June 16, 2025 - Special Board Meeting

001Test. Test. Check. One, two. One, two. testing. All right, it is 6:47 p.m. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nationy and justice for all. All right. On to item two. Roll call. Mr. Kersner here. One second. Mrs. Dober here. Mr. Bower here. Mrs. Gray here. And Mrs. Walsh here. All are present and accounted for. On to item three, treasure prom. Um, it is recommended to accept Mrs. Dberger as treasur prom for this board meeting. So move or second. Yeah, I I make the motion to Yep. So you'll second by me. All right. So I have motion by myself, Mr. Bower, seconded by Mrs. Any discussion? Um, is it off subject, but because of the timeliness of it, um, is there is

002it possible to turn the closed caption on our live feed? Is it usually not on? You said the live captioning is not working on the live feed. There's no captioning. Oh, okay. And we And are we recording the meeting? Yeah. Or is it just It says unavailable. I didn't know if it was turned off. As long as it's on for the public, it doesn't matter. I don't need to watch it here. Obviously, I just thought it was saying it was unavailable. Yeah, it's showing. Thank you. You're good. It's working. Yes. Okay. Any other discussion? All right. Hearing none on to um roll call. Uh Mr. Kersner. I Mrs. Doberger. Unfortunately, I don't Yes. I Mr. Bower. I Mrs. Gray. Hi. And Mrs. Walsh. I All right, motion passes. So, I ask just you guys go

003uh bear with me if we do have a lot of discussion. Just go a little slower. Um I don't do this all the time. So, if I need you to repeat something or slow down, just bear with me so I can make sure I capture your information appropriately to get to the treasurer so we can vote on the meeting minutes. Thank you. Um I have one other item. If you don't mind, I'll just insert it here. We to have our um board doc's agenda immediately after the meeting reflecting all the notes that the treasur is putting in. So, it's becoming again becoming a de facto meeting minutes that's not approved. So, people might see things that they think Latoya said but she didn't or I said but I didn't because he's taking notes and they're

004going live under a meeting minutes. So if you go to our meeting minutes directly after a meeting, it's gonna and not Yeah. our meeting agenda directly after a meeting, it looks like minutes. And sometimes that gets us in trouble because it might not be 100% accurate and the community seeing it right off before we approve it. Yeah, we need to move on to adoption of meeting agenda. Okay. On to item B. Um adoption of meeting agenda. So move Second, couple second. Are you ready? Sorry. Yes, I'm ready. Okay. So, I just got this today, by the way, but um during the meeting, first off, there's two uh this that was sitting here when I got here has two that are first reads. I don't know. We never weren't attached to our last meeting um to

005the first group and the last meeting JFC K and IGB was Can we one second? I'm so sorry. Can you repeat what your concern was, Miss Walshark and had it add it to the meeting minutes? You said there were two policies that are in the packet that are first read. Can you list those again, please? She mentioned IGB LA and JF CK. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And Libby just pointed out that the one was there I GLA but JFK was not That's correct. Yeah. IGB was the one I believe you brought up last meeting that has the end of July. The other one also has an end of July um date as well. July 1. July. Yeah, sorry. End of June. July 1. We haven't had a first read. Are we required to have first

006read? I've not seen this. So um well, we can discuss this when we get to to the board agenda or to the um board policy review. You talking about JFC? Yes. Yeah, I don't think the caption captured everything that you said. Could you say it again, please? Thank you. So, I was just going to say we can when we get to discussion on on board policy review, I think we can discuss that um for item JFC and then also IGBLA. All right. And so those are the only two policies that we'll be doing a second read on or the one will be a first read, right? Because when you look at the agenda, when I came in here, I looked at the agenda on boards and it has all the policies attached to it, right?

007So are we are you saying we're voting on all of them? No. No. No. At the last meeting, we said that we were only going to look at the ones that were required to be approved by July 1st. So, the file attachment to the agenda has all of them. So, can we correct that and just um take the file attachment off? Say that we're doing the first read. We're doing the secondary on the LGB. Thank you. I g that's the promotion of the parent involvement and are we required again I'm going to ask again are we required to do a first read? I thought we were but yeah I think we are. Is there a reason, Kathy, you would not want a first read today? Okay. Is there a reason you would not want a

008first read today? I would want to do a first read today. No. But what they're asking, what we're asking now according to this is to do a first and approve the policy. That's what the agenda say. So you're seeking clarification. She's seeking clarification on whether or not we need to have a first read and Libbyy's looking at that right now. Thank you. I mean, we've always done that. So, I always figured that it was just a a law that it was a rule that we had to do that. We always do that. And I'm also concerned like I would want to do a first read and not approve it because the superintendent is not here to answer any questions about the policies. So to approve a policy without being able to ask him questions on

009if it's best for the district is concerning to me. Policies introduced and recommended to the board should not should not be adopted until a subsequent meeting in order to permit further study and provide opportunity for interested parties to react. However, the board may adopt policies at the first meeting they are presented to address emergency conditions or special events. And which policy are you? That's policy B as in boy as in Frank. We'll need to then there um we'll need to then hold another special meeting before the end of July. Before the end of June. Sorry. End of June. I'm sorry it's been a long day. Before the end of June. Um then for this this policy. So we can do so Kathy what you're saying then is this the first read of JFCK second read

010of IGBLA? Yes. So what I would say is that we modify the agenda to read that um the adoption well um subject to board policy second reading take off the file attachment that's not what we're doing and call out the policy IGA yes that one um parental involve promoting parental involvement and that we add number subject three board policy review first read for the J um JF CK use of electronic communication equipment by students. All right. Sorry. You're you're going to need to restate that one second. So, you asked to modify the agenda to remove all the attachments minus the um IGB one. Correct. I just want to make sure I get this in chunks confirming if you miss. Yes. So, one I mean number two would be changed to the Yes. We're going to

011modify and then we would add number all attachments except for IGB and then mark JFC as a first read. Correct. Yes. Yes. And that would that would end up being item number three under board items. Good catch Kathy. Thank you. When you're ready, do you mind just rereading the motion? We need a second. So the motion would be to accept the agenda with the added changes. Correct. Call or you want me to reread I just can you just reread it one more time? So the agenda now will be as follows. That um under item C Item C2 will be the second read in vote for um IGBLA and then item C3 will be a first read for JFCK removing the remaining policy since we identified uh now that those are not due um by the

012July 1 deadline. So so that is what we've concurred with. So we have item C2 now to mark IGBLA as a second read and then item C3 will now be the first read for JFC. All right. Thank you. If we you guys ready for roll call? Roll call, please. All right, Mr. Kersner. Just to clarify, um we we are amending the original motion and we don't need a second to do that. Correct. We're just ch we're removing the agenda. So my understanding was that we remove things all the time. So that's what we've done but in the past but if I can I cannot confirm or deny right now without doing I know after we adopt it that it takes us twothirds majority. I don't know what it takes prior to adoption. So just clarifying

013that's what we're doing. Uh I no I don't now I'm confused with I don't understand what you're saying. I'm sorry. Okay. So if we had adopted the agenda and then we wanted to change it that requires four out of five of us to do that. I don't know what happens. I I always thought there was a motion in a second. That doesn't right. Yeah. We didn't um adopt we did not we just adopted the agenda. Then we would make discussions to pull things out. So she has to pull out the attachments and then we just moved one item down that was already a part of the attachments and just renamed it first read. So I didn't know I don't know what that requires because those items were already there. It just separates them into a

014separate bucket still under the same agenda item being C for board items. So I could definitely look it up. I would just need a few minutes to answer that appropriately. But from what I understand, um, since those items were already there, it's not truly like adding anything. It's just redefining or putting it in in a in a different bucket. That's the best way I can explain it. But if I'm wrong, I I don't know. So, was your concern, Mr. Kersner, that we're changing a special meeting agenda? Um, no. My concern was whether or not we needed a second. It looks like generally um an agenda can be modified um by majority vote prior to adoption. So, I think what she's saying is correct. Um, as far as the this being a special meeting, um, I

015don't think we're really I don't think we're not adding anything to it. So, I'm comfortable with it. Correct. within the confines. It's the same information. We just brief appropriated it. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, um, back to roll call, please. Mr. Kushner, I. Mr. Bower, I. Miss Gray. Hi, Miss Walsh. Hi, Mr. Alberger. I motion passes. Yes. And I just confirmed it. In Ohio, it is. All right. Thank you, Lenny. Okay, on to on to our meeting. Item C, uh board items, boardmanship training. Um I'd like to welcome Mrs. Christine Robbins. Um she's going to be providing our boardmanship training uh for this evening. Um Mrs. Robbins is from the Ohio School Boards Association. Thank you for coming tonight. I don't think is she on because I don't hear her in the speaker. Is there

016a button for you to push? Okay. Speak again. All right. Can you hear me now better? All right. Very good. All right. So, thank you again for um having me here on behalf of the Ohio School Boards Association. Um it's good to take time for professional development. For some of you, it may be a refresher. Um, for others might be some new information, but it's a chance to level set. Um, you've completed a school year. Um, as you begin to prepare for the next school year, it's a chance to kind of level set and to talk about governance and to also um talk about roles and responsibilities. And we'll be talking a lot about um high functioning teams. So, um, before we get started, um, I did, uh, pass out, I think everybody got a

017a copy of a packet that has the slides, so you'll have those to review. I also, my style is very informal, so as we go along, it would be better if this is more of a discussion, and if you ask questions along the way, if I don't know the answer, I will get the answer for you. Um, but I wanted to start with introductions. um if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself and tell me how long you've been on the board of education and what's your why. Why did you choose to run for the board of education here in Groport? So, who'd like to start? All right, I'll start. Um Seth Bard. I've been on the board for uh three and a half years now. Um and the reason why I uh ran for the board

018um so I have kids in the district. Um, but I I actually got involved um through some of our parent committees um early on u when we were looking at um possibly building u new facilities for our schools. And uh one thing led to another and I I saw u some of the needs within the in the district and wanted to um to help out and support um the kids and and the teachers in the district. So that's why I ran. Okay. Thank you, Libby Gray. Um I've been this is 12 year. Um, originally I uh decided to run for school board was the I have accounting and finance background and our district was borrowing from future tax dollars and um we were only having around $45,000 in our bank account at any given time.

019That was my main goal was to make sure we got ourselves in. Okay. Thank you, Libby. So, I'll go next. Um, I'm in my five and a half year mark with a long break in between. I was on the board back in the early 2000s. Um, I got on um after observing um different building attempts that I wasn't fond of and really that was I think my most driving first factor was to to see if we couldn't get building plans that um I thought would make more sense and also um wanted to see what we could do about student safety and outcomes. Um basically I kind of committed to never doing this again but I was I was really going to be upset if we ended up with a mega 1500 student middle school on

020no Vixby. So that really drove me to not want to set it out anymore. All right. Thank you or Kathy. Yeah, I'm Kathy Walsh. Um I been on the board. This is my um sixth year for fifth year actually. Uh, I ran because I also did not like having a school in Novix Road area. I really wanted to see more community schools. Our community in some of our areas. They need the students need more available to them. And I thought we could work with parks and reccks. Um, and I also was not I have several family members who are attending nephews, great nephews, nieces, and there's just a lot of safety concerns that they are experiencing kids going same families going to different schools when they're the same age and that kind of stuff just

021wasn't something I thought was good. So, just trying to make some change, make it better for the students. It's all about the students. Y Okay. Thank you, Latoya. I just need a second. Thank you, ma'am. Um, my name is Latoy Dberger. I've been on the board since my um, well, fifth say, well, yeah, fifth year of fifth year because I am I was born. I was brought in on the um, 2020 as the appointed and then ran. Um, I want to get involved with the schools, one the safety and I have children in the district and the kids in my neighborhood and definitely some two sons with special needs and gifted and talented. So looking at that and wanted to be a part of helping the district get where we needed to be academically as

022well as safety concerns and of course newer buildings with some of our buildings being pretty outdated. um my girls attend the school that is about 100 plus years old at this point. Um so wanting to be a part of that change and uh to see how it could support further the teachers on a larger scale just from outside of just the parent level. Okay. Thank you. Well, um I served on the Westerville board of education for two terms, so eight years. Um so I too have been in your seat. I chose to run for the board of education in Westerville. I grew up there. Um, Westerville has always been 52 square miles. A lot of people don't realize that. They think Westerville schools is Westerville proper. Um, when my father moved us there, there were

023maybe 15,000 people in the community and today there are almost 15,000 students in a school district. So, it's certainly become more and more populated. Saw a lot of change in the school district. Um, at the time I was the director, executive director of leadership Westerville. And I would hear a lot in the community that, you know, the board was not being transparent. The board was not communicating. The community didn't know what was going on. Levies were constantly being put on the ballot. So, I thought I could bring a historical perspective as well as um my involvement in the community to the board. And what I quickly learned, I'm sure as as some of you have or are is that a school district is much more complex than simply stepping onto the board of education and

024making change. Um there's so much that needs to be addressed related to um legal issues to policy um and just funding the way a school district works. So um but I you know I did learn quite a bit and um went through the process of uh working harder to be a good board member, working harder to be a member of a team. That doesn't mean we always agree, but recognizing that we are indeed a team and we needed to figure out a way to work with one another for the benefit of the students as Kathy said. So, um I'm gonna skip over this little activity just to to uh in the interest of time, but just for tonight, if you'd be willing to just be present to participate, to share airspace, respect and value differences

025that you have, differences of opinion, I believe that makes us stronger if handled in a respectful fashion. Be open-minded, share your knowledge and your experiences, and listen to understand. So, as we look at the role of governance, um we are looking at a 30,000 foot view. Um governance is different than day-to-day operations of a district. And oftent times the public misinterprets the role of the board of education. I had people come up to me immediately after I won and wanted me to change their daughter's um bus stop. Not my job. I could look into it certainly and I could make the connections, but you know, again, a lot of people think because you sit on the board, you have an office in the district, you're paid a six-f figureure salary, you have the ability to

026make changes um on a day-to-day basis, but essentially um the role of the board is to stay at that governance level, stay at the governance mindset. So um primary role governance just as a reminder um dealing with the system of policies and regulations and ethical guidelines practices that are used to hold the board and the administration accountable again for the benefit of all district stakeholders. So the parents, the students, community members, people who have had children go through the school, alumni um and so forth. So, it's important to know that according to the Ohio Revised Code, you have essentially five duties. The first is to employ and evaluate a superintendent. The second is to employ and evaluate a treasurer. Then to approve the annual budget and appropriations, provide needed, safe, and appropriate facilities, and provide

027necessary finances for the district's operation. That's it. That's according to the Ohio Revised Code. And so that can help you stay grounded in terms of whether or not you're kind of waiting into territory that may be the responsibility of the superintendent and the treasurer. So as we look at your role as a board member, um you are policy maker. So you are responsible for ensuring that your policies are up to date. You are looking at that a little bit this evening. Have that discussion. um that is a key function of the board of education. And when I joined the board, I first met with the superintendent and said, you know, I really want to be a good board member. So, what can I do? And he gave me two pieces of advice. The first was

028to ask a lot of questions. There's always another side to the story. Sometimes there's three sides to the story. Ask questions before you make assumptions. And the second piece of advice was look at the policy. So, if you have a question, someone approaches you in the community, go to your policy manual and look to see what the policy says. Now, policies are meant to be changed certainly um with the majority of the board supporting that and hopefully the support of your superintendent and treasurer, but go to policy and that will help you in terms of answering questions. You also, we mentioned hiring and evaluation of the superintendent and treasurer. So, you have two employees. That was another misinterpretation. Um when I first became uh the member a member of the board um I had people

029come to me and want coaches be to be fired, teachers to be fired and thought that I would have had the authority to do that and I do not. Um I am responsible for two employees, the superintendent and the treasurer as an entity. The board is an entity, not me as an individual. And so therefore their responsibility is for following hiring practices and guidances according to policy when they hire the teachers and the staff and that's their responsibility. You also serve as key communicators. So communicating with the public, communicating um in your community with one another and making sure that you're being clear and concise in your communications. and you serve as chief advisors and th that's advisors to the superintendent to the treasurer on community attitudes. So imagine most of you if not all

030of you have full-time employment or other things that you do on a day-to-day basis. This is not your full-time job that you're out in the community and so you hear things in terms of what's going on in the community, questions that people have. So it's important for you to be able to share that back with the superintendent and the treasurer. So when we talk about governanceoriented questions, this also helped me as we were going through the process of um board meetings. I also did not want to um to come across as if we weren't having discussions because it's it's an important reminder that your board meeting is the meeting of the board in public. It's not a public meeting. Public's welcome to come here. We know all about the sunshine law. We know all about

031the open meetings act. But you are actually having a meeting as required of the board in public. And that's where you deliberate and you debate and you make decisions related to items on the agenda. So what helped me is as we were making decisions and as things were being brought to our attention some of these questions that I have listed um is the decision one that supports our vision, mission and values. Um do you have a strategic plan that's current? So if you do, then is the decision that's about to be made, does it align with your strategic plan and your goals? Does it make sense for the most students possible? Um does it make good strong financial sense? Um will your community support the decision? Do you have the resources to make the decision

032pay off? And have you done the due diligence? So those are the type of governanceoriented questions that as a board of education you are responsible for. for asking yourself and asking one another before making decisions. So, um, again, one of the things that, you know, I went to the board meetings and I observed the board and I had heard different things about how the board wasn't transparent or didn't respect the community. And I wanted to see that for myself. I wanted to see if that truly was the case. And what I found is that it was pretty much um there were times where things were not discussed in public. And there are certainly times when you're going to go just move forward and vote. You know, you're you're adopting the agenda, right? So, unless there's

033any issue with the agenda, you're going to vote. You're not going to have a big debate or discussion. But there are other times when there are key issues like putting a levy on the ballot um or, you know, other key redistricting. in our um our our school district, we had a lot of conversation around realignment and redistricting that you need to demonstrate as a board member that you're having these conversations with one another publicly and we'll talk about having disagreements in a respectful, healthy way. That's okay. Um but you're demonstrating that you're doing your due diligence. and other questions that you may want to ask as you're moving toward making a decision. You know, things about timeline, what are the other options? Certainly, we would ask our superintendent to bring us options and to recommend

034one that he felt with his leadership team and with the treasurer was in the best interest of the district. Um, but we would also consider, you know, make sure that we let people know that we were considering other options. Um, levy for example. Um, another story I would share is when I first joined the board, I was elected um, and that night in November of 2005 and our levy went down in flames. So, it was congratulations, you're on the board of education, you've got a real financial situation you're going to have to be dealing with. So, when we began to meet about what are we going to do next? Are we going to put another levy on the ballot? What type of levy levy? What makes most sense? I wanted to explore a combination income

035tax and property tax levy and a fellow board member of mine shut me down in public said we've already looked at that and I had to you know very respectfully say not while I was on the board. So if it's something that I would like to look at I think that we should bring all options forward. you may better understand it than I do, but I have the opportunity now that I'm on the board to ask for those types of things to be considered and to have those discussions with the other board members, with the superintendent, with the treasurer. So, um things like have you thought about other decisions that you need to make? You might make one decision and then it may uh lead to some unintended consequences. So, you really need to think

036that through. And then costs sometimes in terms of time, money, morale of just not doing anything. So these are the types of things that you need to think about as you're making decisions. Any comments or questions so far? Probably not new information, but maybe a good reminder um that this is where where you need to reside as a board at that 30,000 foot level. We also broke down in four major areas responsibilities of the board and responsibilities of the superintendent andor treasurer. So, when it comes to curriculum and instruction, while you may have, you know, many boards have former teachers um that serve on the board that that retired decided they wanted to still be involved in education and so maybe they have a vested interest or special interest in curriculum um and instruction and

037that's great and their expertise can be used. But as a board of education, the responsibilities are listed here are things like you're responsible for establishing an educational vision. Now certainly along with the superintendent and the superintendent's team um you're also responsible for adopting or changing programs as necessary again as recommended by the superintendent who is the educational expert and who is your CEO. Um review achievement data discuss messaging to the community and then ask for and use a lot of data in your key decision making. On the flip side, when you look at the superintendent's responsibility, the superintendent is going to be advising you as the educational expert um on the needs of the students, on the needs of the staff. I'm going to be providing leadership and support to you to help improve the

038way that the staff works with one another or u make other improvements for the community, for the students of the community in terms of student achievement. Um the superintendent's going to report to the community on the status of education within the district, assign all staff, so it's his responsibility or her responsibility to assign all staff to instructional requirements and then recommend and implement student assessments to the board. So does anything surprise you when you look at those differences and responsibilities? So if we move to human resources um then you have you know again kind of quickly look through this list that um you employ staff based on the recommendation of the superintendent. So the superintendent's going to bring forward oftentimes a cassette agenda that includes personnel items and whether it's someone who is being promoted

039or resigned or retired or terminated um that comes forward for your approval. um they are you would also be responsible for adopting policies. So sometimes again you know in smaller communities in particular board members want to get involved in the hiring of coaches or the hiring of teachers and that's not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to make sure policies are in place for human resource management to make sure that there's hiring practices that make sense. And then we mentioned earlier the um evaluation of the superintendent and the treasurer. There's nothing specifically described in the law in terms of how you go about that process. There are some standards that we'll review that I'm sure you're familiar with. Um but uh the the the law basically says or does say that you are required to do

040it on an annual basis. So once a year um whatever that looks like for you and that's a system you can create if you don't already have one. Um so then on the flip side, the superintendent is going to recommend employment um as we talked about or transfers or promotions or dismissal. Um the superintendent's responsible for effective management and supervision practices for all staff within the district. Serves as the board's liaison with staff. Um notify staff of board action. We used to do a board report immediately after board meetings. Um, we had a communications person who typically came to board meetings and would do kind of a high level board report. So that information got to staff before they read about it in the newspaper. Um, or read about it online, I should say. Um,

041and then develops the board with the board of staff and staff a systematic plan for evaluation. So again, that's typically in policy. And when it comes to budget and finance, um so the as a board it's your responsibility to establish priorities for fiscal management um of the district. So that's a key responsibility again along with the superintendent and the treasurer. You're going to be approving and adopting and monitoring an annual budget. Don't know if you get budget reports on a monthly or basis, but that's typically what's done. um making sure that you are providing leadership in securing uh support for uh for resources. So if there's a levy on the ballot, you know, whether you agreed or not that that levy should be put on the ballot once that decisions made, supporting the majority and

042the will of the board is a responsibility of individual board members. And then reviewing annual audit reports, making sure that um if there are any adjustments that need to be made that um that you know what those are and direct the superintendent or treasur to do that. So then you can kind of quickly read through the super or the treasures responsibilities. And while the superintendent is the CEO, the treasurer is the CFO. Um so you have someone who is an expert in school finance and that's as we said very complex. um they are going to provide you with updates. They're are going to prepare detailed budgets. They're going to act as a financial and legislative resource to the board of education. And then finally, we looked at collective bargaining. You know, differences between the board

043of education's roles and responsibility and the superintendent's responsibilities. So, um the board officially recognizes the bargaining units. um determines helps to determine district priorities when it comes to bargaining, establishing guidelines for negotiation, selecting the negotiator, whether you use an attorney or however you choose to to handle that and approve all contracts. So, um, some boards, you know, very very small towns, um, they may not have they may have a really good relationship with with their, um, with their association and they're able to sit down, you know, one or two board members with the superintendent and work through a contract. It's really just depends on the type of district that you're in. in a larger district like Westerville, um your district, I would imagine you would want to have somebody who is very well educated in

044collective bargaining. That's a whole art and science to itself. Um and oftentimes board the board is used um not at the negotiating table, but again at that high level um to to be able to be referred to and and to help guide the superintendent. Yeah. It depends on what you what your preference is. I mean, Thank you. Mike, this is great. No problem. Um, yes. And we had um two about the um whether she recommended the board members be a part of the negotiating team. So, this was the first year that we done that. We had it on both two board members. Okay. Yeah. And it just again we when I was on the board in Westerville um we wanted to try something new called interestbased bargaining and we had board members sitting at the

045table. it it was a longer process, but the intent was to put issues out and to define interests and um not we're not sure that it necessarily worked as well as we thought it might and so kind of moved back to the board was not at the table, but you know certainly the board was kept aware by the superintendent and by the labor attorney of what was going on and had input in the final decision. So, okay. All right. So, um board leadership roles. Um, again, important to remember that you have no individual authority. You just don't. Um, the board is an entity. It's a body of five. So, when someone approaches you in the grocery store or someone comes and sits with you when you're trying to watch your kid play basketball and asks

046you to tell the coach to give their kid more playing time, that's not you, you know, agreeing to do something like that. you do not have the authority to to agree to do that. What you can do is you can agree to bring it forward or you can talk to the individual and um say, "Have you spoken to the coach? Has your son spoken to the coach? Have you talked to the athletic director? Have you talked to the principal?" And the chain of command is what I'm getting at here. So that you refer and connect people to the right folks, if that makes sense. Um so the authority is granted to the board not individual school board members. You do have a board president who serves in a facilitation role. So um your vote or

047the weight of your vote Seth is no more than the weight of the other members votes but you have agreed to take a leadership role and to facilitate the meetings. And in some cases the board president and sometimes the vice president will meet with the superintendent and the treasur. In our case, that's what we did in planning for the board meetings and but while communicating with the other board members, making sure that everybody was in in the loop. So, it's important to make sure that you um entrust the day-to-day operations to the superintendent and the treasurer. Um and uh we also mentioned that um it's important to respect the will of the board. That can be tough if you disagree and you have some lively debates. Uh ultimately you are the the time to share

048these lively debates is at the board meeting and during your discussion time. Um once the will of the board you know you go through the process and and you the will of the board has been established then it's done and it's time to move on and to support the will of the board in the decisions that have been made. And that's being respectful of the process that's been established and and laid out there. you have an opportunity again to to try to persuade the board to your point of view during the board meetings, but going out and undermining the board decision is not going to leave you with a board that is deemed credible. Um, and it's important for for you to have those discussions and to recognize that's not very helpful to the board.

049And people are watching you. they can determine if you know if you are going to support one another, if you're going to have those healthy debates. Um, and it's going to impact the district ultimately. There's a lot of research that's been done about how the school board and the school board's behavior impacts student achievement. And that's kind of one of those things where you go, what, you know, we're at such a different level. But it's so true. and the way that staff perceive you and the way the students perceive you and the way that you work with one another. Doesn't mean you can't disagree. That's again in a healthy way, but you're ultimately um here to serve the greater good and you have an opportunity to make a decision as a board. Any questions about

050board leadership roles? Mr. Kushner, if you could turn your mic on, please. Thank you. Um what's the basis for the idea that um we only employ the superintendent and treasurer? Well, that's it's in the law as as one of the responsibilities of the board of education. I think I think one of the exceptions that I take to the OSBA is that and that is that they don't recognize the power of the board. We have the ability to hire administrators as we see fit to support the board. We have the ability to hire business director as we see uh fit. Um there's no law that says the superintendent has to be full-time. I think we have a lot more management power than the OSBA. I haven't seen a lot from the OSBA that teaches us how

051to make drastic changes in failing districts. I've seen a lot that seems that says go along and um get along. And so I don't think that's I know it's not true that we can only hire the superintendent and treasurer. The things that are in the in the code in the Ohio Revised Code are were the six things that I reviewed. Right. So you certainly approve you certainly approve other hires that are brought forward by the superintendent, but they when it comes to hiring directly, the only that you hire directly participate in the interviewing process, participate in the evaluation process, and who report to you as a board or the superintendent. So, you didn't know that a business director can there can be business directors, but if you in the revised code again, it specifically talks

052about the superintendent, treasurer. Some districts do have business directors. So, revisit code tells us that we can have a business director report directly to the board. If I I would have to look for sure. I'm not going to quote the code on the business director piece. I'm familiar with the superintendent and treasurer and and and in a case and if and I have looked into this extensively in a there are cases where you have administrators that do not cooperate with boards, right? Or they make it very difficult for a board to do their job. And so in those cases like maybe you have a hard time getting information, maybe you are are are stiff armed and kept at length. I I believe if you really research it, you will will with the board, for instance,

053could assign a secretary to themselves and to the business director and and create tools that would help them be better informed when you don't have some of the resources that maybe um should be provided to you. So, honestly, I I think if you really dug in, you will find that that that there we have a little more hiring capabilities than you believe you're presenting here. That's not my understanding. But you know, again, what we're trying to focus on is that the board stays at the governance level. If you have issues with other administrators, then certainly you would hold the superintendent or the treasurer accountable for dealing with those issues. Right. And then the other thing is I I understand um once a decision is made um supporting the decision, but there are also exceptions. And

054then there's also the of our freedom of speech. So in the instance that we think, you know, let's say it's a middle school for 1500 kids and we adamantly or I adamantly believe that that harms our students because it's 1500 middle schoolers in one building and it create it will create safety issues and harm. Um then uh for me as an elected official, it would be irresponsible for me to just sit silently while this thing comes to a and and hear me clearly. I'm not suggesting that you sit silently. The time to debate is when you're having these conversations at a board meeting in public. Once a decision is made, a decision is made. You can say whatever you would like to. It's going to ultimately hurt the board and the credibility of the board

055to not support the board. It undermines what the board has decided, the majority of the board has decided, but you can certainly say whatever you want to say. Um, best practice is you debate publicly in this forum. Yeah. Um, passionately share your opinion. Um, ultimately when it comes down to a vote, if the votes 41 or 3-1, right, and you're on in that one, then um, you know, 41 or uh yeah 32 if you're in that in the minority then you know that's the decision's been made. Well then the other the other flip side of that is when I was on the board before um the people creating the plan were very practical and very outspoken about the need for unanimous support to pass. So I would say the dissension might hurt the board, but

056it might help the board because they real if if a board goes in knowing that not collaborating and not getting buy in results in hurting the board, dysfunction of the board. Um then maybe there is b long-term benefit to that I guess is all I'm saying. So basically I'm saying I think there is a and a time for dissension beyond the board meeting because the campaign goes beyond the board meeting and I guess it's just like we don't I don't lay down my rights to campaign against something when I become a board member. No, that's certainly your prerogative. Certainly your prerogative. Um best practice as we've said is this is where where you have the debate and the discussion and the dissension and then the decisions made and that's the decision the board is moving

057forward with and the district is. So hope you are understanding what I'm trying to say there is I would never say that you have to vote 50 for every single decision that comes through. That's not healthy either. I mean I it's healthy to be able to bring different perspectives. you're all elected individually. Um so you're all going to bring different perspectives and share those perspectives um openly. It becomes problematic for boards when they don't have that discussion in public and there's wrote votes and so that you know people then make the comments like they're not being transparent or they're having conversations not in public and you have to be very cautious about that because your your meetings in public and that's why the open meetings act exists. That's why there's sunshine laws. Um, so that

058the public can hear your perspectives and and help you get to the understand how you got to the conclusion that you got to. Does that make sense? Like to input a little something just um I think what John was referring to was section 3319.03 business manager. Is that correct, John? I couldn't hear anything you said. Oh, I'm sorry. I said I thought you were referring to section 3319.03 03 business manager and a business manager can be hired and report directly to Yes, I I acknowledge that if you choose to do that. I just want to make sure I understood what he Yeah, this district does not have a business manager. Is that correct? You have a superintendent and a treasurer? No. Is that correct? You have a business manager that that reports to the board

059directly. No, no, we have we never mind. Okay. Well, this is I don't think I don't know that he could because he's not licensed or degreed. So, again, it depends upon the district and the district's needs. Um, I am not an attorney, so I'm not going to share anything beyond what I'm familiar with. And we do have a legal hotline that I can share with you if you want some more specifics related to that. I don't want to get you or me in trouble um in regard to that. So, um, other questions or comments? I'd just like to say that when you're talking about once the vote is cast, um, we have seen that as an issue and it has hurt the board's credibility. So maybe that's something you can can talk about as a

060team. I mean, and you're not trying to limit someone's freedom of speech certainly, but you know, about ways that how is it hurting I don't think it's any of your intent to hurt the district and if something is hurting the district then you need to have those conversations and figure out a way um that you can work together for the benefit of the district and the students. So um we want to turn to characteristics of um high functioning teams. So we want to start with individuals in terms of your own individual board member characteristics. So, um, based on what OSBA has done through 75 years of being, um, an association and working with hundreds and hundreds of schoolboard members across the state, plus working with national associations and and other school board members across the

061country. Um, if you are able to assess high functioning boards, these are five key competencies that we would focus on and have you ask yourself these questions. And the first is competence. So, we're talking about experience and knowledge and ability and attitude and behavior. And the question here is for you to ask yourself as a board member, am I willing and able to understand and abide by district policy? So, spend some time getting familiar with policy, policy that's already in place, making sure you're abiding by district policy. Am I willing and able to ask for and use evidence to make decisions and communicate professionally and fairly with members of the public on behalf of the district? So, if I were to, we'll go back to this and then we might want to let it rest.

062But if I were to vote no on something and the majority of the board voted yes and I was asked why I voted no on what I thought, I could certainly share, you know, these were my thoughts. I brought them to the board. The decision was made to go this direction. That's the direction we're going to move. If you have questions, come to the board meetings, ask the superintendent, you know, listen to the listen to the or look at the board minutes, watch the recordings of the board meetings, and that can help explain where we are. Um, but I'm, you know, again, made the decision that I pled my case and this is the direction we're going to go. So, I'm going to throw myself behind that and help support the board to make things

063better for the district. Um, so then it comes to collaboration. And so then an question to ask yourself here is as a board member, am I willing and able to work as a member of the board team and the district leadership team and with committee members when assigned in ways that move the group consensus and decisions in the best interest of the students. That's what I think you can all say that you have in common. You're here for the students. I mean, I heard everyone say that's that's why I'm doing this. I want what's in the best interest of the district and for the students, all students of the district. So, it has to come back to that. So, making sure that you're willing to work with others in a way that will help move

064the district forward. Um, the third is commitment. So, you've all demonstrated you're committed to this community, committed to this district by virtue of the fact you ran or you were appointed to the board of education. you're spending hours and hours of your time preparing for board meetings, going to out into the community, um being visible at district events to the extent you can do that. Um and are you willing to share representation? What we did in Westerville, there are many of us who were involved in civic groups like um you know, Rotary or the Lions Club or Kuanas or the Chamber of Commerce and we just kind of shared those responsibilities to make sure that there was a presence there at these meetings. Um, one of the one of the the uh criticisms that we

065received was that we were only out and about when there was a levy on the ballot. So, you know, you are always campaigning on behalf of the district. And by campaigning, I'm not talking about necessarily a political campaign, but you're always out there presenting the district in the best light possible. You've moved from three stars in your report card to three and a half. That's something to celebrate and to be able to be out there and communicating that, you know, to the board that you were able to to achieve that or to the community. Um, cooperation. So, as a board member, are you willing and able to work with your board colleagues in discussions that are related to policy and decision making? Are you able to cast votes based on evidence and discussions that you

066had um with the board and work with your board colleagues and supporting the will of the board? We've talked about that. Um, and then communication. Uh, as a board member, are you willing and able to exchange ideas, information, and and your thoughts in a way that's going to um help others consider your perspective? Are you willing to respond um in a timely manner? Are you willing to listen? I think one of the key skills in terms of communication is to listen to understand. Most people listen with intent to reply. So if you're having a heated discussion or a lively discussion, I would say rather than thinking, okay, how am I going to respond to that? I need to really listen to understand and to try to understand where the other person is coming from and

067keep an open mind. And you may change your mind, you may not, but listening is an important component of communication. Keeping confidential um conversations, that's something that can be tough um and can be challenging. Uh I there was a situation where we were um in executive session and there were a couple of staff members in executive session with us and by the time we were dealing with a personnel situation. By the time I got home, my husband had already heard about the discussion because someone left the meeting and decided to share that information with someone who shared it with someone else who shared it with somebody else. And I mean I'm a five minute drive away from the board of education offices. So that again is going to diminish your credibility as a board. Just

068make sure you keep information confidential and you clarify when it it is intended to be confidential. So um you know again not saying don't express your opinion. Um what we're talking about is think about these key competencies and how you can improve in a way that you can work with one another respectfully and make decisions in the best interest of the of the district. Not just get along. That's really not the message I'm here to send. I want you to think about think about a team. We're going to talk a little bit about teams. And I'm trying to be sensitive to your time, too. So, I will keep moving along here. Um, so we know it when we see it. You know, you know, when when you're on a great team, you know what that's

069like. Um, when you're on a team that's not working, you can figure that out too pretty quickly. So, if you think about the best team you've ever been on, it doesn't have to be, you know, professional. Maybe it was an athletic team, maybe it was some other type of team in another organization. Think about what are the characteristics that made that team the best team. Can you think about that or share ideas related to characteristics of the best team you've ever served on? Um, cooperation. Cooperation. That's something we just talked about. What does it mean to cooperate as a member of the board of education to you or to anyone? Listen. Listening. Openmindedness. Okay. I changed my opinion multiple times because there's a lot of information that I just simply didn't know when I went

070into a situation where I thought I'm going to go this direction and and I listened and was able to to hear that there were some things that didn't make sense to me. Um so when we're talking about teamwork um it's a choice. So um you can choose to come together in productive ways and that takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of work um and it takes courage and discipline and emotional energy as well. So um that can sometimes falter but in order to come together even driven teams who try to to work together as a team can often fall apart because it does take a lot of effort and hard work to do that. Um much of what I'm going to be talking about related to teamwork comes from Patrick Lenion's

071book. It's called the five dysfunctions of a team written some time ago. I'd rather flip it on a positive. you know what makes a highly functioning team. Um, but he talks about teamwork being a choice that I'm gonna come to this meeting and I'm going to choose to be part of this team. Again, I may not agree with everything you think or do or say, but I'm going to be part of this team because I am part of this team. Um, that it's a strategic decision that you need to invest time and maintain focus. Um, and the good news is that even if you are not quite where you want to be, you can always get back on track if you're all willing to do that. Um, so, um, think about, you know, some of

072the questions that you might ask yourself and some of them, you know, you may be saying, "Yeah, we're we do that." But, um, others you might maybe pause and think about whether or not you need to change your approach. So, questions like, "Do team members openly and readily disclose their opinions? Are you all comfortable with that at board meetings with one another? Are team meetings productive? Are they compelling? Um, does the team come to decisions quickly and and avoid getting bogged down by consensus? Not necessarily a bad thing, but are you able to get a decision made without really getting yourself bogged down? Um, do you sacrifice your own interest for the good of the team? again, you know, you're you're working as a board and as a single entity and um if you are

073able to do these things um and work with one another, it's going to help get results in the end and benefit the students of the district. So, um Lion offers this pyramid. I'm not sure what happened. This has to do with with the uh with our our issues with technology a little earlier, but at the very foundation of um this pyramid concept is trust. So the ability to trust one another and um when you if there is a lack of trust, trust takes, you know, at times a long time to build, but you can lose it in an instant and it's really hard to get it back unless you're absolutely willing to just say, "Okay, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna try this again." But when there is a lack of trust, um, typically you

074would experience, um, people would be reluctant to be vulnerable with one another. Um, and what I'm talking about is being willing to to admit mistakes or to acknowledge weaknesses or to say, you know, I don't know the answer to that. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole and pretend that I am. But, you know, being willing to be vulnerable with one another. Um, and what trust looks like. Um, and you can jump in in terms of what it looks like to you. But to me, it's where I feel valued. I feel respected. I feel like I'm listened to. Even if someone doesn't agree with me, they took the time to listen and to understand. I don't feel marginalized. And, you know, again, I'm able to say, "Well, I was

075wrong or I'm, you know, I'm thinking a little bit differently based on our conversation." So, um, you have to be able to trust one another, uh, fundamentally, um, and be comfortable with being vulnerable with one another and open with one another and being able to have those conversations in public, in a comfortable way, in a professional way. So then if you don't have a solid foundation of trust, it's uh, difficult to um to then get to the next level. Um, but again, one of the one of my favorite quotes here from Ernest Hem Hemingway is the best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them. Um, we're all approaching, we all approach trust differently, I think. You know, my tendency is I'm going to trust you until there's a reason

076for me not to. Other people based on their experiences. It's really based on your life experience and situations you've dealt with. You may say, "You need to prove yourself to me before I can trust you." But think about ways that you can work with one another to build trust with one another to show respect. Um, and that's going to filter down into the district. People see you behaving in a way that you're able to trust one another and work with one another, then you're role modeling that for the district and for staff and for students as well. Um, if it's difficult to deal with conflict in a healthy way if you don't have trust. So, we're talking about healthy conflict here. Um, and that's where you're able to, um, share, you know, your perspective. We

077were in a session this morning, a leadership development session that dealt with, um, conflict modes, you know, styles of conflict. And when is appropriate to use the different styles of conflict? And ultimately the question was, when you think of the word conflict, what what comes to mind? If I put that word out there, what do you think about those that are for and those that are against? So, some that are for, some that are against. That's kind of winners, some kind of losers kind of thing. Ultimately, conflicts and opportunity. And I learned years ago, this is one of the pieces of advice that I've taken with me for many, many years, was if you approach conflict with curiosity, that goes a long way toward resolving the conflict instead of just no, you know, you're wrong.

078This is my way or the highway. Help me understand why you think the way you think, help me understand your point of view. So um you want diverse opinions, you want diverse perspectives, and ultimately you can come up with better solutions that way. Um there are five conflict management styles if you're interested in further professional development. Um and I'm sure Latoya, with your experience in the HR world, you know about these instruments, but it was helpful for us to go through a process of figuring out how we all dealt with conflict. what was my dominating style or my natural style compared to others? And then there are ways that you can work with other people knowing that somebody is highly assertive and low in terms of cooperiveness. Um it there are ways for me to

079be able to reach that person um in order to to deal with conflict. So focus on issues. Um it's not personal. Sometimes that's hard. I have trouble with that because I think, you know, I'm pouring my heart out for this community. I'm I'm taking time away from my family. I grew up here. I want the school district to be successful. Um, so at times things that were said in public or to me by other board members felt personal, but you had to go back and focus on the issues. Um, focus on the district priorities. I don't know if you have a strategic plan or certain goals in place. That's one way to bring you back to what's important to the board as you're making decisions. Um, make sure you disagree in a respectful way. I

080mean, tone of voice, body language, all of that. Um, when I would observe board meetings, when I was deciding whether I would run, um, I understood that in terms of public participation, the board did not engage. And part of the reason for that was they might not have every piece of information they needed to and that you know people didn't quite understand that. Um how they did engage however was with eye rolling with body language with huffing and puffing and that was just a bad look for the board. Um, so making sure that you, you know, you're listening to other people in a way that, um, it can be received as respectful. And then when decisions are made, I mean, this kind of goes back to leave it at the table. And, um, you know,

081it may come back around at some point, but you make a decision, you disagree respectfully, leave it at the table. Oftentimes, boards develop um, ground rules or norms. Um, you have a code. Do you have a code of civility or something in your We have board norms because I saw something I was looking at and I I thought I read it was a code of civility in your policies but maybe I was looking at a different policy. No, it's our board norms and we do it at every organizational meeting and the board members were um have the opportunity to sign it. Okay. So that's just a way to help. Everybody contributes to that typically um in terms of developing them and supporting them and if you can't then you need to figure out, you know,

082what the conflict is and and and go from there. But it helps to center the board. Um, so like one of our norms was we're not going to be texting each other during a board meeting. I mean, that's just not a good look unless there's some kind of an emergency and you can always take a timeout or a recess, but um, you know, turn your phones off unless you're expecting some type of an emergency call. Um but those are the kinds of things that oftentimes are helpful in dealing with conflict and how you're going to deal with conflict. Uh then commitment, you know, conflict, healthy conflict ultimately leads to commitment and that's to move forward with an agreed upon plan. U making sure that you support decisions that are made if you are able to

083do so. Um but it's important for you to feel that you are heard and um that's a place to start if uh If you're dealing with conflict that's unable to be resolved is to think about again trust. How are we dealing conflict? Are we understanding one another? Are we listening to understand? But that back and forth is what's going to help everyone feel and believe that their opinions and their ideas have been heard and seriously considered. Um that's a due diligence making sure that no stone is left unturned. So, um, when you commit to team decisions, just, you know, focus again, trying to link it back to priorities, trying to get buy in as much as you can. Um, not, you know, I had a board member that ran, I think it was in my

084last couple of years, and she ran um, she was very clear that she was running to vote no on everything and even said that during the campaign. And you know, you may vote no on some things, but voting no on adopting the minutes, unless there's a real solid reason to do that, you're simply being a contrarian. So, that's not helpful um to the board. But, you know, be clear on um what you are attempting to do in order to to serve the district. And you may not get buy in on everything, but think about that. I mean, we don't expect we expect different behavior from from the students and from our staff. This then ultimately leads to accountability and holding one another accountable. So, if you do have norms and you're all willing to support

085those norms, holding one another accountable and the team accountable to um those norms, making sure that you're committed to a clear plan of action, that you're focused, that you're driven, that you're trying to u make sure that you are not exhibiting behaviors that are going to ultimately hurt the team. It's a choice. You know, you can choose. I can come in upset to a board meeting and choose to act out at the board meeting. how is that helping the board and the district with the board and the district's business um and moving forward. How's that helping the students? So again, it's a choice in terms of of what we do in terms of behavior. And then you're focused on results hopefully. I mean ultimately what you would like to to be able to do. Well,

086I was going to share this exercise. not that we're going to do it, but um for in an organization where I worked, we we went through this process because our team was struggling and it wasn't a public body, but it was a team for a university and it was it was a really tough time. So, we did we had a retreat and we all had to answer these questions or complete these statements to the others around the table. It really helps the team when you and it really hurts the team when you. So for me, you know, I someone said it really helps the team when you ask clarifying questions. You're really good about asking questions. It really hurts the team when you get defensive. And of course, I got defensive right away. I don't

087get defensive, but I mean, it's like putting that mirror up and saying, "What am I doing to contribute to the success of this team?" So figuring out a way to be respectful, I think ultimately is is what we're saying here. And then results, you know, you want to make sure that um you are reviewing performance data. Um there's something called um an autopsy without blame. So if there's a failure, um if for example, you know, the levy fails, so how why did that fail? We're not going to blame anybody. We're going to look at reasons why we believe the levy failed and what the message was and maybe it was the type of levy. But let's take a look at that and figure out what we need to do differently and um making sure that

088you are um on the same page in terms of district and team goals is very helpful. So um what questions or comments do you have related to these these are supposed to be high functioning teams or the characteristics of high functioning teams based on research that's been done. Does that make sense to you in your other worlds? you know, as far as working with other people and it's not always easy, for sure. It's there's going to be times where you mess up and you say something and then, you know, and I've done that where I've had to go back to another board member and say, you know what, my tone of voice was really inappropriate. I was sarcastic. I'm sorry. That was not my intent. And I know that that had a negative impact on

089the tone of our meeting. So, you know, make, you know, give yourself some grace, but ultimately, um, think about that you work with one another and trust one another um in order to get the work done. So, what what questions or comments do do you have for me? Mr. Kersner, if you could turn your mic on, please. Thank you. I I really wish we had our audio video updated by now. Um I think I think the tr I think you've hit on the issues that really are the roots of our problems and and I'll just say um my experience this time around has been drastically different than my first time did and I'm just basing this on trust. I'm not trying to point fingers. Sure. When I got here, no invite to orientation. Um we

090haven't had real uh any kind of real team building any kind of kind of annual um goal setting together where we really work together like I've seen before a policy governance we had a we we did a lot better job of working together and training together I'd say 20 years ago than what I see now. Um, so, uh, not coming in not really feeling included. Um, wanting to do policy governance and getting and and I'm just putting it out there, but one having one policy committee meeting and then having it basically disbanded because I don't know for me from my perspective, we didn't want to do the work and we wanted to hand the control over to somebody else. So, um, I'm not I'm not sitting on a foundation of trust or collaboration. What what

091would help that to change for you? Um I for me it's it's about setting policy and having outcomes. So for me having meaningful policy committees would be a great start and having now we've talked about this right now getting down into the nuts and bolts of it and how we team build how we do uh create collaboration and actually execute. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Anyone else? Obviously trust is the is the biggest issue. How how do we how do we overcome that as a board? I wish I had a magic answer to that. Um I think you know if you have an opportunity to um spend a work session together and and talk being open and talk about some of the things that you agree upon um and that could help

092build trust with one another that would be helpful. Um it is again one of those things that it's easy to easy to lose and hard to regain at times. Um for me there was one particular board member where I just felt that there was um not a trusting relationship and it took me scheduling time with that board member to have a conversation and to say let's start fresh um and let's figure out a way that we can work with one another to move the district forward and then you know trust communication and trust go hand in hand and if you are making a commitment to be trust trustworthy, then your actions are going to speak louder than your words. So, making sure that your actions demonstrate that, you know, you want to regain trust as

093a board. I'm going to pile on here, too, and say our board's never been perfect. While we're on it, we always had uh we had some pretty crazy board members and some pretty crazy division. But even in the midst of that in the past there was collaboration on the agendas. There was communication even if you didn't really particularly care for each other. Uh that um I mean direct more you know because from my understanding the creating of the agenda is an administrative function. We're not we're not talking about policy. So there was a lot more or there was really good communication from the board president to the other four members to ensure that month to month that their their goals and their ideas were being incorporated into the agenda. So maybe that's something that can

094can be improved in terms of how you communicate with one another outside of the board meetings, you know, and you have to be cautious about that. There's a fine line there. You're not canvasing individuals to determine where they stand on positions, but you know, if I as a As a new board member, it was important for me to meet with people individually to try to better understand, you know, things that were coming before us. Not to say, "Here's what I'm thinking in terms of here's how I'm going to vote." It's helped me understand where this came from. Help me understand the policy and just trying to get information from those who have been around and who may have more knowledge than I do on this situation. But it's not impossible. It's not impossible. um you

095know and when we're at a time where fresh starts are good in the summertime as you head into a new a new school year. So um focusing on things like um you know the fact that you you do want to engage in in healthy conflict that you do want to be able to commit to decisions once a decision has been made and hold one another accountable and focus on achievement. And um you know the your mission. I don't know if you include your mission on your agenda or not, but a lot of boards will include their mission. You know, every student, every lesson, every day. Um, if you have a vision, that's included. Values, you require one another to stand by your values or you you have beliefs I believe that are, you know, is

096this what you're doing? You're believing. All of you should believe that all of you are valuable and you are and your perspectives are valuable and you're you're there to serve. You're there to support, you're there to inspire um and um support the beliefs of the district by by your behavior, by your actions, by the way you interact with one another. I was just going to say going back to um collaboration, you know, I I do feel that that we have we I have tried um to this past, you know, the past six months, um work with all board members. I mean, the boardmanship training that we're doing right now, um I believe was your idea, Mr. Kersner. You had requested this training. Um I've implemented agendas changes that Kathy has brought to my attention as

097well. Um, so certainly, you know, I I think that we're all trying to to respect one another. I just I don't I'm not sure with collaboration, Mr. Kushner. What else? Was there is there other ideas that you had or No, I would I wasn't again I wasn't trying to point fingers at you at all. I'm I'm just saying that my past experience was there was um a verbal review of what we're coming up on. So the president would call and talk to me or talk to or when I was president I would talk to the other four and I'd say here's what we're going through or here's here's what's on the agenda. Do you have anything that you want on the agenda? And you know like and again this is not me you know shame

098on you at all but like oh this is the first read right I never see it again like okay we agree you're gonna have this is going to be your first read Mr. Ker and then I don't ever see the item again. So, and and that's of course on me as well because I could certainly push and say, "Hey, you forgot to put this on." But then when I do that, I feel like if I have to ask for the second read, I'm probably wasting my time, right? So, I don't So, I just think it's something we can from I'm just comparing my past experience. Sure. to this experience and the past experience even though we had all kinds of discord before and I would say lower um skill than we have here now. Definitely

099definitely much lower skill sets than we have here today. Um the the comm the communication on that and strategic planning meetings and policy governance meetings at high levels um those kind of things just really help. So this is this is a great And I I appreciate it. I'm just saying next step, you know, would be how, you know, like with a strategic planning meeting where we agree together on goals and people see what my goals are versus all the other board members goals. I'm just I I there's obviously, and that's why we're here. There's obviously a great opportunity to build trust as best we can, collaborate and and hear each other. I would just say that um that you know my time as president as well with what I had learned we would send out

100and I think the it's good to hear that you said a verbal review didn't know that was what the need was but I think also with all of us being professionals kind of the phone conversations are hard especially during the day then family after plus board commitment so a lot of things are done you know via email or mail preference per you know whatever the board members are are looking for. Um in addition to when we talk about trust, you know, having that these that the conversations that are had are not shared outside because if we talk about trust, then it should not ever appear that we can hear it somewhere else. And that we could all agree to and sign. Um, I think that would be a really good step. So, if it's not

101those board norms or just civility between each other and having that as a contract so we're not, you know, maybe interpreting one person's belief one way or vice versa and then it's not in a way um, put out to the community or through community channels as if it's something else because it's it just appears that way in all honesty. So, I mean, I'm happy to hear about the verbal review. I do I'm not sure how that can be done or accomplished, but I think there's probably a way. And I don't and everyone doesn't text, everyone doesn't do phone. We everyone doesn't use the school district email. So, our board does have those challenges as well. Everyone has their own preference of communication or certain members. So, then that's also kind of hard when you have

102full-time job and a family and this portion um of your work. And if it's easier to email, still getting the same information out, you know, that is one way, but then that's still not the best preference or best course of action for maybe board members to feel that they're valued. So, that's fair to say. Um, or find a happy medium with that. That may be another next step for us. Um, and then when it comes to I would like to just highlight one win. Um, whether you know for me at least what I see I think it was brought up at our I want to the end of last year, maybe maybe this year when we had our teaching department where we talked about that moving of our of our stars. So regardless of what

103we're doing here um as a board and as much as there may be discord or an appearance of discord or there's just whatever our our team is still moving forward and our team that we have in place has moved that needle and even in the presentation with the data that you talked about we should show has been shared like that's been the best rating in the good 10 plus years. So that shows a lot of growth and a lot of work in our district that we are moving forward and I think us really sitting back and say okay even despite of this like we're not holding hand kumaya sandbox. However our district state report card says this like that's phenomenal and that is leaps and bounds to where we were when I first got on

104the board. I believe there was a piece that went out um around 2021 that you know we were failing and there's like on our faces and stuff like that. But here we are today with a 3.5 in in year, you know, from 2020 to 2025. That's a that's a nice movement for a school district of our size with the challenges and the financial challenges we've had. So I think that want to take that opportunity and support the win there and you know thank our administration, thank our teachers for the hard work and the parents even working with their students at home for us achieve that milestone and to see that growth over time and I always go back and look at that board meeting and pull that presentation for myself as a reminder of the

105why and to show our progression and I think we talked a lot about what's wrong but we don't really celebrate the wins collectively whether we agree or not that they're there and it's it's the proof is there that we're doing something right and I think if we can figure out okay how do we get this and then how we can we spread that across everything so thanks Well, and it sounds like just listening to to to you speak. Those of you have have said maybe this could be like the next step. And um you could do a board self assessment, you know, um we could help you with that. You could set some board goals, whether it's look, you know, taking another look at the norms. What do you agree on? Um what can you

106change so that all of you could can agree? And if I can say one more thing, it's not that we have not um had like strategic planning retreats and things. We have done those things. Hence is where where we are academically and it wasn't with this particular board but a portion of this board where we have had those conversations and gotten where we are. Um and this board does take policy and governance very very seriously where we have had the majority of the board has opted in for it to be a part of the full board's responsibility versus the subcommittee. So that has not been addressed. It's just that the minority it has not been agreed upon. It was majority concurred with it being you know housing the board how it has been primarily and

107then focus on community focus on working with the parents focus on being in the buildings with the students and that is what the work we have done and that was that's where the committees or the additional work that the board has been doing where the policy has been handled here um and have that discussion here at the board meeting. So well and some boards choose to do that you I think some boards may have a policy committee but it a lot of boards address it as um it's like a committee of the whole so that it's all five the board members and you stay at that that governance level. So um but I it's you know did you have something? Yeah, I was just going to say that I think that it all has to

108do with trust with our board, but also has to do with respect and um not only respecting one another, but also respecting our administration and how our words are used during board meetings towards them and it it shows out in the community. I mean, we have students come to us and tell us this is ridiculous. So, they see it. Yeah. Level set. I mean, it's an opportunity to kind of step back and say, "Okay, you know, and if you do, again, you go through I was going to touch on the superintendent evaluation standards, the treasur evaluation standards." Um, but that's where everything kind of comes into alignment. Um, if you do have strategic priorities or goals, you have your vision, your mission. Um but there are standards that were set by the state for the

109superintendent um and the treasurer as well. And that's where you know if if there are any concerns about performance that's where they're addressed and they're not surprises. These are conversations that should take place throughout the course of the year. And I just want to say another big win is when we worked together and uh celebrated well not celebrated but did a really good job working together on the treasurer's evaluation instrument. Um made the instrument work how we needed it work and we've got the superintendent coming up. So I think we've got a good rhythm there. Um where maybe before it wasn't as tight but I think this past time was very very very tight and um didn't get much like after we had our final review. I think we were in a good place at

110least. anything different. But I wanted to point that out. That was another really good win that we had where we where we did collaborate more together. Well, then you could, you know, you can do it. You know, it's just a matter of matter matter of applying it. The board of education standards. So, these are some things and and I won't go through all of the the um individual slides related to them, but if you're interested in doing a self assessment that might help you set some goals and move you forward in terms of how you work with one another. Um it it they focus on responsible school district governance, communication of and commitment to high expectations, creation of district-wide conditions for student and staff success, district accountability in all areas and engagement of all community

111members. So when I've worked with boards who have done the self- assessment and you can see where the gaps are, I mean you may have some board members that'll say, you know, we rate really high in this one area and you may have one or two who say, I don't think so. And that opens up the conversation as to, you know, why does there seem to be a gap? Um, and let's figure out a way to fix that and to set some then set some goals. Um, like we were talking about a little bit earlier. Maybe you do want to to have a strategic planning retreat or you want to do some additional professional development or you want to set some specific board goals um for how you work with one another as a board.

112And there's some examples in here and that's something that we'd certainly um be able to help you with. But you know, if you're going to evaluate other folks, it's good to evaluate yourself and kind of set that set that example as well. Um just looking at these like these are really good, especially the engagement of all community members. I think we do a really good job. We have our Golden Cruisers Club. We So you don't just have to be a parent. There's a way that they connect. We connect with all of our community. At least it seems that way. That's another really good when of course we can expand that and do better um with other groups in the community but I think it's very like when I've talked to other school districts they don't

113necessarily have those type of things that we have where they really engage that and then our alumni and those kind of pieces which I think that's a really good thing we can celebrate as well. Yeah. Well, and this is kind of how this is a matrix that we've used where it has those board standards and then you don't have to fill in the whole thing, but set one or two goals. You know, one of the districts I worked with, they did not necessarily kind of spread out and um spread the uh you know, responsibilities among one another to to attend different community events and to be visible and to be out there. And so they wanted to create a district event calendar or a community event calendar. And some, you know, naturally if you have

114kids in the district or grandkids or whatever, you may be the one that's at the Friday night football games or at the band rehearsals or whatever. But it's a way to say, "Okay, we just want to be visible out in the community spreading the good news and the things that we're doing. um listening, you know, for for concerns that are being expressed and in order to move the district forward. And I don't remember, we did this before, but I don't remember. Were you on the board then? I I know we did a board self-plugging assessment. We did that once and then we also done more than one retreat, which is where we are now with the five years. We're due to kind of well I think we're due just in general with our new board

115member just to kind of go over but we've done this we've also done a strategic planning I we've done at least at least se several last year and this year we have not but the other years we have and we can definitely see the fruit of that our communications are better our academics are are up and I think we even had a percentage even our safety um where we were looking at incidents we've seen improvement there as well so those were kind of the top three areas, the academic safety and comms and we were definitely on path to being fiscally responsible. Um, but it was just those other three areas. So, but that's definitely great metrics to take back. Um, and maybe one as we as we discussed the agenda adding those items. I know

116we have these other oneoffs, you know, looking at other presentations, but maybe as we're getting, you know, the next meeting or two because school starts in August, ensure we get those and get that to leadership as we roll into next year. Great. So, one other issue you talked about communication. Um, one thing that I don't use is use the board computer and that was basically my request when I came on found out there was a survey that's put out was never released. Taxpayers paid for, but we refused to release it. And the basis for that was some emails between employees that were viewed and those that whatever was in that was used to say we're not releasing the survey which is my this is my my describing. Okay. So I asked Okay. So we've got

117people that can go into emails um as far as I know without board approval or action and they can just do what they want with them and I have a computer that I don't really have control of, right? So, what are my safeguards? And I never got that answered. So, therefore, I just put an auto I put an auto response in and said, I'm not using this anymore. Answer my question. So, that was to me a very early litmus test, right, of trust and and that's still for me unressed. And that does create communication issues with me because honestly um I observed what I felt was unfair attacks on other board members and I didn't trust uh wholeheartedly not to be hurt by administration um based on some things that happened early on. So that

118was just me putting a shield over myself going how do I know I can trust you to do the my data is protected. Communication between me and attorneys are protected. Give me some guidelines. Give me some some show me something. And I got pretty much as far as I can see just the door. And I never got a response to that. And and every time you send me an email, you get basically I'm asking that same question again. It's like I'm not using this email. Here's why. And I was honestly that is a real trust issue with me because I think I've seen other people try to do good things and then have it used against them. And so I have a little bit of distrust there, a lot of distrust there. And I wanted

119that answer. I wanted to know when can an IT guy dig? What if what if a leader doesn't like what I said or what I'm doing or whatever? Where's my where's my protection. What are the guidelines? When can they engage? You know, obviously public records is one thing, right? But just being able to peruse to a goal, maybe you don't want something to happen or that kind of thing. When can you filter through? When can you go search? What are my privacy rights? Um that's, you know, what's my expectation of privacy when I send an email? And um so I'm not it's not like I want Yahoo to be my goto board email, but I'm stuck in a conundrum. And how could that be resolved ultimately? I mean, is that if that's something that you

120still feel like you need some kind of response to maybe work together with the board president and see if there's a way to to get a response if there's polic you know, in place. That would be a question I would ask. Is there something you can point me to that helps me understand? Right. Policy. Yeah, that's kind of what I would expect. Here's our policy or hey, great point. You don't really have We don't really have a strong policy. Yeah. That talks about when we could or basically explain to me and also it's kind of a records request, which is another area where I feel there's no trust because we failed because I response if they feel like it. That's my personal belief. I can go back to January from when I first got here

121and it's ad hoc and a lot of times it's just frustrating responses. But my very some of my very base questions from the as soon as I found out about this or other issues um even just simple expense requests going back from my very first days member never answered. So I said, "Hey, tell me how you ended up in an employes's email to dis to say that this this survey should not be revealed." How does that happen? And there's no, you know, whether I'm asking as a board member or member of the public, whatever, you know, in this case, a board member, um, that's just a matter of decent respect to explain to me how you So, you found this and this is the story for why this happened. But, you know, show me some

122nuts and bolts. You know, I'm not always going to trust the first thing I hear. If I if I just like everybody else, if my meter goes over here and I say that doesn't sound right to me or I want to know more, um, that's just been unusual for me this time around. typically uh be invited in there be a sit down there be explanations it's just different it's really really different and that's from Jump Street yeah that's good for you to share so your other board members can hear that other I do you know like with communication so I have a hearing disability and even at this meeting there's long long paragraphs fast talking. I'm not going to follow it. I just can't. I also was told recently though that the loop system that

123I've been asking for for five years that we had a vendor offer to put it in at no charge, months ago. Still don't have that. So the trust is just not there. The communication I don't believe they want that. uh the majority, some people, the administration, whoever um you know, and then there's the thing of seconding motions. I think all motions should be seconded so that they can be discussed. You don't have to vote for it, but I was at the last meeting when I was out of the room taking a call regarding a loved one who's in the hospital, there was a motion made and no second made. You know, that kind of stuff is There's no reason not to second a motion because you can discuss it and there's no part of a

124regular meeting where you can't have emotion. There's no part there's no area in there where you can't have emotion. Oh, you know, again, I think coming back to what are some of the concerns? You're starting to lay some concerns out there. um determining, you know, by the leadership of the board how you're going to be able to address those concerns and figure out a way to resolve them so you can all move forward as a team and regain trust and respect and communicate. But it's good. I mean, it's some it's good that you're sharing them because some people will get frustrated and just not even share them anymore. So, you want to try to make things better. So, you know, there may be a reason. I don't know all the details behind all of these

125things, I'm sure. But, um, having that discussion and making sure that you're you're getting answers and responses and and being able to communicate clearly even though sometimes you may not get the answer you want, that happens as well. All right. So um yeah, these are just you know the last thing would be just things to remember at a high level that you're an ongoing entity. Um as one board um it's important to keep the big picture in mind and you know that ultimately refers back to your mission. Um you have academics intention and mindset every student every lesson every day right in front of you during your board member or board meetings. Um, keeping that in mind as you make your decisions, acting in the best interest of the district as a whole. Um, you

126don't represent certain segments of the district, you represent the entire district. Do what you can to develop good working relationships. If you feel like you have some relationships that aren't that great, then kind of try to level set, see what you can do to make those improvement. And just be sure to ask good questions. That was great advice that was given to me as a new board member. Ask a lot of questions, refer to policy, and um you know, don't make assumptions as you move forward with your decisions. Other comments, questions for me? Just think about, you know, what commitments can we make? And we've been kind of talking about this. What what can we make as a board? What commitments can we make to improve how we work together as an effective team? Um

127and think about that. And you know, from there, go into maybe a board assessment, develop board goals that align with the standards and with your vision and mission and priorities for the district and hold one another accountable. And I'm happy to help. I you know if if I can answer you know I I will do my best from my own personal experience plus the experience I have with OSBA in terms of best practices and just trying to help you know we're just trying to help people move forward in a way that is going to help help unify them. um we're facing some, you know, inordinate changes that are coming along when it comes to funding that's going to add stress that's already to the stress that's already there. Um, and we'll be finding out more

128about that within the next few weeks. But it's it's a it's a difficult time that we're entering and it's best to try to do what you can to settle the other tensions that could be resolved and so that you can move forward in a united way. I will say if we spent more time on policy I think we would build trust and I think you all would be extremely pleasantly surprised at some of the things that are brought forward. Um I think we tend to just take the cookie cutter and not think about how we could really form this district. I think about we had to the one policy that we were reviewing together and that had to do with interpersonal relationships within the district that were harmful and um the first the first three

129policy options thrown out were very simplistic and the staff um contradicted this our leadership. Okay. And our leadership I would say had a naive view because the staff has been here so long. So they're like, well, you don't understand who this will affect. Oh, it's not going to affect many people currently in our employee. And then the staff like, oh yeah, this this this here's here's all the people that this affects. And so my thinking was, hey, and I think it was M Green State University has a very comprehensive policy that really digs in nuts and bolts, but it's not a five minute thing. It's not a five minute decision. It's not, oh, we can solve it tonight. What I felt and what I saw was oh well if it's not going to be if

130we can't do it just like that forget it it's not worth the effort. My from my perspective if we had done the homework we that would be just one example of comprehensive policies. We've agreed here that we know um there are dangerous places in our schools. Maybe it's the restrooms we've agreed on and we've we've kind of agreed on that but yet um not real comprehensive polic for um monitoring or other things that I think if we really focused on policy and policy governance, we would be surprised if we worked together how we could quickly address drugs, vaping, bullying, safety in the restrooms. A lot of things that we talk about, but we really haven't dug down to where the rubber meets the road. And when we look at this, we talk about accountability of

131the leadership. If everything being fed down to me from the leadership and we're just voting on it. I don't feel like I'm creating accountability. I'm not creating task condition and standards because we have specific understandings of some of the dangers and some of the things that could be done better. And uh so I think if we really took more time on policy, I think that is where we could see you know so much improvement, better safety, all kinds of good things coming. Thank you for that. Okay. I'd like to thank you for coming out. Well, thank you. I hope this has been helpful. I know we spent a lot on, you know, some of the soft skills and you're in a tough spot um, you know, as board of education members, but uh, thank you

132for your service. It takes a lot to put yourself out there and be willing to um you know serve in this capacity, a lot of time away from family and uh I'm confident that the skills that you have on this board, it's going to help move the district forward. So um do what you can to to improve and just keep one step at a time. You'll get there. Thank you so much. You left us with a lot to think about. So thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you. I appreciate everybody's time here tonight. This was great. Thank you. Thank you for allowing us. All right. Pull up the agenda real quick. Mr. President, just so we're all on the same page, I don't have access to board docs, so you will not see an immediate change

133in board docs where we separated and remove those attachments. made C2 the second I don't have access to make that change but just wanted to remind um everyone here that's where we are now on the agenda so hopefully you wrote it down but that is where we're going next. Thank you. So, we're on item C2, uh, second read of IGB and, um, a recommendation for approval of board policy. Move. I have Miss Grace first. And Miss Walsh, your second. You seconded. Okay. Mrs. Walsh is second. Got it. All right. On to discussion. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So, the discussion the policy um does not read the same as the most recent policy they sent us. It's different. There were some changes made um by the OSDA in their issue 21 June policy development and it said

134the policy miss can you back up just real quick? You stated that the policy does not read the same as the most policy sent to us and the update was on what date the um the date the 2025 issue 2.1 June policy development quarterly. So that um had a notation that they did change that um to to uh better reflect had been rei revised to mirror the expect exceptions in 33.3. No, I'm sorry. 3313.473F. Did I say that too fast? Are you Are you reading off revised code, please? The 3313 3313.473 F is that OC is that I assume it is OC. It it does appear. I just should adopt. It says district should adopt the revised policy sample. Um so that the one we have in front of us in our packet is similar,

135but there are some differences and I would um think that we should so the third paragraph they have that read out taken out. The one that starts this policy does not prohibit or limit that the careers in academic mentoring and counseling between teachers, students, and regular courses that the school day is deleted from the revised copy. And then um I'm sorry. Could could you please you lost me. Could you please give me a reference of where we're looking at the policy that we're looking at that's in our board packet? IGB LA. Yes. The third paragraph, third, thank you. Three is deleted out of the revised. Um and then after the number five, they add nothing in this policy requires disclosure or activity in violation of any court order, including any of the following. And that

136is now renumbered. Number six is numbered one. Number seven two and number eight three. And four and five are removed. I was trying to locate but I and you can see this. This is on board docs. If you look at that issue. Okay. I'm sorry. I only have one screen so I'm trying to keep up with what you're saying. My apologies. And I could I I think I can download this and send you all PDF. Well, I have it. I just don't have the screen up. So, I didn't set up a second screen tonight. I'm sorry. Open up the PDF from the mail. Um, if I could share my screen, I would, but I'm not sure I can do that. Um then uh they add a paragraph like yes paragraph after the remove number five.

137Nothing in this policy requires disclosure or activities in violation of specific requests for non-disclosures made pursuant to a criminal investigation or grand jury subpoena in which the student is the victim and a parent is the alleged perpetrator. Next paragraph. Nothing in this policy prohibits or prevents mandatory reporting under RC2151.421. And the next paragraph, nothing in this policy prohibits or limits the career, academic mentoring, and counseling between teachers and students in the regular course of the school day. Everything the same and I am going to attempt to send all of you to that. So, are you recommending we we table this one as well? Oh, we can't we have to Oh, we have Oh, we're going to be doing a second. We're going to be doing another meeting for the other one. So, I guess maybe

138before just with the changes they re I mean does make a difference does it really I mean we could always reconvene or before July first send it to you miss uh I'm sorry I can't hear you and I'm typing right now so I'll get right there with you in just one second. Okay. Okay. And I pulled it up. I was just um going to state that if we do need to, we can all we can still um can reconvene honor before Tuesday, July 1st if need be and do both at that time, especially if there are different things that we need to, you know, discuss further tonight that we're not ready for and then make any additional updates and if we also need to consult with um legal counsel or anything like that. So we

139still have till July 1st you know on or before just by looking just my opinion um that those two changes I don't have a problem if you wanted to Oh I see what you're saying adopt adopt the changes um the only thing that I will add is when I did our OSBA training um um recently downtown. Um I went to a class specifically about the uh um about the other policy. I'm sorry I'm getting off. Let me table what I started to say. I'm thinking of the cell phone use policy. Okay. Yeah, we're still IGB. Sorry. Sorry. No worries. And Miss Walsh, I did get the email, too. Thank you. And I concur with Libby. I did try to do a side by side. So for me, as far as discussion, if we do need

140to adopt or choose to um this evening, I'm okay with adopting the current changes unless someone has a motion to table if that's what we feel need to do as a group. Again, is my I'm only asking if we do that that we reconvene on or before July 1 to ensure we're on the date and not doing it as a what do they call it? like a um retroactive retroactive I I would prefer not to do retroactive if we can especially know as we have the the time to do that. So, I would just yield to my colleagues, but I do concur with you, Miss Gray, I'm okay with adopting the uh current changes, but if we do not, we want to table just to have more time and not or anyone feels rushed or

141anything like that as long as we can reconvene, you know, on or before Tuesday, July 1, that would be great. So, um, do we have a date yet for that meeting? Yeah, I was just about to ask if that is we're going to have to schedule another meeting before July 1st. If we could nail down a date tonight so I'm not trying to chase dates via email, that would be um greatly appreciated. So, um but Oh, go ahead. I was going to also ask, can you go back to that policy again, Miss Libby? Um I think it was BE was it BG? Um, for policies, is there anything that talks about the policy we could adopt the first meeting that are presented to address emergency conditions or special events or anything like that? The one

142that governs us for implementation. I just don't have my second screen up. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And and the USDA says that, you know, we can wave multiple readings in order before July 1. Yeah, I was just making sure it was in our policy. And that's what this says in their update in issue June 2.1. So we could do that. I was just making sure we were okay within that it was read. I that's what I was asking. Thanks. So I don't want to create any perception. I don't think we have anything exceptional emergency here. But at the same time, um it's unfortunate for one for this one policy to create another board member more board meeting all together. If we don't have um specific changes, we're going to have to for the cell phone anyways.

143So, okay, we might as well if everyone's in agreement, we just table we we hold a meeting for both policies. I would recommend that we postpone it. So then we have a day because if you table it, it doesn't necessarily have to be taken off the table. Apologies. Yeah. Um I agree with you. Wrong verbage on my on my behalf. Um but I agree with you that we would postpone. So Miss Walsh is making the motion to postpone the No, I'm not at this time making any motion. We don't have a date yet. So there's no way to make a motion. So we could come up with a date real quick. All right. So, let's come up with a date. All right. So, everyone get their calendars out. Correct me if I'm wrong while you

144think about your calendars. Um, we need to accept whatever changes uh to include the um whatever might have been left out of this and still have our first reading today. Correct. I think we've had a first read and I don't think we need to approve any changes until we actually go ahead and vote on it. If uh and I'm just putting out dates if you want to do another Monday, I can do the 23rd. It's fine. I can do the 23rd. And it would be a pretty quick meeting, right? I mean, we do have quite a few of the other policies, but well, the other the other ones we would do we can do in July. So, it just be I think or something like that. 20. I don't know. I don't remember how many.

145Oh, you're saying the 23rd a week from today. Gota I have an OSDA meeting that day, but what time are we thinking like seven or 6:30? And I mean I just want to if we're coming in and going out are we gonna have to you know what is the is it just to go over the policies on the 23rd is that what we're asking for the date for 23rd would be to for these two policies. Yeah. Yes. We would have discussion but it'll just be for these two policies or will it be out policies? Oh right. I was thinking it was just going to be these two. Yeah, that's going to be like what a five minute meeting. So, can we do I can do a seven o'clock then on the 23rd? 7 o'clock on

146the 23rd work with everyone. I'm good with that. Yes, sounds good. Thank you, John. I think so. I'm not looking at my work calendar right now. Sorry. I I will say yes. And also I'm still confused. Um could you clarify Libby? Did you say that we've already had a first read on Okay. All right. And then what about JFC? Has that had a first read? first read. Okay, that's our that's tonight. We added a C3 to the agenda to count as the first read for that policy. That's what I thought. Thank you. Yes. Okay. So, to recap, we're looking at Monday. Let me write this down real quick. So, I move that we postpone item two. What is it? C I'm sorry. C2. C2. adoption of um policy IGB until June 23rd, 2025, board of

147education special 7 p.m. and I will second. Okay. So, um, if we're making changes, do we need to read those changes as a first read tonight? Because our first read would not have included the changes that we're looking for and I don't have any idea. Okay. My motion will be amended to ex with the changes um recommended by the OSBA and that I read during this meeting and ed to all board members. Okay. So, um you are actually possibly moving that um the changes made be presented as our first read tonight. Correct. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Does that make sense? Otherwise, we'd be showing up to vote on something that we really didn't have a first read on. Or am I wrong? I don't know. I'm asking the same policy. It's the same. Same policy,

148just revision. Okay. Revised. Yeah. Excellent. However it works. I just I wanted to make sure we weren't Well, any of the stuff that we first read, we can have changes made. So, it's that just for us to read and then the public can look at them and then we can come back the second time and say, "Hey, we heard that this might not be good and that." Then we discuss it and debate it and make a decision. Right. Excellent. Thank you. I have questions before we go to alcohol just for discussion purposes. Um was wondering with that or do we want to make sure we have any of our suggestions and those changes so we all can read them in advance and discuss or we want to just come with our own revisions the day

149of to discuss because I think that always becomes a a a an area of concern. I just want to make sure we're clear on getting changes so we can look at the multiple revisions from the from the board so we can be prepared before we come and ask questions. Are we saying we're just going to make the revisions that day? I I don't think because it's policy, I don't think we can share them outside of here with more than one other person. Right. So if we got all your if each person would reach out to our treasurer and superintendent to make suggested revisions for whatever area. That way when it's posted on board docs, we can see those items to review prior to the meeting to be prepared. Right. So, so how does that work?

150That we make this recommendations to the superintendent. What if he doesn't agree with them? No, I'm saying that to put the revisions in the policy. Not Well, I'm not asking them to agree. It's just whatever we are the board is asking for. They're the ones that put the policy and update the policies, the superintendent and the treasurer. That's how it always has been with and they work either they work with Miola or OSBA to make those revisions that we've had and then shared them with us on board docs. So, are you saying you want to just put make just send them send them to be added to the agenda? So you're saying the superintendent would share them on board docs a recommendation? I'm saying that if there was a specific area of the policy that

151you have language that you would like to have changed, the person has been updating our policies as is someone in administration, whether it's the superintendent or the treasurer. My question is, are we just going to come with all of those just to discuss that day or are we going to be able to get those in advance so we can prepare for the discussion? That was my question. Well, I I'm still so confused. I apologize because I'm just not following because my thoughts were that if we have something we want to change that we bring it forth to the board and discuss it with the board. Yeah, this that would help with the discussion to the board. It's not for them to agree or disagree. It's just so we can I can have it in advance

152so I can review it and have my like have time. But you're just saying you would just bring it to the board that day and then we would then have to make those discussion have that make that decision on Monday. Is that what I'm hearing you say? That's what a first read does the opportunity to make points. These are the things that I feel like need to be addressed. Um, and then it gives us the second to be able to have done our research on those suggestions then be able to So what did that policy what policy did you say address the one about um the policies? You know you read it with the first and second read. Yeah. Well, that's policy BG. Oh, sorry. BS. Sorry. Are there are there any things with this

153policy that stand out right this moment that you maybe um have concerns about or think maybe something stands out where you think, hey, I'd like to options on the uh on the one that we're just looking at right now, the uh IGB. Is there a section where anybody's seeing something that right now that they or they've already seen where they think it could be worded better or we're missing something? I was. No, I just wanted to make sure if we did have anything, we were prepared. That's all I was asking. So, I didn't mean to cause any confusion. I just wanted to make sure that if we did like after you said on it again, if there was something else, we would get that timely versus the night of that's all. Yeah. And I I'm

154just lost on how you do that um without creating some kind of unintentional round robin. So I Right. And it wouldn't be that's why it would go to one person and then it would all be put into one document and then we would all see it at the same time on board doc. So it wouldn't be a roundroin where we would be right. No, but what my point would be and again I'm not I'm just offering my perspective, not any kind of legal opinion, but I know the superintendent can certainly reach out to all of us for dates and times and administrative things. But I think if we individually communicate to any one entity desired changes and then that goes back out to the rest of us, I think regardless of what touch point we've

155used for that, we might be on kind of a nice first time I heard that. All right, so Mrs. Walsh emailed us the revised changes to IGBLA. We've got a date Monday, July 23rd, 2025, 7 p.m. Did you get a second on that? Yes. I seconded it. Mrs. Scott. Yep. I have Mr. Miss Walsh with the motion. Mr. Bower as second and and do you mind just rereading? Sorry. I'm sorry. Yep. I y next time somebody else is treasure pro just let y'all know. So get ready. Um, the motion is u move to postpone C2, the adoption of board policy IGBLA until June 23rd, 2025 at 700 p.m. a special meeting with the changes that were read from OSBA's June uh policy policy review email that was also forwarded to all board members. Is that

156correct? Okay, on to roll call, please. Mr. Carner. Hi, Mr. Ballard. Hi, Miss Miss Gray. Hi, Miss Walsh. Hi, Miss Alger. I All right, motion passes. On to item C three. And this is just discussion. This is the Yes, this is the first breed of JF CK. Um, Yep. So, any discussion on item C3? Yes. All right. So, let's I think Mrs. Walsh, you you said first. Just go down the row. So, this number one, this is for the use of electronic communication equipment by students. And number one, limit student use of cell phones during the school day as much as possible. That's too arbitrary. Honestly, I don't think we should be allowing our students, unless they have a medical reason or um maybe they have an IEP that they have their hearing disability and

157they need it to help with that, we shouldn't allow cell phones in the schools. I've talked to teachers, multiple teachers that we need to get them out of the school. I talked to my daughter about because I'm like, you know, she's very protective. She wants her kids walk to school. She wants to be able to monitor I said, "Well, don't I thought she wanted cell phones." She goes, "No, they can have a watch. They can have another they can have they don't need a cell phone at school." No. Because she's a teacher, right? And she knows how detrimental they are. She um a high school educator and her husband's a elementary educator. So, number one, I'm I I don't like that. Plus, and if you're going to say that, you need to have some What

158does that mean? as much as possible. Right. And I would echo that what I started to say earlier was in our we we took uh I went to specific training at the OSBA meeting about this where multiple school districts showed their current policy. Dayton uh schools was the most um strict. Uh they suggested that but most of the districts had not done that. Dayton literally was taking the phones away as you came in the building and they had file they had pouches or something for them. But um as much as possible is very b vague I think we know that the phones are being used to a lot of times instigate bullying um taking appropriate pictures and um uh kind of doing the viralvious fight things. There's a lot of downsides obviously that's what this

159is recognizing but as much as possible is just very vague also um under item three this um no I'm sorry under the paragraph following item three it says that uh electronic communication devices may uh people who abuse this basically may have their phone or devices confiscated and I think There should be a scale or something that actually says may just means if I feel like taking it from you, I will. If I don't feel like taking it from you, I won't. May is just way too arbitrary. I think there should be maybe a first offense, second offense, and what it means, how if it's taken away, how will it be returned? Will it be returned in 30 days, 60 days only to a parent with something? I think I think we need to uh we

160need to drill down on this one. And um also the IEP, you know, I think uh that's another area where um the the system can be abused. Obviously, there are specific needs, you know, where an IEP may may require the use of electronics communications, but where is there an IEP where um the student needs a cell phone, you know, for for medical monitoring, that's certainly one thing, but um You know, we've I I have fields fielded specific complaints about kids who have IEPs getting away with beating up other kids because they have an IEP and so they have temper issues. So, I don't I don't want to see us create exceptions for IEPs where um they're they're abusing the process just because there's an IEP. We want to protect the students and look for their

161best interest. But, um I would is a little vague and and just leaves leaves too many holes based on hopefully what we're trying to accomplish. So for instance, the phones are only used between classes aren't used between classes. I'd like to see u more specifics. I I would certainly want to see that no cell phone will be active or used in uh private areas, you know, something along those lines as well. This is great. Sorry. Okay. So, um Ohio has their model policy. Could you say that again, please? Ohio has the model policy. Yeah. Um and I just forwarded a copy to everybody. Um, and it's basically is students are prohibited from using cell phones at all times. Then it gives the exception of the the um nothing in this policy prohibits a student from

162using a cell phone for the person purpose of documented in the students individual education program developed and then also student may use a cell phone to monitor or address health concerns. I just Yeah, it's not. Oh, it didn't go. It's not the attachment. I'm sorry. Let me get that here. So, I guess we don't know why this wouldn't be She's trying to She's trying to finish, Mr. Kersner. I'm sorry. She's going to resend with the attachment. She wasn't speaking and Olivia, I may need you to repeat as well when you once you're done with that, please. I can have your I know you had the Ohio model policy. You for a copy students are prohibited and then it mentioned something about the IEP if I'm not mistaken. I want to be sure. Okay. Thank you.

163I just concern but and it also gives out the discipline suggested disciplines um and they select which disciplines or all of them. Um, but I feel like this policy is that was presented to us is so vague that and I've had which I've talked to the board multiple times about, but I've met with the elementary students. I know the elementary is is just one um set of of students, but they have all said over and over and over and over again that the cell phones need to get out of the classroom. Yeah. And I I will echo that on pretty much every grade level, I have been surprised even the students say even the high school students say, "Hey, that would stink, but we need to do it." in general, they're saying, "Yep, we don't

164like it. We're not going to like it, but they I think they agree it needs to happen." So, is there I'm I'm confused and I don't know if anybody here would have any answer to this. Why would this model policy um that we're looking at the JFC vary so much from the state model policy? I I don't have an answer to that. We can always reach out to our our OSBA which is our policy provider but if I recall with even the there were sometimes very vague policies which allowed us as the board to come up with adding any additional things we wish so this is just like the main things and then of course there's things that we can implement so I think that's it's a shell how I took this one for me

165but we can always reach out to OSBA that is our policy provider to find out their why so it's our understanding this. It was presented to us as it sits from the OSBA. I don't know if it's specifically from OSBA or other members of OSBA that created a shell to send out, but that is our policy provider. Yeah, I got that. I don't know who who in OSBA it was a combination of association members as well as the organization as a whole. The only other thing I see that I would I would like to see is when when there's an exception for um IEPs or medical that we reserve the right to provide um uh equipment that would provide that. In other words, if we have an IEP or if you have a medical condition

166and it says um you know you're monitoring your blood sugar by XYZ and we have a method that would perhaps do that that would not put cell phone in your hand. So can I make sure can I make sure I understand capture. So you're saying that when there you would like to see an exception John for someone that has medical IEP that we the school district reserves the right to provide um similar equipment to support that medical or IEP need. Is that correct? You're right. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And I would disagree with that because um you're invading someone's privacy because we would own that cell phone but yet their medical records are on that phone. And I I don't I would think that that would violate HIPPA. Not for sure, but I would think

167that it would. Um and I I don't think as a parent I would want other people to know my child's Well, I'm not I'm not saying that we would own it. I'm saying um we could provide we could possibly provide you with a tool that isn't a cell phone, you know, or especially in the case of an IEP that we could provide an electronic device such as our Chromebook, etc. just just maintaining some some rights that might provide you everything you need without necessarily um putting you in in places that we don't want you to be whether it's worldwide web or Facebook real quick real quick. Can we go let's just go one at a time. I heard Mrs. Dberger was next and then I I will Mrs. Walsh can go after that. I was

168just going to state in regards to the medical equipment and IEP piece that even if there was some sort of um contract or exception um even with HIPPA they can do a HIPPO release form if we own the equipment or tool um or there was an understanding and then if not you know we have with our Chromebooks there's there final forms as a parent we agree you know that we're responsible for said Chromebook especially if the child is bringing it home etc. So same thing with that device. So if they opt out and that child's device is somehow utilized to, you know, invest in instigate further bullying or viral fighting as was mentioned this evening, then there could be some liability there. So there could be some ways to maybe add in both. I don't

169know, but just wanted to throw that out as a suggestion. Not saying I I agree either way. Mrs. Walsh. So um I have two two things here. So, as far as with the IEP, it can be wrote in the EP how the device is used and consequences for misuse. And we should require that all EP IEPs state exactly what the consequences for misuse are. Um, and it should be very clearly written. Um, I this policy is nice, but I don't agree with some of it because it says the students are prohibited from using cell phones. I don't believe the students should be allowed to bring a cell phone to school, period. They shouldn't be able to have a cell phone um at school. There's other alternatives that parents if parents are wanting to track their

170child if that's what they want, but children, they shouldn't be calling their kids, they can call the office if it's an emergency, just like they did when we went to school. There are options for getting a hold of your child in case of an emergency. And if the cell phone is locked in their um locker, which we don't have lockers, so that's not going to happen. They're not going to hear it anyhow since that's one of the suggestions. And then the other thing, this policy is saying the teachers are going to have to monitor. And I don't like that. Our teachers don't have time and they're not cell phone monitors. They're teachers. So the cell phone should not be allowed at school. And there should be uh the parent should have to come to the

171school and pick up the cell phone if the child is caught with the cell phone. So they're also being held accountable for the cell phone that they're paying for for their child. Right. It's the parents cell phone. It's not the child. So to clarif I'm sorry. Are you done? Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. I'm done. Yeah, I'm done. Sorry. I was rambling. There you go. I'm lost. All right, I'll just say my my things. Um I do I'm reading through the Ohio cell phone policy. Um this definitely looks a lot more a lot less vague. Um I do disagree um though that cell phones um should be prohibited from coming to school. I think that there's times before and after school too where a child might need it. um whether it be at bus

172stop, uh walking home from school. Um I wouldn't want to to hinder upon that. Um but I do believe um that this and just looking at this, I'd like a little bit more time um to look at it, but this cell phone policy, I think I would be on board with the one that you shared with us, Mrs. Gray. Yeah. And I agree that um I would not because of extracurricular activities, things like that that go on. Um think that they should be able to have a cell phone. Um the offices offices closed at after practices and things like that for them to be able to call their parents to not like back in the day when we had the the um pay phones. That's what I I was given a quarter every day to

173call my parents, tell them we were done. That's it's not like that now. So, um I I think that they should be able to take them, but they just cannot have them out during the whatsoever. Um and then um I think when we go through and we look at the different disciplines, you know, it would be nice that if we force the parents at some point that that you know after the first offense, second offense, whatever it is that they they have to take consequences of allowing their children to have their children. I would like to concur with that. The other concern I have just with even the um the possibility and I would afraid we never have this um any type of like active shooter even in the area. Um granted, you know, we

174have our our metal detectors, we've got our SRO, we've got great, you know, our security staff, our police police officers are great in our buildings, but there could be things around the building that in in case of an emergency. We've had lockdowns, not because of the that lock down because of things in the community and if it's ever one of those situations to where it could get worse and um there's not a way for students to reach their parents I would hate for that and I'm I would for me that would be my concern and and maybe there'll be other concerns from other parents regarding that as well. Mr. Christians yeah if you look um if we look at Dayton's policy um did you send that to us Mr. Kushner? Um or can you I

175not at this second but I I I can eventually. Um but their policy is to collect at the beginning of the day and um return at the end of the day and then if you have medical or IEP needs you may be granted access. So to me that would be possibly that um and and I guess by saying it that way it leaves it pretty open access. be okay because of your situation, we're going to let you carry your phone or access could be okay um if you need access to your phone um to check XYZ um you can request it. So I think they've left it a little open but it also gives them flexibility um to give the student access as the uh district or nurses etc or educators u um see fit.

176So for instance, if you have an IEP and it only affects you in um it doesn't affect you in in gym or music etc etc then you can say okay yes um you can have access make it available for this class etc. So it gives a lot of flexibility um to how that's enforced and what we do so we're not creating so many exceptions um and I I agree um with what Latoya said as far as security but I do also believe that there are other things we can put in place to ensure that every classroom has the ability to call out etc. which could actually be um more streamlined and possibly useful for security than everybody having at all times I should say as far as after school etc. Any other discussion? Well, I

177think I would agree that they checked in that might that would I think be accepted. I just don't want to see a future that gets implemented. I'd be interested to see how how that happens because like if say for example middle school and high school, you don't start the day out the same room that you end your day at. And how are they secured? I guess I do have a question wi with that. Um should we um is it are these questions that we want to get back to the superintendent? Yeah, I would I would think that we would need some of these answered by the superintendent. So then what I have for questions are just so I can have in the notes. Is this for me okay for me to recap, Mr. President? Yes,

178please. Okay. So, what I've heard is check in and check out processes if there if there was something of that nature um specifically for middle school and high school with their days not ending the same. Um any additional policy updates for uh students uh with medical, you know, whether it's IEP or 504 because there may need to be added to that policy as well. Correct. Um and then go back. So those are the main two that I had and then discipline. Um and then would we want to add anything in the like final forms as well like a parent agreement, student agreement like we do for Chromebooks. But they could I'm saying they could everybody have they could sign off on it in final forms too um or and and add it to the handbook.

179Correct. Student handbook. Okay. All right. Did that mean anything? Is there anything else I need to add? Um I'll clarify that the Dayton public schools it's it's a part of their um student code conduct and the um code is exactly the same I believe JFC so they use the same so you can find just to clarify real quick you so JFC G JFC is the same one that was using yeah they theycl include theirs in a in a um in their code of student conduct, but they use the same policy number JF CK. Yeah. Say that again, please. Is it modified the same? The par is is the policy the same that we have here or do they have mod? No, they they they were one of the early adopters to a very strict policy.

180So, they take theirs in with And you're going to send that to everyone like Miss Gray sent the other one for us and as well. if you could, that'd be great. Thank you. I didn't hear what you said. I was reading trying to read. Oh, no. I was just asking Mr. Kersner send what he was speaking of kind of how you I was saying like you sent the one to us and then Miss Grace sent the the Ohio model policy. I was just asking him to send it. They must use OSBA as well as their policy provider because we would all have the same numbers. Depends on your policy provider. Neiola has their numbering um configuration and OSBA has theirs. So the numbers are going to be the same or the letters rather. It's just

181the content will be different. Um yes, I'm sending that you can distribute. Um but to follow up with um Libbyy's question, they started off with I think very expensive pouches for the phones and then they I don't know if they were ending up getting lost or what and then they defaulted to basically, as I understand it, just an envelope that they are recording the data on and they're storing them when you come in and distribute them distributing them back when you go to get on the bus. So, Mr. President, I will get you the questions for you to fill to our superintendent on those three areas identified and then we have the other um policies I guess to then bring back for second review. Is that correct? Y so that'll be on next Monday. All

182right. On to item. Anything else for uh sorry, anything else for item C3? On to item D1. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? So moved. Second. Okay. I have second. Miss Aldoberger is first and I have Miss Kathy Walsh is second. Y. Roger that, sir. All right. On to Call please. Mr. Kersner. I'm sorry. I was having trouble hearing. We are now moving to dismiss. Is that correct? Correct. Correct. Thank you. Hi. Mr. Bower. Hi, Miss Gray. Hi, Miss Walsh. Hi, Miss Aldoberger. I It is 9:30 p.m. and we are We are German.