001All right. Thank you. We're here for a judiciary committee decision-making only agenda. Um we'll just go ahead and start at the top. Uh first up is Senate Bill 2678. establishes a working group within the judiciary to improve family court processes including access to legal representation for youth in the child welfare system. Uh recommendation here is to pass with some amendments. Um we'll clarify section 2C10 by specifying that the individuals have lived experience navigating the state child welfare system. well minors and those will go on the working group and we'll revise section 2C6 to replace an actively serving GAL with a um guardian adm former GAL and then we'll add flexibility for the co-chairs to in invite additional members with needed expertise and provide compensation for lived experienced members. Uh and the committee report will suggest
002a $20,000 yes $20,000 appropriation. Questions or concerns? If not, vice chair for the vote. >> Recommendation on SB 2678 is to pass with amendments. Chair Rose, Vice Chair, I. Senator Chang >> is excused. Senator Sandura is excused. Senator AA. >> Measures adopted. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, next up we have SP 2313. Do we have Yes, that's right. And 2313. This um establishes a comprehensive system of public financing for all candidates seeking election to state and county public office to begin with the 2028 general election. Um this is a bill that we've passed out before um and would like to keep it in play. Um I think probably we don't have the money to do it this year, but um I think it would be useful to keep around for another round anyway. So the
003recommendation is to pass with amendment will accept CSC's technical amendments on page four line 7 to8 the name of the program to read a comprehensive public funding program for consistency blank out the appropriations and the positions and in the committee report we'll recommend the appropriation amounts and staff positions that were in the original bill and we'll make the bill effective March 2275 and add a provisor that section 2 and three regarding the statutory framework for the conference program shall be effective November 4, 2075, but the idea being that if we did it, it would be for 2028. Questions or concerns? If not, Senator Gabard's recommendation on SP 2313 is to pass with amendments of the members present. Are there any no votes or reservations? Hearing none, the measures adopted. >> Okay. Thank you. Next up
004is SP 2528. This increases the expenditure. This is I'm sorry this is the partial public financing program uh proposed by the campaign spending commission. Um this increases the expenditure limit and the amount of partial public campaign financing available for all elective offices. Our recommendation is to pass with some amendments. Um we'll go ahead and um increase the match of public funds and section 4 to 4:1. So that means $4 for each for every dollar raised up the maximum up to the maximum amount of public funds and correspondingly we'll increase the maximum amount of public funds available in section three to 20% for the offices listed in subsection A which is governor lieutenant governor Honolulu mayor Hawaii county mayor and the current the current ma the current max is 10% and the CSC proposal in this
005bill was 12.5 and then the the uh maximum amount wouldn't increased to 25% for the offices listed in subsection B which is senators reps county council prosecuting attorney Kauaii mayor and Maui mayor the current amount is 15% and CS CSC proposal was 18.75 so this is a little more generous we'll blank out the uh appropriation and in the committee report recommend an increased amount of 7.2 2 million to fund the program and we'll make it defect the date to March 22, 2075. Questions or concerns? Not vice chair. >> Uh chair's recommendation on SB 2528 is to pass with amendments of the members present. Are there any no votes or reservations? Hearing none. The measures adopted. >> Okay. Thank you very much. That ends this uh agenda. Okay, welcome everyone to the joint or 10 10:15
006agenda with judiciary committee and our friends and colleagues from the education committee. We have one bill on the agenda today, SB Senate Bill 3123. This clarifies that free tuition at private educational institutions are being considered conditional gifts that support education rather than contractual obligations. Uh, and do you do you have any opening statement you would like to make or Okay. Okay. Um, as noted, this hearing is being streamed streamed live on YouTube. You can find links to viewing options for all Senate hearings and meetings on the live and on demand video page of the legislaturator's website. uh in the unlikely event that we have to cancel the or to recess the meeting for technical difficulties, we'll try again on Tuesday, February 17 at 10:00 a.m. in this room 016 and then public notices are posted.
007For those testifi, well, for everybody, there's a two-minute time limit. For those online, your um audio will be muted and video disabled until it's your turn to testify. Okay, first up on SB 21 3123 is Will Kaine, senior advisor, Office of the Governor uh in support. Next is Office Hawaiian Affairs also in support. Uh Danna Doier Doier, executive director, Hawaii Association of Independent Schools. If you just if you'd like to testify as it's a time, come on up. >> Yep. Please. >> Aloha, chairs, members of the committee. I really appreciate your time today. Um, my name is Sienna Dolier. I'm the executive director of the Hawaii Association of Independent Schools. We represent roughly a 100 schools here in Hawaii. Um, this bill is fundamentally about protecting the spirit of the gift. Um, I'd like to
008include that it clarifies that donor-funded scholarships, grants, and tuitionfree educational programs are charitable educational gifts, not commercial contracts. For families, this ensures that scholarships, pathways, and access remain open. For schools, it supports stability and continuity in financial aid programs. When scholarships and tuitionfree pathways are secure, families have access to the best education for their keg. So, for those reasons, I'm encourage you to uh move this bill along and we as the Hawaii Association of Independent Schools are in strong support of Senate Bill 3123. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Next up is Kuio Kuyo Lewis or Madlin for Hawaiian County. >> Good morning. >> Morning to the chair, vice chairs and members of our judiciary and education committees. My name is Maline B. McKG on behalf of Kumio Lewis, CEO of Hawaiian Council. We
009just wanted to stand on our written testimony and strong support and really emphasize that this is a clarification bill. As I read it, we are making sure that the gift of education, long-standing education that has benefited so many Kiki here in Hawaii is able to continue. Uh this gift is making sure that we can reach community who needs it the most. Um and we stand in strong support. Mahalo. >> Thank you very much. Next up is Kel Nani Abad on behalf of Jack Wong for Kamehameha's business. Good morning roads for the opportunity to testify. I'm Kawabad. I'm the senior vice I'm the vice president of strategies and experience for and testifying on behalf of our CEO Jack Wong and our board of trustees. We submitted written testimony in support and in collaboration with the Hawaii
010Association of Independent Schools. We're offering some amendments for your consideration. I'm going to just take a few moments to share a few highlights of our testimony if it's possible. First, we want to mahalo Governor Green for his leadership in introducing this bill. And we want to acknowledge and mahalo the circle of strong schools, organizations, and individuals among whom we stand in in support. Senate Bill 3123 empowers schools and donors to define our relationships and interactions with our hana and ohana in ways that are authentic and aligned with our values. who we are and who we always have been for Kha. This measure allows us to maintain our pelina with hama and ohana as our founder Kellyahi had intended. Our proposed amendments seek to provide greater clarity and to strengthen the bill. We've included a redline
011draft in our testimony for your convenience and we worked on these again in collaboration with the HIS uh leaders. We also provided a copy of these with the AG's office. The suggested amendments are primarily on page three of the bill and they aim to achieve two objectives. First, we propose using the simple phrase conditional gift in place of donor conditioned educational awards conditional gift. The change clarifies that both school conditioned and donor conditioned gifts. >> Your time is expired. If you can hang around there probably there's likely to be questions. So, thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Next up is Terry George, CEO and president for Hawaii Community Foundation. Uh in support, Rachel Wag Wagenman D um director of marketing for Hawaii girls why schools for girls at La Pietra. Also in
012support Dr. Ruth Fletcher for St. Andrew schools in support Kane Kabaola Lindsay for Association of Hawaiian Civic Clubs in support. Malia Tuchia for Hawaii Children's Action Network Speaks in support. Kono Kaku Hea uh for Kono and that's it. And in support as well. U Paul Turnbull for Mid Pacific Institute in support. Gwen Maderos for St. Louis School in support. Brady Ansato for Sacred Hearts Academy in support. Angela Young for CARES on Zoom. >> Not present on Zoom. Chair. >> Okay. In support. Nancy Moser in support. Blaine Herstrom in support. Rebecca Sunoon in support. Benton KO Pang in support. Kendrick Farm in support. Christian Kua in support. Johnny May Perry in support. Makana Hicks Goo in support. And if anybody's here and wants to testify, come on up. Alani Haleya in support. Joseph Uihal in support.
013Jacob Aki in support. Anita May Naon in support. Celestine Moihana Maldonado in support. And Cedric Dwarte in support. That's all. That's everyone who signed up for SB 3123. Does anyone else wish to testify on SB 3123? Members. Okay. Members questions. >> Yes. >> Senator Sanuro. Um I guess oh why don't or Kame schools who was last here you had um proposed amendments to remove the word I guess donor and just made it conditional gifts and why is that? >> So there we wanted to clarify that there are two kinds of pe folks involved right there are the donor conditioned gifts and there are the school conditioned gifts. So the they might they might in originating from different places. We want to make sure that both are covered by this bill. So we just want to
014use a broader term rather than um focusing only on one side >> and without the um without this bill if folks are not able to accept condition gifts. I thought you folks are already able to do that. What this what this bill does is to clarify donor intent and to provide clarity and stability in knowing as a donor how their gift would be handled. There's some >> Oh, it gives clarity to the donor is what you're saying. But you are able to do it now. >> The Yes. Yes. But the the >> what this does is provide greater clarity about the nature of what happens once we have the donation and what and where we as a school as a donor wants to direct it. >> Okay. The current laws provide some questions around what
015some implications are thereafter and this clarity around being able to say there are gifts provides that >> certainty to the donor. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Other questions members? >> No question. >> Sure. Sure. Kilms. >> Thank you. Let me preface this by saying um my son graduated from Kamel schools. So, let's see. Um, how is how is this measure going to affect or change the way you select students, Hawaiian students um to Kamea? >> It would not affect it in any way. >> Okay. So then the concern that's been raised to me in the last couple days is that um there's a lot of Hawaiian children that are not being served and there are many needy Hawaiian children that not being served whereas there are a lot of those that
016are being served that are not needy. And so th that's the question is to how did this legislation because it is special interest legislation. How does this legislation support all of the Hawaiian children? So while this legislation is not intended to address your specific concern, please know that KMA has a very strong intent to focus on orphans and indigence. About 25% of our student body >> comes from those circumstances. >> In addition, you know, when we look at scholarships, we preference need those are all need-based scholarships. There are very few that are merit-based. In addition, we have about 60ome million dollars that we provide in grants to different organizations that provide support in early education, after school, intercession programs, Hawaiian focused charter schools, um, Kula Pony summer schools. >> We have so all of those
017are intended to >> right >> provide supports to a wider array of Hawaiian. >> I'm I'm very familiar. Um, how does how does how many Hawaiian students are you not serving? >> We serve about 8% Native Hawaiian students. So about >> if you're looking at those in our in our system, >> we service about 5,400 students a year. >> 92% of the Hawaiian students are not being served >> directly through our preschools and our campuses. many of them are receiving additional supports through those entities that I mentioned. So you know for early education we're supporting >> right but you're not serving 90%. And >> well indirectly through the supports that we provide. I think if you know our partners were here they would indicate that they >> okay our support is significant. >> You folks
018stopped giving scholarships to students to attend other schools. You used to do that right? the the Kona program is being redesigned and in fact this year because we know we're a little bit um delayed in our redesign we are providing what we're calling a July scholarship which will in essence be very similar to the the Kipa scholarship. So it kind of we're doing one more cohort this year knowing that the redesign is taking a little longer than we had hoped. >> Okay. And what about those students that graduated that paid all these years? um are they going to be retroactively uh reimbursed for those um you know paid I'm I'm such a graduate of course a lot a lot longer ago than perhaps what you're talking about but all of us whether we were you
019know graduating in the 80s like myself or someone who graduated last year or even the class that's going to graduate this year about so 75% of our students receive some form of financial aid either partial or full so about I I think a good 25% receive full scholarship. That leaves about 25% of the remaining remaining families that pay full tuition. Those who are paying full tuition and I'm very I want to make very clear full with big boats. That's only about 10 to 15% of the actual cost. So >> it would be easy for you folks to then refund them for their pass if they're just 25%. Well, we think it's a very important thing for all of us to consider what we are calling um what we think of as our kahal kama that
020part of part of you know my family was able to provide the tuition and it wouldn't it would not it would be the farthest thing from my parents' minds to want to take back any of those dollars. I received so much from poahi and the thought of trying to take even more is not something that my own family would ever consider. >> Well, that's your family though. There's a lot of students out there who felt that they should have been allowed to go and free because that is the Hawaii bishop's will. She wanted to take care of her Hawaiian children. She didn't say they supposed to pay tuition. So, I'm just giving you the concerns that are being raised. And let me let me just finish. Um, this is the I support the the will
021of the princess, okay? And I think it's her business. If she wanted to leave it to Hawaiian children, then certainly we should honor that. But when you come in and ask for special legislation, special interest legislation, I have my responsibility, and I don't speak for everyone here. I'm sure they have the similar responsibilities and feel that way, is that we do legislation for the majority of people. Yeah. And when you have special legislation, we have to justify this legislation. And um the concerns that are being raised uh I I need to share that because it's the interest of the students and not necessarily the interest of the administrators that is administering the the programs. Again, only 25% of our student body pays that partial tuition. those who are in need have been provided full or
022nearly full. >> That's the problem. It's the middle class. It's the middle. they don't qualify for to get full tuition partially and they're not rich enough to to >> what we can do is maybe meet later and we can go through the details but we have a very generous set of >> you have to meet with your constituents that that you serve >> and and we've just gone out in fact and done 19 different what we called aqua sessions around the pina so we we're very happy to go out and we we just did that in the last few months 19 different sessions across the pyina from ca U to Kaha to Kohala to Cahului. It we've we've we're more than happy to meet with our people and I do want to um address your
023mention of special legislation. We agree with the attorney general's opinion that this bill is constitutional and we see that from the testimony there's a wide array of schools for whom this bill will be very beneficial. They too want that solidity and that predictability and assurance that intent of donors are followed. So um we don't believe this is special legislation at all. So I I just want to clarify that. >> Can I get some money from private schools? >> Thank you. Private schools, Mr. Le. Yeah. Hello. >> So, can you just share with us what problem does the other private schools have y that this bill is going to fix? >> Yeah. So, I think you know as as um as we somewhat previously shared this clarifies some of the donor intent issues that are raised.
024So, I think what you were speaking to with Audrey respect earlier is access. >> Can I just answer the question that I asked you please? Sure. How does this affect private other private schools that don't have, you know, race as a as a selection? >> Absolutely. So, this impacts all scholarships or charitable donations that would come in the form of potentially scholarships to any private school. So, by and large, you could easily say not just gifts from Kame schools, but any foundation that awards gifts to um schools would allow for greater access to honor that donor intent. But what's their problem that you have now that you need this bill? >> I think that the clarification is around what a contractual obligation is. So from a donor's perspective, right, a contra a contract is a
025two-way giving. And I'm not a contractual lawyer by or legal expert by any stretch of the imagination. But what this allows is a donor can say given certain conditions, we would like to provide this gift to whatever subset of students. So do you make it easier? >> Think of a problem. Have you have you encountered any problem with this contractable law that's already there? >> I mean, I think that's a great question for foundations quite frankly. Um, you know, we don't we as an association don't administer the gifts directly. So, it's hard to say, you know, at the individual school level or at a foundational level if they've encountered. >> Okay. >> Um, >> so is there any school here that can answer this question? Any private school, please? Good morning. My name is David
026Gaudy, the head of St. Mark Lutheran School in Conoi. My answer to that would be that as a recipient of a lot of these scholarships, sometimes the contractual language can be a hindrance to the facilitation of receiving these scholarship. >> Understand? But have you had a problem? >> Well, we've had a number of problems. You know, >> it's going to solve >> this would streamline it and make it a lot easier. >> Okay. But question is, have you had any problems that this that need called for this bill? Because nobody's brought this up before. >> I'm saying yes. It would solve the problem of spending weeks, months, or more trying to negotiate language in a contract. So, yes, it would help us. >> Thank you. >> Members, any other questions? >> Yes. I'm sorry. >>
027Hang on. Um, go ahead. I guess you you as well as um the commandment of schools, you come on up again. >> It it seems to me to follow up with Senator um Kim's line of questioning that this bill, if we pass it, will bypass any contractual obligations you folks may have. So, for example, I don't think Kamells is going to do this. If there was um like Ben off or some billionaire who's going to give Kamehameh schools $10 million but with the condition that they accept non Hawaiian students. Wouldn't this bill then allow you to accept that money but not follow through with the condition that you folks accept non- Hawaiian students? I mean, same thing with the with with um with the private schools. If Beni off comes in says I want to
028give $10 million and but you have to accept students who are in families are in Alice families of under 150% living in who are homeless. Wouldn't this bill then mean that you folks will be able to accept that money but then allow you folks to be able to do with whatever you want to do with the monies cuz then there won't be a contract. >> Well, certainly the gifts could have conditions. Gifts have conditions and that's part of the nature of gifts. So, if Mr. Beni off would be so gracious as to provide that sort of a an a scholarship an endowment. I mean that we'd probably want to leave as an endowment to continue and let it be perpetual. And if he wanted to condition that gift to say let's make sure non- Hawaiians
029are involved and we would be more than happy to direct those funds to our many community partners. We partner with about 150 different organizations across the pyina and we would be very happy to find the best fit for what he's interested in among that the array of those partners. >> I guess same question with the private schools. >> Yeah. >> I mean because otherwise why pass this bill if you folks are able to accept the monies already, >> right? And I I mean I think it also so on the one level it's an organizational gift. So, a gift that would go to directly to a school, but it also impacts scholarships that go directly to students. So, by alleviating a contractual obligation potentially between thinking of a of a a student relationship to the donor,
030right, that there's certain conditions set for that student to to be obligated to meet. So, let's just say GPA, enrollment, what have you. Um, I think it makes it less of a I need to give X, Y, and Z back to you as the donor and just rather meet those conditions. It it I think it allows donors to more freely be able to give their their funds intentionally, right, to those who might benefit and then in exchange students to receive, you know, the gift and and and have access to education. So I really do think it's about expanding access right to the end recipient which are are ke um I again I'm I'm not um a contractual expert by any stretch of the imag imagination but I do believe that you know when we consider
031accessing giving from any philanthropic donor one of the barriers that I've come to understand is that if there's too much contractual obligation right that's a deterrent so I I do believe that it alleviates some of that concern. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks. Other other questions? >> No. >> Okay. I do have if you get both of you if you could stay there. So I don't I'm not sure that what Senator San Buymanura her concern I don't know how that would play out. But it does seem to me that if we Okay, so the question is if we pass this bill, then any potential donor like that would know upfront that there was this question as to whether or not you would have to follow the >> So they just
032they would have to calculate that into whether they wanted to make the donation or not. And please also know that one of the amendments that we're suggesting is that and you'll see it lines 12 and 13 on page three. You'll see that there's an opt opt out clause so that if a school or a particular donor wanted to create an agreement that's contractual that there's every opportunity for that as well. So you don't want to prelude that and hence the suggested amendment. Oh, the suggested amendment would give notice. >> No, the suggested amendment says unless the parties agree otherwise in writing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, leaving open the option for a contract. >> Will you be open to an amendment that actually says to the donor um that that they have that unless
033they opt out that you have the option of doing whatever they want what you doing whatever you want with their monies. Well, I'm not >> whatever would make >> that if there's clarity that's needed. If there's a greater clarity that's needed, by all means, of course, I think we'd we'd all want that clarification that that's what we're seeking in the bill as a whole >> to make things very clear >> that they're okay. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Right. Members, other questions? Yep. Senator K. So, if this legislation pass, does that mean that you don't have to go to court or there is no lawsuit or what what does that mean? >> Yeah, that's what it is. >> Clear legal definitions sustain and promote generosity. >> Okay. >> Honor donor intent. >> Can you
034not read it? Can you just tell us in your own words of what what this means? >> Yep, that's what it is. No. As with all of the schools that have testified, as with any of the organizations that support scholarships, we all are facing the situation where if a donor wanted to provide >> the question is about the lawsuit. So if this thing passes, what does that mean legally? It would provide greater clarity that >> No, but it'll Will your problem go away? I mean, will the problem go away? >> It's not that simple, right? There that I think that would, you know, I'm not an attorney. I I'm sure it's not that simple. But clarifying the difference between a gift and a contract and that what Pawahi intended was a gift that is a
035fundamentally important to us being able to express who we are as Kamehameha. >> Okay. >> When we please please consider the fact that in a court system in a western world they see the spectrum of donors. >> Understand? I just wanted what this means. >> Donors donors are seen in just two boxes, right? There's either contracts or there's gifts. And those are the options in the court system. >> Okay. So, >> does the problem go away though? Does the problem go away with >> it? Does not just go away. There's there's >> still a case is still before us and everything would need to flow that >> if you lose the cases and so forth or whatever happens. Um, are you gonna continue um giving all the students a free tuition forever and ever? >>
036We have no intent of changing that. >> We we've committed to that in as much as we have a board of trustees and we cannot speak for a board of trustees 30 years from now, but our board right now is absolutely committed to this as a longstanding longstanding policy and that is the intent. Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure that you know as this legislation go forward what what the what there might be unintended consequences and trying to anticipate that. So thank you. >> Other questions members? >> Okay. If not, thank you very much for being here. Um did you want to break decision making or >> everybody apparently? Yeah. All right. So, >> that's >> the recommendation for the from the two committees is it's pass with amendments. Um we'll go ahead
037and track the um amendment suggested by Kamehameha Schools that will include that in that will be add school condition enrollment in any any private school um to donor conditioned educational grant as creating a conditional gift and not a contract. And we'll allow this default rule to be overridden with a written agreement which is what we had talked about before uh unless the parties agree otherwise in writing. That's the specific language. and then we'll make some conforming amendments throughout the bill to affectuate those changes. Questions or concerns? If not for JDC, Senator Gav for the vote >> on SB 3123, the chair's recommendations to pass with amendments. Chair RHS, >> vice chair vot. Senator Chang, >> it's excused. Senator Sanur >> Reservations. Senator AA. >> Hi. >> The measures adopted. >> Thank you for committee on
038education. Same recommendation uh vice chair for the vote vote sheet. Okay. >> Uh chair's votes reservations on this measure. >> We can just write it down and you can later. Yeah. >> Okay. So, vice chair uh chair votes with reservations. >> Vice chair votes with reservations. >> Okay. Senator Fukunaga. >> Hi. >> Senator Cord. >> Hi. >> Hashimoto. >> Reservations. reservations. >> Okay, I think that's >> okay. >> All right, thank you very much. The member passes out of the joint committee. Mahal for being here.