001good afternoon thank you for joining us for joint committee on education and committee on higher education this is Wednesday March 27th we are in room 229 and the first on the agenda is scr 144 and sr17 73 urging the Department of Education University of Hawaii community colleges and Hawaii P20 Partnerships for education to develop clear Pathways for students in Department of Education Career and Technical educationmy to seamlessly continue their education in Career and Technical education programs at University of Hawaii community colleges oh I'm supposed to read this first sorry welcome to the Senate committee on education higher education today is Wednesday March 2 I say that 2024 this is our 3:00 p.m. agenda and we are in hearing room 229 this Zoom meeting and YouTube live stream event will include a 3:00 p pm. agenda
002for the joint committees on education and higher education in the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to Major technical difficulties the Committees will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Monday April 1 2024 at 3: p.m. this conference room 229 and a public notice will be posted on the legislator's website okay first on the agenda is SC 144 sr1 173 um do we have anyone here to testify on this measure Angela um good afternoon education and higher education committee Angela Melody young testifying on behalf of cares so the Hawaii P20 um produces a College and Career Readiness indicator report called the CC to provide research and data on Readiness outcomes which shows how well high schoolers meet doe vision of a Hawaii public school graduate um the Hawaii P20 strengthens the
003education pipeline from Early Childhood through college and provides training with data informed decision-making advocacy policy coordination and shared action so the work is focused on high expectations and Equitable access for all students to thrive in school and then in a career and Beyond an into life so we know um I think the goal um is to produce students that are skilled at what they do right and with p20s College and Career Readiness report critical Career and Technical skills can be developed to get higher skill higher wage careers and so I just want to refer to be it resolved page 2 line 33 it says backwards mapping of Pathways I think the more appropriate technical terminology that the resolution is trying to say is develop Pathways from college to Career by training equipping empowering youths to
004elevate their skills in their studies with accessibility to programs resources classes appren ships and trainings so just a technical thing thank you also to testify Julie chairs Vice chairs Kim and members of committee Terry usima testifying on behalf of the Department of Education in support with our um as our we're in support and we provided some thank thank you for University of Havi I'm not going to be un2 okay um they're in support I think testify was supposed to be Erica um they have you down as P20 testifying okay good afternoon members of the committee I'm Stephen Shotz up the executive director of white 220 Partnerships for education we stand on our written testimony and support thank you anyone else here wishing to testifying this measure if not moving on for questions oh questions yeah
005so you guys don't really need this resolution right couldn't you guys be doing this already we are um a lot of what is written in the resolution is work that is already underway okay so and when do we expect to get um we're happy to report on our progress along the way um right now we've um we're probably about 30% of the way through the pathways and we have made it a priority and put some resources towards um continuing to map uh the rest of the pathways so when do you anticipate being completely um ambitiously about a year from now and then maybe about halfway through you can give us a report happy to appreciate that thank you further questions thank you if not moving on to the next item scr 98 requesting the Department
006of Education to partner with the Hawaii state Teachers Association and teacher education programs at local universities and colleges to provide Pathways for schools support Personnel to become full-time teachers to testify Department of Education good afternoon chairs members of committee Sean Ry director of personal development testifying on behalf of the department uh Department stands on its written testimony and support of this me thank you Erica backro for uh in support and Steven shots no I think that was the one before on [Music] bottom oh I'm sorry on the wrong Osa Tui hi committee Le Mo speaking on behalf of O hly supports this resolution we are happy to be part Partners in this endeavor and it's best to grow our own recruit and grow our own and have them St white thank you thank you Le
007and also submitting written testimony was uh superintendent Hayashi in support anyone else here wishing to testify this vure not members questions that's all we have for this agenda um ver so what positions would be considered School support Personnel what positions would be considered School support per oh that would be like our EA and our long-term Subs they're already working in the school they they work with the students one of the biggest barrier is financing and that giving them the ability to continue working and still earn the credits and learn how to be certified would be excellent we we have so many of them that are so good with the students but they truly don't have the finances to to stop working and and take classes they are living paycheck to paycheck but if we can
008get them this training and be certified that would build their financial ability you know they would make more money and I have so many EAS that are really good and when I asked them to do it they say they don't have the money they they even though their pay is small they need it to keep their housing further questions members thank you um yeah you know what let me ask the so you guys can do this already right yes we we have been working on this already and it is in the Department's uh strategic plan implementation plan and so when do you folks start to implement it uh it's an action item for next school year 2425 so this resolution is perun to in the sense that you're already doing it so okay okay thank
009you thank you okay further questions members that's the end of this agenda pass this yeah Vice chair for the go you have the sheets I have my sheets your I'm taking it okay for the vot for SC 144 and sr17 recommendation recommendation is to passr 144 and Sr 173 okay recommendation for education is to pass strr 144 and Sr 173 uh unamended chair vot I yes chair V Vice chair of I Senator hoto I Senator Richard's excuse Senator FLL I four members voting I one excuse recommendations adopted same recommendation for committee on higher education pass strr 144 and Sr 173 with unamended chair votes I thank you uh Vice chair kidani I I vote I Senator Hashimoto I Senator plla I your recommendation is adopted thank you that concludes this agenda oh no we have
010one more it's sorry 98 oh I'm sorry okay so for SC 98 the recommendation is to pass pass with amendments to make some technical and non-substantive amendments chair vs up okay passing scr 98 with amendments chair vot any member on the education committee voting with reservations any member oppose if not four members present recommendations adopted same recommendation for the higher education committee pass Sr 998 with amendments thank you Vice chair kid I vote I Senator Hashimoto I Senator fella your recommendation is adopted okay that concludes this agenda good afternoon welcome to the Joint Committee on education and committee on agriculture and environment to hear one agenda item scr 78 and sr65 using urging the Department of Education to require all public schools and charter schools that serve meals to offer plant-based meal options prioritizing ingredients
011from locally sourced and locally farmed products we have a list of testifiers so strr 78 and sr65 are companions so the Committees will hear one round of testimonies for both agenda items and take the vote as one decision making and to testify doe please Jer kidani uh chair gab and committee members interam um what AM my assistant superintendent Audrey sorry it's been a long there sorry I know I'm the person sitting down though everybody was standing up I was going to stand up but I thought I'd sit down and face you folks anyway you have to talk about par in scho I'll call you later you have our written testimony we'll be here for um comments or questions thank you thank you Lorraine sakaguchi hi I'm Lorraine sakaguchi I'm uh president of the vegan Society
012of Hawaii which is an all volunteer nonprofit educational group uh our organization has been very active since 1990 here in Hawaii uh we're on multiple islands and we've been continuing our plant-based educational Mission uh to help human health animal rights and the protection of the environment uh I've already written about why uh it's so valuable uh for our K to have this plant-based option but I wanted to just mention that it's also a very practical option um uh to be able to do and is being done in many schools now across the US possibly the most wellknown being that New York City now has uh at school's children uh have a nutritious plant-based lunch every Friday as their main meal and uh we would be really happy to work with the Department of Education Food
013Services if they're interested to help develop practical uh delicious and nutritious plantbased choices for our KY and U and we would love to have them have many local choices as that we can help with um and that's all thank you thank you Angela Melody young [Music] hello um Angela Melody Young on behalf of cares so um it is healthy to serve meals which prioritize Plant Nutrition and products locally stores from vendors and locally farmed products so this res solution will help to enhance um the um Farm businesses um that are focus in producing um farm products and at the same time it will provide nutrition to the students um because locally grown from products um are healthier um and so we should be more proactive and goal oriented with Solutions such as this so you
014know this solution kills two birds with one stone farmers get um produce that's sourced from the farms and this provides for the agriculture sector and the business Economic Development sector is also provided for because the farmers then get a market um within the schools to serve their meals at and um so that's why we see capani Community College with farmers markets right to raise awareness about the business resources to equip the community with with the skills to create opportunity and this can also potentially enhance agrotourism if farmers and their Farms become culturally focused on providing um like tours about the farm process and nutrition for the community yeah so thank you thank you we have a Nicole galassi on Zoom thank you chair kadan and gabard vice chairs Kim and members of the committee Nicole
015gas on behalf of the Hawaii catman's Council the Hawaii catman's Council respectfully opposes this measure while we're still smoothing out the process for sourcing local food for school lunches adding the requirement that plant-based meals are offered makes this much more difficult especially when Hawaii's beef industry was one of the first Industries to reliably Supply that beef to the school system this planning takes years and to discourage people from eating beef and allude that it is unhealthy would be a detriment to Ho poolo you have Our Testimony with more specific information and I hope we can look to ranchers as allies Mahalo thank you Nicole is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure members questions got to come No No No No's he's smarter than me Senator no comment introduce yourself sir good
016afternoon Senator Cher kidani uh chair gabard Vice chair Kim members of the committee Weston Yap the new Farm to school coordinator for the Department of Education qu the question is that if the department asked the farms and the vendors if they have Supply handfuls of school of each month like a schedule you they scheduling you guys look into this plan B schedule of menus like no not menus but just the product itself because it's not that it's not it's not that easy to get a hold of the plantbased products right I mean yeah right and um you know just you know going into that I just you reason why it's hard for me to um grasp this and I understand there's a lot of support for it but then I understand we want to train
017the kids to eat healthy and all that great stuff but uh if they don't eat this at home and then we're going to try and make one day out the week to eat this plant-based product they're really going hungry as it is during the school day and not eating one healthy lunch or the whole lunch and that's going to be one day that I saying the whole day breakfast lunch or um um the main mu but it's just having this option is great but the reality of it all can we have it sufficient enough it's actually going to be beneficiary for our students um it Senator it should be beneficiary but um with all the findings that we have um lots of um the Hawaii farms and um vendors are not prepared to provide um
018the local U plant-based meals and meet as of right now if they if they Gear Up and um and we have to do our standards too so maybe down the road things but I understand your point about if they don't eat it at home you know how they going to eat it in school okay well that comes up to the next year so did you guys send out a survey to the kids who would want to eat plant-based foods and you know just to see what what would be the the result of that um May I address the the first part about the the items briefly okay so I feel Department of Education has made progress in the areas of uh local leafy greens um local orange fruits and vegetables have high and beta carotene
019your your Pala ey carrots um you making progress in terms of local starches uh trying to get working on ULU and and sweet potato OA on the menu we have a uala farmer in the committee the area that we're trying to figure out to make this uh resolution uh achievable is plant-based proteins and so um in preparation for this hearing today was kind of looking online to see what local farmers in terms of plant-based proteins because uh uh something that can take the place of ground beef um or or other other meats is uh where we feel we we need some some work in our agriculture community and so craps like soybean uh uh pigeon pea and other legumes and beans uh to try and make up for that that beef content or that protein
020content is is what we're kind of studying but the survey he's asking about the survey oh sorry I got off track the survey of schools we have not done a survey of specific schools in terms of interest in uh plant-based meals I would like to check with our dietician um to see if there's been something less for noral where that same kind of data may have come back so just a follow up so with that being said and what been happening in the Square building um on the form to table and and all of the stuff that we're trying to do in having a centralized kitchen to minimize the opening of the can and throw them in a pan and call it a meal um going forward you think this is going to be compatible
021or you guys going to be be able to have that but we start pushing more to form to food to having more beef more more more everything else in the sense of something similar to what Senator de Cruz always say that like what zippies is doing now in the stores they have the packets already stew and whatever and open them up and it's a meal I just like know how is this going to be compatible to to um what we're trying to accomplish when it comes to form to table because I never heard um that was looking into the plant-base um for protein thank you chair you have answer okay so that centralized kitchen Vision um is beneficial if there's uh some time that could be used as was said before about planning how to
022gear up how to work with the farmers to increase their own productivity uh because the the raw material in terms of the crops is what we're short on um the good thing right now is this this bill is kind of putting the call out there that we need our local farmers to look at some of these more protein based crops uh which can then be taken and formulated into uh a product uh that can be served in the schools that is easy for the our school F service staff to prepare um the thing about this resolution that makes me nervous is just it's asking for that action now and uh we're tasked with trying to achieve more purchase of local ingredients that 30% and by um causing us to include plant-based products now without having
023the build to purchase locally it will make us increase our Imports in the short term sorry does I answer the question yes Senator so I think um long story made short um when we figure out and have a partnership with the farmers and that can produce what they need to same thing like zippies will probably put it in the plastic bag and and send it out to the various schools so whatever we all agree on that is plant-based and if the materials ingredients are there we would have to incorporate it in our Central Kitchen thank you Kim um based on your testimony you're saying that you folks already offer a vegetarian lunch entry entree uh at least once a week yes and how is that being um accepted by the students I I don't know
024I mean I'm sorry I'm not in the school do we know if it's accepted by the students I'd like to ask for the opportunity to gather some data and some testimonials through our our nutrition website and uh bring that back if that's I was not prepared with that sorry we already know that they throw away a lot of I mean the federal government already requires certain things on the men and we know that the students are throwing away a lot food and we've had this conversation we've had this um hearing on other measures that shows that if you just look in the garbage can you can see what they're throwing away they're not drinking their milk they're leaving it on the table the apples the oranges are being thrown out and then you see students
025going over to fast foods and who can't afford to buy school lunch but can certainly go to fast food mcdonals or whatever and buy food as alternative is what they're doing those I guess who has the money to do it so it would behoove you not to and and we've asked this why aren't we surveying the kids in school why do we have to go to a website why do we have to go to a survey and and the 62,000 a year for this web page or whatever it is you folks are using 86,000 or 87,000 for the initial initial um uh software when each class after lunch they can ask the students on a little paper that's true you know what did you want about this meal did you eat it you know what
026would you like us to serve and certainly we want it to be healthy but if they're throwing it away then I mean it that's crazy right we're spending the time to fix it to buy the stuff and they're throwing it away and they're not eating it so they're not getting nutrition they're not getting meal that's one two because the federal government have certain nutrition requirements how are you going to determine whether the um this um plantbased meal option will meet their requirements we will meet their requirements right we we have to because we get their reim how do you how do you then because not only do you have to get the plants and and whatever it is that they're going to but then you have to somehow measure it correct or whatever to determine
027whether or not it meets the federal requirements right so our I believe our nutrition should know this and they know how to calculate Lindsay yeah cuz she's a nutrition and then if I can comment on your earlier question um we've constantly heard Senator FLL said they throw away lunch and stuff like that but you're right in your question because we don't know if they're throwing away the vegan lunches and maybe we can survey couple of schools to just to see on the vegan lunches if they eat it or throw it away but interesting too because one of the previous speakers I mean they want to promote vegan you know vegetarian lunches so how do we how do we identify the children you know you're you're McDonald's you're vegan you're vegetar oh no I'm just okay
028you're McDonald's but don't you folks don't your folks Sur don't you guys survey your students in the beginning like um do you have any any kind of restrictions in your diet how many vegetarians how you know you know because I know whenever we go to any kind of function they always ask do you have any you know any kind of restrictions and then they they always have a vegetarian correct plate available for those who choose to have it so wouldn't doe want to know in advance so we can tell whether or not we're we're not meeting the requirements of a large percentage of students or is it just a very small minute percentage of students I mean there's no way of knowing unless you do some kind of survey or question or yeah that's a
029and you have to don't have to do it on a web page you just do it in school now that's a good idea and a good question and then we'll work with our uh director Audrey can you um I guess my question is the school Lun service is it the food is laid out and the students take what they want or it's served to them Sen I don't know and because of that question I'm going to have to go to a school to might know huh you do you know oh okay speak up please the way that menus currently work is you'll have a set menu and some of the items will be just um served and then some items are held as offer I was at of breakfast in k um and most of
030the the breakfast uh it was it was a parfait yogurt fruit on top that was the one that was served and then they have uh bananas or apples the kid can the child can choose to take or not to take and so lunch it's kind of that that separation of items as well chair that that's for breakfast lunch you cannot choose they make the whole plate hot cold juice milk vegetables apples everything is on one plate he cannot tell them I'm not going to take the milk or I only going to take the Juice by law we got to give the kids everything on the plate and what they do grab the milk that's it everything else in a rubbish can and if anybody let go visit when school let me know I'll take you
031to Campell yeah we go they dump in the food but why aren't you guys doing that anyway you supposed to be doing that doing what going to the schools and sing every single P okay W no but it was like that when we were going to school too no we had burritos and T tots maybe you guys did but not when I school but I'm saying that the students still threw away their their lunches the milk I think um those things that were not served you like milk or whatever they could put back some place right yeah but back then the federal government didn't require I do have a question when you have an opportunity Senator so I guess um maybe things have changed since I'm getting old and things have changed but I don't
032remember having a choice at all you just they gave you and for me I I've been a vegetarian my whole life my parents were both vegetarians doesn't seem to have stunted my growth too much and part of it is that uh and part of it a lot of a lot about food in in my observation is that you you like what you're used to so I don't know I mean you know we're depending on the age if we're talking about high school students and okay at some point you get to decide what you want to eat but the younger ones um I don't really it's healthier to eat vegetarian it's better for the climate and I think we need to take that into consideration as we make policy and you can make plenty of vegetarian
033food that tastes good and fulfills your nutritional requirement so I I guess I'm just feels like we're giving more choices to people than at least we had 50 years ago I don't know so Senator I'm older than you and we're so poor we ate everything on our plate every speack of rice on our plate yeah that too yeah I'm sorry go ahead W okay thank you just in terms of an attempt to do a survey and gather more information as well as trying to encourage the the students to eat certain things come May of this year we're going to do an offering of poi to about 30 schools that opted to participate but we have found from our experience last year that if we just serve poy without preparing the students for its cultural history
034its taste its flavor its nutrition um things get thrown away so what we're doing this year is we're working with the Hai Farm to school network organizations on each island who already have entrance into a lot of the classrooms and uh relationships with a lot of the teachers and principles to try and gear up the students for what is po what is KO uh what's the cultural history what's the flavor um why is some sweet sometimes it's sour in hopes that the students will be more um welcoming of eating it and survey after to um observe how many uh e the poy how much is lost and if the education in the classroom was effective thank you so so you know when you talk about po the cost of PO is really expensive so I
035I how you going are you just going to put it in on school that you know already have a hard time eating Po and then you know you got to factoring cost right cuz you're going to have to buy the PO and already PO is scarce so how do you guys look at doing that within the study and then cost wise because I want you to think about this there's going to be a lot of waste you know if you put them in school especially with non Hawaiians and they they've um grown a custom and PO is healthy where does that fit in the cost of that and then for most of our schools especially like your my areas that are underserved or socially disadvantaged under the free meal as we see the family struggling
036you know and most of them have grown accustom I can say even as as a native Hawaiian individual the dietary has included everything from pork fish you know and that type um I go to my school and that's all I see is waste in there the only happy person walking out of animal is the pig that I will to eat later you know so you know how do you in turn I I really like know how you guys going to gauge that especially now you're talking about putting POI which I would love to see POI the cost of poi today and then to grow it you even figure out how much water it takes to grow po where is dry land po um every commodity is at a at a low right now so I
037would say whatever is being grown to use that and to diversify what you have to offset Imports but I don't see that in cost of that do you know to answer or can we get back to her I I'm prepared with okay so last year when we did a PO service it was provided by a company named pom kulo it was only for a selection of aahu schools that there was a survey that went out and they opted in the school food food service manager opted in based on his or her confidence that the kids eat uh we've done something very similar this year trying to focus on neighbor Island schools just because they didn't get to participate last year um same thing those School Food Service managers that felt their kids would um not
038waste much and enjoy it uh were about the 30 schools are opted in out of the 257 so it's a small section uh and uh so so every school I'm sorry every island except Wahu and we kind of did the math if if pomai Kul last year was able to offer a 4 oz cup at a cost of between um a15 and A110 I don't want to give away their secret sauce but it was it was just above a dollar um they were able to accomplish that uh we know things are more expensive this year you know inflation on materials and it's probably going to be higher than that I don't know the exact number yet because we're waiting for bids to come in right now but um uh so two things one we're hoping
039to keep the cost uh we do have that that threshold for small purchases of $25,000 less than so that's going to limit how many schools but again because it's such a small number we think will'll be under that and hopefully the cost will be something reasonable enough uh where where more schools next year can participate so so with that being said would Point qualify under the federal USDA guidelines as a dietary um uh food on there for the free meal yes USDA did a study onlo currently qualifies as both a vegetable and as a a starch okay thank you questions some the Gap as the U State's largest restaurant as I'm sure you guys have heard that term and what you were saying EP earlier about the farmers growing having once they find out that
040soybeans can come up with protein based alternatives there's going to be a hell of a lot of soybeans grown here in our state but that's and that's part of the whole education thing and then once the students start eating those plant-based protein made from Hawaiian soybeans they're going to say hey W tastes just like hamburger or whatever right so I think that this is a it's a good start I also had a question for uh Nicole Gass from the catman's she still on Nicole helloa hi senator gabard yeah I had a question I was a little confused by your testimony you were saying that and I quote we believe that individuals should have the freedom to choose their diet based on their specific needs and values and then you said a little bit later on
041in the next sentence requiring all schools to serve plant-based meals is not necessary so I was wondering if you had a misunderstanding of the the reso because all the reso is saying offering plant-based meal options it's not forcing anything down people thr and you're saying here you believe in Freedom of to choose but then you're saying the school shouldn't have it's it's unnecessary to have plant-based meals so can you clear that up sure I can thanks for asking that I think that what I meant is that the the schools can offer these plant-based items but making at a requirement right now when we're still trying to figure out the local purchasing and really make sure that but purchasing local is the goal we're still trying to figure that out and trying to get those Kinks
042worked out and I think that adding in the requirement to provide that plant-based meal I think that needs to come at a later point when we figure out the local purchasing first and right now the beef industry is readily poised and has already been providing this beef and I think the discouragement um to to not eat beef and kind of alluding that it is unhealthy um I think that's going to be a detriment to the cattle industry um you said it yourself it's the biggest restaurant and the Hawai cattle industry being able to provide that beef to the biggest restaurant really Mak sure that they can stay in working order they can continue their businesses they can continue the land Ste that they're doing while they're providing that so we really believe in that farm
043to school um program I just want want to make sure that it's successful into the future thanks Senator gabard okay again it doesn't really clear up the point that I made and that was that if you believe that individuals should have the freedom to choose their diet based on their values and needs if you don't have the plant-based options then they can't choose that's all my thank you CH thank you Nicole further further questions members so um Department of Education just to reiterate are you saying that you already offer this you already offeri we do yes plant-based yes once a week well it's a vegetarian lunch entree at least once per week including two plant-based Entre okay thank you can comment on that a there a vegetarian I mean once a week that doesn't do
044me any good so I have to starve for the other six days I mean I I don't or you can make lunch I guess but any anybody we could have all plant-based food and all the all the uh the omnivores could bring their own lunch too I mean I don't I don't see how it's an option if it's only once once a week that is a good point yes I I think too that the the schools should know which um you know how many of their students want this opportunity and want to offered more plant-based products and so that they should adjust their meals to um be able to offer that and I'm not going to say that I want to recommend it or mandate it because I think that should be part of the
045Doe's jobs to know what their school what their students want to eat so with that members further further question just coule couple of more so um earlier when I I came into the square building you guys talked about called ULU chips and ULU milk and all all of these other um products um how is that going along right now ULU chips and milk um can I ask for clarification on the milk do you mean like a plant-based milk U milk oh ULU chips ULU chips are familiar with uh we are working with on a request for proposal program to uh bring in uh bread Fruit Products I I didn't write up ULU chips specifically yet but we were looking at chunked uh ULU to be used in stews we're looking at um ULU flour to
046be put in the rolls and the breads uh I will revisit the ULU chips um as far as ULU milk that's uh new to me I know we're looking at Macadam at milk um if I can Circle back about ULU milk um I appreciate the opportunity the only reason I bring them up is that um just like how we bringing up right now is plantbased products as being an option and vegetarian meals being an option um I'm being in my fifth year here and um there's no ULU milk and ULU chips or any other um ULU or any kind of alternative to any of the meals because of the product that cannot be supplied to the school so I just using that as an example Le of how he just fall between the cracks sounds
047like a great idea and then how much schools is participating in this a vegetarian meal once a week thank you members I'm going to call for the vote and um yeah sorry CH and uh because of the discussion the recommendation of the chair is to um OS the bill I'm not going to I'm voting no so I'm not tring to pass it but I think we should V recommendation of the chair is no I'm sorry we actually voting the whole you have to vote individually I mean committee by committee yeah yeah so for Str Str 78 and and sr65 the recommendation is for education for Education committee is [Music] to not that's well how about you say it's just a hold vote there to hold to to hold okay to hold that's right sounds nicer
048Okay so chair votes I to hold correct okay chair votes I Vice chair votes I uh Senator Hashimoto I Senator Richards excuse Senator flla I okay four eyes one excuse um recommendation to hold is adopted so I don't know Mike it doesn't make any difference we don't you want to vote okay uh same recom same recommendation to to hold as the vote correct yes the chair's recommendation be to vote no because I don't want to hold okay all right all right chair's recommendation on scr 78 sr65 is not to hold correct Senator gabard votes no excuse me yeah it is so they're voting on The Hold cuz I was no but he said not to hold yeah but he's not his recommendation is not to hold yeah but it's but the motion is still you
049the same Senator Cher G votes no Senator Richards is excuse Senator decoy guess I voting two hold two hold okay two hold I'll vote no Senator is excused so we I don't know where this leads us to we voted not to hold so the Bill's dead I mean are has the same Strang well that's one way of ending the day that's a unique one that concludes the hearing