001Good afternoon. Welcome to the Senate Committee on Education. Today is Monday, January 30th, 3:00 p.m., and we are in hearing room 229. This meeting, including the audio and video of remote participants, is being streamed live on YouTube. You will find links to viewing options for all Senate meetings on the live and on demand video page of the legislaturator's website. This Zoom meeting and YouTube live stream event will include the 3:00 p.m. agenda of this committee on education. In the unlikely event that we have to abruptly end this hearing due to major technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on February 1st, Wednesday, 2023 at 300 p.m. in this room 229 and a public notice will be posted on the legislaturator's website. I'd like to take this time to remind our testifiers
002that due to time restrictions on our hearings, we will be limiting testimony to one minute per testifier per bill. For people participating remotely, please remain muted and video disabled until shortly before it is your turn to testify. When I call your name, unmute yourself and your time will begin. After your minute is completed, staff will mute you so that we can move this hearing along in orderly and efficient manner. Thank you. Our first agenda item is Senate Bill 106 relating to education. authorizes the Department of Health to require the Department of Education to report Corona virus disease 2019 case counts and other related information in a manner most appropriate to public health and safety as determined by the Department of Health. Testify We have Superintendent Keith Hayashi. Aloha Cher Kidani, Vice Chair Kim, members of
003the committee, Keith Hayashi, Superintendent testifying on behalf of the Department of Education. The department stands on its written testimony and support of this measure. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you, members. Any questions of Superintendent Hayashi? Next to testify, Kenneth Bank testifying for the Department of Health. Good afternoon, chair and vice chair. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I'm Sarah Campbell, state epidemiologist, uh, speaking on behalf of Dr. I think in the department of health today we stand on our test written testimony as submitted in support of this measure and stand by for questions. Thank you. Thank you Sarah. You look different behind your me. It's been a long time since we've interacted with you. Thank you for being here. Members questions. Thank you. Zuri Aki testifying for office of Hawaiian
004Affairs. This testimony is in support. Gerald Gerard Silva not here opposes. Susan Colola Davis also opposes recess. Thank you. Sorry, forgot the protocol. It's been a while. Uh so anyway, this um bill, Senate Bill um requires no longer requires the Department of uh education to report to the Department of Health weekly uh COVID counts. So it's um by request from here on in. So um there being no further testimony, are there any questions from the members? Thank you. Do we even need a measure like this? I mean, I know we want to get rid of the environment, but do we have Yeah, I I'm not sure. Department just give it anyone requested. Yeah. I mean, that's basically what it's moving it out so that because it was required previously, we had to have a bill
005that changes the status. So, it is by request. We could just I mean, we could just refill the whole thing. Yes. Further questions, members? Thank you. Moving on to the next item. Senate Bill 414 relating to education establishes the Hawaii Educational Expenditure Trust Fund as a separate fund of the Department of Education for improving the education and supporting the programs benefiting the students of the Hawaii public school system. To testify, Superintendent Hayashi, please. Kudani, Vice Chair Kim, and members of the committee, Keithashi, Superintendent, testifying on behalf of the Department of Education. The department stands on its written testimony in support of this measure. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Um, Superintendent, could you just give a brief um description of what this um trust fund does? Yes. Um, the fund would go beyond the
006department's existing authority or trust funds by allowing for the deposit of state or county funds into the fund uh the acceptance of non-monetary assets and authorizing the non the hiring of an investment manager and a third party to oversee the administration and expenditure of funds. Also, I have Brian Deputy Superintendent Kurt also here to answer any additional questions. Thank you, Superintendent. Members, are there any questions? Senator Kim, Mr. Yashi, um tax foundation avoiding notes that this fund is entirely unnecessary and probably violates special fund and trust fund criteria and chapters HRS chapter 37. What's your response to that? Thank you very much for the question, Senator K. Uh very basically we we disagree with that termination that it's inconsistent with state law. There is an incredible amount of transparency for non-general funds as required by
007chapter 37. Um one of the concerns was was a lack of transparency. But but clearly chapter 3747 and the annual non-general fund reports that are posted on our site as well as on DNS website and submitted to to the legislature every year would detail out revenues, expenditures, um all kinds of information about these funds. Yeah. But who rarely who always read it and see those? Well, I think certainly the fiscal committees and and they're charged with with reviewing our budget requests. So why is this why is this necessary? Um um for the reasons explained by superintendent and going beyond an existing trust fund but for what purposes? I mean what is it that we're you're not able to do now that this fund will allow you to do? Inspiration for this fund included things like
008the Corvalis or Oregon Corvalis public schools that have foundations um the University of Hawaii's Foundation where they have more externally operated um fiscal support to support the the governmental functions. So it's it's to it's to house resources perhaps outside the state treasury managed by third party administrators to then support where is right now we have schools that may be doing some of this work on their own or maybe doing it with the PTSA that may from year to year you know transition in capacity. So this is to try to create a separate entity that can can house and manage that and provide continuity and and manage risk as well as being transparent based on the requirements of state. I know that Fington has the Fington Foundation, McKinley has one. I think Lani not I mean
009I think they have their own. So how would that relate to to this fund? I think it would provide an option for those that don't have that capacity of a large school especially a large urban school um to provide that kind of continuity and support. I think it's it's it's a highly technical thing to manage resources. I would expect the county tax fund and in the fund you would delineate any kind of donation or resources that might be given to a particular school and you're going to keep track of all of this. That that's in large part why we're looking at a third party administrator as well as a fund manager. What kind of cost does that essentially require multiple accounts within a larger fund that would roll up into a larger fund? I mean
010that's a nightmare how many schools you have. That's what we currently do with within our state system with our trust funds when we have donations gifts and donations for specific purposes. Uh and you are correct. It is it is a very challenging activity and who who manages it now? Uh a very small team of accountants as as well as each of the schools administrators who come and go and and with with the support of their school staff. what kind of cost this is going to require that's not that's not ex determined at this point how much that third party administrator may cost it would depend on the scope and the use so this is to start the conversation to start the fund and to start the work it's something that like again we go back
011to modeling after uh Foundation and and other entities that have created organizations like this well I I'm concerned because you know we we passed that assessment and we didn't know it was going to cost us a million dollars to go hire somebody else and get another entity. And so here we are embarking on a whole new fund. We're not sure what the cost might be and then we may be looking at more than what what you know resources we probably can even bring in. Who knows, right? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Other questions? Yeah. Senator um may want to sit back now. Ju just so to follow up on this trust is the intent to have u tax exempt rephrase that um tax credit to the donation into the trust. Is that the idea? Because
012I've worked on universities that have these foundations and trusts where it's a true I know it's not a 51c3 necessarily but so there's a tax benefit to the donor. Is that what the intent is? No, that wouldn't be one of the the intents. Yes. Okay. And then as far as I I hear what you're saying about the management to be determined a little bit later. Um but also the other side of that um this would be administered by the state on a per school basis or is it managed by the state for the whole school system? The reason I asked that question is if you have someone in, you know, my district, district 4, someone in North Hawaii donates something with the expectation the funds are going to go into the schools in that district,
013but then it gets diverted to another side. So I think that's a concern. Our expectations it would be would be both. It would be like the low United Way where you have a generic general fund as well as specific funds that you could donate to. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Senator Camp. So right now when somebody makes a donation to the way it is, do they get a tax credit tax rate or donations to Hawaii public school system or tax? Okay. So you don't need this one to to give them a tax credit that question. Um Brian, you keep trying to run away. The more you stand up, the more we'll ask you questions. Um so my question is if you're going to um spread the money out to various schools for those schools
014um as discussed whether it's McKinley or Barington that already have something you know going are they expected to put that money now into this trust fund? That's that's not part of the expectation at this point. No. Okay. And so if they have um those separate funds, will they be excluded from receiving um any money that goes into this this trust fund? No. And I think we'd like it to be as an option to to join the fund if if they see fit to do so. Okay. Thank you. Other questions? One last question. I promise. Um, according to the tax foundation, it says the proposed fund does not appear to meet the criteria for a trust fund. No student, for example, can say he or she has invested beneficial interest or ownership in any of the
015monies in the fund. It probably is more accurate to classify the proposed fund as a special fund. I think the beneficiary of this fund would be the public school system and those that it serves. Yeah. But apparently what a trust fund is defined as one in which designated persons or classes of person have a vested and beneficial interest and equitable ownership of which was created or established by a gift grant and contribution etc. I think it's the the class the class is what we're talking about of individuals not not an individual student necessarily and whereas special funds are okay we'll take that up in in decision making thank you any further questions yeah just so you said not it's not for the individual uh student you think correct the only reason why is as the
016V says um support the programs and benefits of students of the Hawaii public school system. That's I wouldn't expect the donor would say I want to give money to to Johnny and and then we would managing that money on behalf of Johnny for for kids students education. I think it would be for classes of students. So, so the plane is for what what I'm saying is that when we had um went to the other schools around the state and some of the rural schools that's 100 years old and um need a lot of help, but having this trust fund and then how you guys are going to um allocate it and you guys that's going to be a fair way of distributing around across the board. You see what I'm saying? Because you're saying it's
017going to be helping strengthen schools. Um some of the show has spread the funds of the department of education to improve education support programs and benefit student of Hawaii public schools. So how you guys going to how you guys know you guys how you guys going to implement that in I think it'd be very speculative at this point for us to to to say exactly how it would be done. It'll depend on the terms of and conditions of the donors and for which they're giving the funds for. Um but I think we will try to create classes or general categories the same way similar to Aloha United Way and how they do it. Um as well as perhaps school by school, grade by grade if if absolutely necessary. But in in general, I think our
018preference would be at the higher level and support of a school or group of schools. Um it would just make administration of funds simpler um to have that kind of flexibility. But that'll have to be worked out as as we get donors and and and start moving forward with this program. No, only reason why I say is some donors is going to contribute more for some areas and some parts of the community. How you guys going to allocate that knowing that the donor gave $100 million to Fington High School? Something like that. I mean, how you going to justify it and say, "Okay, we're not going to give $100 million to Fington High School because most of the amenities are there." Not saying that they don't need it, but everybody needs it. But then how
019you going to divert that money at this donor thinking that he's going to be the person that taking care of Farington High School? I think the simple answer is accounting and and keeping track in accounting ledgers, rows and columns of information by organization, by school level, by purposes, by you see the kind of stero maybe not going to have big donors up in K and those areas of how how are they going to get anything if there's no donors that want to give to those schools then now we're in the same predicament that we kind of are Now, in the allocating of the money, so if you say that I will give you $100,000 and then you're going to let the donor know, we cannot specify all of it is going to go to Fington
020High School. We might have to spread it around. We give them an option if they want to give that money. See, because if you take the money and you're thinking that you can have them for Fington, find out you use some of that money to kill out with a with program have some funding. and the person that gave them would be feel like, hey, wow, you didn't have a sitting in a print when I would donate my money. Thank you, chair. Okay, I have a couple more. Sorry. So, who pays who's going to pay the fees for this entity to manage this fund and do all of this retail work? That's that's something we're going to have to work out the details on how much it's going to be. Is it going to come from
021the interest earnings of the fund is which what I would expect is it's what we'd be looking at because I know the uh Foundation they're asking for their their um ceiling to be increased and they get like 3 million and so if it's only in kind and it's not cash where is that cash going to come from if people are only giving in kind and not giving cash these are these are challenges that we'll have to work on as we and finally it says solicit public and private monies for the trust fund. Does that mean that now you guys can go out and solicit all this money and stuff? And who's going to be doing the soliciting? Hopefully the third party administer with the support of the superintendent. I I believe that's what the bill
022includes. And is that going to compete against schools that have their own foundations? I'm not I'm not sure the nature of it. I don't think this thing was baked yet. Okay. Thank you, members. Further questions? If not, thank you. Moving on, Senate Bill 481 relating to education requires the board of education to develop a Hawaiian language medium education kindergarten entry assessment to be administered by the Department of Education beginning with the 2026 2027 school year. Requires the state public charter school commission to adopt the assessment. requires a kindergarten entry assessment be administered within 90 days of a child's ad admission to kindergarten provided that the child has not received any other kindergarten assessment within the past 180 days to testify superintendent please chair Kdani vice chair Kim members of the committee Keith Aayashi superintendent testifying
023on behalf of the Department of Education. While the department stands on its written testimony and support, I did want to make some clarifying comments on this measure. This measure was introduced as a result of discussions held at the December 15th, 2022 Hawaii State Board of Education meeting. During that discussion, it was clear that the board direction aligned with the departments and deciding that a kindergarten entry assessment should be required of all students to ensure that we are tracking the progress of our students. However, an English kindergarten entry assessment would not be appropriate for a public schools and so the board approved the department's plan to move forward with developing a Hawaiian language kindergarten entry assessment. This piece of legislation is a result of that discussion. I'd like to be clear that a kindergarten entry assessment
024is not is not going to deny any child the education that they want and deserve. No matter how how a child on the kindergarten entry assessment does, they will be allowed to attend a kaya school if they so choose. The kindergarten entry assessment is simply a tool to determine their level as they enter kindergarten. It's a measure to understand where the child's starting point is and how best to support them to becoming their best selves. It is not going to deny any student entry into a Kaio school or any school for that matter. The department is in support of this bill but is asking for one amendment. Department is asking that the kindergarten entry assessment not be required for a student who has already received 90 or more days of kindergarten instruction elsewhere. As I
025stated before, the kindergarten entry assessment is a tool to determine where a child is prior to any formalized kindergarten education. And so, the tool will not be effective in assessing a student who has already had some kindergarten educational experiences. I stand ready to answer any questions you might have on this bill. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you, Superintendent. Members, questions? Maybe it's better to take everybody's testimony. Last question. We can do that. We'll take everyone's testimony first. Ivan Laauo, interim executive director, Hawaii State Public Charter School Commission. Good afternoon, Chair Kadani, Vice Chair Con, members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity. Ivon Laauo, interim executive director of the Charter School Commission. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I offer and stand on our written testimony and support with
026comments. Thank you. Thank you. Next, Canela Kamahalo Hanu Eli in opposition. Next, Kyani, chief executive officer for Aloha. Um, I'm the and I stand on my written testimony. I'm also here to answer any questions that you folks might have. Mahalu. Her testimony is in opposition. Yes, in opposition. Mahalo. Shannon Matson on Zoom also. Shannon Matson. Shannon, are you there? Apologies. Yep. Apologies. I was trying to unmute. Um, aloha, Chair Kani, and members of the committee. Um, I submitted testimony in opposition and I'm grateful to have um been able to hear the uh statement from the superintendent um before uh replying a bit further. Um I hear uh his testimony that it's just another tool for support, but I am still opposed as a parent of two Kiki uh one in Punano and one in Navajo.
027Um, as a parent and as a taxpayer, um, I I don't think that this additional assessment is necessary, I trust, um, the Kumos to determine, um, what their level is. And they have their own tests already designed, um, in Hawaiian language, uh, that are not translated from English to Hawaiian. I think that those tests are are already sufficient and valuable and that we don't need to spend any more money or time creating a standardization for this. Um, so I'm I'm still in opposition. Mahalo. Thank you. Mitsy Higa testifying for HSTA. I'm not sure. Is she on Zoom? doesn't say it. Um, Bitsya, are you on Zoom? No. Um, Megan Makua Iona, is anyone else here to testify on this measure? There's a list, but it doesn't say if they're going to be present or not.
028Please come forward. Aloha kayaka chair, vice chair and the education committee. My name is Shong or my American name is Angela Melody Young. Um I'm an advocate um and a founder of my grassroots cares and I'm a constituent of Kohi Kapalama. Um testifying in strong support of the um measure. The purpose of this act is to require the board of education to develop an assessment for those who are entering kindergarten in Oello Havi for ka papa kaya a puni and the and doe shall administer the assessment. Um and I'm just going to give a brief background history about the Hawaiian language and why it's essential to our schools. The Hawaiian language is very essential uh is a very essential aspect of our culture. Um, a Hawaiian language instructor at HCC said, "The Hawaiian language is
029linked to the care of our lands, waters, and cultural resources. It is vital to peaceuilding and the reconciliation process of the Hawaiian culture. Since the amendments to the state um constitution, the DOE has included many aspects of the Hawaiian culture into the education system. Um, it is vital to the preservation of our culture to support every aspect of the Hawaiian language at schools, especially for those who are entering kindergarten. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you, Kristen. Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify on this measure? If not, members questions. Yeah, I guess superintendent the superintendent, the concern I've raised about these assessments seem to be echoing through some of the testimony that we're hearing about that the uh kindergarten teachers are more than equipped to be able to assess the
030students and that the money should be spent um in other ways to benefit the student. uh and that this test that comes from John Hopkins isn't necessarily going to be able to relate to what's happening with our students here and I think we brought this up in the concerns and I don't know that you guys are continuing to proceed in this manner but of course if there's concerns about our Hawaiian children it certainly is same thing for all the other children in the system um so how are you folks dealing with this? Thank you very much for the question Senator Kakim. Um the the as as what I understand is that um um as we move forward with the ka pony assessment uh we will be engaging with Hawaii ka pony educators as well as
031the ka pony community in designing the assessment. Uh I also have uh see Deputy Armstrong um and uh O director uh Kawi Shang here or also Kioima assistant superintendent. Hi, good afternoon. Heidi Armstrong and um if I can just rephrase your question, you're asking why do we need this assessment? The overall I know we passed we the legislature passed the assessment. Um and at the time when I supported it, my understanding was and I thought it was going to be developed within the school system and the teachers in the classrooms are the best one to give the assessment. And now we're looking at spending over a million dollars for a one-time assessment. And you know, um, the superintendent just said, "This is to track the progress." I'm not sure how you're even going to track
032the progress. This is only going to be good for this one period in time. By the time the child is through with that class, that year, that the growth is huge, usually in kindergarten to first grade, and that it's going to be outdated. And so, the kind of cost that we're spending could be better utilized within the classrooms. and for the students directly. A teacher knows at this level after about a week with each of the students of what their levels are. Now, group is even before they enter kindergarten. So, I'm not sure how you're going to assess them before they even enter kindergarten. How how is that being done? They're interviewing every student before they enter. And and what what this assessment will do will allow us to have a data a source of
033data letting us know um the status and and how our kids what our kids know what they're able to do, what are their strengths, what are their needs as they enter into kindergarten. And this is valuable in the entire early childhood continuum because we know um we have um birth to three programs. We have preschool programs and this will allow us to have valid and reliable data um that will point out that will give us information on strengths needs. Um it will allow us to identify where resources may need to go. Um, it will allow us to determine if additional community supports may be necessary in the years prior to the students coming into kindergarten so that when they enter kindergarten they will be um where they need to be um to um address the
034appropriate kindergarten standards that they'll be facing. So I'm not following. So my child is entering kindergarten and so he's given this assessment when? Within the first 90 days of being in kindergarten. Correct. Okay. So within that first 90 days of being in kindergarten. And then now you're going to go get the resources after you they determine it. They're already he's already in that class. Now you're going to go out and get resources and have the data. that's going to no the the the the advantage of having a standardized test is it will give us statewide data to make broader decisions. What this information will give the individual teacher are the strength and need areas of the child when he or she enters the classroom. And why can't these teachers from Hawaii who knows our students
035create the standardized test for our state? Why do we have to go to John Hopkins? They're the best ones in the classrooms. I I'll I'll let um Lauren um take that question. Um my name is Lauren Pedeski. I'm the early childhood specialists at the Office of Curriculum and Instructional Design. Um let me rephrase to make sure I understood your question. Why a standardized tool instead of creating one within the state? Correct. Yes. The teachers who are the ones that are working with these students and have many of them in the testimony that I read, some of them worked for 20 years at this level and they're the best ones to be able to assess the students. The teachers certainly are experts in what they're teaching. Um, anecdotally, many of our teachers are assessing children on
036kindergarten level content that they're also going to teach. The advantage of the tool in our mind is that it's going to provide us with some information about prerequisite skills that some children may not have yet mastered and are not being uniformly assessed in our school system yet. Consequently, we have children that are experiencing cycles of difficulties that could potentially be identified very early in order to provide timely interventions and prevent difficulties later. Those prerequisite skills, particularly in literacy and language, are very critical. And if we can have a really strong identifier that's uniform across the state, it helps us to be able to potentially identify where we can strengthen our entire school force. I I still see how and I'm not going to beat this too much longer, but how you're going to take this
037one assessment 90 days when the kid is in kindergarten and that's going to prevent all this stuff from happening because I know already these students are being assessed by the teachers and they pre can tell what some of those problems are. Now, I don't know how that one-time assessment is going to help across the state. Um and if they can come up with a standardized for across the state and they can utilize it. But then when they go to first grade, second grade, what happens then? Are you going to keep assessing them? They are assessed in their universal screeners in their content areas as well as their social emotional learning. But they're not given a standardized test, right? When they get to first grade, second grade, third grade. Do you mean like a first grade
038entry assessment? No, I'm I'm saying like this kindergarten assessment, are you assessing them every single year? They continue to be assessed on their mathematics. That's not the question. The question is, are they getting to receive that same kind of statewide John Hopkins assessment so you can track their progress as you stated every year? I'm not sure I understand what the purpose that would be. The purpose would be how why would we validate this one time assessment when it's not going to be consistent? because the cost of a million dollars every year, how do you justify that? I mean, you know, we only have so much money in the school system and I would like to see that money actually go to help those students that really need the help. But we spend so much time
039getting data and then it sits there and we do nothing with it. And thank you, Senator, for the question. Um, I I think too if I can take a moment to expand on what what Lauren had shared. Um, as as we assess the students say in the first year of the assessment, we'll get some standardized um authentic data that we can use to for that first year's cohort, right? To see where they're as they come into kindergarten, perhaps where some of the needs are as they as they're coming in. Uh subsequently in um subsequent years, we'll also be able to gather data on the students who are coming into kindergarten and um using that statewide looking at the data. Um and I I totally understand what you're saying. We we do need to take action
040on that data, not just collecting data for the sake of collecting data, but look really analyzing what the data is telling us. And from there, um, what trends, perhaps some, um, growth areas that we can share, um, with our early learning partners, as well as, um, how we might take a look at that data moving forward to, um, to provide perhaps professional development um, or other uh, conversations with our kindergarten teachers to help build um, an array of strategies that our our teachers can help our students with. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Favlla. The reason why um I have hard time understanding is because um when I went to school and my daughter went school, the people that did the assessment and observation was their teachers. Never changed when I was there at school
041um until now. Even now, and then now we're getting these standardized testing for for kindergarten. And then how I know this is because when my daughter went to kindergarten, they know who went to preschool or early education. They had all these data on the kids on whatever um questionnaire that the parents submitted to the school. Did their kid go to preschool, early education or daycare or whatever. So they know how the kid uh interact with other kids. So I just give him one hard time because um you know our our teachers are going to school for early education and part of maybe the early education is to observe and monitor the kids on their what they needs and what they're what their needs or not having needs um going forward. But um I I feel
042like what Senator Kim is saying is that we're going to spend this one year probably every year and then we got to monitor them or upkeep them. um for for the progress of um having these children. Shouldn't we be investing in the teachers or the education of the teachers that is going to early education to have a little bit more maybe in their curriculum? You can tell the colleges to to implement some of these things instead of having a benefit of using the teachers that you know not nowadays the teachers do teach what the subject that they're teaching and their uh um grade that they're teaching. Not like when I was going to school my PE teacher is teaching PE but he's an English teacher. Those things um changed. So now we specifying that the
043teachers are in their proper area of education and teaching whatever subject they're teaching. But then now we're going say okay and now we're going to have another of them in the first 90 days we're going to have them assessed by this assessment. But I remember when my daughter went to uh second grade within 30 days um the teacher already had assessed my daughter's needs, weaknesses and strengths. So when we had our parent teachers meeting, they would give us an assessment of my daughter's education. What is she weaknesses or what is her strengths and what we can do to help her succeed in moving on? And that was in every grade. That wasn't just kindergarten. That was throughout her whole elementary right through high school. Um because we tried to get her assessed when she was
044young. um because we thought she had a um learning uh uh problem. But then the teacher realized that she uh she learns different. So it wasn't so much that she needed special education in the early elementary years, but they had said that she had enough that she just learned it learned differently. Now we never have none of this. We relied on the principles, relied on the teachers and we took the investment of their time implement this with with our children. So now because I'm getting a lot of um almost 90 something to 100 um opposition to this um to this bill because of the mixed feeling with the Hawaiian community and and people saying okay now we're going to assess our kids at this one. So it it it's to me um having one standardized
045testing um for the um kindergarten kids and stuff like that. I think we should trust in our education system and the teachers and the people that's educating our kids there and not something that's going to cost us a million dollars. Thank you very much Senator Fabilla for the question. Um the so the uh the assessments that are done by teachers to support students as as um teachers identify for individual students what their needs are and what their strengths are and how to help support them um are are done teacher toteer, right? You know, and and um each teacher uses their individual uh repertoire strategies to help assess students and then help them move forth. What we're uh for this bill, what we're proposing is that um as students enter kindergarten, if we can have a
046uniform assessment of um both in English and one designed uh for Kauni students um by Kauni educators um and Kauni community members um that will give us across the system uh data and a look of where students students are entering kindergarten not only by individual classes but statewide uniform. Yeah. So as they enter kindergarten, some of the struggles students may have, some of the common struggles across the system um as well as strengths and it would then enable us in the department um to help support them to identify uh areas of need and provide uh the necessary supports and articulation and have teachers talk and collaborate uh to help identify strategies to help support the students. So it across the system it'll help us I think um get better as well as individually as you
047shared with individual teachers um helping students within their respective classrooms. What's this? This is the problem that right now the Hawaiian the charter schools are having because they put a lot of effort in their abilities to assess and work with individual kids in their way. And then we're going to have a standardized test. Same thing with Senator Kim. Don't get me wrong, I would wish that we teach Hawaiian in all the schools from kindergarten to high to to college, whatever. But again, they're now what about the kids that speak Filipino or they have um problems in in speaking English. Um you know what I mean? So you guys don't do standardized. The reason why I say this is because even when I was going to school, we had the kids in my class that had
048trouble speaking with going to a separate class doing so much part of the day to work on their curriculum. So the schools have the ability, the principles, the teachers and people within the school system, the system have the ability to do this um assessments um with with the kids. Um I I just think it to myself, we're taking it to a level that how we going to standardize everything, which sometimes is good, but sometimes I think um is not good. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Senator Kuha. Thank you, chair. Um, I just kind of question this one. Um, especially since you said, you know, you're here to gather data, you know, on how best to support the students. Do you need a bill to gather that data on how best to
049support the students in the Kauni um schools? You can't Couldn't you do that already? Um, I know the standard I get the standardized part of that and I don't know if I completely agree with that specific thing, but you know like for myself like I'm I'm I'm trying to look at where why we need to you know move this forward when you could already do a lot of this stuff already. Correct. uh we can individually center. Yes. And then gather the data from the individual teachers and the different schools and the the um the type of Thank you for the question, Senator Ko. The um the we can gather individual assessments from individual schools. Um however, those assessments that are designed by teachers individually uh would be difficult to aggregate because they're not the same
050assessment system. Yeah. No, I get it because I mean even the kids starting off in kindergarten too, right? You know, 90 days for them to learn. Um, a lot of them come into the schools not knowing the Hawaiian language and learn, you know, completely learning. A lot of them don't go to like uh pre- immersion uh preschools. So, everybody's going to be completely different, you know, and that 90 days of still continuing to learn and figure a whole bunch of things out. I don't know. It just seems like by that standardized 90 days, you know, the the data might be a little skewed um because everybody, you know, there's so many kids that coming to kindergarten not knowing anything, right, of Hawaii language. I'm just wondering if that's the right I mean to completely standardize
051it it if you're going to get the right correct data that you need. That's my question. Thank you. you have anything you want to add for the senator's question. I would say that we are definitely confident that if we undertook a rigorous process with the KY community that we would get the data that we need and that they need in a way that is very sensitive to the uniqueness of the community and that is important because common goalposts like we've talked about I think throughout our conversations today are critical and being able to have a common understanding from school site to school site um what constitutes that entry expectation is very important and can be a leveling the playing field for students by ensuring that we define what we expect in a common way so
052that all children can be successful from the start and aren't potentially negatively positioned by differing expectations from sight to sight. No, I I definitely get where you going with this. just it just seems like there's some kind of disconnect between what you actually want to do and like what all the testimony that we've been getting you know the the hundreds of testimony that um Senator Pavilla spoke about earlier I don't know if there's really that collaboration going on in that understanding but there might be I mean I'm just I don't know I haven't reached out to them all those that did uh testify in opposition and I definitely will I think one of the testifiers was Kilo Immora and somebody that I want to talk story with to see um why she opposed it even
053though it's kind of laid out a little bit in the testimony. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Chair. Go ahead. Um thank you. So I I think I'm struggling like Senator Kuha is um and also stated by um Senator Pavlla. Okay, we gather data. We gather data that sits on the shelf, but okay, then what? So what's the followup? We're going to have data, but then what? And so that's why I'm struggling with this. And I'm, you know, like Senator Kuha was talking about this data can be gathered, at least started to show what it's going to be bringing to us. And so I'm I'm a little puzzled why it's here. I'm listening and I think I understand what your intent is, but I don't see the the followup and then what we're going to do
054with this data. So that's why I'm trying to get my arms around that. Um thank you senator for the question. Um the the data that we'll be gathering um will be used to definitely will be analyzing and actionoriented. So definitely will be one area. Um and also to use that data to inform and to share with our uh early education partners um perhaps uh where some of the need is the the ability for us to look across our system and to identify need for our students I think is one of the the one of the strengths that will allow us to support our students in moving forward once they enter kindergarten. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, chair. Thank you. Thank you. So, superintendent, the board of education at I guess it's December meeting or something required that
055required this. Is this their mandate? Um the the board Yes. Senator the uh Okay. So, are they already are one? Yeah. Hello, senators. My name is Kyle Sang. I'm the director of the Office of Hawai Education um reporting directly to the superintendent. Um in the December 15th meeting, the Department of Education made a recommendation to the board based on um the ask out of act 10 to develop um and administer a uniform assessment for kindergarten ready kindergarten readiness for all students in the department of education. in its October meeting, October or November meeting, they approved the use of the John's Hopkins University assessment for our English language students. Um and in its December 15th meeting, they approved the recommendation for the development the identification of um standards for our Hawaiian language immersion students and the
056development of an assessment tool that would be used for a kindergarten ready assessment written assess assessment for those kei coming into PayPun schools. And so sort of two different strokes um happening here. one um sort of this set aside the John's Hopkins tool uh to be used for all of our English students um coming into kindergarten and then uh tool that would be developed and designed by the community um including our teachers um and our stakeholders in the community uh for our Hawaiian language immersion program students. All of these these two assessments are going to be tools that would be used to um address the ask out of act 210 um relative to uh administering a uniform kindergarten readiness assessment. So the um assessment for kindergarteners other than the Hawaiian immersion are already happening or
057that has not been done yet. Is this going to be done all at the same time? No. The um so the English well act 210 asks the department to administer to start the administration of a kindergarten readiness assessment in the fall of 2023 and so it's not prepared yet. No, we're in the current we're in the process of procuring for the English assessment the John's Hopkins tool. So this bill is to include a Hawaiian immersion version and I I think correct is that correct? So I think a lot of the complaints that were you know emails we're getting is maybe that uh the audience does not understand that there is there was already a requirement to do the kindergarten entry assessment. Correct. Okay. So I guess as to Senator Kim's question, why John Hopkins and
058are you using John Hopkins for the Hawaiian immersion version also? Um I my understanding is that the John's Hopkins tool um for the English program was selected after a review of tools that met um the requirements of act 210 to be able to address the five domains that are listed in in the law um for the Hawaiian language um assessment tool because there isn't something that is available to the department to be able to administer readily in fall of 2023. We are asking for an amendment to the law to make time uh to be able to convene community in a process in a rigorous process to then develop a tool by the community for the community that can be used um uh beyond its final phase of preparation. Okay. So what if the student or
059parent refuses to do the assessment? I'm going to defer to that. Yeah, I know it is. But but can just sit there and not say anything if they, you know, I'm just saying how how do you do, especially a kindergartener, if they decide you're asking them too many questions, they're not going to talk. currently um senator I don't believe we we have an opt out process but definitely that um can be considered yeah we could offer an opt out process for the for the parent okay and I think the department should make it clear that this is not just a Hawaiian immersion assessment that it's going to be done by all uh kindergarteners all those entering into kindergarten Um so is this kindergarten assessment a national trend? Is this being required of many schools on
060the Thank you. Um it is definitely a national trend um and mixed in terms of whether states develop internally or whether they use um an externally creative tool. So, um, the John's Hopkins tool is used by multiple states including Ohio and Indiana and South Carolina and Maryland. Um, several other states have created their own assessments on often a smaller scale is what we've noticed. Um, something that stood out to us for the JHU tool in particular is that it is 50% observational items. So, it's purely observing the children as they are. And you mentioned earlier, you alluded to the fact that children are who they are, particularly in kindergarten. So, as a former kindergarten teacher, thinking about assessments that are actually developmentally appropriate, we look for flexibility while still remaining faithful to the content itself
061and ensuring that it's not one setting in order to do that assessment. So that was actually something that we saw as a limitation in many of the tools that were created and in use on the continent is they were often assumed to be in one sitting and didn't rely on observation as a um as an as an assessment tool. So that's what drove our decision towards that John's Hopkins University tool in particular. But we did have a national scan conducted um by Dr. GG Weisenfeld in order to make that determination and identify what other states were using the large majority do have a KBA. Thank you. So um being in Hawaii and all the different uh nationalities that we have and there are um other children in school besides Hawaiian children who may not um
062have English as their first language. Um, does that I guess what I'm asking is the John John's Hopkins um assessment is it something you guys do verbatim or it's just telling you how to do it and the teacher does it depending on who the student is. Right. I mean using pigeon or whatever it is it means you right right. So we certainly would not be looking for uniformity in language responses. Um in the performance items there are some where a child might not speak at all and would just indicate a response and that would be a valid response. Um the JHU also provides us with professional development supports for the teachers to actually administer and that includes allowable supports for students whose first language is not English so that teachers can be less biased in
063their assessment of children and be able to understand areas where they might need to provide an additional support or may actually need to not score that item because it's not yet accessible for the child. Thank you. And then going back to one of Senator Kim's questions is um so you do this in kindergarten. When do you do it again to see how uh well or not so well the child has advanced? When I talk about that I describe it in terms of taking your child to the pediatrician. Um so it's a developmental screener. Uh when we take our kids to the pediatrician, they don't get the age four screener again when they turn five, even if they weren't able to hop on one foot yet. We do the age five. So it's normed against developmental
064and agebased norms as well as the content items for the math and literacy, which makes the scores complex. That's why there's multiple domain scores. So if we were to give the exact same items again at the end of the school year, they wouldn't be developmental expectations for that child anymore. So what we're trying to do internally is develop a system for understanding, particularly relative to the content items for literacy and math, what other kindergarten level assessments we already have in place that we can then start to compare. it wouldn't be an item for item match, but there um the assessment itself has been shown in previous states to be a valid and reliable predictor of students third grade literacy and mass outcomes. So, we are pretty confident that we would be able to develop internally
065a way for measuring those academic outcomes across time with this as a starting point. Okay, I think you've really answered my question. Um I'm trying to think what how does this assessment help the child, the parent, the school um in the future years to to look at to look back at what they did and what you thought that they needed help with and did they get that help? Is this done again in the third grade to review that? That's what I'm asking. Right. So that would not be a valid use of a developmental screener um because the children have aged three years. It would have to be another developmental screener norm to third grade ages and stages to do a direct analysis. Yeah, I get that. I get that. But again, so so what are
066you what are you measuring it against? I mean, why are you measuring it if you're not going to see how they're doing in two or three years? I don't know if you understand currently that um once the we administer the kindergarten entry assessment. Um we we don't have I don't I don't believe that we have a a other than the current screeners that we have another developmental screener anywhere else. That's and that's I think that's your question and that's the trend. I mean you don't need to do one. Is that what you're saying? Is that what John Hopkins can say? Is that what I don't know. I'm just asking. The parents are probably going to wonder the same thing. That's why. Right. So I think I'm misunderstanding your question. Do do you mind restating it
067for me? I'm I want to know if you're doing this test, what's the purpose? Are you going to measure them against something else later on that they should be at or after kindergarten? you know before the year ends have they developed to where they should be if they didn't have normal development normals so to speak that's what I'm asking so you're asking what what the gains are right how will we know whether students have made gains or not based on the field I don't believe at this point senator that we do we have it in another developmental screener uh that that would measure uh we do have other screeners ers um academic as well as social emotional screeners. But I think what we need to do is to see if um how we correlate how
068we can correlate those those two screeners. So that's that's a very good question that you asked. Yeah. No, I'm just wondering nationally is there's something else that is done. So are we doing it and then in a couple years you guys are going to ask us to do something else with these kindergarten oh assessments? No. Typically nationally the purpose is to identify um where children start and then growth is documented in a variety of ways both formal and informal. Um many states use it as a predictor of later literacy and math outcomes on other standardized assessments. Um here we are being asked to also provide that data back to our early childhood partners so that they have a sense um of where our students enter so that we can collaborate around what needs to be
069done to report. So it seems this assessment is more geared for the the broader um health of the students versus the individual students because you're saying you're going to grab this data and that data can be shared with the pre kindergartens and the early education to look at what can be done and superintendent you said that it doesn't be allowed to create programs and and whatever for statewide, right? Those seems like all this broad kind of thing that you're going to do the data. I Yes, senator. Thank you um for that for giving me the opportunity to clarify. Yes, it it is broad. I believe also though that uh the the more specific may be where in in say in a school that has kindergarten teachers being that the assessment is a common assessment um
070schools can then schools and complexes can take a look at their respective data of of their classroom um and have based on what they're seeing uh teachers within a school for example can collaborate on what might be some of the effective strategies that they can um yeah but you can do that now within your schools. You can have the uniform now and you can gather data now and again the thing is if we had all the money in the world what would we want right I mean and you don't have all the money in the world and and you're not required at this point to um give us a uh priorities like okay what's the most important on the list and where would this land because you come to the legislature and you guys ask
071for everything you know and hope that you guys get something. But my big thing is when you work on that big block picture, how long is it going to take you to then take this data and then create a program think wide and get the resource and everything take three four years sometimes for you guys to do something like that or if it even happens and you come in for money, you come in for legislation, there's other priorities and so I'm just saying that uh you know you're making good arguments why you want this or why it's needed but the practic practicality of it and having been around as I have as long as I have. I see the practicality that is not necessarily there. You know, everybody wants data. I mean, we got HTA
072spending millions of dollars on data data. They take the data before the visitor even gets here. I mean, and we've been doing that for 70 years, but nobody really assess, you know, what are the consequences and what are the intended results? What do we actually get and how is it utilized? By the time you guys institute some of these programs like the prisons have determined that we needed like an O triple C now they're saying oh that's not the right model you know years later after that whatever data they got then is no longer current because the whole sentiment of the country has changed and similarly these kinds of assessments the students change so quickly now with the entrance of pre kindergarten I'm sure it's going to change because pre kindergarten is going to certainly
073change some of these students entering into kindergarten. So your your assessments is not even going to be current after the 2023 once kindergarten starts that whole those all the students in there. It's going to change the whole assessment of you know so you're not going to be able to do something standardized across the state. It's going to be outdated the 2022 assessment. Anyway, that's my sense. Thank you. Members, further questions? If not, thank you. Thank you. Recess. Yes. Resuming the committee on education meeting. The U committee has deliberated and the recommendation is for Senate Bill 106 to pass with amendments. The amendments are technical and nonsubstantive. for Senate Bill 414. Recommendation of the committee. Oh, I'm sorry. It's overhead. If we have to vote, I guess we will. Recommends passing. So, Senate Bill 106 pass
074with amendments. Chair votes eye. Chair votes eye on passage of Senate Bill 106 with amendments. Vice chair votes I. Senator Kuha I. Senator Richards I. Senator Favlla I. Four five eyes. Recommendations adopted. Thank you members. And for Senate Bill 414 and Senate Bill 481, recommendation of the committee is to defer. Meeting adjourned