001You good? >> They still won't. >> All right. The meeting will now come to order. We're going to do a roll call. M. Propes >> here. >> Mrs. Brunette >> here. >> Mr. Cowie. >> Mr. Glad here. >> Mr. Hirsh. >> Yep. >> Mrs. Oh, I'm sorry. Miss Johnson, >> yes, >> I'm here. Please rise for the pledge led by Miss Katherine Rubiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. The agenda was posted throughout the district court and schoolboard policy and posted on the district web page. I needed approval for the November 19th special session agenda. Motion in a second, please. >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. I'll
002second it. >> All those in favor, please say I. I. >> All right. Item four, determination of the superintendent search process with C12 search consultant, Mr. Nick Madison. So, I think the this is really I mean, we had a conversation on the phone. Give us I think timelines, rundown, expectations, and we roll from there. >> So, you've got a folder in front of you if you want to take that out. Um, I've got a number of documents in here. It looks like you want to we want to start with the third one. It says it's got uh tonight's date on it says board of education meeting little tire. Um that's where we want to start. Um just to kind of go through this whole process and everything that's about and then also some of the
003there's some things we have to decide tonight as well. Um I have some dates and numbers in there but that's those are just um some things that I can explain later. But I guess just to um start with the very first thing number one where it says role definition that's kind of where I like to start um with a search process just to talk about what's your role as a board what's my role as a search consultant and um how do we how do we move forward? Um, I think I know most of you. Um, but those who don't, I'm Nick, um, Madison. I'm from CISA 12 in Ashland. Um, um, and just spending another day today just saving you money like always, right? You know, um, just stretching your educational services dollar. That's what
004that's what that's what I do. Um, um, uh, and but seriously, um, yes, um, there is, uh, you know, you we we are a fee for service. We do not get any tax dollars. we only exist by the revenue that we create. The revenue that you see in that um uh contract is is a part of it. Um I also like to point out though that as because you're part of CISA, there's a lot of free stuff that you get um mostly between grants and contracts from the state. We're kind of unique amongst CISAs that we are um we are probably over half funded by grants and contracts. So everything you see on that contract, you get about that much um um that you don't have to pay for as well. And uh the we
005as a CISA 12 kind of benefit a little bit more from that um because a lot of times state contracts, not always, but enough that it makes they're divided by 12. And so we get a 12th of the pie on a lot of things and we're not a 12th of the of the students or the schools in the state. We're about 1% or 1.8, 8 I think. So we're So we do we do kind of benefit in some ways um and in other ways um you know we kind of exist that way but that's um I am um you know as been said yes I am a I am a a Northwestern High graduate of 85. Um we will have a couple people involved in the search process that are also uh as we get
006down the road that are Northwestern graduates. So we have a we have a pretty we have a pretty vested interest in the outcome. We have a pretty vested interest in um this place this school. Um, we are, you know, we we we are this this is this this is my home, too. This is I always said this is I uh dissected my first cat in this room here um back 40 years ago. >> It wasn't your last. >> Wasn't my >> How many cats have you >> No knowledge of that, but I know that >> YouTube before you. Yeah, Doug Standon had a little storage room back in there and we had our little cutup tables out here. So, um yeah, that um u but here we are and uh looking for a superintendent. So,
007I think that the main thing that I like to talk about with role definition, you know, my role, your role is I think the main thing that I really like to emphasize with boards is that selecting the superintendent is is your role. It is what you do. And as a board it is, I believe the most important decision you you do. It's the of the one task that is clearly yours to do. Um this is one of them and this is the most important thing. So uh this process, this effort, this is a big this is a big deal and um not every CISA does searches. Um they're a lot of time, a lot of nights. Um I do them um because I because I think they're important. Um there I you know there's no
008um I I a lot of the other people that you saw bids from like you know they they do it as a a job which is fine. They get paid for it. Um I don't get paid extra for this because um that's not why we do this. Um we do this because we think it's important. We think it matters and we want to help you make the decision. Um we also want to make sure that I'll talk about this that you are nobody gets you don't hire somebody that slipped through the cracks or um or or make make a bad hire. Um, you know, we really want to do our we really take a big stake in doing the background of these candidates and not only the recruitment, but really the screening. I I just
009don't believe that anybody's going to get through our process or at least they haven't yet. Um, with some skeleton that we didn't know about. Um, we're pretty connected to the rest of the state. Um, it's just, you know, I know my counterparts and every other CISA, I'll call them on these. Um, so, um, we really I really push trying to get to know these people, which I have to do the right way, but, um, I think that's important. So, you know, I think in terms of role definition, that's that's the thing I would emphasize. This is your decision. This is your search and I'm here to support you. There's some things that I will do. I will sit with you the entire process. I'll be here to answer your questions. I'll be here to help
010you. Um I will you know make sure that um these we that there's recruitment that happens. I'll make sure that there's correct screening of candidates that happen. I will help facilitate and making sure that we do the interviews correctly. I will make sure that we um have a process. I think that one of the advantages of our process as we go through it is that the person that gets hired does have pretty wide support when they're hired. um the there's going to be a community, there's going to be that they'll have input and they'll have even though it's your decision, not theirs. Um the staff, the community will have a will have a role in this whole process um as well. And so I do think that that you know support is is is important.
011>> Um >> can I interrupt you before you go too far? >> Does I don't think everybody here knows your background and I think support >> Northwestern. What more is there to know? Well, well, I mean, you're you're not you're not I mean, and I speak pretty >> you're not just a suit sitting here. You're you're you have history and and a >> Yeah. So, I was um I was I was I was a classroom teacher in Amry where I had a certain student um there. So, uh, um, >> and and their brother and, uh, and her brother, >> watch them run around the track a few times. Um, and so I was, I was a teacher in Amry. I was a high school principal in Ashlin. Um, and then I was the superintendent at
012the Brilliant Public Schools, which is a school about the same size as Northwestern, um, over near Green Bay. Um, and I was a superintendent there for 16 years. And then I have I'm in now in my fifth year as the agency administrator at CISA 12. Um my um my mother was a superintendent. So it's kind of just a family business. Um and she was also the special ed director um for a while here in the Maple schools um in the late 70s, early 80s. Had her office in the middle school. Um my dad um was a teacher at Southshore. He taught there for over 30 years and he and he still lives there. So, um, that's kind of my connection. That's just a little bit of my of my background. Um, >> which I think
013is valuable when when we had I mean, I hadn't met Nick until we had done the first search. And um since then it's the knowing that you understand the superintendent side of things, the background, all the nuances and the the various little things that that all of us aren't going to understand that that brings value to this as well. So it it helps with that interview process as well. Just it like I said, you're not just somebody that that got hired that doesn't understand the educational system. Yeah. And and it may or may not be relevant, but I'll I'll throw it out there anyways. Yeah. I mean, and I and it selection and hiring is kind of always is a big interest of mine. Has been um it's it's what I wrote my doctoral dissertation
014on was hiring. So, I mean, in interviewing and how to do that. So, yeah, I mean, it's uh it's it's something that I' i've been interested in for the reason that I really started at the outset here. I just think it's the most important thing we do. It's the most important thing you do. And um there's some ways you can do it wrong. And hopefully there's we're going to we're going to we're going to do it right. Um I I think that the recruitment is is going to be a big part of this. Um you know there I when we're looking at candidates, you know, we're not going to get 30 applicants for this position. Um and I I was talking to some people downstate about the position because I think this would be, you
015know, a great fabulous job. It's a fabulous school. It's got a lot of great things going on and I'm like, you know, and you got the Louis Superior right there if you need the city stuff and uh it's really not that remote and um but the whole like the whole like south of eight they we're we're remote like there's no way to argue it. They just think that we're in the middle of nowhere, I guess. So, uh >> we'll take your resume. >> What's that? What's that? >> We'll take your resume. >> Yeah. He doesn't want to move. >> Too remote. >> Back to Lake Nagaman. Yeah. >> Um >> sorry. >> Yeah, I grew up in Lake Mag. That's that is the that is where I that is the corner of this district that
016I'm from. Um so, um that's just kind of a bit of role definition. Um um me you that's kind of where we're at. Um the the other um piece I do like to emphasize in upfront is just confidentiality in the process. Um, one of the things, one of the other reasons um that we do these searches is to I do think it's important to treat the candidates well and to treat them appropriately and um and I'm kind of their point of contact. And so, you know, I make sure when somebody doesn't move as soon as we kind of move beyond somebody into the next round or hires, whatever, you know, I make sure everybody knows that, hey, we're we've moved on and thanks for applying. It's just what, you know, you weren't a fit here.
017I communicate that with them a lot. Um, they also know that they a lot of the candidates know they can call me because one of the things that's very difficult as a as a school administrator is that a lot of this stuff can be public and if it's public that can hurt you in your current job and uh it's just like you know nobody, you know, it's always kind of like h you know, okay, now they're looking and you know they and and and it's also kind of embarrassing if you everybody knows you applied for jobs and don't get it. And so, um, I try to make this process a very safe, um, place where they I don't want to say safe space because that's got a whole another connotation, but it's it's a place
018where they can apply and be safe and know that, hey, I want as a candidate explore, is this a good fit for me as much as the board determines are am I a good fit for them? And I think you get a better pool if you know that if the candidates know that the process is going to be a good one and one that's going to be safe for them and one that's going to be secure for them and one that you know they're not going to you know if they don't get hired they're not going to um everybody isn't going to know it. And so as we go through this process, um you'll be looking at applications, you'll be interviewing people. Um just really emphasize confidentiality in terms of not talking about who applied,
019not who talk about whose resume you did. Um just like you would in any closed session. It's really important. Um and we'll talk about when it does become public, but and what the rules are for that as well as we as we go through this. Um, let me just go through a little bit of timeline of the hiring process. That's an XP and I put the dates down. Um, and so, but we not because we have to have those dates, but that's my suggested dates. Those will work for me. Um, and let's just see. But we should decide if those are going to work tonight before we go. But let me just go through them first of all to talk about what they what each one I mean tonight we're obviously doing the planning meeting.
020We're going to determine all this stuff and I'm going to talk about it. Um, and if everything goes well, then we will we'll try to get that posted tomorrow or Friday, but right away. And and and and it'll be posted then through um the end of December. So, it'll be about a fiveweek posting. Um, which is which is pretty good. And >> you clarify when you say where is that posting? >> So, we will we will post it in multiple platforms. Um, we can is where is kind of like the platform where everybody looks. So, it'll be on WeCAN, it'll be on our website, it'll be on your website. Okay. Um that's you know that's where that's where people are. Yeah that's where people kind of are. >> Um and um I would say that
021>> you know in addition to that you know it is about me calling people and trying to recruit them too. >> Um I would say >> you know most of the people apply because they see it posted but about a third of them are probably you know people we've tried to talk to and I >> and we're already talking people are calling me already. Um you know I've had like three calls already. So um >> um quick the first thing that pops out on the dates is the posting is like right on the holidays. It is it not an option to go after the holidays when people might be a little more focused? >> Yeah. Well, if you look at I think most people if they're looking I mean that gives them and the application
022process is really simple like I we try to keep it not >> very ownorous so that >> because no one's you know there's no point really writing six essays you know they have a degree they should have written to get that degree um they're going to write a letter we can if we need a writing sample so I don't think it's that big and I think I mean there are there are positions already posted now um there's four or five already posted um There's also a CISA posting that's got all of the postings for the state on it. Um it's just something that goes out to all the school districts. Um so that's like a a fourth place kind of. Um I I you know I I think if you're gonna if you're going to
023apply I think you know Yeah. It's going to be posted over. It's also that's when people kind of can do it because >> Exactly. >> True. >> Yeah. That's true. You get a lot of off time. >> Yeah. That's when they're kind of downtime. So it's kind of >> more time we can have it out there I think the better. >> That's true. that I did think about how much you know the school's closing in that period. >> Yeah. And then and and then if you look at the rest of the the the posting as well or the process um you know if it closes on the 31st and then we meet and I'll I'll take everything and I'll put it in a Google Drive so you can read through it and look at it.
024Um and then we'll come on the 5th which is a Monday and just look at those um look at the applications and decide who do we want to interview. Um, and typically when we look at that, we'll try to um interview on the 13 on two nights. Um, and I would recommend that we try to interview about eight people. Um, it's that would be the goal would be to interview about four people each night. Uh, as and that is a a first round of an the first round. And so I will have questions there. Well, and it's and it's it's that first round is kind of much tighter. It's a It's kind of a screener. So, every candidate comes in, they're going to get asked exact same questions in the exact same order. I'll ask
025the questions, you guys can focus on listening to what they say and um you know, because that's your role. And um you know, we'll try to keep it the same as we can for all eight. And then from those eight, we'll we'll select finalists, which we try to get I mean, the goal for finalists is to get two. Um, but sometimes you're at three and you know it just kind of it doesn't have to be you're going to see where there's kind of a break. Um, I've had I've had boards that have wanted to interview four as finalists and I've kind of said, "Look, you really don't have four. You have two that you want to interview and two you feel like you have to, don't you?" And they're like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Okay, let's
026just interview the ones that you want to and I'll have a conversation with the other two." Because sometimes it's hard. >> Um, but it's not hard and fast. Once we get to the the kind of the magical cut off point in with the according to the attorney general is that once you get to four they're public. Um so if you if you get below that um you have to have five or more to keep it confidential. >> Okay. >> Once you get to four those then they're considered finalists and they end up in the paper. >> Yeah. Even if you just say hey the first round we're only going to interview four. Well, you want to interview at least five because you don't if you interview just four that first round, they're considered finalists. And
027so, um, and so, yeah, after that first round interview, we get into the second round. The second round we will, um, we will have, we can talk about that a little more, but, we'll we'll have a group interviews um where we will the candidate will interview again with the board and then with a community andor staff group. And we can talk about that a little bit here too. >> And it was based on your dates here. The after the 15th after January 15th. >> Yep. >> We we convene after that and get that list down to >> down to finalist >> less than Yeah. Down to the finalists and then >> and then we go to the 26th. >> Yeah. >> Yep. And I think it's good to put the dates out there so when
028people are applying they can kind of plan for it and because you know we try to do a quick turnaround and um you know this is an early you know this it won't be the first person hired but it but it is a you're getting that the you're getting the pool of first round of people that are you know the first pool of candidates who who can who want to be hired. And if I remember correctly from the last time we had done this, um, those initial candidates, you do a I'm gonna say like a a rather vanilla screening of them for the initial interviews for the 13th and the 15th. And then the difference between the 15th and the 26th when we've chosen our finalists, you do a rather comprehensive background. >> Yeah. And
029I am right. Yeah, I think and I remember specifically the last time we did it. I I'll do like you said a light screening, find out if there's any red flags >> and um when we when we convened on that first screening committee one on the 5th um there was a candidate that you guys knew we didn't want. But I didn't know that yet. I did find out why. But um but uh but uh so I mean that that that was kind of unique, but it did happen. And you know that's it's just the sometimes it goes that way too. So yeah, it's not the end of the world if we interview somebody on the 13th and 15th. That may not be the best because we can still find out about it. But but why,
030you know, but it's we definitely want them pretty screened by the time we get to the even even between the 5th and the 13th, I'll try to do a little bit more. It's just as as each stage, it just becomes a little bit more digging. I need a reminder of the deadlines that are kind of driving the schedule. Um, as far as when we have to have a contract in place or can someone refresh? >> There really isn't any in that way. No, I think this is just, you know, you can set your own deadlines here and um yeah, you know, you really don't have any any time on on the front end. I think you're thinking like non-renewal timelines. >> I'm just trying to understand. Yeah, >> making sure I can appreciate what's driving
031these dates. I think the only thing driving them is just to get, you know, you're getting the first pool of candidates and the pools is big because it's early, then some of those people will get hired and, you know, and I don't think you want to rush it too much under that. So, I don't want to overstate that, but that's that's really the only thing you're trying to do at this point. Um, I also like >> this timeline a little bit too because we typically are able to do some candidate screening at the schoolboard convention. Um, >> having that week in between. So, I do kind of like having that when we can we can do that in a search as well. >> The other thing is I do believe because they're gonna be looking
032for a high school principal. >> That's part of the other thing too. >> Um, and I've already been I mean, this is a little bit of a segue. I've been asked that a couple of different times already about what's the board's position on the principal and um I have said that's the position hiring a principal is a superintendent's job. So, uh, now I'm not saying that we in this unique situation that we might not have to have a foot in that door a little bit, but I think it's important that we hire the superintendent knowing and during maybe during that interview process knowing that, hey, we have to hire a um, a high school principal at this point and he's also the athletic director, so we have to navigate all of that as well. And
033I would expect that that whoever the hireer is is going to want to be part of that and that's it as well. But I do believe don't administrative contracts have to be at least um handed out by the district by like February 15th, February 20th, something like that. >> You don't have to do the initial one. That's just it. You have that that's your non-renewal deadline is by the end of January. So if you don't give preliminary notice by January 30th, >> um then they automatically renew to a two-year contract. So, um, even if they're on a one year. So, that that January 30th is key because if you don't non-renew, they automatically renew. >> So, but if you but to create an initial one, it's it's you can do that anytime. >> Okay. All
034right. Um, okay. So, that's the timeline. Um, I think I talked a little bit about the recruitment effort as well. Um, I want to get to the salary range because I did do some work on that and the number that I have there. Um there is a reason for that number. Um and this this doesn't marry you to a contract but this is I do think posting a salary range is important. Um and so what I did was I um did a salary analysis um which I um so I took the 20 school districts in the state, the 10 smaller the 10 next smallest ones and the 10 next bigger ones. So the 10 on each side of Northwestern's enrollment. Um, and then I looked up all their superintendent salaries. Um, and then I averaged
035them. And then I looked at the Heart of the North Conference, looked up all the superintendent salaries, and then I averaged them. And then I looked at all of the districts that border Northwestern um, and averaged them. Um, and then I took the three averages and averaged them. So there's a lot of um, and then I increased it by inflation because the numbers that I have are for 2425 school year. And um this is for the a 26 27 contract. So it's like two years, you know, in between. And I basically basically the number that when I did all the averaging and put the CPI on there, it was 167. And so what I the salary range is 10% below that and 10% above that. >> Of the three numbers you came up with, how
036close were they? So, um I didn't I I did this I did the uh I did the uh I did the um inflation analysis after but they weren't they were the so these are for two years previous so you can't compare them to that number there but um the 20 the 20 districts were 160 was the average salary of the 20 um the average of the conference was 162 and then the average of the ones close to was one was 150. So those are three numbers and but those were before inflation was added. So they were so 159 162 150. So they were not hugely apart. I mean the the and there's a couple outlier numbers in there too I think. >> What was Carl? I >> think he was right I think um I
037think he was right in the 150 wasn't >> I was going to say 140 something. >> No he was higher. I want to say I want to say like 155 is what I had. >> Sounds about right. I know that the average I came up with was right about where he was. >> Okay. >> I thought it was 16. >> I hit it right on. >> 162. Is that what you said? >> Yeah, I could just make it. >> I I don't think I don't think the next number was a six. I thought he was in the fives, but >> I think he was. Yeah, >> I I thought so. >> So, that that's where And the range doesn't marry you to a number. You know, you could hire somebody that's got zero experience or
038what. I mean, you never know quite all these things, but I think that number would give you would I think that that would give candidates a range that tells them where they would would be, and I think it would be appropriate. And I um I did two searches last year. One of them the board went way lower than what I suggested and one of them the board went way higher. So, um it just it really kind of depends on what what you want to do. Um, I mean it went way way higher the other one. But, um, I I think this money, >> you know, this gives you a high and a low range and it doesn't just I don't I think, you know, like with anything, it's always as a board, you know, you
039you got to take that, you know, you you're responsible for a lot of dollars and they're not your dollars. They're your taxpayer dollars and you got to be judicious with them. They're not it's not your money, it's theirs. Um, on the other hand, there's what things cost. And so >> and and this document the second one in the file would be available to people considering that applying. So they would have the >> that's the app that is the posting. Yep. That's what >> Well, that's the that does like like that that doesn't mean that's what we're paying. That means that's what we're posting saying this is a range. But but like you said, if you get somebody that applies that's never been a superintendent, >> you can use that as a bit of a negotiating
040tool to a degree. >> Well, they'll use this as a bit of a negotiating tool back at you probably, but which is fine. I mean, we're not saying competitive salary. We're saying, >> right, >> this is the range. That's okay. >> And I know when we had done this again pre I go I'm going off of the last time we had whatever our salary range was. Um, I think we had all kind of looked at it when it seems a little high. So, I think we had dropped it a little bit and um, I mean, I think we got a quality. I think we had two candidates. Well, we got Carl and I want to say their guy's name was Carl too. >> Kyle. >> And I know they were from a wage perspective, they
041were one was down here, one was up here as to what they were going to be asking. So, um, again, it gives >> I mean it's going to make somebody end up saying they're going to end up going through this work to apply or not, you know. >> Yeah. >> Which I mean eliminates work for us if someone thinks it's 200,000 that have patient money at every >> Yeah. it. I mean, when I looked at all these numbers, there was I mean, like the high and the low was I mean, the I think Prescott was the highest that I saw. Prescott and Cumberland were the two higher ones, and they were I think Prescott's over 200, and um um uh Cumberland's like 190, but other than that, I think the low was like 145, 146.
042Um, and then there was one district that, and I know the story, they were at 120, but so I mean those are kind of the outliers. >> Cumberland's superintendent knew. >> No, Barry's been there quite a while. >> Yeah. >> I'm curious to know if you can comment and I don't know if you know this information. >> So, you did like this competitive comparison between different schools on the for the soup level. Um, do you have any idea how does our district compare for either admin or teachers? I mean, are we kind of right right in the middle or are we on the low end or the high end or >> um your your teaching your teacher I know that your teacher salary starting is low. I mean, you're very low. >> Well, what about
043just average? >> But admin admin I I'm not sure. I don't I don't really I don't even know where your principal. I think we're relatively competitive on the ad. I think we're on the lower side, but I think, you know, if you take your, >> you know, here's where we're at. You take the 10 above and the 10 below, I think we would qualify as the 10 below, >> but not the bottom. Um, and I think from teacher salary, I think there's I mean little rabbit trail, but it's a our starting wage is is is I think probably the lowest in whether it's in CISA or whether it's in >> probably not the lowest in CISA, but lowest >> but but we're we're we're on the bottom end of that. The other thing that we
044have that other districts are doing that we're not is that they're uh years to top. I think what is superior 12 could be >> 12 or 13 years from starting to top salary and I think we're at about 18 or 20ish >> I'm not even sure where we might be at 20 21 >> 22 >> and it's that's always a tough one because >> my numbers are off >> you're damned if you do it's like if you keep it condensed you know that's then people can get to the top faster >> right >> if you but Then the people that are at the top complain that they can't ever get a raise, you know. So, >> so I think we're a combination of from that aspect, from a teacher aspect, which is why it's been
045an important goal for so long, is to get that bottom number up and then condense it. So, I think we've got I think we're 0 for two as far as the teacher wages go. >> Yeah. currently, but I think administratively we're we're probably pretty >> and I asked that question in the context of, you know, your proposed range here. I don't want to be the district that is on the way high end for our superintendent. Okay. Comparatively, but then on the teachers are on the low end. I don't want to be in that situation. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure we won't be there. >> That's that's what I ask. >> Good question. >> Yeah. And I and I think your I think your staff my experience is your staff wants you to hire a good
046superintendent. >> They they want and I and yeah gotta be you got to be mindful of the dollars but I think generally >> teachers are like you know pay them so we can have we'd rather you pay them and have a good one than than try to ball and I don't. So but it's but it but yeah I mean I to your point Vince I think you don't want to be in that spot. All right. Um I'm on number six there. Survey. Um one part of our process is that we do put a uh a community survey out. It's a virtual one. Um I'll probably have Jenny do this. Um we'll get it out to everybody a link and get it communitywide. And um I did provide a copy for that. Um it's you know
047it's it's pretty generic. You don't want you want to keep it you don't want to have it be too long or people won't fill it out. My experience has been people will fill this out and it'll it'll give them um you know a chance to provide input. Again, it's it is your decision and you're the one that's going to be d getting most of the information, but it does it does just give your entire community a part of the process. Um sorry, I have another question. Would this survey be kind of under the same uh uh mechanism or or or as this survey we did for the uh >> I'll just have you do a Google survey. >> No. Yeah, it'll be >> Yeah, scale back way easier, right? >> Yeah, that's what I was
048asking about. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's you'll have no problem with it. Yeah, we'll just give you the link and yeah, that's easy enough. >> So, it just be posting. >> Yeah. >> Usually, it's it's you know, most of the people that end up doing the survey are going to be your staff and parents and and you can break it down. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um All right. Um background checks. uh the that you know uh there's I try to emphasize to boards that there's a lot of uh there is a lot of potential liability with doing background checks and so that's kind of what you hire me to do and um it doesn't mean that you know if you know somebody that knows somebody you talk to them I I get it you're
049bored you want and and and there's a place that however there is liability and there is only there is certain things have to be done a certain way and with certain people and um and that's I I think that's there's a couple search firms where they um they don't do background checks because they say they have and then they have the board do all the background checks. Um I just you know last summer I we I spent a day with a couple other CC people in a lawyer in a law firm in in Green Bay just talking about superintendent search law all the laws around it and um there's just there's just a lot of liability. So it's just that's just a really bad idea to have you do all the all the all the
050u all the background checks. Um and so um we we that is that is a role that's retired for and that's what we will we will we will do that. >> Can you be more specific on how you perform the background checks? So what I do is I will ask them uh to provide us with four references which to me doesn't really mean a whole lot because I'm not really interested in talking to their pastor and the neighbor that they used to make apple pies with because that isn't going to give you a good sense of what they're what I really drill down into is finding who have been their supervisors going back at least 10 years. So, I will talk to every supervisor and and and I have to get them to do a
051um a sign off that says I can do that. But I that that is to me the starting point of every person. I'll also talk to, you know, if I know a superintendent that knows them, you know, maybe worked with them. I mean there's a lot of relationships that you know um working in the K12 world in Wisconsin for ones I have you know I kind of try to leverage all those including agency administrators and other CISAs and um and you know anybody that I can know connect with just to try to do all the background we can but the the core is every supervisor that they've had um you know in their career and and and people often don't put that and I will tell them I know you don't want you know I
052know you don't want everybody to know you're looking, but I'm I'm I'm going to have to call your superintendent. I'm going to have to call your board president. And so, at this point, you you're going to have to tell them. Um we have to do that. It can't be secret anymore. So, but that's that's kind of where I really um put, you know, start from and then go from there. >> And you do that for your final two before we make a selection. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. They get really dug. You know, some people I know and I've known my whole life and so that's easier and there could be somebody you know and have known for a long time. Um but but yeah, for sure them, but I'll I'll um I I will
053do background, you know, as much as I can if I have if I have no idea who somebody is. Um like I did a search last summer and we had I had a candidate from Alaska, a candidate from Minnesota, a candidate from uh where the heck was it? Idaho, and then one from Florida, I think. And I'm like, how do you background those? Well, they all had a Wisconsin connection. and you know, oh, they were in Alaska because they got fired from two jobs in Wisconsin. So, you know, that made it a little bit easier, but I didn't know that on the front end. So, um, all right. So, that's background checks. Um, interview questions, like I said, the first round of interview questions, I'll have a set for us, and I think you'll find
054them to be everything you kind of want know on the first round. If there's a question that hey I really want to get this answered asked by you know we we customize the final round a little bit more because that's going to be based on everything you heard on the first round but the first round you're interviewing eight candidates and so you know you want to kind of keep us in the same you want to compare apples to apples when you're interviewing them so that you know they're they're all answering the same questions in the same way and so um I I will I will have those ready for you and and then Um, last thing is before we have the finalist interviews, um, I believe the way we did this last time is we
055had a staff and community group, um, that interviewed with the candidates as well. And we I'm with you always. Um, we'll have a couple other CISA people facilitating that that discussion um, as well. So all of these are all this is this this staff and community group will be facilitated and it's facilitated around the idea that that group is is going to provide you feedback. They're not going to tell you who they want you to hire because and we'll make that very clear and we try to do that from the outset because um if if if we set that up and then they say, "Well, here's who we think you should hire." And you don't hire them, well then they're just mad. So that's really not the point. The point is we want we want
056their feedback on what was the strengths and what were the concerns of the candidates that they that they that they interviewed with and then we will you I I'll work with Jenny about getting that group together who's on it and we we'll probably you can look at some ideas there and maybe get some ideas for people. We'll we'll finalize that um um probably um next month. >> And when we had done that previously, I think we as a board had uh given some suggestions as to who we thought should be there from from some of that. So if you guys take this with you and maybe make some notes for yourself. Um so when we come to put that list together, we have everybody's two bit. doesn't mean everybody's going to win uh as to
057who they get, but it's it's something that we can all chew on. And >> yeah, I I I would say we could probably, you know, finalize that on on January on that January 5th meeting as well. >> And then that'll still give, you know, 3 weeks before that to notify people. Um I think that pretty much covers everything that I have. Um any remember last time I went through this, you know, I was a new like, "Oh man, this is going to be hard." But I remember you saying like through the process it becomes kind of more obvious who your candidate is. So that >> Yeah. >> Hope that happens again. It just >> and there was a lot of truth to that. >> Yeah. >> Well, I always like to say this is this
058whole process like watching NASCAR, you know, it's like it's it's as much about who crashes along the way as who wins at the end. So, you're going to watch a few people spin out and burn and okay, we gota it's down to two. Um, it might get hard at the end and it and it often is and that would be that's that's actually a great problem to have, right? When you've got two super strong candidates that you're really trying to >> um as long as you don't get mad and fight about it, usually we we can get consensus. >> Co- superintendent. >> I Nick, I appreciate the organization. I do have two questions. Um the first question is if Cody decides that, hey, this is something I want to pursue. I'm assuming he's going to
059have to go through the same application process, you know, during that time frame. >> Yeah, >> I've had that conversation with Cody if he so chooses it. This is the process we're going through because that's what we told the community we were going to do. >> Yeah. So, I just want to be clear on that. Yep. >> Yeah. And I and I talked to him about it, too. >> Yep. >> Um, and if Okay, let's leave it at that. Next question is, what if we go through this process and we don't have a candidate we're excited about? >> Great question. Um, we'll repost >> and start it again. >> And and and I and that's not the end of the world. Um, we've done that before and um I'm here to do that with you.
060And um there's you know every we've hired great candidates in February like this one you know this would be a February hire. Um we've hired great candidates in um in April and um we have we currently have two superintendents in our CISA that we actually hired in July. Uh so it does and you know as you get later you think okay well maybe this won't we let's just see. Um, but, uh, I think you don't want to settle because, oh, we we posted it. We went through the process and this, you know, we got to hire somebody now. >> Um, if if we're not happy, we repost and and and start over. >> So, in January, we would repost if we didn't have >> Well, it would actually be after the interview process, right? >>
061So, in February is when >> Yeah. And I would tell you too, if let's say we I mean I don't I don't think that would be possible because we're on this early, but let's say we get through this whole thing and it's like, you know, we go through it again and we still don't find somebody. It's like, well, we want an interim, we want to do it again next year. Um, that's part of your agreement with me is I will be with you to do all that. So, um, >> we're not here to nickel and dime you. We're here to get the best person. Yeah. >> Long term. Do you know what the um what's the average tenure of a superintendent right now? Do you know? >> Well, I mean, typically it's about four to
062five years. Um that's that's you know, that's about the average. Um when you look at it, there's 421 superintendents in the state. It's between 60 and 100 new ones every year. So, if you kind of do the math there, you kind of there's a range. Um it's, you know, it's it some people are crashing and burning after two years, some are there for 20 years. Um but I would say four to five is average. >> There's probably some districts that you threw to it. >> Well, and I don't know like some of these urban districts, it's like I I swear the superintendent's job is just to try to keep a majority of the board from firing them for as long as they can, and that's about all they do. But um I think our CIA
06312 districts, that's not the that's not the case. Um, so you know, I I I mean I I I hope that we can have somebody here for 10 years, you know, and that would be the that would be the that would be and I don't think that's unrealistic. >> Thought we did. >> Yeah, I did too. Um I think the one thing that I would just like to highlight is in the past prior to that January 5th meeting um I think we were provided with the resumes of everybody that applied and I would just urge you to again be confidential regarding the whole thing. You'll have it in email form. Go through it, make your notes of whatever it is so when we do have that meeting on the 5th we can um have those
064conversations. But don't share that without because it truly is important that those people get to retain their privacy until it gets to that final amount. So >> yeah. >> Does January 5th though work for everybody? >> That's a Monday, right? >> That's a Monday. That's the Monday before the board meeting. >> Sounds good. >> Which then the following week? >> It'd be before the board meeting. Oh, the Monday. >> The Monday before the board meeting. So it it would happen on the 5th. And then we're going to have a board meeting on the 12th >> and then we're here again the 13th and the 15th. So that's a busy week. Just >> that's Tuesday. >> Tuesday, Thursday. >> So, >> and I have flexibility. I can move. I did I did intentionally not go on
065the 12th because I knew we had a board meeting. So, but everything the other ones I mean I have flexibility. So, there's we have a conflict we can >> So, if there's something there, maybe take a peek at your schedule and and either reach out to >> Yeah. Just best practices. Can it be on that Monday? Can it be at 5:30 instead of Are we doing five? Are all these at five? >> We doesn't have to be. It's whatever time you want. I can >> Can you go at noon? >> Well, we did that with one district. Instead of two nights, we started about 1 in the afternoon and then just did it. >> I could do that. >> So, I mean, that's that is an option. >> Most people do that. >> Some of
066us >> the two is nice because it gives if if a candidate has a conflict, it gives them a little bit of flexibility. >> Exactly. on vacation. >> So, I guess take take a peek at your at your schedule. I don't need an answer right now, but we're going to have to come up with something here in the next, you know, two to four weeks, I would expect, so we can end up getting those uh situated. So, >> should should we when we're way out there put a date on were we going to need to narrow the list between the two rounds interviews or be >> You'll do that on the 15th. >> Oh, we'll do that on the 15th. Okay. >> Yep. So the the the 15th, >> wouldn't you keep those interviews to
067about an hour, I thought, didn't you? >> So So we're probably going to on the 13th be here for three or four hours and then the 15th is going to be probably longer than that because you're going to finish them off and then we're going to take that list and get it down to our finalists. So >> thanks Maya. So just so you know, the second of those two is going to be a longer meeting. None of these are short. Yeah, but it it won't it probably won't be that hard to get from that, you know, to get the finalist from that because if you if you have a >> if you if you can't get two and you want to go three, you know, you can. So >> hopefully two will emerge as >>
068sometimes just makes it sound too. >> Yeah. Can you at a high level just explain something to me when it comes to the lensure or the yeah what it says or near the completion of the certification part I don't have any idea how big of a a barrier or you know what that task looks like for somebody >> um it's been a while since I've done it but I my I know that we we hired one person we hired last year we hired somebody for this a new soup um had not started his lensure and um but when he got hired he has to enroll in a program and he he told me he should be completing it by the end of the year so he thinks he could do it any year >> okay
069>> um with and I and I said well >> tell the board you know you're going to have it done in two give because life happens you know don't >> you know you don't want to back yourself in but so I mean I think that's the scope of it you could probably you should be able to get it done in two years okay >> um if you haven't started it >> and Um and and and you can weigh that. You know, what is it, you know, sometimes it's if they don't have it done, it's not probably the big deal. They'll finish it up. Um if they, you know, if they've never started it, you know, you're like, well, are you really, how serious are you about doing this? You know, you haven't even started program
070you wanted to be. Um but that may not be an issue. Like I said, in the one we hired last year, person hadn't started the interview, but they were a good fit and they, you know, and they'll do a good job. Um, yeah, they just hadn't just Yeah, they but they actually had a business manager license and a recruitment license >> because I'm assuming there's probably going to be a number of candidates that do not have a soup experience and they've never been a superintendent. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think that that that's bad. I mean, I mean, I think you need administrative experience. You want to hire them in the classroom. >> Yeah. But um if you know if you're a if you're a high school principal for five or six years at
071a bigger high school, you know, I mean I think that that's that's some pretty good background and everybody's got to start somewhere. Everybody's got to have first job somehow. So, >> but there are a handful of administrative uh principles that are out there that have their superintendent license that just haven't been given an opportunity. No, there are. >> Yeah, there probably is. All right. All good. >> I think we're good. >> All right. I'll make a motion in a second to uh end this. >> I make a motion to second. >> And a second. All those in favor? >> Anybody opposed? >> Thank you very much. It's been written. >> I'm driving south >> tonight. Tonight you are. Well, I got a I got a hotel in Oaklair because my little ones I mean I
072was going to just leave in the morning, go down, watch the game, drive home, >> but my two littlest are not going to stay in the car that long. So, so I figured I could get down to Oaklair, let him hammer out a pool for a hour, hour and a half, sleep well, >> and then >> meander on down tomorrow. But I am coming home tomorrow night. I got to work Friday. So, >> yeah. >> Oh, you are? You're not going to stay overnight Friday night or Thursday night? do. I'm getting done and popping in the old four-wheel drive sleigh. >> Where was Dan tonight? He couldn't Did he have a conflict? >> Dan took off early today to get down. He was taking his grandkids down, I think. I don't know if he was