Board of Education Workshop - December 1, 2025

001behaviors. And uh the goal was to model this similar to the last workshop we had and just have a little bit of information that we present some context uh talk about some of the challenges and strategies we put in place to address uh student behaviors and some of the concerns we've heard. and then to just have a free discussion about um uh you know um where we we've been and where we're going and what we can do in the meantime. Uh the one caveat to this is that we're going to talk a little bit more general because there's a lot of specific situations you might want to know about but we can't talk about in this setting in an open meeting. Uh, and so, um, if you hear us dancing around things, if it's a

002specific situation, it's because we're doing our best to give as much information without, um, you know, being specific about things that could lead to identif identifiable information that could even be the the school building, right? So, we just want to be careful about how we're talking so we protect uh, our students privacy and and the rights of our our families. And so with that, I don't know who's gonna kick us off. All right, Amy's up. >> Good evening, everyone. Um, so I'm going to kick us off this this evening and give you just a real zoomed out version of how we think about behavior in our school system. Um, from there, Shelley and Stacy are going to get into some of the details at the elementary and the secondary level, and then Kurt will kind

003of wrap up with some of the deep end discipline pieces that we have in place. Um, like Dr. Engel said, uh, this is not necessarily exhaustive. We're going to talk about a lot of things at a broad level and we're happy to get into as much detail as we're able to provide to you about any specific wonderings you have. Um but so I want to kick us off just thinking about how we think about behavior um in the school district. Uh really the core philosophy that drives us is that when you think about a student that doesn't know how to read, we don't punish them into learning how to read. We think about behavior in the same way. Um if a student is struggling with behavior, we approach it from a there's a legging skill,

004there's a legging um knowledge set that we we have obligation to teach the student before we get into more restrictive practices that might lead to discipline or removals or or anything like that. And so rather than it being a will issue for students, we really look at as a skill deficit for students. And um so from that perspective, we focus primarily a lot of our attention on prevention efforts. Um at the school district level um and in all our buildings, prevention really is about teaching students what we expect, whether it be teaching them what behaviors they need to engage in to smoothly get through the hallway or to use the bathroom appropriately or to um ask a question in class. like explicitly teaching those things to students. Um it also includes um teaching uh how

005we regulate emotions, how we problem solve when we have conflict with peers, how um we understand our feelings and how to cope with big feelings and how to um strategies to use when we have big feelings instead of things that are disruptive or or dangerous to others. Um and so we put a lot of effort um everybody in our school systems from our teachers to our teacher assistants to our our cooks and custodians put a lot of effort into how do we teach how you engage in the settings that you're going to um be in in the in each of our schools. Um by doing that we anticipate and we see through our data that 80 to 90% of our kids by giving some of that prevention universal teaching of things do really well in

006our schools and have very very minimal um challenges over the course of their their career. Um but we know that sometimes teaching doesn't work for all kids. And so what we have um systems in place uh that allow for collaborative teams at all our buildings to look at data around um how students are doing, where they're successful, where they're not successful. And when we see kids that are having more challenges in a specific area, whether it be behaviorally or emotional regulation is a a challenge for a student, they look at data, they get together as a team, and they problem solve around, okay, what's what's happening here? or what are some root causes and how can we match an appropriate response to those root causes? Um whether it be more intensive teaching um working with

007the school counselor, school social worker, school psychologist to like explicitly teach skills or do small groups um to learn social skills and how to interact and um solve conflict with peers um to uh just getting more practice around things. Um, sometimes it's about providing reinforcement and giving some motivation around things, but a lot of times it's about just getting enough practice. We've got young minds that are learning all sorts of new things about how how we interact with each other, how we um how we work through the big feelings of our friends and the feelings that brings up in us. And so we really try to provide space um and intentionality with people that are highly trained in that um to support um full transparency and why we're here today. We understand is not about

008those situations typically. It's about the big stuff that rises to a level where it becomes incredibly disruptive in classrooms or potentially unsafe in our schools, right? Um and those things happen. Um but our system's prepared to respond to those and has a whole wide variety and continuum of options to to support that. um at that level, at that real intense level, it's about bringing our teams together, but including community agencies, including partners in the community, including families at the table. It's about providing wraparound supports. Sometimes we find that kids have disabilities that are leading them to have these behaviors and we get special education supports in place where we have resources to provide more intentionality. Sometimes it means we need to look at what their school day looks like and what where their core instruction

009is happening. Um, sometimes it need we look at length of school day. Sometimes we have to look at places for instruction that are not in typical settings, maybe not even in our schools. We have a whole wide range of those options available to us um that I can't emphasize enough teams look at the data determine what's going what is underlying going on so that we can match how we ensure um our classrooms can be a place of learning for all kids for all kids including the kids that's having challenges at time. Um, but that's a place of learning and it's our schools are safe and that we are still responsible for the teaching and learning of students that maybe need to have something different in place. Um, just want to make sure I don't miss

010anything here. Um, but really that kind of reflection on we start at the prevention level that gets most of our kids. Sometimes we have 5% or so of our kids that have more more intensive behaviors that can be very disruptive and unsafe and we have a wide variety of options to support that. Um Shelley and Stacy who I'm going to hand it off to next are going to talk some of those specifics of what that actually looks like in our elementary level and in our um secondary level next. So we'll start with our highlight. So there's an ongoing tension with behavior. It's the need of the classroom to be a productive learning environment and the need of the student to learn, you know, and sometimes those two are in conflict with each other. You know,

011how do we best support the student and the classroom? And so that's an ongoing tension sort of things. >> Correct. >> So we'll start with our littlest learners first. >> Yes. All right. Um, thank you for having us and asking us to be here tonight. um happy to share with you all of the things that we do um at the elementary level to provide a strong foundation um and work to prevent as many negative behaviors as we can. And so I'll kind of give an overview of some of the specific strategies that we use at a universal level. And as Ammy talked about, universal is those things that we teach to all students. expectation. 80 to 90% of our students respond to that direct instruction um that um we provide at the elementary level and

012I'm sure Stacy will talk about it too at the secondary. We really do have a very comprehensive system of strategies and uh frameworks that we use um to support our students and to explicitly teach and model and practice and reinforce all of uh the expected behaviors. Um one of the things that I've learned years ago um is that you can no longer assume that students come in with the skills needed to be successful in school. So that becomes our responsibility as Ammy talked about to explicitly teach those. So our first probably major framework uh that we focus on at the elementary level is you'll hear it referred to as PBIS, positive behavior interventions and supports. Um I would say we work really hard at the elementary level to implement uh this framework with integrity. We

013have uh teams of teachers as well as coaches in the building. Um and the whole school is involved in this as well. You'll see this uh evidence of this also in their school improvement plans. Very much uh data driven. But our schools have three um embedded within PBIS is three primary school rules. Be safe, be respectful, and be responsible. And Owen's smiling over there because all of our kids uh we we do actually assess and we do walkthroughs through the building and Kurt's team do and ask kids like what are your expectations at school and they they know what those are but they might know what be respectful is the words our responsibility is though to teach kids what that looks like and we are very specific about teaching what being responsible respectful and safe

014looks like in the bathroom and in the hallway in the classroom in an assembly in the cafeteria, in all the different environments where kids would uh be in our buildings. Um we want them to know what that looks like. So we teach it, we practice it, we uh give them reinforcement, acknowledge it, and then if it's not going well, we retach it. Very much though a data driven um system. And then um we also specifically teach social emotional learning uh in our schools at the elementary level. We use a curriculum called second step. We are in our fourth year of implement implementing that. Um it is very structured weekly lessons taught by all of our teachers in the classroom. They do focus on uh the competencies regarding um social emotional learning. So self-awareness. If I'm

015a student, am I aware of my emotions? So if you think of our littlest learners, they may not they might just be feeling funny and they don't understand that I'm angry or I'm frustrated or I'm anxious, but it can erupt with a big behavior. So starts off with just the self-awareness. Then it moves into self-management. Okay, now I know I have these emotions. Now what do I do with them? And how do I begin to manage them in appropriate ways? Um social awareness, right? I'm aware of uh my surroundings. I have empathy for those around me. I see other people's perspectives. Also focuses on relationship skills. Do I get along with others? Um can I maintain healthy relationships? Um do I know how to listen and communicate? Um negotiate conflict in [clears throat] a constructive

016way. So those are things we teach. Um and then also uh responsible decision making. So to make those careful, thoughtful, constructive choices. Um so that's something very very intentional that takes place in our building. We do also have coaches coaches in our building that monitor to make sure that are um we are teaching uh those lessons each week and it's not just like a oneshot teach them it's teach but then reinforce uh throughout the week um with our students. And then we also at the elementary level have what's called responsive classroom. So that is um a framework also that's very student centered. It integrates in the academic along with social emotional uh learning and relationship building throughout the school day. So if you've got little kids, you might hear them talk about, well today I

017had a morning meeting or a closing circle or I got to figure out how to put my marker lid, you know, on and we practiced this or we practiced what to do with the geo boards. So very specific uh strategies that teachers use in the classroom to build classroom community um and relationships within their classroom, but also a lot of intentionality that goes um into that. We did uh training at the district level. It's probably been training that's been ongoing for about 20 25 years um in uh the district and in our region. uh just trained all of our teachers probably five years ago and then have ongoing uh teachers throughout the summer going and doing that training as well as PD I think this last two PD sessions we had a principal who offered

018sessions on that. So ongoing professional development there. Another strategy that gets used heavily, I don't think they use it in the secondary um but is called the zones of regulation. And so that's also a structured curriculum um designed to help teacher or students with self-regulation and emotional management. And so I always found as a principal and as a teacher um I loved this. It gave us a common language. And so we it equates to the four colors. And so how you're feeling. So the blue zone is I could be feeling tired or sad. Um maybe I don't have a lot of energy. Green zone, I'm calm. I'm focused. That's the ult the optimal zone for learning. Uh yellow zone, I might be a little anxious. I might be a little excited. Um in red, I've

019got some pretty um extreme big outofcontrol um emotions. And so when we're teaching that with students, we're also teaching them skills and strategies for when I feel that way. It's not bad to be in the red in the red zone, but I have to when I'm in the red zone, I have to use strategies to manage my emotions and then also to eventually bring myself down uh back to green, which is the again the optimal place for learning. So for me as a principal and a teacher very helpful to sit there and say boy I can see that you are in the red zone right now. How can I help you and talk through that? Because sometimes that's easier to talk with a kid than when they're still learning frustration and um some of those

020subtle differences um in emotions. Um our teachers the last uh year and a half we've also uh been using the catalyst approach and we have trained them. Um, and those are all strategies for them to use in classroom management um, and engagement with students. As a matter of fact, in the district right now, we have two coaches um, that have come down from the cities and they're working with our new teachers um, on these and they'll be here today, tomorrow um, and Wednesday. So some ongoing training that we provide and that's primarily for our teachers and just how they set up their classroom space and how they set up instruction uh so that they can be also in that as proactive um as possible and as clear with students regarding what uh how they would

021like them to uh interact in the classroom. And then also another universal strategy, all of our staff or at least most I I'm pretty confident in saying all, but um I'll go with most um have been trained in trauma-informed uh care and really the practices that um that go with that and recognizing oftentimes years ago we were like, well, what's wrong with you? you know, when a kid is acting up, but really thinking about more what has happened to you and that your behavior is communicating uh you what um what is going on right now and it's a form of communication. So that is another uh different lens that we have provided in recent years with our staff. So, as Ammy um talked about, so we do all of these things and and layer on

022this comprehensive system of uh frameworks and strategies, but despite all of our best efforts, we're still going to have kids that are not going to respond always to these efforts. Um, and they're going to require additional supports. Um, and we know all it takes is one kiddo in a classroom uh to kind of derail the teaching. And so, we want to be able to uh provide early intervention. um whenever possible. And um so at our at the elementary level, we have what's called regulation spaces. Almost all of our buildings have some form of regulation space where when a kid uh a kiddo is struggling, um they can go and they can take a break. Um for example, in uh a number of our buildings, I know that they'll walk in and so I was referring

023to zones of regulation. They will walk into uh regulation station. They'll basically do a check-in and they'll sit there and say and we want them right to be aware of their emotions and they'll say, "Well, right now I'm in the red zone." And then we'll work through a variety of strategies, work, move, breathe, uh one, two, three breaks of a number of different things that work uh with our kiddos. Um and then check in then with them again. And if uh they're feeling uh much better and in the green zone, um then we make our way back to class. So, regulation station um used significantly at the elementary level. It's just a place for kids to go and safely take a break and get back control um of their emotions so they can uh rejoin

024their peers in class. Uh we also have what do they look like? Um well, the one a lot of them have Joe's been Oh, they're not here. Uh Joe's been great about uh like some of them have monkey bars and >> Yeah. And then like we used to have at Spence like a blueberry where kids could also get in and cocoon. Some of them have hanging swings. Uh a variety of strategies that they can hopping. They can uh there's like with a work move breathe break. Um they're working large uh gross motor um for two minutes then they're moving. So they might be running in place. We change it up on a regular basis. So there's kind of almost like stations um within there. And then also like an area for breathing. So for calming

025down, figure eight breathing, hot cocoa breathing, any one of the strategies. Um >> yeah, usually um oftentimes our behavioral um our student success coaches uh are either kind of stationed at times there uh or if a student needs a break uh they will call to the behavior coach. Some some of our for some kids a a break is uh proactively scheduled. So, we know that they do well if they have a 9:30 break and an 11:00 break and a 1:00 break and those are proactively uh where the uh coach will go and pick them up um and take them down to to get that break. Other times it's you know a teacher will call and just say I think you know such and such is kind of in the yellow zone and so I think

026they could use a break and so then it's a place for them to go. It's not punishment. It's not consequences. Most kids um enjoy going down there and do find that it helps them to regulate. So if you walked into them, it like oftentimes looks like a fun place. >> About the size of the classroom, half the size. >> It's about Well, it depends. I mean, I would say some of them are maybe, you know, like I 10 by 15. >> A decent office size space. >> Yeah. >> Can I share a quick anecdote? Um, in the kind of ideal classroom design project that I got to be a guest judge for at State Road, all of the students when they're thinking about what is in their classroom and the space that they want to

027be in, they've all incorporated these these different spots, the calming corner, different zones, the places that they want to be able to go or that they're thinking about their classmates that like, oh, people might need XYZ and they're building that to their sense of what their needs as a classroom are. I thought that was amazing. >> And that is a a key strategy in responsive classroom that they have a take a break spot um or a calming corner. Some teachers will have a little tent set up, others uh just a cozy corner, a variety of different sometimes it's a space between two objects with some pillows and fidgets. Um and that allows them uh and you practice that too with kids, right? often as a teacher I would go model it like I'm feeling frustrated

028I'm going to go back to the back of the room and I'm just going to take a break and I'll fidget with something and then come back out. So lots of proactive teaching to where also if you go back there like it's not a shaming type of thing. It's just you know we all recognize that at times we need to take a break. So and that is you know explicitly modeled too by by a teacher taking a break so they realize it's not a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, how not to be so negative here, but I know it happens because I've heard of it. But how often do you get somebody that just don't like what's being participated in the classroom or something and all of a sudden they're in the red zone

029and they just want to get away. They don't want to do that project or they don't want to do. How often does that happen? I mean, obviously there's people that do take advantage of it. Yeah, I I would say um our teachers, especially at the elementary level because they spend all day with their kids, they get pretty attuned to that pretty quick. I don't hear very often that it goes on very long where a kid will take advantage of it. Um typically, uh kids are really good at identifying when they need something. And we always use classroom spaces first where they don't have to leave instruction um before they go to other spaces to to get that type of um activity. Um it might happen a couple times with the kids, but the adults will

030clue in on it pretty quick because they know they know their students. They know um what they look like when they're really in the red. Um and and and if it's a kid that can quickly trigger truly into the red because they want to get something else, that tells us something about how we might approach in the future how we address behavior. >> And are the teachers assistants also trained in this because there's such especially elementary, they're such a key role part of each classroom. I mean these poor teachers in some of these classes, >> bless their hearts. So are they also well trained in this area? Because [clears throat] I know you brought up teachers are being trained, but are the teachers assistants and that being trained as well? >> Many are. So most

031of our teacher assistants in the elementary level are in special education. Um and so sometimes special education has spaces, sometimes they use those regulation spaces that all kids use. Sometimes they have their own spaces in special education classrooms that um allow for perhaps some bigger behaviors and more privacy and whatnot. Um so teacher assistants that work in those spaces certainly know sometimes teachers are trained to go on breaks with kids or counselors or or social workers. I mean the principles I've seen take it going into spaces and supporting kids. So, it it's really something that anybody with a relationship with a kid can can be taught how to use that space for that. >> It's certainly not our student success coaches that they're the only ones that are utilizing these spaces or supporting kids. >>

032Yep. >> Remember like I feel like a certain part of my childhood has been fully unlocked by this. I can still see the little maroon signs uh with the expectations what PBIS actually means. I had no idea. Um, the regulation station, I had no idea what it was, but I remember going in there one day and being like, "This is the coolest thing ever." Like, I'm looking around like the um little like cocoon was in there. It was great. Um, I would like it was just it was a super spa safe environment and I really appreciated that my fellow classmates would have that space. And to your point about students abusing it, I do think teachers catch on very quickly. By like the third time, they're like, "No, I think you're okay. I think you're

033just doing >> well." And you do have those discussions. I remember having discussions with kiddos. Maybe if we have to go there all the time, this isn't an effective strategy for you and we need to try something else. >> Um, so you have those conversations too when you know that they're just trying to get there because they want to go to the space. So, but yes, teachers are very much in tune with that. those that are working with them. Um, and then just kind of a couple of other things. We've got school-based mental healths. Our counselors do a great job of working with students um, in small groups. We also um, very appreciative of our student success coaches for behaviors. Uh, they are a vital part of supporting our kids um, and our staff. So

034it's not just, you know, they're coming alongside staff too also in looking at the room and the environment and strategies um that uh they can do to support things not only universally but for that kiddo. But uh they're also working on plans with individual kiddos. They've got the time to do that. that I always knew as a principal I was primarily reactive because I'm Bbop here. But there are some kids that then you can react once but then you want to go into more of a proactive intentional mode of figuring out specifically what a child needs. Maybe you'll start to see a pattern that that kiddo goes off every day at the beginning of math. So if you can push someone in to support them for the first five or 10 minutes or at a

035particular time um then they can remain in uh the classroom and be successful. So um but they're also ones that are coming alongside the principal too and they're called and they're supporting kids uh in the classroom and uh in a variety of spaces. So very appreciative of the uh student success coaches for behavior that um has been added in recent years. And >> can I have an anecdote for that? Just just because I just heard this today from one of our behavior success coaches. Um she talked about this kiddo who fourth grade um was really saying some pretty not kind things to the teacher and becoming really disruptive in the classroom and the teacher was getting starting to get like super offended by it, disconnecting from the student because when the student telling you that

036they hate you and all these horrible things all the time, it's hard to that relationship building can get impaired. um this behavior success coach kind of came alongside and worked with that teacher and they just really dug into what was going on. They actually found out that it had more to do with academics than it did with actually behavior and they dug into that the child really struggled to read so was having a hard time in the classroom and really started to target the reading skills instead. And once that happened, he grew three to four grade levels in a single year, started to develop a relationship with his teacher and is really doing strong, like really well now in fifth grade. Um, but if it had just been looked at as here's a kid who's

037mouthing off to his teacher who's disrupting the entire classroom, let's get him out of here, we may have missed like some underlying things that not only helped the classroom environment and the relationship, but also like taught this kid to read where he wasn't before. I really appreciate that anecdote because in in in looking at the high level approach to discipline and behaviors, I think all of us probably grew up in a very different system and and for me the tension is always in figuring that out. I mean, and I struggle mightily with this as as a parent with, you know, three little ones all in elementary school. And the the tension is between what worked for me, right? Um, and and and what is not working now and why is it not good enough? And

038I think a lot of people out in the public would probably be hearing like what these different structures and PBIS and and anytime you use the words data driven around much student behaviors, I think eyebrows can go up and having a really concrete example of what it means to identify root causes and act on it in a way that you see not only behavioral improvement, but an associated leap in educational attainment. >> That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. >> Yeah, >> it's a cool story to hear. >> It is. Yeah, it is. and all of our our we want our academic and our behavioral coaches to when they're working with kids and teachers to wear both of those lens and realize that one can be causing the other and the you know and vice

039versa. So just because I'm an academic coach doesn't mean I'm not also working with a teacher when we're designing lessons though to also set up a classroom that's engaging so that I'm also proactively working um on behaviors. On the flip side, we want our behavior coaches to also be able to recognize when it is um something academically that's triggering a kiddo. Um and then PBIS uh just as a final note um has a number of strategies too of interventions. Check-in, check out is a popular one that um is used in our classroom where kids are meeting with an adult every day um in the morning um and they're setting a goal for the day and then throughout the day they're getting feedback um incrementally from their teachers regarding how are they doing towards those core

040rules of being safe, responsible, and respectful. That's all data that all so gets translated into data that we can look and see patterns that like yep every day at 11 o'clock this is happening. Let's drill into that a little bit more. Um so that is a strategy that's used in our classrooms as well as again teaching those uh lagging skills um that kids have in our social um academic instruction groups. So I will turn it over to Stacy for what it looks like at the secondary level. >> Could you move the microphone just >> Thank you. So you did a nice job both of you kind of setting the stage. I won't repeat all of what you just heard. Our secondary schools follow exactly what you heard. Uh we appreciate all of the efforts at

041the elementary level. And as we receive students at the sixth grade level, it's nice to have that common language that you heard Shelley talk about. Um of course at the middle and and high school level, we need to mature. uh we need to evolve our language and how we work with students um to be more age appropriate for middle school students and high school students. But all of what you heard Shelley talk about secondary schools do too. And you know we operate I think with a few different premises. Uh for one, you can hear how how the extraordinary amounts of information that a teacher, a counselor, specialist has to absorb at all of the training and identifying the individual reasons behind why a middle school or high school student may still be struggling with behaviors.

042But one of the foundational beliefs I think we we operate from is that all behavior, adults and child, means something. It tells us something. Um, we operate, many of you might have heard of Maso's hierarchy of needs and making sure that a student's needs are being met, whether it's their physical needs, their social and emotional needs, andor their academic needs. We we our teachers are just exceptional at identifying when one or all of those academic fitness areas need some help. [clears throat] And teachers need support. uh it is a lot to to deal with the e the needs of the academics the teaching learning assessing uh part of the classroom and then also build those relationships that are going to be the essence of identifying what a student needs uh in a classroom that they

043might not be getting. So, uh, that team approach that you heard Shelley talk about with our coaches and a buddy system, having other teachers rely on each other to observing classrooms and monitor what we see uh, is a very helpful uh, method that we follow. Um, I think other things I could add to at the middle level, we have something we would refer to as the resilience concept. It's not necessarily a place or a specially designed classroom, but rather a person that will persons that will help monitor a student who is behaving outside the realm of the scholarly way in a classroom. Our students and teachers tell us per the data that they want to feel safe and they want to be able to teach if they're a teacher and students want to be able

044to learn. And there it's just reality, our humanness that occasionally we're going to have students that just cannot be in a 50-minute class period eight times a day. So, uh the resilience concept is in place much like the colors and the zones that you heard Shelley talk about so that if a student needs to do something different that day or that hour, uh that someone is available to go for a walk or maybe provide nourishment. Um some students need to move. Uh, some students need to be still. They might use an art or a craft or a music to be able to calm themselves. And as students age, that becomes pretty sophisticated in terms of what a a student is going to need to be able to get through the day. But we recognize that

045no student shows up at school uh aiming to get into trouble. And we one of the concepts we really try to um instill in students is they're to use their power wisely at school when they walk through the school doors recognizing that it's not the school of their principal. It's our school and they can use their power wisely to make that a safe and effective place for all students to be. It's rare that a student um doesn't want to be a part of that that ecosystem in a school. and we work hard at trying to make sure that all students feel a sense of belonging, that every day is a new start. Um Shelley mentioned it, you know, gone are the days that we would want to shame a student for a certain need that

046needs to be met or a behavior that showed up on Monday. Um, if we can help meet that need and uh help a student understand the behavior that he she they is exhibiting, be able to prevent that from happening the next day, we can hopefully preserve a sense of belongingness so that by the time a student gets into the high school level. We're helping them envision that blinking lights that dreams can come true here and and help them understand what schedule of classes might help them feel engaged and that he she they can create a a high school transcript and a diploma that will help them envision the future of their choice of their dreams. So I give teachers a a lot of credit. There is a lot to facilitating what happens in a classroom

047in the teaching and learning environment and then also being able to diagnose and support students. A aside from that um but we our teachers work really hard at understanding the individuality of students and listening to their needs. Um, many teachers are engaging in, I guess, what we would call pulse surveys to really understand how a student feel, what it feels like to be in our secondary classrooms. And teachers are adjusting uh things they do every day to to meet the needs of of our students. >> Questions for >> I have a question. >> Yes. So, it's it seems to me that that a teacher's job is probably harder than ever. Um, not only are they teachers, but they're psychologists. They they hold a lot of hats. And I totally understand where, you know, times are

048not the same because I would have done something like that once and it would only been once. and you know and then I would have went home and if I made it out of that house I I would have went to school the next day. But >> yeah, >> um there where do we hold some of this accountability >> to not only the student but the parents and do we meet with these parents and go through this because sooner or later there there are times where they're affecting not just the class but even the school or the teacher or the principal or even the faculty in general when they're just you know beyond I don't want to say beyond help because I believe everyone is able to get help but beyond um where we're able

049to help them just on our own. >> Right. >> I was going to say >> we work hard at trying to resolve those issues with our families. Families sometimes need support too. And yes, it's a good segue to where Kurt fits in. >> Yeah, I don't think it's going to fit here. remember the most devastating behavior for student for students is one of bullying. So do you see much of that in the district today or much as ever or >> Right. We we we we certainly do all of our schools I'm sure to one degree or another experience bullying and I I mentioned helping students recognize their power and use it wisely is is part of our work. Uh and often that is work that we do with the families, sometimes outside agencies. Um habits

050can be formed early that we attempt to to intervene and and help students feel their sense of purpose. I think uh the revised Maslo's hierarchy of needs says, you know, it's more than just uh eating, sleeping, and being clothed. We have to have purpose in our life. So sometimes that bullying is telling us something too and students need to know their purpose can be something other than bullying. >> I think I've seen a reduction in bullying over the years. If I go back to like my experience as a high school student in the 90s early 90s it was there's a [clears throat] lot less there's a lot of tolerance for bad behavior and in the 2000s I think we saw like this rise of bullying as like a thing and started to really actively start

051to do something about it. And since then, I have been nothing but impressed with our student body. Um, in terms of like interfering in bullying, stopping others, standing up for friends. That said, it still happens. You know, there's always been kids who get picked on and it shouldn't happen, but it does. >> Uh, and I think it's become less of the issue it once was in part because we've defined it better and done more about it. But I think also like the social emotional learning, some of those other things, we're just better at recognizing things and standing up for our friends. >> Um, I absolutely agree that bullying is less prevalent, but I think when it does occur, it's far more subtle uh than most people believe it to be. A lot of times it's

052turning and saying something and as soon as that student starts to walk away or, you know, receives that compliment, they turn and they giggle with their friends because they know they didn't mean it and they just they don't actually care about the student. Um, Yeah, social media. It's a busting curse. >> Yeah. I think it's uh really easy for it to go unnoticed because it's not what people are expecting it to look like. And so it's well they're not stealing lunch money or smacking things out of their hands, but it's more of the I'm gonna make it so that it's harder for you to like get and maintain friendships and things like that based on rumors at least at the high school level. I can't speak to the lower levels. >> I think to your

053point, Scott, what Kurt talks about the more severe things kind of what we do there. >> Yes. >> Okay. Definitely a meaty topic. Um, as I was listening to my colleagues uh share, about 95% of what we've talked about tonight is tucked right within our student code of rights and responsibilities. From our systems to our practices to our philosophy, all community advised things. um the values that our community puts into helping kids learn uh positive behavior early, opportunities to learn from mistakes, opportunities for second chances. Um but they're also clear uh early intervention, yes, not for everything and not forever that there are some serious things or things that uh maybe what you're referring to, Mr. new minister things that happen so frequently and over and over again and haven't been responsive to intervention and

054support that what do we do for those uh and so um really talking about probably one somewhere between one and 2% of our student body uh gets to a point where we're having some pretty complex conversations around um behavior um I think Ammy had shared uh somewhere 80 to 90 it's historically pretty close to 90% of our uh students will have uh between zero and one discipline referrals. We do expect kids to make mistakes. We were all kids. You probably remember a time when maybe something went off track. Um we can work with that. That's our 80 to 90%. We have somewhere in the five to 10% of kids will have, you know, some repeat things, two to five, uh but not not chronic. And then then we'll have a a small percentage that have

055pretty complex behaviors um and sometimes um pretty chronic. Um in our code uh it it's set up uh one of the areas um outlines um how do we respond to behaviors and behaviors show up in in different ways. They can be little things and they can be big things. Um no matter if it's a little thing or a big thing, we are trying to find therapeutic supports as well as accountability. Um, one of the things that we communicate in our, uh, code, uh, that's, I think, just critically important is high expectations for student behavior. Um, it's high expectations with the right level of support gives us the best chance to be able to shape, um, students who are functional in class, um, and become great citizens in our community. Uh and so um on the

056school discipline uh side and I'll talk maybe secondary first and then I'll talk a little bit about um elementary um at our uh mainly secondary uh level. Um all of our uh discipline is set up as like a graduated response. We want the the least amount of intervention that's going to have the biggest impact and be able to turn things as swiftly as possible. But it's progressive. So if there continues to be challenges, the we have graduated responses to address it. Um one of our district tools um for this is a disciplinary hearing. Um and it takes discipline out of the school. The school's still part of it. They come to the meeting um but really a facilitated uh meeting with parents uh that they have to be there uh with the student. And um

057little bit to it, but the basic framework is there's three parts to the meeting kind of what happened and we try to reach some consensus on the details on what's been occurring at school. We look at some data. We put up edge climber and and uh give everybody a chance to share. Last part is what are we going to do about it? The most important part and this is where I think a lot of like traditional school discipline frameworks fail is they don't ask this question. What is really going on here? And I think to your point, the importance of root cause and I will tell you in those meetings what gets uncovered to root cause uh is so critical to the direction of what we do to help support the child. Um if we

058had a and there are discipline systems out there that say, hey, if you do this type of behavior, this is what we do to you. If you do this, this is what we do to you. It's very prescribed. Um, in our disciplinary hearings, um, uh, we we get to the root of things and and what we frame with the whole team is if we the better that we can agree on what's at the root of the issue, the better chance we have. Doesn't guarantee it, but it gives us a better chance to come up with interventions and supports to address that behavior. Um the outcome of that uh ends up being a formal uh letter, but more importantly conditions, supports, and interventions that we put into place um that kids and sometimes families need to

059follow through with um in order to return to school. Um and so that could be anything from um we'll we'll have, you know, students who are struggling with substance abuse issues. We'll go and and uh we'll we'll even cover it with some LPF funds, but they'll complete an AODA evaluation. Um we'll have uh students connect with their school-based um providers um to for social emotional learning. We'll connect um youth to community counseling if if that's what's needed. Um put restrictions on where they can be. Um uh check-ins in the office, different types of interventions. But the idea of what we're trying to do is set that child up for success where they can come back to school uh and they have parameters around um their conduct um uh and conditions that they need to follow

060through on to get whatever help it is uh they need. Um we also uh facilitate uh pre-expulsion meetings. So we um we do try to avoid expulsion if we can. uh and that is an expulsion uh would be a you know something that the board's responsible for hearing and making decisions about. Um but we do use pre-expulsion uh which is again a formal meeting but it results in a signed agreement um with with um more details. A lot of times it results in alternative placements at least temporarily until kids get the help that they need. Uh but we'll encounter behaviors that in Wisconsin could be expelible. Um and maybe in a lot of school districts that's what the board would spend their time doing is sorting this out. A pre-expulsion is different in the sense

061that it's met the criteria for expulsion. Um if we can't reach an agreement and a path forward, we'd be in a position where we'd be u you know bringing that to the to the school board. So it's a much more serious meeting. We have very few of those. Single digits of those, a lot of times under five a year. Uh but these are for uh oftentimes very complex behaviors that have occurred that does warrant action and often warrants an out of school uh placement uh in an alternative program or you know some other uh uh type of um alternative arrangement with conditions to get the help so we can slowly reintegrate you uh reintegrate the student um back in. Um and oftentimes families want the help and we look at it one of the one

062of the values that we have in our code is families as partners in these meetings. It's you know we not doing fingerpointing or anything. A lot of reasons why kids end up there. Um uh you know our best best bet is to be able to partner with the family to help understand the needs of the child so we can get them get them the right help and get them back on track. So, I'll pause there and see if you have any questions about kind of that that part of things. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> I have a couple of questions that I guess are kind of related. Um, one is like how do we track disruptive behavior? I mean, is it just referrals or are there other things that we track like how many students

063use their regulation area are areas or if that's the result of disruption or if that's a planned excursion like we said for some students. those planned breaks. >> Yes. So, I guess start with that one and then I'll relate. >> Great. Great question. Um, so those um >> those sorts of self breaks or teacher directed breaks if a student's being like we notice something and we think the student could benefit from going to the regulation room uh wouldn't be entered into our discipline system. So, we wouldn't track that as like a disruption. It's proactive. Um we do track um infractions of our code in our system uh per incident and and students can have multip they you know you can do multiple wrong things at the same time. So we track all those too. [laughter]

064It's not a problem. You know we can do that. Um we do track action though and and it's one of the um one of the things that we analyze um every year as part of our uh discipline district discipline committee. um to what degree are our schools using some of these proactive strategies? So, you know, if if something happened that um you know caused a student to have a discipline referral, but uh we assigned restitution or they got assigned with a school counselor, a school psychologist or got connected with help or a behavior plan or system of care, our partnership with the county. Um, we track that too just to make sure that we have that nice balance of what the community is looking for interventions with accountability. >> And have we seen those numbers

065go up of incidents >> uh post pandemic? Yes. this uh uh this past year we're down we are down o over um month over month um at at all levels with the exception we are seeing a little bump at the high school with phones because we're trying to implement this new technology policy and that's getting some attention. >> Yeah. My my second question was actually like >> when we hear in linkages or from teachers that like behaviors are getting worse >> that it's unmanageable or whatever like what and I'm in and out of classrooms and they look like regular kids doing regular I mean but I'm present in the room which changes the equation sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. >> Um but like what is it that they're seeing? It feels more persistent

066than like, oh, we've got 20 more referrals than we had last year. You know, what is it that you think they're seeing that's causing the >> Shelley? What's been your experience at like early childhood in particular? >> Yeah, I mean, they have increased and so we especially see it in 4K and 5K coming in with a lot of lagging skills, right? They don't have the skills to be successful in the classroom. So, we teach our way out of it and support our way out of it the best um that we can. But I would say yes absolutely there's been a significant increase in in recent years. >> What does the trajectory typically look like for kids over time? >> Yeah, so 4K 5K high heavy uh first grade uh significantly reduced often. Second grade a

067lot of times kids that used to eat my lunch every day you know by second grade are like wow like you figured it out. But like that's multiple years of working with a kiddo. It's not a quick fix. And so that's sometimes the, you know, like people are looking for this quick fix that like, okay, I, you know, called in reinforcements and we're just gonna within a week or two like, no, these the some of the behaviors and the challenges have been ingrained and they've been there for years and but working with us for years too, you see a dramatic uh decrease. And then usually at the elementary level, we see like a fifth grade spike. >> Yeah. the hormones kick in. Uh, and that looks different. Uh, but yeah, I mean, significant at 4K,

0685K. >> I've also noticed a trend of moveins that have not been in our system that creates a level of disruption that we wouldn't typically see in a third or fourth grader. So, we think we figured it all out. The grade level's good. Then all of a sudden, a student moves in who hasn't experienced our system and has different expectations, and all of a sudden, it's back up. >> And that's spot on. the longer they're with us, the more successful they are. But I would say a lot of our bigger challenges this year have all been kids that moved in that we weren't expecting and they haven't been part of our system. And so our staff are doing a great job of figuring it out and figuring out what what they need. Uh and you

069know, they're gradually coming down. There's still some, you know, some that are still flying high, but um the majority of them, the longer they're with us, you know, we figure them out, they figure us out, we put in the proactive, you know, supports, we teach the lagging skills and they respond. >> Yeah. I wonder too sometimes related to like the lagging skills or even the anecdote that you shared earlier about the kid like struggling with reading and having behavioral problems as a result. Like I see a lot of compression of curriculum like books that we would have taught in 10th grade 10 years ago are being taught in eighth grade and books that we would have taught in eighth grade or being taught in sixth grade. There's a kind of acceleration to our expectations. I

070wonder and I feel like that's a problem with the pacing guides that we hear in linkages sometimes too that like they're trying to stay on pace but then they feel like maybe they're losing kids and there's not space for them to do that skill building part that needs to get done. I don't know is this something you're seeing or you've observed also? >> You know I can comment on that. I think try as we might to um >> encourage teachers to feel like that they can slow down to go fast. You know, I I think that's hard for teachers. There's a a great expectation to cover a lot of of standards, but we do attempt to to do just that. stop, slow down, allow this to be at a pace that all students can thrive

071in and then differentiate, right, for the students that can go deeper um and further and and then also make it very okay to to step back and relearn something. >> Do you think it's just a pressure they feel among themselves that like it doesn't really matter if you tell them they can change it, they don't? >> I would say the pacing guide though is real. It's a set of kind of expectations, right? because we do need to get through a certain aspect of our curriculum. We do need to have a certain standard of you know rigor. So the that pressure that they feel is you know not not misplaced. Sometimes though it's also we add some of these things in or we you know we like our new math program but oftentimes there's also some

072things that could go away but it's also things that I like to teach and it's enjoyable and kids seem to like and so there's that tension too between there's times where you know I either need to find the balance between the two of them like you know you can teach the standard it doesn't have to be lock step the way it is in a teachers guide you can teach it in another you know using different manipulatives, different ways, different structure, centers or however you you want. And so for a teacher, it's finding that balance too with with that. That's probably the challenge right now of our math curriculum. Our math curriculum is designed to also be able to teach it from a centerbased approach, but it takes more time and energy to plan a centers-based

073approach than to kind of follow the lock step. So that's part of what even Dr. Engel was referring to before of that implementation dip. Those first few years of a new curriculum um are really challenging before they kind of, you know, wrap their head around uh the curriculum and figure out, you know, here's how I could teach this to where kids understand. I'm collaborating with my my partner um and figuring out the most effective way to to do this. Um so we've had a couple of big uh heavy curriculums at the elementary level with um ACT 20 brought on OG, >> you know, and that's been a really big lift for our for our elementary teachers. Um >> and then um our math. So we've intentionally we we've had teachers say, "Hey, we're ready to

074bring on like a new writing curriculum." Um, we've let a few of them dip their toe into the water of piloting and trying a few things, but we've intentionally also left like not ushered those in just yet because we need to give them just more time. >> The waves of public scrutiny from NCB in 2002 through ESA and the latest things like it's added more and more public scrutiny of public education and we just did it today with R2.1 and R2.2. We looked at our test scores, right? And if we focus on those four subjects, it excludes all the things that would give kids a sense of community and social emotional learning. Uh, and sometimes it even pushes out social studies and science, right? You know, even though we test on those. And so I

075I do think there's more pressure to to get through stuff in a timely manner. And we want to maintain high expectations. That is crucial. And we want to give teachers a sense of ownership and freedom to respond to their classroom as they need to to move forward within those broad expectations. But, you know, if we're going to get to McBTH in 10th grade, you know, we need to have a some basis of of getting >> you never do. >> That's a 12th grade text. >> We do McBTH in 12th grade. >> And then Mr. understand. >> But you haven't mentioned anything as far as verbal and physical arguments, fights, physical whatever uh elementary is there more problem on lunch, playground behaviors, etc. Do we talk about virtues along the way? Honesty, being kind, helpful, and

076so on, friendships, um suspension still in >> Mhm. >> Okay. You threw a lot out there. [laughter] >> I know. I got a lot on my plate. >> Yeah. So, uh, well, try to go through, um, some of the things that you shared. So, um, the kind of the bullying, the the fighting, the more the aggressive types of behaviors. Um, at the secondary level, if that's mutual, if it's two kids who are squared off because they, you know, whatever, had an argument or they things got heated on the basketball court, um, we built system of care for those types of behaviors. Um, and and that is accountability through intervention and support. That's Bridget Todd Robbins uh, work. Um, we really didn't want to because that's been true forever. I mean, even growing up, you know,

077that that was, you know, that would happen. you know, kids would square off and settle things and we didn't want those sorts of kids to go through the criminal justice system. Um, when it's clear like there is a kind of a bully victim relationship that power is different, we handle that differently and and we do tackle and I totally agree with you Owen on the subtlety uh of bullying. Um, and we talk about that in our meetings. I'll have kids who come in for chronic bullying. Um and and basically the research is you have to address it head-on. Um you know as far as a discipline response it's a much more direct response with clear conditions around where they can be can't be who they can be around no contacts all that kind of stuff.

078So that I totally appreciate your your comments um on that. Um yet the uh as far as behavior trends as uh location unstructured uh less supervised areas um have a tendency to have disproportionate amounts of discipline issues. And basically if you have got active supervision in in a school meaning the staff know what the expectations are. We've got eyes on staff are moving about checking in with kids. You can reduce 90 to 95% of discipline issues in that area. However, not all of our settings can be supervised that way. There's, you know, the ratios get off and they become much more dynamic. Uh, buses can be tricky because the one supervisor is also watching the road, you know, so we end up having to do some tricky things with that in terms of seating or

079not being able to be on the bus and whatnot. But I think you asked some specific things about elementary. Um, >> you're have to refresh my memory now. >> Yeah. What was the specific my other in terms of virtues? >> Oh, conversation about honesty, being kind, helpful, friendship overall. >> Yeah, that's all part of our SEAL curriculum. And then um different schools do other activities too with all of those. Um I'm trying to think there fam like a lot of schools have families uh where there's groups of kids like uh a couple of first graders, second graders, third graders, fourth graders. They stay with that cohort all the way up. And monthly they do some uh rotation of working going into whomever is kind of like their teacher of record for the next five years

080and they they get together in those family groups and they'll do things on honesty and kindness. And then we've got special events too and is it like February or like kindness month? And >> there's there's key months too. I >> Orange went one day too. Yeah. >> Yeah. There's >> there's lots of different things where they're getting into the values, but it's also explicitly taught to in our SEAL curriculum. >> There was a home when I was substituting a number of days, there were home rooms going on like every Wednesday or whatever and they were trying to talk about some particular virtue and if there were 25 students in class, I didn't find one that paid heed to any of it. So, I would say has to be investigated with that. It almost like we're

081saying it but he's hearing it. >> The teacher. >> Yeah. Sure. >> So that's >> one. >> Yeah. Um actually I I witnessed this. I'm in these home rooms. [laughter] >> Um so it gets it gets really weird as you get older because a lot of the times you feel like you already know everything that they're teaching you. And part of that is arrogance. >> I was gonna say, but like some of the things you feel like are just common sense. Like you should be honest, you should be kind to each other. It's like, okay, >> you tend to tune those up. But if you do that, you then miss some of the really important things that they end up saying. Um at the same time, uh the problem comes to a lot of the

082times the teachers don't have a break to lesson plan or to do other things they need to do. And I have borne witness to a teacher going like I literally just don't have time. Like I I have a lab next hour that I have to get set up. Like it's on the phone policy. If you guys can tell me what the phone policy is, I'll let you guys do what you need to do today. because at the same time it's like home room is at least for central our only club time. So like well it's weird. Central's weird with clubs, but like sometimes you need to go meet with a teacher and that's really the only time that works or you don't have a study hall or you need more time to work on things

083and you'll take advantage of home room for that or that's the only class you have with your friends because you stay with them for all four years. Like it home room is a really weird period for that where it's you're trying to teach you some really important things but there are thousand1 factors that can play into it that make you not pay attention or not able to absorb the information. >> Thank you. Uh so I um my question was was a little bit uh coming from from Meredith's topic from before and I wanted to ask uh initially I had wanted to ask like what is a complex behavior because I I recognize you're using a term of art that may not you know be immediately yeah >> accessible to everybody but as as the discussion

084has gone on what I what I kind of wanted to ask was like again what Meredith was saying how help me square what we're hearing with 80 to 90% of of students like this is working for, right? And the the persistence of the comments um in particular the severity of some of the comments at the secondary level. You know, we heard >> we we hear a lot about the bathrooms and vaping and students who are afraid to go to certain bathrooms and things and those feel like >> really significant disciplinary issues. And when there is a sense that things are going unressed because of the way the system is set up, >> that that reads as a problem to me. And and I and I'm approaching this from a genuine place of inquiry. I'm not

085an expert in this stuff at all. So like I guess the way I would reframe my my actual question is like if you had to answer it at at kind of the philosophical level like our system is better because right because like Scott I came from a kind of nip it in the bud school right that >> the reaction would be oh you're disrupting the classroom persistently you're not in the classroom anymore. >> Tough noogies right? um when you learn how to operate as a functional human in that space, you can maybe come back to it, but we're we're the bell rings its butts in the seats. Like that's that's a big difference from where we are in the system now, right? And and so I mean you're you're I that anecdote again I think

086really resonates that like this is one of the reasons why that system is better and I mean can you help me out at that higher level to to square that circle around what we're hearing and what public expectations might be and and what's the narrative of what's working within our structure. >> I just provide two pieces of context. Uh first um I've read through about 20 years of linkage reports and the number one thing that's been mentioned and every single year has been behaviors. So it's a perennial issue. It's not it's not a new one. So that there's that context and [clears throat] I would say that in our experience it has been worse for a while uh than it has been historically and it's been getting better this year and last year too. There's

087a downward trend now. Uh and then the the second thing is we haven't expelled kids here for a very long time and we could and then we would just deal with them in the criminal justice system and you would see them on the streets and they would be vandalizing property and stealing things and getting into trouble. And uh we've chosen not to go down that path because we know that the kids that have the most challenges are less likely to leave our community and we're more likely to support them in a variety of ways. And every choice we make to take them out of the classroom is decreases the likelihood that they will be successful. Uh whether that is a single class period in kindergarten or a half a semester in 9th grade or an

088alternative setting at the high school. And so our our preference is to keep kids with their peers balancing that tension between the individual students needs and the whole classroom and the whole school's needs. Um, and then specifically, you know, we hired some behavioral some district behavioral specialists and I don't know, Ammy, you heard Shelley, Stacy talk about like the reasons why, like what were we seeing that was different in the last three, four years that necessitated that sort of a response and what gap there is out there that necessitates that. >> Sure, I can take take a little bit of a crack at it. So, uh, you know, as we're having this discussion, you know, my mind goes a little bit to the, you know, what makes a student resilient versus what makes a student

089come in and really struggle in ways we'd never want our own kids to struggle. And and one of our suspicions, uh, because we've got some data that we can point to, um, especially for kids who end up arrested in our system. Um, we cross reference it with some county data. Um, one thing that seems to be pretty common is early life adversity. Um, what what we know about uh children and kids develop uh development is um there are different types of stress and certain types of stress that we encounter help make us more resilient. It's by and large pretty predictable. It's managed. It's not chronic. It's supported by caring adults. Uh that that's kind kind of healthy. You need you need stress in life. You need novelty. You need to be challenged. to learn things.

090And then then there's a type of stress um that really is disruptive to healthy brain development um healthy emotional regulation that that really can't what once it's set it it can be treated over time but it's largely through relationship and it's through people doing things. There's no apps you can buy. You can't buy little programs. You can't build a hundred uh uh uh regulation rooms and fill them all. It's through relationship and and what we're seeing is the students who uh especially young students but it eventually manifests at the middle school and high school. Uh what is common is early life adversity unmitigated. Um they grew up uh in in environments where they were exposed to things and experiences and situations that that made uh you know being able to take on new tasks even

091a tougher math problem. it made that feel more threatening than a than a student who's like, you know what, I I've done hard things before. I can just jump to it. Um because the intervention is so relational based, a lot of the supports that we put in place over the last 5 years have been people. Uh they we've had behavior coaches who are working sometimes directly with kids and sometimes with teachers to improve systems. Um we've hired behavior specialists um who can work at the elementary level really targeting they solve a capacity issue. there just aren't extra lots of extra people around. And some of these youth uh kids who are coming in um have um such challenging behaviors that we need a person to help support them, help control the environment, help teach skills,

092help provide feedback, help provide reinforcement. Um and that's why we've been leveraging um you know the these sorts of behavior specialist positions. um the risk with young kids and I know we've had ongoing dialogue like do we need an alternative education for elementary students. It is such a critical developmental period. Um and we've done this in the past where you've we've moved kids with complex behaviors uh you know disruptive behavior and aggressive behaviors and things like that. That's what I'm talking about. Uh we we've had there's been programming for young kids with that but they don't have the worldview we have. everything looks now normal to them and and they might have come with one problem and they leave with 10 because of the exposure with other kids. And so we've really been working hard

093to integrate these supports in classrooms where kids get the benefit of being able to be around and experience typically developing peers. At the same time, they get therapeutic support right within that environment. And and it's not perfect. Um and there's risk to both. you know, the risk if you remove everyone uh is that these students really get unhealthy in ways that society won't be able to manage and it's going to be hard to get them healthy again. Um in an integrated setting, yes, we we we need to make sure we have support staff there to help help, you know, support that. So, I'd say, you know, to to what um you know, some of the uh staff who are sharing are talking about, some of them are experiencing some real challenges, no doubt, uh because

094we're seeing it. our behavior specialists are working onsite with those uh students nearly hand overhand to try and stabilize them. But it's that the the idea is in a relationship with a teacher in a classroom with mostly typically developing peers with the right supports and resources over time we can introduce the right types of stress and the right types of way um to to help kind of reset their stress response system and and get them on a path where they can be resilient as well. What is just like explicitly what is an early life adversity is like physical abuse, >> drug use? >> Yep. Abuse, neglect, exposure, uh maltreatment, uh injuries, um perpetuated by parents, um >> sometimes I know I don't have a microphone, but um sometimes it also looks at what we don't

095give kids at critical moments. So um kids that aren't given the attention at key times at key learning points in their early early life because parents are distracted by other things. So the child that's trying to engage trying to engage to the parent that is engaged with a device instead learns that either I go big or I get nothing or they learn that their needs aren't going to get met through their adult caretaker. So it's sometimes what happens to them. It's also some sometimes what doesn't happen to them at those key times. >> Shel, you do like radar meetings with your elementary principles, right? Like who's on your radar like in terms of kids, you know, that they're worried about. How [clears throat] has that changed over the years? >> Um, well, I would say

096this year it's far fewer than it was last year. So, but every month I meet with the principal and I like, who are the kids on your radar? Later on I meet with Ammy and a lot of the others in the team and we kind of talk through um so used to be that I could fill you know 15 names on at a school and now I'm like three or four. So I would sit there and say in general and this is in general there's a couple of schools right now that are you know got some hot spots. Uh but in general this year those numbers have gone down [clears throat] fairly significantly. doesn't mean that we're like there's no problems. >> And Stacy, this year the sixth grade, right, has been giving folks fits.

097And it seems like every year it's a sixth grade, the ninth grade. >> We say that every year. >> No, I think any teacher would probably tell us a a grade level can have a a chemistry or a reputation. Um but we too at the secondary level have radar meetings and we also I think both at the elementary and secondary level um have teams of teachers that will gather um to to talk gathered together and talk about a particular student and the big picture and the smaller picture to understand the needs and unmet needs that are going on um dating back to adverse child experiences. uh we don't always have the tools, the time or the answer. Um but we try for the very reasons that Dr. Engle brought up. uh the last thing we

098want is for someone to be lost in the system and that we weren't able to educate them because I think in addition to what Kurt shared with research, research also shows that what can help an individual human being overcome adverse human life experiences is education and understanding um the world around them becoming academically, social and physically fit. So if we can help a student reach that um the odds are they will be a healthy productive citizen a giving citizen in our community. So we try hard not to lose them. Now that doesn't solve uh the stress that an individual teacher goes through in the classroom but again um we operate as a team to provide that team effort for a teacher to not feel alone. Uh, and I think when Kurt talks about complexities and

099maybe what you're hearing out there, I I think um what I've witnessed change in my career is it's harsher. I think students have become wiser. Uh they're more resilient sometimes to in not in a positive way, but in a way of you can't consequence me enough. Uh they're wise to the world, right? Yeah. there's no punishment or consequence, you know, suited well enough, but uh that doesn't change the worth of that student and what that student can become. So, uh we try really hard in public education to figure out what it is a student and a family might need. Those outside partnerships have changed even in my career. Uh I I started out having many many many outside partnership relationships where I could have uh referred a student and a family to support. Uh I

100think those supports out there in the world around us have diminished uh which has made our jobs inside public school systems even harder. >> Um I'll go I think this is a great start to a conversation that probably need to because I'm looking at the clock too and we've got other business tonight. I don't want to short where we're going, but I also >> there's so many layers to this. Um I I've learned a lot and uh it's just continues to reinforce the difficulty of the jobs of the staff in these classrooms and and I think you know we hear tonight that they got to do better. We got to we got to have better scores and now we got to do better to read each kid. like it just tonight was a really strong

101meeting to tell the public about how hard teaching is and and how important it is. So, I just really want to reiterate that. Um I also was pleased to hear about your comment about know your power when it comes to bullying because truly there's two parts of bullying. There's the bully and then there's the victim. And there's tons of research on what happens to victims. And for you to be teaching know your power teaches those victims not to be victims and that is that takes away the the long-term negative effects of bullying. So it's really nice to to hear that piece of it. Um I'm not I worked in human services with a lot of these really really difficult cases and so I don't know that everybody around the table really understands the depth of

102what's going on in these family with these kids. You ask about the families. I mean, these are single moms who are struggling hopefully not with addiction sometimes with addictions. Um, and with children who are now physically getting bigger than them and uh really just losing control of these kids and and this they want they they'll take any help they can get, but they don't know they have no tools left in their toolbox. >> And so, um, I I I think it's just helpful for people understand. Um, I worked with Jim when he was at Hamilton and I remember when I went there and his kindergarten teacher told me about our kids are coming into kindergarten and they've been on their own so much and they've had to raise themselves because of all kinds of things

103going on in their home life and then they come into my kindergarten classroom and I tell them where to sit and when to sit and when they can get up and go to the bathroom and they're telling me forget it in very colorful language and that kind of stunned me. But that is real and it's not just in one school. It's in all the schools. The linkages we're hearing are I've heard the message from linkages. But what we're hearing different than what we've heard in the past is more urgency, more concerns about safety. And I think what's compelling to me about why this is a deeper issue and I think we need to dig into it a little bit more is when we did our community survey um for our uh visioning process this year,

104behavior showed up. >> And we are all hearing around this table that behaviors are affecting why students and staff choose to be in this district or not. and and uh when you hear staff talk about I mean we've always heard staff talk about behaviors but when staff talk about safety >> and I don't know if I always feel safe because of behaviors. This is a big big issue. This isn't a simple issue. This isn't just about what kind of discipline we can do. And by the way, I'm so proud of this district for not doing more expulsions. Until you've sat through a number of those and watched families fall apart, you have this board has no idea the amount of work that the staff keeps off of us because it's families just falling apart. And

105those pre-expulsion meetings, I'm sure you is what happened in the past was administration, we hear these families falling apart and then I'm sure administration's like, if we only knew that we could have resolved it. I think you're solving that ahead of time. And so I appreciate that and I just want to say thank you for that. But um I really want to talk about I mean I I think we need data. I think it's going up, it's going down. What what's going up? What's going down? We're hearing about it in the community like what is the data? And I I don't we didn't ask for that for this conversation, but I think for us to have a meaningful conversation going forward, we got to know what is it what does it look like for for

106data. Um, and I think from there we start to talk about not just discipline because that still has to be a piece of it, but the supports that go into it. These kids, the hell they are living through in some of their lives, like we around this table have no comprehension of it. And it's and it's not just a few families, it's more and more families. And um how how do you go to school when you you're scared that mom's going to get beat up or dad's going to go to jail or you don't know what weirdo is going to be staying overnight tonight at my house and I don't have enough food. I mean it's how how do you expect a student to learn even a really good student with good behaviors? And of

107course behaviors are communication behaviors are the student saying help me. And I think that's we have to really dig I mean this is in my opinion this is a really good start to this conversation but there's a really deep level where we really need to get in and talk about how do we help these students and what I have heard and again I we don't have data so it's hard for me to communicate is our district at a different level than other districts as far as these behaviors perhaps our socioeconomic tells us we're different than some of the surrounding communities so perhaps perhaps not but I until I data. It's hard for me to have that communication. My goal with all of this is to change our reputation as a school district because some of

108these behaviors are affecting our reputation. And I I don't I'm not being inflammatory. I think we all as board members have kind of discussed that one way or another. And so, how do we how do we address behaviors? How do we address this issue not just for the students, but maybe just in quantifying it for the community and have a more meaningful discussion. So, those big level things. I don't have any particular questions, but that's kind of what I'd like to see the next. We couldn't get to that conversation till we had tonight's conversation in my opinion. So, Jim, you had stuff to say. >> My concern is when or is there a connection and I kind of believe there is between discipline and attendance? The kid is struggling in school. So, his behavior is

109outlandish and then I start skipping school. How close is that dimension? >> So, I'll tell you from as a science teacher, the kid that I wanted to be absent never was. [laughter] >> That is an honest answer. >> I I think over time it definitely adds up. If you've had constantly alienating experiences through elementary and middle school, I think it shows up later on. I don't know if it shows up as much in the early ages, but >> I would sit there and I think you've got some research that you've shared with us too though at times that attendance often right is a precursor to there's also things going on in the home and that's not always being looked at. So at the elementary level typically when we have kids that are absent there they

110want to be at school but home is not set up in such a way that is getting them to school and then what it's like when they're at home. So that at the elementary level I would be yes looking at the correlation between you know attendance and what might be happening um at home. >> I I agree with that. Uh, I mean, I walked many houses when I was back at Hamilton to make sure that kid was at school, but when does that rubber hit the road in terms of attendance and discipline? I mean, what kind of correlation can we draw upon that? Uh, discipline, therefore, attendance goes down. Attendance goes down, therefore, do we have a correlation of some kind? >> You look at that disciplinary hearings, right, Kurt? Or >> Yeah. Well, yeah.

111Yeah, I mean any disciplinary hearings that we have, I show their attendance and you will see. So, I'll give you just a generic example, no names or anything, but um you know, we can look back years and and we'll have students that will come in where that you know, maybe they're there for a disciplinary hearing for some sort of possession issue. You you look backward and you see this slow fall from elementary school. Every year their their attendance drops. what we talk about is what is really going on here. What change what any life of you know and we we're kind of unpacking that um kind of uh Shel had shared symptom is or attendance or truency or absenteeisms. It's usually a symptom unless there's technical issues like I live too far away but not

112so far away that I can bust. We we can solve those technical barriers to attendance easy to solve. more challenging are these um kind of complex situations where uh you know with the worked with some students who during the pandemic their parents were occupied they had a lot of unsupervised time. It's when they got introduced into vaping and things like that. The more that they used the less they attended um you know less they attended the less successful they felt at school which made them feel worse. and then I, you know, finally might see him as a ninth grader or 10th grader with a, you know, AODA issue. Um, so that's really why we have to unpack that whole thing to understand where what was the root of this so we target the right thing.

113Um, but yeah, the attendance a lot of times is just the tip of the iceberg. It's just how we know that there's an issue because most kids come to school. >> Stacy, what are you seeing in that correlation between attendance and behavior? Well, it's an interesting question, but I I think there's probably a mix. I mean, students that aren't coming, we aren't going to see the behaviors. So, obviously, that would be a correlation. I I think it's it's so I I would have to study it to give you an honest answer because I think sometimes students that are acting out that's they're telling us something and there is a need to come to school and act out. So my hunch would be we will see many situations where attendance is high and behaviors are high.

114Um again because that that behavior is telling us something. Uh when you mix in drugs and alcohol or some other you know issue I'm sure there's variables that would change that dynamic. But kind of like what you were saying with humor, students come with behaviors, but they're coming. And that's one of the things that we celebrate then is well, they're here and we have an opportunity to partner with them and figure out what's going on. But teachers need our help because is it is not fair to a teacher to be the only one with eyes on that behavior trying to solve for that problem. So >> Scott's next and then I'm going to turn it over to Jeff and Tim if they have anything to add and then I think we've got another session we

115have to have. So I think we'll stay tuned for the next part of this discussion. >> I'll make it brief. I just I think one thing that's obviously happening that didn't happen years ago because we had family issues when I was a kid and you know the same situation. Um I think it's more prevalent now obviously but I we all had all these but one thing we didn't have and I think there was more help outside the school than there is now so that's why we have coaches for coaches for crying out loud you know and whether we like it or not we have to pay for all this right so it limits us in other areas but we have to pick up the ball where it's not there now so uh but I I

116believe cyber bullying's obviously a huge huge thing and I think that's something we obviously never dealt with. I didn't you know I mean I used a typewriter for crying out loud. So cyber bullying and and you know AI is a scary situation with being party bullying because they put you know faces on things that aren't them and so are these things you're obviously working on and keeping ahead because now right now AI scares the dickens out of me for bullying wise you know obviously you could take the good and bad with AI and other aspects but that area really opens up a lot of uh avenues and issues issues for our children more than anything I believe. >> Well, you bring up such good points because the ills of society, right? The ills of society,

117the temperament of society, it it has impacted our public schools. I think teachers would say, >> you know, 30 years ago, um they were deemed as the authority figures when families walked in at a conference. And I think society has adjusted that. I think teachers are are not respected enough for what they're seeing in in a classroom and not viewed as the authority figure any longer which also I think poses some of what you're hearing in linkages again they need our support this is these are tougher times >> sometimes a surprise to families so our scope is things that obviously happen in school on campus but we have some authority outside of school outside of school time outside of our supervision if it impacts schools. So, some of what you're talking about the AI and

118the generation and the cyber bullying. It could happen over the weekend and we're having to investigate that and make decisions about that threats kind of the same same thing still within our authority. We address it. Um sometimes we'll have families who will be like, "Well, that didn't happen at school." And that's just not how that works. So, we address it all. >> Thank you. I do agree with your uh assessment on I think what you're kind of talking about is um informal supports for families. I always share u my um mom's side of the family grew up above the boot factory on the north side and they talk a lot about the north side and you know they were not wealthy. There was a lot of poverty and challenges and things like that. But what

119they had was community. They had people looking out for each other. They had neighbors who knew each other. That's some of the work that we're trying to pull off in like the Shoe Mullen neighborhood and the Huber is to bring community back where there was just a neighborhood and and there's a lot to be said about informal supports, neighbors helping neighbors, looking out for other people's kids and whatnot. So, >> can I add to that? I saw a social media post the other day that was saying um the school is your village, right? that expression that it takes a village to raise a child and they're like the schools are your village. Those are people that are helping we're helping raise children. >> Y and it's a role that's not being played by as many

120other third spaces as maybe it had been in the past. >> Absolutely. >> Interesting. Jeff or Tim >> De said this is a pretty complex topic >> and not one that I would say I'm an expert on. I'm a a learning parent most days uh let alone an expert in this. But I think what I've heard from Lincolnes is is not only the the challenge that our teachers and staff and our building administrators have every day. uh I hear from my kids from some of their um experiences at school every day. Um, but I think the one that I think from the Hamilton linkage that I really that was was pretty telling to me is a lot of our our schools with our most atrisisk children are there's a fair amount of young teachers >>

121and the overwhelming feeling that they must have every day to not only understand what am I doing >> to deliver the material but how do I manage this and what do I the how do I help? Right. What am I doing here? >> Correct. >> You know, you wonder, you got to wonder. >> And I just look at the burnout rate and and the support and and I we heard a lot out of that linkage and and it really kind of taught me or made me think about like never done this, never done this job. What can we do? How can we support? How do we get kids earlier? And it just really kind of got my my mind going on that path. But I think to Deb's point is is this is a really

122big topic, but I think it's one thing that I think that hadn't been t touched on and I don't need your response but I think that that was definitely something that I saw >> from those last couple linkages is is how do we keep teachers not only our experienced ones but how do those young ones that don't have as much experience? How do we give them the right tools to be successful? I think that's a decent sized topic especially given the turnover rate we're seeing. Um, I'll first start off by I agree with uh, you know, parents and teachers have completely flip-flopped. I I was terrified of my parents going to teacher conferences when they got home. So, um, but with that being said, last year I I got to go to Spence for a

123full day, uh, after a linkage that, you know, the teachers had talked about, um, you know, the difficulties of teaching at that level and I saw it firsthand, but after you guys had spoke about, you know, a lot of the the teaching behaviors and the support that you do have in those schools, um, I give you kudos because I it It was a long day, but it was definitely a productive day in terms of seeing the support that is there for those teachers. I mean, they to be honest with you, they could have more and more support. >> Um, but you could only have so many teachers in a classroom. I think there was at one time there was like three TAs in in one class, but you knew it needed to happen because they

124had some behav behavioral issues which would have completely re railroaded the class at the time. So, I mean, I'm glad that you guys are taking a an active role in in trying to change behaviors, and it does start at that level. I mean, it it starts I mean, in our first class, I think there was two kids that didn't show up until halfway through the class. It's not just kids' faults, right? >> It's, you know, the parenting. Um, so it is, I mean, like you said, it is it is a a complete um, you know, from everybody involved. It takes it takes a village to to do this and um I think that you guys are are doing a good job at it. I mean, we can all sit here and we hear one person

125that yells at us about, you know, behavior issues in a school and blah blah blah, but if we're not doing anything about it, I could see that. But I I truly believe that we are. So, kudos to you guys and just continuing that support for the teachers because that's what we need. what you need to kind of think about chapter two of this conversation down the road. >> I could see a couple directions going. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Thanks. Good work. >> You all stay here. Okay. >> [music]