001Let me know before second. Any opposed? Any all in favor? I >> um >> no, she's going to um >> come back when she's complete with her meeting or her appointment. Um item 2.01, staffing standards. >> Uh good evening. Uh the presentation tonight for those who were at the February uh finance and budget committee meeting is going to look familiar uh because much of the content is the same updated to reflect the actual FY26 adopted budget. Um but have included information here as well that gets into slightly more detail forward looking of what uh it would look like to try to implement in full the board's uh adopted staffing standards for schools uh in years. So um just as a brief uh bottom line up front uh for you while we have made a tremendous
002amount of progress in implementation of the board's adopted standards uh from December 2022 um and the vast majority have been at least partially uh implemented. uh we are still at a point where we see uh some a cliff coming uh in terms of positions that have not been implemented to date and uh that to do so would have a significant impact. There are uh also a couple of areas where we've had to do some ongoing monitoring and revisions to the standards even in you know less than three years since they were adopted to reflect changes to state requirements as well as uh changes to facts on the ground uh to ensure that what we were doing was uh as closely aligned to student need as possible. So, uh, what I'll share tonight is just an
003overview of what we've, uh, done to date, what still is not complete, what it would look like, uh, and then just some considerations that staff are going to be focusing on over the next few months as we prepare for season. So, in terms of what has changed since uh, the original adoption of the staffing standards a little less than three years ago, uh, there are a high level number of things. uh two were driven at the state level uh regarding the ratio for reading specialists as well as the required level of staffing to support English learners. Uh another change that we made that was not due to a state change but rather to ensure compliance with the state requirement was uh splitting at the secondary level uh our staffing allocations uh to have one that
004was specific for English uh the SOQ related uh excuse me the so related uh verified credit English uh classes as opposed to all other gen that was to ensure we complied with the class size requirements for English 6 to 12. And the last is that we have had to continually adjust how we are addressing staffing our special education services in all grade levels. Um as uh we have all learned and as this board has discussed a number of times the backtobase move uh presented uh any number of challenges uh among them uh effective staffing uh of those classrooms. So, um, in collaboration with student services, with school leadership, with schools, uh, we've made, uh, adjustments each year to try to get a little bit better in how we were tailoring staffing, uh, within our means,
005uh, to support special education. But I will say that we are excited by the initial steps we've taken in, uh, moving, uh, away from that model, uh, to enable us to staff and I think what will be a more effective way going forward. >> Can I just ask a clarification point? So the English teachers for six through 12 >> having them. So basically what we're saying is you are just an English teacher. >> Were we doing something different? Like I'm just >> Sure. Uh the closest way to explain it is we've said the state requires that there's an average uh class size of uh 24 students to one teacher for English for the classes that are the credits that lead to uh great advancement and graduation. There are of course English classes that are electives.
006So um what we do is say that you need to have a minimum of this number of English teachers and it is based on the number of students projected for enrollment based on the number of students that an individual English teacher could teach uh across that the number of periods. It differs for elementary uh excuse me for middle and high. Um, there have been schools that have opted to use one of their other teachers who have an additional English teacher um, if they thought that was in their best interest in high school if they felt like they had a good amount of uh, English electives where a teacher with an English endorsement was wanted. Does that help? Yeah, I was just trying to figure out I mean I I definitely understood with reading specialists and
007ESOL teachers that that is that when we initially adopted these staffing standards, we didn't have them at that level, but the state said you must have them at that level. And so then you're having to make choices about maybe we can't meet some of our other staffing standards because the state has given us new staffing standards. So I was just trying to figure out how the English teachers fit in that. So that >> this was ensuring that we complied with a standard that was already in place that 24 to1 standard has been in place for years. Um and so it was an acknowledgement um as we had completed one year of implementation of the standards that we wanted to make sure that we had a guard rail in place uh to ensure ongoing compliance for
008that. >> Thanks. >> Was there any option site base not to meet the SOQ? That's what I'm confused. >> No, >> you say rather than relying on sitebased classroom assignments to do so. I mean, I assume that if they're making sitebased assignments that their first requirement is to meet the SOQ and then make other assignments. >> In the first year of implementation, we gave a set number of students or sorry, teachers per student. So we had a ratio that was for the entire high school um 27 to 26 to1 or something like approximately. And then for the second year we looked at that and said our SOQ for English is actually lower than that. So let's do an SOQ or an out staffing allocation for just English to make sure we're meeting that and then
009we have our allocation for the rest of the school. So ultimately by making sure we were um not negatively impacting all of our non-English classes and driving those class sizes up the school still had to meet the SOQ. we just weren't really um adequately um staffing them to do that. To to put it differently, when we gave them a a one big bucket, I'll say, of teacher positions to use, uh as they thought about the full program of study that they needed to offer, they looked uh pretty expansively to see how can I distribute these in order to offer as robust of a program as possible. That meant that somewhat late in the spring as we were looking at said, "Hey, wait a second. You don't have enough English teachers to be able to maintain
010the SAQ." Well, we can make that adjustment at that point. So, at no point were was SOQ compliance out of the way, but part of the point of the staffing standards was to be able to provide schools as early as possible with a clear vision of how many teachers they were going to need in the coming year. And so, what we found in consultation with school leadership was that specifying the number of English teachers enabled us to provide that clarity at the beginning of the staffing cycle rather than waiting until master schedules had been built and then forcing changes. >> Okay. So, there wasn't a choice. You can do the SOQS or you can do something else. Just this language, okay, implies to me that there's a rather than something else >> making choices. So
011they've always been a requirement to meet the SOQ. >> Yes. >> So the next few slides I'm going to share the things where we have either fully implemented a standard or partially implemented it. In a few slides I will share the things we have not yet begun to implement. So um this is not a complete list but the ones where we have made uh at least some headway but in the case of teachers and specialists a tremendous amount of headway uh when it comes to uh our staffing of out of classroom specialists particularly in the elementary and middle school level. um when it comes to adding uh special education department chairs meeting the requirements for English and uh ESOL um and in at least a couple of grade levels meeting our expectations or the board's
012uh established targets for class size ratios. We've made some headway on the class size ratios in grades 1 through five and in high school. Um, and I will note that in grades 1 through five, that was actually a question. We have slid backwards slightly from where we started um, as uh, we've balanced books u, and each budget year. And flagging here again uh, the special education staffing levels where uh, we are continually uh, right now reviewing how we approach our special education staffing. The SOQS from the state for special ed, are they reflective of the needs or are they just reflective of numbers? >> Yes and no. Um or a little bit of both. Um there is the the state requirement for special education staffing is not quite as crystal clear of a ratio as
013it is in some other areas. There is separately in state regulation um limitations on case loads for a teacher saying that they may have a maximum case load of x number of students x plus two if there's a parent in the classroom full-time. Um and so that is that information provides some guidance for us but the uh state's requirement when it comes to uh SOQ compliance and uh and state law compliance for special education is far lower. >> Right. But is it not the case that if if you have it far lower you can end up with a situation where a parent can make the case that they need a dedicated aid for their student. >> Correct. and then it suddenly costs you a lot more money. >> Correct. >> With regards to uh administration
014and uh student services, um full implementation for um assistant principles um our deeds of students in the high school level and broadly uh in the uh specialized instructional support personnel uh assist positions. uh we've made tremendous headway uh a really narrow uh band of areas where we have not reached that. Um the cast law ratio for high schools um the board's adopted standard was 250 to1. Uh as of now it's 300 uh to one. Uh we >> what's the state requirement? >> Uh the state court is 325. Okay. >> And uh with psychologists we have not gotten to the level of staffing that we would like. uh that is uh largely a product of uh budget and labor market. Uh in prior years we saw that uh we there was a decision that there was
015enough funding available to invest into mental health personnel. And there was a strategic choice made that we were in better position to fully uh to fill our social worker positions if we uh established that staffing standard and and funded that uh versus psychology services where we have learned to live within that means whether we think that's the best of our >> Can you um remind me the gap with we're seeking to fill with the ASL interpreters and as far as staffing and then what we're using to kind of band-aid that until we can >> Yes. Um so uh with ASL interpreters there is not a strict standard um required by the state. Uh what uh the board had adopted was a ratio of this is going to sound strange but 1 to 1.5 um name
016it differently three interpreters for two students um which uh meets some of the industry uh expectations. um ASL interpretation uh is is manual labor uh and so there are some requirements for swapping of interpreters uh which is why you have to overstaff things right now what we've uh staffed is at a ratio of 1 to 1.2 two uh so it's a little lower than that. Uh we rely on contracted services uh where necessary to supplement that. I know that's an area where there is uh interest from my colleagues in student services and being able to supplement. >> I just want to make sure I'm seeing 1 to 1.2 was adopted in December 2022. Right now we we staff it at 1 to 1.5 which is why it's only been partial. Is that right? >> I
017think it's the flip of that but okay. But >> because partial mean because we haven't quite gotten to the board adopted standard for December 2022, right? Okay. with instructional support uh staff. Again, largely full implementation of this the uh introduction of contracted daily building substitutes um are established ratios for instructional pair of professionals. Um and at the middle and high school levels, uh special education professional pair of professionals um in at all levels. Um, also in high school, the specialized instructional support for our uh, driver's side instructors and our uh, job coaches. Um, again, partial implementation in the special education world as we continually assess them. And then on the operations uh, front, I'm going to quickly pause to note this is school specific operations positions. This is not speaking to overall operations positions uh,
018from central operating departments. Um we have fully implemented what was in the board's adopted standards uh for uh the vast majority of uh positions um as intended. Uh the two places where we have not yet made headway are with school security officers and then uh with the original intention for there to be additional administrative assistant support at the uh elementary and middle level. Um, that latter one was always scheduled to be implemented later in the five-year implementation cycle. Um, but with school security officers, that's something that has been deferred over time. >> Accounting assistance. Do we have one at every school or is that a high school thing? What is >> there's one at every school? There are two at every high school. >> Two assists. >> Uh, accounting assistants. Yes. >> Okay. So, there's
019an a bookkeeper and then there's there are two accounting assistants. >> No, we're using the terms interchangeably. bookkeeper. Accounting assistants. >> Okay. So, accounting assistants are bookkeepers. What I would think of is largely. Got it. So, it's not a bookkeeper plus an assistant. Correct. Got it. That >> at the high school, one is 11 months and one is 12 months. >> Correct. Okay. Great. Thanks for the clarification. >> The security officers in the high schools are they the um SRO on the sheriff's? >> No, this is separate. So we have the SRO, but then we have the directly employed school security officers. >> And do they work together? >> Yes, closely. >> Do we have uh can we get and you may have sent it to me and I'm having a brain mess here. Um
020and SRO and SPO, how many schools have them of our of our all of our schools? Like I'd like to see a school with a match kind of a list of what we have. >> Yeah, we've seen that in the past. >> We have and I know it changes with you have retirement, but I also know recruiting isn't always a top priority for that position because we always need >> between two schools. >> Right. Right. And that's what I kind of want to see what that looks like. Um, and then, um, because what I'm also wondering, and I know you're going to come into it later on in your slides when you talk about school security is, uh, just seeing like, you know, are we >> deficient in in a school security officer and an
021SRO andor SPO? Like I just want to kind of see >> how are we covering ourselves, >> right? with SRO, SPO, SSO, and then these school safety monitors, right? >> And much like at the sheriff's level, we know that, you know, we have funded positions that are hard to fill, much like our education positions are hard to fill, >> um how we are on filling the ones on our side as well. >> Yeah. >> And I just I just want to know, you read my mind, >> what we have and how we're covering ourselves um in the schools. And then also I see on here and I I discussed this with you earlier um the we've covered the administrative assistance in high school as I understand in previous administration that we were trying to take
022from the high schools and put out a little bit more to uh to make it equitable in our elementary schools and middle and so I don't know did that happen is change and so when I see administrative assistance in ES and MS I'm just like but I thought we kind of went that way so I don't Can you clarify that? >> Sure. So the board's adopted standards from December of 2022 would have added two administrative assistant positions to every elementary and middle school from its previous staff. In the first year of implementation, we added one. >> Okay. So that left 25 schools that would be slated to add an additional clerical uh person in the front office. At the high school level, uh the staffing standards reduced to clerical positions from prior staffing levels. Okay.
023So >> So it did do that. >> It did do that. Reduced clerical positions. >> When I saw it fully implemented, I was like, wait, that to me made me think we added versus subtracted. So I appreciate that clarification. Thank you. So, we've survived the high school taking them away. >> Um, >> you're asking you're asking you're asking me the question and I will say yes. If a high school principal were sitting here, they might give a different answer. >> Done. Right. The high school principles have told me, >> right? Yeah. A lot of but yes, surviving. >> Yes. >> But if you ask the elementary school teacher principles who got the first seat, they're loving it. >> Yes. Very appreciative. >> Those were tears too, but they were the happy tears. >> That's right.
024>> Right. Very appreciative. >> So, thus far, I've discussed the things that we have either fully or partially implemented. Um, there are still, however, a number of things that we have not yet begun to implement. Um, and this list is is important to acknowledge as well. So on the instructional side, uh the board's adopted standards from December 2022 envisioned being able to enact differentiated staffing based on uh schools with that would be identified for heightened need on multiple measures. Um that has not been funded and has not been uh implemented as a result. at the elementary level. Uh right now our largest elementary schools are running on a six-day rotation uh for specials with quite large uh specials classes um because we have not been in the position to implement the standard that had been
025designed to enable a five-day specials rotation. So will the um the bringing on of two schools and kids coming out of schools is that going to help with you what you're describing as large because we're going to we've kind of allocated kids. >> Yes. >> Go to answer now. >> You went to law school as well. >> But I'm not a lawyer here. I'm a school board member. You're not a lawyer here. HR whatever talented. >> Yes. But we hear you do that lawyer speech. So, >> um, >> yes. No, that's a good one. >> Um, >> can't be wrong. See, >> the last thing the last thing I'll not uh in at the high school level, uh, the board stopped standards in 2022 included math specialists and workbased learning specialists for high school. Um,
026you know, I think as we continually consider what the program of study looks like going forward in the strategic plan, whether those are the right uh remain the right standards is the point of conversation. Okay. Um on the student service side, I'll again point out the differentiated staffing uh and the lack of implementation there because I think that with at the individual school level uh those that would be identified for differentiated staffing, I think many would be just as likely to opt for uh mental health support and uh emotional health support as they would be for instructional support. So I wanted to acknowledge that. Um and the same with uh 504 coordinators at all levels. Um the the reason I did split those out is that we actually do have some staff operating as 504
027coordinators at the high school level and at one middle school as a pilot, but that uh is not in place in elementary. On the administrative side, deans of students um while we've been able to add them at the high school level and uh with tremendous gratitude from uh high school administration for the additional capacity, um that is not something we've been able to implement um across other grade levels. Do we not have any at elementary school for a while? We had a couple >> I I'll uh >> I'll I'll answer the question. Sorry. Um, we presently have one in an elementary school that was at that was used. We used a budgeted FTE, budgeted teacher FTE to assign one to an elementary school that was approaching 900 students, which is where we would normally add
028a second AP um late in the cycle uh because it did not end up reaching 900 students, but it was high enough and with a high enough need. This was something that was included in a >> but we did have some deans and students at elementary school. So, they went away. Is that correct? They did because those people were in deans of students positions because they had not yet earned their assistant their administrative supervision. >> They got promoted to assistant. >> We still have the Okay. >> Right. That they were deans of students in place of being assistant principles. Yeah. >> Can I go back to just the encore question real quick? So, um, in my experience, what that looks like in elementary school on a six day rotation is, you know, essentially five days
029of or let's say four days of art, music, the other um encore classes and then two days of PE and generally speaking PE is a double class. So Miss Smith and Miss Jones will join together and have two PE teachers and that but I know that that is my experience >> the four because like >> so it's library and then steam. >> Oh steam different. >> So we always had two. >> Yeah. So if we are >> going to fund additional encore teachers in elementary school, what might that look like in the student experience? Like how might that change their accessibility to sometimes >> it wouldn't be able to >> like we still have six classes, right? So how do we make that a fiveday rotation? >> Well, not all schools have classes >> because
030it's PE is twice. So is it like a PE once? Is that what it look like? >> Had five like every day you had a different >> and PE was always twice. Um, so >> that's what I'm trying to figure out is like right now I feel like these are the classes and if these are the classes then what's either getting added or taken away to make it a five-day rotation. >> So there are minimum requirements for instructional time for PE for music and art at the elementary level. Um, and plus there's guaranteed access to library. So the typical five-day rotation would be two days of PE, one day of art, one day of music, one day of library. um on a five-day rotation, on a six- day rotation for the schools that have been
031able to have one extra encore teacher because they are so large that it would be completely untenable uh if they did not. Um some have added an additional PE teacher and just made a third PE part of that rotation. Some have added a steam teacher um that usually is on a cart moving between uh classrooms. Okay. >> Um but different schools have handled it differently. Um in uh other school divisions where they uh there is additional encore staffing um sometimes this takes the form of a steam teacher. Often it takes the form of having multiple teachers of the existing disciplines um that just split grade levels. >> That was that's what I was kind of wondering is are we adding classes? Are we breaking into sections? Yeah, it's not it often is less about like
032let's expand the program of study to have more than a five-day rotation and more about let's have more manageable classes a fiveday program. >> So we wouldn't be adding a Spanish teacher to our elementary schools as a specials. >> No. >> Okay. >> I think that it's a point of dialogue but that is not >> that's not the plan for this standard. >> Yes. Um the last thing I'll note on uh is in the operational uh side uh school security officers we partially implemented the standard at high school. We haven't implemented it at all um in middle school. So Miss Randall to your question um we can certainly get back to you. I'll check with Mr. Zuck uh on the information regarding the staff being provided from the sheriff's office. Um but um but at
033the middle school level there are no Stafford employed um security personnel. >> Okay. um >> then it would really be >> SRO's >> but as long as every single one of the middle schools have one. If they don't then we're I I agree with you. >> Then if they don't have an SRO, then I feel very compelled to do something to support their security. >> At one point we did. >> Exactly. >> We did not and then we did. But this really is dependent on the sheriff being able to >> them. It's not because he doesn't want to. It's just he's got the same recruitment. And in my conversation with the sheriff, you know, he usually is able to say that they do have an SRO allocated for every middle school and high school. I
034do know when our high school SRO's are out, the middle schools will cover the high school and leaves our middle schools um empty, open sometimes. Um they understand they do have allocations for SPOS's at every elementary. Right now, I'm I'm just looking at their website. They have five SPOs and they say they're filled as they're currently on their website, but we can follow that to make sure. And again, I'm just looking for because I know sometimes like if you have Shirley and Widewater or Grafton and Dixon, you know, if they had to share because they're on basically near campuses or something like that, but if you could just give us that list, that'd be great. Thank you. >> Sorry. Um, so looking ahead, I mentioned that there have been a number of deferred standards. This
035is taking into account the ones that have either not been fully implemented or have not implementation has not yet begun period. And uh I I called it a log jam and that I I I think is a fair description. Um I've split this out into three tables. Uh one uh that looks at teacher specialists, one that looks at um admin and uh student services, and the other looks at operations staff. Um and uh as you can see to if we were to fully implement those standards next year with the information we have now. So that's why there's a big asterisk of uh as Mr. White continues on his uh finalizing his projections. >> Today's the day >> um >> Oh yeah. >> Well, today is the count day. We still >> That's what I meant.
036>> Mr. White is good, but um um that uh it would be uh tremendously resource intensive. uh very expensive uh to be able to fully implement uh any of these standards um any of them individually or any of these as a category uh which you can see here >> on top of the $9 million. >> Exactly. >> Correct. just just to open the doors >> just to to add these as additional FTEES. It would be like a shock value. >> Just for for curiosity, do you have a dollar amount that goes with these? >> Uh, sure. I can give you uh I did scope a couple of specific positions that >> just to point for everything altogether. I don't have that, but I can get it to you. I can tell you just roughly a
037teacher FTE right now budgeting about $90,000 for all benefits and health. There you go. >> I was talking to somebody outside. I said I think he said 70 and I said I think it's more like >> 90 you take the mandatory employer side expenses. >> Does that include health insurance? >> So >> why would I would request if it's not going to be a lot of work just just to get dollar amount. Sure, >> that's easy. >> Yeah, that's not hard. >> So, we see what we're reaching for. >> So, I I can give a couple of examples. I I said I walked in with a couple to look at, not from this slide, but if you go to the next um regarding administration and student services for deans of students, um based on the
038board's adopted standards from 2022 and the projected enrollment of these schools for next year, we would need uh 12 deans of students um to implement that standard next year on top of the ones that are already there in our high schools. >> Right. >> So, so only seven for elementary. Is that because we're doing it by the number of students? >> By enrollment. That's correct. >> Because because when we had the conversation about deans of students, we did not say it was about enrollment. We said that it had to do with mentoring um >> future principles. And so you wouldn't necessarily >> pulling stuff off the plates so they could do their job. >> You might be looking at it in terms of where do you have a really fantastic principle to do that mentoring.
039So, it's interesting to hear that it has now morphed into a number game rather than a mentoring game. >> I think I'd argue that it's both. Um that you want the the capacity to go where the need is. This is not yes and no. You see, this is I saw I saw the smirk. >> Sounds like yes and no to me. >> Um I genuinely think it is. >> It's almost like I'm glad you asked that question. That's a great question. We haven't heard that. So, there you go. that kills me when I >> if you wait just a moment to see the outlines or something with it depends question. >> Um I do I do think that the enrollment matters because and overall enrollment as well as the nature of the student population because
040you want the staffing capacity to go where the need is but yes at the same time the deans of students position should be viewed as anticedent to school administration positions. Um they're I would call them quasi administrators and so they it it truly is in my mind of both ends. I'm just saying it was presented to me in this way and it has morphed into something else. So I'm just, you know, not this was years ago. >> No. And I'll say what I what I when I've looked at it, it looked like the adopted standard in December of 2022 was over 750 for elementary was a dean and over 900 for middle school was a dean. And so that's how I understood it was adopted in 22. >> Correct. >> Of course, now we've got
041the the change. >> Well, I was going to say, but I think these are always moving targets, right? So I I'm not sure that we can you said you have a dollar figure for this. >> Okay. >> Um that would be about $1.2 million >> for those 12 positions >> when we open the new school elementary school some relief because there'll be fewer >> the number would be higher if we didn't have two elementary schools opening. >> Right. But but the the need for if you said we need to put them where they need to go where they're needed if there's a smaller student population. It seems like there may not be as great a need. >> That's right. If we weren't opening if we weren't opening two new elementary schools, that number would be
04211. >> So, >> and what is the criteria for that for this? Because you said we have one right now. >> Correct. >> Are you counting that one? Is this seven in addition to the one that we have? No, that's uh when uh this when I ran these, it was based purely on what the standard was next year since that the one that exists right now is a an exception, an allegation of a stop budget FD. It's a stop gap, >> but it's a still a dean of students. >> It's still one of these seven, >> but it's okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. The other one that I did, >> I'm a little I'm just a little confused about that. Okay, so technically it's a teacher FTE, correct? >> But they're functioning
043as a dean of students, >> correct? Someone >> So is it a yes and a no? It's it's a dean of student. >> The individuals on a teacher question. I'm glad you asked. >> It's not. >> Thank you, Mr. On the individual's on a teacher contract. They are >> No, I'm not worried about the contract. I'm just trying to figure this out because you you got it up there on the We haven't done anything about it. It's it's on there, but then we find out Yes, we have done one little thing. >> It was a one-year exception with the intent of it goes back to a teacher FTE next year. >> Okay. So, it's only for this year. >> Correct. >> That's right. And I think but what I'm talking about here are what would
044it look like to implement standards? The one that exists now is not an implementation of a standard. It is a piece of tape over a week. >> So, school doesn't need one. They don't have an AP >> because their number is going to come down next year because they were approaching 900 which would >> be the need of Dina students next year though. >> No, not because we redistricted. Well, but there will be a need still for seven. >> I'm not looking at the >> students next year. >> I'm not looking at the enrollment uh uh figures right now. So, I don't want to say with specificity whether school does or doesn't uh need one. >> I just like things I don't like the gray just so much. >> So, we have one now, but
045it's not really one and it's going to go away next year. The one that exists now is not implementation of a standard. It's just a position that's there. But it was >> you know what it to me it is or it isn't. And I'm hearing you say it's a dean of students. >> It is a dean of students. >> Okay. All right. That's I'm going to >> for this school year >> for this year. So that's it's not going to be it's going away next year then >> unless the board in its budget funds implementation of students. >> Okay. So it's a one year only. >> Correct. So this seven are they specific schools that these are >> based on enrollment projections exceeding 750 students >> which won't come into for next year >> based
046on the current projections for next year >> with the with the redistricting. >> Correct. >> And what's the enrollment in the middle schools? 900 >> 900 900 This >> is probably an exercise from >> um the other list. >> So the other number you have is what? >> School security officers. >> Oh, good. >> Um >> so I mentioned that they have not been implemented at all at the middle school level and that uh the actual adopted standard has not been implemented yet at the high school level at least not in full. >> So to do it at both levels >> would require 28 additional schools, >> right? And how much is that? >> Because it it hasn't been done at all yet. A little over $1.3 million. >> 1.3 for 28. >> Why are
047school security officers so >> we need two and a half in every middle cost of >> So the middle school adopted standard was 500 to one and then round it up to 1.0 after that. >> We need to reook at that standard. >> Probably need that 20. I mean I can't imagine funding 20 just for middle schools. That's my question is where like what is the formula to get to 20 for middle school? What is it bas? >> It's 500 to one rounded up uh to one. Uh we have eight middle schools. All of them have more than 500 students. So all of them have at least two 16. >> Um and uh and then we based on Mr. White's current projections, we would have four middle schools that would have over a thousand students
048next year. That would trigger trigger a third of those four and back at 20. >> Okay. Okay. Are we we're going to relook at some of these? >> Yes, we're going to reook at all of them. I'm sure the retreat. >> Well, I guess what the board adopted these three years and >> uh the full set of standards has not been funded and so the question is is it still the right Northstar? That's I think the the thing that I wanted to uh summarize. There are a handful of issues that uh staff are going to be focusing on over the next uh month and months uh to resolve as we go forward into budget season uh to bring recommendations your way uh about where there may be additional changes that are necessary. Obviously, the continued
049uh review and uh revision to special education model and delivery the staffing that goes along with that. Um there's some decisions to be made with regards to our secondary program offerings. Um whether it's CGS or uh other programs uh to offer those programs in full requires some level of dedicated staffing. Do we want to put our thumb on the scale and say we are committing to that and recognizing that that has a trade-off impact on our ability to provide resources elsewhere? Um there's a matter of BLA compliance. I know the answer to this question, but the state's offering us additional money to fund positions for the LAS. >> Uh, Dr. Warner, I've always appreciated your sense of humor. >> Uh, but uh >> along with increasing the cut score, right? >> And that's right. >>
050Yeah. >> Uh, and uh, unfortunatic for a different day. >> Well, you know, the well, what the cut score implementation will look like is still very much up in the air. any any adjustment to the cut score in the middle grades will raise the need for uh interventions to a level that was not anticipated when the staffing standards were adopted in the same way that the level of a reading specialist staffing overall was not anticipated when the staffing passed. >> So, >> well, do they change the test? They're going to increase the cut score. I mean, is it is the test going to do the same? >> They changed the test and the standards and they've changed the test score. >> Okay. So, we don't know how the test was changed, right? Or have do
051we get advanced review of it? >> It was they were changed last year. So we took the test this past year. >> So they're not going to change the test again when they cut this. >> They just changed the test. >> They change the testing. >> They're looking actually they're looking at changing over four to five years is what the current >> Okay. >> And then just the last piece to acknowledge is that there are a number of grants that are lapsing. I in the round table just now Dr. Chase referenced the loss of the allin fun. consistent forms. >> So, >> um as is always the case with grant funded positions, when the grant is lapsing, you face a choice. >> Are we maintaining the position with operating funds or are we allowing the
052position to lapse? That is >> you know how I feel about >> you know how we don't have enough money for everything now. We're trying to >> my my point here is just to acknowledge that we have to make >> Are we going to get a list of these specifically? >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> I'm sorry. What' you say was >> again? I just want to make a comment on the special ed model change. >> The board was never consulted when that was changed the first time. Is it implying that the board is going to have some involvement in it? >> Well, I think the board universally has had tasked Dr. Smith when we hired him with looking at the back to base because it was such a disaster. So, >> but I believe
053she's talking about under the previous administration in developing the staffing standards, we never actually >> Yeah. Correct. >> Yeah. I mean, we just found out about it from >> teacher and principal. >> Yeah. >> But, um, so this says, you know, what are we going to do? I mean, is this >> that's a question that if we're going to have input, then we need to >> some kind of report. >> I meant to provide this as a here are questions we're going to be discussing among staff. Um, so >> I thought we were already working on that. Are we just discussing it? The back to base or >> we are we are working on it. That's why it's the at what pace are we doing this? >> Yeah. >> And and we'll get like a
054cost to vote with that base as well. >> We're also getting input from parents too. So we're we're >> different angles of this. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. >> Yes, there's there's food. I was I'm glad Miss Kai is here because if one of us had left, we would not have met forum. So, there is a there take a moment to make a plate. I sent the girls out first. >> That's good. >> They could not. >> Oh my god. >> Maya, it's Chick-fil-A. >> Yeah, I know. the microphone, please. Um, we wanted to because we've given you all a lot of information over the last month and a half and we wanted to take a moment and catch our breath with with you and see what questions you have about
055anything we've gone over so far. Um, see if there's any items that you wanted to discuss from the uh, PTO PTA meeting tonight uh, that was heard earlier. Um we did bring um and you all should have in front of you the um draft uh large capital list as well as the draft three R lists. Um and we do have uh up on the screen copies of all the presentations, all the information we've gone over from the past um few months or so. Um I started with the budget development calendar up here real quick just so everybody um has an understanding of where we're at and where we're going. Um, from a CIP perspective, um, the next, uh, meeting we'll have with you all is on the 14th in two weeks. Um, and we will
056have a more formal presentation for you at that point to go over a few more things with the ultimate goal of getting to approval in November. Um, so with that, um, we'll just open the floor up. Um, Madam Chair, I'm not sure if you want to go about this in any specific manner. Well, um I did want to as far as budget and capital improvement, >> I mean, were there things that were brought up today? Obviously, the like the emergent jagged metal in the field things are not going to be part of like our CIP budget discussion. We're going to look at those. But were there things that were brought up that were not necessarily on our radar and should be. Um, what I mentioned to Maya while I was sitting there is, you know,
057after nine years in high school, I just noticed that not every school had a a scoreboard >> and that the ones that did, they weren't being used. And I didn't know if it was for lack of function or lack of interest. Right. So to hear people say today, scoreboards. I found that >> was a middle schools, wasn't it? >> It was. >> And to that end, for schools that do have them, are they in a replacement cycle much like a playground might be where it's unfortunately one of the things that would be deferred >> because it's >> typically >> but then so and do we know why some schools have them and some don't? Were they a project of a like a past PTO that funded it and it was kind of that's how it
058got them or >> Yeah. No, great question. So that that's typical. A lot of times the um PTO's or PTAs or certain in some cases the schools will will use school specific funds to do certain improvements. Um and it's typically those types of things or the marquee signs are another popular one or sometimes playground equipment. Um, and we do try to keep an eye on that. Uh, make sure that there's some equity. Um, but to your point, we don't have a pot of funds for scoreboard replacement, per se. Now, we do have general um, funds that we put through in the PR list to do general athletic improvements, replacements. I we go through some examples, but but the long the long and short of it is it's it's we're going to focus mainly on trying
059to make sure that, you know, bleachers, right? um basketball hoops, um any kind of the major field repairs, those types of things to keep the playable surfaces working or functional. So, a lot of the uh smaller items, particular item, middle school level, um you know, scoreboard is is not going to probably hit >> within the funding. That's unfortunate. >> If if the school system has not put in that every every middle school has a scoreboard and we pay for it, then repairing scoreboards that we didn't put in doesn't seem like something that we would necessarily do, right? If if some schools have no scoreboard >> and another school had the PTA able to put a scoreboard in, I don't know that the school system would maintain that. It's um >> if they're not doing the
060same for unless they're going to give the same money to the school that didn't get a scoreboard to use for some other purpose. Right. >> Right. So there's some >> I imagine Drew will have one when we build it. We should build one with it. No, I should. >> There's some Yeah, there's some I'll say inconsistencies there just from um the way things have been done and we're trying to normalize some of that. Um especially as we have continued to move forward and PTO's PTAs add different elements to the school. Um but typically, you know, three to five years something will be maintained and then leadership changes um and it gets forgotten until we get a call one day that the scoreboard's fallen down and please come fix it. >> And you know, of course,
061we're going to do our best to try and maintain what we have at that point. >> How often do we re-evaluate projects to see if they need to be moved up on the three projects? >> Every year. So this list is the most current. >> So living document, >> correct? >> As far as what we heard tonight, I was surprised and I think Miss Healey had mentioned it as well to hear that at time they needed more laptops and chargers when didn't we just do a a major investment in laptops for middle school the whole time they're in middle school. But they were talking about not when they break. So the new one shouldn't break for a while. Well, that's why Well, she said they needed them and they need Chargers, too. And so, >>
062I'm sure you're going to look into it, but can you let us know what with >> Absolutely. Miss Johnson might be able to fill in a little bit, too, as the executive director of middle school, but you're right. We did just replace those. And I don't know if that was something maybe they heard about last year bringing up now, but happy to follow up. I I was shocked when I comment as well because not only do we have new Chromebooks and we have chargers, >> but we also have extra backup because we didn't keep the older ones that were still >> and we're pretty early so they may not have you know realized it but they're thinking that's >> okay to follow up with that, you know, that's >> And what is and what is
063what specifically are we doing as far as like um playgrounds because I know all the schools have different playgrounds again PTAs have contributed to some, some came with the building, that sort of thing. And so what is there is there a a life cycle for them? Is it order of is it order of newest to oldest or what how does that look like? >> So I just pulled up some examples here. This is in the 27. So every year we are trying to hit some of the different playgrounds. You can see in this next year we've got Garrisonville and Widewater up. Um and then it it would just continue through the list again. >> What makes that >> what's the replacement cycle? I guess 277,000 per condition or what >> the so the average um
064expected use of life is approximately 20 years. So that's the year that we try to time the replacement on. We're playing catch-up a bit still. >> Um and as far as developing the the order of playgrounds on the CIP, >> we have in-house uh playground inspections that take place throughout the year or at least once per year. So, we consulted those inspection reports, the inspector uh themselves as well as our maintenance staff. >> Okay. >> And and really vetted the order in the park. >> So, where is Kate Waller Barrett on this list for their playground? I feel like that is something we defer >> every year since I've been on the I feel like I keep hearing about it and I wasn't sure if it was one that was >> just scheduled in and
065out year or if it's something we >> both play get replaced in 2029. both playground one and two it's $718,000. >> So are those 20 year play 25 year playgrounds 20 year? >> They are more that are older than than people and and we're still anticipating a 20-year replacement cycle. >> It's amazing how much playgrounds have gone up, >> right? We're we're we have not been hitting the 20-year replacement cycle for funding reasons, right? So we're we have some that are going to get pushed further than that just because as things break like Burns had stuff break and I remember being at Monure and they had part of their playground shut down because it had broken. Obviously Monur is fairly new in the grand scheme of things. >> Kate Waller Barrett it's been closed off
066for a long long time. >> And Jason I don't know if you guys can speak a little bit. I know we talked about inclusive playgrounds or just one I think one parent talk tonight or one talked about accessibility. Can you talk a little bit about what we're doing or Matt we're doing with the newer playgrounds that we're bringing on? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. So for as far as scoping and budgeting for our playgrounds, we you we utilize uh the ES18 and 19 uh prototypes for those pro uh playgrounds. They are ADA compliant uh various levels. So we have a a smaller structure that is uh readily more readily ADA accessible, but the other larger structure for the older students is also um ADA compliant. And what we've scoped in as far as budgets go
067includes paving a a poured rubberized surface deeper into the playground to allow um accessibility enhancements deeper rather than you know that the equipment is compliant but how do you get through the mulch to get there? >> Um so we've we've really uh vetted that. >> Can you give some insight to >> I'm sorry I can't remember and I don't have my notes with me. Um, at one of the schools, one of the parents said the county came in and took away the grass and so now we have a dirt field. >> That's Hampton. >> Is that us? I I thought it was Hampton. >> Is who's the county? Like, did we do that? And did we decide to leave a dirt field? So, we have um we have agreements in place with parks and recck
068for um use and maintenance of of the fields around the around the facilities. And in some cases, um, and I'd have to check on Hampton Oak specifically. In some cases though, Parks and Wreck does the field maintenance for a baseball field, let's say. Um, so I'd like to take a specific look at that one and see what what's going on there. Oh, if you'd like to send me an email or however way you communicate with everybody, I tell everybody. But >> and you said that since parks and wreck uses some of our fields, >> how much of a partnership in taking care of our fields or things that they use? How how much are they participating with that? >> So, actually I Yeah. So, actually, we just had a really good meeting with them about
069two weeks ago, and um they actually brought up that they felt just candidly that they were um not doing as good of a job as they wanted to. I'll move it that way. Um so, >> um we had a great conversation about that. Um and I think that um with uh Patrick, Mr. Workman over there, the new director, he and I have had a good relationship so far. I am looking forward to some more collaboration. One of the things we've been talking about is the agreement between the boards on use of school facilities is fairly old. It is >> um it's very old and so there needs to be some updates there and um some updates there as well as just a refresher on >> Oh, this is what we've agreed to, right? So, um
070>> why did we send that to FAB? >> I'm sorry. Just a thought. >> Well, that was like FAB is actually a question that I had. Um, >> I'm not on Fab. >> We had a kind of a tangential conversation where we when a community group rents outdoor space from the schools, they're actually renting it from parks and wreck and therefore they are paying the fees to parks and wreck. >> Yes. So, we don't get any of that. >> That was my question. Is is that a cost and profit share or >> the way the agreement was set up in in general? Yes. There's there's a number of fees that parks and recck collects. Of course, now they're typically staffing, you know, like a a basketball event or soccer, whatever it may be. Um, but
071a lot of the the facility use fees themselves to go to parks and rec. I'm talking more specifically outdoor like obviously indoor events theater basketball volleyball is different than I'm going to go use >> not really it's still wear and tear >> in as far as staffing but we don't need to staff the school if they're just going to rent the grassy field for soccer practice >> soccer um March soccer tournament that Stephford soccer has >> they contract with us directly for that >> so there's there's different types of fees right there's the facility rental use fee. There's fees for staffing. There's fees for custodial. Um, and there's even fees for lighting and other other things. And depending on the use and the specific facility and the color of the moon that night depends on
072like who gets which fees essentially. Uh, it's it's very kind of cumbersome um to work through. So, I I think that it would definitely benefit >> update them >> to to go through and update and get some clarity. I feel like egg on my face for letting that happen for so dag on long. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry. I don't like it. Okay, I said that really good. Move on. >> Can we look up um can we pull up the CIP? >> Sure. >> Because I think that that's often conversation that we have is are we good with the order? Are we changing the order? Are we >> um >> and you do have a copy of this in front of you? I wanted the No, I wanted the glasses, but >> Oh, no. I still
073want the glasses. >> And obviously, like thankfully we have a couple to scroll down through to get to the ones that are awaiting funding. >> So, yeah, let me let me zoom in just a maybe one more click here at least so you can kind of get a little bit better view. So, obviously up at the top we have all of our ongoing and approved items um that we're working through. Uh we will be giving you some updates on the 14th on North Stafford. >> Should we change our our list to put the names of the schools? Actually, I was just thinking this >> just for when they come back. >> Yeah. >> And certainly when we present. >> Um and then you can see this is the this is the priority that we have
074immediately following that with rising star and elementary 20 falling right at the top. >> Yeah. >> Um and we talked about this a little bit um a couple weeks ago in our work session, which is you can see over here to the right the difference in our requested opening funding dates versus what the what the county has. uh we have 2030, they're at 32 for rising star and day school and then we have 2030 for for elementary 20 they're at 34. So there's some gaps there that need to be discussed and of course you know depending where some of the enrollment projections come in here over the next year as staff we're eagerly awaiting we're not going to rush Mr. quite but we do want to get those updated projections to see how it is
075going to impact and that was one of the benefits of pushing back our um CIP adoption one month is normally we're adopting and then two weeks later we get updated enrollment projections that didn't make a ton of sense so now we're going to have like two or three weeks for with new enrollment projections before we need to adopt but at least we'll have the most recent >> CIP process before when you guys had the joint working group that did worked on this >> that's not there anymore >> and supervisors weren't looking at it until there was meeting time. >> Right. So, >> well, what's depressing is when you look and you see we first asked for the new high school Hartwood in FY007 20 years ago. Yeah, the board but they did make additions to
076the high school that was it wasn't what the school board asked for but the supervisors looked at it and they said well we will we will addition do additions at schools to give us a temporary you know relief and that's one reason so it's not like nothing has been done in those 10 years >> in those 18 years longer than 10 years but but it's >> I don't think they took it seriously until 10 So, >> could you scroll down? So, are our >> Mountain View and the Colonial Forge bus parking? These are kind of like the the 5 to 10 million range. Are those the only projects we have in that kind of what we would consider a low range for CIP >> one? Yes. Critical systems, the critical systems, >> okay, >> are
077all sort of in that area, too. So, I know we like to, you know, >> yeah, I think um the bus parking >> is much like, you know, having the north theater wing in that price point sometimes to be able to maximize, >> I want to make sure they have lots of options. >> And one one thing that um Mr. and I did last year with Miss Light was we kind of sat down and we of course take take the requested order and then we sit down and we go through what their what you call the budgeting >> debt capacity >> capacity calculations and we we we will take that at that point and try to make some shifts and say all right you know what >> school board's asking for it here but if
078we shift it a year but then that allows us to bring this forward right we can bring that >> and it's not really the big projects. So, it's it's more of we look at some of these projects um like a a good example is Rising Star, right? Rising Star's got a big dollar amount to it. So, it's only going to come so far forward, but maybe um the bus parking can still fit into the budget even though it's a lower ranked priority because they have debt capacity. They don't have 90 million in debt capacity, but they have five or six million. So, >> do with the three R. >> Correct. Right. >> What can you fit in with the money? Right. We had some funds and we still do >> and so we'll um Mr.
079Tower and I actually already reached out to county staff and they're willing to do that. But they're working on they're meeting with their bond council and looking at their debt ratings and what capacity they they will have. And so they're finalizing that. I don't want to say finalize, but they're working on that over the next several weeks and then we'll meet with them. So it'll probably be before our November meeting. We'll have a little bit more information on what might be actually doable. Why is wide water critical systems after like Winding Creek and Conway is it already been done and this is a second goound with it or what what's I don't understand why it's older but lower maybe there's a more sensible reason >> right and I'll I'll let Matt pull up and t
080typically um you can pull up specifically he's working on that typically what we're doing in situations like this is we're evaluating a com a combination of things and maybe in the case of wide water that we did certain components certain parts of it and that the remainder of it might be might still be later. Um so >> so and in looking at this list assuming are all of these elementary critical system projects doable in a summer or will require longer and therefore looking at trailers. What about and of course I know there's a cost to move our trailers and repair as well as reset them and get them ready and then move them again if like a lot of expense on that I think a lot. >> But I'm looking at um like Gale Middle
081School I'm going to assume they're going to need support. Um Colonial Forge Mountain View I'm going to assume need support. But I'm just curious even at the elementary school are they going to need support? So the the answer is it depends. Um and we'll actually be talking to you another item we'll be bringing to you on the 14th will be um specific discussion. We'll have kind of the first round of uh Stafford Middle School, Brook Point and North Stafford which have some of these renovation critical system projects coming up talking about the use of modulars for for those specifically. In in that case, the the discussion is largely going to be around potentially using them at Brook Point, but not at North Stafford because at North Stafford, we have the ability after the redistricting for
082some empty classroom space to be able to shift students around. So, it depends. It also depends on the campus whether or not the campus can accommodate, you know, the modulars. U Brook Point for as tight as it is has a spot in the back. >> I need to see that. I can imagine. >> I know. I got you. um uh that that we're talking about using. So um that's something that again we'll be talking through with the board. In the case of the elementary schools, it's going to depend whenever they are funded and wherever they land. It's going to depend on does the school have any capacity in the school. Obviously we >> before we would move modulars to the site, we would look for empty classroom space in the school to shift around >>
083or if the school already has them >> or if the school potentially has them there or the site can accommodate it. So, can I circle back to the question you had, which was how do we feel about the ranking and the list and all of that? So, to me, the most part looks fine, except it's all going to come down to getting those numbers because the projections may change for >> elementary school and middle school. Like, I don't don't know if they're going to be needed as soon as we thought in the past. I mean, so we'll just have to wait and see. But what I would say is the Northstar edition, I personally would probably like to see that get moved up. Um because you know there there could be some changes. Like right
084now we leave money on the table for VPI funding and things like that because we don't have space and up in the northern part of the county we have a lot more kids um who are having to we have kids having to come down to Rising Star because there isn't enough space closest to where they are. So that's just me personally. I it's obviously everything is a board decision but if you're asking for feedback that's sort of the kind of feedback I was looking for. Well, can you >> The other thing we have to wait and see is what happens with Head Start funding. >> Can you uh also tell me the cost? >> Does the cost in here also uh encompass the moving of trailers? >> Mhm. >> It's already in these prices. >>
085We did bake a certain amount a certain u amount into a lot of the projects just as as an as an estimate. Okay. Um, and then as we're going through, as we get closer, right, we'll refine that >> that number >> for the renovation, you know, system project, not every project, but the ones where we think modulars could be used, >> right, for the >> to help expedite the project. >> Okay, thank you. I just was curious if that was evident >> with with the bus parking um with additional bus parking with Colonial Forge and Mountain View. Does this get rid of some of the buses in the Stafford parking lot or will that ever be resolved because that's not a great solution right now? >> I was just there after school today. Um no,
086I I our our hope I think would long term be to free that parking lot back up for its original use, which was the stadium parking lot until we get there. Um, and yes, these will help towards that end, but >> and Hartwood Highwood Stafford, >> correct? So, well, it's actually >> Falls Run Elementary has the new elementary school has a bunch of bus parking, so hopefully some of that can move to there. >> Run. >> Well, we'll probably be >> No, it's >> using the >> the other one. >> Yeah, >> it's not Falls Run, is it? >> Falls Run Elementary. Crow's Nest and Falls. >> Okay. Crow. >> All right. Say it. >> Well, so right now our buses are spread almost across all of our sites. So we have three or four.
087Um managing that um is a nightmare and it also creates challenges on when buses are on the road and whether they're on time. And so drivers show up. >> Correct. And so having um main bus lots lets you put one of your you know um coordinators out there um and then they they know all right you know bus the driver for bus 132 showed up today and they can check that hey they started the bus they're on the road hey bus 99 did not show up today. So like at Falls Run, we have a building with a bathroom for the drivers as well. >> Um that we'll be able to put one of our area managers or coordinators out there to start each morning and each afternoon shift to make sure that they're all accounted
088for. So right now we have we might have five buses parked at Anthony Burns and we have three or four at Colonial Forge bus loop and you know every school we're cr we're just wherever we can find them. Uh it creates challenges at those schools. every time they have an event, we're having to relocate them, >> right? >> But really, um, the biggest benefit is honestly on the operational side of of managing those buses each day. >> But so really, long story to get to, I think for that false run lot, I don't think it's going to impact Stafford High right away because we need to pull those buses out of all of our schools where we have three or four at a stop. >> We don't like that answer, do we? >> No. >>
089But it is the honest answer. >> We need our stadium. um initiative that I would love for us to consider is um to push harder for a land bank for schools with all this talk about land being bought up for major development and honestly through three schools to find land to meet our needs and to you know >> bus parking. We've got some big projects that, you know, if we're looking at a middle school and a high school that will need land of size, you know, where is that? What does that look like? >> And how do we get it? Because it's not I mean, we can't where >> to Sarah's question when she was I'm sorry, Dr. Chase's question when she was talking about um the addition at Northstar. How many trailers do we
090have at Northstar? >> Eight classrooms. So, are you talking an addition on Northstar that would get rid of those or an addition onto Northstar in addition to those >> or both? Like adding like being able to get rid of the trailers and having even more space. >> Yeah, that's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. We've and we we've looked at it both ways if I um and it's been a little while since I've looked at Northstar, so please feel free to step. >> Sure. >> U but there is we do have also the the the field right next to Northstar that we own >> and I the this the discussion has largely been using that for likely expansion and keeping the modulars open until that expanded area could be used. you know, a a
091short-term solution if we wanted to get some additional capacity at Northstar more immediately could be to put more modulars over in in that field as as an example, >> but then it gets in the way if you wanted to expand. >> That's always the trick, right? And at what point, >> so this is it sounds like the an addition onto Northstar would get rid of the trailers, but in the way Dr. Chase is also describing it could mean that you do the addition plus you have to keep them because of the growth of that program the size of the addition. >> I mean if you're doing an addition and you have enough land you could make your addition >> bigger in some cases what we've done in the high schools is make an addition bigger
092but just not utilize all the space >> like have cold dark >> or build it out until until we're ready. We started talking about doing an addition to Northstar. >> We got it. >> Yes. >> Literally almost as soon as we got it, we went we planned an addition, right? >> And then it just >> so 358 students or seats added. I think that's the number on the the CIP for Northstar 348. >> How many What does that look like in a classroom number? Just >> classroom numbers are pretty specific. >> It's like I think >> so like what does that do? I guess what does that do for the size? Is that doubling the size? Is it another >> right? Like >> I know the initial plans um I know this when we purchased
093the north building is that open field over there actually allowed almost to take that >> right and double >> place and build another one double almost double the size. Correct. Right. That's what I was trying to get at is like how many above eight would that addition? >> And it's important to remember that that heads that it's it's not just Head Start PPI, it's also early childhood special education which has much smaller side classes in the last just to be clear the 348's the existing capacity. We haven't determined what what that expanded capacity would be because there's hasn't been clarity around what the told Zy would be. So we've we've put some basic square footages on it and >> and the 348 is without the trailers. Correct. >> Correct. >> Or is that building should
094be >> Well, we're add the seats. >> No, but you've already got the trailers there, so it would be with them. >> Yeah, but this is showing the seats that we would added, which would be adding. >> No, it doesn't. >> That's what we currently have on the TV. I get it. >> No. So we never we never in all of our program capacity numbers we don't ever include >> the trailer capacity >> number I would say that those those >> because we never wanted to become told we were going to make it a trailer city so we could build new schools that's what >> it depends if they're early childhood special ed if they're used for head start or BPI >> and is it used for full day or half day It's it's just
095there's so many different programs in the Head Start umbrella. >> That's why it's so hard to figure out from a numbers is eight classrooms, >> 25% of the school, 50% of the school like what like >> and it depends on their enrollment what it looks like. >> Yeah. >> So, and um because early childhood special education it starts out relatively low but by the end of the year they are at full capacity, >> right? Because they've done the child. How many classrooms are in the structure itself without you know I thought it was like 20 >> 20 so eight is almost half I guess that's what I'm just trying to figure out if you get the bus parking at Run and you get the bus parking at Forge and you get the bus parking at
096Mountain where else >> did you want it I mean where would it need to go to allevate >> the next targeted area high school 7 >> would be to the construction of high school 7 at a bus Because that the the one >> so nothing at North and nothing at Brook. >> Well, North has a bus. >> North and Brooks >> where >> in the very parking. >> Oh, here's a football field. >> Okay. Um, but if I recall right, and I'd have to go back and break out a table we made last year, uh, but I believe once we get to Forge and Mountain View, it pretty much breaks even or comes real close and then high school 7 starts to actually get us into more of a normal trajectory overhead. >> So, the
097the move of buses off the stadium parking at Stanford is is pretty much a no-go. You're just being nice. >> Not until we get Not >> yes Susan and my statement was really about the fall run lot that's not going to eliminate the need for staff high once we start adding the other lots then we can start talking about how we can consolidate even if it's pulling off half of the buses from this stadium parking lot maybe it's not >> the um high help >> no talking part of it is that the where it would locate the buses is not particularly close to where the students are >> and staff >> because the first because the first run is from staff High School. So, they're what they're trying to do is get every the buses
098where they're first going to all be leaving from, which is the high schools or because they'll be coming to them. But >> if they can have a place where all of the area coordinators come and do the roll call, make sure all the buses start. >> Well, some of the buses Stafford High is losing 500 students. So, some of those buses should be able to go to the new high school >> Where the students are, >> Right. >> Maybe. presumably, >> but they just said no Susan to be. So, >> well, again, the new the bus parking lot though with Falls Run will accommodate 80 80 buses a year. >> So, we would >> Sounds like a lot of buses. >> So, I know you you talked about Northstar Edition if that's something we can
099definitely do some more work and bring it back to you. I know we have another you have another work session on um October 14th and then it's and then >> I guess I want to see some numbers that validate >> right what And for me, right? And for me, it's I just have to be able to reason. >> For me, I said if it looks like >> the projections change in some way, right? We, you know, >> but I'm also still curious about why we choose the order of these elementary schools based on systems. Is it because of the age of the system? Did you do a test on the system to say even though this school is younger, it system is not able to keep up? Or that's what I'm just trying to figure
100is it what that order from. >> Conway is newer than Brent, >> right? >> So it's a it's a combination of the type of system that's in there. >> Okay. Okay. >> The um whether or not certain components have been replaced in certain systems. >> Okay. >> Just for various reasons over time. The overall aging condition obviously is another big part of it. And then you want to add anything else that you typically >> Yeah. conditions experience. So meeting with our staff what what schools are presenting more problems that will not blended with the hard data that >> okay >> not for this year but for the next year CIP could we get a list that shows the percentage of the systems that have been replaced in each school so that we know like for
101example B point 75% completed or so we have some idea where we are in that >> like if it's phase three of five or >> right so that we could get some idea what we've been able to get done and and where we still need to go. >> I I think we could produce at a >> I'm not worried about it for this year's CIP, but for like next year's CIP if it's something we get some kind of evaluation on. >> So, what I I mean, honestly, the the the cleanest way to do that is through the facility condition assessment process that we do every five years because we get a >> okay >> a hard stake in time. We're actually coming up on another round of those here in the next year or two.
102Um, but we can certainly um provide if there's specific questions. I know Brook Point came up tonight. Um, we could talk about here's where we are in that phase and I think the final phase that's next summer for Brook Point in terms of a lot of the HVAC work and then we'll wrote roll right into the interior. >> The part that she was telling us earlier is a problem. That's the part that's left to do. >> Yeah, there's >> Yes. So there's there's a there's a number of units within the classrooms themselves really hard. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's like I think some of whitewater's been done, but I don't know how much. And >> when we get the data on Northstar, can can we get some kind of a um and in
103and analysis of the benefit of rebuild versus continuing with the modulars? I mean, conceptually I I get it, but in terms of cost, >> you know, in in terms of the the expenditures and where it's going to fit in this this ranking, you know, it would give me a better sense of should this be a higher priority than than something else. So, you know, are we going to be able to deliver a better program or, you know, if if we wanted strictly to increase the capacity, you know, how much would we want want to increase it by? because at least those students aren't there very long. >> I mean maybe some of the the the early childhood may be there a few years but but the other ones it's it's kind of a >> you
104know quick turnaround >> in in in the program. >> Happy to work and see what we can put together. I know we're coming back in two weeks but let me see. >> Well, it doesn't have to be in two weeks just >> if you wanted to make changes in the order. I'm thinking a long term. >> Yeah, we're going to make changes. I don't think that we're going to make any changes on this particular >> No, I don't I don't plan that. But but just in in terms of a long range planning. >> Absolutely. >> Would it better to do five or six of these lower dollar ticket, you know, items for or to do that? >> Yeah. So, does the data say that information or does our data enrollment say you need to do
105something a little sooner and then maybe again going back to adding more modulars, trailers, learning cottages, whatever. Um, is what we do. >> Learning cottages, >> right? Because the Head Start is pretty much voluntary on their part, >> right? >> But Head Start is fixed. But early childhood special ed is not exactly and I would just note at our elementary schools we put the fifth fourth and fifth graders in the learning cottages. We don't put our youngest learners in the learning cottages and yet >> but they don't always go the same all the same places. >> Just an observation >> in Northstar we were able to put bathrooms in those modulars. So they are actually pretty nice complex >> and they don't go to art and music and all those things too. >> Okay. I
106have a question. Sure. >> You were I just because I had excused myself. Did you um you mentioned like in one sentence and I didn't know if you talked about when I was gone. Um you said we were going to find out more information once they talk with the other side once they talk about their bond rating or whatever. How is them losing the AAA bond going to is that going to affect us with our what we can do >> supposedly? That's what that's that was my understanding of watching the work session. So, but I was watching it at 11 night. I was tired. It might have been I don't know. It might have been outraged. >> It said it said that they were double. It said they're double and but when they factor in
107um the future data center revenue because you know we have these ones that are coming >> that goes that will will bump it back up to >> it could have um your >> your interest rate that you would borrow at. >> Yeah. But we so but if the interest rate is affected negatively, it doesn't mean we would not be able to borrow as much. Correct. >> Um well, it means our total debt service then goes up because we're paying more in interest. >> Although we could borrow under the VPSA which has nothing to do with the county. >> That's also true. >> That doesn't the county's bond rating doesn't affect our >> It does not. So we could still but but the standalone bond rate that we because we've been borrowing so much money, it's
108more beneficial to use standalone borrowers. We are using the county's um AAA bond rating. So, we're able to borrow at a cheaper rate than the BPSA bond pool bond borrows, >> but we have been doing bonds. >> Um, not for a couple of years, actually. >> Oh, really? Because it's low. >> No, that's what I >> So, it is a VPS. It is VPSA, but it's a standalone. So, we're using the counties, but we still go through their vetting process. >> I love it. >> Right. Because I just because I was looking at I was looking at the budget from the county and it had BPSA bonds. So then you're telling me we're not doing that. >> But it's standalone. >> The pool bond is >> I don't realize how much of this talk we
109have. >> Until three or four years ago, >> I know we had it. >> In my 12 13 years here, we had never done a standalone body. Now we're doing a standalone because we're borrowing. We're doing such larger projects. >> I think we've done it before your time. >> That's why I said in my 13 years, not in your 25 years. >> I thought it was 27. 26, >> whatever, >> 37. >> Once you hit 10, you know, it's all great. >> I do um I do want to just take a minute because a lot of one thing that we added this year was pretty detailed descriptions of all of our three R projects. So, I'm just going to flip through these if they've been attached to um our our previous um >> yeah, I
110think it's agenda items. So, we added the pictures, but >> anybody wants to see them? >> That's great. We didn't want to print all new copies. They've been we've done it in the past, but they are attached to the agenda. So, every project on is it every project on the three list? All the major ones first three years have have detail with pictures and then we go to year to the fifth year. >> This is ridiculous. Can I keep mine? >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> It's all it's all >> and we'll we'll send out we have something similar actually more. It's expanded for our large capital items. It was in last year's CIP because it's the same items, but we'll give we'll share it again this year. >> Once we pass this, why
111don't we send it to all our PTO um people? So, they I think they may have an interest in seeing where their projects are and and maybe getting, you know, the big picture >> or even understanding when that their project was done because of >> Right. I I think they might find it interesting. So, I mean, electronically won't process anything. >> That's great. Yeah. And and we have when we visited the advisory committees gone out to visit um the PTOs, we've tried to present here specifically with your school too, >> right? >> But yeah, >> huge shout out and thanks to Mr. Towns in here who really took on this project and was able to update. >> I know. I know. >> I was going to give him a go. >> Oh my gosh. Did
112the firework come see that? I had to replace tiles. That was a good um whatever that thing was. >> So, I'm sure that this is going to be an ongoing conversation particularly over the next couple of weeks. Um we do have closed session. >> Yeah. So, get everybody get out. >> Oh my gosh. >> Hey, you're free. >> Oh yeah. >> Can they Can they go home? >> When am I supposed to read my >> Are they dismissed? False. >> I think >> I need a couple of them for close session. >> I need a witness of human or session. >> She can read the diagram. Well, actually, hold on. Hold on. You you undo the close session thing. I'm sorry. Okay. So, your motion and then >> have a great evening everybody. >> She
113need to read it first. >> Grab a cookie on your first >> rarely. You better run and get one. No, I didn't. >> Sorry. I don't need one. >> I don't need it either, but it was really good. They are good. >> My doctor told me the other day I need to cut back my sugar carbs. >> Who told you that is being doctor? >> I didn't know we were still doing science. >> Find a new one. >> I am going to find one to fit every idea. Just find a new doctor. >> Every mother's name is doctor. So >> Rebecca might have >> put doctors on the end instead of the front. That's a problem. >> I'm just saying got gloves to he said if I keep eating so much sugar like >> I
114want to hear that. So >> I'm not there yet. >> It's not just it's just a statement. The next bill the next item we will be moving towards is our close session. >> All right. I'd like to go home sometime tonight. >> Let people know that I there are two items that we will be discussing in close session and I will be recusing myself from the first. >> Okay. Now I go. >> Yes. >> No. >> I move to Wait. No. Sorry. I'm tired. I move that to protect its bargaining position or negotiating strategy, the school board convene a closed meeting at this time pursuant to section 2.2-3711A. No. 30. Yes. I'm apologize you guys. I'm really tired. >> Put your glasses on. >> I don't have no glasses. 3711A. They're dirty. Three of the
115code of Virginia to one discuss and or consider off-site easement acquisitions associated with the school construction project. And two, discuss and or consider a potential acquisition and or disposition of real property to resolve a boundary line encroachment at an elementary school site. >> Second. Please >> in favor. >> I think it's the exhaustion, not my eyeballs. >> All right, get out. >> Community, I got answers, resources, and um >> dirty glasses. >> Okay, >> clean her pair. Motion to certify. Here we go. Pursuant to section 2.2-3712 of the code of Virginia, I move that the closed meeting held by the school board on September 30, 2025 be certified by adopting the following resolution. Now therefore, be it resolved that the school board of Stafford County, Virginia, hereby certifies that to the best of each member's
116knowledge, one, only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements were discussed in the closed meeting to which this certification resolution applies, and two, only such public business matters as were identified in the motion convening the closed meeting were heard, discussed, or considered by the board. Second, >> Dr. Chase, >> agree. >> Miss Guy, >> say agree. >> Agree. >> Miss Hallstead. >> Here. >> Oh, sorry. Yes. Miss >> Healey. >> Yes. >> Miss Randall >> here. >> Miss Sigman. >> Yes. For the portion I participated in. >> And Dr. Warner. >> Yes. >> And I'm sure you have a motion passes. >> Is there any action coming out of close session? >> Yes. I move that the school board authorize staff to make an offer to purchase an off-site easement associated with the
117school construction project on the terms as discussed in the closed meeting and to return to the school board for final approval of the negotiated contract terms. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> And I am abstaining. >> Thank you. >> Because of my I did not participate in that um portion of the close meeting. >> All right. I have a second motion. I move that the school board authorize staff to make an offer to pay for a boundary line adjustment at an elementary school site on the terms as discussed in the closed meeting and to return to the school board for final approval of the negotiated contract terms. >> Second. All in favor? >> Any opposed? That motion passes unanimously. We're adjourned. >> Thank you. Thank you. Good night. >>
118Good night.