4/29/25 - FCPS Governance Committee Meeting

001All right. Good afternoon. The April 29, 2025 regular meeting of the Fair County School Board Governance Committee will now come to order. Dr. Anderson has submitted a written request to attend this afternoon's meeting virtually due to a personal conflict as she has a family emergency and is attending this afternoon's meeting from Anadell, Virginia. All those in favor approving Dr. Anderson's request, Miss Sismerheiser, Miss Mayor, and myself. That's unanimous. It's approved. Dr. Anderson, can you check your mic? Good afternoon all. Good afternoon. We can hear you. Thank you. Miss Dixit's absent today. Okay. We will now vote to approve the minutes of the March 18, 2025 and April 1, 2025 meeting of the governance committee. Thank you. All right. Seconded by Miss Marin. And just to clarify, that motion is with leave for the clerk to

002make grammatical and formatting changes. Yes. Okay. Perfect. So the motion on the table is that the governance committee approve the minutes from March 18, 2025 and April 1, 2025 with leave for the clerk to make grammatical and formatting edits. All those in favor, Miss Eismerheiser, Miss Mayor, and myself and uh Dr. Anderson. Yes, I think so. That's all four of us. All right. Motion passes. All right, we're going to start with policy 1.03. Policy 2232, student attendance at school. Call in Dr. Reed for item 1.03, student attendance at school. Thank you, Miss Lady. Um, the memo is fairly short. Um, essentially, uh, the changes to this policy, including adding a philosophy section outlining the definition of chronic absenteeism and the inclusion of both excused and unexcused absences. Um, so, additionally, the title for section 7

003has changed the word pro procedures to policy. Um and it's recommended that the proposal under section 7 and the steps included in the proposal be moved to the regulation. Um and then additionally VSBA policies, compulsory attendance options um and JED student absences are attached so it's ready for your review. Anyone like to comment on the policy? I have my hand up, Miss Lady. Okay, Dr. Anderson. Sorry, I was just trying to get my camera on. Thank you for this information. Just a couple of things. Um, under and just generally, I mention this all of the time. I I'd like for us to get to some sort of consensus as to whether or not we're going to be including parents, guardians, caregivers. So, I wanted to raise that. uh but more substantially under philosophy. I wonder

004if we benefit by adding a sentence at the end of the philosophy section that essentially states that in a 180day school year, 18 days of absences will result in chronic in a chronic absenteeism designation. Um, the reason why I I want to uplift that, it's because very often 10% doesn't become very concrete at times to our families. And as I say over and over again, this is our communication to the public and our directives to the superintendent. I think that might be a good consideration just to make it more concrete. That 10% is not necessarily what people think it is. Um, so that's one. Um, should I stop here? Should I go on to the second piece? You can finish. Okay. Um, on page three where we have the dismissal dismissal precautions. Um, I wonder

005if we just need to have kind of a more high-level statement because this seems pretty procedural and since many of the other very specific howto's were moved into the regulation, I wonder if the same should be provided for much of the dismissal precautions. And I believe those are my two statements um on this so far. Thank you, Miss Marin. Well, I agree with Dr. Anderson's first comment about including in philosophy the uh chronic absenteeism uh trigger. So, I support adding that kind of language there. I think um the comment also about dismissal I mean precautions really what we're talking about is it's the procedures but we want to let people know that we're not going to release their children without the exact meeting what we have as the rule. I already thought what's there was

006kind of repetitive. So, I'm fine to have that be a tighter section that um you know just talks about and I even wondered if the procedure is that I thought it was that par that students can only be released to the emergency person or person listed in CIS. So, if there's something else like a neighbor can come by. I don't even know if that's allowable, Dr. Reed, but if so, do they come in with a note or does the parent call? like and that might be a regulation. But again, if are we allowed to our children are allowed to leave with people not listed in CIS as their allowable, you know, person? Do you know? No, we're not. Only the emergency contact persons on a student's file would be authorized to um authorize the release

007of a student either to themselves or to someone else. But there that has to go through those people. I don't know how to explain that. But a neighbor just can't show up without the school confirming that the neighbors coming on behalf of one of those parent, guardian, or caregivers, whatever the language is that the board chooses. But whoever's on that emergency contact would be the sole arbiter of release. So that's what I think is important to say is that one, we're not going to release any student unless they're with two, that person who's already listed in CIS or their design. Those are the po most important things I think the family needs to understand and then everything else could be procedural. So I do agree with Dr. Anderson's input there. The other comments I had

008was I I think it's good that we are and I think we talked about this last time adding in for the mental health as an excused absence, but I do know that and I had a parent ask me about this recently. If the parent is saying, "My child needs a mental health day and they're up to 15 or 16 and now they're starting to rack up unexcused absences." I think it's important to qualify that while a parent or guardian may say my child's taking a mental health day, unless it's um backed by some kind of medical note, even if it's a social worker note, it is going to be dained as an unexcused absence. And I get that fairly often, that request, the students taking a mental health day, they don't have an approved doctor's

009note. Well, that right now that is an unexcused absence in our system. So is this where we clarify how we are going to ask guardians to justify or not that their student is taking a mental health day. So that's a question I don't know if Dr. Reed do you want to answer or we could just keep it for discussion where and I apologize from it. It's in um uh section rule 4A the new language third sentence says so we're allowing it right but you know if it's a medical procedure or it seems like when we when families are asked to provide medical as the reason then they say we need a doctor's note and if they're doing that for mental health they may not have a doctor's note and so these families are upset that

010their their child is being unexcused, having an unexcused absence. So, I'm saying if we're going to put in here that that is an acceptable allowance, well, what is acceptable proof or justification? So, I think in in 4A, there's not a requirement that says that a doctor's note is required. You know, it's if the in the parents judgment, uh they need a mental health day. I believe based on this policy that would be sufficient. I think there may be cases when it's multiple mental health days that a school might say we would you know this seems to be a larger issue and we would you know appreciate um a professional mental health uh individual certifying that you know that that they're supporting your student. Uh so I but I don't think you know if there are

011one or two days for mental health days that there's a requirement uh for a a physician's note or a you know a counselor note or so forth. Well if I could just follow up I mean that may be a very reasonable path forward but right now the schools must listed as an unexcused absence. That's what I have emails from parents saying my daughter is now on the 15th day of you know if we're at the year of a mental health and it's being counted as an unexcused absence. So if you want to have it happen as you explained it sounds like something needs to change in how it's being logged. I can check into that and I could show you the email I had that might help us further look into that. All right. I

012I do think that um when we think about what I know principles are wrestling with is that both excused and unexcused absences count towards chronic absenteeism. So even if a student has 15 excused absences in the first 150 days, 15 that's 10% of the school year to that point and that student would be considered chronically absent even though they were all excused. And that's where we have had principles say it's hard to get parents to understand that um that going on a trip or taking a family vacation or fill in the blank even though a parent excuses it still counts against the school for chronic absenteeism. So while so I I think that that's in fact last year when we did the or maybe it was two years ago we did some checking at some

013of our high schools and we were surprised to find that one of the reasons for our chronic absenteeism being so high after COVID was actually our students averaging if you recall I I'm going to paraphrase but data 3.0 0 and above and who um were students in general in good standing because we had a vision I think of students that perhaps were struggling academically and so forth not coming to school. But that was not the case. In fact, that the group that had accelerated their absences were actually students academically performing above average whose parents were saying they need a break here and there. Um and so but it still counts against the school in terms of chronic absenteeism. I think that we want to try to I think the reason the 10% was listed um

014or 10% or more is because at any point in the year we want to define even for a 100 days in if they if a student's missed 10 days we don't want to wait till they miss 18 days before they're called chronically absent because at 100 days having missed 10 or 12 puts them in that category and would make them eligible for some of our attendance interventions like um extra programs during break times or Saturday or after school. So, I did I just think that was strategically named and I probably should have done a better job of explaining that from the get-go in the changed language. Missiser, do you have anything to add? Okay. Um I'll take my turn. I um I I agree with Dr. Reid. I think that I'm not saying we can't

015put an example of the mathematical equation here at the end of philosophy. Um, but I also think 10%'s pretty easy to calculate. Um, but I would fear putting it as 18 days out of 180 because as she indicated it the clock starts the first day. You know, you miss two days of the first 10 days, you're chronically absent. Okay? So, we need people to understand it's 10% of the number of days of school. But if we need to add something that clarifies that at some other point, I'm not opposed to it. Um, in terms of the mental health challenges, I think that people just need to understand exactly what Dr. Reed just explained. It doesn't matter at the end of the day whether something's excused or not excused. Quite frankly, there was a time when

016we graded behavior. There was a time when something was excused. You didn't you weren't eligible to make up what you missed. Um, but we don't do that anymore. So if whether it's excused or unexcused, you're eligible for makeups for what you missed on the day you weren't there. Um so I understand parents getting in the weeds. I will just say this that I certainly don't want to be a school that says Robin Lady needs a mental health day today because I told my mom like I'm pretty kept up on things and I just need I need to go get a pedic. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but there are people who have real mental health issues. And I don't I don't and that's that it's important that schools know when that's going on. And

017I think that's what they're naming here. And when they know that that's what's going on, I don't think parents are coming up against situations where it's not excused because most of us are, you know, talking with private therapists or we understand we're in a partial day treatment. We understand things that are going on. So, um, again, I'm glad it's named in here because it wasn't prior. So, I'm glad it's named. Um, the other thing from Dr. Anderson, I mean, from both Dr. Anderson and and Miss Marin, you you want them to name the emergency care card under dismissal precautions or you want dismissal because I think procedurally it says a formal checkout system is maintained at each school. So, I think that's the operationalized part of it. I'm comfortable with what's written, but if you

018want clarity in the first sentence, principal not release a student during the school day to any person not authorized on the emergency care card issued, right? If we want to name the emergency care card, which is which is captured in CIS, I'm okay with adding that. So, I guess the last thing I'll say is I'm okay with this policy as it's written, but I can also do some slight but you know adjustments if that's what people are asking for. Um, Mr. Seismore, just really quickly on that last topic, naming the emergency care card, is there ever a situation where a parent gives ver, excuse me, verbal consent to release some a child to someone not on that card? Are you saying a verbal consent? Well, yeah. Or an email. I'm just I'm thinking of a

019situation where there's an emergency and everyone on the emergency care cart isn't available and a parent can say, "Hey, they're all available." And just my concern is if we name it, does that take that away? Do we allow that if there's ever a situation where I don't know, let's say, you know, both parents are named on the card, both parents are out of town, and the neighbor's also out of town who's named and the kid needs to be picked up and taken to the hospital. Is there a situation where a stu a family member or the parent might say in an email so there's a record of it. I give permission for Miss Lady to pick up you know little Joe and take him to the hospital. Is that something that we allow or not?

020Yes, ma'am. I believe we would allow that. The the point is that we just want to make sure we make contact with somebody who's on that emergency list and life happens. Yeah. We just want to make sure that that contact has given clear direction on how they want um the situation managed for their child. So I might be uncomfortable naming the card itself, but something I think the language here is fine. So that's just I'm fine with that. Dr. Anderson, do you want to go back? Yes, please. Um Oops. Okay. Um I I think there was a misunderstanding regarding my statements about dismissal precautions. I just thought that whole section was a little bit too prescriptive and it was the howto which I believe should live in the um in the pro in the regulation.

021What I was my advocacy was for a highle statement which essentially could be that first um sentence of students are released only on request and authorization of a parent or guardian. I think that pretty much speaks to what our expectations are for the policy. Everything else I think could live in the procedures which are the regulations. I did not have any commentary regarding name cards. Um because as somebody who released many a child over these years um we do go beyond those that are named in the card. But that was not my comment or my advocacy. It was just to remove what seems procedural and to have a highle statement which I think is satisfied by that very first um sentence in the second paragraph under that section. And then um I did send some

022language to you all. I just emailed it to add um that additional statement. And I do understand as we keep going, you know, a child could be chronically absent at any time, but still having some sort of very clear picture, I I think would be very helpful to families. So, I did send some language that I would like to make a motion for in just a little while. Um, but I did have one more clarification because I thought the conversation around this was different. Dr. Agreed. Suspensions are considered to be unexcused absences and are counted towards chronic absenteeism. Let me check. I know in the state I came from that was not true. They were counted as excused absences. So, let me find out here real quick. Thank you. Because in section three, which is

023the philosophy, that final sentence says excuse absences, unexcused absences, and suspensions. If suspensions are part of are part of well count towards unexcused absences and chronic absenteeism, I think we have another can of worms there that can be potentially um be brought to our attention by families whose children are suspended. Let me check on that. Sure. While you do that, can I make my motion to add the 180day language as the final sentence to the philosophy section? I just responded to your, if you want me to be clear, I just responded to your email with a different idea. I don't want it to be 180 because that's the end of the year. I said, for example, at 50 days, if a student's miss five, they're chronically designated chronically absent. I want to back it up

024so people understand it's a snapshot in time as we move through the year. And I would be fine with that just so long as we have something that delineates such um I'm just pulling it up. I didn't have that screen up. 50 days. Yeah, I I'm fine with what you have um amended. Any other comments on that? You have a second or you want to comment, Miss Mayor? I have a comment. So, I mean, I love that this is an example of why it's important to talk about these things because um we're going to codify this. And regarding unexcused and excused, I've had staff in the past advocate to take a similar approach when it comes to their leave. You know, they have sick leave and then they have other leave. And staff in the

025past have advocated to say, "Just give me my bank of leave and I'll use it as I'd like as I'm a professional." And so that aside, if it doesn't really matter if it's excused or unexcused, we should stop asking people to delineate. And that would really further make the case that any absence from school, even when you need to, is still something to be used very sparingly. And by continuing to say to people, it's excused. It's pointless because and then the the philosophy really indicates what Miss Lady is talking about which is basically you know throughout the year if at any given time you're missing 10% of the days of school you are you know your kid is chronically absent. So maybe we don't have an unexcused absence piece. And that would really need to

026though I think necessitate a campaign, an education campaign for families, which I would think would be good to do at the start of the year, not at this point. So maybe this goes into effect for the next school year or whatnot, but I think it's an important stake to put in the ground at this time. I'll I'll stop there on that when I do on that while I wait for Dr. Reed to give me my answer. I think Miss Mayor has made a very very strong point because I have spent years explaining to parents why they both count because they figured if it's excused then it's okay. So I I I definitely would like to pursue that statement um a little bit but let's please just let me know since I can't see when Dr.

027Reed has a response for me. Yeah, Dr. I don't know if you want to respond now, but I'm happy to hold my other questions if anyone else wants to talk about this. So, you know, I think this is one of those age-old questions in education, right? Because there's always an argument. We think it's unexcused. Someone thinks it's excused. I it the delineation may not matter to the state in regards to determining chronic absenteeism rates. It does however give parents the authority to make decisions about attendance for their student. Uh and there are other activities that are often predicated on excused or unexcused absences. Um you know you lose privileges to participate in other activities, sports, plays, bands. I mean there a lot of things are predicated on making sure that um students are in attendance

028and not quote unquote truent or skipping school. um you know if you have to have your orth your orthodontic appointment that is different than missing the bus and carousing around the community for the morning. So I think there is a space where we have to be there are some things excused and there are some things that are unexcused. It's an imperfect system but it does give parents the authority to say you need to go to school, right? And that when we think you're at school, you better be at school. Um and I think it's important that parents retain that um decisionmaking uh and where we struggle when particularly with younger children who can't get themselves to school when it's the parent that's not getting a child to school. Obviously schools intervene differently. But I I

029do think there's a space for excused and unexcused even if they both count in the state database. That that's another great point. Um but then I will say there was one um you had said just a few minutes ago in the conversation something about you know if a child is medically out and then they or has a mental health issue and they call and they need to kind of it was like they needed to justify to the staff that it's still excused and that makes me uncomfortable because it's a private matter. If it's medical for whatever reason the parent said it's medical that's enough. So, how do we get away from that subjectivity of a parent or caregiver having to explain? Um, and I'm not saying they need to have a doctor's note. I mean,

030I remember during co that was very um overwhelming, but I and maybe this goes in the regulation, but again, these are just things I'm hearing from families that come up and there's murky areas that cause some grief. So, I think it is probably more appropriately placed in the regulation, which is sort of the how we get to the what the board expects. And um I do think that it often comes down to numbers. Several mental health days that don't represent 10% of the school year um likely are going to receive less attention. But if if the mental health days or any medical days or any days become more of a pattern than not, I think it's we expect our schools, our counselors, social workers and so forth to, you know, work with families to support

031a better attendance pattern because we know in general better attendance is going to support more learning in the classroom. So I I think it's not the ability to take the day, it's more so how many days and is that becoming the default pattern versus coming to school being the default pattern? Miss Seismariser, just very quickly, don't teachers, well, my experience is some teachers rely on knowing whether excused or unexcused to allow for makeups of tests and assignments as well. So, I think that would be an impact if we stopped keeping track of which ones are which. Yes, ma'am. That that was my point in terms of other decision making that are predicated on that distinction currently. So I think what's on the table now is a motion to add under uh philosophy uh an additional

032final sentence that says for example comma 50 days into the year if the student has missed 5 days comma they are designated as chronically absent. Is there a second or an edit? Yeah. I I think I like your percentage analogy, you know, just like so 10% means chronic accident for example. Is that what you did? Okay. Yes. And I I agree with that. Okay. I think Miss Anderson Dr. Anderson seconded. Okay. Dr. Anderson gave seconded that. Who is the mover? Well, I brought the motion so I guess you can't I can't move it. Okay. I'll bring the motion. I will move it. I will move as amended in the email that Miss Lady Dr. Agreed. I just wanted to clarify uh Dr. Anderson the question on suspensions and suspensions are excused absences. So this sentence

033which looks a bit like a run-on sentence includes excused, unexcused and comma and suspensions but suspensions are characterized as excused because they're not in the hands of a parent to determine. And do suspensions Dr. read count towards chronic chronic absenteeism. Yes, ma'am. Okay, that's a different conversation right there, but um thank you for that answer. Um so here's the question then and I know we have a vote on the table. So I Miss Lady, if we could let the vote go on because I do have a question that piggybacks to the response I just received from Dr. Reid. Sure, I'll call the question. Thank you. Question's been called. All those in favor of the verbiage on the screen that has been added under philosophy, raise your hand. Miss Marin, Miss Seismore, Dr. Anderson and myself.

034That's unanimous. It passes. So yes, back to Dr. Anderson. Thank you. So Dr. Reed, if you're saying that suspensions are part of excused absences, do we need to have it delineated as provided under philosophy or could we just stop the period at excuse absent unexcused absences? That's the will of the board. I mean, you could determine that one way or another. it. I think in the regulation we would want to make sure staff understood that suspensions are excused and do count towards chronic absenteeism. It just see Thank you for that. It just seems to be standing alone as a third category here because if it's under excuse absences, I I guess my question is what would be the risk to not having it be added in the philosophy section? I I don't think there's a

035risk. I think it's a preference. I think as long as it sits in the regulation and our practice, then that's sufficient. And I would also submit that we need to just end that period at ex um unexcused absences because it just raises I think more inquiries than it needs to if it's a third um bucket. Miss Maron, I agree with what Dr. Yansen is saying. something. I'm just wondering though if we can um pause for a second and go back to the exercise of us trying to get um a more consistent review approach. So like there are these bigger pieces like the ones we just talked about and then there's smaller editorial things that are important. They're not just copy edits, right? Like in section B2 it says, you know, uh second the first full

036paraphase says, you know, when a parent provides an acceptable reason. Okay. Well, reason per the above section. Well, maybe that's more of a copy edit, but for some of these things, like can we agree to say this section needs to be, you know, tightened or whatever? And then just is it the clerks that do that tweaking? Like there's some things or like um the part about releasing a student only to someone designated insists. Really, what it should be that language should be whatever it is verbatim insist. if it's emergency card or emergency contact or whatever it is, right? Like I'm trying to separate out the the words smmithing at the table like can we think about how in the future like categorize that stuff so we could focus on the meat of things. You know

037what I'm saying? I understand the question. However, if it's not Wordsmith the way each individual member likes it, we're gonna be back at the table. So I understand like I'm going to say like I'm comfortable with what you just stated like principles do not release a student during the school day to any person not authorized by the student's parent or guardian period. The parent or guardian fills out the emergency care card is what goes in as designated on the student emergency whatever it is. But I wouldn't do that because of the point that there have been situations where someone not designated on the emergency care card actually is who you release the child to. It could be a grandparent. There could be a tragic thing that happened in the family and the people in the

038emergency care cart can't come. But you know, you you you know what I mean? Like there are situations where we have released someone to someone authorized by someone on the card, but not to someone on the card. But again, we could just say that and say what I'm getting at is I don't want to call it whatever it is here, the emergency care card, and it's technically called something else insists. You know what I'm saying? Like I there's a time to be precise. Um, I guess too it's just some of the other But I'm agreeing with you, which is why I don't want I don't want to name CIS or ECC. That's fine. I guess so. I agree with what Dr. Anderson is saying that it shouldn't be and suspension, but I don't want us

039to spend more time now figuring out where a period goes or whatever, right? Like, so does that go to the clerk and then does that come back to us for a final review and then it moves on to action? Like, so I don't know if we need to decide this very second. we could decide the end of the meeting. But again, these is like an overall process. How are we going to do this business? Um because we also shouldn't have acronyms in here. It shouldn't say VDOE or VA code. Everything gets written out. If it's an acronym, it's defined at first use. That's just standard AP stuff. So, all right. Well, so one step at a time here. So, I'm hearing from Dr. Anderson a motion. I think you're seconding that says uh including excused

040absences and unexcused absences, period. delete and suspensions. That is correct. Okay. So, I have miss I can't make motions to vote. They told without objection. Does everyone agree with the motion? Thank you. Without objection, does everybody agree with the motion as edited on the screen as well? But you have to go up a page. Seeing no other further comments, I will go ahead and call the question. That's No, that's what we do in our full board meeting. So, I'm happy to just confirm. Call for a vote if there's no other comments. I'll call for the vote. I took out and Okay. So, the new terminology is on the screen. All those in favor, Miss Marin, Miss Lismerheiser, Dr. Anderson, myself, it passes. Point of order real quick. Yes. Just to go back to the car.

041I I do believe if there's no one else to speak, you can say, "Seeing there's no other speakers, I'm going to call for a vote on the motion." Okay. Thank you. So, the only other thing I've heard us talk about in here is dismissal precautions. So, I'd like to actually And Miss Lady, my first question regarding caregivers, are we going to make that part of the vernacular or leave that alone? I just need to have some sort of resolution. I think that we're leaving that alone until we can have a full board discussion and then it might be something that is blanketed. We just approve that we go through and make that change in every policy as opposed to v voting on every individual policy. Does that make sense? It does. Can you give it

042doesn't have to be right now, but if you can give some direction as to how will it get to the full board and the timetable for that? Well, let me ask this question. We need to come to consensus as a governance committee is how we want that worded. And then once we come to consensus as a a governance committee, then I think we can just put it on a consent agenda. Missheiser, I would suggest we make a motion that we make a blanket statement that whenever we refer to parents, you know, parents, guardians, it says parents, guardians, and caregivers throughout our policies. And I would make a motion that that would be updated by our clerk so we don't have to vote on every time. And the language I suggest, I'm not tied to it,

043is parents, guardians, and caregivers. I will second that. So I I duly noted. Would you like to speak to your motion? I don't think so. Dr. Anderson, would you like to speak to your motion? Just briefly to say we have used that term in multiple other uh policies that we have crafted from its start. The issue seems to be with existing policies. Miss Marin, I did try to call up previous documents and I was not able to match it the last time. It's It seems like there is no other attempt to try and use what's been done. Like I want to It seems like it I want to pull up what's currently in the proposed SRNR regulation cuz I think whatever is in there is what we should use. And so I'm going to pull

044that up right now. I think parents, guardians, caregivers is very long and we're going to have to repeat it all throughout and are we going to say parents at first reference and so let me just take a moment while perhaps you all continue talking see what was in the draft SRNR and then well then we have to vote on that motion that stood. Well, and my my comment on the motion is that I'm concerned about it because if you look at dismissal precautions and the sentences per principles do not release a student during the school day to any person not authorized by the student's parent/guardian. If you ask caregiver there, that's not appropriate to add caregiver there. But I get when you add caregiver around other things we're talking about in policy. So it is

045a challenge because that's not going to be appropriate in that particular context. So maybe we table this conversation and we can discuss it in 2 by twos and and with other board members you know individually offline and come back. I believe as chair you can table the motion till the next meeting. Okay then I would like to table this till the next meeting. Miss Maron, may I suggest um chair, are you able to just write out the pot like what the suggestion is? Like you just made a great point about parent/legal guardian for this kind of thing, but even in this it might actually refer to parents and caregivers when we're talking about helping kids. So is it possible for you to just jot down what you think it is? And I think that would

046help us immensely. Sure. I guess what I'm thinking is when it speaks to something legal, it should be parent and legal guardian. And when it references other types of support or times when caregivers, parents, it's appropriate to be supporting a student, then we would add parents, guardians, and caregivers or something similar. If there's something another more concise way to say it, Miss Lady, may I ask a question? Is Mr. Foster in the room? Yes, he is. Mr. foster. How do we um categorize um a circumstance in which a child is in foster care and that foster family makes the decisions at the schools? They would they be categorized as a guardian or as a caregiver? I believe they would be categorized as a guardian. Thank you. That was it. That was the only inquiry I

047had. Thank you. Okay. So, back to this. Um, under dismissal precautions, I'm hearing uh some support for just the first sentence, not the second paragraph. Um, I'm guessing the second paragraph is in there because I, as a high school person, am familiar with the times that a kid can sign an 18-year-old declaration, which allows them to sign themselves out of school. So, I think the reason that that is in there is because it goes beyond a parent and guardian, but this can be in regulation if everyone else is comfortable with it. But I believe that's why this was included. So, I want to make sure people understand that some kids turn 18. Can you identify the section you're referring to? I I didn't follow where you started. Section six, dismissal precautions, that second paragraph, which

048seems a little in the weeds to some people, but I'm just articulating that I believe the reason it's there is because there is a document that's an 18year-old declaration that allows a student to sign themsel out. that's often in situations where they're in a situation where they might not be living with their legal parent or guardian. Um, but they're coming to school, they're doing all the things and we work with them as a school. It's a unique situation, but my guess is that's why that's there. Miss Marin. Boy, now I'm thinking we need a definition section. I just looked up on the SRNR web page on FCPS. It says parent/guardian. Any parent, guardian, legal custodian or other person having control or charge of a child. So that's parent or guardian. Um we do not define

049caregiver on our SRNR web page. So, right now, again, it is parent slashguardian. I think the point though about an 18-year-old is is a really great one. It's super pertinent. So, do we need to state something even about an 18-year-old can sign themselves in or out? I mean, they're not I think that's the second paragraph in this particular policy. I think that's what that says. Release of pupils who are not me residing with or under the supervision of a parent or guardian. The burden of proof of authority of the person to receive the students on the requesting party. I think it's multi-layered in there, but I can defer if you want to Dr. Reid. I I'm not sure I read what you are articulating, Miss Lady, in that paragraph regarding students being able to sign

050themselves. It must be too buried for me to identify it. Well, I'm comfortable removing the paragraph. I was just trying to give some context to the fact that there are always some extenduating circumstances around where the first paragraph is not completely 100% all the time exactly how it's done, but it can be in operations. So, I'm fine with removing the second paragraph and just taking the first sentence for dismissal precautions. I would second that if you Well, you can't make a motion. I will make that motion because I think much of those procedures can live in the regulation. I can second. Okay. Miss Marin has seconded it. Would you like to speak to your motion? No, thank you. Okay, Miss Marin. I'm good. Thank you. All right. So, what's on the table is that under

051dismissal precautions, we only keep principles do not release a student during the school day to any person not authorized by the student's parent/guardian to assume responsibility for the pupil. Take the rest of it out. Not seeing any objection. Can we uh All those in favor, Miss Mayor, Mrs. Seismore, Heiser, Dr. Anderson, and myself, it passes. Can we make a motion to pass the policy? Miss Marin, I have one more little thing. Um it in the interest of trying to make language positive. So that paragraph that the only one existing now under four can it's again it helps people understand principles will release students only when only to the listed person on the care card. Right? It's confusing. We won't release student to any person not authorized. Well, it's more easier to say that positive students

052will only be released to the people that are authorized to do it. I mean, it's a grammatical thing, but can I say this is an uh an edit and if we could do this without objection, I also support the positive wording. I just said it. The principles will release a student. I don't know. It's it's an editorial thing. I got one, Miss Baron. Principles will only release a student during the school day. I'm sorry. Principles will release a student during the school day only to persons authorized by the student's parent, guardian, blah blah, and you know, on and on. [Music] Should it be can instead of will shall well it would be may student parents may release a student during the school day or sorry principles may release a student during the school day to

053only only two only two. So flip. Does anyone else want to speak to this motion? If you could reread it for me, please. So it's principles may release a student during the school day only two persons authorized by the students parent/guardian to assume responsibility for the pupil. Thank you. All right. All those in favor Miss Marin, Misser, Dr. Anderson, myself. That passes. Miss Lady, I'd like to make a motion to approve the policy and send it to the board. Second. Okay. Would you like to speak your motion? No. Thank you. Dr. Anderson. No, thank you. Not seeing any other hands. All those in favor of the policy as amended, Miss Marin, Miss Seismarheiser, Dr. Anderson, myself. It is passed. All right. I call in Dr. Reed for item 1.01, policy 2301, psychological testing, screening, student

054evaluation, and placement. Dr. Reid. Thank you, Miss Lady. Uh the memo for this document uh notes that the purpose of this policy is to establish a policy regarding the provision of psychological services for students. This policy was reviewed and updated by the office of the chief academic officer and division council and represents best practices. Changes that you will see reflected um are the result of collaboration and consultation with parents or guardians, school staff, principles and other administrators. Direct services for students were highlighted along with professional development for staff for school personnel and learning opportunities for families. Additionally, section three, the philosophy has been added and the title in section 4 has been changed from requirements to responsibilities. There is no VSBA matching policy. Thank you. Anyone want to comment on the policy? Seeing no hands

055up. My hand is up. Dr. Anderson, um I'd like to make a motion to um approve this policy, but the copy that I have responsibilities, the S is uh is um changed with the P. So, minus that little um change, I'd like to go ahead and motion for it [Music] to Oh, that's right. I'd like to make a motion for us to approve with fixing that minor edit with making that minor edit. It is now spelled correctly. Is there a second, Missheiser? Dr. Anderson, would you like to speak to your motion? I think I did. Miss Marin, just one question. In the philosophy, it says the schools shall maintain psycholog psychological services. Do you think that it should be more broad than say the school division? because I don't believe we have staffing so that

056there is a professional um psychologist in every school. Some of them are split I think. So does it make more sense to say the school division shall maintain instead of the schools? I don't even know if we talk about the schools like that. So I I like that. I would second that. Okay. So change no objection. Maybe a without objection kind of thing. Okay. Without objection, let's go ahead and make that change. So it says the school division. Yes. Okay. Not seeing any other hands up. Um all those in favor of passing the policy as it exists on the screen, Miss Marin, Miss Seismore, Dr. Anderson, and myself. Policy passes. I call on Dr. Reed for item 1.05, policy 241, academic placement of students in grades K8. Thank you, Miss Lady. Uh, the purpose of

057this policy is to establish policy regarding the academic placement of students in kindergarten through 8th grade. The policy has been reviewed and updated by the office of chief chief academic officer and division council and represents best practices. Changes made include adding two sections the excuse me philosophy and responsibilities and removing the last section and section five referring to the regulation matching VSBA policies um have been attached. Miss Eismore. Thank you. Um, this is one of the two policies I have. Thank you. Thank you though. This is one of the two policies that Dr. Anderson and I were tasked to look at and we played a lot of phone and text tag, but we did sort of I did made some suggestions today that I know I think she has looked at as well. But in

058section five, I wanted to add the word consultation in there around exceptions to placement or movement from level to level. Right now the policy reads exception shall made only a only um after so with the students parents and caregivers but final decision rests on the school authorities. I thought it should only made only after consultation with the parents and caregivers because I think they should be part of that conversation about moving students from level to level. So can you can you clarif I don't understand what you're making a motion to that end Miss Seismoiser I will support it. I will second it. Yeah I'm making a motion to add the word consultation. So it say it says exception shall be made only after consultation, prior notification and explanation to each student's parents. Right now it

059says exception shall be made only after prior notification and explanation to students parents. I wanted to add the word consultation in there. It feels more collaborative explaining only after consultation prior notification exception. So were after the word after after the word after put the word consultation. Yeah. To add that word so it's a little more collaborative and it's not just telling them but consulting with them. Parents may have a reason they don't want to move their student. Yes. There a comma after consultation but and a prior notification. That's the motion on the table is to add the word consultation to make it more collaborative. Miss Mayor. So, I think this this one I had um kind of an issue with last time around because I think it could be expansive and it could include all

060sorts of placements including advanced academic. Um the way that section 5 currently reads, it seems to be only about grade levels. And in that way I can support the language that of the motion but I think the title is confusing because again progression and exceptions and we don't want to be subjective about exceptions about grade level placement that to me seems reasonable but when it comes to we know how trying to get children into the advanced academic process and how that has been inequitable I wouldn't want this to open the door into saying well if you know um the I'm sorry the word you just said what did you just say consultation consultation right we wouldn't want that to be interpreted as well a parent wants to consult with a teacher to get their student

061placed into AAP because they weren't selected the first time around but this is also why I think this policy could be a lot bigger than it currently is and meaty and talk about advanced academic placement and and 2e um but als Also, it it's curious that it remains in special services. Shouldn't it be in instruction this whole policy? Why is it in special services or the chief of schools? I think it's the chief of schools where it would reside. Um, that's per the edits of the next one. Commencement activities as well I think should be. And then also, is it different for secondary students? Do we have a different policy for 9 through 12? So I just think what is our intention with this policy? Is it to talk explicitly about grade level placement and

062possible change in that? And if it is, I think we need to make that title a lot more clear because academic placement to me signifies one of our biggest placement activities that happens which is advanced academics. Could even be CTE. So, Dr. Anderson, thank you. And and yes, I confer I um concur with what Miss Seismoiser shared. We did play a lot of text and phone tag, but anyway, here we are. Um, one of the things that I also think may be a consideration whether it is to be included or not to be included, but minimally to offer clarity is whether or not this would also be um this would impact retention decisions and acceleration decisions because those are two questions that often come up. Um, so my question I guess is to Dr. Reid.

063Um, do you see retention being part of this policy per se? Because sometimes parents desire it or um I I know schools don't typically um put that forward a a as a plan generally speaking. Uh but also acceleration is also a very frequent parent conver um conversation. I wonder where do you see those two buckets? Where do you see them falling in terms of having a comprehensive and wholesome discussions discussion? Um I think that this is a policy that's at a fairly high level. I think section five talks about progression which would be where retention would be a conversation which is why I believe that you um are looking at adding the term consultation uh for that conversation. I think this is also a policy that speaks to students transferring in and trying to place

064them at the right grade level uh which is under the transfer. But I do think exceptions to the typically uh typical progression are addressed here. Um and talks at a high level about exceptions shall be made only after consult consultation and prior notification and so forth. So I do think retention is spoken to in this policy. Thank you. Um do you anticipate that would be the same to be responsive to what Miss Marin just raised? the same to what Miss Marin just raised, Miss Marin. In terms of academic pl um advanced academic placements, are those considered exceptions or is that does that live someplace else altogether? And if so, where? My understanding would be that would live somewhere else because they're still placed in fourth grade. They might be in fourth grade AAP, which is

065a program decision rather than a a placement decision. an academic placement seems to go by grade level. Um I do suppose if students came in who maybe were younger than their age might indicate the grade should be that I suppose an exception could be determined at that time um after a meeting. But I do think that AAP uh placement sits likely somewhere else and I would have to far it through all of the policies and regulations to figure out where that sits. But um I don't think it's necessarily this as it reads would not necessarily be clear about that. Thank you. Is there space for the regulation that accompanies this policy to be more specific in addressing retention and acceleration as potential exceptions? I'm just pulling up the regulation right now to look at what

066it says right now. I guess it's just VSBA. You know, I certainly a regulation could provide more um more clarity. Sure. If you have that regulation, can you share because I wasn't able to find it. Thank you. That was my last question. Yeah, I think the regulation is actually quite clear. um promotion and retention is listed in here. And again, this is grades K through eight um because they're not credit bearing or credit dependent. Um and then it talks about to be placed in grade nine through 12. Um but again it does not specifically talk about um academic um it looks like policy 2401 is academic pl I I don't know where AAP would be situated but I can certainly look that up but that's not connected to this uh policy or regulation but retention

067is discussed in the regulation. Thank you Missiser. Thank you. And I think this is a great conversation in terms of the title and and different pieces should be in here. I just wanted to kind of focus a little back on the motion to kind of maybe deal with that and then kind of open up some of these broader topics. Um because I do think there's a lot here that's important and whether it's in the regulation or we look at that. I I wanted to maybe get to the point about the word consultation. I you bring a very fair points about is it opening the door and I think that's good. The re the reason I when I I had thought about that a little bit when I was looking at this before the meeting and

068one of the reasons I didn't think so it says final decision rest with the school authorities in that and consultation to me is I guess when I read this I didn't want to be a parent who said oh by the way we're skipping your kid ahead a grade right and it just here's your notification and here's why as opposed to like hey want to bring you in and talk to I think that's what would happen in practice but I thought it's important that that practice is reflected in our policy so to me consultation is just Hey, we want to move little, you know, Melanie up a grade or or hold her back. We want to talk to you about it and here's your author notification, but it isn't this is part of your decision. It's

069just we want to give you a little more collaborative conversation. That's what I was thinking at for a consultation. Um, so I I would prefer to keep the word in there because I think it's important for parents to be part of that engagement. But great conversation on other things. Thank you. All right, I'll take a turn. Um, I I'm I I get that. My concern is that you have a lot of things going on. You have academic sometimes people want to advance their kids too quickly and athletically they want to hold their kids back because they want to have another year before they get into high school for eligibility. So, I just want to make sure the word consultation doesn't isn't isn't seen as I can pick up the phone and have a consultation with

070my school about my kid because typically it's the school reaching out to the family. But I I'm not going to die on the sword. I'm I'm okay. I want to say one other thing and um I'm I need Dr. Reed. Um so go ahead, Missheiser. I just wonder if there's a way to get to some of those concerns by saying exceptionally made only after the school consults with, notifies, and explains. So, it's the school doing it as opposed to maybe that's a we'll get to that, you know. So, if you know without objection, I would offer a friendly amendment and obviously my secondary would I would make sure she's okay with that. But after the after the school consults with comma notifies notifies and provides an explanation or or exception shall be made only after

071the school's consultation with if you want to have notified and if if I may just very quickly miss um Seismoheiser I know you're looking for me to second that but I don't think that's true to practice because many times parents reach out to the school wanting to have those discussions on retention or acceleration. It doesn't have to be the school that reaches out. The the parents reach in as well. So, it's unrealistic to think that parents will call and say, "I'd like to have my kid accelerated or retained and a conversation is not had and perhaps even a change in in the placement." I I I'm not even sure if what you're getting at right now is even true because schools can't say to parents, "Oh, no. We're not going to talk to you unless

072we reach out to you. I don't know if that's I guess what I wouldn't May I I'm sorry. May I answer back? The way I read it and I I I respect what you're saying because I I don't want to limit it to only the school which is why I didn't use the word only. Like I use school consults with. So it's the parents can it nothing forbids the parents from reaching out. It's just the implication the way we worded it is the school's responsibility which is what I was trying to get at as opposed to more equal. I don't mind the other wording. I was just trying to find a compromise. But I don't read this as forbidding parents from reaching out or saying only school, right? Or only the school can initiate it.

073Um I just think the the exceptions can only be made after the school consults. The school's consultation could have been initiated by the parents, right? I just I wanted to put more of a school ownership than a equal ownership is what I was trying to get at. I'm fine with either language. I was trying to find a compromise. Okay. You did that because it says the final decision still rests with the school authorities. So no matter who starts it, who how it goes, final decision is still coming out of the school. Personally, I just think adding the consultation has as you presented originally was fine. I think it got to having a more collaborative approach and did not diminish the school's authority. Well, then it's not without objection. So, I'll go back to my previous

074motion because that was on the table. So, I think procedures. We'll go back to the premotion. So, this part is what my right get it to them. I don't think that's what they're writing. So, I have a different question. Um, Dr. Reid, in terms of confusion about this being perhaps AAP related, um, and now I just handed my notes away. Can we say, for example, under placement, can we students normally shall progress annually from grade level to grade level? Can we put in there to delineate grade levels as opposed to the possibility of someone interpreting as an AAP placement? Yes, ma'am. We could. And then would it be appropriate like similarly under philosophy instead of academic placement, could we say grade level placements for students? Yes, ma'am. We'd probably want to retitle the policy then

075as well. Well, that that that as well. and whether or not it should be with special services. I mean, Miss Mirren tossed out a lot of questions related to that. I'm okay with the purpose established policy regarding the academic placement of students in grades K8. Yes, ma'am. And I I think it sits in the um chief academic office because you have your uh psychologists there who may um and also those in early childhood who do the assessments for perhaps early kindergarten placement. All of those uh professionals are situated in the academic office. Okay. So I'm I'm with you on that in terms of special services. Um although it's often a combination because instructional services is going to do an assessment of like our student who was in fifth grade taking BC calca Chantilly, right? Um,

076so I'm just wondering I'm I'm going to ask my colleagues without amending too much if we just said students normally shall progress annually from grade level to grade level. Um, would that suffice in sort of, you know, squatchching the idea this could be related to AAP but leave the terms academic placement other places because it's defined in the purpose as placement in grades K8. So grade where where would the language go with under five students normally should progress annually from grade level to grade level? Well I think titling it at the top then grade level placement students instead of academic placement and I also do wonder though is it only K8 does this not apply to 912 but 912 is in the regulation and 912 is based on the number of credits you've earned. Okay.

077So it does relate to promotion in theory to grade nine. Um I would think I mean I perhaps for this time if we bake academic grade level and we make the change in section five as you said this would be one of those things where if we could look at the totality of the series, right? Yep. Okay. All right, Miss Lady, since we have a motion on the table from Miss Eismore, we need to deal with that first before we can move on. So, the motion on the table is that we adopt the language. Exceptions shall be made only after consultation, prior notification, comma, and explanation to each student's parents, but the final decision shall rest with the school authorities. Just to clarify for Dr. Anderson, in case you can't see it, we went back

078to the original language, Dr. Anderson, that you seconded because there was a objection to the other language. Thank you. So I'm in support. I'm voting. The motion is from Miss Seismore Heiser, seconded by Dr. Anderson. Seeing no voting comments, I'll call the question. All those in favor of the amendment on the on the screen, Miss Marin, Dr. Anderson, Miss Eismerheiser, myself, it passes. So I'm trying to make a friendly amendment to it where at the very beginning we under the third bullet that's bolded sort of in the title we changed the word academic to grade [Music] level that objection amendment a and I have one other place to do And then down in section five, placement progression and exceptions that we add the word grade level grade prior to both of the words level in

079the first sentence. I'm sorry. I just had a question clarification question on that for Dr. Reed. Yes. Um Dr. Reed, when we put in grade level and grade level here, does that impact our students who are in the 18 to 22 year old program because they're not considered grade levels anymore, but they are progressing through their program. So that the ones that are Davis and Pulley and STEPP aren't considered grade levels, I think, but there is a progression. So I don't know I don't know the answer. I'm just want to ask that before we put the word in there. When you look at the title of the policy, if you want to scroll back down, this is in grades case. Sorry, I missed that. My bad. You're correct. Never mind. I I'll withdraw the question.

080However, it does say graduation requirements, which is confusing. Yes. Oh, that's the series title. And then that's the policy title. Good. I'm good. Thank you. Okay. Any comments on the change to academic to grade level placement and then the addition of the word grade in two places in section five in the first sentence? So seeing no objection, all those in favor of those changes, Miss Marin, Miss Seismheiser, I'm in favor. Dr. Anderson, and myself. Okay, it passes. Any more comments on the policy? Not seeing any. All those in favor of passing the policy as listed on the board, Miss Marver and a seconder. Make a motion to pass the policy as listed on the board. Miss Marin seconds. All those in favor? Miss Mayor and Miss Heismeriser. Myself. I'm in favor. Dr. Anderson. That's unanimous.

081It passes. Miss Lady just put I can see Dr. Anderson. Would it be helpful if I could name that for you? Okay, you can see. All right. All right. I call on Dr. Reed for item 1.06, policy 2475, commencement activities. Thank you, uh, Miss Lady. Uh the purpose of this policy is to establish policy regarding commencement activities. Uh it's been reviewed and updated by the office of the chief of schools and division council and represents best practices. The changes to this policy include adding a philosophy statement about commencement activities and what they are designed to do to celebrate student achievements. There is no matching VSBA policy. Miss Eismerheiser. Um Dr. to read a quick question on this. It and this might just be easy fix. It says students receiving standard advanced studies, modified or applied

082studies. I don't believe there's a modified diploma anymore. I believe that was phased out. So, I'm just wonder if we need to take that, but I I want to confirm that. There used to be one and I believe the last graduating year of that is phased out, but I'm would like to double check that. So, this was previously reviewed in November 22nd of 2021. So, we're within the five-year window and I will ask staff to check here in the next few minutes if that cohort group is complete. There was a cohort that was sort of grand but phase grandfathered in. I believe they've graduated but it would be good if they haven't if they have to take the modified out because that diploma no longer exists. Yes, we'll we'll confirm that and if it's that

083group's aged out, we'll um just make a maybe a motion to say if that group has aged out and the deflment no longer exists for us for the to modified to be stricken. There a second or without objection. Without objection. Is everyone okay with that? Miss Marin, Missraheiser, myself with Dr. Anderson abstaining. Are you a no here? No objections. Okay. Thank you. It's unanimous for all four of us. All right. So, do Dr. Reed just It can be stricken if you need to remove if it's found to not exist, you can strike it. We just voted for Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Not seeing any hands. Um I am gonna um I have a question, Miss Lady. I'm so sorry. Dr. Anderson, uh doc, this is a question for Dr. Reid. Where will we have some

084direction um to to staff? I'm imagining this is in the procedures and the regulations, but I would like to know um what I raised last time, which is kids being allow students, graduates being allowed to decorate their mortar boards. Right now, it seems to be a school decision. Some schools allow it, some schools do not. And there's an inherent inequity in that. Clearly, that would not live here because that is the procedure. But where does that live or where could that live? So, I agree with you, Dr. Anderson. It would not live in a policy. Uh, currently, it lives in school practices. Um, and at this time, there's no, uh, to my knowledge, there's been no conversation about moving it out of school practices. Can you provide an explanation as to why we have kind

085of that outlier document? because we had the same conversation regarding grading practices and the board sought to pull that over into a regulation which makes it something that is a little bit more firm because the practices they are or they're not. Could we have a similar approach with the graduation procedure practices and to pull that into regulation? What would be the risk of doing so? I think that would be a question I would have to go back and talk with our chief of schools, our chief equity office, and our high school principal association. Thank you. But I would still like to have kind of your take on the mortar board decoration. Should it be a school by school decision or it would be or should it be a division decision that all school all students

086are allowed to do this? whatever the parameters are, the parameters are, but some schools just flatly say no and others allow it. So, that's the piece that I want to get some clarification on. I I would have to go back as I said and speak with our chief of schools, our HSPA and chief equity office to you know have a conversation about um sort of in Fairfax County how did we end up on this divergent path and what to what end and whose interests are served to bring I mean of this particular detail of the graduation ceremony um centralized versus all the other details in a graduation ation ceremony. So I I would want to defer to that uh again chief of schools, chief equity office and our high school principles association to have that

087conversation um about uh a preference to centralize versus decentralize that at this time. Um thank you. I I appreciate that. And while that is not going to be what stops me from moving this policy forward with the small changes that just occurred, it is a question that has to be answered because it is a point where I have my in my community it's a huge question every year when graduation comes around and then they see that some schools are allowed but then they are not. So sooner rather than later for that question for me I would like to have the response. Yes ma'am. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Not seeing any other hands. I have a friendly addendum that maybe will be easy was based on conversations the last time we were

088together. And I guess what I would probably be doing was adding another um bullet four um entitled graduation speakers. And I would propose that we state that current schoolboard members and any individual running for office in the graduation year may not serve as a graduation speaker at commencement. I will move that for you, Miss Lady, since you may not be able to. All right. I have three people who have moved it. So I'll I'll do Miss Marin as a as a first. Miss Seismore as a first. Miss Marin as a second. Um all good. Then I'll vote yes. I don't really need to speak to it, but under four, it would be letter F. It's under or you could be you could just make a subsection Roman numeral 4, graduation speakers. Yeah, I was going

089to do Roman numeral 4 listed as graduation speakers. Graduation speakers is a title. Then current school board members and anyone running for office in the year of the graduation and candidate and any any c any candidates for well I said I said well I guess if I'm running for reelection I'm still a candidate. Yeah. So I can use the word candidate. Candidates running for elected office in the graduation year. Yes. And any candidate running for office in the graduation year may not serve as a commencement speaker at graduation. Yeah. At that at a graduation that year, I would recommend instead of May, you should turn that into a shall shall not serve. Yeah. Yeah. Sh. Yeah. Shall not serve. Not service is serve. Sorry, I know it's hard to type because only these two are

090talking to you. But um at how about at any Graduation activities that year. That could be senior awards. That could be well the Well, I I I wonder though cuz sometimes there might be an award ceremony where the chair is speaking on behalf of the board. Okay, that's okay. Like let's go back. Let's go back please so we can see that again. Yes. So I would say graduation just say it just say at uh graduation. Is it is it called formally graduation or commencement? Like what's the formal name for it? Yeah. So at any commencement activity then just take then to say as a speaker at any Why are you so as the commuted. Am I muted? Dr. Anderson, you're unmuted. Oh, okay. Um, can you clarify a little bit about the um the activities

091other than graduation? I heard a little bit of that. I I'm trying to figure out what awards ceremony that are happening at a specific school in which the chair would be speaking on behalf of the board. I I misspoke. That's not in there. So, the way it reads is current school board member members and any candidates running for elected office in the graduation year shall not serve as the commencement speaker at graduation or No, I think I was asking because I am in the favor of what I think you started to allude to with other activities. um other activities should also not have those candidates be speaking. And then I heard Miss Seismoheiser say the chair speaks at different places for the board. And I I'm just I can't think of one where it's a

092specific school's awards ceremony would have the chair speaking at it on behalf of the board. That was just a specific example. It could be the magisterial member. It's just a current schoolboard member. Let's say there's a a senior awards ceremony and they ask the current schoolboard member at that school to come make a few statements to the seniors for their awards ceremony. That's I was just thinking of different things that could be related to graduation. That was not something that I'm aware of. It was just a possible example if So, okay. Thank you for that clarification. It's really as a commencement speaker. I don't know that I'd be happy just to have it have this because speaking to thousands is not what we want and this is a better step than where we were not

093serve as a speaker at commencement or yeah it's okay to just we could just have a simple declarative sentence that would be okay that says commendment just need a C instead of oh no sorry that was the cursor that was my eyes Okay. So, it reads now, current school board members and any candidates running for elected office in the graduation year shall not serve as a commencement as a speaker at commencement. [Music] I make the motion still. Okay. Can I get to approve it? And not seeing any hands or comments, then let's uh vote on that terminology. All those in favor of what's been added, graduation speakers as a number five in the sentence. Miss Merid, Miss Eismerheiser, Dr. Anderson with Dr. Anderson. Wait, from the desk it passes 300. Miss Mayor, I have one

094other uh matter. Thank you very much, Miss Lady. So this first part of it talks about commencement but then under three B it talks about diplomas and those are two different things because getting your diploma and walking in commencement are separate and so we're going back up under section three requirements. Okay. Well, I guess no that's not true. requirements. A does include diplomas. And I guess I just also want to clarify how much of this is about diplomas. Do we want to say that a student who for instance graduated the following year from adult high school can walk in the school he mostly got his coursework in? Do we want to say I mean it says foreign exchange? It's so it's just a question. And it's I mean commencement activity is different than formally earning

095your diploma. And so are we talking about handing it out or issuing it I guess is where it happens. Or what if somebody isn't in the commencement? Do they get their diploma issued in some other way? Just asking if we need to speak to any of that. Well, if I think if I may I think it answers some of your question under a students who complete diploma requirements at a high school special education center. I I think that or hearing like other placements there are certain situations where they're allowed to walk with their base school. Okay. No, thank you. What I'm thank you for refreshing my memory. But what item A under requirements says is that a student who completes their degree from another FCPS program can walk and participate in commencement. It does not

096clarify if such a student would actually get their diploma through that institution. So the last two sentences of a say yes the student even if they went to adult high school or another program they can go walk in a school that perhaps they had spent some time in but their diploma will be from that graduating institute and I know I currently have someone who was at a base school finished at a program and would mean a lot to that student to have their diploma read the base school name and apparently that is not allowed or at least it's not the pro process right now. So because this talks about commit um commencement activities and diploma, I think it's missing some clarification about that full piece of the diploma. It talks about if you're alternative school,

097you can walk, but it doesn't say what your diploma can be from. Can you give a a better example? I have a student who was at Madison High School and needed to uh take a recess from Madison for a medical issue. That student then became 18, finished at our adult education program. That student would like the diploma to come from Madison. Currently, this doesn't distinguish what it would be. That student could walk in Madison's graduation. That's not what the student wants. The student actually wants the paper to say Madison. So, it would seem that if that's going that is going to live anywhere, it would live here because we're talking about I don't I don't think that can be done because the transcript's going to reflect where the student earned the credits and then it's

098not going to match the diploma. Well, but also we also allow students to get a new um diploma if they went to Lewis High School before it was Lewis or Justice High School before it was Justice. So just a lot of different practices. So I guess it's really question and for Dr. Reed and I do have a question in about this particular matter with this Madison student. So, Miss Maron, uh, Miss Brown is noting that there is a different uh, policy. Yeah, there's policy requirements for graduation high school credits for graduation and graduation seals of achievement. That one might Well, thank you. And that does remind me then I think we've done a tremendous job today. I know one of these policies was on our agenda from back in January. So we're doing great. But

099like that would be a great example of let's be sure we have all of those related policies in one place, right? So we can look at the totality of what we have that regards commencement and diploma. So I would ask that we table this for further discussion. So I would suggest that we table this for further discussion so we can review that and if there's any other ones together at the same time. Any other comments on that request? Okay. I'm I'm happy to table it. Um, sorry, Miss Lady. I was just going to say I I'm fine with tableabling it until we get the rest of that information as well. I have no objection. Miss Dr. Reid, I I'm obviously fine with whatever the choice is here. I would say um that the title for

100this policy is commencement activities. Um not nec but it's so I I don't I think that um this would be like the ceremony more so than the graduation requirements and how they're noted by school is all I was saying. And she's making a good point. This regulation talks about who can walk. It doesn't say what diploma we're handing them says. But it does say under section 3B, foreign exchange, diplomas will not be issued to foreign exchange students. So we are talking about who doesn't get a diploma. So then we take that out or we open this up. We could talk about it next time, but it's I think that's delineated because we allow them as part of their foreign exchange experience to walk, but the only other people who walk are graduating that June or

101that August or that, you know, January or February. They're the only ones allowed to walk who are not earning a diploma, which is why they're not given one. So I do see the the delineation. I'm happy to I'm happy to push it. Um but I do understand the point that what you're asking for is is is what the diploma is going to say. Well, and I do think if there's this other policy um 2460 that we should definitely look at it in tandem along with this. So I would still appreciate if we could hold off on it. Okay. I was just going to say I think I just see that sentence about foreign exchange students as modifying the first sentence which says you know observation of commencement is limited to those receiving these diplomas. However,

102we'll let you walk if you're you know foreign exchange student and a little more of who's allowed to walk is what I see these as opposed to the other one is who gets what diploma and and who meets you the requirements for graduation. This is just saying who's allowed to walk, those who are getting these diplomas. And also, that's how I read this. So, I'm I'm fine with this the way it is. I'm if we want to push it and observe in tandem, that's fine, too. But I think this makes sense to me outside that modified diploma conversation, which we've taken care of. May I ask one question, Miss Lady, as to uh Miss Marin's comments? Yes. um the student that you described, will that student be allowed to walk with Madison during their um

103during the commencement ceremony? So, I personally don't know that wasn't the ask, but are we able to establish that answer by reading this policy? It it seems so because that student will complete the under a requirements A. So that that student has the choice to the base school or the special education center. So that student does have that and would I guess receive a diploma that just has a different name of the school according to the policy. Thank you. There just seems to be a lot of questions here. I say, you know, for the sake of time, let's go ahead and push it until we can inquire a little bit more so we can be a little bit more productive with the with this policy. Thank you. That's it. Miss Marin, Miss Lady, I was

104wondering if we could just take a few minutes to talk about the next steps because we are approaching the end of the year and our experiment and reviewing. So, um, might we do that? Because I know we have some big ones on here like rights and responsibilities of students. You know, we've got some real meaty ones. So, um, and we've got and we've got our um some facilities as well. So well the facilities uh 8240 is going to be done and closed the beginning of next meeting uh a closed governance meeting and Janice will join us. Closed governance meeting. Correct. Okay. Yes. And then I would like it if possible if there is not a lot of objection because I do think we need to get through it is if we could review policy 2611.

105Uh I'm going to push the commencement one. We're going to table that for now. Um, but there are a few edits that the clerks have suggested for this particular one. It is a policy that predominantly resides with us. Um, but I do think because it lacks clarity in some areas. If we could if we could get through that one. I let me just ask the question. I only have a few edits from the clerks. Otherwise, I am perfectly fine with how it's written. Miss Seismarheiser, did you come with copious edits of 2611? No, I did not. This is not one of the ones we had. We had the AAP one. No, no, no. I know, but this was on today's agenda. Oh, yeah. No, no, I did not. Okay. I thought you meant in terms

106of No, no. I just want to jump to it if I can. Um, Dr. Anderson, did you have any um were you planning to um offer some edits to this policy 2611 or you was fine with how it was put forward? Just one overarching piece. Um and I'm going to go to that section so bear with me. [Music] Um maybe this is not the one. Give me one second while I find my bearing. I do believe I had one comment on this. No, this was discussed back in February. It's also been discussed previously under previous governance committees. I think this this third attempt at it is is provides the clarification that we needed. Um well, Dr. Dr. Anderson, you're looking at that and I don't see any other specifics. I'm going to I'm going to

107speak to the um small amendments from the clerks. Um, if you go to page two, if you're in the paragraph that is under the clerk's address, the fourth, well, the sentence that starts in the middle of the third line, the clerk of the school board shall record the date of receipt and provide copies of the written appeal to the members of the school board in the division superintendent or his or her design. That's not actually the order that it happens. The clerks would like it to read, "The clerk of the schoolboard shall record the date of receipt." Period. And then jump to the division superintendent or his or her design, etc. all the way to the end. and then move to the end of that paragraph that um the clerks will provide copies of the

108written appeal and all accompanying materials to the members of the school board and the division superintendent or his or her designate as the last step. Is that accurate clerks? Yes. and all accompanying room materials. Miss Le, I had a point. When you're ready, Miss Lady, I'm sorry. I got this one confused with another one. I don't have any comments. Thank you, Missiser. You can finish if you want to first. Okay. Yeah. All right. So that was one thing they wanted and then the the other was in the next paragraph prior to the last sentence because this is creating timeline and the school board will cons show consider the written appeal in all written responses at the next regular business meeting or at such other time as is practicable if circumstances prevent a timely review i.e.

109scheduling conflicts school closures or the need for translation services. So in front of the word 'the', instead of the school board shall issue a decision within 30 days, they'd like to add the word ideally the school board shall issue a decision within 30 days because there are occasions where because of inclement weather, because of translation. Yes, ma'am. I I'm fine with you continuing. I just want to go back up to the prior uh Okay. amendment. Okay. All right. Let's pause and go back to the prior amendment. Dr. Great. I just we've had a bit of a um I think with transitions and so forth, I think it's important that um my office receive this information as quickly as possible because um the recording the date of receipt. Uh there's been a lot of discussion about

110what four days constitute and if it's received at 5:00 uh for example former practice was that the first day would be the next day because staff wouldn't have had a chance to see it yet and at times I just think we could uh benefit from some more clarity around that. Um, and so I I I know that it was sort of moved to last to come to our office, but that's where work has to happen very quickly on a 4-day turnaround. And so I I just think at some point we need a little bit more clarity there. I think some of that language is in here. um concerning the workday conversation about the 4 days and the 3 days. This is just the full finished packet um and making sure that that was sent um

111at the end of everything if that makes sense. Um, so the language here says work days defined as standard business days. And then if we scroll down, I did scroll too far down right here. So that whole paragraph that right there. So that paragraph there talks about um that the you know your administration position and then the four work days after receiving the appeal. So that clerk provides the copy of written appeal and all material. Maybe we could take out written appeal and just have all accompanying materials. I don't know. But that really speaks to like that final finished packet that we um have that we send at the end. I think one way, Miss Brown, if you scroll up, that we can address Dr. Reid's concern is we could say the clerk of the

112school board shall record the date of receipt and provide a copy of the appeal to the superintendent, division superintendent, or his or her design. Um, Miss Lady, may I add a question to that? Uh, in a moment. Let me see if I want to make sure that this works for Dr. Reid because the way I understood it when I spoke with the clerks was the only thing you were delayed in doing was getting it to the school board, not to division council. I mean, not to the division superintendent, his or her design. Take out that part. I mean, maybe the last sentence just should say to the school board that that's when we get it, but they need to get it ASAP, right? So they they get it as soon as we process it, we

113give it to them. The four day workday starts. Um so yeah. So I think take that out at the end and actually put it earlier and keep Can I just say I'm not comfortable with making this up on the fly and I will not vote for the changes. I have some other We have only five minutes left. So because we can't get there, we will work. Um, Miss Eismerheiser, sorry, just this is I agreed to take this back, but while they're taking it back, I had one separate comment on this. Um, Mr. Foster, I know has come up before about a appeal on the written record versus a more formal appeal. I know it says here the school board shall consider the written appeal in all written responses, but I'm wondering if we need more

114formal language about shall the school board shall hear the appeal on the written record like in the way that it was that mirrors how we've talked about it before because I don't think this language mirrors how we've talked about it before and I don't want I know this came with a different policy with having to have clarity around written appeals versus hearings and so I would just ask maybe that sentence that you can see at the bottom the school shall consider the written appeal and all written responses. Perhaps if you could take another look at that to mirror that language that we did before to make sure it's clear as to when we're taking an appeal on the written record, which is what I thought this would say as opposed to a hearing appeal. So,

115if if I could ask for that as part of taking this back just to get clarity on that. Thank you, Miss Lady. May I share my question at this point? Sure. Uh, one of the things that I heard Dr. Reed talk about is if the document is received at 5:00 and I don't know if it was answered. There were a lot of conversations. But if the document is received and stamped, let's say 5:00, how are we accounting for the number of days? Is it to the hour? Because I think that's a real concern because if it's Tuesday at 5:00, Tuesday cannot count. So, Miss Setllo, how is that being um enumerated um in your office in terms of days? What starts the clock? It can I offer something quickly and then we got to go

116on. Perhaps we can put in there that if received before noon, then that counts as a day. If received between noon and 5, the next day starts the 4day clock. But we're tableabling this for now because we need to talk about the path forward because we're about out of time. Okay. And Miss Settllo, you could just email me regarding current practice because I still like to know. We'll do. Thank you. Miss Marin. Yeah. I just, you know, it'd be good if we could give ourselves a breather at the end of these meetings to talk about the path forward. You know, um I just want to know, are we going to tackle the SRNR policy? What are we have a request to change a meeting date? I don't know what from. So, could we just do

117a little bit of housekeeping to get really clear on what the agendas are because then we also don't have to wait until a week before to know exactly what we're doing. So, I'd appreciate that. Well, the path I mean, we can move something up, but the path forward has to been what we didn't get to would be on the docket for next time. But I but I disagree because we keep barreling forward and then like today there are other 2000s policies that were relevant. The whole idea was to go through one set and do it to completion. And the student rights and responsibility one and the advanced or the academic placement one, those are huge. Those are going to take us months. We got to get input from committ are they both out of compliance.

118They're both well, yes, I believe they are. And they are like one sentence. So, can we perhaps either it's something you're able to do before the next meeting or you know as had I asked to do this 15 minutes ago to do that here. What do we want to work on in May, June and the half of July? Well, if you're asking me my objectives, it's that we get through outdated policies without words smithing them to death and then once we get caught up, we have time to really drill down on series. But you don't agree with that. So I want to listen to people. The plan was to go series by series and today what was outdated? Okay, but we can't. Today we were stopped in our tracks because we have a policy on

119commencement that is related to a policy on 2460 and I don't know if 2460 is outdated or not, but now it's incomplete and so we're racking up all of these half reviews. That last policy was 2019, so it is out of compliance. So, I don't know. I thought the goal was to look at a whole set of policies at a time, and we seem to be expanding that. All right. Well, I will work with um folks to determine what what we we are all comfortable with with the next agenda. Yes, the next meeting, I believe, has been changed from the 13th to the 19th. It is now on Monday, May 19th, and that's because we would not have quorum in person on the 13th. Miss Lady, we're still m uh we're still figuring out if

120we're going to have quorum on the 19th. Okay. Well, I am available if you're waiting for me. And I'd much rather get the notice like this than hearing it, you know, a day or hours before. So, thank you for doing it in advance. Does that give us quorum? that right now it would be Miss Marian and you Miss Seismoreheiser is not available. So it depends on whether Dr. Anderson's available or whether mystix's available in person available. I'm sorry I didn't respond yet but I'll respond here. You are available. Thank you. And hopefully mix I am not available. Okay then we'll have to check with Miss Dixit. So more to come on that. Um yes I hear what fe what folks are saying. I'm I'm doing the best I can do. I will again reiterate I

121very adamantly opposed to someone chairing something they never served on before because there's people who know more than I do and I'm learning the best I can. So I will be receptive to that. Let's chat. We'll try to put together an agenda that makes sense for everybody um and that is allows us to be productive. So at this point we are adjourned. Thank you. Thank you all.