001Thank you. [laughter] That was a call to order. So calling to order the joint committee on committee committee on education and committee on economic development and tourism. Today's Wednesday, February 11th. We are in room 229 and this hearing is being streamed live on YouTube. Uh if the hearing is abruptly at end due to technical difficulties, committee will convene on Friday, February 13 at 1 p.m. in conference room 229 with a notice posted on the legislaturator's website. And due to the number of measures and due to Monday's cancellation of all our committees, we had to juggle everything around. So you will be given one minute to testify. Uh I hope you uh will uh understand that and if technical issues arise during your te Zoom testimony committee may need to proceed to the next testifier written
002testimony is on file and appreciated. So um we have two measures on the joint agenda starting out and I want to welcome our committee on EBT chair uh Linda from Maui uh my vice chair Senator Kedani and your vice chair Senator Wakai. Okay, with that, Senate Bill 3263. First up for University of Hawaii, Matt Elliot. >> Good afternoon. Excuse me. Good afternoon, Chair Kim, [clears throat] Chair Decoy, Vice Chair Kadani, Vice Chair Okai, and members of the committee, and Matt Elliot, director of athletics. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm representing the University of Hawaii athletics department. Um, we are in support of bill SB 3263. Um, as we know and we've talked about at length, NIL is a new challenge for college athletics across the country and in this state and we
003believe that um, it requires a range of solutions to be able to successfully take this on. Um, we've requested uh, made a budget request to help fund the NIL program going forward. But this endowment program that is uh outlined in this bill, we think makes a lot of sense because not only does it allow us to emphasize the importance of keeping up with the current athletics landscape, but it creates a long-term sustainable solution as well. So, while we do still believe that it's important to have immediate short-term funding, this endowment is something that makes a lot of sense for us in the future. We have recommended a few modifications uh with the bill and those modifications are in our testimony. But in short, just the request that if the endowment could start at a a
004lower amount, maybe a 2 million total amount instead of 10 million to at least allow us to get started before we're able to raise the full 5 million in matching that is um articulated in the bill uh currently. That would be wonderful. Second, uh we've asked if we could in the reporting requirements not submit individual student athlete data, but a aggregate that across teams. um that would that would be ideal. And then our third request is just that um if a student needs an agent, then the agent should be certified, but allow students to choose not to have agents because some of our student athletes choose to do this on their own and and don't need that. So, thank you very much and I'm here for questions. >> Okay, why don't you sit there because
005I don't have uh the rest. I have uh Glenn Moramoto uh is an individual opposition. Uh Carlos Santana in support. Uh Sean Spencer comments and Kyle or in support. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Okay, hearing none. Members questions. >> So is prepared to do its part in meeting the dollar agreement? >> That would be [snorts] we we would work on that. We it's a the way I understand the bill >> to to to make that happen. >> Yeah. [clears throat] I think we have to do uh both. We have to raise money for the near term that we can use to fund NAL expectations right now and then if this bill exists and creates an end or if this endowment fund exists then we would also be trying to raise money
006to m do the matching funds as well. >> Thank you. >> So um how would this work the $2 million as opposed to establishing the 10 million? How do you see that work? I was yeah kind of contemplating that if the state if if we were able to raise a million for example and the state had a million then the fund would start with 2 million and we could start getting the the interest from that 2 million if we have to wait until it's a full >> what's the interest in >> well I understand it's probably four or 5% only on that so it would still you know maybe 100,000 a year or something like that >> any other any other questions Senator Fel Yeah. So my question would be is we going to implement
007this? Are you saying $2 million you guys going to hold them collect interest whatever. Um how what is the guarantee that we're going to be able to keep these students that going forward? I mean yeah I understand you guys talking about how great this thing is but we're a small island >> with poor taxpayers with little money. How are we going to compete with the bigger colleges if they decide to put themselves in a port in a in a portal? I mean, we're going to spend money on these guys come and then they go leave. How is that going to be secure for the taxpayers um going forward? Cuz not everybody um is into taking their taxes and giving it to the university for something like this. And the reason why I say that because
008I have a lot of backlash in my community because they don't support it. because we have poor people in my community that taxpayers is struggling and we're going to fork out $2 million you just said now so clarify if I'm wrong you said you going to take the $2 million and participate you guys going to raise some funds and then get some interest of the $2 million going to sit there when that $2 million can help other programs and other places within the state that right now we're short that we're going to tell the taxpayers now we're going to reig on giving them their tax break because we cannot afford it but then we're going to give you $2 million that you can put on the side to collect interest. I mean, if that's what
009you just said. I'm not sure if that's what you said. Initially, you needed 10 million and 5 million, but now you guys will wheeling and dealing to just to take anything that you guys can get for us to do the startup funding for this program. Why not have the university come with skin in the game to start up your own program and then come back to legislation and say, "Hey, start up this program pretty successful. Can you help us up?" So [clears throat] I I agree with what you just said because I I think that's exactly what we are trying to do. Uh we are this year we are doing the program without any state funding and our goal is to try to raise 3 million for the NIL program just based on private funding.
010So that's the first step which which sounds consistent with what what you're asking us to do. Then if I understood the bill correctly, it would be to create an endowment for long-term investment in NIL. And I and what we were trying to say is if the state puts up a million then we would try to raise a million because I think that's what the structure is. If I'm wrong I apologize but that's what I thought the intent was. >> Let me just clarify this bill is not a university bill. This bill is uh our bill that was introduced and uh it was done so that there would be a uh pot of money that would be consistent over the years because you cannot touch the corpus of the endowment. You have to leave it there.
011instead of giving five million every year to them, it would be a onetime five million and the requirement is that they match the five million. So there would be 10 million in the corpus and then they would get the interest from that going forward. Um as as long as there's such a thing as NIL at such time the NIL does not exist then the money would be reverted back to the state. >> Thank you. Just so you understand, >> Senator Wakai, >> I'm trying to understand the magnitude of what the ask is here because I mean $10 million seems like a lot of money, but in reality it's not a lot of money. When the University of Texas pays Arch Manning $6 million, poof, it's gone with one kid in one year. I mean [laughter]
012it no matter how much money we give you, are we ever going to be competitive with like the power five kinds of conferences? Are we just throwing money after hope that we are going to be kind of mediocre in the grand scheme of of athletics? >> That's why we have set our target to be the best we can be at the level that we're at as I I don't think of it as mediocre in athletics. I think of it as being very successful in the Mountain West Conference, the Big West Conference, the teams that we play against, and because of the way college sports is structured, if you do really well at the level that you're at, it does give you opportunities to go on and compete at the highest level. So, we all know
013how wonderful our men's volleyball team is. When they do really well in the Big West Conference, they compete, qualify for the national championship, and and we can win national championships. So, we're not asking to compete at that level. I agree. We we're not going to pay one player $6 million. That's not the right solution for us. >> Can you give me an idea? I mean, your highest valued uh athlete the past year, Wisconsin was uh your kicker. Can you disclose to us what is this NIL deal? >> Um I I have not I don't think we've disclosed publicly any of our individual student athlete deals. that >> but if we go down this road of using taxpayer funds, I think the public has every right to know how much we're paying for whoever doing whatever.
014>> Yeah, I and I understand that and I that's where I guess we've asked for the modification that we would disclose that by team as opposed to as individual students. I I think that is the standard nationally. But if that's not where we are, then I understand. And if the money if if the money from the state comes and requires individual disclosure, then you know that we would have to make that choice. I guess I I just don't know exactly how the privacy rights work for individual students. >> I just want to introduce K as an example because I'm just trying to understand like we're not going to be paying $6 million for a quarterback. Um but K's deal gives us kind of an idea of like did he get $10,000? did he get $50,000
015so that we could kind of rightsize this appropriation as well because if his EDI deal was small then maybe we don't need to give you 10 million bucks right >> okay yeah I mean I guess that's where I would say collectively we are trying to um raise $3 million for our entire athletics department for this year and then our target was to have $5 million for next year and that's why we made that budget request and that would be across all of our teams. So that is the the broad scope of it and we've provided you know breakdowns by team of how we would intend to use that as well but um I'm not I don't think I'm in a position to be able to disclose individual student athlete privacy information like that. Is it
016my recollection for for the moment you don't have to give NIL money to foreign players only American players or your citizens correct >> that no we are allowed to give NIL money to international student athletes as well. Thank you. Senator, >> uh in your testimony, you had stated that uh you folks are going to need to take time to raise those kinds of funds to match the funds. And so, um [clears throat] I find that to be kind of contradictory because you're asking taxpayers for 5 million now and then but you're not really giving us a clear plan on how the university is planning on raising its funds with the urgency. So instead of giving us a plan on how you folks are going to be raising funds in an urgent way, you're asking us
017to scale back on the threshold. So So the the concern and I think to Senator Favlla's point as well in addition to taxpayers is you're asking them to front the cost on this while hopefully you guys can raise the money without any clear plan. So So when you say take time, how much time are you guys going to need? Well, just the reason I think that is because we've been trying to raise money to pay our obligations real time. So that's those are the conversations. That's the kind of fundraising we're doing right now. This is a different concept. This is a concept of raising money for an endowment. So to talk to donors now about we need money or we're asking money from the private sector to put in an endowment that will then generate
018some interest that that's just something new that this is a new proposal that has come in this bill and it's different from what we've been focusing on. So, so that's why I'm saying it would take us time to raise 5 million for an endowment purpose. >> So, are you finding it to be a hindrance to now you guys raising money just because it's an endowment? >> No, I'm just saying it's different. We we've been focusing on again the target was to try to raise 3 million that we that we would spend this year for our NIL obligations across the department. So, that's what we're doing. That's what we've been focused on. >> Do you guys have a plan to raise the money? >> Yes. I mean, we're, as I think we've stated before, we're over
0191.6 million in terms of trying to get to that 3 million total for this year. So, we're we're working on that. >> But you're not right now. There's no difference in plan on how you guys expect to raise the money, especially if we're asking you to match the funds. >> Oh, for the endowment? No, we don't have a plan to raise the endowment funds yet. That that is a new concept as a you know, we need to work on that. >> Okay. Thank you, chair. >> Okay. You say it's I'm sorry. You say it's a new concept, but raising money is raising money. Whether it's for an endowment fund or not, it's for NIL. You've been asking for money for NIL, right? Uh you just had a regent board member that put a million dollars
020into an endowment fund, right? So, it's not a new concept. I mean, if people are willing to put money in for an u for NIL, whether it's an endowment or not, and if you still raising money for this year for three million, that means you have no you're not raising any money for future years. So, I mean to me that's not going to be sustaining at all. Right? >> So if you can't raise the money I mean and that's the that's the incentive is that if you want if you want the 5 million from the state you have to go out and raise it and you have to match it and then you guys can use the funds. Senator >> so um quick question is [laughter] it's been a long day. Um, how many student
021athletes do you guys expect to participate in the NIL? >> NIL. Um, that's a good question. Yeah, I mean, we're probably in the 60 to 70 range right now. It'll go up, though. I think I would guess over over 100 uh next year is probably more likely. >> Um, so I I know that you asked to drop the 10 mil to 5 mil um in the endowment >> for the matching, >> right? So, if I I did 5 mil and I looked at say on 5% um interest, >> you're looking at $250,000, >> right? >> Off of 60 players. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of It's kind of small. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that would be adequate. >> No, that that's why I think this is just part of a range of solutions. We
022need dollars that we can spend real time every year. So that's what we are doing with the private sector. We had also asked for the $5 million from the state which was uh you know to put into the budget that we could spend. This endowment concept I think is another good concept because it does help create some long-term sustainable funding that if we can grow to a place where we really are much more self-sufficient um this could help us solve solve these demands. So, so how does this um the endowment fund compared to other um comparable colleges with a division one athletic program? What's the comparison? >> That's a good question. I I'm not aware of a of a state match endowment fund. I haven't seen that. It may exist, but I I haven't seen
023that in other places yet. >> So, of the other um because I know you guys have partnered with um some of the Hawaii restaurants and stuff. those funds that you guys raise, are those funds also used or or we possibly use for matching funds as well or are those separate? Because I know >> talked a lot about nutrition for um the players and so forth. >> You guys looking at some of those funds as well to be part of the fundraising. >> If I understand the bill, the bill said we had to raise matching funds explicitly for NIL for this endowment. that if if that's able to be changed then obviously I would be very happy to look at other endowments that could be used to match this. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you J.
024>> Uh other colleges any of them use state funding for NIL? >> So this is again I think the way public many public universities are functioning right now is that they either the university the state whatever their concept is is helping them put together the budget for NIL. But we've seen a wide range of schools commit to the cap of the NIL funding, which is the $20 million you can go all the way up to even with a stable budget, even with a a balanced or a budget that had losses. So what we will wait to see because their question is very fair is how does that play out at the end of this year? Nobody has done this before. This is our first year. >> The question is, are you aware of any school
025that is using state dollars? come to the state legislature and ask them for NIO money. >> I I I'm not I'm not aware of anybody else doing this proactively like the way we are. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um, from what your president, President Hansel have said is that very few, there's not a whole lot of colleges that actually get the kind of state money that you that the University of Hawaii has that we give, and I would take her word for it because she's been in a number of um positions at different universities that we tend to give more money. So I can't imagine how those states or colleges would be given state monies for particularly NIL when they're not even giving it to the institutions. >> So um this is really the fact that
026we're taking state dollars. >> Yes. >> And using that money um to to help this. Uh there are a lot of people out there and I've heard from a lot of constituents who are not in favor of using state dollars for NIL to give monies to um uh athletes at this point. So this is kind of trying to balance it to give you folks some startup so you can start to raise the funding but again it will depend upon how much money that the university can can can raise and again that's your position right the athletic director has that responsibility to to raise or to be the leader in raising the monies that is needed for the athletic department right >> um let me just ask you on the other issue on um on the
027agents. So, you're saying that these athletes should be able to do this completely on their own and not have an agent or a parent? >> I I think it should be their choice. That's all I'm saying. Yes. >> So, you and again, we're trying we're trying to protect the student. Absolutely. Because you're talking about we could potentially thousands or millions of dollars, right, to a student to not have any kind of guidance. anybody that's going to be looking after their best interests at this point in time. Um I I find that very difficult to do. >> I think agents can be excellent resources or lawyers or whatever student athletes want to use. All I was suggesting is some of them an NIL deal might be $1,000 for the whole year and to force them >>
028to say that or or a parent or guardian at least somebody there to >> that's what the bill says. >> Great. Yeah. Um and then finally any state monies I think the public has the right to know where the money goes whether it's by an individual. I mean even foundation we ask them to disclose where the money is coming from or where the money's going unless they say that it is they want to remain confidential then um we don't know but technically it's state money. Yes, I think the I understand your point and if the state dollars require that kind of disclosure, I understand it. I just am asking or suggesting a modification that uh doesn't require us to provide or to produce the individual student information. That's all. >> Okay. Um any other questions?
029Senator Mai, >> I know you just completed your deal with the Mountain West. What's your take on that? How much is university getting out of that contract? So the intent, as stated by the commissioner, the intent is to keep the distribution approximately the same across the board from what we receive from the Mountain West from or what schools receive from the Mountain West. So that's that $3.5 million target. Um what is different is that our relationship based on our contract was our local TV rights deals, local TV rights deal was part of that $3.5 million in years past. So we are now in a space where we will get the conference distribution which hopefully is that number and then now we are negotiating a local TV rights deal and that will be on top of
030as opposed to being uh taken away from or or balancing out the media rights deal. So we have the chance to go um additional get additional resources. Is there also additional potential with the games that are not going to be covered by the Mountain West deal nor a Spectrum or whatever local deal that there's going to be a lot of games that the university could just stream um and somehow monetize and perhaps use your own journalism or communication students to get get even more money to help with the match in this bill. >> Yes, those are all of those games are part of the either the Mountain West deal or the local rights deal. It's not there wouldn't be a third avenue for that. They fall the rights already fall within one of will fall
031within one of those two deals, >> right? But let's say it's a so a girls soft softball game that neither the Mountain West deal nor your Spectrum contract covers. You could stream that to uh who wherever the audience is and monetize that, couldn't you? >> No, that will go through the Mountain West app because they have the right to all of our sports. Yes. >> Whether they're broadcasting it or not. Yeah, that's what this fourth that's kind of this fourth part is the the Mountain West app. [clears throat] So, anything that we can do locally, we will do locally. Anything that we would do on our own, we would then put up on the Mountain West app. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Y Senator Kim question. >> Yes. So, what percent of uh athletes are
032that are funded are local? >> Um that are funded are local. I don't know. I think about 30% if I understand correctly about 30% of current uh athletes are from Hawaii. >> That's my understanding. >> 30% you're asking what percent might be might [cough and clears throat] be eligible for getting this NIL. Is that what you said? >> Yeah, they would all be eligible in terms of who's getting it right now. I I don't know that but I can find out. >> Yes, I appreciate that. Thank you. I have one last question. It kind of deviates from this, but do you have a media a media agreement contract and I have my notes and I'm not sure what I did with it. >> Oh, our multimedia rights with Lefield. Right. Yes. >> And you have
033a consultant. What did that consultant gets paid or the person that's doing the contract? >> Oh, the the consultant that negotiated the previous deal you're asking. >> Oh, or the the people that are doing the contract. What What do they get? No, I'm I'm working on it right now. We don't have a consultant. >> You have an agreement though or not? >> No, there was a deal that was negotiated. When the last deal was negotiated, there was a consultant that worked on that deal. There is no consultant working on >> the deal. What is the deal? How much the people who we have that deal with makes? >> What was the total amount of that contract? I I don't want to speculate. I I can get you that. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I have my
034numbers because my understand that the guarantee is is low and the amount to share is really high is almost unattainable which raises a question as to exactly how much that they're getting and how much is the university actually getting. >> Oh, you're asking about the the split with Leerfield with with the actual third party. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We can give you that. There's a every year we know what we get is it's in the contract. Um there's a a guarantee. So this year it's around 2.8 8 or 2.9 million and then we will know at the end of each year what did they actually generate. >> So they according to my understanding is they get anywhere from approximately 75% and we get 25%. Does that sound correct? >> No, that's not correct. I know that's
035not correct. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I took the numbers that you guys gave me and I I did it. I'm sorry. I had that somewhere here. Um but I think that's relevant in the sense of where is the money going. >> Oh, absolutely. And and I think that is a really important thing for us to be >> paying very close attention to and that's why we're now starting the process of negotiating the next version of this deal because this deal will expire in a year and a half. >> Okay. Because it's 2.5 2.5 million um and for 25 26 is 2.8 million, >> right? Yep. 2.8. I think that's the guarantee this year. That's right. [clears throat] >> And so the revenue sharing though threshold is 5.8 million which the chances of meeting that is
036very >> yeah we're not getting there >> difficult >> we've never gotten to that number >> so I guess we um the question is what are we paying this entity in order to get the $28 million >> Oh right so we don't pay them anything they negotiate all the third party deals we get the guarantee then we get the trade so our trade is also close to 3 million so it's the 2.8 8 plus 2.7 or whatever in trade and then they keep a portion of what they negotiate on top of that until we get to that 5.2 two or whatever number you that number that you were talking about, >> which you don't we very rarely will get there, >> right? We won't get there in this deal and that's why we're going to
037negotiate a new deal for next starting next year. >> The question is how much is the negotiated deals and what percentage of that deals are we actually getting versus what they're getting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That that we can get that breakdown for you. >> Okay. Because the profit sharing line will never be reached. >> Not in this deal. No. >> Members, any other questions? Question. Um, Matt, would you say that you folks are pretty much maxed out on your fundraising efforts? Like you've exhausted all resources, made as many calls as you could and it's like if anything comes through then cross fingers hopefully maybe we'll get a check. >> No, not at all. I think we are at the very beginning of rebuilding a fundraising mechanism. We have great support from the foundation, but
038what we need to do in athlet athletics has a structure where we take all of the different entities. We have booster clubs. We have other third parties that work with us. We need to bring that all together. We have to have a system for how we engage with our donors. We have there are so many calls we still have to make. So I I think we're right at the very beginning of this, not anywhere near what's maxed out. >> Okay. So if you feel like you're in the beginning of your fundraising efforts, then why can't you match the funds? Why are you asking the tax why are you asking us to scale back if you think you guys are only in the beginning? So you folks have raised 1.6 million so far >> for NIL.
039Yes. >> For NIL. So, being that you guys are just in the beginning, shouldn't you feel confident to know that you guys can match the funds? >> Well, that I was just hoping that we could get it started. The the way, again, I may have misunderstood the bill. The way I understood the bill was that if we raise 5 million, the state will then put put in five and we'll have 10. So, my thought was it's going to take us time to get the 5 million endowment. Could we start at one and one? If we can start at one and one, at least it starts generating some interest. That that that was the only uh proposed modification. But if that's not agreeable, then I understand. >> Yeah. Because you're expressing that it's critical to the
040NIL program and it's crucial that we get this $5 million yet you guys aren't willing to have any skin in the game as far as putting your best efforts forward. So >> during my initial question, you had said we're just at the beginning. Okay, great. Then you should be able to sell us and close the deal and let us know, hey, you know what? It's going to be rough, but we're gonna do our best. We're gonna match it. And yeah, let's sign off on it. Let's go for it. But you're not really giving us any kind of faith that you guys are are able to match this, but yet taxpayers got to front the bill on this. Um, >> okay. I Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not giving you any faith. I think we have to
041raise money aggressively to cover our obligations right now. So that's, you know, trying to get the 3 million in NIL, trying to get additional dollars for operations, another two or three million to cover our operations. So those things are real time to make sure our our budget is balanced this year. In addition, now to raise $5 million for an endowment for NIL will be another uh another obligation for us. So all of those things combined are absolutely us going all in to try to accomplish them. And I if if we if the endowment doesn't kick in until it hits 10 million, I understand. I was just saying that maybe as part of the solution, we could start it sooner. >> Okay. I just want to make sure the program understands that on the ledge side,
042we're willing to work with the program if in the event you guys can match the funds. So, but but you have to be able to meet us at that level instead of just, oh, well, we need more time. like, okay, well then the $5 million you're asking us to front you guys, but then you're only willing to maybe invest or maybe committed to a smaller portion of that. So, um, so that was basically my point is we're screaming that this is existential and this is critical, but that yet when we ask you guys to participate, then it's like, oh, well, hold on, we need to pull back a little bit. So there's just a little bit of a contradictory conversation that's happening and I don't think that taxpayers should be putting up all the costs
043and you guys are playing the safe route. Taxpayers are not playing the safe route. So that's my comment chair. Thank you. >> Okay. >> I I want to just caution you when you say limited to a million. Um if you're we're there's no guarantee that after that 1 million you're going to get the other four million. That's how the budget works. You get it when we pass it. next year come, we might not have any money to give. We may you might not ever get the four million other $4 million. Are you aware of that? >> Okay. I I was wondering if we could do it as a a minimum of two up to 10, you know, something like that. That that's what I was. >> But you got to understand the legislative process. We
044work yeartoear. >> So we either give you the money now and you raise it and you match it or you don't get it and you there's no guarantee you're going to get anything done next year. I'm just saying that's just how it goes. Um, so you have to be strategic in how you folks propose some of your proposals. Um, because yeah, if you ask for a million and you're going to raise a million, then there's no telling next year if you're going to get any more. Then another bill might have to come have to be done, >> right? I mean, there's no guarantee. So, >> okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other last minute questions? No. Okay. Thank you. say there because you're going to testify on the next bill which is Senate Bill 2
0453261 um for this bill that talks about agents. >> Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> Uh yep. So good afternoon again. Matt Elliot on behalf of the University of Hawaii director of athletics. The this bill 3 SB 3261 we support. We believe that there is a a good state law already in place to govern how agents conduct their business and interact with uh clients anywhere in the state. And what this bill does is add name, image, and likeness responsibilities um that if an agent uses those with any clients or or works on that content with any client um then they would have to follow the state certification, state registration rules. And that helps protect our student athletes. We think that makes a lot of sense and and we're very appreciative of this bill being introduced. Happy
046to take questions. >> Members, any questions on this measure or not? Okay. Thank you very much. Decision. Thank you. Okay, we're going into decision making on Senate Bill 3263. It's relating to the name, image, and likeness in endowment. The recommendation is to uh pass as uh and the appropriation amount um on page four. We're going to blank it out for now. um and ways and means can look at that and see if they want to put a thousand a million or whatever it is the amount the recommendation of course is of the bill is 5 million. So um any any discussion members the recommendation hearing none for committee on education to pass 3263 with a uh SD1 >> I'm sorry there's no SD1. >> Yeah well if we blank out them all we have to
047do SD1. Yeah. SD. >> Yeah. So, Senate Bill 3263 with an amendment. Chair >> I >> vice chair votes eye. Senator Fukunaga. Excuse. Senator Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Senator Decor. >> Hi. >> Measures adopted. Madam chair. >> Thank you. Committee. >> Committee on economic development tourism. Same recommendation. Any discussion? Seeing none, vice chair for the vote. Chair goes I. >> I vote with reservations. Senator Fukunaga. Excuse. Senator Kim. >> Hi. >> Senator Favlla. >> Hi. Chair recommendations adopted. >> Thank you. And for Senate Bill 3261, uh the recommendation is to pass with an SD1 on technical and non-s substantive amendments for purposes of clarity and consistency. Uh chair votes I. Senator Kani or Senate Bill 3261. Chair votes I. Vice Chair votes I. Senator Fukunaga excused. Senator Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Senator Dory. Hi. >>
048Measures adopted. Madam Chair, >> thank you. >> Committee on economic development tourism. Same recommendation. Any discussion? Seeing none, uh, vice chair for vote, chair bai, >> I vote yes. Senator Fukunaga, excuse. Senator Kim, >> hi. >> Senator Favlla, >> I chair recommendation is adopted. >> Thank you. Committee on J committee is [laughter] I'm going to call the committee on education to order. Uh again the hearing is being streamed live and today's Wednesday 26 2026 in room 229. Uh we are being streamed live and you folks know the all the rickor abruptly amen uh ends. We're going to resume on Friday February 13th and you're limited to a one minute testimony. So with that, we are going to start off with uh Senate bills um 896 and Senate Bill 895. Members, we're going to decision make
049on this right now. In the event I lose quorum, we do need to amend these bills as um to begin with. And so these two measures of the first measure, Senate Bill 896 is relating to education. Uh it's a proposed it's a short term short term it's a short form bill and uh we did post a SD1 online and uh this would be to uh have a reporting system for capital improvement projects and so what happens is we will amend it and then uh so the recommendation would be to pass Senate Bill 896 with amendments by inserting the provisions of the proposed SD1 then recommitting the bill to the committee on education. Uh and then we will then schedule for a public hearing on this measure at the next or the later um hearing and
050we will post that notice. So if you have any concerns about the two uh amendments that we're making, you will have a chance to testify on that when we schedule it for a formal hearing. So with that, members, I want to recommend that we amend Senate Bill 896 uh to the SD1 that was posted. Any discussion hearing? None. Uh you okay? Vice chair if you will take the vote to amend SB 896 to uh propose SD1. >> Senate bill 896 SD1. >> Chair votes I. >> Pass with amendments. Chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Senator Fukunaga excuse. Senator Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Senator Doro. Hi. >> Measures adopted. Madam chair. >> Okay. Thank you. And the next bill um 895 similarly it is a short form bill and um this authorizes the board of
051education to adopt rules and repeal certain requirements for the department of education and chartered schools commission uh to share data with the department of human services. Um and so we will the recommendation is to um amend Senate Bill 895 with the proposed SD1. Any discussion? Not chair votes eye. >> Senate bill 895 SD1. Chair votes I. Pass with amendments. Chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Senator Fukuna excuse. Senator Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Senator Dort. >> Measures adopted. Madam chair. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh takes us to our first item for public hearing which is Senate Bill 2877. Uh this requires Department of Education to establish a one-year student authored book publication pilot program for fifth graders at Khi Public Elementary Schools. It requires a report at the legislature and appropriates funds. First item, first
052person testifying is Keith Aayashi for Department of Education. [clears throat] Hi, good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, and members of the committee. I'm Heidi Armstrong, Department of Education. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. The department truly appreciates the intent of this bill. A published book is something to be very proud of, and it is something that lasts a lifetime. While the department does have reservation with the proposed law that requires fifth graders to publish, we do and will continue to encourage publishing opportunities, classroom anthologies, and school showcases. We will continue to support writing portfolios, student choice, and demon in demonstrating their learning. With these efforts, we do expect to continue to see bookmaking in our schools. We have examples coming right from the Klehi area. Um, Fington High School several years ago published
053a book called Voices, which was a compilation of a lengthy project with their English learner newcomer program. Capal Lama Elementary is actually getting ready for a book signing for a book that they have worked on for a three-year project. And Kai has two schoolpublished books, though these two books aren't copyrighted like the two that I mentioned before. We will continue to support this effort, but we do ask that the schools be given the professional discretion to determine when and how the books will be decided upon. Thank you for this opportunity. >> Okay, thank you. Uh Cheryl Burgart. Okay, we have let's see 10 in support, none opposing. uh they're not signed up for um to speak. So is there anyone here wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none questions members? Heidi. [clears throat] So
054Heidi, I'm reading from your testimony you folks submitted, right? Because you you read that testimony. That wasn't what was submitted to us. And basically uh the testimony submitted from the superintendent Keith Aayashi says respectfully the department cannot support this bill in its current form at this time given the extensive literacy investments underway in Khalihi through the comprehensive literacy state department CLLD grant which requires significant time and effort from Khali schools. Additionally, given the fiscal constraints facing the department, department feels that this might be better considered at a future time. However, the department appreciates the legislaturator's consideration of this public pilot project and looks forward to continued collaboration. So, that's the official statement of the view. >> That was the testimony and then I hope that my oral testimony um explain further our thinking on this
055bill. We do think it is a an excellent idea. Um, if you'd like us to revise our testimony to reflect my oral testimony, >> we're happy. I >> just want to question that testimony only because it states the attitude or the intent of DOE. Did you folks even check with some of the schools that this this thing would go? >> Yes, we did. We checked with all of the schools that are under the CLSD grant and they echoed um my testimony today um echoes their sentiments. They are very supportive of bookmaking and book publishing. Um we the department feels a law is not necessary at this time and because the bill does come with funding. The department has made a concerted effort this session not to um ask for funding that um is not already
056included in our board approved budget. >> Okay. So if you check my testimony, there's a testimony from Liki School. Yes. In support of it. And it says, "The students of Licky Licki Elementary come from diverse backgrounds with over 12 languages spoken on campus, including origins from Ukraine, China, Vietnam, Philippines, Palao, Continental US. The student authored publication program will provide each student with the opportunity to share their unique thoughts, culture, and dreams. The final publication would also serve as a lifelong memory to be shared with their families or house the school library permanently. For these reasons, we respectfully urge you support this pilot program. We have another one from Carrie Higo from Lanakila Elementary School. So, these are schools in which we're not telling you to put together a completely new program. This is like a
057capstone. This is this will encompass everything that they're learning and allow students to be creative, allow students to be able to have confidence that they can become a published author among so many other benefits that's in here. And so it just troubles me that the DOE is really not focused on how we're delivering our education and not being creative in this. I mean, you guys spend what how many how many hundred thousands of dollars on trips and you're saying that this is a financial burden? >> No, we're not saying it's a financial >> financial constraints facing this through the state and you so we're not asking for additional funding and the two schools that have expressed um great interest which is wonderful. um we will work with those schools within our existing [clears throat] um
058budget and see if they are serious about doing that next year, how can we support them. We are not asking for additional funding from the legislature and we are also um stating that we don't think that in order to do this it needs to become a law. >> Well, it seems like we can't get DOE to do anything unless it becomes a law. And when it doesn't become a law, you guys add on, you know, it seems to me that your folks's goal is to add more positions at the executive level that doesn't directly impact student learning. And our goal here is to transform the way education is being delivered in the classroom. So we can engage the student. So it could be a student focused type of learning which is difficult to get DOE
059to come on board. a simple project as this that would really benefit the title one schools which is what we're trying to do. Members questions >> question. >> Senator the court. >> Thank you. Um Heidi, I just want to correct you. You there seems to be some inconsistency with your written testimony then with your oral testimony. So I'm going to stay with your written testimony that says the department cannot support the bill. Then it says a line down given the fiscal constraints facing the state the department feels that this might be better considered at a future time. Um I I don't you have HSTA that's supporting this bill. You have Teachers for America Hawaii supporting this bill. DOE is the only one opposing this bill. So where are your guys priorities? because I find it
060to just be flooring that you would have any opposition to this build to this pilot project. I'm hoping that it can be successful so we can bring it over to the west side. So I think that this is a start of a very very great idea. So are you watering down your oral testimony now? Because the written testimony is very clear respectfully the department cannot support the bill. >> Correct. And we we are not supporting bills due to the fiscal constraints of our state that ask for additional funding. >> Heidi, you guys just asked us for $7 million for engineers at the WHAM briefing. So please, nobody is buying that, but go ahead. >> Well, I I I stand by that testimony and we do support the content of this bill. We do support book
061publishing. Our schools can do book publishing without a bill. And that's what the department um stands on. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. I have to agree with my colleague. We have to create bills to tell you guys how to do your jobs. Otherwise, you guys continue to rake taxpayers asking for more money upon more money. But finally, when there's a good bill promoting, you folks are the only one opposing. So again, the priorities are really off with the DOE. So I'm just going to make that comment. Maybe I'll circle back on a followup later, but I'll say that for now. Your your priorities is off, Heidi. >> Go ahead, chair. Thank you. >> Yeah. I just wanted to state that when the ways and means committee visited I believe it was Malokai. >> Oh Kawaii >>
062Kawaii House this came from. >> Yeah. That they had done a a published book and I'm not sure that they had requested additional funding. I don't know where they got the funding from whether it was fundraising or what. But I want to I want you to know that there is precedent that it's being done in the schools. >> Yes. I'm familiar with that project and it was fabulous. Yes. >> Yes. >> So then why aren't the DOE being being aggressive and trying to put it into the rest of the schools? Why does it have to take us to do a bill? >> Well, we do have schools who do book publishing. Um >> yeah, we want it across the board. We don't want it at just schools so that the K schools, the wii schools,
063we're seems to be the last ones to get anything because of I don't know what it is, but there's no equity. And so we want to put this pilot together so that if and I know it's going to work uh across the board. I know it's going to work because you know what? I'm not even going to ask the state for money. We're going to go out and get the money. We're going to get donations from the community even if we have to go gofundme get a book. But this is stuff that DOE should be trying to do. How how are they not wanting to be in front of this? >> Okay. I I I hear you. And we do support bookmaking and book publishing and literacy. We're just not asking for funding to make
064that >> happen, but you're it's not being implemented in the schools. How much do you think this project would would cost? >> I I would have to look at the number of students. I couldn't tell you off. >> So then how would you know if it's a financial burden if you haven't pulled the numbers? We we have um we're I I'll go back and say we're not asking for funding to do this, but we do support the idea and bookmaking is a very important and very valuable project for the students. >> Sorry that it's a fiscal constraint and as Senator Ko point out if you don't even look at the numbers, how do you know how much it's going to cost? >> Understood. You have any idea on top of your head? What do you
065think it might cost? >> I I would need to know the number of students we're talking about. >> How many fifth graders in [clears throat] eight eight K schools? >> I I couldn't tell you off. I estimate maybe 30 in a class and maybe two to three in a class. I mean, three classes in each school times eight, we're talking about maybe 720 kids. >> Okay. You times that by how much you think it costs to do a book? >> I I couldn't tell you. And it's not an exorbitant cost. We're not saying that it's an exorbitant cost. >> No, you're saying it's a fiscal constraint. >> What we're saying is we we don't need additional funding for schools who are interested in publishing books for the 26 27th school year. >> Yeah. Every child
066should publish a book. So we're talking basically $50 a book. So the total cost for this program could be as little as 30,000, as much as 50 to $60,000. That's one Korea trip. One Korea trip that you guys took out of 14. >> Okay. >> This is not even one salary that you folks are asking to fund two deputies. Two deputies. You guys are asking for that money. Does it impact our students? And yet something that will impact our students. I'm sorry. I'm very passionate on this. Something that impacts our students. You guys say it's a fiscal constraint. This is this is terrible. You folks should be advocating for your students, advocating for them, especially for some of these schools that that are title one. And no, you take away programs. You take away the
067program at Kai. You take away these programs that bring kids to school. Instead, they stay home. They're absent and they don't learn. I I just want to be clear. We're not saying we can't do it because of fiscal constraints. We don't need additional funding. >> I was saying I'm going to raise the money. >> Okay. Understood. >> Well, it's understood >> what you've just shared. >> Okay. So, we raised the money and what the schools, you folks are still not going to support this. >> We do support this. We do support book. >> Let me get you on the record. So if we raise the money for this, you folks will support this measure >> for all of the Khi. We will check with this pilot >> and to be integrated in their school. It
068could be a standalone program but to be integrated so that it could be part of their literacy already, part of whatever it is that the school is learning. Like for Kaya, it could be they could be writing about the stream edge program. They could be writing about their culture. They could be writing about Hawaiian culture. >> Correct. And I I think with what you just shared, um, we can go back to the schools and get their input. I don't think any school would say, "No, we don't want to do bookm um, and it might not be all students, but I can survey those schools to let you know um, what they would be pursuing. We know we have two schools out um that provided testimony who have already said they would commit to serving all
069fifth graders um with this project. So that we have the answer for already. >> Do you survey all of your schools for any kinds of projects? Do you survey your schools? >> We typ the schools typically decide on the um >> okay >> learning activities. Let me ask you this question. Did you survey all the schools when you guys implemented the kindergarten assessments that cost a million dollars? Did you guys survey the schools? Because I know there are a lot of push back for the schools. >> That that was a law. >> Well, and this is going to be the law. >> I I'm just giving department. >> I just have a hard time when you folks pick and choose on when you want to survey the schools and when you don't survey the schools.
070You don't survey the schools when you ask for the principal which principal would lead the school. So, you know, to to then fall back and say you're going to survey the schools, I find that very um disingenuous. Any other questions? >> So, are you willing to change your written testimony and give us an oral testimony in support? >> Not in support of requiring all of the Khi schools and accepting the additional funding. >> See, this is why we have to put stuff into law because the department's priorities are all over the place. You guys just spent $4 million on workrelated travel. I mean, I don't want to have to bring out all of your guys' numbers, but the priorities are off. And when the committee is suggesting that students create their own book with pride
071that they can take home or they can share in the future, I mean, up in Lai, Kawaii, they had it in the library. It was so exciting. And you're telling us that you can't support it because of financial restraints. I I find it very hard to believe that department is fiscally responsible nowadays. So I mean again unless you're not going to change your oral testimony and support even after the chair has suggested that we'll raise our own money. So you're not even willing to support that in your or oral testimony. Please don't give me a >> I I will stick to >> my body comment or Yeah. Okay. I I'm I'm just saying I I would hate to be the one on the record not supporting a bill like this. Um and and speaking of
072you being here, where is your superintendent? Why is he not here? >> He is on a um workrelated activity right now. >> So he's on a trip. Him and Camille is on a trip. What that costs? >> Okay. Again, you know, it's like how does that impact our students? Um, and if we're talking about funding, you left over $40 million worth of Medicaid reimbursements on the table. I mean, come on. We're talking about $50,000 maximum for this program. $40 million that you guys you didn't pursue for whatever reasons you've given us. Right. I I I I I wouldn't say right, but we have if this is going to be another conversation, but [clears throat] >> so what we're trying to do is get the department to be consistent as they look at how they're delivering
073education, how they're spending the monies. You folks sent a testimony opposing the trip moratorum. These are all monies in which to to help us be more efficient. and you come in and the only time you raise fiscal constraints is on this fif this program. You don't raise constraints with anything else. >> Again, I'll stick to my oral testimony. We support the program. We support the idea. We just don't need it to be. >> You cannot just support it verbally. [clears throat] You have to support it in your actions. And so if you if you are actually implementing this program, fine. We don't need a law. But you're not. And it's not consistent across the board. There's no school in K that's each individual child has has published a book. I know Kapalama is doing their
074their school book but not individual. You should have seen the pride on these kids' faces on Lana on Kawaii. They came and presented to us. >> I I did see that. It was wonderful. >> Yeah. So why why didn't that inspire you as as DOE to want to put something like this or something similar? I'm not saying it have to be the exact same thing, but there's no there's no creativeness. There's no bringing this to to the students so that they want to come to school. They take pride in the school and they and fifth grade is because they're at that age. They're going to go to intermediate school, high school. Very difficult at that point, but they build the confidence as they move on. You know, we have to build it. That's why we
075have early education. So we build these things at a young age so that the child goes on to feel empowered and their families feel proud and the families are empowered and the families want to get involved. See it's all connected and that's why there's a big disconnect big disconnect. And if there's one thing we're going to try to change here is we're going to try to change this disconnection and we're going to try to make it to be student centered learning that meets this age now that we're in. We're not in industrial age anymore. So you guys better come on board because otherwise we're going to have to do it by laws, you know, starting with this, starting with some of the other bills that we have. >> Yeah. I mean, I just see it
076as a no-brainer. HSTA supports, Teachers for America Hawaii support it. It I could probably count on one hand any time that I've seen the DOE submit testimony in opposition to a bill on education committee. So, I mean, either you guys are not intending on giving our kids a fighting chance or I don't know, maybe just I don't know. It's just very disheartening to see something as simple as a students book, you folks would oppose it. Um, and you don't need to give me your PC comment. We've heard it a million times. Again, we do support the intent of the bill, but uh again, you're you're not really giving our students a fighting chance. So, I'll just say that. Chair, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Uh we're moving on to Senate Bill 2793 relating to individual
077sports. authorize homeschool high school age students to participate as unattached competitors in individual sports available to the public high school that students would otherwise be required to attend. And let's see, we have things out of order. Department of Education, Kayashi, who's not here, but is representative. I'm sure he is. [clears throat] >> Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, Heidi Armstrong again. Um, the department stands on its written testimony which provides comments on this measure. The department extre expresses concerns regarding SB2793 as allowing homeschool students to participate in public school athletics conflicts with administrative rules, placing total educational responsibility on parents, undermines the team-based nature of intercolastic sports, and creates funding safety and academic eligibility oversight challenges. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Thank you. Uh let's see. We have a late testimony from
078Daniel Lopez in opposition and another by dlo and support. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none. Uh anybody any questions? Senator Kani, any questions? >> No. >> Okay. Next item, Senate Bill 2880 relating to education clarifies the chart public charter school teachers are eligible for incentives under the teacher national board certification incentive program. Again we have Osatoule from HSTA. >> Good afternoon chair and vice chair. Um Sarah Milliana laughing on behalf of Osatouille and HSTA um we support this. Um we know that our nationally board certified teachers are the best and brightest of our profession and we want to encourage more people to seek out the certification. We know those who are certified are compensated at a higher re level and teacher compensation helps teacher attainment. Um also it's really hard to
079get the certification. So if the teachers have gone through this it's really important that they are compensated at the fair level. So it makes sense for us to expand this to charter schools. Mahalo. >> Thank you. Um, DOE Kayashi. >> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Sean Bacon from the Department of Education. We stand on our written testimony in support and are available for any questions. Thank you. >> Thank you. Ed no or charter schools. Anybody from [clears throat] charter schools? Okay. Uh, Leilani Dlo in support. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Oh, sorry. How did I miss you? >> Yeah, I did. >> We just wanted Speaking on behalf of the board, Mitsya Licensing Specialist. Uh we support this bill and we agree with what HSTA said about that
080our charter our charter schools deserve the same recognition for national board and they do but this bill clarifies that charter school teachers who are national board certified should also receive this bonus. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? Sorry that I missed you. Members, any questions? >> Yeah. What's the total cost for this? Senator Kadani. Who's that question for? Total cost. Does anybody know what the total number of and what the cost would be at 5,000? Correct. >> Charter schools charter schools >> anybody. >> I know the number but I don't know. >> The number of charter schools >> number of teachers that would probably affect or is that the question is >> correct? >> Yeah. Number of charter school teachers that could possibly >> Okay. Can you send that to us
081before it moves on? Do you have any idea? >> I might be able to try and get information. Some some charter school teachers have switched schools because there was kind of this whole charter school like not being clarified and they didn't want to take away take the $5,000 that would go toward a certain program. >> So that's why we want to clarify, but I can find out for you. >> Okay, I appreciate that. Okay, no other questions. We will move on. Senate Bill 2754 relating to civic education establishes a civic education grant program to provide support to public middle intermediate schools in providing civic education to students to department approved programming. Establish a civic education trust fund. Um Keith Hayashi recommendation. Good afternoon again, chair. Um, vice chair Heidi Armstrong, Department of Education. The department
082stands on its written testimony in support of this measure. Um, we support establishing a grant program and trust fund that strengthens civic education during the critical middle school years. And we are also requesting a technical amendment to update a specific office name that is included in the bill. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. >> Thank you. Um, Lasman Shane, did I say that correctly? Um, testifying for Hawai commission on status of women, not here. Kahi Davis the judiciary. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kadani, and members of the Senate Committee on Education. I am Kahi Davis, program specialist for the commission to promote and advance civic education. The PACE Commission strongly supports Senate Bill 2754. The Pace Commission recently surveyed 883 educators statewide. The data is clear. Only
08317% of DOE teachers receive civic specific professional development even once a year and only 26% of middle school teachers have adequate civics materials. When asked about their biggest challenge, 50 56% of teachers said too much pressure to teach other content because without dedicated funding, civics gets pushed aside. Synic bill 2754 provides sustainable funding to expand successful programs such as schools of democracy and the center for civic education project community pro uh across Hawaii. Every student deserves highquality civic education regardless of which school they attend. This bill makes that possible by affirming that civic education is a core public good essential to the health of our democracy. We respectfully urge uh you to pass Senate Bill 2754 and I am available for any questions. Mahalo for uh the opportunity to testify. >> Thank you and in
084support on Zoom. >> Aloha Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kani. Oh. >> Um, >> go ahead. >> Aloha, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kadani, and members of the education committee. My name is an and I'm a public health student on Aahu. Thank you for letting me testify in strong support of SB 2754. I grew up attending Havaii public schools and never learned how to follow bills, present testimony, or talk with lawmakers. To fill in this gap, I searched for opportunities and joined Havaii Youth Food Council and Coalition for a Tobaccaf Free Havi Youth Council. Hawaii DOE schools didn't teach me how to do what I'm doing now, reading a bill and presenting testimony. I learned these skills actually from joining advocacy groups that I looked for on my own. It's beneficial to have civic education programs in
085school like Puno school democracy program which teaches kindergarteners to be civically engaged so that students can shift from being a spectator to being a participant in our evolving intercultural society. I urge you to support SB 2754 so we can care about public health. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? hearing none. Uh questions, members, I have a question um I guess for um KI. So this grant funding, how is you you said that it would be sustainable funding. So how sustainable would that be? So sustainable funding would uh mean that uh a trust fund would be created um so that uh going forward uh any initiatives can be sustained in terms of like short-term funding which typically happens now say there's a grant program comes through that
086may provide funding for maybe two to three years and then once that funding is done it's up to like the schools to continue the program but where is the funding going to come from to uh to continue that, right? >> So, uh with this structure, there is a a trust fund created uh funds can be uh or money can be put into that trust fund via you know um through legislatively or through uh private funds uh to continue programs so that schools have the opportunity uh once they're engaging in these civics programs to continue them going forward. Right? So it's long-term sustainability for these programs instead of like say if we have to rely on maybe federal funding for a particular program that runs as I said like maybe two three years once that funding
087is gone then uh how does the program sustain itself from that point on >> so what if yeah what if there's no funding then no funding coming in what do >> yeah so if and and that's where we the pace commission can step in working with uh you know folks that we reach out to to uh collaborate on uh if there are funding sources that we can look at uh we can engage with we work with um programs like I civics civics now national coalitions uh that we can collaborate with in terms of where are the possibilities for funding coming in particularly for civics education >> so when you say civics education is it just it's not only for the teachers it's correct right so part to train the teachers as well as the students.
088>> Exactly. Because the idea here is that to sustain our democracy, it it is you know it's necessary to engage students and in order to engage students effectively, teachers need need to be trained um in what uh pedagogically works. uh what are the most you know up-to-date methods for really reaching out and engaging with students so that they critically or they really understand the impact that they can have within their community and uh the state and the nation as a whole. >> As far as you know, is there a um civic education program that is consistent in the DOE right now? Uh there is well there is an opportunity for civics education particularly for middle school uh intermediate school students where you know that adolescent age group uh there's an opportunity to have highly impactful
089civic education curriculum. Um and it's just it in terms of consistently being able to provide that I don't think the mechanism is there right now. uh but it could be if we have such a program as as a trust fund uh with grant opportunities for individual schools to apply for a grant. >> So similarly there are programs now to do book authorship. It's not there but potentially it could be similarly to civics that uh there's some programs but it's not anything that's consistent across the board. Yeah. Assessment. >> Uh I I think this this bill gives us an opportunity to be consistently uh engaging with students and teachers um you know year after year uh which I think is you know the purpose of this uh this bill in itself. >> If the funding somehow
090dries up then is it going to fall upon DOE and the legislature to to then have to support it? Um I think the the structure of this uh gives us the opportunity to seek funds uh to put into that that trust fund right so as you know working with the pace commission and the commissioners on the pace commission as I said we've got a pretty broad reach as to folks that we can reach out to and say you know what are you doing in your state or in your particular community what organizations are you working with that are bringing and funds because they are particularly focused hyperfocused on civic education particularly on the environment we're in today. >> Who would run the trust fund? How does that >> So the trust fund would would be
091within uh of course within the state treasury but then would be run within the the DOE, right? So >> so the DOE would run this trust fund and to get the funding they'd have to go after it which we heard earlier that miss. Right. >> Right. Well, there's opportunity though that for organizations like the Pace Commission to actually seek funding >> with private organizations and the like to put into that trust fund, >> right? But somebody got to go after them, right? You're saying that it's within the week. >> Members, any more questions of this? >> Yes, I have a question. So, is this um supposed to be part of the daily curriculum or an elective? I think you know people ask do that, right? Got to ask DOE that. >> Yeah. So, this doesn't
092uh this as this provides for a structure for sustaining civics education programs. It doesn't mandate what exactly what exact uh programs are being used. Okay. So, it could be an elective or an after school program. >> Yes, it could be an elective, could be an after school program. Right. The the idea here is we want to engage with students so that they know that they that they in turn can become responsible citizens within the community that they live in. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Can we have the OE? So you folks, you're you're in support of this measure. >> Yes. >> Which surprises me because you were just opposed to something. >> So how does this work? How would this work and why are you supporting it? >> Okay. The the department would have a
093trust fund that would um get funding from philanthropic partners, PACE commission, etc. going into the trust fund. Then especially our middle schoolers would have the opport or schools would have the opportunity to apply for projects or to submit projects um special projects to get funding and that funding would come from this fund that would be funding in addition to their um weighted student formula funds that they already have for their schools. So, do you see this as an integrated program or individual program per student? >> Well, I I think when we look at I know Massachusetts has this program and I did look up what they use their trust, their funding for and it is just like um what was just shared. It's for professional development. It's for experiential opportunities for students. Um, it gives
094additional funding for um, innovative civic engagement projects that students may come up with um, that relate to a a a passion that they have. >> But I think what I'm hearing is that it's not just a student's passion or several students passion, but it should be an integrated type of program, civics's education across the board, right? And that's [clears throat] why teachers need to be um trained um or or exposed to more of this so that they can in fact teach the students and not be a oneoff kind of thing. Correct. And our social studies standards do have from K12 a strand that goes across all grade levels that states and this isn't the exact wording and Rosanna you can help me where based on the content that was learned for that grade level students
095have um the opportunity to take informed action. And that's what we and that that informed action could be an action from their um environmental unit. It could be from their um government government unit. It could be from whatever they're studying. So the standards embed the opportunity and the expectation for civic engagement to be a part of um all grade level social studies. Um the professional development is continuing. It it will be ongoing and this bill provides an opportunity for um special projects or additional projects that go above what the school can can fund. Um an opportunity for those to get funded. >> Okay. Um here here lies my my issue. So we heard you earlier talk about a program that's going to be fiscal constraint. no money and here you have this program that you're
096embracing which is going to cost money. It's going to have to get funding. You could have had a trust fund for publishing. You could have recommended that and be in support and yet somehow you and this program is going to be more money than what we're looking at as as the startup for publishing. So again, this consistency from the DOE as to where and how you folks are looking at some of these programs really concerns me, >> right? You see the inconsistency here. >> Um I I will still go back to we fully support student books and student publishing. We support um civic engagement opportunities. And in this case, we're not asking for additional money from the legislature, >> but you may have to at some point if there's no money and you can't raise
097the money, right? >> Well, I think then this opportunity might not be available, but the opportunity to teach civics's education will still be available and the opportunity for students to take informed action will still be available. I would hope that you would had that same attitude earlier because this this first line says the department supports this whereas in the other case said we cannot support. So again I I find a huge inconsistency going on. >> Senator, >> so do you believe that a trust fund is the best way to set this up? >> Um because when you take a look at audit reports generally they've been recommending that we close a lot of our trust funds, right? I I I think trust fund is an opportunity and I would have to defer that question. Um
098and I can get back to you. >> So So there was no you know and I don't know if this is your bill or what but I I guess was there any thought of the foundation doing this public school foundation >> because it's mostly philanthropic dollars, right? >> Correct. Correct. But I I will get back to you with the um >> Okay. Well, because it would be it would be good to understand how many trust funds does DOE have? I know other departments have it. Okay. Right. >> And and how are we doing with our management of those other type of funds if if this does move forward. So, >> okay. I'll get that information. >> Thank you. >> I guess the question is is begged is how many trust funds do you have? >>
099That's I I'm going to get that information to you. >> I I don't know off hand. We don't know any. Maybe does border education [clears throat] know. You know how many trust funds the deal we have? >> How many trust funds? >> We don't know. I didn't even know we had trust funds. >> Interesting. Anybody knows? No. Maybe. Maybe chat GPT knows. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I don't know either this point. Um, Senator C, did you have questions? >> No questions. >> No. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Senate Bill 3279 also relating to the Department of Education establishes the board of education internal audit office to conduct program and fiscal evaluations. The Department of Education's key strategic initiatives to identify program improvements and provide other benefits. requires the board of education to establish
100standing committee with a scope that includes audit related responsibilities. Prohibits the department of education from expending FY2627 appropriated monies for certain auditor evaluation specialists and related positions and expenses. Let's see. Superintendent Department of Ed. >> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair. Um, Tammy Chun, Department of Education. Uh, the Department of Education provides comments on the bill. We are primarily pointing out concerns with two things. One is the timeline that's in the bill. The bill would leave the Department of Education or the Board of Education without an internal audit office for one year as currently written. And the second is the personal impacts um of the way that this the staffing would transition. Thank you. >> Thank you, Board of Education. >> The board stands on its testimony, chair, >> and your testimony is >> Would you
101explain your testimony for the public? >> [laughter] >> You got to stand. >> You have you have the written testimony in front of you. Chairman, put the people but don't know what your written testimony is. >> Yeah, the testimony is posted online as well. But um to summarize the testimony from the board, thank you. >> Um the board will u is in the process of amending its bylaws as you know and in order for us to create any any standing committee it requires um amending our bylaws. The plan right now is to propose an amendment to the bylaws at the board general business meeting tomorrow and then if the board passes that that um recommendation to amend the bylaws and it would stand up an audit committee at the March board meeting. So then that
102would mean that the board would have four standing committees. As you know the board has a finance and infrastructure committee, student achievement committee and a human resources committee. um over the past few years it was the finance and infrastructure committee that had the audit responsibility. So what this would do obviously is take that responsibility and create a standing committee for audits and um with that sole responsibility to receive and review all audits external and internal to the department and then make recommendations to the board um for action if necessary. Okay. So, you folks are t doing ex what what the bill is asking for >> at least partly. Uh but the it doesn't address the um in our testimony, we don't address the um testimony from the department regarding the timeline and you know um
103how that would result in a some gaps perhaps if there's a transition and so on. So, um, but if the Senate and the legislature in general would like the board to, uh, work with all of you to work out that it's a surmountable problem. It's not insurmountable. >> Okay. Thank you. We have questions. Uh, Johnny May Perry in support. Um, Megan Blazak also in support. Anyone else here wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none members questions. I have one question Roy. So external or internal audits would that include the state auditors um audits? >> It's not clear for me for from um as you know um the department we have a office of internal audits, right? So um whenever there's an external audit audit generally is generated from the legislature that's usually farmed out
104to the state auditor's office. So I'm not clear as to whether or not shifting existing staff uh under the direct um purview of the board will mean that the current internal audit office will be delegated to do program audits, performance audits and things like that. Yeah, as you well know, Senator, the uh audits come in many flavors and so the internal audits basically are fiscal in nature, right? The uh for example the internal audit has a hotline that anyone in the for the public or can call and say oh they have some concerns about a school's lunch money fund or whatever the case may be that would trigger the internal audit office to take a look at that. The office also does on a regular scheduled basis audits of every school in the system. But
105given the capacity they have, obviously they cannot complete all 250 schools in one year. It's usually on a five to six year cycle that they get to every school, you know. So I, you know, it's really no different than restaurant inspections or, you know, all the rest of it. You know, obviously the government doesn't have the capacity to inspect every restaurant every year. sort of done on a cyclical basis. >> So would this committee then possibly uh review external audits and then recommend the the board as to taking it up or >> Yes. Yes. Because the for example as you well know because um you get a lot of audits not just from the state auditor's office but ex other sources as well. Um some audits are the results are benign in nature right um
106the majority of the internal audit reports are everything looks good everything complies with existing standard operating procedures and so on so at that point [clears throat] it probably is not necessary for the audit again the board hasn't passed yet but say if the board does set up an audit committee um I would think they would not recommend that general business meeting take up audits that are >> yeah neutral you know but of course if the audit such as the heat abatement audit I suspect obviously they would recommend it >> driver's ed audit >> the driver's ed yes yes >> okay members any questions >> okay thank you >> okay we are on our last item believe it or not it's been a long day Senate Bill um relating to schools includes weekends and holidays as
107times where a reasonable [clears throat] or warning reasonable warning or request to leave school premises is not required for a person to commit the offense of criminal trespass in the first degree. Specifies that the offense of criminal trespass in the first degree. A reasonable warning or request to leave school premises includes a written lifetime prohibition against the person entering the premises. Okay, that's a very interesting bill that we have. We have the attorney general's office. Good. We need some legal legal advice here. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, senator court, uh deputy attorney general Mark Tom for the department. Uh department just provides uh comments on Senate Bill 2611. Um the department appreciates the intent with the broad enforcement on school premises. um would just note to the committee that um criminal trespass in the first
108degree um that's on under 70813 authority right statutes it um covers um situations that are legally enforceable prohibitions already. Um so based on that the department would just recommend removing um the language in this bill pages 2 line 19 through page four line 14. um specifically that's just to remove any additional obstacles that this bill um would actually create in enforcement and holding individuals accountable when they commit this offense. I'll be here for questions. is that the amendment says that p that person enters or remain unlawfully in or upon the premises of any public school as defined in section 32A-101 or any private school after reasonable warning and request to leave the school authorities or a police officer provided that the warning or request to leave shall be unnecessary between 10 p.m. and 5:00 a.m.
109and on weekends and school holidays. Is that amendment you're talking about? >> I apologize um chair. It's uh in it would be removing as I look at it uh it's it's everything after the after adding in weekends and school holidays anything for the purpose of um through the rest of the bill. Um >> okay wait a minute what >> uh that's on I apologize I said page two but it's actually page three and it's lines five starting at for the purposes of and that goes through page four, line 14. And I apologize for that. Uh, >> so you want that we should take that out. >> That's That's correct. >> Is that the gist of the bill though? >> Well, this bill is covering the offense of crim um Okay. Um, this criminal this is
110covering criminal trespass in the first degree. So, when we look at this offense, we're looking at that right now under that charge, there's just a reasonable warning or request when somebody is unlawfully on the property. Um, this added language here, uh, what it does is creates, um, it because the department's position is included and covered under a reasonable warning or request. All this does is outline what has to be written in this in this um, prohibition. However, we don't have to prove that um when we're doing this charge. All we have to do is prove that there was a reasonable warning or request. This additional language in here would require us in a situation, and these are case- by case basis, but if there's a prohibition and it's based on this type of scenario, an
111addition that it's a request or warning, I have to prove >> that the language in here is on that. So because it's already uh presumed to be covered under reasonable warning or request, I think although the intent is well intended, it's it just adds more elements that the the state would have to prove to convict or to hold somebody accountable. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So [clears throat] So looking at the bill, the only thing that this bill adds is uh line three, >> right? >> That's correct. on weekends and school holidays um as those are not covered right now. Um there is no request or request or needed when it's between 10 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. is I assume that it's the intention is the schools are closed. Uh but on weekends and school
112holidays that's not covered. So um the department >> takes no position on that but then left it in there as it's a policy decision by the legislature. >> Okay. Any questions? >> No. I I just want to say for the record that I do support that amendment because uh very right next door to our high school and across the street from our intermediate school is a homeless encampment that frequently we have trespassers that go on to the schools. So I can see how something like that could drag on the process but I just wanted to mention that. Thank you chair. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Sorry to interrupt the testimony, but we have um Department of Education Kayashi. [clears throat] Hello, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, Senator Dort, Shantima, Assistant Superintendent, testify on behalf
113of the Department of Education. Uh the department supports this measure to promote safety on campus. Uh we support empowering administrators to issue lifetime bans for egregious offenders, establishing stricter penalties for criminal trespass and streamlining law enforcement's ability to address unauthorized entry during non-school hours. Department stands on its written testimony in support of this measure and we stand by for questions. Thank you. >> Thank you also HSTA. Aloha chair, vice chair, Sarah Milan Lafan on behalf of HSTA noi. Um we support this. We know a lot of our members too are often um in the building perhaps doing special assignments or doing school trips um on those weekend hours and we also want to like Senator Court said keep our spaces safe. Um you know think about things you put around the campus like um art
114installations or kid work that we want to make sure um we can keep everybody safe. So we support this. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Estraa Marin in support. Anyone else wishing to testify on this measure? Hearing none. Members, any further questions? Um, okay. Thank you. We're going to go into recess. Calling back to order. Committee on Education for Decision making. Uh members, we dealt with the first two items already. So, we are on Senate Bill 2877. Uh this is the uh one-year pilot project for student authored book publication pilot. The recommendation is to amend um amend the bill and also to include language that says that this program shall be integrated into the current curriculum and be like a capstone um in that. So with that members, any discussion? >> No. >> Hearing no
115discussion. Uh Senator Kitani for the vote. Uh chair votes eye. >> Senate bill 2877 [clears throat] to pass with amendments. Chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Senator Kaga excuse. Senator Ashimoto excuse. Senator. >> I measures adopted. >> Thank you for Senate Bill 2793 relating to individual sports. The recommendation is to defer indefinitely. Okay. Senate bill 2880. This is clarifies that the charter public school teachers are eligible for incentives under teacher national board certification. Recommendation is to pass as is. Any discussion? Hearing none. Chair votes I. Senate bill 2880 to pass un amended. Chair votes I. Those president votes chair vice chair votes Ianaga excuse Hashimoto excuse senator deort measures adopted >> thank you on senate bill 2754 relating to civic education recommend is to uh amend to an first of all we're going to
116do technical non-substantive amendments we're also going to amend to um require or shall that this civic education be embedded into the uh integrated into the social studies uh course at each of the schools and that um office of curriculum and instructional support services does not exist. So replace that with the office of curriculum and office and instructional design or office of student support services which is it instructional design. >> Okay. So we will correct that. Um, let's see. Did I miss anything? Okay. And I'm going to defect the date because we're not sure how many trust funds and whether or not that is an appropriate um vehicle. So, um, with that, chair votes I on Senate Bill 2754 SD1. >> Chair votes I. Chair votes I. Fukunaga and Hashimoto excuse. Senator Dort >> I measures
117adopted. Madam Chair, >> thank you. Senate Bill 3279. This establishes the board of education internal audit office. Uh recommendation again to do an SD1 technical non-substantive amendments. Blank out the appropriation on page three. And I'm going to insert language about uh external audits to be reviewed by the by this entity and that their recommendation to the BOE as to them reviewing that measure. Um any discussion members? Hearing none. Chair votes I on Senate Bill 3279 SD1. >> Chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Gunaga excuse. Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Court. >> Hi. >> Thank you. And the last measure 2611. This uh relating to trespass trespassers at schools on weekends. The recommendation is to delete out or take into consideration and and the amendments um in the attorney general's um testimony and in the discussion
118and deleting all of those items from page three to page four. Okay. Um any discussion members hearing none uh chair votes eye on Senate Bill 2611 SD1 pass with amendments. Chair votes I vice chair votes I excuse. Hashimoto. >> Hi Court. >> Hi. >> Members, we're done. Thank you so much for