EDU-WLA, EDU Public Hearings 02-13-2026

001Good afternoon. I'd like to call the committee on education and waterland culture and the arts to come to order. Today is Friday, February 13th, day before Valentine's Day. Don't forget if you have a loved one, don't forget to get them something. We are meeting in conference room 229. This hearing is being streamed live on YouTube. And if we must end this hearing due to technical issues, the committee will reconvene on Wednesday, February 18th at 100 p.m. in conference room 229. And a public notice will be posted on the Hawaii Legislaturator's website. And due to the number of people, as you can see, standing outside waiting to come in here for other issues. And because of the shutdown we had on Monday, we're really have to had to move a lot of the uh bills and

002I'm sorry uh you guys were scheduled for Monday and uh because of this uh we have part of you today and part of you on Wednesday. So uh please bear with us. Uh and if technical issues arise during the zoom testimony, the committee may need to proceed to the next testifier and written testimony is on file and much appreciated. And so I want to welcome my chair from Waterland and his committee. Welcome. So the first item is Senate Bill 2613 relating to public school land transfers, revises it to tax key numbers and the conveyance process by which identified properties are conveyed to the Department of Education pursuant to act 307 session laws of Hawaii 2022. With that, first testifier is uh Stacy Aldrich. >> Aloha, chair. >> Aloha, chairs Lee and Kim and vice chairs

003Kadani and Inaway and committee members. Stacy Aldridge for the Hawaii State Public Library System. We've submitted our comments on SB 2613 relating to public school land transfer. The Hawaii State Public Library system requests the committee help to complete the separation of HSPLS from DOE. Uh that occurred in 1981. Although operations and management for all public libraries was transferred to the board of education and the state librarian 45 years ago, control over the property for those libraries was never completed. We believe that this is the most efficient and cost-effective way for us to continue with managing our building projects going forward. U my colleague Mallerie Fujatani is in the room to answer any questions that you might have and thank you very much for this opportunity to provide comments. Okay, thank you very much. Our next

004testifier uh Keith Aayashi DOE. >> Good afternoon uh chairs, uh vice chairs, members of the committee. This is a bill that was submitted through the governor's uh package. It's a cleanup bill um for act 307. Um we asked that some of the uh TMKs are adjusted because some of the work that DOE has been engaged in um that we no longer need those in there. Um one thing we are asking in our testimony um as an additional amendment is deleting uh the land identified as TMK 43-62 uh parcel 10. It's the Wilcox Elementary School. That's on page four, line seven. Um, from the department to Kauaii. Currently, the parcel is owned by the department and we would like to transfer that to the county. That's a tennis courts and it's next to the um city

005park. So, a county park. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Uh, we had one individual signed up, uh, Johnny May Perry in support. That person did obviously not here. Anyone else wishing to testify on 2613? Hearing none, members, we're open to questions. Um, a question for uh libraries. Stacy Mallerie. So, um, what prompted this measure to come before us now? I mean, this has been an issue for a while now, right? So, can you just explain? >> Yes. So, uh, we've had some issues over the years when we do construction projects and we do other things. And so, um, about 6 months ago, we had a construction project that got delayed because of the issue about, um, lack of site control. And so, we, um, so construction got delayed and then we were eventually able to

006work out a right of um, entry and MOA with the Department of Education. But going forward, it would be helpful if we didn't have to do that. And then even more recently uh not related to the public and school libraries, the Cahului library which we thought we controlled but um completely but I guess Department of Education still noted on the EO the executive order and so the county of Maui and actually Senator Hashimoto is the one that forwarded me the email they're needing DOE to sign off on that for us. So it's just a lot fewer steps if we can just handle it inhouse for our public libraries. >> So can you explain the delayed lack of site control? Can you explain what what that I'm not sure what why it got delayed. >> Um

007so the in that particular situation the KL um we're building a brand new library. The current library is in the middle of the parcel. We're building a new library for the public on the edge of the parcel. Um we tried to work with the DOE over the three years to get our CIP project out to bid. Um, but you know, it was difficult to get confirmation on things and then when we were ready to start construction, they said, "Hey, wait a minute. You can't start construction because you don't have a right of entry." >> Who said that? >> Department of Ed. They basically told us, "We don't own the property because we're not listed on the executive order." >> But Denos had been working with them for three years on this. >> Um, mostly it

008was us trying to engage somebody with the Department of Ed to work with us. um we finally got um Kurt Ouguro to confirm that we could move forward with our project. So basically the new library project is within the same TMK but just on the edge so we wouldn't impact the students because right now the library is in the middle of the campus. Okay members any other questions of the library? If not so why is it so difficult? I mean, what's the problem? >> So, there there's a couple of um I'm hearing issues. Um one is the testimony that was submitted, which I haven't seen yet. Um where the idea is that parcels that are um state libraries on DOE lands should be carved out. Um conceptually, without seeing what the testimony says, that sounds

009right. um some of the libraries that are on DOE land are sort of off and not on the main campus and so you know it would make sense to sort of carve that out, subdivide and get a new TMK. So that sounds reasonable but I I haven't seen the test. >> Okay. No, that part I understand. The part I don't understand is how why has it been so hard for the libraries to get hold of somebody at DOE and then get the and then the and then get a delay in the construction because they don't have the right of entry because again this is concerning what's going on over at DOE. It's one obstacle and another troubling. So for that issue, that's a separate issue separate from this bill that was I'm familiar with. >>

010That's not separate from this bill because that's why we have this bill because they can't work with you guys to get this stuff going. Now we have to pass a law. >> Oh, well this this particular project they're talking about, this bill wouldn't have helped it because it was the library in the middle of the campus that they're moving to the edge of the campus. So in that project, um it's moving forward. They started construction. Um you know, I wasn't around when it first started three years ago, but since I've been here, we've issued a right of entry and they've got everything they need to proceed. My understanding is that because it's integrated with the campus still, you know, even though it's on the more of the corner, it affects the drop pickup drop off

011area. Okay. >> And so there was a lot of back and forth about how to get that. >> So when did you Oh, that's Jesse Suk, right? >> Oh, sorry. Jesse Suk. >> Okay. So when did you folks start the us try to start the construction and it got delayed? >> Um so we had our precon meeting in August and the we were supposed to start uh NTP was right after Labor Day and we started construction end of August. I mean end of October. >> End of October. Yeah. So you had to wait until end of October to to do it because you didn't have the the >> um Yeah. Actually, Jesse was very helpful in trying to move it along and to get the right of entry, but then they also um I guess

012uh within the DOE, they decided we needed a the MOA, which would we would normally execute after construction is completed. Um okay, thank you. >> Okay, appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Question. So, deputy, I you know, do you feel that cutting out DLNR is actually going to help you speed things up? >> Cutting out DLNR >> going before BLNR approval, right? Isn't this what what's part isn't part of the bill about that? >> Uh, no, I don't I don't think so. Well, act 307 um transferred the intent was to transfer certain parcels by the counties owned and by the stateowned to DOE. So I'm reading in it clarifies that the disposition of school building facing grounds are made by DOE shall not require approval from the DLNR. Is that already in the underlying statute?

013Are you guys asking for that as well? >> That clarifies that clarifies the way it's supposed to be um disposed of. >> Yeah. >> Right now are you guys asking for that >> because this question um about you know whether it Belar needs to act but because of operation of law BR doesn't need to act. >> That's an I'm sorry. So you guys are currently going through them or you're not? No, we're not because BLNR's position has been and you know they have a record of this um when acts transferring land like they did for like you folks did for um egg lands to DOA um and it's by operation of law is the interpretation by BLNR and they have a memo on this um it's in their records again um they look at operation

014of law as the land is transferred on that date circuit and they don't do like quit claim deeds or something to um formalize the transaction with uh Bureau of Records. >> Okay. Okay. That's fine. I think what I'm trying to distill it down to is so they're not they're not in hindrance of this process. No. So you you fully control this process? >> Yes. Yeah. We're asking for clarity. Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. Well, hopefully you there's more clarity because I think it's been kind of slow. I think you know we've been trying to transfer lands right which you guys I think been knowing the BLNR you know I think had to be involved in that those parcels but it when I called them they were never the problem so it seems like it's an internal

015DOE issue right and so I hope hopefully you you you will you folks will at least focus on doing land transfers in a more expeditious way right and I don't I don't know what's holding it up because you know we we I have a property on Maui that's we've been trying to transfer to you since when I first got into office in 18, we started to to try and move it forward. And you know, Kishimoto at the time didn't move on it. So, you know, I think we're finally moving on it, but it shouldn't take that long to move a piece of land that's I think been trying to be transferred to the DOE from the early 2000s. Right. >> So, I don't know what's the problem. You know, I I hope we you're asking

016for the right clarifications for us to speed this along. >> Yeah. I I mean, I I agree. I've been I've been doing land use transactions for the past 20 years and I I just joined DOE in September and u every piece of land and parcel is different. That's what makes land use law exciting. But um if if I can work with your office and what are the problem ones that you're pointing out that are sticking uh we can try and figure out why why is it stuck you know that there could be a particular issue about it. Um it could be internal but at at this I I don't know which exact parcel it is but we can look at it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, what I'm looking at is globally is so do do

017we have people that are specifically working on this? Because I think at a certain point we just put on the back burner and say, "Oh, we're going to get it done. We're going to get it done." And then it just kind of never gets done. >> We do have a we do have a person is new assigned. >> Um he's been there for as long as I've been there. I don't know if how long he's been before that, but he was he's been there for some time. >> Who is that? >> Um Roy. >> Roy. >> I Yeah. Well, you know, I I think I've been working with him and I think there needs to be some sense of urgency in in in how we transfer lands. And so, I think we really need to

018take a deep dive to see what more can we do to make this happen cuz if we're going to go at the pace that we were going, I don't think we're ever going to get it done. So, I think we need to we need to hopefully hopefully these clarifications will help, but I think there needs to be a deeper dive on what else what else needs to be done to to get this going and done, right? Cuz if this is done, then we can move on to other things. But I feel like we're just this is taking really long. >> I I'll dig into that. Thank you. >> Thank you, chair. >> So, if you folks have total control, what why do you need clarity? Can don't you folks would do your put clarity into

019it since you control it? >> Well, so one of one of the reasons why BLNR takes the position that um it's not going to issue um some kind of transactional document for lands that are transferred by operation of law because that can take a long time, especially if it's land court issues. So, Um but when you need some kind of thing documented even if it's operation of law is if you're working with third parties. So like for an easement like with HEO you need more than operation of law. HEO wants to see you know like a you know quick claim deed or something. So that might take more time but >> but you just said you just said that that's not the hindrance. The LNR is not the hindrance that you folks have complete control

020of the process. So, but you're saying you want clarity, but wouldn't you folks be the ones to put the clarity in it? Yeah, >> if you have control. >> Well, we we would prefer clarity from the legislature that these happen from that date certain by operation of law and then that would really make it clear for everybody um that this is an action that has happened. Right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? Oh, Senator. >> Yes. Thank you, chairs. Uh my my question and comment with regards to uh chair on section 4 page 21 and this has to do with the public use after school is out and the comment I have is that uh the department you will assess fees which you have been doing right now for public

021use which is uh to me I think commendable that you have some income. However, uh the question with regards to parking when it says any parking on roadways and in parking under the jurisdiction and this is on the next page on page 22 under the jurisdiction of the department and this has to do with um 301-1151 that you will be charging um a separate uh fee for parking on roadways near a school. And knowing Oahu and the population here, there are many cars that I see that are parked after school hours that are parked near schools. Are you already collecting fees for that or charging? >> So this would fall. So a couple of things. One is this is only for property that's under the jurisdiction of DOE. So that includes some roadways but not

022all roadways. So we couldn't charge parking for county road. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um these facility use um procedures um we have rules for it and you know how much they can charge. We have a process it's done by um school by school by uh principles and their administration. >> Okay. So when you're talking about that the the jurisdiction then it's more internal then within the property and not outside of >> Yeah. Not outside of the the thank you chair. So we have a question. I have one comment which is um love to follow up on the some of the land transfer process later on offline discussion. There's >> some other properties I know we've been talking about where there's tens of millions of dollars sort of on the line. >> Yeah. >> But it's

023based on the timeline. So >> happy to help with that. >> Hopefully we can sort this out. >> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> I I just want to make clear deputy that on page 21 you are deleting the whole section regarding the the the BLNR transfer. >> So you should just know that. >> Mhm. >> Right. And you should be clear because you said the underlying statute already gave you that but we're taking that whole part out on page 21, >> right? Because >> right so now now we're actually the legislature is actually taking it out which not that's not what you said before. >> So so to so to be clear when you look at these land transfer bills that the legislature has issued for like again the the DNR DOA lands there's um there's

024different bills like this. The language is sometimes different in in different bills, but generally we interpret it as by operation of law. So, we just want clarity across the bills. And if you strike this out, that'll make it clear that it's by operation of laws and that we're not required to get some some kind of documentation that we submit to the Bureau of Conveyances, for example, unless we need it because we're working with a third party. I I understand, but I think we're you should be clear with us that the bill does in fact give you that authority here to not have to do that. >> It does cleanly transfer the land. Yes. >> Right. But you were saying that you already had that power, but you don't. >> Well, that's that's an interpretation we

025make, but we would like the clarity. Right. >> Okay. Well, I just want to make sure people because people if people you're actually reading the bill, it clearly is striking that section out. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Thank you. Sure. >> Can I comment just just with regards to the land division regarding the the the current the previous speaker was that the land transfers that we did several years ago identified certain areas which you have under your jurisdiction now. But this is in addition to the the land transfers we did previously. Then this takes care of all the TM case to be part of that. >> Yeah. There was several bills that transferred counties and Yeah. So, >> well, we did that a couple of years ago with the county lands and the state

026lands and we appreciate that to certain school areas. Yes. >> Right. And so, but this only this amends an existing act. So, we're not adding anything new. >> So, you're just adding more to that act with the TMK's listed in the measure. >> Yeah, we're cleaning it up actually. Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. There's no other questions. Uh we'll move on. Thank you. >> Thank you. Moving on to the next measure, SB 2147 relating to Love My Library Day, which designates the first Friday in February of each year as Love My Library Day in the state. And we do love our libraries. So, up first is the Hawaii State Public Library System. >> Just want you to know we purposely did it a day before Valentine's Day to so we can love

027our libraries today, too. >> Awesome. Mahalo, J. Um Stacy Aldridge, state librarian, Hawaii State Public Library System. Mahalo for this opportunity to testify from one of our well-loved libraries, the Princeville Public Library in Kauaii. Um we stand on our written testimony, of course, in full support of SB 2147. This bill acknowledges an important reality. Libraries are vital spaces in our communities that create opportunities for all to read, learn, and connect to ideas, information, technology, and each other. This day is not a state holiday, but it is a statewide statement, a reminder that our Hawaii libraries don't just um store knowledge, but they spark possibilities. I thank you for your support. I wish you all a happy happy Valentine's Day and mahalo for this opportunity. >> Thank you very much. Up next is the Department of

028Education. >> Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, Chair Lee, Vice Chair Anoi. I'm Heidi Armstrong, Department of Education. We stand on our testimony and support. Um, this measure um, elevates the profile of school libraries. It encourages community advocacy and it reinforces the critical role that libraries play in fostering literacy and student success. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, we have that's everyone who signed up to testify. Uh, we had three additional organizations and 11 other individuals in support. Is there anyone else wishing to testify in this measure? Nobody loves their libraries. Uh thank you everybody. Let's move. Uh excuse me. Are there any questions? >> All right. Seeing noneision. >> Let's go to decision making. >> Turn it back over to chair. >> Okay. Thank you. We're on decision making on Senate Bill 2613.

029This is the school land transfer. Uh recommendation is to um amend the measure to um include part three section one subsections A, B, C, and D. This amendment would clarify the statutory requirement for the transfer of lands that the public and school libraries are situated on um from the Department of Education to the Y state public library system. Uh this will ensure clear ownership, improve long-term planning, capital improvement, coordination, and align operational responsibilities with property control. Uh Senate Bill 2613 transfers to DOE 51 library properties. This amendment would then allow for the transfer of 12 public and school library properties to the Hawaii public library system. uh will also take into consideration the request uh from the DOE regarding uh Wilcox Elementary School and make technical and non-s substantive amendments. Uh members, any discussion, any

030questions? Hearing none, vice chair for the vote for 2613. Chair votes I. Hi. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Committee on Waterland, same recommendation. >> Okay. Thank you. The Committee on Water, Land and Culture, and the Arts. Chair's recommendation to pass SB 2613 with amendments. Chair Lee. >> Hi. >> Vice Chair goes, Senator Chang is excused. Senator Lamosa, >> I. Senator Deport. >> Hi. >> Measure is adopted, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. And the joint hearing is the other one. >> Sure. Oh, we have one more. >> Yep. >> Oh, water. >> That's okay. >> Okay. It You didn't You didn't go us out, right? >> Okay. Sorry. >> That's all right. Moving on to SB 2147 relating to Love My Library Day. Um, seeing all testifiers in support, recommendation is to move

031out with tech amendments. Um, yeah. and non-s substantive amendments. Any discussion? Seeing none, vice chair, >> the committee on water, land, culture, and the arts chair's recommendation to pass SB 2147 with amendments with four members present. Any voting with reservations? Any no votes? Hearing none, vice chair uh chair uh Lee measure is adopted. >> Uh same recommendation for the committee on education and I do love my library. So, chair votes Thank you. And now we're adjourned. >> Thank you. uh for the committee on education. We are on a 105 agenda. Today is Friday, February 13th. I will dispense with the other uh comments regarding if we have any difficulties. Uh we have difficulties all the time. But the first item on the agenda is Senate Bill 6, I'm sorry, 2602 relating to general fund requires

032the excess funds for the University of Hawaii tuition and fees special fund at the end of the fiscal year lapse to the credit of the general fund. Uh, and we have uh Tom Yamamaica testifying for the Tax Foundation of Hawaii. Tom, are you there? >> Uh, thank you, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Tom Yamamaica for Tax Foundation. Um, but it seems like most of the people testifying on this bill see it as a raid. Uh, we we look at it as a technical fix. uh the the statute already provides for lapsing to the credit of program ID's UH900. I I think the problem is to I think that's the problem because UH900 is a program designation. It's not a fund. So um it looks to me like a technical fix but uh if

033it's not then uh we think there are much better candidates for rating. Uh >> we will take that under adisement. >> Thank you. >> A message to uh the chair of the uh ways and means committee. Thank you. Okay. We have next uh president in the university Wendo Hensel and Lewis Alivera and it's good to see the chair of the border regions also here. Regent Lee, welcome. >> Good afternoon, chair. We rest on our testimony in opposition of this measure and are here to answer any questions you have. >> Okay, let's see. We also have had testimony from Christian Fern and from Leilani Dlo in opposition. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none. Members, we are open for questions. Sorry. Okay. So, um, president, if you'd like to come forward like

034I guess the question that was raised during the ways and means committee and also during our briefing about the um excess balance that is uh left in the tuition and fees fund and the plans that you might have for those monies which we don't we never got a definitive list of what the what those might that might be. Um and also I guess the concerns been raised since about consolidating all of that balance left over other than the 16% um reserve as to coming directly from the community colleges. So um president if you want to go ahead. No, I'm happy appreciate the opportunity to to speak to this and in response to the the testimony, this is this is a major shift in how the university would be funded. This would not be a technical

035amendment. Uh as you know, um currently fund balances for tuition and and special fees after the year is over remain. U they they come back to the university central fund and go back out to each of the um other funds, which is how they are currently held. The uh the problem uh which I think you all identified is that there is a significant amount of money in those balances that is not being productively employed for strategic purposes. In part that is because they are held at the individual level and our goal is to begin thinking of how to use those funds productively to be invested for the benefit of the whole. You know all of our campuses are just a different way of saying students across the university. They are all students of the University

036of Hawaii. There are different challenges that arise at different times for different campuses. Having the ability to control that kind of investment centrally um is a huge benefit. But importantly, nothing has happened in that regard. Those monies are 100% under the control of each of the individual campuses at this time. Um so I'm not sure where the perception came that it was centralized. It's not. It's actually held at each individual campus. There's nothing in fact that is standing between them and spending that money. And I have on more than one occasion asked those chancellors to identify strategic investments for w to which to to employ that money that is sitting there and um and I'm not I haven't seen anything particularly that we're able to move on. So part of my challenge is where are

037the centralized issues like EAB navigate and student success and creating a common standard of care for each student across the university is the point and it's not I I think Luis is new but we've always taxed those accounts to do centralized functions. It's the only way that we can where there is you know common technology or there's common things that are employed across the 10. the fact that it's sitting in individual counts doesn't mean we aren't using it for the benefit of the whole. So that that there's no change there from where we currently have been. >> Members, any any questions? >> Senator, >> thanks President maybe you can clarify what what are the balances that you know I guess maybe start with the biggest which is Monoa and you know who's the biggest, who's

038the smallest and what's the aggregate I suppose if you add them all up. >> Sure. I believe um >> VP Salivaria has that information. >> Thank you, Senator. Uh Luis Salivia, vice president, CFO for the University of Hawaii. Uh right now the largest balance uh of the uh tuition and fee special fund does exist within Monoa. But if you look at the overall distribution of uh of how it is between the four years and the two years, the four-year campuses have approximately 185 in tuition and fee special balance, but the community colleges have approximately 142. So it's very close when you think about uh the difference between the four and the two-year colleges. But to specifically answer your question, Monoa is the largest with approximately 93 million in the tuition and fees special fund. The

039smallest in this particular case would be Winward Community College at about 6.6 million. >> And then what what is the difference between what is your policy versus what is excess? >> Uh it is approximately about 100. It's aboutund and 116 170 million between the 16% policy versus the balance. Cuz right now the balances that we have in the reserve in the reserve accounts is approximately 144 of which the total balance in the tuition and fee special fund right now is 326. >> Okay. >> Thank you chair. >> Uh because currently uh uh you can retain your unspent balances and you don't have to report it. >> No, we we do report you report it. Um but I think the bigger picture is the disclosure and the reporting process because how often do you report it?

040Not annually. >> Oh yes, >> we do report annually. It's part of the annual report that we do provide to the legislature. >> Yeah, this is this is all very public information that repeatedly is reported. Part of the reason we're talking about it is I have raised the issue as you know Senator Kim of my concern that we are not using these funds. We should never be sitting on on these kind of funds without productively employing them in some type of research or a return for the university. I think um I'm just hoping people don't go in and out um because the every time the door opens it's hard to hear. Um I think the concern is that the way it's it uh it's put out because it's not all in one place sometimes even

041when we ask a bud a budget way and means um it's not clear. I know you sent me the CIP. I called you back and I said, you know, I still not getting the information that we asked for. So, I think that's where um some of the points is coming is that while you give us pages and pages of stuff, it's very hard to decipher because it's not clear >> as to how some of these some of these funds. >> It's like now when you look when we had this reserve balance, you lumped up all of the community colleges, correct? And then I asked for it and then we had to ask again to finally get it broken down by community college to see exactly there is seven commu seven or nine community colleges seven

042community colleges and four right for um four year >> three three four year so and they're almost the same but you got seven campuses at the at theund >> 42 million >> I I think part of that and we're always happy to report in whatever form that you prefer but you allocate the money to the as a number. And so we both have the reporting from the from the Senate and and the legislature as to how we receive the money and then we have internal accounting principles of how it's broken down between the seven. Quite often that money is held at the community college level for that system within a system. So it actually is it's both and it's and it's how you want that information reported. We're happy to provide it. >> Yeah. And

043I think the problem is with while it sits at the community college now the understanding is that there was poss there was a a proposal possible proposal to take all of the money and centralize it from each of the community colleges and the I know the community colleges are concerned because some of them have been very fiscally responsible so they have some nice balances there um and you know and then I know like in Manoa's case there's a lot of spending that have gone on in a lot of areas in which they have some possible shortfalls uh there and so the community colleges feel like you know that they shouldn't be supplementing for Monoa and some of the mistakes that Monoa might have made. So, as long as you keep it with the with the

044community colleges and then ask them, you know, can we have monies for certain projects that will encompass and benefit all of the campuses, I think is probably what they would prefer uh at this point. But so if we don't scoop the balances uh or raid the balances or whatever technically kick the balances, then what assurances do we have that you're going to leave the monies with the community colleges? >> Well, I think the important thing to point out first and foremost is the legislation actually sweeps that money back to the that is your own legislation that sends it back to the system. So um and that is not what we're doing at this moment. So, it's an interesting position in which we're having this conversation, but there has been no directive to do that. Uh,

045I mean, again, candidly, I'm not sure what the benefit is of sitting on money that's not being productively employed for the benefit of all of our students. uh the way that we the way I can just say for me personally but my entire team we are interested in serving students whether they sit at the community college or Monoa it is not to benefit one campus but it is to provide an equivalency in terms of support for the students across every campus and candidly sometimes the allocations that come out of the legislature create imbalances in that which you're entirely legit you know that is entirely legitimate but it doesn't erase the need on the campus. So at this moment there's absolutely no intention of raiding the community colleges in any sense for for the benefit of

046Monoa and uh as part of the good faith of that as you know we are splitting my position from the community uh I'm sorry from Monoa into just the system for exactly that purpose because there is this churn and there is this concern that if I sit in both of these positions it creates some favoritism toward one. So, you know what I can assure this body is that is absolutely not the intent of anything we've done and this is really these are fears that are being articulated as opposed to a response to any action that we've taken. >> Well, I I appreciate that and I agree with you. I think the one of the problems and for me having been chair I've never really saw what each campus has and if I knew that they

047have a balance then when they come in and ask us for positions here positions there monies for this then I could have said hey you've got a $39 million balance sitting in your community college why aren't you tapping that but because it's not been reported to us as such that I don't have that ability but now that we're getting that information I know exactly what the community college and when they come into us then I'm going to ask them what are you doing with your balances because I agree we shouldn't be sitting on you know anything >> and we will make that information available. >> Yeah, we're h we're happy to report it because and that was one of the first questions I had because most of it is reported in the aggregate for the

048community colleges. That's that concept of a system within a system that creates some tension and some confusion >> honestly. Um so these are all these are all things I'm in complete agreement with you. We need to work toward creating that transparency >> and the community college has to be accountable as well and there are some some campuses that need it more than others and yes we've we've done that but not looking at what the balance is now that we know there's balances. >> Thank you chair. Um and you know for the university to be able to sit on this excessive amount of funds indefinitely without any oversight could also be very problematic as well. So I think the transparency is good. I think the accountability is good and I apologize for misspeaking but the reporting

049in addition to what the strategic plan on these excessive funds um I I think is important for you folks to lead in this initiative to bring this information for us rather than have to propose a bill and then get the conversation started and then get these reportings. So understood and as for the I mean that is why we specifically did not ask for funding this year except for two things where the state investment was a critical component of it. We have to manage our money internally. Uh I don't want anybody to ask me for a dime when they have a dollar in their hand and I feel the same as we come to you and ask for funding. We need to get our house in order. And what I can tell you is there are

050many initiatives which I think we've shared with you in terms of really significant investments in AI etc. that the reason you don't have a list in front of you of those expenditures is because that's still being put together. Um I'm happy to share those with you as we put those. But you know the the effect of this bill isn't just to take that money. It is to handcuff the university forever from being able to spend any type of balance that carries over for long range planning for debt service. So there very very significant implications to this particular bill as written. Uh and there's many things that we can do to be more you know more forthcoming so you know what's happening. >> Yeah. >> Senator question. So I I think your point is well taken

051but I think if if you look at what we're faced with right I think when you see this big balance and and you know there hasn't been much details I think you're formulating it but I think we have to react because we we we really want to see some action with this this this balance right and I think to me part part of what I'm hoping that you will do and you will take a look at is assure us that there will be a policy shift and hopefully the the chair of the regent you know is here and so he overly understands is that the board if your 16% is what you you know is if that's the base fine okay that's the region's policy but I hope you institute another policy to really give

052campuses guidance on what they should be carrying over right I think in DOE it's like 5% great you know that's all they get and and if you don't if you exceed the 5% then we're going to take it or you know so so at least but at least you're showing you know I I understand you on a spending plan but part of it is how do we stop this from happening in the future future right and I think that's that's the bottom line >> we are totally in alignment the challenge is of course there is the concern that if I do take that money right that is what's occasion >> that's why you need a policy right >> but it's more than a policy it's the ability of chancellors to envision forward strategy for their

053campuses so that is accountability that I am imposing upon them that you don't just come for example once a year to show me your numbers but to show me the investment and the mentality so that if there are investments that they need that exceed their balances. We can support that to move the university forward. Some centralized funding has to be available to do that or it is each man for himself on each campus regardless of need or regardless frankly of vision. Um some you know I think for example you know in Leeward in uh West Aahu there's some really exciting work that's being done there that's being led by Chancellor Puloza that is driven by Chancellor Puloza. If I'm not seeing that on other campuses, I need to respond in a way that insists that

054that occur. But what I can tell you is the first question I asked my leadership team in the interviews is why are you sitting on these large balances? Because it isn't optimal and it doesn't reflect good strategy. It is unique. I will say that and I think it's important for you all to know that usually the university is not in this position and likely will never be in this position again. This is a reflection of COVID and federal funds that came in and so what it creates is a one-time opportunity for significant investment at a moment of considerable change for the university and we have to move forward on that. But you your your point about it should not look like that is absolutely correct and it's just you it takes some time with me

055coming in new and setting the new strategy around what we've already what we're building on to really execute that. But we've already spent >> we've already spent. >> No, no. And I get it. I I think I think hopefully within the next couple of months, we'll see some some more clarity. But >> happy to show you. >> But but I think you know the c at a certain point the campuses also need to know what their parameters. I think it was unchecked, right? And I think you may be a great president now, but you know you you're not going to be able none of us last forever. And so I think if we can build internally, you know, the policies in place, I think that's really important. No, I accountability is necessary and it let

056it it's at multiple levels, right? Agreed. >> Yeah, >> I think Senator Dorton and I would be fine if you gave it all to Chancer. >> You know, interestingly enough, they have the smallest balance. So, it's a good example for me to show you where if we are strictly driven by any particular campus's balances, they will be the clear loser. In part because they have to pay debt service out of the money that comes into uh West Aahu. Most other campuses don't have to do that. So part of the equity question I'm asking is how do we serve the west side in an equitable way when they are inequitably taxed with what comes out of their aotment and that can only be done with a little more flexibility and a little faith and I understand

057that there that's in short supply but a little faith in our ability to manage the whole to ensure equity across the whole. Well, appreciate your leadership in that at Western Aahu. Obviously, I think that, you know, they do have one of the smallest balances. I noticed that, but also they have a program, the business program, which is the it seems like a premier program that's been growing and not been given enough resources and and it's sad that that's that's occurring. And those are the kinds of areas that we look at and then possibly step in to try to assist them because if they're doing a good job and the leadership prior was saying, well, you're such a big program that we're going to focus on the smaller programs and then didn't assist um on the

058business side and and that that that's really sad, but we certainly have to look at that. The other area when we talk about policy shift and I know you weren't here for that hearing but when we talked about the travel moratorum I mean this is clearly an area that even though you have these huge balances we still need to keep everybody in check as far as are we actually you know >> using the the tuition funds monies taxpayers monies um responsibly because there's excessive travel going on not just at the University of Hawaii the DOE has that as well and some of the other departments and so we want to a pause and if you read the bill you know that it doesn't cut it out entirely. Uh so uh we hope that the board

059of regions will take a look at that and and look at what the policy and sometimes the policy is there but it's the execution and the oversight is just not given. >> Yeah. So a couple things you know with all due respect I would hope that I or the system can step in to fund business when it's doing well where there are insufficient funds at the campus level right we should never never anyone at the system should be coming to this legislature when we are sitting on money that can be productively >> can we have that printed out and >> it's common sense right I mean it's just common sense that does require flexibility to be able to move money and have some fungeibility between it but I I agree with you that's a place

060to do on the travel what I want to wanted to say there is an extensive approval process that occurs and we are implementing a new policy where if it if it exceeds a certain threshold it must go to an additional layer of approval to um an an em so that >> we're we're going to start instituting additional policies above that and essentially we've heard the legislature and the concerns Okay, I appreciate that because I know the testimony came that they were in opposition of that measure. And again, you know, we're trying to give everybody a chance to get it right and not have to pass a law as to travel. Agreed. I mean, we want you folks to be responsible in doing that. And I think in most cases, but I I you you have

061a large institution and so is DOE. It's a large institution, but even more so, that kind of oversight is really needed because the taxpayers are looking at and I just want to say for the record because I've read some comments about, well, what about the legislature? You know, I want you to know that majority of us when we travel, we our airfare and our hotels are taken care of by the nonprofit entity that is inviting us to these seminars and to these conferences. And so, and we list every every scholarship that we get, we list on our gift disclosure. So if anybody want to know what trips we went on and how much was paid for it by an entity, they can go on to our gift disclosure and see that. I just want to

062editorial that because people do say, "Oh, what about the legislation?" >> Understood. We we agree. In fact, I I thought some of the concepts that you included, for example, of a limit of the number of people that can attend the same conference is one that we are are looking at internally. That makes sense, right? And and that kind of accountability, just to tie it back to the larger bill, if there is an expectation that you spend it or we sweep it, it will lead to some frivolous spending in order to spend it down versus the ability to carry over from year to year to invest in larger scale, more impactful thing. So there there's legitimacy to everything you're saying. And I I really can tell this committee in absolute honesty, we are working on all

063of these things. and you're looking at how we can use um you know computer and digital and zoom and all of that because you know is if anytime it's now in which we're finding more and more people virtually working you know and so forth but if you can do that from home then why do you have to go travel to South Carolina or to you know China to to Z and there are some there are some you know very very worthy type of trips that you know it's good to take and we realize that because we do travel. But again, we got to keep in mind how we balance the taxpayers's dollars because they want to travel as well, right? So, yeah. So, I hope DOE shares your folks's attitude because certainly they did not

064express that during that hearing. So, >> any other questions? >> Okay. Thank you. You might want to sit there because the next item is off. >> We'll just stay. >> Okay. Senate Bill 2658. Um, also relating to the University of Hawaii, it requires the board of regions to expend funds appropriated to new, improve, or modernizing existing University of Hawaii facilities for only those purposes and not for current ongoing or anticipated capital improvement projects. And so, let's see. Same cast of characters, I assume. Um, well, actually, we have here um AG quick. Yeah, sorry. Technical amendment. >> Good afternoon everyone. Deputy Attorney General Candace Park. The Department of Police Attorney General recommends indicating that the bill is a law of statewide concern. Thank you. >> Got it. Thank you. Appreciate that. And then we have uh

065let's see Jan Goa signed up. So that is you. >> Sure. >> You don't look like Jan Goa, but >> vice president of the university. We will stand in our testimony in opposition here to answer any questions. >> Okay. Well, why don't you come forward? Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Um Okay. So, you want to um I know we have your testimony here. >> Did you want to elaborate at all? >> Yeah. So I think as the way that the bill is written and I think I I do understand the need in order to g to gain a little bit more clarity around uh the rim funding because the rim funding is a lump sum budget that the university gets. But if you look at the way that the bill is written

066and how you cannot use it for for new capital improvement projects that essentially is what RIM is because RIM is kind of an ongoing uh you know expenditure of like deferred maintenance of new projects as they come on board. I think if the intention really is to to say that you cannot use rim funding for specifically appropriated CIP, I don't know if that's what this bill actually does. >> So, are you advocating for that instead? >> I think that that would be a discussion that we should have. I I mean I I don't want to speak for the vice president of administration, but as it stands right now, I mean, our rim funding and we are trying to get a much a much better hold on the way that we actually allocate funds towards capital

067expenditures. I think one of the things that we deal with and and this is not a this is not a problem unique to the university senator is that we have and we get appropriations for CIP projects and and often times those are based upon a conceptual spec of what they think the project would be. I think it's imperative upon us that if there are going to be cost overruns, if there are going to be uh these types of increases and expenditures for projects going forward that we inform the legislature and we ask for that money going forward. So the utilization of rim and in order to accommodate our what it should be used for which is to accommodate our our extreme backlog in deferred maintenance is is something that we need to go back and

068basically get a better hold on the way that we're spending money on our deferred maintenance requirements. So that's where I think you know I the way the bill is currently written basically doesn't doesn't address that in in many ways it might render RIM unusable because it is a lump sum appropriation for for new diver >> right and I think you know it's always my goal that the entities or the departments manage themselves and when they fail to manage themselves in areas then we end up sending these kinds of bills and it may have unintended consequences which is why we have these hearings to fix that. But you know, you come in specifically for CIP and you tell us the project, you tell us the cost and we give you folks that money. Then you come

069in and we have repair and maintenance or rim monies for improvements and you want a lump sum budget or you know in the past we didn't give lumpsum lumpsum because you want some flexibility. We gave you that. So you know now you want to say well you know we should be able to use that in. No, that's not the intent, but that's how you folks have been using it. >> And we want to be clear. I think our intention is to follow the in the legislative intent. It always will be to follow legislative intent. So, I think if the legislature, you know, would want us to be a lot more, you know, again, accountable. Well, shouldn't you folks I mean isn't that >> should be common sense in the sense that to be accountable if

070you come in and ask us for Sinclair and you give us a amount of money and we give you that money now you're over you cannot just go run and go take it from from rim because we have so many projects you have all these housing projects students housing that needs repair and maintenance you have deferred maintenance and yet you're using it to over cost overruns >> cost overruns of these projects instead of holding that entity accountable for those cost overruns. You know, I mean, Jan Goa came in here and flippantly said, "Oh, yeah, Sinclair, we're over. Oh, yeah. We use, you know, rim monies. Oh, yeah. We um it's not it's going to be delayed another year, two years." I mean, just like >> in the private sector, she'd be gone. >> I I

071understand. And >> it wasn't just one project. >> And you have my commitment. I And I want to work closely with uh with the vice president administration. I think uh when it comes to issues I mean there are multitude of reasons why cost increase based upon it I mean scope creep is a big thing that exists throughout all of state government but then we also need to do a better job with that when there is changes in project scope or anything like that that we're also doing the the the reverse which is the value engineering proposition in order to bring projects in line and and so that we don't exceed that but these are these are concepts that we need to >> so how do you just like McCarthy mall they came in for monies.

072We gave them monies and all of a sudden they they increased the scope was supposed to be only drainage and then decided, oh, we're going to make the mall, you know, we're going to beautify the mall and spend another $17 million and take it out of either um tuition monies or take it out of rim, you know, again, where are the priorities? And and I cannot speak for the decisions that were made in the past, but I think going forward the intention really is to hold the line on what we are proposing to do with capital expenditures. Uh because it is it is a significant expenditure of the university that has implications not just on what you provide to us in CIP but also on tuition and fees on the lumpsum rim budget. So part

073of this whole process is to gain a lot more uh I guess accountability around how those >> but I also hope you look at the structure as well because that vice president is in charge of majority. I mean if she's if she's not focused in on this then you know I I I don't I have a hard time understanding how you know just alone her performance alone shows that she's not performing as as she should be. So that needs to be >> yeah that I mean again candidly that was something I identified right when I came in that this is something this is not >> this is not a job this is like many jobs that are that are put together for VP Goa um I think we were laughing last year about wearing the

074yellow parking vest right which was funny but not funny as as sort of a you know all all terrain athlete the reason that hasn't devolved yet is because it will devolve as part of the Manoa split the with the chancellor. So those conversations are happening right now as to what how what belongs on the campus, what makes sense for it to be there. I mean because Manoa is our biggest campus in terms of of projects, right? Um and and what belongs at the system. So that job will naturally be split as part of this process that we're doing. That's the intention. >> Okay. Well, it's taking longer than than I'm comfortable with at this point in time, but Senator Hashimoto, you have a question. Oh, Senator, sorry. >> Uh, th this bill would close that

075legislative loophole. I mean, it will close the loophole because right now we're basing all of this on interpretation and intent where we're going to have to make the lines clear with the next set of leaders that come in. um because it provides too much of an opportunity to move the money around where if we're giving you a lump sum, maybe we should shift that over to direct appropriations. Um because this is a flaw that we're seeing overall, not just in your department, but in other departments as well. Um and not to shift gears, but also in vacancies. We know that that funds is used as a cushion to tack onto other salaries. So, you know, to ensure that the legislature >> is not being misled when we approve where these appropriations are going to go

076and then later on we find out that there's been a shift. I mean, we are getting the message out to the public on where these funds are going. So, it doesn't make us look good when we're not looped in and we don't have to approve it. The unelected board of regents are approving it, but they're unelected. We are the elected legislature. And so again, closing in on that loophole, I I think it would just make the communication clearer. No. >> And to your point, I think uh we can do a better job and in working with the chair to provide a lot more um the kind of detail that you want with the with the information that we're providing with regards to expenditures and we can continue to do that. Whether or not that requires

077a bill to actually execute on is another discussion. But the way that this particular bill is written, I I just don't know if it it want it accomplishes what you want. And you know, this is something that we could work together on, chair, and you have, you know, you have my commitment in terms of like providing you with the information. >> But do you agree though that some sort of legislation does need to be put in place so it takes the guesswork out of it? >> I I'm I'm not sure about that. I mean, uh, I think the the detail and the amount of information in terms of what we provide because the rim budget, if you look at it, it's deferred maintenance. And, you know, it's not it's no secret that we would need

078just $100 million a year just to kind of keep up with our deferred maintenance, but we never get $100 million. So the detail of like how projects move on. I mean you may have something that's on the on the deferred maintenance list like say for example an HV HVAC equipment that's okay that's slated to be repaired in that schedule like next year but then it breaks this year. So now all of a sudden it has to move up on the priority list because that it's just the nature of the deferred maintenance. >> Yeah. But it's still in deferred maintenance. It's not CI it's not going to be in the CIP. You're not robbing from CIP to pay for deferred, but yet you're robbing deferred to pay for overruns. >> And I think that's where we

079want we want to create the the granularity as well as the the detailed information so that you know how we are spending our money on the RIM budget going forward. >> Yeah. And I think that we did bring this up during the WHAM info briefing is that um the proactive approach to to start these these improvements and these repairs before buildings are falling apart and we're having to vacate and we're having to pay for other housing. I mean the maintenance of it really has to start being more of a priority so we don't find ourselves in this situation over and over again. And then you folks are asking for 100 million here, 100 million there. It's a big hole we're in right now and and and it's it's we're it's it's going to take a

080lot in order to dig out and we're having continued conversations about how we do fund, you know, our ongoing capital improvement projects and what kind of support we can get from from from the state, what we can handle internally, but these are all kind of part of kind of a larger overall strategy in in managing our property plant and equipment. >> Are you evaluating these overruns and these delays as to what is So in No, I've only been here for two months. Uh >> well, yeah, but people behind you or people back managing, you know, Vice President Goa has been there a long time. Her staff has been there a long time. What the border regents have been there. I mean, we we're looking at band-aids. We need to get to the bottom the problem.

081Yeah. Um that's happening >> and and President is is really good at making us very accountable for that actually. Well, again, I do I understand your concern and it is we've talked about this. These things cannot be kicked down the road because they're hard to solve, right? We have to tackle them and we have to do it in a really meaningful way. So, I I appreciate the point and I'm learning along with you and listening and whatnot and these are things we need to take back and have conversations about. I hear that you're thinking how this is being allocated is not how it's being spent. If that's the case, then we have our own work to do to get this >> and it's not a new it's not new and you know you've inherited this.

082These are issues we have talked about in the past which is why it's frustrating for us and you know trying to give you the leeway to to make some of these improvements and that's why sometimes it's not happening fast enough because we've been here for for so long fighting these issues and trying to get the university to be responsible um for this uh and and you know there in lies the frustration. I see wanting to grab that. >> So I guess going back to my fundamental questions I guess today is what is your policy on this? >> Like are are is moving forward is your policy going to be that you cannot use rim funding for cost overruns or are you still open to that? And I think that's that's the bottom line is if

083you have a big backlog, we need to know if it's the backlog you're going to take care of or you know what what what is the strategy? I suppose I hear there's a, you know, you have concerns with the bill, but I think we need to know what are you thinking, right? Because do we need the bill or are you going to actually take care of this? And >> I mean, Senator, from my perspective, just candidly, I would never answer that question definitively without speaking with the people who are the experts on it, right? And I think I would always ask you for more flexibility, not less, with a trust that has been earned about where it should be spent. But to the extent that we are spending money in a way that even I

084I don't think it is deceptive but feels deceptive to this body that is not in our interest anymore than it's in yours. So we need to go back and have this conversation. >> Okay. So the conversation hasn't been had then >> this particular I mean my my understanding and in every other university I've been in has been the flexibility of the team to identify the highest priority of need for that type of lump fund funding. That's pretty typical. But I but I think it's it's it's a statement of values, right? Because is is the statement of value that you're going to actually do the the backlog of R&M, right? Or are you focusing on all these only the new projects? >> Well, the reason I can't give you a definitive answer is because it's in

085motion, >> right? We're in the middle of some of these new projects. So I >> and I get it, but you're coming into a new fiscal year. You're going to get more money, right? And and I think what you know I think it'd be helpful for us to know what you're thinking because if absent of that understanding I think we're we're just probably just going to move the bill along because we don't have that understanding. >> Yeah. Your your understanding is my understanding. The priority is the buildings that we have on campus. Now some of those it is much more efficient to create a new building than it is to try and renovate it. So that it's a it's a moving target but we cannot my focus is not and will not be to create

086shiny new things for the campus. is to understand what's the usability of what we have and how do we raise it to a level that we're proud of that's sitting on campus because I mean candidly we all know there are buildings and infrastructure that we have that are not something that makes us feel good about and we h that's a billion dollars in a rears and that that's going to take time and we are absolutely committed to that over new construction with the exception that where the new construction is more economically viable than the renovation that is the approach approach we are taking. Um but if you you know we what we can do is go back and talk about the policy as it's being articulated here which I think is a little different than

087what the bill is saying. >> Correct. So >> okay thank you chair. >> So the new construction which is if it's warranted and when it's warranted then you would come into the legislature and get money for that specific and so that that then that's a process. So otherwise if it's not the case then we don't give you CIP. we're just going to give you a lump sum and then you decide whether you're going to use it for new, whether you're going to use it for repair and maintenance. But that's not the process. The process is you come in, you tell us what you want to build, what's new, how much it's going to cost, we give you the budget, then you go out and then you do that, right? But then then you start to

088take it out on rim. So that that has to change. Okay. Uh can I get the border region chair up? So, has the board even approached approached this issue? Have you folks even looked into some of the cost overruns and delays in some of the CIP and and ask the questions? Why is this happening? We've we've discussed um yes, we've discussed and what we're looking at is uh we're we're going to look at our governance and see if the CIP should right now we have too much going through our institutional success committee and we might need to split some things off because you've got say like the budget building and maintenance CIP everything all in one committee that is I mean there are times that we rush through it and that's where the deepest conversations

089are in those committees and we are we have discussed looking at through our governor's committee what should be split out because this committee structure we put into place not long three years ago and we had a lot lot of committees and there's that one committee has just too much >> it's like that one vice visit and has just too much. That seems to be the the the >> and the system the system restructuring should help. >> We are reporting on every one of those things quarterly. I mean they do get regular updates but I think what the board chair feels and I feel is there's not sufficient time to dig into why and what type of oversight may or may not be occurring as part of that. >> And we've also discussed uh the actual

090report where it just shows us the update with more detail. So, you know, I'm not going to try to tell you folks how to how to break your committees up or what you're going to name them, but it's very difficult for the public when they see committee on student success. What does that mean? What does that include? You know, you don't know budget. You don't know if it's you. It's it's very difficult. So, some of these really nice terms that you folks have named your committees may sound good, but for the general public, even for myself, I have no clue what's in student success. Could be everything, right? The whole whole intent of the university is student success. But yeah, so I was not aware that CIP is under student. So maybe if the public

091had a better idea of what some of these committees actually >> Yeah. >> have oversight of, it would be better because Yeah. So maybe you guys need to talk about that because certainly I think that change is making everybody more confused as to where the responsibilities are and who's doing what as far as committees. Yeah. And I understand combining it. we combined lower ed and higher ed. So, you know, I mean, so we're we're not arguing that, but certainly I think that the board needs to really look at some of these areas in which Yeah. You know, should the vice president have that many positions? And I know you defer it to the president, but I think the board needs to weigh in on some of this because it shouldn't be the legislature. And again,

092if you folks are doing it, then we're not going to do it. I don't want to do it. I don't want to be here and ask these questions. That's your guys's job. But when you don't do it, then we do it. And then if you're not going to do it responsibly, then guess what? We're going to pass a bill. >> That's just the nature of it, right? So a lot of times when we introduce measures, it's kind of like a message. And if the message is heard, then maybe the bill doesn't get passed. Message not heard, then the bills don't pass this year, may pass next year, you know. Um and and it's really troubling. last last year, was it the year before, where we had a compromise with the administration on a certain bill

093and we did certain things, then they went and lobbyed the governor to veto the measure, which to me was very disingenuous and why we have this distrust between the legislature and and the administration. So, we welcome the new leadership that hopefully we won't have that kind of situation again. >> Understood. >> Questions? Okay. Thank you. >> You How we gonna sit there? President Senate Senate Bill 3229. This is on um >> uh donors >> foundation. Yeah. Authorizes the University of Hawaii uh use of University of Hawaii tuition and special fees fund to conduct donor evaluations. requires the related report to the legislature to include any donor evaluations conducted using monies from the fund. And so, President, you're up for Lewis. >> Um, we stand on our testimony and support of this bill. We are we

094welcome the accountability. Uh, we had already begun to discuss how to do this type of donor assessment. Uh, probably using a third party to come in and do some um surveys and and focus groups. So, this is most welcome. >> Okay. I hope it's not going to, you know, they when I hear consultants, I'm like, okay, more more fun. >> Well, you you don't want the same people. >> Yes. No, that's true. So, this is, you know, >> perfect consultant use in this case. >> Okay. Tim Dolan. >> Thank you, chair. Um, as echoed by President Hansel, we stand by our submitted comments on SP 3229. Uh we welcome any suggestions for improving our operations and enhancing donor relations and therefore we have no objections to the bill. >> Okay, good. Thank you. Uh we

095had one Leilani Dlo individual in opposition. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? If not members, any questions? >> Questions? No questions. Okay, very good. We're moving on to the next one. Um Senate Bill 2659. Uh this measure is Board of Regents prohibit active employees of the University of Hawaii or RCU of the University from serving on the board of regents. And we have Ivon Lao or >> it's just comments. >> Okay. Uh and then Scott Collins from HGA in opposition. Um I think that's all. Anyone else wishing to testify on Senate Bill 2659? I was going to call you anyway. So good telepathy. >> Chair, committee members, Gabe Lee, chair of uh Board of Regents, but um speaking as an individual since the board of regents meets next week to um decide

096on bills. um for this um bill um I recommend that um an exception be made for student regions that work part-time as well as um professionals, full-time professionals and their um say like the um doctors or attorneys that are part-time faculty at say um Jabson or Richardson Um both of these would um uh increase the pool of candidates. Thank you. >> Okay, members questions. Wait, don't go. Question. Question. Don't go. Yeah. So, as far as the possibility of conflicts, you don't think that just because they're part-time that it lessens them? the um well we've had it if the regent feels that there is a conflict that they um um excuse theirel from it >> but we haven't seen that in the case of some of the members that are actually employed by the university that

097is sitting on the board. No, we we we've had um incidents where people have um left the room on certain um conversations. >> Okay. Well, one come to mind that that person didn't didn't recuse themselves. So, um but yeah, I guess it's it's a matter of wanting to try, you know, it's like the board of education wants a teacher on Yeah. um or DOE wants a teacher or HSDA wants a teacher on the board of education, you know, it's just that there's and then again there's no no guarantee on how that person is going to to interact, but it's to keep it so that you know retired teachers, retired professors, you know, students that >> then decide they want to after they're stopped employment want to be on. I mean, there are a lot of

098opportunities there. So >> yeah and then for the um the the regents uh I know that they do look through the agenda and they they um take the advice of council if they should also abstain from any um any of the parts of the meeting. >> Okay. Thank you members. Any questions? No. >> Okay. The next item on the agenda I think uh is done. Thank you guys. We shall shift over Senate Bill 3325. This is on the relating to public school Medicaid reimbursements. Requires Department of Education to establish an updated plan for maximizing Medicaid reimbursements for administrative and support services provided to students with special needs. Requires annual reports to the legislature. Um, first up is Keith Aayashi for DOE. Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, members of the board. I'm Heidi Armstrong,

099Department of Education. Um the department supports um Senate Bill 3352. Um we we do agree that transparent um accountability is warranted at this time and um we strongly support this measure. We've put one amendment in our testimony that would make for more um seamless reporting. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Johnny May Perry individual also in support. Is there anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? If not, members questions. So I guess Heidi, if you can come back. So how long how how soon you think that this plan will come to fruition? Okay, we we will um it will come to you as the bill requested 20 days before next legislative session. If we get it earlier, if you want it earlier, we will give it to you. Um I I would like to

100clarify in our amendment which was B the um the um bill asked for the number of eligible administrative and support services provided classified by complex area. Um we can give um in the report the direct services for each complex area but we cannot give the administrative um numbers because it's lumped all in one um bucket. But if you wanted direct services, we could leave that in. But the administrative services um which are all the paperwork that or the um reimbursement for any activity that's done to make sure that service gets delivered that is in one bucket and we wouldn't be able to separate that by complex area or service delivered. >> Okay. And the intent is to ask for reimbursement not just for a one portion that you folks are asking for now. >> Correct.

101Nursing side, right? It's across the board. >> We want to go across the board. We will start out because our nurses are contracted um and that that's our starting point um for um starting up reimbursement services again. Okay. Members, any questions? >> Thank you. Thank you. Senate Bill 3232 relating to university university universal school meals establishes the universal school meals special fund to accept deposits of the Medicaid reimbursement received by the department of education or good afternoon chair vice chair members um Brian how this is superintendent for fiscal services testifying on behalf of the department stands on written testimony which provides comments on this measure, but I would summarize just to say there's support for the intent of universal meals. There's just some technical issues with uh nexus and jeopardizing the current use of of

102those Medicaid dollars. >> Okay, thank you. HST here. Um, Lauren Zerbble on Zoom. >> Not present on Zoom. Chair. >> Okay, we have Brandon Kennard in support and Johnny May Perry also in support. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none questions. Members, Brian, I have questions. Okay. So, if I read the your testimony correctly, uh you mentioned that the cost to for the program where is that appointment agrees with the reporting provision of the bill except clarifying amendment requested for sure. No, that's not it. Where is it? Sorry, I'm looking at the wrong. >> Okay. Well, why don't I just ask this? So, what is the cost to run the this run run the program that the the reimbursements would then pay for? >> I think the revenues are used both

103to maintain the infrastructure, the staffing in order to do the claiming and and support for the processing of that, but as well as to provide capital to to churn through. We I think I believe we have to spend money in order to bring the money back in. Any excess funds historically we've been using to assist with special ed related expenses. Um historically that's that's been in the area of skilled nursing services. So the exact number on on what it costs to to maintain the program I would have to get back to you on. >> Okay. But in light of the fact that we haven't been getting the full reimbursements because we've only done the nursing and the fact that last year or this past year we haven't even collected anything. We've gotten some direct services.

104So how are we paying for the how are we paying for the um ser for the program and what is that cost? >> There's there's a current carryover balance in this fund. Um and this is thanks in part to we had 2.3 million in revenue in 22, 6.4 million in 23, 9.4 4 million in 24 and 2 2.6 million in 25. So because of that historic revenues, that's how we've been able to to weather so far um the the lack of revenue. >> So we could actually take portions of of whatever reimbursements because obviously when we go for the full the full high then we will get a lot more money coming in. >> I think that's what this bill is contemplating. But I but I think the way I read it is it's all

105of the revenues, >> right? But um >> as you know we can amend measures but >> and and it's a lot of use for universal meals but as I mentioned we have been using it for um to offset what we would otherwise require general fund support for in our special education area and and it's been a a good buffer in terms of shortfalls. We were running a shortfall in skilled nursing for example for for a couple of years. Eventually the legislature was able to come through and and assist us with with additional general funds. So, it's a mechanism that that's that's worked. It's a mechanism that currently has uncertainty in future revenues. So, just at this point in time, this this may not be um the best way to fund universal meals is is really

106what we're we're testifying on. >> So, how would you how would you pay for universal meals? >> Oh, boy. Um well I think you know the food service program when when it's not when it requires subsidies to operate the the source we look to is the state general funds for for support. Currently we have a $74 million general fund appropriation to to support that program >> and I would expect that additional assistance would be needed from the state side and and that's estimated about 16 to 26 million. we don't have that monies then what I guess they were looking at how do we how do we fund some of these programs that the community believes is needed that the schools need how do we get that monies to the schools >> I suspect that's part

107of the motivation for for looking at this bill I mean public education unfortunately is not generally a money-m endeavor especially at the the K to2 level um >> but this is this is a creative idea >> so in the areas that we've been living on leaving on the table millions of dollars that have not been asked for and hopefully now with the plan now we focused on it that you know some states have gotten as much as $40 million and I don't know if we're going to get that kind of lump sum but um certainly even a fraction of that is a lot more than what you're getting now to run the programs and you're sitting on some um excess funds and how do we get those funds into the classrooms and uh to the

108to the schools And and that's what that where this spell is coming from, right? I mean, this is one idea. Doesn't have to be meals, could be could be other things, you know, could be teacher pay, could be other kinds of things. So, >> yeah. And certainly with anything you get reimburseed for the nature is you're spending money to make money. Exactly. That's >> But yes, we hear you. >> Okay. Thank you very much, members. Any other questions? Not. So, next item, Senate Senate Bill 2551 requires the teacher education standards board to de develop an alternate pathway for a visiting international educator uh permit aligned to the duration of the educators J1 visa program. I just want to note that Senate Bill 2551 and Senate Bill 2875 are the exact same measures. That's how important

109we thought this measure is. So, we have two bills put on the agenda at the same time, but it is the exact same bill. So, I will take the testifiers for both measures um as uh as I called you. So, um testifying for Senate Bill 2551 and for Senate Bill 2875. So, first up is Amy Alani. Amy testifying for Legal Clinic. >> Aloha. Uh thank you. >> Thank you very much for this opportunity. I uh stand by my testimony. I believe that there is a need uh to address uh teacher shortages and this uh opportunity and resources are are valuable and uh from my um uh experience and and con contacts in the community, I've been told it a very good program and I support it. Okay, thank you. Let's testifier. Douglas Ber also on

110Zoom. >> Yes. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. My name is uh Doug Berer and I am the principal of Lai High and Elementary School and I strongly support both of these bills since as they're being combined on Lai. J1 va teachers filled 21 of our 62 teaching positions. Without them, we would struggle to staff classrooms and maintain instructional continuity. Nearly half of our students, 49%, which is about 306 children, identify as Filipino. Many of our J1 teachers share linguistic, cultural, regional, and family ties with our community. Their ability to communicate with parents in their native language strengthens trust, deepens engagement, and builds authentic school home partnerships that directly supports student success. However, as we know, Hawaii does not recognize foreign teaching licenses or reciprocity and requires additional costs and timesensitive exams.

111These are times that there are times that teachers cannot complete the full lensure within the three-year period. To put this into and and expand for their two-year extension to put this in perspective, consider Professor John Hattie from Australia, New Zealand, the internationally recognized educator, former teacher, administrator, community professor who synthesized over 1,000 metaanalysis on student achievement. >> Okay, Doug, I don't mean to interrupt you, but your time is up and we have a full house of other bills we have to take those. So um if we we might have questions for you. So um thank you. Uh we have next up Keith Hayashi for Yi. >> Good afternoon Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kadani, members of the committee. Sean Bacon speaking on behalf of the department. We stand in support of this bill and are available

112to answer any questions. Thank you. >> Thank you. Mitsy Higa for Hawaii Teacher Standard Board. >> Sorry, good afternoon. Speaking on behalf of the Hawaii Teacher Standards Board. We stand in opposition to both of these bills. Um, we can already the board can already do this and we do. We license and we permit J1 teachers all the time. Um so this is putting it into law is unnecessary and that's um what the board has decided. Um they have they can actually bring this idea up and they have in the past but they have not um they they didn't feel a need to enact it. Anyone from anywhere can get a license or permit as long as they meet the criteria. And we already have people in our state that are J1 visa holders that do

113have permit or license. Um the problem being that some of them we're just looking at the list um because we were asked to look and we looked at the list and there's a secondary mathematics teacher teaching second grade and and there's teachers for secondary math or English teaching special ed. That's a problem. So that's something we're looking but it's not our decision because by law emergency hire permit they can be the DOE can hire them and put them there. But um that's concerning for us because we're about high quality education and that's the vision and mission of the Hawaii Teacher Standards Board. So thank you. >> Probably call you back for questions. Okay. >> Uh Christina Sablan in support testifying for the legal clinic. Not here. Okay. And we have one, two, three others that

114have uh signed up. Um one opposed and two in support. They're not here to testify. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Okay. If not, um, you want to come back up members, any questions? No. Okay. So, if this bill is not needed, then why why do we have why do you think these bills have been introduced? I don't know. I mean, honestly, um, maybe because they're not aware that it's already available and already happening and the board already has that authority, perhaps. Um there is a teacher shortage and we are concerned with that and we have been working on apprenticeship and writing grants and everything trying to get our grow our own that Kadani started out in on the west side. We're still trying to grow that still and we're trying to

115actually fund it because we found one of the problems was that these teachers during student teaching they weren't paid. So but through the apprenticeship program they have to be paid. They can't leave the classroom. And that was why we went for that because we realized that was a burden to them and a barrier. So we are trying but just in different ways. >> Okay. Well, it's just that you know it's come to our attention and obviously that's why the bills are here that there seem to be a lot of obstacles and so we're trying to you know work around those and a lot of times we end up having to do legislation because one sometimes that just having a bill introduced will bring up the discussion and maybe change can happen. Uh other times it

116is because people are frustrated because things aren't moving the way it should be. Um so then we have more than one as you can see there's two and I know there were other bills uh that was introduced like this. Um, you know, we had a situation where we we had a complaint that um this teacher has been teaching and then went to get her her credentials um or her license and then um she was denied and the and the remedy was that she had to repeat her student teaching. But she's already teaching and she's been teaching. So to me and then she'd have to pay more money to get that student teaching. And so sometimes I guess what I'm trying to say is that the board we need to be able to get the board

117to look at some of these cases and be flexible because we do have a teacher shortage and we do need good teachers in the classrooms and when they cannot get their license after jumping through all the hoops then it it's it's even more exacerbated for them as well as for for the students. >> Yes, Senator Kedani. >> So is there an appeal process for these teachers? >> There is. And how how many of them go through the appeal process and when? >> That's a good question. I haven't looked, but there have been a few that have been um they present their case to the board and they do let them have an additional year, but there is a there is a way that they can do it if they meet the criteria. >> So So

118does HSTA um assist these teachers to help? >> I'm with HTSB now, but HSTA does try to assist. Yeah. Is there is there an agency that can help them through the process? Cuz some of these uh teachers are not citizens >> and they want to become citizens and stay here and teach and we God help us know that we need the teachers. >> I agree. And so we have been as a board we have been helping them by telling them early on like what they need to do, giving them links to the approved programs if they need them, but most of them from other countries don't need them. They just need to take the practice. Um we recently saw an email that DOE is offering them study help which I think is ideal um that

119they get this study help and some have even taken their practice before like at least one of the practice before they came to the US and that was a good thing. So they need more support and guidance. Some principles have been really good about um paying for the practice once they pass as well. I think they use title two funds for that. At least that's what my principal used to do. Senator Ash. >> So, I'm confused. You're saying that some principles are passing are paying for it, but when your executive director was here, she said everyone gets it. So, what's the truth? >> You would have to ask the DOE because I don't know. >> Your executive director is the one who said that. >> I don't know. >> Maybe you should go back and

120you should find out what she meant by that because >> she knows about that particular subject. I'm sure you go back to the tape and go watch. She said that they pay right for and if you want to take the practice the DOE reimbures now >> blanket statement and now you're saying it's only served in schools. I that's my >> personality the crux of the whole issue is you ca we came we had this bill last year it's a year later I'm still trying to grasp what did HTSB do in that one-year period to make any progress in this space any progress >> for the teacher shortage we've been working on the apprentichip specific I've heard in the teacher apprenticeship program that you guys can't even spend on the money >> we're not allowed to

121spend on it until consult and confer is finished which it's finally finished but now we wait for the unions to Okay. And so so when are you going to start spending down that money? >> Once they sign. >> Okay. So So my point is what have you done in the last year? That's tangible. >> Believe me, we've been working on that a lot. That's part of >> But if you've done nothing, if you've done nothing though because if if you're just waiting, that does not help us in this situation. So that's why I'm just if your board doesn't understand why it's important. I don't see why they're not here to understand what our questioning is, what our concerns are. reading the testimony. >> Just so you know, they did set up an appointment with your

122office. >> I understand it. It's about time. They met with They're setting it up because they want confirmation before this committee. There's no one who's been proactive about the J1 program. >> They want to make sure they understand everything and they're come before this committee for confirmation. And now we're going to ask the tough questions of why they didn't do anything over the last year. Right. So I I just want tangible information, right? You guys put a moratorum in place on new teacher training programs. You're relying on the DOE, right, to to do the training to to study for the practice. Why didn't HTSB do something like that? If you feel it is so important, why didn't you start doing some type of pathway training to help these individuals who want to get their practice,

123you know, help them? Help them other than just guiding them. Why don't you set up some type of class for them, right? Be proactive. That's all we're asking you to be is be proactive. Be proactive. >> Thank you, chair. >> You're welcome. Any others? If not, thank you very much. >> Thank you. Great. >> See you know others. I'm going to ask for your indulgence. I know you folks, some of you here have been waiting a long time. We do have a measure right after is Senate Bill 2549. This is on student transportation and Senator um Hashimoto has some amendments for that and he has to leave um to catch a plane. So I'm going to take it out of order just that one. We only have three testimonies. Should go fast. So Senate Bill

1242549. 2549. Student transportation authorized Department of Education to hire a new contractor if a contractor under a student transportation contract fails to provide service on a contracted route for five or more consecutive instructional days requires the department to assess a penalty if a contractor fails to provide service on a contracted route without approved uh justification. And so we have attorney general uh Anne Huruchi on this measure. Thank you for being here in person. >> Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, members, and Horuchi from the Attorney General's office. Um, on this measure, what we noted is that um, it establishes significant consequences for non-performance. Um, to promote clarity and reduce the likelihood of disputes, we thought it would be best to um, add a section to the bill that requires express reference to the new

125statute in DOE solicitations and contracts for student transportation services. and we provided language in our testimony. Okay, thank you. >> Thank you very much. We have Bonnie Kokoy on Zoom procurement office not here. Bonnie, >> good. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, member of the committee. Bonnie Kokoy, administrator, state procurement office. We will stand by a written testimony providing comments. Thank you. >> Thank you. Jay Keith Hayashi for Department of Education. Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, Senator Hashimoto, Shantima, Assistant Superintendent, testify on behalf of the Department of Education. The department stands on its written testimony, which provides comments on this measure. We have concerns about removing individual bus routes given the current contract structure, which may put us at risk for improper termination of part of a contract. We also have concerns about procurement integrity and

126transparency with the 30-month procurement exception. And ultimately, we're not sure if this is the appropriate approach to use at this time to address the root cause, which is a nationwide school bus driver shortage. We stand by for questions. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to testify on Senate Bill 2549? Hearing none, we are open for questions. Senator Hashimoto, >> State Procurement, please. Bonnie, I don't know if you're still there. >> I'm still here. >> Can Can you elaborate on your concern with that it's it's redundant in the statute? So, do they does the DOE have some of these powers already to enforce these routes? >> Yes. I don't know what Thank you, Senator, for the question. I don't know what the actual solicitation said, but the statute and rules does

127allow the agency to terminate for default um for goods and services in part or in whole. So he depending how it's fashioned, they could have terminated the this part of the contract if those say those particular routes were not performing and there are they could have also used performance bonds. Again, I'm not sure if that was part of the original solicitation that if they did not perform, there was a fall back for them, but it already spelled out not only in the rules, uh, if they use the AG's terms and conditions, that's also spelled out in termination for default. >> So, so why did why did we need when we had the bus shortage, why did we need an emergency proclamation from the governor then? I couldn't answer that because I'm not sure what superintendent

128uh said to the governor that prompted this, but again, that was it is allowed already in statute and rules. >> So, they they could take a current route if it's non-p performing, only a route, not the whole contract, and then they could they could find an alternative means to to fill that route with another vendor. >> Again, without knowing exactly what the contract said. the statute allows the root the rules and statutes allow for you to terminate in part or and or whole. So maybe that particular route was I don't know how they packaged together but it does allow them that option to terminate not they don't have to terminate the whole contract they could have terminated parts of it and it was up to the procurement officer to make that determination. So can they

129do it temporarily or it has to be a straight cancellation >> temporarily cancel the contract? You can stop performance >> the portions or you can portion. >> Oh, the portions, >> right? Cuz we're trying to apply a real world, right? Real world example here, right? A bus route is not being, >> you know, fulfilled. So, you want to break off that route so you can actually get someone to do that route. So, all we're asking is can they do that? And if not, then maybe we do need this. But if you're saying it's there, then we need to understand that, too. the the rules allow you to temporarily suspend and the rules also allow you to issue a notice to cure. So you can issue a notice to cure saying if you don't if you

130don't make correct take corrective action within a certain time period we will go to default or to full termination. >> Okay. Okay. Maybe we had to bring up DOE then. Okay. So, so DOE why why don't you use this more often then if you if you if they are claiming that you have this power. >> So just to clarify how our contracts are we don't contract by routes. No, I understand. Right, when we said we we you can break part of the contract up, right? We know that you're doing a whole probably I don't know complex area, but we're talking about if there's certain routes, which that's the problem, right? If you if you if you're non-performing, SPO is apparently claiming you can do that, >> but I we just need to understand why you're

131not doing that and what do you then need to then be able to just fill those routes. So going back to our contract again, we don't contract specific routes. >> The contract structure, we contract drivers and buses. So basically what that allows us to do, the way we pay the contractor is basically in 4hour blocks. So we pay the the bus in 4-hour blocks. It's 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon. The contract doesn't have the specific routes. So what that does, it allows us to create the route and we can change routes. We can tell the bus company that we because we're short right now, we can say we want drivers on this route and not on that route. So we don't have specific routes in the contract. So that's why

132it's I know what you're what you're trying to do and we appreciate the effort. It's just that it doesn't fit the current contract structure. >> Okay. So So what do you need then? Because that's that was their question to the DOE. What do you need? this is what you gave back and now you're saying you don't want it but we still have a problem. So the the question is is what do you need to for us to fix this problem and that if you need if there is an issue like this you have a pathway for remedy right we're asking you what is the remedy and you need to give us a solution because we're on year three of having bus problems right >> correct um well yes so as far as what we need

133and we don't want to do more of the same >> yes exactly That's why we have this bill, >> right? So, I know I know we I had shared in the previous testimony that it was a six-year downward trend in losing bus drivers. And so, that was that was a more of the same. In six years, we lost 230 bus drivers. So, something different was done last year, which on credit to our bus companies, they worked with us and they provided significant financial incentives for the drivers. So they raised the wages, they gave paid training, they gave signing bonuses, they gave guaranteed hours. That's resulted in a big upswing. So with a six-year trend of losing 230 drivers in one year to now, we've gained 69 drivers. So to me, as far as what we

134need as far as a a bill like this, I think there already has been a change that has taken a place and it has resulted in an increase in bus drivers. I think I appreciate this extreme measure to basically force accountability on bus companies. I think it's good to have in our back pocket as something we may need down the line. I think at this time because our bus companies are working with us and doing something different and it's producing results. I say we stay the course and let this work. >> And I don't buy that because part of the reason So what's going to happen is whenever you go in for a renewal, that's when you're going to have problems. So, so to me, you're looking at it in such a short-term view that

135you need to be looking at how do we fix the problem for the long term, right? Because that's when we had the big issues when we switched over contracts, right? So, if you're not thinking about that into the future and you think it's fine now, I'm very concerned, right? So, so you need to understand what are the structural changes that you need to completely fix the bus problem. It's, as I said, 3 years. I think the legislature is very tired of us getting the calls right before school because it's it's it's last minute, right? It's it's not like you're telling us months in advance. You're telling us like two weeks before, one week before and they call us, right? And so we're frustrated. So we're telling you assistant superintendent, we need to fix this, right?

136And so to give me that answer, I don't buy it. >> So I know you're addressing a three-year concern. So, this is a six-year trend going down and it's upswing after this past year. >> I understand you didn't listen to the first part, though. You have to be looking at when you do the next bus renewal. >> You're talking about after the this contract that we have right now. >> That's right. What do you have in your back pocket if they do the same thing to you that they're like, "Oh, yeah. Of course, we're going to do this." They get the contract and then they don't deliver. What are you going to do then? >> So, I know the concern is that they're not fulfilling the contract, right? Which is a concern. I think on

137the bigger scheme of it, that's a concern from us also and we're not we're not condoning that, but in the bigger picture, the big concern is there's a nationwide shortage of bus drivers. You know, >> we we heard that how many times we're asking you what do you need? And if you're going to tell us nothing, I'm very concerned. >> So, we don't need >> because the last we had the other bill which was to then give grants. You said no, right? It got deferred. >> We're trying this. And if you tell us no on this and you just want status quo, there's probably going to be problems next year. >> Well, status quo is not status quo cuz something did change last year and it's it's promoting results. >> That's just it. I'm telling

138you, it did not work in my community, right? And I'm talk we're talking about neighbor island communities. We're talking about also the big island, right? We still have problems. So why you're telling me that you're okay with not doing anything? I am very very concerned. No, we're we're not not doing anything. And I think for a specific routes, it has gotten better on on every island. In fact, for specifically for your area, Senator, I think from Maui, >> last year, we were short >> 28 W and now we're short two. >> I All right. You know the story of what I had to do at the beginning of this school year. So, don't give me that with the problems of all the Hawaiian immersion kids, right? That was on you guys. So, if you guys

139if you don't feel that you you want to work on something to bring us, which I I met with you guys early on as soon as that incident happened, this was the bill that you guys brought and now you don't want it. Something's wrong. >> Sorry, did you clarify? We brought this bill. >> The DO I asked the DOE after the meeting. You were there on what bill? What do you need to fix this problem? And this is the bill that was that was presented to us. >> Okay. Sorry, I don't recall proposing this plan. >> Okay. Well, maybe you need to go talk to the DOE leadership and get on the same page and figure out >> what we need to do with this bill, right? And so we can actually do something about

140the bus situation. We will I I think my my concern with the bill in in forcing compliance on the contractors right now because of the efforts that they're doing and just to share some of the specific efforts that they're doing in addition to the financial incentives is given the shortage what some of them are doing is um they're subcontracting other uh tour buses to fulfill certain routes. So one of our contractors >> That's right. which we approved last year. >> Right. So, some of them are still paying for that, which I think I'm concerned about the the daily fines aspect. >> I understand. But if you're not going to fulfill the routes, then something has to happen. Some people need to be scared that if they don't fulfill the routes, there is going to be

141a penalty. >> So, the the amount that they're investing to cover those routes is more than the fine. So, they're already working with us to try to fulfill these routes. >> I understand. But there are people who are still without buses. >> I understand. >> Right. So until we fix that solution, I don't think the legislature is going to be happy with this with us not continuing the pressure to make sure that all those bus routes get restored. >> Correct. And that's our goal too is to have all of them restored. >> Right. So we want to give you the tools and if you're saying you don't want the tools, that is very very concerning. >> I think it's the it's the approach is what we have a hard time with. >> Okay. So if

142you don't like the approach, then give us an approach, but we want a bill. >> I don't Well, I'm just figure it out. Hopefully with the chair's indulgence, we'll pass this along. But I'm I'm hoping that you guys can figure out what you need and come back. >> Wait till Wednesday. We'll defer this measure and wait through Wednesday so we can put the amendments in that you will come up with. >> All right. Thank you, chair. >> Thank you. No other questions. Thank you very much. Okay. Here we go. So we are on Senate Bill 3334. This is uh relating to education. Repeals the complex area superintendent position. clarifies that the school community council shall submit principal evaluation to superintendent of education who shall have final authority to appoint principal requires department of education to

143adopt rules. Uh first on the agenda we have Keith Aayashi from department of education in opposition. Good afternoon, Chair Kedani, Vice Chair Kim, Kim, I'm sorry, Senator K, Chair Kedani, Vice, No, Chair Kim, >> Chair Kim. >> Okay, three times a charm. I'll start over. >> Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, and Senator Hashimoto. I'm Heidi Armstrong, Department of Education. The department stands on its written testimony in opposition of this measure. Um, eliminating the complex area superintendence would dismantle the regional leadership structure credited with driving academic gains resulting in a loss of critical oversight, operational stability and support for school principles. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> Thank you. Appreciate your brevity. Uh, we have Hawaii State Board of Education, Buoie Hello comments. >> Thank you so much. Um, hello Chair Kim,

144Vice Chair Gidani, and Senator Hashimoto. I am Bill Aaraki, vice chair of the board of education. The board stands on his testimony offering comments on this measure and we strongly believe having complex area superintendent leadership within our communities is very important to support the schools staff, students, parents, and partners. Uh thank you so much and if you have any questions, let me know. >> Thank you. Okay, I'm going to go to the people on Zoom right now. Uh starting off with Akawi Asin. Are you >> not present on Zoom? Chair. >> Okay. Not present. Um we have uh Germaine Meyers >> also not present. >> Not present. Okay. Both were in support. We have Corey Takakei on Zoom in opposition. Corey. >> Good afternoon. Vice Chair, Chair, and members of the committee. My name is

145Corey Takakei, and I'm a high school principal on Hawaii Island. I'm here in opposition to SB 3334. As a sitting principal on Hawaii Island, I want to share what this proposal looks like from the school level. Having a complex area superintendent who understands our complex, our feeder patterns, and our community context provides critical instructional leadership and operational support. Removing that layer would not streamline the system. I believe it would reduce responsiveness and create greater instability. I also want to emphasize that as a neighbor island complex, we already operate on limited resources and with less immediate access to central office support. The cash structure provides contact uh context specific leadership that understands the geographic and staffing realities that we face. Eliminating that support would widen inequities between Oahu and Outer Island schools and create more instability

146where consistency and strong leadership is essential. Regarding the principal evaluation and selection, I believe that clear systems already exist and the CISA evaluation process is already in place with collective bargaining. Uh principal selection procedures are also already in place. uh from the perspective of someone responsible for the daily operation and long-term success of a high school community, I believe that this bill would reverse progress rather than strengthen our system. So, I respectfully urge you to oppose SB 3334. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> Thank you. Uh Gary Kamorei. >> Hello, chair and members. Uh my name is Gary Kamorei. a product of Maui public schools, a parent of current public school students, and the principal of Pukalani Elementary School. Uh I am writing in personal opposition to SP 3334. Uh I served as

147a principal of Princess Nahana and uh in LA during the wildfires where twothirds of my students and one-third of my staff lost their homes. My CAS, Dr. Rebecca Winky and BKKM Cass Caz Des provided the leadership we needed uh to survive really. Even though even though Dr. Winky lost her own home in the fire. Uh she and Casides never stopped leading our complexes. Together they managed the coordination between FEMA, Army Corps of Engineers, EPA, uh work that's way far beyond the capacity of any school um any of our schools. They're pretty much a vital extension of the state superintendent's leadership. And I feel like without this bridge, a principal is forced to choose between navigating all the bureaucracy or being present in their schools. So I urge you to maintain that current structure of our

148school's support. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Richard Krosos. >> Richard, are you on? >> They're on Zoom chair, but it seems like they're unavailable at the moment. >> Okay, we'll go to late Zoom. Alan Kumalai >> not present on Zoom. Chair >> not present on Zoom in support. Okay, we shall move on. We have uh Corey Allen in person from Nimmitz. Welcome. >> All right. Uh dear Madam Chair and committee members, the average size of a school district in the United States serves roughly 5,000 students. For comparison's sake, superintendents of these school districts serve a collection of schools or communities that our complex area superintendent serve. However, our numbers outweigh the average significantly. As a principle in the DOE, my one school of 575 students exists in one complex which consists of seven elementary

149schools, one middle school, and one high school. This complex exists in a complex area of roughly three middle schools, three high schools, and between 10 to 11 elementary 10 to 15 elementary schools. This implies that whoever leads the complex area oversees over 10,000 students conservatively. Should this bill pass, these numbers would multiply at least two to threefold in regards to the responsibility a district superintendent would have to take on. If your bill claims to lessen the administrative burden of the department, then it is misguided. As a principal of the Hawaii Department of Education, I stand opposed to this bill. Thank you. >> Thank you, Joseph Pasantino. Hope I said that correctly. >> Yes, ma'am. Pastantino. >> Aloha. My name is Joe Pasantino. I'm the principal of your neighbor middle school, Kaylee Kani Middle School, right

150down the street. I stand before you today not just as a principal, but as an educator who has dedicated over 20 years of my life to Hawaii's public schools. As a teacher, a vice principal, and now a principal. I'm here to speak strongly and personally in opposition of Senate Bill 3334. Every single day in our schools is a challenge. Some days it's a child in crisis. Some days it's a parent who is hurting and frustrated. And some days it's staffing shortages, safety concerns, or serious instructional needs. Many of the many of those days, it all happens at once. Through every one of those moments, my complex area superintendent has been my lifeline. She is not just an administrator. She is my direct support, my coach, my problem solver, and the person I turn to when

151decisions are heavy and the stakes are high. over our Cass oversees 29 schools. Yet, she still answers my calls, responds to my emails, and shows us when schools need help. When a crisis happen, I don't have time to wait through layers of bureaucracy. I need leadership. I need guidance. I need someone who understands schools and stands with us. And that is exactly what the Cass does. So, when I hear this proposal to eliminate the position, my honest question is, who will help when a student is in danger? Who will help step in when a parent situation escalates? and who will guide us through legal staffing and instructional challenges that happen every single day. Cuz eliminating CAS does not eliminate the problems in our schools. It only eliminates the support. After 20 years in education, I

152tell you with certainty that this job is harder than it has ever been. Our students have greater needs. Our families are under more stress and our staff are exhausted and doing their best to hold it together. The cat is the glue that holds >> leadership together across schools. I love my school. I love my students. I love this profession and I'm in opposition of Santa Fe quickly. >> Thank you. >> Sorry to interrupt chair. We have Mr. Carroso on Zoom available. >> Oh, okay. We'll go back to Zoom. Please proceed. >> Aloh our chair and members of the committee. My name is Richard Kamaroso and I am the principal of La Hina High School and I am here today to strongly oppose Senate Bill 334. In the wake of the Lahina Luna fires, uh the

153complex area was superintendent was not just an administrator but she was a vital lifeline principles, our schools, our students and our families. The Cass acted as a link and a buffer between the many organizations be it FEMA, MIMA, EPA, private donors, the media involved in the recovery as well as a critical connection between us and the crucial state support we needed. Removing the cast position seems to be about the size and structure of the complex area system. But I believe that as it currently stands, it is perfectly designed to allow for local agility and responsiveness. And most importantly, it fosters close trusting relationships between the Cass and the principles, which I believe was the most important factor for our schools responding in a time of crisis. The trile system was designed specifically to act in

154the way it did after the line of fires. And for these reasons, I strongly oppose SB 3334. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you very much. Um we do have Alan Kumalai who was on Zoom but they're here in person and Mrs. Kumalai would want to um testify. So yes, please. >> Aloha. >> Can you identify yourself? >> Yes. >> My name is Lynette Kumalai. I am a Khalif Valley resident and I'm also a volunteer at the Kaibai Elementary School. Uh my husband and I also serve in the SEC, school committee council. I am writing in strong support of SB 3334 and to share concerns about how school leadership is currently set up based on on what I have seen in my beloved Khali district. The Department of Education has too many layers of

155bureaucracy and the higher up decisions are made, the more disconnected leadership can feel from students and families. This has been clear in the way the Cass overseeing schools in my district operates. Oversight issues and administrative decisions often come from a narrow point of view including facing people in leadership roles roles like principles who are friends instead of responding to person who can best lead the school and has an understanding of the community where the students reside and who can relate to the students and faculty. Hiring the wrong person has led to retirements and loss of teachers and administrators. Repealing the Cass position could help by bringing accountability closer to the school level. Right now, the superintendent does not have a clue as to what the Cass is doing and is totally disconnected from what is

156going on in the schools. In my experience, principles are deferring many decisions to the Cass who does not have a strong understanding of the students and families being affected. >> Can I ask you to summarize if you can? Can you summarize please? Um basically um coming from Kalihi res um attending schools Khalikai Kalakawa Farington I always felt a sense of belonging and pride and it really saddens me when I talk to students um who tell me they don't feel like they belong or they don't feel you know that they are their culture is being embraced and so I feel like um one of the most concerning effects is the disconnect. Okay. >> So, I hope that you know by support of this bill that we can make it better for the kids and they want

157to come to school and feel good about themselves. >> Thank you for letting me appreciate you being here. Thank you, >> Tim. Hosoda. >> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, senator. Um, my name is Tim Hosa, principal PWA Elementary School and I'm uh writing or testifying opposing this bill. Uh, I speak to you not only as the principal, but I also worked in the state office the past two years from 2023 to 2025 and I can tell you from working in the state office, executive leadership is very busy and they do not have the capacity to take on the role of 258 schools and all the uh daily demands that go with it. Uh just for an example, one of the situations that I recently had to deal with, I had to reach out to my

158Cass late on a Friday night and she was responsive. She followed up with me again on Monday. Uh we have situations so vital to student success and student safety. Uh in this particular case, the family is so thankful that our cal responded so quickly that we were able to provide the support that it's maybe a little dramatic to say life-changing and life-saving, but this kid was on the verge of a collapse. And the supports we provided, they're so thankful that we were able to give the support that we did in a timely manner. And this is just one school of 258. And if we're going to save students lives, I think the CAS position is something that's desperately needed because we want to do what's best, not just for our students education, but for their

159safety as well. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Uh Jennifer Ichyama, >> welcome. >> Hi. Good afternoon. Afternoon. >> Um my name is Jennifer Ichyama. I'm a principal at Aliani Elementary. Um I stand by my written testimony in strong opposition of Senate Bill 3334. um and instead engage principles, CAS, educators, and community stakeholders in a thoughtful dialogue to strengthen not dismantle effective leadership structures within the Hawaii um Department of Education. Thank you. Thank you, >> Bruce uh Nagua, followed by Sonia Samson Solonus. Aloha. >> Aloha. Aloha. Um, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, members of the committee. My name is Bruce Nagua and I strongly oppose Senate Bill 3334. You know, as a former deputy superintendent for the LER district, I understand the complexities of dealing with six different complex areas um at over

16045 schools. In a current situation with the CASES, I think they have a better understanding, a better feel for each individual school. They have each school has unique needs and when you spread across the district, it's hard to really respond to everyone's unique needs. And so I really strongly oppose um the elimination of the CAS position. I'm also opposed to allowing the SEC to have 50% say in the selection and evaluation of the principles. Again, my fear is that one or two individuals um may have certain agendas and I don't think that's um a good way to select principles. So, I strongly oppose Senate Bill 3334. Thank you. >> Thank you, Sonia Samsonus. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. My name is Sonia Samson. I'm the proud principal of Kovala Elementary

161School, and I respectfully stand in opposition of Senate Bill 3334. These proposed changes would weaken the structure that supports school effectiveness and student success. Our CASES, they serve as a critical bridge between schools and the department of education. They help us and provide instructional leadership, operational oversight, compliance, guidance and direct support to us the principles and eliminating CAS positions would remove an essential layer of system coherence and the shift significant responsibility to principles without increasing authority or capacity. Strong schools require lines of accountability, align leaderships and professional expertise and personnel process. SP 3334 risks destabilizing those structures at a time when schools need stability and coherence. For these reasons, I respectfully urge you to oppose 3334. Thank you, Lero District Education Specialists. Nobody here for that. Okay, those are all that actually signed up. I

162will ask if there's anyone watching to testify, but we actually had members for your information. Um 11 in support, 131 opposed and one comment. So with that, is there anyone here in this room wishing to testify on this measure? Please come forward, identify yourself. >> Aloha. >> Good to see you, >> chair and members. My name is John Hamilton, proud principal at Khali Elementary. On behalf of the Ferington Kaiser Colani complex, we stand proud on our written testimony in opposition of SB 3334. >> Okay. Anyone else? Please come forward. Identify yourself. >> Hello, my name is Christopher Bonella, principal of Holamo Elementary School in the Campbell Capo Complex area. As the principal of Holo Holmo Elementary School, I submit this testimony to express my firm opposition to SB 33334. Beyond the logistical and admin administrative

163concerns, I speak to you from the moral imperative of school leadership, the duty to protect equitable access to education and to ensure that school governance is rooted in professional integrity void of any hidden agendas and past unresolved conflicts. School leadership does not exist in a vacuum. The CAS serves as more than a more than a supervisor. They are a vital connective tissue that prevents our schools from becoming isolated into silos. For Holamua, this role is a matter of equity. As the sole remaining multi-track school in the DOE, Holua has many multiaceted intricacies. The CAS provides a critical source of advocacy, navigating the complexities of our schedule while balancing the demands of future campus expansion through highlevel coordination with state leadership and private entities. There is an ethical risk without the CAS. The burden of systematic

164advocacy falls solely on the schools. There is a consequence. We risk a fragmented system where schools are forced to complete compete for resources and influence leading to leadership burnout, diminished morale and a breakdown of communication communication necessary for student achievement. >> Okay, I mean to interrupt, but can you summarize your time is >> Moreover, I specifically oppose the expansion of the SEC authority. The CAS possesses the technical expertise and wheelhouse knowledge required to evaluate principles. By shifting this authority to the SEC, we invite a dour of questionable initiatives that might be driven by personal opinion rather than educational best practices. What is best for students? Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else, please? >> Aloha, senators. My name is Adria Maderas, born and raised on in the Kau Pajoa complex area, and I am the

165proud principal and alumni of Mountain View Elementary School in the Big Island. I stand by my written testimony and strong opposition to SB 3334. As one of the few testifiers today traveling from a neighbor island, I want to emphasize how critical complex area superintendent are, especially for schools outside of Aahu. For those of us leading rural campuses, distance is not just a geograph a geographic issue. It affects access, responsiveness, and understanding of local realities. Cass leadership provides immediate regionally grounded support when crises arise or complex operational decisions must be made. In fact, my CAS has been my mentor for 20 years throughout my entire career. That level of relationship, proximity, and contextual knowledge cannot be replicated through centralized leadership alone. Eliminating this structure of mentorship will not streamline our system. It will fragment it and

166weaken support, especially for rural and neighbor island schools. I respectfully urge the committee to oppose passage SB 3334. Mahalo. >> Thank you. Aloha, Chair Makim, Vice Chair Kadani, members of the board. >> My name is Neil Batad. I'm the principal of Malani Elementary School up in Makailo, um, a school in the Campbell Capo complex as well as a community member in my area. I stand on my written testimony as well as the submitted testimony of collective testimony of our 18 complex principles. Our complex area superintendent is intimately familiar with our 18 schools, the unique needs of our students and communities, and the complex challenges we face in our quest to ensure a quality education for all. This includes the fast and continued growth of the Campbell Capo area. Our complex area superintendent is a direct

167line of support for our 18 principles and ensures our individual voices and concerns are heard and recognized by upper leadership. SB 3334, which removes the complex area superintendent, does more to harm principles and schools rather than support us. And Senator Kim, as you said, tomorrow is Valentine's Day. I just want to let you know I love my complex area superintendent. >> Well said. Thank you. Anyone else? >> Uh, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kadani, Senator Deort, and Senator Hashimuro. As principal of Eva Makai, I'm Corey Barton and part of the compbo complex. We stand on our written testimony in opposition to this bill. To highlight this, this bill disrupts the essential leadership pipeline. It also risks politicizing the selection and decision-making of the principal, compromising the integrity of the principal. The Cass provides high level coordination

168required to lead dynamic schools and the highest student population in Hawaii. The SEC currently has participation in the principal selection and does provide some evaluation of the principal already. We stand by our to answer any questions we have regarding our written testimony. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else? >> Hey, good afternoon. Zachary Sheets, principal of Wala High School, and I'm representing Wahoo Complex and we stand on our written testimony in opposition of bill 3334. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify? Okay, with that we're going to go into questions members and I thank all of you for your uh patience and I know it's been a long day for you guys as well. Um so we want to start with um Department of Education. >> Is there a reason why the

169superintendent is not here? I know he's back from his trip. >> Um I I think he's in flight right now. >> He's in flight. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, Heidi, why do you think we're here and why do you think this bill has been introduced? >> Um, I I would ask that you would tell me that we didn't introduce this. >> No, I know, but again, you know, we we just don't introduce measures just because we we dream it up or whatever. We get complaints, we get concerns. We've talked with the superintendent. We've talked with you folks on many occasions and things don't change. And so a lot of times that's what happens. Measures get put together because of that. And so um you know so we're sitting here um concerned and wondering you know

170that there if there's there's problems obviously in the system that we've made aware made the superintendent aware of uh board of education and changes are not occurring and then we get we see how the trips and and costs and expenses um you know we're not getting reimbursements for Medicaid. There's a lot of issues that is going on with the DOE and so um yeah so again what is the leadership of the DOE doing so that we are not faced with these kinds of measures. >> Well regarding complaints and um yes Senator Kim you do let um the the state office know when you get complaints. We do um look into each complaint and address it appropriately. a complaint needs to be um investigated often or or may maybe or maybe not there's another side to

171the story. Um complaints um sometimes are are many times are legitimate and we have to take appropriate action and the department has procedures and processes if a practice a policy um a law has been violated. Um sometimes complaints are of personal interest or of personal wishes. And while that may be very important to the um complaintant um it's it's not something that would require a school to make a change. Somebody might have a a passion for something the school is not doing is or is not doing. That's handled in a different way. Um, but I do ask that as could you any of you do receive complaints, we do have a process that works to do the investigation and either um to address the situation and either um make the required changes because there is

172validity to the complaint or share the reason why the situation will remain status quo. >> Okay. It's not so much a specific complaint but a structural structural complaints uh process types complaints the fact that DOE has put on uh two more deputies and the cost for that and how does that actually go down to the schools and to the principles and how does that empower them? Um there's there's a lot of concerns about that. Um and so again and as I told uh we don't we don't want to be here. I don't want to introduce this measure. I don't want to have to sit here and you know I respect all of the principles and all of your point of views. And I've had calls from other principles who have said that they received you

173know emails. They've received a a template asking them to testify to send in testimony. Some of them felt intimidated by it. Um they fear retaliation um from the cases as well. Um and so these are concerns um that come to us and I've heard from my colleagues which is why this measure introduced about their particular situation with their particular cases or or um structure that is going in in their areas. So it's it's not just a one one person kind of measure. Um, yes, my name's on the bill, but as the chair of the committee, that's my responsibility as far as representing what are some of the changes and perhaps just the fact that the bill is introduced that we might be able to get some changes. Um, and you know, I know their um

174testimonies have come based on what is in the bill, but it's a work in progress as to looking at well, if not the Casses, then what, right? What's the replacement? And I think I would hope that that's some of the concerns that would raise here. Is there a better way of doing this? But I will open up to questions. >> Yeah. So I'm noticing Heidi that your tune is changing a little bit. Um because when we bring issues uh to yourself or to the superintendent, we are met with excuses. So when I had brought to this committee in front of the superintendent the fact that kids are graduating with fourth grade reading level, graduating high school now with fourth grade reading level. When I bring to your attention that the absentee rate in my uh

175area is completely unacceptable, you meet me with saying it's a community issue. So I I you sound a little bit more like you're willing to collaborate and cooperate where before uh you were more inclined to give us excuses and reasoning asking me to give you the names of the kids where this is a this is a this is a a structural problem. This is not just a one kid situation. We've talked to you many times about the lack of sped teachers in the classrooms and how they're changing the teachers on the students. The parents don't know. So the kid goes home and they respond negatively. They don't know why. So they come to the school and then they find out that the teacher has been switched. So um I'm happy to see that the principles

176are willing to come out and thank you all very much uh for coming out. Um, I think that if your department was more able to rally up the principles on uh other very positive bills, um, like the student authored book, if you were to let the principles know on how maybe that might be an option for our students, then maybe that's something that they could also participate in. Um but right now uh it it doesn't seem as though we're getting the answers that we need. So um seeing the overwhelming support to stand behind the cases, then maybe it's not the casses that's the problem. Maybe it's you. Maybe you're the problem cuz the buck kind of stops with you, right? >> Um it many things do stop with me. Yes. >> Mhm. >> But thank

177you for sharing your opinion. Um I do ask that when when um to address your um concerns about you know you shared about students who had particular situations. It is very helpful when we do get because then we can follow up on a situation or situations the blanket statements don't help us. Um chronic absenteeism is a definite problem. um research came out as early as this week that just confirms in communities that have high homeless populations, it is it's nationwide is it it is a significant problem and I do believe the state works and the department works very hard in providing many supports to help families who struggle to get their children to school or who have barri barriers that prevent them from getting to school. And so we continue to deploy those. We can't

178make the problems go away, but we can ensure that we're doing everything within our means to assist with any barriers that might um be preventing students from coming to school. >> Yeah. I I think I would just like to see more of a strategic plan instead of band-aid fixes from you folks. And these are conversations we've had over and over again. I've had them with Keith. I've had them with you. We've had them on this education committee. So, this is nothing new. We continue to have this conversation and yet we have no strategic plan. >> We do have a state strategic plan. I don't believe I've had a conversation with you on these issues, but I'm more than happy to meet with you to hear your concerns. >> I've had these conversations with Keith and

179if it hasn't gotten to you and it hasn't uh translated into results, again, uh the changes start from the top and so maybe we need to go above the casses. Maybe it's you. Maybe it's Keith. Uh, but we have to continue to start trimming off the edges and finding out really where the root cause of where things are coming to a stop. >> So, are they at the CASES or are they at you or are they at the superintendent or maybe it's the board of education? What would you say? >> Well, I I'm more than happy to meet with you to hear what the concerns are so that we can address those. Well, I think I've already stated my concerns, >> right? But details do help in really solving the problem. >> Okay. So, I'm

180going to ask you the same question that I asked your superintendent. Do you find it to be acceptable that 12th graders are graduating high school with a third and fourth grade reading level? >> Okay. So, what is your plan >> to fix that? >> Again, can we meet and can you share I I need to know what is the background? Is the student on a diploma track? Was the student on a certificate track? >> Was this one student we talking about? >> Right. And when we have more details, we will absolutely look into that situation. No. Do I want that happening? No. Does the department want that happening? No. Okay. So, if you had a proper communication with your casses who obviously are in close communication with your principles, then you would know where in

181the problem lies. We will continue to um keep in close communication with the CASSE. Um, I I um try very hard to keep in close communication and I will continue to bring your concerns um to our conversations so that I can be um help address any barriers that might be preventing the department um from doing what we need to do to support all children. >> Okay, I'll go ahead and have a follow-up question. Thank you, >> Senator Hashimo. >> Board of Education. >> I do want to sit there because I have questions as well. >> Thank you, Mr. Arai for being here. >> Thank you. I I'm reading the board's testimony and it's it's a little bit confusing. It says the board defers to the Department of Education on more specific impacts of eliminating the

182position of the complex area superintendent. So are you guys so you guys are against or are you just punting to the DOE? Yeah, that's that's very interesting because um you know as a board member when we do testify on bills um according to our policies we do make testimony regarding any policy changes and according to this bill it's about you know the complex air superintendent you know their positions and of course the SEC as far as their their um authority to uh make recommendations for the principles. So that is an operational maintenance kind of thing that what the DOE does. So that's why we haven't made uh or did a testimonies in opposition of the uh the bill. Um but as a former Department of Education employee, teacher, coach, vice principal, principal, complex air superintendent,

183um I really believe that not having complex superintendents will really be detrimental to our system. >> Got it. Got it. So I guess the question is so I thought the the board approves all the the casses. >> Um I I I believe it does come. Yeah because we just had um um Mr. the former principal from Campbell uh was yesterday at a board meeting was uh approved by the board. So yeah it is it goes through the board process. Yes. >> Right. So so then for the board to not be taken official position I find that a little odd. Yeah. >> Right. And part partially I think it's isn't it the board's responsibility to look at strategy right on how the system is designed right you you that's that's what you're holding the superintendent or

184I assume with your employment contract matrix >> right and so I think >> I would have liked to see a little bit more hands-on of what the board's position is going to be on these type of issues >> and maybe you know this is a signal that it's time for the board to really take a look at what is the structure of the DOE right in terms of is it working? Is it not? Is it is there something that we need to change? You know, obviously you guys allowed for the additional deputies to be hired, right? But without absent of any other structural changes, it does >> make me a little bit concerned that you're not taking a deep dive and you're just allowing band-aids to to happen. So I'm I'm just concerned that you

185know that the board needs to be aware and be present of these type of conversations because at the end we you getting appointed by the governor. We approve you right to be on that board to make these kind of decisions so that the legislature doesn't have to come and get into your business but absent of the type of analysis and strategy sometimes we have to do that and so that's I think what's what's concerning to a lot of us here right? Yeah, that is a great point. And you know when um um Senator Dort talked about you know graduation students are at the uh fourth grade level for for reading and how can they graduate you know and get a diploma things. It's interesting because at our board meeting on Thursday, we did have presentations

186on the CSLD uh grant for literacy and uh one of the big things we had testimony as far as um uh how come how do we support because we do have great data nationally as far as how our students are doing on ASPAC testing and so on. But how do we support the students that are special needs uh come from different ethnic groups and so on. So in our strategic plan which we have a strategic plan um deputy Armstrong mentioned it there is a portion where we want all students no matter what uh uh where they come from that we are there they able to succeed so uh and we talked about >> and I get it and I get it and I think I think what what needs to be clear to the legis

187especially when these kind of bills come up what is the board thinking right because I think it's not only the you know what how big is the upper administration the DOE there are particular areas that we're trying to have the board fix. One of them is facilities, which you guys then approved another assistant, right, for to take away portions of what was in OFO to another assistant, which was fine, but then we need to see some type of progress, right? And so I think we need hopefully you guys are keeping an eye and so when I see these kind of testimonies where it seems like, oh >> yeah, >> we don't care. Ask the DOE. I I get really concerned. >> Yeah, we we do care. And you know, Senator, um we are looking at

188the specific subgroups as far as uh what they're doing as far as their uh um literacy standards and what's happening as far as I get. I get that's her question. I'm talking about my question and yours as far as facilities and so on because we do have the uh FIC and the HR chair that we are >> hopefully you can take this message back to the board, right? I think part of it is >> what is the strategy of the the DOE admin, right? And I think if we understood it, I think I think we would be have a little bit more comfort, but I think the message here is we're a little bit uncomfortable where we're where we're heading. >> Okay. >> Right. I think it's not the sometimes the answer is not adding,

189>> right? I think I think the problem a lot of times is we just don't have people in the vacant positions, right? And I think that the board really needs to focus on those type of things to make sure that we have a system that is robust and we're focusing on the right areas. Um, so hopefully you you really understood what what what the conversation is here today >> and definitely I will go back to our board members and chair Tukumi as far as what was talked about. We can review the uh what happened at the meeting today. So definitely >> thank you chair senator. >> Thank you Heidi. How many um casses do we have? >> 15. >> And how many principles do those casses oversee? >> It depends. So some complex areas oversee

190nine schools and um say KKP because it's a very um geographically diverse area. Urban Honolulu can be 29 schools. So so there's a range. Um each Cass doesn't have the same number of schools. >> I see. Thank you. >> Um I want to follow up on the literacy. You said that um you folks want students to uh succeed. That's all of our goal. We all want our students to succeed. I think part of it is um what kind of programs are we actually instituting into the schools and having these students because there's a lot of students they're they just not can't sit into a classroom completely and then take the test and and so they don't come to school. lot of absentism. And when we do have creative programs in the schools and we have

191a CAS that that stops the program from continuing on even though it occurred for nine years and never said a word about it and then all of a sudden raise these levels and then um says that there's a policy against it a state policy and when I ask for the policy and check for the policy there is no such policy but those kinds of statements are being made and so and then we we propose things to help get the students interested, get them excited, give them confidence and then the DOE goes against it. You know, they can't they can't support it. So the these are the kinds of concerns. So um I hope that the board will be looking at this because you cannot just say we want our students to succeed. We do but

192how do they succeed? There's no longer you can stand in front of the classroom one to 25 students or 30 students. You know, you have to engage the students. It's a different kind of learning. You know, I learned with the teacher in front of the classroom obviously and I learned to, you know, memorize my multiplications and all that. It's it's a different it's a different kind of students. Now I know all the principles here probably understand know that um but how are we delivering education to keep them engaged to keep them you know project oriented and and so forth and those are the kinds of thing we're looking for leadership from from the leadership the casses and so forth and you oversee the casses right how often do you meet with the casses >> often

193um >> I talk to casses Every day I meet with Cass's on a regular schedule. Twice a month we have our leadership meetings and then in between those I have um I work with our um struggling schools. So I see other cases and their principles um once every month. Um >> so do you bring up these concerns that you're raising? We could we we look at the the successes we look at the struggles. I'll give you just an example. I completely agree that the traditional learning we do lose many kids there. There they can't there's too many distractions. And so in your district in Honolulu district um to support math um they've done the thinking classrooms where they have the um whiteboards or the white papers. So, um, math, we're having a concerted effort. We

194do know we need to, um, improve in math. And this strategy that, um, all of the schools have been trained in. They've been supported. They've had professional development. They've had followup allows the children in the math class, you know, elementary through high school to work in groups and to talk and to figure out the problem, to ask questions. So I I can say that the schools are um acknowledging your statement that traditional learning is is is um traditional and we do have that's just one of many examples. Um and I know any Cass or myself or the superintendent is are we're more than happy to take you into schools to show you um variations. Yes, I'm aware I you know again not every not that the schools aren't doing it. I know there are pockets

195and there are different schools and the way they're being run and some schools have a lot of programs good programs. Um so happened in in some of my schools in Klehi they're not as don't don't have that and when they do have a program then it gets cut with no no reason why it gets cut after nine years which is concerning raised that concern. the students, you know, the community is the one that came to me because they're concerned. You know, I was unaware of it. They brought it to the neighborhood board. That's how bad it got to the neighborhood boy. And you know, these are students that was working out with a curriculum outside and it was cut. So again, this is one example, but I've heard many examples and other schools have done

196exactly the same thing that the school was doing and then it gets cut. So again, and you know, the concerns raised with the Cass and in another school again raised with the Cavs. Um, and and the principles are not going to speak against the Cass. They just are not. They will tell me, but they're not going to come out. So, you know, we get to be the messengers here. So, um, so I I hope that as you meet with them, should this thing go forward continue that you know you raise these issues and evaluations and what's going on in certain areas because again it's not every cast it's not every area but again you know when there's several then it ruins it all for everyone right because there's a lot of concerns >> yes >>

197I just wanted to u also mention that you know as a board member uh for me to be out visible at the schools is very important and I'm very grateful for the casses There's many cases that are here that have invited me to go to the complex not only on Kauaii, Oahu and other places to visit schools and to do what we call it walkthroughs to see because we have a systematic approach as far as curriculum strategies and so on. For example, the CSLD there's um levers as far as what is important. It's not only about instruction, curriculum, but it's about family engagement and so on. So as a board member when we hear presentations from the DOE and presentations from the schools which they did you know with the state and also with the

198specific complex and a specific school uh I I'll go out and say okay you talked about this and when you I visibly see here and when you ask the students because you know as a as a former teacher so what are you learning you know what what's happening and so on. So I think it's important for board members because as a board member with when you want us to make changes or be accountable to what's happening out within our system that you got to see what's happening. So I would hope that every one of the board members have visited at some point as many schools as possible especially within the area there. >> I know some are full-time workers. me. I'm retired and I got to babysit. But yeah, definitely being able to be out

199there and and having this invitation by the principal ter. >> We ask we ask all board members during the confirmation, do you have the time? Are you willing to serve? Do you have the time to do this? And you all say yes, whether you're retired or not. And so if you're not visiting the schools, if you're not coming into contact with them, then I I have some concerns. And you know I I we asked this during your confirmation and we will ask you again as we go forward if you come up for reconfirmation. >> Yeah. You know because we have the sunshine law too that now now we cannot have more than how many board members. >> Yeah. But you can go individually. I go to my schools individually right I mean you can call

200I reach out to the principles or try to. >> Yeah. Yeah definitely. Yeah those who can. >> Okay. Any further questions on that? Senator the court. Any further last minute questions? I know you had to go to vote on a number of issues. >> Apologize to follow up. >> Yes. Uh Heidi, in your um in your advocacy for these positions, how can we expect to get a better line of communication with you in your office and with the superintendent that would actually give us a pathway to getting the results we need for the schools that are being underserved right now. >> Um I I'm more than willing and I speak for the superintendent as well. he or I are more than willing to come to your area um go to the schools with you um

201talk about your concerns um and your needs and come up with what needs to be done um to see the improvements that um you're suggesting you know we need to be aware of. So, you're willing to come back to our schools to look again at the issues that we're having? >> Um, I I don't believe I've walked through schools with you, but I'm more than willing to. I I do go to um not regularly, >> but yes, not with me personally, but uh with the principles and with the head custodians as well. So, you've been there before, but would it make you feel better if you walked there with me? And then we were able to kind of go through a checklist of all the issues. >> Sure. >> Um I would just prefer the

202the work to get done. >> So if that is what it's going to take for the work to get done, >> I think that would be good. Um and not to pivot into a conversation that might potentially add more positions um to already a topheavy department, but do you feel like you can handle your position? You seem very overwhelmed. Um, I I hope I don't look overwhelmed, but if I do, I can't help that. But, um, I'm I'm um very busy, but I wouldn't say I would say to you I'm overwhelmed. >> Sure. And the reason that I make that comment is because in the state auditor's um audit findings uh when it came to the driver's license program uh you seem to not know the basic knowledge of how the program is being run

203or that it's a I guess a multi- department program. So again the very basics I think that should be um pretty much >> known. I I I do agree and um that audit was I was assistant superintendent in the first month of the job and I had not yet met with our um driver's education section but I did within the first two months meet with every group. So not an excuse but um to help clarify your thinking. >> Yeah. So since the audit has come up have you made those efforts? Oh yes, we have. And um out of the I think it was 10 recommendations of the audit, we've completed eight. Um one is a administrative rule, but we're we're following the process. Off the top of my head, I can't remember the other one,

204but it was on target for completion. Yes. Yeah. Um also, there are some loopholes a little bit with how the deferred maintenance is getting handled um in some of these areas. Uh, and so a lot of the funds are being moved. I believe you were here when we were sitting with the University of Hawaii and we were talking about just that lack of communication that the legislature is not getting when funds are moved for different CIP or deferred maintenance things like that. So, have you been able to or maybe you can help us to streamline that? uh because the parents in my community, the coaches, they're feeling like a lot of these areas are being neglected and I don't really I honestly I don't know how the Department of Health isn't shutting down some of

205these programs. So, uh these are areas that you have walked through the schools, Keith has walked through the schools, you've done this with the custodians. So, I guess for the sake of the conversation, should we do them again? Maybe extra oversight of me being there and watching the conversations take place. Maybe that would be better accountability. >> Well, I'm I'm I'm happy to meet with you and um have um one-on-one or three whoever wants to attend the meeting to hear the specific concerns and then um I I do think it's um we're accountable to follow up um if it's something that can be done immediately. Yes. >> Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, >> Senator Kani. Anyone last questions? >> No, I forgot to invite him. >> Sorry, I know I talk so much. >> Okay.

206Thank you very much. >> I want to thank all of you folks for for being here today. I know you have to take time out of your busy schedule um away from the kids. So, thank you all um for your testimony and for being here. We are moving on to the next item, which is Senate Bill 3063. This is relating to department of education procurement. Authorize Department of Education to extend up to 5%. >> Oh, everybody should stay for the next bill. Only here for one bill. >> They were only here for one bill. Can we keep the door shut so we can >> Can we shut the door? Thank you. Okay. This authorized Department of Education to expend up to 5% more to procure local edible produce and packaged food products compared to non-local

207alternatives. And here to testify, patiently waiting, we have our attorney general. Thank you for your patience. >> Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kdani, Senator Dort, and Horichi from the Department of the Attorney General. Um, as noted in our testimony, the bill refers to um or uses terminology of non-local al alternatives, but there is currently no definition for that term in statute. Um, so we suggest revising the bill to um um include references that basically incorporate the definitions that are used in HRS section 27-8. And that uh language is in our testimony. Thank you. >> Thank you. Kisayashi, Department of Education, >> Chair Kim, Vice Chair Keani, Senator Deort, Shantima testify on behalf of the Department of Education. The department stands on his written testimony in support of this measure. We're currently working with big

208distributors instead of having smaller direct contracts, which makes it challenging for us to uh purchase more local products. So with the regional kitchen kitchen model launching in 2027, we plan to have more contracts directly with producers. So this measure will help us greatly in being able to purchase more local products. We stand by for questions. Thank you. >> Thank you. Bonnie Kakoy. >> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Bonnie Kakoy, administrator, state procurement office will stand by your written testimony providing comments. >> Thank you very much. And we've had four others testifying in support. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none. Um Sean, can you come back up? Question. So we've had this conversation before in other measures how you have a master so a master

209vendor who then goes out and and buys food from different entities. And I've been told that a lot of local vendors because their cost is slightly higher that the master vendor just don't don't go don't buy food buy from them and and they've been trying for years some of our local vendors who have been in the business for a long time and they still can't get their their their goods into our schools. So, how how do we resolve this? Is this going to resolve that? >> This will definitely help. And one thing that we're doing uh regardless of this bill for next year is we're going to list give you an example of like cucumber. So right now it's not really in the best interest of the distributor to purchase the local cucumber because it's

210more expensive for them. Uh whereas we have a set price for the cucumber. So, what we're planning to do for next year is have the same item listed for the local price and the non-local price so that we can choose to purchase the local one if we choose to. >> Okay. So, that's going to be across the board to do that for all the small vendors, the small local vendors that we want to. >> So, it won't be vendor specific, but it'll have the item with two different prices for a local price and then a non-local price. That way it'll be our our our decision to purchase a local item. >> And it says here, expend up to 5% more. 5%. That's not a lot, right? >> It isn't, but it'll help. >> Yeah. But

211if it isn't, how is it going to help that one vendor if it isn't, right? I mean, so are we being realistic? Is that is a cost for our local local farmers and local vendors difference from the mainland stuff only 5% defense? >> So there's there's two parts to this. One is we can spend up to 250,000 or if it's 5% we can do more than that. So but like you said 5% will help um but it won't help help in every item though. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Yeah. Where is the department at with their uh 30% locally sourced food >> currently? So, over the past few years, we've been at about 6% and then we're down to five. We're back up to six. Uh currently, we're at eight. >> Where do you

212project the department landing in the year 2030? >> We're striving to get to 30% by 2030. We would have been we're actually at 8% right now, which is not close to 30, but it is the highest we've been. Uh we would have been higher, but unfortunately there was a drought that affected local beefs and some other local products weren't available to us. >> But the I know that there's been efforts with uh Ulu, those kinds of things. Where are you folks at with that? So we piloted uh with several products, local beef, um sweet potato, bok choy, and kabota. Uh fortunately with that, again, a lot of it was the availability of the products. So some of those weren't readily available to us, but we're continuing to try to pilot with different products. So we

213have one going out right now. We're working on po right now, and our next target is is local cucumber. So is it the funding that's not available or it's the products that's are you guys short in funding or are you guys short in product? >> Yeah, it's not a funding issue. It's more of a product issue. >> So I think with uh the big project of the regional kitchen and there's a it's a multi- agency effort to build up local agriculture to be able to support the regional kitchen. I think we're looking at the launch of the regional kitchen model to produce a spike in locally sourced products. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I'm I'm hoping that we can support these measures that will continue to keep the food locally grown here and purchased here. >>

214Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Any other questions? Not. Thank you, Sean. Okay. We are on the last item for this agenda because we do have another one which is there's a joint. Um Senate Bill 2615. This is uh cafeteria meals uh relating school cafeteria meals cost requires department of education to charge not less than one quarter of the cost of preparing school meals for each school meal and we have uh department of education Sean that's you >> chair vice chair senator decor shantima the department stands on it written testimony in support of this measure lowering the statutory cost recovery requirement from 50% to 25% will allow us not to mandate a price increase for families. Currently, student payments are at 28% of meal production costs, which would be in compliance should

215this measure be adopted. Stand by for questions. Thank you. Okay. >> Thank you. Um, no one else signed up for testified. We did have two others in support. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Okay. Hearing none, members, any questions? Senator, >> thanks. Uh, how much is the meals costing right now? Um, and then how much of that? So, so three questions. How much is it costing per meal? And then how much is the overall funding and how much of that are you guys getting federal funding for? >> So cost per meal is 905. Sorry, what was your other question? >> Uh, and then how much is is the entire >> all of the meals? All of the food. >> Cost of food. Yeah, >> it's um total cost of meals >> approximate is

216fine. And then my next question was um how much of that are you guys getting federal funding for? Okay, >> so total cost of the meals um >> 179 million. So that includes the food and labor and equipment. >> Okay. >> And then federal reimbursements. >> Yeah. Any idea? >> Yeah. Um >> it's about 60%. >> Okay. And then one question chair um or comment. Uh some of the parents in my school primarily the elementary schools are complaining that they're not able to eat meals with their students. I mean, sorry, with their children, especially the kindergarteners, the ones that are maybe going to school for the first time. Parents are concerned that maybe they're not eating all their food or maybe they're having trouble opening the milk carton. Uh, and parents in my district were

217told that they're not able to sit in the cafeteria with their child because of federal funding. Is that >> I don't know if that I don't think that has to do anything with federal funding. Okay. >> I think that's more of an op operational issue. >> What would that what would that issue be? Because I mean when my kids were going to school, I was still able to have breakfast with them, spend that time with them, walk them to their classroom. So I think maybe for the preliminary uh grades such as like kindergarten or going to school for the first time I think that parental support would be helpful to the student. So operational cost is for I mean sorry operational purposes is for what reason? >> Um I think it's just for management of

218the cafeteria but I'll I'll take that concern back though. Yeah, I would like to know because uh this is what our parent was told and because of that the child really struggled her first year in school and so since then the parent has pulled him out of public school and now is homeschooling just because it was too much of a culture shock without any real transition to especially it was her first year >> kindergarten >> of kindergarten. Yeah. And so they wasn't they weren't sure if they were eating those kinds of things. So, if it's not a federal um regulation, then I need to know that, too, cuz I have to go and talk to the principal about that. >> I don't believe it affects our federal reimbursement for that. >> Thank you. >> Maybe

219if you can let me know offline which school and we can follow up. >> I will. >> Thank you. Thank you, chair. >> Thank you very much. Do you know what other measures we are going to assess? call the committee on education back to order. We are in decision- making starting out with Senate Bill 62602 relating to the general fund of the University of Hawaii tuition special fees. The recommendation is to pass with amendments of technical and non-s substantive amendments for clarity and consistency. Any discussion hearing? None. Uh, vice chair votes I'm sorry, chair votes eye. >> Chair votes eye. Oops. >> 2602 SD1. >> Vice chair votes eye. Kunaga excused. Senator Hashimoto excused. >> Hi. >> Measures adopted. Thank you. Senate bill 2658. This is the requires the border regions to expend funds to

220appropriate new and improve modernization um facilities and uh the recommendation is to amend with the AG statement. The bill is of statewide concern. Um I think that's the extent of the amendments. So pass with amendments. Senate bill 2658. Chair Volzai Vai vice chair. Senator Dort. >> Hi. is adopted. >> Okay. Senate bill 3229 relating to University of Hawaii. It authorizes the use of the tuition and special fees to conduct donor evaluations. Recommendation is to pass with technical and non-substantive amendments. Any discussion hearing? None. Chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Kaga and Ashimo excuse. Senator >> I adopted. >> Thank you. Senate Bill 2659 uh relating to the border regions prohibits active employees of the University of Hawaii and RC from serving on the border regions. Recommendation is to pass as is. Any discussion hearing?

221None. Chair votes I >> chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Senator >> I adopted. >> Thank you. Senate Bill 3325 relating to public school Medicaid reimbursements require Department of Education to establish an updated plan for maximizing the Medicaid reimbursements. Recommendation to pass with amendments uh technical non-s substantive also on page four line three reference to a special education section which does not exist within DOE. The correct reference may be the exceptional support branch of the office of student support services or the correct uh name. Any discussion members? Hearing none. Chair votes eye. >> Chair votes eye. Vice chair votzai. Senator Dor. >> I adopted. >> Thank you. Uh relating to univers sorry Senate bill 3232. Uh relating to universal school meals establishing the universal school meals special fund to accept deposits of Medicaid reimbursements

222received by the department of education. Uh recommendation is to uh pass as is. Any discussion? Yeah. Chair votes. >> Chair votes eye. Vice chair votes. Senator I adopted. >> Thank you. Senate bill 2551. Recommendation is to defer since this measure is the exact same as the next one coming up. Uh, Senate Bill 2875 relating to uh, education requires the Hawaii Teacher Standard Board to develop an alternative pathway for visiting international educator permit align with the duration of the educator's J1 visa program. Uh, recommendation is to pass as is. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes eye >> for 2875. Chair votes I vice chair. Senator Dori is adopted. >> Thank you. Senate bill 3334. The recommendation this is uh relating to the repeal of the complex area superintendent position. The recommendation is to pass with amendments.

223Uh there are number of amendments uh streamlining the layer of administration to state superintendent, district superintendent, school administration that provides more empowerment to the principles to personalize efforts for their school principles to report to district superintendent academy and district deputy superintendent. Each district will have one superintendent and one district deputy superintendent. Other staff positions can be established and there's a number members of um recommendations. The recommendation is that we're going to pass this on to Ways and Means and they will hold a public hearing so that the public can all testify to some of the changes that is being recommended uh into this SD1. also um technical and non-s substantive amendments for clarity and consistency. Any discussion hearing? None. Uh chair votes I >> vice chair I senator court >> I adopted madam chair. >>

224Thank you. Uh, Senate Bill 2549 relating to student transportation authorizes Department of Education to hire a new contractor if a contractor under a student transportation contract fails to provide service on a contracted route for five or more consecutive construct instructional days. Recommendation is to pass with amendments. Uh, Senator Hashimoto has proposed amendments and add in the new section by the AG. Any discussion hearing? None. Also technical and non-s substantive amendments. Um no discussion. Chair votes eye.ai. Vice chair votes I. Senator Dort >> I was adopted. >> Thank you. Senate bill 3063. This is uh Department of Education Procurement recommendation is to take the AG's amendment. Um yeah that's it. SD1 the AG amendments. Chair votes I. >> Chair holds eye. Vice chair holds eye. Senator Dort >> I measures adopted. >> And finally, Senate Bill

2252615 relating to school cafeteria meal costs requires Department of Education to charge not less than one quarter of the cost of preparing a school meal. Recommendation is to pass as is. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes eye. >> This was uh 26 >> bill 2615 SD1. Okay. Chair votes eye. Vice Chairs I Senator Deort >> I wishes adopted. >> Thank you members. We have one more but we got to go down to room 016 for the next agenda on the next agenda. So we are adjourned.