001This meeting has been duly called and that a notice of this meeting has been posted in accordance with the Texas Open Meeting Act, Texas Government Code Chapter 551. Please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be available for public access. You guys got a prayer for us? Yes, sir. Lord, thank you for today. Thank you for the blessings on our district board. We ask that you be with the family that's grieving tonight and tomorrow as they go through the funeral and delivery. We ask that you continue to bless us and guide our decisions in your name. All right, so we're down to it. We got one action item, discuss and take possible action regarding board policy EIC local. I move to discuss and take possible action regarding board policy EIC local. Second.
002So, EIC local, there's a lot more to it than where it just says current policy, but this is the part that we have any issues with right now. It's our policy as it relates to GPA, graduation rankings, and specifically walking order. The paragraph that's up at the top that says um current policy is our what we have for our walking order right now. For the purpose of determining honors to be conferred during graduation activities, the district shall calculate class rank in accordance with the policy and administrative regulations by using grades available at the time of calculation at the end of the fifth six-week grading period of the senior year. The problem we have is that not all of our grades are in because the students do not have averages from those professors in the computer
003system yet. The computer looks at it and counts it as a zero, which takes a student who is trying hard, willing to do the right thing in an honors class, and plummets their GPA. We've never counted them as a zero, we don't, but there's nothing in policy that specifically says we don't. And so, I think if anybody ever came and questioned us, we don't have a leg to stand on because it doesn't say. The leg that we kind of stand on is, well, we don't have a grade there. But, the computer says there's a grade there. So, we are manually removing something that our computer checking system says exists. Can I ask you a question? So, I wonder how we did it in the past so we've just manipulated students in the past year even
004though we shouldn't >> Correct. Now, we're just making sure that what we do is allowed or not. Correct. Correct. So, we still are using the fifth six weeks? >> Yes, ma'am. And we're just not counting that honors class or that more class? That is one option. Currently we it is not helping them or really hurting them if you want to say that other than it could be hurting them if that grade was a grade that could actually help them. Right. Honors Even though I better it's not it's not necessarily I don't want to overstate or whatever, but I've had ones here that they can look visually to see what the computer's doing. Okay. It's up to you. >> I'll I'll just have a simple way to look at it is that if we take it
005out, you're losing from the numerator and the denominator. Yeah. And so, it's mathematically it comes out in the wash. Right now, they're getting nothing in the numerator and it's adding a class into the denominator. Our computer didn't display it. But, y'all are taking it out. But, we're taking it out. We have a class. We're manually taking that out. We have manually taken it out. So, it doesn't So, that's what we need a policy that says we're going to take it out. You're right. Or are we going to say that? Is that how they handle it? No, it's not just a doable It is not just a doable thing. So, Ms. Bowlin and I went to researching. We have found five different ways that people handle this. Our recommendation, which on here says option A is
006that we keep the current policy but add in courses in progress for which an average has not yet been received including dual credit shall not be included in the calculation for graduation ceremony. So it keeps everything the same. That's what Hampshire does. That's what Austin does. And it's very similar to Bridge City. They The only difference between that and Bridge City's Bridge City has an MOU with Lamar to get immediate grades that we don't currently have. That's something we can work on but for this year there's no way to go back. They don't keep a gradebook like our teachers do to say, "Okay, at the end of the six weeks Johnny's grade was X Y or Z." So that's not an option. >> So let me ask you this and I think I know the
007answer since we've already got we're going to take it out. Is this going to affect anybody this year in their ranking? No, ma'am. We we've The the the top 10% and the top 1 2 3 4 stay the same no matter which order we do this. Uh we we can pick >> Cuz I I don't know I don't want to change it now >> Correct. and it affects this year's Correct. But at the at the 11th hour correct. No, you do not want to do that. That's part of why I think this is a good time to make this decision is no matter what we do it stays the same. So if we if we adopt A which is what Miss Boutte and I are recommending it's the same. If we've got a problem with
008A and we want to look at one of the other options the kids are in the same order. Uh So there's there's a good way to do it or not. Number one out and number two out and number three out or because we decided that this 11th hour was to change policy. Yes, ma'am. And basically he's asking you to put wording in policy to back that the way it should correctly be done. Yes. The house is in order I think so. So to make sure that you have a B We just do not punish them for trying hard. We just need policy that backs it up. Correct. Miss Balden, I think so. Our reasoning is is that a lot of the other ways we're worried about it creating a bad second semester for teachers and
009students. If either one My policy being it cuts in that semester. Now, we can tell these kids till we're blue in the face your second semester still counts to your final spot could be different. It could affect your college. It could affect your scholarships. But now you're the walking spot is locked. They done. Senior artist is for real. So, we don't we don't think cutting it semester is a good idea. Another one gets the college to send temporary grades. I have a problem with that when the kids are taking embedded classes from our teachers, those grades are not temporary. And I I just I know my college professors that I'm dealing with right now, they just fluff grades until you get to that final essay. You know, or something. And so, I worry about a
010temporary grade accidentally inflating a kid if and Different than the final Is this Is this specific to Lamar or would this be any This would be any college. Went through the same thing with UT on Ranson Bridge City. Um Option D, it says for only completed courses. That was I'm trying to remember whose wording that was. H J's wording maybe. My worry then is that um You could have a kid and this wouldn't affect the top 10% but you could have a kid that had failed a course or was doing something in a makeup situation where taking that non-completed course out of the denominator accidentally bumps them up the portal and moves the kid out that needs to be in that top 25 or top 50% Um and they get bumped out because another kid
011is making something up, well really they should have that shouldn't help you to be making something up that you've already not completed, you know? And so I don't I didn't like the only completed grades, that scared me um with that wording too guys. Again, you could have an Edgenuity kid Correct. and he does something late and it then it didn't work out bumps them up. And Lamar has those um There's no >> eight-week courses. There was a spring eight-week one that would be completed. And if you were in spring eight-week two, that's not completed. So that's not really you know? And we're trying to move towards more embedded courses with face-to-face. Like Nita Stewart is face-to-face. Oh. Hopefully my senior English next year will be face-to-face. The last option there, option E is what Edgenuity
012does. They wait until after finals at the college to put their rank out. My concern then is we're behind everybody in New Hanover County. They might be taking the wrong kids to honors luncheons because honors lunch is Next Wednesday. Next Wednesday. Finals are not due until after that. We would be guessing. We would go off first semester, but it might not be the right kids at all and I So, how many courses are we talking about per kid? I don't Okay. I can tell you just in the top 10 or quartile one student was missing four courses one student is missing four courses one student is only missing one course. So see how unfair that is already? This student is missing four grades, this student is only missing one. Um I hate to use the
013word fair, but I don't know. Here's a student that's only missing one. Here's a student that's missing three. I I think I know what they mean by taking the max before. They can take up to 15 hours a semester, so that could be five. They can take up to 15 hours, really? So, five if they did the max. So, it's saying that their college courses that they're taking are not That's assuming they're all semester, not going to be the eight weeks. Right. It does count for the final. There is a difference between the local graduation honors for walking and then final rank. Because the final final rank is what happens the week after school ends. We don't send out [clears throat] final transcripts until after school ends because it's got dual credit grades, it's got
014if you had to take your >> seen like your valedictorian get knocked out? Yes, so you used to essentially could have a salutatorian be valedictorian after graduation. Essentially? I I I've never seen that. I've seen >> I've seen a two and three switch. I've seen a two and a three switch. I've seen Personally, I went from 27 to 22. I moved up five spots from where I walked to where I graduated because I beat everybody on my senior research paper. I was at my high school counselor a couple years ago for a situation where the boy who gave the salutatorian speech, cuz he was number two after fifth six weeks, gave the salutatorian speech. But when we did final final, two and three switched. But really the end of the day, there's really no way
015of There's no way to stop that. You have to wait until the final. Yeah. You have to wait and like keep it out and wait for the final. Cuz this is protecting like doing this is protecting the kids, you know, you know, like having if they can fall back. For what? To wait? Just uh taking a graduate to stop on it. No, it wouldn't it wouldn't go to Graduation they'll have it before graduation. What we're saying is the only drawback I've heard so far is we may miss it bringing kids to the honors luncheon. I also say there's a negative on families when you're talking about getting information out there. But that has been counted since we got back from spring break because our policy currently says six weeks. So we came back from spring
016break, report cards went out that week of spring break, and I've been called, hounded, by multiple families, students, newspapers. I think y'all got a lot of years one on one time. But I even held it, I even held it until cuz we we've been talking about this, and I I finally, if you notice, I I made a a social media Facebook this weekend, but I would not put the walking order. I only put talk to Mr. Because I needed to feel I wanted to confirm before I said this is where our valedictorian is. Is this the valedictorian? You're giving the speeches. This is number three, four, five. I just stated that that's the way I mean I understand your point, you know, and that we would be behind and all that, but I just I
017would have hate to know that at the end of the day, June whatever, that I was salutatorian and I didn't get to give that speech. And I wasn't recognized. And I wasn't recognized as a salutatorian. So in the past years, you know, I was a high school counselor for like 13 years before this, my suggestion to students that aren't that close, come to my history. I mean, there's always those one-offs, you know? Typically, your rank kind of settles in around mid-junior year. So, when we do you know, this client here is juniors. Um you know, we just applied the early bird. We early bird juniors. That rank that we used was at the end of the semester one of junior year. I typically do not see much change in that going into the final final.
018Um GPA is figured at four decimal points. Most of them, there's enough expanse between those two. There might be those occasionals where there might be 0.0012 away from each other. You know what I mean? If that was the case, as a a counselor, a principal, an advisor looking after junior year, if that's the game they're trying to play, if they really care about giving that salutatorian speech, or being in the top 10%, or whatever, I would advise them to take all their dual credit in the fall of their senior year, and not wait until not have four classes later in spring. Do you know what I mean? Uh it's almost like it's a no-win situation the way we're going. >> There's not a perfect solution. Uh I don't There's There's just not. I have a
019great question. Yeah. We don't want to do that. >> [laughter] >> Well, My point of view would be as long as the students know ahead of time, and parents know ahead of time that this could happen, and we have it in writing, and they've seen it, and they know that it's a it's a possibility then okay. I just don't want anybody to get any surprises. And I'm going to answer or or whoever's paying close enough attention to where if you've got two kids who are 0.03 away from each other to sit down with him and their parents to say, "Okay, look. This could make a difference." We're using good sixth grade here. And all I can say is like I mean, I thought that was the case anyway. I guess I guess I never really
020thought about the uh college piece of it. I don't know if we got everything spotless. Yes, it it I didn't say anything about college. I did. And that's what I don't know I mean, I don't know how it's decided the last three years. I've been in a variety of different spots. But in that, I've been pulled in and out of the advising part of it. And whenever I talk to students, that's how I advise them. See, when I did all the scheduling for the upcoming students this year, we didn't promise you they were advising what they They were honors kids, they were advising them how to make their GPAs as high as possible. I got moved back to the high school March or April of last year. And I did all the scheduling for Mr.
021P. At the end of the year. And that is a conversation that I had with students. Um I can't tell you what past advisors told me. That's close enough to where that final score can make that big of a difference. Sir? Or any of our our take our top two or three this year, I mean, you get them close enough to where They have them close enough that you think it's going to They have to have their zeros. Yeah, I know. I believe that when these dual credit grades come in in a week, our top 10% valid joins literary will remain the same. But, the reason we're asking for this wording is because um Mr. Wilburn you might can help me with my my wording, but if we used what the computer was doing without
022the specific sentence that we want to add that says Then we're hurting kids' GPAs. Yes, because if if right now the computer is printing out something that's wrong. Yeah. Because the computer is counting these dual credit classes as a zero. And like you said, the bottom number is wrong. Yeah, the denominator's wrong. So, We're trying to make it right. I'm not printing anything out of the computer right now because it's wrong. I mean, that's like Is there anybody >> somebody in writing say that we're going to take that denominator out. Yes, ma'am. Even though it's the only one I could find that works. Everybody else does something either at at the next to last week. Yeah, I didn't catch that either. I I made an assumption that we did the grades total school was completely
023out, but I didn't catch that piece of They let us finish so we do a final >> We do get them. You It's just later in the game. It's like Graduation's already happened. >> Your graduation's already happened. No, hasn't happened. I don't know if you said it hadn't happened. I don't know if you said it No. No, seniors No, seniors we would be we would have a week. And on that ESC local, what is our wording? So, it talks about um local graduation honors. That's what we're asking for this Correct. cap, you know, this to be put in. Right under that, what does it say under House Ranking Graduate? Can we have that for I'm sorry, I didn't bring it with me. I brought it to other people. I don't have a problem with any
024of it as long as you're up front with it. As long as the as long as the students and the parents know that I mean, we can't tell Lamar to send us grades early. I mean, we can't do that. I don't know what he's talking about. As long as they understand there's a potential for change then Yeah. Well, I I have been stressing it. When I talked to Now, I think some passing >> this year Some passing grades have been given to some of these students and parents that said your physical doesn't count. That's not true. That's not true. And I'm I'm trying to fix that how I can. You know, what parents are saying. And And I will tell you that was not all the way And it sounds like we don't know I
025don't Hey, we're done. That's what we're done. We're done. It's not going to change anything. And and Could you read that transcript? Did you find it? She's going to get it? Okay, so I don't know if you want to get half of college classes back in the 1900s when I was early early yeah. But see like right now um I don't have my number with me. But But if you don't know, we have I think it's 14 or 15 students that are walking at Lamar Orange next Saturday. Okay, nice. All right. We have three associate degrees. We have a sophomore, a junior that are walking with HVAC certificates. We have three construction basic technology certificates. We've got five medical assisting CNA nursing students. I mean we We've got a process technology certificate. We We have
026about 15 students walking at Lamar Orange next Saturday. And so if you think about it, those 15 students we don't I don't have their final grades yet. I know they're walking. We've we've certified them for graduation. They had better not mess up their semester final this week. But for those 15 students, that's what we we want to see more of that. And so I do not want to discourage dual credit during the spring of their senior year. I'll I'll go back to this is is what is what are the uh primary cons of waiting to until the week before graduation? So that we have all the grades. What's I'm just throwing it out there. Again, we said honors and then we said the valedictorian, salutatorian getting their speech speech Excuse me, speeches prepared. What else
027do we have? Sure school pictures are taken on Yeah, I was going to say pictures and stuff. >> everything. I I just um I mean family preparation. They order their sash. They order Yes, I Um As a parent with a senior going in to make sure that that you have a lot of My kid's not going in for anything, so I don't panic. But uh he Like that would be a lot of panic on the parent for if your kid's going to be valedictorian or salutatorian or honors, but you don't know which one of my kids which one of my kids And that's what I was going to say. Here's another thing that Well, what do you think about it, I don't want to wait another week. I would probably not have wanted to wait.
028I I didn't want to wait after January 1st. >> [laughter] >> So it doesn't I don't know if I mean yes, it matters. I'm just throwing it out there. I agree. But right or wrong, we just need to consider all the options that are there and seriously consider it because that's when I hear that after the fact that a kid was moved from third to second, that hurts me. That hurts me for that kid, that kid's family, and I mean that's just And that's what I said, especially this year with us doing it now, which is not really changing anything. We're going to do the exact same thing we've been doing for years. We're just going to put it in writing, basically. But, yeah. I think we have to do a good job of making
029sure those parents and kids understand all of this. All these seniors and Here's what I can tell you. If we don't put this in writing, there would be a major issue. Yeah. Can I say that? If we don't put this in writing, there would be a major issue. Well, no. I said we needed it written. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. We have to make a decision [clears throat] tonight on what we're going to do. Because if we were to currently go by what our computer is doing, it would not be good. So, if we let's say we go with y'all's option, which is probably what we're going to end up doing, to be honest with you. If we go with y'all's with with what y'all's recommendation is, one of the things that I
030would like to see, it doesn't have to happen tonight or tomorrow or next week even. One of the things that I would like to see is what is the written plan for how the principal for growth and you know, if you're here for another 20 years or 10 years or as long as you want to be here, but Say I want whoever our principal is Say to be able to to have something in writing saying, "This is how you handle this." This is a This is how you handle It's an advisory plan. Like we were working on. This is the problem. [clears throat] This is who you communicate with. This is how you communicate with them. This is cuz I don't I don't want somebody else to step in here and not know. Right. I
031do believe in systems and putting systems in place that haven't been in place. But, the only hand it over. And y'all's getting from what you're saying is part of Senate Bill 13 last year was the state's supposed to set these guidelines for various schools so they're all identical? Yes. So, they make They were supposed to be out uh January 1st. It's May 4th, and we got to admit January 1st of what year? Yeah. I was thinking 2018. No, no, no. They were supposed to have uh a statewide unified GPA, etc., for everybody's EOCs. policies. And they're not out yet. So, we may have to come back to this. You guys fine? Again, if they adopt that. But, I get what But, if we stick with this, we will have a plan. Yes. So, so the
032[clears throat] state is going to tell us how to do this in the future. So, then they come in and say you have to what? Or they may say Right. Give them the They're supposed to I'm not sure if Oh, but this is So, I'm being Oh, yeah. Yeah, it'll go to the board They may not I need to call the school. The only other thing I have a question spinning in the wind. The only way he said that was the right way to do it. I don't care about the plan. I don't want to paint ourselves in a corner either. Do they compound kids? I have something too that says, "Okay, Yeah, I think You got to have a co-op and then they'll hold hold them back. That would be That would be That
033would be That would be That would Are you They are allowed to They have a a graduation. You should probably wait. the whole like you know They can have both of them cuz they can be co-ed. But, you can see you go to They can see high school, too, that And a lot of kids are on here use that whole school system, and they can go back to you and have a high school graduation. Like you can opt to go close enough to where I would love to be able to tell them we're just going to do co-ed. And maybe we do. Maybe they are And the problem is we should have been waiting for those scores. But, says we're going to take fifth, sixth, and eighth scores. And if we stick by that, then
034we're not going to use final final What [clears throat] is our policy? I'm sorry. What do you say something? I'm sorry. I thought I I thought I was going to talk. What is our our policy for that final warning? Do we have a policy Yes. Oh, we take what the computer says at that point. That's kind of why I was asking Mr. Wellborn. Um The only thing that it really would affect would be that highest ranking graduate. Paragraph. For what? The For that final final ranking. Yes. [clears throat] Because ours says For the you want the highest ranking The student meeting the local eligibility criteria for recognition of a valedictorian shall also be considered the highest ranking graduate for purposes of receiving the honor graduate certificate from the state of Texas. That honor graduate certificate
035from the state of Texas is a full paid first year. So that's something that we need to look at. That's not what I have that says. Oh, what do you have? For the purpose of applications to institutions of higher education, the district shall also calculate class rank as required by state law. The district's eligibility criteria for local graduation honors shall apply only for local recognitions and shall not restrict class rank for the purpose of automatic admission. Perfect. What what is the date of that? Uh 12/4/2015. Perfect. I'm looking at the wrong document. I'm so sorry. >> You're good. I was looking at something that was proposed maybe by past administration. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. We We did We just We just fixed that. Perfect. So, what do we call Do we call this
036the the graduation walking order, right? Local graduation honors. Okay, so local graduation honors. So, we're not calling it like final correct, right? Okay, good. I want to make sure of that. final and then final final No, there's a distinction between final and final like Correct. And what you just read is exactly what I feel like it should say. Yes. Correct. And then Luke, to your question earlier, um we don't have a whole series of tiebreakers. If they're tied after first GPA calculations, they're tied, we recognize two valedictorians. >> Yeah, as long as we're clear as long as it says Again, I'm okay with They have different tiebreakers. Because they did not want a tie. We We will do a tie if they're tied after the first one. We'll do Again, to Ms. Shepherd's point, if
037it says X, then it says X. Go ahead and let's move on then. Does ours say fourth decimal place? >> Yes. Yeah, they're tied after four, then they are tied, and we have two valedictorians. >> shall not recognize Which is way nicer than then you calculate total number of honors courses, then you calculate weighted courses, then And does it say shall not recognize a salutatorian? It does say shall not recognize a salutatorian. So, we have two valedictorians. I'm just saying, once like to weighted courses, but do more than two. Um but you can do two if they're if they're tied. tied by your policy. If we had three tied in the small school, Well, and I'm going to throw this out. Thank God y'all are catching these kind of things. Because we we need to
038be on top of that. Okay, it's important. Yeah, I had forgotten this one goes with this time. Yeah. Well, I think her counseling background has really uh been an asset to that position. For sure. Thank her counseling background and I think what she went through prior to getting the principal's job here has done a lot for her and and And I think they have too. I think you learned a lot during that time. So, it just made you a really really good principal. And you know, that's one of the reasons why we wanted fresh eyes. Thank you. Okay, any more questions? So, what's the recommendation? And how do we vote on this? So, The superintendent's going to make a recommendation. >> Yes, the recommendation after discussion is that we go with option A, which is
039keep our current policy and add in courses in progress for which an average has not yet been received, including dual credit or other college courses, shall not be included in the calculation for graduation ceremony order or designations, including valid or salutatory and all other honors graduate. Uh and shall not be averaged or assigned a value until the official grade is received. Okay. So, with that being said, all those in favor of accepting option A, Thank you. Uh any reason we need to go in close? I don't know if I have one of those on. Okay, that'll bring us down to three. I'm over to our drawing. Second. All in favor. I vote. Nice job, by the way. Thanks, y'all. I feel like she had faith in me cuz it's the main thing