001Good afternoon everyone. [clears throat] Here welcome to the committee on higher education. We are in room 229. Today is Wednesday, February 4th. Um, in the unlikely event that we must abruptly end this hearing due to technical difficulties, the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business on Friday, February 6 at 1 p.m. in conference room 229 and a public notice will be posted in the legislaturator's on the legislaturator's website. Um, in light of the five measures before the committee and the number of testifiers, testimony will be limited to one minute per testifier. Uh and if there are any technical issues during your testifying, if you're online uh or on Zoom, please note that the committee has your written testimony on file and we appreciate your understanding in the event there is any kind of glitches.
002Today's hearing, we are receiving measures on various uh bills and starting with Senate Bill 2022. Um, this bill requires the school facilities authority to establish a pilot program to develop three new public schools through private public partnerships. It authorizes SFA school facilities authority to use various public private partnership models including long-term leases, lease backs, acquisitions or sales of land and assets and requires interim and final reports to the legislature and appropriate funds to administer the pilot program. So with that, our first testifier is our department the superintendent of education Keith Hayashi. So DOE Good afternoon, chair, uh, members of the committee. Uh, Jesse Suki. I'm deputy superintendent of operations u testifying for the department. We um stand on our testimony which has comments and is available for questions. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >>
003Thank you, >> Ricky Fujitani from SFA. >> Thank you, committee and chair. U Ricky Witania with the school facilities authority. The school facilities authority supports this bill. The the cost for building schools in Hawaii is has gone way too far. We average over six times the national average. At this moment in time, there's 17 schools in various stages of that need to be that have been identified for new for replacement. uh nine state, eight military. That's a $3.4 billion construction budget which this time the state can't afford. So Hawaii needs to look at new models and this is one new model. Thank you. >> Thank you Ed. No for charter school commission. >> Good afternoon chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Ed no executive director state public charter school commission and we stand in
004strong support this and on our written testimony as well and appreciate the opportunity as a possible pathway for charter schools and facilities. It's a long time coming. Thank you very much. >> Thank you David Merro. >> Hello Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kanani, members of the committee. I'm David Sunmiro, executive director of Ho Kitskan. Hoy Kitskan stands on our written testimony and strong support of SB 2024 with a few notes. Given the variance in local communities that are aging or growing rapidly, the status quo is inadequate for providing highquality school access to families. At the same time, we know that there is local knowledge and ingenuity to bring innovative thinking to school facilities. We also recognize that facil uh agencies like the Hawaii School Facilities Authority can bring an additional resources and expertise off of school
005teams to make gold out of peanuts. Please help pass SB 2024 as a way to help more families access highquality school facilities without burdensome weight times. Mahalo. >> Thank you, Matthew Zetello. Hope I said that correctly. Aloha chair uh vice chair and committee members. My name is Matt Satello and I am the executive director of Hawaii Technology Academy HTA uh the state's largest public charter school. Uh we have campuses on four islands uh and uh six six sites across four islands and a fully virtual program. uh we are currently at around 2,200 students enrolled um which over the past four years has been about a 60% increase and um even with that growth we still are experiencing extensive weight lists and um uh particularly in southwest Aahu and we really uh I'm here to just
006sort of put a face to hta and to public schools needs and to just really be in strong support of SB 2024 and um all for your time. Thank you. See, Alec Marente. Okay, we have a number of individuals that uh gave comments and in also in support. Um but anyone in this room wishing to testify that I didn't call on or you have a need to speak? If not, members, we're open for questions and I guess SFA So how how will you work in coordination with DOE as far as doing the these um projects or is there not a need to work with them? >> So this is agnostic to the type of school. It could be a public school. It could be a public charter school. So the RFP would not specify that.
007It could be either or. What the bill does is what it seeks to do is just to create a procurement process to let the private side work with schools to come up with innovative ideas on how to do this with less state funding, whether it be mixed use, whether it be use of land. You know, it's it's it's kind of like a a concept award. And this concept has been done in several other jurisdictions. One of it, the most prominent one is in Maryland where the initial tranch was six schools and they've increased it to 14 as a result where they've literally built uh 14 new schools within like eight years and refernished their entire district footprint. So that's the motto is let's try something different. >> Okay. And so what kind [clears throat] of
008measurements will we be able to in in institute that will let us know whether it's been more cost effective? >> Right? So all this is is the RFP. So the intent is to put an RFP >> award concept award. It's kind of like a two-step. This then allows a real detailed proforma plan where you can clearly understand what the private side's going to put in what if there is a need for a state contribution what it is what the terms are and then each of those would be a decision based that the ledge would have to pass subsequently in the next bienium all this does is lay down the planning concept for it. Yeah. And it the appropriation is being asked for $3 million, >> right? The idea is what they call you typically call
009this capture money. It's like with the Alawawaii uh bridge, right? The first step is award three teams, seed them with half a million dollars and they develop a more detailed plan for subsequent award. So the 3 million would be used to either give them half a million or 750,000 to then flush it out within the next bianium. And then that's the that's when the decisions have to be made based upon their proforma and what their proposal is. We don't know what it's going to be like. It's going to be pretty wide open. Each each sector or each proposal will have a different model. >> So at the end of the day, we have these performers or these models, but then we still have to pull the trigger, put on put on put in the money
010in order to make it reality, >> right? And that we don't know. Some may be very little, some may be a lot, right? We won't know until we get the private side to come up with different different ideas on how to how to attack this problem. >> So what kind of criteria would you be using to make to determine which communities or which pilots are selected or which projects are selected? >> Right. Um clearly the sectors are where the high need is which is really uh west leeward central right that's where the huge need is. I mean if you look at right now there are probably six schools in design in that area but the cost to fund those schools is astronomical. So that would be the best area for this to be targeted especially
011since in those areas there are big developers where there is a huge need for them to have a school as part of their property development. This is not like on the mainland where it's it's it's almost like an amenity for the school. I mean for the property developer to have a school, right? But in this case, they might come up with an innovative idea to build it for the state. >> Okay. And finally, does this bill um includes non-charter public schools? >> Uh no, I mean I mean the intent would be just uh those governed by the public charter commission and and DOE [clears throat] schools. >> Okay. Any questions? So after the RFP RFP process, what is the timeline after that's been completed? >> Right. Ideally, we want to come in the next benion
012budget and then have these proposals for the legislature to to vet whether they decide to fund it or not because each of these will be real unique in the deal crafted by the the the the private team that has formed this all up, right? the the the team based in uh Capo might be radically different than that of central Wahoo or other key regions where we need schools but that's where the vast majority of school need is based upon data is >> okay so by the next bianial then you'll be able to give us a little bit more clearer >> yeah our intent is three solid proposals with detailed what you get what's the lease term What's the state contribution? What's the revenue stream for the housing associated with it? Whether it's mixed use, you
013know, >> so does your crystal ball tell you that there's a lot of demand that you get a lot of proposals or >> my crystal ball says there are several good ones because the developers those regions need schools for all the >> there are people out there that >> right that will be definitely interested. Yes. Okay. What if you have way too many? How do you manage it? >> That's why we're only going to award three >> concept awards. >> And who's who who actually makes a decision? >> Um >> you have a commission committee or just you by yourself? >> No, it's a it's [clears throat] like um for the example in in the Milani RFP, we had people that did these public public partnerships before. We had uh members of the community that
014have that experience. We had um people at uh that did two before. So the committee would be vetted based upon the criteria of the RSP award and that's what the award would be based upon. So it would follow 103D 303. >> Okay. Procurement law you have to um appoint the procurement. >> Absolutely. >> Right. Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Um and how do you see yourself um working with UEE? So they would be a prop they may be on one of the teams proposing a school at one location. Nothing precludes uh any charter school any future charter school or the department of education to submit a bit with a developer on how to build a school cost effectively. >> So so draw me this picture. So how how would D do D do D D D
015D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D D O D O DOE go with a developer to provide a a proposal, >> right? Like any or any other public charter school? They would say a concept that we need a school for example in cap and we need this school. It's going to cost us this much based upon what our requirements are to run a school. Now if that amount can be a developer can make that deal work where that property now is mixed use where it includes both housing, school, other mixed use. then they may annie up a sizable amount of the money to build that school because on in addition
016to the school they'll get use of their property for commercial for housing rentals for public parks. >> Yeah. So, >> right. So, who's who's leading these project? Like who's the tip of the spear? SFA will create the framework of the RFP giving you all these ideas like this and then we cast a wide net. Hopefully we get a lot of proposals. We're going to select three seed them with more money to get deep because that's when you expend design money. You have to look at financing. You know money is expended more deeper. >> Where would you get the seed money from the three million million would be enough for the for that? >> Yes. >> Okay. And then so in in the case of DOE, DOE would work with a contractor to come up with
017a concept that to present, >> right? Because they would have to figure out or get a partner that's willing to annie up 40 50 million for the building of the school. So if you follow the national average on the school, >> so why wouldn't they just um [clears throat] partner up and do it in >> I mean if that's the way they >> Yeah. if if if their proposal is they can build an elementary school for $40 or $50 million to meet their needs, then that would be one proposal, right? But as it is right now, right, our preliminary estimates for schools in East Cap are 160 million for an elementary school, 300 million for a middle school, right? It's a different uh it's hard to build get a developer up that kind of money
018for a school. And um will DOE have any role in um evaluating the adequacy of these facilities? >> Uh no, they're going to make it part of their proposal. If they're proposing it, >> but I guess if it's not their proposal and say it's other proposals having to do with schools, >> then it will be a charter school or whoever the whoever the entity is partnering up to do the proposal. >> Okay. Anybody else? How about So I noticed that you basically um gave comments and uh you said although the department does not view the PPP structure in Senate Bill 2024 as compatible with the department's facility development model PPPs may be more approp appropriate for startup charter schools. So, can you elaborate? >> Sure. Um, there was a lot said. >> So, just some
019clarify. >> Oh, Jesse Suki, uh, deputy superintendent of operations, Department of Education. Um, just a a couple of points. U first, uh, one is so we are requesting though the board approved funding for three schools. Um they're about 141 million each um for East Capo Elementary um we're asking for planning money um for another school and the CAM 3 um replacement school. So uh and the planning money is was far less than 140. It's um off the top of my head it's less a lot less. So it's about 141 for the other two. Uh so first that the second thing is um the P3s um at uh I'm very familiar with um those are for student housing and usually with P3s because it's private financing the private financeers are looking at some sort of revenue
020to pay back the private bonds that they're going to get from the private bond market usually tax exempt. So when you're doing stuff like affordable housing, which I've done, student housing, which I've done, uh there's revenue generated so that the proforma pencils out because there's payments over time that can pay off that bond financing. So with a school like a DOE public school, there's no rents. So um we depend on public financing. Uh the properties that SFA is referring to out west are set aides from land use commission uh requirements when you know the old Campbell estate divided up and proposed projects and lands were set aside and so you know we know that those lands are out there and uh as the need for schools um became necessary when we're asking for funding like
021for East Capo and there's a lot of need fail. Um, but we're not using a P3 model um for Department of Education um because it wouldn't fit because again there's no revenue um source. So part of the proposal talks about pilot projects. So if if SFA were for example to do a P3 on uh DOE land, another way that P3s are done is that um there's this thing called availability payments. So availabil availability payments are payments that a public agency makes so that the building that is built, owned and operated and financed by the private developer. Um our right to occupy it and that building be kept at a certain condition is made um you know we pay for it through these availability payments over time. So, you know, we we wouldn't support that either
022unless we could get operating funds over the, you know, usually it's like a 65-y year uh ground lease that would help us pay for to be there in the building. There's also a lease back option in the um pilot, you know, you know, so that's funds, but that we would have to have and pay to to lease as as the DOE. So if if I could make one point about P3s from a public school facility perspective where revenues are not generated, uh it costs money whether you do it the way we do it or the way the private sector does it because the construction costs don't change. So what changes? What is what is different? Um, for a non-revenue generating project, one thing you might get is guarantee that it's operated and maintained for the
023life of the project in a certain condition and and you pay for that. So, you have to pay for that. That's not free. Um, but then, you know, you run into this issue of privatization. Um, so you have to be sure that you coordinate with unions who usually operate the the building janitors and so forth. Um so I think what we think you know in our testimony we said it would work for charter schools because charter schools have a lot more flexibility right they um actually currently seek private funding private partnerships for the campuses and facilities because the univers the DOE does not build private charter school facilities. Uh so you know in a P3 concept might work for them um with this extra I mean you have to have some kind of commercial component
024um like SFA was talking about because you need some kind of gen re revenue generating source. Um but again I don't know how all that works because usually the the the revenue stream is tied to the actual facility. So you know you'd have the commercial separated from the school. So who pays for it? And and one last point I'd make is um when you talk about building cheaper because the cost is the cost labor, capital, land, um it it is cost more in Hawaii, private or public. So when you talk about building for less, you're talking about building less. So, smaller classrooms, maybe you don't have a band room, maybe the cafeteria is open and it's just a pavilion, maybe the um you know, there's not as uh offices for administration to meet with students.
025Um you know, if there's a fight or something, there's no privacy. You know, these are the kind of things you're going to have to reduce so you can get to that. I think I heard 40 million. Um so, those are the things that you're going to have to give up. Um but again it might be workable with with charter schools which have more flexibility and not such a huge portfolio and program uh that requires certain dimensions um in order to offer the curriculums that we have. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So but this measure does not require DOE. So it could be all charter schools. >> It could be right and to that extent we support it. >> The other thing is you know I I have to beg to differ with you. The cost
026is the cost because there's ways of delivering it that could be a lot less without having to sacrifice on the size and the cost. I mean one of the ways is to cut out cut out consultants, cut out, you know, the inefficiencies, cut out the change orders. There is so much waste going on and what I'm concerned with DOE is that you folks are so stuck in the way it's done. It's done the same way over and over and it's a cookie cutter and there's no change. And if we're going to try to do something new and move forward and never in in all my years I thought that schools would turn into health centers but basically that's what it is that the nurses would be giving out medication at schools. The times have changed,
027schools purposes have changed. you know, there's ways to put um teacher housing perhaps on the campuses, but if we're not going to open up our minds and doing some of this stuff and if DOE is not going to try to look at how do we change the way of delivering facilities as well as education, then we're going to be stuck into the role that we've been in before and we're not going to progress ahead. So I think we need to have some capability of looking at these these proposals and trying to see how in fact it'll improve the way we deliver services and not the same way doing it over and over again. I'm not sure that this is going to work but you know that's why it's a pilot project. That's why we're going
028to start with three and I have a couple other pilot projects that we're going to be proposing during the session for other areas um that I think it would behoove us not to go ahead and and and do these things. So I hope DOE will work in conjunction that it's not going to be two opposing entities because up until now the SFA and DOE as far as facilities wise that has what's been going on and over the years the reason that SFA was created and I was not one of the creators but it were created because DOE was not able to do the job. You know, you guys have been asked that or I don't know if you've been asked, but that 12 new schools were supposed to be built and if it was built
029only two over the 10-year period. So, there's there's issues and concerns at how we're delivering these these facilities. >> Questions? Yeah. Are you folks factoring in the escalation cost with 140 million >> or is that just construction? Yeah, usually when um the team develops a budget, they're looking at the the schedule for building and once it's once it's funded and we get the appropriation and it's drawn down, you know, they they have factored in, you know, the cost and contingencies. Yeah. >> Mhm. What would be I guess your prediction as far as completing those projects if if it does fall in your folks pipeline? >> The the uh budget the board approved >> um we would complete them. >> No, the building out. >> What's that? >> Right. the the so we go through the
030RFP, right? And then if it is a DOE school and not a charter school, then it sits in your folks on your folks desk. What is the time period that you're projecting it's going to stay in the DOE system? See, I think so I'll I'll let you answer that and then I'll I have a followup. >> Okay. So So for the schools that we're asking for two of the the um Capo East Capo Elementary School, it's already designed and planned. So we're actually asking for construction money. So when we get that money then you know we issue the RFP we get the contract to build the plans and then it's built out. Uh that can take about three years to build right once we get the money. Um CAM the CAM 3 temp school is
031is currently being discussed and um planned and uh you know working closely with DAGs and the governor's office on on that one. Uh and then the the plan for is a design. So, we're just asking for design money right now. And so, once we get the design, then we'll come back and and ask for construction money. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, CH. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Thank you, Jesse. Um, so this bill would expand SFA's authority over public charter schools, but my question is to date, has SFA been collaborative with DOE in their dealings with DOE and the schools facilities? I I can only talk about the time I've been here since um September and I know that my team and we have been working with um SFA um on for example the
032Central Maui Middle School. Um we've identified sites that they're now exploring um for potential housing. I believe there's three sites um that we all agreed on. Um the Billy Lani workforce uh housing that's um being built. Yeah, that there was you know coordination on that. I'm not going to say that um you know it's not without passion because on both sides we have passion which I think is good because we all at the end of the day want to deliver uh you know some project that is going to benefit teachers and students. So um but it's moving those things are moving. We're collaborating. >> Thank you. >> Sorry question again. >> Okay. >> Yes. Um really quick. So you had mentioned about availability payment. Why go that route and not uh geo bonds route? Um,
033you know, we looked into this on other projects I've worked on and actually geo bond money is usually cheaper than private sector non-t taxable bonds. Um, so yeah, that's a good question. So what are you getting in a P3 is the real question. Is it um, you know, the operation and maintenance is going to be taken care of over the life of the project? Um, do we have to make availability payments for that because there's no revenue coming in? um are the uh you know is the project going to have these other elements that generate revenue you know that's possible it's it's kind of an experiment to see if this is going to work which is why I think it's a pilot right >> thank you chair >> so you mentioned the three schools east
034co the cam placement hely so the soonest you're going to even have one building could be would be three years from now >> soonest >> that's a long time the other two are going to be another two three years down the line It takes time. Yeah. >> Yeah. But how long ago have had you guys identified these areas? >> Well, the the list of schools you've uh talked about um you know, we have that list and some of them have design completed and they're waiting funding. Some of them are in design and the ones we're asking for some of them in construction. Um but you know we we the way we figure out what are we going to do is based on need right so where's the need because these developments come up over time
035>> but the need for these been there the needs for have been there it's not just now >> right so the other thing I was going to say was the second thing is money so we come in and we ask and >> right but you could have come in earlier and asked too right >> I mean again that's the concern >> yeah we asked >> yeah Okay. So, the Kihei [clears throat] school, when you guys built the Kihei school, what did it cost? The final cost for the Kihei school. >> I I have to get back to you on that. I wasn't here for that. Sorry. >> But that's the most expensive school ever built in this whole state. >> Is that right? >> You're asking me. And yet, you're the >> I was I
036wasn't here for that one. Sorry. >> But whether you're here or not, I mean, your head was not in the sand. I mean, I you know, I did I wasn't DOE. I didn't build the school. I don't live over there. Yeah, I still I'm aware that the school costs a lot because there was red rock. So, it would be helpful if you're going to be in this position that you know the history of what's going on with facilities because if you don't understand the problems that we've had and what the um the obstacles have been, how can you go forward, >> right? Because you kind of know these things. So, that's the one more expensive Hard Rock. The recommendation was not to build there, but we still ended up building there. And then you guys
037didn't put the overpass. Nobody, you know, so you talk about cost and you talk about, you know, doing all of this stuff. Yet, a lot of the issues and the downfall has been because of the lack of whatever it is that facilities at DOE has just not been able to to work quickly, efficiently, and getting these projects out. So, um I think that's one of the biggest areas that we have to that that is facing the department and whether or not you guys are going to be able to move forward to deliver some of these facilities. >> Well, we are delivering facilities. I we've delivered hundreds of classrooms, gyms, tracks, you know, all all kinds of things over the year. Yeah, you do you you've done a some maintenance and all of that and yeah,
038we've put in a lot of the CIP requests and some of those things have been have been done. But overall with the billion dollars worth of projects that is still on the books that haven't been fully delivered, >> by the way, and and thank you for the list you updated, but you still didn't include all of the information, which boggles my mind that how many times we got to show you what it is we wanted and what you guys gave us and you still didn't get it right. So, I'm just like, >> I'm sorry. I I didn't know that you felt that is >> okay. I'm not talking about that now. Okay. Okay. We're talking about this because we don't have a lot of time. But, um, you know, I even now lost my train
039of thought. Maybe dementia is setting in for me as well. But, uh, but you know, it you you have to be able to in the Kihei school, you know, just problem after problem, cost after we could have probably built three schools with that money. three schools and and the timing it's just forever for these schools. I understand some of the schools are busting at the seams in in the west side. >> There's a need there. >> Yes. And we've we've known that for a long time. So, okay. Any other questions? Senator Hashimoto, questions? No. Okay. There no other questions. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Senate Bill 21 163. Okay. Um this is relating also to charter public charter schools. Uh this strengthens fiscal accountability and oversight for public charter schools by standardizing annual
040independent financial audits requiring public disclosure of audits and expanding review and enforcement authority. authorized the auditor to conduct financial audits of the charter schools uh deemed high risk or for in insolveny and requires a one-time three-year look back at audit for all charter schools with according to the legislature. So with that we have office of the auditor condo not here. Okay. Are you online? >> Okay. not present on Zoom. Chair. >> Okay. Thank you. Hawaii State Board of Education >> Thomas. Can you identify yourself, please? >> Aloha, Chair Marcato Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, and members of the uh committee. Uh my name is Bill Araki. I'm the vice chair for the Hawaii Board of Education, and I'm so happy to be here. Uh it's been a while since I've come and have made any statements.
041>> Did you miss this? [laughter] >> Um again, um the board appreciates the legislaturator's concern regarding fiscal accountability and stands on the written testimony offering comments to this measure. >> Okay, we may have questions for you. So, thank you. >> Okay, thank you. Okay, Edno. Good afternoon, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, members of the committee. Danny Vascatales, Jr., finance director with the state public charter school commission. >> I was going to say, you don't look like [laughter] I'm up to on this one. >> You have the commission's testimony. We did want to um clarify and point out um that charter schools as well as the commission uh conduct annual independent financial audits. Uh we currently have four local CPA firms that conduct these audits. Um we're hoping to add um a few more on shortly.
042Um but again, the commission does conduct these audits. Charter schools conduct these audits. we collect this information and can provide it to the committee um upon its request. So, Mahal, thank you for the opportunity. >> Okay, why don't you sit here because I don't know that we anyone else wishing to testify? We only had three three testifiers. No. Okay. So, we have questions. So, I guess I'll I'll start off. So, what is the difference between the audits that you already do now and what is being asked for in this in this bill? Not certain if there is a difference. It does seem that it's you know it clarifies against independent financial audits. So again these audits we assume would need to be conducted by CPA firms you know except for the case of the state
043auditors um requests. Um so again we it appears to be that these audits will be these same audits um conducted by these uh independent CPA firms and not any other state agency. >> So in essence you're saying you're already audited and that you don't feel that this bill is needed. We um I know with the inclusion of the state auditor in this measure, there are um other concerns, especially with um some of the previous conversations we've had in terms of some schools experiencing financial distress sentence that can lead to closure. Um I believe that the legislature feels that additional steps are needed to again prevent this case or at least try to get a better sense of ensuring that um not only the commission um other state agencies such as the board of education and
044in this case maybe um the state auditor. if we're made aware of these things that you know as early as possible that hopefully you know school things like a school closure can be um avoided especially for financial [clears throat] reasons. >> So would you be looking at this measure to see maybe what are some of the other things that you you folks can make sure your audits cover so that you don't have to have a whole separate audit. We can definitely work with of course with the board of education as well as the state auditor to ensure that um if there are any specific items that either the legislature requests or that either the board or the auditor feel should be included, we can definitely work with them and as well as our accounting CPA
045firms to see if we can incorporate them into the audit. >> Okay, questions members? >> Uh questions, chair, thank you. Um what is your turnaround time to produce an audit once you have been instructed? How long does it take? >> We usually start field work at least I'll speak for the commission side. Um I know the charter school side it may vary but the commission on an annual basis has to undergo the single audit which is the more comprehensive. It includes a compliance component um versus just a standard financial audit. So charter schools as well, if they meet that threshold of receiving for this upcoming year, it's going to be $1 million in federal funds receiving and expending. They have they they're going to cross single audit threshold. On the commission side, we start field
046work roughly mid August and going into early September when we first set, you know, provide the information that our auditors request. We go through Our due date for the audits are November 1st. So we're working from like I said about mid mid August up through November 1st um to try to get that audit in by that specific due date. Um that due date is actually driven by the reporting requirements for our state department of education and they're working on their audit as well as the annual comprehensive review run by D. So, three months. >> Well, like I said, on the commission side, that's the time frame that we have and we've set up with our auditors is to again, everything is kind of pointing at that November 1st deadline to have a report. Um because
047on our side as well as with the charter school side um our commission will review and accept the audit and on the charter school side as well their charter school governing board will review accept and in some cases the governing board is you know will work through some issues with the auditors. >> Yeah. Um what happens if that three-month deadline is not met? We have had issues with schools not being able to meet the um timeline, especially uh this year. Part of it was due to some of the issues we've had on the federal level. There's a compliance supplement that's released on an annual basis that provides either additional guidelines at the federal level. That was late this year. But in this case, the commission sometimes has to exercise its intervention protocol, meaning that we'll
048have to contact the school's governing board to essentially put them on notice. It's called a notice of concern to put them on notice to say your audit was due on November 1st. it hasn't been submitted on time and we need to get clarification or understand what's going on and when to expect that audit. >> So really no real consequences or penalties um if they don't meet those deadlines. nothing in ter um it's something that commission we do take you know commissioners our commissioners are aware of any anything that comes up um if a charter school is either habitually late or um they get you know um seems to have a lot of issues it's something commissioners could note and decide to take further action on >> so I believe that that really is kind [clears
049throat] of the root of the problem here is that there's really no hard deadlines um which according to the state auditors testimony is I mean to be to be opening up audits for DOE um would overwhelm the department but that is because you folks are not imposing any hard deadlines or any real consequences for that. If um if that's the issue again that I I think the state auditor is bringing up as well as the legislature is looking at we can work with our auditors to let them know that you know to I guess the ultimate consequence would be to remove that auditor from the list. Um, we are hoping our auditors can work with our schools and if it's uh if it's an issue like the compliance supplement that wasn't released, we do try
050to work with them and say, you know, if we can get your financial reports um and have that information that we can provide um not only to our commissioners but to DOE as well because DOE can use those numbers to start to fill in their reports as well. We've worked with some of our auditors to get those financial reports. It may you know the final audit may be a week or two away. We so we try to exhaust every every available avenue we have working with our auditors. >> One more followup and then this would be my last followup. uh because um instead of like how you said remove the auditor um I believe that if you folks were to really impose some serious consequences on meeting those deadlines then it would avoid the legislature
051having to pass bills to tell you how to do your job. So you folks not doing your job only puts more work on us to have to pass bills to tell you how to do your job and then now we're asking the auditor to do your guys job too. So I think that there's some real serious structure that needs to happen within the department to ensure that you folks are more than capable which I believe of doing the job. But when it comes time to not do your job, then there's there's no consequences for that. So now we have to step in. We have to pass laws to tell you guys how to do your job. Then we got to tell the auditor to do your guys' job. So that's just a point that I
052want to make. Thank you, chair. >> Yeah. Thank you. Um just wanted to since the auditor is not here and I'm not lobbying for him but they since they are being asked to do this uh they do say we have strong reservations about the bill. As section one notes public charter schools are currently required to conduct an annual financial audit. Those audits generally need to be completed by the end of October to be included in Department of Education financial statements and relied upon for purposes of the state of Hawaii annual comprehensive financial report. Many public charter schools do not meet the deadline. However, Department of Education and the commission have and should have the responsibility to enforce the deadline and compel the public charter schools to timely provide the necessary financial information to enable their
053auditors to complete the audits. And I think that's the point that um senator the court had been pointing out. And um they say they do not believe another financial audit conducted by the office of the auditor required by section 5 is meaningful. Um, so you know, so if they're not going to do it and they don't find it meaningful, but yet there are issues, then I think it's it's imperative that you folks recognize some of the stuff and do take some action. >> Understand, chair. We'll make sure we take this to our commissioners as agenda it on one of our public meetings so we can have this discussion and share that information with you. >> Thank you very much. Members, any other questions? >> Yes, Senator Kanani. I think um chair that we should request
054that this body gets a list of um audits where our schools are failing as well as have not been um sent on time. >> We can provide that list is if you're looking at any charter schools that have findings of material weakness if that's what um Vice Chair Kadani you're asking for, we can definitely provide that. We do review the findings and present that to our commissioners. Uh commissioners are then able to [clears throat] if they want to take action um on those findings which can include additional monitoring or again I've mentioned our intervention protocol. Uh we have a notice of concern. That's sort of the first step. The next step would be what we call a notice of deficiency which is essentially a formal notice that um some serious compliance requirement has uh taken
055place. >> I believe we did talk at length in ways and means about this as well. So yeah, >> well I think um for us to be able to get that information would give the senators from the district or legislators from the district an opportunity to reach out to schools to see um is there more help needed? Is it more financial help and not wait till the they go bankrupt or they have to close the school because maybe they don't know that you know there's an opportunity to ask may I'm not saying we can give them additional funding but maybe we are aware of other places that they can turn to for funding or whatever else need >> thank you very much >> thank you >> a little commercial break this is the committee Senate
056committee on education in She's somebody didn't realize it or I failed to state that. Uh so we are moving [laughter] on. >> I should have on Senate Bill 2125 relating to teacher licensing. And this bill amends teacher licensing statutes to remove the three-year employment limit for unlicensed teachers hired on an emergency basis. requires unlicensed emergency hires to demonstrate continuous and verifiable progress toward meeting lensure requirements and strengthens reporting obligations to the board. And we have first up is the Department of Education, Superintendent Hayashi. Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, members of the committee. I'm Tammy Chun, deputy superintendent for the Department of Education. The Department of Education supports this bill. We appreciate Senator DOI's um initiative in bringing this forward. Um and just provide just a little background on emergency hired teachers. Emergency hired teachers are
057hired when a licensed teacher is not available. The emergency hired teachers serve on one-year contracts for up to three years. Um, emergency hired teachers must have a bachelor's degree and when they're in the classroom, they receive support for induction and mentoring that new teachers receive. They receive professional development and they also get an annual evaluation. Emergency hired teachers are an important way to meet the immediate needs for our classrooms and it's a pipeline for our state residents into teaching. The bill extends the number of years that an emergency hire can teach and the department of education is committed to developing the teacher pipeline so that we can develop more of the emergency hire teachers into licensed teachers. Thank you. >> Okay, next up we have Felicia Villa Lobus for teacher standard board. >> Good afternoon
058chair, vice chair, members of the committee. My name is Felicia V Lobos. the executive director of the Hawaii Teacher Standards Board testifying on behalf of the board. [clears throat] The board submitted written testimony in opposition of this bill. The Hawaii Teacher Standards Board respectfully opposes Senate Bill 2125 due to the concerns about its duration and the learning loss and academic gaps experienced by students taught by emergency hires who lack full preparation and credentials. Long-term reliance on emergency permits allows positions to be filled without the credentials, training, and experience necessary to protect instructional quality and student services. Emergency hire permits are intended to address short-term urgent staffing needs when no qualified candidates are immediately available. Extending these permits beyond 3 years fundamentally changes this purpose and it's no longer an emergency. It effectively functions as a
059permanent appointment. While many Mercy hires are hardworking, well-intentioned, well-intentioned, limited preparation can result in less effective instruction, weaker classroom management, and reduced ability to identify and address student learning needs. These concerns are especially significant when that most emergency hires are in the underserved communities. Currently, there are over a thousand emergency hires in Hawaii and a large amount amount of these emergency hires are concentrated in elementary K6 and SMED where students are at critical stages of development. In the elementary grades, foundational skills such as reading, writing, and math are particularly vulnerable. Inadequate instruction can lead to regression in learning loss rather than progress over multiple years. This learning loss can compounds and can have everlasting effects on students academic growth. especially for students with disabilities who require specialized instruction, legal compliance, and consistent, highly trained teachers.
060Research consistently shows that licensed teachers are associated with higher student achievement and stronger long-term academic and social emotional outcomes. >> Can you summarize, please? I just want to say that uh this is going to have long-term consequences because uh the concentrated emergency hires are in elementary and sped and if they're untrained that compounds there's a four to six month learning loss for every time they're they're taught by an uh emergency hire teacher. Thank you. >> I'm sure we'll have questions so please stick around. Yes. Um, Yukio, sorry, Yuko. Uh, cross. Aloha, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, and members of the committee. I'm Yuko Aikross, director of the Executive Office on Early Learning. Thanks to the support of the legislature, the governor, and the lieutenant governor, and our ready keki partners, the number of public prek
061classrooms has grown rapidly over the last several years. Highly qualified EO public prek teachers must have graduated from a state approved teacher education program or SATIP and hold a teaching license in early childhood education. This is a unique set of qualifications for which there had been no significant demand prior to the expansion of the public prek program. As the system adjusts to these new opportunities, some candidates encounter challenges obtaining an initial early childhood education license due to the limited number of approved pathways and the timing of enrollment opportunities for existing programs. EO appreciates that SB 2125 seeks to address current workforce bottlenecks while maintaining the expectation that all educators progress towards full lensure. However, EAL prefers a solution that extends the existing time frame from 3 to 5 years rather than eliminating the time limit
062entirely. We support maintaining a defined time limited structure to ensure that emergency hire permits function as temporary bridges to full lensure not as a parallel or permanent hiring pathway. So, thank you for this opportunity to share our comments on this bill. >> Thank you from HSTA. Aloha, chair, vice chair. Um, my name is Sarah Millen and I'm speaking on behalf of Osui Junior and HSTA. I have the honor this session to be your teacher lobbyist. So, my job is to come speak to you as a practitioner actively in the classroom um about what's important to teachers and educators um and students across the state. So for this piece, what we're looking at is we're all here trying to fight the teacher shortage. And this is a bill that goes ahead and supports that by making
063sure we get people who are passionate about being in those classrooms um completed with their programs and in the classroom. So we believe that this supports fighting the teacher shortage. Um I will also say in my capacity as Leroy chapter president for HSTA, that's 3,000 teachers from Macaha to Pearl City. Um that we have a lot of teachers who are seeking lure, who have issues with getting their license. um this particularly in Hawaiian immersion where it's been harder for people to get their license. At my school, I have two incredible teachers who are fighting to get their license. The kids love them. I watch them teach and it's just it can be tough to get to these programs. I would also say sometimes people may have a baby or something that goes ahead and impacts
064their studies as they're moving forward. And I think this just helps find a way um to fight that shortage. Mahalo. >> Thank you very much. [clears throat] Okay. Um, okay. I don't know if I can say this right. Jonares Lampa. No, not here. Okay. Um, Douglas Ber on Zoom. >> Uh, yes, I'm I'm here. Yes. Um, aloha, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. My name is Doug Berer, and I'm the principal at Lai Highen Elementary School. I'm here today in strong support of Senate Bill 2125. As a school leader in a rural neighbor island community, I see firsthand the serious teacher shortages our schools face. To remain fully staffed, we rely on emergency hires and emergency hires from the J1 visa program. Many of our educators hold advanced degrees, years of experience teaching
065or in the industry and have been award-winning. I can personally attest that our emergency certificate personnel provide effective culturally responsive instruction and critical continuity for students in our rural community, resulting in positive academic and social emotional outcomes. Lenaih Elementary School has filled 19 of its 60 positions with educators holding emergency hire certificates. Without emergency hire certificate certified teachers, LAI students would be facing long-term vacancies and a lack of consistent instruction from a single individual and potentially larger class sizes. At Lai High Elementary School, we take training um emergency certificate and new hires seriously. We provide in-house mentoring, professional development, instructional coaching to help educators who are not fully licensed become effective, confident teachers as they progress towards certification. These teachers are not temporary placeholders. They are essential members of our community. This bill um emphasizes
066sustained progress rather than limitations. This bill allows educators to focus their energy what matters most, supporting students while holding accountability to move steadily toward full lensure. Thank you um for your time. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate you taking the time to be on our Zoom for today. Okay, we've had let's see 33 people send in testimony, three opposed, one with comments, and so we have approximately 25 others that have sent in support. Is there anyone here in this room that would like to speak or I did not call your name? If not, okay. So, we are open to questions. I know there'll be questions. So, why don't we start off with um the DOE and then probably the um teacher standard board. So currently right now we you you said in your testimony that
067um emergency hireers have to have one year I mean have to have a BA degree and then you're normally they're hired for one year but they can extend up to three years. >> Correct. >> Okay. So on that so how many of those actually turn uh end up getting their license? >> Um at this time I don't have that information. We are researching that in the um and we'll have an answer later in session. >> Okay. How long have the board um do DOE has been um doing emergency hires like this? >> I think emergency hires have been for quite a long time. Um I I just wanted to mention the emergency. Yes. So emergency hire might not be the best description for um for the situation. >> When you say long time, give me
068an idea. >> Actually, I'll have to get back to you on that. It's been for at least 5 years. We've researched the data on the number for at least five years. >> So at least five years. And of that um five years, it it's been constant one year and with an extension of five three years >> up to three. And then what happens after the three? >> They can if the teacher has not received a license at that point, then they can no longer be employed. >> Okay? And they can no longer come back and and >> they can no longer come back as an emergency hire. >> Come back as an emergency hire. >> Correct. It's and it's a lifetime. So it's a cumulative. >> Okay. So I would think though after five years
069you would have this data available as to how many are actually becoming getting their license. Right. This requires some um data that's not easy to manage in the system. So we are in the process of pulling that information. Some do receive their license and others decide not to continue. >> Right? But you would know that, right? I mean you would know if they get licensed because then you would take them off of this program. You would put them into the school. So you would know that off hand. If they decide not to continue, you would know that because they would leave, right? So I guess I'm just trying to say how hard is the data to to to get the data. >> So the data is not tracked in a way that's easy was easy
070for us to pull it immediately. So we are getting that data right now. >> Okay. >> That's an important question. We just don't have the answer right now. >> And and I I I [clears throat] you know stay on this this line because again it's like how do we know what the problem is? How do we know that we need to do this five years instead of three years? How do we know maybe we should do it into perpetuity like this bill is asking for unless you know these are things that I think is so important that we know um and maybe three years is not the right amount maybe five is and maybe four is the optimal number right I mean so um yeah I think it's crucial and that you folks are in
071this position to be able to to look at that numbers and then act on it without us having to have a bill Right. >> So, so Senator, we know that teachers reach the end of the 3 years and need to and can no longer be employed. Um, we know that so our request is to extend beyond 3 years whether it's 5 years or as which there's a different vehicle for 5 years. Um, that that would be that would be um helpful and then this bill does not provide a limitation. So I think any moving beyond the three years is important but whether it's five or you know 10 is the magic number it that's not there's no data to um to back up >> at this point we have no data to to do anything
072because you're not giving it to us. Well, what we know is the number of teachers who are at their um third year this year who would be um hang on. >> What's the total number of emergency hires that you have? >> So, there's the there's an emergency hire permit and there are about a thousand teachers this year who are in that case six uh 400 of them have already completed a teacher education program but are in the process of getting their license. the HST um lobbyist mentioned at another hearing that for example she transferred instate and had been licensed elsewhere but needed to start as an emergency hireer to get her paperwork done. Um but there are about 600 who have not completed a teacher education program at the time um and they have not
073yet completed the teacher education program. >> So 1,000 emergency hires out of how many how many teachers? >> A little over 12,000. >> So a little over 12,000. So about 10%. Uh it's about 8%. Yes. >> 8% 10%. Um is any of this having to do with with any obstacles in getting the license? There are obstacles uh in teachers completing their teacher education program. That's where we see the most obstacles. Um sometimes these are people who are newly teaching. They might have not yet decided if they want to pursue teaching long term. Um sometimes the cost is an issue. they're making entry-level teacher salary and trying to pay for the program um teacher education program for credits. Another reason is sometimes people working another job or a life a life situation is happening that makes
074it difficult to complete the program at the same time as as working within the three years. >> Do you folks evaluate these um emergency hires? >> We do. >> In what way? >> They they receive the annual um teacher evaluation that all teachers receive. uh the emergency hired teachers would receive them annually as opposed to our tenure teachers who receive an effective evaluation. They don't receive them as frequently. >> So somebody actually goes into the classroom and observe them for how long? >> Correct. Um I have to check on the duration of the observation but there is a required observation for an evaluation. There is also a mentor teacher who is working with the teacher. So they also observe them and provide coaching. Okay. questions. You know there's a question ultimately >> hold on Senator.
075>> Thank you. So um is there a way that you guys can assess what districts have the most um unlicensed teachers >> and how can you make it easier for them to get license? For instance, rather than them all having to drive to the university or wherever, can there be a school that they congre congregate at to get their license and get their education? Has that been looked at? >> So, um so yes, so we can um provide information about where we have more of our emergency hired teachers on a uh on a county on a complex area basis. The complex area with the largest number of emergency hired teachers is Baldwin Kalik Ken Hako Maui with 179. Um we we do see a lot of issues with shortages and with housing challenges for Maui
076County uh in particular. So we have that information. Um the other is we are um beginning discussions with some of the teacher preparation programs about if if this program uh if this law passed could we restructure how the programs are timed so that it fits better with a teaching schedule uh with a teacher schedule for these particular group of teachers. Does DOE assist these emergency hires in any way to get their license or to overcome some of the obstacles? >> So the the most significant obstacle or the what's required to to complete the teacher license within the uh 3 years is primarily to complete the state approved teacher education program. So they have to earn a they're have a bachelor's degree. So they have to earn their post complete a postbalorate certificate or they need
077to do the master's program and so for different um high need areas there might be programs to assist like grow your own programs for certain but it's uh but it's not across the board for every type of teacher. >> Okay. So DOE itself does not help some of these because I've had a couple of calls on people saying that they did the degrees and so forth but they're having trouble getting their license with with teacher standard board that a lot of technical issues that make them go through the process again and again I don't know if again and again but again um and so that has been so do folks don't assist them in any way. So I I would say that I my the examples that I'm aware of the for example a case
078I know of a principal was advocating for their teacher to get through the process um with the standards board and and and then eventually called me because um so I'd tell you a specific case I do know that the administrators will try to support their teachers in meeting licensing requirements about it. No, I I worked with the school and tried to help the teacher get the evidence that they needed to be or provide guidance to them on how to get the evidence standard board in any way. >> We in that case contacted the teacher standards board. Yes. >> Okay. >> Senator Hashima. >> So at the at the end of the day, the the teachers the the principal has the ability to not rehire the the teacher, right? The emergency hire after that they don't
079feel like they're meeting their needs, right? Correct. And um if there is a teacher in emergency hire position this year, that position will be advertised for next year for a fully licensed teacher. And >> so really it is truly a band-aid. >> Yes, it's a band-aid. And so the if the position is filled by a licensed teacher, the emergency hired teacher wouldn't be hired. And then the next year if it's still vacant, the the principal could choose to renew a contract for an emergency hired teacher. So, so of course you you told me what I already knew which is we have my my district has the highest emergency hires not. So I guess when you take a look at the the data further, you know, is it is it more the rural areas that are
080experiencing this that have less access to, you know, programs essentially? And this is what I've been harping on everybody, right? That there's access issues, right? But but maybe you guys should take a look at what that is because I think if if people in the urban area don't want this something like this, then maybe we just say, okay, this is for the rural areas, right? Because if people want to have this really high standard, that's fine. But we we're you're trying to fight it out on the neighbor islands, right? >> So So um Senator, I would so Baldwin Kiki Hoy Maui 179. Then the next in order would be Campbell Capo, Lehua, Milani, Walua, Kapa, Kauaii, and then Honuka Kohala Kona. And so it really is is outside of the urban core Honolulu, outside of
081urban Honolulu is where we see the need for this. So, um I don't if you extend it, I don't it it doesn't change um the situation for the Honolulu schools, for urban Honolulu schools. They'll just have a smaller number. >> Um >> so, I would I would >> but at the end of the day, this is a band-aid solution, right? I think that that's that we need to underscore that, right? >> It is a band-aid solution. and it's one of it's a tool that we have to make sure that we have um a teacher in the classroom who's receiving support and able to be consistent for the students. >> So what are the reasons that there are such shortages in these areas in Milani? I think it's a housing issue and they are building a
082teacher housing complex but is that the issue because if it is then maybe you know that's what we need to look at for other areas also. I I housing is an issue. Um also we just overall don't have enough licensed teachers. One thing we know is we have a supply side problem. Um we know that teacher education programs around the country have seen radical declines in the number of students who are signed up to be teacher or who are in programs to become teachers. So Hawaii's experiencing the same thing. So we just have a shortage and the rural areas have more of a shortage um like bear the bear more of the shortage. >> Educators who have been teaching teachers to get their degrees, they no longer exist or there's a short supply or they're
083moving out or >> there's there's less um there's less college students or there's less people seeking a teacher um a degree in teaching. paper. Why is that? >> Well, some of it some of it is paid. Some of it is other opportunities that are available. If we looked, you know, a gener generation ago or two generations ago, um we would see that um that we had a a lot of women and people of color in teaching because there was discrimination elsewhere and teaching was a good career was a opportunity. But there's a lot more there's a more variety of opportunities now uh for all to teach in other areas or have other kinds of careers. So that some of it is just that kind of this meta issues. Um some of it is the prestige
084and I think there's a lot of um teaching is a hard job. And so I think when there are there's a lot of uh narrative that people shouldn't be teachers. I think a lot of our students get a message teaching is hard. This is and it's not the best paying job so go do something else. I think those are all things that challenge us. >> What about the fact that you know they don't just teach now? I think you folks always not I mean you but you know everybody sort of just goes over that issue that they're not just teaching anymore. They have to be caretakers. They have to be nurses. They have to, you know, dispense with with with medication. They have to change diapers. They have to do all kinds of stuff now.
085And I know that because I hear that from a lot of the a lot of the people that went into teaching. It's not like before. They they they taught 100% of the time. They taught. And now that that's not the only that's not the only reason. And then the parents are no longer I shouldn't say this because I know I got calls about it, but they're not as involved. They drop the children off to school and expect the school to correct all of the problems that is going on with the child. And when they don't do it, then they get really angry with the teachers and with with the schools because yeah, people believing that, you know, that they should be able to drop the child off at two years old and then pick them
086up at senior year, right? Pretty much. So the demands on school and expectations of school are different today and a lot our our communities are different. Um and especially postco we're seeing a lot of different needs in schools and so to help our students to be successful in uh the learning goals that we have for them. Schools have done a lot more um >> yeah but have crippled have we crippled our families because of that? Have we crippled them to thinking that the school is the panacea and the more problems they are the more that we as government and we want to you know help everybody have taken on these burdens which then doesn't solve the problem but just keeps make growing it bigger because if you look at every year Bill you know we
087used to take the take them at at four years old for preschool now three years old and then it's two years old I've had calls come in and so it's pretty much like you know after you have the baby just drop the kid off And but you know but that's been the kind of um attitude I think that is prevalent now and you know the responsibilities for the family has really shrunk in that sense. Um but have we done too much to enable that kind of culture? Senator, I think it's a question for the community and the legislature as a whole body about what our expectations are of the Department of Education and I think it's a question worth asking. But I >> Yes. >> But the Department of Education being that this is your
088this is your you know this is just one part of all the problems in in our state. you folks are on education to be the leaders to say hey wait a minute enough is enough or stop or this is the cause why you know people don't want to go into education why students aren't pursuing it they see what the teachers are going through I mean there's got to be not just so okay we'll do this bill oh okay yeah we we'll take on more yeah you know we we'll we'll we'll hire more psychologists yeah let's you know and you guys embrace all of this I mean that's been my my sense in these hearings Yeah. And I think maybe we can ask uh the board of education to send a report to us to um
089give us a clue or give us a heads up on why you know people are not going into teaching. What could we do or try to do to enhance it so that we can recruit more teachers? >> We So thank you Senator. We also have the teacher education coordinating committee which is created by statute and it brings together all the teacher preparation programs together with department of education and um I think that is something we can bring up with them >> we can we can share a report that they provided and then see whether or not we should um further ask them to >> um and elaborate on that. But I I think that these groups, as worthy as they are, see focusing on the same thing, pay, housing, right? Lack of the path of
090housing, um some teaching conditions, but not really get getting down to the nitty-gritty. What is it? Why isn't our students interested in teaching? I mean, so besides because you know, sometimes pay is not just the pay. My sister said she worked as a special needs teacher in the mainland and she said it's not the necessarily the pay, it's everything else, you know, dealing with dealing with the parents, dealing with some of the disruption in the classroom and and feeling like we don't have the control. I mean, there's a lot of stuff, right? And I think that that's what we're missing because we're too focused on the pay and the housing. But I also think it's because parents expect teachers to be parents and and you know >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. So I I think
091it's you know on both sides the issue but I'm not sure how >> how we handle it, how we deal with it, what >> we can do put in place to, >> you know, help the schools and the teachers to handle these issues with students. Well, these students grow up to be parents who then have kids that have in classrooms. It's a cycle that goes on. Okay, Senator, we've been waiting patiently. >> Thank you. Uh, it's hard because you don't really have any numbers, right? So I feel like our conversations are just kind of talk story sessions. But um do you have any way to quantify if extending this two more years would be able to retain the teachers to go have them go through the process? Is this the solution or one of one
092of >> So this is one solution. I I guess one thing I want to say that's important is that the question is what's the alternative? So if it if we if the emergency hired teacher reaches the end of 3 years and there's a vacancy next year in the position they were in, what happens? What happens is either we hire a new emergency hire teacher or we hire a substitute, a day-to-day substitute. And those are not in in my opinion, those are not better choices than the teacher who's been evaluated, received training. Um, and to give that teacher a couple more years to complete their teacher license or to complete their educator preparation program would be helpful. Um I would have to put I have to open a different spreadsheet to give you the information but
093there are um maybe 150 to 200 teachers who are in the third year of their emergency hire this year. So those would that would be the group that would be eligible to continue for two more years to complete their license. Um, we are in the process of running a survey with our emergency hired teachers and it's still in process, but I looked at the data that we received so far and um, and hang on, I have it right here. Um, it's a data received so far and 50% of the emergency hired teachers said that they would be more likely to complete their teacher license if they had additional time. Do you have any data of the teachers that have completed the licensing program but then had just pulled out because you had mentioned some of
094that too right that people were going through the licensing process but then they decided that they didn't want to move forward that data I don't have I have lots of other data just that particular one we're still um having to analyze that data >> thank you chair >> I can follow up so when you hire ire an emergency then they normally then they start the process in order to get their credentials whatever necessary and then their license or some of them already have been starting the process >> there's some of them could have started in the process >> okay but but say for one so we hire you hire them today and they what is the normal process then they take they start does it take a while like they have to wait till the
095next class or how does that work? >> Correct. So, uh if a we have an emergency hired teacher who has not yet started a teacher preparation program, >> teacher preparation, >> they would have to apply for it and then begin coursework. So, once they've already started in school in August, it's too late to apply for the program um for that school year. So, they would have to apply for the program during that school year and then begin the process. >> Okay. So, so say I'm I want to be I want to be a teacher. So, this is February and I come to you and you hire me. So, to order to start teachers prep, I have to apply by when? >> So, it would depend on the particular program because they could apply for a
096variety of different programs that are approved by standards board. But on a average or general basis on a >> so for say uh Manoa you would need to apply for fall um admission and fall I'd have to look up when fall admission for graduate um programs are but for undergraduate programs you would have had to apply by March >> okay >> for the fall fall. it does take for a while. So, so I apply and I get accepted in there. So, the program is 3 years. >> So, a postbakalarat program I believe is one year, but I would have to confirm that information. And then a master's program would take longer. >> Okay. So, it could technically take me two years from the time I get hired to get my teachers prep >> if you
097were on the most um ex Yeah. Accelerated path. my teachers prep. How long between that and getting getting license? >> Then you need to apply for the your license at the standards board and I >> I would need defer to the standards board on that process. >> How long it takes? I'm just trying to understand the three-year process right now. So if it takes almost two years to even get the teachers prep then maybe maybe an extension is is needed because then I don't know depending on how long it takes to get a license then maybe two years is not the optimum number. But >> yes we we definitely have anecdotal stories um about good people who are doing well in the classroom but for different reasons run out of time to complete their program.
098And do they well we wouldn't know this but whether they when they end their they still continue and then do come back once they get the license >> um that will come with the data that we're analyzing. >> Okay thank you more. Okay thank you. >> Yeah teacher standard please. >> Yes. >> Thanks for being here. So, you know, I I'm reading your testimony and it's like deja vu again from last year >> that you're against, you know, trying to help the DOE and trying to figure out their shortage. So, I'd like to ask you, what did you do over this last year to help the DOE to bring down their shortage? Because I'm reviewing some documents and I'm very alarmed at what you have done over this last year. So, I think you're putting
099more barriers up than helping to be solutionsoriented. >> Perfect. Thank you for your question. So um in working with the TECCC committee and you've you've had uh De Marada here to talk about that the Hawaii Teacher Standards Board started the seed of educators rising the CTE TAP pathway from building from high school all the way to hopefully a registered apprenticeship program because there is that narrative >> okay well that that hasn't really come to fruition over this past year. So I'm talking about what did you have done over this past year because what I'm looking at it right you you I didn't you guys put a moratorium on new teacher pathway programs coming into the state. >> Yeah. So it has come to fruition actually on Friday they're having their educators rising competition. >> Okay.
100So how many how many did you get through that? >> Um 300 uh student teachers or teacher high school students are looking into becoming teachers >> looking into Okay. But not enter. So have they entered the program? >> Um I'm not sure. We'll find out this year because they're going to hopefully the winners are going to a national competition in Oregon and then from there so it's juniors and seniors. So this Friday is their in-person competition which is the first in our state. Um to ask about the moratorium the moratorium is only for outside institutions for our in instate institutions which we are working with. >> That's right. So so why why aren't we trying to build up as many pathways as possible to try and get people to help those 300 that want to
101do something? >> Yes. So we are building that out. So, so but why did you put a moratorum in place then? >> The So, if I can explain the moratorum is for the outside institutions. So, if we have 14 educator preparation programs right now that are building out programs so there's no moratorium on our instate. So, if uh Manoa, HPU, BYU want to submit more programs which some of them are, those are going through the review process right now. to answer the question about enrollment. Um I know. >> Right. So, so but but why did you put a moratorum in place then? If if if if when you here talk to the TECC and understand what they're trying to do. They're talking about we're trying to use every single institution out there, but then you're
102putting a moratorium in place. Doesn't make sense to me. >> Correct. Because again, there's an NC SAH federal law as well out there that the board is in compliance with. So, they have to go through an entire review process. >> Why why a moratorum? >> It's up in December. So we can work on our instate programs currently to build out those programs. >> But why why haven't you been doing that over this this past period of time to get into compliance? Why moratorium? >> Oh, excuse me. Oh, uh West Aahu has put out programs. Mono has put out many programs. >> I'm talking about the moratorum. Why did you put on moratorum? >> I didn't put it out. The board put it out. But the the reason why >> So I'm asking you why did
103the board put that out? If we believe that we want to have more teacher training programs, >> I I just wanted to clarify that there are more teacher programs that are in state from the 14 that are growing. >> You put a moratorium in place. That's the question. >> Go ahead. Why? >> The moratorium is up because we found that there's four educator preparation programs approved by our board that were not in compliance. We had one that went bankrupt that let teacher candidates just hang. >> That's right. We saw that in TECC report. >> Yeah. And then we had another one that was uh doing some unity things with not giving the right recommendations content area. We actually had issues with another state no longer taking our license for reciprocity. We had another one not
104guiding their candidates correctly and giving them wrong advice which extended their program. And then we had another one that was in compliance with IDA federal law. >> So So why were they at that point though? Weren't you guys supposed to be overseeing that? >> Correct. So I started 5 years ago and these programs were all approved prior to that. When we found these things were happening then the board decided maybe we should reook at our programs but didn't stop the programs from instate to from developing more programs. >> I understand that. >> So the mortorium was up to re-evaluate like you said so it doesn't continue to happen because it happened four different occasions with four different preparations. >> But isn't that a failure of your oversight powers and why did you guys let that
105happen? >> Um it was not a failure and oversight problem. We've [music] we've had two different executive directors prior to me and so when we were finding this out we were getting phone calls and we actually found it out when they are doing their accreditation process as well. Accreditation happens every seven years and as a state entity we sit on these accreditation and we're finding that things weren't lining up and then we were started getting complaints and so that's when we had to investigate and we did immediately investigate. >> Okay. So, so when you read the TECC program, the the report that we just had info briefing on the the the vacancies was because of the the DOE's aggressive hiring practices, right? But it seems to me that the standards board is not part of
106that, you know, process of trying to figure out how do we retain all these people that we're bringing on board. That's my problem with what the HTSB position is is what are you actually what are you trying to do to help them keep all these people that they bring on board? What essentially what what we it seems like is once you get to year three, you don't care. You know, you're you're you're at the point where the standard needs to be really high, which is great. That's great that you want the standard to be high, but I think at a certain point, we have to be practical because we'd rather have to me when when when I'm in a district where I have the most emergency hires, I would rather have someone in the in
107the classroom that's, you know, that the principal's overseeing, right? They they should be monitoring to making sure that these teachers are doing well for our students and and if we have an administrative burden because you guys can't figure out how to create additional pathways, that's where I have a problem. And over the last year, I have not seen anything. You guys have not come and seeing us to talk about what your solutions were because I did ask you last year and but nothing. It's been silenced and then we're here again, right? And then you're now again still opposed to this kind of build for us to retain all these people that were onboarding. That's my problem with the standards board. >> So the teacher shortage has been going on for three decades, 30 years. The
108emergency hire permit, it was asked earlier how long has been in place. It's actually been in place prior to the standards board being a standards board. It was a Department of Education that was doing emergency hire permits. So, this is a long-standing problem. Uh, we are happy. >> We know it's a long-standing problem. We're trying to figure we're trying to be solutionsoriented, right? But I don't in your testimony, I did not see what the that solution should be to try and figure out how we're going to make this work. How do we get all of these teachers, you know, the thousand that we're trying to bring on, how do we figure out how do we utilize them in the best way and get them certified? That's what I did not see and that's what we
109asked last year but it's been silenced from you. >> I can provide a report. I can meet with you. Yeah. I didn't know that you wanted a report but I can do a briefing. >> Wasn't that the whole question last year that I brought up? >> The last year was the J1 visa situation. >> That's right. It was a band-aid situation which we still have not fixed. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, we're going to bring all of them in. They're going to teach and then after year three they're going to be gone. But yet we put in every single obstacle in front of them. Testing is not an obstacle for professions. >> Did you read the testimony here? It people are paying over $1,000 to get their practice and they have to fly to Aahu
110in many times. So, we're not trying to figure out an alternate pathway for them. All I'm asking for is solutions. >> Oh, yeah. So, right now ETSs practice is three and free. So, they can take it three times and it's free after that. We've understand that the Department of Education is paying or reimbursing for practice exams. Um, they're also helping with tutorials or tutoring for practice exams. So, um, we're happy again to still continue to partner with DOE, the educator preparation programs. We do have EPS that have ongoing enrollment. So, if I wanted to be a teacher today, I could actually enroll tomorrow. It's called open enrollment. It's a postback pro uh program that leads to about 18 months. Um, unless they want to go through another program that can take two years with a
111master's degree. So, there are programs out there where I can enroll if I wanted to be a teacher. Um, but like DS Chan said, there are things that come up. We do have a suspension of the rules if someone has we've had medical concerns come up or they had to take care of their elderly parents that they had to stop their program. They can ask for a suspension of the rules and and get issued another emergency hire permit. So four and we only count the time in which they are actually using the permit. So they have to take a break from school uh employment to do something else. We don't calculate that time. So that is actually longer than 3 years. >> And I get it. But what what I'm asking for is if you
112don't like this bill, what else are you doing to to to make to create a solution so that we can take advantage of this personnel? And I have not heard that from you. All I'm hearing is excuses of what the program is currently, which we understand what the currently is pro currently is. Right. >> Yeah. The Hawaii Teacher Stain Corp is not working on band-aids. We're looking looking at long term, >> but we are we're in a crisis situation. And when you talk about long term, we can't get to the long term if we can't figure out the short term. >> Yeah. We've been in a crisis for 30 years. So I I think working with the >> department you can say that but what when when we're trying to figure out how to get
113things done today right you have not come to the table with really good solutions >> I can I can provide a list of solutions >> I would love to see them because I have not seen them for a year. >> Yeah I'm happy to provide that. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. >> Um yes >> can you so how long does it take to get licensed once somebody has completed in the future? So if they complete an instate program that's approved by our board, we get the recommendation from the educator preparation program, they have up to six weeks to provide that to our agency because they need to verify grades and all those other things they do at the institution level. Some institutions can have a quick turnaround. As soon as they apply and that recommendation
114comes in, they're licensed. So it could take two days, one day, a week. It depends on the uh application when they actually hit submit. It's a quick turnaround. We give priority to our instate graduates. So once that list comes up from an educator preparation program that they have a list of recommended candidates, our uh licensing specialists start licensing them immediately. >> So how long? >> Uh I want to say everything in maybe two days because it depends on how big the numbers are. Like uh Manoa has two to 300 that takes a couple of days to get them all licensed. Um if it's smaller batches then within the day. So if I graduate today and I put in my application today, I could get it in. >> We have to wait for the recommendation of
115the EP. So the educator preparation program there on their side, they have to verify their grades and there's no outstanding balances and and then they submit the recommendation to us. So once we get that recommendation in, we've had people have pending applications in waiting for the recommendation to come in from the EP and as soon as that happens, our licensing specialist process Okay. Um, a couple of things. Okay. Yeah. So, I I received this one email and [clears throat] he said, "I followed the guidance that was valid at the time. Completed my student teaching info. I've since passed the practice exam. However, HTB HTSB is now asserting that because my requirement were incomplete, out of order. My student teaching in completed four years ago is invalid and must be repeated. this requirement is being imposed
116even though I have taught science for the past four years in a title one public school first as an emergency hire and now as a long-term substitute. So, you know, these are just an example of some of the complaints that there's a lot of technical issues that is going on with the teacher standard board and and just putting obstacles in in people who >> are capable of teaching and is not able to get their license. So that um practice exams uh comes from the educator preparation program side. When they go before the board for approval, they can say they're going to get all their credits, their content, and coursework or they're going to do coursework and we're requiring them to take a test. The requirements come from the educator preparation program. So the educator preparation
117program is the one that guides them all the way till they get recommendations. So they're making sure they're meeting all requirements. in this instance. Unfortunately, the A did not guide him correctly and so they um and not to go too into depth with that because that was in executive session um the board did look at it and gave a solution. Um so again it's about guidance of our educator preparation programs which leads to that moratorium again are all our EPS understanding the process. Okay, process is one thing. Okay, and I understand we need to have a process, but sometimes you got to go beyond the process and said, "Okay, fine. You you got the wrong guidance, but you know what? You've been teaching, you're a good teacher, whatever. You have credentials, then you know, again,
118it seems like it's too stringent as to how how some of these these um processes are being applied and then being, you know, and I'm not saying that's the only problem, but that might be one of the small problems that you folks can maybe >> Yeah. and the board addressed that uh quickly and gave a solution. So that that individual has a solution um for their for their concerns or issues, >> but I don't know what that solution might be. It could mean another 6 months could be I don't know what impositions were placed on this individual and I will find out. Yeah. Um but again, you know, these are areas that I mean >> anything short of letting them go in and and start teaching to me is a tra tragedy >> um for
119that. So on the moratorum >> there are situations where outside institutions have programs and good good programs that it is a lot more cost effective and affordable and by your moratorum you've kept those those institutions out >> it'll be up in December while we're fixing our insight >> we've lost we've lost a whole year of having these these people who have gone through their programs not being recognized because you folks have had this moratorum have not accepted the >> um these individuals can also go because of that Sarah federal law they can also go to that state and be issued a license as well and use >> reciprocity they're local people online correct and they went there because one the university might not offer it and two they were too expensive you know double the
120price here unfortunately so we're able to get get on another university and yet they applied and couldn't get in because you folks had a moratorum and to me it, you know, I don't know why you couldn't do it on a case- by case basis because it doesn't stop you from making exceptions. >> Um, so again, uh, >> we're talking 50 students at a time. >> No one has applied since the moratorum. Uh, so again, we've we've we've [clears throat] encouraged them to apply. >> They didn't apply because they were told there was a moratorum and that they weren't recognized. this institution was not recognized. >> We we told each EP that is from the uh continent if they wanted to start the process because once they apply it's not automatic overnight, it takes a couple
121of years to get approved because they have to go be vetted, make sure they're nationally accredited. So we we've actually encouraged uh EPS to start getting on top of that process now so when it opens up then they have their application ready to go. >> Felicia, people from HCA has talked to you to resolve this issue correct without being resolved. >> Correct. Well, we gave them options. And again, >> but the options that you gave them were were not were not satisfactory or did not meet what was needed. And again, these were these were licensed or people that need to get the license in order to fill some of these gaps or or in the counselor areas and so forth that we're really lacking. >> Yeah. And we try to push them towards our instate
122counseling programs because they're not full. >> Yeah. But they're expensive. >> They cost double the price. Do you know that? >> Oh, yeah. because Shamanad is a private one and uh Manoa started theirs. I'm not sure what deal that Haido has with uh Manoa because I know there are some scholarships grants similar with Shamanad as well. >> Again, you're getting the whole point of the matter is there are options out there that is very limited. 100% I agree with you to our students and you folks are are an obstacle at this point in in that and those are the concerns that we have and I hope that you hear the concerns. these bills then are going to be continually pushed and you're going to continue to come and oppose that and that's not going to
123help us solve the problem. >> I agree. I agree. >> Else okay. [cough] [clears throat] >> Okay, we're getting there. Okay. Uh, Senate Bill 2091, relating to school buses establishes multiple Department of Education programs to address the statewide shortage of school bus drivers, including a recruitment grant program, recruitment special fund, a repayment signing bonus program, and a school bus driver outreach and pathway program. Requires detailed quarterly report to the legislature appropriate funds to support these initiatives. Maybe we should also have a recruitment grant program for teachers as well as bus drivers. Um being having said that let's see attorney general's office. >> I know you're not an so can you identify yourself? Oh the other. [laughter] Okay. Good afternoon. >> Good afternoon, >> Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, members, and Horuchi from the Department of
124the Attorney General. Um, as we noted in our testimony, um, with regard to the grant program, in our testimony, we suggested some standards that could be inserted into the bill that would address the potential constitutional um, issue. Also, with regard to the grant program and the signing bonuses, we've suggested some language that would address the um potential need for repayment of both of those items. And we've also addressed some um typographical errors in the bill. Thank you. I'll be available for questions. >> Thank you very much. >> Uh Dry. >> Hi, Dry. >> Chair, vice chair, committee members. Dane Chupar is executive director for the Hawaii State Council on Developmental Disabilities. And we um are in strong support of this measure and would like to stand on our written testimony emphasizing that um individuals with
125disabilities, they really rely on the sped bus to get to and from school. And when there's a shortage, that bus takes the least amount of children, so kiddos to school. So typically that's the bus driver that will not be there. and they'll take um that bus driver to drive the larger buses to bring more school kids to school, which makes sense, but um it does um hamper our individuals from getting um sped students from getting the education they desire and need. And there's no other alternatives. So, we really are a strong advocate for this bill to be passed. Thank you so much. >> Have a quick question. And I know we're not asking till the end, but does the handicap handicam um buses take students to school at all? >> Not children because of the
126age. >> Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. >> Okay. Kayashi. [clears throat] >> Hello, Chair Kim, Vice Chair Kedani, members of the committee. Shantima, assistant superintendent reporting for the Department of Education. The department stands on its written testimony which provides comments on this measure and we stand by for questions. >> Okay. When you say comments, can you specifically tell us what they might be as far as in support or concerns? >> Um >> cuz you got to remember people watching they have no idea what you're standing on. Um, so in our testimony, the Department of Education appreciates the opportunity to provide these comments. Proposing a range of state administered initiatives to address the statewide school bus driver shortage. Although >> part can you just get to what the initial concerns are? >> Okay. Um the issues
127that we have are why while we support financial incentives for bus drivers, it's um being that our our bus drivers are private contractors, it's um giving financial incentives to private contractors. That's the that's the crux of our issue. >> Thank you very >> um Michelle Gimba in support. Uh Tom Yamachica from the tax foundation. Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair Tom Yamamaica from Tax Foundation of Hawaii. Um, our primary concern is with the special fund. Um, we we don't think that it's necessary and uh this is kind of going to be a you know whether the DOE contracts with a a private contractor or employees these individuals directly, it seems to be a core function of DOE and doesn't justify a special fund. That's our concern. >> Okay. Thank you very much, Tom. See else? Okay,
128there is a number of others that have sign not signed up but have sent in testimony. Anyone here wishing to testify on this measure? If not, questions members. >> Question. >> Yes. >> Court who approved? Okay. >> Sean, >> so sorry. Uh what was your title again? >> Assistant superintendent for office of campus operations and support. New office. Oh boy. Okay. Oh, you guys like doing that? >> Have to remember that, [laughter] too. >> Creating new offices. So, uh, a part of your testimony shared a few things, but, um, what I kind of really want to highlight is the statement that you had kind of just made about, you know, not really wanting to release funds to contracts. Yet, DOE has millions upon millions of dollars being spent to contracts. So, do you believe that
129that's a contradictory statement saying you don't want to give money to contracts to help kids to go to school, but you're fine with giving contracts for engineers, architects, so on and so forth? So, do you not think that getting our kids to school is a priority enough to have it be contracted to a private firm? >> So, we are contracting our bus services right now. And I think the issue with the I think we agree with the intent of the bill which is to give financial incentives to bus drivers to recruit and retain them. Um we agree that I think we feel that that is the highest lever to recruit and retain bus drivers. The issue is that we'd be with the bill we'd be putting more money to the private contractors. And while we
130do agree it is a worthwhile investment, I think we're trying to be fiscally responsible with this also. So currently with the contracts, the bus companies already have the mechanism to do that themselves and looking at um I know we don't want to continue more of the same and we want to do things differently to result in an impact. So just to share um what has happened differently that has result resulted in a positive increase recently is over the past six years there's been a steady decline of bus drivers. We've we've lost about 230 bus drivers over six years. Recently what the bus companies did to their credit um and we've had many discussions with them also they've implemented financial incentives for their drivers. So they've given they do paid training for them. they give signing
131bonus, they guarantee them x amount of hours. So because they've implemented that, it's shifted to an upward trajectory just in this past year. So like from last year to this year, we've increased by 69 drivers. So the financial incentives has produced an increase. I think the issue we have is just us giving money to the contract because they already have the capability to do that. So we don't want to double dip in that. >> Right. So, um, so do you have the staff and the transportation to restore all of the buses that was cancelled, >> the bus routes that were canceled? >> Do we have the drivers? >> Yeah. Do you have the staff and do you have the transportation? So, if your argument is we don't want to pay the contractors where again, it's
132very contradictory. You guys are famous for giving out contracts, millions upon millions of dollars. uh but to not want to do and to start being fiscally responsible now I think you're late to the party um because if there is anything I think that you should prioritize it's getting our kids to school so let's say we take out the private company element altogether do you guys have the staff and buses to get our kids to school >> so bus drivers are not ours but you're just looking at the number of drivers the private contracted drivers >> so currently I'll give you the the figures for that and we'll compare it to last year. So we are short drivers right now. We are short 125 drivers and just to clarify like our contracts asked for x amount
133of drivers that doesn't equal the amount of routes that we asked for. So like for the the drivers we asked for um there's a is 410 drivers and that's to run 340 routes. And the reason why it's different is we ask for more drivers than routes because drivers call in sick. So we want the bench that when somebody's out doesn't disrupt the routes and we can have them come in. So right now we are short um 125 drivers which we're not happy being there and we're trying hard to recoup that. Um and as far as routes we're short uh 35 routes right now statewide. So just to show the difference of what the impact of the financial incentives that the bus companies have done from last year to this year. Last year we were short
134172 drivers. This year we're short 125 drivers. So clearly not there yet, but it has increased significantly. Now the routes that have been restored, last year we're the beginning of last year we're short 141 routes. This year we're short 35. So, still not acceptable to be short 35 routes, but it has uh resulted in an increase. So, we're hoping that uh the financial incentives that are in place are going to continue to positively. >> So, would you say that the cancelled bus rates has contributed to the absentee rate? >> I don't have any data to show for that, but we we want to have these routes to support attendance. Well, I I think I can safely say that it has contributed to the absenteeism, at least on my side, uh where we're in a very
135rural area. So, um the city buses don't come, you know, the deep parts of Paka Road or Hakimo Road or real up far deep in where kids have to walk out just to be on a main um strip just to catch the city bus. uh which in fact since the buses were cancelled and DOE has put money towards uh school um excuse me bus passes bus passes uh that financial burden has increased right so now you folks are spending more money giving bus passes to the students since the as opposed to paying for the bus routes >> so fortunately we're not spending more money because the for the contractors we only pay them if the routes are So the routes that are not active right now, we're not paying them for that. So we have
136the money. We'd rather be paying for the route active routes, but it's not like we're paying for routes that are not being run. So the money that we're saving from the inactive routes is going to the city bus passes. >> Okay. So when you say you are not, are you speaking for the department as a whole or just your division >> for student transportation? >> Okay. So I need somebody from DOE cuz I'm talking about the Yeah. But so are you folks spending more money purchasing bus passes? >> It's not even close. So like a bus pass for one student for a year is about $300. Um for a school bus for a student is about $1,200 for a year. >> So we are we are saving money, but we still we're still trying to
137restore the school bus routes. >> I hate to rush everybody, but we do have a timeline, but go ahead. Yes. Well, I I I guess Sean, maybe maybe explain what you guys are doing to help, you know, so so so you're what you're saying is it's built into the contract already for the recruitment strategies for the private companies then, >> correct? >> So they they should have ample amount of money. So So where do you think the breakdown is with on the CDL side then? Where is it? Is it they're not paying enough or is there a pipeline shortage? Like have we identified what that breakdown is that why we still aren't at that target number yet? because at some point it's either going to be pay or it's too hard to get a CDL,
138right? >> I think it's more pay. >> Yeah. >> And it is a nationwide shortage as far as the uh the vehicle to obtain your CDL license. So, there's different routes to do that. I think the most feasible one for people who are interested is to go through the bus companies. So, bus companies, >> they're interested in they're vested in hiring more drivers also because they're not getting paid for the routes that are inactive. So they're they're totally vested in this too. So what they're doing is if you have a driver's license and I mean they have their interview process, they're hiring them, putting them through paid training themselves, um and then giving them a signing bonus on top of that. So um the other route is to go through the community colleges and we've
139uh reached out to Lero Community College. So they have a program right now u but that one is kind of on your own and then when they go through that program there's no guarantee they're going to be a school bus driver they might go be a truck driver right so >> they're better route is to go through the bus contractor because now they have a captive audience and they can have their things in place to make them commit to all these yeah free to get paid while they've been trained right >> yeah thank you chair I know we have time constraint so move on >> yeah what does the bus driver make do you Um, >> pretty good now. I mean, >> it's pretty good now. >> Good. >> I want to say it's 30
140an hour. >> 30 an hour. >> Yeah. And the signing bonus is about, depending on company, it's about a,000 or 3,000. And they're guaranteed like x amount of hours, too. >> Okay. Thank you. I know we're going to have more. We have a couple other buses on the on um going to be on agenda in the future. So, this issue is Yeah. >> Yeah. resolved. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, with that, we're going to move on to the last item, uh, student transportation, Senate Bill 2395. Um, hold on. This bill is about student bus fair rate system, including free bus passes for students whose household qualify for free or reduced price lunch. And so, with that, um, I know we heard some of the bus issues already on free bus passes. We have again,
141Attorney General and Horuchi, followed by Keith Yashi, followed by Osaturi. >> Good afternoon, an Hichi from the AG's office. Um, just to um um clarify because the bill refers to both a free bus pass or free bus passes if that's con that could be construed as including free municipal bus passes in addition to free school bus passes. So to avoid any potential misinterpretation um we suggested where the word school could be inserted throughout the bill just to clarify that this is about school bus passes not municipal ones. Thank you. >> Thank you chair, vice chair, members of the committee. Shantimo, assistant superintendent testify on behalf of the department of education. The department stands on it written testimony which provides comments on this measure. Um, our big issues with this bill is that uh, one to
142to make it easier for students to apply for the free school bus through their um, free and reduced lunch. We're not able to share that info even if it's within different uh, department agencies. >> But you're already giving free bus passes. >> We do have free bus passes. They just have to fill out a separate. >> So, is that for everybody or just those people who can't get get a bus route? >> Everybody and and but it's everybody can apply, but it's screened as far as if they're eligible because they have to for elementary they have to be outside of a mile. Secondary is a mile and a half. >> I see. Okay. >> Thank you. Oati. >> Aloha chair and vice chair. Sarah Mill on behalf of HSTA and Osatouille Jr. Um, a bus
143pass is freedom to our westside kids. So, I teach at Alma Intermediate at Nova Beach, um, where a lot of my students do have free or reduced lunch and what the bus pass allows them, and I've helped kids figure out the bus schedule, how to get to cool things. So, kids have come to see art at Capita Modern, kids have come to see music at the Wiki Shell. Um, also, here's the thing, we want our teenagers to be independent, and a bus pass allows that independence. It's so important to develop those skills. And also, like adults get tired of their teenagers, too. So it gives get kids out of the house um and go socialize in different spaces. Um also really important to me is that the bus pass would allow kids to get to
144work and internships. So a lot of those resources want to do I want my kids interning in this building for your your offices and for that to happen for them to get to Eva Beach they're going to need to have the bus to do that. So please support this measure. >> Okay. But if it's just school school bus school bus passes does it allow them to >> Oh this is just the school. Okay. Well, I mean, >> but in terms of what they can do with the school, but I mean a lot of my kids, I would just say to rely on the school bus pass to get to school. So, for instance, um Koy Point, it's been really tough for those kids to get to school on time with the bus shortages. They've been
145>> they can get buses. >> The bus passes, but yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. [clears throat] Anyone else wishing to testify in this measure? If not, members questions. >> Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to go back to teacher standard board. Um Felicia, if you could come forward. Um, I just got a response that the the issue we're talking about that you said there was a resolution. Correct. It says here was told that she could not get her license because the Hawaii standard board said she had to do student teaching again. She's currently teaching and her principal uh wrote a a recommendation. So, yeah. So, why would she have to do student teaching when she is currently teaching and the principal wrote a letter of support? >> Yeah. So there's clinical hours you have
146to do after passing your content knowledge. >> She did it student teaching. >> She didn't pass her content knowledge at the same at the time in which she was completing her student teaching. So um again this will go to the board. It's actually already at the chair's uh notification on this. So the chair >> why do you guys make it so hard for these people? She's already teaching. She's already in the classroom. She's already getting a uh principles and then she did her teaching teach student teaching already. So now there's this technical issue that is keeping her and I don't know how many of these kinds of issues are out there but it's really acceptable. >> I can have the board reook at the rules because again it's a part of the rules. It's not
147something >> change the rules and we got to do it. Come on. I mean we have a shortage everywhere. >> Correct. Correct. >> So be part of the solution and not part of the problem. >> I will relay your message to the board. Thank you. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Okay. Okay, with that members if there are no other other business we are ajour one. Okay, members, we are in decision making starting with uh do you have the voting sheets? Yeah, [clears throat] vice chair. Uh Senate Bill 2024 relating to charter school facilities. Uh this is a pilot project and it will go before ways and means members. So if there are other issues that need to be um resolved, we can do it at that point especially on the money issue. Uh there is
148some technical and non-substantive amendments for clarity and consistency. Uh and so the recommendation is to pass with amendments. Any discussion on this hearing? Not vice chair for the vote for Senate bill 2024. Recommendation is to pass with amendments. >> Chair votes I. Vice chair votes I. Senator excused. Senator Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Senator. Measures adopted. >> Thank you. uh Senate Bill 2163 relating to public charter schools and this is the for the audits. Now, based on the auditor's testimony and what else we've heard here, I'm going to defer this measure and put the onus on the charter school to make sure that that you um heed to the that they heed to the deadlines and that you folks make whatever changes to to make so that you don't have to go through another audit in
149your best interest and everybody else's best interest. Okay. So, deferred indefinitely. Uh for Senate Bill 2125, this is uh relating to teacher licensing. Uh removes the three-year employment limit for unlicensed teachers. Uh members, you know, I've hear both sides of the argument. We want licensed teachers teaching our students, but at the same time, what is the alternative? The alternative is having no teacher in the classroom. That is also not acceptable. What happens in the rural areas? Um, and so I'd like to recommend at this point because the concerns about being this being into perpetuity that we amend it to say five years. I know there's another bill out there and put a fiveyear on that. But at the same time also in the committee report, we'd like to talk about the obstacles that uh facing
150some of this licensing and that it is not intended to be a long-term solution. Um but certainly it seems as though it takes anywhere from 2 to 3 years already to if everything goes right to be able to be at that licensing point and yet there there are other obstacles. So I think that you know five years may be uh a reasonable number at this point in time. We don't have all the data. Hopefully we'll get some data by the time it gets to ways and means. Um and um so any discussion? Hearing no discussion. Uh vice chair recommendation is to pass with amendments. >> Senate bill 2125 to pass with amendments. Chair Makim >> I. >> Vice chair votes I. Senator Fukun the excuse. Senator Hashimoto. >> Hi. >> Senator Dorti. >> Measures adopted.
151Madam >> thank you for Senate Bill 2091. I think this measure needs a lot more discussion. this um grant program, the concerns around that about bonuses and so forth really needs to be um um vetted better. And so I'm going to recommend we defer this measure. We have other bus bills coming up and we can always um take out measures from here and include it into the upcoming bills. So um deferred and then for Senate Bill 2395, I also recommend that we defer it at this time. The DOE is in fact giving out school buses and then if we find that is not adequate then we can um revive this measure. Any recommend any discussion? Hearing none, we are