WCS Board Work Session 2022-04-14

001e e present e e e good evening the April 14th 2022 Williamson County Board work session is called to order uh want to say a quick thanks to our deputies who are here tonight Deputy George Hong and Deputy Donald mock thank you for being here with us tonight uh we will move on to um items on the consent agenda um the two items on the consent agenda are the approval of the May March 21 2022 Schoolboard meeting minutes and a recommendation for field trip fee request Mr Golden do you have anything you want to say there uh no certainly if there's any questions will'll be happy to answer them any questions board members there's no questions then we'll move on to the superintendent report Mr golden thank you madam chair we actually have two items

002listed on the agenda but I wanted to hit a just in time topic of course you all have gotten uh a number of emails related to the epic app and I wanted to give you an update on where we are and why we are where we are uh as as many of you know a question came up um from a number of uh families related to the content in the epic app and that included a request that some students not have access to particular titles in that app we have a little over 600 total apps and this particular app is an online library with over 40,000 selections uh we've used it about two years or so as a as a supplement it's not curriculum it's not our library but it is a it is a

003a supplement that's available to students it's largely been used uh during small group independent reading time at the elementary level uh an example might be we're in RTI time and a teacher's working specifically with with students with at tier 2 and uh some of the tier one students might um be given an assignment read you know pull up particular a particular book and read it but when the question came up about content uh we talked about our standards for content and you all are very familiar with this with curriculum we make sure that if a parent wishes to opt out of a particular lesson that we honor that likewise with our libraries if a parent does not want their child to check out a particular title we honor that as well so when we took

004that first look at this this app in that context there was nothing apparent in the way this app was set up that would allow us to do that so as a result we stepped back and we removed it so that we could research the this specific app to determine what we could do to honor that basic principle that we have to to give that respect to to parents as much as we possibly could and I know that you all received a lot of emails um from individuals saying why did you pull this out well that's why because we needed to step back and be respectful of uh of those parents who wanted us to make sure their child didn't have access to particular titles uh so we did that work and we found that with

005this particular app the best we could do with that because they don't have a feature that allows a particular book to remove to be removed is to remove that app from a from the child's dashboard uh and so what we let folks know I think the day before yesterday if I'm not mistaken uh is that we do intend to to reestablish that app but we wanted to make sure that parents had that opportunity if there's some content in those 40,000 plus books that they want to make sure their child doesn't have access to we will remove that app uh from from the dashboard uh and this really gets back to that discussion we've been having over the last year or so about content we went through the curriculum discussion with the state vetting content uh

006the vet vetting curriculum us going through our approval process and we have that that that review process built into policy policy a couple of months ago our Librarians talked to you about their standards and what they do in in the library so likewise when it comes to other content it's important to us that we have that same that same basic structure to make sure we we we honor those requests as much as as much as we possibly can so that's where we are uh with that particular app and I do believe that questions related to this will continue to come because you've heard from your constituents really the whole scope of who we serve some say this is very important to me that that that con that certain content be available to my child and

007others might speak to that same content and argue the exact opposite so for us it's extremely important that we do what we can to honor those individual parents in in their request and and that's where we are now I want to mention to you what we've put in our emails related to this there's another bigger broader issue related to a new law that was passed and actually officially goes into effect this coming school year the essence of this Law related to content is that other than curriculum we must on each school's website have a list of the material material available and the definitions in that particular law and I'll open it if you all have any questions may ask Dana to answer some of these about this detail the essence of this says that Li

008that we shall have on our websites a list of all library books a list of apps a list of uh any and all materials other than curriculum on our websites every app is structured differently we know that some apps currently do not have that capability so we've already started the process of reviewing our apps and we've started with putting these apps in we're working on putting these apps into two buckets apps that have content and apps that don't apps that might you know facilitate something but don't have content we will then look at those apps that have content drill into the details of how those apps are set up by the company and determine whether we can still use that app under this new law where we must put that list together uh I suspect

009knowing that there are some national discussions along these same lines that some of these companies that are producing these apps May evolve over the next year or so knowing that this is a trend not just in Tennessee but in other parts of the country as well but for now for us we anticipate that there are some apps that we're using now that we will not be able to use next year for sure we know that there are some apps that we use now where we will have additional content on our websites describing the detail this particular app does not have a list you can do a word search and find a particular book you're looking for but at the moment you can't pull up a list of everything they have we have other content apps

010where you can already pull up a list of everything you have and that's the process we're going to go through so one key to us to to to to our work when you speak to this is it's very important for us to recognize that when somebody is concerned about a particular content knowing that someone else wants and believes they need that content that we honor both parents as much as we can and make sure that availability is restricted to those who want it restricted and open to those who want it open so I felt it was important for you all to hear that basic reminder of what you've seen in some of my emails related to our process certainly open any questions related to to that first item I have six people who want to

011speak so far so before we get started Mr Golden can you please clearly recap what um what the access is what the access choices are for parents and families right now uh the app as I understand it the app is available during the school day for Access so if these if if the if it's available during the school day I believe the communication that went out said that parents can have it removed if they don't want their child to have access to it is that correct thank you for that this app structure is that it is available for free during the school day till 300 p.m. if I'm not mistaken at 300 p.m. it becomes a subscription service for parents some of our parents have told us they actually subscribe and and pay for that

012so within the school day it's available but we do have the power to remove the app the tile the icon from the dashboard for a student if their parent asks us to remove that um I did get an update we've had somewhere around 130 or so uh just in the past day or so ask us to remove that okay and then the second part is in the evenings it's only available via subscription only and that's the way the product is designed that's right my understanding is the way the product is designed that they they make their money off Subscription Service the best I can compare it to in a school setting to to give you a visual of it is school pictures we don't pay for school pictures but we we get the free school

013picture in the in the yearbook but they sell the photos to to parents it's a similar business structure um and and again we have had some parents choose to choose to uh to to purchase it but one other piece if I'm not mistaken outside of our workday a parent can sign up and they have their child can read one book a day this kind of a promo is is the structure that that we understand that app is has okay and one more question before Rick is the next speaker and then Dan are there parental controls for people who subscribe there are parental controls for for parents who subscribe um we actually do have the power ourselves to to hide um particular titles and and our our teachers do that but if somebody did a word

014search on the existing app they would still be able to pull that up it's not that it's blocked it it it it it may be hidden in the work they do the parent features on this app are more more robust than the features for the for the free version that's that's during the school day um and I I have not we have not drilled in deeply to the details of what a parent has control over if they are paying the subscription but we do know that some of those features are more robust okay so I just want to make sure we're we're on the same page with all of that so I do we agree okay uh Mr Wimberly then Mr Cash thank you Jason it sounds to me that epic is doomed for us

015because if we can't get a list then we'll be in violation of law so why not just go ahead and discontinue it our teachers are using it right now uh and that's that's the main reason uh the the concerns that came to us you know with some of the some of the content of the 40,000 we have no indication that our teachers are using that they're they're making good decisions with that with that broad app and so we concluded I concluded that for these next few weeks continue to give the the teachers that access because they are using it so as the teachers are using it um they they're familiar with what the kids are accessing during school hours yes thank you Mr Cash thank you madam chair um I've just got a couple of

016questions I get a lot of calls asking where all these apps came from can you kind of give an update on how we accumulated the 600 and when will we be having meetings to determine what we need and what we don't need thank you for the question so over the course of I'm estimating 15 years or so when did app start uh we uh we do have requests from our Professionals for for for particular assistance as supplements to their work our instructional technology department reviews the apps we look uh we look to uh to the our technology department that does the hardware work um and we make sure that uh that that it's that that the content of it uh and the purpose of it serves that instructional request of of the teacher or the

017administrator um we do have data on how how often each app is used um and so that is something that we we will look at as an aside epic happens to be the sixth most used app so there are some of those 600 there are some that are probably rarely rarely used but might serve a particular purpose in a particular class um from a review standpoint our instructional technology department right now has started going through the apps in the context of this new law to prepare for next year um that's an ongoing work so we these are just uh used uh to assist in the curriculum really aren't they that's right there's there's supplements we have our state curriculum and uh and and these are are additions right okay thank you Miss Cleveland then Mr

018Hall thank you madam chair um basically U Mrs Garrett and Mr wimbley um answered my question or I wanted clarification when it with epic the books of concern are they actually the teachers actually using them we have no indication that the particular titles that were asked about were actually used by any of our teachers is the majority of the concerns from elementary kids parents yes um during the school day are kids is there much time where the elementary school kids can surf the web they're pretty much in class for the most of the time you're correct students are in class the large portion of when epic is used is during those times and you all are familiar with RTI response to intervention where we have tier one instruction then we differentiate instruction for students in

019in traditionally reading and Mathematics uh during those times where where teachers have structured independent reading we have reading blocks it that might be used during those teacher instructed times okay and the subscription goes off at three so I guess I'm a little confused I understand the parents concern but when it's at the elementary level if the subscription ends at three then really the concern is those who buy the subscription the parental decision where the kids can use it at their will is that correct it's not really during the school for elementary level because there's really no window of time where they can access those books well there's never there's never 100% if if a student is doing in independent work in a classroom with a teacher uh we don't have a teacher hovering over the

020shoulder of every child at the same exact time so teachers do have structured independent reading time for some of their students and that's where it it could be searched if somebody knew a particular title to search it it could happen so when a parent says I don't want my child to read or check out a particular title if the app doesn't have that capability to block that it was important for us to let parents know that we can't truly guarantee that we can block that okay thank you very much Mr Hall thank you chair um so it seems like there a lot of the challenges with this uh pending legislation is about the effort it will be required to compile these lists I assume that we're trying to lean on the vendors as much as

021possible to provide that for Publishers and apps and everything as well because it's in their best interest that we keep using their materials thank you for that yes and I think we'll get varied responses based upon the based upon the corporate structure based upon their capabilities a technology that they're using but yes we we have already started having those conversations with some of the vendors to let them know we are going to have need that list okay and so some of that I'm trying to think of ways to just even manage this but I it's going to be so difficult on a school by school basis to uh to do that work I would imagine it's a lot uh one of the things one of the items that we've talked about is some of the

022detail about how exactly that will look might a link to a list on a school's website meet the standard for the law and if so you have one link and you have 28 elementary schools with the same exact link and you've got that taken care of um updates MH that companies add to content largely we don't know when many of those apps are updated right so that's another discussion that we're going to have to have so that we can keep them updated if a company maintains an update and we have a link might that meet that particular app's needs each one is going to be complex one of the one of the key discussions we're having surrounds teacher use of the apps those most used apps are you know obviously of our biggest concern we

023are customers of some of these companies and we pay for some apps and others are free uh and so you know when you're a customer you often have a customer representative who you can call directly often if it's free it's tougher to get access to someone so there lot all those nuances that that we all work through Even in our in our you know in our lives over regular business items where we will be experiencing over the next few months okay and then uh you anticipated one of the questions by saying that there have been 130 removal requests since Wednesday yes um and I know we said we' we'd be able to take care of those within 24 hours has that been a manageable task yes okay all right so it's and remember we have

024not turned the app back on yet okay we wanted to make sure that parents had an opportunity got it and I'm sorry if you said this already when is the app going back uh we gave the deadline for this first wave uh at at the end of the day today okay so you said that the teachers are using the app already so what are the ultimate options for for students who who's want the opt out well so let let me step back first we had school libraries MH this is an additional Library an online library all the tools that teachers have had before this app came a little over two years ago or so uh are still available so the library avilable uh there are um there are other sites that have books some of

025them are paid sites some of them are not so there are other options great thank you Mr Brown thank you m chair um Jason a few questions I guess um some of my questions have been answered but going back you said two years or a little more than two years since epic was adopted or put on the Chromebooks have there been any instances uh in that two-year period leading up to say last week when we first this was first brought draw our attention where teachers or anyone on staff at schools have found something on Epic that you're aware of that they've that they've raised and said we want to avoid that or we want to block that no we have not okay um in in the process of reviewing it in the last week or

026so have you I mean what level of concern did you have about the ability or the inability of filtering during the school hours for those times when students might have access unsupervised or at least no as you said no one looking over their shoulder and what level of concern do you have about their not being a filtering capability it's it's an it's an elementary book app uh the the use that that our teachers have used in knowing that they want a particular book for par for a child to look look at knowing the titles of the books that has not been a concern uh now these apps in this one I think it's pretty pretty apparent to us that the apps get updated on a regular basis and so when we heard the first concern

027knowing that it's not core instruction curriculum that that that that uh that we that we've that we have a process for the wise thing to do was when that first complaint came to take a step back and make sure that uh that that we were honoring that parent request but you you don't foree in the next six weeks of remaining in school that the lack of a filtering capability on this app during school hours could present any problems we have we do have a filtering capability for um our obligations under the internet child internet protection laws okay um and the so the filters protect against you know pornography Etc the particular content in a book is is is is very broad the possibilities on that so as we we the key to this was with

028parent knowledge of what may be in this Library we wanted to make sure they had that power to decide do I want access or not and final question is what what about the other apps I mean I know this is the focus has been on Epic but what about the other apps I mean is this prompted any sort of review of the other apps that are commonly used frequently used by teachers that the possibility that there's something in those that might be objectionable that no one has yet found thank you for the question yes um I'm going to give one example well there there there we do have some current event apps news apps What Might Have Been compared a generation ago to the time new news week you know the online versions of of

029um of those current events uh we we are doing a double check on our filtering systems for the apps because every app does have a little bit different structure um our internet filters for example any app that automatically goes to a website when someone is redirected we have a very clear understanding through our technology department that that is automatically protected by our filtering system system because the web is protected some of those more commonly used apps are getting double checked okay thank you Mr galberth sorry um so Jason from a I guess when I heard the 600 I was a little I was a little concerned um just uh because it seems that seems that the the that I guess the our control here is that we we kind of throw everything out there and

030if we use it if anybody uses it then it's out there and we're going to allow parents to to then opt out like this seems um seems like we're asking the parents to to have to be completely knowledgeable of what's what's on their what's what all is available on their laptop and or on the Chromebook um and and think this so I'm I'm kind of I'm not sure I'm comfortable with with with that or or if there's some other process that we're going to go through to to limit the limit what's what's available um rather than rather than put stuff out here that we that we know is going to be objectionable to um to a good number of people um and so and these These are these are companies that that are more than

031likely for for-profit um I was looking at their website um and we're we're giving them access to to our to our families and um and kind of propagating a business model I'm I'm presuming that we get the app for free correct to get on the laptop and so that's the business model you get it for free convince everybody to to subscribe um but we don't have to but if I'm if I'm understanding correctly um if the if parents subscribe is that me or is that um I I do think it's coming from your microphone but I can't tell um oh it's not you it's not me oh it was um so if they are if they do subscribe they can get to the they can get it get to it from anywhere it doesn't have

032to be from the from the child's Chromebook right it's just a subscription service that's available from any internet browser right it's not and also from the app um so if I guess this to me we've talked about this prior and I had asked that we we have a larger review of of technology and it was before the the Epic um situation came about because I really want to know um you know this is it's a great reading tool for parents who want to do it um I know some parents would would rather not be reading from a computer and would rather have their kids actually if we're in RTI time that's a time to put away the computers um because I know from from having kids just because they're on their on their Chromebook looking

033at a computer doesn't necessarily mean that they're always going to be looking I mean third graders know how to switch between apps and there's no way to control that so if they're reading a book you can tell if they're reading the book or if they're or if they're off playing and so um I want to have a a bigger discussion of now that we outside of the pandemic the the threat to go to remote is is largely minimized even though it's not gone away forever we know it might might rear itself at some point whether it's co or something else but we made some decisions during Co to um very quickly and we had to we had to shift right and we we added a couple of learning management systems and we added lots of

034lots of things we gave one we we got we ordered a bunch of Chromebooks um and so I just want to have the discussion about how much technology is is the right amount of technology for the for the right grade level um I've had people ask me like why is my first grader taking their Chromebook home every single night to to charge like does that is that really do we have to be prepared to to go remote every night are they really doing homework on the Chromebook [Music] or after school activities I'm thinking of athletic uh practices Etc can they start earlier and then go longer if they want or thank you coach is going to like this thank you for that question Mr Wimberly our athletic coaches a a vast majority of them at

035the secondary level are also teachers who are engaged in this same work so we each individual campus would have an individual plan for students who needed to stay after school to wait for those um activities to begin at the at the traditional time but our coaches teers would be engaged in the instructional work and so practices would not be affected we're going to give something for them to do absolutely we would supervise them they would go to the library or have supervised study or activities that would be supervised yes oh they'll love that they would love it I agree yes sir so I don't I don't see anyone else um just just one comment um you know we have we have lots of folks in our community right now very interested in in our teachers

036and the way that that they are feeling and retaining teach teachers and and showing concern um and so I have heard I've personally heard from elementary teachers that they think this time would be valuable but can anyone I mean when we're when we're asking for Community input I'd also like to you know hear hear parent input and also hear teacher input about this but does anybody have any information that they can share with us uh about how meaningful this will be to these these teachers I can speak to that a little bit uh I I speak most every month once a month to our wcea building leaders they brought this up to me two months ago if I'm not mistaken in the elementary leaders to a person said this is very important to us as

037elementary teachers uh there there are a lot of there are a lot of benefits that may not be apparent on the surface I touched on some of those the the relationship between a a teacher lead and the less experienced teachers is built during these times in a very professional way I've sat in on some of these uh discussions and coaches sit in and and and assist as well seeing those teachers Step Up coaches instructional coaches thank you for that thank you thank you instructional coaches we have we have see we use our term terminology uh we have literacy coaches and math coaches in the elementary school buildings and that's who I'm talking about thank you for that and so short answer which I always struggle to give is it's it what I have heard consistently

038from teacher leaders is this is going to be very valuable if it's approved thank you I don't see any other questions or comments on that topic thank you madam chair the next item we are we at about 40 minutes uh of uh of of oh actually we're past that we're over an hour um uh Mark Samuels and Allison Nunley are going to give you a 15minute or so presentation on Planning and Zoning specifically we want to give you an update on the out of Zone approval process uh as an operational update knowing that tomorrow is actually the deadline for folks to make out of Zone request and so we felt like it was timely under the new process that we're going for out of Zone to give you an update on where we are Allison

039just when you thought I was going to come talk about school resoning I know you're so disappointed Jay is already I'll come back this fall and we'll talk about that but today I will try to be brief because I know you guys have a lot on your plate this evening open Zone schools we're going to talk real briefly about what we've done in the past the changes we've made for this year um the current applications are out of Zone and the Lottery process so traditionally in the past um the board approved a list of open Zone schools and the deadline to submit your application was May 15th only schools that had space available in the feeder pattern were open zone so that really limited what we what we offered in the past um and we

040usually only did 25 spots Centennial High Schools the only school that ever got to 25 almost every year and we did a weit list up to the first day of school this year with the new state law we were required to list on our website all of our schools and what space that they had available for open zoning we were um required to post that for 14 days before we start accepting applications we were required to have a window of at least 30 days and we asked the board to change our deadline from May 15th to April 15th because we're having to hold all of our applications during this process so our application Windows February 1st through April the 15th which is tomorrow the criteria that we used uh schools that have ongoing construction were

041not available for open zoning and schools that were already over or close to their stated building capacity were not available for open zoning so we listed those for you here's what you really want to see where are we as of today our elementary schools all have plenty of spots available I don't think we're going to have to run a lottery at any of the elementary schools so we're excited about that but we've also given families Choice middle and high school a little bit different uh Spring Station Middle Schools are only middle school that's close to their available open Zone seats look at Franklin High School it's going to make me sweat just a little bit I'm going to have to worry about about this over the weekend we're at 93 I checked before we started

042we're still there we get two more and we're going to have to run the lottery on Monday what happens when we run the lottery so let's say that Monday that there's no school Lottery required which is going to be all of our elementary schools and most of the middle schools um we're going to go through and check the status the parents going to receive an email through their scrip Choice account that says your student has a seat the parents going to log into their script Choice account and they have to accept or reject their seat the reason that they have to do that part is because we have a few families that have applied at two or three or four different schools trying to make sure that they get an open Zone spot um once

043they accept their seat then we'll change the school path field and the out of Zone school's ready to enroll what happens if we have to do a lottery so if we have if the number of requests exceeds the spots of aailable that's what we have to do we're going to take the students names and their script Choice order number and put it in Excel we found random.org we're going to use their sequin generator to assign a number to each student we're going to sort the number smallest to largest and then the parents have to do the same thing they have they're going to get an email they're going to have to go in and accept their seat then we'll get them ready to enroll if they're out ofone School the remaining students are wait listed

044they will also be be notified that they are weight listed and we'll maintain that list up to the first day of school and that is my short presentation how about that I bet Carol didn't even have to time me can I add two items hopefully less than a minute number one in those communities that do lotteries for for open Zone it is a big big deal uh we may be long-term headed that way but uh I want you all to know that it's looking like we will probably do this for the first time part of what we're going to do is vet this process uh the good thing is that it's really right on the edge of of of the numbers but that's that's one key point just know that this is a really big

045issue in the communities where this happens regularly and we may be headed that way second she mentioned script scripts choice and random.org yes we are randomizing we are Rand we are randomizing the random so we are actually making sure that we are randomizing this he says that because the order number is assigned to that student's application and they assured me it's a random order number but then to be safe we're going to put them in a random order again and a lot of these companies that do zoning this is a routine for them because a lot of lot of places across the country do this it just happens to be new to us just FYI um if we have to do a lottery anticipating it may be Franklin High School uh besides Alice and I

046going through that Willie Dickerson will be in the room and if it's Franklin High Shane pantel will be in the room so they can observe what we did and can then talk to any any parents who have some concerns about that so that's just another effort to do uh um some good trans transparency Mr [Music] Elliot it's my favorite topic um what about growth so we fill up we fill up Franklin High School we've got a 300 house neighborhood comes online that's adding 50 homes a year what are we how are we managing that thank you for that um Allison you have an extra slide that you were that you were holding that's a reminder of the decisions the board made with respect to numbering the open Zone schools when you all voted a couple

047of months ago um oh what did I hit slide 16 is one of those if see I'm I'm not sure she can pull that reminder up but we anticipated that the number of open seats that we made available anticipated growth during the window of time where these students are going to be here it it was the reserved seats we had to reserve a certain number of seats so we did that for every school we did not maximize to the to the full extent of each school capacity we instead looked at our growth projections and accommodated for that and and had few receipts available so for instance at Franklin High what you approved had 200 reserve seats in Franklin High um sorry Mark it was it it it flashed for there you go that's what I'm

048talking about okay we actually presented this chart to you couple of months ago the third column from the right is the reserved enrollment growth spaces for each of those schools um not knowing not having done this before we made a deter mination that reasonable numbers uh were there some of the same for for many schools and so at Franklin High School in particular here it's 200 reserve seats so we did that to allow for growth within the Zone uh new students coming in other exua extenuating circumstances that might arise for certain people um so that's the flexibility Elbow Room um whatever you want to call it that that we worked into each School necessarily based on what the new law requires it's not perfect it's projections it Still Remains a concern of ours what about

049specific grade levels how are we going to manage the fact that you're now going to I mean with with this issue you're not going to be able it's going to be difficult to project how many seats you're going to have in kindergarten versus first grade versus fifth grade it not likely that you can all of a sudden have a large I guess maybe we'd have it already but I'm assuming that our grade levels are within a given School are fairly even maybe I'm maybe that's an incorrect assumption but thank you we we do see some Regional differences uh you know in some of our newer areas tend to be more younger children and as and as as as students age up that's certainly a possibility the state regulations actually base pupil teacher ratio on grade

050bands and so with with within the grade bands U we have a little bit more flexibility than particular grade levels uh so so we looked at the possibility of particular students in particular grades but with our growth it's not realistic to be able to pinpoint particular grade levels or particular classes uh and that's why we ultimately landed on total school because it's just it's part of our growth it's a little easier but but not so we're not going to we don't see a possibility of saying within Brentwood middle we're going to have a separate lottery for 67th and eth then is what we're we we determined to do schoolwide Lottery yes sir okay um and we're still doing it by siblings the lotteries are going to be by I mean by student and not by

051family meaning that if I've got three children if I've got three children in the lottery I've got three tickets compared to my neighbor who only has one that you're in essence correct so so if there happen to be three children in one school that goes to a lottery if three of them one child hit one hit the other two will get in through sibling if all three hit they have taken three seats under this structure in year two approach what's our how does this change in year two well the board votes on open Zone schools every year I would anticipate that it will be a slightly different next year but once I'm in I'm in for the duration of that oh yes sir once you are approved out of Zone you are approved through the

052highest grade level of that school and so our number of SL thoughts potentially are going to assuming you know assuming new students and leaving students are fair Fairly much equal which is probably not a good assumption but just for the sake of Simplicity it's the case then the and I fill it up then my open slots will be pretty much whatever who the number of out of Zone students that exit or or graduate out of the school I would anticipate that the available of open Zone spots for every school will be a little different next year just because enrollment is going to be different New Growth will come in and that will change our um reserved growth spaces growth is our big variable there okay so two personal thoughts one is I I think the

053lottery ought to be done by family and and if your family hits then you get all the siblings that are there but to make it fair it I I believe it's more fair by a family count as opposed to by individual students and number two uh I kind of like the Bing the pingpong ball approach to to this and we could kind of put it on he could stream it and uh anyway check and see if the if the uh if the supply of pingpong balls is uh is making it in the truck somewhere good sir if you want to label all the ping pong balls we made need 94 or so for it' be a big bin right Qui so if I may Mr Mitchell I want to do a double check with what

054you were talking about with the family Lottery are you are are are you saying that if one gets it that that that takes care of it and the the remaining spaces are still open what what I'm saying is if my family of three I get one ticket but that covers all three of my I got you thank you okay yeah we had what we advised families to do was to do an open Zone spot for each child at that school I know that's what we're doing but but the point is that if any one of my three children get it then we're good where Jay's single child has to wait for him where if my family gets it then yeah then I I only have one ticket right it's not by all three children that

055makes sense am I I don't think I don't feel like I'm I don't feel like I'm articulating that very well no you that we got it that makes sense Mr Brown I actually agree with that point I think that makes seems to be more fair that than um then basically all three getting in the lottery um to to make sure I'm clear on this 90 so if on the 90 Franklin High School example if 95 it sounds like it's headed this way if there are 95 requests then it automatically triggers all 95 of them so one more over the 94 triggers all 95 going into the lottery yes sir so if you were the first applicant made the first request of the 94 you're treated the same way as the 95th yes up up to

056this point under our standards it has been first come first served yeah Tennessee has changed that got it Mr galberth have the the elementary version of this or just the high school [Music] it's either slide uh 15 or 17 it's right next to it I'm just ask I was I was interested to see the the total number of seats available versus um versus our capacity if we if we had to if we had to to provide all that based on this based on this new state law the total number of of spots that were um made available is in the 3,000 range um the total number of takers at this point is much less than that at this point I was I was just looking at like a Jordan who we know has good amount

057of capacity but we're only so we we do actually have so we're only making 109 open Zone available spots or is that 150 I'm trying to figure out 109 you're right 109 okay so how do we how do we come up with that number versus the 259 so reserved available so we left some available for growth so we just applied a factor and that and that was part of the law to be able to to do that the law gave us substantial discretion to project individual Community needs and yeah and we did that that's why I I got I got worried that that we had less capacity than we did when I was looking at the at the numbers and I I I had forgotten that column so thank you I don't see any other

058questions all right Madam thank you you're welcome Madam chair just a couple of quick ones uh in the back of the uh packet and the additional documents we do have a proposed Communications plan that's related to uh to one of my goals this year uh and I'm not going to speak to that directly tonight also a quick update on the County Commission review of our budget I sent an email to you we had our first joint County Commission education and budget committee meeting uh we are we are on good track for that uh we don't know ultimately where the where the the commission's going going to land the a large portion of our questions were related to the revenue side of the budget uh the the three key components of our budget include be currently

059sales tax in the county portion of the sales tax that they use for schools and property tax and the commission is very interested in monitoring what the state is doing related to Tisa and what may happen next year so what the what the commission does this year related to our budget may be very different from what happens next year depending on what happens at the state level again the state projections include a projection that we actually get more State funding if Tisa passes we've made it we we we've discussed this if Tisa passes it looks like those annual budget decisions at the state level are going to continue to be important to us because they because it's still going to take it's still going to take those annual budget decisions at the state level um

060but in any event the commission's watching that on the expense side of the budget we have a lot of questions related to pay we've emphasized to them our need to adjust to market conditions that goal you've placed on me this year we emphasize to them inflation and the need to address that part of the market and also our our competition with our neighbors those are really the three keys that we've discussed so I just wanted you to be aware of that because I anticipate in the next two months prior to the late June decision by the commission we'll have many more discussions related to that that's my report okay that was a wonderful 45 minute report there um moving ahead to our operations report Mr Samuels thank you madam shair good evening board welcome to

061very wet and windy uh April as of last night um the good thing about April right now is the co numbers are down so our transportation department doesn't have as many Callins as they've had before so things are looking good there and let's keep it that way sir um an interesting thing in in March the um Tennessee Department of Education did a survey on uh bus driver shortages in Tennessee I'm going to give you a little bit of Statistics from that it's kind of interesting 84% of the Tennessee school districts are currently short staffed and bus drivers 84% no surprise over a third of uh those districts are running double routes each week which we are doing that one of the scary most scariest statistics about that is 40% of those districts report that the

062average age of drivers is between 60 and 69 degrees uh degrees 60 60 and 69 uh um years old thank you Celsius or Fahrenheit now for us right now the N we 48% of our drivers are aged 55 and older so that's kind of the range that we're in um so another bit of data that the state is going through the analysis is is going to give each School District an analysis of how the compensation package for your District compares to the districts in your surrounding area and that's based on the data that all the districts have given we don't have that yet that will be very interesting for us to get and look at the only other thing I say today was a very interesting morning we had almost a dozen trees that were

063down across roads and what that required as our drivers to uh uh be proactive and I listen to the radio a lot and I got to tell you um it's comforting to hear how our drivers coordinate on the Fly about I got a tree down here Hey Joe can you help me over there Sally can you help me here and our drivers know their zones they know the other driver Zone they know the kids in their in their school buses and it's just comforted to hear that in fact this afterno or this morning I talked to a driver at our our transportation area who I had heard a couple weeks ago had had some some pains in his chest but he delayed going to the doctor that day until he finished his route okay and

064he was fine but I talked to him I says I appreciate your dedication but let's try and take a little different approach his response to me and this is a 20-year driver his response to me was so emotional on he values his job so much of being one of the first Smiles that his students have in the day and because of certain situations he have and and that's the dedication that our bus drivers bring the job and those of you who have helped in our cafeterias I think you'll see you've seen the same thing in our Food Service Associates as well that this is a smiling face in this case going to give you some food to eat it's just heartwarming to hear talk to those people and I I offer you again to listen

065to the radio and come on down to the transportation and get into a cafeteria and help us out there so moving on I sent you the construction report last night um I I I mentioned delays that we've had in the in in two projects um WEA severe weathering patterns we've had in the last couple months have impacted those um but the supply chain issues of the that we've heard in a lot of places including our food services side are are starting to creep up in the construction side just this two weeks ago uh the Tennessee concrete Association U put out a um a flyer on some of the some of the problems that um they're seen with concrete and cement here they they they specifically said the Ready Mix concrete industry is experiencing unprecedented issues

066with obtaining the necessary raw materials to produce ready mixed concrete this applies not just to Portland cement but it also applies to other critical materials such as the ad mixtures the Aggregates and the fly ash and stuff that go in there and you ask and and we're starting to see some of that you ask well why is that what are the reasons behind that well they say it's it's all due to standard thing with other shortages sudden high demand after covid driven re uctions and uh production and Staffing Workforce shortages as well as wait for shortage of drivers so it's hitting us in a in a couple different ways uh on the maintenance side I will report just just an update the uh um Centennial High School storefront repairs contractor has um got confirm arrival

067on uh the storefronts and storefront doors uh next month in May and to the point where and and and um Adam Christopher has worked out with the principal there we'll start that work right after school is out cuz it will it will make a mess if you will the front entrance there uh last point is Food Services again James and his professionals continue to knock it out of the park serving our kids in March we served 3,743 average meals per day what also happened in March we had spring break in March they did that on a month that was at Spring break so but you know they all went home tired after the end of the day Staffing continues to remain steady but we're picking up in fact Andrew Chef Andrew who who was helping

068to serve the meal tonight for the last three or four months James if I remember correctly he's been filling in cafeteria managers in in the school hadn't been able to really do his job he's not having to do that this month because they they James has been able to hire um some cafeteria managers there um but James is still having the same kind of supply chain issues just last week we were talking about shortfalls in paper products and flatware uh and scrambling to find suppliers that have that to supply what we need for the rest of this school year but not only through the end of May we've got four weeks of uh of summer camp coming up in June so those challenges continue to be U significant there and we certainly very much appreciate

069your help um helping out in our cafeterias pending your questions that completes my report thank you Mark oh sorry I just want to add one thing that's a bad story about the driver I'm hoping that was a gross exaggeration of symptoms because it is not acceptable to be having chest pains in driving yesod and that's why I had the conversation with them period second concrete's one more example we can give you dozens of examples of of issues related to that thank you sure um now on to to the board chair report and just to note to everybody we'll take a 10-minute break after this um first up we're we're entering the season where there are lots of really special events that happen um we have The Shining Apple Awards next week and that's always a

070wonderful time to acknowledge and honor um our top Volunteers in the district uh we have upcoming graduations and if you haven't signed up please make sure you sign up for the graduations that you plan to attend contact Lydia Glen to do that um and also another really special graduation ceremony that we have that um that well it's not a graduation ceremony but it's a it's a ceremony to honor uh our students who are going into the military and we've received an invitation to that that is always a wonderful event to attend um and then um finally just just please continue to volunteer in our schools as we know we've been able to volunteer uh I believe all year in some capacity in the schools uh primarily helping um serve lunch and again um I was

071talking to um one of my PTO this week um you know that pto's know that not everything we do is glamorous but it's very effective and impactful uh for us and others to volunteer so that maybe a teacher or an assistant principal or a teacher's aid gets the opportunity to sit down and have five minutes to eat their own lunch so uh just a reminder that we can continue to stay strong and volunteer the rest of the year and then uh I'm also going to ask Miss Cleveland for a legislative report okay um legislation is coming to a close you're pretty quick so things are dropping off and some things are taken steam the first one is um Senate Bill 2250 this one is kind of I've gone back and forth and this bill was

072um adds a requirement to the for the leas to allow non-resident students who apply pursuant to the present law procedures to enroll in a school within the laa if space is available with exceptions there's some exceptions to this um this was taken off the um k um through 12 subcommittee in the house on uh March 29th but then it was picked up again and put on the Senate calendar and was assigned to the general subcommittee of the Senate education committee on 3:30 so that is still moving forward um my feeling is is this has something to do with vouchers it just sounds like it can't guarantee it but it sounds like it uh then the other one that we were really concerned about um but it's I think it's floating somewhere else is HB 1944

073this was the bill that prohibits an laa of public school or public charter school from allowing of seen materials or materials harmful to miners to be available to the students in the school libraries controlled by the AL or public school this one was deferred to Summer study which is basically means it's no longer considered but it's also now I think in another bill that's much more specific um this particular one from what I understand um conflicted a little bit um with Governor Lee's um age appropriate Act of 2022 and so that's why I believe they just deferred it and now they've got another bill going that is much more detailed that we need to be you know looking at um then then we've got one that's sb1 1887 and this present law which is a

074good one this present Law requires laas to provide 180 days of classroom instruction in each School term but the bill authorizes laas to meet up to 10 days of classroom instruction requirement via remote instruction and this is a really good thing because it allows us to have remote and Jason you want to go a little bit more on that uh thank you for that and you would actually mention that to me a day or so ago um that bill was actually amended from 10 days of potential remote to two per semester and it actually passed with that Amendment so I think this this gives us more flexibility I'll give you one example of where we might need it down the road let's say we have one of those long ice storms and we're on the

075edge of running out of inclement days it might give us the ability maybe on day four or five of an ice storm to have a remote day to avoid having to extend our school year so it's nice to have that flexibility uh in the event something unusual happens that's the end of my report thank you Miss Cleveland uh we're now going to uh take a 10-minute break so be back at 7:55 thank you e e e okay we're back uh moving on to new business approval of out of County tuition weight for full-time employees Mr golden thank you madam chair uh two months ago you all voted for the uh employee tuition rate which actually at that time was the 7th year of keeping it flat uh about 12 years ago we had a substantial

076reduction up until that point the employ the out of County full-time employee tuition rate was based on the same tuition rate as as uh anyone who might be moving into the county uh [Applause] non-employees uh after a lot of discussion that we had late last month and some conver Sation that that I've had with individuals you all brought to me that you would like us to revisit it historically there's been a lot of discussion uh uh at the board level and at the County commission level over the question of out of County tuition for our employees there has been a longstanding expectation that we have honored regularly of charging tuition however I believe that that the time is right for us to make another substantial reduction in the in the tuition rate uh and you

077can see in my memo here that that that uh I recommend that we drop it this coming year from 3850 family rate for full-time to $2,000 family rate I know that there have been requests about reducing it to zero uh I think this is an appropriate significant one-year step uh to see how it goes with the County Commission I also believe that the Tissa proposal has the potential to make this particular issue less significant based on how the state proposes to fund um and so so I I I anticipate that this is this will be something if you pass this that we talk about next year based on how the current funding model is set up uh so this is this is that middle of the road a substantial reduction from where we are without

078a complete reduction and I think given my conversations with individual um County Commissioners uh that this is an appropriate step to address where we are with our particular needs and see how it goes Mr Hall thank you um so during the math this turns out to be about a $200,000 uh budget impact is that largely what's driving the dollar figure or is it that we think this reduction is what can make the most that can make a meaningful impact to attracting uh Talent from outside the county the revenue side is not a big driver on this uh our our projected Revenue that's in our budget right now that the County Commission is reviewing is $310,000 I'm not sure that this is a dollar Ford dooll reduction on the revenue side anyway because it might actually

079encourage a small number more M uh it'll certainly be a relief to those who've chosen to do it but we'll we'll be able to see how many more choose it um with it dropped to $200 a month you know $2,000 is $200 a month um so it won't be a one toone reduction but in any event compared to our three large Revenue sources the revenue side's really not not the issue what I've heard over the years from individual committ is they might hear from a constituent who who who pays property taxes that I want to make sure that everyone who uses the services pays some portion we've been able to justify in years past the the difference between the county portion and the state portion of the per pupil expenditure and later we've been able

080to reduce it part of the discussion we had maybe 12 years ago was even those who don't live here and don't pay the property tax or rent where their you know their property owner is paying the property tax there's some sales tax consumed we were able to make a drop based in part on that argument a dozen years ago um we don't have those kinds of justifications for this reduction but I believe based on the changing market conditions MH the the the the spike the last couple of years in in housing cost Tak a big step is an appropriate thing to do now thank you Mr Mitchell thank you madam chair um so Jason thank you I I support this the got a couple of suggestions to my fellow board members maybe we look at

081it as a I like to think that we could throw an incentive for retention in here if we did something like uh you get a a refund of of the of the $2,000 per family a of after five years so if you hit when you hit your 5-year Mark or move into the county you get maybe a $10,000 refund on on your um on what you've paid back in uh the other question I would have I have for you is is there are you will we still continue to have the reduction every year over year on that thank you under our current sop just as a reminder for you all and and for those who are listening our current um uh standard operating procedure is in year one you pay the listed tuition in year

082two it's a 10% reduction on down to 20% at year nine we would apply that same standard to a reduction so that would be immediate for next year if somebody happened to be in year five they would have 50% off that 2,000 and they and then it would drop down to 200 so the end result is 200 a year for for year what through what for year nine and later nine nine and up yeah okay thank you Mr galberth so is there was there any magic to your 2,000 number I mean I know it's roughly half and seems to be a split right down the middle was that is that is there anything more with your conversations with the mayor that that this is anything lower than this is going to be a problem or

083we did not talk specific numbers uh anything lower um we did have that discussion about the H the historical things that they hear um from from their Community uh and I let them know that that um given the work we had done the conversations I had with many of you my intent was to to recommend a reduction uh I looked at our history the last time we took a significant drop I we went from 5,000 and change to 3,000 it was somewhere around 50% reduction and so I I I estimated that same projection for our next big step well I I certainly appreciate Elliot's um thought around I think as an as an example of how to have some skin in the game I know they that that's been the I think that's been the

084mayor's response is we we want them to have to have some skin in the game and I think I think asking for somebody to commit to to five years or rewarding them when they when they get to another 5 years is is significant enough um contribution that that that that I I believe that they should be be able to um to get that money back at the end of the day um so I would I'm definitely I'm definitely a proponent of that um the the only thing I I just I just wonder if um if the $2,000 number is is right um I mean I would I would say something smaller would would feel would feel better given given that it's not a huge we're not doing this for the revenue we're doing this because

085we want them to to pay or the County Commission has said that they want them to pay something um I I would like to I would like to push a little bit further and see um and see where they are because they could always they could always revise it and then we have to come back and approve it so I would rather reduce it to a th000 or something um I mean I'm I'm fine to I'm fine to say zero and see what they what they have to say about it but um so want to know how far we want to how far we want to push it all the all the Commissioners that have spoken publicly and have been quoted in the paper um I've talked to several of them have all said it's

086been this standoff um well we were waiting for the school board to say something and they haven't said anything so this is our opportunity to give them give them our our proposal and see what they have to do with it I don't think they're going to be offended if we if we take it away and then they have to vote on it and say no or or amend it then let's let's have that um have that communication with them via VIA a resolution thanks well to both your comments certainly defer to the will of the board we'll do some research on the on the refund idea I know I've had some brainstorm excuse me some brainstorming discussions with many of you uh the idea of you know the would would a would a forgivable loan

087be possible could the refund be possible we'll do some we'll do some research on that Mr Welch thank you I'm glad we're at a point where we can finally have this conversation know it's been a long time coming Elliott I know you've been a strong advocate for getting us to this point for years been very consistent on it for that uh you know our colleague Bobby hullet was big on it and uh before that I think Rick will remember uh Ken Peterson was was very big on it um a few others so uh I think it's good and bad that we're finally at a point where I think we've got some consistency on this it's good that I think we're all behind it for the most part and for I think it's a bad thing

088because of why it's it's driving us it's we think we've gotten to that point because of the breaking point we're at um listening to uh Vicky talk about you know our our teacher applications being down 50% um just the number of students going into the education profession being down as well having to import teachers it's really at a kind of a drastic Breaking Point with that and I think about you know what's our competitive Advantage when we are trying to higher teachers versus surrounding districts you know since we're all competing for limited resources especially when you know those resources are stem teachers or special education or what have you um and what was a year ago or so Rick Wimberly made this excellent point about you know what we pay in salaries our teachers cannot

089afford to live here there's you know I think the median house price is around 600,000 there are no1 $200,000 homes in this County I would love for someone tell me about them because I'll invest in them right now but uh we do the math and what we pay at really any point our starting salary and on teacher salaries alone that can't live in this community and buy a home from scratch I think there's a lot of us who couldn't buy our own homes if we had to do it right now so all of this to say kind of getting back to it is what are competitive advantages it's it's a higher cost of living uh to to be here in the county uh if you can't be in the county then you've got to commute

090further uh gas prices that's an issue um but what we can offer I think is the opportunity to educate your children in Williamson County Schools we can offer that in the the highest performing uh best school district in the state one of the very most elite systems in the country and even when we've had it as a tuition I I think that's been a bit of a benefit that we can offer because you can still get that without having to live here you have to pay for it it's not as large a benefit but I think we're at the point where that benefit has to get better um and I'm I like what Elliot has said I kind of the out of the the Box thinking about uh bring that down over time but I'm

091also kind of wondering if if that 2000 is still too high a number as well and I and I apologize because I hate to do this to you at a meeting and bring it up and you know kind of have done all the work and go oh about this other number we pull out but it's it's a sizable chunk still that I see and and I also have to ask if we could bring that down to something more manageable if it's a philosophical issue there's kind of the two sides of it it's a philosophical issue that you know you should have to com contribute something towards it [Music] um acknowledge I think there's some logic there to that and that's fine but I think that's something at that amount you compare what portion of the

092salaries that we pay in in lie of being able to pay a more competitive wage where you can live in this community and hopefully Tisa will will take care of some of that um I'm not sure that we're there with that yet um but again the other way to look at it significantly is you know contribute something it's also the point where we're at a breaking point we we have to do something different to get in more of those teachers especially in those slots where it's so gosh darn competitive and we can't fill them and we lose them to other supporting communities so I I am going to ask you to see if we can sharpen that pencil maybe a little bit more um and and try and take that down a little bit further

093even um and let's be honest the politics behind this right now it's close to an election season so I worry a little bit that a lot of the new converts that are are behind this issue suddenly are are not going to be as gung-ho after election day about that so I do want to strike while the iron's hot if everybody's on board and backing it then let's back it right now certainly open to whatever the board brings in in a motion uh I would encourage you to have a conver have conversations with your counterparts uh on the commission um get their opinion and just as a reminder they vote on our budget and the relevant portion to them is the revenue item in the budget they don't have the power to line item our budget

094M uh on the on the expense side and uh in but they do have the power to either accept or reject our our budget so um certainly certainly defer to you all and the wisdom of this Collective body on the tuition but I want to emphasize what I said last month this isn't a revenue issue for us uh the because it's just so relatively insignificant and the and I've heard that say I've heard that confirmed by County leaders I think you've hit the issue very well philosophical question question Mr Brown thank you madam chair um let me just say at the outset I'm I'm of the opinion that we should eliminate this all together you and I have talked about this and um I think I think the time has come for us to do

095that I'm not sure you know I want to I want to be mindful of the discussion and and respect respectful to my colleagues on the board um as we talk through this um both tonight and Monday night but um that's that's where my position that's where I've landed on this is that we it's just time to go ahead and eliminate this um but I have a couple questions that I wanted to put out on the table do you know or can you find out before Monday the number of teachers who are past that fiveyear Mark so so who've been with us for 5 years and are out of County and then what what is the amount they're paying at the fiveyear Mark I know this we have that sliding scale so at five years what

096is a teacher paying yes we can find that out and you're talking the number of teachers using this five year yeah so it's two questions so the question I guess maybe the first question should be how many what is the amount a teacher pays at the 5year Mark gotcha on the sliding scale MH do do we have that ballpark number tonight just can someone pull that out possibly um and then the question for maybe for later that you maybe could send out to us in an email or something before Monday is how many teachers who are currently paying out of count tuition are at or beyond the 5-year Mark where I'm going with that is I'm I'm wondering if as a gesture of good faith to the teachers who are already with us and have

097been paying it I know where you're headed could we eliminate it P if we're not going to eliminate it all together if there's not the appetite to do that could we consider eliminating it for those who've been here 5 years or longer and I realize it's a you know on paper it's a nominal amount it's it's a few hundred bucks or whatever it is whatever you tell me the number is and and ultimately gets down to $200 so in in some sense it's not that much money but it this is really as we've all said it's not about the revenue it's about the gesture and the show of good faith to these teachers so I'm just I want to put that question out there on the table let me ask of course I have the

098I have the total numbers I'm going to look over um at Allison and Rachel just to see if they happen to have that data just just off the an approximate number off the top of their head for the hund if I'm not mistaken 107 or so of our faculty and staff are using it right now how many are past that 5year Mark I don't know the number that's past the five year do you have what's past five I mean I know that the 2310 is what they are currently paying for a five year I know that but I don't know how many employees in the total so at at 5 years it's 2310 at 5 years they're paying 2310 currently currently under your proposal Jason what would that 5year number be 1200 1 12200 okay

099okay so so what we'd be talking about is for whatever number of teachers that is at the 5ye or Beyond Mark yeah they wouldn't pay the 1,200 they go that would go to zero gotcha okay Miss Cleveland well they pretty much said what I was thinking um I like Mr Brown's suggestion and also Mr Mitchell's um I think it does have to we have to do some kind of adjustment to it um it's not about the property taxes I don't think anymore about you know Williamson County people paying property taxes for the schools um I look at is having great teachers that are willing to come in here and teach our kids and I think that's pay enough for them coming in um I don't as far as livability I really I don't look at

100it as being able to afford in Williamson County that's like saying teachers in New York City they don't live probably don't live in New York City live on the outskirts and commute in um it's just the nature of the Beast you know we have a very expensive affluent area to live in um very high rent and people just come in people commute in to another County to another city all the time but I still think we need to have a fair salary a fair competitive salary but I also believe I just I just never heard of paying tuition to go into a county I'm sure there's counties around here somewhere you know in the country that does it but at this point um I know one of the questions were also I think we have

101600 32% teachers are out of County somewhere around 900 about 900 and one of the questions um debates I've had was well what happens if we open up this with no um tuition those 900 teachers are they going to bring their kids into our County I personally don't think that would be the case because if your children are already enrolled in a school somewhere I don't think you're going to pull them out to go to another school just because that's where you work and so I don't think we'll have a problem of overpopulating our schools by eliminating the tuition it just doesn't that's I just can't see a parent doing that saying you're going to go where I'm going to work so you're going to go to this school so I don't think we have

102that worry so I think reducing it and I love the reimbursement plan after 5 years is good and so just some kind of adjustment Mr Cash thank you you uh Nancy you know I've heard a lot of pros and a lot of cons uh I've I've heard that uh this is a little bit too much and whatnot but in all fairness and and dealing with large amounts of people all down through the years um what about the other 2,000 teachers out there that have paid Williamson County taxes all these years high taxes what are the they going to ask for essentially we're giving teachers that live out of the County uh $1,850 a year that's a that's a nice nice amount of money to come back what what are our other teachers going to ask

103for um that's one thing um there's 108 people pay tuition and I know it's hard to move into the county but there's a lot of folks out there like many of those 900 that want to live out of the county many of those jobs out of the county are closer to their work than if they lived in the county you know if you're down on the borders and whatnot um I'd like to see it I'd like to see it go away but um over a a greater period of time we've got teachers 25 30 years in that paid tuition for K through 12 for three and four kids you know in all in all fairness uh I I don't know if it's to to give that big of a reduction I'd like to see us

104gradually reduce it right out and I think the five years would help on that you know once you get your time in but um and then what's going to happen of course that's the County's problem if there folks start asking for the same thing and I know we're paying for our our share of it but they've still got to approve it um yeah that's that's a that's a big amount all at one time um I don't know I don't know I think Sheila uh what Sheila was saying uh I don't think people are just going to up and move but it'd be a great opportunity for folks uh another couple years that'll be gone be a great opportunity for them to move back into the county that's $3800 $3,800 a year um off the you

105know extra in their pocket so I I just again um I just think uh I go along with several others I think it's it's a little too much at one bite and uh we need to look at that Mr Pria I agree with what um Eric and Jay mentioned about I I think we should bring it to the commission and say let's get rid of it and see what they do make it the will of their board so to speak because um if if the majority of us think that it should be eliminated or greatly reduced they can they can negotiate that amongst themselves since they're the ones that have to really approve it and then we can bring it back and vote again so just to give my two cents on what I think

106I think we should try it and see because I I've spoken to County Commissioners and they a lot of them seem to be in favor of eliminating it at this point so I think it is strike while the iron's hot and see what happens Mr Wimberly I think I'm uh having some of the thoughts that Dan is having I mean there's no doubt we need to um do whatever we can to to make sure we have um good Educators it's not only for teachers though is it it be staff all full-time staff okay and I just you know I was just going to remind the board what Dan said remember there's a there's another side to this um but I have to respond to what Jen said I think the idea of reducing it and

107see what the County Commission uh does with it is not a good idea at all because as Jason said they don't have line item veto so they can't say to us you know um we'll approve your budget except for that line but they can't reduce the budget by a certain amount and that amount could be significantly more or less than what this would cost us so I think we have we have to move with caution and I assume that before this came to us that Jason had had uh conversations with the mayor and perhaps some other Commissioners and based on those conversations and what we all need to know what needs to be accomplished this is the recommendation he came up with now the thought of forgiving the tuition I think that that sounds you

108know real interesting to me but it seems like that's something that we can can do later so I I you know I don't like the idea I know you weren't suggesting we play chicken with commission but I think just technically that wouldn't work uh and it may cost us more than than this would would so I'm prepared to support Jason's recommendation I just encourage right at this point and that could change you know before Monday night but I think phasing it in is a better approach but and and you know this as Dan said this is a benefit that would go how many people have we had paying tuition 103 130 something like that I I had toss out7 but it's in that range low hundreds so it's it's it's a benefit that's going to

109a very small percentage of our employees and I don't know that there's I I I just I don't know whether that's right or not honestly and so like Dan I I could I you know I I can support Jason's recommendation and holy moly I'm glad we're talking about this and talking about it in the way that we're talking about it um uh because I think you know as I've said in the past we have violent crean in the room that something like this needs to be done uh otherwise we just compound our teacher challenges uh but the the real thing that needs to be done is pay needs to go up we need to be able to compete and we are working on it but we need to be able to compete with these surrounding

110counties by paying paying you know what they're paying at least if not better how's that for a confusing statement Dan started it we're about to get to second round speaker so I'm I'm going to pop in here and just say um like like Dan I have heard from teachers who um think that you know there should be some reciprocity in this type of benefit if there there's a reduction in tuition for out of County Teachers what type of benefit would would they also receive and so that has been something that you know I raise as a question to us while we're making this decision um you know on on one hand you know um we need to strike while the iron is hot and I we got an email and the email says I feel

111like no one is wanting to take accountability and the board of education is blaming the County Commissioners for the policy and the County Commissioners are saying the board has never asked for a change and so the way I guess the way what I would like to say about that is I think there has been a change and I think that we're trying to work together to address issues with retention of teachers um so I I am very appreciative of the County Commission because I think there has been a change in that position um what from what we've heard over the years and so I think rather than a than a lack of accountability what we're seeing is is a commitment to work together which which is a really good thing so you know we have

112this we have this opportunity we know that some people want it and it would make a big difference we know that other people have said that they feel like if if one group gets this benefit they should get this benefit um we have kind of an environment that is you know receptive to some change here but we're also a strategic policy making body so I guess my question is and what I'd like to hear a little bit about too is you know from maybe from Jason maybe from HR how strategically important do we see this opportunity to reduce or to eliminate tuition I'll speak to that first and Vicki may may want to add to that our number one is taking care of all our faculty and staff I think well I was about to

113say I think we all agree on that but but that that's our number one we've addressed that in our budget The Proposal we have for pay increases is the largest from one year to the next is the largest percentage and largest raw number both in the time I've been here which implies it's the largest raw number ever because obviously we're larger than we ever have been I can't speak to the percentage for sure over the course of you know the last 120 or so years since Williams and County schools has existed that's number one uh there are a lot of other benefits that we offer to everybody that not everybody necessarily uses health insurance is a little different if somebody lives out of County they might not use the the free version because of the

114available providers those kinds of things so many of our benefits do have a different impact on employees depending on their life situation we don't know what kind of an impact this will have uh if we pass it uh there's almost no way to be to be sure because there may be some recruit out there right we'll we'll never be able to definitively nail that down when Vicki presented Staffing information to you a few months ago in one of our administrative reports she emphasized the key point of our pool of candidates shrinking the crisis is coming every year is getting more and more difficult to recruit teachers we're at 99% or so teacher Staffing we actually because of um Esser we were able to add positions in the middle of the Year U for for inter

115uh coaches actually not intervenous I may flip it intervenous not coaches thank you guys uh so at the moment our staffing numbers and ratios for teachers are are are very close to where they've been with those hard-to-fill positions continuing to be a problem but the crisis is coming I do think we need to continue to look at other options we have a great relationship with the WCA Nancy spoke to that um and they have done a really good job of pushing for benefits for everybody uh and I think we'll continue to have that relationship um so Nancy asked in essence to talk about the impact I think was her question uh of this we can't give you anything definitive but every little bit helps because there may be something that affects somebody that might not

116affect somebody else and so it may be that Tipping Point for somebody to make a decision on us I think we've got that now but if it's if if the cost is less that may be a Tipping Point for somebody else um that's that's about the best answer I can give in narrative form uh to the to the question uh Vicki any anything you can add that might be a little bit more specific to that I don't have anything more specific than that I just don't have any data that really indicates um what the result of this would be I can tell you I appreciate you thinking about different ways for to for us to recruit and retain teachers I just don't have I don't have a great feel because like some of you have

117mentioned I've got I get emails um supporting and emails against you know so it's I'm we don't have great data for that I do like the idea of sharpening the pencil I'm going to take one more to to use another metaphor I'll take one more swing uh um hopefully before uh Monday night and uh and and so um Mr Wimberly actually mentioned that Jason's recommendation right now but I will take another swing at it our next speaker is M I appreciate that I think the juice will be worth the squeeze you do that so um your comments Rick brought up another question for me about um what this all means because I really I I guess I'm not clear on if we vote on a motion to do something to the tuition then that just

118becomes a part of our budget for discussions it's not like this just this specific motion goes to the County Commission and they talk just about thank you for that if we make a reduction I I would not recommend at this point that we alter the budget the budget has started the process with the County Commission um Rachel well I'm I'm going to address procedurally thank you thank you so if this is a motion that Rachel and Jason say will would not change our budget then a motion to change it as a resolution could go we could craft it to go to the County Commission as that being the vote just on this yes ma'am okay if and and part of it is going to be and I urge y'all if you have ideas to talk

119to me beforehand so that I can help you craft it um part of it will be whatever the motion is Monday night and who hits the button first I would submit however if it is a zero and we do away with this that would be your vote what are you going to send to the commission if Rachel says that does not change our budget well thank you for that Dana and that really does beg the an ultimate question I have that we may need to talk about before Monday night if it's zero must we change the budget because we do have $310,000 on the revenue side of the budget related to tuition now that tuition is actually a combination of Staff tuition and projected revenue from another part of board policy 1.73 that allows people

120to move in if they have a non-contingent contract move in at the beginning of the school year if they have a non-contingent contract to move in during the school year and you all actually vote on two tuition rates one for for those um who who are committed to moving in but haven't yet they have to pay tuition until they get here uh plus uh um employ employees Rachel a budget is a budget it's an estimate and no category is exactly going to be right however knowing that we would be overstating a budget line you always want to understate revenue understate revenue and overstate your expenses so I would think that we would definitely want to communicate this clearly the County Commission does not vote necessarily on the specific line item so we would have to

121give them them something or we would have to indicate they could come back and say we would like to cut X number of dollars out of your budget related to this and at that point in time we could make that adjustment but if you're wanting um to fully represent what you're trying to say within the budget I would think that we would need to send something to them regardless of how you vote we'll make sure we communicate that to the commission Mr Hall thank you um one one thing I have concern about is voting on this Monday night and still workshopping it maybe up until the moment of a vote and we're talking about an HR benefits cost issue and I know anytime you mess with people's paychecks or what they earn essentially there are

122a lot of opportunities for unintended consequences so I really want to make sure that anything we're brainstorming and come with on the Fly for Monday night that HR has the opportunity to think about all the unintended consequences and it's easy for anybody including County Commissioners to say yes I support this in isolation because who wouldn't want to give these 108 employees a break but you got to think about the staff who would love to do this and have chosen not to or don't fiscally have the means to do so um and would like to say hey if you're doing this suddenly I would have liked to have done that for the last few years so any going back benefits um the staff who have done this for years uh County employees who are also providing

123essential services and would like to take advantage of this I think there are a lot of other dominoes that will fall as a result of this even though I'm very supportive of doing it I think there's wisdom in what Dan said about a phased approach that doesn't have a big potential unintended consequence where we think we're doing something great this is a winner and then there's a lot of people who are really upset about not getting a benefit of this or not having had a previous opportunity to take advantage of a good situation that we are putting in right now um you know just just trying to think about that and so i' I'd be very deferential to an HR perspective that says hey let's tread lightly and and think about this for a B

124um you know just because you know there's there's the cynical saying of no good deed goes unpunished but I wouldn't I wouldn't want to take a victory and turn it into a loss thank you for that and and there is that possibility I I have a visual of an XY AIS with numbers of potential participants and cost I project that with a reduction there will be some increase in numbers but we can't predict that and presumably with the the the more significant the reduction the more numbers because you would hit somebody who feels like they could do it obviously if it's zero that number would be at the highest point on that axis right M um and I appreciate you guys mentioned some of those other items those are some of the discussions we've had

125over the years even with the County Commission um County employees we do currently offer that to County employees who work in the building uh we made that decision years ago that in essence means sro's right uh at the moment we don't have any SRO taken advantage of it but there have been times uh where that's where that's been the case um but might that you know be an issue for other County Employees maybe Mr Welch I think you were cheating off my paper Casey unintended consquences right here um I don't want to so I won't rehash everything um I I just but I do want to say I think we're talking about two different things here and we need to focus on what's the more important of the two in one half we're talking about

126sort of the fairness issue and and that matters can you speak more yeah I'm sorry that better so uh as I saying I I think we're talking about two different things here and we need to focus on the one that really matters and and one one of those is the fairness issue which is important uh we want to be fair to to everyone in as much as we can you know you tell child life isn't fair get over it uh but um that I don't think that's the focus on this one I think what we really need to be focused on is what's the community good and what is the the need to you know one to take care of our staff but also um is the schools we it's the foundation of Williamson County

127it's why people are here it's why you know the home values are high why the unemployment is low everything is is built upon that public school system and we are starting to see cracks in in that foundation with just not being able to keep and retain the teachers and we've got to do something about that so I for me at least that's the thing to focus on and this really is a way that that we can beat some of those other districts who we can can't always compete with on on salaries so I think that's what we need to look at and then um to your point at the unattended consequences yes it is 108 but it's 108 at 3850 um that's a sizable chunk of change if if you're a teacher making 60,000 a

128year before taxes you know that's a that's a big chunk of your your take home pay uh after taxes to pay that a much so what does that number jump to from 350 to 2,000 or at a th000 or at zero I I think we're going to see a significant growth as you you said you know I I don't know what the price elasticity of a a Williamson County education is but the audience here that the buyer in this case is is a Williamson County teacher so it's probably a pretty valuable thing um and not a a gen pop that we're trying to figure out where where that elasticity curve is in it um the other thing with that last St I think we're going to see is an increase in the number of out

129of count teachers because it is a new benefit and I also think we could see an exodus of teachers going out of the county because of it with that that a lot of teachers who are living here so they can send their their children here who maybe got in early will now look in and how many of us have said or heard someone who said boy I can't believe how much my house is worth right now I would love to cash out but where the heck am I going to go well if you're teacher you go I jump across the county line that's where I go I I cash out because I can still send my kids to that system so I I I want to give you time when I said I want you

130to sharpen fence and look at it but I also want to give you time to to evaluate all those things and I don't think we should jump uh too fast with it allow you to come back and sort of give you that feedback of are are you sure Mr Goan are you sure that's the we can't get down closer but also make sure that you are sure with it um and and for the zoning I'm going to respectfully disagree a little bit of that I see it also does have the potential to do that because of all of those things maybe not overnight but over the course of a couple years as we talk about growing our teachers that are out of County based because of the benefits they have or move as they do

131stick with us because now that they have that benefit stick around a little bit longer so new ones come in I can see that having a zoning impact um especially because it's based not on your your Zone District but where that teacher actually works in that case so um if we can take the zero I think it'd be awesome I would be for that but I want to make sure it makes sense to to take that to zero right away and I want to make sure it doesn't make sense that maybe there's a an intermediate step or there's a better step that that we have to do so I I I'm on board with what Dan has said mostly I I not all the way getting there but but I think it's uh we're pretty

132much saying the same thing let's not jump too fast and let's make sure we're doing the right things here thank you all we have four more speakers on this topic and this is the second round Mr galberth thank you I just want to make sure um I had quick question of the 108 full-time employees do we know how many of those are teachers versus not sorry 91 um teachers for WCS and then 17 classified as 108 it's 138 students 108 employees gotcha um so I just want to make sure so we're definitely not just talking about teachers and and some of our hardest um some of our hardest defined positions or Tas in places um special edas in particular um and I know and I know we want to pay everybody more and and not

133one of us doesn't want to pay our teachers more and we we all know the budgetary rest you know just restrictions and restraints that we have on us and so this isn't just about pay it's about Recruitment and Retention and a recognition that we're even for our teachers um our pay is not hasn't and even with the increases isn't getting close to keeping Pace with the inflation on housing and so if it even if we try to keep up to Rick's point to try to keep up with the pay of the pay increases of the of the districts surrounding us um we are going to be woefully under if we're trying to keep up with the inflation of of housing prices and so looking at this Middle Tennessee is kind of a um it's a

134global economy right so we have we got half half of our residents work out of the county and half of our workers live out of the county and so um to the to I guess to the fact that our teachers are 30% you know or 70% in County I bet our classified employees are the percentage is much less and so this this has to be a um a recruitment and retention policy going forward um I don't think we can I don't think we can continue to staff without it and just and think about it not just from a teacher perspective but from all of our other positions um and I just I think that uh I don't I don't think there's much downside I've heard the potential flaws and downsides of of reducing this to

135zero and making it I just don't think the the push back from the people who have had to pay it to this point um outweighs the the benefit of being able to offer this as a benefit and looking at that um rather than just oh you have to pay less tuition Now versus you get to come here for for free so um I'm really in favor of of reducing it to Zero thanks Mr Mitchell thank you madam chair um this is an annual cost right not a semester cost that's right it's annual family not annual student so um one of the benefits I think that teachers have today correct me if I'm wrong is that they have the right to take CH the their children to their school that's right and actually their feeder pattern

136for that matter to catch a bus they can take if they're an elementary teacher they can take their middle school or high school students to school with them to catch a bus onto to the feeder School correct so if if a bus is available then then yes so so I mean that's that is a benefit that that teachers have today is that they they get to their children get to go at a Zone uh if they so desire right and it works um so the to the to the point of Dan to the point of saying the teachers that say well what is the Ben how do how do what is this how does this benefit me I've already paid the tuition my children are or or or I I've already paid the tuition their

137their benefit is to Eric's point they get to move out of the county if they want to they can sell their Williamson County house and move out of the county and their kids can still come to the school so so to say that that this is only a benefit that is coming to new teachers and existing teachers wouldn't have it or wouldn't benefit from it that there is a benefit there that they're no longer Tethered to will living in Williamson County strictly for the benefit of their children attending and I think that I don't know that that our goal is necessary necessarily from a from a recruitment standpoint I don't think we have a preference over in-county versus out of- County Teachers I think it's about quality of the teacher isn't it you're right about

138that let's put that one to bed if that that's the first I'd ever heard of that the answer is no that is not isue so so we're we're looking for the best employee that we can get and if and if offering up the opportunity to bring their child or children into to into the district that they're teaching at then that's I mean that's really I again I see it as a recruitment item and and I'll I continue um the other question is I had down here is it does change the budget if we take this to zero I don't know how we how you don't admin your budget to from that standpoint I think you're the way we did it have done it before is you is basically through a memo where we're reporting to

139the county come up with that and the second point is I don't I'm confused Dana what would we what would we at how would we structure this to give the County Commission something to vote on would it just be couldn't be a resolution really or it would strictly be cuz cuz this is not a policy they have any authority over to write or or it depends on how what the I go back to what I said earlier it depends on how you make the motion and tonight I've heard about seven different possibilities well well the only thing the count from my standpoint and I'll ask you to explain it again then from my standpoint the only thing the County Commission gets to vote on is the dollars they don't get to vote on the budget

140as a correct what I keep hearing from several board members though is that you're wanting the commission to vote on this yeah I I'm hearing that too but my point is that there's really nothing I don't believe there's a mechanism for us to go to the County Commission and say give me your concurrence via a vote well one one one one possibility I'm just brainstorm sure is if if there and I'm not recommending this but if there was a motion to ask the the the County Commission to to to approve the budget with an you know amended on the fly on their own that there's a possibility of that I see where they could take they could reduce the budget by a certain amount assuming at the same amount then that would that would give

141kind of an implicit indication but that's really kind of asking a lot I think of from my standpoint I guess I'll get to the Point here it's our decision to make yes and and for us to think we need to go ask them for permission I think is a little bit beyond it and and I'll I'll make the point the last point to that you know we've gone from 10,000 students to what 40,000 42 42,000 so we're a lot bigger District now than we used to be and so the concept of of giving employees out of County Employees free tuition into the district is a lot different in a I I believe in a 10,000 student District where you're only having a few hundred teachers versus a 43,000 student District where you're talking thousands of

142teachers right I I I think that there's a difference there and and again I I will work with Dana to craft an amendment that puts something together I'd like to get your feedback about using it is a retention effect where you get five you pay for the first five years if you're if you with us at five years it gets refunded and then from there on it's it's free and and that way we can take it to zero without without affecting the budget initially and we can also provide us a we can address the point that Vicki had said previously that our largest turnover is in the first few years of of teaching assuming those are the teachers that are bringing the young children in I guess maybe not but all right thank you Miss

143Cleveland okay um I'm having a hard time with the definition of benefit because I think it is all about retention and the reason I say this and and and the word fairness um out of all the teachers we have what 108 um WS teachers that are on this program so when we're talking say we just brought it down to zero and I'm just kind of thinking out loud now we brought it down to zero and the fairness would come in on those people who've already paid but if starting now we went to zero then you're just talking about say a teacher earns $40,000 you got two teachers that earn $40,000 a year if the tuition were in effect it would be one teacher would be paying 38,000 or income would be 38 the other one

144would be 40 if we drop that 2,000 they would be even so I don't see where the fairness is in fact the person the teacher living whims and County probably has more of a benefit because they're not commuting and there's more expenses for that teachers coming from in so I I don't see where the word benefit comes in it just it just means you know it's a tuition period I don't know where there's a benefit it's just the person who gets their kids coming to Williams County they're paying a tuition that's not a benefit they're paying tuition am I looking at this right I mean it just it's it's not about a benefit as it is about you know just a salary and you get a salary reduction if you bring your kids in for

145the tuition the $2,000 but if you don't have that then you're both earning the same amount of pay I I think you're emphasizing that a lot of people would look at it differently depending on their perspective and that's one perspective another one might look at it as an expense you know so so I think that certainly some might look at it that way yeah okay that's all Mr Cash um just just real quick uh I just know from experience that if you're gonna if you're going to give someone $2,000 a $22,000 reduction that's $2,000 in their pocket there's going to be people that don't like it and that are going to ask for something or want something take take it for what it is I'm all for helping out getting our students you know our

146teachers uh children in here or whatever but that's just a fact we're all going to have to look at and you're going to hear about it uh one way or the other whether people go around and are just more disgusted or whatever um the 50% reduction in the first 5 years has been a fact for many many years in the school system when it comes to education teachers are very well educated they get in the field they feel like they can't handle kids and and all the other stuff that goes along with it and they go out they become high paid salese and whatnot they've got the education and everything so that's a normal thing um 50% less teachers go into college that's not all about money teaching is a calling and that's why I

147appreciate our teachers so much because they're called to this but 50% reduction going to college there's many other issues going on with teachers and that's one reason we we do need a a an autonomous survey and I know we were talking about that and you're talking about extra money some of that needs to go to for that because I feel like teachers deserve that thank you um other than that whatever you know what I really want to do um like Elliott said we don't have to go to the County Commission um and Eric Eric said it I think a lot of this politically driven right now so maybe it's ripe to do something but uh whatever I'm just throwing that out there thank you we have two more speakers and that will mean that everyone

148has spoken twice so I would propose that maybe we kind of summarize after that point um okay uh Mr Wimberly first of all good luck summarizing this discussion to me I mean I think I've set through this discussion probably be the 10th time although I don't think I've ever set through it when we had the opening that we have with the the mayor and the County Commission so I think that's a good thing but one thing is clear we're not ready to vote on this like like Dana said you know we probably have seven different opinions about how this could occur and I you know we' like to have consensus before we get to a board meeting and I you know what whether we I I I don't believe we have to always do that

149but in this case it's kind of what KC said we'll be workshopping it on the floor and so I I think we got to do something else besides taking this to a vote on on Monday I think you know because you know I I think I've been the only one who has said I will support Jason's proposal and then he's already said he's going to change it so well you you impli I could I don't know make that eight possibilities do you have a suggestion no I really don't for I don't mean for the proposal I mean for how to well eliminate the workshop can certainly defer it um maybe we need a workshop maybe we need to meet specifically on this or we can continue working tonight until you know we seem to have

150you know seven people is it seven no yeah seven people who want to go in a specific Direction and I don't think we have that right now I I mean I may be reading the room wrong but I don't think so so I think it's almost got to be one of these things we just defer it another month we have a special it doesn't have to be a I guess it has to be a workshop or uh a work session or we just hunker down and continue working on it until we get to the point where we can have a vote we don't have to all agree on it but we're not even close Mr Brown I wasn't going to say this wasn't what I got called on but I'm going to in response to

151what you're saying it's it strikes me as funny that we're spending more time on a $300,000 line item than we did on a $460 million budget you mean in the meeting well I mean in the work session I mean we're we're spending potentially more time on this a $300,000 line item than we did almost than we did on the entire $46 million budget itself well which okay I'm going to sign up and I'm gon to I which is which is kind of interesting to me for a lot of reasons but I think it I mean I I'm speaking for myself here too and to myself I think we're overthinking a little bit the dollar amounts here um I mean Jason's already come in saying let's go down to 2,000 that might be a starting point

152or you know or something above 2,000 something below 2,000 but we're talking about hundreds of dollars per teacher here not okay so let's start with that premise um whichever way we go um if we do nothing I mean I don't think there's any appetite necessarily for doing nothing but to do something means we're we're talking about hundreds of dollars either way is kind of what we're what an amount wants to um I think we're overthinking that I mean this is not about the dollars we've all agreed this is not about the money this is about the principle of and the message that we're sending about retention recruitment gestures to our teachers gestures to our staff whatever it is so uh I wouldn't be in favor of deferring it I think this is kicking the can

153down the road on something that's really fairly um straightforward um in my opinion but one question I would have about the process on the budget Jason historical perspective if you don't mind how many times in your experience with the budget going to the County Commission has it come back intact so with no changes we've had better luck recently uh the last few years okay I've been I've been here through 17 budgets I'm going to estimate I'm going to estimate that we've had the operational budget come back intact maybe 12 of those 17 you remember well I'm I'm going to mention the the capital budget the capital budget almost every year something's gotten cut um almost maybe to your point maybe all but one year we made it through with everything Capital every year Capital just

154about every year to have operational one time where we had the issue with the uh nurses reduction so Rachel I'm trying to get yeah I don't know the answer to that yeah Dana you may have some recul last seven years we have it has been the the operational budget has gone forward the issues been the tax rate um property tax rate but the budget itself been voted on the capital budget almost every year has been tiut but how many times have it does it have to go back to department heads before it gets there well yeah the the reality is because of communication with County Administration because of of the of the mayor setting parameters and standards we've done a lot of that work and especially in the last few years um on the on

155the front end and brought something that that they could live with um so I you I did the 12 out of 17 thank you for that day in the last seven years our our operational budget has passed um yes as pres as presented that's right when you say the capital budget though you're talking about our our Capital like the for it and and that's correct right like by and large like I can't over the last seven well especially five years our our all all of our Capital requests have been granted like just not not budgetary but like all of our building requests like I can't I can't remember one that's been even deferred after after Nolanville I can't think of one that's been really deferred we've asked for except for the fields the ball fields

156have been have been deferred it's been some of the middle school that that stretched out the Middle School theater stretched out a little bit longer than we expected yes it was it's been better and probably The Last 5 Years but initially seven years ago things were still being deferred agreed I guess I guess where I'm going with that question is that if if what we're talking about is at most if we go with your recommendation or something around your recommendation Jason we're we're talking about at most a $200,000 variance off the propo the budget we're proposing or that we have already proposed to the County Commission it just if there were historical patterns of them coming back and drastically altering our budget I would I would maybe worry that that would be we'd be at

157risk of that happening here it sounds like there's no precedent really for that at least recently so unless there's just some real bur in their saddle about us doing something they didn't want us to do I can't I can't imagine that reaction happening and I think we've all we've all alluded to County Commissioners making comments we probably all have spoken to different ones of them individually about this and there seems to be a sensibility about this now that there hasn't maybe been in the past so I just think it's we're on pretty solid ground in taking this forward and sending a memo to them or taking an action that they they become aware of and they have to adjust the budget accordingly however are we procedurally do it um so anyway thisjust on the revenue

158side which may be viewed a little bit differently than a done an expense side but it's not Revenue tied to taxation it's it's Revenue tied to internal uh an internal HR policy so right right um tax yeah so um just so I I will be the this will be my second time to speak so here you know here we've all completed two times so so um a couple of things um I agree that we've had a long discussion for the size of this budget item but one of the things that is different with this process and you mentioned the budget and how much time we spent on that I want to make sure that we make a point in these public meetings to clarify some things to the public when they when they may not

159be obvious from our comments um this is a small item but we're just getting it tonight as opposed to the budget that it's our responsibility as board members to work on and to review and to ask questions and to spend a lot of time reviewing and come to the meeting prepared so that we can ask those questions and can pass the budget so the situations are a little bit different um just want to address that because I want the public to know that this board does its work and does its student diligence um but regarding regarding this whole discussion and board this has been a very collaborative but long discussion I appreciate everybody's collaboration we've heard lots of different viewpoints I I guess what I would suggest um is uh Jason if you if you

160would think about this and think about if if you think we are ready to move forward give us a recommendation tomorrow whether you think that um we'll have time to vote on this by Monday night uh and if not you know then suggest if you want us to push it to a May discussion um and also you know based on everything you've heard tonight you know can you give us a revised recommendation in that time frame thank you for that I'll tell you all two things number one as your chief executive because of this discussion tonight I'm going to be comfortable taking to to the county whatever you vote on because of the depth of this discussion whatever I have a lot of respect for the discussion we've had tonight second I will go back

161and look to see if there are some additional items we can work on off this this proposal I had here uh to to make a change um I can't commit to being tomorrow um may be Monday okay but but I I will start my conversations tomorrow okay there may you know there may be some maybe even some weekend phone calls I just don't know that's right tomorrow's a holiday well it's not I will say it's not it's not because of the holiday it's because of just the just the the depth of this discussion it really gets back to Rick's comment about it uh also two months ago this passed with brief con conversation things have changed and things changed quickly you know we talk about the issue of the day the issue of the week

162I'm I'm taking into account that is that that element of it as well thank you I think we can move to our next item which is the approval of Phil the facilities use fee schedule board policy 3.26 an annual agenda item Mr golden thank you madam chair uh we uh bring to you every year of course the uh facilities use fee schedule we recommending one change this year it's a dollar an hour incre increase for the facility supervisor to parallel your vote for u a couple of months ago for the doll an hour increase in classified pay everything else stays the same just from a quick uh review perspective a few years ago we brought a proposal to you to um start charging for exterior to cover custodial Etc you were very clear at that

163time or the board at sitting then was very clear at that time that that was not what you wanted we do not we are not proposing that this is exclusively for interior work any questions I see no questions then we can move on to the board policies for first reading Miss OS Brooks yes the first policy is 4.6 this is a a report cards and grading system and it is a first reading the changes um change on page two we are adding in the weighted GR Es as well as the GPA calculation for High School courses a preap course I believe that's going to be at Ravenwood high school and um so you will see that weighted grave grade will be the same as an honors course um and get the weight as well as

164the GPA calculation that is the only change on this policy any questions I don't see any questions okay the next policy for first reading is the credit requirements for graduation uh policy 4.6 051 on page two of that policy uh lines 11 and 12 you will see that um while a waver for Fine Arts um is allowable we are asking and we have had that waiver in the past it is not been utilized and we are asking that the Fine Arts waiver requirement uh be removed from policy so that the only waiver um under this category would be for World Language and the um other change is on page four under online courses um and that is that with enrollment and online courses the meet with the Stu school counselor and taking those courses should

165be approved by the principal or design prior to enrolling in those courses and then also line six and seven online courses will be entered on the high school transcript and here's the change using the same letter grade and GPA assigned by the institution awarding the credit previously it has been a past fail um but we have determined with scholarships um that we need to change that to we recommend changing that to a letter grade um and GPA assigned and this would be somebody moving either from a different state or even within the state of Tennessee and so that those that is the last change on this policy I don't see any questions Miss OS Brooks okay and the last policy for first reading is a zero tolerance policy I will tell you the change first

166and then I'll tell you a little bit of the discussion that we had at the policy meeting the change that is recommended is on page three um with our discipline hearing Authority uh the languag is to include if there's a student with an i iup or 504 plan that the student Support Services director must attend um we would like to have that be the student support service director or design um Andor design so that we have someone with an administer license and um special education license as a member of the discipline hearing Authority so that's the staff recommended change when we talked about this policy during the policy meeting um board member also wanted to look at under zero tolerance offenses the alcohol portion so I am working on some wording um that will address

167probably some situations that have come to light in the past um that could come to light in the future so at second reading we I will present that I'll have it ready for policy in May um and specific I don't I don't know if the board member wants to address that or you want me to I I'll are yall good okay okay so then that that is um those three for first reading will um would ask for um approval and then they would come back in May for second reading thank you Miss osbs next item on the agenda is the founders Charter School application Mr golden thank you madam chair uh the committee reviewed the uh application of Founders Classical Academy K12 uh Charter based on state law Dr Webb is here uh she chaired

168the uh committee I've asked her to give you an outline of the the review and conclusions and also want to refer you to the memo uh that's in there want to make sure that we're clear that uh that the uh committee is recommending that you do not approve the application Dr Webb all right thank you Mr Golden it was a pleasure to work with the committee that you all nominated back in January uh following board policy 1.91 in regards to reviewing Charter School applications to Williamson County schools and we have uh concluded our work in reviewing the Founders Classical Academy Charter School application uh this is a K12 application that we received with a classical approach uh to educating our students and it was requesting to open in 2023 and just as a reminder I

169know that the board's been briefed on the application process but uh the state has a very thorough application that anyone requesting to be a charter uh in the state of Tennessee uh should follow and complete corresponding with that there is a gring rubric that mirrors those same uh 30 um subsections with great detail that anyone um any board that is reviewing a charter school application should use that rubric in making their final determination so as a reminder the committee uh that you approved back in January with 14 members uh I led their work and I'm going to give you a little bit of an overview of of their work that and the timeline that they followed this Committee of course represented not only community members a board member representative but also several members of our

170um central office staff with various expertise and academics operations and finance which were the three major categories of the application so we started our work uh back in February the application was due to be received by Williamson County schools for consideration the for this review by February 1st which we did receive uh for this Founders application so we began our work on February 4th and that first um meeting really was an orientation to our work as described in policy so we spent an hour just talking about our timeline and reviewing the process that we would follow in accordance with the state uh we began by an application review after that point each Committee Member each of the 14 members were asked to review the application in independently um with depth in addition to reviewing the

171rubric that we would be using uh according to the state guidelines to review the application when we came together in our first uh big session in the morning of the 17th um we divided into three subgroups uh academics operations and finance which those are the three major categories of the application to do a deep dive by committee into each section of the application uh so we did that that had follow-up sessions as appropriate in the beginning on February 22nd each subsection committee um did share outs about their analysis as a subcommittee uh after their initial review and their analysis using the rubric so we did that for uh two sessions and then came together uh to review our summaries uh as a whole and identify what are those remaining questions that we have as individuals

172on the committee and by subsection so uh on the March seventh uh session we created uh questions that we would like to ask the applicant and we did that in a zoom interview on March the 10th we had an hour and a half session uh with the applicant which was very helpful uh we were able to dive deep into the questions that we had remaining from the application again into those three major categories of academics operations and finance uh after our interview with the committee or with the uh applicant uh we met again to identify what are those remaining questions that we still had after the interview had taken place our committees and subcommittees and individuals submitted five pages of questions that we still had remaining for the applicant and so we communicated back with

173them and sent those questions to them to review uh we asked that they spend a couple weeks any missing sections from the application that we identified in our interview give them the opportunity to give us feedback answer those questions and and they absolutely did that and gave us some feedback to review so on March 2 um 4th we came back together we reviewed first initially the feedback from um the applicant um their responses to the questions and additional information that they gave that we broke back into those same subcommittees um to determine those questions that we still had those depth of questions were they answered how did we feel that they met um the indicators of our state rubric and identifying uh those pieces of their application uh so at that point we did uh

174share out uh feedback from each individual committee and then began our individual uh rubric uh reviews of the application so you'll see in your board packet all 14 committees uh committee members submitted their detailed um analysis using the rubric uh for you to see so on uh April 1st we did a Q&A for the rubric and then we did our final review and then ultimately every individual submitted their um analysis of the rubric to me individually and then I compiled those results uh to share with you tonight so here's the process so the scoring application again goes through for the committee 33 different subsections of the application asking us to use that state rubric to do an in-depth analysis of the application that correlates of course and uh there was one indicator summary at the

175end of each of those three so as uh a Committee Member they would review all the sections of academics as an example and then make the ultimate decision at the end of academics of whether or not they felt the entire um section of academics was mat or instruction the same for uh operations and the same for finance so a total of 33 different indicators that they evaluated for each of those indicators the state lays out these choices either they meet or exceed the standard partially meets the standard or doesn't meet the standard at all and so that's the analysis that we did on those 33 indicators again 30 core indicators and then one summary indicator for each of those categories of course we followed um our state guidance uh as well as our local board

176policy but uh 6111 uh is the state board policy the charter authorizing standard uh that we followed when uh doing our evaluation so ultimately the ask of the state when we follow this process is to make recommendations for approval or denial based on the application um the uh attachments uh that they sent the interview the follow-up questions so all of those things were taken into consideration uh when final scoring the charter application so I'm going to go Section by section and just give you the overall feedback the identify for you the sections of that uh portion of the application and some general feedback from our committee the academic plan and design capacity uh committee um we have a representative here miss lorett Carl um was a spokesman for that committee and so she's here to

177answer any questions uh and as well as myself at the end of of this section if we need to the indicators are listed on the left I know this is a lot of feedback for one slide but as I spoke speak about it I did want you to be able to see all the information holistically so on the left you'll see all those academic indicators that the applicant was asked to address uh in the application itself and we were asked to score using that rubric of does it meet uh or exceed uh does it partially meet that standard or does it not made it at all after evaluation of this full indicator um of our 14 uh individual rubrics 11 of those rubrics indicated that uh they did not believe that this application met the

178state standards that were identified uh in the rubric itself with three individuals feeling that it partially met and again those are the indicators on the left so 21% felt like it partially met uh 79% of us felt like it didn't me it at all and no one on the committee felt like that it met or exceeded the state expectations as identified in the rubric some of the feedback that the committee had on this section really fell into two major categories but of course of course you can see all of the detail in those attachments of the individual rubrics that we put in your packet the first big theme of feedback that we had is that the application lacked correlation to Tennessee state standards Tennessee laws and imple implementation within Tennessee specifically uh just the detail

179itself was really referencing in many places other states um and lack to take into consideration uh the expectations within uh Tennessee and our follow-up interview question s um and our follow-up written questions that we submitted we did ask some clarifying questions uh to that point but again uh the feedback did indicate that um the specifity of Tennessee was not taken into consideration during the application process there was also a lack of specifics on the uh targeted student population Williamson County student learning needs and how they would close any indicated achievement gaps for our own student population again the references uh were not specific enough to meet the indications of the rubric so all in all the committee recommendation for this section of the application was it does not meet the state standard uh for recommending

180approval section two is Operation plan and capacity Mark Samuels is here he was a representative um that uh spoke on behalf of this subcommittee uh as we went through the evaluation process the indicators are listed for you on the left that this section of the application addressed 100% of the committee or all 14 individuals felt that this section of the rubric did not meet State expectations uh as far as meeting the um the expectations indicated in the rubric the general feedback is the plan in general La specific and some uh spec spec excuse me lack specifics and some sections or attachments were left blank completely uh there was a lack of defined facility space for the need of the needs of the school and activities there was a heavy Reliance on outside organizations to solve

181facility shortfalls um without uh specifics to indicate how they would do that there was no reliable or robust Transportation Food Service nursing or it Network plans uh no awareness of waivers or request for waivers that would be required in Tennessee to match Tennessee law um or Tennessee standards uh and they there was no robust plan to indicate how Tennessee law or Tennessee standards would be met the fallback facility locations were inadequate for the scope of the school plan uh and there were omissions and confusions within the non-discrimination statements outlined in the application so in all the committee did not um feel that the application met the state standards for this section of the application and for the third section and final section of the application it was the financial plan and capacity um Miss Vicki

182Robins is here as a spokesman for this subcommittee um for the review a little less on the indicator side was pretty to the point Charter School financing and network Finance plans were the major sections of this um subsection overall of the 14 individuals who um worked on this committee 13 felt that it did not meet the standards of the rubric and one individual felt that it did uh there was no one who felt like it had um met partially the feedback uh in general was that responsive ed will be the charter management organization and financial statements were included which demonstrated a strong financial position in Texas and Arkansas but not in Tennessee the budget appeared incomplete and missing details required for the in-depth evaluation as prescribed by the rubric uh the facility budget was not

183realistic um in its explanation the network budget was vastly lower compared to what it would cost an our experience in Williamson County schools for the equivalent of one school um to be to be funded the interview responses did not resolve concerns about the lack of sufficient startup funds or the facility or operational needs and the source of philanthropy was identified uh during no Source rather uh during the interview process which again left questions to be unanswered overall the feedback of the committee using the standards from the state rubric was that uh this section of the uh application uh did not meet the standards so overall with those three uh major sections of the application um unanimously the 14 members of this committee felt that the application does not meet the state standards and so of

184course we use the state process uh to evaluate um and again as a reminder the rubric uh that we were charged to use in evaluating the application matched those same standards and indicators that the applicant had at the time of application uh so that it did correlate um and that's the feedback from the group I know that we provided additional documents uh in our board packet for you but I as well as those three uh spokesman for the subcommittees uh welcome any questions that you may have in regards to our recommendation Mr Brown thank you for that readout that was very helpful and I I did read through the documents um which was really interesting um two questions you know on a on a 100% scale how much how much what percentage of would you

185say of the review process involves subjectivity versus objectivity where where there's pure yes or no on something objectively and then where other otherwise where you have discretion to give your opinion or your professional judgment on something that's a great question the application itself was very specific and the rubric R is very specific um if you pull up as an example any one of the 14 um rubrics you'll see at the very top it's very specific of what it asks for um is anytime you're judging with a rubric is there some subjectivity I would I would Grant yes there are there is subjectivity anytime you're looking at a rubric and making an interpretation however the specific detail that this rubric asks for is just that it's specific and very detailed um we the feedback from the

186committee members and I didn't hear any feedback that indicated that anyone struggled in identifying whether that standard was met or not met uh in most instances it was it was clear that it doesn't because it's it simply isn't there for us to review or the rubric calls for very specific uh IND very uh specific indications that the applicant has considered that you know certain details of academics operations or finance and it simply didn't exist okay thank you and second question is can you remind us how many of the committee members had to score it as meeting or exceeding in order for the entire section to be deemed meeting or exceeding so each of the there are 30 indicators throughout the rubric at the end of each section each individual had to assess and indicate whether

187they believed that section was met or exceeded or met partially met or didn't meet um there were it was it was not a all what you're you're reading here is exactly what their responses were but if it helps you to understand all of to see in one place I did put it in a spreadsheet so that you can see each and every subsection and everyone's score so this is raw data it isn't um it isn't a formula I guess is what I'm trying to say but so there's not a a number of if if x number of people on the committee had said it meets or exceeds then it then that section is deemed to have met or exceeded there's not a a certain number of people who would have had to do that in

188order for it to qualify I mean clearly with these numbers it's not anywhere close to qualifying it's it's not close but if if it were more than half then does that then then it potentially could so in the um state law and in our board policy there is not a um number of a a set number of committee members there are certain commun uh community members or you there's certain facets that have to be met and so with that since there's not a set number of members that numberers always going to change does that so if if I may Mr Brown Can I ask a followup of Dana to for for to try to get some clarity so Dana is there a is there a percentage standard that would trigger a pass more than half

189a certain percentage under the state law no I'm going to double check the rubric but I don't recall that being a part of the rubric I think that's what I'm getting at is for for future reference I mean this is clearly skewed one you know drastically one way in the scoring but um if if we were to be presented with something in the future where we're you know a split vote if you will or if 60% of the committee members were marking it as meet or exceed do we have a something in place that allows us to say that that deems it to be to pass and versus failing and thus triggers a recommendation in favor of that that kind of thing because I don't I'm just wondering you know if we if there's something

190concrete that we go by on that I think that's worth us double checking I I I've read this nothing strikes comes to mind but I have not been studying this to the extent you so no to answer your question no there is not there's not anything set out in state law there's not anything set out on this year's Tennessee Charter School application evaluation rating which is which is what we used okay so in theory in just underscore in theory if 80% of the committee could recommend that or could say that it meets or exceeds but there could still be a recommendation against in theory in theory but but I think a wise question would be when that situation were to arise I would ask as a board member if the committee didn't present it to

191ask to see the feedback on each and every indicator which in this case I can certainly provide to you guys so that you can see if the committee is recommending not to approve then you can see as a board that 80% as an example of the rubrics met or exceeded however it it was not the uh consensus of the committee to make that recommendation I would ask to see that as as a board uh if that were the case and I can certainly provide that to you all in full transparency it's the same information that you see on the rubric but it's compiled in spreadsheet format which is a little easier to read right okay thank you yes sir Mr Hall I just want to well I just want to say thank you to the

192committee for uh this represents hundreds of Collective hours in a very compressed timeline that is not of your choosing so thank you all for that um I think this is a great visual summary of the the findings of the committee as well it's really helpful to see it in this format so thank you thank you any other questions one comment thank you Dr we for your presentation and to the committee again I I want to parallel what uh what Mr Hall said um thank you for the work Mr galath you you raised your hand but I was going to I was going to call on you anyway as our as our representative did you have a did you have a question that you wanted to ask or no I just I just felt like it

193would be great to hear your feedback on process no I was I was going to wait till after the questions but um I did have one thing for for Dana just on process-wise um if you could explain what happens from from here we'll we'll we'll vote and then appeals and how that works absolutely so um you will see attached to the board packet Monday night will be a resolution um you have a draft resolution and that resolution W will be what you vote on um either to in the way that the resolution is worded is uh to accept the um recommendation of the charter school Review Committee and deny the application once uh the once the application is voted on um if you vote to deny it then the next process is that a letter

194is sent to the applicant outlining everything that is um deficient and the reasons why the application was denied so it's a lengthy letter there is not a time limit for um set out in statute for us to get that letter but obviously we want to you know move forward after the letter is sent the applicant then has 30 days to resubmit that application so um the applicant could choose to send in a new application um after that if that happens after that 30 days then um the board you've got 60 days to 60 calendar days either to deny or to approve that amended application and so obviously the work that this committee has done will be very helpful if there is an amended application to show here was the deficit and here's how they're going

195to um work on that deficit or here is a new plan um you would once again get a recommendation from the committee it won't look exactly the same but that work um they'll go back through the resubmitted application um and then if it is denied Again by this board within 10 calendar days of that final denial the applicant can appeal um with the Tennessee Charter School commission is that that's exactly what thank you um so I just want to thank thank Lee and Mark and Julie and Vicky um for for heading up this whole thing and for um for Mark and Vicky for um for really helping out with their respective um areas um and and so it was good to it was it was good to see everybody in action um I I just

196want to speak to kind of the lopsided nature of of of this application in in general and I and I think it it would be easy to um it would be easy to point out and and say well y'all are this was never going to happen this is the way you would um what what you would expect of course you don't want Charters and so you're G to deny it that it that really couldn't be further from from reality um and how everybody just from hearing in the discussions and hearing um and knowing what we looked at um if you'll remember there were um there were two applications that they came across we we did initial reviews on one and we were about to do the review for the second one and we were in

197the middle of a meeting and we got a call that said we we got the that that second application had been withdrawn so we got to cut our meeting short and we luckily we we had reviewed the the this one first um but the um the applications couldn't have been more different and um and so like we were we were operating we were looking at this one but we we had seen the other one and so we we had a we had a frame of reference so we got the opportunity to look at two um and kind of compare and contrast as we were going through um and and the this this was this application wasn't nearly to the um up to par from my perspective and and um I think from from all of

198our discussions um in so many ways not to not to say we we never got to the point of grading the other one so I can't say where it would have been um but there were there were vast differences and so um and and this one just really really fell short so I'm I'm comfortable with the uh with the committee's recommendation I don't see any other questions Dr Webb thank you our next item is uh the approval to dis to close Discovery virtual K8 for the 2223 school year Mr golden thank you madam chair uh as you see from the m in the way you describe this particular item I am recommending that you vote to close Discovery virtual which is our K8 School two years ago we started our online program and last year

199the state altered their regulations and that in essence told us that if a student was going to be in a virtual setting full-time we needed a school at that time we anticipated enough interest to to justify the school and we did that when this school year started we had 400 I'm sorry 343 students into first month that was a little bit less than the start uh of the school year but at the end of those four weeks uh we still had 343 Dr Miller went through the reapplication process we published a a story about it on uh um in in our in focus and the numbers dropped by 75% in one year and I there there's some good people who still want this school the difficulty we have is that ranges from three at a

200couple of grade levels to a maximum of 17 at a middle school grade level we just cannot sustain it with that little interest in our community no amount of advertising after virtual being a possibility for 2 and 1/2 years is is going to change that right now for us as soon as Dr Miller got those numbers did double check calls just reinforced with those those folks who who were on campus and decided to leave double check that she had somewhere around 10 new applicants uh we talked and it was important for me to let those good people know as quickly as possible what I intended to do because there are other options number one we've done school really well for a long time and we continue to do really well and our open Zone options

201expire tomorrow so a few weeks ago we let we let our faculty know and we let the parents know that we just didn't have enough to sustain it another option for for families is for 10 plus years there has been a a Tennessee Virtual Academy which is run by a public school when we saw that we had the opportunity that there was enough interest we wanted to do it our way the best we possibly could and give WCS instruction given that we can't I hope that these families can be served on our campus but if not it was important for them to know that those options were out there because they have deadlines too um you guys uh received some emails s from from some of those parents uh very respectful it just isn't going

202to work for us and based on those numbers I have to recommend that we close the school Mr Cash uh you mentioned emails Jason very positive you're absolutely right and uh it looks like the school was a very great success um can we put it in moth balls or something I mean some way that we could start this back up if interest showed up from a from a ro from a structural perspective it's not that difficult to start a new school on the for mate procedure uh might there come a time where there's enough interest as we grow for for online K8 that's POS possible uh so from a mothball perspective the the the straightforward thing to do is to close it now and then reopen it if and when there's there's enough interest down

203the road thank you Mr Welch I'm glad Dan you acknowledged that um and I want to do the same I I this was a a difficult road to to get here obviously um when we we came back in 2020 it was very much building the airplane while we were flying it and trying to figure out um you know creating policies creating procedures for those policies adjusting not knowing what the world was going to look like um creating a an online school from scratch off of soft where that uh you know there was no time to write so he had to go and get off the shelf that everyone was getting at the same time and bandwidth issues and tech support and and all of the the varied things that we had with it and a

204lot of consternation and anger and everything over that and look at kind of where we've gone with with I think that was kind of the probably the number one irritation point of everything I don't know hard to say at that point there are so many different irritation points uh but that was certainly a large one to where we are today where even though um the numbers are are we down and I just you know when you summarize it here I think it's a uh it's it's a good ask but your point where those who are in there are are really fighting for it because they love the product so much teachers uh that are are involved in it love the offer that they're able to do so um even though we're going to mothball it

205so to speak uh put it down I'm glad we do have the structure that you know if we ever need to bring something like this similar we've got those learnings that we can can do and build off of but want to acknowledge uh the hard work of so many people you know you and and staff and our teachers and the principles and everything that kind of got us to this point down this you know very hard road to to build something that we can all look back on and point at and be very proud of um during a very tough time thank you great faculty great staff great parents and great students especially Mr Mitchell thank you um Jason do you know the Middle School numbers versus the elementary school numbers for the uh yes

206um 16 and six 7 and 7th and 17 and 8th uh and I do want to point out that in those Middle School grades especially we need linger in the four core areas mathematics Ela social studies and science uh in addition to uh related arts special education Etc 167 and 17 is that what you said yes um and some of the comments that I've seen talk about were questioning the length of time enrollment was open uh and and and I guess socialization of the sign up how long was enrollment open I don't remember the exact number of days but I do know that Dr Miller pressed all uh students parents who were there um Dr web um I'm trying to remember did you yeah don't remember the exact time either uh and and I will

207tell you also in the two weeks since we announced this we have not had those individuals who did not choose it come to us and say I changed my mind I want it I'll get that number to you about how many days that was open um what do you consider for at least the middle school what do you consider the numbers that you would need per grade level to make it viable at least two sections of each uh and so for example 8th grade let's say you have an Ela teacher right now we have one course for 17 students so we can't get a full-time teacher uh I we would need a full-time teacher in in all those all those grade levels so so I'm going to give you an estimate two to three times

208as many students as we have in grade level yes seventh and eighth more especially than six because of the ler requirements so something total closer to 50 per grade level then approximately I'm looking for a nod from Dr web is that approximately about right yes and what's and and the the one request I keep reading over and over is can you open it back up for enrollment for a period of time just for one more try is there a reason that we can't do that I don't think it's realistic I don't think it's fair to uh the individuals who might be losing opportunities uh because we announced it before well before this meeting and we have not had a the flood of people number one number two because those 3 143 students who started the

209school year knew the opportunity was there and are choosing something different to prolong it it is is not good for anybody so the the reason to not open it so I I would I would guess my point would be that I don't know I don't understand how you're limiting the opportunity of of the existing 90 by opening the enrollment up again for I guess for the existing 41 for middle school but um for a couple more weeks or another week or so how does that limit their opportunity it's very clear we're not going to get enough students for that to come the people who have asked for that chose it no one who hasn't chosen it has asked for that our teachers need to find jobs in the district jobs are open right now the

210idea that we're going to go from 300 to 350 this fall to 80 something at the enrollment time and jump back up a few hundred with a couple more weeks after we've had this agonizing discussion is not realistic if that's a will of board will reopen it uh and because it it just it just isn't realistic all right thank [Music] you Mr Brown Jason what if what if any budget savings is there from closing the school we budgeted 27.2 teacher positions and then of course um two uh two well a principal plus an assistant principes so two administrators plus special education uh we will need to do some slight adjustments to our projections for individual schools based on the few hundred who've already told us they want to go back to their Zone School uh

211so we we will save those positions um we we we've worked on some estimates uh Rachel if if you may share a little bit of that roughly speaking it would be probably 1.5 million that's roughly speaking at the same time we are also growing a little bit faster than we thought we were going to so we know we're going to have positions that we're going to have to come back and ask for later so what we are hoping to do with a lot of these positions has moveed them to unassigned I don't know if you remember when we had the discussions about the budget we had taken away a good bit of the unassigned positions in order to make the budget work so this will allow us to put those positions back in place um

212and so any money even though we've budgeted the expense again we're not going to overhire if we need the position we'll hire for it if not then those funds would end up back in the fund balance thank you I did want to mention one thing that's somewhat related to that uh as you all know we speak to the WCA about teacher pay we are coming to you we we we we expect to come to you next month in May with a proposed te teacher schedule um and we had a draft based on our discussions and we are looking at the teacher pay schedule within that to see if there are some small adjustments we can make before we actually bring the final product to you uh as a result of this our next item on

213the agenda is the approval of the coding one instructional material waiver request thank you madam chair I'm going to use some vernacular the coding textbook is an anacronismo uh so Dr Allen had some discussions with the instructional leaders at the state level uh and they have let us know the first step is to ask for you to approve a waiver so we can go to them with a waiver I'm going to give Dr Allen the the essence of of uh of the proposed curriculum it's Interactive uh where you can do some coding and and and get immediate feedback and I don't think there's any irony and saying we're going to do some coding that is computer-based uh rather than textbook based so we do have a request for you to request a waiver so that

214we can get that to the state so that we can have curriculum that's more appropriate to coding as it is today I don't see any questions on this item then our last item for the evening is approval of 10e recommendations which is an annual agenda item thank you madam chair this is an exciting time to talk about 10year recommendations years ago I could tell you a story but it's awful late uh the current uh the the current standards for tenure are actually well described in Miss Hall's memo and so I encourage you to read that first paragraph of for memo Tim if if you would click on that the way tenure is structured now it is based on 5 years worth of evaluations the evaluations are in turn based on observations from principles and their

215student performance so the the recommendations for tenure typically come after the fact because they're based on test in part on test scores uh so these these teachers on this list have met the requirements of tenure truthfully months ago without us having the data to confirm it uh so we do recommend your approval for these uh tenure teachers and we hope we can give them all congratulations I don't see any questions and that's our last agenda item for the night board members you have reports and miscellaneous information attached uh to your board packet and uh with this we're dismissed and we'll see you Monday night thank you