001All righty. Um, we will go ahead and call the meeting to order. So, Amy, if you want to go ahead and do roll call, please. Mr. Chavez, here. Mrs. Evansson here. Mrs. Heights here. Mr. Jones here. Miss Lima here. All righty. And then um do I have a motion to approve the agenda for today? Motion to approve. Motion to approve the agenda. Second. Might have a little lag there. Okay. So, uh Director Evson made a motion to approve and Director Lima second. Uh we'll go ahead and take the vote. Mr. Chavez, yes. Mrs. Evansson, yes. Mrs. Heights. Yes, Mr. Jones. Yes, Miss Lima. Yes. All right. So, um for our business meeting today, we have the fourth grade social studies curriculum adoption that was presented to us um just a few nights ago. So, uh,
002do I have a motion to approve the fourth grade TCM, um, social studies or curriculum? Motion to approve the TCM curriculum or to vote for the curriculum, I should say. Second. Okay. So, have a motion by Director Evansson and a second by Director Lima. Um, and now we can have discussion. So, I liked this one much more than the other. One of the first things that I noticed was that it has a bibliography, which I appreciated because then I knew where our sources were coming from if we needed to go back. [Music] It was felt like it was that was easy for students of that to take it in, for it to be discussed, for there to be, you know, neutral conversation taken on either side of it on just about every topic that this
003resource provided. So, I like this resource a lot. I appreciated the way that it was laid out and um the uh even some of the digital data that was available. Also, um there were also two resources that came in with this book that provided some tangible resources that were super helpful for students as well. I know that that's one thing that I found has been um easier when we're teaching our kids is to have tangible documents in front of them that they can touch and ask questions about and kind of dig into. So I appreciate those tangible resources as well. Right. Any other discussion board? Yes. Um okay. I preferred uh the first book, the first resource uh for a couple of reasons. One, I felt that it was more comprehensive than the second one.
004uh it had more of follow the state standards more than what the second one does. Uh and I think if we're going to develop knowledge for our students, we should provide them with the best resource that we possibly can. In my opinion, I felt uh the first one was a better resource than the second. So, if I can throw in um I think Jen and Jack Jackie are there. Um and it's my understanding that the second resource, the one that we're voting on now, um did meet state standards. I didn't say it didn't meet state standards. I just thought the first book met more of the state standards than the second one. I felt like they equally met state standards in my observation by going through the two resources. So the way that I I
005look at this is, you know, when when you're writing a researchbased based paper, there's a requirement that you have a bibliography and you cite your documents. And the photos in the first resource were cited, but there was no other data that was cited in that. I could not find where the where the the um the information was coming from and so it made it more opinion-based than anything else because it was not showing that that it was coming from other historical resources. Um so that was one of the things that I struggled with the most. Um had I been able to go back and been like, "Okay, this is the book they got this from. Let me take a look at that book. Let me take a look at this website." Things like that. then
006um maybe I would have been more in on the first one, but it was written as an opinion-based resource and so I struggled with that to where the second resource actually provided, you know, more of a citationbased, it had more citations so that I could go and look at the resources that the information was coming from if I needed to. Um, and it also wasn't written from a a one-sided perspective. It was written, the second one was written from an unbiased perspective, which was giving the information from from both sides, if you will, or it allowed for there to be conversation among students and teachers in order to teach students how to think, not what to think. And so that is why I like the second one um favorably over the first one. Barb, I
007would agree with with everything you just said about that. Um, that was one of my major points of contention as well, and I felt that this was a very balanced approach. Director Jones, I guess where I get frustrated is I I I understand everybody's perspective and I feel like I I mean I I I totally get it, but I guess where I get frustrated is the committee that we put together chose the first book I like overwhelmingly and those are teachers that are teaching these things to the kids and and doing the uh doing the work that we're supposed to be doing. And we're we're taking the word of a few of us that may not like something and I compare it to and I may be wrong and I apologize for this analogy, but
008I compare it to if I don't like the Texas Longhorns, the Denver Broncos, I go tell people that you can't watch football on Sunday or go to the game if they're playing the Broncos or the Texas Longhorns. I just feel like it's something that it's a part of history. The stuff that came out was history. Black Lives Matter, uh George Floyd, all that stuff was part of history. And I I feel like the the kids fourth grade I mean we learned about slaves in fourth grade. We learned about things that you know that happened. I believe that it's part of Colorado history that we need to know. And so I I I think that I I get upset, not upset, but I just get conflicted because I understand where everybody else's viewpoints come from. But
009I feel like we're missing important parts of history that were there for a reason. That's how Black Lives Matter got no matter how it got started. The fact is it got started and it was a part of our history. So I guess I get it. I don't disagree with you at all. Like I don't have a problem with teaching factualbased history. I have a problem with teaching opinion based history. So where I just find I just find it hard to believe that so many people in in the committee decided that I chose that book for for our students on opinion and not fact. I mean I I agree. I I understand wholeheartedly what you're saying Barbin. have nothing against your opinion, but I just I feel that the committee did its job in selecting that
010book for us all on this is what they thought what was best for our students and going forward and I suppose I disagree with that. I mean I agree that they did their job that there was a process that they followed the process that they chose several resources. This is the resource that came out on top. This is the resource that or I'm sorry the Colorado history resource the third edition was the one that was presented to us. um Colorado revised statute says that we are required um as elected board members to review that and to make a decision on it. And I'm going to stand by what I observed and it is our responsibility contrary to what some of the community members have said is that we just need to basically take a back
011seat and do what it's told that it is our responsibility to review it and to make a decision on it. And that's what I've done and I hear what you're saying as well. And so I guess that you know at this point um that resource is gone. This resource is upfront. So we either make a decision that we keep this resource or I mean the motion's been made that we make the decision as to whether or not we're going to vote yes or no to this resource. And this is our opportunity for discussion. But that second resource, the TCM, is the one that is on the table tonight. So, well, I get that, but we ask for we ask for a discussion and that's what we're having is a discussion. So, yeah, absolutely. I agree.
012I also I also think that when you look at that it's opinionated, I think we have quality teachers, if it's an opinion that comes up that they will be able to look at all sides and bring that up for discussions. I truly believe we have quality teachers and they will do that. I have I do not I have faith in them. I do not doubt them at all. And also when you talk about when you cite statute the also statute says that we have to provide and teach all history. All history not just short of part of it but all history. And the first one is more comp comprehensive than the second one in teaching the history. I I I just I beg to differ with that. I felt like the the first one had
013more information on it that was opinion based and it was not factual based. The second one has more factualbased data. And if the teacher wants to, you know, go whichever direction and teaching both sides of the story, then that's one thing. But, you know, to to give a resource that only teaches one thing, I don't know. I'm struggling with it. But I completely I I was not a fan of the first resource. I had some serious issues with it. Um I mean there were some things in there that I mean just even even for instance, you know, there were several different um words that were used in there and words mean things, right? So in half of the book the word indigenous was used and the other half of the book native was used. So,
014I mean, which which is it? Are we going to call the people that were historically being spoken of in the book native or indigenous? And there was no resources to where those came from. So, I mean, or colonizer or colonist. I mean, colonizer is a defamatory word that's used as someone that settles among other people to take political control over indigenous people. A colonist is a person that's used that settles or inhabits a colony. Um, for instance, someone that established a settlement in a new territory and it's used back and forth in the first resource, but in the second resource, you know, they stick with the same words and then there's expanded conversation that occurs off of those topics. So, I mean, the second book is just from what I was able to see, it
015has historical background. It has, you know, it has conversations that can be brought up. It is a good resource. Um, the first book could have been a could have been a good resource had it been a historical document and not an opinion-based resource. So, I'm not going to take I I homeschool and I'm not going to take an essay from my kids that doesn't have documents cited in it for me to, you know, look at later on down the road, I suppose. So, Oh, I'm sorry. Is there something going on that I'm missing here? And and and Barb, no, you're fine, Barb. I I I I I do hear you. But when you look at the the references that you gave, a colonist, somebody that colonized the United States that came in, they did come
016in and take over and did all these terrible things to people and it was because and part of it was a political reason that they wanted to do it. That's totally different. And when you're looking at that's somebody that's indigenous and native. When we look at that, we are indigenous to this land. So that means the Americas basically we are first in when we talk about native we are discussing what nation are we are from are we are we a nation of Apache uh ute southern youth whatever we are so that's what the differences is and I think sometimes uh people don't understand that so I would agree with you that they don't understand that and but I would hope that a teacher an educator would be able to explain that to the classroom And
017I understand that. I guess what my point is is that it uses the exact same terms within the exact same paragraph. So that's why I'm like, okay, I'm not sure. I mean, one one of the things that I struggle with in that book also is that, you know, it it immediately talks about, you know, who Columbus saw, who who's the first group that Columbus saw upon his arrival, and what did he write about them? And it in that book in the first resource it talks about Columbus coming and wanting to be a colonizer if you will. And if you look at the history of Christopher Columbus, one of the things he says about the uh the group of people that he first came in contact with is that there is no greater people that he
018has ever made contact with. And so I find it interesting that there were, you know, defamatory statements made about Christopher Columbus in the first resource. But when you actually look at history and when you look at other resources that could be cited, um, then it's a completely different aspect of what happened or it's a completely different, you know, which way did this go with Columbus. And so to just take a stance as the first resource did on Christopher Columbus, that's what I'm struggling with. So I do hear you. I hear you that, you know, we could have someone that could go could dive into it deeper, but there were no other resources provided for in that first resource for teachers to dive into it deeper. And so I would hope the teachers would on their
019own. Like when you talked about Christopher Columbus, you gave that one side, but you look at Christopher Columbus and the history of Christopher Columbus, what he did in Puerto Rico when he landed, he killed killed majority of all of the natives there in in Puerto Rico. So now there isn't in Puerto Rico, there isn't one person that can say I am a true native of Puerto Rico, of the indigenous people, of of the natives that were there. And that is the history of part of Columbus. Columbus did come as a colonizer. That's what he that's what he told when he was in Spain. That's what he that's what he came for. But we can argue at another time. You and I we can have a discussion regarding history, but this isn't the time to discuss
020that. Yeah. And and I and I completely disagree with how that went down, but and you know, like literally I probably need to give you this book, not stolen so you can take a look at it, too. But yeah, you're right. We can have a chat about that some other time. But I mean, I guess the question is right now, are we going to um continue to battle back and forth with the resources or because right now I believe that what we have on the table is to vote for the second resource. Um and depending on how that goes, I mean, we could be potentially looking at another resource, I suppose. So, am I mistaken on that, President Heights? No, you're correct. We have a a motion and a second on the floor for the
021resource that was recommended on Tuesday. And um yeah, and then I'll just I'll surmise. Um and then obviously just I want to make sure every board member has an opportunity to make sure that they've had a chance to speak. Um yeah, I don't think anybody is saying that we're trying to um you know, director Jones say that we're not um giving a chance to explain that certain parts of history have happened. Um my my consternation with the first resource is that I I believe there's certain pieces of history that are um need to be brought forth um at certain ages. And the way that this certain piece was brought about in the first resource um was not was not age appropriate in my opinion. And and just like I talked about on Tuesday, this is
022a team this is a collaborative team effort. The the the committee does their work and then they bring it to the board. And one of the board's main roles is to um not only, you know, look at curriculum, but it's to ultimately approve curriculum. And so that is one of our main roles. And so while while we take their recommendation, there is also a um there's also an expectation from you know our community for the board to take a look at the curriculum and through through all of our lenses and um and then make you know look at those and bring bring you know our concerns you know our feedback to that. And so, you know, I I felt that that part of the back of the book was a little bit weighty. I'm not
023I I feel kids should learn about that stuff. I feel the way it was presented was um very truncated and it wasn't um the full story. Um and I think that it needs to be a broader discussion at a later age because it's it's a pretty heavy process. I don't I think kids can learn about about slavery at those younger ages. I just think that that's a um a pretty weighted um uh topic that um I think parents need to be able to broach that topic. So anyways, that's again I've I've already explained that and I don't want to keep beating a dead horse on that topic. So um that's just again the first resource. The second resource I felt like again as I mentioned on Tuesday, there were some activism pieces that were brought
024up in it that I thought really actually mirrored the state of Colorado really well and I thought they approached it from a fourth grade level really well. And so I think those those match really well. So is there any other I want to make sure every board member has a chance to say what they need to say for discussion before we go to the vote. Okay, hearing no other discussion, we'll go ahead and take the vote. The vote is on the TCM um resource. So Amy will go ahead and go for the vote. Mr. Chavez, no. Mrs. Evansson, yes. Mrs. Heights, yes. Mr. Jones, yes. Miss Lima. Yes. Okay. So, the TCM resource will pass from 4 to 1. So, all right, Jen and Jackie, you guys have your resource to move forward with. So,
025thank you everybody for um the robust conversation. Love everybody's voices and thoughts on that. Barb and Jose Luis, it sounds like you guys will have a dynamic conversation coming up in the future. So, um, thank you everybody for your time. Um, do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. All right. Thank you everybody. And if you're traveling, safe travels. Good night.