001for and um this meeting uh was uh recommended by uh Miss Peacock Hodgej to discuss the director of schools and um so it's basically we're kind of normally we sit down here but uh we did it in this fashion because we know there's probably going to be some people coming fill up fill up the room. So so we will uh so we are doing it in this work session in this format today up here. So yeah, broken chairs aside, not anymore. I'm good at cold. So we have three candidates. Oh, it's on the screen here. On the screen. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, I got it. We have three candidates we interviewed uh last week. Dr. Dr. Cornelius, Dr. Crabtree and Mr. Hardrove. And that is going to be our selection. Uh we're going to
002vote on that at the special called meeting um come 5:00. And so that that's basically the only thing that's on the agenda for that meeting. Um so here we have some open discussion. And uh Miss Peacock Hodgejs, you're you're the one that uh put me on the spot there. So you can lead off. I thought you'd be leading, but okay, here we are. It just seems crazy to me to not discuss something aside from one very controversial topic. I don't know that there's ever been anything we haven't discussed. And so, it's hard for me to wrap my mind around us not talking about these interviews. And I've never hired a director of schools before. Maybe this is not how you do things. But I value all of your input. And I also value it being
003put out there for the public to see so that they can understand. So don't know that I really want to start off by just saying a bunch of stuff, but that's my thought process on why I wanted us to do this. Okay. So we are I feel like this is all me. Well, we're all free to chime in here, too. And and you know, Okay. In my mind, I thought we would have like a round table. And this is pre-in. I just assumed we would do like a table with all of us and each say how we scored people and where we saw strengths and weaknesses. And apparently we're not doing that. And do we want to? I mean, does no one want to do this? I think that's uh I think that's what your
004suggestion was. it was. But I mean, I'm I'm one of a group, so if that's not something everyone wants, but I'm sure everyone watching wants to know why we're about to do what we're going to do. So, we can go around the table here. Um, before we get going on that, I think, uh, Miss Holly had Miss Holly had had something she wanted to say, too. I I I'll help you. Thank you. I was if I had known I had to do this, I would be more prepared. Well, it's okay. Um, so I didn't mean to put you on the spot. Oh, but you did. Um, so I wasn't really prepared to do what you were talking about, but I'm fine with doing that. Um, if you would like to. Um, and we don't have
005to. I'm totally fine with that if everybody wants to do that. It's, you know, I'm good with whatever. So um but more along the lines of what I was um my thoughts were um really is not so much about the candidates but about the process that we followed for hiring and interviewing the entire application process. Um, my concerns are that TSBA, when we contracted with them and paid them, I think $16,500 to um, help us in our search, we were promised that we would get three to four candidates. Um, we uh, had 17 applicants. I think one of those ended up withdrawing, eventually two, but one at the time, and we were given two. We were not given three to four. um initially and then in all reality we were given one and this is
006a big concern of mine because giving us one candidate because let me just say for those of you who don't know one of the two candidates we were given was set up with an interview for director schools for Ray County which is was her hometown and she was selected So essentially we were given one and giving us one is giving us no choice. That's not a choice. So that's my one of my issues with the process that we've taken is that we were only given one applicant one choice. That is no choice. That's giving us one person. Um so if we were to try and and go into contract with someone TSBA um recommended, we don't have but one person. So that's one of my concerns. Um I don't know how it happened like that.
007I don't know why we were only given one. I don't think it was explained really out of 16 people. So that's that's one issue I have with the process. The other issue I have is that um there was really no window of time or a buffer between the interviews that we did last week and around for second interviews. Um, and I just feel like that in a a position of this caliber that affects this entire community, not just parents of children in the system, in some way, every member of this community is a stakeholder in this. And I feel like that a second round of interviews would have been extremely appropriate. And in that second round of interviews, I would have liked to have seen um no questions provided to the candidates in advance. That
008way um no answers can be rehearsed. They can't be scripted and candidates are just answering cold and it would give us a better idea of um how they would respond under pressure and problem solving techniques on a whim. basically. So, um anyway, uh I I guess I was, you know, contemplating two options and I don't know if anybody in here is interested in doing either. And if not, I if we do have an interest in doing either of these, I'll be happy to make a motion. I won't waste everybody's time if there's no interest. So, but the two options that do you want to go ahead? Oh, this is a work session. So, we can't make motions. I know. I'm talking about at the meeting later on at five. Yeah. That So, instead of taking
009up everybody's time at the meeting, I'm happy to just discuss it here and if there's no interest in opening up the application pool again or doing a second round of interviews, I won't take up anybody's time at the meeting. So, I want the meeting meeting to move quickly if we can. So, um, but anyway, the two things that, um, I considered possibly asking for would be to open the application process back up again. I know there was a resume sent out after the application window opened. It was from a person who wanted to apply um but didn't out of respect for the candidate that actually withdrew and went to Ray County because uh that person was a coworker uh with her and did not want to step on her toes. So, but that person is
010highly qualified if we wanted to consider um him. So, opening the application process up would allow us to take a look at him. um who is has a a long list of credentials uh very very impressive and I appreciate him his interest was really peaked but he did not want to step on that other candidates's toes who withdrew uh the other thing I would like to possibly put on the table is the second round of interviews where questions are not provided I just feel like it would allow us to do a more thorough um not really investigation but for lack a better term, just um I just feel like it makes the process more thorough, more transparent um and it would allow us to make a decision with um a higher level of confidence with
011that second round of interviews. Um and that's really all that I have. So, Mr. Co. Well, I have to agree with Matthews on um a lot of what she's saying. Um, but you know, due to time and everything, I understand, you know, a lot of people may be against the opening it back up, but I think at the very minimum well ought to have a second round of interviews. It can be short, but you know, thing is, no large company is going to go out and hire somebody to run their company by one round of interviews and they already have the questions to answer. I mean, I personally myself, I think that's a crazy way to do things. Um, you know, maybe have one around like that, but you know, you cannot get a feel
012for the actual candidate by doing that. You know, you got to, you know, they're going to have to shoot from the hip, so to speak, in order to get a good feel for if they're capable of handling the stress, you know, whatever may be thrown at them during the interview process. That's all I've got to say on it. Okay. Mr. Cordell, have any comments on this? Yes and no. Okay. We've all lost sleep over this. We wrestle with it and talk with people and we want to do what's best for our system, for our kids, for our county. And uh I can understand Holly's concern about a second round of interviews. I don't know when, you know, I'm really concerned about with the schedule we've got, the timetable we're up against and whatever and what
013that may do down the road to the system, but uh it makes a I can see the point of having some questions in an interview with no questions provided beforehand so we can just see what's on people's mind and let them give a give a response that quickly. Uh it's tough tough tough. This is one of the tough toughest challenges we've had and uh but we're going to do the right thing whatever that is and we've been praying for wisdom and discernment and trying to reach out and do what is best for our system for our team for our county for our students and teachers and whole staff and whatever. So, um I'm open to more discussion on that. But uh anyway and uh the candidate that the other candidate that Miss Holly mentioned I
014talked with that person's spouse last Friday or Saturday whenever it was and uh she said he would be he's okay with staying where he is or whatever but he is very capable very capable and I kind of regret I think we all do the the way it worked out with only having two candidates provided in advance. I certainly s thought we would get three or maybe even four so we could review and consider and whatever. So I felt like our hands were almost tied a little bit with just and I understand the one dropping out and the wine and all that stuff but uh made it tougher on us but we want to get the right candidate for the county. So with that I'll shut up. [Music] Let me start off by saying I'll be
015glad when this is over. Um, we had three candidates. We made the choice to interview within our county. We had two very qualified people come forward from within our county. We had one from who is just really within our county. Um, so I feel like already we've had three qualified candidates and we're not going to find much of anything better out there than what we've already interviewed. So, as far as interviewing more, um, no. I have no interest in interviewing anymore. I'm satisfied with the three that we have interviewed already. Um, as far as the second round, if the other board members feel like they need that, I don't have a problem with it. I always made sure I sat across from them at supper and I interviewed them the whole way through supper. So,
016I felt like I had that second round of interviews. That was a good chance to get know the candidates, to know what was on their hearts, to know how they felt about certain things. Um, I'm not going to shut the door if if some of the board members feel like they need the second round of questions, but as far as as um opening it up again, that's not I think we have put our system through eight months of this and I think it's time it comes to an end. So that's my opinion on that. Mr. Harder. I would uh say that I, you know, I'm happy with what we've had. I mean, we we actually had four uh as well. Uh we uh we can't help that u that one dropped out. That wasn't TSB's
017fault. Uh in my in my mind, it may be in somebody else's. they couldn't uh when they brought us the two candidates that they had uh they had no earthly idea of what her decision was going to be. Uh so I mean in my mind we had four great candidates, you know, uh and we was prepared to interview her. U she made a decision to go to Ray County. That's her decision and uh where her family's at and I don't blame her. Um but for myself, I would be fine with what we've got. uh and and and in the process that we're in uh as well. But I would be glad to uh to do what the the rest of the board uh voted to do. Uh but uh as for myself, uh I'm okay
018with uh with the procedure that we're going through. And uh Jones, you want to jump in? I know. What are we doing? We're kind of talking about the process and and uh um Miss Holly brought up uh whether we wanted to interview some other people or or do some additional interview rounds. She brought up a couple points there. So So that's kind of see if you have any thoughts on that. If not, we can I got a couple things I wanted to point out, too. show. Well, I have never I haven't had any interaction with any of these candidates outside of our interviews and eating a meal with them. And uh I think I can make my decision tonight. All right. Tom, can I say a couple things now that I'm not so put on
019the spot? All right. You're going back on your spot. Yes. That's okay. I'm I'm okay once I warm up to it. It's hard going first. It is. Especially when I wasn't I know my thought process wasn't there. But so I do like our candidates. Like I'm I'm pleased with our candidates. I don't want them to feel insulted in any way by any of this discussion that is happening at this moment. I think we're a little unhappy with TSBA's process because we spend a lot of money for this. And Mr. shores, we jump all over you when there's only one bid for something because we want to see more than one bid. And to me, this is no different than that. So, it's not that we're not happy with our candidates. We're me, I should say
020me, I am not happy with the money spent because I was expecting it to be a little different. Um, that being said, I I know Dr. Dr. Crabtree and I know Dr. Cornelius and I do not know Mr. Harrove. I've listened to him speak for an hour and that's it. I have tried very very hard to be unbiased, but it's hard to lean towards someone I've never spoken with. So, I understand the next round of interviews being helpful for myself. Anyways, the more I can speak with someone and understand where they're coming from, the better. I've scored all my interviews, but aside from my interviews, all I know is my personal thoughts on things, and that's not based on anything for one of our candidates, and I don't think that's fair to him really. Um,
021I just wanted to make some points and clarifications here. one. Um I I personally think it would be we've had three candidates here that have gone through the process that we published and we publicized the time frame, the piring process. We they went through it. They took the time to do it. They they did it right and I think we got three good candidates. it would be an absolute disservice to these people to say that that they're not good enough and we want to go out and start looking at at other people. And I think that's what we're saying. Nobody ever I don't think any of us think that. Well, I think that's the message you said. Okay. I don't think so. I mean, anytime I've been called in for a second interview for a
022job I was applying for, um, I was thrilled to go for a second interview. Second interview. talking about bringing other people in and that type of thing is I I think you kind of and two is considering the dust up we had last week at the middle school with the hiring process and and you know talking about policy and things like that. We have actually published uh and followed a procedure and a timeline that was put out there to the public and that um we would probably be a little hypocritical if we held the middle school to the hiring process and we kind of violate our own hiring process here. So that's kind of my opinion on that. Also on the second interviews, we did propose last Friday because we had Dr. Lonus' spot open
023to bring in the three candidates for, you know, 30 minutes each to interview and got a very there was two people that that were interested in that. And so we got a very lukewarm response to that. So we just kind of cancelled that because we didn't, you know, um get get a get a good response on that. So, so those are just some some clarifications. I think with our timeline and there's a number of other factors out there that that really trying to open the process up again um would be challenging and I know there are some board members that are going to be out of town and that's going to make it that have been putting off trips and that that type of thing. That's going to make it difficult too. So, so that's
024just some some points of clarification here. So, my concern is it feels like we are I feel rushed personally and this is maybe the biggest decision I've ever made that's not a personal decision. This affects every single person in this county and I care so much about these teachers and these students. I don't want to just pick somebody. I want to make sure. And to me, I just feel like I'm running along behind all of you. Like I'm not I'm just not ready. Other comments. I just would like to say, excuse me, that we have three good candidates and I'm so thankful for them and they took the time and had the interest and all the work and preparation they've done. I'm so thankful for the hard work and the and and what they bring
025to the table. I agree with that. Yes, very much. I just feel like we have possibly missed a very crucial step in the process by not having a second round. It's like Miss Hodgej said, there was one candidate that we didn't know anything about that we listened to for an hour. And to be honest, I mean, we provided the interview questions. That's an open book test. And it's not any of their faults if they read their answers because I think any of us would do that if we had an opportunity to. But you're going to get a completely different feel for how that candidate um would handle things under pressure when they are asked questions without knowing what they are in advance. And I just feel like it's a crucial step that we're missing. Um,
026but I'm one of nine. Always say that. So, I took it from you earlier. Did you? All right. Any other comments? Um Tom, I guess my question is we were talking about timeline and what timeline we're on and would a second round of interviews really I know we you feel like opening it the process back up would be um put us in a time crunch with our timeline with when Dr. Pal is serving for us. But what about that second round of interviews? Is that we have Dr. pal till the end of July. Is that correct? June. End of June. Okay, that was a month off then. Um, so do we have do we have time for that? I guess is my question. We are the end of April. Come on. The end of April.
027You according to our timeline, we are supposed to have a contract out next week and then bring somebody on by June 1st. Now, is that the timeline provided by TSBA? Yeah, that's but we're not bound to to abide by that. That's just a suggested. Well, right. Right. But we agreed to that, you know, that's kind of the what we've been operating on. So, so, um, but I mean, they said any part of the pro when we contract with them, any part of the process could be modified. It's our search. It's, you know, and so if we wanted to put it off a week, I don't see how that would really affect things. Personally, I don't see, but everybody else can say how they feel. Let me on this with the decision of this magnitude. Personally,
028I like the idea of bringing all three of them in for one night. You know, a quick question and answer session and that would constitute our second round of interviews. I don't feel like that we need to have full-blown interview like we had before, you know, one candidate each night, but I think that would be um I think that would give everybody a good indication of how they perform under pressure. And needless to say, the job that they're applying for is full of pressure. and they might want to do this, you know, if it gives them a chance to be seen and to put themselves out there again. I mean, it might change minds all across the board. It might change their own minds if they don't want to anymore. You don't know. Like, I
029always think it's good to really take a step back and a deep breath and make sure that you're not rushing. Agree. Anybody else? How do you feel about a second round of interviews? I you know, like I say, we I got a lukewarm warm reception from everybody last week. I I know there was two that that were interested, but that but most people were not. So So we did not do it. So, um, so I don't know. Just waiting to see what what you all say here. Is there any general consensus? I know we can't vote on it now, but u any interest in doing that? It would have to be probably next week. I know you're going to be gone. Um, I won't be gone till the 16th. Okay. Oh, okay. I thought you
030were going to be on in on the 4th. So, um, so we could do that. I you know I guess my feeling is you know I think we got three good candidates and I have gone through I've looked at all the information been back through their resumes and their applications read all the emails got all the phone calls all the text messages and the personal communications. um you know watched the interviews again, done some digging on my own and I feel pretty pretty satisfied. You know I I have gone through a lot of hiring processes before though. So so I guess that's that's something but you know I feel pretty confident in in how I'm I would vote but but um others may not. So I tend to lean towards what do we say about
031our TCAP students? They might be completely proficient in English, but they might bomb that teaccap because it's a test. An interview is a test. This is not necessarily exactly what this person would be like in an outside conversation or a more casual interview or in a really deep situation or anything else. And that's all that we know about them. And I just I go back to our kids testing and how it doesn't necessarily speak to their strengths and weaknesses. And maybe that's silly, but I have a lot of kids and I spend a lot of time doing kids stuff. So that's how my brain works. So what what were you suggesting there? So I think another round of interviews, another situation, maybe just not even interviews, just a different type of sit. I don't know
032exactly, but a different type of situation to put these people in so we can get to know them. And I hate to do something based on one interview in a day, another opportunity to interact with the three candidates. Yeah. I want them all to shine in their own way. And I don't necessarily think that an interview when you already have all your questions is the shiniest moment. I mean, you can answer those questions very well, but I like to see people on their toes. Really, tell me what you think in this moment. Like, I bombed earlier when Tom made me start the meeting. So, you know, no, you didn't bomb. Work session is more informal. But, see, I would this time. So, well, I'm hearing basically three people that want to do additional interviews. Um,
033you know, Mr. Gilly obviously is not here, but um I, you know, we can, you know, try a motion and see what what people want to do. Um, and then if that fails, then we can go and and vote on the candidate if we want to in the in the meeting if that's acceptable to people or just not want to consider it. So, I'm one and nine, too. So, so I'm So, they know we can work session. We can. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. So, so we can do it that way or or not. I mean, I'm I'm fine either way. Um I you know you never know how emotion's going to go. So I quit predicting a while back. Um so we can do it that way if if you folks want
034because I'm hearing three strong voices that would like to do that. So so we can vote on that and then if that fails then we can move on and vote on the candidate. And um in that regard um unless anybody else has anything to say on this topic, we can talk about the actual candidate vote too. So there's really a couple ways to do that. Um we can do the the motion like we normally do and then everybody does a verbal vote. Um or we have the option under Robert's rules of order to have everybody do a written ballot. Um it would have your name on it and then it would be read off by by Melissa. Um and uh that's one way to do it too. So um we would need a motion to
035to do that of course to to vote to vote that way. Um nothing is is secret so your name is still on it either way. So, it just um it's just kind of a one shot where where you make a motion to vote that way. You vote and then we read it off and whoever gets at least five then is the new director. So, so I'm fine either way, but we we did talk about that as as an option. So, so is is that going to be somebody uh makes a motion by nominating one candidate? That's that's the way we traditionally do it is somebody would make make a motion and nominate a candidate or we can make a motion to vote by paper ballot and then everybody would just vote their name would be
036on the ballot and they'd vote for one of the candidates and then the ballots would be the name would be read off and the and who they voted for would be done by Melissa. So okay so those are those are really our options I think Dr. foul, right? So, yes, sir. If you if you went that route, uh, Mr. Chairman, the ballots that you have, when Melissa called them out, she would call out who voted and who they voted for. So, it's not a secret ballot situation, right? It's public vote either way. So, yes, sir. It's just a little bit different way of doing it. But, but your name would be on the on the ballot, so to speak, and your candidates's name would be on the ballot. So, anybody have any thoughts on how
037they'd like to do that? Um, Tom, I actually like that idea because that will save us the possible bringing up one and then the hours it could take to come to an agreement. I mean, one way or the other, we will either see if we have a quorum or not pretty quickly that way. Right. Right. I think it'll save us a lot of time. Okay. Mr. B, I might say also the names will be put in the gray basket up here and they will be randomly drawn out. They will not be in any order as you sit up here. Now, y'all usually have a a vote where you kind of go down the line unless you want to do differently, but process would be to put them in the basket up here drawn out in
038whatever order they come out. So, okay, you may be the first person to vote or you may be the last person to vote. Okay. If that's agreeable. So, we write down our ballot and then we walk down there and throw it in the basket. I'll pick the ballots up, put them in the box. Melissa will take them out, read them out. All right. If that's what you want to do. I've got uh one person who's interested in doing it that way. Anybody else? Got two. I'm interested in doing it that way. Make three. All right. Anybody else? Four. Paper. Okay. It doesn't matter to me. Y'all vote either way. Is there what is there an advantage that I'm that I'm missing? No, it's it's it's just well to make quicker. What what Beth is saying
039is is that potentially, you know, somebody votes, somebody nominates somebody, they make a motion and it doesn't pass and then you got to do it and then make another motion, right? Make a third motion and or you Yeah, I'm interested in this. about making an hour's worth of motions. Yeah. So, so this way if somebody gets five now, you know, we're supposed to strive to be unanimous, but uh but this way, you know, it would probably be one round. So, you get five and then that person would then be our director candidate. So, there could be more than one round of ballots, right? Understand that, right? Okay. Yeah. If you don't get five, then then we'd have to vote again. So, all right. Thanks. Is this is this done very often? I've never I'm sorry.
040As long as I've been on the school board, I've never Of course, we only did one director and we did it the traditional way. And uh is this done a lot? I mean, it doesn't matter to me, but I I didn't know there was another way of doing. I don't know that it's done very often. I'm sorry, Freddy K. I can't see you behind that monitor. Oh, okay. Um, it's it's I haven't been in a whole lot of these to be honest with you, so I don't know. But it's a form it's a a formation that has been done that it's recommended by TSBA as a process that you can use. Okay. But as far as saying I've seen it happen, no, I haven't. When I interviewed for the city system, they told me to
041be at the central office a certain time. When I got there, there were five board members and about 20 people in the audience. There were three of us that were involved in that interview. One person withdrew prior to the interviews. The other two, myself and the other person sat there and took questions from the board uh with no upfront knowing what was going to be asked. I guess they knew what they were, but we didn't have any didn't have any idea what was going to be asked. And then the board voted. But I haven't seen it done like this. But it is an acceptable method from and it's not a not a secret ballot type situation. And it's and it is uh it conforms to Robert's rules of order too. I I believe Mr. Schwarz,
042but I would assume so because because it's all open. I have checked. Yeah, it should be all open. So it should be fine. The biggest thing that it's going to do is keep from pressure from one person bringing up a and somebody else thinking, well, I'm I have to I need to vote that way or something, right? It's going to take away that and and like you said, it's rather than just one person being nominated, you have the open of voting for the person that you wish to vote for. All right. It would keep whoever the first person if you use your regular routine it would keep that person the first person to vote that could sway another vote somewhere down the line and that's what I say that's an option you have if you
043want to leave it that way that's perfectly all right but this other way can also be done well I guess what I'm hearing is that the paper ballot is seems to be what majority of folks want to do so let's so we would probably need a motion to do that and then we'll just go ahead and vote that way if we get to that point. All right. Well, if that that is uh anything else, any final words? Yeah, I'd like to say something. Sure. I'd like to say um you know I can't say on behalf of everybody but uh we really uh thought it was a great response from the community in the emails that we got toward the director um you know hiring a new director and um I really appreciate everyone's input um
044you know glad to see the community get involved um it's Always helpful to know what the pulse of the community is. That's it. I agree. A lot of them walk, you know. I mean, it's But that shows they care. Yeah, it does. That's so important. And I agree. And I'm so thankful for our community getting involved. It's critically critically important. So, I want to thank those that took the time to research and and comment on that. We got a lot. And we got some for each candidate. a lot for each candidate and they were all so nice to read and so full of praise and it did me good to see people speaking out for what they believed. We should all do so. Yes, good information. All right. Well, with that, let's take a about
045a 15 minute break and and then uh we'll come back at 5 and do our special called meeting and uh go from there.