Board Meeting Study Session 10/21/2025

0015:00 p.m. board study session. We're going to begin by indicating those who are here. Um Julie, will you start online and then Kim, >> Julie Jackson, >> Kim Chandler, >> Clark Nelson, >> Karen Winder, >> Chris Win, >> Nicole McDermott. Go ahead, Todd. Todd Hobber and Orsley >> Nicole McDerm I thought I did. Okay, we're going to go ahead and get started um with our study session items. Our first one is we're going to invite Dr. Converse up to um share with us. We've talked about uh curriculum adoption process and um assistant superintendent Lesley Bell is also going to help. So going to turn the time over to you too. Thank Thank you, board president and vice president Wyn, superintendent, board members. Um, this is this is not the most exciting I'm sorry, uh, board

002member Nelson. Not as exciting as the literacy presentation last year, but it is a very valid part of what we do in um, in the school district. And I think um that this was brought about um just to clarify what a few things about what curriculum is and what instructional materials are and then to go through um how we actually select those. Um so I'll go ahead and move forward. So, our objectives today are to just basically define curriculum under Utah law, USB rule, and our district policies um that you enact. And then to describe the processes and resources we rely on when we're selecting um materials and then finally just to give you an outline of the projected um adoption for our primary instructional materials over the next five years. So, I'm just going

003to start with a really basic um uh overview of what what curriculum is. And so, I just I I put the Miriam Webster definition up here because it is um it is the standard definition of curriculum. Courses offered by an education institution or a set of courses constituting an area of specialization. So, that's just broadly how curriculum is defined. And as we move into the Utah code, um curriculum starts to take on a more specific definition. And so according to Utah, um law, instructional materials are curriculum. And those are resources to support student learning, including textbooks, digital materials, videos, and online applications. And that's all um defined in Utah uh code. Um, I think the most important thing about the Utah definition is that instructional materials, curriculum are really there to support learning and meaning

004to they're they're there to support the course standards, not to uh teach to the book or teach to the instructional material. Um, they're only there to support. Our real um requirement in Utah is to teach the Utah course standards. The Utah State Board goes on to define under Utah law um some specific components of instructional materials. They echo very much what um the instructional materials definition at the state level is. And then they start to define some operating procedures. And so what's important about that is that um as a board as as a local LEA board um they define our expectations for selection and purchase of instructional materials. So the USB in rule defines um that the local boards must have a policy in place for both selection and procurement of instructional materials. Um so

005that's the basic piece in terms of you Utah um rule and then also the most important part of um of Utah rules is that they define the standards and what um needs to happen in terms of writing um Utah state standards and what those include. And so I think this definition is probably the most important definition in terms of what curriculum is. Meaning that um we have to identify the knowledge, skills and competencies each student is expected to acquire or master as the student advances through our system. Um an increase in depth and complexity from year to year and focus on consistent and continual progress within and between grade levels and courses. And so as a local board, the responsibility is to have policies in place that ensure that we as as um district representatives

006create programs um purchase materials um and outline resources that allow students to reach high levels in accordance with what your board goals are um for students in Granite School District. This is really probably the most important aspect of what curriculum means. um in our state and in our district. It's it's exceptionally important because we really rely on um each standard and we are our teachers are amazingly good at understanding what the core standards are and using the core standards to build their coursework out and to build their lessons out. So very very important part of the definition. And then finally, um, Granite School District policy also defines instructional materials. That's really what curriculum is. Um, and that's defined in our art our learning materials article. And then it's specifically outlined, and I'll go into administrative

007memorandum 140 a little bit more when we talk about selection. Um, but but the the definitions really echo the definition exactly in USB um, rule and Utah law. So in the code um and so there are two um basic components of curriculum in um Granite School District that we define and they're very much in accordance with what USB how USB defines them. But we basically define instructional materials as any curricular materials we centrally adopt. So those are the formal adoptions that we make um in in uh Granite School District and these are the ones that I come to you and we do the first board meeting and then we have the public comment and then we come back um after the public comment and all of the input that we get from the public uh

008in asking for um a recommendation for adoption. Examples of those are ELA adoption um into reading recently and then I ready math is another example. The other um basic uh component of our curricular materials is supplemental materials. And so supplemental materials are all the other materials that teachers use, but we don't take um we don't take these to board for formal adoption as instructional materials with the two board um and public review component. And and so you may see um materials come across the consent agenda and that's because they've met a a price threshold, but those are not formally adopted. Now, despite that, and we'll get into it when I talk a little bit about selection, they still have to adhere to all of the rules and all of the laws. Um, so all supplemental

009materials also have to uh um follow the law and the rules even though we don't formally adopt them and the board doesn't formally have to vote on those. Examples of these are open education resources. You might have heard of OEER resources and those are basically resources that the state procures but they're free and um increasingly we are seeing um some some good evidence of good OEER re OEER um materials that we are we look we we are looking at um using and teachers are free to use these as as they wish. Um another example is one that we purchased which is Bridg's math intervention. So how do we select the instructional materials? Um administrative memorandum 140 really outlines how we do that. So as I said before the content areas of ELA, math and science

010are materials that we adopt districtwide. So those require the formal process of adoption that we have in policy. And then supplemental materials are really any other any other subject area um is a is a supplemental material and that basically means that we are not procuring and purchasing and adopting those centrally but schools have more flexibility um or teachers have more flexibility to select what um they use in their classrooms. And so I just want to take a minute to talk about what that means. Yeah. Um, and I don't think I can click on this. No, I can't. But administrative memorandum um 140 really outlines our specific process. The one that I kind of review every time we go through um uh a formal adoption and and what what that requires of um of the board

011is that number one, we follow our policy. And the policies are really um specific to two components under rule and law. And those are selection criteria and then also procurement process. So the legal parts of buying the the materials and they're very specifically outlined in USB rule. So we basically just mimic a lot of what that is in our administrative memorandum. But I think a lot of the um what what might be especially um important for for you to kind of um uh remember is that um that that newer component where we've adopted where the state has adopted the process of having the two board meetings. So, one that happens as a a primary as a initial um introduction to the materials and then allowing for that time for public comment, for review, for anyone

012to give um input on what those materials are before we take it to a final uh board meeting for approval. So, that's one part that's really important um in terms of our adoptions. Another part that's important um that I want to point out is that just to reiterate that um we have with the supplemental materials um we have a lot of specific requirements for teachers to follow. So for example, even though they're supplemental, teachers shall vet all instructional materials thoroughly to en ensure age and developmentally appropriateness and relevance. Teachers need to communicate the use of all those materials and disclosures frequent transparent um um sharing of information regarding those materials. And um we also have a topics guide, a curriculum topics guide that focuses very much on um how teachers use those materials in the

013classroom and how they choose the materials in terms of making sure they comply with all state law and USB uh e rule. And so I think those are the the most important pieces to outline. Um, in terms of our policy, there there are a couple of resources we rely on heavily um with in both the primary in our instructional material adoption and our supplemental material selection and one is the rims searchable database. So under USB rule, they have it very well defined. If you were to read the USB rule that I included in the presentation, um they recommend instructional materials and we um we we turn to the rims list first. That's the first place we look because um if it's on the rims list, we know it's been heavily vetted and that it um

014it most likely well no it must by their own rule um align directly with the core standards. And so recommended materials under board rule must align directly with Utah course standards. And they have a whole selection process at the state level um like we do at the local level that allows them to determine whether or not it meets that criteria. And then as I said before the other um resource that we are increasingly uh relying on are open education resources. And these are really resources that educators have um have built. Um we've our own teachers have participated in the creation of open education resources or other public entities have simply um provided us access with these under public funds. Public if you create something under public um public funds then it's it belongs to the

015public. So uh so these these educational resources are really useful to us and can also be super coste effective. So um we we really try to turn to those as much as possible. And then finally um we do have an adoption timeline and in collaboration with purchasing department and accounting uh we outline this adoption timeline both both in terms of making sure we are fiscally responsible in predicting what the costs of future adoptions will be and also making sure that we um try to uh balance when adoptions happen so that teachers don't get inundated in one school year with having to adopt a lot of different materials. So, we try to make sure we um we we kind of spread those out across years. So, you can see um for this upcoming school year, the

016the 26 27th school year, we'll be looking at a K5 science adoption. In 2728, there won't be one at all. Yay. And then um just because it's a lot of work. and and then 2829 we have a K5 math adoption uh again and then as and so on so forth you can see 29 30 is a year but those two grade bands don't overlap so it shouldn't be it's more work for my department than than for uh for teachers uh and then you can see the 3031 um 612 ELA adoption and so I just want to um I think end with with what I think is kind of captures our sentiment and our responsibility um in the curriculum and instruction department to make sure we're honoring the board's responsibility to USB rule and to Utah

017code that we are we honor full transparency in terms of what our selection process and procurement process is and we incre we we I think as a result of laws over the last I don't know five years. Um we've really gotten much much better at making sure um we have PE more input at every part of the process from early um like right now this year we're thinking about next year's adoption and how do we survey teachers um with for what they want uh because we really just don't want to buy things that aren't going to get used, right? And then we also are uh turn to our patrons and our families to make sure um they have input and are able to give as much feedback as possible in the process. So that's basically

018the overview of um that presentation. What questions do you have? >> Go ahead. >> Um I this is loud. A little while ago, we had a teacher that wanted to add some um materials to a curriculum and we had to we as a board had to approve that. Do you remember I'm trying to re remember why we had to do that because I it looks like we have a timeline for adoption, but we it was out of the timeline and I just can't remember exactly what that circumstance was. >> Without knowing what it is, what it likely was is that it met a price threshold where those materials had to be formally approved. So it met it they ordered enough of it that it met a threat a purchasing threshold where you it had to

019go to consent agenda. >> Okay. And I think there was one other time that we had to approve something. They wanted to use certain materials in a class and I want to say it was a health class maybe or >> Yeah. And is that above this? >> It's inclusive in that. Okay. So, so I what I probably glazed over a little bit is included in all of all of this definition are sexed materials, novels, those pieces. And so we have under under board policy that that you've approved, we have all of those procedures in place whereby we anything that meets the definition of material that's used in a health or health science or CTE class, all of those places. Um they and it and it meets the definition of a sexed material, it must go

020through that additional process. And so those you'll also see um every time every time they come through because those are required. So not a certain timeline. Those are requested by our teachers or somebody who's teaching that subject. Correct. >> They can be requested by So a vendor could ask to submit and then if the teachers are interested in that um they'll say we want these reviewed. If they or if a presenter um is uh is wanting to provide or a teacher sees a presenter that they want to come in and speak on the topic, that all has to be thoroughly vetted. And so that goes uh goes through all of the sex ed materials adoption procedures which are outside of this. So this this part still happens but that additional layer of transparency and vetting

021also happens. And and that also um we we apply that rule with an abundance of caution. And so you might remember that we applied it to um uh to our um human trafficking u materials a few years ago and also something with AP psychology and so we I think um we yeah we operate under an abundance of caution in terms of what we put through the sex committee. >> Thanks Noel. I appreciate that. >> Go ahead Connie. So, um, this happened a few years ago, but one of my constituents text me about a an elementary and was very displeased with what the teacher was teaching. And so, what what do they do when when Yeah. They're surprised and teaching totally >> against what the the parents want. So, you know that she got something off

022the internet or you know a teacher that she presented to the class without informing parents or >> Yeah. So, so what what really needs to happen in that case and and our teachers get trained um uh annually and and also have access to um ongoing resources to support them in selection and vetting. But as I as I indicated before, it's actually part of USB rule and law that parents have access to any materials they wish to review. So that's something that can always happen. But on the proactive end of that really if if there's something that gets and and sometimes this happens in the last minute. I I I would be guilty of it. You know, oh my gosh, I need something to teach this piece and um I didn't, you know, I didn't have

023time to include it in my disclosure, right? That happens in those cases. I mean, first of all, number one, an abundance of caution that it's following what we've outlined in terms of neutrality, in terms of does it actually support teaching the core standards, um, is it unbiased, all of those things we outline under supplemental materials. And so if if a teacher is able to do that um and also um and and feel confident that it it it meets the criteria, last minute materials, not such a big deal. If it's something that they're not sure, really teachers should be reaching out um and asking, "Do you think this is appropriate? Should we is this something I should be teaching?" And we field those questions often. If a parent's dissatisfied, the first thing they want to do

024is reach out to the teacher and let them know and say, "Hey, I just" and sometimes it's just an oversight um and and they can rectify that right there on that on that direct level. Um if it's something that goes beyond that, you talk to the principal just as as we always would. But if there's if there's a need for them to understand more why something's inappropriate, we're always available, the curriculum and instruction department to help un help teachers and parents understand um our curriculum topics guide um our our dedication to uh a voice of neutrality in the classroom and our focus on teaching only the Utah core standards that we primarily teach. So, um, when that happens, you know, they're they're welcome to reach out, um, to us. Um, but but also a lot

025of the times just talking to the teacher solves the problem. We have that happening and a lot of the times the teacher doesn't even realize um that it that that it it bothered someone or that they didn't notify a parent. So, so that's that's my recommendation. I was just going to say I think as a board member over the years it's not necessarily the complaint against the curriculum I hear. It's complaints about teachers putting their own spin and their own ideology into that. >> Um and so my opinion is the teacher the kids shouldn't know what party you belong to. That's >> right. >> That is a neutral classroom. That is an unbiased classroom because you're presenting both sides and you're letting kids think for themselves. Right. But I can tell you it's not happening

026that way. And so that's I hear from parents and I have my own experience um with with that happening to where you know you have kids come home or neighbors come home and they'll come over and they'll be like, "Guess what my teacher said today?" >> You know, and it's just highly inappropriate. Um, and so I don't know with how many teachers we have how we >> how we address that. Um, I understand >> teachers are awesome. They do a great job. Um, and we have so many of them that I think the vast majority of them do steer clear >> uh purposely of that. But for those that don't, I I don't know what the answer is except for I mean, I can go tell a constituent, hey, go talk to the teacher. If

027that doesn't work, go talk to the principal, right? We I know I I I'm well verssed in that. Um but I guess I'm asking a bigger question on how do we address the bigger problem which is >> to get that bias out where they're trying to kind of back it up with their own ideology. I think that's probably what I hear the most complain about. >> I I understand that completely. I think one thing we have really been able to improve um in the department over the last five years is the focus on neutrality in the classroom. Um all I think any teacher you talk to in the district has heard um our messaging in terms of that perspective of neutrality and we define it very specifically in the curriculum uh topics guide um which

028I I failed to include in this but I can send it um afterwards. But really specifically exactly what you said uh board member Winder in terms of um that objectivity and not only is that is that a priority because um people shouldn't know what party you belong to or what your opinions are but from a um from an instructional perspective from a pedagogical perspective or a cognitive perspective kids need to be able to make their own decisions and our core standards are written in such a way that they don't dictate one ideology or another. They're very very specific to avoid that. And so it is the teacher's job in the classroom to make sure that their level it's also more interesting when you don't know their level of facilitation of instruction in the classroom doesn't

029disclose that. It doesn't impose any anything on the students but allows them to think for themselves and come to their own decisions around what the core standards are. So, you know, we we do our best to keep training on that on on that um that position of neutrality and how to select and um and and design instruction. Uh with that, we also train our principles um on vetting materials as well. And and I do I have to say it has incre I've gotten an increased um flow both from teachers also parents but also principles on hey do you think do you think this is an appropriate thing to do or is it not appropriate does it kind of slant one way or the other and we have a dialogue about that and I think that

030that's been a really healthy process that's come out um it's it's really no judgment just there's a lot of there's a lot of ideology ology um in in our culture today and it's important that our our public school classrooms are are not um are not manifesting any of that but rather sticking to our core standards. So we're try we're trying and you know open to all kinds of new ideas to continue to push that um that perspective because it is what we believe um under under granite school district policy. I'm going to play devil's advocate too though because I think sometimes just because at personal experience I've said something that has been taken completely the wrong way or misunderstood. So, always make sure that you're also, you know, let's let's also give people the benefit

031of the doubt that maybe that's not really what was said. And I'm not saying in your case or whatever, but it's that's why I would always say, hey, it's good to have that conversation with the teacher because maybe that's not really what was actually said or maybe both sides were and that the kid wasn't paying attention or so. Anyway, but it is absolutely I think it is absolutely critical that we are continuing to along those lines that we do continue to stress this neutrality and that we make sure that we allow that for our students. Absolutely. >> I think I'm talking more about those that openly say they don't support the current president. Um that to me not biased. It's just totally biased. And and I'm not saying everyone has to love our current president,

032but it's it's those level of things. It's those comments that's what I'm getting at and that's what I'm hearing >> from some of my constituents, too. So, I don't know how you play devil's advocate on that one. You know, it's just inappropriate and and and it's not neutral and it is happening. And so, that's why I bring that question up. >> Did you have anything else, Karen? Clark, did you have anything? Um, let's go to Kim on my >> No, nothing additional. Just thank you Karen for asking that question. It's a similar feedback to what I hear. I appreciate that discussion. Thank you. >> Um, and Julie, do you have anything? >> Nope, I'm good. Thank you. >> I have a couple quick questions. Hopefully they're quick. Um do we have an example of something

033that we have adopted as a curriculum um but that has not been on the rims? >> Um actually we do. We do. Um so for example I math is not on the rims list and um I think what what um what you have to understand about the rims list is it's not super exhaustive. So, not everything runs through the state that it's a pretty uh rigorous process that they go through to to identify what their recommended instructional materials are, but also the program has to submit to being on the list. So, there are lots of really great programs um out there that are ubiquitous across the country being used even internationally um that aren't on the list. And so it that's why it's a recommended instructional materials list. All of our ELA is on it

034because that was kind of a requirement under SP127. So if you remember there were more rigorous requirements for ELA a few years back that have carried forward and that required some very very specific um strict criteria for for adopting ELA materials. >> Um how do you h I actually honestly don't know and I've done this for 26 years. How do you handle non-core subjects? Like I don't know that I've ever submitted a book that said this is what I'm teaching from. How do we follow up with these non-core subjects? >> Yeah. So our our curriculum specialists actually, you know, are very um aware of resources. So in the curriculum topics guide, there are sections for each content area and they actually have recommended resources that are under that. They'll also they'll also review anything someone

035wants to look at. If you look at our software materials, um our software um adoption materials, those all get vetted through a curricular lens in my department um so that we know what's there. Um and then we also will um if if a teacher or a parent or an administrator comes to us and um doesn't um uh has a problem with something, we'll take a review of that. But but we make recommendations and a lot of the times for the um the non-core subjects that are adopted that that um aren't core adopted, we um have recommended lists and a lot of that is on rims or open ed resource. >> Okay. Um I I don't know that I don't know that this is a quantitative one more qualitative but and so just what's your opinion

036as far as how often do teachers deviate from the purchased curriculum that we have? So are we required are they required to use the I Ready for a certain amount of time? Can they use other curriculum? Do they use like how often does this happen? >> That's that's a very good question and the answer is it depends. um elementary they they stick to the primary uh instructional materials that are adopted pretty strictly um in terms of ELA, math, science, you know, we've got all three of those pieces there. And um even for social studies, we have, you know, the Utah um the USB has recently come out with a K5 um social studies curriculum, but our social studies specialist, who's amazing, also um has recommended materials. So, in elementary, the deviation is just supplemental to

037um to be able to fill in some of the gaps because like I said before, our curricular resources are just resources. They don't hit every standard and they're made for purchase. So, um you know, they they they try to meet everyone's needs across the country and sometimes they have holes in in them. Not every resource is great. And so teachers will will select supplemental pieces at the elementary but by and large um they are sticking to uh the instructional materials that we adopt. As you get into secondary subjects, specifically in like science and math, it gets a little harder um because the because the the the publishers create um materials that are very niche to the different topics or the different um uh um courses course content areas that that are are that we're teaching.

038And so you can't really adopt one whole conglomerate of of science material and have a teacher use it. They just be like, "No." And even even in in terms of math, let's say at the high school level, as you get like secondary one, we were just having this conversation yesterday. Secondary math one teachers, yeah, by and large they're using that primary instructional uh material that we've adopted. But as it gets h as you get into higher and higher math, these these teachers are um experts in their in their in their area in their content area and they know the standards and they've figured out ways to teach them. So they rely a little bit less on some of the core materials. So that's that's where you've seen us get a little bit more um differentiated

039in the way we're starting to adopt some materials. So, for example, last year when we adopted into literature for 6 through 8 and then just writable at the at the high school level, that was a fiscally responsible thing to do because our high school teachers are like, "No, we know what we're doing and we know how to teach the ELA standards, right?" And so, that's where you see a little bit more um uh more I don't know, more diversity in in the materials that they they use. And maybe this is not a a question that you can answer right now, but it it's an interesting thing to me that if we're not spending that money then on that curriculum, are we then returning that to the school and saying you can buy your curriculum or

040you can purchase, you know, whatever it is >> as a resource instead of purchasing >> that could certainly be a solution to it. What we've what we found um recent well we found a couple things. number one astronomical sorry increases in the in the costs of the ma of the curricular materials right so in terms of budgets but the other thing we're finding with like high school teachers specifically that have very specific content areas is there are ancillary materials that they are appreciating so writable that writing that writing support um program that we purchased they're loving that um in in science and math there are platforms for creating assess investments that have all of the bells and whistles in terms of haptics and things like that that they're starting to use and there are other

041materials like that. So, I think a combination of ancillary materials, but by all means, if there were to be, you know, funding that was available that that was something the the district used to do. They used to push out uh funding for specific adoptions when we didn't need it centrally. >> Okay. I just wondered if that was like a >> Yeah. Hey, we're not using this money, so we're going to push out to every high school, you know, an extra 5,000 for any ancillary materials or whatever. So, um, and my last one is just because this got brought up, I think, when we were reviewing the health standards or the health the health materials. >> Um, there were several things on the the list of the supplemental uh materials that >> that were, you know,

042maybe not they were not relevant anymore. People were not using that, right? Have you since then adopted that with all of our curriculum, our supplemental materials? Are we reviewing those regularly? How often do they get reviewed and how often do some of them get pulled off? Right. So, so health has a very specific requirement under sexed under the sexed rules. So, the only thing we do centrally um that is a supplemental are sexed materials and novels. Um, so those are are consistently um weeded and cleaned. Um, so yeah, we had some stuff that was outdated and and so over the last five years, we've cleaned up that list of the sex ed materials. Same with novels, right? We've we've weeded that as well. So, but we haven't done that with >> but we don't do

043that with others. No, we have recommended resources and we don't we don't um we don't vet what every teacher is teaching across every content area. Sorry. Um Kim had one more comment. Go ahead, Kim. >> Thank you. Sorry. Um just wanted to go back to the discussion earlier about um when when constituents of parents feel like there's biased information being presented in a classroom and the comment about standards. Um I I don't know that I agree that all the standards are always neutral. I think there are some cases where I have felt that they're not. Um, I think I raised one of them in our AP psychology, for example, when we talked about that in a board meeting not that long ago. What would your advice be in cases where parents and constituents are in

044that situation? Right. So, they feel like it's not the teacher saying anything in inappropriate, but the subject matter being taught anyway is um controversial to them and not neutral. How would they address that? Yeah, thank you for that. Um, yeah. So, so in terms of the Utah state standards, um, all constituents have the opportunity to comment whenever we're adopting standards. So, they're on a regular schedule. If you look at if you click on the link that I included that talks about uh, core standards, um, I can't remember which one it is. Uh, anyway, it's the USB um, rule. it it outlines the whole procedure whereby um the USB adopts standards and they have the same requirements we do in terms of making sure all constituents have the opportunity to give feedback and to weigh in

045on what those standards are. So, um that's something if you just go to the USB website, you can see um what where they are in the timeline of adopting standards. So you have that that that recourse you always have for all of the state standards. For AP, it's a little different. That's that's governed by college board. Um so we don't have a lot of um uh we don't have a lot of uh ability to change standards in AP. However, we do vet the material. The material is subject to Utah code um and board rule. So there is that recourse. Thank you. So, just was wanting to put that on the record for anyone concerned with that. You know, contact your >> state representative and and have your voice heard there. So, thank you. >> Sure

046thing. >> I think that's everything. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much. >> All right, we're going to shift gears and invite Mr. Steve Hoganup who is our director of planning and boundaries and we're going to get an update on our um our pack study. [Music] Thank you board. Sorry, I lose stuff at work. Glasses, pens, sanity. I've got most everything with me though. Okay, I'm going to jump right in and and again go quickly through the presentation. Uh some of these slides again a lot of these slides are more for the public consumption and those that would look at this later or watching online and but as always of course if you have questions let me know and I'll stop at any point. Um I want to mostly get through this and

047tell you really this is about an update. We had our last pack meeting last Wednesday just uh a few hours before fall break started and uh I could tell everyone in the room was antsy and they were anxious and but uh we had a great great meeting for a couple of hours and so that's that's the purpose of coming. So again, our process, everyone's familiar with that. We're in the last leg here and the study area map. These factors that that I'm keep I find myself referring to more and more when everybody asks, well, what is what is the criteria? What is the rubric if some people refer to that? Um, do we have a um an equation? I think Clark even referred to it recently as an algorithmic equation. Do we have a dot

048dot um roadmap to find answers? And really it's these these these are those for instance when it says school programs and their impacts um this DLI ALC of course are sped and what are their impacts on our traditional programs other factors unique to the study area? Somebody asking, but what does that mean? This in this study area, for instance, a couple of those special factors might be our our cluster of schools in certain areas or the fact that we have low enrollment and low FCI and and two schools side by side, things like that that are kind of unique to different study areas. Um so we were asked and and and agreed readily to revisit one idea and that's the potential closure of of Eastwood and what that would look like um under a couple

049of different scenarios and that is if ALC became part of um Eastwood and French DOI um was was adopted or or moved to Oakidge under one scenario and the other scenario is even if there were no traditional students at Eastwood, if ALC could just move there as a standalone program, kind of like DLI as a standalone program. Um, I I'm going to address address that part first and then I have some slides that that Mitch wants to go over. But it it bottom line is at the end of PAC, we still wanted to make the recommendation of an Eastwood and Oakidge merger. And I've been using that word more and more recently because I whenever we get the opportunity to make a change or a closure, consolidation, whatever word many people choose to use, in

050this case, we truly look at it as a merger. And that means the difference is sometimes when we close a school, we're partially parting out percentages to schools to multiple places like we've done in most of our studies. It's unique a little bit and preferred to do it this way and that is where one school the the entire student body gets to move or merge into with another school. that helps maintain so much of the culture, all the friends, all of the benefits, most if not all of the teachers, all of these things that we'll we'll talk about more in just a minute. But, um, that is still the the current um recommendation of the pack at this point. And again, these have not changed. I don't think there's anything new about what I've gotten

051up here. The Eastwood campus would close and merge with Oakidge. The central location uh that PAC prefers of of Oakidge being closer to Churchill is a big deal. Slightly larger building capacity at Oakidge. The pickup and drop off, more of a challenge at Eastwood as enrollment has increased. That one I will speak to for just a second. Um we did a what I would call an informal traffic study. um at the very least observational where we had uh five people two at Eastwood and three at Oakidge go and spend two days that's two mornings and two afternoons observing taking notes using tick marks of walkers and and how many people walk to school how many are dropped off other basic um observations and and it really didn't change our mind in fact it only kind

052of reinforced our thinking on this and that is both schools approximately. Again, this is three people. This is we didn't hire a firm to do this, but we feel like we were pretty accurate in it. And that is our observation was 80 to 90% of the students at both schools are dropped off by by a vehicle. Um and and most of the rest are are walkers or bike riders, but they get there on their own in some way. Um at Eastwood it's still a concern that we've talked about that at the intersection there of Wasatch and the entrance to 215 even with only about 230ish students it still tends to back up a little bit uh closer to Wasatch and that's what I mean and why we have as enrollment is increased. So, in other

053words, if Eastwood um if if Oakidge was merged with Eastwood and then you had 500 approximately students at Eastwood, then we're more concerned with the intersection and the pickup and drop off. Buses have a hard time, harder time at Eastwood. Buses can pull through at Oakidge as well as the cars. It's one way in, one way out. I'll remind everyone, I'm not suggesting everything is perfect at Oakidge. Far from it. We do not have a school where everything is perfect. It's just a matter. It's pretty relative and contextual. We understand that. But but that that's just an update that that we wanted to double check our memory from from years and years and my observations. I did not participate in this observation or study. Um, I wanted other people that were not me to to

054take a look and give me their independent uh voice and observations of that part. >> Can I ask a question? >> Sure. Um, so based on what I'm just restating what I heard you say. In summary, you would estimate that upwards of only 10 to 20% of the students appear to be walking. So we're talking at at Eastwood that is roughly under 40 students. correct >> on the high end. And so the vast majority of traffic and probably at both locations, I don't want to just >> Correct. It it is pretty consistent at both locations. >> Okay. And then the traffic uh we obviously had concerns previously about Eastwood's drive-thru, which is why we tried to make improvements to it, >> right? >> Um because it was one of our more challenging ones as well.

055Okay. >> Correct. Thank you for that clarification, superintendent. >> I would just make a point then that uh it appears that if the vast majority of our families are driving, which we assumed in the first place, that this plan where the vast majority of those families would be provided transportation, addresses that concern fairly readily. Is that fair to say? >> The pack would concur with that. Yes. >> Thank you. It was interesting and and I'm glad it happened this way. There were again two days of observation. One was on a beautiful Sunday sunny morning uh with great weather. The next day was uh wet and also had road construction up uh near Oakidge. And and I think it's interesting to have those variables in place already where it's even with those variables, those two days

056at least, I know it's not a long-term study, but at least with those two-day averages, they were pretty dang consistent. Um, and again, the um the Oakidge internal internal ADA access, and I want to stress that uh Eastwood is ADA compliant. Um, in PAC we use the word uh begin to use the the phrase ADA friendly perhaps, but it is technically compliant, but we're talking about the the difference. And again, none of these are that's not the reason. It's just a factor. One other thing that I want to emphasize and and my minus is a big deal. Um, and I've been working on this for a few days and um finally got confirmation just a few hours ago. We've heard a lot about the gold um designation, gold stem designation at Eastwood and um and

057it's a big deal as it should be. They've worked hard to gain that designation and we had understood at this point that it would uh would not uh it would not remain. So, but as I talked this afternoon and finally got confirmation from the go uh STEM action center at the state that indeed they would honor that through the current designation period of 2028 and then of course they could either reapply for gold or or maybe even apply for platinum at that point. One of the difference makers was was was just explaining that uh again this is the merger. We aren't parsing out students, but the entire student body comes with another school and this new oh as some people are calling it already East Ridge, whatever you want to call it. That's not my

058wheelhouse, but other people have started that conversation. But um the new school would in fact become that. And I I already got an email this afternoon saying, "Let us know when you want us to print banners. Do they want to be portrait or landscape and how big and all that sort of thing." So that that's in my mind is fantastic news because that's a lot of hard work that was put into that effort and and that will continue to be recognized. So um I think kudos to those at the STEM action center and and those that um um that that would be excited about that. >> To that point, I know Eastwood has a lot of these extra classrooms set up with, you know, things that supplies, labs, and those kinds of things. Um, where

059would all of that go? Are we designating those so that level of learning that all ties into what you're talking about can continue? >> Right. >> What does that look like? >> I there's I'm aware of at least one the reload that they have outside as kind of their STEM one of their STEM areas as I understand it. And if I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me, but uh >> as a classroom inside and maybe it's a Lego that's outside Lego League. But anyway, bottom line is I still believe we can accommodate that. That that should not be an issue to have all of those programs um still at Oakidge with the combined enrollments and and perhaps as we've adjusted other programs uh with grade configurations and other such things, we've actually made modifications

060to buildings, minor modifications to accommodate programming as expected by uh that incoming grade level or whatnot. So we can certainly look if there's a necessary accommodation >> or any sort of minor construction to to make sure that we're meeting those needs then we can we can address that as part of the transition process. part of that uh transition process especially when it regards the STEM designation would be the entire faculty getting trained and participating in STEM and and that would be kind of our expectation if we're going to bring the gold STEM designation over to this new school that then the entire faculty would embrace that and we would definitely be encouraging them as well as their whoever the new administration would be um which is yet to been determined um because this decision hasn't

061been made that we wish you for for higher than that gold standard. >> I can just chime in on that there. I mean there's a great power to that because the STEM designation is a cyclical thing. So, you know, even at Armstrong, it was we shot for platinum, we landed at gold, and then in the next cycle it became platinum. And this could be a real cool opportunity to expand the footprint of what they've gotten started there with, you know, a larger student body and do exactly what you said, >> right? And I'll just follow up with this decision from the pack largely comes back to this issue. we keep coming back to the traditional student classes and and moving ALC and Oakidge or excuse me DLI to to these smaller schools doesn't change the

062thing that we've been trying to remedy for years now and that's just our and this comes back in both of these here at Eastwood and Morningside is the the small traditional classes and and making sure we can maintain robust healthy schools in that way. it just did not move the needle for PAC enough to um to say, "Okay, let's consider moving programs to small schools where we know we've had these challenges for years." >> I I just want to clarify because I hear you say small traditional classes, but I want to point out that some of these were not small traditional classes. These are I think that's >> Thank you for that clarification. Let me let me rephrase that. >> Thank you. not small in number in enrollment in the class students but small in

063the classes per grade level >> because I think one of the things that I'm hearing over and over and over again that um our communities are not quite understanding is like I look at that 36 and the fourth grade at each >> that's not small >> 36 is not small >> right >> and if I'm a teacher that's teaching 36 20 you know 26 in a kindergarten is a lot um correct >> you know that's and that's a lot more 34 over there in Oakidge in the fifth grade. And it's not just about using our our buildings wisely. It's also about when you combine that, if you were to combine those two kindergarten classes right there, just looking at that, that's 57 kids. And that's three teachers. If you if you even that out, that's

064a lot more evenly spaced than what it is currently. And that's where, you know, we need to keep that in mind because it's not just about that. Yes, there are advantages to a small school as far as the kids and knowing them, but the disadvantage is that you don't have the resources spread out in the same way. And I think that's where we've got to make sure we understand that. Thank you. Thank you. That's that's huge clarification. And and yes, it's not in fact, it's the opposite of small classes. I mean, sometimes they're so small they have to be split, which is not good. and but normally you have these peaks and valleys in these schools that have only one to half teachers per grade level. So, thank you. >> We're going to we're going

065to switch gears a little bit, but on the same subject. >> Yeah, it actually uh it's a great segue into what this presentation is, and it's the benefits of this merger and how what we're contemplating here is really a winwin for everybody. It is such a great opportunity I think and I think I'm going to be able to show some data that says that we will be uh creating if this uh recommendation goes through Granite's newest high achieving elementary school and Utah's one of Utah's highest achieving elementary schools. Um if we take the new combined school enrollment, we're just going to walk this through uh understanding that if we put this combined and we merge these two schools, this is this is what will happen. There will be about again using the numbers as they

066exist the day I pulled this um but they vary all the time. We know that um 218 kids in K2 and 268 in 35 dividing by the uh per FTE that would give us a total of 19 available FT at this school which is quite a bit more flexible than the nine or 10 that these individual schools have. Now, if we take the current enrollment and start dividing that out using that FTE, you see these kinds of class sizes. Um, I don't know why that second grade is is offset. I'm not trying to do anything special there. Um, >> second grade is important. >> Yeah, very very important. Um, but it kind of just shows that we get away from classes in the teens and classes in the high30s. When you're able to divide by

067three or four, it really gives you some better flexibility. I think something also to be said that if you have a student and this is where it really does get difficult if you have that that class of 36 and you have somebody move into the neighborhood and they are in your boundary and you legally you have to take them and so all of a sudden you have a class of 37 and then you have later another student who moves in and then you have 38 and >> we're locked into FTE at that point and that's where it gets really really difficult for a teacher. >> It's a great point. spoken like a teacher. >> The other Can I just add to that? The other challenge to what Nicole's talking about and and maybe we've beat

068this dead horse already, but the the flexibility that you you lack um from a principal standpoint when you don't have more than one possible class that a student could land in. Maybe there's a conflict between two students, maybe there's a conflict between a student and parent. So, this does enhance the options. >> Yeah, we're going to talk about that in in more depth in just a moment, but exactly. Um, let's talk about soft money. Um, soft money is an important I say soft money, it's TSSA and land trust. These two allocations that go directly to schools. Um, when you have a smaller s this is always based off of how many kids are in the building. And and this you can see here with the larger enrollment, there's a total available between the two programs

069of upwards of $163,000. If you decided to lower class size, you could do that and still have money left over for all the other things that you might want to do. wherein these when they're split apart the dollar amount becomes so small that if you try to to augment your FTE allocation that's it and you don't even get to a full if that makes sense a full FTE um they just don't generate enough with those small schools so lots of uh flexibility here with these soft monies uh let's just talk about academic excellence I took the two schools proficiencies and combined them and then averaged the averaged across all tested subjects would put them at a 77% proficiency. This ranks them as amongst the very highest schools in the entire state. Um their growth scores

070again averaged across all tested subjects is a combined 68% which would rank them at or above superior on all of Utah's accountability model um categories which again like we are talking about an amazing school with an amazing outcome for both um current boundaries all students. Let's talk about the systems of support. This is going to get a little bit more to what Tyler was talking about that a larger school provides. When you have three to four in every grade level, it enhances the collaboration that a PLC can can enjoy. Um, obviously that's better than one and it's definitely better than two. At three or four, you start having some real collaboration in the PLC environment. How did you get that score? um that would maybe that conversation can be really enhanced. Um Mitch, >> yes.

071>> Mitch, just for anybody listening, can you make sure they know what PLC's are? >> Yes, thank you. Professional learning communities is a is the PLC is an acronym for professional learning communities. That is where teachers get together and they kind of talk about what do we want students to know and be able to do? How are we going to know whether or not they're they're doing that? and what are we going to do if kids haven't learned that or haven't gained that skill and what do we do for those that already have and how can we push them further and that those questions are best answered when you have a collaborative group that can compare data that can compare ideas um because uh for example Steve and I might be teaching third grade together

072and and he gets a much better score I can say how did you do that I'm going to try that next time I'm going retach it using your idea because your data is telling me that it's a better strategy than mine. >> That's kind of what I mean by PLC's. Um, >> so could I speak to that as well? >> Sorry, I wasn't getting scam for permission, but um, we were out at a school today with our leadership team and I visited two fourth grade classrooms and they were both working on the same lesson, the same instruction. They obviously taught it differently, but they had different approaches and strategies. But in our uh debrief after it was very clear that they had a very strong PLC. They collaborated very well together to make sure that

073they were benefiting the students with their instruction. So when we talk about the core of instructional improvement, it's this is a a key cog in that in that improvement. And so and let's be clear, until we're getting to 100% proficiency, we can always improve our instruction. >> Yeah. And even if we got 100% proficiency, how high was that proficiency? and >> we can always get better. >> I I will say we have some fantastic teachers that are obviously already doing a good job without that support. So, I mean, because we're approved, Eastwood and Oakidge both are fantastic schools and are the teachers are doing a phenomenal job, right? >> So, but you know, I mean, yeah, I I just want to point that out. It can be done within, you know, all by yourself, but

074it is easier, I think, when you have a team. >> To uh Tyler's point about choice, the ability when you have three or four classes per grade level, the school and the families have choice in teacher and student fit. So, for example, if uh this family has had Mrs. Jones with two other kids and it's just not a good fit for their family. It's nice that the third kid could have somebody else. Um it's great when the principal says, "These two kids, we know that they're going to struggle together. Let's separate them. Let's make sure that we we provide a way that they could be separate." Lots of options there um that are not uncommon. They are common things that choice enhances the overall experience for everybody involved. Um, any school has committees and responsibilities

075and usually those don't necessarily increase if the school's bigger. They stay the same. But now we have double if not more than double of the people to help share the load of those responsibilities. Becomes less of a burden on the the teachers that are working there. Um same with bus duty and recess duty. Um we're going to have additional itinerate staff because it increases the size of the student body that therefore the itinerate staff would would increase. Um and it would again enhance the ability to share the load. Fundraising larger community base again to share the load of what it would take. Um friendship and experiences. When you go out to recess and you just have the 30 kids in your class to play with, that's just not as robust an experience as 75 or

07680 kids from multiple classrooms to play with and and have an experience with and and grow together. And then again, this cohort size as you're going up together, it's better to go along with 60 to 80 classmates onto the junior high than than just this 30 35. Um, a quite a few benefits to a larger class that we don't we haven't delved into. We've referred to them, but I wanted to go through this is a just a win-win for everybody involved. Thanks, Mitch. Um, I'll just jump into the next one. This is just simply the busing eligible map. I don't know if there really any questions here, but I just wanted to include it as part of the presentation. Um, there's there's not a lot new on here. Any questions about the busing? >> I

077I know the community has been concerned and I I mean, it is a concern as far as the busing up that hill. Can you speak to that? >> I've talked to Dr. Gaddy, director of transportation, multiple times. He just does not see that as a concern as far as busing or or on a bad weather day. Um, just to remind everyone, buses are made for these types of things. Worst case scenarios, they have the automatic change that can come out to to get students up a bus. Um, we've been busing Immigration Canyon for years. Um, I believe they can handle Jupiter Drive if they can handle Immigration Canyon is is just I think my point on that. Um, do are there concerns about safe safest walking routes? Yes. Again, as we do everywhere and the

078student safety is is paramount. Um, lack of sidewalks and things like that are always a concern. So, we'll have to work especially hard on on the the safe walking routes and what are posted. Some have brought up the fact that um um we we've committed to you can see the red line there. That's the current boundary of of Eastwood where um um some students are picked up that we would have one bus for Immigration Canyon. In fact, um they would arrive at school sooner uh than uh in other words, if they go to Oakidge, we believe they'll get to Oakidge sooner. um or quicker than they do get to Eastwood now because there would be a separate bus for the other students in that area. So um that's a kind of a a quirky advantage

079when you go to a school further away yet the route changes therefore you will get to school sooner. >> Could I follow up Steve quickly? You bet. >> Is there a is there a cost to that additional bus? Meaning, is this a bus that's able to that's already in service or is there a capital cost for that additional bus that you just referenced? >> So far, according to Dr. Gaddy, because of changes around the district each year, this will be a net zero. So, even though those are additional bus for this school, we've gained it somewhere else in the district. So, we are currently with this plan a net zero, no additional cost. >> Can I follow up to that as well? If you look at the map, if if there was an Oakidge, if

080we were shifting Oakidge over to Eastwood as a merger, I believe we would actually be a net loss of two routes, if I recall from my conversation with Dr. Gaddy. Is that correct? Or am I misstating that? >> I am so sorry, Superintendent. Could you repeat that part? All right. Well, now I want Mitch to answer it cuz >> he he was asking me a clarification to make sure I I explained something. But was it two routes? I'm sorry. >> In the pre I know you guys discussed this in pack because I asked I just don't remember the answer. But when we were when PAC was considering you obviously considered Eastwood a merger to Eastwood or a merger to Oakidge, you had a map uh that showed what that would look like. We'd actually be

081transporting even more students if we were merging to Eastwood location and we wouldn't have a net zero impact on transportation. Is that correct? >> There would be more buses in the in the alternative with an Oakidge closer. >> Okay. And more students be required to be trans transported. >> Correct. >> Just clarifying. Thank you. >> Correct. >> That's what I thought you said the first time. Wanted to make sure. I do want to uh say that under the direction of our amazing superintendent um other duties as assigned um I was given the opportunity to go walk a similar route that students would walk and and and it was I'm 52 years old. It wasn't super >> to be clear. I just didn't want to walk by myself. So Steve and Mitch were both kind enough

082to walk with me >> and so we walked that route. we kind of got to experience what it might be to to walk along that route. Um, it took us we're we were walking fairly fast, so probably quite a bit faster than a first grader, but it took us 18 minutes to walk from the gas station to uh to the school, >> the Sinclair on Wasach at the corner of Wasach and Jupiter. Um, just stay on Jupiter all the way up to Oakidge. And again, we recognize that our steps are different than different aged children's steps. >> Is that what the I know the community council is the one that ultimately recommends the safe walking route, but is that do you feel that's the safest route is to go up that way? >> I don't

083think that was the intent and purpose of our taking that particular route. Okay. >> We actually I think intentionally took the most dangerous route to see what that was like. And I think it's safe to say that Jupiter is probably the busiest street there. It's the main thoroughfare through the neighborhood. So, that's good and bad. It's good and it's wide. It has bike lanes and and a kind of a walking shoulder on both sides, but yet the bad part is there's more traffic, right? This is common with a lot of our walking routes. So, it's it's in this area and and several other areas, >> right? >> I I would point I don't mean to cut you off. Sorry, Steve. that I I I think our point was to take the furthest and most dangerous

084route to kind of see what the the experience was like, the temperatures, the the time of day. Uh take a we went early in the morning to kind of take uh other factors into consideration. I don't believe that's the route that the the vast majority of people would choose to take. Um, if you can see that neighborhood and area that is directly east of Jupiter, that is in the Eastwood boundary. We estimate right there where his arrow is. Um, I actually was visiting with some parents the other day and they pointed this out to me again that they believe they believe based on our data that about half of those families already walk over and special permit to Oakidge because it's frankly shorter and a safer route. So invariably we do believe that again based

085on the data collection the vast majority of parents will continue to transport their their students via car or a vehicle. The most students uh would already be transported either by bus or through um uh what do we call them? Um cars. >> No. Thanks Steve. What would I do without you? Uh that's that's why I do what I do. >> It's been a long day. I apologize. No, we put a special stop there for guest writers. >> Courtesy stop. Thank you. Um but already the vast majority of those students in that area that would not be transported are likely already attending Oakridge. >> Correct. Thank you. >> So I I guess the reason why I ask is because I know that was a concern and and I share that concern that walking in front of

086is it the fresh market now? I don't remember what the part, >> but Oh, Macy's. Thank you. >> Anyway, walking in front of that, that's that is busy. That's a busy um shopping area in the morning especially, and I would hate to have kids walk in front of that with cars pulling in and out, going to the coffee shop, going to to Macy's, going So, that would probably though you you think that it would be better for them to go up at least Jupiter in that respect? >> That that's my opinion. I mean, I I've talked to parents over the years that prefer a actually a busier road that's well lit with a sidewalk versus a residential street with no sidewalks, no lighting, and it's hard, you know, it's hard to see in curves and

087all that. So, that very is very much a parent choice on on that one. I've seen both over the years. And has Mil Creek have I realize this is not our in our purview, but have have Mil Creek um has Mil Creek been in talks at all with okay, this is what we could do to improve lighting, this is what we can do to improve sidewalks. Have they have the residents reached out to them? Have they do we have any information on that? >> Yes and no. I there's been an ongoing effort to improve walking conditions since Mil Creek became incorporated as a city. So, I believe they have a prioritization and a process that they're going through to fund sidewalk improvements throughout their city. Um, and we've seen the benefits of that in some

088of our school locations. I know that uh location and walking routes, primary walking routes are a consideration for them. Um, in speaking with their folks u on this topic um even during our last uh round of of closures uh in the area 4. So, uh, recent conversations, no. However, I would also point out that as part of the transition process, we update the the new school community council would update the safe walking routes. Again, using the technical term, not because they're actually safe walking routes. Um, and then we share that information. They can't they we don't officially confer that information over until the school community council develops it and then we give it over to the municipality who then makes those appropriate adjustments to lights, traffic safety, um crossing guards, etc. based on where the

089majority of those students would be coming from. So, I would expect as part of this process and as new safe walking route maps are adopted by if this is approved by the board at the new merged um I'll use Steve's term Eastridge that uh that that information that area would become safer as a result of of efforts from uni unified police department Mil Creek precinct. I I would say anecdotally, not just this year, but over the years talking to people, I think this neighborhood, the combined Eastwood Oakidge neighborhood, if you will, is similar to other areas. And that is you'll find strong feelings of people that are currently advocating and have been for a while for sidewalks and street lights. And you'll find just the opposite of that, some folks that do not want that.

090And so, um, every community is different and they have different wants and desires. And then there's of course tax dollars at play and all those things. And so, but that's absolutely as superintendent describes. We do sit down at every opportunity with city engineers and and others once that preferred walking route is is um decided upon by the school community council and do as much as possible to make that as safe as possible. And I would just remind the public who's viewing and and Clark was part of this process a while back with the U Spring Lane closure. It will not be perfect on day one. And we will continue to monitor the situation in close coordination with city officials and with unified police to make other adjustments as we see the traffic patterns building and

091developing and then come back and make additional enhancements either to the drive-thru or to the conditions, the traffic conditions in the area. We've seen that in just about every other closure scenario that we've had where we have a new population coming to a school when we have a drive-thru being utilized uh in a different way, in a different manner. And the example I'm speaking to is when the vast majority of those Spring Lane families went to Oakwood, it frankly was a cluster for the first two weeks. We went out in coordination with Holiday City and with the uh uh Chief Hy from the Unified Police Department. We observed traffic. We worked with the school commun council and we made some enhancements to the drive-thru. Uh police made some enhancements to traffic safety lights. This will

092be a process um regardless of wherever we're at. And this isn't going to be a one-off situation. We will have to come back and address this just to make sure we're staying on top of it. So, please be patient with us through that process and continue to work if in fact this is approved by the board. >> Thank you. One more. I apologize if I and if I missed this, I doubly apologize. Can you tell me based on current estimates and current figures and under the guise of this proposal, how many and where the courtesy stops would be for what I would call the north north of the red line on your map that's on the board. out. >> I don't know 100% because it, you know, they don't know yet quite frankly until they

093design these bus routes in the spring. Um, one area though I will say that Dr. Gaddy has mentioned that kind of makes sense is you know kind of they want to make them technically they're supposed to make them on the way the typical route to a school as much as possible. So they'll they'll decide a couple of key points along the way that are on the way and uh typically at at some of our larger intersections, but that really is decided. Sometimes a larger intersection is not the best place. You know, it gets kids too close to traffic and those things. So um that that the drivers and others kind of drive that area and and where students live. So we don't have 100 students walking when it could be half that just to get

094to a place. So, it really is that's designed a little later. Um, I'll go quickly to the next slide and and I say quickly because there are no changes here. This is still the current recommendation. It has been um since September 2nd where uh this part of Morningside would be boundary to Rosest and part of the Wilson boundary to Rosest. Also, I'm going to keep going unless I hear the buzzer where somebody wants to to ask questions on that one. This is simply the busing eligible map for that area. Um, you do see some of that hatched area, but really on on the east side around that morning side, but that's those are not residential. They just still show up. But those the hatched area up there, if you see the cursor, in other words,

095there's no busing really up there. It's all over here on this western side. There still remains from the pack a uh morning side closure of the boundared boundary um students. I'll quickly go over this part again. The these are the reasons. This is the data that people are asking for and it's a combination of these things. I always say and it's it's just so true. It's it's rarely one thing. It's a combination of things. So the lower inboundary school utilization. This one's kind of tricky because people see the total utilization of the school. This is a one of our larger schools quite frankly with five over 550 students. Yet we're talking about the emphasis there on inbounded utilization because we know that long-term that's the most predictive um measure is the inboundary students. uh the

096non-ontiguous boundary that exists that we just discussed that would be recommended to Rosest a lower FCI that's a little relative I understand that I was pushed on what that means lower but it's an FCI of 20 and it's not the factor but again a factor >> sorry lower FCI just to clarify because I I think a big question for a lot of people is why Morning Side why not Driggs why not Crest View why not >> you bet >> is that is that part of it is that >> that's part of it. >> I'm going to go to these next two slides and then if you want me to circle back to that I think it helps answer that part but but it's a fantastic question. >> Um so this so-called school geographic cluster that

097I'm going to show on the next slide kind of answers part of that the impact on the traditional classes. Um, and perhaps this should be bold because a lot of it goes back to that same issues at Eastwood and Oakidge and we've talked about for years the the traditional classes there and the concerns we have. Um, it helps balance out enrollment in the other schools again with that northern part going to Rose. Uh also in this proposal, all Morningside students from this area would become boundary to two Driggs Elementary and it does not change junior high boundaries, which is very very important. That's almost lost sometimes, but I keep wanting to stress our junior high boundaries uh and feeders are very much a unique part feature of this study and um and this is one

098of those areas why. So why why? So if you look at again this geographic clustering of schools that just 50 60 70 years ago when schools were built that's kind of that was the way it was done. You you built them smaller you built them closer together they were truly walking schools for multiple reasons. Um but if you look at that and you you say you take Crest View and and they have a quite frankly a higher FCI a very nice walking boundary walking school. Those are the things we want. They're healthy. Um things seem to be good there. Um Driggs, it's a larger capacity. In this case, the pack likes the larger capacity schools. It also um has a larger FCI and when another FCI comes out in a few years, hopefully you'll see

099that FCI go up because of the significant remodel. But if we can hold on to our schools with a larger capacity, that gives us flexibility down the road um with other potential changes. Hopefully not for a long time, but it but it's a reality if something has to change. Um then you jump up to Oakidge. Um if they're taking Eastwood students, that that kind of takes them out of the loop. Um and then you're almost by process of deduction and going back to all of these other factors. So, uh, board president that it it's this one's hard. It's because a lot of people keep saying, "What is it? What makes the difference?" It's all of those things. It's not one thing. You can compare other people a few nights ago compared this one to pin

100and there are some comparables and quite frankly, you can make that pros and cons list and there are legitimate things on both sides of those list. But it's that one list becomes larger in our mind and some things are unchangeable and some things are obvious and it's a combination of these things that led us uh to Morningside and quite frankly this again if you look at the traditional you have two French one ALC per grade and one and and first and second a split. This is a big deal. It is a big deal and maybe I haven't stressed it enough or articulated this enough or well enough to help people to see our concern here but when you have programs at schools it it quite frankly complic complicates things especially when you have um fewer

101not lower class sizes like you mentioned but fewer classes per grade and in this case one and less than one. we are trying to to come up with solutions here. So, and that's that's a huge factor. >> Um, just doing the math there. If you take out kindergarten, and the reason I'm saying if you take out kindergarten is, um, folks seem to be putting students into kindergarten at Morningside so that maybe they have a better chance of getting into DLI or ALC cuz look at how much bigger that is than the traditional program. and then how much it falls off. You add up all of those traditional classes and we are students. 98 students in a traditional school. That's a that's pretty small. >> What's the percentage of the kids do you have? I don't

102even I should have asked this earlier. I apologize. I just thought about this. What's the percentage of the kids in the DLI that are from the Morningside boundary? It is on our website. I'll have to look at that. I'm always hesitant to recite percentages, but I I'll just tell you this that whenever you have a program at a school, so in both cases, ALC and DLI in this case, the majority of the students in that program are going to come from that boundary. It just think about it. It makes sense. It's proximity. It's there. I like it. Therefore, I'm more likely to do that versus students that live miles and miles away from a boundary. Uh, could I ask a question? >> Oh, thanks. Um I there's some technicality to an actual school closure and

103leaving programs there under state law and I just want to be very transparent about what the pack is actually recommending or is the recommendation to leave cuz cuz I had a meeting with some parents the other day and there was actually some compelling evidence long-term or some adjustments and that's why I'm actually looking more favorably upon this current recommendation because it does leave us some options down the road um if if things continue to decline, right? Um or uh if we're not as successful as we hope to be in drawing additional students to a DLI French program or expanding as we continue to study the ALC program. >> Um is this going to be an official school closure and create a new magnet school like we did under the law? I there's a technicality there,

104right? Um or would we have to go through the whole school closure process again if say DLI were to shift to another school down the road? Uh andor ALC. Um I believe the current recommendation if I'm not incorrect. The recommendation from PAC is to leave ALC at Morningside for the current time being till we can study it further. But it's anticipated that it would move at some point in time. going to I'm going to question. Yes. Let me circle back and say >> the pack considers this an a boundaried school closure. In fact, that's what we're saying. The boundaried students wouldn't move to another school to dri um program or programs at the school. It becomes a a place to house or host programs. So in the event, we hope not, but in the event

105something changes with a program in the future and and a program moves, then that process is is much less cumbersome um and difficult quite frankly than a process that we're going through now with boundaried students. >> Can I ask about the ALC? Um generally, just because I have one in my area, they pick up it is kind of boundary. These are this is the area and they pick up from the junior highs and they bus those kids to the ALC program. >> Are do we have right now a bus coming to the to Morningside with the ALC kids or do all the ALC kids just the parents just drive them? >> Um, >> in fact we bus. >> We do have a bus. >> We bus. In fact, I'm going to jump up a couple

106of slides and go back. So, let's jump right to the ALC issue. Uh, this was the original update we had not long after. U this was a part of the email word for word that went out to the community and where we we originally talked about a recommendation to consolidate um at Woodstock. We've since said no, we're not going to do that. We're going to take some time to study the AOC program, the testing methods, and a lot of the issues that were brought up u excellent issues by the parents. And so the decision was morning uh Woodstock will keep their program. We have to decide where um uh the current the program that's at ALC ALC program at Morningside where it will end up. So our this is the pack's recommendation at this point.

107The pack is recommending that the ALC program remains at Morningside Elementary um along with the French DLI that we have been um recommending. There's certainly capacity for both of those. Um I'll just stress here that that nothing is perfect, but we believe this is a good solution for these reasons. Um AOC allows AOC to keep the 905 start time. That doesn't sound like too big a deal, but if it goes back to Clark's question one, if it moves to a different starttime school, it would add a minimum of two buses um a net, you know, and that's literally, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the does it have to be the purchase of new buses, new drivers, all of those things. But it extra costs are incurred or the other side of

108that is we move the start time of the other school to 9:05 and uh which is also very difficult quite frankly and there's a reason we don't typically move start times because people um create their lives and routines around the school start times. So it's not impossible. Doesn't mean we can't, but it's just a reason ALC and French DLI can continue to share the transportation resources. So to your question, board president, yes, they currently ALC currently is picked up at school locations. So they have bus stops at school locations. Now, I talked to Dr. Gaddy again this morning. Um, based on current numbers, we would have room for another hundred students, DLI students. If they just come to those current, whatever those locations are, they probably would remain the same. I assume if they come

109there, we have room for at least another hundred of the DLI based on history and how many students choose to use transportation services. That's probably everyone that wants transportation. Again, going back to the Eastwood and Oakidge where 80 to 90% are dropped off. Um, I think we'll have plenty of room for any all ALC and DI that want transportation that would be available. So, that's another added benefit of keeping those at the same location. >> What's the Just out of curiosity, what's the start time of Driggs? Do you know? >> Okay, great. Um, >> oh, 8:40. >> Yes, it is 8:40. And and that's a you're ahead of me because I'm going to address that again in a second. No other school is impacted while an ALC study is completed. We've heard from the parents,

110ALC parents, why move us? And it's a fantastic question. Why move us until the district conducts a study to see long-term what is going to happen with ALC? Um, and it makes sense. And the more we think about it, of course, that just makes sense. And so, um, instead of moving somewhere this year and doing a study and perhaps maybe, we don't know, but perhaps moving again, uh, we we take that out of the equation. Um, keeps proximity to Churchill, the natural French DLI feeder. Um, that I think that's kind of a big deal for both of those programs to to keep DLI there and a lot of the ALC as, uh, we anticipate some of those would go together, the Churchill. Finally, all siblings of ALC and DLI students would have priority to Driggs.

111Why did I say Driggs? Because again, this is a little unusual for our district, but not unusual across the country to have a school that is a magnet school for programs only. So, in other words, um they will not have traditional students there. So, siblings, there are currently 20 families with siblings and if if I remember my numbers right, that's like 25, 26, 27 students total. Um, of those siblings that are coming, they would have priority if they want, if they choose to go to Driggs. It's the next closest school, half a mile away, and it's also a 25minute uh difference, which is perfect, quite frankly. Um, so if if a family chooses to do that, you you can from 8:40 to to 9:05, you have time to do the pickup and drop off a

112half mile away. And it's also a pretty good walking route between schools. So, um, again, this is not I I understand it going to satisfy some folks that obviously would prefer and I think we would prefer in a perfect world to have siblings together as much as possible. But this is a model that is is more um um common around the country and to have have uh two programs in one place without traditional students and we feel like this is a pretty reasonable response is trying to keep them as close as possible and that's why we say that all the siblings would have priority at Driggs. That's that's the rationale of PAC for keeping ALC with DOI. So two programs hosted at that campus without traditional students. >> You can see I just put that

113map in there again to see that the as a reminder Morningside and Driggs and and I clocked that and and looked at it carefully. It's it's like 0.52 miles. >> I have a question. You bet. Um, how long do you anticipate the ALC study? Um, one school year, two school year, like what is is there a >> So, I'll take that question if you don't mind because that's not really in PAC's perview. So, that will be up to the board uh to designate and request that study. I I'm prepared to initiate a committee uh to address that further, but I expect that we would want to take at least a year to kind of review some of the information, hold some additional meetings um with the public, with our ALC parents in that area and

114determine uh what type of model or approach we want to take moving forward. And then that would in turn help guide decision making on a potential relocation uh to a more permanent location. Okay. Thanks. >> Sorry, I just didn't want Steve to >> I'm glad. Thank you. >> Can I follow up on that real quick? >> Would that be studied next year per chance or because next year we've already kind of planted seeds that we'll be studying some of the things out on the west side, meaning a bigger deep deeper dive into the dust settling with, you know, dos mundos and and does that work? So would those be both next year studying the magnet DLI out there and ALC or one after another? Just curious the timing. >> Yeah. And I I don't think

115we're I think PAC's recommendation they feel comfortable with ALC remaining at Morningside for the time being. Our families have obviously indicated they feel comfortable staying at at Morningside. So there's not a huge rush to get this completed. I would suspect that uh this study group would make uh some recommendations after an extended period after going back to the public uh with our ALC families and having some back and forth. So again a 12 to 18month process that does not coincide with the pack process but then would come back and dovetail in with the pack study process at the appropriate time because even to move a program there's a component of even if this isn't an official school closure at that point in time to move a program there are some similar requirements that that we

116would want to follow the pack process under state law. Does that make sense? So basically they can run side by side. The dos mundus would be more of a look through pack and you'd be looking at ALC more administratively through this committee. >> Correct. >> Okay. Just want to make sure I understood. >> And that would be more curriculum heavy folks. So Noel and Lesie would be a key part of that. [Music] >> Great questions. Right. Circling back again, one one other thing I wanted to bring up that we did discuss. You may have noticed in your inboxes along with mine, we've gotten quite a few um folks from the Cottonwood area that are requesting more students. When I say more students, this is the current recommendation. So again, those if those students from Morningside

117come to Driggs, then the domino effect is we're recommending two areas. one that was 70 and one approximately 30 be boundaried to Cottonwood Elementary. Um, and again, we we know we've said all along and continue to say that we don't anticipate all of those 100 students showing up in one year. It'll take several years to see the full impact of that. But, um, there's some momentum in the Cottonwood area to say, well, that helps, but not enough. We want more students from that Driggs area. And when they say more, they're typically referring when they'll they'll say below 4500 south or up here it's 4420 then it becomes 4500. So everything south Oops. Um let's go back. Sorry. So everything in that area below that line and that area is about another 75 to 80 students.

118Now this one's a little tricky. It's tough. We we debated this for a bit. I don't think there's a perfect answer here because I could probably make a reasonable debate on either side and this is what I mean is if we knew it it's tricky because we don't know yet uh because of all the moving parts as I called it in that Driggs boundary um how many of those students will end up at Driggs or did I say that right in the Morningside boundary with with the potential closure of Eastwood um where some of those students going to end up that are currently living in the Morningside boundary with ALC, with DLI, with IB, with Gold STEM. There are a lot of things happening in this area. Um, it looks like we could have anywhere

119from as low as 75, probably 100 on the low end to 175 come to Driggs from that area. There are a lot of decisions to be made by parents with with these changes. So if if I was more comfortable with that number, I would be more comfortable in making a recog um a a change here with for more students to Cottonwood. It may be a bridge too far. And in fact, that's what we're saying so far is why we're hesitant to make a move for additional students, another 75 to 80 from Driggs to Cottonwood. um because we we we don't know that yet. Um so it's it's so far we we are saying we're to not move those students not move more students to Cottonwood um because it could be too much and um so

120that that is still the current recommendation is is to hold that number. Any questions on that part? questions, discussion. >> Could I just make a suggestion um to the board that this is I I know that there have been other questions and it was suggested uh at the last meeting that there were still a number of outstanding questions or requests for data or information. This is the optimal time to very publicly um even if you've had other opportunities to discuss those since that time with Steve to make known your other questions that you might have had and give Steve a chance to respond to those so that the rest of the public we can be as transparent as possible I guess is is is my encouragement in terms of the the questions that were lingering

121for you specifically um and to make sure the public knows that we've had a chance to address those. Um, I want to be very careful here. The the the feedback sometimes we get um in some of these meetings based on the format that it's been set up uh when we've been invited is that sometimes we're dismissive to those questions. Um, and that's never our intent. Um, I I I've seen Steve work very hard. And I know that I have been very diligent to try to be respectful to those questions and not be dismissive of the suggestion or the uh the inquiry, but simply trying to help people understand what the the the pack's thinking is on that specific subject. Not that they're wrong and somebody else is right, but that's a good question. This is

122what PA's thinking was. that doesn't mean you can't disagree and it can't mean that they're right and you're wrong. Um, but in in light of that, I I just want to make sure that we take every opportunity to to put everything out here um as appropriate um uh for the public to be able to see and understand what the PAC's thinking is and why they've come up with and finalize this recommendation. Is that fair? >> You bet. There was I I know the comment superintendent in in the last board meeting that uh perhaps we would uh have questions submitted. I would respond in writing and those would be posted on the website. But there was a a pivot from that approach and and we we simply had conversations. Um, the a lot of the people

123that are maybe listening to this or will listen to this will know that I prefer conversations over written responses most of the time because I can provide the tone and nuance and and follow-up questions immediately that I feel like answer the questions better. And that is um and also a reason we quite frankly have so many public meetings and uh so that we can try to answer those questions that way versus just always in writing. So that's that's um I did uh today I spent a lot of time on the phone with patrons and going over and and explaining things. But and I'll just add one more thing. I appreciate you saying that this isn't obviously it's complex. This isn't a black and white issue. It's not as if every time a patron or community

124brings up something and we say something slightly different. That doesn't mean that what they're saying is wrong or what we're always saying is wrong. It's sometimes a degrees of good, better, best and that's the challenge we have in PAC is trying to come up with the good better best solutions and and sometimes it's just a difference of I hear you community and the pack hears that and we also this is our rationale for um for our recommendation. So few things we hear are that we get are inaccurate or wrong or just just not good. It's mostly all good. And we're trying to remember come up with a collective general approach for all of the schools and not just one area. And sometimes that does conflict with a personalized approach that works for one community or

125one person. And I just before we move forward, I just want to make sure that we're very clear about this for the public that is listening. This is not an action item. We are not taking any action tonight. We are simply discussing things. We're discussing possibilities. This all falls within the purview of what we passed before what we or action before. So this is not this is nothing that we're taking an action on. We have we have notified these communities that there could possibly be a change. I'm assuming that we've gone over that. That is within the law. We are still within that that >> correct that. >> Yes. And and while it's it meets a couple tenants of the law uh both in the narrowing of the scope that occurred in September, but the

126broad notification that uh we were open to closures in any any of the schools or boundary adjustments in any of the schools in area 5. So with that broad legal notification back in March, we're well within the 120 days required by state law. >> Thank you. I just want to make sure that our public understands we're not taking an action tonight. >> Correct. >> The action will take place in November in about a month when we have our board meeting. >> Correct. >> It does behoove itself if you don't mind. I I just point out because obviously the board has the ability to alter the recommendation because of that notification requirement. the board can accept the recommendation. They can decline and do nothing with the recommendation. They can um alter the recommendation because of the

127way that we and the approach that we took on this was to ensure that the board had as much flexibility as possible in their decision-m. >> Connie, do you want to go first? So, um, I asked Tyler about since you said so much about PLC's, I said, "So, what is the what do the ALC teachers do when they're alone?" So, I said I appreciated what he told me and I thought, well, let's get out and have him talk and tell me tell us what ALC people teachers usually will do. >> Well, now we'll see if I'm right, though. Um, no, this is um a common challenge when you've got a teacher who's in more of a singleton type situation. often happens with some of our programs in secondary schools as well well where there might

128not be someone who's doing the exact same program or class or grade as as you are. Um Dr. Muhammad talked about it. Your PLC is the person who shares the most learning outcomes with you. And that's really easy when it's, you know, three or four third grade classes to say, "Yeah, we all share the same learning outcomes across these classes." And in an ALC situation, sometimes you do end up with those singleton scenarios. Some of the solutions to that have been often working on a a remote uh situation doing Zoom or that with with other ALC teachers doing the same grade at other locations. Um there is room to even do some PLC work between an ALC teacher and a regular ed teacher if um they are in the same grade level because this the

129standards are the same. Although how they're going about it might have a different approach or different enrichment activities, the standards still are the same. So there's a lot of opportunities for them to double up on their learning outcomes from that. Anything else that someone else has that enhances my answer? >> When I was the principal at Churchill County, um we had some similar issues, especially in a secondary school, you'll have these quote singletons and uh in a smaller secondary school. So once a quarter we combined with Wasach and and literally went to trade it back and forth where we went to school to the schools physically and drove over there so that we have a chance to do that face to face. In addition um you know you have the the phone calls the the

130teams meetings and all that. So you can get creative, but it's much more ideal when you can talk every day in the faculty meeting, in the hallway, in the classrooms, and say, "This is what we're doing, and and this is what's working." >> Is that all you had, Connie? >> Okay, Clark, did you have anything? >> Yes. Let me see if I can pose this question the right the right way and the appropriate way to you. Uh Steve, on behalf when when you speak on behalf of the population analysis committee as its chair, what what do you believe the the pack would like to convey to uh the question that asks why would you uh choose to close or or merge as as you've used the term this evening? Why would you close to merge?

131Why would you propose to close or merge two of the top performing elementary schools in the state if what they are doing and the and the approaches that they have applied thus far have been as successful um as they have been? Why why change that? Why why go out of the way? >> You bet. uh to make adjustments to that. And maybe I know you've talked about some of those reasons this evening already as you have in the past, but maybe you could just highlight the top three to five reasons that you think that the the members of the committee would want to convey in response to that question. >> Right. just even the top two or three in one. I'll just first of all go back to the what what um Mitch referred to

132earlier and that is we don't the pack doesn't feel like we're taking something great and destroying it. Quite the opposite. We're taking something that's already working and we think it can work even better. We're taking great and making it stupendous. We're taking great and making it amazing with more resources with those combined resources and economy of scale. Now the downside of course will one community will see this as not great because not it's not at their location and there are that that's the cons if you will the pros and cons but that's the cons to to get us to from great to even better is is a change of location but we still feel like how can we not be better if you're combining two fantastic schools with more resources available and all of these

133advantages of a larger school and choice and opportunity and resources. We feel like it's just that and that's hard to see for all of us. That's human nature. It's hard to sometimes we have changes in life that we're worried about and we get to those new places or locations or changes and we realize it's even better. And and and I can say that because we've seen it. The silver lining again of of having to do this hard thing for a number of years now is we have some experience and wisdom and hindsight of making some of these decisions. And that is we can look and hear parents, administrators, teachers. I I got to be admit quite frankly not too loudly but softly they'll tell us sometimes loudly but they'll tell us this has been a

134good thing. It was hard at first and we didn't like it at first, but by and large we hear that more and more often every year. Actually, this was a good thing. And I know when I say that some people are are going to be upset at me because right now in the heat of this difficult thing, but that that's in general my answer. Now, the other part of the answer is, and I got to be very careful here with this because I understand we understand in the pack what our wheelhouse is and what is not. But yet when we when we look at the um we we talk about this um I want to make sure I'm very clear on factors considered in a boundary change or closure efficiency of district resources and fiscal

135considerations. This is in board policy. Now, if we have two great schools and we combine those and there's no other reason, although I'm sure people have reasons or they don't want it to happen, but if all all other things being an equal and we can create efficiency of district resources and fiscal considerations and use our buildings and taxpayer funds more efficiently, then we feel like that that's an okay thing. We're always hesitant to start talking about money because we're very clear that this is not about money first issue. This is about students and student outcomes and resources and opportunities first. Period. Full stop. However, if after that we can also do what we should and that is make recommendations based on efficiency of resources and and and our fiduciary responsibility. I say our quite frankly,

136I know that's more of the board's responsibility. But then we say yes that is something that we should consider and and um knowing of course that our job is the recommendation and your more difficult job is the decision. I just want to add one more comment um really for the benefit of of the rest of the board. Um that we you know we've attended a number of public meetings and events um and obviously there's been um various forms of of opposition to any change um articulated at those events. But I think it's um incumbent on me to at least acknowledge to the rest of you that I have also received um what I would consider to be private emails um from various from patrons of of these various schools who have told me, "Hey, this

137isn't working as well as we think it could for my son or daughter." Um, and we're looking forward to this change for some of the reasons that Steve has articulated. So, I there are two two sides, so to speak, to the to the discussion, and I think it's important to acknowledge both um opponents and and proponents to some of these proposed changes. I'll just add that I've received similar emails, Clark, but it's just the nature of the process is most of the emails and responses are not that, but I can tell you again from hindsight that after a decision is made, we typically get a lot of folks come up and say, "Thanks. I I wanted that." And I'm like, "Where were you six months ago? Why didn't we hear that?" But it just helps

138to give a a broader perspective to us and the board that it it's and I I can't put a number to that but but there is a there is um the other side of that. Thank you. >> Thank you clerk Connor. Go ahead. >> And I was just saying thank you is that we certainly haven't received them for for the whole board. >> Yeah. Karen, go ahead. >> I don't have a question per se, but I want to put this out there. you know, we we sit through hours of these open, you know, meetings where um patrons and constituents are able to ask their questions as they rightly should. And so, I just want to thank everyone who's made all the efforts to come out and share their various perspectives um on that. Just like

139Clark was saying, there's two sides to every story. You know, even the thinnest pancake has two sides. It's one of my favorite things. And so you have to I want the public to to know that as we have sifted through the the feedback spreadsheet and the emails we're getting and listening to public comment and our board meeting and these public meetings that we've had, the pack study meetings, it's clear to me that there is no way that whatever we decide is going to keep everybody happy. And we have emails saying keep this school open and close this school and then the next email will say the opposite. Well, just just with that small example, you know, we're going to be making somebody upset. And so to those people who might not come out on the

140happy side of our vote, I just want to say that we still have heard you and we appreciate the the perspectives and feedback that we've given. And I'm still pondering this myself, but I'm just speaking very high level ideologically. Somebody's going to end up upset. And and I think it's important to remember that being heard does not mean getting your way. Being heard is we're going to take your feedback and I'm going to really think about that critically. I'm going to go through the feedback. I'm going to go through the data. I'm going to go through everything that's been prepared for us and I'm going to study. That's why we call it a study. And I'm going to study it out. And and unfortunately, I'm going to come to have to make a decision that's

141going to hurt some people. And I don't like that. But at the end of the day, I want everybody to know you have been heard even though you might not get the vote outcome that that you want. So it that's that's this is one of the worst parts of of being a board member is knowing that you're making a decision where you're not going to make everybody happy. Um so I just wanted to state that and that's kind of some of my thinking and it it literally weighs on me. Um because you know you're coming into this our next two meetings, one in November, one in December having to make some hard choices that are going to maybe not be liked by many. And um regardless, you know, which way I go, um I'm still

142still thinking about that, of course, but uh but just wanted to put that out there that it's it's hard. Thanks, Karen. Appreciate that. I think and to her point as well, we've all we've all had schools in each of our areas that have closed and we've all gone through this process with our communities and it's it's heart-wrenching. It is one of the toughest things that we've done. So, thank you. I'm gonna turn it over to Chris. >> Thanks. My mic has a lot of feedback. Um I I have a quick question about on the fall enrollment and then projected the slide. I think it's slide 18. It's the one right before the end discussion. I'm I don't know if I'm reading this correctly, but I'm trying to figure out where the ALC student numbers are

143because when it says Morningside closed, but then it says French DLI school. Is that projected enrollment including the ALC or where are they on this? >> Are you looking at a table? Sorry. >> Yeah, the table. The area five elementary school. >> And I I apologize. I did make a correction. I don't have the table with me. But if you're looking at Tell me one more time. You're looking at French DLI number. >> It says French DLI number. It says um projected new enrollment 320 to 350. Is that including the ALC? >> No, that's a fair point. So I I I need to update that. So that that number is just as it says French DLI. Now if you add another about 150 it um AOC is 140 to 150ish it for a long time

144historically per school. So that gets you up to anywhere between you know 500 give or take 5 to 525. If we just round it up in 350 and 150, we get up to 500. And we know the capacity is 650, 6 to 650. >> It says 600 on there. So I'm just wondering if it'll be it's going to be very similar to what it is right now. Correct. So it says slight. So it'll just be a little >> right with room to be flexible. I mean, if that DI program continues to grow, fantastic. We have the room to do that. Because my question is if we're trying to do this magnet French program, will this first year we probably won't be able to draw >> a lot of students to that with the >> correct

145>> ALC? Okay. So, we're just kind of >> continuing >> the first year, we would anticipate the bump coming mostly from uh kindergarten. >> If you have two kindergarten classes, which is approximately 60 students, then that that takes you up 60 automatically. Now, the rest of it is a two to three to four year process because most of the time you're going to add students in kindergarten per second and work your way up. Um, it's it's more difficult to add a student if they're not heritage speakers in French than it is say Spanish, which where we have more heritage speakers. So, it's a build. It's a two to three to four year build to get to that number. Okay, >> that's what we anticipate. And I just wanted to make sure that we so we

146have capacity at Morningside to add the kindergarten PLI onto to that keep the ALC for this school year before >> I think for several school years for you know >> yes >> so staffing will be similar is >> similar but what it does again is take away the challenges of also having the traditional classes there and when you have a program um then you've taken away a a lot of the challenges that we have at our small school programs. >> For sure. Okay. Um my other question was um I talk a lot about retention. You know, we want our students are in Granite School District for a reason. They obviously love our schools. Um when we when we are closing schools and we're making these adjustments, can you explain how we try to keep our

147retention? Like what's our outreach to these affected parents and families? And um I know our principles and schools they're coming into are usually so fantastic to welcome these students in and we do a lot of that. But I'm just wondering like with this particular closure, what's our outreach and and retention formula looking like? How >> I I'll say in general, one of the things we learned early on in the first couple of years doing this was we needed to get better quickly and we have at the transition. So after December 2nd, if the board chooses to to take these recommendations immediately, in fact, Mitch is the chair of that transition team, we we schedule meetings and start working with communities about um getting communities together, whether that's um community councils, PTAs, parent groups, tours of

148schools, carnivals, you name it. any activity to to start to market and and expose students to those new schools and new new cultures and to not just expose to but combined with we want we want them to bring all of their um good things and culture to to the new school they're going to. So, um, that that transition process I feel like we've gotten pretty good at and have shared that with quite a few other districts in recent years >> and and we're consciously and actively work working on plans to make this even better. >> We this merger I I just shared all those slides with you that I would argue magic only happens if everybody shows up. We got to have all we got to have those numbers. And so we've got to do

149whatever we can do to make this feel like a winwin for everybody. And we're going to do a lot to make that happen. Um lots of things are being discussed around ways to make it feel like this is our school, not this is your school that I'm coming to, but this is our school. Um a lot of engagement with that community will will ensue. I I' I'd also add um we've seen some in my opinion some very good early returns on our new communications uh people in place and marketing people and we will absolutely use them to more than they will probably want to be used. We're going to use them a lot to help in this in this effort. >> Well, and I appreciate that because I think that is one of my concerns

150as a board member is you know when we do these closures Oh, I have a lot of feedback on Sorry. Sorry. My mic is really um that we keep we keep our students in granite because I think if they're having a good experience, hopefully they realize they can still have a good experience. And um I think school closure shouldn't be we're losing students every time we close a school. And we do know we will lose some. But I feel like if we can be proactive in a better positive way because I feel like all these schools are so strong. We have such this is like a strong area of schools that we want to keep a strong community >> for sure >> and so I appreciate those efforts. So thanks Mitch. >> I think comparable

151Oh, sorry. >> Go ahead. >> Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I know that Mitch has actually already had some discussions with school community council members. Uh there's been some ideas generated from the community itself that are amazing. Um we want this to be as successful as it can possibly be. Um and so we're we're committed to enhancing that process even more um through more direct collaboration with those communities. >> Kim, do you have anything? >> I just I don't have any other questions at this point. And I just want to share and I guess make the statement that I I I don't know that I have enough um information, data, whatever you want to call it to convince me yet at this point that it is necessary to close Eastwood. And so I

152still have, you know, I guess more digging on that to do. I I understand everything that was presented tonight. I understand in general the benefits we're looking to achieve, but just the old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If a school is succeeding and doing well, it's hard for me to say I'm ready to to close that school. So, I just want to put that out there on the table. On the one hand, we say we we need to close it because it's got all these small school problems. on the other hand were also saying, "Well, it's great. We're just going to make it better." So, I just, you know, looking to reconcile those two things. Just want to put that out there so everyone knows where I currently stand, but I I

153don't think I have any additional questions right now. >> Thanks, Kim. Julie, >> hi. >> Um, okay. So, um I wanted to just also make sure to mention that they're going there have been no changes, right, to the um recommendation for Rose Crest. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, those still stand. Um I would like to understand at Rose and at Driggs according to this recommendation what percent of the kids you would project would be um boundary to each of their split they'll become split feeder junior highs. drugs drugs is already but it would change that percentage and I would like to know what percent of kids would go to each junior high from that elementary I think that's that would be helpful to understand just to get the sense of how that

154is going to play into you know the school chemistry >> right >> um and the support I I mean the success of the split feeder init initiative there you know >> um >> I would say Julie >> want to say something about that >> you bet before I lose my train of thought on on that part that part of the question so for instance at Rose um no secondary feeders no junior high or high school feeders change so even though that Morningside group um it comes to Rosest they continue to go to Wasatch and the same with that small group coming from Wilson, only about 15 to 20 students, the benefit to them is is I think a win-win because um they get to remain the entire time at the elementary, junior high, and high

155school level with their same group. So, it's when we move a an elementary group from one feeder to another and they're small. So, in this case, I would say 8 to 10% from Morningside to Rose. Um but yet they don't change. They're still going to the same secondary feeder. The same with Morningside and that group going to to Driggs. They remain at Church Hill and that's been a big focus of this study is are the secondary schools and trying to maintain or keep the secondary schools at the very least where they're at, if not grow them. So So no secondary feeder changes are proposed. it. >> Yes. I think that you're looking at it from um I think you don't understand the perspective I want to see it from. I want to see it from

156the elementaryaries perspective. So my fifth grade class at Driggs, what percent of those fifth graders are going to end up like or you know boundary to Church Hero and and to Olympus Jr. And I I want to understand this because I want to be able to understand the social dynamic for those fifth graders. >> Sure. >> Hey, Steve, real quick. I just want to clarify. I think I wanting to make sure that you're >> that we're not understanding this right because you said there's not a change in the feeders, but Rose will be a split feeder. >> Okay. >> So, that is not the community, >> right? >> That's what he's getting at. Not a change in the there's not a change in what they from where they currently attend to where they will continue

157to attend. So >> it makes Rose Crest a split feeder. >> Okay. So the feeder changes, but the the boundary So it's the boundary that doesn't change. >> Okay. I just want to make sure we we're >> Yes. Thank you. I think it's really important and what you're bringing up, Nicole, is important. Those 40 kids definitely change. They go to a school. They're going to go with friends and the majority of those friends are not going to go to the same junior high that they're going to go to. And the hardship for me I it's for when we say 40 kids oh that's that's the size well it's like six or seven per grade level if you divide that out. It's pretty tough. >> Yeah. I think that's the that's what I want to make

158sure that I understand and you know if if that's how it needs to be okay but I want to make sure that I understand what that data looks like you know and and what what sacrifices I'm making if if you will you know if I have to make that as a sacrifice. Um so I would like to see that information. Um, I really appreciate the work you guys have done with the STEM program at uh, Eastwood to figure that out, to negotiate, to make sure that we could keep that. Um, that clearly is a program that's really valuable to our parents. And, um, I think now there needs to be start to be discussion about what STEM and PYP looks like. And um I I think that parents would like to know that. I I

159don't know that I need to know that before I vote, but I I would love to be able to sit down with somebody and just have a discussion um about, you know, what what that looks like um at some point. Um other questions or or issues? I want to make sure the board is aware. Um, what if we make a school at Morningside that's just ALC and DLI with the idea that any of the kids who left the DLI program or the ALC program would have priority at Driggs. Um, it still does put a family at a, you know, in a real dither about, you know, you, it makes it hard for a family to have their entire family at one school. And um if my child is in the ALC and they don't test

160into it in third grade, now they have to leave their friends and they have to go to a different school rather than just move into the traditional program. So I I and and then if my kid moves to Driggs because they're in the traditional program now I have, you know, I I have two different fundraisers, two different fund runs to, you know, like you're it's just and and parents can make that choice. I just want to make sure that we're all thinking about that because that is a drawback to that plan. Um, I'm not sure that it's such a drawback that it means we shouldn't do it. I'm just I like to go into these things wide open. You know, I don't know if you guys have anything to say about that before I move

161to my next issue. >> I I I just add, Julie, that I hear you and I can't disagree. It's another one of those that's not wrong. Um it is legitimate concern and again we in this district um this is not normal for us to to have the situation where we um have done this. Now we we've kind of done it last year with dos Mundos but this is even another layer with two programs and uh this is a matter of um degrees and good better best where we're trying to look at how to best help those traditional students currently in that Morningside area and balancing that out with all of those concerns you just mentioned. >> Yeah. And and on the other hand, you know, is it is it fair to keep an entire traditional

162class that is not getting all the resources that we think that they could get so that um the ALC and DLI have the traditional program to lean on if they need it, you know? I mean, so uh one of the things that we've really um I I've appreciated that the pack has done is I mean, one of the things I've heard a lot from my neighbors, from my constituents, is that they really value their traditional schools and they've been very concerned about, you know, doing anything that's going to put their traditional schools in jeopardy. And so, one of the things that we've done is realize that um, you know, maybe these programs can be more successful on their own when they don't compete. with the traditional schools and we know the traditional programs are um

163more successful and so you know it it we're just kind of in a position where it's like well which is which is better and I I think we are getting at the um that it's it's not worth it to have a um a traditional program there when we can't meet our kids needs just so that you know in case this doesn't work for kids because it's very few kids. I mean, we only have a few families currently who have their kids in both the traditional program and the magnet and ALC or or I'm sorry, the ALC or the DLI. And we have those numbers. I just I'm like um you Steve, I don't want to quote them off the top of my head, but um anyway, I I think that's just an important issue for

164us to be going in with our eyes wide open. I also am concerned. Uh you guys already talked about it a little bit, but another thing that is kind of, you know, we need to go in with wise eyes wide open is the ALC support situation. I I really would love to figure out ways that we could maybe support our ALC staff more um if they are a magnet program there. and we have an incredible principal there who I think will be able to help um figure that out. But I think we need to acknowledge that we're that's a tricky situation. It's not straightforward and that those teachers will need support. Now they're very used to supporting each other. they are just a very tightly knitient team and um so I think that they will

165figure out how to support each other but anything that we can be any way that we can be thoughtful of the fact that they are there as singletons in this scenario um you know is could is important. Um I also just wanted to reiterate one of the things that we heard on um I can't remember when that was when we went to um Morningside was we heard from DI parents saying okay we are interested in hearing about this DI magnet program how would it look um can you help us understand what this looks like and they had very specific questions And um I would really like to make sure that we figure out how to get them the information that they need in order to make good decisions about whether they're going to continue with

166the DLI program because from what I'm looking from my standpoint I think it's going to be only better only only awesomer and especially if we were to keep the ALC program there some of the concerns that we had before about small school issues kind of um you know are helped by that. But I I would want to make sure that we could figure out how to answer those questions for them and give them a very clear picture as they make decisions um moving into the um the application process for um going out of their boundary. >> Right. I would add quickly, Julie, is that Gana and I, as I look across the room and see Gana, is that we talked about this this afternoon, and yes, I did commit to those parents after that meeting

167to meet and um we're trying to get a meeting scheduled for next week to in person go over um their questions and and uh some of the just give them more information. It's it's a great it's legitimate and and they they deserve as much information as we can give them and and we're trying to get that scheduled for next week. >> Well, >> oh that's great. >> I I had asked a comparable question clarifying earlier, but even in as much it's just a program at a location, it's it still will look like a traditional school in every sense of the word. They'll have a principal, they'll have a staff, they'll have a custodian, they're going to have lunch, um a bell schedule. Um and and the idea is that now it's a a school focused

168on the French DLI magnet program and uh and ALC and meeting those students needs, not trying to run three different schools, >> right? But if we could put together a PDF for them that answers some of those logistical questions um and and is pretty transparent and honest, you know, which I think we will be anyway, but um I think that um that would be helpful because uh I I think there are a lot of parents asking the question who um who need to hear the answers in an email and maybe an email from the principal, but we can we can talk more about that or I I I trust that you guys can get that together. I just wanted to make sure I I think that's important for parents to have that kind of education

169and we've begun to give that tonight. I I really appreciated the vision that you guys were sharing about what could happen with um a combined Eastwood and Oakidge. Um and I think those are the kinds of visions that you know people are looking for. you know what are are you going to have um I I was especially struck by the question are you going to have special um supports that make sure that our kids you know don't fail in DLI and then they need to go to a different school you know I mean now those stakes are a little higher when you take the traditional program and these are things people are worried about and while we know those answers they need to be spelled out for those parents, you know. Um, my last issue

170is I just want to make sure and say that I'm I still am very um torn about the boundary at Driggs and um I wish I could figure out a better way to um balance out the population at Driggs and Cottonwood as well as um trying to make sure that we keep neighborhoods together which is a really high priority. Um, I guess I just wanted to say that. That's >> Thank you. >> Okay. And by the way, um, I I just want to say again, thank you because every time that we get together, I feel like there's more information for us and that you guys have gone out like our patrons have asked a lot of questions and you guys have gone out and found the answers and I really appreciate that work. So, thank

171you. >> Thanks, Julie. Um, I just have a couple hopefully real quick. First of all, I want I love the idea of emerge and I've asked about that a couple different times in a couple different ways. So, I'm interested. I think that is a it's it's an easier way to look at this and I would hope that especially those teachers at Eastwood um are brought over because I know how valuable they are to that community. I also looking at this, you know, the FCI score for both Eastwood and Oakidge. I know this is a future board decision. And it's not a decision we can make now, but I would hope that we would also I'm just going to put this out there and say it in public comment that I would hope that we would

172look at that and if it came time to make that decision that it would be something that we could look at and say, you know, it makes sense to rebuild Eastwood and move the student body over there as opposed to just rebuilding at Oakidge or or find a find some sort of a a solution here that works well for the community because that's part of the reason why I know we we did this with Sandberg and that that as Sandberg comes up that was something that was very important to us that we said you know what that's lower on the FCI so we want to keep that option open and I I would hope that we would keep that open as well that as as we get closer to Eastwood and in six or seven

173years that we could say okay we're to this point now where we could rebuild this building where is the best place to build it and maybe it isn't where Oakidge is Maybe it's not where Eastwood is either. Maybe it's something else, but I don't know that I I would hope that we would keep that open. Um because I think that is both of those buildings are very valuable to the community. Um and and it's important space for the community to have and I think it's important that we consider that as as we get down the road a little ways. >> Sure. Um, having said that, um, I know a big concern and and I agree this is something a lot of people have pointed out. This is not going to solve all of our problems.

174This is not a comprehensive thing that's going to solve all our problems. However, um, I I share this concern. Are we going to be returning back here in two or three years? Are is this something that you feel like will solve our problems well enough that we can that we can manage this that we can continue on this path and hopefully um as far as our Davis demographics data is are we projected that we're going to continue to drop and continue to drop and continue to drop or is this going to kind of help even us out here? >> Right. Well, we anticipate that it'll even us out. Um I I wish we could tell the future exactly and we know what Davis demographics numbers are. We've shared that that's that's those are in our

175presentations. We also know that some of these schools or most of these schools in this area are some of the best of drawing students from outside of the district and from other areas um which which are a good thing. But um um I I've said this many many meetings in in the quote perfect world, we we divide up all these numbers and close the right number of schools that we get every school to three teachers a grade level or in that 5 to 550 range. Um, but there's there's the other side of that pancake as Karen said too. You know, when you do that, you change walking routes, you change other patterns that are also a downside. So, we try to balance that out with closing the right number of schools and not having too

176many other downsides to everything else. And so, um, um, we we feel good, really good about this solution, especially, um, with our programs going forward and having room to add more. And I think we know now better than ever that with our marketing team that um, we're seeing success at doing this. we're seeing success have been more creative just just even to have this ability to have the gold status come and be merged in one place and when we've heard for so long that we can't do it now yes we can there there ways and we're always trying to be creative so we're going to have to continue to do that we know we're in a competitive market public education does not have a monopoly anymore we know that um and and we're going to

177have to work hard to do it but I believe this community and and the district is up to that challenge. >> Thank you. Um, we've talked I know another question and I I mean I can relate anecdotally about the closure in my area. It was a two-year study, the the Bangar Highway um study that we went through and and the elementary there. And I I still had the same questions that from my constituency, we'll slow down. We're we're going too fast. And that was two years that we spent on there. Um, and I think there are I just want to mention there are some detriments to waiting at this point that would put people more in limbo and feel like they don't know what to do or where to go and it can be detrimental

178to an area. Do you feel like I just want to know does the pack feel like they have had adequate time to study this? Is there additional information that we're not seeing that that they feel like we need to hear as we're getting community feedback? What is your thoughts on that? >> Right. Speaking for the pack, yes, I feel like we've had adequate time. Is there always something else that could be studied? Sure, there is. And and if we go another year, could could we come up with other um issues perhaps? Um but but I think the main issues will remain the same. We also know at the same time there are the detrimental effects of pausing or extending a study. We've seen that multiple times in a couple of situations like you mentioned where

179we lose staff. Um we're we're already seeing that at a couple of our schools where they anticipate a change and and staff and students are are leaving and and that gets worse the longer we go. So I don't know if there's a perfect time frame. In fact, I'll tell you that our as I talk to other people again around the country, granted district's process is is now longer than most. There are many many districts out there that do this entire process in in 3 to 6 months. And um and there's there's some rationale for that for sure. So, um I think we could have a 5-year study and would we have something to study for 5 years? Probably. >> Thank you. Um and I I wanted to say thank you. I I approached Steve a

180couple weeks ago and asked about the gold stem status and if he could check on that if that was transferable. So, I appreciate you following up on that and and making sure that that was something that we could transfer because I think that is something that is important to that Eastwood community and I it should be that's very that's something to be absolutely proud about and and those teachers have worked hard to achieve that. >> Ju just one more public kudo to that STEM action center. They were so accommodating and once they understood the details they thought let's see if we can make this work. And when I got that email back today confirming that uh yes indeed um immediately reached out to superintendent and a few others saying you know this this is great

181assuming this is the contingent upon that happening that that change being made. It's that's a big deal. >> Could I speak to your question earlier about uh whether this is sufficient or we're going to need to kind of come back here to this area? I hope we never have to do this again. Um I think we all share that sentiment. And I don't think anybody's enjoying this process by any stretch of the imagination. I I think there is I I just want to be open and transparent. If you've reviewed the MGT data, there are some schools that will continue to see some projected declines. And so what I like about this current proposal is it kind of taps the brakes on certain portions of this to allow us to see what the impact of of

182this will be. and then we can make some it leaves our options open down the road uh to enhance some other other schools perhaps down the road. So, I I I don't want to say that this is going to be a one-sizefits-all. It fixes everything because at some point, as Steve pointed out, um our schools are we're never going to we were at the call the Morningside DI meeting. I'm trying to keep all my meetings straight and it was pointed out that we were not meeting any of our objectives as stated um in in our policy and our process. And I pointed out that the only way to 100% get there is to close more schools and that would not be in the best interest of kids. I could never with with good faith have

183that recommendation be brought to this board knowing that that would be detrimental uh uh to those communities and to those families. So, we do the best we can. Um uh but at some point in time we're going to be in this circumstance in some other places where the cut is too deep and it will then have a negative impact on the the community as a whole. And so we just we do need to look and see. Um there's there's two school communities long-term that I have concerns about. If you've read that MG MGT report, I think it's 148 pages. Um, but I spoke with some parents just the other day who had read that data and they pointed that out to me and I'm like, I'm so glad you read that report. So, thank >>

184besides us read it. >> Um, and there there continues to be good solutions proposed long term and I think this recommendation is probably our best shot uh getting us where we hope to be uh stable long term. Um, will it be perfect? It remains to be seen, but uh it I think there's not any other options that will get us there any better, I guess, is the way to say that. >> I'd like to add to that though that um one thing we have done this year that we have not been able to make happen in past years is that we have lowered class size. And that has a significant impact on these school closures because what we would like to do is continue to have very small schools where you could still have three

185teachers per grade. Um, but there were 20 kids in a class instead of having a you know a a the higher class size that you know we can't we can't afford a lower class size. And so, um, you know, pushing, that's another thing that we can do is continue to push that 24 to one that we paid for this year or that taxpayers paid for this year. Continue to push that, you know, grade by grade if possible. Um, that's another way that we can impact that. And as we look at this, you can say, yes, at the beginning of the year, the goal was to get to about 500 kids because that was three teachers per grade, but now three teachers per grade is is 460. So, it's we're not meeting Yeah, we are not

186meeting the 500, but the goal shifted because of other things that we did. >> Thank you. >> I just want to say I think those are all good points. I I think we're in a situation where there are multiple uh prongs to reconcile here, if you will. I I agree with Kim's comment that it's hard to reconcile uh closing or merging two schools that are performing well. It's equally hard to reconcile. Do we take action now or do we wait a couple more years or three more years? I don't know what that number of years is ideally because of what the MGT report predicts. um they may be incorrect or they may be spot on or they may be somewhere in between. So when is the right time to take action and I haven't been

187able to reconcile that one way or the other myself just yet. >> Thank you. Any other comments or questions? >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, we have scheduled next on our on our agenda the master board training. Um, I'm going to suggest if there's no objection to move the executive session for the purpose of litigation up to next and then uh board members are welcome to either stay and do a master board training together or you're welcome to also leave and do it on your own. >> No objection. >> So with no objection, I will entertain a motion to move into executive session. So moved. >> I'll second. >> I thought that was incumbent in my So moving. >> So moved is technically not >> litigation. I understood it was for litigation.

188>> I said litigation, but >> okay. >> I move that we transition into executive session for purposes of litigation. Thank you, Karen. I'll second. >> All right, we have a motion and a second to move to executive session for the purpose of litigation. This is a roll call vote. Please state your name and your vote. Kim, let's start with you. >> Kim Chandler, yes. >> Julie Jackson, yes. >> Clark Nelson, yes. >> Karen Wonder, yes. >> Chris W, yes. >> Connie Burgess, yes. >> Nicole McDermott, yes. All right.