001is called to order. You would join me in a moment of silence and the pledge. [Music] Thank you. Salute pledgece to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [Music] Want to welcome everyone here tonight. See we have Mr. Patterson, Colonel Maul, Mr. Threat present. Glad to have y'all. So, Madam Secretary, roll call, please. Miss Dole, Mr. Van Winkle, here. Miss Nagels here. Miss Stout here. Miss L. Mr. Davis here. Mr. Matthews here. Mr. Cole here. Mr. King here. Stole and hail are absent from the meeting. Okay. First thing we need to do is approve the agenda. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Second. Motion and second. Any discussion? Being none, all those in favor
002say I. I. Those opposed say no. So the first item here is to talk about budget revisions. Turn it over to Dr. Farley. So when we went and presented our budget to the county commission uh we were asking for the 19 million uh that is the maintenance of effort and then we also were asking for specific capital projects to be separated and that was uh over 2.5 million and uh we were asking for those specific projects and um Board members, you've been given those packets. Um, if you weren't at the meeting that night, uh, those were placed in your box. Is that correct, Miss Diane? From the budget stuff that we gave them for the county commission. Was that placed in their box? Yes. Okay. If they had, they should have already. Okay. So, just
003want to make sure you have it. If you need something, let me know. I can get you whatever you need. Just a quick question on that. I had a couple of the documents. So, I had the capital project document plus the executive overview that y'all had at the meeting, but I was trying to follow along at the meeting with my budget draft one. And there was some things that y'all were referencing that I didn't have in the budget draft one. This has been highlighted. This has been noted. And that wasn't in my budget draft one. So, I didn't know if that had been updated since the last time we met and got that draft and approved that draft. I think probably what happened was those were highlighted because we knew that those would be significant
004increases or a change and they were highlighted that day. Is that correct, Miss Bray? I really thought you hadn't highlighted because I've only made those one changes when we did the salary. We have some highlights on it, but when I was following along with what you were delivering to the commission and everything was anything just I might have highlighted it for that night, I really can't say. Was there anything else that changed on it other than the highlights? Okay. So, um things that were uh initi uh original to the school like we were asking for Martin sewer assistance, we were asking for Martin drainage, we were asking for South Cumberland gymnasium floor, um we were asking for SMHS track. So, things that were original to the building, those were the main capital projects that we
005were asking for. So that left us with a $4 million deficit and they asked us to please come back and to please uh look at our budget and see where we could make some cuts. So that is where we are at right now questions. Okay. Uh, one thing that I do want to to bring up uh before we get into your packet that you received. So on uh April 24th, you all voted to put supervisors onto the teacher scale. And I just want to clarify for everybody here what that means. So, and I have these and I didn't make a copy for everybody and I apologize, but um the 2425 pay scale is on our website and the pay scale which I am looking from is the assistant principal, principal and systemwide supervisors and you
006all have heard it said many times and this is why you voted that night to put the teachers all on to put us all on one scale. Okay. So all certified people would be on that one scale. So if you look at the proposed salary scale and this is with a 1713 added in for 2025 and I'm just going to go to a doctorate and a systemwide person which would be all of the supervisors. If you look at year 25 and currently from 25 to 30, there's no increase and that salary um on the teacher scale is $81,220. $81,220 from year 25 to 30 with a doctorate and a systemwide person. And that's the teacher scale. Okay. Now if you look at a uh 2425 salary scale for the assistant principal, principal and supervisor and
007you start at year 25 and again to 30, you have no increase. This is flat pay. The diff the amount is $74,463. Now this did not happen overnight. Um, I'm not sure that many of you probably were on the board, but this has happened over a few times when we've voted and had budget discussions and the supervisors or the principles or the assistant principles, it was decided that they would not be getting a pay increase. So, that's why you have such a huge difference in those. And Mr. Matthews, I think you were aware of that and you had pointed that out before. Okay. So, any questions on that? Okay. So, the first page of your packet that you were given tonight, as you see, it has a list. It has all of the schools and
008it has a number. Okay. In our um budget um our teacher page, it says that we pay for 360 teachers. Okay. Well, we've had our a lotment meetings as I've told you and as I've told county commission, we met uh with all of our elementary teacher or elementary principles and we met with high school principles and we have cut some positions and we have made sure that we are within the classroom ratios that we need to be and we really don't have any additional fluff for classroom teachers and this is the total number of teachers that we need and we currently have which is 360.5. Now, be mindful this is just classroom teachers. So, at the elementary school, that's going to be your K8 home room teachers. And at the high school, that's going to
009be like your English teachers, your math teachers, science, social studies, etc. Okay. So, just wanted to make sure because I'm trying to double check and make sure that I'm thorough and I know that we have what we need and not anything extra built in the budget. So, quick question there. Yes, sir. So, if you look under um the budget under regular instruction line 116, can you give us the page on that? Yeah, give me a second. It's page five. Thank you. Yeah. So, we're looking at last year's 2324 budgeted $19,933,000. What line did you say? I'm sorry. That's on uh line 116. 116 for teachers. Okay. And this year we're budgeting $20,249,000. So last year we we missed that by 6%. Which is um little a little over $1 million that we missed that budget
010line last year just for teachers. If you look at that entire that entire page, page five, if you go down to total regular instruction, um that overall budget just for that area, we missed it by $2.3 million, which was 8%. Bas based on the numbers that Miss Bracing. So, we had 31 million total budgeted for that and we spent 288 So, uh, that's that's the fluff that I've been talking about. Okay. If I'm looking at that, I'm seeing budget 2324 and then actual 2324. There's a column that's blank and then it's our estimated actual for 2425. So, it's two separate years. So, it's two Yeah. No, Miss Brace sent me I think is this might be a separate sheet, but she sent me what the actual expenditures were versus what we budgeted for that year.
011Okay. Well, this all I have I don't have the information you're discussing. All I have is the estimate is the estimated actual for 2425 and the proposed for 2526. Right. That's what we've got too. So now these additional that's built in here, these additional teaching real quick. She just asked me how how she could get what I've got. I've got That's what I' I've got the same thing you've got. The the we've got out. It's the same thing. It's 2 million and 2223 and it's 3 million and uh 2324 of fluff of what we what we budgeted and what we actually spent. There's a $3 million difference that we didn't spend more or less. Okay, I apologize. I don't know what you're looking at, but I can tell you that's why we have met with
012principles and we have gone over to make sure that we have what we need. This additional three teachers if needed. What that is for is that is um if we have a a school that earns a teacher based on their ratios if they get out of compliance and we have to hire midyear. We had that at North. If you remember in November, you all uh were made aware of a compliance issue because we could not get anybody that was certified to teach seventh and eighth grade at North. So, there was a compliance issue until we could get that resolved. So, that's what that three extra teachers is there. Uh we have summer school money. There's lots of things in there. We did get money from summer school and I apologize, but I can't I I
013wasn't here necessarily and privy to that and know exactly why why there was fluff, but I can assure you I have looked at this and I've probably driven Miss Bray crazy uh by me looking at it. Well, we I understand that it, you know, it wasn't you that built this or or whatever, but for we've kind of been consistently adding extra money in and then not using it, you know, like according to this, it's 2 million two years ago and 3 million last year. Mhm. Mr. King said that, you know, we have the 360 in there. That's what it's budgeted for. So, if they don't show or you go and you can't fill a vacancy, maybe that's where some of that fluff comes from. I mean, that's a 1.3 million though. Yeah. Also, if you
014don't put Keep in mind that when I do this, I look at somebody and I say they got a masters in so many years and then I use that. I don't go in cuz I don't know whether when these people are in these 360 positions whe they're going to have a bachelor's in 5 years, bachelor's in zero. That's an estimate and that's a lot of it cuz I what I did is I took the list this year and I our average educator has an advanced degree in 10 years. They could have a master's, EDS or doctorate. So that's going to be part of it because you have people that are going to make less than that. Of course, you also have people that make more. I'm sorry everybody doesn't have a copy of this, but
015what I I really don't understand that either is because I send it out to everybody. Well, if it's not something that was made as a copy here, I'm not I I cuz I at home am not printing every time a new one has come out. I am not printing a new one from home because it's many many pages. So, every time there's been a draft that's been that's come out and has been provided to us, I have it in here. So that must not have been cuz I've got the budget one draft and that's what you have. Correct. But I don't think that what they're from my understanding what you all are talking about is a budget draft. Correct. Yeah, it is. It's a bud budget one draft that she sent for one. This is
016draft one and it had with uh prior years added or something. The first time the first time we got it it some of them was on legal paper. Yeah. Little long sheets of paper and all that stuff. Mr. Mr. Van Winkle, what's the date on that? The the date of the draft one. Yeah, it's 41 2025. That's when she sent it. That's what mine has two, but I don't have the information you're talking about. Okay. So, um, all I was going to say is so overall in that in that budget, we were 8% difference in what we budgeted and what we actually spent. So, if we just drop that to 4%, we're still we're still looking at uh having a cushion of $1.2 million. We cut the budget. We cut the budget by $1.2 million
017just just by taking that cushion out. We've cut it by four. So, but I mean that's a start. That's a good start. Yeah. And then and then you can look at the I'm sorry the the operation of plant and the maintenance of plant both have a cushion built into them as well. And I there's some more information here about that as well. Okay. Okay. So that's point one. Then I guess with the teachers classroom teachers, right? Yeah. Okay. And it's not it's not just teachers, it's every line in that instruction instructional budget. So all the way down. Yeah, it has it has the cushion built in all the way down. Can you move up to those? Yeah, I I will. Now the textbook line and then the software line are actual prices, right? Some of
018those some of those don't have any cushion in them because you know exactly exactly what you're paying, right? I got I get that. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I was going to say I actually put the percentage cushion for each line in this sheet that I'm looking at, but it it's just a column I added to her sheet. It's all all it is. So, Miss Bray and I talked about some items to maybe look at cutting or something that we may not be using anymore here. And I haven't had her to go in and change this budget 9,000 times and make you all copies. Uh I will get you your totals that you need. Um because do you really want uh you know all of these pages every time we make a single change? No. I
019think that would be a huge waste of paper. So that was my rationale and thought behind that. So the next page that you have. Okay. So this is supervisor salaries and this is uh classified or c yeah classified no certified duh certified um supervisor salaries. Okay. So you can see that there's several columns here and we figured different options to arrive at pay and you can see the amount of savings at each one. So let me go through and explain what each one is and then I will take any questions. So we've talked about trying to make sure that we have some other uh pay scale for supervisors and that's principles, assistant principles and supervisors at central other than the supplement sheet. Okay. So, Miss Bray has developed a sheet based on your position, a
020daily rate of pay, and that's um per uh that would be per day, per job, and based on your years, okay? And obviously that increases. So the base here is the teacher sca the teacher scale which you all voted to go to and then the flat ad which you haven't seen what that flat ad is yet but just wanted you to see some suggestions there and what a small savings that would be. So the next is the teacher scale plus percentage. So that's where you voted to move everybody and that is also um with the supplement percent that we currently have in place. Okay, that's a teachers plus 2%. No, that was just a teacher scale. The teacher scale and then their supplement percent that they have now, right? Okay. And you can see how
021much that is. Okay. Then if you go to the next line, that is if you take the supervisor's pay and uh freeze their supplement where they are right now. They're not on this one. They're not on the teacher scale, but they're getting the 1713 that teachers are required and a step raise if that's applicable to them. You can see the savings there. The last line is if you put them on the teacher scale and you use their 2425 supplements and you can see the savings there. And one thing you have to be really cautious about when you start messing with this is to ensure that no one's pay is being decreased and that is not happening in any of these. Um we have made a little bit of changes to one of the supervisors. Um
022and um Dr. Maddox as we know will be retiring. Um, so to replace him, you're probably not going to have someone to come in um that has 36 years experience, a doctorate, and 20 years admin experience. So, um, I looked at our current supervisors that's listed here, and we are adding into the budget someone with 20 years teaching experience, a master's degree, and 10 years admin. And I know that's kind of like maybe a stab in the dark, but it would probably be more aligned and more realistic than what we have currently. Mhm. Okay. So, you said we have to be careful not to decrease it. We just can't decrease the daily rate. Is that right? We could reduce the number of days that they work. It reduces the total That would reduce their total
023pay if you reduce the number of days that they work. Right. But you can't do that. Yes. I mean, you can reduce the n that the daily rate, as long as the daily rate stays the same, you can reduce the number of days they work, right? Even if it cuts their pay, they're just not working as many days anymore. So, when we voted to go to one scale, so we didn't have a supervisor scale and we didn't have the certified teacher scale as two separate scales. we voted to go ahead and um not not it would not include that 2% raise that we were looking at for the other positions. It was just going to that one pay scale and then you were going to come back with what the what it was going to
024look like with the daily rate piece. So which one matches that on this sheet? The teacher scale plus the percentage right in the middle is what's currently in the budget. Okay. And that matches what they voted in on April 24th. Is that correct? That's putting all of them on the teacher scale and figuring their percentage. So the next one, the frozen means we go back to the two scales. We still stay on one scale. All these people, they would just be frozen where they are. And then I added the 1713 that the teachers got. And then if they were eligible for a step raise off of the teacher scale, I just added that in. Okay. So we're not implementing the one aligning them all in one scale. Just phrasing it and giving them what the
025teachers would. So how they arrived at those numbers there is what the current is plus 171 13 and then a step if the person qualified. So that takes out that whole one the one scale. Correct. One scale. Correct. It does. And then the one the next one after that, the teacher scale plus the 2425 supplement puts us on that one scale that we voted on. Correct. That gives them the daily rate plus the supplement. Yes. Mhm. It's just the supplement would be frozen. It would be whatever the supplement was for this year. questions. What's the target of savings that we're trying to achieve by deciding which one of these we would prefer? Um, so, uh, I don't know that we have a target other than just trying to cut any fat in the budget that
026we possibly can. Okay. So, Miss Stout, you referenced 4 million just a minute ago. Is that what we're trying to cut? It's 4 million. Well, that was the county commission. Well, and they didn't really say cut so much, but they said they want us to come back with a plan of how we're going to cover that 4 million. Correct. Where are we going to get that from? If we're saying that we're short that we're not obligated to give them our plan at this point, but we're trying to is what I'm sure what you're saying. We are trying to. I think there's a concern that if we're supposed to be building up our reserve, but yet we have and we're supposed to be putting a plan in place to do that, but yet we still have
027a 4 million deficit, how are we going to cover that and build up the reserve? So, we still we don't have to build up the reserve either. We're doing So, my hope my hope right now is kind of this let let's get through this this budget. us get something in place and then I will be happy to try to work with some way that we can build up a reserve and come up with that and maybe I can do that and share that with the board before we go back to the county commission and they can see that we are working to to try to build a reserve. Everybody in this room is was copied on the email from our board attorney saying that we are not obligated to that 17%. Yeah. Yeah. We we
028want to try to get there. I'm not saying that we don't want to, but we're not obligated to do that now. Right. We didn't do that now. No, we can't. Right. So, we didn't create this mess either. On this sheet, I'll say that. Yeah. I mean, it's been years. L on this sheet that we have here, I see below each uh category that there's a certain amount of savings. So, the base Okay. So what that is is this would go this would correspond with a supervisor and their page and that's where it's going to reflect the savings. So like one of these supervisors obviously is going to fall under health service, one's going to be a special education, one may be a CTE. So their page is out there and then it tells you the
029current, it tells you with the changes that we have made in the savings. Okay. So I on the second column, the one that we voted on, I see that the savings is kind of a few lines below. And it seems to be the same the same amount as the savings under the third column frozen adding. Okay. So if I'm not mistaken, the page 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15. The total savings is that 64 323 83. That goes with those with those. There's not going to be a savings if you do the teacher scale plus the percentage. We're at that 775, right? There's not a there's not a savings with that. That's where we are right now. So that total was $64,000 if we make a So that's if you go with the base plus
030the flat ad. Okay. That frozen adding 1713 with current stuff. No, no, no, no. That savings is the base with the flat ad. So that's the first call. Nope. No, it's the it's the frozen plus the 7. I'm so sorry. Exactly. So sorry. [Music] But the big number is 64,000. Correct. Okay. So then if we were, let's say we were to go that route, then we would we would be back next year saying if we're trying to get them all in one scale, we'd be facing that next year again. Correct. And I don't mean to kick a can down the road, but um you know uh we do go back in June to present this uh would like to to see something prepared well before the deadline. Mhm. And um you know and then begin.
031So we've made some suggestions that would be well over a million dollars each and this is 64,000. It's not it's just a a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to go to. Right. And it doesn't get us to where we're wanting to go. The alternatives don't get us to where we're wanting to go. Exactly. Yeah. We we we have support right now to get everybody on the same scale. Okay. So, why not stick with that and and stay with what we said and other places to cut. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I will do obviously whatever you all want to do, but I felt that it was my due diligence to come up and give you some options that maybe you all hadn't thought of. Yeah. Thank you. We appreciate that.
032Mr. Matthews, do you have another place you have to be? Sorry. No, that's important where you're headed. I do believe to eighth grade night. Yeah. So, sorry guys. So, is there any other questions um about the salary? If I'm understanding you correctly, you want to stay at the teacher scale and the percentage. Well, I mean, we would need to vote on that, but yeah, we'd have to come back and change our vote on it. So, I would say for now, let's stay where we are with that. That would be later down the line if we can't figure out other areas, but we have that option now to look at. So, yeah, it's there. So, so the next page that you have that is uh some instructional supply monies that we have taken out of different
033budgeted budgets. Um and these are and I know when you say instructional supplies you think that they directly affect students and in some budget lines they do but in none of these they do. For instance, I was in charge of prek for years. We had no additional money other than to cover salaries. I came on a Saturday to present at a retreat and the board voted to give prek $10,000 for instructional supplies. What I did with that money, the teachers was getting no new supplies for their classrooms like furniture and things like that. So I would take whatever money we didn't use through the year like for curriculum supplements and things like that, take that and divide it by the number of teachers and they could pick out what they wanted for their classrooms. So,
034it's monies like that that we're talking about taking out here. And I get that these are minimum savings, but I am trying my best to come up with some savings uh throughout this budget um so people do see and know that we are trying to make some cuts. So, um if we took out of the preschool and the um the regular budget, um we would go from 312 to 295. So, that's a small savings. I get it. But there there's some cuts. Mr. King. Mhm. And and what is your expectation from this meeting today to see if we can find ways that we can reduce the total budget as our chair? Do you have any recommendations to go through this package and see where we're at? Is this a package that you prepared or I
035went through it with Dr. Parley? Yes. So if we just did every recommended thing on here, what would the total that be? Well, um I think that's going to You have that? It's over here on the It's back farther in the packet. Kind of depends on the option you choose for maintenance. Correct. So, it's the page, Mr. Mr. Davis, that looks like this. I've got That's the page you're on. Do you see it, Miss Nichols? This page. So, okay. But so, we've got We're We're how many millions away? Roughly four. Okay. Who owns all these buildings? Uh, that would be Cumberland County. Who maintains them? Cumberland County Schools. How much is our maintenance budget? Well, that's broken down and you have that 66,295,000. Correct. We can just delete that line item and the owners of
036the property could maintain their property. Is that a topic of discussion? Well, there's been some discussion about maintenance versus capital projects and capital projects being things that would maybe go along with the building ownership and maintenance like painting and things like that would go along with the school maintenance piece. So, at the commission county commission budget meeting, the capital projects were broken out and that's what was requested from the commission. But it wasn't everything because the buses weren't on there and there was some like north that's remodeling that's not maintenance is remodeling that would fall under capital projects. So really the 2.5 was less than if you're looking at capital projects would be. So total maintenance of plant we're we're proposing 4.432 million is what we're proposing for maintenance of plant. How did it get
037to 2 million on then? Well, I added some back. Operation of plan is 5.668 million. So that's on two different pages, right? Yes. Cuz one deals with custodians, the other deals with maintenance men. Yes. Yes, that's correct. That's plant is 4.4 43. Can you I'm sorry. Can you tell me the page? Yep, it's page 23. I did email this to everybody here. So, yep. Last year we budgeted 5.1 million and we spent 3.8 million which is a 25% miss on how much we spent versus how much we budgeted. Well, we did roll a couple of big projects, right? Next year. Okay. Which was about 1.5 of that. And you remind us on why we did that just couldn't they couldn't get it done. The whoever responsible. Yeah. I mean those are things that have to
038be bid out and they have to go through the architect. Nothing small that we can handle. Those are architectural projects. Gosh. Those are capital projects, right? So those are things that we could take out of the budget and do oneoff votes. Yes, sir. That's why I added made you a list. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that's if we're going to make big cuts, we're going to do it. Yeah. Well, I did ask her, so what would the total maintenance budget, and that's going to be page 22 and 23, what would that look like if you removed 500,000 if you removed 300,000 and if you removed 250,000? and um and I understand um I understand all of what's going on. Uh but I've been a principal in a building and I was in a principal in
039a building that had major sewer issues and I was always appreciative when I would see maintenance coming or someone coming with something to take care of my safety problems. Absolutely. So you know just saying there but you can see that we we have made some uh cuts there and you can see the total if we remove the 500 if we remove the 300 and the 250 and that will be reflected later on back here in a savings as well. It's just a inconvenient time I suppose for us to be tasked with the concept of increasing teacher salaries, giving by state mandate, giving $7,500 away in the event that all kids want to go to the voucher program uh in one of the highest inflationary periods that we just saw in the last 5 10 years.
040um just a lot going on and then we're asked to also have a a new create a new savings account that we don't profit from or reap the benefit of. So it's like okay we got maintenance of effort plus a recommendation that we have this in excess of 17% for reasons unknown. Um that's to our benefit as to how I'm not sure. Um, all I know is that we're talking about cutting teacher salaries at this point. Um, trying to figure out how we're going to continue to do the same business with less resources. Um, I don't I don't see that being fiscally responsible. But, um, if if if you're maintaining something that you don't own, then I guess your bud we've got we got our budget operations backwards is the way I see it. Well,
041the two big buckets are compensation, right, and capital projects. So, that's where the biggest savings are. I think everybody appreciates the fact that we're tightening up. And, you know, we're cutting where there's fluff if we don't need it. You know, we need to be efficient and effective with how we're using our resources. So, absolutely. And transparent and transparent. Um, we need to make sure safety, security, and education's at the top of the list for where our money's going. So, I think we've all agreed that we don't want to or cannot afford to cut in those areas that and have our kids going to buildings that don't have loans that are working and so forth. Um, but I do believe that this long road that's gotten us here is we've had to, at least in my
042understanding for the time I've been on the board, we've had to continuously tap in to our general fund and the extra funds that we have in order to do the capital projects and to do the maintenance. And now that we've gotten to the point where we have these stipulated mandated raises that have to be given, that's kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. We can't keep pulling because now that money is being used for the mandated raises. So we're at that breaking point. But those are the two buckets. So where do we look for in those buckets? And if we can't cut anything because it's safety, security, and education, then how does how do our partners help us with that? How can the county help with that? Um, so although we've got some
043cuts outlined here that could be helpful, I mean, we're looking at the max, just a little over half a million dollar and I get that. But again, Yep. Yeah. All of my thoughts that all of the cuts that I made were considered carefully. Yeah. Yep. Which they need to be. And there was some stuff that we had just put in there or was just wanting to put in there for one reason or another and um so have taken some of that back out. Um so so if we were to look at a version of this um and add it to that 4% that Scott was mentioning that we were building adding the extra fluff in. If that truly is what it is, then we're looking about 2 million, right? So, we're closing the half the
044the gap there. And if you just I mean, so you're going to have to, you know, tighten the belt obviously because you've got that cushion built in normally that you can fall back on. Well, you cut it in half. No, you I mean, you're basically looking at just making sure that you don't overspend. That's it. But then the rest of it would have to it would be basically in capital projects that would need to go over to the commission for consideration. Yeah. And the capital maintenance project. So flooring. Correct. Yeah. Because we were 30% right. I mean of of maintenance budget spent through 3/4 of the way through the Now it's going to get real tight cuz I just the project start roof. And then we're putting out to bid the two fire alarms. So
045you're talking right there probably about $2 million out of that line. It's going to hit real quick real fast. Those are things have to be done when there's no students. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's no doubt that there's some good planning done there. That's that wasn't a jab there. It's just um most likely same reason we didn't get the things done the years before in that same line item will fall into that same category. We won't be able to get a few things done because the timing of it and then obviously we'll be in the new fiscal year and um it's just going to roll over and be inevitable. So, there's some monies that'll be left unaccounted for um when it comes time to pay the bill that will be rolled over that we could potentially
046utilize as well. I think that's what we've probably shown. That's our track record. Um maybe the bids come in a little less like the roof. Well, the roof we save about $18,000, but I know that we'll have the roof cuz I have that in hand and then the fire alarms will go out next week. It'll be advertised. So, I know we'll have those three things that'll come out of this year. So, I know we didn't get to the maintenance page on this. So, those are some big chunks there. Can you can you cover that a little bit? There's half a million there on one line, but just just what your thoughts were on that. So, with the maintenance, you have um the first page that you have, and I'm not quite sure where you're at,
047but the first page, just let me go through this and kind of explain. The first page is what was presented to the county commission minus the tendance courts. And we did have it uh we did have the buses on there, you know, just if they wanted to to be kind and throw us a bone and buy four new additional buses, we we did have that on there. But I do want to clarify that that's not extra buses. That's not buses that we want. Those are buses that were required that would be in our rotation. Correct. Yes. But, you know, just if they wanted to be kind and purchase those four buses, we would gladly take those. And that falls under capital. Well, we had that in there. Yes. And it was on the main uh
048capital page. Yes. But they sit on the transportation page. Let's be clear. They're not on the maintenance page, right? Yeah. Different pages. But oh, as consideration, they would be considered as capital. That is something that is being depreciated. Not in this life. Okay. So then the next page is your maintenance rotation. Um again going back to my days as a principal if we can keep this this would be fabulous because you come to get used to that when your driveway gets bad and it needs to be repaved or your gym floor needs to be refinished. that that's that rotation there. And you see what the cost of all of those items are, the location, and what we are looking at doing. Which page are you on? I'm sorry. It's this page right here. Close to
049the back. It's the packet. Some of them have page numbers on them and some of them don't. Yeah, correct. My apologies. That's okay. That's okay. So, Mr. Van Winkle, I think what you're talking about is this general maintenance page. Yeah. This one that the capital. That's the capital that was presented to the courthouse. And then this is the general that y is that the one you had questions about? I was looking at the total page that we we were talking about and you had 500,000 in one column 300 and 250. So when we were looking at cuts, I asked Miss Bray, please just go in and make this amount of dollar cuts. And we did not. We've not had the time because this came about from last Thursday. So, we've had Friday and today um
050never mind the amount of time she spent working on this probably over the weekend, but um we've had those two days to work on it. So, I don't know where that $500,000 would cut from. I don't know where the $300,000 would cut from. I know those pages somewhere, but we weren't specific on that. Okay. I just dollar amounts. Okay. But the rotation plan traditionally is where it's 1.2 million, right? And that's traditionally where it's come from. Okay. And as the building floor, we don't do we don't repay the parking lot, you know, that kind of thing. They don't get their parking lot lights or instead of getting 75,000 in flooring, they get 50. Yeah. We could just cut that right now. Yeah. Yeah. Just cut that one. Cut it out. And then if we if
051we want to do that, then we can vote on it and ask to take it out of the fund balance. We can send it over one at a time. Whatever you folks prefer. I would prefer we had county taxes high enough to where uh we could afford to educate our students and not have to cut have conversations about reducing teacher salaries and are we going to do without every time we have a budget conversation? Well, reducing teacher salaries isn't an option under our mandate. Well, agreed, but we're we're flirting. The first proposal that we encountered today was talking about which of these four different Yeah. That's supervisory ones. Yeah. Well, it's I guess let me clarify pay, right? We're talking about what we can afford to pay. So, um instead of worrying about how well
052our taxes are, let's let's let's focus on how much uh our kids are going to actually improve in our area instead of how many retirees are going to move in. for free. That would be a key element if we're going to actually negotiate in our budget. Like, let's negotiate like how do we make a difference um for the better as opposed to continue to beat down the people that live here and and are trying to raise families here. What you're suggesting is a long-term plan for the county, which is definitely something that we need to work on. and maybe when they have these budget items back in their pocketbook, they'll have to make some decisions upon theel cuz we're nonrevenue generating as a school system. So we we don't need to be dealing with things
053that cost money that are that are non round numbers that aren't staying m statemandated, right? So we're we're trying to hit a moving target every time we're in a budget conversation, right? We're maximizing our classrooms and we have a director that has told us we need all of these positions, right? Yep. So, we we've got we we have to pay for that. So, we if we can't pay for that, how are we going to pay for buildings, too, right? I get where you're going with that. We've got about 17% left in our budget above what we're paying compensation, right? Our compensation packages. At least 17% for everything else. Yeah. which means that says maintenance which means all that goes in the fund balance now if we have to have 17% in the fund balance because
054approximately 83% of our budget is benefits for employees. Yeah, correct. Yeah. Yeah. The compensation packages. So basically what we're saying is we need to put everything over compensation packages into the fund balance and ask for it one at a time. That's and correct because if we can't afford it, we can't afford it. I mean, if we don't have if we don't have it, we don't have it. So, we don't need to be like there's non-negotiables like we can't do anything with all of these maintained buildings if there's not people and children in them to utilize the space. So, our primary focus as a body is to educate. So, let's focus on spending our money there. And what other bodies want to focus on keeping up with their property, allow them to do so. We just
055don't need We don't There's We're running a race. We can't we have to figure something out because these schools are going to fall apart and we're going to have to close them. And then what do we do with the kids that are in them? What do we do with the teachers that are in them? They have to be safe and secure. So, we get quotes on it. We vote, hey, we need to do this. And we send it over to the county commission to vote on taking it out of the fund balance. And if if they don't want to fix it, we have to shut it down. We'll have to shut it down. I mean, that that's that's where I'm leaning on this is let's let's pay for what we need to educate our children.
056And if the buildings need working on, we can vote if we can get prices. We can do what we've always done. Send it over. Vote on it. Send it over. Mhm. I mean, I just can't believe we've hardly had a fire alarm. That just floores me. Yeah. Just floors me. Wish I could have written a check. I would have done it. So, the last page in your packet here is the classified analysis. I was asked to prepare this. I know that on uh April 24th, you voted to give the classified less than 260 days a 10% raise. So, here is that amount with your taxes and and your retirement. If that was cut to a 6% you have your savings between the 10% and the 6%. If that was cut to a 3% you have
057your savings there. So I just I was asked to prepare that and I did. So that is your packet. And again I realize that everything that I have cut uh does appear to be kind of small uh but uh just trying to show that I truly am looking at every item on this budget. Uh now, Mr. Van Winkle, we will go back and look um between now and Thursday, right? And uh look at some additional cuts and some fluff and uh see what we can cut. I don't know if there's fluff in there or not. I'm basing that on previous years, right? So, we've been over the last two years, we've been over 15%. Well, I got I got the total down at the bottom for everything that we've been over. Okay. So we can
058definitely look at that. Um based on 14.9 in 22 23 and 14% last year. So we can definitely look at that. Um I think you've done due diligence in cutting here and there in order to try to come to the table with areas where we can do that. Well, any and like I said, I know some of it's pitly like um the student information person cutting them back down their 20 days. Uh I know that the principles had asked for 10 additional days for their secretaries. If I if we cut that down to five, that's meeting everybody in the middle. You know, that that's cutting five days, but then that's giving the principles five days that they don't have. So that to me, that's a meet in the middle. There's there's been some things added
059too that you you could that I I guess I could ask if you could look at. I don't know how much it'll save, but So, I know we added five additional days to uh assistant principles at the high school last year. Is that is that something that we could look at going back to 210? No, we've uh we've cut um one of the high school principles back to 220. That was at their request. Okay. Anybody else requesting that? Uh yeah, I have a few here and there that would request to go back to 220. Well, how much would that help with the ones that want to do that? And is it is it feasible to do that? Can you can you get the work done, I guess, is the next question. In all honesty, that
060is a huge concern that I have of anybody in this office that wants to go back to 220. Yeah, that that's a concern I have. Okay. Yep. Just a just a thought. And then um I know that our student count is down at the high schools quite a bit. Do we still have the need for three assistant principles at each high school? I know we're under a thousand students. Correct. So, is that something that you could look at and see how much that would save? Well, can't we send a couple of them to the other schools that are hurting? Exactly. Home. Exactly. That's what I was getting at. So, I know we've got that in the budget to add to add those instead of adding home desperate. Just reallocate. Just reallocate staff. Yeah. Mhm. I
061mean, any any business unit looks at what you put on page one and try to figure out where you can consolidate. Um, right. If you if you look at what if we were to map this out by dollars spent per pupil per building, I would say it's pretty glaring at a couple of the area Phoenix with 12 teachers. Correct. Mhm. That now mind you, that's classroom teacher. you know, content and then Pine View with 10. Mhm. So, in what way could we potentially consolidate efforts? I know we we've talked about middle schools, right? We're in the process of next steps essentially with how these middle schools can help alleviate pressure, consolidate. I mean, that's that's being good stewards of money. Um that would be there would I would imagine there could be some consolidation done
062with those lowh hanging um I guess there's just not a lot of there's just not a lot of participation the goal with Phoenix should be right and I I'll paraphrase this I mean if we're going to be rehabilitative that that school shouldn't continue to grow in size right like if we're if we're as a community helpful that school should shrink. It's not the alternative school, right? Not the alternative. It It is indeed the alternative school and Phoenix High School. And it's a it's a lot it's a lot of things campus. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's it's a lot of things. I'm just saying like if we were if things were better in a perfect world, right, we wouldn't have Yeah. If we could fix our parenting, that may way down. A lot of factors, right?
063A lot of factors. Way down. And and look, maybe that's a long shot, but um you know, however we can we can figure ways to do so, right? That's being good stewards of taxpayers dollars. Um and then also with the education piece of mind, but um how far away are we from that? I mean in in our I mean I mean looking at our budget, I guess that's the question like how do we put a dollar figure on I know we we answered questions based on you know survey questions. Do we believe that this would be the correct footprint that if we consolidate or we con do we construct dollar figure- wise? Right, we got to send that out to somebody other than ourselves to come up with some feasibility that's that's got some dollar
064bills attached to which of those two projects. So, our at our work session last week, we talked about when we get close to bringing the new DOS on um moving forward with an internal group that's going to put some figures and numbers together and then moving forward with putting a stakeholder committee together. Sure. That would make some decisions. Um getting past budget and getting past hiring the new DOS and then getting rolling on that. I get I get just this obviously we're at a crunch, right? We're at a we already feel the crunch of the math right now. So, um maybe that could be some good ammunition for going into that next budget phase that we've got a plan to save some save some dollars by consolidating efforts, possible future redistricting and some changes regarding
065resources. Yeah. Mhm. And I know we got a huge county. Yeah. But that's something forthcoming that the commission can be aware of as far as our plan that we're working on. They're going to have to be on that too. Part of the stakeholders. Yep. Question. How come Phoenix doesn't have a kitchen? Is it because it's not logistically okay. They don't have room for it. They just like transferring food across the street. built when they built it, it wasn't I don't think it was built to to accommodate the classroom to make the cafeteria as it does now. So, right. So, that's why that was not built. It was the food was supposed to come from Kland County High School because it was so close. So, we've kind of gotten away from that. They did have an
066area that they have turned into a um to a lunchroom, but they use the kitchen that's in the basement here and they transport the food over there. There's some food prep that they can do there, but I'm not quite sure exactly what Okay, standards. We do meet those standards and do well on the inspection still wherever we are. I'm just curious why I never had a kitchen back on the if I if I can absolutely ask a good question. So, back on the budget, uh, as far as the salary scale goes that you talked about, um, the one that I sent, Miss Bray, that was, I think, 1.1 million by not doing the 1713 and doing the the salary changes. Yeah, we're looking at tightening up. Yes. Right. the gaps and the steps in that
067because we know we have to hit the starting salary and we know we have to hit it what year 1, year six, year that we have to do on up the line, but I know we were looking at kind of tightening those areas up on that scale 1.1 million. Uhhuh. So, and I don't I don't know if we have to visit theou for that or not. I know we do for the insurance, but we we may not have to visit it for the salary scale. Did y'all not Tim said well and that's just a matter of a meeting for them which can easily occur. But I mean that that's going to correct some things that need to be corrected and save money. So it might be something that we need to go to the table
068on if we can do that between now and and the Please don't say Thursday. No commission the commission meeting. The commission meeting. Yeah. Between now and the commission meeting. Okay. I mean, that's that's a huge chunk that could and you know, so we have and I can get with Miss Timson. So, just just throwing it out here. I don't think that we're going to have anything that we're going to be ready to vote on tonight. Okay. So, um we have another um budget meeting scheduled for 27th. The 27th. So, you want us to meet between then? [Music] Well, I think before getting with Miss Timson, I think we need to see what that would look like and is that even a road that would be worth traveling down. The one she had and the one
069I sent her were both I think hers was like a a little less savings than the one I had, but it so I don't know if you remember exactly, but the proposal was to um balance per lean frog balance the pay scale, right? And then I looked at that separately from her and I brought it brought it in along with hers column by column. But we were trying to bring those closer together. Mhm. And uh and I'm sure that everyone here has received those, but if we have those, we could send those back out and you could have A and B and you could look at it and that may be something we could add to the agenda for Thursday for you all to look at and get your approval before we meet with uh
070CCA. Are you all good with that? Miss Nichols, you good? Yes. I do have one suggestion. We can't really talk Let's don't talk about insurance till we know actually what is going All this is all we're talking about is salary scale. Salary scale only. Correct. I don't have that information. Salary skill only understand. Mr. Davis, are you good with us doing that one more time? Okay. Sending you the two different proposed salary scales that has it more equalized. Sending that to you by tomorrow, letting you look over it by the meeting for Thursday. Maybe getting that added to the agenda so you can look at it before we go and go back to the table with the uh union. Perfect. So if I remember correctly, that puts that align us more with where we want
071to go forward with the scale as well, right? What we're trying to achieve long term. Yeah. It balances the scale or or starts leaning towards a balanced scale. Yeah. And you can you can and decrease pay. It's going to take steps again because it was a lot of decisions over the years that led us to that point. So we're going have to do it in baby steps. Take about four years. Okay. So, um I think my next steps are to look at these things that we've discussed, which is look to cut to 4%. Uh look, uh at the five additional days uh for the high school uh APS, look at cutting an AP at each high school, look at the salary scale, get that emailed out to you, add that to the agenda. uh then
072get with the union and have a meeting before the 27th which is when we come back to meet again. Okay. And um just as a little caveat to the looking at the need for the third VP at the high schools, that wouldn't be necessarily cutting, but it would be reallocating, right? So if there's no longer a need for the third one at the high school, we'd be reallocating it to another school in the system for the positions we added into the budget for this year. There's a need. Well, what and and I started to say when you talk to a principal and you say we're looking at pull pulling an a at an AP and moving them some re reallocating them, they're going to say you're cutting one of my APS. Bottom line, I guess
073when you're looking at need and just cutting districtwide, it's it's beyond the budget wise, we're moving from it's reallocating a resource. Yeah, it's reallocating a resource based on where the need is. That's another one of those I think that was added with a grant because we had so many students and then we decided to keep it. Okay. And now we don't have we have fewer students. Mr. King said be and not to say that none of this is relevant but we're we we're still if we're going to make one line item and I don't know if it's popular. I don't really care. Um, if we're going to make a difference in the category that they're asking us to make a difference is, it involves six zeros. Yeah. Two commas. Yeah. And a digit greater than
074five. So talking about moving person from A to school B or 60,000 or 100,000. Yeah. Doesn't even matter. So legitimately going to do what we're asked to do. It's going to involve removing capital projects. Yeah. or it's going to involve removing money. Well, those are the big bucket things, but also in good faith, we need to be tightening up. I mean, the salary scale like 1.1 million. We could spend $100 to save five nickels or we can just save what we we can just re repurpose the intent of the the goal. Like, I don't know why we're trying to hang on to a budget that we clearly can't maintain, right? I mean, that's all I'm just exclusive to the school system. That's just period. like whatever you're doing with mask, you can't afford it, you
075can't afford it. We're way off. Yeah. And if if somebody wants to be responsible for it, then they can be responsible for it. I think we have to have school, we have a bill, I hope we do. Hey, exactly. Agree with you. Yeah. Me, too. Yeah. We just can't control can't control those things. I mean, And a lot of the stuff we're looking at, we're just looking at I don't want everybody freaking out in the wild. Back the county, whatever. We're just trying to figure out where we can for the record. I want I want to be the most I want to have the highest number of graduates with the best test scores with the lowest class sizes with the highest paid teachers. Yeah. Perfect. And then every and then whatever whatever the best talent
076with the best talent leading us that direction. Yeah. And if we can't um if that's if that's the only things that we can affect then then that's the only things we need to be focused on and we can go to the we can go to the wish list and ask for things that we need and that body can make the decision and they can answer for it. For 100 years, there's been some kind of an offense between this body and the body of the county commission. And I think it's going to take a lot of baby steps. But we all need to sit down at the table. We all need to sit down and we need to talk about exactly who's up there because like you said, we don't make anything. We don't sell anything.
077We pay for what we've got. If it is Cumberland County Schools, then it's all of us as stakeholders maintaining this. But the fact that somehow it became the board of ed's job to take care of 12 schools and maintain them, I just and then pay all these teachers and do everything that we're supposed to be doing. That's a huge weight. It's a huge responsibility and we just don't have the money to do and then we have a salary increase that we have to do. being. Then we've got this to do and then we got this to do and and we have people walking around a guy gone building because the fire alarm's not working. I mean, this is just not acceptable. Our kids should go to a school with clean bathrooms and nice looking bathrooms.
078Yes, they're rotten. They put litter on the ground and write on walls and all those things that kids do, but they should still have nice schools. But if we can't provide that, I mean, yes, the education is number one, but they shouldn't go to school looking like they're in the hood. So, please don't take it off of anyone. Am I right? I mean, the BP formula actually had capital money in it and the TISA formula does not. Yeah. So, I think that's part of the issue that's happening to us now. I was trying to find the legislation that went through this year. Did they fi did does any have you heard um what the final answer was on that legislation that was going through that was what $25 per student for building and ground. Hey,
079what happened to that? Cuz last I saw it went on to the finance and then I didn't see beyond that. If you haven't heard that's probably not a good sign. I was hoping maybe we get some money coming in that way but doesn't that would be a huge concern if we don't know. Probably not going to happen. Yeah. So, okay. So, I have we have our homework. We will get this taken care of and um I guess we'll just come back Thursday and do this again. Same time. Thursday is the full meeting though, right? Thursday is the full meeting at So, are you going to add an agenda item on so we can cover these things? Okay. Mhm. I got it in here. Ok. Okay. Anybody have anything else? Questions from the media? Apologies. I
080got here a little late. Um, this is I came in for the special call meeting. Has that already happened or is this No, it has. That was if we had something if we had something to vote on. We're still talking. If we don't, that will be cancelled. This was still the work session. Yep. I do have two questions if we're going to just while we're in the budget piece. I I misunderstood that as well. I apologize. Um in our capital projects line, I noticed that we we had voted earlier in the year to discuss um the field renovation at Stone Memorial High School. So that that was in the email you got today. Um, so I said in that email that you received this morning, the bid openings uh for Brown roof came in last
081Tuesday. Um, that has been awarded and we are currently looking at the legalities of the stone bid that was open Thursday, but we're we've ran into some stuff and we're having to look at that uh the legality side of that. So before we can discuss that in a public meeting, we'll have to get some stuff cleared up. How long do you anticipate that conversation? Um well uh we were made aware of this last Friday after the bid was opened on Thursday and we have already shared that concern and I think it's already gone to legal counsel. So I'm hoping by Thursday uh at the meeting we will have a answer and we can share the information. Then is that a conversation we can have? Is it you talking about Mr. McCarti our legal? No, this
082is legal with finance county finance. Yeah, she can't discuss it. Okay. So, so we have a we have a bid. Okay. So, I guess my big question is is I understand the urgency of this and getting it ready to go and I promise as soon because I know it is 81 days until they play their first game on it. I will do everything in my power to get it. But we still once the bids are awarded, we still have to go through county finance for them to approve us to accept the bid. But I promise as quick as that happens, I'll I'll try to get it. No, I understand. I just we this this topic was last November. No disrespect to you what whatsoever. I'm just saying like this this topic la last August was
083a topic like the issue was in August. We identified it, we hit it and we did zero with it and then when we brought it up um we collectively voted that we were going to take that to bid to get back within the time frame to get that back within the time frame and for whatever reason we missed that time frame. We've never held anybody including ourselves accountable for that. So I'm not sure as exactly why that's acceptable as a board or an organization. We we I guess I'm a little bit confused because Miss Bray, you've given us an update on some of the things that have been done out there on the field. So there's been work undergoing. So I'm not quite we asked for I'm not quite understanding, but there's been repair work
084that's been being done. That's all good, but that's not what we asked for. So I guess I'm just a little confused on what it was that we we voted to get a bid on it. And I think Kim Chamberlain came in and gave us a budgetary quote, but we never had a bid on actually fixing the field. But and that's what I'm that's what I'm asking cuz I see the track piece is here and the tennis courts are here, but the football field piece is not here. So, at what point did we decide that that was the only thing of the entire project that we weren't going to work on? Well, we put the field out to bid to have the sod replaced. We've taken care of the drainage and we've done some of that,
085but we were going to get that cuz that was something that could be done quickly before the school year was up. But I do have two bids in hand. Yeah, we had two biders and that was all we had. And I have those in hand and that's for sod that's that's to repair the field. That's to repair the field. We did vote when we sent the budget over. I I made a motion to add the field into that and it failed. It failed. But I think in the meantime, we've had a fix, a different fix other than going all out to do what Mr. Van Winkle said. So that's what we currently have the bids on. Okay. Okay. So it was my understanding that it was in process based on the updates we've been getting.
086So it would be ready for the football practice and and play. I have two in hand. Gotcha. Okay. So there and and then what about the athletic director position? Well, currently to that page on the budget, it would add um $110,000. Okay. So it is indeed on the current submission. it it says on that bottom of that page that if the uh the athletic director is added that would be an additional $110,000. Hang on, I can tell you what page that's on. We voted on that budget. It it was an if an add-on statement. Yeah. Right. It was not included in the budget. No. Okay. All right. And we talked about that when we talked about the adding of positions. I thought it was on the budget, but Imm Okay. I'm trying to balance everything
087else. Okay, that's going to be on page nine and it is uh on the line that says uh total student body education and it says to add full-time AD would be an additional $110,000 and already on that page it is $752,84 that's budgeted for next year. Yeah. And that's that's without that position. Correct. Correct. All right. That's all I have. Anyone else? Okay. Any more questions from the media? And you wore us out. With that we'll be ajourned.