Board of Education Meeting - October 21, 2025

001We'll go ahead and call this special called meeting for October the 21st, 2025 to order. Uh at this time, I'd ask if Mr. Borders would come and lead us in our invocation. Mr. Borders, I see we see the same idea. It's breast cancer awareness. And I appreciate you appreciate your pink there. >> Yes, sir. Let us pray. Oh kind, gracious heavenly father, we come to you right now just thank you for another opportunity, Lord, to lift your name up and give you the prayer and honor that you deserve. And we pray for this board and we pray for our young people of Cleveland County and our teachers. And Lord, we just ask you to be in the midst of this meeting and watch over our board of education as they make decisions tonight. We love

002you. We honor you in Christ Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. >> All right, Mr. Sperling, would you lead us in our pledge, please? >> Please stand. Salute to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All righty. Next is the adoption of the agenda. Do I have a motion to adopt the agenda? make a motion. >> I'd like to amend the agenda. >> Uh I don't believe we can amend the agenda on a special called meeting. >> Madame Attorney, uh are we able to amend the agenda in a special called meeting? >> Okay. What's your what's your uh what you what's your adoption >> that uh that board members has uh can have public participation?

003and I don't see that on here. And u that I thought this was going to be like sort of like a town hall meeting questions asked back and forth and that's not the way it is on this agenda. >> Well, even if we have board comments, we're not going to have a back and forth. Uh I mean that's just it just be board we can have board comments but uh the thinking was if we have a motion that comes forward tonight and a second we will have to have discussion but >> Okay. >> I second. >> Okay. All right. Uh >> it don't matter. >> Okay. All right. >> Mr. Grigg to have >> Yes, sir. On both. Is that a change to the agenda or is that a change to the rules? >> A

004change to the rules >> for board member comments, >> right? That's not a change to the rules, is it? >> That's not what he said. >> What? >> That's not the board members be able to participate in public participation. Do you want board comments? >> Yeah, I want our board comments so our board can be able to make a comment after what we've heard. They ought to be able to do our public comment, board member comments just like we always do. >> Okay. All right. >> And then the other thing was that we had to answer questions back to a person. And that's the way I understood that our meeting was going to be tonight. That is sort of like a town hall meeting. I I don't I don't see it as a back and

005forth. Uh we can have board member comments. Uh but as I said before, if we make a motion and a second on an issue, there has to be comments or participation or the ability to comment after that. But uh but so the motion is to have board member comment. Where would you like the board member comments to go on the agenda? uh after our uh after we've heard from the people. >> So after public participation. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. All right. Is that okay? All right. We have a motion >> and a second. All right. All those in favor, if you would raise your hand and those opposed. All right. That passes 7 to two. All right. And we will put that after uh >> it should be 4.02, right? >> Yeah, it

006will be >> 4.02 after public participation. >> I mean public comment, I'm sorry. >> 5.0. >> All right. All right. Before we get started and I call on Dr. Wampler, just want to say a few things. First, I'd like to thank everyone for attending tonight's special call meeting regarding Marian Elementary School. The purpose of tonight's meeting is to establish the method of disposal that will be used for this property. However, before moving to that discussion, I want to give a brief review of the events that led to this evening. As part of the Cleveland County's reorganiza reorganization efforts, Graham and Marin elementary schools were closed at the end of 2021 2022 school year. The district's reorganization plan included closing those two elementary schools in one intermediate school. Those K5 students were then mostly consolidated as

007elementary and sixth grade students who moved to Shelby Middle School. On April 17th, 2023, the board voted to declare Marion Elementary property surplus. It is is no longer necessary for public uh purposes based on enrollment, cost of maintenance, and cost per pupil concerns. In accordance with state law, the property was offered to the board of commissioners. The county expressed no interest in the property. As a courtesy, we consulted with the city of Shelby to determine that the city was interested in the property. The city expressed no interest in the property. September 2025, this matter was addressed at September 29, 2025 safety and operations meeting. One more one less project requested to present to the committee to share their interest in the property on October 7th, 2005. Due to the importance of the decision, I requested

008that their presentation be shared with the entire board for consideration, hence the special call meeting that took place October the 7th, 2025. As of today, October 21st, after hearing the community's concerns, the board decided it would be best to allow additional times so information on enrollment and facilities could be shared with the public. While I recognize that there are several have expressed concern over population growth and overcrowding of schools, I hope you've had time to review the important information posted on diligent community and see the thoughtful consideration that has taken place. Safe and efficient run schools is our priority. You will hear additional information and much more detail during Dr. for Wampler's presentation, but to give you a quick overview regarding the enrollment at this time, the district is down approximately 200 students overall from

009last school year and we currently have approximately 297 seats open in the Shelby zones across all three elementary schools. Research from the National Association of Homebuilders shows that on average the U in the US there are.34 public school age children per housing unit. That is one child for every three homes in recent construction. For example, if 1,000 new homes were built over the next several years, that would equate to approximately 300 school age children. When divided across 13 grades, that would be slightly over 20 students per grade level. When divided out amongst three elementary schools, that is six to seven students per school, per grade level. Admittedly, students don't come in nice evenly disputed bundles, distributed bundles, but one can nevertheless see from the enrollment information we can accommodate that sort of growth. The decision

010before us tonight is the next step for the Marin Elementary School property. The decision to close the beloved Marin Elementary, as emotionally as it was, has already taken place. That decision was made based on sound demographic data and careful review of the fifth facility study. To date, the enrollment projections have been in line with what we are seeing. To allow this building to sit vacant is not proven. Traditionally, this board has used upset bid or seal bid process to dispose of property. However, if the board decides to further entertain the proposal by one more or more one less, then the board would adopt a resolution authorizing the staff to enter into negotiation with a nonprofit in accordance with North Carolina General Statute 168-266B. Under this narrow statute, private negotiations are permitted. If negotiations are successful,

011the sale of the property will be outlined in a purchase agreement. If the board moves forward in this direction, Preservation North Carolina or a similar 501c3 would act as the inter intermedi intermediary can't even speak tonight between the Cleveland County Board of Education and one more or one less to ensure adherence to the preservation agreement. I mention this not to get into the weeds, but to share a level of assurance with the community that the preservation agreement runs with the land and has oversight regardless of the owner. This is a layer of protection for the community that is not guaranteed in an upset bid process. Is my primary goal to run schools safely and efficiently and to be good stewards of the resources we have. At this time, I call on Dr. Wler. >> We

012adopted the agenda. >> Yeah, we adopted the agenda. >> Okay. >> As amended. >> All right. Sorry. Let me go back. Uh, >> we need to go back and adopt the agenda as amended. Do I hear a motion to adopt the agenda as a Mr. Bridges and Mr. Grigg? All those in favor? All right, that's 90. All right, Miss Wampler. >> Good evening. >> You have a copy of the um presentation that I'd like to review with you tonight. Uh, Mr. Shores has said some of the things, but I'll uh highlight some of them. There was uh the decision to uh go forward with the Shelby Zone reorganization which came as a recommendation uh from McMill and Pas and Smith when they did the facility assessment and that recommendation was based really on two things.

013One the low facility ratings at some of the schools in the Shelby zone and due to the costly underutilization of multiple schools. So, in looking at that, we'll talk a little bit about what those two things were. Um, just as part of the uh presentation that McMillan Pass and Smith did for the district, uh they did a demographic forecast and in that it said that we would see an increase uh in enrollment and they projected it for a 5-year period and then a 10-year period. Uh and they projected that, you know, by 2627 we would see around a decrease of 351 students. Currently in looking at our uh 10day numbers, we see a decrease of 162. And I just point that out to say that, you know, we do see uh the trends and things

014that they showed. Um we see that happening in our school system. Uh this is the board timeline. Mr. Shores has already done a very good job going over that. So I'll I'll move on from that. So like I said a minute ago, when uh MPS did the facility assessment, they looked at two things. And one of them was the the facility and what it you know what it was like. And so this was some interesting uh information they gave about Marian at the time. Overall they gave Marian school a rating of two which would be poor condition. And within the facility assessment they looked at different things and one of the things they looked at was the health, safety and security of each campus. Marian was rated a one which is the lowest rating that

015you can receive. It's considered in critical condition. Uh the reason for that rating uh was related to accessibility. If you've been on the campus of Marian, this isn't a surprise to you because there are multiple buildings uh that are not connected. You have buildings that have uh multiple stories. Uh even you have you have one building that's uh a building that was built in I think the 1980s that's a twotory. You also have another one that was built in the 1950s that's a twotory. And but while they're both two stories, it's not even the same level. So you've got some accessibility issues. Uh we have one elevator on that campus. McMill and Patton Smith said if we were to continue with Marian we would really need to have three to allow good uh uh accessibility

016for students in wheelchairs or who have mobility issues. Um so I think that's you know why the the rating was received of that. And I think it's important to note none of that has changed. you know that continues to be what the rating of the school would be in in terms of health, safety and security. Uh the second one of the other things that they rated was the site condition and it was rated a two uh which is means poor condition and the reasons that they rated that were there at the time that Marian was running as a school there were vehicle circulation issues. So car rider line and things like that uh were limited. There were water drainage issues again rel related to the topography of the campus. um because there's a slope and

017so you would have some water drainage in some areas where people walk as well as towards the play area. Um when you have separate buildings, you have a lot of canopies. Uh we the canopies were beginning to show signs of rust. The roof was nearing the end of its life and there were some moisture damage issues and and just other damages in general that led to that um rating of two. Uh there were also mechanical, electrical, and plumbing issues that were uh rated a two- room in poor condition. So I think when you look at the facility, part of the reason that Marian was chosen to be one of the schools that would be closed was because the campus just had multiple issues uh that required attention and would require a great deal of money

018um to fix. Sorry. The second thing related to the space utilization. So this is uh the information that came directly from their report. Um and they looked at the enrollment in u the 1920 school year and they looked at the capacity. Uh I think when you look at this some of the numbers if you're we're looking at that kind of end column that says full capacity. You notice our lowest uh capacity at the time was at Shelby Middle. Um this is you know was disturbing to the board because Shelby Middle is the newest campus in the zone. So you have your newest campus, your best uh campus, your most conducive as far as the learning environment, and it has uh your lowest utilization. Part of that is because really uh it was meant to be

019a 68 school and was running as a 78. So part of the reorganization was to move back to a traditional middle school model and move your sixth grade there, which would then uh cause the intermediate school to become uh an elementary school. You see the next two schools that have a low uh utilization are Marian and Graham. And that coupled with the the age of those facilities and the issues that those facilities made those campuses uh ones that MPS recommended uh be closed. I think you can see in general that overall there the the utilization of the space uh in all of those schools was was lower than we would have wanted. Just some notes about space utilization because that's something we don't usually think about. A lot of times when we talk about capacity,

020we're thinking about square footage and we're thinking, you know, how many people can be in the space. Space utilization is not based on square footage. Space utilization is based on how you use the space and how many empty seats are available in the way you're using it. So this is the definition that NPS gave of space utilization and it's it's you know you analyze it looking at your current instructional use of academic space only. Um and then I think you know where it says space utilization does not measure consistency between campuses because obviously campuses can use their space differently. The number of kindergarten classes at one school to another could be different. Uh one school may have pre-k, one may not. So your space you use it differently. Um, but really what space utilization is

021is looking at kind of the number of empty seats you have. So you have to be careful when you're comparing space utilization from year to year because you may not use the space the same way. And so we can while we can look at the space utilization numbers that NPS had, we cannot compare them by just sticking in our enrollment numbers now because we use the space completely differently. uh at the time of the uh their study, they were prek4 schools. Um they had rooms that may have been you maybe you had a classroom that you were using as an office because it was empty or you had a classroom that you were using as storage and so it wouldn't have been considered in your space utilization and now you're you've reclaimed those as you've

022better used your space and so now it becomes an instructional space, a classroom. So now we have schools in that zone that are K5 and you have spaces that may not have been used instructionally because they didn't need them and now you are. And then of course we have preK at at Marian. So you just have to be careful that when you're looking at it, you can't just automatically compare even the same school from year to year if your utilization is not the same. So this is a current space utilization of the Shelby elementary schools looking on what they have right now means based on whether or not they have kindergarten or prek how many classes they have of it uh and so on. And so what you see is that like we have um

023James Love for example since it's on that first line you can see uh that their target capacity would be you know they're at 93% and for full capacity they're around 85%. And so then the number of empty seats they have would be 66. And that would be filling each class to the max. Um that means we would not that would not be adding teachers. It's just filling whatever classes you have whatever max is allowed uh by the state or if the state doesn't have a max then what's the district uh set max for those um spaces. And so you can see where we are now. You can see that, you know, as far as like target capacity, which is around 90%, which is, you know, somewhat what you want your goal to be because that

024means your campus is being used well. Uh you're using the space well, but you have room uh for growth. You have room for um for some extra things. And so you see we're we're really right in a good place, especially when you compare to where we were in 1920 with uh lots of empty uh space. But now we're, you know, at a better target capacity. So then we have a little utility information which and you've got kind of a comparison from 2122 uh which was the last full year of those schools being in use and then our current um and I think you really you really see a correlation here with a better use uh of space. I think we can look at James Love since that's the the the first one that has data

025for both years. You see really the utility costs um for 2122 compared to 2425 are very similar. They're a little less uh in 2425 which I think has to do with uh the fact that we have upgraded the HVAC system there. Part of the reason we can upgrade the HVAC system there was we had some additional money because we're not putting them in other places that may have had at the time a greater need. Uh but we were able to do those there. But you can see like at James Love in 21-22 with less students, you know, the uh you can see the cost per student was 271 where the cost per student has gone down. And that's really because you have more, you know, more students using the space. You know, regardless of the

026number of students we have in a school, we're going to turn all the lights on. We're still going to go to the gym. We're still going to go to the cafeteria. But when you have more students here, you're getting more bang for your buck. I think, you know, looking at Shelby Middle again is one that's just it's a number I think to be proud of because that is our best our newest facility and now we're doing better job using it because we have more students in uh that space. I think again if you look you notice that Graham at the time uh was very expensive uh really just the due to the age of the school. You also see uh that Marian uh was our next most expensive as far as utility and the the

027cost per student. just some a little um information related to um transfers and empty seats and things like that. I've listed for you for 2526 the the transfers. These are just new transfers that were approved this year. Uh and then you also have your out ofount transfers because out of county transfers are approved every year. Um so if you you know if you were needing to to make space you could choose uh in the future to limit or to not allow transfers um you know in a year that would free up some spaces. Uh but then also you have the spaces that were on the other one if we were to fill u classrooms to the max they could. So you have in general around 400 seats that you could if you you know were

028to not allow transfers. uh and we have a very open transfer policy at this at this time and if you were to deal with your empty seats. So I think the conclusions that we find when we look at this information is that the Shelby reorganization um did what McMill and Pis said that it would do. It improved our space utilization of schools. Uh we're more costeffective. Uh we have more students going to schools that are in better condition. uh and that that's what the the board wanted at that time. I think currently we do have space available to add students in the Shelby zone and based on the data there's not a need for an additional elementary school. So that would be our conclusions based on the data. >> Okay. Any questions for Miss Mr.

029>> Yes. Uh at our last meeting I asked for the grade level at each school the capa how much that capacity of each room of grade levels that we had. I have not seen that and I really would like to seen that the study so I'd know how I could comment right there. Do you have that as far as the grade level and uh the capacity if they're at capacity or not at capacity? Might have the room in the school, but is that classroom for that grade level? Uh how what capacity are they at? You know, at each grade level at the school, if if we're that low, then why did we spend money to rent a mobile unit? [Applause] So, so a couple of things, Mr. Blandon. First of all, to to address the

030capacity concern of a classroom, we put a grade level at capacity because we don't want to increase transfers that we may have to add an additional teacher. So for instance, we may at a grade level have four classrooms and we may have two empty seats in each one of those classrooms. So that means we've got eight empty seats at a particular grade level. But we have closed it for transfers and we've deemed that at capacity because we want to leave room for people that move into that residential area to go to that school and not have a transfer. If not, if we allow those transfers, then the district's going to end up hiring extra teachers, which comes out of local paid money because we're we are would then be exceeding what the state gives us.

031The state all lots us teachers based on a district number. So the state gives us an aotment for because class size the way the K3 class size law is kindergarten, we get X number of kindergarten teachers. You take the total number of kindergarteners we have. Let's just for for uh argument sake, let's say that's 975. You divide it by the aotment formula, which is the the class size there, and we get a number of teachers that teach kindergarten. Well, as we know, those kindergarters don't come in nice easy groups of of 16 or 17. And so sometimes we at schools we may have a class size of 15 because or 14 because the number of of kindergarteners you can't make three classrooms because you go over. So you have to add four and so now

032you have lots of empty seats. So in that situation we may not close it to transfers. It may not be at capacity because we've already hired those teachers and we have empty seats. But on the other hand, it could be that the class size at a grade level is 20 and we have 57 students. So we've got a 19 students in each classroom. We would close that classroom or grade level for capacity, but we still have empty seats. So yes, we could have a a grade level that is closed for capacity but still have empty seats because I do not the believe the board and direction we've had in for years with the board of education is when we approve approve transfers, we don't want to approve transfers in a way that we're continuing to

033add teachers. So when we talk about seats available, we're talking about actual seats in a teacher's classroom that would not exceed the maximum because outside of our restart schools, we have a K3 class size maximum. And when when we exceed that, we by law have to add a teacher. So sometimes Dr. Wampler will come and say at school A we're over class size. We had five kids move into that area. We're over class size. We're going to have to add a teacher. Okay, we look at can we make a combo? What are our options? And sometimes we have an option to make a combo class, which is not ideal, but it's it's a better use of of resources and and just the numbers work. And sometimes that doesn't work. And so what we end up

034having to do then is potentially add a teacher. Now, sometimes as soon as we one student moves in, one student moves out. And so we're we're all that. And Dr. Wer does a wonderful job with our principles of monitoring that, working with them in terms of where you're at, what's going on. So, so capacity at a grade level and then empty seats are are two different things. While they are connected, they they are not the same thing. The second part of your question is uh why you put why did we put a uh mobile unit at Jefferson? Well, that's a great question and one that's fair. Um and so we've addressed that and we've talked about that before when we originally put the mobile unit at Jefferson several months ago. while this conversation has not

035come up until now but but it's it's a real it's a good question and part of that is because the layout and the safety mechanisms that we wanted to put in Jefferson when the board in in 21 chose to close Marian we were running Jefferson in a a particular way and as we made safety visits we made safety audits we have a team that every year goes there and audits the schools looks at the safety capacity of that what we realized at that point was the front lobby at Jefferson was a concern because every day twice a day we had classes of students going to and from the cafeteria with you know and it's not okay for any student but especially our younger K2 students were going through an an open area there uh in

036that uh unrestricted lobby that opens up to the cafeteria and that created a large safety concern on our end. So when we began looking at options to do that, the option of closing that entrance and not having students to go through there meant we needed to use some additional space at Jefferson that would enable students to walk around the back and enter the cafeteria at the back which then led to me we needed a a corridor. So which we created that in the in the library uh media center. So by doing taking some instructional space that they were using here for a safety reason, we now create needed some additional uh classroom units. So for the price you with me okay he's looking over there. I didn't know if you make sure you still with

037me. >> I'm Wait. >> I'm sorry. Teacher coming out in me. I got you know I'm not like so so I want to make sure that for so for the price of one teacher adding one teacher for a year we're able to give Jefferson extra classrooms extra restrooms and and really create a safer environment. So yes, we do have students that leave a mobile unit and come into the to the school, but in our opinion, that is a much safer option than having all of our students, especially those K2 students going to and from the classroom or to and from the cafeteria every day in an exposed open lobby area. That is our concern. So, so that in a nutshell is why we we opened that and and we felt like that was a good

038use of resource to do that. Plus the the cost of doing that still a lot cheaper than what we were paying to operate Marion every day. >> Okay. All right. We'll get back to uh get back to that Dr. Fisher. Let's just go ahead and let you stay here. >> Yes. I'm going to be here a little bit. >> Oh, this is this is our superintendent. This is Dr. Fiser, superintendent. Clear County School. >> All right. Um, I understood you say local funds. If we went over one kid, you know, and we had to hire another teacher, it was going to come out of local funds. Uh, I don't think we should figure that close. Uh because when this group made this assessment that we shut that down be maybe we should have been keeping

039our maintenance up a little better on that building as it went along and we wouldn't have ran into this issue that that building got that stores that it got. So, so you're telling me that that a building that's 75 or 80 years old, you never have to replace a roof, never have to worry about those things. You're also telling me, are you also as telling me that you don't want to pay for any local paid teachers? So, if we don't pay for any local paid teachers cut, you didn't let me finish. >> Hold on, Mr. What's your question to them? My question is then we should have planned more for more teachers and then the state would have paid for them and we wouldn't had to take that out of local funds because that is

040too close. Like in a K class that's 21 kids, >> Mr. Blandon, >> is what the state >> I I'm you're making a statement. I want you to ask them a question. My question is I'm still about not selling, not putting mobile units and keeping that school and opening it up because we transferred teachers from Marian to other schools, principals and everything, lunchroom workers and everything. The difference is is that utility bills that we're talking about uh >> again cost money. >> What is your question to them? >> I guess I've got it explained as well as I can. >> Mr. Ch, can I can I answer sort of a question in their terms about >> Yeah, I think I heard you very clear that safety was important to put them mobile units in >>

041and also like we we can't put in for more state paid teachers. If we could do that, we would never pay for a local teacher. We we would have class sizes of 10 all across the district. The state tells us how many teachers we're getting. So, we can't put in for state paid teachers. Anything above that, and we do that, we pay out of federal funds. We pay out of local funds. And and so, we're we're maximizing our state dollars with with teachers. So, there's no applying for more state teachers regardless. >> Okay. Is this a pretty good quality mobile unit that we got when a a child turns over in his desk knocks a hole through the floor? And that's supposed to be a new unit that we got. It's that's that's a question.

042It's it's like anything, Mr. Blandon. You know, the there is there are construction issues and that issue has been addressed with a company and that repair is going to be made. >> Okay. Any more questions? Mr. Blunt, >> not on that. >> Okay. Any questions from anyone else? >> Mr. Chairman, I have three questions. Uh maybe you can answer these. I don't know. This MLB, who is it? Where did they come from? Uh how were they selected? Were others involved? I guess that's more than three, but three of us are on the new on the board. We don't know anything about this. Well, >> I can answer that question. >> I may have that. The the board selected that committee at the time and it was a unanimous vote um to select them to do

043the facility assessment. They are out of Charlotte and RFP did go out. There were multiple groups that did it. Uh a recommendation was made from the operations committee and the full board approved uh the use of that company. Good. All right. Any more questions? All right. All right. This is it. I mean, you say not this time. If you got a question for them, ask them now. All right. Go ahead, Mr. B. >> All right. We We selected that group and I did vote to select that group. Uh I was on that board uh at that given time, but I have noticed a lot of things and it like on the roofs and stuff. They put out prices and those prices is not even in a ballpark for what we're getting bids for right now.

044And I was told that was an opinion. Well, is it uh this uh this building no good? Is that's opinion, too. What's your question? >> That's what was my question. >> Yeah. >> Well, if you going to put a question mark on everything I say that my question is we're going on their opinion of why that we're shutting this building down when all of those numbers was not in even in the ballpark. >> Mr. Blandon, I I'm being very courteous to you. My question was to the entire board >> for the people >> was do you have any questions for Dr. Fish or Dr. Wampler and I've let let sit up here and let you make statements. >> All right. Go ahead. >> And I didn't interrupt you. >> Okay. Go. >> Okay. So that's

045all I'm asking right now. Does any board member have a question for Dr. Fiser or Dr. Wampler? Not statements. You can make those in your public comment. >> All right. Yeah. when they put those figures together for you in that um with that group that out of Charlotte, where did they get their information from about the population of all the towns? >> They used a demographic group who did the that for them. >> Do you know if it came from the counties uh banks or did it come from each city or how did they go about getting that information? I know that they looked at, you know, all kinds of information at that time because, you know, and that mean they did look at each, you know, whatever property was to be built, wherever there

046were, uh, things coming. They looked at each of the areas within our county. So, yes, they would look at the city. They would look at permits and things like that. They looked at all of that information. >> Good, Mr. Grigg. Good. All right. Thank you. All right. Next on the agenda is public comment. Uh our rules state that we have 15 minutes for public comment with no objection. We will have to wave that tonight because we have 16 people who have signed up to speak. Uh is any objection to Mr. Chairman? You might want to make the announcement again. We had several people to come in. I don't know if they wanted to speak or what, but I saw some sat sit down. >> Okay. >> So, you might want to make that announcement again.

047>> All right. Uh, yeah. >> Can't do that once the meeting starts. >> I'll make a motion that we allow them to speak. >> All right. I'm I'm not asking for I'm just asking if there's any objection. >> Okay. >> All right. With none, >> chairman, is there still going to be a time limit? Yeah, it's a three limit time limit, but you know, you don't have to use all three minutes. So, you know, we we'll we'll stay here. We'll give you three minutes, but when you get done saying what you got to say, you don't have to stay here for three minutes. So, >> don't be like me. >> Uh, Mr. Chairman, question. Um know in the past we've done like offer the people to select a spokesman if they're all going to say

048basically the same thing the same that they could get together and select a spokesman and you get a spokesman just a little bit longer. >> Okay. Uh >> I don't you didn't turn your mic. I would just say in the past we have um maybe groups got together and and had one spokesman. Uh, I'm not going to do that tonight since we already started the meeting. But if somebody before you came up and said what you were going to say, you're more than welcome to say I agree with whatever. And that then that way we're not sitting here trying to break this up into into groups if it's if that's all right with everybody. All right. All right. The first one is Henry Weathers, I believe. Are you Mr. Weathers? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

049You I need you to come up here where I can hear the >> Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. Yes, Mr. Gentlemen. Like to make a suggestion real quick. First of all, I was under the impression that we could come here. It would be partly a discussion about keeping Marian school open. I think some people may be under that impression. I was not under the impression that it is an absolute done deal and we're only talking about the disposal of it. So if that's the case, then there's something very different that I would like to discuss or questions I'd like to ask. So I would like to first hear from the group that I believe to be in the in the lead of purchasing this and hear what that the plans they have for it.

050>> All right. At our last meeting two weeks ago, they gave they stood up and gave their >> Yes, sir. I was here but I came late because as far as I can tell this meeting and that meeting has not been publicized very well at all. >> Okay. >> I've heard I didn't know about it. My wife's online all the time. >> Yeah. Well, they're not on the agenda to speak tonight and so they're not going to be speaking tonight. They may have somebody in public comment. >> Well, it sounds like you guys have got what you want. >> Excuse me. It sounds like you guys have got what you want and you're going to do what you're going to do. So, I think a lot of people here want to talk about marrying the

051school with the overcrowding, what it was. Uh, I'll simply I guess I'll say this and I just talk as if it would could stay open. Uh, it's a shame because that school should be there. Marian School is the one school we have. It cannot be replaced and it is in the middle of a neighborhood. Neighborhoods. It ties neighborhoods together. ties people together in a place where in a time where everything's pulling us apart, internet, social media pulling apart. That's the one thing that kind of drew people together, kept them close together is a very important thing. And I've heard talk about cost and 20-minute talk here from Dr. Ms. I'm not sure what her name was, and Dr. Fischer over things that nobody in understands. um you know the cost effectiveness uh the assessment uh

052development assessment I don't know in that where it's compared to but um anyway like I said this is a done deal you guys are pretty much feels like you've rubber stamped it and I don't think a lot of people in Cleveland County or Shelby certainly know what's going on and I don't know if Shelby's interest were put below Cleveland County but Shelby is still the seat of Cleveland County so uh once again though my personal opinion I believe that our government has failed us. >> Thank you, Mr. Weathers. >> Uh, Kantisha Sherrod, I believe, is this. >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I just wanted to present today on behalf of One More, One Less. My name is Tisha Sherard and I'm the child welfare program manager over foster care here at Cleveland County DSS

053where my tenure has been 17 years. I've known Jeff and Mandy Marberger for 14 plus years and I've known them several ways as foster parents who have served diligently for our community and our children keeping them safe, providing them safe and stable housing. And they also have served as the founders of One More One Less and they have been a pillar in this community for Cleveland County. Um, and the ways in which they've done that for us is they have honored our social workers during social work appreciation. That is a field that sometimes goes unnoticed for the work that's done to keep our children safe and make sure that their needs are being met. Also, they have worked in diligent ways of making sure that families had safe and stable housing when they're trying to

054reunify with their children. A lot of resources that they have offered to this community and all of us know that Cleveland County is rural. So, we are very limited in the resources that we're able to share with our community. And I believe one more one less is definitely an ideal situation for parents who are trying to reunify with their children to get counseling services to get education on budgeting things that maybe that we take for granted because we have had the privilege of having the opportunity to have parents who've taught us those things and one less has done just that for many of our parents taught them how to save money, how to budget, how to purchase a car, how to bounce something as simple as a checkbook. And many of us do it online

055and take for granted that other people should know these things. But I want to say that they have done a fabulous job in representing our organization, their organization and what representing DSS. They've done car seat and diaper drives, wipes to ensure that we can provide for families who are in need. So in my opinion, the resources that they could provide to this community by taking over or purchase the purchase of Marian Elementary would bring many more resources that I think many people who are not familiar with could benefit from as well. So, that's all I had to say today. Thank you. >> Uh, I believe it's Gracie Shetfield. Good evening. Um, I'm speaking tonight as someone who's very deeply invested in our school system and in the Shelby zone in various ways. I'm a proud

056employee of Cleveland County Schools. I teach art over at Jefferson Elementary. I'm also the head volleyball coach at Shelby High School, uh, where I was a graduate of the class of 2017. Uh, I'm also a new homeowner. Uh, my husband and I have recently bought a house in the Shelby zone a couple streets down from Marian School. What I'd like to offer tonight is a little bit of perspective um, from inside of our school. As the art teacher, I have the unique opportunity to see every classroom, every grade level, every new face that walks through our door. And I get to see growth every single day. Not just number growth, but real tangible growth and confidence in student creativity and resilience. You can see the moment a child walks into my art room, the way

057their body relaxes. And if you create a space where they're allowed to let loose and imagine and create, it's beautiful. But that only matters if we have the space to do that. Without room to expand, without classrooms that can hold all of our students and future students, that growth is at risk. And since the start of the school year, we've welcomed new students in my class nearly every week. And with a new neighborhood going up directly behind our school, that growth isn't slowing down. And growth is exciting. It means we're doing something right. But it comes with challenges. When I was hired last year, it was under the idea that I may not have a classroom of my own. My options at the time were to roll art on a cart into the classrooms or

058I could use the multimedia stage with the caveat being that behind the curtain would be our exceptional children's program. Not a great learning environment for either group. Now, my administration has been wonderful and they saw to it that I was able to get a proper classroom, but it has left me wondering, what about next year? And I believe that moment is coming quicker than we would anticipate. You know, um it's my duty as an art educator to ensure that every child has a safe, dedicated space to learn. And once we sell that building, we lose that resource that we can't get back. We can't rebuild history. And frankly, I don't think we can repurchase land in the heart of our zone once it's gone. By keeping Marion, I believe that we preserve flexibility and make

059room for future growth. And as a district, I think we've already proven that we're capable of that. I mean, look, we are standing in a room that is beautifully um repurposed. And the character of this room speaks for itself. Some things can't be rebuilt and their value is irreplaceable. So, I'm just asking you tonight to look very closely at the true cost of selling Marion, not just in dollars, but in opportunity. I'm asking you to consider preserving a legacy that we already have so that our children don't have to learn in crowded hallways, tucked behind a curtain, or buy time in a borrowed space. Thank you. >> Thank you, [Applause] Rich. Richard McDivet. Uh good evening and uh clock started. Thank you for having this meeting. First of all, we appreciate it. Uh, my name

060is Richard McDev. My wife and I live about 50 yards uh from Marian School. I could hit it with a nine iron shot. Uh, I've worked for Gardener Webb University, did work for Garden Webb University for about 10 years as their director of marketing and vice president for marketing communications. Uh, you can probably guess looking at me that we don't have schoolage children, but we once did. Uh, and we've always heard good things about the schools in Cleveland County and Beck Cleveland and uh, Shelby. Um, I would just like to make three quick points and then ask for your help. Uh, first of all, uh, before I came here, I ran a company for many years that did a lot of commercial and residential real estate work. One thing I learned is that neighborhood schools

061are valuable, precious things. The research that I did with many developers, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, um tells me or or told those developers uh what young families wanted in new neighborhoods. And swimming clubs are great and a golf course is fabulous, but neighborhood schools. It's what everybody asks for always. And they're good for the community, too, because when uh economic development work takes place, new businesses that want to locate here, you all know this, you hear it all the time. They care about schools, quality of life, tax rates, the usual stuff. Uh neighborhood public schools are always an important tool for that. They show a dedication and commitment to the whole community. Second point, Marian School probably does need some work. I'm sure I've not been in it, but I believe it would

062be money well spent because not only is it literally a priceless location, the land is large enough to expand that school later if you need it. There's plenty of land there. I've seen it done. Uh I know the current elementary schools may have some enrollment issues. The numbers look fine. Uh the numbers from the superintendent looked good. I question the data from the uh company that you hired because that data is getting ready to be six years old and I think some new data uh might be drastically different than what you have uh seen on that. Um but there are a number of residential developments that are in the pipeline now. You probably know the numbers. I don't but I assume that you all probably do. Uh so here's the trick. Even if Marian became

063an IB school or a magnet school or something else educationally that you all decided was appropriate to put there, the fact that you could expand it only increases its value. And this may be the truth. It might not be an eitheror thing. Either keeping Marian or expanding elsewhere. It's probably going to be both. So, uh, the final thing, if Marian School is sold now, we lose control of that property. Uh, I was pleased to hear the word preservation came up a little while ago. I I'd like to know more about that. But if the new owner decides after 18 months that they've bit off more than they can chew, they can sell it and that'll bring in developers. So, uh, something good could happen there, but it probably wouldn't be a school. So, let me

064ask you, please save Marion School. Please don't sell because I believe we need it now. Thank you. All right. Mimi Connisser. >> Hi, good evening. Um, thank you for your service and the time that you dedicate to our schools. My name is Mimi Conitzer and I am an OBGYn who delivers a lot of the kiddos um in our community. Um and I appreciate the folks who um you know take care of foster kiddos because that work is invaluable. Um I'm here tonight however to advocate for my kids, Finner and Alice. There's Finner. I think Alice is on the floor drawing. Um we live walking distance from Marian the and um our kids attend Jefferson Elementary and when we moved into our neighborhood we were excited about the prospect of our kids attending Marion and being

065able to ride their bikes to school. That is until we discovered that the strangely drawn district lines had a zone for Jefferson. We would have loved to have attended and supported Marian school. Currently we are active parents at Jefferson. My husband is the sole male on the PTO as the treasurer and we donate and volunteer regularly at the school. Just this morning I paid for two kids to go to the aquarium tomorrow um because their families couldn't afford it. We love our school. Um currently Jefferson um children at Jefferson are learning in trailers to allow appropriate space for important services um in the school. And while the trailers may be a short-term solution, they're not a secure or sustainable one. These structures are more vulnerable to storms, harder to monitor, and simply not to the

066standards of security our children deserve. If you think about it, are you living currently in a trailer? No, because it's a poor investment. So, something to think about. Um, meanwhile, new developments continue to go up around Jefferson. Jefferson School District is growing, but I'm not convinced that our school will be able to keep pace. We would be planning um we should be planning solid infrastructure expansion, not adding trailers or lowquality solutions that only depreciate in value. My husband and I want to stay here, but that requires seeing visible investment from the school district in return. If our children's safety isn't prioritized or learning environments become overcrowded, we will be pressed to find other educational opportunities by moving or sending our kids to private school. Neither of us want to do this. I spent all 20

067years of my education in the public school system. We love this community and I adore being a physician here. Lastly, I have questions about the proposed sale of Marion to a small nonprofit profit. Um, that building admittedly needs renovations. However, if a small nonprofit can afford to take this on, then why can't we? Why aren't we finding ways to repurpose that space for the benefit of our own students and teachers? You may have not have any intentions of proceeding with renovations or reopening of Marian now, but why can't we keep it as an investment for the future? Thank you. >> Thank you. Brandon Bridges. Good afternoon. Thank you for allowing me to be here tonight. I'm a lifelong resident of Cleveland County and I hope I always am. I'm 34 years old. In January of

0682022, I was at the school board meeting where they reviewed the outcome of what was uh proposed for the demographic changes for Cleveland County School Systems. I was there and like many others, I said, "Man, I just don't think that's true. I don't think that's how it is." And uh you know I had a lot of questions and I've not been here in a long time to watch or anything but I've been watching online and uh I've looked a lot this this PowerPoint presentation answered a lot of the questions that I had and uh you look at it and you see hey you know they said that the population was going to decline. What we just saw right in front of us is that's actually what happened. And um you know, you you think about

069marrying school and you know, I know that a lot of people don't want to get rid of it, but are you thinking about yourself and what you want or are you thinking about what's best for the kids that are coming up? I don't have any kids and maybe I'll never have any kids, but the people that we have in these schools right now are going to be the people that we have to work and live with for the rest of our lives. And I think that they deserve the best quality education that they can get. You know, a lot of people ask questions about this nonprofit organization that the Cleveland County School Board is intended to potentially sell the uh property to. And uh you know, I think about not too long ago the Central

070School Central School uh it went up for sale and it went up for open bid and someone that a lot of people within the community did not like for specific reasons was able to purchase that property. And I just ask you, you know, what do you think about that? you know, if it goes up for open bid and it goes to somebody that you don't like and wants to go for something that you know what if it's going to become apartments, you know, what what's going to happen with that? You know, I look at reasons to try to find to criticize the school board for this, which I've done many times in the past and I think they've answered all the questions. I think that they've done their due diligence and I don't think that

071there's any way that anybody could criticize this specific situation in regards to what they're going to want to do. I think they've got the best interest of our Cleveland County residents at heart and I fully support what they're going to do and I thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. Thank you, Mr. Bridges. Miss Elizabeth, honored to pass that along. My name is Elizabeth Schwepy and I am a lifelong advocate for traditional public education and a product of this community. One I grew up in, returned to and continue to invest in. This is my 21st year in education and my 17th with Cleveland County Schools where I've had the privilege of teaching at Jefferson James Love and Marian Elementary. Additionally, Marian is at the heart of my neighborhood where four generations of our family

072have lived. Tonight, I'm asking you to pause discussions about the sale of Marian School until a transparent long range facilities plan is developed and shared openly with the public. If you plow ahead, we lose a community anchor and a campus that can meet future needs. Right now, the enrollment projections being used do not reflect the real growth happening in our community. Without accurate data data, it's unconscionable to make irreversible decisions about a valuable property that should be serving a diverse cross-section of our community. Families with young children are moving in. Homes and local businesses like Hive and Belvadier Station have been restored and are thriving. And our existing elementary schools are overcrowded. Teachers are making do with every corner of space. Selling a usable school in a premium location now makes no sense. There's been

073no open discussion of Marian's facility. No balanced discussion about pros and cons of closing and selling a gym of a school and a location in a walkable historic neighborhood. Families, teachers, and taxpayers deserve transparency and a voice in the process. The space utilization data is misleading. For example, listing Jefferson as 75% full without accounting for staff working with children in hallways and in tiny spaces and the addition of our mobile classrooms disorts the reality. According to state caps, can we technically squeeze 117 more little ones into our building and mobile classrooms? Yes. But overcrowded classrooms reduce effectiveness, put strains on teachers, limits engagement, and is detrimental overall. The cost to hold on to Marian is minimal compared to what Cleveland County schools, our neighborhood, and our future leaders who should be walking to and from

074their neighborhood school each day leaves forever if you sell. Keeping the property until there's a thoughtful public plan isn't just reasonable, it's responsible. Disposing of Marion now without a transparent Longreach plan undermines public trust and weakens confidence in our traditional public schools. to take action tonight other than to table or to approve the sale of a plan before its formulated cause and to question the board's judgment. I urge you to pause to work with the community to build a clear, transparent plan for the future of all of our local elementary schools in the Shelby zone. Anything less is a disservice to the families, educators, and students that you are elected to represent. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss SW. Jenny Ross. Hello. Uh, I spoke last meeting, but I wanted to take a moment to

075fully introduce myself. I'm Jenny Ross, a Shelby native. I graduated from Crest High School, and I'm currently mom to an Elizabeth Panther. Um, next year I have a niece and nephew entering the um, Crest and Kings Mountain zones, respectively. My parents are small business owners here. In short, I'm invested in this community and the people who live here. I am once again asking for a plan to be put in place regarding capacity in our Shelby's own elementary schools prior to divesting Marian School. The presentation tonight added some 200 seats to the capacity numbers provided in the NPS study, but it doesn't add up. At Jefferson, there are 27 classrooms with absolutely no room for specials, EC, or AIG. That puts you at an average of 19 children per classroom, which is above the average that

076you're allowed to have for kindergarten and third grade, if I need to spell that out. Uh Elizabeth and Jefferson, you have kids um learning in portable units. It doesn't add up. James Love has music and art on carts already and speech therapy happening in utility closets. It doesn't add up. Further, the growth numbers or the decrease numbers rather quoted in the presentation were districtwide. But the MPS study did predict that the Shelby zone would increase and grow. And they did predict growth in our elementary schools by 2020 2025 2026. They present predicted that the Shelby zone would grow 3.9%. In fact, as of this year, Shelby elementary enrollment has increased 10.4%. 10.4. Our residential building permit applications have increased 300% in the past five years. Shelby zone is going to continue growing. We need a

077plan. From the 2020 to 2023 ACS data, the 0 to9 age range in Shelby grew 700 children. We need a plan. If you follow through with this resolution, we will be both without a plan and without land or property. Lastly, our school system is not charged with doing the bare minimum. You're not charged with shoving as many children into a school as possible while sacrificing enrichment like art and music, reasonable lunchtimes, playground access. You're not charged with saving every single scent possible. But in the interest of fiduciary responsibility, Marian should go to a bidding process to ensure that we can get the maximum amount for that school if that's your choice. It is not the board's job to determine if this organization is financially solvent, but it should matter to you that the chance of

078them needing to resale is high and they would likely take the profit that should be due to CCS and our students. >> I will show my work if you would like and I hope that you ask to see the work before you accept what you've been told. Thank you for your time. [Applause] Claire Magion. I emailed you all my thoughts already and I want to just thank Mr. Blandon and Mr. Bridges, Mr. Brigg and Mr. Leadford for getting back to me. And I hear that Mr. Fisher, you would have. You're just under the weather. But since I don't know if the rest of you read what I sent, I'll ask my questions again. What's the plan to deal with the current and future capacity issues? Much as everybody else has asked, we haven't seen the

079plan yet. Numbers can be reworked as Jenny showed us in so many ways so that what people want them to say, they say that context for those numbers is everything. Have each of you personally sat down in multiple classrooms at Elizabeth, James, Love, and Jefferson? In those experiences, did you personally feel there was more than enough physical space to add more students? Was there flex space somewhere in the building to accommodate the everanging needs of schools? Exactly how is the calculation done that decides when a trailer can be added? Who has to ask for it? How are the trailers priced out? How many trailers does the board intend to lease before a brickandmortar option can be considered? The new trailer at Jefferson cost taxpayers nearly $400,000 for its 5-year lease. Is the cost going to

080go up dramatically in 2030, just like all the other costs seem to be going up? Because CCS leases this space, who's responsible for doing repairs to the floors that are in the trailers as we speak right now? Does everyone here tonight know how many multiple holes are in those trailer floors? And they're just caused from normal wear and tear student use, not kids being crazy or wild. What's going on with the students while those holes are being fixed? We've waited on movement for this school for years. And in that time, where is the plan that's been you've been must be working on to prove that Shelby students are going to be better off if Marian disappears? Is expansion only going to be a problem for young Shelbyzone students or will you redistrict the whole county

081so that the whole county shares the burden? In a countywide school system, it would be shortsighted to let one zone tank to benefit the others. If Marian had been properly redistricted years ago, the school wouldn't have been ignored, and we likely wouldn't even be having this conversation. To sell Thank you. to sell Marian to any buyer, even a worthy one, when no plan for the future has been shared yet. It's unfair to the folks who work so hard to make Cleveland County great. I pray you resist the temptation to make pennywise but pound foolish decisions. I pray you understand how perceptions of schools have ripple effects on everyone. I pray you care about students in zones you don't live in. Above all, I care about you. I pray that you care about the people, both

082young and old, of this county. Thank you, [Applause] >> Holly. Nodan. Good evening. My name is Holly Nodine and this little girl beside of me is Emma Nodine. I want to share about our experience with one more one less from the foster care side. In December of 2019, Iba was placed in our care. She was just nine weeks old. The day that she came to live with us, we had hours to prepare for a newborn that would soon be joining our family. She showed up to our home with one single Walmart bag with 10 diapers, two sleepers, two bibs, and one can of formula, which believe it or not is more than what most children come into care with initially. I made a frantic Facebook post asking if any of our friends had any basics

083that we could borrow, like a bassinet where she could sleep or maybe a swing. I got a message from Mandy at One More One Less inviting me to come get anything I needed for Emma in the foster care closet that they provide for any foster care family in our community. A few years later, we were once again approached by One More One Less asking if we would be interested in a laundry service that they started. Their goal simple, to give foster families more intentional time to invest in the children in their homes. Week after week since then, a sweet couple has come to our home, picked up our laundry, washed, dried, and folded it, and returned it the same day. In 2021, Emma's birth parents signed over custody to us, and in 2022, they were

084ready to sign over their rights. They knew Emma was in a home where she would be loved and cared for. Because DSS had closed the case against them when they signed over custody, we would have absolutely no financial support to be able to adopt Emma from DSS or any other government agency. We got a quote from a couple attorneys and it was a large number and truly it felt impossible to make this adoption happen. I remember asking Mandy if she could just pray that God would provide a way for us to adopt Emma. A few days later, one more one less once again approached us. a family in your community. They said that a generous donor had given them funds to make adoptions happen within our community. They wanted us to use those funds to

085adopt Emma. I will never forget the tears that streamed down our faces that day. And in December of 2023, we finally had our day in court and Emma became Emma Nodine officially. I pray that as you look at Emma's face today, you will know that she represents countless of faces, countless faces of other children and families in our county and beyond that have benefited from One More, One Less and the work that they do, not just in foster care and adoption, but also in the reunification and preservations of the families in our community. They truly do serve this community well, and I have no doubt that they would be even more of a benefit to our community if allowed to purchase this property. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, [Applause] >> Brian Gleon.

086>> If it remains closed, I'm speaking concerning one more one less project acquiring the Marian school property. I am Brian Glisten. Uh, I led the congregation of Pleasant City Church, which has an average of weekly attendance of,50 people for the last 26 years until my retirement this past August. I've seen the one more, one less, one more, one less project at work since 2019 when our church embraced its vision and partnered with it. The challenge for the people of our church to get involved in the lives for foster care children and families was received and created a culture within our church of love and support for what many would call the least of these. Now to think that that culture of love and support could be embraced by this community and other communities in our

087state really excites me after seeing the possibility on a small scale of what could happen within our church family. To think that Shelby, North Carolina could impact the state by training others in other communities to care for foster families through the One More, One Less Project makes me proud of the possibilities of what could go on throughout our state. Also, the idea of helping biological parents re reunify with their children is a beautiful picture of a community that works together for the best for children and their families. As we at Pleasant City Church embrace the one more one less project, we along with many others in our community including other partner church partnering churches would love to see them acquire Marion School as a place where love, support, encouragement, counsel and training can be given

088to those in our community who need it most. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mr. Blake. Tommy Tedar. >> Good evening. My name is Tommy Tedar and live on Forest Hill Drive. I no longer have kids in the Shelby City School System, Cleveland County school system. Now, I'm a product of the Shelby City School System. Uh, education is an interest that I have and it's something that we need and it's the lifeblood of any community. After the last meeting and reviewing the agenda for tonight, I'm still kind of unsure of what the board is deciding. I left the last meeting under the impression that this would be a meeting with your constituents for their input, thoughts, and questions, and we would hear your responses and thoughts. Uh chairman, you did offer those items

089tonight in many details. So that is very much appreciated. It's much more than what we had last time. Um during the last meeting, I never heard if the proposal from one more one less was a sale of the pro property or a transfer of the property. If it was a transfer, if it was a sale, I didn't hear a number. With the expected increase of student enrollments due to the addition of hundreds of new homes being built in and around the Shelby city limits, additional classroom space has to be a consideration, does it not? Even with the data that's offered, new homes and new neighborhoods, I think will be more than.34. When you have a thousand new homes going in north, excuse me, west of Shelby, 300 behind Marian school, excuse me, Jefferson School, I

090think those numbers are a little bit skewed. Maybe these won't students wouldn't be in the Shelby district, Shelby zone. That just means you're going to overcrowd Borland Springs. So, that's my kind of my question. I read over the assessment of the Marian school facility. While I won't disagree with any of the needed improvements, there is no mention of the cost of these improvements. Do you have a cost estimation for renovations to bring Marian back online to accommodate the eventual and certain enrollment increases? Do you have a projection for a new school and what its cost would be? And how do these compare? These are questions and answers your constituents need to hear. so we can understand where we are. I look forward to hearing your responses. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Martha Knobblet. I'm

091Martha Noble. I live across the street from Marian school and I asked myself this one question. What is the best decision for the students? That should be our number one priority. Is it good to have students in trailers? No, I definitely think not. I also heard about the floor falling in at Jefferson. Also, I've heard about students that leave the trailers to go to wherever and on their return trip have a hard time getting in, they stand out and knock on the doors, but they're not heard. That is a safety concern. It is, is it good to have overcrowded classrooms? Definitely not. The more students, the less time there is for one-on-one, and there's not as much accomplished. I taught school. I know what extra bodies in a classroom are like. I have heard, and

092it may be a rumor, but I have heard that there's a possibility of an addition to Jefferson. Well, if that's the case, to me, that's like putting a band-aid on the situation because there are new houses being built. And um in all likelihood, you're going to have even more students coming towards Jefferson because of the condition, the location of these new developments. Plus, how much would that cost? There are two new housing developments being built. One of them is Willow Estates, which is off of White Road. It's behind Jefferson. There are 78 single family homes being built and 168 town homes for a total of 246 homes. down the road off off of 150 up from where Cecil Burton is, there is an additional subdivision called Maple Glenn. There are 60 new homes being built

093there for a total of 300 homes. So, an excuse not to open Marian because of decline in stu in students is is no reason. I have a question. I want to know what happens when this property is sold and whoever buys it is not able to keep it and has to sell it. Are we not in the same situation we're in right now? We start all over again. Who's going to purchase it? We don't know. It's just not fun living in that neighborhood and having that situation. And what is going to happen to my neighborhood? What kind of property values are going to decline? It's a scary situation. Um, and it really could cost homeowners a lot of money. You are the board and you're the one that's going to make this decision. You have

094three elementary schools with overcrowded conditions and Marian school is sitting there empty with over 25 classrooms. The logical solution to me is to open Marion back up. I think we all need to think about what is really the tr the best thing for the student. Marian needs to remain a school. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. >> Rick Bolan. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. >> Gileian Russell. >> Or is it Did I say that right or is it look like a G? I'm sorry. What is your first name, ma'am? >> Jillian Russell. >> Oh, Jillian. Okay. >> Yes. It's okay. It's pronounced both ways. I >> I apologize, ma'am. >> No worries. Um, hi. My name is Jillian Russell. I am not a long longtime member of Shelby. I'm actually a transplant from Texas. I have

095lived in Shelby for I think it's about 14 years now. My daughter is a Jefferson V. We live across the street from Marian. It was my thought that we'd be able to walk her to school on her first day of kindergarten, but then we realized the zones were different. Uh so instead what we have done is given our time and money to ensure that Marian is the best unofficial dog park in Shelby. Um we walk our dogs there. A lot of people do. Um it's also a place where the community comes and we have blog parties and um it's the start of the light bulb dash every year. I don't know if y'all know the light bulb dash, but it's a it's a wonderful fundraiser for feeding kids Cleveland County. Um, in my time at

096Shelby, the children of Cleveland County have become very important to me. Um, I was privileged to serve as a GAL guardian athlete for the children of Cleveland County for a limited number of years until my job demanded that I do a little bit more and become a manager. Um, so yay me. But I uh I have invested a lot of time in this county. Um, we are members of uh the PTO at Jefferson. And we are also volunteer parents and we care very deeply about these children. And while I am thrilled that a foster care group is interested in this property, I have reservations about the sale of this school. Um, my child goes to Jefferson, see what the classroom conditions are like, talk with other parents. Um, I was very thrilled to have uh

097one of my guardian adm kids go to an elementary school in Shelby, which I won't uh I won't say, but they just grew by leaps and bounds. It was so amazing to watch. But, um, I mention it because I've seen the power of what these schools can do, and I really would hope that you would pause. Please consider the growth of our community. Please consider the needs of our children at the macro level in the Shelby zone. And please do not sell this school at this time. Please take a stop and reassess and consider the growth that Shelby is experiencing. And then give us a plan for what you want to do. Before we discuss anything else, I think it is fair that the community has a chance to see what you want to do

098in the future and what that vision looks like and have an opportunity to express their feelings about it. Thank you for your time and thank you for your service. >> Thank you. Kale me. >> Good evening. Um I'm Kel Me, lifelong resident of Cleveland County. Um past nine years I've served as a volunteer professional engineer member for our county board of health and public health board where I've gotten to see a lot of the uh needs that that exist in our county and I'm just here in support of one less project. I would like to read a letter for you tonight from uh Kevin Woodall and the guardian at itum program. Kevin wasn't able to join but if you would let me share his letter I'd appreciate that. One more one less project is a

099local faith-based nonprofit whose goal is to increase local church awareness and involvement in foster care, reunification of families and adoptions. They help recruit new foster families and also provide resources to families working toward reunification in social and court in the social services court system. Uh as advocates for foster children, guardians at Alidum have benefited from one less project. Um they've helped with the recruitment of new volunteers. Um me mentioning the needs of in their presentations of foster fostering system. They've invited guarding adidum staff to attend presentations with the church activities and provide information to increase awareness. In 2023, one more one less project provided snacks for all the year's continuing education classes for volunteers and a wonderful Christmas party celebrating our volunteers. At least two families the guardians have worked with have benefited from the

100not far from home program which provided transitional space and support for families that were working toward reunification. At times volunteers will reach out to one more one less project regarding the needs of the child that may fall outside the scope of resources of the local DSS and one more one less project is a great community partner to the foster care system. Again that's from Kevin Woodall who's our district administrator uh for the Cleveland County guardian at light program. Thank you for your consideration and appreciate your service. >> Thank you. >> All right. At this time, uh, we'll open up our board comments. >> You want to go first, M. >> Well, I'd like to say one thing. Basically, I went to North Shelby today. uh they had a uh pep rally uh for their kids

101down the Jordan down there and I tell you it was awesome. So that lasted about an hour. Uh the next thing that couldn't be a better that does for this community a better organization. I will say that right now that I would be behind them 100%. But we got a piece of property that's paid for and the growth here. I I want our people to check with the planning and zoning and the building uh and everything. See what the economic development says, what's coming into this county. I hate to get rid of something and we're going to need it a year or two years down the road. It's going to happen. >> Uh, without a shadow of a doubt, it's going to happen. Jefferson, it don't matter how much we add on over there, but

102we going to run out of property over there, and you ain't got enough room to add on. As simple as that. You might add five classrooms, but with all the building that's going on in this county and this city, we need to make sure that we're making the right decisions. and and as I've heard several times, put a plan together to make sure that our plan is right, not what we went on 20 in 21 for one simple reason. They wasn't hardly one of those houses being built in 21. And now they going up everywhere. Matter of fact, they've been four built down at um in the last week. The walls has went up down at Pinnacle in front of Pinnacle School. They have four went up in the last week and there no way

103that 180 is going to be able to handle all that traffic with that roundabout out there. There no way if that growth keeps going there. We've got to think about our roads, the traffic at Jefferson. We got to think about that in the whole county, not just not uh not just right here at this office. Y'all probably had to hunt for a place to park here tonight for as many came. We've got to consider the parking just as much as as that. But our students should be our number one goal in this county. And I'm working for every taxpayer. But this group that's interested if if we were going to do well, I can't answer. I'm just one person. But this is a fantastic group. I know most of them. And there that is as

104good of organization there is in Cleveland County period of what they do for that really ne child that is needing a mom and daddy that a lot of children don't have in this county or any of the other counties. So but that land is paid for. How much are we going to get out of it? What is that going to do if we have to purchase another piece of property to build a school on? It won't be a drop in the bucket. I guess I need to shut up so somebody else can talk. But you getting ready to raise your hand. Go ahead. Uh, so I'll go ahead make a couple of comments and I'll save I if uh we have a a motion and a and a second for the for this resolution. I'll

105save comments for that. Uh I do want to I want to point out first uh I'm from upper Cleveland County. I'm about the sixth generation that lived in upper Cleveland County. And there's a school in up a couple of schools in upper Cleveland County. There's one not far from my house called Bailwood. And it's and it's been clo it closed I don't know 60 years ago. And I guarantee there was a lot of people in Bellewood because that was the only school in that whole vicinity. I guarantee is a whole lot of people hated to see Bellewood go as a school. Well, now it's a town center and that's where everybody in Bellewood goes together. So, the school was repurposed. Now, Bailwood didn't have any taxes and and they and they and some of the

106school failed in fell into disrepair and was and was knocked down. But there's still a gym there, still a lunchroom there. Now, now they've added a five cent a five cent tax just to maintain the rest of the school. So, it's still being used. There's another school called Pedmont that's over toward Lndale. A lot of pe my dad was went to Pedmont. A lot of people wish Pedmont was still there, but you know, and I'm not going to throw a lot of numbers. The fir the first speaker up here said, "We throw a lot of numbers at you that people don't understand." And that told me right there, it doesn't matter about students, how many students is in a classroom. It doesn't matter about the the budgets because it doesn't matter about numbers. It matters

107about emotions. And I understand emotions are high. I understand it. I don't have a dog in the fight. Listen, I didn't even know where Marian school was until I beca became a board member. >> No. So, so after I became a board member now, I then right away I knew where Marian school was and knew a lot about the history and really really took under consideration whether Marian and Graham was still viable. But the reason why I said that is because we can throw, listen, if any of you want to donate about $4 million to the school system, we can we can open up Marion and Graham and we can put 10, 20, 30 students in there and and and make class sizes just ridiculously small. >> No. No, but that's about what it take

108to open it back up. >> M Mr. We're I don't want to get about this is so okay I I'll finish here to say so here here's I will I'm going to sincerely from the bottom of my heart I'm going to sincerely from the bottom of my heart apologize to everybody that walked up to that microphone and thought that we were going to talk about reopening Mariam. That decision came based on a a PL plan that came from a group that that was and it was decided years ago. The it that that's gone. So So here's the deal. This whole board, well, the majority of this board, I think, I think has an idea that a uh what what I believe is a way to preserve Marian school. >> Not I'm not answering you. >>

109You're out of order, sir. So, so at this point at this point the the choice is not whether to open Marion or not. The choice is do we want to sell it and and and one gentleman came up and said he didn't hear a price. Well, that's part of the negotiation. Okay. But do we sell it to a group that does good work in our community that has a a good purpose and part of this negotiation? It goes through the heritage organization which will ensure it stays a school. It stays in good condition and if they don't want to use it, it can't be destroyed. So this organization can can make use that put children in it. It may not be a school, but they're going to put children in into the facility. Or do

110we do we try to do more surveys? You know, I can look up online where NC the NC Office of State and Bundage Management forecasts the in the growth of Cleveland County between 2025 and 2030. They estimate it at 3,000 people. Now, one gentleman said 1300 houses. Well, we it was put out out of 1300 houses, you put 20 students into a school. That's not going to justify o reopening a school even if it was possible. So, this group opens a school, it gets maintained as a school, and then we don't lose it. If it goes to auction, that's when anybody can buy it and then they can do whatever they want to according to the zoning laws. And I think the zoning laws right now say you can put 10 houses per acre. So

111I for one want to make it like my hometown of Bellewood. Even though it's not going to be a school, it'll be a facility that is still the schoolhouse building that is used for good good purpose. So, I I sincerely apologize that y'all came here under false pretenses. You've been misled. U Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Sp. Uh I don't know. >> Anybody else? I'm Ronnie Grigg. Thank y'all for coming tonight. Um, I guess y'all seen all the highway construction out here on the highway. Um, $530 million worth of highway being built right now through Cleveland County. And if you look it up, they're not building it just to have a highway. They're building it because we are growing. Um, I live over near Pinnacle and I've been over there for about a year

112and a half now. And my neighborhood has turned into nothing more than a driveway for the people that are tired of the crowds on the highway. There's going to be 432 houses built in that area. All of them, if you go over there and look, they're three and four bedroomedroom homes. Now, I don't know about you guys out there, but I had four daughters. I think some of the board members might have a couple of kids, too. So, if we want to go by numbers, you know, let's let's look up real numbers. Let's don't just come up and say, "Well, it's going to be uh one out of five has a kid in it." Because I don't think that's right. Because if it was, why would they be building houses that are three and four

113bedroomedroom houses all over Cleveland County? It's not just in my neighborhood. There's thousands of houses all over Cleveland County right now that are being built. Keeping um Marian, you know, we talk about it being an old school, but I don't know of one old school that has a different version of education. I don't think a new school is going to teach you any better than an old school. I think that what we need to look at is what is it going to cost us if we have to go to a new school in the future. We're already having a crunch with our taxes in Cleveland County now. So, in my opinion, that group is a great group, but I have to look out for what I'm doing in Cleveland County, >> the whole county. [Applause]

114Anybody else? Mr. Leford, if nobody else, I'll speak. Sure. Number one, I'll speak that the group that made the decision as far as closing Graham and Marian, I think it was asine to do that. Number two, you look at old schools. I just got through celebrating. I'm from the upper end of the county, the big metropolitan area of Kazer as far as that goes. And we just celebrated up there a school that was a hundred years old. My grandfather, as a matter of fact, was the one of the first chairman of whenever they didn't have a local board of education like we did, they had a school board. And each school had a board. And so I know what board I know what education means. I had a wife that taught first grade for 34

115years. I had children that went through that. I've got grandchildren that have gone through Cleveland County schools. One thing that I will say this, the group that's looking to purchase this thing as far as as adoption, I know what adoption is. My in-laws raised children for adoption for a number of years. When I was dating my wife, whenever I went in, she had two small uh girls that were there for adoption. I've got a huge uh picture frame full of kids that are up for adoption. When I ran for the board of education, and I've been on the board more than any of these other gentlemen, just about all of them put together. But when I ran for the board of education, I said that I'm running for the kids of Cleveland County school system.

116I don't care what school they're in. As long as they're child, as long as they're school age, I'm going to v I'm going to do my best to do the what I can for those kids. I'm going to do my best to do what I can for those teachers that are teaching those children in these schools. I cannot see eliminating property that we have got and that is so paid for to anybody just to get rid of it. I think that we can take money renovate Marian School, have it available whenever a time needs the same as any other organization can do as far as uh for their purpose. That said, I yield to whoever wishes to speak. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Miss Sherman. >> Okay. First of all, I'd like to thank every single

117person that came out tonight, regardless of your stance. Um, the the thing I was thinking about listening to everyone, and it's a good thing, is everybody that spoke is passionate about children and education and our children in Cleveland County. And I wanted to thank you for that. And um also I want to thank one more one less for what you do. I want to thank the Marian community and for you coming out and what you've always done for our children. So I really appreciate it. I know it might have been long but it's worth it because I enjoyed hearing everyone speak. Thank you. >> You is everybody. [Applause] All right. I was going to save this, but I'm I'm going to go ahead and do it now before we go into close session. And I'm

118just going to You may not like me after you leave here, but I hope we still can be friends. And I hope you listen. Please listen to my logic for what I'm about to say. Back in 2021, we hired this company. I don't know how much we paid them, but I read the minutes. It said not to exceed $300,000. So, let's just assume we paid $300,000 for this agency to come in. And I went this weekend and I reviewed the plan. The these folks have been in business since 1950. They come highly, highly, highly recommended. They gave us a space utilization report, an enrollment projection, a demographic report, a facility assessment. I was on the board that I voted yes to shut down Marian. I want to read some stuff. I went back and wonder

119jog my memory about why I decided to do that. One of the things they put in their demographic study was the local 18 to 24 year old population continues to leave the district going to a college or moving to other urbanized areas. This population group accounts for the largest segment of the district's out migration flow and will increase will increase steadily over the last 10 years. The primary factors causing the district's enrollment to decrease over the next 10 years is empty nest households. The relatively low number of elderly housing units turning over coupled with a flat rate of in migration of young families. In other words, when we have kids graduate from high school in this county, they leave and they don't come back. and those who are coming in are the older population. The

120median age for the district population will increase from 42 years of age to 43.1 by the year 2030. Even if the district continues to have some amount of annual new housing unit construction over the next 10 years, the rate, magnitude, and price of existing home sales will become the increasingly dominant factor affecting the amount of population and enrollment change. As I was looking over that, I thought, okay, I I get why I did what I did now. And that school has been sitting still for two and a half years. We've been paying $13,000 a year just to let it sit over there for utilities. In my opinion, that's waste. That's that's your money that we're spending. $13,000 >> department. Ma'am. Yep. Okay. All right. when this opportunity came up to sell it. Well, let me

121go back. The phone calls I got when we decided to close it is what's going to happen to our neighborhood? What's going to happen to our neighborhood? Who's going to buy it? Who's going to do whatever? We're getting ready to go into a close session to talk with our attorney about selling this to Preservation North Carolina, who will sell it to oneonone. That way it can never change. That school will have to stay there 101. Can't sell it. I like that because that means it don't get demolished and whatever comes in. If we pass up this opportunity, five years from now, this uh study was correct and we have to go to the open bid process. We sell it to the highest bidder and that's it. and I don't know what's coming. So, if they're

122right, which they've been pretty right. They said that we would lose 125,000 kids. I mean, excuse me, 125 kids and we've lost 162. Uh, and here's the other thing I really want to talk about. In 2022 23 school year, inflation hit us hard. Hit us hard. I remember going to stop speak with Dr. Fischer in one of the rooms over there and there's two ladies across the room and I asked him I said what are they doing over there? He said they're over there trying to figure out how to conserve toilet paper that our budget had been depleted basically. I was the finance chair during that time and I went with uh the superintendent and the chair at that time and I I went and met with the county commissioner chair and the county manager.

123I said please please give us another million dollars. I told him I said we've already eliminated 90 positions through attrition. That's not big news because it didn't affect anybody losing a job. through attrition we eliminated over almost 100 I believe it's 97 positions that we eliminated and we was looking at everything everything to look at to decrease they gave us a million dollars to keep us afloat I went back this last year I said we're going to have to do some major cuts if we inflation is killed when stuff's went up 20 to 30% that's just the cost of doing business so we had we needed Another me just to maintain what we got. Just to maintain what we got. As you saw in the presentation, the utilities alone with that school occupied is $70,000.

124As the superintendent spoke, the state has said, "We're all the teachers you're getting." So, where would the teachers, the teachers assistants, the custodians, the um cafeteria workers, where would that money come from if we were to decide today to open Marian School back? We do not have tax authority, none whatsoever. I want to say I appreciate the county giving us another million dollars over the last two years. I really do. It has kept us from having to cut But again, as I say, if we opened that school tomorrow, we don't have the money. I will say this, as far as future plans, I am for brick and mortar. I am I'm not for no more of these mobile units. Um, James Love sits on 34 acres of land. Jefferson sits on 15 acres of land,

125and Elizabeth sets on 11 acres of land. my opinion I think we could add a wing to a school a lot cheaper than we could restruct I'm going to say this too every meeting we go to in our u safety and uh operations we get a a uh capital project report these are things that need to be fixed that report as of today is 129 million of what we need to fix with our schools. Now, now the county gives us 1.5 a year. You average that out, it's going to take us 88 years to fix the problems that we have in our school system right now. 88 years. Now, if we want to add Marion, which again, I'm just giving you facts, okay? I'm I I'm I'm not, you know, trying to, you know, everybody

126says you can throw numbers here or there, but if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. So, uh, and again, things that I took into consideration, we have 1,623 kids in this county right now being homeschooled. We have 155 in Cleveland Virtual Innovation. We have 1,200 in Pinnacle. There's 1,400 in Thomas Jefferson. I know all those Thomas Jeffersons aren't Cleveland County kids. I know that. But we have well over 20% of our students right now not in public schools. Not in public schools. >> well, the bottom line is, as I said before, we could vote to open up school tomorrow, but we can't hire a teacher. If someone would tell me how to figure that out, I would change my mind. But I just wanted everybody to know where I stood and

127why I stood the way I went. >> All right. >> So, >> well, I I'm not getting into a back and forth, but we have to look at the districtwide. We have to look at districtwide. We have 129 million right now. We need to fix stuff. Kings Mountain, Burns, Crest districts, Shelby districts. 129 million right now. That's with open schools. I tell y'all this not I know you're not going to like, but I just wanted you to hear my logic for the decision. I'm going to be voting to sell this to this group right here to try to salvage the community over there from ending up with something 5 10 years down the road that they don't want in their community. And with that, I'll entertain a motion to go into close session. >> Motion

128have a motion by Mr. B and a second by Mr. Bridges. All those in favor? >> Don't need to read it. >> Oh, yeah. >> I've got to read first. >> Sorry. Read the statute, please. Pursuant to general statute 143-318.11 subsection A3, the chair or we will enter into close session to consult with the attorney about the property at Marian School. >> All right, doc. Mr. Second for Mr. Sperling. All those in favor? All right, that's non zero. Thank y'all for coming again.