4/21/2026 - FCPS Governance Committee Meeting

001Okay, board members. I'd like to get us started. We have a lot of important things today. We have quorum. Board members, can you please take your seats? Well, let's go ahead and um perhaps we can get a review of the minutes. So, this meeting is called to order at 4:02 p.m. Uh the meeting of the Fairfax County School Board Governance Committee will now come to order. So, we'll vote on the approval of the minutes of the April 14th, 2026 committee meeting, which was just last week. Um do I have a motion to approve the minutes? Um Is there Is there a motion to approve the minutes? Okay. I move. Thank you, Mr. Frisch. Is there a second? Miss Lady, any discussion? No discussion? Okay. Um all those in favor of approving the motions. We have

002the three of us in the room, uh Lady, Frisch, and Marron. I really uh want us to even though we have a lot to cover today, I was hoping everyone could be in the room on time. We've approved the motions. So, um we have a lot to dig in. So, here's what I'm thinking. This is hard work, the calendar. Right? Um it's hard work because we respect our teachers. We respect our families, our students. We want to respect the diversity in our community. We want to value everyone's time and participation. So, before we dig in, I thought it would be useful if we could just for a minute each, focus on why. Why are you do you think this is important to do? What is driving you to make updates on this calendar policy? And

003I could start with mine, if it gives some people time to to think. Um My why is that I want stability for everyone involved in this school system to know what's coming at them. And I do think that 5 days of instruction is what's best for kids. And I want to be sure our teachers have the time they need to be the professionals they want to be and our kids need them to be. So, I really want to get to a place where there's stability and respect for time. And we could just let the calendar go and we know that it's going to be stable. So, that's my why for doing this. Would anyone else want to share their why? Mr. Frisch. I would echo uh those sentiments. I think we will likely all echo

004each other's sentiments, but uh in addition to that, I would say that um uh my approach to the calendar since we first had various color calendars to consider a couple years ago, has been a want for two things. One, increasing the number of 5-day instructional weeks, and two, um uh providing uh operational uh continuity for employees who may live in other counties. Um uh and uh uh and to ensure that we continue recognizing um the uh observances that we have on the calendar. Um I also think that this is a good opportunity to revisit some questions around what O days are. Um uh I like the idea of the board um having an annual process here for um adding to the 3-year cycle. Um so, that's something I've come around on in terms of the

005board's role. Um uh so, I think a clear policy that kind of drives that work uh will make it easier for everybody, parents, students, educators, staff, superintendent and her team, and the board generally. Thanks, Mr. Frisch. Dr. Anderson. Um thank you. I I think I I think at the core of it, uh much of what you said is what drives is what drives me as well in terms of having consistency with our families. Um I also want to bring in my lens as a former teacher. One of the things that I always had to do, and I don't think it's too different here in Fairfax County, um I always had a summer job as a teacher because it just you couldn't sustain with, you know, whatever that contract was, you know, back in those days.

006And so, having the opportunity to earn a second revenue is also important and having the time to do that. Um I I do want to put it on the table a couple of questions and wonderings I've had since we've been doing this. Much of this I've asked um which is in terms of um in terms of highlighting religious holidays, I do feel we've gotten into a place where we've we've offered some value to to the different religions because there are way more than the nine that we have on our calendar. Um even as recently as 2 weeks ago, I had students from um one of the high schools that I represent saying, "My religion is not anywhere." It's not a student holiday, it's not an O day, it's nowhere. And so, I think that's one

007of the pieces that's always been a wondering, and I I ask I've asked this over the years as we've approved calendars, and I know Mr. Foster has advised that there has to be a secular reason for that kind of um observation. It There has to be some operational impact, and honestly, I think we've strayed from that a little bit. Um and when it comes to the surrounding jurisdictions, it would be great if we could all just link up and sync up and have it be great. I I think that'll be fantastic. I just don't think it's reasonable or feasible um because there are different priorities in each of these divisions. Um I also know that other divisions have student holidays where we have school. And I don't mean like the holidays like the Diwali and

008Eid, etc. I just mean they just have maybe it's a teacher work day and kids are home, and their parents are expected to work. We still fall into that same place all of the time, and not to be um disingenuous, but I also think that we also have a whole population of parents who work in other places whose calendars we don't work around. Their work calendar does not make it into our um calculus. It It This is not easy. This is not challenging. This is definitely a zero sum as you can get. You cannot have all of the things. But I look for some data-driven decisions to be made. Thank you, Dr. Anderson. Ms. Lady? Thank you. Um So, I wrote down a lot of things. Um I was, as I've shared before, an employee

009when the calendar came out the first time with the O days and the additional days off. Um and we were excited that we were going to start school 2 weeks before Labor Day, but we expected to end school maybe Memorial Day. And that never happened. Um we just lost 2 weeks of summer and too much momentum of instruction. So, um it's a bit of a conundrum because uh we are such a diverse community and um when I look at the days that we have off, um I think if I count correctly, they're like six that are religious, cultural days, and then federal holidays. So, um I am not interested in adding additional. Um I just because we're trying to crunch something, we can't add more. Um I think that we have a a very different

010community than certainly when many of us were young with two parents working and now in an area where going into an office is becoming status quo again, that we have to be sensitive to our parents. Um I think if we prioritized working parents and faculty and staff, we'd have fewer days off and we'd have a we'd have a longer summer. Um but in honoring our diversity and uplifting that, then we're we have some religious holidays that I think I don't think we uh should even consider uh back away from. Um while I voted for Veterans Day to be a school day, I did that because that's what the policy currently reads, despite the fact that the redline version is ready for us to pass. just never came to us. So, I went with what is

011currently policy. But I personally think Veterans Day should be a day off um in the long run. I also, obviously, like everyone else, want more 5-day weeks. Uh I want a 3-year calendar approved. Um I actually want five snow days built in, not 10. Um I think that we for years have worked longer than we had to because of that. Um and I might be getting into too many details, but um I and and I think we have to keep in mind the operational impact of our decisions. And um I may be asking some questions later related to that, but as uh my colleague mentioned, you know, when the one year we moved spring break off of where every other system had it, we had a huge problem of absenteeism or people bringing their children

012to school to teach because their kids all had a different break. Um so, in a dream world, whatever we did, everyone around us would follow. Um but I'm not sure that's going to happen. So, I look forward to more of the conversation. Okay. Yeah, and you know, keeping it at that like vision like what's the biggest thing? Is it the employee? Is it the uh cultural diversity? Like, Ms. Lady, are you able to just like a little bit more sort of put a pin in it? Like, what's the why driving you for reviewing the calendar? Well, I'm doing the calendar cuz it got brought to governance. So, I mean, that's the why. I I I didn't I didn't coming into this year, I didn't think we would be doing this, but I'm happy to engage

013in it. So, I don't guess I really have a why because it I feel like it I'm reacting to the fact that it's become part of the work of the governance committee and I'm leaning into it the best I can. Thank you. And Ms. Jean Cunningham? Um so, I'm going to echo a lot of the comments that were made here. Um I think our consideration for our students and our staff are critical and the respect respect for holidays. Um A holy day is a holy day regardless of what religion you're at. And when you operationalize that, um sometimes because of the diversity of our population, not only does it impact our students, it impacts our staffing, it impacts having enough bus drivers, it impacts having to have a lot of subs on a certain day.

014So, I appreciate that we have taken on giving holidays for populations that represent a large percentage that are holidays um of some of our that are large diverse communities that those holy days are critical. Um I do want to say that there are competing priorities. I think that sometimes when we talk about a longer summer, a lot of people talk about um well, parents have to take care of their kids. In the communities that I work for, they want shorter summers because they can't send their kids to summer camp. They can't send them to a week camp. They can't afford any of that. So, they actually want shorter summers and then we have people saying I want longer summers. And so, we have not only competing diversity in terms of religious holidays, but also socioeconomic.

015Um and I think that we have to take that into consideration when we look at these calendars. Um In a perfect world, if we had the money and we had the staffing, because I do know a lot of teachers that do have to have that summer job or that do after school. I knew knew several teachers that worked at Aldi's after school or that worked at Barnes & Noble. Uh in a perfect world, if we had the money and the staffing, those teachers would prefer to be doing after school care. And when we talk about calendar creep, I think that the most important thing that we have to look at is also the creep of what has happened in terms of the responsibilities our schools have to face. Our schools were designed to become to

016be academic centers, not daycare centers. And because of things that are bigger than ours, because there was a time when a single family income, a single person income could support a family versus dual income, things have shifted and things consistently get put on the schools. Schools didn't have to provide so much food for so many kids before. It's now the responsibility of the schools. I have to say that where I've worked and the families I've worked with, and I've worked primarily primarily in title one schools, the teachers have been outstanding to step up to the plate, but they come to a breaking point. There's only so much they can do. And the reality is that this expectation of schools are going to be daycare providers is a creep that has come into our schools. If

017we had the funding for it, teachers would prefer to be paid to stay. So, it's just competing priorities and it's not easy. I heard lots of agreement around competing priorities, not easy. Um I mean, I think it's clear we all want to do what's best, you know, to the extent we can. So, I did send around some questions to help us because, you know, we set a timeline um at the April 9th board meeting to ask to have the superintendent bring calendars so we could vote on them by July 9th. And I did print out some calendars just to actually see it and they're just regular calendars, so it's nothing super special about them. But if you wouldn't mind taking a copy just because to really see that, you know, April July 9th and if

018we start to back map it, well, but [clears throat] it has but but you know, what what this has though is the dates of all of our meetings so that we can see what opportunities we have to um to do the work. And I think even knowing that the work session is coming up on May 5th, we could get pretty far today, far enough to bring it to the work session so that we can get it onto the agenda so the public can see it and get the policy done so the superintendent can meet that deadline that we gave her. Thanks, Ms. Lady. And it's just a monthly calendar with the meeting dates on it. So, these are some questions I put out for discussion. Um one is, you know, what do you most want

019this updated policy to clarify? Could we each say, you know, what are your priorities of the components, such as prioritizing 5-day weeks, how cultural holidays will be determined, clarifying who authorizes calendar adoption. Um you know, what would you most want? Can you rank, you know, your top three or your top five that you would want to see this policy reflect? Perhaps we can get into some alignment there. Anybody wants to start there? Dr. Anderson? Okay. Hopefully I remember Hopefully I remember what you have shared. Um in terms of And just like, can we get to like some specifics? Like, just without explanation of why? Like, you know, is it 5 days? Is it cultural observances? Is it a longer summer? Okay. >> Yeah, that would be helpful. Thank you. >> earlier release days. I'm trying

020to go through some of that as much as I can. Um the one that stands to mind for me in terms of who's responsible for the calendar, it's the board. I think we've talked about that a lot my while I may while there may be some different interpretations, um I I'd like for us to publicly adopt the calendar because that's when it becomes real to the public. When the work just kind of happens in the background, there's no public communication. That's when we articulate to them. So, that's one. As many 5-day weeks as possible for me, that is the priority. Um and to be strategic about placing the staff professional development days where they're going to do the most good. I am not in favor of what I think we've heard, put all their PD

021days at the beginning of the year or at the end of the year. We need to have some time throughout the year for the professional development and I also know we need to have some time throughout the year for the um teacher work days for them to handle report cards and such and such so that it doesn't have to be an activity that they take care of at home. But to be as strategic as possible so that we have as much intact quarters as possible. I'd also like to see more evenly distributed quarters. We have some that are 40 Looking just this morning at some of the calendars, some are 42 days, some are 49 days, some have five full day weeks, some have eight full day eight full weeks. Um not for Yeah, eight

022full weeks and versus five. Just a little bit more consistency there, especially with the quarters in which we know that there's a lot more going on. First quarter tends to have a lot of um diagnostic work happening so and building community, etc. So for me, it would even make sense for that quarter to be the longer quarter of the year because of all those things to happen. Um I am not a fan of making decisions about the holidays because I feel as if it is hard to do some and not all because everybody's holiday matters quite a bit and you all know when we were doing this calendar a few years ago, well, you and Carl, I kept asking, "Where's Ash Wednesday?" That's a very very important day to to me and mine. But I

023don't want to get to that space where we're parsing out which one is more valuable. We need to give space for everybody to go do the thing that they need to do on that day. Thank you. So others with, you know, your top three or five really want to get it addressed in the policy here. I could share mine if no one's ready just yet. So I definitely think identifying that five-day school weeks is the number one driver in the calendar policy. Um I could be okay with setting an absolute number or percent, but I know that there's got to be some flexibility. But I do think that that has got to override all the other things. It's got to be five days of school because even if our teachers have the most amazing professional

024development, if the kids are dysregulated because they've had a mishmash of weeks, when they return to the classrooms, those teachers are not going to be able to use that good PD because they're going to have to work with erratic student behavior, especially for the little ones. So five-day weeks a five-day um school weeks is really my priority. The second one, as was mentioned, is being clear on what the school board's role is and I by and large want to leave the nitty-gritty to the superintendent. I'd like the superintendent to disc- to figure out cultural holidays and observances. I'd like her to appropriately manage the professional development days. Um that is all operational and five days a week, if that's what we want, everything else is just the minutia that the superintendent needs to figure out.

025The third um Well, actually those those were it. Um Yep. Those were my big ones. So five-day school weeks, clarity on roles with the superintendent setting, excuse me, the school board setting the policy here and the superintendent rolling it out. Uh Mr. Frisch and then this lady. Thank you. Um to touch on those but I'll start with the approval process, as it were. I think I like the idea of a annual process where in July the superintendent brings the third year out calendar to add on to the end. So I like that and the board can vote on that um in line with the other things that we vote on in July that kind of kick off the the beginning of the calendar year. And you know, I didn't start there in terms of my

026thinking because I do think like you said, there's a lot of operational work that goes into the calendar. Um but um I think that this that potentially sets up a very clear process that the public can come to understand is just the way that this works. Um and hopefully future school boards keep it going and then it just becomes tradition as much as it is policy. On the question of uh five-day school weeks, I agree. Um that said, how we phrase that priority, I think is extremely important because if we say nothing other than that is the top priority, the superintendent and we can say we're leaving all the other questions up for the superintendent to consider operationally, but no, we've said what the priority is and she will bring back a calendar that removes

027everything because we've said this is the priority. Um without giving, let's say, uh a uh something that says something like, you know, five-day school weeks uh are to be the priority in conjunction with a balanced look at X, Y, and Z. Um uh I'd be much more comfortable with that approach because it does actually give the superintendent more flexibility while stating what our top priority is, that there are other things that have to be considered as well. Teacher planning is one of those things, right? These are all the things that we've talked about for time. So again, I think that goes more into operationalizing into the operations piece of it, but I also thinks I also thinks it goes into the narrative that our parents need to hear because I don't think that they understand

028that what's important is that instructional time. Um I do think that obviously in a perfect world, those five-day school school weeks would be perfect, but that doesn't negate the the the fact that sometimes when we don't have five-day school weeks, our kids are still getting extra instructional time as opposed to other jurisdictions. And I just don't want us to lose sight of that because at the end of the day, that's what matters. Um so I just wanted to to make that point because I found that to be very interesting when when I learned that last time. Okay, so what I heard is that Oh, sorry. This lady. Oh, sorry, did you not speak at all yet? My apologies. Go ahead. Um so in terms of priorities, I'm just making some notes here and I'm mostly

029looking at the calendar right now that's sort of posted for 27-28. Um by the way, the quarters are very balanced, 44, 45, 44, 42. Um you know, one could argue that fourth quarter should be longer because so much of it is lost in testing. Um but I'm not I'm fine with it as it is. But um one of the big things for me is the O days. I want to change the criteria for an O day. I want new instruction allowed and I want assessments allowed. You want new instructions and assessments. >> When you look at some of these, like if you look at January, when there are four Well, I'm looking at 2028 of January with four O days in the month and three days off, that's a of limiting teaching. And while I

030understand there are reasons that students are out um and miss assessments. Um I definitely we need to allow for new instruction. I I I'm willing to have a dialogue around whether or not they And I wouldn't say a major test, but like a smaller like a quiz or whatever. Um I I'm you know, I just think that the O days are very were very crippling to teachers trying to plan. Um so that's a big thing for me. Um I do want like I said before a calendar that's um three voted on 3 years out. Um you know, when I look at some of these calendars and and see um like the the 27-28 only has one teacher work day at the end of the year, but next year's has a teacher work day and a

031school planning day. I'm like I I And the school planning day is a Monday. I'm like that's that's got that needs to go have been needs to be front loaded in my opinion. Um So actually I think that what people also need understand is that this was like the perfect storm year because of when things fell. >> [clears throat and cough] >> And I think it's unfortunate we had snow created at the same time we had election problems. Uh and we had 12 early release days. So I don't think the calendar is is the is the problem that some people are making it out to be cuz when I look at 26-27 um there's seven teacher work days where this year we had 11 because we had to turn all these other days into teacher

032work days cuz we weren't given teachers the day off. Um it looks like 27-8 there might be eight days and then seven teacher work days in 28-29. That's not too high when we talk about percentages of 5-day weeks. You know, next year's calendar is about 67-68% 5-day weeks and then it's it's similar up to 69% in 28-29 the way it's written. I'm not interested in nailing down a hard percentage because I that's not fair to the superintendent. I'm not going to put it on the superintendent to determine which day she's going to take away. I'm not going to do that. We have to own that as a board. Um And so I see my time about to be up. That's some of my priorities. Yeah, thank you. So So what I I heard I'm going

033to just try and make some meeting and get us towards alignment, okay? So what I hear is alignment towards getting to 5-day school school weeks as much as possible within reason and planning for them as much as possible. So um of course we're going to have you know, odd random events happen, but wanting to get to 5-day school day 5-week school days, but not to the expense of everything else. So like Mr. Frisch said saying well also considering you know, whether it's the holidays or something else. I mean, I'm looking at the calendar that stands for now for next year. And like we have an early release on October 30th for the end of the quarter. And then November 1st and 2nd are a holiday. I know many parents would prefer that their kid be

034in school all day on Friday the 30th and maybe even get an extra day off on Wednesday, November 3rd because that early release day is what just really makes it hard for regulating kids and for parents' schedules. Um you know, and then the same thing happens at the end of quarter two. We've got a quarter early release on Thursday, January 28th. Teacher work day the following Monday is a student holiday. So now we've just So like I could see writing in the policy 5 days is the the priority. You know, so be looking for things like not having two weeks of spliced up weeks, right? I agree with what Ms. Lady said. I'm I'm not in favor of setting some minimum threshold a number or a percentage. And I well someone suggested fourth quarter might

035be the longer quarter. Well, I think maybe first quarter could be in some cases. Like let's get them in and and then you've got these fall holidays that kind of we can't control Labor Day and um you know, Indigenous Peoples' Day. So I think what I'm hearing is um this this group of five of us we're Well, I don't know. Doesn't seem like there's interest for a minimum threshold. Would that be correct? Is anyone interested in setting a number in the policy for the minimum threshold? Mr. Frisch. We've only just begun to try. Okay, and apologies Dr. Anderson, you had your placard up. I was just trying to make some meaning though and get to some consensus. So that But if you could comment on that Dr. Anderson, that would be helpful. Oh, no. I

036actually had mine up to comment on something else that I didn't add as one of my priorities that I wanted to just sneak in there. >> please? Um yeah. Um The calendar impacts, you know, our kids. It impacts our students. It impacts our teachers. I also think that we have to be intentional about getting feedback from those groups. Um we have not been as um diligent about doing that in the last couple of years and that has to be part of our regular practice, part of our regular cadence. I don't think it has to be a yearly activity. But there has to be a after a couple of years, let's stop and take stock and get some feedback and to determine how is that going to impact continuing calendars. Um I also think what we

037ask could be better refined because we cannot have all of the things. So we are also looking for our community to prioritize and um and determine what would be most optimal. Um so I want to say that. Um In terms of a number of 5-day school days >> You know what? I I have not given that a lot of thought in terms of numbers. I just know we need more than what we have right now. What we have right now is not working. Um In the same way that we often say that staff after a long day of work they're not able to come and sit at the table and be available for PD. They're worn out. They've had it. It's been a long day. It's similar with our kids. You know, by the time

038you get to 3:00, 3:30 for some of our kids in elementary schools that go into 4:20, they're done. So it's not the hours in the day per se that's going to give them the most optimal time to learn. So I I don't want to say just because we have long days they're all good times for learning. I saw placards go up when Dr. Anderson mentioned community input. So definitely want to talk about that, but I also want to go back to um the early release. Can we and when you speak, please, can we get to you know, we voted for eight early release days. Do we want to codify that in the policy? Currently it says four early release in the guidelines as well as ensuring that they're published on the calendar. That was a

039big thing for parents. So I guess if this question is kind of twofold if you comment, right? What are your thoughts on community engagement? Some people have talked about a committee, um community engagement piece. And then what do you think about early release days, putting in the policy, putting them on the actual calendars? Um Mr. Frisch and then Ms. Uh St. John Cunning and then Ms. Lady. Uh first community engagement. I firmly believe that we can't do a survey every year because we're just asking people to share things over and over again that we may not ever be able to deliver on, right? And so but I do think that a survey every two or three years um can be instructive of both A what are there changes in community approach, but it's also an

040opportunity for us to message to the community on things that may have improved since the last survey uh or um uh or things like that. Um I do think that if we do a survey like this on something like this I'll just have a big frown at the day as if you know my wonderful colleagues presented as the community says this or the community says that because it's really just the community until we weigh these things scientifically. It is just the members of the community who were moved enough to participate in the survey and we all know that broad swaths of the community never fill out the survey and their views are not captured there. Uh certainly not in the same volume as maybe other parts of the community. And so proper weighting and balancing

041of the responses is more instructive for me. Not to say that the you know, let's say we get 30,000 families to fill it out. I think that's very informative. Particularly if we have information by region or pyramid or what have you. But it's still not instructive because it's really a matter of who is most motivated. And people are always most motivated when they want to change something. Um I'm rem- reminded of COVID and um the volume of email that we got uh when people wanted schools reopened. And then when we started moving with the plan to reopen, it wasn't until then that we started getting the volume of email email from people saying we want the schools to be closed. And so we have to be mindful of that. One way around that is to

042just measure the results accurately with a scientific approach. Remind me the second part of your question. >> About early release. >> Oh yeah, yeah. Um >> eight. >> [clears throat] >> I generally am in favor of codify codifying it. Um but I do want something in there that provides for an operational um adjustment notified to the board, perhaps. Uh if there's some kind of a If let's say for example that a governor signs a bill we shouldn't have to change our policy for the calendar to be reflected accordingly. Additionally, teachers shouldn't have to give up their planning time necessarily for something that may impact that. So, I think that the starting point is yes, let's codify the eight, let's put it in the calendar, um but give the superintendent an opportunity if it needs adjusting

043and informing the board. Now, if the board rejects that, you know, they they can take action to say no, we don't want to do that, but we should at least give the superintendent an opportunity if something needs to happen. Thank you. Ms. St. John Cunning then Ms. Lady and then or Dr. Did you want to respond to that, Dr. Reed? I did. Thank you, Ms. Merryn. I just I want to um just be thoughtful about reminding the board because I think this is good all these numbers and different years, I know it can be confusing, but the four early release days were intended to be at the end of quarters for elementary, middle, and high school teachers to do report cards. So, it's a grading purpose, which is different than the elementary planning, which is

044the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth early release that was voted on on the dais. So, I I want to make sure that um that if we're going to be changing the intent of the four early release division-wide days for grading, which I don't think we should, those are the end of the quarters and all staff need that time to be thoughtful, right, grading. That leaves four elementary planning early release days to situate. So, I I want to kind of separate this eight cuz it really I don't think the intent was to vote for four more days for middle and high school. I think it was really just the four division-wide grading early release and then limiting the elementary planning early release to four rather than eight. So, I just want to clarify that. It would

045be good to codify it in the policy because it's not currently in any policy. It says the motion was I move to direct the superintendent to schedule no more than eight early release days for elementary school students per year. That was the main motion. But I don't I cuz I don't want to get so bogged down in this cuz I want us to keep trying to get to alignment on some core topics. I think we need clarity on that. So, Ms. St. John Cunning about community and early release. So, I mean, early release, I mean, the board did vote on those eight and then what our policy says now is only four. So, we are going to have to get down in the weeds and codify it. But, here's here's what I wanted to say.

046First of all, I I I'd had a note about community engagement and staff engagement because those are the people that are there that are doing the work, and I think we need to get their feedback. I do agree with my colleague that I think some of this might be reactive to the fact that this was a perfect storm and that there may not be a lot of the issues that came up this this time around, and so there is a reactivity to that. I I think that the new calendars show that. In terms of um early release, I agree with my colleague that something may come up that may require some extra early release dates that is out of our control. Um and I think at in terms of percentages, I actually don't believe that

047we should start talking about numbers and percentages because we're going to put ourselves in a box where there are so many unpredictables as what happened this year that then it's going to make it difficult for the superintendent, it's going to be difficult for us. I think that we have again policy, the overarching policy says this is what we're going to try to aim for, this is what we want to do, recognizing as this year no pre early elections, the way the holidays fell, it was just an unusually perfect storm, which we don't see in the upcoming calendars. And we don't know hopefully we don't have another pandemic or hopefully we don't have another crisis where we're going to have to be reactive. So, we have to have that mechanism for the for if we're going

048to codify certain things to say with the ability for movement here with that flexibility. Thank you. Ms. Lady. Thank you. Um you know, I agree with my colleague in terms of community engagement. It is very, very small numbers compared to the size of our uh school system. I mean, even what I'm receiving now on calendar is a blip on a radar screen of what constituency I serve. Um I'm hearing next to nothing. >> [snorts] >> Um And again, I'm going to reiterate it was a perfect storm. So, in terms of community engagement, I would agree if we're going to do it if every two to three years, but if we codify policy, it kind of drives it. I mean, I don't know what we're talking about in community engagement. Um cuz we're looks like we're

049doing that right now in the policy. In terms of early release, you know, I think in an ideal world, we only have the four, but I I also agree with my colleague that there needs to be an operational adjustment opportunity if something comes through the governor's office like, you know, the the science of reading and what we needed to do with benchmark, um and without having to come rewrite the policy, right? It would just be the superintendent would come to us and make a special ask that we would vote upon um if they're additional, but I I just I'm okay next year with the with the four additional. Um in an ideal world, we wouldn't need those after next year. We just would have the four and they would be the end of the quarter,

050and that would be codified in the policy. Um So, that's, you know, the other thing I think if I heard you right, Ms. Merryn, I think when you're talking about one of these that to make a 5-day week, you would you would shift the quarter ending a day earlier and put the days back-to-back. Right. In most instances, it looks like instead of it being a Friday early release day, it would then be So, the Monday, Tuesday is already off for kids. So, Wednesday. So, actually that whole day could be pre-teacher professional development day, thereby not needing as many early release days elsewhere. And then it's only one interrupted week and not one interrupted week with a little bit of early release Friday and the next interrupted week with only three days of school. And that

051could happen both at the end of the first quarter and the end of the >> I think that happens second quarter. >> In in most of them, um because I was going to argue that I thought you wanted to back it up and like end the quarter on a Wednesday and then have Thursday, Friday. >> Yeah. Either way, I mean, right now the quarter ends are positioned so that almost every quarter end is interrupts two full weeks. >> Right. But, what I was going to say is this. Like, I get your thinking, but I also I'm like the momentum of instruction for a 2 and 1/2-day week You're going to get more out of a 3 and 1/2-day week. So, >> the point being, these are the kind of decisions I think we need to

052say to the superintendent make these decisions, and I just heard more, you know, um confirmation of using these early release days when we're in this pan because of early release days in some ways. So, like I Well, okay. You know, we need the different thinking than just going to these early release days again now twice as much for families. >> I'm saying that my preference would be we just have the four early release days at the end of the quarter for grading and nothing else, right? But, I mean, I we have to wait and hear from the superintendent on that. So, you know, and again, I maybe I should ask that question, Dr. Reed. Do you see that in perpetuity we're going to continue to need additional early release days beyond next year for elementary?

053You know, it's a great question, Ms. [clears throat] Lady. I think what I've said both publicly and in conversations with community members and board members is we have two major curricular adoptions here and rigorous training required. One was for literacy, and we have math coming up depending on where we sit with budget topics. My my minimal hope is that we could get through our literacy uh extra development and training using the elementary early planning days and math using the elementary early planning days, and then I think we're if for as long as we're able to provide the contractually approved collaborative planning time um during the school day, then I think there's less of a need to continue the elementary early planning early release planning days. I also uh want to note that for the last

054couple years, we've had both the training needs as well as um with the educator shortage, we've brought on a number of new staff, particularly at elementary, that benefit from that collaborative time with more experienced staff. So, I think it's been really valuably used um across the school division. I know also that when we have when we've used those um elementary early release planning days uh in the past couple of years, we've had fewer substitutes available, so it doesn't require the need for teachers to be pulled out of the classroom as often during the school day, uh which then had substitutes in school instructing, and we really I think had a high um high desire to keep our, you know, world-class educators in front of our kids as often as possible, but I don't think the

055plan was ever intended to be in perpetuity, but to get us through minimally our literacy curriculum and our math curriculum. The hope was this year we could have done it with social studies prior to math in a year. But again, I think you know, our budget challenges have forced a bit of a change in plans. Thank you. So, I guess going back to the early release days, my priority would be that if we need them that we don't put them I mean, people may see this different ways, but if you put them on a week that already has a day off, then you're not losing a 5-day week in terms of the 5-day week priority. But I'd rather put them on a week that doesn't have any time off because it's not a lot of

056time and they're already getting the extra time. I mean, it's it's it's it's a hassle no matter where we where we put them for a parent. So. I got you. Thank you. Okay. So, I just want to be mindful of time. I don't know we have AI or instructional tech policy. I'd like to try and get us to a place where we can have a nice handoff from us to the May 5th work session discussion. So, I've been I've been tracking some things where there's alignment and some things that we could bring to our colleagues in the full work session to ask for their input. So, that's where I'm trying to to head us. And I just want to take the liberty, you know, to share. So, we started with this combination of policies to

057kick us off, but I know we've had another re-examination of the November 23 redline. And you know, I'm pretty much fine with that one, too. I mean, for the November 23rd, it combines a lot of the stuff that we're talking about. And you know, the I think the big question that remains in front of us, folks, is the cultural observances and the holidays. That's where I hear that we don't have alignment on that. So, if we were to queue this up for the May 5th work session what could we put in front of our colleagues? Is it the version that we've had up to this point? Or perhaps we shift to the version of the revamped, you know, November 23 Ms. Anderson has shared that around. I think that captures a lot of what we've

058been talking about. So, maybe this is the version that we then move forward. So, thanks for shifting gears. Dr. Anderson, can we shift to talk about the mechanics of how we move forward? So, Dr. Anderson, do you want to pick up from there? I'm Or do I I don't Mr. Frisch had his placard up and I just really want to get tactical into where we go from here because we have this work session. We got to keep getting to alignment if we want to actually produce something in time for the superintendent to use. So, I Are you You want to share? Okay. Sorry, I feel like I'm behind. >> I I know. Well, we just have I just, you know, we only have trying to keep us going. I I'll try to be quick here,

059try to hit all of the points and also try to answer the two questions that you've just talked about. Early release days, you know, I I do have a wondering because most of them, I'm just looking at the 26 27 calendar. Let's say for the first quarter, there's an early release day and then there's the two days after that the following week that are teacher work days. Um And I know at elementary, it looks very different because they have conferences on those two days, but not necessarily at middle high school. I also see another space. I think it's after the third quarter where there is a an early release days followed by two days of professional work. It's just making me question a little bit in terms of how helpful are those two hours that

060they're getting at the end of that day because we have two more days. The first quarter elementary, that's a very specific position but I I I'm wondering, are we better served by just not having early release days, but just having two days of professional work after? So, that's one wondering. Um The calendar has to be what the calendar has to be what the calendar is because parents put this on their fridge and that's what they work and live with. I know mine still lives on my fridge even to this day. It cannot be whatever the days are, whether they be high school or elementary school, and I know that makes it cumbersome if there's early release days, they must be on the calendar. The families should be able to look at this and to know

061exactly what to expect. I shouldn't have to consult a a secondary source to determine that that day's an early release days. So, I'm all for codifying all of the early release days for all of the levels on this and we could color code them, you know, till the cows come home in order to achieve that. And also want to clarify the early release days that the board voted upon at the last meeting those additional days are just for elementary. We're not adding more for middle and I that was the big piece of the conversation. And I'm really hoping, as Ms. Lady said, that those also go away. I these these this should not be in perpetuity. So, that's one. I am a big fan of compiling the policies into a robust document as much as

062possible. I don't think all of them lend themselves to, but a lot of them I think we could sunset. There were about four that really didn't say a lot, but they just needed a paragraph in a bigger policy. So, I'm definitely fine with that. Um I did review the draft that um that Ms. Um Anderson, why can't I remember that that last name? Like, really? >> [laughter] >> Why don't you go ahead and finish with this is critical and then we'll go to Mr. >> that that she said and by far and large, I think it's very similar and I think it has captured some of the things. I I do have some tweaks that I'd like to propose, but it doesn't have to be here because I think the larger pieces have been pulled

063from those other documents, the one that you had and those existing ones. What I don't want to have, per se and I I I've I'm been very consistent about this. I don't want to have a list of cultural holidays because I think we have strayed away from the guidance of we are not providing cultural holidays just to provide cultural holidays. It has to have, and this is not even my guidance, it's what our attorney said it must have some sort of operational impact that has to be articulated. And I think we've strayed away from that. Thank you. Mr. Frisch. Before I start since um couple of references and I want to reference it. Will Chair Anderson, do you mind if I ask? Go ahead, Mr. Frisch. Chair Anderson, can you speak to your approach on

064your draft and what you were hoping to focus the board's attention on? I think that what I was attempting to do in that we've heard a lot about the drafts that have been put forward in November of 2023. And then I know that Ms. Marion and the rest of the governance committee has spent a lot of time working on the draft that has been proposed for this year. And I was looking for the cross-sectionality between the two and I was looking at it first and here's the philosophy and here's the the general structure of how our calendar is going to work. And the second would be direct guidance to the superintendent, which in my opinion is what the purpose of the policy is for. And so, I was looking and it was really a merger

065of those two documents with very few changes that were my This again was my personal draft that I sent to the board just so that they would have my thinking on it. However, it was specific like is things that I've talked about already like making sure that Veterans Day is no day. And we're hearing a lot of feedback about that in the community And so, I there are a few things in there that were specific to my thought process on it, but otherwise it was literally just capturing the same information that was put in November of 2023 and this one and just actually merging the two documents into one. So, it's direct instruction. I will say personally that I am afraid of us going down a path where we're relying on the superintendent to have

066all of the information related to which cultural observances were were including as days off because I do think that they are specific and that we should be clear with the community as to which ones are included in the policy cuz I do think that takes some of the heat out of it. Thank you. Mr. Frisch, anything else? Yeah. Um speak to your overall question about what does the path look like? Um If we're going to pick one without a lot of editing, I would pick Ms. Anderson's, but um I would still advocate for language in the policy that indicates that 5 days is our priority but there are other factors that have to be weighed in in advancing that priority. The holidays, etc. Um teacher planning time, etc. I understood the 8-day question the same

067way that Dr. Anderson described. And you know, with potential new math resources coming and you know, other and history and social studies materials coming maybe it's a couple more years of that and then we can scale back, which would add to it. I'd love to, you know, and putting the superintendent on the spot now, but I'd love to get um an understanding of what is operationally better like to have two shorter weeks next to each other or to have a five and then three or a five and then two. Uh I've never taught. Um so I'd be interested in knowing what uh what is better. Um Uh so that would be my advocacy that we bring this forward. I'm sure people will have amendments um or things that they'd like to see further tweaked. And

068I've not checked this in this version, but I think any definition actually needs to be used in the policy itself. So um just as a rule. We can educate people other ways, um but uh each definition should be in the policy. Um I would advocate for including the list as written um in section four of that draft. Um Can you specify that, Mr. Fish? We're talking Yeah, what's student holidays and it's uh on page um four. Roman numeral five. Yeah. Okay. Um and you know I will say this. I doubt that when Christmas Eve and Christmas began as a student holiday that there was an operational question about it. And I think that it as tradition has continued and eventually those become operational questions, right? They become operational questions because people grow accustomed to having

069them off and therefore they take them off and they plan holidays around it or whatever. Um Uh for some families they've never had the opportunity for their um uh their focus to become an operational expectation even if it is impacting employees work when other school divisions have it off. Thank you. I I want to try and see if we could actually I think we might be able to tie up this part of the conversation. I know there's more to say, but we do have the work session. So what I'm hearing is can we get agreement? Would we like to put forward for the work session the version that Sandy Anderson brought and that will be what we use for discussion. Is Is there agreement? Can I just say that instead of section four, I'm sorry,

070five that says policy, can we just have that be requirement? >> yes, so I I do have a comment about it doesn't follow the format that we've been trying to get to. Um and so we would want to say responsibilities is what the the language that we used and I personally dislike the use of guidelines. But regardless do you think do you think that we could for Well, guys, we could keep talking about this or we could make some decisions and move forward. Is it good enough that we can talk about it on May 5th? And then can we identify I know there's some questions for the superintendent to come prepared for. So if we can articulate that, that's going to propel us. So are we in alignment? Can we show a show of hands?

071Are we okay with with swapping or we could bring both. We could we could present both to the to the board, but I am in favor of shifting over to this newer version. So without much more discussion, are we okay with that? Of moving it forward? Ms. Janney? Well, I I had my packet out because I did want to go into the fact that we were trying to, you know, at at the chair's request um what was important was a style guide that we haven't approved which and I I understand the timing and you know, all policies are supposed to follow that style guide and we haven't approved it. So we, you know, is that something we could bring to the board to approve as it is now or do we have to look at

072it so that we can move forward because that also distinguishes I think we talk around a lot about policy and regulation and the style guide has that there so that would prevent us from talking around and round about and I I agree with you and I was wondering that too, Ms. Janney. Can we just bring the that style guide work to the board? Do you want to do that on the May 5th as well or do we just want to put it on new business and it's so much better than what we have. So I'm happy >> defer to, yeah, the chair with the process. Okay. We'll just move it to new business. That would be amazing. Thank you. You did mention just a couple things that I wanted to talk about that you did

073ask a question about. No, with without I I don't know where we are now, but just as long as it's a I just want to keep us Okay, hold on a second. Okay, calendar first and then we will do style guide as a separate motion. Okay. What we wanted to talk about cuz you did bring it up was the O days and I do think that that's something that we have to revisit uh as one of my colleagues talked about like I can specifically speak to one O day that I don't think should be there. But I'm just saying that when you say when we bring this to the full board >> Yes, absolutely. So so I did flag for a few things for the work session. It sounds like community engagement is a piece

074for us to discuss. There's been some differences on that. Um the cultural holidays and observances, all of that seems to need further discussion. So that would be a big topic for the work session. And then also early release days making sure we're really clear on that. Those would be the three main topics that I would suggest. Dr. Anderson, you have quarter just the the quarter In the quarter with those early release days, right? I'm going to tell you working at a school that for the report card so that they need that >> would be let's talk about it at that work session for sure and go deep. Okay. I don't want to take time away. Okay, Dr. Anderson. Um the only question that I have and I couldn't find it um prior, number three, community

075engagement. It says feedback may be gathered through public surveys, community meetings, etc. How I'm reading this in terms may versus shall is the may is speaking to how the feedback can be gathered. It could use all of these modalities. However, I don't see anything here that says feedback shall be gathered. So if I may, that is one of those three topics I just outlined for the work session. Let's dig deep there. >> we do it here or >> going to do it in the work session. So if we can get consensus to move the new version forward to the work session, right? Cuz we're the governance committee, we can refer it forward to the work session and then already we've identified three aspects of the discussion. I think I'm one of the meeting managers, so

076um pardon me for that. So then Dr. Anderson, we get to talk about community engagement, Ms. Janney, we talk about early release and whatever else tickles our fancy and then we are rocking and rolling. So without objection, are we okay to send this new version forward? Yes, Dr. Anderson, are you cool? >> Way to go. So we'll rename it um Deputy Clerk Brown so that we we're trying to name our files more clearly so people know where we're headed. So that will be for the May 5th work session, the calendar policy for review at the May 5th work session. Way to go, folks. That was awesome. Oh, it's a Cinco de Mayo. Um not I said a cultural observance day, I'm not sure. Okay. >> [laughter] >> Okay. Um Ms. Marin. Yes. Do you want

077specific language in there about the three priorities, the cultural holidays, early release and community engagement to be in this consensus? >> no. I will just queue that up and seek feedback from everyone on what specifically we want to be sure we cover in addition to those. So that will just be the agenda setting work of the board. >> So can we take one second and look at this consensus and see if we agree to what is written up there, please? Yes. Uh I would add after 1344 in parentheses as once we're talking about cuz there's And it will have no red lines. We will just have a nice black font easy to read. Okay. Yes. Ms. Marin, just so you know, the only reason that the red lines were included is because it actually is

078the red line for the the existing policy. >> Okay, yes. So we're going to start just like we did with the intentional tech. Okay, so is everyone clear cuz we cannot change in the minutes motion language or consensus language. So move by Stiers, Clark, Keller, SA for the motion. Um uh you could I think you have work session twice uh Ms. Clark. The May 5th work session. Yeah, the point of that is that we're bringing it forward to the work session. So if you want me to take out one of those work sessions, we can title it policy 1334 standard school year calendar SA for May 5th. I don't think you're naming the document here. It just says to the work session twice. So We just Yeah, we're moving it to new version of policy

079blah blah blah blah blah to the work session. Okay, full board full board work session. Please. Yes. It's important that we get this right. Okay. To the full board work session on May 5th. Okay. And we have without objection, we're good with this language. No objection. All right, well done, everyone. Um I do want to just ask though and maybe this will take another consensus vote, we did ask the superintendent to return with any legal review of the two policies and I don't believe we got that. And I don't know if it's needed right now, but well, I want to keep us moving. So maybe and it might be moot because we just are now doing this policy, but the other thing was about collective bargaining. I I'm not we haven't talked about that at

080all in terms of this policy and the implications for staff days, you know, I I don't know. So, for the May 5th work session that would I just would like some feedback from the superintendent on again, just like I asked for last time, what is it this does this okay? Like does she have feedback? Okay. >> I I have John's notes. I reviewed it with John. I can answer the question. Well, I I think we need to move on and we just voted to move this forward. So, I don't know what to say. We It was something that was expected to be delivered at this meeting. Well, we did ask her for it. We asked for >> information back to the meeting and Mr. Foster is here to speak to it. He stepped out, but

081I can speak to it, which is that it does um it does meet a legal threshold. We're you're fine within this. Um the draft calendar policy complies with the requirements of federal and state law. Uh once a citation to the Virginia Administrative Code is corrected in the draft policy. There's one correction that needs to be made. Um and he's attached the red line that corrected that Virginia Administrative Code citation. Um So, Okay. That's the answer. Okay, great. So, we're still good. And then um All right. So, >> So, I just wanted Ms. Marin clarify it. For the work session, you would like an update on collective bargaining implications of the calendar as well as another readout from Mr. Foster on the legal aspects. I mean, it seemed like there aren't any collective bargaining give issues

082given that none have come up yet. But again, we're talking about staff's time for professional development. I just don't know. I think that there It would be good just to know your confirmation that we're doing the right thing. Well, I think there's a difference and I know it's nuanced for the public, but there is a difference between the student calendar, which is published, and a staff work calendar. And that staff work calendar is something that's done collaboratively with HR. There's actually a 16-member team including staff from various um employee groups. So, I do think um I would like to take a moment and make sure that we review that and provide some feedback on that topic. Well, that sounds great. So, that'll be part of our agenda as well and I'll note that as um

083any collective bargaining implications. So, Okay. All right. Ms. Brown. Are we adding that to I wrote up there on the consensus? Are we adding that to I wrote it up just in case. >> [sighs] >> Ask for legal guidance around the collective bargaining agreement to be brought to the May 5th work session. Um Thoughts? Is that okay? I mean, just to have it noted here. Okay, regarding the calendar regarding the student calendar, please. How about that? No, the student calendar. This one we've been working on. We've been working on the student calendar. We don't work on the staff calendar, the employee calendar. Well, she said there is a whole thing with the staff calendar, but I just think we should know is there anything to be related here. So, ask the superintendent for legal guidance

084around the collective bargaining agreement regarding the student calendar to be brought to the May 5th work session. Sound good? Without objection? Okay. I I hate to be a pain, but is there a specific way you want it brought? Excuse me. Is there a specific way you want it brought? Can the superintendent just be prepared to speak to it at the outset? Doesn't have to be in slides if not necessary, but just please share what the information is at the outset when we're doing the presentation part. Which I'm not sure yet what the presentation part will be. It might be we'll see. So, just an update. Okay. Okay. Want to take a a breath here before we totally switch gears? No? Okay, hold on. I got to switch binders. Okay, so I want to thank everyone

085for sharing um philosophy statements. We had agreed at the meeting just last week to each take a stab at the philosophy. We covered a lot of ground in doing the purpose and um the definitions, but the philosophy is again really we really want to do the vision setting. So, for this discussion just to set where we want to go today, um we have about 45 minutes. We don't have a stringent of a timeline on this, but do we have an idea of where we want to be at the end of this 45 minutes? Do we want to try and get the philosophy figured out? Um Mr. Fisch is nodding his head yes and he is first to speak, but Ms. Lady, did you agree with that or haven't thought about the facilitation piece? Or you

086just want to talk? Okay. So, do you want to start with the philosophy stuff, Mr. Fisch? Okay, great. Thank you. All right. In addition to being my favorite Ben Folds song, philosophy, um I feel and I'm going to use I and me statements. I feel that philosophies work best when they lean into word economy and say what they mean. Um uh and and uh I quite liked the opening uh of the draft that was provided for feedback and to for all of us to kind of expound on. Um I tinkered with the opening sentence slightly just for word economy. And then my liking of it kind of fell off after the first paragraph cuz I'm like um all policies are guardrails um and the board is always going to be making sure that policies are

087enforced. And so, I was I I sat there and I'm like, okay, but pull back, Carl, and think from a 50,000-foot perspective, what is the goal of these paragraphs? What are they What is the author trying to make sure that the philosophy includes. And so, what I came away with was adding a extra sentence to the end of what I really liked. And that was um because the first half speaks to um the human-centered nature of education that we're wanting to continue to underscore. And I felt like what those other paragraphs were doing were trying to speak to digital literacy, academic integrity, and some other related issues. So, rather than spread it out into multiple paragraphs, I think the policy should do the talking on that and this should be very high level. And so,

088that's how I ended up with something fairly succinct. So, Mr. Fisch, just to clarify, so we do have each of our philosophy attempts in one document. And so, you did put yours in that I guess it riffs off of mine. >> thing by accident, but yes. >> And that's a riff off of mine. >> That's right. >> Okay, which riffed off of the original from way back when. So, okay. >> put basically what I said in the comments there on the document, but you'll see that at the top there's technology is a tool, but you don't need to say it's a tool. Technology may be used, right? And so, I felt that was a better word economy. And then if you go to the bottom, I ended it at a K-12 No, I didn't mean

089physically. I'm sorry. Go back up. All right. Um so, this is a perfect place to pause it actually. So, you'll see at the end of K-12 educational experience that I pick up that four lines of red underlined text basically takes what I saw as the underlying meaning behind the following three paragraphs and condenses it into a single sentence that speaks more to philosophy than what the intent of policy is. Cool. Thank you. Ms. Lady. And then Dr. Anderson. Oh, no. Uh Dr. Anderson? Um thank you. Um one of the things that I did in the version that I have is to capture what we talked about last time cuz I know we had had a little bit of debate as to the wording of human in the loop and Dr. Reed had shared that this

090is this shows up in other um policies that are that they've reviewed as staff. And so, I wanted to ensure that that stayed, but I also wanted to signal because again, the philosophy is where we speaks about where we speak to the value. This is our belief statement. And so, I also wanted to signal to the other things that are occurring around technology. It's not just the AI, but it's the screen time. It's mitigating negative um effects, which is what I had in my fourth paragraph here. And I really built this. I had the side by side of working on this policy in the second in the grading policy because we had something very similar. It went into it had more tentacles because it's a little bit more complex than, you know, our typical um

091policies in terms of really trying to signal what is it that the division is wanting to do? What is the um What is the belief of the school board? So, that's why mine looks the way that it does cuz it's really um formatted um It's really formatted at the same way we formatted the the grading policy. I I do feel like it's really important to offer some signals about some of the other things that come up with technology. The screen time, the negative effects, which we are trying to mitigate. Um so, that's why I have that in the fourth paragraph. Um If no placards are up, I can go ahead and comment. Um if we're sharing references to songs, I'll reference John Mayer's Say what you need to say. Say what you So, uh that's

092what I tried to do with the philosophy. So, and I had shared this in um like kind of my thinking, right? And and but at Mr. Frisch, I do like your your comments a lot and word economy, I love that. So, I was trying to relay some things that I've heard from or the most important things I've heard from parents, educators, students, and one another, you know, our belief that technology is is an augmentative tool to be used with intentional purpose. I really liked that. Then, validating that we have guardrails in key areas, the instruct the best practice and instruction, the academic integrity, the data security, although that really breaches into this whole other realm of IT. Like data security in a in as far as digital literacy and teaching students how to use it,

093you know, um and sort of a as we would say scaffolded, right? But really building that K-12 literacy. And then I do think it's important to say the role of parents and caregivers because this is not like anything else we've done. This is a revolution in our lives, and so I think it's a great opportunity to again say to parents, we need you. Like you've got to be part of this. And um you know, when we think about even the forthcoming resolution we want to do about waiting to give kids one-to-one devices, I think the more times we can state it, the more it shows families and staff our expectation. So, um so I am okay to go with um Mr. Frisch's edits. Um I do want to go back though and maybe massage some

094language, but I'd be okay to move that forward. Um And I think that's that's it for now, Ms. Lady. Go ahead, Ms. Lady. Robin Lady. Yeah, I just didn't know if you heard me. No, I heard you. >> Okay. Um so, um I'm just going to give myself a little pat on the back cuz I was the first to actually submit an edit to the philosophy. You and I appreciate that everyone seemed to have loved my first sentence or two. Um my main concern, I like I like uh the conversation we're having. I felt like mine was incredibly succinct and to the point, but the one thing mine includes I don't see elsewhere is an inclusive learning environment. When we're leveraging technology, it has a lot to do with UDL and inclusive, you know, when

095we're talking about how students learn, you know, I happen to be somebody who had to had to read in in my in my dorm room in college cuz I had to read out loud. I had to hear it. I had to hear myself saying it, and I had to see it. And you know, and we're going to get into the use of devices, but you know, if I were a learner now, I would want to be able to have headphones on and see and hear what I'm reading on a page. And for you to take that away from me is going to it limit my access to learning. So, I just I I don't you know, again, I think mine is succinct other than I I forgot to make the edit of technology may be

096used in the service of, so I did make that edit right here on my page. >> [snorts] >> I you know, we can wordsmith it some more, but I just think we need to include that that it in an in an inclusive learning environment support world-class education for each and every student. So, I'm a little attached to that. Okay, thank you. Um Did you Did you go already? You did? Okay, Ms. Engebretson Lady, did you have any first remarks in this round or Um I I like the way um um Mr. Frisch put the policy together. I do like the language of inclusive. I think that's important for a lot of reasons. Um I also like the fact that I mean, I think sometimes some words are I I just think it's more succinct. That's

097all. Thank you. And um you know, again, this is we are in new territory. It's okay if it's not as short as others. If we need to say what we need to say, you know, it's it's all right. Um and I do want to say I did really like the some of the word choices Dr. Anderson's used, you know, harness the potential of tools, um enhance professional judgment, creativity, instructional expertise. So, I would be up for weaving in some of her language into where we're headed, Dr. Anderson. Yes, um we're not being paid by the word in here. And so, I I I've said this before and I'll say it again, these documents, these policies communicate direction to our superintendent and communicate intent and expectations to our community. There are some things that um I

098love the succinctness of of most things, but we have got to make sure we're hitting on the things that are being raised as important to our community. They want to know what is our overall thinking about screen time and how we are going to mitigate deleterious impacts to their students, their children. And um I I'd like for those things to be considered as additions. We cannot miss the opportunity to have that conversation with the public because absent a very clear and explicit articulation of our thinking, that gap will be filled with what people think we're not thinking about. Like you're not even paying attention to the these very important and real facts. So, I I I'd like to think that this is a space where we can afford to use another paragraph or so to

099really make sure that our public is clear about our position. So, let me offer this too. Just kind of like we do with the calendar, are there places where where in alignment? Are there topics that we'd want to cover in the philosophy that are not in there? And are we getting towards a place where perhaps after this discussion, we can work to wordsmith the policy more? And just like with the calendar, right? Our big ticket items were the cultural observances and early release days. I would say for this topic, our big ticket items are one-to-one devices and screen time. Um you know, at Los Angeles Unified today just or was on the USA morning show over the weekend or whatever, their board is proposing no devices one-to-one for kids second grade and younger, I believe.

100So, there's big things happening. Do we want to reflect this in our policy? I'm not saying we're banning stuff, right? But we're saying what is the measured approach? So, I would say for the purposes of um facilitating this discussion, what more can we do with this philosophy? Is it getting at the topics we want? What can we do after this? And can we dig in more to the discussion about do we want to put our flag in the ground about devices and screen time? Because that has come up as our two biggest things. So, okay, Ms. Lady, I think you had your placard and then Mr. Frisch. Yeah, I mean, I think that the big deal here is that we have to be um the technology has to be used appropriately, right? Like it's not

101the amount of time, it's what you're doing with it. And I think that something we're going to be short-sighted if we say no to K through 2. And I think that we're stupid if we're like, have at it. You know what I mean? Like there we we're creating guardrails, you know? But like when I talk about now, like if I'm a second grader or first grader trying to read and I have to see and hear the words, that's not going to happen if I don't have a device. >> Well, just to clarify, there's one-to-one, and then there's like classroom sets where kids Well, when they're on one-to-one, kids are taking them home. So, just can we bifurcate those a little bit? >> We can, but guess what? I'm a kindergartner in Ms. Smith's class. She

102teaches me all day. She has a class set. It's one-to-one because she has a class set. Now, and they for the most part, they don't go home in K2. I I think we are confusing two. One-to-one, I my understanding is that means that that kid is assigned a device, and it is like on their desk, they're taking it home every day. >> No, no, not it's not happening K2. Well, hold on. Can we just get clear on on the on the what's on what's happening? Right now, we have a device for every student, which is different than having a classroom set. And maybe Dr. Reed, you can clear Can we just get some clarif cuz cuz if we're not clear on what's happening, right? Like Dr. Reed, so can you define like does every kindergartner,

103for instance, have a device assigned to them as opposed as different to a classroom set, which maybe is like a dozen, and they're used intermittently by the teacher to address student needs? So, I know that Dr. Presidio, that falls under instruction, so do you want to clarify that, please? Yeah, I think um it is a little confusing, and I understand the bifurcation that you're trying to make, but to Ms. Lady's point, the way that we've done it is basically provide the devices that are available to students, and we have assigned them to individual students in case they do need to take them home or want to take them home. Um we don't send them home at the primary grades with any frequency. That doesn't happen very often. Um they don't even use the devices in

104class that frequently. Um but they are assigned on a one-to-one basis so that a student actually has access to that particular device. Um so, if you were to say, "Okay, now we're just going to have a classroom set of computers," which is essentially what we have now, there's really not a distinction to be made because you're still going to have the student assigned to that particular device, and they're going to go and pick it up off the cart and use it, and that's basically what they do now. And is it that device in a classroom set assigned to a student? Yes. Is it like textbooks cuz I know we have classroom books. So, that way you have continuity of use of the machine. You have the ability to understand who's using what. Um there's some

105liability damage protection associated with that. There's efficiency in distribution of devices for teachers to students. Okay, so that's So now we're clear. So my understanding is now where you're at, Ms. Lady. So one-to-one is what we have now, whether it's in the class and goes home or whatever. Okay, thank you. I'm glad we clarified that. Please continue. I'll take a go back. I cuz I forgot the rest of mine. I'm sorry. [laughter] But it was really important that we did that. So thank you for for entertaining that, Ms. Lady. As soon as you remember, we'll interrupt everybody else. Uh Mr. Frisch, if you remember what you were going to say. Oh, did you Oh, I don't know. Ms. Cunningham. Yeah. So yeah, I do want to go back to what we were saying. I think

106that there's a difference between regulations and policy. And we were just talking about regulations, like that one-to-one. And I know because I worked in schools, that kid has to be assigned that device because that is the only kid that's supposed to be touching that device. Cuz guess what? If that device gets broken, that's also accountability. So it's like when you used to get assigned a textbook, if it was all scribbled, we knew who scribbled it cuz it was your textbook. It doesn't mean that it's one-to-one that they can go back and forth. And but we know one-to-one, we can know what the kids getting into, we can know if there's any issues with that device, we can fix the device, and if there's any damage to that device and liability. You know, that's the only

107kid that should be touching it. So that has been established. I think there's a difference when we're talking about establishing the guardrails and expectations for best practice because we are going to have some kids, as we talked about where we talked about all-inclusive, that need a one-to-one device in order for them to access academics and education depending on what their needs are. So I think when we talk about guardrails and expectations of for best practice, that's defining it right there. And we should always be looking at best practice and recent data, data-driven decisions. But I don't think we need to get down in the weeds. I think that goes down into regulations that we're we would hope that our superintendent making decisions and regulations based on best practices. And maybe we should add, you know,

108data-driven information as because it is moving so quickly, like the information that we're getting back. So that's why I like more succinct. Uh I think the other details become more regulation or maybe responsibilities. Um and then it is our job as elected officials, and it is the job of principals and teachers to say this is what our expectations are, this is what's happening. I know I did that as a family liaison all the time with my communication with parents and with parent coffees. Um So I just like the succinct lang- language. I understand what Dr. uh Anderson is saying, but I think with policy, we just have to be succinct. Thank you, Ms. Lady. Yeah, I I 100% agree. I think that uh again, you know, I was quite fond of mine um because it

109was quite succinct. And in full disclosure, I did discuss it with superintendent um over the weekend just to see if it sort of met with kind of if there was anything I was missing, and she offered me a beautiful edit to it. Um But I where we are now, I mean I I like Carl's is succinct. Um again, I want the uh inclusive learning environment included. But I just think I yeah, it's I just think that four stanzas in a philosophy uh four paragraphs is it's redundant. I mean, a lot of what's in there is redundant. It's It's just said a different way in a different paragraph. And I think we can be more succinct to help our our families grasp that this is the philosophy of the of the policy. Keep reading cuz there's

110more in the policy. We This is just the macro you know, philosophy piece of it. Thank you, Mr. Frisch. Uh on the question of the length of philosophy, I think people do not read. And so we need to be as clear and concise as possible. That said, I did read read Dr. Anderson's twice now. There are some things that I think we could pull over. Number one, I was not here for the human in the loop conversation, but that language could easily be incorporated into the draft that I revised. Number two, and I do think that there is repetition. So for example, the one the one piece that I think could be pulled over that isn't clear in the version I revised, but it's said three times three different ways in the last paragraph, is

111and I I'd be I'm ambivalent to like which version gets pulled over, but it's the part that speaks to um the the use of the technology uh being guided by the principles of child development and well-being. I think that fits. And it probably fits in between the two sentences that I drafted. Um and I think that that itself captures everything else that's in that paragraph without having to get in the weeds. That's what the policy's for. Thank you, Mr. Frisch. Dr. Anderson. I also think inclusive easily is a I'm not going to defend my version. I love it. That's it. >> [laughter] >> That's That's what it is. And with everything else, if I had two more days, more would be done. We could just do these forever. So I'm not defending it, but I

112did have a follow-up question for Dr. Procopio um because I I remember very distinctly that I had a parent raise concerns with me because their child, who is definitely either first or second grade, had to carry their computer back and forth to school. So you're saying that is not the expectation or we have not set an expectation? We have not set a requirement for them to go home, and they, to my knowledge, rarely go home at the primary grades. Um there could be obviously instructional benefits to students taking them home occasionally, but not as a regular practice. >> Yeah. Okay, well, I will definitely circle back with you because that was that parent's concern because they're like, I don't want my kid lugging this computer back and forth in their backpack. It's bigger than them.

113Yeah. No, I understand. Thank you. So but I love my version. Noted. Um So look, regarding the philosophy, I mean, hey, the good news is is that it starts some have shorter and some have longer. And it's not the worst thing if it was a little bit longer. And I think this is a nice place where perhaps we can reach some compromise and infuse some of the longer language into the shorter. So I'm I'm hopeful that we can get to that and that those who like the super succinct can just expand their um you know, their tolerance level to just a little bit more, and we could get to agreement. I'm I'm Excuse me, do Um would Mr. Frisch and Dr. Anderson like to work on um fine-tuning the philosophy? They would like that. So

114Mr. Frisch and Dr. Anderson will work on fine-tuning the philosophy given all of the feedback they've received. So in the about 25 minutes we have left, >> Are you Can I say one thing? Um Hold on, and the deputy clerk, yes. Yes, please put that in the next step that Mr. Frisch and Dr. Anderson will be um working to revise the philosophy reflecting the feedback. And it will include inclusivity. Yes. >> Inclusive learning environment. Thank you. Okay. So I will jot that down. Inclusively. Yeah. If we could shift a little bit to what what's the work that we that lays ahead of us. So I mean, well done on philosophy, guys. Like we're doing great. So responsibilities, that covers a whole bunch of minutia. I still I know I want to talk more about one-to-one

115device and the discussion we started today. Do we want to just take some time now to say what are the areas we really want to talk more about? Do we also want to think about a timeline because if this policy is to guide the superintendent getting it done before the end of this school year, you know, before laptops get assigned and you know, all of that, do we want to map and we only have one more scheduled um governance committee meeting. We did not yet schedule the May meeting. So um and we will come back to the consensus. But just um let's just do a quick calendar check. So we have um our next governance committee meeting is scheduled on May 19th. And then um that is all that we have scheduled. So the calendar

116work again will move over to the work session. So that's great. But between now and May 19th, what do we want our work to look like? Um Why don't we just go around the room? Uh Ms. Cunningham, and then we'll go to Ms. Lady. Um so I I do appreciate this being aspirational in terms of trying to get this done quickly, but I just don't think that we can get there. Um I think there's some other consider- I've been like looking into other school policy Well, I've been looking into how this is done. And the timelines that I've seen that are reasonable to get something done with fidelity is 6 months. And I know that sounds like that's a long time, but I think that if we're going to do this work, we owe it

117to ourselves and to our community to do it with fidelity. I need I think we need input from people that are actually using the technology, our teachers and our staff, and see how they're they're doing it, our SBITs, even our teachers. I think there's input. I always worry about how this gets operationalized and how it's being used. and I think that sometimes don't get that. We don't seek that input when we develop things, and I know from working in schools, my colleague will also know from working in schools that all of a sudden something comes down and the school board says you have to do this, and everyone's like in a flutter, but like why? Because there was a lack of understanding of what how it actually happened. So, I would like to take the

118time to do this with fidelity to get the input from all of the stakeholders in this um We've done a lot this year. I think this board has done a lot. Um from boundaries to, you know, just we've done a lot this year. And this is important, and because it is important, I think we need to dedicate the time that it needs. That's just my That's my two cents. Plus, I have weddings and my my daughter's getting married and my niece in you know, so I'll Huh? My daughter's getting married. >> [laughter] >> Congratulations. >> son. Wow. Um Ms. Lady. So, um there's a lot to be done here, and I've got concerns um because I felt like this was a priority that needed to get done over anything else this year because I feel

119like it's holding up the superintendent's ability to do work. Um we keep finding out about this pilot and the people are like, "Why are they piloting it?" Or "Why are they creating a vision statement here?" And people got to keep going. I mean, schools are like, "What are you doing up there?" Like we need to get this done, and and we added things to it. So, I'm looking at my calendar, and I'm like you know, we were supposed to get a second meeting, you know, like I'm happy, you know, we're going to struggle to find a day that works, you know, I'm looking at May 4th. Like I feel like I wish we could nail down May the 4th be with you. Maybe that's the could be our next meeting, 4:00 to 6:00 on the

120on a Monday. I mean, we've got to do something if we're going to get this done. We It's not going to get done in one more meeting. It's impossible. Um so, that that's a thought, and then the other thing when it comes to one-to-one devices, I do believe that Dr. Reed um has every intent to and I want to support that. Um sorry, I have a bunch of notes on my notes page cuz I was only had one screen when I was preparing for this. You know, that we have some kind of citizen technology committee, and when it comes to one-to-one, um again, I think we just talked about the one-to-one, right? We need classroom sets. They need to be assigned to specific students. Um but I think that you know, a citizen committee, not

121a school board advisory, but more like what she does with basal adoptions, but but it would meet in purp you know, like it wouldn't I had a conversation with one of my colleagues on the board, Mr. Frisch. So, this is his idea, and I agree with it, is it wouldn't disband because it's ongoing, right? Sorry. You can reiterate it. Um but my point is like I don't you know, I'm I'm I I think that as I said before, it's quality versus quantity. You know, I think that people are very misguided and have a misunderstanding of how devices are being used for educational purposes. And at the same time, it can be very frustrating because you know, when I'm sitting in front of a classroom and I've got 28 kids in front of me with a

122device, I can't control that they're all in the right place. It's a fact. You know, I hope that our teachers at every level would move more towards paper pencil. You know, I've talked AP Lang teachers who don't let their kids write on the computer anymore. It's back to piece of paper, skip skipping lines, and I've had English teachers tell me they are loving it because they're actually seeing their kids' ideas on paper evolve. So, can I ask you how do we think and think about then what is the work for us to get there? You know, just like we do with the philosophy. So, what does that look like? And so, Mr. Frisch, I see you now. You have Maybe you can pick up from there. How do we Look, maybe the policy doesn't have

123to be very long. There's a bunch of stuff in the draft now that speaks to presumed use, one-to-one devices. How are tools selected? What's our responsibility as a board? Like we can make it simple. Yeah. I mean, talk about succinct. We could really do that if we really focus on what must be in here right now. I I probably need to think on that a little more, but I feel I have a different opinion than some people just because I I I realize how much we I don't know about what's going on operationally, but I don't have fear around it because I But it's I just want You're not addressing There's fear, right? But you're also addressing inconsistency. So, let's take the fear out of it right now, and it what's better for kids or

124not. Do we need to make a statement about wanting consistency? Yeah, we Yes, I love consistency, but I've also worked in a school, and I've got a wet behind the ears teacher No, let me finish though. I have a wet behind the ears teacher who's brand new, and I got a veteran. You know, I used to go up to one of this one teacher at Chantilly in physics. I said, "You have no grades in the gradebook." He's like, "What do you want to know?" "Well, how's Marcia doing?" I mean, he knew everything about Marcia. I could ask about Carl. But my point is, he was a veteran. He could watch them do one problem, and he knew what was going on. So, we want consistency, but people evolve in different ways. So, >> How do

125we set a floor? Mr. Frisch. Yeah. Um so, I had intended to talk a little bit about what what Robin and I were chatting last night. Um and I told her that um Tom and I have been talking about uh what does a citizens advisory committee? And we talked a little bit about it with members of the community uh week before last. Um and I don't want to have to recreate the wheel because that gets complicated really quickly. Um and I've kind of seen uh and what Tom and I have talked about is like, how do you combine uh the focus of a basal resources review committee with kind of the charge of a challenged materials committee, which is you know, challenged materials committee acts when needed, right? Um and granted, the challenged materials is

126like when somebody complains from the outside, but this would be more along the lines of there are There's a charged list of things to tackle, and there doesn't always have to be something to tackle, but maybe there's four or five things that are set up in a row that that the committee has to tackle. Um and then maybe in a year when there's a big technology contract that has to be renewed or considered for other options, that's the next thing that that group works on. And then the piece that it borrows from the basal review committee is that it's made up of educational experts, educators, board members all appoint somebody to the committee, etc. Um and then uh that committee helps inform what's brought to the board for consideration. Um and so, kind of where

127I'd ended up, and my worry was that we would rush the policy to get it done. Granted, I like that there's a 2-year kind of like relook or whatever. But then I thought, "Well, what if the form If I brought a form topic that Tom and I were kind of leaning in this direction." A form topic that says, "Direct the superintendent to do X. Direct governance to include in the policy um a specific thing." That way the board is weighing in on something that can actually be impactful in a number of different areas that we all want to see um some kicking of the tires and perhaps change. Um because as I was looking at the policy, and this is why I think it's important to begin that piece of the work first um even

128if we don't have a policy in place yet. Um I think that the subject of devices is not something for the policy. It's something that gets tackled by such a committee, and then the board weighs in on that. Um and I see that as the same way a one-to-one device I see as the same way of like a new instructional device being brought into a classroom, right? It gets tackled the same way. Um and so, these bigger overarching technological questions, whether it's one-to-one devices, whether it's a technology rollout in all of our schools, there'd be a footprint by this committee that that then comes to the board. Um and that could be put in motion before we finish the policy if we know that's where we want the policy to end up. That's what I

129was going to say today, and I did. I'm glad you did. Dr. Anderson. Yes, couple of things. One, I've been toiling around with my own form topic around a supervi- around an advisory committee. I'd love to let you take a crack at it because I do think that we need to have an opportunity for people to engage with this and to give us feedback um in the same way that we have many other things. Um that piece cannot be missed. As this thing is rapidly evolving, we also know we have a lot of talent in Fairfax County that we can pull in order to to make the to make this advisory committee a little bit more inf- more informative and not just um giving feedback and just getting things from staff in kind of giving

130their take on it. So, I I've got that form topic. I'd like to think it's 80% of the way done. Every time I come here, I add something new to it, and I need to just put a period and move that along. So, that's one. Two, we have been in this conversation for several months. So, I I think maybe the 6-month marker is met in some way because we do have to get this done so that the division can move forward. We must articulate what needs to happen, what are the guardrails. We have to not articulate that not only to the superintendent, but again to the public because there are people who have lots of questions about lots of things. This is an opportunity to be responsive to those questions and so that parents who

131are worried can just have their fears be allayed a little bit so that they are not as concerned because the board has not said what is it going to look like in Fairfax County. I I I I'd like to think we can get a we've been at this. The superintendent has version seven. Was that the last version? Version seven. It's not because we have not been at this. I think we need to philosophy, fine, great. Purpose, all of that is taken care of. Now, the meat, pulling from all these different versions that we have I I think it could happen in the you know, in two or three more meetings. Not even three, probably two more meetings. We have got to put a period and allow staff to to move forward because I think we're

132a little bit in a holding pattern until we can articulate what is AI and technology going to look like in Fairfax County. I would not want for us to go into the summer and this is not done. Okay. So, this is what I'm I'm thinking. There are some buckets of things that it sounds like again, just like with calendar that we want to find more alignment on. I'd like to read the buckets and I'm wondering then if we can figure out that these are the places where we need to get clearer on. If we can do that leading up to May 19th, return to this meeting and get clearer. So, one of those buckets, it's the biggest bucket to me. It's presumed use, devices and screen time. That's the number one thing parents are asking

133us about and we even heard it what's happening in the classroom? Is my Is it going home or not? Is it a class set or not? We don't have to answer that question, but just like with grading, we can say we expect the superintendent to set the expectation for device use. We don't have to say what that is, but what's the expected use for K2, for elementary? Like we can say that and then she figures it out, okay? Another bucket is how the tools are determined. How does it get from how does it get on to into kids' hands in front of their faces? That's what parents want to know. Who decided that? How did we decide Lexia? How did we decide Newsela? I think but it's it's Yeah, so so the first bucket is

134presumed used and devices and the screen time. That's like all one bucket to me. It's the actual engagement with the device cuz parents We have parents who have somehow amazingly kept devices out of their kids' hands and then they go to kindergarten and we're like, here's your device, little 5-year-old. And parents are like, what are you doing? That's not what I believe in. It's not what, you know, and the science is showing us that's detrimental. So, that is one bucket, okay? The second thing is how they're determined for use, how they're rolled out. I mean, I chat GPT teacher, I think is a great example. It's check it out on your own or okay, Pyramid, we're going to sign you all up together or here's a way to use a training or not. Again, we

135could say the superintendent when a tool is identified, there's got to be a clear roadmap of rolling it out. She can decide when. Um and that's got to include the teacher training, the parent communication how it's going to be used in instruction um how it's going to be measured, how much it's going to cost. And then report it to us in deciding how what's being used. A third one is governance. I'm really uncomfortable with the use of these free platforms and the board has had zero input on whether or not it's in front of our kids. I I feel very strongly that the policy has to have something about the board's role in approving devices and and platform uses especially if we're going to purchase them. I mean, it'll it's the ones that we're not

136purchasing it. They just don't seem to come to us. Another bucket is can the policy say it should say something about how generative AI is used for students? The policy could say generative AI will what? Not be used in elementary school? Generative AI will be part of the digital literacy plan so that by time kids get to high school, they are using it as a facilitated path. It's got Parents want to know if their kids are using generative AI. They are. Well, they It's not through us. Well, um I I have heard differently. If I could finish these other buckets and we could send them around, but the other buckets are disseminating innovative and promising practices. We know that our teachers are doing amazing things. How are we sharing that across schools? Digital literacy and

137protect and that's part of the academic integrity. Helping educators find that time by use like we've heard about these time-saving techniques. Are we ensuring teachers know what they are? Because just saying to a teacher, hey, figure out how to save time, it's like, oh my gosh, one more thing for teachers. And then the family engagement. So, and I can send those out, but again, I'm trying We have like less than 10 minutes left. What do we want to do between now and May 19th? What do we think we can get to on May 19th? It doesn't sound like this is going to a board session after this. So, that's my offering. Uh Mr. Frisch. Oh, well, okay. I'm sorry, Ms. St. John Cunning. So, I I just had a up before you start speaking. So,

138I just wanted what the one thing I want to mention along with advisory committee, Ms. Dixon and I have also been talking about an advisory committee and bringing it through PEC and getting that done. So, we've So, we've all been on that same page. So, I think it's something we can all discuss together. Um and and uh just a a point of correction. We've been talking about the AI policy for the past six months. We just changed it to tech policy at the last meeting and that was a huge change. So, we weren't even talking about one-on-one screens. We weren't talking about anything. We were talking about AI. So, we have broadened the scope, which I think is where we should be. Uh I just want to make that clarification because by broadening the scope,

139there's a lot more things that we have to consider as we should. Um so, I think that that's just an important distinction that we have to make and you just listed a whole lot of things, Madam Chair, for us to consider that are really critical and are important for us to look at and consider. Um Again, I will I mean, I'm I'm torn between directing the superintendent and maybe we should do something smaller with advisory committees and get something going and then maybe we can look at it a broader in a broader way. I just think this is a huge thing to tackle and the thing about it too for us is it's moving so fast that we know we have to have something in place, but we also have to be thoughtful and mindful

140and do something with fidelity. That's that's all I want to say. Sure, and I'll just say we don't have to answer all those questions. We could just say the superintendent has to figure out A through F. But go ahead, Mr. Frisch. I have a hard out at 6:00 and I think what would be most productive for the next meeting is if people brought their best thinking for the items that are identified in the current draft. That may be I don't think this should be in a draft that we consider, right? It may also be I like this, but I think it should actually focus in this direction or it could be I like the way that this is written, right? Uh one or two of them need to be fleshed out entirely, right? They just

141have a couple words or uh one sentence. So, um I think that that would be the best direction for us. Um would be that. I don't think that if we were in any other circumstance, let's say that this was January right now where we are currently in January, we'd be saying we're having a work session on this because that's good work for policy, right? So, um if we end up at the end of governance's uh school year tenure here in an okay place where the policy is kind of where calendar consensus seems to have emerged having a work session in August when we return is not the end of the world, right? Um and you know, I for one would like to get that committee started before the end of the school year and that

142is not required through policy, right? That is something that we can if the board consensus is that uh that work begin, it can begin and it can be written into the policy after the fact. Um so, that's my two cents. I think in terms of next step for the next meeting everybody should come with their thoughts kind of like we did on the philosophy. That doesn't mean we all have to rewrite every single section or whatever. Um but if there are things that we feel strongly about There are a few things in here that I feel very strongly about not including. But there are many things in here that I think in some form need to end up in the ultimate uh version. So, that's my two cents. Thank you. You know, yeah, a work

143session would be but we are not quite there yet and I think there's maybe an PM work session on the May 14th, but that's still not before our governance committee. You know, I think in the effort of being succinct could we looking at the draft policy as it is now, all these buckets, a lot of them I actually just re further synthesized the list that I read was even d- dialing this down more. We could just have simple statements. Again, there shall be a clear directive about one-to-one device use. We don't have to decide it. I mean, I personally would like to decide it, but if it gets us to alignment or there shall be um an established published protocol for how um IT tools are determined for kids. We don't We don't have to

144answer all the questions because we never will and it's going to keep evolving in this more than anything. So, I would, you know, challenge us to think about what are the questions we want to tee up for the superintendent with her expertise and team to work out how that happens. You know, she's already doing a parent academy, right? So, if we were to put in policy, the superintendent shall engage families, she's already doing it. We don't have to say make an academy, have a website, right? If we could kind of think a little bit bigger picture, take the pressure off of us to have all the answers, and then we can keep updating it. Dr. Anderson. I keep going back to this only because I sat here as we wrestled with that grading policy for

145a very, very, very long time, and we ended up in the same position that you're describing, which is this is the thing that has to be happening and to be consistent. We didn't say what it was, which is why it's one that I use as a model, that I have been using as a model in terms of formatting for how I'm approaching this um from my statements on the philosophy, which I love, to um Just in case you weren't clear. To even the responsibility section, this was this big thing that mattered so much to our community, and I think we ended up with a fairly good representation of what other big important community things could look like in terms of policy. I I could not stress enough how I think drawing on those parallels will

146ease us down the road of this a little bit. Thank you. And And so, Ms. Brown, it looks like you've captured our consensus, and if we could just as our last thing um all agree to this. So, we will bring our thoughts edits at the current draft with that title um to the May 19th meeting of the governance committee for review. But, we know that we're specifically talking about the responsibilities. Um So, do we want to put that in there that we really want to get through the responsibility section, or is it just enough to know that the whole thing? Are we okay with that as it is, folks? You added for responsibilities? Sure. In in particular, in particular. Yeah. Does that look okay for everyone? Yeah, we have consensus on that, folks. Just want

147to make sure. Committee members, so Mr. Frisch and Dr. Anderson. And then Wait, did you just want us to look at the responsibility, or as is everything that's there? Well, specifically, these were all those buckets we're trying to get to these big topics. So, right now they're in the responsibility section. So, certainly the whole policy, but we were really trying to drill down to these big topics that we know well, some of us want to be sure, I guess, it's addressed. So, it's that response That's That's the last section we haven't addressed in this policy, right? We've done really well getting through um the definitions, the philosophy. So, this is the remaining piece to really dig deep on. Yeah, I I think if we also can add I mean, cuz I know some buckets were

148identified, but there might be other quote unquote buckets >> Absolutely. This is that Absolutely. This is that time to bring that to all of us so we can review it. >> it to just that. >> Absolutely. It's from here and whatever else we think, you know, has to be in Yeah. Well, folks, this was really productive. Yes, uh Ms. Brown? Am I taking out responsibilities? You could You could leave that. Okay. And then there's And I didn't hear without objection. Without objection, are we okay to come with the final our final review of the responsibility section? Okay. And then there's one more consensus that Ms. St. John Cunning brought up earlier, and we can table that later. So, without objection, can we move the developed policy formatting package to new business? Uh as stated here,

149the uh policy 1102 and the strategic governance manual appendix F. Are you cool with that? Yes, without objection. Thank you, Ms. St. John Cunning. Wonderful work, everyone. See you soon. So, I I do want me to turn I did try. I did try to send out some dates. I'm happy to look at more. The challenge is that with the the No, no, no. It's not that others didn't Please Please let me finish. Thank you. Um so, it's not that Folks, those two dates did not work for Dr. Reed and others. The challenge is going to be some of the graduations and things like that. I'm happy to look at other dates and send it out. It's just those two dates did not work. Okay. With that, governance is adjourned at 6:03.