001August 19th uh 2025 uh work session of the Coffee County Board of Education. Um I did not Beth, would you lead us in a prayer? >> I'll be glad to. >> Father, we just commit this meeting to you tonight. We need your wisdom, your understanding. We want to we want to vote your heart. And so we ask you to show us how to bless our the staff of Coffee County School System. Um how to prepare for the future. You know everything that's coming up. And so we thank you for it in the name of Jesus. Amen. >> Okay. We got a number of things on the agenda today. So u the first one um is the superintendent's calendar. So um and April, you want to discuss that? >> So when we were um loading Mr.
002Hardrove into payroll, we we referenced his contract. Um and there were questions about what calendar he was attached to. So, I think the previous director was detach was attached to the 261 calendar and he was on it all by himself and he got 10 holidays and 20 vacation days. But I remember in discussions with the new contract, that possibly the new director was going to move to the central office calendar, which is 257, which would give them 13 vacation days and 16 holidays. So, just need to clear up what I guess we need to clear up, my department needs to clear up on which calendar he's going to be on and in fact look at his vacation and um holidays to make sure what was put in the contract is correct. >> Right now, you
003way the contract reads, he's on his own calendar. >> Yes. So, the way it reads right now, he's on the old calendar minus 10 minus seven vacation days because right now he's getting 13, I think, per the per the um contract and then 10 holidays. So, the old contract for the old the previous director was on that same calendar, but he got 20 vacation days and 10 holidays. Now, I know we discussed this and kind of hashed this out at the uh director's meeting for the director search committee meeting and I believe FA and I were doing what's there. So hopefully will remember what we said. You remember why we decided this particular calendar? >> So you're saying that would you refresh us again? The previous director had 20 >> 20 vacation days >> and
004then 10 holidays >> and 10 holidays. Okay. And so >> it's in your packets. There's a the contracts are in there for each of the directors and I've highlighted it. Mr. Hardrove is on page three and Dr. Lawson is on page five. It's easier to write down. So there's 10 holidays and >> vacation days. And that was in Dr. Lawson's. >> Okay. And then presently it's >> presently he has um 13 vacation days and 10 holidays. >> Okay. So we are penalizing him uh seven >> let's see both areas really 13. Right now he's getting 13 vacation days and 10 holidays. >> That's correct. >> I don't remember discussing that. >> We discussed it, but I don't remember exactly why we decided. >> I don't remember anything. >> I don't know. I didn't know we
005even decided. >> I don't remember, >> Mr. Chairman. If >> it was in the Freed and I were doing >> Okay. >> I remember talking about putting the director on our >> second. >> I'm sorry, >> Mr. George. There there was a a vote actually went to the board and one of the reasons it was suggested to to drop trying to drop some of the calendar work calendars and that's the reason why it was brought up to to put uh the new director on the same 257 work calendar that the central office worked on. And I remember there was a vote and I don't know how it didn't get into the contract but there was a vote and the vote was to move forward with that. It's just locating that that vote. But there was
006a vote. >> I remember being discussion about him being on the same calendar as us up here because we would all work the same schedule and he wouldn't need to work days that we weren't here because what do you do when no one no one's here? I remember those discussions. >> I don't think it's ever broken down to comparison. >> So our work calendar. So that's just the 261. So if y'all chose to leave him on that, he would be on that all by himself. But I remember discussing that, but I don't think it ever got to the point of what how it was changing your vacation days and the holiday was presented >> as a contract. That's what was presented. >> So that's what you thought you were getting into. >> Um well, >>
007so each work calendar, so let me give a little more detail. So each work calendar based on how many days someone's worked they earn a vacation day for this many like they have there's a formula that says okay they earn this many vacation days and then there is a also another formula that says okay this is how many holidays they earn and so basically the calendar he's currently on he's going to earn all of that time but it's not reflected in his contract. Does that make sense? Like if he's attached to the 261 day calendar, he's going to earn the 16 holidays or whatever the 10 holidays. So everything's attached to a work calendar. And I just want to make sure that when we load his time, we have it correct because it reads like
008different from the previous director. And then it's different from what I think I heard in >> one of the meetings. No, >> if we put him on the same calendar as potential office staff, it'll line up with the contract he was presented he with the days he thought he was going to get. >> So, if you put him on our calendar, he will get 16 holidays and 13 vacation days. There's a difference of one day. So, >> difference in one day >> in total. There's a difference in one day. >> Better for him or worse? >> Well, right now it'd be better for him because right now he's he's not getting but 10 holidays. So, >> and >> so there's a contract negotiation over a day, right? >> Well, right now he's getting 23, I
009think 23 days. We get 29. So, there's six days difference. >> Okay. So, if he goes to the schedule, if we put him on the schedule of central office staff, he would get more days back. >> If it was written written correctly, the 261, it would be a difference in one day. But it's like it was written the it's like the vacation was written to be on the 257 calendar, but then the holidays were written to be on the 261. So it's like they're mixed calendar. >> And >> so there's a difference of six days right now. Six days from what he's not getting. >> More days or >> negotiate a day. >> When did this just one calendar start for the director >> the 257? Um, may we move? Oh, I've been on it
010since I've been here, but I think everyone was on it. 242. >> No, I think she was asking >> when did it start just for the the director was on their one only calendar >> because >> that was that's been well before us. >> Yes. So, well before us. I think Lonno McFall 2. It's based on what's written in the contract. So, I think I haven't looked at Ladonna McFall's contract or Dr. Lawson's, but it should say in there that he's on a 261 calendar. I think that's what Dr. Lawson's originally said, the first one. And I think if you go back and look at Dr. Vitfall, it may say that, too. I'm not certain why they were put on their own calendar. that was done several directors ago. But that's something that we talked
011about being him to being on their own calendar was seemed a little bit >> we we had discussed that in that director meeting but I don't remember how we came up with these zones. >> So kind of but the important thing is if we change this because it's in the contract we would have to make a contract amendment which would have to go back to the board and approved by the board. because it's just a contract. >> That's correct. >> Or we could still leave him on a single >> payline, >> but amend how your payline reflects to match it. >> Right. There had to be a reason. >> Amend the 261 that you're calling the 261. It was just for the director. Amend it to however many days it works out to line up
012with this contract. >> There had to be a reason one time that the director would I mean evidently it's been in the past always been on the line. So, >> so I think it so like if you count the days in the school calendar is either 261 or 262 usually or 260, >> right? >> So that might have been the logic, >> right? And >> at some point >> I mean that he's definitely not the same as as central office employees and I think that's you know the director always had a separate calendar, separate >> vacation days and everything. I just don't want our director to get less than than everybody else as far as >> and that's why I brought it to you guys. Well, that's why I brought it up because >> So,
013leave the leave the contract alone and just change the >> right for the director. >> You would have to increase his holidays. >> Well, we're going to be doing that anyway if we change it. >> You would have to increase his vacation days or whichever one doesn't matter. >> But that would change the contract. Yes. >> Either way. either way we're doing change the contract. >> But the way I look at it, you're we're going we're going to be changing his holidays and vacation days no matter which way we go. >> That's correct. And I think Robin, you got to I think that's a good idea to leave it at that separate. >> I don't think my break is long enough. >> Yeah, >> that's right. >> It'll be the easiest. I know it's probably
014not easy on on bookkeeping, but that's that's just to me though. >> It's actually okay because he's on that. It doesn't matter if he's on 257 or 261. >> We just need to make sure we have the right days. >> I didn't want him to lose day lose days, >> right? >> And I I think that's fine. I just, you know, but I but I'm saying that we probably would need to change the contract to regardless. >> That's correct. to make the days because when the auditor pulls the contract, he'll make sure he'll check everything that we've loaded. Um, they check it. They check the director's contract every year. So, he'll check everything that we've loaded to make sure it matches the contract. >> So, we would just make the revision. Yeah. I mean, if
015everybody's in agreement with changing that, we just make make the appropriate change here and then just vote on the amendment, the amended contract at the September board meeting. >> Yeah. So, if you want to leave the days alone, the contract, the 261, is that what I'm hearing? Y'all want to put him like leave him on the 261? >> And that would be how many? >> He he would just change his vacation days to 20. >> Okay. >> That's what the previous director got >> on the 261. >> What is that? >> But April, wouldn't that put him up here by himself an awful lot on those holidays? >> It's a difference in one day. So, he could take those he could take vacation days. >> Okay. And this at the same time we weren't here.
016I think it was a difference of one day. So >> you'd be all right up here by yourself. Scott, >> check on me every now and then. Sleep for anything answering the phone. >> You work well without supervision. You can bring you can you can bring to work with you. >> I kind of think you bring your cooker up here and cook barbecue. We'll come by and eat lunch with you. >> We'll make it work. We'll make this work out for you. Okay. We'll check on you. >> So, I'm kind of hearing from everybody is just change this to the 261 calendar. Is that >> And then we can put that language in and vote on it in September. >> Well, I don't think we have to. It's already a 261 calendar, isn't it? >>
017Just need to change >> the the vac the >> Yeah, the days. >> Yeah. The days in here match the 261 calendar. So, >> okay. Everybody fine with that? Okay. Not hearing any objections. We can make that contract change, Melissa, and get it on the agenda for September board meeting. All right. All right. Let's hope they all go that fast. >> So, the only thing that's going to change on April will be instead of it holidays. >> Nope. It'll be 20 vacation days. >> The vac the holidays will stay the same. >> Okay. That's the way Dr. Wson's I think read. >> Yes. >> All right. Next up is the um Okay, I've already lost my agenda. Raptor Raptor presentation. This is Are we back on the air? Yes, sir. >> All right, we are
018back on the air and uh next up on the agenda is the enrollment projections. Uh this is uh from Harpath Research and uh we have W Architects and Engineers here as well. So, Mr. Shores, you want to do the introductions and we'll launch in. Okay, I'm I'm going to introduce the the ones from Harpath and this is really more Harpath's um presentation. Wool is here for after the fact if there's any questions on direction and and going from there. Uh I'm sure they will answer anything if you ask them throughout the thing though. But uh I'd like to introduce and I'm not going to try to say last names. I explain that and when you hear their names, you'll probably understand why. We have Patrick, Ben, and Mason. and I'm gonna go ahead and turn
019it over to you. >> Excellent. Thank you. I'm Patrick Jubalonsky, Harpath Research, live in Franklin, Tennessee. Uh just so you know, I think it took us 90 minutes to get here today. Uh there's a lot of growth in Middle Tennessee that you were well aware of. We just drove through it. Uh uh honored to be here. Uh real quick, I was a college professor for uh years in a previous life. Uh, and then when that one came along, my wife told me I needed to go get a real job. Uh, and the only place that would hire me was, uh, government doing planning and research. That was, uh, 22 years ago. Uh, and so, uh, honored and thrilled to be with you. Uh, I'm a data scientist by trade. We do, uh, a lot of
020government planning and forecast work. Real quick, I'll let you talk to the rest of Harpath Research. Um, I'm Ben Jablonsky. Work with my father on uh statistical analysis. My background is in mathematics and statistics. Um, so I assist with the analysis we'll be stepping through today. I'm Mason Jablonsky, the younger brother, and uh, I just started in the last two years working with them. So, this is only my like fourth or fifth project. >> So, we got Is anybody missing from the family? >> There's a uh we have a daughter uh at the University of Kentucky that's making sority videos as we speak. And my wife's back home watching and staring at my bald spot on the camera behind us. So, uh it's an honor to be here. the family of nerds has made it
021from Franklin, Tennessee to Coffee County. Uh we are contracted basically to give you a a study of uh how many people you're going to have uh in your classrooms, the number of noses in the next five and 10 years across the district. Uh to do that, we did a study of the demographics of of the county uh as well as the localities within the county to come up with five and 10 year enrollment projections. Uh you're going to see me for about hate to tip my hand like this because I might lose you. You're going to see me for about 20 slides uh talking about the population. Then I'll turn it over to Ben uh to uh talk about the actual forecasting and the projections and Mason will chime in if we get anything wrong
022uh and I might put him on the spot during the presentation. But basically we want to tell you what our analysis of the Coffee County population growth is in general. uh the student age, school age population specifically, some of the uh difficulties and challenges with doing that specifically to this community uh and then get to our projected enrollment numbers and talk about that. Uh for the population analysis as we begin uh first of all, we got a bunch of data from a variety of sources. First of all, uh uh thank you to Mr. shores for facilitating us acquiring uh system enrollment numbers going back to uh 20 some odd years ago uh by grade. We also acquired some enrollment numbers from the United States Department of Education uh that that was uh good in in
023several forms. Uh the elementary enrollment numbers by school and grade were specifically helpful. We'll have a subsection of the the slides today talking about that. And then for the population and demographic data, we relied on the Boyd Center uh at the University of Tennessee, the Center for Population Studies, uh to uh give us the county population and the county population forecast. Uh we'll talk about that a little bit. We won't try we'll try not to nerd out too much uh on that. Uh we took all that data and our our study essentially is we needed to subdivide out the coffee county population numbers uh to be able to exclude to am I allowed to say to >> yes >> it's going to be really hard for us to give this presentation without okay uh with
024uh we had to parcel out to Manchester and get to the remaining portions of the county to be able to arrive at the uh appropriate numbers and then once we uh got a a working data set. We used uh really a standard uh survival analysis technique which is pretty much what uh any forecaster would do with school enrollment data. So the first chart that I have to show you uh you're going to see a series of three charts that build upon this one. This is the first one. This is the overall population change percentages uh between 2010 and 2023. This comes from uh the US Census Bureau American Community Survey. We uh cross-applied this back to the Boyd Center, by the way, to make sure uh that that we were getting a consistent story. It
025was close enough for us to use. Uh essentially, you'll see that the city of Tloma uh population went up by 11%, Manchester by 28%. The full county population, counting everybody, Tul, Manchester, outside countywide, uh up 13% during that time. When you partial out the Manchester and Oklahoma uh populations by doing some math, the the coffee population uh growth is lower at 7%. That's kind of what we say the growth estimate is uh for uh the the school system purposes because that's where your your schools are. And so we add a wrinkle to this. We now add these columns. I didn't want to throw everything on this slide at you at once so it would cross me up. uh and we're the ones that are kind of living this slideshow right now. Uh when we add
026the gold columns, this is the enrolled school population, the school age uh population of these localities. You can see that the school age population in Oklahoma has regressed during this time by 7%. Uh Manchester is up by a quarter. So it's relatively in line with the overall population growth for Manchester. the full population of Coffee County uh is only up 3% for the school age. And then when we take out the uh Manchester and Oklahoma numbers, the the really the CCSS population is up uh just under a half a percent uh between 2010 and 2023. So essentially really one of the the regular themes that you're going to hear us echo uh during our slides is that yes coffee county is growing but right now that population growth is very much uh concentrated in Manchester
027uh a little bit in depending on the age of people and the countywide population that we think will be coming. It hasn't kicked in uh quite yet. That's essentially what our our central thesis is uh this afternoon. uh another part of the population you can see uh the the scale jumps on us. The gray columns here are the kindergarten age population uh for the various areas of the county. And so for we see uh a significant decrease in the number of uh kindergarten age children. Manchester about what you would expect. It's very constant. It's in line with uh the the overall growth and the school age growth. Uh we see shrinkage of the full population of coffee. It's being dragged down really by the the reduction in the Oklahoma population. And then we get this
028bubble of uh children countywide outside of Manchester and Tallah 10% growth of the kindergarteners. Uh that's in a real increase and that impacts our forecast. Uh that we could have gone to that middle column on the far right, the 0.5%. I don't think that's realistic at all. Uh based on really just uh coming to Coffee County every couple months as as we do, this place is growing significantly. We expect it to uh go up and we we kind of see this bubble of a a future generation uh coming up. Uh unfortunately, these numbers that we get from the uh American Community Surveys and and also the Boyd Center, these are not forecasts, right? These are the difference between 2010 and 2023. uh they don't give us uh what the forecasted population is to 2035. So
029we have to obtain a forecast. Uh left side of this slide is an actual screenshot from the Boyd Cent's uh Coffee County projections. If you look at that chart, uh you can see we're in the gray area right now. Kind of the the border between the gray and the green actually to the right of it. Uh for whatever reason, we couldn't move the nudge the uh uh chart off to 2025. uh it really wanted to stay at 2022 and so that's why you're seeing a 14.4% growth for uh the county uh at that time. But essentially the the central story is yes the growth is coming. Uh the chart goes all the way to 2068. So it's it's you know 40 years down the road and it's a little bit hard to see but somewhere
030around uh 2040 the growth rate really escalates here. it's uh a lot bigger. And so, you know, one of the things that we're contractually obligated to do to work with you is to say, here's what your reality is to 2035. Uh it's beyond the 2035 time that I think a a significant chunk of the growth uh is going to come. Essentially, everything that we drove through on the way down here is going to work its way down uh as time progresses. uh you know for for better or worse uh middle Tennessee will continue to to grow and urbanize in the direction of Coffee County. Uh our numbers in the the state's numbers uh seem to indicate that's going to happen post 2035. For 2035, Boyd Center is saying the overall population is going to grow
031by 10.3%. Uh when you drill into that and get the school age population, the growth for the entire county uh is 13.4%. That's everybody. that includes Manchester and Oklahoma. Uh, and so once we got our hands on this, uh, we tried to get Manchester and population projections. That's when I I turn and look at Mason. That was his job to go get Manchester and uh, population projections. And he came back after a day uh, and and he's he's a blood hound on on the internet and acquiring data for us. Um, now quick story. We we uh basically sick him on uh the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma uh that had 13 separate county jails that didn't have a a jail operating system and he went and found every member of the Cherokee Nation who had been
032incarcerated in those counties. Uh we were told that was an impossible task. Mason did it. So we gave him this job. uh and he came back and said there are no population forecasts uh that are official from the state for Manchester and uh we experience some degree of grief if you will about that because it made this uh project a little harder and then about 24 hours later Mason came back to us and said um if you read the Boyd Center website it explains a methodology for somebody who's good at math to actually deduce what the population growth grow will be for Manchester and Oklahoma. Uh and so we actually looked at that methodology and we executed it and we found that 60% of the projected population county growth will be uh concentrated in Manchester
033and through 2035. Again, uh huge population growth expected after 2035. So basically we followed their prescription, they being the Boyd Center uh at the University of Tennessee to figure out what that forecast would be. So uh that's the population analysis. Now we need to bridge the population analysis to the actual uh school enrollment uh figures. And so uh we have some slides for you. Uh essentially we want to match the population forecasts with specific areas within Coffee County, right? But the countywide areas that aren't Manchester, aren't uh and we needed to cross apply that forecast. Now, in previous projects, we knew that we could go to the Census Bureau and acquire uh data by census track, right? It's basically individual neighborhoods within each county that have the census counts and the census takers go to
034those areas and they do their count and those numbers get logged. For whatever reason, uh, the federal government has pulled all the pre2020 census data off the website except for, and I'm basically going to kill it for a bunch of researchers because they're going to figure it out. Uh, uh, there is a cancer agency within the federal government that has not pulled their census data off, and we happened to find it. Uh, and we downloaded all of the census track numbers for the entire United States uh, onto my computer at home. Uh, that that gave us every single census tract uh, every single age, race, gender, uh, other breakdown between 2006 and uh, 2023. And that was going to put you on the spot. How many rows of data? >> Oh, uh, millions. Millions and
035rows. It was a half a billion rows of data. >> It was half a billion rows of data. And I basically sent it to him and said uh pull out all the Coffee County children uh who are elementary school age uh so that we could get a picture of what the school age is by uh census track. So we get to that. That took us a couple days for that to process. uh we started subdividing those numbers and running subtotals and and getting us to where we uh could match uh populations of census tract and then we needed to apply it to the school uh zone map and you can see in the photo there it's a very scientific uh printout of a school zone map that Mr. Shore sent us that we literally uh
036with no other technology available to us overlaid the census tracked data with the school zone data. Uh I don't own a color printer and so you'll see uh dotted around this map. I'm writing what the colors are of your school zone map. You can see red uh in the upper left. The numbers there are the census tracks. I basically tell you to tell you that to tell you this. We worked on this. I think this was about 20 labor hours trying to figure out what the census track numbers were uh match them to the schools with the idea of being for all six elementary schools we say here are the school age census populations and then we would forecast the numbers uh using some of the guidance from the Boyd Center and our mathematical modeling
037uh that we would do on a time series basis. And so we get to the end where we're actually building the tables for this presentation, getting to the math uh to to say here's what the by school uh uh expected growth rates are. And when we got to the end, uh, we realized that the census track data was almost completely useless, uh, to us because, uh, there's a multiplier that the Census Bureau used, uh, for each year that they didn't vary by census tract. Uh, they just said, oh, Coffee County from year X to year. In fact, I'll tell you 2023 to 2017, they've said everything's going to grow by 7% independent of the zip code, independent of the area within the county. They just went and did that. Uh, so it's not very helpful.
038After we did all of that work, but essentially, I want to uh demonstrate that we did our due diligence uh trying to come up with specific areas uh down to the neighborhood level. Uh we did run into some difficulties that some school zones share uh census tracks. Uh here's the resulting table from our census analysis. The numbers here are the tracked populations. Uh that does not mean that there's 1,69 uh uh school age students in the new union district in 2017. I had to combine multiple census tracks because uh New Union sits on three census tracks. It shares two census tracks with some of the other uh schools. Uh but essentially we really did try to get to uh the the a by district uh by tracked prediction of what the population would be. The
039far right columns on the right uh when you do the calculations and compare the 2023 population numbers back to 2017, lo and behold, they all came out to 6.985 something. And it was remarkable that it was down to like the the 10,000th place. And then I kind of knew what was going on there in 2023 versus 2021 is 3%. I knew the census data wasn't going to be necessarily helpful for us uh at that point in terms of modeling and that uh at that point we were going to use the Boyd Center data along with uh using the actual enrollment numbers for uh the schools. So enrollment numbers enrollment for this school system has decreased slightly between 2003 and uh 2024. The graph covers uh 2003 to 2024. It does not include the prek population.
040Now the AC is down so I can stop yelling. Uh the the population back in in 2003 was a shade over 4,000. Uh you can see that uh it's actually down just a little bit from that time. And the the big feature on this graph over in the far right, you can see the draw down of the student population uh due to the first wave of COVID in 2020 where the uh school population actually hit the 4,000 level uh across the board. Um during the 2003 to 24 time period of this graph, we saw uh really two areas of significant change. Significant decreases uh between the uh uh 6th to 8th grade uh numbers. there's a 20% drop uh in enrollment over time with that. I suspect there's some some reasons for that. And then
041there's a wide variation in high school age growth uh that that range from any one time to 2% and then there's a year where it's 21% uh that that essentially the the bottom line story is if you look at the 2024 enrollment numbers, it's still at a level that's below 2019 uh really going back to 2013 in the data. So, um, uh, to to put a a bow on this is the the, uh, overall population is down from long ago, but it and it is still lower than it was back in 2019. So, the growth that we're that we see in some areas is really a kind of a retrenching back to precoid times. to give you some uh perspective on the uh chart that I just showed you. The the top line uh top
042row uh line there uh I don't know is that brown uh is essentially uh your uh systems school numbers. The kind of orang-ish line in the middle more reddish I guess is the enrollment numbers. Uh fix your eyes really on the 2010 2011 dot. you'll see that there's an increase from 2011 going forward in the numbers. Uh that's uh slight compared back to 2003 but significant uh compared back to 2011. The Manchester numbers are up almost 31%. That's the gold line at the bottom. Uh if you look specifically from say 2013 up uh to uh 2023 graphed on here uh you can see that their enrollment numbers eclipsed 1500. So significant growth in Manchester, uh slight growth in in as well as the Coffee County school system. So that's the the overall picture for the
043enrollment numbers. Now we now know the overall enrollment picture in our story. We still have to figure out what the specific uh pockets of uh numbers look like. And so we acquired the individual elementary school data uh for the six elementary schools going back in time. Uh obviously we tried to apply the census tracks to the school zones but everything's that 3% or 7% uh which is is really a shame. Uh we've done a lot of work around the country where we use census track data. Uh it's been rare for us to see that. I'm not saying that Coffee County uniquely is picked on. Uh I can't speak to the rest of Tennessee. Uh but that was very very disappointing to us. Uh so uh the following slides look at the six elementary school uh
044schools uh growth uh rates. The the order of this is essentially by growth rate. Uh initially I think this was alphabetical and I switched it on the car drive down here. Uh we first look at Hillsboro Elementary to interpret this. There's two rows of data. The first one first row being the total enrollment uh by uh school and you can see there's the number for 2017. There's 419 total students. Uh in kindergarten you had 59 uh enrolled and then in 2021 you see the number 394 and 52. And then the delta is basically my comparison between 2021 and 2017 for this particular school. Uh I give three comparisons on the far right. Uh from 2017 to 2025 we have 4% growth and we have 22% growth for on on the kindergarten level. So there's significant
045growth from a preandemic uh perspective to a post-pandemic perspective. Uh if we look just at pure postpandemic numbers, that's the final right columns there. Uh 2021 and 2023 both compared to uh 2025, you see 11% for the total enrollment, but then 38% and 33% for the kindergarten enrollment numbers. Uh uh two takeaways here. Uh significant growth. Um some of that growth is uh retrenchment back from uh COVID. you know, all the enrollment numbers take a dip in 2020 and to another extent maybe in 2021. And so we see those numbers rebound. In this case, for this particular school in Hillsboro, the uh rate of growth actually compares uh favorably going back in time such that the population uh the enrolled population for last school year exceeded precoid times. It's real growth uh 4% overall. But
046there's that bubble at the kindergarten level that we had referenced about seven or eight slides ago. Uh very real for Hillsboro. North Coffee Elementary uh is next. Same methodology that that we used before. Uh look at the the right side. Precoid to postcoid 3% for the entire school. Uh 18% for kindergarten. Again, real growth rates uh there. If you compare the postcoid to postcoid times 21 to 25, uh 17 and 44%. However, it it really um kind of uh slows down the last couple years with 3% uh increases. Uh that that's really kind of normal. And I I think at this point you're probably thinking this is within the the error band, the forecast band that you're about to to talk to. Uh so the 3% increase is uh pretty much kind of what we're
047looking at with uh our forecast numbers. Third school is Hickerson Elementary. uh 2017 to 2025 uh no change and then kindergarten enrollment is down by 10% but then uh postcoid significant growth but again look back at that precoid number a lot of the enrollment level for the previous school year is basically back to what it was before COVID hit. Uh it appears that the start of this school year is higher uh than uh last year, but um when we really did kind of very quick math on that in the last uh few minutes before the presentation, again, that's well within the forecast that Ben is about to speak to. Uh next school that we look at is uh Deerfield. Uh look at the far right two columns. You'll see growth, but again, that's postcoid. It's
048the rebound off of COVID. Really the important number here is comparing 2017 pre-COVID to 2025 where we are now. Uh the the the full school size is down two. The uh kindergarten enrollment is up three which is very much in line with what we had said previously about this kind of bulb of kindergarten students in the countywide uh population numbers that we're seeing. new union uh uh uh reductions across the board uh precoid and postcoid uh basis uh essentially that the school numbers there have dropped. Uh, one of the things to keep in mind is if you look at the actual numbers here, look at 2024 and 2025, uh, 314 uh, students down to 313. It's it's, uh, coming up as a a calculation there where um, uh, 0% between 24 and 25. Uh, really
049because the population sizes are a little bit small, some of the percentages uh, might not be all that helpful. Essentially, the the takeaway here is New Union uh, specifically is not growing. And then finally, uh, East Coffee, uh, pre-COVID to postcoid, the the school population still has not rebounded, uh, to where it was before. If you look in the school year, uh, last school year, 237 for the total, uh, enrollment, kindergarten at 37. Go back to the left side uh, of the chart for 2017, you had uh, 35 more students enrolled back in 2017, you had four more kindergarteners there. Uh and we're seeing uh really not much growth between 23 and 25 on the kindergarten side for East Coffee. Um so, you know, despite the the Census Bureau uh not being able to help
050us out with uh parceling out the neighborhood level census growth, I think the school enrollment analysis uh kind of gives us uh and and our our partners from Wald I think an idea on a per school basis where the growth patterns are occurring uh in the county. At least that's what the enrollment uh is is saying. Overall, a lot of the uh increases that we detect over the last two to three years uh really uh are just a a bounce back from the from the COVID uh numbers with Hillsboro and North Coffee being the the highest uh rates of growth on on the chart. We put a little heat map on there. you can see uh significant growth in the uh kindergarten enrollment certainly for Hillsboro and North Coffee and uh the lower rates at
051the full enrollment uh levels for uh those two schools. So that's where we stand in terms of the population analysis that we we parcel out the growth for the school system. Uh and then we gave you what our uh analysis of the school level data show us that it's uh dependent on where you are in the county to get that full growth rate that the Boyd Center is saying. Uh with that in hand, I'll turn it over to Ben Jablonsky to talk about the actual forecast. Sorry. Here you go. >> Here you go, brother. Thank you. >> Sorry about your microphone. >> I apologize. happen. So, >> um so as Patrick was saying with the context of the enrollment and population numbers, we'll step through the projection development process and then the ultimate projection results.
052Um so the bedrock of our projection is establishing a kindergarten projection baseline. Um as Patrick mentioned earlier, we used a cohort survival analysis. Um so using that kindergarten enrollment we assume that each year someone enrolled in kindergarten moves on to the first grade and then the second grade. So the kindergarten projection forms our baseline uh for the projection as we go forward. Of course there's some migration in and out of the school system as well as uh students from Manchester City schools uh moving into the system for high school. Um so that uh is sort of the the general process through which we produce the projected numbers. Um but starting with the the kindergarten enrollment uh we took a a look from 2010 to 2023 to develop the kindergarten enrollment numbers. Um there has been
053a significant uptick over the last three years. Um and as Patrick was mentioning with the larger uh census data, there is a a bulb a growth uh in the last few years of kindergarten age students that informs our projection um given that the the higher kindergarten enrollment numbers means that in five years we expect higher middle school enrollment um as those kids age upwards. Um we do factor in relatively cyclical patterns of uh those demographic changes and kindergarten enrollment more broadly. Um given that the school age population for the uh for Coffee County excluding Manchester and to Oklahoma has only grown at a 0.5% rate over uh the last uh 10 to 15 years. We do want to uh factor that in when we form our our projections of uh you know the the middle
054school and the high school that we don't necessarily expect a a massive amount of uh enrollment or migration into the system um based on those population and census numbers. Um ultimately 20 2035 enrollment in kindergarten we're projecting to be 5.7% higher than current headcount. um that reflects the the higher enrollment in the last couple years, but that is still well below uh enrollment and 20110 2011 levels as you can see on the left hand side of the screen. And not to throw too much data at you all at once, but this uh is sort of the the grade by grade projection for the 10 to 11ear time frame. Um overall uh for the total school system we're projecting 5.3 overall growth. Um that does track with the the kindergarten projection at 5.7 being slightly higher
055um just because there there is a an influx of uh kindergarten age um people in uh the county outside Manchester and to um but uh you know we also provide the K through 5 6 through 8 and uh 9 through 12 breakdowns and I I don't want to list a whole bunch of data at you all at once but uh in general eneral the the overall growth rate reaches 5.3% by 2035. I know Patrick mentioned the higher levels of growth that the Boyd Center uh is expecting after that time uh after that time frame, but uh this does track with the overall uh population growth numbers that we're seeing uh over the last 15 years and projecting forward uh to the next 10 years. um and then provided the individual survi survival ratios of over
056the last uh 15 to 20 years and then over the last 5 years to try to get a general idea of how the pandemic has affected those year-to-year variations in enrollment. Um first wanted to point out the sixth to 7th grade uh kind of survival ratio increase that we're see that we saw historically. Um so a survival ratio of one would indicate that every student that was enrolled in say fourth grade went on to the fifth grade in the next year. Um so if that number is above one that means that students were added to that class in the uh you know between year. Um what we saw historically was an increase from sixth to seventh grade of around 5% but that's been more or less wiped out after the COVID uh pandemic in the
057years following that. And uh so we wanted to make an explicit adjustment to not follow with that historical trend necessarily of 5% growth in uh 7th grade that wasn't there in sixth grade. The more notable uh survival ratio deviation from 1% is from 8th to 9th grade. Uh post pandemic uh that ratio is uh 1.47 which indicates nearly 50% growth moving into to high school. So that uh factors in the influx of students from Manchester City schools and is uh pretty much the the main driver there. Um what we did want to call out for the larger high school projection provided on the previous slide is those 9th through 12th grade uh survival ratios where uh they dip below one and by 11th to 12th grade get to 84 which represents 16% of the 11th
058grade class uh not being represented in the 12th grade class. Um so that uh informs the the high school projection there where it results in a lower growth rate overall as those uh individuals drop out from the or leave the school system in in one way or the other. I believe I will hand it back to Patrick to go over the conclusions here. >> Yep. So basically uh we've come down from uh Franklin and threw about 20 charts and tables at you uh to to tell you largely what you already know in in some aspects that the the county is certainly growing. Uh the individual growth rates are very dependent on where you are in the county. The bulk of the school age growth according to the the data that we have available to us
059uh is is really concentrated in in Manchester and and to a much lesser degree uh in uh uh for the most part the school specific enrollment levels are are very much showing a rebound from the uh preandemic levels uh with two notable exceptions uh where we see uh the growth. I I want to very much emphasize that the uh countywide population growth post 2035 is uh going to be rather astounding. If you look at the Boyd Center numbers, that graph uh goes uh uh stratospheric. I think that will have uh uh major impacts on on Coffee County. However, to get uh there uh we have to go from uh now to 2035. I I don't see much in the way of the census data that that's saying uh there's uh a a gigantic growth uh
060in the next 10 years over and above the uh 5.7% level uh that that we're showing with our school uh projections. Uh other than that, it's been an honor uh to to work with uh Coffee County uh on this and uh very much look forward to hearing what questions you have because I know you've got to have a bunch for us. So, let's go. >> I just have a quick question. We obviously we had some student population disappear during COVID. So, where do they go? I mean, do we I mean, that might be a question for Mr. Shores, too, I guess, but do we know off into homeschooling, private schools? I mean >> when looking at >> not necessarily Coffee County specific data there, but uh for the Department of Education, the bulk was made
061up from people moving to uh private school and home school um in one avenue or the other as well as a significant chunk uh primarily in the high school population that entirely left the school system. Okay. So, we're seeing in high school we're seeing the survival ratio go down to now that 0.84 is from um 11th grade to 12th grade. Right. That's just >> correct. >> Yeah. So, that's >> and we don't know if we're losing those students to drop out >> homeschool switching schools, whatever. Exactly. A lot of students in our high school level. >> Yep. And it, like you said, includes all of those all of those sources. >> So, would you say that's a pretty normal number for for a high school or based on >> um it's on the the higher
062range of what I've seen for both uh 9th to 10th, 10th through 11th and 11th through 12th. I would say there is typically a negative survival ratio there, but I would say the specific ones here are on the higher end >> because you're seeing the 1.42 42 in the 8th tonight, which is where you've got Manchester and Coffee County sending kids to the high school >> still dropping down to 084 on board. >> I didn't know our dropout rate was that bad. I mean, >> well, it's not necessarily the dropout rate. I don't think I think it's a combination of dropout rate, combination of kids moving out, combination of kids going >> from 10th I mean from 11th to 12th grade there's a big >> big drop that I don't know drop out. Maybe I'm
063just >> I >> think we we ought to conceptualize it as a departure rate >> because you know not all those those uh people are are necessarily dropping out. In fact uh Mr. Shores sent us dropout rate data that I think uh backed us up on that that it's it's a it's not one thing, it's a variety of things. >> Yeah. um on the population in Manchester. Um the reason one reason the Manchester population is increasing is because they have you know annexed they annex and there are a lot of apartment buildings going up. There's a lot of reszoning being done where it's high density and that brings a lot of children into this county. And in Coffee County, we just had a recent uh change in our zoning where that uh you have to
064have five acres to even sell five acre tracks and for res. >> Keep my mouth shut if that camera is on >> and uh hanging there. >> And the way I'm looking at this is that really we don't have growth in our school system. >> I'll say that. Let it travel across the >> We're we're flat. Hillsboro uh and North Coffee and possibly east. And when you look at that and Hillsboro and East, they they might possibly need a new school out that way. >> It's the I24 corridor. >> So, and New Union cannot New Union is not going to grow because their growth is already there. All the subdivisions were developed back when that growth spurt hit. And it's the way the school zones are are determined. There's no other place to even be
065building there. So, it's probably going to stay practically the same unless we re redistrict. >> Yep. And I'm really glad you mentioned the uh zoning requirement change with the the fiveacre lots um because that that did inform our broader projection. um especially for middle and high school, you know, we felt better about not projecting necessarily an influx uh for middle and high school as the projection went on um just based on you know that kind of um putting a a cap on the overall amount of growth that we could foresee. So, um, with that in mind, you know, looking at different areas, I mean, obviously, as Freda says, new union areas kind of built out, but there's areas around, you know, between where Hickerson is and Oklahoma that probably have areas that can be developed.
066Have you did you take that into account? I know you didn't have the really good census track data, so you're kind of handicapped by that, but is there any way you took that into account? >> Yes. Uh qualitatively, we uh not not to name drop, we we talked to the county mayor. Uh we talked to the development board. Uh we talked to really everybody that we could to get an idea regarding uh >> regarding what the expectations are for future development. uh in in you know the Boyd Center numbers really reflect only what the Boyd Center staff knows at the time they know it. This is an issue that we run into across the country uh in terms of of development is that uh a lot of their projections are uh purely uh based on
067arithmetic plus what development they see coming online. And so the the discussion we had on the Harpath research side uh is essentially uh with the lack of uh high density future development uh for the foreseeable future, we don't see that driving enrollment growth uh long term. Now, got to say driving down here and we cross the county line uh some of the most beautiful countryside you you'd ever see. Uh, sorry guys. My wife and I are looking at at moving out of Franklin at some point. And, you know, uh, we'd love to come here. We'll we'll happily get a 5 acre lot, but we're not bringing our kids with us. Uh, you know, maybe some grandchildren, but uh, not yet. But >> there there's always election years. And I and I and I commend you
068for having that conversation. You said you did good, Lord. >> Yeah. And you're exactly right. what you say I think is a very powerful sentence sir because uh it the the as stakeholders change and turnover you know I it's the vast majority of the work we do is is working with with government public policy decisions that are made by stakeholders and we see uh things change people change times change uh and and you know just looking at the development that we've had in Williamson County uh in the 30 years that we've been around um is is an astounding number that I I'm willing to bet that that 50 years ago the conversation there was you know we'll never grow uh and and come up >> yeah I've I've built subdivisions in in this community and
069I also rowcrop farm just under 3,000 acres in this community own close to 2,000 acres it take me the last farm that I sold I sold 100 acres that's going to be developed. I sold 100 acres. For what I sold that 100 acres for, it would take me 182 years of growing corn to profit the same amount of money I did in one sale. And I'm not going to be here 182 years to make that money. I love it. They don't make any more of it. But you can't stop. Anyways, we're getting off that. We never get off track, do we? >> But you feel better now. >> Oh, I do feel better. I hope it went all the way across. I have a question. Oh, go ahead. >> But when you were saying about
070Hickerson, you know, it's the same as anywhere else in the county. You know, the restrictions are the same >> there. So, >> all we've got is these >> what's already there. And that's what we've got to look at is what's what's there. >> Where's the urban growth boundary? Is there any room in the urban growth boundary? >> Uh I mean no it doesn't go out to Hickerson. >> It doesn't. Okay. >> No it it it takes union. It goes >> uh yeah would >> is my okay. So, so based on and I'm I got a quick question for W. Well, why don't you go ahead and then I'll >> I was just going to ask so our projected enrollment is significantly higher than what they projected and how does that relate to this? Yeah, I
071I I would say that um the elementary school and kindergarten projection is the aggregate figure for the entire county. Um I think what Patrick stepped through with the individual elementary schools kind of provides an illustration of where we would allocate um the portions of that growth that we'd we'd expect. Um especially given uh 2026 numbers being I think you said around 250 >> 256 is what >> 256 um you know we we definitely expect Hickerson to be among the the higher growers especially um in the post-pandemic area. I think our broader thesis is that it's um from 2017 to 2025 is really just returning to prepandemic levels. Adding in the 2026 data um looks at around 4% growth from 2017 to 2026, which um is in line with what we'd expect over that time period.
072Um and I I I think reflects the the broader census data. >> What what is your kindergarten enrollment at Hickerson? >> Um we have 38 I believe in kindergarten. Right now we have um 38 in prek. >> Okay. So So the enrollment in 2017 was 39 and so in 2025 it's 38. So it's kindergarten hasn't increased >> but that 38% I mean that 38 in your prek everybody doesn't do prek so >> this is kindergarten >> but she said her prek was also what 38 >> oh okay >> so those numbers are going to be significantly higher when all the pre all the They also have outside. >> Okay. >> Can I see that chart again? About five forward that had all the schools right there. >> One that you had a grade level that
073was on out 35. Oh, >> the projection. >> Did that include? No, I'm asking. Did did that include all schools, all just Coffee County schools or was that all of Coffee County included Manchester and Tom? >> Um Coffee County school system specifically >> 220 more I think it showed about 220 more kids. >> You know this is this is Can you put that back up there again that >> Okay. This is kind of concerning because uh Hickerson and East Coffee were the two schools that were in line for additional >> building program and it's looks like it's stable or less >> u I mean that's just something that we have to consider >> or you look at redistricting >> right >> some of the students >> right and building >> from coffee to Hickerson and
074justify Hickerson >> expansion more renovation >> and also uh Hillsboro and East Coffee, you know, Hills Hillsboro's shows a 22% up again >> and East Coffee, you know, side to side. >> Yep. >> But for for Wool, then based on these numbers, then we had a discussion last time about having two section versus three section school. And this would probably argue for two section plan >> you remember the two section versus three section discussion because that's really really where we were at in the spring when we talked about this work session is >> what capacity do we plan for and >> we said you know based on the information we have right now we don't have enough for projections to say that you would grow more than that. We had enrollment history to show what
075that looked like but at that time we said there's sort of three options. There's the right size the gyms and cafeteria option, but don't change anything else really in the schools. And that's just getting you up to similar size components that you have at Chad elementaryaries. There was turn both Hickerson and East coffee into true two section buildings because they've got a couple of rooms that they're using for uh some shared like fourth fifth together. They've got special education in some rooms. So it was really looking at what could we do to the buildings to really make it a true two section and then how do we master plan for three section based on this information and looking through and going forward we said it doesn't really show that we're we're seeing growth in those
076two buildings in particular. Yes you're seeing at Hillsbury and North Coffee but if we just look at what those projections are we said it's less than 1% if you factor in the kindergarten and the K5. So we ran growth numbers out for the next 10 years at 1% 3% and 5%. A two section capacity elementary has a capacity of 260 kids. So if we're at 235 right now and looking out and granted I know that you're a little bit higher than that right now, but you could say over the next 10 years if the 1% is the number two section accommodates that. You might have a couple of rooms that get a little bit tight if it goes up and down per year, but two section would do it. You could aggressively plan and say
077what if the growth of growth is three to 5%. A three section elementary is 390 capacity 10 years out at even 5% you still have room in the building. It gets right up to that three section capacity. So my point is I think you're safe at two section and you could actually look at it and go if we see changes coming forward we might have to think about how we put those extra classrooms on to get to three section. But right now, based on a lower growth rate and right sizing the the buildings themselves with those additions, two sections seems to be the right approach to do it. It seem it's conservative. I always want to go conservative when we're looking at this and not tell you to overbuild. Uh but that's the the question
078is is anything going to change that's going to push those up to the 3 to 5% which is really aggressive compared to those numbers. you what this study did do is it identified a maybe a secondary problem is that you've got two other elementaryaries that are going to be pushing up higher than what their capacity is right now. So the question is how far away do you know happen to know how far away those schools North Coffee and and Hillsboro are from >> I'd have to take a look and see what made the most sense in terms of reboundering because that's a whole another problem in terms of how you look at it but that there's certainly a couple scenarios you could build three section at those two elementaryaries and then look at what made
079sense to shift everybody around but now you're shifting the whole Coffee County system to move kids into the right building but you want to fly the plane with the seats full, right? >> Not not necessarily like Well, yes, but North Coffee and Hillsburg, we don't know how far they are from capacity. >> Well, they're they're a ways away from >> Okay. >> Yeah, because we did some expansion out there already, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And we didn't study those buildings specifically. We only looked at those two. >> That would help, you know, if they've got room to continue to grow like they do for several years, then we don't have to worry about nothing there. But if we do have to worry about something there, we better have room somewhere else because we're
080not going to be able to build another school. I don't believe just in my opinion, but we better have the capacity to redistrict. North Coffee being an example, splitting at the lake because I think we go on the other side of Normandy Lake quite a bit from North Coffee. I do believe since we sold Jones, we could always buy Jones back. I I feel like if you build it, they will come. You add on, it's just same old, same old. And I I mean, and we've got to really do some thinking as a school board and what's the best to do because uh you know, these numbers are are true numbers, but I also know Coffee County and I know that it's going to be more than that by 2035. And right now we're, you
081know, we seem to be okay. And uh I don't know if we need to look at adding on and and knowing looking at this how where where the population is. You might say, >> well, I think Hickerson is pretty cramped, right, Dr. Crabtree? >> Yeah, >> but that's what I'm saying. We go back to what Robert said. You know, we may we may need to look at a different scenario of what to do with our our building funds. You have a lot of developing taking place right now on the outskirts of in the Jones right around Jones the old Jones Elementary >> right >> you have a lot of developing going on right there >> that >> but it's >> city schools city schools is not going to be able to accommodate >> well they
082they'll be the ones in it >> because you know that's that's the thing about it they really don't get a lot of building money I do not believe unless we spend Generally speaking, we don't talk about school numbers until after Labor Day. That's kind of when our student population number firms up. But if if I had to give you a guesstimate today, we're between 50 and 60 students short of where we were last year. For what it's worth, >> I don't know. Um, do we know why? I mean, I I I tend to think, and I could be wrong about this, um, that there is a trend for people to go homeschooling. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And for lots of different reasons. Um, it's becoming more popular. It allows families a flexible schedule for vacations,
083for everything. Um, we have a pretty strict dress code here. You know, there's several things and I hear a lot about that and we have a fairly um strict attendance policy and I hear a lot about that too and I'm not saying I disagree with it at all. I don't necessarily. But I think things like that can drive people to say I'd just rather homeschool and call my own schedule, you know. Um, a lot of the work now is done digitally anyway. And so a lot of people see, you know, we've got laptops at home and we handle it just fine when they're out for a week with the flu and we could just have our own schedule. And I get that. you know, two years ago, I wouldn't have understood it, but I do
084now. And I feel like that's a trend that we're going towards. And I don't think that we're probably going to regress from that. I I see that. I don't know, you know, and I'm not saying don't expand our elementarymentaries. I mean, for sure Hickerson I've been to and and I just haven't gone through East thoroughly, but I have Hickerson. I think they have one bathroom, right, that all teachers share. And maybe we don't need more classrooms. Maybe we do. But there's some of that administrative stuff there that like the guidance or the counseling office not being a dedicated area. >> Well, when Mr. Parker was there, I was kicked out of my office because our nurses station no longer has a restroom. So, they were in my office to use that restroom to take care
085of student need. >> Yeah. >> And so, I had to buy over another office. >> Yeah. Yeah. like the not maybe if if it's not more classrooms, there are still some very uh important needs to be addressed there. Even if it's not more classrooms and even if the enrollment numbers are going down, there's I think there still is a need for modification. But I just wanted to say that I feel like that trend is for homeschooling is becoming more popular. You may have something to add on that. Well, I agree with you on the homeschooling, but also when you look at our two schools and when you look at Hickerson and you look at East Coffee, they do the best they can to take those old buildings and try to make them look >> halfway
086decent. And that doesn't excite parents to put their kids in a school. >> Um, new buildings actually I think will bring some back in because they'll look at it and say, "Oh, progressive. We're we're seeing growth. we're seeing, you know, um and just, you know, going over to um Oh, Dearfield, sorry. And seeing the beauty of that school and I think Deerfield's not having that much of a pop problem. you're growing. >> Um, so it's just we've got old schools that need they need the work. They need >> a change. >> So if for nothing else, not even projecting on growth, we need those changes. >> Yes. Updates. >> I agree with Miss Beth. I I think if we're going to do anything, we need to build something new. >> Well, I would love to
087see something new >> and and re rethink what we're doing. Yeah. because you know we've added on to North we've added on and added on and added on >> and there comes a point where we need to stop and think what we're doing and and look at how our the parents of our schools what we're doing in our schools to draw these kids back in. And uh like you say that's that's the projection parents have is outside of that school. And the and the first the second perception is the person that's sitting there greeting them when they come in or not greeting them. And >> well, I think on that they're pretty friendly, but uh we can't make the outside of those schools are what the outside of those schools are >> and they look
088they're 50 years old >> because whenever people come come to Coffee County, especially if they have children, they want to know about the schools and they want to see them and that's what they look at outside. >> Yeah. >> But right now, they can't buy just an acre. [Laughter] you. >> I'm not selling mine. >> I hear you. >> They can't find mine. That's >> working in there. When we talked about, you know, the the changes, we also talked about facelifts and and a lot of that too and cleaning up a lot of stuff. So, new versus, you know, some of these renovations where it looks looks new. I mean, what's your feelings on that? So well hearing some of the discussion if you >> remember there were there were sort of three levels that
089we uh we brought back. One was just make the gyms cafeterias the same size as the other buildings. Basically do that that new union model there. But the real recommendation was address the rest of the school. Put uh renovate the office spaces expand the office spaces so you have more room. Renovate bathrooms build special education spaces that accommodate that work. So it was do the additions with fixing the school to get to that true two section and then the third option was to go up to three section. So these weren't just capacity items. The first one added no capacity at all and the last one was only capacity. The middle one was addressing the fundamental issues with the building. I'm a big believer in additions and renovations can really make a school nice. Can get
090them up to speed. Are they going to be the same as a new school? No. But they're also half the cost. So it it came down to a cost issue and a a you know a site issue, a lot more site work and displacement to do >> and that's a big deal. I mean we can talk about you know a lot of things but ultimately we have to be able to figure out how we're going to finance it and that's going to be a big challenge we have. >> Well I I think it's your buildings. It's your your school system not mine. But as I'm looking out there and thinking about the 2035 up, if you know you have big pending growth issues coming out 10 years from now, do you say let's build these
091two new schools right now and really tax to get that done or do you fix the two schools in anticipation of you're going to have to do some larger things in about 10 to 15 years. >> So do a band-aid and kick a can down the road or >> nicer than a band-aid. Do some surgery. do some surgery. >> So, you can make the outside of those two old buildings look modern. >> Do a lot. >> Okay. >> I can go get a facelift, but I'm still old. >> So, you're paying your knee doesn't work the way it used to, >> but we can't replace him. >> Yeah. Character comes with that. >> And there's something to be said for character. Thank you. >> It's certainly not an easy decision. >> Yeah. >> Any other
092questions? >> Is those I'm the one that sent you all that data. Um the industrial park is that where the the 2035 comes into play of those industrial parks that we've just come on you know we've just come on you know 1845 acres and an industrial park that we've just developed here or you know fixing to start developing and is that where some of that come into >> I think so I I think that's a portion of it really I I think the bigger story long term beyond 2035 is just sprawl from Rutherford County coming on coming on down that that certainly the industrial zone can put bodies in here uh but but really overall I think it's just spread over time. >> Thank you. Um I I also wanted to add to that that
093um development that we're seeing now, we don't necessarily see in the enrollment projections for a few years down the road, you know, as people move in there, families move in there, um have kids and and so on. um that does take a few years of you know lagged years from development to it showing up in um our data and in our projections. So um part of it is projecting you know future development you know acknowledging what what development's occurring now but like you said a lot of that is showing up beyond the time frame of the projection we we showed um earlier >> because I mean you could have a big industry come in here and hire a thousand people and it's out next to East Coffee that industrial park is out next to East
094Coffee. So if you have a big industry come in here, then that's going to shift all of that to that end. So I mean, I know that's hardly no way y'all can project that, but that happened in Mobile, Alabama. They they just had a big company moving down there. They hired 2,000 people >> on an industrial park that they had down there for 20 years. So I mean, you you you don't know. And I know that's I just wondering if that's how y'all was projecting that, you know. Yeah, because he's talking about the mega side. I'm sure you know that. >> Yeah. Uh and and you know, keep in mind we're also constrained as is uh you know, the entire county on the uh density question as well that there might be you know, enhanced
095employment and job roles from the mega site, but where will everybody live? You know, I I see I don't see the data for expansion, but I have walked renovation definitely. I just don't I just don't see the data. You know, we talking about the mega site and all that. I mean, I doubt we see the majority of it in our tenure here of development there. I mean, it's just like Blue Oval City and the Ford plant. I've been waiting for three years now to build the bridges going into the plant that they put on hold and there's no intention on when they're going to start it back uh in Jackson, Tennessee. So, you know, it's not flooding in as you would think. I just I don't know. There's too too many whims there to spend
096millions and millions and millions and millions on taxpayers right now. I think I think I just don't see the data. But I've definitely walked renovation in two schools. >> I guess I guess I have a a bad taste in my mouth over the renovations that we just got through and that's why I I'm kind of reluctant on that on that way to go. >> Definitely something to think about >> what you just said. >> Yeah, >> we do have a new team though. So >> yeah, >> that's good. >> We have different cont. >> There's that, too. >> All right. Any other questions for Wald and >> what you gut feeling? >> Like I said, our recommendation based on this would be I think you're very conservative to say, let's bring those two buildings up
097to the same standard as the other ones. Get the gym and the cafeteria the right size. The section address some of the spatial needs inside. you really could consider do you put even just two classroom capacity on which is not the same as going a three section just to give you a couple of flex rooms to as you have different groups go through but I think you'd be very safe doing that I I do think you still have the issue of you have two schools that have components and pieces that don't match the other >> make some decisions then we're going to have somebody's going to have to go down and arm wrestle with the county >> I think this gives a lot of a lot of data to that you study. >> I'm not
098the one. >> We'll send freedom. >> I didn't stop my chances tonight. >> Okay. Well, unless there's no further unless there's any further questions and uh gentlemen, thank you very much for coming out. This was great. Thank you. Thank you. >> Eye opening data. [Laughter] drive back through civilization. >> Thank y'all. It was very interesting. >> I love stuff. So, that was really interesting to me. >> I just took your communication. >> We do. I was like, just say, give me the bottom line, >> right? >> All right. >> Well, let's do a quick restroom break and then we'll reconvene for our last two agenda items. >> Yeah. >> Are we on break? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I'm telling you what, everybody wants >> Which one was it? And now and then We're back
099on the air. Welcome back to Coffee County Board of Education, our YouTube channel. So, um, we have two more agenda items. One is Mr. Hansert reached out to me and uh wanted to talk about consideration of Christmas bonus for employees not receiving the state's $2,000 um bribe or distribution. I shouldn't say bribe distribution. >> So, Mr. Hanser, >> no, I just I um >> that was good. It's kind of a uh always been a thing that for me to always remember our office people and our u classified I guess is what it is. Uh employees are and uh just trying to keep them that uh let them know how important they are to us, how much they're how important they are to our school system. Uh we couldn't do it without them. Uh they're just
100uh very very important to us, very valuable to us. uh our office personnel again, our bus drivers, uh custodians, like I said, uh teachers assistants, uh they're just, you know, very important to us and and some of them are barely making over 20,000 a year and uh we're very, you know, our school system's doing very well and uh just wanted to look at that uh and see if we might be able to do that. So any what would be the financial impact? I guess that's the first question we have to ask. >> Well, I guess the um I've done some I've done a couple different calculations, but I guess I'm not clear on um who includes like who you're specifically you're talking about everyone just classified. Um I have all the calculations. I just had
101>> Do you mind if Go ahead. A as we go back, this story started last spring and it was my understanding that all all parties that were participating in the educational process of our children were going to get a bonus. And then over course of time, no fault of anyone here, that list got whittleled just to teachers. Um, and then it was teachers dealing with students. Well, everybody in this room uh are in our school system that works in our school system. Echo what Mr. Hansert said. From our bus drivers to our cafeteria workers to our custodians to our educational assistants to our coaches to our central office staff, we all invest in our children. Um, Miss April, do you have a a guesstimate if we gave everybody that did not receive the $2,000 budget,
102if they worked for Coffee County Schools last school year, um, even the people that only worked half a year, because that was one of the requirements that was dropped in as well, had to work more than 120 school days. So, we're on a 10-month calendar, $200 a week. What would that number look like? >> So, this is classified. We're talking classified. Are we talking everybody? >> We're talking outside of our teachers that are going to receive it next month. Everybody else, everybody else, classified, non-classified. >> What would that number be? So I looked at our numbers based on right now and they should be pretty close. So it will be around 870,000 to give everyone outside of the like everyone that got it prior that didn't get the $2,000 from the state. Um we received
103around 600,000 um from the state department to take care of our teachers. So that puts us right around kind of when we've done the bonuses in the past, it puts us around 1.5, which is about a normal number that we would have came to in prior years. So I feel like the 870 um is pretty accurate, but going back and looking at previous school year and and doing it, it may be less, it may be a little bit more. >> So that's a tick more than are going to receive it. Correct. Um it could potentially be more but like I guess I used our numbers as of I think um right after we did all the hiring. So right on the first of first of August I don't know how we ended up last school
104year um on on employee numbers but that's kind of where we're at right now. >> We also looked at supervisory teachers that just didn't make that quite that cut off. is that >> we have coaches that we didn't pay. That would if you pay everybody >> that that would include >> them as well. >> About 15 people that didn't make that didn't get the $2,000 from the state either because they didn't work 120 days or they weren't in direct contact with students. That's 10 years after >> 870,000. >> The amount that um the dollar amount that was given to the to the teachers and the people that received it. That was what about 798 780 780,000 >> good as I remember from the budget amendment. Yeah, it was it was six something and then some
105benefits. >> So basically >> I think it's >> basically we're looking at half and half. I mean for all intents and purposes, >> but the but the $2,000 we paid out came directly from the state budget. >> Yeah. >> Or send the state >> and and the state a big chunk of it back in tax. >> Why would you do that? >> Stupid. So around 769 was with everything stupid >> the payout and the benefits. >> I agree. Yeah. Can't argue with that. >> We're going to make you have to do this. We're going to give you the money to do it. But >> that's going to make you have to do the other half. I mean it's stupid. >> Well, my biggest thing is, you know, we keep getting further and further apart on
106those on those people. We we've talked about it. We've talked about it. We've talked about it. It's time for us to do something about it. Put our money where our mouth is. Literally. You know, these people work their tails off. You know, we got custodians that who's the first person they they call whenever a kid gets sick, you know, and they're making they're they're they're topping out after 25 years. $18 an hour. >> Well, >> yeah. Well, my biggest thing is is, you know, >> we can't we can't operate the school system without >> every aspect, every employee. >> Yes, sir. >> Cuz if one group doesn't show up, you're going to be shutting down schools. >> Yes, sir. you know, and and that janitor or that teachers aid or that bus driver or that
107uh cafeteria worker puts in the work and the in the effort and you know, they're just as an important integral part as the teacher is. >> Yes, sir. >> And I think they deserve I think I think everybody deserves, you know, a bonus. I don't think it I don't think it was fair for the state to tie our hands, but uh you know, >> I don't think nobody here in this room would go against this. And I think everybody probably pretty well agrees that in our heart and in our seats and in our britches, we got to do this and it is what it is. I know what I'd like to tell the state for causing it, you know. But but I do want to say that, you know, that there's always going to be
108a separation of pay scale, >> right? >> Custodians never going to make what a 25-y year doctorate >> is going to make. Period. >> Well, no, but but I mean, >> and you know, but but but this deal right here, I mean, you're exactly right. You hit the nail on the head. I mean, the state, they done this on purpose just to make boards have to sit here and peel off some money and put it back into the system. Well, that's fine. That's right. At least it's a good reason, you know. >> Yeah. And I mean, the way I look at I mean, everybody deserves >> Yeah. >> deserves the bonus. Everybody works hard. Everybody does their job, >> you know. >> If you don't, >> one question that I do have and I just
109thought about that sitting here was >> what about part-time employees? What what I know you said you got to work 120 days or I mean what's >> So in the past we've given if we've given to one one set of people we've given to everybody so a part-time employee would get the same amount as a full-time employee. Okay. >> That's what we've done in the past. >> Okay. I mean that's fair. I was just I was just wondering because it just happened it just hit me. And if if a teacher landed in Coffee County schools in March, March, April, May, that's 600 about, you know, $200 a month. >> Time for their time and that lets everybody know that >> in the >> what we think that they're worth. They all everybody's part of our
110team has that. >> Are you saying that these bonuses would be sort of prrated? >> Yeah. if someone came on like >> so you have someone that worked maybe five months with us instead of the full 10 or 11 or 12 >> then in the past that's what we've done >> okay >> is we've prated it by month so that they don't get the same amount as someone who's been with us >> but also had to be with us >> at the end of the year >> so also in the past >> you left as on you >> we split >> that's fair >> I think it is fair >> also So we classify this as extra pay, not a bonus, right? >> That's correct. >> For tax purposes. Yeah. >> Okay. So it's not
111taxed like a bonus. >> We would include it in a normal paycheck and we would we put in a normal paycheck and then >> because bonus >> I want I want to say something on behalf of teachers on >> I want to say something on behalf of teachers. There was a reason why that $2,000 was given to to the teachers because they're on the front lines. They are probably uh more responsible for that those children than anybody else in that building and I'm for everybody getting it. But they are special and that's why that $2,000 was allocated. The way I look at it is because they were on the front lines. So we need to give them another 2,000 too because that bonus came from the state. Are we being fair to them by using
112taxpayer dollars and giving $2,000 to uh taxpayer money to everybody else but the teachers that money came from the state? I mean, that's something to think about. >> It is. And I mean, you know, I I see it from both sides, but like you said, >> they're also held accountable for those test scores, right? >> Whereas maybe our other folks are not >> as much. But what what I'm y'all yall understand what that's what I think too. >> But I'm thinking >> just from a teacher standpoint, they got that $2,000 from the state and now everybody else in that building they're getting $2,000 from the county and they're not. You see what I'm saying? >> Course that would make them >> kind of I mean that's brought this to you guys. That's what y'all want
113to do. just just the state the state bonus to our teachers will not go out until next month. >> They're going out in September paycheck. >> Can I skip that meeting, too? >> How many? So, that that would add to it. >> Excused absences. >> You could probably almost double that, Mel. Oh, >> 1.6 million instead of 870,000. >> Right. >> I guess my point is, Freda is those people. So, if we don't give them $2,000 and we let the teachers give it and we don't give it to the others, then they don't get nothing at all. >> What? What's >> I know I think that's not, you know, I know what is saying. I agree with both y'all, but I know what Freda is saying. We're not giving it to these teachers. Yeah. >>
114The state is >> we're not doing it. We didn't make that decision to give them the 2,000 in the beginning. >> Well, yeah, we did. We voted on we voted on to give them that >> by accepting the >> So we probably shouldn't have accepted it. >> Well, does it have to be bribe like a bribe? >> Does it have to be? >> We voted on to >> to do that so we could give that to the teachers. >> Does it have to be 2,000? >> We agreed to the bribe each, >> but I think we didn't know for just a little while, did or? No, we knew right then what it was for. >> Yeah, cuz it was those those stipulations were terrible. You know, >> they're very >> that was back in the
115spring. >> But we, you know, >> we signed >> No, argue with >> Holly just asked a question. No, I mean, I don't there's nothing set in stone. >> Sounded like tribe was good. >> But I just I think that we need to give these people something if we don't >> once you get a time to study about it. >> One other thing to think about too is our friends down at the other end of the building, you know, and if you start >> ladling Yeah, I know. But it's >> it's a reality. >> So, you know, if you start handing out a lot of bonuses and you know, then they start squawking down there at the other end of the building, too. So, I just throw that out there for your consideration. We may
116or may not care. But, >> well, I'm I'm for I mean, I'm agree with both of y'all. You couldn't pay them enough. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And if we've got it, you know, but I that just threw that out there because the state gave us the 2,000 for the teachers and the central office people didn't get it and the principles >> and see that's terrible. That is absolutely terrible. >> We do care. >> Our staff >> is not going to be they're not going to be hurt. Everybody get that receive that going through the Right. >> Right. >> But we have to consider and I want everybody to get this. Please hear me. But Tom made a valid point. We're about to go to the people on the other end of the building and ask
117for a lot of money. So we have to recognize ahead that this could be a source of you guys got plenty of money, you know. So, but I still would like to see her task get it. >> It's just a factor. I just throw it out there. >> But the thing is we're taking part of that big fund balance that we're have >> and we're reinvesting it in our people. >> In our people, >> you know, I agree. >> We're not wasting it. We're reinvesting it in our employees. I mean, that's the way I feel. >> And I I want to feed off that because, you know, you're exactly right because how many times we went down to the end of the hall and they want to preach to us about spending tax dollars. Spending
118tax dollars, spending tax. >> That's what we're in charge to do. We're not supposed to have a big old fund balance. We're supposed to use everything they allow us to have to better the education in Coffee County, right? >> But they can't figure that out. >> They're supposed to say we're not, >> Mr. Fargo. >> At least one of the commissioners anyway. I I just think >> who's mention we we've been talking about it since I've been here and we talk about it. We talk about >> spell what they said >> and we don't we're not we don't ever implement it and do anything about it and try to bring these these you know our people that takes care of us too. I agree with Miss Freda that our teachers are but a lot of
119our teachers wouldn't be where they're at either without teachers aids and those teachers aids are make a fraction in some cases of what they make >> and they are a critical piece of the puzzle. >> That's an understanding. >> And they are frontline people just along with the teachers. >> Yeah. >> You know if if if they're a teacher aid they're front line up there you know with the teachers too you know I mean They get something. >> Yeah. >> Well, we keep saying we want to use our fund balance on something that matters to help our teachers. >> They're going to try to find a way to get it. Well, one thing I'd love to see us do with our fund balance is find out from Scott what sort of programs we could or
120training we could get to our teachers or what we could bring into the school to help them bring these scores up and use some of our fund balance in that. >> That is an agenda item for the fall retreat, believe it or not. >> Good. Good. >> Well, metal detectors. You know, all of this is hinging around a big fund balance, but at some point we're all going to have to sit here as a board and we're going to have to depend on Miss April and Mr. Hartgrow to make sure how much because a lot of people don't realize, a lot of us board members that were here for a long time, we understand why there's a big fund balance here now. It's because we got a whole bunch of free money >> and kept
121taking from the county and putting it back acting like we were building up this big nest egg that at some point is going to have to cover the tab. >> I feel >> there's going to future there's going to be a shortfall and all that's going to have to be dipped into annually for about the amount of years that the co money carried >> before we ever balance out. Well, it's a good good possibility it could be next year that the shortfall >> Yep. They start coming in. >> Brilliance of our finance director looks like we're going to have another tattoo fund balance. >> Yeah, I'm >> It's not brilliance. It's just people spending money and our revenues came in better than I budgeted. So, >> well, so you know, even though it sounds like
122right now all these peaches and cream of $20 million or 22 and we're only hitting for this, we're only hitting for that. some point that's got to roll back into this because we're going to start picking up those pieces that we're not going to get and and it's only going to last so long picking up what we covered for only what four years, three years that we four years that we actually got COVID money. So took four years to build that kind of money up >> my whole time here >> probably take less than the four years. This is my fifth going on sixth I think mine in Freda's and you know it probably will go out quicker than it came in. >> Well, Mr. Shores pointed out that that fund balance was kind of
123built up too to kind of stretch the limits on things. Sure. >> It's but if you do the math of the co money in which we received >> and the math of what it is currently today >> the the fund balance we're actually less than it started with when I come on as a board member. If you factor that in the amount of money we took in in COVID money the 20 million we've actually dipped into what we started with which was a little over five million and I had a 1.3 million in restricted fund. The rest of it up to five was in unrestricted. We've got a little bit less than that if we factor in the amount of money we took for CO >> cuz it took me three years to figure out
124we actually got $18 million with co money. >> Mr. Argo, >> Mr. Baylor, my recommendation is the people that didn't receive the B money state bonus that we supplement everybody else, certified, non-certified, the people that did not receive the state monies. My recommendation will be that everybody receives that bonus. >> So 2,000. >> Yes, sir. >> And I'll make that recommendation at the next board meeting in September. >> We'd have to prepare a budget amendment for that then. So >> yeah, if if >> which means that it's going to be subject to the guys down at the other end of the building. So just >> Well, let them be the ones that tell everybody else that they can't get in. So >> I will say that I've never had I know that things have been
125different in the last few months, but I've never had any negative com comments from either the commission or budget and finance about giving giving extra pay. I've never >> Okay. They are human. >> Yeah, >> they still understand. >> Our folks do a absolutely great job and you can pull whatever professional title out whether they're a educational assistant or bus drivers, our teachers, our administrative team, everybody's on the road. >> Okay. And so we would prepare a budget amendment to be considered at the September board meeting. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. So everyone in the that worked 2425 school year that did not receive a state bonus >> that is still here >> that's still employed >> and >> finished last year's what I said >> that even includes Mr. the others >> my
126department's gonna love y'all >> thanks Mr. Sure. >> Miss Miss Melson, I got a question. Um, from our last board meeting, u roughly I think was looking at adding roughly two and a half million to fund balance. So, if we do this, I mean, we're still adding money to fund balance out of last year's budget. So, >> we're not really going >> we're not going back any and we're not really reaching into our current fund balance to pull it out. >> Good point. Good point. >> That's true. And so that what I presented last month will the split between restricted and unassigned will be a little bit different. >> So, but our fund balance is going to grow at least 2 million, >> right? But I mean, if we do this, then it's going to
127take some of that. But I mean, we're >> we're still >> got a little growth >> to the fund balance even by doing this. >> Okay. >> And even by doing this and even if we did do the raptor we were presented with earlier tonight, >> right? >> All right. >> All good. So, we'll see that September board meeting. >> Okay. >> All right. Last item on the agenda is discussion clarification on use of facil facilities uh fee waiverss and um Chris and >> what's that? >> I say Mr. Shores he knows it. Well, um I just I want to say something about this. Some Robert's rules of order, procedural things just before we launch into this a little bit is um there was some question about the the workout Wednesday vote. Um and um
128I I did some research after um Scott and Chris reached out to me and if you want to change things you can in a meeting you have to make a motion to reconsider can only be made in the same meeting. If it's done in a later meeting you have to either make a motion to amend a formerly approved item >> or a motion to resend. Correct. >> Well, motion to rescend is pretty much a motion to recons reconsider previously adopted. >> Well, there >> and the previously adopted breaks you from one meeting to the next. Otherwise, rescend is just in or uh >> reconsider is in the same meeting before the end of that meeting. >> Rescend there are two separate motions. So, um so that's just Robert's rules of order thing. Um I will
129say one thing is we approved the workout Wednesday. Um this is a little wrinkle in in this is that normally you can reconsider things. Um but a little wrinkle in this is we approved an agreement with Mr. Taylor for Workout Wednesday and the facility fee waiver is really kind of a contractual agreement and since it's a contractual agreement, you can't really break that unless both parties agree to that. So, this is a little wrinkle here that is not really that that you can't address by >> I wasn't here. >> Yeah. So I just wanted to before we get into the discussion here I just wanted to point that out and I would also say in the meetings um we can also if if you know if you don't understand something or you want more time
130to think about it then you can also make a motion to postpone or if you have you know for me you know I've taken like three or four classes on Robert's rules of order I still don't understand everything. So, if people want to do something or make a motion, then articulate what it is and we'll we'll figure out what the proper format of a motion is to, you know, whatever you want to do. We'll we'll figure it out so it corresponds with Robert's rules of order, but I just wanted to lay out kind of a little procedural thing just so so you know what we're dealing with here before we launch into this discussion. So, Mr. Hanser, >> what's that? >> What happened? We we approved the the workout Wednesday and there was some some
131question about it after after the meeting. >> Well, I think it was requested that we wave the fee for the use of the gym, >> right? >> That's what we custodial. We waved all fees. Yeah. >> All fees. >> Yeah. >> Have we not waved our fees before? >> No. I think I wasn't here. Wasn't in y'all's little deal here. Y'all have fun with that. But Mr. Schwarz, correct me, but I believe year in year out, if it was a school employee, we waved everything but the >> custodial custodian, >> sorry, building fee. >> Yeah. >> Everything but the building fee if they was an employee. And we've done that consistently year in year out for anyone, everyone. because we've got couple ner uh nurse that does the basketball at some of the elementarymentaries. I
132mean, good lord, I've seen a bunch of those over the years. >> That is correct. >> Mr. Helcher, did you >> Oh, well, I mean, that's exactly what right what you said. at at at the what I got bombarded on and got texts after texts about was um the hitting facility. Of course, uh whenever we built it, we had turned down a lot of people not letting them use the hitting facility, a lot of teams um and and they were exactly right. And I I got bombarded um and asked me why that I voted the way that I did. And uh I think so did a lot of other people and uh that's whenever I called Mr. uh Ballard and told him it uh you know asking to reconsider or or talk about this because
133and another thing that the money was being paid directly to the the coach that responded to this and he was going to be I asked the question directly to him where the money was going and he said it was going to him and that created another dumpster fire uh about him, you know, receiving the money for himself. And um that's that's where we're at. That's that's you know, >> and I I will have to apologize. I I thought the the other thing was the other issue was the actual facility use permit was not on in the agenda packet. I thought it was there. So, I got to do a better job at double-checking things to make sure. >> But but it don't really matter, though. I mean, uh, just from what I've heard right here,
134you talked somebody somebody contacted you about use of the hitting facility and they couldn't rent it and use the hitting facility. That's a little different when I'm Is this Workout Wednesday basketball? >> Yeah. >> And Mr. Taylor is the head basketball, boys basketball coach at the high school that is responsible for the Florida gym anyways. And he's an employee. And it was voted to wave the fees as we did with everybody else. All fees. >> We waved all fees. Yeah. >> All fees. So that's the only difference. >> No custodial. Nothing. >> Okay. Well, I would be in favor of going back to at least the custodial like we have done everybody else. >> Building >> or building. Okay. Keep correct. That's fine. >> I'll catch you on. But I I would like to get
135in line with what we've done before. But but Mr. Hansard, I I'm trying to find out what the comparison between somebody else and one of our employees that is in charge of that gym and that and I'm very anxious to hear more about the supposedly he was going to put the money in his pocket. I'm I'm I'm almost certain I don't think that man would >> No, he said >> Yeah, he said >> he they're charging $10 per per kid to participate in the in the workout Wednesdays. And >> is this a fundraiser? >> No, that money is going back to him. >> Private profit. >> It's private profit. >> Yeah, >> that's where the issue lies. >> Yeah, >> it is private. >> Private. Okay. Well, you can't do that on school property. No
136ways. >> Right. Right. right? >> Wave the fee or not is irrelevant because you can't >> whether whether it's SSO agreements or rules and regulations like we've been through school support or >> it's no different than a teacher >> you can't you can't >> wanting to have private tutoring in our building and we can't we don't allow that and we can't allow that right >> for them to make money. So we signed and so >> we don't not to mention the liability issue. >> Who signed the contract? What what is the >> well that that's a facility used be is basically the the agreement. So but if we signed it and it's not something that's allowed >> then then it would be invalid anyway. So >> yeah. Well Scott that that law that you sent
137me earlier the one um >> the TCA Yeah. And it specifically says in it, the board of education of the respective municipalities shall have the right to permit municipal school buildings and municipal school property to be used for public, community, or recreational purposes under such rules, regulations, and conditions as may be prescribed from time to time by the board of education. This is the part. provided that this right shall not extend to the use of school buildings and property for private profit. >> Right. >> Well, but I believe it comes down to being a school employee. >> Well, it's also private profit. Yeah. >> Well, if you go if you go to our policy 3.206 206. Um, number two on there says, "Use of facilities for an extended basis or use of facilities for profitm
138purposes must initially be approved by the board. Upon board approval, the director of schools may approve subsequent uses for the same group. Okay, this is then you know under the community use of facilities. Of course, also at number 11 under there, it says groups not already covered by the board of education's liability policy must file a certificate of liability insurance copy in the amount of $1 million with Coffee County Board of Education. That's groups. If you go to section or policy 5.608, 608 which is the tutoring for pay which is more to an individual. You know it it strictly states on number four under is school facilities may not be used for private profit. you know, the the community use of school facilities. I can see allowing for a pro a far profit if it
139was a group wanting to use it for a fundraiser, you know, something like that. But, you know, to me, as far as the way I understand it and look at it, using it for for private basketball lessons is tutoring. And that's that's a private individual. That's private profit. And so, it would be covered under that policy. >> I I think I I'm agreeing I think I'm agreeing on both sides, but I think we're we're we're not staying in line with the proper procedure of what's going on right here. I think I'm agreeing with you that this is not right in the aspect of I swear as an employee you're definitely not supposed to make money off school property as an employee of the school system. Board of board of education members count the same. The
140the second aspect of it is the the way you presented it just then we couldn't rent the rent it out to Bonnaroo. No, >> we couldn't rent it out to Bonnaroo, the high school, to come in and do their ticket sales during the summer. >> No, we can >> because somebody else is making money off of it. >> No, we we can. That's that's what I'm saying is as a com as a community, you know, we could rent it to an outside source entity to come in. They can make money on it. And it's just like we approve it once and then Mr. Hardgrove could reapprove it every year. far like Bonnaroo to come in. Yeah. You know, yes, they're making money, but they're, you know, that's considered a lease because they're leasing the building
141from us. >> Well, when you said that a while ago, you you was like in there like you couldn't, nobody can come in and use our facilities and make money from them. No. Yeah, they can. >> Yeah, they can. You just said that. Yeah. Yeah, they can. But I think your whole issue behind this and what's happened right here >> is you can't make money as an individual by yourself. Not to mention, we missed the lick on there about waving the building fees, >> right? >> I guess, >> you know, being a school employee and coming in and making money off of, you know, the school facilities. >> Yeah. >> You know, I think if it was the basketball booster club, different story. >> Well, if all the money, >> total different story. >> Well,
142if all the money that he was collecting, if it was going back into the general basketball fund, that would be a different story. >> Really? I I think we need to rethink this because I I think all of us realize that that basketball I call it a camp is something that would be welcomed by the community for for parents of kids that would $10 is nominal fee for a child to elementary child to to go to a camp a basketball camp >> and if you know if we need to figure out how to make it legal >> through a club >> and and I don't think I don't think I don't think He was there to make money. >> Yeah. Maybe don't use the school gym. >> No, you do it as a fundraiser. >>
143If it's a fundraiser and the money is going into the account, there ain't nothing we can do about it. That's rule. That's >> Well, if the money went back into the the uh equipment or whatever was needed, I mean, you know, there's >> a small booster club. >> I mean, if he put it into a booster, I'm assuming that's when he does with his fundraisers, he has to put the money into his athletic account at the school. >> There's two issues. One is the fee waiver. We waved all the fees, which is fine. We can do that as a board. >> We can fix that. >> So, I don't I don't have a problem with that. But >> the second thing is you can't even allow it to begin with to go to his personal
144sale. >> Right. Right. So, >> that's the legality of it. >> So, he's going to have to resubmit. He really needs to resubmit and tear that one up >> or >> and resubmit the right way through the booster club >> and go from there. We could do that and then you can just, you know, vote to resend and then uh have him submit a new one and then go from there because >> that's what it would be. And then >> we're violating our own terms. So it >> and I could be wrong. We do need to double check that on >> Can I say something really quick? I won't take up time. Uh but o also you know there's a Tennessee code of ethic teacher code of ethics uh and I have it cited on
145here Tennessee code annotated um that teachers will not use their educators educators professional relationship with the student for private advantage. Now am I saying that's happening? I don't know. But what we don't want to get into, I don't think, as a district is creating an environment that um allows this paytoplay kind of thing. Um, meaning, you know, it it and I and I had a a parent, a citizen call me about this today saying, you know, a few years ago, uh, there was a pro sports program here where a coach was offering private lessons. And the kids felt very obligated to sign up for the private lessons and pay the coach to be to to have those lessons. and obviously they're getting an advantage over other players on the team. That comes into the whole
146paytoplay thing and we don't want to create that environment where kids feel like if I don't sign up with private lessons from my coach or a coach in within the system, I'm going to be behind. That's that's not an that's that creates inequity there between the players. And so really, I think we have to just I'm not saying this is what's going on, but we have to be mindful of our coaches of our teams offering private lessons. You know what I'm saying? Um because it can create that breeding ground for if you don't sign up for the private lesson, you're at a big disadvantage on the team. And I don't want that for our kids here. I want level playing ground. >> Well, I agree. Well, I you know, we were the ones that decided
147it, but I was looking at it as a camp. I mean, you know, they have those camps in the summer. And didn't he say that there were uh basketball players going to be there helping? So, it's not actually private lessons. It's >> just something that simply should have been run through the booster club if he's going to stay within the laws and the rules of what he can and can't do with school fun, get money generated on school property like that. Well, >> I just I just read the SSO book again. >> I just want to tell y'all this. >> So, we have done this before. We have approved these things before. >> That's what I thought. >> So, I just want you to be aware that we have done that before >> where somebody's
148taken money for >> Well, I mean, Andrew Taylor did a basketball camp >> and they pocketed it. I'm sorry. No, that went through the that went that went >> but it went but it went through there. It went >> that's that opens up a whole another can. >> Good lord. Listen, it it but you before we start sitting here trying to just slander people and start trying to start all of this as if these coaches are doing all this payforplay nonsense and crap. When we have one like that right there, why don't we ask Miss April if she could touch base with the high school and see if the funds that they generated for that camp went into their athletic accounts? Cuz if the money went into their athletic accounts for girls basketball and boys
149basketball, that's 100% within the law. >> I just wanted you guys to be aware that I know >> COP and and Andrew's been approved for a camp before. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Let's find out before we start slandering in public. >> Yes. >> On camera. >> Let's make sure where things went. And so we're comparing apples to apples. >> Well, and and I agree with that that we definitely need to be careful. >> Yes. >> Um but you know, I was not at the meeting, but I did catch up on YouTube. Uh and Coach Taylor did say that the $10 is for me. So he >> Oh, I'm not saying about this. I'm not saying I've been said right here tonight on that one right there that obviously if he said that right there that's
150against that's against law >> right policy that's against law >> I mean the whole thing about this here is the you know is it legal or not I do believe >> you know and that's what we got to go back and revisit you know >> and you know >> because if it's not legit then then it's not a legitimate contract so that >> right I said it was a contract under false pretenses >> and we need to figure out a solution for it because I don't think he's I don't think he's trying to make money off of it. >> I don't think he's doing any of this to be >> but it needs to be handled properly. >> So the false pretenses I don't think is was intent. >> I don't want people sitting here
151watching this to hear the word false pretenses and take it as well. >> Well, I lied to the board so that I could do this and put it in my pocket. But I mean things of that nature take place before. >> Yeah. But at the same token, you know, we could have, say, an auto mechanics teacher say, "Well, I want to use the auto mechanics equipment at the high school and the classroom and the lift and everything else, and I and I want to maybe teach uh tutor students on that or fixed cars, repair vehicles, using the high school's equipment classroom." And I'm not saying this has ever happened. That's just an example. We could say the same thing about the culinary arts classroom. Um, and so I, you know, I I it's it's illegal.
152>> What are we saying, though? >> I'm just saying >> what are they doing? I mean, what are the what are the what are >> using the facilities for private forriv private gain? No. >> I'm not saying those are just abstract examples. I don't know. I don't think that's ever happened. But if we open this can of worms and start it, >> you can't start it, >> right? >> It's against the law. You can't start it. So automatically if he's putting the money in his pocket and it's not going to approve school support organization or the booster club that's within the schools and operates under the school's umbrella of the tax ID number. >> Yes, we >> they can't do it. >> Well then why don't we do this? Why don't we um Mr. Hardgrove
153can get a hold of him and have him withdraw that and we will >> You ain't got nothing to resend then. If he withdraws it. >> If he withdraws it. >> You don't have nothing to resend. Otherwise, we can vote to res up. >> Yeah. And he can resubmit without any personal financial money coming in. >> We've been through this so many times. We're making a big circle here. >> Go to the booster club. Either way, you know, >> it's either the it's it's the approved school support organization >> for that sport >> or the school's athletic account. That's your two choices to fund monies into and out of school. and he should be fine with that because he's getting a $2,000 extra pay. >> For real. >> Hey, when we're talking about rescending something,
154I think there's something else we need to consider because we already voted as a group to just give the 2,000 to not add to that. You know, we voted to just give the 2,000 to the teachers as per required by the state with that money. So, we'll have to resend that, won't we, to do another motion, >> send it to everybody else. No, you're leaving that. This is like a secondary motion to add everybody else. >> Totally separate thing. >> We have to look and see what that motion was because uh >> I can look back at past agendas. I think it was just a budget amendment to give a >> but we voted, you know, we voted to only give the 2000 to >> Yeah. We voted >> we have voted we voted to
155accept >> the state law >> the state and give >> the state funds for the teachers but we did not agree with the purpose or the reasoning that we were receiving the >> but I do know we discussed >> that's what we voted on >> but we did discuss >> and of course we voted the amendment the budget amendment to cover it. So, you would just be doing a you would just be doing a motion this time to include everybody else with a $2,000 bonus, >> right? >> Everybody that skipped with a $2,000 bonus, right? >> Yeah. I don't know if that needs to be a separate action item or if the budget amendment covers that. >> I'll just We can look back at previous >> I think that would need to be a separate
156item. >> I think it'd be a separate item, but we already have a main motion just a certain amount. Yeah, I think I think so. I think >> I think would be better off to >> I think it would be cleaner. >> I think Chris is right on that. >> Yeah, I think it would be cleaner. >> So, all right. So, is that if he if he agrees to remove that, then we don't really need to resend and he can resubmit and we can put it back on as as an agenda to >> consider it, you know, a new. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Does that work for everybody? that address everybody's >> concern. Okay. >> Can I ask one question? One question about the bonus of back to the extra pay one more
157time. >> The intent was to give that at in December, correct? Is that what I understood? Is that what >> I think that's what we'd like to see. >> I'd like to see it. I'd like to see it. >> Okay. >> Did board members get that too? >> We didn't get We didn't get an interest bonus. >> Huh? >> Where are we? Don't be greedy. Don't >> Don't be greedy. You're getting your $15 for this meeting. >> Teachers got all summer off, so I took it off, too. >> Three short three quick items. Policy committee meeting. Hopefully, we'll set one of those up. I believe Miss >> I want 42 on the agenda. >> Okay. World record sports in full swing. Got a ton of stuff going on with a lot of great kids wearing
158the red and black. And I would like to re uh recognize Dr. Kathy Crabtree in the back. She has been selected, nominated and selected uh by the Tennessee Department of Education as part of the rural principal network and she'll be able to collaborate >> collaborate with us with other principles in our state. Uh and these principles uh serve in districts like ours. So full of great folks. So congratulations >> board meeting recognition coming up soon. >> Oh yes. >> Now our flag policy is that going >> hopefully that will come up during the uh policy committee and >> got just to clarify. Okay. >> Take off it. Call it out. >> Everybody get together. >> If I'm not there Freda will take over. She's the vice or not. for everybody. >> Uh, not before the
15930th, would you think, Freda? Because I know you're not going to be here, and I probably won't either because the horse show starts Wednesday and I'll be over there pretty much every night. >> September. >> H. >> Why can't you do it September? >> Get the second, third, fourth. >> Uh, you might push it a few days past the first. >> It takes me a little bit of time. >> I might not be able to be able to drive. hard to have it for the for the board meeting. >> What's the fall retreat date? >> I didn't think we had to get any more in before September >> meeting. Do what? >> The 23rd, I think, of September. >> We may want to try to get that in so that we can have that on
160our next board meeting. >> By the September meeting. >> The policy. >> Yes, ma'am. So then >> it had to be next week, but I'm not going to be there. So >> I can't either. >> Well, no, I'm not. >> There's plenty of There's plenty of a quorum with us two not being there. So >> put in char Beth would be Beth would be the remaining board member. >> Now you're in charge. >> But that's fine. some principal here. >> That's perfectly fine. I mean, it'd be her and three, four principles. >> Mr. Cordell. >> Mr. >> Yeah, Mr. Cordell. >> Well, the second we're going to hit county >> and you're only talking about five. >> A few more than that, but not >> not what happened. >> Come on, Beth. I showed you
161how to do 38 in an hour and 45 minutes. >> I think we've got some interesting ones coming up, so I don't know. Um, >> well, we only pushed one. >> That's all we pushed. Is some of those others the ones that you were going to bring up anyways during the meeting? Yeah, we didn't go through the good. I don't feel so bad. There was just one. >> The latest we could do it would be September the 3rd. I mean, that's pushing me at that. >> Labor Day. >> No, Labor Day. September the 1st on Monday. The season opens at noon. I can't do the second, but I can possibly do the third. >> Do not interrupt. >> September second. >> I could possibly do the third, but don't look for me on the second.
162>> Teacher conferences are on the fourth. Well, we >> we stand adjourned.