001okay good afternoon it's Monday March 18th ining conference room 224 3pm agenda uh joint committees on labor and Technology higher ed for a number of uh two bills two house bills and before we get started um the event that something catastrophic happened with YouTube or anything uh we're going to come back on Wednesday the 20th at 300 p.m. in room 224 okay and we do have a 2-minute testimony limit but it's highly recommended that you stand on your written testimony okay all right up first house bill 2720 into collective bargaining up first we have uh good afternoon chair Vice chair members of the committee Deborah Halbert vice president for academic strategy I do stand on my written testimony but I did want to make one uh one clarification of a number that has been circulating
002about 80% of courses being taught by graduate students in February 20233 we had 498 graduate teaching assistants so those are the folks that would have been teaching courses of the 2543 undergraduate sections that would be excluding independent studies or those types taught at uh Manoa a total of 579 sections or 22.7% involved a teaching assistant of some kind 187 sections had a ga and the instructor of Rec or as the instructor of record which would have been 7.3% so we just wanted to clarify some of the data on what and where the students are teaching and I know way mean this to undermine the quality of the work that they're doing or the services that they do provide just wanted to clarify that thank you thank you very much up next we have BNF director
003saw earlier okay the comments okay up next we have Benjamin wisman good afternoon chairs Vice chair members of the committee I'm uh Ben wisman I'm here with the graduate student organization of the University of Hawaii at monoa I'm also a a graduate research assistant and PhD student and the gso um unanimously passed a resolution in support of this bill and we stand on that resolution St testimony okay thank you very much up next we have hsda good afternoon president to going to be here today I'm Andrea echelman the deputy exec we stand on our written testimony I'm available for any questions you might have okay thank you very much here we have okay thank you very much comments okay next we have n Tom Israel on Zoom hello my name is Danielle dco and I'm
004here on behalf of Tom Israel and the National Education Association I'm a higher education organizational specialist with NAA and I join you tonight to thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and to again express our commitment the National Education associations of commitment in our steadfast support for academic labor United's efforts to unionize specifically I want to highlight that we are here to support reverting HP 2720 uh HD3 to HD2 which more appropriately uphold the constitutional right of all grad workers to collectively bargain I just want to share with the room I have witnessed myself that academic Labor United is ready to unionize they have the support that is necessary they have the resources that are necessary they have the expertise that is necessary now is the time to support them in their efforts
005to form their Union appropriately this support of this committee I urge you all to push this bill forward so that we are able to provide the support that we have been that we have been prepared to provide the last couple of months and are looking forward especially to um seeing them through the recognition process and as they form their Mighty Union thank you very much malaho for the opportunity Balo excuse me for the opportunity to participate hey thank you very much okay up next we have diano it's a little tooo close um afternoon um chair Senator Henry okino and Senator Don Mar kakim as well as the members of the labor and technology and higher education committees uh I'm di un teaching assistant from mography and I'm the chair of academic Labor United We Stand
006in strong support of HB 2720 but we contend that it must be reverted from HD3 to HD2 ht3 the current uh version of the bill as it stand simultaneously creates bargaining Unit 16 for grad res unit workers and classifies them as a class of workers that shall not be included in any bargaining unit nor entitled to coverage under chapter 89- 6 we recognize that the legislature has the power to place public employees in the exent workers category as this detailed in chapter 89- 6 however doing so for graduate student workers directly interferes with their constitutional right to collectively bargain as public employees which the Supreme Court in ubw versus Yogi already ruled that the legislature cannot do so having both mend Ms ra a legal contradiction since graduate student workers were placed under the exemp
007category buing them from coverage under chapter 89- 6 this removes her ability to eventually file any petition to the hlrb much less for inclusion in bargaining Unit 16 and finally since the law in the hlrb looks to the legislature to create new bargaining units first having Unit 16 take effect only after the hlrb certifies it is a clear obligation of legislative Authority thank you for the opportunity to provide us and I will be able to answer questions okay thank you very much up next we have hga okay with comments okay we have Elizabeth yenu new support okay Chris Coffield Jason Bradshaw Chris Coffield again uh mikeu Senor Michu Jr Ronald sturis loha good evening chair Vice chair other members of the committee uh my name is Ronald sturis I'm the vice chair of the uh
008student caucus that's the University of ho student caucus uh we represent formally we are authorized to serve as a systemwide Association of students from each student campus government across all 10 campuses in the UA system we unanimously share a position of support for House Bill 2720 with a specific request to have its language amended back to the uh How It Was Written HD2 thank you very much for allowing me to testify okay thank you very much up next we have miles jakowski how it chair marot Kim chero members of the committee I appreciate the opportunity to offer my testimony today my name is Miles rowski I'm a civil engineering graduate worker as well as an organizer with academic Labor United and I like i' like to voice my strong support and reverting HP 2720 HD3
009back to 2720 HD2 uh firstly I want to say that we're proud to have the support of and stand in solidarity with OA we recognize the vital role that OA members play in our professional and academic lives now we've pre previously estimated that 80% of students are affected by ta labor during their course of study uh based on the available data that we had this estimate does not imply that t teach 80% of classes this is not the case merely that our contributions and our labor during our employment will collectively account for 80% of The Graduate students during their course of study the important truth here is that the university doesn't function without our labor in addition to making valuable and significant contributions to advancing our respective fields we affect so much of the student
010body the labor Central to our struggle doesn't subtract from the labor of others nor does it negate the value and the significance of that labor our desire is that we are all recognized for the contributions we have poured our emotional and physical labor into we believe that any attempts to minimize the vital role that graduate workers and our colleagues in OA play in the future of our communities and this island represent an ignorance of the True Value that we all bring our Collective contributions cannot simply be a ledger entry to be tallied and summed up this is not a zero sum calculation 100% of undergraduate students will eventually in some way be affected by graduate workers and 100% of students will eventually be affected by uh faculty we firmly resolve to stand in solidarity with
011AA and our Collective struggle to have our labor recognized and fairly compensated I want to thank you guys for allowing me to testify before you today thank you very much up next we have Sarah Maria s moin did I get that right perfect just look intimidating chair committee members I'm s they pronouns I'm a third-year PhD student in political science and a graduate teaching assistant I support reverting HB 2720 HD3 back to HD2 which upholds a constitutional right of graduate assistance to collectively bargain I stand behind my written testimony and want to add additional color about how the university works with the gso in 2021 to 2022 I was elected the academic Affairs chair of the graduate student organization which means I worked with uh Deans and faculty on issues including both academic and graduate
012student grievances representing graduate students to The Graduate faculty Council provos Council and faculty Senate a key issue I worked on was the punitive practice of academic probation when students pass the recommended time of their program while still being within the maximum time limits uh puts academic probation on our transcripts this could happen if a student took courses part-time while caring for a sick family member or got sick with covid-19 imagine what employers and funders think when they see academic probation they assume the person cheated or Worse not that they're simp l a few years away from the deadline to finish their program this Draconian measure impacts graduate students applying for research funding fellowships postal positions and faculty jobs upon graduation I talk about this because I worked for seven months to Garner graduate student testimony
013and faculty support for changing this policy in May 2022 The Faculty Council then unanimously agreed this practice should be stopped this however didn't occur instead uh decided without further graduate student input that they wanted to keep the academic probation notation policy even as it hinders the financial security and job prospect of their students our constitutional right to Union would allow us to actually successfully work with uh to create working conditions for us as both students and workers without a union our efforts to organize frequently are undone by uh Mahi andoss okay thank you very much up next we have Noel iaki okay support will coron junin Olivia Meyer Daniela es contella Monica orillo John Nightingale all in support and we have at least at least 20 30 or so all in support um we do
014have Hannah manshel with comment any others wishing to testify Aloha cherino cherim and committee members my name is Lily fiser I'm a graduate assistant in the American studies department at uh monoa and an organizing chair with academic Labor United um I'm here to testify in support of reverting HP 2720 HD3 to HD2 which upholds the constitutional right of graduate assistants to collectively bargain um the University of Hawaii could not run without grad student labor collective bargaining will allow graduate students to harness the power of our labor to address structural inequities in student salaries treatment and security we deserve to represent ourselves and negotiate with the administration as a collective and we've proven that we're capable of doing so for years and without institutional support Alo has created Avenues to serve the unique needs of our
015diverse membership we're a truly Grassroots organization committed to creating a union built on principles of community care and inclusivity that can attend to the intersecting needs of every graduate student I've been working with Alo for over 2 years and I've listened to many stories of the compounding academic economic and interpersonal stresses that make life as a ga unsustainable but I've also seen Alo emerge as a space and resource in which we can seek sustenance from our community I'm so inspired by the brilliant workers that compose our membership and seeing in spite of numerous roadblocks and our own heavy workloads our numbers continue to grow we're becoming more organized better resourced and more committed to one another and our mission for a union we're going to continue to work for the rights that we know we
016deserve because we genuinely care about keeping each other safe and about making higher education accessible to people of all socioeconomic backgrounds we also know that a graduate student union will benefit not only the students and workers of U but workers in Hawaii more broadly we're here asking for support and a legal Pathway to do what we've already been doing which is to care for our community mollow for the opportunity to testify okay thank you very much any others wishing to testify guessing non members questions chair yeah a question um Sarah can you come back up hi so and I you know any one of that you could answer this question but uh I've read in other testimonies and heard that part of the problem is that um The Graduate assistants seem to be overburden with
017um number of classes and that if folks complain then you concerned about retaliation because the professors you would be complaining about are the ones that you are working for is that any truth to that I think there is truth to that so when I was the academic Affairs chair I was the person who was trained on all of The Graduate division policies for academic and graduate grievances who graduate students would go to and most frequently students did not want to go through the proper channels because you have to list and document everything and show it to your Superior and and that's still the person who would need to write your letters of recommendation for any future jobs or anything else but there's no other Pathways that we have to actually address grievances that are outside
018of a system built without us and that when we raised concerns about it in training was just this is the thing that we've had to build legally I rais that because I listened to the testimony of person before you miles who said folks are in solidarity with OA but yet it's OA members who are the ones that are doing this so have you folks approached o as far as you know making sure that they would they would um give you folks equal kinds of work and Fair Labor practices I think would you want to take this yeah thank you let me well I have one more question for you too you do you want to come up why don't I finish asking then and then you talked about the amount of money that you make
019how much in tuition what's your tuition I pay out of state tuition um so I'm trying to think of exactly what it is off the top of my head but it's like what is it 12 I think it's 10,500 up to 13,000 depending on how many credit hours I take per semester per semester depending on how many credit hours I take okay so you could actually 205,000 $22,000 a year inition wavers soim no I don't ever actually receive that money that no but they're waivers right be tuition waivers the the tuition waivers are in the M of I believe 12,000 in the fall yeah but per semester so per semester so 12,000 in the fall yeah so about 24,000 a year if you went sure yeah I think it depends on the amount of coursework
020if you didn't have the waivers that would be out of pocket cost right it could be either out of pocket costs or other funding that I would have to cover it so there are other ways to get tuition waivers or to get f for like Fellowship so there certain fellowships that requ you not to have any other things that would offset funding for example there's fellowships I can apply because I have a tuition waiver as a worker so it doesn't necessarily mean I would be paying for that out of pocket right but somehow that cost would be attributed for your education okay thank you so yeah to clarify the statement regarding OA um so there are members of Faculty that may have that gent workers may have grievances against but that does not mean that
021the entirety of OA is responsible for that yeah Behavior just like the entire legislature which we get blamed for and or not but we get blamed Anyway by the unions so I'm just saying that you're talking about solidarity by the unions and by Opa and they're the members that are in fact um viol ating or making you guys want to go to a union because you don't have certain rights you know the fact that they're a union you would think that they would want equal rights for you as well so I'm just you know concerned when you folks use such words because they come they come here and they don't come in person necessarily but they come here and talk about you know that you folks should get it but then what are they doing
022to helping you folks and the uh as well I think is a culprit in that they're not helping to make your um your workplace uh you know equal or or reasonable as far as you folks doing the work and I think it's unfair and yet You' have nowhere to go which is crazy that you should be in that position and so trying to understand that OA has supported the formation of a collective bargaining unit for graduate student workers ever since that any kind of legislation yes that's not the question is whether or not they've helped you folks in resolving some of your issues with their members well so the thing is that OA has a union and so there is a process by which renes are acknowledged because they have a union because graduate student
023workers do not have a union even though you have faculty that may be supportive even though you may have The Graduate um I think our interim graduate um division share was held testimony to that that they can offer us options they can offer us all these Pathways but because we do not have the that Union we do not have that legal framework but which we can kind of um accommodate these policies then there's a limit what um can be done but labor practices are labor practices whether you have a union or not right I mean you would think at this day and age the University of Hawaii would recognize some of these labor practices or or policies or the way they're running things that shouldn't be going on um and so should the union and
024so that's all I'm I'm raising that that's a concern that I rais when you know you guys talk about solidarity yes maybe for you folks to have a union but whether they're not they're there to assist you and theying sure that their labor practices and what's going on and how they're treating you folks in the workplace uh is fair so again these are individual members of OA Senator and so we're not trying to um blame it on OA as an Union as a whole because there are these policies in place and there is a way for them for their members to be held accountable because they are a union and for example if there were some grievances between you know AA and the uh they have that recourse but because graduate student workers do not
025have a union no I understand I'm just saying that these are issues that if we folks don't get this bill passed that you be in the same situation and the university shame on them for not stepping up to make sure that you folks are adequately taken care of uh for the work that you do and similar to the union that you folks are not getting treated adequately or the way you guys think you should be so with Aion fact really push for that kind of fair treatment because right now there's no legal accountability framework where we can there's no legal framework by which we can hold them accountable similar to what SAR said even though a polici unanimously supported by the faculty Council I think if you've listen to you know the executive management has
026no Union and they want to be treated correctly and equally right and they do and they raise their issues with uh without having a union so you don't have to have a union I'm just saying that the treatment of the graduate assistant necessarily just having a union is not going to necessarily solve all your problems because even though you go by grievance you ask how many union members and I know cuz my mom was a um shop steart for her Union and that it doesn't get resolved just because you file a grievance doesn't necessarily mean it gets resolved but truly Senator there is a recognition that a unionized worker has more power because of that collect bargaining unit because of being able to negotiate a contract rather than a non-unionized worker is there that recognition
027of the difference between a unionize and a non-un ni worker yes and you still have people that op out of being in the union and they still get the same rights so thank you okay thank you chair um any other questions pleas chair uh Dr Halbert afternoon um so the students are saying that they have brought concerns up they don't feel protected um and and so the university has a process why are they saying that they haven't been treated well and protected by faculty who may be abusing their position could I ask that our dean of graduate education come up to help answer that question because there are processes in place at man but I believe she's been more involved in afternoon announce yourself please uh Julian MAA interm Dean graduate division there is a
028process for graduate students as well as graduate assistants to share their concerns or report concerns um about how they're being treated uh neglected all kinds of different things in order for the university to move forward with any type of investigation we do require a formal complaint most of the graduate students that come talk to me they do not want to file a formal complaint they do not want the respondent to know that they filed a complaint even though there are options on and we've have had cases where they could change their committee and reconfigure it so they were not part of that um I guess in that relationship or that environment anymore with the mentor or whoever it is that might be um causing an inappropriate environment for them but the vast majority do not
029want to to go through the investigation process so if they form a union and they have representation do you think these how how would the process be so that we can protect our students have them finish up their studies and graduate I think it would it would be similar to the way faculty and staff um if they reported a situation it would be a similar process where they would invite their union representative or I mean if they went formally I don't know too many employees that that have just in my own um experience um due to similar concerns of retaliation or um just unfair treatment perhaps uh I think it would be similar in in that sense there would still be the fear of retaliation and not having the situation completely resolved and I mean
030and I and I get it it's I get very frustrated because I can't do anything to help them because they don't want to go forward and as part of due process we have to I mean we can't move forward investigating someone if that someone doesn't know that they're being investigated just going to maybe it's for um end up um so in terms of one of the other concerns that they brought up is the salary compensation and being overworked um is there any standard so that you do um Monitor and assess that they're not being worked overly over the the 20 hours or whatever hours and that they are compensated there's a way of of raising their salaries so we do have policy under revieww right now and sometime in the next few weeks we'll be
031meeting again to go through the comments from the formal consultation that would increase the salary steps for gas another 10 steps so instead of stopping at 20 which is currently $35,000 it would go up to 30 that's uh at 52,000 at that point we're starting to hit a salary that if doubled to a full-time one FTE would be more than what many of our faculty make so there's concerns that we would need to balance in terms of that as well so what is the salary now of your different steps so the steps start well at Manoa I believe you start at step 12 this year is currently step 12 step 12 which is $25,988 it's 22,170 so that's the starting um Step now the other part of your question is the workload piece and that's
032always a really difficult question to answer because there is the 20 hours part-time work but then oftentimes these are students who if they're research GA are potentially working on the work that is part of their doctoral dissertation so how you choose to categorize any given thing I mean it's similar to what faculty work is right if I'm reading for my course is that work or is that fun I don't know right it's just all part of what we have to do in in preparing for both our scholarship and our teaching so so there's always going to be some fuzziness around the end now in ga's TAS or gas who have a more discret kind of workload then it should be easier to be able to identify the starting and stopping points but the other part
033of it I mean this is obviously infinitely uh complex is that if you're assigned teaching a class not all the work happens in a 20-hour work week right sometimes it'll be more sometimes it'll be less depending on the waxing and the waning of the work in the course so so what what do you say when they say that the university couldn't run without grad assistance I think that in addition to that graduate students this is a critical professional development training for graduate students so for those who are going on into the academy this may be the opportunity they have to teach a class or to be mentored by someone who's teaching a class so so it's a critical part of what we do at the University and also for the research component both for their
034personal research but also for the research that they will go on to do in in their professional careers there's these critical parts of what graduate students do that's important so are they taking on loads that should be done by faculty no I think in I mean and again I think Julie can speak in more detail to the specifics of what's happening at monoa but it's a it's an important relationship and it's one in which you know and and again it's not to say that there aren't that it's perfect right there are definitely problems that need to be addressed you answer to that no I think um what Dr hbert shared is is accurate it it's a it is a complicated um issue thank you chair s just just going forward this see one the complication
035and going forward the students cannot be rep representative with the more Union but they keep talking about these Oompa whatever I don't know people that is supposed to be setting in unity with them where's those guys who set in unity with them representing on their behalf to their fellow colleagues I mean if I got to advocate for somebody in my community with one of my colleagues I'm going to Advocate is say how much of them going to have evocation from them going forward when we come into the Union because they kind of keep waiting to become Union and keep getting past you guys telling me to getting $112 so how can we get more of that to help them so they can move forward right you heard how much of think came up said right
036I don't know all the acronyms they had over there but I heard about three or four of them said unified and I know what union unification means that means we unified as one but it doesn't seem I think there's the disconnect between them and the unification because unification means they're advocating and they're not advocating they're just giving the verbal I would you girl well I can't speak for the unions but I would I would like to highlight something that Dr MAA had said which is that in the process of making a complaint right now a faculty member would come for have forward and have Union representation in this case uh it would also be something potentially a graduate student could do uh for their own if if they are engaged in a complaint process is
037that they would have an advocate for them uh now whether or not that means all unions will unite I cannot tell but um that's different yeah but the thing the thing is what what you were saying so the students we can complain black Bal power they're not going to use them CU they black Bal and you can't say the university not going to do that because they're they're very you know you know anyway so going forward how can we end up protecting them CU that's the reason why they came to us right they want to feel some kind of protection or being used and misus and Abus for decades or years I don't know how long Abie said he created him so I don't know since Abie how long is that see so how can
038we again help them cuzz I heard something about $12 how much how much you get P an hour $12 an hour no oh sorry 12 12 step 25,000 25,000 I was like BR you're getting ripped off okay thank you chair whatever you guys can help because we want to help them how can we help them if you know we don't have the tools to do it so thank you thank you chair sen kidani thank you so do you have a a number or percent of um other universities that have um unions for grad students I should have looked that up before I don't have that right here but I I bet the students do though yeah it's quite a number yeah it's quite a few right and and very large systems as well like California's
039system has unionized grad students so specifically is the University Administration against Union in reg we we not in favor we are taking no position because this is a legislative matter but a legislative matter because you folks made it that way well since they have no position I think we should support the gr students so you you responded to Senator moraki that when she asked you about the university could function without grad assistance and you your answer you didn't really answer that question but your answer was no more that this program is for the benefit of the grad students and not necessarily for the University so I would take that as the answer is uh yes you guys could function without grad assistance I would like monoa to answer that but I don't think that a
040research one institution can function without graduate students would you like to that is that is correct okay so let's get that on the record because the way you answered it didn't see sound that way um to somebody listening where you didn't really answer the question yeah I wanted to make sure I highlighted what I think some of the value of that right is the value were more towards the grad system than it was through the faculty because technically The Faculty should be teaching in classes if there's no grad assistance to teach them right but not all grads assistants teach many are research faculty or research assistants and many of those who do teach are you know in the classroom or Tain section so okay so um Dr Maya the number of complaints that you receive
041I mean it's well kind of well known right or well documented Mano that there's these issues surrounding gra assistance yes right that's correct kind of well known so the fact that it's well known why do I have to need an investigation why couldn't there be whole whole system changes to address these issues why why do you have to wait for individual investigations when you know that it's it's problematic it's question to you AG right you guys know it's there yet you kind say well there's a process oh well you know we have to go through this we have to wa for an investigation and these these students fear for retaliation and not just them that fear trust me I get calls from faculty that belong to the unions that don't do Grievances and that's why
042I bring that out because they're not no matter who represents you you're still going to be known to that Professor that you filed agreements and doesn't always get resolved I get so many faculty that call me and they either quit or they file lawsuits I just got two last week they're filing lawsuits you know um for hostile work environment for for some other reasons um but if you folks know that this is there why why have't be hope so changes system changes for the the students who have come to see me one they're all different faculty so it's not necessarily all in the same now if it was in the same unit then no but then it should be for the whole university why is it only one unit I mean you know what's good
043for one should be good for the other so whether you have graduate assistants not being violated or not being protected others that are the fact is the whole university should have a same same kind of policy to protect them all right we we do have policies against a hostile work environment hostile academic environment um but it's a prevalent and it's not working something's not working enforcement's not working something's not working so why hasn't you guys I mean technically I always hear this that you know a lot of the University they're the brightest mindes in the state right they're the brightest mindes in the state they get paid a lot of money in the state they do a lot of research so how you guys can't we solve this issue one a basic labor practices is
044and and treatment of your employees do if I can if I can clarify though for most of the students who have come to talk with me they're not a ga they're a graduate student I've maybe had two come to speak with me in maybe three in the 10 years I've been with The Graduate Division and so those are very few and far between um we do have Advocates now for them and actually The Advocates out of the manal carees office was created primarily to help graduate students especially with the concerns that they have okay but the fact that you've said that it's kind of well known that why are we addressing them whether they gas or whether they're Grant students it shouldn't be occurring and yeah they they're never going to be perfect system but
045it shouldn't be dis prevent right yes I mean we but we do offer trainings um for the faculty um it's just a matter of making them much more I guess annual and to encourage all of the faculty to attend so one last thing I just want to make sure so all the those grad students that are supporting this understand that whether you are represented or Not by a union rep for a grievance you file a complaint this complaint is going to be made known to the person that you're fing it against right and that not all griev get resolved to the liking of the people bringing you up and there's still retaliation that go on despite that right even though we have policies against it yes and even though you have a union you still
046have issues yes right okay just so that they know that this is not the Panacea because it's still going to occur and because I get union members call me and they don't want to file agreements they don't want to go they don't even want to go on the anonymous on the anonymous of law because they feel that that they're still going to somehow be found out and they fear for their job jobs even though they may be tender they still do so okay thank you I have a quick question so what's your reading on the current house draft it's a little confusing in one section it says they can bargain and then another section that says they're exempt from bargaining I mean what's since you shared your position can you share on The house's position
047um I I'm not sure I can speak to how uh that should be resolved it seems contradictory to have it in both of those sections the way it is currently written okay thank you very much members any other questions you see on chair okay thank you move on to the next item on the agenda which is House Bill 2501 house draft one this is relating to the university reporting requirements repeals the reporting requirement to identify the cost impacts to the state of providing workers compensation coverage for the University of voice students and uh just as far as Jen goes there there she is walked in great timing Jen thank you uh the University of ho stands on its written testimony and support of this [Music] measure you are the only one testifying members any questions
048no questions good for you okay um anyone else wishing to testify on this measure okay nobody else so with that I'm going to the decision making going to recess briefly thank you okay reconvening our 3 p.m. joint agenda with the labor and Technology Comm committee and the committee on higher education members the recommendation um well the decision making on Two Bills recommendation on the first one house bill 2720 house draft 3 read to collective bargaining after conferring with the uh chair of higher education we will be uh recommending a senate draft one to remove all contents of the current draft and insert uh Senate Bill 3317 Senate draft one that effectuates a barain in unit bargaining Unit 16 and insert also a definition of grad assistant I believe it's yes and we're going to keep
049the date defective for now okay any questions or concerns members just recommending the committee report that we put in about the fact that you know being a union organiz doesn't necessarily as a panace to resolve a lot of the issues which still have to be addressed by the University of Hawaii okay okay we'll go ahead and insert that chair in the committee report I know that there's another bill with criteria for how you create a bargain un so I'd like that if if um so I would go WR unless we can put that say in the contents um committee report to say that it should be a determination with some criteria for bargain yeah can we put that uh we probably could put the language in the no in in the committee report yeah so
050it's it's sort of like conditioned so that there are criteria by which you do it and hlr okay I believe we can do that yeah we we'll go ahead and do that in the committee report to uh make mention of a of a bill that would um help address to have Cru determination for okay okay thank you very much okay any other questions or concerns members see on Vice chair fo of hold K HB 2720 uh passed with amendments um chair hi Vice chair moai Senator car hi Senator Lee okay Senator p i okay recommendation adopted thank you and for higher education House Bill 2720 house draft 3 same recommendation to amend to the Senate version uh that we passed out and with the um insert inserts into the committee report any discussion members hearing
051none chair votes I chair votes I Vice chair votes I Senator faga excuse Senator Hashimoto hi Senator flla hi measures adopted mam chair okay thank you and for House Bill 2501 house draft one this is for um removing the reporting for workers compensation recommendation is to do an sd1 uh basically technical amend M ments correcting any legal technical or substantive amendments any discussion if not chair V chair V Vice chair V Senator fuka excuse Senator Hashima hi Senator FLL hi measures adopted M thank you Liber and Technology committee same recommendation any questions or concern seeing n Vice chair any members will no with reservation recommend adoped thank you right thank you thank you calling to order the joint committee on the of education and committee on labor and Technology uh today is Monday March 18
052the 302 p.m. agenda and we are in room 224 first item on the agenda is House Bill 2400 HD2 relating to education and to testify superintendent please good afternoon chair uh M of committee Department thank you next to testify Ani good afternoon chairs kidan aino members of the committee and heri Department of the Attorney General as we stated in our testimony in order to align the bill with terminology currently used in statute uh the department recommends substituting the word surrender with the word forfeit or forfeiture as applicable I'll be available for questions thank you thank you an next to testify Felicia this thank you is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure Angela Angela Melody young testifying on behalf of kapalama neighborhood security watch um in strong support um so this policy
053will set forth an act to add predators and offenders to the National Association of State directors of teacher education and certification which maintains an interstate agreement with the hoi teacher Standards Board it is unacceptable for offenders accused of abuse to evade accountability by relocating to different jurisdictions or institutions this um act then will make sure potential Employers in an educational setting are aware of the unlicensed statuses of these offenders so I think the terms of this law can benefit from more specificity especially if it is dealing with grave offenses in the penal code of title 37 of the Hawaii revised Statute um so I'd like to point to an example that this policy can copy it also has to do with protecting students from abuse and in integrating the levels of care in response to
054uh child abuse this policy I'd like to refer to is house spill 2425 an expungement of the central registry to equip those working with children youth and families so with the expungement of central registry in a response to integrate the levels of care to protect students from child abuse the records of child abuse and neglect reports are maintained by the State Child Protection or social services offices and there's a process to get evidence to confirm abuse and then a process for clearing of expungement from the records so this is data from the Child Welfare information Gateway office um an office from the United States Department of Health and Human Services and so it refers very specifically to child abuse in the state law of what defines harm harm means section 587a threatened harm means the
055same chapter 587a which is the child protective act so back to this bill HB 2400 um it needs to have more specificity to refer to the Peno code of what are the degrees of sexual assault um Class C felonies and Class B and class A felonies Buy in the degree of the sexual assault portrayed by actors um as per the penal code so um I think it will be um more um specific for the sexual abuse offenders to get the penal code chapter there thank Angela members any questions on this members question testimony see that we have allegations and and and all of that on top maybe I never redrew the whole bill but we we have a problem in the doe and I know you know too all uh I'm not going to say
056teachers but people that in education that do grooming and you you you know that you heard the name before right grooming so um how how we going to address that if a student maybe wasn't uh abuse abuse after two years of grooming and then she realized that she was being groomed for other things on I guess uh solicitation or more more an arras of harassment how how we going to address those issues that we have in the schools too thank you Senator um uh in any situation involving uh what what you had just shared the department does have a process for us to initiate investigations in those immediately investigations no in those areas and so um uh we definitely will do so um with expediency and I and I see that you know it talks
057about I mean like I said I just reading what I have here in in a brief of the bill but how how are we going to address coaches who's not affiliated with um the doe and another thing maybe you can go look in to I just wanted to find out when and why and how come that the do decided to not have coaches that are teachers and faculty and going outside the room of getting nonstate employees or employers or employees excuse me going forward and coaching because in the previous past I'm not saying it didn't happen but we got to look into something like that to also take care of our student athletes because they're being victimized of nonstate um employees and then how we're going to move with that one well thank you Senator
058um definitely the Safety and Security of our students is of utmost importance um we're looking at uh athletic coaches you're referring to Athletics yeah athletic coaches um you know the department does look at teachers who are willing to coach um but also um it is open to other uh members of the community that are able to coach at our high schools or at our schools um definitely uh their interview and process is in place to do our best to ensure the safety of our students but should an allegation be made as I had shared um investigations would be launched and uh but for this bill in the process of that investigation if an individual who is um with the Department decides to um resign from the Department then we would in in this situation for
059uh for teachers we would um immediately ask that their um license be surrendered thank you chair thank you thank you for the questions okay moving on House Bill 1653 relating to education pursu to a collective bargaining agreement negotiated for bargain un five provides annual salary step increases for public school teachers and educational officers who completed a Year's satisfactory service and compli with specific requirements superintendent please H Cher kidani Vice chair Kim Cherry Kino Vice chair of moraki uh Sean bacon assistant superintendent for the office of talent management testifying on behalf of the department we stand on our written testimony offering comments and are available to answer any questions thank you thank you Lis alaria Department budget Finance good afternoon CH Vice chair Department of budget and finance we will stand on our written testimony respectfully
060in opposition respectfully wibert hul good afternoon chani chairo Vice chairs and members of the Committees um my name is Wilbert Hulk I'm the chief negotiator with the office of collective bargaining and we must um oppose this bill basically because um wages such as this are negotiable under chapter 89 the collective bargaining law um I will be here if there are any questions thank members questions good afternoon Senator um do you do you think that there is a issue with this moving forward yeah um I think there are practical implications if we do remove this particular provision it's currently collectively bargained uh so from the standpoint of the employer uh because we do bargain step uh movements um we would just not include that in any forward negotiation that we would do and in all likelihood
061what we would just propose each time would just be uh increase es to base but since there would be automatic step movements throughout there the likelihood would be that the the itbs would actually just be smaller amounts than what we currently provide because there would already be automatic movements uh outside or within a contract term you think there's a Time timing problem a Time problem with um the negotiations and moving forward with that um it would it would be challenging because you know you would be negotiating at any given point in time but then there would also be movements that are happening outside of negotiations because you have these Provisions in statute that would provide for automatic step movements essentially okay thank you thank you chair could this set a precedent for all other um
062unions I believe it could yes because this is just one particular unit uh and you know there are other units that have steps to as well which we actually you know again bargain when we negotiate both uh well when we negotiate contracts does this also affect um the ability to bargain for other areas I mean like for instance over the years um I believe that U the teachers union are the only one that get all of their vacation time in C up front um is that is that correct or I I'm not sure about that um I I would defer to to to the areas that really kind of handle those types of benefits I I'm just looking at it from the standpoint of uh wages and and really there are two particular issues of
063wages that we negotiate on uh and which we budget and finance really look forward what that are really involved with and that's either increases to base and step movements and so essentially removing one of those Provisions basically just leaves us with one particular option that we would be negotiating on right but when you negotiate you don't just negotiate a salaries or the stat yes there are other provisions and and but for the most part we're we're not involved in a lot of those when the employer cannot give certain raises the Unions would ask for other things to compensate at that given time that's a possibility could be in the instances of getting vacation time all up front you know because then it gives them more flexibility in of getting the raises that they might have
064wanted it's all it's all on the table time I guess in in viewing it it it's a uh it's it's a total compensation package right uh benefits as well as salaries and wages and you know to be you know just to I mean we support and we continue to support uh you know the educational workers we just finished you know uh a four-year contract with them this year which we believe was very uh you know competitive uh you know but in this particular case again we're just looking at it as as a tool that we both negotiate on both the employer and the employee groups and this would just eliminate one of those Provisions that we negotiate on okay and I know that the unions do Al always bring up issues that that well that's
065a negotiated item therefore we shouldn't bring it up in the cases where they don't want to brought up right understood yes okay thank you further questions question chair hang on and Mr Hulk could you come up as well I'm a process person meaning we have something in place now and it's not that I I don't support the teachers getting the wage I think we all know we need to keep stepping this up but I'm also not wild about partially changing things because when we start seeing um potentially bandaid after bandaid to fix something that we tried to fix and um from your perspective and you're The Negotiator I mean I I think I understand what you're saying is your concern and this could be applicable across other contracts are we studying our St up so
066we're going to have some Stutter Steps going forward and I just I in my mind I can see this thing starting to snowball and just comments on that and and both of you please okay I think this does create as you call a Stutter Step because part of the problem with it is that in the year 2000 the legislature pack passed act 253 which was the civil service reform and within that act um they the legislature amended chapter 89 to give a clear definition of what wages included under chapter 89 and um among other things one of the things that the legislature determined was that wages included increment steps and longevity steps and then in 2016 the legislature repealed um this very language from U HRS 302 a626 education section which to clean it up
067so you know you're going to what you're going to do is go back and forth back and forth I don't know if that's a good thing to do and to follow on I I think from a from a process perspective uh I think we've been uh we we've grown accustomed to negotiating against step movements and itbs increases to bases which usually translates into about you know on average I would think for the last couple anywhere between 3 to 4% uh each to for each one like a step movement or an increase to base but if you have automatic step movements that are happening outside of negotiated agreements then the reality is is that I think you would see itbs that would probably be a lot smaller than what uh what we've grown accustomed to I
068mean probably in the vicinity of maybe more like one between 1 and 2% versus like three or maybe three and a half so the there are practical implications by making these changes and and I just want us to make sure that if we do decide to go that these things are are you know we go into it Eyes Wide Open okay and I appreciate that because you know again I we know that we need to step up but I don't like changing things um that's why I'm not wild about Constitutional Amendments or or anything like that because I think there's a process we have established and sticking to processes are important for going forward so I I appreciate that thank you chair thank you members I'm sorry but we have a few more testifiers I
069just asked okay just just really quickly so you know we've got all these V encies and we need some incentives and say the city has gotten bonuses where they get police officers at $25,000 more would bonuses be outside of the system so that you're not tampering with a current I mean if you really needed to incentivize so some kind of um incentive you know to to H I mean to to attract to attract so there there are those um and I'm not an HR expert but there are you know bonuses and incentives especially for you know hard to recruit type positions on and different types of categories so there are there are those types of uh of incentives that exist something rather than trying to temper with a system as Senator Richard says you know
070in this bill I think that that would be a path that would essentially kind of you know again take away a a negotiating tool for both the employer and the employee group uh going forward yes okay thank you chair thank you Joy buan thank you HOH chairs members of the committee L Moore speaking on behalf of foui president of the Hawaii state chers Association the hsd ends on our written testimony and I want to give history when I started in 1970 in 22 years I would have been at the top of the scale we got automatic step movements and then when you get to step 10 you stay for three years then three years three years well in 19 in 1989 the legislature took away our automatic stat movement and in 1992 I was supposed
071to be at the top of the salary schedule I came to the top of of the salary schedule in 2006 36 years after I started teaching and now that I'm at the top of the salary skill when teachers move a step I get a bonus at least the bonus counts towards my high three I believe that giving us back our automatic stat movement and when you get to the top you get a bonus is the way to attract and recruit our teachers the legislature took away our automatic set movements the legislature can give it back to us thank you very much for the opportunity to testify thank you John Fitzpatrick not present on Zoom chair thank you is there anyone else here wishing to testify in this measure okay members are there questions other questions
072okay moving on to the last item on our agenda House Bill 241 HD1 relating to workers compensation testifies superintendant please chair Vice chairs members of the committee CH for the Department of Education standing AR and testimony thank you Martha gan testifying in support for special education advisory council is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure if not recess okay reconvening our uh joint agenda uh 3:02 p.m. with education and labor and Technology committees okay so members the recommendation of the chair of commit education for 2400 HD2 to pass amendments defecting the date to July 2400 HD2 pass with amendments chair bothai numbers HB 2400 HD2 pass with amendments chair kidani votes I Vice chair votes I Hashim senator hasim I Senator Richards I Senator favella I byby recommendation adopted labor and Technology
073committee see recommendations questions or concerns Vice chair for the V HP 2400 uh pass with amendments chair votes I Vice chair votes I Senator Yara I Senator Lee I Senor fella I I votes recommendation adopted thank you for the next one house bill HD1 relating to education recommendation of the chair is to defer thank you very much okay moving on to the uh last measure um sorry and for LBT uh for that same measure House Bill 1653 same recommendation okay moving on to the last house bill 241 house draft one relating to workers compensation members the recommendation is to move that as a house draft one with technical amendments and a defective date of July 1st 2015 questions of concerns member sing on Vice chair for the vote chair V side 41 chair vot I
074Vice chair vot I Senator Yara hi Senator Lee hi Senator fella hi recommendation adopted committee on education same recommendation chair votes I okay for house build 241 house draft one recommendation to pass with amendments any members in the education committee voting with reservations anyone voting no if not five members present all voting I recommendations adopt okay oh we're Jour thank you very much okay joint committees on labor and technology and Health and Human Services uh joint agenda uh 3:10 p.m. it's Monday March 18th uh conference room 224 we just have one measure house build 2552 house draft one relating to employee benefits members uh and members of the public uh we have a a limit of 2 minutes okay but it's okay to stand on your written testimony because again thank you for Indulgence we're
075a little late okay but I'd like to move forward because we do have one more agenda after this okay thank you very much so um up first um the only Bill House Bill 2552 house draft one related to employe benefits okay up first you have Department labor industrial relations okay thank you very much dcap Kirby Shaw director executive director can support the DHS director bets also in support hsta oliv and mo um speaking on behalf of Osa Tui president of the Hawaii state Teachers Association we sent on our written test morning I would like to testify on my my nephew was born 1B 2 oz back in 1983 and I went in there they they told my sister-in-law and my brother that he wouldn't make it I went in there and had the nurses do
076what I had learn in college in special ed that you play music you talk to him you touched him and every day we would go in and talk to him and take him out of the trator and to this day he's okay and so it can be done this is an important bill we can save our children thank you thank you very much l okay up next we have Nicole woo white children's Action Network speaks chair Vice chair members of the committee thank you very much for hearing this bill we support this bill it's eight weeks of unpaid leave um added to Hawaii Family Leave law for parents whose babies are in the NICU um especially in the state like Hawaii where so many families uh babies end up at capol Lani um even if
077they're from neighbor Islands these parents are put in a really tough position they have to be with their babies but then they can also lose their jobs um so this is just some protection for these really um precious little babies and their parents who um really need to be there for them so thank you for letting me testify okay thank you very much up next we have the Hawaii Civil Rights Commission Aloha chairs and vice chairs Heather McVey on behalf of the Haw Civil Rights Commission we the commission supports this bill we're happy to increase protection for Hawaii's Working Families and people that have children the only thing I would like to highlight is that we would ask the Committees to consider adopting the suggested statutory Amendment language that we provided that would uh for
078the empowering statute just give a full enforcement um in addition to the administrative so thank you I'll be here for questions okay thank you very much okay up next Patricia bck brei breastfeeding Havi get support DOR Matsunaga Deb NAD Don po poyani okay all in support and we have Tod taniuchi not pres on Zoom shair okay also in support any others wish you to testify okay yes Aloha Angela Melody young testifying um in strong support on behalf of cares um so newborn babies who need intensive Medical Care are often put into a special area of the hospital called the neonat Intensive Care Unit the NICU the NICU has advanced technology and trained Healthcare professionals to give special care for the tiniest patients nicus may also um provide care for babies who are not sick but
079do need specialized nursing care um and so when the babies are in the Intensive Care um they need uh more time for the families um to um go and care for their babies um and so you know before birth the baby depends on the functions from the mother um and these include breathing eating elimination of waste and immune protection when a baby leaves the womb the body system um then has to adapt right for example uh the cardiac and ponary circulation functions um the digestive system um will start to process food and um push out um waste and the kidneys will start to work to balance the fluids and the chemicals and the blood in the body um and then the liver and the immune system will start to work on its own so this
080is all a very complex uh matter and so if we can help with the care of creating a healthier lifestyle um for the families that need to go um because they need the Neo native Intensive Care Unit we should provide that um in the vision for them so thank you okay thank you very much any others wishing to testify okay seeing non-members questions seeing no questions here all right okay we're going to go straight into decision making okay yes well I'll do it I'll do it for you I'll do it for you okay sure okay uh decision making for House Bill 2552 house draft 1 relating to employee benefits get memb recommendation after conferring with the chair of Health and Human Services uh we're going to be recommending an sd1 we're going to be inserting
081the requested amendments of the Hawaii Civil Rights Commission uh specifically in section 4 to include neonatal care in section or excuse me chapter 378 and which is the empowering statute of the Civil Rights Commission um and also members we're going to make this uh clean bill of July 1st 2024 any questions or concerns members okay again this is unpaid uh this is eight additional weeks okay seeing none Vice chair for the chair vs I so uh I spill 2552 chair v i Vice chair v i Senator iara hi Senator Lee hi Senator excuse recommendation thank you for HHS same recommendation Vice chair for the vote chair votes on okay chair votes I Vice chair votes I Senator k i i sen a is excused recommendation is adopted chair yeah all right so we're J thank
082you stand by for the 330 again thank you for your patience everyone okay uh 3:30 p.m. agenda it's uh Monday March 18th uh committee on labor and Technology okay just a number of uh bills on this agenda in the event that we need to reconvene for uh further business or decision making we'll be reconvening on Wednesday 3:5 p.m. in room 224 okay uh first we have House Bill 2658 house draft F okay related to Department of Human Resources development okay up first we have the her director okay thank you director any others wishing to testify seeing none members questions okay no questions okay let's move on to the next measure one oh you want a one so so with with this change it will decrease the amount of time that you can reclassify because you
083don't have to come back to the legislature before actually reclassifying or or or um eliminating positions is that correct yes that's correct um I should note though that de herd to my knowledge has never ever exercise this authority to abolish or to reclassify a position but it will expedite if you had to do it yes correct thank thank you chair okay thank you very much members any other questions if not moving on House Bill 1642 house draft one to General employee orientation okay first we have hga okay thank you very much United public work workers thank you very much any others wish you to testify seeing non members questions okay questions okay okay okay moving on to House Bill 2235 house draft 1 okay related to non-general funds okay first we have Department in labor
084industrial relations thank you very much up next we have tax foundation not present on Zoom chair thank you very much any others wishing to testify seeing nonmembers questions I don't know if you can answer but you David so you know the um you want to announce yourself David Roger with the D so it's exempting the boiler and elevator from the special fund um no not that one but um yeah entral Services fund that's a fee that the BF charges do you know why they said that they were Exempted from it that was an agreement we worked out with the BNF um because the the fund only generates between like 1 to 2.5 million I think it wasn't enough anyway so I guess exempting it would would allow the fund to have more money in it
085and then you know the penalties fund um is changing from special fund to trust fund do you know why um is based on the auditor's report for my understanding so no no but the reason for moving it in a special to a trust uh because BNF believed that it it's best suited as a general fund thing not not a special fund it wasn't yeah put into trust so you can draw down more or is there a cap like the special fund there's a cap right so I guess cuz with the special fund they weren't able I mean they were able to keep the money just for those purposes right but so this is more General use yes it's more General use now okay thank you chair thank you thank you members any other questions okay
086so n let's move on to the last measure House Bill 1639 house tra F reling to the eutf thank you for for your patience first we have Derek [Music] Mizuno okay thank you very much uh members any other sorry any others wishing to testify okay members questions okay we heard a similar measure in the Senate okay no questions I believe we're going to go directly into decision making okay so up first house bill 2658 house draft one okay reling to uh department of human uh Human Resources development uh this would repeal a certain uh report requirement members the recommendation is to move this as a senate draft fund with technical amendments and a defective date of July 1st 2050 questions or concerns members see on Vice chair for chair v i chair v i Vice
087chair v i Senator Iha hi Senator Lee hi excuse recommendation adopted thank you very much members moving on to Hill 1642 house draft one relating to uh General employee orientation members the recommendation is to move this as a senate draft One technical amendments and we will be uh making this bill clean uh of July 1st the effective date of July 1st 2024 questions to concerns members seeing n Vice chair for HP 1642 all members present anyone voting no with reservation recommendation adopted thank you very much moving on to hospital 2235 house draft one related to non-general funds members uh the recommendation would be to move this as a senate draft one uh technical amendments and uh we're going to move it up a little bit to July 1st 2050 questions of concerns members seeing on
088Vice chair for the vote all members present anyone voting no with reservation recommendation adopted okay moving on to the last bill House Bill 1639 house draft one okay uh for this one uh we will be moving this as a senate draft one with technical amendments and a effective date of July 2024 anyone know anyone with reservation recommendation adopted okay thank you very much everyone uh colleagues and members of the public thank you very much for your patience we adjourn