Vermillion School Board

001[Music] you it's automatically on olson here d peterson here jay peterson here voss lord here all united states presents america and through the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all well thank you all for showing up tonight i understand that there are some issues pertaining to that i want to make sure we have clarity sorry in reviewing the board policy there are actually two points in time in which we can allow visitors to speak the first would be during the visitors to be heard that time is actually intended for people to address the board on any item whether it appears on the agenda or not and then there is the ability for the board to call for public comment at the beginning of any item and

002since i see people who have indicated a desire to speak to more than one item i'm actually going to use that tonight so when we reach each agenda item i'll call for public comment on that particular item and please keep your comments to that item so if you're addressing the return to school plan i will call for that when we reach that agenda item if you're referring or wish to speak on the issue of restroom practice use practice i'll call for public comment at that time so at this point is there anyone who wishes to address the board on items that do not appear on the agenda okay uh thank you then we will continue on with uh the approval of the agenda and conflict disco disclosures in the expediency of the item which i

003do not believe there will be much public comment we're actually going to approve contracts first and then we'll move into the other two later items that will allow us to make sure those people who have been offered positions know that it has been approved at the earliest possible time um so that would be a just a change in the order are there any other changes to the agenda uh we do have two resignations as well okay so addition to item what we now be item the new item a will be approval of contracts and resignations very good okay do i have a motion to approve the agenda as amended so moved by shane second seconded by carol all in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed nay agenda is approved uh disclosure of conflicts uh

004in reviewing the agenda i have no conflicts with tonight's meeting this is rachel i have none jim peterson none this is carol i have none very good uh next on our agenda would be a consent items now keep in mind that this is a special meeting in which there are no consent items so when we reach our regular september meeting this is when we would handle board bills and a number of other items including things like contracts all of those items for the public will still appear in the minutes uh and i will be public they simply will not be read all the way through and into detail that we have in the past there are no unfinished business items which brings us to new business so we'll quickly dispense with the new item a

005which is approval of contracts and resignations mr alvid you want to run through what we have there uh underneath the resignations we have the resignation of grant rydell from his position as the drama assistant he's going to be taking on another role in the high school and so therefore he's getting rid of this role and then we'll fill this role uh here at another time and then we also had a resignation from jill mcbride as one of our eas in the special education department here within the district and then we had edition of tracy gilkickson for playground lunch aid as an addition heckins as a plague playground lunch aid edition tabitha heckins is also fulfilling um an ell position for us and brittany sudbeck is coming on as a spanish teacher and morgan fuller will

006be the drama assistant and elizabeth martin will be a noon duty aid as well as a paraprofessional at austin okay any questions or discussion on those resignations or contract approvals motion to approve by jim second second by rachel it's been moved in second to approve the contracts and accept the resignations all in favor signify by saying aye hi i'll oppose nay abstentions motion passes that brings us to the new item b return to school plan i do have one individual who indicated a desire to speak on this and one individual who noted general but at this time i'll call for public comment and i will begin with julia wessel and then john cole if you wish to speak on this then you would come up next and then i'll call for anyone else who wishes

007to address the board on this item most anything i would have to say you guys have already heard from me many many times so um the only thing i wanted to add to that is i hope each of you has received and reviewed the letter from the south dakota chapter of the american academy of pediatrics that was sent to the school board every school board in the state asking you again to please do a mass mandate universally in every district in this state i hope that that matters more now that there's pediatricians from our state saying please do this i hope that that can make a difference for you guys tonight and if not then i guess i'll won't be coming to these anymore because if that doesn't change any minds here or nothing well

008thanks thank you john do you wish to speak on this issue okay thank you i couldn't see where you were is there anyone else who wishes to address a return to school plan okay then the items that we have for discussion on the return to school plan are a clarification issue regarding uh when people can return to school after a negative test and i believe that that is um documented and i i don't know amy if we answered your clarification um or if we need to run through that it is in your second page there doug if you feel like we need to read that at all but and um it is basically the clarification as we understood it with the vaccinated student or person in school the masked person in school or the unmasked

009person in school and what their uh timeline would be for um quarantining if they were a close contact so what's in yellow before you is just basically is under these uh previous assumptions the mask the unmasked or vaccinated kids uh could or are allowed to quarantine for ten days but they may test out in day five six or seven and then return on day eight if um so be you know they are negative and asymptomatic so the mask student would probably just continue life as normal because they're already wearing their mask but their their day they could come back to school right away the vaccinated student can return to school right away if they wish to but they also should be masked for those days that they're in school unless they happen to pass the

010covid test and if they pass that or are still asymptomatic then on day eight they would be able to remove their mask and remain in school and then of course the unmath student has to quarantine out for ten days but on day five six or seven could do a test rapid test if they're negative then they may return to school on day eight so if that is everybody's understanding then we would we would have uh i think clarified that and that's what's written in our plan yeah excellent that's my understanding okay good that was and amy is that your okay as always we've got uh the school nurse on board then we're good good to go then of course the points of clarification are on the bottom part of that page there this is just

011a reminder that essential workers uh anybody that's affiliated with the school district you have deemed as essential workers they may return to work immediately after a close contact assuming that they're asymptomatic if they have no symptoms they may return to work the second one there is you know staff will not be you know some students are coming to school with masks requested by their parents our staff will not be able to follow students around and honor all of those requests if that is a request that the families have it will be expected that they've trained their students to come to school and be masked and remain masked throughout the day and our staff will not be trying to remember of our 1300 kids which students are supposed to be wearing masks from home and which

012ones are not okay that's that'll be the family's responsibility the students opportunity to fulfill that the third option that we need just clarification if the um if a student is a close contact and is vaccinated they are recommended to wear a mask or ask to wear a mask back to school this also follows that line of if we have students return to school that are vaccinated and the protocols are that you are to be masked the expectation is that they will they will mask themselves and be masked once again we will not be able to have a student at the high school switching seven periods a day to seven different teachers or at the middle school even in fact and having a teacher remember which student and students are supposed to be vaccinated or are

013vaccinated and supposed to be masked that will be the expectation upon their return with the assumption that they will do those and comply we will not be able to enforce that because we will not probably be uh able to see if that student happens to take their masks off in different locations but i just want the the school board to realize the expectation is they will but we won't be assigning staff to do uh policing of that the fourth assumption staff will not perform the daily health screens for close contacts that was not introduced as part of this plan and therefore we're asking all families to continue to do their own health monitoring uh doing health screenings at home and if students become symptomatic ill not feeling well obviously they go to the office they

014get their symptom checks there but they won't be part of their their mandatory approval to come back to school it's just assumed that families and students are taking care of their health needs and monitoring their health at home or reporting their issues if they have such an issue at school which at that time will take them in and monitor their symptoms and the fifth one close contacts and sports or activities we are assuming that if you are a close contact and under the mask mandate of returning to school and as a close contact that that would extend into activities for example i'm in the oral and terp club after school i'm vaccinated i'm wearing my mask because i was a close contact at the end of the day i should be wearing my mask to

015oral and terp that evening and through the competition that night if there was such an activity if i'm a volleyball player i should be following those processes at school then at the evening i should be wearing them at practice and things like that in other words there's no stopping of these masks just because the three o'clock or 3 15 time period school stops if it's a school extended activity they're expected to continue on with those protocols just like we did last year so those are the five areas that i just needed to make sure that we were all up to speed on because some of them had not been addressed in the previous plan comments or questions uh in the email that we got from amy about some of the challenges of being able to

016implement the plan that as as you know as we were sort of trying to be as thoughtful as we could some things we didn't anticipate one of the concerns was that we have not had any applicants for the second nurse position and we were struggling to find something is that something that we can offer a sign-on bonus for or increase the pay for to try to read because that continues to be an issue regardless of what we decide on some of the other elements of the plan great question in fact yes the finance committee did uh have some discussion with this and we'll have it again tomorrow but in discussion with a few of the board members that was an incentive that will be pushed forward and offered and we have started the interview process

017so uh that has been an attractive bonus not not only for the health nurse but for our para positions and some other hard to fill spots and to be sure these people will assist with the testing that we had planned as part of the one of the major functions is carrying out that piece of the plan yes they'll be introduced to all parts of the plan but quite honestly um amy will probably still be the chief administrator of of most of the covet plans and the implementation where the health nurses or the nurses staff that we hire to work with amy will be to be assigned to the buildings to take care of the daily needs of students including anything that happens at recess or lunch or medication disbursement but amy will be largely in

018charge of the testing protocols but in her absence the other two would be available to do that any other questions yeah i think our intention with having a different allowing for in-school quarantine similar to what we had last year for vaccinated and for masked kids um sorry yep okay i think our intention in allowing for and a version of in-school quarantine similar to what we had last year was to provide an incentive for people to be vaccinated and to wear masks because it would prevent the likelihood that your student would be out quarantined for 10 days but i think in that case we were assuming that we were going to have the ability to to test pretty frequently and that we were going to have some sort of level of enforcement mechanism of that requirement

019to mask on campus i think that and i totally understand the the inability of the staff to be able to do that given the logistics of that but given that and the increased rates that we have in our community i would think that it may be time to rethink that in-school quarantine provision if we can't keep track of who was masked and who was vaccinated and go back to having an at-home quarantine for those for all students any student who was a close contact to be back into that at-home quarantine protocol if we can't find a way of sort of reliably responsibly keeping track as a farmer's wife i'm super excited to hear the rain by the way especially with the rain we can't hear you i can't can't hear um i do want to

020kind of add just that the muck also does provide on campus daily testing that is currently being staffed from ten to two i know stanford as well as vermillion medical clinic are also working on beefing up their testing capacity because we we do understand that it's important to continue that testing that frequency to be able to to get things progressing and to keep on track of it so just want to encourage the community as well that there is rapid testing available at the monster university sun center monday through friday 10 o'clock till two o'clock other comments from the board okay so then i i don't know that these are all clarification items so there isn't a specific action that needs to be taken on these items um so that brings us to the now item

021c the district district restroom practices uh and in uh kind of quick review of that the issue came up at our last special board meeting and as with any special board meeting such as this one when a board member requests prior to that meeting and prior to the publication of the agenda that a topic be brought up for discussion it can and will be added there was at no point any intention to try to discuss a a difficult sensitive and important topic outside the eyes of the public that is never our intention any formal policy change just by way of reminder requires reading at two successive meetings so that there is always an opportunity for public comment not once but twice tonight's agenda item is really in response to the discussion from our last tuesday

022meeting which said could we please seek some additional guidance and because we had requested that we would need some time to discuss tonight so before we get into that particular agenda item discussion among the board members i will now open it up for public comment specific to district restroom practices so julia you get to speak twice anyone else you're always welcome to choose multiple topics but julia wessel i really don't like speaking at all but here i am um first i'd like to address some comments that mr alvey made to the plane talk um first off i i really feel like this really shouldn't have been trotted out into the plane talk but it was and now we have quite a crowd um first he kind of acts like this is a very unsettled legal

023area and i would like to clarify that it is not an unsettled legal area while the supreme court of the united states has not ruled on it nor has our circuit the eighth district they have not um but when that does not occur we look to districts around us for rulings there are over 40 rulings in support of transgender inclusivity in restrooms and only maybe four that have ruled in any other capacity in our circuit there is one case that involved transgender employee and it was found that the employee using their preferred bathroom did not infringe on the rights of other employees so that is the only case i'm aware of in our circuit however like i said precedent still holds from 40 other cases in other circuits around us that's the legal issue that

024i do feel it's more subtle than perhaps was told to the plain top on a personal level i'm very thankful that my transgender son did not come out as transgender before the age of 18. so that this was not something that i had to deal with while he was a child i cannot imagine it it was very difficult for me and it's difficult for me to speak to you it was not something that i felt was in line with my morals at the time and i'm thankful that my son had the patience and the resources to educate me as to the biology and the science that we know today about transgender minds brains bodies that was not something i learned in high school college i'm not even sure if that research existed when i was

025in high school or college and i'm very very thankful that he took the time and cared enough about our relationship to do that but i would like the people who are about to speak to keep in mind that there are many of us in here who have children who are transgender and it's not necessarily something that we agreed with in the beginning but you know what we don't have to agree we don't have to understand their experience all we have to understand is that they do have a different experience and a different perception from us and at the end of the day a person should be able to pee where they feel comfortable and that's really all it is but i think all of us would like to handle our personal business in the place

026where we feel comfortable to do so and it really is that simple i have other children who are not transgender and they don't care i asked my 13 year old son as i was heading out i'm like hey you want to go listen to this and he's like nope and i was like well what do you think like i mean if a girl trots into the boy's bathroom and you know because she chooses to live as a boy or feels she is a boy or whatever like do you care he's like nope i'm like would you care if it was the other way around like a boy lives as a girl wants to use girl's bathroom like do you care at the middle school does it matter he's like no doesn't matter p where you

027want to pee and i'm like all right well there you go and that's really by and large a huge generational difference that i see in my children all of them i have children ranging from 9 to 27 and all of them honestly do not care one iota about this issue or who uses a restroom near them they just don't care it's a non-issue to them and so i really hope that people here can just make it the non-issue that it is and just can we please just use the restroom where we feel most comfortable and if you don't like it use the door man like it's not that hard to do your private business in private but there shouldn't be anyone upset over this there this shouldn't be this is just an equality thing it

028is simply the right to be comfortable in your own body for a most basic bodily function that's really all it is thank you thank you uh mike phelan and i will also comment we're going to try to have everyone keep to five minutes so rachel you're keeping time you'll give people the one minute warning thank you uh thank you board members um sorry a couple notes there um so again i also watched the coverage last week in last week's meeting and i absolutely agree um let kids in the district pay where they're comfortable being um it's not a big deal mr alvi made a comment last week that this might be like the most important issue that the school board faces and i don't think it needs to be that big of a thing this

029is like as as i'm sorry i just said most of our kids just are totally fine with this right be something we do quickly and move on um certainly in a year where we have coveted going on i don't think this like remotely counts as one of the biggest things that the school board has to face um looking at the the footage from last week there was a lot of comments and a lot of questions and uncertainty around um safety and restroom things if we made a change like this there's a perception that people are saying oh i'm going to be transgender for a day so i can follow this person into their bathroom um or that you know somebody's gonna take advantage of this policy to to go in and commit some active violence

030or something in a bathroom um and i don't know if you guys are familiar with this but that kind of the research says that kind of thing just doesn't happen there are virtually vanishingly few cases of any kind of incidents like this anywhere in the country transgender kids are very very much more likely to be the victim of bullying than any kind of perpetrator bullying in a bathroom situation there's a 2018 study out of massachusetts where they took towns cities of all different sizes matched on all kinds of different levels of social issues population size voting makeup all kinds of match different ways that differed only in whether they had a gender affirming bathroom policy or not um they looked at months before they implemented these policies once after and the incidence of violence or

031assaults or privacy invasions in any bathroom anywhere in those towns went down compared to matched towns that did not have these policies um first off there were very very few incidences of any kind involving crimes and bathrooms most of the ones that were drug overdose things that don't come into play in this but the gender affirming bathroom policies in public towns led to decreases in violence so that issue that came up last week i think should probably be a non-issue the last thing i want to say real quick uh is that for a lot of transgender people that fact about themselves is not something that they want to share widely it may not be something that they're ashamed of but it's something that they don't need to tell to everybody every time especially kids in

032our schools and to have that kind of very personal secret about themselves um not that there's something they're ashamed of but a personal secret i want you guys to think you know what we're talking about policy tonight and been voting on it next week possibly um as you go through the week every time that you use the bathroom this week at school at work every time that you walk to the bathroom if you think about somebody possibly having to reveal your most personal information your most personal secret to your boss to your co-workers every single time that you go to the bathroom how does that make you feel as you go through the week i actually want you to think about that this week okay thank you thank you shannon fairholme um are we still

033supposed to say our name and our address please your name is sufficient okay maybe i'm loud enough i carry okay thank you um first i want to thank each of you because i know what a hard job that you have and i want to thank you for your time and your service and all your effort um in your research and and everything that you do for the children of this district and for the individuals in our community tonight i know that we have a topic that will be discussed here that's important for a host of reasons and that could have long-term implications for our school district i am here to listen to your discussion to your thoughts and your proposals this evening there are many individuals whether facing this audience tonight or not that can't

034that want to be heard and some just want to listen so i hope no i pray for a kind and civil dialogue this evening thank you lindsey jorgensen good evening i come today as a parent of a child who attends vermilion school district i am in support of a practice change and policy implementation that is consistent across this excuse me consistent across the district i strongly support the children are able to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity as a parent of a child whose gender matches the sex he was identified at birth it would be impractical to ask him to use a separate bathroom he's also a child that has pretty strong empathy and he will ask me why his classmate has to use a special bathroom singling these children out is not

035acceptable or good for their mental health to support mental health safety in our schools ensure that everyone gets the same education a practice change and policy implementation is necessary i fully support the rights of all children i just want to teach him not to look under the stall at anyone else's going to the bathroom thank you thank you mark daniels i'm gonna d-mask for a bit here i usually don't need a microphone but just in case it's really beautiful to be in front of this uh great body here both on this side and out here too seeing neighbors and people who i'm connected to in so many different ways you know former and current uh colleagues at work um i'm really grateful to be here like my name is mark daniels and i'm a uh

036a dad of six kiddos five who've gone through the vermillion school district and one kind of right in the middle just started middle school a couple days ago and uh is excited about that and i'm uh i'm a dad too of my second oldest son is a transgender man dylan daniels and some of you know dylan just graduated from usd and took a job as a nurse up in sioux falls and we're excited about that and dylan came out when he was in his early um so these weren't issues in the same way they are that we're speaking today but they were issues for him even then what it meant to uh you know where he could go to the bathroom where he couldn't that kind of the safety issues related to that and i

037want to share too i'm a board member part of the founding board of the transformation project a wonderful organization in our state that supports and empowers transgender youth and young adults and their families and that looks at educating our communities about gender identity and gender expression so i come in that space and i've been asked i'm going to spend my time reading a letter that i was asked to read by a family in the district and i i guess what i one other thing i'd like to preface this with you know this isn't about one kid you know this is about you know there's probably i would guess if i'm guessing i would say there's probably a over a dozen and maybe two dozen kids that this is going to affect right today i mean

038this uh and and so it's not it's not just it's important um that we figure out a policy that's really going to serve us well and i guess one last reminder and then i'll get going is you know you might know that saturday marked the 58th anniversary of the march on washington the march for jobs and freedom and and i think it's in that same spirit that we're holding this meeting here today a spirit of inclusion and so let me read this uh letter that i've agreed to read i also have to apologize that i broke my good glasses and so i might have to have it like this close and have my glasses up so that's what i'm going to do dear vermilion school board we are parents of a transgender student in vermilion

039public schools we're asking dr daniels to read this letter rather than doing so ourselves because we feel it's important for the board and the community to know why we are pushing for this change at the same time we believe that each of us have a right to privacy if we stood up and read this letter ourselves we would be violating not only our own privacy but that of our child we know the board wants to hear testimony from people directly affected by this issue speaking to you this way ensures that we can do that while maintaining our child safety we never intended to get deeply involved in transgender rights like many people we supported lgbtq rights in the abstract but were content to treat our friends and family and neighbors kindly vote for politicians we

040believed in and cheer at the occasional parade we didn't see ourselves as activists and we certainly never expected to be dry a driving force behind a meeting like this one then we had kids things went along more or less as planned for the first few few years haircuts and clothing styles were doled out based upon our assumptions about who our kids would grow up to be you have this set of body parts therefore you must get that kind of swimsuit was our implicit reasoning they wrestled with each other they sang silly songs and they each played with whatever toys they liked best that day sometimes a dinosaur sometimes a princess doll at three years old though we started noticing a pattern the kid we dressed in boy clothes for preschool came home grumpy many days

041but lit up into smiles and giggles when allowed to change into a princess dress at home the kid with the boy haircut was jealous of mom's long curls one night we were reading a bedtime story together and our kids stopped us to say do you know a secret i have a girl a heart soon after turning four the kid with the boy name and the kid we would talk about saying he did this and i love his smile got into the car upset after another day of preschool why does everyone keep using the wrong words our kids our kid asked don't they know they're supposed to say she and her to me don't they know i'm really a girl by then we knew too most people we tell this story to ask us something like

042how how could a kid that young know they're transgender how do they even know that's a thing the answer is they don't kids don't know about the big social issues facing the nation they don't have the vocabulary or the interest to learn it but kids know who they are our daughter didn't choose to be transgender or choose to be a girl any more than you or i express ex explicitly choose not to be transgender or choose to be a boy we've known who we are since we were very young as parents we're here to make sure she can grow up to be the person she dreams of being the same as every parent of every other kid in this district in virtually every way our daughter is exactly like every other girl in her class

043she has the same hobbies she wears the same kind of clothes she wears her hair in the same style they do line all the kids in the grate up in the cafeteria and you won't be able to tell the transgender kids from the rest until it's time to use the bathroom the whole time she has attended vermillion public schools our daughter has been told that she needs to do this one thing differently than every other kid in her class and of course the other kids want to know why substitute teachers want to know why she turned left to go to the bathroom when all the other kids turned right why it took her so long to go to the bathroom when it's right across the hall not realizing that she was only allowed to use

044one bathroom in the whole building much further away than the bathroom everyone else gets to use her only choices seem to be either accept these reprimands and subtle accusations ignoring the questions from her classmates or to reveal one of the most intimate personal things about her body to people she barely knows that's not okay we're not here trying to start a revolution our kid just wants to pee in peace research on places with gender identifying gender identity affirming bathroom policies show this the same or fewer incidents of violence and privacy invasions compared to places with restrictive bathroom rules study after study shows that transgender kids who face harassment in school have markedly worse social and academic outcomes than those who don't kids who are outed by their schools via bathroom policies and other discriminatory policies

045are more likely to use drugs than their peers they're more likely to have mental health problems more likely to be diagnosed with depression controlling for other relevant variables a transgender student whose school forbids them from using the bathroom matching their gender idea identity is twice as likely to attempt suicide as a transgender as transgender kids whose schools affirmingly support them in listening to last week's school board meeting we were encouraged by the majority of the school of the board's comments in support of the needs of transgender students the board frequently noted that they would like clarity from families of transgender students as to the exact as to exactly what we're seeking with much debate centered around whether the district needs to change in policy or procedure or practice surrounding bathroom usage we'll tell you that

046to our kids it's all the same the principal tells them not to do a thing they don't go searching for the legal ground grounding for that directive we would like to change to gender affirming bathroom rules across all schools to have we would like a change to gender to gender affirming bathroom rules across all schools to happen as quickly as possible and affirmative statement consistent across school buildings that transgender students can use restrooms matching their consistently affirmed gender identity as parents we would like this to be mark i i wanted to be sensitive time is there and i did grant the letter to be a separate entry since you're reading on behalf so 30 seconds right to be written sorry about that as parents we would like this to be a consistent written statement that

047we could point to without having to re-fight this battle each time our child our children moved to a new building from last week's meeting sounds like it could happen immediately and might fall under a change of practice mr alvey said last week that in his opinion the district cannot legally be forced to make this change regardless of the fact that several other districts across the country have been forced to do so at great expense but when the reality is that a student's every trip to the bathroom makes school a less pleasant place to be makes drug use and depression more likely make self-harm and even suicide more likely we're hoping that the board will not wait until forced to do the right thing we ask the board to make the clearest possible policy consistent across

048every school in the district letting our transgender students know that vermillion public schools support them thank you jacob skelton hello again uh jacob skelton um i have three kiddos uh ages eight six and three um i was concerned about the the previous uh meeting in regards to uh allowing biological men into biological women's restrooms this scenario in our mind shouldn't be allowed and we currently have two daughters in the school system and so safety is our primary concern for them ahead of any hurt feelings or feeling uncomfortable certainly we want everyone to feel comfortable at school but that should not take precedent over the physical safety of of our daughters from what i understand the current policy is if a student desires to use a restroom that does not match their biological sex they're more

049than welcome to use a single stall unisex restroom hearing what this looks like it actually sounds like a reasonable response so i don't understand why this isn't a workable solution if we really want to go down the route of making sure nobody knows bathrooms then the only solution would be to have no shared bathrooms everyone needs their own individual bathroom currently there is just 0.3 of the population of our state that identifies as a sex different from the one they were born with this means you would be sacrificing the safety and privacy and common decency of the 99.7 percent for a small fraction in order to make them feel better i want everyone to have a great learning environment we love our kids that's that's why you guys do what you do and that's why

050we parent our kiddos but you can accomplish the goal without the massive risk and expense to the majority of students that are not affected that way we can see how this plays out in history just earlier this month there was a report of women inside an all-women's prison getting pregnant this was a result of a new law in california that allowed biological males in prisons if they identified as women prior to this this type of thing never happened unfortunately many are afraid to speak up as they don't want to be labeled negatively and so they give in to who seems loudest i thought an article by elizabeth levitt a medical doctor summed it up well she says quote an association of american physicians and surgeons released a statement about the importance of separate facilities for

051men and women to protect public safety attempts by activists groups to force businesses or governments and facilities to harm threaten demean or offend women and girls who do not want to share facilities with biological males are to be resisted and condemned as immoral irrational oppressive in contrary to public order human rights public health and our founding principles the doctor that i quoted it works with all kinds of gender issues and she said at the time a transgender transgender patient has undergone surgery to become a new gender then it's appropriate for them to use the bathroom facility under their gender reassignment until then common sense and public safety should require those with male genitalia regardless of self perception to use the male bathroom and the same for the women as well she said in her counseling

052and working with people several striking denominators are emerging over the years there's unpredictability and uncontrollable sex drives lack of empathy can't predict when these types of sexual assaults can happen and statistics show that women and girls are overwhelmingly the victims in such sexual predatory cases separate bathrooms locker room facilities for men and women helps provide physical and psychological safety for our women and girls from those who wish to do them harm well such safety issues may apply to men as well it's less probable because it usually the female is usually the victim that's the end of that quote currently i feel like the policy is working well working out individually with the family and caring for the child if in not at the expense of our girls if you go with a new policy so

053if you do you'll be held responsible for many future cases and i know none of you want that we don't want that as well and so i pray that you seek wisdom and do what is right thank you for time thank you harvey ah thank you for this time yes my name is harvey open pastor here in town and i want to echo the previous speakers comments as a pastor i'm required responsible for god to care for our congregation certainly all our families and individuals of all ages and certainly i think as adults obviously we are to teach and counsel children we do that we don't expect them to be making life decisions at their age life changing decisions something that's irreversible and so forth and i can just say i have to hold you

054god's word and i think we all are responsible to do that really god's word is truth and our government even was founded really on basic principles of the scriptures the truth i know we're getting now sadly enter a time of our culture where uh truth is being denied it's being twisted in so many ways even some who would deny something as simple as mathematical truth but it's rather strange you know as you are a school board to be teaching and counseling children uh and now we're having questions about something as simple as biological truth what a child is born with and so you know i think in loving care for count and counsel that's what is needed not for this kind of thing that can endanger and cause serious consequences for those who do have

055a problem with this and do have having transgenders come into a bathroom that's not theirs and so forth loving counsel is really what is needed not accommodation as it were which is really harmful i think by common sense scripture truth uh trying to care for a very small percentage of 300 students what are we talking about a couple dozen which i feel for but they need counsel and care in other ways than to try to crop cause problems for the vast majority and and something that's not been a case not been something that was considered in past generations and common sense and truth is what you need loving care and counsel and i hope you can stick with the you know policies of not of having why do we have separate bathrooms even for men

056and women well there's reasons for that there's reasons to do that for our little ones that we're trying to protect thank you thank you lacey i apologize i can't read your last name bail lacey bail not very flattering that's okay don't tell that to him um i suppose we all know that i say this with love god did not send his son to die on the cross for a few but he sent him to die for everybody so i'm going to read this hello my name is lacey bale god has entrusted me to be the mom of four incredible children part of that trust comes in with protection god is expecting me to protect my children that also means teaching them right from wrong and to obey because god wants us to because our love

057for jesus with that said how can i honestly say to god our creator that i am protecting my child to the best of my human ability by sending her to school where a boy who may that day decide to identify as a girl can walk into a bathroom and have private access to violate my daughter or vice versa with my sons if someone were to be violated who is to blame the child who had rights to go into the bathroom or the school that allowed it to happen where is the accountability if a child is violated that stays with them for the rest of their life they don't just forget it happened like a bump or a scrape from childhood that opens the door to many health insecurities and that any child should have to

058go through i sure know that if i was peeing in a public bathroom or wherever and a man walked in and started doing his business i would be traumatized i would feel violated i'd be scarred for life there is a reason adam and eve hid once they ate the fruit from the tree of good and evil they were embarrassed to see one another because it was different and it felt wrong so they covered themselves up and hid from god we all know that not every child has a perfect home life and do not always feel safe at home for some children school is their safe haven it is where they are loved on by their teachers and staff and friends what happens to those children if they no longer feel safe and secure at school

059because they are terrified to go to the bathroom because someone who of the opposite sex walks in who wants to live in fear why make children live in fear at all lastly my children need to learn the anatomy of a body the appropriate way not walking into the bathroom and seeing the opposite genitalia children's brains are still forming they are still growing if we poison our children with this garbage then they will rot you cannot expect a healthy plant to grow and be fruitful if you are constantly poisoning it as far as the solution to the issue i'd recommend keeping the policy as it was if there is a select few who are confused or struggling then they should absolutely be provided with a private bathroom for them to take care of themselves and without

060having fear or insecurities god wants us to love all without judgment and like i said before no one wants to live a life in fear todd nelson good evening good evening everybody todd nelson um i'm uh the father of two daughters that both attend jolly elementary as a father especially of girls i will always feel the responsibility to protect them i cannot put strongly enough into words how much i am against the idea of eliminating uh gender-specific bathrooms and the devastating results it would lead to the vermilion school board website states you are supposed to represent the community's beliefs and values you would be failing both of these if you move ahead with this agenda the idea that some on this board are already in favor of this as a plane talk put its changing

061practices in a fairly short time i don't know what that means it scares me and it should scare everybody watching everybody listening tonight or in the next few days um i'm just going to call this out for what it is it's a very scary policy dream with guaranteed disastrous consequences there was a comment by a board member concerned about the stress for those who use bathrooms that don't align with their assigned gender at birth what i what i worry about is what about the vast majority of kids that will immediately feel uncomfortable unsafe with this policy change i've heard about kids that already have trouble using bathrooms this will only increase their levels of anxiety what about the actual what is the actual ratio of kids that do not want this i cannot believe if

062asked a majority of current students would be in favor what would happen if a girl that is 11 or 12 gets sexually assaulted by a male student or an adult the quality for equity sake what if 11 or 12 year old boy is sexually assaulted from this open bathroom policy what would you say to those parents uh what would you say to me as a father of two girls if they would wear a victim from this action bathrooms are a non-supervised space where bad things can happen very quickly have you asked teachers and administrators how they feel about this i have and you should i guarantee you i promise that you will hear a lot of concerns over how to handle that from their perspective what happens if a female student needs privacy for a

063private health reason and a bunch of boys decided it's funny to go to a previously girls only bathroom because we would have no rules anymore to the women on this council or this excuse me the school board was there a moment back when you were a student and a situation like that would have absolutely devastated you kids can be cruel so can adults as an adult the worst kind of cruelty is not standing up for our children now that you are in a position of power will you stand up for our children against this ideology children need stability and trust that they're in a safe environment provided by the adults in their life and if you move forward with this you would be destroying that i think we've learned the past year that when we

064allow bad things to happen innocent people are the ones that get hurt we've also seen that parents are taking a stand protect what is most important to our kids or what is most important to us excuse me which is our kids to the listening public if this goes through i asked what's next if you voted in the last election for someone that is now pushing for this do you feel as though your values are being respected while i am being i am frustrated by the support of this move by some of the sport i do have hope i have hope that we live in a community that will not sit back and accept this to be forced on us and our children i have hoped that enough of you on this school board will take

065a stand and actually represent this community's values and beliefs if you want to add additional small family bathrooms to the new school layout being proposed now is a wonderful time to get that done as we are about to vote on a new building however do not create a bathroom policy that disrespects my children's privacy comfort level and safety before you take any action on this issue you better have done the research and most importantly you better have conducted a very thorough discussion with the parents students teachers and the school administrators that trust you to make this policy decision james bonsack did i pronounce that last name correctly yeah bonsai that's correct thank you um so i have four children all four of them have gone through the school district i got three they're in there

066right now i have a sophomore junior and then a six fifth grader sorry um the policy that's in place now i'm in support of changing that i am not in support of uh it goes against my religious beliefs it goes against what i think is safe and it goes against the safety of my children and that's really all i wanted to say thank you john cole uh good evening council for board i'm here today as a citizen of the community i know most of you know me in my work capacity but i just want to clarify this is as a citizen um with obviously knowledge of some safety issues one of the things i know there we talked about stats earlier uh one of the things that obviously i'm concerned about is the children's safety

067both sides both sides of the safety um currently right now uh there was a think tank study done by ucla that has 68 of transgender people when uh using restrooms were either bullied physically abused made fun of things like that in dc there was 70 percent also had received some kind of abuse whether physically or emotionally so studies are out to their shows that when they use the gender of their choice bathrooms they did receive some kind of bullying harassment now part of the study that i don't know is that adults was that children if that was adults i don't know how we can expect the children to behave better than adults because we all know children are not able to think upon reason their prefrontal cortex is not fully developed their impulse control isn't

068there we deal with that all the time as parents i currently have two students or two children that are not in the school district and then i have a girlfriend that lives with me now so i i'm a guardian for two students that are now in the school district so i have concerns there as well i literally just before this meeting had a conversation with child mind who's a teenager who is now having to have extra time to just worry about changing for gym in a locker room um that child is not identifying as an opposite gender i think that is just the teenage hormones and issues that the teenagers dealing with just with puberty alone i cannot imagine having to then amplify that with other students that are having those issues on top of

069that i speak in opposition of changing the policy i think it is an issue of safety on both sides i think that if the school board would want to change things and i do support equality i think then you would have to look at okay what what can we do for the bathrooms were originally not made to separate segregate sexes they were originally made because of budgetary reasons you have a large bathroom you can facilitate a large number of people going in using the bathroom at once it's not like a house where you just have one or two people in the household that uses one bathroom so from budgetary reason in order to facilitate the best way to support equality is you'd have to make every single bathroom an individual stall or unisex bathroom mr

070kosher i think that would be your field on figuring the budget on that one and i can't imagine what you want to do for that so i would say if you were to do something you'd have to do it that way the the school currently right now has some unisex bathrooms that are not only used by those that identify as other genders but they're also used by staff they're used by those that are uncomfortable using the multi-stall bathroom and they're also used for convenience purposes depending on where they're in the building from being in the schools the schools our schools are not that big we already are arguing that point because we're talking about building a new school that's bigger so when we talk about time frame from getting from one end building to the

071other it's not that concerning all the time when you look at the high school there's multiple unisex bathrooms throughout the high school to be able to be utilized as with the same with the middle school obviously the elementary schools would get much smaller so i would speak and oppose of this policy change and again i hope for all equality for all but i think that safety reason and budgetary reason that would be a unwise change thank you thank you becca jordan thank you my name is becca georgery i have lived in town for about 13 years i have two kids in school one in eighth grade and one as a sophomore i wrote some things ahead of time i'm going to read some of it but i've been listening carefully and i'm learning some things

072that i also want to respond to in terms of the way the bathroom policy is set up you know we keep bathrooms close to our educational space for kids and that's because that's how it serves them best there's big bathrooms lots of stalls so that kids can go in and all at once you know everybody can can get in and out and i know you know from watching my kids go through elementary school they don't have a lot of time to go through the bathroom either they have to get in and get out and it's a little bit stressful to use the bathroom in elementary school and and i think it's important in that case that singling out these kids and we've we've established this is a small amount of kids this isn't a big

073gang of kids looking to stir up trouble in vermilion um they haven't demonstrated anything of the sort and and i really feel it's important for us to speak up for them again because their privacy is important my kids are cisgendered they're not transgender and i'm here to really speak up for their peers making a young child walk to the nurse's office to go to the bathroom which is sometimes really far away from their classroom is ridiculous really to to ask them to deviate from their class and really then reveal that they do have some secret or problem um in those little kids who really don't even understand what it means for them to be transgender um we're reinforcing that there's something wrong with them that that they should be more stressed or more anxious or

074have more negative emotions about themselves and i i think that's dangerous and and unsafe for them for the transgender kids in our in our community i really hope that this school board will help to create a safe comfortable environment not just for my cisgender kids but for all kids at whatever stage of gender identity that they may be in if a child is disruptive i've heard a lot of concerns about safety if a child is disrupted in the bathroom whether they're trans or cis i really hope that the teachers and staff would hold that individual child responsible and help them to learn better bathroom etiquette you know i'm sure that there are issues in the bathroom i heard about issues in the bathroom not with any transgender kid with my cisgendered kids interacting with other

075cisgender kids who are being disruptive in the bathroom it's an unsupervised place and and some of sometimes those things happen and certainly then we expect our teachers and staff to intervene but we know statistically we've heard from my my my peers here who are maybe more well-read on the topic that statistically these aren't the kids that are causing trouble in the bathroom they're they're nervous kids who are going into the bathroom where they identify um and they're careful they're cautious they're already nervous going into these bathrooms we don't need to add to that stress add to that anxiety that's that's already there i think not creating a policy which has been suggested is is also a concern of mine because then you're you're leaving it to the parent and child every year to have that

076anxiety of is this teacher this principle going to be supportive of my kids needs i i think there does need to be an inclusive policy that allows kids to use the bathroom of the gender that they identify with so that that stress doesn't have to be there each time they start a new school year i think a more inclusive policy will allow these children to benefit from the purposefully designed educational space that we have right now and and then they can spend their day focusing on learning and and certainly down the road if we're making bigger new schools it'd be great to have a bathroom system that works even better but there is an immediate need for these kids tomorrow to be able to go to school and and use the bathroom of their of

077their gender identity so thank you nina georgie hello my name is nina my mom just spoke and i currently go to the high school i have been in this school district for 13 years now i have gone through the both the elementary schools the middle school and now i'm in the high school i believe that transgender children should be able to use whichever bathroom they feel the most comfortable in i know that personally i would feel very uncomfortable if a trans male student was forced to go into the women's bathroom because that's the gender they were assigned at birth i know that person would feel much more comfortable going into the men's restroom because that's where they feel they belong i do not feel like children should be singled out for their gender identity no

078matter what it is and personally that's just what i believe and it's what the science supports and that's why i think that we should have gender inclusive bathrooms thank you rachel kirby hi i'm rachel kirby and thank you for taking this time to talk about this issue um i had stuff to say too and i don't even know one thing i just want to say is mike i have two kids that are in the district and both at the high school now and we have been lucky to have wonderful teachers wonderful principals and excellent support in our buildings my kids needs were always met if i had an issue my kids teachers and my kids principals always had our back and supported us my kids are also cisgender and are lucky to not have to

079fear about going in the bathroom whenever they need to use the bathroom the issue that has come up over and over again no matter where you stand on this issue is that issue of safety and as educators as people in the school board as community members we all want our kids to be safe whether they're the two 0.3 percent or they're the the normal and my kids are a very small percentage of this district but i'll will fight to make sure that they are safe just as i saw heard so many of you talking about your own kids and wanting them to be safe we want that for all every kid deserves to be safe so what i would just ask you as a board is to look at what the policy needs to be

080so that every kid even the least of these in numbers and percentages has what they need to not only be comfortable and to be safe but it's not about comfort i know someone said that earlier it's not about comfort it is about risk decreasing the risk of trauma it is extremely traumatic for kids it's extremely traumatic for me to stand up here not that traumatic but for kids to have to every time like oh gosh i gotta go into this bathroom or i have to go all the way i have to pee and i'm five years old and i have to run down to the nurse's station or and someone my peers says why do you have to always go down there so again like that issue that's been brought up over and over again

081about people needing to be able to having to come forward and say hey you're my principal i have a penis and i look like this every single time is traumatic it's very very traumatic and so i would suggest that you and i trust you because we elected you and i know that you are going to do a wonderful job with whatever you guys decide because you care about our kids you love our kids and you want them to have a safe place to go to school and so i thank you for that and i do trust that you guys will come to a good decision with that so thank you thank you [Applause] devito russell did i get that first name correct did it yes okay yes okay so i wasn't sure i was going

082to speak today so i appreciate everyone's patience while i go through my random notes i've been jotting down and yes so i am davida russell my pronouns are she her i am a cis gender female and i have a child in the vermilion school district and i use the bathroom that's a thing right i use the bathroom i walk into a women's room nobody says anything to me right i have this assuming privilege without you i words so when children i'm trying to think okay coming back up so the american medical association a few weeks ago recommended that we take off the gender markers on birth certificates when it comes to public information such as schools so that way the individuals who identify under the umbrella as trans this conversation wouldn't be happening right so

083if i have a child in the school district that identifies as trans i'd fill out the paperwork that's the information you know as far as gender and they would be able to go into the very private space that is a restroom and take care of their business and come out i do understand that many people are concerned about a potential safety issue with bathrooms and it seems like we are mixing two different issues from what i'm hearing from the concerns consent is a completely different issue and teaching our children consent and raping children or sexually assaulting children completely different issue that is a consent issue that you know this is south dakota so hopefully it's being taught at home because it's not mandatory curriculum different issue versus i have bodily autonomy i get to choose

084to use the restroom that i identify with and it is personal and private and no one needs to know it's nobody's business what's in between someone's legs that's a thing yes and then i do understand and did hear individuals talking about well the children who identify as trans have the option right in all three buildings to go into another restroom i hear that but we've already we as america have already decided to separate is not equal right brown versus board of education come on people individuals have the right to use the restroom where they feel it's most appropriate it's not someone's body their choice two seconds so yeah so in regards to um safety concern and oh left my phone with the beautiful statistic i'm smooth today anyway um safety concern trans women are more

085likely to be sexually assaulted than any other person right and i did hear multiple people concerned about women in general when if they are going to be sexually salted as a sexual assault survivor i've never been sexually assaulted in the bathroom that's a thing right and if we teach our children that the bathroom is a private space it shouldn't be an issue that's yes so when um deciding on policies for our children i encourage everyone to look in through the lens of the individual with the least amount of privilege don't look through your natural lens on how you naturally see the world try to look at the situation as if i am the person in this situation with the least amount of privilege and then make a decision based off of that because it shouldn't

086matter i also heard someone say whether or not they're their gender assigned adverse or whether or not they're assessed whether or not they've had bottom surgery or not we should not be deciding whether or not someone has bottom surgery as a deciding factor on which restroom they get to be in okay it's classist number one because who has we're assuming that they would have the money to do so and we're also assuming that they had gender dysphoria with their genitalia not our call anyway thank you all for your time thank you catherine johnson hello and fold my everyone my name is katherine johnson and my husband and i have a son and a daughter in the vermillion school district we feel strongly that all children should be able to use the restroom facilities that align

087with their gender identity when transgender students are excluded from facilities that correspond to their gender identity this sends a message to the students and their peers that there is something wrong with them and enforces the idea that they are not entitled to the same dignity as everyone else transgender students are already at a heightened risk of bullying and the stress of harassment can lead to lower attendance and grades as well as health problems we all care about privacy and safety allowing transgender students to use restrooms appropriate for their gender identity does not jeopardize anyone's privacy or safety if any student transgender or not feels uncomfortable using a restroom with another student or needs additional privacy for any reason private facilities should be made available however no student should ever be forced into using separate facilities

088allowing transgender students access to restrooms and other facilities consistent with their gender identity is in the best interest of the students and is a policy that should be implemented as soon as possible thank you for the work that you do every day [Applause] so that concludes those who have signed up i will open the floor to anyone else who wishes to address the board on this agenda item please state your name when you approach the podium i wasn't planning on talking i just came to this meeting because it's such an important issue to me i have four children in the school district they are 13 10 8 and 5 and i know that they would be mortified and traumatized if someone with a different genitalia entered their bathroom and was going to the bathroom also

089in the locker rooms my daughter is on the cross country team and i know that my other kids will be coming up and doing sports and i don't want them to have to seclude themselves because of being scared of being seen by someone who identifies as another gender i feel very strongly and i i do i love everyone and i feel for the people that the the minority um but as a majority they also would be traumatized um if anything happened in their bathroom or locker room especially and so i just want to say that i am opposed to the transgender bathroom what was your name again i'm sorry shanna for masano anyone else my name is jason schmitz and i don't have any kids in the school district but i heard about the topic

090and it's a an important topic and there's been a lot of compassion expressed and it seems like the current policy is pretty compassionate all factors considered i would recommend leaving it and not changing it and i guess not having children i sort of tried to personalize a lot of the comments and i i put myself in the scenario in public down on main street we're down on a saturday afternoon and my wife has to use the restroom and a man follows her into the restroom might ask any husband what would you what would be going through your mind would you be okay with that if our public function doesn't work that way why would we subject the most vulnerable our kids to those circumstances which we wouldn't accommodate ourselves to or the people we care

091about as adults the most so the policy seems very accommodating all factors considered i'd recommend it leaving as it is thanks for your time thank you anyone else um hi my name is amber margaim and i don't know that i have comments so much as i have questions i am here information gathering and trying to figure out how i feel about things my questions would be that if we did institute a change in policy how would that look and i know you guys can't necessarily answer that question right now because it's just a discussion but if we left the physical structures the way they are i know a lot of people would be uncomfortable would we do something like the europeans do where the bathroom stalls come to the floor or go all the way

092up are there things we can institute in that way to make it less likely people peek underneath i don't know that that would be a compromise or not but that was something that's worth asking another question is this just the bathrooms is this also related to locker rooms having children high school age locker rooms are a big issue for me bathrooms maybe maybe not i don't know depending on how we would structure things and so that would be my question as a person information gathering who's trying to figure things out what what ways would those things be handled what would those proposals be and those answers to these questions and how they're handled might make the difference one way or the other how i would feel thank you thank you anyone else okay then i

093will open the floor for board discussion before we do that just again some a clarification point that currently there is a practice that has been followed but there is no policy written regarding this particular matter that either prohibits or explicitly grants who may or may not use restrooms and so when we talk about leaving the policy as is we would actually be talking about having no policy and leaving a practice or potentially changing a practice or potentially changing a policy so at this point i'll open it up to board members for discussion once the board begins discussion unless the board directs a question to someone from the public this is at this point now a discussion among the board members okay thoughts do we have any additional information from excellent jim yes jim what have

094you learned in the intervening six days i uh i called the ocr for the department of education last tuesday ocr is the office of civil rights just for the public and anyone else and the reason i contacted them was because they are the federal agency that would investigate a complaint brought before them on an issue like this my idea in contacting them was to see if they could give any advisory assistance the answer to that was no the woman i talked to was very i think accommodating and wanting to help and so she said she would talk to a supervisor about it to get further direction but she said that's their current approach to it they're an investigative body only not giving advisory opinions or recommendations she said they had no model policies that they

095recommended at least at this time and that was about it she did email me some resource material some of which i had some of which i didn't have and uh and it contained the seven or eight leading cases on the subject that have come out of the courts in the various circuits on uh public education uh bathroom issues there's nothing in the eighth circuit so far but uh there are in the uh third fourth fifth sixth seventh ninth and eleventh i believe and they all seem to be unanimous in favor of the biden administration administration's executive orders and the responses that the department of justice and the department of education have given out in either their letters of guidance or memorandums to the schools and they've been posted on their ocr doe newsroom website and

096so that's what i found out from ocr thank you i forwarded those materials on to damon that she sent me open discussion it seems like there's i think it's first important to clarify that and in our discussion on tuesday for any of those of you who weren't there there was never any discussion of having gender neutral shared facilities that we would just open up all bathrooms to anybody who wants to use them in some sort of alley mcbeal style bathroom situation i think that you know our conversation was around in you know as we move to new facilities and as we renovate old facilities gender neutral single stall bathrooms are an excellent option that i think make almost everybody feel very comfortable with that option and is what most of us are used to using

097in pretty much every restaurant downtown and other places that we can feel comfortable in that environment i think there's two issues that as a board we need to carefully consider one is the the legal issue given the guidance that we have from the department of education and the ocr where they specifically list being denied access to a bathroom by a principal as one of the reasons that a student might file a civil rights complaint and given the recent judgments that have been both time-consuming and costly for those school districts i think it's important that we protect our district in a way that follows that guidance and those supreme court decisions and those judicial decisions about what it means to discriminate on the basis of sex the supreme court has established that to discriminate on the

098basis of sex includes discrimination on the basis of gender identity we aren't talking about allowing boys to use girls bathrooms or girls to using boys bathrooms we're talking about allowing all girls to use girls bathrooms whether they be cisgender or transgender and all boys to be able to use boys bathrooms whether they be cisgender or transgender and so i think that the idea that it's um you know someone can decide on any given day or that it's just going to be a free-for-all is is something that the board was not moving in the direction of or something that we would that we would consider i think we have to be careful to have a policy which both respects the rights of those students and establishes that they have equal access to both restrooms and locker

099rooms and activities but does it in a way that's respectful of the privacy and safety concerns of our entire district i am thankful that we are not the first board to have to figure this out we are not the first state to have to figure this out multiple states have already figured this out including some of our neighboring states iowa has policies at the state level that have supported affirming bathroom practices since the obama administration idaho has also had several school districts who changed their policies back in 2015 and most of the states when you when you talk to those people there haven't been these fearful hypothetical that people worry about in fact most students won't know when a transgender bathroom is in their school using the bathroom with them because they look like all

100the other little girls or all the other little boys and so it it's unfair for us to separate them so i think the two issues are one how do we create a policy that protects us legally and protects us from potential civil rights complaint and lawsuit and the other is how do we do the right thing for the kids in our district and i think that in this case those two options line up but they're both equally important i think there's been discussion about whether we should have a practice change or a policy change and i think in talking to parents of transgender kids and talking to people who are you know potentially thinking about moving into a different district i think it's important that we have a policy change i think it's in line

101with our goals of creating a more inclusive respectful district and i think that it provides those parents with the assurance that regardless of what building they're in regardless of what teacher their student has their kids are going to be safe and have the same access in every building that they're in and so i would support having an actual policy change versus just a practice change i think it's important that the policy we have establishes that what we're talking about is someone who has a consistent affirmed gender identity i think that you know in the various policies i've seen i've not seen any that have required documentation but certainly many schools have had gender transition plans and gender transition forms where the parents can sit down with the school and establish sort of this is where

102we are this is the restroom that we want to use this is um the pronouns and dealings with the name changes all of those changes kind of at once and so that might be a route that we go to sort of thinking about how this is enforced um but i think that both for legal reasons and for just what's right for our kids this is something that we need to move on sooner rather than later and i would advocate for a policy change not just a practice change currently we only have a practice correct correct it wouldn't be a policy change you'd have to write a whole new policy etc and based on comments brought up initially last week we just wanted to hear comments on bathrooms now some people are referencing locker rooms so

103is are we only discussing the potential of bathrooms or more as a board i think that's an excellent question the initial topic was you know restroom use during a school day um so i think that's that's open for discussion and i i was certainly last week you know of the mind that um i i prefer to not begin putting policies in place for what people can do because that becomes an almost infinitely long list i'm proud of the fact that we don't have a policy that prohibits that in fact as i read our policy i do wonder whether or not we already our practice should already be granting this we have two policies those happen to be j a excuse me jf which is student rights and responsibilities which grants students civil rights including right

104to equal educational opportunity and freedom from discrimination and policy jfab and ac which define that discrimination and it does already include language pertaining to gender identity and so while i also think that there is value in ensuring safety in the restrooms that that certainly is something that could be addressed from a policy standpoint including what happens if there's disruptive behavior i think we know the restrooms particularly as you move up these the school buildings are more prone to produce disruption um so there are avenues to do this without having to begin enumerating individual rights throughout um but i i do think that's worth something that's exploring now as as jim mentioned we're you know we're not in uncharted waters but we are um you know dealing with a difficult situation but i also think that

105it's important to note and i should have thanked you all the civility of the discussion again tonight uh makes me proud to be a member of this community i you know i've watched videos of school board meetings that have uh become chaos and resulted in german because they could not carry on a discourse the way you just did uh and so that's that's kudos to every single one of you and i i thank you for taking your time and for maintaining that civility um and i apologize for not mentioning that first so that that's really where i'm standing at this point i'm i you know i think uh anna's point about seeking information and gathering what makes sense including what would it look like how would we ensure that this is not because it was

106as you pointed out it was never our intention that someone can just say okay today i want to use this restroom that was that's not at all what we're seeking we're actually seeking to provide the safest possible restroom usage for the students in our district at least i am i think all of you are so i had a question last week i think damon was also going to talk to some administrators or teachers or just any feedback if you had that opportunity yes we did sit down as an admin administration team and discuss this and across the board our our administrative team is supportive of of all students and wanting to make sure his kids feel safe and valued regardless of of of their transgender status or their gender identity needs or any other needs

107honestly that students bring to our district the biggest obstacle or thing that we we kept returning back to was our discussion that um in our if if this policy were to move forward one of the obstacles will be that the potential for bullying and harassment which we've noted many many times in this discussion already would be something that they would have to deal with probably on a more steady basis than they do now the bathrooms are unfortunately a place where kids have some unrestricted freedoms and they explore those things whether it's peeking at each other poking at each other you know other things that boys and girls will do and could this turn into a situation where a student is inadvertently outed um in a in a restroom setting and then kids will ask them

108questions will those questions then be perceived as harassment because a principal will be able to investigate that and ask that question of the student who was asking the questions potentially innocently but now that the parent may be have regard to the principles not do anything about it my kids being harassed in a bathroom because they're being asked by other kids about their gender identity and so i think that that's a concern moving forward that the administration has on that but they have concerns and they deal with these things on a day-to-day basis whether it's a gender issue or a boy being mean to another boy in the bathroom or a girl throwing water on a girl in the bathroom whatever the case is they're equipped and and ready to handle the situation but they have

109studied this and they want to do what's best for all kids in the district and if they're here if you have anything that you'd like to add to that administrative team they certainly may damon do you know or if they want to answer from from an administrator's perspective is does it make a difference to them to have a difference in practice versus a difference in policy in terms of them being asked to you know enforce a decision or to to make a decision within their building and have that conversation with parents was there any preference from them that was indicated you're welcome to jump into this any one of you administrators my perception of our discussion was the fact is it's always been handled exactly the same way every single case in every single district

110even though it was a practice and not a policy it was handled as if it was written in black and white so there's never been an accusation that we've been unfair or different in building the building it's always been handled the same so i think that they believe that the practice has served the needs of the district without having to have a formal policy but if there's anything to add they certainly may and i think there's merit to the idea that we don't want that much variation from building the building and and i also think that you know if we're asking administrators to make this decision we should be willing to stand behind it with a single district-wide decision and we're not we haven't been asking our administrators to do this because we're trying to

111defer from our responsibility we have always put it there because we are deferring to their authority in the building but i do think a district-wide practice is ultimately the ideal here so am i hearing correctly that the current practice is not in line with our current policy regarding students rights and responsibilities with regard to non-discrimination well that's my interpretation of that policy and i am not an attorney is that a reasonable comment or observation then that if our practice has been to have students use a different bathroom that that is not in line with our policy of non-discrimination our policy is as doug stated it states that we will not discriminate on the basis of gender identity all the court decisions that are the majority of them that are coming out are saying that you're

112supposed to allow uh choice uh there may be some uh way to come to uh there may be a a vetting or some kind of uh like the high school activities association has uh they have a a process that transgender activity participants go through and then they're approved for participation after having gone through this process i'm not familiar with what it is and i'm not sure that that is something that we can do locally or legally because i haven't studied that part of it i know that's what the activities association does but as far as the um i think the handwriting's pretty clearly on the wall what probably an ocr investigation would result in i think we'd have to adopt a policy that would allow transgender uh children to use the bathrooms of their um

113choice or of their gender identity and um i think if we ever got sued over it based on the balance of cases that i'm seeing most of them would be against our policy as it currently sits i think um and i know that large attorney fees awards get uh get awarded in the cases that prevail and so if we were to get sued i think we'd lose and i think we'd get socked for a bunch of money and that's just the legal reality thanks jim last meeting you all said biden administration was supposed to come out with some overriding rule on things has that transpired or any update there no that hasn't transpired that was promised in the middle of the summer that they would have this ready in the month of august but it's

114tomorrow i guess they could have something on our desk tomorrow but they don't have that you know and since the obama administration they've had these same rulings then the trump administration came in and reversed them all and then that set the stage for where we're at today the uh fight administration came in to now adjust the rules to what what their office of civil rights will enforce and so it's just been this back and forth back and forth and in three years it might be back again so but right now we have no new guidance based on the abiding administration does your associated school board south dakota provide any guidance or any have we asked them on anything yeah we had a meeting with them this morning they basically echoed the same thing that that

115jim says every school in the state runs this almost the identical practice that we're doing which is they ask students to use the bathroom that that they um our birth certificate or gender identity is just one of the factors in most schools it hasn't become an issue so that it just hasn't been litigated in south dakota the eighth circuit uh hasn't been challenged and that's why we don't have a ruling that we are required to follow we're not required to follow the seventh circuit first second third ninth or eleventh because uh those aren't our circuits but at this point the office or the associate school board's attorneys have the same kind of conception that jim does saying that it's probably going to be coming down because the office of civil rights would not likely be

116trying to push this guidance down on schools if it wasn't coming down from the from the white house so it's most likely inevitable i mean one of the things that has changed in that time period like yeah like legislation via executive order and guidance right you sets you up for this flip-flop but in that same time period we have had supreme court decisions that have decided not on education cases but in separate workplace cases that discrimination on the basis of sex includes gender identity and so the supreme court decision that says on the basis of sex includes this then that interpretation of on the basis of sex in title ix it's reasonable to assume that they would uphold that in other cases and they haven't overturned cases when they've had the opportunity so i mean

117trying to you know oscillate between different executives guidance can be tricky right and sort of not wanting to go back and forth but i think that we also now have supreme court guidance which allows us to make this decision even more confidently and not have that fear that in three years it will it will be reversed again if if i recall correctly we could not get the stream tonight or people could hear it but can't see it no i'm sorry that that uh uh it was remoted in so as far as i know this was audio and live stream capable yep thank you for that clarification and i just know people who talk to me looked at more return to school that's what they didn't see the agenda they may not have known the topic

118so in my opinion maybe appropriate on the next meeting which is 9 13 which is more of our regular routine that others seem to look at maybe we have the same comment section or dialogue and keep this topic in the forefront move it forward maybe some board members either on the procedure committee or policy review a few things we have in place today so we have more knowledge this is just my opinion but i'll do you know what the majority want but that way we get some more public input i would believe the administrators would probably speak for the teachers but also maybe get input from the teachers so we have all the best data we want would the policy committee be willing to come to the next meeting with a recommendation regarding practice change

119versus policy change and in recommended language for a policy change if we were going to go that route when you want more public input first if there's other things or we're just as a board you're from additional people either whatever way and then and then start either interpreting what we have in place today or work on a procedure or board decides that we want a policy or do we want a procedure i guess i'm of the mind given what jim mccollough has shared with us that a policy is what is needed to protect protect the district legally and i'm also hearing that our practice the practice that has been in place hasn't been following our district policy which makes it all the more important that we do a policy i mean those two different reasons

120for me are compelling reasons that we move forward with a policy so i don't know what that means if that's for the policy committee to bring something forward or if there is language to be reviewed by the larger group i'll put that out there is it is there i think you had one question is policy versus procedure and then one is looking at the policy we have is it consistent with what we want as a district existing existing policies we have the existing policy for for whatever i'm confused there's a jf and a jfb just jfab so the student rights and responsibilities and the non-discrimination policy that's one that we just uh approved very recently right the additions to to reflect the most recent supreme court case on this am i remembering that correctly so

121there wouldn't be a need to change that policy i don't believe i don't know i think jim's referring to do we need to a review our practices and can our practices be adjusted to align with our current policies or do we need an additional correct do we need a separate policy on this do we just need to update our practice to be aligned with those policies which either way could go to the policy committee for a recommendation come the 13th of september but is it fair to do it based on timing that soon also i don't know if that's realistic on other people's commitments well if they made a policy recommendation at that point in terms of the concern about having enough time for public input we'd still have to have another public reading of

122it at that point like that would still that would be considered the first reading of that policy if a recommendation was made on the 13th and so we would still have to have a second reading before it would officially change the policy so i think it allows time for public input i don't know if it allows the time for rachel and carol to do due diligence and putting that together i think it's hard for people to put out a policy on that meeting and to be able to review and make comment before the next one so we would have to have the policy out the complete policy draft out in the board packet yeah and i i think that's fair you know when you're debating this debating the vagaries of what does a policy look

123like um to have you know ultimately and i've been on record saying i i think the practice and following what we have is adequate but i haven't seen anything and so i would like to weigh that against something so i'm i i would be okay to you know pass that charge to the committee and say come up with some draft language and i do think that that gives you know the public an opportunity to know what they're commenting on more specifically particularly if we can make sure we can get that out that becomes the question we have uh you know not that much time before our next meeting regular meeting is the 13th so we have a little more than a week but that means that committee has to get together has to put together

124a lot of stuff that's challenging and get it out and get it out i don't know if that's realistic i can't speak on that but i think it'd be real it's more realistic would be put it out to have comments next meeting or then following when it is appropriate that the policy committee has a draft board review have a public even if it's a special meeting sometime later in september which gives him should give ample time with workload to then just discuss public comment look at wording see what people think it looks like and then are we are we changing the practice in the meantime to be in line with the current interpretation of the policies that we have in place because it seems like there's either it's it's difficult to read it both ways

125to say that the current policy allows for this practice so we don't need a new policy and then to say well we're not actually changing any practice until we have a policy that suggests we need a policy and so it seems like we have to make a decision about what the practice is in the meantime as well and i think that's part of the challenge because most districts in the state have similar practices that we do but also have similar statements of non-discrimination that haven't allowed for them to have the same access and so which i think does argue for having some formal policy language which really establishes that because our practice over the last you know 15 20 years for these families have been that they have you know similar policies to what we

126have in place but they don't actually have access but our practice which has been the last couple years or for however long it's been consistent so i think our practice that's in place today remains in place today until something's written or transpired maybe the board comes up with something we say no and the practice remains the practice i think we'll hear you know different groups more comments as this goes through and maybe it'll make a step back and say yes it should change or the practice of the majority and what we have today is the way this community wants it and we stay where we are and whatever transpires in the courts transpires in the courts and that's acceptable too if the board agrees and the public input knows the direction so i mean i've

127i mean private sector different than public could have and there's times yep you can get sued or not get sued you may get sued and you say what is the consensus what is the position the board wants which is the voice of the people when we go forward that's only me i'm one of four up here but we have a lot of constituents in the office and we have to represent probably a lot and out here also let me go forward with that i just think it's important we move expeditiously both because we we have left ourselves open up to um to a legal claim or at the minimum a complaint through the office of civil rights i think this is not a hypothetical and that we're establishing policy in case we know we have

128current families who are wanting resolution to this issue so both for the legal reasons and because families need resolution to this issue for their kids i think that we just need to i'm not saying we have to make a decision tonight but i'm just saying we need to move with some um we need to move quickly on this we can't just leave this resolved for you know meeting after meeting after meeting but i i think once it was to my knowledge it was brought attention we met on it so we are moving you know my opinion only and we take it very seriously for all parties involved other thoughts or comments i i do think that um you know we want to act in a way that is responsive to kind of our mission as

129a board which is to review and consider policy to ensure the best quality education that we can but we also have a fiduciary responsibility and that does consider you know what what is our liability um and so i think for all of those reasons we do need to if if nothing else say by you know the end of september we will either be leaving things in place and then be responsible for what happens by making no change or we will have a policy or a change in practice and that's just i think if we set a deadline to send the public knows how long we're going to be considering this issue and we [Music] have made a public commitment that's not binding but i think that's important i think that's something we do owe the

130public what the time frame is so we do it right that's what i'm i'm most interested in let's get this right and if that takes an extra week i understand that that week will be an extra week that i wouldn't want anyone to have to endure but again in the long run that's what i think is best for the district so the question really is can we get this right in three weeks or two weeks i certainly think we can get it right in five i don't think we need to go beyond that but that's my opinion only so what is the policy committee going to look at where the policies can committee will go and come back and what what is the first what is the scope they're looking at board can flush up

131with the community correct policy committee because you got to come up with the scope there's draft language we can review and submit for comment and have that for our regular board meeting with us september 13th and if we need to do a special meeting before our next one would be i think it's october 12th is it because of no school on the 11th so that's kind of the ultimate if we were to do on the two full regular board meetings or we'd have to have a special meeting at the end of september to get the second policy passed if the first and second drift right are we or is the scope looking at restrooms only or broader to be determined to be determined but more than likely it would include broader most of the most

132of the the recommended policy language is broader because it is about denying access to sex segregated facilities and activities and so some specifically just look at restrooms and locker rooms others are a little bit more expansive in thinking about sex segregated activities like homecoming court for example or other types of things where there may be specific sex segregations within um that have been designated but i've not seen any that specifically deal with restrooms and leave locker rooms out of it so as we leave tonight and now i get more confused what is are we looking at all of that so that's a broader scope so i think there needs to be more time to write it and get it right and there needs to be more time for public input especially if there's any you

133know infrastructure changes obviously a lot of comment with the bond passing if the new the new school building which i'm on that committee has and we've got shane to be on it will be unisex or stalls or whatever so that's from a restroom standpoint new elementary book that'll be addressed there but current infrastructure will not so are we okay with moving towards the date to september 13th so we will have a draft from the policy committee potentially i will not be at that meeting right out of town maybe i'll be able to zoom in or not and again you also can i understand all the issues on the table we just want to take our time do it right and get the public input more because they may have better ideas or different ideas yeah

134and honestly for my life as covid ramps up in our community my role in healthcare it will be a little bit challenging so but we'll rely on some others to help gather what is necessary and it will be realistic if we can gather something that's presentable or not so and again i think we're fortunate that we're not having to recreate the wheel that we're not the first to do this so i think there is a lot of model language and the you know state of iowa department of education has some model language there's some others from other states that i think can help us consider what's reasonable okay any other discussion can you run anything we do or use jim as our resources absolutely he's smiling okay that concludes the board discussion um i don't

135believe there's any action necessary just for our uh to assist us here in the audience and you have to understand the acoustics are not the best in this room which seems kind of ironic since designed as a meeting chamber but when the mic sounds spoken in too closely it's difficult to hear yes um there were some comments that were made that i think an individual or two were maybe back from the mic a bit so it was hard to pick everything up but could you kind of summarize now exactly where we're at i mean what's going to happen next i will do my very best yes i'm afraid to pull it out so yeah the to summarize uh what the board will be doing now is that they have charged the policy committee with drafting

136language for consideration so that the board in its discussion can determine what draft policy changes might look like in comparison to draft practice changes or also aka procedural changes and so that i don't want anyone to think that um you know this this constitutes the first reading of the policy that our goal and our discussion centered on ensuring that any policy change we would make sure we would get that out to the public so that they would have an ability to view that in advance of the meeting and as with all policy changes there would be two readings so that what we are hoping is that the policy committee will be able to come back and at our september 13th meeting we would have that draft language to begin consideration and discussion and i think

137the goal is to actually have that language by probably the thursday prior to that so that it can be put out to the public through the website did i get that yeah okay or put out if they don't have enough time and let people know and then just get special meeting later in september right so that if by some reason something happens some consultation or if there is guidance from the doe that ultimately changes that or maybe shapes it that we would say okay we now have this guidance and that's going to cause us to suspend or to modify that we will have an update i would say to the public by thursday what would that be september the 9th homecoming week thank you and we will be diligent more diligent about leaning into the

138microphones and there is no action to be taken by the board so there'll be no there will be only one more vote tonight and that would be on a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second it's been moved and seconded to adjourn by carol and rachel all in favor signify by saying aye aye i oppose nay we are adjourned [Music]