Special Meeting April 21, 2026

001I don't think we have to say the exception. You need some water? >> I have water. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. >> You are. >> Oh, you guys waiting on me. Well, thanks everyone for uh having me out. Um it's been so long since I've been here. Um I had to have this wonderful person show me where I was going. So at any rate, just by way of introduction, I think some of you or maybe most of you know who I am. I'm Deborah Sil with the Montana School Board Association. I've been the associate executive director and general counsel there now for it'll be 26 years in June. Um, you can probably tell by some of my gray hair and my wrinkles that I've been around the block a few times. But at any rate, um,

002I think one of the things that we do at MTSA that is really helpful for our members are these types of indist workshops where we can talk about what it means to be a trustee on a school board. Um, we can talk about the limitations on authority of individual trustees. My preference is, if you'll give me just a little bit of grace, I'd like to go through a few of the legal requirements for trustees and what it means to be on a board. And then I would like to make sure that we're engaging in dialogue at this meeting. Um, so that you get your questions answered. And my hopes would be that by the time we finish up with the meeting, if there are areas where maybe there's some disagreement or discontent, that we talk

003through those things and try to build consensus on moving forward. I think one of the things that takes boards in Montana off task is when there is a disconnect or there is a strange dynamic that's going on and it in it appears in a variety of ways um either between trustees or there's something going on on the board where it's taking the board away from their focus which really is under our constitution ution um to ensure that every child and student in this community gets the best education possible. And whenever you guys get thrown off task, you need to quickly resolve issues and get back on track with what your core purpose and your core values are. So, with that, I think just as a reminder for me, um if we could just go around

004the room and you guys just remind me um how long you've been on the board or what your position is, that would be helpful for me as we go through our training tonight. And if you have any questions, just feel free. I don't need to lecture you for an hour or so, and I'll try not to do that. Again, I want to make sure that we leave room for dialogue and deliberation. So, not deliberation, but dialogue. >> Oh, jeez. Now I have to listen to myself. >> I'm Deian Nielson. I'm the district clerk and business manager. I've been in this position for a year and a half, but with the district 19. >> Awesome. Jackie Lang, two years on the board. >> Great. Chris, superintendent. I've been with the district 22 years. Superintendent four years.

005Yeah. You can sit up. >> I'm very uncomfortable, so I have to get that move around. So, I don't want to be >> Sounds good. >> Kelly, I've been in that spot for three years. I've been in the district 13. Great. >> Uh Stacy Leon, I've been a trustee for two years now. And uh I've got two students in Lockwood and one in second. One in fourth grade. >> Great. >> Josh Skidmore uh fourth year. >> Yeah. >> Awesome. >> Cory Shaw, third year. >> Shane McKe, second year. >> Okay. >> Christy Hartley, first year. >> Okay. >> Lacy Rollins, fourth Awesome. So, you guys really have a good mix of uh you're I I would characterize you guys as a fairly new board, right? I mean, compared to we have trustees in the state

006that have been on boards for 20some odd years. Um but I think too one of the things that I like to see and I was visiting with Josh before we came in here. Um I know you guys have two open seats on the board for people running. you should actually be encouraged by that just in terms of people wanting to get involved and positively involved in what you're trying to do in this public school. And I know that you guys have done some amazing things, both your predecessors and and all of you sitting at this table. Um, so I would just um bear with me here for a minute um because I want to go through some of the um I would say the purpose of school board governance. You guys probably already know that

007under article 10 section 8 of the Montana Constitution that you have supervision and control over everything that happens in this district. Now, you delegate an awful lot of those functions to your administrative staff and other staff, but the board is ultimately responsible for everything that occurs in this school district. Um, people don't really realize this, and I I've been lobbying for Montana legislature um as long as I've been at MTSBA, but the significance of having that provision in our constitution is really important. There's only a handful of states in the US where that constitutional grant of authority to trustees, locally elected trustees, supervision and control stems from state constitutions. Many times it's embedded in state code, which in essence means that every time the legislature comes to town, they have the ability to modify that.

008It's not so easy when it's in our constitution. And again, that's pretty important in terms of the board's role in this public school school system. So remember supervision and control under article 10 section 8. The other thing that you want to always remember if you're sitting here, I've had a lot of trustees that sometimes are discouraged by what's occurring at the board level. And let me give you an example. Um, I have sat on other boards as well as volunteer and if you don't find your time meaningful, then you're probably going to find something else to do and no one can blame you, right? So, if any of you are sitting here thinking, gee, what a thankless job, you know, to be on a school board. I don't think that. I think that you guys

009do some great work. We have 1,400 plus trustees in the state, the largest population of elected officials in this state. You want to be looking at if you if you don't understand the board's overarching responsibilities, just take a look at article 10, section one of the Montana Constitution. And I'm going to paraphrase here for a minute, but what that says is that it is the goal of the people of this state to develop the full educational potential of each citizen. Okay? And that's what boards need to be focused on as well. And that's why I said a minute ago, if you find yourselves off task with certain issues, and I know that, you know, boards deal with grievances and other things, you always have to remember that you got to come back and you have

010to keep your eye on what you're supposed to be doing. And if you don't know, article 10, section one tells you all you need to know about what it means to be a ward in this state and what your focus should be. goal of the people of this state is to develop the full educational potential of each child when you're talking about a K through2 public school system when you're talking about school board governance. Okay? And let me let me go back a minute. So each of you when you are elected or appointed, you are appointed or elected to this board. And we have a provision in Montana law under title 20 that says you have to act collectively as a body. In other words, the only time trustees have the authority to be acting

011in their official capacity as a trustee is when you're sitting here like you are tonight. Anybody know the two other exceptions in the law? >> In case of an emergency, isn't there? Well, in if there's a true emergency, what it allows you to do is to hold a meeting without the appropriate notice, but it still allows the board to act. The so it you all need to recognize that you have all of the authority in the world to act when you're sitting here together and the law requires that you act collectively because as soon as you walk out of this room, you don't have the authority to act as a trustee. There's one exception and that is so regular board meetings, right? Special board meetings. If you have a committee structure and you're on a

012committee either informally or by appointment, you have the authority to act as a trustee. I know I think you guys were just involved in negotiations and that's a perfect example of when a trustee has the ability to act in their individual capacity, right, as a trustee because the board granted them that the authority. The only other exception in the law where any of you have the authority to act outside of a regular or special board meeting or committee is when this board delegates some function to you. Let's say that one of you has some expertise maybe in construction, right, or engineering and the district is interested in maybe expansion or some type of renovation project and they give you that authority to go out and explore different options. then you have the authority to act

013in your capacity as a trustee. Outside of those settings, you don't have the authority to act in your capacity as a trustee. I think one of the danger zones of being a trustee and understand um as an attorney, I am continually and constantly I probably answered five or six or seven emails before I left uh for Billings today. um constantly thinking about managing the risk of our members. So when I get a question that involves employment or maybe a a board governance issue, I'm always trying to advise a district to minimize their risk of a legal challenge. Okay. I think one of the areas of potential risk for any individual trustee is the manner in which you communicate with other people about what authority you have and what authority you don't have. Okay? Because we

014have this unfair thing in the law called apparent a p a r n t authority. Any of you ever hear of that term? What it means and it's really unfair. What it means is that let's say that I am a community member. Let's say that I'm a parent in this in this district and I have a child and I'm vis visiting with Josh about an issue that I have in the school. Okay? And I'm going to Josh because I know he sits on this board and I think he has the authority to help me with whatever issue I have. Okay. So, I asked to meet with Josh. Josh agrees. I'm telling Josh all of my complaints and Josh is doing exactly what he's doing right now. He's not even, you know, nodding his head, but

015he's listening to me, right? And I am under the perception that Josh has the authority to help me. And he's not telling me otherwise. What the law recognizes is that it protects me, not the individual trustee. If I reasonably believe that Josh or any of you in your individual capacity have the authority to assist me with whatever informal grievance or complaint I have, the law is going to protect me. It's called reasonable reliance. Okay? And that's why I always tell trustees when you get those inquiries from people, your antenna should go up. And what you should be saying to people in order to educate them, and I would say this unequivocally in this day and age, is that you don't have the authority to help them. and then you guide them through the process whether

016it be a 1700 complaint or some other process but at that point in time you step aside the other I think misstep that some trustees try to do you know as a martyr or otherwise they want to be helpful to people in terms of showing them where to file the complaint how to file it what to put in it or they think that they have the authority to either investigate it or make sure that it's proceeding through whatever process. That's not your role as a trustee. Once you educate people that you don't have the authority to help them, then you let your administrative staff handle that. Okay? So, I would just tell you to protect yourself as a trustee. Make sure and it's not in all communications, right? You can't stop communicating with people as

017a as an elected official, but you can educate people about the fact that you are one trustee that sits on a board. You don't have authority, like for example, the governor does in an individual public office that you only have the authority to act when you're acting collectively with this body. Because people don't understand that. They think because you're elected on this board that you have the authority to help them and you don't and you want to make sure they understand that you don't have the authority to help them. Okay. Um that's one area where I think that that's a risk for an individual trustee. Remember too that as long as you're acting in your official capacity as a trustee, just like we're doing right now, you're covered by the district's liability insurance policy, automatic

018by law. Okay? If you are outdoing things and giving people the perception that you have the authority to be acting as a trustee when you don't, that's a dangerous position I think for any trustee to be in because then your actions are not covered by the district's liability insurance policy. Okay. So that's why it's really important to recognize that this is where you have the authority to hear, discuss, and act on matters under the jurisdiction of this district. Okay? So just be aware of communications. It can be, I think, a tricky area for people just because you want to help out, right? You want to be helpful. Um, but all of us know when somebody's coming to you with a complaint, right? And again, the antenna should get blow up. I want to ask you

019guys this question. When you're talking about school board governance, what does that mean to this group? >> Anybody want to take a jab at that? What is school board governance? >> Setting the calendar, setting the uh budget for next year >> policy. >> I know we're working on that right now with the M getting the polic kind of ends at the superintendent. We don't have any ability to go to Gwen as our high school principal. I can't go to her and be like, "Hey, we need to do this different." In my view, my authority as a trustee even as the chair and dawn I can't go and talk to other people and do other things like that for governance wise. >> I would agree with you. So, I think you're spot on when you're talking

020about governance and that's your job as a school board to govern over this district. What it really means is putting processes in place, right? You hire a clerk business manager, you hire a superintendent, you adopt policies, you adopt budget, you have a strategic plan. hopefully that you've developed. >> You have um collective bargaining agreements that are processes as well. That's really what it means to govern over a district to put processes in place so that people know, for example, you know that you're not to give directives to, for example, the high school principal, right? In fact, I would tell you that even with Don, Don answers to this board. Don does not answer to individual trustees. Okay? Um, you hire your administrative staff to run your schools on a day-to-day basis. That is not the

021role of a trustee or of this board. Your job is to govern, put processes in place. Policies are a big one, right? So that people understand if X occurs, we have a process in place. Um but and I've seen this not a lot but in certain circumstances for example where a trustee might want um a lot of financial information and is constantly communicating with the clerk of the district to the point where the clerk can't get the job done. And I always tell people that even the clerk does not work for individual trustees. It's the board that the clerk and the superintendent work for. So if the board wants something from Don or your business manager, that authority stems from this board. Now in many times you have that set forth in policy and you

022guys probably have the policy in place that designates the authority of the board, right? Versus the delegation of authority to your administrative staff. And again, I think if there's ever a disconnect about, gee, um, you know, what is Don spending his time on, that's a discussion worth having at this board meeting. Okay? And I think again, it goes to what I said a few minutes ago that as an individual trustee, you don't really have the authority to do a whole lot. You don't have the authority to to direct staff. In fact, it's a really dangerous spot to be in. And I've dealt with it a number of times in my career where a trustee thinks that maybe they can walk into the kitchen or the lunchroom or any other classroom and start telling an employee

023about the way that things should go and that's not your role. Okay? And I think all of you likely understand that. I just want to make sure that we're on the same page in terms of the authority of this board and what you're supposed to be doing. So, always be thinking about your role. I do a lot of strategic planning around the state. In fact, the MTSBA board and staff just had a two-day strategic planning meeting with Glenn Tekker, who's a renowned strategic planner. And one of the things that I think always resonates with me when I'm doing these types of board trainings is as a board, think about always looking up and out. Okay? And I say that because if you're talking about effective governance, there are three things that you also always want

024to remember. So again, if you're sitting here thinking, gee, I know under, you know, 20-3-324, which is all of the duties, you guys probably know what they are of trustees and we're sort of mired in detail in that statute because it goes on and on and we keep adding to it. Um, I think you should be thinking about again up and out. So, if you're looking at what this board is supposed to be doing at all times, again, going back to article 10, section one, your job is to set the direction of this district. And you do that by putting processes in place, right? And you also do it through your strategic planning process. I always used to tell boards a few years ago that strategic planning was a really nice idea. It's required by

025law to have that in place and it makes a difference in terms of the way that boards operate in terms of your the pace of progress. So remember your job setting the direction of this district. Okay. How often do you guys visit or look at the strategic plan that you have in place? >> We do it at the We usually do it at the beginning of the year when we go over our goals >> and then we hit it about halfway through again. >> Okay. >> I have Can I have one question? >> Yeah. >> So Shane's on the budget or not Shane's on the budget and the negotiations committee. So in his official capacity on that committee, if he goes to Deanna and says, "How much is this going to cost?" How much is

026this going to cost? He's within his duty. He says it. I think so. I think that's a reasonable request to make if you're delegated the authority of sitting on a budget or negotiations committee. >> Yes. >> But what if I'm inundating Deian with how much does this cost? How much does this cost? How much does this cost? Where do we have to ask as a trustee at the board meeting? Do we have to ask right then? Deianne, can you give me these numbers of favors >> if there's any confusion about whether Deianne has to drop everything that she's doing, right? And a clerk is not an easy job. I'm sure you'll attest to that. um if she's not sure whether or not she is entertaining you individually because you want that information, I think you

027need to establish clear lines of authority with this board. I would agree with you that if you're on a negotiations committee or even budget, I think that Deianne and probably Don and probably your other administrators provide resources for you. But if you're somebody on this board and you either want more information than what other trustees have and it's interfering in somebody's ability to do their job, I think you need to have that discussion with this board. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, but I do think again if you go back to your individual authority, okay, the reason that people need that information for a budget or negotiations committee, I think is valid. But imagine if your staff, and I'll throw Deianne and Don in there, if their job was to answer every question of every

028one of you on a daily basis, they wouldn't be able to perform the jobs that you're hiring them to do. I think that's the point that I'm trying to make. You have to honor and respect people's time and understand it might be a simple request, right? But if it gets to the point where it is interfering in operating this district on a day-to-day basis, and again, I think that if Deianne is unsure about whether she should be spending her time on that, I would say no. Right? I don't have time to do it. And I'm not sure I should be spending my time on doing that. >> I don't have so many questions. >> Another example, I'm on the negotiations committee and compared to Shane on the budget negotiations committee. The the things that I

029would probably have authority to request information on would probably be like more narrow than Shane if it's if I'm just on negotiations. I would say you probably can request and again I think if you're on a negotiations committee I think you need to view your staff and on other committees as well as resources right if you need to know you know how much you're spending on X or what the salary matrix is actually costing or if everybody gets a 3% increase what does that mean for the district >> it would have to be related to negotiation >> it should be yes Yes. So again, setting direction for the district. So let me get back to something. Um number one, I'm glad to hear that you have a staff plan in place and I'm glad to

030hear that you look at it and it sounds like maybe even tweak it once a year. I think what you also need to be thinking about are the discussions and actions of this board aligned with your mission, your vision and your goals. It's one way to sort of keep a check in terms of what this board is spending its time on, right? And again, I would say get out of the day-to-day management of the school. I don't think any of you in your capacity as trustees likely have the time to do that. And again, it's not your role. But I do think that when you're looking at, you know, anything that's on your agendas, you should be able to tie it into some aspect of your strategic plan. Okay. So, setting the direction of this

031district job number one. Number two is allocating and providing the resources to move in the direction that you want to go. Okay, easier said than done, right? Just given, you know, the budget constraints. But if you have a Strat plan, you want to make sure, and I'll give you an example. I was doing engaging in a strategic planning meeting years ago and there were oh probably twice as many people sitting in the room and then somebody made the comment that well the budget committee meeting is actually meeting in in the next room and I'm like why are they not in here with us right that's a perfect example of making sure that you're aligning your resources with with the direction that the district wants to go And then lastly is oversight. Are we moving in

032the direction that we want to go? If not, why? What are the barriers that we're experiencing? Are we satisfied with the pace that we're moving? If we're not satisfied with the pace or progress, again, what is standing in our way? And the nice thing about a strategic plan when you're looking at again up and out is if your strategies aren't working, change them to make sure that they are aligned with where the district wants to go. I think the other thing that you can do with a strategic plan is it helps out when there is a change in any seat here, right? where somebody new coming in doesn't take you sideways, right? You have a plan in place. And don't take that to mean that the status quo is acceptable. There's always room for improvement.

033But if you have a plan and you're using it correctly, when you know, for example, somebody new comes on this board, you don't just switch directions. You keep going. you improve it as you go, but you don't lose sight of everything that you've been doing. And the same is true, you know, if you're administrative staff. Um, you know, when you have positions where people leave, um, a lot of districts that that don't use this strategic plan correctly, they just start heading down a different direction. And quite frankly, they never really make progress because they're constantly in a state of transition. And I think you want to avoid that. Okay. So, I would tell you to keep that strap plan at the forefront of everything that you do. Um, one of the things that we do

034at MTSBA, and this is just food for thought, if you're if the board wants more information on are we making progress on this plan, you can put mechanisms in place where your staff provide progress reports. And maybe you already do that. We do that with the MTSBA board quarterly where we say staff, we want to know the outcomes, not what you're doing every day, right? Because what you're doing doesn't always result in the outcomes. We want outcomebased information in the strategic plan. I think that's a great way to keep this board informed about what is happening in your district on an ongoing basis. Okay. So again, food for thought. Um, anybody have any questions or again I will sit here and and monologue for as long as you allow me to >> just I guess

035to clarify. So the strategic plan that we're talking about, Don, is the one on the website, right? That is like >> goals from that the strategic plan by the state goals that you said are taken from that, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay, just want to make sure >> that is geared to one of those engagement carries through all of our so that's help >> and I'm I'm not suggesting to make your meetings longer than they are. Okay. I do think that these types of work sessions and maybe you already do them where you don't have an agenda that's four pages long. These types of work sessions where you're just engaging in dialogue can be really helpful to bring people together and to just discuss issues. Of course, you have to notice it up and comply

036with the open meeting laws, but it also gives you an opportunity to have informal discussions with one another without, you know, the 40point agendas that you have, you know, at your regular meetings. Just again, food for thought. Um, there are a couple of things that I want to go over to. Um, so when you're looking at being a trustee of the board, there are certain legal duties that actually come from common law. Okay? And I'll ask you if you know what these mean. Duty of care, duty of loyalty, and duty of obedience. Anybody ever hear of those? No. Duty of care. I'll tell you what it means from a legal perspective and then I'll tell you what it means from a practical perspective. Duty of care means that when you are sitting here as a

037trustee that your conduct is measured against what a reasonable prudent person would do in your shoes. Okay. In law school, we call it the reasonable person standard. Okay? And again, people might not like your decisions and people have the ability to sue you as a school board, right? You're protected again under the district's liability insurance because you're acting together here. But duty of care means that for any of you when you're sitting here as a trustee, your conduct is measured against what a reasonable prudent person would do if they were sitting in your seat. Okay. Duty of care from a practical perspective means that you come to your board meetings prepared to engage in meaningful dialogue and deliberation about the issues that are on your agenda. Okay. I again I've sat on many boards. I

038know that you know all of us are strapped for time but at an elementary level it means that you have reviewed your board packet before you get into this meeting so that again you can engage in meaningful dialogue and deliberation about the items that are on that agenda or part of that packet. Okay. Um, what happens if one of you, let's say your packet goes out, what happens if one of you has a question about something that's on that agenda? You guys ever have that circumstance come up? >> How do you handle that as a board or individual trustees >> if they want more information >> or if they have a question? I think in the past we've kind of directed to Don and asked him so individually if we had more questions at least

039that's kind of the direction we've gone in the past >> and I think that that's fair right if you if there's something on the agenda and that's typically >> with a reasonable amount of knowledge >> yeah I I would agree and and hear me out for a minute um If one of you has a question, and again, I think you have to think about your staff's time, right? And I'm not telling you that you should engage in discussions outside of this board group because the public has the right under Montana law to come and observe your dialogue and your deliberations and your actions. They have the right of input of course before you take action on anything and they have the right of input on non-aggenda items. Okay. But you want to make sure that

040each of you that you have a culture in this district where and again I think the onus is on a trustee to review the packet before you come in here so that if you have questions you're prepared to ask them. And there's nothing wrong with asking a question of Deianne or Don beforehand, but one of the things that people pick up on really quickly is playing the gotcha game. You know, where a trustee is trying to ask questions just to throw somebody under the bus in a public forum, right? Public picks up on that real fast. I always tell trustees, don't do that to your administration and administration. Don't do that to your board. There's there's this level of trust and respect and integrity that you want to make sure that is ingrained in the

041culture of any public school. But that's duty of care. Coming to board meetings, you know, informed about the issues and again talking through them. And of course, you want to make sure I don't know how long your board meetings typically last. Probably a couple of hours. >> Couple. It depends. >> Yeah. >> Beginning of the year and end of the year the worst because everybody's closing everything out. >> Yeah. >> Everybody's got a lot of presentations and things like that. >> Yeah. >> Middle of the year. I mean, we've had up in 45 minutes before where there was just a lot of business unusual and just >> and you probably noticed one of I gave you guys a couple of different instruments. One is a board governance assessment and and I don't know if we

042want to get into that tonight. We we might talk about that somewhat, but that's a perfect example of a blood work session where you work through that and if you guys are not operating at the level that you want to operate, then you figure out how to tweak the way that you're operating so that you are focusing more on policy and governance and less to the right of the continuum which is more in the area of day-to-day today activities and management. Okay. And again, I think that if we have time, we'll talk about those tonight. Um, anybody have any questions on duty of care? It's pretty easy to understand. >> Would it be reasonable to assume that if I have a question, but should I I'm going to keep using tonight. If I have a

043question about going, she does a report every month from high school. Okay. and I just something pops into my head. It's not a gotcha moment. It's more of a can we have more information on this? I don't want to put it on the spot. Should I voice that at the board meeting or should I get with Don offline and say, "Hey, can we get more information on this for the next board meeting?" >> I I if you're following the chain of command and it sounds to me like you do, I think you run that through dawn. >> Okay. and say, you know, it would be helpful if I think for the board if we had, you know, additional detail on X, Y, and Z. >> Okay. I guess just to follow that through with the

044process then if Josh is asking the question to Don and Don provides it to Josh should that be distributed to the rest of the board forformational purposes or is that just I think you know like individual trustees like it might be helpful again chain of command or whatever is if he wants to know more information about it it might be beneficial to us the rest of us. Yeah. And it typically is, right? Um, and again, that's it's not up to me to tell you guys how you're going to operate as a board and staff leadership team. I think you guys need to decide what protocols you have in place for the exchange of information between this board and your administrative staff. Okay. I I think you can get as formal as if any of the

045trustees have any questions, they could run them through the two of you, right? You could be as informal as you know trustees could ask your administration but again I would just caution you if all of you are asking questions of your administrative staff you're likely tying them up in knots when they have other things to do. So I think and and maybe by the end of today we can talk about protocols and gain consensus on how you're going to operate moving forward. One of the things that that I like to do at the end of these sessions is to say, okay, are there any areas where we can improve in terms of the way that the board is operating or in terms of the way that this board and our staff leadership team are interacting

046to make sure that you guys are acting as a cohesive leadership team. And that doesn't mean that everybody agrees, right? What it means is that from a process perspective, you all understand that as an individual trustee, yes, I can do this or as an individual trustee, no, I can't do that. That that's not my role. Okay? And again, I think it might be good to gain consensus on some of those things before we leave here tonight. Okay. Let me move on for a minute unless we have other questions on duty of care. Um, duty of loyalty. Anybody ever hear of that? Duty of loyalty is a I think complicated duty of a trustee. And the reason that I say that is because with capacity as a trustee, your duty and your loyalty and your obligations

047are to this organization, this district that you're serving and no one else, not even yourself. Okay? I have had trustees ask me when I bring this issue up about whether or not as a trustee I can put the interests of my children and my family first when I am making decisions for this board and the answer to that question is no okay duty of loyalty requires undivided loyalty to the organization that you're serving even if it impacts you negatively. And I'll give you an example. I have a good friend that sits on a three member board in this state. They were considering going to a 4-day school week. She had a child that had special needs and she called me because she knew she was going to be the swingboat at the board meeting that

048night and said, "I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. My child needs to be in school 5 days a week." And I said, "What do you think is good for the district and the overall students that you're serving and the families that you're serving?" and she said, "I think actually for most and for the district, a 4-day school week would probably be best." And they said, "You just answered your own question. You have a duty and obligation to go to that meeting tonight and vote in a manner that you believe is in the best interest of the district." And I always say, put your students, well, you couldn't fit them all within this um rectangle, but put the students of this district in the forefront of this room and make sure that every

049decision that you make is in the best interests of the students and the families that you're serving. Okay? And even if it impacts you negatively, even if it impacts your children negatively or your neighbor or your cousin or your spouse, we see that even with negotiations, right? Where, for example, if you're on a negotiations committee. Um, and let's say that one or more of you have a spouse that works for the district. You cannot be thinking about, gee, what would a 3% increase be? That, you know, sure would be nice if we had an increase on insurance. No, the question is, is that in the best interest of the district, not whether or not it's in your best interest. That's difficult to do from a human perspective. Right? I know me, I always like to

050think about myself and my son. At any rate, that's what you're required to do. Okay? So, always be thinking about your loyalty and your undivided loyalty. And sometimes you might, although we probably tell you that, you know, if you can't make a decision, and there's only certain circumstances where you can abstain, legally abstain in this state, and one of them is when the board is considering hiring a relative of any of you, right? You have to abstain and the decision has to be unanimous by all remaining trustees. Which means that if one of you is gone or absent, don't even bother voting on it because the law requires all remaining trustees other than those who are related to the individual that you're considering hiring have to vote affirmatively. Otherwise, it's a non-hire. Okay. So, like

051I have elections coming up and I have lots of parents mad because I voted on what was best for the community and the school rather than what would have helped my child and you know the small percentage that it would have helped. How do we navigate that? Because like now everybody's like why aren't you on the board just not doing what helps me? I will answer your question here in a few minutes because I think I can put it I think I can put it in context for you. Okay. >> Because I have a high achieving son and you know yeah he I would love for him to be able to leave the school with a associates degree but it's not fiscally responsible for me to vote that way. The district doesn't have the money

052or doesn't have the the staffing for it. So like I voted no because >> although think about the future future ready payment under house bill 252 >> everybody talks about the stars act but the second half of that is the future ready payment right >> where you're looking at 15 credits 30 credits or associates credits for additional quality educator I don't want to get off but at any rate um so yeah anyone have questions on duty of loyalty. It's pretty self-explanatory, I think, and it's it's easier said than done. No doubt about it. Um, the last duty is the duty of obedience. I always hate the way that sounds, but duty of obedience means that when you come on to a board, you agree to couple of things. comply with the mission and vision of

053this district. And that goes back to your strategic planning process. And again, it doesn't mean that the status quo is it, right? But there are certain norms. I call them norms of governing behavior. the way that a board operates and acts. Duty of obedience means that when you're on this board or when you come onto this board, you agree to comply with the norms of governing behavior. This is the way that we behave as a board. This is the way that we communicate with our staff. This is the way that we don't communicate with our staff. And I think again what I would like to do, time permitting, if if we could maybe and maybe you guys already have them in place, I doubt it, just think about norms of governing behavior. How are we

054all going to operate? So again, not that we're all on the same page on every issue, but we know what we can expect of one another when we're sitting at this table or when we're interacting with our staff. Okay. because I think it would be good again if you want to look at outcomes for us to look at outcomes before the end of this meeting. Okay. So, duty of care, duty of loyalty and duty of obedience. Three legal duties under the law. Going back to your question, the other thing that you need to think about and again if you want to view yourselves as effective governors, okay, whether or not you view yourself as a representative of or representative for, anybody know what I'm talking about? So, hear me out for a minute. If I

055sit on this board and I view my role, let's say that I was elected on this board a year ago, okay? And I view my board or I view my position on this board as I'm a representative for the people that sent me to this table, right? I'm always going to vote in a manner that's consistent with my ideology and my 45 closest friends who got me to the table, right? You view yourself as a representative for someone other than this district. What you get if you're looking at the duties of care, loyalty, and obedience is a violation of the duty of loyalty. Okay. ineffective form of the way that you view yourself as an individual trustee. If you view yourself as a representative of it means you understand that you are a representative of

056this district. As soon as you take the oath of office, you understand your duty of care, loyalty, and obedience, right? and you understand that the decisions that you are going to make are going to be what you believe to be in the best interest of this district. Now understand that trustees have different ideas about the way that things should work and your time to advocate for POS because once this board engages in dialogue and takes a vote on anything, you have a duty and obligation under the duty of care, loyalty, and obedience to support the majority will of this board, like it or not. Okay, going back to your question, you might say, okay, so if I view myself as representative of what you just described, how do you explain that to people? And I

057think you view it, you explain it just the way that I just said that this board considered all of the potential options and the board ultimately decided that option A was the best way to go. And even if I was impacted negatively, I believe that that is in the best interests of the district. you're complying with your representative of position, but you're also explaining to people that might be angry with you, you know, why the board voted. And I think if you explain the process to them, they better understand it. I had that question come up when I was doing a training with a board a couple of years ago and it was on the issue of levies and taxes and the trustees said I'm not in favor of my taxes going up and neither

058are my hundred friends and I said well nobody really is right and he said well how do you square that representative for versus of and I said well you either vote for it and explain to your 45 closest friends why you voted for it or if you didn't vote for it, you still have an obligation to support the majority will of the board. And you explain to them that you advocated for your position, but the board ultimately voted to run a levy election. And this is why because the board determined that we need X and we need Y. Right? That's the way I think that you handle and listen, you're never going to be able to please everybody, right? Um, but I think if people understand that representative of versus four, it's it's easier and

059all of you understand that you're not anyone's representative. You represent this district. >> Josh, is that something that like that duty of Carol's obedience? Is that something that we can highlight in the meeting tomorrow? >> I don't think the community understands. I think they do very much feel that we are representatives of them and our for them. But I like the way that was explained that that that is our base mission is the duty of careless and obedience. I think that might be helpful for the community. >> I can definitely put that out there. >> Thank you, Jo. >> And are we close to point because we have food? Yeah, you can you can tell me to shut up anytime you want to. >> Your time's valuable, too. I just There's food over there. We

060can go eat and then if you want to, we can keep talking or >> No, we'll do whatever you want. You should have cut me off a long time ago. How long's it been sitting there? >> It's only been an hour. >> An hour. >> Tin foil. It'll be >> just worried we don't have enough. Oh, I was like, are you serious? cuz I didn't look how >> much to know a lot of stuff like I Make sure you pick up Hey, Thank you for >> I would encourage you to send her a demon for doing that. She likes positive reinfor uh questions or comments before we discuss further. >> No, you guys are an easy crowd. I guess maybe I do have a question. You know, we have a lot of maybe they're all

061parents on our board and if they want to speak freely, you know, about their specific speaking on their students behalf, can they do that? Do they have to leave go to the comments? I mean, what what are the what are the rules? because I mean everyone's everyone here has students in school and I'm just wondering >> that's a good question and I'll pose the question to you guys. So, uh, if you're acting in the official capacity as trustee, do you think that you should have the allowance, I'll call it, to go to the podium as a member of the public? Anybody think? Yes. >> I think that falls into duty of loyalty. I think it also falls into the capacity issue that we first talked about. You are at your meetings acting in your official

062capacity as trustees. You're not a member of the public in those settings. >> Now, if you guys all said hogwash, that's what we want to do as a board. I would say okay. But again, you have to understand the distinction between when you're acting your in your official capacity as trustee and when you're acting in your capacity as a a parent or community member. >> Right. Now, when we email the teachers, like I always email my personal email, I'm going to talk with teachers or >> as a parent. >> Yeah. and then never use my like board on board conversations with teachers when it comes to kids. Is that like the proper protocol for that? >> Yeah, I I would say so. I think it's hard. I mean, let's face it, the teachers know that

063you're a member of this board. And again, I think as as long as people understand that when you're acting here collectively together, you're acting in your capacity as a trustee. In other settings, you're acting in your capacity as a parent. Um, just understand that people probably view you differently, you know, because you are on this board and there's no way to get around that. But yeah, I would say that in your communications with your son or daughter's teachers, I think that that would be appropriate. What you never want to do is use your authority as a trustee to try and get some type of action um that you wouldn't otherwise get if you weren't a trustee. You know, using that as an advantage. That's one of those issues that you see in terms of the

064conflicts of interest. using your your position as a trustee to gain some advantage or to disadvantage somebody else as a result of your being on this board. But yeah, you don't I mean I think it's also important to understand that when you come onto a board, right, you don't you lose your constitutional rights as an individual. You still have those. You just need to know that uh your authority as trustee is limited. It's not all-incclusive, right? And I think as long as everybody understands that, like I said, I think the biggest risk, one of the biggest risks for trustees is not clearly expressing and communicating to people that you don't have the authority to help them and giving them the impression that you do. I I've dealt with that a couple of times where, you

065know, a trustee going back to my example of me meeting with Josh, dealt with a circumstance where a trustee agreed to meet with a disgruntled employee who believed they were being sexually harassed at school. And nobody knows what happened in that meeting because no one else was present other than the trustee and the individual employee. But let me tell you, it went south. Um, and the district ended up ultimately settling that case. But that's one circumstance as a trustee you never want to find yourself in because a lot of the allegations that were involved in that issue stemmed from the meeting that the trustee had with the individual about what was said to them and their employment in the district. Of course, the trustee denied it, but then you're looking at a credibility issue, right?

066Is the employee credible or is the trustee credible? And I would just tell you, never put yourselves in that circumstance where somebody can claim that you said something about again when you're looking at complaints. It's tough to defend yourself and then you're looking at, you know, creating liability for the district, creating liability potentially for yourselves, which you never want to do. just be leerary about, you know, oh, can I meet with you because I have this issue at school. Best thing that you can do is to say unequivocally, I don't have the authority to help it. And then you direct them to Don and his staff. You can even direct them to the 1700 policy if you want. At that point in time, you're out. You don't check up to see how it's going, whether

067their issue has been resolved. Because the other thing that happens if if somebody is coming to you and they think you have the authority to act when they find out that you don't or they don't get the result that they wanted from this board they end up example that I'm giving you and the case that I handled they end up poking the finger and pointing the finger at the individual that they went to in the first place. Okay. >> We just had non-reuse. We just did non-renews and >> one of the teachers >> recently. >> Yes. >> One of the teachers that was nonrenewed asked me for a letter of recommendation. I just sent it to answering this, not doing it because that's not my place. >> Yeah, I tend to agree with you. We'd

068actually talked in our office about getting a model policy in place on letters of reference or recommendation. Um, and I think that that with or without a policy, I would agree with the quite a bit, right? You don't really have I I'm not sure that number one, you have the authority to write a letter of reference, right? You most certainly don't as a trustee. And then of course it's very hard to speak to their performance when you don't know what their performance is. You never want to in this state we have what is called negligent referral. I realize I'm getting into the weeds here now, but you never want to give a reference um and state something positively that you don't know the truth or negatively when there's no documentation to show for it. The

069opinions in letters of references can come back and invite you. So yeah, I would agree with you on that. and getting through that process. We just did a training on that. Did any of you attend the training today that we put on from 1 to three while I was traveling over here >> on the non-renewal process? It's it's simple in the law. You can non-renew a non-tenure teacher without cause at the end of their first, end of their second or end of their third year. Right? And then after that offer an acceptance of the fourth consecutive contract. Of course you have to have cause to terminate they acquire tenure. Very simple statement. And then of course in the 2025 session there was another provision that if you state financial reasons it still constitutes without cost.

070>> But again very simple statement in the law. It twists usually administrators and boards and knots because people don't I don't know what your board meeting was like but people don't understand. And I think the best way to explain it if you have you know people that are angry or they don't understand is to say that teachers in their first three years of employment are probationary employees. They are on probation for their first, second, and third year of employment. And the tradeoff is if it's a good fit and they're offered and accepted their fourth consecutive contract, they acquire valuable and substantial rights in their employment. It doesn't mean that they are, you know, a lifelong employee. People always say that you can't terminate a tenure teacher. Yes, you can. They of course you got to

071comply with their due process rights. Is it easy? No. But that's how you explain it to people when they don't understand. What do you mean? You're somebody goes like, you know, you're just creating havoc for them without any reasons. There's always reasons. Whether or not that constitutes good cause under the laws is a different standard. So, sounds like you may have managed the meeting better than most. >> Uh, Stacy sent out an email before like a week before the meeting because Christy was this year's first year for non-renews and to the full board like, "Hey, this is non-renew season. This is what's going to happen." And she laid everything out so that I think we were very well informed when it came Yeah. had published something last spring. >> The guidance. >> Yeah. And so

072I attached that. >> Yeah. >> That's what they went through today. Although Lance called me on the way here and he's like, I have to talk to you about something like we just put the guy out. One thing that I I want to reference is um some people and I don't know if it exists here but it usually does on most boards. I mean, nobody on this board should feel disenfranchised, right? That's why I think when you come to your board meetings, you engage in open dialogue and deliberation. Hopefully, I think you guys have a culture where you're you feel free to speak your opinion on issues, right? Um, I'm I'm not one for listening to what people say. I think as an attorney, we're trained not to listen to people. We're trained to be

073talking over people or thinking about our next argument when somebody else is talking. But I think on a board, you have to suspend that natural inclination. Um, and make sure that everybody's afforded an opportunity to speak their opinion on things. And again, that's why local control in Montana works, right? Everybody comes from different walks of life. You have different perspectives. you bring those to the table and ultimately you make what you believe to be the best decisions for this district considering all of the different perspectives. Um, one of the things that I think some trustees um I wouldn't say they necessarily have an issue with it, but I think you have to recognize that and this goes back to the communication with your administrative staff. Typically the board chair, maybe vice chair, the clerk and

074superintendent probably work closer together than other people on the board. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they have more information about substantive issues, but just in terms of preparing the agenda, you have to go through that agenda. You probably, I think, have to sign off on it, right? Per your policy. And you also, I think, when you're setting that agenda, you also want to anticipate things that might happen at that meeting, right? Do we anticipate that maybe on this issue um we might be going into an executive session? remember it. We have a very narrow um interpretation where boards can only go into close session under limited circumstances. I'll bet my staff are asked at least once a week, is it okay for a board to negotiate in close session? The answer is no. In

0751994, the Montana Supreme Court, I think it was a case out of Great Falls, had that and they said, "No, you cannot negotiate. The public has the right to come and observe what you're doing." Um, and I think you guys know that under Montana law, you can really only go into close session for three reasons. One is if the chair and only the chair makes a determination that somebody's individual privacy rights clearly exceed the public's right to know. That's a heightened standard. So it's not just exceeds the public's right to know, clearly exceeds the public's right to know. We know from court cases that the performance of employees is one of those areas where people have a right of privacy, but your employees don't really have a whole lot of priv privacy in other areas.

076their contracts or public records. It's not as though you copied them, but if somebody made a public records request, um, but the threshold is fairly high that you have to make that determination that an individual's privacy rights clearly exceed the merits of public disclosure. And if that individual waves their privacy right, you lose the authority to keep the meeting closed. Unless, of course, there are competing privacy interests at stake. Then what the courts have said is you don't have to go into close session and come out of close session and in out. You have the authority to weigh those privacy rights and determine that you're staying in close session. Nine times out of ten if you're dealing with a privacy right issue um it typically particularly when it's employees there's usually some other person involved

077right might be an administrator um they also have a right of privacy if somebody wants to you know make comments about his or her performance and then of course the other exception is litigation strategy right? Where if somebody is threatening to sue you or you're involved in litigation, you have the ability to be in a close session with your attorney to discuss litigation strategy. It does not allow you as a board to go into close session without an attorney and discuss litigation strategy. And then the only other exception is on safety plans. If you're discussing your safety plans and you think it would be detrimental for members of the public to know what you're going to do in certain circumstances, which it probably would be, you have the ability to discuss those safety plans in

078close session. Other than that, the public has the right to come and observe what you're doing as a board. They have the right to um, as I said earlier, to participate before you take a vote. Um, we just talked about how you, again, that was one of the questions that Lance and I were talking about. How do you do that on a non-renewal of a non-tenure teacher, right? Allowing public to comment and at the same time not letting them go so far as to violate someone's rights of privacy. There's just this balancing act that I think our boards need to to go through on that. But how do you think you're I guess I'll ask you this question because I think most of you are pretty well-versed in open meeting laws. Am I correct? Or

079do you want me to give you the >> I'd like to think so. >> 10,000 foot. I think you are too. But how do you think and it goes to one of the instruments that I attached. So there's two instruments. One is a board governance assessment, right? How are you operating as a board? And the other one is a board meeting assessment. How are our meetings going? Are there areas where we can improve? Are we spending too much time on one issue? Are we spending too much time engaging in dialogue? Um, and I don't necessarily think that's the case, but I guess I would like to hear from you guys to maybe talk about areas where you think you can improve in your processes and in your governance and even in your board meetings. Anybody

080want to >> I had made one note um on the board meeting evaluation >> form on respect. Um I gave us a three on encouraging diversity of viewpoints. Um I think we could better encourage diversity of viewpoints. We don't necessarily discourage it, but how how can we better encourage that one >> where you think you might be able to improve? >> Yeah, like I said, we I don't feel that we discourage it, but to be more inclusive. Are you are you thinking about encouraging the diversity of viewpoints from the board or >> um I guess so because I don't think the public has any issue with >> making comments. >> Yeah. >> With diversity of viewpoints. Yeah. I think when you're talking about diversity of viewpoints, and hear me out for a minute when I

081was talking about not listening to people, I think it's a dangerous and I do it too. Everybody does it. I think it's a dangerous road to go down when um let's say that I'm on this board and I'll use Deian as an example. Let's say that I don't really like you right. I I don't like the way you think. I don't like the opinions and expressions that come out of your mouth. I think it's a dangerous road to um not listen to minority viewpoints. >> Okay. There there can be value in people that think differently. In fact, sometimes it's really the impetus for change, right? Where we really don't want to hear that. But, you know, you might go home and think, well, you know, she did make a good point, even though I totally

082discounted what she had to say. I do think if and I think that's kind of what you're talking about. You need to make sure that if people have a different viewpoint about an issue before this board that they're shown the respect that anyone else would have in expressing that viewpoint without judging. I'm I'm a judger. I always like to judge people, right? And I think that um again there's a danger in in conclu making conclusions about what people say. Um and I'll use again, you know, if you're sitting next to somebody that you don't really like, you don't share their viewpoints, at least show them the respect of listening to them um and considering the input that they have. >> I think we do that pretty well. We're not major interrupters talk over the toppers.

083I just and you know Josh of course always asks for you know public comment board comment board discussion so there is that opportunity given but maybe I was just looking too deeply into this. >> Does everyone else feel like you have an opportunity to express your viewpoints openly? And >> I think it depends on the subject and if we're halfway through a board meeting that's been heated or you know wherever I mean whatever that circumstance might be. So I don't know I mean I agree Stacy and you know thoughts maybe just even asking individual trustees to add their two not add their two cents but you know something like that. I've thought about that in the past just because I think some of us do speak up, some of us might not have anything to

084say, but are we missing an opportunity to give them a a speaking ground? I think as long as everybody's given the opportunity to express their viewpoints. The one thing that you don't want to get into either is somebody, and I'm not suggesting at all that it happens on this board, where somebody monopolizes the conversation to the point where, you know, and and I think I tend to do that, too. And it's it's not a positive trait where if I push hard enough, I will convince people to go my way. I think everybody needs to recognize that they have the the right of input, but um again, your time to advocate is before the board votes, but I think once you speak your piece, you have to be able to recognize that other people have the

085right to express their opinion as well. And again, if you don't get your way, I would tell you not to leave this room angry, right? just say, "Look, you know, I I couldn't convince the rest of the board to go my way on this. I have a duty and obligation to support the majority will of the board, and when I walk out of here, if people ask, yeah, I'm going to tell them that I voted against it, but the board voted in favor of it." And here's why the board voted in favor of it. I mean, your minutes are the best reflection, right, of the wise. And again, your minutes are not intended to be a verbatim transcript of what people said at a meeting. As soon as you start indicating in minutes what people

086said, you're missing what other people, and I'm not suggesting you do that at all, but there are there are clerks that do. It's intended to capture the general discussion and then of course make sure that the votes are recorded in your minutes as is required by >> so with that being said every um board meeting is recorded >> and so if I put just discussion with held is that then is that fine because I mean sometimes it can go >> yeah I think you could say yeah the board engaged in a lengthy discussion of X, Y, and Z. And after fully engaging in dialogue over the issue issue, the board voted as follows. Or motion was made, seconded. Board chair asked for public input. There were several people that spoke in favor, several people against.

087And here's the vote of the board. >> Does this the your point, Stacy, encourage a few points. Does that extend to when you're hearing from the community as well because it seems like a slippery slope particularly as we've had here lately. I think we do encourage the public to speak but but I feel like there has to also be a point where like they are not monopolizing the meeting or taking over the meeting and Josh may have to step in and interrupt. I mean it's a slippery slope. you hear their I feel they I think they feel disrespected >> when we say politely, you know, enough is enough. How do you make sure they're being heard, but that they're not sometimes they like they're taking over the meeting, >> you know, or that they're um

088are just taking over the conversation. So, how do you do that? >> So, let me ask you this question. So, and when we're talking about legal requirements, understand that that is the floor, right? You can't go below. You can always do more. And so the public is um allowed under our constitution to participate in your board meetings. And what that means is there's two forms of public input. One is on non-aggenda items under public comment. And the second one is before this board votes on an issue. Now some boards and it depends upon the culture that you've created as well in your boardroom. Some boards allow sort of an open dialogue even on discussion items. I don't know if you guys do that. >> That's pretty much what we do. We have open discussion >>

089and I think >> they just have to be recognized. They can't over somebody. I'm not telling you that you can't do that. The law doesn't require it. But again, I think you guys have set the culture in this district. And I'm not suggesting that, you know, you stop doing that because people likely now are used to, you know, being able if it's on the discussion. I think if you're and it doesn't sound like your meetings are longer than they should be, but I do think that once somebody speaks to an issue, um, and and the public sort of lives by the same protocols as you guys do, if they're trying to convince you to do something, so you know, they speak, they listen to you guys, oh, they have another comment, they want to speak

090again. >> Yeah. I don't know that you need to necessarily allow that. And and but hear me out for a minute. People are going to they don't like change. They're used to coming in here and >> we moved our public comment to the bottom of our holy cow. >> What was that say about that? Had a comment about comments. >> Yeah. But I think you could say the board just had a training and we were talking about the effectiveness of our meetings. We do want to hear what people think on the issues that are on our agendas. In fact, even though we're not required to do it by law, we do appreciate public comment even on discussion items. But for the sake of efficiency of our meetings, understand that we're going to do things a

091little bit differently. You have every right to still speak on a discussion item, but I'm going to recognize you once and then we're going to move on. I think if you sort of set the stage for we want to make sure that that our meetings are run effectively and efficiently while honoring and embracing the public's right of input. I think you can do that. People might get that they want, you know, 24 bites at the apple and now they're only getting one. But but I think they'll come to understand that yes, I mean the board is still listening to me even on discussion items and of course you have to ask for public input before you take a vote on anything. Um and same thing on on action items. If a member of the public

092speaks, you know, they don't just and then they hear the board talking about it. They they really don't have the right to say, "Oh, by the way," and >> they have the right of input, not this continual back and forth. But that's up to you guys. If you >> what I usually do is I ask for public comment first >> or public discussion from the public and then discussion from the board. And what happens what Christie >> is that after a motion in a second? >> Yes. But what Christie is talking about is like once the discussion of the board then the public wants to comment again >> and I think you can say again we just had a training we want to make blame on me I don't care we uh >> we just

093had a training >> we were talking about >> got it >> you know are we running our meetings as effectively as we can. Um, we want to hear from you and when I ask for public input, that is your opportunity for input. Once I bring it back to the board, the public participation period is over. >> May I ask the board if that is how we would like to proceed? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. The caveat if the board member has a question for the public >> followup to public a what did you mean by that? >> Yes. Okay. >> Because I do think that sometimes that dialogue is really helpful in making the decision that we can circle. I know it gets out of control sometimes, but I know it's helped me a lot a

094lot of times made my mind up on >> I think that's a good caveat where if you need clarification on what the public member said meant, but that does not give the public member to go back off on a tangent. And it seems like we have a lot of people that like want to argue about it instead of just Yeah. >> And they want to have that back and forth. So while we're talking up here, they'll jump up and yell or say something. It's like we're discussing right now. >> And I think they also need to recognize that this is not a town hall meeting, >> right? This is a board meeting that you guys are running where they have the opportunity to observe what you're doing and they have the right of input on

095non-aggenda items and the right of input on action items. And you guys are even going above and beyond that by allowing right of input or input not necessarily a right on discussion items. And a lot of times they'll we'll be discussing an item and they'll have a whole different tangent they want to go off about something that happened the day before. It's like we're not discussing that now with that. It has to be the motion. The discussion has to be based on the motion. Correct. >> It has to be related to the motion. Yes. Because you also do not want to find yourselves in a situation and we see this a lot on the public comment on non-aggenda items where people are not commenting they are asking questions. Right? And the whole purpose of the

096public comment is for a member of the public to raise an issue, not interrogate, not ask why you voted or why you did this or that, but to make a comment on something that is important to them that you have jurisdiction over. But as soon as you get into a back and forth on an issue, you are violating the open meeting laws because you're engaging in dialogue about an issue that's not on the agenda. And that's why you want to say this is an opportunity for you to comment to bring an issue to our attention. Now, it gets a little weird when board chairs are trained so um much where they where somebody asks a question and board chair says thank you. I think if somebody asks a simple question that could be answered with

097a yes or no answer, if they're looking for information, maybe it's financial information, maybe it's something that that your superintendent has. I think that you can say look you can visit you know go to the admin office business office and request that information rather than getting into a discussion about that issue during public comment on non-aggenda items. >> Okay. So is everybody okay with the caveat what Jackie proposed? Yeah. >> Handle on that way. >> Okay. at the next board meeting I will at the next regular board meeting bring that up if that's how we're going to do it. >> So I think just adding like what I see has been happening lately is the public wants to know how we're how we're getting to a decision. And so I mean that that seems to

098be what I hear the most is just like okay you're vote you know you got here and I want to understand how you got here. Um, so I I mean hearing their input, but I think just figuring out better ways to do some of that discussions. I don't know if it's again not public, but public, you know, supporting better supporting documents. I know I've heard that a couple of times. So just just some ideas that I think we can throw out of, you know, how do we make sure that when they're when they are coming that they're coming with I don't agree with you voting on X, Y, and Z because I've already they've already done their research and they're just giving us a specific opinion. I don't know. I mean, that's that's how I

099feel just with them, you know, lately. again they're they're all over the place because they're they're feeling like they're not heard is so >> I feel like even a few of us board members have kind of felt like same way it's like we've come to a decision unanimously but there's still some of us wondering why we're coming to that >> understanding and I know we can't delegate or you know go on for hours at board meetings but sometimes it feels like the conclusion's already been made and we're some of us are still trying to figure out why it's been Mhm. >> That's the public's doing that, too. I I think part of that is um as we discussed earlier, reading through your board packets and the supporting documentation. And if this board feels like you

100need more information to be informed before making those decisions, I think you need to have that communication with your admin. And that's the way to cor correct that. And again, I don't think that there's anything wrong with once your packets go out and and don't kill me. Okay. Once your packets go out, if if you have a question on something, you know, visiting with Deian, if it's financial or visiting with Don, um just and maybe if you have a question, maybe other trustees have the same question. If you really want to talk about transparency, you would say, look, you know, I went through this. I asked Don this question and and this is the information and I'm not suggesting that you do that to make your meetings longer, but I mean you do want to

101be informed about the decisions that you're making. The and I say that also with the caveat that your staff, your admin staff are in your buildings every day, particularly when you're talking about personnel issues. They know a lot more about what's going on with your staff. You guys might think you know things and you might hear different things from different people and remember people think that their opinion is fact and it's not. it's their opinion and perspective, right? Um, we always conflate the two, but on personnel issues, these people have the actual facts. And I think, um, you know, when you get a recommendation from your staff, it's just like the non-renewal of non-tenure teachers, right? I always tell administrators, don't get upset if your board doesn't go with you on every recommendation that you

102make. because if that happens um then we don't really need boards, right? There is a line of authority. Don's job is to make what he believes to be sound recommendations to this board. You guys have the authority in your own right to accept or reject those recommendations. Now, if you find yourselves in a position more often than not where you're not accepting those, I think that's a discussion worth having with your admin staff about where's the disconnect, right? And I think again just given that they are operating this district on a day-to-day basis, you have to recognize and give some credence to the fact that again they're making recommendations to you that they to be are sound. And again, I always call it a zone of accommodation. Their job is to make sound recommendations to

103the port. Your job is to make sound decisions. And most of the time they're the same, but not always. Would it make sense if before Excel say the agenda is posted, the the meeting is noticed. If a trustee has a question for admin that rather than just like writing Don the email, hey, can I get this information or Kelly that the entire board is copied on it? and then the post full response so that we're all on the same page getting the same information >> because sometimes I don't know enough about a topic that's on the agenda to know what questions I have and if somebody who does have >> that good but public comment >> no but as long as we don't deliberate or we get into areas where we're saying this or that

104are we actually talking about it? It would have to be where >> Stacy has a question about X. She copies the she emails Don >> CC's the full board >> Don's reply back >> and that's it. Yeah, you cannot engage in >> any discussion >> an email dialogue about that >> and even >> that's just my fear go there >> public board comm community or communications between the board is not correspondence correct >> like making decisions >> what do you mean it's not correspondence >> we don't have to put it as correspondence on our meetings any emails that we send to the board Um, >> why wouldn't you want to though? Like if it'sformational with no privacy information, I mean, maybe you have an example you can, but I'm I'm just wondering like why would

105we not want >> the public question for Don and it gets put on there. It's a good information related to the topic. >> So then do we want to also put like when the power went out and he updated the entire board of what was going on with the power? >> I see what you're saying. >> Then that's correspondence. The correspondence could end up being miles long. >> Yeah. But if the person that asked the question, they can bring it up in the public meeting saying, "I need I had an extra question on this. This is what Don gave me." And that would be public then. Also, >> I think you should all recognize that number one, do not engage in meetings virtually. >> And remember, under our open meeting law, they are triggered Whenever

106you hear and that might be with your eyes right hear act or discuss business under the jurisdiction of the district now if you're talking about a one-way street of information right >> yes related to an agenda item >> I agree recognize that I mean we don't know what a court would do if you're challenged on that, right? I I mean, if it's an information item, you could make the argument that it there wasn't they weren't engaging, they were simply asking for information. Just understand that each and every communication that you have with one another or with your admin staff that have anything to do with school district business is a public record. You should be prepared that it be on the front page of the Billings Gazette >> or in or in daily dispatch are

107>> fun. >> So is everybody okay with that process if we did that? Don thoughts. >> The only thing I get frustrated with is getting asked for information too much. I just think, you know, I try really hard to get this out. I tried a three last time six hours before. I mean, it's out there long enough for people to digest it, say, "Hey, I have a question." I don't understand why we wait till the meeting then to ask the question when I get to provide that information before she with enough time for them to say, "No, I left." That's the only thing is that I ask is if people have questions, ask those. I mean, I have access to everything here on my computer. There's nothing that I couldn't pull out and say, "Hey,

108here's what my space got. I thought that kind of stuff. That's the only thing. Otherwise, there's no big secrets in what anything else." I mean, it's like it's Yeah. Don't make it up. It's there. So, I mean, if people have questions, I have no trouble answering those. Even like Monday morning, if somebody's gone through over the weekend and said, "Hey, I have these questions." It's just as hard when we're upstairs at 3:00 and getting questions about stuff in two hours. That's that's the only thing that >> I think that I think that's fair. >> Yeah, I think that's very reasonable. by by Monday at the very latest because you've got a whole weekend to look it over and um so that's that's what I would >> we just all >> standard >> we just all

109have to realize we cannot discuss it's got to be a oneway street >> it's fine for that to say hey you have any information back if there's more information >> so I guess Josh like the one-way street again. I have a question. It's a one-way street to Dawn. Dawn one ways back, but then how does Jackie like that's what I'm still trying to understand is that p that process you're talking about one way. I mean again I think it's beneficial for Jackie to see what question I asked. >> So she so Don would respond back to everybody. >> Okay. Then like if I had a separate question, so I couldn't then go, okay, now that you said this, >> now we go further into this topic. I would have to create a brand new email

110with >> hopefully a question unrelated to Don's response, if that makes it like >> I I wouldn't even go that far. I think that you could find yourselves into a serial meeting even if you create a new email. I think that at that point in time and again you got to be careful about not engaging in dialogue outside of a board meeting. I think if you had further questions once Don says it and again I get what he's saying in terms of lastm minute questions when he's trying to prepare for a board meeting too. um you know call him up and and ask him and then I think you know in full transparency too >> bring it up at the board >> you could say look we had additional questions on this >> I guess

111>> given the fact of what's been going I this makes me a little bit nervous given what's been going on in the community what they've been saying and I think that >> I I understand the intent behind it and the spirit of it getting more information but it seems like a slippery slope I think I'm just one of seven of us. So, you know, whatever you guys want to do. >> Um, it does make me a little bit >> and I wasn't you suggesting that the trustee >> uh this is a minor detail. Trustee emailed Don and then Don responds and copies everybody. The trustee initiating that conversation copies everyone in that initial question. Um, and Don doesn't have a responsibility or obligation to answer that immediately. It's just it gives the rest of the

112board a heads up. This is where this trustee is is caught up on this or has questions about this area. And it's it's not even so much as Don's response as it is the trustes communication to Don and where they're questioning where there's a gap. >> And again, I I agree with you. It could be a slippery slope. And again, you don't know what a court would do when they look at hearing, acting, or discussing business under the jurisdiction of the district. Okay? >> Or we just do it where Christy has a question, she goes to Dawn, she comes to the meeting, that agenda item comes up and she says >> obligation to share my Yeah. >> I I had extra I had an additional information request. This is what I asked for. This is

113what Don provided. And then she's by herself. I actually think that's a better process. You're you're talking about transparency, right? Everybody knows that there was a question asked that, but Don answered it. And here's some additional information that I learned on Monday morning as you're sitting here engaging in dialogue. >> And there's zero chance of a unofficial meeting happen. Well, what you don't want is you don't want to create a culture where there is mistrust where people believe that this board is engaging in business outside of a board meeting. That's the last thing that any board wants, right? You want to make sure that the public understands that you're operating transparently, right? That they can trust you, that you guys are doing right. But I actually think that's a better process. I don't think there's

114anything wrong with any one of you before a meeting recognizing that he's got other things to do, right? Asking a question and then relaying that information. >> Yeah, I think that that works too. >> Does that work for you? >> See how much progress you guys have made tonight. I guess I could use some clarification on what I'm going to call meddling. So I mean like it's our job to >> meddling as in like in the election. >> So so we're hiring Don. We we reviewed on that's that's our job. But in order to do that we kind of have to have pretty good information on what's going on within the school, right? We need to understand, you know, in order to vote on a policy, we kind of have to understand how things work

115at the school and what does, you know what I mean? Like, I can't just have no understanding of what's going on in these doors and then come in and feel like I can make good decisions about what's best for the school. So, in order to do that, it's it's like we say here, I talk about like you pretty much like don't go anywhere beyond Dawn. But I feel like in order to get a real good picture, I mean, not Dawn, but in any s position where the manager is in charge, the manager is going to tell the boss, hey, things are going great, everything's wonderful, you know, like whatever. Well, a, you know, a good supervisor above them is going to go below that and and check in with employees and see how things are

116going and and review the, you know, the receipts for that day or whatever it is that is going. Where is that line? I feel like as a board member I need to pass some meddling within the doors but I don't want to overstep my bounds as a board member understanding like where that is I guess is a little hazy to me >> the other side of the coin what if you are asking a disgruntled employee >> sure you talk to and or whoever do >> right but the but the but the reality is in every situation there's three sides you know there's Yeah, >> there's this side and then there's some truth in somewhere in between. So I hear a dishonor employee, I hear dawn, the truth in the middle, and I feel like like

117I know we're just hovering above, but I feel like in order to make those good decisions, we have to do some research. We have to look into things. We have to ask some questions of communities and of the community members and the employees and that kind of stuff. I think you need to be careful about asking questions of I think it's fine to ask questions of community members because you are you in essence are representing the community when you're on this board again with the understanding that your duty and obligation is here. I think it's a dangerous road to go down because it starts to look like investigation work when you're questioning employees about an issue and I would just tell you I don't think that's the role of a trustee. I know that you

118guys have an obligation to visit the schools in this district by law once a year and I think if you haven't figured that out, it's up to the board to decide how you're going to do that. But I think just in terms of being in the buildings as a trustee, unless this board gives you the authority to do that, you don't have the authority to do that as a trustee and you're you're operating on your own. Um, and I would just tell you that I think that's a dangerous place to go. I think that there does have to be a level of trust between your admin staff and the board. And if there isn't, I think you need to discuss those issues and and find out where that chain is broken. um I just wouldn't

119get into and again I think if let's say you have an issue that that comes up let's take the non-renewal non tenure teacher issue you know you might say gee I' heard nothing but great things about this teacher and and now they're being recommended for non-renewal right that's a perfect example where you go in and visit with Dawn and say, "Look, I don't understand why you're making this recommendation. I've heard wonderful things about this employee. You know, you may even have a son or daughter in their classroom." Don is likely going to tell you that he and his staff have had opportunities to observe and to evaluate. He's not going to pull out the personnel file because none of you as individual trustees have the right to see those. The board does, but individual trustees

120don't. And he's likely just going to tell you that based upon his observation and the observation of his staff that he's not comfortable making a recommendation to keep the employee here. he's not going to go into performance issues. Um, likely not, right? Um, and let's face it, people that are non-renewed in their first three years of employment, it's not that they're bad people, they just may not be a good fit for this district. They will get a job somewhere else, trust me. And hopefully they're a good fit for the next district. Um, that's what I would tell you. I don't know if that helps you. And again, I think that these types of work sessions, let's say you got some major issue coming up and you know, I don't know what a a mega issue

121is for you guys, something that is fairly controversial. You could have a one-hour board work session just like we're doing now. and you could just talk about the pros and cons of it. We have a really good structure in in MTSBA strategic plan and I actually embedded in districts where it's called knowledgebased decision making where you gather facts about the issue at what your capacity is. We call it strategic position which really means your reputation. um what's going on that impacts this issue and the last question I think is always the toughest is what are the implication the ethical implications of the decisions that we're going to make there's likely going to be people that are disenfranchised or feeling like they are um and you that's what I would suggest maybe a process on some

122of those bigger issues where again and I know you guys have other lives Right. But sometimes these work sessions, I think, prove more beneficial to get information that you need than coming to a board meeting and feeling like you're potentially out in left field. Yeah, it's just it's really hard to make decisions sometimes because you don't feel like you can go get real answers. I mean, obviously you can go to Dawn and get answers, but it's it's just more complicated sometimes to know if you're making the right decision without doing your own digging. But that's it's good. It's helpful. I would like more work sessions. I like working things out. Like usually there's a solution somewhere in there that was better. It just seems like sometimes. >> Well, and I think if you do have

123work sessions, you know, oftentimes we think of issues and and solutions as path A or B. I mean, even think about it with the 4day school week, right? I don't know how many times over the course of my career I've been asked what I think about a 4 day school week versus a five day school week and I always say my opinion doesn't matter right what matters are the people that are involved in that community but I also tell people that if you're looking at 4day or 5day I think you're missing the boat I think you're missing the point the issue is not four or five. The that you're trying to solve is what schedule or what system can we put in place that best meets the needs of students, right? And it might be

124a hybrid of that in some fashion. It's not always path A or path B. And I think that's where the work sessions are helpful where you can throw out all sorts of ideas. And I always tell people I think you're looking at you know it's not just A or B. What you should be looking at again up and out mega issue is what schedule can we put in place where you know we're going to fully develop the full potential of each child in this school system >> and work sessions the differentiation between them work sessions have no action items on them otherwise they turn into board meetings >> yeah it's just I think you notice it up as a board work session you put the topic or topics on there. And again, I think you

125could say, look, we got to respect people's time, but you know, this maybe it's a big issue coming up on the agenda. Maybe it's two weeks before you say, look, can we spend an hour at a board work session just engaging in discussion about this issue. We're not making any decisions. We're just learning more about the issue and what our potential options might be. And again, I'm not trying to to put more on your plates or to cause you to have more board meetings, but sometimes that hour can really improve. >> Well, a one hour work session might save one hour in a board meeting. >> Five. >> Can only the chair call a work session or one trustee or does it need to be two trustees? >> Do we need a quorum? Um, >>

126the chair can call a special meeting. >> The chair or two trustees can call for I think what you do is I don't know that I would get that technical. I think you could say, and again, if you're talking about emailing one another and it's only on when can we all get together for a work session, I would have a hard time if a court said, "You're violating the open meeting laws when we're just trying to find a date and a time to work." Right. >> No, I I do that. >> Yeah. >> I hope that's not wrong. >> Yeah. But back to Stacy's question, just work session. We don't have to have a quorum present. We just have to have an agenda put out. >> Yeah. I mean, you would hope that you would

127have a quorum, right? But if you don't, just work session. Yeah. >> If I got to work and I can't get off or, you know, they're on vacation or whatever, a quorum is not required to have a work session, right? >> Okay. We've even done that with committees where you know your committees have to be less than a a quorum, right? >> But if you think that other people might want to be part of that, then >> let's as a board work session, >> right? But again, remember that, you know, even if you do that, I would still put on there public comment on n on n on n on n on n on n on n on n on n on n on agenda items and then just list the the topics that you

128intend to discuss so the public knows the topic that you're going to be discussing. Yeah, no problem putting a work session together if something wants me. I think it I think it's important like I guess if you have topics when you and Don are setting the agenda that you think will be controversial, you know, that we we plan ahead. So if they're going to be for next month or something that we have those work sessions ahead of that board meeting so that we're better better prepared is kind of how I would think would be a good opportunity. I mean, you guys, you know, I'm assuming. I mean, Kelly, you know, if somebody's gonna get mad about something, so >> anymore everything. No, I'm just kidding. >> What? I wore blue. >> I I guess in

129response to you, I would anticipate that those work sessions would be on issues of significance, >> you know, where you can kind of at least get your head wrapped around things and gather information. I think when you're meeting with Don, I think you guys need to come up with a game plan on, okay, do we think this is going to blow up with, you know, 45 people? Do you obviously need to make a decision about whether or not you're going to close a meeting down, right? And if you ever think that you might close a meeting down, we always encourage people to say, you know, on the agenda, possible executive session pursuant to 23203 MCA >> just to give people a forewarning that it might be coming, All right. What else? I like I wish

130you'd shut up. >> No, this is all so good. >> Back out of here. would uh can we go back to the original opening statement of you're only allowed to do things in a public meeting? Me as chair, I have to do a lot of stuff like I'm I'm in here. I got to sign all the payroll. I got to meetings. I got to do all the hiring. You know, I just did we just did contracts. So, >> got to sign contracts. >> I've been up here signing contracts and everything. And there's other times where like in policy where it gives the chair specific duties and powers like 1630 says that I'm a spokesperson for the board. >> So is that just in my position currently I just absorb those extra duties and that's my

131official capacity then? Yeah, I think anywhere where one this board delegates authority to you either through policy or otherwise >> and there are things that you have to do as board chair that no one else can do. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um, I also think that when it's in policy, even in your 1700 policy, which is not unusual in this state, you have the authority, I think, to dismiss a complaint. >> I do. if you feel like it doesn't rise to the level of a grievance. And remember, a grievance under 1700 is an allegation of policy or a law violation, right? And I I always encourage boards, in fact, I just had this discussion with another board last week where they wanted more flexibility for 17 policy and I told them that I think having

132those three options in there are good in terms of governance. Right? again. And it goes back to the fact that all of you have limited time to spend on this board and governing over this district. You want to make sure that you're spending your time wisely and things that aren't appropriately before this board. Think you have the authority under that 1700 policy to say it's not going to the board. Those are the types of things. And yes, I would also and I think I mentioned this uh maybe a few minutes ago that you know even Stacy too, you know, you guys are nominated and chosen really as board leadership, right? You just need to recognize that there are certain duties that go with that. when Josh is available, of course, you step into his shoes.

133Um, and there are likely just by the nature of that position that you may have greater access to information. And I say that because when you're setting the agenda and you're trying to figure out if there's going to be any glitches coming up on this issue or that issue, you likely have more information than the rest of that the board. And that's not to disenfranchise anybody. It's just by the nature of the role. The the agenda has to be approved by you. Everything that goes on that agenda has to be approved by you. And I've seen circumstances. I don't think you guys have ever dealt with this, but I've dealt with circumstances where the superintendent wants something on the agenda and the board chair does not want it on there for whatever reason. It doesn't

134go on there. in trouble now. >> Yay. We'll be thankful for Josh. So I guess just talking on the spokesperson piece of it and I just want to clarify my understanding of it is um again we would expect Josh to speak on behalf of the board on decisions the entire board made right like >> I don't know what does your policy say? It says I'm a spokesperson for the district. >> Okay. And and I just want I mean like I want to kind of I guess talk about what that looks like and what that means whether it's you or Stacy or or myself or Corey or whatever. And and I'm just saying my understanding of that policy was again you're whoever is in that chair or co-chair position is speaking on behalf of us after

135we've all agreed. So again we we've all agreed that we're going to do X Y and Z. So majority maybe one or two voted no but majority said yes. Right? And if the public or the news comes to you and says why did you not pass that mill levy or why did you pass that mill levy? We as a board have already decided that we're passing the mill levy because we've dialogued we've discussed we we know why we need it. Then you are then you're given the authority to speak on that. That's my understanding of it. >> I don't know. I could see other circumstances where, you know, if there's some issue going on in the district that is causing questions. And it's up to you guys where you have a point person to speak

136on behalf of the district whether it be a decision that was previously made by this board or not. I think that's up to you guys to interpret what that policy means. Um >> I feel like that's going on right now. The emails that the board is getting, we just responds to those, right? So, >> so I think is is that that's what we've been talking >> Well, I mean, I think it's part part of playing into it and just trying to understand, you know, like how do we how do we come together as a group and say, "Yes, we've given Josh authority to speak on our behalf like is it is it related to something we've already dialogued or we're we're saying Josh, we elected you. We we blind not blindly, but we trust you,

137right? We're going to trust that you're making that decision on our behalf. I I don't know. I don't know if I'm >> making any of decisions. >> So, I can't make decisions by myself. I >> like when we get a an email from the community, what why this is and Josh tackles that and answers on behalf of the board, >> but it's not really a decision. and he's just answering a question or are they talking about two different things? >> No, I mean I I think they're kind of combining together and I'm just trying to again decide what you know like as a board what we think is is is best. I interpreted the policy different. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Again, I think it's, you know, what do we what do we

138think? Do we do we think, you know, that this means yes, we tell Josh he can speak on our behalf after we've agreed in deliberation or are we agreeing that we trust that Josh is making the best decision? I I don't know. >> Do you have an example? >> No, not off the top of my head. Maybe 1700s. Let's go with that one just as a as an example. with the issue with our that's at the county superintendent. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's use that one. I I don't want to talk about any specific issue that you guys have substantively >> but just an issue in general like a 1700 we give him the authority >> and then the public's like well why has Josh got the authority to to do that >> because 1700 says

139that I can either >> okay >> I can deny the claim with an explanation of why I can set a committee to review it or it can be heard before the full board. Gotcha. That's >> yeah, maybe that's not >> I'm just I mean again I'm trying to you know >> I think what you're asking for clarification on if I'm understanding your question is does Josh have the ability and authority to speak on any issue involving this school when asked by a newspaper or someone else to take a position or does he only have the author authority to speak on an issue after the board approves of it. I would, and again, it's up to you guys to decide that. I unless there's something in the policy, I would think that he has that this

140board through policy has designated him to speak on issues that involve this school district. Now, he probably does so, I'm guessing, in consultation with Don. Every time I've been asked for a comment, it is I have no comment. >> Okay. Well, >> yeah. I mean, maybe that's >> but but also too is this is not me. This is just a division in May. We reorganize. If there's another >> if there's another chair and vice chair, those people absorb the same policy, not privileges, the same policy requirements that we had. So, they're going to be the spokesperson. It could be Corey. It could be Shane. They're going to be the spokesperson and they're going to have the 1700s stuff. They're going to be the one doing it. It's not just me. It's the position. >> Yeah.

141No, for sure. >> Since the board put them in those positions, I think that means that we designate them as the people that we think should >> make those decisions just because they're we have to vote on them being in these positions. And I can't make any decision by myself. I can't go out there and sign contracts on my own. I can't go out and make deals with people on my own. That's not being a spokesperson. In my view, being a spokesperson is somebody sends an email, what the hell's going on with this? I respond. Um, somebody approaches me and says, do you have a comment on this? I do not. I do not have a comment on this because I'm for a believer that anything I say can and will be used against me

142in the board of law. So, or if somebody else wants to answer emails, I'm 100% down with that. It's all you buddy. I only got a couple ideas. So, and then with the uh policy also states that I can I can task the chair as I see fit for betterment of the district. What is that? >> Co-chair you mean? >> Yeah, co-chair vice chair. Sorry. I can task them with taskings that better for benefit of the district. That is like extremely vague. >> I know she steps in if I'm >> Yeah, she has. Um, I I'd have to take a a look at the verage, but I think what it means from a practical perspective that you have the authority to delegate certain functions to the vice chair. Now, she could tell you no, >>

143you're in charge of agenda. >> Like, give her your email. >> Now, we got to read the emails. You're in charge. >> The power. >> Does anybody have any anything else? I mean, open forum questions, concerns. >> No, but can I just say and I know this may not matter because my chair my my our chairs are up for vote, but this was really beneficial. I mean, I listened to all of the when I first became a board member years ago, I listen I did all the MTSBA trainings and things. um this really gave me a better understanding of what as a trustee >> can and can't do >> what I can and can't do where um again that duty of care loyalty obedience that helped a lot and it just really would have trusted

144so I do think that this would have been beneficial to have right after I got the >> on the MTS online were helpful But something like this where I could ask questions oneonone and it's more personal that would have >> so I don't know you want to do this again a month if you use it >> but it was very zooming. >> Yeah. So yeah they could yeah they could watch that you could encourage them to watch that and >> um we do have um we have historically had a Zoom reporting targeted towards new trustees. >> Yeah. But I but it doesn't go over the up four or the >> I did I watched all that. I did and I I still like it. I don't know. And don't get me wrong, it's like I

145didn't learn anything about that. It was a good starting point. >> But I found this really helpful to sit with my board. >> Yeah. >> In my district. >> Also, sometimes I think you need something like this a year after >> because when you first get it's like drink from the hopes and you're like I don't know any of it. And then you're right a year later you can kind of go okay now I kind of understand what this >> every year after the election should be something like this where the you know explain the duties and the actual you're in charge of that new board member trying to get us in We did some of them here. >> I remember. >> But I Yeah. >> Can we do that? Can we get an MTSBA

146training here? The word because we got what? Shepherd, Huntley, Lockwood, Billings, Laurel. No. Do like a training like this where we could benefit from it by coming here. But if we host it because we do that. >> You guys, you guys can host a regional meeting. >> Yeah. It would would it run the same region as Masmo does? Like would you include that? Like because they've got the whole state split up. >> We have um our regions split up into 11 different regions, >> but for a regional training, we don't necessarily say you have to stick with >> this region. this region, but you could invite other districts within the vicinity and you guys host it. Sure. And then everyone shares in the cost. >> Okay. >> It would be as benefit as a small

147group like this. >> Well, you could do like an hour of her talking and do an hour breakouts >> to where your single board discusses how you want. >> Maybe you need more trades. No, >> I could facilitate something like that. >> Could the Would the Would that be something the board is interested in hosting a regional training at some point? It doesn't have to be like next. >> I think it's been I think it I mean >> I mean some would bene they were amazing. like even as new to the finance office, I sat in on them just to know myself. So >> I'd have to say that if you maintain the trustees that you currently have that have already been through this, I think a regional meeting would be beneficial. But every time

148you get new trustees, I think a one-on-one like this would >> also be really handy is a a video of some sort for people thinking about being on the school board. >> You know what I mean? To like understand because not even that, just to like understand because everybody's like, you know, be on the school board. just go do all these things and then realize >> you have less power as a >> trustee than you think it is. >> Yeah, >> we can't do that because we're a 501c3 and we can't get into meddling in elections. >> Yeah. No, I just mean like obviously some random YouTuber needs to make that. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I say that with the caveat that um and we can't do it. There is an article in the Montana

149Education Law Reporter. Um the essentials of being a trustee that you guys all have access to. That is a pretty good document just in terms of a Q&A on what it does mean. >> Where is that? It's in the if you go to our website on the quick links the MLR it's the it's either the 1000 article or the 1100 one of the two one of them >> something we share with the community. They also I was too like it be for help the community understand it's a real battle right now. It's the roles of each person in the school district too which is >> I mean it's like right now I think people think they can do a lot more and have more power than they actually do being on the board. And I

150mean like I thought I came in thinking, "Oh yeah, change stuff. This is going to be great." >> And then I realized there's seven people >> and you're one vote with one vote and you know >> we also have to think of the big picture >> and so like you have to get in a whole different way of thinking >> in like is it fiscally responsible? Is it community responsible? because it's, you know, are we going to spend the money now and not have it later for the school? And so that's kind of where like there's a big disconnect in wanting to be on the board and then being on the board. >> Yep. I would agree. And I think that some people that run for the board, like on single agenda items, they soon

151find out that there's a lot to being a trustee. >> I'd be happy to come back if you guys want me to come back. >> I'll leave that I'll leave that up to you though. >> That might happen. said not next week. >> What other trainings would be beneficial for us one- on-one like this that MTSBA could facilitate >> like this in a small group setting? Um, I think one of the things that that I do that Emily does, Andy does it too, is um, if you feel like you need an outside facilitator to update your strategic plan. I do that with boards all over this state and I think I'm I'm sure your plan is fantastic. Okay. But sometimes I think if you get an outside facilitator um it helps the this up and

152out visions >> because I have seen a lot of strategic plans that look more like operational plans like who's doing what what are you doing it as opposed to looking at it from a strategy perspective and I haven't seen your strat plan like I said I'm sure it's fantastic. The other thing that you guys might want to think about, I'll just put a plug in for it in June. Um, you probably have seen some promotions for it. We're having a full day training for new and veteran trustees if you come to Helen. And then because we're also celebrating our hundth year, we're going to do a reception. Um and then if you're in uh care about our advocacy and I hope that you would um our annual meeting is the following day so you can

153get informed that >> I do I think >> and there's no there's no charge. I mean you guys would have to get yourselves to help but we don't charge for this. >> Do it as a police. Mhm. >> Um it is >> you guys have >> many. >> It's scheduled for the 9th >> and the 10th. >> Yeah. June 9th 10th, Tuesday, Wednesday. If my calendar's correct, >> any other alibis? >> Thank you very much. This was helpful. Yes. You have any alibis? It was very high. >> There used to be barco. >> Well, thank you for everybody taking your time up. Uh, this training does go towards the Golden Gabble. >> Oh, yeah. >> It does. We all made >> I'll even give you an extra 15