001one good afternoon thank you for joining us for our committee on education and actually we are starting out with a joint hearing with the committee on higher education also it's wednesday february 10th through conference room 229 this meeting including the audio and video of remote participants is being streamed live on youtube you will find links to viewing options for all senate meetings on the live and on demand video page of the legislature's website the zoom meeting and youtube live stream event will include the three o'clock pm joint agenda for the committee on education and the committee on higher education the 302 pm decision making agenda for the committee on education and the 305 pm agenda for the committee on education in the unlikely event that we have to abruptly end this hearing due to major
002technical difficulties the committees will reconvene to discuss an outstanding any outstanding business at friday february 12 3 o'clock p.m any public notice will be posted on the legislature's website i'd like to take this time to remind our testifiers that due to time restrictions on our hearings we will be limiting testimony to one minute per testifier per bill for the people participating remotely all testifier audio will be muted and video disabled until shortly before it is your turn to testify when i call your name staff will unmute you and your time will begin after your minute is completed staff will mute you so that we can move this hearing along in an orderly and efficient manner thank you starting with senate bill 245 on our three o'clock agenda joint meeting with committee on education and committee
003on higher education relating to education requires the department of education's existing free application for federal student aid also known as fafsa working group to create a state plan to make completion of the fafsa or an up opt-out waiver a statewide graduation requirement requirement by the 2023-2024 school year requires a report to the 2022 legislature to testify terry ushijima assistant superintendent department of education please good afternoon cherokee dhani vice chairman carlo kim and members of the committee interior interim assistant superintendent with the department of education testifying on behalf of superintendent christina kishimoto the department stands on our written testimony and provides comments to senate bill 245 while we agree that there is much merit in completing the fafsa as it provides an important resource for families to afford college we respectfully know that the department has
004concerns about making fafsa a graduation uh requirement along with the possible opt-out option as for this as stated in the reasons in our testimony our state has performed above the national average for the fastest completion rate over the past three years and we are committed to continue to promote the fafsa completion within the department and with education partners to provide additional support to students to increase the number of completions thank you for the opportunity to testify the department is available for questions thank you terry members questions another question senator keith agaron yeah i'm just curious in the text of the proposed bill it cites that the goal for the department is 90 and you've been hovering at about 60 but your testimony said that the numbers are actually quite much lower and doesn't mention any
005goal of fafsa completion does the department have 90 percent goal yes it's an internal goal and we continue to strive to get 90 but um we have not reached 90 percent what about the 60 that is cited in in the bill are you at 60 or are you at the 37 or so that isn't a testimony um that's where we are currently at this point in january and so we still have till the rest of june to get the completion rate for this year for 2020 our completion rate was 60.2 percent that was above the average rate of 55.6 and the highest completion rate so far amongst the states has been 78.7 percent well if you have an internal goal of 90 then with the caveats are in this bill about dealing with some of
006the issues that are brought up by yourselves and other testifiers what's wrong with with pursuing what's what's called for this bill so we agree that the fafsa is very important and we would like to encourage as many students and parents to complete that as possible we are concerned if it becomes the graduation requirement as or even with an opt-out option as the fafsa um it's the parents must complete it and there are other possible concerns that we are worried about for example um you know some of the messaging that may go out may may indicate that college or allude that college might be the only option whereas it is a very viable option that we would like students to have and we want them to have opportunities but it's not the only only option so
007why do you have a 90 internal goal then we have we think it's important for all our students who have options and if they choose to go to college then this is a possible way to help with the financial aspect of that opportunity okay well you didn't answer my question so why are you at 90 as an internal goal if you have all these concerns about sending out the wrong message um we the the message is having it as a graduation requirement we we want to continue to strive for that 90 percent goal however the you're saying is that college isn't for everybody and there are other things to make someone um you know a good graduate and a contributing member of our community why are you setting the goal of 90 for fafsa because
008fafsa is basically for people that are aiming to go to college uh it's a very aspirational goal and we would like students to have whatever options they choose whatever opportunities they seek and depending on their aspirations all right whatever thank you thank you chair thank you members further questions if not we're going to recess to deliberate on this bill recess the senate committee in education and higher education were reconvening committee meeting on senate bill number after the discussion the senate committee and education chair was is recommending that we pass out senate bill five as is members questions if not chair votes eye cheerful tie on center bill 245 uh uh vice chair hold side senator de la cruz all right senator hi voting an affirmative recommendation for doctors thank you for the committee on higher
009ed same recommendation to pass senate bill 245 amended chair vote sign chair kim votes eye manager donnie votes aye senator keith agaron senator wakai excuse senator favela measures adopted madam chair thank you very much and hearing for the higher education committee thank you this meeting is adjourned and we are going next agenda for decision making this is decision making only for senate bill 7-6 proposed sd1 relating to education the proposed sd1 requires that the board of education prioritize for the superintendent of education position candidates that have a minimum qualification of 10 years of employment in a department of education with at least five of those years serving in the capacity as a principal or hire and a desired qualification for a candidate is having a working understanding of the state's tri-level system of educational administration
010again this is uh decision making only members questions again seven senate bill 76 proposed sd1 relating to education recommendation is to pass with amendments and we will insert the proposed draft and recommit this bill back to this committee on education members questions if not thank you um she has a vote yep okay so so no questions on senate bill 76 chair votes eye okay so the chair votes eye on senate bill 76 this is a short form bill that is being amended to put in the proposed language correct and then recommend correct i uh vice chair vote tyson dela cruz all right thank you that adjourned that hearing now we are on the 305 agenda committee on education to hear senate bill 815 relating to education funding establishes the maintenance of effort provisions establishes a
011public education stabilization trust fund makes appropriations okay to testify catherine payne oops i'm on the right one here catherine payne chair person board of education catherine please aloha chair kidani vice chair kim and members of the committee the board of education supports the intent of sb 815 which would establish a maintenance of effort provision for public education and establish a public school stabilization fund we support proposed legislation that preserves funding and resources for student learning at the classroom level including our most vulnerable students who are economically disadvantaged english learners or receiving special education services we support establishing a minimum level of funding for public education or a funding floor which would provide much needed funding stability and predictability the rest of my testimony is in written form and was submitted to your committee i'll be
012available if you have questions thank you members questions if not moving on the next testifier is superintendent christina kishimoto dr kishimoto please aloha chair kidani vice chairman cardo kim and members of the committee this legislation is sb 815 i stand the strong support of it this legislation is of utmost importance in solidifying hawaii's commitment to equity and empowerment for all public school students a school learner our school leaders rely on adequate and predictable funding to provide innovative learning opportunities stable funding will provide our schools the security they need to implement programs as students needs and aspirations evolve without the worry of budget cuts and the need to decrease offerings a hawaii maintenance of effort commitment will ensure educational funding remains constant from year to year providing for comprehensive student supports and preventing drastic educational inequities
013among students the enactment of this legislation will ensure high quality public education system that is supported and funded by our state with adequacy equity predictability and stability thank you dr kishimoto members questions hearing no questions we're moving on to our next testifier corey rosenly president hawaii state teachers association corey please thank you chair kadani hsta supports sb 815 but we do suggest amendments the first part we do like we have seen the proportion of the amount of the dua's budget decrease from 20 uh 23.1 percent in fiscal year 2014 to 19.7 percent in fiscal year 23. that represents if we had kept at the same proportion 234 million dollars less in the proportional funding the one part that we were asking for an amendment for is that what we've seen is from year to year
014the education budget does go up except for in economic downturns and this bill currently allows for the governor to waive that if we truly want to keep the education budget steady then there should not be an ability to waive it even during economic downturns and we're asking that the senate committee delete section 302 a which would ask for temporary suspension of the moe thank you thank you members questions if none moving on to our next testifier tom yamachika tax foundation of hawaii tom thank you thank you chair members tom yamachika from the tax foundation um we understand and appreciate the intent behind this measure but i think the the practical reality is uh that new legislature can bind another one so whatever you say whatever you enact can be undone by any subsequent legislature uh
015the same way so um the there are technical concerns with the current measure is drafted i've gone over some of those my testimony uh so i think those should be addressed and um i'd be happy to answer any questions uh thank you very much for the opportunity thank you tom members questions if not the next testifier shari nakamura for hey coalition sherry please hello kidani vice chair kim and members of the committee my name is sherry nakamura director of a coalition we would like to comment on hp 611 um it fully supports the concept of a long-term stable funding for public education we have comments on the public education stabilization fund proposal we suggest that rob has been calculating a year and year difference of the entire state education allocation the comparison be narrowed to
01680 and 100 school-based budgeting and edn 150 special education funding the reason is we want to stabilize funds where it impacts students the most which is in the classroom in addition we are not comfortable with a special fund in which the doe would have full discretion without transparency and accountability the two tenants for which the coalition consistently advocates and i apologize uh i said the incorrect bill number uh it's sb um 518. good one right 815. thank you thank you sherry members questions there are no other uh testifiers with oral testimony at this time um it's we have written testimony from um department budget and finance is someone here is cranky rye someone here from budget and finance i have some questions senator the only hero department of budget finance and robert do you come
017to the department of legion fine guidance thank you neil and robert so my questions for budget and finance is that if this bill were to pass how would budget and finance implement the transfer of the funds well we believe this essentially is an appropriation so we require an appropriation from the legislature we don't think we have the or the governor has general authority to do that because according to the constitution you know we can only spend money pursuing two appropriations thank you and then so what does the transfer of funds to the trust fund mean for overall state finances well you know uh senator as i'm not a general policy where we do not support dedication of general fund revenue sources to specific uses that's our position we we think the president in the present
018uh procedures for uh budgeting where the you know the administration and the legislature cannot assess statewide requirements and use all of the general fund resources as necessary to meet that uh given the circumstances that we're facing that would be the most appropriate thing so you know we're not supportive of that aspect of this bill well i guess i sort of disagree because we have other departments that get general funds you know through their programs etc so which is set aside so we can disagree on that were you consulted by the department of education as to this bill and the funding mechanism of this bill i don't believe so i'm sorry i could not hear i don't believe so okay so so should this bill pass or do you perceive that other department programs may not
019get the sufficient funding or there may be delays in payroll or other obligations our concern is whenever you carve out general whenever you take out general funds from that pot there's less money to go around for everybody else so you know we could have problems in other areas because if you take out a source of funding to use exclusively for the department of education then that there's that much less money for the rest of the programs thank you for that members do any of you have questions for the uh budget and finance senator kim so right now the only dedicated funding uh we have is hta is that correct and that money comes out of the transit um visitor tax yeah but uh as you recall senator that allocation to convention center and tat preceded
020the you know the money coming to the general fund i think right so that's the only is there any other dedicated funding not that i i there may be but i don't think so often okay uh so according to this bill you said that the only way you can expend is by an appropriation so the legislature has to every year appropriate money into the fund well yeah well i i for sure out of the fund i think you would have to do we would have to consult the ag's office about moving money into the fund okay so how would that money be moved into the fund we will after we let's talk with the ag's office about if this language works okay because i guess i'm not clear either so if it's every year can
021that if that fund if that amount changes it would change by statute how would it change as as we read the bill you know the bond would vary between the budget and whatever so the differences between the budget so it's not like a constant amount so the so the amount would change so but then is that we would have to the legislature would have to determine that amount it's the difference between the current year appropriation and the previous year's appropriation just reading the bill and the difference of that is put into the to the trust fund it seems like it so the difference between the last year's appropriation and the current year appropriation is that what you're saying um i think that's what the bill is saying that the state appropriation to the department for
022the current fiscal year are less than the receiving fiscal year the difference between the preceding fiscal year appropriation and the current fiscal year appropriation shall be deposited to the trust fund um that's what that's the wording in the world so brexit only the difference is put into the trust fund okay i'm not clear either because if it's only the difference in the trust fund then that's not enough money to uh okay thank you members any further questions of budget and finance if not if the board of education chair pain is still available i have a question for her thank you chair yes i'm here um if this bill should pass how does the board plan on holding the department of education accountable for the uses of the trust fund well that senator is one of
023the reasons that i said that we support the intent there are some questions that came up in our legislative committee concerning that just the lack of clarity because we couldn't find other examples and we felt that we would hear more clarity as the bill moved forward but certainly any expenditures of the department of education need to go through the board as part of the budget so that would be an expectation i appreciate that share pain but i do know that in listening to some of the past board meetings in your finance and infrastructure committee for instance recently where the chair and i forget the other committee with that chair also had deferred um hearing moving on certain things to the general business meeting because the superintendent did not have answers for the board but the
024chairs of those committees were overruled anyway and you chose to hear those uh you know the issues in the general business meeting which to me took the authority away from from the chair so i have some reservations um on that and would like to know exactly as we move this bill along how the board is going to hold the ue accountable for use of trust fund so i just wanted to put you on on notice on that that i would like that something more definitive right now the bill does not require any reporting on the expenditures of funds any reporting to the the board of education so this is why um you know we're going to not know how do he is spending the money and this is not okay with me and i'm sure
025it's not okay with the legislature if we don't have a clear understanding of that so um do you believe that the bill should be amended to require reporting to the board on expenditures or require board approval i think i think senator that that is what we would expect so if you put that in the bill that that would not have any objection from the board um and as i said earlier there is a lack of clear understanding on the board about exactly what this trust fund would entail but whatever it is we think that transparency and spending is is very important and we do want to have that information come to the board thank you chair members do any of you have questions of chair payne board of education if not thank you is superintendent
026still online i have some questions for the superintendent also thank you chirping hello i'm on thank you superintendent what could the due spend the trust fund allocations on the trust fund it sounds like from the way the language is written in the bill is directed back to the core education mission of the of the doe and so it's it's for for our core work the language in the bill seems to reflect that the intention is that the trust fund is not needed if the if the doe receives flat or increased base funding and the trust fund is a safeguard if that base funding is not held flat or harmless year over year and and so i don't think the trust fund would as the bill was written would ever need to be funded if in
027fact the intention of the bill is is carried out which is to ensure that there is a base funding that is fully funded year over year at some minimum level thank you as the bill is currently written would the doe be restricted in any way on what the trust fund proceeds could be used for well i think the the trust the language in the bill could always be amended to be clearer about it but based on current board policy the any funds that the administration is budgeting for for our schools for our organizational for offer the tri-level goes to the board of ed for the purpose of delivering on the mission of teaching and learning and so the trust fund would be limited to our core mission and the policies already in place by the
028board of ed the board of ed can also add to its policies if their trust fund was created that's another safeguard or way of clarifying or the bill itself can have added language about the restrictions of that trust fund but as it reads right now it would still have to adhere to the policies that are in place on how expenditures occurred in the in the doe those are reported on on a regular basis and it goes through the board for approval before i can spend those okay so if the legislature decided to cut positions or programs and i'm this is how i'm reading this this bill the salaries in program funding could be replaced by the trust fund so yes yes so the trust fund is is basically a proxy for general funds so then
029the due could re-establish positions and programs even though the legislature cut them the intent is to as the language reads is to provide predictability and stability for planning of educational programs year over year with an understanding that there's a commitment to a base based budget okay but you didn't answer my question superintendent so am i this is how i'm reading it that even if the legislature were to cut positions and programs you could still reinstate them by using the trust fund to fund this we would still have a budget that goes through the the board of education and falls under those policies so you're saying then the board would have to approve the use of the funds the board should be approving the use of all of our funds yes true but i will tell
030you the same thing the same thing i said to the chair pain um you know some of the last meetings that i've listened to of the board when asked how you were going to spend esser funds there was no real clear answers so this is why i have some reservations about this bill and i just want you you to know that i think that right now i'm not seeing the uh authority of the board expressed in their meetings when it comes to deciding on how you know funds are being used at the doe members i don't have any more questions of the department but senator kim has questions thank you superintendent so what would happen in subsequent years should the decline of population happen and there's a decline in enrollment in all public schools and
031i know we've talked about closing down schools in the past because of lack of enrollment so in that sense if shouldn't that budget again reflect um when you say stabilization that reflects that and so there would no there would be a reduction so thank you senator there is language in the bill uh that speaks to the three-year average and looking at that there would be an adjustment to that base uh fund based on that enrollment decline looking at the enrollment drop over three years the idea is to have it over several years time because we have up and downs you know one year to the other so the idea is to have a point in time that makes sense if you see a uh decline in enrollment over a three year period then there should
032be an adjustment down just like if there's an uptick in that enrollment over that three-year period we should be adjusting upward as well okay thank you members any more questions for the department of education thank you if not that's all we have for senate bill 815 and we will now move on to our senate bill 816 relating to a state lottery creates a state lottery to begin by january 1st 2022 creates the state lottery commission state lottery account and lottery administration account requires certain amounts of lottery revenues to be to be deposited into the administrative account general fund and special funds for university facilities and operations and public school operations to testify catherine payne chair of the board of education catherine please i'm sorry i'm on the wrong way sorry sorry sorry catherine uh i'm
033sorry to testify brian hallett assistant superintendent department of education all right good afternoon sir kadani vice chair makato kim the department stands on his written testimony with comments thank you members questions next to testify catherine awakuni colon department of consumer and commerce and consumer affairs thank you good afternoon chair kidani vice chairman karu kim members of the committee kat iwakuni colon on behalf of the department of commerce and consumer affairs the department stands on its written testimony respectfully opposing um there are a couple of reasons why we believe it's still a bit premature given that the state lottery task force has not completed an examination of the creation of a and the sustainability of a state lottery and then sort of noting the inconsistency with our um overall departmental mission i'd be happy to answer
034any questions that you may have thank you for the opportunity to testify thank you members questions of director columbus if not moving on to trisha nakamatsu deputy prosecuting attorney trisha please hi senator they are not present i'm sorry i didn't hear your name not president oh they're not they're not present okay thank you philip johnson honolulu police department uh good afternoon chair and the honolulu police department we stand also on our written testimony and opposition be happy to answer any questions you may have for me thank you phillip tax foundation of hawaii uh thank you chair tom yamachika for tax foundation uh we've submitted written testimony with uh studies cited in in we'd be happy to answer any question thank you tom members questions okay we don't have any further oral testimony but we do
035have several written testimonies um members questions of any of our testifiers do i have a question for hpd favela please yes sir yeah so how do you guys concern on this joke um several concerns um as cited in a lot of the studies and the testimony i've read and other research lotteries throughout the country tend to be um the highest users are the poorest people minorities and those with the least amount of money which lead to a lot of social problems um connected with lottery and gambling so that's that's pretty much thank you yes sir members further questions if not that concludes our testimony on this measure and we are going into recess for discussion now we are reconvening the committee on education to deliberate on senate bill 815 and 816 for senate bill 815
036recommendation of the chair is to pass with i don't have voting sheets pass with amendments clarifying that the amount deposited into the stabilization trust fund shall only apply to reductions to direct school funding sources such as edn 100 and 600 as as requested by hey also clarifying that the department of education shall make an appropriate allocation from the stabilization trust fund to edn 600 to ensure that any reductions in edn 600 are appropriately compensated in the same way as edn 100 clarifying on page four that the difference in state appropriations between fiscal years that shall be deposited into the stabilization trust fund shall only occur in deficit years and not surplus years requiring budget and finance to produce a report on general excise tax revenues diverted from the general fund to the stabilization trust fund
037and the impact that diversion had on other state departments and operations also for the boe to approve and the department of education to report on any dollars spent from the stabilization trust fund and then further to defect the date to july 1 members questions on the amendments if not recommendation is to pass with amendments chair boat's eye trevor tsai on senate bill 815 with amendments vice chair votes with reservations senator de la cruz all right senator favela okay um five four eyes one with reservation recommendations adopted thank you for senate bill 816 relating to a state lottery recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments pushing back the start date of the lottery to january 1 2023 to allow the commission and task force more time to set up the lottery structure members questions
038if not recommendation is passed with amendments chair votes eye chair votes on senate bill 1 6 says amendments uh vice chair votes no senator de la cruz all right okay four eyes one no um recommendations adopted thank you members this concludes our meeting you