001The treasure second. Hi I >> totally. Sorry. Second question Sunday night. I motion to add the policy reviews. Yes. >> Happy A correct >> thank you. Um, >> so we don't want to vote to add to a social Why don't we just recognize >> policies? We'll agree to recognize >> this is to adopt the agenda and All right. the presentation. This is Megan with Western Park. Megan, >> hello. Um, yeah, so I'm joining you guys and let me know if they need to speak up. I'm happy to do so. My mom's a retired teacher, so I know teacher voice and I can implement when necessary. So you just let me know if I'm not being loud enough. Um, so uh I was asked to talk about commit board governance and roles and general information about
002committees, board committees, administrative committees. So we're going to talk about uh really quickly, maybe the next 10 to 15 minutes because I know you guys have a lot of important work to get to today. We're going to talk about just some basic considerations to be aware of when it comes to those types of things. Um, so board governance is first. Um the governance structure is essentially structured so that the board of education as a governing body, the board as a whole is what governs the district and individual board members essentially do not hold the same power as the board as governing body unless that authority is granted to them in some way through some type of board action. That can be through uh board action uh set forth in policies that are adopted, separate board
003action uh with regard to particular items or circumstances. uh resolution, things like that. So unless that authority though has been designated, it's not something that an individual board member holds in their capacity. Um the chain of command is also really important to kind of keep in mind here in terms of the governance structure of a district. So the chain of command is typically set forth in the district's organizational chart. And the organizational chart is required to be adopted into the board policy manual. So that's something that you guys would have in your board policy manual. Um and it it sets forth the fact that the board is kind of at the top here as the governing body. Uh the superintendent and treasur are the two positions that are directly responsible to the board in that
004structure. If a district were to appoint a business manager, uh the district would have the ability under that statute to also have the business manager report directly to the board. Um it doesn't have to be structured like that, but the statute gives the board the authority to do so. Other than that, all of the other positions are are typically responsible to their direct supervisors up the chain of command to the superintendent and how that's uh structured through your organizational chart. So, the role of the board typically revolves around adoption of policies and procedures to guide uh the governance of the district uh toward its uh the board's mission and vision. Um board policy adoption is one of the most important functions of a board of education. Uh it's something that is can be really cumbersome.
005I mean you guys know when you have your board policy manual it's really really long right uh and kind of keeping everything up to date is not a small task but it's a really important function because that is how the board tells everyone in the district and the community and the students the staff what their expectations are. Um and uh boards also vote to approve items like the school calendar, the budget and appropriations, things like that at the recommendation of administrators. Uh strategic tr planning and setting that mission and vision to align with policies and procedures is another thing that the board is responsible for. And also serving in this appellet capacity is another role that the board has. So it's really important. Uh a lot of times when you have uh complaint procedures or
006things like that in your board policy manual, the board will serve in an appellet function within the scope of those uh policies and procedures as uh things move through the chain of command. So it could be really important to ensure that even if a complaint comes to the board that the board directs the complainant or or that information to the correct individual policy so it can be processed accordingly to maintain that appellet function that the board may serve in depending on the policy that's at issue. Um did I go ahead? Okay. So role of the treasurer is essentially to perform all the duties and obligations related to money. Um, I know that we kind of joked about even, you know, treasurer prom is a big job, right? Um, but, uh, the role of the treasurer
007is such an important job that there's even statutory language that specifically says that your treasurer can't be responsible for other jobs outside of the scope of treasur duties because treasurer duties are so important and all-encompassing. Um, so your treasurer is also responsible for directing and assigning employees who are uh responsible for day-to-day fiscal operations of the district. Um, and then of course taking meeting minutes and uh pushing out notices and scheduling meetings and things like that. And typically we'll serve as records custodian as well under your records retention policy as it relates to public records. A lot of times a people's services director will serve as uh records custodian when it comes to student records. But almost always it is your treasurer who's going to serve as your records custodian as well. And then when
008it comes to the role of the superintendent, your superintendent is essentially your chief executive officer for the board. uh they are mainly responsible for implementing the policies and procedures set forth by the board. Your policies are typically your who, what and why and any kind of regulation language is the how. How do we accomplish the who, what, and why of the policy. So the board through its policy uh creation and revision responsibilities sets that standard and then the administration goes forth to implement and enforce those things on a on a daily basis in line with the mission and vision of the board. um your superintendent is responsible for directing and assigning teachers and other district employees um and students to schools and grades, things like that. Uh and then and then performing any other duties
009that are delegated or designated to the superintendent. Um there are also some statutory duties, right, that might specifically by virtue of the law be designated to the board or a particular administrator. So, uh duties can sometimes arise out of law as well. The role of building administrators then which would be kind of your assistant or deputy superintendent uh principles, assistant principles, other administrators is essentially more of the day that the day-to-day kind of on the ground in the building sort of um operations, managing staff and things like that. Um and and there are other administrators who are responsible for position specific duties, right? like an IT director, a special ed director, a transportation director, uh who might be overseeing particular areas uh within uh the scope of the district's practices and operations. So, uh, from
010a chain of command perspective, right, within the scope of the organizational chart, it's really important that everyone understands kind of what their, um, different role is and how those roles work together to make sure that everyone's working effectively um, and communicating appropriately because that that uh, proper communication is vital to ensuring that things are processed accordingly and running smoothly. So, that is kind of board governance in a nutshell. Um from an open meetings act and board committees perspective it's important to kind of start with the basics right so um and and that starts with what is a meeting right a meeting is any pre-arranged discussion by a majority of members of a public body about the business of the public body um and it doesn't matter what the meeting is called right like today this
011meeting was noticed minutes are being taken it's held open to the public because even though we're calling this a work session it is a work session it is a special meeting of the board Um and so it has to be treated like that and OMA needs to be complied with anytime a meeting uh occurs. When it comes to board committees, the statutes related to the open meetings act say that this this applies to committees and subcommittees of the public body as well. But the statutes don't affirmatively define what a committee or a subcommittee is. So, generally speaking, a committee of the board or a subcommittee of the board is is an a a group that was um created by and reports to the board. We're going to talk about administrative committees here just for a
012second. Um but generally speaking, when we're looking at board committees, you're going to look at a number of factors to determine who created the committee. Uh who does the committee report to. Um committees can have some board members or no board members. Whether a board member serves on the committee does not dictate whether it is a board committee versus an administrative committee. E any board committee could even have no board members serving on it. It is important to keep in mind uh that you should never have a majority of board members on a committee or participate in a committee even if it is a board committee uh because that creates implications for the board as a governing body also under the open meetings act. But for instance, you had a board committee and three board
013members on a five member board were serving on that committee. All of their meetings are both a meeting of the committee and technically a meeting of the board if a majority of the board is there at a pre-arranged discussion engaging in a discussion of the business of the public body. So that creates kind of double notification obligations for the board and the committee. So it's a good idea if you're going to have board members on a committee to keep it to two or less. Yeah. I want to make sure that it's it's two or more serving but the majority of the board is present. So as a constituent if there's two board members attending can I come as just a a non board member open to the public or how does that work because I'm
014as well >> if can you mean if there are two board members serving on the committee can you come to observe the meeting as another board member? >> Yeah. So you certainly cannot participate. Um right. So because it's a pre-range discussion by a majority of the members of the board of the public business of the public body. So if there are two board members which is less than a majority serving on the committee and a third board member just comes and observes and doesn't participate technically speaking I think that you could make an argument that that person's not engaging in the discussion. So it's not a majority of board members engaging in the discussion. That is a risky argument to make though. Uh, and so it's something that, you know, I would recommend staying away
015from anytime we're looking at something like this. Uh, we're going to consider not only the legal standard, but also the appearance of impropriy and what position that might put a governing body in. And so, you'd want to just keep that in mind uh when you're kind of thinking about how many, if any, board members will be serving and then kind of what that looks like if if others want to join. Um, again, engaging in that discussion. If you have a majority of board members present and they're engaging in that discussion, uh that creates legal compliance issues. Certainly, if you have a majority of board members present and not everyone is participating in the discussion, you might be okay from a legal perspective, but that might create appearance of impropriety questions that you might wish to
016avoid. Um so yes, any other questions of committee state anything that might be a little different? Um I don't have the policy right in front of me. I do have copies of it. But I mean you have so we're going to talk about committees more specifically here just in a minute just for a second. But um you you have one policy that talks about advisory committees which I think are more ad hoc committees and another that talks about board committees which would be structured as standing committees. We'll talk about the specific kinds here in a in just a second. So um uh really quickly the basics. Uh the point here would be if you're dealing with a board committee or a board subcommittee that that committee has to comply with all the OMA requirements and
017those basic requirements would be that any meeting has to be properly noticed held open to the public and minutes need to be taken of those meetings and there has been litigation across the state on open meetings act and public records act that has kind of uh um increased in recent years and so it's always been important to make sure you're complying with any legal obligations. it's even more important now because there is definitely more of a microscope on particular issues. So, you want to make sure you really have all of your practices in order. Board committees and administrative committees are an area where there's always been quite a bit of gray area um in the law and in implementation. And so, for that reason, it's always been kind of risky and especially now. Um so,
018again, uh if if it meets that definition, it's a meeting. It's either a regular meeting or it's a special meeting. Uh, and special meeting has a subcategory which is an emergency meeting. Uh, and I'm not going to get into the weeds on that because that's kind of outside the scope of what we're discussing today and I know we have important business to get to in terms of board policy. But it's just important to note there are different notice requirements associated with the different types of uh meetings. So, it's important that whether obviously it's the board or whether it's a board committee that the committee is aware of those legal obligations to provide appropriate notice. when it's a special meeting or an emergency meeting, notice is required of time, place, and purpose. Uh, and when it's
019a regular meeting, uh, which would be any meeting scheduled at the organizational meeting, um, you it's just time and place that has to be noticed. So, there's a difference here. Um, the other thing that's important to note as well, once the purpose has been noticed, uh, and you come together for the meeting, you can't add things outside the scope of the proper notice purpose to the discussion that occurs during the meeting. So it's important to make sure that there are good practices in place for providing that notice and it is applied consistently. Again, minutes have to be prepared even for board committee meetings. They have to be promptly prepared. They have to include sufficient information. So someone who wasn't present would be able to understand the discussions that occurred and the reasoning and justification for
020any decisions that happened. So it doesn't have to be word for word. There are a number of different ways that minutes can be captured but they have to be sufficient to ensure that someone who wasn't present could read the minutes and understand um what was discussed. Uh they are assign or they are approved uh and after approved they are maintained. They are public records. Minutes in draft form before the next meeting when they get approved are also public records. So draft minutes are public records as well. So if you get a public records request for minutes before the board has assembled again for a subsequent meeting, those would have to be released in their draft form. Uh just designated though clearly as draft. Um and then obviously to the extent that an executive session occurs
021in any sort of meeting uh under the allowable reasons under 121.22G um minutes are not taken of executive session. Uh so what the minutes would reflect would be the allowable reason for entering executive session, the time when executive session was entered and then the time when the body returns back to the open session and resumes its meeting. You don't adjourn your executive session because that's action. No action can be taken in executive session. All of those types of things. So okay. So uh to to what I had mentioned before in terms of types of board committees, there are a number of types of board committees and sometimes the makeup of committee and the standards related to them and their responsibilities are governed by the law. So committees established by law, rule or regulation or one
022form. So like a business advisory council with some exception, you're supposed to have a business advisory council. there's some there's an opportunity to go through your ESC, but if not, you have to create a business advisory council and there's statutory language that talks about what that looks like. A district's district records commission, that's another example. So, the district records commission, their statutory language that says that the superintendent, treasurer, and board president are the members of the district records commission and they have responsibilities for reviewing records before they are disposed of. and there are specific obligations they have in terms of processing records under your RCT, your records retention schedule. Um, so those are two examples of statutoily driven committees don't require any board action to create them because the law already creates them and dictates
023what they look like. Board created committees are different and can be a number of different varieties. As I mentioned, you have the one policy um that talks about uh standing committees, right? So standing committees are typically assigned at your organizational meeting although they can be created at any time. Um typically your board president is going to be designated and your policy is the person who uh appoints people to these committees and that typically plays out by the board president saying hey is anyone interested in serving on this committee and then uh designating uh anyone you know as as Yeah. >> on the designation piece. Yeah. So typically speaking, board policy will say uh and the standard would be that you know your board president would be the person responsible for for designating who will serve
024on the committee and in a typical practice the board president will first ask you know does anyone have interest in serving on this committee. Um but ultimately the board president is typically tasked with >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and so standing examples of this would be like your policy committee, curriculum, uh facilities, uh committee, things like that. Um and they are not like they they stay in place yeartoear till the board formally takes action to dissolve them. Um so you know they get created and then uh and then they they stay in place, right? And they they continue on. Uh an ad hoc committee is a little bit different, right? That's a committee that's created for a specific purpose and to so an ad hoc committee essentially is created for the specific purpose and
025then once that purpose is served the committee kind of ceases to exist, right? That's typically how that would work. So, if you're considering uh building new buildings or making large renovations or something like that and you need a committee to work on some recommendations for you, something like redistricting or strategic planning or something like that, you might wish to create an ad hoc committee for that purpose. Um, and it's really important uh to remember that committees can be a really effective tool for boards because I mean you guys know how much work there is to be done at your standard board meetings. Uh so you know when they are structured well it's a really great way to delegate some responsibilities uh to uh a wellorganized group to assist the board in kind of making its
026ultimate determination about which direction it's going to go with things. Policy committee is another is a really great example. Right? So having a policy committee that can review policies and then come to the board with recommendations and then the board considers them. Again, ultimately it's the board that acts to approve or not adopt or not, but having a group of individuals who can do the leg work and present that to the board can be um a lot more efficient. Um so, uh you know that uh ad hoc committees are typically again like I said, they're not a standing committee that's going to stay in place from year to year. Something like a policy committee usually would be. Committees of the whole are another option and people don't really use these very often because it's I
027mean it really makes more sense just have special meeting honestly that would be uh if there is a particular reason why you might need to have the board the whole board present but you're handling it outside the scope of like a regular meeting. Again, in most circumstances, it just makes more sense to just schedule a special meeting of the board as opposed to creating a committee of the whole. But something like performing a search like superintendent search or treasurer search where there would be a reason for all of the board members to be actively present for everything um might be a reason why you might assemble a committee like this. But again, you can accomplish the same thing um in a special meeting of the board. Uh so administrative committees are and this is the
028last slide. they they put my picture on the slide after this, so I'm not going to switch to it because they can't they can put it in the presentation, but they can't force me to uh scroll forward. Uh so administrative committees are the last uh topic here. And again, this gets a little dicey and there's been a lot of argument uh kind of uh as it relates to some of the litigation we've seen across the state about open meetings act about administrative versus board committees. Um and I think that there's a lot of confusion there too. So, it's really important if you're creating administrative committees that you are clear about what you're doing. Now, you can't like Michael Scott the situation where he says, "I declare bankruptcy, right?" And the other guy's like, "That's not
029how it works. You don't just say it, right? Doesn't make it true." It's a multiffactor analysis. So, you want to make sure if your intent, not your intent because you're the board. If your administrator's intent is to create an administrative uh committee that they are very clear this is, you know, my administrative committee. um I'm appointing these particular individuals to this committee. They are reporting to me. Here are kind of the marching orders and the expectations for this committee and and here's, you know, what I would like to see them accomplish or what I'm looking for them to advise me on. Um they are not required to comply with the open meetings act requirements. And so it's really important to make sure it is clear uh what your intent is and that it's not only
030what your intent is but in practice that the committee remains a committee of the administrator remains reporting to the administrator. Now board members can serve you you might have an administrator who says I would like a board member to serve on this committee and that's fine. That doesn't change the characterization of the committee from a board committee to an administrative committee. It's not encouraged and it's not typical that that will happen, but there could be circumstances where your administrator might want a board member to serve. Um so like I said though the most important thing you can do is make sure that there's a clear designation of intent and that in actual implementation of the committee uh you know nothing runs the foul of those obligations and changes the characterization of the committee from an
031administrative committee to a board committee because again if it is truly a committee I mean even if if it's called an administrative committee if it's if it's operating as a board committee OMA should be applied Any questions about that kind of general information? >> Did you have somebody on administrative committee? Do you set guidelines like they're not speaking for the board? Are they speaking to the board? Are they just there for informationational purposes? >> I mean, I think their presence and participation on the committee would depend on the reason why the administrator has invited that individual to serve on the committee. Um, you know, board policy typically will say that uh your superintendent is a spokesperson for the district and your board president is a spokesperson for the board. And so again, I mean certainly
032board members still retain their own personal first amendment rights to speech. Um, but it would be important in any setting for a board member to be clear. I'm not here in my capacity uh on behalf of the board. And that's another reason why it's it's not a great idea to have board members serve on committees like that. Uh because if you're in that type of situation, it puts the board member in a bad situation because they're essentially saying, you know, I I don't speak on behalf of the board. I'm here participating in my individual capacity. Uh but then, you know, there it's hard to it's hard to avoid the expectation that you may speak. We run into that a lot with bargaining, right? where in some districts a board member will serve on a collective
033bargaining team uh and even though they don't have the authority to speak on behalf of the board in that capacity, there's still this push for it. And so that can get uh challenging. Again, I mean there could be circumstances where you guys might want that option available to you. But um if you do avail yourself of that option, if an administrator does create a committee like that and and have a board member on it, it's important to be really careful about that. both. >> What about the argument that a superintendent can't assign a schoolboard member because schoolboard members are superior? >> Well, a school board member could certainly decline to participate. I mean, I I guess, you know, a a superintendent can't force a board member to serve on a committee. >> That's invitation. They're
034not really >> Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. And I mean, you know, frankly, even if we're looking at staff members, like let's say we're talking about bargaining unit members, right? in committee participation. Even a union could say, well, that's, you know, a change a change terms and conditions of employment or something like that. There are plenty of circumstances like that where, you know, there might be an administrator who, you know, wishes to have certain people on a committee and those people are not willing to participate and and that's fine, right? I mean, unless it's within the scope of the standard job duties, there's not it's not something that you could force or direct, right? It's it's more uh an ask Okay. All right. Well, that's all I have. So, I I will disconnect this. >>
035Are you here the duration of the meeting or are you >> If you would like me to Yes. Unless you would like me to not be, >> but I would just as a reminder, right, I cannot offer legal advice. So I just remind everyone that this is obviously just like we talked about a special meeting which means it is open and uh so I can provide general information but not legal advice. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um okay I got really confused just now. I've sat here two years and we've had legal advice from the attorneys in the audience for the entire time. >> Yeah. I if I provide you legal advice in open session of the board while you're live streaming that create waiver privilege issues. So I can't provide you legal advice in open
036session of >> Well, that's new. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just like, wow, you're the first person to tell us that. That's interesting. >> Okay. Well, thanks for that presentation. I thought it was great information. Does anybody else have any questions for work policy We had a little something. just kind of blend it to me. I can hold that No. So I um Ashley sent me hers. >> And that's okay. Um so I have not had an opportunity to take a look at those for and and um Kathy sent me these but like right before I was >> the original ones that I Yeah. I would be happy to take a look at them. So, did anybody else have any changes or revisions or questions about what we converted by what I put on
037social media umh and areas where I see um conflict like we talked about dayto-day operations and schoolboard members can't do that. We absolutely do. If you're doing a new transportation contract that is day operation we're looking at using evolve systems dayto-day operations um how we're going to keep software policy that is dayto-day operation. There's a lot that we do is in fact directly affecting day-to-day operations. So um there it's a fine line trying to draw between um interfering with the daily duties of the superintendent and saying that we don't affect dayto-day operations. So that was an important clarify because if you really dig into it we definitely put some of our policy dayto-day operations when we decided to do the evolved system well not we this board did um they got pretty indepth about be
038where they would be etc in the day-to-day operations. I felt the need for that. Um and I really felt the need for after the one voice thing I think the USDA brought and that's totally different than what we're looking at here was the uh and with the lawsuit was the it's important to me that we recognize board members individual rights. It would be like it would be like us passing a policy that said when you know Bush and Obama and Biden and Trump are elected you vote and once that person's in you can't talk about you have now we all are one voice. I didn't appreciate that. I think that's correct. So, I wanted to address that. And then um there was obviously some ambiguity where hiring a business director wasn't in there. And if
039you have an unlicensed business director spending the board that needed addressed not covering everything, but my experience over the last two years pointed to me some issues where we needed additional clarification. So that's where again I was appointed to a board committee policy committee. We had one meeting and then it was shut down and I pretty much felt like we had no voice from that point coming from superintendent down. We weren't discussing it like we board I uh wanted the opportunity to voice some of those concerns. say something to that. >> Um, everything he brought up is correct except for a few things. I just want to be clear. Uh, the board approved the cell phone policy. Then we came up with administrative guidelines on how we were going to implement it. Then we presented
040it to the board because we're trying to be transparent and communicate about what we're doing. We actually involved some board members especially within safety committee on making some decisions but we made a decision for the administrative guidelines for cell phon. So what we're doing in the schools as far as our cell phone practices and administrative guidelines that was a superintendent decision but the superintendent wants to be collaborative with the board and involve you in some of those things. But um I don't I think there might be a misunderstanding. I I don't the board didn't make a decision on what we were doing. >> So we're given we're given choices. We were given choices by the state and when we choose that those choices, we box you in to a particular course of action. You might
041have choices administratively within that. What I'm saying is we affect when we say there will be no cell phones or we want the cell phones in polish in pouches whatever we decide that affects the we are affecting dayto-day operations you might you of course choose how to implement that when we choose this is the metal detection system >> can policy right now I'd also like to say that our polic on development policy is proposals regarding work policies and operations may originate at any of several sources students community residents employees board members consultants or civic groups so membership is not unusual but I agree I think that we govern >> right but and that's what I was trying to pick up because it says I thought it was >> the reason I as originated from it
042was the nature of how it originated and behind it I wanted to if there was something very important that occurred or a widespread issue and why we are still need to change policy and I think usually you don't change a policy based on a situation you change it on um the historical nature of like impact or some kind of improvement that you're trying to get to. Yeah. >> It's just a one, >> meaning it's specific to one and not a widespread issue. There was just that occurred. You wouldn't change a policy bas if you spent a couple hundred,000 on an argument over whether or not I could speak. for me. So there are policies that we have to update on an annual basis and the OSA puts those on board docs. You can look at
043them and they do these sheets. >> It's called a PQ sheet when we were doing >> listed there. Typically the superintendent brings that All right. I'm seeing closed captioning again. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I think you're good. bring the changes in the report step to the side and just down but I'm just saying all >> so it captures everybody and not all agree so not to be but we're wasting our time essentially >> so we're going to at the end of the year because it's been three years since you last did the policy review, whatever the heck it's called. >> This is correct, right? >> And or how long we want the process to be because it was already stable the first time and went too fast. So, it sounds like we want to slow
044it down. So let's figure out what that inservice is and then if it's not uh within that scope we may need to ask them for more time. So then their standard service maybe a little bit more if you want to slow that down or bucket that by our sections how we have here etc. So if the policy apparently got mixed whatever I think that first time is the staff support there's that too I don't know but I was on their website to see there's a service um kind of reach out to say, "Hey, we want to go through policy action >> and go through whatever. However, you guys should work on that together, come up with the board and make a recommendation to the board on how that process looks." >> Yeah. Yeah, there um
045>> I would just say for me I I like being a part of it as a whole because you get different ideas when we were all at the table versus and then there were times that we did do two by twos for questions but we did have meetings and went through those but everybody's perception is different. I'm just throwing that out there because we lose that opportunity to hear the other pieces and ask questions. It's echoing. You're not crazy. >> I turned I turned that crazy. >> It got better and then it seems to have taken off again. >> And yes, the policy committee is going to have to look at those ones that have to be updated. Those are regionally required updates. >> And the review services uh primarily available to districts that have
046completed their standard premium service within five years. review current policy manual with up to 15 hours of direct consultation. >> Maybe we should wait a little bit because we are tighten our budget a little bit, right? And if it says five years, >> it says five years. So, >> huh, >> it says >> you'll have to explore that option before you hit that mark. Once you hit that mark, it'll prompt you >> to like the whole thing again. Yeah. So I guess what I would just say is you will need to ensure that you are making updates for legal compliance of course in the meantime. Uh and uh in addition to that to answer the question that you asked before uh one of the things from a timeline perspective that you want to be thinking
047about is stakeholder not only stakeholder input throughout this process but also uh communication with stakeholders about any changes that ultimately are going to be adopted by the board in advance of when those are adopted or enforced. So that all of your stakeholders, whether we're talking about your student stakeholders or your staff or administration, uh those stakeholders that will be enforcing the language, that they have advanced notice of what the changes are so that they are prepared to either comply with and or enforce the policies uh that you adopt when you adopt >> and there's a lot the policy is so deep that if you if you try to go through it like in a month or two, I think I think you you miss things. And I think new policies are rolling in, but also
048uh one of the cool things for the one meeting that we had was, you know, the different administrator, different um representatives of the teachers and of the other staff were there and they were able to really provide some valuable insight to how things work versus how maybe a perception was that help with the policy. So I think I don't think going through them, I don't think there'll be a whole lot of like we need to change this, we need to change this, we need to change this. I think we'll just if you review them on a on a a regular basis and you go through them, you might find because of an incident like we had where we have need for a particular policy to be strengthened. Um and uh I think there just I
049think there's an opportunity to collaborate there with the staff and all the stakeholders. >> Yeah, I agree. So the reason the BG was in there is because we used to have definitions and now we don't. So, but let's go past that and policy that >> BBC was just a a glossery of um BR on the list. That's a new policy. submitted by >> Yep. around I want to shorten our meetings and try not to send them till 3:00 in the morning. And >> can that start tonight? >> And the recommendation for Megan is not to adopt that language. It's too restrictive. And I think >> so. >> Yeah. The um may I make a comment? So the the problem the weak the weak link here is Ashley that it becomes so um difficult to manage.
050Um, Robert's rules I think typically gives 10 minutes per but let's say that I have my three minutes and I don't know who's the timekeeper and all that that we could work that out but I have three minutes and then I say hey Paul can you explain this to me my time stops his time starts then he comes down and I get back to it and it's just becomes my three minutes could be 20 minutes if I engage Paul if I engage the morbiders whoever to get answers that's not really part of my my three minutes. So this becomes very difficult to manage. Um and the norm is 10 minutes. So um I appre I love the effort. I think we can I think we can do this but I don't know that three minutes
051works very well. And I did I hear you say you thought it was too restrictive. I just I just think that Monday we don't all follow the same rules. So I understand where we're at, but I just I don't think it'll work. >> We don't follow the same rules. Mhm. >> And I would just say generally speaking, right, as elected public officials, I know that we talked earlier about the fact that from a boardmanship perspective, uh, you know, the board as a whole governs and once the board makes its decision, individual board members, well, you know, there's an appropriate time and place to share your concerns, your position on that decision. And that typically happens within the scope of that discussion at an open meeting. Um and then of course as elected public officials who've
052been elected by your constituents because they believe in your individual platforms. Then you vote accordingly right with what you believe individually to be the best decision. And then ultimately it's the will of the board as a whole that governs because that is the spirit of the law in our state. Um and and then so so I think that I can appreciate and understand the need to streamline that process and I don't think that that should go unaddressed right in particular because of the length of the meetings you guys are experiencing. The goal is not the problem but the manner in which you achieve it could potentially overly restrict your abilities as elected public officials to truly express what you need to express. Um there are certainly other mechanisms built into Robert's rules and uh like
053we talked about potentially committees. I know you guys have postponed things to certain uh assign them to committees. Uh you can direct the appropriate administrator depending on the underlying things you are discussing to gather additional information and present it to the board for a later discussion. Right? there are mechanisms that you can use to you know when you're in a situation where additional discussion or information gathering is necessary uh I don't want to say put a stop to the discussion but pause the discussion and then make sure that you're having it at a more efficient time and that's not always foolproof and it doesn't always work the way that it should but I guess what I would suggest is that you you know it's a good idea to explore those other options because otherwise if
054you're simply just limiting board member speech each at the open meeting in this or the time right because this reads a lot like a public participation policy right in those limitations. The point of the meetings of the board is for the board to undertake the business of the board and as elected public officials you should all feel like you have adequate time to express your positions uh and then you know obviously vote accordingly. That is your time to to do that as individuals uh individual members of the board. So our room make sure we rather have peers than first off there. That would be my concern and we'll be back in the same boat. So if we did that would we not be able to get everything out here in this setting and we at
055least that's why like we'll be able to have a discussion here. If someone felt that their time was stifled then we're out in the cyber world being people are lawyers and that's not that's not good. >> Yeah. I mean I think from there it's from a legal perspective and also from a boardmanship perspective right you guys should be having those discussions in open meetings of the board for both of those reasons and it and you know it should be productive and so to the extent that you that you feel like uh you know you're experiencing issues with spinning the wheels and things like that it would be looking at the mechanisms uh that are at your disposal to make that a more efficient and focused conversation without unduly limiting individual board members ability to express
056their concerns. So I think that both of those can be addressed. Um and it is entirely up to the board how you want to address that. But with regard to the proposed language, I would >> No, the proposed language is getting shut down. I can already read your room. Well, I I would I would just recommend that you look at making adjustments to some of those uh >> meetings are going to continue like they've been continuing it just beating around the bush and stopping our district at different times and just looking is what it is. You can just move on. Okay. >> It was my Okay. Okay, the next item on here is your standing authorization part two. We've already approved part one. This is part two. We wanted to be more collaborative with that.
057So I would say the data we're not creating any new powers or restrict discretion. It just clarifies um when administrator is permitted without prior approval and when matters must return to the board for oversight. Another question. >> My question would be are we identifying what if any of these we want brought forward to the board meeting or Are we are we in agreement? We want to be brought forward to the board. We don't want to address them at this time. I guess was my question. >> Well, no. I was I know last week if I'm not mistaken I think a lot of us were talking about that this was kind of vague um I know that was a comment that fellow consumer as far as um it was too broad so I was thinking that's
058why I was going back to compare >> yeah that's that's where >> so I was making see if there was any additional thing that was added that was what was discussed so as we came prepared for the work session that there would be more clarity um to this and I didn't see that. That's >> not okay. >> You're asking for more or >> that it was when we had the discussion before regarding part two because it was too vague. >> Open to interpretation and difficult force. >> Thank you. >> Part two looks. >> Yes. And if we want to move forward, we need to rewrite clear, concise language and definitions so all board members and staff are able to imply. I was looking for >> how do you want to accomplish that? Well, the thought
059was I guess whomever like can we get more information and I think I I I don't know what we're asking or the reason behind once again that's kind of what we are what's the reason behind it so or provide more clear concise languages as Miss Zimmer annotated based off the notes that's what I was trying for so thank you >> more concise point out something specifically that should be more concise >> when we met Last time you all said all of it, you mind if I'm not mistaken? Is that correct, Ashley? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, um, number one was nothing in the standing authorization expands, diminishes the board of education exclusive the statutory authority. Only a recorded public vote of the board authorizes the expenditure of public funds. So, could you um, >>
060that's what we're asking you to do. Correct. I'm understand what you don't understand. I guess I'm asking what are your questions about that particular that >> so that particular part that one reads to most public as we are not going to spend money unless we vote on our board no matter what. >> So yeah, you're saying >> I'm just saying how it can be interpreted. >> It does cooperate with authorizations, right? >> Yes. I'm just saying it can be interpreted in many different aspects. So you are opening yourself up to a lot of liabilities. So if you're going to move forward, it needs to be way more concise. >> Yeah. >> In black and white >> spending authorization. >> I know another question. I know this is something that was added. Was this was this
061something that was found by the part two? Did you see this at another school district by chance? Just ask me. No, I think I think a lot of this was created by um me asking me asking questions and and looking at >> I just didn't know if there was a reference to the discip that's all. >> Uh no, I don't think so. >> Contract the contract controls were very was written very specifically right um about contracts and scope of u fragmentation serial contracting or other structural to avoid approval is is prohibited. And that means that if you had a 70,000 $75,000 spending limit, you would split the same project into three separate projects when the overall project costs a couple hundred,000 in order to choose your spending authorization. So that's pretty >> I think that's
062pretty clear. >> Is that addressed anywhere else in statute? >> It's addressed it's addressed in law. >> Okay. Thank you. So, did anybody have any changes they want to recommend specifically to this document >> or should we move on? >> I just think it need as stated the last meeting. Um, and >> I don't have any suggestions because I don't understand how it was written because I'm not the author. We're going to authorize. So contract controls um I don't want I don't think you all want me to give specific instances right >> I just wanted to be clear like we don't have to give specific instances Mr. just more so like like she said it's vague like that's what we talked about is very vague um executive session discussion formal direction or past practices does
063not constitute as authorization that language there so that means stuff that happened once again before these two board members join that negates that can that legally happen if we want to keep going through any action lacking explicit board of approval shame or unauthorized that's also already statute. So I didn't understand the reason why that needed to be there. And then also how does that look to the constituents? The treasure shelf certified tendencies only when supported by clear reported authorization is required by RC5705.41B. Invoices lacking such authorization shall be held from payment and reported to the board. Not sure where that is coming from um or why that needs to be reported to the board because we do get our our our treasures report. Um I'm not sure what such authorization what does such authorization mean
064like that's I don't know I'm just reading it just >> the authorization I think it means is um the ones required by RC 570. >> So that so there's already a statute. So you're saying because of that you want him to have another process. We're adding a new process in. >> It's not a new process. Just stay in the cross. >> Yeah, >> that's what I'm saying. So that's what I'm saying. Like I I that's already happening, right? >> But what if what if it what if when it's not what if what if when a great high expenditure is approved and no board action or funds are certified, no board action is taken. and that's part of authorization. So >> I would I can I make a suggestion if there's changes people want to it
065that they go ahead and submit them. We'll put it in there and that's what I thought we were doing today. It doesn't I don't know things out. >> It doesn't make sense. So we made that suggestion last time in prison at the same time. It was mentioned. We did say it and that's what we're supposed to have at this work session. We don't. >> So cross them all out. >> We've already voted on part one. At this point, if what was suggested to clarify more for this meeting hasn't happened. I don't have anything else to add. part from from my point part of working together as a team is each person who thinks there should be a change should bring that change forward and say hey this is something I don't understand this and I
066think this sounds better or this would be a better fit here so >> but I hear what you're saying >> this is what was presented by somebody and they were saying hey this is what I like >> and did a lot of work it looks like so >> yeah but we will >> should be looking at it and saying no >> the legal services >> this is not good. >> Yeah. The legal services is based on on my prior experience and that is um when I was on the board when I was board president I had a very strong liaison at the prosecutor's office Nick Solus and uh he was kind of like the right-hand guy and it saved us a fortune. I could call him and get the kind of advice we get from
067maybe a Kegler Brown etc. And there was no bill with that. And uh he would show up, he would do our public records training. He was exceedingly good at that. And um that there was no cost to us. So we had way way way way >> a timely representation. >> What's that? >> What's a timely representation? >> What is timely representation? >> Yeah. Like what's the time frame? >> But that could be clarified. >> I mean, I said suggestion January 14th and then specifically what to say that I wanted to just throwing it out there. So, none of the things that I have sent to anyone has actually been done. >> I sent a whole thing out and it was supposed to be attached to >> Oh, there's something else that we're not. Okay. >>
068Yeah, >> I'm just looking at what I got. So, that's >> and it had all that on there. I'm not sure why it was not attached >> because I specifically said that this part needs to be changed to say legal services shall be provided to the county crosser when available and able to provide timely representation. A failure to respond to a request for legal services within 48 hours shall be deemed untimely for purposes of this policy permitting board consideration of outside legal counsels or excuse me outside legal counsel. Concerns regarding the timeliness of legal services shall be presented to the board for resolution. concise, definite information. This is what I've said the whole time. I sent this on January 14th to Adam as requested. Just throwing it out there and it's never made it anywhere
069>> to Adam as he requested after our first meeting. >> Okay. >> A month and a half ago. >> Well, this needs to be changed. That's what we were supposed to be doing here. I thought collaborating. You're doing that for >> I sent it January 14th when I was originally asked. What I'm saying like I'm saying I responded to the original email from Adam after we had our first meeting and said we were going to send our concerns and suggestions. Okay. >> I did all that. >> Nothing happened to it >> because it's supposed to happen in the board meeting right now. >> Isn't that what was we received from Adam was so we discussed in the board meeting? >> You're correct. In our in our January meeting, we did get suggestions and then we
070were still waiting on the legal piece finalizing that and so instead we thought we'd all come to a work sessions talk about all things the student voice, parent voice, the policies that were recommended by board policy from board members to include this newly added part two for standing authorization for us to talk as exactly what was supposed to. So she did her part in January. It should have made it. It should have made it to our February meeting. So we did a compare and contrast from the original and that and that is where we should have been making any additional suggestions from for this meeting. That's what I'm following. If you submitted that on the 14th Okay. >> So what happened on the same page? >> Did you not get that or get lost and
071shuffle? >> No, I did. I put it >> since we're in a meeting. Can't you send it to all of us right now >> because we're in a meeting so she can send it because we're all here. >> You can you can discuss it, right? Like obviously in in an open meeting. The issue is there's that wifey king case that that says if you have ongoing email correspondence where a majority of the board discusses. >> Can you set up the polls for Paul Senator? I don't care how we >> It's fine for you to discuss it and please seems like she has a lot of notes. She said >> oh revisions discussed like a bunch of stuff >> absolutely be shared with the whole board it's be engaging in a discussion would be like replying
072all >> we won't we don't I don't do that >> that that would be what would create >> I would say the one thing I did have out of all of this was the very in the effective date that all prior stating or implied authorizations are superseded I had I didn't know what that what would that do to us legally so I don't know if that's more of a legal question I think most of mine would have been more legal. And then how does this impact the work of our superintendent and treasurer? That was that those were my questions. Um but I thought we were going to get more clarity first, right? And then that's that's what I was looking for so that there's no confusion that it comes to collaborate. So >> So Ashley,
073what do we what do we need >> to actually because I don't know >> you want to you want to I thought it I thought it was supposed to be attached. >> Did you hear that make sense what I said or >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. >> Multiple people were talking about what you're trying to say. John, >> what do you want to do at this point? You want us to review what you've sent now or what do you want to do? >> I was asking to review it. I'm asking to personally >> to review them now. What? >> I don't care when we review them. I just think they are very open to interpretation and going to get us in a lot of trouble. Can we ask our legal counsel now that we have
074a new board of legal counsel to review this part? >> I saw a disc. I don't think I saw and and I saw a chart that referenced some of your comments, but I don't think that I saw the full spectrum of those comments. >> And I did see part two when you're emailed in. That's why I'm asking part two to the standard authorizations. Did you get that? >> Um I I see your email address is the policy recommendations but not part two. >> Right. because I was asked to review the the policies. I did see I did have get a copy of this >> organizational meeting standing authorization but it wasn't clear whether this was something that had already been approved by the board >> approved part two was not >> right and so which
075>> part one is traditional >> sure and so what I was not aware of is the fact that part of this had previously been approved and part of it has not yet been approved I would be happy to review the portion that is I would be happy to review any of that you want to review, but to the extent that you want me to review the second portion and provide recommendations based on that and and actually what you submitted as well, I'd be happy to do that. So, I sent this chart. I think I might have sent this to you. Actually, I thought it was going to be attached to a college, but it's not. >> So, it only went to Ashley, not the whole board. >> No, it went to everybody. everybody. >> Um,
076and this is just I did quick. >> Um, >> what's the date of that email as well? >> I just sent just a second. >> So, did we get it before Dale? >> I just sent you last time before. No, I I thought I'd ask um Lori to attach this to the agenda. >> Oh, but it looked at the changes that um were submitted by um Ashley and I tried to address them the best I could, but at the bottom, the last two are the staining authorization part two and G. And um >> who prepared this document? >> I did. Just trying to make it easier to follow what um actually it's submitted and I hope I got all of them on there. Um I thought everybody had this thought. Um, so there all your
077questions that you asked during that email to Adam were highlighted in this. So, but then your new thing came um, which changed things even more. So, it like made you have a lot more questions actually. >> I guess so. Yeah. And I and I have the chart in terms of the the question or concern that was raised, but it sounded like there was proposed language. >> Yeah. Email >> to to address the questions or concerns raised. >> There was some and then there was some that I didn't see how we could make concise and >> yeah. >> So that original document that includes the kind of the full spectrum of comments uh would be helpful to have as well. >> You should have it just popped up. Thank you. Try to find it again. >>
078But I I mean I mean happy to review this and the chart and that and provide advice and then I will say we have that and so can we move on from this one now or do you want to still work on this one? >> No, I just want to make sure I'm reading this chart and and it says that I don't I want to I don't I need to cross off the chart because it saying that there's no legal issues and I want to sign those. >> Does any of this part two limit anything for us to accomplish anything? >> What was needed with part one? So we >> Is there anything in part two that we have to do to make it so we can move forward and make everyone happy and just
079put this behind us so we don't No offense Megan has to pay Megan more money for a few things >> like >> I don't need it but I just was trying to do >> like what exactly do we need to do to make people happy? >> Why don't why don't we have her take what you provided and >> I'm trying to avoid more legal costs. It's unnecessary. like what is the point blank thing that we need to accomplish to make this move forward? >> I think some of these were on past um standing authorization, but I'll have to look into that more deeply. >> I just want to be done with I just want to be done with it. I don't want to keep doing this. This is like the fifth meeting. Like what do
080we need to do to get this to go through? Like what do you guys want done? >> Put in the changes that you recommend. Just vote on it and let it go where it goes. Right. >> My changes weren't made because there's too many that are open to interpretation. So we can't base it on my changes. There are no changes on here actually. It just says, you know, you said put in 48 hours. Um I think that was one of your requests or that's been but whatever. We don't just I agree. I want to go away too. Let's just vote on it and be done with it, you know? So there's no changing. >> But what I'm trying to get at is I'm not trying to shut down ideas. What exactly do we want to
081change? like what is the end goal inside like what are we trying to accomplish? What do we want to do to make this like what was >> so to go through I guess if we're going to do that we need to go through it right so and what you you said it was too many open too many open issues that we need to close. So um do you want to walk through that? >> I mean we can if you want. I'm pointing blank just want to know what do you guys want done like do you want this whole document to be approved because I can tell you right now I will not do that. >> No you can see what we're trying to accomplish. >> But yes but like what is the main like you
082have to like is there like a point >> one is to lower legal costs and to engage the prosecutor. What makes sense, right? >> Yes. But we need to make that a point blank time frame because you're never going to get answers from the county prosecutor's office. in a timely fashion. Like it's not that's why I put in the language of the 48 hours so we have a time frame and we don't sit on our butts and do nothing >> and I don't know I mean I don't know that statement to be true. My experience was much different and it could be true but >> okay well that was a long time ago John. No offense. I work with the >> I understand >> stuff a lot like they're overwhelmed and busy. I'm sure Megan
083could attest to that as well. Like it's just it is what it is. It's the world we live in now. >> Yeah. I mean I think the other thing that I would say as well it's not as the county prosecutor's office is that capable. >> Yeah. It's not bad. It's just they're too busy. >> But they they are busy and then they also don't always specialize in school. >> So offer that there are some very specific >> I guess I mean I understand that we can't I didn't understand why >> so that way everybody can hear because I'm not on that side of the house >> and that doesn't mean to not do that. >> Oh other districts use their own like law firms and stuff but we can't do that because >> gota where
084we are. So like I explore different options on how do you save legal cops. It's just apply to us as our >> but like the prosecutor for instance they teach open meetings they teach open meetings to townships etc. So for that instance like that's what mixers did they are pretty they could be very available to say hey this is what's happening are we on the right footing that kind of thing. So um >> so that's how I look at this also I look at it as it says um when available. So they'll tell you, hey, we're not going to be able to do this kindly. You know, you have to respond within 30 days or 15 days and they say, we're not going to be able to do that. So we know that's not happening.
085But if you have something that is not time sensitive, they can look at and we leaving it flexible, which is uh I think Reinger, I don't know, one of them said, you know, leave it flexible. Let me see. I have to look at this chart. >> Yeah, Reinger said, you know, Leave it flexible and then you make the decision. If it's not timely, you know, if you've got a response within 24 hours, you call us, say, "Hey, can you let us give us a response within 24 hours or 48 hours?" They say, "No, we can't." Then we know we have to go somewhere else. Or if they say, "We can't help you with that because that's not our expertise or not where we would go." Then we know that's where we would have to go
086somewhere else. >> Well, that's why I did the definite answer at 48 hours because I don't want it coming up up down the road. Well, it's open to interpretation. It says timely. I expected us to wait a week. Well, I expected two days. >> Well, is different for every >> But that's what I'm saying. Everything that's on this is open to interpretation. So, you're going to see it one way. I'm going to see it that way. So if we go tip for tat in two years and we're butting heads, I know offense I'm going to see you were gone going, "Well, you did this two years ago and I didn't agree with it. I'm not okay with that." Make it cut and dry. So when it's black and white, not open your interpretation. Do it
087the right way or the highway. It's very simple. >> So So what the law firm said to us, >> I don't care what the law firm said. >> I don't This is my opinion to avoid conflict down the road. But it doesn't avoid conflict if 48 hours is not high thing. What if it has to be done in 24 hours >> and you have 48 hours in there? This is interpretation by the the um for the situation, right? Every situation. >> Well, then what you're asking is you're going to have a situation for everything. You're going to have to spell it out then because I will not agree to anything unless it is not open to our interpretation and to be thrown back in the face >> without Okay. Without without without engaging them and
088finding out who's available, what their specialty is. Then how do you how do you nail that? We could we could eventually modify this to say that um legal services for uh open meetings will be, you know, handled by the prosecutor because they're no good at anything else anymore. Or we could end up scrapping it if they're untimely. But if we're preparing for um March or April's board meeting and there's something confusing on there, that would not necessarily require 48 48 hour response. But if you put your toe in the water and see what kind of representation they can provide, um you might find that there is good representation and cost savings. I think >> I'm not disagreeing with that, but what I'm saying is it's not it's not very likely that it will be able
089to be used in our circumstances. >> And I think back to what you asked originally, like what's the end game to be done with it? Like I what is the point? Where are we at? What is it that you want? And we've got stuff in here, but to me it doesn't make sense or it's not clear as you stated. I agree with that. So like you said, just what is it that you want? >> So just here's here's a great idea. just scratch it because there's nothing prevents Kathy or or anyone from reaching out to prosecutor documents and say they want an opinion on this and then you'll know if it works or not. Right. >> Correct. >> Wipe us over. It's not like we're taking away our ability to do that. Right. >> I'm
090curious as to what the basis are for not likely. >> She's saying that the prosecutor's overwhelmed. >> They're overwhelmed with work. >> They're not. >> I just don't see any time where we are going to have three months to actually seek legal counsel and get answers >> for the prosecution office. >> Yes. >> I just don't see it being applicable in our >> a lot of our so nuanced that it would be hard to just reach out on a single situation when it's so complicated that it's you know bad or relates to something. Are they going to be able to provide us assistance given the dynamics with where we are? There's so many ongoing things that it would take kind of they wouldn't have all the information they would need for this period. So just
091scratch the county processes. I should I think the attempt was to try and get them to do things that they could and reaching out to them and then saying yeah we can or them saying nope that's not our thing and then you move on because we don't ever engage them or we may have been able to in the past and we don't know because we're not talking to them we're not being a part but they are our attorneys and they provide us services right so there may be situations where they were so but if you want to scratch it if that is your recommendation. Um the other thing that you may want to consider is you like may have more policy that talks about designation of legal counsel. So to the extent that what you're
092looking to do as a board of education is say to control costs, we want to avail ourselves of these services to the extent practicable, you could look at making revisions to your board of policy as opposed to I mean I I've not seen your previous kind of standing authorizations to to know what this and again I haven't reviewed this in depth. one of this falls within the scope of what we typically would do or you know but you may want to consider the fact that we do likely have board policy about approval of legal counsel where that kind of directive also could be addressed >> thank you for that that's that makes that makes sense >> yeah I mean to me every a whole is each part is steps on further to the county prosecutor's
093office right if they are available if they're not available except circumstances, reform, immediate action, everything's kind of clear. But um >> do you want me to send you those sting authorizations from the last or you can make it? I can >> uh Yeah, I mean I would say though >> you want to see the previous ones. I didn't know if you wanted them. I'm happy to take a look at them. But, you know, in particular, Ashley, based on your comments for me in terms of when we need this meeting, I need to know whether and to what extent you guys want me to review this and and advise or not. If not, that's totally fine, right? If so, I'm happy to do so, but I want to make sure that when when we walk away
094from this, I have an understanding of what you would like me to do or refrain from doing as it relates to this. so I can make sure you have what you need. So, you know, I would say within the scope of it, that would be helpful if you would like me to review this. If not, that is fine as well. And it's BCG is the policy that addresses schoolboard attorney. So, if you're looking to establish these standards outside the scope of this, BC would be the policy you'd want to look at. Any more discussion on this one? On the legal thing or on any of it? >> You're talking about legal services, Ashley? >> Well, that's what I was trying to figure out what what we were asking on. I had subscribed to the last
095part >> as we have changes to that one >> where that >> I know. I was just giving you what I had off the top since you were trying to mark that. So, I was just trying to give you where I was at. >> Okay. I have one other thing. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> So, do you all feel that F is not necessary because it's already something else? >> I I I didn't that part. I that's I don't feel I didn't. That's why I asked you whether it already statute. I don't personally do, but I do appreciate the explanation for me to understand um where you were coming from and I get it because doing card purchases, you know, being a buyer for the federal government, you shouldn't split purchase. I get what you're
096saying, but if it's already in the law, you get training for it probably as a treasurer, there probably all that stuff that's mandated with your license that you take just like I do as a purchase card holder. So, that's going to supersede this spending authorization anyway, >> right? I just this was this was something that in the past recent past trip you know got my attention. >> Okay. >> Because we had one building you know one building same architect same project split into three pieces. >> Okay. >> So it got my attention >> and then uh I don't know where we were with the legal services changes or the final of that. >> I think we scratched that. Are we scratching G and F for sure? Is that what I'm hearing? >> Are we are
097we saying F and G are removed? I'm just asking >> F and G, right? >> I said F, but >> F. >> Yes, that's what me and John just talked about. That's what I heard. Oh, >> it's I mean it's up to it's up to them. I don't care. I had it there for a reason. If it's not, they don't deem it necessary. That's fine. >> Investigation. I think I think H goes a long way to or could go a long way to reducing legal fees. I was on I couldn't find I may have to go back and look more research but when I was looking at that one I was trying to see what policy we touched on investigations and it seems like we wanted to see a little bit more detail. So if
098there was something that already covered investigations and our policies versus being in a standing observation and if there was a section that we needed to add that then would identify the process in which investigations are started or ended or whatever that looks like. That's what I I got but I wasn't sure. That's why I was asking when she was saying kind of vague like I didn't understand I agree. I didn't understand what you what it means. So looking at it straightforward, my question or thought is either we need to see if there is a policy that already addresses this to make the update just like we were considering for the other policy um or the other item on our list that deals with a legal what is it one that deals with the legal representation
099one that's the one. >> Yes. So something like that how we were talking about for G instead of dealing with it in standing authorization go to that policy that deals with standing authorization the legal services part do the same thing with investigations if there's a policy for that >> is there's false so there are likely a variety of different policies that would address the topic of investigations and and varying legal obligations at both the state and federal level that that would potentially be impacted find this and some of the federal and state law associated with those like for instance title nine >> sexual harassment grievance procedure that is going to require you to do far more than initial intake and preliminary fact finding before you could get your your administrators or whoever your timeline coordinator
100is to come before the board to request that the board take formal action to allow them to continue with the other federally required steps and and particularly I'm just going to use title N as an example right because any of the other federal requirements like anti-discrimination, anti-harassment laws and things like that. Those are going to trigger very specific procedurally divid driven investigation processes and it would be in certain circumstances entirely impractical to require the individuals at the district level to come to the board and request formal board approval before seeking legal advice on how to handle those things. Uh title nine in particular, right? There are certain timelines associated with headline in general under federal law and there may be additional timelines set forth in your board policy on that topic. Um and that is
101an area where in particular when legal counsel gets involved uh not for on your behalf right on behalf of one of or both of the parties uh that could uh create that could unintentionally create procedural deficiencies and then yeah so so there are a whole host of topics that would be set forth in board policy already again >> right so to go into Diana's point rather than try to fix an exception to the rule in investigations we probably just need to go back and see where this wasn't followed, right? And just address it. >> That that would be a a good approach, right, to assess the need while while also mitigating against unintended consequences. >> And I might be off basis, but it seems to be that we are trying to eliminate spending. So could
102we not just set forth a dollar amount that if a investigation or something goes to X dollar amount then it has to be brought to the board >> that could possibly be done >> just just that way it's not so back and forth like it's just black and white no matter what it comes you you certainly could look at that as an option. I think you know depending on the type of investigation that might be more or less practical um and in certain circumstances uh like so for instance like with the title n right a lot of times reaching out to your council whoever that is right at the outset to request advice about how to proceed can mitigate against substantial legal costs later. >> Exactly. uh right? And so part of that relies on
103the individuals responsible for implementing these processes and the board's trust in those individuals to make that decision about when that call needs to be made. And if there are concerns about that decision-making, then it would be looking at making adjustments to the policy and access to the legal counsel to put safeguards in place and oversight in place. But I think that you also can do that and address that without formally requiring the step of you have to come to the board at the meeting. The board has to take action for >> Yes. >> that can be unduly burdensome and and unintentionally create additional liability >> because of creating compliance with issues with timelines, you know, driven by federal law, state law, whatever. So I think that you can address the concerns in a way that
104mitigates against unintentionally increasing costs, right? >> Yeah. >> I just don't have a suggestion. >> Absolutely. I mean, that's something you can consider and in certain circumstances that may work depending on the underlying situation. There are circumstances where maybe it wouldn't, but but it's definitely a valid thing to consider. >> Scope also maybe having a scope of what the investigation is investigation. >> Yeah. Well, though something like a title nine investigation, the scope and the under the current rule that we're operating under under federal law, that tends to get pretty far. >> Yeah, that they become extremely cumbersome because of the current legal standards associated with the process. Anyway, that's >> so work needs to be done on this. A lot of things taken out, a lot of things looked at board members looking at
105those and then come back and do we want to look at it too or do we want to just make it their own way? >> My perspective of it was we can implement it in different policies. >> Personally, that's my take that I got on it and also from >> different policies >> that we can amend existing policies to incorporate it into it. If they don't know, >> I think they just need the direct first cross check and reference and tweak where needed if needed sounds like that would be the policy committee would maybe look at that >> and some of these things also could be addressed from an HR perspective and um expectations and goals with our employees. So if there are instances that there's questions, this is an opportunity as the employer or
106the raider rather um to then address the military. So we've got two opportunities to review policy as well as standards. >> So we get to move on then. >> Do we have a plan there? We're going to let that go for right now. Is that what the plan is? >> Part two. >> Is that all you John? I'm ready to get move on >> from this meeting entirely. >> So, I will not be reviewing this >> to the extent that you guys would like assistance or input on any of those changes, let me know. But I'm not going to. Okay. So, I'm going to give you these because what was attached I sent these to Lori too are formatted where when she transferred them to the board docs, it must have became unforatted. And I
107do think there might be a wrong page number on one of those. So those are these are the same things that are there. Just these are formatted. >> I believe it look like the last time >> what you what's on board last time the framework they look like the last time shoulder to read than the other one. I have another >> so planning framework has in front of the board since January. Um it is not reactive. It is structural. Um it defines how we govern not what we value. Um what not. So and uh like I so standing board committees assist to perform oversight judiciary um review compliance capital planning academic monitoring uh those are government's responsibilities um and I just uh thought this was a I haven't received any feedback from this at all.
108So um my feedback honestly will always be that in our district because of where we are the parents should be first. So um a lot of these other issues have been adjusting board meetings. I checked with other districts, they have had a facilities committee and things of that nature like Hannah um and I think even Reynoldsburg when I chatted with them if I'm not mistaken these things have been worked for like especially when we're looking at new buildings and things like that through the admin lens where a lot of the school districts now with what's happening with the budget have been focused on parents and students. So that's just my feedback also. >> Pardon? >> I didn't know if you Sorry. >> It's okay. And I guess for me, we're already doing this at each
109board meeting. Is what is the difference in what we do collectively? because when I've checked with other districts, they don't necessarily have all these standing committees. I know it's nice to have at least the ones in our area. So, I was just asking, >> well, I know the OSBA training that I went to and that was the Toledo school board. Um, they they talked about these being the most critical committees that they have. Uh the superintendent talked about taking a load off and them being able to conduct more business and that the um information was sent up the chain to the board so they were better prepared for board meetings and their board meetings weren't so long. And um I think I think if you do look up committees that these are kind of the
110core um and I don't know that a lot of them have to be that intense but um you know facilities facilities security look at some of the challenges we've had with uh some of our grounds and and maintenance and upkeep and all that. I think that's I think there's great opportunity just to have a little more in-depth look than we get through our regular board meetings and just be able to send things up the chain um and just be more involved. I think it gives us additional time to to look at that and ask questions and >> I just hope that we have the full um mindset to really be here for students with these things like this. That's all I'll say. >> I'm sorry. mindset is all >> mindset to really mindset in the
111heart to make sure we're we're living like all those I'm saying >> and I think why this is important for long-term short-term goal plan right so these committees could function as to be looking at the findings for facilities improvement what we have and what's happening the facility should be looking And um what are our building boundaries right now? Should those be changed? Should they be updated? How many students we have in the building? What our um capacities in those buildings? We know proper that we're not utilizing the full capacities. Have we looked at that? The um policy and government governance of course they can look at policies that will help um with long-term planning and employment and all those. And then the student achievement and instructional they could look at are there any things we
112need to change? Um and then those four committees could come together with the board and say, "Hey, look, this is what we have because the board needs to look at their short-term goals and their long-term planning goals." And this way could set these commitments to do those little parts too of shortterm and long-term and then come together at the board, make recommendations. Of course, the whole board look at it. They can all watch meetings. These are public meetings. These aren't private, but um they could go take some of the time and do it and then that'll take time away from the overall board meetings and be more structured. That's all. Um >> and I have looked at other board districts that do have these and take training in on their website. These are the policies
113that they recommend. Um >> can I ask question? >> Sure. So, we did the facilities committee and the policy committee. >> Yes. >> In February, are these going to counteract those? Are those going to go away or are we going to then have six or >> No, I I would say >> I was just doing clarification just so I know. when this was first presented was back before those committees were appointed and the goal I thought would be just do away with the committees and start >> that's why I was trying to figure out what we were doing just >> but we didn't but yeah we could always update those the language in those are pretty good and this is pretty similar to it I think um we can look at that uh and just
114update those you know we update those policies uh committees um but we do have two of these committees right Um, so >> and I think I think the committees can have a look at this and come back too also. Yeah, >> that's what I was trying to figure out. I was like just just for clarification the signing book. Yeah, these were presented before that was appointed. >> And I think if we we come together and we do a board plan and set goals, which I mean I think we're going to be surprised how many of the same goals we have. Um that the student advisory, the parent advisory going to bring forward issues and those can go to the appropriate committee get get filtered, examined at a at a greater depth um than we have
115time for when we're trying to get through a board meeting. move those forward and hopefully that leads to the more efficient meetings. Speaking of which, >> so the committees we voted on, that's not what we're talking about. Well, I would say it is a little bit because they are two of those are on here and when this was put together um and on the agenda was uh put together was prior to the appointment. So, this has been on since January, right? And then we just put it into the work session. So, I didn't update them or change them. Said that's what was originally said. Let's send this to work session. Um, so of course those two committees could be updated to reflect this language or stay the same as what they are. This is um
116something I thought would would help us as a district to make decisions grounded in more data driven and I just thought it would be a really good idea and it was following ODA and there's some other Did you have a copy of it? >> Yes. >> Okay. So we have Ashley and John on policy. That is correct. And then you and John are on facilities. Yes. And and what are we doing with the So the question we are discussing finding it achievement or have been >> we don't have it. We don't have it. >> Okay. So what is this again? >> Is this a recommendation? I stepped out. I just missed the beginning. I'm sorry. >> So, this is what um this is the board planning on and these are the committees that this um
117highlights in this but we voted on committees. Correct. We I appointed the two committees. Yes. So, we voted on four. >> Well, those were student advisory committees and the parent advisory. Those are next on this. This is a different topic. This is a different discussion. Um looking at each committee and how the board interacts with the framework. Uh we establish committees for board of education. Establishing committees and scope setting planning priorities and expectations for those committees conducting public work sessions if needed. Um determine timelines and adoption of plans. the board is but what I'm ask are you proposing that we adopt the two >> well not tonight we will be proposing those >> I might be out basis but I think the confusion is is when we were going to do the motion to discontinue
118dissolve all the existing committees that was voted down so she appointed people to the facilities and the policy committee and I believe if I'm not mistaken at the end of that meeting is when we estab establish the student voice and parental voice. >> Those have not been appointed yet. So I think if I'm not mistaken, this is just a discussion on these correct though. It doesn't say action but it says approve resolution on the agenda. >> I said sorry for the federal. >> Yeah. So if you go look at this one, it does say approve resolution and title of resolution establishing community planning and framework. So when you open it >> where >> it's the on the agenda and then list all four of those committees. So that's what she's asking. >> So if you
119go to the agenda and then click on the item that we're on, there's the framework and then there's the resolution and it does say approve. >> I did not catch that. Okay. >> I don't I just wanted to read what it said. Not >> and it does list all the discussion >> and so that's why she's asking. So is still the plan with this resolution though still being here. We're not approving it. The question I'm hearing Miss Herbert asking are these other to be on there because this resolution had them all. >> Right. That should not have been. So >> that's incorrect. This is a work session, not a >> But even going forward, are we adding all of those? That's what I'm >> Well, that's what we're discussing right now. I mean, if since
120we already have a facility and policy, would we just update them to reflect changes or keep them the way they are and just um vote on adding a policy in government and achievement? I I think that would be fine. let those two policies, the committees look at this new language and see if they think it's effect. >> So for the record, I just want to say that I don't think anything is wrong with any of the committees. What I think though is that this board or boards, however, has never really developed the relationship with the community that's needed. And so we jump to and and somehow have all this time to do facilities and policy, but we can't show up for the things that are most important. And I think until we get that addressed,
121how can we really be effective in these other committee areas, that's what I that's what my hesitation. So it's not that I'm anti. So just so everyone understand where I'm coming from and what I see and what I've experienced being on the board and being as parent and we're not in the buildings, we're not doing this like we should be involved in those spaces at at the appropriate places, the things that are happening in the district as well. So we can garner the buy in and it's not a set group of people who may not have students or everyone should be at the table. It shouldn't just be parents. It should also be the retirees. It should also be our voting inclus all of the things but we have these silo buckets. So until we
122kind of address the culture and climate first, how can we really be that effective? And that's just me. But whatever we end up doing is what we're doing what we're doing. I don't think it's a bad idea. But my focus is always going to be the parents and the students first because the rest of this will work out so much better once that's addressed. So I'm open to whatever, but I definitely my biggest concern is always going to be the culture and climate first. >> So you want to focus on the student right now? >> No, no, no. I'm just saying >> no the focus on another >> that's and that you're so originally before you all got here that was the focus of the previous board. We thought that there was a disconnect. So,
123we wanted to make sure that the students knew because there's a lot of negativity in our district. There's a lot of things that happen. >> Two parents. >> That's what I'm saying. I'm one too. So, >> but that's what I'm saying. Like, that that was one of my heart strengths was really like how do we engage to get people to really see understand what the board of education does, get folks to really understand the work of what our administration does. that that's not clear. So when it's time to go get involved with things like that, everyone doesn't understand that. But we're ready to put all this time and effort here when they still don't even understand like all the way or how we need to do better outside and getting them engaged or getting involved.
124That's why I was not anti. I just think there were some things that should have first. So on it, cut me off if I'm wrong. Since we have the voice for the students and the parents, could we not bring these to them to get their input so they have a say in it before we establish anything? >> They're their say in what like what committees we have or what we >> like if they feel like this is a good use of our time >> like the students or the >> So can I chime in here? >> Yes. Okay. I like that suggestion just on these committees that you certainly would have parents who would come to the committees and give their input on items that matter and far as facilities students coming in if there's
125certain topic area have students come in give their opinion also on student achievement and instructional I think that they would have more impact in a committee meeting to the board if they're a part of it and learn a little bit more about governance and say, "Hey, what here's a policy that the committee or the student achievement thing the committee or the board has tked the committee with and we need some students to come in and help give some direction and input and what's your thoughts on it or parents who maybe have finance and audits their their accountants or whatever who are in the district who come and do that. I think those have more of a voice than what they had in the um committees that the student and the parent advisor committee. I kind
126of feel like those committees their voices were lost a little bit and um that would bring it. My only reservation with that is the student committees meet during the school day. When you have the committee meeting after the school day, you interfere with parents having to drive the kids. Well, there's nothing that says committees can't have their have a meeting during the day. >> But when but once you do that, then you remove the parent aspect. Do you see what I'm saying? >> No. >> Most parents are at work during the day, >> right? >> So if you have it during the day to be convenient for the kids, then you lose the parent involvement. You see what I'm saying? Like it's going to be hard to try and appease everyone. asking for student involvement,
127but if you're asking for the parent, I I guess I kind of see that, but >> it can be all it can be all of that. >> Yes. I just see a lot of kickback from people on that, >> right? I mean, one of the one of the successes I had before was when we had we we did a community roundt and you have to be done with different committees and we had we had city council there, we had township trustees there, we had OEX people there, we had police there, we had fire there and it really it really coalesed and to the point that that what you're talking about with is I' I'm sitting here and I feel like wow, I've got these skills and this would be good and it be good for
128the district and I I just I never got that opportunity. I was never put on the committee and when the one committee I was put on was one meeting and done. So I I think I see a great opportunity to do what you're talking about. Bring in community members, engage parents. I was I was doing that with the uh with the with the policy committee and we had a little disconnect as to whose committee it was at the beginning which makes sense and I was preparing an agenda and then uh the superintendent compar completed an agenda. We weren't quite we didn't quite gel that first meeting and that was that was pretty much it. So I I mean I think there's great opportunity here and c we certainly know how to schedule meetings for the
129benefit of both. We can have meetings during the day uh to involve students, student council, student the voice committee. We can have meetings in the evening. And there's no reason you wouldn't in some cases mix them up depending on what you're working on. But I think I just look back at some of the some of the different issues we've had with facilities maintenance, some of the goals that we have hopefully for uh being more efficient with our transportation and and communities and kids not being split between two schools, different things that we can just work on. Um and and certainly I've had the time and the energy. I I don't like being here for eight hours in a meeting, but it's as far as working on committees and all that. I've always had the time
130and the energy. I just wasn't really uh haven't yet been given that opportunity. >> I think once we change the name and the the scope or the intention of the committee by taking away from the student voice committee or the parent voice committee. It accomplishes identifying concerns, issues, and suggestions as well as increasing engagement and that connection that's necessary and needed to move our district forward. There is a huge disconnect between our families, our community, and our schools. And it needs to come together and be more of one. So yes, these I'm not saying these committees aren't important, but it's important to have parents. >> It's important to have student voice. They are the ones that are the most impacted by what we do here. Also, I think it's a disservice and I know we're
131still in the preliminary stages, but let's just say those two minorities in the room are not on a committee. That's ridiculous for our population. That's all >> and I was in I agree with Ashley for a second. >> Can we let Megan go 10:30? That's all I want to say. >> Can we let everybody >> I'm just saying I don't think there's a reason you should stay here unless you want to stay. Just go. >> Stay here because >> I was about to say unless you want to wait for this last one. I was just trying to get to that response. I just I agree with what you're saying and I don't think that like I said I'm not anti these committees and so exactly what Miss Diana is saying is that I'm looking at
132how the student and parent would then drive what committees. That's that's what I'm saying because they're the ones that are impacted what's happening in the schools. That is what the intent was with parent in the very beginning and student to figure out what the issues are to then bring back you know what that looks like. We never got that hard with parent that was the first time student issues we've kind of resolved at that level. We still shared projects. We still shared all those things. As far as students getting here, it is hard to get here after school. We do have transportation sometimes that are challenges for students after school. That's why they stay late after school and we have to find people who we have great PTO's PTAs or just community members that donate
133money so that way the the students are there that they get food after school. So that is the concern. So my thought would be that those two committees can provide recommendations like hey this is what we're seeing here are what the issues are here and this is why the facilities would be most important versus a policy and maybe it would be facilities and finance versus policy and you see what I'm saying not that I'm anti any of them I just think their input like you stated Ashley is what I was saying in the beginning letting them have the say on how we go because they're the ones that are directly And let me let me >> Wait wait wait wait wait I need to know >> but I just wanted to make sure I was
134>> wait >> I mean I am being clear on that >> thank you. The reason I'm I'm just a little hot right now because made a comment that no minority has been appointed and that's just false. It is false and I don't appreciate those kind of racist statements being made against not right. So Ashley and John asked to be appointed to the policy committee and I appointed them and I appointed me and John to the facility because we both have construction background. Okay. You uh Latoya asked and asked for the parent and they were both appointed to the parent. No, we were >> so we never did the student because John wasn't there. So John wasn't there. So those haven't even been racist statement. And because >> you said no minorities have been appointed those
135committ but that's correct. That is correct. No we didn't you didn't appoint anybody that committed. >> That's not what our meeting minutes that was sent by Adam said and that's not what it said. It said those two were committees were appointed. >> You said >> to the parents committee. >> That's right. Would you say that being you said no? I'll wait till >> that for students. >> That's not what I heard. >> Well, that's even with the minutes that were prepared by Adam's day. So, just saying. >> Um, >> hey, I would like to say real quick, we have a parent here that sat here this whole time, didn't need to be here, and you and your neighbors constantly ask for ways to get involved. >> You're begging to be involved. And I think she
136should have a say here. What in what was just said? But she can spoke publication. >> Okay. >> You're better at being you're better THAN >> here's one thing that I don't want to happen and I hope actually you'll be here with me on this one thing. Okay. The parent advisory student advisory committee with certain board members. >> It it was me. My name is $20. >> Okay. And a board member is not here anymore. We could sit in the room and they could say equal discipline and bathroom safety and this and this and this are our top priorities and what would be presented to the board. Would that be it or would it be sear or would it be oh comments on social media are their number one concerns? I don't want I don't
137want these committees to be used as personal steering committees. I want them to actually be the voice of the parents and actually be the voice of the students. So when I hear what I hear, I get real concerned that if I have really good hard work that I want to do on a particular item that it's the the committee is going to be weaponized against me to say that oh you know facilities committee according to the students is not a priority and um I that's just a concern and beyond that has nothing to do with you. No, but I want you to like understand that the same way you would like us to put our trust in you to be the person that's going to commute your own is going to have to be reciprocated
138that you're going to have to trust your fellow board members that they're going to do their job because they have to trust that you're going to do your job. >> Exactly. >> That's it. That's >> okay. Can we move on to the final thing which is the committee? But did you have any more questions on that? >> All I want to say is we can't focus on the past. >> We have to move forward but forward. >> So yes, we have had issues in the past. Yes or whatever chaos or things I don't want to put words in people's mouths but we will not move forward until we actually try to which I have said to everyone to try and stop blowing on the past and put some faith in people and let them put
139their words where their mouth is. So until we attempt to do it, we can't do anything. >> I have to say that it's important to um move past that. Excellent. You don't want to make the same mistake on a high note. >> So you want to correct your mistakes from your from your past mistakes when you move forward. But we're on the parent voice and voice, right? >> We got to be able to move forward. If one does it, you can't wait until after. We got we got to be consistent. That's all I'm saying. I don't have a problem, but we can't pick and choose. That's all I'm saying. >> We can all work better to hold one another accountable to call each other in a respectful manner when we stand. >> I hope I
140hope that the goal setting is I hope that the goal setting is a turning point. Well, if we can all agree to be more respectful, that would be great. >> All right. Are we >> okay? So, we're on the policy. We're on the sports committee done. Just almost done. We're this close. We're this close. Okay. So, we have those committees and um actually I did some deep diving and found some resolutions that say they were standing committees on those dives and I also have them printed out here for everybody. Um but the way the committees operated made it seem like they were not that. So our policy said and I put some policies there as well for everybody I have but is resolution. So >> we need to address that issue. Um but um the
141way those policies the committees were running the committees our policies there you have ECE PCF and C right so we have set these up standing committees and um I don't know if that aligns with the committee with what our policy committee set for standing committees those committees Um because we had advisory committees that appointed presidents, vice presidents, treasurers within those committees. Um two board members are supposed to run the committee and be appointed to the committee. Chairperson appointed by the board president >> point of order >> and they're supposed to be open to the open meetings act. So we have meeting minutes that are redacted. What you're looking for? um where we are in our agenda because we had resolution then we had parent voice student >> that's where we're at. It's right here. >>
142So what okay so >> did I give you I don't know here it's the last two pages of the pack. >> Okay. >> So those committees had many minutes with transactions. They had not the roll call was not on them all the time. um the majority of the time the board discussion was not that they were reporting to the board they were we were picking members to be on those committees. So they were not really operating per our policy BCE and that causes a lot of uh confusion. Um, if you want to protect the students from animity, that's why we were said, "Oh, we don't want the people to see who they are." Those meetings can be recorded. People can come in and watch them. We were told they're afraid of retaliation. That's why they
143don't want them to be uh superintendent under CE committees, right? That's concerning because these are open meetings. They can be they're going to hear what they have to say. They're not saying they can't stay under the cloak of not people not knowing what they're saying. Of course, everybody will know what they're saying because they're open meetings that can be recorded and um our meetings are supposed to be recorded. So to me it fits better under the superintendence because then they have the protection man. We just don't have it with BCE and there could be a lot of problems with how those needs and those minutes read right now. >> But we've already formed a parent rental. >> So yeah, but we're going to have to push that back. Also, if we have a committee, we
144have to have set goals for it. So the goals that we put up well you have to have we set them up as standing committee. So they're going to have no animity at all. Those can be recorded. They're not going to be if you don't phrase if they want to be candid. They're a committee meeting where it's public and the public can come and people can record it. That's not going to create the animity that you want. You have to have their names on there. You have to have how they voted on there. If they voted, >> if it's a standing committee, they shouldn't be doing that. >> If you have the authority, which I will ask if you do, to establish a student voice committee or a parental voice committee, if you have the
145power to do that, would you do that? >> Um, yes. And we do it. >> So, we have a super group. when the superintendent goes around and meets with us. We also have principal uh student advisory groups. Um >> well, you just keep going around that this should be a superintendent committee, but we can't force a superintendent to committee. So, >> we certainly can force them to we do have the authority to say, "Hey, you need to have a student voice committee or a student advisory committee." And and I would say those committees in my opinion should represent our different areas. We have Columbus students who live up in Independent Village. We have Madison Township students who are in Madison Township. We have Broport students who are in Broport. We even have OED students and
146the committee as it was structured. We don't know were they all being represented because I think all those bigger communities should be represented in those committ question. They were because there were students from each school. Now, we tried to break it down by zip code. It was based on how they applied. But there were students representing from each school. That's how it was done because we could not and also how the students actually applied. So, we had to work multiple times. Mr. Smatters went out multiple times to the principles making sure we've got a diverse group of students. That way, it wasn't always the same students, the students that may not be on student council and encouraged those students to quietly. We wanted to make sure we tapped into those students. also to represent which
147then represents those communities maybe not specific by neighborhood which would have been ideal however it was best by school I I realize it was by school but that's not what I said what I said was by area zip code just because they went to one school doesn't mean that they were representing that all areas were represented and and hopefully they were I don't know but I'm just saying I think that would be a criteria But we can say that the superintendent needs to have that committee. We have that ability. Right. >> Right. We could direct that. But as we discussed earlier when we talked about general standards as they relate to board committees and administrative committees. If the board is directing an administrator to create a committee, likely that's going to be viewed as a
148board committee. So if if the thought process behind that would be an administrative committee is created so that OMA requirements are not applicable. The board directing that to happen likely is going to be a factor that would lend itself to that being viewed effectively as board can even call it an administrative >> and the board spoke. The board wants the board these to be board. No. So is this >> hold on is this all new? I mean are we just saying this now? No, those are our policy our current policies. >> I'm just saying like the resolution and all this discussion >> the resolutions resolution from 2024. >> Oh, okay. I I got really confused when I saw a resolution. I thought we were getting ready to try to do something here. >> This is
149kind of dragged out because we all don't agree. But the majority agrees, >> right? That's what I understand. >> I'm not Yeah, I'm not understanding what the debate when it's already been voted on. Well, the debate is that when we establish what how we put these board committees together before was in secret, not letting anybody know who the ne >> how was it in secret? >> The members of the students. No, >> they were by number. We didn't know who they Oh, you're saying to the public? It was redacted to the public. >> Yes. To the public. >> It was redacted to us, too, right? Didn't we just vote by number? >> We voted by saw everything. We had access to everything. >> Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. >> We had a spreadsheet. >> We had
150We did them by number. All the student applications were numbered, right? >> They were not. >> They were Huh. >> I said they were not your >> right. So there we didn't know who they were. That was secret. It was by number. That's what I meant actually. Okay. And that took the process process process. But um >> so we have some different things. We have some different >> John made a good point though like we have football teams and basketball teams and those players names are on their back. >> Yeah. I think we can identify that student directory information which would be exception to FEA under federal and state law. >> So if they're sitting on a committee that would be >> well so so certain information is designated by the board of student directory
151information right but then there's other information that's student record which is protected. Uh but again it sounds to me like what has happened and I may be wrong because I was not present for these things but based on this information it looks like the board has acted to designate these board committees. There may also be some administrative committees that are in play as well. As we talked about before any committee that is a committee of the board needs to comply with only which means that there's going to be that uh you know notice open to the public and keeping of minutes. the minutes have to be acceptable and unless there is a legal justification for redaction or something like that, right? Then then there would be limitations there in terms of redaction. But how the
152committee is structured in terms of what information is created would have an impact on any analysis there. But again, so a board created committee of this nature would would need to comply with OMA. An administrative committee that is focused on again parent or student feedback would would not. >> So we just need to we have a commit we have committees formed. We need to assign the committees and then we have to determine the correct way to do it now that it is a board committee, right? and um make sure that if we appoint students to the committee that we do that legally, lawfully, right? How about if I throw this out there? >> Would you be willing to sit down and write something up so we had it all outlined on how this will happen
153for open meetings act? What will be redacted? What will not be redacted? >> So we are in line with Furpa and have it all lined out before the next. >> That's exactly what we did, but I can rewrite what we did. >> I thought that's where FURPA came in and that's why the names weren't, but the not meeting notices were done. There may have been some disconnect with meeting minutes with who was there to get those, but outside of that, the meeting notices were put out. >> Yeah. Well, and and again, I can't I guess that's where >> I can't So, if you if you requested and were provided legal advice in terms of how to process that obviously that I mean that would have been before my time here, so I can't speak to
154the legal advice you may or may not have been provided at that time. Um and and obviously having not seen the document either, right? Certainly a board committee could implement practices where there's a limitation on the records created and generated by the committee, right? Or like practices of the committee would be to use student numbers or something. I I don't know. I don't know what practices were implemented to be able to speak to >> uh the appropriateness of those practices. But yeah, >> I don't think just to make sure it's clear why we did have to um we as the board at the time when we voted majority did wanted to OSBA has showed this is a best practice especially where there's a disconnect like I was talking about between the students certain people in
155the community I'll say just like that and the schools. So this was the way for the board at the top to change that culture because nothing's going to change until you take it from the top down right. So that was the goal was to go in there even though the Supa is doing what he's doing but this was our opportunity to hear directly from them and then also talking about advocacy things like that that it wasn't and that's why there was a president and vice president just for that role just for them to practice governance because that's what we saw in the model at the Oba conference that's where that came into play so it was no more than that not that we were trying to duplicate what um superintendent had or anyone else but
156it was more so for us to hear firsthand and we all reported out. Now, as far as students coming to a 7:00 meeting with with activities, that did not happen. That is sure. Now, we've had other groups come. Yes. And then with the parent side, we never got there. We were preparing to, but that just didn't happen. >> So, can I clarify because it seems like Furpa is just this broad over overly used word. So, if a student is participating in a student advisory committee, that's not a student record. I mean, that's not a that's not a is it? Well, it could depend, not necessarily, but what is and is not a student record depends on the content of the record that's created, right? And whether FUPA could be or 3319321 at the state level
157could be used as a justification for redacting would depend on the record in question, right? It wouldn't be a blanket application. Not everything's an educational record. >> Again, some of that information could be directory information. So to the extent that the student in question has not opted out of directory information and the request being made is not a request for profitmaking planner activity, it could potentially be released in. So it would depend on the request being made. And again, I just want to be clear, it's not a problem to have board committees of this nature. It's not a problem to have administrative committees of this nature. It's not a problem to have both, right? And it's not a problem to establish them in the way that the you know the board sees fit for the
158board committees, the administration for the administrative committees. What is just important is to ensure that depending on how they've been established that any legal obligations associated with that are are then applied. >> So for this purpose majority is voted I can provide what we did do if that would help. And then I think in this instance since the board has voted on this as a majority this would be an opportunity we would engage with legal counsel to review what we did do and then tell us how it should be done so we are in compliance. Is that what I'm hearing? >> Yep. Correct. >> I think that would be um good and also to look at our policies u you know which policy aligns best with that committee >> or we need to change the
159policy >> B or BCS um which one would align best with that um and then maybe you know like if somebody comes with the reporting is that the meeting sound like if we change it and make it more definite that it's >> it could still be right. That's why I just want to review when we did it. We proposed it to legal counsel first to see how we could do it and then we did it that way. So that's all I can say. I'll give you what we've got. We can review it again to make sure we're what and to address Miss Walsh's concerns. If we need to revise policy, if it needs to go with another policy, whatever. The board majority voted for these two committees. So, we just need to make sure it
160works. That's it. >> And I would like to see I I wasn't a part of this legal council >> thing. So, did they provide something in writing? >> I'll go back. I'm pretty sure it was present. >> I'm going to get I'm going to put it out and get it to everything because what I have is >> I don't know if we have a certain written thing. I know they've presented just like when we did the edge trust. Same thing. There was a whole presentation on how we do it. Same thing. We did the same thing with this committee or at least the questions were asked. It could have been through our admin on how for them to set this up whereas I don't recall having a specific conversation but once it was voted upon
161it we will pass it back over to admin like we do. We don't we're not in the dayto-day. We're not setting up our own committees per se. We're working with the people who are paid 9 to5 to do that because we're at our other job. We're at our job. That's my advice. I'll have >> not just throwing it out there. >> You hear what I said? >> No. To the prosecutor's office. >> Yeah. I mean, look, we can ask 10 different lawyers the same question. I know. So >> I mean at the end of the day ultimately you know if you guys and and again I can't >> we have a motion on the floor in a second. >> Um to the extent that you would like me to review it I would be happy
162to. Please do let me know though for certain so I can make sure that if there is something you're >> if it's okay I will go to the prosecutor's office first and then I can go to Miss Megan. Is that okay with everybody? I I would like to have Nathan just look at himself. >> Is that the point? >> And that's not on our thing. >> They never said we were doing it. We said we were going to do it when it was applicable. Oh my lord. I am not even voting. I'm leaving. >> IT'S PART OF THE REVISED CODE. IT IS STATUTE. YOU DON'T NEED A STANDING AUTHORIZATION to do it. I >> I I Hi, we are very glued by Mac. >> Yes, you're right. And then you got to be everybody says
163no. I don't know. I hear it. >> I don't know. It just works with me. Everyone asked me that. And then I use Out Fabulous.