001Good afternoon. Welcome to the Committee on Education. Uh today is Wednesday, January 28th. We are in room 229 and it's 10:03 p.m. Uh just a note that our we are all of our live stream uh Senate standing committee meetings are available on the Senate YouTube channel in case you want to rewatch this and you have insomnia and you want to uh you know make yourself go to sleep. You can rewatch our hearings. Uh, [clears throat] with that, I just want to say that today's hearing, we're focusing on how the University of Hawaii and Department of Education and others are working together and are using public resources to educate our local students and address workforce shortages across our state. Uh, the legislature has invested substantial public funds in both systems from K through 12 through higher
002education and through operating budgets, tuition supports, scholarships, and waivers. These investments must be aligned. They must be intentional and accountable with a clear focus on outcomes that benefit Hawaii's community and our economy. Uh this committee is interested not only in where the money is going, but how our students are being prepared. Addressing workforce needs requires instructional strategies that move beyond in traditional lectured based models and instead promote student engagement, creativity, critical thinking, and problem solving skills for today's and tomorrow's workforce. Uh strong coordination between DOE and uh is critical to ensuring students are supported along the entire pipeline from classrooms to credentials to careers and that coordination should be reflected in spending decisions, academic pathways and measurable results and the Senate in fact believes that and which is why now we have one committee education
003and we're not splitting it up. Uh so today's discussion is about accountability, transparency, and alignment. And we look forward to hearing how DOE and uh are working together to ensure public dollars are educating local students, strengthening our workforce, and producing outcomes that truly serve Hawaii. And with that, I want to introduce our committee members. On my left, uh vice chair of the committee, Senator Kedani. To my right, Senator Hashimoto from Maui. And further right is Senator Decort from the W night coast. So we're starting off with education teacher education coordinating committee TECC. So um we have Carrie Tom, Nathan Morata and others here too. you want to come up and can you just give a really brief for the public that might be watching about what is uh TECC and and your and your mission
004just briefly. >> Good afternoon chair, vice chair, members of committee. Nathan Marat the dean college of education uh age mana um the teacher education coordinating committee it was established in 1965 under a specific statute here uh Hawaii revised statute um and so for nearly 60 years we've been an advisory committee uh charged with identifying studying and making recommendations on matters of education that are common interest to the department and to the education preparation programs across the uh state of Hawaii and we collaborate and are working closely with um all the teacher preparation programs that's that includes both the public private and alternate certification programs that are here and we all work very closely with the department of education in um some advisory capacity >> and how many members are on your on this committee Um
005the TC comprises of approximately 20 20 somewhat individuals. >> Okay. And they span from public education, >> private private private institutions, alternative certification programs, uh HSTA is also represented, uh Hawaii P20 is also represented. >> Um and some invited guests uh depending on what the agenda items are. >> Okay. What would you say has been the accomplishments and the results um since the inception in 1965? I mean it seems like this entity has been around for a long time and to be honest a lot of people don't and my colleagues were not aware of um TECC. So uh that kind of worries me that um you know it's been around for so long yet you guys seem to be kind of really low key. >> Yes. >> Do you want me to talk about the
006plan? >> You wanted to talk about the plan a little bit? >> We can. >> Yeah, I can share. So Carrie Tom from the Department of Education, Office of Talent Management. I help facilitate the conversations with TECC as well as I'm the um superintendent designate if he can't attend the meetings. But we have a TCC has a 5-year strategic plan. So we have three objectives basically, which is building teacher capacity, um increasing inservice teacher satisfaction, and competitive compensation incentives. Those are the three um main things in the strategic plan for TECC. >> Um so basically the strategic plan the strategic plan covers what? Because you've talked about teacher capacity compensation but I don't hear anything about teaching students and and the the way we're we're delivering them. >> Yeah. I think [clears throat] um the
007TCC is is more of a of a macro synergistic kind of entity where it encompass everyone. So all the procedures and policies from a global more macro perspective is being introduced and then it's the EPS educator preparation program such as Monoa and all the 14 other entities that are uh are uh eligible to provide teacher training here in the state of Hawaii will then take the develop their own curriculum that will do the actual teacher educator training. So, have you folks been monitoring whether or not um your strategic plan or whether or not your recommendations that come out and that's another thing I'm going to ask. What are what are some of the things that have come up that have been implemented? Do you folks keep track of that and how effective? >> So, we
008have some specific areas like for building capacity. We look at early pathways and recruitment um articulation agreements between in the university system alternative pathways from traditional um program support and retention are some of the capacity builders that we're kind of looking at. >> Yeah, but you're looking at it. But what have we got? I mean and and this [clears throat] fiveyear strategic plan you guys been in in existence and maybe not the same people, but it's been there for 60 since 1965. Yeah. >> Right. So every every 5 years you have a new strategic plan or you just keep building on the fiveear strategic plan and move it up year after year. >> Yeah. Well, um when I came in on as dean on eight years ago, we started to um um along with the
009um Christina Kishimoto at that time to uh create this strategic plan in order to have all the EPS sort of have a say in and and work closely with the department and so that we're unified in in preparation and at least having all the necessary information to develop our programs. So then we we actually came up with five objectives earlier and we scaled it down to these current three objectives that uh that we find to be um uh realistic um you know impactful and there are certain outcomes that we do have um that TECC was part of some recommendations that the department has um taken on to uh as far as teacher preparation programs. So, >> and what about the board of education? Do you guys um >> board of education >> communicate with them,
010advise them of what you folks are doing? What's the plan? I mean, is there any kind of dovetailing coordination? >> Um I don't not so much with the >> Yeah, not with the board of education. Well, so because the entity is made up of all the EPS and the Department of Education, we usually take that information back and then we go back to our respective agencies um and work on the various issues that we talk about whether it's pathways improve the teaching teacher ed program. Um that's generally how it kind of works from TPCC. We go back and then we we talk to our fellow agencies. So for example, some of the things that we've been trying to work on is um I think for TETC it's about getting interest um for people to become
011teach especially our young people right we're we're trying to figure out how we can attract our young people um to become teachers um [snorts] and then mid-career changers you know those are some of the populations we're kind of looking at and so we kind of go back and that's the biggest conversation we've been having now how can we partner together to build that pipeline um because recruitment you know, has been better um because um we've kind of streamlined our processes, but it's generating that interest. So, some of the recruitment team that I oversee, we've been going out, let's say, into elementary, secondary, middle schools to start talk having these conversations with kids um and you know, with teacher pathwaymmies within the high schools. So, we've been working on things like that. So, have you folks
012been talking about how we move from lecture-based teaching to stu student centered learning? >> I mean, at the in higher ed in the education preparation programs. >> Uh, >> well, at least at least I can only speak to Mono. >> Okay. But it's not just in at higher ed, but in order for higher ed to to to implement this, >> the public schools have to embrace it as well, >> right? So you cannot be putting out uh teachers who have these this new way of of teaching but they go into the traditional way of teaching and when they get out. >> So it is a connection which is why we're here. >> I don't think that >> kind of collaboration has been happening yet we have you TECC which you have both entities and and
013others that can can do that. So you know that's why I raised this concern. Well, I know that at the TECC level, uh, every year the, um, chair chairperson ch, uh, alternates. So, this year is I'm I'm chairing the TECC. Next year is a superintendent. >> Now, do you folks actually are in the meetings or you have your representatives? >> Oh, I'm uh, we're at I'm at actually at the meetings >> and yes, >> the superintendent is at the meeting. >> When he's he attends the meeting? >> Yes. >> Okay. What does that mean? >> How often is that? >> Depends on what his schedule is, but I'm usually the designate that works with TECC. members, you have a question, please. >> Yeah. Um, how how comparable your is your strategic plan to Department of
014Ed's strategic plan? How much of your plan do they incorporate in the overall? >> Well, the two plans are a little bit separate because we're dealing with um yeah, you know, education providers, >> both public and private. >> That's right. So, um I know for for for us we try to align it with at least our preparation programs with regard to recruitment, retention, um accessibility to get to uh all the neighbor islands and >> and for us it aligns with because we're trying to fill the vacancies in the department of education. So, we're trying to figure out how do we build those pipelines with our EP partners. So like I mentioned previously um we are able to recruit and fill the vacancies but when we look at the there's a there's a churn there but
015we're trying to figure out how so our mission is really to work with them like I said about generating interest in our young folks. So that's been the newest program. How do we kind of figure that out? Um because it's you know local grown is been our focus lately. >> Yeah. So according to your report, it seems like you folks have been able to increase um the teacher um positions. However, a report had come out in December saying that 48% of the teachers in the classroom uh were not licensed. Um so how does that play into your strategic plan? Because if we're just filling seats for the sake of filling seats and then coming to the ledge, checking the box and making it look pretty, but when we start getting into the root and weeds
016of things, it's like what are we really giving our kids here? We're giving them quality or we're just putting people in a room uh for the sake of coming back to the ledge during session and saying, "Hey, we we we checked off the box where really it's not quality." Well, I I think you know again speaking only for Monoa, you know, I think we we are um um delivering an excellent product. Obviously, we we graduate anywhere from 250 to 300 a year uh at Monolo and and that clearly does not suffice to fill all the vacancies and so I know the department has gone through past couple of years streamlined their uh application and hiring processes whereby now where in the past you've heard of maybe a thousand vacancies now I think they're down to
017about a hundred whereby teachers now our graduates can actually access the schools directly. ly and apply almost directly at the schools to find where these positions are. So in that sense, yes, we we are very much uh in tune with that. However, just just if you do the math, the numbers of of of candidates that the state produces, including private public alternatives does not meet the obviously the totality of what's vacant. >> Yeah. So, I'm I'm just going to be bringing it back to my point, which is the teachers that are in the classroom, 48% of them are not licensed. >> Correct. >> So, why do we keep lowering the standards in the classroom just to fill for the classroom's sake? Do you think that our students deserve teachers that are not licensed? >> I
018mean, teacher quality is really important. So, where we dovetail is that so it's kind of like a continuum where um we have licensed folks and we have these emergency hires. What we're finding is when we've done surveys is that actually some of a lot of these are people who are older. So they're not going into the system as young folks, right? They're actually a lot of them are mid-career changers. Um so in TCC we're actually trying to figure out like how can we work and support these people who are actually showing interest. So they might have been waitresses or other careers and they're switching to be teachers but they don't have the certification. So that's also a key area that we're trying to work with is providing more support for these people so they can
019become licensed. >> Okay. Because just in my opinion, um that is unacceptable to have teachers that are not licensed teaching our kids and in our classroom. So a part of your 5year strategic plan is also increasing compensation and incentives. Now, I understand that your $10,000 a year bonus is not really an incentive for people to um sign up for the jobs. Uh, so are you working on compensation that is a little bit more um able for people to afford the cost of living here? >> Well, that's a good question. I mean, I think we try to advocate every year to uh for salaries and the benefit packages and I think the differentials for like hard to fill areas, special education, I I think that's a good start. Um, >> so when you advocate for the
020increase of compensation, where where is there a wall? Where does it stop? So you folks advocate >> at us. It stops at us, >> unfortunately. [laughter] >> We We'll try harder. >> Okay. Okay. We We'll try harder. >> We don't We don't give them the money. >> Senator Kedani, >> thank you. Um basically uh she asked some of the questions I had but uh with the education uh preparation program the EP to you know hire and train more teachers but what is our retention rate doing what percentage maybe not the ones that are just coming in but what percentage of teachers are we losing each year so you know maybe we need to beef up the program or beef up the salary I don't know what it is but >> the retention rate has about
021>> little above 50% >> 50% of the >> of the workforce over 5 years >> retention >> yeah but you know again speaking only on behalf of Monoa our retention rate on our own data we have um we have a 90% retention rate at 5 years and beyond for our graduates that are currently still employed in the department so I think uh Carrie's referring to just the overall >> uh with all the EPS and all the alternative certification programs So we we're very proud of that um data that we have. But yes, it is the retention issue is also a recruit. So we kind of look at it from recruitment and retention kind of go hand in hand. You can recruit at nauseium, but if they keep leaving, I mean, you're still at a zero
022balance. So, we're trying to do the recruiting, but we're also trying to address the retention issue through various means such as wage compensation, um improving perhaps be work working conditions, um things of that nature. So, >> so have you folks >> all these years kind of figure out why we can't retain? I mean, what is the what is I know it's not one thing, but there's a lot of things going on that people some of it is they didn't sign up for some of their duties, right? That they didn't sign up to be a nurs's aid. They didn't sign up to give medication and do stuff like that in the classroom. Um, I mean, do we know do we know what why we can't retain? I mean, we can't just keep throwing money at it
023if maybe money is not the only thing. If it's you know teachers responsibilities and the workplace environment then what have you guys >> so I'll tell you that our separation data shows that the majority when you look at the data are actually leaving out of the state. So in terms of when we check annually um they're just leaving now it you know for what reason it is but that's the aggregate reason >> but do you guys ask them for what reason is it for possibility >> uh transient military is is a large one >> yeah sometimes they mention affordability but it generally the rollup is like they're leaving that's been the general reason >> so so I think that the bottom line is right TECC is you're supposed to be figuring a pipeline, right? So,
024so the your bottom line problem is you just have too many teachers leaving and not enough people in the pipeline coming in. And and I think you know Dean Maratha knows how much I've been trying to work on this issue. But I think what frustrates me a little bit is you talk about mid-career people. That's fine. What I've been saying what you have to do and I don't know what the DOE is doing is you have to get the young folks to go right. You have to get the conversions right out of high school. How do you convince them to become teachers? And and that's why but the DOE needs to have a concerted effort to figure out how do you make that happen? Like we talk about pathways, right? So we we go to
025on Maui, we try to figure out one principal, okay, one principal wants to do a pathway, we go to another school, they say no. Why why are you guys allowing them to say no? You tell them if we as a department want to have we need a robust pipeline, right? And so I think that the DOE in itself needs to help yourself to figure out how do you create that pipeline. you are the best, you know, system to figure out how do you get these young people to become teachers. But then it goes to uh right cuz so uh has to then figure out how do we convert these people? How do we make it easy to to become get that teaching degree? Right? Right now it's not easy. That's why I've been harping on
026the college of ed to make that conversion easier. Right from freshman year right out of high school through your four years, it has to be seamless and it's not seamless right now. But the question is is what is DOE doing? like you have you have early college, you have Hawaii Promise. What are you using out of those programs to recruit teachers, but it doesn't seem like it's a party. And I get it. I support the J1 program, but let's be honest, the J1 program is a band-aid, right? That is supposed to buy us time, but then TECC is then supposed to come in and figure out, okay, what is the longer term strategy while we have this band-aid in place? And so when I read read this report, I get really concerned that I'm not
027seeing that synergy or that strategy, right? In fact, what I'm reading is that you closed down one of your programs and you left 50 teachers in limbo, right? Potential teachers in limbo. And that really concerned me, right? Why are we why are we adding barriers when I think the whole purpose of TECC is to close those barriers and gaps? So I don't think people are taking this seriously, right? I have another report that I had to put a bill to get a request of the the report on establishing Kico expanded teaching cohort programs in each county. And I'm looking at the data with my staff today and I'm appalled. Like this is 2425 and according to the enrollment at least at Monoa it's only 214 or 274 I'm sorry. And for Maui, it said we
028only have 41 enrolled in the College of Ed, 2425, and and it's only nine bachelors of ed teachers, right? And so I'm like, and then on Aahu, it's only 151. And so if you look at the data, the data speaks for itself that we should be really really concerned that yes, you need the pipeline in, but but what what barriers are we are we breaking down to to make sure that we have a robust pipeline? Yeah, I would agree that attracting young folks into profession. >> Yeah, but what did you guys do over the last three years because I requested this in 2022. What have we done since 2022? >> Yeah, I [snorts] you know there there there are a lot of different I mean so because he's made up of a bunch of folks
029you know like HSB is pursuing >> No, but is the DOE are you not concerned about your teacher workforce? >> We are. But I don't see that concern happening, right? I guess you do the J1s, but what else are you what else are you guys doing? I like this is serious. If you look at the numbers, >> so I I guess maybe the question should be more directly is when you do exit interviews, what is the number the top five reasons why teachers leave? You said transient, but what else is it? A salary. Um >> I could I could get that information for you about the lower level breakdown >> but I think what the question is is what is the strategy moving forward and I don't know like you know you guys are here
030but I don't hear what the strategy is. Um so again you know we get back to the basic is to how this committee in the number of years that they've been there is working together and look you know are you talking with the board of education are they involved um just because they don't have a member on this doesn't mean that there's not policies that need to be looked at uh for public schools as well. And so you know how have the activities listed in the 2023 24 and then the 2425 reports impact the number of state approved uh teachers program uh students getting into education as a career what's been the impact and and how have they >> influenced that >> you know I I think you know based on the report uh they
031have to ask is that act >> [clears throat] >> you know, uh, again, you know, I can't speak for everyone, but, um, you know, our our our data at Monoa over the past couple of years has been somewhat stable and sometimes even going in a lower trajectory than I care to admit. Um but what we are currently working on too with the help of others in the in the uh system is is a is a much more focused uh to get to Senator Hashimoto's point about seamlessness and um transitions from our community colleges to the four years and we've made significant progress on a on our on two two plus two articulation agreements whereby we should have a seamless u process of getting students from the community colleges over into teacher path. pathways >> without
032any um minimal disruptions and and and barriers. >> But if the university is only producing two two to 300 students and the rest of the marketplace uh is putting out the students, it's still not enough. So >> So what do we do? We it's not we know it's not enough. So what are we doing about it? [clears throat] >> What are you guys in the committee doing about it? >> Yeah. So I mean we we really are having those discussions. I mean even recently um I >> but the discussions and discussions and discussions since 1965 so after a while you know we got to start acting and and implementing and not just planning and discussing >> right I mean where is where is the bold actions let me let me ask DOE this question so
033[cough] there you folks made a statement or there's been a statement that said DOE processed 11,000 teacher applications to fill the usual 1,000 vacancies with highly qualified teachers. So where did the 11,000 applications um originate from? >> So because we had a sort of a pool-based system which was uh the positions were you apply for a position right and before you would just be sent on anywhere it went position specific. So now all the positions by each school is advertised that way. Uh when we did that the aggregate amount that we were receive increased like from 3,000 it went to 11,000. So it's just an aggregate number of how many applications went in. Um and of course yes it it impacted our vacancies um positively where we would be maybe having a standing you know
034600 after school started. It's maybe down to below 100 now. So it's just the >> you have below 100 vacancies. That's not true. Right. The report that was shown to us was more than that vacancies. >> Well, when we talk about vacancies, these are what schools are posting. So, currently, like today, they had like 74 current active requisitions in terms of posting teacher jobs. >> How many are local applicants or returning to Hawaii applicants of that 11,000? >> We could we could provide that data. We would have to look at that. Why did only 45 candidates in Hawaii attend the teacher career fair if the goal is to attract and build teacher cap teacher career pathways? >> So when it mentions about the um the career fair and you know lowering of numbers it's because
035of the effectiveness of the applicant tracking system. So before you know what happens is people are actually being able to apply to those jobs specifically so that they actually have a job prior to needing to go to the job fair. What is the status of the teacher apprentice program and how it's impacted teacher recruitment? >> So the teacher apprentichip program is um I I think it's going through its uh consulting consult process. >> So you have no data from the >> Yeah. I mean program hasn't started. Hasn't started. So it's supposed to impact recruitment, right? It's about this >> and to what's the goal though? >> Well, it's a terrific pathway in terms of it provides an opportunity for people to become teachers and the um partially financial, >> right? But as far as actually
036recruiting them, actually getting them to >> Well, I think the the current program that's a pilot [clears throat] I think with with the Department of Labor, there's a specific number of funds that's been earmarked. So that those funds would be used to pay for the salaries and um uh tuition, I believe. So I think depending on the funding that's available uh they would be the candidates will be able to benefit from getting their tuition covered plus some salary increases as part of per the apprenticeship program uh until the time they graduate. So there should be minimal cost to to minimal to zero cost to the candidates themselves. >> Okay. So do you folks feel that TECC has been effective, have been successful, have been impactful and is worth going on, you know, after 65 years
037or beyond 65 since 1965. Um >> are we just spinning our wheels with another entity? Well, you know, I think uh to be to answer the question, you know, I think we've I can only speak for the past 8 years. Um but I think we've we've um the TECC's I think is a good committee because it brings in not only the uh system program, but it brings in the privates the alternate programs that really gets to see the the the process. And so everyone at all 14 of us that are involved in teacher preparation here in the state of Hawaii gets to hear and see what the department is requiring, get to see what the charter schools are requiring. Uh and and that I think is a is a healthy thing. So then that way
038our candidates may have choices uh in selecting potential programs. So I I see it as a benefit. Um this also gives myself and and the superintendent an opportunity to engage by by monthly to talk about um priorities for the department and and my unit so that we can stay aligned. >> So I personally think it's a good thing. >> Nothing about what you had just said actually ended in real results. It was seeing, it was talking, it was meeting, it was looking, it was observing, it was viewing, but nothing hiring, [cough] stabilizing, retention, filling vacancies. So again, the the question is, is TECC in what you folks were put in place for? Do you feel confidently that that has been accomplished and continuing to be accomplished? Because it seems like you guys are not even
039operational at this point. Um well I you know I think I would I would I would um um suggest that uh I think there are things that we we discuss and we try to implement. There are some some outcomes and deliverables that we try to obtain every year. I know we were instrumental in helping the department trigger the sheltered instruction. Um and um I don't know some other things but there there there I mean there's a lot more we could have done but I you know there are the the conversations surrounding what we're doing and what the requirements are at least at least from a synergy standpoint everyone gets to hear exact and we can't control what the privates um alternative programs do. Um, but I think for us, you know, we I feel pretty
040good about, you know, uh, having that just the constant um, dialogue and conversations between the superintendent and the Mona campus at least. >> Yeah, it was valuable. I mean, in the conversations like I mentioned about going from like this broad-based recruiting method maybe about 5 years ago to position specific was a a really a big game changer for us in terms of recruitment. But through the conversations with the TECC, I mean it used to be kind of operational review like how do my people apply? They can't even see the positions. Um so in terms of that feedback, we [clears throat] were making some changes like in terms of like recruitment and how we were doing things. >> So as example through your career fairs, uh you folks attracted 307 schools. Um but within that 45
041candidates were received. That doesn't seem very effective to me. 307 schools with 45 candidates. >> Yes. So what I had mentioned is that in this in the recent job fairs um because candidates could see the positions early on they didn't attend the job fair and that's our analysis of it. >> So you guys are having these fairs and no one is are no one is showing up. >> Well >> have you guys pivoted your approach then? How long did you realize that these uh career fairs were not working when it hit the 200 mark? >> Uh no, so the career fairs we we maintained. It was just that when the transition kind of occurred, we could see it. I mean, as soon as it went to position specific recruiting, we saw that the job fairs
042just right if they had an offer, they just didn't attend. And that's when it kind of occurred. Maybe about a year ago. I was the system's been running about a year and a half. What would you say is your most effective recruiting process right now? >> Your number one. >> So from my from my perspective, it's always been this position specific recruiting so people could see where the vacancies are. That seemed to be one of the best things. We also have like a um a geo map feature. So now you can kind of hover and see where the positions were because a lot of times people just didn't know like if [clears throat] the positions here this is where it looks like either you know on an outer island or on a wahoo at least
043from the recruitment side. >> When was that implemented? >> It's been about two years now. >> How many have you folks hired from that? >> Well okay so um you know we we have to fill about a thousand vacancies even to this day. So we we fill most of them but like we had the conversation earlier right they could be mid-career changes emergency hires etc. So there's it definitely generated a lot of interest um but the items we talked about will perhaps need more work on >> so what would be your definition of success then? >> So I I'm speaking from the recruiting standpoint it was such a success that we actually could fill these vacancies. Um but as you guys have pointed out you know mentioned there's some issues around quality or the types
044of teachers that are going in. So, so what so I guess what the question is is what what are you what is you guys what is your strategy moving towards like you know as you meet what is the the biggest issue that you're trying to overcome right now is it bringing that of you know high quality teacher in every single classroom or is it just to fill the classroom you know I don't know you got to you got to kind of tell us because I think then it gives us a better idea of where we're trying to go in in in in the teacher recruitment side right >> I think it's definitely Definitely teacher quality. We've had that that conversation. We had an accreditation meeting with the TECC recently and that was definitely the the
045topic. >> Okay. So then what are the tactics you're using to increase quality? Right. >> That's true. I mean >> so >> I would agree. >> Yeah, you discussed it but what's the result? >> So that conversation is was very new as of like last month. Um in terms of >> do you meet monthly? You guys meet? Yeah, we do meet monthly >> monthly monthly >> but it was an excellent meeting in terms of I mean if you're asking about the conversations definitely it was around like teacher quality um how do we give access um for especially remote and outer island areas to get access to teacher ed prep programs that was another topic that was brought up heavily >> only last month >> oh no >> no I wouldn't say that but it's um
046it's one of the key issues that had come up during that particular meeting I mean it's come up before but >> it's come But but but if you know that's the issue, you should it should be a standing agenda item at every meeting and what is what is the progress that we're making, right? Because I I I just go back to the pipeline. If you yes, you can fill every seat, but you know, if it's if it's not what you're what the definition of what the strategy is supposed to be, then I don't know if the mission is is quite there, right? >> Yeah. So alternative pathways um programs from other EVPs are also being considered to provide that that access and things of that nature. >> Okay. Well, I think you maybe that's at
047the next meeting you should be very clear with everybody what what is our goal here, right, of what we're trying to accomplish. My my my thing is that the pipeline just got to be robust. I think that's that clearly has to be what we got to focus on, right? What is what is the DUI bringing to the table? What can the college of ed not only at Monoa but West Aahu what what is Hilo bringing to the table right like what what is the entire university system including the CC's what are they bringing to the table to make this happen and if we don't see the the number of people we got to we got to change we got to pivot right cuz I asked I asked on Maui are you guys interviewing all the
048the um PAL people who run the county summer program and they're like what we don't we don't talk to each other I'm like what do you mean that's that's your pipeline right there but no nobody's talking to them right and so if you if you have a problem with the pipeline. You got you cannot just do the same thing. You got to you got to think of other things, right? I think it's it's that important that we want you to succeed. It's not like we're here to come and scold you. We want you to succeed and make sure that you're going into the right direction. >> But even if we get the pipeline, you only putting out two to 300 students max and that's still not going to be enough, >> right? I mean, >>
049well, I mean, we, you know, we do have capacity. We could certainly increase. We accept every qualifying candidate to our programs. So again it goes you know to what Carrie was talking about earlier is the trying to drum up that that interest pipeline thing. So um you know we do have programs at Manoa like for example Ed Risings program where we are actually in the high schools they are they're coming to campus in next month to generate teaching as an interest profession. So we are doing little things to to add to our repertoire of recruiting efforts and working closely with the department. Um but again we we've been averaging 250 300 a year pretty steadily. So um clearly that's not enough to to reduce to to a point where we got highly qualified people in
050all of our classrooms. So that is the goal. That is we're not that is the target. That's the standard and um getting there is taking us a little bit longer. Um but we're we're we're moving toward that that direction. What is your opinion of a qualified teacher? >> Qual well >> a quality teacher. Let me say that. >> Well, I think you know I can sum it up in two words probably. Student success student success with regard to academic. >> So if the child is reading at a third grade level at at high school, that's not success, right? No, I mean I'm talking broader like successes, >> right? >> meeting benchmarks, meeting grade level >> criterion. Uh I just kind of kind of encapsulated everything into >> So would you agree that a part of
051the teacher quality is being licensed? >> Oh, definitely. >> Okay. Would you agree that a part of the teacher quality would even possibly be degreed um have experience in the DOE system? or just having teaching experience period. Yes. >> Yes. >> Very valuable. Yes. >> Yes. Okay. Um I think we're going to actually need to get some real data from you folks uh with a real strategic plan on what that's looking like because if you just look at the reports to me it looks like you guys are just checking the box. And that's difficult because student success is very subjective. Success in what? Working at McDonald's, being a doctor, uh, working in the military. What? Success is very subjective, but we can't expect success from our students if we don't expect success from our teachers.
052And we can't expect success from our teachers if we're not holding them to a standard. And it doesn't sound like you folks are pursuing this in an aggressive way. And you don't even have DOE to come behind you to match that up because we have teachers in my district that are still in a position where they are uh trying to go through the process to become the accredited teachers and they've been waiting for 3 years. So I feel like there's a there's a mark here that's being missed. Meanwhile, kids are graduating in my district with fourth grade reading level. Okay, fourth grade reading level is so offensive and insulting to any parent. And if you guys have kids, you guys should be insulted that this is what's happening on our watch and it's happening in
053real time. And the longer it takes you guys to figure it out, the more our kids suffer, the more our parents suffer and our community suffers. So, I'm not sure if there's just an apathetic approach to this, but the lack of aggressive effort to have quality teachers in there is so disappointing because I look at it as continual unemployment happening as soon as our kids graduate and they real and they wonder why they cannot just get a basic job because they don't have the basic soft skills or even computer skills for that matter. So, I would just like to say that chair. Thank you. And I that takes me back to my original one of my original questions is that how are students being prepared, you know, and and we still teaching is an industrial
054age and we're we're not anymore. U so we really need to address that and and that doesn't seem like something that the TECC has been addressing at all. Right. >> No, because it it'll it'll it's actually the uh the responsibility of the the teacher educ educator preparation program. So the TECC would not dictate or or mandate anything with respect to how how a teacher preparation program will deliver their program. That's an accreditation issue. >> It's not so much mandating but as to the philosophy as to do we continue to teach as an industrial nation versus teaching transforming the way we we work with students. Also that affects the novice teacher coming in. The novice teacher is standing first day in front of a class of 25 students with no reinforcement, nobody to help her, nobody
055to mentor her in the classroom while they're in the classroom versus uh transforming across the country where you're having team teaching and and other forms where there's more than one teacher in the classroom. Um, and that's how you support the new teachers and then they don't feel so all alone. Uh, and it's not like their first day of school is like their last day of school. Uh, be being in front of the classroom by themsel. Um, so I mean those are some of the things too about why teachers leaving within five years. It's the younger ones or the newcomers that probably may not, you know, while they're they're getting the kind of uh education at the college level, once they get into the classroom and once they're a teacher, they may not feel that they're
056having a lot of support in the while they're in the classroom. They may be going to a lot of training, but right there in the classroom. Um, so I think that's something that we would like to see. You know, you have an impressive group of people on this on this committee, right? Yes. You have Brigham Young University. Yes. Right. >> Shamanad University. [clears throat] Yes. >> Hawaii Pacific University. I teach Hawaii. >> Yes. >> Kaho. >> Yes. >> Kahua Violoa Indigenous Teacher Education. Leeward Community College. Teach Away. Teach for America. University of Hawaii Hilo. University of Hawaii Manoa. University of Hawaii West Oahu and other entities invited to participate. Hawaii P20, Hawaii State Teachers Association, Hawaii Teachers Standard Board, >> uh, Manoa in peace. Of course, I don't see BOE on here. Um, but and
057you folks meet monthly. I I'm not sure with this many people what exactly are coming out as a result and how many actually show up. And then you said it's good because then you get to to talk with the superintendent, right? you folks get to >> well I think everyone there gets to um gets firsthand information about what's happening in the department what's happening uh accredititation wise uh >> yeah but you don't have to wait for the meeting to >> to collaborate right because a lot of it at the end of the day while all of these people are agreed to be in one group that DOE and the University of Hawaii should be in close >> yes yes >> communication on a regular basis >> yes and we and dovetailing as to what we're
058doing. >> Um, if there's other questions, let me just ask this final question. You know, the statute indicates that the committee may include recommendations for legislative consideration. What has TA TECC discussed that would support the three strategic plan objectives that could be submitted for ideas for the legislative action? >> Have you folks submitted anything? No, but uh but we do invite uh legislators to our TECC meetings. Oh >> um to share. >> Who have you invited? >> Um mostly the education folks. Um next next month we have uh Representative Garrett coming. >> Okay. >> To talk to us about priorities >> in occasion. >> Oh, we do. No, >> we we definitely um invite you know all the education folks. So um >> education folks on here [laughter] members >> anybody got invited? Cindy [laughter]
059>> I I know we're busy and I know it's difficult. So, I mean, other than that, you know, what kind of bills or what kind of legislation have you folks felt that you might need to support what you're doing? >> How often do you meet? Once a month. >> Once a month. >> Just once a month. And is it what time? What what day? >> Uh, usually usually it's uh >> Second Wednesday of the month at uh 9:00 now. >> Okay. when we're hearing. So, it's probably why we don't go if you've invited us. >> There's there's there's been conflicts. I think Kadan, your office responded saying that you're not available because of conflict. >> Well, it's hard if you don't even know you exist, though. You know, it's hard legislators when they don't even
060know. >> No, that's that's true. I mean, I've been around long time and I've only recently learned about you guys. >> Yeah. >> It's been there since 1965. So, >> yeah. I don't know if that's my >> Some of us weren't even born yet. >> Speak for yourself. I was I [laughter] was so in a way. >> Uh but yeah, but it's not so much what we going to tell you. It's what it is that you think you you need as far as any kind of legislation. I'm not encouraging you to just come up with a measure just to come up with one. But I'm just saying that is there, you know, >> in the past few years, we've senator, we've been trying to come up with deliverables, outcomes that we can share, not only
061with the EPS, but with with everyone. and and and it's it's it's been a conversation and and and and we're still trying to uh get to a space where, you know, we feel comfortable with coming up with legislative. We've never done it, at least not during my tenure here. Um but we've something that we can seriously consider as a governing body, as a as a as a as an entity for the state that that oversees a lot of these things. I'd be happy to see if we could move legislation. Um, but I also realize too that, you know, we've got all the private sectors there. We've got everyone there. So, um, want to be mindful of of of of everyone at the table. So, >> right. I'm sure that they also need support and help
062in many ways as well. >> Yep. >> Right. >> So, okay. Well, um, you know, we're going to, if I have anything to say about this, we're going to have you come back year after year to give us your report. Okay? And so to see what your, you know, what your successes, results, and uh, so forth. So, you know, you can take that back to your committee um, in your next month's meeting and really have a robust discussion about what it is that you know that you can provide uh, as far as results. Not just discussions, not just plans, but implementation and and results. >> Okay, >> you can get that. I mean, we need all the help we can get and that's why we put all of these good folks on this committee hopefully
063so that we can get a a nice comprehensive. >> Yeah, we appreciate the the help and the support on this because we will we feel it's an important uh committee and uh we realize the the value. We want to make sure >> who administers this DOE administers or is it uh administers? share it between DOE and >> yeah but I mean overall who's the one point person for TECC >> this year is me >> okay so you you do all the scheduling of the meeting >> yeah so prior to a meeting we we share agenda >> is there a budget >> no budget okay just comes out of >> no >> okay members if there are no other questions thank you very much >> okay >> we will move on to our second yeah and
064please look at that whole how how teaching is being delivered delivered to our students. >> Y >> got it. Thank you. >> Okay. Okay. As they leave, we're going to have and invite the University of Hawaii. [clears throat] >> Not that I can call. >> Good afternoon, chair, vice chair, and members of the committee. Uh Luis Calivia, uh chief financial officer. So members, we are talking about in general uh uh budget, the AI program, NIL and CIP. I know we we talked about some of this uh at the ways and means committee and we didn't really get in depth to it. So today we are able the committee were able to get more details. Uh and I guess I will start it off and just to ask uh one of the things we talked about
065in ways [clears throat] and means was the 420 million tuition fund balance and uh we understand that 175 million of this is on reserve for for in emergencies so forth right that is correct >> so which leaves about 245 million and I think the question back then which I don't believe we had a real definitive answer and I'm not sure that there will be completely definitive but we want to know what is the plan for these monies. >> So um chair and and thank you for the question. I think you know as president Hansel has come in and has saw that there were significant balances that were accumulating within the uh tuition and fee special fund. And to provide a little bit of context, the tuition and fee special fund really started to increase during
066the COVID period because there was a huge infusion of federal money that came in. There was a significant amount of increase in uh in the investment returns of uh of our balances at that period of time. So there was a a quick increase in those balances going forward. And as it accumulated, I think with President Hansel coming in, the intention really is maintaining the the board policy 16% reserve fund in order to address major shifts and changes in any type of uh revenue during the year, but to also to make strategic investments in student success going forward. So I think as you're going to hear from some of the people that will come up whether it's the AI program or some of the student success programs that uh that Hensel's administration wants to do it
067that the there's a significant focus on using that to make strategic investments into the university in order to meet the outcomes that that the public and especially the legislature want to see. >> Okay. I I think that that's good. Can we get a little bit more details just to say that it's going to go into those programs like what are you talking about uh what percentage of the monies are going to go where? So that would be helpful for us I think to to see that. >> Sure. And and I think that you know that conversation is definitely evolving uh and we can definitely get back to you. A lot of it also is that we have to coordinate with the board of regents and get their buy off on how we utilize uh th
068that money within uh what we're calling the cash balances. Uh but again I think the big ones that are really coming up are some of the issues related to the utilization of AI in um in in our institution. um what portion of these these monies are going to be used for uh say reorganization and elevating people uh into vice president associate vice president positions. Uh this is something we've been seeing at the DOE level where they've created more deputies. they've created more people on on the upper unchelant and the bureaucracy and from what I might be hearing is that you know the university is also looking at this in in creating more vice presidents and more associate vice president and where's the money going to come from and do we want to you know how
069does that elevation um translate into student success and >> uh that's a good question and some of the reorganization that's happening right now at the system level is being done for people who are currently doing the job. Uh so you know whether it's >> yeah they're currently doing the job and some of them aren't doing a good job. I'm sorry [laughter] >> and yes >> you know that doesn't mean they should be elevated even if they're doing a good job elevated into a higher status they're supposed to be doing a good job >> and >> for the salary they're making now. So, so that is that is a uh that is definitely uh an issue that we that I will take back in terms of as we discuss how this reorganization is happening. But a
070lot of it is to realign existing you know uh I guess responsibilities and accountabilities in order to create you know the right individuals and creating accountable people within the organization that are going to be responsible for things like especially workforce which is one of the one of the areas that uh that the president is looking at uh implementing going forward. So, but creating those accountable individuals so that we can drive performance and that the legislature has somebody that they okay well what did you do what did you do with regards to workforce going forward. So, we can definitely have that conversation on how you know we can proceed together in this. But a lot of the what we're trying to accomplish here is is is listening to the concerns that the legislature have brought forward
071to us over the past years. >> Good to hear that. Let me ask one more and then I'll go to Senator Kedani. And I'm, you know, you folks all know in this room that I'm very frank. And so, um, few years ago when Lner decided that he was going to give all of his vice presidents, his five vice president or was it four vice presidents a raise and they got as much as $35,000 in one swoop and it wasn't like the only raise. uh we didn't see any change in and then and they also have gotten more more percentage increases and they even making more now I haven't seen anything elevated in the delivery of service in the delivery of impacting student success or any of that in fact if anything and I was going
072to point out as we get to CIP there's a lot of problems that have taken place so again it doesn't necessarily you know mean that we're going to get better service >> better results. >> I I can't speak for what happened in the past. I think in my particular role as I'm coming in, >> but it's people that's there now. you're saying these are the people you want to elevate and I'm just saying that [laughter] >> and and and and duly noted and I will definitely bring that back and I think the intention really is is to drive accountability going forward and so and I know that that is something that has been instilled on me in in my >> few weeks that I've been on the job so far and I think that's going
073to be an expectation for everybody going forward. >> Okay. When you say accountability, what are the it's one thing to keep people accountable, but what is the consequences when you don't you don't you're not accountable or when you don't fulfill what you're supposed to do. There seems to be no consequences. >> It it is I think that is something that we definitely need to discuss. Um I I can't speak for >> but I hope that's something because of all my years here there's no consequence. >> Understood. Chair >> Senator Kan, how many vacancies do you have? We have approximately close to a thousand vacancies. >> How many have been vacant for more than five years? >> Uh for more than f uh for more than five four years, I'm sorry. >> Five years. >> For
074more than five years, I think close to like 800 of them have been vacant for >> So why do you still need them? taking the money from. >> So, a lot of those positions and and and and as you know, even in my prior capacity, cleaning up rosters is a very important part of what I would like to do too as well. A lot of it is realigning because some of those positions don't have money in them anymore. to your point because how the state has kind of worked uh in terms of like budgeting for payroll. It's like we have this budgeted payroll that exists on the books uh at at one particular point in time, but it never kind of adjusts whenever you have changes and it could be anything. It could be raises,
075it could be collective bargaining, it could be all of these different things. And so that budgeted amount doesn't there's it it never gets tred up and that's something that you know that I would like to you know propose as we go forward when we start cleaning up the payroll roster. >> I don't disagree with you. However, these vacancies for over these numbers of years just doesn't make sense. So either you don't need them or if you can't fill them because they need more funding then maybe we should look at what can you get rid of so we can give more funding to those positions you truly truly need. >> Definitely we'll take a look at that and and committing to you that I will be looking at uh at our existing vacancy counts and FTEES
076and how we align that and how we become more transparent in what we communicate to you and what our payroll needs are. So, so, so is this just a Manoa issue that that you take all the positions once they're vacant and then you release them or does every campus do that? >> Uh, I I have not been able to do and it's not I'm you know I'm sorry I was once the director of finance for the state of Hawaii. This is not just a University of Hawaii issue state government. >> No, no, no. What I'm saying is my understanding what I was told is that there's a vacancy. It gets swept into a fund, then you got to request it, right? And then it gets released. I just want to know if that's just Monoi.
077I see Pascilla saying, "No, it's not just Monoa." I don't know what it No, but [laughter] >> as as the university has a um you know has a lot of uh authority, statutory authority, right? I'm just I'm trying to understand what your internal policy is. Is it just someone knowing or is it is it systemwide that that every campus does that? >> I I can't speak. Okay. So, you don't know. Okay. Go find out and let us know. But, but I think the the point is >> still shaking his head. So, do you know [laughter] >> and I have no problem with somebody coming and joining me up here at any point in time by the way. >> He doesn't want to come on [laughter] chicken. >> But, but yeah. [laughter] >> No. I I
078think I think the point is is we're just trying to understand like we look at the vacancy list. Is it just a Monoa thing or you know you look at my home college of Maui College is are they more accurate? I don't know. That's what we're just trying to find out. Right. >> I think these vacancies are all over the place. Manoa Community Colleges the four years at Manoa for the faculty. We take back the empty or the vacant positions and then we reassign them according to a process internal process we have established for strategic investments. Now there are also a civil services which we don't pull them back and we leave them with the unit. >> So it depends then what position >> it depends what what kind of position. Yes. >> Okay. >>
079What was troubling back when those raises were given the question I asked was where is this money coming from? And he said it's in my budget and it's like again you know what's in your budget? All of the vacant positions monies are in your budget. Is that what >> No. Uh >> because where did the money come from then for the raises? >> Uh from positions that they end up to be vacant and you don't have money. >> So that's the president's budget to be able to take out. >> That's on the president uh discretion of how the general fund allocation of these >> positions then transforms to today. Whereas when you elevate these positions those increase in salaries when you make somebody a vice president or associate vice president will come out of these
080vacant savings >> of course. >> So so you said that the reserve started to h the balloon during co >> that's it a big portion of it started to happen uh coming out. >> Okay. So, so my understanding was around that time that's when is did you guys institute that that policy of taking those positions at that time or was was it always there? >> I I don't know. I would have to get back to when that policy was. >> Provos, do you know? >> Well, let me just say that as far as I know, uh has always had a carryover balance in the tuition fund of over $300,000. Three to 400 I mean million dollars. >> Our previous CFO was a really good CFO. [laughter] we miss him and so I think uh the
081previous CFO Calbert Young uh he had managed the funds of uh the university extremely well. He was very frugal as most of you know him >> except of him and and therefore we actually w were and we still are in a very good financial state. >> Okay. So there was there's no policy change then during co >> uh the the reserve was always there. >> No I know that the reserve was always there but when you're saying I want to know okay yes you you said co federal funds but did we have I I thought that I heard that there was you became more strict during co I don't know did you were you guys more strict at that time? >> Uh here's what happened during co we received uh an extremely high amount of
082federal funds. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, we know that part, but I'm talking about operational stuff. >> But operationally, we used the federal funds for our operations and we saved a lot. >> So, you guys didn't change any of your hiring policies. >> And and during that time, too, because of the federal coming in, there was also the maintenance of effort requirement that that we know that. >> So, so then you said you had investment returns. What was that? Uh well starting starting in 2020 um the returns on the treasury prior to that the returns on the treasury were like basis points and I think coming out coming into co that's when we saw like short-term interest rates rise to like almost 4%. So that's why you saw significant >> so you guys are making interest
083off of this >> well the every every uh you know state fund is making interest off of whatever balances that exist. It's the same thing with the with the state. You're going to go back to BNF. >> No, [laughter] >> but >> because you're making money off of state money. >> No, the university gets to keep it. >> But that's tuition. That that's tuition. So you're talking just tuition. >> I'm just talking tuition. We don't make money. The general fund money that we get stays within the general whatever interest is earned in that because that state that's you spend general fund money before you spend tuition money. There is a there is a desire to definitely utilize it and again because when you look at the way that that we get a we our revenues
084come in we get two major infusions of tuition and fees special funds right it's it's during this spring and the fall the way we get it and we get this baseline of general funds that we get throughout the uh course of the year and so for us it's kind of a matter of managing where our expenditure line is and where our where our revenues are coming in going forward. So, so yes, so there is a desire to to utilize general funds first because that's that is our most stable form of revenue. >> So, so has why hasn't the border regions if you feel like you need this type of reserve? Why doesn't the border regions just update your policy? >> Um, >> where is the border [clears throat] regions? Anybody from the border regions here?
085>> No, nobody from the board of regents is here right now. But >> but you have more than one person on the board, right? What? 11 members. >> Yes. >> And nobody could attend the two vice vice chairs not available >> unfortunately. >> But they know the legislative session is from mid January, right? >> Yes, they do. And >> they did say when we confirmed them that they would be available to do the to do the work. >> Okay. Okay. So on the policy so there so there's uh the border regions policy the policy that the border regions has senator is that the university will maintain a reserve and then >> of of just it'll maintain a reserve and then there is an an executive policy where the executive policy establishes that 16% threshold for
086us. So it's the president. >> So it is um it is the president. It is the it's the university that establishes it through an EP. But the board says makes the determination that you will maintain a um a reserve. >> So why doesn't the board codify that policy of 16% or or I guess higher because it's always higher according to to senator. I mean they could I mean they could and and we can definitely have that discussion >> because then at least you know what what exactly do you have to keep in reserve and if you're going to lapse the you know you're going to you got to deploy the rest right if not >> right cuz if you're not deploying it like you could you could go fund nil right >> well and and
087I [laughter] think that's I think that's the discussion that >> I kept asking >> and that's the discussion that I I that I'm that I've been having uh you know with uh with the president is that how do we make how do we use these reserves and how do we use this cash balances that have built over time to make the type of strategic investments that the legislature and and the university want to see and >> and I do have to give them credit for that because in all the years that I've been asking about this overage um you know they said no we need it for as a reserve we need I said you don't need that much for a reserve um so at least you folks have brought it forward talking about it
088and hopefully we're going to see some >> yes >> more action and >> yeah well if if you feel like you need that much reserve just make a policy right update the 16%. >> And and you know and and right now there is some uncertainty. Obviously we know what's happening with the Feds and so there's there there is an there's an exercise and there's an analysis that we need to do right now. >> But then you can tell us we're going to keep 10% for the Feds. Correct. We're going to do this. At least then we have an idea. >> Yes. And we can really thinking of it instead of you know we're we're doing a reorganization and we see the funds disappear. >> Correct. and and and as we go through that process, we
089will keep you informed, share, when we make those uh those assessments. >> Okay. Um I want to talk about your scholarship report for the last two years that been looking at it. >> I may need a little help with that, but >> so whoever's [clears throat] here, welcome to come up. Uh, according to your the latest report, [clears throat] $28 million 2081 154 and $829 million total scholarship waiverss and exemptions. That's based on this report and what I added up. Check 7,0007 million$7 million 207 383 million financial assistance to students. Was this Hawaii's residents or was this everybody? Because you have up here scholarships and then you have waiver tuition differentials. Um so the seven $70 million >> in scholarships Did that go to residents or resident students? >> It could be to students depending
090on, you know, what qualifies them in terms of either the waiver or the scholarship. Uh >> well, that's why I'm trying to determine because your next line, your next paragraph talks about um $108 million uh in 2024, 2025 went to non-resident students. So, am I to assume that the 70 million was just to resident students? >> We can get back to you. >> So, the you're you're looking at [clears throat] the waivers's non-resident tuition differential number 108 million there. >> I'm first looking at scholarships 70 million. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, is that >> scholarships? So, >> to to resident students, local students is everybody anybody. It it would be according to the campus they have they do as you mentioned have their tuition that percentage of the tuition that is returned back to students
091in the form of scholarships and so campuses will decide how to allocate that to students either based on need or merit >> okay but is it is it is it more than just resident students does it also include non-resident students >> I think the answer to your question is yes it is more than just residents >> okay then Why is the $108 million uh talked about board approved non-resident tuition differentials waved for 9,277 non-resident students? Uh total of 40 million was waved for 400 4,172 non-resident students who assisted and it goes on and on about the GI bill and everything. So, I I I'm just trying to determine of the of the $28 million, what portion of that went to local students to support local students? >> We'll have to get you that information. I'm
092sorry, I don't have that right now. >> I can look up I I just need to pull it up for a second, but >> Okay. So, that's the one question, >> but the non-residential tuition differentials, the NRTDs by policy go to specific allocated groups. And so they're outlined here. So for example, the GI bill. So those folks independent of any scholarship would be um getting 150%. So that's how that's how this is >> and that's basically all non-residents in that category. They would be those that are specifically identified by policy, >> but it's pretty much as I read on and on, it's it's non-residents >> because it does say it does say the heading is waiverss non-residential. So, we're spending or you're giving at least 108,8842 million worth of that of those waivers. >> Well,
093it's foregone revenue. It's not giving them money, >> but you're waving. >> It's technical monies that you would have received because as you go down on the bottom of that, um, the last line in that paragraph says tuition revenue from all the non-resident students above was $97 million. $97.5 million. Okay, write that last sentence on that paragraph because I keep hearing that, oh, you know, we love to have non-resident students because they bring in a lot of money because they pay non-res resident tuition, right? Which is higher. But according to this, it says total revenue from all non-resident students above was 97 million 97.5 million. Okay. >> Okay. But if we're giving out or waving out 108 million and we only took in 97 million, then there's a $11 million differential there. Where did the
094$11 million come out of for the non-residents differentials? >> Yeah. uh I will have to get back to you on how that accounting of that particular um scholarship and then the amount of revenue that's brought in uh is accounted for. I I do understand what you're saying that there is if you're saying that you've given 108 but you've only received 97 then technically you know we're losing money by bringing people in to the airport. I I think that's what um uh >> yes, but all these years we've been told that the non-residents really support and add the money. And when I looked at this more closely and and did the math, it shows that we're 11 million plus differential. Um so I'm wanting to know where does that money does that come out of our
095resident tuitions or where is that coming out of? I I think it comes I I in in totality in the aggregate uh the university and the amount of revenues I think it's it's kind of a blended amount of uh of revenue that comes in from different particular sources and I think the waved revenue the waved revenue especially for people coming out from out of state kind of gets absorbed in in the overall operations of the university itself. So I think there's a there's a I think we need to be clear about how we make that distinction in terms of uh revenue that's coming in from outofstate uh students versus the amount of scholarships and waiverss that that we are providing to out of state students. So that is something >> these are numbers and it's
096taken directly from your reports. So if you're not reporting it correctly to us and I guess people don't actually read this. I happen to read it and compare it and it it actually shows an a decrease and an increase. It shows a a decrease in the amount of waiverss we gave to non-residents and there was actually a a slight increase to what was taken in but it was very small. >> Okay. Um but it was still $106 million uh last year and was 98 million that we took in. So it was still a differential going on there. But you know the concern that I have and I know my my colleagues share is that how are we helping our resident? You know, a lot of money is going and we understand WCI, we understand Wui
097schools, we understand the GI bill, all that. But at the end of the day, this is a lot of money, right? million dollars going for tuition waiverss and why aren't we tailoring this to the areas of need like we're shortage of nurses, shortage of teachers. Why why aren't these waiverss and scholarships targeting those areas which we keep getting bills for every year to support the pipeline and to support our workforce development? >> I I I think a conversation is absolutely you know what the dialogue that we're having right now is what we need to hear in order to to meet the kind of intention. >> It's not the first time we've seen >> and I can only speak for the period of time that I've been here. uh chair but um duly noted what what
098you're saying and I will provide a better account on that. >> Yeah. And I think um the other point that we're missing is that that money if spent here if not spent for tuition away would be spent here and help our state too. So I think we have to take that into consideration. >> So who who who looks at it on a yearly basis of the the analysis of tuition revenues? Is it is it your position or is it is it campus by campus? >> Uh my my position is definitely involved in it uh right from an overall revenue perspective but I think uh from tuition revenue or tuition pricing for that matter I think that it's a combination of many different parts of the university to make that determination. And I think we're kind
099of in the process right now uh to actually start looking at tuition and and how much we are charging and how people are being charged. So >> is this a board? >> The board is absolutely involved in in the establishment of >> But you guys don't have to bring something every year or is it just when you feel like you need to bring it to the board? Well, I think it it goes on a cycle and and and in my reading of the policy, it there's there's a cycle of review of the of the tuition and the tuition rates. I I think the intention is to is so that people know and understand what tuition is going to be because you don't want to keep changing. >> So, so take us through the last review.
100What what did that look like? >> Are you talking about our tuition? >> Because because if it if it's looking like this, like did anyone even notice that, right? Like did did someone do the calculation? like, "Oh, maybe maybe our out of state tuition is a little bit low." >> Right. >> Sorry. And I didn't myself vice president academic strategy Deb. Um, >> you want me to just >> The provos the provos jumps up and is willing to talk. [laughter] >> Shall I bring another chair? >> No. So, let me give you a little bit of background on that. Uh so there is a as an institution we provide a lot of scholar scholarships a lot of waiverss and we have a high amount of NRTDs the non-residential tuition differential so that is supposed to
101be monitored by the head of uh every campus and they need to have a business plan of how they expend their scholarships the nds and waiverss So specifically for Manoa since I came into that position for NRTDS we charge and747 >> 87 million >> yes and then we wave 257 so the NRT obviously we are spending more than we getting And this is in my opinion. I I just came into the job a little bit problematic. So this >> So So when did we figure this out though? >> Uh I figured that out like 3 4 months ago being in the job for six. >> We're losing money on out of state people then. >> Uh we need to rebalance uh our strategy there. >> Rebalance. Okay, that's a good word. Uh and and and
102that actually that actually it is part of President Hansel's strategy when she came in and she did ask me to look into our strategy for scholarships, NRTDs and waiverss and we going to be changing that. We as an admin I cannot speak for other campuses. We are very generous on our NRDS policies on the waiverss and the scholarships. We have to tighten it up a little bit more because we need that revenue to run our operations a little bit better. Uh >> so what what's the timeline on that? That's really >> this year. Yeah. ASAP, right? >> Yes. This is this is this year we're just starting having that conversation is going to change also it is a it is a really impressive amount of money that Manoa provides in terms of scholarships waiverss and
103NRTDs. >> So but what what is the strategy though of of offering that like do these are these people staying or like >> so some of them is the Wii is that it is what it is right >> but even that is not it is what it is I think we are a good deal for people coming in from schools >> but but we get the reciprocal benefit >> we do but more people come in than people going out >> keep that data you can limit it right can't you limit it >> you can limit it and then you can change the rate right we are one of the cheapest ones 150% of our residential tuition so some of the things we're looking >> do we need to go from 150 to 175 and therefore
104we're not losing money. Right? So these are some of the things that we're looking. The other one is the merit scholarships. Do we need to tighten up a little bit more the criteria for that merit and be truly meritorious? Uh >> it's great that you're looking at it, but we want action. Excuse me. >> We want results and action, not just looking at >> Yes. I just look at that. So I [laughter] am I we have actually offered the scholarship senator I cannot take them back. >> Please don't hire a consultant to tell you what you should be doing. [laughter] Okay. >> Uh I don't think I need a consultant for that. >> I don't think so. >> So and then the board he has a policy about the 10%. So there is a minimum
105floor on uh how much we should give out in b in need-based scholarship and that's 10% of our tition revenue. >> So let me interrupt a minute. So do you who is responsible for making sure that um these numbers meet the certain policies that >> uh I would say the the head of the of the campus of each campus you >> so can the head of each campus just unilaterally decide or can the president just unilaterally decide I'm going to give this bunch of students >> it is not unilaterally you have to have a strategy so this uh these packages for scholarships are put together every year year ahead. Right. >> So when the president Lner went and gave all the Lahina Luna >> students are your >> students um and I'm not saying it's
106wrong. I'm just saying when they did that did he go to the board? Did they did you first do it a year in advance? No. Even doing a year in advance is obvious. I mean it seemed like it was a spur in a moment thing he did. Right. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Without any regard to the impact, right? uh >> to tuition to anything. Okay. I mean, you know, and it was a it was a onetime situation. I mean, I'm not saying that >> it is a onetime situation, but you understand this is for four years >> on three cohorts. So, at some point, it's going to pick and we're not on the pick and then it's going to have to come. >> Well, see, when when I heard about it, I thought it
107was just for the senior graduating class, but it it wasn't. It was for all four >> for three cohorts. Yeah. >> For three cohorts. And what's the total cost for that? 2 week >> I can get that because I have it I have it in my office because I've looked at >> Is that in this? >> It is in this. Yes, it is included. >> And was that for all local? >> I don't think it is. Yeah, >> those were private. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it wasn't because when I looked at the thing, it didn't go up. >> Yeah, waver. >> Oh, who's providing the funds? >> These are scholarships. >> And a cost of attendance. So, not only we paid for the tuition, but also we paid for the cost of attendance. teaching by
108cost of attendance >> for the food meal or you know >> room and boardroom and board. Yeah. >> Wow. >> So who's paying for it again? >> Mano. >> No, she said private. >> The first year was private funds. >> Only the first year. >> This is the second year. Then we'll have to figure out I'm not sure what >> Okay. But it's it's how many years? Because you is three cohorts. >> Three cohorts. Yes. So this is a only the second year of the first cohort. >> We we just awarded the the third cohort. >> We just awarded the third. So now you're paying first, second, and third >> and third >> and and the first, right? The first hasn't gone through the pipeline. It is for four years, >> right? Did you want
109to say something? >> Foundation, right? [clears throat] Thank you, chair. Um, so Tim Dolan, uh, Foundation. So on that first year of private funding, um, $8 million was raised. Um, not all of that went to scholarships. Some of it went to programs at Maui College. Um, but you're correct that we did not, we only had that commitment for 8 million, which clearly does not cover all all of the whole entire cohort. It was just the one year. It wasn't the Well, Carrie as as the as the attorney looking at this far into the future beyond the president's st um what what is that I mean and again it is not against against Lahina Luna it's it's a decision policy >> policy >> I think that is that we don't have a policy that requires the
110president in in that situation to come to the board for approval. Pretty sure the president at the time consulted with board leadership. I don't know to what detail to your point about >> the decision making made without sunshine. I mean decision making again and I know you're very particular when you talk to board members that they shouldn't be they shouldn't be making decision. They shouldn't be meeting and so forth but you're very pretty much I hear about it that you're pretty strict about that. So, it's fine. But then again, you look the other way on this one. >> Um obviously if we >> but there needs to be a policy and that's why the border regions should have somebody here in these meetings so they can follow up on these things because um again we're
111talking about the budget and we're talking about um uh you know potentially this is this is for La Hol. It could have easily been for Gorman High School. Who knows where it might you know could have been right. So >> I think one point at which the board gets briefed about scholarships is especially when there's um fee increase requ when we when the administration comes in for tuition increases than there's if if I'm remembering correctly there's more data provided at that time. >> So where is the money going to come from for all three cohorts now that the first year was paid for? Where is the money going to come from? How long tuition account >> from this >> from the cut? >> It'll come from the tuition and fees special fund. So it'll come
112out of this extra the $245 million. >> That would be a great idea, but right now that is not the case. It's coming from the Manoa tuition. >> And how much is in that mono tuition fund? >> Uh the reserve or >> I don't know how much money is in period >> in the in the >> where this isn't going to come out of the the is $50 million. >> 50 million that's not enough to take care of all three cohorts for the next four 4 8 12 years >> 50 million is the current balance that exists in there. So um obviously as we continue to go through this whatever the you know Pacillus is working on his particular budget in terms of like how he's going to make those expenditures given the revenue that
113he has in any given year and see how much he's going to have to draw down off of the off of the reserve. That's approximately 8 million for one year. Just to say, you know, maybe give or take 8 million. And you have all three going through at the same time, right? And one falls off, but you're still going to have three. So you're talking about >> $24 million a year. >> Million a year >> for a period of time until they cycle up. There's going to be a peak and then and then >> so you have 24 million 24 million at least for three years. 24 million. >> That is correct. >> Right. And if you only got 50 million, even though you get replenished at the third 24 million, I don't know what
114what that's going to be. >> And then you're going to come to us and ask us for more money. >> It understand. And what we can do chair is provide you on how we plan to make those uh you know those expenditures in the in the coming years because it's not all going to be like straight cash that's in I mean a lot of it gets absorbed into existing operations of of the campus. >> Let me ask you this. How many of these cohorts uh what percentage is non-residents >> because they have non-residents that go to Lahina? >> Um >> right. We'll have to get back to you, but we can >> and our students that it that come into the school after this offer was given. So, say I come in as a junior
115this year, this past year, would I be included in that in that cohort? >> They were only uh distributed to the class of 2024. >> The impacted class, >> right? But you're doing >> and so >> but you're doing the next class and the next class and >> No, it's just that set of students through their potential four years of college. So some of them are at Maui College, some of them are at uh >> I thought I was told that it's it was the senior >> the the juniors and the sophomores at the time that all of them would get it. >> That's what I thought. That's what I thought you said. >> No, that's correct. Okay. Provos is saying it's correct. Okay. See, we don't we don't even know. But my my question
116is, how many non-residents is going to get this? >> And if I if I enter as a junior and I wasn't part of it originally, do I qualify? Cuz I can imagine a lot of people might. >> So, so I doubt that they're going to be any non-resident Hawai. How can you be a a graduate of Hawaii? >> No, because some of these students live come from Micronia other places, right? And they and they enroll at they bore but they're not residents. >> Uh if that's the case then I just want to know how many. >> Okay, we'll get you that number. >> We we we need to pull that information out. >> And then anybody joining in on as a a junior or sophomore >> Yeah. after this offer was made, would they be
117included? >> Uh, we can get you that. Probably they were. We didn't uh we didn't delineate. >> It wasn't thought out. That's why when this was set forth, right? >> I I got to live with what I got to leave. Senator >> Yeah, cuz it was on your watch. >> My watch. >> Yeah, you were there. >> No, you were there. >> Where? >> Put the line on the salaries. >> I was in a different job. I was not. >> But you're on. But you're at the university. >> I was at the university leadership. One of the vice presidents. I was one of the vice presidents. Yes. For research and innovation. [laughter] >> Yeah. And we have all the other vice presidents here. Several of them as well. So >> I I think this just
118begs the question though, like I hope you dive into the financials very soon, right? Cuz it's is not only this part, right? Resident non non-resident, but it's also we talked we asked about fees, right? What is the fees that we're funding? What is student housing charging? like she was very hesitant about doing student housing, right? It all mixed into this, right? >> Yes. >> This is probably my number one priority for the finances of Manoa, the scholarship accounts. >> That's not what you told me the last time. I'm just kidding. >> I I didn't tell you anything. [laughter] And why would I tell you? >> You're kidding. >> He doesn't tell me anything. I have to call him and ask. Okay. Are we done with the scholarships? Can we move on? >> Yeah. >> Okay.
119Okay, let's talk about our um artificial intelligent AI. So, do we have >> uh I have with me uh Ena Ena Wonka. >> Oh, good. We get to meet her. >> Hello. >> Very nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you all. So according to the business news integrated uh business Jews they talk about this uh integrated and teach IIA and the uh to launch fully online degree program. So can you tell us about what what your role is and what's the goal and what the projected outcomes might be? >> Sure I would love to. Um I was hired as a chief academic technology innovation officer. >> When was that? >> Um in 25th of August 25th. >> August 25th. Okay. >> Yes. And in general my role is very strategic. I uh help
120uh senior leadership to really shape up the AI strategy with concrete goals to uh build um an AI governance framework to forge public private I mean partnerships with our industry partners as well as with with local organizations as well as to um promote AI strategic priorities. And since I started, I've been on this listening tour because I'm very new and I wanted to learn how AI is actually showing up across different campuses. Um how AI has been used and what are the concerns of faculty, students and staff and I have been engaging in variety of campus um directly with the campuses in conversations. Um, >> campuses, you're talking about Hawaii campuses. >> All of the 10 campuses, all of the 10 campuses. As a matter of fact, I had a conversations with six of them
121and I'm still like this is an ongoing effort, right? That is informing how we can move forward in a more coordinated way. So the learnings that um and I would like to mention that um I was also collaborating with the um vice president of research and innovation um to launch a systemwide AI survey that really um we collected 300 responses from all all around all across the campuses. Um and what we have realized at a system level is that AI is really happening very unevenly across the campuses and we really need to work on creating a coordinated approach and um one of the um kind of the projects since I started was to launch um and co-chair an AI planning group. This is a cross-campus cross um uh cross-campus cross-disciplinary I would say um advisory
122group um that uh consists of um um well uh faculty um senior leaders, administrators from across the 10 campuses and they have a goal to really not uh prescribe AI policies or to um um you know um their goal is to give recommendations to the president and to um you know we know that AI conversations are happening all around. uh to support their work. We started to uh launch also a task forces uh which um have a particular goal um to really look into a specific area of AI and do a deep dive like for example in October we launched a task force on teaching and learning. we started to meet um every month and to design um the deliverables in the next six to eight months. Um within this task force we have subgroups
123who are uh really looking at AI literacy and how AI fits within the curriculum. Assessing what are the needs of faculty um in terms of guidance and use cases. looking at what is the techn technology landscape um that and the available tools that can help um teachers as well as instructors looking at what are the also the skills um that needs to be taught um in regards to AI and so this group will provide recommendations um to the planning group we have also launched another task force um on Hawaiian values and cultures we started this task task force in December whose role is to really explore and um um explore how Hawaiian values, cultures and language can be carried and protected in context of AI. So we have representatives from all the different 10 campuses
124within this task forces. And the idea here is to really create recommendations, share best practices and inform um um campuses on some of the approaches they can take to really direct their AI initiatives and projects that are happening. Um this year we are also uh moving forward actually not this year this spring we have a concrete deliverables I mean I have a list of projects we are advancing um systemwide launching a systemwide website is very important to keep really everyone within all of the 10 campuses transparent about what is happening at AI systemwide level and um this particular website will launch the name of the task forces will um really um help people to understand what are the outcomes of some of these uh task force meetings. Um we will plan to also have a
125resources um to increase AI literacy um and um building on that um really create information and resources for everyone to be informed. When you say AI literacy, who is this for? For just the campuses or is this for the >> for students? For students, faculty and staff, we're looking all across. What are the skills? What are what is the knowledge that is needed? Uh assessment needs to be done and then from the task force, right? Um and um recommendations would be formed. >> How long how long is it going to take for you to complete your assessment >> for six months? Six to eight months. This is very short. When do you expect to launch your website? >> Oh, the website will be launched by the end of February. >> Okay. So, as of right
126now, uh you got here in August. You've spent five months on a listening tour. You've taken a survey in which 300 people have participated which triggered the planning group. Uh the task force and then another task force who apparently is made up of faculty, senior leaders and administrative people. Correct. >> Right. Correct. >> Yes. And it's been recognized and I think you know president has said it herself. I mean what AI is doing to higher education I mean it is it's disruptive. I mean it is definitely something that's happening right now. University of Hawaii is in many ways at the forefront and we're trying to understand how it it is going to impact uh you know our institution of higher learning going forward. So with the work that that Ena is doing is to kind
127of lay that framework and that road map on how we are going to integrate it at every level, the student, the faculty, the governance and everything because >> I mean I see the community in there >> and the and the community and the community as well as industry too as well because we have to prepare the students that are graduating out of the university for for work that is essentially going to require it. It could be anything, you know, it could be finance, it could be it could be even clerical, but AI is going to permeate. I mean, there's discussions that that AI could conceivably be a gened requirement going forward, right? So, these are the things that are happening, I think, in the AI world that that we need to be prepared for going
128forward and that's the work that >> Yeah. So, if the task force and planning groups are made up of faculty and senior leaders and admin, why do we need you? Um I am providing strategic advice also a coordination and alignment between different stakeholders. Um I also um actually met with local employers here. Um some representatives from Hilton, others are consulting companies like um P um Pacific um let me just make sure that I'm pronouncing it right. Um the name are Pacific Point Nimble Brain. I also met with the department of commerce consumer affairs with the chief data officer here just to really understand what they're looking in terms of employers what kinds of knowledge uh their employers need to help in terms of AI and through this conversations um es especially through the um um
129the listening tour and the survey um it really came to our attention that um there is no shared um AI baseline understanding across the campuses. This is why I also started to develop uh an AI online course to really help our students, faculty and staff to gain practical knowledge of AI. We will release the um course between February and April. It is consisting of four modules. Um one is um really about what AI is, what is not. What are the tools that um current local organizations are using in the use cases and scenarios as well as how to use AI in a responsible way, how AI has been also um used in teaching and learning and we're developing that in help with the local organizations as well. So, don't you think we're a little bit
130kind of past that as far as how to use AI, the negative and positive impacts? Do you think society here in Hawaii has kind of had a handle on it? I mean, I have kunas that use AI and chat GPT. I find it hard to believe that students will need to be trained on the basic operational functions of AI. >> I think there is um an ongoing effort because um there are definitely different changes, right? Um there are different tools and different functionalities. We have to be updating our guidelines and policies. Um and I think it's uh the ethical how we are can ethically using uh different tools is something that industry is really looking right now uh to have as a skill from their employees. >> What does that mean ethically? Ethic means can
131we really have humans um overseeing decisions like humans are in the loop right there is a framework um ethically means also um protecting private information personal identifiable information being transparent when models are for example developed they need to be tested for biases right for um and other security issues. So every organization is identifying their ethical principles and guidelines but usually those are as I mentioned around transparency human oversight and those things um need to be taught because I have heard from um students they don't know uh really what is accept acceptable to be used and what not and employers really really are looking now to um uh to create jobs for people who understand this ethical concerns. I mean ethical um compliance is becoming like the new um competitive um advantage for organizations. That is
132a big issue moving forward with AI. How we manage it? How we manage it in a way that doesn't harm people. And through this task forces, we really would like to find the right principles that can guide our decisions moving forward and prepare our students to meet the demands of the um economic you know um market. >> What in your opinion would be the worst way to use AI as far as your students are concerned? um without any understanding of what is acceptable. I mean a lot of the students are asking um can we use for example chat GPT for assignments right and how can we use it within different um academic settings. Um and I think the worst thing is not to explain them that they have to be really protective and read what
133is acceptable, what is not acceptable. Um usually um um universities have sometimes enterprise licenses that go that protect information right but if you are using a generic tool then you have to be very very careful of how are you using the information because these tools you're sharing you are sharing information uh and you don't know how your information would be governed and whether there will be a data breach. I think we're a little past the mark as far as uh sharing information. I mean, we've got al algorithms that track our websites and what we search and starts feeding us ads. So, I I I'm trying to find where exactly this fits in with the generation who is using chat GPT no matter what. I use it no matter what. Plenty of people are using >>
134but they don't know the um also the limitation of it and what are some of the new threats, right? I mean right now there's a lot of um different kinds of attacks um um even like there are agents AI agents that can actually intercept different data um so it's all about >> hackers >> yes hackers they're like um human behavior I mean we're vulnerable right we're the weakest link in the cyber security chain in general but I think it's just really being awareness of um also that um there are a lot of hallucinations right with the uh Chad GPU Gemini and so um yes we're changing and technology is evolving but a lot of these tools are offering also some kinds of procedural very lengthy answer I don't know if you have tried recently but
135if you're asking for ideiation or an answer now Chad is providing this like uh a memo of long answers right this is not helping with really um thinking with AI really like um amplifying our uh creative and cognitive skills. So how do we teach students really um to use it in a way that will help help them with concepts? >> Let me jump where she's going on this and it's a concern that I raise is that uh we're kind of late to the party, right? um the community, the businesses as AI has been introduced to the community. I mean, it's been there all the time, but it's not been in in the general general public till several years. Um that the university is supposed to be the leader in providing these uh this information safeguards,
136what's ethical, what's not ethical. uh but some of the professors a majority of professors have not even embraced AI to this day have not embraced AI and so while our students and our our teachers and businesses are out there trying to make sense of all of this there is nobody there until right now that you're starting this and I'm not putting this necessarily on you because you weren't here with the previous administration but you know for a university that says we're R1 and we're getting $700 million worth of research yet somehow the research did not embark on, hey, AI is coming, guys. Hey, AI, you folks need to be in in front of the ball and not wait five, six years later to say, oh, now we're putting these working groups together. Now, we're going
137to be out there because again, there it's already out there with good or bad um bad habits already been been um uh adopted and yet the university is lagging behind. Um so let me ask you so how are you uh working with the community college and their AI efforts? So each community I mean um the community college and all of the different campuses have different initiatives and I had conversations to understand where the efforts are and I agree that there should be more coordinated effort to really kind of keep the inventory open and the discussions ongoing. Um but you >> point to a specific a specific program and a specific um community college that you're working with to coordinate this Um I am uh currently um not managing their efforts. Um things have been highlighted
138um of what other in you know campuses are doing. We have a representative uh from the community college and our task force. Um but um >> but you said you've done all these listening tours and you've been to all these college. So is there any specific college that is working on AI a specific project? There are many different colleges that are working on many different um like for example there is a the business school is launching a pilot of AI innovation lab um and other uh projects uh but those are campus specific. We bring awareness and opportunity. One of my goal now is to create this like systemwide network, a platform to build this community of practice, coordination, visibility of those projects um so that uh we understand even how we can scale those efforts
139across different campuses. >> But I'm not managing them. I'm just trying to really create the platform in the community. Um but if this is if this is an a project for the entire university then if a campus is using state monies for a program we don't want to see one here one there we want to see that it's coming together um so let before I ask um Kahel to come up so what is your you have an office AI office or >> yes it's a newly established office office of academic technology innovation office just you right now. >> Um it's uh we just established the office when I first came in and I have three part-time um employees that are supporting my work um for this semester and they have a very particular campus technology
140experience and capacity to really uh help me. Um but we haven't formalized a structure or teams yet. >> And the and the budget for your office is how much do I have a budget for that office? >> I think someone else will answer that question. >> Right now the budget is uh is between two to three million but what Ena is doing and what the positions that she has right now are people that exist at the campus level and have been essentially redeployed. So, we're accounting for them in terms of >> So, where were they before? >> Um, I think one person was uh was within the community college. Uh, >> and we don't need them anymore. So how why would we even have they're they're um splitting their time because uh these are individuals
141that you know have the expertise or and have the knowledge uh for the work that ENA is doing to try and implement these these systemwide initiatives going forward. So it's more of a redeployment of existing resources versus the establishment of a brand new budget, but we're accounting for that. >> Yeah, that's good. Um but in business Pacific business you said that uh to launch a fully online degree program. So is that your major major role or is it to coordinate across all the campuses and bringing AI like you explained to us or is it to do the degree or is it both? Um so I am in my office right now is developing as I mentioned an AI online course which is a short introductory course. I am I'm not sure about the rest of
142the programs that have been brought up at the at the news but that's what I'm um responsible for. >> But you did go to all the campuses and you did a listening tour. >> I did. Yes. >> Okay. And over what period of time was that? from when I started. This is an ongoing effort and as I mentioned, we're really trying to bring visibility um in our AI inventory and experimenting also to create a dashboard and try to add that dashboard within our website. >> So, what percentage of your time is spent here in Hawaii versus um out of state? >> Um 100%. >> 100% here. >> Yes. >> Sure. >> I based on what I hear. So maybe I u would like to actually offer an explanation. Um I moved in Hawaii in September
143and during my tenure I had to actually travel due to unforeseen family emergencies. Unfortunately I had to resolve this issue which um required me to travel briefly. Now since the issue has been resolved I'm here. >> Okay. Well that's good to know. But you when you say you're here 100% it it didn't pro it didn't go along to what you know this is a small place. Hawaii is a small place and and people talk a lot. So I just want to >> yeah I just want to be transparent as well and >> and if your program is getting two to3 million um we will definitely start nitpicking. Um just circling back really quick uh to that position with your uh three part-time staffers. >> Um where is your physical office? Um at the ICT campus
144at the Korea road >> 2520 in Manol. Yes. >> Not in Bachmann. >> No, not in the back. No, >> we were in the WH web meeting. She said you in Bachman Hall. No, >> no, it's it's in it's in it. >> It Yes. Building. >> Okay. Well, she did say in her office. >> So, she said >> she she said [clears throat] >> the question was posed where is she housed? And >> in my office. I mean I think housed in terms of organizationally >> organizationally she's housed under the president's >> well I think it's physically because I asked the question about >> is she here so well anyway that's water can we call um Cahel >> okay >> thank you >> no no you're not done okay I'll get >> okay [laughter] >>
145so have you met have you met with him >> yes and you talked about your program. >> Yes. Briefly. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, that was what I was getting at and and I was surprised you didn't specifically because the legislature has only appropriated for one AI program with his workforce and she's one. And so, with you not mentioning it, it makes me wonder, you know, where have who have you been talking to? Because we've only had one and we gave a million dollars, which is why we we know this program. And we want I want to know I'm sure the committee wants to know is how are we coordinating this and we don't want to duplicate it and if you're there then why do we need you or vice versa? >> I know this
146is specifically on workforce >> but again if we're doing a whole AI then we need to incorporate it and and [clears throat] make sure that the funding that we're spending is not going to you know it's not going to be duplicated at some point or Yeah. So I I mean our project is a AI project. So using AI to improve information access and sharing. >> Isn't that exactly what she said that she's supposed to be doing or is doing? >> Yes. I think her I mean I'm not going to speak for her but ours is pretty specific. Hers is right now across our campuses we have all kinds of AI things happening right now. That's why we want to >> with faculty with academic senates with all kinds of different groups >> and she's the
147person to bring together the system initiatives. This is probably one initiative under the larger umbrella of all of them >> right >> that has a specific purpose. So her I think hers is more instructional >> and ours is more information access and as a AI tool for our students, faculty and also the community. Well, that worries me when you say, "Oh, hers is more instructional. Ours is more I mean, shouldn't there be a current?" >> I mean, effort they can use, but when I mean instructional, it's sort of like I mean, I come from Maui College, right? So, faculty are figuring out how to use AI and how to manage AI in their classrooms. I mean, they have been doing that for years. What's coming to head is sort of the collaborative effort to maybe
148align some of those initiatives across the campuses. So like in the classroom like how do you teach English 100 and how do you manage the use of AI when you're trying to teach somebody to write and they can go into chat GPT and get you know what I mean? So it's those kinds of instructional strategies I think that um we're trying to figure out on a very that's the sort of simplest application of AI but it's one thing that we're managing. >> So you had submitted an RFP to create the interface. >> Yes. >> Right. and it posted Monday I think. Yes. >> Okay. So, is that also a resource that she will be using or how do how does her role integrate into your role or it doesn't? I mean, how does your role
149integrate into hers? Yeah, >> I think at some point probably in the um the process that we are in now for the RFP um we posted the RFP then we will get submissions and then we have to review um the submissions to of course select the vendor and that is something that probably [clears throat] um will involve somebody from her office or herself in to help us sort of analyze the submissions to figure out what vendor is the best vendor to move forward with. >> Okay. Because you guys were you guys were planning your system before her. >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. So, what was your plan if she wasn't here? Like you guys would have probably figured it out, right? >> Yeah. And I I guess our the the our understanding of the million
150dollars was not for AI application in the instructional areas. Our understanding was that they wanted a tool >> Yeah. that could be used by anybody basically [clears throat] um to access information on education pathways from the high school into the 2-year into the four-year along with all the other um applications that somebody would want to access if they're looking for employment, right? So they can >> Shouldn't that be part of that program? Because there's all these working groups. So how are you your program dovetailing with some of these working groups? this particular tool um >> because it's it's a tool but it's going to be a tool for everybody pretty much. >> Sure. Right. >> Sure. >> Right. >> So it's an AI tool. >> Mhm. So again, we we need what we're trying to
151get here and why asking you these questions is not clear in our minds as to what is the funding going for and whether or not there'll be duplicate programs or whether or not we're efficiently using and who exactly is going to be the one to tell us what what's going on and the the fact that uh needs to be the point of the spear and needs to be ahead of the rest of the community so that you can guide the students, guide the teachers, the faculty, the public school administrators and even legislators about AI, >> right? And and how it should be used and what what's ethical and what's not ethical and the fact that, you know, whatever you you write into into chat GPT will stay in the system and they will grab whatever
152you're saying and they will send it out. I've argued with chat GPT, by the way, because they gave me wrong information and I said, "Are you sure?" Because, "Oh, you're right." that but you know if you don't correct them then they have the wrong information and that's what information they're going to spit out to somebody else that ask a similar question. Um but again I you know I've learned this through through you know trial and error but these are stuff that a lot of people out there have no clue about and how the university getting ahead of this uh so that you know whether it be night classes for for adults for working adults whether it be you know just other other ways of of um offering some kind of workshops to the general public
153and or stuff like that. How is a university going to >> Yeah. No, thank you so much. These are so valid concerns and I have to tell you the world of AI so messy. Everybody right now is trying exactly to figure out how to put the right, you know, governance, how to really coordinate efforts, how to manage AI and teams together. And this is exactly what we're trying to do. >> By the time you do that, it's going to be outdated because it changes so fast. Right. >> It is changing. Yes. But that's why we are trying with smaller efforts right now with this. For example, online uh course that we're launching, right? Um then the task force will have a more concrete recommendation plan. I'm also uh trying to build a community of practice
154and really um kind of solidify what this campus engagement look like to really hope that we will not have a duplicative uh efforts and that's a big undertake. Uh one of this um deliverables is as I mentioned is to build a dashboard and really to keep everybody informed but you can't keep them informed just like by survey right there has to be a more coordinated platform. So, those are kinds of pressing issues that keep me at night and there are no no straight answers and I'm trying to be as fast as I can and I really appreciate the opportunity to collaborate with you to keep you informed. >> You know, to hear you say that there are no straight answers is problematic because you are coming in and you're supposed to be the experts, right?
155The expert. You're supposed to tell us where there are loopholes and where we need to tighten up. And right now with your position and have already started your um interface uh process, I feel like I feel like the university is just trying to make your position work to make it work. And it's coming with a heavy $3 million budget. And so I I I I'm trying to understand what is the negative impact if we didn't have your position. I think that society would figure it out. I think that we would go on. It could potentially make your program a little bit more difficult because what you were doing was creating an access to the data. The student could come, they can get it, they can get all the information. Now, we're adding on another piece
156which could potentially make it more complicated. So, creating a dashboard, um I don't know necessarily, >> well, I'm just pointing one of the uh deliverables, right? But um there should be a strategic oversight and as I mentioned coordinated action and um I have been working in the industry I have 10 more than 10 years experience within product and innovation. As I mentioned things are really changing very fast. Um what we really need to do is keep the conversations and have a shared understanding of how we're moving forward. That starts with having a shared knowledge of AI. >> What's this? I think it starts with you informing us like you can start by giving us a list of these uh working groups, which group groups are doing what, who's on the groups. Uh you can do
157that by letting us know what your goals and what what your your steps calendar and what the outcomes that you're going to have. I think if you can provide that to us and how it dubtales into the community colleges as well in the community then it'll give us a better understanding of what's going on but without that kind of feedback and communication then you're going to have people questions a lot of questions and even then we're probably going to have some questions so >> thank you I will follow up with information as >> yeah I'm really curious to know how this also impacts our DOE students students who are um learning AI in learning to get on probably by without their parents' knowledge and you know all of these things. So how do we bring
158in the DOE and who are the people in the work group? Does it include DOE people? um so that we can make sure that our youngsters are trained early to recognize that information can be misused. >> Can you get that part of that? You're going to put to the question. >> Okay. Cuz yeah, we're not going to answer that all today. >> Okay. >> That's good. >> I know it's a lot, but thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. I know time is fleeting. We have quite more to go. Why don't we talk about uh sports or um NIL uh our director's been sitting there patiently. Uh so uh thank you for your report. Uh members, I think we did share this report with you as well. Um so I guess the first question that
159I have is the amounts that is on what your report on January 27th 2026 report is these amounts before or after the fees to the foundation. Uh first of all, good afternoon, Chair Kim. Good afternoon, Vice Chair Kadani and members of the committee. Uh Matt Elliot, director of athletics for the University of Hawaii, Manoa. Um these are the amounts that came in. So before fees, these are the totals that came in. >> So then what would the what is it 5% that they take? >> I think I believe that is the [clears throat] standard fee. Yes. I don't know if that applies to every single transaction here. There's >> It does, right? It does. >> Yeah. Every single dollar that they take. 5% was it 10 5%. >> So okay so this fig this numbers
160have to be adjusted because this is not exactly what you actually who have to spend correct >> that is correct. >> Okay. Um can you explain post date and trans transaction date? I guess trans stands for transaction. I think that's just a system. I don't know exactly that report, but I think it's just the system of transaction is when I I believe the gift would have [clears throat] been made and then post is when it is into the system. [laughter] >> Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the person donated [clears throat] it on August 21st, but it didn't get posted to August 27th, but then the one right after it was got it on August 25th, but posted on August 27th. So you have some lag and then you don't have some leg.
161[clears throat] Is there a systematic >> um what we can do if if um clarification is needed on the differential between the two dates? Um we're very happy to clean that up. >> I'm just curious >> provide an explanation >> about that. And um this is boost the Bose fund. Uh is there a longer name to this because it doesn't say NIL but >> these are the funds that we created. So, prior to July 1st, there were no NIL funds at the in our athletics department. So, we created 22 Boost the Bow funds, uh, one for the athletics department overall and then one for each team. And all of these funds were created around by the time they were set up. Um, I think the earliest transactions are late August. So, I believe that's when
162they were first created and now they've been in place since then. >> Okay. So when you say 22 boost the bulls fund, what do you mean 22 boost? >> So there's 21 teams. Yeah. So each team has one and then one that's overall for the department. >> You call that NIL or just in general? >> These are just NIL funds. Correct. That's what the boost the Bose. It was just a nickname we came up with to label our NIL funds. >> So people know when they gave that is for NIL when they gave to boost the fund. >> That's right. Because we explicitly labeled it as the NIL fund. And if you go on the website now, you can see that the Booa Bose fund is for NIL and then we have the R team
163Hawaii's team funds and those are for operations. >> Okay. So when I see in the back Yep. >> Let me look at the back page. >> Um where 200,000 came from the men's basketball fundraising event, >> right? So is this money is going just to basketball or is it then goes spread out to everybody? >> That's just for basketball. >> So it is earmarked for basketball. That's right. NIL. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then there's um transfer donations in column B indicate dollars that were raised prior to July 1, 2026 and were transferred to NIL accounts $87,000. >> So where was that raised from? So those are just a assortment of accounts that were in cons in foundation. Yeah. They were not being used. >> I asked that question at the wham and I asked
164if you consolidated funds and you said no. >> Well, I said they weren't part of the 1.5 that I was telling you. These are addition to the 1.5. >> This is an addition to that. >> But the 1.5 is not even the full total, right? Because you didn't take out the 5%. >> I was just describing what we had raised. Yes, you're correct. We didn't. >> So the $87,000 is not It was not designated for NIL, but what was it designated for originally? >> It it was just from an assortment of foundation accounts. There may be a number of different foundation accounts. >> Foundation. This is your accounts that was consolidated. >> For the $87,000 account question, I'd have to go specifically and look at that if you don't mind. >> I don't have that.
165>> Okay. Well, that's what I had asked for and I >> we didn't get it because I think I added that when we sent the letters out. Um, questions, members, any other questions on the NIH. >> Yes. >> She's looking at it. >> Thank you. Uh in our info briefing, uh there was no documented ask of the uh 5 million. Uh did that get remedied? >> 5 million for NIL. There was a discussion about the 5 million for NIL. Did that get reme remedied? It wasn't in a bill. It wasn't in your folks budget briefing >> in the January 14th WHAM info briefing. So, uh, the 5 million request that was part of the board of regents request, uh, for the upcoming supplemental budget, that was not included in the executive supplemental budget that came
166down. It was, however, included in the board of regents request. So, so it's a two-step process. The board of regents prepares a budget. It goes to the executive to the governor's budget, but it didn't make it into but we have a statuto responsibility to tell you what the board of regents actually did request. >> So that's why the five get that already. Did we get that already? >> This is I think it's 17 15 million. Right. >> Correct. >> And that's the 5 million is embedded in >> the 5 million is embedded in that in that 15 >> in this amount. Get it? >> Correct. Um, so what is I think I asked this um as far as the the amount of increase in their athletic budget b due to perhaps contract increases, salary increases
167for some of the coaches that probably might be asking for that is to how is that fitting in because this 50 million5 So it practically leaves you 10 million. How is that all penciling out? >> So the additional 10 million is for general operations across the department. Categories such as too close. Sorry. [laughter] Categories such as nutrition, recruiting, travel, and those have been articulated. But the I think the the goal is to be able to supplement all of the other pieces of the operations in the department that we run to support our student athletes. Those are not for salaries. >> But you have a deficit already, right? So you you're the deficit is just being put on the side and then you're asking for this new money for current operations, but then you probably get
168a deficit again. Is that >> so the current deficit at least and the last accounting and I know there are individuals that could probably give you a little bit more detailed accounting for it. Right now uh I believe that the deficit is about 180,000. >> It was 160 2,000 last year. That's right. Y >> so uh and and the deficit essentially is being made up with again with the with the reserves that the that the university does have. So I think this particular request and what was included in the board of regents request was to try and get again uh the athletics department onto a path of more self-sufficiency in their operations. >> Follow um we talked about scholarships. Uh is the athletic scholarships part of that athlet um scholarship report that special. >> Yes.
169Yes, it is a special. >> Okay. So, maybe we can get a breakout on how much scholarships, athletic scholarships that we give out >> and any so scholarships are going to be increased because of AI or how what's the um >> that that is the opportunity. Uh so what we've said to our coaches is that as we raise money for NIL, you can apply that either to direct payments to the student athletes or to increase scholarships. So it's a strategic decision. Some teams have more scholarships than others, so they would like to add scholarships. Other teams have a lot of scholarships, so they would like to make the payments on top of the scholarships. So that's really a team by team decision, but you're allowed to do both. So the scholarships that allowed by the
170university um and if they choose each sport chooses to give more it has to come out of their added budget or I'm sorry I'm not follow >> all I was saying there is if we raise these dollars for NIL which we are raising and we allocate them to the individual teams then it's within the coach's discretion to decide if they want to use that NIL dollar for additional scholarships for that team or to pay the student who is already receiving a scholarship on top of it. So it could be an either or choice. >> And the NIL monies that you have raised already, those monies will go for the entire team and not necessarily a specific student. Is that correct or no? >> Right. So we have we've been raising money this year to pay
171our NIL commitments for this academic fiscal year. And they could be spread out. Each team kind of has their own fund and they could be spread out across the players or the individual student athletes as the coaches. >> But the money, the five million is going to go specific or that's also going to be a team. >> The five million would be distributed to the some of the teams, not all of the teams. That was kind of the breakdown decide if they're going to do it individually or not. >> How they would use it individually. Exactly. Right. Yeah. >> And what was another question that I was going to ask? So the 5 million is reoccurring and that's what you folks expect, right? To to be reoccurring. >> That's the request for now so that
172we can get to a place where we've established a foundation and and get to a place where we think we can be competitive. We would love to be in a place in a few years that that we didn't need that, but that's what we're >> So when you say get to a place, what does that place look like? >> I I >> you're not going to need the 5 million, >> right? So, our assessment is that we think we need $5 million to be competitive from an NIL standpoint today. Um, if we can do that and continue to have success as teams, if we work on our multimedia rights, if we're able to get a stadium where we're able to enhance dollars that come to us from uh game day operations, all of the different
173ways that we can grow revenue, new media rights contracts, in an ideal world, we would love to be able to generate every one of those dollars within the athletics department. That's what that's what we aspire to do. I I can't guarantee that, but that would be the the goal that we set for ourselves, >> right? But what's the real what's the reality? Because uh we've had a stadium, we've had the rights, we've had all of this over the years, and the department without NIL have been in a deficit continuously. >> Um so I don't see even if we get a new stadium, I don't see very much changing. So what is the likelihood of sustainability? And if the legislature cannot sustain giving you 5 million a year, >> then what what's what's the plan? I
174mean, >> the plan is all the things I just said. We have to raise revenues through ticket sales. We have to raise it through media rights deals. We have to raise it through multimedia rights, which is our corporate sponsorships. Um, and we have to raise it through philanthropy. So those are the avenues for us to all the avenues we have had over the the life of our sports program and they've grown and under certain coaches we've done better. >> Yeah. >> Under certain ads we've done better. So what's the I mean if you don't meet it based on based on past performance and I been doing this 43 years and so I've not seen that kind of ability to be able to generate those that kind of monies >> one program >> because you have
175competing interests competing areas of the university that is asking for funding and is raising funding on their own. You've got the community out there raising money for their nonprofits and other programs across the country, across the state. So, um yeah, what's the secret sauce? [laughter] >> The secret sauce is we got to have So, this is where the creating this foundation matters. Um the secret sauce in a lot of ways is having competitive teams and being at the top of the conference that we're in so that we can win championships so that we bring more people into our arenas. that corporate sponsors do want to invest in us. Uh a football team that goes nine and four like coach Chang and his staff and and our players did this year bring attention to the product.
176They bring sponsors into the community who want to support it. It allows us to be at the table for media rights negotiations which we're going into right now that can drive more revenue for us. So we have to stay competitive for us to have the opportunity to drive more dollars into these programs. Absolutely. >> Well, that's been the goal though. I mean, you've seen we were at our height with June Jones. >> So, I mean, it goes, you know, you got your height and the players leave and you know, competitive players don't stay in Hawaii. If they're born and raised here, they go to the mainland. You know, the Marcus Mariotas are not going to stay and play here. You got the now you got a portal that people can go in and out. And
177you got a good player or a marginal player who gets an opportunity, shows he's good, immediately the next year he's in the portal. So, you know, um I I just find it very difficult to understand or maybe I do understand it better than than most that that's not that that's a cycle, right? And to maintain that cycle, we've not been able to retain that maintain that cycle. And a lot of it is because our location in the middle of the Pacific are the fact that um we don't have the kind of exposure. Our our athletes don't have the kind of exposure. We don't have the kind of alumni. And I think we talked about this when you came to my office that we cannot be a UCLA. We don't have we don't have the alumni.
178We don't have the philanthropy um that some of these schools on the mainland have and our athletes are the good ones or the exceptional ones don't don't stay here and if they do stay they leave. I I agree with you that maybe we can't be at the same level as some of the powerful institutions that are out there, but I absolutely believe with everything that is in my soul that we can be extraordinary at the level that we're at. We have amazing athletes in this state and many of them do want to stay here. And right now in this new environment, it is a little bit of NIL dollars, but it is also we have a world-class institution. We have a culture that people want to be a part of. We have a community that
179loves these programs so intensely. A men's volleyball team played a division 2 school last week and we had 6,000 people show up there. We have better attendance. >> We've been doing that all these years. Come on. I mean, you know, I was at the height of the basketball five, the the Fab Fab Five all of them, right? But again, we want to do it again. I'm saying we need a sustainable program and I'm saying that these are the things and they come and go with ads. It come and goes with coaches. I'm sorry. That's that's the nature of it. So, what is it going to take for sustainability? And if we we can't raise it, then you know what what are we doing? Because we're in the same we're in the same league and you
180know we've got one winning season out of how many right coach Chang three seasons. It took three season to get where we're at. Fine. But then now that you know we may get another good three seasons, but what's going to happen? We're going to go through the cycle again. We were at a height with June Jones and it went down. I mean it it doesn't last. >> Sports sports is absolutely cyclical. You're going to win sometimes. you're going to lose sometimes, but if you build the infrastructure, if you build the program beneath it, and that's where these operational dollars. >> Okay. So, you're saying we've never built the built the I'm just saying in general that of course it is always going to be cyclical, but that's what we want to do is I believe
181my role as the athletics director is to come here, identify the ways that we can make this program extraordinary. We can pursue excellence in every way. People do want to stay here. They do want to be a part of this place. We lost very, very few student athletes in the transfer portal this season. And I think a huge part of that is because of the culture, because of the program that we had, because of the support we got where we sold out the last couple games, then we sold out the bowl game, then we win the bowl game. Student athletes wanted to stay and be a part of that. So that's where we have some momentum. We have some positive sort of um I don't know, whatever. I was going to say whatever we're going
182in the right direction and we just got to keep building on top of that. So I think our job as athletics is to go out and generate every dollar we can, but also be very transparent with you. And that's why we explained the $10 million AS for operations in five for NIL upfront for 2526 or sorry for 2627. This is what we think will allow us to be successful in the areas we've described. Student athlete experience academics where we graduate, reach out to the community, build programs for our kei and then win and win a lot. That's what we got to do. >> But you know there's competition for all those dollars right across the state. >> Absolutely. I totally respect that and understand >> that can't pay their electric bills. people that can't put
183food on the table and relying on the state for a lot of these funds. And so when they hear that we're giving money uh to athletes doesn't sit well with some of our constituents. So >> completely respect that and understand that. And I think that's where we do have this obligation, as we've talked about before, to create um economic report, you know, reporting that we're working on right now to show you data that shows investment in athletics will will be worth, you know, whatever it is coming back. When we send a a golf team over to Kauaii for a tournament and 20 other teams show up, that's five nights of hotels. That's 100, right? That's a hundred hotel rooms that they're using, that's food, that's parents coming to watch. Like there is real economic impact.
184that's generated by an athletics department. And it's our job, you know, I know this study was done in 2015, but it's our job now to try to collect that data and show you what we think it's worth now as well because I totally understand your point about the importance of each dollar. >> Thanks, Chair. Uh, how many uh current football players are you hoping to retain from the NIL funds? >> Um, so we Sorry, maybe ask that question again. >> Yeah. How many current football players >> are you hoping to retain and stay with the team? >> Y >> with this potential $5 million NIL funds. >> Oh, for next year. Um I mean our the way maybe just anecdotally I can say is that over the course of this past end of the season
185is that we looked at the roster. We wanted to retain, you know, almost everybody. There are a few that maybe is just not the right fit or it's a good time for them to transfer, but really less than five chose to transfer somewhere else over NIL because they they were able to get more dollars somewhere else. So that's a very high success rate and we'd like to maintain that. >> Sure. So we lost five already. So what would the remaining be that you would want to use NIL funds? >> Oh um well the roster is 105. um 85 are on scholarship and then about half I think are on an NIL deal. >> Okay. >> I'm not not 100% sure about that. >> Yeah. >> Well, the reason that I ask is because um >>
186uh when you were when you were talking about, you know, the team and the program and we're in a winning season right now. So, I think right now we want to keep the momentum. Um, however, I have a hard time believing that 50ish players uh is just going to transfer in the portal in January. Um, because if they didn't leave already, I have a hard time feeling that they're going to leave in the near future. Um, and so maybe they're not getting offered, maybe there's not an opportunity for them. Uh, but I want [clears throat] to be able to realistically if we have the talent here >> and that's going to reflect next season. Um, then we should already be winning already. Um, I don't think in the incentive to keep them here. They had
187the opportunity. The portal was open, right? It's closed now. And so I I think that if they had the opportunity to leave, they would have left already unless they're getting promised funds, which I don't think you guys would do something like that, right? Tell them, "Oh, you stay. We're passing. >> We have NIL deals with all a significant number of players. That's what I was saying. >> Oh, okay. Uh, how much is that? >> We went through that. We went through that process of they had the choice to leave or stay and we were able to retain a significant number of those players. Yeah. >> Okay. Got it. Thank you. >> So, what was that budget? Is that the budget you just raised? >> So, we we set a budget Yes. We set a budget
188approximately $2 and half million dollars to try to retain that team and build that team. >> Okay. So, the team that is currently staying, you spent 2.5 million. >> That I I don't know for sure that's what we spent because we're still in that process. But we that's the budget we set to try to Yeah. >> Okay. But you didn't raise that much yet. >> You intend to raise >> We're in the pro that's what we're trying to do. That's where the 1.5 is us trying to get to be able to cover that by the end of this fiscal year. That's right. >> Okay. What if you don't? >> We're going to work every single second we can to do that. >> No, but what if you don't? That's we had to make that choice.
189Try to retain these players or let them go. Are >> you going to reig on the players or what are you going to do? >> No, absolutely not. So either funds would have to come from >> hopefully we have surpluses other places or if not then we wouldn't meet our budget goals. >> And may I just add one thing one thing Senator Kim in terms of structure. Um the foundation historically has had one person assigned to athletics and um this year we put another FTE. We have two and we have plans to add a third person. Um so the the foundation I feel uh really could be doing more and and should be doing more to support athletics given the the grassroots community support of of um of our teams. So it's hard to speculate
190on what if. Um I I would say but I know that the certainly the foundation will do everything it can to meet meet the commitments of um the expectations of the community >> and you folks have tried to do that all the time not just this year right >> all the time that's correct >> and you we have what we have with your be giving your best all of the time >> the one caveat I might offer is that that was with one person and so we found there's a correlation with if we have good people in there and I I think we do. I think we have really good people. >> So, by adding two people, how much more money you think you'll bring in? >> It's hard to pinpoint an exact figure. >>
191Do they actually raise the money or other people raise the money? >> Both. Both. So, in the Ways and Means Committee, you correctly pointed it out that um we we can't be possessive about who raises what. It's a community effort. So, um we have to share credit because it's wrong to do otherwise. But yeah, we we actually have to hustle a lot more than we have been. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, what I'm hearing is build it and they will come, but how long is it going to be before >> that happens? >> Yeah. >> I mean, what what have you experienced with or seen with other institutions programs? >> That's a fair question. >> Yeah. I think if we're talking about NIL, this is the first year we've been able to do this
192within the within the collegiate within the institutional setting. So, we're watching what our peers are doing. The information is not necessarily very transparent. It's very competitive to say what you are and are not spending. Um, but we believed based on the data that was available to us and what we saw in terms of budgets across the Mountain West and and peer and sort of peer conferences that if we targeted a $5 million NIL total for across our teams that that would allow us to be competitive. And we would that's why we're being very upfront and saying that that's what our goals are. We whatever dollars we get if it's possible to get dollars from the state we are still going to spend every second possible trying to raise those dollars. >> Do you have the
193amount but you don't have a timeline and that's what I'm asking is is there a time when other programs have had the funds to do this and they have developed a a program where they are able to attract players. >> Yeah. So that is that's all started since July 1st. This NIL fundraising at the institutional level has just started across the country. >> Okay. not answering my question. My question is >> looking at other programs, how long has it taken for them to build a program where players are interested in coming and come to us and rather than us having to do all the recruiting and they leave within one or two years? >> Yeah, I I don't know the answer to that. So, I'll have to get back to you on that. >> Sure.
194Um, if your if the NIL funds are going to retain the players, I mean, I don't see how that could make the players any better. I think the players are the best that it's been, and I I'm not seeing this program, giving the fund, given the funding would get any better. Um, so I feel like the players are playing at its best and I don't know if incentivizing them to stay is going to make them any more better than they already are. Do you disagree? Do you think giving them some funding would maybe get a better play out of them? >> Um, no. I don't I don't think it'll make them better players. >> Okay. So, so my point being is that we're going to be paying these players, but they're already maxed out at
195the best that they can be. So, are we just playing them to stay to settle for substandard? >> Oh, I don't think they're substandard at all. I think they're extraordinary. I think our student athletes are amazing. >> Yeah. Um, extraordinary is a word. Uh, but I think the point that I'm trying to make is that I think we've seen the best of what this team can do and I think that they are giving their absolute best. Now, if you were to say that with this $5 million we would be able to recruit other exceptional players from other exceptional teams, then I think that that would merit a discussion. But right now, we're going to be paying towards a program that we already seen what they can do, right? >> So, it's a combination. uh it's
196recruiting and retaining. So the money is used both to retain the players on the current roster, but then we also had to go out into the transfer portal ourselves and bring students to the team to add to the team. So we did bring in new students with those dollars as well. So it's both. >> Thank you for that. That makes sense. How many uh recruits did you bring in >> through the transfer portal? Um good question. I don't You're just talking about football. I don't know the exact number. It's in the somewhere between 10 and 20 was was added to the roster, I believe. >> Okay. Uh with that being said, I I it's excruciating for me to hear your folks are really struggling in fundraising. Um there's no doubt in my mind that it
197would build a great program, but I think you folks have maxed out on your fundraising efforts and so I would hate to see you folks come back in 2027 and keep asking for more money for this. So if if I might make a plug for Matt here, I think the the totals year to date right now for fundraising for athletics are 4.6. That includes the 1.6 in NIL. The total fundraising last year, of course, that did not have NIL because there was no NIL at the end of last year. So with five more months to go, we have um the last year total was um 3.6. So we're already at 4.6 six. Last year we ended at 3.5. >> And we had a losing season for the past three years, though. Come on. >> This
198is the first year we have a winning season. So that's part of it. >> It is. That's true. >> Yeah. So no matter who was in the seat, that's who we had a winning season. So that makes a lot of difference. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Okay. Not Thank you. We are going to keep the best for last. Uh we are going on CIP. But before I even say that though, I did get the out ofstate employees report. I think members, I did send it to you folks and I'm not going to dwell on that. I want to get a report um whether or not you reviewed the list to see uh about the should out of state employees be continued and have you folks revisit this policy and what is the results of
199that? >> We will do that. Yes, I I know that the list has come down, but certainly would like to know what the what the policy might be for and these are employees that live outside of Hawaii, but is on the payroll. Just so people understand when I say out of state employees >> and we are um working on that policy and and we'll have something for you uh very shortly. >> Okay. Okay. CIP Okay. You want to start? Where do you want to start? How about we start with >> an easy one? How about I ease into it. [laughter] >> Okay. Then you choose. You're You're in charge of your fate. [laughter] >> Oh, I don't know. It's a crapshoot. So our our request, how about we start with our request? So I I
200think the request that came in uh chair uh so we are asking for approximately 130 million I believe in uh funding for our CSG request. Uh and >> actually the board approved the you folks asked for 283. Yes, >> we asked for 283. >> I know more than you. >> Well 130 is what we ended up getting after. >> Well, you have you don't have it yet. >> Well, [laughter] I'm sorry. We don't have it yet. >> We don't have it yet. >> Yes, >> it's in the governor's budget. Doesn't mean >> it's it's in the governor's budget and and um as as we are here to uh to flee. I mean uh if you have any questions with regards to it. I mean there are very specific things that we want to address. You
201know, obviously the rim funding is very important. Um you know, as was uh indicated in the past, you know, we need 100 million just to maintain current state right now. So, um I think Jan can talk a little bit about more on what we're doing with the deferred maintenance program. >> Okay. Before you even go there, what you know that's a concern. You need to maintain that funds yet. You folks have taken that funds and used it for something other than renew and improve and modernize, right? I mean, you've taken money from there to do chain field. You've taken money shortfall monies on other CIP projects and use that to backfill. Um, so that's the concern and we do have a bill I have a bill that says you can't do that that you can
202use uh rim money for rim and not to do CIP projects. >> Understood. And and I think going forward meeting with that uh meeting with the legislative intent in terms of what the rim funding was for um you know I I can't speak of what how the decision was made. I know that there was um uh there was a need to address the issue upon the closure of Aloha Stadium and having uh you know a a venue for the for the university to play at. But um you know I think as we go forward the intention really is is rim to be for rim. >> Yeah. And it's not that because there's a need that you're going to you're going to violate certain policies or certain rules like procurement and so forth. That does not
203give you the right to do that just because there's a need. >> Understood. Understood. And and um that will not happen as as I am there. >> You're going to be there for a long time. >> It's been two week or two months. [laughter] >> It seems like a long time. You're having fun, right? Okay. Miss Jan, what do you want to do? You want >> um do you do you want to do a little bit more on Chingfield or >> Sure. Okay. >> Okay. So, I think we talked about reinforcing Ching Field, right? 2.3 million. >> Is that what the amount was? What is it going to Well, let me ask you, what is the cost to do the reinforcement for Chingfield? So we um annually inspect Chingfield and right now um our where
204we previously might have said we needed anywhere between 1 to 3 million um right now it's looking at something like closer to maybe half a million um a year with replacing the turf in 202 um for 2 million. But other than that, it should that should take us through uh 2029 when we are confident that Aloha Stadium will be completed and we will be having our football games there. >> It's 2 million 2028. >> Yes. >> So 2 million plus you're saying half a million? >> Yeah. So probably Yeah. >> 3 million a year to to maintain Chinfield. So the total Yeah. And I the total projected between now and 2029 is right around 3.6 million. >> 1.6. That's all. >> Three. Three. 3 3.6. 3.6. >> Which includes um replacing the turf. >> Okay.
205That's total. >> Yes. Total. >> We got to add a couple million then, right? >> Track record. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. [laughter] >> That wasn't meant to be. >> Okay. We'll take it. >> Yes. >> So, so this is not a negative. Thank you. >> Have you have you folks looked at and maybe the ad is going to jump in on this, but have you folks looked at will we be making more money with the new stadium or being at Chainfield? >> Cuz there's pluses and minuses, right? There are pluses and minuses and and I think in terms of the way that the the relationship is going to work between Aloha Stadium and the university. Um I that will have to be determined in whatever agreement that we end up uh you know having
206with the stadium going forward because in many ways we're a I would say we're a tenant right of we're going to be a tenant of the of it and we're going to be bringing in you know our games and we're going to be making any revenue. So we have to have that negotiation with a law >> because you have to pay them something. >> We'll have to pay them some some portion. Correct. >> So you have a need you have a >> we we are not at the state where we're negotiating what the what that future arrangement is going to be between. >> Why not? >> Um I think they're still trying to figure out the the >> Yeah. >> Who the person is. So the um broad concepts have been discussed previously before I
207got here and and with other folks. We are talking now with the stadium authority about what a framework would look like going forward in terms of negotiating the specific details. That would really be with the once the stadium operator and the developer are fully prepared to do that. And based on the fact that they're still just, you know, designing the stadium, figuring out what the final product is going to look like, we can talk about the concepts of parking, concessions, ticket sales, suites, all those things, but the details are pre are premature. Okay. >> Okay. Moving on. So that gives you another easy one. So the cancer center um construction the the phase the new portion of it. So what's the status of that? >> It is complete. >> Okay. What's complete? >> The completion
208of the hooa I think is what it's called but the early clinical. >> Okay. What is it being used? >> Base first and second floor. >> And what is it? Is it fully housed? Fully used >> Mr. Provos? So, >> so uh the first floor in quarter I think on the second floor are complete >> and there will be an opening uh for the physical facility sometime in April. Uh that doesn't automatically imply that the facility will be open for operations. We need to talk to our health partners to understand and to our cancer center uh faculty and clinicians to understand what will be operational and when because there's a pharmacy. It is a medical facility. So we need to make sure that it is done properly and all compliance. >> Weren't there supposed to
209be possibly queens are going to be some of the space or so forth? Was it this floors or the other floors? Like >> there is some conversation on uh Queens leasing the third and the fourth floor on that facility. There has been a a lease that is negotiated. I'm not part of these negotiations, but there has been no final decision from either Queens or UAS whether this will happen. So the use of the first floor and part of the second floor right now is up in the air. So >> uh it is uh we need to make sure that oper you know before this is a clinical uh medical >> was supposed to be for the early clinical trials. >> This is supposed to be for the early physical uh early phase clinical trials. However,
210we would like to see also uh a little bit more traffic in the facility. So that's why we're talking to our health partners to see maybe we can have phase one and phase two clinical trials there. So and that's why it becomes more critical. >> But this is troubling. We've been asking this for 5 years as to this facility, who's going to use it, what the cash flow is going to be. Uh and yet here it is completed and we don't even know who's going to be. >> We know who's going to be. We got to make sure that it is done correctly. Right. The this is these are highly complex operations within the the medical school and the cancer center. >> So it just overnight it became complex. >> No, it's actually we knew
211it's going to be accomplished for a long time, right? >> So yeah, I would imagine that we've had a lot of time to work on it. >> Yeah. And and we've been doing that and we're getting there. >> Okay. Okay. Can we get a report in writing? We'll give you a report card. Thank you, Shannon. >> Okay. How about since you've been been fast at the draw, I'm going to just jump in. >> Yes, please. >> Early early child care center was supposed to move was supposed to move into the >> new Halane Hane. Right. And but they're not there, right? They haven't been moved, right? >> That's my understanding. >> Yes, they haven't been moved. the facility and the um the the space for the child for the early childhood early or early childcare
212center is available right now. It's just awaiting. It has to go through its licensing process and um and I'm sorry I do have with me Michael Shibata who is our director of strategic office of strategic planning and development that has been working on that particular issue but right now we are essentially just waiting for to for it to be licensed so that it can go in and the licensing process is with the department of human services. >> So why has it taken so long for the license? The building opened in August, correct? And now it's it's going on to February. So, what what's the problem? I know what the problem is, but I want to know what you're going to tell me is the problem. >> So, we're working with um uh Department of Planning
213and Permitting. Uh so, for the uh certificate of occupancy for the child care space, they've requested for some additional improvements be made. We were down to one final improvement, which is to the uh the door uh the doors for the building. Uh so once that um fix is is made, we're waiting for the part to arrive on island. Uh then the uh we can complete the final inspection for the building inspector for DPP and then from there the DPP inspector will issue a report to DHS and that will start the licensing window with them. >> And how long is that going to take? >> Uh it's a three uh the total period the total licensing period is 3 months with DHS. Um, we're hoping for an expedited, quicker review, but that's that is the the
214licensing window, 3 months. >> Okay. Now, did you guys anticipate this? >> Uh, we we were hoping for a quicker review uh and licensing review. Um, so we've been having to work with the DPP on on the fixes or the >> So, when did you start hoping? Uh well, we when the building when we opened the building for occupants to move in in August, we were hoping to get that process going sooner. Uh but you know, we've been working through >> So, did you only decide to move this facility? In August? >> When did you when was the decision made to move this facility into this building when it was occupied completely? >> I think it was always part of the the build the build. >> Exactly. So you knew way years in advance. Yes.
215>> That you were going to move in. Yes. >> So I don't understand how as devil and product puts it. Why is no one ready? I mean why are we not ready for these things knowing in advance that you need to get the licensing? Isn't it also the situation where you folks don't have enough room for the play area? Oh, the well I think first things first the the when we received certificate of occup occupancy for the entire building uh that came in August and so we were hoping that the licensing window could follow that. uh there was additional reviews specific for the child care space that we're have we have to go through and so we're still going through that with the city and so I think we're almost done and I think from
216there then we can begin the licensing window as it relates to um the outdoor play out uh outdoor play area we do have space required um both on-site and off-site uh for the licensing >> so they approved it >> cuz I was my understanding that was one of the sticking points You meet the requirements for the lensure. >> Yes. But we still need to go through that process. >> Yes. >> So you have to wait until until what to start the licensing. >> We need a we need the certificate of occupancy the CO who we call the CO >> before you can go into licensing >> that's been approved by the DPP and building inspector for us to start the licensing window. that report and it's a specific report from a inspector that specializes in
217childcare spaces that goes to the um the licensing um review. >> Okay. So, what is your new timeline um that you're going to be completely moved in and open >> the Well, we're hoping that the licensing window can start once the once the doors are fixed. So, I think we're we're planning we're hoping for that can be fixed within the next two weeks. So, so a door is keeping you guys >> Yes, unfortunately. >> One door. One door. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> How How is that possible? One door. Who's the engineering? Who's who's the architect on the >> Well, it's it's it's Well, the doors are there. I think what they're asking for is for a fix to one of the doors and how it's open. That's what it's coming down to. Uh the
218new timeline for once we get through that, the licensing is is May of 2026. I'm just getting trying to get my arms around the fact that this whole thing is hold held up because a door a door that should have been part of the whole planning process and engineering and and whatever it is that you have developers have to go through to make sure that all of these things are done according to spec. So how did this not this door not get to spec or whatever it is? >> Well, it was it was designed and constructed by to spec. I think this is a this is a interpretation of code uh interpretation of how the the the building codes are applied and so you have you know the designer who interpreted the code a certain
219way and then you have the DBP you know building inspector who's evaluating that based off the childcare use and is saying I want this I would like this ch this these doors to be fixed >> and when did you find out that the door needed to be fixed >> about [sighs] let's call it like give or take about a month ago. >> So a month ago and it's taking this long to to get it fixed. >> Well, we had they've actually been on site. They thought they had they thought they had the fix in mind and then when they evaluated the door, they determined that the part that need that the the part needs wasn't the right part and now they have to now they have to order the part from the mainland and has
220to be put on on island. Yes. If this was private sector, you know, people's jobs, people would get fired. This kind of stuff. I mean, it's just crazy, right? And only government only in government this kind of happens. >> I understand. But, you know, we're we're pushing and and trying to expedite this as quickly as possible. >> And the reason I and I need to I need to say this that I get frustrated is because I've I've I've seen this heard this happen time and time again. Somehow we don't get it. You know, we make the same mistakes over and over again. We make the same, >> you know, we don't plan ahead. We don't check, we don't check twice, we don't, you know, check three measure three times before you cut, stuff like that.
221Right. >> I I believe that there can be better coordination. Absolutely. I think uh as you go through permitting processes as well as certificate of occupancy processes you know you know having that understanding okay what really is you know required in the >> that's why we pay for these that's why you guys don't engineer it you guys pay an engineering company to do it right and then you pay for a consultant to oversee the engineering and then you use your own licensed engineers to oversee the consultant that overseeing the the the construction ction to be done, right? So, I mean, how many you see what I'm saying? I understand what you're saying. >> And yet, somehow somebody along the way it gets missed. So, what are we paying for? You know, >> I I completely
222understand your frustration in this in this particular case. >> Okay. But it's not just in this case, that's if this was the first time then. Yeah. But it's not. Right. >> Right. So, I'm just saying that I hope that >> I shouldn't say I hope we we should expect to have better planning, better projection. I mean, and we're paying these people millions of dollars. >> I understand. Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. No, I'm just getting started. Okay. So, the LG gave $50 million, right, for the for the child care. >> Uh the the school facilities authority SFA gave $10 million. 10 million, not 15 million, $10 million. And that $10 million is for to to move the facility, to run the facility, >> to build and construct the the facility, the the new childcare facility,
223>> and you wouldn't have built it otherwise. Uh well it made it m helped it helped the project because you know the other alternative was the devel you know the the developer Greyar and CHF Manoa would have built the child care space but then they would have likely requested the university to pay rent to to lease out the space. >> Okay. In addition to that uh supplemented this P3 project at a tune of $60 million 2 million yearly for 30 years to keeps the low rent. to keep the low rent to keep the rent low. >> It w it was a process to provide for rent abatement to keep the rents at a rate that would be affordable to the uh to the residents of the of the facility. >> But in the meantime, no
224Alani has set empty for eight years. >> That is u an issue that we definitely need. >> So would the 60 million have helped us do something about Hal Noani? the CC. Well, Hal Noelani at this point in time um the discussion is um is it needs to be basically uh >> I understand but wouldn't have $60 million help to do that. >> Um I I don't know uh in terms of >> how much money how much money have we asked for for Hal Noani? How much money did we ask for student housing? Just top of your head, how much money we >> 130. So it would have had minus 60 million, right? So it would have made a huge difference, right? >> It would have made a would it complete? Yes. I I would
225think Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean there would be significant improvements to Hal Nohilani. >> Okay. So we chose to to supplement rents in view of other other priorities. And now Holly, what's your what's your occupancy rate? The occupancy for Hallel County is about 78%. >> Okay. So, we're at 78%. I was told 70%. 78%. >> I mean, so it it's just trying to see where are the priorities because we're going to come to McCarthy Mall next as to when our priorities are. Um and and I think in terms of u and you know in terms of the product that's being provided uh halihane versus halohilani or even some of the other dormitories that exist within the existing student housing inventory um it does provide a different it's a different product right uh how >> yes
226but if you know the history of this as a no building if you know the history of it sitting vacant you know the history that you know it's costing us more because of whatever it is the UA uh did and that you had to go in there because of the cost going up to now put in a 60 million. So it's not just the 60 million. There's a whole history on how we arrived here and in the meantime while all of this was going on. No Alani was sitting there. Alani was sitting there. >> Yes. I think that was made abundantly clear in terms of the the fact that Hal Nohilani wasn't occupied for a long period of time. Correct. >> And I'm just I guess I'm looking at you know the big picture why
227who's whose job is it to oversee the overall picture as to where the priorities are um like do we do McCarthy Mall or do we do Hal Noani do we do we do um Hallean and give $60 million or do we I mean who's who's weighing all of that so that we we come to >> I think it's it's the prerogative of the of the leadership within uh uh within the uh system in order to make those decisions in terms of what the priority is and obviously in in conversation in terms of what legislative intent especially for appropriated dollars uh chair so I think it is it is it falls upon uh the uh leadership but also working with with the legislature too as well >> but there's a disconnect with the border regions as
228well >> you know because the border regions approved some of this I you know >> and and and I'm sorry I did not mean to leave out the board of regents but it's also you know the uh leadership in conjunction with the border regions you know kind of coming up and looking at that strategic priority in terms of how we >> but if the border regions have asked these questions that we've asked at the time it could we could have had a different result >> and you know I think that's part of the process at least what I'm learning in terms of when we present to the board of regents especially especially the long-term uh capital improvement plan going forward. And it's something that that I'm definitely hearing uh from you in terms of how
229do we prioritize and how do we engage and communicate with the board of regents? It's like, okay, these are our needs right now. Do you agree with them? Do you do you believe that we're going in the right direction? You know, these are the concerns that we've heard from the legislature, from the executive, you name it. and then kind of bringing them all together so that you know so that we're all right >> the expect everybody knows what we're going to >> but they should be they should know where we're at if I mean if they come to our meetings or watch us on video on TV or you know even paid attention then the border region should know what the concerns are um hopefully you're hearing the concerns and these are concerns we've been
230raising over the last administration um but it seems as though it falls on deaf ears and we're in this situation And you know, and if everything went well and you guys were on time, on budget, you know, all of this, then we couldn't say anything. But the fact that you're not, and the fact that you've had Ali Nolani sitting there for eight years and the president coming up and said he didn't know about it and then we find out that he didn't know about it because they had permits and they had plans and they nixed it. So those kinds of things does not sit well with us. >> Understood. And and I I can say from my perspective, our intention really is to change the narrative around that. >> I hope so. I really hope
231so with the new president, new leadership. But some of the things that I'm seeing and hearing worries me, you know, like more higher bureaucracy, um things like that. But so I'm trying to bring it up so you folks understand the concerns and hopefully don't go down that road. >> Yeah. because I do want this administration to succeed and I do want to see, you know, meaningful changes. It doesn't happen overnight. I know that that but we need to be moving in that direction. We seem to be moving in that direction and I hope we continue to move in that direction. >> Thank Thank you, Chair. Yes. And and you have our commitment to uh to work together. >> Okay. So um the is the is the occupancy rate of rise about the same 70% to
23278%. >> Yes, it's at 70% right now. >> It's at 70. Any folks at 70? >> It's a little bit >> 65%. Why do we know why? >> Um [clears throat] there is a number of reasons. I think you know in part it was due to the uh just staffing turnover with the property management team and so there were some um headwinds that we faced. However, we did uh replace the the property manager who started in November and so we believe that led to lower office, >> but we've raised these concerns when you folks were first leasing the building and then building the building, right? We've raised that. I've raised that. >> You had a boy chair that raised it and it went it fell on their ears. So the first two years of operation,
233we met all of the financial objectives. We're in our third year of operations and yes, we did run into some challenges, but we're addressing that. >> Okay. Yeah. The prediction was it's going to be a white elephant. So I hope that doesn't come come to fruition, but given the track record, I don't know. Okay. Thank you. Next, I don't know what to take next. Okay, why don't we go to Sinclair? >> Okay, >> so higher education committee visited St. Care last year. >> Okay, remember we went to Sinclair. It appeared close to being completed. Yes. >> To be open on August 2025th. >> Yes. >> Is it open? >> No, it is not. Um and >> no, I know that answer right now. >> Yes, I know. Amazing. >> Um, yes. And anybody that drives
234up and down University AB, >> I mean, what what happened? Why? Again, you know, the track record is just it's crazy. >> So, yes. Uh, I would say definitely um not proud of the fact that it's not open. Um probably two major reasons is uh Swintton is the contractor um that was also building Halle Halani and uh we the Sinclair project experienced a staffing shortage um uh primarily so that Sernen could redirect its resources [clears throat] to get Hal County built. Um, that's that's one, but also I will say we've uh we've instituted some quality control measures that we are holding our contractor to. Um, and so if they don't pass um we do make them, we do it. And uh it's between those two uh building envelope quality uh issues as well as staffing
235issues. That's where we are today. But I'm hopeful that this is the year 2026 year [laughter] >> and I don't know. Yeah. If I got to come before you next year and it's still not open. I don't know. I don't >> What you mean you don't know? >> So we heard earlier about a door about not having planning is holding up that we hear staffing shortage and we hear for the same things from you. So you you see the trend and this is not anything new because this go way back to some of the other projects that I'm not going to bring up at this point. >> So the delay now is what 18 to 24 months delay. >> Yeah, probably close to that. >> 18 to 20 months delay. >> Yeah. >> What's the
236cost >> for something like that? Um, well, we do have liquidated damages provisions if that's what I think is that what you're getting at or the I mean, you know, it's it it was a library before and it it's definitely serving a different use now. >> But you knew that when you started. You knew that when you went out to bid, so that's not an excuse. >> Yeah. >> So, how what is the overruns? How much is the overruns? I mean, okay, we gave you folks. [sighs] How much money did we give you folks for for Sinclair? >> You know, 54 million. >> Okay. >> Right. Or 41 million. No, we gave you 41 million. >> 40 million. 40. It was >> We gave you 40 million. Okay. >> So, 40 million. Yeah. >> And
237so, how much is the actual total cost of this project going to be? >> I want to say, and I apologize. Um, I don't have that particular detail. >> Come on. >> In front. I know. I'm I did not >> You were going to go see. >> Let's see. Let's see. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Um, >> I'm not going to have any more athletic questions. So, if you got to go recruit and raise money. [laughter] >> 60. Yeah, we want we want to see the money coming in. So, you can go. I do on this video. >> Perfect. >> You can next time you can ask if you can leave. >> We will we try to accommodate >> uh 62.7 million. >> 62.7 million is the total cost. >> Yeah. >> For the project.
238So we gave you 40 million. So you have 22.7 million overrun. >> Well, we signed a contract for more than 40. We signed the original contract um amount was 56 million56. >> Well, what that what that have to do with anything? [laughter] >> We gave the fact we gave you 40 million. Oh, so you anticipated 56 >> and it went over >> 40 million wasn't enough. >> Yes, 40 million wasn't enough. >> And so where did that extra money come from? >> Likely paid for it. likely a combination of BIM and tuition increase. >> There we go. >> So the the 16 million over what we gave you and you went ahead and done it and then over that now you have another um >> 6 million $7 million in change >> that you have
239to >> and that's change orders. So how many change orders? Thank you for raising that. How many change orders? I had it down though. I would have >> I don't have the total number of change orders. >> Okay. So, as of the letter as of a letter from David Lner dated July 26, 2024 change orders of that as of that date number 19 for a total of $82,000 and change. >> So, that was as of 2024. >> We're in 2026, two years later. How many change orders additional were they? >> I can get back to you on that. I don't have that detail. >> And tell us what those change orders were for. >> Yes, we will give you a detailed breakdown. >> Okay. So again, and you have no date of completion that you
240can give us. >> December of this year 2026. >> Okay. You guys all that heard I know. I'll see. >> Did you tattoo that in front of you? I will. [laughter] I've got my tattoo gun in the office. >> Okay. My team. [laughter] >> Any other questions on Sinclair before we move on? So, do we have to go visit it again because it changed since the what we saw the last time? >> Um, not there's Yeah, not been a lot of >> Okay. How about Snider Hall? >> Okay. >> How much did the legislature give you for Snyder Hall? >> 70. I thought it was like 48. 35 and 35 I think. >> 70. >> Okay. That that Yeah. >> Wow. Very generous. Okay. And what's the new cost for Snider? So we um well
241we combined two projects um where there was a uh our McCarthy Mall um >> what we've been calling it the McCarthy Mall revitalization project. >> Okay. Before you talk about adding in McCarthy, when you came before us and we gave you 70 million, what was that 70 million supposed to be for? >> The Snyder Replacement Building. >> Snider Replacement. Yes. >> Okay. And did that cost go up by itself? >> Yes. >> What did it go up to? >> It went up by an additional 17.7 million. which was effectively what happened was when we bid it out when we bid it out um the uh you know se six uh 68.9 was what the the bid um starting bid came in at we had given you 70 so you had enough >> and that that
242built four stories it built four stories Um there was the original desire was for it to be five stories. That was the original scope given what 70 could only afford us four stories. So we um used tuition funding to add another 17.7 to add a fifth floor which we had to make the goal no goal decision at the time that we awarded the fifth floor was a line item I mean an additive that we could add um if that was the desire because we had to make the call at the time because either that elevator is going to four stories or five stories. So, uh that was the >> So, it was supposed to be $87.7 million to get a fivestory building. >> That's what it ended up um costing us. >> Exactly that much.
243>> Yeah. >> But then you focus >> then you somehow got a sense that you needed to do McCarthy Mall. >> Yeah. So, McCarthy Mall um is widely known um I would say as like it's been widely known the beautifification type of a project but it really is um it it it's it's at its core it's a drainage upgrade project and the entire campus drainage system which is mostly within the McCarthy mall area it's all subsurface um it >> so what was the cost for this. Okay. So, is McCarthy Mall a building or it's just a mall? >> It's a drainage. It's a sewer. It's a drainage upgrade project. >> So, no building. >> No building. We needed to uh upsize our capacity to withstand a once in a 10-year storm. >> And the toss
244for that was 16.6 million. >> Okay. And it included Paradise Palms. >> Yes. >> So, could you not have done the drainage, just the drainage without doing the entire >> Yes, we could have. >> At what cost would that have been? >> Um, I don't have it broken down in those two. >> So, why didn't we just do the drainage? >> I mean, we we that was an that was an option. Um the the Paradise Palms area uh if if you're kind of familiar with it, uh there's a there's a big open seating area associated. It's there's no it's not covered. Um so not a lot of people use it. You're either sitting in the sun or the rain or it's dark. Um there's no lights because there's no it was just open. Uh and
245so we did see it as a highly underutilized area. So the um desire was to um make improvements to that space so that students could actually use that space for outdoor seating um for studying for gathering uh because that's in its current state. It did not attract that type of um body heat as we would call it. So it was highly underutilized. So because we were kind of already ripping up the mall right in front of it, um that was the time to do the upgrade. >> So what's the total cost of this project? >> So the so the McCarthy Mall was 16.6 which includes Paradise Palms which which comes out to a total of just under 105 million. So it was 87.7 + 16. >> Correct. >> No cost overruns. >> Uh not not
246yet. >> Not just yet. I think we had I think we we might have had one small one. >> And when is this supposed to be complete? >> In two years. So 27. >> When did you start? >> 27. um mid summer of of 20 five. >> And is it on a schedule or you right now it's still on schedule? >> Just like just like Sinclair, right? >> Oh, no. I hope it's not just like Sinclair, but yes. Right. Uh it's it's starting off um that way, but hopefully it doesn't. So what was the projected date of completion for Schneider Hall McCarthy Mall? >> Expected completion date is sorry. summer of 2027. >> Okay. So, literally you have a year and a half. >> Yep. >> That date. >> Yes. >> Don't sound so um
247enthusiastic about it. [clears throat] >> Well, I already know in my words. >> Yes. >> Well, that's not encouraging. Oh my god. [laughter] Again, why is no one ready? Um members, I don't think I don't hear you guys with so Okay. I know this is this is um Senator Hashimoto's question, but his his question about the means of financing from revenue bonds to go bonds for >> Oh, okay. >> for the housing >> Yes. >> situation. >> Yeah. And also, is student housing going to be run by system or by Monoa? And what's the long-term plan? Oh, I um Okay. I don't know what the long-term plan is. Maybe I think that's still being sorted out. I I don't I don't feel I'm in a position to um I think it's unknown right now >>
248for the for this uh who is going to be managing student housing. >> Yeah. Is it going to be a system fall under the system or is it going to fall under um Monoa or I don't know >> it'll be the [laughter] >> so that decision has not been made at this time. There is a recommendation from the board of regions to look into three areas uh that may go from system down to mano. One of them is student housing, the other one is facilities and the third one is auxiliary services. So that uh discussion is starting uh but a decision hasn't been made yet. So that's where we are with that. >> When is the decision going to be made? uh we hope to have a decision by I would hope by the end
249of this academic year by June and then we need to execute how this is going to is going to run because it also will affect uh the recruitment of who's going to be the next chancellor right uh we need to have an idea of how to position the assets of the campus >> so where would student housing fall in the overall priorities of the university I think probably one of the highest priorities of the university. >> Okay. When you say one of the highest, how come some of these other ones have leap frog? >> Uh, okay. I was not uh here when these decisions uh were made. Also, student housing sometimes the method of financing is through the rents that the students do pay. Those rents have been stagnant for quite a while. So the
250reserve accounts in order to upkeep those uh those facilities uh were not kept up in healthy balances and therefore the the student housing fell in some type of disrespect disrepair. Uh and then at that point uh uh VPA jumped in uh uh to see what they can do and then they would use resources from the main campus to try to >> to bring the >> So if the occupancy rate for Kani and occupancy of rise is where it's at continue to stay where it's at and if we have more students students online, less people coming onto the campus. If enrollment goes down, do are we going to need more student housing to be built? >> I think we going to need uh more student housing or at least maintain the existing inventory we have at
251Manoa. Uh though we have online students, uh 92% of them are on campus. out of uh the 100% of students at Manoa, 48 are 100% uh uh you know, but I'm hoping you folks are projecting into the future because we build we build you know pharmacy school, we build um housing and then yet and we cannot fill it because or it doesn't come to pass because we our projections are off. >> I I don't want to talk about other campuses. I'll talk for Mano and you and I we were up in DC at NC and CSL and as you saw you know a lot of the community colleges even in other states they have the same issues that we do have. They have a lot of an online population and each state is struggling of
252what they're going to do with the infrastructure they have put on on these places or on these uh spaces. However, you also heard that the flagship institutions do not have the same issue because the students come there not just for an education but a whole experience which actually attracts them to be >> on campus. >> I don't expect that answers to come today or tomorrow but I'm hoping that you folks are looking at this and that you're going to be able to share what your what the plans or thoughts are as to going forward. [cough] Right? Because as we look at do we invest in redoing polyoi line or do we upgrade the current dorm situation there? Do we look at opening up >> polani to more undergraduate? I mean you know looking at what
253you already have and how do you utilize it. So, I'm just saying that these are things that you folks need to look at and and analyze to the best of your abilities uh to project to where we're going because we we don't do a very good job at at projecting correctly or even looking at it until we're faced with it and it's too late. >> Yeah, our record speaks for itself. >> Thank you for not arguing that point. Okay. [clears throat] Okay. Any anything else? Okay. I have a couple more things, Jan. >> College of Ed. >> Yes. >> What's the long-term plans for college of education space, including the lab school? Are the regions involved? When will decisions be made? So the decision around what's going to happen once the college of ed moves
254from the existing area to snider uh has not been com Paul. >> Yeah. So that so that's once that happens that will be uh that is a discussion and um a process that we need to engage with the regions in terms of what we're going to do with the >> but in the in the meantime you can look at what you >> and and we are and so we have gone through a process of determining what would be the best use of that particular >> well one of the proposals came out is to make it into some kind of a entertainment retail facility which I I think the community is not behind >> and and I think at this point in time we're still doing we're doing a feasibility study right now and we're listening
255to the community. We're working with the lab school and we're basically trying to understand what what does that community want for that partic because it's it's actually quite a big lot. I mean I don't think you're going to find open lots like that in the urban core. you know, I mean that's it's it's a significant asset and so I think the determination on what that's going to look like going is it retail, is it residential? I mean these are part of the feasibility study that's going on right now >> and when is that study going to be done >> and by the end of the year? >> Okay. Okay, the last thing that I have I think Jan ends your >> Yes. Time on the hot seat. Yes. Good. Let's do it. >> Um is
256travel. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah, that came out of nowhere, right? [laughter] >> Travel. >> So according to what we receive on the travel. So is this the one that was included in the table the from WHAM or the additional >> um probably the WHAM tables and both. Oh, >> so there seems to be several individuals that have really high travel expenses. >> Correct. >> What is the what is the administration doing to Okay, before I go there, Jan, >> I had a um we had a call about the Dukanoko aquatic center. Is that falls under you or does that fall under athletics. >> I think it's a combination. I mean, in terms of it's >> they're concerned about the management of the pool. No website, so students aren't given notice that the pool is
257shut down. Only learn about it when they actually go to the center and see a sign. So, so can you go can you look at that? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. So, what what what's the university doing as far as trying to keep a lid on some of the travelers? We have uh you know as it came up during the process and and yes you we recognize that there are certain individuals that do have uh but one uh the total value of the travel as well as the number of travel being pretty high. So we are instituting a policy right now that once to determine a threshold that once that threshold once that individual hits that threshold that additional approvals as well as That threshold might be >> 12,000. >> $12,000. >> Correct.
258>> And how many trips? Cuz we have an individual here that did 61 trips, >> right? 61 trips. >> Correct. And if if I'm not mistaken, >> 32,000 >> that was that that one particular individual uh who resides on a neighbor island goes back and forth uh from the neighbor island to Oahu quite often. So these are the things that that we need to take a look at. >> Still quite a bit. >> It is >> and then another 40 trips. So $43,000. >> Yes. So that's why we are now instituting that threshold policy >> just for em correct. >> Okay. Well, [clears throat] the the Senate will be entertaining a bill to put a moratorum on trips for two years with some with some exceptions. Okay. So I hope you folks will will look
259at it and embrace it because it's not just the University of Hawaii but across the board. >> We will take a look at the bill >> are yeah I mean there are certain trips that required certain trips are mandatory because of the nature of whatever um area that you might be in charge of. Um there are probably areas in which by law you're required uh to um fulfill certain obligations and those are probably going to all be exempt. >> Sure. >> But there are many conferences where and it's not just again uh we've seen at DOE and others where you're seeing 10 15 20 people at one time going to the same trip. we're going to similar conference and and so forth and you know what is what is our return on investment? what is
260it we're actually instituting after these trips? And so, um, >> oh, we'll absolutely take a look at it and completely understand given the fiscal situation that the state has in terms of what we need to take a look at, uh, how our how we are expending it. >> Where does this trip monies come from? >> Uh, could be a variety of sources. Um, could be it could be budgeted general funds for trips. It could be tuition and fee special fund. Uh it could be from extra mural funding to as well. It it all depends on who the individual that's traveling and what they are traveling for would be where that particular expense would be charged to. >> Okay. I hope you can take a look at this and and come back and report to us
261as to what the university how the university is that they can manage these trips because certainly I don't want to have to continue a moratorum you folks are adults you should be able to manage some of these things right and it should be the border regions and not us that doing this but at some point when we feel it's out of control then we we step in >> I thinks also that the questionnaire when they fill out for trip should be whether or not that the conference that they're going on offers um >> online. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We can we can include that in our >> they can sit at their computer at school or home or wherever >> and and participate. >> Sure. >> Online. Yeah. >> Because you can justify any trip,
262right? I mean, if you want to, you can certainly justify >> um these trips. I know we go on many trips but our trips are usually paid for by the entity that is hosting us. So we don't they pay our airfare they pay for our woman board and they pay for meals. So we don't spend you know you might see oh we don't we don't spend state monies and it's in a form of scholarships that we have to report as gifts at the end of the year. And so, um, you know, if if somebody's not paying, then we don't I don't go because I don't want to spend the state money on trips and then be criticized for that. But I think these are the concerns um that we share, especially in a tight budget
263year. But even so, we should all be accountable. And there are some individuals that are constantly gone. And when they're gone, it's not just the cost of it, but they're not there. are not available, you know, and and you know, they're in certain positions, high positions that they should be there overseeing the programs, right? >> And to your point, so we will definitely take [clears throat] a look and again we are instituting the policy to kick up a higher degree of review upon a threshold. Uh but duly noted. >> Yeah. So can you guys report back to us? >> We will. >> Okay. With that at 4:39 we are