001Calling the joint hearing of HHS Health and Human Services and Labor and Technology. With me is my co-chair Senator Elefante and Senator Lamasao and hopefully we'll have the other soon. Okay, first up our meeting is being streamed live on YouTube in the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business later on Friday, March 27th, 2026 at 1:00 p.m. room 225. A public notice will be posted on the legislature's website. To facilitate this hearing in a timely manner, we will be enforcing a 1-minute Anybody who's done HHS know I do 1-minute limit of testimony. I will be reading a list of individuals who submitted written testimony for each measure. We apologize if the closed captioning does not accurately transcribe the names. If
002you're interested in reviewing the written testimony, please go to the legislature's website. You'll find a link on the status page for the measure. We appreciate your understanding. We remind you that the committee does have your testimony. We will review them, so I encourage you to use your time to either add additional comments or you can stand on your written testimony. I do note that in um the EDU HHS following this joint that we may have uh American Sign Language interpreter. In which case we will allow for more than 1 minute because I want the testifiers to testify slow enough for the ASL interpreter. [clears throat] Okay, but otherwise um 1 minute. HB 1541 relating to Department of Health. First up we have for 1541 Okay, I'm just I'm just going to I don't have it.
003For 1541, when you find it it is First up, we have Department of Health in support. How about that? Hi chair. Vice chairs. Um my name's Courtney Matsu, Deputy Director of Behavioral Health Administration um testifying in strong support of this bill to um exempt certain positions in DDD and um HSH from civil service um due to the nature of these entities um and the uniqueness of the positions, uh we respectfully ask for these um positions to be exempt. Um each position requires the training, experience, and knowledge that are very specific and cannot be appropriately recruited for or compensated under the current structure of the civil services um system. Um both DDD and HSH serve very vulnerable populations and um that's why we're looking for this exemption. Okay, thank you very much. Next we have HGEA
004in opposition. Chair uh Vice Chair. Uh Nui Seabass for HGEA. We submitted testimony in opposition to this measure um exempt employees. They're at They're considered at will by the state. They don't go through any merit-based hiring. And furthermore, um we've seen a significant increase in the use of exempt positions in state government over the past 6 years. There's been 600 positions or 25% increase. This not only undermines our civil service system, but this measure itself further legitimizes um an attempt by a department to work around DHRD and the civil service hiring process. Furthermore, um while I'm not accusing this department of it, um with this increase more of our members in our union have less rights, which impacts our ability to advocate for our members. Um and we can we consider that union busting. We're
005happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Next up we have Aloha Independent Living Hawaii in support. Next we have Annette Tashiro in support. Anybody Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 1541? Members, any questions? Okay, um co-chair. Yeah, question for DOH, please. Thank you. And thank you for taking the time to meet with me on on this measure. I know this is a priority for the department, um but I have a few questions as it relates You heard some some of the testimony from HGEA with um some of these positions. Um currently now are these positions What is the total amount of the positions and is it currently funded in our budget? Yes, the positions are all currently funded. Um I believe we have uh a total of 11 positions
006that we are requesting. Okay. Thank you for that. And then for some of the positions, have you worked with perhaps maybe some other agencies in terms of security or other agencies that you could that you could work with and share responsibilities rather than having to create new positions? Yes, we we did look into it um because the at HSH it's an acute care facility 24/7 and um the patients are um uh the the security and and the protections that are needed for them are very specific and the training required of the security personnel um have to be trauma focused and um more patient related than what would normally be occurring um on the outside. Um so for that matter, at least right now we feel that uh we would really want to pursue this exempt
007position status, um but we are um for future purposes long-term would look at um possibly um uh moving them to civil service in the future. Okay, and then the last question I have Uh-huh. chair is specifically Thank you, doctor, for answering these questions. Um last question I have is um how did DOH come up with this? Was this a result of something or what what's what's the reason for wanting these positions? So particularly for the the security positions and um for investigators, you know um we we did have an unfortunate event um that occurred a couple years ago and um this is the result of that um in our efforts to try to um really provide quality care for our patients and ensure that everybody's safe and sound. >> from from looking at from the
008report um to just ensure that we can continue to do a good job. Okay, thank you, Dr. Matsu. Thank you, chair. Okay, thank you. Any questions? Two two things. Oh. No, actually you go first and I'll jump in in case you might ask my question already. So go ahead. Well, I have questions for you and and HGEA. Okay, my understanding from that prior incident was um with your predecessor uh Marion Sooji. I I asked about the possibility of ACOs from PSD. And my understanding was there was discussions were made and it wasn't a good fit. Was that your understanding too and that's the reason why you folks are uh attempting to hire own security rather than using Yes, and and you know, I think the um we're more treatment focused at our facility and so
009in that regard there's slight differences in the training that's needed. Okay, even though it's a forensic psychiatric Yes. Mhm. which are criminal defendants, right? Yes. Okay, thank you. And I have a question [clears throat] for HGEA. And then you can ask Yeah, yeah, you can go first. Okay, thank you. Okay. Um HGEA there is nothing preventing you folks from unionizing these exempt people, right? So um Nui Seabass for HGEA. Um these employees would at least some of them would I believe be part of our union already. So >> So there will be union protections for them and if they choose to join the union, you you you you're not going to close your doors on them, right? Uh so if I can maybe just clarify maybe um so exempt employees, although they're part of our
010union, um we cannot grieve um disciplinary actions. So if they were to get suspended or terminated >> at will. But other than the grievance procedure They are entitled to many of the other rights and benefits of the CBA if they're part of our union. Okay, thank you. And you have a question This is super fast. Um okay to to Department of Health, but Okay. >> Department of Health, real fast. Um the positions have been funded for a while, but you haven't been able to fill them. Why not? If you Is it because of the descriptions from DHRD? Is it the price classifications which have been brought up by HGEA? We we haven't been able to establish them um Yeah, right because of because of the types of experience and training needed, you we it doesn't
011cleanly fit into what is Could you not go to DHRD and and get a re-description and also ask for them to increase the pay for these positions as well? It it would be a totally new category, I believe, because well, if we're kind of restricted by what is currently in those different classifications. >> Yeah, exactly. But I guess some some departments are going to DHR to rededescribe positions and ask for an increase in the position to address the fact that they're vacant and they can't hire anybody. These have been vacant for a long time. >> Joy Can Joy help answer the question? Cuz I see her She's waiting to answer. >> to answer. >> Come on up, Joy. Come on up. Because my my understanding is the the the bottleneck is at DHR in the
012reclassification. And because of the overcrowding of Hawaii State Hospital and the incidents, they need these positions filled sooner rather than later. Yes. Okay, but then Oh, no. I I was just I was just going to say that that's sort of in Dr. Motta's testimony when she spoke to long-term potentially being able to move these positions over to civil service. That's kind of the idea is that that would buy us being able to exempt these positions now and would allow us to recruit and hire now while we're able to work with DHR in however long that process takes to be able to establish those new classes if that's the direction that the department and DHR choose to go. If DHR were gone and you had your own HR department, would this problem exist or not? Yes
013or no? Ask our HR guy. >> [laughter] >> They're not going to go against that. Well, I think I already know my answer by then. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, any other questions on 1541? Okay, moving on. HB 2315 relating to state employee benefits. First up, we have Department of Health in support. They're just walking away. Somebody else. Okay. Uh hi chair, vice chair, uh committee members. My name is Bobby Robinson. I'm the DHRO of the Department of Health. Uh and I'm here to uh testify in strong support of this bill. Okay, and you're resting your written testimony. >> Yes. Thank you very much. Okay, next we have UPW in support. Tamakana Kaimuloa. Okay, UPW is not here. Kaunawai Sabas, HHA. Yeah, uh HHA will pass. Thank
014you very much. Keith DeMello, Workforce Development Council in support. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 2315? Members, any questions? Okay, none. Now to LBT. Okay, thank you, Madam Co-Chair. Our next item and our last item on our agenda is House Bill 1782, House Draft 3. This is relating to artificial intelligence for the protection of minors. First up on our list of registered testifiers is Rajee Tolentino, DCCA. Or representative. And followed by the Attorney General's office. Aloha, welcome. Hi. Good afternoon, chairs, vice chair, members of the committees. I'm Rajee Tolentino with the Office of Consumer Protection. Um I'd like to comment on the data minimization language in the bill. Um we agree that data minimization is an important issue, but we think it is it may be better addressed outside of this measure. >> [clears
015throat] >> Privacy laws and laws regulating chatbot behavior are related, but they're really trying to do two different things. Privacy laws generally deal with what information um a business can collect, keep, or use. Um this bill, by contrast, focuses on how these systems interact with minors and how to reduce the risk of harm for from these interactions. Putting both these issues into one bill may create confusion for businesses, regulators, and enforcement agencies like our office. In our view, it'd be cleaner to keep this bill focused on protections of for minors. So, if this bill um passes um or moves forward, we respectfully ask that the data minimization provisions be removed. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Rajee. Um Ashlee Tanaka, Deputy Attorney General. Aloha, welcome. Good afternoon, chairs, vice chair, members of the committee. Ashlee Tanaka,
016Deputy Attorney General. We did submit written testimony providing comments just regarding two areas of the bill. One regarding the use of the phrase material risk as it appears in two sections with suggested amendments, as well as we suggested adding a severability provision towards the end of the bill. Available for questions. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Uh Tia Hartsock, Office of Wellness and Resilience. Okay, standing on testimony support. Thank you. Jai Jai Jesima? Did I say that correctly? On Zoom. I'm sorry if I got that wrong. No problem. Uh my name's uh Jai Jesima. Chair and members of the committee, I'm testifying in support of House Bill 1782. I'm the founder of Transparency Coalition. We're independent nonprofit, which advocates for increased transparency and accountability in generative AI. I have 30 years of tech industry experience as
017a CEO and executive in multiple AI technology companies and have a PhD from University of Washington. Uh we've been working with lawmakers in over 20 states that have already uh that are in the process of passing laws very similar to House Bill 1782. Uh and um I'm also very pleased to report that yesterday the governor of Washington signed a bill very similar to 1782 into law. Uh since we only have a minute, I'm just going to hit a few themes that we are really excited about. One is the requirements for transparency and disclosure in the bill. The prohibitions on emotional manipulation of minors. The requirements that chatbot developers implement a protocol for responding to suicidal ideation. The requirements to provide parental controls. On the topic of enforcement, I just want to highlight the importance of
018the private right of action. It's an important regulatory tool and in my Thank you, Jai. We do have your written testimony. I'm sorry. Thank you. Okay, next up is Dave Erdman from the Retail Merchants of Hawaii. Good afternoon. Aloha. Aloha. Aloha, chair, vice chair, committee members. My name is Dave Erdman from the Retail Merchants of Hawaii. We appreciate the intent of HB 1782, HD3, to protect minors. We respectfully request continued continued clarity uh that routine retail customer service AI tools are not unintentionally captured as they are task specific and um not designed to create emotional relationships. Mahalo for the opportunity to testify. Okay, thank you, Dave. Okay, next up is Mike Tobin on Zoom. Aloha, welcome. >> Aloha, chairs and members of the committee. My name is Mick Tobin. I am 23 years old and
019the co-founder of the Young People's Alliance, a youth-led bipartisan organization representing 2,800 students across 72 campuses nationally. YPA strongly supports HB 1782 and I recently traveled to Honolulu 2 weeks ago to testify in support of it in the House in person. This bill limits manipulative design techniques that foster emotional dependence or romantic relationships, sets clear definitions that don't exempt big tech companies from accountability, and allows families to hold chatbot companies accountable through private right of action. These are all protections that are also included in Washington's AI bill that Jai mentioned, which was signed into law yesterday. I urge you all to preserve these core elements of HB 1782 and to not allow proposed amendments to strip or narrow these provisions as weakening these core protections would fail to protect Hawaii's keiki and families and signal
020to other states that weaker standards are acceptable. Big tech has slowed social media regulation for years at the expense of my generation's mental health. They're likely trying to do the same with AI chatbots nationally now and maybe with those amendments to HB 1782. Um HB 1782 has already passed the House uh three committees in the House and I urge you to please pass it here as well. Please stand for Hawaii's keiki and families, not big tech. Thank you. Thank you, Mick, and I'm sorry for um mispronouncing your name earlier. Uh next up is Brenna Lesser. Hi, um my name is Brenna Lesser. I serve as tech policy advisor for Common Sense Media and I'm testifying in support of the measure. Our research found that 72% of teens have already used AI companions with 30% preferring
021to engage with AI companions as more or more than humans. Our testing also found that these bots have encouraged teens to drop out of school, run away from home, and use drugs. They've also reinforced reinforced psychosis psychosis and delusions and shared instructions for making napalm. Recent research also found that eight in 10 AI chatbots were regularly willing to assist users in planning violent attacks, including school shootings, religious bombings, and high-profile assassinations. A narrow focus on self-harm and sexual outputs would miss these. Disclosures and mental health redirects are useful floors, but they are not enough. Guardrails [snorts] that perform well in internal testing are known to break down in longer real-life conversations and do nothing to prevent the exploitative relationships that lead to harm. The requirements in HB 1782 will constrain innovation. They'll prevent the full
022proliferation of these harmful products. I urge your support. Thank you. Okay, next up is Iain Corby, Executive Director for Age Verification Providers Association on Zoom. Uh good off Hello, everybody. Um I'm Iain Corby, as you said. Uh we've done over a billion age checks globally um using a variety of different methods and I'm here to answer your questions really about the ability to do online age verification completely anonymously uh using zero-knowledge proofs. Sometimes the checks are done entirely on your own device. Um we also have the ability to do interruptible age checks. So, having proven your age once for one purpose, you can use it for multiple other purposes. I think it's important that the operators remain accountable for this. We can't just rely on, for example, app store age checks because people do access
023AI through multiple different channels, not just through an app store. Um we have an international standard ISO 27566 that this the technology can be certified to to make sure we can be confident that it protects your data security and your privacy. Um and we are innovating all the time. One thing I like about the bill is it's it's technically neutral. It allows us to use multiple methods like how you move your fingers, facial age estimation, or just resorting to a piece of ID. Thank you. Thank you so much. And the other person that's registered testify is Breanna Harman in support on Zoom. Not present, chair. Okay, thank you. That completes the list of registered testifiers. Anyone else on House Bill 1718, House Draft 3? Okay, if not, members, any questions? Okay. Um maybe we could
024see with decision-making. >> Yeah, you can we'll wait to see if we can get a quorum. If not, then we will roll over to another to a one of our other gents, but you can go ahead. Yes, because we have um EDU next. Okay, thank you. We have we have we have quorum. You have quorum, good. So, for um decision-making for 1541, HB 1541, chair's recommendation is to move this along pass with a defective date a different effective date of January 1, 2050. Um I urge um HTA to give us proposed language to move these exempt positions to civil service, hopefully by conference. Uh because we we do see the need for it. Um other than that, pass with amendments, any comments, questions, concerns? I'll leave it on this one because of the waiver. I
025understand. Any comments other than comments other than Other than the waiver. the waiver. Okay, seeing none, vice chair, put the vote. Chair votes aye. First time first time for everything, right? Okay, recommendation on 1541 House Draft 2 is a Senate Draft 1. Um let's see, noting the uh presence of all members except for Senator Keohokalole. Are there any EWRS besides myself or none? Seeing none, your recommendation has been adopted. Okay, thank you. For for the Committee on Labor and Technology, same recommendation as HHS to pass with amendments. Any further discussion? If not, uh Vice Chair Llamaso for the vote, chair votes aye. Okay, members, we're voting on HB 1541 HD2. Recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments uh noting the excused absence of Senator Ihara and also Moriwaki. Senator Moriwaki. Anyone present wanting
026to vote with reservations or no? Hearing none, chair, your measure is adopted. Thank you. So, for HB 2315, chair's recommendation is to pass with only one amendment and that is to change the defective date into an effective date of upon approval. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, vice chair, put the vote. Chair votes aye. This is 2315. 2315. Yes. Okay. All righty. Anyway, go. Uh okay, recommendation on 2315 House Draft 1 is a Senate Draft uh noting the excused members Moriwaki. Any other EWRS or no? Seeing none, recommendation has been adopted. Okay, for the Committee on Labor and Technology, same recommendation as HHS to pass with amendments. Any further discussion? If not, Vice Chair Llamaso for the vote, chair votes aye. For the same measure, um anyone present um from uh Labor and Technology wanting
027to vote with reservations or no? Hearing none, chair, your recommendation is adopted. >> Okay, thank you. And our last item on our agenda is House Bill 1782, House Draft 3. This is relating to artificial intelligence for the protection of minors. Recommendation here is to pass with amendments. We're going to accept and adopt the proposed amendments from the Department of Commerce and Consumer Protection. Um we're also going to accept and adopt the proposed amendments from the Attorney General's office in their testimony. Uh we're going to accept and adopt the proposed amendments from Charter Communications. We're also going to accept and adopt the proposed amendments from CTIA, which is the following. Um that's contained in their testimony, I should say. And then we're also going to uh defect a date to January 1st, 2077. And that's it.
028Any further discussion, comments, questions, or concerns? Oh, uh We just lost quorum. Um on our end. Okay. Okay, so um Well, we we deferred decision-making for LBT till Yes. For so for for this one, for the Committee on Labor and Technology, let's see if you I don't think Okay. Well, for this one, I know there's another committee after this. What we're going to do is we're going to roll over Oh, we are not going to roll over. Thank you, chair. Yeah. We now have quorum. Thank you, Senator Favela. Okay. Thank you, chair. I just read uh Senator Favela, would you like me to reread the proposed amendments? >> [laughter] >> Okay, so I just read them um out. Um so, basically uh we're going to just pass it accepting those amendments as I just previously
029shared and then defecting uh the date to January 1st, 2077. Any further discussion, comments, or concerns? Okay, if not, Vice Chair Llamaso for the vote, chair votes aye. Okay, members, we're voting on HB 1782 HD3. Recommendation of the chair is to pass with amendments. Anyone present wanting to vote with reservations or no? Hearing none, chair, your recommendation is adopted. So, for HHS, same recommendation, pass with amendments. Vice Chair for the vote, chair votes aye. >> 1782 House Draft 3 is a Senate Draft 1 noting the presence of all members. Are there any EWRS besides myself or no? Seeing none, recommendation is adopted. Thank you very much and um that joint hearing is adjourned, but we are still rolling over to the EDU HHS hearing next. Thank you, chair. Thank you. I know. 14 minutes. Yep,
030go ahead. [laughter] Go ahead. Go, it's all you, Donna. It's all you. Go. Go ahead. I I I don't think we need to um do another countdown, do we? Wait. Okay, please proceed. EDU. Okay. 1574 we're on the agenda. >> Okay, are we on or Yes, you're on. >> But we have to start No, not according to it. We're we're we're on. >> Okay. So, welcome everyone. We are on the Committee on Education jointly with the Committee on Health and Human Services. Uh we are on the 1:10 agenda. It is 1:24 in room um 225. Uh today is March 25th, Wednesday. First item on the agenda is House Bill 1574 relating to health care education loan repayment program. Formally codifies the health care education loan repayment program. Requires a participant in the health care education
031loan repayment program who receives a new award on or after July 1, 2027 to remain and work in the state for certain number of years based on the amount of financial assistance received. First item First person of um to testify is uh Lee Weng Concepcion Lum. Aloha. Aloha, chair, vice chair, and committee members. Lee Weng Concepcion Lum, associate dean for academic affairs at JABSOM, here to stand on our support. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? We have Apollo Done for John or Jack Lewin. Hi. You're not Apollo. >> [laughter] >> Good Good afternoon. I'm Terry Vespers on behalf of Dr. Jack Lewin with the Shidler. Uh we'd like to stand on strongly on our testimony with this. Thank you. Thank you. Um McKenna Woodward. Aloha, chair, vice chair, and members of the committees. McKenna Woodward
032on behalf of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs will stand on our written testimony and support today. Mahalo. Thank you. Jonathan Ching for Kaiser Permanente in support. Not here. Uh let's see, we had plenty people that sent in testimonies, all in support, none opposing. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure whose name I didn't call. Hearing none, members, we are open to questions. None. Any questions? Hearing no questions, okay, we are moving on to House Bill 1894, House Draft 1. This requires Department of Education to include instruction of Braille and provision of Braille instructional material under certain circumstances, provide Braille literacy support services coop in cooperative with the Department of Human Services when requested to submit information necessary to maintain a register of blind in the state. I believe we've had a Senate bill that
033that we heard. This is the companion bill. Starting with Keith Hayashi testifying for DOE. Aloha. Aloha, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. Kenneth Uogarden on behalf of the Department of Education, we stand on our written testimony in support of this measure. Thank you. James Gaskell for National Federation of Blind of Hawaii. Yeah, hi chair, vice chair, and uh members of the committee, I'm just going to stand on my written testimony for National Federation of Blind of Hawaii and uh thanking the Department of Education and other supporters for their help on this bill. Thank Thank you. Uh Donald Sakamoto on Zoom. Donald. Hello uh chairs uh vice chairs uh vice chairs, this is Donald Sakamoto. I would like to support the bill. Uh uh read uh on my testimony. You know, what I represent
034there, named Terrence Tom back in the days. He was a student and he was able to read write and Braille. So, this is very important for our students right now. So, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, Representative, he used to he used to be my neighbor in the house. >> Yeah. He used [clears throat] to chase me around his desk. >> [laughter] >> Good memories. Eric Mitchell on Zoom. Not present, chair. Okay. Uh Virgil Send Senate. Also on Zoom. Also not present, chair. Okay, anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? You know, I just got to say this, I remember Terrence Tom, he used to carry his little Yeah. typewriter so for Braille typewriter and you could always hear him. And I he was amazing, so. And he is. Yeah, and he had all
035the bills. >> And he could still sing. Yes, and he played the piano and sang. Amazing person. >> amazing. Anyway, okay, anyone else wishing to testify? Non-members, any questions? Hearing no questions, moving right on to our final measure, jointly, House Bill 2159, House Draft 2, relating to healthcare workforce development. And this establishes positions and appropriate funds to the University of Hawaii to support healthcare workforce development in the state. We have Paula Donne. Uh Paula Donne, good morning, good afternoon. Chairs, hi. I'm Terry Vespers for Dr. Jack Lewin, administrator for Shipto. We'd like to stand strongly on our our written testimony for support. Thank you. Thank you. Samuel Shoemaker. University of Hawaii. Aloha chairs, vice chairs, members. Sam Shoemaker, Dean of JABSOM. I will stand in support on my written testimony and be happy to answer
036any questions. Thank you very much. Rachel Wilkinson. Good afternoon, chairs, vice chair, and members of the committees. Rachel Wilkinson on behalf of the Hawaii Association of Health Plans, and we'll stand on our written testimony in support. Thank you. Corey Sanders. Person not here. We had 21 sending in support. Anyone else wishing to testify on House Bill 2159? Hearing none, members, any questions? No questions. Okay, no questions. Uh we'll go right into decision-making. >> [laughter] >> I can roll it over to you. Okay. So, the recommendation by both chairs is that on House Bill 1574 relating to the education loan repayment program, that we defect the if defective date to July 1, 2020 2055 July July 31st, 2055. And um No other amendments. They came for eight. Oh, okay, very good. And the recommendation for EDU,
037House Bill 1574, House Draft 2, to amend to an SD1 with an effective date of July 31, 2020 2055. Uh any questions? Any discussion? Hearing none, chair aye. Thank you. And for House Bill 1894, this is the Braille instructional material. Recommendation is to defect the date also to July 31, 2055. It already has a blank appropriation in it, and any any non-substantive amendments for clarity and consistency. Any discussion? Hearing none, chair votes aye. Thank you. For House Bill 2159, this is relating to the healthcare workforce development. Recommendation is to defect the date to July 31, 2020 2055. It already contains blank number of FTE positions, and the money is also blanked out. Members, any questions? Any discussion? Hearing none, chair votes aye. And with that, we are adjourned pending AEM. Um good afternoon. We're calling
038the 1:40 calendar for the HHS calendar, Health Human Services, on Wednesday, March 25th. Present with me is my vice chair, Senator McKelvey, and also Senator Keohokalole. This meeting is being streamed live on YouTube. In the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business later at 1:00 p.m., Friday, March 27th, in Room 225, and a public notice will be posted on the legislator's website. To facilitate this hearing in a timely manner, we will be enforcing a lax what it's lax one one-minute limit on testimony. And it's lax because we have a American Sign Language interpreter. So, we request those who are testifying to enunciate. If, however, you can stand on your written testimony, please do so. Because we are also having another
039hearing after this. So, thank you very much. We appreciate your understanding. Remind you the committee does have your testimony. Apologize again if the closed captioning does not accurately transcribe the names. If you're interested in reading the written testimony, please go to legislator's website. You'll find the link on this standing page. First up, HB 469 relating to parking for disabled persons. First up, we have Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities, Daintry Bartoldus, in support. >> We'll stand on our testimony in support. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have DCAB, Disability and Communication Access Board, Christine Pagano, in support. Aloha chair and vice chair. I'm Brian McKeague on behalf of DCAB and executive director Christine Pagano in support of this bill. The purpose of this bill is to allow someone who only has one long-term placard and
040cannot or does not want to have special license plates to obtain a limited duration travel placard. This prevents the person from having to choose between using the their existing placard at their departure location or taking it with them for use at their destination. While people traveling for pleasure would benefit from this, it will be especially valuable for people who have to travel for medical treatment, including families with children. We have asked for a small amendment to clarify that someone with a long-term removable windshield placard or a disabled paid parking exemption permit is eligible for this travel placard as both of those permit key types are restricted to one placard currently. And to add provided though that this is contingent upon them not being issued special license plates. So, someone that has special license plate would
041not need a travel placard. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, again, be aware of the ASL. So, I understand that I have trained you folks to speak very fast, but because we have an ASL interpreter, please um enunciate and you can speak slower. Okay, thank you very much. Next, we have Aloha Independent Living Hawaii, in support. Okay, Hawaii Disability Rights Center, Louis Erteschik, in support. Standing on your written testimony. Thank you. Johnny Mae Perry, in support. Jackie Keefe, in support. Lila Moea, in support. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 469? Members, any questions? Okay, moving on. Next, we have HB 2488 relating to Disability and Communication Access Board. First up, we have Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities, Daintry Bartoldus, in support. We'll stand on our testimony in support. Thank you. Thank you
042very much. Again, DCAB, in support. This is your bill. Come on up. Yes, you can look directly to the ASL. Can someone interpret? We need someone who is interpreting ASL into English for the rest of us. >> Yes, we will be doing that. Go right ahead. I can see you. I [snorts] think I do see me clearly. And the interpreter is saying, "Yes." We need him a little bit closer for fingers. So, yes, perfect. >> to identify yourself even though we know who you are. Yes, hello. My name is Pono. I'm from Disability and Communication Access Board. I'm I'm representing Christine Pagano today. >> [snorts] >> So, we are here to stand in support of this bill This is and we will stand and we will stand on our written Sorry, and we will stand
043on our written testimony, but I I can't hear. Sorry, say again? The speaker The interpreter couldn't hear the speaker. Tokioka. That's okay. We know you're Pono Tokioka, so please proceed. Yes, this is Pono Tokioka. So I know he's Pono Tokioka, but we need the record to reflect he's Pono Tokioka. So, please proceed. I'm sorry, Pono. Please testify. Are you done? Are you standing on your written testimony? Pono? I did not mean to interrupt you, but we want to make sure everyone knows this is Yes, I am standing on my written testimony. Thank you. >> Can you hear the interpreter? Yes, thank you very much. Okay, standing on your written testimony. Next up, we have um Dr. Lewin Shipta in support. You're not Dr. Lewin. I am not Dr. Lewin. Good afternoon. I'm Terry Vesparus with
044Dr. Lewin and Minister Shipta. We stand in strong support of our written testimony. Thank you. Thank you very much. Louis Erteschik, Hawaii Disability Rights Center in support. Thank you very much. Eleanor McDonald, Deaf and Blind Task Force in support. Leland Brady, Aloha Independent Living Hawaii in support. Um Peter Fritz, are you present on Zoom? Please proceed. >> Yes, I am. I am present. Please proceed. You can't hear me? Yes. >> Okay. Um I'm Peter Fritz at a Deaf and Blind Task Force meeting. People described repeated communication failures at health care facilities. Not one person filed a formal grievance. That is a gap that this bill should also address. The legal framework framework already exists and if I need to slow down, please tell me. Um Hospitals are required to respond to grievances that are filed.
045A pattern of complaints can trigger a Health and Human Services HHS Office of Civil Rights Investigation OCR and that investigation can put federal funding at risk. Hospitals are aware and respond to this risk. My written testimony details a two-step process. File with the facility first and then file with the HHS OCR if it's unresolved. One grievance I filed changed how a hospital treated me on my very next admission. My testimony suggests using AI to break writer's block to help patient draft draft a formal complaint. Human assistance in drafting complaints is limited. AI is accessible now to anyone with a computer. The patient describes what happens. AI produces a formal letter produced on those facts. Thank you very much, Peter. We have your written testimony. It was very um very detailed as to what is needed.
046Thank you very much. Okay, next up, we have Johnny Mae Perry in support. Lila Muller in support. Anybody else wishing to testify in HB 2488. Members, any questions? Okay, moving on. HB 2009 relating to family caregiver support. First up, Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities. Deantry Bartolemez, please proceed. Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, committee members. Deantry Bartolemez, Executive Director for the Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities. >> Thank you. We have comments to make. When this bill first came out, we were really excited about it. However, we've learned that it's in the wrong place. You cannot add a another category to a federal law unless the state wants to pay for it 100%, but they don't think we do. We also have learned a lot about boards and working with different boards and we really
047feel that this bill we could combine with Department Human Services and HDRC. We could just get together and discuss this and talk about it. Um we facilitated a board called um Community Supports and this could fit perfectly in there and I think we could do that and collaborate and fix this. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Next, Louis Erteschik, Hawaii Disability Rights Center in support. Yes, thank you. Good afternoon, Senator. Yes, I want to talk about it. That's why I'm here, right? There's three distinct issues here. The The first one about the child The child care subsidy is a legitimate concern because I'm I think the intent is that if you're out of the house, you're working, you're in schools, they have somebody's got to watch your kid, but if you're a parent
048with a disability, you may be there, but you're not like fully there, right? And so you still need some care. So, it it's a legit issue, but I understand you can't use state dollars. So, we got to figure out some some something on that. The The assumption of parental ability is also a a legitimate issue. You can't say, "Well, you're the mother, you should do this." But it's like, "I'm disabled, I can't do it." They need to be able to address that. Then finally, those level of care assessments, we get these cases in our office all the time and it's not even just just in this area where this whole argument about you're not disabled enough to get the services, you don't need as much and we and our clients says, "Yes, I do." So,
049we got a lot to work on and and I I'm happy to dialogue with Meredith or or you guys or anybody else. >> Thank you very much. Okay, Young Hee Overly, Indivisible Hawaii in support. Hawaii Women Lawyers in support. Malia Suchia, Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks in support. Um Kona Indivisible and Matriarchy Rising in support. 21 individuals in support. Ryan Yamane, um Department of Human Services providing comments on Zoom. Department of Human Services? Not present, Chair. Okay, thank you very much. And anybody else wishing to testify in HB 2009. I would like to testify. >> questions? Okay, moving on. Excuse me, Chair, we have one on Zoom. Okay, please proceed for HB 2009. Hi there. I'm Ian Seeley. I'm um I helped to draft this bill. Uh Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee, I
050strongly support HB 2009. Right now, we have health plans that overlook the only question that really matters, whether a vulnerable person is actually receiving care. If you live with a disabled family member, health plans essentially say, "Congratulations. Quit your job because you are now an unpaid caregiver." DHS doesn't stop to consider the trap that they've set for these already low-income households. They're on Medicaid, we know this. They're They are demanding they perform full-time labor without pay and that leaves only two realistic options. Either you keep paying your bills and you watch your loved one enter costly nursing home care. Or you attempt to provide that unpaid care yourself and you eventually experience homelessness. That's That is the trap. This bill here disarms that trap. It forces the state to actually think, Okay, Ian "Can this
051person really really take care of that person?" Yes, thank you very much. Okay, anybody else wishing to testify in HB 2009. Members, any questions? Okay, seeing none, moving on. HB 2007 relating to household independent care services tax credit. First up, Hawaii Department of Taxation providing comments. Thank you very much. OHA, Office of Hawaiian Affairs in support. Hawaii Public Health Institute, Chris Colfield in support. And you can slow down because of the testimony. Okay, very good. Um >> Aloha. Chris Colfield from the Hawaii Public Health Institute. We're in strong support of this bill. As you know, child care has become exorbitantly expensive in the state of Hawaii. There have been studies that show that more than 20 Child care can cost more than $24,000 per year on infant care and in many cases over $2,700 per
052month. It's so that means that Hawaii families are spending 13 and 1/2% of their income on child care, which is the highest share in the country. This measure would be a tremendous boost for that. The skyrocketing cost of child care is an is a not just an economic issue, but a public health concern. As many of the issues that come before you are when taxpayers have to pay more for child care, then they cut back on a lot of other essential services. We would know that this is essentially a fix to Act 163 from 2023, which increased the amount that taxpayers could claim under the household independent care credit, but failed to increase the percentage of expenses that they could claim and didn't adjust the thresholds accordingly. So, it severely restricted its impact, but we're
053in strong support of this bill. We'd love to see you move it forward. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Next, we have Nicole Woo, Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks. Nicole, oh, you're present in person. Yes, every now and then I show up in person, Chair. Okay. Uh yeah, this is a strong priority bill for Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks. We care uh a lot about families that are struggling to afford to live here, especially with their child care needs. As Chris said from HiFi that uh the legislature and the governor, you all increased the amount that people could claim in this tax credit 3 years ago, but the percent cap is still there. So right now if you make over $50,000 a year, you can only claim 1 5 15% of your care
054expenses. So family making paying $10,000 for pre-K, which would be cheap, could only get a credit for $1,500 right now. Um this bill has been amended to actually target it better at lower income families and to make it a cheaper bill. Um so right now a family that makes up to $160,000 a year up to a family that makes up to $80,000 a year could claim half of their child care expenses. And then it goes down step by step until a family makes 160,000 and they claim 5% of their expenses. So this is a real targeted way to keep our working families here and thriving. >> much, Nicole. Okay, Devon Thomas, Hawaii Appleseed Center for Law and Economic Justice and Support. Thank you very much. Next we have Mike Wien, Aloha Care in Support. Mike,
055are you present on Zoom? Not present, Chair. Okay, next we have Audrey Suga Nakagawa, AARP in Support. Thank you. Jean Evans, AAUW in Support. Shauna Keohuhu Prince Kuhio Hawaii Hawaiian Civic Club in Support. Evette K. Conner, Indivisible and Matriarchy Rising in Support. Leilani Keali'i Ekipi in Support. Leilani, are you present on Zoom? Not present on Zoom, Chair. Okay, next we have 3 4 5 6 7 Um over 30 people all in support, nobody in opposition. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 2007? Okay, seeing none. Members, any questions? So let's make it over 20 cuz I didn't count. You rounded it off to 20. I rounded it off. Okay, mov- moving on. HB 1518 uh relating to supplemental nutri- nutrition assistance program. First up, we have Rye- Ryan Yamano, Department of Human Services providing comments.
056>> [music] >> Thank you. Uh DCR, Department of Cor- Corrections and Rehabilitations in Support. Good afternoon, Chair, Co-chair, committee members. My name is Kristie Okuyama and I'm from the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. I stand on written testimony submitted by Director Tommy Johnson in support of House Bill 1518. Um we have started our pilot program with Department of Human Services at two of our facilities, Waiawa Correctional Facility and Women's Community Correctional Center. Thank you. Thank you very much for that, Kristie. Christine Johnson, Hawaii Correctional System Oversight [clears throat] Commission in Support. Christine? Okay, Makena Woodward, Office of Hawaiian Affairs in Support. Benson Medina, County of Hawaii um Department of Research and Development in Support. Chris Coffey, Hawaii Pacific Health Institute in Support. Aloha again, Chris Coffey from the Hawaii Public Health Institute. We're in support
057of this bill. Our freedom should not begin without food. You have far too many people the first steps to re-enter are taken on an empty stomach. Uh this proposal would allow uh federal would authorize Hawaii to seek federal waiver, federal approval to allow inmates to apply for SNAP benefits before being released uh from incarcerated. And there are studies that show that 91% of individuals recently released from prison experience insecurity, food insecurity. And more than 1/3 uh report going an entire day without access to food. Uh giving eligible giving uh eligible individuals benefits immediately rather than forcing them to wait weeks uh to get food security would reduce a critical gap in access to food during re-entry, which is already a period that's associated with elevated homelessness, re-incarceration, and and mortality actually is is quite a
058spike during that period. Uh there are 13 states that already do this uh including states that are as varied as Louisiana and Kansas and Oregon and California. So if we want to prevent recidivism, then we must prevent hunger. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak. Thank you very much. Next we have Benny Lou Larson, Catholic Charities of Hawaii in Support. Okay, um Kat Brady, Community Alliance on Prisons in Support. Thank you. Nicole Woo, Hawaii Children's Action Network speaks in Support. Nicole? Daniella Spatola, Hawaii Appleseed in Support. Daniella? Come on up. Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, members of the committee. Daniella Spatola with Hawaii Appleseed in support of this bill. Um as others have already said, people returning home from incarceration face especially steep barriers. Um in particular, food insecurity is rampant among this
059newly released population with many reporting that they've gone an entire day without eating because they couldn't afford food. Um we would not be the first state to implement such a um a measure and um 13 other states have already implemented these waivers successfully. I also want to note that DHS would have um until January 1st, 2028 in this current version of the bill to implement this process, which would give them some ramp-up time for their new eligibility system. Um hopefully by then it'll be a little bit of a less of a barrier for them to get that program up and running. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, Mike Wien, Aloha Care in Support. Mike Wien, are you present? You don't look like Mike. No. Okay, nice. Thank you. Josh Frost, ACLU of Hawaii in
060Support. Josh? Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair. Oh, it's just the two of you now. Um Josh Frost, ACLU of Hawaii. You have our testimony um and you've heard lots of good reasons um why this bill is important. Um I wanted to highlight that um this is one of those rare instances where DCR and ACLU are actually on the same page. That alone I think should uh merit the bill's passage. Uh well yeah, [clears throat] I also wanted to highlight again the um the postdated uh effective date to give DHS time to continue uh with the best in improvements. Thank you. Thank you very much. Lauren Zerbol, Hawaii Food Industry Association. Lauren, are you present? Not present, Chair. No, that's oh, that's Hawaii Food Bank. Okay, Genevieve Muma, Hawaii Hunger Hunger Action Network in Support. Genevieve
061Muma, are you present on Zoom? Oh, you're present in person. Thank you. Megan Fox, Malama Kauai in Support. Elia Herman, Hawaii Food Bank. I see on Zoom. Please proceed. Oops. We stand on our written testimony. Thank you very much. Ann Frederick, uh Hawaii Alliance for Progressive Action in Support. Brandon Kinard. Uh oh, I'm sorry. She did not look like Ann Frederick. Okay, thank you. Yes, you do. Okay. Brandon Kinard, Hawaii Food and Policy Purple Mai'a Foundation in Support. Okay, Johnny May Perry in Support. Marcia Campbell in Support. 30 other individuals all in support. Um and only Shelby Pikachu, Billionaire Kingdom of Hawaiian Islands and Ohana Unity Party. Are you present on Zoom? Shelby? Not present, Chair. Okay, and Agricultural Steward of Hawaii, Amanda Shaw in Support. Anybody else wishing to testify on HB 1518? Members,
062any questions? Okay, seeing none. Moving on. HB 2208 relating to food security. First up, Benny Lou Larson, Catholic Charities of Hawaii. Thank you very much. Hawaii Department of Agriculture and Biosecurity in Support. Thank you very much. Um Director Yamane, DHS providing comments. Thank you very much. Benson Medina, County of Hawaii Department of Research and Development in Support. Kealoha Fox, City and County of Honolulu Office of Climate Change, Sustainability, and Resiliency in Support. Hawaii Children's Action Network speaks. Nicole Woo in Support. Hawaii Appleseed, Daniella Spatola in Support. Good afternoon again, Daniella Spatola with Hawaii Appleseed. We are in support of this bill. Um we love this bill because it um kind of solves three intertwined problems. So it uh the price of local food, we know that this is often out of reach for many local
063families struggling to afford food. Second, it provides an additional stable market for local farmers and a revenue stream um which will help us read our reach our doubling our local food production goals by 2030. And finally, it strengthens a critical but often overlooked supply chain, which is the emergency food system um and something that we have seen over and over again in recent years as the rate of climate disasters continue to increase. So we really encourage you to support this bill. Thank you. Okay, next we have um Lauren Zerbol, Hawaii Food Industry Association in Support. Lauren? Not present, Chair. >> on Zoom? No. Brian Miyamoto, um Hawaii's Farm Bureau in support via >> Brian Miyamoto on behalf of the Hawaii Farm Bureau will stand on our written testimony in support. Okay, thank you very much.
064Hunter Heavlin, Hawaii Farmers Union in support. And Frederick in support. Okay, for HAPA. And I the culture stewardship Hawaii Amanda Shaw, are you present on your present in person? Can you be Muma, Hawaii Hunger Action Network? In support. Local Food Coalition in support. Christopher Dean Clean the Pacific in support. Laurel Brier, Kauai Climate Action Coalition in support. Kapona Chong Hanson MD of AHA Hui Na Kau Kapa, Association of Native Hawaiian Physicians in support. Susan B. Roberts, Emily Green Party in support. 350 Hawaii Sherry in support. Ulupō Noa Initiative in support. Hawaii Primary Care Association in support. Ka Hono O Ka Kou Corporation in support. Prince Kuhio Hawaiian Civic Club in support. Okay, I see someone on Zoom. Please proceed. Identify yourself. Aloha, my name is Malia Konalia speaking on behalf of the Hawaii State Youth
065Commission in strong support. We stand on our written testimony but want to highlight that young people feel food insecurity directly in the classroom as difficulty concentrating and increased stress with effects that follow them well past graduation. Mahalo. Thank you very much. Gentle Farms Susan in support. Hawaii Food Bank Amy Miller in support. Carlin McFather, oh good. The Hawaii Food Bank should be online. Apologies. I didn't see them. They were there earlier with the testimony Oh, I see Hawaii Food Bank. Please proceed. Hi, aloha chair. Sorry, I have a toddler home sick so had to do this by Zoom. Thank you so much for the time. As you know, 32% of our households and secure including 100,000 Kiki. This bill is really a win-win for farmers and families. Food banks are able to serve as a
066purchaser of last resort. We can buy B grade product. We don't care what your our menu doesn't change. We're available to purchase whatever is there. So, we are a reliable source for farmers and then connecting households with healthy, nutritious, culturally relevant food that they might not have access to it otherwise. And you know, I just wanted to point out as well that most recently I think these Kona low storms are yet another example of how critical and fragile the system is. You know, this is again following by the followed following the federal shutdown and Farm to Families ensures that money is in the system to build food systems that are flexible for whatever comes and that we're equipped as as a state, as a community to take care of everyone and care for our ohana.
067Mahalo and thank you for your time. Hawaii Food and Policy Purple Ma'ia Foundation in support. Pacific Birth Collective in support. 75 other individuals in support. Maui Food Bank in support. Hawaii Health and Harm Reduction Center and Ogata in support. Debbie Zeisman as an individual providing comments. Okay, she was here before not regarding this. Vivian Hill, Hawaii Youth Food Council Climate for Future Forum. I think they will they provided testimony in support. Hawaii State Youth Commission Public Health Committee in support. Okay, um Kingdom of Hawaiian Islands Ohana Unity Party. Shelby Pikachu, are you present? Not present, chair. No. Food Basket in support. Anybody else? Nicholas Zare providing comments. Anybody else wishing to testify in HB 2208? Members, any questions? Okay, seeing none moving on. HB 2096. Relating to aggravated circumstances in child protective proceedings. First up,
068Judiciary Judge Medeiros. No, you're not Judge >> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, senator. I'm Andrew Park. I'm a family court judge and I'll stand on our written testimony in strong support of this Judiciary package bill and I'll be available for questions. Thank you. Brad Galbreath of Center for the Rights of Abused Children in support. Anybody else? Um testifying on HB 2096. Members, any questions? Can we proceed with the decision? >> to go to Dr. Gucci and let's go. Okay, so first up for HB 469 relating to parking for disabled persons. Chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. We're going to accept um DE CAT's proposed amendments. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, vice chair for the vote. Pass with amendments. >> Okay, recommendation is Senate draft one and noting the presence of yourself, myself, and
069Senator Kenuha. All others are being excused. Any WRs? No. Seeing none, recommendation adopted. For HB 2488, chair's recommendation is to pass with amendments. We're going to add number six for Peter Fitz's testimony to include instructions to a grieved patient on how to file a grievance. Okay, any comments, questions, concerns? Pass with amendments. Okay, recommendation 2488 HD2 is a Senate draft one noting the excused absence earlier. Any WRs? No. Number of members present. Seeing none, recommendation adopted. For HB 2009, we're going to pass with amendments. We're going to remove sections two to four and per disability DDC's recommendation, we are going to create a working group. Members are Department Human Services, Department of Health, DDC Council, Hawaii Disability Rights Council, member of the House, member of the Senate, and technical non-substantive amendments need for clarity and
070consistency. Already contains a blank defective date and a blank appropriation. Any Bad effective date, right? It's yeah, a defective date. Cool. Shaylynn. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, chair vice chair for the vote. >> Okay, 2009 HD2 is a Senate draft one of the members present. Any WRs? No. All others are being excused. Make recommendation adopted. For HB 2007, we're going to pass this with a defective date of January 1, 2050 and technical non-substantive amendments need for clarity and consistency. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, vice chair for the vote. >> Okay, recommendation 2007 HD3 is a Senate draft one of the members present. All others are being excused. Any WRs? No. Seeing none, recommendations adopted. For HB 1518, we're going to note that there's already a pilot program. So, we're going to pass this
071with amendments. We're going to change the effective date at the end of that pilot program which would be February 28, 2027. So, just changing the effective date to February 28, 2027. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, vice chair for the vote. >> Okay, recommendation 1518 House draft one is a Senate draft with a new effective date. All of the members present. Any WRs? No. All others are being excused. Seeing none, recommendation adopted. >> With a new effective date of February 28, 2027. Whatever you said. Whatever I said. Thank you. HB I'm just repeating your recommendation. That's all. HB 2208. Chair's recommendation is to pass this with amendments. We're going to just um change it to include an effective date of upon approval and we and an amendment of reports being required to be due prior
072to the fifth 2029 and 2030 session. Except for section two to be effective on July 1, 2028. Any comments, questions, concerns? Seeing none, vice chair for the vote. >> Okay, recommendation 2208 House draft one is a Senate draft with the members present. Any WRs? No. Seeing none, recommendation has been adopted. And for HB 2096, we're going to change this to pass with an effective date of upon approval. Any comments, questions, concerns? Pass with amendments. Chair votes aye. Recommendation 2096 HD2 is a Senate draft of the members present. Any WRs? No. All others are being excused. Seeing none, recommendations adopted. >> And with that, the HHS only calendar is adjourned. Aloha mai kakahiaka and good afternoon. Mahalo for joining today's AEN HHS EDT hearing. It's Wednesday, March 25th and we're convening in room 225 in video
073conferencing which includes the audio and video of remote participants. It's being streamed live on YouTube. In the unlikely event that this hearing is cut short, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Friday, March 25th at 3:01 p.m. in CR 224 during AEN's time slot. And because of our we're running a little bit late here, we'll be having a one-minute time limit for your testify your testimony. And there'll be a virtual countdown on the Zoom. So, we have one measure and that's HB 1618 HD1 establishing and appropriate funds for cesspool conversion. Revolving loan fund to be administered by the Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority to provide financial assistance, including low interest or forgivable loans to eligible eligible homeowners for the upgrade, conversion, or connection of cesspools. First up is Department of Health. Good afternoon,
074chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee. John Nagatsu, Department of Health. Uh the department stands on its written testimony uh in support of this bill. Thank you. Thank you. DLNR Kaleo Agsalog Not here in support. Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority, Gwen. I'm here. Thank you. US Fish Uh PUC, Johnny Tomiyama Good afternoon, chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee. Um we stand on written testimony in support of the Thank you. Mary Alice Evans with uh OPSD in support Kailoha Fox from City and County of Honolulu, Climate Change and Sustainability and Resiliency Aloha chairs, vice chairs, members of the committee. Kailoha Fox for the mayor's office of change, sustainability, and resiliency in the City and County of Honolulu's chief resilience officer. We stand in strong support of our written testimony. We're here for any questions. Mahalo. Thank
075you. Lindsay Garcia from Hawaii Realtors in support Ted Bohlen, Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition >> [clears throat] >> Thank you, chairs, vice chairs, members of the committees. Ted Bohlen on behalf of the Hawaii Reef and Ocean Coalition in strong support. I think everybody here knows that cesspool upgrades are very expensive. And this bill is about making it more affordable. We're going to need loans. We're going to need help to do this financially. And this bill would provide some through the Hawaii Green Infrastructure Authority. It's particularly targeted toward low and moderate-income people. I know that chairs of this committee have a lot of low-income people or low low-income people with cesspools in their districts. So, it's very important for these particular um districts to do so um to do the upgrades to pass this bill. Uh
076I would particularly note that um Hawaiian Paradise Park has a a number of cesspools that are affected by uh concentration of cesspools around their drinking water wells. So, there are people who are with some health issues that could come out of this. And it's very important for us to get those people loans. It's not about 2050. I know we've had discussion about it in the past whether we should move the mandate forward or back. There will be people who will need to upgrade in the meantime. And the other thing I wanted to add to my written testimony is we've seen this week that uh we've got the Kona storms and there's a lot of people walking around in waste that's from overflowing cesspools. So, cesspools really need to be upgraded, not just in 2050. Thank
077you very much. Next is uh Jessica Paisley from Wai. Stewart Aloha chairs, vice chairs, and committee members. Stewart Coleman uh from Wai. And um wanted to stand on [clears throat] our written testimony, but just add that um not only will this bill help low-income homeowners, but it will make us uh eligible for federal loans. Um and it will start with kind of revolving fund loans. And but once it's accessible, we can also um start to bring in grants to help low-income homeowners. So, it's really a win-win situation. Uh mahalo, and we'll be available for uh for questions. Thank you, Stewart. Mihoko Ito from the Hawaii Bankers Association on Zoom Not present, chair. Okay. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Chair Please. Aloha chairs, vice chairs, and members of the committees. My name is
078Hannah Lee Ziak, and I'm testifying on behalf of the Ocean Legislative Task Force in strong support of this measure. One of our core priorities this legislative session, and has been for many years, is cesspool conversion and wastewater management. We currently have over 83,000 unconverted cesspools in the state. And one of the largest barriers to this is cost. And I think that this measure would greatly help with that. I also wanted to mention one small recommendation for this measure that we kindly ask that the effective date be modified to effective upon approval by the governor so that the City and County of Honolulu can add funds immediately to fast-track um more cesspool conversions. Our task force represents over 150 individuals across over 20 organizations. And we thank you for hearing this measure. Mahalo. Thank you. Anyone
079else? Uh Department of Health Please come forward. I got a question. So, I think it's we all know the dire need for doing something about cesspools. And I think in uh you know, the cost for converting traditional septic or uh to septic or aerobic systems can be in the tens of thousands of dollars. So, in previous testimony on other cesspool bills that was brought up about innovative wastewater technologies that would be less costly. So, is DOH looking into any of those technologies with the aim of approving them or checking them out? Yes. Uh John Nagatsu, Department of Health, Wastewater Branch. So, um besides septic tanks and aerobic tanks, so we do it look at passive systems that accomplish aerobic treatment. Um they can be somewhat more affordable because they use their type of um sizing
080criteria. It's a little bit smaller sometimes than what DOH uh allows for regular absorption beds, which are which are bigger. So, that that can bring the cost down, and we are we are familiar with the technologies out there. Okay. All right. Thank you. Any other questions? >> Chair Go ahead. Sorry. No, you go first. No, no, no. I have a question. Oh, sorry. I still don't have a good one. And so, so can you let me know in uh my uh district of Waialae Beach which we about 10, 15 miles away. We have a lot of old cesspools. Still don't have a good data on how much pollution that our cesspools that is leaking into the ocean that is causing uh potential health issues. And I've been bringing it up at the city council as
081the same thing. We don't have any. You guys are talking about these loans like the people in my community is 21 years old. They're in the '80s. They probably all They're not going to afford a loan. And if they don't do it on a certain time and you the other person said we'll do them upon approval what's going to happen to my families in the community that cannot afford to even do it or even try to make a loan? So, are they going to keep finding them if they don't do them in a timely manner? And the other issue that I have with not this with the Department of Health, with the City and County is that a lot of the families that did extensions or they grow their house and the City and County
082and the Department of Health said, "Hey, you got to put on septic tank." Cost them 40,000, 60,000 to do it for their home. Guess what the Department of Health said and the Department of um Environmental Services said, >> [snorts] >> "Ah, you still got to tie into the sewer." Where is that equal medium that these guys did spend all this money into the house to make the extension for their family? Now their septic tank is going to be no longer accepted. So, I'm not sure if you guys' criteria it is or is the city's criteria. But something has to change. People that have made the conversions from the cesspool because they had to would be something that I really would you guys look look into because it's not fair to my community that is aging.
083None of my people in my community that lives in the district wants it. I understand the beach side, Waikiki, Ala Wai Beach Road area, maybe you got to figure something out. But none of the people in my community on this side where I live can afford it. And that's something we tied in long time ago in the district. But the other sides didn't. And they're they're not going to be able to afford it. This is like 30 years ago. You know, and they don't Again, you got to use a licensed plumber. You cannot do them like we did it. We did it for ourself. We filled up our cesspool. Right? We took it all the way to the road, and then we had a licensed plumber tie it in. All of that is no, no,
084no. See? So, again, how are you going to accommodate the people that cannot really afford to get a loan? And you will go to the bank, they say, "Yes." But they actually will tell you, "No." How you think that in in my city in Hilo they're going to feel that they cannot do these conversions? And the burden will be put up on them if they don't get fined. You know. I don't know if you can answer that. Maybe the city can. I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of parts that I'm not sure which part What you need? Yeah. >> [laughter] >> I want to answer uh I mean, the the financial part, like everybody is saying, is is is the difficult part. And that's why hopefully this bill um these loans that are going
085out with this program will be lower than what somebody can get at a bank. You know, that that's the intent. Is that people can get loans that are, you know, much more uh beneficial to them than trying to go to the bank cuz the bank rates are not affordable for people or they can't even get qualified for it. So, yeah, I mean, that is that is an issue. The the the part about what is required and and and not is, you know, we have state regulations, and we do require them to connect to a city sewer or county sewer when it's available. So, that is something that both ENV and and the state or the county that we're in has to answer together. And that's what we're trying to find out too. Where they're where
086they want a sewer and they can bring the sewer, we do support them connecting to the sewer system. But if they don't have a sewer system or they're not planning to, then individual wastewater systems do need to be upgraded. So, it can be a difficult The burden and the financial responsibility does fall on the homeowner when they stay on a a cesspool that needs to be upgraded. That That's the difficult part of uh individual wastewater systems. Okay, maybe maybe the city and county of Honolulu. Thank you. Appreciate it. Aloha chair, vice chairs, members of the committee. Uh Kayla Fox, executive director for the Office of Climate Change, Sustainability, and Resiliency for the City and County of Honolulu. Um I completely agree with you. Um right now we are trying uh to find a mechanism that
087we can support, especially through my office, seeing that there are 8,000 cesspools on the island of Oahu. 1,000 of those are in projected sea level rise areas. I want to make sure that we're doing something right now. And so, I have $625,000 right now in our city's climate resiliency fund that I would I would absolutely like to have a mechanism part of this the beginnings of what a revolving loan fund would be. You're absolutely right, Senator. Right now, all of the cost is on our residents, and we have to find a financial suite of solutions to be able to offer our residents and our homeowners in every single one of our districts. For the island of Oahu, we're trying to start where we can. I've asked uh I've submitted an appropriation request through Mayor Blangiardi's
088executive operating budget for FY '27 for another 950,000 so that we can continue to work with the state, and we can combine the state and the city efforts to make sure that we start somewhere and that we can have a pilot program that starts to make these conversions, and I can say that the Department of Environmental Services, from my understanding, is conducting an assessment through the end of this year, and it's those types of uh details that I think we're all looking forward to understanding of what's going to be um the requirements for each of the homeowners and the residents. The The reason why I bring you up is because [clears throat] when they had started this whole cesspool conversion cuz the state had made a mandate to upgrade, my community was chosen. And there's
089the nearest cesspool or the nearest sewer line is miles away from homes. So, there's going to be a lot of cost that the city going to pay, that's going to probably go back to the homeowner and the people that's going to do them. So, what is you guys' solution? Because I still haven't heard nothing from anybody else that the ones that did the upgrades and made the cess the septic tanks, are they going to be grandfather clauses that they don't have to tie in? Or they still going to be have to go tie in um to the the sewer when they bring the sewer in? To advance Some of the easements, the cesspool outflow is in the back of the house. Yeah? So, that's going to be a lot of cost. We going to see
090if you guys have money to do it. Again, how are we going to uh subsidize a lot of families, including on Ewa Beach Road, that took the Environmental Services and the Department of Health and converted cuz they came to the neighborhood board? We had to uh vote on it if we were going to accept them to build a sep- septic tank to upgrade the cesspool, and it was voted through, and they did it. But now they're telling those homeowners, regardless if you have a septic tank, you got to tie into the sewer. And that's another thing that I have a problem with. So, something that we need to do here or there or someplace to make sure that there's not going to have any impact because they have septic. You know, and they got to
091get them pumped whatever the situation is. But that's something that you guys got to consider because my community is 110% against the conversion because of If you know where the community stay up Ewa Beach, we're miles away from Puakapuana and um Ewa Beach Road. But Lankford decided to say that he was going to do that area. And there's no justification because three of Nobody can tell us how much of the cesspools are leaking, right? With the sea level rise up and down, how much of them is pumping per month, right? How much of that is happening? Nobody can give them an answer, but they just saying that we're going to get loans and we're going to help you guys do this. Yeah? And again, it is it's really burdensome. So, I I think we got
092to come up with a plan to figure out how we're going to accommodate those families that had put in there because we can't Our families can't afford buying homes. So, they converted their house so their kids could live with them, and now they're going to be penalized after spending 40 to 60,000 for the septic tank. So, you guys can take that back. But I'll reach out to you guys later. But thank you, chair, for your for your Appreciate you. Thank you. Mahalo, Senator. Okay. We got eight more minutes for this one. Just planning you know, we only have eight more minutes for this one. I just have you so we can go fast. Um you guys are putting money into this bill? I thought I heard that correctly, city and county. We have monies right
093now that have been allotted um through a fiscal year '26 appropriation through the Honolulu City Council for cesspool conversions, and this process would allow us to be able to work with the state once the Hui Green Infrastructure Authority has the mandate and the ability to create this revolving loan fund. >> concerned about that because a revolving fund is usually systemic. It's not a one-time appropriation, a future appropriation. And so, and I again, as she and I have talked about, on-bill financing, which is the genesis of this, was run through municipalities through property taxes. So, as this bill moves forward, I'm really running out of time. You may want to look at something like that where there's a systemic property tax attachment from the City and County of Honolulu so the revolving fund can truly be
094sustainable and revolving. Thanks, chairs. I'm done. Thanks, Senator. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. We'll take a brief recess for decision-making. Okay. Having conferred with the other chairs, the chair's recommendation is to pass uh HB 1618 with technical amendments. Any discussion? Chair votes aye for AEN. Um only technical amendments, right? Okay. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. I'll wait. You know, in the committee report that the issues with the uh the viability of revolving fund, I have an next committee look at it. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Just just for a record. Hang on. So, I'm So, I'm in the middle of a vote. No, no discussion, right? No discussion, yeah. So, so as chair, just for discussion, I said one is we have challenges with the EDT committee. I also sit on the egg
095committee, so doesn't look well as EDT cannot move this measure because we don't have the support behind it. So, if you're calling for the vote, let's call for the vote. My vote would have to be no vote. You will stop Will that make it? Okay. Vote. We could another option to defer decision-making to 3:10. Everybody's got it. The 3:10? Yeah, everybody's got it. Well, well, No, but HHS can make a decision now. But EDT is missing. So, for AEN, chair votes aye, vice chair. On House Bill 1618, House Draft 1, Correct. passing with amendments, chair votes aye, vice chair votes aye, Senator DeCoite. >> No. Senator Rhoads. Aye. Senator Wakai. Is excused. Chair, you have three in favor. >> Well, you got to take the vote. Motion is adopted. Okay. For HHS, same um same
096recommendation, chair votes aye, pass with amendments. >> Recommendation is to pass with amendments uh Senate Draft 1. Uh the only excuse of Senator Fiel Palakiko. That's it. I don't care cuz I'm not going to get committee. Um any other amendments for WRs or no? Seeing none. Oh. No for Senator Favela. Any other WRs or no? Seeing none, recommendation for HHS has been adopted. Vote for AEN. All All Committee on Economic Development Tourism, um as you can see, we um I strapped with just two of us, and for those reasons, I would have to defer the bill cuz we don't have the slots to do it. And the deadline And the deadline. Just don't have a quorum. Okay. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> We're good. We are adjourned.