WCS Board Work Session 2025-06-12

001the the u the meeting. This is the June 12th, 2025 work session for the Williamson County Board of Education. We have a quorum barely. Not that we really need one for this, but um it's pretty light tonight. Um, all right. We will get started with the consent agenda that there's been a request to remove both of the policies for second reading from consent. So 4.601 and 6.411 will be pulled off consent. I'm going to move those down to for tonight's discussion down to uh new business uh and added at the end. So there'll be an item F where we will discuss those. uh at that point in time. Any other questions or comments about other items on the consent agenda? All right, we will move to superintendent report where we've got some hot off the

002presses information from the county commission budget committee. Thank Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I will speak to that first. uh county commission budget committee actually called for a special called meeting that started today at 4:30 p.m. and it's now about 5 after 6. That's unusual for them, but it was it was uh called to address the budget. And I'm going to give you a little bit of a nutshell. And actually Rachel Farmer, our CFO, and and Brian King, our assistant superintendent for operations, actually stayed at the meeting when I had to leave to get over here on time. Uh the core of what they were discussing is the proposal that the budget committee uh published includes a five- cent gap in county government's budget and a five- cent gap in schools budget. And you all

003knew about the schools piece uh and so they had a detailed discussion and were in the process of voting on some items uh related related to that budget. The gist of what I saw as they were going through that was they were looking for ways to shrink the number of pennies that that where they had a gap on their proposed expenses and the revenue. Um, so I'm going to I'm going to hit a couple of those items and Rachel may come in during some of this discussion. Uh so they they addressed one expense item on our budget uh and that was our health insurance cost. Right now there's a $70 million just a little bit over $70 million uh item in our budget where we pay to the county government uh for for in essence

004self- insurance uh claims. That's that's the amount that they've projected for us. the the mayor actually recommended that they reduce the FTE, the full-time equivalent request for each each one of those in those health insurance u uh folks by $500. The net result in that is they were in the process of reducing the budget approval by $2.65 million for that addressing that one item. What that means for them is that would reduce the tax rate by a penny. So that's one penny off R5. They also had some discussion and had and had not yet hit the point where they were voting on the revenue side of of their debt service and the discussion they had was there is about actually not all this detail was shared there but some of this is what I just

005know. There's about $90 million sitting in the impact fee fund for growth. They had some detailed discussions with with their bond counsel and and their general counsel related to that and they determined that they can actually spend some of that some of that impact fee money on acred capital that they have previously spent on growth. In other words, principal on their debt. So, they did the math on that and they project that they can actually spend about two pennies on the tax rate by using some of that 90 million uh on uh on on on the bond debt service. And they went through multiple issues related to that that included the rural debt. It also included the general debt. Some of the general debt is county government debt. Some is schools debt. But the net

006is I think if I'm not mistaken, Rachel, they increased the they they actually in well reduce the need for revenue by about $5.8 million with that if in fact they actually voted on it. And Rachel, as I left, they had not yet voted on that. Okay. I just been told they did approve that. And again, this is the budget committee. They they also worked on the question of could they reduce a couple of pennies by changing the projected revenue for property taxes. And you all may recall we've mentioned that per the county standards, we actually project property tax revenue at 92% of actual. And the net result for that typically is that extra 8% or 7 and a half or whatever ends up being received by by county government and us ends up going into

007fund balance and then it and it rolls to the next year. Uh the mayor actually mentioned changing that projection to 94% of of of property tax receipts. Uh, in other words, going from a projected 92% revenue to 94% revenue, which in essence would again reduce the gap. And Rachel, if I'm not mistaken, that's that's the equivalent of two pennies. Two pennies. So that's five cents right there. But if I'm not mistaken, four of those pennies are us and one of those pennies is county or something to that effect. If you would turn your microphone on. So, the final tax rate that was voted on tonight was a $130 27 cents for county general fund, 3 cents for solid waste, 75 cents for schools, 15 cents for general debt, and then 9 cents for rural debt.

008So, rural debt was reduced by two cents, general county general was reduced by a penny, and we were reduced by two pennies for a total of five. Total of five cents. So, so the net impact on us if this ultimately passes the county commission on June 20th, which is their actual vote, is Rachel, if I'm not mistaken, the revenue side won't impact our budgeting at all. those three cents where they've changed the revenue projection. But there is there is u there is the impact of the reduced ask for for health insurance which means that if that passes on June 20th we will need to amend our budget because we will have a less expense in that in in that than we actually projected. The peculiarity for us is that insurance is built into multiple spots

009in our budget because we have general education, we have special education, we have maintenance. Every department that has people has some of that money in it. Uh so we we we this again this just happened. We're trying to make a decision on whether to recommend to you to add something to Monday's meeting to do that or wait till we know for sure this is actually going to happen on June 20th. And Mr. Chair, uh I know you want to speak to that. So I guess I have two questions. One is what was the vote on the committee? The vote to four to one and then the other question is is there the ability for us to start the fiscal year with expenses higher than our revenue, which is effectively what we what would happen if

010we didn't proactively vote to reduce our expenses on insurance. I very briefly spoke with the CFO for the county as well. They would really we need to have the budget a balanced budget approved by June 30th by July 1 if possible. So you could, but there would be ramifications that come back to the state. I mean from the state in that the county did not file a balanced budget by June 30th. And when I say ramifications, it's there's not necessarily a a penalty or fine. It does happen, but there is some recognition and that goes along to help the AAA bond rating as well if it's filed by June 30th. Okay. And so the choice we have, guess this is A question is the choice we have to either vote to amend our budget ahead

011of their final vote and then hope that it aligns or to wait till they vote and then we have a special call meeting to do one thing which is to amend our budget. That's correct. So if we if we reduce insurance so what what are what's two $4 million? 2.65 million. How much? 2.65 65. That's in the g that's in the general fund. There's there's some amount that would be in the cafeteria fund and then the extended school fund as well. Okay. But I thought I thought a penny was closer to it's 2.694 is the actual Oh, thank you. is the actual total. Um but if we were if we reduced our budget and and they didn't um and they don't they approve a I guess if they didn't if they approved our budget but

012didn't decrease our insurance costs then we'd have to find we'd have to go find that cost somewhere else because they're not approving our they're not approving the line items our budget the just the just the number. That's correct. They're they're they're approving the bottom line number. Uh so the the essence of this is the proposal from the county budget committee to the full commission is to approve what you all voted on minus $2.65 million. So their approved number is going to be that much less than what you all voted on a couple of months ago to submit to them. I guess what's the what's the ramification if if they don't if they approve a I guess if they approve a lower number then they're going to have to then they'll they'll just have to fund

013it or then they'll have to and if they don't if they I I just don't want I just don't want to come back I'm trying to envision what what it would look like if we if we lower our number and like what what's the downside? Well, if if if we lower our number and and they approve another number, we will have lowered our number to no good purpose. Uh so that would be the argument for waiting. Um now I will say in this particular item, Rachel, I know you want to speak. You can tell there the insurance, they are definitely lowering the insurance regardless of what tax rate they vote on. The insurance is something that they've looked at. they've projected out and feel like that they can lower the cost this year with the

014understanding that they are negotiating essentially contracts with Sigma for the next year and that the quotes that came in the original on those um bids that came through was already lower. So that's why they feel confident that that that's not going to change. But they could they could put whatever number that they wanted to and if actuals came in more they could just take it out of fund balance. They could the So, just so you know, what was originally the approved budget for us was 565,306797. That's what the board has approved. What they've approved tonight, the budget committee for the resolution that will go before the commission is 562,612797. So, they're already presenting the lower number. The commission is um and then we would be the ones that would have to come back and amend

015to that number regardless. So, by going ahead and doing it, I don't know that there's really any um danger in doing that because the reduction in insurance cost for us is going to happen one way or the other. So, if our if our expense number matches the one they've approved tonight, then it doesn't really matter what the what the components of it are. That's correct. I mean, my my concern is just that is that they honor the that that insurance reduction is is real because if the only reductions we're making are costs that are coming from the county, then then there is no risk. But if they if if for some reason the the the commission didn't vote to reduce, but we voted to reduce our number, then now we've got to we've got to

016we've got to cut another $2 and half million dollars out of our budget. That's right. Did you have something? What did they What did What was that number that they're going to approve? The total was 562 million 612797. I just I have one more question. Uh you mentioned impact fees, Jason. Yeah. Uh $90 million in that uh pot of money. That's correct. Uh was that not for schools? that is for schools and that can only be spent for schools and growth items related to schools. So they can't just spend it for maintenance. They can only spend it for schools growth items. So what percentage were we getting during growth periods from that? I mean that's a that's a big pot of money. Yeah, it's and it's been it's been in place I'm trying to remember

017since 2017. Yeah. So, you know, for every home and uh so they have been spending some of that when we've made requests for for projects over the last seven or eight years. They've had to decide how to fund that and they've been paying some of that. Some of some of their when we think about them going to bond market. Some of their decisions have included let's spend some of that some of that um impact fee money to cover some of those costs. But again, they can only do it for items that they that they commit to growth. Um, so what they did um when they went through that brainstorming session of asking that question, if we've committed debt to growth items since 2017 for the schools, can we cover some of the principal payments that

018we're having to make annually on those bonds with that impact fee? And the short answer they got was yes. So, uh, their their total tax rate includes some money for debt service. And so what they determined was they could looking back at when they did the bonds for some of growth and I'll give you some specific examples. Arrington Elementary School. Uh um uh and let's see, I think maybe the first one may have been the Scales Elementary expansion. From those from that window of time from where where we expanded Scales to Arrington, anything that we built related to growth, they've determined that they can cover the principal the principal annual payments with that that fund. So it's it saves it saves a little bit on the tax rate, right? What's a penny? A million dollars

019or two? 2.7 2.7. So, Mr. Cash, the the current year's value of a penny is 1.8 and next year's value is 2.7. And that's a big issue that they've been talking about as well. The total tax rate is a $1.88 currently on every thousand dollar value. um the reappraisal that they went through has dropped the tax rate to a$124.33 something. So the original proposal from the budget committee let's say 3 four weeks ago was to raise the tax rate to from a$124 to $130 34. And so now they're talking about after all this detail with this special called meeting reduce that proposed $134 to a dollar 29. It is convoluted. Yeah. Yeah. So the the insurance cost is is perpetual I guess if our if our costs are going to go down. Um but the

020So did they did they vote to to change the 92% to 94%. They did. Um and so all that does I mean that buys us a year but then next next year we're going to have to we're have to make it make it up on the tax rate. Well that's right because we're going to have lower fund balance to You're exactly right. And actually, um, Commissioner Herbert spoke to that and and Rachel, I wasn't at the vote. Was she the one? She was the one that So, the vote so she said she was concerned about that because it was that one time shot. And so the so the vote to approve this was four to one on budget committee and she was the one based on my hearing from her, she doesn't want to do

021that, which means that there still could be a discussion and and maybe some some conflicting votes at the commission level on that question come June 20th and she's the chair of the budget committee this year and I don't want to speak for her but my projection of that discussion was that they would be better off having that one more penny on the tax rate so that they don't lose that they don't lose that 92% fund balance protection So from a public notice perspective, would we have time to change our agenda for Monday night to to make that budget change knowing that it's not on the agenda? Now Dana, I'm speaking for you a little bit, but my understanding of that rule is because we have a regularly scheduled meeting, we can change and add to

022the agenda. We've got 48 hours to give notice. So if we publish an agenda tomorrow, it needs to be an item. So it's a really quick turnaround given that it's a committee vote and not the full commission vote. But our alternative is is a special call meeting before the before July 1. Yeah. In in that window between June 20th and July 1. It kind of feels like we're on a little bit of rock and hard place here being asked to make a decision without knowing what are the rules of the game. Um, you know, special cult meeting middle of summer doesn't sound enjoyable, but it's not the end of the world. Um, I don't know if shooting from the hip it not, you know, just hearing about this. Um I I think it's almost preferable

023to know uh and make decisions off of knowledge base rather than a sort of projection of what happened 20 minutes ago in in yeah committee meeting as a practical matter just looking at calendar. So the 20th that they would meet on the budget committee is a Friday. So and then the 30th is a Monday. So then you're really talking about sometime between the 23rd and the 27th being the realistically the only five days that that meeting could happen. Well, we we could we could do it on the 20th after after lunch if I mean we're we're trying to be done by they they typically are done by by lunch is the goal and then we have a we have a lunch afterwards which presumably we're all invited but I don't know if we're if we

024can get a quorum there but if we could get a quorum um I mean that's a that's a potential I mean we'll all be there or we're at least invited. This is putting everyone on the spot, but can everyone pull out calendars and just see quickly availab general availability? Not asking for specifics. General availability on the 20th or the 23rd through the 27th. I will be out of town, but I can call in. Correct. I mean, if if you're on camera, you can Well, and depending upon the reason you're out of town. So, just shoot me a text as to why. If you're on a family vacation, you can't vote. Mr. Chairman. Yes, ma'am. The city of Franklin will have the auditorium. They're already booked. The city of Franklin already has the auditorium booked on

025the 24th and the 26th for their monthly meetings. Just FYI. In in the evenings, right? Yes, sir. We can do it. Say that again. Sorry. 23. I'm not let let's do this just sometime tonight before you go to bed. Just send me an email. me and Jason, please send an email about availability those what would effectively be six weekdays the 20th and then the 23rd through the 27th and then we can just make a decision if we need to have that meeting. Um other does anyone else have a feeling or a preference about doing it before their final vote versus after their final vote? I mean, I for one don't have any problem doing it before if if we if you feel very confident that that's that revenue or that expense number is going to

026stick. It's at least going to be that, but there could be other changes that happen on the floor on the 20th. I mean, that is an absolute possibility. So, you could have a vote to I mean, if you voted on Monday, we could still have the possibility of needing to have a special called. This is definitely not a a predictable budget year for the county commission as opposed to all the other years that are so any other thoughts or feedback? I mean, that really wasn't part of our planned agenda and discussion, but it's important. So, any other instant reactions to this? Okay, we'll see availability and let that sort of drive the at least in part drive the decision because if we can't get a quorum, then it may not be an option. All right.

027Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, we had on my on the agenda the superintendent report for 45 minutes. I actually didn't have that time scheduled. I sent you all an email a few days ago related to some detailed questions that were asked uh on the on the work that we had done related to the strategic plan and the school start times. Many of you asked some questions related to research. Mr. King and his team gave you some detail related to that including some analysis kind of with a red and green negative positive elements and his team is here tonight as I mentioned. uh we invited you to ask some questions based on that. I I will tell you based on the discussions that we've had with some of you, some of you asked for some additional

028research and and and others said, "Boy, I think I I want to take some time to think about this. I'm not sure where we are on with moving forward." I want to give you a couple of options. Number one, I'm going to open the floor if you have any specific questions related to that research. Uh and also related to that, I intend to post that on the agenda even though we don't intend to present those 38 pages in in a PowerPoint. That way folks in the community will be able to see some of that detail. Uh second piece is we're going to continue to have some discussions related to some of our strategic planning and the chair had mentioned to you the possibility of having a discussion about where you are as a as a

029board related to the strategic plan late this summer. Uh so that's another possibility for us to have some more detailed discussion related to that. I know there was some discussion about where do we go from here? Do we do we have a vote on that? Uh etc. Uh, and so the impression I had um from from the board members was that you weren't ready to commit to that, but I don't want to speak for you. I just wanted to intro introduce that topic to you. So, Mr. Chair, that was really my followup with the board related to the uh information we gave them in response to the questions we had last month. With it being June, other than budget, I don't have any detailed reports for you. to follow up on the point about the

030the uh the planning session at the last work session we threw out July 30th as and I I didn't get a lot of feedback about the availability on that date for a half day work session. So um I'm guessing that's not going to work for most people. So what would be the op um the thinking around the afternoon of the work of the August work session which is I think the 14th of August. So, if we were to convene at 1:00 and have a planning session that afternoon leading into the work session, u would give us a chance to talk about these items that Jason just mentioned, plus you know, a couple of other things that, you know, are on the front burner um that might warrant a little additional discussion. Um, it might also

031give us a chance to, this is sort of related to the goals, the annual goals discussion, which we'll get to later. um in terms of his evaluation now, but we need to think about um in an ideal world getting his goal set earlier than we did this past time. I think we I think it was Remind me Jason when your final goals were approved for the current year. November. So we approved those in November. He effectively had six, seven months to um act on those before being evaluated. In an ideal world, we'd get those done in in his hands in August or September. Um, so it might be that we could use part of that August planning session to to talk about goals that we want to set for him for the coming year and

032maybe even talk about go board goals if we have our own board goals we want to put down um for things we want to work on in the coming year as well. So, um, while you're checking your calendars for the other, please look at August 14th in the afternoon and see if that might work. Anything else for Jason for his report? All right. Anything else? No, sir. All right. Operations report, Mr. King. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh before we start on the construction projects update, again, I want to thank uh Heather, Laura, and Amy for the work that they've done on the the start times and all the research and time that they put in. They have been just fantastic, and I want to thank them. Uh again, I thanked them last time, but it's

033worth mentioning again. Um construction update. Brentwood Middle School uh flooring is 95% complete. Uh the ceiling grid is complete and the final painting has begun and we should be doing our life safety testing uh toward the end of the month. The transportation building is uh complete and just all all that they're doing over there now is a punch list items and the innovation center uh the block installation uh is continuing. The second floor slab will be poured tomorrow and again this is scheduled to be completed by April 26 of 2026. and our maintenance crew every year they do a uh three-year asbestous reinspection. They completed that in May. Our safety, our FO project uh continues uh and it's on track should be completed by the end of June and then we'll start in July with

034phase two of that. And there's several projects that our maintenance team starts every summer and we'll give an update in August uh on a lot of those as as they get completed. Uh but that's my report and unless you have any questions. Well, I actually, if I may, Mr. Chair, I want to mention a couple items related to Brian's report. The innovation hub is being built on Franklin's campus, Franklin High's campus. Encourage you to drive by. A lot of block is up. We're very excited about that. Just as a reminder, that is being fully funded by a state grant. Um, and I know a couple of you actually mentioned that in your in your evaluation. We are very excited about that. Uh, one interesting anecdote that made me smile is Dr. Snowden and I spoke

035at Dave Crouch's u I'm having a mental block now. Uh, policy talks. Thank you. Policy talks uh a few Fridays ago. And I know Miss Hibba, you were there and some of you watched that. And one of the things I mentioned was that innovation hub and specifically the uh fire the fire program, the the firefighting program that we're adding to that. The the chamber used that as a plug for their every other year trip to to various areas where there's fast growing projects going on because we actually got that idea when we visited Scottsdale, Arizona a couple years ago. We visited a school district in Metro Phoenix that does nothing but college and career technical education programs. In Metro Phoenix, they actually pull those programs into separate school districts that actually serve maybe five or

036six school districts in the region and do nothing but college and career technical education. So, it it just made me smile that they use that as a plug uh for their trip. their next trip is to Minneapolis if I'm not mistaken in a is it maybe maybe in about six months or so something to that effect. So that was one item I wanted to mention related to the innovation hub. We're on we're on target to open those programs in fall of and uh Jeremy Qualds and his team are doing a really good job preparing for that. Certainly we've talked about that in in detail in the past but if you all need some reminders on that um we can we can give those to you. Second piece I wanted to mention is the alternative learning

037center. Uh county government is going through what they call the triple J project uh juvenile justice and judiciary and they actually have already gotten funding approval for the first steps of that project. in their first steps includes in it includes rebuilding or building a new juvenile justice center and addressing our alternative learning center. We are currently a guest in that building. They have gone through multiple iterations over the course of about I'm going to estimate five years trying to determine how are they going to do that. They have landed. They are taking an existing county building at 300 Beasley and creating an ALC in that building. I suspect they will use some of the impact fee funds to fund that. Uh just based on the discussions that we've had recently because we haven't had a

038new ALC in 30 years maybe maybe longer uh as we've been guests there and and we and we needed that extra space. They have a really good plan. It will if if the plan is actually completed give us some additional office space as well. Uh so our projection is that we ought to be able to have our safety team in that building uh along with the ALC. Uh so we'll share some additional details, but I wanted to let you know that because county government has approved funding for that. Brian, I don't know that they have a do they have a timetable, a construction timetable for that. Is it too is it too soon to mention a timetable, Eric? I see you smiling. So probably it's not wise to mention a construction timetable. Okay. So, we're

039excited about that that there that that that end is on the horizon. The address is 300 Beasley. There's a very solid building that we've actually examined. Uh we had Eric, I know you went and reviewed it. Solid solid building, if I'm not mistaken, poured concrete walls, very stable building uh that we're that the plan is for us to take over with some renovations to to create that ALC. They're gonna have a lot more space than they currently do. Anything else for operations? Okay. Uh I don't have a board chair report. So new business. First item is evaluation of the superintendent. Um Dana, are you handling this or someone else? I can handle it. So um per Tennessee state law, the um superintendent must there must be an evaluation. You all have completed that evaluation per

040state law there during the um board meeting on Monday. You will be voting to accept the um evaluation results. In other words, when you are looking at what you turned in, your scores, those were correctly tabulated. Um, that's that's your role Monday evening during the vote. Could Sorry. Go ahead. Could you rather ask you to do this than him? Could you give us a the recap of what the scores turned out to be in the aggregate? Thanks. I didn't receive all the scores. So, I am relying upon Lydia and Rachel Farmer who actually did the compilation. So, that's my full thing. Okay. Performance goals. That was um per the instrument that the board voted on for superintendent Golden's evaluations. The performance goal number one, the average was 3.00. Performance goal number two was 3.63. Performance

041goal number three, 2.96, which made a total of 9.59. overall average of 3.2 and those performance goals were 80% of his total goals. Thank you. You're okay. Okay. And then pursuant to um state law, there are um certain characteristics that the board must evaluate uh when doing the superintendent evaluation. Um the those are those include student achievement that average was 4.17 board relations average 3.71 community relations 3.92 staff and personnel relationships 3.54 facilities finance and human resources 3.63 for a total of 18.97 uh with an overall average of 3 79. All of those um that 3.79 is the remaining 20% of the evaluation and again that uh was determined by the board what that weight would be. Is there a total total? So waiting those two um the 80% for the performance and 20% for

042demonstrable um the overall total was a three average was a 3.32. All right. Thank you for that. Um Mr. Golden any response to that or feedback from you? Yes and and thank you board for for your feedback. Number one I mentioned the thanks. I very much appreciate your comments uh related related especially to to the really good work we're doing with those demonstrable characteristics at the you know that the state requires of us. I will tell you overall you know Dana just shared those numbers. Those numbers matter but I really study the comments. Uh the comments really do me a lot more good. The constructive the constructive opportunities uh for our team. Uh, and it was interesting to me that some of your comments actually mirrored or paralleled some of the discussions we've had as

043a leadership team, especially related to those five those five focus points that the state has. Student achievement board relationships, community relationships, staff and personnel relationships, and facilities, finance, and human resources. Every year since I've been superintendent, I have talked to our leadership team uh principles and our teachers about our focus points for the year. So, as an example, the first year, one of our focus points was don't go it alone. And and one of the things I talked about was there's a lot of good people in this district. A lot of brain power, a lot of experience. Don't live in isolation. Uh if if if there's something that's unusual to you, there's somebody who's been through it and we can help you. That's just one example. And that was six years ago, seven years ago

044actually by now. Um the the three focus points that we've talked uh about and we've introduced to our principles that we're still going to be refining over the next five or six weeks before we before we start our new school year uh include instruction safety uh and and uh relationships and then instructional uh our instructional focus that we're projecting for next year is growing students with unique learning needs. And I know that we had some comments related to that in our evaluation. We we celebrate our student successes. Uh but if you look at some of our raw numbers, some of our what the state calls subpopuls, the raw numbers can grow and we know that compared to other folks in the state, you know, rel, you know, comparatively we do really well, but that's a

045focus point for us instructionally this coming year. Uh second on safety, uh I've told the principles we're going to have a focus on safety every single year. And some of you all have heard me speak to to uh public groups that we'll never stop asking for help with safety. Uh we'll never stop investing in safety because it it is that important. Uh and what what we're looking at right now still to be refined is building student relationships as the foundation of safety and and that's going to be a focus point for us this coming year. And then when we talked about proactive engagement is our third uh with parent staff and stakeholder engagement and student centered decisions and we've talked about a focus in getting parents involved getting uh staff involved in in that and

046again some of you may notice that you made some comments related to that in your evaluation. So I I very much thank you all uh for that. Uh so that's the that's kind of the the the the chunk that's the state level and some of our focus points. I do want to speak uh to those annual goals that you set, Mr. Chair. As you mentioned, we we we started that annual goal in November. Uh and and as as I reflected on how we approach those goals, I think we've got room to grow, too, especially in communication. this year, more than most of the years I've been superintendent, the majority of those goals were goals that really just couldn't be completed in a year. Uh we the the one that could was was setting a pay

047plan based on the available funds, but the others are items that we're still working on. Uh the the uh the bullying process, it needs ongoing attention, and as you know, we're not done. As an example, Miss Hall has had that first meeting. She's gathered uh the the end ofear data. I know you're looking at it and double-checking if I'm not mistaken that you're projected to have that finished on June 23rd. We had this convers that week, the week of June 23rd. Uh and that's actually in keeping with what we've done these last few years where we gather up that data and we're going to let that data drive um some changes. You all may not remember this, but we made some changes last year as a result of some of our discussions creating some consistency

048in our discipline. And this year we had some push back uh from some of our families related related to that consistency. uh and so that that that team is looking at that. Uh and one key point that I asked them to specifically look at in that context is have we set particular minimum discipline consequences for students that doesn't that don't that that don't in any way take into account variations for students. And if that's the case, if a principal or an assistant principal believes there needs to be some variation, I'm going to use my old line. Don't go it alone. Bring that to to your administrator. Share that. Uh if if there's a if there's a reason why you need to make an adjustment for a student, let's have that conversation about that individual student.

049That's one example of of something that I've asked them to work on. And then the uh the other one, the annual goal, uh seek alternative funding methods. We've set structures in place for that, but it's going to have to be an ongoing effort. I know Mr. Galborth and I have had some discussions about uh and you guys heard a couple of months ago, if I'm not mistaken, discussion of uh of of some some advice committees from our athletics boosters. Uh have some detailed discussions related to that. Are there some corporate donations that over time we we we might be able to to to hit without negatively impacting the excellent work our boosters and PTO's have been doing. So I tell you that to tell you that uh number one I appreciate your feedback about how

050we've communicated that and our timelines because I don't think I did a good job of sharing with you that timeline over the over the course of our work. And number two, I haven't set those goals aside just because we've reached the end of the year. Those are some items that we need to continue to work on. The third piece is an ask I have of you. Uh um I'd like us to the chair's point have some discussions about trying to set those goals a little bit earlier in the school year. Uh and I will commit to you that I will communicate more often about those goals. Uh with that, again, thank you. Thank you so much for praising our te the work of our teachers uh and the work of our principles so often in

051my evaluation because it is personal. It can't you can't help but it being personal but it's really about our team as well. So I very much appreciate that. Thank you for that. Any um feedback from the board on the process or the evaluations themselves or what we'll be doing on Monday? All right, I don't see any. Okay, we will move on to 2526 budget status update, which we may have already heard, but is there anything more to add to that? I don't think so. Okay. Um All right. We're going to stick with you, Rachel. 2024 25 school board budget. So, um these are items for the current budget. What's remaining of it? Um I'll just as usual let you run through those item by item and if there's questions people uh from anyone just jump

052in. Thank you for that. Um the first two items are going to be related to summer school um which is occurring right now. But the way it works, the state grants, gives you an allocation of funding and then we um actually expend it ourselves and then submit reimbursement. And so what you're seeing before you is what was the allocation from the state. Um so we do have to go ahead and put it into the budget, both the revenue and expense, but we will not necessarily spend all of this. This is just what our allocation was. So the first one is related to the actual um camp itself and the allocation was in total $4,400,725. We've got no questions on that one. The next one is Mr. Chair, if I if I may, I'm at the

053risk of extending this too long. I do want to speak to the summer learning camps, which is the summer school. It's a K8 summer school. We have about 1,650 students in it right now. I actually received an email today from someone from the Tennessee Department of Education who visited in part maybe to check on us uh uh in the in the summer school program. And it was it was a it was it was some hefty praise we received from that from that state rep. Uh Laura Lechance, our exe one of our executive directors for elementary schools. I know you're deeply involved in that. she visited Walnut Grove uh and was very impressed with uh with what she saw. It's a valuable program. It is 100% funded by the state. So, the finance item hits that.

054I will say also, if I'm not mistaken, Rachel, the state actually funds gives us the opportunity for funding more than we actually need on that item. Am I correct about that? We got the same allocation as we did last year. And just as a reference point, we spent a little over $2 million last year on on the summer camps. And so the allocation was 4.4 million and again, we'll submit reimbursement when it's over with and see what that total is. But that's correct. So we can we can do up to 4.4 million, but it's not going to cost us anywhere near that, which means that money will remain in the state budget. You were correct, Dr. Johnson. They do not give it to us. The second item is um again related to summer camps, but

055it's specifically the transportation piece. Um and the total for that is $798,171. No questions on that. We'll move on to our next which was a donation from Gibson Gibbs which is Gibson guitars to the um fine arts department specifically to be used on instruments and equipment and that contribution was $49,410 happy at any time to accept those donations. Um the next one uh is also a fine arts donation and it was from a family. Go ahead. Can I stop you real quick? Um Miss Clemens has a question on the phone. about summer camps. Hey. Hey everybody. Um, real quick. So, I know last year we didn't always and and I brought this up with the state uh delegation, but we didn't always have an SRO at our summer camps. Has this will the state uh

056make sure that that they cover that? Brian, can you speak to that? Yes, sir. So that's that's not a really a funding issue as much as it is a lot of our SRO's are off in the summer. They build up their time. Uh the other thing is and Mark and they do a lot of training uh in the summer with uh different u deputies. So typically in the summer it may not be an assigned SRO per school. It'll may rotate. They'll have somebody different on different days. it may be in an area they may check in but not stay there all day. So we try to do as much as we can uh for these three weeks but it is a little bit different than it is during the school year. So Brian in a

057nutshell I think what you're saying is the sheriff's office does commit to having somebody there but it may not be the same person every day. May not be the same person and it may not be the entire day. it, you know, there's some they may go to one school for part of the day and another school for another, that kind of thing. Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Go ahead, Rachel. Okay. The next item, I don't know that I finished saying that, but the Dunaway family is a someone who has given a donation also to fine arts, and that is for $1,000. No questions on it. We will move on to uh TCAT which is the Tennessee College of Applied Technology. They work with us uh in providing some additional funds for teachers that are

058working alongside and teaching the classes um that benefit our students that are taking courses at TCAT to help train additional teachers to work in this in this area. So the allocation from them is $5,73723 to be used for stipens for that training. The central cafeteria fund also has and this is an annual year-end item that comes through. It's a revenue and expense. So, it's neutral. It's it is to tie d back to the exact number that came through USDA commodities and they receive that number from the USDA in the beginning of June, late May. And so then we bring it back to you just to make the budget um align with what they've actually given us this year. And so that adjustment is $570,28612 and they give us the initial amount as as Mr. Romani

059went through the budget this year in this adjustment. They've provided that amount to start with and then they'll come back and and make the adjustment. Those are our amendments. And then we have intracategory transfer. So this is something I've kind of said, but I want to be clear. If a within a major category, if we have items where we see uh you may have one line a little over or less p uh hybrid, we may need to move from pin one form of a pension to another or different um things like that. If it's in a major category, we do transfers, but then we bring them all to you at the end of the year. If it's between major categories, we bring those back to you and you vote on those throughout the year. So

060you will have three votes on Monday night with a listing of each one for 141 which is general purpose for the central cafeteria 143 and for extended school care these transfers. Um and so again those are will be or they're in the packet and you can go through and see what the transfers look like and if y'all have questions about any of those please feel free um to reach out to me and I'll get you the detail. Do do you have a feel for as far as tax collections and and our purchasing freeze that we always that we always do and and empty positions as far as where we where we look in relation to what our fund balance will be compared to what we thought it was going to be? That's a great question

061and we're I will say we're right in line with where I was projecting earlier. Um, we are trying, we tried to get it done today so I could have a number for you, um, to project out the rest of the payroll through August because we acrew, we pay out over 24 pays for our teachers and so we do one big acrual. We did not get that finished today. So hopefully um, tomorrow we will get be able to finish that up. Uh, we also will cut off 100% of purchase orders being issued tomorrow. It's still open for emergencies right now. So really after tomorrow, this weekend, I'll be able to work and have a better number. But it is pretty much in line with where whenever I came in March and where we were projecting. It's

062pretty close. You're always conservative. So I know you I am conservative. That's not a bad thing. No, but it is in line. We are. Thanks. So again, you'll have those three votes on Monday night for each one of those. And then the last thing I have for you is it is one of those housekeeping items where you all have voted already on the capital our annual capital. You did that through the budget process. Um just like the the budget committee was meeting tonight. They go through the budget process and approve those. But in order for it to come before the full commission, it has to be in resolution form. So you will get the resolution form. It's the numbers you've already voted on and approved as has the budget committee. But it just has to

063be in resolution. and they bring all of their capital, ours plus theirs, in the month of July. We don't meet in the month of July. So, I'm bringing it to you now in June so that they'll have it to vote on in the month of July. And that total, just as a reminder to everybody, was 14,135800. And that's all I have. Thank you. Any any questions for Rachel on any of those items? Um before we move on to D, I'm going to go back to Jason on one item related to the evaluation that um I think was is worth him pointing out um relative to a different approach this year to his contract uh compared to previous years. So I'll let him walk through that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I I I failed to

064mention this. We do have on the annual agenda a vote on on my contract on a renewal of my contract and the maximum allowable term for a superintendent in a contract is four years. And traditionally we've done a we've we've we've had that annual vote every year. The board when they hired me uh a little over six years ago started me at a four-year contract and every year there's been a vote. And I'm of the opinion that with half of our board having worked with me for nine months that asking for a annual extension from three to four years now is is premature. And so I'm actually not asking for an extension from three to four years now. I do intend to ask for that later after we've had a chance to to to continue

065to grow in our relationship and and and and spend some more time working. But I want to mention that my contract actually extends currently through 2028 and I don't plan to go anywhere. Uh and and so that I I didn't see a significant difference between June of 28 and June of 29. And so felt like it was not appropriate for me to ask you all this year to extend that from three to four. But I but I do anticipate that we'll have those that discussion later on this year. Thanks for that. So, I thought it was important to bring that up because he and I have discussed it, but also routinely for those of us who've been on the board that that vote accompanies the evaluation vote. And so, we wouldn't be doing that Monday

066night. And so, in case that question came up, I wanted him to provide that context. And I don't I'm not going to ask him to do that again Monday night, but um but for the benefit of all of us, I wanted him to share that. So, any any thoughts or feedback on that before we keep going? Okay. Um, item D, approval of differentiated pay. Mr. Golden. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For a few years now, I'm thinking maybe a decade or so, the state of Tennessee has had us do an annual report on differentiated pay. Uh, Vicky Hall has included the detail of that differentiation for you. Uh, a lot of it is related to signing bonuses and hiring bonuses for for hard to fill areas. Uh so as an example, our special education teachers get

067some additional get some additional funding. You can see that our total cost right now for differentiated pay is 1.225 million. Uh I do want to let you know and I know um Dr. Reeds and I had a brief email discussion related to this. There's actually a new law in Tennessee that specifically allows for pay related to to test scores and performance. Uh we're not there yet. Um uh we see some research out there. uh and and I but I felt like it was important for you to know that that that that law is out there and that we do not have any recommendations related to that. Uh and there we we do see that from from from from place to place there's some discussion about that with that new law. I'm curious to see whether

068that that those kinds of dis discussions start happening more often in Tennessee. Um, we have seen some good and bad out of that in the in what we've seen and there's some research on both sides of that. But I just felt like it was worth mentioning that there is a new state law related to that. Certainly open to any questions you may have and Miss Hall may may be able to speak to uh to to some of the questions you might have related to our detail as well. Jason, what does that what does that law actually actually say about about performance-based compensation? it it's very short and it basically as I understand it just opens the door for the possibility and it doesn't give any more detail if I'm not mistaken Dana it may be

069something like seven or eight total lines if if that but I can't remember that specific detail but yes it is short and I can I'll send it um to y'all so you can see what it see what it says. It was also addressed in state board policy um that that that predates that we could um in fact have an alternative pay schedule. It is something we have to work on and it's um kind of defined by a pay chart that deviates from the basic state chart. So we would have to define like how we were going to measure the performance. We wouldn't give automatic roles for experience and education. It's that type of thing. And it does require state board approval. So, I guess I've I've talked to you over the over the years about

070the about the possibility of of having some discretionary um amount of our of our raise pool, if you will, um to give in the form of of bonuses to and discretionary at the at the principal level um to be able to provide bonuses. I I wasn't necessarily thinking that it would be directly related to test scores necessarily, but but in a a way for for principles to to basically incentivize and to reward whomever whatever teachers they felt were were or or it could be other it could be classified employees as well, but um people that they thought did a did an exemplary job and it would be in the form of it wouldn't be changing the pace scale it would be a bonus. Would that be would that be part of this differentiated? Would we

071have to report that here as far as differentiation? So we would and part of that part of how we have addressed that is those uh teachers who excel are some of those that receive those instructional or those leadership um supplements that we talk about during supplements where we list those out, those academic ones. And so they they're they're tied in to the differentiated pay plan, but they're kind of doing I mean they're they are doing more work. I mean a little they're giving more responsibility for that for that additional pay. That's true. Yeah. I'm just thinking I'm I'm just thinking maybe as we as we think about next year. I'm certainly not trying to try to do anything for this one, but as we think about the future, um I'd love to see, you know,

072some some percentage, maybe some growing percentage um that's allocated to that. I just think it I think it would go I I get that it's it's a we don't want to put tons of money there because it's it'd be a really big shift away from everybody, you know, getting the same percentage, but in in some cases, you want your um you want your best people to to feel like they're they they're they're seen and they can they can be incentivized. So, we'll we'll make sure that we talk to the WCA leadership about that through the through the PEKA process. Um, and and and I see what you're saying. There there probably some models out there that would be worth reviewing to to see where where there could be some value there. Is this like achievement

073or growth or is that just way too far down the line to Well, as I as I understand it, the the potential is there for both. Okay. Um, and I will tell you professionally, I'm leerary of it. I I my first question is in in that context, what problem are we trying trying to solve and what are the tools to solve it? You know, so for us to do something like that, for me as a leader, I'd want to have some a lot of discussions before we we went down that road because I've seen it gone go bad in some places. Okay. Thank you. This may be in there somewhere and I'm not seeing it, but on these early signing bonuses and hiring bonuses, is there a length of time that the teacher has to

074stay in the role in order to retain that or is it can it be clawed back if they leave early? The early contract bonus is paid the first month. So, we are taking a risk. Okay. The um $1,000 we do pay it in halves. We pay the first 500 the first semester and then the second 500. I mean the first semester and then the second 500 the second. And I to give you a little explanation why we do that is because we are recruiting uh those new teachers who were out and often there are moving expenses and like putting down a deposit on a department and frankly just com competition in the market. all our biggest competitors are offering a similar type of signing bonus for those hard to fill positions. And if I may

075add a little bit, we worry about those first year teachers in their first paycheck. Um that can be a big issue. They're finishing college and and because of the pay structure, they're getting their first paycheck halfway through the their first month of work. And so we so especially for those for those new ones, we feel like it's a it's a difference maker to get them some cash on the front end. So um did have we heard any more I guess I don't know if that we talked about it the last couple of months but about the the bonus for teachers that was part of the part of the bill. So I'll give you I'll give you Oh, sorry. You go ahead. That's okay. We've been we've been working on it. We've had to go through

076the list because it's you'd think it wouldn't be complicated, but we have to sort out like what teachers are actually teachers as or defined in the law that get the bonus. So to answer your question, yes, my department and Rachel's department have been working on that and we have to have I think they'll get our finalist to us June 15th. 16 days. So yes, what will they will they be notified? And do you know who is outside of having an eligible teaching position? Is it do they do they have to be do they have to continue to be employees for next year or is it just they actually don't. Okay. They could have left here even the it's a they had to have worked 120 days and if they've worked 120 days for WCS last

077year we'll full-time we'll send it we we we owe them the $2,000. Okay. So logistically the state will give us the list that they've interpreted are is is the is the right people based on their definition out of our out of our electronic system. Um and Rachel will we have time to review that and we'll have time to review that and potentially appeal depending on depending on our data. they will actually give us the funding for it in July, which means we will actually have to do a budget amendment in July because we don't know how much fund how much how much we're actually going to get. Uh, and then we will pay that out directly to those employees, some of whom have actually retired. Rachel, I was going to say we will have to

078respond. We have to have the information back to them by June 30th so that they can pay it. So, we'll have two weeks essentially to be able to verify and then as Mr. Golden said that we our goal would be to pay out at the end of um a August 15th, the end of August because then that just we have to wait and make sure the money comes in and then we'll turn around and again what you said it could be retirees or it could also be people that have left the district and gone to another. But do you have to get a do we have to get a budget amendment before we pay it out? Not technically. Um, we will bring a budget amendment because we need to put it into the budget, but

079because it is a flow through, it's not our taxpayer dollars. Let's do it in August. This is sort of in the weeds, but are these bonus numbers gross numbers or net numbers? 20,000 gross. It's gross. And so they will have they will have deductions that come out of that. And if I'm not mistaken, the state has told us they actually intend to fund the total amount of FICA and FAS FICA and the retirement portion. So, we we should not be out of pocket for either. Okay. Anything else on the uh pay plan? All right. Item E, board policies for first and final reading. We've got three of those. Um, first one is 4.7000 testing programs. Uh, I don't know Jay or Dana how you want to handle this. Um, coming out of policy committee, but

080these are as a reminder first and final. So, these will get one for now, one discussion, one vote. Um, I can take the first two at least. Those are um legal compliance. You may remember that uh last month we changed board policy 4.7 to allow for um end of um end of course. Thank you. I couldn't think of what that word was. Um and that those would be calculated at 15%. Um so we have two additional policies when that uh was approved. We also need to update policy 4.700 testing programs. That change is on page two. Um stating the weighted the 15% for the second semester. Then we've got the TCAP grades in six through eight. We are currently calculating those at 10%, we would like to continue that. And student scores for TECAP grades

0813 through five um should not be used for student grades. Again, this is the waiting um that we are currently doing, but we do need to update this policy first and final reading. Do you want me to go ahead to middle school? Let's see if are there any questions on that one before we do that? Okay, go ahead Dana. So similarly with 4.7002 middle school examinations, we found that that particular policy um had elementary in there. So we would like to delete that um so that and go ahead and delete the other information about middle school examinations so that it is in one all three are listed in one policy. So that is the recommend that is the reason for that recommended middle school examinations change. So we are consistent with board policy 4.7001. So,

082both of those would be before you for first and final editorial um and legal compliance changes. Any questions on that one? All right. Then the third one is 6.312 which is a new policy on wireless communications. Okay. So, um, board members, as you may recall, the, um, there's a use of wireless communications, a, uh, law that passed, and we, the board needs to adopt a policy, um, law becomes effective on July 1 of 2025. So, what you will see, um, I'm going to talk about first what you see and then some proposed changes. um for that I've received from a couple different board members. So, initially um in blue we added in red from the policy meeting students in grades K through eight um may possess a wireless communication device so long as such devices

083are turned off and stored. The law requires students um may possess a wireless communication device if they are they but they cannot be used during instructional time. So there was some discussion to change turned off and stored um that they could possess it but they could not use during instructional time uh policy at policy that grades K through 8 and it was changed to during the school day. So for high school students in grades 9 through 12, still the same that they could possess it as long as it is turned off and stored during the school day. Students in grades 9 through 12 may use that device during the students lunch period. There was additionally commu um discussion at policy about the students being allowed to use a communication device during transition times that is

084not spelled out in the policy. And the reason that students lunch period is is that in most if not all of our high schools, students have the opportunity during that lunch period for um maybe RTI, maybe to go to a teacher to get additional help. It is not mandatory, but they have that opportunity. So, I wanted to make we wanted to make it clear that during that lunch period, regardless of the activity, um they can use their phone. Um Dr. Web and received information and feedback from middle school and high school principles about these changes. And when I'm done, I'm sure y'all will want to hear that. Um, they had some some good feedback. The Let me see what else. The only other change, um, again, penalties change the duration of instructional time to the

085school day. Um, oh, sorry. was the um was at the bottom the emergency communication plan. That is an edit um that staff is recommending so that it is clear that a parent or guardian might be alerted by text message and or an email and or a phone call. Didn't want parents to uh think they would get a text message and an u comm it was comma email. So that's just for clarification purposes. I know there have been some additional proposed changes in addition to what is on the screen. And I and I will close with this. What's in blue um is what the law requires us to have it as as a minimum. It's the floor. I mean, it's the ceiling of what's required. If we if the if it's so I would be comfortable

086with a first and final. If it's the will of the board to make numerous changes, my recommendation would be we're not just at a legal compliance piece. We would need to do two readings. So, I just wanted to kind of put that out there so you are aware. Um, I know like I said, Dr. Webb has some comm has some information from principles. If if I may before Dr. speaks. Dana, just as a small point of clarification, um you said that the blue is what the law requires. The turned off language at the end of the first line. I know that reflects the TSBA's recommended language and your recommended language, but if I'm not mistaken, the turned off is not specifically in the law. Correct. What the um what the law says is that they

087may possess such items. they may not use such items during instructional time. So if I don't have any issue if the board wants to change that language to instead of turned off and stored to they they cannot use um a wireless communication device. How are we defining school day? Like is that bellto bell? Is that while they're on the premises like certain amount of hours? So in other policies we have defined it as our seven what is it 7 point whatever it is you know what I'm saying seven 7 point whatever um is how we have defined school day that would be the same so if they're if they're there early for or after for extracurriculars wouldn't apply would not apply that's a great question correct yes we we define school day as the moment

088that first bell rings until that last bell rings. Gotcha. Sorry, I interrupted. I know you tried to call in Dr. Webb to give some detail. All right. Thank you. So, I'm happy to share some additional feedback. Uh I reached out to our secondary school principles just to collect their feedback since our policy conversation at the policy meeting. As I anticipated with our middle school principles, this policy matches our current practice. uh middle school students um put away their cell phones currently when the school day begins and they access them at the end of the day. Uh there's no access to those phones during the day. We also collected some feedback about recess. I know recess came up about middle school um our middle school students don't have access to their cell phones or their Chromebooks

089during recess. Um there are or during our physical activity time. I would say the only exception could be if it's raining or storming and maybe a teacher's leading something on their screen in their classroom as a supplemental activity. There could be that screen that's utilized, the teacher screen uh but not individual devices typically. Uh as far as high school's concerned, it was some really great feedback um that uh that I received. Specifically, uh some principles shared just the change and transition over the years in study hall. You know, typically you would walk by a study hall class. If you're walking down the hall, you kind of recognize um which classroom has an active high school study hall and which class is an academic class by the tone and demeanor of the classroom. And the feedback

090I received from them that that's kind of shifted over the last few years that the study halls now are as quiet as the academic classes because the students are on a screen, right? They may be on their cell phone. They may be listening to music on their iPad or their um iPhone uh etc. And so I've received some feedback of um it's caused them to pause building leaders about what's really taking place in those study all classes. Are they on a screen engaging uh on their Chromebook or are they perhaps engaging on their cell phones and in a non-academic way? So some good feedback that we received. Ultimately at the high school level, uh collectively we support the uh the non-use of cell phones during instruction time and the non-use of cell phones during study

091hall. Uh we feel like that would be a positive change and transition um and easy to manage. So we support that. Uh and again it was great conversation that we hadn't had previously in regards to the study hall period. So I was thankful for that uh conversation at the at the policy meeting. um lunchtime is is a little bit more difficult to manage. We do have older students and um our our conversations have been is that a proper time to teach students the proper use of technology, right? So, um a lot of our students have jobs, after school activities they're communicating, that's a proper time during your lunch to check in uh to see if you've got some missed messages perhaps about your work or communicate however you need to and then shut it off

092and go back to work. Um, so our conversations have been not only about is that an appropriate use for a high school student, uh, maybe so, um, but also teaching the limitation of when you get back to business, it's time to get back to business and put your technology away. Uh, management during lunch also becomes difficult at the high school level because students are in a lot of different places. Um, and so, uh, we did have some conversations about how would we manage that? we would need some more conversation about how we would manage that if if we were um enforcing that and anytime that we have a rule or an expectation, we want to make sure we have a good enforcement plan and we would need to spend more time talking about the lunchtime

093supervision piece of it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but we need we need more time to kind of plan for that to uh and communicate around that if that ends up being uh where we head. Um, class changes also are a little bit more difficult to manage and police just because kids are in transition, right? They're in and out of the restroom, they're headed down the hall. Um, teachers are moving from class to class. Supervision is there, but it's less focused on individual students. Um, but as far as the high school piece, um, we're all in on the academic periods, which a lot of our schools are are already working on and already have their plans for the upcoming school year, and we're all in on on, uh, study halls not having access. I'm happy

094to answer any additional questions, but it's been a really great conversation, I will say, over the last several months on this topic. Okay, Jay, do you want to add anything from the policy committee's perspective or I know you had emailed today some suggested changes that you were going to bring up. So, you want to do that now or you want to wait? Yeah, I I guess not not really fair to I mean my my comments were were more related to to my personal opinion versus the versus the policies to be fair. So, um so no, y'all can we can just have a discussion. and I I'm I'm happy to talk about it. Okay. All right. Let's open it up for comments. Yeah. Dr. Webb, you didn't mention um recess time for the high school. Um

095is that is that going to be a time for well any at any grade level? Are they going to be allowed to bring their cell phones outside because that's defeating the purpose of some physical training or whatever? Uh that's a good point. the our physical activity time looks different in each high school and so we're we're streamlining and the process of streamlining um those activities at this time. Uh we didn't spend a lot of time talking about the the cell phone use uh during that time. In most of our high schools there are options, you know, there are options of physical activity, go see a teacher as Miss Osber mentioned. Um there are different options that students can partake in, sit and socialize with your friends. Um, we haven't spent a lot of time talking

096about the cell phone access during that time. Um, we would just need a pretty structured supervision plan if that were uh going to be an enforcement period for us. It's not impossible, but we just need more conversation surrounding it. And and Mr. Cash, if I may, the um in our student wellness policy that we'll get to this evening, the law changed that states no um use of electronics during elementary PE or recess, the unstructured play, not PE, unstructured play. It is silent for middle and high school. the law change. So, it is included, the cell phone provision during elementary is included in the student wellness policy we'll talk about a little bit later tonight. Well, the whole purpose of this and and creating a state law is to possibly help students communicate eye to eye

097rather than sit in on these phones. That's right. I mean, it's it's epidemic. Um I an example I was dropping my grandson off and I pulled out into the bus lane and there's a young man walked right into the front of my truck. I cracked up. I laughed. It shocked him. I should have blew the horn, but I didn't. But I mean, it's that bad. And I think that the the purpose of the state law is to get kids to start communicating eye to eye, having a conversation eye to eye, and it makes a big difference. Um, lunchtime, uh, that that's a great time to get the phones out and start gossiping and sending some home, somebody home with with hurt feelings and another bullying situation. And uh so I I my personal opinion like

098Jay said, this is my personal opinion, no phones at lunch, no phones in the uh at the the break time for a little bit of exercise, maybe walking or maybe a little volleyball game or a soccer game or something. That's the purpose especially for little kids is to move and burn energy. That's right. So, I think, you know, I I commend the principles because they're going to have to deal with this, but at the same time, at some at some period of time, we have to get after the elementary students and break them of the habit before it gets started. That's fair. And and so just for clarity, at the elementary and the middle, no access from the beginning period of the day until the closing period of the day. And um those other auxiliary

099periods that you mentioned for high school, uh I'm not saying that those are impossible managerial situations. They just present their own challenges with the flexibility of where kids are and what the supervision looks like. uh we simply just need more time to plan what the most effective way uh to manage that use would look like in a looser supervised area uh with that many students you're talking about you know in some in most of our schools around 15600 students all at the same time um out and around the building with our our supervision it just we'll we'll just have to plan for that if that's the board's the board's decision I have a follow-up question for you Dr. web. Um just with the teach with the principal feedback and the noticing the difference between study

100halls and academic classes, what what was their perception of that? Were they did they were they concerned about that? They were concerned about it and a lot of the buildings they already having conversations about it ahead of this policy. Um since we had transitioned uh the academic classes to their phones being away, many of our schools already had a practice similar to that already. Um, and so yeah, it was concerning and so, uh, it was a it was a good feedback session. Um, it was good feedback and I think that we're we're going to continue to have more conversations about more ways to restrict and more ways to build community. We're also having at a parallel time outside of this policy conversations about how to build community and how to teach students to build community.

101Uh, we see more than ever that's a challenge for students. communicating face to face, looking someone in the eye and having a direct communication versus head down into a device. Uh so we're also at the same time talking about how we build community with our students and uh giving them the opportunity through the leadership of an adult who is overseeing a small group of students uh helping them build community face to face with each other. So all all those pieces are um have been things that we've those two pieces especially especially the community building has been something that we've been working on for quite some time. We consider the community aspect of building community with kids part of our safety plan. Right? Students feel safe when they feel com feel connected. They feel safe when

102they know that there's an adult who they can trust, who they built community with. students who they've built community with that they can talk to if there's something that's bothering them or go and confide in if there's something going that feels unsafe around them. Tech technically speaking, do you consider or do we consider instructional time to include the study hall period or not? So for the purpose of this policy, we would I think on a typical basis, I wouldn't consider a study hall instructional time, but for the imple uh implementation of this policy, we support considering study hall as an academic class. I would think that outside of of our conversation now, most people would consider study hall not instructional time, but for the sake of this policy, we would support considering one and the

103same. So if if we were to use the the terms instructional time, which right now have been stricken, but if we were to use those terms, it would capture study hall. I think that for someone who's reading that outside of this conversation, I would think that that's only academic classes, which is not a study hall. So my feedback for you all would be if your intent is for it not to for students not to have their cell phone devices out during study hall that we specify that or specify in the POS policy the only time that students are allowed K12 to access their cell phones. I think if I'm a a teacher or I'm a principal reading it if it only said instructional time my deferral would be only only those academic periods not study

104hall. Does that answer your question? It does. Okay. So thinking through this, one of the things is with the wearable technology, I'm thinking earbuds and listening to music. And obviously it's not something we want them doing while they're in getting history lecture or a math instruction, but I can see a lot of scenarios where it would be okay. You use the one of study hall um you know being able to sort of lock in and focus, but but also a weights class. um an art class as you're working on a project uh CAD uh a lot of other scenarios would it be that was loud um would this restrict that or would it be able to fall under authorized by a teacher for educational purposes if they're using it for sort of that I guess

105the the question is what is the the flexibility there. Um, I would leave it to you all in the wording, but how I would interpret it is that if this were implemented during study hall, I wouldn't listen to my music. Um, my because that's connected to my it's connected to my cell phone. I'm a music lady. I listen to music when I'm working. I I confess that 7 a.m. one day this week, Mr. Golden came in. I had to turn my music down. No one else was in the office. So, I know that some students um work work better with a little music in the background. And I've been in study halls before where the teacher has had some music playing in the background uh while students are working. But how I read this policy

106is that those devices and and maybe maybe it's my interpretation is that those devices would not be utilized during study hall. Um if if I may, I'm going to give an answer that's slightly different based on Dana the technicality of this law. Um, and the law is written, I'm going to use a word peculiarly, uh, in that, and I know you just, you had a little facial reaction, Dana, but this because the law says each local board of ed shall adopt and implement a wireless communication device policy that, except as provided in the two through four, three examples, except as that, prohibits a student from using a wireless communication device during instructional time. One of the exceptions is the the policy must authorize a teacher to allow a student to use a wireless communication device

107for educational purposes during instructional time. In other words, the teachers are the decision makers the way this law reads. So if we are determining that study hall is instructional time then the teach then we we have to give the teachers that authority. Well I think did I describe that well? So yes. So I mean so to to Eric's point that is in my mind within teachers discretion. If I am an art teacher and part of the lesson is while listening to music you create XYZ then the teacher has that discretion. That's just the first example I came up with. Um yes it's not it is not for us I don't think to come up with all of the scenarios in which a teacher could authorize but that is an exception just like if it is

108documented in a student's IEP that the student needs read aloud the student needs to record um all of those are exceptions so it it's going even though um well and also I'm also going to point out the healthcare plan we talked about. We do have students who use their phone to monitor um and check for if they're diabetic. That is an exception. That check could occur during the instructional time if it is document documented in their individual health care plan. So while it it is a there are definitely exceptions that will occur during the school day if that's how you wish to define it during the a and or during the instructional time. So going back to kind of my original question with this then and I and I realize this is the tail wagging

109the dog. Um you know but in that scenario where students working in drafting class and is is drawing out their kitchen and the circuits and and what have you. they're locked in focused. Is there that flexibility within that? Then they can say that the student can ask for permission, receive it. If the teacher wants to give to them and say, "Hey, can I put my earbuds in? Can I some music? Can I lock in and block out the noise and just work on this because that's what I'm doing in those scenarios. Does that qualify as an educational purpose? Something like that. Is is is that flexibility in there?" And and I don't know if that's just the scenario, but there's other things. No, that's that's a that's that's a good way to put the question.

110And Dr. Webb, uh, I'd like you to speak to that, especially in the high school level. At the high school level, that's definitely a scenario that that happens where students listen to music as they're, you know, in CAD class. It sounds like maybe you're speaking from your your own children's experience. I think I've walked in and seen your children listening to their their music while they're in CAD class. Um, I think that that is definitely something that uh students are going to request to do. And so my recommendation would be if that's something that the board intends to allow that we specify that in some way because if I'm reading this as a teacher, right, I'm not necessarily associating that authorized for educational purposes listening to my music. I'm not making that direct correlation there.

111I don't know that I would either. And so that's why I wonder is is the language which There's there's the letter of the law and then there's the spirit of the law which I think that the spirit of the law we're all on board with but the letter of the law I don't know if it I wonder if it's it's too restrictive um the way it's it's worded and I don't have a solution for it. I'm just bringing up potential problems. Yeah. One of the things that I've thought a lot about and and some of this is speaking to it is that the the further the further we get into this conversation, the further away we get from the letter of the law what we're actually required to do in our policy by July 1,

112the the more complicated this gets. And it's one of the reasons why my inclination personally is that we adopt this policy that we have to adopt per the law by July 1 and then give ourselves the ability to come back in the future, not the distant future but the near future and revise it bas and partly based on some of these nuances but partly based on the fact that we have a technology committee that we created that each of us got to appoint somebody to serve on um and parents um who we wanted by doing that to have input into this process and I just strongly feel like we need to let that committee at least have a chance to do some work and put some thought into this and give us some feedback even

113if we may know 99% of what we're what we we may think we know 99% of what's going to come out of that process. I think it in fairness to that process, it it gives them a chance to give that input and it gives us more time to think about some of these details that are clearly not um as clear as we'd like them to be. So, the urgency of the law is putting pressure on us to get something on paper and voted on and and and in policy, but we we're not really required to go beyond that. So that's why I'm a little hesitant to do much more than what the law requires us to do personally, but I know there's different feelings about that. So we should discuss it. So for for me,

114I guess something that Dr. Web said, um, so you said you said that that policing during lunch would would be would be an issue, but but how is policing at high school during lunch different than than middle school? It's a great question. In in many of our high schools, the flexibility of where students are is more vast. In middle school, it's more structured. Students are in the cafeteria. Um, they're sitting at tables. It's it's um it's a really structured lunch environment at the sec at the high school level. Um most of our high schools give students the flexibility and be in multiple areas if they want to sit with their friends in the hallway. They're spread out. Supervision is more spread out. Um it's just a less as students get older, the structure of that

115time is u less structured. That's fair. Um the but I I guess the to me one thing that Josh said that I don't necessarily disagree with is that is that the by if we if we did if we did make this and my recommendation is is to make it is to make this K12 for the school day. Um, but for from my perspective, it's actually it's actually easier and more consistent if the phones just don't come out during the day. Like it it's not hard. I mean, I I get Yes. There if if kids are in unpredictable places and there's not real supervision. I mean it that's that's just the definition of of high school more more so than middle school where where kids are are are more in more places throughout the school day

116not just not just during lunch but um but the expect if the expectation is you don't have your phone out then if wherever you are if you have your phone out then I mean it's not it's not going to be terribly hard to um hard to see. Um, and so I just think that there's there's no there's no good academic reason why we're why we would leave phones at lunch. The the reason is only as best I could see it as a as a as a stop gap or or to provide some some time to to manage from a from a change management process. But in my opinion, that actually elongates the the inevitable and it it makes it makes us focus more on more on phones that I think we we want to do

117in the in the future. And my my recommendation for for the for the technology committee would be between now and the start of school, help the help staff um be a sounding board for these issues that we know and can that we know are going to come up. And if they don't come up from us being identify them, then the then our our parent and teacher representatives on the committee will mo will be pretty reflective of the of the community as a whole. And we'll raise issues like Eric raised or like Grayson raised about um about, you know, turning the phone off. And so, um, I guess my I'd like to break these things down into into a couple of different potential changes, but the first one is to is to Jason's point and to

118Drayson's um, in terms of tracking and, you know, being able to see the see the phone is I would I'd like to I'd like to go back to the to the state recommended lang or this the state law language and that and it would just be So, as long as such devices are not used during the school day, um I just think that I think that turning them off is a is going to is going to avoid or not not putting the turnoff language is going to avoid some is going to address some concerns that are going to that are going to come up. And so, I got lost. What's that? I got lost. You want change it back? I want to change it. Well, I want to change it to not used instead of

119turned off and stored. Not just not used. Okay. Not used in silence. I just not during the day at all. Not used during the day, right? So, instead of like this one, this one says turned off and stored. So, forget forget K8 through K12 for a minute, but just the language for for K8. um instead of saying turned off and stored just such devices are not used during the school day. If if I may um I know Mr. Beasley's uh listening one of the one of the things he mentioned was at the elementary level um parents using some apps to know where their children are. That was that was the that was the issue he raised that you referenced. And if the if if the device is off, those apps aren't some of those apps

120aren't working. Maybe all of them. I don't know that off the top of my head. Just for clarity's purposes, that was the that was that distinction that you mentioned. But for that point, I would think having using language that says turned off and not used makes it maybe more likely that the kids grab them and and use them than if they were turned off. But but except for that point, which is a valid point. So, um, to your point about the committee, Mr. Chair, I think that all of the data supports pretty strongly an away for the day policy. And I think Dr. Allen referenced that in our policy committee. It is it is a no-brainer. And if if you don't mind, I'd like to share a quote from an MIT professor, um, Sher Turkl.

121And in her book, Reclaiming Conversation, um, because of our phones, she writes, "We are forever elsewhere. If we want children to be present, learn well, make friends, and feel like they belong at school, we should keep smartphones and social media out of the school day for as long as possible." So, I strongly agree with with that sentiment and I think where the committee could have a role is in the implementation and the refinement of the policy. Um Jonathan height in his book Anxious Generation highlights two very obvious things and Mr. Cash highlighted them earlier and one is giving kids more free play at high school. That means more socialization time and two is putting the phones away a bell-to-bell policy. So that's where I am on it. I think that delaying it just it's delaying

122the inevitable. Um and I think the committee can have a role in refining implementation and then of course addressing the other technology uh use issues that we are interested in evaluating. Oh, go ahead Tanya. Um I agree with Dr. Reeves. And I also just want to add that um with Dr. Webb's comments about the communication with the high school students is a big issue. And I I do think that, you know, Dr. Reeves um opinion is is what solves that. And that's what we have to um get our community to understand that um that's the really the truly the way to get this accomplished and to work on um just restoring relationships and communication and and feeling um community. Um because that also like you stated is a safety issue as well when kids feel

123isolated and lonely and it's what solves the problem. well, it doesn't solve their problem, but it it um decreases the problem of anxiety and depression and um so uh those are my comments. Thanks. I think I mean obviously going going bell-to-bell is a pretty decisive move and pretty pretty final ultimate move which which is one we may get to anyway eventually in this process. I'm wondering thinking about what you said about the implementation leveraging the committee to talk about implementation. Um what are the things that what what does anyone think I guess about this as far as what are the aspects of implementation beyond us setting the parameters of bell-to bell that they could possibly be weighing in on? Um because I'm just really sensitive, as I said before, about not making an ultimate decision

124that renders the the committee kind of useless. So I want I want them to be effective and bring value. Yeah. Um so so I don't want I want to kind of think through what that might look like. I mean decisions like related to um um penalties um decisions related to are the kids just going to keep the phones with them in their backpacks? Are are we going to get yonder pouches? Are we do we have enough lockers at schools where they use a locker to put their phone away before the first bell and pick it up at the end of that those kind of decisions easily? I mean, we don't want I mean to the point about um we don't want teachers to constantly be having to police this. So, I think Mr. Galbreth makes

125a great point about consistency, uniformity, and this seems to be actually the simplest thing to address that when you start to introduce variation. Um e even the committee can speak to you know teachers and staff on the committee might want to talk about just point two on the um on the exceptions of when authorized by a teacher for educational purposes. What does that look like? What does that mean? So all all of those sorts of conversations I think are valid for the committee to provide input on. Yeah, agreed. And and I guess I guess to that point on on um that's exactly what I was going to say actually, but the um on the penalties if if we are going to change instructional time to the school day, um I think we I think it's

126probably best on on line 24 to change instructional time to the school day. Um because if not the I mean and and we do say may result and not shall um but unauthorized use may result in confiscation of a student's wireless communication device for the duration of the of the of the school day. It al that that also implies that there's that there may also be a time that it's confiscated for just the duration of a particular class period. Um, so I it just leaves some it leaves some um some options there, but it's not I think it's ambiguous on what on what that what that actual instructional time means after we pulled it out of the policy. I'm going to add a little bit because we've talked uh as a leadership team about that

127potentially ambiguity of instructional time as well. And part of the context was what Dr. Webb mentioned already with respect to study hall. Another piece I think she's touched on, but just for clarity sake again, some of a high school students lunch could be instructional time depending on what they're taking advantage of during that during that window. You know, most of our schools have an hourlong lunch. Some of them might be going for some interventions, etc. They might be doing some directed study with a with a with a with a teacher. Um, but I I can't visualize that the legislature intended based on the common understanding of instructional time that it was for sure 100% all the time this school day. um that's not the common understanding of instructional time. Otherwise, they would have said during

128the school day. So, with that, I I do think that that there there is that nuance there that we need to think about. If we and if you all vote for this to be during the school day, I do want to refer you back to one of the first things Dana said that to me is a two reading policy. Um I think we owe it to our community to at the least have that discussion over the course of two readings. So keep that in mind. Right. So realistically, just to piggyback off of that and that and given our conversation earlier today about budget, our calendar may change, but as of right now, two readings would be one in June, one in August based upon our current calendar. Obviously, if we have a special call meeting

129for other purposes, that may not be the case. So, just I I will agree um based on the the changes that I've written down, this is not appropriate to be a a first and final, but they are all changes that are not incon they are they are doable. they are consist, you know, we're not doing anything that isn't consistent with um what y'all are allowed to do. Miss Clemens has a comment on the phone. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so, I just been kind of taking some notes and um I have a couple questions. So basically if if we don't do bellto bell we we wouldn't be able to change this until the following school year. Is that correct? So what we what we start with in August I would think that we would keep

130the entire school year. I'm going to answer that and invite the team as well. Um not necessarily and Dana fill in on this. The two reading policy is our policy. Um, so there's you said can't I just I I want to just make sure we're as clear as we can. You you do have the power to suspend your policy. So I would I would argue from the chief executive's seat. It's not that you can't, but I would advise that you shouldn't because of the commitment we've made through policy. Um, so Dana, you want to add to that? Sure. And so, um, another piece of your question, um, would it have to be next school year? I don't know that it would have to be if it was changed, you know, later on. I know at

131the policy meeting there was some discussion of changing it in January, um, at the semester. I I think that that is um while it is obviously cleanest to do it before school starts that doesn't I don't think that if we don't do that I don't think there's anything that makes it where you can't change it if ask Dr. web to add to that. Just kind of visualize from an implementation perspective at the at the high school level as best you can the practical impact of of her question. The practical impact we would we'll just have to do additional planning um of how we would address that. Um, we did have some preliminary conversations about how we would address it, but we would just need to continue to meet this summer if we had a an

132August implementation of of none at all during the school day, just the logistics of expectations for teachers. Anytime that we have an expectation that something there's a rule, you know, that our our teachers feel the obligation to enforce it. And so, we want to make sure we set our students and our teachers up for success and have a plan that is they're able to implement. Um, and that just takes time. You know, the summer is a time where we're planning for a lot of things. So, we didn't spend time on too many hypotheticals. I wanted to collect their feedback and not spend time planning for something that may not happen, but get their phil philosophical feedback so that we could guide you guys as well as we could on how you make this decision. But

133uh we will need some time to uh to plan for implementation so that it rolls off. Anytime we have any kind of rule change, how you start with kids is important. Even in your own home, if you start with a rule change and you're and students know immediately you're not able to enforce it. Um that sets the stage, that sets the tone. So when we change something as as significant as this and we're trying to change a behavior, we want to make sure that we set ourselves up for a successful implementation and not set up that students know that we're not able to enforce something that we're saying. So that would that would be my my feedback and generally speaking and um I don't see an issue for us if we do this in stages

134and have one one stage and the conversation continues and then we come back and tighten it up at a later time necessarily. But I do have a concern if if we we we create something and we aren't able to enforce it immediately, the long-term effects of reeling that back in. I don't know if that answers you enough, but um we have we have some really great leaders and teachers. We'll figure it out, but um it'll take a little time, right? Takes some time to plan and to make sure that we do it effectively and fairly. Miss Clemens, I hope you adhere all that. I I do want to add one. It's a little difficult, but I'm trying. I've got it glued to my ear. I think I I've been doing a little research on my

135own um just and what I've found just not just locally at at I've I've found just across the nation and a and um and even like at public and private um the higher achieving school districts move have stepped away from cell phone use during the day. I know that even my my children are mostly older um and even when they were younger and would go to like church retreats and there was like a no cell phone policy. They would just leave them with me. The kids had they were they were all together in the same boat and so no one was on their phones. they were all interacting and that they they walked away from that experience with just this was a wonderful experience because we were unplugged and we were together. And um I

136even talked to one school um luckily that checked out like activities during lunches so that the kids could play games and do things and they were off their phones and they were engaging. I think that's a lifelong skill skill for the kids to have. So, I'm still like I'm not complete with my my my data dive and my research of what other high achieving school districts are doing, but I'm finding that this is a growing trend that people are step, you know, having the kids step away from their phones. There's always landlines at school um and and ways for the kids to check in if they need to. I I just um I I just continue just from my own children's experience when they've put their phones down for, you know, a full day or,

137you know, for a weekend, they've been thankful for it. And and I think it's just if it's uniformly applied to all the kids, it it will be, you know, it it will it will be helpful. So just my thoughts on that. I did just want to add a little clarity to um something part of Donna's question. So in board policy 1.6000 there is a procedure for expedited action um and we typically use this when it's housekeeping or clerical. are editorial changes, but our policy does say on matters of unusual urgency by an affirmative vote by the majority of the members of the board, the board may wave second reading and take immediate action to adopt new or revised policies. So that is in your toolbox if that is the will of the board um with

138this policy. So Mr. Chair, I I guess I would be I I would be in favor of um of a second reading if we if it was if it was possible to um to do that that special meeting on the day that we in July when we could when we have a when we have our strategic retreat. Um, that would give us a month to get some feedback from from both staff and the and the technology committee. Um, let them mle over some of the things. Then we'd have we'd have a little bit more u information to go by on um because and I really I really think that this is going to um this is going to be a distraction. Um it it's going to it's going to be impactful. It's going to be

139it's going to be a change. No doubt. I I think this is going to be a change regardless. And so if we if we make this change and then we um and then we we talk about another change for another like this is it's going to consume um it's going to consume more time and energy than I think it's um is worth it. And I and I think we could avoid that by I mean Jason and I talked about ripping off the band-aid. Um, it's a it's a perfect analogy because it I mean if I don't know but I we can't I can't say that it's definitely in inevitable. Um, but I know this this board has been pretty um pretty focused on um on reducing unneeded technology use and this one's pretty unneeded. So

140um so but if it if it takes I mean that would that would that would allow us to have two readings. um to follow our process. Um we're gonna hopefully have a have a strategic meeting. I know you just talked about moving that into August, but I I would prefer to to move it back into um back into July so that we we do it before school starts. And if we if we did it prior to the 30th and like the the week before or so would be would probably be even even better just to give a give a little bit more time because I think there's there's a lot of PD going on in the um in the week preceding school. The only thing I'd point out is I think I got the sense

141that because no one maybe maybe two people responded on the July 30th request originally that that might not have been a good date for folks. So, um, we'd have to figure out, you know, yet another like we're looking at June now for the special meeting on the budget, like the last week of June for that. We'd be looking at in your situation a July date for that special call meeting just for it wouldn't be for budget. It'd be just for cell phone policy. Well, I guess it would be for I would I would think that I would I would hope that it would be for the for the strategic meeting, too. But, um, if Well, I guess it could be if everybody were available. So, we we've been looking at that at August 14th that

142afternoon. So, we need to get everyone to weigh in on a date in July, which we haven't picked yet. So, we'd have to kind of figure that out. But, I hear you. Um, I think either however we decide we want this policy to look, um, we do need to focus our attention on what Dr. Web was saying was the procedure to make sure that's rolled out right away when school starts. Um when I was talking with Dr. Allen and he came up with some, you know, pretty good scenario. I can't repeat all of his suggestions. Um you know, the first one was a warning and the second time was, you know, some parent involvement and so forth. And so he already just off the top of his head was coming up with some pretty good

143ideas. So, um, I think that's what we, you know, regardless of what this decision is on what it's going to look like, I think that's where the board needs to make those decisions before um before school starts. Have we definitively I mean I guess is there consensus that we on the June that we need to have a second meeting in June for budget? We're not we don't have a consensus for or an appetite for making the budget change before the budget committee or before the county commission meets. Right. So if if that's where we are on that, then we're going to be having a special meeting the last week of June, which technically could be the second reading. This could be added to that agenda if that's the will of the board, but that's only

144given us it doesn't give a ton of time. A week from between readings is what it amounts to. So what are we going to note differently by the second one, right? Maybe we don't need to know anything different. Maybe it's just the the procedure of having the second reading. But then you're saying we could pull the 1.600 card and not you could call it call it a matter of urgency and go ahead and do it one time. I don't know that you should to echo Superintendent Golden. I did want to be clear in answering Miss Clement's question that you can um Okay. Did you have something? Yeah. I'm sorry. So, um, we're seven weeks away from basically school starting and my concern is while I'm I agree with the research trying to make that big

145of a change in high school, I think we're going to have a lot of resistance, not only from the kids, but from parents and community. Um, I liked the idea of what Josh said of like doing the like the bare minimum and then letting the committee uh and getting community input on uh changing it. And then if we do the second reading in July, then that puts us days before school starts. And trying to implement all that in a system this large, I mean, that's going to be pretty difficult. So, did you have something elsewhere? No. I mean, I was just going to say mid July meeting makes more sense than end of July if we could find a date that worked for people for that. Yeah, I had I mean, yeah, it does. Um,

146I'm just sitting here thinking through kind of on the fly here the the difficulty of calendars in the summer for, you know, match finding dates that work for a majority of people. Um, well, and that's another like how do we really get ahead of all the communication if we go complete no cell phones and particularly I mean high school's going to be the biggest. I mean, and I I'm guilty of this. I'll be texting my son when he's at lunch or because I'll say, "Hey, sorry I can't d or where you at this afternoon and I mean I just really have concerns about that for our families. Maybe we give this year or maybe even a semester like you said to let the technology committee get some input and then we can make uh do

147like the campaign that we learned about from that one school and do a big campaign so that when we do start it I mean it's it starts and yeah I like that we're leaving it pretty much what middle school's already doing and then kind of leave it with what high school's doing it for now and then let that committee make the changes. That's what I would recommend. The problem The problem is is is that we're we're already having to address a lot of issues between now and the and the beginning of school. This isn't this isn't necessarily business as usual for for high school. Um and so we're already we're already going to have to we're we're going to have to do the rollout plan. um as and and so now we're right now we're

148having to create two rollout plans. We're having to create one for K through 8 and one for how to how to deal with high schools that can that can no longer take their phones out in class or between class, but they can take it out during lunchtime, which might be extended and it's going to look a little a little bit it's not just it's not just going to it's not just like it's not just their they can use them in the lunchroom. Um their lunches everywhere. um and for an hour and so and and lunch goes on for two and a half hours for you know for start and stop. I mean it it's not it's not simple um what we're doing based on this let's call it the minimum policy. Um so it's not

149just that there's going to there's there's going to be there's going to be push back. There's going to be parent resistance right now. And so, um, I I I just think we I think we could spend the summer, um, addressing all of those all those concerns and have a second reading. But in some ways what you're saying argues for in my mind you need more time if it is going to be such a shock to the system and we're going to need to have those rollout plans and that communication and getting getting the staff and the buildings acclimated to this. it needs more time. And if we're not making a final decision until mid July or or late July, then we're that much closer to school starting and that much less time to actually roll

150it out. So that's a that's a fear I have. Um so that's fine. Let's invoke the 1.60 and make the decision on Monday and then we got plenty of time. Yeah. I'll share a couple of thoughts and then uh um uh Dr. Royer I think wants to speak a little bit to the elementary schools as well. Uh we we use the word inevitable a couple of times and and Mr. Galler kind of shared where where my thinking is. I think it I think that we are almost for sure headed towards some version of that. Uh how we get there is very important. Uh and my experience with our community is they need communication. Um what I have seen from other communities is they need communication as well. And and I I appreciate what you're saying

151and you and I had this discussion about the rip the band-aid off. Um there's there's the potential and well not just the potential it will happen. There will be some struggles no matter what you do. Uh but but where I'm at right now is we need to make sure that we get our parents involved in this decision if we're going to go beyond uh the law. And Dr. Webb spoke to some of the internal things. I'm speaking to the community. Uh this isn't 100% true. Um and maybe it's just theoretically true, but Dr. Johnson spoke to it a little bit in her personal experience. parents at least theoretically have the capacity now to limit their children's access. Now the reality the reality is different from theory right because when a when their child's off somewhere

152uh absent then creating some some uh some mechanism with apps to control it they can't but our reality is not very many do I think it's important for us to find out from parents and what is the need during the day can we address those needs in how we roll this out Dr. Dr. Webb gave a couple of examples. Uh if if if they're communicating with their employer, uh my where I'm at right now is I think we need to get our community involved in how we get there. We started that with the with the with the committee. Uh and I want to share one other truism before I turn it over to Dr. Royer. And uh it's a Carol Birdongism, maybe more than a truism. Our parents are disengaged during the summer. uh and

153and so I worry about creating something like that. Uh it's just it it's something to consider. Final piece before I give it Dr. Webb said we'll do whatever whatever you guys implement and we will we'll implement it. But but every my professional experience and observation is how we roll this out is going to have a big impact on how well it works in our community and fast in this case is probably not great. Dr. lawyer. If you wait long enough to speak in a conversation, sometimes everything you want to say gets said and Jason just did said a lot of what I was going to say. From the elementary perspective, and I know we are talking about high school, sometimes I do like to let secondary have all the fun, but when we gathered feedback

154from our elementary principles, it really was about the community. Our parents are using this with our elementary students. Our elementary students are getting up and going to the bathroom in their cubby spaces and going to their phones or communicating with parents on watches. We haven't really talked as much about the wearable technology aside from the the earbuds. That's going to be the key component for us in elementary, the watches and then um we've talked a bit. I know Drayson talked about the tracking or you know being able to keep status. I think parents will express that concern in a much greater level even though I do it with my older kids about our elementary students. And so I I fear if we the the rush um will take some of our parents off guard at

155the elementary level when I think that ultimately they agree. I think that we we are in a space that people are paying way more attention to the screens to even if it's the wearable screens. Um, but that was a concern that came up at the elementary level is is really our our parents are the ones using it during the school day to keep with or stay connected to um our elementary students. So, I just wanted to chime in about that piece. again our folks um at the elementary level were were excited by this conversation and feel like there's definitely a need for us to be doing it but the roll out for us on our side will be challenges with the adults whereas in the secondary they may experience the challenges with the kids so

156I just wanted to chime in and share that perspective any other thoughts or feedback back. It would seem like maybe to address some of those things like in and we kind of touched on this earlier, but instead of the turn off and stored, maybe we would be like silence and stored. I think you have to have the stored language in there just so it's whether that's a backpack or it's a locker or whatever it is. But I think the the implication that's like not on your person when it comes to the like watches and wearable technology. I think that would have to fall under all of this, wouldn't it? No matter what. I mean, even at the floor level, that's not going to be allowed. Um, not in any sort of classroom setting. So and

157if you look at the def statutory definition, it talks about communication device that communication between two parties. So yeah. Yeah, that's watches and all of that. So I think that's kind of dealt with. But I mean I get I personally I get both kind of sides of the argument like doing it now K through 12 for the school day. I would argue for silenced and stored. Um, but I also to address Mr. Welch's point, I think too with the that caveat of point two there authorized by a teacher for educational purposes, the language there, like maybe that's open for interpretation and that's something that could be communicated by the team, I don't know, Dr. web or or whatever to them that like our our intent behind that cuz I think that's a legitimate concern and

158and totally understand that makes sense to me. I think there could be a caveat for that. Um but I also am like you're between a rock and a hard place like we need to have it done now but then we don't really want to do what we want to do now necessarily. And then like communication with the community, you know, I mean, I think there'd be plenty of time for communication if we did it now, but that's not eliciting a lot of feedback, I suppose, on that. But what kind of feedback, you know, is going to change it necessarily? Like I mean, because it at some level they just talk it, well, but my kid needs, you know, their watch. Well, my kid needs this, my kid needs that. So, I I don't know that

159the overall majority of those concerns or or communications from parents would do anything to like take us back from what the law is going to allow. So, um I guess if you were asking me personally, I'd be in favor of the K through 12 during the school day silenced and stored with a caveat for point two there. That's kind of where I would think. But so I I I'm at the same spot you are for the most part with it. I seeing both sides of it. And I think by and large we're probably all in agreement except, you know, on on the very margins. None of us really thinks, you know, well, gosh darn it, those kids, they need to be Instagramming during math class. Um no, you know, they they don't do that. and

160um uh spent some time in uh Japan earlier this year and it was a great experience. But one thing I noticed is boy if you think we got a problem here it is it is this over there and and nonstop and you know we certainly don't want to get there um with it. Um, the one thing that that gives me pause is, you know, not knowing what we don't know. And I just feel like this is a big change. Uh, you know, because all the things that we're trying to avoid, we we want to avoid. Again, we're we're on that. But, you know, we're at a different time with when we were kids and in school and I well, you got through school without him. But, you know, it's it the world has changed and

161I certainly couldn't do my job without looking at my phone a lot today legitimately for, you know, all all kinds of tools and things I use and how are our kids using it. So, going back and forth that I guess where where I've sort of boiled down to is is it that big a deal for us to go to 100% immediately versus going to 90% immediately. Taking a little bit extra time to evaluate all the implications and then getting that extra 10% or that extra five or nine or whatever it is when we sort of learn and say, "Okay, you know, these are legitimate usages." That's that's sort of where I'm pause at is not the you know well the kids need to be in communication with their parents during the school day. They don't

162you know when I coached wrestling or soccer or something like that would drive me nuts. Parents coaching from the sidelines you know no they need to focus on the map. No they need to focus on the lecture and their work and everything. They don't need to hear what do they want from whatever for dinner tonight uh right now. Do that later. So again, we're all on board with that. But, and it's not a hill I'm gonna die on or worry about, but but I do think that let's go fast, but let's not go all the way immediately. Let's pause just short a little bit. And I think kind of that's more of what this is doing right now is it's pausing just short a little bit. You know, it's talking about the 9 through 12

163only, the uh the K through eight. It seems we're all in compliance with the or in agreement more with the, you know, lock it down. That's already what we're doing right now. But I I I just think that last little bit, let's pause a little bit on there and give ourselves the wiggle room to make those final adjustments rather than going all the way there realizing, well, there's some things that we need to do, and then backing off at at that point. That that seems more of a a harder ask to go from zero to 100 and then back to 97. Then just going from zero to 90 and then to 97 if that makes sense. Like for lunches likely, but for the high school lunch period. Yeah, I I I probably would and and

164you know, and I I don't disagree that with a lot of things like you know, they again they don't need to be Instagramming during lunch. they they don't need to and that's a lot of what they'll do and it's a waste of time but they're doing it right now and it's not the end of the the world. it's, you know, if we can pull it out of the classroom, we can focus. And party muscle goes, you know what? I have to do it during their personal time also. So what, you know, it's it's it's their personal time. Do whatever the hell they want there. Um, as long as it's not, you know, yeah, obviously those things. So, I guess I don't disagree with any of that. I think we're all kind of around the edges,

165but what would what about a potential um pass this policy with with hopefully a couple of changes? Hopefully we we can differentiate. I mean, I think we I think we do need to take off the the turnoff. I think that's going to be a really big issue. Um but second reading like I I think the I think the compromise position here might be let's make a decision quickly and set a a future set a future start date for for the second half of this policy which presumably would be would be K through 12. um for the school day um to give us time. But I think the sooner we make that decision, the more time we have for for feedback, communication, and the feedback to to Tony's point is not really what do you think?

166Do you think we should do this? It's what are the concerns that you have? Because the communication plan is all about is all about addressing those concerns. Most of them are predictable. I think we could I think we could nail them in 20 minutes if we sat down and just wrote out a list. There might be a couple that were that were that we're going to try to figure out. We got to figure out okay well how how does a student get in get in touch with their parent if in the you know in the case of a non-emergency but if they they just want to get in touch with them. How does a parent get in touch with a student for those things? We we know the emergency things, but we're talking of what

167we're going to hear back is the is the urgent things that we that we want to tell our kids, but and they want to tell us. Um, but so I don't know. What do y'all What do y'all think about about making a decision quickly and setting, you know, let's after the first quarter, like right right after fall break, you come back and we're and we're going to make a decision. That gives us that gives us 12 weeks between now and then. But if we po if we pose the question to staff Jason and your team about the the um process or how that would actually look in practice. So we if we pass this on first reading tonight basically as written with maybe a couple of wording changes but the but the intent of it

168being that it's in high school it's allowing it for lunch and no other time basically and that's what we start the school year with and that's what's communicated out to everyone starting as soon as you want to start it right. Um and then at some date certain we're coming back for a second reading. There's no requirement second reading be the next meeting, right? It can be whenever we want, right? [Music] You're making me think. Um, we've done that before. We've had second meeting that's not followed. We have we've pulled I think the difference is to your point Eric in this particular case. Let let me help you. Maybe maybe if we have it on the agenda and we and they move to defer it, that gets us where we want to go. I still I

169still would want I still would want to vote. I I think we can. There's nothing in the policy that would prohibit us from doing this. I just don't think that we've done it like this before. We've pulled a first and either not had a policy or kept the current policy. I can't remember when it's been a new policy and then our second reading. I'm So, okay. Well, here's here's a different way to skin the cat. So, if we if we do what's on this what's written here, Sure. that can be done with first and final. Yes. And I think I know with the tweaks with the changes that everybody's wanting. Yes. It would still just be first and final. Eligible for that. Comfortable with that. So, we could to your point if we do first

170and final then we've adopted the policy. But the intent of the board could be that we're going to come back in August or September board meeting and revisit it with the goal of adding something to it if the board if that's the will of the board and by then having potentially some feedback from the committee that would help inform whether that's the decision we want to make or not. Is that am I fairly stating that? Yeah, I guess I would I would still if we're if we end up having a if we end up having a special meeting in if we end up having a a meeting in July like I would for for the uh strategic meeting. I my my point was was to make that make make this decision as quickly as possible

171to give as much time for um for that communication roll out. That's all I So the and and I don't think Dan I think what we had talked about if we if we did this so we make this first and final but a but an ultimate decision on on a on an addition to this policy I think could happen as a second reading of this so as a second reading and not take two more readings necessarily. I think it could be a second first and final slashsec reading with a caveat of what changes I so I don't want to I don't want to put that in stone but yes I I think we have that option now if the feedback you want to completely rewrite the policy we'll talk about that at the time but

172if it's what I think we all anticipate the change to be absolutely We can and and I'm fine if we want to go ahead and make the decision that this policy you vote on it in June and then it's revisited in August, September, whatever. I'm fine with putting it on whatever policy, you know, date and going ahead and deciding that if there's not a July special call. I'm of the opinion that that meets the spirit of why we have two reasons. you know, give time to think about it, give give time for the community to know what's being discussed. So, for me, again, the issue is not going fast. It's it's I'm fine with even if we pass this in the first reading as as is, and that's the policy going forward. If we want

173to do it in two, I'm fine with that. It's it's not anything. I'm just saying as this is right now, this is this is a substantial change. Um, and I think it's a good substantial change, but talking about, you know, we're going to pass it and then we're going to make additional changes in August or September. Let's pass it and make the substantial changes and then that that it is now and then revisit it after the school year. Let's actually see how it impacts. We're six months through that last piece that we're talking about. Again, you know, if if we're going to go 90% of the way there, can we really not live with not having that last 10% for one year? It's it's been nothing all the way since. It also seems to me

174to address one of the biggest concerns is is policing it um for our our teachers. And so it gives them the chance to do the policing in the classroom to start and then if and when we decide we want to expand that then they can focus just policing it on the non-instructional times or what have you. Um, you know, just give ourselves and our staff and our teachers just a little wiggle room for any unintentional errors that that we make and then go ahead and and always add more but not have to pull back and correct. Again, my two cents. Lee and Julie, can you speak to the the way it would look from your perspective if this got implemented the way it's written now? When would you start and how would and how would

175you communicate this to your teams? And then if there were to be a change, say following the first nine weeks, hypothetically, that that took it all the way. um or if that change were made sometime later, semester or or school year. I mean, talk about the phase in approach to that and how that either is feasible or not feasible from your perspective or disruptive. I think the question is not the feasibility but the disruptiveness. I think the way you switched at the end makes a lot of sense. the if if we were to pass it straight away the way that it is right now, we would begin well for for both of us, we would continue that communication, right? Because our principles know this is happening and it's coming. So, the first steps we would

176take is pull together a group of administrators to talk about the consequences or what's called the penalties here. Um we we will expect uniformity across all 30 of our elementary schools specific to the devices and not just the implementation of the policy but what the consequences are. So that would be our first step and then um begin sharing and g gathering that feedback via email because we won't all be together until July. Um, and then in July when we're together with our principles and assistant principles together, rolling it out, working through the kinks, talking through some scenarios of what we're going to do to to enforce those consequences that we come up with. The same thing would happen if we decided to do something where we changed the policy. if we started with one thing

177in August and then moved into maybe something in December or even some pilots, a couple of pilot schools um where we did this and then let them go through all the challenges and and work through all the kinks and then even extend that further to the following year. So it but it would still be the same. We would still gather the people whatever we implement, whatever the will of the board is to implement. We're going to gather folks to figure out what the penalties are, consequences. Again, we don't really say penalties, but what the consequences are um and talk through scenarios and how people are going to do it. And and the only other thing I'd add is that we would probably have those it would be a standing agenda item. So, we would talk

178about how the implementation was going consistently um throughout the year. I think another thing that that whatever this is, I think we'll ask all of our elementary administrators to communicate with their families during the summer. To Mr. Golden's point, Carol reminds us often that people are are not present in our community in the summer. And so, um, a lot of principles do not consistently send their weekly newsletters, but we would begin to to share this information, um, individually from the school principal rather than rely on just in focus. So we'd begin that communication pretty quickly so that people knew what to expect. Dr. Web, it's a great explanation. Our our process would be similar in collecting feedback along the way. Communication and I think a key element of the communication is the why behind it

179um for our community, for our students, uh for our teachers, for everyone. And um we've had late implementations uh for different things for various reasons over the years. They're a little bit more um you know a little diff more more difficult to implement but nothing to overcome uh that we couldn't overcome. Um second semester changes um are are pretty frequent. We have natural uh transition points at the start of each semester at the high school level because this is the significant change. Let's be honest for us in secondary is high school. Middle school there isn't really a significant change. Um we do a natural reteing at the beginning of each semester anyway. uh sometimes the beginning of a quarter. Uh so I don't have concerns um about a change. I would I'm of the mentality

180I would rather go slow and get it right than to go fast and have problems. And so I think most of our administrators would be in line with that. Any any thoughts about the family communication um plan for even if it's just what's on the screen? We we're definitely going to send some messages out uh to families. We haven't worked on the detail of that yet. Uh and uh what we find is it's going to take multiple methods of communication and even then we won't catch everybody. So we'll send emails out. Sometimes we'll send a text out and say there's an email about a important change or something like that. principles will communicate this whatever wherever you guys land at the orientation times uh with with students and they always have those conversations. So we'll

181hit multiple targets with it as we typically do with communication plans uh and and and the content is going to depend on where you all land, right? Uh and so if it if if if we do if it does become immediate, we'll let them know that. Uh I'm not terribly concerned about our process for communication. Uh but we but because we are going to spend the time to put it together uh the the timing of it and making sure that we and one of you mentioned this and um uh what are your concerns? Jay, I think you mentioned that Tony you spoke to this briefly as well. I do want to I do want to and I know this wasn't your question, but I want to make sure that we get we give parents an

182opportunity to share with us, not just us sharing with them. Uh and and how that looks is going to depend on how you all vote and and when when it's implemented. I'm going to restate. I've become convinced that this in the long run is going to be good for our students somehow someway. Uh The question again is how do we get there? So, may I ask a question? Sorry, Dan. I'll be quick. Um, if it ended up that it was the will of the board to do to vote in a true away for the day policy in my readings looking at different how different school districts implemented similar policies, some of them um had a grace period. And so I wanted to see whether there would be an opportunity for that if we voted in,

183you know, a true away for the day, but then gave the first semester of a grace period to iron out all the kinks. Let the administration figure out what worked best. Sharing those, you know, best practices, etc., etc., and then and and and sharing data with parents and kids on why we're doing this. Here's what the data shows. Here's how your brain is changing. Your developing brain is changing when you're using your phone. Yeah. And setting the expectation that when you come back to school in January, that's when enforcement happens. I just off the cuff, we haven't spoken as a team, but philosophically, I like that idea. Uh could you guys speak to that? We we'll definitely talk about it as a team. I think it's absolutely an idea to consider. Same Josh. um by

184voting on this we satisfy the state. Correct. That's that's one point. The other point is is about shutting the uh devices down. I think that will hit a nerve with parents. I think that the the 360 communication and stuff where they can just look on their phone, they can see that the child's in the classroom or whatever. So why can't we change that that one line uh that uh we're concerned with there about not shutting them store them during school day but they can be left on on silent mode or whatever. So Mr. cash up to your to your question. Um, I've already done a little bit of tweaking in anticipation of Monday night um and removed going to line through the are turned off and stored and put the language not used during the

185school day. I'm going to do that for K8 and 9 through 12. And then um I also removed under penalties which I've now renamed consequences uh removing the improper storage piece since that's you know we're going to right we're going to allow them to possess them um and they can be on. It's going to be monitoring whether or not they're using them. So, okay. So, that would be for Monday night. And I believe you mentioned this, but why can't we pass this as first reading final uh with a notation on there that this will be revisited at X amount a month. And that'll give time for feedback for the instructional committee to give their recommendations. It'll give the uh principles some more time. And I I I agree with Claire on this also. Uh but

186we're going back and forth here. Back and forth. And we got to finish this policy as it is to vote on it for a final. Yeah. Everything you just said I agree with with the one with the one exception being that I don't think we would put in the policy language that says it would be revisited. I think we would just for the record state tonight that we would we plan to revisit it at a certain point. Well, that but But we can revisit it. We went through this. Yeah. So, I mean, that would just to me be security that we can go back and do it. But that that's fine. What's We'll state that that's our intention to do that and then hold ourselves to it. But I don't think we'd write that in

187the policy per se. Okay. All right. That's fine. Uh the only other thing Dana besides everything you just mentioned uh is what Jay alluded to earlier line 24 changing that from saying for the duration of the instructional time to changing sorry I also changed that to school day. I failed to mention that. Yes, that would be the other change. Okay. So, with the changes she just recited, um, if that clean copy comes to us Monday night for a vote first and final, are we is there consensus that we're good to do that and move on and then with our stated intention of revisiting this in a in a few months time after we've had um more feedback from the committee and um potentially more thought among us as a board? Yes. I just ask for

188Dana and Bobby to to help come up with some language on the on the actual motion. I I'd like to I'd like to just clarify that this is this is first and final for for means to address the um to address the the urgency of getting a policy in place. But but the second second reading will follow potentially like if the second reading will follow and it'll be a second reading like not a not a new first reading. Well, I don't I don't really know if we need to do that because if we do first and final it's it's our policy and so then we would just it would just then require somebody bringing a new an amendment to the policy back up like we would any other policy. But based on our policy, that

189would take two readings from then. I I just I just want to I Well, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but if we if going from what we have now to restricting use except for lunch is eligible for a first and final, then potentially moving from lunch to to away for the day entirely would also have to be eligible for first and final. Correct. So here, so really if we if that was the change we were going to make and it's really the only change remaining to make if we did this, it would only take first and final. If I may, Mr. Chair, to address the the two or three times Dr. Royer made the comments, can can we change penalties to uh clearly you were not listening. I have I have changed that.

190I'm sorry. I I did I missed that. I can't get the work done without it. Sorry about that. All right. So, we are good with Is there clear understanding of what our plan is for Monday night? And if I may, Mr. Chair, one extra piece. You mentioned uh um Bobby Cook. He's actually out of town. We're going to have another attorney from Berser Mosley Carson here and so is Miss Osbrooks. So, anything you need on this policy or the other ones we're getting ready to talk about in the next 10 minutes, hit me tomorrow. So, I understand, you know, what's being proposed. I like my proposal better. So, I'm just I've been pretty consistent about where I stand on this and I would prefer that we vote in a true away for the day and

191then do a slow roll implementation and take that first semester to message to parents and the community and students and then have a hard implementation in January. That would be my strong preference. To that point, Mr. Chair, it's probably wise for uh each of you to if if you have a particular motion in mind, let's do a double check and make sure that you're prepared for that motion on Monday. Yeah. If you if you intend to bring up something other than what Dana just recited, then just give a heads up so that we can have it in writing so that we can read it. We can read it verbatim. Sorry, just to beat the source. Sorry. Is there any is there any value or is it needed to say I know Danny, you're going to

192switch it to not used. You said correct. Is there any value to having silenced and not used or is that just kind of a given or implied or And you said silenced and stored that those are some judge. Yeah, but I'm fine with not used, you know, versus stored. I just wonder if there's any value to that they're silenced. I don't know. So, I stuck with the not used because about three hours ago when we started this discussion, you y'all wanted it to track the language of the pop of the law, which it does. Um, and we are saying that they can possess them. You know, they can have them on their person, which I think is important because of the the tracking. Um, as long as they're not used. I I don't mind adding

193silence. I I that doesn't I kind of like it. I would just for teacher silenced and not silenced and not you know just good. Thanks thanks for your indulgence. Appreciate it. Yeah. All right. Anything else on that? Okay. [Laughter] Hey Jason, it only took two hours. I thought I said three. So I mean we're You think that discussion took two hours? Really? Did it really? It absolutely took two hours. Wow. 66%. That's not bad. You know what? That was a good discussion. It was important. All right. So remember we we pulled um two policies for second reading off consent. That now is our next item F. Um and the first one is 4.601 on second reading. Um I'm not putting you on the spot, Tanya, but you you did request them to be pulled. So

194do you do you have thoughts about that one first? 4.601. Yes. Um, I I've struggled with this policy. Um, okay, I got to change change gears here, right? Yeah. So, I've struggled with this policy from the beginning. I've always uh liked the idea or I asked my my kids the the other day um they graduated between 2010 and 2015. I says, "Did you guys get your um tests back and quizzes?" and they all said yes and my oldest daughter says yes and I believe that I got to keep most of them. Um the other ones didn't really recall. Um and I think that's that's really important that the kids have an opportunity to see where um they've made their mistakes where they need to um you know maybe study more on depending on the topic

195for the final exams. And I don't have a preference if the students keep them or if they look at them and then the teacher returns them. Um I'd like to see discussion in the classroom if if it's appropriate on um on that kind of thing. But I do have a problem with the um the retesting and um reassessment part in that um I think that should be the it should be the exception and not the norm. Um and I feel like that's leading to you know when we have um you know like they they will provide specific feedback and stuff. So my I guess basically my recommendation is that we completely eliminate um on page one lines 25 through 28 and also um on the second page lines one through 8 and just make it

196um so that the student so it's it's you know kind of changing it quite a bit but um that's where I'm at on it. All right. Thank you. Any discussion? I have I have similar concerns and I think part of that driving it too is is also worry about it creating a culture uh for the subset of our students, not all of them, but um I I don't have to give it my all for this exam because I'll just retest and I'll I'll get there. Um, and I I I do worry about that being an unintended consequence of it that, you know, I I can make it up later. Um, and there will be a subset that we'll look at that and and that'll be the implication of it. Uh, not only that, but just

197creating that that culture. It's, you know, when they get out of school and, you know, the big boy and big girl world, sometimes there's there's not second chances. You, this is the test. This is the the presentation to your your boss. This is the justification. This is the, you know, trying to pass the bar, trying to get certification for whatever it is. Um so mandating that a little bit heavier uh it it it it gives me concern uh by making that required as as opposed to where we are now where teachers have the flexibility and I think they have the goodwill when they see that you know the chunk of students just hasn't gotten it um that there is additional requirement maybe that they do provide that by and large. So I'm in agreement with

198you. So if I could I guess as just want to be clear and I'll get Dr. Webb to um to to clarify since Dr. Allen's not here, but um this this started as a as a re as a test correction retesting policy. it evolved into into this which is effectively what the teachers are supposed to be doing now as part of their um PLC process. Um, and so the the problem that that I was trying to solve here is the the very narrow opportunity that some schools were were providing even as it relates to IEPs and they were limiting these the the reassessment reting process. um in such a way that it didn't allow for um it didn't allow for a lot of these things to happen. It was basically if you the only the

199only IEP accommodation is we're going to allow you this and and this is the way it's going to it's going to happen. it was le it it it took out all of the um all the flexibility for the IEP team um or even for um for teachers in some extent because there were school policies that says we we don't we don't do this for anybody and and if we do do it for some for if we do do it in the limited exception for IEPS and this is how it's going to do. So this was more of a I mean this is very flexible. Um I guess Dr. Web, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how this how how this looks compared to what your expectation is already of of the teachers and how

200they're supposed to be teaching. Thank you for the question. So, I agree with the conversation that um Mr. Galbbert, this is alluding to with Dr. Allen in regards to what our expectations are. Our expectations are that once we teach something and a student doesn't learn it the first time that we don't move forward and um neglect the opportunity to get the student to learn the essential content. And so we call that question three. You know, what do you do when the students don't learn? It's part of our language. It's part of our process. We challenge our curriculum teams and that's groups of teachers in the same building that see teach the same uh subject and and grade level. We challenge them to figure out collectively what are the best practices to help students learn the

201content they don't learn in their first attempt. This uh and every every school and every team is a different in a different place but they're all working together to ensure that we have opportunities for students to master the essential content. um we're still moving forward as a class because we we have to move forward but having opportunities for students to go back get exposed to that content again. Um so philosophically this is where we are and where we're headed. There are some teams that are well ahead of others within the same building across the district but this is the aim of where we're headed. And it could be as simplistic as we look at our data as a curriculum team and we determine, wow, there are two standards that our students really didn't master. So,

202let's start retaching those during a bell ringer or during our core content and then have some additional questions on our next assessment to see if the students are learning it and then try again. Or it could be that there are only three students in class who are not learning it. And so, let's figure out how we're going to get them to intervention so that we can retach them. And maybe that reassessment is verbal during that that session of intervention. Um or maybe it's more formal um and it's associated with their grade in some form or fashion. But we really want to give the autonomy to the teaching teams because it looks different if I'm teaching AP physics or if I'm teaching um sixth grade math. It looks it may look a little bit different if

203I'm teaching ELA at the eighth grade level. So we believe in autonomy for our teaching teams. Um, but we also believe that if a student doesn't learn something the first time that we continue to try to get those essential uh standards mastered um before um before the end of the the semester or the end of the school year. Now the work becomes what are that team has to determine what are those essential standards um what are those pieces that are needed for every student to understand before they move on to the next grade level. Um but that is the the essence of our work. Um as I shared at the policy meeting, this is our work whether it's in a policy or not. Um we understood Mr. Galbreth's perspective of wanting to put something like

204this in policy. But we feel we feel confident in the work that's taken place whether it's in a policy or it isn't. That's that was a key point that I was just about to ask you as far as if we don't put this in a policy, this is our practice. And so the so the point with having it in the policy is so that it's visible to to parents and students and not just in a SOP somewhere where they have to learn about it in some other way like it's this is this is this is what we're going to do even if we don't put it in the policy. If I may add a little bit to that and Dr. Webb fill in. Um this was this was prompted in part by a comment Mr.

205Welch made just a minute ago where you said the implication of retesting uh and a conversation I had with one of our teachers about the implication of this language and and um and the the as I understood it one of the concerns is might a parent read this and say you have to retest and my child's going to get another grade etc. And my answer to that is we still want teachers to have that broad discretion, that that broad autonomy to decide what that reassessment means. And Dr. Webb spoke to that in some detail, but I felt like it was worth emphasizing. Um, and my response to that was in essence because we know the practice, I don't I'm not worried about that. Um, but I get that concern from a from a from a

206teacher that it that it may it may it may seem like it means more than that. And so I think it's important for us to speak to that. We are not mandating. And by the way, the this the first policy draft actually included regrading even, right? Uh and so this is this is very far from that. So Dr. Web, can you speak to that and what this language uh this language means just so there's some clarity on that? Yes, I I echo um what you just stated and just refer back to my my prior statement. So, it could mean a a a curriculum team could determine that there is some more widespread reassessment and regrading that takes place, but this policy doesn't um require that. Um if there's a feeling of the board that this

207reads too broad and we need to you know add a sense of clarity that of that what it doesn't mean is that everyone is you know reassessing every student on every standard. Um but we can certainly make sure that outside of the policy that our schools are doing um a thorough job of teaching our families and teaching our students what it does mean. In my practical experience, most of our families are not looking at board policies to for interpretation. They're really looking to their school level teams for guidance and tell us what the school year is going to look like and what what is teaching and learning look like in my classroom. They're depending on the teachers to describe those things. So, we have methods of doing that at the school level and at the

208uh teacher classroom level. And so we would ask at at the secondary level that our teach not only our are our principles communicating and reemphasizing that. But really it goes back to the classroom teacher. And so we have that in the policy I believe um where we're asking the teachers to communicate at the beginning of the year what that looks like in their classrooms. So, you said something there that that maybe I can't speak for for Tany, but but you you hit on one my concern maybe maybe it was a misunderstanding on my part, but you use the word regrading. Um, and and that's where I have the issue and and I use the example there's a certain segment of our our kids that sure we go well I can just take it again. There's

209also another segment of our kids on the highest level that we know will use it and go, "Well, I only got a 95. I want to take it again to get that one." Perhaps there's a larger percentage of those there. There is. And that's and that's and we've seen kids who won't take um Tim Sawyer's CAD class because it's only a 4.0 know scale even though they're they're engineering students and it would do a world of good for them or I'm going to take a I'm going to go out for track just so I don't have to take PE because it's not a fourpoint whatever um you know God bless the high achievers and everything else but they will work the system we know uh they will so that's if you're telling me that that's

210there's not a mandatory regrading in there. That alleviates a lot of my concerns. That's that's my biggest issue is I didn't get the score that I wanted I want to retake on it and you have to to give it to me. Sometimes look, you you took the test, you just didn't do well. That's life. U not the portion of you didn't learn. we're just not going to teach you anymore. Great question. Our practice and our recommendation for this policy is um not about a grade, it's about learning. And so we ask our teachers, what do you want students to learn? How do you know that they learned it? And what do you do when they don't? Um and what do you do when they learn it quickly and everyone else has it? How do you

211enhance the the learning and the depth of of their knowledge? But the most important thing is when they don't get it the first time, what do you do when they don't learn it? Because there are essential content aspects of each every core subject that we teach that are essential to the next grade level. And so we want to make sure that those essential things are continued to be discussed to talk talked about taught and reassessed. And many times that is unassociated with a grade. Sometimes it is associated with a grade. But that's where we believe the autonomy belongs with the curriculum team, the individual teachers making those determinations of what's appropriate and what isn't appropriate. As to your point, motivation is is a factor. Um u but we want the teachers to make those decisions.

212We we don't have a recommendation for the at the district level to make that uniform. And let let me add this in a more broad sense. We'll be fine whether or not this language is in the is is in the policy. uh because we want to make sure those teachers have that autonomy. And we spoke to this a little bit at the policy committee meeting. Uh this reflects our practice. Uh if it's the will of the board that you believe the teach that the families need to have that, then we'll then we'll honor that. Um, but one way or the other, it's it's not going to change our practice, making sure teachers have the autonomy, but do go back and implement that third question, making sure that those students have mastered those standards they need

213to master. Um, Dr. Webb and Dr. Royer, have I spoken to that appropriately? You have. And um that's part of our collaborative time that we provide teachers um is to have time to look at their data to know which students learn the content and which they didn't and have conversations collectively about best practices of how to retach it and the best way to do it while still moving forward with the other um you know with the pace of the class and the pacing um so that all students uh continue to progress. And and I can't resist this. I've got to share this. When we talk about professional learning communities or PLC's, those teams are asking these four questions that Dr. Webs alluded to. What do the student students need to learn? What do they need

214to know? And that's when we drill down to the standards. And our teachers are incredible at that, drilling down to the depth of the standard. Question two, how will we know if they know it? How will we know that they learned it? And that's often our common formative assessments where we're asking some specific questions uh to to determine and identify whether the students have shown mastery to the depth they need to master it. What do we do when they don't learn it, which is what Dr. Webb has been spending most of the time on tonight. And then what do we what do we do if they have shown it? And that's that piece that she mentioned briefly about uh advancing students perhaps to some some better depth even than the even than the standard. So

215to address some of the, you know, teacher concerns, you referenced maybe adding a line and we did get an email from a teacher, you weren't included on it, Dr. Webb, so I wanted to share what the changes that were proposed um and to see if it's worthwhile adding. So if we can go scroll to that particular paragraph on teaching and reassessment of learning, I think the most important um addition would be at the very end which was just to add a sentence that said methods should be chosen by the teacher or teaching team and may not necessarily lead to grade changes. So that communicates to those parents who might read policy that you know reassessments aren't going to lead to a different grade. And I would be comfortable adding that. Um, one other piece that

216might make a difference is in line four, let's see, yeah, at the sentence that says teachers should use research-based engagement practices to encourage full effort on initial and then strike and subsequent. So, it would just read teachers should use research-based engagement practices to encourage full effort on initial assessments. So, those were that's what she proposed and I wanted to share it because you weren't included on that email. I think those are rock solid recommendations. Yes, you Dana, you missed it. Yes, we are broadcasting. So, um so the odds of me getting it tomorrow are far better than this evening. Yeah. Is that But my question is is that what what are we doing? like do we want changes? Too bad Robert rules Robert's rules don't apply in a work session but you know good try.

217Uh so I I guess the we we've had two things put on the floor in in terms of changes to the policy and one was what Tanya u laid out at the beginning of the discussion and then one was what Claire just uh described. So, uh, I think my best, uh, direction to us would be that this is on second reading. I don't, if there's consensus for either of those options, then we would be wise, I guess, to go ahead and include that in a draft for Monday. But, uh, I don't know if there is consensus to do that. And I guess um the other option of course is you bring those as amendments to the policy Monday night. Um so I share a lot the same concerns as um Miss Hibma and Mr. Welch

218with just I've had I've struggled with this policy too kind of from the beginning with student motivation to do well the first time the rigging of the system that whether you're on the low end or the high end you know we know they probably would try and do um but I worry a lot too and we've kind of spoken about about the teacher autonomy and I know we spoke uh superintendent gold and I after policy meeting and stuff and I I still have those same concerns and I know we we've talked about kind of the teaching teams and they would kind of come up with their thing. My concern with that is when you've got a teaching team that's kind of at odds on what that best practice should be, you know, well then you

219got to go to someone above them, right, to make the decision. And what's that going to look like? You know, I I would hate to see a high performing teacher that and it's it's just been my experience so far and the ones that I've talked to, they seem like they they don't want to do, you know, this re retaking, retesting, reassessment piece. Um, and then the ones that seem like they they do go for it, you know, they kind of they're at odds on that. I would have loved and I know it probably would be hard. I brought it up at policy with Dr. Allen in this a weird time of year, but I'd love to see any data on teachers that do implement retakes or different sorts of those kind of assessments and things

220versus teachers that don't and what their kind of like scoring models and all of that looks like for how their students progress through the year if we have any of that data. But I I I worry I just really worry that this is going to remove a lot of that teacher autonomy and I worry that the consensus would be automatically or not automatically but would move towards uh more retakes more reassessments which I fear that that's just going to lower the standard at the end of the day and really really impact the teachers autonomies and so I I would be in favor like Miss HMA proposed with at least removing on page two lines one through eight. Um, so that's kind of where I'm at right now. So I I guess I'll just make one

221one final plea and we're we're talking about how students are going to are going to use this to their to their advantage in a in a bad way. Um, and I just want to make sure that we that you recognize the my my reason for doing this was was the students whose whose first assessment didn't accurately reflect how much they knew um for whatever reason. They were they were checked out. They were not motivated necessarily. But um and I've seen the impact of what a what a 15 on a test can do to a to a student's motivation if they have no no way to catch up. I was like they're checked out. They're done. Like and and is this is that really is that really the So first test of the semester I make

222a 15. I know what's the likelihood of me making hundreds on everything else. And so, how do you how do you engage that student to to want to be there after they after they bombed a test? And and and it could it could have been something that was totally their fault or it could have been something completely unavoidable and they're, you know, they had whatever situation was going on that they just weren't present at that test and they didn't do well. Do you wanna you wanna do you want that to impact their how are they going to learn if you can't get them motivated? Yeah, I mean that's a good I mean it's a good point you bring up. I I've been that student throughout my career at times in high school and college. Um

223so um I share that concern, you know, I I think it's legitimate totally. Um, but also gosh, if I was to play the devil's advocate, it's just like sometimes that happens in life. And is there more benefit to creating something to make that up or is there more benefit to working to well here's how you move forward? But you don't move forward. You can't. You just failed. Well, you can you can like under under the existing under the existing structure that doesn't that doesn't outline for parents to look and say no there there should be a way and I and I'm and I'm even fine with Claire's language to say that this this may or may not lead to increase in in grade. I'm just talking about how do you get the student to engage

224to continue learning if there's if there's no if if there's no hope. And so this absolutely does not say that everybody gets a second chance um or or even you can you can you can expect a retake and a regrade on anything like that. That's not that's not at all what this what this language says. Um and it doesn't even protect the student that I'm that I'm thinking of from from not having a way out. But it does give the teacher some autonomy to help that student on an individual basis. They don't have to do it for everybody. They can do it for that student because it was that student's individual needs. That's what I want to protect is the is that teacher's ability to to look at students as individuals, not at well, you

225know, we can't our policy says that we can't help you, so you're just out of luck. I I don't. But does our policy say that though? Yeah. I mean, say that we can't help it. It doesn't. But the p the the practice is that they invoke this policy that the that this procedure that the that the schools have have have enlisted that's more stringent than this provides the autonomy. And so what happens in practice today is is that while while this exists and this is we say this is our practice, what is actually our practice is something that's more more strict and doesn't allow the the autonomy at the at the teacher and the team level. I I don't know that I agree with you on that. I I just I that's not been my

226experience with it that both personally and and from conversation with others I I think you know there are always exceptions to the rule but by and large I I think our teachers want our kids to be successful and and then when they do go off the rails rather than sort of going, "Yep, you're screwed for the rest of the year." Uh there is, okay, this is the way that you can earn it back or make it back or or help you. I mean, just the number of teachers that my kids had who did, you know, come before or or after class or these the opportunities to review and learn the material. Um and many times two you know, you you can claw back by doing corrections or or so forth did exist there without the

227policy. So to say there's a policy in place that doesn't allow that, I I I don't think that's quite accurate because there's nothing that restricts from that. It does give the teachers the autonomy. It's anything sniffing of and and I feel much more comfortable about this after, you know, Dr. what Dr. web has said, but anything that sort of smells of mandating that you have to do regrades, um, you know, that's just that's just not life. And and I don't think it's it's beneficial to the the whole. Um, you know, the we shouldn't be making policies for all of them because of exceptions to the rule. your your example where a kid got a 15 on an exam. Um, you know, that that I think is more of a better held at the individual at

228at the classroom level of the student, the teacher, and the the parent and the principal all sort of figuring something out than us trying to mandate through policy that in every scenario this is this is how it must be done each time. Well, I guess I mean that's I agree with that and that's why we're not mandating that this need to be done. But I but I will tell you that based in practice, it's not based on a policy, but it is based on based on um standards that are that are invoked at the at the school level um that that limit the that limit teacher autonomy to do to make those exceptions and they they just don't have it. Um and and to to specifically around if you in an IEP they limit this

229there's only there's only one one avenue to um to do this and it's test corrections under these circumstances and under this prescriptive measure and that's it. That's the only one that they'll approve. And and you're talking about in the context of grades. In the context of grades. And yes. Yeah. because I I don't I don't read this policy as written to be specific to grades. It's not. Yeah. But but it but it it goes I mean it not it's not only grades for sure. I'm speaking that's right. It would be a tool that a teacher would have the autonomy. Agreed. And it may be that we need to spend some time and I and I know Maria is sitting here examining what the IEP teams are committing to in that context. That's something that we

230that we need to look at. Dr. Webb, um, would you mind speaking to not just that, but the discussion about a a school standard related to what Mr. Galborth had concerns over? Absolutely. Mr. Galbreth has um shared that example with us and we actually have ongoing conversations and we're collect we have already collected some input from schools and surrounding that very topic and uh we're going to our hope is that this is finalized by the beginning of the school year and then we can wrap our arms around that particular practice um that he has identified at a particular school and we can identify where else that may be uh taking place and and um refine that as as needed. But yes, he's he's brought that to our attention and um I do know that to

231be true based on our conversation and my followup. Um I do think it's isolated, but we are um we are collecting feed we did collect feedback and we have another scheduled meeting to to review that data and to make some decisions about what we need to do to correct some of those practices that may be existing. I I want to say too since my microphone's still on uh is that I've really enjoyed this conversation. And I want to thank our board for the conversation around this policy. I think this is a great example of how uh the engagement in this instructional practice and teaching practice and us continuing to look at this policy and hear feedback from people um has continued to make it stronger. And so I've I've been thankful and I know the

232conversations that that Julie and Dave and I have had surrounding these, we've we've grown from the conversations and it's pushed us to uh to look at some aspects that we haven't looked at previously or haven't looked at recently um and refine some things. So this has been a a healthy conversation and I'm thankful for our board members for engaging in it with us. I want to add one tiny little piece related to that. Sorry. Uh Dr. Web said correct that means it was it shouldn't have been happening. So sorry Mr. One question I've had kind of as as this going back to the original discussion on this and it's been a hesitation for me is I appreciate the difference what you just said about the difference to the board and trying to be flexible to

233the this conversation and you know adapting things and uh but what I've also heard you guys say you know subtly I guess is that so much of what's written here in this policy is what you already do and and that in you would be doing this whether you had a policy or not that maybe the policy I'm not putting words in your mouth but maybe the policy isn't needed in order to accomplish what it what it seeks out to do right so I'm wondering just at one level can you talk about how much in this policy other than maybe that isolated situation that was just referenced um how much in this policy is actually different than what is current practice or or different than what teachers already have the ability to do and are and

234are inclined to do because I the other fear I have is that it starts to to to adopt this policy starts with the premise that teachers aren't doing everything they can to help students master these subjects. Um and I believe they are doing everything they can because they're evaluated based on outcomes, right? So they they have a vested interest in making sure the kids get it. Um so so I just ask it again I guess is what what what here is different than current practice uh in any way. Love the way you frame that. Our our teachers are doing incredible work. This last section uh that you we have pulled up on our big screen here. Teaching reteing and assessment of learning. That is our current expectation for practice. Now it varies greatly from classroom

235to classroom because there's autonomy associated with that. Um, but that is our expectation and that is our practice. If we go up to the top of the policy in regards to tests and quizzes, um, part of what I referenced in regards to the conversation and the depth of uh, things that we've asked questions about that we haven't asked questions about from from our office uh, in a bit has been in regards to the uh, release of of tests and quizzes. um when we we started some additional conversations about that uh I think I think we've evolved quite a bit with technology and there are some things that technology allows to happen more easily and naturally and there are some things that technology actually sometimes makes it a little bit more difficult to do such as

236release you know if you have if I have a digital assessment as an example and I I have created and such that if there are four people sitting next to each other. All four of them get a different different variation of that assessment. Um sometimes it makes it a little bit more difficult to release that assessment um and for everyone to have their own individual copy as an example, especially if it's grading along the way. Like there are all kinds of aspects that have kind of evolved as technologies evolved. I do think that we have less test and quizzes going home now than we've had, you know, five years a five years in the last 10 years. So, this this policy has caused us to have some additional conversations about why that is the case.

237Um, and how we can help support teachers in um disseminating which of those can go home and which of those should be going home and which of those do indeed have protected test items that should be protected for test security. So, that conversation is refined. Um and I would say um that it this part of the policy helps clarify what our practice will be moving forward and it does shift us a little bit. So the end of the policy not too many shifts the beginning of the policy. This is I think um where we'll spend a majority of when this is passed and even if it isn't if I'm honest um this is where a majority of our conversation is going to take place. Does that answer it for you Mr. Brown? Thank you. Um

238on the page two, just that very first line. Um, it just if the will of the board was to leave this section, which I think I would still advocate for removing it entirely, but if it was to leave, I'd like I would hope we could maybe change because right now teachers or teaching teams shall have a method for reteing and reassessment. So, just in my mind, it reads like there's there's no option for that really. Um, so if we could change it to may have or can have or I don't know there, but I just if it's if it's not really going to be that they have to do reassessments, re retakes that that's not going to be the expectation, then I would really really like to see the shall removed from that language. So

239Tony, the the definition of reassessment is not a retake. I Well, I I realize that, but some people will take it that way. So if I may Yeah. Yeah. I think I think what you're going So I think they should have a retesting and and reassessment formula because that's what we're talking about is is the learning here. And if you didn't get it, he wants once you understand. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And the reassessment part I'm not as strong on. I I think if I'm if I'm correct, I think you're where I am with it. It's the regrading portion that you're requiring it, which it again, I feel better with it doesn't have that. But maybe that's what's missing in it is just putting in some language in it that says, however it's worded, nothing in

240here says you have to regrade, which was kind of right. Right. Yeah. And that's not a very poetic way to put it, but I think that's, you know, words method, but I think that's at the end that would make me comfortable with it. Donna's got a question on the phone. Thank you. Um I I I just kind of want to echo this. I brought this up in policy meeting. I really think we need to change SH to May. I think it would give the teachers more autonomy and um it it just I think that I think that removing shell because that then it it sounds more mandatory and I'd like to make it more permissive so they're allowed the freedom to do it but they're not required to um I'd like to just make a

241or to or to remove it all together. Um but I will go with what the will of the board says, but that's just my thoughts. Yeah. Um the the examples or the recommendation from um the the teacher that she sent to the board kind of addresses that issue. Um, and in my my opinion is I would prefer that part not to be in there that the last the second page, but if it was, I would definitely go with a recommendation by the teacher that she gave um in the email to the board. Um, I thought that was very clear and precise. But um yeah, and then I would also like to see I mean I I it saddens me to you know when I think of a student who you know doesn't have the desire

242to you know to to work for that that semester on grades because they did so poorly on an on an uh that first test. And um I'd like to just see um the IEP team, you know, work on on some kind of remediation for that particular student um and you know, make it so that they can be successful and learn from it and grow and and you know, have accountability. So um if you know, if the team could work on on that kind of stuff, that would be um you know, a desire of mine. It seems like we have at least two options. Um certainly one of those is we just bring this language to the board meeting Monday night and amendments can be brought as anyone sees fit. The other option because there's been

243so many different things brought up about language changes that is to maybe take this off the agenda, come go back and get that language consistent with what we think the consensus might be and then bring it back at the next meeting for a second reading. But knowing that knowing that that would put us into the school year if we were to do that. Um which may create other another set of issues. Can can we not come to consensus tonight on some of the word changing and then voting? I think I I've got I mean I'm I'm completely comfortable with the with adding the the language that I think addresses the that this is not necessarily a a grade thing but a a learning thing. And so I mean I I'm totally comfortable with amending I

244mean this is this is kind of my I am too. So, um, hang on, let me pull it up. The last line was, um, it would just be adding a sentence at the end that says, "Method should be chosen by the teacher or teaching team. It may not necessarily lead to grade changes." And, and would that need to also be accompanied by changing shall in the first sentence of that paragraph or not? Well, that was a recommended change by this teacher. I would I'm I'm totally comfortable with the last sentence. The the first sentence I think goes against the goes against I mean it it it actually directly contradicts the the current practice that we that we have. I mean they're they're the expectation is that they shall have a method for reassessment not for

245regrading necessarily which is which is reflected in the in that last sentence but they do have to have they do have to retach and ret re reassess whether the students are are getting the material. Um so would would staff agree with that that statement that if you change it to from shall that it undermines or waters down your current practice? Yes, I agree with that. And and if you're reteaching something, the only way for you to know if the student learned is to reassess. And there are informal ways of doing that, formal ways of doing that. Um, and it can be a whole class thing or it could be an individual. Uh, and giving the autonomy to the teachers to choose that is important. But it is one of our our our practices is is

246to continue to ask the question, what are you going to do when the students don't learn? You have to retach it. If those are essential standards, if those are things the students really need to know, if you're teaching math and that's factoring, you don't just leave a kid without learning how to factor. You're going to continue to go back and and retach. And if you retach, the only way you know if little Lee Webb has learned how to factor is if you reassess her. And I can do that by talking to her. It could be formal. Um there are lots of different ways to do that within our teaching practice. It doesn't have to be um big and massive tied to grades. Uh it's about learning. If you if you change it to May, uh

247it's um leaves it an option to what to to when that student doesn't learn it the first time to go back and do something about it if it's essential. And it's not every single thing. It's what the teams have determined to be essential. And that second uh sentence there on essential standards. We'd really be better off without that paragraph being in there than it changing to May. Agreed. But we're parents are better off with it in there because they can't they they don't see it and they can see it now. I think that's really the question we have to answer about consensus tonight is is there more consensus to remove the paragraph entirely uh as originally proposed or is there more consensus to leave it with and add the sentence at the end the clar

248the clarifying sentence at the end. So if we changed it to May, that's not ideal. You're saying from shall if we remove it entirely, it kind of keep I mean you would still do I guess what you're doing. If we keep it shall and we add the doesn't like the grade the language at the end. I I agree with what what you're saying Mr. Bosik. I get your dilemma. Um we didn't bring this aspect to you guys to approve. It's our practice. Um, but if a policy is created and you want it to clearly establish what we're doing, this paragraph most closely from everything that we've described most closely depicts what our expectation of practice is. We're not perfect at it. This is what we strive to do. and and it's a professional teacher discussion,

249but I get how it could be misunderstood by somebody who's not living that on a daily basis, right? And that's that's part of what, you know, that teacher spoke to. But that's where the that's where the the additional sentence I think solves our issue because that's I mean that that that clarifies to to anybody that thinks that this is a that this is simply a a regrading scenario then. Yeah. Right. So Tanya, you brought the initially brought the idea of the removing the last paragraph, but I'm hearing you say now you're okay to not do that, but to add the sentence at the end. Is that am I hearing you correctly or not? My I I still think my preference is to not have it. But if it's the will of the board to have

250it, I like that better. I think I mean I mean if we're already doing those things then why are we explicitly having to say it in the policy well and there's at least at least three or four I've heard say remove the paragraph as the first preference and then if not then second option is so I don't know if I can call that consensus. Well, but I mean if we were and we have seven people participating, two people exactly. So just from like a and Donna has standpoint, would it be better off that we let's say if we I guess if we if we can't come to a census on what to do here tonight, I guess it would be better off to bring an amendment to vote to strike the whole par vote on

251that. See if there's consensus for that and then if not it would be Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. That's what I was about to say. So, you're we changed the language. Let's start with the let's let's start with adding let let's bring let's add the add the additional sentence as as what we take to the board. Can one more per Can somebody tell me that sentence one more time? I'll make sure you get it. Oh, fantastic. My my computer died. Okay. I don't want to duplicate this. Well, I mean, so, but then I mean, if so, so so this will this is the the the sentence is added for Monday night. Um, if somebody wants to try to strike and see how many people how many board members want to do that, then do that

252on on Monday. If not, we're not going to be trying to edit them any more language. Like, y'all are cool with it if it doesn't. I mean, I'm I'm cool with that. Like, we don't we don't get to we don't get to vote tonight. So, like that I think that works for me. Uh but that reflects as opposed to having to add it back like I mean this language has been here for for like we this is like our fifth reading or something like that. So um so I think it's more than that. So help help me help me understand not to belabor this but help me understand as a as a practical matter why we wouldn't have an amendment to strike the last paragraph. And if there's no consensus to strike the last paragraph,

253then somebody makes a motion to add the last sentence. So it's the reverse of what you just said. The other way. Well, no. I think I think we can we can add the sentence now because the consensus in the room is if we don't strike the paragraph, then they would like to have the the sentence there. That that sentence important and then put the sentence in. Yeah. and the and the policy as it's been through had has had the paragraph instead of it being removed. So I think it I think that's the e that's the easiest way to go. It's going to take one amend it's going to take one motion. Do you strike the paragraph or not? If it fails then we vote on the this one. If it not if it if it's

254strict if it if we strike it then we vote on the policy minus the paragraph. To that point, we I haven't heard anyone opposed to the additional words in um from that sentence that was sent at least from discussion. Might not be the first choice, but not opposed to it. Yeah. I mean, I don't like the show, but So, just to be clear, we're we're starting with the second choice and then going back to the first choice if second choice doesn't hold. Yes. So, does that Yeah. So, if I Am I the only one that doesn't make sense? On Monday night, I will make an amendment. I don't think there's consensus to remove the paragraph today. Right. Right. But well, I think I think I think there actually is. But I don't think there is.

255I mean, the definition of consensus is that we can't all agree. I've heard four people say that they would prefer to move. That's called a vote, but that's not consensus. It's discussion. It But it's not consensus of of taking counting counting how many people. It's not a majority. It it's not a consensus like that. It's by definition there's no consensus around the room. We've just got to figure out how to move forward. So, I will I would like to refer to something that I I believe Dr. Webb said at at the last policy meeting, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you said that while this is the practice, it's not uniform across all schools. And so, having this in the policy would provide give you all, you know, something to

256point towards to bring those other schools in line. So that's where that stuck with me clearly and so that's where I because before you said that I was leaning towards removing all of this as well and so I do think it's important to include for that reason but I would feel a lot more comfortable including it with that last sentence in in place the new sentence added to make it clear that it will not lead to a new grade. So, do you have the language for that last sentence? So, let's let's have that added and then that will be what's before us Monday night. If someone feels strongly that the last paragraph should be stricken, then make the motion to do that. All right. Any any more discussion on that? We got one more to

257get to and that's 66 6.411 411 student wellness. Tanya, just back back to you again. Yes. Oh, okay. So, this one should be short and sweet. This is just um in the original um copy that I I sent to Dana. Um it included the middle still well not these exact wordings but that the middle school students would not be um but would not be able to spend time on an electronic device um during time meant for physical activity or socialization because there were schools um who would use that um free time like maybe on a rainy day and then the students had an option to be on their um some kind of device. And so, um, just to make even if it's even if we have a a technology, um, policy that might state it,

258I would like it, um, at stated on on this, um, policy as well. And I wanted to know if we could make, um, some kind of a amendment to that before Monday. So, so, Mr. Chair, if I understand, um, what you're asking for is some language that establishes that Yeah, like on line like on line three of the third page. Yeah. Middle. Yeah. Did the middle school that did uh use of electronic devices for middle school students, it's not part it cannot be part of the recess time. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's that actually fits our standard. So yeah, that that won't be that and that's and Dr. Webb had mentioned that earlier and I just just want to just to make sure it's in there for me. Um and that yeah, that's my only request.

259So if it's and that's fine middle school, but just so um everyone is clear, elementary will stay the same. Yes. Uh middle school will be separated out to be walking to and from class and time spent on an electronic device. And then high school would then be walking to and from class. That's why I wanted to be clear. Yeah. Well, okay. Well, because we haven't come up to any dis, you know, any discussion. I mean, any conclusion and that doesn't mean at some point this could not change. I just want to make sure I'm on the same page as you. Yeah. I I understand. Yeah. I just want to make sure that the middle that my intent for middle school is being addressed. Got it. Because of parent wishes and um so I just would

260like it in there to make sure because we don't know what it's going to be like for the technology portion of it. So everyone's okay with that? Yes. Okay. So on both those last two, we'll see the drafts in the board packet, the new drafts in the board packet prior to Monday or whenever they get sent out. Correct. Whenever they are um published published, then there will be changes to three policies in green. Okay. In green. Green. Yes, ma'am. Okay. All right. Thanks for the good discussion. We're adjourned.