11/25/25 Special Board of Education Meeting

001Oh, hey. >> [music] >> Hey. Everybody would bring >> a I think so off the table. >> I will call the school board meeting to order and would you please rise for the >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. >> And I will ask the clerk. >> Christopher Engel >> here. >> David Bowman >> here. >> Hansen >> here. >> Hol. >> Mary Loki Blanik >> present. >> Keith Shaw >> here. >> Harry Tra here. Seven here and accounted for. First order of business tonight is the facility consolidation recommendation presentation. >> That's a thanks Mr. Hansen and good evening to everyone. Uh tonight our team brings forward

002recommendations uh that were not made lightly. Over the past several months, we've devoted countless hours to analyzing student enrollment data, reviewing facility needs, studying financial realities, and exploring every possible scenario. This work has been thorough, collaborative, and grounded in one question. What is the best path forward for the Manitawalk Public School District to not only sustain itself, but to truly become great? Great organizations don't become great by avoiding difficult decisions. They rise to challenges, face hard truths, and choose a direction that ensures long-term success. For the MPSD, the truth is clear. We cannot continue to operate business as usual in a district that has declined by nearly 1,200 students in the past couple of decades. Our structure simply no longer aligns with our enrollment, our finances, or our aspirations for student achievement. The recommendations that

003will be delivered to you tonight by the district administrative team do include do include school closings that reflect the reality of our circumstances and the responsibility we have to plan for a stable, strong, and sustainable future for our students. As we begin begin the presentation tonight, um I would just ask that the board um we we've sort of designed this presentation to try to get through it. So when you have questions, just jot them and then at the end there's plenty of time of course for any questions and comments and concerns you may have. The goal for us is to make sure that the board has all of the information necessary to make the decisions uh that need to be made. >> So Mr. Superintendent, are you saying that we >> we don't want to

004get interrupted? >> I can't ask questions after >> something like what you're doing right now. >> No offense, but by by observation, the board tends to maybe go a little off when we do. >> We got to stay on, folks. So, >> uh at the end, we'll have lots of opportunities for >> So, thank you for your honest. >> I am honest always. Okay. Uh so, having said that, I turn over to Stacy. >> Thanks so much. Uh so as we share our presentation with you tonight, we want to just start with our existing conditions and where we're at because it's always good to remind ourselves where we're at and where why we're moving forward in the direction that we're moving. So this slide is just a repeat of a slide that you've already seen

005from the facilities advisory committee that talks about our existing conditions. So we know that our buildings are aging. We know that we have declining enrollment. We know we have some operational and educational inefficiencies and that we have excess space. So this is our current reality of where we're at. to know where we need to do to move forward. Um the next slide has um information about our current structure of our schools on that. So you can see our elementary and our middle schools listed here. Couple of things I just want you to note in our current elementary middle school makeup. When you look at our elementary schools, the top six schools that are listed there, our range and population from those schools is the smallest at 202 students and our largest is 356 students. So

006about a 150 student difference in those two buildings. Um so we have a discrepancy in sizes of our buildings. The other piece is the free and reduced column that's there. If you look at that, one of the things that you'll notice too is that some discrepancies we have there as well. So we have a school that has 41% free and reduced lunch percentage and another one that has 73%. So we took these numbers into account when we were looking at how should we restructure our school district, where should students go, how do we want to create equity amongst our school districts. Uh the number on this slide indicates all students with disabilities. Um there is an updated chart that you may see that has excluded students that have speech and language only IEPs. We know

007that in elementary school that's often where a lot of students have speech and language needs. Um, so there if you do see a different chart with lower numbers, that's because those speech and language students have been excluded from that. Um, but just in terms of students with disabilities, we have those numbers for you as well. Um, same thing with Wilson and Washington at the bottom. You can see our two middle schools. Again, a difference in size from 478 to 566. Um, and then you look at that free and reduced lunch percentage as well. A big discrepancy there between those two buildings. So, we use this information moving forward when we want to create equitable learning experiences for all of our kids. The next slide I'm not going to read to you. Um, again, this is

008a a duplicate slide from our facility advisories committee that they presented, but again, this was really what our executive team was tasked with, right? This is what the team [clears throat] said we need for our district and what our district needs moving forward. So, in terms of student enrollment, equitable experiences, consolidation. So, these uh statements grounded our work for how we were going to make recommendations for um the board to look at tonight. And you'll see these statements referenced at the top of the other slides to show you where we worked on each of those things. Um as so as we move through this presentation, um we'd like to create some context for our recommendations. And the context is simply this. How did we arrive at our recommendations? And to sum it up in a

009real simple way, we use data. Um, we looked at current enrollment trends up to and including population densities of our district, our zones within our district, and our current school structured zones. We looked at building repair cost uh repair costs across the district which included monies that we have committed to our buildings based on the plan that we had for our capital borrowing of the $25 million. Um as well as started looking at other opportunities for investment with other dollars. We've looked at future residential expansion. Uh we've we've met with the city uh planning department to find out where things were happening in the city as far as residential expansion um so that we can make the most informed decision possible as far as um district lines and boundaries for students uh enrollment into the

010into our schools. Um and then lastly, transportation implications. Uh we know that it's very important to make sure uh that all of our kids have an opportunity uh that are eligible to receive transportation to the schools in the most convenient manner for our folks. I'm going to start us off by talking about our elementary recommendations. Um we are recommending that we create four K4 elementary buildings. Um the first part of that recommendation is that we would close and sell Madison Elementary. Um as you know this is our smallest elementary school and we are not able to increase our student enrollment um to equal that of the other schools. Um the cost of um making the needed repairs and updates at Madison is $2.5 million. Um the next part of our elementary recommendation is that we

011would close and decommission Jackson Elementary School. The cost estimate to make the needed repairs at Jackson is $4.1 million. Um we have a two-part um recommendation for Riverview. And the first part of that recommendation is that we would move the K4 students to the Stangle building. Um the Stangle building is um situated in a pretty densely populated area. It is adjacent to the Madison um boundary area. And um another part of that recommendation if you saw the map um is that the Madison students would then move and join um the Riverview students at the Stanford building. So that would really be two become two buildings in one. Um the second part of that recommendation is that the 4K students remain at the Riverview building. Um they're currently housed in half of that building. And then

012we are very excited about the possibility of um working with um a daycare center in Manageaw to have a partnership to have them run a daycare out of that second half of the building. Um we would like to then be able to offer all day 4K to all of our MPSD families, which is something that we've wanted to be able to do for a while. Um, the way that that would work would be our current 4K teachers would continue to run an AM and a PM section. So, they would do what they're doing now. So, it's not additional staff. And the second half of the day, the students would [clears throat] be going to the daycare. And so, that would be a collaboration that would we would have with them and that would be an

013investment that we would choose to make. Um, if families only want to do a half a day of 4K, they don't want a full day, that still would be something that we would offer. Um [clears throat] by having um four elementary schools that are at full capacity, we see some real advantages to that. Um by having three or four section schools, um we're able to have consistent class sizes, improved collaboration for staff, um improved PLC opportunities, sharing of students during intervention time is much easier when you've got multiple teachers to do that with. and there's less shifting of staff. So when you have a school like Madison that has one section at third grade and then two sections at fourth grade and that kind of thing that happens with teachers that have to shift to

014different grade levels throughout um the years. So and and at the end of the day it would really be about offering equitable opportunities for students at all four of the schools. So that is our elementary recommendation. Uh the next recommendation that came forward from the community and staff facilities committee was that to look at reconfiguring our grade level makeup at the middle school level. Um so our team was tasked with digging into what a 56 building and a 78 building could look like as we would consider reconfigurations. Um, most of us know that middle school is a unique and critical developmental period in a student's educational career. Um, so there's a lot that goes into looking at our neighboring partnering districts um, who have implemented non-traditional middle school programming. Um, there are a number of

015districts that have 58 programming. Um, we have been working closely with some districts that have 56 buildings, 78 buildings. Um and we'll continue to work through that process should the recommendation be to move forward with this. Um when we're considering the condition and structure of our middle school existing facilities, um as well as looking at what those different models are, um we've learned through some research that there's some real advantages to having a 56 intermediate building which would be housed at Wilson Middle School and a 78 middle school building that would be housed at Washington Middle School. um the five six model. So having preserving that pre-ed pre-adolescent age group of having fifth and sixth graders to together really serves as an opportunity to bridge elementary school and middle school. So fifth graders currently in

016our model are walked by their teacher in a straight line down the hallway to the lunchroom. They are walked to the art their art class. they are walked outside to recess and supervised. In our current model, we take our fifth graders at the end of fifth grade who are used to these very structured transitions in a building and we dump them in sixth grade and we say, "Here, navigate this really big building." Um, you now have six teachers, you now have a cafeteria, you now go outside for recess and there's teachers standing in the hallway and supervising that, but it's very different than elementary school. What this model allows for is very not only socially and developmentally age appropriate structured lessons, but it allows the opportunity for teachers to focus on executive functioning and independent

017skills. So, organizing time um managing sort of a planner and and hope and homework. It also allows for students to learn how to slowly transition. So, they wouldn't have as many transitions as a typical middle school uh student would. They would have house models. Um they would have a number of teachers, but they would learn how to transition and navigate that building more independently, which would then again be able to set them up for what a a more independent model of the 78 building looks like. Um, if you know, um, again, you may or may not know, um, but our bell schedule at this middle school buildings are current there are currently three bell schedules. Um, there's a sixth grade bell schedule, a seventh grade bell schedule, and an eighth grade bell schedule. And there

018are no bells. So, there are students that and teachers that are navigating, you know, transitions throughout the day um without the, you know, the auditory sign that it's time to transition class. um because of different state requirements, academic requirements, there's a there's nuances to those schedules. So having fifth and sixth graders in a building allow for because of the similar state academic requirements allows for us to be able to implement a consistent schedule um that our fifth and sixth grade teachers and students could follow. Um so then moving on to the middle school um or the 78 building, we have an opportunity again to focus our social and developmental social skills programming and developmental skills and strategies that are appropriate for them those early teen years um together that keep you know our early teens

019um developmentally in a in a spot where they can be together. It also allows us to focus more on high school readiness and preparation, foster more independent opportunities for students that transition into that building. Um, there are academic opportunities that come with aligning those two grade levels together. Um, we can have some more advanced coursework. We can have opportunities for students who are accelerated to be able to have coursework that is aligned to those accelerated needs. we still have opportunities to have an interventions for students who need that support. Um, and then I think the most exciting part of this planning is that we have an opportunity to increase elective and choice opportunities for our students in the seventh and eighth grade building. Um we because of the middle school model when we adjusted to

020that we had to eliminate based on the constraints of having three different bell schedules and different academic requirements at the middle school level we had to eliminate another of choice and elective options for students in the Manitwalk public school district um that we had when operating a junior high model. So this allows us at the 78 building to really enrich choice options for our students um in that building um which we you know have had conversations and planning and should this go forward we have um elective teams that are very excited about those opportunities which then just promote and support more more opportunities at the high school because we're now developing feeder programs to go into the high school electives um which is an exciting opportunity for students. Um, we also have considered and heard

021feedback about concerns around transportation. Um, we currently have a shuttle system that operates at our middle schools. Um, we would we're working closely with Grant to be able to expand those shuttle opportunities. So, essentially you could have a fifth grade student, a seventh grade student, and a ninth grade student. and parents could either could drop their all of their students off at Wilson Middle School. The fifth grade student would stay for school. The seventh grader would be able to hop on a shuttle bus with other seventh and eighth graders over to Washington Middle School. And the ninth grader would be able to hop on a shuttle bus over to Lincoln High School. So, we already have those shuttle opportunities in existence. Um, we would just expand those opportunities to make sure that we are eliminating

022any transportation barriers for uh families and for students. Um, one point that we also have heard, um, is that there's a concern about adding another transition again at that very critical middle school age. Um, research will indicate that the biggest challenge and the largest contributor to the middle school dip, which is a real thing, a middle school academic dip that happens for students in sixth grade. Um the largest contributing factor to that is the social transition piece. Um, we take again students that have 60 fifth grade friends in their elementary school and then we now put them in a building where there are 300 plus friends at that grade level. And then we ask them to transition again to the high school in 9th grade where we're now, you know, increasing the class size again

023with the number of students. And socially that is that's very challenging for students especially for our students that may have any sort of anxiety, mental health um issues. Uh students on the autism spectrum um and just regular kids as well. Um our our neurotypical children also struggle with that social piece. So by bringing all of our students in the MPSD together in fifth grade, we are in fact eliminating some of that. So those social challenges that come with navigating a physical building change, it's also very it's much easier for us to control transition opportunities and provide transition opportunities that make navigating a physical building change much easier than it is for us to control the social pieces that come with those transitions. So essentially, we are eliminating the social challenges that come with transitioning through

024middle and high school by bringing all of our students that will graduate together in fifth grade. Um, and again, we can provide opportunities for students to feel comfortable navigating a building, but the social the social piece, um, we feel strongly about that that supporting students, um, and again hopefully mitigating the effects of that middle school academic dip. That is a that is a very real factor. Um other parts of our recommendation that uh have been brought up but we want to make sure that we're clearly communicating about is our alternative learning programs. So the Stangle Learning Community right now is home to approximately 180 students um high school students that are on various alternative pathways to achieving earning their diploma. Um, when we reconfigured the last time, we took Stangle, which was a former elementary

025school, and we took all of our alted kids from the McKinley building and we put them in a former elementary school. Um, that did not feel great. Um, so we have an exciting opportunity to partner with UW Green Bay Manitwa campus um to have ample space for all of our alternative high school programs that are currently housed at the Stangle Learning Community. Um, the benefit to that is that it's in a facility um, and a building where we currently house our GEDO2 program. Um, we would have an opportunity to bring our 18 to 21 year old special ed programs to that building, which is where they were. Um, it is a very age appropriate setting for our students who are pursuing an alternative pathway to a diploma. It feels way better than placing them in

026a a recommissioned or decommissioned elementary school. Um, it's a learning environment that is conducive to um their needs and is is a really high quality learning facility um that we feel really good about the opportunity to partner with them. Um, the next thing that I I think I am most excited about and most passionate about um is the opportunity by consolidating our buildings and our programs. We have an incredible opportunity to move and shift our special education staff and programming so that we have more special education teachers available in a building which means we can have lower case load sizes which will attract and maintain staff. Um it also means that we can provide a continuum of services for students with disabilities in their home school. Um we currently have buildings right now that are

027home to some different types of special ed programming because we don't have the capacity to house things like um programs for students with emotional behavioral disabilities or significant intellectual disabilities in every building. So we have to remove them from their home school and their peers and put them in a different school. This allows us to have additional special education staff that will go with their students um from buildings as we merge learning communities and provide a continuum of services for all students in their home school. Um we feel really good about that opportunity. It also allows us to be able to again shift where special education staff are currently and increase programming and staffing at our middle school buildings again. So we have manageable case load sizes. we can improve and increase programming and services

028and supports for students which ultimately is an in increase and improvement in supports for staff who work with those students because our special educators and our general educators work so closely together to support all of our students. So, um there's a there's a great opportunity there for us to really meet the needs of students um variety of needs of students in their home schools. Um, another area that I want to talk about is having a balance balanced instructional supports. Um, and we're talking there about our EL students, our reading interventionists that we currently have um and instructional coaches like just to have more of a balanced opportunity with those with those staff. Um, additionally, knowing that we would have um some extra staff as part of this process, we would like to uh bring forward

029a recommendation in the future if if this moves forward to have um to create math interventionist positions. We've talked about that before, but um we definitely that is a need that we have at all of our elementary. We'd also like to um math um interventionists um functioning at the middle and high school levels at well as well. Um And then another area is just having a reduced class sizes. This does give give us an opportunity to um look at the st the numbers that we have now. And again we have because we have inconsistent number of teachers at [clears throat] grade levels at different schools you can end up with there was a year recently where we had had to make a tough choice at Madison as an example with um 28 kids in kindergarten.

030That's way too many. but you add a teacher and now you're down to 14 kids. And so that is that is something that we want to look at. We currently have at Jefferson and Franklin um both of those schools are AGR schools. Um and you've heard about that. We we do want to bring reports um to curriculum committee about that. We get some additional funding from the federal government for that program to have smaller class sizes. Um, and that is about $450,000 that we get for both of those schools. So, that's something that we thought about. That's a program that goes away if those schools aren't there, but you and we can't add schools to that. But what's nice about about being a teacher at those schools is you could have you have classes of

031less than 18 where at at another school in our district, you could have 25 kindergarteners in your room. So, as part of this process with the additional staff that we will have, we would really like to look at having that 18 18 students as a cap for kindergarten moving forward at all of our schools, not just at our two AGR schools. We think that's something that's important and something that this allows us to be able to do. So, class sizes is something that we know isn't isn't a big big factor. um it's the teacher that's the factor. But at the end of the day, it's much much easier um and pleasanter, that's not a word, much more pleasant um to have 18 little people sitting at your carpet than 25. So um that's just something

032that we we hope um we'll be able to do. So this slide is going to show you just the things that Heidi and Katie talked about in kind of a comprehensive way. So again, that creating equitable educational experiences was the goal, right? The committee set the boundaries for us, what they wanted, and then we did the work to try to to make that happen. Um, you'll notice that bringing we talked about bringing fifth and sixth grade and seventh and eighth grade students together across the district. Again, that social transition um that's eliminated by doing that. Consistent sections at the elementary school to enhance collaboration, what Heidi talked about as well. Um, some of our smaller schools um may have sections of one or two. It's really hard for a third grade teacher when you only

033have nobody with you to help collaborate. Now you're going to have three or four other people with you on your team to collaborate. Um the other thing that was a big priority for us when we were looking at which schools to recommend closing where kids should go to school, making those difficult decisions, our number one priority was what's going to cause the least disruption to kids and families. So how can we reduce the disruption? We didn't want to just put everybody in a bag, shake it up, and say, "Here's where you're all going and all a whole bunch of different people have different schools to go to." So, in this model that we're bringing forward, we have 36 zones in our district. Only four zones of students will be affected who are currently in a

034school that will be open next year that will have to go to a different school. So, out of our 36 zones, four zones of the school that is open will those students will have to go to a different home school. It's about 106 students. So again, when we talk about disrupting um families, disrupting neighborhoods, things like that, we tried to do this with the least amount of disruption as possible. And we it was like a jigsaw puzzle. We worked all sorts of angles. Um and we were pretty proud to come up with that low of a number that that was the best we could do. I also want to notice when I talked to you about that first slide with the chart and we looked at some of the discrepancies in sizes, we talked about

035a 202 size of Madison compared to a 300, you know, 50 size of a different school. When you look at these elementary school numbers, you can see that the difference in size is 50 kids. So, the schools are all pretty equally sized. >> We are very proud of that fact. We're also very proud of the fact if you look at the free and reduced lunch percentage, you can see that that's much more equitable across all of our buildings in terms of resources, in terms of diversity, in terms of making our schools look like the communities that they serve. um students with disabilities like I shared with you the numbers don't drastically drop with grade realignment but there is an updated chart um so these numbers show students um with disabilities excluding the speech and language

036students so again one of the things we wanted to make sure that was balanced was when Katie talked about that special education programming being equitable at all the buildings that we didn't have one building that had 25% special education students and one that had 7%. So looking at that equity as well in terms of programming um you'll notice Wilson and Washington um on there and you may look at the size difference from Wilson in Washington and think oh that's 70 kids that's kind of a little bit bigger of a number. The thing to remember is that's the biggest group that will go through Washington because that eighth grade bubble is our biggest bubble. So that number at Washington in the following years will only continue to decline. >> So the number may >> 684 to

037603. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yep. So there'll be a difference. Um I think the other thing to note too when we talk about equity across our buildings and opportunities, you remember the Washington Wilson difference and free and reduced lunch was pretty drastic. If you look at it now, it's pretty exactly similar again. So it's bringing together our district to show it as a whole. with that configuration. Um it also makes all of our schools title eligible which is a which is an important factor to consider in terms of potential resources that we can get uh to supplement our kids uh especially in reading y >> which we know we need. One of the recommendation statements that the committee felt very strongly about was to say to the district, we really think you should also

038employ some strategies uh that will help slow your decline and look at stabilizing and potentially even growing your student enrollment. So, of course, there's lots of different strategies, but we wanted to focus on just a few that really pertain to this particular topic in consolidation. The first bullet really talks about an opportunity to get our kids involved in our school system at the earliest age. When we think about some real data, last year, 33 families chose to do 4K outside [snorts] of our district in other public school programs. This year, five families out of the 33 return. We have to do better in 4K. Which is why a huge piece of this is to utilize that space to the best of our ability to not only be very efficient with our staffing and how we

039run that program, but also look to make partnerships and potentially get students, who knows, potentially even as early as two years old someday into our school so that they then can hopefully walk across the way to a 4K program that our district is operating. And we know based on our experience that when our when folks do choose us for 4K, they stay because we have an excellent program. In in terms of uh co-curricular opportunities, we're also excited about the opportunity that our 56 78 building provides to get our kids involved and feel more a part of their class and a part of their school community. research is crystal clear that if kids have co-curricular opportunities outside of just their learning that they're it impacts their achievement in a positive manner which is of course one

040of the primary goals of our strategic vision. And then lastly um and Katie highlighted this when she talked about the 5678 and some of the advantages we see to moving in that direction. It really does provide us with an opportunity to have our kids taking um more electives that feed in vertically in a planned way to our high school programming, which as a comprehensive division one high school, we have some great content experts in these areas and fields that can help drive kids to experience new experiences and potentially unlock new passions and uh for their future. future. We also want to consider the physical and capital improvements. And what I hope what I hope you're getting from this presentation from our team is that this whole thing really isn't just about money. It's about learning

041and putting our district at a precipice of being great and doing great things for kids and improving their student achievement. And there are money pieces to this, but if you if you took a time clock of this presentation and you put it into percentages on what we talked about just now, I'm proud to say we talked mostly about teaching and learning and what's best for kids, which is why we're here. But there is money involved and this slide potentially says it best. as we're considering doing the hard thing of consolidating. Um, one of the primary benefit bits of doing that would be that we would be able to invest $6.6 million of the $25 million capital referendum into school buildings that we need to use. Folks, that's 26% of our entire referendum that was just

042passed by our community. And what a great showing this would be to our community of how our district utilizes dollars to maximize the improvements that need to be made for our kids to have the best learning environment possible. So this slide really does show that in a very stark way. Moving to a four elementary school model servicing grades K through four, we project the following efficiencies. 12 fewer teaching positions, 32 fewer support staff positions. This number, the 32, is inclusive of clerical and custodial staff, instructional aids, and special education pair professionals. We are mindful of our duty to meet the maintenance of effort standards set set by the individuals with disabilities education act. We will analyze our staffing of special education for 2627 and make reinvestments if necessary to meet those standards based on 2526

043budget allocations of nonstaffing accounts. So things other than benefits and salaries, the district will save approximately $290,000 annually by running two fewer schools. Cuts to administrative staff are currently to be determined. In the next 12 months, the district will put this building, the central office, up for sale. And finally, to to reiterate what Lee just talked about in terms of the referendum, [snorts] uh $6.61 million in referendum funds that are meant for Jackson and Madison projects that were needed in the next few years can be reallocated to other buildings and that is 26% of referendum funds. And just to talk for one second about the recommendation to sell this building. We've talked a lot about a lot of excess space in this district and we feel very strongly that we need to also find ways

044to be more efficient as a central office and um you know we can work out those you know as part of the recommendation. um we have policies in place to sell buildings and property and we work uh through that process with the finance and facilities. Lastly, we want to just focus on no by no means do we think we're done if we do this. The work is really just beginning. It was very clear from the work of the facility advisory committees that the number one priority of both committees independently was to have state-of-the-art facilities and quality learning environments for our kids. We believe that this step is the first step in doing that. We would suspend the committee's work for six months to do the necessary work that needs to be done to successfully complete

045the consolidation effort and then we would be reinstating that group to do some very hard work and that hard work will be focused on our secondary school buildings. Our secondary school buildings um are 102, 95 and 90 respectively. uh they I don't need to remind you of the CISA 10 report, the huge dollar amounts that need to be spent to get [clears throat] them up to par. We need to have conversations about the future of those schools and potentially other ways to educate our kids perhaps in even new schools. But those those decisions have to come from beginning in with the community. So what we would do um we we really felt strongly that we had to have a staff group and a community group to do the work that we just did here. Um

046in talking with Mr. hacker. Um we think it's totally appropriate at this time to merge those groups together to have the conversation about our secondary schools with the goal that that group bring options to the board and to the public in which we would like to to conduct uh when their work is completed. a communitywide survey that really will ask our community what their appetite is for the types of solutions that that committee comes up with. Um so we're excited about that work. Um we would get it started somewhere around July hopefully. Um but we really we really do think that um the timeline for that work is probably a lot less than what the timeline was for this work. this work uh really required us to do a lot of educating alongside of things

047with enrollment trends in our buildings and all of those things that that education piece has been done. Uh folks know where we stand. It's really going to be about looking into um what does this community want as far as secondary school structures. So, in closing, what I would just say is that um I want to reiterate that every recommendation that was brought forward tonight from our team comes from a place of deep responsibility and careful thought. We recognize that no matter which schools were proposed for closure, there would be disagreement and emotion. That's completely understandable. But what we're really looking at here is what's best for our kids. And our students are depending on us to make decisions that ensure strong, highquality schools for years to come. Our decisions are a part of leadership. We've

048assumed that. We know that you have to assume that now. But our team stands behind these plans and we believe it's the best way forward for our district and are doing our part to create a thriving manto which we all desperately want. I would also like to mention that we had hard conversations with staff and in those conversations that we had yesterday my team and I um there were several takeaways. One is we need to take care of people. This is hard. This is really hard for some. We're talking about people who've spent their entire career in a school. We're talking about neighborhood schools. We're talking about a lot of things that this would change. But one thing that came out at both Madison and Jackson's staff meeting was feedback from staff, which is imploring

049this board to do this work efficiently because the longer the cloud hangs over our community and our school district, the harder it is. So, I close with that and open it up for any questions the board may have. >> Okay, time out. Let's do it this way [laughter] because I know you were all dynamic people. All seven of you. Um, give me a number from one to seven. Seven. Seven. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. David, you have the first question. Now, here's what we're going to do. David's question will be asked and then if anybody has anything related to what he said or an answer from any of the people that do questioning, then we'll jump on it at that time. And the second question will go to >> Miss An may I

050ask one clarifying thing of you, Mr. President? >> Yes. >> Does that mean we are to stay away from discussion and opinions until all the questions the board has are asked? >> Right now it's just questions. >> Okay. Thank you. Make sure >> I have no questions at this time because I've I've seen the presentation. I hear what they're saying and it makes sense to me at this point. But as we talk further, I may have stuff that comes into the >> Ann, you're up. >> I do have one question. Um Heidi, you had mentioned about reduced class sizes. I guess my understanding is it is it going to be more balanced class sizes because you mentioned that the example of the 18, you know, splitting into this 214 because we are uh declining enrollment.

051We want to keep that focus on our students and staff to keep this. So I guess I wanted a clarification. Is it more balanced or are we trying to reduce class size? >> I think it's going to be reduced when it's balanced, but we are also talking about our kindergarten specifically a grade level that we get concerned about because we have had 24s, 25s, and 26s um in the recent past. Um in fact this year we have some higher numbers like that. So we want to moving forward be committed to keeping that number closer to 18. So that was specific example >> of kindergarten. But I do believe that that's going to happen naturally when we have multiple sections. >> Anything related to that? >> Mary you're up. >> Uh question for Heidi on Katie

052slides. You talked about transportation for secondary. Can you speak a little bit about what you've investigated for uh transportation for elementary? >> Um I see. Yeah. Yeah. So um first things first, we met with Brandt a couple times through this process. Number one most important question is can we do this? And the answer is yes. Um the transportation for elementary schools will will run similar routes to what they run now but designed based on the map. And what happens now is there are drop off and pickup points throughout that route that we have kids go to and get picked up and dropped off. it it will essentially run the same um in a proposal that the uh that the uh policy and personnel committee will get here in December about our school calendar also highlights

053some school start time information that we will be proposing which does impact our transportation um only in that the schools will start at closer times than what they do now. Um, as a district, we've sort of allowed ourselves to be at the mercy of what the bus company sort of wanted the start times to be. And we really said, "Hey, as long as we're doing this, let's look at some research and let's see what the research says the best start times are for kids." And so, the only difference in what's occurring right now and what would occur if that proposal goes through is that right now they run what we call double routes. So they would run a route, drop, and run a route and drop. Uh what we're asking them to do would require

054single routes for each of these schools. But remember, we're going from six schools that require runs to four uh in terms of the elementary. And with the shuttle system at the middle level, uh that also proves to be highly efficient in terms of dollars. >> So elementary kids aren't going to be stuck in a shuttle. >> Correct. That'll be right from their drop off pickup from their school. >> Yeah. And one other thing I should mention is as as you're well aware of, we have the two-mile radius sort of policy for busing. Um but if you looked at the map closely, what you'd see is the u essentially the assumed Jackson students that would be attending in Franklin would have to cross the river. So there's a process within the state that you can designate

055certain areas as hazardous zones. We don't want to make it sound like it's dangerous. It's not. It just means that it's highly unlikely kids are going to walk around the or you know where there's bridges and whatnot. So, we would we would follow up and through with the state. We need some collaboration with the county sheriff's department actually in order to get a letter of support to do that. Uh but that would open up those transportation uh for kids even within that uh for that those areas. So, in other words, the radius doesn't matter if it's a hazard itself. So, they may be under two miles and then be able to get up. >> Correct. Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> And then I have more questions, but I think I think I

056have to wait. [laughter] >> Yes. You have to wait. No stacking. >> Oh, do you care? Okay. >> You have to wait. You can only ask one question. >> Otherwise, Mr. Shaw, you [laughter] >> have to wait till the rain stick comes. >> Go ahead, Carrie. >> Yeah. I' I' I'd like to say that I'm I'm I'm very impressed with the work that's been done on this and the thought that's gone in and the sort of the nice symmetrical results that come out of it. Um, I must I must start by saying I I lament the loss of Madison, which is the school with the largest number of free and reduced lunch kids and the school with the highest number of students with disability and the only school we have that exceeds expectations. >> So,

057that's a loss. And I was hoping that we could maybe move to be more like Madison. I mean it it it has the most modest building as well. Uh even though it's got a nice view. Uh it doesn't have a cafeteria. It doesn't have a number of facilities. So I was I was hoping that we could move to uh try to emulate some of the things that work there. But what but instead we're getting all larger schools all over 300. I mean the the smallest is going to be 302. Um, but I guess I'm somewhat I'm not sure reassured would be the I'm I'm uh would be the right the right exact right word. But I am I'm kind of glad that we're going to have smaller class sizes across the board if if that's

058if that's possible. But my question is under this plan we have only one elementary school on the north side and that it seems to me that the the split here is uh I guess I'll just I'll just say what about what about if we kept Jackson open along with along with um the school that now is not an elementary school but soon will be the Stangler school and then had um Franklin and Jefferson be the Southside schools. I mean, I know that would rerigg the whole the whole the whole presentation, but uh I and I know that the main the main argument on Jackson is that it's going to cost $4 million to fix it up, but the fact is is that seems to me we'd cut down on busing. seems to me that we

059would be closer to a uh being consistent with the with the a neighborhood school concept which a lot of people are already expressing some sense of some sense of grievance about or at least some sense of of of grief about I think in in some ways. Um, so my question is is is could you run the numbers on that and give us give us some idea? >> You did. >> We did. >> Okay. >> Uh, we had numbers on every scenario that we were looking at. The problem with that one, Carrie, is is if you look at your map and I'll reference the map since we have it. If you kept Jefferson and Franklin on the south side and Jackson and Stangle on the north side, where would you suggest those pink that pink group

060go to school? >> I'm going to guess Valders if we did that >> because it's not we wouldn't we [clears throat] we're not going to push neighborhood kids away from Jefferson or or >> I see. Yeah, Monroe is going from 132 to >> 30 and something. Remember those are ideal numbers for elementary schools. And I think it's also important to point out on the north side southside issue is >> we have to put schools where our population is. That's the very essence of neighborhood schools. And when you it's no different than a congressional map when you're looking at this in that the reason that gold section and pink section are so big, it's because they don't have that many kids living in them anymore. All of our kids are living in the green and in

061the purple. You know, it those are our biggest areas of population >> up to and including that little spot above the the north part of the green. So, we run all those and and we can run the numbers, but the really issue there is um where with that scenario you posed, where would the pink students go to school? And we can't figure that out. So if somebody could >> okay >> let us know and we could run it but >> I don't know how that would work. when I know semi termin similar >> if it's on if it's a question about what he asked >> where's the population growth where >> you can go ahead with a question if it's it's related yeah >> our population density at this current moment is is in the

062center of our center south of our town if you were to look at it overlay on a Google map which we do have with the density you're looking at where [clears throat] those smaller boxes are. >> I think you said did you say growth like >> Oh, where are we going? Where are we going? >> You said you talked. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, >> so the major in progress housing development is over would be over on that uh northeast side where that old mall was and there are going to be homes built there. Um there's also been conversations about some potential um residential expansions on the southeast corner of the city potentially. Um it's uh it's not something that's in the works or have been like no one's bought land or did

063anything as far as I know, but that that is something that I know of is is something that's being talked about. Um, as far as that in city, a lot of the other stuff that we've seen is happening outside of the city limits as far as uh, you know, construction on the subdivisions and that sort of thing. But our school age children aren't living in those houses. If you look at our numbers of free and reduced lunch, you are seeing our population density as a district coincide with where the u cheapest are. That's just the fact of where we're at right now. And so we need to make sure that those areas are basically covered and and that's what this plan does is it puts the schools where the kids are, but it also has

064balance and room to grow. Because if you remember, one other thing as part of this plan is we're using the Riverview building. If there are population shifts, we could easily pivot back to that building if we needed to use it on the north side of town. Right now, we don't we don't need it. >> Other questions on carries, >> I guess, but it's a kind of a map question. >> Yeah. >> Why Why was Wilson chosen as 56 and Washington 78? Is that a balancing of numbers again? >> That's not a bad question. you want to answer that >> capacity is a little smaller than Washington's. So given the size that we current the number of students that projected to recruit for next year, Wilson's capacity is a bit smaller. >> Thank you. >> Okay,

065my question is on staffing, but we'll do that later. Chris, you're up. >> Okay, I I have four. Number one, I know I'm telling how many we go around. Relax. Take a deep breath. Take a breath [laughter] six times. You're going to be okay. And I'll sit through the last two. Okay. So, on slide six, we talk about closing and selling one building and we talk about decommissioning another. So, what's the difference? Yeah, >> I just want to understand what the two >> So, so the the the term close and sell means that we would sell we would move right away as quickly as possible to work with in this case the city of course because we jointly own that property with the city. Um, in terms of Jackson, um, there's a lot of wheels

066in motion with selling property up to it, including the fact that we want to put this place on the market. So, one thought was with Jackson is that for one calendar year, we would idle the building. And if the board wants to sell it or do something differently with it in that time, fine. We were just saying there's going to be a lot of things in motion here. And holding on to that building for a year isn't really a detriment to anyone, okay, in our Okay. Thank you. But if the board wanted to move quicker on doing something with that, we certainly can. >> Yeah. >> So, based on Chris's question, is is the Jackson building part of where offices would go if we sold this building? >> That's a good question. So, um, if

067this building were to sell, the only thing that our team talked about is we would really just want two things. One, wherever we go, we all go together because one of the faults of the original plan of selling this building is that it would have moved our team all over the place, which if anybody knows anything about efficiency or teamwork, that's really not all that good of an idea. So, we need to be in one spot. It is a possibility. Although there will be excess room at the Riverview building. Um, you know, even though we're going to have some daycare usage uh on the current K5 side, there will still be a number of rooms, plenty for what we would need uh there as well. So, that's another possibility. There also may be some other

068possibilities um within the district that we could look at. Um, and we would definitely want to put the plan and a proposal together. >> If if the if if the board acts to sell, we would have a a complete plan in place before we ask committee to go through that process that we would ask the facilities and finance committee. >> This is related to so I'm not losing my turn. This is related question. >> Seeing as seeing as how special education and alternative education seems to have reached a phenomenal group or decision with WGB, is it possible that this building in your offices in that same rental package could just move out there? >> Yeah. Uh if they have the space, that that would be the that would be the thing. And the other thing

069is is um you know, we were quite impressed with the uh initial conversations we had with them. not only um what we think it'll be for our kids, but also it was a good it was a good price point for us. So, it it could be um I would say anything we own as an option. And then also Oh, and by the way, the other one was that we want more windows than there is. [laughter] >> There are lots of spaces now. >> There's almost nothing. >> So, yeah. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Does um decommissioning for one year impact our moody rating? Maybe it's >> I don't even see that as as impacting our movie. >> Okay. >> Versus selling it. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, but nobody like it's it's there, the

070heat's on, you know, to can to keep it going. I mean, I wouldn't be concerned about our Moody's rating. Um, I wouldn't be concerned about our insurance any more than what I'm currently concerned about. >> Jump on that question though. >> Recall the experience we just had with property insurance. >> This is going to this also will help us tremendously. Remember, we saw a huge jump from about 200,000 to 800 and some thousand to property insure our buildings. um decommissioning these two buildings will drop that price tag and then they also want us to update them when we do capital improvements that will also help drive those costs down and savings as well. >> Thank you. >> Anything else? Keith question. >> This this is for Heidi. Um, one of the things and one of

071the advantages for being the old member of on the board was 11 years ago when when we moved when during the Holoman administration when we moved Riverview, which was all kindergarten back to the elementaryaries, there was great great great concern about the the lack of collaborative education because at Riverview everybody was kindergarten and everybody collaborated and educational opportunities of shifting of things. Talk to me a little bit about that that collaborative effort that you mentioned at the elementary system with adding more than one section and and if this is to come to fruition, is is there a chance that those people that worked at Riverview and and made that transition to our other buildings could form some kind of group to to help these people with with the transition of going to a new building?

072you know, >> so the people that have been through it could um help with advice and things for the people that are going to be going through it. >> Sure. Sure. >> Yes. We talked actually about that. We talked about um giving those people a voice to help us with, you know, what didn't go well last time so that we can not make those same mistakes again. >> Awesome. >> Um and so then and the additional question is the collaborative effort. So, so now you're talking that we're going to have a building in there be three third grades rather than one or three fourth grades matter than rather than one. So, these people are going to have the same thing as Riverview had back [snorts] 11 years ago before they were moved out. Correct. >>

073Yep. Chances to collaborate, have have more people to even share kids during intervention and those kinds of things. um we would have most I think of the four schools um there would be three or four teachers at every grade level based on the based on the numbers that we've run already. So yes much much greater chance for collaboration. >> Okay, thank you. >> What are the implications for um I hate the phrase noncore classes at the elementary level. Um so I know we've had issues before with Madison. a teacher would be teaching there on a Tuesday morning and not there again until a Thursday afternoon. >> This just eliminates that which is fantastic. Like right now we do have traveling staff. It's an issue every year. It's a challenge every year. Um it's been really

074hard for Madison because like this year they have um three different people providing our music and fiad. So every day there's a different person there. Um they're not really part of the staff. They come and they go um >> and the [clears throat] student population would be strong enough to support. you would have full section every building that's consistent. Y >> so that kind of relates to what Chief was asking. One of my questions on that staffing is with closing these two schools. Um, is there a way to take advantage of the whatever was working at Madison >> working somewhere else and within those I know within Jackson had kids go through there. There are some areas that are really strong. Teachers work very well together. And is how do we keep those groups of

075educators that have done something well together when we move them to another is there a way to somehow and I'm sure Riverview has the same thing where there's team teaching or teachers in in the same grade level doing a good job. Is there a way to keep them somehow together so they can continue that sharing? >> We have um a staff survey we'll be um HR will be sending out. Um and we talked about adding um to that survey teachers being able to they get to say what grade they want. They get to say what subjects they want. They get to say what building they want. Um and now we've added a a we're going to add a component to that survey where they can request to be with a teacher like a teaching partner

076that they currently have. So, we're we're going to do our very best to honor all of those things. Can't honor all of them. We know that, but we're going to do our very best to keep people together that want to be together. I just like the idea of what you just said of of asking that question and and uh honoring the service that that they've done over the years, you know, be them a newer teacher or be them somebody to spend there that they've worked a long time and done something well with other teachers to try to keep them together. >> Thank you, Mr. President. >> Yes. >> Can I follow up on your question? Yeah. So those requests, will those requests will those requests be looked at and granted based upon seniority or based

077upon the building principles choices? How exactly will those requests be determined as to whether or not they're going to take that? >> Yep, I'll take that one. So >> obviously our goal is to give everybody a preference. Make sure that something we know that you know if we ask for four things, we're probably not going to be able to give you all four, right? But we're going to do the best we can to give you what your top choices are. In terms of decision making about placement and decisions, we'll follow our professional handbook in terms of if we have to do any reductions or if who gets to choose what over what. There's it's laid out in our professional handbook. >> Okay. >> The steps like seniority is a part of it. If you had

078anything disciplinary in your file is a part of it. Lure and certification is part of it. Right? Like we can't put somebody to kindergarten who can't teach certified teach kindergarten. So we just have to make sure we look at all those pieces to make sure we're first of all that we're in compliance with literature. That's my biggest thing probably. And then >> two so thank >> yes we don't want those we don't want those things from the states. So but again I think our goal is to come up with a way that we can get people at least one of their top preferences. >> Yeah. >> Back to your want to keep those people together. If they were for example Madison they they do have a very good academic rating. not just keep them together

079and move them to one school, but how do we expand it to another school? If we had an effective PLC, how are you know, how how do we [clears throat] share that knowledge and skill and ability? One of the things I've been um going to PLC's at the schools with principles um to do some coaching with them and one of the things that's that within a building you have all sorts of varieties of effectiveness with PLC's and so I think by bringing our schools together in this way I'm hoping that we're going to have outstanding PLC's because you might have a team at one school you know one or two teachers that are coming from one school to join another team and there could be some real strong PLC work happening within with parts of

080that team. And so I do see this as being something that can create strength for us, you know, across the board >> in the work that's already being done this year. we're providing professional development specifically for our principles which is one of the reasons Heidi and Katie are going to do observations with them is that really there's coaching of coaching which means we're really looking at um you know what types of questions and feedback our principles are giving our PLC's because they're going to have uh a huge impact on their growth in their schools. But what is also happening here is that our principles are getting together and talking about what is happening in their schools. What teams what are their teams that are being successful? What are those common denominators that are causing that?

081And that's that's already starting right now. But it should only enhance by having less school. >> I'm going to ask like Keith and that didn't count as my question. [laughter] It was really >> David You're only two left, I think. Um, first, can you share the feedback from the staff and parents, even students of those affected? Have you got gotten any of that back? What are our biggest concerns so far? I'm hearing neighborhood schools from some. um what are what are they saying? What are their what are they nervous about? >> So, it's only been a day, right? So, [laughter] haven't learned all that much, but last night we had a great group of parents. A couple of them are even here uh where we met with PTO, PTA leaders from across the district as

082well as our special education advocacy group. And really, one of the reasons we want to do that is first of all, we we want to honor their leadership in our district. um they're doing some great things uh to support us and and our kids. Um and really as I told one of the parents, they said, "Are you really going to change your mind because of these listening sessions?" And I said, "Well, it depends on what, right?" Like, we've crunched the numbers. I think the recommendations on building closures are the recommendations on building disclosures. You probably can't argue with what we've come to the conclusion on as far as logic and facts. However, even from our last listening session, there were two or three parents here who asked questions that we legitimately said we have not

083considered that and we were able to incorporate it in. So, what I'm expecting Ann to get a better handle on that is we're going to host that listening session Monday and we're going to have some information that we've collected thus far to help clarify if there have been questions submitted through the process that we have. But we're also going to find out a great deal that night because in addition to asking questions, people are going to be able to just sort of give their thoughts. So I'm anticipating getting um you know a good amount of feedback there. >> So we could potentially get some to our challenges. >> Sure. >> To the challenges. Yeah. And and and I will say that thus far I mean the concerns are um one of the reasons we did

084this in the order of operations that we did it was that the true ideas of the committee as far as teaching and learning like K4 elementaryaries 56 7 these things were fully vetted before we announced anything about school closures. So, we really felt like we've hurdled over some of that stuff and and and now we're really just getting into the nitty-gritty of those recommendations of what to do. >> Anybody else on that >> question? >> You're up. >> I appreciate it. Does seem like you've gone down every rabbit hole [laughter] >> that we've tried, >> but I'm going to take you on one. >> All right. >> Slide 10. >> Uh, increase co-curricular opportunities. So right now, Wilson 8th grade basketball team, Washington eighth grade basketball team at the new Washington. Are we going to

085be allowed probably in our conference to have two eighth grade Washington? >> Yeah. So, >> and >> it's not really conference at that level. They just sort of independently schedule. So, so we'll be able to have multiple teams. And what we would advocate for is we we run as many teams as we can uh as as as the number of kids who are signing up. >> So we're not going to eliminate any opportunity. >> Here's my question. >> Good question. >> Gym space. >> Okay. >> So maybe we would be back over to Wilson to use that for basketball or where are you having all these >> have the better gym. So there would be there would be basketball in each facility. However, they don't have to run at the same time. Fifth and sixth

086grade basketball is quite different than seventh and eighth grade basketball as it comes to scheduling and where those kids even play. So one of the things we're doing right now with our elementary is that they run them independently in these what four to six week sections. But the beauty of it now is they're not doing it independently at the different schools. They're going to be able to do it together. And so they'll be able to have their different teams within their learning community and play potentially at a completely different [clears throat] time than the kids at Wilson will need to play. Therefore, it would open up gym space. The other thing I would say is back in those very early days, I coached 9th grade basketball at Washington Junior [clears throat] High and I loved

087every minute of it. Um, but what we had there is a schedule that had to accommodate not only boys but girls in three grades. And so it's just a matter of, you know, scheduling and making sure uh that we're paying attention to that, but an opportunity to potentially expand gym space by running not concurrent basketball seasons for both kids or both grades. >> I'm sorry to interrupt the opportunity. Many of our sports teams, middle school and high school, right now go to our neighboring elementary building. So Jefferson's in super close proximity for a practice space. >> So it's not a problem, it's a probability. [laughter] >> I like that. >> Um Mr. President, does co-curricular and electives join one question or is it two separate questions? >> It's one it's one question. >> That's academic.

088One is sports. Go ahead. [laughter] >> It is. No, it's not sports, right? It's this is this is about electives at at the at the uh Washington 7th and seventh and eighth grade. So, I guess this goes to Kate or whomever. [clears throat] Um, but you talked about you mentioned more opportunities for to increase our electives during the past two administrations, even starting with Mr. Hollesman and Mr. file. The middle school elective process of having electives, uh, band, choir, orchestra, drama, going back to what we used to have as one of the most powerful foreign language programs in the entire state was decimated to every other day and and and all of those wonderful things that our district was noted for because I think research church will say the more you're involved, if you take

089a foreign language, your English skills and your reading skills are going to be better than ever. But when you decimate those electives and you you narrow them down, um that also increases productivity. So, I guess my question is, do you see or does this plan really think that we're going to get um and hopefully get back to a point where we can bring back these electives to feed our high school and have a continuum of services and also in the eighth grade go back to where we have advanced math kids. They can take algebra at that grade level like we used to, start their math track very very early and really excel in math all the way through school. That had been taken away. Everything was general math. Are we going to get to the

090point with this configuration to continue or start going back to those elaborate programs? I guess to both of you question. [laughter] >> Yes. Um Okay. >> [laughter] >> while you're ahead >> by by shifting um and you know truly upholding fifth and sixth grade curriculum as the state requires and elective opportunities for students. We have the opportunity to take the elective or you know noncore teachers that that that FTE or those staffing positions and move them to the 78 building so that we have wide wide variety of opportunities for students. So one of the constraints of the middle school model is that it just doesn't allow for elective choices. So it's traditional middle school. It's something that everybody that runs a traditional middle school model the a challenge that they face. Um one of the

091one of the difficulties in that is that we there has to be a rotation of certain specials in sixth grade. So then again, you know, we're getting back to that operating under different bell schedules and different class schedules that become challenging. Um, you know, with this opportunity, our department chairs are already dreaming and scheming about what we could do to have a schedule that allows for oral language to be taught on an everyday basis. um that our music division instead of having our fifth and our fifth and sixth graders participate in orchestra and band before school, we would have music options during the day that would allow students to choose and differentiate between orchestra, band, and choir right away in that fifth and sixth grade level. Um, we also right now because we have limited

092elective offers opportunities and offerings, our students tend to have an elective in their rotation that is not a preferred elective. Um, and that creates behavioral challenges. It's not great for students in engagement when you're in a course that you're not super interested in. So by allowing for some more choice and creating those opportunities, we we will be able to support students in having what they want as part of their school day, which again should increase engagement and achievement and all the good things that coming come with having those parts of your day that bring preference and joy to your day. And yes, there's still we still do have algebra um in eighth grade for students, but we would be able to expand beyond just math advanced offerings um into into other core opportunities and areas

093because we'd have some flexibility to do that >> with possibly more than one section. >> Correct. Correct. >> Advanced English, advanced math. We can start >> and equitable opportunities. Right now, some of those opportunities because of staffing constraints aren't available in one middle school and they are available in another middle school. This eliminates those inequities between our two middle buildings and creates opportunities for all of our students at those grade levels in both of our buildings. >> Dr. T. >> Okay. I have a kind of a question. Um but you know being me I have to um you know >> it seems to me that the the 56 slash 78 is a fairly a fairly fairly big and potentially disorienting kind of process. Um I'm I'm I'm the only one on the board that's uh

094that was was on the board when successful all came up and I kept asking for come on give me the data you know in a profession which seems to live and die by the data I thought well come on give me give me give me the data and give me comparable examples etc etc and I kept getting you know from the administration then uh material that was produced by the success for all corporation which of course you know flattered itself immensely and I never did get any of any of the any of the hardcore [clears throat] information that I sought. Um, I've read the enhanced, you know, u material on on why the the the, you know, the new arrangement is a good one. And I and I and and that includes, you know, the

095fact that West appear, Kimberly, and Little run [clears throat] these programs. Um, they're fairly affluent. They're fairly affluent school systems. Are there any other ones that are less affluent? >> Yep. >> More comparable to ours that do this and could we get the data on how it is how it is impacted >> learning and and and the well-being of kids. >> Yep. Manasha. >> Manasha. Okay. Yeah, when we when we share um report card data next week, you'll see all of the comparables to MA Manasha um their achievement data because they are very similar to us. Um they have one building five through eight separate wings of their building um that's you know very similar in size to us, very similar in demographic, very similar in free lunch, socio all. So you'll >> So this

096how long have they been doing this this five, six, seven, eight. >> Okay. >> I can find out long enough that they produced a kind of a district, >> you know, an indication of what's we have we have that comparable data for you. So >> So I was the only one that voted against success for all and therefore was the only one on the board that was right. So [laughter] I want the data here so that I I know how to vote on this sucker. [laughter] >> Any other questions related to that >> to success for all? No. >> Houses. >> Thank you. >> The the five six schools will they be organized by house? That's all I needed to say. Thank you. >> Chris, you're up. >> My question. Okay, this is a two-part

097question. First part is very short. I just want to make sure that I understand using a modern analogy. If the board approves this plan, then the following schools are not voted off the island. Right. It would be Franklin, Jefferson, Monroe, and Stangle. Correct. >> Correct. >> Those would be the elementary school. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, here's my question. Do we have plans to redesign traffic patterns around these four schools to make them more friendly for the modern highly transported students? >> I've already looked into that and um I haven't [snorts] delved into it too deeply but definitely. >> Yes. So kind of >> yes. >> All right. So the the other part >> there were some recommendations made as part of the CISA 10 around that um certainly when we're talking about [clears throat]

098again just using the scenario if the board approves $6.6 million of funds that would be able to be redistributed amongst our priorities safety and getting kids in and out of schools is one of those. So that is a potential use of the dollars that essentially we would save from the closed schools that we could invest into those spots for our district and our safety of getting kids to and from. Now what I will tell you is I get a chance to see in action our great cross walk folks. Um, for example, this morning I was over at Jackson School and when I left Jackson School, um, there were one, two, three people that I saw with stop signs at very busy intersections, including Waldo, Waldo Boulevard from there. And so, you know, what we lack

099for infrastructure, we certainly take great care with the people to assist our kids to get into school. So, I don't want to, you know, alarm people that we're not safe. We are, but it's it's that the the the infrastructure around some of our old schools need updating. Yes. >> To be safer for our pedestrian kids. >> Related to that question, do we have any idea cuz because I'm a neighborhood school walk to school guy, but I also realize that many many more families now just take their kids to school and drop them off. Do we have any data on >> Yeah. >> percentage of kids that are driven to school? >> So, here's what I would show you. And I and let me just look one second here and I have some information. Uh, so

100this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but I think it gives you somewhat of an idea. Let's go to some neighborhood schools. These are kids. These are the number of kids who ride the buses. Monero 83, >> Franklin 47, >> Jackson 39. >> And so those are just some ideas of how many ride bus. Now what I would tell you in terms of drop off is I don't have percentages and I don't know other than a survey how we would actually get to that. However, by observation, we have lots and lots of parents dropping kids off at school. >> I think the teachers I always know. >> Yes. who's getting picked up and who needs to get on the bus. >> I drive by Jackson and it's busy. You really have to slow down. >>

101We can get fast. >> Anything else on this? Keith, you're up. [laughter] >> Stay out of your way, sir. This is really quite quick. I remember in in the facilities committee or the finance committee last year we have a class of special education I guess back to Kate that's at Cambridge Hall or the old LTC >> thank you [clears throat] um >> Cambridge >> and I think last year I looked in in the finance report that's $28,000 a year >> 32 I thought >> 28 that's what I thought it Is that another program that can be that we can save the money and take that out of Clarkbridge and move over to the UW and save >> that would be the plan. So all of our GED alternative high school programs that are currently housed

102at the Stangle building and then the 18 to 21 year olds that are at Clark Ridge Hall would all move over to W Manitwalk. Um, and then for essentially a very similar cost at that building to house all of those programs as opposed to rent the rental of one classroom at Quartridge. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, so that's reflected on the financial implications. >> Not directly, not that part of it. >> Signal, that's not signed, sealed, and delivered until the until the vote happens. So, >> that my question was along those lines. My last one. So, [laughter] >> Mary, you're up. >> Oh, no. I'm supposed to ask it. >> I'm going to ask it. >> I'm sorry. >> Um along those lines with the Clark Bridge, um I I've gotten some feedback that,

103you know, attendance is important for our report cards, right? So, are our specials are GEDO2, right? Are they included in that? and our >> internet >> alternative pathways that's they're all included in that at the WGB manitwalk to me walking in hey I'm I'm going work kids are going to college >> is our attendance better than say Clark >> um so our students at Clarkbridge Hall are primarily students with most significant disabilities um that have opportunities because they have an IEP to extend programming until they're 21 years of age, their attendance is pretty great. Um, [clears throat] >> okay. >> Regardless of where they will be. Um, what this does is, you know, it is important for students with disabilities at any age to be around same age peers. So, what this does do is

104it puts them in a facility around non-disabled same age peers and have access and opportunities to participate in programming there for them. So, um it's a it's a very appropriate setting um with increased opportunities for them to be around kids that are that are not disabled. And for a group that does go to UWGB, our current way that Christristen Lee runs GEO2 program yields very high uh participation and attendance. [clears throat] >> Well, even a collaboration, having all those met together, a great opportunity. >> Yeah. Okay, Mary, got anything else? >> Yep. Slide eight referenced a balanced instructional report uh support and listed five uh areas specifically EL reading, math, and instructional helpers, right? Those that support the programs. I just I as you were talking, I wrote down the word space for them. So,

105I'm understanding on a footprint there's room for our little people, our students and their teacher. Are there spaces um or are we going to have a reading and a math person stuck in a closet somewhere? >> We have spaces um there are a lot like um I was at Monroe I was actually at all the school all the elementary schools today. Um at Monroe we I was just looking at as we were walking through at all the little spaces like speech teacher or for the and there are right now what we have is an entire classroom that has an EL teacher. She doesn't need a classroom. She needs a smaller, you know, she's got like a group of four kids coming in. What we just have right now is lots of people in these really

106big rooms that they normally wouldn't be in. Um I don't think we're going to have anybody in closets. Gary [clears throat] on 5678. How many teachers do we currently have teaching sixth and seventh grade students at the same time? Because we'll have to cut them. Now depending might only have to cut them in quarter because they might be doing 3/4 six and one quarter step >> or half. I hope you understand the question. I'm sorry. >> How many teachers currently are teaching both sixth grade classes and seventh grade classes? Because >> I'd have to defer to both of the building administrators to answer that question. Um, as we talk about like what if this would pass and then creating sections and those kinds of things, we have to look at certification areas and and decide

107what we need. But um you know for staff that currently are teaching fifth grade, moving to this model will likely reduce the number of subject areas that they teach. The goal would be that they would specialize in two subject areas as part of a house team. So they may be a literacy and a social studies teacher or a science and a math teacher. Um which will be different than what their current elementary assignment is. But we will defer to building administration and then building leaders to help navigate what all of that looks like and subject areas that are being taught. Those kinds of things. >> So we do not envision anybody being a traveling teacher because they teach sixth and seventh. Correct. >> It would be one or the other. >> Okay. >> Thank you.

108>> There's just such nuances and differences between Yeah. you know. So, um, so the goal would be Wilson Wilson staff or Wilson staff. There would not be even with elective teachers for the most part, not a lot of traveling needed between buildings anymore. >> That would be the goal. >> Thank you. >> I don't have any questions. Seriously, [laughter] >> I was able to tag on to him. >> Yeah. >> Um, okay. So, >> we've got the information asked questions. >> No. Here's my question to the board. Do you want to open this up and discuss it now? Would you rather wait to see public input, public concern and then discuss it at the 1290? >> I'd rather listen to the public [clears throat] >> before we, you know, so that we know all >>

109No, we're not voting tonight. But do you want that discussion to come after the public has input on the first meeting or at the board meeting before or do you want to hash out and discuss stuff now? It's Just asking because >> what what is the opportunity for folks that cannot make it on Monday night? >> They could come on the 12th to public input >> The 9th, I'm sorry. 12 night. Uh they could come that night and have input at the board meeting. Um >> are you do are you still doing the Google form? >> Yep. We have process in place to collect all that. Yep. So we should have those results. we should have results from the Monday night and and the superintendent has told me that if there's an overwhelming number of

110people on that Monday night, he would set up another one before our meeting. The public could come again. >> Um so I if we feel like there's a need there's a need, we'll do that. >> Chris, >> I think what I'm hearing from folks is um sometimes finding a babysitter for an evening meeting is an extra burden on them. Um, so perhaps a daytime, >> Sure, we can do a daytime >> considered that their children are at school and that it would be a little easier for them. >> Sure. >> Thank you, sir. My preference would be that we give adequate time for the public to both get the information and then ask their questions hopefully to board members, share their perspectives hopefully to board members, um, and then we could get together and look

111at it. Now all of you know I am the last person on the planet that advocates for yet another meeting. However, I do not think a regular meeting is best choice with the closeness of it and I think perhaps a special meeting even if it's not on the usual special meeting Tuesday might be better. That's just my perspective >> and that's one of the things that that the superintendent and I have talked about that that on the 9th with his meeting on the Monday and possibly another one and then 9th if we have a lot of public input having been in government a long time. I would hope that we might take that public input in, consider it, >> process it, and then instead of having that special meeting >> the week of Christmas, is

112that on the calendar? Am I right there? >> It would be the 20th. >> Could we go we go a week earlier? Like a week right after the 9th, could we get together on that Tuesday, take all that public input we got, all that? Yeah. all that information we got consider you've got to consider if there's public input we have to think about that however if the meetings don't bring out a lot of people and there's not a lot of people on the night maybe then that opportunity opens up an opportunity to vote on it because they appreciate the work that's been done but you've got to give people an opportunity for input >> well I agree with I agree with everything you said, but having been through on a board and in a community

113that has gone through one one major switch to even the middle school, this board cannot drag out the decision. It's not fair to the staff. It's not fair to the people in the buildings. It's not fair to the public. Um it it's certainly not fair to the teachers to to I think have to wait through the holidays wondering where they're going to be next year after the new year starts. I think it would be just horrible on our part to keep delaying a conversation and a vote to let the staff know because they are the ones that are impact. It was it was very difficult when we did it 11 years ago because Mr. Hollesman was going to peacemeal it. He was going to do this for a while and this for a while and

114the staff said don't do that to us. Make a decision. Get it done. And yes, it's going to be a chaotic semester before we all move or wherever the schools are going to be going. the the buildings are grounds people were working their bodies off to get these buildings ready. But it really came as don't drag this out you guys. This you we we as a staff one it's going to be tough. It's emotional but we have to be prepared. Start working with our groups as Heidi explained. Start having these transition teams start working and getting it done. So, I'm in favor of meeting again and I'm in favor of listening, but I'm not in favor of dragging this thing out for three, four, five more weeks before we vote. >> Well, I um I

115I had just assumed we were going to take this up on the 9th. Is that is that too soon? I think >> Well, because the the public input is on the first, >> right? Correct. I agree. and and and in my experience there are many people who don't go to those meetings. They come to the board meeting because that's where they see the board. >> Oh, >> and they're speaking to the board and they feel that's more that's more this is what I think rather than having anformational meeting. We are um we are advertising it though as a board meeting and we're letting people know that their feedback will be given to >> and if and or Mary said if we open up a day day >> listening session I get it there's plenty of

116there's been plenty of opportunity they can go online they can call anybody they can call any of the directors I get that um I agree with Carrie the ninth the ninth is is very important and and I I'll reiterate we can't drag this out for the staff. It's not fair to them. >> Do you feel the 18th is too late? >> The 18th of December. >> December. >> I think it's getting there. >> Plus, you're in the holidays. You think people are going to be during the holiday? >> So, the 16th of December would be the date we would decide. Is that too late or is that >> I would only put it as a contingency if these listening sessions and this feedback I I I guess I don't see why Lee can't and administrative

117not >> a lot of us may be able to attend not all of them but if we're listing them as meetings and we're all attending and we're all listening >> couldn't sure couldn't wouldn't one solution be because it's again it's really the collective board that decides this. So, what if on the 9th you have your input session, you have any other questions that remain and if the will of the board is to make a motion and act, make a motion and act. If it's not, then schedule your 16th. >> I mean, that could be one way you do it. I mean, if there's no input on the knife. >> Okay. Yeah, that's good. >> We could discuss it. >> Any other input? >> Thank you again. >> Yeah, really Saturdays and I appreciate the heavy

118lifting you've done. Yes. >> And one more extension to the thanks to those who brought the recommendations to begin with. >> Yeah. >> And then extending it to make the hard decisions with with >> Chris. Okay. Just just to get to my fourth question. >> Okay. >> Um do we have a clear understanding in when we're going to have a recommendation about Lincoln new high school rebuild Lincoln, >> etc. because that is the number one question I am getting out in the real world. >> Yeah. So, Mr. Hacker is here tonight and he's facilitated facilitated these conversations around the state. U Mr. Hacker, if we were to reconvene our our um committee, let's say over the summer months, perhaps in in July, um what would you uh recommend to the board as a reasonable timeline

119to potentially have some options reported to them? >> Yeah. So, um, as we've dialogued about this a little bit just in prep for this type of question that's that's come up this [clears throat] process, depending on the types of options that emerge, sometimes that process moves more quickly, sometimes it takes a little bit longer. Uh, if, as an example, the options were we love where we're at, we love our two schools for our intermediate middle, they're the right spots, they're the right architecture, we just want to make them like new. That's pretty clear, right? As soon as we start saying, "Nope, we want to look different, be somewhere different, uh be under one roof versus under two separate roofs, uh the options start to build very quickly." Okay. And and with that, you need to

120start to look at site capacity. You know, can we fit everything on one site? If not, where would that what might that site look like? As you just noted, if if this as it extends to start to think about Lincoln, what does that mean for Lincoln? Um a whole another layer to the dialogue, right? because now we're talking about uh a very clear clearly identifiable icon in the community as Lincoln being the high school. And when that shifts a whole separate set of dialogue around what does that mean? Are we shifting how we use Lincoln? Are we not using Lincoln anymore? Is Lincoln a middle school? Is it right? Then that dialogue starts to to build. Okay. um if in fact uh the path is towards a significant investment which there is a need for

121right whether it's in our two existing buildings or in response to something different uh that likely is a referendum path something right and I don't use that word lightly I fully understand what that means but that's funding mechanism that school districts have so um if that starts to emerge as an option this process needs to start to line itself up with a referendum cycle which is a whole separate set of dialogues around what is the right cycle and what is the process to get feedback from the community via maybe a survey as an example and start to work towards what hopefully is a a community strengthening referendum uh that that looks at what secondary education looks like in the district for a long long time. Okay. So long answer short, right? This could be a

122three, four, five month process to start to allow those options to emerge very quickly and then we'll have some dialogues about what what does that mean? Okay. And and you know where where might what might next steps look like. >> Okay. So, for clarity, I hope um December 1st, and I'm kind of looking at the future meeting dates. Deep December 1st is the LHS auditorium public meeting, public input. Um curriculum, instruction, personal policy committees. On the second, there is no finance committee that week. There's nothing on the agenda. >> You guys can pay me later. >> [laughter] >> So if the curriculum committee and the personnel committee does not have anything those could be cancelled also. >> Oh >> we have I think there are things >> to move our stuff to the finance and

123facility. >> All right. Motion not accepted. >> Uh December 9th is our regular board meeting. Um there is a public input meeting at Lincoln and that night of the meeting if there is little public input on this issue um we could take up the approval of this at that meeting. Okay. Yeah. >> Point of question. Is there going to be a daytime public input session schedule? Why don't we see what turnout we get and what the potential okay for that would be that people folks should feed back or how >> I would we would push it out on all of our we we would throw it out on our >> see what kind of interest there is in it. >> I see. >> Well, you generally you can tell by the events themselves. So, um,

124but I mean it's not a big deal to do a, you know, 90 minute thing and schedule it for next week, uh, Thursday, for example, at 2:00. We'll look at our schedule. We'll put something on if there is an option, um, and invite people in at that time. >> So, we'll try to do that if there's a need. And then on the 16th of December, we would have a special meeting if needed. And that would be the night we would make the decision if we don't do anything on the 9th. That clear screw that up. >> So we're suggesting the 23rd special meeting gets moved to the 16th. >> Right. Get it away from that. >> DVD. >> Yeah. Yes. >> May May I ask the superintendent a clarifying question? >> Sure. Certainly. >> On

125December >> second no >> first on December 1st. >> Yeah. You are allowing public questions, public commentary, >> all of it. >> Either both. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, we'll lay out some, you know, >> expectations and then uh how it'll get formatted would be we'll have two microphones and then folks can form lines behind the microphones and we'll go alternate back and forth and questions, comments, concerns, we'll do the best we can to answer them uh or respond to them. And if it's just comments, we'll accept those, listen to them, uh, and, uh, move through it that way. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And there are opportunities online to give input. >> Yeah, we have a whole page dedicated to this on our website of our schools, our future, and there is a place

126where you can put in your questions that we can add to our frequently asked questions document, which we already started uh, back when we basically began this process with the recommendations from the committee. So, I'm comfortable with the way that we're taking input. I'm comfortable with the way that the plan came forward from the committee. Um, and I'm comfortable that the public will have a say in what we're doing. And I think when we cover that and we cover the wise use of their tax money, I think the right thing. So, yes, I am completely thankful to the team for putting this all together. such tremendous amount of work, great information. So, thank you. Thank you for all of your work, your efforts, um what has gone into this and uh proposal that that has

127some merit and thank you for all your hard work. Just remember that they do that every day. >> Yeah, they really have and we're lucky with the leadership we have. >> All right, I think we have nothing else. Do I have a motion to adjourn? So move. >> Do I have a second? [clears throat] All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Post say nay. >> We are ajourned. Thank you for your time, guys. Thanks, sir.