001[Music] Come on. Are you all right with me? [Music] Heat. Heat. N. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] I'm [Music] a [Music] world. [Music] We're going to get started right on time. Uh, I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, July 29th, 2025 special workshop meeting of the Walkagan uh, School District 60 Board of Education. Can we have a roll call, please? >> Yes. >> Miss Lensing, >> Mr. McBride, >> Miss Ramirez, >> yes. >> Mr. Riddle, >> present. >> President Rodriguez, >> present. >> Okay, all board members are present. Um, item three, pledge of allegiance. Dr. Cesario, could I ask you to lead us the pledge of allegiance? >> Sure. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with
002liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you very much. Okay, time for public comment. If there's anybody here that would like to address the board. All right, the main reason I just want to explain main reason for this meeting. I think most of you know we are here for the purpose of um uh participating in a special workshop which is going to focus on the whole uh concept and process of superintendent evaluation. We're not here to evaluate the superintendent, but we are going to be discussing the process and the tools for evaluating a superintendent and also for goal setting, which is a first step because you can't evaluate unless you have goals that you can set and um and uh judge uh superintendent's performance based on. So, we're uh we're not going to have any
003close session uh portion tonight's meeting. It's all going to be an open session. We are not going to be discussing the superintendent's performance. We're strictly going to be going over the process and with the assistance of Dr. Mark Freriedman, we will be going over the concepts and getting some ideas and and actually I think he's got some examples of of some of the uh types of uh tools that some of the other districts use and he'll be able to share with us. But let me just tell you a little bit about Dr. Mark Freriedman for those of you who don't already know. Dr. Mark Freriedman is a former elementary school teacher, principal, assistant superintendent, and superintendent. He retired after 17 years as superintendent in Libertyville District 70. In his final year, he was named state
004of Illinois superintendent of the year and represented Illinois in the national competition for US Superintendent of the Year. After retirement, Dr. Dr. Freriedman took on the roles of in interim superintendent in Wanetka, Elkro village, Niles Township high schools, and Hawthorne school districts. In addition, Dr. Freriedman was a primary trainer for the Illinois Administrators Academy in Lake DuPage and North Cooko counties as well as the Chicago public schools. He provided training and administrative evaluation to over 10,000 principles, superintendents, and central office personnel in the Chicago area. He has also designed administrative evaluation plans for many districts in the area. In addition, Dr. Freeman served on the state commission charged with rewriting administrator evaluation standards and evaluation criteria. He is currently the president of BWP and Associates fourth largest administrator placement and consulting firm in the country.
005And as a side note, Dr. Freriedman was one of the individuals who assisted us in our search for superintendent. How many years ago was that? >> 10 11 years 10 years ago. >> 10 years ago. >> 11. >> Right. Been that long. And so what we're going to do, we're going to step down from here. We have a table set up and we're all going to sit around and u participate in the workshop. You can bring your your food with you. >> Board President, there's a question. Do we need to have a motion to start to open it? >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Yeah, we do. >> I make a motion that proceed with meeting and presented by >> second. >> Okay. Okay. A motion by Miss Hannah, second by Miss Lensing. Can we have
006a roll call vote? >> Miss Fabian? >> Yes. >> Miss Hannah? >> Yes. >> Miss Lensing? >> Yes. >> Mr. McBride? >> Yes. >> Mr. Ramirez? >> Yes. >> Mr. Riddle? >> Yes. >> President Rodriguez? >> Yes. Motion carries. >> We are now officially in over. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> We can step down to the table. You feel like you're in uh TV land. >> Jimmy Kimmel coming out soon or one of those I'm sure this will be when I drop my >> That's okay. >> Okay. do my best to talk and Oh, I can tell it's working. Everybody ready? >> Ready to go. Okay. So, what we're going to do tonight, a couple of things. We want to look at some of the research. basically how many of your colleagues and other
007districts are going about doing this evaluation process. The first part being what does the board expect of the superintendent and vice versa what does the superintendent expect of the board of education members and I think it's a real critical piece that kind everybody knows their roles you've gone through training you've had this schoolboard association training you've had go to workshops at the triple eye conference you go to different things but this is more personalized to you and this isn't going to be me talking to you and giving you all this information. I want to hear your reaction back on some of these things. And like you like I said, some may be a we know about this stuff. Yeah, this is a common practice. We're good at this. This is something we do. Others may
008jar you to thinking, hey, maybe we need to help ourselves be better in this area. And I I think everybody can improve and I've done this in so many places in so many districts and and some of the most high performing boards, they're always come back and say, I learned a lot and there were some things that we picked up that maybe we aren't doing the right way and and so we'll talk through some of these. I have if we have time and we are going to keep this to reasonable time frame. We said no longer than two hours so we can set our clocks and I admire you getting us started right on time and then um we have some scenarios that we may want to talk through if we have time. You know,
009typical things that might happen. How would we react to these things? So um any questions? Anything before we start? And we're going to go to the first page. It's up on the screen. You have it in your handout. defining board and superintendent roles. So if we look at the left hand side underneath board, we look at some areas that the board's main responsibilities fall under. Vision, mission, goals, and policies. It's not hiring. It's not evaluating principles. It's not evaluating teachers. It's setting the vision, the mission, setting goals, and setting and approving and setting policy. Most of the time, the policy piece comes through a third party, and it's the schoolboard association. They're sending you their press release with recommended policies. So, you work on those together as a group. You approve, add, modify. But in
010in days past, boards used to sit together and write the policies. You don't have to do that anymore. Very time consuming and something that frankly people always pushed off till the end. The end of the year, you wind up doing 15 hours worth of policy writing. We're in such better shape today. These policies are all legal. They're all verified. And therefore, it's a piece that the board has that's actually done for you. The end results are what, why, and how much? Those are the questions you asked. Yes. >> Yeah. I I I am okay. I am um uh wondering about when you talk about goals, it's kind of been kind of interesting >> about goals >> and excuse me. Now, the goals are under board. >> Mhm. Now, these goals, I'm going to say it
011how I say it or how I think of it. Our the board goals should be the framework of what the superintendent's objectives, action plans, regulations, and procedures should follow. Am I right? >> It's the district's goals, the board's goal. board slashdistrict's goals. >> And where do those boards I mean those goals come from? >> Collaborative goal setting. Collaboration between the board and the administration. The board members aren't supposed to pull these goals out of thin air. They just don't exist. You have certain items that are initiatives, certain mandated things that you have to do by law. Some of those are translated into goals. So that's a collaborative process between the two groups, between the board and the administration. I don't just say superintendent because it there are many people that play roles in that. >>
012Okay? >> And we'll get more into detail on that as we move along. >> Right. Can I ask a question? >> Yeah, sure. >> All right. >> I know you talked about press and and how the uh we don't have to draw up our own policies anymore that press kind of brings those out and I know our legal department does look at press but we don't see it usually. Do any of our board members here ever see the press recommendations for for new policies? When we >> we also see it when we go to our division meetings, they'll provide different examples or samples that you can institute in your district and when we go to conferences, they'll have some suggested policies to put in. Both cube and triple I do it. >> Right. Right. But
013on a regular basis, I'm not sure that we're getting those ones that are put out. I know we subscribe to press >> and I know some districts when I've gone to conference, they say we don't draft policies anymore. We just look at what press is recommending and then we revise it a little bit if we want and that's all we do. I'm just asking that question. >> It's pretty common >> because it seems like sometimes I've been part of committees which are looking at and designing our own policies and writing our own policies. Have you been part of that as well? >> And it just seems like it's a lot of work as you said. Yeah. >> So, I think we should look down the road here at >> involving press more and taking advantage
014of it instead of >> instead of looking at writing our own >> policies in in our committee. >> It'd be very easy. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Go ahead. >> Sorry because I'm eating, but I want to clarify that we're not writing our own. Sometimes they do have those examples and they're editing or they're looking at our old policies and revising. But generally when you're on those committees, they're not you're not starting from scratch. They'll have the framework and then you're editing through. >> So they must be getting it or they they might be getting it from there. >> Yeah. It's it's what committee because I've been on some policy committees, some accelerated Yeah. you know, educ committees, accelerated, uh, and we spent lots and lots of time looking at >> So, >> that's why
015you don't do it in a public meeting because >> people will be sleeping. Yeah. >> They do the research. Um, they also look at other districts. >> They also tend to look at other districts that are comparable to ours. So, again, like there is some structure. It's not coming from thin air. I haven't been on a committee that's like, "Okay, we got to figure this out word for word." But it would beg the question if we could get an update when that press release is out. >> Yes, >> They come out regularly regularly. >> Yeah, >> it's simple. When they come out, just pass them on. >> That's all. It's a simple little thing, but you have a committee who will then work to take those and then recommend to the whole board because you
016don't want to do that as a group. >> You don't have the time nor the interest. >> So easy to do. >> Our legal does do that. I mean, she will come forward with some policy revisions because the law has changed and stuff. So, I'm sure she's looking at press. Well, the good part about press is that it is legally verified most of those recommendations through their law department. So, I think it's a pretty solid thing. The key is you don't want to dip your toe in too many waters because it's just too much. >> Yeah, it's just too much. Well, my my my perspective uh of sitting on this board, the word edited, sometime when you have uh individuals sitting around the table and there's a policy, for example, let's just say a dress
017code. >> Mhm. >> Everybody got a thousand different opinions on that and you just go round and round and round. But when you have a u as you were saying, the press automatic set >> recommendation. Yeah. >> And I think it's easier that way. But it it always happens that uh you individuals have their own opinions on how they should see it. So sometime we could go over and over and spend a long time on a policy. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um I just want to caution us as a board not to just do things because it's easy, but thinking about our community and how it impacts our students because what some people may feel using the dress code example is appropriate for their community may not align with our ideals and our values and
018what we want for our kids and ours. So, I just want to put that cautionary comment in there. >> Right. >> When major issues are up for discussion, then you don't take the short route. You you you nail that. But many of the revisions that the press does are minor. The law is tweaked, a date is tweaked, the law changes from and it ends in in 2005. Well, we're going to extend it to 2010. So, you make that change. So many of them are those type things. So you don't have to spend valuable board time on those kind of things. But it's very easy to send the press out. I used to do that. My board would send it back and said we're good. You know, we don't need to see all of them. It
019just depends if you want to do that. Easy to do. >> Okay. Anything else? >> And we may have to sign up with them. >> I believe you probably are. >> Yeah. >> As part of your automatically you mean? >> Yeah. As part of your membership with the schoolboard association, you should be re you know press is a separate entity but you I'm sure you're getting that. We are >> yeah. >> So the superintendent role on the right hand side the superintendent the role of putting together the objectives the action plans. How are we going to get these things done? Following regulations, making sure things are done by law, and setting procedures. Most important is to have procedures for things. >> If you don't have an organization with procedures to do things, you have chaos.
020>> And so that's critical and that's the superintendent's responsibility. and her team to follow and set those procedures. So you're not dealing with it every board meeting. >> Policy sets procedure. >> Yes. Exactly. So how, when, where, and by whom? That's the superintendent's determination. >> How are we going to do it? When, where, or what do we need? And who's going to do what? And that's that gets into the delegation piece that the superintendent has with staff and staff responsibilities. And then the superintendent does recommend action to the board. These recommendations are critical. The key at the bottom trust and communication governs all have. We have to have a high level of trust and a high threshold for communication. It's important that that be done. Just like you were saying, Rick, with wanting to see
021what press is like and maybe after seeing two of them, you'll say, "Hey, don't send me that anymore." You know, but that's okay. You know, it's okay to see that. Any other questions or comments there? We're at our next slide. So, what should the superintendent expect from a board member? A lot of these things maybe are common sense. You know about them, but it doesn't hurt to refresh and some may be new. So this is again based on some research that we've done in putting together uh workshops with boards for this very same purpose. So one the superintendent should expect from board members to represent and serve the entire district and all its students even if elected by a special interest group. There are many districts where polit politization takes place and groups are run
022by organizations for seats on boards >> and that's not what it's intended for. These are all supposed to be nonpartisan and that's the case in a lot of lot of areas. So the entire district all students and if elected by a special interest you have to put that aside and look look out for the interests of every every child every person in the district. Second item is to adhere to the highest ethical standards. Everybody has a little bit different definition of what that is. Some of it is just common sense politeness, some understanding the role and responsibilities of superintendent and boards, but ethics are critical. Remember, your community is watching. I heard there's like 850 subscribers to your board meetings. So, people are watching and what you do and how you act is really important.
023It gives a sense of what the board is like. know how to compromise and abide by the majority of the will of the board. Very few boards are 70 on everything. You have a right to have your own opinion to vote in your own conscience. And it's fine to take a vote and cast a nay. It doesn't have to get explained. You could feel an obligation to do that, but it doesn't have to. Compromise and abiding by the will of the majority will show a cohesive board. Again, not having to be 70 on everything. very little of that takes place in in in communities. But on certain items, it's fine to have a 70 vote. It's fine to back the recommendation of the administration. It's important that the superintendent expect from the board to know
024the difference between board and administrative responsibilities. The area that sometimes boards get into that are administrative in nature are evaluative opinions about administrators or teachers. Say you live next door to somebody who's having trouble with their child's teacher and you're getting it in the air many times day and night. You have to be able to resist being as a board member and using that seat on the board to take your neighbors cause up sometimes really hard to do. I mean it's like and that's just a simple example. Some of it gets deeper, but these are really critical pieces because if people are jumping in all the time, then the administration will never know when they're comfortable making decisions. >> Yes. >> That's that's that's not with your neighbor. That's also the community as well. >>
025Yes. Yes. I just picked the neighbor as an excuse because I know it's the communities. Most communities have something like that. It's all about us, not me. It's us. You have you have a well functioning board. It's us. And that's something to keep in mind as you go through and work through recommendations. Next slide, please. Couple more things that the superintendent should expect to be prepared for board meetings and informed about community and education related issues. That's critical. We know sometimes things happen in life and and you don't uh have a chance to have as much preparation as you would like for a board meeting, but for the most part, try your best. I know community related issues, if something happens, it's important that you pass that along to the superintendent, the administration, so they're
026not caught uh flatfooted. Here's the real key and I want to give you an example something that's going on right now. You may have re really seen it in the newspaper. Number one, to respect confidentiality. Have any of you read about what's happening in Neapville right now? It's really bad. Um, a school board member took it upon herself to go to a committee meeting made up of community volunteers, a finance committee that meets twice a year. She tape recorded that meeting. First of all, she wasn't invited. >> Second, she tape recorded the meeting and did not get permission >> from the other people. So these community members who volunteered uh were upset. Everyone was upset. Uh the superintendent uh approached her and told her that she was wrong and she argued with him and so
027they called the police. >> Violated violated privacy act. >> Very clear state privacy. You can't just record somebody in life. >> Yes. And that's It's in the state's attorney's office. This is all going on like right now, this week. >> With that being said, is there an issue in our board, our public board meetings when there are individuals recordings? How do we handle that? >> It's a Yeah, this is a public meeting. >> That wasn't >> That was It was Yeah. And there wasn't a quorum of board members. And so, >> thank you for that, Claire. >> These were individual community members who have every right to privacy. >> Yeah, this is going to blow up. What's going to happen is there's going to be a press coming out soon regulating these kinds of things.
028Give it a month or two down the road. But this is this is working now in a big district like Neapville, and it's kind of torn everybody apart. >> Wow. It's caused people to take sides and this board member is already been censored by their co her colleagues and these are the kinds of things that cast a negative look on the whole board the whole community. The actions of one make you all look bad >> and that's why it's so important for the respecting confidentiality and respecting each other. >> Can can I get clarification now that was a committee meeting and I thought those were open or was it not a committee meeting it was a finance m meeting of the school district >> an advisory board? >> Yeah it wasn't a school district committee
029meeting district >> at all. It was organized by the school district, >> but it was a finance meeting >> of the >> this is a a group that meets twice a year to advise the board on budgetary issues >> and they're talking about like everyone else, what do we do if our funding levels are cut, >> right? >> And this was the beginning of the discussion. She recorded that and people say, "What's going on here? We're just here starting to talk about this. We don't want to be every comment to be attributed to us, >> right?" >> And so, um, there is a law, it's not the Open Meetings Act, there is a law, a state law that doesn't allow for >> Yeah, exactly. So this is this is something that probably has happened in
030other places, but all it takes is one to blow up and it's going to have an impact on everybody. >> So what does it say? It also says that board member has no consideration for her colleagues. >> There's more more to it. We'll be reading more about it. It's almost like a soap opera. I'm watching each day what's the next what's the next thing to unfold. Don't let any personal bias influence any decision. That's just kind of a common sense thing. Realize you can't please everyone. That's the hardest part of sitting on a board of education. There are things sometimes that you just can't agree to. You can't please everyone. There are there are issues that prevent that from happening. You also need to be careful not to give the impression that you speak for
031the entire board. There is one spokesperson, the board president and in lie of the board president. Sometimes the vice president is named as spokesperson but everyone can't speak on behalf of the board. Really important. Ask questions but don't embarrass anyone. This is common sense. This is treat each other. Treat each other how you would like to be treated. And then finally, support the district administration. You know, you don't have to have blind loyalty. The last page on this area is to support board administrative decisions. If it's been approved, let's support it. If there are issues along the way, meet with the superintendent or the administrative staff and talk about those, walk those through. No surprises with your board members. No surprises to administrators. I've seen board meetings where a board member calls out an administrator
032in the audience, tell us all about that. and the person's like totally unprepared, unexpected. So, we try to not do things like that. Sometimes you may need clarification from an administrator who participates by sitting in the audience. Understand and support the chain of command. It's critical to run a good organization. As a Bormer, don't go around the superintendent. It's really important to ask appropriate questions, evaluate the answers, and vote your conscience. That's why I say it doesn't have to be 70 on everything. Vote your conscience. Have open and honest two-way communication. So, keep that that communication open between the superintendent and you as board members. It's really critical. Can I say something? >> Go ahead. >> You were saying uh don't surprise the administrators when you're sitting behind there, but it's a lot of times
033where there's information comes to the board sometime need to be questioned and it's not really calling them out. But I just think that um to get some clarity to uh actually make a real good decision, you need to, you know, get an answer back from the administrator before you make that decision. And you know, I think that happens a lot. I mean, I'm not I don't do a lot of speaking, but I in other individuals I sit back and they they ask legitimate questions, you know. So, I not I think that's just uh anyway uh a lot of times it's not I don't think it surprises that I think they have a right to answer those questions before they make a decision. >> Mhm. >> Thank you. >> And it's how you ask. >> Caroline,
034>> I 100% agree. However, I think it also speaks to previously coming prepared. We get documents ahead of time. We get the presentations ahead of time. We should also be going through everything so that if we have a question, we can ask it before the meeting so then we can have that answer because a lot of times we are asking those questions up here. It's making our meetings go longer. Um, but also some of these things we're asking for specific data number that may not be easily accessed in that moment. So for me it's also speaks to us and how prepared we come so that we can ask those questions and they can come with those answers and sometimes things do pop up right where you have to ask but I think the more that
035we can come prepared have those questions already out there emailed and answered back it helps us all around. Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. Go ahead. >> Um, as long as I've sat on the board, one of the first things through my years through uh learning from other board members from the very beginning, you ask questions. That's what that's what you do. You ask questions. and the um as far as the materials that we get um beforehand, I'm sure everybody's looking at them, but I'm also sure that information provokes questions. And so just because you have questions that does not mean that you are unprepared coming into the meeting. It just means that >> Mhm. >> the the information that you have read has provoked other questions. And so it it's good to ask questions. We we we
036were we were I mean I was taught through years. Ask questions. You may not make a statement, but ask the question. >> Exactly. Sometimes you can ask those questions prior to the meeting and go to the source of the information and get those questions answered if it's really bugging you. >> It's as long as you have the information that you need when you cast your vote. That's the critical piece. >> Absolutely. So everybody's right on that. I would ask I would ask Superintendent Placentia if is there another item under what you would expect from board members that we haven't gone over here before we move into the next category? Anything on your mind? >> I really don't think um there's anything that I would add. Um I do know that we worked with IASB ISB
037um and just setting up like how do you want the information you know organized what is your expectation and we are working through that. So when I have that guidance, once I know what the target is, then we can hit the target. My ask as the superintendent would be that we all formalize what that target is for the year. And if it shifts, I understand that sometimes it does need to shift that you give the administration time to make that shift so that we can get you the information. But as long as I have clarity around the ask and the expectation, then we can deliver. Mhm. >> And I should say I can deliver. >> Yeah. And the team the team can deliver. >> Um I'm going to hopefully not speak for you too much,
038but I think another feedback piece was that we don't have to have the exact same expectations but not have seven different targets for you to be hitting. having some sort of general umbrella of we we want and then of course we can have our very different specifics but the general umbrella should remain consistent so that you're not trying to please everyone as it was referenced prior. >> Yeah, >> you cannot please everyone >> that we know. Let's let's move on to the next section. What should the board expect from the superintendent? And let's go through these things and see if there's some other things that maybe you, the district 60 board, would say they need to add to the list. And that would be helpful for your superintendent to know. That's the best part. No
039surprises. Again, the worst thing that happen at any meetings are these surprises. So encourage the growth in innovation and tolerate an appropriate amount of reduced expectations or even failure. It's the price of excellence. Sometimes things don't work as planned. We can't be afraid to acknowledge that. I think people look at you in a better light when you say, you know, we tried this. We tried hard. We put these resources in. It didn't work the way we expected it. You will get a nod of approval. Miss Hannah, you're nodding already. And because people like when others admit things didn't work out rather than make flimsy excuses, try and bluff their way out of it. This is this is a critical piece. A lot of superintendents are afraid to admit things. Just happens that way. Um, I'm
040going to jump in on this one just because I I think exactly as you said, if you tell me what it is, then we can work on the solution. But if you're trying to hide things, then I have to figure out what's the truth. And then the accountability piece, I think, is the the most important thing. And even as a board, we've seen that more at the podium where we tried implementing this program, it wasn't done with fidelity. We're going to buckle that down on that this year. Okay, great. then let's give it another go because the data is not showing. But you're explaining to me why. I think the the thing that we need to get to on a board is what is an appropriate amount of reduced expectations? What's the duration of that
041before we start to say this has to to take a turn because it's no longer tolerated. >> Yeah. Can you can you sir >> define that please >> define the phrase appropriate amount of reduced expectation? >> Some things you just don't go they go off the rail. Some things hit a dead end. The expectations might be different. Some things may be the expectation is that um we build a second story on this school next year. Okay, the studies are in, architects are telling us can't be done. The roof and the floor can't those kind of things and we've committed all these things. Okay, we have to stop. We have to come back and say we had the greatest expectations. However, when all the pieces of the puzzle were put together, it appears that we aren't
042going to be able to do that. Why? >> Even though there's expenditure, there's initial expenditure and there are things that we have promised in the end it's not going to be of it's not going to be worth it. It's not going to be valid. >> So is that what all in all all aspects? >> No, not all aspects. But there are things sometimes we're over anxious in setting our goals. they may be reaching because we think we can do that. And then midpoint we're realizing we're running into some issues. Nothing wrong with saying our expectations were set at this level. It looks like we're going to come in at a lower level and in a lot of different things. It could be, you know, how many kids graduate from high school. It could who knows?
043But there has to be things that somebody can't worry every time you set a goal that if I don't exceed it, my job's on the line. >> I think the key piece around those instances is prior communication, right? And it goes to the the good two-way communication. We as a board shouldn't be surprised when we hit the deadline and it's not going to work. There should be monitoring steps and conversations that lead up to it. so that they're we're aware we're on target, we're on target, we're off target. >> Yeah, there's a lot of unknown coming up for this year. The funding piece, as mentioned earlier, it's an unknown not only for district 60, but it's an unknown all across the state. >> Yeah. And >> we we don't know when we're really going to
044get it set straight, if it's going to get set straight. >> Yeah. And and so you do you stop setting goals and anticipate doing things that require a certain amount of resources? Do you put everything on hold or do you go go forward with it and see, hey, we're going to move forward as best we can and try and find all the resources we can. If you run out of those resources, then you know you you play the game a little bit differently. But th this is this is going to be a very hard year to set concrete goals >> because so many things are dependent upon this funding level. I heard some fairly good stuff today that um some funding is being released in some areas. I think there's pressure on all sides politically
045and that may help, but will it be where the expectation was? Probably not. That would be overly optimistic. The the room for failure has to be part of every evaluation, everybody's work, because no one's perfect. And I hate to use that word failure. Maybe not meeting full expectations is better is a better way to say it. >> Yeah. >> Uh the question I have uh we solely look towards the superintendent, administrators, what is what is the B board's role with trying to get us across the finish line in terms of uh this this area we're speaking about with academics? What is our role in that? I mean, as far as uh what part do we play? Because we we we we uh we often set back and with expectations looking for it to happen, but
046what roles do we play in terms of making it happen? >> That would be in your goal setting. And again, the action plan is the administrations. So it's the board can be the cheerleader. The accountability factor, >> the financer, >> financer, the accountability factor comes from the board >> and you're holding the administration accountable on behalf of the community. So that's a common practice. However, is it the board's responsibility to say the to the administration, I don't like what books those kids are reading in second grade. I don't like, you know, what high school kids are getting at at at ninth grade. That no, that's the administration's responsibility. Um, I think one thing that from my perspective we struggle as a board is what does holding the superintendable the superintendent accountable look like? So when
047you say you hold them accountable, what does that look like in practice? Mhm. That's reviewing the superintendent's goals >> that you jointly set >> and getting reports from the superintendent. >> There's a mid generally a midyear report. I don't know how you do, but I do midyear update, quarterly update, whatever it is. Hey, here's where we're at. >> This is what we're doing. >> Go ahead. >> So, I'm going to jump in here. um and only because we have a few new board members. So, previously um we would do like a mid-year review on the golds. I don't know if Mr. Riddle um Mr. Rodriguez, you were on the board at that time, Miss Hannah, we do MOI. Um it it would get pushed back at sometimes for other initiatives. So then what we started
048to do was to bring updates or whether it's information during student achievement time to update on different parts of the goals if there's four goals just to update where we are at that point instead of a whole MOI review. >> Personally I would prefer an MOI review with the board. It would it I to me I think it would bring more calibration to the evaluation process and it would allow the board to know but also myself what you're all thinking where I'm at what you're not seeing where I could provide more clarity what maybe I'm not doing that I need to cover so I personally would be in favor of a MOY review where we just go close you know and just have this look I mean we would still give presentation ations during student
049achievement so the public can know hypothetically like the wraparound center where we are with that >> but I would definitely be open and actually lean into having that midyear review >> it's not uncommon many districts do called state of the district midyear review midyear update it's it kind of keeps the topic on the agenda rather than oh we did that six months ago. I can't remember what what we talked about. So, it's not a line very common and it's something again that builds the continuity of what those goals are and you can kind of say, hey, we're moving along, making good progress. Here we got hit between the eyes with the funding cuts and we had to suspense some of the things we're doing and things aren't going according to plan. That's where maybe even
050failure is admitted. Failure doesn't mean you're not doing your job. >> It just means that things have happened. >> Go ahead. >> Well, I think that uh we don't celebrate enough because we are doing good far as I'm concerned. Uh >> also to you know, we have a gentleman by the name of Dr. Brown that comes in and do our presentations that he kind of lets me know where we at academically. And uh I just also too I think we don't do enough celebration because we are we are a district and I my perspective I I hear more minuses than I do pluses. >> I do hear that more minuses than I do pluses. I just wanted to say that but I again uh there's a gentleman by the name Dr. M. He keep when
051I do he do when he does his presentations I kind of know where we at academically. Well, it's interesting and uh I've been in Lake County a long time and I keep track and watch what the school districts do and how they're represented in the media and and Teresa has heard me many times saying the difference in the perception of Wagan District 60 and maybe since the pandemic I would say and pre just in the press coverage in the positive news is maybe 150% better. It's positive. There's no I don't see any negativity. It's celebratory and I agree with you. If you can factor in more celebratory opportunities, I know you bring staff and students to meetings and honor them. Those are the good parts. Those are the good parts. But the perspective that people
052have about District 60 is so different today than it was 10 years ago, five years ago. And it takes time to get there because you had to dig out of a big hole. And it's come a long way. Now the momentum is moving in such a good direction. want to keep that going and celebratory opportunities are absolutely appropriate and fit in here probably should be an item on on the list but it's it's all good and staff members who are recognized things like that we sometimes forget that the person who's in his or her fourth grade classroom does a great job good good feedback from parents parents, the principles saying great things. They come, they do their work, they go home at the end of the day, but they really don't get other recognition than
053maybe at Christmas gifts from some of their students, whatever. But those other things to recognize good people are important. And I think your labor piece in this district is another story. and the fact that you are at that point where things have really moved along nicely as an outsider. I see it. You probably don't see it as much. >> I I would mention I had numerous comments about the uh flyer that went around or the what you want to call it, the just uh that the district just did, the pamphlet that went around and all of the positive things that have been happening in district 60. Um, people were telling me, "Wow, I got this fire about walk and just a lot of stuff that you guys are doing. I mean, people being teachers being
054recognized, the kids doing this, our music program doing this, just a lot of stuff that was in there and it it was good. I thought for the people, especially the people that don't have kids even, >> right, >> in our district to see that that went home to everybody and I thought that was terrific. I mean, it was just wonderfully done. It had I don't know who all designed it. I mean our our department that does media does a fabulous job. They have been doing a wonderful job on our district and bringing trying to highlight some of this and I think the board itself has been trying to but I think we have to even highlight it more at every board meeting some of the good stuff that's happening because our kids have just they're
055doing great things and then at the end of the year when I and I know some of our board members were going to events as well at the end of the year so many positive things. Oh my gosh, some of the presentations that were made um by the schools at the at the end of the year, uh work that the kids are doing, parents coming and feeling good about their child and saying, "Wow, absolutely." >> Proud of little Jimmy here or Johnny and what they're doing and these kids up in front making presentations um like uh at the um well anyway, several of them. >> Yeah. The Ivy school. The fact that we have the first IV school, it's a big thing. >> Exactly. There's a lot of firsts. >> Yes. A lot of firsts.
056>> And those are things that you all should celebrate together. >> Yes. >> You're elected to represent the community. When good things happen, >> take them. >> When bad things happen, admit them. >> Even Even our graduation wonderful. It got rained on, but I didn't hear any negative comments because the sun came out at the end. People are still taking pictures. It was just wonderful. The event. Yeah. We just carried on during the rain. I've done one of those outdoor graduations in the rain. >> I didn't hear any negative comments. >> Positive. >> I didn't hear anybody saying, "Oh, we should have held this inside." What was it? There was none of that. People were >> But that's the culture you're creating. And it doesn't happen overnight. One of the factors, stability and leadership is
057a key factor to building that. And I I didn't realize it. It's been 10 years. But the key people understanding and knowing how leadership works very important and a lot of stability in in secondary leadership too. >> All good stuff. >> You know, can I say something real quick? >> Yes. You know, I've been uh promoting that um us presenting the dialogue, us writing the dialogue because too many times we let ourselves be influenced by the the negativity, the people that have the negative things to say about us in our district. And sometimes we tend to tend to start believing them. And we I found out that the one the ones who speak out are the ones that are going to write the narrative. Mhm. >> Okay. Whatever the story of District 60 is, we're
058either going to let the negative people write the narrative or we're going to write it. And this is why we have to be the positive spokespeople for the district. And and and I I see so many good things happening. This is why when I speak during my time at the meetings, I always try to promote something positive, like bringing in that article about the greenhouse the other day. >> I just see so many positive things. And why let an opportunity like that get away? because you're going to hear the negativity out in the community and uh the more positivity that's spread, the less people are going to pay attention to negativity. So, I I just see this happening. I think this whole board had I think we're all good spokespeople for the uh for the
059school district. And Mr. McBride, I'm glad you brought up that topic because it is important. We we need to be the ones to write the narrative because if we don't, somebody else will. Well, I heard that at a conference, another another board member uh said that you're going to always get negativity, but always try to beat it out with a plus because you're going to continue to get it. So, I think like you said, the more we spread positivity, the less we can suppress the negative stuff that's going to come because it's going to come. >> Mhm. No, you're right. >> I think the thing with that is that during our board member time, we're all spreading the positivity. We're all talking about the different school events that we're going to, the different interactions that
060we're having. my concern with letting people run with the negative narrative. If we don't look to build bridges and look to resolve those concerns, they're going to keep coming to that podium and keep repeating the same negativity. So, I think it's a balancing act. Yes, let's focus and push out the great things that we're doing, but also look to find resolution quickly so that it's not the same issue coming over and over and over and over. It It's a waste of their time. It's a waste of our time, and it just breeds frustration. Yeah, you're right about that. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. No one benefits from the same thing over and over, >> right? >> Yeah. As a matter of fact, it's it's a major turnoff. It sends a negative cast a negative over the
061board meeting. >> Yeah. >> Good. So, couple more things. What should the board expect from the superintendent to evaluate the superintendent in an objective standards and performance-based manner? There are a set of standards for superintendent and to offer here's the key constructive suggestions. If you have a constructive suggestion or something that's bugging, don't carry it on your back for a year, share that with your superintendent. Let her know. She can't read minds. But if it comes out at meetings or it looks like negativity that can be read by everybody. So it's important to keep it's again that two-way communication and I think you're all pretty comfortable with your conversations with your leadership. You should be and you feel that you have to say something to her. something's bothering you, say it. >> Not an open
062meeting, a private conversation, a phone call, those type things. No surprises, no embarrassments. And finally, on that first page, uh, good two-way communication. Again, we've said this over and over again, has to be two-way communication. A couple more things that the board should expect from the superintendent to be the primary motivator and resource in policy development and to execute board policy in an effective manner. So you know those policies that come out of press ultimately they land on the superintendent's desk and the superintendent has to ensure that the district is following that policy. So there's a lot of followup there. Next would be to adhere to the high Go ahead. Okay. >> Um and I'm just going to uh put a um question out there that's um been a worry me um issue for me
063ever since we kind of did it. Right. And um and then hearing um and even sometime visually seeing um the inappropriateness of the um what what is it? The appearance policy. >> We change it. >> Dress code. >> We change >> dress code. >> No students >> dress code. >> Dress. So is it's it's the dress code, not the appearance. >> The exact it's the dress code policy, but if you say that, that's what everybody know the exact term on the policy. I I can't I do believe it's called the dark skull >> policy. Well, anyway, um anyway, >> we have a policy >> that governs the students expected dress code, >> right? Mhm. >> And um from what I am seeing, what I am hearing, what uh what people say to me that even
064um even uh staff at uh particularly the high schools. Okay. Mhm. >> Um and unfortunately it's starting to trickle down into the middle school where the um the dress policy and I I thought it was they changed it to the appearance or something, but anyway, same difference that the staff gets in trouble for trying to enforce force the policy with the students and the the the dress on a daily basis is inappropriate. I see you shaking your head because you know and um and how do we do that? How do we deal with that? Jeff, help me. >> Can I change? >> Well, when Miss Hannah's talking about >> did >> Miss Hannah, we all adults sitting at this table and we all have morals. >> I'm a man >> and uh I see young
065ladies when I walk into that cl in that building. I have to turn my head because it's things I shouldn't be seeing. And that's boring. It shouldn't be >> Yeah. >> that that happening. >> But the question is some time back I think we talked about a dress code. We want to go uniform. We had a problem about that. So yeah, >> that didn't happen. But still, if we didn't go uniform, that still should be appropriate way >> to dress. I'm saying that >> I'm I'm I'm saying that uh when I walk into the building, I shouldn't have to be able to look at a young lady's cleavage. I shouldn't have to be able to do that. >> And it got to the point to where is now it got to you can wear pajamas
066to school. You got to the point you you can do all kind of stuff. But but but I don't blame that on the students. I blame it on the people sitting ready on this board and they they know that it's inappropriate and we're adults and we understand what morals is and there way in the world we should be letting that happen. >> So can I give I just want to give some background and I'm I'm going to turn it over. Um, so I think this goes back to where we talked about people coming together to develop policy. And so this policy was looked at through the PTAC who helps write you know some of our student handbook. Yes. >> And there was a survey done and there was a big initiative throughout our district where
067students were surveyed. I believe parents were surveyed um a big discussion around this and then they came up with a policy which they proposed to the board. Um, and so I say that to say when we were talking about people coming in to discuss policy, we here in district 60 and I would say this is a board's ask is to involve our stakeholders, our students, our parents. I mean, and the board takes in into consideration what they believe or want to see. Of course, the ultimate decision lies with the board. So, I say that to say that if the board ever wanted to revisit this policy, that's definitely a board function that we could bring back, but I just wanted to give context on how we got here. And >> can you tell what the
068policy is currently because I don't think staff wait. >> So, I think you need to give context of what this the policy is currently because we changed it. um because we wanted to ensure that we were more equity based where as long as they're covering from here to here where it used to be um a little bit more of a you know you can't have anything sleeveless you can't have two more than two inches above knee it was stricter so I don't think it's an issue of the staff is enforcing the policy maybe they're enforcing the old policy cuz our new policy actually allows for children to come with sleeveless and show their belly button if they want to like that is the policy and the board voted for that. Okay. But again the board
069voted for that and so I don't again going back to this if we have to make sure that we also understand what the policy is because we can't say staff is um being penalized for um trying to have kids adhere to the policy. They're being probably penalized or being talked to because they're following the old policy and not the new policy. Okay. So, I don't want to derail tonight around this policy. However, I do want to say that we talk about morals and values. Clothing is not morals and values. That's based in Puritan culture. That is not our business to say you should be dressing a certain way. I can see your cleavage. It is sexualizing children and we shouldn't be doing it. But again, this is a conversation that we need to have to
070the superintendent's point. If the board wants to revisit, we can have those conversations. But I urge you to come educated. Yeah. >> And I look I I heard both of my colleagues. Okay. However, Okay. Yeah. You you the and I can tell you that staff is getting disciplined not because they are not because they are um enforcing an old policy. It's because they're trying to enforce the policy that's on the books, the revised policy. And the same thing that that revised policy says is the same thing basically that the original policy said, except okay, I guess I don't know, you they're now talking about body shaming and all that stuff. But actually, it >> cover this and cover that. >> Actually, it's it it's we're we're training we're training young people to go into a
071workforce. that is that that approp that dress style is not appropriate in many um organizations and agencies and places of employment. And so you would be surprised at the um at reports that I receive where young people are going into an interview >> and they are dressed like they're going to a beach. That that that's what what we're doing is not helping >> a life skill. >> Yeah. we're not helping them with life skills, you know, and we're worried about shaming a body. Well, if you It's detrimental not only to um them, but it's also detrimental to the men folk. >> No, let's not convert it right now. >> I'm not going to stop it. I I'm I'm telling you this this is a good example of how the process works. However, that's not the
072purpose of tonight. Okay? We need we need to have this discussion. >> We do >> and and we can but what I the reason I picked up the mic was that I'm going to try to bring it back on track because we are here for the purpose of discussing evaluation of the superintendent and the process. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. So with that, >> what should the board expect from the superintendent? Well, you have a controversial topic. Your expectation is the superintendent then puts together a process to deal with it. You can't come to a board meeting and argue it amongst yourselves. You need to have guidance. the superintendent will do the research, bring it to you, and you can make your judgments based on that. >> I'm going to ask a follow-up
073question. I'm going to keep it high level. My question is if the superintendent and her administration has done that previously and it's being brought back to do it again, how do you picture the board or the administration should handle that situation if the work has been done and now a couple of years later recently >> it wants to be done again >> and it's done for clarification purposes and to renew. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Let me say something. Only reason I I I use the word morals cuz I'm sorry, but I'm I got I got I stand on my moral. >> That's an okay term. >> But I say that I say that parochio school. We got we got St. Anastasia. We got St. Mar. I guarantee you if you walk in those buildings,
074>> what we see in our buildings, you will not see that because >> that's a bias. But >> that will be part of your discussion as a board >> finding a way to move forward then the administration will implement that. >> We need to get back on track then please. >> Yeah we need yeah as I said this >> sounds like you got a topic to discuss. >> This is a topic that we need to discuss but it will not be resolved tonight. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm going to go back to the high level question that Miss Lensine said, but I think the question also would be as a board, is this a discussion that we want to revisit? And the board would say yay, is there a consensus? Yes or no? And then
075if the board said yes, then we would go back or we would go back and do the work on it. And so that I that's the process, right? So I'm going just taking us back to the process, not the issue. Mhm. >> Thank you, sir. >> Yeah. And the administration is charged with bringing you the information so you can make your decision. >> Yeah. >> But it sounds like this. >> And it's a good Well, what's happened here is a good illustration of what is board work and what is the superintendent. Exactly. And that's, you know, and sometimes we want to solve it all right here tonight or we want to have another meeting and solve it. And it's not our job to do that. And it doesn't mean you don't have a voice in
076the discussion. Everybody has a voice, but it's the responsibility of administration to follow through. >> The decision lies with you. >> Yes. But >> policy work is board work. I think that >> policy board >> and this is policy. So that's why >> but member Hannah wants to >> Exactly. But this is a good example too of how we sometimes get off track, >> you know, from what is what is the job of what the board is being, you know, told our job is tonight. And it is. This is not our job tonight. Exact. So the board president tried to pull this back several times. We're still talking about it. >> And we're still talking about it. >> No, I'm not talking about that. >> But what we could add to this on both sides
077then is that we should expect that each other know our policies. So the board expects that the superintendent knows and understands the policy and what the intent was behind it. vice versa. She should expect that the board also speak with one voice and understand and know the policy and the intent behind it. So I think those bullets need to be made on both sides of the deck. >> Right. >> We all learned something tonight. >> Yes, we did. >> So we should all go back and read that policy because I was when it was >> invite me back for the discussion over the dress code. >> Let's end the discussion. Let's move on. >> Okay, let's move forward. So uh the next is to be sensitive to public needs and expectations. I think you just
078gave a perfect example of that right now. You are sensitive to it and the superintendent the board expects from you the superintendent to be the face of the district and the community and I know how active you are. You live in the community. I know how active you are to develop and execute both short and long range plans. That is an expectation of the superintendent. You as board members contribute absolutely but the execution and putting it all together comes from the administration. Next would be to manage and develop an efficient board agenda. And I liked what you were saying earlier. You now have a monthly calendar, two meetings per month. It's it's getting things more in line, more calendarized, more efficient. Yes. And it you can have a meeting every week doesn't mean you're running
079a good board. >> Too many many boards are in one month. they become very efficient in two hours, one a month. So if you and no one's opportunity to speak is is compromised. People have understood what the agenda is. People do their homework and and they do that. And so I like the move and this is, you know, another way of going about it. >> Uh to manage and develop an efficient board agenda. I just said that to keep the board informed and avoid surprises. Again, no surprises about the third time I mentioned that tonight. Proactive communication. That's the superintendent's responsibility. If you have all the information that you need about everything going on, if you know who's not dressed appropriately, you know what's a code issue, then you'll be able to come back and
080respond. and the superintendent is keeping you up to date. I think that's the real key. And share information equally with all board members. That's for superintendent to want to keep his or her job. You better do that. Let's put it this way. You know, you can't uh have some people get some things and others not. The board expects the superintendent to provide strong leadership. People need to know when I walked in, when I got this tour of this building a couple weeks ago, everyone acknowledged your superintendent. The painters, everybody acknowledged her. I noticed this stuff. You don't think about stuff like that, but this is this is a way of saying we respect you. We know who you are, and you don't hide in your office all day. It's real important to serve as a
081primary spokesperson for the district. Yes, you can only have one. A lot of times it may be a controversial issue. The superintendent and the board president will be co-spokespersons, but the superintendent speaks um as representative of the school district. The board president speaks on behalf of the board. >> Two different entities. >> Absolutely. >> The the board expects the superintendent to support the board's decisions. Okay. You come up with a decision on this dress code and your superintendent, oh my god, I don't I don't go along with this at all. I'm not going to do it. Um, look for another job. You know, I mean, you have to support board decisions. That's why it has to be collaborative. That's why your goal setting has to be collaborative. All this stuff together. >> You know what
082I would say? >> Mhm. >> Forget about everything I said about my morals and everything. Go to your administrators, your principles, and let them tell you what they think. >> Absolutely. >> Stay on track. Let's go. >> Mhm. >> Absolutely. We have to the superintendent has to exercise self-control when given too much to do. I have seen some major meltdowns in places. You know, I can't take on anymore. You can't give me anymore. There's just too much. You can't expect this. You can't expect that. Yeah. I know a superintendent now that I yelled at her. She's in her office until 11 midnight. I said, "Number one, you put yourself at risk being the only person there. Nobody there. Got a whole wall of windows, people driving by, anyone can see you, and you could be
083a victim. Secondly, it shows people you're not being efficient with your time. >> You cannot do that. So, you've got to be able to, you know, self-control, set your schedule, do things in a reasonable way. And she said, "I know. I know you're right. I know you're right. I can't help myself." I said, "Well, we need to help you. >> We need to help you um to run the day-to-day operations of the district." No question about it. The superintendent runs the dayto-day with her staff. No if ends or buts. There is only one superintendent and a school district. Only one person who has the credential for that. Others may have it, but they aren't employed under the superintendent license. And then to hold staff accountable for their actions. is a real key. >> I have
084one fast question before we get into the scenarios and it's not I'm asking this so that um we can understand uh the legal repercussions not that I want to be in control of this component but when it comes to the hiring of staff ultimately it's the board who approves when it comes to >> the recommendations >> the recommendation. So then that's my question is that if for some reason there's a staff member that is hired that becomes a liability to the district. I believe it's the district's responsible for hiring them. Is that accurate? >> So then how do we navigate those situations and I guess it's just with our votes but we don't want to do the dayto-days. um we don't want to hire all of the individuals for the district, but if there's a
085a bad move or a bad hire, then how would we navigate those situations because they are becoming a liability to the district? >> That becomes the superintendent's recommendation. Superintendent recommend um non-renewal, severance, um walk of personnel. the superintendent's gonna recommend that to you because you'll have to act on it as board members. >> But if it doesn't get to that point and there's fraction, that's a different story. >> Well, no, but I mean like no, if they're still employed in the district, we're responsible for their actions within the district as a board. Mhm. >> So that's just some from what I'm hearing essentially that's just trusting our superintendent to hire the right people so that we don't have those issues. >> Yeah. Sometimes things happen. Sometimes things happen in people's lives that change them tremendously.
086>> Something personally, you know, death in the family, a divorce, an adoption. I mean, just things happen where your whole life changes and sometimes people go off the deep end and you have to be able to address that on the day-to-day basis. It's the administrative team that does that. >> You will then eventually be involved in the action taken if they don't resign. Otherwise, you just accept a resignation. But sometimes there are buyouts, there are um dismissals, dismissal process, legal dismissal process. >> I I have two statements. One, I think it would help me if there was a time where we carved out and there was specific employees that there were concerns and we had conversations about and we could we could take that time because I also think that there may be some information
087like you don't know that a staff is on a PDP or has a support plan or I'm already working with legal on how do I get here, right? We're just not there yet. And so I believe that we could um collaborate on what something like that looks like as a cadence so that you do have the information and or you may say it's X and I'm like oh well we haven't been seeing that so what are you hearing because it may be even the first time that I've heard something and Miss Lindsay we've been there before where you put something on my radar like I didn't even hear about that. So um and this is a big district and there's many layers right so not it may if it's at a school it may not
088even rise to me it may be still sitting there >> but as a board >> or it could be gossip and not >> right >> by truth >> but that is something that we could carve out time for if we just made a cadence on having those discussions and you would have more information and I'd be willing to share that information also. And of course maintaining confidentiality and not overstepping our role within that. >> Yeah, that's the real key. >> But I think that's where it's important where we have that two-way communication, right? Cuz I have no problem emailing her >> if I believe >> there's a concern that came across my >> Yeah. If you hear something or something to >> what's this about? >> You you're obligated to share that so the superintendent
089can get on it because she's so right. It's a big district. Things that happen in certain may take a while before it filters back, you know, and there's always somebody that would maybe want to protect someone, but again, you're doing it for the benefit of the kids and can't protect an adult to the detriment of children. >> Right. >> It's a simple thing. Yeah. That's a simple answer. >> So, you want to try one or two scenarios and then I want to show you a sample. I think we're standing right on our timeline. >> Yeah. >> So, look at this first one. The basketball coach. This is a real possible situation. I don't reflect if it's happened here, but uh this is an open uh the other day at the market, one of our patrons
090stopped and told me what a poor job our basketball coach was doing. People have opinions about coaches. >> Oh, yes. >> We know that. I told him, so I'm the board member. I told him I agreed the coach had not done well this year and we might be looking to get a better one. What do you think about the way this board member reacted? >> Yeah, go ahead. [Music] >> That's definitely a wrong response and I kind of have been in this situation since my child played football a lot. Um it's more, you know, knowing how to answer these questions. Um sometimes agreeing without agreeing, sometimes disagreeing without disagreeing, right? Um but yeah, that what what we talked about earlier, right? That positivity, right? That one of um also encouraging other people to step up,
091right? Because sometimes I've taken this opportunity to be like, well, we definitely need volunteers if you'd like to be there. But that statement we might be looking to get a better one >> on a board member >> saying >> well the bigger issue for me is you you might agree but to say that we might be looking for another one I think that's where the real big problem comes that coach may not even know that their job is on the line or they're being evaluated or maybe it's not even on the line right it might be that person's perception and you're making a general statement we're looking for another one if that gets back to that coach >> lawsuit >> that part. >> Yeah. The these kinds of things again it goes back to you're
092speaking when you're a board member you're speaking for the whole board when you say that >> not just yourself. So you cannot obligate your colleagues on the school board >> to get rid of a coach. >> But it's not an uncommon situation. We all know that. Let's let's look at one more. You receive an email from a delegation of parents who want to speak to the board at the next board meeting. >> They also request to know how you stand on their issue. >> What if it's somebody who's got a whole group together about how students dress >> and you're passionate about it, Miss Hannah? >> What do you do? I'm going to say that they need to come to they need to come to the board um meeting and make comments to the entire
093board. I cannot make a a decision about that. And um I I'm got to go hit with you. I am the way that I think, the way that I believe and that's that. >> That's it. I was just going to say cuz that you know the more you say >> they're right. >> You don't keep partificating so that they keep back. No, you don't do that. >> Don't give a little too much. >> And then you let the superend. >> Yeah, absolutely. Whenever something happens, I call the superintendent. >> Right. But that's not an uncommon practice where a group gets together over an issue. Maybe they don't like the principal and they're going to go to a board meeting in mass to protest that they don't like the principal. I've seen that in many districts.
094Very, very common. And you know, you just can't get in the middle of that in your role as a board member. And then, you know, when you let the superintendent know, she may find out ahead of time what the real problem is and be ready to, you know, >> address them or have one, you know, of her deputies in the back talk to those people after their presentation. >> Let's let's try one more because it hits a little bit on what you were saying earlier. You really disagree with the position of the superintendent on a personnel issue. Now, remember remember your role as a board member. he or she is recommending hiring a person who you feel is not best suited for the administrative job and you feel that an inside candidate should get the
095job. >> Go ahead. >> So I think on this one that's why I have asked that we get those bios ahead of time and not see them for the first time at the board meeting. Um because if for whatever reason any one of us has an issue because we see a name on there that we may or may not know or may or may not like um and we have a maybe a personal bias or the community has a bias and says well that person's not suited for that job. They don't have the certifications. if we have those things in front of us and we know all the facts and and I trust that HR is doing their due diligence, but usually that we have that um one pager bio that says they have their
096masters in this or that, how many years they've been doing the work, where they're coming from. that helps us to have that information in front of us so that we can make a better decision and we're not just listening to the bias from our community or from ourselves. And and sometimes if you've gotten to know and you've been on the board for a while, you've gotten to know the leadership team up and down and you may feel, oh, I've watched so and so for several years, that person's great. That person would be better in the job. I think this kind of reflects that type of thinking. What do you do? >> You can't impose your your will on the superintendent. I it is I think this is a good scenario because it's a bit of
097a balancing act right because there are times and not even just at the superintendent level where you know let's say one of our um student groups is looking for leadership within the students and they are just looking at the high performers the more vocal ones but they have a really good candidate that's quiet and if an outside party points out like oh did you look at that one oh I didn't even think of that right and then you start looking at it and then the points are all adding up into that column. That could be good, right? But I think the thing is is that to Miss Fabian's point, if we have, you know, the interview layouts, the questions, it it rules out any questions that we may have. Um, but as long as we
098as a board member in close session are saying from a non-biased perspective, I think an inside person would help with continuity. It's less training on the job. They know the system. we can focus on these other areas. You're giving some feedback. Ultimately, they're going to say, "No, we still think this person's the best." And then you just vote your conscience. Beyond that, you you can't continue to advocate for specific people to get jobs because of relationships or perceptions or etc. >> But I think there is a little bit of a a conversation gray area, >> but then ultimately you just got to vote. >> It happens happens in a community. It just happens. The smaller the community, the more it happens. >> But the key is, it's always something that I tell boards to remember,
099the board of education has one employee. >> Yeah. >> To hire and fire and compensate, and that's the superintendent. >> So, these are almost courtesy that the superintendent brings these things to the board to acknowledge because legally the superintendent can hire that and make a recommendation. You don't have to vote yes on it, but make direct recommendation don't give you anything. So, you already have a good communication communication pathway already established. >> And but this is not something that isn't uncommon. The friend, the relative, the internal candidate, the nepatism, the sister of somebody, it happens all the time. And many times you can't paint all of that with the same brush because somebody's relative could be a really good employee and you don't want to rule them out. However, a lot of times it does
100create problems. So that's why districts have nepotism policies. I don't know if you have one here, but a lot of district I had one. Yeah, I had one and I needed it. Otherwise, it would be every other week we'd be entertaining relatives and that's not good. And there there's one more we can hit and then talk about um some goals. Board member and you are polar opposites on a public issue facing the board. You feel that this board member is pushing too hard and not being civil to the other members of the board. In other words, why is that board member pushing so hard? What's that board member's interest? What do you think about that? How do you deal with that? Well, you know, uh uh some board members uh see things different because of
101the fact of uh their experience, >> their knowledge >> and uh uh point blank, you know, some are a little bit more knowledgeable than others, >> you know. So, and then you know you seen it was red over here and you know it's been green all the time and you still trying to make it red. You know >> there are people that try to do that. >> I think some of the key words is you feel that's your perspective. Pushing too hard that's your perspective. the not being civil, I think you need to have clear expectations as a board in the same language of what does respect look like on your board and if someone's not showing respect or someone is being disrespectful then as a collective you take a moment and say hey I
102think we need to take a break it seems like our emotions are getting the better of us whatever however the board decides they want to handle that I think the biggest concern is the civility or the respect part because you might feel they're pushing too hard They may feel that they're just making sure that everybody's understanding the situation. Those things are are biased in perspective. Whereas the respect is the key component for me on this one. >> Great. That also places a responsibility on the shoulders of the board president to hopefully address the civility issue, >> right? >> Because that's a tough thing, especially if people get locked in over an issue. so heavily that they don't see the lead a day. So that's your your responsibility there. Great. Those were those are some pretty
103common things that people see. You're not you're all pretty much on the same page. You very much so are. Let's let's now shift to a really really good example of goal setting. uh contacted one of um my colleagues who's a superintendent of one of the biggest districts in the state and everything she does she does beautifully >> to the point not overdone not overblown but this is a standardsbased goal setting summitive evaluation piece and I just want you to see another I I don't know what yours looks like actually, but look at this to see how clean and easy it is. The topics might not be your topics, but there's standards that are required by the state of Illinois. So, there's six basic standards for superintendent in Illinois with a lot of subcategories. I sat
104on the committee that that wrote those. It it took forever. And um a lot of districts have adopted them full blast. Some have taken them and pulled them apart a little bit and added things and modified them for their own needs. But I thought this was something we should all take a quick look at. And I didn't put the name because I I didn't want her name on the all over the YouTube or whatever it is. But uh trust me, this is a an extremely successful superintendent. Is there enough for everybody? >> There you go. There you go. So again, six standards. The first mission, vision, and core values. So we talked about mission and vision earlier on in the PowerPoint. It's critical piece. Second standard teaching and learning. The third organization finance and facilities.
105Here comes the ethics piece again. We talked about ethics in the PowerPoint. Social and political environments are number number five and standard six policy and governance. Now under each standard is supporting data. What is she expected to do under each standard? So there's six, nine, 10, seven, and under each standard there's a number of expectations. And this not only helps her, the superintendent define what she has to focus on, but it helps the board when they look at her culmination at the end of the year with a self- appraisal and how she's met these goals. So develop and monitor and share a strategic plan in areas of focus in the district. Use data to inform progress towards goals. Develop and refine a master facility plan. There's a lot of stuff >> just under that first
106standard alone. Now when we do training and goal setting, we always tell first beginning superintendentries don't do more than four because as you can see the the heading is is not so much. It's the action items underneath them that really create a lot of work. So an experienced superintendent, you may want to do five, you may want to do six. She does, this superintendent does overkill sometimes. So she of course is going to have six. And she wanted to cover every standard. Some may be important at the time to this district while others aren't as important. You want to put a greater emphasis on one over the other. But a lot of this stuff is developing, creating, monitoring action items. And it's not like Teresa Placentia sits down and does this herself. This is the
107roadmap for her team. But you're holding her accountable for it. That's the key. You have to have something to make your judgment at the end of the year. and in collaboration with the superintendent and a self appra do you do a self- appraisal >> an overview >> it was >> I don't think I can make that comment >> it's something you may want to look at something you may want to incorporate or you don't have to do anything different just some ideas as to what some things you would like to incorporate into that overall plan that you currently have have you worked with microphone >> um I'm sorry board president have you um worked with districts that um that uses the super eval I've seen it I've worked with some districts that have gone to
108it but I haven't used it myself you know it's the it's the online. It's on an iPad and it's all electronic. Is that >> Yeah. I I'm not I'm not overly familiar with it. >> Okay. Okay. >> But but districts are using it. Yes. >> Right. Okay. >> Have you investigated that? >> So, we do use it in our district for our administrators. Um, as far as the superintendent evaluation, when I came in 10 years ago, I looked at our previous um, superintendent and I just wanted more information being a new superintendent. So, I went and I found at that time was what they were saying was the best superintendent eval evaluation tool and that came from the greater council of city schools. And so the board had adopted that and we've been using that
109ever since. >> Those are generally pretty good. >> Yeah, >> it has a lot of meat to it to give you a lot of information. Um, so >> this is more guidance for goal setting. >> These are all like like I say action items. How many is reasonable to expect the leadership team to do and get their other work done? Mhm. >> You can either adopt a set of goals that are achievable and won't take away from your job or you can adopt a massive set of goals and expectations with reams of paper and then not get the job done, not be available for things. That's that's a common question. >> So, Dr. Dr. Freeman, the board has been it's been about four to five goals since I've been here. Maybe >> no more. >>
110It it's it's yeah, research says between four to five, right, to be effective. So, the board has been about four or five. Maybe the first year we had six. I'm not sure. Um but I I it's been between four to six, but we tend to land between four to five. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. I uh I went to a conference and we went to a school uh that was accelerating and I asked a gentleman how did you do this? He told me he didn't take on a lot of projects. He took on a very few projects and he was successful at that one. >> That's that's what I'm saying. Yeah. you have too many goals and they'll get watered down or you your superintendent will not be able to come out of the office.
111And and that's not her. I know her. She's out and about and people in the trenches love to see the boss. Yeah. I don't know what term to use. The person in charge, the superintendent. People like that acknowledgement. Kids like it. Teachers like it. I as superintendent spent every week in different schools. Almost every day I was somewhere and that was because I like doing it. Not everyone is that comfortable. But you want that. You want that. It's a big district. You can have an invisible leadership. >> And that goes for the other leadership team, too. >> Well, you know, uh not not to throw a ring in the game, but that also work for board members. Mhm. I >> you but you know >> knowing your role. >> Yeah. Knowing your role. But I'm
112just saying uh staff like to see board members >> and at one point we used to I know uh when me and Miss Hannah was on the board. We was all over the district >> into the buildings not causing headaches just the fact of the matter saying good morning and welcome and maybe every now and then that's how's things going and that's it. when you do come, you you still got to remember you're wearing that big B board member hat. >> And people look at you a little different. >> They look at you a little different. They look at you as the boss, too. >> And so it's it's great to have that. And it's the great the anticipation when somebody is acknowledged uh or there's a schedule set. Hey, I'm going to be at
113this building today, this building tomorrow. People get ready for that. They they get pumped up for it. So, those are important pieces and it's perfectly okay to put that as a goal to have visibility piece. My whole feeling about visibility is you can't have enough, but you got to get your job done. So, >> so, so, so is it okay that um that staff cannot talk with board members? >> Well, you don't want to interrupt the daytoday activities, >> right? >> That that isn't >> that's you're not I'm right. And I'm not talking about going all that deep or anything like that. >> Okay. I'm just saying that um that like as Mr. uh McBride was alluding to that the the the the morale of staff raises when they see board members because it's like,
114"Oh, you all are board members and so you come to see us." And that gives them um that makes them feel better. But when and I I'm speaking from experience >> when board members are not seen >> in the schools it's like a downer to the staff members like oh they don't care we I hear it all the time board members don't care they don't come to our buildings they don't there. That's not true. But there's a reason why um why particularly why I don't go to B go to the uh buildings you know but um I think it's a um I think it's a a a a great part that board members should play in um in keeping the uh morale of the staff better and you know moving upward you know but >>
115yeah well you don't want to be disruptive that's the you don't want to be here and there >> was ever disruptive I've never heard of >> no but just just by coming in >> just by coming in >> well let me give some examples yeah >> I went to Clark school and I you know they're going to ask you always have some uh uh some well not now what's the word I'm looking for they're going to always have some uh requests >> so I go in Clark school uh the talked to the principal and before I knew it uh one of the athletic the one of the uh athletic directors came to me one of the gym teachers Jeff uh because he been knowing me for a while because I've been on the board like
116poor terms Jeff uh and I know him you know this rim been up here I said yeah you bright it's been there ever since I went to school. And so I'll come to Teresa and I'll say, Teresa, you know, want you can you look into maybe possibly changing that rim. And it happened. But that's how I operate. I may go to I went to uh Jefferson >> once again. I I graduated from there. >> Uh the the uh curtains >> on the stage, >> right? >> They've been there forever. I go to Theresa, can we get this curtain stage? And that's when I go to the board meet that when I go in there that I leave out of that building that's my concern and I but whatever it is I'm always bring it back
117to the superintendent. >> Absolutely. >> Those are harmless. >> I think we also have to remind them that we can only bring the concern and we can't promise or deliver so that they're not holding it against us like oh we didn't get that cur you we told you we needed you know >> just like the coach scenario. We can't promise we're going to get a new coach. >> Absolutely. And I think also again um being mindful too that we're not being evaluative that there's not an I gotcha and that you are coming announced. Um kids especially are so easy to distract. So any new person they see coming through that door, they're like, you know, so we want to make sure that we are giving um our presence known before coming. And you never know
118because sometimes the schools have an event or something that they're doing and most of the time they'll invite us to those types of >> I was just going to say, don't you get invited to things? Sure. >> Yeah. Again, that's usually the common way that you get into the buildings. >> It is definitely important as board members that we are present in the schools, in the community, things of that nature. But I think it's also important that we are the first people to respect the policies and the procedures that are supposed to be happening. Correct. >> Um making meetings agenda or you know making an appointment with the principal letting them know that we're coming. Um even sometimes letting the superintendent know we would like to visit a school with you. you know, you that's
119what I'm saying. But um we we have to make sure that we follow those procedures um because we are the person setting those guidelines, right? So if we don't follow our own procedures, then we actually we have a big problem if we can't follow them >> and you'll get a reputation that you don't want. >> Uh super fast. If a school invites me, I'm I'm not sending you an email. >> Right. Right. just because it's like there's a a schoolwide event, that's another email. If that if you need us to change that, let me know. But if I'm being invited that, you know, there's the amazing shake over at Oakdale or if they're doing um uh a reading day or Congressman Schneider is coming, that sort of thing, I'm I'm not sending an email. But
120if we are out of blue wanting to go visit one of our our schools, then it's like, "Hey, just so you know, I'm going to be going to to look at the school today." >> Yeah. >> Advance better. But >> well, there are a lot of opportunities for board members to be in schools for events and activities and and you will get invitations. The key is know your role >> and people will corner you and try and get more out of you. Yeah. Don't don't promise or cross your fingers when you walk in or tie a string around whatever it is. Make sure that you don't speak on behalf of the whole board. I think that's the critical piece. So this um list of things under the standards is just something to look at. I
121wouldn't say for Terresa Placentia, put your name on it and it's good. No, this is for somebody else. But there are a lot of common things that you can focus on and things that can be measured by a midyear report and a year self avail. The process of reading a person's self-evaluation gives you sort of the story of the year. It's really I know superintendents overdo it. a good friend of ours. I called her and asked her to send me her um goals and evaluation. She said, "Are you sure you want all this?" I said, "Just send it to me. I'll determine that." It was in the form of a book, 25 29 pages. I said, "I can't I'll break my printer." I said, "I'm not gonna do this." She said, "Well, I told you
122I warned you." But she was a new superintendent. She just there wasn't anything that wasn't commented on or reviewed and it was really well done. But I said, "Do you have any time to be superintendent during the year working on this book all year?" And she said, "Well, it did take a lot of time and it did take weekends and evenings." And I said, "You already have done plenty." So, there's a lot of ways to do it. We see a lot of different ideas out there. Nothing wrong with borrowing somebody else's idea, somebody else's language. I always feel the more simplistic that you put it, the better understood, the easier it is to achieve. If you get into details that are first of all, you don't even understand. Then it'll cause problems in the end.
123So this is simplistic, but not a pushover. There's a lot of stuff in here. And when you start talking goals and you're going to do that this year, next year. Okay. Um I have another copy where he has a three-year goal setting and his evaluation and goal setting is based on three consecutive years. I've rarely seen that >> because things change so much. right now. I wouldn't do anything for 3 years because you don't know what it's going to happen and you're going to have some real financial issues to deal with. So, I wouldn't recommend that. I have it and I decide let's maybe sit back on it. I could always give it to you to look at, but uh it's very different in how it's done with a three-year span. I like one year
124at a time. Keep focused on one year at a time. And also, you gotta let the superintendent have time to do her job. You can't be doing paperwork all day long and then not be able to interact with people. >> Real key. And then the other piece, the issue that you mentioned about um the staff people not performing, needing information about that. It's okay to put that in there as a goal. more communication about people who aren't performing. I heard a lot of things mentioned as we talked about stuff that might want to be in part of the goal writing process, >> not as a master goal, but a sub goal, >> but it could fall under one of the standards. >> It's so easy to organize things based on the standards. Go >> ahead.
125>> So, I'm going to be extremely honest. Um, when we were setting this meeting, I was very skeptical of why do we need this? Who are you? What's the background? Who's calling for this? The purpose, etc. It was just like, hey, we're doing this. Um, but I think looking at the past two years of goals that I've been on the board for versus doing more standardsbased, I'm actually very appreciative of your time in going through this because for me, if we are asking our students to meet standards, if we are asking our teachers to meet standards, it makes sense that we are framing our goals around standards because a lot of the goals that we've had seem like more sub goals. underneath these key pillars. And so by by focusing on these components, I feel
126it brings in some of those aspects where we're doing um where it talks about district image and all of those subcomponents that set. This kind of just merges those two pieces together so that the superintendent is getting recognition that they are accomplishing those in a more formal goal goal setting way but also allowing us to insert any special initiatives or focus areas for the year that we want to insert. So I think this is very beneficial. Um and I just want to thank you. >> Thank you. And these are performance-based. Remember performance-based that's the key. Um, >> yes. >> Okay. I guess maybe um I guess teaching and learning is in reference to the curriculum and how well um that that the teaching and learning. Yeah, I got that right. Um but uh whose job
127is it that our that our staff >> Mhm. >> is happy, satisfied. Um >> morale, all of that. Who whose job is that? >> Everybody down the line. So the first line of defense there is is your building principal, assistant principal. You know, the people in le in administrative and leadership roles, that's that's their number one responsibility. You as superintendent have to be looking at how they're doing that job. And if that yeah, that culture isn't good in that building. It's not supportive. Students are unhappy. parents are on half. You you'll find that out quickly. That'll come to you before anything and then you act on that. But the first defense is down at the building level. This causes people at the building level. This isn't just for the superintendent. This is for the whole
128team. So this is this is a list of things, a guide for what we have to focus on. So the superintendent needs to hold those folks accountable. Not, hey, if you don't do this and make everybody happy, you're out of a job. Not that way. How can we make this a great learning experience? >> So in that perspective, then it's also part of our job, right? Because we're the ones approving that funding or approving that curriculum or that PD. And so if we're saying that this is the goal, we need higher morale, higher uh, you know, a better culture and climate in our buildings and our principles are saying, well, in order to do that, I need X, Y, and Z, I need this PD, I need this to be funded, this needs to be
129remodeled, whatever it is, then we need to be looking at that and seeing where where we can support. Um, so I feel like that's part of our job as well in the sense of we're approving um, you know, >> approving those things at the end. >> Teresa would come to you and say, >> you know, we've been meeting with the principles and there are some things that are really obstacles to getting where we want to go. And here's some of them. And we need you as the board to support this, support what we're going to do. And and that's again the two-way communication. If you have it, then it isn't an insurmountable obstacle. It's an obstacle that you both can overcome together. >> It's a team. It's a team. Three teams, administration, superintendent, administration, and
130board. >> I was hoping you could address one issue that uh seems to keep popping up. I hear this from board members and from community members. And um I've heard a lot of different explanations of it. You and I have discussed it, too. But I would just like to bring this uh topic up for discussion among the board right now and that is the whole question of how do we tie the superintendent's goals into student achievement and I know you and I have discussed it but can you please elaborate on that a little bit? >> Well the the rule of thumb the school of thought is you don't have enumerated hey you know Johnny Jones is going to move up 1.2 25 this it's impossible to make those types of determinations. What you can do
131is an overall look improvement not not from a number perspective because it's impossible to to really first of all the number perspective encourages wrongdoing >> and it's been proven many many places. Yeah. When your job is on the line, you're going to do anything to keep it. >> Make the numbers work. >> Yeah. You're going to make those numbers work. So, you don't do it with the numbers, but you do it with the overall success of maybe the grade level or maybe the uh science scores or math scores or break it down any way you want, but say you want to see improvement by gaining rather than retracting. things of that nature. You don't want to say by 1.5 years when it when normal gains are 1.0 years. You don't want to put that goal
132so high that it's going to make everybody feel that they haven't achieved it. So >> yeah, >> so we've had goals in the past and I think it's more tied to the KPIs where it's um >> like reading scores on the I or yeah the AR are going to increase by 2%. You are saying don't do that or that's gen general enough to do. >> Yeah, it's like 2% 3% four. They're really hard to quantify those numbers. >> What What does that mean? 2%, you know, >> overall maybe at one grade they are and another grade they are. >> Are you going to judge the teachers then and say, "Well, teachers in that classroom didn't achieve it. Teachers in that did, so that's a better teacher than the other one." >> We don't we I
133don't think your collective bargaining agreement is going to allow for something like that. So you can make those statements, but what's what's the consequence if you don't? >> So one of the reasons I'm asking is because our community is very vocal about our scores. They're extremely vocal. They have been relatively stagnant. um and they're wanting to see progress and so we're also wanting to see progress in that area. So can you give us an an example of what an appropriate increased student achievement goal would look like because you're saying not to put the numbers on. Sometimes it's put in the wording that's used is students in first grade will achieve a what 1.0 growth at the end of the year. >> That would be one year's growth, >> right? >> To expect more than that
134>> and they don't reach it. >> What's your response? If you said it 1.5, we expect 1.5. We know a normal gain would be 1.0. >> Why would you be setting that goal? It's not like it's not like you're you're giving them a dumbed down goal. You're being realistic. >> So then in my mind, as we're preparing for growth per year, Yeah. >> Yeah. So it could an appropriate goal could look like 80% of third graders will make one year's gain in reading. >> That would be appropriate. >> That would be a better goal. >> Okay. So it's not asking for 100% of students. It's asking for a re looking at our population looking at our special ed department or diverse learner department. Looking at our advanced gifted students, all of that. What What would
135make >> Yes. I've seen I've seen in districts to make everyone feel good, they set the goal that's unachievable. It's unrealistic and so they would say, "Oh, >> in one year, >> we're expecting two years worth of growth." What happens at the end? How do you explain when it's only one year of growth? Yeah, >> I'm I'm hesitant to jump in now because I don't want to make it personal. However, Dr. Freeman, you can correct me if I'm wrong. When you look at superintendent goals throughout the state, you don't see them written that way. >> Um, and I've done the analysis personally and I've had, you know, I've I've done the analysis and you don't see them written that way. The second thing is the way we evaluate here for me and I'm sure in
136other districts we're already we're evaluating in March and April where we have to have everything voted. Those scores aren't even counted. >> Yeah. >> Um so that's another um hurdle in that equation. Right. I do respect where you said, Miss Lensing, where we do have to take in account our EL population, our diverse learner population. I mean, like if we're breaking all that out and teasing that out on, okay, now it's only 400 and what does that look like and we're looking at growth? I just think there's >> you'd really have to do it for all the subgroups. You'd have to set a goal for all the subgroups. >> I So, I lost my train of thought, but go ahead, Miss Fabian, and I'll come back. No, and I was going to add the other
137issue with that is because we're constantly changing tests metrics and goals when it comes to the standardized testing and that's what we're tying it all back to. So, one year we went from ACT to SAT to ACT, right? Um, every year the benchmark, let's say for um, you know, the school report cards, that number changes every year because it's comparative. It's not, you know, you hit 80%, you're above the mark. It's if you hit that number above in comparison to everyone else. So that that goal line is always moving. And so that's where I think it's kind of hard because we have not standardized where it's been consistent through the years because it just can't be. It's always a comparative, right? So when we're basing some of these goals and metrics on the report card,
138knowing that that report card target is constantly changing and like you said, we don't even get that information until October. >> Yeah. That's what's really difficult is if we're if we're actually doing the eval problem when you when you evaluate based upon numbers >> and >> that's why I say performance-based rather than the numbers student achievement data >> you can put a a clause in there hey monitoring student achievement expectation is that each child will show one year's growth for one year in our system perfectly Okay, I think that's the way to go. But she's right. Most do not have enumeration that will say.3 growth in this grade, 2 in this grade because there are so many other factors that get in the way of that. >> Okay, >> go ahead. >> Um, and I
139see also here that there was a timeline. Mhm. >> Yeah. There was a timeline the key valuation dates. >> Mhm. >> And at one point we were on uh we were on target. >> Your your timeline. >> We were in the the correct timeline. >> We used to be. >> Yeah. We used to be. But um we got off of that timeline cycle and I think that's where things kind of started going haywire, you know, because it was like we were it was like we were evaluating the superintendent, right? Like every six months. >> Yeah. Less than that. And It was not fair. It wasn't fair to her, >> you know, to do that. And it was certainly not fair to us that we had to keep coming to the meetings, you know, constantly. you
140you know so the cycle needs to revert back to the statute timeline >> because there are statutes that says >> well it's a contract it's her contract I need to be evaluated by such and so that's the thing that governs back >> on track with that and then things probably would kind of >> kind of Yeah. >> Come together a little bit better. >> Exactly. >> I think a component of that, sorry, superintendent, is that we recognize that a cycle or two back and we had adjusted to try to get back on track, but then we as board members were not attending meetings and that delayed the goal setting process. And I do appreciate a a perspective that we're taking going forward so that we can get back on track because we we shouldn't be
141missing those meetings and if unfortunately you have to miss then you have to trust your board members to appropriately set those goals. >> Yeah. But even even um even more importantly is that the the the when we are off of the timeline >> there are consequences >> okay in terms of the contract language. >> Oh yeah >> and see and we have to we have to know that language >> and we have to stay on target for that. Mhm. >> I was just making the comment that we tried to fix it and then because we're trying to get everybody to come and they're not coming for whatever reason. >> Well, you move it forward. You got >> and then the the that's the perspective that we are are now going with >> because she has
142to know that let's get the roll. Let's get rolling here. Right. Right. >> I just want to give some context um because we do have new board members. So, I just always give a little bit more. Um, I ask that the board do check with your general counsel. I believe my contract is aligned with the state statute and that's where those dates come from because there is a date where you have to notify and so >> absolutely >> I I the board president maybe you want to get clarity around that to give to the board but my understanding is that is why those dates are there and were previously there for that same reason. >> Right. But I guess it is in the contract, you know, that that our superintendent has to present goals to
143the board for, you know, uh, consideration by September 15th. But then it's also in the contract that we have to evaluate her by March 15th, right? >> Which does not seem the way it should be. and and we have yeah that's we have fallen negligent because you know in the past few years we have done that evaluation as as you mentioned later the initial uh goal setting hasn't been September 15th it hasn't been October 15th it's been November or December 15th so you it's almost ludicrous to do an evaluation on March because how can you even set valid goals and meet them you know in that time I the one of the things I'm I'm a little confused about too is I thought that the evaluation that we used um over the number of years
144through the council of school board superintendent was a valid one. I I I liked all of the areas it covered um you know it talked about board relationships relationship with the board you know and you and you there were comments about it. It talked about staff relations the superintendent business and finance. It covered all of these things budget reports. It was very thorough. You don't have to throw that out leadership. comfortable with it. >> Instructional leaders, but then it did have but then it did have at the end >> the first one we had, you were correct, had six goals. Then we went down to five. Then you know the last year we went down to four. And these goals were tied into the um uh bonus payment separate. >> Pardon? >> No, those were
145the goals. The goals were tied into that. So that's that's in the contract. So um I guess my my consideration is could we even go with what you've suggested here and I guess I'm asking my board members are you happy with the current >> evaluation that we have. I thought it was it hits a lot of these things that are in what you gave us Dr. Dr. Freriedman. They're here you know just what I went through and each one of those categories has >> combine take take from and use it. >> Yeah. Each one of those categories, for instance, relationship with the board talks about information, materials, and background. >> That's because they're standards based. >> Yes, it's standards based. >> But those were not the those were not the um metrics that were um
146that were um calculated for the um the the uh bonus. Those are the >> those were not even considered >> for the >> No, these are not for the goals. But these these all talk about they are stand they are >> none of those things were none a and to me to me okay all of those things should be considered because it's not like we are a um like a elementary district or um or or just a high school district. We are a unit district. >> And because being a unit district, there are things all of those things before um he got to >> before we get to the goals, >> he got to the goals, all of those should be considered in evaluating the superintendent. >> They are, >> but they were >> they're
147not tied to to the goals are tied to the goals are separate. uh >> those are tied to your bonus payment but these relationship all these other categories are the evaluation which is basically the summative evaluation you have here >> so I guess I'm confused with >> the way we do this because we have the relationship you know all of these these ones I just went through relationship with the board the staff relations the business and finance there's you know four or five categories in each one of those instructional leadership >> those are common and they are the among super. >> Well, hold on, Superintendent. >> So, just to jump in. So, every district has their own way of doing this. So, it's okay. I hope you don't mind me. It's okay if this board
148has their way of doing their evaluation process, right? What you can't deviate from is, and I'm not speaking as a superintendent, just from the contract that you have with your an employee or with any employee, whether it's a union employee, etc. You can't deviate from the contract. Absolutely. >> However, if you know, I brought this years ago because I looked at what would be one that would have more meat where I could get some information so I know where I need to work or, you know, put my eggs in that basket. >> It's really up to the board on, you know, well, it's a joint discussion of course, but it's something that every board does do differently. So, just so you know that, I hope just to clarify >> so that we're all on the
149same page. We have three components. We have the summit of evaluation which are those different categories like district image the relationships etc. >> We have goals. Then we have KPIs which are bonusbased. >> Well the KPIs are based on the goals. >> KPIs come out of the goals. >> They come out of the goals. >> The KPIs are how you rate those goals. I'm just asking, aren't the KPIs based on those four or five goals, whichever you're setting, three goals, however many goals you're setting, you set >> the the the key performance indicators tie back to her bonus, and those are tied to the school report card. Those are separate from the goals that we set when we did the African-American male achievement initiative. That has nothing to do with the KPIs. that has nothing
150to do with the Illinois the IR or the state report card. Those are separate. So there's three different pieces. So we have linked and we've taken out a like we've done I think about four or five KPIs so that it ties into our graduation rate or absenteeism or our reading scores. That is bonusbased. That is not saying whether she continues on and reaches a proficient or needs improvement whatever that final score is those are are separate. So the goals we have said like four different goals in the past >> and those are are different from the KPIs >> it's very confusing and it needs to be >> streamlined. >> Yeah. And the thing is with the evaluation, this August to June timeline is very doable. When we're talking about KPIs and goals, if we're basing
151them on the report card, I go back to my previous comment. Those don't come out till October for the previous year. So that then we couldn't follow this August to June timeline. It would make no sense. >> No one's doing the measure by number. It's just there. The data just isn't there. However, I believe that that was a component in your contract that those KPIs had to come out of the report card >> and KPI stand for >> I think a key performance indicators. >> Oh, key performance. for a potential bonus and then that came after CO because that was in there that was a component of the contract in 2017 and the board didn't decide to enact the bonuses until around COVID because the heavy lift that the district did especially the superintendent and
152her team getting our kids where they needed to be in that that pandemic. So that's when it first came in and when I and there's been conversations around this and we'll we'll take that off the table whether it's a go forward or not but those KPIs had to be based on per your contract because it was decided upon that that was a neutral >> outside of us. We don't have a control >> and that's just an expectation. >> Yeah. But what I'm saying is if that's in our contract, we still have to do those KPIs. Then our timelines, we're going to have to do separate timelines. >> But it was always a separate timeline. >> And the problem was >> always it hasn't been recently a separate timeline because we've been so late. So that's
153my issue. >> Things get in the way, >> but it's been extremely late. >> Yeah. I always want to remind the board that although the expectation falls on the superintendent, she's not the one in the trenches, she's not the one standing in front of our students. So the stuff that when we're hitting when we're um putting those goals together, we're also giving our teachers only three months or two months to get to that goal. And so that's where I want us to also think about when we're writing these um goals, what really is high level that she can do and what really is something that needs to be delegated because we have to allow the amount of time for those that are in the trenches if it's something new to get trained on and to
154actually be able to implement. Um, so just a thought if we are going to go back, which I've been proposing to because for us it's also a part of that budgeting. Your budget helps push your goals and if we're doing, you know, we're we're budgeting everything and then we're putting our goals, you're putting the cart before the horse. So it doesn't really help us either as a board to be efficient and ensure that we're supporting the initiatives that we're feeling, you know, should be prioritized as part of the evaluation and the goals. >> And that is um you're you're absolutely correct about that. Um and that's why the budget process, the budget development process, that's why that's done when it is at the time when it's done because the the the the goals for the
155budget has been already done by the administration, by the superintendent. All that's already done after we before we even walk into that budget development meeting, the goals are already there. >> You you know, so I just think that we just have to sit down as a board and we have to get this timeline back in order. That that's kind of >> it'll help everybody. >> It will help everybody. If you have a timeline and and you follow that the expectations that your superintendent knows what's coming rather than, oh, when are they going to do this, when are they going to do that, >> it leaves too much uncertainty. But again, there are so many factors that influence the projection of numbers like not getting the results until the next year until the next contract year.
156That's why people have gone away from all that. >> Absolutely. A and and it also >> um Uhuh. Okay. And it also um um kind of domino a domino effect. If the superintendent if we're out of um cycle with the superintendent's evaluation, then there's other evaluations that need to be done that are probably out of uh the cycle as well. >> That's on her plate. Absolutely. And so, you know, we just got to get it back in. >> Mhm. >> And and again, that that will come from the superintendent and the board president getting together and designing a small plan. Nothing elaborate. Doesn't have to be 20 pages, you know, a one page. Hey, here's when we're going to do this. Here's when we're going to do that. And float it out. Doesn't even need
157to be a long discussion. I don't think anybody have any argument about it. The key is if somebody's not there, you need to move on. You can't have it held up because someone can't make a meeting. >> I think they should just be part of the standard when they put out the board calendar of meetings. It should just be an automatic built-in so that it's not trying to organize dates just like we know >> further in advance the better it is. >> Second and fourth Tuesdays. We know every year it's this is the meeting. Yep. You have >> two goal meetings said, one for brainstorming, the other for finalizing. I know you like that. >> And then, >> you know, come review time, you have those predetermined. >> So, you make plans around that. >>
158That's excellent thinking. And we know that we have to do it, so we might as well plan for it. >> Perfect. >> And Miss Ann, you know, I think I think we're all on the same page here. We all realize we all realize, >> you all are, >> that we have to get back in sync, right? >> Okay. We can't be effective if we're putting the cart before the horse and we're doing things out of order and we're not giving the superintendent enough time to achieve goals that that we are approving very late in the cycle. So, this is what we're attempting to do here. We're attempting to get back on track and we can do that. That means we're going to be we're going to be busy during the next month. >> Okay? So,
159I just want you all to be aware of that because August seems to be the key the key month, >> right? So, um, we're gonna be busy and the good thing about it is that everybody here agrees with what we have. >> I didn't see any discontent amongst each other. You practice the ethics of being on a board and respecting it. This is a nice start. I mean, this should roll. It really should. >> I think this whole piece is is worked out. It's what format are you using? Whether you use the national associations format, whether you use u a hybrid that you've come up with doesn't really matter. The key is what's what do you want to get out of it and you want to get enough information to evaluate the superintendent and meet
160the contractual obligations. And you know, uh, there were some questions when we first set this meeting up, you know, as to why we were doing this and what we were trying to accomplish by this, but you know, I just tried to explain to everybody, I'm not the expert on this and I really felt that we needed help and guidance >> and this is what we're getting. And Dr. Freriedman, I just want to thank you for being willing to come and work with us because we we need help. I mean, we all have a lot of ideas, but you know, we all we need to get on track and and just the little a bit of advice and guidance that you're giving us, I think, is helping us to become more solidified as as a board
161and as a group, you know, knowing which way we have to go. >> I like what I saw, >> right? Really? I've It's been a while since I've been at a board meeting or anything, but >> I think maybe this new environment, >> isn't it nice, >> has energized every it's the lighting. >> It's the lighting. It you know, there's something about lighting that it does affect your learning. So, you you never know, but you're you're in a good spot. >> Handouts for us. >> I had one other one, but again, it kind of speaks for itself. It's the one where it's a threeyear goals and indicate. Three years is a long time in this business. So the more I looked at it, the more I said that probably be too confusing and too much
162to duplicate. >> So I mean you can have it if you want. >> I don't like to see >> here. Take it. It's >> a lot of paper. Yeah. In this political climate. It looks like >> who else? Anybody else want a copy of that? >> I just I don't make threeear goals at my work. So >> yeah, threeear goals is a little much. But he's dealing with a different kind of situation. >> Yeah, everybody's everybody's situation is different. Every board reacts differently, does things differently. The key is, you know, the momentum is moving forward. Again, go back to earlier comments how well things are going. the positive stuff that's happening, the lack of negativity. I shouldn't say that, but the lack of negativity. >> Move with it. Go with it. You know, people get
163along. This is a good board. It's good. >> And your superintendent has been here 10 years. Hard to believe. >> Eight. Oh, wait. >> Eight. Okay. >> Like, okay. I'm like, "Oh, God." >> You're getting You're getting old. >> Your memory is failing you when you're counting superintendent years. >> It's like dog years. >> Yeah. Like dog years. >> Eight years. Eight years. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. And she hasn't changed one iota. >> Nor have any of you. >> Okay. Um we are going to have to do some serious planning >> over the next few days. And um what I will do is I will keep the board involved and and apprised of uh everything that uh that we're trying to put together. And I'm going to be looking for for input from all of
164you. And um just want to ask before we adjourn, does anybody have any comments, questions, anything I'd like to say before we wrap up? >> It's been >> I enjoyed it. >> Yeah, it it's it's been um productive. >> Bless you. It's been um cordial >> very much so >> and it is good and I just want to I just want to give uh kudos to the board president um because it appears and I'm being candid um it it just seems like there's a different um different aura if you will, >> different atmosphere, different um different kind of ways of doing things. >> Yes. >> It just feels that way to me and it's very welcoming. >> And new leaf. New building. New leaf. >> I love >> Thank you. Love the building. >> Okay.
165And with that being that was a mic drop that be you hope no truck overturns. >> With that being said, I would like to ask for a motion to adjourn. >> Motion by Miss Linding, second by Miss Fabian. All in favor? >> I >> oppose. Motion carries. Meeting is adjourned at 8:34 p.m.