GBAPSD Board of Education Special Meeting: May 12, 2025

001[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Good evening and welcome to our May 12th, 2025 special board meeting. I'm Lynn Garlock. I am the new vice president and you see our president up there on the screen. James is with us virtually tonight. So, I'm going to do the best I can and if James needs to jump in and correct me, he should do that. Okay. Um, can we start roll call, please? Canel here. Middle present. Mow present. Gerlock here. Larly here. McCoy here. Becker here. Okay. And we have joining us at the table uh three of our intracity student council members and leaders. So maybe they could introduce themselves. Hello, my name is Andre Mora. I'm a senior from PBO High School and I'm the Green Bay Interity Student Council president. My name is Ariana Diaz and I'm

002sorry I'm a freshman at West. My name is Wendy Rivas and I'm a freshman at West. And correct me if I'm wrong, but they are in they are invited to participate in the meeting. Correct. Okay. So, let's go to action items. Um, we have uh a employment of staff. Uh, Andrew. Um, I'll I'll move that we combine items A through D. Is that a motion? It is. Okay. Is there a second? A second. Okay. Any discussion about combining these four items? Alex. Based on our conversation, does that in any way change my ability to participate in C and D if they're combined? No, because this is that's the other meeting. Good question. Good question. Yeah. Any other discussion about combining them? Okay, then uh we can just uh all those in favor of combining these

003four and taking them as one, please say I. I. Anyone opposed, please say nay. Okay, the eyes have it. We're going to take employment of staff, transfer of staff, resignation of staff, and retirement of staff as one. Andrew, would you like to give us a motion for those four? Uh, I will move approval of items A through D as presented. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? This the part where I can do my part or no. Okay. Um, because of my relationship to a district employee. No, no, let me let me stop you, Alex. This is about I don't think you need I don't think you need to do that. That's the next meeting. Yes, you're being you're being too good. Okay, go ahead, Andrew. So, unless unless

004you have unless uh any board member would have a connection to the the specific people we're hiring on probationary contracts or the or the transfers. Um cuz this isn't the motion for like all the contracts or anything like that. Correct. So in other words, if uh if you um are have a family member who is going to be employed and is part of a employment of staff, then you would recuse yourself. But otherwise, I don't think it's necessary. Okay. So um we have a motion and we have a second. Any other discussion? And Kinsey, how do we vote on this? Okay. Is this individual voice hold by you? Thank you. Menoff. Hi, Canel. I Gerlock. I Becker. I McCoy. Hi, Larly. Hi. Okay. Uh, now let's move to um E. Tank Elementary School lease agreement.

005Would someone like to make a motion? We have a recommended motion. Someone could read. Andrew. I'll move that the board of education authorizes the superintendent of schools and learning to enter into a lease agreement with Aspiro, Inc. for the use of Tank Elementary for a term of 12 months as presented be approved. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion, questions? Okay, Kinsey, how are we going to vote on this one? Online voting is now open. Oh, yeah. And I'm not in so I can't Okay, here we go. Just had to sign in. Alex, do you want to voice vote for this one? Are you logged into Vox? I just Okay, Oh, did they get Okay. All votes have been entered and the motion is carried with all board members

006voting in favor. Okay, we go to item F, general contractor award for how elementary community school HVAC renovation. Again, we have a recommended motion. Anyone want to make a motion? I make a motion that Howard Mo Incorporated be awarded the bid for the general contractor HVAC renovation project at How Elementary Community School in the amount of $2,54,500 as presented. Be approved. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? Okay, Kinsey, online voting is now open. All votes have been entered and the motion is carried with all board members voting in favor. Okay. Uh, item G, general contractor award for Sullivan Elementary School HVAC renovation. Do we have a motion? A motion that III general contractors be awarded the bid for the general contractor contractor HVAC renovation project at Sullivan Elementary

007School in the amount of 5,896,136 as presented. Be approved. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? Okay, Kinsey. Online voting is now open. All votes have been entered and the motion is carried with all board members voting in favor. And we have item H, general contractor award for the Prebble High School kitchen renovation. Do I have a motion? I move that III general contractors be awarded the bid for the general contractor kitchen renovation project at Prebble High School in the amount of $289,500 as presented be approved. Second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? Laura, um I just have a quick question. Are these three projects all referendum projects? Kale, can you help us? Mic's not on. Try again. There we go. um with

008the exception of the Prebble kitchen that is a split between fund 50 um and then the 2022 referendum. Um how and Sullivan are both all 2022 referendum. Thank you. I just um when we vote on these things, it's I don't think we can remind people enough how much we owe to the voters of this community for passing these referendums and making it possible for us to do these very large scale um improvements to schools um that are often aging and in need of of big big work. So, I just wanted to put that on the record. Thank you, Laura. Anybody else? Okay, Kinsey. Online voting is now open. All votes have been entered and the motion is carried with all board members voting in favor. Okay. So, we have concluded our business in the special

009board meeting. Do I have we'll we'll adjourn and then we'll go right into our regular work session. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Anyone oppose say nay. Okay. The eyes have it. We are adjourned. Yeah. But I got to find it first. session everybody. I can't get in. You still here? Yeah, but I want to I want to be in possibly I'm sorry. I'm having trouble getting into the agenda this time. Give me a minute. No, I want to get in. There we go. Okay, that time it worked. Welcome to our uh May 12th, 2025 work session. We'll begin with roll call. Becker here. McCoy here. Larly here. Gerlock here. Minnow here. Canel here. Okay. Our first item of business is public

010forum. I do not have uh any um anyone registered to speak. Kinsey, am I correct? Okay. So, we'll move on to our committee work. And um it's my understanding that all board members have been told by the president what committee they're on. Um education doesn't have anything on the agenda tonight. So, we'll go to operations and I believe that's going to be Laura. Thank you. Um we have four items under operations tonight. The first one is the potential transition from district internal income protection plan to a short-term disability plan. And I believe we're going to hear from Mr. Mike Fes. Thanks. Mike and I are Mike and I are going to take this item. Oh, I'm sorry. Alex, did you want to speak? Yes. for the uh next two agenda items. Due to my relationship

011with the district employee, I will recuse myself from these parts. Back in March, I presented to the board a preliminary look at the 2526 budget for the district. And at that time, I had shared with you and the public that we are looking at somewhere between 10 to 12 million deficit per 2526. And with that, I did share with the board that we'd be bringing forward some opportunities to uh cut our budget and uh IP, which Mike will talk about in a minute, is uh one of the potential options for the board to consider. In addition, I I want to remind the board um and and the public that uh not 10 to12 million deficit for the 2526 school year, but the $16 million operational referendum will expire in 2026. That will add another $16

012million to our deficit. So, anything that we can do today to start looking forward uh to addressing that would be helpful. Michael, good evening everyone. Um, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight. Uh, you've received a memo um outlining the administration's recommendation to um transition from a district-f funed income protection plan to a a voluntary employee paid short-term disability plan. About 90 minutes ago, um I received an update uh from the short-term disability plan um third party administrator in response to a question that our benefits advisory committee had asked about. Um as you know, we have a benefits advisory committee and um we've asked them to provide input and questions and get, you know, help us think through all the different details um around significant decisions like this. And one of the

013questions that was asked was um the proposal uh indicated initially that there would be a a minimum kind of critical mass group partipation of approximately 25% employees and that's indicated in the memo. Um 90 minutes ago I got an update from uh the third party administrator. Um, and so the memo is going to need to be updated, which I will update for you, because they've agreed to, um, keep all the rates the same, um, drop it to a 20% participation, and they've increased the maximum weekly benefit to $1,500 maximum. So, um, that's uh that that changes the table and it changes some of the details. So, um, as you'll see in the in the memo, when you get down to the portion where there's some modeled examples of if you're an employee that is this

014age and makes this amount and this is your maximum, where you start to see the number 1,000, that would now be adjusted up to a maximum of 1500, which we can get into. And I apologize, I literally just learned about this and um, so I'll I'll work with Kinsey and the superintendent to provide you an updated accurate information based on that new information. But for for the public in the board, I'd like to provide a very brief summary of what we're talking about. The income protection plan has been a district um administered and paid for um benefit that provides income support to qualifying individuals experiencing a period of personal illness um or injury lasting longer than five consecutive days after their sick leave benefits have been exhausted. Um that benefit um has been in place

015in a manner and facilitated by the district, paid for by the district um for um and uh it pays 82.5% of someone's income and it has averaged our district about $720,000 per year over the past uh six or seven or eight years. We had a high year uh where it cost the district 877,000 approximately. that was in 23 24 in a low year um kind of as we now know of it as the COVID year where um that low year in in recent history was $61,000. That was a coh shortened school year so less people went out as the year went on because we had transitioned to a different way of um operating virtually. You are only eligible for income protection plan payments during your normally contracted work days. So, for example, if you are

016a school year employee and you're eligible for IP, you do not receive that payment during the summer. Um, if we uh do have your approval to move forward with transitioning to a employee voluntary short-term disability plan, uh, our employees would be eligible for payments during non-contracted days. So, they would be eligible during the summer. The recommendation is to um utilize our long-term disability carrier for the short-term disability plan. It's a provider known as the standard. Um they recommend that we would offer this to employees who work 15 hours a week or more. Um, as I indicated a few moments ago, they've the minimum participation to 20% and uh they've uh agreed that they would increase the maximum weekly benefit um for up to those 12 weeks for uh from $1,000 to $1,500 with no change

017in the rates for the employees. So, that was um their their response to that. If the district does um move to a an employee paid um voluntary short-term disability plan, it will be an individual decision for each employee who is eligible on whether or not to participate in that. They will have opportunities during an initial enrollment period that we'll make available to everybody. Um and then annually during our open enrollment period, people can choose to add or drop uh the coverage. And new employees of course will be provided an initial window when they're hired for making those decisions along with their other benefits. If you approve, we would transition um approximately we're estimating October 1st. So that would not be happening during our current open enrollment period that people are doing right now. We would

018have to work on communication, clarity, provide answers to questions that folks would have specifically because again every family uh will have a different set of circumstances to decide whether this is a insurance product that uh they are interested in. So that is in essence um Laura would you like any other general context or does that properly for any discussion that the team would or the board would like to have? I don't have any additional questions but I'm assuming other people will. So, anybody Andrew And Andrew Oh, I'm sorry. You run this part of the meeting. It's um Yes. I guess I would say my my concern about this is that anytime we take a a benefit in a situation where um over uh over long periods of time uh staff um people in education have

019generally when they were able to negotiated for uh more robust benefits in exchange for um salary increases and that is uh that's existed for generations. And to I I just get really concerned about about touching this in a situation that's um not an emergency. I don't think that uh unless and until we see the state budget um I I don't think we're in an emergency right now that justifies uh taking away a benefit. I'm concerned about something where um you know making the wrong decision leaves someone without um this is where the parental parental leave comes from too, right? Or just I mean paid maternity leave would come from here. Uh yes, if someone is out of their sick leave. Yes. So this is something that's been, you know, been negotiated in and it's part

020of why salaries have evolved to where where they are. So I don't I I think it's well I think it's well presented, but I'm I'm not able to support it. I have a few questions. Um, first of all, how many employees have utilize this benefit in the past? On the uh memo page two, um we have a six-year look back that provides three columns and it shows uh the most recent years, the number of users, and then what that cost was for the district overall. If you'd like additional uh numbers of employees going back further, I could secure that if needed. Anybody else? Laura. Oh, James. Thank you. So, um, yeah, I'm I'm with Andrew on this, not for the same reasons. Um, looking back at the memo from last year and the presentation this

021year, the fundamental change was last year when we had this conversation, we recognized that the IP program was unique and that it being self-funded and the the parameters and the the um very very generous um number of days that u were excluded at the beginning of the period only being five versus 14. So the differences between the program were debated. We ultimately stick stuck with IP. This year the fundamental change in the argument. Last year the short-term disability was employer paid um and there was no cost and there was no premium assessed to the employee. Um and this year there is um it's an employee paid benefit and voluntary. So, um it, you know, when I look at the the monthly premiums being $80ish, you know, give or take 10 bucks, um given where you

022are in your career, um that being a an expense um in and to itself is not significant. But during open enrollment, when that expense is paired with the expense of medical coverage, with the expense of other items, you you get biased to um not necessarily pick voluntary benefits um which you know will leave you at risk and this creates crisis, right? If you go on short-term disability and you have 90 days or 60 days or whatever, you know, your balance minus your PTO is that that creates crisis for an employee. Um and and that the the fact that it's employee paid is one. Um but the fact that it's volunteer um given short-term disability, no one plans to be injured. Um and so um that's that's why I'm I kind of took a step back.

023Um last year it being employer paid um the differences between the programs were being debated. Um now I I I don't know that I agree with it being a voluntary benefit. Janette, what is the industry standard? What are other school districts doing for their employees? in my research um in looking at uh a collection of benefits and wage information gathered um statewide by CISA 5 in a consortium effort. Uh out of 223 districts I was able to review 177 of them offered um indicated that they offered short-term disability. When I drilled down further and looked at the CISA7 area, so our neighboring districts, uh, there was only one district in CISA 7 that offered an an employer sponsored version. Everybody else who offered it did it as we are recommending tonight, which is a voluntary

024employee one. the one district that did uh or does offer indicate they offer an employer sponsored one um appears to be similar to the proposal that we brought forward last year where it's administered by a third party where there's that external adjudication of validity and such but um so I have not been able to find another district that offers our current scenario which is internally administered 82 and a half% um in our form and fashion Anybody else? Vicki, did you have anything you wanted to add? would would the board in So we're looking for areas to save the district money which uh would allow us better position us in the 2526 school year to look at CPI which is 2.95% and provide our staff with with a um a salary increase that would be competitive

025although I think um our base is probably one of the highest in the area. Um James brought up the the memo from last year where we had suggested a second option which included a savings u albeit not $700,000. Um the board rejected that one last year. um this the savings that was on that second option was $174,891. And at that time, the board said that that didn't seem like a a lot. Um and that maybe it wasn't worth it. Um I'd be interested in the board's thoughts on bringing something forward, although it wouldn't reach the 800,000. Um, but could be something for discussion. I know that this this deficit is um very pressing on our district and it's not going to let up for any anytime soon. So, in the spirit of trying to compromise,

026I wonder if the board would entertain some kind of I don't know how to put it, partial payment from um um the the staff and then a partial payment from the um the district. Uh and to share that cost in some way, some percentage. I don't know if if that's something I'm just putting it out there as a possibility. Any Lynn and then Janette? I was thinking that same thing and I wonder if we can ask Mike if that's something feasible or realistic. Laura, are you suggesting something like the an an externally facilitated adjudicated plan like like the proposal out here, but instead of the employee paying the entire premium as with our other voluntary products, the employee pays a percent of the premium and the district pays a a percent of it to equal

027the total premium cost. Is that what you're suggesting? Yes, but I am literally open to any other suggestions for shared cost sharing costs. Um I'm sorry, who's next? So the way the plan is right now, the employee gets 82 and a half% of their pay. So, the plan that you're proposing where the employee pays the benefit, what's the percentage of pay they're getting? If you take a look at um page two, kind of in the middle, there's a benefit schedule. So, it's a 70% and then it would be 70% and then as I indicated in the update that came late this afternoon, your your memo says 70% up to 10,000 per week. Um, so not per pay period or per month, it's 70% per week, uh, up to a thousand on your memo, but it'll

028be updated to reflect up to,500. Right. So, to James point earlier about, um, someone making a decision during an enrollment period around paying the premium of, you know, okay, there's a monthly premium divided by, you know, the number of paychecks. Okay, it's going to add about, you know, $43.77 to my payment each check, right? um you would get if you utilize the benefit uh a year's worth of premium payments would be covered within the first two weeks of payment back for the plan, right? So, um kind of similar to any insurance product, right? If you pay your car insurance, it's a lower amount and then you have this accident with your car and then the insurance company pays the big amount kind of a thing. So, again, um long and short of it, 70% up

029to up to $1,500 per week for 12 weeks. So, is there a possibility um to consider instead of paying the employee on the plan as is right now at 82.5% that we pay that bring it down to 70%? How much would that lower our out-ofpocket cost if we still had 173 to, you know, 118 to 173 users. Looks like 173 users was the max amount in 1819 and 143 was the lowest. No, 118 was the lowest in 19 and 20. Um, what difference would that make? I would have to get back to you on that. Um although I I recognize that that's probably middle school math. Um and I know I can do it. I just don't want to be put on the spot trying to figure it out instantly for you. So I would

030have to get back to the board if that was a request for changing the like if the request is changing IP to a different percent payout uh to address this. Um I would need to know and then we could model that out and get some estimates. It might be so nominal. it basically it it'll be 12 and a half% difference, right? And so it'll be fairly nominal. It's not going to save us 876,000, but it might be more palatable. Yes, I believe that goes back to when Vicki was articulating the details of last year's proposal, right? um it would kind of get into, you know, into determining, you know, how much savings is there over a h 100,000 less than 300,000 kind of a thing. So, um I'm I might be open to considering something

031where everyone everyone gets the benefit, but if our benefit is much more generous at 82 and a half% than almost almost anyone has, I I could probably consider that. The my problem is removing removing something of value that is included for everybody. That's maybe maybe it doesn't bother someone enough for them to go and replace it. But that is a that's a cut. It's a it's a cut of and in our case we would know because under self-funding we would average it out. we would we would be cutting something of value of $80 a month or whatever the the value of it is. And it's just it's important to me that employees are whole. Um so that when we give a CPI, we're truly giving the the CPI. But that said, if we are an

032outlier by paying 82 and a half%, I would consider being open to that small adjustment. James, did you have anything you want to say? I will just include and and acknowledge that in a budget where near 80% of our costs are human resources, right? And, you know, knowing that um it's going to be extraordinarily difficult um to to to make the types of cuts that need to be made to balance a budget. and not impact the professional staff or our staff at all is near impossible. Right? So, my vote tonight is against cuts that create crisis and going 60 or some odd days without pay I consider a crisis. Um, but you know, you will see that my vote in my opinion changes as we talk through steps and we talk through, you know, CPI

033increases because, you know, we recognize that we still have a fiduciary responsibility to try to to come in balanced and not go running back to state uh to taxpayers um every time in order to to balance um our budget. So I just I want that on the record that I recognize and acknowledge the problem. Um I just want to make sure that we do it in such a way where you know it is it is born or everyone bears it right and not just those who have an unfortunate event in their life. And I just want to remind everybody that we're not voting tonight. We're just discussing we vote next time. Right. Right. Um, again, I just want to emphasize that the this deficit is looming and I um there's no getting around it. It's

034it's it's something that we are going to have to deal with. Um, and this might this conversation sounds I mean just speaking for myself now um I I think there is a crisis. I'm sorry I have with you, Andrew. I think we are in a crisis. It just doesn't maybe seem that way. Um, and the sooner we start dealing with some of that, um, I, you know, I don't want to have to close another school. I don't want to have to do some of the drastic things we've done. Those were necessary. They had to be done. Um, and and our district, you know, is better is in many ways better for it, but um, boy, do we really want to have to do another round of that. Um, and again, this is happening across our

035state, not just in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Um, this tightening of the belt and, you know, to to to the extreme, we're actually better off than some districts are. Um, so so here we are talking about the benefits that our our employees, our very very valuable employees get. And um, it doesn't feel good to for anybody to have this conversation, but it has to happen. It's necessary. Lynn, I would just like to suggest that the way to avoid a crisis is to prepare and take steps in advance. And I think that's what we're trying to do. It's very, very difficult. But being facing a $10 million deficit is very, very difficult. If we don't take steps, we will face a crisis. Anybody else who wants to have input on this subject right now? Okay, then we're

036going to move on. Um, thanks Mike. Thank you. In summary, I will provide the board an updated information um at so that you have the the correct information. Thank you. So Laura, before we move on, can I just make sure that I understand what that's going to be? So, Mike, I I heard that um we're interested in determining, and please correct me if I'm wrong, anybody, um if we could transition the proposal from an employee paid voluntary benefit to an employer paid benefit with cost sharing, you know, where we would potentially match a share. So when we look at that, it would be my expectation that the savings that we had identified in last year's memo of 170 would be more there would be more because there wouldn't that was um the employer paying all

037of the premium. Um so identifying a cost sharing is does is that what the board took away from this afternoon's or this evening's conversation? I would agree with you, James. So, um I'm not sure what that would look like though is it would have to be model. Yeah, some kind of a recommendation for what cost sharing maybe a couple different scenarios for different percentages. And I think Andrew had a a separate suggestion. Andrew. Well, I I guess I don't know how I don't know how separate mine is from what's proposed until I see the other thing being proposed, but pri primarily right now everyone has it. So my concern is much more about going from everyone has it to you have to opt in um versus everyone has it but perhaps it is slightly less

038less generous. So, um, but I guess I can't I can't speak on what I have. I mean, I know we were shown something one option last year, but that was a long time ago. So, I'll have to call it like I see it when it comes in. I'm sorry, Mike. I don't know that we're being very clear with you and helping you kind of um as to what we need from you next. Well, I I think I I think I understand the task. Um and I will I will take that away under advisement. I can I can tell you that um the amount of uh modeling that will take place relative to again I think another big difference is that IP currently is administered during contracted time only. Um and so that means that making

039some adjustments to employer versus employee and then determining how this whole thing would be managed at a different percentage thing. um I need to take a little bit of time to understand how to project out summerbased payments versus not and um make sure that even that 170% 70,000 estimate savings is that actually true if a bunch of elective knee replacements and hip replacements suddenly start coming in in the summer um and how would that impact things? So I that I just need a little bit of time to to learn about that. We'll work on that right away for you though. Perfectly understandable. Like I said, I don't know if we were utterly clear with you. Um but um it sounds like we're we'd like just a little bit more information from you. Appreciate it. Thank

040you. All right. Um we're going to move on to B recommendation for timing of the implementation of staff advancement of salary schedule. And I think Vicki, I think you're going to talk about that. Forgive the redundancy, but in March, I shared with the board and the public that we were facing a 10 to12 million deficit for the 2526 school year. In that discussion, I shared a few examples of things that we could do immediately to um await for the state budget to be um we did have a chance to meet with the governor earlier today and he was optimistic that we would have a final budget for the state this summer. So, I am hopeful that uh his optimism works in our favor. He does recognize the urgency and what this does for school districts

041that begin their budget July 1. Um, with that, I had asked the board to allow us to wait for the state budget to begin negotiations and uh move our staff forward on this step schedule. Uh the the waiting to negotiate is uh doesn't require a board motion. Uh but the steps do as as HR and the business department have shared with me. It's uh similar to a switch being turned on beginning July 1 that allows our staff to move forward on the step schedule. So I am asking the board uh to next Monday consider uh this motion that upon the passage signing and effective date of the 2527 Wisconsin state budget the district shall bring a recommendation to the board of education regarding the advancement of staff on salary schedule eg steps as presented be

042approved. So with with the board's permission next Monday, we would pause that, wait for the state budget, enter into negotiations, and move our staff forward on the the step schedule. Vicki, can you read it again? I'd love to read it again. Thank you. that upon the passage, signing, and effective date of the 2527 Wisconsin state budget, the district shall bring a recommendation to the board of education regarding the advancement of staff on salary schedules as presented be approved. Thank you. I'm going to assume then um the minute that budget is passed, we can just call a special meeting and I'm assuming to get that vote taken by the board. Yeah. Well, we we'll have to see when it lands. Yeah. Right. It's anyone's guess, but if if it you know, we're two weeks out from

043a from a meeting when that budget passes, then maybe we can expedite it. staff will be back paid at the point of the contract being finalized. Questions, Andrew? Thank you. So, my my concern on this is that it it certainly is a very normal procedure that has been developed over years of of bargaining that we would delay uh until the state budget comes through. Uh or in other situations where maybe the state budget was intact but the funding itself was delayed that we would we would delay and then there would be a retroactive pay once we were able to come to an agreement and happen because the state money wasn't in it maybe happened for other reasons too that just negotiations weren't complete that that um that happens. That's a normal that's a normal and

044accepted part of the process. I'm I'm very concerned about the message that's sent if we start touching new things that have not been touched before, which is a a delay in the a delay in the steps is new. Um although I can only speak for myself, I don't think a delay I I don't think in the end it's likely that a proposal to not pay steps for a year if given probably wouldn't pass. Although I guess I can't say for sure. Um, I think we we lose I think we lose uh goodwill even even if the even if the people who've been here for the the longest know that there's not realistically much danger there. I'm just very reluctant to to touch something that we haven't ever touched before, especially when it's very very unlikely

045that we would um we would delay the steps. I think there's a big a big potential loss of morale and there's not actually a savings of of money in the in the end because I don't think if if something went really wrong with the state budget, I don't think steps is where it would come from. Anyways, anybody else want to speak to this? Um, James. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So, I I looked at this and I looked at the CPI increase. Um, and I appreciate the delay because we we get and we talk about um these types of expenses, but there's always this unknown that's part of the equation and that is what what will be the change in revenue side um out there. So um I think this is a substantial enough amount of money

046along with the CPI increase that we should not spend money that we don't know that we have. Um and um to Andrew's point, there's a very high likelihood that, you know, this might not be where it ends up on going, but I think we need to communicate to staff that, you know, we're we're down to, you know, removing more and more from the actual classroom, right? you know, more supplies and and as we continue to reduce operational budgets 10% year over year over year over year, you know, I think that the message needs to be that we we understand that um uh it is across the board and and every option um that uh uh is out there needs to be analyzed um and part of the equation. Um and um this is so I

047I'm absolutely in in favor of having that motion be presented next week. Um, and I'll probably be um a yay or I vote um to to pause and when the budget is presented, take a really hard look um at where we need to make adjustments. Um, and I don't think that we can go in um and and have a a true budget process without having conversations about our number one expense. Um, and I I know that there's goodwill and I know that we try um at every turn to not impact um teachers um but uh they need to be part of the conversation um so that we we keep um doing the right thing um year over year. Anybody else? I don't really have anything to add to this other than it's an example of

048how much public education is still still and I don't know when this would ever change be um at the mercy of politicians. So here we are waiting waiting for them to decide some stuff. So um that's it. Anybody else want to speak to this? All right, then we're going to move on to the 2022 2024 referendum updates. Let's invite Alex. Hello again. I have a um somewhat brief update um for everyone. Um while we've started some construction and have additional bids coming in, um we're in a little bit of a a quiet period kind of before we get extremely busy. So, this should be fairly quick. Um I've consolidated all of our remaining 22 referendum um projects into one one slide here for you. And if there's any particular questions about any projects, please let

049me know. Um uh a few um notes are we have one large remaining project um that needs to be bid out um and we're finalizing some design change and that's our distribution center um and that will be bid out this summer um or yeah summer yet and construction will start yet um this summer into fall. Um, we also are are, as you can see, in pre-construction phase with many projects. Um, and then in the construction phase at not only the West Stadium, wrapping up that project, which is still on track to finish um, July 4th, um, but also starting an HVAC project at um, JAL. Any questions on the 22 referendum? Andrew. So, West is on track for completion July 4th. And completion refers to not only whatever's do happening with the cell stuff, but

050also the full capacity of the grandstands being open for business. You are correct. Anybody else? All right. Okay. Um for the 204 referendum, um another brief update, I don't have any new um bid information for you. Um Dodie Elementary, uh renovation in addition will open up next week. Um so the next update will have that involved. Um exciting news, as others have seen, um I should change that on here. I apologize. New West Side uh to Star Elementary. Um we have started site work um geothermal well drilling um a very active site. They were pouring the first footings on Friday. Um we will have a little more detailed um uh update with our partners at Nexus in the coming meetings as well including photos and and little more detailed schedule information coming up. Um and

051that'll also go for um Chapel Elementary and um actually all of the projects you see up there. So any um I we did have uh community sessions um the week of the 28th um I thought went very well. Um some great feedback. We were able to share plans uh renderings of the sites of Chapel and Dodie as well as those renderings of Chapel and Dodie. Um so with that, any questions on the 24 referendum this week? Okay. All right. We did have a uh we did have a couple renderings. Just quick I just had three on there. I we did put the name Star Elementary. It doesn't necessarily mean um that's how we will put it on there as we finalize branding. Um but just updating that. And there is pictures on our website as

052just a reminder um of these renderings uh for these site. This is Dodie Elementary um obviously looking much different than it does today and then Chapel Elementary as well. So those are on our website um for updates and you'll be seeing that uh come out of the ground here soon. Thanks. Okay, we're going to move on to our last item under operations, which is the superintendent search. Um, Kenzie, I think you have a a chart to put up. Just everyone, this is a draft of a propo. It's not even a proposal yet. It's just sort of a an idea of what a schedule might look like in as we proceed with this um process. Please. Okay, this is the start of our conversation about hiring a new superintendent. As Ms. McCoy mentioned, this is a

053draft. All board members should have received this via email. In addition, we're about to to share it publicly on the screen. Um, and again, this is just to get the conversation going and give you u a look at a similar timeline that we've used in the past. Between September and October, uh, the board would determine services needed from an out and then hire an outside vendor. From October to the end of November, the vendor would assist in developing a leadership profile, position requirements, and recommended attributes. And this uh this would be gathered um and created through focus groups, uh community outreach, one-on-one meetings with board members so that we can get a better idea of what qualities you're looking for in your next superintendent. that leadership profile uh again estimated dates would be presented to

054the board of education and the public on December 8th. Based on that profile uh application would be created and uh that could open December 15th and close January 30th. That timeline, by the way, um works for opening an application for a superintendent position works in the state of Wisconsin based on when license um I'm sorry, when um contracts are given out. Um most super current superintendent would not want to um publicly be applying for a position much earlier than that. Screening would happen the first couple of weeks in February. That would begin with a paper screening and then phone screening. School board would review the slated candidates for face-to-face interviews and that's recommended for February 23rd. First round interviews March 2nd through 6. That's the first week of March with second round interviews day in

055the district happening the week after the board would make final decision in close session on March 15th. That again this mimics what you did last time. Of course those dates can change. There would be a special board meeting authorizing uh the issuance of a new superintendent contract at the Monday board meeting on the 16th of March. New superintendent approved by the board in a special board meeting on April 6th and the contract would begin July 1. Thank you, Vicki. Um, I'm just gonna tee this up by saying that I've been through this process now a couple times and I, speaking only for myself, have absolutely really no interest in doing it the way we've done it in the past. And I think um I think that just what we've been through in the last you

056know year or so um I've other board members have ventured to say more or less the same thing. Maybe they've changed their minds. I don't know. But I'm I'm open to trying something new this time. Um I'm open to trying to maybe find our help in this process locally. Um, I just don't want to I just don't want to repeat what we've done in the last couple cycles and I'm open to doing something substantially different. Anyone else? Lynn, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but if you could explain how this is different because I some of us were never part of it before. No, I understand this isn't terribly different. What it doesn't um talk about is you know um hiring a search firm um the way we did before. Um

057this is this to me is just a draft of what a of kind of to for for people to understand the scope of the process and the timeline and how things kind of need to follow us at least something of a timeline to get us to a spot where we can offer a contract to a candidate. Um I this isn't carved in stone in any way. Uh it's just you know like again just an idea of of the process. It's fairly complicated and I think it needs to be done very carefully. But I again would be open to something other than what we've done in the last couple cycles. And um I'm not sure exactly what that would look like even but I'd like to hear from everybody it. Can I just follow up please?

058Please. Um so it it talks about hiring a vendor. How is that different from hiring a search firm in the past? Um maybe that vendor is some um a local company. Maybe that vendor helps with only part of the process. um maybe the board gets more involved in the process and and so I mean the the search firms in the last couple cycles um did a most of the work and and took on um took on pretty much the entire process with input from the board. Um, but I think this time around we can change that if we choose. And um, just from what I've heard from other board members, they I feel like that people might be open to that, but again, I'm not sure and I'd like to hear from other people. So,

059James, um, yeah. So, I think we put that top line on the the timeline to address that, right? Um and that is we really have to just figure out what services we want slash need from any kind of external entity. Um, you know, I don't think we should just in the name of doing something different think that our internal talent acquisition and HR resources are adequate um to do this kind of of search um or should they do this kind of search given that you know that this is searching for ultimately um who would be their um employer right so I agree with you Laura I think that we have made decisions to use firms that had more national footprints or etc. in the past and we've opted to just kind of outsource um all

060of the uh the um searching and uh the assessment of candidates um to them. Now, some that this might exclude some opportunities, right? There are some firms out there that it's, you know, we have to do everything or we don't want to bid on the work and that's fine, right? I I appreciate that. But we do have to find if we're going to use an external entity in some sort of hybrid role where they are augmenting our internal capabilities or doing some of it um we have to be really careful that um they have that competency in in in uh engaging in those kind of um or work working those kind of engagements really. Yes. Thanks. Anybody else? Andrew. Um I've I've been in favor in the past of of uh going to a less

061expensive model. Um it's poss possibly I would consider WB a severe limitation with them that they cannot actively recruit an existing Wisconsin superintendent because of um because of conflict of interest. So I don't know how many I would I would think I mean every superintendent in the state will know that Green Bay is hiring and know what Green Bay is about but active you know sometimes these firms being able to actively actively recruit makes a difference. Um I also don't want to automatically set aside unless a clock has run out on this by now. Um, the previous search firm uh has a contractual commitment to to rerun a search if the superintendent didn't stay long enough. Um, I do not support having that same firm do it in the same way. But if they owe

062us a basket of services, perhaps we could take take some of the basket while retaining firm control over the parts that we want to retain control of. If if we are owed that for free and it's of use to us, I think we should consider taking it. But, um, I'm always I'm always in favor of, uh, especially with with this being more, um, if there's a desire to be more handson with the superintendent search, I'm all for that. Yes, thank you. Um, thank you for bringing that up, Laura. And I think it sounds like a lot of us at least agree that a huge part of the processes that we have used has not served us well um for various reasons. Um I definitely think that that's something we um you know need to completely

063change and I've I've been vocal about this before. Um I think I concur with some of what you said as well is I think we do need to take a more active role um as a board in in the process and I don't think there's any reason why we can't. Um, I think it behooves us to be quite honest. Um, I would also like to reiterate that, you know, as far as a vendor or a um, search firm, I think, as James kind of I think alluded to, I think, uh, it's important that if there is a particular way about finding a person or a part of this process that um, maybe, you know, we could leverage for for an aspect of the search, it's worth considering. But as a whole, you know, I think

064it it should be definitely different than how we've done it. And focusing on local, I think, is huge. Um, and local doesn't have to just mean Green Bay, but I am not interested, to be quite honest, and across the country for finding a superintendent for our area. Um, I don't think it works. I think there are inherent flaws in that logic. Um, and I think there are plenty of qualified people in our state, and I think it's it's upon us to give more of them a reason to want to come here. Um, which can be a small part to increasing some of our options and the quality of them. And lastly, um, I think, and we've kind of talked about, and it's part of this process, reprofiling and really honing in on the type of

065person that we can support and that will be successful is as important as anything. And I think we need to re-evaluate what that is. Um what those skills and what our priorities are in order for this to be a long-term success. All right. Anybody else want to chime in on this? Um I'll just go ahead, Jim. the the timeline that was presented um seems simple, but just recognize that each one of those timelines there's a lot of preparatory work and and to get there and um it kind of glosses over the magnitude of the effort. Um so just you need to leave um here knowing that each one of those lines the staff, us and whoever a vendor would be, there's a lot of work in there. when you start talking about the fall um

066there's to put together all the the different types of engagements that we need to put together in order to get the necessary feedback to do appropriate profiling whatever. So uh there's one thing I remember from the last uh searches that there's a lot of time and effort that goes into it. So, um, it's going to take the board really focusing and participating at a higher level if we're going to, uh, change status quo. I agree with that. Honestly, I don't really want to add additional burden to our staff. Our HR department is um, very very busy all the time and um, I'm not even sure what the commitment we would what kind of commitment we would need from staff. Um and there I do think there needs to be a wall between um our staff

067in on some in some areas because they can't be they can't have the appearance of be participating in the hiring of their next boss. Um so that is something we need to keep in mind. Um and I would be open to maybe considering um WASBY like Andrew mentioned in some kind of a limited way. um potentially might be able to help us in certain aspects of this search. It might be a combination of the board, our staff, CS7, the community. Like there's a lot of different um stakeholders and people that um can can be a part of this. But um I think it will be important to delineate those roles quite specifically um so that everyone knows what their role is. and um and and that might be complicated and might take some time to

068um really uh flesh that out. So, I don't know. Does anyone else have anything else they want to add to this? Go ahead, Alex. I would just add to that point. I think, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but having done this as a district repeatedly the last number of years and not a super lengthy amount of time, I think on some level, there's a lot of data there in these processes that we can use from previous searches to help streamline a lot of this um instead of starting from scratch. You know, for example, some of the profiling stuff, some of the things, community, teachers, everything. I mean, we have, I would argue, just throwing out a number, 50% of the work or the information of what we need there that can help quicken our

069timeline, our ability to go through this. And so, I think I just want to point out I think we should use some of that, figure out what we don't want, what what we need, what we can take, and some and that can help alleviate in this whole process a little bit. I don't disagree with you. Um, I just when it comes to um kind of what what the public wants and expects from this process, I I um that can change over time. So, I I I guess I'm I I might want a new I I want I might want new data on that particular area. Um people's feelings change over time. So, but then maybe not. I I get what you're saying. It's a it's a good point, Janette. We probably do have quite a

070bit of information but as you said people's thoughts uh change and the people who are affected make a difference. We have different parents coming in. We have different people um teaching staff has has um changed slightly. I totally agree that we need to look at the past data and use that, but we also need to ask the same questions and see what things have changed in people's minds of what they're looking for. So maybe we won't have to work quite as hard. And I don't know if it's we have 50% or 60% or 25%. We have some information, but we definitely need to still glean additional All right. Anybody else? All right, that is the last item on operations and I will hand it back over to Lynn. And the chair recognizes Andrew now for

071section five, policy and governance. Okay. Uh we will begin with uh policy and rule for 443.5 student use of wireless communication devices. Yeah, I don't think it worked. Does it Can you hear me? Yeah, she fixed it. just needed to be taken apart. Good evening. Uh my name is Melissa Theelcller in the district's legal council and tonight I'm joined by a team who worked on revisions to this policy. Amy Jacob, the director of techn executive director of technology, Christina Jingle, associate director in of people services, and uh Cindy Olsen, the secondary education. So, I'm going to turn it over to them. They did the the majority of the work, and they can explain the process that we went through in these revisions as well as what the proposed changes are to this policy. Hello everyone.

072Uh when you look at the changes in the policy um we started with um understanding what the current policy was and where we felt um clarification was needed um some of the changes in the policy um in the clean um version of the um 443.5 um the policy um delineates out um a little uh clearer the what the school setting is. Instructional time defines it for elementary, middle, and high school. That wasn't called out as clearly in the last policy. And then um understanding uh a family's comfort level with a student being able to have their cell phone close to them if needed. Um putting some language in there that allows for that and then creating some systems in our schools um for handling uh cell phones in the classroom. you want to add them?

073Well, you got to hit the button. Okay. Thank you. And um really where we came to some of those changes is we did quite a bit of work in preparation for the re revised uh changes to this policy and we started with participating in DPI listening sessions. We consulted and collaborated with a number of districts to really learn about their successes, any lessons learned, any pitfalls that we should avoid. From there, we kind of took brought it back down to our district. We um were able to facilitate a listening session with our own administrators, got their feedback. That's really where you saw this definition being more clearly delineated that um St. Cindy just spoke to of the instructional time that really came from our administrators. We then brought this back to all of our administrators.

074This um draft form got re again got their feedback, gave them some time to collaborate about what that this would look like in their buildings to really um talk talk that through. We also um had an opportunity I just wanted I know you heard about screenagers but wanted to bring that to the forefront again because um in addition to really allowing an opportunity for us to provide some information for our families around safe appropriate usage of screens. We heard from our families what does our policy look like in our district and what does that implementation look like and we definitely heard that there was um a need for some consistency and we hope that this revised policy will allow that and help support our buildings with accomplishing that goal. And just to add to that

075collaboration and the the voices that we heard, we also were able to present this to the Green Bay Education Association. They brought it back to their exec council and they also provided feedback on the policy. I just want to ask um just for people who might be listening. My understanding is you had good turnout for the screen um screen screeners. There we go. Like you got a fair amount of people that came. How many sessions were there? There were five sessions um that we ran districtwide. One building ran one specifically just for their building and then we'll have a staff showing coming up here at the end of the month. And then I have interest from another community partner that wants to run another session with us. I'm glad to hear that. Thank you. Oh,

076sorry. Um, one of the things I'm wondering is, um, when you communicated with building principles and teachers, what was their feedback, particularly at the I think just the high school, but whatever level, secondary probably, um, regarding storing them in the classroom and how they thought that went, um, you know, what kind of issues still created, um, with kids putting them in, you know, storage, whatever kind of storage devices, you know, that was in a communal area in the classroom. What What was the feedback on that? So, we currently have one high school that is doing that and um they're all in favor the four high school principles of our comprehensive schools are in favor of having the same process um districtwide. So, it's not different um if you're in a different school. And the process

077would be um a a calculator caddy in the classroom. and when students come into class um being given the directive or the expectation that they're placed in a caddy in the classroom um for the duration of the hour. And so there's one school that's been doing that though you said and what school is that? Pre high school has some of their teachers that are doing that this year. Has there been like what has been the experience from that positive negative uh for them doing that? So I think if you start consistently with the expectation it goes much smoother than if you try um to implement something um once the school year has started. Uh so those teachers that found um the set the expectations clear and were um consistent with them on a daily basis

078found it to be fine and not a big deal. Um, there are some other classrooms um that use it in pockets as well. Um, my daughter attends Southwest and some of her teachers have the pockets in their room and she walks in and puts it in and it's um not really a big deal. Sorry, Andrew, if you don't mind, I'll wrap it up with one last part. Um, is there anything in this proposed policy? I read through it all last night, but I I there's a lot of policies we're on. Is there anything that requires um or can you even speak to with the idea of requiring all of the schools to all do it in all classrooms and take you know that level of inconsistency from this teacher or that school out of it

079so that every kid in our district knows that's what you do when you walk in the room. Anything on that? That is what we talked about is that every teacher at the second at the high school level would have the same expectation um or every principal would have the same expectation for their teachers and they were they were quite um in favor of that knowing that then having that same level of consistency districtwide if everyone is doing it um it makes it easier on the collective then and I'll just add to that saying that they have um time already that they've worked together to create posters that will go in classrooms that will all four high school logos on the signage just showing again that that unity about coming together and what you see at

080one building going to see at the next. Uh James, so some of my question I think has been addressed by Alex because I didn't read that consistency in the policy. I think the policy addresses that they have to be stored away in a backpack or something like that that's not just beyond their ability to to use it. Um so when we think about the policy if it really is our intent um to apply a consistency across the board and that consistency is a communal storage um environment where they they you know have to um relinquish control of that device to um some sort of storage device for the period. I just didn't read that in the policy and I don't know if it's appropriate um to go to that level of detail um and the

081implementation of that consistency. But um I I I took away some of the same thing that Alex probably took away is it felt like teachers um would still have a that conflict with a student who's trying to purposely hide it um um in in their on their body. On the second thing, and maybe Amy, this is for you. Um, I was surprised to see laptop computers listed um as a wireless communication device. Um, and so I just I want to understand the when I read this policy, I saw this as trying to control a device that was outside of the district's control and its distraction that it caused in um the classroom, the distraction to learning. So you are in possession of all kinds of techniques to filter and to control IP traffic um or

082networking traffic. Um are are is that addressing the Chromebooks or are you addressing personal computers that that they bring into the classroom beyond their their Chromebooks? James, this is Melissa. I'm going to answer both of your questions. Okay. uh with respect to the the question about the consistency if you look at um paragraph two Roman numeral two and then it is um hold this second I need to get it's it's stored I think that's D is that D B uh I'm sorry C if I look on the clean version it states um it gives the examples and then it says or any other location designated by the district so the district is designating those pockets and those areas to be stored. It's the ore when I didn't see that that there was consistency, right? It

083said, I'm trying to go back. Um, what which one was that section the clean version? It's Roman numeral 2C store. The definition of stored. Yeah, I need to switch versions because I'm on the red line version. James, while you're looking for that, I think it's important that we have those different options because middle school storage will look different than high school storage. Um, for example, middle schools will have the opportunity to store in lockers, right? because they're not using them during passing time. So, I think calling that out allows flexibility at those grade levels. Yeah, you you you do differentiate in instructional time though between elementary, middle, and high school levels. And the the question about um the inclusion of um laptop computer Amy is did I do I understand that? Yep. That is included

084in there because they can use the laptop during instructional time as noted by the classroom teacher for instructional purpose. But is that a um personal laptop or is that cover the Chromebook? That would cover the Chromebook. Um, students can bring in their personal laptops. We do see that every once in a while, specifically at the high school level. Not too often, but sometimes at the high school level. Okay. So, James, if you look at um the definition under use, which in the clean version is Roman numeral 2B. Yep. I've got it. 2 D. A use authorized by the teacher for educational purposes during instructional time. No. Yeah. I I I get it. I actually I thought I had in my mind that the laptop computer was like the new textbook and there was an expectation

085that students would be on a laptop and this policy was kind of controlling devices um that I I had just I guess maybe I came to this policy thinking hey this is to kind of remove the distractions. Um but um where I I differentiate a laptop computer from everything else because yeah, we use laptops every day in instruction. Um and they're typically we can control for its ability to voice message and connect to all of these other services that we're concerned about because they're not using wireless, right? We don't we don't control wireless communication or cellular communication but we control the the wireless communication wireless network. James if we could go back to uh on the clean version C stored for a second. Um, my understanding is that we don't differentiate between levels because we

086might not have the same opportunities across the district. I'm thinking of perhaps middle school for example for storage. Could somebody speak to that? So, when you Yes, Vicki. When you look at instructional time, elementary, middle school, and high school are called out differently. Um, you'll see specifically between middle school and high school. Middle school instructional time is from the start of the school day um or before the start of the school day and then lunch is um a time that they could use their phone and then after school not during passing time. Middle schools currently um middle school students currently use can use their phone during passing time because of the way the old the former policy is written. So, this would then eliminate the use of cell phones during passing time at the middle

087level, which our middle school principles are very much in favor of. Um, and then the high school instructional time is not passing time. It's before school, during lunch, and then they can use them in passing time as well. Could you speak to the storage though? Is there the ability to consistently across the all middle schools store it the same way? I think that's what Mr. Larly was getting at. Yes. So, some of our middle schools have lockers with built-in locks, others do not. So, that changes the ability to store cell phone in a locker with a built-in lock. Um, and then provides a little bit more complexities to our buildings where the locks are not built into the locker. However, they are still required to use a lock for the ones where you have to.

088It's not built in. Correct. So they still have an an opportunity and an expectation to have one though, right? So why so I Yeah. Yes. Middle schools have lockers with locks either built in or locks that are provided that are put on the locker that are schoolisssued. And their cell phones would be stored um the phrase we use is often away and so put away in their um in one of those appropriately listed um stored settings um in um letter C. So, and and the middle school principles also have agreed that um they will have consistent practices with cell phones being off and away and stored um during the non-instructional times. I just want to be very clear that I struggle with the openness um in the and I trust me I I respect as

089an educator and a licensed principal I I respect principles but having worked at a lot of our schools and often simultaneously this has been a problem for a long time where aspects like this when there is, I guess, for the lack of a better term, leeway or differentiation between the schools, especially with some of the transiency we see in our district. I feel like this is a major problem that gets exploited all the time. And then considering, you know, incon, you know, principal turnover and and and things like that. Um, I have seen it where these policies change and how they're enforced changes significantly from school to school and even within the year and year to year. So considering that all kids have a locker, they all have a lock, they have ability to safely

090store it if they choose, I definitely have a concern about um not the same expectation um that it's stored the same when they're not in the classroom and then also when they are in the classroom, especially 6 through 12. um unless and I would be welcome to hearing feedback otherwise but I just don't see why there needs to be any allowability any openness for there to be an a different option from one school to the next and create any possible you know situations or issues with any of the things like I just said um you asked for an example of if it could work in another way and I just want to say that um I did spend and um some time, oh probably about two months ago um uh observing at Prebble and um

091I spent about uh I think I went to three classes for in a row for three days and there was one teacher, first year teacher who clearly had said to the students from day one, "This is where the phones get stored. Turn them off and put them here." And every kid walked in. I saw I was always in there first. I washed them. They turned off their phone and they put it in there and it was never an issue. In other classes, they didn't use it. And I saw students using their phones when they weren't supposed to all the time. And so, I mean, if if that teacher found a way that those pouches worked for her, that's great. If putting them in a locker works in a different school, I can I'm fine with

092that. I would like the principal to be able to make the decision and keep it consistent within the school, but I'm I'm just saying that putting it in a locker is not necessarily the only way to do it because I saw it worked very well in a prebal classroom in a different way. All right. Um, yes, Janette. So, I'm reading the stored and in my Oh, I'm just not used to this yet. Sorry. Um, so I'm looking at the stored and the options. Locker, backpack, purse, pocket, teachers desk, classroom storage. I'm thinking about that kiddo who's got it in his pocket and like Lynn said, they're pulling it out and using it when they're not supposed to be. Why is backpack, purse, and pocket an option? It doesn't seem like that's far enough away from

093a student who maybe is a little addicted to this uh device. I can just speak to um really that would come down to the implementation plan within the buildings. But as a result of the um Department of Public Instruction listening sessions, they did release it's called I looked at it local education agency cell phone policy continuum. So it's a lot of words, but it's essentially talking exactly what you're describing there about the different modalities to be able to implement your policy. So, they talk about um allout bands of cell phones all the way to that you allow it for instructional purposes, but they talk about yonder pouches, usage of lockers, backpacks, the caddies. It's really allowing some autonomy to the buildings to pick the best storage method that works for their buildings based on the

094DPI resource. And I think what that portion of the policy allows for as well are those situations that aren't happening in the classroom where learning is happening um where we may need students to have their cell phones with them. For example, if they go on a field trip, um there are situations where the school will allow the students to have their phone on the bus. Then when they're at the event, the phones are placed in a plastic bin that's kept on the bus. Then on the bus, they're given their phones back and then when they arrive at school, they follow the procedures of where their phones are stored. If it said simply locker, that phone, we wouldn't have that flexibility. Um I do trust our administrators um to make the best decisions in their buildings

095for the situations that they're in. Um, and um, I am not sure that a school policy is going to protect any student who is truly addicted to their cell phone to keep them off their cell phone. They're going to find a way to use it. And this is to help ensure that instructional time is um, protected as much as possible during the school day by having them put it off in a way. Um, and there are students who need some help with their cell phones without a doubt. adults, too. Maybe. Cindy, you also got me thinking about the students that might need their phones for medical purposes. Um, they may need them in their their backpack or or in the pocket for medical reasons. I have to say that I believe it all comes down

096to the a firm policy by the administrator and teachers held accountable. If the teacher is not accountable for for enforcing the policy, the students will run away with it. That's where the b the buck has to stop. Alex, I just want to make very clear that if we put this on the teachers almost in any capacity, we will not see any improvement in our schools in regards to what happens with cell phones and engagement in test scores. As someone who's been recently teaching in our district for a long time, I know this is probably one of, if not the top two or three most important things that happen in our district that significantly impact behavior and also significantly impact our ability to improve our test scores. So I think that if this is laid at

097the foot of I don't think I know that if this is laid at the foot of teachers and this responsibility is put on them that is not a successful solution and and if any of this policy is set up in a way that that has it as such we will not see improvement. So again I'm in general advocating for a more uniform guidance across especially all of our secondary schools. um unless you can again give me additional information why there needs to be even the opportunity for such variance from one school to the next. So I'm again I'm waiting to hear any compelling reasons for that. Thank you. And if I could add just just one point. Um I come to the table often and I say that the the policy is the board statement

098on something and then the district then implements that governance statement within within the district. And you heard very um accurately and artfully why there there needs to be flexibility. We have kids who have medical conditions. We have kids who have diagnosises such as anxiety and depression who may need that phone for certain things. But it needs to but it is still stored in a backpack or in their pocket and is not available. we talk about field trips and and so that's why the definition of stored is the flexible way of um as written and that's why you heard Cindy and Christina and Amy say that all of the principles have asked for consistency and so that all the expectations are the same uniform across our schools and that our teachers can rely on that consistency

099in their classrooms and so the implementation will be consistent but the poly policy itself the language needs to be flexible to to address all of those different circumstances. And Janette, when I went to the um innovation school over at NWTC and they had pouches that locked and I know that's expensive and they got that through a grant and it's working very well for them. Would that be an option that could be used when a child needs to have that phone in their backpack, purse or pocket that they would would there be that many students that that couldn't be given? I don't know how easy that is for a student to unlock, but it would be a situation of, "Oh, I need to take my I have diabetes and I need to take my blood." Um,

100because I know that's one of the reasons that they might need it and I need to take my reading. Um, and that would be an easy unlock by a teacher. Is it more complicated? I'm not other than seeing them across the room, I didn't actually handle them and look at them. um and and it works really well for that school, but that's not going to work for all the schools. I understand that, but I am just a little concerned, as Alex has said, um of there being that we're going to fall back into the same thing. We've written this very new this new policy and it looks great, except you have this one exception here and this one exception here, and before you know it, we're back to where we are today. And I don't

101want to see that happen. Okay. Um, I have a few um I have a few things. Um, did you talk to students about this? Yes, like we said, um, there are many schools that are implementing or have already implemented some sort of system already for cell phones and that took place this past like they've been in route throughout this year. So student input and voice has been heard through the building leadership teams through the admins back to our team. Okay. But you only heard student input that came indirectly through that process. You didn't seek student input for the when trying to combine the policies. Okay. Um, so a couple of couple of things that I would I would point out and I I think we probably I I think we need to look at not

102having phones available during instructional time, but I think there's some um so first of all, if we if we require it to go if if any place requires it to go outside of the classroom, Now, we're not treating students equally because now you maybe can have your phone during passing time and maybe you can't because it depends if you can get to your locker between the between the passing time. Yeah. No, because in the high schools they will have the classroom storage. So, they'll grab their phone from the classroom as they're going to passing time. In the middle schools, they do not have their phones during passing time. It's only during lunch hour. Okay. But as as written, I I as written, it looks to me like a school could say the storage place is

103the locker. I'm Am I missing something? The high school principles have agreed that if you're speaking about high school, Andrew, the high school principles have agreed that the storage location is the classroom in a pocket pouch on the wall. Okay. So, that's that sounds good. But we're already we're already saying that we have some something more specific than than policy here. And the the fact is you could say lockers and be within policy. You could you could change it to backpack person. It could be within policy. You could say teachers desk and be within policy. So I don't you know the idea of the board's governance here here's a one of the most obvious cases I think for where saying that the board is the governance and the district is the operational the operational is

104everything right the operational is is everything um there could be a there could be a way that you could be within this policy And I'm not going to say how, but there would be ways to probably be using a phone a whole lot based on the operational range that's chosen here. You know, I get I get the idea of I get the idea of flexibility, but we need to, you know, we need to listen to people who have taught in multiple classroom environments. We need to, you know, Alex has Alex has lived this and Alex has gone between buildings where there were different I want to say different policies but different procedures in different schools. So if if the answer if the answer in high school is is classroom time or classroom uh centralized classroom

105storage during instruction time. That's a a step better than having a stored a definition of stored that covers um a wide range of of things. Um you know the I think I think students I think students need to be heard on this because they're going to be impacted because I don't know what the students think of it and they're not here. So, um, that's important. Um, I also don't want to see us rush this. Um, I think we should, you know, we are I would like to see us have probably have a full board before we do this. It's not an emergency to have this in right now versus in, you know, June or July. Um, and I guess I would also point out one one more thing in um, see where is it? Um,

106I'll [Music] do okay on the clean version 3E. um because of where the word may exists it makes all five of those things optional and I don't think that was maybe the intent but um because it means the things like the emergency the healthc care the 504 I I I don't think you're intending to say that the principal might or might not feel like following a 504. I don't mean that. But as written, the principal may establish school rules for the following reasons. If you look Andrew back at um section 2B, use number two says use of a device shall be permitted in the following circumstances. And then it talks about the emergency or perceived threat to manage the health care and then the 504. So then section 3E is saying that those are permitted

107uses but yet a principal can may establish rules for those for that permitted use. So if a student needs it for their their health care, do they um need to step out of the room? Do they need to go down to the nurse's office? do they need to um use it in a in a way that would be in front of all the students if for the emergency or perceived threat? It talks about um students may be asked to turn off their wireless devices so emergency communication networks are not overwhelmed during an emergency. So those are just yes you're permitted to use it but a principal can establish the rules of how that would then be carried out in their own building. Um, okay. I I'm looking back as um how however and again I

108don't I I before anyone gets the idea, which you shouldn't because I'm this isn't why I asked these questions and it isn't why I've asked these questions for many years. Um, not because I think a principal would do it, but there are ways to make there are ways to make a rule that could make this very burdensome for students and there's ways to make rule like for the for the health care or for the 504. There are certainly rules a principal could make that could be burdensome and it says that the principal makes the rules related to these these things. I think we need to I think we need to think about that to make sure it can't be um can't be abused. Uh we have had you know we have great principles here. I've

109I've also been here many years and we have on rare occasion had principles that lasted with us only a very short time because perhaps they weren't a fit for the the way we like to handle staff and students many years ago. But um so yeah, that's I think the hearing from the hearing from the students is important here. And also, it's it's important to me that the um if we're and I I this won't be solved tonight, but um we need to really look into the um equity issues about whether we're saying a a parent or guardian has to come pick something up because now, you know, people who work shifts and things are, you know, maybe can't get it. then the student is without it overnight or over a whole weekend on Friday. So

110that I think we need to figure, you know, figure that out. And I don't I don't want us to be in the business of holding on to property after the school day is over. Um Ellen, um I have a question about a certain part of this. It might be a little different than what we've been talking about. Are we ready to move on or no? Is it okay? Where in cell phones? Pardon? Electronic device policy. Right. Right. Oh, yeah. A specific line in um I'm looking at the clean version. I'm looking at Roman numeral 3 C. And I just want to make sure that I understand this. It says any headset, earpiece, or similar equipment associated with the device shall also be disabled and stored. So if I understand if this is being implemented properly,

111does that mean that if I walk into an elementary school, I will never see a child wearing earphones or having earbuds in during instructional time from the beginning of the school day till the end of the school day. And if I go into a middle school, the only time I would ever see a child with a headset or earbuds would be during lunch. And if I walk into a a high school, the only time I would see children uh wearing uh headset or earbuds would be I'm trying to find where you define it would be um passing time or lunch or before or after school. Am I right about that? Am I interpreting that correctly? Uh yes, Lynn, if you're talking about a neurotypical student without a disability. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. And let

112me also add that sometimes headphones are used during testing. Um, for example, at STAR testing, um, our littles listen to things instead of being read to, but that would be an example of approved instructional use. Absolutely. Okay. Uh, anything else on this? Oh, go first. Yeah. Just um direction from the board on this one, Mr. Becker. I mean, I I don't I don't see how I I don't It seems to me like it would be a rush to try to have this ready in two weeks. And I would like to see what our timeline is for having our seventh board member. Um not to I don't mean I don't mean August and quick rush it out before school, but I I don't think we should I'd like to see the vote delayed till at least

113the June regular meeting. Yeah, and I would also like to emphasize that point. I think there's a little bit of work to do. I do think there's some improvements from what was there. I definitely agree, but I would and I don't know if this can be part of it, but I'd like to still see it hammered out some more about how we can ensure that it's more uniform across the secondary level. Um, and anything that can have teeth to it so that we know going forward that we're not going to be in kind of the same issue. And again, I'm I I'd like to see some more work on this to have something make me feel more compelled um to want to vote for it and to again have the hopeful positive results that we're

114looking for. And there's no need to get this done anytime soon. Obviously, you know, not 10 months down the road, but definitely not two weeks or a week. What is there a timeline attached to this? I I know our principles would like to communicate something out to families so that they can anticipate changes in the policy prior to the start of the school year. Um registration for students happens in um middle of August. Communications for that go to families middle of July. Um and they would I know they would like to communicate these things uh the changes. Um they also have um freshman um orientation and sixth grade orientation. So the I would say the sooner the better. So there may not you may not feel there's an urgency, but I know our principles would

115like to have this short up so that they could communicate out um changes or what the policy is and to put this in our u student expectation handbook and that goes to print in July as well. and it has to be translated. So, just to be really clear, there is some urgency here. June would be the latest that I think it would work. Yes. Um, we'll bring it back for the work session in June. Okay. Thank you. And Mr. Larly had his hand up. No. No. So, yeah, I just am gonna agree with Vicki and I don't think so. just listening to Alex and Andrew um and reading the policy, I don't think dramatic changes to policy are necessary. I think there's some enumeration of distinguishing between environments um so that consistency can be applied.

116So yeah, I would love to be able to see this back in June. Could we get a um just for um so if we we could go we could just go to to board docs and if we just wanted to look at our a clean current is that all in 443.5 or is there this isn't one of those that pulls from other places just so I could look at I could look at the 4435 in the books right now which is a clean current and a clean new and look at those and just correct. All right. That we also have the um I don't know to what extent we were talking about these together, but then moving along to to B, we had the uh rule 443.5. Um were there any questions related to changes

117to the rule? Okay. All right. Then um we have revisions to the boardation policies and rules in the 300 series policies related to teaching and learning. Um thank you. U reporting systems and grading. Um and homework and fundraising. All right. If we could please take um policy and rule 345.1 reporting systems and grading together, that would make sense. Currently, the policy is named reporting systems and grading. It was revised to name it reporting systems progress monitoring in grading because progress monitoring is a key component of the experience with respect to this policy. The um policy was updated to add the the differentiation between that progress monitoring and grading and the purpose of progress monitoring and grading. Uh board questions on 345.1. Alex, I just want to double check that I'm pulling from my notes for

118the correct one. I think I am. Um, so just it's in regards to um grading, but that might be the next Sorry. Um, okay. Anything anything else is is the grading. So all of this stuff 345.1 um that includes the grading as well right I'm seeing that correct so if I have a question for grading that would be right now right okay so the question I have slashconern is um the part and sorry I pulled all this from the red line um but it's regarding where it says class participation and daily assignments cannot be used in grade determ determination. Um, so having my background teaching multiple subject areas, there are different ways that you assess students and there's different reasons behind that and they're not all the same, but it doesn't mean they don't all

119have different levels of validity. So the concern I have is that this and correct me if I'm wrong is requiring all content areas to not allow class participation and in this case as written and daily assignments to be used in grade determination. Am I correct in understanding that? Yes, it is. Um good evening board. Um and that gets to the heart of how complex grading is. um particularly if you're an instructor in an area where um some type of student performance is actually necessary to be able to determine whether a student has met an expectation. I think about drama, I think about PE. And so um this is where um thinking about um the differentiation within types of uh courses is referenced later in the policy. uh to ensure that again if you're a teacher

120of a performance-based class, a student would have to participate in order to demonstrate uh the skill that you're assessing. And so um that that definitely highlights the complexity of using the terms like participation versus quizzes versus daily assignments. So can you point out if at all if there's anywhere in the policy where it shows an opportunity for things like so this is what I'm thinking as a language teacher as a Spanish teacher as a physical education teacher I'm not a music teacher but these are performance-based acquired skills and you cannot acquire them and you cannot acquire these habits which you do get graded on um and are part of and are part of the state standards in certain particular content areas. Um, so is there any thing that is in is concrete in this policy

121that allows for at least some of those content areas to include participation just in a general sense? I see it as participation in the task that's actually being assessed. And so if it is a oral language quiz and the student has to speak in response to a prompt and the student chooses not to speak then you don't you don't have any data for that quiz. So therefore and and I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this. So I receive that as the answer is no because you just said only if it's an assessment only if it's essentially Sorry I cut you off. I apologize. this um uh section C of the uh revisions and also in the red line talks about the distinction between um a daily task which uh is typically

122recognized as practice um under teacher observation from those things that are actually assessed and recorded with a grade. And so, um, something like a quiz that might happen even multiple times throughout a week could be the kind of thing that would be a grade would be reported on. It comes down to the intention of why you're asking. Okay. So, I'll I'll just I'll end probably end this with this. So, essentially, no, because and again, this is where I struggle. particularly and this just happens to be my content areas, but particularly in things like physical education and language in in Spanish or any other language um your you know your ability to not only acquire those skills but also show um kind of the effective side of that learning which is part of in particular physical

123education standards to show those habits. those are legitimate standards. Um really there is no way to grade that um exact part of it without some level of uh participation. So I'm just throwing out an idea to consider um and I'd be curious of any feedback you have from the district. Is there at least an opportunity to either specify or leave room for like content areas like this, performance-based ones, or put a cap on participation? Because trust me, I'm not for any situation where a teacher has or would base a kid's grade primarily on participation. That's not good practice. But as I've alluded to, there needs to be in some content areas in particular um an opportunity for that. um I think in some cases and even if there's a cap. So just some feedback to

124consider. Yeah, that's an incredibly valid point and I and absolutely something I think that would strengthen this to be able to recognize the way that performance is needed to actually be able to assess uh certain skills. Um I think you also brought up kind of like where grading on performance goes wrong. That's what we want to ensure doesn't become common practice. things like um uh I'm going to tally every time you raise your hand and you need to raise your hand x number of times to get a certain threshold of a performance score. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the performance of something that we would say is meeting a standard of expectation that's part of the course. So, um absolutely heard and appreciated and um we'll work it in. Thanks.

125I I would like to um to agree with Alex. Um we're the two that have on the board that have been teachers and um and I know that um as an English teach students to write, the only way to get to be a better writer is to write. And I my experience was that um if you gave a student an assignment that was required that counted toward his or her grade, but then you gave them feedback and you said, "And if you try again and you do better, I'll raise that grade." And you give them feedback. And then if you say and if you try a third time and you do better, I'll raise that grade. That was the best way to get kids to be better writers and to get higher grades. So I

126I just really see the value of homework because it's practice and you can't always practice in the classroom. And I agree with Alex that there are probably a lot of times when homework ought to be graded. I just wanted to um if you're going to rethink it, I wanted you to have that in mind, too. Um anything else? Okay. And then so we had the there's a red line and a clean for that and then a red line and a clean for the the rule with the procedures. any anything on that or do we cover those both at the same time? Okay. All right. Um then we'll move ahead. We have um a red line and a clean for 345.3 which is homework. So if um grading and approaches to grading are near and dear

127to educators hearts, so too is homework. And the intent of this update is to um reinforce um Miss Gerlock, very much what you just said, the importance of homework as practice and opportunities to extend after given feedback and how that leads to uh improved outcomes. So this is um a revision that um actually names and positions homework as a as an important part of the learning process. um so much so that practice should be encouraged. Um there is um sizable research behind uh the role of homework in improving student outcomes and um the older the student the more impactful homework is because by that time the students have developed some um skills around autonomy. um the role of homework as being something that students walk out of the classroom confident to try versus that challenges

128them and has them practicing things incorrectly which then becomes very hard to reverse um is also noted in here as well. So these updates are for your consideration regarding homework. Alex, I would just like to um add that to show as much object objectivity and sincerity as I can um and clarify too potentially. Um I do not I I'm I'm glad that that's in there. I um I have I think homework is important but um I and I don't want to eat my words but particularly as a Spanish teacher because again some of this is especially based on maybe content area but I think when it comes to homework um I did not um use homework as part of the grade because I don't think it should. So, I'm glad to see that this is

129a policy um that we're making sure is, you know, likely to be part of our uniform processes in our district um because it can be expected and given out, but it doesn't it should not be part of the grade um in my opinion. So, thank you. Anything else? All right. Then we have uh under teaching and learning um policies uh student fundraising activities. Uh very minor changes to this policy is really updating the legal references and cross references as it continues to reflect the district's policy with regard to student fundraising. It looks like nothing uh I don't see anything substantive. Any any questions by board members? Okay. And then for D, we would have technology uh repeals related uh related to that. And so it's just if we're if we're delaying the if we're moving

130um 4435 back at least at least one month, I would assume we'd want to move this the repeal back or this these are not related these policies are not related to the communication policy. These are just in that chapter, but they're not. These um utilization of technology policy 363 and use of technology and education policy 363.1. Those were last revised in 2005. And those do not reflect the district's that's light years away. I'm going to probably put words in Amy's mouth, but those are light years away in in technology timeline. So, those do not reflect the district's current uh use or um purpose of technology and they really don't say anything either. The the wording is included in other policies within that chapter. So, we're asking to repeal those two policies and they're unrelated to

131the communication policy which is in um which is in a diff is in the 400 series. Okay. I see. Yeah, this is just technology is here and we should use it policy basically. Okay. Um All right. And then um Okay. So that's the repeal piece. And then we do have several under uh revisions to technology related board of education policies. So we have um we have the responsible acceptable safe tech use of technology resources and then we have a student rule and a staff rule all related to 363.2. Again, these were last updated. You'll see back in 2020 um as well as 2017. So some some time ago and again this is to update to meet current format and to meet current practice and procedures and this okay any parts no questions Um, anything with

132the either the student or student or staff rules? Looks like a lot of it is just um striking some things that came up to the policy and then striking them out of the rule. That's seems to be like the largest part of it. Okay. and then the um anything in the uh staff rule. Okay. Then we have um that takes us through all those to um internet filtering. And this is um okay just a little thing in the other than cross references. It's just any person requesting to have a site blocked should have a help desk tape copy to the supervisor or principal. Yes, that's correct. Um, how do we handle how do we handle requests to um to unblock or whitelist? Currently, we do ask that they come through a help desk ticket. Do

133do students have access to that or do they have to run it through a teacher if they think it's um incorrectly blocked. Yes, we get those requests through through staff members. Do do those um so I I know a bit about these and how you know a good I mean of if if you never if if you never have to ask for a white list then your system was probably barely filtering at at all. So it's that is a legitimate thing. um as long as they can be addressed quickly. But do we do we get are you confident that we get enough of those that we know that staff and and students too know how to initiate that like this? Yeah. Yes. They come in regularly. Um not too often enough. A lot of times

134we see somebody will ask for something to block something and if we do that five minutes later we get unblock it please. Um, so it seems like it's always a a balance of trying to find exactly where our filter needs to be. Could you give me without I don't need a lot of gory detail, but I'm just trying to picture an example of where someone would be requesting a block of something that's not already blocked. I mean just keeping it categorical or Yeah. Recently we had a request um students were re doing like a purchase purchasing project where they had to go out and research how much things cost and so on and so forth and they were researching or wanting to do um they were looking for duck blinds on Fleet Farm's website but

135Fleet Farm was blocked because Fleet Farm sells um firearms. So things like that where a lot of times um what we had another one where somebody wanted to um block Amazon but then other students use Amazon again to research prices of things for products. I I guess I I would think the threshold when someone's asking for something to get blocked that's not already blocked. I would hope that that is a very a very high bar because I I need this right is I think I have more of a right to say I need this and I think it should be pretty severe before I have the right to say hey it nobody should have this. Um so and yeah I [Music] um okay. All right. Um, anything else on internet filtering? Okay, then we have

136um we have revisions to uh pupil services. We have anyone else coming up or just um Okay. Um we are bringing some small revisions to policy 443.6 policy and rule that deals with student possession and use of weapons. This This policy is largely governed by state statute on student use of and possession of weapons. Okay. [Music] Um so there's um not a lot of substantive red lining although there are quite a bit of things in the cross references. Um any any questions on possession use of weapons? So just to Okay, in that case um we move to the rule the enforcement procedures. Uh questions on this? Okay. And then threatening aggressive or violent behavior by students. So we are asking um to repeal the rule as the information is already contained within other policies including

137443.7 policy and it is already addressed through the district's multi-level systems of support that was adopted by the board as well. And the changes then to the policy are to incorporate the language from the rule as well as some minor updates. Okay. Um questions on this? Um some of my questions were just regarding um how one in most cases students obviously would be permitted to um you know take reasonable actions in self-defense. Um just a kind of curious who determines that what's considered reasonable um and some of those types of things. Yeah, I think this is where um upon investigating whatever the incident might be um we learn and take uh witness statements, participant statements. And this might be where we learn that uh a student um pushed held another student in a you know

138some kind of a hold. Those would be things that um as rare as this happens, we would we would see in those those kind of situations. Thank you. And let let me be clear here, not that I'm trying to advocate for anyone doing anything when they find themselves in these situations, but having been involved as a teacher and dean and so on and many of these in the past, I'm just open question. Um the part where it talks about um saying that no dangerous weapons are used um in reference to self-defense. I'm just curious about any feedback or thought on that. And let me preface it by saying, you know, when you have a situation where someone is attacking you with a weapon, um, you know, how you defend yourself can vary greatly based on

139the situation you're in and the need to or possibly use something. Not advocating. I'm just curious what the thought process is and if that preludes or puts someone in self-defense um, in in any kind of bad situation. If that makes any sense. It does make sense. It's um certainly outlined in the policy that um first recourse would always be escape from the situation. So if I can just add to that, Alex, the statute on on weapons says that if a student brings a firearm or a faximile firearm to school, we are required to refer that student for an expulsion. That doesn't mean we have to expel the student, but it's a required referral. So, that's why the language is a little bit stronger in the area of self-defense when you bring in a dangerous weapon

140because there's certain statutory requirements, but the mitigation would be and what the penalty is. So, and I'm not sure if I'm making this clear, so I I'll just try to put it in simpler terms. So, if a student attacks another student with a bat, a knife, some weapon, if I'm reading this, and maybe I'm not reading correctly, it's saying that um in self-defense, provided no dangerous weapons are used, this so that they cannot defend themselves because again, if somebody has a weapon, sometime your hands aren't always going to be a viable option to prevent yourself from further and possibly significant harm. So, I guess I just kind of it stuck out to me that in this policy um potentially that again I'm not advocating, but it's saying that they cannot use anything to defend themselves,

141any kind of weapon. Um I'm just kind of I don't know if I out there possibly for um for the next meeting. I I don't know that I I think we could probably cover what Alex is talking about by just saying individuals are permitted to take reasonable actions in in self-defense because almost all of the time a dangerous weapon would not be part of reasonable self-defense. But I guess if someone was, you know, if someone was swinging a a a bat or something and I'm pick up a a chair or something and happens to hit them, that is a weapon probably if it hits them. Uh but um it's a reasonable action in self self-defense. So that um that may cover it and it would still we would still leave still leave the sentence that

142escape is you know uh the gold standard is always escape from the situation. So yeah, I guess what I where I'm coming from is I just want there to be u when a when a student is in a situation where they were perhaps protected, I would just hate for there to be a situation where they defended themsel and somehow they got in trouble, especially if it were to be a very serious situation. and you know with any potential weapon. And again, I'm not advocating for anything, but um that's just kind of where I'm coming from. Um because I've seen enough fights and um violent situations where someone starts and initiates an altercation and then if they lose that altercation, then something more severe happens. Um and it's, you know, we don't want to have any

143of these situations, but I just just I guess maybe a little bit of flashbacks to some things like that. U Melissa, based on what Mr. Becker had suggested, is there any language that we could play around with that would at least give the the message that you have the ability to def I think I think that's what Mr. Mow and Mr. Becker are getting at that you have the ability to defend yourself. number one is get away. But my my concern is and um of course my job is to think worst case scenario sometimes a a knife. So two students have knives on them and a student brandishes a knife and then the next student brandishes a knife and now we have a knife fight. In those circumstances, we are required to enforce the the

144weapons on school property policy. And so I I don't know if I I don't think that that's the situation you're thinking of. If you're thinking of um a student brandishes a knife and another student grabs a chair and uses it or uses it to defend themselves and against an attack. If you go back to the policy on dangerous weapons and it describes what is the dangerous weapon that that chair is not being used as a dangerous weapon to cause bodily harm and inflict injury. it's used to defend that person. So, I I interpret this language similar to the way both of you are interpreting it, but I'm interpreting it from a legalistic perspective, and I think we get to the same end with what you're advocating. Well, but I think your example of uh if

145two two students brandish a a knife, I I don't see how student number two brandishing a a knife back is a Wouldn't that be unreasonable self-defense, is it? Doesn't that already take care of that? Not not if you're talking about I'm in my house and someone comes to my house with a gun and I then branish a gun in a school setting. It's unreasonable. We're only writing We're only writing we're only writing for a school situation. What's reasonable self-defense? Right. or I've said through enough expulsion hearings to know that these situations get complicated and you can't always tell who who who was the instigator necessarily and who was the person who responded that it can get complicated. Um so I don't know. I I'm I'm in favor of wording that um I guess with the

146original wording James um yeah so I'm not I think I appreciate the approach that Andrew is um trying to contribute because in the case that Melissa um you know uses is there is another violation, right? So you you can you can be, you know, pull, you know, put up for expulsion because you have the knife, right? When you're talking about self-defense, it's already on us to determine the definition of reasonable in the context of that altercation. Right? So that's why you interview, that's why you get witness statements and try to determine the circumstances of that particular uh that altercation and to somehow create some limitations to effective um self-defense. I I don't know that that's reasonable. Um, I think that that will all be borne out in uh in the interviewing um and the the

147gathering of testimony around that altercation. So, just so I'm clear, James, are you suggesting that there be a late change? Yes, I would I would suggest that we can be silent on the last clause where except in the case of um you know dangerous weapon because if that person is already in possession of a d if they come onto property with a dangerous weapon, they're in violation of another pro um another policy, right? Yeah, I I understand now. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Um, anything else on this one? Okay, then that would uh that would conclude policy and governance. I'll turn it back over to Lynn. Okay, thank you. Um, so we are um at the point of adjourning into close session, I believe. Am I right? Order or point of information. Sorry. Yeah, James. No,

148sorry. Sorry. Yes. Yes. Yes. James, just want to make sure that everyone is aware that the agenda spreadsheet has been published. Um, is available. Thank you. I didn't know if I should mention that or not because we are to the point where it says agenda setting and we we never talk about this. We always just skip it. And now James has provided for us a possible way to as board members to um agenda items online. And so, yes, there is now a method for doing that. Thank you, James. I just didn't know if I was supposed to say it. Now, can we adjourn into close session? I would need someone to read the motion. Who would like to do that? Janette. I recommend that the board convene into close session pursuant to Wisconsin statute 19.85

149985 to consider employment promotion compensation or performance evaluation data or any public employee over whom the board has jurisdiction and Wisconsin statute 19.85 85 to consider financial, medical, social or personal histories which if discussed in public would be likely to have substantial adverse effect upon the reputation of persons referred to more specifically to wit to discuss the employment status of an employee. Is there a second? Second. Okay. All those in favor of adjouring into close session? No. No. Okay. Go ahead. Kinsey Canel. I Minnow. Hi, Gerlock. I Larly. I McCoy. I Becker. Hi. Hey, we are adjourned into close session. You have been watching the Green Bay Area Public School District's Board of Education meeting. Please visit the school district's website, www.gbaps.org, for more information on the district and future meeting dates. If you cannot

150fully access the information on this video, please let us know the accessibility issue you are having by calling 920-4482025 or by email at communicationsgaps.org. We will try to provide the information to you in an alternative format and or make the necessary improvements to make the information accessible. [Music]