Board of Education Work Session - November 18, 2025

001No one is required to participate or be present for any of these and being in this portion of the meeting is completely voluntary. Our prayer and pledge will be led by Miss Rosales. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um before we bow our heads and pray, I would like for us to pray for um a dear dear friend of mine and I'm bringing her name up as a petition prayer request because she did work for one of our schools in the county, Christiana Middle, as a counselor. Her name is Ginger Eidge and tonight um she is fighting um she's fighting a a critical terminal illness and so if we can please if you can remember say a prayer for her. Bow your heads with me. Thank Dear heavenly father thank you for this day. Thank you for

002being a gracious God. Thank you for being a God who listens and who loves your children. Lord, I lift up every person who is dealing with some type of sickness. Your word says that by your stripes, we're healed. So, I pray in your son's name that healing is been comes to people's body and they're be uh and they're transformed. Lord, I pray for the pray for the board. I was as we're getting ready to make decisions on behalf of so many people impacts not just our students, our staff, but also the parents. Give us divine wisdom and discernment as we make ch take as we make decisions. So we love you. We praise you and in Jesus name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. Before we lead the the pledge of allegiance, I would like to

003introduce the group that's going to lead it tonight. And it's coached by Miss Heather Wharton and Miss Courtney Gregory. And I would like for them to step up to the podium and introduce the group and share a little bit about this phenomenal group of students. But before uh Miss Corny starts to speak or Miss Morton, I want to share a little fun fact about Miss uh Gregory. Uh Miss Gregory and I had the pleasure of knowing each other way back in the good old days when UT had its glory. We both were football hostesses where we uh recruited many fine young men and also got to meet Pete Manning. So, that's our claim to fame, [laughter] >> right? That's right. Well, thanks for having us tonight and and letting us uh lead the pledge, but

004I I do want to recognize our kids on winning their 18th TWSAA state championship in the small co-ed division. We've been doing this, Miss Workman and I have been coaching these kids for a really long time. Very proud. But, uh when you've done it 18 times, they kind of can can run together. But, but with this crew that day, we woke up at 6:00 a.m. Um and we drove to Knoxville and competed. Uh we have two football players on our cheerleading squad as well. Um and the game had been moved from Friday night up to Thursday night. So we went, we competed, our two guys raced back to get to the football game. Then we raced back and got to the football game and won the first round of the playoffs. So what a memory

005uh to win a state championship and then come back and win the first round of the playoffs. And we're still playing. Go Blaze. Um but very proud of the work ethic that they put in because sometimes it can be thought that oh competition comes first. That's most important. And absolutely not. at Blackman High School. Uh our support of our school and our community and our football team come first and then um it's nice that we get to do these have these other accolades as well. So with that, we'll let you say the pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you black men coed cheerleading for coming and leading

006the pledge. >> Thank you. Congratulations on your 18th championship. >> Y'all should have stayed up there. You should have just stayed up there in East Tennessee. You're going right back this weekend to Marville, aren't you? >> Oh, that's right. Because Blackman is playing in the playoffs. Well, we're not going to play in Mville. Actually, it's a home game that'll be on Friday. And I hope everyone can come and cheer Blackman against Mville >> here. >> Go Blaze. >> Yes. >> [applause] >> Go beat Maraveville, please. >> Do not. >> Thank you, girls. [clears throat] >> First up, we have the agenda. Do we have any items we want to add to the agenda? Any comments or questions? Yes, Miss Sharp. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so I see where we have teachers. Thank you for

007taking care of them because they they they're there early in the morning and help them with the weapons detection. Um, will will they kind of rotate in and out per semester? >> It's up to the teachers. They have a contract for the year, but we do allow them to switch at the semester. Um, we have a couple that for one reason or another had to switch, but we asked them to do semester long. >> Yeah. Well, I'm seeing that too as I'm riding the buses and they're getting them in there. They're they're doing great jobs. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay, next we'll move to the approval. >> Miss Maxwell. >> Yes, Mr. >> I have one more question, Dr. Sullivan. So, these are the segments for this year and so we'll have to do

008this again for next year for the next semester the Okay, perfect. I just want to clear that. Okay, >> make it clear or questions from anybody. >> Okay, we'll move on to the consent agenda. Any comments or questions there? Okay, we have no public comment tonight, but we do have Miss Shannon Groom with us tonight and I was hoping she could come and speak to us just briefly about the resolution that passed regarding our nurses. >> Thank you. Um, and thank you to Miss Sharp. Um, I think the T tsba just passed a very similar resolution to what the Rutherford County School Board passed to where asking the Tennessee legislature to add additional weights or formula to Tissa to help sufficiently fund school nursing in the school. So, very excited to see that getting a

009little bit more momentum going forward. So, >> thank you. >> Yeah, it was about time. >> Very. It's about time. And so you're also the Tennessee school nurse director. So that's going to be part of your agenda as well, that agenda as well. >> At the most recent conference, I was voted in as the director to um the National Association of School Nurses. So legislative initiatives are part of my um duties for Tennessee. >> Excellent. Excellent. >> So excellent. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> We'll be following that closely. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Thank you. We'll be following that as well. So Madam Chair, if I can just a minute. Um, if I may, I have spoken to a couple of our uh representatives because we want to see if

010if we can get sponsors of the bill. I've spoke to health and ed and they're going to talk if once we get the sponsors, we'll go to health and ed and then they'll send it through the full committee. So, >> excellent. >> That's where we are. >> Thank you. >> I'll let you know when we hear something from sponsor. >> Arcel, did you have something to add? Okay. >> I was just going to welcome this first time here with us. Uh, Mr. Roger Johnson is here. Our you don't have to come up and speak. I just want to we'll do a formal introduction at one of your other meetings, but Mr. Johnson's our transportation director and he is here tonight. So, I just wanted to introduce him to the board real quick. >> He is

011settling in. >> Yes. Yes. >> Can he come before the mic? >> Sure. I mean, he didn't he didn't plan to, but >> that's okay. It's just on the spot. >> It's just up to you if you want to. >> You could say just a You could just say hello. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Introduce yourself. >> Yes. Introduce yourself and just share a little bit about yourself. Um, again, my name is Audrey Johnson. I am a retired Army officer. I'm a retired federal government employee, and I'm also an ex senior director of the Denver Public School System Transportation Department. I want to thank Dr. Sullivan and my boss for giving me the opportunity to come here to do and use all of my experience, all of my knowledge to try to develop a transportation system

012that's safe, that's reliable, and that the public can trust. That is our goal. That's our desire. And I just need your help as part of our team to help us do that. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you so much. >> [applause] >> It was awesome. When I met with him, I was talking about, you know, the bus transportation world can can be political at times. Um, especially in a county the way we run it. And very respectfully, he was like, "Yes, sir. I've I've presented my budget to sitting members in Congress before." And I was like, "Understood. Thank you. [laughter] Understood, sir. Thank you." So, >> next we have Rutherford Proud. >> Yep. So first we have member from TA here to present um Dr. W lucky at Smyrna High School has

013been selected as 2025 John semi-teer of the year award by Tennessee Educational Technology Association. >> Good evening Dr. Sullivan, Madam Chairman, distinguished board members. My name is Jill Pierce. I'm the executive director of the Tennessee Education Technology Association. We're made up of members from public, private, and higher ed. Um, and we put on uh a lot of trainings and things. We work very much with Tulsa and TSBA. I apologize. I came in on two wheels. I was at a meeting in Bartlett and like most school meetings, they've run over, but I'm sure y'all have no you have no experience in that at all. So, uh, as a retired educator of 30 years in East Tennessee, I think my accent kind of gives me away, but uh, uh, we're very proud to be here today. And

014I know that Wall-Ally didn't know until they contacted him for this meeting. Um, I want to give you a little background. Obviously, the state the department of ed does the teacher of the year, which is a very distinguished award, but we realized that in our organization that there was a little bit of a gap about uh teachers being able to do that were outside your standard education format. And this can be applied for for any classroom teacher across the state. But I want to give you just a little background so you know this is a statewide award. Uh with the presentation of this Wally gets a free uh trip to our state conference, all expenses paid. Nothing comes out of the board of ed budget which is always a good sign. >> And uh so

015I just want to read kind of what this is very quickly because I know uh getting out is always good before a holiday. Uh the John Smi Teacher of the Year award uh is basically presented to an outstanding educator who embodies excellent and integrating technology to enhance teaching and learning for their students. Uh this award is about teaching and learning, not just technology. But we do have an emphasis that we want to see that they're using it efficiently because that's always the main thing. We can put a lot of shiny things out there, but it's not good unless it benefits that child in the classroom. So, I'm very proud that this year's P uh winner is Mr. Wally Luckadoo from Smyrna High School. [applause] I'll present this to you and if I hope we'll get

016a picture and all that kind of stuff at the end, whichever works out for you guys and we'll get a picture from there. But I uh this is a statewide award and like I said he'll be recognized at our state conference also and uh we'll have some things sent out on the national choirs with our national affiliations also. So Rutherford County uh shows what great teachers they have. >> That's awesome. >> Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations. >> Congratulations around here. >> You want the board too? Okay. I was actually [laughter] underestimated. I thought I did one. [clears throat] >> [laughter] >> We have the best staff. We are constantly have someone up for awards and across the state and federal level. Just so proud. >> Yeah, we do. >> Next, we have the man of

017the hour, >> Rob. You're up. [laughter] >> And so, if the board can see, it's something that we are trying. Can you go back to that? Um, we are, you'll see that John has on the screen. One of the things our board agendas have that you can see is they are three and 400 pages long at times. And so we are working to link like all our votes, everything will also still be the same, but we're working to link documents here instead of having tabs um to hopefully make it a little bit easier for people to follow. Everything else will still look the same. The format just looks a little bit different. Um, Thursday will still be the way it's always looked the three and 400 pages, but that way people following along and anybody

018that has their computer, they can follow the links here so it doesn't look three, four, 500 pages and they can just follow it there. So, a lot cleaner. Yes, >> I do like this. >> So, all right, Rob, it is all you. >> Good evening. I I heard man of the hour, so I have at least an hour, right? >> Yeah, Rob, it is all you. >> Everyone's about to throw stuff at me. Um, so this is part two, right? So back on the 5th we met and I think we met for five and a half hours and we dug into enrollment demographics development capacity and started talking about what does this all mean as we start to plan for what you're going to hear tonight. And so a few things that I wanted to

019address just to bring to your light from the last um presentation I got into those tidbits. So, if you went back to page 36 of the enrollment report, so the big report that you got back then, um, we've had conversation about what is going on with like Steuart's Creek or Browns Chapel or Popular Hill. And when you go to page 36, just in Stewart's Creek alone, we have over 6,000 units that right now are planned to be built. They're not yet built. Um, if you go to page 34 where you see the scatter plat of all of the units, you see there's been a tremendous number of units that have been built in that area. And so when we talk about some of our elementary challenges, um, it's the amount of development and how we're

020yielding kids out of those areas. And really what I'm setting up is when all those units are built, we're going to be making some other boundary changes in that area. We we just can't get around that with just the number of units. The other tidbit before I get into this presentation of of the boundaries is if you go to page 66 of that full reports um from that day um that gets into retention. So we went back to the 201819 K through 11 students. We had over 41,000 students as they aged through to see who's here. um we've had 13,000 students of that original K11 that progressed and were not here as they move forward. So there's a tremendous amount of movement when we just think of retention. Those kiddos left and they were replaced

021by other students and where they went was dictated by what developments, age of inventory, value of inventory, type of inventory. So I wanted to give you that context that the reason we're having to do boundaries is we just have a lot of stuff going on here. So, um that that's my prelude into this. Um we started out um in this process. Um really trying to see from two years ago, how are things tracking with um the middle school zones that we thought would were needed and that was where it was also at the elementary. We we need to do some additional work. And so we've had a couple admin meetings here that with the color code here where I met with the admin team to say here's what we've come up with. Here's what this

022might look like. Um how do we start to address things such as transportation impacts um things with maybe some areas where um we initially thought, hey, you need to go here, but now as we look at what's happening with growth, hey, you may need to come back. And so how do we think about that? How do we address that? that's what you as a board um we get to deliberate and and talk about and and I want you to know that whether it's your admin team or RSP um we really take to heart that this is difficult this is challenging and we're trying to get to the point where we have some sort of plan that it is just known when um we have this growth we know there's this number of students we have

023this building that's coming online it just won't make sense and and we're getting closer We're we're starting to have some some of the right facilities. We have to plan for some more facilities, right? And that's kind of the conversation that we started to have at our last meeting. I'm sure we'll have a little bit more tonight. So, this brings us to that last blue, not the last, second to last blue box um that says um today's date. So, November 18th um where you have your first read of what this information is. Um so, our current data foundation. So again, just a recap of some of the other information that you've received in the past is where's our enrollment tracking and um we're tracking towards 56,000 students um when we look at this K12 enrollment. So

024continued growth in spite of higher interest rates um we're still seeing uh high demand of people moving into this county and um kids um being needed to be served. We have our existing elementary boundary map to refer to. Again, we're zoomed out to the entire county, so that's why it's so small. What the current enrollment is with the buildings forecasted over the next um 5 years out to 3031. Um this gets at um when we looked at Stewart's Creek. Um they're over their program capacity or their functional capacity. If you remember, we talked about that as well at the other meetings. How do we develop this functional capacity? So go back to some of those documents and you start to see the data that's trying to drive us into having the right decisions. The other

025elements that we had integrated into this is um how do we align with showing um not only you our community but our county commissioners that we're effectively and efficiently using our resources. This is why we're looking at some of these boundary changes as well. So, if there's places where it makes sense, where we have capacity, try to move those kids in there. If we have too much students at some building, um we have to do something different, usually that is moving students to another building. Um we look at our u middle school boundary map for this current school year. Um you see those solid colors representing those middle school boundaries just like the elementaryaries. and then what was proposed for 2627. So again, solid colors bringing on a a new middle school and then what

026our current projection tables are when we bring that new building on. So what became very apparent on this table is we have um very limited middle school capacity where we actually need the buildings and where the students are. And so as you start to tie this back to the data, this is why we in the proposed plan that we had before this evening from two years ago, um we can see that we still had some issues that we needed to address. So that's why we started to dig into it. So we did have some challenges. So, I mentioned Sears Creek Elementary. Wanted to get them where they would be utilized because that's negatively going to impact the student experience, parents experience, too, just trying to get in and out of that site. Um, we also

027um were looking at Walter Hill Elementary um as an older building and so do we expand the Wilson Elementary zone? So, you'll see that um in the elementary plan. In the middle school, we have Popular Hill opening up. And so, um, we're projecting a capacity there of about 1,200 students. And, um, when we previously looked at this, um, we know that the zones don't adequately balance the enrollment and utilize our space. Um, we looked at Blackman Middle because they're overutilized. Christian Middle overutilized. Rockville Middle School overutilized. And then um we've not done a comprehensive middle school resoning since 201718. Right? So it's been a while. Um we've been able to hold things in place, but we're now at the point where we just have to do something, right? And opening up the new middle school

028um provides that opportunity to try to address our overutilization across all of our middle school buildings. >> And Rob, I think that's a point that is none of us like resoning. I think this is my fourth year as director of schools and third year that we've had to do resoning knowing that we were so far behind in our building program and outdated on our zoning lines that this was work going into it we knew we would have to do but not having a district-wide middle school reszone in nine years. We're we're stretched too thin in areas that have grown over that time, but our lines are outdated. And I think it's pretty amazing to think you could have had a kindergartenner in 2017 that made it the entire way through 8th grade at the end

029of this year without having I think we had one or two neighborhoods get reszoned from Seagull to Oakland during that time. And that's all we've touched at the middle school level. >> Impressive. Good. Good. Good. Excellent points to add to this. So when we started to look at the the zones, we we're focused first on the elementary. And again, just for the benefit, we're we're zoomed out for the the entire county. And what I wanted to highlight is when you look at the legend, what we've done on this map is to illustrate where some of those changes would occur. And so at the elementary, we have areas from Walter Hill Elementary to Wilson Elementary. And then area B, um, we move areas of Stewart's Creek to Browns Chapel. And again, that's where I go back

030to what I told you, the number of units that are being built in this Stewarts Creek area is just tremendous. And to try to keep our boundaries as tight as we can in some of the other places, it will not be achievable. We're we're going to have to be looking into the future as again 6,000 units just in that one tight area. Um, a lot of units being built. Um, when we go to what the concept one looks like where we have zoomed in a little bit. Um, as we look at this map, get my glasses out so I can help you guys work your way through this. So with concept one zoomed in, one of the things that we also put on here is where we have school properties. So this also starts to

031get into some future planning of of where in the future will we build some um other capacity elements. And then when we look at the projections for concept one, um what you're able to see here is um again to my points, um Stewart's Creek still by 2930 will be over capacity, but we're able to um work through 2627, 2728, and 2829 with those um boundaries being able to potentially be in place. caveat to that if we build the units greater than what we are projecting um it may not last that long but the goal is as we have these first two years and we start to plan what is the next elementary space that's needed two things on this Rob if you don't mind highlighting one just for people that have been following this so

032our work with Rob and RSP has been going on since summer of 22 two. So we started with an enrollment analysis and building en or building capacity analysis all through 2022 2023. Then we went into a reszone proposal that the board passed elementary, middle, and high school initial proposals and the fall/inter of 2023 with a caveat to come back and pass to revisit six months before it went into effect. So last year the board passed elementary and high school resoning. Now we are to the point of getting to middle school resoning. Uh just to give everyone background, this isn't the first time that we've worked. And so if community members are watching and if you're a middle school parent, you're like, "This is the first time I've ever heard of this. This has been the

033almost four-year cycle now." But if you will go back up to elementary, the current enrollment, Rob, and show what happens if we don't do anything with Steuart's Creek, >> any next year. And these are how many students actually reside in the area. This does not include any zone exemptions. This is just how many kids reside there. 26 27 is 1217. 2728 is 1318. 2829 is 1443. 2930 is 1594. Then you get to 30 31679 Brown's Chapel 534, 519, 512, 491, 491, and then 487. So while we know nobody wants to leave Steuart's Creek, we have schools close together. Nobody wants to be reszoned, but it's not fiscally responsible for us, at least in my opinion, to leave schools that close together and not utilize them and have that many kids in one space. So you

034can see with the elementary projections, we're we're able to to hold all the buildings under the capacity through 2930. The elementary looks good. I mean, it really does compared to where this we looked at four years ago that when we had so much that light shaded peach color was just half of our buildings and now we have one. It's It's a lot better than where we were. >> Yes, Mr. Table. Sorry, I was >> That's all right. Uh Rob, do these these projections take into the buildings that you mentioned, the projects that are going on, the developments that are happening? Are you kind of forecasting that inside of these projections? >> 100%. So, within that model, we have a subdivision life cycle that has a building permit allocation model. So, as we look at what

035the developers are intending to build or what they have been building in some of these subdivisions, um that's pushed in. And then as we look at how are they yielding a certain number of kids um with those first 25 units or 50 units, that starts to statistically help us understand here's what this might look like. We're attracting younger age kids versus middle school or high school. >> In that same vein, obviously there can be some variance, right? There could be families move in with no kids, there could be more families move in with more kids. Um, since we've been working with you, have the projections kind of lined up with what you forecasted previously? >> Yeah, good question. And I believe we've been at 99 to 100% accurate with the projections. Where things get a

036little bit off is when we get into the buildings where some of them and we can track it back to variables like hey they built more units than what we anticipated or they started to yield more kids because the value of those homes um started to attract different type of students. So that's kind of been the value of the modeling process is when it doesn't quite work the way we looked at all the variables. we know which variables need to get adjusted as we've been moving through. Um this is now I think our third cycle. >> So we have some historical precedent but it doesn't necessarily mean that's the way it's going to end up but these are the most likely outcomes >> and most likely statistically driven by some of the data sets of

037what could happen. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Okay. >> All right. So that was concept one. So in concept two for the elementary um we again move um areas from Walter Hill to Wilson. So that's up on the north side right on our our county boundary. >> And those are the same areas, right? In both >> Yeah. same same in both of the options. And then in area B, we moved some areas of Steuart's Creek to Brown's Chapel. And so it's a bigger area. So, when I zoom in, um, the area that, um, we're looking to move, um, it's in the blue area on this. See if this got a pointer on it. I don't think it does. Maybe it does. It didn't show up on the screen, of course. Um so

038um when we look at um the the street just to give you perspective there um of the areas that we're moving um this is um near Almaville Road and um this this big chunk here just south of our property and then um we take um an area that's on the north side um that's in Stewart's Creek. So trying to get things that are a little bit farther and on the east or south part of the existing boundary and moving them to Browns Chapel um to be able to get the right number of students out and we're not able to go as long in this option as we could with taking areas that are directly south in concept one from Stewart's Creek to Brown's Chapel. So if you remember I'm going to go to the numbers.

039We go back to one. we can get Stewart's Creek all the way till 2930. And in this other option where we take the southern parts of Stewart Creek and then the north and eastern part of Stewart's Creek to move to Browns Chapel um that gets us um only till 2829. So that's that's the big difference as far as number of students um that we'd impact or how long this boundary could potentially last. So, those are the two things that we had at the elementary level to to address something that we know we have to to look at with Steuart's Creek. We stop there. Any questions about concept two point Rob will not be here Thursday. So, if you have questions and you want him to run models or something, everybody will just email me, um,

040then I can get those to Rob or I can answer questions the best that I possibly can on Thursday as well because I can pull very easily the number of kids are in each spot, but Rob models for us very well as far as the number of kids in those spots. >> Yes, Mr. sir >> so we can relieve black men Sewers Creek in Rockville and it feels like we're back at the same spot a little bit not necessarily with Rockville and black men but with Sewers Creek. Um, so two questions. Number one, of these two concepts, which one gives relief to Sewers Creek the longest? How many kids are being what's the difference between the two concepts? Because you can't tell from here. You just getting total numbers because I will hate to do

041this if we have to reszone and then have to reszone again because there is development going on everywhere in this area where we're referring to. And so I you know it's the whole purpose why we want to do this is to prevent from a continuation of resoning. So, we want to get this right and and I know we we're doing and I appreciate all the data that you all the work because it's a lot of work and it's not easy, but we want to get this right and we don't want to have to come back and reszone because the way it happened is that it took too many kids from one school and is it didn't really shook it didn't shake the way we thought it was going to shake. >> Fair fair assessment. And

042when we look between these two concepts, it gets us an additional year where the numbers are similar. So in concept one, we have 1,043 students in 2829 and in concept 2 um we have,35 in 2728. So it gets us one additional year of a similar enrollment. What that's suggesting is that in concept two um the areas that are left in Stewart's Creek have greater potential for more students to be generated. So this is where if you go back to the original enrollment analysis and these 6,000 units where are most of them happening and it's it's in the area around Stewart Creek Elementary more than what we're seeing in the south part of Stewart Creek. When you say the south part of Sewer Street, are you seeing going towards Emma um Van Beer into Elmobile Road?

043Is that the area you're referring? Because there's a ton of development over there. I do know over by Gosh, I don't know where the the road, what is that road? >> Rocky Forest Road is >> Rocky Fork. Yes. >> Is the is the northern part of this area that we would be taking south of that to Chapel in concept 2. And there's a there's another development that's going on. Well, right where Miss Arby lives and my brother lives in McFarland with Arbor Heights. That's And there's another development on Kid Road. I mean, there's just development going on everywhere in that area. >> It's going on all over. >> It's going all over the county. Absolutely. But it's like it used to be farmlands, farmlands four years ago and now they're just development everywhere. >> Dr.

044Sullivan, I think you had something you wanted to add. The way that Rob and I worked on this is we did the next two years as our primary focus. Um, and you'll see 1244. Those again are the number of kids that reside. Not every kid that were projected to reside there are going to attend the school. Uh, they we do have a larger attend there because of a three school campus zone exemptions. That number is going to be higher than that 1244 potentially. They're about 50 kids more in option two as Rob was talking about because it picks up more open land where option one is going to move more current students. Option two leaves more open land but still moves students. So >> So concept two is leaving room for the potential growth >>

045but it makes it bigger over >> because it's it's moving more. It's still moving 300 kids. So, it's still moving quite a few kids, but it's leaving more land you were going to eventually develop. >> So, it sounds like in 2030 31 whoever's on the board may have to look at this again. >> I don't think we're ever going to get away from doing this every couple at least till we stop grow. I think that was our intent. But >> yeah, >> it's been this way for 30 years. I don't know a way to stop it. >> The only way it's going to stop it is put a we're full sign out on the county county line. closed. >> Mr. Tidville. >> Yeah. So, looking at the different concepts between the elementary concept one, concept

046two, uh, Brown Chapel is is eaten the Stewart's Creek on on both of them, but it looks like the difference, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, is on concept one and zoomed in view, it's grabbing a very dense area, just smaller geographically, whereas concept two is grabbing a much larger geographic area, maybe not as dense. And so to me is does that mean that I don't know just my brain thinking it seems like we would if we're trying to plan more in the future the more rural area the larger geographic area is likely to pick up more development than the already super dense areas. So that would allow if Brown's Chapel is eaten up more than that or more geographic area and those developments happen there then they're already zoned Brown's Chapel

047in the future. It seemed like that could be potentially u a better long-term plan even though the numbers generated show that it's going to be 50 more students in concept to Stewart's Creek. I'm just thinking about the potential potential developments. So yeah, what you're getting at is the current kids versus future kids as the developments happen. So for sure if you take areas like in concept 2 that are to be developed and are generating about 50 less students um it potentially could be as as you stated. >> Dr. Sullivan, do you have a recommendation? Is there one plan that works best for you? >> Not particularly. just know that if concept 2 is going to leave more kids at Stewart's Creek and so if areas by Stewart's Creek grow quicker than some of those concerns

048that we currently are addressing we we could be right back here. That's my only concern with concept two is that it leaves more kids at stewardship. >> Okay, >> that's my only concern. I mean it's 300 kids roughly at either one. So >> Mr. Darby. >> Um, I know I've already gotten several emails about the Stores Creek Elementary Reszone being back on the table. Um, and obviously none of it was done intentionally, but I I am extremely disheartened that we told the public they would be going back to Stewart's Creek after the new elementary school was built. And we are now talking about telling some of those same families that they're now going to have to go back. I think at the elementary level in particular, that's really hard to be pulling a kid back

049and forth. And I someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when we initially started all the reasonzoning conversation, one of our top things was not wanting to have to do this and wanting to start really looking at, you know, picking a zone and trying to stick with it. And that might mean that a school sits more empty than another for a year or two until the building catches up with it. But at least then we're not reszoning every two years. So I think it's important that that we look at it in that aspect as well. Um I'm also concerned with concept one. It looks like and it's sometimes hard to tell from these maps, but it looks like some of that is like right next to Stewart's Creek. And I can tell

050you now, it is not going to sit well with parents that they live right next to that school and then you're going to make them drive 15 minutes to another school. I don't I don't not claiming to have all the answers. I don't know what they are. I don't know if we need to look at some really kind of out there out of the box unique ideas. I know I've had the thought of potentially looking at maybe doing a K2 and splitting off Stewart's Creek Elementary at some point. I don't know. I don't know what the answers are. Um, but I think it deserves a lot of of thought and discussion. Um, like we've all said, none of it's easy. Nobody likes it. I just have a really hard time with going back to people

051that we told they could come back to Stewart's Creek this year that now they're going to have to go back. That's just a hard cell for me and it's really hard for me to think about us doing that to those really young students as well. So, Mr. Bairected >> I've got three or four observations that I if you can help me with a couple of them directed toward you, Dr. Sullivan, a couple toward you. Um, the modeling, when do you pick up the subdivision? When do you know how does the model work? Do do you pick it up when it hits the planning commission at first? Then you adjust it once you know the product that they're going to build. How much for how much foresight do you have? Great question. So there's really three

052parts probably four parts. Um the first is when they go through the preliminary plat. So we become aware that something's going >> You pick it up then. >> Yeah, we pick it up then and then we validate that when we get the final plat. Then third, when we have our meetings with the city themsself on what they're hearing in the process of talking with the developers and builders in that particular development. And then the fourth piece is when we're touring each of those developments to observe what we're seeing happening there. And then the fifth would be when we start to get kids. >> How how does that start to generate as you build 10 units or 20 units? >> Yeah. Right. And you've done it long enough. You've done this long enough. You have pretty

053good predictions depending on what the product is. If it's a zero lot line condo, $400,000, that's going to yield one set of students. If it's a $600,000 development, if it's a 800,000, if it's a million, right? So, you're you're adjusting all the way through this >> 100%. >> So, we shouldn't be cut off guard. as long as your data stay stays up to date and there's no reason why it won't probably the only reason we wouldn't stay up to date is if we don't get his information I suppose so it's I'm fascinated the more I'm around you I'm fascinated by the model and and the prediction and how close you are to this because 30 years ago we shot in the dark it was just well what are they going to build is it a

054starter home is it a move up home what is it do we We need an elementary school, do we need a high school? What do we need? All right, here's a question for you, Dr. Svin, looking at this uh and I'm going kind of be hypothetical just a little bit, I guess. Looking at Steuart's Creek, uh if at 2030 2031 we're oh what 70 students over, right? if we don't adjust. Uh, how many students go in a portable classroom? What's your average population? >> We go back to where we were last year with portable classrooms. >> About how many students per for per per classroom? >> And the portables up to 25 is tough, but we try to cap those 24. >> You try to run them at 20. So, in that particular instance, you

055would have to have, if I'm doing my math right, about >> we put them back out front. >> Something like that. We still have the portables in the back at Stewart's Creek, >> right? I know we are, but that that I guess the point I'm trying to make here, if we make no adjustments, then that's the other alternative. >> Well, we'd have to have a lot more. Can you go back up to the current? >> Well, okay. That >> Yeah, that's with concept two. >> And then the the third question. Well, go back to that, I guess. >> Yeah. 1679. We don't have any room for that. >> Right. Right. You probably don't have enough landfield at the high school. >> [laughter] >> I mean realistically Trey, do you know any other >> I don't

056mean to laugh about this but >> there is no other land. Correct. The geothermal wells are there. There is no other land. Correct. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So then the the kind of the third point is how much dialogue or input has transportation logistics had with this? Are we strict? >> Trey's looked at it but I we have that as far as it is. Can can we can we dive a little deeper then and see if one way or the other yields better logistics? I I hate to put our new transportation director on on on the spot real quick, but but if he could do they could do some kind of analysis maybe >> Trey look a couple weeks. >> Okay. >> Well, great. So, that would give us a little insight maybe as

057to which plan would be better. Thank you. Thank all of you for for that in >> You're hitting the ground running. He is. >> Yes. [laughter] >> All right. >> Go ahead. >> And realistically, it doesn't matter. Ultimately, my job is to make recommendations. So, um I just want to go like what the board approved last year had we focused a lot on high school last year. Uh high school had a lot of noise and that's where our attention was last year. So what the board approved last year had Brown's Chapel at 631 moving to 2930 at 583 and let Steuarts Creek Elementary get to 1350. Obviously that number is a lot higher than 1350 probably because of the new developments that I'm sure is there. We don't we could have put 1350 not comfortably,

058but they've been that high before. We can't put 1679 on that campus. There's just that many campus. Well, Miss Miss Maxwell, >> Mr. Rosales. >> So, I agree the points Miss Sarby is saying in the sense that we reszone and then we there's kids that were traditional going to the school and now they're having to drive far out because that was the concerns I had. I think the other thing is that when we did voted on the map, it it showed that the zones were going to level off and that elementary school was going to help relieve everyone because what really started this was that the Sewers Creek PTO emailed us and wanting us to do something because of the overcrowded in that school. There were classrooms that were turned into class into classes that

059were turned into classrooms. And so that's what really drove the whole conver drive the conversation to do something at the elementary school. But it just feels a really interesting that we're kind of a little bit back to square one and trying to help relief Sir Creek right now. So, I just don't I think for me as a board member, I don't want to get back into resoning again after we just reszone. So, I don't know how that's going to shake out with all the development that's happening because we can't control the development and all the houses are coming in >> and who's going to send the kids to the school either. >> I want to give you another way to look at this where you can see how far we've come. Here we are on

060November 2025 and we only have one elementary building that we're talking about having a challenge. If you go back when we initially write it um some of the boundaries, the zones for elementary, there were a lot of changes. What I'm trying to suggest to you is Stewart's Creek, we just have so much development and the type of families that are moving in seem to be having a lot more kids in those areas that we're going to be doing more boundary changes in this area. To your point, it's how can we try to to better plan this? Um, I would suggest areas that are closer to a building tend to be something that people understand you should go to that building. things that are areas that are farther away maybe makes more sense particularly if you're

061not the person that's close to the building right that's the perspective they probably would go somewhere else our challenge is in the Stewart's Creek we're we're having stuff on the north side having stuff on the east side and then we're pushing down in the south side and so we're just going to be challenged anyone that's moving into the Stewarts Creek boundary whatever we choose it to be I'm just suggesting saying there's going to be another boundary change likely before 203031 school year. >> So Dr. Sullivan, you said you don't have a recommendation for either one, concept one or concept two. One is to is >> one moves more kids now, two moves more kids later. Um, one moves I don't like that Morton Lane is right behind the school, but the areas I'm most familiar

062with are the areas I grew up in, which is the north end of the county. And I know right now we have 231 as a boundary line and we have students that our team here made a joke about if they have a two-story house they can see Seagull Middle School or Seagull High School but they go to Oakland. So to act as we don't have people that can see schools that drive 10 minutes to another school. That's not the way that we've ever been zoned in this county. It's just not our reality. I wish it was, but we're not zoned in circles. We're zoned by roads. And so a circle we looked at when we first got together and it just made no sense the way our schools were. I would love to have a

063a circle everybody within that little map goes to that school. I we loved that but our buildings are not that way. I know our planner Shane Morgan would love to have that. He's got some great maps he would love to have. It just that's not where we have land. Um so seagulls are just the ones I think of because there's neighborhood right across that we reszoned back in 2019 or 2020 that went seagull to Oakland to relieve overcrowding. >> Miss Sharp. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, let me throw this out there. Um, since we have two charter schools that were just approved, I know Rocket Ship is looking in the seminary area. Do you know is that an existing building over there? It's just property. >> There's not one. >> There's not a building. Okay.

064I know that there's some property over there. Um, is that something that they could help us with because of the elementary? because they're zoned for the elementary >> if parents choose that. We've approved one. So, >> well, we have two now. So, we've got Rocket Ship and we have Novas. >> We have one. >> Correct. >> Two coming to There's two coming to RE County Schools has one. >> But it's a choice school. So, we can't mandate kids. >> We're not going to know who's going. I'm [clears throat] not saying mandate. I'm not saying mandate them. I'm saying could they help us? Could they give us some supplemental room if we work with them in the area and they built or bought in the area that we need and we don't have to reszone? >>

065We can't force parents to send their kids. So, I don't know how we're going to be able to help. I don't I I understand that out of I appreciate that out of-box thinking into saying let's see if the choice schools can help us but the reality is is that it's still very unknown how they can help us if the kids from this area is not going to that those schools. So I appreciate the thought and it's out of box thinking but I don't just don't know how we can enter into a partnership with them when this is a choice school. We can't in MNPS it will have worked and I will have agreed with you. Yes, let's do that because if MNPS they have it where a choice school can be zoned in a certain

066area and if kids are living in that geographical area they can't go to that um that that school because that's how they work. But we don't have it set up like MNPS. I don't know how we can I don't know how to change it to where we can do it something like MNPS does. >> Mr. titled >> I would really ask and request that in order to keep this board from blowing up in the motions that we would all seek recognition. I have been since I have been on this board. I have always patiently waited to be recognized and I would ask that all the board members do the same. I think Miss Sharp was simply asking if that in the future could be helpful and I I don't think the answer is I don't

067think anybody knows but it could potentially. Um my question is about these concepts. There is no grandfathering, there is no dual zone. These are ripping the band-aid off changes next year, right? >> Correct. Correct. >> Okay. Because that was a huge issue with the high schools and it really just delayed an inevitable problem several times because we kept dual zoning stuff out. And so I just want to make sure that that's clear that before that comes up at the next when whenever we do vote on this that we are considering the options before us currently as the board comes to a decision they do not include any grand fault. So any kind of changes that are made this board is aware that that will could drastically affect what is our primary focus which is these

068next two years. >> So just making that point clear. >> Thank you. We have never grandfathered eighth grade and below ever and it's not something we need to start doing now. >> I agree. >> Any other questions? >> Yes, Miss Sharp. The main derby, I'm so sorry. [laughter] >> Not really a question, but just kind of another point I want to make sure everybody's thinking about is elementary is the one school where our students stay the longest. So, I think it's probably most detrimental when we continuously reszone that because you have that affects the kids more directly the more often you do it versus like middle school, they're only there three years. So, if you resone every three years, there's a good class or two that you haven't even bothered. Same thing with high school.

069But these kids at elementary school are there for a longer period of time. So, it's just another thing to think about. Um, I I really would like to explore the idea of splitting Stewart's Creek Elementary into a K2 and a 35 because I think it would provide relief in an area that has a ton of growth happening right in and around that school. If we're looking at what what serves our students best, what serves our community and our parents best, I think it's something that should at least be looked at and discussed. Um, I I'm really not a fan of of pulling these kids in and out constantly, and he's already just told us that we're looking at another boundary change in another two to three years of the same school. I mean, it's like

070beating your head against the wall doing it the way we're doing it. I feel like I think it's going to require something different and unique. That's just my two cents. >> In a perfect world, I think the builders should come to us. I'm just saying in a perfect world, the builder should come to us before they build a subdivision and say, "What is the impact to this area and to the school system, but they don't come to us. They don't ask us." And we just have to kind of patch patch it together. So, and I've talked to several county commissioners about getting planning to come to us, but apparently that's not going to happen anytime soon. So, >> and you'd be talking about impact fees. >> Yes, Mr. >> You know, we definitely don't need

071to have any dual zones at all. We don't need to get into that. And you know again that we have got to do somehow another figure out a way to work with the developers and the planning commission and because we're the ones that having to make these decisions and we're going to continue to grow. It's like Miss Darby said we're going to be doing this every two or three years if not faster. And there's nothing we can do about it just because we're just grown so fast. But if we could all work together somehow and another we knew down the road what was fixing to happen. >> I think it would help us a whole lot and avoid >> this type of thing cuz it's really not fair to uh it's not fair to the

072parents. It's not fair to the teachers. It's not fair to the schools. It's not fair to us. >> I agree. >> But we don't have any choice. This is where the rubber meets the road. So, you know, it just it is what it is. And uh and unfortunately, you know, we whatever we decide, that's just the way it's got to be. And parents got to understand that we, you know, we can't do anything about the growth. >> No, we can't. >> And uh we just can't let kids be sticking out the windows because it's overcrowded. So, >> Miss Sharp, >> thank you, Madam Chair. Listen, we can have parents start showing up at the cities, the municipalities, because that's where the subdivisions are approved. It's not the county, it's the cities. It's the city of

073Leverne. It's the city of Smyrna, Rockville. That's where all the the development starts is in the cities. It doesn't have anything to do with the planning commission here in the county because by the time it gets there, it's already done. Parents are needing to go to these meetings and say stop the development. Stop stop building every on every square inch. We need a moratorum so we can catch up because it's not just the schools that we have issues with. It's the infrastructure. >> Workers city did do a moratorum. It wasn't wasn't a long one on on apartments for about >> Yeah. But if if the if parents would start going to the city um planning sessions, they have their their agendas and everything out on on the internet just like we do because that's where

074these big subdivisions are approved. So they're already approved at the local level before we even really know anything about them. And then by the time they get to the county, you know, I've been talking about the 11,000 permits that have been pulled from um Walder and Road to Sam Ridley in that five mile radius. It's coming. And this is part of what Rob's trying to tell us. But it's not the county. It is the city that approves these subdivisions. >> Yes, Mr. >> Dr. Svin. Now, we're talking past these concepts a little bit, so I don't want to get too far off track, but uh speaking of long-term planning, is there and traders Creek Elementary to add on an addition Not without or we'd be taking out all the playgrounds. We taking out all the

075pavilions like what what is a realistic >> playgrounds and the pavilion are not an option. That's where all the geothermal fields are. >> Okay. >> It it that whole playground area is all geothermal. Um there is a possibility and I did a drawing four years ago maybe when >> 29 2020 29. >> It's been a while. We could add and it would be a shoehorn but you could get 12 about 16 classrooms >> and that's a sign that's a significant number. What what will be the price tag on something like that? >> Oh um I didn't throw a price at it today but I mean I could have you something by Thursday but but there again you're probably 12 to 15 million. I mean, I think it's very realistic just considering that we keep having

076these same conversations in the short period of time that I've been on the board that these developments are going to probably grow faster than what we're expecting. So, if that's the case and whichever concept we choose, it's going to be better than not by far. But to look at it long term, maybe that's a real consideration to be looking at and seeing what the price tag is on having an addition there, what the space would look like, what the concept is. Just like Miss Darby said, I mean, we're probably gonna have to get out of the box a little bit. So, if this is another option, I would at least like to know what that option even looks like. >> Dr. Sullivan, >> Trey and I have talked about it and just so that we're

077clear, it's like Rockville Middle. It's extra classrooms. It is not an extra gym. It is not an extra cafeteria. So, >> elementary level that that's going to be tough >> from an operational standpoint. That's where it really hurts us. But we can put the children in a classroom, but you can't feed them and you can't get them through gym. That that's the problem. That's why when we when we built Popular Hill, we look we began to look at if we had to add all what do we need? So we increased the cafeteria size. Our kitchen is okay because they can feed more children with two serving lines. The problem is you can't they cannot they can't get enough of enough of them in there to feed them. The other problem is your related arts, your

078gym, and those kind of things. You don't that you can't run them. The space is not large enough. You end up needing, and I'm speaking for an elementary principal now, but you're going to need a third gym teacher. >> You got to divide those kids up. We don't have the space. That's why >> Popular Hill, we built the gym half again as big. That's that expansion space to give you that. That That's what happens. You can get them in there, but you can't give them the other things. Well, even a design standpoint, you it would be interesting to see if logistically we could still work through some of those. Maybe build a small gym just in, you know, small a much smaller version what we typically have and then have that in rotation around there.

079I don't know. I'm just thinking outside the box here to see what's actually on the table. Um because I I just don't see this going completely away with these concepts. Miss Rosales, >> I was told I was under depression. One of the reasons we couldn't do an addition is because there was no space because the way that they were they were built, it didn't have sufficient land for us to push out because they were all in the same three areas. >> That's why that's why I use the term we would have to shoehorn it in. >> It's there's not space there. Basically, what you would look like is on the wing where the drive up pickup line is. Each of those wings would get one wing would get four classrooms. Another wing gets four classrooms

080and the other wing we would have to build out in the front and you could get six to eight. You could possibly make it twotory. It's going to from an architectural standpoint it's not going to be aesthetically pleasing but it would be brick and mortar and you could do it. Um but it's they're going to be difficult. It is tight and they would be expensive and there is no it would strictly have to be classroom because there's no sewer and there's no water additional services there. >> No bathroom. >> We wouldn't be able to expand the bathroom. >> Oh wow. That's that bathroom is a problem. >> That won't be a problem for kids. >> That's a problem we got into at Rockville when we added on Rockville Middle. There were no additional bathrooms >>

081cuz let me tell you these kids go to the bathroom all the time. >> Yes, they do. >> Especially as young as they are. >> Mr. Vaughn, >> Mr. Freed, I got a solution. Let's consolidate seat in the county. Let's take over all the schools in Rutherford County [laughter] and we can solve this problem. >> Well, there goes mine tomorrow. >> Mr. Reed, if you'll see what the what the next steps are, just let us know. No, that's that was meant to be a joke, but thank you. >> No, don't No, I'm going to hear it from >> Yeah, there goes mine tomorrow. [laughter] Thank you. >> Anybody else would like to comment? It's not an easy decision to make, but you've done you've given us all the data and information and this is that

082I'm have to kudo what Mr. VA said. This is light years better than the way we used to do it. Yes, Mr. V. I and I hate to assume things, but like the the kids that are in Stewart's Creek, they go to Stewart's Creek High School eventually. >> They'll stay that way. Yes. On both of these. >> Where the Browns Chapel's kids end up going to high school? >> Blackman and Stewart's Creek. >> So, it's kind of split 50/50 or 75 25. >> Where do they go to middle school? >> Popular Hill, Stewart's Creek. next year. Part of that's based on >> Brown Chapel will pick up most >> of Popper Hill. >> Popper Hill. >> Okay. >> Yep. It's on the next slides. >> That's So if I recap and give some names to

083the things we've been talking about. So in concept one, um the area that's south of Stewart's Creek Elementary off of Morton Lane, um that's Cedar Hills, Derby Run, and Amberton. Um, so directly south in the area that's B. When we go to concept two, um, the areas that are off of Seminary Road, that's Belmont and Sage Fields. And then the areas that are off of Almville Road or Rocky Fork area. So the the more southern parts that's Hidden Valley, Blankeny, Saddle Grove, Brryley Down, River Ravier at Music City, and Tucker Point. So given some place names of of what's out there currently, that's elementary. Um if we go to the middle school, >> would you recommend some reasonzoning for elementary? Um, I think with what we're talking about with Stewarts Creek limits of what you

084can do for additions, bathrooms, all that stuff, that doesn't seem like a plausible good situation. So, um, definitely need to do something elementary. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I do as well. I don't like it, but I do as well. Trust me, I know the board has to vote, but I'm I'm as tired of dealing with resoning as anybody, too. And I think what could help what I'm hearing from you all is how do we start to set the plan for the areas where we know all this development. So it's like getting to work and thinking about what do we do in 2030 31. This is part of the conversation that Dr. Zen and I have been having is that when you go to the county it's like hey look we got

085to have this. You guys keep approving not the county but the cities in these areas approving um these developments. How do we have this planned out so that we have the land the sites needs to open in 3031 so we don't have the multiple >> and looking just and this is just me looking at it's just something that came to me I would probably if I have to make a recommendation I do I'd recommend concept one and I know that's right by Stewart's Creek but we have room Can you go to concept one in elementary real quick let me see the um enrollment projections Concept one by year 2030 31 leaves you more than a hundred open seats at Rock Springs Elementary stills. So at 2031, if you had to revisit something, you have quite

086a few open seats at Rock Springs Elementary that could shift Steuart's Creek Elementary's north end boundary if you had to. Who knows what things look like at that point, but just thinking five years ahead, you have open seats at the north end boundary. >> [snorts] >> So, >> just moves the most kids. >> Yes, Max. >> I'm sorry. I just want to make sure I'm getting your information correct here. You're saying Rock Springs concept one. >> Yep. And it may be very similar in concept two. I was just looking the most number of kids. >> Okay. About I think the numbers are exactly the same on Rock Springs. >> Yeah. But it leaves the most number of kids at a concept one. >> Okay. But again, it's you're looking it's it's not a large variance

087between the two. >> Looking five years out, who knows what those developments are going to do in the next five years. >> I hope they don't hit faster. So that's the elementary middle school. Um so in concept one there's a lot of changes in the middle schools because we have a lot of need right so when you go back to the current middle school projections where we're already over and it's only going to get worse. Um we have the new middle school opening. Um one of the things right then and there we're going to impact kids right they need to go to the new middle school um so we can alleviate um Stewart's Creek and Blackman. Um so as we look at um this boundary in the legend there's a lot of different moves that

088are happening in concept one. So basically I'm I'm just going to summarize some of the things here. There's there's a lot of changes, but Popular Hill uses Manson Pike and Wilkinson Pike to move south of I 840. Blackman loses that that finger that that goes to the south that we've been referring to as the finger, but they picked up some other neighborhoods along St. Andrews. Um, those would be like Franklin Heights, Evergreen Farms, Carrington Park, and Autumn Woods Apartments. As we zoom >> my clicker does I can't shine anything on there like dice there if there's use the mouse >> right there we go >> promise not to get any of your eyes out or something. All right. So, um this is that that finger area that we're talking about right through here um that

089goes to Blackman. And so in that particular area, um those are Franklin Heights, Evergreen Farms, and Carrington Park and Autumn Woods apartments. And then Popler Hill is this light green area that wraps around here. what this does with our projections. Um, again, it's still pretty messy, right? We we have a lot of capacity issues. Not saying either of these concepts resolves all of this because where the buildings are, where the students live, um some of our transportation would is really difficult to try to get kids to the building and not have them on buses longer than 45 minutes. Um but what we are able to achieve again to what Dr. Svin and I have been talking about this primary focus over the next two years um is we have three buildings that in this time

090period would still be over capacity. So Christristiana Middle, Rocky Fork Middle, and Smyrna Middle. And um each of them when you look at this is about a less than 100 kids I think in each of these buildings. Some are like less than 20. Um, so they're pretty close to what the capacity and number of students would be over the next two years. As we move into that future planning, um, what I wanted you to see is when we start to get to 94% 95% of our capacity at any of these grade bands, it's almost like you can't really do anything to solve the capacity. that indicates the need for more middle school capacity or like one of our other clients um up in Illinois, they just decided to change their class size um from 24

091to 30. Um that automatically changes the number of kids that you can put in a building, but that brings all together different issues. At the middle school, just like elementary, we have some things um that might be lunches and and whatnot. So, I just give you some things that we're seeing other districts try to do as they look at some of the costs or their ability to get land and and build facilities. Um, but as we look at each of uh these buildings as we get out to 2930, um you can see that um Smyrna Middle um they're over 150 students over what their capacity is. Um that one probably stands out the most. Um Rocky Fork is is still at about 75. So, we're kind of holding the line. Some of the buildings are

092just going to be over. It won't be perfect. Um, the only way we could get it perfect is if we went to something called enrollment capping. So, once we got to the capacity and I think we've done some things like that in the past. We start to send them someplace else. Um, but that creates again a transportation issue, right? Um, and an individual household issue when we do the enrollment capping, which is why we're trying to have zones that work. So, this is middle middle school concept one. um middle school concept two. Um so this is where um with Popular Hill, it goes into that pie wedge um there along 24. So that light green. And so um what that does is it extends down Old Fort Parkway. And so everything in Blackman High School

093is um in that downtown zone. Um, Blackman takes on everything west of Rucker Lane, south of Franklin Road. So that includes like Viewpoint, Time, Town Homes, Overall Creek, and Kingdom Crest. So that's that area where we come to where that finger is and it comes to um the west. >> What is that? >> So what does that do with the numbers um in the next two years? I mean, you can see it's only Christian Middle. That's um potentially over capacity and just slightly by seven kids. Right. Then as we move into 2829 um because of the changes for Blackman, you can see um there's a bubble class is what I would call that as they come in a a large class and then as they exit in 2930 um they get within their capacity. Um

094we look at Rock Springs Middle um they're about 150 kids over and they continue to grow um as we get to 30 31 over 200 students. Um and same thing with Rocky Fork, they go up over their capacity but then come back down. And then when we look at Stewart's Creek and Buchanan, um those two buildings when we get out to 2930, um start to get over their capacity. Initially Stewart's Creek just a little bit, but then by 3031 they're quite a bit over. Again, it's all the development in that area. Um some ways this is is is a little bit better. Um we look at the numbers and how much some of the buildings are over. Um, >> yes, go ahead. >> So, a couple between the two concepts, I definitely recommend concept two

095on this one. Um, it shifts our numbers pretty well. Again, I know it shifts a lot of parents. Miss Darby made a great point. Middle school kids. It's three years. All of our middle schools offer pretty much the same programming. Every middle school in our county is a level five middle school. the other portions that you were looking at. Again, we haven't reszoneed middle schools in nine years. The ones that are overcrowded outside of getting towards 2030 31 where we know we have a Lee Road property where we're going to need a middle and a high school. Everyone else is is close to where they're right where they need to be. If you can go back to the map, I want to explain a couple areas because this this is different. I know that there

096are areas that are north of the Seagull zone. Uh so in the orange and that area will get a lot of attention because that has been Seagull Middle since Seagull Middle opened. We are overcrowded at Seagull Middle School with a lot of the cottages at Seagull is what we call them. I think that's what we call them. Is that what we call them? The cottages at Seagull Middle. And we have an addition at Oakland Middle. So filling up Oakland Middle. We also have land at the Matthews property. To ever get a middle and a high school at the Matthews property, we have to fill the land the seats that we have. And so that's that's something that we have to be able to do. And so we do with Matthews property is in Walter Hill.

097So we need to use our seats at Oakland. You could use Cut Off Road instead potentially, but we were trying to match this with moving from Walter Hill to Wilson. you have a lot of Christian middle zone that is shifting to Witworth to Witworth has been there for I don't know 15 16 years and never really grown too much with enrollment. So this kind of stabilizes Witworth and makes all of our middle schools. It is tough for our middle school principles to have the largest middle school in the state at Blackman Middle and then have still big middle schools when you look across the state, but to have middle schools under 800 and middle schools almost at 1,800 operating the same programming. The Case and Lane downtown, we tried to match the high schools as

098much as possible. So, you're going to see some weird colors and go, why are they shifting? Why? We tried to match some of our dual zone Rockville areas. And then there's one piece that if you look at it, it's yellow and it looks like why is Witworth Buchanan crossing over? You have a new interchange now and I think it's Tommy Bragg that crosses over right behind Costco. That instead of going down Highway 99 in the middle of going towards the Rockville area, trying to get a little bit of that traffic out of the Rockville area um and getting back on the interstate and going to Witworth instead, opposite traffic. And so there are about 140 middle schools. I know that area is going to be a a change. It was either shifting that area to

099Christiana Middle, which we can tell is already overcrowded, or Witworth and Witworth had more room. >> Yeah. >> So, and the interstate was better than going down 231 in the morning. So, we decided to split downtown as well as split some of that Case and Lane area just because of the sheer volume of students. Uh there were well over 12,500 students in that case lane in between 96 and 99 in that Murphy'sboro corridor to the west. It was it was shocking how many students were in there. >> And you discussed this with the uh middle school principles as well and they all gave your recommendations. >> Oh yeah, multiple times we've met. >> Okay. [laughter] >> They're sitting over there. >> Miss Maxwell. >> Yes, Mr. Rosales. >> Okay. So, the Rockville zone is kind

100of interesting because there's a corner over by the 24. Is that downtown area? >> It is. It matches the high school. >> Is it what? >> It matches the high school. >> Okay. >> So, Rockville High School has that area. So, when you're looking at transportation, we tried to look at as much thing. I'm sure we missed something, but we look at everything we can. We already have a bus going for transportation for the high school, >> so picking up for middle school makes sense as well. >> Um, not to put you in the spot, Dr. But can you speak into that the Eagleville area that's currently black men middle but going to Eagleville? Why that area because we've looked at it trying to reszone it. Why it's reszone to Eagleville is it's you see

101where it's at points like this between Franklin Road on the other side that side. No. Go. >> We didn't we didn't change Eagleville. >> No, you did not. But I'm getting some questions >> over this side. This area here, Mr. Additional Blackman in Eagleville. Can you speak into that zone? >> Just shifting more students to Eagleville out of out of the Blackman area because it's too crowded. >> I'm sorry. >> Just shifting more students to Eagleville out of the Blackman area using I know that Blackman is probably closer looking that way, but you can get on 840 and come back 41 to get to Eagleville. So it's the overcrowding in black >> is kind of driving >> Yes. And that zone Yes. Absolutely. >> Mr. Tidwell. >> I'm sure we're going to get questions about

102this. I'm looking on the concept to numbers. Uh the projections page 22 here. Blackman Middle, Christiana Middle. Both of those they start off in 28 29 over capacity and then by tw 2030 31 they back they're both back below capacity. Yeah, >> that was just forecasting students, not as many students coming through from the elementary side or >> Yeah, it's it's the number of grades that are not yet in middle school and so there's a larger grade that works its way through actually a couple grades in that 28 29 that puts them over the capacity and then the grades that are coming up are a little bit smaller and so it pulls them back under that capacity. >> Very interesting. Thank you. Can I? >> Yes. Go ahead. M >> one point that I'll add

103to that, Mr. Tidwell, great question. Is the more schools that we do zone into Murphy'sboro, Murphy'sboro city limits, the more that there's that ability for sixth grade numbers to fluctuate a little bit. Right now, we've got Blackman, Rockville, little bit of Christianana, Seagull, Oakland, and I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody that hits into downtown where our city limits go. Now you've got Christian, Popppler Hill. they're going to hit some of that. So that your numbers depending if a parent chooses sixth grade at Murphy'sboro City or chooses us, it fluctuates even into September based on whether a kid makes a sports team or likes their teacher or all kinds of reasons. >> That makes sense. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Anyone else? >> You've done outstanding work, sir. Other questions then? >> Any other questions, comments? >>

104We spent a lot of time talking together, haven't we, Rob? >> Thank you. >> I want to thank uh >> Thank you, >> Jenna and Alyssa as well because I know that we've spent a lot of time with them. So, thank them as well. >> You bet. >> Just don't change your phone. >> He doesn't. >> Just don't have a phone. [laughter] >> I feel like your family. >> The same. the same. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. Next, moving on to human resources. >> Yeah. And just to hit real quick above that, um, Thursday is always one of my favorite things. We have our Stones River Brigade that's going to present how well our JOTC does. Um, and he'll present some data that is amazing that shows how well our JOTC program does in our

105our cadetses. But human resources collaborative conferencing committee pursuant to section 495605. Board of education is required to appoint management personnel to serve in a committee following majority vote in favor of collaborative conferencing. Our district committee would be Andre Anthony, Kelly Chastain, Brian Sears, Brian Lewis, Suzan Freeze, Lon Murray, and Larry Creasy. >> I got a question. >> Yes. >> What is who they going to collaborate with? >> That team and then it comes before the board after that. So they whoever um have they had their vote yet >> about who they represent? So they have you want to go over that process a little bit? >> So what we do after Thanksgiving because they brought the uh information where that the employees are wanting to go into the collaborative conferencing the process what they're doing

106is um they're going to be doing a week-long vote and this is what we do every three years. And during that time, if they're an a certified employee, they're able to vote whether they want REA to represent them, PET, or they want someone unaffiliated. And based upon the percentage of uh that each person gets, majority of the time it winds up being with REA, but sometimes there could be a representative from PET. So once that um final scoring of of who is uh recommended to represent the employees, then they'll assess a percentage of who represents them out of their group. So they'll have also have a group the same size as ours based on that population. This last time it happened to be all REA. >> Okay. Thank you, Miss Shark. Thank you. Am I

107remembering correct correctly that Miss Bratton Sheila Bratton was on this before? Didn't we have a board member? And I thought I thought that it was her. Am I? I don't know. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. >> Is there a chance to do away with REA? >> No, sir. They're affiliated with uh TEA and uh the National Education Association. are part of that tier system. >> That was the >> I'm not going to make any comments, but >> not unless state law changes with collaborative conferencing. >> Yes, m we there was and I didn't I don't remember who um um gave us a resolution for to removing the collaborative conferencing. That one got pretty pretty testy. So yeah, it didn't pass. It did not pass at TSBA this past weekend. Okay, any other

108questions? Moving on. Number nine. >> All right, Seagull High School is requesting authorization to begin the process with Cambridge International. Cambridge is comprehensive pre-K12 academic program that includes world-class curriculum assessment, teacher resources, PD and more uh culminates in college credit at the advanced level. Cambridge offers over 50 courses at the high school level and a wide range of subjects, CT, humanities, language, steam, and they're taught by seagull teachers. Cambridge pathway prepares students for both college and careers through skills content 21st century learning. Cambridge currently partners with 10,000 schools in 160 countries and has strong higher credit policies for state of Tennessee. Cambridge can help to make a positive impact on state and federal graduation measures early post-secary opportunities or EPs. Cambridge as a levels qualify for the following EPSO status in the Tennessee ready graduate

109Tennessee report card indicator or T and TISA outcomes funding. questions or comments? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, Mr. Vaughn. >> Um, I've got a clarif clarification question, I guess. When I was principal Oakland High School, the international back to art program was approved. At that time, the school board said that no other school could have a program in competition with the IB program. Now, this program is um it's the only program in the county so far that's in competition with IB dual enrollment and all like that is there's no comparison. No, uh there's no competition with that. But again, you know, we've got I don't see the one um if the board approved back then not to do it, how can this be done? >> Well, how many high schools have we built since the

110IB program was granted to Oakland? >> Rock Mountain Stewart's Creek. And any board can take any action after another board. Um the other >> do what? >> Any board can take another action after another board can. So any this board can undo any action that a previous board or take an action that supersedes the current motion would supersede any previous board action. We also had Cambridge at Smyrna High School. So it was there in 201 18 I believe is when >> but they did away with it right >> they've dropped it. >> They did. So, I mean, you got Smyrna, you got uh Central Magnet, you got the Oakland IB, and now you want to put this same program right there at Seagull. To me, it just doesn't it just doesn't make sense. I don't

111I don't understand the reasoning for it because the opportunities are there and uh I don't know. I I just think you're drawing, you know, students from other schools. That's that's unfair to Oakland, unfair to Central Magic. And so, in other words, what you're saying is that what we vote on the the next board can come up and undo everything we do. >> Correct. Yes. >> Pretty much. Yeah. >> So, really, what we're doing doesn't really matter. It matters during your term. >> It matters during your term. It >> matters during our term. So, we better make hay while the sun shines, right? >> Yes. M >> Darby. >> Yeah. >> Do we know why Smyrna ended it? >> Yeah. They felt it was in competition with their BETHL program that they had with dual enrollment.

112>> Okay. >> I could I'm sorry. I can't hear. >> Competition with BETHL with their dual enrollment. If they think dual enrollment in this is the same thing, they're wrong. I don't >> in regards to uh Mr. Ron's point, I I don't know that we want to start restricting any of our schools in terms of things that are beneficial for our students. As much as you're saying it would be unfair for Seagull to have it, Seagull could say it's unfair for Oakland to have the IB program. So, it's a service to our students. It's a way to elevate their education and if Seagull wants to take it on and make it successful, I say more power to them. >> I think the county has grown a lot since then and I think our parents want

113all of the high schools. I'm always telling people all of our high schools have excellent programs uh from vocational high-end academics and this is an high-end respected program similar to IB. All of our kids should have an opportunity and not everybody's going to be able to go to Oakland or to Central Magnet. But we have kids that can perform at that level and their parents want this. So I I I don't think this will hurt. I think we're too big now. this is not going to hurt any of our >> I think it's it's beneficial for them to have not everybody can drive to Oakland. So it gives those in that same area that maybe can't make it that far a different opportunity for something similar. I think it's the same thing. You know, there

114are a lot of kids that depend on programs like that, if they don't make it into a school like Central, then they're looking for something that's elevated from traditional education still. So I think it's just another good addition to our school system. Yes, Miss Short. >> And we also have Blackman Collegiian Academy. That's a fabulous program. So, they're they're not the only programs that are here. >> I don't think I don't think one program is is is going to hurt another school. I think each school can stand alone with their programs. And uh that's why I'm glad to represent Rutherford County because I really think we need to have these kind of programs at all of our high schools. Um, you know, we're all competitive and I understand that. That's great, but our students and

115our families want these and desire these programs and I'm glad we can offer them. >> They got dual enrollment. They got >> dual enrollment is not the same as IB or K. >> That's exactly none of these are the same as IB. I don't care what you say, Mr. U. the the kids that go through the IB program can go anywhere in the country. When we started IB starts the number one program across the world is international backard program. now. Um, and so that's why we started that program. And Vanderbilt University doesn't give full rides to kids because they're in the Blackman Collegiate Academy or the And they don't give scholarships for that. Um, Mr. involved. I think if I'm not mistaken, I believe you had a child that went through the IV program. >>

116Yes, sir. >> And there's some word out there, there's some communication that kids aren't getting the full diploma from Oakland High School, which is absolutely false. There's been 96 kids got the full diploma for the IB program in the last four years. So the people that are putting that word out is incorrect. >> I haven't heard that. >> And do what? >> I hadn't heard that. >> You had heard that? >> Not at all. >> Miss, >> Mr. thought that did that your son where did he go to school? [laughter] >> Jackson was one I think Mr. involved. If I remember right, Jackson was one of the first ones to ever get the diploma and and he did and he was fortunate enough to get selected for the Cornelius Vanderbilt scholarship at Vanderbilt University and

117also graduated as Vanderbilt's uh outstanding senior. So, I have to believe that the IB program at Oakland High School was a direct reflection of his collegiate uh education. I I would say this. I think probably I'm guessing that the board's infinite wisdom at that time when the IB program was started or much like the magnet school program was started. I think you kind of call a timeout maybe in the county and you don't start so many programs at one time. That way you garner success with whichever I think the IB program has been fantastic. I think the magnet school program has been fantastic. You know, as the chairman has stated, maybe the county has gotten big enough now that we can justify another program. I don't think it's a slight toward the IB or the

118magnet program, either one. But u um and I thank you for that. I I I have told Butch this many many times that he saved me tens of thousands [laughter] of dollars hundreds of thousands of dollars in scholarship money. But anyway, it's I never knew anything about it, but it was a very rigorous program, but Cambridge I'm sure has got its attributes also. So, uh much like the rest of the board, I think we can justify too in the county. >> Can I? >> Yes, Dr. Salt. Yeah, I would ultimately I wouldn't have it on here if I didn't support it. Um I don't want to do anything of course to hurt any of our schools, but my job is to promote our entire district and anything we can do to promote all of our

119schools. We have we have over 19,000 high school students and so we've got we have grown large enough that we can promote opportunities is it it is ridiculous needed 19,000 high school students alone. Um >> yeah, >> Miss Maxwell. >> Yes, Mr. Ross. Does Sew Creek have a back or it or >> No. >> So, how can we get them also to include something like this? Because I with this one of the biggest issues we have is that we don't have enough magnet schools. As big as we are, we don't have the luxury of >> Stewart Creek's overcrowded. So, a lot of it has to do with open seats and Seagull High is currently dual zoned and so we are not over capacity there. Well, Blackman was I mean, I'm not trying to do anything

120back and forth or anything, but Black Men is overcrowded and they still have the balorate program. >> They do. >> So, I do what now? >> They have their balorate program. >> What? >> Black men high school. >> They don't have black. Nope. >> And I Blackman Collegiate Academy is not nationally recognized. It's local. >> So, how can we and that's something that um >> and Black MC Collegiate Academy is amazing. I'm just saying that is when you get into the >> Yes, it is. >> Yes. When you get into the distinctions, they're all amazing. Cambridge and IB, you have to be you have to be in black zone to be. So why can't there be something like that for Sewers Creek where they have to be zoned in there to have that as kind

121of I'm looking from the equitable. >> Every school has their own. >> That's the every school. Every school already has their own type of soers has their own arts academy that you have to be zoned in there. Lever accepts outside with their early college program. >> Um Riverdale has their honors college. Everybody's got something already. >> And how will we get to um get the program at Blackbank? Because that that was something that the principal who started that has been had worked to get the accredited. So what is it? I don't know how this all works. There is no national accreditation for it. >> Gary Nixon started it back when he was first principal of Blackman High School and I was at Blackman Middle and we worked together to do that. And uh you know

122the thing that people don't understand the IB program is, you know, you go to Ivy League school or you go to Vanderbilt, you go to any place and if you got IB diploma, they'll give you a full ride. That's how much they believe in it. They told us it was the number one academic program in the world. Now, Black Collegiate Academy is great. It's a great academic program, >> but you're not going to get a, you know, colleges don't really recognize that as anything different than >> any other make a change of that, >> right? >> Hey guys, I I apologize, but I would like to take a 5m minute bathroom break right now. This has gotten a little bit long. I know we're almost towards the end, but I would like as the chair

123I would like to take a fivem minute recess for the restrooms, please. >> Second Okay, next we have the >> Oh, can I ask one question? >> Yes. >> Just out of curiosity, what what does that Cambridge program cost? >> I'll find out with Dr. Chastain. She'll be here Thursday. >> I'll have that for you Thursday. >> So, can every school in the county >> Yes. thing. Do it if it want to >> be the same as IB. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Tissa account Accountability. >> So, this lines um part of TCA 49312 and the um board has a copy of this. School districts of Tennessee are required to present their Tennessee investment in student achievement or TISA accountability report for public review and comment and board approval prior to being submitted to the Tennessee

124Department of Education. TA accountability report will be reviewed annually to determine whether a school district is taking proper steps to achieve their stated goals. The report will be submitted annually to TDOE in November since this was our board meeting in November. Um these just basically go over our stats of starting proficiency and advanced going all the way through 2030. So happy to discuss that further. >> Anybody got any questions or comments to this? >> Okay. [snorts] Okay. Next we have legal. >> This is the first reading of two readings. The below policies are recommended on the first reading. These policies will be brought brought at the next scheduled board meeting for a second and final reading. Board policy 1.703 school attendance zones and exemptions as requirement of primary doicile to be in Rutherford County at

125the time of application. B policy 3.206 community use of school facilities as language to allow deposits to secure school facilities. C policy 4.601 601 reporting student progress removes driver's license revocation to align with state law. D policy 4.605 graduation requirements adds computer science credits starting with the 2425 school year to align with state rules and regulations. E policy 6.204 attendance of non-resident students adds language to exempt school choice schools from early admission. and F policy 6.701 student solicitations fundraising activities and adds language for online fundraising and this again is the first reading we'll have the second reading December 11th >> okay any comments or questions there >> okay >> let me one question about the u let's see the technology computer science creative is that going to affect >> is that what >> that's going

126not going to affect uh >> when they can graduate and all that. >> Okay. >> Nope. >> Okay. Next. Number two, we have discipline here. >> Yep. The we have several um discipline, but this is the only discipline hearing appeal 251101. Boards and requested review a decision of the director of schools. Disciplinary hearing authority appealed the school's decision to zero tolerance of a student from Eagle School. Director of schools modified the offense to a remand based on a review of the record of the DHA and the director of schools. The board may a affirm the decision of the director of schools, b overturn the decision of the director of schools, or c grant a hearing. So, it was zero tolerance. I did modify to a room. >> Okay. Any questions? Next, >> we have a

127couple transfers under discipline. The first one, the board's been requested to admit a transfer student from another school system under discipline. The student was remained for possession of THC. According to policy 6.318, the board may deny admissions of any student except those in state custody when student transfers from another school system under suspicion or expulsion. Record school's recommendations to deny. [snorts] >> Okay. Number three, >> transfer student under discipline two. The board's been requested to admit a transfer student from another school system under discipline. Student was placed at an alternative learning center for a student assault. According to policy 6.318, the board may deny admissions of any student except those in state custody when a student transfers from another school system under suspension or expulsion. and director of schools recommendations to deny. >> Okay. Number

12811, engineering and construction. >> Several things here. Murphy'sboro water and sewer request for land purchase at Seagull High. As part of the Thompson Lane T dot road widening project, Murphy'sboro water and sewer department will be required to make waterline adjustments. They provided drawings and the appropriate land purchase documents for approval. The valued offer is 4,000 almost said 4 million. That would have been amazing. 4,746.65 65 cents for both permanent and temporary easements. Engineering construction reviewed the request and has no objection. >> You think we could round that up to five? >> I was [laughter] I did too. I just went 4 million. That's great. Great job, Trey. I don't know what we're getting out of that, but awesome job. >> I still think we could round that up to five. >> Okay. Number two, >>

129Oakland High School change order number one, engineering construction with input from Principal John Marshall. request to utilize 500,000 of available [laughter] site construction funds to address additional renovation of areas inside the existing building. This work will include additional flooring, ceiling replacement, additional fire alarm replacement and paint. Works been reviewed by GMC Architecture and the cost approved. This is not a request for additional funds, but the reallocation of unused site funds for the project. Engineering Construction has reviewed the request and has no objection. I do want to note Riverdale had a change order for 450, nope, 550,000. However, Oakland's project overall is above the cost for Riverdale. Um, I hate that the utilities cost more at Oakland than they did Riverdale, but the overall cost for the project cost more, which is why Riverdale had 550,000

130allocated and Oakland only had 500,000 allocated. So, in case you're contacted, do you want to hit some of that? No. >> Some of the furniture and some of the programs at Oakland was different than Riverdale and some of that cost was higher, too. So, our overall cost, we've actually expended more money at Oakland. This is just the work that the contractor did. >> Yep. Because normally we try to keep them exactly the same, >> but there if you go back in the minutes, you will see 50,000 more for Riverdale than Oakland. >> I got question, >> the the old bathrooms out there, you know, have they been redone at Oakland? >> Has what been redone? Though bathrooms, she's not down there. >> Yes, sir. They have been. >> Yes, sir. That's part of this project.

131We're completing all of the bathrooms at Riverdale and Oakland. >> Oh, okay. >> So, that won't have to come out of this money. Correct. >> It's part of this. Yes. >> Okay. >> Any other questions or comments? >> Okay. Next. >> All right. Next. Town of Smyrna Cedarstone sewer realignment request. Town of Smyrna is undertaken an extension of the sewer system along Morton Road. In doing so, the city has determined a portion of the sewer on RCS property is under the wing walls of the bridge. They request relocation of this section while making adjustments for this project. This adjustment will not affect the roadways or service RCS. Will require an updated easement agreement. Engineering construction read the request and has no objections. >> Any questions or comments? Okay. Number four, >> transportation contract termination of

132bus 96 pursuant to section 8.1 of the Rutherford County Board of Education bus contract. Transportation Department received a letter dated November 4th, 2025 from Angela Gilly, contractor for bus 96, requesting voluntary termination of her contract with the board. She stated her termination date is December 1st, 2025. Based on previous board approval, there would be a return of insurance stipenment funding for insurance to RCS of $2,399.76. >> Okay. Number five. >> Yes, Mr. Bot. >> All right. Question. the the the balance of that insurance and I think it's one reason we kind of set it up this way. Would that go to the new contractor uh that's going to replace that route? >> That would be a finance thing, but I think it would go back in the general fund and then they would issue a

133>> $4,000 check to the new person. >> You you Okay. So, >> you can't prrate the purchase of the insurance going forward because theirs is going to be for three years or I mean for the whole year. for a year. >> If it's an existing contractor, there's a possibility >> that in theory their insurance could be less, but we have no mechanism to request that information. >> I'm with you. >> They're with they get $4,000. >> Yeah. But I want to talk to finance before. >> Yeah. That that was my only concern, which leads me to I do under discussion. I want to bring up something about insurance. >> Okay. >> Uh you have any trouble getting these routes picked up, brother? We're going to discuss that in a few minutes, too. >> All right.

134[laughter] >> Number five, >> transportation contract termination bus 2011. U pursuant to section 8.1 of the Ratherford County Board of Education bus contract. Transportation department received the letter date of September 22nd, 2025 from Christy Taylor, contractor for bus 2011, requesting voluntary termination of her contract with the board. She has stated her termination dates November 30th, 2025. Last date to drive is November 21st, 2025. Based on previous board approval, there' be a return of insurance stipen funding for insurance to RCS of $2,421.98. >> Okay. Number six. >> On September 24th, transportation department emailed all contractors with a new route awarding procedure and application for existing contractors. Deadline for applications was October 14th and there were 11 applicants. We received calls from a few contractors that the eer did not read the information or the information went

135to their junk mail or did they not understand that the board initiated a new procedure for awarding routes per the procedure 3.4 pages 3 through five. We're prepared to begin the new awarding process but want the board to be aware of the situation prior to receiving calls. So Mr. Palm, we're back to your question and I'm going to explain this as best I can. On September 24th, right after the board meeting, if y'all remember, we went through how we were going to do that and y'all approved the pro policy and procedure. The next day, we sent out an email to all contractors with that procedure as an attachment. That said, if you want to be part of the new route awarding for this year, fill out this form and send it back. We had 11

136people do it. We got ready to start doing the random drawing and our phones started ringing. Well, wait a minute. I didn't get my name in. Wait a minute. I didn't get my name in. And we said, "Did you get this email?" "Well, yeah, but I didn't read it." Wh What What do you mean the route awardings change? We go by seniority. This is the way we do it. And I said, "Nope. Board changed all that. We sent y'all an email on September 24th." So, the reason I'm bringing this to you tonight is I'm going to give you two options. We're going to ride with we sent an email out on September 24th and I got 11 qualified contractors that want new routes and that's our list. or we can go back to everybody gets

137a chance and I can send out another email on y'all's behalf that says you didn't read the first one. Here's the second one. If you want to join and be a part of the route awarding process, you need to fill out the form and give them 10 days or 15 days to send me the form. Choice is yours. We've already fulfilled what the policy and procedure says, but I don't want your phones to start ringing going, "We didn't get a chance." And then next time we're back in here trying to decide how to undo it. So before we move forward, I'm asking what you all would like to do. the comment. I mean, I think it'd be uh tremendously unfair to the 11 people that did read and did what you told them to do

138to undo all of it and do it all over again. That's just that's just me. Yes, sir. We've lost the >> Okay. I'm sorry. I couldn't see her. [laughter] Somebody run this meeting. >> I'm sorry. [laughter] >> H how many basically I mean we changed policy for the for the power hour but so what how many have you had call or that would be >> maybe a half a dozen but I'm not saying that the others haven't still don't know that we've changed. >> Right. Right. So when are you trying to accomplish this? Well, right now I've got open routes and I've had open routes since September. >> So, ASAP ASAP. So, we make a decision. >> So, if you would like for us to send out another email, I'll be glad to ask Mr.

139Johnson's team to do so, but I'm going to give them a short window to respond. And if they don't, we're moving on. >> I mean, theoretically, if we if we changed it Thursday night, tell them to have it in by December 1. >> I'd give them a week. We could if you [clears throat] change it Thursday night, I'm going to ask >> transportation to send an email out Friday morning and give them to the next Thursday afternoon. >> A lot of times in life, you don't get a second chance, but if if we decide we want to give them a second chance, it needs to be quick. >> Yes, sir. That's what I'm saying. Okay, we'll handle that. >> And we'll do whatever you all would like. But I I I do did want to

140bring it to your attention because I thought, well, I can be obstinate >> and just go ahead and start awarding routes. But then >> phone the phone ring. Thank you. Thank you for thinking of us. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Madame Chairman. >> Any other questions? Anybody else? >> Madam Chairman. >> Hi. >> Um I I'm along the lines of just giving another opportunity here. I I obviously some of these emails probably went to junk mail or something like that too. There's probably other circumstances other than them just particularly ignoring it. I'm sure some did that as well, but I'm open to it as long as we can make it a quick turnaround. It doesn't really hold up the process. Then we can go back and say that there was nothing that we did that

141was we didn't give them enough opportunity. We gave you two opportunities. That's plenty. Uh I'm good with making that recommendation. [snorts] >> Anybody else want to speak? Yes, Mr. Vaughn. >> I just got concerns really for the the 11 that did what they were supposed to do. You opened it back up now. They don't get the routes. To me, that's just unfair. I I don't know. >> Well, it's a new change. And so, when there's change, there's always pain to, you know, there's a little bit of a pain in the beginning. All right. So the next thing is communications report. >> That'll be Thursday night. Okay. Uh co- potential closing. Is that something that you need? >> Yeah. Central office potential closing last at least three or four years. We close the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.

142Um the county closes on Veterans Day. We are open on Veterans Day. Uh the if it's because it is not a official state holiday. the courthouse decides what they do on Wednesday, usually before whether they go home early or not, our payroll, in order for payroll department to know, they have to know by the 21st. And so because of when our payroll runs and so we would appreciate it, but regardless, we'll we'll take whatever the board decides. But last couple years, we've it's our central office that closes. >> Mr. Vont, were you saying something? >> Yes, it is. Mr. Tidwell. >> Yes. Uh we've done this historically in the past. I don't see any issue with it. >> Thank you. >> So we need to take a motion on Thursday about that. >> Okay. I

143think is Milford City Schools is closed as well on Wednesday. Do you know their staff? >> I know. I have no idea what their staff does. >> Well, I I know you don't know cuz >> no clue, >> but just trying to stay cons I know we try to do similar things. >> All right. >> That's okay. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. Director's update. Uh Trey, do you want to go over the other item? Transportation or Mr. Reid? >> Good. Okay. >> We sent the um director we we discussed at a previous board meeting that we had some route descriptions that we had not received. Uh and we discussed that there was um um it's section 2.6D 6D uh of the contract that um to provide this and it says that and it said that we

144could withhold their money, but the board asked that we not do that. We we sent out another email on October 17th um asking for the route descriptions for the second time. Um we still have a number that have not turned in those um route descriptions for us. So at this point with the board's authorization, we can begin to withhold the money or you guys can direct us on how you would like us to move forward now because we it help we need these route descriptions to verify our routes. Yes, Miss Darby. Have you gotten any response from them or has it just been crickets? >> Uh, we've we've got one or two, but the rest has been crickets. >> Has anybody tried calling them to see if there's and they're not like there's no communication?

145>> We've talked to most of them and they felt like it's not required. >> Okay, good to know. >> [laughter] >> And Mr. Johnson has tried as well. Correct. Because you've >> Yeah. At this point, we do feel this is intentional. This is intentional. This is not We missed this deadline. It was, you know, it's intentional. >> Sorry, Mr. >> How many, Trey? >> 11. >> Uh, contractors around 11. It's a different 11, but it's about 31 or two routes. >> The board like for me to send you the list. Has anybody been removed from that list as of yesterday? >> No, sir. >> Okay. I'll send the board list as soon as we're done of the routes. >> Thank you. >> Did we discuss I apologize for having step out. Okay. Um, can we

146get to general discussion? >> Yes, Mr. Bot. U one thing I need a little feedback on I think if if you remember and this goes along with transportation on the uh bus drivers, the contractors and all that. In this year's contract, we put a stipen in there for insurance and we also asked the county insurance. Um and Jeff may want to comment on this. I I don't know. There was confusion early on. Could could the county continue to furnish liability insurance? Could they not? You know, when the county bid the insurance out this past year, they left the school buses out cuz they were under the impression. Likewise, myself, if you read the statute, the law, it kind of leans you that away, but I think we came to the conclusion maybe the county could

147furnish the insurance. Um, not putting you on the spot, but >> where the law was changed. >> Yeah, the law changed. And >> and and so we we believe now we we could furnish it. Is that is that what we believe? And so here's my question to the board. The county is fast approaching putting their bid specs together. Uh, do we want to um go back and and request the the, you know, county finance, insurance, health and ed, you know, I think it's a big decision, you know, going one way or the other. Are we in, are we out? But we we don't need to let this slip up on us, you know, June 1st, May 1st, and say, "Oh, I wish we'd have done this." It takes them about six months to put everything

148together. So I kind of I'm I guess I'm looking for a little direction from the board. You know, do we we we had requested them to do the six month. No, there were if I remember correctly, there was nine companies approached and none of them bid. None of them offered insurance. And so um you know what's the will of the board? I guess we need we need to notify the county commission, I think, where it's not left out again this year if that's something we want to offer the contractors. Does that make sense? I just don't want I I just don't want this deadline to slip up on us. >> So, I thought I'd bring it up tonight. >> Thank you, sir. Yes, Mr. Table. >> I really appreciate you bringing that up, Mr. VA.

149Uh I I think that that would be a great thing for us to do. I think one of the issues that because of the change in state law, the reason so many insurers uh insurers did not decided not to um take on the the contractors was because it wasn't included in the county budget. I think if it was included in like it had done in historical precedent before be included in the county budget, I think that'd be more likely to get picked up. And it's costing at least from when we were having all these conversations, it's costing the school school district about $250,000 each year by going to the stipen way versus what we had before. So I would be certainly for it. Um if we can go ahead and put that back on the

150radar, I think that'd be great. >> Excellent. Anything else? Yes, Miss Sharp. >> Um Mr. uh Mr. Marie, do you have an update on the Lee Road property? >> Um, yes. There I've talked to the attorney actually today. So, he's progressing along with his paperwork that he needs to be done with the court to get all that closed. So, everything's coming along fine on that. >> Okay. And is there a closing date? >> Pardon? >> Are we going to do we need to vote on that again? Is there a closing date? >> There's nothing to There's nothing to vote on. The county the school board the board has already approved the purchase. This board has approved it and the county commission has approved the funding. So, no other votes on it. >> Okay. So, um

151that I've got a few more things. Does anybody else have any anything for Mr. Lee? I'm done. I'm done. Re >> Sorry, Mr. Reed. Um we had some legal things I had asked you about. Will we be going into executive session today or Thursday to get an update on that? >> Thursday. Thank you. >> Yes, Mr. Short. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. So, um, Leverne Middle, I visited with the teacher that was, um, head of the Men of Distinction, and they're looking for shirts with ties. They can be white, they can be colored. They're teaching the young men how to dress and tie ties. So, if you need that information or if you want to drop off some shirts and some ties at Lever Middle, they would greatly appreciate it. [cough] Excuse me. Also, Leverne

152Lake did their first amazing shake. >> Yeah. >> On Monday, and I think that they're going to have some that will probably I'm going to say they're going to make it to Atlanta. So, they did they did a great job. So, thank you. >> Okay. [cough] Anything else? Okay, we done. Is there any other comments or discussion there? So, okay. Otherwise, Mr. Darby move to