BOE Regular recurrent meeting

001Good morning everyone. I'd like to welcome everyone to the regular meeting of Cas County Board of Education. At this time, I ask you for a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance. >> Thank you. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Board members, the first item of business will be uh approval of the minutes. You have a new set of minutes at your table for the simple reason that the minutes we took last time, the vote we took regarding the coaching assignments was incorrect. That has been removed. We'll come back to you as probably at the July 28th meeting. This is the corrected copy of minist coaching. Is there

002a motion to effect? Mr. Miller, Miss Knight makes a second. Any discussion? The motion is before you to approve the minutes of our last meeting. All in favor that raise your hand. Opposed? Motion's carried. Thank you very much. Approval of the agenda. Is there a motion that effect? Miss Smith makes a motion. M. Leard seconds. discussion. I have one I want to add one item which will be number six for the agenda. It would be discussion about the civic center. All right. Any other discussion with that addition? The motion before you is to approve the agenda with the addition of number six which would be the civic center. All in favor of that raise your hand. Opposed. Motion carried. Thank you very much. Announcements. Special recognitions. >> Well, good morning everybody. Hope everybody had a

003good weekend. Um, today we have the opportunity to recognize an individual who is near and dear to all the community here in Caswell County Schools. U Mr. Jerome Wilson is a true um champion for education for students. Um, we want I would call him the backup man because he's backed us up so many times over the years. Um, it's truly a pleasure to give people their flowers while they can still smell them. And we just would like to take a moment to uh recognize Mr. Jerome Wilson for his continued partnership, his continued dedication to the institution of education. Um, we need more educators with his spirit, his work ethic, and his morals, and our world will be a much greater place. So today, uh, we would like to take a moment to give you some

004flowers, um, as we recognize Jerome Wilson for his service, particularly this past school year as he stepped in to support NL Dildard, um, throughout the school year, and we are very appreciative of that. So, Mr. Wilson, uh, come to the podium there for a moment, please, sir. [Applause] Um, it's a tradition that started sometime before I got here that uh we like to present people with a certain token of appreciation. As they say in some places, we can't pay you for what you've done, but we do thank you for some. So, we have a slight token of appreciation for you. Um, sit back and relax. And if anybody want to know who charity is, it has your name on it. So, we don't have to worry about that. So, we're going to present to you

005>> on behalf and on the back of it >> it has your name on it. >> I got you. >> So if you say that's my seat. >> That's my seat. >> That's your seat. All right. So we like to get you with a picture and some things and if any want to share the comments um for Mr. West, this is the time opportunity. >> You can be quiet. No. Okay, Jerome and I go way, way back. If you see these numbers up here, he ain't quite this old, but uh Jerome loves to play softball. I love to play softball, but there comes a time when that ball comes to you so fast that you got to leave it alone. They even changed the rules. The pitching m used to be 46 feet, but they

006moved it back. Now they got fences up there that catches I mean the the pitchers wear mask and all that because what the reflexes aren't what they used to be. So Jerome back off, sit back and go back and watch the game. Don't don't play no more. >> This might be my last year. >> I got you. But I really enjoyed the uh what you've done for us. Uh it speaks volumes for you especially. Uh, a lot of times when they retire, you don't hear nothing from them no more. But we really want to appreciate what you've done for C County Schools and uh, enjoy your retirement and tell the Senator Lamar not to get in your chair. >> Any other board members comments? >> Well, I'm just say keep on playing ball. I know

007you have that spirit and you know, I know your work ethic and we appreciate what you do for the children of Caswell County. Okay. So I would say enjoy retirement but retirement is just a word and continue to do what you do and be blessed and thank you for all that you have done for us and we look forward to working with you again. >> Um I did know everything they said. I guess Mr. Mr. Wilson was my daughter's principal at some point in time they were in elementary school and also I guess I had opportunity to work with him down at South last year. So, um, and I guess knowing his family and that work ethics, he will not be retired. >> Exactly. >> And thanks for all you've done and I >> appreciate

008it. Appreciate it. I got to check on that girl that I left in Danville and because that one was my heart, you know. So, >> yeah. I just like to say thank you for all you do and everything you done for my family because he was my son's principal. I remember him when I actually remember when you came and first started teaching. I was a student back then. So, just want to thank you. Um, he always looked out for my son and I love your spirit and just enjoy yourself. Keep doing what you're doing. >> I'm doing I will. >> How great. You're going to be 70. Are you coming up on 70? Oh, wow. >> That's another year. If you live long enough, you'll see. >> Anyone else? Um, go ahead. I just like

009to say thank you. I've known Miss Wilson since Cobb School. Yeah. >> And I know since I've sat on the board, he's rescued us three times. Stunning Creek, then South, and then Dillard without hesitation just jumped in and helped us out. And we really appreciate looking out for the kids. >> Appreciate it. Appreciate it. >> And I'll say something on behalf of students. As a student in in high school, you were a math teacher >> and you encouraged and told me that I should I was in the wrong class. And without that advocacy, I wouldn't have been able to go to college because at the time the schedule wouldn't allow me to have the courses for that. So, um I am a product of your advocacy right before you today. And so that is um

010words can't describe what you did for me then and I know that you've done that for many students and that's just the true champion of education education that you are. So, as a student, I thank you. As a principal, I think as a superintendent, I'm gonna thank you. All appreciate you. >> I appreciate it. Appreciate it. >> Okay. Jerome, you want to have a few words before we take a picture? >> Well, what I want to say, I want to thank you guys for trusting me, you know, with kids in Kazwood County. And also, um, it's it's not about the glory, but it's about the kids. And that's what I always try to put forth, you know, what is best for the kids. And the kids that I talked about at my speech and I

011knew I was going to get emotional, but uh one of them came to me when she found out what the math score was when I was telling her about math, she hugged me. She was not pass. So that right there gets my gets my heart, you know. And uh then it was the other one I talking about the young man that wanted me to eat lunch with him. I did not know that he was close to his grandfather and his grandfather passed away. So I guess he saw me as that type. And after I found that out, I was so glad that I ate lunch with him several times. And like I said, you just don't know who you touch sometimes, you know. Are you going to save them all? Probably not. You know, but

012those that And I do remember like I I remember Lance Yeah. he shouldn't been in my class. So I I remember things like that, you know, and uh and it makes me good when kids come up to me and let me know what I've done for them. So I'm again I thank Casway Ken for giving me the opportunity to start my career here, you know, and so it's about it's my home and so when you guys called it's like me helping my hometown because I know how hard it is for us to get um people here to work based on economics you know and money and you know some people look at the money instead of the you know the surroundings the people but uh again thank you for giving me an opportunity to come

013back and work with the kids Yeah. >> All right. All right. Let's take a picture. >> Yeah. You sit >> and you did you bring your truck? Yes. All right. Ready? I'm sorry. [Music] Good. Thank you. [Applause] You need some help? >> You going to car it down? >> Okay. Go ahead and cancel. You got to go find. >> All right. Next item is public comments if you have any. All right. Thank you very much. All right. Reports. Uh what's >> Yes. Um dear board, you'll see that we have three reports today. Um the first report is pretty much for information purposes only. We have the Dillard Middle School expenditure report for athletics as well as we have the B senior high athletic expenditure report. Um the formats are different for the two builders is

014just simply expenditures where B answers is all talking about income in and income going out due to the comprehensive nature of um high school athletics. Um just want to note in the Bartley Yansy expenditure after expenditures with the rising cost of transportation with the rising cost of officials and the rising cost of pretty much everything. Um BY High School ran very lean um to the to the total money that's been allotted to us. So um we'll go through the dillet one first and then we'll go through the next one. So do it's broken down by um sport and and by month and here just the expenditure for um little middle school give you time to review. Okay, that's hole right there please. On the third page for dealer uh there's a clarification that should be

015noted. Uh the second figure that says $2,330 2024 basketball booking fee, that is actually not the booking fee. It's the booking fee as well as the amount paid to the officials because if you look throughout the high school has a different booking fee for each sport. They just combine the basketball with the payment of the officials. I want to make that because when I saw it, I said it didn't look right. So that's what that one is. Go ahead. >> Uh, so I would like to just highlight that in the BNC. Any questions regarding billing? Points of clarification need not seeing hearing none. uh for Bansancy. I just want to show that the expenditures if you turn to uh the the last page of the 242.5 all seasons athletic expenditures at YC the C County

016schools athletic supplement that is the money that we received from the county commission go to the school that total amount allocated to the school is $25,000. If you look at how much we spent, we spent $24,946.3. And so just want to know that there's great use of that taxpayer dollar, but you'll see all the answers is broken down by expenditures and then the second page is broken down by income. I had one comment on the first page uh where it says fall athletics. There's an expenditure for $1,125 to the Caswell emergency services. >> Do you know what that is? >> So when there is an o when we have u an ambulance there, >> okay, >> and we don't have an athletic trainer, we have to have >> we have to pay them, >> okay,

017to be there >> to be there, okay? And so there was a time last year where we did not have athletic planning available because we hadn't filled that position. So to be sure that we had safety protocols and things in place, we had the contract with Caswell emergency service and we're very appreciative for their service to us. But we have to pay that. >> All right. Second point I have is on the next page where it says soccer boys. I assume the uniforms were purchased prior to the season and absolutely didn't have >> So we have a rotation schedule for uniforms. So those uniforms so the team didn't make there wasn't enough young men to make the tank. Um but those uniforms were purchased because it was their year four new uniforms. Okay. So there

018are still new uniforms um for when that sport makes. All right. I have one more uh spring athletics. Uh this is baseball. It says security $210. >> Which page? >> It's the last page of uh well it's not numbered but it's spring >> spring and start with baseball. See baseball. >> Okay. >> Got it. >> I was not aware we had security for baseball or softball. >> There were certain baseball. There were certain games depending on who we played and what things have that we did >> have an SRO there. >> Um it wasn't at every game. Okay. But there was certain games particularly when we had three or multiple events happening at one time >> at one time because we have the softball on the outside we have the soccer. So just for the

019sake of safety >> it's better to have and not need than need and have. So that that will split a little bit amongst some of the >> Okay. Right. So that's why you see that there. >> All right. All right. That's all I had. Anybody else have any questions, comments? Smith, >> I didn't see basketball on the income sheet. Did I miss that or am I looking at it wrong? I saw every other >> you talking about on the next income. I saw the expenditure for it, but I didn't see the income. >> So I don't know who missed. >> Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, I think you're right. >> Yeah, we'll double check that. That may have been a cop area, but let me see. So, um, I didn't catch that as well, but we

020can get that to make sure. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> Go ahead. >> Just to be clear, Mr. Spe, so we were in the red with athletics, 32,000. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. I mean, I'm just saying that because that's, you know, that just shows what a need it is for us to support that locally, too. >> Just the nature of the way the fiscal year falls. We keep it afloat, you know. uh everybody knows how to do a checkbook that to keep things moving. So we have to the rising cost um comes from the participation in sports that do not generate revenue. >> Yeah. >> And so um track, wrestling um and some in soccer they do not they do not generate enough revenue to cover their fees. So we have to depend

021on um the monies received from the county the district um as well as any donations in their sort because this does not count monies that are raised through the alumni association. This doesn't have any that those things on there because they didn't go through our books. Okay. >> Go ahead. >> So it looked like I know in football we actually didn't make money this year either. I don't think it looks like we lost about 5,000. And for the buck cards, does that mean we didn't make any money off the buck cards if the cost was $1,260? >> So the buck card valley broke even last year. >> Okay. >> It was enough popularity with that and you would see um coming with the next fundraiser a different approach for car. >> Okay. Thank you. >>

022Okay. I had one question, Miss M. I guess Miss Smith, she worked with this too. Explain to me the concession profit sharing. >> So >> what does that mean? So there was a partnership with each sport and the concession stand. So if a sports we split the concessions around the sports who participate to cover the concession stand. So if you walk with me back in history, we had a we had a hard time staffing or having volunteers to work for the concession stand. >> And so to get more skin in the game, if a sport had representation in the concession stand, they got a part of the pot. Okay. >> And so depending on So there was a very I think it was a committee of um I think Mrs. Smith was on the initial

023committee for that. Um our athletic director um >> Terry Burr and might have been a few other coaches there that discussed that because one question was coming where was the revenues for concession going? How were they used? So this allowed sports to um really be transparent so that we can make sure and it it really brought brought into a sense of community that this just wasn't one sport. So parents volunteered, coaches volunteered and it really alleviated the staffing problem of staffing the concession stands because with smaller staffs competition that stuff. So that that's what they so every year. So it depends on how they do. That's it's split up amongst them after the bills names are >> paid. Got >> that's one way to do it. Very popular. The only way to do it. Yeah.

024>> It's very popular. I think we try to change it now. It'll be some disagreement. >> Okay. >> Miss Beckler >> on cheering. We had a parent. Can you explain to me exactly what they with all that included? Because we had a parent that said they had to pay for their own you know. So what is that right there? That's $6,375.30. >> Are you are you >> cheerleading? >> You are your income or your expenditure? >> Expens. >> All right. As an income. So with cheerleading um uniforms um have to fit the students and the the time frame of where you can buy a uniform that is universal um is much limited. So there are some parts of the uniforms that you can't use over because of the nature of the parts of the bar

025that they cover. And so they have bags, they have cheerleading has a lot of things. So cheerleading has been pretty self-sufficient while they raise a lot of their money as well as their families contribute to it. So with the $6,000 of expenditure, that was probably the bulk cost of purchasing our uniforms. >> So you're you're saying every year they pretty much have to get uniforms. >> Every year we have to get a tie to support the uniform because you it's over two seasons. So it's fall and winter. So some of the things you wear when you're outside in the cold isn't appropriate to wear inside in the heated gym. And so, um, if you would, I can request to get an itemized list of little things like um, so they can be seen. But, um,

026the nature of cheerleading is constantly changing because we don't make all students the same. >> Well, I understand that, but the parent said she had to spend $350 on the uniform and we see we spent $6,000 on. >> So, the so so the money you see spent um, is the expenditure because the cheerleading invoice through the school. So it's not it's not that the the the cheerleaders are collecting they got to kid money somewhere else. Every dollar goes through the the piece and so part of their cheerleading contract talks about the fees and those things that they have some kind of camps or some things of sort but we can get information for you. As a parent, I can say my daughter when she cheered, the school did pay for some things and then as

027a parent, there were certain things that the parent had to buy and I guess it was back but almost 10 years ago. inflation. But I can say well between both at least time the last one I probably spent like $200 $200 out of pocket but it wasn't really for the uniform for the other things they needed >> like the the turtlenecks and whatever they were outside and the wind suits and that kind of thing not the uniform itself. >> Anybody else? One comment I like to make. It's a known fact that football and basketball are your top two generating sports for income. If you look at ours, if you don't get the people in the seats, you're not going to make a lot of money. Uh it's not like it used to be, especially with

028high school kids now. They don't come to the games like they used to. But give you an example of one. Scotland County, North Carolina has one high school. Richmond County has one high school. They play each other every year in football. When they play each other in football, they have 10,000 people. You multiply 10,000 times eight. And that's going to carry them for the whole year basically. Uh, and that's you have to have those two sports to give you those funds. And if we don't get that, I've been to games at the high school in basketball where they barely make them enough money to pay the referees. >> Correct. >> And that's that's tough. So where does that other money come from? That's why we had the deficit. But you keep plugging in there. But

029if you look at it, transportation officials, uniform, that's your money right there. So you try to work that. >> And if I could add, chair, um, as you know that the the conference will be changing this year, right? >> And so therefore, we have an opportunity where we're not traveling as far um to Rockingham County. And so that should we're not sure that will u positively impact us as far as we have to travel for transportation as well as um since the games are closer people are more apt to come to attend versus driving so far. Um also um we need to explore the option of um debit card at the concession stand because we are having a difficult time because you know kids don't carry cash as much as they used to and so

030that is something that we have started to explore. We started that with the uh ticket sales with Go Fame and that worked well. But you got to realize at some point in time we were selling tickets under the recommended price that the that the conference stated. So there wouldn't be such a financial burden on our families. So I want the community to know and do that that when we think about a family of four, family of five at $10 a piece that gets quite expensive over time. Um and then we're doing some things. But we are still exploring the season tickets, the passes, um, and ways for some of our seniors to come to the game with discounts. So, we look at the whole package. Um, yes, we need to be in the business of

031making more money, but we also want to ensure that we have our students and our families have a great experience um to build the culture that we have in C County schools to support Catholic county schools because it with um it just isn't how it one would picture when they attended school. Um, so just keep that in mind when people come to you or your decision come to you about those things that we're in a changing world and this changing world is more expensive and so therefore we're trying to minimize the um the financial impact we can because gas is high um and things are far away. So if you it goes somewhere, you got to get there. And so I do look forward as we're going back playing leads with that say that is

032a game that draws a crowd. >> And so we're looking forward to the new conference in many ways and also looking forward to um still being good stewards of the expenditures. Just want to add that the high school's done a phenomenal job with making it work with the funds they have because the some of our track and spring sports do not turn a profit because we can't hold those tracks and our track teams are getting large. And so with those sports, we may have to look at some other um options, but just want to make sure that we're transparent with our expenditures and income. >> Okay. >> Yes. Um I had a person that shared this. This is the alumni. So y'all make sure this is you mark it. I don't know. It's from the

033alumni. Okay. Softball and volleyball. She heard me talking about it at our last meeting and so she wanted to share what her um finance was. >> She does both of them. >> So this is softball and volleyball. >> That's softball and volleyball. Yes sir. >> Mine say softball on both sides. Somebody's got a I got I got >> which I thank you the coaches for having them to do that for >> that just gives us an idea of like what actually I alumni have to spend to >> okay >> because I know I did ask for that report too >> all right >> they're the only ones >> for the total cost for activity bus use that is including the driver >> yes >> in that figure >> yes >> you know I know we've

034been back and forth on this but somewhere along the A somewhere along the way we started paying coaches to drive the bus and it used to not be like that. If you coach you encouraged get your CDL and drive your team but it it really has shot the cost up when we're paying a coach who is coaching a sport to also click the button and get paid to drive to that sport. Um you know that's something we ought to think about because it drives that cost pretty high. Well, the criteria to get CDL license um is not an easy one. And um you have some staff that are comfortable with that. We've got some staff that had that and are aging and for whatever reasons they may no longer qualify to keep their CDL. Our

035other issues we have football doesn't cost us as much and better. really the the tennis, the golf, the the sports that do not create revenue and the coaches for those sports don't have a CDL and we've we have had our staff attend the training to become part of that. Um it is very difficult um to go through because that CDL license process is not a quick process. totally understand um the concern with finances and those pieces, but we also have had to pull staff with CDLs within the building to drive the bus. That's and they're not coaches because we have to get the kids there safely. Um so we can continue looking to do it and kind of come back with um suggestion because we we try because we've had some people that CDL's have

036been lost or changed status for the CDL. But you know, when you have four and five, if three and four events happen at the same time, it's difficult for that one driver to get everybody to places. >> Understand? I guess what I'm saying is if I'm the coach for football and I have my CD, I don't think that coach should be paid to drive and coach. They already got their CD. >> Understand? >> But we are Miss Smith. Wait a minute. >> Yes, sir. >> I I mean I I don't agree. I think they should get paid to drive because I think it's very stressful, you know, driving that bus with those kids on it and they should be, you know, they should be paid to do it because they're not able just to focus

037on coaching. That's the thing. If you can drive, you're made to drive and then you have to get the kids there safely and you don't have as clear of a mind to focus on your game plan and playing the game. So, I think they should be compensated for it, but I mean I know money's tight, but that's just my thoughts. >> Okay, Miss Be, you have issue on that >> on that issue? >> Yes. >> Okay, go ahead. >> We had the same conversation last year because it was high school was getting paid, the coaches were getting paid to drive, but Dillard was not. Do y'all remember all that? >> It was a >> Well, that's what the discussion was last year, right? Because if you going to do it at one school, we need

038to do it at both schools because a coach is a coach regardless what school we're at. And that was the discussion we had last year because it was something about a button they hit or something that got them paid. We said if we're going to do it for one, we need to do it for both. >> So just to be clear, the funds that are being paid to bus drivers are school funds. Um it's funded school generated. um transportation and finance look at what the right is and they build the school like we build security those kind of pieces and yes it it's a necessary expense I can tell you for sure builder would not be able to um sustain that out of that checking account because they don't make the funds with the games

039that they have um they would not be able to sustain that the high school um this year was the year to go into the red with um and so with the and so with the compensation for the bus drivers. The the way it was agreed upon and we worked it out last year, we only drove into the bus. If it took 30 minutes to get there, they don't pay for an hour drive. They were not on the clock while they were doing the coal sport. It was to transport them back. And so if that's something that we need to look into, um, we can, but I just want to be clear that, um, you've got and if you got a driver that's not a coach, that driver had to be on the is on the

040clock the entire time because they're there. That's what cost us more than that is the driver that. So I understand the pieces. If we're paying the coach to supplement, we shouldn't pay them for we should not pay them for that. But if the if and so the coach says, "Well, then I won't drive. I won't do my CDL. It's going to cost us more because now we got to find a driver that we don't have. So, you have to understand that there has to be some balance in what are we trying to accomplish and what's best for kids. And so, we want to be sure we get the kids there safely. Um, and do understand all points that have been brought to attention. >> Can we get a breakdown of what coaches got paid and

041which did not? Because I don't think all the coaches got paid to drive that bus, too. >> If we're going to do it, we need to do it fairly. >> I agree. And there are some coaches who don't want to drive >> and there are some coaches who um don't mind those pieces but we can get that information. >> You know when I coached Mr. B was the principal and he said if you don't have your CDL your team pays for the bus driver. So you know we can look at it all kinds of ways but if you're going to pay one coach you need to pay them all. >> Okay board members what I would suggest that we gather the information Mr. Stokes for the July 28th meeting and come to some consensus. >>

042Yes. uh because the teams have to get there one way or the other and uh let's make a informed decision when we come back. >> All right. >> Anything else on after that is expenses. I'm sorry. >> Your income sheet. Did any of you get the one that has basketball called basketball? I didn't have >> No, that's what we were That's what we That's what we were missing. >> So all of you missing that she Okay. Anything else on that? All right. Let's go next. M report. >> Yes. It was requested at the last meeting that we have a civic center report. As you can see the um deposits far total revenue and total expense expenditures. I will do my best to continue to share this information. I know that Mrs. uh CFO is is

043not with us today. Um but if you will see total revenue for 2425 was $46,562.50. um total expense was 72,437,30. If you do that math quickly, it doesn't add up. That's going to be a um difference in revenue versus expense. And so this is information requested and I leave for discussion for the board. >> Okay, I'll start you off. If you look at these numbers, some of them look completely out of kilter. Give you an example. A long time ago, the state used to pay our utilities. That's a big difference there. Not just the city, I'm talking about the whole school system. But when you start talking about electric, water, and sewage, it that's a big debt. It has to come from local funds. The other part I I question, I think somebody mentioned this

044last time about civic seller supplies and uh the budget was 5,000, but we spent $11,431. And I know you have to have supplies in there, but for those new on the board, when I was county commissioner, the school system has always tried to give it over to the county. County has always rejected it. So, it always falls back. When Mr. Folks was here and uh we were doing the student shows, the adult shows, more revenue was coming in. We don't have that now. And I think seriously that's something that we need to try to take a look at uh to get some of those things back to give us additional revenue. But Mr. Stokes and board members, what I would like to see rather than a report like this, I would like to see a

045monthly report rather than an annual report. Uh, same thing. Just break it down monthly and we can get a much better picture of what we're doing because some months you're going to be in the civic center, some months you're not. I think the springtime is probably the most time we going to get the most revenue. Uh, groups like outside groups, but uh, a lot of y'all not old enough to remember this, but uh, you remember the group al the group Alabama? They played in casual kind of civics some when it first opened up. Tickets was like $12. You don't have that now. And we don't have that many seats there. I think we got close to a thousand seats. But we need to start look take a strong look at this because this is getting

046to be a liability right here. It's a necessary evil. But it is killing us though. So uh I was Is anybody in disagreement to get a monthly report? I think it'll be >> and I also add that although this is the revenue this doesn't talk about all the ways the building is used by the school system >> right >> so when the building being used throughout the year for graduations um dance concerts school sponsored events convocation those type things when we're in the building we're consuming water supplies those pieces um it is not the newest of buildings so therefore it's not as as efficient as it could which with LED lightning and so so it required to do some things. I do understand that the electric um water sewer and garbage services those prices are

047not much we can control. But we do shut it down during the when we're not we're not in use but it costs to run the city center and has and has in a lot lot of time frames. >> All right. >> Five minutes back. >> What part of that report can we find out what activities how it is being used monthly? >> Sure. >> Even when using the schools when the schools are using it as well. Absolutely. That would help us. >> All right. Anything else? All right. uh budget update. Yes. So, as you know, um our local current expense of capital budget update is um we have although the board, the county commissioners, we're grateful for our partnership with county commissioners, we're grateful for what they have allocated to us. We had not received

048the official letter saying A, B, C, and D. Um, I know someone say, "Well, we can see the minutes, how many pieces, but I I'm type of I like to have my money or something in hand before I start spending." So, we have put as much rush on that as we can. Um, hopefully have rece received what the allocation is, and some of the stipulations are, but so this memo is from Brook Underwood. The memo for the board of education on the local capital outlay budget. We currently have not received the official letter of funding from the county. This has been requested. We also still working in month 13 of the fiscal year 2025. Um according to the period there is an attachment for local funds spent as of June 30th 2025. So in this

049attachment you will see a line by line as of June 30th. Um understand that when we reconcile there there are expenses that don't post until a little later. And from that um we have done the local current expense draft uh which will be reviewed from the county with proposed expenditures. This includes a local supplement that will also come to the board when the budget is presented. The state has also not released retirement and health insurance rates for the 2526 fiscal year. And this impacts us for the locally funded employees. So, we can do a budget, but if we don't know how much um locally funded employees are going to cost us, it may be work in vain because we don't know how much those employee costs are going to cost us. So, we'll make sure

050we have all the information to make an informed decision. As stated earlier, the capital draft budget revenues are what should be received from the county. The proposed expenditures is strictly where we are on we will be operating repairs and replacement. The county did set aside 888,000 for purch of Halac roof and other major needs for the district. Um an activity bus is not included in the proposed expenditure due to it would cut down on the operational repairs cost because of replacement of $243,000. So if you look at the budget summary current expense fund um we just provided information kind of let you see where some of the increases decreases are and then attached to that is a line by line as of June 30th of how much we've spent in the number um okay Mr.

051Just I have one question to start off. Do you know uh the procedure for the county? Do they uh send us money at the same time each month? >> They have not. >> Okay. >> Um I've worked with um county managers try to see if we can get a window of time. Not nor do they send it the same amount of time. They do not send it the same way. >> Okay. >> Sometimes it's sent electronically. Um ACS transfer is the correct terminology. Sometime it's a paper check. >> Okay. both impact how we operate. If it's a paper check, it slows down the process. If it's a so we're trying to get some consistency, okay, >> um from uh from from that from that entity to get the information to us. So >> I understand

052that I'm in transition. I understand they're in transition, but we want to make sure that the dollars we receive are the dollars that's supposed to be allocated so we can plan for it appropriately. And so, um, we're not in a much different place than we were last year this time because I do not believe budget was adopted until August meeting. And so, our goal is hopefully to have it to you by the July 28th. >> Okay. Which will be ahead of schedule compared to last fiscal year. >> All right. Any other questions, comments? All right. Thank you very much. All right. Uh, you have any unfinished business? >> No, this time. >> All right. Consent agenda. Uh, One, two, three, four. We have five items there. Is there a motion to accept the consent agenda?

053Miss Blackwell makes a motion. Is there a second, Miss Begler? Any discussion? If not, the motion before you is to accept the consent agenda. Move the prop. Second. No discussion. All in favor that motion. Raise your hand. Oppose. Motion's carried. Thank you. All right. Or can report. >> All righty. So, Pas County Schools currently has um contracts and things in place for um the safety of our buildings in regards to um um what's the protection against bugs, rodents, and that sort. The current contract that we have does a lot with traps and things, but we do need more with our Asian buildings. Um and so this orphan contract outlines some additional services for our schools as the um bugs and things are multiplying. And so as you have heard constantly more time we've had some

054issues with ants at all of our sites. Um and so this will definitely help us address that issue because we the current the previous contracting place did not give us the supports to do so. And so, um, Allan is here for questions if they be and but, um, hope you've had opportunity to review the packet. This is, uh, new addition, um, that will give us some calls. But if we do not act upon this, we're going to be in a much more um uncomfortable situation regarding bugs and critters in our buildings, and that will um, not be comfortable. So, I just need Allan can come on up if if necessary for questions. Um, so I'll talk to you, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. You have any comments you need to make as >> I just wanted

055to clarify. We do already have a contract with Orin that we're running. They're one of the few um exterminators um that can do the exterminator with kids in the building. Um the current contract that we're running with them is just bait traps. We're not doing any spraying in any of the buildings with kids. Okay. If you notice with the state, we've had something that went out a month or so ago that any spraying done in or outside of a building, we must let u all staff know, including parents, within 24 to 72 hours of anything being done in a school. Um, so that's the reason the current contract that we have is only baits and traps. Um, this contract that we're looking to go do is during the summertime when nobody's at school. We're going

056to spray around the inside and the outside of all the buildings and before anybody gets into school and we we'll be out of the 2472 frame for us spraying in and outside buildings. All right. It's been nice. And um what about our fields? Last year on the football and softball field, we got a lot of problems with hands fighting. >> So currently custom cuts went to the pesticide control and Rockingham County. They have the regional and we have got them with their license to do the fire ants. >> Okay. Um, however, they can't treat anything inside of a building. It's just in shrubs and playgrounds and stuff like that. So, we are treating them. The problem with the fire ants is you can't spray anything on top of the ground or put anything on top

057of the ground because of kids or whatever. So, we're drilling holes and the queen is actually approximately three foot down in the ground. >> So, we've got to get the bait to the queen in order to get rid of the hide. If not, when a lawnmower runs over, ants get on the lawnmower and just spreads and multiplies. So, it's a very hard situation to eliminate them, but we're working on it and we've had great success so far in the last year. So, making headway back. >> So, this is a monthly $1,000 what you're asking for. Would it be monthly? So, this is a one-time spray inside outside of the buildings. Um, however, when they're back with the uh other contract, they will be looking and inspecting to see if anything is um getting worse. And

058then we may have to do something um holiday weekend or something later on to seeing if we can calm the situation down. >> So we are asking just not for it to be $1,000 a month but just for that one time. >> Right. I think they've got every school labeled >> in there separate. >> Okay. >> If you can see them. So they went around and priced every school separate because of the size and square footage of the buildings. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Anything else added? >> No sir. Appreciate it. Thank you. >> We recommend approval of the open contract. >> All right. Is there a motion to that effect? Miss back is better than second. Any further discussion? The motion is to approve the a contract. All in favor of that raise

059your hand. Opposed. votes. Thank you. >> Thank you everyone. >> Number three, Ted Buck. Yes. So, as you know, um as long as we have schools and we have buses and students have to get to school. And so, one of the challenges C County Schools has had is running a more efficient um transportation system. And so I have um been very proud of some of the work that our transportation department has looked to think outside the box in regards to what tiered proposing a tiered route. The reason I wanted to bring this to the board is we use the word tiered a lot last year and so we're using tiered again this year and that definition has changed. So, I don't want people to think that when we talk about tiered busing, we're talking about

060what we did last year where there were a lot of students who were at school um a lot of hours after um and parents calling us. So, this helps us with the current school times to address the challenges we have as well as work more. So, I have our transportation department and we also even have a presentation to kind of show you to inform our board as well as our community the why behind that. We've also shipped in someone from Sturks County that can give us some um updates because they we're modeling after them because they're geographically their county is the same size and they have some the same challenges. So if uh my director transportation others come on up uh we'll begin the presentation for that. But I just want to know in your

061packets board members you have the proposal and you have a copy of the PowerPoint. Um, but I just want to understand that we will not sit here and read the proposal to you because you have the proposal and our power one is a presentation to support the tier routing transportation proposal. Over you, Mr. Bernard. >> Thank you. Uh, good morning board. >> We're here today to uh from the C County Transportation Department to present the proposal for tiered routing stag staggered school starts. This initiative is designed to address the significant operational challenges of that we are facing in transportation and to improve our experience for the students and for the staff. Next slide. Our goal with this presentation is clear is to improve the transportation efficiency and enhance student outcomes. The strategy we are proposing

062is to implement and support a tiered routing system which will require stagger school times. Our core f focus is throughout this entire discussion will be on achieving service reliability, generating cost savings and significantly boosting student welfare. Currently in Caswell County schools is encountering a major operational challenge particularly concerning the rule routing efficiency and ongoing driver shortages. Many of our students are getting on the buses before 5:30 or at right at 5:30 in the morning. Our drivers are coming in a lot earlier than that to start their routes. This model is both unsustainable and is detrimental to everyone that's involved. So what exactly is tiered routing? In essence, it means that one bus will serve multiple schools but in a different timebased tier. In Casual County model, this would involve two main tiers. Tier one would

063be for elementary school and tier two would be a combined middle and high school routes. This approach is critical because it requires staggered start times for our schools. The current system where all the schools begin instruction roughly at the same time forces our buses on routes concurrently placing immense pressure on our limited st uh transportation staff. The tiered model allows a single driver to complete multiple routes in a staggered time block. It directly reduces early pickup times, improving route coverage and maximizes the our existing resources. Next slide. Let me explain how this system will function in practice. Tier one buses will first pick up elementary students. After dropping them off, the same driver will then go out and pick up the their second tier, middle and high school. All routes will be optimized for time

064and geography to ensure that the maximum efficiency is attained. This means that each driver will perform two distinct runs, one for each chair, which enables more efficient deployment of our drivers and ensures reliable transportation without needing to uh increase our personnel andor buses. Next slide. The need for tier routing in Castle County Schools is critical. This model is not possible if all school start times are the same. Without staggered times, we face significant issues. We need more buses and drivers, which is a severe problem given that over the last several years, the district has lost several drivers to retirement. The higher transportation costs due to inefficient route scheduling and extended route durations as well as increased delays in route uh conflicts. students in remote areas such as Samora, Pelum, High Towers, they endure extremely long

065uh bus rides, some even an hour and a half per day or per ride, per morning, and an hour and a half in the afternoon. The drivers face burnout because there's not enough time for them to recuperate between having to do it again five days a week. Next slide. Adopting the tier routing offers a wide range of key benefits for the district. It ensures efficient use of our buses and staff leading to improved operational efficiency. We anticipate greater reliability of our transportation services. Provides predictable pickup and drop off times. The system also promotes equitable access for all students, especially those in the rural and remote areas. Additionally, it will help the school reduce traffic in the congested areas at the school site in the mornings and in the afternoons. Next slide. One of the core

066advantages of this model is to maximize the use of our existing resources. Buses will now complete two runs each day, optimizing their operational time. This leads directly to lower f fuel costs, maintenance costs, and equipment costs. By reducing the bus aisle time, overlapping in routes and unnecessary mileage, ensuring more precise route scheduling. Critically, tiered routing mitigates driver shortages by allowing fewer drivers to cover the same geographic area. It also becomes both more perspective for perspective drivers and supports the long-term retention of our current drivers. This represents a neutral a costneutral solution that is effectively leverages our current equipment and our personnel. Next slide. This system will lead to more reliable and consistent transportation for our students and their families. We expect better route planning and fewer delays as the staggered schedule provides greater flexibility in

067managing routes. This will result in a predictable pickup and drop off time where essential daily planning can be done. The enhanced predictability also facilitates easier coordination with families and staff, reducing stress and improving overall satisfaction. While some of the fleet will be operating on a tiered route, other buses will remain as they are right now on dedicated fixed routes. This will ensure the stability and meet specific logistical needs maintaining our overall service reliability. Next slide. Tiered routing significantly enhances both the equity and safety within the transportation system. It ensures rural and remote students who currently endure excessively long bus rides and it provides them with more reasonable commute times by staggered school schedules. It also reduces congestion at the school site during the peak, arrival and departure, creating a safer uh loading zone and unloading

068zone which is a benefit for the entire school district. Next slide. A major benefit of this model is it is it strong support for student health and learning. The tier system aligns with the age appropriate sleep cycles. Elementary students are typically more alert in the early hours, making early start times more suitable for them. In contrast, teens greatly benefit from later start times, which aligns with their natural sleep cycles and rhythms. Research links sleep deprivation to poor concentration, reduced test scores, increased anxiety, and higher absenteeism. By shifting morning pickup times later, the route should begin no earlier than 6:00 am. We reduce these risk, allowing students more time to eat a healthy breakfast, complete their assignments, and mentally prepare for school. This approach proves attend improves attendance, mood stability, and learning outcomes and is supported

069by organizations such as the American Academic Academy of Pediatrics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the American Medical Association. The positive impact of later start times for our middle and high school students is well supported in research as well. For instance, the study was has shown that some students showed a 4.5% grade increase for the with the later start times. The CDC reports that better attendance and fewer tardies in schools that implement a later start time. Furthermore, numerous youth studies consistently indicate lower stress levels and improve mood among students who achieve 8 to 10 hours of sleep. These findings underscore the direct link between sufficient sleep, overall well-being, and enhanced academic performance. Next slide. Tiered routing is the key to enabling developmentally appropriate scheduling for our students. It respects the early natural wakeup

070cycle for elementary, allowing them to start their day effectively. simultaneously provides the middle and high school students with a later start time that are proven to prove their memory, intention, and behavior. This optimal scheduling, which accommodates the unique biological rhythms of different age groups, is only possible through the tiered routing system and allow that allows for staggered school start times. In conclusion, the adoption of the tiered routing is a strategic and vital investment for Castle County Schools. This model fundamentally supports the operational efficiency and fosters student growth by optimizing resources and improving learning environment for every student. It actively promotes the equity and ex and access to transportation significantly enhances the students health and ultimately improves the academic performance. It is critical to reiterate that stagger school start times are absolutely essential for the success

071with this program. This proposal offers practical, cost-effective solutions for our current routing and staffing challenges. Ensuring the transportation network is sustainable, resilient, and serves in the best interest for both of our students and our staff. Next slide. Here with us today is uh Dr. Matt Tedar from Stokes County Schools. He's transportation director with Stokes County Schools. He is here to help answer questions pertaining to tier routing. Stokes County adopted tier routing and stagger school start times approximately four years ago and has been working for them since. He can part of your handouts that we handed out this morning show the um the cost and how it benefits the cost where there's less local money coming to transportation and more state funding picking up transportation funding. Um, at this time this concludes the presentation. We're open

072for any questions that you may have and we appreciate your time and your consideration for this very important. >> So before the board asks question, thank you guys for being attentive during the presentation. Uh, thank you uh, director bdon for your presentation. Very well written. U, the reason we chose to look at Stokes County is Sto County is geographically um, the size of Caswell. um not as it's a larger school system than us, but not much less large school system than us, but it has some of the same challenges. Um we've been challenging as staff to find costefficient ways to help us run efficiently. And so there's no need building a mousetrap if someone already has it. So we wanted to go ahead and look at that mousetrap for those pieces. But anyway, that uh

073this administration and folk can help save money and do what's best for students, that's what we're going to do. So I turn it over to chair for good. >> Thank you sir for coming down. Happy to be here. Couple questions. One, our system is elementary rides, buses, then middle and high school. Is that the same for you? >> Yes. >> Okay. Now, uh, >> well, it is now. >> Okay. >> Mr. Burden, I want you to help me with him with this question here. Let's say that Mr. Stokes lives on Hudson Road. He's in elementary school. And Miss Blackwell lives on Hudson Road. She goes to BC High School. Explain that to me timewise how that's going to benefit us. You follow what I'm saying? >> It's okay. It's basically the same thing we're doing

074right now. There's an elementary bus that goes out there. >> I know that. But in in terms of tier, what time is he going to be picked up? What time is Miss Blackwell going to be picked up? >> So, let me clarify. >> Great. our tiered busing route. This doesn't mean all buses are tiered. We're going to have some buses that still go out. True. Let's take one that's going to be tier. Let's take that scenario. >> So, I think it'd be best to describe the area that's more tier. Okay. So, that you have a better understanding than picking a random little test. >> Well, you pick one that >> Well, I I'll use your your example. All right. If the elementary school time, bell time is moved back to, for example, um 7:45, >>

075okay, >> that that child, that elementary child would not be on the bus before 6:00 a.m., >> okay? >> They basically the the elementary student and the high school student would ride the same bus, but at different times. >> Okay? The bus would pick up the elementary school or the elementary student at uh we'll say lack better thing five minutes to 8 or uh I'm sorry five minute or six o'clock. We'll go six o'clock. Drops them off at the elementary at 20 minutes after 7. >> Okay. >> Soon as the bus unloads, the bus goes back out to pick up. The high school student doesn't have to be at the high school until 8:45. >> Okay. So they would be at the stu at the student stop at 8 o'clock or 7 o'clock and then

076be get to by and drop the BY student off at 20 minutes after Okay. >> Um 7 so that they're no 8:00 bell time. So that or yeah 20 minutes after 8 because of 8:45 bell time. >> Okay. >> The goal is to get the buses can drop off 20 minutes prior to the bell time at most of the schools. Okay. >> So, the goal is to have every bus at every school 20 minutes before bell time. >> Okay. >> Not at bell time, but the 20 minutes prior. >> Uh and that's how we've readopted re we've changed our routing to do that. We were not routing that way. >> Okay. >> In previous years, um it started a little bit last year when we found out that we weren't doing it the correct way,

077but that's effectively how it would work. the elementary ch child will be on the bus first and then roughly an hour and a half later that the high school child will be on that same on that same bus again dorm and then in the afternoon it's flip-flopped. >> Okay, >> makes sense. >> So Mr. Bine given that our start times elementary have already been established u we have made a tier schedule around those dark times. We have made some tier. Yes, we have some tiered routing for this coming school year that will be done in the correct order. Um, LA the difference between this year and last year, we didn't do it in the correct order. >> Um, so we're going to do it the correct order this year, but we can't do as many

078tiers effectively because we've only got a 15-minute window. So, it makes for a very hard we're going to have to partner with schools to say, "Hey, we're going to have a bus there an hour before you well 30 minutes before they can actually drop off. We're going to need help with staffing so that we can slide these kids over and get this bus back out. The goal is still to get everybody to school on time. We just need more time and we don't have the drivers." I have been to three job fairs and I don't know what they call the what was the thing at the civic center his last name. >> The community talent. >> Yes. And there wasn't a lot of um turnout. We'll say we'll just leave it at that. Um I

079do have potentially six drivers going to tomorrow's class, but as Mr. Stokes rated earlier, they can go to tomorrow's class. they can they pass the test on Thursday and it's going to be September October before we can get them on on board and that's if all of them pass and they all stick to it and that the likelihood of that happening is is zero to zero. >> I I have a good feeling about two of them so I'll put it that way. >> All right, other questions. Miss Begley, >> um you got some elementary bus drivers don't want to drive for high school and middle How you going to handle that? >> We hand it on a case by case basis. Um >> we we have Thank you. >> We have actually already addressed that

080with some of our um bus drivers because for example, we've got an elementary school that has too many buses and they're losing two routes to for us to make our efficiency scores with that. I don't want to lose those two drivers. So, they were given options and as of right now, we're okay that the drivers are going to try and we're we're hopeful that our students will >> try with us. >> Okay. Miss Smith. >> So, I just want to be clear, you know, if we get somebody reach out reaches out to us for the upcoming school year. So you're saying for 2025 2026 the start times would stay the same. It's just that the kids may be there 30 minutes earlier than the actual start time. >> Yes. >> And then you're asking us

081to look at the 2026 2027 school year the start start times to be further apart so that this can work more efficiently. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Back to you. >> My question is for Mr. Stokes. What time does PCC take in? >> PCC follows a schedule of brought in high school. So we tell PCC what time they take. When I first became principal brought bought in PCC was telling us and since they are funded primarily through college career promise I met with the CC president. So CC PCC's bail schedule they ask us for our bail schedule um in the spring. So they make their so we start the instruction day at 8:00 they start their 8:00. If we were to push ours to speak hypothetical push hours at 9, they will push theirs now.

082Now we cannot tell them they can't start earlier but they do start before we start school because the people have to be tired of schedule but the casual county campus mimics the bene high school schedule the PCC for for access for transportation. >> Okay. So the with the bus drivers if they will that give them more time which they would be end up so the other thing to talk about is that they get to make more money uh and that's a plus I would think. >> So I wanted to at least say that if you're looking at it from another perspective that and the bus driver gets familiar with the whole family because you'll have the elementary child and the high school child or middle child. >> Correct. So, and they would be able to

083make more money in that situation. >> Yes. If I may add, >> um, that answers your question. We had a similar problem. I don't drive elementary. I don't drive middle. They get put into benefits. Um, they get health insurance, get more money. That people's preferences change when they know that it's a sustainable. >> And I I do not say that to be funny. I mean, it it it made a big difference for our people. the high school bus. I wouldn't do it. >> Well, it >> different different locations and different people. I understand. But we lost nobody >> because of I don't want to drive this this, you know. >> And we went from less than 15% of our people in benefits before we tiered to now the only people who are not in benefits

084are the ones that have to specifically make routes because they're retired and they have to stay under 30 hours. And so we do that on a case-by case basis. Um it it's been a wild success for us. Our growth in all of our schools has went up. Every school met growth. >> Wonderful. >> It so it it has every aspect of the positivity. The reason that I push it so hard is the finance that you will see a drastic decrease in what you'll pay locally. Um and I've given it did the numbers for Mr. Berdine to to give to you of if you cut this many buses, this is what it'll do. If you cut this many, this is what it'll do. Um, you know, not to insult your intelligence, but the way the transportation

085funding works is you're given a formula from DPI that this is how efficient you are, 80%, 90%. Whatever your budget is, if it's a million dollars, if you're 90% efficient, you pay $100,000 of it out of local. If you can get that number to a 100, they have zero. So, you want to be as efficient as you can while still keeping customer service without putting kids on bus at 4 a.m. I mean, every county could be 100%, but they'll have kids on the bus at 3:00 a.m. You don't want to do that. So, you have to find the balance with the numbers I in for your district quickly. It's very doable for you to be able to do it. >> Okay. Any other question? Yes. >> So, John, looking at um the report Miss Wallace

086did, tell me how this shuttle would work. >> The shuttle it talks about dropping the kids off in the morning at Dillard and them being >> shut. That's for this year, >> right? >> Okay. That because we're going to pick up the middle and high school first. They'll get to the middle school. they can drop off at the middle school at 20 after the uh 7:00. We're going to ask the tier drivers to be there by 7:00. They're going to drop off their middle school kids to go inside and sit down in the cafeteria. We're hoping once we get with the middle school. The high school kids we're going to take and put onto a different bus and shut the next bus that comes in that's not a tier bus that's going to go over

087to BY to drop off anyway. They're going to once they take their dealer kids off the bus, the BY kids from the tiered bus will get on that bus and be transferred over to BY. That tiered bus will then start the elementary route hopefully no later than 7:10, which should get them to the the school by 8:10. >> I guess my question is if the tiered bus gets there at 7, what are we going to do with the high school kids for 20 minutes? Because probably another bus isn't going to be there that early. So, are we going to put all kids in the cafeteria dealer? >> So, um principles and the building supervisor going to have to work out a plan of coverage. Um is that's really not a new idea that was actually

088done in the high school prior to me being there by some of the buses would unload, let people have staff there to watch them. Um I understand the concern may being at the middle school, but it all comes down to um adequate supervision. And the best thing about kids, they're early in the morning, particularly high school kids, they sleep. And so, um, it helps us, um, to kind of get those pieces work. So, we've got to work together at the building level, all department level to make it work for our kids because we're trying to well, we will work more efficiently than we have in the past. Great question, but it saves time versus that bus have make another shuttle stop. So, supervision is something that I've already started talking to Miss Gullick about. Um,

089that we may have to shift some people around in the morning to work together versus being middle school and high school. It may be I may have to send we may have to send a high school person over to the middle school that knows the kids. It kind of is because kids are about relationship, >> right? >> And so those are the things that we have to kind of work around and use flexibility to really just make it work. Um so um may not have the answer to all your question but we got some ideas and approaches to to make it work. >> Okay. Then my next question is for this year not the proposals. So tiered will pretty much be out in the afternoons, right? Because we're not staggered enough or we still going

090to be able to tear in the afternoons. >> We'll still be the elementary schools will have to um do what the high school did last year. >> Just sit tight >> and sit tight. Yes. >> We'll get it the drivers know to get the routes done as quickly as they can and get on to the next tier. And the three I think it's three routes we've got designed for this coming school year. Um the drivers are uh skilled drivers. They've been with us for a while. And one of the tier routes is actually the in town the the Yansyville area >> which is a lot of kids. >> Which is Yeah. A lot of kids. So but it will cut down the congestion in town with only one bus maybe two when you consider the

091EC bus also. Okay. >> Any other questions? I just want to add that um we're thinking now as progressively training transition so we can communicate um where we are in the process to this board in our community. Um it is crucially important people understand that we want our kids school safely but we are going to have to adapt and modify some of our practices um for both economic reasons as well as safety and for the well-being of both student acade student achievement as well as students. So, um, if there are no more questions, um, it is our recommendation that, um, the board approves the tier route as proposed for this school year. Um, consideration for next school year. >> Motion to accept this black. >> What is that we approve? We have so many times.

092>> Can you state the motion chairman? >> So, it's our recommendation that we adopt the tiered proposal as presented. Um, we're also looking at considerations for the 2617 school year. There's no need me having staff work on something if we're not open to doing. I'm just being direct for it because the board comes in and we can't we can't start this work in June of next year. It has to start >> throughout this school year. Now, for us, we're looking at 26 27. Just as we look at instructional practices, this operate, this is a shift in operational procedure. So then therefore we can present to this board options with the tier routing and then the board approved that final thing for 2627. >> You have questions before we go. Go ahead. >> I think it's

093very hard to approve it today when we don't see school start and stop times. I mean I would need an example of how we're going to lay it out. >> So So let me let me just clarify. What I'm asking for approval for the current schedule already fits what this board has stated for start and start terms. >> Okay. >> So this school year is solidified >> the tier routes that we have this school year. What I'm asking for approval is for us to make some proposals for the 2617 school year >> um for start time because and you you understand the why because we talked about this now because we cannot start this work in we've got to start this work now because we're going to be doing some trial and error trying to

094figure things out with this piece. This is a huge shift operating procedure. So, you know, I understand that I I'm just trying to in order for it to plan, you got to start. And so, that is that is that is foreign for this board to think that 2027 so far out, but we're going to have to go there in order to have something so we're not last minute scurrying trying to do things and then we're running more inefficient, end up costing us more money. >> I guess the question is not to be confused. You already have a plan for 2526, >> correct? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. And then the other piece of it is the plan 26 27. >> Correct. Correct. >> Okay. >> All right. >> I guess what I want to ask if

095we make it work this year the way you said you already got planned. I would like to see if it works. >> If I know where you're going with that and it's hard to say because you need more time between school start times for to see the true advantages of tier routing and with the stagger school time. We don't 15 minutes is not enough time. We're having to break in internal rules with dropping kids off before their staff at school to make this work. So, we're have we're building partnerships and whatnot. If we give approval for 2627 to start the process of looking at staggering the start times, then we can look at how the tier writing will affect and come with different staggered times to come before the board before we actually throw everything

096into it. >> So about what how much staggered time >> that's not that that can't be determined yet. You got to look at the whole route. >> Well, that's what I was going to ask. That's what I would like to see. >> Typically an hour >> at minimum. I would recommend an hour with a county this size because you're very similar to us. And an hour is pushing it. So you you probably need somewhere in hour and 10 minutes. Our bell times, just for your reference, are 7:20 for elementary, 8:20, 8:30 for middle and high school. >> Okay. >> Yes. Um, so what I'm thinking that you're what we're trying to do, we are not changing our times or anything from what we've already approved. We are adding to this new tier to start it

097to see how it will work. And we'll also wanting to because we're adding uh we're going to have to have people to be in place for an additional 20 minutes then earlier then that will give us some thing to help us work with for the 26 27 year. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So your middle school and high school ride buses just like us and they're not getting to school. They they share a bus, right? middle and high school. >> Um they don't usually share. They're dedicated. So it'll be say bus 50 will drive an elementary run drop and then drive a middle school run. >> So high school, middle school is not together. >> They're not together. No. >> Okay. So what do your parents do about the drop off at the

098middle school? A parent that has to be at work at 8:00. >> Case by case. >> Like at our elementary schools, we have a 4K. So that that's takes care of that. But when you move the time to 8:30 8:40 on a parent that's dropping off that has to be at work because we have a ton of drop off. If you look at our middle school, it's wrapped out into the road every day and we've got a long >> middle school is your highest bus route. Yeah. >> Well, I'm talking about car ride. We probably are equal car rider to bus ratio. I would almost expect there as many car riders that we have. So, you know, right now parents can start dropping off at 7:20 and at 7:20 that line is all the way

099out in the road. Parents dropping off before they go to work. >> We do have some some middle schools that are 80 8:05 810. Um, and they can drop off at 7, you know, 20-ish minutes first. >> But our because we ride the same buses, our high school and middle school have got to be pretty close on times. it you wouldn't necessarily have to put middle and high school on the same buses to be able to tier. >> Well, that's what we've been used. That's why I was asking. >> You don't have to. There's a lot of flexibility. Um, so I guess I don't worry as much about the high school kids getting to school and having to wait or something like that. I mean, you can drop them off on the sidewalk. They're old

100enough to sit there where middle school is not. So, I guess my question is, can we put elementary and middle on the same buses and not high school so we can have closer start times? In the words of DPI, you can do anything you want with the bus. There are buses bus routes in North Carolina that are K through 12. >> Yeah, I understand. Um, so you can you can put >> middle middle school and elementary, combine those two schools on the same bus and leave the high school freestanding. >> Um, that's just a change we'd have to make on our end. Um, it would might help a little bit because um, right now a middle and high school bus the capacity is 48 kids where you do an elementary and middle it goes from

10148 kids to 66 kids. I just know the biggest when we started talking about start and stop times last year, the biggest push back we got was from middle school parents on what am I going to do with my kid because there's no before after school care and you know that was a big thing and so that's the only solution that I would like to see something wrapped around if we're going to change times dramatically. Well, can can I >> go ahead? >> Uh, when Stokes kind of implemented this, I'm sure there was some push back. >> Yeah. >> All right. Walk us through how you communicated those things because I think once people understand the why, change is always hard, but once you understand the why, those pieces because if I, if I remember

102correctly, your car rider numbers have gone down because your buses were running more efficiently. So therefore, parents often put their child on the bus because the bus didn't come as early and those not pieces. Grant there going to be a parent that's never going to put their child on the bus because they don't want their child on the bus, >> but there's going to be parents who will put their child on the bus if they can make it work because they got to get get the right family. So um those are the pieces. So walk us through some scenarios and some feedback that you guys express >> and there not every aspect of everything is ideal. I mean, there are some some families tiered routing is just not a good fit for and those are

103going to be case by case. Uh we allow those families to meet us at other bus stops. Uh if we know that we've got a bus stop close to them at a different time, you be there when we get there, you put the kid on bus. We do the same thing for out of county kids. If you meet us, we'll pick you up. We just can't go out of the county. So, we can transportation just like he can can work with each family that's got time constraints. And that's what we've done. And I feel like we cleared most of those up. Um, it was a big shock to change bell times in a county like ours like it would be for here. Um, but the push back that we got the first two years were

104normal logistics. I don't have anybody watch them in the afternoons. They're going to get home at this time. I don't we work through those things. Um, there is no blanket answer for how we make every family happy and content with what we're going to do. We just did it on a case- by case basis and our bus rider numbers have skyrocketed. I mean they are way higher than they were. Uh when I took the position in 21, which was the first year of routing, um our ridership was roughly 2,000 and now we're pushing 2,700. So which doesn't sound like much, but for DPI that's a lot, but um if you can get over 40 kids on a on a route, an AM route, you're pretty efficient. So if you picked up 20 for the elementary

105and 20 for the middle school, that's 40 kids for the AM route, the two runs put together. If you can do that, that's a good benchmark. And we have buses that combined are over a hundred, you know, and the bus only holds 72. So, so we're over 100% efficient on quite a few of our routes, especially in the King area, our our metropolitan area, you know, and so they they pick up the slack for our northern end, but it's much less densely populated. Our north side, because there's so few students and it's spread way out, it's very similar to here. our middle and high school ride together there, but they don't on the south side and the west side because we don't need them to. And frankly, if they did it on the west side,

106we wouldn't have enough room. The buses would be too small. So, you you've got to tailor this model to fit your demographic and your geographic area. But just running the quick numbers that I did when he approached me for this, it's it's very doable. And I want to say within three years time you would be spending zero local for transportation annually. Uh outside of you know director salaries and things that come out of local. But as far as the operation of yellow buses, there's no reason this couldn't work for you. >> And I'm I'm happy to help facilitate. You can call me anytime. I can share numbers, routes, what we did the first year and what we got rid of for the second year and the mistakes that we made and because we leaned on

107other people when we did it too then that's what we're supposed to do. >> All right. Anyone else questions, comments? >> I don't have a question. I guess for me I'm not understand we're making a motion on because we're not taking any action. This is already in place for this school year. We don't have to take any action on it. And if we're not implementing school times for next year and implementing this, I'm not sure what action we're taking with the motion. >> So the reason I asked for the the the the action is this is going to be considerable amount of work for staff and what has sometimes happened is at the last minute we're actually presenting something. This is a huge shift for us to work on. So I don't I want this

108board to be a a prize or what. So I'm just putting it out there for clarity and transparency that we must move toward tier routing. Granted, the the the deciding factor is this wonderful body of people, but you've got to have the information. So we give you the information in enough time. because we've got to communicate that also to our families and our constituents because this is a shift because we've done it a certain way for so long and yes it change is difficult but change is inevitable. So it's just to be transparent. The reason I want this is cuz this is a different definition of what tier looked like last year. And so um the tiered busing that we have in place for this school year is different and you did not know about

109that. So that's why we bring that so that you can approve it and understand and so when people call why is this happening? because this is the tier now cuz the tier of last year and the tier of this year are night and day difference. So I want you to be the light to help u go away the confusion also. Well if if I need to um change some wording we need some consensus that you understand the importance of why we need to look into um the tier for 26 27 because I know start times is a touch of subject for us all. I mean, I'm not those pieces, but we have to look at what's best operationally as well as best for the well-being of our staff and of course, how it supports the

110academics of our students. >> Okay, let's twist it this way. What I'm hearing you say is 26 27 is a planning year now for 26 27 >> 25 what I said >> 26 27 would be your big blast of what you want to do. >> Yes. Okay. Yes. >> Now, what are you doing for 25 26? >> 2526. We basically took last year's model. >> Okay. >> Flip-flopped it and we're going to run the tier based on bell time. >> Okay. >> So, instead >> current bail time, >> current bell current the current bell times. >> There you go. Um, so it's not going to be uh elementary school starting at 8:10 is going to be the first kids picked up and then the tier is going to go out and do middle and high

111school who have to be at school 45 minutes prior before elementary students do it. That didn't work. >> I got you. So what I'm hearing you say is we approving 2526 for what he just said. Correct. >> And for 26 27 is a full planning year >> for another tier. >> Yes. >> All right. before that I'm clear on that too. I understand we need to go ahead and approve now tier for this year coming up, >> but it's hard for me to say I'm gonna sit here and approve 2627. >> You're not approving 20. You're approving him to plan for 2627. >> That's what I hear you say. Yes. >> So why do we have to approve for him to plan it? >> You don't have to, but it has to come back to

112you before school starts next school year. It it has been it has been my experience that this board likes to be know why we're doing what we're doing. Okay. >> And so the reason I'm bringing this recommendation is to make it clear why we're doing what we're doing so that there isn't confusion and that may be a shift in transparency but that is where I stand because you need to understand these things. >> If if I may, it's very similar to to some issues that we've had in Stokes. I think what they're seeking is a consensus to move forward with planning. >> If there's any any stakeholder in this meeting that is vehemently against doing this, they want to know that now so that they don't waste the time planning. Okay. >> Um if everyone

113is amendable to a proposal, then they'll move forward with it. I think that's what they're asking. >> Action. >> I have made the motion. >> Okay. Not even a second yet. You did, Mr. Chair. >> They ask the question. >> I know. Didn't get a second from me. >> Go ahead. >> Again, this does not require forformational purposes. They're putting it out there, but that is an internal thing that they're doing to ride in Dillard. It doesn't change anything that we've done. Nothing that they're putting out today requires a motion action from the board. I understand the consensus to move forward. We don't have to vote on anything they've done. It does not require action on the board. They're not changing anything by doing this tiered routing that we have to vote on. That is

114something transportation directors put in place. >> Okay. >> We already voted last year to give those drivers that are doing tiered routing benefits and the pay if John puts them in place. So there's nothing today that requires action on behalf of this board. >> Question. Is there a consensus from everybody to move forward with what we're doing? >> Yes, sir. >> Is there consensus? Anybody opposed? You live with it? >> I can. I have to. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Go forward. >> Thank you, >> sir. Thank you. >> Go back to water cold. That's North. All right. Let's move to number four. All right. It is clear that the governor Josh Stein and the news and the media shared some information regarding um cell the use of cell phones and other electronic devices in

115school. So before we approve our handbook, I felt that it was necessary to kind of bring this back around so that we can inform both the board as well as our community um what implications this has for our school district. >> Okay. So um C County Schools has a board policy policy 4316 the use of cell phones or electronic devices. The bill that Josh D signed in place gives a caveat to where they can still be used for instructional purposes. The concern and the question comes up is what is casual county schools going to do in regards to sell phones? Everybody with me so far? So, we have a policy. The policy that we have in place is our policy. Um, from the state superintendent, Maurice Mo Green, as with others, it is still the

116local decision on what your policy states you can and cannot do regarding cell phones. The thing with uh the bill states that you know it it takes off some for some some liabilities in regards to if we take a phone that kind of stuff but it is still our policy. So I wanted um to get feedback from this board regarding um to clarify that phones aren't automatically just banned from schools. Okay. It's all for that may be the perception from the media outlets. Um, but it it says if used for instructional purposes. So the concern is what is SC County schools going to do regarding cell phones for the upcoming school year? And so I know that there was some correspondence going around where people felt that um, oh great, we ain't got to do

117anything because the governor has said they're illegal, but that's not exactly what was said. I'm glad Mr. Bradford was here as well. uh turn on the safe side. So I pled principles um to kind of get the feedback regarding the um what practices or what concern they had with our current policy that was in place. It's just um common knowledge that it doesn't matter what rules you have in place, if you do not follow them, do not hold them accountable and do them consistently, um you're going to have problems. So if you look at last school year, there were some school sites that had problems with cell phones because there wasn't um consistency with um the understanding of how we do this and how we deal with that. Therefore, it became a problem. But once

118um administration got in place and addressed it, the the concerns and problems um decreased because of cell phones. You know, you may have your personal parent, your personal preference what a kid should and should not use a cell phone for, but for the sake of working with the 2,000 plus students we have, we have to come to a consensus or we're changing the policy of those pieces. So when I oppose the elementary principles, the elementary principles were um supportive of remaining the same practice they put in place last school year because according to the elementary principal I spoke with all four. Um the cell phone issue um is probably more of a secondary issue than it is an elementary issue due to the nature of the child that children work with. All right. So, I'm

119I'm going kind of do it. So, what's in the handbook and what's in the policy for both for elementary, our principles are um suggesting we stay with current practice in place. >> Okay. Um for middle school, spoke with Miss Gull as well as spoke with Miss Miss Carter at high school. Uh they too are in align with what the current practices in place was for as far as using it at lunch. those pieces. The principles did not recommend a change in policy. What we have to do now is do a much better job enforcing and being consistent. I I think the main reason is just like um speeding down the road always going to stop as you get enough tickets and get enough concerns. So I don't have a different recommendation for student and cell

120phone. I do think it's a curriculum issue for us to see how we can ensure that we keep the teaching learning process engaging enough why our students are not deferring to other devices um that's not supporting instruction because we use cell phones for instruction in some places very heavily. Um, example the drone class. There's a app they have to download on their phone and computer that they use that to operate the drone. In some of the English classes, they use it for cahoot. We use it for gim kit. We use it in math classes that we used to have flicker. So there are instructional practices, right? We use the cell phone, but it has to be something of that is supported by the classroom teacher that they're using. >> Okay. In our premeating last week,

121I expressed this concern and I'll express it now. If you look at the current policy 4318, anytime I see the word may, I have a problem with that. And this is why may I may do it, I may not do it. That's the problem I've got. If you start with authorized use, number one, administrators may authorize. And where you get into the problem is principal A may do something that principal B may not do. That's the problem I've got. Uh if you keep going through the policy, you'll continually see the word may. Give you an example. I think Dylan had a good policy, but they weren't enforcing the policy. That was the problem they had there. All right. I think Dylan was allowed uh lunchtime. I think the high school was between change of classes

122and lunchtime, etc., etc. But let me give you an example of something. Let's say the phones are out of sight. They not being used. And let's say a fight jumps off between two kids. Boom. And in a few minutes, it's going to be where? >> Everywhere. All right. Uh, how do you handle that? Mhm. >> You see, so I'm not saying that I'm totally against what we already have, but I think it's important that we be consistent across the board. The other piece is I express in our meeting is staff members use cell phone, too. If kid A sees teacher B on the phone, they say, "Well, I can do that, too." But there's a difference there and we need to be very careful with that because we want to be consistent and fair to

123everybody. So, uh, I could go either way, but my main concern is everybody needs to be consistent. Each principal needs to be consistent. I'll stop there. Anybody else have comments? >> At the high school, I mean, I'm a proponent. I don't think a kid need a cell phone in school. Okay. I mean having it with it out of sight but to have it out I mean when when they're at lunch that's the time they should be socializing. That's what's wrong with our kids nowadays. They do not know how to socialize because electronic device and then to me if they have it out doing class time I mean changing that's probably taking some of them longer to get to class because they're too busy trying to figure out what they missed on Tik Tok and whatever

124else they're looking at. And then as far as staff, I mean, I've worked in school for in the last what, three, three and a half years, and some people might get upset with me, but sometimes I've seen staff have their phones out too much. I mean, I know teachers do use it, I guess, have a timer, you know, so they make sure to get lunch on time and get to, you know, enhancements and stuff, but it's not always that. And one thing that really frights me is to see a teacher walk around school with a phone stuck in their back pocket. That's very unprofessional. >> Okay. >> And I guess one other thing I guess when they had the um concert, you know, the cor core concert, those kids did a beautiful job singing, but

125a lot of them was on that stage with their cell phone sticking in their back pockets. You know, there's a time and a place for everything. And the cell phone usage I think has gotten out of hand because every parent think that child needs their cell phone within the school just in case something happens. And I don't totally agree with that one. That's fine. >> Anyone else? >> Well, I would agree with y'all. I think I wouldn't mind seeing something in there about staff usage maybe just for academic use or something like that covers. Then the other thing is just the time at the top. you know, if we're >> if we're changing times, can we maybe just put academic school day? Then if we go to tier next year, we won't have to keep

126changing that. >> Um, >> and if the principles are good with it, >> so I want I need to add a thing. Um, the vis what we need to we do need to probably provide clarity on what we call visibility of a phone. Um there has been some inequitable approaches where some students are policed because their phone imprint can be seen in their pocket and so some staff have stated hand me a phone I can see the imprint in your pocket but the phone is in their pocket. Now phones come in very different sizes some small big large flip unflip TV screen all that kind of stuff. So, if the phone's in the pocket and you can see part of it, but if they're not in use of it, um I think there's a gray

127area there that we're going to have to really make sure staff is in tow and in line with how we enforce that because if a kid has a phone in their pocket, I use myself example. If I'm wearing my my shirt and I have my phone in my dress top, you can see the top part of it. I'm not on it. And so there are staff that will say, "I want to take your phone because I see you." But the phone, they weren't actually on the phone. And that creates a conflict that most time escalates to take away from instructional time, those pieces and and form relationship. So, I think that we just need to educate everybody on the same page with what it looks like, feels like, sounds like um a phone being visible

128because depending on what the student is wearing um or the pocket, the most phones are bigger than most pockets and we're not allowing them to have bags at a particular level. The only place they have to put it is in that pocket, you know. Um, you know, so it's just one of those things we I I think we're getting the little small pieces. We just kind of have to kind of hash that out and possibly know what that looks like, feels like. But as far as far as the policing of phones, um, cell phones are not going away. Um, but we do need to be consistent. I agree with that. Um, my concern is what happens at the middle may not necessarily be what's appropriate at the high school. Um, and and I stand on

129that all day every day because you're dealing with a different child in the middle school than you're dealing with at the high school for various reasons. >> Any other come back? >> Um, that that's dealing with the instructional part. If every child doesn't have a cell phone and the teacher says we're going to be using the cell phone, how is how is that remedyed? I you know, because I don't think I don't know. But when I was teaching, every child didn't have a cell phone. But that may be different now. Okay. So, but I think that to say that in a classroom when they have the instructional, they need to make sure that every child has a cell phone or accessible to a cell phone if they're going to use it for instructional purposes. I

130think that should be something um to to think about because I wouldn't want a child to feel bad because they didn't have a cell phone and also their cell phone may have been taken from their parent, >> you know, be on punishment and they couldn't bring the cell phone to school but they need it for instruction. >> So I think that that's a that's a great error. >> The instructional standpoint please would be we need to um greater utilize our one to one um to the point to where we may we have explored and thought about exploring eliminating the devices going home so that they can be school and charge because uh kids are kids and sometimes I forgot or left it or I didn't get charged that kind of stuff um prior to co

131I do not believe devices went home and I think that's something that probably started postco and it could be a time for an instructional strategy to look at that but getting back to the cell phone policy that we have um other than the times of the other changes of edits we think would need to happen more discussion. Now we're dealing with 4318 now. Um and Joel made a suggestion about academic day time is then the other thing. Let's see the way I look at the governor has given you an opportunity. >> Okay. And what you do with it is what you're going to live with. But this is what we have in 4318 now. And so when you're saying instructional time, the academic time you're saying from >> when classes start, classes in, I guess

132what you're saying >> For that day, that's what you're saying. >> Instructional time is defined at the time we um use for our school calendar. So for example, first the high school is when when the first block starts, transition isn't considered instructional time. Okay? >> Um lunch at the secondary level isn't considered instructional time. Right? So in a middle school when that instructional day begins that's when cell phones should be not seen view or heard and so again I think this is a more issue more catered to second to the secondary 612 than elementary from the feedback I've gotten from from principles >> miss >> so at the high school Mr. folks. You didn't have problems with the kids on their phones when they were coming in the classroom from changing classes. >> So they

133with with the implementation of hall sweeps um that really got them there on time and we told them they had to put them away. Now the teacher got to enforce it. So I mean come down to the the teacher has to enforce it and you know that's going to be a 247 every day of school enforcement that has to happen. So you want me to tell you that if a kid walks in the classroom and the phone wasn't put in the book bag backpack yet? Not but we have a code of conduct that says they have to put it away. You have you have to give them due process. So the concern comes down to is you know we can stand in the door and say all right I'm taking the phone but I don't

134think that I would say that's the best practice because of the relationship that we have established with students. Well, I guess I what I want to know is that because you know I know at Dillard when I was sub over there before we started no phones in between changing they came in. Well, I got to finish my I'm talking to my mama so I didn't know if it would be best at the high school say no doing changing classes too. Would that help teachers out? I'm looking to what you know teachers shouldn't have to be posting cell phones all day long. >> It's it's part of the job. >> I know it is but >> I think it just is. I mean it. >> Yeah. But I spent about 15 minutes making kids get off

135their cell phone when I was at Diller. So I know how that little bit goes. So I didn't know if it would be beneficial just to say only at lunchtime. >> I mean >> well I'm just asking you since you were the principal there. How how are your teachers? >> Uh I have not heard I have not had a chance to talk with the teachers since this change came out. So I I will not speak about them without talking to them. The only people I could talk to were the principles. And so my personal opinion is it comes down to relationship and I can tell there are some teachers don't have a cell phone problem. The kids know what the expectation is ABC and D. There's others that's not the case. >> And so it

136been said stated it's kind of case by case but we have a policy about use of cell phones. And so the question is with this policy what do you want to change? Because the principles have said we are fine with this policy. >> All right. I was just now reading has talked about this whatever similar devices or whatever. What happened on smart watches? >> Now I can speak on smartwatch that we see them on the smartwatch doing thing. So we use some in front of the cell phone because you know we we you know it's kind of hard to hide that on on the watch. Um that that one is not as um not as major as you'll see with the phone because it's easy to conceal. Um, but I've also seen why you have

137a staff member when you come in the room. Okay, lift your sleeves up and poling that causes conflict. >> Um, I mean, you have to be careful when we have because we got some people that are straight rule followers and in their opinion they're doing what's right because you said that not beyond those things. So, it gets taken literally and um rhetorically. So, you have to understand that metaphorically, excuse me. You have to take those things. So we have to redine what it looks like, feels like, sound like, how we get with smart watches, how we do with earbuds because those those are the things. >> Okay. Anyone else? >> Yes or no? >> Go ahead. >> I can make a motion. This is recommendation. >> It's your recommendation. Keep as is. >> Okay. >>

138Just change the time. >> Just work on time. >> We make that. >> So I'll make a motion that we wave the second read on this and go with everything except the time change. Smith seconds. Any further discussion? All right. The motion is to wave the second read. >> Oh, thank for instance, if we approve this and I know it's simply what we had, but I guess if you see that it's a the same problem or the problem escalates, will you revisit it next school year? >> We can revisit. >> You don't have to wait for next. You can do it anytime. Anytime. >> Any other discussion? All right. The motion is to approve second reading with the change in academic time. It's been discussed. Is there any further discussion? That's the motion. All right.

139All in favor of that motion, raise your hand. Opposed. Motion is carried. At this time, I'd like to make a motion we take a 10-minute break. Is there a second to that? Mr. Nelly, anybody want to discuss that? Motion is to take a 10-minute break. All raise your hand. >> What? >> I said you didn't do my motion. >> You didn't get a second for your motion. >> No, you didn't. You didn't. You didn't motion to that. They start a discussion. All right. So, let it be done. Thank you very much.