cost. Could there be board consensus that may help Pat and I in the intro? If we can't find someone to do that, then we could come to
075the ETH where we have the architect and engineer on there and go with director McCandra's proposal. And that kind of takes everything together and has me working on both collecting questions and possibly finding an independent person at the same time. >> Aaron, I'd like to go at Director McCander's recommendation. Your recommendation, it it's going to take too long. I know how this board works. I know how committees work. We're getting bogged down again. And uh let's take the bull by the horns, get it done, and follow Director Mccandrew's uh recommendation. Point blank. >> You want We will take consensus that go around. Start there. Do you want to go with the motion to look at essentially waiting till the ETH hiring the person that we hire and then asking them to review the proposal is
076currently what I'm looking for guidance on >> while also allowing the superintendent to put a Google form out so that we can provide questions to her to the companies that we may have while she consistently looks for a potential person. It's threepronged. So she's consistently working as we are doing that we are also moving forward with the RFP obviously to approve um the vote for the architect and the engineer nothing is getting stalled. >> So that would include then this consensus would include Dr. Kading look looking to see if there is any yes but she's also putting out the Google form and also contacting the engineering company. We're bringing everything together everybody said cuz we're doing basically everything that >> I I think we I think we should if we're going to take a consensus
077vote I think it should be separate. >> Yeah. Agreed. >> Or the what we're voting on. Do we want to hire an architect and then look at it later? And the meantime because if we're going to ask that those questions to the architect. >> Well, so so I can gather the questions whether it's the architect you hire or not. I can gather those. >> You'll have that out tomorrow morning. I will put that I will have that out tomorrow probably by 8:30. So I guess it's it's do we hire the architect versus do we get a try to get a special >> what I'm asking for is can if I can I if I can locate someone and I will tell you how I located them and the method in which I used and I
078could get an hourly rate if I can I will email that to President Holmes for consensus. >> Right. But that person we're we're we're going to be mostly using okay for the multischool project. Aaron, I don't know why we're making this so complicated. Director Mccandrew has a proposal. Mr. Holmes, I asked for a consensus vote once again on director. >> Maybe you're not understanding. We're all trying to get clarification. So, it is not one person. I understand what you're asking. >> No, I'm asking for a vote. >> Director has all of us. >> Obviously, not if other people have. So again, President Holmes has the floor and I'm allowing the superintendent to explain so we can get clarity so that everybody understands clearly what we're going to >> Well, if you really want to get
079clarity, maybe we should move out of here because we can't hear what the other people are saying on this side because of the lack of auditorium. It's affecting us also. >> Director Hy, we're going to stand a motion right now. Direct so um superintendent, what was your director, you finished? Do you want to hire you want to move with hiring >> I mean my consensus if you're asking my opinion on the consensus I I my consensus would be let's hire the architect first >> and then and submit questions in the meantime >> and we and we circle back once we have that on the other >> so we break them up in three >> I I don't think getting the architect or talking about hiring the architect submitting questions and trying to find an expert
080it's just it's a lot at once >> I don't think you need I would say I don't think you need consensus on just gathering questions that correct that Yeah. >> So, it's do we want to go the route like a committee with the expert or do we want to just hire the architect first and then circle back? >> Can I ask a question quickly? Do we know um sorry that Mr. Joyce you are the one here this evening? Um do we know what Mr. Moran's viewpoint is on this because um per the email that um he sent to me on the first was um that he believed that these should be staggered RFPs. Um uh he said that um >> you can >> when he began a solicitor at the beginning of May, it was
081explained that RFPs for both architect and construction manager were approved by the board and he was asked to review drafts of bidsp specs and or create alternate bidsp specs to accomplish publication of both RFPs. That triggered a discussion with central administration wherein I asked if there was any restriction or st on staggering these two solicitations as I perceived that would be in the best interest of the district and I was told there was no rush but that both actions were part of a tiered bid schedule and would have to occur before the end of the year under district policy. When the solicitation for architect closed recently, several directors were apparently contacted by disappointed construction management firms complaining they missed the solicitation they had apparently been hoping for. This prompted questions to me from several of
082these directors and I explained in individual conversations to them what I'm writing to you now. We have not yet published construction manager. So, so it is my understanding that he believed we should stagger these. >> So, you're saying to stagger them? >> I think this I think if we went with the architect first, we wouldn't be voting on the other two the same day. I think it would stagger it. >> Okay. So, so construction management is not even due until >> September. Correct. We're not >> September 3rd. That is not going to be ready for September. >> Dr. Kading, could we stay with one subject first? >> Let's Let's decide the architect. Do we or don't we? That's what we're talking about. >> Can I ask for a point of order? I mean, Director Fox
083was wasn't finished speaking. >> Um, it's okay. I just I my question was if administration was aware of what Mr. Moran's viewpoint was on staggering these I understand that there was a push by some directors to push the construction management. So that's my understanding is that we wanted to let the first one play out um and then go to the next one um I don't know because Mr. R's not here this evening >> and I was trying I I was trying to answer that question by saying that the construction management aren't even due until the 3rd of September so they will never be ready for the 8th. >> Correct. >> That's I was just trying to answer that question. So if we hire the architect first and not the multischool project that is staggering in
084a different way. >> So you would the only one that would move forward then would be the West Baron High School gym and the architect. >> Correct. The gym. Yeah, the gym separate. Correct. >> Because the construction manager we probably won't need until mid year because first we need to have the design and then put it out for bid and the construction manager won't come in until we pick the contractors. uh for this meeting. That's a moot point. Bid it. >> But do you follow what I'm saying? >> Okay. So, so, so right now what what I'm trying to to take in and comprehend is that at this time we will not have the RFP for the multiscope project on the September 8th agenda. >> Correct. >> We will have the RFP for architecture engineer
085on the September 8th agenda. >> Correct. >> When that person is selected, we will engage them to help us assess the multiscope project. >> Correct. And then when we're still in the process because it's not done yet with the construction manager and they can assist >> construction manager at the earliest will be >> and they can assist with that as well. Okay. >> Okay. So then just um who's how are we getting to that point of a recommendation about architect and engineer since it's still that point that it's beyond scope. I >> if if the if the board there's how many firms? >> Eight. If the board would like to have a night where you could ask questions of those eight firms virtually or or however we could arrange that. Um, we will sit down
086with operations and and look at them. Again, I will tell you when I know where my world is and I'll tell you when I don't. Um, I was digesting some of these documents with challenge. Is it is it possible like and I don't know if this is out of rum or something but to to present maybe Tom you could have a better so if we presented them with a specific project and said cost us this out for us because it seems like if you look at them they all put different they put hourly they put percentage like what like some of them guess it was 8.5 million and then put numbers off that. Can you say very clearly we're looking at a $ 8.5 million project give us your price. So yeah, that's when I
087was looking at this documentation here and a lot of the times when you see this stuff in this in this world, it's it it's tough because then you have you get hidden fees like you get hit with tapping contingencies. Um there's a thing called firm fixed price bidding which means they quote a number and they can't deviate from it. There are lots of different ways to do it. That's one of the things I'm thinking about with like submitting questions like hey like and having Pat do an analysis. Would what Director Fox say be a fair thing for me to give, for example, we are going to put a $15 million addition onto West Scranton High School? >> Just use 8.5. >> 8.5. 8.5. >> Yeah. 8.5 is what we told everyone to. >> Please give
088me the full cost out of what that project would cost under your purview. All fees included. >> Yeah, that that is information that is essential. And a lot of the ways these firms do it, it it's it's not the it's not the easiest to parse through because like you said, it's fees, it's percentages, it's like, oh, you did this. It's that's you know, >> I think what what the plan is right now will make it very clear for us because as you know, we asked them to quote on an $8.5 million scale. Yeah. >> But, you know, they start adding in, well, here's here's our feasibility fee. Here's our here's our entire pricing scale, right? There's um you know different types of some of them have CM included some of them have construction administration included
089only for A&E. I wasn't really quite sure what what that is. So I think if we keep it down to something simple $8.5 million project what's the total cost that will help us >> permits everything. >> Agreed. >> And and Pat this is kind of a dumb question. Let's say who whomever we choose like we >> AE services and CM services should just never be together. That that is a bad thing. So those who are trying to do both like could we negotiate and say no no no we don't want your CM services but we'll take >> what I can ask is to clarify their price includes services if it does how much of this is CM services. >> All right thank you clarify to them too that if they're trying to put in for
090CM they can't have this one too. Are they aware of that? >> Is that clear? >> I think we could clarify right we say if you're selected for this we don't want >> I can work with attorney Joyce or attorney Moran to make sure that that's appropriate. Yes. >> Okay. Okay. And the last question I have regarding the R3s that were posted, could you use the architect and engineer I saw was unsealed and pricing unsealed, but then for construction management it says sealed build bids and sealed pricing >> where in the portal. >> Yeah, >> cuz construction management hasn't even been open yet. They're not doing it. >> Oh, but like under the description like when when bids open, is that open pricing on for construction management? Okay. Just like when I where I saw
091the wording, it said sealed. >> So on you mean? Yeah, because they're sealed until we open them at the scheduled time, which is on a Zoom meeting. >> Okay. >> I guess the way I read it was >> I just have one last clarification that I wanted to to point out. >> I'm sorry. I I've heard you say, Dr. Keading, several times that you you want to start focusing on education. So, what I'm hearing you say as we start school in a couple days is, and tell me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm hearing you say I think that's a good idea to bring in an outside consultant or to at least see if there's one available to help us wade through this. Am I hearing that right? >> Well, I think what Director
092Fox said has clarified this because she's now going to give me something tangible that I can look at. Okay. when I was trying to digest 100page documents and what Pat just said, "This one is this per hour, but this fees and this addition and I I I will sit on stage and say very honestly, I had a very difficult time processing all of that." >> Um, however, if we limit it to one project and say, "Here's what it is, I'm going to have a bottom line where I could say here's your most cost effective." Every single one of these people that has submitted has years of of school service, has years of projects, has local projects that could be can be toured, has you know actually a lot of them have projects right here in
093the city of Scranton. So that that side of it is very easy to answer. It's what's the bottom line on cost? And no offense, but when when Pat's in there with me and we're both trying to figure it out cuz his brain works in numbers like I've never seen, it's a lot to comprehend. And you've said that, but you know, that's your world. Aaron, this isn't rocket scientists. Um, the bottom line is I know of at least three architectural firms that have done major projects for this Granton school district out of the seven that have already submitted bids. We have history and uh I don't know why people are trying to hold these projects up, but I do get the feeling that it's an intentional way of stalling >> and the stall pardon me. >>
094Who do you think is trying to hold it up? >> Uh >> you ask a question. You tell me. >> No, >> we don't have anything here that tells us. And I apologize, but I can't hear. I >> I I'm struggling as well to hear. >> Pardon me? >> I'm struggling as well to hear you. >> Yeah. And that's why we need to get these projects done. I I mean, first of all, uh the people who know that they're stalling, they know it. I'm not going pointing fingers at my colleagues, but I am telling you, I'm getting damn close to start uh calling people out on this. We have been stalling on a lot of projects. I don't know why, but for some odd reason, we have obstructionists among us. >> I I think we're
095following the the RFP schedule. >> Yeah, I think we're following the schedule and following along with the recommendation of the central administration who is working also while educating. So again, you can sit there from your perspective. Everyone has a different perspective. You're entitled to that. But to sit there and accuse people My >> ridiculous. You did. Now we're going to move on. >> We're done. >> Then let's move on. >> Um, >> so I for for clarification, um, I will be moving forward high school gym study and I will be moving forward the architecture engineer. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Can we move on now? >> Yes. So I mean just we still want to have a discussion about the RFP for construction manager. We're >> It will not be on until October. We'll get
096it done. >> All right. Then then we're done with operations then. May May I speak to the to the architect and engineer discussion? >> Okay. So I understand and I know that there was a consensus taken on this specific RFP and I I didn't participate in it because I didn't fully understand it. So I didn't respond to it. So I tried to take some time and go back and I don't know if I fully do understand it. So that's why I wanted to discuss it publicly if that's okay. So am I understanding it correctly that there were five vendors that submitted timely proposals through the procurement portal? >> I believe it would be seven. >> Okay. So then we received an email from President Holmes saying that he was taking consensus on a sixth vendor.
097So, I'm not sure if maybe that was the eighth vendor that submitted a proposal via email and that was submitted on July 21st. So, my confusion is were the other seven proposals opened publicly on July 16th and then this proposal was received on July 21st, I believe. So, I I'd have to verify your Yeah, the dates. We opened everything publicly on a Zoom meeting. Correct. >> Right. So, I guess I don't understand how that's not fair to all of the vendors that submitted timely through the procurement portal. I don't understand then how that that vendor that submitted via email on July 21st was being considered. I understand that consensus was taken. So, if that's the board majority's will, I understand that. But what I'd like to ask for then if is if we could make
098that consensus a formal vote at our meeting >> for full transparency. >> Completely agree. And that recommendation to take the consensus was issued to me by the solicitor. So I'm obviously taking it the solicitor sends me >> sure >> a recommendation saying I need you to take consensus. Hence consensus was taken. >> Um betting on our solicitor betting it before sending it to me. So yes, we did have whatever the number was of board members who consented to moving forward with that. The during a conversation after the consensus was submitted, the solicitor did have a conversation with director Fox and made a statement that he believed it should be done there. Well, that's the solicitor's job to come to the me the board president and say stop. You expressing your opinion will not stop me.
099I've made that clear. When I say consensus, we take it. If central administration or solicitor needs me to stop, they need to be firm and say stop. Not express your opinion and then me take that as this or share as you requested. I will never share your conversation that you're having with solicitor to everyone. I will not do that. That's your job and solicitor since you two are having a conversation and I'm CCed on it. So I chose not to do that to me. That's between you two. But the request was made to the solicitor. When I did respond to him and ask was there anything wrong, he made it clear no. So we proceeded. >> And that's fine. I guess my request to you at this time is could we make that consensus a
100vote at our meeting so that we're fully transparent with the public that we were going to accept a vendor submission that was submitted after the other proposals had been opened. >> Director Holmes. Director Holmes. One second. >> Wait a minute. I asked for the floor. >> Director, >> I I agree with Director >> Yani. Speak to the lawyer solicitor right now. I understand you want to talk, but he is speaking. So, can I please get advice? >> Yes, you may, Mr. >> You need to grow up and be professional. You can't leave. >> Shut down. >> Then you need >> I don't know what it is. >> Then leave a meeting. You need to act professional. >> Goodbye, Dr. Rice. find some adult while you're out there. >> What I wanted to say is I
101agree with director total matters >> just like I did for the week. It's a consensus. Can we then just gratify it on the stage? >> We already took a consensus. >> So you'd ratify that consensus on the stage >> which we will. >> Yeah. That's only so it needs to be added to the agenda. >> That's part of a vote. That's part of the motion anyway. If we already took consensus, it has to be ratified anyway. >> Correct. >> So it doesn't make a difference. we will automatically be doing that, >> right? >> Can we just have the the legal team just send um a a memo regarding why we why their advice was to were able to accept it and stuff like that? >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Uh yes. Um and again, I
102expected Mr. Moran to be here. So, um as Mr. Holmes was saying, I did have a conversation with Mr. Moran because when President Holmes, he sent out the consensus with the information he was given at the time which said that the one firm submitted by email which was a technicality which could be waved by the wording in the RFP. So I said um it was also submitted late. So wouldn't that be something further a little bigger than just submitting through email or such? And he said hold on let's see what consensus is and then we'll have a discussion but we never had a discussion. So being as this is now being added to the agenda, maybe that is the time to have the discussion. Uh maybe prior, I don't know. But he that that was
103his response to me is let's see what happens with consensus first and then we can have a discussion. So as a board we have not yet discussed in depth um what the technicalities were of that um other submission sixth submission. So I think that maybe prior to we could have that that >> or could we have the solicitor put that in an email or memorandum for record in the board file for Friday please or >> so the and that's I'm doing it right now a legal opinion as to why it was allowable to add correct >> but but I also would ask Pat or whoever was in the room when the the just for like opening it was the firm who sent the late email or after hours email were they in the room when
104they opened it like I know it's a public opening but >> it's a Zoom meeting. >> Were they on the Zoom meeting? >> I don't recall. I can try to check the >> I think we might have to ask them that. >> It's not a mandate. So, but remember these things are not mandatory to attend. >> I'm just saying were they on and then like director Fox's point were they on saw the >> Yeah, I mean like I uh from the information we have we could get that. I'll assume they weren't on because they didn't submit their proposal until the 21st and the bids were opened on the 16th. So at the 16th they would have known theirs wasn't included and they would have at that moment probably. >> I'm trying to figure out how
105would they know? Do they talk to the firms? Do they were they on the zoom? Like that's >> right. I mean that's the thing. It's only going to be assumptions. a fair playing field or not, >> you know, kids could speculate. >> Good. >> Yep. >> Personnel. >> All right. Under uh personnel, we will have a motion to approve the personnel report, discussion motion about student interns for technology. Um discussion motion on the business office interns, and a discussion motion on the HR intern. I don't know if you want to mention anything about those before I continue. So, I I have to tell you that the interns were an unbelievable success. It's one of the best things that we've done. Um Pat can speak to you on the business department. They were an unbelievable resource.
106Chris Suma is out in the audience. The six people in tech were lights out at everything that they did. Um our HR intern did a great job. We would need to replace them with someone new in the fall. I gave you a specific reason as to why in a board memo. Um, but we want to see that program continue to flourish and grow. Uh, Chris Suma is bringing forward the proposal that the six students who worked with us, we keep on over the course of the year and they continue to work with us on break fix and they can continue to work with us on basic tech issues. Um, Pat and I had the pleasure of going over. Chris had a lunch for them the other day. They're cute as could be. Three of them
107are freshman. Um, they got careers coming ahead of them for this. Um, >> and I'd love to hear from them too. I don't mean to interrupt you, but if they would ever I mean, if they wouldn't feel comfortable speaking at a meeting, maybe if they'd probably just send the board an email, I'd love to hear about their experience. >> Chris, you could have them send their their feelings after the summer. >> Yeah, I actually spoke to them about the potential of coming to the public meeting and they were open to the >> We don't have to say a lot. I know it's it's hard to to speak to a bunch of old people about them. >> They're uh they don't have a problem speaking, that's for sure. So, I don't think it would be that
108big of a problem. >> Okay, good. >> But they were lights out. Yeah, absolutely. Uh I mean hard workers um on time, reliable um wanted to learn were sponges to want to learn the things that we were teaching them. Um it was nice to see early on, not by intention, but just by geographic. We had them separated, but then when we were able to bring them together, it was really nice to see the friendships that developed between all of them. Um and so you know just from that side of it they're already talking about their senior you know who because there are three of them that are seniors so the younger kids are asking about that and uh just kind of cute and really really nice to see everything develop the way that it did.
109>> So we're going to try to work with them during the day like if they have a study hall or something like that on some after school hours. >> Yeah. I I think the way I I put it in the board memo last week was that uh primarily would be after school. Um, but if we could get not everybody has a study hall period, so this would be 2 hours after school, 4 days a week, whatever they could do, not mandatory because obviously they're teenage kids and they have things going on in their worlds, but um, so they would have the opportunity to get 8 hours per week uh, moving forward and it would grow into more of an apprenticeship program where we would teach them more networking skills, um, different computer skills more than
110just they did a lot of grunt work this summer and I'm internally grateful for what they did, but we'll get more hands-on stuff as the program would continue on. >> And this is a paid internship, correct? >> Paid. That's that's wonderful. >> And if those students are are freshman, if they're in our buildings, they may be able to help out with seniors. Yeah. I love it. >> Longterm. That would be the goal. Yeah. >> And actually build them out as apprentices to work in the departments. >> Yeah. >> And are they any of our former students? >> Well, these are current students. >> They're all current students. Yes. So, they were freshman. They will be sophomores in two days. >> I'm being called if you said that. I'm sorry. >> The business office has had
111the pleasure of having two former college two former students who are in college >> from >> uh when one from Strand High School and one from Strand High. >> Nice. >> So, we would like to keep the students on who are current students. We would like to keep the two graduates on with the business department and bring in the HR intern. Um yes, this does have an impact to the general fund, but it's it's minimal at best. They're hourly employees and I think that the fact that our own kids are working for us and growing these skills is truly unbelievable and I think what Chris did and the start of building an internship into an apprentice programship program is really something we should look at at developing further out with a lot of our departments.
112>> Great. >> Nice. >> Thanks. >> Good work, guys. Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Before we go past it, I had a question on the personnel report. Just trying to look. I saw there's quite a few names that were on the one we already approved. I saw a few do have >> you speaking of Mike. I was just I was trying to look at the at the personnel report. I saw there's quite a few names on it that we already approved last time. I did see that a couple of them seem to have some type of financial change like very minimal, but some of them don't. So, I just didn't know why they're repeated. Uh Mr. Wolf, I don't mean to call you on the spot, but there's some names on the personnel report that are
113the same. There may be a couple financial changes. I would assume that this is just credit submitted, past work experience, adjustments. Some of them there wasn't a financial change. So that's why I was asking. >> Director Fox, are you referring particularly to one newly established department? Yes. Yes. That's what I figured you were talking about. There was a miscalculation in the number of days. Initially it was 190day employees time times uh an hourly rate essentially and it went from 190 and it was actually a 195. So when you looked at the draft it was at 190 at 334 I want to say and so we had to recalculate it with the new number of days. >> Okay. So they were they had just all put back on. >> Yeah. Exactly. Because it was a change
114in salary from the previously approved from the July 28 meeting. And so because it was a change uh we wanted to make sure we put it on the board uh on the personnel report for board approval. >> Okay. So, like I I'll ask you individually. Like there's one I see that there isn't a financial change, but they're on the same report. Is that just >> We can talk if you want. Yeah, I'll be happy to answer any questions that you have. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Sorry, I got you out of your seat. >> That's okay. >> I wanted to get you moving. >> Yeah. And um by the way, kudos to Mr. Lafy and Mr. Suma. The the internship program, it it was really really successful. We're happy to build on that. >>
115What was our fill rate? I know we talked earlier today. What was that at? >> Two years in a row. We're at 99.6% uh fill rate. We only have a few positions available and most of them are attributed to uh very recent resignations which isn't uncommon in >> I tell you what the last since the four and a half years I've been here that's the best backto-back years best two years we've had so thank you your staff all the principles too who helped interview and anybody else who's involved thank you for your work if anyone was bored and watched newsmakers I did give the HR department a shout out for that Phil newsmakers >> yeah well thank you very much but honestly it was the principles the supervisors and and my staff that did the
116the leg work. So, it was great and and thanks to the board because Red Rover, which you approved in the spring, I think it was February or March, was extremely useful and extremely helpful to make uh a very streamlined process. Uh so, that was very helpful too. So, thank you to everybody. >> Mr. Wolf, >> uh >> yes, sir. On my behalf, I want to congratulate you and your whole staff for doing a uh commendable um job. Um it's not easy putting all this together and um I I think that you and your staff really should be commended. >> Thank you. It's in large it's it's my team. My team carries me every day. So, thank you to them. Okay. So, uh back to back to personnel. The next item here, we do have a
117discussion on the football coaching stipen. We already covered that. >> Sorry. >> No, I just wanted to mention that. Um so then uh the last item informational Lacawana College technology intern. >> So just like student teachers and and student and um observers that we have all the time, we're also working to branch out and bring in more college students in to have work experience. Mr. Suma will be having um a student from Lacawana College in their cyber security program uh do an internship unpaid no impact to us whatsoever with him over the course of this semester. Um and we're hoping that this is the start of growing some more programs like this as well. >> Not that it matters. Is it one of our former students? >> In conversations with uh Lacawana College, they want
118this to be like a a typical professional. Okay. >> Uh employment program. So, we're going to do an interview series. >> Uh I at this time until this, you know, we have this conversation. Um we're waiting for those applicants to come in. So, at this time, I don't have any of the applicants. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Just another great opportunity to give some extra hands-on and student learning. >> Thank you. >> Policy. >> Yes. On the consent agenda, we'll have a motion to approve second read of 210.2 medical marijuana in school, 626 federal fiscal compliance, 626.1 travel reimbursement federal programs, 827 conflict of interest, 8:15.1 use of generative artificial intelligence and education. And a motion to approve first read of 102 academic standards, 105 curriculum, 122 extracurricular activities, 122.1 non-school sponsored student groups, 123
119intercolastic athletics, 209.2 diabetes management, and 918 title one parent and family engagement. And then we're also going to have a motion to approve 904 attendance at school events. Um, so the only thing there also is just remember we will do a first read and adoption of the changes to 904 attendance at school events. That includes the free admission for veterans, free admission for senior citizens, and the season passes. [Music] >> Thank you, Mr. General. >> I'm sorry. Are we going to keep that under non-consent 904? >> Uh, that would need because it's a first read adoption that needs a read that night. >> Okay. and relations. >> Okay. Uh for discussion, RFP process and finalization of RFPs. Uh >> um can I Director Casey, may I speak to that one? >> Sure. >> So there's
120a memo there that I gave you on the 13th of August. Uh back last September, I had put an RFP schedule together. Uh these we have now made it through all of tier one and tier 2. Um these are the tier three RFPs which would be auditing services. Um we do need to complete the current audit um and then the annual financial reports with who we're with uh banking services and bond council. So once we finish um up all of the RFPs that are lingering right now, then we will release these. This will be our next round. Um and then there were some inquiries over the course of the last year about generating revenue um or looking to means to generate revenue. One of the RFPs we will be putting out um on that memo
121is number two which is investment services um using some of our funds and our fund balance and Dr. F Dr. Sailor we've talked about this with PFM is doing some short-term investments with minimal risk to bring back additional funds to the district which is very important. Um, there has been mention on stage and at other times about re uh reaching out to e-collect and bringing that information back for board consideration. I will do that and bring all that information back to you in a board memo for consideration. And then I'm going to have Pat talk to you about the cost reduction services on utilities because you kind of have this one better than me if you don't mind. >> Yeah. So, we were thinking, so another item down in the agenda, there's a discussion motion
122for utility rate and rebate audit. So, there's I've been speaking with a company called Patriot Energy who has an extensive uh background in utility contracts with over 30 years. They're willing to come in and help us look at our current utility contract rates, which we have with PPE, which is a consortium, and also look at potential new contracts if we ever have to, but also go back and try to find rebates that we may have been identifi eligible for with the utility companies and the Department of Energy for some of the new efficiencies that we've been putting into the school, some with our large construction projects over the past five years. So, that's a smaller that's a small contract at about $9,600 cost. So that's that section there. But we would we would issue an
123RFP, a broader RFP that wouldn't just look at utilities, but look at other areas of spending for us, like something in our supplies, maybe our telephone services, things of that nature that we can look to hopefully save some uh lower some of our expenditures. >> None of these need board action right now. These are just things we'll be releasing to bring back information for board consideration. >> Thank you. Thanks. >> Can I continue now? Yeah, I just thought it was important to go over that with them publicly. >> I just want to make sure I can speak. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Uh the next one for discussion is the Thomas uh Reuters residency verification program. >> So that uh I don't know if it was director Borthwick or Director Mccandrew had asked me
124about are we checking addresses. Somebody at the beginning of the night asked us that this is an advanced program that we're going to bring to you. >> It's a very complex program that uses um a large pool of available public data to help us verify some residencies specifically targeting possibly some of our some some students enrolled in our outside cyber charter programs that may not be residing in Scranton currently. Um I spoke we've we did a uh we did a a demonstration with this company. It is it is impressive. Um I've spoken with Carbondell Area School District um who has been who has implemented it. I spoke with Delro Valley School District who has implemented there. Both of them are very pleased with what they've seen thus far. I I believe some other larger districts
125have uh are utilizing it now as well like Lancaster, Pocono Mountain, uh maybe even Norristown. The cost of it with a three-year contract is $30,198 annually. Okay. To put that into perspective of what we pay in our outside cyber charter rates, a regular ed student we pay $12,843 for. A special ed student we're currently paying $24,410 for. So just capturing possibly one or two like students who may no longer reside in this school district um would pay for itself essentially. And um again in speaking with the two districts that I spoke with uh they were they're smaller than us. They have less students enrolling outside cyber charters that than we do and they were they've already identified some students that might not be that shouldn't be on their roles. >> Thank you. >> Continue. Um
126for discussion of motion utility rate and rebate audit a motion to approve mom and pop contracts if any. Uh motion to approve um uh updated list of transportation drivers if any. Motion to approve 2526 specialed non-public and STEM bus routes. Um NEIU agreement for SAP services. um 202526 uh beacon specialist living contract NEIU19 non-public equitable service contract uh for discussion slashmotion uh contract with goodwill for uh transition services and discussion slashmotion RFP on copers and that's all I Yeah. >> So, the utility and rebate Pat had already discussed with you. Uh the RFP for copers is due this Thursday. >> It's a it's Wednesday. That is another one that by the 8th we may not be able to compile all of that. We wanted to put on here if we could give you a recommendation.
127If we can't, we'll move that to the October meeting. Um, how do you um I under a vendor I just have a question. I I'm sorry I didn't think about this sooner, but we talked like two weeks ago and you you wanted to bring it up on the agenda, I think, but maybe but I think it's crazy about the advertising. You wanted to engage potentially with that company and then also the question of political ads on Jumbotron. >> So Mr. O'Donnell and I've taken some exploratory meetings with to to give options with a local vendor, with that company, with a few other things. So, I don't have all of that gathered because we met with somebody last week who has to submit a proposal to us. That's why it's not on here. I don't have
128all that to give you right now. >> Aaron, what contract are we talking about? >> That is to do all the advertising at the stadium and the scoreboards and all the other things. >> Okay. >> So, that's why Director Fox, it just wasn't all fully gathered yet. >> Okay. >> That's all I have. >> You have anything else on that? Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second.