Hudson Schools - December 12, 2022 - School Board Meeting

001e all right first up on um our agenda is recognitions and I'll turn it over to Andrea for cheers for Piers yes just took a big drink of water to get ready for this okay favorite time is when we get to talk about the wonderful staff that we have in the Hudson school district and each month we select about 10 sometimes couple more um to celebrate and this actually we had such a fantastic response from the requests that we asked for back in October that we're using them for both November and December so this is our December um winners of the cheers for peers so first up we have Tyler Hunter he's a special at teacher at the high school and has been with the district for two years he was nominated by Summers fener

002Tyler is an incredible asset to this bed team here as well as to the district the relationships he was able to form with students are incredible he can make anyone feel welcome with his bubbly personality and smile he is able to make any student feel safe and comfortable with us even when they don't trust anyone else being able to work alongside him and watch how he works with students and staff alike is amazing next up is Anne kelow she is a special ed perah at the middle school and has been with the district for 11 years and she was nominated by Paula mono uh she does amazing work with our students she cares deeply and is intuitive of their needs I'm grateful for her every day for all that she does for our students she

003is fabulous then we have Kristen Matson she's a math teacher at the high school and has worked for the district for 14 years and she was nominated by Susie roley Kristen has goes above and beyond to help her colleagues in the math department she is always around to support us and work with us when we need her Kristen has also been a mentor to New Math teachers every year Kristen is a big part of why I want to come to teach year every day she is a part of the TSS team she is co-teaching two classes this year she has over 4504 and IEP students assigned to her and still has time to create lessons that get the kids moving and motivated then we have Megan dhy she is a special ed teacher at the

004high school and has worked for the district for seven years she was nominated by a new teacher Amber Amber hargesheimer Megan is someone who always says yes and piles so much on her plate but what I appreciate about her is she's still willing to help out another coworker whenever she can students feel will truly feel like her room is a safe space and is welcome to all students who are lucky enough to get to know her she's one of the most patient people I have ever met and has such a big heart Megan makes connections with students who sometimes have a harder time finding an adult who they can trust I think it's important to recognize those employees who go above and beyond simply because they love what they do Sam Peterson another special ed

005teacher and she is at the middle school and worked for the district for 13 years and she was nomin nominated by a cooworker when it says cooworker that we give staff the option of um being anonymous if they so choose so that's what it we don't designate it here so Sam leads along alongside her teachers she is building the capacity of teachers to increase student achievement and results she generally wants education to be a desired field to work in and wants to problem solve this broken system of Education she leads by example and provides a listening ear when frustrations or problems arise she provides time for collaboration and problem solving and Advocates Administration the needs that are necessary for teachers to do their jobs well she also advocates for students and supports them in all

006aspects of life then we have Julia Miller she is a PE teacher at the Holton um building and has worked for the district for seven years and she was also nominated by a cooworker Julia has gone above and beyond to make me feel welcome and appreciated at Holton she's an amazing educator who creates very unique and engaging experiences for his students every school deserves a Julia love that then we have Cheryl clander she's a first grade teacher at Prairie and has worked for the district for 21 years she was nominated by um jod Youngman Cheryl is the most patient loving teacher I have ever ever met she meets every student where they are and shows them how much she cares about them every single day HP is lucky to have her and be inspired by

007her in addition to being an amazing teacher she helps lead the sunshine committee coming up with new and fun ways to celebrate each other then we have Jen McConnell she is a first grade teacher at North husen has worked for the district for two years she was nomin nominated by Robin rard and another cooworker I have been lucky enough to have been able to observe Jen in action she is amazing Jen teaches acceptance Independence and self-determination skills through all of her lessons students know exactly what their expectations are and are supported in reaching their fullest potential Jenna is an extremely talented educator she brings a wealth of Knowledge and Skills that positively impact students and staff every day Jen is a leader she has a gift for seeing the whole child Jen has high expectations

008for all of our students and personalizes instruction consistently to help students achieve their goals Jen students feel loved cared for and believed in Jen is an asset to the Hudson School District then we have Leah Walbert she's a kindergarten teacher at Willow and has worked in the district for for 19 years and she was nominated by Jenna wiland Leah always has a positive attitude and the desire to give more to those around her both her students and her colleagues she has spent endless amounts of time supporting kindergarten teachers around the district with all the new exciting things we are doing in our K classrooms I'm getting hold of breath sorry big breath for example she willingly offered to be videotaped singing the letter song that has been used daily across all of our K student

009or k classes in the district and even at home with kids and their families her willingness to always help out and put others before her are what Leah or what make Leah that amazing person teacher and colleague she is then we have Adam wart he is a third grade teacher at Ep Rock and has worked for the district for 15 years and he was nominated by Michelle beer Adam has been a great teammate he is full of knowledge and understanding what third graders need he's a kind ear when needed and helps me answer all of my rock questions Adam knows what it takes to be a great teacher and shares his knowledge with his team the last two are kind of a Duo um Rachel Miller and Kate B uh kind of combine the two

010because there's a whole long paragraph that applies to both so first of all uh Rachel is a third grade teacher at riverest and has worked for the district for 32 years Rachel was nominated by Crystal brilley and a cooworker Rachel is fantastic at what she does the third grade classrooms are so large and she makes time for all of her students and Kate bar is also a third grade it's her counterpart to Rachel U Kate's a third grade teacher at riverest and work for the district for 19 years she was n nominated by Veronica Guzman and a coworker Kate puts her heart and soul into her teaching she has risen to the challenge of a large class this year she puts in extra hours making sure her students receive the best education Kate's planning and

011preparation skills are like no other she's dedicated and a team player then we have the combo nomination of Rachel and Kate um that they have entered the school year facing the challenge of large class sizes and they are dynamic duo from day one they have exhibited positive thinking and maintained a student centered Focus their ability to work together in the interest of their students is quite amazing and it's an example for those around them any student in these two classes lucky to be under the Helm of their Loving Care careful considerate and creative planning and within their fun loving environment that they create day in and day out they are rock stars so that's all of them I know I read it really fast but I just want hopefully everybody takes some extra time to

012also celebrate these individual teachers each month because it's exciting to take that moment to pause and celebrate the Excellence that exists in our buildings on a day-to-day basis thank you for the report Andrea any board members want to contact comment ment further on that otherwise we just uh appreciate the report and like the recognition that these people will go above and beyond and get recognized all right next up we have citizens request speak about non-action items and we have one request that's Jessica Reeves and she's from Red Brick Road and uh has seven mindset follow amen go ahead good evening sorry that's loud I'm Jessica I sent the board members an email on Friday I'm just here to follow up with that about that email sent another one today I've been asking the same question

013for 13 months feeling a little frustrated little put out pushed to the side I don't feel like what I'm asking is that difficult I asked Tara for her assistance and unfortunately she has not been very helpful I've reached out directly to seven mindset they told me they were happy to help coming up with examples definitions um until suddenly they had spoken to Tara and she had indicated that we had spoken and I had asked my questions and they had been answered and they have not been answered I'm asking the board members to ask Nick Hara to follow through on this because somebody know someone knows the answers subject matter experts you're in the field of educating I'm asking the Educators to be these subject matter experts and if you don't know the answer I do

014believe that you can get it please help me let's put this to bed let me move on thank you right thank you for your comment next up we have reports and um we had a report that was going to be given by Dave Grano but due to um circumstance personal circumstance for Davey can't be here tonight so um going to turn it over to Nick for the teaching and learning family engagement up y uh all right so uh Dave has been uh working and and putting together a teaching and learning family engagement committee and so Tim I'll just because I can't see what's behind me I'll just say go to the next slide but um so really it's you know we've been looking at this this has been going on for a year now about

015building meaningful Partnerships between school and family um this is not a new definition the board seen this definition of family engagement um but about being intentional in our design with our staff to reach out to families and to uh build communication uh with families and keep open lines of communication and so not to uh read this to you word for word I think everybody can read it themselves but uh that was a big piece of what the family engagement committee started off with was um coming up with what is a definition of what family engagement looks like because I think everybody has kind of their own idea uh then you move on to the next Slide the three PS of family engagement as they looked at they want it to be positive they want it

016to be personal and they want it to be proactive and so really looking at our staff reaching out to families um and and having positive contacts with uh with families uh about their children and what's going on in school I know they set the goal of two positive contacts over the course of the school year for every child in the district um and that's something that that staff have been working on making sure they're reaching out making sure it's personal it's not just a a form letter or form email that it's spe uh specific to the kids so that that you know our parents understand that we are really working to try to engage them and and understand what is what is going on with that lines of communication and keeping those things open so

017that it is a true partnership um you know as we as we look for what's you know what's what are the needs of our our kids that we all are caring for uh the committee's work this year has been developing tools and resources to make it easier for staff um to uh engage family so they've been doing some family engagement activities and some different nights that have been going on um and also looking at how can they improve the uh orientation and and transition process for families that are moving into the district or new to the district and also for those folks that are going from elementary to middle school middle school to high school what those transitions look like and and how they can continue to engage families that way uh and then the

018last piece is to you know strength strengthen Partnerships throughout that Community um as they want to make Hudson a best community in Wisconsin to to raise a family when they looked at that they said how how are they going to look at that piece they're really focusing this year on these two questions what do we currently do uh that moves us into that reality and then what can we do to align our family engagement um mission to move us towards that reality and uh and as Dave talked about uh at previous meetings it's not just about the 4K through 12 experience it really is from birth until uh postsecondary uh and we've done some of that work even with our connection with the school district and uh success by six and some of those other

019different Partnerships we've we've had uh moving forward in addition to our engagement with child care providers and things along those lines to really uh expand that Beyond just um what happens uh in our in our four walls um with that and I know you may have more questions about the family engagement piece but it's it's it is going strong it is a committee made up of of Staff members really looking for ways that we can continue to uh to engage our families uh where reach out to them and uh we know that you know when we can build those Communications and be on the front end be more proactive uh sometimes when you have to have those difficult conversations you've already built that relationship you've already had those conversations it's a little easier to have

020have those those pieces uh or those conversations so with that what questions might the board had knowing that I might have to um get back to you or have Dave Dave answer of they're very specific about the committee yeah thanks Nick I I really like the proactive positive personal proactive approach to having the first call you make to a family not be when there's something tough to talk about um I'm curious how are we are we and how are we able to measure whether or not this is working the impact of this yep and so um I believe you know one of the measures we have is on the parent engagement survey that we do send out and the student engagement survey that we send out annually um but I think also when you um

021we know that kids and families that are more engaged we start to see better attendance uh with our students we start to see uh our students have more success uh academically and so all of those different measures I know they're looking at I'm not sure where their Baseline sits as far as when they you know pulled that data but I know that's been um the biggest piece is looking at attendance looking at uh student student achievement but then also looking at the feedback we're getting for our parent engagement surveys uh as we look at it and and I think kind of that um antidotal information is also like attendance at events and things like that that we're hosting are we seeing improved attendance are we seeing more people with the opportunity to engage that way

022no that's helpful I I think um there might be folks who say why are we putting resources into engaging families we're we're here for our students why aren't we focusing on our students and so it's helpful to understand that this it sounds like is actually a strategy that's helping us move the needle on some other very student oriented metrics that we might have like attendance um like um kind of not repeating behaviors that require parents to be called in ETC so that helps kind of put that in context thank you we know when there's a strong Family School partnership we tend to have more success uh with our kids and so that's why this has been a big focus of teaching and learning um you know again it can be kind of nebulous to try

023to measure as we as we work through those things but we know it's it's absolutely vital that we have a strong partnership between home and and school so other questions Mr President yes Rob I appreciate the question on metrics um from a timing perspective you know Nick we have uh the update this month when will we have a follow-up update I will have to check with Dave and and and get back to you I'm not 100% like I said I I just um walked into this presentation about uh about an hour and a half ago so once I get an opportunity Dave's kind of uh unable to be contacted right now but once we get an opportunity to get back in the conversation I'll be able to give you more of that information perfect thanks

024yep all right anything else more on this item otherwise we'll move on to the reminder about the state uh education convention and that's Nick's as well yep uh so just a reminder the State education convention is coming up it looks like in 36 Days 13 hours and 39 minutes apparently um uh it's so exciting they have a countdown clock almost like uh anything else uh but board members if you have not gotten back to Tim Miner to let him know if you are are going to be attending please do so we have to register on Thursday um for those that are going uh and so please please make sure uh if you have not gotten back to them please please get back to them uh the next one on the list is Schoolboard election dates

025coming up um just want to remind everybody uh both watching and at the table December 23rd is the deadline for incumbents to file notice of non- candidacy we did uh submit to the paper ran in November uh the two seats that are open this year uh or that are up for either reelection or open um and so that has been filed uh January 3rd is the campaign registration statement and Declaration of candidacy that must be filed so essentially the paperwork that has to be filed at the district office if somebody is going to run uh for the school board and then a couple other dates the February 21st date is a primary election if necessary primaries are triggered by having at least one more than twice the number of seats open candidates running so since

026there are two seats open that would mean uh any more than four people running for the school board would then trigger a primary election with the primary election being February 21st and the top four vote Getters in the primary election then move on to the uh April spring election which is April 4th uh 2023 so just want to make sure we get those dates out there every every year we make sure we get those dates out there and then usually at the January meeting uh what we uh usually announce that's uh January is it 9th Tim is that our January meeting we'll usually announce then who are the candidates that are running for school board at that meeting uh and whether or not there'll be a primary uh for that as well so if anybody's

027interested and has any questions about the district or what it's like to run for the board or more about the the school board more than happy to field those questions uh from the general public I would always encourage the general public to reach out to board members if they want to know what it's like to be on the board um then they can reach out to to board members and ask them that but if there's School District specific questions um and you want to reach out to the district office more than happy to uh follow up and and have those conversations so uh work through that that's all I have on elections all right any questions then about the convention or the election right see none then we will move on to action items and

028always up first is the consent agenda and I would uh look for a motion for approval of same with uh the dollars for expenditures as indicated in the materials Mr President Rob move approval of the consent items and that the chief financial and operations officer be authorized to pay bills in the amount of 2,153 452 and 50 is there a second second we have a motion and a second there's no discussion all those in favor signified by saying I I those oppos saying n the eyes have it the consent agenda and expenditures are approved Mr you have yes I was just going to say one retirement I saw one retirement yes so the deadline is um the 15th of December and we're approaching that but so far only one retirement and is Cheryl claner who

029has also just celebrated for cheers for peers first grade teacher at Hudson Prairie 21 years in the district and we're excited about celebrating her this spring good thank you for that and thank you to Cheryl for her work in the district and look forward to yeah honoring her retirement what is it going to be late April early may this year we know good question we don't know that yet um we got to work around all those calendars between the middle school and high school so my prediction is probably um late April okay very good all right next up we have school calendar for 23 24 and that's usually D yep per view so that's stand Dave yeah I am I am the stand in Dave so uh the school calendar is up there on the

030board um this is the same calendar that you saw during the work session uh Dave works and puts together a group of staff and and works through a calendar committee to come up with calendar recommendations a couple things want to touch base on this school calendar has a starting on the 28th of a or I'm sorry the 29th of August uh with some flexibility uh that we've been get given related to summer school uh and some of the things along those lines it has so our first day of school being the 29th and our last day of school with students being the 30th of May and teachers being done the 31st of May so we're done before the end of May um couple of things that uh he would want me to to add in

031there uh or at least uh address we do have um some no school days on uh the 20th of October and the 20 3rd of October uh what we got from feedback in the past from parents is instead of having two back-to-back three-day weekends where it was Friday Friday or Monday Monday off um can you try to couple them so that if they are going to be have to find child care or if they're going to want to go somewhere they can turn it into four-day weekend and so I know that's something we did this past year um and uh so that hit we've stuck with that uh in addition um similar to what we've done this year where it's the day off before Thanksgiving and then uh Thanksgiving and the Friday after and then

032we move into winter break um where students last day uh going into winter break is the 21st of December which is a Thursday and then staff have a professional development day on the 22nd which is Friday it tends to be a teacher work day that we have where they can get caught up and get everything that they need to get done prior to heading into the second half of the year uh so that is is in there where it gets a little bit bit different is in the second half of the year um looking into January uh we did move even though the end of the semester is not until uh or the end of the semester and quarters January 19th we actually because we usually have that day off since it was the same

033week we felt that instead we would move the day off to January 15th uh which would coincide with Martin Luther King Junior Day and uh and so through feedback that we've gotten from from folks and so we're able to do that um and and still make make things work uh then you can see conferences in February there's no comp day or day off after the February conferences and that was in an effort to um try to get out before the end of May and so the committee Dave said committee met um and they thought that that was a good tradeoff in order to get out uh a little bit earlier so that uh if we did have that that comp day or that day in in February what ends up happening is then the students

034last day would be May 31st and then staff would actually actually come back the following Monday and so uh they preferred it to have it that way um so we honored that you can see spring break is the second full week in March which I think coincides with what we've been doing we are in a better spot now than we used to be we used to not be able to set the calendar until we had the ACT test dates from the state but now that we do act online uh we have a testing window instead of a testing day and so um that gives us a little bit more flexibility there and um you know we're still running 178 student contact days as we has as we have done in the past in 192 staff

035contract days uh as we have done in the past so any questions about the 2324 school calendar and as we have with last with past uh 25th so now you can start to plan right so there you go well we haven't quite approved it yet I do need a motion yeah I yes that's all right we have a motion from Bob is there a second second and a second from Rob any further discussion then on the 2324 school calendar year approving all of these first dates of the year uh last day of school and all the days off and so forth hearing none I'll put it to a vote all those in favor of approving the calendar as recommended by the committee signified by saying I I those opposed say nay the eyes have it

036and the committee uh recommendation for the calendar is approved next up we have an agenda item 5c uh procedures for supporting gender non-conforming students families and staff and we just received two more all right so now we are up to uh 14 and um in the past when we've had more than five speakers um there's in in our policy there's the ability to have it shortened to two minutes and have two minutes max um I guess what we're going to do I pulled the board some of the board members and um I've I have deviated from that I think two times now in um the nine years that I've been president in exercising that discretion to short shorten it to two but um we're willing to give Folks up to three uh tonight what we

037would ask though is is um topics do not or subject uh items of discussion not get repeated uh this is a topic that has been discussed by the public at I think all three of our meetings this year September October and November and uh we have heard some of the things more than once some more than 10 times and we have received a couple dozen emails that all the board members I'm sure have read I know I've read them so we do appreciate public input we just want to try and be respectful of everyone's time and not be repetitive if we can in addition I failed to uh read this policy at the beginning which I'm you know got laminated for a purpose for me to have it at every meeting and I didn't do

038that prior to the start of the meeting but um for those that haven't heard it before I'm going to say it again public comment is for input only it is not a question answer session a time for debate or a dialogue session members of the school board will not respond directly to public comments that are made at this meeting no specific action may be taken at this meeting in response to comments that are made um or raised during the public comment this obviously being an agenda item there um is expected to be um the potential for Action though it doesn't necessarily mean that there will be but there there may be and there will be a presentation by the administration on this so a District representative uh could follow up with you and your comments

039after uh we're going to recognize one speaker at a time only those speakers who are recognized are permitted to speak we've had pretty good Conformity with that um over the years and we hope we can continue that tradition uh anyone who interferes with or interrupts speakers the board of the proceedings will be directed to leave um and then we want to avoid personal Texs on any individual including any other speaker during the public comment section session those are not acceptable as our obviously obscenities and profanity P persistence in making such remarks will end the individual's opportunity to address the board and may result in the individual being directed to leave okay with that introduction then we will begin and I'm just going to take them in the order that they're giving to me um and

040I will state your name and U where you are from from within the district and then and uh you will have three minutes I do ask is there another board member who has um well a re reliable yeah reliable phone anyway mine uh sometimes the alarm goes off car you'll do it all right excellent so first up is Sarah Movic soy from no Wood Drive I was here in November and I told you that I'm A Mental Health social worker of over 20 years neither of my children are gender diverse and that I'm here because I see firsthand what happens when children are not supported in their identity I want to be clear this policy means that kids cannot be recognized for who they are at school without their parents' knowledge and permission effectively outing

041them to possibly unsupportive or worse yet abusive parents you are forcing some of these kids to make a terrible choice either continue being addressed as someone they are not a risk to mental health or be forced to put themselves in a situation risking their mental and or physical health at home we know that lgbtqia plus kids are four times as likely to attempt suicide we know that only one out of three trans and non-binary youth find their home to be gender affirming putting them at Great risk for suicide and leaving them vulnerable to abuse of various types by fearful and unsupportive parents you are not serving our kids by acting on a policy that could lead to their abuse or suicide you have the power and the responsibility to send the message that all kids

042are valued safe and accepted here having at least one accepting adult can reduce the suicide Risk by a whopping 40% you could provide that protective Factor so I'm left to wonder why you would willingly put a child in possible danger is it your job to serve this handful of parents or is it your job to protect and respect all kids our job is not to Shield our children from information and differences to try to make them who we want them to be that is not possible that is a figment of fear unfamiliarity and ego our job is to wildly love the children we have unabashedly unreservedly and unconditionally we should air on the side of our queer kids rather than adult Comfort thank you right thank you next up is Sarah yakub from Blackwood Court

043President Johnson I had actually checked both boxes with your permission may I address both the unrelated agenda item and okay you have three minutes okay I'll do it um thank you for your service to the school board and to the community as I understand it a considerable amount of our money goes to to Milwaukee private voucher schools every year as I understand it from speaking to a finance uh person in another school district the 2020 joint finance committee voted to stop providing those numbers to school districts so while there is a convoluted shared formula um formula Somewhere In The Ether it's very hard to share with voters um to share with community members how that money is calculated how much Hudson schools are losing with our community schools on the chopping block parents have a

044right to know and you all being the Schoolboard members have a responsibility to let the community know just how much money are how much of our tax dollars are going over to Milwaukee um that's something I talked about in a recent race for State Assembly and people had never heard it before that's a derel of Duty moving on to item 5 C I believe we are turning our backs on children without suppor of families um I hate to say this and I haven't come in and weighed in on this for quite a while but Hudson schools have a reputation for being mean and bullying that starts at the top uh one example that comes to mind is when there were students who walked out for black lives matter or for the murder of George Floyd

045there were a number of students inside the school in the presence of staff on video camera flipping them off mocking them and treating them poorly what kind of culture do we have in our high school that students feel free to act this way in the presence of staff on camera with no shame no fear that they themselves will get in trouble I can't tell you how many people have come to me and shared with me their stories that in the presence of anti-Semitism or racism the administrator has responded with well was that a joke are you just too thin skinned what are we doing why are we catering to the most small-minded bigoted Among Us and I'll leave it with you know I see if members of the school board some of you have blonde

046hair but not blonde roots viewer glasses if we're going to say you know this is rooted in faith God intended you to be blind and you self-identify as someone who wants to see and wear glasses God identified you as dark hair but you self-identify as a blonde what kind of society would it be if we run around saying you're not who you are you're fake or we're going to call you something other than you self-identify that's just cruel how many children need to die in Hudson schools by Suicide for us to knock this off as former Dia can tell you there are not safe parents in this world and to be blind to that and naive to that and to turn our backs on those students is cruel we need to do better we have

047a responsibility thank you all right next up we have uh is it yala bear Jayla Jayla I I wanted to say Jayla but all Jayla bear from Aspen Dr J beer yeah be yeah go ahead all righty so back in September I spoke and I stated which you know a couple of them added on about the whole suicide risk when there is one supportive adult in a transgender student's lives there is an up to 39 less chance of them attempting to Suicide for non-binary student that's 33% with when you take into account the hundreds of Staff members in the school you you're effectively taking away that much extra support for them by the fact that you say oh you can tell us how you identify you can tell us what name you want to be

048called but unless your parents say it's okay we're just going to discar get that that's just a pile seeming pile of horse dong really um sorry I don't know if I'm really allowed to say that but it's out the fact that these students if they feel comfortable to come to a teacher or many teachers you should accept that you should say we want to be a safe person for you we see you we want to call you by your name we want to use your pronouns and those parents that are against that why Pander to them those are the unsafe parents those are the type of parents that their kids are going to be terrified to come out to them because they've probably been hearing them say transphobic and homophobic statements their entire life that's

049just crap do better Hudson Prides itself on being inclusive that's not inclusive that's going back 50 years saying well you can kind of be who you want to be but just don't talk about it that so many more students these days and Y youth are coming out as identifying as being in the lgbtqi plus Spectrum it's not really because oh it's being advertised that much more it's because it's being more accepted to talk about it's because it's less of a stigma than there used to be we need to proceed we need to as adults accept them we need to encourage that we need to Foster that we don't need to be dampering them and hindering them right thank you for your comments next up Nikki Miller of Street good evening thanks for the opportunity to

050speak tonight um I have a third grader at North Hudson uh love the school district love living here um here first and foremost this is my first time at a Schoolboard meeting first and foremost to show my support for uh the transgender gender non non-binary and gender non-conforming kids in our school district kids who've grown up in the school district and maybe left graduated out um I want them to feel a sense of belonging and like they they are included here that goes for my kiddo too um wherever he ends up on the Spectrum at any given point um and it sounds like there's a little bit of obviously it sounds like you've been hearing a lot from a lot of parents and a lot of information about the damages that not recognizing um the

051the gender identities of our youth um Can can present to them um and their well-being and their you know ability to be their full selves um within their schools as they're growing up um whether it's a risk by non-supportive parents um and I can tell you my kiddo um himself had my co-parent came out um in her 30s um as a transgender woman so and her parents are incredibly supportive um probably would have been as a kid um but she just didn't feel that support and it took that long to come out um and so it's I think it's just it there's a there's a lot of complexity to the topic of course um and it's not always just about are the are the kids going to be safe in the school it's about are

052the kids also going to feel included in the schools um and so it sounds like there's some sort of legal hangup in terms of whether or not you all feel like you even you're absorbing some sort of legal risk um or exposing yourselves to some legal risk in uh recognizing folks gender identities I I think we can all recognize that the law is not black and white um how we interpret the laws not black and white um and I hope that you all will do the work to get to a yes on this this and being able to support our students thank you right thank you for your [Applause] comments uh again my apologies if I mispronounced but Julie pritchet from Bridgewater Trail thank you thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight um I

053can say that being in the world can be a really scary place and that's as an adult think about what a student in our school district goes through if they don't have support at home and school is the last place where they can find anyone just one person to see them and respect them and accept them for who they are we have an opportunity to take this space and make it okay for these kids to grow up and be themselves there is an immeasurable value in the ability to give someone the respect to see them and say I accept you maybe you don't agree maybe you don't incourage but the ability to sit with a human being and say I respect you that gives a a student in this school their whole world can open

054up if they have just that one safe space where they can be accepted for who they are and grow into a confident and wonderful human being whatever that looks like and if we have that opportunity in this school district to offer that kind of support to our kids I think we have to take that space and make it a safe one for them thank you thank [Applause] you next up we have Talia from City of Hudson thank you for this opportunity to speak tonight um I originally was going to come up here and speak about the Department of Public construction's um guidance on keeping um conversations confidential between a counselor and a student um but you all already know that so I'm just gon to State what I was originally going to come up here

055and say um as you can see on my shirt it says be careful who you hate it could be someone you love an involved parent parent does not need a policy to be such when a child is safe loved accepted and validated in their own home an involved parent will not need a teacher or counselor to tell them what's going on with their child because their child will tell them themselves the problem here is not that children feel safer with and trust their teachers more the question we should be asking is why do these children not feel safe with their own parents in their own home these discriminatory hateful policies will not make parents more involved they will not improve standardized scores they will not increase gpas or even College admission rates what it will

056do is remove the only safe space that many of these kids have to be accepted for who they are I ask you why would you intentionally remove a space that would be safe from any child what purpose does this serve this policy will not improve our kids education it will rob our kids of knowledge and endanger their lives I'm not willing to trade truth or safety in our schools to satisfy the latest political agenda that uses our most vulnerable St students as their sacrificial lands in a culture war of their own creation I speak today in support of our gender diverse students right to come out as who they are if when and to whom they choose I stand here today because someone listening or somebody watching may be closeted who needs to see that

057there's hope and give them a reason to live another day what time remaining I will stand in silence in remembrance of the transgender div humans who have lost their lives because they chose to live authentically and for those who will be taking their life because it would they feel that they would be better off dead rather than trying to live with with rejection isolation loneliness bullying and being targeted by politicians activists school districts and their own parents pushing a gender-based discriminatory action under the guise of parental right I want you to spend it knowing that during this time we may very well lose another one of our beautiful gender gender diverse children and ask yourself was their life worth it and what part are you choosing to play in their lives and possibly their death

058thank you for your coming next up Sai Houston from Mr President she asked that we use the remainder of her time for reflection I think we should honor that okay thank you there 10 seconds all right three seconds okay well we'll be uh quiet I guess for 10 seconds thank you for your comment thank you next up Sai eon of Grand View [Applause] Drive as with the others I appreciate the chance to come speak to you on this I come to you as a very strong supporter of public education and as somebody who's been in Nick's seat for over two decades I served as superintendent in three states I've been an assistant assistant principal High School principal I've been teacher at the elementary level and at the middle school and in my position as superintendent

059and assistant superintendent I not only created policy I initiated it and created it wrote it and then administered it now this is this feels a little backwards to me because Mr Johnson I just said there was going to be an administrative presentation I assume Nick or somebody is going to tell us what the devil does that mean sorry so what what is this going to mean when you implement what's the day-to-day practice of this but instead you're going to have that presentation after we comment I think you could have eliminated a lot of questions and comments had you presented it so I'm I'm going to talk about your policy this policy by the way last month when I was here was an administrative directive As I understood it told uh the principal I assume principal

060maybe was Nick told teachers and counselors here's what you're going to do you're going to report if a kid has once a different name or pronoun you're going to report that to the school counselor and the counselor then is obligated to report it to the parents that was last month now we've got a written policy and I don't know what happened in the meantime and I think we should have known but let's look at your policy so it starts off right now it's not board policy it's an administrative practice it's a recommendation to you from the superintendent as something we should do good policy solves a problem and I would ask you what is the problem if you're trying to do as it says in here value all aspects of a student's identity as a

061large part of ensuring they feel safe seen and respected what's the problem you haven't been doing that now I I really I honestly don't understand it so so in here it says counselors are going to work with students who want to use a different name now you honored a teacher tonight by the name of Sam peerson is that correct you don't have to respond I I'm sure it's correct um she appeared to be female Samantha Peterson oh but it said Sam call her Sam yes I did call her Sam yes so she came to school as a Samantha and wanted to be called a Sam I'll bet this is Nicholas and he came to school and wanted to be called Nick your policy ignores all that it's only if a kid has a little curious

062curiosity about gender that you're going to put them under this this policy your your three minutes are up sir thank you for your comments okay one last comment if you have looked at the DPI instructions about how to handle this stuff in your comment this says if a teacher or administrator says is there anything I should know to make you few more s safe or welcome that is not a pupil record according to the law that's a teacher information or bit of information and it shall not according to the law be disclosed to parents they are not teachers are not required to report that all right thank thank you for your comments next up Deb monin from DB DB up dead monin from s Street North last time I came to see you it was

063on masks so I uh know this is a difficult topic and I want to commend you on especially the first paragraph because I think that gives you the direction that you need for any circumstance and that's that you are there to support a child child so that they become the best person they can be and if somebody shows discrimination to them no matter who it is that you take the same action and that the board responds in the same way to any things like that so that we can be an inclusive uh community and supportive um that said I would caution you about rabbit holes and for me what that is is that too many times people that either out of fear or bias are going to bring up things flags that are going to

064come up like the books the books are bad and we need to get rid of those books um the pronouns are bad and those things are going to take your energy away from what your primary intent is I guess my second point to be made here here is that I don't know what the legal course is on all of this but I do have concerns that if I go to a counselor that is private information and legally cannot be shared I don't know how that stands with a A minor but I do think the same issues hold here is that it is very hard and I can speak from experience to come out and even if you have a loving family it doesn't make it ever any easier so I thank you thank [Applause] you

065see I believe it's is it will Jenkins all right from Cedar Drive North thanks for the opport opportunity to speak up here today um I have three kids in the Hudson school system and I uh I we appreciate what you guys do um I do appreciate that you guys have put effort into creating this program however I have pretty big concerns with how it's being administered or how it's at least listed in this policy kind of expand on where I think s was going as well is you're you're creating an exclusionary process based on a judgment of a child of how they appear how you think they should appear or how they're listed in this I'd assume Skyward system is what you're referring to as the student student management system um my problem too is

066with that you will not engage in classroom or school-based practices that require all students to disclose preferred pronouns you leave out preferred names in there which is frustrating because that's part of the issue is preferred names so it this process alone requires that someone Place judgment on whether a child looks or acts as if they are a certain gender um and if that name does or doesn't match how they present and I think that's a big problem because you're creating a discriminatory discriminatory process and it doesn't hurt a dinge or non-conforming kid to just say what their preferred name is and their preferred pronouns so why do we need to create an exclusionary process that is built on discriminating against kids that do have a preferred name or a a preferred gender or preferred pronoun

067that does not match what's in Skyward on top of that I didn't see in Skyward where you can even put a preferred name in there so would it be in place of their first middle or last name is there going to be any process built to fix that process within the student management system um so I'll be respectful of your time and your request to keep this short um but I'd also like to express my support for all the previous comments on the same topic and that um I won't reread the same stats or anything like that because you've already heard it but I'd like to least express my support for all those previous statements as well thank you thank you for your comment all right uh I have an e fi from City of

068Hudson hi my name is Elliot and I'm the actual living proof of a senior in high school who had to deal with this so a week before I turned 18 this policy I don't know if it's actually a policy I don't know what to call it to be quite Frank um so I had to come out to my parents because I didn't want them to find up for my counselor the day that it was enacted basically um so I just really want to say I'm really disappointed you not you it stole my coming out experience that was supposed to be my thing and that was just really mean of you guys so here you go all right thank you for coming next up is Molly Sebert from Founders green hello good evening uh my name

069is Molly Sebert and I have can you hear me okay just back um so I'm here as a mother of three children in the district I have two at the high school one at the middle school I'm also here as an educator I've been an education for over 20 years um I was a teacher High School teacher for 15 years um and I now um I have a master's in education and PhD in curriculum and instruction I now work with pre-service teachers um in service teachers I do a lot of my research writing and the courses in which I teach are on cultivating inclusive schools and classrooms and like um someone said earlier that very first paragraph very promising awesome um when I look at the the third paragraph where it jumps into the policy

070in itself very antithetical to research best practice in terms of supporting our students and I'd love to ask you who are you centering in these conversations whose needs are you truly prioritizing um previous research about the harm that can be done with policies such as as these have been put out there so I really would like you to reconsider think about who you're prioritizing who's who you're centering and are you truly creating a space in which students identities are affirmed and back to that family engagement I'm just going to name two I'm also on that committee and that definition that was named out there before in terms of Engagement it's named right in there that you all value that we as a district value not only inclusivity but also equity and diversity and so let's

071make sure that our policies align with the values in which we're putting out there thank you all so much for your service I think we can all agree that all of us here are passionate for the well-being of young people in this District thank you next up is Tamira but from Fifth Street I spoke in November on my own behalf today I'm speaking on the behalf of uh two of my family members first my uh son's fiance who is uh she actually uh they actually live on Fairway Drive um and is working tonight here in Hudson um so so they gave me a uh a a statement to to make so this is from brie long a Fairway Drive in Hudson as a student that has already graduated from HHS in 2018 hearing now that

072trans and non-binary students are getting outed by a place that should be safe for them outing kids who have who use different pronouns and or a different name than what was given to them at Birth is wrong I have two trans siblings in the school system right now outing kids can and when will lead to more bullying and suicide as a non-binary graduate I cannot stand hearing outing those who identify differently than what you want I do not want harm coming to my siblings or to other students the second statement is from my daughter uh Naomi Brazil of Hudson who is currently studying abroad in uh Costa Rica and is watching the live stream she says um affirming the gender identity of an individual is life-saving care backed up by Decades of peer-reviewed research and

073children and teens are individuals not just extensions of their parents the Hudson school district is where I learn to evaluate problems and make decisions based on facts back back by research and that while it is important to understand the perspectives of others science does not bow to unfounded opinions I was lucky that when I came out to my parents that I was accepted but I know plenty of people who were not I know people who kept their identities hidden throughout their adolescence just so their parents wouldn't turn them to the streets and all it takes is a quick Google search to find teens who were murdered by family members for coming out or teens who committed suicide because they were stuck living as a gender they were not a a change in pronouns or names

074is not something that puts a child at risk so much that a parent must be notified in fact acknowledging the pronouns of a student can save their life I implore the school district to look at the peer-reviewed research which affirms that gender affirming actions are to the benefit of the individual okay that was from Naomi I have just one additional thing to add which is um I have had multiple kids go through the Hudson High School and Middle School um and if you're going to put a policy like this in place you're going to need to hire more counselors the counselors can't even handle the basic stuff you you don't have the Staffing to make that policy work and be safe right thank you Steve Fox from Hudson hi I'm Steve um here to uh

075echo my support for everyone who's already spoken so basically see above uh children trust adults and we need to it's our job as adults to have a stable and secure Community where they can grow up with trust and this policy here that's already written out doesn't sound sound like it feels more like uh pronoun police and we don't need it the decision to come out or even to question and that's the big thing is to question too it's a personal decision it's not up to anyone else to pull it out of them it's not fair and it's not kind thanks thank you and uh last speak on the search is River from City of Hudson is okay if I move this down sorry I'm just short so okay so I believe I spoke in September

076based the rule being possibly implemented and now that it's implemented I'd like to share some personal experiences that I've had with the transphobia that goes on at school and with the blink to be honest blank uh just transphobic policy that is being put in place um I came out in middle school which wasn't the greatest experience to be honest um I've already dealt with mental health from a very young age and in middle school that just added on because of of of the bullying I was experiencing 8th grade came along and um Dr Waring for people that deal with mental health but um I was hospitalized three times because of bullying uh based off my gender identity and I was put in an intensive dat program in nth grade because of being bullied and dealing

077with traumatic events at because of being trans and with this um rule being implemented I can't help but think um oh God how what's my mental health is how my mental health and how others mental health is going to be once this is implemented since this is implemented and how um how others are going to deal with this because I already have a lot of friends that aren't that have transphobic Health holds so um just proof that this affects mental health so yeah right thank you for your coming right I want to thank everyone who came forward talked about this issue and also those people that have submitted uh you know written comments and emails on both sides of the issue that the board has received already appreciate those and now at this time I'll

078just turn it over to Dr olette thanks Jamie so uh what you have in front of you is a memo that we've written uh because people have asked what has been the directive can somebody write down what the directive has been where where is it at and then what has been the um kind of the history behind everything uh so there were some questions early on in the year uh about uh asking uh every child as if uh what their preferred pronoun would be in school um we reached out uh to find out you know uh as far as the legal ramifications and really what what ended up happening is the advice that we have got which I shared with the board on September 26th um was that uh the the advice was the district

079should um basically refrain from doing that from asking every every child what their what their preferred pronouns are um but if the district is going to do that uh that our legal council believes that it would then be considered a survey which would then be cover by the pupil protection Rights Act uh which is uh requiring us to uh then notify parents prior to asking those questions so that um the parents have the opportunity to opt out and you know that has been the that has been the advice uh that we've been given so the advice was um instead ask the question um is there anything I can uh that I should know about you moving forward or things that you want me to know about you but not necessarily it's a survey because once

080things are a survey and they are covered under the pupil protection Rights Act parents do have a right uh to exempt their kids even if their kids do not want to be Exempted from the survey uh we are required to do that uh and so that's that was shared with the board on the 26th of September then uh there was follow-up discussion where the board had asked you know can we get some more clarifications with the attorney and we went into close session then on October 10th and at that time I shared with you you uh the D the attorney uh talked with the board and I shared with you the direction or the directives that that we had been giving the building level administrators at that time uh which doesn't deviate from the memo

081that you have in front of you um and uh so that has not changed that that has been the same message all the way all the way through then on the um 17th of October uh our attorney met with um our counselors leadership team and uh School social workers and instructional coaches uh to answer their questions and have a question and answer session also but also give the perspective behind why the advice is what what that's being given uh and and that has happened then on uh the 10th of November uh we Tara and Dave and I are invited over to the high school for an optional staff meeting where people were asked questions again uh clarification on on the director Ive and we met with about 20 staff members maybe 25 staff members uh

082to answer their questions and provide provide Direction on that um and then on the 14th of November um at the board meeting that was at the high school um the we had a speaker that uh gave a recount of what our policy was and and I uh responded at that time during the public comment portion again uh reiterating what has been outlined in this memo uh hasn't again changed and so um this has been kind of the same thing all along which is um if kids want to if if a child comes to a staff member and says uh I'd like to change my name or I think I may be transgender or whatever that may be it doesn't automatically trigger the staff member automatically going to the counselor and the counts are automatically going

083to uh the parents that has not been the the advice that we've given um and if that message has been miscommunicated we then wanted to make sure we put it in writing what it is is if a student comes to a staff member we would expect the staff member then to say I understand what you're saying what I would like to do is I would like to have you talk with your counselor so that your counselor can work with you to talk with your parents or to build the skills so you can talk with your parents so that we can have this discussion and and then we can make those changes uh if the child never feels comfortable talking with their parents about it there's not an obligation that the counselor calls home there's not

084an obligation that the that the [Music] teachers yeahnot well we're address ma'am you've had your opportunity for speaking okay we just asked we were respectful for everyone listening to everyone everyone in the room was doing that and I said before we started there's not going to be Interruption of the board all right so uh you have your um idea of what the facts are okay well Dr ol let's trying to explain what the policy is all right not what you think it is all right uh so with with that with that being said that brings us to uh this this current statement which again we are trying to balance individual student needs with uh parental rights and trying to work through that we absolutely with with without without a doubt if if if people are

085on board and parents want those changes we will make those changes in the student information system we will make those changes with staff we will do we will do those things all we're saying is this is a uh big enough issue that we believe parents need to be a part of the decision-making process and um that's kind of where we're sitting on a practicality standpoint if people have more um on the uh individual questions or practical questions you know Tera can answer those a little bit better than than I can but um that's that's where this this memo is and and that is our Direction um so that it is not a automatic if you do this this this happens that that is not our that is not our Direction may I ask a question

086no there there's no dialogue with the board with the board here all right so a really quick one even if it's quick we're not going to start because then the next person is going to have an even quicker question and so forth we're not turning into a dialogue that's why you know we you folks want to respond after this meeting is over you're more than welcome to do that all right so with that um explanation is there questions of Dr olette I have some comments okay you have comments go ahead M I lost my little microphone cover um I spent some time last week and I I cannot say that I'm an expert at all I'm not I don't have a child who is transgender and I have to say listening to the students who

087spoke that was really heartbreaking um heartbreaking because we don't want kids to be hurt by a policy that we have whether it's a misunderstanding or it's an actual policy and I have to say when I've heard people coming or saying this has been going on I've said I haven't heard that that wasn't our intent um so anyway I spent some time in the past week looking at some of the guidelines and trying to understand a little bit better what it is what are the guard rails for us um as a district and it's it's a little complicated um and I know you guys have heard us talk about the pp never heard of that until this year people rights production Amendment which is a federal law and it has um it it provides state and

088local education agencies um it prohibits them from requiring students to provide information and there's a whole uh set of eight things that we cannot ask um gender identity is not in there I would note that sexual orientation or sexual attitudes is in there but there's a whole bunch of them like income and you can imagine attitudes traits political parties blah blah blah so that's where the problem of creating a record comes in um the DPI Wisconsin DPI I thought well let's look and see what they have to say well they have a lot to say um and I won't say every repeat it all because I know some of you have looked at it um the main goal is creating safe and supportive School environments for all youth including those who identified as lesbian gay

089bisexual and transgender because it is essential for their educational success um further I know some people have talked about the yrbs which is the youth risk behavior survey so I looked at 2019 and I know we've talked about those things but it is really startling when you look at kids who are transgender um gay lesbian bisexual they have double triped the amount of bullying threats with a weapon and suicidal ideation as compared to straight or cisgender youth so we know these are groups whether it's trans gay bisexual and they are not alone that they perhaps need some special care um for whatever reason um the group feels vulnerable um the Wisconsin DPI further says that a preferred name for student can be used without a legal change for instance attendance rosters and ID card to

090reflect the students's wishes with regards to name and or gender marker pronouns regardless of the database information system the legal name should be used only where specifically required you can even go back if you've graduated and say I want my uh whatever graduation diploma that'd be the word go back to school um I want my diploma to reflect my name now and we know people change names for many different reasons they don't want their birth name they don't like it kids are known by their middle name they're known by nicknames I remember saying do not call my son Benny because I didn't want him to be associated with Benny Hill and that's how old I am I'm like no I don't like that name um and you know what he decided what he wanted on

091his diploma I did not decide I wanted it to be Benjamin he wanted it to be Ben okay um however we know pretty much that minor children have no rights they really don't have rights their parents have rights for them but they do not have rights so if kids want to change something their parents have to um sign on and we know that that's just the way it is um so I kind of come to the point where um you know kids are in danger if they are trans many are kicked out we know this we hear about transgender murders um I think what we should be doing is if we're not going to change the name or not change name or gender and the kids don't want to know I don't see why a

092student can't say I want to be known as Ben I want to be known by my middle name Stanley in the class um that shouldn't be a problem I don't think that and I'm of the generation a ex person where it's like I really don't want to know we don't care I could give a crap I don't care what person person's identity gender sexual orientation is I don't care it matters are you a jerk that's what matters so if a person who transgender is a bully they should be treated as a bully if a person who is you know blonde fake blonde dark roots um then they they're a bully then they should be treated as a bully it's completely blind it shouldn't matter at all and I think we do a really poor job

093with um treating uh taking care of bullying because it happens and Bullies Are sneaky they're super sneaky and they're never the the one at fault they're the you know they're the victim um so anyway get back to the point I think the thing that I would say is we can as a as a school district and a counselor if a student is struggling with whatever the counselor's job should be to help them and whether um that is to coach them into speaking to their guardian or their parent um about whatever it is then it should be that um I think it's a bad idea to keep secrets I think it's a really bad idea and a school district cannot keep secrets um from a family if a child comes and says I feel like I'm

094gonna kill myself and we decide well don't tell my parents we got to tell the parents you gotta reach out and do take care of those things but it's the same thing as for any other student and if a student who's transgender or bisexual wants to come out or they're in a home environment that is unstable neglectful violent that is a mandatory reporting situation so I don't see how we can't do all of these things and center the student as supporting all students in their education and coaching them to become um healthy happy adults whatever they choose to be right any other board members Rob yeah thanks Mr President so Nick I I appreciate what you're what you've described as far as the history and what's in this memo which is not policy um Can

095can you help me with why we would have a student come up here and and and and feel as if we were going to out them I and I know you're not in the high school um but I and I appreciate all the work that's gone into this and all the conversations but why why would a student not feel safe in any of our buildings as it relates to this topic why any student or the student that came up and I mean I just I guess I'm not so specific I would have to I would have to speculate Rob I I I can't give you a definitive answer that's that's an impossible question for me to answer sorry I guess more specifically so there was that the series of emails there is that audio that

096the entire board got um that made some claims there was some footage in there um is there I mean was there so something going on outside of policy or outside of what is mentioned in this memo that we're not aware of if there are things that are happening deviating from this memo we will address them and we will deal with them if the board would like something change this memo or would like us to go a different direction I we will do that um but what I guess what we're seeking tonight uh as an Administration is direction from the board as to um what they how they would like us to proceed and so this memo is based on the advice that we've gotten from our legal councel um and uh if if the board

097would like something different we are we're all ears but we just would like the board then to to tell us that yep Heather I'm sorry I yep well that's all right thank you thank you so I there are at least three attorneys in the room one two three maybe a few more but most of us are not which I think makes this a really difficult conversation because in my mind a lot of this is being driven by fear of being sued so let's just put that out there and maybe others what but I mean that's been my sense is that a big consideration here is as stewards of taxpayer resources we don't want our district to get sued right so so two thoughts regarding that one is that so when we're considering this issue I

098think we need to weigh it's kind of like this three-legged stool and some folks might feel one leg is more important than the other but the fear of getting sued the political will of the community and what's best for our kids and I lean toward thinking that we should be starting with the West westbr kids not not ignoring the other two because they're important and we've seen pendulum swim pendulum swing in other communities right I mean so I think what we don't want to happen assuming that the folks at this table want to continue serving is that we do something that really upsets a big chunk of our community and all of a sudden we have a a group of folks on one end of the spectrum or the other who get elected to the

099school board and then adopt policy that swings the pendulum back the other way I mean so there is this as much as moderation is a hor horrible word to hear there is something about being pragmatic right so so there's that piece the part to me that's hard with the legal piece and and and and the litigators maybe in the room can can reson this can resonate is that you can look at one question and get really different legal opinions from different attorneys right and so we've had the chance to sit with our attorney I've gone online and looked at some of the legal advice that that folks who are arguing for parental rights are leaning on and then I had the chance to sit in on a webinar with the ACLU you'd think they were

100talking about three different issues and three different states because they all speak very convincingly about this this is where things are at and I think what's happened in this conversation and folks that I've spoken with I've said I feel like first we have to get on the same page about okay what is our current policy and and and practice if you will and that's what Nick is helping us understand tonight because once we all understand what current policy and practice really are then we can have the conversation about is there something there that needs to change because I will tell you there was a lot of misinformation circulating and there's a lot of the um um uh there's a book that a psychologist wrote called um a walk with Einstein I think and it's all

101about how memory works and that our minds do not take video recordings they take pictures and then when we recall we have to string the pictures together and that's why you and your siblings can sit around the table and have a conversation and later you remember four completely different conversations right so I will say and there are some folks in this room whose position I agree with who have have emailed or called and and I've kind really because that's so not what I heard or that's so not what I read or that's that's so not what was what was said and so I think part of this is around I really do not believe that there was ever a directive around you are required to refer the student to their counselor and that counselor is

102required to call their parents I I really don't think that ever happened and yet that got out that that's what that that was policy and actually what we're talking about is practice because that we have very few policies actually related to this issue and so that's kind of another conversation for the board is do we need more policy and or do we need more procedure or practice so this memo is kind of a stab at practice that supports the procedure and I think yes informing the community but also hopefully giving staff some guidance because I think this is a really hard time to be a staff member in our district especially at the middle and high school level because there's not a lot of really clear answers there about what they should or shouldn't do

103like am I required to refer the student to the counselor or not can I use their preferred name verbally as long as I don't update it in the system so I think once we settle on policy then I do think we need to adopt something that provides a little more guidance for staff and a little more clarity for the community so they can understand this really is where we could where we sit and from there we can have a conversation around do we need to move our butts like are we sitting in the right spot but at least we know where we're sitting and so um I don't know that Nick that this is something I should say I don't believe this is something that we're going to resolve this evening um I realize we

104need to give give you some Direction so you can move forward but I with with the legal confusion and the direction um this this this is a this is a tough one um I personally have a really hard time I get the I should say I get because I still don't understand what the right the most right answer is but the whole thing around what do we need to change things in Skyward so that's that legal question that I think we need to decide what interpretation are we going to embrace and put into our policy um but to to to allow a staff member to at least address a student by their preferred pronouns and use their preferred name even if that's not in Skyward to me that seems like a reasonable compromise even if

105we land on the whole skyriad needs to follow the interpretation of the law um but that there again I think we need to be really clear when giving direction to staff because otherwise they're afraid that they're going to do something that's going to violate the procedure that supports the policy and that leaves us all in a bad place so that was more than my time but that's where I'm at thank you thank you okay another thank you for that others Kate I guess I hear a lot of what you're saying my concern would be that perhaps a child wants to be called by a different pronoun and the teacher's doing that and then a parent calls to talk about maybe their students's progress and that comes out the parent didn't know that there's a different

106pronoun being that they're being called as a parent myself of a high schooler that would break my heart to hear that maybe these trusted adults knew about it but I didn't and I would hope that that counselor and I heard the high school students um experience and that makes me really sad I don't think that was the intention that they've decided they're or they're gay and they go to a counselor and then that coun calls the family immediately I I don't think that's the intention of this policy so I'm concerned that either that's gotten out there or that that happened to them I would like to hear more about it um but I personally I you know this is obviously a hard topic I think the administration is trying to do their best to come

107up with the best plan I personally think that this is an appropriate policy or memorandum um and like Molly said if we do have fear that those kids are going to go home and get kicked out or be abused or M they're mandated reporters and that's their job to go ahead and say are you scared to go home tonight what what kind of things can we put into place to help you all right thank you Kate Carrie I saw you adjusting your microphone you I guess uh um I have a lot of questions too but regardless of the legal um potential ramifications is this something that the mental health advisory Council or board is um discussing and addressing it's definitely one of our topics um our next hope is to bring in the speaker to

108discuss some of the um support for staff community members as a whole but definitely on the radar okay um I guess I kind of agree with Heather that um using the name that uh the child would like without officially changing Skyward but um then the case Point um if that if that parent gets the call with a different name or a different pronoun uh could be very hurtful but also could be potentially a violent situation so I I fully get that so um not easy Mr President yeah um I I think uh there's some misinterpretation of um the goals or or the history and um I hear people say well what changed what changed about this policy um you know Nick has an agenda Mr Ballard has an agenda uh you know it comes back

109to the board Nick gave you the dates and we we talked about this we talked about this repeatedly the board was asked are you okay with this practice we talked to the attorney can't sorry um I'll start again um I think that there's some um misperception out there as far as the history like something changed I heard some people say something changed in the community what changed um really our practice did not change since the beginning of this and Nick gave you the dates uh gave us the dates of the communications we had and um the conversations with the attorney and um the board is some people say well the board has no idea what's going on well we we we do have an idea of the practice it was discussed it was agreed upon

110by this board and you know I've reached out to peers in other districts and we are very thought of as very reasonable approach with this knowing that there is um current things going on in cases in other areas that will determine the law in Wisconsin moving forward um the madis Madison Case was talked about as being um a definitive it was a dismissed on standing so it's not really a kettle Marine case that's going in right now that's very interesting and and could be very telling um personally I I I understand um I I don't understand trying to um have two separate two separate lives coming out in a in a high school situation fraught with 1500 kids that talk and as far as could to as that being the one safe place I I

111I don't know that a high school is the safest place and it and to have a a policy where where we're asking teachers and nursing staff and to to protect by by a name and then a parent finding out through you know through other ways I it takes the control that that student had away as well and I know I'm not saying this the best way and I'm but you can't you can't put this on on our Administration you know we are we are looking for a reasonable approach here and you know we're we're trying our best to come up with something that that is protected for all we have to realize that bullying is the main thing here and we I I don't want to make light of it but it is very difficult

112I I agree with what katea I agree with Molly put it very well about the situation where we are um sorry sorry for for speaking very poorly all right I don't know Jamie can I make one addition I do I think it's important to clarify um because again I don't want people to think that we are misrepresenting um the the question about has anything changed so I think Nick Nick is very transparent about here's what we've said in the past four months and it's been pretty consistent in the past four months I think one thing that has changed and we're talking about policy and practice is I do think it's accurate to say that there were things that were there was practice in our district that now staff have been told actually aren't aligned with

113policy and so I do think you know people are frustrated because they're saying it almost feels like a step backward because teachers used to be able to do this they used to be able to do that whether whether staff knew it was happening or not um but now they're being told no because of our policy and this this um Direction around what that policy means you can't do that anymore so I just I feel like we should acknowledge that for staff for students it does feel like a a change it is a change because they're being told you might have done that before but you can't do it anymore surveys around preferred pronouns Etc you know they happen in the past so I think it's important to acknowledge that that more itudinal that there there

114is for some teachers for some students a change in what's permitted even though honestly since we've started talking about this for the past four months the messaging has been pretty consistent from Administration about we have very limited policy on this we're going to try and provide some guidance on practice and then this memo is I think for the first time trying to put that guidance into print and I hope we will be able to get some more detail into that guidance both now and as we move forward but I just want to acknowledge that because that's that's real to students and staff in our district that that feels like it is a change yeah and yeah thank you heather for that comment um I think that the difficulty of this uh situation and this whole

115circumstance is indicative of the fact that every comment by every board member is correct nobody is wrong here all right everyone um everything that's been said is correct this memo is exactly what my understanding was when this was first explained to us four months ago it just wasn't in writing before and you we are a policy making board all right when you do policy you do your best we already have a policy that does U talk about anti-discrimination not just with race and gender but gender identification and sexuality we already we have that I would like to see that you know enforced emphatically I it does break my heart to have bullying going on and we want to be able to root that out and stop that just like we don't want any student um

116to be feeling unsafe or to be exposed to dangerous situations at home so that is correct and if you go through each of these paragraphs now some of the things that some folks have said that they understand the policy or when I heard it explained that's what I heard I think Heather that was a very good comment that you made people can hear the same thing I have four brothers and yes when we get together and we remember things that happened 40 years ago we remember them differently and it can happen even if it happened four hours ago so um the attempt to come up with something that provides a practice you're never going to have every possible factual scenario um accounted for in any kind of written policy or even a a procedure guidance

117such as what we have up here on the board um the board has been supportive of the policy as it was explained and I have not heard anyone say that they're not supportive of what's in this memo now putting it into practice and having these specific scenarios of nicknames of course I mean uh somebody put it out Molly did about her son and I'm an example of that everyone that knows me knows me as Jamie but my legal birth certificate name is James and I don't think that there was anything wrong with the fact that I was referred to by Jamie by everyone so I I have that same uh issue with being able to have a teacher I mean for my math teacher um you know he was also my wrestling coach and he

118called me um a different nickname that wasn't Jamie I was fine with it um and I never told my parents what it was there's no but no um quote unquote forced outing here in the sense that we want to have teachers counselors be trusted adults there's no doubt about that and we can um what's the word I'm looking for we want to support um those relationships but what we don't want to risk and jeopardize is the Partnerships and collaborations we have with parents and with families we had a presentation about family engagement and um yes this is about students but students don't learn without the support of families and our preference is to have the students have the support of parents if that if that's not possible it's unfortunate but again um I see it

119if the student is not ready uh to discuss that with um the family and then they continue to work with the counselor I'm in favor of getting the student in that position and we're talking about Minor students Molly indicated that really the the rights are limited as it's been explained by our Council and again and Heather's also a right that different attorneys can see the same case and come up with different interpretations but we have to go this is not necessarily about the fear of being sued and for those folks who have submitted that in their emails if you don't do it our way we're going to sue you um I guess then that's going to happen this is not something where we're setting policy based on a fear of being sued or not we're

120trying to do the right thing it's not an easy issue as I stated everyone here has their um comments that they've made they have all been true um and we want to be able to do what's in the best interest of all of our students um I I don't know what more to add other than I support the other comments the other board members have made if there's others that want to make more comments but I would entertain a motion at some point um as to direction for the administration on this issue I guess I would just go back I I think at one point during your comments you said something that like the board is supportive of what's here um I I I I think early on one thing and this might be I

121misheard but the part of this that I'm not comfortable with and not supportive is the way that it's laid out in the third paragraph I really do think we need a path for students to be called and known at school by their preferred names and pronouns even if we don't get to the point where that gets changed in Skyward I I like the idea that we strongly encourage and support them um you know really try to get encourage them hey let's see if we can't get you to a point where comfortable talking to your parents about this and students know their parents better than we do so I think that you know if there's students that really can't go there I also I I believe in the state of Wisconsin There's Something About once you're

12214ish you have the ability to go to court and make this happen I think we should be letting our students know about this I mean yes they're 14 and they're these are young people with a whole lot of agency um so I think we need to treat them as the children young adults that they are and and give them the tools um I I hear what you're saying I think we need to let students know if we don't go to talk to your parents if they don't know about this if we don't update there's a chance I'm going to get so used to calling you by your preferred name and pronoun that when your mom calls I'm going to call you that you know and and and the student then has the ability to make

123that decision that I am not ready to go to my parents um so I that's that's the part that I would like to see changed in this for me to feel supportive about moving forward with it as guidance for our um for our district okay yeah and I and I think you know I think that's that's the biggest worry some piece that we have as Administration is we know that whenever that conversation has to happen with the child and their parents that's a really that's a big conversation and the last thing we want is our teachers to feel as though they're trying to manage two sets of names and they accidentally call home and use the wrong name and all sudden as the kids walking into the house and the parents hanging up the phone

124with the school and all of a sudden the kid is blindsided by this conversation with their parent that they weren't ready to have that they weren't feeling comfortable with because the one thing we do know uh is that we will not operate uh without um potentially messing this up I mean we have a lot of Staff members in the district we have a lot of moving Parts as Bob talked about you know different people that come and go in the building and so that was part of the rationale behind not changing those things until that conversation is happened but also not saying to the child that because you told me I have to tell your parents we we've never wanted to go down that to go down that route and so I think that's that

125has been that has been the big piece that has been somewhat I think mixed up in the communication of this or whatever that may be but um it it's it's trying to it's trying to find that balance and I think it's not if you don't agree with me or you don't agree with with this person or that person that you're automatically against them it's trying to get to I think everybody's trying to get to a good spot for all of our kids and people have a different opinion of what's you know what's the best way to get there um and and I think that's the challenge and as Jamie said there are lots of legal interpretations as Heather said is but at the end of the day when we talk about getting legal advice I

126would encourage the board to take the legal advice from the people that have to defend you um giving you the advice or the advice um not that and and I would absolutely agree uh the reason we have courts is because two attorneys will look at the same thing and say it reads totally different if they didn't we wouldn't have courts that's why we have them and so um I guess really what we need and and the way this came about is people say what do I do right now some people say well can we put this to a longer conversation we can have the longer conversation I'm just asking you how would you like us to act right now because that's what staff wants to know what is the direction as of right now what's

127not the not what's the direction in 6 months or five months or in three months and that's kind of where this came from where this directive came from is what is the expectation as of right now and that's where this that's where this started it was not from ill intent it was not from any type of transphobia it was not from any type of not wanting to support kids it was trying to figure out in a most practical sense how can we be supportive of our kids how can can we be supportive of our staff so that they are not bearing some of these things on their own we know that our counseling staff is better equipped to handle these conversations than our than our teacher staff not that they can't be good at this

128not that they can't be a trusted adult but we don't want them on their own uh holding on to this and I think somebody brought up if somebody was to do something or if a child because we know these youth are very vulnerable uh and and we know through the ybrs data that more you know more likely to have um metal um suicidal uh uh situations and things like that we would want to get more people that have the training working with these kids not fewer people and that was the intent behind this it was not to force out kids it was to make sure that we didn't have a staff member that's trying to manage this on their own they don't have the training to manage this on this on their own a child

129does something that we don't even want to speak of and then a parent coming back to us and saying how could you have not told me my child was struggling with this I could have gotten them help or for that staff member then to have to live with potentially I didn't make the right choice and this child did XY or Z that's where this came from it wasn't from a place of not wanting to be supportive of kids and that I just want to make sure everybody understands that's where we were coming from this it was not it was not because uh we are not supportive of of children that that um happen to be gender nonconforming that was not that was not the intent and so what I what we need because our staff

130needs it is what is is is the board okay with this direction do they want changes but we need we need some decision by the board so that we can move forward so that again the people in the community can move forward and know what the directions Mr President go B um as to what Nick was saying that's one of the struggles I have is that I believe an audience member said you know one one caring parent can make a life-saving difference in a child's life and so when I look at some this where if you're if you're not trying to um advise that child to communicate with a parent you take that away and um yes mandatory reporting uh for for potential violence but I just I just can't see keeping secrets from parents

131like Nick said it better than than I can is that if something happened to get that word I had no idea my child was seeking um advice was struggling uh that does happen I know loving parents that had kids that came out and the kids did not want to talk to their parents first they wanted to come out in school I know that that happens I'm not denying it um is is it is it the best way for the school to be able to serve that child though I that I can't guarantee you okay Rob so Nick you're you're asking for you know Direction tonight and certainly there are seven seats seven seats at the table here the the I have is that this is a really important memo and you're asking for direction um

132I'm not an attorney although I know that you've spoken with our the school district's attorney I'm not a school psychologist I don't have a transgender child it's it's it's difficult for just talking for myself um to provide to you any kind of Direction um this is certainly better than what we had um but as far as where to edit what changes to make how to make it better um how to make sure our teacher staff and students feel um that they're getting strong positive direction from this I I don't have any I'm not qualified to provide that direction to you Mr President okay yes Heather I um I think it was Tamira who said something like while it's important to listen to everyone one science does not should not bow to unfounded opinions I mean

133that there is research on this there are best so so yes there might be a time where a parent could have would have and so the question is how how often is that the versus the other and there's research on that that we can look at and say so as a district if we're looking to research what is the evidence-based practice for supporting these Youth and my is I haven't looked at it but that it would lean toward it's supporting them in school not to say that there wouldn't there couldn't be a time where a parent would legitimately say my goodness if you had told me I think I could have done something I don't want to minimize that but I feel like this is one of those cases where as a as an institution

134of learning that we should be looking at what does the research tell us about how to best support transgender kids and that's that Mr President yes Molly in my extensive research on the DPI website really this um they had three things that school districts should do and one of them is an anti-bullying policy specifically enumerating um protections for gender identity um or expression or sexual orientation and of course it applies to everyone we should have I don't know I think we do have a lot of bullying I really do um then also training teachers on Intervention strategies um and knowing what to do what to say um all the things and then the other thing is having school Bas school-based support groups uh or clubs like the GSA Club U or Alliance excuse me GSA

135Club um so doing those things and I really feel like you know 15y olds that's really hard it's hard to be a kid and any kid can benefit and I I would call it coaching and I would say coaching work how to problem solve um and this is why we have social emotional learning and I know this is a really difficult topic um and it's not seen the same way by everyone but we do need to have kids know how to work through problems so um I think it's an opportunity so I don't know how what we can do in some of those things I know we do some of those already but really focusing on helping kids Mr President yes hea if if we're looking for Action tonight the action I'd be willing to

136support so the motion that I would be willing to make is that Administration um move ahead with a an expanded version of this guidance that provides staff with the ability to use students preferred um pronouns and names while it explaining to them that they can't make that official in the system unless their parents are involved and offering to connect them with counseling resources that could help them engage their parents to get to that point that's the action I would be willing to support tonight so that's a motion okay so I'm just to so I'm clear are you supporting that the basically the memorandum be amended to include that well I'd like to see the memor memorandum um expanded to include some more detail in general but specifically that would be the substantive change to the

137guidance um would be to that third paragraph is there a second to that second okay we have a motion a second further discussion yes I just I know it's not going to be popular in this room but we are all in a different kind of nice to have different views um I will not support l to parents and I think that's what we're doing if we do that I absolutely will not all right and um but I also point out that Heather's motion well it uh could possibly you know be basically we're adding things to the memo or are you saying that you want the administration to look into it and then see how it could be amended before coming back back correct okay correct so then in the meantime if you know that's going

138to take at least one or two meetings before we get to it so then the question becomes beg begs the question what do we do in the meantime what I think the underlying Direction where that motion to pass is pretty clear and I would hope that Administration would act accordingly um I also wonder and I don't know if it would ever get you to a yes vote on this one Kate but I think part of what I was trying to say is let's not lie to parents let's be straight with kids so that they say you know hey if we don't bring your parents in when they call um because I'm not in favor of lying to kids parents but I am first and foremost in favor of supporting our [Applause] kids Mr President R

139so Heather I I struggle a little bit with with what you said um the the struggle that I have with the the motion is how do we with the intent of keeping our kids safe and within the memo it talks about uh working with the kid to better prepare for a conversation with their parents and if you know we move forward and our students that the staff are all um it's approved to start using their new pronouns their new names and what have you um you know we had River stand in front of us today talking about um The Bullying situation and and what have you if if getting back to the if the parent were to call or a staff member were to call that parent and they have not had that conversation are

140we doing are we creating potentially more harm and that's the I want to be I think every student should feel welcomed and and know that school is a safe place but at the same time I I want to make sure that every student is embraced and properly prepared to you know have that conversation and I could be and again I don't I don't have a trans you know child I I don't know much about this topic I'm learning more but if if our main intent is to educate and ultimately protect our kids does does your motion do that and if it does that's great and if it does I'm supportive I just I want to make sure that we're not lying to parents and you know that our most importantly our kids are safe I

141I don't I don't know that there's an approach that would work better uh you know I mean that I just I'm not sure there's a good solution here I think it gets us a lot of the way and again and this is why I appreciate Nick your comments about our counseling staff being the ones who are really trained to have these conversations with kids I think we need to engage these kids in conversations about this request and what it means and what it could mean and I think we should say to them because we we don't want to lie to your parents I mean I think that I think that's okay to say to them um yeah I I think to not go that dire because we're afraid that we might make a mistake down

142the road feels feels like I don't ever want to go to Hawaii CU what if I wanted to live there and I couldn't you know like I still want to go to Hawaii it's still a good thing even though if ultimately it might create some dissonance so I mean that's really trivializing my vacation plans and the struggles that our trans kids are going so I hope you will humor me with understanding but I mean I feel like I don't know how to get it more of the way there given where we're at right now but this to me feels like the step forward but so going to Hawaii is different than a child coming home and their parents saying here's your bags get out and I and I hope I just acknowledged that so that

143was that was triviz it but my point is I don't think we shouldn't do a good thing because we haven't figur it out all of the way to the Finish Line um and and may I mean maybe these kids can help us figure out the way to the Finish Line I would love to see us engaging these kids in this conversation um cuz they know their lives much better than we do maybe they can maybe they can get us there all right Heather so are you advocating then you talked about the third paragraph and we haven't um I'm assuming you're talking about the middle sense basically taking out the part of until we have parental consent and then instead allowing teachers to use different names and pronouns and what's in the um um the school

144system yeah I mean I think we should be clear that the student information system isn't going to be updated so their formal name in the student information system can only be updated either with parental consent or if they go this other route that I don't understand where you go to the courts but that but that for practices of their lives at school um that that staff can use their names and I mean that actually that brings up probably a whole another legal question which is my assumption is once they are legally updated in the system with parental consent then you run into discrimin like like staff actually have to use right their preferred names guess ing that if it's not there then you don't have to so they could have some staff members I mean

145I don't know who are going to say I'm not I'm not going to use that name and probably there's not legal standing to ask them to do so if so I mean that's again the legal mumbo jumbo but I don't know how long this memo can be but um but those are some of the questions again I mean I have a feeling more questions are going to come up as this rolls out because we're going to realize oh we didn't think about that but this could be a dynamic document as long as we don't completely change course and confuse people and those questions are why I would have trouble supporting that this tonight I would want to know more about what this looks like and what how it would be uh put into practice with

146our staff um I think the reality is it's letting our staff go back to how they were practicing before September where it was where it was very individualized I mean like it was I will do that or I won't except that we're now would be formally giving them the permission to do that Mr President yes what a would a potential U change to this policy be in the third paragraph simply removing the sentence until we have parental consent we will Contin continue to use the name provided by families just take that out and uh make it clear that at no time will it ever be mandated that parents be contacted if um without student permission and to to the point though that uh we've said or it's been said that uh you know we we

147move forward as we figure this out uh it it shouldn't be shouldn't lose the point that we are um these are children's lives and uh we could be endangering them with a policy like this by by allowing the names um as we feel we're trying to support them so is there other comments so I guess I I I I I don't have any Clarity on this direction so are you saying that the motion would be that the member would stand with the exception of you would allow staff to continue to use preferred names and preferred pronouns whatever whatever the child ask them to use is that is that what I'm hearing the board say or at least what I'm hearing the motion say because right now we're saying they can't use them until parent permission

148so the opposite of that would be you don't need parent permission to use those you can use them parental permission would would be required if they want them formally changed and we would That's the Law the parent permission is the Law related to their Student Records but so so the motion would be to do the opposite of this one which would be without telling parents go ahead and use different names and different pronouns I I'm not saying I'm not arguing one way or the other I'm just I want to make sure I'm clear so that as we draft the guidance for staff I understand what exactly it is that you're voting on and that everybody else knows what they're voting on and then um I know how to draft this for so yes the motion

149would be that staff be permitted to use students preferred names and pronouns that the formal names and pronouns in our student information system would be updated only with the involvement of parents and that in a situation like this staff and counselors would work with and encourage the student to involve their parents but not require it and that and I like that and I like what what Carri said that we make it clear in the memo that in that at no point are we going to force uh not call contact notify a parent about this without the students's consent I just have to say however if we if a teacher mistakenly does that then that kind of goes against what you're saying or responds to a phone call or right right yeah there's the formal notifi

150like I picked up the phone and called and said hey I wanted you to know about a conversation I had with your kid today but there's the the what could happen where it's a a regular parent teacher interaction and something is said that all of a sudden notifies the parent that the kid is using a different pronoun or name in school yeah any other comments questions I guess with regard to the motion that's before the board I uh don't think that I would be able to support it without having a discussion with our um legal councel um and because this is um much different than what was discussed by the board on prior occasion this hasn't been the direction of the board before and so until we have the legal advice discuss it in the

151close session like we did previously and then give better guidance to the administration I I can't support amending this policy here at the table I feel like that might be needlessly delaying I mean my recollection of our conversation with legal councel is that she said the safest route would be to not do any of this until until um until parents are involved and that as you step away from that you are putting yourselves at risk so I mean I could be wrong I don't know if anybody else remembers that but that's kind of what I remember hearing her saying and so and I guess my follow-up with question would be and if she says yes this would put you at risk does that mean we're not going to support it and that's that's I guess

152that's a question for each of us to think about um but again legal risks come how much there there are levels of legal risk and how much of any legal risk are we willing as a board to take on to do if it is indeed to do what we think is right and if it's the legal legal opinion that is perhaps keeping us from voting in support that's something to think about Nick could the kettle Marine case have direct effect on this and make this whole discussion yeah the the the kettle Marine case will I would assume be probably the most definitive case right now pending in front of uh the Wisconsin Judicial System um and because there's there's no question about whether or not the parents have standing um because they it it directly

153impacted them and their child uh related to The Kettle Marine case and so uh whereas the Madison Case there was question about standing because they were hypothetical situations um brought by 14 Anonymous plaintiffs that's not the case uh in the kettle brain case um and I think you know and it's I know everybody is is boiling this down to just legal exposure um I I think and this is where you know the the the question would be too is what would be our direction to staff if a parent was to call and ask them Point Blank has my child talked to you about this or has my child direct you know asked you to do a different name what is going to what is going to be the board's directive to staff um because as

154you can see this is not an overly easy topic um to there's the legal side but then there's also the side of um whether or not uh people's opinion are that the parents should be involved in these decisions this memo is going to air on the side of believing that the parents should be involved in these decisions and that the child can't make the unilaterally okay if you want the other the other direction I I just it's it's more than just what's our legal exposure and I think that you know this mem was written from a standpoint of we believe these are really really really big life uh uh decisions and that the parents should be part of those decisions and that um the child is not making those on their own and um but

155that's that's where the that's where the memo was written from uh so I just I everybody keeps wanting to say oh well we don't care about kids rights we only care about being sued um we get threatened with lawsuits all time so it's not about whether or not I mean we we obviously if we've gotten advice to go against your legal advice is not usually the best way to defend yourself long term but it's in addition uh to that is also you know the belief that parents should be involved in this conversation more than just the legal uh defense and I think everybody keeps boiling it down to the legal defense it's not just that it's also the the parents being involved I think we're creating an artificial dichotomy my guess is that there's no

156one in this room who would not say yes in the best situations we want parents involved in these situations this isn't about the best of situations this is about the situations where the teacher talks to the kid and the kid says uh-uh I can't do that and I mean I think about and I don't know how they all relate but as the parent of a 16-year-old daughter like I know there are some things that my daughter right now can get health and mental services for and I don't have a right to know about it because at some point someone's decided there's a reason why some things we we we support the kid and the decisions they're making and and the parents are kept out a little bit I don't know if this is a parallel

157situation but I think again I don't I don't want to create and I think we have to be careful about the words that we choose as if can write it this way or this I don't it's not about do I don't think do we or don't we think parents should be ideally should be involved in their kids' lives it's about what do we do as a district in cases where the student says that is not an option and how do we respond well and I think you know and that's and and and that's fine I I just want to make sure we understand where where where we're coming from and we have gotten the legal advice that uh school counselors School staff do not carry the same patient doctor confidentiality that you would get in

158Mental Health Services they just don't there is no there is that that just doesn't exist people can say it exists they can want to say it exists but it unequivocally there are like two carots in the law they happen to deal with drug and alcohol abuse the attorney went through them very extensively and so the there is we don't have the ability to keep things from parents that that is that is just the the bottom line and so um you know we there unless something changes unless there's a new case or new case law if a parent ask our expectations is either a we tell them or B you're you're going to you know the staff memb going to not be truthful but there's there's no I can't tell you because my job doesn't permit

159me to tell you that that that does not exist we have been given that advice rather clearly um that there is no uh confidentiality piece there as it as it relates to that that just doesn't exist okay yeah Carri uh how about um until we have parental consent we will continue to formally use the name and and still make it clear that uh for the students that it will not be mandated that this will be communicated to their parents unless they're ready for that so it doesn't prohibit a teacher from using a preferred name but it it's acknowledging that it won't be it won't be formally enforced that that chosen name or pronoun yeah I I I have to lean on kind of what Jamie said that's that's a different direction um I I would

160say that um I think I think the part about not mandating is is articulating what what you've been saying and what we've understood not Mand we absolutely put that in there that it's not mandated that because a child comes to a teacher they automatically have to call their parents or the counselor we can absolutely you know put that in there that's not the same as changing somebody's name and pronouns those are two totally separate toally so absolutely I think we can add that component of not um requiring that I I don't think that's in dispute the big thing that becomes in dispute is before we actually make some changes and I know people wanted to uh they're not happy that I kept talking about experiences at school and it was a broken record but before

161they want something different a different name a different batham use a different pronoun is that that conversation is had with parents before we do those things um but absolutely just because a child comes to a teacher or comes to a counselor and says I think I may be this or I'm struggling with that or things like that that should not automatically require that that person to call home it's that when they want that different um be treated differently at school because of that that's what the original intent of the memo was and that maybe wasn't specified enough in in there we can put that in there but then there becomes the point of what do you do in the meantime between the time the kid comes and talks to you to the time there's the

162parent conversation and then what do you do and this is essentially the kettle Marine case is the kid talks to the parent parent says no I don't want it changed I want you to pause for a minute on this and the district says no we're going to honor what the kid wants regardless of what the parent wants the parents now are suing Kettle Marine that's why it's kind of a definitive case of who rights Trump whom's you know in that in that in that process um and then the student was pulled from school and and that process but um we absolutely can put in here there there is not a mandate that a staff member because a child came to them and said I you know I may be gay or I may be thinking

163of transgender or or um you know those kind of conversations that automatically means that convers ation needs to happen with the parent it really comes down the line of if we change the way things happen at school because I think the other piece is when you don't make it everybody doing the same thing I don't know how we would have a child's first period teacher call uh them one name the second period teacher call them a different name the third period teacher call them a different name that's usually why we try to stick with and that's where I think I would like to have students involved in this conversation because I'd like to know will they say hey if I can get two teachers to call me by my name and acknowledge me by my

164pronoun I'll take the two teachers if that's I mean if that's what they say then I'd say well then they get to deal with the other six teachers that don't in lie of bringing their parents and informally changing things um I'm just I'm not comfortable moving moving ahead supporting a what is this PO proced memorandum um that doesn't allow for that acknowledgement at school when it works recognizing that there's other stuff to work out and I and I think I my my guess is is the having the same experience that that I that I I can make sense of that and I think there are a lot of times when kids parents kids don't have the experience at school that they would expect but we aren't notifying them I would expect my kid eats lunch

165every day she doesn't nobody's notifying me that she doesn't eat l i mean so I think there are other times when kids don't have the same exper and so I feel like we've kind of glommed on to this one with that not recognizing that there are a lot of times when parents don't know exactly what's happening every minute of their students day and we probably can't make sure they know exactly what every minute of their student's day is like so I so I guess that's I mean we can table that motion if people aren't ready to move ahead without actually seeing and writing kind of what we're supporting but I wouldn't I'm not able to support this as it's written right now well the motion is to adopt um and amend the memorandum but particularly

166to remove the par paral consent um requirement before different names and pronouns are used that's the motion and to add the piece that clarifies that we're not going to immediately call parents or whatever yeah and I well I don't I'm not hearing that second part that you just added I don't know that there's any board member that says that that shouldn't be in there I think it should I don't know that you would say we wouldn't call a parent I would kind of leave that alone I would say we'll use your preferred name and there's nothing wrong with using a preferred name on a roster isn't there so with the idea in mind that teachers have lots of students and they're going to get it wrong once in a while so I I would not

167put anything about parents or not parents or I think it's a of worms I mean as much as I think you know morally kid should be able to decide um I mean it just legally goes back to kids don't have rights good or bad so Mr President U separate from this memo I think something you said quite a while ago now uh regarding the non-discrimination policy is that it needs to be more strongly enforced um I think that's a key point that we need to recognize that a huge amenable Le exists and U could be better addressed okay well I've heard discussion about potentially tabling but we've got a motion we have a second um I'm not hearing further discussion um all those in favor of yes I guess if there was any change I'd

168like to see it in writing before we would vote on it agreed agreed I think we need a little more time to have this get it right rather than shortterm urgency I'll entertain a motion to table then and so moved second all right we have a motion and second there's no debate all those in favor of tabling uh the motion for uh the exact wording of the memorandum of understanding for the what the procedure or practice is in implementing this um subject matter uh signify by saying I for tabling I those opposed say nay the eyes have it and uh the motion is tabled so uh quick question what exactly would you like us to what would you like us to write uh and bring back to you is it what the motion was that

169Heather made is that what I'm hearing you say I I just I just need to know what a pro you're a legal question is is it would it legally be permissible as an example for Kate and I to work with you to to give you feedback as you're working on something is that legally I realize the whole board can't like exchange emails because of walking quarm Etc but I think you know being generally in the same place about what we're trying to do but having some unique perspectives about what we want to make sure we address is that allow because I don't envy you trying to go back and take this conversation and now put it into four new sentences or whatever I I mean well I think it still comes down to a vote

170of whether or not the vote was to table the motion so we didn't get a vote on the motion so now we still um are we saying that we're going to allow students to change their own name and pronoun without parental consent well and that's the revised thing that will come back to our next meeting right so my question was can Nick confirm with a few board members as he is working on that revised memo to come back to the next meeting or not is there a can he do that I mean I'm assuming he can because yeah no I I absolutely can but you know in the meantime you know then does this directive stay in place until something else changes is is typically what would happen until the board takes action and say

171no we're going to change this directive this would stay in place until uh until a new directive or or new directions given well there would no reason to table the motion if we had the exact wording right so so it would be that this would stay in place until there is a new a new M right and that was I mean honestly that was the reason behind my nay vote is as much as I like get that we have to get it right it does mean that it's another three weeks or so that we're we living with guidance what side meet the week it' probably be at the regular it probably be at the regular board meeting I would say January 9th so yeah three weeks is New Year our our next meeting is January

1729th so y okay all right well I guess in again drafts of this memorandum was given to the board with the agenda um I imagine a new draft would you know be given to the board before there would be full discussion by the board Y and and just so you know I mean I won't I won't send it to I mean if I send it to all of you it's not going to be let's let's word Smith this back and forth outside the meeting I mean that's literally what the meeting's for is for everybody to share their perspective in front of the public uh so that the perspective is not you know behind closed doors um absolutely can at least create a draft with one or two board members to work on it um but

173then once I send you guys the draft memo the expectation would not be that the board is talking about it conversing about it interacting about it until the next board meeting is when you guys would actually start talking about it because otherwise that would be in violation of the open Mains law which means you have to have those conversations in front of everybody can't do it and I assume that for those on the board who enjoy word smithing they would be permitted to send you suggestions for how we might say something and then you would be able to take that into consideration that would be a way to they can send direct directly to me y well if if it's going to the 9th if it's going to the next board meeting this basically a

174small committee reforming uh why wouldn't we just discuss it at the at the committee meeting or at the work session I mean I I don't know it's whatever you guys would like to do again um I would like we had attorney input on I'm assuming that this memo would run past Shaina and she had approved this one and I would want to see it run past legal before we word Smith it or sit here and redraft it as a group on January 9th so I think it should be with with councils and if you prefer I mean we can we can draft it as a board policy and do the standard readings instead of it being a memo we'll just draft a board policy and then it'll go through a first reading a second reading

175and then a final approval Nick doesn't that fly in the face of the council we were given originally written memo kind of does that I mean that's um you know I think that's the at at this point especially if it's if it's uh a direction the board wants to change and it may not be that all board members are on the same page then I would recommend that you go down the formal policy procedure process where we draft something it goes to First reading goes the second reading then goes into adoption based on what the board decides because typically we would not have board members drafting administrative memos that's why they come from the administration and not the that makes sense to me I mean that's the r policy right so so no if an

176administrative board member board sorry administrative memo is not something that the board would you know review edit what have you then why does the board need to approve it no you can do it at the at the at the board meeting you can you can I'm just saying we wouldn't typically get two board members outside of a board meeting help draft an administrative memo is what I'm saying yeah but absolutely you guys could review and edit at a at a at a board meeting say yep we are supportive of this or no we're not supportive of it and that's really what we're what we were looking for you know to kind of to kind of start with so um but if you're wanting to have more of drafting of the you know more formal process

177draft language then we could handle it like we would handle any other board policy processes and come up of the draft and then the board works to it through the work sessions and then the regular meetings um that process so our next work session to be able to do that would be um the January 23rd 23rd yeah that would be our next work session work session so if in fact you didn't need Council on just redrafting this memo you could present that to us next week we could we could discuss it and then approve or not at the January meeting and just keep it as a memo no is that correct oh I mean I guess what I I've heard one board member say they wouldn't want to vote on it until it's been approved

178by reviewed by the legal councel and so whether it's a board policy or a memo we can have it reviewed I I can't guarantee we can get it reviewed in six days okay drafted and reviewed that's why I said it's probably more likely to be more of the January time fr than than 6 days from now I think some wise words were said that I think it's important that we get this right and so I wouldn't want to do it in a vacuum from legal councel or making comment that legal council giving us the guidance on whether or not this needs to be a policy or whether it should remain a administrative memo um and so I I don't think that can be done in one week so so I would say let's put this

179um on for the next work session which would be the January 23rd pending getting some more input from legal councel and potential drafts of you know changing this or enacting it into policy because typically our policies are not this detailed no right is there any thinking different than that I'm not hearing any next item on our agenda is financial considerations of capital and operating levies and Elementary facility planning and this this uh item it's it's not a big discussion it's just we're going to be talking about this next Tuesday night I hope to have the budgets uh Matt sent pre-budget late this afternoon haven't really had a chance to review them him and I are going to meet tomorrow uh via Zoom to go through it on the um direction that the board gave the

180last work session he will here next Tuesday I just wanted to see is there anything in addition to the budgets and I should have them for you tomorrow so you have them full week before the meeting is there anything else you would like me to have ready for you I know Rob had sent me an email earlier today about um Financial impacts related to mill rate things and I'm going to work on on that stuff is there anything else that people would like to have um for that meeting okay well as far as additional information no I think that we have had you know a few straggling emails on this issue of financial considerations of capital and operational levies specifically addressing closure um we've had I think all the board kind of weighed in on

181that at our last regular meeting and I just want to while we're this is being filmed here right now is there anybody changing from that direction so that we're not going to do another about face and talk about closing any schools within this next referendum not for me all right I'm seeing a lot of shaking of heads so I think that uh you know that we can go with that we've done some winnowing of different options and yeah what'll be bringing into the budgets related to Ep Rock North Hudson in the middle school and that was the feedback that we got from the board at the last work session as to focus our efforts on those three buildings at this time and so that's the most detailed budgets you're going to get on Tuesday next

182week very good all right otherwise uh there's nothing more on that agenda item what we have remaining is uh we need a motion for a Clos session so moved oh damn it sorry I have to read this okay the board will I move I said make a motion that the board board will entertain a moot motion to convene in close session pursuant to Wisconsin statute 19. 851d to consider strategies for Crime detection and prevention I apologize second all right uh Carrie beat you by a second there Rob but uh good job Molly on the motion all right um all right it requires a roll call vote so Garza Whitaker hi Logan Hi Johnson I Bowman I Powers I brown I all right uh the eyes have it we are now in close session we will

183have a break for convenience and reconvene in the library yeah okay and then we will be a journey from uh the close session thank you for