Coffee County School Board Work Session

001live work session of the Coffee County Board of Education we've had so many meetings I'm starting to forget the dates but but um this is going to be we're we got two things on the agenda three things really we're going to talk salary and compensation is item number one and then uh wal is going to come and give us an update on East copy Elementary and Hickerson Elementary and uh Mr Cordell cannot be with us tonight he had some some obligations that cropped up at last minute so so I would ask M Miss yench to say a prayer for us father thank you for this opportunity to get together and bless our schools and we thank you Father for the new schools and that we're looking at and the adding on to the schools father

002we thank you for the food that you've given us tonight and we ask that your wisdom be over us in a mighty way as we listen and hear what need to be done for our schools and we thank you in Jesus name amen amen all right so first item on the agenda and by way of introduction last year we gave a across the board 7% increase to uh everyone in the school system and I think that you know what I'm hearing from the board is that this year we're really focused on on getting the teachers up to to where they need to be so um so we want wanted to go back and the request was to go back and look at these salary schedules and and how we can make make adjustments there to

003to get to our our goal of getting the teachers to where they need to be so um I guess I would ask uh Miss melson to explain the uh um the salary schedules you got two you have their certified um salary schedule and you have the uh um Prof pair of professional schedule here what I've done is I've put together hang I'm going to take because you already have one of the documents I've printed off that's my fault because I Melissa printed it and I told her to but I have made a draft copy of what a 3% raise looks like on the um certified salary schedule thank you these are drafts so I wrote draft on them they are not to be shared because they're not official until the budget's approved all the way

004through the County Commission so just want to make sure I say that and I would add that M melson needs to leave um by certainly by five yes going to have to have limited discussion because she needs to leave so okay so the so what you're looking at is a salary schedule for all certified employees so this this would be anyone that's degreed um so your teachers your um principles your assistant principles your guance counselors your central office supervisors everyone that's certified that holds a degree is on the on the salary on the certified salary schedule needs need so guess that so if we give a 3% raise that's what the pay scale will look like um if we give it 3% the additional the next year we will be at around 50,19814 on that

005first line which will get us there in the time that we need to get there I guess I'll open the floor for general questions I don't I don't know what the questions are but this is basically the pay scale that I'm working off of as of right now in the budget we said if we gave a 3% across the board it would cost about 350,000 for every 1% that includes classified and certified and pair professionals so for every percent that we give it costs around $350 ,000 and that is for all employees and that's benefits that's everything so for every 1% it's 350,000 okay questions for Miss melson on the April you said if we do 3% this year and next year we'll be up to the 50,000 so yes that if you take that

006number 49,000 and I don't have a copy 49,000 um whatever some change and you add 3% to it it gets us around I think 50,19814 already I'm saying they're already meeting that goal so their their salary wouldn't change so right when I add 3% to EV it'll add 3% to everyone so that Master's scale will go also go up by 3% that will it be retroactive going back starting at the 50 you you see what I'm saying because that Masters is determined on the base salary so if I look at the Masters line so I look at Masters and zero so let's talk about like let's look at next year and you understand what I'm saying I may not be making I just and that may not even be an you know may not even

007be applicable may not even be app but we will probably do well to get someone with the BS so if the person if the person with um BS zero will go to 50, 1119 as of July one of next year not next year but 2627 year the person with a masters and zero so we bring someone with a masters in zero in let me just Cate because I didn't pay attention to that line because they're already above um they'll be at 54,6 183 so they'll get the same potentially the same increase as the in so every time we give a 3% it affects every spot on this so the only way it wouldn't affect so instance we're how many teachers now that that that are not making the 50,000 71 I thought it was 31

00831 yeah 31 okay and if we chose to if we chose to go ahead and get them to the 50,000 this year that would affect so either you would have to give like a 6% raise or we would have to rebuild a whole salary schedule because you would want to add those steps in you wouldn't want to be at 0o one two three and not be at or zero and one would both be at 50,000 you would want to build those steps in well I mean I know that we're here to look at different options on what we're going to do and this is not necessarily what I would uh be for but that's an option that we could increase those 31 teachers to 50,000 this first year this first year yeah and and and

009that wouldn't why would that change anything on the step because they would be at your number zero and one and they would make the same amount well each year I mean until they got to year three or two on the pay scale they would make the same amount so if you make if you make year zero and one $50,000 because that's where we need to be then they would not get a raise they get a $265 raise a year two or year three sorry well they' be getting the same raise as everybody else but they would still make the same amount so if you gave a 3% raise that number say the same so like you make 50,000 on year zero and year one it still makes it whatever 50,000 times yeah so it' be

0105150 so like next year when we gave a rise both of those lines would be 51 51,500 but you're talking about giving it across the board though right I don't think so I think what she's talking about is is just what is free to ask which is you're if you just brought those 31 up those 31 people are going to set here for three years before they'll see any kind of an increase and even when they see the increase it'll only be $265 like if you were going to do that how are you getting it how are we getting it no why would they why would they be penalized what do you mean I mean you're saying they're not going to make if you make ra everybody else yeah because in order to do you

011didn't ra else if you gave if you bring them up according to this you have to bring everybody up to 6% we don't we don't have to bring everybody up at the same time no we no that's what I'm saying we're not talking about doing this if you don't bring everybody up but that's what saying if you don't bring them up then they're going to be they're basically going to be three years without a raise okay my thinking is you bring them up and you just start this year and you do whatever increases we get everybody gets it I mean I what I'm thinking I mean this is just an option but why would would we wait two years if we can go ahead and get them up to that salary now and because any

012new teacher coming in we're going to give them that aren't we so what I would suggest to if that's what you want to bring year zero to 50,000 then I would redo this entire BS L of the bachelor's line because line line one should be 50,000 I mean line zero year zero should be 50,000 and these are just numbers I'm throwing out just because I'm making them up year one should be 50,2 50 your three should your two should be 50,500 so those people are getting step raises each year if you make if you make zero and one 50,000 those potentially the employees coming in at year zero will not get a step raise they'll make the same amount for year zero and year one let me ask you this if we get a new

013teacher this year what will be their salary you're not we're not going to start them out because they're required to we're starting them out at 50,000 we're not required to until 26 27 right and that's what we did we started this three years ago fra when we started but I mean just because it's then we need I mean I'm thinking that to attract to attract good teachers with BS they're going to go somewhere where they can get the 50,000 and we're going to end up with people that aren't is already qualified the state minimum for this year is 47,000 to be at year zero we have to be at 47,000 Mr so I'm I'm just throwing those things out there for consideration because you know if I were a first year teacher graduating say from

014Tennessee Tech and I could I had option of going Manchester City T cofa County you know if they're if they're starting me out at 50 that's where I'm going to go yeah and that and we can do that but we would have to rebuild this whole side of the scale to make those step changes so that would be possible and then that's not going to affect anybody else um and also we'd have to also keep in mind that we have 535,000 that we have to give I'm looking at ke because that number to give and has to be spent on certified raises so right yeah and that's no that's no problem of G giving the raises I'm just my opinion is if we've got to do this by 26 27 why don't we go ahead

015and get that over with where we can attract teachers that that make you know are there any do you know what any school systems that are already there um I'm sure T is um I know the last time we looked Manchester city was not because we were ahead of them on the pay scale as of last year in a lot of different spots I don't know about Bedford County and Franklin I'm not sure what theirs are but I know that t probably is and I know that unless Manchester city gives more than I don't think they are right now I think everyone's just pushing and the money's given like this year's money is meant to meet the $47,000 minimum minimum and then next year we'll get another allotment that says okay here's your amount you

016have to meet the 50 this year yes I would love to get to 50 this year because that means our starting pay is above surrounding counties most likely but I would have to rebuild this whole side of the pay scale to add the steps in to make it because I don't I feel like and this is my opinion that a certified teacher to come in and make 50,000 for the first two years and not get a race till the third I feel like they would look at the pce scale and be like I'm not going there because I'm not going to get a raise for three years because I'm not understanding that I'm confused why why wouldn't they get a raise like everybody else a step raise they wouldn't get a step raise they would

017get a raise but they would be because they wouldn't have so do you see so look at year zero and one the difference between the two steps so if you make both of those 50,000 there's no difference between the steps so at your zero and your one they're going to make 50,000 for two years they're going to make just 50,000 yes they may get the 3% raise but they're going to get they're not going to get the step raise that everybody else gets why aren't they because your zero and your one would be the same amount we would have to completely rebuild this whole T side of the scale to make that step raise well I mean I see no problem rebuilding that you know but I just I just can't understand why why if

018you why you wouldn't get a step raise why you're why you're salary would stay the same th this chart I'm going to I'm going to finally this chart is exactly what we all started three years ago well I understand that but that's well but that's that's all she's done all she's done is come in here and presented the same chart we've been doing every year and half for the last three years because the first thing everyone said three years ago was well yeah sure we could just raise our starting pay to 50,000 but we had 10 and 15E employees at that time that wasn't going to move and they were going to be within5 and $8,000 of where they starting to pay was so we said no got to do this across the board and

019Scoot everyone till we get our basic that and keeps us and that's like she said while ago keeps us uh uh competitive all the way across all of these but the way I look at it we're not doing this to try to make it make a difference between people's salary we're required we're going to be required to do that so when we get to that point you so you're saying we'll get to the 50,000 by if we can give a 3% this year and a 3% next year right so they just looked at T's pay scale and we're ahead of we're will be ahead of T we should be ahead of T unless they give some kind of six or seven we're ahead right now and we're 47 that's not a bad thing is it

020no that's a great thing that's good that's what I'm saying yeah so well that's good to know cuz that was my thinking if we're behind everybody why wouldn't we just go ahead and catch up and forget it but understand M Jones another thing is if you remember the the board voted to to to correct these uh pay scales completely so basically the way it's set up right now is every year if you're an educator you're getting paid let's say you know that next year you're going to get either $82 raise for for a year experience the next year it might be $ 83 is is within $1 there each year if you jump all those at the very beginning those first ones up to 50,000 well you no longer have that $82 or $83 because

021it's 50,000 it's 50,000 then you start doing your $ 8002 $83 right now every teacher knows each year they're going to get an increase of about $82 or $83 if you jump up to $50,000 all at once with the first two you you've done away with that $82 $83 it's just $50,000 right but that teacher that teacher would be making an extra 2,000 by you know but they wouldn't be seeing that they're getting a raise because they start at 50,000 the next year they're going to make 50,000 in their mind I'm not getting raised even though but they they got the raise in the beginning they're not seeing that because they weren't here all they're it if I were if I were taking never mind just try to help no that's just my point that's

022the raise at the beginning they're getting it right there and are we I mean are we bound anyway finished are we bound to what we did three years ago I mean can we not change this thing every year I I I think that you could change it but what I'm saying is the board worked hard to IND diligently to correct the pay scales to get a a a pay scale that makes sense and it has been fixed and and the board did well on getting it corrected and and I think what Miss mels is trying to do is say we don't want to blow it up and and make a mess of the the pay scale can it be changed the board has the right to make that change and make increases but it's it's

023done in a way that you can do 3% this year 3% next year and you've got your $50,000 and and everybody's getting their their continued raises on their kind of took the entire system up as well yes so you've made even a teacher that comes over here that's got 15 years of experience she's going to see a better number here in this school system than probably where correct and and and we're not just looking to get new teachers we want to get all teachers and and also I think by when I remember making that list I think over half of the teachers were already going to roll off off of that list anyways we unless we have new teachers come in but we over half of that 31 was going to roll off of that

024list because they were going to go to year two and so next year there may not be as many but we may get some new teachers that are year zero and so we kind of back in the same boat with them um yeah it may weed itself out by by next year yeah to think about like this so we're getting ta we're getting TAA funds to make this adjustment ever to help us make this adjust so in the year 2728 if we don't get Tisa funds and we can't give a raise by whatever means something happens year Z1 would be the same amount forever like if we never were able to give a raise again does that make sense yeah and it was like you was saying a while ago you're you're looking at if

025we done everything all the way across the board you're looking at 350,000 per percent times so if we give a three% raise it'll be 350 times three but that includ 50 but that that includes everybody yeah a milon 50 but then the state is allocating 533,000 back to help that right so even if we did the 3% for everyone this year we're just looking at and see all even have to calculate you know that 3% that 535,000 before we even bring a budget or a budget gets presented to make sure we're going to meet that TSA guideline because that's the one thing we have to and that would actually be if I'm not mistaken if we have a a hit to our fund balance of 530 or five 600 whatever the difference is to make

026up for it that's the smallest hit we've had in three years to do these raises all the way across the board the the that'd be the smallest hit and then if we've got the possibility of next year weeding that out to where we really don't even might not even have and remember we always always try to be give worst case scenario when I bring those like we were very conservative on revenue and then you know to the extreme on some expenditures so we give worst case scenario that we think it if the worst thing happens this is what's going to hit fund balance so so I think we're looking as a group at two different ways one carry on like we are with the 3% or rebuild the BS column is that way yeah I

027think that's just set a base pay at 50,000 the only thing I was going to tell you is real quickly that about the restricted Fund in Tisa that is codified into law with Tennessee code annotated with the Tissa law itself that the 100 the state will the state sets aside $25 million across the entire State for the teacher raises and the way that coffee counties or any districts is calculated and the easy number is the state ADM averages around 1 million coffee County's portion of that right now of the state ADM is 0.43% so they simply multiply the and let's just say they simply multiply the 125 Million by about 0.43% that's where right now the 536,000 is coming from so and that I just want you to let you know that's codified into law

028so that it would take legislation to change that and I don't I don't foresee them changing that I'm not getting any chatter on that right now that's all I was going to say to you so we gave a 3% to classified only would that how would that would that total up to 536 well we can't we can't use certified FS certified I'm sorry certified I misspoke so I would just that's something I'm going have to I could have to calculate so this this schedule would would uh meet our obligations for uh uh dispersing the the TSA funds I haven't I haven't made it all the way through that calculation yet so I'm still working through payroll budget right now okay um so when I'm almost finished with it so I should this week early next

029know if that 3% will make the 535,000 but just to clarify that is for certified employees only that's correct does not include uh the fair of professionals did not include the the class SP okay and I think we'll get there with the step raises and because it step rates count and percentage rates count so I think we'll get there I just want to be sure before I say we're going to you know we're going to get there and then we don't get there and have to come back to you guys and say well we have to do a 4% because 3% won't get us there right well kind 4% that's kind of why I'm building the 3% first to see if we can get there with it and if we can't then I may have

030to say we might have to look at a four because that's what will get us to the 535,000 so what you're saying is you are coming up with a percentage for everybody everybody having the same rates to get the first year teacher up to 50 and if 3% won't do it we have to go up on 4% that's correct we couldn't just do theirs that's correct because everyone that all certified employees are attached to this scale all certified people are attached to this scale so when you raise this scale it raises all those other groups too and and that was my point if we should get in a bind in two years we're going to be required still to get those salaries up to 50 whether that whether we can afford to do 7% or

031whatever for everybody we're still going to be required so say we can give a 3% this year and it gets us to that 536,000 or whatever number next year we get 500 and something thousand the same amount but we maybe can't give the 3% um we could look at a flat across the board Ray so like the difference between the 50,000 and the 48,6 60 and then everyone would get that and then I would have to calculate to see if that would meet our number that we would get from Tisa next year so a couple different option you have to do away with this and do just a flat I would I would just add whatever $1,200 to this Top Line and add it all the way through the pace scale on every line but

032understand either one of those will prevent messing up the pace scale that has been repaired in the past by the board so both of those methods keeps the the pace scale from being destroyed correct that's right it's whether you do a amount or whether you do a aent percentage but proportionally there should be a raise at each step right you could choose to get I mean we could do instead of doing this we could do the flat I mean the flat amount this year we could do I mean there's there's options so I would keep the I would lean towards the 3% because that's what's going to get your more it's going to raise your scale more I guess than just doing the flat amount and I think what's important here is that uh the

033clock is ticking on the budget so April needs some guidance from the board on which way we want to go on this it's could you break out the certified scale between the teachers and administration um I mean basically it would be the same scale but break the two groups apart so that when we start looking at raises I would have to have a whole different pay scale for I'd have to have a I would have the board have would have to tell me who they want on that pay scale and I would have to have a completely new pay scale to move those people to because what happens is when when this pay scale gets approved basically essentially as soon as the commission approves my budget I build this pay scale that's why I was

034hesitant to hand it out because I don't usually build this until the commission approves their budget and which is in July usually well end of June first of July um and I take this pay scale and I load the pay scale in our in our salary or payroll system and it basically everyone attached to this pay scale now their base pay is this amount right but what I'm what I'm saying though is is you keep this same scale because as it is now you know if they if they have a title they get additional money so I mean their pay scale is the same what I'm saying is for raise purposes just say just say we getting a bind and you know we got to raise the teachers up but if there's not you know

035if it's 3% for the teachers that we need but maybe we can only afford to go 2% on others I mean it would still work off the same pay scale because the base pay scale so we would go back to what we had three years ago and we would have to build a whole new pay scale and move all admin to that pay scale so we did away with that because it's a payroll nightmare like and and I'm not I'm not trying to that's kind of why we went away from it because you have three pay actually you have three this one that one and then all of these classified pay scills that we have to attach people to at that time we had 17 I believe I think that's the work calendars yeah so

036it could be done it has been done in the past but it would have to be done and and I want to say this and nobody please don't don't tack me but at this point in the year it would be extremely difficult for that to happen because I'm looking at getting a budget to you guys in in two weeks are you saying the commission wait we can't amend it or anything so we have to have a approved budget to presented to budget and finance by May 1st we have a meeting to meet with them on April 28th I have to have them the budget to review by April 21st we have our meeting with you guys on April the 10th and then a board meeting to vote on the budget on April the 15th and

037that's dictated in law I mean I'm dates I'm basically payroll budget is 85% of my budget your answer we just came from a tsba meeting and there was there was there's schools all over the state that don't get their budget turned into two or three months you know I don't know why I'll be glad to loan you the law books and you can read it it's in board policy it says May 1 and it's state wall you're welcome to them I think I emailed everybody I mean even with an amendment like if we weren't ready I'd have to call the commission and and tell them I think that's what they because they also have to roll our budget in with theirs and present it as a whole we have to go PRM present our budget

038to them and then they have to roll our budget into their budget and present it as a whole to the full commission so there's a lot of things that happen so I have to also go to the commission and present our budget early June so there's a lot of things that have to happen and we're under the gun like my my my only thought on that is that we as a as a board if we're just not ready if we're just not you know if we're if we're undecided if we're just not ready to move forward with one pay scale or what however it shakes out you know would we have the option to amend and and just explain we're not ready we'll get it you know I would have month or I I I

039don't know I don't know and I'm just asking if that I think we would have I I we've never had that happen so what I think would happen is I think we would have the commission or the Budget Finance would have to file something with the state to let them know that we did not meet our deadline and it may put the also the County under the gun of not meeting their deadline so that's may be something we just want to research I'm not I'm not pressuring you guys by any means I'm just trying to follow my guidelines that I'm given by the county yeah that thatd you know if it if it puts a lot of pressure on us you know I I don't want us to rush it if we have the the

040option to get an extension or Amendment or whatever it would be better to hang on it would be better to make an informed decision um and and be confident and comfortable with that decision than to rush something is all I'm saying Mr K you have to that's all I'm gonna say you have to pass a budget yes you can amend a budget after the fact but it'll still have to go through budget and finance of the county it'll still have to be amended if it's a major amendment I do believe that that time the county will have to readdress if the state will allow to do it because it has to be it has to be submitted to the the commissioner education and I think that's not long after the county gets permission to approve

041it I believe I believe it's by August someday it has to be there's all kinds of tests the county have to meet maintenance of effort and all of that and all of those have to be completely done before we get to July one to make sure like they they don't need to come back and give us more funding or I mean there's a lot there's lots of things that happen from now to June 30 okay so I understand this the draft you you gave us this a work we'll get to that 50,000 uh requirement in 20 26 27 in the next school year yes ma'am not this next one but the next one okay now is this a 3% this will be 3% I didn't put it on there because I didn't want to okay

042put too much on and it was confusing me because this this was last year's the 7% then I have I have that one for this year y have some room did we give everybody one of these I made any more copies that's for those that's the classified pay scales make c um let me mention that there may be changes that we want to make in the future but it may be too late this year so that those changes may be something that we look forward to next year and we start working on it a lot earlier yeah cuz it's really not fair to April at this point to say you've got to change I agree I agree that we should probably start earlier obviously yeah yeah but I'll do whatever you guys you know I'm

043it's just at this point in the game it's going to be incredibly difficult to we like you we don't want to kill you okay does she have to have a I mean would would that have to be be a motion in a meeting it has to be a whole new pay scale and it has to be approved and then and then I can move it into our payroll system and then I can start putting people whoever the board chooses to put on that pay scale so between the appending view or difference views those would be options that the next very next board meeting we would be approving which way for her to go right well the next board meeting needs to be we're going to talk about the budget we're going to be presented the

044budget at the work session on the ch and then the 15th is the board meeting we need to approve B that time but it's going to take a vote though it'll take a vote to change the pay scale so we we may have to have a special called meeting just I don't think anybody's wantan to change the pay scale at this point you know well I mean y'all got legitimate concerns I'm not going to say that but I think to change anything other than the plan of the 3% like we've been going is going to take a vote I do believe to ever change the direction of that Am I Wrong well I think each year we vote on whether it's a 3% raise a 5% you know that's not going to usually there's three

045two to three options given that's not a well I think what she was talking about was if she needs to redo some things and just redraw the pay scale and well that would be if we changed everything to 50 well I think the question was if if that's the way y'all rather pursue this I think I think the question was about moving maybe some admin to a different pay scale so so is this possible because I know you have to leave early and I do too um to do and I don't even know if the board would want to do this okay this is just throwing that out there you know it it's obviously you know a change and and it may or may not be wanted but would it be possible to do like

046say three pay scales and have one for certified teachers one for non-certified employees and then one for admin so you have you already have the one this one so only thing that would be required is you'd have to build a new pay scale for admin yeah um everything else so if you look at your professional salary schedule that has all the classified employees on it you don't have we and that that would require board approval is to if you built a separate salary schedule you'd have to have board approval for that maybe um so that this is kind of the this is this pa pa professionals what we call our classified or hourly employees and this is basically category category by almost position but there's a few groups that are grouped together so these are

047where our hourly this is these are the pay scales our hourly people are on um if you look across there you can see the different categories and you can see that this is with the 3% raise next year just kind of like we did for what we same as this scale um well I think you know that maybe the idea of having the three different scales was if we wanted to pursue maybe trying to close that gap between somewhat obviously in very small increments between the certified and the PA professional um to try and maybe bring those Folks up a little bit more and help close that Gap I think maybe that's what Warren County's been working on from what I understand which is why they went to dollar amount raises um because that does

048kind of help close the gap instead of everybody going all up you know one flat dollar amount which I'm not necessarily opposed to that either I don't know if that's a nightmare for you but um I think that was kind of the idea is that you know we've got our admin that that's doing very well and then but our par professional our um non-certified are on the low side I think some of us feel and we're just you know maybe trying to close that and feel like things were maybe a little more fair in that regard but if that's not something board wants to do you know it's and I know that we've done a lot of work that the pay SC in front of you I wish I had a copy of of where

049we started like maybe three years ago MH we've we've done a whole lot of work and really really raised the pain so I mean if you it's been done in the past where we've given a 3% to one group and given a 5% to the other that is definitely possible because these people are on different pay scales than these people so if you look if you look at each line on the budget on the on the pay scale those are different pay scales and so anyone who has a custodian job is loaded in our payroll system as a custodian so whatever that year they're on that's the that's their hourly rate so that automaty gets put into payroll when this um payroll this pay scale is generated so potentially if you wanted to give a

050more of a raise to your classified staff you could do it in that way give them a different percentage to give them a flat amount you could pretty much do what you want over here the problem with this one is you have so many people ATT attached to it that once you raise it you have to give it to everyone because everyone's attached to this one where these people are attached to the different categories on there so on this one does this include admin is that what you're saying okay and but we could break it out into three right if we you could you the board would have to approve okay a new pay scale and then tell me who they would want on to go to that P okay okay how long will it

051take to do that um I have no idea what you guys would even want because we just I mean to separate that out B basically if you just took those that same pay scale and you just had two of them you had this you had one for the teachers and one for admin I mean using those same those same base numbers I mean I that's fine just just be the fact of moving names from one pay scale to another pay scale I mean that would be have to be approved by the board right but I'm just you if that's what we want to do how much work you know would you have in it I mean I've already built I've already built the payroll budget it's pretty much almost done for this school year I

052mean I would have to go back and change all those people right and then we' have to figure how long how long would it that's what I'm saying how long would it take you to do that I I don't know I don't know how many people you're talking about I think about this too like if you're talking about what salary schedule so teachers and AIDS are are which schedule are they on um as opposed to admin as opposed to principles so You' have to Define supervisors supervisors yeah so you'd have to Define that for for for who you want on what pay scale and that's that's kind of I think what's a April's asking here right so yeah I think what you're talking about administrators like principal supervisor so that you know exactly I guess

053I think that's what they're talking about yeah administrat and the supplements that you know because it's you know teachers don't get that so this doesn't reflect and a lot of and a lot of the extra I think they'll have the salaries and I think that's the concern because but a lot of those a lot of the salar is extra days because we're we're here all summer working and the teachers this is the teacher pce is 200 day scale yeah and so that's the one that we have is a 200 pay scale right and I don't build a 257 so basically I take this pay scale and I um use it to strap late like if someone's 221 I use it get their daily rate based on what year what year they're on and then I

054multiply that yeah I've done the calculation that a couple things to think about when you're looking at the the admin and the supervisors uh pay scale there's they do they get to supplement but but you got to realize they're getting paid for extra days that they work they get paid for extra degrees because usually your principls and your supervisors going to have your higher degrees multiple degrees and that's going to push them on up on the pay scale as well usually your principles and your supervisors are going to be your highend uh on experience uh you're usually don't put a a first year teacher as a supervisor it's just it doesn't happen so usually they're already maxed out in their 25 years or or more a lot of times so you're you're you're you're already

055pushed up so when you're looking at these supervisors and administrators yes they're going to be making the more money because they they put in extra days they have the the degrees they have the experience and they also have the more responsibilities uh the The Things fall on their backs they they are a 247 uh employee anytime something happens at a a school the principal's called they're own call for it supervisors own call each and every day uh so they are going to be your higher paid and and rightfully I would think should be your high paid because of all those different things they do and the biggest one is they work more more days uh teachers get you know mainly 20 200 day contract uh supervisors at 257 days that's another 57 days that they're

056working that's going to push their their pay up so so I'm not sure what you're looking at but if if if you're just looking at the the total salary it's going to look way up here but but you also got to realize they are putting in a lot more days as well and to to get that extra up there so just just keep those things in mind when you're you're talking about your admin and your your supervisors as well okay I certainly I certainly understand where their salaries come from because I was up here myself and you know you're basically just working extra days but and maybe a supplement on top of that so but I think what y'all were asking is something I mean I may be wrong I'm that you're wanting a separate

057one where you can see that it's it's basically this and then there's a supplement for for a a instructional supervisor what that is where I think that's what it is they would like to see what each uh supervisor gets tacked on to their base salary I think they have that M no I believe some of the board has that I don't know who all does but out there somewhere got that I've got it no what what I'm saying is you know you got you got a supervisor and we just use good round numbers here you got somebody making $100,000 okay you got a teacher making $50,000 all right well you give a 3% raise that teacher is going to get a $1,500 a year raise that's supervisor is getting a $3,000 a year raise so

058you know percentages really don't work real good if you wanting to try to contain your gap down well and not necessarily reducing the the Gap as much as keeping um keeping everybody on on kind of the same the same level because you you you start compounding you know every time you you go up so you know this year you got a 3% next year you give a 3% well all of a sudden you know this person here's over two years received $6,000 this person here's only received you know half that and I mean that's what I'm I'm getting at to be able to control you know because I mean if if we run into a situation where money's tight then you got to situation where well if we give a 3% we got to give

059you know those higher salaries those percentages add a lot of dollars to the bottom line is what I'm getting at to be able to control that if we need to I'm going to throw Ju Just the you know cost of living they they don't go by uh somebody that's uh doing this job compared to this job on where they are it's it's a cost of living percentage for everybody and it's it's the same thing on the area if if you are building a and I'm looking at w if you're building a school for an elementary school and then you're also building a high school if the cost of of the price of increase for materials is 3% just because it's a smaller school doesn't change that 3% it's still going to be 3% that's going

060to go up either way and and at the elementary school it might be another $100,000 but the high school might be another $400,000 because the 3 3% so it doesn't make any difference you're still looking at the same thing with it now as far as with your pay scales to keep from messing those up if you don't want to do a percentage you can stay away from the percentage and do a a flat amount and not destroy your pay scale still and it does cost less money to to do a flat amount is that correct maybe maybe it just depends on what percentage you look at like you know 3% maybe less 2,800 maybe less than a 3% I I've never calculated that way because we've never given a raise like that so I don't

061know what that would cost but I agree with you Chris if if you are really pushed for the funding then you could go to that flat rate with it but admin and your supervisors are making the extra money off of the the stien that they make on top of it for the position that they're in or they're getting the same money because they're just working more days or they have more degrees or they have more experience which is the same thing as any teacher that would be getting it as well if they if they get called to come in during the summer for the rest the whole summer they're they're going to get the same thing that they got based on the base pay it's just more days you see what I'm saying hold on

062just a minute Miss melson has to leave so I wanted I wanted to say one more thing um you know you guys talk about being competitive and compete like having salaries with um T Manchester whoever back when we did back when we looked at all of this I think it was a couple years ago Dr Loston went out and did all the research on what other supervisors make we had what brought light to this was Miss uh Brenda Brown retired and we had interviewed several people that for that position we offered it to someone in T and she looked at our pay scale and he calculated and she said there's no way I'm coming for that like I'm not going to give my I'm not leaving 20 taking 20 $30,000 pay cut to come from

063T to work over here and work more days pretty much and so that's when it opened our eyes to look at our pay scales for supervisors and he went around and he gathered all the information and he talked to I know talked to Franklin County Bedford County maybe Warren T which was way out of our reach because if you look at anybody Toom I mean I know the finance director is sitting over there just because I know because it was posted two years ago he makes 30 more, a year than I do which I mean I have more schools I have more and I'm not advocating for me I have more schools I have more students I have more responsibility he also has same number of staff so I'm just saying like I think all

064of that was done to try to stay competitive with these roles as well as our teachers and our principals and our classified staff so we we've kind of done the work to try to get there and I mean I just want you guys to keep that in mind because I know I hit I hit 20 year 25 on the pay scale and so say you broke this say you broke this apart and you chose we couldn't chose not to give a raise to supervisor admin for three years and that probably would never happen but I would sit here on the pay scale and for three years I would sit here and work the same am of hours and never get a cost living increase so also keep that in mind that you have your highest

065heid people are on are in in this office because they have the most experience and most likely on this bottom of this pay scale so I just want y'all to keep all that in mind there's I'm not speaking for me I'm speaking for everyone I want I want all everyone to get everyone in this County to get right because I know how hard everyone works to make to make things happen for these for our kids it's so different than the discussion uh you had as a board the other night for the director of schools you didn't keep it at what it was because you wanted to attract somebody to to come in and and you end up increasing it from what it was you had to because you saw what the other cost and and

066everybody else is getting paid so you had to increase it you want to be able to bring people in we we don't want to lose a position of a assistant principal or a principal and nobody wants it because there's it's just not worth the money uh you've got to you we've got to be competitive I don't think anybody in here trying to keep no no I'm just saying but those are the things you got to keep in mind la land thinking that that's the the you know that what you're saying is true of the board it's not our admin salaries are I mean they're doing really well comp here's a scenario I sit here figure this up let's just say got hold up just AE M I can save maybe five more minutes what what

067I might suggest I want to help answer any questions I we have a we have a salary and compensation yeah committee slot for next week that we can you know if you guys want to keep that we can move the discussion there and look at you know if you want to break this out and how you'd want to break it out that just a suggestion since Miss melson has to leave she couldn't be there for the meeting next week but but you know you can certainly decide what to do on that so is that you're talking about the salary compensation committee meeting next week yeah I mean I'm good with that yeah I'm good with it yeah I think how do we do that then I just have one question so all we're actually doing

068is giving a cost of living increase is that right the 3% maybe a little more I don't know what is cost what is cost I four I feel like they said it was four this year reallya I think what I'm hearing and and I don't want to get in this discussion because I may have a conflict of interest in the situation as most of you may know but what I'm hearing is it's not impossible for April to make out another pay scale but it's right this at this point in time it's all almost improbable because of time restraints I think uh if you want to give her Direction she'll work till midnight like she does a lot of times getting this stuff together but if if you know if it's not that drastic right now

069you can advise right this time before next year we'll start this you go ahead and start working on another pay scale for supervisors and then you'll have those when budget time comes for for next school year or for the 272 27 28 school year I guess uh you follow what I'm it's not impossible to make out a new pay scale at this point in time it's just time crunch to get it done and it might be even favorable to the supervisors because I know from experience that it was based on a teacher salary you know you start you know it was based on teacher not on what a base supervisor would be making you see what I'm saying sure anyway that's just something to think about if you want speak yeah we just don't want

070to keep April cuz she needs to leave I just want to know cuz my perception is I feel like right now and I think some of the other people that we've been talking about is that we if we split this up then we don't deserve raise now again I'm the lowest person on the admin totem poll but my question would be is I personally I don't feel like I make like a substantial mail I'm year 12 or year 11 with I get an 8% stien right so based on a teacher salary so if we split that up I can't even imagine how that looks if we're not going off a teacher salary I work 11 more days than regular teachers do but I work more I'm not saying I work harder I feel like I

071do but I'm not saying I work harder but I think for Simplicity it's just easier to look at that scale go okay I'm going to make 8% more than what those teachers are making because I work my my duties require more so when you say Administration and break that up could you clarify what you mean because sometimes it sounds like yall are talking about just central office staff sometimes it sounds like y'all are talking about building supervis or principal as well so I think that clarification would also be helpful for some of the questions that we've been having in the schools and that might be a question that's answered at the salary and compensation committee next week so so just a thought on that how do you break that out because right now I mean

072there are still teachers in our building that makes more money than we do so yeah yeah so it's just one of those things that's something that we've looked at because I think principal assist principal I thought we had very enlightening to see I thought we had that compensation stabilization to we do okay we do but that only that only counts for um principles assistant principles aren't included in that no okay just princi building principles building principles and then um anybody like if if someone up here was to supervise people right that they would have to make more than their okay $500 more than okay what person but that's just principle and the job we do we obviously don't do it for our pay but we want to advocate for it because groceries are high y'all

073so especially eggs especially all right thank you Miss melson and bye bye next so you definitely want to call the salary compensation for next I think so yeah that's what I'm hearing so so let's let's do that because we uh we got some good it was a good discussion I think we got some good information so you know I'm just gonna make this comment Tom we spent what an hour trying to figure out a salary on our new director because we wanted the best well we've got to consider we want the best in our principles our assistant principles those who are up in the front office we also want the best in them and I don't want another school system stealing our best so that's just something to think about with the Salary thank you

074all right the W folks you guys you guys always get to sit through these interesting discussions [Laughter] right okay well then we need to go ahead and get that set up you're not going to be talking I'll tell you what I did it this way right here how's this what you need it we can we can share it youing [Music] you been talk got a couple three extra copies of the the planning presentation that Von presented last time if y'all want to is that what we have probably so like that yep that's the one wi he two old men Mt these two old men might want some G pie I tell you I I've been doing this for a long time and school board members you have a rough way to go you a lot

075of responsibility nobody really appreciates it I got oh we still are mik still hot test I think they are I got my opinions on it my choices been laugh I'm telling you that's right I need to turn that off too late Mr Dame too late you know I can't say enough good things about this these Architects are real really fantastic e e we' like to go ahead and thank everybody for letting us be here tonight we are live show we' like to thank everybody for letting us be here tonight and letting us work on your projects uh we had an interesting meeting at the high school what last Friday or Friday before last Friday yeah that's going to be challenge but I think we worked it out okay well I think that uh last time

076you presented to us at the board there were some questions as to growth and and and the um the capacity at the various schools and you were going to look at that and come in give us a little more detailed presentation here on that so that's correct and then whatever we have a few board members that are more construction oriented than I am so kind of take the lead on on that so so fire away well we have Von Dirks and Jacob cherry and myself Steve Griffin so we'll turn it over to vong cuz he's kind of been the champion of this whole effort uh the planning effort so I think what we talked about last time sorry Rockstar we don't do enrollment projections because we think it's really important thatment can you guys share

077the mic mic oh you got okay got it all right so we don't have growth information because that's not something that we project that would be something that we respond to in terms of what the growth is we do have some companies that are National that do enrollment projects but I'm sure that there's uh there's other ways they've done growth projections before usually with the cohort survival method is is what a lot of districts use to to show that growth but that wouldn't account for would be anything that's a new change in the area if you've got a major Housing Development going up for example that anticipate different things we do have a local real estate expert so uh but we do have the presentation from before and what we didn't have last time was

078a lot of opportunity for you to ask more in-depth questions to do other things to be able to help with how you want to make that decision for what you want to do at the two buildings and so uh that's our understanding that's today is that that's the time to talk about those things in more detail all right so specific questions that we had from from last time can we bring the this principles and vice principles up and let them talk they I feel like they know more they can chime in if if they want so if principes have any [Laughter] questions they put the mic on me so I can go up here and pull up anything from before to be able to talk about it yeah we have an extra microphone to so

079for I've got two over here yeah so if we have a principal that wants to grab the microphone so I'm just handing it to Cathy we have two extra microphones I was going to make her come up here yeah you was on the camera a while ago you yeah where you y just all come up here we got plenty of M messing up Mr well they told me we camera now who told you that you sit right here I'll go there next to Jennifer by the esteemed East Cofe that's exactly right here I'll slide down you get right you slide right in there we're always he no that's a good point input from the principales is is important because these are their schools want to take that into account all right so I would say

080run through the presentation again and we'll we'll be able we got the time and the format to ask be a little more informal about asking questions sure um so I I'll just kind of give you the the high level overview as opposed to going into detail so we can jump into the questions um we talked a little bit about the pyramid and what we study you start with physical conditions and capacity because those are the most objective things what needs to be fixed and can it hold the kids everything above and beyond that really gets into subjective Safety and Security being next in the pyramid then up to curriculum uh activities and Community use above and beyond that um we study a lot of different data and information as we're looking at this to try

081and determine what you actually want to do or need to do in the buildings both in the objective and subjective side um talked a little bit about the RFP scope uh in terms of this is what it said you were looking to do so we're basically studying uh is it an addition does an addition work uh determining what that scope would be and you also asked us to consider what the cost of new construction would be if that was deemed necessary and develop budgets so from a physical condition standpoint just a big overview we looked at the fact that there's probably about $3 million in terms of Maintenance needs that have to happen to the building now you can obviously prioritize a lot of this as you go forward and say do we have to

082do everything in one year can we spread that over time the study shows that you can do that uh then we take a look at the capacity of the building and how it's being utilized today to understand uh really what the building layout is uh Target capacity at two section would be somewhere in that 275 to 280 student range uh this one for K5 as it's currently being used is about 260 uh to get to full 3 section would be up at a little bit over 400 uh and you got potential in the building without an addition to be at 300 so we know that to accommodate a full three section U model building it would need an addition of some type at uh East coffee same concept that Hickerson in terms of how it's

083being utilized today now it's important to note that capacity can change from year to year depending on which spaces you're using for what for example if you have a higher special education population you need to take another room for that that's going to lower the capacity of the classroom parts of the building pretty straightforward just math problem uh in terms of your enrollment from 2024 25 uh compared to the other buildings in the district we know that um the TU section capacity model accommodates the current enrollment uh but to get to that District equity for a three section model uh it would need additions to do that currently there's no addition capacity that's needed at the building today but that does not talk about what's going to happen in the future and that's really where

084we need enrollment projections to be able to say when you hit this population you are going to need to do something at the building uh we looked at a space analysis just in terms of uh room size compared to what we would see as uh guidelines as well as what new construction might be to know where some of the issues are in the building and uh in the RFP as you're addressing things like gym space uh cafeteria space that addresses some of it but it doesn't address all of the needs at the building and so we noted some highlights there for analysis uh we also put together a draft program for what a new school would be so that we get into the comparison cost running it at a true three section model similar to

085what the other buildings are we'd know what size we would need to do uh this is just a draft because this doesn't have a lot of input in terms of how large specifically or small specifically do you want any of these cases this would just be sort of a starting point for what new construction would be uh we ran a security analysis that looked at a number of different facets in terms of are there things that we' recommend for the building uh and we didn't put that in there obviously to keep it private as opposed to public and then we started looking at some site analysis for the buildings in terms of where could we put additions if we had to put additions onto the building where could we accommodate new construction um found U

086the East coffee s's a little bit more workable than the Hickerson site Hickerson s's got a few more challenges both in terms of access points where the current building is located Etc from a traffic standpoint uh then we got into oops sorry how would we do a a new building just from a diagrammatic standpoint and just ran through if we were laying it out how might some of these spaces work so that we could take a look at in a new concept how would you make that work for your existing buildings and could you accommodate that and came up with for East coffee there's some uh ways that we would look at for expanding that building that would really make improvements to get it to like new construction in terms of layout um also to

087determine where additions would best be suited on the site both for the current as well as for the future and looking at that making sure that we're not uh boxing you into a corner with any of these things that we would do and again these are diagrams these are not intended to be this is the design this is the floor plan this is so that we can start to say does it fit on the site and what budget would we apply to it if that was what we were going to do because that is what's going to be needed to uh help you make decisions uh looked at how we would expand parking and traffic drives on the site as well as separating uh bus and and uh parent traffic did the same thing for

088Hickerson in terms of looking at that again I know I'm going really fast to this because this is just a quick recap to get us into the question part uh simple revision of existing drives at hickerson's possible there a little bit uh variation on that uh in terms of how we look at buses but to really get to that separate Bus Parking we know that uh we'd have to take a look at uh doing some modifications down to the south side of the site uh to get that on there in terms of looking at the additions uh we are going to be into that playground area regardless I think with anything that we're doing whether it's drive or addition onto the building and we've got the property line to the South that really is um

089that's a complication as well as the fact that the site drops off pretty significantly to that side the addition that you currently have on there that was done in the 90s that's setting up a ways off of the site already so anything you went out further to the South it's going to be almost a full story up compared to where the main entry is uh space analysis if you did these types of additions it does address and correct the size for some of those UND uh undersized rooms within the building so we think that's a viable option and from an addition standpoint again not knowing which of these things you would want to do or how you want to approach it we just put together sort of a almost an all a cart menu and

090said here's the budgets that we would put in place for each one of these uh if you did the full extent of that compared to what new construction costs would be and we always use a rule of thumb of if an addition and renovation on the building is going to exceed 60% of what new construction would be that's a good time to start saying does this really make sense for us to do this or should we be cons considering new construction right now you're at 5050 which does not make this an easy question because you're pushing up against that Mark um in terms of why new construction uh I would say that we usually look at it uh from a couple of different um standpoints one the existing buildings just falling apart it's in bad

091shape then you would say yeah we should replace that neither one of these buildings are falling apart they are fixable uh if you wanted to get at a completely new style of uh educational design for curricul or instruction then you might say it but I would also ask the question are you okay having one or two of your buildings be drastically different than the other ones in the district from an equity standpoint and that might be a question and then uh that would also beg the question of could we make those changes in an existing building and I think you could it might mean the additions are slightly larger but you could get at some of those new construction design ideas with that addition so from our perspective we like to come in with the

092lower cost and say you can do this for Less money than what new construction would be and it's going to make a huge difference in the schools uh and then we just put together a quick schedule on that I think that was the Pres presentation from before so with that I'll stop talking really fast and answer questions hopefully answer questions principles yeah he's got a whole bunch of question so um one thing I didn't notice which you I know you said that this was not sorry I I know that you said this was not um like an architectural design but I didn't didn't notice anywhere for a clinic on there uh we didn't put a clinic like a community clinic in no like a like a nurses Clin nurses room we do have the nurse

093accommodated in the design of the program it's with the administration area most of those so we do have additional space for for the uh for the nurse and CS in each of the designs okay and then um I like when you're talking about the sped um the inclusion services and things like that so we have like we right now we utilize an entire classroom for that but that's because there are four adults going with groups at the same time so one small space is not going to be enough to accommodate that correct and but we're putting in multiple smaller spaces to be able to accommodate that as opposed to having everybody in One 900 square fo room and then if we're adding art we're going to need a space for that we do not have

094art because art is not one of your current programs so we did not lay that out in anything if that's a space you would add then we would have to it would be another again 9900 to 1500 sare foot room depending on how large you would want that to be um is is that cost updating the fire alarm system Jacob I believe that's includ I have to dig it up this is for Hickerson right nuts in bolts 30,000 there should be a summary at the end of all of these that shows yeah total mechanical I think it's in the I believe it it is actually and then I wondered if sprinklers would be included over the entire building or just the new in our $3 million uh figure roughly 3 million for each one we

095have full fire alarm system and or fire alarm extension because you've got fire alarm systems in the building um and full sprinkler costs included in that so it it's because I know that we have some issues with our fire fire alarm system now like we we can't detect where what alarm is going off and things like that easily so I wasn't sure if that would be updated or not as you would go through yeah everything would get updated with uh State Fire Marshal upd and that's what I ass but I didn't want to assume anything there there is a caveat on that the existing system would be allowed to expand and would not have to be digital addressable if you were doing a full replacement of the fire alarm system you would have to upgrade

096to a digital addressable system with voice evacuation which would allow you to detect where that where that initiating device is um that's something that I just worked through with the State Fire Marshall's office down in Gil so uh I do have a a onetoone comparison that I could put next to that um so something I did notice on there um on the Hickerson diagram it had a a 235 capacity and we are currently at that capacity that's your existing building that we showing yes yes um and then um ESL was there a space for ESL Services uh I believe there was yes we were commentating ESL in there um is there any like I know that there's some storage closets and things like that but are there plans to put storage closets in the classrooms

097no we did not plan on doing that if we did it would make each classroom smaller by the size of the storage closet you could certainly do that but um often times we like to have conversations around storage and say what are you storing and what's the best way to do it then uh does Cold Storage make more sense than building uh storage new uh if you're doing additions for example um just because of the cost per square foot so uh we don't have converting existing classrooms and adding closets into them we certainly could put a budget number together for that if that's what we wanted to do I think you're better off with doing case workk or Cabinetry or something like that than building closets for not um and then it's like in our

098building is the bll room being addressed at all Yes uh we did have that in there that uh it was part of the I'm trying to remember exact how we had diagrammed it out but uh we did say it's the one underneath yeah it's the one underneath when you you when you say is it being addressed What specifically are you wanting to do with it like it needs to be encapsulated or or something because smells tend to come up from that especially when it's wet it's not being used now right it's it's not corre did you get did all the furniture come out it's not out okay we we don't specifically have cost to fully decommission that because our understanding is that it's not in use and you don't want to use it um we

099could certainly remove the door Breck it up we could demo back the mechanical system the floor drain is probably what you're really smelling if it if it backs up those are things that we could cap off and get rid of um being that it is a low point and it is underground without filling it in I would not recommend getting rid of the floor drain because it is the one thing that keeps it from being a swimming pool so if there is things like that that are little additional scope that we didn't have included in here we can certainly make sure that we get that number included I think on Hickerson one of the questions the the board had last time if I recall correctly is what uh Dr Crabtree brought up was the capacity

100and that the design is kind of for the current capacity and and how are we and and and I think there's some thought that that there's possibly some development going on in the area that could increase that capacity I mean it's we don't have any projections or anything that I know of but but that's that was something that came up I believe in a board meeting so again without knowing what your enrollment projections are it would be hard for us to say this building is the right size our capacity for this goes up to a full 3section plus so it would be the same size as your other buildings uh if the addition was put on and it went up that size which would more than address your current capacity issues as well as prep

101you for the coming future if it's larger than that if you need to look at a four section or a five section building which is very different than your elementary schools you could do it on this site you have plenty of room to build out here you could put a building out there we could figure out how um the play uh play fields and playground areas work it actually gives you a lot more room in terms of developing a really good parking lot for it but not knowing how big you want to make that right now based on enrollment projections with is the biggest question uh a three section building is going to get you really far into the future with all things growing at the rate you're growing now or looking at things if

102you've got a major development coming here that's going to swamp this no pun intended swamp this area or you know put this area in Jeopardy you would really have to consider a first you want to go to a five-section building when you don't have any five-section elementaries or you're going to look at boundary issues and be what is that and when's the right time to do it so you're not overbuilding an anticipation of that coming projection okay my thought is that an elementary school just needs to be so big to begin with so we need to just go at that point if you get past that it's not effective so uh 350 I think would be the maximum of what an elementary school should be K through five and what is the the capacity for

103it at this point with the renovation um can take a look at at your other buildings that are my own chart remember how I put this together your three-section model is at 390 as you take a look at it so that would be size is a three section model if we put that addition on and build it to three section then it would be currently today it is not and that's that's what you're looking to do but we can add additions to it to get it to a three-section model without any issue on the existing site I think I know what you was talking about just so I'm on the same page once you start getting to 350 we don't need to look at more this right School dist exactly and I I see no

104doubt that it's going to go over 300 in the future pretty quickly at that if we if we uh attract all the kids that are they're eligible to go to here I'll put it that way so I think one of the things you'd have to look at then with this the uh this size building is do you put an addition on on this get it up to that three section and still know that you've got more kids coming again depending on what the enrollment Direction say because then you might say if we're going to have to build another new school anyways we might be better off building a new school somewhere else in the district not doing the addition on this building do renovations to keep it a two-section building so now you'd have a

105three and a two section to accommodate your need much more than putting an addition on here bringing this up to three and still being faced with a pending need potentially of a new elementary school just to clarify also Hickerson right now is not at a true two section model uh fourth and fifth are on a three classroom rotation and you only have the one pre space so it's actually less than a full two-section building right now and you got two prease right sorry and you got that nasty baller room that's going to be there yes even if you that on and and you're going to have that issue yep I think that's a good way to look I'm really following you on the max per school before we start looking at more schools in different

106places throughout the gwn of course the other end of the building here is who knows what they're going to do that'll back up mhm just FY had to bring that out right now I think North coffee is at a three section School uh Hillsboro might have fourth section I'm pretty sure uh East coffee is mainly a two section uh Hickerson is is basically two with a fourth fifth going down to one in some parts there Deerfield I think is mainly a two section maybe some three um so so most of our schools other than Hillsboro is a three section or less at this point and so if you did go up to three sections at Hickerson that would be putting them basically where the rest of the schools are and also East coffee would be

107needed in my opinion a three section school as well uh I'd hate for us in Jennifer say something I'd hate to put this much money in in the County Commission putting this much money into schools and not put any classrooms and then next year get some increases and you don't have enough space uh you have to buy we don't want to get into that that that is not a good good model um so in my opinion I think three sections is a good setup in a a pretty good Siz School in the the s for side I think something we need to look at is that for instance North coffee is that capacity just about would you say what how what is their enrollment I'd have to look up their enrollment but are they at

108capacity no well I mean I'm not I'm talking about numbers of kids the number of nor coffee North North coffee still has space to grow what is their what is their enrollment this is currently your uh how many how many of each grade you have in each uh each the total okay it's 338 322 338 is their enrollment so that's getting close to that 350 so what I'm saying nor coffee is the point you don't add on to that anymore if you you know I mean we've got to look at the whole picture do we need a new school somewhere that's going to help us in the future if North coffee gets over you know gets overpopulated to go to Pierson uh all the populations at Hickerson now would be a part of that school

109we've just got to look at it for the future because no matter what happens with the uh well no matter what happens we're going to grow whether it's five acre tracks or 8/10 of an acre tracks and uh it it we can't stop it right now uh nor North coffee well North coffee has has Room to Grow there there's there's rooms there for them to grow into uh Hillsboro has rooms to grow into uh new Union has sever several rooms to grow into uh Deerfield has rooms to grow into the the east or Hickerson has the least to grow into and that's reason while we're talking about Hickerson okay I'm looking at Hillsboro they've got 47 students do we want to have any more kids to grow into what I'm saying is there are rooms

110there for them to take kids if we had to I'm not saying we want to I'm saying there's rooms there to put kids if we need to uh all the schools have rooms open to be able to put kids into you might not want to make them that big I'm just saying there's room point I'm not looking at we can fill the I'm sure every scho fill up the room with with some type of educational program I don't think anybody's got a room sitting empty I'm saying we have rooms that we can put classrooms with kids and them there's open classrooms to put kids okay I want to stop at 350 I'm good at that I'm just saying there are open rooms in every one of our schools except for really Hickerson and East has

111a few but not many it wouldn't take much to get them to that point so those we have schools that have classrooms that aren't being used I didn't say they're not being used I said we have okay that's my point okay A a classroom can be used with a counselor by themselves in it it could have a room with PTO stuff in it that's being used but it's not a classroom with kids in it if we had to pull that stuff out and make it into a classroom yes it it's there to be used as a classroom so that's what I'm saying they so you're saying there's rooms that's not being used non-essential non-essential here here's not being used as a classroom for kids as a grade level class but I my my thinking is

112that a psychologist or or a a a counselor needs a room so anyway I'm and I'm not disagreeing with that I'm going to use a psychologist a psychologist doesn't need a full classroom for what they do they they need about the size of an office uh if you talk about speech teacher usually they need about half of a classroom they don't need a full classroom but we have speech teachers using a full classroom just because it's there and it's available MH where is that our our school coffee I know our splits with storage a quarter of it is storage yeah quarter we had to use for storage here's a here's a visual example we look at anything that's the size of a classroom that's not being used efficiently for the people that are in IT

113schools will use every room because schools need to use every room and it's satter's rights they're going to say oh there's an open space there let's put some counselors in there could we find a more efficient room than a 900 foot classroom for these counselors absolutely then you'd be able to use it for a classroom so these Open Circles are rooms that we say those are classroom Siz room room that have potential push came to shove you needed to put more kids in the building that's where you're going to do it and you're going to figure out how to do this differently you might lose your conference meeting space for a year okay so we have three at e copy that aren't being used yes changed since we got four you might you might have

114something different we've had we've added a classroom since we last met so that's the other thing they keep changing it on even even at at New Union in North coffee they have a community room that the plan was whenever they redid and did the additions the community room used to be the the library they made a new library well instead of going ahead and cutting the room into two and making two classrooms which is perfect size they didn't need the extra classrooms yet so they left it as one big room and they're using it as a community room where they could do uh Book Fairs or they could do uh whole grade level coming in and meeting together and it works really good but it it was actually set up so that it was going

115to be two classrooms but they just didn't need it yet but in the future if it was needed throw a wall up you got your two classrooms okay well I'm thinking this maybe we need to concentrate on the school that is at capacity and has no room and put all our resources there I mean that's just a thought and and that's that's up to the board the the thing that you're going to run into also is look at the the land area that you have at the different places uh and one of the things that Hickerson does run into is the landlocked uh which kind of runs into with with uh the base where it's at compared to where the Lake's at and and where North coffee comes in and also Manchester City there you

116know there's some problems there with that part of it uh whereas East coffee might run into you're you're a little bit more open you have more chances of more houses being built I'm not saying that they're not going to be at Hickerson it's things that you got to look at the only two schools that can would be struggling to grow very much is both hon and East coffee so the goal was to take care of both of them so that all of our schools are set and ready when this mega growth hits they're all going to be able to grow and and they're not going to be they're not going to be strangled on on sides you got time you got time to grow with them before and and actually plan if you need more

117schools right more we're equivalent in numbers so we we both have the same amount we are five more we we take pride right now in being five more than them uh because we keep competing on our sheet there but we are at the same number of students where where is the and this may be a mood question but where is the cut off in the zoning between Hickerson and North coffee well you got a whole line there I've got the the document or the the map to show you some some from across the lake toward T go to North coffee most of the ones across the lake go to North we used to call the old Jones Elementary area some of the Joneses came to Hickerson and several went to North coffee okay uh I

118think Fire Lake is is North coffee and back so I can't tell you the line without just showing it to you of course on the on the m i just general area you answer it yes question true yeah so um you know I look at the I like the the breakdown you we got the base project and then optional expanded scope of course you know if I'm if I'm wishing I I want it all so uh when I look at uh maintenance you know that's a hefty line and so uh but I you know being in the building there are some things in order to uh bring everything up up to par uh those are so and then I see the maintenance kind of breakdowns here uh when we're looking at mechanical systems and restrooms

119what does that all entail uh with that for the restrooms are pretty much just going in and cutting them and rebuilding them okay in those areas um there's some accessibility issues to address as well as just the um the level of the the plumbing in there needeing repair and then Aesthetics on top of that where you've got you know you've done different repairs and chipped away at tile before and you filled in with whatever is available and so you can see the scars of past renovations to it but for restrooms those are pretty much it's just easiest and makes the most sense to go in start from scratch in those areas uh because you'll actually get a little bit better capacity out of them yeah our plumbing needs it yes it's clogged a lot yes

120our kindergarteners like the toilet paper uh if I'm not mistaken we also had a line item cost a recommendation from our mechanical folks to actually go in and scope that line and see if there was some damage to the underground line somewhere that has not been identified so there isn't a full cost to replace that but there is some cost in that uh to actually see if we can't troubleshoot and identify what keeps causing that problem in your problematic bathroom okay and that would be above and beyond the resting themselves because now you're down into the infrastructure these copies on septic yeah y they both are both depends on the [Music] weather other questions for w I was just going to make the point that we have grown since we came out so yes our

121speech still takes a whole classroom up our counselor does but she teaches classes still um but we we gained a CDC class who definitely needs the space um and then the art potential of an art and so if any room on our list that I see is kind of a room that's open it's not circled on there it's that steam lab because that's kind of our multi-purpose room right now our coaches are housed in there when they're there our OT PT's housed when they're in there but every other room is used daily right and we did include the steam room as part of sort of the the assumptions for going for we did not put art in there because when we talked we said we don't have a plan to add art to the curriculum

122so if that's new then that's new and and that's something you know in the development process I think that actually could convert to that to an art space absolutely steam room art room that's an easy okay um the cost of East coffee Renovations 18 yeah and that would be that's for that's shouldn't have put so many animations okay 18000 I couldn't find East same page 178 it's close oh okay they're both the same okay sorry and this is looking at doing sort of what we would call the base project which just in looking at these buildings even if you don't increase the capacity you've already identified your gym and your music areas are really really small and you've done this addition on other buildings you know that you've got administrative expansion that has to happen

123as well as some site development issues in terms of your parking your traffic so this is where you started us on the road and we looked at okay are what are the additions look like to that building uh what's capacity look like how do you get get to some of those levels so I think just even if you did nothing with capacity you want to be focused at the top of this line and say let's say these remain two section buildings do you still address the cafeteria gym music size issues I don't think any of us want it to remain that small though then you'd be down yeah I all agree pretty much that we need it to have more space But even at the 18 million that doesn't include extra classrooms to go to

124three section space right no this is this is looking at where you're at today getting you up to that full two section and saying if you're at two section this is where it is to do an addition now that number is going up so now you're you are pushing against 60% but the question we still have is without having a really thorough enrollment projection knowing what you've got coming in terms of potential development in those areas are you better off saying maybe we should be looking at a new school right now and addressing this and just getting it to two section versus putting an addition on to get to three section if you're going to have to do that anyways or I like your recommendation everyone coming up if you had a if you had

125the benefit of having a set number that we want shoot for M goes discuss a set number that when our when our schools start getting to 325 350 students we C right that gives you an idea of where we need to be in our building to get a harder number and a little bit better number possibly yep well I I I think just to maybe bring up something historical that I learned whenever we were doing this is that that's already happened at Hickerson where a school got closed down and then more or less doubled the size of that existing building right so that's how you went from the original building to what you've got now we just if if if what I just said takes place we can't ever do that again right it's only

126it's only additional schools rather than removed schools and what happened in that closed down Jones a lot of those kids went into T they didn't come to Hickerson so there's still a pool of of qual of kids that qualify for coffee huny schools that aren't coming to our schools and a lot of it is because of the building and not because the school's not excellent I think it's a great school and but a lot of times that's what people look at is the exterior and and they uh assume that that it's not a good school it's a new school setting over here it is and that's that's sad but it's true potentially those kids could come back to PO County and and I mean especially particularly people that move into the area and I know

127this from experience I can tell them all day that is an excellent school I can show them what they're doing they pull up and they see an old building walk in with low ceilings and borderer rooms and you know things built on to it they they go somewhere else that and it's it's bad they do you could talk to your ecd people economic Community Development and they'll tell you the first question they have is quality of Education well they Bas they typically base that on the just the physical appearance of the building first I know but let me get me tell you a quick story years ago I was just right out of school and I went to a uh County Commission meeting in in Franklin Tennessee Williamson County and they're talking about getting new

128Industries to move to the county and they had a a cranky old County Commissioner named Clyde Lynch potato farmer way he described himself and he said well why do we want to do that why do we want they he referred to Williamson County of diple of the universe he said why do we want to do that why don't we just have a excellent school system and we'll get all those rich people from Nashville to move here and that's exactly what happened that originally that's 40 something years ago was the County Commission gave him cart blon and said here make this the best system you can and that's that's that's the key component of Williamson County's growth okay so y'all y'all are then you're pushing renovation is that correct uh we're trying to provide enough factual

129information to show you where you can go because I think ultimately you're going to have to make a recommendation and that's going to have to go to another body and that body is going to want to make sure that you've got all your ducks in a row that say we've got the support to do that that's what y'all push unless you have enrollment projections that show that growth is coming fast and soon we think you can accommodate these buildings because we think these buildings are fixable we think that they you know they're strong and with the right additions it's going to bring them up to similar capacity and quality as the other buildings in your District so yeah we don't see a reason to say you should build new and I know that's weird to

130hear in architect say yeah you don't need a new building but we don't we think the best use of schools is always can you get more life out of it and does that make sense it does help uh I just realized remember when I'm doing this so This slide is the top of your budget there so that top base project scope that aligns with the top uh for that when we go to this slide that's the optional projects and we go to this slide with a blue we don't have the blue price because that's what brings you up to three section which we don't see based on your current enrollment needed but we could price that for you if you want to go to three section so your budget slides in there are the first

131one and then the second one is the bottom half of it just for reference and just to notice that means that east east Media Center Library would not um would not expand or because on the basic price or your minimum it stays the same So currently it is just it works we're going to make anything work that y'all give us it's just small I mean it is small um she's still holding her tongue She said she said we're go get her a new library maybe not until she retires I don't know but that basic price doesn't include that common space and every student goes through that twice a week but if we if we wanted to adjust that you know if we want to do that and say can we do part of that right

132now we would take a look at yeah in order to expand that what are these spaces how we do that we have to put a little bit more here there's a way for us to say can do you just want to put put that on there but you're right that one did not have adjus in the media center right now and said again trying to keep that cost as low as possible and say if you're only going to do sort of the base level to even buy more time and go let's wait a year or two before we see what growth projections we have that would be a way of doing it and one of the things that Von said and I completely agrees is the Equitable between the schools we we have two schools

133that they have the small GM they have the small cafeteria they have the small Library the other ones we have taken care of that they they've got a nice gym the state-of-the-art they have a nice Library state-ofthe-art they have a nice cafeteria state-ofthe-art these kids deserve as much as those other schools do and and I think we definitely need to keep at least equable with those especially those core areas I don't think anybody on the school school board's denying that I know I'm just I know I'm just saying one of the things he had said we got to make sure we keep it equ I don't think you're saying something is going to have to happen we've got to do something both period Well my concern is Hiers exactly but I also have a I've

134got a longterm feel here and and I mean I just I feel like we should I feel like we should discuss as the board where we would like our school populations to be at we don't want them over populated we don't want too many people at one school if if at all possible that's a great idea to keep the numbers down as much as possible in schools because Coffee County even with the largest amount of growth one Elementary if we ever did get into a buy if we set our numbers at 325 to 350 and we want to make sure our schools are sized and tool to accommodate that and we did that and then we got to it it's kind of more of a long-term plan and then we got to it to where

135those are filling up it'll only take one school to really just drop with redistricting or our students and rezoning them it would just take one school to really drop that again and get you many many many more years you before you have to build another school and and what I meant my concern with secret and I don't mean that we don't need both my concern was the building now each coffee I think I think renovating it is would be a no-brainer cuz you certainly wouldn't want to put any school there that school's in good shape Hickerson would be to me just I'm just one person on this board but to me that's where we've got to really look at it closely because uh you know you're you're you're adding on but you're not really doing

136anything to the present building are you I mean no we would be we'd be changing considerable amounts of that building to I mean but you're not going to be you're not going to be able to do anything with the Boiler Room except encapsulate it no the 18 million but it's the same see we're spending the same amount on Hickerson just about as we are East and East coffee's building is a lot better condition you're not having to do a whole lot to the present building are you no so basically that money is going to it's about the same in terms of the quantity of R you're having to do to East coffee it's pretty similar between the two we have a bowl room too yeah also in various states of use yes we didn't see

137it huge difference between what we have to do at each building it's not like it's oh East yeast coffee's got this much but hickerson's got this much to it we're really going to be in trouble here so it's it's very similar in terms of approach and y'all got to y'all got to understand where I'm coming from I was here when we built on to Jones we spent all that taxpayer money on to Jones school and then we don't even have it now I don't want that I'm not that's not going to happen in Hickerson because it's part of you know it but I don't I can't stand to go with that that school and think of all that money we put on that old building and that old building is is about the same age

138as here you know wa I don't know that's just my thinking and I'm going be buy it backod it going back to once again the three sections and like I said north coffee has three sections and right now they're at the 344 that's including the the prek so 350 but but it is set up still that they could add more kids if they needed to so if you're looking at the 350 three sections is what you're going to be needing to make that work either way and and that's the size I'm hearing as Jones actually say more I've heard say twice but I would like to see prices for the three sections that's easy we can do that I'm leaning more towards go big or go home type of things I don't want I'll just

139go ahead Focus out here for y'all three but I'm going to say it's going to be around 22 21 22 million Hickerson probably yeah to get to three section that' be for the no no no I'm going to say that on East coffee Hickerson I'm going to say it's probably going to be an extra 3 million and then by then you're only you're only 10 to 15 million under new scho work for you but you you're only 10 15 million from a new school mhm am I wrong that's a scary thing I'm not sure that that is is right but we could we could sh Dr in a pencil and and let you know I mean we no what I'm saying is when you're at 25 million I'm talking $ 35 to $45 million for

140a new school yes if if you're looking at that upper end it's a bigger Gap if you're looking at the lower end it's a smaller Gap right but well by the time you you take Hickerson to a three to a three section school you're going to be probably close to $25 million yeah I bet this addition I would say is probably going to be three and a half to four million by itself so you're going to be doing renovations for plus doing renovation you're going to be getting about $25 million y you're right well then you add another1 to $15 million on it you're tearing up buying a new school yep that's why I said you're going to push that 60% number up real quick so that's where we are ultimately and yall like that's

141not a funny number between the two well like Jacob said ultimately what what this group comes up with and and what it's trying to come up with tonight is what needs to be figured out that's going to be going down the road or the building here to get funding for U and and I do want to go back and just make sure everybody understands and I know this has been five years ago new Union was the additions that we put on which was all the things you saw was $5 million for North Coffey is $5 million so County Commission about six seven years ago gave gave Coffee County Schools just for those two schools a total of $10 million to do those two schools with classrooms and everything so what I'm all I'm saying is

142we're going to have to go and ask somebody else to give the money and whatever we take to them that's going to make a difference yeah y'all know that I just they're pretty they're pretty smart when they look at 25 million versus 40 million new versus repair that may not get us all the way where we need to be they're also smart enough to understand that's that's one building little bit better deal I know I'm talking about the one building I know just one a concern you'd have too I think if you were to build a new school somewhere then the dirty word comes in you got to reone yep uh yep I was actually just going to say to to Miss Jones and Mr Gilly's point that if you do go about getting a

143third party enrollment projection study you could absolutely include a looking at redistricting in order to identify where a new school would go should you choose the third option which is leave those two in place add another school to your system in order to deal with capacity so there is there's another option out there and if you are going to be pursuing that that is absolutely something that you would want to make sure that you're your group that's doing your enrollment projections or you're studying for redistricting uh or rezoning would would include that as part of their and if that's something that the board would like I can get with these guys to get some names and bring you some prices for uh a study if that's if that's the direction the board would would like

144to pursue I I think that's a excellent I don't know be a great idea to have a study done know I think you're going to have to have some numbers before you can even start to say what we need it may come down to just hey at the Hickerson School let's fix the vital things that are dangerous or whatever and do the best we can because we're ultimately going to end up looking at another school right over here next door spend you 30 and $40 million there instead of between two schools that's not fair though that's not fair to EAS coffee into Hickerson when they're shabby and these other schools are nice they I'm not saying about leaving them shabby I'm saying you do your vitals you need to do and you fix them up

145and we look at a gym of course building just a gym is a lot cheaper than building the whole big package if you don't need it for the room I mean yes you got to address you got to address I would hate to say well we're going to be building a new school so don't worry about think nobody here okay just making sure is there not space on that property out there for any school aters uhuh there is only if you're going to tear down the existing Hickerson after you build it yeah but one thing about if you're going to build a new school that thing to go well one thing that remember about Hickerson is you know and this has come into the projected growth is how much is T going to expand out

146toward it because T that's the only way T can grow now because they're locked in by county lines is is back toward Hickerson so you'll start losing you know if there's several subdivisions being built you can bet tell home's going to reach out and grab them they're going to want that money am I correct when I think that if you go to Hickerson you can usually go to T schools as well cuz I know a lot of the the fifth graders some of them went to T got they do okay I didn't know can't the city or the county or anybody can't Manchester City or Toom cannot Annex you or Annex land without the owner agreeing to it right I realize that but what I'm saying though is you know yeah you have a big

147development come in you know they can start looking at that yeah you know and I know they're doing that we Farm next to Rose Hill and they have a note right now because TGC I'm talking in this one TGC is trying has bought the land next to the Rose Hill and they're trying there's a note to go out to go have that approved for it to become city um and it's only because we farm that that they're trying to get that City so 55 is starting that they're trying to start getting commercial businesses CFC is really trying for it to be commercial it's actually in the ugbs that everywhere even School we just talked about this a minute ago on an industrial board we had an industrial board meeting the problem with t of course

148is a railroad track you can't expand so much and so you're going to have to go out and toward Hickerson yes that's the problem that you're going to have because that railroad track dictates a whole lot of stuff and you don't really realize it until you really start looking at it from a growth perspective that you got to go you can't you know that railroad track just dictates a whole city I learned that yesterday they can Annex but they cannot take the school yes ma'am they can't take the school and if those kids are are already going to Hickerson school and it's a good school they're not going to take them in T I mean you know few of them may not may but most of them aren and a lot of times what happens

149with that and I agree with what you're saying completely but but over time it's it starts bleeding back the other direction it stays that way until that group of kids is out of that school and then it starts switching back but I agree with what you're saying well and what I'm saying is I'm not for this renovation if it's not going to make them have uh the the what are you calling it I call it enrollment if it's not he's been calling it section number number per grade level that's not I mean that they need a three section the same as anybody else so and I know it sounded like I was being factious when I said only if you're going to tear down Hickerson my concern is if you have that much growth coming

150that you need a new school if you simply replace this one and build a new school there all you're doing is adding a net of one section one classroom per grade and you're losing the capacity of this you may be in a position where you say it makes sense for us to do the gym additions to get these things right keep these at two sections build a new Elementary someplace if we need to and then over time we bring these both up to three section to handle your capacity we just don't know what that is unless we have an enrollment projection that shows us how fast you're going to grow you'll meet you I'm G play Devil's ADV I'm sitting on the County Commission and I've sit through County Commission meetings when school boards have

151present budget request and one of the first things they ask is are we growing and how much are we growing so the more information we can give them you the more lik okay that makes perfect sense because I I've worked with a lot of counties across the state and the county commissions don't get along with school boards most of the time the get a little more receptive of late because of the growth but I think the the study would be a great benefit as far as it's another tool to present to the County Commission what what does a study like that cost typically I mean range lies all par I'll take a look I don't want to misquote okay we I just want to say uh they could have done a study on R County

152never realized what was happening to them and and that's to me it's just the no-brainer we're not going to stay stagnant here whe even though we want to oh you're in Middle stay you're in Middle you're in M Tennessee and we have people moving that from California that have a 2hour drive one way to work every day so property all over the Middle Tennessee area has been bought up by people that don't mind staying in the car four or five hours every day I know and it's and we have the interstate system that gets them there quickly I can also do a little bit of The Devil's Advocate on this one because I was just looking at an article this morning that Williamson County paused some additions in new schools because their projections that they

153had did not meet what the actual growth was so it's it's kind of a moving Target everywhere um and and without at least having somebody who's looking at all of the facets of it you're you're really just kind of going by your gut yeah about the only thing you can do is say we don't want more than 350 kids in our school that's the only thing you can do but that would be the criteria we would use getting getting the numbers and getting a study that's that's the only thing we can do here I at this point you know we got to know numbers before we move forward no matter what we doe Scott Scott well no we we were just talking about again we've got two of the biggest industrial parks in the state

154of Tennessee here I mean it's coming you know we got one in Memphis and we just got through selling one to the state it's 1,845 Acres out here on 55 so the growth's coming and we we're going to have to look at it like we know that it's going to come and I think freda's got a good very good point of you know we're going to grow but I me we're still going to have to have Hickerson because you know we got an industrial park out next to out next to Hickerson you know and Joint industrial park is over there well we' already bused some children like they're over there by Normandy Y and and that's they're on the bus for a long time already you wouldn't want them going farther than that so yeah

155I mean that's I think it's part of the thing of the uh that we're having with our land and subdivision thing now is you we're going to but it's you know Fred is right she's she's the real estate agent that it's it's coming and we're going to have to get ready for it and we're going to be a part of that so should we ask Mr Shores to go and get us some quotes or on on doing a study I'm in I'm in agreement with it is there a chance that the County Commission has already done a study like are there other I don't know a lot about is there another group in this town that may have already done a study we can just say hey what did that say probably would know that

156more than I would I'd say there's a group of uh uh people against the latest proposals at the county on the other end of the building I think we' got one okay that way we could maybe just I it's probably going to grow toward T then out toward my way yeah no I've asked the people down at the other end of the building you know that those people down at the other end of the building they don't they don't have before I would go and get I mean I could bring you I mean proposals to you and you can decide what you want to do but I will talk to to Mayor hunt and ask him if he knows of any group any one of the Committees that might would have that type of data

157so that if they do then we can use it instead of have to pay for it but but if they don't then you can still move forward with it the other way I'm pretty sure we have it indust board but I do know that that the majority of the developments now are are like you said they're getting annexed into the city like out of Highway uh you know out behind Bud Riddle's property that new subdivision it's part of the city so it won't take you know they won't be going to North cop okay I'm going to ask this group the board what do you do you want me to or not uh Scott said that he's got it if yall want to we can use what he's got or if you want me to move

158forward and try to find the other I will but but since Scott's got it I'm I'm fine with him presenting it instead of me go ahead Jennifer I'm just going to say if you have it then I think we should try to use it so our firm does public sector work we do government we do education we do Healthcare Senor living and I will tell you that the demography studies that counties and cities do are not trying to calculate how many kids are coming to the schools they're looking at what kind of infrastructure they need how they need to expand their services that type of thing so it will give you part of the uh solution it will not tell you how many kids you have coming and house suing it'll tell you how many

159houses are being built and then you'd still have to speculate on that so help us sound reasonable when we ask for a new school I would I would say more likely what would happen would be your folks that would be looking at your enrollment projections would reference that study and would use that in order to develop some more concrete versions as a as an existing document existing planning document existing um Municipal work in progress or planned they would use that as part of their projections so it would it would be more like underlying data that feeds into their study and not necessarily something that you take as actionable right away it may even be that uh some demographers will study all these types of things they might say well we've already studied that for the

160county we'll just add on this part to it so if that's a if the demographer they've used has that capacity to understand School enrollment as well then they could just expand that kind of like having a survey say can you do a little bit more all right okay um I would say let's see what what uh the industrial board has if we need to supplement that then then you know shores would go ahead so what um what do we need um W to do here price on 3 section so for both schools please what I would suggest based on your discussion is we'll work with Kelvin to uh find out who the demographer is what study information they have and then if we need more bring recommendations on that price out the three section uh

161for additional size and um maybe even start looking at land and say where do you have available land if you did have to build a new elementary school that wasn't on the Hickerson side look at a new school for and when I say this we're not charging you money for this just to be clear stool option at Hickerson yeah it cost for a new one compared to do any the three section and would that be a three section School uh yes we could we could price it at 3 section versus two and that's not our problem I think our our conceptual program that you've already put together is for a three section model right correct but basically we'd be going back to the county and and ask him to finance $60 million is what come

162pretty much comes down to if you had a new school and then did the renovations at East coffee is that about right you'd be in that ballpark sure so well 30 30 if you just did it at one school yeah right yeah all right any other questions for w and we can wrap this up just briefly I know this is a work session you already had established topics I watched the board meeting yesterday apologize for not being here if there were any questions that you wanted to ask us about the lighting study I'd be happy to answer it we could do that after the meeting or we kind of tore you apart I'm sorry it was for me it was a lot of numbers but that's because it's me it wasn't your fault I've talks

163[Laughter] I was there I was there in spirit that was a long meeting well he's got a new baby girl at so he's probably sitting there playing with her while he's watching okay got it all right so okay which school district is she going to um any questions on the lights while we're at it but I all right well there's no further questions we can wrap up this meeting and uh Mr dwood and we are done thank