Hopkins Special School Board Meeting January 20th, 2026

001A special meeting of the Hopkins School Board started. Welcome everybody. Thank you for being here. And I would like to give a special welcome to one of our representatives of a search firm that we chose to interview. Thank you so much for being here, Deborah Taylor. And you are representing HYA and Associates. That's correct. And just officially, I call this meeting of the Hopkins School Board to order. It is 5.32 p.m. on Tuesday, January 20th. And we will go ahead and get started right away as I know our treasurer has some place to be. And also just for our community's information, Director Thompson cannot be here this evening. He sent me the following message. I'll be fine with either HYA or MSBA. I think HYA's national footprint is good and I've heard good things about

002MSBA's SI searches. Main thing on my mind that I'm sure will get fleshed out is do both firms have enough capacity with their current search obligations to give us the time and attention we'll need? So that gives you a heads up as to one of the questions you can address. So thank you for being here this evening. We're gonna, we could go, let's go around the table just quickly, say your name so that. May I ask as long as we're doing a quick introduction, would you mind if I ask each member to quickly state a specific question that they have for me, which I can then incorporate into my presentation just to save you all time. Would that be all right? Just a moment to do that? Sure, the format that we were gonna go

003with was to hear your presentation first and then each board member was going to ask one question. And we were gonna limit board member questions to total, but we can be flexible and adaptable. And so if each board member does want to name their first question before the presentation, let's go ahead and do that. Thank you. I would like Director Hyman to start, please. Good evening, Johanna Hyman. Thank you for coming tonight. One of my questions is the following. Your proposal emphasizes extensive community engagement and consultant authored leadership profiles. Can you walk us through how community input is synthesized into the profile and how you ensure quieter or less traditional voices are not filtered out in that process? Thank you. Hello, this is Jiming Zhou. My question is how does HYA separate a good superintendent

004candidate from a okay superintendent candidate? What are your criteria? Thank you. Hello, hello, my name is Brooke Roper and I'll save my question for after the presentation. No problem, thank you. Hi, my name is Shannon Andreessen and my question is have you ever run into a situation where you couldn't find a good fit superintendent for the district you were working with and how do you handle that situation if you've ever experienced it? Thank you. Yes. Hi Deborah, I'm Rhoda Marie Perry Reed, current superintendent. Yes. My question is how do you support candidates through the process, especially those who are sitting superintendents and how do you manage for confidentiality, some of the stress they may experience during the process and public visibility? Thank you. I'm good evening, I'm Rachel Hartland, the treasurer and a question that

005I have relates to the cost. Of course I did see that there was a cost proposal included with the information the district already received and I was wondering what if any additional services might your firm offer at which cost and if there's anything that is out of scope but common that the district might see. Thank you. Hi, I'm Sarah Wilhelm Garbers and I think the question I'll surface here is how are you intentional and just want to hear more from you in ensuring that it's not just a great superintendent candidate but a great one for the particularity of furthering the work of our district? Thank you. You are welcome, thank you very much. All right, we'll go ahead and get started. I heard you say earlier that we had about 30 minutes, is that correct?

00620 to 30 minutes for the presentation. Okay, then I will go through these slides rather quickly so that we'll have time for questions and when one of your questions arises in relation to my presentation, I'll take a moment to just point that out and elaborate just a moment, okay? So first of all, as you know, my name is Dr. Deborah Taylor. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here to present our proposal on behalf of HYA. Before, as we prepared our proposal, one of the things that we do is to research your district quite thoroughly. So the first few slides I have to share with you are about Hopkins. And that helps us illustrate that we are a firm that really tailors the, no pun intended, tailors the proposal to the specific situation, culture, context,

007strategies, and goals that you are working toward. And that was something mentioned by an earlier question and that is a good versus great candidate. If you have a very specific profile, such as one that might match with the aspirations of Vision 2031, you're very likely to have an excellent fit. And that's what we would be searching for as we worked on this program. I was personally very impressed with your vision and the work that you have underway. I can see that you are looking at a transformational process to really improve education for all students and again, that type of vision is something that you would like to see in your candidate and your future superintendent as well. You have a strategic plan that's in place and I can observe that you are making good progress,

008focusing on teaching and learning, school district culture, and your operations. And by all accounts, you are very well regarded, you are making good progress, and you are particularly focused on the human element, the engagement and the inclusivity and how important it is to honor each individual student and of course, staff member as well within your school community. Well, now we're going to move on to your role. And as a school board, you have a monumental responsibility and that is to move forward with the superintendent selection and the contract and eventually ongoing evaluations. And it's something that as you are well aware, actually this statement was taken from your website on the left-hand side. As you proceed with this process, it's important that you understand and come to know the professional and personal qualifications and characteristics

009of the school district, what your stakeholders know and expect. You had asked a question a moment ago about how can we ensure that we have a full range of community engagement and input. And I think that's possible in a number of ways. And if we are selected, what we would do would work with you to identify how we would access individuals. We would look at both virtual in some cases is a really good venue for busy working parents and community members, but being able to attend in-person various community group events and take part in an in-person focus group there is very important. When you have that opportunity even to spend 45 minutes with a small group of people, and you'll hear specifically both your comments of positive nature and any future concerns that they'd like

010to voice in relation to your future leaders. So I believe that that in-person kind of focus group is extremely important. At the same time that you have a district, which is I would say average to above average and you have many citizens who might like to know more about what is the search process all about. We can provide you with a community forum and invite folks to come and or join in electronically to explain what the process is like once the district has made a plan and is ready to proceed with a timeline and specific activities. Some people just have questions or we prefer to take part in a less formal setting and that's very possible for us as well. So why HYA? I know I'm going to be working my, if you will, competition

011this evening is the State School Boards Association and I am aware that they have recently obtained a number of search contracts. I believe that they have 10 or so in place right now. So it's important for you to understand that HYA as a corporation which has many individual consultants, we can concentrate our work on your district. As you can see, we've already taken some time to research the district, to become familiar with the type of experiences that you've had and what your goals are for the future. By working with HYA, we guarantee that we're going to be providing you with not only the experience of our firm, but also that personal touch, an opportunity to get to know you and to enact a process that you are very comfortable with. We have the statistics behind

012us as well. In the last three to four years, we have had completed the most searches nationally. We completed over 90 searches in 23, 24. And as you probably observed from our application, there is a list of individuals, both within the state and the Midwest and nationally, who could be contacted as references because we have completed a large number of searches. It's important to know that 94% of our superintendents stay for the full term of their first contract. And I think that shows that, yes, in fact, we have found a leader that our school board and community are very happy with. I understand that in Minnesota, that's a three-year contract. You have an opportunity to continue it, but that's the maximum amount that you can. Even so, having that recruiting advantage, knowing that folks who

013come to us are going to be very serious about moving forward with you is extremely important. We have a wide reach, not only nationally, but in Minnesota as well. We have, our network includes retired superintendents, some of whom you may know by name. One is Dr. Carlton Jenkins, who had been a superintendent here a few years back, Dr. Ted Blazing, and there are others. We also have networks here within the state with the Minnesota Administrators Association. So we have many ways to network, even though we're a national firm. So we had talked a little bit about this before. I guess for your sake, it's important to know that our emphasis, like yours, is on inclusivity and ensuring diversity in your candidate pool. And we therefore have experience within our associate group. 35% of our associates

014are persons of color, 49% are women. So we bring that diversity right here to the table. So at this point, when we conclude our presentation and you've had a chance to confer and consider HYA, our question would be, which firm has the infrastructure, relationships, and expertise to recruit your next leader? This is a visual of our team, myself, and Dr. Walters and Mr. Fabresert are all experienced superintendents. I have, myself, had 16 years in the role before retiring about a year and a half ago. I sometimes call it rewiring because I'm very busy now, even though I'm not currently working in the system. But that provides all of you with some confidence that folks in our team will have had an opportunity to work with school boards, with the school communities, and have a successful

015term as superintendent. Myself, I currently serve on a board and some of our associates do as well. So I'm also acquainted with the role of the school board and the importance of focusing on your needs and your desires as leaders in this process. So some people will say, well, you know, search processes are the same. Everyone does it the same way. Well, that's not quite true. I've already mentioned that we do take our search process and really develop it in such a way that it meets your specific needs. We take your direction on how you would like it to unfold. There are four phases and it takes about three months to move through these phases before you reach the final decision-making point. First is the engagement, which is reaching out to your community, having our

016forums and working with focus groups to get to know individuals and how they would like to see you move forward with your future leader. That information helps to create a leadership profile, which we then summarize and return to you as a school board. You will then accept or refine that profile and that becomes the, you know, immediately the face of the person that you are seeking. Following the engagement process, we moved to the recruitment process. And I wanted to let you know that once you selected and contracted with our firm, we would immediately post your position, even though the leadership profile was still being developed. We are at a point in time in the middle of January, which is considered still a good time for recruiting. So we would want to do that as soon

017as possible. Our job posts are national. We work with all of the associations. We actually have a LinkedIn presence, which is a very popular place for people to search for jobs at this point in time. However, if you felt that you would like to go beyond and look at extensive advertising outside, we do have additional costs. It was asked before about some additionals. For example, if you wanted to work in Education Week or another advertisement that requires a specific cost, we would inform you about that and we could work out an arrangement to have that accomplished. In the next phase of the process, we look at selection and that takes about three to four weeks. And during that time period, we work with you to establish your interview protocol. We will provide you with excellent

018research-based examples, but we would really like to get your feedback about specific questions you may wish to incorporate. We develop an interview calendar and then we'd also work with you on the finalist feedback. And then last but not least, is that all important transition. You have a current superintendent here, Dr. Reed, and I know that she will be very willing to assist with the transition. And once that first day of work begins and the person takes on the position on their own, they will be needing support. Even if they are an experienced superintendent, moving into a new community and getting to know the students and the administration and working effectively with you as a school board might require additional support. So we provide informal mentoring, but we also provide a transition seminar that goes on

019over a period of six months where a superintendent and a board member, potentially a board chair, can attend a virtual series of virtual meetings. And those meetings are specifically designed for that first six months, helping the individual set up their 100-day plan, setting up and reviewing in detail the strategic plan that you have in place, getting a feel for the place in which we are in that particular program and moving on also to what specific issues might need to be addressed immediately and in the short and long term. So that lets you know that we're not going to be a temporary presence, we'll be working with you and supporting you and you're a new superintendent for some time. So I know that many individuals are interested in keeping track of the candidate applications who might

020come into the portal once individuals are ready to make application. And it's important for you to understand that we are fortunately in a computer age. So we've had an opportunity for all of our client districts to have a personalized board portal. And here's the information that's incorporated. You can go through and look at this anytime. You can look at the candidate's application materials. This is private to you and anyone else who you may designate, perhaps your HR person in the district office who can review this and be apprised of what's occurring. It would look something like this. As you can see, there would be six tabs and it would just help you continue to organize and place that you can go when you need updated information. We've gotten excellent feedback from boards who have worked

021with us on this process. It's really useful. All right. So getting back quickly to the engage phase, I've briefly discussed it with you. The first thing we'll do upon approval is to work with a board planning meeting. And that would mean we've come back to work with you or whatever it works for you. I'll work virtually to go over the timeline and make it specific to your needs. Part of the engage phase is interviews as well as focus groups. So we will individually interview each board member to get a feel for their goals as we move forward in the process. And we will also conduct focus groups and the community forums, as I said. And we have an optional stakeholder survey that's available to you. That's an additional cost to do a formal survey. This

022is just another look at that, a different graphic. Another look at it. So I mentioned that people who've worked with us have very positive feelings about it. And what is the difference between what we might do and another's? Well, we'll personally be present in your district. We will support you. We'll be the face of the school board in carrying out your wishes in the interview and focus group process. And I think that's very important. And we will be devoting our time to working with your district solely. At this point in time, none of us has another search that's underway. What might that look like? Well, here is the search timeline, which is very similar to the one that I included in your board proposal. So you have had a chance to review this already. I

023just added a few dates. I don't know if you're gonna be making your decision this evening about the appointment or if that will be at your next meeting coming up a week from tonight. If you are ready, whenever you are ready to invite us back to work with you, we will be prepared to support you in finalizing this search timeline. I've mentioned to you that I'm assuming that you are looking for the July 1 start date. That's correct. Okay, excellent. And when we meet with you, we'll come up with a specific timeline with specific dates to move each of these processes forward. So again, more of a summary. We are your ambassadors. We are looking to provide you with that versatile meeting formats. We are looking for supporting your community by having flexible meeting times

024and also looking for diverse and inclusive ways to include community members. One example I'd like to give you is we'll reach out to community organizations, whether it be your school or district PTO or other organizations in the community, whether it might be Rotary or Kiwanis, where people normally would gather and also of course have an interest in supporting the schools. And you may naturally have other groups that you would like us to connect with. Those were just a few examples. And then we would request that we be incorporated into their agenda or invite some of their group members to join a focus group. So I think one of the most important things to recognize about our firm is that recruiting advantage. We truly work very, very hard to aggressively recruit candidates for you. You are

025probably aware that like educators in general, it is difficult to find high quality individuals to serve both in the schools as teachers and administrators and as well as superintendents. So we have a large diverse network. It may be that, on the other hand, it may be that you have an administrator here in your district, if who you would like to see apply for the position. If you have an internal candidate, we would treat them just like any other candidate, but we would certainly take them, that person through the process. So your options range from local to national. And our network provides us with information that really support us in the, not only bringing a diverse set of candidates to you, but having people who really match your profile as that proceeds. I'm enjoying the graphics

026time. I don't know about you, but I have a great time doing these on my slide. So just another way to look at it. All right. Another important point is, and again, how many of you have ever been involved in a superintendent search before? Any of you? Okay. All right, great, wonderful. So for others, it's important to recognize that whether we, that there are sometimes unconscious biases that occur when one is looking at employing a new person or interviewing a new person. It's something we have to be very, very careful about. And that's one of the reasons why I dislike the whole idea of video conferencing as a screening tool. I think we need to take a look at all of our candidates for the qualities and the experience that they bring forward. Once again,

027more exciting graphics for us, but in the interest of time, I'll move on. So we've talked about the HYA Transition Academy, and here are some of the outcomes of that. The 100-day plan, looking at aligning communication and measuring progress of your current strategic plan as well, an evaluation process, that's very important for the school board, of course, and also a strategic plan assessment. So it would give a new person coming on the scene that opportunity. Now, this is available to all individuals that we recommend that the district might place. So any of our clients for no charge, and others, if they're interested, would need to pay an additional 4,500. So that is built in to your fee already. And finally, the supports that we provide are in project planning, community engagement, recruitment and sourcing, candidate

028management, vetting and due diligence, and also advisory services. So what I'd like to just comment on now in relation to some of the questions that you've brought up before is the idea of how does one support a candidate to tour the successful outcome? And again, a candidate may be looking at a number of districts. It's possible that they may be candidate in more than one district. So we need to make it clear up front that if that's the case that they need to inform us. I find that one is working on a search. It's very important to find out exactly what the individual candidate needs. And that support is important. It might mean checking in with that person every week or two. It might mean checking in to ask about additional information that they might

029require. We also support people going through the application process, which is an online process. But certainly from time to time, people might have questions about that. So we wanna be sure that our candidates are successful and that they are going to be prepared for moving forward successfully. It's also necessary to point out that the state of Minnesota has a complex system for qualification as a superintendent. And I myself do hold a superintendent's license in Minnesota. And I receive that through the alternative pathway, which many people do. It requires some additional coursework and two or three different groups that one must interact with. It's really quite complex. So with that experience, we know that we'll be able to support a candidate from out of state who might not come to you with that Minnesota credential through

030that process. And we have connections at the university as well. So that's a very important piece. Let's see. As far as the good or great, we are definitely going to be looking for the great candidate, the greatest person for you. And as you can see, our attention to detail, our communication with you and getting to know your district and staying in touch with you and being available to you 24 seven, truly we are, we'll give you our cell phone numbers. In fact, we already have. As time goes on to see if you have any specific questions, we make that available to you as well. The last thing I have here, and you may wonder why, I realized that this is a challenging time right now in the schools throughout the country really, but in particular

031here in the Twin Cities and the suburbs of the Twin Cities. And I essentially wanted to let you know that if a potential candidate has questions about, perhaps they're from out of state, they have questions about the community and how the school board and the school administration are addressing some of the challenges that they're experiencing right now in the community. I would point out, I think you're excellent, a board safety statement that you shared. And again, I'm certain that that's something that you would want to discuss further with your search firm to ensure that it was very clear that you maintain or continue to have your focus and support for an inclusive and diverse school community and to ensure that every student in the school community is successful. And one of the ways to do

032that is to provide these kinds of reassurances to the community, the parents, staff, and the students. So I really would like to thank you for your leadership in that area for certain. And now we're back to questions, along with some lovely pictures of the students in your district. Thank you for that presentation and also thank you for acknowledging the times that we're living in and also the ways in which the Hopkins community shows up for each other. So I appreciate that. Of course. And I would like to then offer an opportunity for each board member, Vice Chair Roper, you get two to ask follow-up questions or if you have an additional question that you wanted to get some more information on from HYA specifically to feel free to do that. I'm gonna start with you,

033Vice Chair Roper, because you didn't ask your question before and then we'll end with you. So thank you. Okay. Hi, well thank you. Well, thank you so much for that very detailed presentation. I really appreciate it and learning more and it's always helpful to hear about the experience that you bring as a superintendent in this current process. So the question that I do have is, how would you support the board in aligning around a shared leadership profile before candidate interviews begin? To develop a leadership profile, how would we engage the board with that? Yeah, so how would you help us as a board align around the leadership profile that we are looking for in the current superintendent? I mean, excuse me, in our future superintendents. Certainly, certainly. I know what you meant, that's fine. Yes,

034well thank you. Well, I have to say the first thing I would do would be to just bring to your attention the Minnesota superintendent competencies so that you would know what a high quality superintendent is from the standpoint of the Minnesota Department of Education and the research base that went to that. So you'd have a starting point. The interviews that we would be conducting with you would provide us with more information than you might share as a group, and again, that would be returned back to you in a summary. All of our interviews that we conduct will be turned back to all of you in a summary form so you can hear all of your voices and what your interests are. It's focus groups, and if you choose a survey, the community forum will be

035collecting feedback along the way, and all of that will be distilled into the core elements that you would find most compelling in your future leader. So that profile, it's not possible for me to imagine exactly what it would state, but it will be a culmination of both what is expected of a high quality leader, what we've discussed, the competencies, as well as what you and your community desire to see in your future superintendent. Keeping in mind the strategic plan and goals you have and how you would like to move the district forward. We would be working with the community and then come back to you with a draft profile. You would be then, as a board, refining, making adjustments, and once you were comfortable with the content of the profile, we would then release it

036and make it public. So that's a decision that you would make with input from the community. Thank you so much. Sure. Director Zhao. Hi, yes, hi, Deborah. Thank you for the presentation. It's more of a general question, but as you alluded to, this is the first time a lot of us are evaluating a superintendent. What advice would you have for us on how we should evaluate a superintendent applicant, and what are some of the two or three things that we should look for? Sure. Well, we wouldn't be bringing anyone to you that wasn't qualified. That's one thing. I think the first thing that you should be looking at is whether you personally, and again, you're gonna be part of that decision, whether you personally believe that this individual presents the leadership profile characteristics that will

037assist your school district in moving forward. So let me just give an example. Suppose that you're interested in focusing primarily on student achievement in your next superintendent. And again, this is just nothing at all to reflect on your current school system. But if that's the case, you may be looking for an individual who has either a tremendous amount of classroom experience or a person who has worked in a leadership role and very successfully moved a school system forward to improve outcomes for children. So you could determine that. Again, we would assist you with that through reference checks, et cetera. In the case of the interview process, there's really two sections. The first group of candidates would be a larger group, and then you would narrow it down to one, two, or three finalists. So you

038would have two opportunities to meet with each candidate. And oftentimes the school board goes off script on their last interview, and they might ask some follow-up questions from the first that they did not have an opportunity to ask about. So I think between that and our report back to you on references for each candidate, I think should give you good information for decision-making. Thank you, that's very helpful. Sure. Thanks. And I did wanna mention if a board member, if you feel like you need a follow-up on your first question, feel free to do that. And then you still have a second. So I wanted to clarify that. Director Hyman. Thank you for the informative presentation. One question I have is, will candidates, you acknowledged our current strategic plan of Vision 2031, and will candidates who

039are thoughtful and aware, but even may be critical of the current strategic plan be considered, or is alignment with the existing plan used as a screening or filtering criteria in your search process? Yes, that's a good question. Well, and not knowing your system well enough, you might be in a position of getting ready to restart a new planning process, I don't know. I find, though, that a person who is truly interested in your current position that's open is going to be focused on getting to know as much about you as they possibly can. And things like your current strategic plan are going to really inform them about your work that you've accomplished and your aspirations for the future. So I think a good candidate should come prepared to be able to speak about what you

040currently have in place, as well as what their vision might be to move the school system forward and the success they've had in other leadership roles that would accomplish that. But once again, a plan is a flexible document and it does necessarily have to be adjusted at times in the event of change in the community or perhaps all goals were accomplished. Well, we've got to go back to the drawing board and start again. So, but I do think it, what I typically would recommend to a candidate is that they would take time to become familiar with your current plan and other information about the demographics of your district. Thank you. Yeah. Director, oh, no, sorry, clerk, WG, that, okay, great. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yes, excuse me, thank you. I think my question is,

041I appreciated, I'll start with what I appreciated. I appreciated how you highlighted your all's work in seeking to include voices and I think as you, Director Hyman, had named, voices that are diverse across our community. And one of those that I was curious about is what is the imagination around students of all ages in ways that we might include them in our listening for what they're hoping for is from us as a district in this next season with leadership? Thank you. Thank you so much for that question. Actually, I didn't mention it because it just didn't occur to me to point it out, but that is the first thing we do is to work with representatives groups of students. And we work with both middle school students and high school students to seek feedback. And

042it can be done in a number of ways. I think a comfortable way is a focus group. And the idea behind a focus group is that we ask similar questions to every group. And I find that the students, when we work with students, they have such interesting perspectives and not just about the day-to-day, but about their future. And I think that's important for you to know. When we provide you with feedback, we'll provide it by group, not so that you can individually identify anyone, but we would have a separate set of feedback for students, community, parents, staff. We'll also, of course, invite teachers and other support staff from the school system to take part in focus groups. So you will have a very broad and inclusive way of looking at it. I know that you

043also have some language diversity in your community, and we highly recommend looking for ways to connect with individuals of various languages and to provide interpreters for those community or parent focus groups. We would have to work with you on setting those up, but that's extremely important, too, to be sure that we have an inclusive voice. Thank you. Thank you. Treasurer Heartland. Thank you. I echo my colleague's thanks and appreciation. A follow-up to my initial question was, you mentioned an additional cost would be a stakeholder survey. I was wondering if you could touch very briefly on the cost and format of that, and then I do have one other question. Sure. I have just one second. It is $2,000, and it has a, it's an electronic survey, and it's research-based. We've been utilizing it and adjusting

044it for many years. It provides you with the same type of feedback within the stakeholder groups that we spoke about. Students can utilize it, staff, community parents. So it does not take more than about five or 10 minutes to complete. It's a series of questions that, again, we're looking at focusing on the next leader and their characteristics in the question. So is this like a link that would be generated that we could email, say, to parents or something like that? Is that what you mean by an electronic survey? You're asking if we could generate it that in an email? I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. Yeah, I am curious how we will, you said it's an electronic survey, and like how would we utilize that? Thank you, I see what you're saying. So I would

045imagine that your district has utilized surveys in the past, and it would depend upon the group. First of all, I would, we usually set it up for about three to four weeks at a time. We would advertise it with your assistance, assistance of the staff here, on the website. Normally, if you have, utilize your social media to send out the link and or QR code to link directly to the survey. The other ways would be to set time aside in school, perhaps during faculty meetings or staff meetings, where the staff could collectively complete the survey. Same with students in home rooms, et cetera. So there are ways to get a lot of robust engagement in that survey, absolutely. If it's properly, if people are properly notified about it. And the other thing is some people

046say, well, what about folks who aren't technically savvy? Well, some schools choose to make a hard copies and perhaps take them to an assisted living location and have them complete it and then turn it back in and hard copy to us. So there are many ways that we can get input traditionally and non-traditionally. Okay, thank you. And then my second question is either from what you know about our district or in the climate today, what do you see as a big challenge that we might face? And briefly, how would you help us with that? Sure. Well, I think that the transition to a new superintendent is quite a challenge. I understand that you've been with the district a number of years, is that right? Nine. Right, right. So I think what you ought to understand

047that a new leader coming into the school is going to require some time to transition. And they will, it usually takes six months to a year before all aspects of the position and the responsibilities are known. And I think that the important thing, again, from what I've seen in your district is going to be to keep the momentum, the positive momentum going in terms of the accomplishments that you have completed so far. And also to address any issues that may arise. I think that from the community's standpoint, maintaining strong, positive communication, focusing on inclusivity, looking for ways to invite the public in to ensure that they understand what the school system's all about and also that they have an opportunity for input on an ongoing basis is very important. I've always found as a superintendent

048that you can't communicate enough. The more you can reach out to people and speak to folks and share information online, the better. So I think ongoing communication would certainly be helpful. And then perhaps the challenges that we have right now, politically, you might be seeking a leader who has a calm demeanor, who is able to diffuse challenging situations, to address and come up with solutions when there are distinct differences of opinion. And that is certainly one of the challenges that I'm sure you're currently seeking or seeing at this point in time. I would need to get to know your district more to be able to comment further, but just to give you a little bit of an outline. If you ask me in a month after I've completed all the community engagement sessions, I'd be

049able to provide you with a lot more detail. Thank you. Dr. Mary Perry-Reed does not have any more questions. So forgive me if I missed it, but I don't feel like I heard what you, if the answer to the question of have you ever experienced not finding the right fit superintendent? And if you have, how do you handle that situation? Yes, yes. I have not personally had that situation, nor am I familiar with others, excuse me, superintendent searches through the firm where that has been the case. But if it were the case, one option that you might consider is hiring an interim and restarting the search in a future year. An interim is someone that you might work with for six months or years of time. But that has not been something that I've run

050up against as a problem. And I think part of the reason is because we do aggressively recruit. And when I mean that, it's not that we are calling everyone that we know and saying, hey, this is the job for you. But really just connecting with our associates and our contacts in the state and saying, we're looking for a person to fill this role. Here's the profile. Can you help us identify some people who we might reach out to? And I think that's the difference. The application will be available to anyone who wishes to apply. So all applications will be reviewed. But I think once we have a clear understanding of your future leader expectations, we would be effective, I think, in our recruitment strategies. Thank you. And just a quick follow-up. If we did go

051through that hiring and interim process, is that something that would be included in this proposal that you've set before us? Or would we be adding that on to the cost? Not having done that before, I would really have to check. I can say that we have a guarantee in the contract that if the person that you decide to hire does not stay with the school district through the first full year, we will provide you with the search services without additional cost to find another person to replace it. So that's the guarantee that we have made unknown and available to you. So if for whatever reason that person decides it's not the right fit or you decide it's not the right fit, we would be there to help you recruit a new person. I would have

052to check on that and I would have to get back to you, but I certainly could do that. Yeah, I'd be interested to hear if that would be transferable to the interim process. I think the most important thing to emphasize is that we are personally going to support your request for your new leader and that will be our sole responsibility. So we'll be putting all of our time and effort into that. Thank you. And we also provide a price match for similar services if that is something that our competitor is offering a different price and you'd like to consider that. I can certainly work with you on that as well. Great, thank you. Of course. And then my second question is how do you help the board reach consensus and expand it on that? How

053do you handle situations where the board is divided on candidate preferences? Yeah. Well, our goal first of all is to work with the board to help them gain an understanding of the interview process. So we would offer a pre-interview, a sort of mini workshop for you as a group and that hopefully would assist you in understanding how yourselves, how you can work together to achieve consensus. However, there are some specific things that we have found that are useful in facilitating groups toward consensus and most of the time what we seek is returning to a specific candidate's strengths and part of the process that you'll be doing is taking notes about each candidate interview. So take a look at the strengths of each person. Perhaps you might share them with one another to see if you

054have agreement. If in a larger group we would use a fist to five protocol, I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. If you're, just as you work through, if you have no problems with the candidate, you're gonna have all five fingers up. If you can't accept them for any reason, you might have your fist and that will help you see how the group is progressing toward a full consensus. That's just one example but there are a number of different protocols that we might use to support you in that decision. Thank you. Sure. Appreciate it. And direct Vice Chair Roper. Thank you so much Shannon. That was kind of my question as well around just like the alignment of the profile of leadership that we're looking for with our superintendent. My other question would be,

055so how do you evaluate a leader's ability to hold competing truths? So like academic urgency, fiscal responsibility, labor dynamics and community expectations at the same time? Well, I think as a leader who has been in that role, I certainly feel that it's important to have knowledge of all aspects of the district's operation. And depending upon, I've worked in different school systems, so the time and attention you might spend in a certain area will vary depending on the time of year or a specific issue that's cropped up. For example, if you're in the midst of labor negotiations, then that will be a focus for you. I also believe it's important for a superintendent to understand how to delegate and or utilize the expertise within the school system. So I would want to be sure that a

056person had the, not only the knowledge and skills in each of those areas, but also could effectively oversee, delegate and then yet maintain a clear oversight of the work to be sure it's accomplished appropriately. It is important to have a balance as well. Most people in, you all have jobs and I'm sure you're very busy. It's important to recognize that a good leader also has a personal life and perhaps a family life. And I encourage people to ensure that they take time for themselves as well as devoting their time and effort to the school district. Thank you so much. That's just a really, really quick follow up. Is there any aspect of the superintendent search where you engage different entities such as our city council or mayor in the process at all? Just like giving

057some feedback or are they considered like the community engagement just because our work intersects a lot? And just was wondering how that, is that historically a part of the superintendent search at all? Yes, absolutely. And it could be part of the interview process in addition to interviewing you, you could ask us to interview your mayor or other individuals in the community that have positions of importance that you would like to be sure are connected with the search or invite them to a specific focus group for their roles and responsibilities as well. So this is your search and I want you to emphasize that. We would wanna personalize it, customize it just for your needs. And if that's an area you would want us to focus on, we definitely would. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

058I appreciate your time, your presentation. And we are at our time almost exactly. So well done everybody. And we'll look forward to getting back to you after we've deliberated and decided on a search firm. Excellent. Do you think that you'll be just a question that wasn't certain if this is an action decision you'll be making this evening or might you be making it at your next board meeting? Yes, we're hoping to have the decision made tonight so we can let you know. All right, very good. Yes. Very good. Would you like me to stay in case you have questions for later on or? If you have the time, that would be great. Yeah. Okay, I will do that. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure speaking with all of you and I really

059appreciate the opportunity to share HYA's experience and we look forward to working with you hopefully. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think MSBA did that, I guess, just out of respect for presentation. But I guess we're waiting to see if she's here. So yes, she's here in person. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yes. Do you like the teriyaki time? Oh, is this teriyaki? No, this is just his hot, but I wanna ask who can get teriyaki. Public service. It's so bougie, like, I can get teriyaki. Thank you. Thank you. Gotta make sure you clean your teeth after this. Bring your own teriyaki, just like, dabble it in. I am. You like it? It's gorgeous. It's a personal teriyaki. You know, I like the flavor teriyaki. I'm sure there's a new cook with

060it. I'm sure there are. I'll have to see if she wants to make it. All right, use lots of sodium. It's high in sodium. You check your blood pressure. Don't use all sodium. Okay. No sodium tomorrow. But then I use, like, six times more. So it's the pizza version, you know? Oh, gosh. That's hilarious. Hello. Hello. Welcome. Hello, buddy. Hello. I need to get my computer up so that I'm running it from this. Okay. So if you give me just a minute to see if that's going to work. Hello there. Do I have an HDMI port? You might need an adapter. Do you have one? Yes. I can dig to my briefcase. Oh, no, I have one. You're okay? Okay. I'm giving you each one of these before the meetings. Oh, thank you so much.

061Yeah. I'm Barb, by the way. Johanna. Johanna? Johanna Moore. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Nice to meet you. Absolutely, I'm Barb. Thank you. Nice to meet you. I'm Karen. I'm your vice-chair, correct? Mm-hmm. Hi. I'm Jessica. Nice to meet you, too. Thanks for being here. Hi, I'm Dr. McCreary. How are you? Nice to see you. Nice to see you as well. Thank you. You're welcome. Rachel. Thank you for coming. Hi. I'm Barb. Nice to meet you. Sarah. Sarah. Thank you so much. How dare you? I'm still food there. Can I open it up? See if it works? Okay, just grab it. Great. No, this is actually a very healthy snack if you're looking to, like, shape up a little bit. What do you mean, like, shape

062up? You're looking to get it deep out. This is the pinnacle of male performance, okay? So there's no improving. Are you sure? Just do it. Don't do it. How dare you? How dare you? So let me close everything. Yep, no. Open up the one. Clearly not. That I need tonight. That is hilarious. That's not. So don't you go into presentation, or are we shooting for you? We'll tell each show from the beginning. They're very perfect for each other. Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it. Are you ready? I think I am. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. We look forward to hearing more about the executive search services through MSBA. And just so you're aware of the process, we have 20 to 30 minutes for your presentation. And then- 30? 20 to

06330. 20 to 30? Okay, thank you. And then each board member will ask a question, and we get the opportunity, as well as our superintendent, and then get the opportunity to ask a second. And we're hoping to keep that to 20 to 30 minutes as well. So thank you for being here this evening, and feel free to go ahead and get started. Or we could go around and introduce ourselves first, and then we'll get started. Okay, thank you. Would you like to start, Director Hyman? Sure. My name's Johanna Hyman. I was just elected in November. This is my second ever board meeting. So thank you for being here. Hello, this is Jiming Zhou. Hi, my name is Brooke Roper. Hi, Shannon Andreessen. Nice to meet you, in person, officially. Thank you. And Rhoda Marie Puri-Reed,

064current superintendent. And Sarah Wilhelm-Garbers, also my second board meeting. So thank you for being here. Thank you. I truly appreciate the chance to visit with you about MSBA's Superintendent Search Services. My name is Barb Dorn. I'm the Director of Leadership Development and Executive Search at MSBA. And the first thing I want to do is acknowledge that we are in difficult times. So all of you as school board members and Dr. Marie Puri-Reed, I wanna thank you for everything you are doing for the students in Hopkins Public Schools. That is unprecedented times right now. And for those of you who were at the MSBA Leadership Conference last week, I think that sense of camaraderie and shared vision and care for our students came through very, very clearly in the days that I was there. So thank

065you for all of that. So Chair Andreessen, members of the board, Dr. Marie Puri-Reed, I am hoping to tell you a lot in 20 to 30 minutes about the Superintendent Search Services that MSBA provides. It will feel like I'm telling you a little bit about a lot of things because there is so much involved in a Superintendent Search. And I know you have seen our proposal as well, which is a pretty thick document. So I'm gonna refer to that a few times, as well as the information that is in the folder that I distributed to all of you as well. So the first thing I wanna talk about is the fact that when we partner with people who are different than us, the outcome is always stronger. That is a core premise of board leadership.

066It is something we take very personally at MSBA. And I wanna share with you the members of the team that we will be sharing with you as part of the Superintendent Search process here in Hopkins Public Schools. I have been at MSBA for almost seven years now. This is the only work I do in Superintendent Search. It is something that consumes me year round, but particularly from November until June, as well as all the members of my team. As far as the leadership team, I am gonna speak a little bit about the people that are on our service provider list here in the metro area. There are five people who will be participating as a vetters and recruiters for the MSBA search. You can see them right here. First of all, Dr. Kate McGuire. She

067was the superintendent for a long time in Osseo Public Schools when she retired from there. She did work as the interim superintendent at Anoka Hennepin and also in St. Louis Park. Dr. McGuire was also Superintendent of the Year in 2014 here in Minnesota. If you look inside this booklet here, I should also mention on the left side of the folder is a map, and this is the service providers that we have across the state. So we have a statewide reach, and everyone on here are consultants that assist MSBA because they have experience as an administrator, a superintendent, or a school board member. Everyone in the yellow area, myself, Amy Jordan, Shelby Herrera, and Maria Schinderbacher are MSBA employees. And for all of us, this is all that we do, is the superintendent search, and we

068also do superintendent evaluation, which of course is tied very, very closely to superintendent search. Everyone else is a service provider for us in search work. In the metro area, you can see the people that we have identified behind here with their resumes. This information is also in the proposal, but I did include it in here one more time if you'd like to see the backgrounds and experience of the five people that make up our Minnesota Metro vetting team. So in addition to Dr. McGuire, Dr. John Ward is a service provider for MSBA. He is a longtime Mountain's View member of the staff there. He spent about 25 years, eventually in the district office for about the last 20, serving as general counsel and assistant superintendent as well. Dr. Bernadette Johnson was formerly the superintendent of

069Minneapolis Public Schools. I would say that Dr. Johnson is one of the most fierce advocates for students that I have ever met. The passion just oozes from her when you speak to her about public education. So we're very excited that she is on our team as well. Josh Pauley is a school board member formerly in Minneapolis Public Schools. His background is in the private sector and in entrepreneurship, and he is also our national recruiter. And I'll talk more about our team when we get a little further in here as well. And then Connie Hayes is a former superintendent of Intermediate School District 916. Her background is in school psychology and she is one of the most insightful vetters that I have ever worked with as well. So these five people, in addition to myself and

070the team that you see listed in the yellow area of that map, will be working exclusively for you on the Hopkins superintendent search process. I value these folks for a lot of reasons. Not only because they think differently than me and they have different life experiences. They also have some wisdom and some experience and connections that I think are second to none. And in particular, their Minnesota connections and experience are very, very deep and very, very wide. So as they work with us on the team, I will be asking them for assistance in recruiting. They will take a look at all of the applications. They do help us winnow down the pool to those who most align with your leadership profile and the results of your public summary report. And so I'll be leaning on

071them quite heavily because I'm very, very aware that I don't know everything but I will be serving as the search lead for Hopkins public schools. So that means that you will be hearing from me a great deal and I will be available to you whenever you have a question as well. So I'll be the search lead for you on this process. I wanna talk about some lessons learned first and foremost. One of the things that I think people get a little bit, I can't think of the right word, but they get a little bit overwhelmed by is the amount of work involved in a superintendent search. And there are a lot of different things involved so it can feel at times confusing to sort of sift through all of the noise. So I'm gonna tell

072you first and foremost, there's no magic to it. Every search firm will do the same things but we all do them differently. So there's six things that every search firm you visit with or any proposal that you received will talk about. They'll talk about creating the leadership profile in partnership with the board, members of the public and the staff. They will offer engagement opportunities for people to be involved in the process. They will advertise this, they will recruit people for the positions, they will vet those applications and recommend finalists to you. That is just standard. The last piece is facilitating the interview process and again, that is just a matter of extremely strong communication during that phase. I'm not gonna get into depth on each of these but I'm simply going to tell you that

073what we do 10 years ago is probably very similar to all of the other search firms. We've been doing searches for over 15 years here in Minnesota and in the last five we have become the premier search firm in the state of Minnesota. We've done over 130 searches in the last 10 years but prior to that we probably are sitting close to 250 or 300 searches but we also are statewide. So it is a much larger footprint. In the last few years we're doing most of the metro searches as well. So how we do this is different. The what I'm not gonna spend time on but I will talk about continuous improvement just for a moment because things need to change. And the continuous improvement model that MSBA uses is really based on this. So

074first and foremost, educationally here in Hopkins Public Schools, are you still doing things the same way that you did five years ago or even two years ago? Things have changed, correct? And they obviously need to do that. And I think for us at MSBA the turning point came in 2020 because we were doing things very similarly to more traditional search firms. And the pandemic really forced us to take a closer look at what we do, how we do it and why we do it that way. So we did start to think much more clearly about continuous improvement in 2021 after the pandemic. So the methodologies will evolve with the time and I'm gonna talk about that a little more specifically with this middle one on innovation and adaptability because we think that is key. The

075speed of education matters and I think search processes need to keep up with that as well. So the next couple of slides we'll talk about the innovation adaptability. Absolutely we think transparency is going to be the most important part of a successful search. That'll come apparent here in a little bit but we do believe that MSBA is the most transparent search process that you can possibly utilize and I'm gonna share with you some reasons why that is. So these slides simply take those six things that people do at a search firm and it breaks them out into what MSBA does that is perhaps different but again more detail is in this proposal right here. So first creating a leadership profile. That's a partnership between board members, the search firm and members of the public staff,

076community members, students, et cetera. So every single year we refresh our hiring criteria because things do change. Five years ago AI was probably not in consideration as something that your superintendent as a leader really needed to be aware of. So we've added things along the way over the last few years as education has evolved. So the hiring criteria is what you as a board will take a survey on. We will then take your survey information and we'll craft a leadership profile for your review. Also you'll be gathering information from the public staff, students, et cetera. You can choose timing wise to build the leadership profile before all of that information is gathered or after all of that information is gathered. With it currently being the middle of January I'd probably recommend the board creating the

077leadership profile and using information that you gather from the input opportunities for your public to support that rather than waiting. Then if you'd started this a few months ago you might have been able to wait, have a leadership profile that you put together with all of your feedback as well as the public. In this case though I'd encourage you to think about the profile being created by the board in combination with MSBA's work as well. You are unique and so I talked a little bit about board and stakeholder but your Vision 2031 is so exciting. Obviously that's going to be a very big part of developing the right profile for the next leader here in your district. And the timing I mentioned because you do not have the luxury of time as much right now.

078It is high search season. I'd encourage you to think about releasing the leadership profile sooner rather than later. And we'll talk some more about gathering input from your communities to support and see whether it aligns with what you're thinking of or not. Public engagement opportunities. This is something everyone does. Everyone does it differently. I will tell you that we have created some things in the last few years that no one else does. This has come in part from the feedback loop that we seek from all of our clients as well as all of our candidates. At the end of each search season we send out surveys and say hey, what did you think of the search? What went well? What could we do better? We take that very seriously and a couple of things we

079have added just in the last few years are the first two here. Search preview meetings are held with internal district leadership. So that would be typically administrators and also leadership of your bargaining units. So we wanna meet with those groups. We can do as many groups as you need. We can do them virtually or in person. And we wanna share information with them before the search really gets rolling because those folks internally have so much credibility and they have so many contacts that we wanna make sure they have the information they need to feel comfortable being asked questions about the search process. So for example, the search preview meetings, when I sit down with those folks, I'll share information out. I'll share with them the timeline that the board has decided upon, the vacancy brochure

080and the leadership profile and the public summary information opportunities through a survey, focus groups, et cetera. So I'm sharing information out. I'm also answering their questions and I'm gonna be going to ask for their help because the more people that are involved in this process early on, that's for the better because it will prevent misinformation from taking root and we want to at all costs avoid rumors starting and people not understanding what's happening and why and when. So the search preview meetings were added maybe two years ago, two or three years ago and they've proven to be a very, very effective way to loop in your internal district leadership immediately. Now the Q&A with MSBA sessions, we've been doing those for about three years, maybe four years. And that came about because people had questions

081and they wanted to know what's going to happen. Leadership transitions create a lot of anxiety. There's a lot of emotion involved. There are a lot of rumors that do start, unfortunately. So the Q&A session is something that we host. It's a Zoom meeting and we hold it at maybe four o'clock on a weekday afternoon and we answer questions no matter who they are. We present the leadership profile, the vacancy brochure, the timeline and the opportunity for input through the surveys and the focus groups. But we also record it because we know people cannot all come at four o'clock on a Thursday, something like that. But because people are so busy, the vast majority of folks watch this online, not necessarily the live session. But to accommodate their questions, we have a survey link that we

082send out that says what questions do you have about the process? Anyone and everyone, whether they are a community member, parent, student, they can send those questions to me in advance and I will be sure to answer those questions during the live session. So if they can't join us during the live session, they will watch the recording at a later time, hear their questions answered. So that has been a really important way for us to keep transparent information in front of everyone because it goes on the district website through the entirety of the search. So if any of you as board members are asked a question, for example, that you don't know an answer to or aren't comfortable answering, you can ask that person, have you watched the Q&A online? People, when they go watch

083that, often have no more questions. But it has been something we added two, three years ago, I think, and it's been proven to be very, very helpful. So we do provide a public survey also very early in the process. We think that that is the most equitable way to gather information from all of the different school communities here in Hopkins Public Schools. We will also do listening sessions and focus groups. I wanna share a couple of thoughts on this though. First and foremost, we feel the survey instrument is the very best way to gather information and level the playing field between how loud the voices are heard. Because very, very often what happens with the focus groups is there are barriers to access. People are unable to come to those sessions because they might do

084shift work or they don't have childcare or they don't have transportation or they don't want to be out in public or they don't speak English as their first language. So there's many ways for people to be excluded from the listening sessions and focus groups. We will certainly do those. We just want you to think very carefully about how we design those and who comes and how people are able to participate. The survey instrument has proven to be an exceedingly effective way to hear all of the voices. We offer it automatically in three languages, English, Spanish, and Somali. We can do other languages if you request those. Certainly we might need the help with translators inside the district. Google Translate is not always the best tool to put them in different languages. However, those three are

085offered Spanish, Somali, and English. We also provide it in hard copy because for ADA reasons, first and foremost, not everybody can or will use an electronic copy. So we want to have that available to people. Also, hard copies can often be shared by a trusted resource within the district. Often marginalized communities, they don't know me. They don't necessarily want to come and talk to me about something, but they'll talk with cultural liaisons. They'll talk with staff they trust. Maybe their own students can help them take the survey. So we want to be as inclusive as possible. And so we do run that survey for maybe five weeks, four to five weeks at this point in the year. And we get a great deal of feedback that we provide to you in a public engagement summary

086report. We weave in all of the information from the stakeholder survey as well, excuse me, the focus groups as well. And I want to mention the student-friendly version because that is one that we added this year. It is the exact same survey in plain language. So when people take the survey, for example, online, and they click on self-identifiers, I'm a parent and guardian, or I'm a staff or I'm a student, when they click student, they go to a survey that is the exact same survey. The language, however, is sort of how they speak more often. And the simplest example I give is instead of saying fiscal infrastructure or fiscally responsible, it's money. So the language is much more simple. And we want to get as much student voice in this as possible. So we work

087with the high school and the middle school to perhaps allow time in advisory periods for students to take this survey. We never want to require anybody to take it, particularly students, you probably have a policy around that, and yet by setting some time aside during free periods, we get a lot of student voice. And it is extremely interesting to see what they say. We'll separate out their responses from everyone else as well. And our reports, if you want to see some reports, you can see some searches we're currently doing. If you go to their landing page, you can find the public engagement summary report if you want to see the kind of information we provide. But we really think that's important to get those voices heard. There's a little space right there between listening sessions

088and district tours because the opportunities for people to be involved in the search process come early or come late. So early, we just talked about all of those opportunities. Later on in the process, you might want to involve your school communities in interviewing the finalists or collecting input from individuals in your staff or your parent groups about what they think of the finalists. There's several ways they can provide feedback to the board on the finalists themselves. Typically, it's done in round two when you're down to two or three people. If there are six people in that first round, you're asking a lot of members of the public to come and sit through eight, nine, 10 hours of interviews and opportunities to provide feedback. But there are a lot of different ways to do that. You

089also want to be careful to set expectations that are fair. For instance, don't call them a hiring committee if you do have committees involved because you are the hiring committee. The superintendent is the only employee the school board hires. You oversee this person. So we are very careful with semantics that perhaps input committees are included or search committees. We just don't want to give people unrealistic expectations that they get to decide who will be the next leader here in Hopkins. So all of those things are options as well. Meet and greets, community Q&As, district tours are always a wonderful idea. Some of these things, if you look at page 15, I think in our proposal, there is an additional charge, but only if it's something that is really creative. You are going to have opportunities

090no matter what. But if you want us, for example, to create an online forum that is open to everyone across the district to provide feedback on your finalists and you want us to digest and compile that information, that's a little extra work. So that might be an extra thousand dollars or so. But generally speaking, everything is included. I just realized I didn't tell you to look for one more thing in your packet here. So if you look on the right side of this folder, if you go past the PowerPoint, there's a very colorful page here as well. And this is one from a search we did last year. And one of the things we like about the survey opportunities, we can compare apples to apples what the board felt with members of your school communities

091as well. So for example, the specialized skills, the board survey on the left, you can see halfway down, those were the top seven that the board came up with. And on the right, that's the public input. Everybody who took the survey or participated in focus groups, those were their top seven. Now, what's interesting about this, for example, is this was out of, you have about 23 or 24 choices of hiring criteria. So if you look at this, the highlight indicate alignment between the board and members of the school communities. So you can see there was quite a bit there. And then the board had created the leadership profile up above based only on their specialized skills survey results. So the leadership profiles up above, which came from the specialized skills or hiring criteria survey. When

092we got information from the public, you can see there are a few things that the public prioritized that the board had not. And again, this is only the top seven out of 24 choices. So what you do in that case, when I talked earlier about the public, whether it aligns or doesn't align with the board, we wanna take that information because we use it in several different ways. I don't think you'd wanna modify your leadership profile. It's probably too far down the road if you choose to post this position fairly soon. And I have a feeling that you as elected representatives are in touch with your school constituents. And so you probably have the same goals as your public will. But if there are things that show up here, we're going to use them to

093screen the applications. And looking for things outside of your leadership profile and the public summary report, we will look for things specifically that your constituents have said are important to them, even if it's not in your top. We're going to use that information to also craft interview questions for the board to consider in developing both round one and in round two. And we will use it to help you in your deliberations of who to bring in for the interviews, who to move forward into a second round, and who to ultimately, hopefully, select as the lone finalist. So the information gleaned in an apples to apples comparison, and this is just one part of the overall survey report, has been really, really helpful to have boards look outside of what they came up with to the

094larger community as well. I'm just gonna keep talking because I have so much to say here, so excuse me for a moment. One of the things I think also that people don't understand about MSBA searches because they're different than other search firms is it's not prescribed from beginning to end. This is not a process that, at the planning meeting, we make decisions with you exactly what's going to happen from beginning to end every step of the way. Because things happen, information comes to light. You learn more, we learn more. We hear things in the survey we didn't expect. So you have spots along the way to pause, pivot, and make the decisions that are best for Hopkins. So we might have an idea of what the interviews are going to look like or how many

095people are you going to interview. We may have a sense of how you want to involve the community in the interviews. We don't want you making that decision, however, until after you've seen the public engagement summary report because there's going to be a lot in there so you'll be able to make a more informed decision. So the fact that it's not figured out all in advance is good because it allows you to customize this every single step of the way. But some people are uncomfortable with this because they want to know exactly how round two is going to go. And I'll say, well, I have an idea how it's going to go. There are certain statutes that will apply to your interview process. And there's going to be some more information provided to the board

096before they make a decision specifically about round two. So that's a little different than some, I think, because it does kind of unfold as we go. I do want to talk about advertising the position here next. And this will be on all the sites, locally, nationally, and regionally. There's another sheet behind the colorful sheet called Advertising and Recruiting. This simply provides for you some insights into where we post this position. We think the AASA, the National Superintendent's Association, Administrative Association, we pay to boost the posting to 31 different diversity jobs boards as well. We get some wonderful candidates that are looking for jobs in Minnesota. And they found us on these jobs boards, in addition to perhaps finding us on MSPA, or MASA, or EdPost, or in Rebellis. I want to mention Rebellis for just

097a moment, because it is a proprietary application database that is available only to school board associations that do superintendent search. So if someone, for example, is looking at jobs through their superintendent search, superintendent school board association search services, they'll see these applications or opportunities in Minnesota, regardless of if they're in Florida, or Michigan, or Wisconsin, or Nebraska. They're going to see Minnesota's opportunities because school board associations are doing more and more and more searches nationally. So it will be in Rebellis as well, the proprietary database. I want to talk about Power of the Grapevine, because word of mouth is extremely powerful, probably one of the most powerful as well. And this is where I rely on those five service providers, because their networks are quite deep, and they are going to help drum up interest

098in this opportunity. I am going to talk here at the end a little bit more about our recruiting philosophy, because it's different. But I will tell you again that I trust and believe in so deeply the people who are on our team that I know we're going to have a phenomenal pool if we are fortunate enough to be selected to work with you on this search. In terms of recruiting candidates, NASS, the National Affiliation of Superintendent Searchers, we will be the only firm you visit with that are members of that organization. The folks I talked about earlier are extraordinarily well connected. We did add a national recruiter last year, Josh Pauley, who I mentioned is on our team. He is in the private sector, but he does recruit nationally for MSBA. He goes to a

099lot of conferences with a QR code for MSBA openings. He visits with people and tells them to give me a call if they're interested in coming to Minnesota to work here as well. And I'm so old, he was a former student of mine at Jamblone Park High School. Really? Yes. I just met with him this morning, so I will have to tell him I know this now. So that's wonderful to hear, Dr. Mary Peartree. We'll forget about the old part, but it is a very fun connection. That is great to hear. I do want to talk about our national presence a little bit because I think that we've gotten the short end of the stick a little bit because people do speak about our lack of national experience. So I want to take a moment

100to clear that up. Yes, we are the Minnesota School Boards Association. We specialize in Minnesota searches. We only do searches in Minnesota. We also only do superintendent searches. That is it. We are not looking for associate superintendents. We're not looking for director levels. We're not looking for teachers, staff at all. It is purely superintendents and purely Minnesota. So our connections there I think are important. However, I'll just give you a snapshot of last year's searches, if I may. Last year in MSBA's searches, we had a total of 376 applications for our searches that we did last year. Of those 376 applications, they came from 34 different states across the country. So we had people applying for our jobs in one year from 34 different states. Also currently our database, Revellis, has 789 profiles and profiles

101are what candidates who are seeking work in Minnesota need to fill out first before they can apply for a position. So work history, transcripts, licensure, all of that needs to be uploaded for the profiles. Of those 789 profiles, that includes administrators looking to come here from 27 different states and three different countries. So I think our reach is as broad as anyone's and people are now beginning to realize that if they go to the MSBA website, they will see the opportunities here in Minnesota. They are not limited only to our searches. We will post any positions that are being conducted by districts themselves. We do have a number of districts that take our workshop on hiring the right superintendent, and then to save funds, they do conduct their own search. So theirs go on there

102as well. But I think the misinformation about our national presence is something that we are trying to overcome and correct. And I think just the searches we've done in the last five years alone should prove that we do have a very large national footprint now. National, or Minnesota presence, we talked about that. Now I'm gonna talk about recruiting philosophy. Because we do not serve as a gatekeeper between the school board and candidates, the philosophy differs in that we don't invite people to apply and people know that they don't need to hear from us in order to apply. It is a wide open search. Anyone can apply for this job and have a shot at this job because we don't have a stable of people that we are trying to place. We don't work for the

103candidates at all. We work for the school boards only. So we aren't trying to place anyone in this position. However, we will make sure they know about it. Word of mouth, I keep going back to that as well. There are, at last check, 1,549 people who have Minnesota superintendent licenses. That's a lot of people. And no search firm anywhere could possibly know who is the best of the best of those 1,549 license holders as a superintendent. So we think our philosophy to make sure people know it's wide open, that they can contact any of us, anyone on my team, directly contact me. Anyone, anytime, we all have cell phones on and check our emails seven days a week during search season. We think that results in a much stronger pool. And it also, in a

104way counter-intuitively, does result in a more diverse pool. Because one of the things that was shared with me about three years ago has meant more to me than I can possibly say is, I've had a couple of different people say this. I wanna be careful that I'm not being critical of any other process being used to recruit candidates. However, I heard from, I don't even wanna give away, I heard of candidates have told me that they felt like they had a shot at this job and they told me it was the first time they have not felt tokenized in a superintendent search. Very often, there may be the sense that, oh, they're just calling me because they need a more diverse pool. And they're telling me I have a shot at this job and maybe

105I do. Sometimes though, some people in our circles of administrators in Minnesota have felt used. And so they've quit taking calls from recruiters because it does feel sometimes as though because they are different, maybe they are female, maybe they're a person of color, that they are perhaps being recruited for a reason other than the qualities they bring to this job. And so it's more equitable in our opinion for people to come find this job. If they align, they align. If they want the job, they should apply. We will tap people on the shoulders through our networks of people who might need to be encouraged to look at the opportunity. You've all seen the statistics of people who won't apply unless they meet 100% of the leadership profile. 60%, 40%, and gender-wise, it's very different. So

106we wanna make sure that we are reaching out to the emerging leaders here in Minnesota. We have a strong partnership with the Aspiring Superintendents Academy at MASA. I speak at that every single time they have that. We speak at MASA conferences about superintendent search. So people do know that our recruiting philosophy works. And so that's all I'm gonna say about for right now. But I'm really proud of the differences we have in how we recruit because we do recruit. It's just not an aggressive recruitment and it's not an invitation to apply. It is an opportunity we present to as many people as possible and we leave it up to them to decide if they want to throw their hat in the ring or not. Okay, I'm gonna move along a little more quickly. And I

107just wanna do a quick time check. We have about five to seven minutes. Okay, thank you. So we are going to vet the applications and we will recommend to you who we feel are the strongest. Everyone is gonna see this. We will do bias training with your board. There's unconscious bias in superintendent search like there is everywhere. You can call me in advance of the meeting where you're gonna discuss private data in a public meeting. You can talk to me one-on-one because I will let the board know, hey, you've seen the applications. I will let you know about two days beforehand that these are the folks we're recommending. Please call me if you wanna find out why or why not because I'm not gonna discuss that in a public meeting. No identifiable information can be

108shared in that meeting but I will talk to you one-on-one as well. We include in-depth background checks, educational credentials, work history with all of the semi-finalists and finalists. That is included as a nationwide criminal database check as well. Please talk to our references. There's also a page in here with some representative quotes but because we do the survey every single year, we have a lot of quotes at our disposal and you saw them all through the process in the proposal as well. We partner with MSBA, excuse me, MASA and BOSA, BOSA on just about everything. I'm gonna skip over the interview process because it's nothing truly special other than communicate, communicate, communicate. Clarify expectations so people know what to expect. No matter who it is, we wanna make sure they know what's going to happen.

109I'm gonna jump past this. That's a Tiger Woods quote there if you're a fan of Tiger Woods and this one is a Winston Churchill quote. We don't get better more than once a year. We actually do it during the, we added the student survey, for example, during search season this year. So as something comes up that improves the process, we will do that. All we do is school board leadership. That is our one and only focus. Our mission is to support and educate school boards and it's no difference in superintendent search work. Two hallmarks of our process. I think we communicate better than anyone. I think we are more transparent than anyone else. There are no hidden fees. You can take a look at our page 15 in the proposal for more detail on that.

110The post-hiring support, the transition workshops are invaluable. That's where we meet with the new board team and we make sure that all of you are on the same page about expectations for their first year and all of you are on the same page about performance evaluation metrics and what you're looking for for them to accomplish in their first year. They'll be drinking out of a fire hose, but we will help you come up with goals or standards and elements that do reflect that. We often get asked how long do you stay engaged after the hire is made? And that answer, because we're MSBA, is forever. You know where to find us. We will be there forever. We will answer any question from anyone on the board or the superintendent for as long as they are

111here so we stay very engaged. Now, because of the partnership importance, the superintendent's a member of your board team. Again, I mentioned MASA. I talked a little bit about their conferences. I talked a little bit about how we work with them, but their model contract is a joint effort between MSBA and MASA. Both associations believe in and support what's in the model superintendent contract. Our superintendent evaluation process also is something that we have partnered with MASA on as well. We speak at their conference and we speak at the Aspiring Soups Conference as well. BOSA, the only thing I wanna mention about that is that we work with them to make sure that they're gonna have a license if they're gonna work in Minnesota. We look through every application and if they are an out-of-state applicant,

112we put them in touch with Karen Schaub, the executive director at BOSA. We send them a list of what they need to know about getting a Minnesota superintendent license. There is no reciprocity here. Out-of-state candidates often make that mistake and assume if they're a superintendent somewhere else, they can work here. They can if they get a provisional license, so we work really closely with BOSA on that. And we wanna make sure that they are supported. So candidates have told us because we survey all of them as well, what went well, what could have done better. People feel like we communicate accurately. We don't wanna set candidates up to fail. We're very clear with them and expectations. And the last thing I'll mention, because I'm sure I'm just about out of time, is the unparalleled depth

113of Minnesota knowledge. There are statutes that apply to superintendent search that not everyone will know about and they are very often obscure. For example, many people think veteran's preference applies to superintendents. It does not. If you are related to a candidate to the fourth degree, it changes the voting structure. Has to be a unanimous vote of the full board. That's something people often don't know. The open meeting law is very different in our state than other states. The Government Data Practices Act is very different from other states as well. I have peers across the country that do superintendent search for their school board associations and they cannot believe the degree that we have in terms of transparency that's required in Minnesota. But those laws are important. I'm next door to Terry Morrow in my office

114and down the hall from Gary Lee and Tiffany Gustin. I rely on them a great deal. So here's a list of searches. I'm not gonna go through them other than recency is important. Some of the firms you're talking to have probably worked with some of these districts. We have done all of the most recent searches for all of these districts. And if they've done a repeat search, we have done the repeat search for them as well. We're very proud of the work we've done in the last five years in particular because that's when we implemented the continuous improvement model. And I think at this point, I'm not gonna go through this slide because you know who you are. This simply says why Hopkins Public Schools, not for us, but for candidates. People are very interested

115in this opportunity because of these things. They've contacted us. Some are interested in this search more than other searches we are currently conducting because you are truly unique. With that, I will stop and open it up for questions from the board. And I will leave that up. And I am thankful I spoke really fast, but I almost got through it all and not quite. Thank you. Thank you so much. That was right on time. Very impressive. And I wanted to just mention too that I think that we had discussed as a board and also you and I mentioned that Hopkins is wanting to do the superintendent training, search training with MSBA. So I just wanted to remind our community and also the board that MSBA will truly be with us during this process. I know

116Terry's number and use it frequently to check in with him. So that is a resource because we are a member district that we will carry with us. So just wanted that as a reminder. And the process that we're following is that each board member will get an opportunity to ask a question and then again to ask another one. I was reminded by our wonderful school board assistant that I neglected to walk us through the process of approving our agenda for this evening. So I did call the meeting to order. However, we have not approved our agenda, although we are following it to the letter. So well done us. So at this point, I would look for a motion to approve tonight's agenda. So moved. I have a motion. Is there a second? Second. I have

117a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. The chair votes aye. And the agenda for tonight's meeting is approved. And we will go right back into the new business, part B, MSBA Superintendent Search Firm Proposal. And I would invite Clerk WG to ask her first question. Great. Thank you. Thanks for your presentation and being with us. So actually, the two most significant questions that I had coming in, you answered, which the one was around national recruitment. And I actually don't need follow up with that. I thought I really appreciated how you directly addressed that. So I just want to name that. But that was one of my questions. The other that I was wondering about is part of the community constituents that we want to hear

118from our students. You also answered that. So I think just one thing I would want to note more so, and just for us, and I want it to be said here, if we do move forward with a leadership profile, just with the timing considerations, I think one of the things I would want us to be really intentional about is highlighting how, if we did work with you on this, we have all of these opportunities along the way to ensure profound, deep listening and collaboration and input from our community, and just that our communication along the way, we're being so clear about that, because I think that's a concern from some of our community members, is if they thought the board was just like, we just decided, we don't really care what you think, thanks for

119sharing. And not that I think that's what we'd be doing, but I think us being incredibly intentional in our communication and evidencing like in then the interview questions, hey, here's where the community input has now shaped and nuanced our leadership profile. Hey, here's how we are involving community voices in these moments along the way. So I just more so wanted to note that, and I don't have any further questions. Thank you, Dr. Mary Perry-Reed. Thank you, Chair. Barb, I had a question about how you interface with candidates, either once you're discerning that their candidacy may be declining through the process, or in the event that they are not selected to advance by the board, and I know that you interact with a lot of licensed superintendents throughout the state and a lot of candidates, and

120I'm wondering specifically how you communicate with candidates who are eventually not selected, right? Knowing that you'll have to maybe engage with them another time in the future, or should they apply for another district that you are helping to support? That's a great question. Thank you for asking it. So we take great care to treat all candidates respectfully, honestly, and transparently. I believe our reputation with candidates that have made it to a certain point in the search process and were not successful in being selected, that they, if they'd like feedback from us, we will provide it. And so I hate to use the word coaching because that sounds, that's not quite right. Feedback, however, is really important. So for instance, people who are interested in this opportunity very often may call me and say, hey, I'm

121thinking about Hopkins, and do you have time to set up a Zoom call? So we'll set up a time to visit, and I want those folks who have not been through a process before to understand that our process is different, particularly in that all of you will see those applications so that they're not needing to curry favor with the search firm to be considered. So that might mean that their references are not all administrators. Maybe they can include a reference from a school board member or a parent. So it's a different lens that I give feedback in advance if they ask about. Then if they are not selected for an interview, very often people call and say, what can I do to strengthen my application? And we will provide that feedback to them as well.

122If it's not myself, it's one of the folks that helped me conduct searches as well. I also want to treat them carefully in terms of data privacy. So it's a big risk in Minnesota to apply for a position if you are a sitting superintendent in particular. So there's some things to think about. One, when all of you are looking at the applications, we talk about data privacy to no end. And we will talk about the risks of looking at this information in the public, how you will speak about these candidates in a public meeting. So we want to make sure those names remain private. The only time a name goes public is if they are selected to be interviewed by the school board for a position. Now in statute, it defines that person as a

123finalist. If they're gonna be interviewed by you, they're considered a finalist in statute. However, round one is semi-finalist, so the semi-finalist names go public. If the board is going to conduct those interviews. Now, depending upon your policies, if you've adopted policy, I think it's policy 208, that says your committee meetings are not subject to the open meeting law. If the board is interested, you could conduct round one in committee. And those names would not go public, for example. Even though the full board would help select the semi-finalists, they still remain candidate ABC. Perhaps a subcommittee could interview them and those names won't go public. They'll come back for round two, recommendation from the subcommittee. That's really rare that a district will conduct it that way, but that's your choice. It is an option that you

124have at your, if it's okay with your attorney and it's in policy 208, you could connect these interviews round one, offsite, in private. And the last thing I'll say is for the folks who have interviewed with us and been unsuccessful, we call them immediately to let them know of the decision of the board. They are disappointed, always. And so we say, take a few days, call me if you'd like feedback on the interview. Because sometimes there is something they're doing in the interview that is causing the board not to feel as comfortable with them as perhaps someone else. And we'll provide that kind of coaching to them as well. But only upon request. We don't decide that we need to tell every candidate how they should do this because it's their career, they're gonna decide

125what to do, but we will provide feedback upon request at every single stage of this process. And we survey them at the end of the year. All candidates who either applied or were interviewed or hired, they can tell us anonymously what went well and what didn't go so well. And we get very high marks for our transparency with the candidates. And we get some good suggestions of what we could do better. Thank you. Thank you. My first question is, have you ever run into a situation where you couldn't find the right fit? And how would you manage it? Great question. That happens occasionally. And sometimes it's a matter of timing. Because we do the vast majority of searches in Minnesota, so we've probably done 250 in the last 10 years. There are going to be

126times in that occasion where a search doesn't start until March or April. Boards always have the option of hiring an interim instead before they start a search. But last year we started a search in April, March, April. We did it in six weeks instead of three months or three and a half months. We did it in six weeks, it was very successful. And yet, if they had not found that person who was right for their district, we would have said, okay, tell you what, let's hit pause, we'll find an interim at no charge. We have a whole list of people that want to serve as interims in public schools across Minnesota, former superintendents. So we'll help you find that interim. And we won't bill you until you actually have a sitting superintendent. So the next

127year we'd start the search over again, do everything again, no charge. You will not be charged until you have chosen this last finalist. And if it's not this year and it's the next year, you wouldn't get charged a penny until then. But we do a lot of work with districts that are seeking interims even if we're not doing a superintendent search for them. And we don't charge for any of our interim search work either. And sometimes it's not a question of fit, it's a question of running out of time, or the pool is not as strong as you want. And that's one of those instances where you could pause the search and decide at that point, you're gonna suspend it, look for an interim instead. I would prefer that you not go through round one

128to make the decision to pause the search because those people have gone public, or even round two, and yet this is your search. So we have had boards that after round two say, still don't think we found the right person. And I need to call those candidates and let them know the board has decided to reopen the position or get an interim and come back the next year with another search. I really would prefer that if the pool's not who you are hoping to hire, that you don't let those names go public. It's a consideration I think as a professional courtesy that you don't interview people you cannot see sitting in that chair. But sometimes it happens for whatever reason. Thank you. So if I heard you correctly, you, if that situation does happen at

129some point in the process, and the board chooses to call a pause, you help us find an interim. And then when we want to restart the process, maybe next year, you will be there to help us run the process again. And all of this is included in the original? Correct. Like, correct. Wow. Okay, thank you. Appreciate that. Vice Chair Roper. Thank you so much. Thank you, Chair Andreessen. Thank you so much for the presentation and just laying out things. I know that I've been through a few of the MSBA trainings and the conference and you all are very intentional in how you engage with school boards. So thank you for that. Just listening to one of your statements, however, just about like the tokenism and candidates and some candidates maybe feeling like they're being chosen

130just because of their race or maybe because of their gender. And although that is a consideration, I'm wondering how does your firm approach equity in its decision-making when supporting districts with explicit equity commitments? Great question. Thank you. So first and foremost, the inclusiveness of this district is a very high priority and people know this about your district. So what very often happens when the leadership profile is published and the results of the public engagement summary report, we ask candidates to take a good hard look at that to see if from a values perspective, they align with the values of this district. We don't want people to try to fit into a box that does not suit them. So we will work with them to ensure they understand the importance of those things before applying for

131this position. If they are going to, if they have, and this is what we sometimes ascertain through the pre-interviews that we do with the candidates, if they have a check the box mentality on what diversity, equity and inclusion is, not a fit. It needs to be intentional and thoughtful and a part of who they are as a person and as a human being. So they'll do the research on this district. They'll go to MDE and look at all the reports. They will go to your website. They will read the vision strategic plan. They will do all of that. And we want them to understand what this board is looking for because you are a different board than other districts are. Every board is unique. So we do a lot of searches and yet searches are

132never the same because the boards are different and the district is different and their equity commitment is different. So we won't ever tell you what you should do unless it's within the bounds of the law. It's like looking for the right person is a you decision, not an MSBA decision because we don't live here, work here, breathe here, raise our kids here. So you're elected to do that and so we trust you to make these decisions and we will certainly make recommendations and we will defer to the board every single time in terms of knowing what's best for the kids that go to school in Hopkins. So it's central and I know that already from your school board that it is central to finding this person. It cannot be performative at all. Has to be

133who they are, right? Yes, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate you emphasizing that it has to be a part of who you are and just not something that you're looking to do in a performative matter because that just, I think that really matters to our community. And also just with that, I know that there are a lot of superintendent searches going on right now for multiple districts and so I think, oh, oh yeah, sorry. Yes, I will. Thank you. Okay. Director Zhao. Hi, thank you, Barb. I appreciate the presentation and being here. One question, we are, most of us have not done a superintendent search before. So I'm curious to talk to you and understand advice and how we should evaluate candidates, right? What separates a good candidate from an okay candidate

134and how can we figure out who can kind of personally or would their leadership affect change? Great question. So you'll have access to the applications once the deadline has passed. We don't want you sort of going in and out looking at the applications as they come in and out because sometimes people withdraw. They submit and then they're like, oh, I don't know. So they might pull out. So once it's passed, we'll provide you with those applications. It will be an overwhelming amount of information to look at. So what I do is I say a couple of things. First, go through the list and everyone deserves a shot. Correct? So when you look at the information in the database, don't try to look at everything because you could spend an hour to two hours reading everything.

135I would say read their cover letter, look at their resume, read their answers to the questions that are specific to Hopkins in the application and read their letters of recommendation. Those are the sort of the four big things. They'll give you a sense of who they are. It's a very simple thing to look at, just those four. Then I would say create piles, yes, no, and maybe. There are gonna be some people in your pool that you instantly know, I wanna interview this person. Yep, yep. And maybe it's because you already know them. Education is kind of a small world, but that's a yes. And there will be people that you're gonna go, no. You read their experience, their background, you read their cover letter. You won't wanna interview them. You got a whole bunch

136of people in the maybe category. I would take a deeper dive into those folks and look maybe at more in-depth at their work history. Maybe take a closer look at their transcripts, possibly, depending upon how recent some of those things are. But I always say you have to upload all of your transcripts, but what people did when they were 22, 21 years old, don't consider that necessarily as a determining factor. But the maybe's are the ones where you wanna kind of put them in piles. Do not do a social media sweep on the people that are in your pool, because that's our job. We're gonna be vetting people. We will do the social media sweep. We will get all, not two sides of the story, we'll get all five sides of the story, because you

137know how crazy it is in social media right now. We want people to have an opportunity that is fair to them. And I can't tell you how many times you Google someone, you see a story and it's like, oh, I don't wanna speak with them. And yet we see value in that person, and we talk to them, and there is a perfectly good explanation for what is in the paper, or what the rumors are. A good leader is going to have people who do not like them very much. They will have perhaps made tough decisions. Those folks are not gonna be supporters of them. When the names go public, you're going to be lobbied for and against people. And we want you to give people grace and say thank you for your input. We don't

138want you as board members debating your constituents about who should and shouldn't be in the pool, or who's gonna be interviewed. But we talk to you about how to do that. So that's what I'd look for. The two documents we always say go back to is the leadership profile and that summary report of the public input. Those are your two big drivers. Meanwhile, we're doing a lot deeper dive on every single person in your pool. Some board members choose to take a very cursory look very quick, and then wait to see who we're recommending. And we're probably gonna talk to eight to 12 people that we think are strongest. We're gonna try and get it down to six. But once you know who we're recommending, then some board members say, now I'm gonna go look

139at those six people much deeper because MSBA is bringing those forward to us next week. So that was a lot, but that was just my initial thought about how to as lay people because it's a lot. Have any of you been a superintendent before? Dr. Mary Preried doesn't count you, but any board members? Okay, I'm aware of three people out of 2,500 board members statewide that were superintendents at one time. So they understand the job and the hiring is maybe easier, maybe not for them. But otherwise, it's awkward for us as regular folks to be hiring someone who has gone to school for years and years and years, but it's a partnership. You're the governance, they're the management. And working together, this district can just, it's exciting. But I wanna acknowledge it's awkward to review

140applications when you don't do this for a living. Thank you. Yeah. I second everything my colleagues have said tonight. Thank you so much for coming. And giving an excellent presentation. I have a question about developing the leadership profile. You have shared that our current strategic plan will help inform the leadership profile we develop for the superintendent. And I think there may be or there will be an expectation that the next superintendent be asked to lead or support a review of the current strategic plan. And so can you talk about how MSBA balances those two realities when developing the leadership profile? It's complicated, but yes, I will tell you what I think. So I think that the board's role is to set the vision for the district. You are the governing body, the superintendent works for

141you. They will provide leadership around a refresh of a strategic plan, and yet they are not setting the vision for the district, that's the job of the school board, correct? So it gets messy with strategic planning if you look at the governance model, when a superintendent wants to lead the visioning, they can facilitate visioning, absolutely, because all of you as board members are the ones that will be setting that vision and holding the superintendent accountable to reach that vision. So I think understanding the relationship between a superintendent and a school board is going to be critical. And so I think you'd want a candidate who understands what a high functioning school board looks like and knows how to work with the board in a way that doesn't usurp your authority, and yet provides you the

142support and the information and the guidance to take the district where it really needs to go. And so sometimes that's a prioritization. I talk a lot about the high priorities in the district, and then you have higher yet and you have highest priorities. The highest priorities are what's gonna be in your strategic plan. That's also what you should base your leadership profile on because that's what's gonna move the needle. If you have a two page leadership profile, it's gonna be very difficult for a candidate to really figure out if they fit here or not. So you wanna have a profile that is succinct and clear and based on what is most, most important to the school board in Hopkins Public Schools. So I think it's about relationships. They should not come in and just say,

143this isn't a great strategic plan, I want something different. That's not their job, right? It's your job. Right, I think my question is if the, you know, the superintendent is hired, say by July 1st, and then this board sitting here wants to revise or review the strategic plan, how do we evaluate candidates now when we may be, you know, looking to the future or changing, not changing the direction, but reworking the strategic plan? I think you could ask about it in the interviews. And maybe it's a question you ask about in the application because the questions in the application are meant to help you decide who you wanna bring in for an interview. If you wanna ask about what have they done in strategic planning or implementation, when have they worked with school boards and

144at what stage of a strategic planning process, a good leader is gonna be able to come in and step in at whatever point you're at. I would say it's a pretty heavy lift their first year when they're new to the district perhaps. I think they're gonna have the right skill set for it. And you can ask very concrete questions, very behavior-based questions in your interviews that will help you figure out, do they really know how to guide us through this? Do they know how to lead without telling us what to do? All those kinds of things. So it is complex like I started with. Sorry if I missed your question off right away, but how long is the plan? Is it through 2031, truly, the plan right now? Yes. So it's out there five more

145years. Yes, with an expectation I think that the new superintendent would work with the community to review the plan. Right, and that is having gone through this process, when Dr. Meera Peery-Reed was new, this was her process, right? And in intermediate district 287, the new superintendent came on and we have a new strategic plan. It is fairly customary that that is something that new superintendents undertake when they come on. And I think you addressed the question very well. Thank you. You said no questions, you haven't changed your mind? Thank you, no, I'm good, thank you. Great. Dr. Meera Peery-Reed, did you have a second question? My last question is, so there are some people reaching out to me just to sit down for coffee. Do you have any advice or guidance on what is helpful

146for the current superintendent to share with potential candidates, or maybe what's not helpful? I mean, obviously I'm gonna try to use my most professional discretion, but just any advice that you typically offer when this question is asked. Yeah, and thank you for asking that. So one of the things we talk about at the planning meeting is the role of the current superintendent, and what would you like that role to be? Typically, there is no role other than to serve as an ambassador for the district, to answer questions from candidates about what is it like to work in Hockpins? Can you tell me a little bit more about the board? Things such as that, but typically the superintendent doesn't come to the superintendent search planning meeting. They don't come to the, any of the meetings really,

147the special meetings that are a part of the search process. One thing I would caution for sitting superintendent is be careful that the expectation isn't to have, to meet in person with people. There is sort of this, like I don't meet people for coffee ever, candidates that are interested. I don't wanna be wooed, right? I want to provide the information they need to decide if this is the job for them. If I were to have coffee with some people and not with others, people talk, and people will say, well, she met with her for coffee, but she didn't have time to meet with him, and they start to feel like there's a hierarchy in terms of their chances to get this job. So I often caution superintendents to do the same thing, is to take

148phone calls, to visit with people. You could have a Zoom meeting, answer questions. Just be careful not to get pulled into helping people one more than another, because that word will get out. It's like, oh, well, I had lunch with Dr. Mary Peery Reid. You didn't have lunch? Hmm. It just starts to feel uneven. So I always just say be really careful that everyone is treated the same. But boy, an ambassador for the district talking about the wonderful things happening here, if you're willing to take those calls, can be invaluable. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I wanted to just quickly check with Vice Chair Roper. Were you going to ask the question about how many other districts MSBA is working with and capacity, is that where you were headed? No, I was. Oh, okay. Then

149I will ask that question, because that's my question. I just didn't want to steal your question. Thank you. So I'm well aware, just because I talk with other board members in other districts, that you are involved in other superintendent searches in other districts currently. And I think that is something that we're wondering about how, so I know that you mentioned that there are six people in your firm that will be working exclusively to Hopkins. Wondering if I'm hearing that correctly and meaning that they're all six gonna be working only with us. Or what is the capacity of the firm? And would there be some sort of conflict running searches, because I know YZ is running one. I think you're wrapping up, Edina, they just announced that their interim is staying. So that isn't, but I

150know you're working with some other districts, so I'm just wondering about that. And thanks for the chance to clarify. So the folks that work with me on the superintendent search team work exclusively in superintendent search. Because of the number of searches we do and the number of people that we have involved, we would be working on searches perhaps simultaneously. Some are way up north, some are in the southeast, some are in the metro. So thank you for asking that question. So yes, exclusively on superintendent search. That's all that we do. I have absolutely no concerns about capacity because of the number of people we have helping us, the service providers that are there, as well as the resources within MSBA. If you look at the resumes in the proposal, you'll see an awful lot of

151people at MSBA touch superintendent search, but are not full-time in the search process. So our marketing communications team, our technology team, there are people at MSBA, I'm sure you know, and their resumes are in here, that do help us with a lot of different parts of this process. So I would say we're a well-oiled machine. We also work extremely hard, and during search season we put in as many hours as are necessary to do a good job for the members that trust us with the search process. So I have no concerns about capacity. I also think doing other searches at the same time can be a real asset, because you're, for some candidates, kind of a one-stop shop, and they're able to ask very pragmatic questions about the different searches that we are conducting and

152choose for themselves, which one they might want to apply for. Some people might choose to apply for all of them. If asked, I would discourage that, because you want someone who wants this job, not any job. So we know a lot of people and talk to an awful lot of people during search season, and because we're not going to talk people into applying for this one or that one, I don't see any conflict of interest at all, because it's 100% in the hands of the candidate to decide where they want to throw their hat, not up to us. So I don't see that as a problem at all, running concurrent searches. All right, thank you. Yeah, thanks for asking. Vice Chair Roper. Yes, hi, thank you. So my question is, now that you've kind of

153answered a little bit of, well, that you answered Chair Andreessen's question, it kind of simultaneously goes into mine. I was just wondering that, you know, there is a high number of superintendent searches happening. So it apparent that this job is potentially high burnout, maybe rewarding, right, but just want to be honest about like the burnout that comes with this position. And so was wondering when you are doing superintendent searches, what are some of the things that you're hearing from the candidates about that burnout aspect of the job? And then how are you promoting districts as kind of, I won't say like a soother, but like, how are you promoting districts to those candidates to where they feel confident about, you know, applying for the superintendent regardless of, you know, the burnout aspect of the role?

154And that's a loaded question, but just. It's really interesting because after the pandemic, some people, there was sort of a mass resignation. People got their districts through the pandemic and then they just, they were so burnt out from that, that there were a whole bunch of openings and not that many applicants. Now, despite how difficult the last year or two have been in public education, especially here in Minnesota, the numbers are back up again to like pre-pandemic levels. Good people are seeking opportunities to make a difference. I don't know that burnout is as prevalent as we might feel because of the passion that these people have to lead school districts. It is challenging and self-care is very important. And I know MASA as an organization provides professional development opportunities for all administrators in the state.

155And some of those things do focus on workload, work-life integration, not work-life balance. That's impossible, but I think that there's an awareness of it now so that people are setting up some boundaries around their time or when they will work. And it is not something I've seen the candidates I'm talking to aren't feeling burnt out, even if they're sitting soups, they are feeling frustrated and they are feeling challenged in ways they have not been challenged before, especially in terms of federal funding and student safety and mental health of staff and students, that is new. And yet I think they're embracing it. And it is extraordinarily rewarding. But I think the fact that the numbers are going back up in the applicant pools, they're not also people that, tire kickers is not the right word, but

156I think before the pandemic, we had lots of people applying that just wanted to see if they'd get an interview and they had a license, so I'll give it a shot. Now what we've seen since the pandemic, and especially now with the things, the way they are, people who want to be a superintendent or want to stay a superintendent, really want to do the work. They're not just on a whim saying, I wonder if I can get an interview in Hopkins. They really want this work. So again, it goes to personal values. I don't know, I've never been a superintendent myself, so I don't know how to avoid the burnout. I know that I'm working 70 hours a week for six months out of the year, and I don't burn out, because I just love

157what I do so much. I think it just comes down to each individual person. And districts can support them by recognizing that no one's perfect. And I think your expectations of your new superintendent need to be realistic. You can't expect them to read your mind. You need to talk about expectations that first year, so that all of you are on the same page, because they don't work for six or seven individual board members. They work for one body. The school board is a body. That's who they work for. And so hoping that they'll please every one of you individually is gonna set them up to fail. So that's why we talk about as a body, as a board, what do you expect from your superintendent? And then we try to adhere to that and remind

158you about that importance, because if they're trying to please all of you, they are going to probably leave. I don't think they'd burn out on the profession. I think they'd burn out on a board that asks them to, if you micromanage them and ask them to do everything each of you individually wants, I think they'd burn out on you, but not on being a superintendent. Does that align with your lived experience, Dr. Mary? I'm just joking. I have a wonderful board, but what you say is true, right? That a great leader will want to live up to and meet the expectations of their school board. And when the board is not operating as a single unit, that becomes very challenging, or when the expectations are unrealistic. And then, you know, then we're on a decline.

159Yes. Thank you. Director Zhao. Yeah, hopefully a quick one. But, you know, for a district of our size and complexity, I guess if you wanna call it that, do you generally see previous superintendents, you know, being the most successful? Is that not necessary? What are some of your thoughts there? Also another great question. There are some incredible administrators who are not currently superintendents. They could be very successful in a district this size, because they have, it's not as though they have to be everything to everybody. You know, we've done searches for districts that have two or 300 students, and we've done searches for districts that have more than 28,000 students. And so the process and everything that goes into being a superintendent is scalable based upon the size of the district. So you have people

160in the district, for example, who would be an expert in school finance. It's not all gonna be on the shoulders of the superintendent. You have HR expertise. They don't have to know everything about HR. So I think that, I think they would find this a really nice-sized district where they don't have to do everything and wear every single hat. And they have an incredible internal team who have specialty, areas of expertise. They can develop those leaders, strengthen from the inside as well, and lead and be the internal face and external face of this district when in the community. So yes. Did that answer your question? You said it might be short, did you try to keep it short? Yeah, no, I think it's possible, so that's helpful. They're really gonna look for three things before

161they apply for this. They're gonna look for your location, your salary, and your reputation. The biggest one is reputation. That's what's gonna draw people to any superintendent job. Some locations in this state are harder to fill than others, and there are two or three people apply. Other districts get 20, 25, 30 people applying. And it's those three factors, but I'll tell you the reputation is the one that makes the biggest difference. Thank you. And for our last question of the evening, Director Hyman. My last question is similar to Chair Andreessen's and Vice Chair Roper's question, but a little bit different. How do you approach situations, or how does MSBA in particular approach situations where a highly qualified candidate that lives in this area could be a strong fit for more than one district you're conducting

162searches for? I know you talked a little bit about it's up to the candidate to throw their hat in the ring. What if a candidate would be, is like, well, I like this one and I like this one. And how does that work? It usually comes down to timing. If they really truly are interested in both districts equally, it's just gonna come down to timing and who has the second round of interviews first, because if they get an offer from that district, they're going to take it. They're not gonna string them along waiting for the interview in the next district two weeks later. School boards expect an answer within a day of at least entering contract negotiations. So unfortunately, sometimes the tipping point is who interviews first, right? And I've had calls, because we are

163doing another search simultaneous and people were calling with interest in that and they would say, and I hear Hopkins is going to be opening up. That was my, yeah. I can tell you that several of the people that spoke to me about both opportunities said, I'm gonna wait for Hopkins. That's great to hear. I've heard that as well, yeah. Thank you. I believe this concludes our presentation and question and answer section. I would look for, before we move on to our next part, which is the deciding on which search firm we wanted to go through, I would ask the board, I know that Dr. Taylor waited to see if we would have questions during this time. So I'm wondering if the board feels comfortable having both search firms here at the table with us, so

164they are available when we ask questions or would you prefer to call them in if we have questions? So give me a feel on the temperature. I guess I would prefer to call them in if we have questions. Well, how do they feel about it? How do you feel about it? There's only one of them here to ask. Oh, yeah. Oh, did she leave or she? We asked her a question. No, but I think Natalia is going to get her. I agree with Brooke, or sorry, Vice Chair Roper. Okay. Sarah, yeah. Go ahead. Chair Andreessen, just to say as well, I think if it is possible for us to discern if we do have questions, and then that way, they wouldn't have to stay, depending on how long we take. Oh, that's great. So we

165could, yeah, we could just do once around the table and just let me know, do you have questions, follow-up questions for either HYA or MSBA before we move into our deliberation and decision process? I do not. Okay, I took notes. I'm going to leave the table for the moment so the board can continue discussing, but I wanted to thank you for the opportunity. We'd be honored to help you. However, you make the decision that's best for this district and we'll support you no matter what you choose. So thanks for the chance to visit with you. I'll wait back here just for a moment and you can tell me what you need or don't need from me after that, okay? Thank you, everybody. I appreciate it. Thank you, Barb. I cannot get out of this mode.

166I do not think I have follow-up questions, actually. I might have one for HYA, but. If she's here, great. Oh, thanks for having me after too. I appreciate it. So are we. Do you want to go ahead and ask your question for HYA and then I can review my notes quickly? Dr. Taylor, one of our board members does have a follow-up question for you if you don't mind coming to the table. And I did get an answer to the question you had asked me earlier about the interim. Oh, great. So, but I will address that after your question. I have one question and maybe a half a question after the one question. One and a half, okay. If there's such a thing. My first question is with respect to all the unique statutes and requirements

167that Minnesota has with respect to open meeting laws and superintendent requirements. Because you are a national search firm, how do you go about ensuring you have the expertise in those requirements such that you can help guide us through the requirements? Because I don't know that we all know what those are. Sure, very good question. I appreciate it. Well, as I mentioned, I recently completed my superintendent certification and one of the requirements is becoming familiar with the Minnesota laws and statutes. As a former superintendent, I had the responsibility to familiarize myself with policy and statutes in various locations. So I'm familiar with that process, but prior to coming this evening, I did take a few moments to review some of the information that I had been working through as a candidate for the certification licensure. And

168I've observed that most of the requirements that Minnesota has are similar to those of other states. One of the key differences is that you are required to conduct your final interview in public, whereas you can work with the candidates in executive session or non-public session when you are doing initial interviews. So that is one thing. But I am well acquainted with the requirements for the interview process and laws in general in Minnesota. As far as the rest of the firm, of course, we have many other individuals who can assist us with any issues or questions that might arise. So I don't anticipate that would be a problem. And then my half question is, could you expand slightly upon your recruiting method if you are pro-action or if you are more objective in recruiting or if

169you are more objective in allowing anyone to apply? Well, I do think it's a combination of both. Anyone can apply. And simply because a person wasn't recruited doesn't mean that they would not be considered as an applicant. We would be looking to ensure that they met your qualifications, your leadership profile, and were high quality, meaning that they had the necessary education and experience that you had outlined as requirements for the position. And so the recruitment that we would conduct would actually be dual. One portion would be passive, reviewing applications as they arose. We actually have all of the superintendents' open positions posted on our website at HYA. So we do have many, many thousands of people who review them. However, if we are familiar with unique characteristics through your profile and find that there might

170be a person either in the area or in the Midwest who would be a perfect match through our associate networks, we might reach out to them and see if they're interested. So that's the recruiting portion. Interestingly enough, shortly before coming to the meeting, I was in conversation with a few associates and we had a few people in mind who we might reach out to in Minnesota and the surrounding area if, again, we were selected. So we're continuously looking for a combination of open application process and the passive side and active recruiting because, of course, it's very important that you get the very best person for your superintendent. Thank you. Thank you. And you said that you'd gotten an answer to the interim. Yes, yes, thank you. Yes, so if, I don't anticipate this will be

171the case, but in the event that the board chooses to hire an interim could not locate a suitable candidate, we would not have an additional fee for supporting your movement toward the interim. What we have is a very large network of associates and people who serve in interim roles. We would work to locate some individuals who you could then interview. It's not as detailed a process as what you would do if it's just a temporary person. Normally, it might be a retired superintendent or something along those lines. So, yeah. Great, and then if we chose to restart, would that be something that you would also be coming in and completing the search for us? Yes, we would be able to do that for you as well. There might be a few additional costs, but it

172would depend on exactly what form that search would take. But we'd be committed to you for the long haul, like I said before. Great, thank you. Of course. Appreciate it. Sure. Can I ask a question? Yes, Vice Chair Roeber. I did forget to ask this. So I'm wondering, so with your national experience, and this may be something that the school board decides as the director's out mentioned that I'm new to this as well. And so just, when you are recruiting candidates, do perks matter for, how can I say this, for national candidates, right? Do they often require more perks to come and manage a district in Minnesota? Like do they, do you see that there's more, you know, like ask around the benefits of them coming to a Minnesota district versus a homegrown superintendent? Yeah,

173I think much depends upon the circumstances of the individual. But one thing I would mention is that it's important early on in the process and at the point in time when you finalize your profile that you come up with a salary range would be my recommendation so that you can advertise that. That way it won't be a surprise for a person if they are seeking something that's quite a bit more than you're able to or willing to offer, then they won't pursue your opening. And that's better for both parties, I think. You also have available to you the use through both the State Department of Education and something that we could assist you with if you just required it, a review of competing salaries, if you will, the salaries of superintendents from your area. You

174might select all of metro, twin cities, all of Minneapolis and St. Paul suburban areas to compare your future superintendent salary against. The salary is also dependent upon the experience of the individual. So you wouldn't want to say it's simply this amount, but it might be a range would be dependent upon experience. Regarding negotiating other kinds of additional contractual benefits, that would be, again, there are probably some areas that are typical, similar to the contract that you currently have with your superintendent. And I think that would be a discussion that the board would need to have up front before perhaps we got too far down into the recruitment phase. So for example, if you were not willing to exceed a certain dollar amount or you were only willing to look at this much paid leave, for

175example, those kinds of things, that's what people typically look for. Thank you. Sure, of course. Thank you. And I did myself just have one question that I'd like to address to both. So Ms. Dorn, if you wouldn't mind coming back to the board table for this. Do you want me to leave the table or? No, I want to hear from both of you. Okay. You can take turns, decide who goes first. But one of the things that I think you both addressed in your proposals and what stood out to me about both of you from the other search firms that we heard from was your commitment to and calling out of equity. I also recognize that that is low-hanging fruit when you're looking at a Hopkins website or have heard anything about our district. So

176I would imagine that any person submitting a proposal to Hopkins would make that front and center. So what I'm asking is what about your firm specifically shows us your commitment to equity? Thank you for asking that. MSBA strategic plan was refreshed a year and a half, two years ago. And one of the challenges we faced as an association was every single district in the state of Minnesota voluntarily pays dues to be a part of MSBA. So 331 districts are members of our association. And every single district has a different school board with different thought processes on diversity, equity, and inclusion. So we committed to a diversity equity and inclusion strategic plan and faced a lot of pushback from about 75% of our members and remained committed to it and discussed language and options. And so

177we now talk about belonging because we don't wanna lose our members simply due to the fact that they feel differently about that topic. We also looked internally and are trying to revamp our own hiring processes because we recognize we are a largely white organization as well. And trying to get to the bottom of that, we only have 25 employees, so it's not as though we have resources to attract and retain people other than who currently works at MSBA. So I would say that our organization is on a journey. Having said that, prior to working at MSBA, I was the executive director of the YWCA in Mankato. And I led that organization for six years. And in a community that is 98% white, as the director of the YWCA, we launched racial justice programming, hired a

178director of racial justice. Our mission is to eliminate race was, I'm sorry, I don't work there anymore. Our mission was to eliminate racism and empower women. And so that is what I personally focused on and had my own racial equity journey through those six years that truly transformed how I look at the world. So I think as an organization, we're doing a better job of it. And I think our recruiting process in the fact that we don't seek people out to diversify the pool, but rather make sure that people are aware of it. And I have to give credit to Bernadette Johnson for this and speaking with Bernadette about why she joined MSBA as a recruiter and a vetter last year. And Dr. McGuire said the same thing this year, in fact, because they have

179had requests from other search firms to consider partnering with them. And we pay squat for their work. We do not pay very much because we are a nonprofit association. What they both shared with me and Bernadette specifically said, I like the way you do searches because everyone has a shot at this job and there isn't a corral of people that you pursue for each job in trying to get them involved in the process. She said, you look specifically at the opportunities in the district, you look at the leadership profile, and you give us the room to talk to people that we feel should consider the opportunity, but you're not asking me to heavily recruit them. She felt that was a more equitable method of recruiting and it did entice her. So I think we're on

180our own journey and I think we do a good job, but I'm trying to work as closely as I can with people that have been in the shoes to help guide me in the conversation around recruiting and specifically diversity, equity, inclusion initiatives. It's a political football and we have to be very careful in all of our work. And I've worked with plenty of very split boards, a lot of three, three boards right now and helping them find candidates that they can all agree on. And whether or not equity gets in the leadership profile is often a very robust conversation with that board, but it's their call, it's not mine, because it's their search, not mine. That was a long answer. I'm sorry if I didn't quite get to the heart of it, but when you're

181in the middle of a journey, you really can't say this is exactly how we do it and what we do it. And I think 287 would also be a great resource for you. I know they do everything through an equity lens and some tools that they use to review applications might be a really nice tool for you to weave into your superintendent search also. Yes, we are planning on bringing them in to do a training. Great. Yes, as I mentioned earlier, I know I had a lot of data to share with you this evening, but we are a equity-focused firm and both in the way in which we employ our associates, our consultants, as I may have mentioned to you, are over 30% minority individuals, almost 50% of our associates are women. So we have

182that felt experience, lived experience, if you will, to bring to your specific situation. HYA has, as we've discussed, almost 40 years of experience in conducting searches along with providing other educational consultation to school districts around the country. And we have gauged over the years the changes and variations in our school district's needs. We've maintained, though, our focus is on finding a leader who is going to support you in being able to provide the best education for every child in your district. We believe that the superintendent has many roles and responsibilities, as you pointed out before, Director Roper. But the primary one is ensuring success for all in the school system. And when we assist any district in searching for their new leader, we are very much focused on that responsibility because we know that that's

183what will drive your school system, your community, your families to a successful outcome over time. Personally, myself, I've already mentioned my role. I've worked in senior leadership positions in a variety of settings everywhere, from regional districts to suburban and districts and rural districts. And one of the things that I would say, aside from the political language that was mentioned before that surrounds the topic of inclusivity and diversity, every one of the board members who I've worked with as a person in the role of superintendent has had a true commitment and understanding to the importance of ensuring that every child has an excellent school experience and is prepared for either their work beyond or post-secondary education beyond high school. And that takes a variety of forms, depending on the district and the needs. It may be

184in focusing on a variety of instructional interventions that will ensure improved outcomes for students. It may be looking at how behavioral and just behavior and discipline is carried out to again ensure that all students are appropriately addressed. So it's at my core. Actually, even my dissertation was about ensuring all students can be successful in school. So something I believe in, in my heart. Thank you. I appreciate that. Any other clarifying questions before we let? Yes. Chair Andreessen. For MSBA, quick question about the recruitment model. It sounds mostly passive, but are there proactive steps you take to go out and maybe find candidates or make them aware of the opportunity to the extent that they, maybe they're not looking, right? So like for my job, I get emails and calls all the time. Say, you're probably

185not looking, but I have this great opportunity. How much of that do you do as part of the recruiting process? Yeah, thanks for asking that. We talk about it at our service provider calls every two weeks. And one of the things that we do is we talk about who would align well with this and who knows them. Just today, I had a call with my Metro service provider and we came up with another 12 to 15 names, because when you've been in the business as long as Dr. McGuire and Dr. Johnson and Dr. Ward and Connie, you know a lot of people and you hear about a lot of people who are rising stars. So those folks, we decide who will reach out to whom and in what manner, because we wanna be very careful

186and very respectful that they should know about this opportunity and take a look at it without us putting pressure on them. But I think it comes down to the term as a tap on the shoulder. There are some people who need that encouragement before they'll look at it or consider it, because they may think, oh, I'd never qualify for that. So those are the folks that we talk about in our meetings. And then individually, we don't want one person getting five phone calls. We'll choose who is calling who and when and what are you hearing. And maybe it's not the right opportunity now, but we have them on our radar for future context as well. The other term we use is shake some trees. And as positions are posted and I reach out to all

187of my statewide folks, I'll say, hey, we need to shake some trees for XYZ school district who might align with what the board is looking for. So we brainstorm that as well. Nationally, I should also say that one of the things that Josh Polly does is he will take a look at the profile that you are looking for in leadership and put all of the statistics for Hopkins public schools. He's really good at technology and really understands how to look for stuff. So he'll put that information into his search database and he'll pull up maybe the top 25 schools that are similar to Hopkins across the country. And then he will reach out to the administrators in those districts to see if they are aware of the opportunity here in Hopkins and let them know

188that they should look at it. And that's in addition to when he's at conferences and handing out business cards. So that's a targeted model that we try to find districts with similar, whether it's similar strategic plans or academic or social and emotional aspirations, find those schools, reach out to them. What we won't do is contact a sitting superintendent in Minnesota and say, hey, you should apply for Hopkins because we as an organization have an ethical problem stealing leaders from our members. We just, we won't do that. I'll guarantee you though that those people know about this opportunity. And the awareness is really what we try to build more than a personal invitation. Thank you. Okay, thanks for asking. That was very helpful. Appreciate both of your time. And we will be in touch after. Thank

189you. Thank you so very much for your time. And I wish you all the best. Likewise, thanks for the great questions. This is a very thoughtful process and I know it takes a lot of time, but really truly, those are wonderful questions. So thank you. Have a good night. Thanks. Thank you. Excellent. Stay warm everyone. Yes. Are you duty? So then, okay. I was just wondering how do we notify them afterwards? I'll send you my number. So this takes us to our next agenda item, which is the final decision. We will have some time to discuss and then we will look for a motion and put it to a vote. I have been in contact with Treasurer Heartland. So just knowing that she brings a perspective from hearing from half of the proposals. So yeah,

190just opening it up at this point. I don't know, is there an appetite for having discussion before we call a motion or do we wanna have the discussion after the motion? I'm open to either one. Let's have a discussion. Let's have a discussion and then make a motion on who we're gonna choose, I think. Yeah. So yeah, I would invite board members to... Let us know your thoughts. Chair Andresen. Yes, Director Hyman. This aligns with what Clerk WG mentioned when speaking with MSBA. I have a lot of concerns about the recommendation. Let me start by saying, I really like MSBA and I'm leaning towards MSBA with that being said. I have concerns that they would be willing to develop a profile, a leadership profile before getting stakeholder feedback. And so while I understand we are

191in a time crunch, I would want to be assured that the leadership profile will incorporate community and stakeholder feedback, even if it's a little bit at the beginning and then we do more and continue to refine, as I think she mentioned, what we would obviously be able to do. But I would be very concerned about developing a leadership profile without having any community input. That was concerning to me just a little bit. Yeah, and I do think I also agree. I think that all of us were envisioning a lot of community input at every phase. And I think MSBA made clear, I think both actually made clear that this process is ours and their job is to make it work for us. And so if that is a big ask that we're going into this

192with, and it sounds like this is a commitment of this board to have community input and in particular, personally, my bias would be getting student input at this level of the process. I would prioritize that over other and staff. And I think that MSBA would be open to that. That would just be my impression. And as the board, we can say this is non-negotiable. This is how we want our leadership profile to be, but yeah, I think that was the impression I got. Yeah, I think it's a big ask, right, given the timeline. So I just want, we're not gonna be able to do all the surveys and review all the data and review all submissions from community members in advance of developing the leadership profile, given our timeline, it's just not possible. And so

193I think so long as we make it very clear that that leadership profile is not, that that leadership profile is malleable, depending on the feedback and community input we get is a very important piece of whatever, whoever we decide that we communicate that to them. Yeah, and I did like to, that they have an example of what that could look like. It was provided for us that we have the leadership profile, but the ways in which the public input is part of the hiring criteria, I thought was really, and how it aligns to that board input I thought was really interesting and goes to exactly what both of you have been speaking to is that, yes, it is part of that profile and that things change as we go through the process. I did like

194that, that there's an example put before us of how that could look and work. I have a question for clarification purposes, if anyone else caught this, it sounded like the leadership profile you select out of like 24, I think she said items or did anyone else catch that? If you caught it, can you clarify what I heard? I suppose I could have asked a follow up question about this because I heard two things. One, which is I think we have, or I made an assumption, I guess, that we have spaciousness to ensure that the language of a leadership profile is in alignment broadly with how we would describe our district or some of even that last slide around the distinctives of Hopkins or things. And yet then there are 24 different, what are we looking

195for categories for superintendent qualities? And it seems that we get to identify of that as more of a selection thing so people can self identify in a way that is consistent across applications or things. Here's our seven areas of most prioritized focus. So I was presuming it was probably gonna have a little bit of here's our own narrative, here's then within that the, I think about job postings where it's, here's the description in paragraph form. Now here's the require key characteristics. Doop, doop, doop, doop, doop. But we could ask that for follow up clarification because I am not a trustworthy source of truth on that, just interpretation. Well, and I think too, it is a framework and probably a process that they go through with all boards to get to their leadership profile. And again,

196I think, and this is true of both firms, I think that a lot of that is up to how we want it to look. If we want more than that, if we want less than that, I think it is something that we get to craft. They just have a tried and true method to get boards to a finished leadership profile, which is important because it does drive a lot of the work and we get to make it our own. Chair Andreson? Yes. Yes, on a different thing, I don't know if anybody else caught, but I heard that there was two different guidance on how we can do our interviews. One of them said, you may be able to do a select committee and one said, you may be able to do an executive session. And

197so I don't know which is which and which is true. And so that is concern, not innovative of itself, it's fine. Nick knows. Nick knows, right. So we get some guidance on who's actually right. You know, maybe it's a mountain out of a mill hill, but maybe it does demonstrate that one knows their law a little bit better. And I don't want to step in something innocuous like that and have open meeting violations or whatever violations for something that's very innocent because our guidance was wrong. So I don't know, can we get clarity on what actually is? Do we have clarity, Nick, do you know? At what stage of the process? Yeah, so one of the firms said you can have a subcommittee and have a closed meeting, right? So not the whole board. Like

198three. Three, right. I think that's how I interpret it. And then one said you could do an executive session even for the initial interview because I guess my read on it is it's private information. Right, so like the whole board and closed. I feel like that doesn't sound correct, but I don't know. Yeah, it is. It's actually policy 205. I knew you would know. 205 is the policy that you have regarding open meeting law and it depends on how you define what constitutes a committee and it's still up to the board on if you want to keep that aspect of it open. So by Minnesota law, what you heard very clearly is that the design is transparency all the way through. Some spaces look, and we do have the language in 205 that would say

199if you don't have a quorum, but if you have a quorum, then that thereof means it's kind of more of the full meeting of the board. If you have a full meeting of the board as you've communicated with the community, then that means you'd be looking more at a more transparent process. There are some ways that you can have a select smaller group that would look at being part of that committee to narrow. If you were looking at it as that, as part of your structure and the way that you design it, you could have meetings that were not in view of the public. Some search firms do it differently. Some will say that based on these things, we're going to recommend semi-finalists up front. There are just different ways that you can structure it,

200but we do have languages was identified in 205 that can create some opportunities, but it's really about the way the board crafts it. Does that help? Yes, but so we could not do an executive session for the initial interview, is that correct? It would be very difficult with the language that you have right now. Yes, that gives me a lot of reservation that somebody suggested that. My two cents. H-Y-A, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, and I think the suggestion was that it's possible yet not done. So at least that's what I heard, that it is an option, but very rarely done. And I would just addendum that to say that was from MSBA. What I heard is that we could have a committee potentially dependent upon, but that was not from H-Y-A. They did not name

201that as you could do, but wouldn't recommend. They named, my memory is that H-Y-A talked about a subcommittee, MSBA said you could do some of the interview, like final meetings have to be, final interviews, interviews of finalists have to be in an open meeting, but that you could do initial interviews in a closed session, but that is rarely done. That's what I heard. We might have to play back the recording to know. I believe H-Y-A said executive session, but I wrote it down because I was like, no, I don't think so. Okay, I heard it totally differently. I heard executive too, but. Okay, you heard it from H-Y-A. From executive, I heard H-Y-A. Interesting, okay, I heard it totally differently. Anyone else have any memory? I would need to play it back to hear the.

202Yeah, it was your question, so you probably remember it more. Well, I mean, I think you've beaten open meeting laws into me, because I was like, I don't think that's true. Yeah, yeah, I mean. And also it would go directly against what we're naming. We value openness and transparency and communication with the public. So I don't think even if that was passable, we wouldn't do it. That's true. We would not do it. Mm-hmm. Just back away. I mean. Yeah, thank you, Zee, for bringing that up, because I wouldn't have. I had it totally wrong in my head. Any other thoughts? Chair Andreessen, so within the two search firms, I think they both did an incredible job presenting. They both were very convincing. I'll be completely honest. I like the aspects of both of them. One

203of the bigger concerns that I just had about MSBA was just, I think they do definitely have a great focus on Minnesota policies and understanding all the legal ramifications of school boards within our state. I am just concerned about the lack of diversity within our internal team, though, just to be completely honest, just because I would like to have a diverse experience and advisory from their team to advise on the practices when searching for a candidate. And so I know that they mentioned that it is improving. HYA, to me, had a more structured process around their internal team dynamics, and it's displayed within even their leadership that they showed, shared with us who's on their team. And so that's really important to me because that is something that I'm personally impacted by, just as a

204leader, is that I would love to have folks who are recruiting me to have some lived experience that I have had when I am to apply for a very intentional position, like a superintendent. I do like MSBAs, their association, however, with school boards and their knowledge of school boards more because they do do the conferences, they do have trainings around school board practices and standards, and so that feels more comforting to me. So I'm still making a decision in my head which firm I think I would go with, but just those two distinctions really stood out to me as they both were discussing their processes. And I also do like the national reach that HYA have, just because I do think it's very important that we do look at the scalability of different districts across

205our nation and bringing that expertise to Minnesota because we have been in a deficit with our educational data for a very long time. So I would love for some fresh new perspective, outside perspective, to come and lead our great district. So that is something that I also was looking at in terms of which firm would have that pathway, would have that best pathway. Thank you, Vice Chair Roper. I agree, I share your concern. And also did appreciate MSBA's response to my question, but I agree with you. I don't think that there is a true substitute for having leaders reflect the people we are trying to attract to our district. And I would just remind the board that it is part of our values as a district that our goal is to have our staff reflect

206our student demographics. And that should always be at top of mind when we're considering decisions like this. So thank you for speaking to that. It is highly important and it's very important to our students, and in particular if we want the outcomes that we say we want for our families. Any other thoughts? Director Zhao, did you wanna jump in? Did you wanna jump in at all? No. Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah, Chair Andreessen. Yes, Clerk WG. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate this. And I think a couple things. One is I do believe wherever we end up, both of the firms that we invited in, I feel good about that and appreciated what both of them brought to the table. And I don't have any red flags in either direction. It's the fist of five.

207I have no fists that I'm feeling in either direction. I think I actually was expecting coming into tonight that I was going to say HYA was my top pick. That's what I thought coming into tonight. And my mind changed sitting here tonight. So again, I would go with either and will support that. I think for me, MSBA ended up stronger for a couple reasons. One is I actually felt like the nationwide, that was a big question for me because I didn't wanna become just, like I'm a annoyingly proud Minnesotan right now. And yet I also recognize that I think it's really important, especially given the values of our district, that we are ensuring that we are inviting forward candidates from around the country. And maybe some persons who can help us think, they might not

208be from Minnesota and can help us think differently about what are some of our norms. Not to say that Minnesotans can't also do that, but I thought I appreciated how that was addressed, the nationwide questions. I also think pointing back to the presentation, just the intentionality too with having it posted at so many different recruitment sites. I think that was actually a concern of mine with HYA is like, well, you have 40,000 subscribers, which is huge, right? And who are on the subscriber list versus what are all the diverse networks that, and that sounds like that's actually an intentional thing that you're ensuring it's posted in all of those different places. And I think I both wanna really honor a director, or vice chair, excuse me, vice chair Roper. It's okay, it's new, it's new.

209It is new. And I really wanna honor that. And I think one of the things that struck me as we were hearing from MSBA was I also have, as a person who's worked in higher education and nonprofit leadership, have heard from quite a few friends, my friends of color, who in searches what she named about the tokenism, or the sense like, oh, great that you're tapping me, but you're just tapping me because you don't even know anything about me. You don't care about what I'm bringing to this. And I think when hearing that particularly diverse leaders of color, I'm assuming leaders of diverse sexualities and genders, are saying, I was humanized. I was treated as a full person who's coming to this as a leader, and hearing that there's a level of respect. And that

210was meaningful to me to hear that, and particularly hearing with Dr. Johnson, with her expertise and that she would say, hey, folks are trying to get me to work for them to do recruitment, and I'm saying yes to you all. I did appreciate that. And I think centering in an ongoing way all of our values, and I think it just remains vital in this work. So I absolutely go either way. I'm leaning in the one direction. That's why. Thank you, appreciate that. Chair Andresen. Yes. Vice Chair Roper, I just wanted to, I just Googled, wasn't familiar with all the individuals listed on the superintendent search leadership team. And I just wanted to point out two things, that Josh Pauley is national, right? So he, she said, attends national conferences, and will tap national contacts. So

211I think having at least one dedicate. Clarifying though, he is local. He's from Minnesota. Right, he's local, but his specific role, at least I understood his specific role, was to focus solely on national candidates, and reaching nationally. So I do like that there is someone still dedicated, and specifically dedicated to that. So I don't think going with MSBA necessarily forecloses finding a unique candidate that could be from another part of the country. And then Dr. Bernardia Johnson. I believe she is the former superintendent of Minneapolis Public Schools. And is she African American as well? So to have someone on the search leadership team, although I agree that the MSBA's institution perhaps may not be reflective of our community in full, that at least Dr. Johnson would be on our search committee as a service provider.

212Just wanted to bring that to your attention to the extent you didn't already know. Thank you so much, Director Hyman. I really appreciate that insight. I was speaking more to that the internal team of, and this is not the total deciding factor, but it does as a leader of color who unfortunately have to consider this majority of their team is, and she said it, is majority white. So that does kind of, I kind of do want to understand how they do make equity decisions based on that factor. And so I do love that we do have a limited amount of diversity within the search firm, but I do value having more, to be completely honest. And then just also with HYA, just their national reach I think is, they have a more extensive national reach

213than MSBA does. And so that's kind of just where to, I didn't want to, I'm not, you know, I'm not neglecting Josh Pauley's experience, I'm just looking at HYA's extensive experience as an organization with national searches. And so I do think both organizations bring a great deal of experience, I'm just looking at the experience as an organization totally versus individually. So that's kind of where my statements were aimed at. So thank you so much. I understand, and I agree about the national presence and overall experience, that HYA does have many more years experience doing superintendents or just nationally than MSBA. Thank you. Yeah, and I think Vice Chair Roper, at least speaking for myself, I'm very much, as I said before, in agreement with your perspective on that, and I think it is a Hopkins

214value. So thank you for bringing that up. And I know that that's the lens through which I looked at these proposals and at the presentation tonight, because it is important that Hopkins continue to maintain a high level of representation in our leadership in the district. Any other input? Chair Andreessen. Yes, Director Schell. Oh, sorry, thank you. One other item, and maybe for the people watching, for our decision, the total cost was comparable, right? There were both 20-ish K, is that about right? 20-4 and 25. I mean, I don't know how people interpreted an additional amount of money for stakeholder surveys. For HYA, that to me was very, I don't know. Insulting is a strong word, but it was very, I was taken aback that it would not be included. That seems like a very critical

215piece to making our decision. And so does that change the cost calculus for HYA at all? Or is it still about the same? Are there other things that we might have to pay for? I agree, that was gonna be my point. If someone else didn't bring it up was that I feel like if we're looking at just dollars, which is not always, which should never be the sole deciding factor, HYA does come in because of all a cart items at higher than MSBA, not by a lot. And certainly, we can talk about whether other factors make it more important, bring a value add beyond dollars. But I also heard that while they would help us find an interim, there wasn't that clear commitment that we got from MSBA that, well, we will restart the search

216process for you free of charge. This is our commitment to you. I got the impression that that would come with some additional cost from HYA if we did find ourself in that situation. And I'm not saying we are, so perhaps don't make a decision based on that. But yeah, I think the money, I think we might find, if we wanted something that would be standard with MSBA, we might have to pay additional for that. So that I think is a factor for consideration. And also, I think you brought up the point too that there isn't that depth of knowledge of statutes and limitations on the search process that we get, specifically to Minnesota that we get with MSBA as well. So those are the things I'm noodling. Chair Andreson, I just had one more observation

217that I wanted to say. I do, going back and looking at HYA's presentation, I do really like that they put together a search timeline right at the get-go. I think timelines are really important. I don't think that was emphasized as much by MSBA while I'm sure they would agree to put a timeline in place. I do think that it's important to be realistic about what the timeline is and when things need to happen. I kind of think of it as a home remodel, right? You wanna have plans in place and stages and completion deadlines of certain items in a timely manner. And so I do like that HYA made clear that the first thing that they have on here is planning meeting with board and putting together that search timeline. It says HYA will develop

218a specific timeline with the school board. Yes, and I do just wanna have it be noted that both firms in their original proposals gave us timelines. So MSBA did provide that information as well. It just wasn't part of tonight's presentation. Okay, good to know. And Chair Andreson. Yes. Just to both second, well, not formally second, just to affirm what you said with MSBA was on page 19. And to connect Director Hyman with what you named, I do think even as we say, like say if we did go with MSBA, I think being clear, here's our plan for timeline and then here's as we communicate and here's the moments where the exact details of that will continue to shift as we remain in a co-creating process with our community. But I think having a clear overall,

219I'm absolutely with you. I think clarity of communication and communication and communication will be a deeply valued thing by our community and I want this and I think we all do this process to be one that just brings us even more deeply together as we lean into the future as a district, so. Chair Andreson. Yes, Chair Roker. One thing that I do like about, again, this is hard for me, just a little bit difficult for me because this is my first time going through this so I do have all the questions. So my apologies because I do agree with, you know, what all of my colleagues are saying just about the differences, especially Director Zalla about that cost since we are like, we have like no fat to trim, you know, from, yeah, like I'm

220asking for teriyaki seaweed and he's like, we don't have the budget for it. So like, you know, about every dollar that we spend has to be very intentional and so I was thinking about that as well when we were talking. I also want to just point beyond the superintendent though. I do like HYA's experience with their search for cabinet members because it does, I think, you know, like the superintendent, yes, it's like the visionary of the district but the cabinet is kind of like the heartbeat of the district and so good cabinet members also does make up how our superintendent is successful and so their insight to like cabinets and administrative work is a plus to me because I think it's super important that we consider who's serving with the superintendent and not just solely

221focusing on the superintendent alone. Like we need like transportation. We like, we need all those folks to be top-notch in, you know, including our superintendent and so that was a little bit of a distinction that I liked about HYA versus, you know, MSBA just saying we focus only on, you know, superintendent search, which is totally fine though I like just a little bit of diversity and experience with that. So that's something I would like to mention. Yeah, thank you, Vice Chair Roper for bringing that up too because it reminded me of one of the things I really liked about HYA is their transition supports for a year, which I feel like was not as addressed with MSBA beyond the, you know, your members of MSBA so we'll always be there and helping you. So yeah,

222I had forgotten about that. So thanks for talking about that more deeper into the district focus of HYA. Are we feeling like we've? One more comment about HYA if possible. Thank you. I do think it's not so much a comment about HYA more a question I wanna pose to my fellow board members. MSBA has a conflict of interest and an ethical obligation that they cannot recruit, like actively recruit current sitting superintendents in districts in Minnesota. HYA does not have that conflict or that ethical obligation. And so that's just something to consider how we feel about that, that, you know, MSBA is a nonprofit it serves all of its members. Every single school district in the state of Minnesota is a member of MSBA. So while they have this immense. Not all. Not all? Not all.

223A lot. A lot, most. 330, did she say? Yeah, but not everyone. That's not everyone. Okay, thank you for the clarification. Is that a concern to anyone? Just something to discuss or? Consideration, yeah. Or think about? If I could just share that the metro area superintendents definitely know that Hopkins is looking for a new soup. And I'm very confident that the vast majority of all sitting superintendents know about this opportunity. So, I don't know. And even non-sitting superintendents know about this opportunity. Yes, yeah. Yeah. But I just wanted to share that. I do understand Director Hyman, the conflict of interest concern though. Yeah. Right, because I would be devastated if someone tried to steal our superintendent, right, while she's sitting. However, I do know that it does happen. Recruitment is, it does happen. And so,

224that is something to think about as well. Especially if candidates decline to take a job. Like, where do we search if we went through all of the candidates? Like, do we start that whole search over? Like, I know they say they hire interns, but where do they begin to pull from once a candidate declines? So, I understand where you're coming from with that one. Yeah, and what if there's someone that's a superintendent in another district that they believe is excellent and while they may know about the role, may need a, what did they say, a tap on the shoulder? Or encouragement to apply? I think MSBA's approach has to be a little bit different than HYA's approach in doing that. That was my understanding. I do wanna remind everybody about the time. It is almost

225nine o'clock and we still haven't had a motion. So, just wondering, do we need to take a break so people can think a little bit more? Or are we feeling like we've reached a place where someone would make a motion about a particular search firm? Should I make a motion? I'd ask for a five minute break just to use the restroom. I know it's late, but. Okay, five minutes, we will be back here. And then at that point, I would look for a motion. Great. Thank you. Back everybody, we just had a quick break and for board members to gather themselves, think more about this decision. And I would like to, I would look for a motion that the board appoints MSBA, Executive Search Firm, as our search firm. Do I have a motion? Oh,

226perfect. I'll make a motion that we appoint MSBA as our search firm. So moved. Is there a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? I would just like to say that I'm very grateful for both firms. Their proposals were excellent. I feel like we would have been in good hands either way, just that MSBA nudged out just a little bit more. So with that, I would, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? The chair votes aye, and MSBA is our superintendent search firm. Thank you all very much for the process, for all your thoughtful questions and your great input. I am really excited to get to work. And I would look for a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Is there, I have a motion to adjourn.

227Is there a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The chair votes aye, and this special meeting of the Hopkins School Board is adjourned at 9.02 PM. Thank you all. Thank you.