001All [Applause] right. I call the order special order has call to order the special meeting for April 10th, 2025. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. that way. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with justice for all. Roll call. Mr. Here. Mr. Case here. Mrs. Chzik, present. Miss Fox, present. Miss Merkel, here. Mr. McCander, present. Mrs. Yanni, present. Mr. Holmes present. Eight present. This special meeting has been called for the purpose of general legal counsel and special education legal counsel and has been duly advertised. Public comment. Yes. Thank you. [Applause] Joe Cahulie. Hi, my name is Joe Gahuli. I live at 18 Moral Street in Scranton. Um, I come to the most meetings when the contracts
002are up and just to see how it's affecting the taxpayers and I have an interest in government my whole life. Um, one of the things that I found out about the contracts over the last several years, it seems that the contracts are given to out to people that live in Lehigh Valley just as a coincidence. and why. I've looked into it extensively and I think I know why, but I'm not going to get into that. But I know that the legal firm contract is up now. It's my understanding they're pretty much all the same. Um they're proposals, but Joyce Comedy and Moran are local entity as were when the I believe they call in construction whatever as werewandi when they submitted their glor. Um, and that was with the um, situation, I believe, with the
003reconstruction and all the stuff you guys had to do. Um, and I think the uh, the third one was the bus contract, which was maybe the maybe the biggest nightmare I've ever seen in my life when it comes to government. I was totally absolutely blown away by the incompetence and again, I'm not going to blame school directors, but at that time probably the administrators. So, when I came to the meeting the other night, I was shocked when Director Yanni informed everybody here that you didn't even have the contract in hand. Now, I'm going to bring that back to the administration. And why why didn't you have it in hand? And why is it brought up at the last minute? Why are people coming to meetings when something's supposed to be on the agenda yet it
004gets tamed? This was a nightmare. And I'm I'm not blaming directors, you know. I am not. Um it's just disturbing to me that this huge school district, the biggest in the area, is what I consider somewhat incompetent. And again, I don't think I think you guys have a lot going on. I'm not going to be critical here. I got really concerned about the Gil Martin issue and you know that was just blowing off and then I guess you accepted our resignation and that needs to be transparent. Everybody knows that the existing lawyer reached out to the prosecutor in the case or the prosecutors. It's all over town. I mean saying stuff that's not Mr. Guly. We only have resignation letter. Nothing has been presented to this board of any other way. Okay. But I thought
005it was accepted by the board of the resignation letter. Any board commission? I I I would I would suggest that John Freud, your attorney, was a contact with the prosecutors and if you guys paid him, then that could get through through a right to know. And I'm not going to go any further than that. Thank you. I just feel that transparency is so important in government. Mr. Ghouli, I'm a superintendent. I will always take ownus and responsibility when something's wrong. I don't hide behind it. There was a mistake on Monday night. It was something that shouldn't have happened. I put corrective action process to the board by 6:00 a.m. in the morning the next day. I will own when something's wrong. I'll never hide behind it. Great for you. And I'm just bringing it to
006the administrator. Absolutely. 100%. I will accept when something is wrong. And let me tell you something. You guys all give your time. The directors, you you volunteer your time. You take a lot of hits from a lot of people, including me right now. But I think things could be run a little better. And it's time that we bring contracts, if they're comparable, back to Scranton rather than every single contract I know is in the Le has come out of the Lehigh Valley. Okay. Thank you. Superintendent Kitty, can you explain the email we got Sunday uh with the contract and what the changes were? The only changes that were going to be made. So, there was a contract that there was and I have to watch. I don't want to violate any kind of privilege, but
007there was a a privilege document sent to the board that outlined changes. there were formatting things that had to take place. That formatted document was forwarded and it should have then been further forwarded to all the board members and it wasn't. Um, as I put in an email to the board, I'm the superintendent of the school district. When something's wrong, I need to own responsibility for that. Um, whether it was my responsibility or not to forward it, I should have followed up and made sure that document was forwarded properly. It didn't happen and I already put steps in place to make sure that in the future that doesn't happen again. But transparency never going to sit up here and I'm never going to tell you something different or try to give you a runaround. But
008the details didn't change. It was just the formatting of it. Correct. Formatting. Yeah, there was formatting in letterhead and there were some other things that had to happen. But I can't disclose what was in that. That's confidential. Got it. Erin, I just want to tell you one thing, and I won't be long on this, but uh it means a lot to me that you made a mistake and you owned up to it. And uh a mistake, Bobby Kennedy once said, "A mistake isn't a mistake until you fa failed to correct it." And right now, I'm very proud of you. And I'll be real quick on this, but as everybody knows, I was in Atlanta. And the one thing that I found out in Atlanta and it shocked the living hell out of me was the
009average term of a superintendent is 3.6 years. Erin, I hope that we possibly could triple that. Well, Bob, I'll be 60 then. So, so everyone knows I'm 50. Christine, if you want to put that in the paper again, feel free. I just want to let you know how I feel. Thank you. All right. We'll first action is um public comment. No, we did you close. No, I I only have one person. Always. Go ahead. You can speak. My name is Barbara Ali. I was here on Monday night discussing u my objection to Joyce Cardy Emoran getting this contract based on the fact that um I feel they're meddling in the Scranton school district, excuse me, the Scranton City Council meeting or um race. I'm not certain why. Haven't been able to determine that. But I
010would still like to ask based on the contributions from Larry Moran, who's a partner in this law firm, that director Casey has received $1,500 that he recuse himself from this vote. First and foremost, I don't think it's appropriate that again, a partner in this law firm gives you $1,500 in your voting for this contract. I would also like anyone else to recuse themselves who has anything to do with the Scranton City Council race. And um that's that's what I wanted to say tonight in regards to this. Now, what Mr. Gilhoui behind me said in terms of um where a firm is located this firm of Joyce Cardy in Maran is located in Pittston. Another reason why I was concerned as to why Mr. Brenda, excuse me, attorney Brendan Fitzgerald decided to write a letter about
011conflict of interest in the again Scranton City Council meeting. There's a lot of unanswered questions about that, but one thing is clear. You did receive contributions. They're on your I'm not denying it. May I ask you a question? Sure, Bob. No, no, no, no, no. My question is, are you on the municipal recreation board? All right. F first motion up is vendor relations. Okay. Um motion to approve special education legal council. I so move. Second. On the question. [Applause] Um on a question. Um, Attorney Catz, thank you for being able to get back about the insurance question um, today. Um, being as we are on tight time and such, I was trying to put my my questions together. So, I'm I'm sorry. Thank you for balancing this with your your work schedule and everything. Um,
012I do have um, a question. The motion states for a start date of May 1st. Um, but I did not find a start or end date in the contract. Is there a reason why that is isn't a part of the contract? [Applause] The RFP stays through June 30th, 2028. The motion stays starting May 1st, but the actual contract has no start or end date listed. Is it an agreed upon term? So, the motion will cover it. Correct. Okay. And then um what about the end date? calendar years 25 to 27 oh 28 sorry so the yeah so this doesn't it okay this says the rates will be increased by I was just also comparing it to our current legal services contract which clearly had um an end date listed and that's why we were able
013to put it on the RFP tier list because it had that end date I just want to make sure that that carries over so 2028 is the last date that's listed here in uh in the paperwork. Yes. However, the PA school code clearly states and I I'm not an attorney so stop me that you can end legal services and start legal services at any time. Right. That I understand but that's why I wasn't understanding um just because the the dates previously were included in the contract in this contract. It doesn't and then also um just in past history with us um I think that was one of the complaints from the auditor general. I clearly understand this could be different because it's professional services, but um to exact the exact reason that we were able
014to add this to the tier because we had the clear end date. It just concerns me that it's not listed in the contract. Again, 2028 is the last increase that is there. So there would be no increase beyond 2028, but the PA code supersedes everything saying that you can start and end legal services at any time. So what I and again I'm looking to Noah because I don't want to speak wrong here. This shows salary increases of 2028. So in 2029, if they were still, there would be no salary increase unless a new term would be negotiated. However, negotiated three months from now, a year and a half from now. However, even though 2028 is in this document, the PA code supersedes that that there is no time limits on contract. Right. That all I
015understand. I'm just saying like our Kings Fry contract did have through December uh 2025 listed. So I wasn't understanding why there was weren't dates um listed and then also just confirming then so does the motion um supersede the contract or because the contract I that's all I want to be sure is uh we request that you execute this letter um as soon as possible so we can commence work. Um so I just want to make sure that that May first date on the motion is what would supersede any work because the contract technically doesn't have any words at all for start or end dates. Correct. And I wouldn't use the word supersede. I think they ran in junction with each other. Okay. So, the motion set at any time at any time, right? That I
016understand. So, but at this time, we're comfortable having no end date, even though our previous one had an end date listed. Yeah. I' I'd like to just ask um Dr. Katy and Mr. Laffy, is it your recommendation that we proceed with this contract with no start and no end date? Well, that you have a definitive start date. No, I'm just asking for your recommendation on this contract in front of us because this was vetted by a legal motion. I am comfortable with this is this was written. This is your recommendation. As comfortable as it was written. Thank you. It was not It was vetted through legal, Mr. Laffy. Is it also your recommendation to continue with the contract with no startation? He I recuse myself from this process on the 24th of February. February 24th.
017Okay. Thank you. Um the last question I have in regards to that is um what you just stated about the hourly increases. If you look at the contract, um the retainer cost is not listed for 2028. It's only listed for 2027. So, can we confirm? So, it would remain the same. It remain the same. There's no increase. No increase. Okay. So, Okay. So, then I would just ask Mr. O'Donnell the same question. Is it your recommendation to proceed with a contract with no start and no end date? Yes. I I would say that on the advice of attorney Katz, we can proceed with it. Thank you. So I understand. So you're saying that because it could be re negotiated at any time, although 2028 isn't listed on here. Um, you would assume it would remain
018the same, but then at any point that could be negotiated by the parties. Correct. Correct. I mean, same. Okay. No, I appreciate the answers. I just had concern with the past um things that we've been scrutinized for here not having a clear start and end date on a multi-million dollar contract. Um to me as a director, that does make me uncomfortable um no matter if um it is at the will of the board. Um my last comment will just be uh Mr. Doulie, thank you for speaking. I definitely agree with you. Um and I would just like to to make the point of where I stand as a director throughout my research and my my homework. Um you said if comparable and there were four we were told to judge this off of it was
019expert experience expertise cost and best interest of the district and um at this time the the firms that we had in front of us the experience and the expertise were far different and I'm not saying that's to each person to determine what they believe to weigh that scale themselves you know is is the local more important than um the higher experience and expertise that's to each person to make their decision um for me personally with the vast amount of special ed cases that we have and um just legal costs in general um I'm more heavily weigh the um experience and expertise. Thank you. [Applause] Anyone else? I call for the vote. Anyone else want to speak? Not this one. More roll call. Mr. Casey? Yes. Mrs. Chessik? Yes. Miss Fox? No. Miss Merkel? No. Mr.
020McCandrew? Yes. Mrs. Yanni? No. Mr. Borthwick? Yes, Mr. Holmes. Yes. Five affirmative, three negative. Motion passes. Next motion. Motion to approve General Legal Council. I so move. Second, one question. I guess I'll just say that um I won't say a lot. just in my opinion, there was an obvious difference between the two final firms in terms of experience, and I'm I'm disappointed um that our staff and our kids won't have access to the the resources that they do now. I'm looking forward to being on the record with my vote. Um on the question, I just want to clarify uh briefly. Um I'm at this point um eager to work with the new for firm because um you we need to work together. Um I hope you appreciate the fact that I am an elected official
021who just wants to do my due diligence and do my job. Um I do want to clarify that I do not have any personal vendettas. I just need to ask my questions. Um there were a lot of questions that I asked to our special legal counsel as well as some of my my colleagues and I think that's a testament to just making sure that all questions that are even asked to me by taxpayers are some of the questions that I had too. So I will only ever try to do my job as an elected official and that's it. Um I am a mother to three young children. One is currently in the district. I only ever want what's best for this district and for everybody in this community and I will never waver from that.
022So if someone wants to speak negatively about me or make things seem different than they are because it fits their own agenda, then so be it. But I will never change who I am. And I'm always willing to work with everybody. So um thank you and I hope we can continue to move this district forward. Just just I'll just follow up on Director Fox's remarks there just briefly. Um I have received criticism for asking questions throughout this process. I did reach out to Attorney Katz. We did pass a motion just last week. Um I think everybody um was in agreement that we were going to hire Attorney Katz and he we were going to make him available to us to ask our questions. So I think that that was a very smooth process. I appreciate
023that I had that resource. Um and and I do think that asking those questions and doing my due diligence throughout this process um has helped us to significantly uh lower the cost in our negotiations with the firm that we are engaging with. So I actually think I've saved the district possibly tens of thousands of dollars with by doing my due diligence in this process. Anyone else? Yeah, I'll speak. So, I wrote something down. I normally don't write things down, but um you know, over the past year, we have big decisions, whether it was the superintendent decision, the assistant superintendent decision, now this decision, we have done a process, whether RFP, um or other, you know, hiring processes that I thought have been excellent. Um they've been above board. There's been a lot of time and
024effort put into it. examining some of the questions and and being involved in some of these situations. Um for those other two um again hiring the superintendent and the assistant superintendent, it can come across as some questions that are asked and some um some questions that are asked or even like examining the legal bills like we talked about. Um it seems to me it rather than allowing the process to move forward in good faith, some people are more focused on ensuring a particular individual or a firm does not get a contract or get a position. Um, I don't understand why it has to be this way. You know, we asked we talked about the legal bills. As of March 31st, our special uh special counsel has build us 40 over 46 hours, which has cost
025us over $8,000. And that doesn't even include the April's bills. All right. Thei this situation and these in in these um decisions has created an atmosphere on the board that it's that I've experienced that is unprofessional. Um there's everything from rude comments to each other to heated arguments. Um and it's been a very unprofessional environment that I've encountered in in in handling these processes or being a part of it. And I I just ask why does it have to be this way? You know, with real life changes or sorry, real life challenges that are facing our districts right here in Scranton. I can't understand why we act like this and this behavior. Why can't we direct this energy and passion towards what actually matters like improving education, supporting our students and staff um or the
026infrastructure of our district? Why aren't we asking this many questions about the gang or safety issues that are affecting our schools every single day? Instead, we have, you know, questions being asked or our special counsel directed to watch YouTube videos from 2018 and we're being built for it. Okay, so this right now we're at $8,000 for this process and I even haven't seen April's bills yet. So, I'm assuming it's going to be if the same or even more. So, it's time for us as a board to refocus our energy on what truly matters, our students, our staff, and the future of public education in Scranton. We owe it to our community to rise above personal agendas, act with integrity, and leave a purpose. So, after this is all over, I hope we all can come
027together and just keep focusing on what matters, and that's the children and our community. Thanks. If I if I could respond just because I I believe you're directing um some of the questions that I did ask. Um, I openly admit, yes, I did ask several questions to Attorney Katz and I totaled up my total out of that 8,000. It was $1,575. Um, so that that's my portion. Um, the the cost of this non-urgent meeting this evening is $1,600. So, if we're going to compare, let's compare that. There was no reason we needed to have this meeting tonight. It could have happened at the April 28th meeting and they this firm still could have went into place into May 1st, but because a majority of my directors or my colleagues felt that we needed to have
028a non-urgent meeting and that that was a good use of of school district and taxpayer funds, I'm sitting here tonight. So, yes, I did I did do my due diligence. I think I spoke very clearly throughout this process. I think you know me, Director Mccandrew, I'm always going to do my homework. I'm always going to do my research and I'm always going to ask questions. this was afforded to me. I felt that I had questions I needed to ask. I I got those answers. I appreciate um Attorney Katz's assistance. I do hope, Attorney Katz, that you will prepare a memo for the board, possibly even for the public at the end of this so that you can outline this process. I strongly encourage every member of the public to request the legal bills and review
029my questions. I wanted to speak of these questions on the floor, but I was explicitly um told I cannot do that. So, I'm I'm an open book here. I'm very transparent. Here's all my questions. Submit a right to know and you can see everything that I talked to attorney cats about. I have absolutely no problem with full transparency. I do want to make sure that we are being transparent. Um it was suggested that we move this this vote to the 28th of April. And if we're talking about money here, that would equate to an additional $500 per day for attorney Katz, which would equal close to $9,000. So this meeting tonight actually saved us. It's an an additional 1,500, but if we did it the 28th, that would have been an additional $9,000. [Applause] I'd
030like to take a minute to speak positively about the process. Um, I think we've actually gone above and beyond. the school code does not require us to even do an RFP. We decided as a district, as a board, um, as administration that we were just going to go above and beyond. So, from the beginning, we released, it was, I don't know, August or September, um, a tiered bid schedule, and we were doing that in the interest of transparency. Everything has been out in the public eye. As a couple people have said, you can, anybody who has a problem can write to know anything. So, the process from beginning 10 was open. There were firms that applied. We had the opportunity to interview them. And I and I just want to say um because you know
031my vote is clear. I just voted on the previous motion. I'm going to be doing so again and it'll be for Joyce Cardy Moran. Uh when I ran I think I've said multiple times it's very important for Scranton um to support itself. Uh this is a firm that is based here. Uh there there are members who live in Scranton who've had kids who metriculate through Scranton. They're invested in Scranton. They already have an office in Scranton. They pledged to move their headquarters and build here. Um, so I and and I'm not going to say that that is the sole reason at all. They're a highly qualified firm. I had the pleasure of working with them when I was on the board in 2019 when they were our labor council. They were successful then um and
032and they have an excellent reputation in the valley schools that uh work with them now. So I am absolutely happy uh to have a qualified firm that's invested in this area. Um and I'm pleased to support them. Mr. homes. Um, I've always said that I wanted a firm and do business with people from northeast Pennsylvania. I said at a previous meeting that I'm very upset that this district is sending millions of dollars, not only on our legal fees, but our architectural fees to um, Lehigh Valley. Um, when we send money to another area that could be spent here, it means that our local businesses who pay taxes aren't getting the business. The money isn't regenerated. It's a matter of economics. And I will always go for the local people who pay the taxes, who pays
033the uh salaries of all the administrators, who's paying our legal bills tonight. I'm 100% for local business. Now, I'd also like to address the comments made by Mrs. Ali. Did I receive a $1,500 contribution from Mr. Moran? Yes, I did. Was it legal? Yes, it was. Did I report it? Yes, I did. And um I didn't do anything wrong. Now, since our last meeting, well, I'll get to that in a few seconds, but Uh, you got to stay in the motion. That has to be the tie. No, I'm sick of being cut cut off. I need to defend myself. You don't need to defend yourself. Oh, yes, I do. Okay. You're out of order. You need to stick to the motion. Then I call. So, yes, I can. According to Robert's Rose, you want to
034I would like to speak still. Bob, are director Casey, are you finished? Like, do I mean you cannot? Apparently, I am finished. You can speak, but you do not ask question and answers back and forth with the committee. I told you that's per the rules of the motion. You can stick to the merits of the motion. We're not doing the Q&A. I'm what I'm doing is explaining my reputation. I spent over 28 years serving on local boards, mainly school boards, the Lacawana County Housing Authority. I was a public official that dealt with many uh purchasing issues where I spent money. My reputation has never ever ever been in question. Bob, that's going off the motion. I understand that. That's another conversation for another day. We by the sunshine law have to stick to the Listen,
035no. Stick to the merits of the motion. I call for the vote. Then you can call for the vote, but we're going to let someone else speak. If you don't like that, I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry. All I'm trying to do, keep us in the sunshine. We cannot violate that. Please. Okay. So, um I would like to begin by acknowledging the hard work and dedication that President Holmes had put into this process. His leadership ensured that it was efficient, transparent, and fair. He kept each board member informed at every step, working closely with Dr. Keading, Mr. O'Donnell, and attorney Katz in accordance with our policies. I commend him for his commitment to making this a smooth and open process, leaving no room for doubt or misinterpretation. Special thanks to attorney Katz
036for his guidance in this entire process. You've been very helpful. Uh next, I would like to express my gratitude to attorney and attorney Werta for their service to the board and the district. Their dedication and guidance has been invaluable, and I truly appreciate all they have done. I look for forward to working with them until the end of their contract. I also want to congratulate the legal firm of Joyce, Carmen, and Moran on being the firm up for appointment this evening. Their dedication to the Scranton area and our students is commendable, and we appreciate your willingness to serve in this district in this capacity. I would like to take a moment to thank my colleagues for their participation in this process. As vice president, I have had the privilege of working closely with many of
037you over the last few months in this role. It has been an honor to serve as vice president and support President Holmes in leading this board with professionalism and fairness. With that said, I do encourage all board members to set aside any personal differences or past grievances and focus on making the best decision for our community. As elected officials, our role is not an easy one. We face criticism, social media scrutiny, and public opposition. It takes resilience and professionalism to serve in this capacity. We must be able to rise above negativity, accept constructive criticism, and lead with integrity. No matter how we vote, we will not always make everyone happy. However, it is our responsibility to move forward and remain committed to the best interests of the district. So, as board members, we have a
038duty to do our homework, listen to the community, and make informed decisions based on facts. I have thoroughly reviewed all legal documents related to this vote and I stand by my decision this evening. With that, I will be mo voting in favor of this motion tonight. I urge my colleagues to reflect on how we can better respect the outcomes of votes and move forward professionally as a team of nine. Our students, community, and our district deserve nothing less. Thank you. Thank you. And I just want to say first and foremost, I want to thank Noah Catz. Um the work that you've done is impeccable and impressive. Thank you. so very much for being accessible, um, informative. Um, God bless you. You've done a lot for us and we greatly appreciate you helping us navigate through
039this. I want to say to the central administration, thank you for the work that you've done. Um, when we start speaking about this, I said I wanted this to be an open and transparent process from the beginning. I truly believe 100% that we did this the right way. No doubt. I would recommend anyone that has a question, do the right to know. I will be doing one myself to collect and share with whomever wants it. Do the right to know. You have a right to see everything. But I stand behind the process and the decision making of all the directors here. While those that don't agree, I respect your opinion not to. It's called democracy. That is the beauty of our country. We don't have to agree professionally on a motion, but we do need
040to come together for the sake of the community and work together collectively. Again, we do get beat up in the community. Um, sometimes we may do self-inflicted things. We have to remember one thing. It's not about us. It's about the people we serve. Again, we ran for the position understanding that we're going to get kicked in the teeth occasionally. It's part of the job. We don't get paid. We accept that. We understand that. But again, I want to thank all my colleagues for their work. Um, I look forward to continuing moving this district forward. Um, and I just want to read something before we go. It is important to maintain a clear boundary between personal and professional. Um, as we recently said, this one has separated us. Um, there's not us against them. It's one
041team. It's one team that may disagree. I think sometimes the public does not understand. You have nine people. You're going to have nine different personalities with nine different versions on solving one problem. What we collectively have to do is find medium ground. And I believe that's where we are. You take a vote, the vote is cast, the vote is counted, tallied, you move on. I always tell people I have a short memory. I remember a vote and how it went for as long as it takes me to get in my car and start it. I have to move on. If not, you will carry this with you. We'll eat at you and it will disrupt the work that we need to do on behalf of our community. Again, I'm grateful to get through this. Again,
042I don't believe we rushed. I believe we took our time. And again, thank you to everyone. To King Spry, I want to say thank you. You came in at a time when uh we were pretty much down. You came in and saved the day. We were able to get a bus contract. We were able to get secure that transportation for our kids. And the work that you've done for us is just amazing and we greatly appreciate it. We wish you the best. And again, thank you so very much with that. Roll call. Mrs. Chzik, yes. Miss Fox, no. Miss Merkel, no. Mr. McCandrew, yes. Mrs. No. Mr. Borthwick. Yes. Mr. Casey. Yes. Mr. Holmes. Yes. Five affirmative, three negative. Motion passes. Okay. Motion to move. I'll make the motion. Second.