001Good afternoon. Welcome to the Senate Committee on Education. Today is Friday, February 10, 3:00 p.m. and we are in hearing room. Happy birthday. This meeting including the audio and video of remote applicants particip I'm sorry remote participants hope you guys aren't here to apply for anything is being streamed live on YouTube. You will find links to viewing options for all Senate meetings on the live and on demand video page of the legislaturator's website. This Zoom meeting and YouTube live stream event will include the 3:00 p.m. agenda for the committee on education. In the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to major technical difficulties, the committee will con reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Monday, February 13, 2023 at 3:00 p.m. in this room 29. And a public notice will be
002posted on the legislaturator's website. I'd like to take this time to our testifiers that due to time restrictions on our hearings, we will be limiting testimony to one minute per testifier per bill. For people participating remotely, please remain muted and video disabled until shortly before it is your turn to testify. When I call your name, unmute yourself and your time will begin. After your minute is completed, staff will mute you so that we can move this hearing along in an orderly and efficient manner. Thank you. Thank you members for joining me. And we start this 3:00 agenda with Senate Bill 107 relating to the board of education. Authorizes the majority of the members of the board of education to elect a chairperson from among the members of the board. Allows the members to annually elect
003a chairperson upon the start of the next confirmed term for members. removes a requirement that the chairperson be at large to testify. Testify Bill Araki, chairperson, board of education with written comments. to comments also from Andrew Crossland and Susan Pola Davis. We have individuals to testify. Ryan Nicholas Nicholas Luther testifying in person. Ryan here. It's not Cynthia Bartlet in person. Cynthia here. All of these uh testimonies were in support exception of the board of education. They had comments. Is there anyone here wishing to testify on this issue? Pardon me. Okay. Okay members, just for your information, the current requirement uh of the makeup of the board of education is for the governor to appoint board members. They have staggered terms and only the three at large members can be considered for chair. Um and because
004of this we have had issues where chair uh the atlarge members have resigned and then there is no one to chair or the chair's etc. So, this was the crux of this bill. Um, members, any questions? Thank you for that comment. could have left that comment on. Moving on to second on the agenda, Senate Bill 783 relating to education funding requires the Department of Education Committee on Weights to consider the impact of its weighted student formula recommendations on small and remote schools. Do we have only one testifier? Testimony from Susan Davis. I don't have you down, but please apparently not. Okay. Aloha Leverne Moore speaking on behalf of Osoi Jr. President of the Hawaii State Teachers Association. The HSDA supports Senate Bill 783. And I want to mention real fast, we stand on our written
005testimony. I served on the first student weighted formula back in 2004. We identified special ed, economically disadvantaged and e as the target area. We were not aware of small and remote schools. That I believe that was the mistake we made because small and remote schools they do not have enough funding to provide equitable education for all the students where in high school where would you find the extra teachers to teach all the curriculum that's required? the small and remote schools truly need extra funding so that they can give our students equity valuable education. Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify. Thank you, Lever. Is there anyone else here wishing to provide question? Correct. Good afternoon, Chair Kan, Vice Chair Kim, and members. Deputy Attorney General Ayuchi. Um I apologize that our testimony wasn't
006um received by the committee. I'll make sure it's sent in. Um the department has just some comments regarding the bill. Uh this has to do with what is new paragraph E1 on page 4. The phrase or the term 1hour drive away could be open to some ambiguity. So, in our testimony, you've suggested that that be replaced with um a distance in miles. Also, with regard to the use of the term public high school, um if the locations of charter high schools are not intended to affect whether a department public school is classified as a quote unquote small and remote school, then we recommend replacing the term public high school with department high school. And this would be on page four, line 17. I am available for questions. Questions? Thank you. Yeah, I have I have
007a question on funding. I'm not sure who do it, but a comment was made by HTS HSTA concerning um weighing heavier for the rural schools because we don't have the economies of scale. This came up in the WHAM hearings for DOE. Do we have an estimate of what we might need as far as percentage what we spend on students in the smaller more rural districts? And I'm not sure how much I think the right to the department. Yeah, we have send that back to the department and we'll get done through testimony. Chairs that may like to handle that question. Sorry. Um, I'm asking a financial question. You want to wait till we get through with this testimony and then I can call up the department. Yes. Okay. Testify. Good afternoon, Chair Gani, Vice Chair Kim,
008and committee members. Brian Holiday, CFO on behalf of Keith, Superintendent Keith Aash. Um the department has comments on on this measure. Um sorry we did submit testimony. I apologize it hasn't got to you yet. Um essentially that that testimony acknowledges that there are economies of scale challenges that are that are experienced by small remote schools. um also acknowledges that the committee on weights has for several rounds attempted to tackle this issue of small and remote schools and how best to address them through the formula and has the solution has been proven elusive for the committee uh thus thus far and what has been used is a application process with a funding source that we've been using er funds for this year and last year to assist the schools of course the er funds uh go
009away in future years so With or without the language contained in this bill, the committee on weights we anticipate will continue to struggle with that challenge u of finding sufficient funds for all schools statewide. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. So the question I have then is I agree it's elusive but do we have a number that we can try percentage choice? So that's that's something that the committee on weights I would committee on weights is charged by statute to make recommendations to the board on the weighted student formula. Um work hand in hand with the department uh committee on weights is it's a committee that is essentially chaired by the superintendent or to designate and it's something that the work of that committee will be happening over this upcoming summer. They meet every
010two years. Um I guess I'm saying I don't have a specific answer for you at this time. I think it's going to largely want to defer to the work of that committee to dig into that uh analysis. I have to believe that this this has been an ongoing issue and I can't believe that this is the first time it's being raised. So, how do we get an answer back to this body? I think that's that's been the challenge of the committee and as mentioned it was it's elusive. Uh one of the challenges is uh anytime the weighted student formula it's premised on the idea that um resources are distributed to schools based on enrollment and student characteristics. It doesn't necessarily or inherently take into consideration location considerations. We have used something called base funding where
011approximately 10% of the weighted student formula is provided to schools based on the fact that they just open their doors. That helps to assist the smaller schools. um whether that's been sufficient or not um I think many folks many people feel it is not and you've heard that today in the department it's generally sympathetic to that defining the exact amount formulaically um that is very challenging and and and it's been something that's been struggled with and no answer has been found I I would agree that that is but I think you still have to make a decision so just saying that we can't come up with the number thereby we won't is not a good argument I think and I would strongly ly suggest that the work done this summer come up with a number
012to try and then we come back and if it doesn't work then we change it but try something as opposed to not trying anything at all because I'm really mindful of the rural district schools um and how they struggle anyway so strongly suggest that thank you chair yield thank you members further questions so Brian I have to agree with with senator from the big island on this Um the superintendent is the chair of the committee by statute. Yes. By statute. And who else is on the committee? Composition of the committee as is approved by um the board of education with the concurrence of the dean of the college of education. So the composition can change. It's a very representative composition. We have elementary middle high. How many people on this board? Recent years approximately 15
013to 16 members. original committee the one lever was on was was over 30 over 30 it was quite large. So who decides how many number the number um the board is tasked to define role groups and then the department is charged to go find folks who can fill those role groups and turns out there's about 16 to get full coverage of the role groups and historic historically so maybe we need to get a letter to the board of education regarding first the number that' be a workable number so we can get a decision from them and again you know we know it's trying but if we can come up with a with some numbers in it. I'm sure that the call can come up with something and certainly you can bifocate and say well schools
014with x amount of students have this student formula and schools with x amount of students could have a student weighted formula um that could deal with it in one way and I don't know you know that's coming from a lay person like me so I don't understand how this board of experts or people who have concerns cannot come up with something similar that we can at least do a pilot project on further questions members. So Brian, I think um I understand the dilemma that the committee weights has, the superintendent has, but I think if they don't get a handle on it, the bulk of the money which lies with within the Department of Education will be where they get it from. So, I think it behooves the superintendent and the committee on weights to make
015some decisions. And I would think that maybe you could start by by just uh looking at charter schools now as they exist, what they they need to survive and what they've historically been given. look at that number and and maybe look at the size of the schools. Do they match the numbers that they're getting as far as the funding? So, we've got to start somewhere and hopefully I'm not sure yet if we'll defer this bill or not, but hopefully we can get some answers on this. Thank you, Brian. Great. [Music] Okay, I think that's all the testimony that we have. Anyone else here wishing to testify? Thank you, members. Moving on. Senate Bill 1232 relating to the state library system authorizes the state library with approval from the board of education to impose and collect
016rates, rents, fees, fines, and charges for the use of state library facilities and revise rates, rents, fees, and changes charges as necessary. Testify state liitani on behalf of Stacy Audrey state librarian we stand on our written uh testimony and are available for comments or questions in support. Thank you. Is there anyone else here wishing to testify on Senate Bill 1232? That's the only testimony I have here. Members questions. Thank you. Senate Bill 806 relating to libraries authorizes the state librarian to decline to conduct a requested review of an item within the Hawaii State Public Library system collection if the item was previously reviewed by the system in good faith. The basis for the request is duplicative or substantially similar to the basis for the prior review. The response to the prior review was issued within
017the last year and the state librarian determines that it is unlikely that the library's response would differ from response issued for the prior request to testify. State librarian please. M Fujitani on behalf of Stacy Alred State Librarian stand on our written testimony and support and are available for any questions. Members, do you have questions? So, Mallerie, what what precipitated this bill? Um, we recently have been getting requests for to take out um books from the collection. It's part of a national trend to take books off the collection. We have a very um methodical, thoughtful process for by which um we the state librarian would review um and um make sure that the initial decision to put something into the collection was um done in a very um objective way um and in line with our
018collection development policy which asks us to make sure that we have a diverse collection for our statewide public library system. Um, nationally there is a trend. There are several groups that are trying to make individual decisions about books that should remain in public library systems. Yeah, I understand all of that. So, I just wanted to know is there a problem that you've been that they've been asked has been asked time and time again for the same thing. And is it this the decision with the library or should it be in statute or is it in statute that says she has to review every single request? Uh right now it's it's there's no nothing that prohibits um us the state librarian from having to um there's not no she doesn't have the ability to deny the
019review. She doesn't have the ability once she's she's made the review. So recently we had about 15 requests for the same book. Okay. And she made she made the initial denial. Yeah. And is anything precluding her from having to go and do it again? Um, I guess it's it's open-ended. It doesn't have anything that precludes us from Yeah. So, I'm wondering why do you need this measure? Because if it's her decision and she's already done it and she's basing it on this, why do you need it in statute? Yeah, because she's it's not like she's required by statute to to review every single thing that comes before it, right? Because you have to watch the slippery slope. We put something like this in next time they're going to say, "Well, we wanted to say that
020she has to or she has to do this, she has to do that." So, you guys should be careful on what things you ask because if she already have the power, then you're going to put something in statute and say, "Well, it doesn't cover this, it doesn't cover that." Right. Understood. Okay. Thank you. Other questions, members? Thank you. on to Senate Bill 603. Actually, there was one other written testimony by Cheryl on a previous bill and that was in support of the bill. Moving on to 603 relating to education allows students who experience educational disruption to graduate high high school through enrollment in an accepted alternative education program and participation in certain activities approved by the department of education. testify. Superintendent Hayashi. Good afternoon, Chair Kedani, Vice Chair Kim, and members of the committee. I'm
021Heidi Armstrong from the Department of Education. The department stands on its written testimony offering comments on this measure. Thank you. Anyone else here wishing to testify on Senate Bill 603 have one written testimony in support of members? Any questions? Yeah, I guess. So, is there a problem? I mean, I know you offered comments, but is there a problem with doing what the bill is asking? There there's an awful lot in the bill and some of the asks would require statutory changes um changes to our um graduation guidelines. And so our suggestion if this bill passes is that a working group be convened because everything in the kitchen sink is in here and um it would take time and resources as well as other agencies to help pull something like this together. Okay. Thank you for
022that. It is a it is a voluminous bill and um you know many times we look at what's new language without looking at some of the others. So appreciate that. If I um so if the department of education were the ones to be giving a diploma, would it name the school the student originated from or the stu the school um that actually issues a certificate of graduation? I I think that would be part of the work ahead to make those kind of determinations. So you have these cases already and have you had complaints about how they're handled? No. And they they've been handled differently. Um Olana is one example. Um and um it that that part has worked. Okay. but they're still adhering to the um existing graduation requirements. Whereas this bill um may require
023um modification is is asking for some exceptions to those existing requirements. Thank you. Thank you. Can I do one quick last question? Does the bill require any kind of certification that in fact the student um has a disruption due to valid issues from my re specific certification requested but that would be something that a working group would have to determine um to determine who would qualify to go through this pathway. because I'm just wondering at some point if it does pass and certain students are allowed and others might say, "Well, that's a way out if I can just claim because I know people claim they're um maybe disabled and not really have to prove it." So they everybody get a parking parking dis parking pass just by claiming it. So anyway, okay. Thank you for
024that. Okay. Thank you. Next on our agenda is Senate Bill 283 relating to the public charter school per pupil fun. This bill excludes from the charter school per pupil funding calculation all amounts relating to programs that provide comparable benefits for all public school students regardless of whether the student is a department of education school student or a public charter school student. number of testifiers. Um, Hawaii State Teachers Association, please. Aloha chair and members of the committee, Leverne Moore, speaking on behalf of Osatoui Jr., president of the Hawaii State Teachers Association. The Hawaii State Teachers Association supports Senate Bill 283 and we stand on our written testimony and we want to point out that the charter schools really need the help. The money they're getting, it pays for their program, but it does not fund the
025facilities or the rent that they're paying. And so these are our students. They meet a critical need in the community and we should be there supporting them. Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify. Thank you. Next to testify, Ivan Ma, interim executive director state public char. Good afternoon, Chair Kani, vice chair Kim, and members of the committee. The uh Ivon La on behalf of the charter school commission. We stand on our written uh uh comments on this bill and we're happy to work with this committee and all the stakeholders in addressing any issues that this bill is trying to address. Thank you, Ivon. And we also have someone on Zoom, Janelle Rivera, not present on Zoom. Chair, thank you. And a number of written testimonies. Members, are there questions? A question from Von.
026Ivonne, please. Um, I read testimonies from people that are opposed and am I correct that some of them are a teacher at the charter public schools? I believe so. So, um, so are you folks agree with what these so testimonies are saying? I guess, you know, in terms of this bill, we're not clear on what the bill is trying to address. It's talking about excluding um programs that uh I think the language is provide comparable benefits for all public school students regardless of whether the student is a department education school student or a public charter school student. So I'm not without understanding what specific programs are talking about, it's really difficult for the commission to understand what what we're trying to exclude from that per pupil calculation. Currently our our charter schools are getting funding
027from EDN 100, 200, 300, 400 getting a um a proportion of that based on charter school enrollment. So, I'm not clear what this bill is aimed at in terms of what duplicative funding is being included in the per pupil. So, I it's very difficult for us to identify what the bill is trying to um the issue they're trying to get at. So, um I I'm assuming that the drafter of the bill is saying that charter schools are getting funding that they shouldn't be and that's why they want to exclude it, but I really don't know. I think that's what the drafter is saying is that they're double dipping because they're getting uh funding for things that all schools including charter schools already get funding for. So I the commission you're not you're not sure what
028those programs are. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh for Superintendent Hayashi, did you guys have any testimony? Are you able to identify any of the programs that may be considered double dipping? Brian Pallet on behalf of Superintendent Keith Ashen. Um over the interim, this was something that we had looked at at the request of the Ways and Means Committee and there are a few possible programs that were identified through those conversations. Some examples are things like white teacher standards board is budgeted in the Dwe's department and that supports all teachers. Um, so there may be a handful of programs like that that provide support for all public school students and employees scattered throughout the department's budget, but it's it's a daunting task to pick those out. I just add
029Yeah. So for the Hawaii State Teacher Standards Board, what is is it a fee per teacher or something that's already provided or what? That's that's the program that for a while there was funded by fees for teachers but since in recent years the legislature I believe has provided general funds now directly to teacher standards board so that fees are no longer collected for teachers in good standing question members thank All right, moving on. Next bill, Senate Bill 1343. relating to education clarifies that because minors do not have legal capacity independent I'm sorry do not have legal capacity independent of their parents a minor students parent illegal guardian must produce the required student records when transferring schools clarifies that emancipated minors may also produce the required student records when transferring schools clarifies that the transfer process
030is the same whether a transfer is within the same complex area or to another complex area. Sorry, pages are all stuck together. Superintendent, please. [Music] Good afternoon. Heidi Armstrong from the Department of Education and the department stands on its written testimony in support of this measure, but I do have one um requested amendment and I'd like to give you a revised testimony um if possible. It includes um a section regarding um McKini Vento students. Some of our homeless students and some of our homeless students are facing difficult situations and they are protected by the McKini Vento Act which would allow them to um transfer their records independent of a parent or legal guardian since they are homeless. Would you like me to give you the revised testimony now? Yes, please. Thank you. Is there anyone
031else here wishing to testify on Senate Bill 1343? Members, questions. Thank you. Moving on to Senate Bill 1344. relating to educational health services. Allows administration of allows administration education to public students by health assistance with the approval of a health care professional within the Department of Education, Department of Health or Healthc Care Service for a written agreement with the Department of Education replaces the term school health aids with school health assistance to reflect recent changes to the title superintendent, please. Good afternoon again, Heidi Armstrong from the Department of Education and the department stands on its written testimony in support of this measure. Thank you. Testifying for Department of Health, Dr. Kenneth Pink. Aloha. I'm Joan Takamorei, public health nursing branch chief. On behalf of Dr. Kenny Fink for the Department of Health, we stand on
032our written testimony and support and we're available for any questions that you may have. We support bill. In support. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Clementina Seria Ulletine School of Nursing. Hi, my name is Laura Reichar. I'm a representative for Dr. Seria Clement or Dr. Seria Olip. Um, and the School of Nursing stands in strong support of this measure. Thank you very much. Thank you. Laura Reichart. Hi. Uh, my name is Laura Reichard and I'm the director of the Center for Nursing and I stand in strong support of this. Thank you. Thank you. Eric Abbe support for Hawaii Primary Care Association. Naomi Emanuel in support testifying for Epsil epilepsy foundation of Hawaii. Susan Pakola Davis in opposition. Stephanie Marshall in support. Courtney goes in support. Are any of these on Zoom? No one present on Zoom. Chair,
033thank you. Julia Lindberg also in support. Thank you. Members questions. [Music] None. Convening the committee on education. The recommendation of the committee is to pass out Senate Bill 107 with amendments that are technical and nonsubstantive. Chair [Music] 107. I [Music] thank you. And for Senate Bill 783, recommendation of the chair is to defer indefinitely. Senate Bill relating to the state library system. Recommendation of the chair recess. Is it convening the committee on education? Senate bill 1232. The recommendation of the chair is to pass as is. Chair Bside. Okay. Chairside. Any member president voting with resolutions? Anyone opposition? Hearing none. Thank you. For Senate Bill 806, recommendation of the chair is to defer indefinitely. Senate bill 603, recommendation of the chair is to defer indefinitely. Senate bill 283 recommendation of the chair is to defer indefinitely.
034Senate bill 1343 recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments and the amendments is that this section shall not apply to McKini Vento eligible students including unaccompanied youth who are not under the physical custody of a parent or legal guardian. with those amendments and technical and nonsubstantive amendments. Chair Baiations voting opposition and the last bill on the agenda, Senate Bill 1344. Recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments. Chair voting no reservations. And this concludes the hearing on education.