001All right. Good afternoon everyone. It is 3:30 on the dot and we have a long agenda. Not this agenda but our next board agenda. So I'm going to call our work session to order and welcome this policy Dr. Crane, Dr. Robinson to discuss policy 6800 student activities. So bringing policy 6800 student activities to you today. This is our existing policy. It resides in what we call the old manual but it is the policy that addresses student activities and includes the language regarding outside agencies or groups establishing and sponsoring clubs and organizations on campus. The revision that we are recommending for policy is very minor and it is in the last paragraph um at the very end of the policy. And I'll read that section and specify what we added. Clubs and organizations established and sponsored
002by outside agencies or groups shall not be considered school clubs and shall not function on school grounds or during the school day unless authorized by the principal. And we have added or we recommend adding as a revision as specified in 6800 R&P. Uh Ms. Posey is going to walk us through that R&P. Um it is a new section C which is which addresses how this will happen. Um we have placed the policy revision on the action agenda tonight and we'll request a waiver of second reading so that this revision is effective well as of tonight should the board vote for it. Posey? All right. Thank you very much. Um so the 6800 R&P student activities uh we revised the uh purpose statement so that you can see that we've incorporated in there are um outside
003organizations or groups. Uh we provided a little uh definition chart in there about what is a student activity what is an outside organization or group and then when we were here last in October we talked about incorporating the memorandum of agreement which would help cover the activities that the student organization or group would be provided and it would also allow us that layer of insurance protection with the certificate of insurance. And so that's really what we're bringing forward today as a recommendation in our RMP. So, in section C, you'll see a section on clubs and organizations established and sponsored by outside agencies or groups. And this section really covers the um the principal still must approve the activity. So, to be a school-related activity, the principal needs to uh approve that activity. Uh so, it
004does provide in here that no outside organization or group may provide student activities without the prior written approval of the school principal. And then in determining whether or not to approve uh a proposed activity, the principal shall consider, and this is really about um the safety of our students, um and also alignment with uh instructional or educational mission of the school or district. Um student safety and supervision, compliance with district policies and regulations, and operational feasibility, scheduling considerations. So, that kind of just helps give some guiding um principles. Thank you. I'm sorry. Oh, thanks, boss. Was there a question? Okay. I had to sneeze. Um I got you. Sorry. Uh the memorandum uh agreement, um this is the board-approved template that we currently have established. Um the board attorneys uh help us revise those agreements,
005but a memorandum of agreement would cover what is the purpose, what is being provided, what's the responsibility of the school system, what's the responsibility of the um outside organization or group. It would also set the requirements related to interactions with our students. So, we have the required uh background checks, so if they are going to be in a uh one-on-one or even in a group setting with our students, we do require the criminal background checks, sexual offender registry, and any other appropriate screening as required by law. We also have the insurance requirements where the general liability would be on the outside organization or group as well as they must carry that general liability. Um they must carry workers compensation if it's applicable under the law as well as other depending on what type of services
006this group is providing. Um we do have requirements for sexual molestation and abuse coverage and then any additional insurance required as we have in our risk management guidelines or applicable by um that law. We have termination clauses as well if parties do not follow uh the MOA. And then we have a process for review of the MOA to make sure that we have a full scope of not only the school principal, the area superintendent, uh the chief officer would be our uh chief of staff, uh risk management, and the finance officer, and of course the uh provider must agree to all of those terms and conditions. All right. Would you like me to continue going through these or have you all had an opportunity to review and do you have some questions? I'm not sure.
007Um how much I guess I'll wait for the question. Yeah, there's no time for questions. Okay. All right. Um so we also have uh implementation and ongoing compliance. Uh so basically once that MOA uh MOA is executed, the responsibilities of both parties in maintaining um the agreed upon terms in the MOA. And then as I mentioned, we have an enforcement. So anyone who uh fails uh to comply with the uh the terms, uh there could be immediate suspension or termination of the activity, um we could revoke permission for that outside organization or group to do this to conduct business on the school system, and then additionally corrective actions as permitted by policy or law. Thank you, Ms. Posey. I saw um I have a comment, but I'll wait until we go around. I saw Dr.
008Jewel, Ms. Scofield, and then Ms. Wright. Um what happens if a principal um approves an organization to come in that other principals have not? Like if if I'm thinking of like Turning Point USA and and those school the schools who have allowed it versus not, what happens in those situations? So, as shared with you that there's a series of individuals. So, a principal might approve the activity, but when entering into the MOA, there would be several individuals within the organization that approve that. So, item 363, uh you have the school principal is basically initiating it. So, they've approved it and they've entered into an MOA and it goes through a routing process for approvals. So, the to maintain consistency, we're relying on area superintendents and the overseeing chief officer, which would be chief of staff,
009uh to be maintaining those types of um I guess you would say compliance and standards across. But, I just want to make sure that I understand the question as well. And I just want to chime in, but I think those two are two separate entities. We're talking about student club, like the Nike club, which is a cycle club that's been before us. And with this policy change, those students would now be able to have that bike club. What you're referencing, Dr. Jewel, is a student organization, but it's a different that's something totally different and that would just require a advisor at the level and there's a different process for that. So I I Even if it's using the overriding organization, like even if they're working with the national organization? So I'm not sure You you
010have to have a faculty sponsor of a student club organization. And so what we're talking about in these particular instances is outside organizations coming into school to provide services. that has their insurance and everything else. It was just for one example with the Nike Club, I know Miss Cockrell and Dr. Ingram I've been hearing from them and working with. They had everything. It was just there was some roadblocks with this policy language. So this is going to allow those clubs that have their insurance, have the MOU to be able to participate on our schools. Hopefully that helped clarify a little. Miss Cockrell? Thank you. To be clear on Dr. Joe's answer or question, it does say on the item C clubs and organizations established. It does sound like it would fit what the question said.
011But that wasn't my question. I'm just going back to my high school experience when I was sponsoring clubs that you have to have that set of minutes that I was coming from with it. Okay. But I'm just saying somebody might believe that that it would pertain here. And I did have Nike and the skate clubs in mind when I was going through this policy. My question was and I think it's on number three. Is this They must be a routed and approved through all of those levels? That is our current standard practice, yes. I review every MOA and every contract. In addition to the chiefs do approve as well as the area superintendent or assistant superintendent, depending on the level. Yes. So, is this policy more for something that is on a bigger organizational scale?
012Cuz like if you have a a club or something that comes in, them to have to go through six layers of people to say that whether they could have this club or this activity in the school. I just I don't know. That seems like it's a lot of bureaucratic like process that they have to go through. I know with the Nike club in particular, they have everything. It was just this uh MOU was the only thing in the way the policy was written was the only thing that was stopping them from being able to fully participate legally on campus. Okay. Uh so, if I can just follow up with um my question was when you said I was going to ask does the principal have a certain criteria for it for them to approve to
013go to the next level? I believe that would need to come out of the chief of staff and area superintendents. I believe. Can you ask that question one more time, please? So, I'm just trying One of the challenges that when the Nike clubs came to us, one of the challenges they had was um I'm not trying to throw anybody on the bus. I'm just giving an example for our for this policy, but the principal was not exactly sure they wanted that activity like the skate clubs, for example. So, then it stops there. Is there any criteria that would allow the students to apply to say, "Look, we've checked all of these boxes and we would like you to consider that." So, I understand exactly what you're what you're asking. So, if you have a situation
014in which the principal of the school was presented an opportunity need an organization on a particular campus. For whatever reason, they don't support it. Right. And so, you're asking me if there's an appeal process or what can be done or things of that nature to at least have another voice or an opportunity for this program to be afforded on that campus. So, in that situation, they would then go directly to the area superintendent and have a conversation with the super area superintendent. And then, there would be additional conversations because one of the things that I would ask is to really understand why they would not support it. What are the barriers in place? Are there specific challenges that would be created as a result of having this opportunity on campus? All campuses are different. All
015facilities are different. And so, there will be some nuances that you would have to be able to uncover in order to find out the what and where or with the understanding we want to do everything that we can to support children and give them opportunities to engage in many different modalities and opportunities for participation. So, there will have to be an additional conversation. However, the principal does have the overriding authority with regards to whether or not they want to have a particular program on that campus according to policy. Yeah. But, is that a I I I I struggle with that. And so, I think the difference here is that generally principals have that authority to approve or disapprove of a club. With this particular one, we still know that there were some issues around the
016insurance piece and whether they could or could not. And I know the principal had shared with them what was the that they could do to have a club at that particular time. The parameters that we had set in place, that's what he was adhering to, but it was the full breadth of what we wanted to do there. Uh he wasn't sure that we could do from an insurance purposes. That's what we've been able to do is remove those barriers so the club as they wanted to exist and as we can support it through insurance. Now, there's no barrier to that. Now, having said that, uh again, that would be the same process. The principal, according to our policy, can approve. But as Dr. Robinson has said, uh we don't want to have a practice of
017the principal standing in the schoolhouse to assemble because he can. And that is where you have an area superintendent, a chief, a superintendent, and a school board. All of those are things that we would want to be able to leverage to say uh give us a good, clear rationale of why you don't want this club to exist. And so, that kind of speaks to what Dr. Joe was talking about in terms of other clubs that may have uh an opinion that's different from someone else, but principals can't discriminate. They have to say that. Uh whether I like or dislike the the position of this club or the national organization, as long as they've done these things that don't violate these policies, then we want to give them the same opportunity as anybody else. And so,
018in these situations, principals, we do still want them to have the ability to approve and disapprove, but we clearly laid out what we want those parameters to be. Um and and there is oversight to that. So. So, that relates to the bike club and skate club. I just want to make sure we're germane to this cuz the policy is only touching this aspect. The other piece of the policy is we refreshed out and we'll go forward to the policy committee. But this is just to make sure that the bike clubs, skate clubs, any of those clubs that have been that that's that's been temporarily paused because of the insurance purposes and risk management will now be able to go through with this. I just I just wanted to keep us >> Yeah, no, I appreciate
019that we opened up that possibility and and continue to talk about the insurance and to see how we can make that work. I was just curious, like do we have that equal opportunity at each school to now do that with this policy the way it's written. So, that's that's what I'm concerned about. I think the great thing as uh Ms. Johnson-Harriott reminds us the great thing about policy is we can always do our assessment, figure it out if there's some things that we're not hearing that's working, we can always revamp the policy uh with accurate data to determine where it needs to be tweaked and go from there. But, I I understand what you're saying, Ms. Coffield. Uh I have the floor, so Dr. Dean. And I'm here just a few questions from you um
020for clarity. Can you Can you share just I think I've heard I think I'm hearing correctly the intent of the changes in this policy or the R&P that we created to bring clarity so that other programs can participate and organizations. I do still have the same questions that Ms. Coffield had around uh making sure the language is correct with organizations versus um uh the two differences, I'm sorry. Versus clubs um because I I you know, it's different people interpret our R&P in different ways. So, I want to make sure that there is definitely a clear distinction between the two. Um and then the other part for me is I feel I kind of feel in the same space as as Ms. Coffield around while I I hear what our chair brought a whole lot of
021clarity for us about understanding taking away the barrier. But, I feel like we took away the barrier and then increased more actions to take to actually participate. So, that goes back to my original question of our intent um to help me understand the intent a little bit more. Um that it says are the or is this really about larger organizational clubs who can actually afford these particular pieces are are we trying to limit to a way and I don't know if you can actually answer this right now in session again and give an email or something, but I think I'm making sense. Um, Jessica, if you could scroll up to the original policy 6800, it's at the top of that. So, the paragraph that um Dr. Crane read is and it does state clubs. Just
022if you go up just a little bit more, it's that very last paragraph. Uh, it says clubs and organizations established and sponsored by outside agencies or groups shall not be considered school clubs and shall not function on school grounds or during the school day unless authorized by the principal. So, using that language, having not been in a school, clubs and organizations was something that I folded into the R&P. If if you'd like for clarity to separate those, I'm happy to make revisions to the R&P, but I was going off the the basic language in the current policy that stated clubs and organizations. Right. So, thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate that. And so, it does bring me back to the same thought process that um my other colleague was in because if they are
023separate based off uh what Dr. Joe was trying to express or ask, then I think that if the intent of this policy is specifically around organizations um and and not clubs, we need to be specific in nature of so of indicating it so that our principals are not confused while trying their very best to comply with policy, right? And so, that there's no confusion um for me. >> the ask was a bike club. So, I think some of our terminology may need to be cleaned up because what came to risk management was a request for a fight club sponsored by this outside organization. Okay. And so so to me and I'm a math person, so I'm I'm happy to wordsmith what we need to wordsmith along with the assistance of >> may be definitions within
024this policy so that our staff My concern is staff tries to comply as best as they can. That's my thought process and the intent of me asking these questions is because I'm thinking about them trying to meet the needs of the families and of students while still trying to obey district policies and intents. And so that's why That's what my line of questions honestly about. Certainly. And I do want to clarify the review process. Well, it does list out a number of individuals. We we use DocuSign for our internal routing. Mhm. Um it it it is a quick and clean approval process. It is not something that is passed around on paper. And so it does not add to that. What it does is it protects and reduces and mitigates risk and exposure of the
025district. And so risk management reviews it to make sure that the insurance coverages are in compliance with what's in the MOA of the board the board approved templates. Um I review it to make sure that there's not a cost implication that we're agreeing to. In some cases an MOA it's not supposed to be cost implicative of anything, but if there's a monetary value that someone's inserted in there, I do need to review it for that purpose. Um and it moves rather quickly between the administrative services group because we all see it at the same time. So, they receive it all at once and as soon as each one of us approve it, it moves to the next level. So, it is not a a lengthy process to do that once it gets into our DocuSign
026routing. Thank you for sharing that for my clarity. Um with with the And the only reason I'm asking you to make sure that I'm getting it because you're asking us to vote today. Um and so, before I vote today about what we have, I want to make sure that I am agreeing to what we're voting for. Um I understand criminal background checks. I understand sexual um registry checks. I mean, that is for the people who are participating adults that are participating in the programs, right? >> Yes. Okay. And so, the other part is there's a specific amount of money, and then how And I know our risk management is really about helping us minimize the risk. Um but my observation has been sometimes risk management can push programs completely right on out the door. Um
027and so, I'm trying to determine how well are we able to And I'm not talking about the programs in which we've just baby mentioned cuz I know nothing about what was trying to happen. My view is for programming now and what's to come. What How do we How are we assessing, Dr. Taylor, that we are We Yes, we need risk management to do what risk management does, but we've seen I've seen risk management, even with us as a board, has completely wiped things off the table for us to do that in generally speaking is possible, but like how do we mitigate some of that? >> So, so that is uh the exact question to ask, and I think that is what this entire board, district, and schools have grappled with is uh to what degree
028do we take on the risk? And so, with risk management, their responsibility is to simply talk about what is that level of risk what they recommend in many cases if those things don't end up in front of the superintendent or in front of the board then we may never know anything about it risk management just says sorry you can't have a bounce house you can't do this that or the other thing and so this is I think a clear example where the board has said while there may be some things that are not in place we are willing to pay that added insurance cost and take on that extra risk that I think everybody has talked about and that's really what we have to mitigate is what level of risk is the board willing to
029take and that's what we rely on risk management to do and so part of this has been to say risk management does not make the final decision that it is up to the superintendent and the board to talk about what level of risk that is now right I know you've kind of dealt with that a lot in terms of risk management and what you've seen I'll give you an opportunity kind of add your thoughts to it if you will but that is the essential question Miss Rice is we as a you as a board and I as a superintendent have to think very deeply about what is the level of risk that we take because regardless of what we put in place I don't think we remove all risk either and I I just the
030last thing while you comment with that the last thing I have is what is the minimum trend amount that you typically ask people to have in this in these contracts of coverage like for instance my my level of insurance right because that also creates barriers depending on what type of program it is so what is the minimum risk my my firm my minimum risk is a a dollars that that's the standard right? >> Yes. But what is Wake asking for as a minimum that can possibly create a barrier with or so what's the trend that you're seeing or what is the bottom line of what Wake says the minimum has to be for general liability. Are there are there any other insurances that you ask us to have that's over a million? Uh it depends
031for this particular MOA, it would be the million dollars. Uh we do have other levels for other contract type of services like transporting our children is higher. Okay. So can you give me the range of what that looks like? So we started a million and it can go up to right now what's the highest we have right now? I believe it's either three or four million. Okay. Five million. Five that's I was looking for that number. I ask questions that I might know the answer to but want the public to know. Yes. Yeah. All right. Thank you. That's it. Thank you, Chair. Let's have Dr. Eng. Mhm. And then Ms. Gordon and then Okay, then I'll go back to Ms. Mr. Haggerty and then Ms. So we'll go in that order. Ms. Dr. Eng. Thank
032you, Chair. Um thank you. Um and I I I agree in spirit with this um the RMP. Um I think the kind of have to think back to kind of like the origin of this and what what is the intent of this? I mean it was because this organization this this group of students wanted to do something but in a sense was not able to do it because of the of the risk involved and therefore with they were able to they were to the initiative to bring in a a a overarching organization that was able to take on some of that risk and therefore um uh this came about, right? That That That was my understanding. Um and so, I mean, it's a very my uh very very narrow uh circumstances with which this RMP
033this particular MOA uh stipulation will be um applied in in the in the future. But, I'm I'm I'm glad that we have something as a template for the future for these kind of situations. I mean, if somebody want to do a hang gliding club, by all means, if they can do a hang gliding a hang gliding organization to bring in and and and uh and reduce the the the risk on on the school system, you know, by all means. That's it. Thank you, Dr. King. I agree. As long as they follow the policy outlined in the MOA, you we will welcome that club. So, >> Thank you, Dr. King. Yes. That's good. Thank you. My question is around the um the review the MOA review and approval process. So, just for clarity, I I heard
034you say that these are the the entities that it that it has to go through in order to ultimately get approved. But, if it stops at the school principal at the school principal, if a principal denies it, does it still go through this process or it just stops? Stops at the school level. That's where I had a problem. >> Okay. I don't know if it can go forward. I will share with you that all principals want students to be connected to schools, and they go with they exhaust every effort to provide opportunities to do that. If there was ever a situation in which um you know of a situation where something that is good for children and you feel as though that there's a barrier in place, and Dr. Tillery mentioned it earlier, that's our
035opportunity to have a conversation and work through the nuances to ensure that we can provide support. But we would we would have to we would have to know like we would have the public or students with or parents would have to bring that forward to say this was denied for these reasons. We feel like XYZ. Right. And there's been situations where that's happened. Which goes back to the skate club the skate club the bike club were two particular instances that were blocked because of this and so this is a way of of fixing that problem but I think what I'm hearing is some of the hang up is just around the term clubs. And there's a difference between a school club which does not necessarily need to go through all of those versus an outside
036org like NICA or a skate club that is housing students through their organization but they're Wake County school students that are trying to participate on campus. That's where the hiccup was with those two instances. So for a school club like a student council uh chess club this policy there this policy if I understand this correctly does not necessarily apply to those school sponsored clubs. This policy is for outside organizations that students are trying to bring on campus. Okay. And the significant difference is the outside organization is facilitating orchestrating and in charge of the activities on campus. That's different than our policy 6801 which is student initiated non-curriculum related student groups which include things like FCA um where no there may be a faculty sponsor but this policy specifically says that school employees shall not promote
037lead or participate in these meetings um of these non-curricular student groups. They can be present to observe, maintain order, protect general welfare of students. Um And in addition, it also says non-school persons may not direct, conduct, control, or regularly attend those groups' meetings, right? So, at an FCA meeting, that is the students organize, orchestrate, lead, carry out. Um I'm aware of a a group in high school women's health Oh, since it's ONA, and and students run while there is a faculty advisor there, but the faculty advisor does not, you know, it's just to observe, guide should they need it. And And this policy specifically says um in the beginning that um they shall be permitted to conduct voluntary meetings during non-instructional time when other non-curriculum groups are permitted to meet, regardless of the size of
038the group or the religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at the meetings, provided that they don't um materially and substantially interfere with orderly conduct at the school. And such meetings shall be open to all students with regard to race, color, religion, and national origin. This is the student one. It's a completely different thing if the outside organization is conducting, facilitating, and responsible for the the activity. And can you just say what the FCA is? FCA is Fellowship of Christian Athletes. They meet on uh I think a lot of our school campuses at various levels, and that is a student-initiated, non-curriculum group. That is not an outside organization organizing and carrying and carrying that carrying forth those activities on campus. And once this policy is is approved, there will be some memo that
039goes out to principals to say that hey, bike clubs such as this example are now permissible on campus as long as you follow this process. So therefore, there is no, you know, one school is doing something different and another school is doing something differently. And I think that the students that has brought this to our attention will definitely keep us abreast of if there's something that is not going the way the policy should indicate. So, Mr. Haggerty? Yeah, thank you. So, um, you know, there's a lot with student clubs where we could we could be talking about this topic all day. Um, and the chair had mentioned to me, but I just want to ask it so that everyone can hear. We'll have another opportunity to bring this policy back to policy committee to look
040at things that aren't necessarily in this language. Is that correct? >> That is That is correct. >> Okay. Because like the point that Dr. Crane just raised, like the difference between these organizations and the student-led organizations, in our student-led policy, we have that language about non-discrimination. Whereas here in this policy, we don't specifically. But But we do have the language at the very front of the RMP that says activities must support the district's educational that provide As soon as they can comply with all applicable policies. But I guess what I'm getting at is that if we've got one policy that specifically targets it and one that just says, "Well, we're going to follow other policies," we might want to just look at the two and sort of standardize them and make them uniform, right? So,
041so from that point of view, I have a lot of things that I would question or or ask about this one. But if you're telling me that, you know, we're going to have an opportunity to look at those in policy. I can defer all those and just focus on this MOU stuff. Yes, so therefore we can get the bike clubs together. So, if students want to begin this process and get things moving for the next academic school year, they have the road map and the green light to move forward and anything else can come before that. So, today's purpose was just to make sure those bike clubs and the skate clubs and any other particular outside organizations that were trying to do work with our students could move forward and start that process before the
042end of the school year and gearing up for the next school year. Thank you. Policy Policy Chair Edmonds, I'll recognize you. No, I clearly we need more discussion to distinguish between 6800 and 6801, the two policies and I welcome that discussion. I mean, I've got some questions myself, but I don't I'm comfortable tabling that to the policy committee. So, I'll go to next round of questions and we have about 10-ish minutes 9 minutes or I'll start with Miss Cosby and then we'll go to Miss Miss Miss Royce. Okay, thank you. So, back to the policy um and I'm just really struggling with if the principal says it's okay, then they can go forward to the next step and follow these rules. Um two things, the we're saying that this is okay and this is great.
043I appreciate that we're doing this and we're we're moving the Nike club forward and keeping that in mind. The skate clubs are not an organization. The skate club was going to be something that was more student-led. They didn't have like a Nike has an organization, a national organization that they go around, they have their own insurance, they have their leaders, like they have mentors that walk you through the process and how to start chapters. The children that came to us, the students that came to us after that, they recognized that they were at that other students were at at advocating for themselves, so they came to talk about the skate clubs that they wanted to do. And they were actually turned away by that school did not want to have that on his campus. So,
044but these kids were advocating for it. So, in this policy that we have here, it stops there. And we would have no idea if they would have given up. And for me, it just feels like if it stops there, then these students are going to say, "Okay, well, I guess we can't do it." And it ends there. I know you're saying that some students may persist and they may come to us, but don't feel like I I understand, but I do have a wondering and so my wondering is when you say that the principal stopped it there, I wonder was the reason why it was stopped there was because due to the insurances that we have, we didn't have the appropriate coverage to have it on that particular campus or any particular school at this
045time. And so what I do understand is the way that the policy is written now and the information that was supposed to share is that now we have the opportunity to have these type of programs on campus because this policy and the RMP has removed the barriers of the liability insurances that used to be something that would be a barrier for the school having that particular program on that particular campus. That's what I understand. Okay. I'll follow with the email to see if we can create it and >> Yes. and then we can talk about it. But my my question really was about the difference between the Nike club and the skate club since one is an organization, a nationwide organization that has its own insurance and everything, and a skate club that is going
046to be something that is student-led because then when she was talking about 6801, it sounded like it was more that, but it does fit under the liability that this policy would cover us. So, what's what is the what where's the line and how do how do we define that? >> this is actually a case of a both and. Okay. >> That when that was the initial move to have the biking club that there were the I think the constraints that were pushed out by risk management to say that this is an activity that we feel is too risky. And then at that point I think that is when the Nike got involved and said, "Well, as an organization we can provide coverage, blah blah blah." And so there was still the idea of even with
047that uh um uh risk management recommended that this is not a risk that we need to take on, which has led to this policy to say we will put additional things in place where we can remove that barrier. So, I think this is a both and that it probably started out as a student club uh and with liability issues that were concerning. Then you went to an outside organization, uh but then there were the same barriers that were there for Now we remove those. Uh uh Nate, I know you weren't here for that part, but I would think generally that is the idea of what we all understand. Would that be correct? Uh that it was in school club, then the Nike trying to sponsor on the outside, but risk management still saying we don't
048need to do it. And yeah. And I would add um this called bill uh to have a skate club. The skate club would need to be off premise and it would need a sponsor. Um so, that is something that our insurance has said that we we can't have because there is still exposure if they're skating on our campus. And so the club would have to be sponsored off premise um and through an organization that has that general liability insurance. Um the only insurance and it's actually in our next presentation um that that we have um expanded and is on our board agenda this evening uh is to have coverage for all of our school activities. Um and we can speak to that in our in our next presentation for you. So it does have to
049have an organization sponsor. >> It would require to have an organization sponsor that. Okay. And so as far as Uh just as um just piggybacking off of Miss Colefield, I needed to uh add Miss Gordon's statement to help me. I know the chief said what he said, but I'm concerned um and maybe maybe everybody is great, but if it stops with the principal, is there can there be something or in there for people to know to request the steps in which ask because I'm being realistic and I'm looking at trends within the district over the 30 years that I've been a part of it. Um I would like to at least see that people know what to do if it if the answer at the principal's level is a no. Um I don't know if
050anybody else cares about that. I don't know what that looks like, but the challenge that I see in the engagement process with our community is that most families don't know what to do when they're told no at the school base. They don't know that there's an area superintendent. Most people don't even know area superintendents exist. That's why they come directly to us as board members. So they don't know that there is another level beyond the principal and they feel helpless in their process. Um so how do we fix that? Um I know we can't fix everything, but how do we begin to fix that? I'm just concerned, just like the both of my my two colleagues, of the same thing that, you know, for whatever preference the base leader has, says no. How do they
051even know that there's other options because we take what our leaders say as face value, and that's it. So, what is what is that What can that look like, Ms. Posey? I think that's more of a park and not being the kind of figure out as we move forward. But, I think the rest of those parts are applicable to 6801. If I got that correct, uh, student activity pieces, but great These organizational pieces are the piece that we're talking about today, which we just told that if the principal says no, that it's it ends in the water. Is that correct? So, there, based off of that, I'd also look to staff to say, "Hey, will there be guidance to go out to share what will happen and go over and lay out the policy." But,
052I will say, within the four years I've served on the board, this is an opportunity for us to really take what we're hearing from the community, turning it into action, and guiding folks through. And so, And you're here to respond to that, might I add. But, I was I did have the floor asking my questions, but you decided to share your comments with my question. Briefly, cuz we have 1 minute. >> Thank you so very much. Um, with that trend, as well, are we not seeing the fact that families don't get an opportunity to know what to do. I'm sorry, that interchange has lost my whole thought. Um, but my point again is, while I do want to move forward this what you're asking for, at the same time, we say we'll come back to
053a thing. Can we have a timeline of when we're going to come back to a thing? Because we'll I'm only talking You've been here for 4 years. I've been here for the 2 years that I've served, but I've also been in the district for a very long time, longer time of watching these things play out. And so, I'm simply trying to make sure that families have a voice and know a process to utilize the great policies we're trying to put in place. So, will we have a timeline of when we can come back? >> Which I thought I was answering that question, which I said certain parts of this will be coming to the next policy committee meeting, which gives us a timeline to move this item. Okay. I will add that um on my
054planning board for the June policy committee, um I haven't had a chance to talk about this with Neil yet. I could put it on next week if I can get a review with him. Um and it what it takes is it takes the school board association's model policy, which is um student activities, 3620, and it creates it incorporates policy 6800, which are really school-sponsored groups, student government, science club, uh etc. It incorporates 6801, which is right now we're calling student-initiated non-curriculum groups, related groups, but in conversation with Attorney Malone, he has recommended, and I think it's a great idea, we can split that. We can sort of bifurcate that into outside organization, um outside agencies or outside agency or group student clubs, organized student clubs, and student-initiated, because whether the student initiates it and asks
055the outside club to come in, who's organizing the activity? Who's in charge of the activity? Who's planning the bike route? Who's leading the bike route? Who's doing, you know, it's the it's the organization who's doing that. Um if an outside agency or organization comes to a school and asks the principal, "We would like to host a student club on your campus." Does it have to be student initiated? No. The principal could decide, "I think that would be great for our student body to have um organization X host a club on our campus. It would be organized and facilitated and carried out by the organization. Um have a faculty person there to attend, watch, whatever, but not carry it out. And then you would also have the final sort of the other tail of that would
056be the student initiated clubs that students run. Um and there's a faculty sponsor so that you really do have your student groups, not school sponsored groups, whether the student group is run by an outside organization, a club, club, a group, whatever you want to call it, um and a student initiated part that would go there and that all of that would be 3620. The other piece of 3620 is intramural. Um that's a school sponsored thing. Um and then all of the R&P for 6800 and 6801, um including this R&P, um goes behind that. The truth about the R&P for 6800, if you look at the very end of it, the last time it was revised was 1991. There's some very outdated language about honor societies in there. Um that I need to update with our
057academic staff. That part I'm not sure I can get done in the next week, but the policy piece for 3620, um incorporating all of those policies in one, would be student activities. And then we could tailor out who's sponsoring, whether it's the school itself, an outside organization, or a student-initiated. So, I don't want to disturb Policy Chair Edmonds's agenda for that one, so I think of June as a perfect time to bring this back to give staff more opportunity. Policy Chair Edmonds. Yeah, so our next meeting is next week, so it won't be on May's agenda, but um I think what you're talking about, Ms. Bryson, was you know, echoed by other colleagues as we need an appeals process. And we have an appeals process for many, many other things. Um so, I have no
058problem with that, and it just it's clear that we need more discussion. So, I welcome this to be to come to policy, and if we can put it on June's agenda, I'm happy to do that. Okay. No no sweat. Sounds good to me. So, thank you all then. So, just to clarify, this will be on the agenda just to ensure that we can get this first part over the hurdle, so those clubs can move forward, and then other discussions will come forward to the June committee. All right. That works. Thank you all for driving into this, and hopefully you can get some time back. I'm going to move us to our calendar conversion, so we'll wrap up. I didn't know. I thought that was all of it. >> another presentation in there that we had,
059but if we we kind of covered a lot of it in the RMP. There's a presentation in there if you have questions about the student accident insurance that we provided. Um we we shared it with you back in October, but we were able to um afford it within our existing um budget. So, we did expand that to all students. That covers any activities that our students can do. Thank you. I felt like we had wrapped the conversation. I'm sorry to interrupt. I agree. I was not trying to intentionally overlook that. No no no, absolutely. >> Thank you, Ms. Posey, for the work that you've done with Dez, as well as Dr. Crane. Thank you all. >> Thank you for the opportunity to speak. All right, so we will just go over Mr. Carosa, Ms. Puryear.
060Final recommendations for school calendar options. Okay. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Do you have anything for us, Mr. Chair? All right. Um we're here to talk to you today about our final recommendations from the staff level regarding um calendar conversions. It's part of our multi-year approach to managing growth and enrollment across the district. For today, we want to take a quick step back in time and just remind everybody what the rationale is for even bringing forward calendar conversions, go over the feedback we've collected over the last couple of weeks since we lost value on May 5th, and then of course we'll walk through the the final recommendations that we have for your consideration and hopeful review and approval later tonight. As a reminder, our this specific work aligns with board policy 4150, particularly the section referring
061to operational efficiency. And it aligns uh clearly with our strategic plan in three core areas: family and community engagement, equity focused practices, particularly ensuring that we have a strong framework of support for students across all grades, and effective operations and services as well as facilities. And we've talked about this before. This is the tail end of the 2026-2027 cycle. So, it is happening happening concurrently with relatively step four of the 2027-2028 cycle. So, we're just wrapping up our 2026-2027 planning cycle. And of course, we're here today specifically to make recommendations for your review and approval. As a friendly reminder, all the information we'll share today as well as additional information and more detailed versions of some of the reports that we're sharing with you can be found on our website. There's two ways to access
062this information through the assignment planning website and navigating to step six, or by going directly to the calendar conversion page. I want a special thank you to our communications department, in particular Harrison Light, for supporting us throughout this process and making sure that our content is up-to-date and that we're curating all the resources that families need on that calendar conversion page. So, I just want to pause before we jump into anything and acknowledge it is very clear that the communities involved in all of these discussions are very much in support of not only their schools, I love their school communities, but they really grew fond of their year-round calendars. That has not been a point of contention for us at the staff level. We understand that, um which is why this is one of the
063more difficult and challenging tools that we use in our toolbox to manage uh facility utilization. We also want to review and clarify why the recommendations are needed in the first place. And so, quickly, it the strategy or the strategic direction now really is related to operational effectiveness, and then with a lens of equity and stewardship. So, when we're talking about equity, we're looking at program equity and staffing equity. And when we're looking at that stewardship, really concretely, fiscal stewardship for the district, making sure that we're being good stewards of those taxpayer resources, especially when the resources aren't necessarily needed to accommodate the enrollment at a given school. More specifically, when we're talking about program equity, in talking with our principals and and and our area superintendents, we have a couple in the room if we
064need to get into more details. There are some real structural constraints with having underutilized multi-track schools. I feel like that point has been made, and I feel like everyone understands that, that when you're stretching the resources thin across a couple of underenrolled tracks, it makes it very hard to have high equity in the programming across all four all the tracks that are enrolled. We've also hit the limits of creative scheduling in all of the campuses that are before you today. Um and we really can't resolve any more concerns just by being creative with how we schedule. We've also heard not only from staff, but from families. When you're on a small underenrolled track, you're with that same peer group for as many as, you know, K through 8, with with not a lot of interaction
065and diverse perspectives, particularly if you're on an isolated but safe track two, where there's only a single cohort that's aging forward. And that creates not only academic and programming concerns, but also some emotional concerns for families and students. And then, of course, not being able to balance those resources across the classrooms, and thinking about even behavior needs. You have some students who maybe don't get along so well. You really have nowhere else to sort of reorganize or reroster your classes to help them find a better fit and a better group. On the staffing equity piece, our allotments at these schools and their current levels are just insufficient in some cases to cover their specials, some of their elective teachers. They're really relying on long-term substitutes in some cases to make ends meet. Um and that's
066not really an equitable way to deliver academic programming for our students. There's not sufficient personnel. This is something that kind of came new to us as we continue to survey staff. There's not always sufficient personnel when they're underutilized and under sort of staffed, if you will, to cover all those responsibilities and roles. You know, no one gets Not as many people get to have their true planning period because they're constantly having to cover for carpool or cover for cafeteria duty um or perhaps substitutes are having to fill in those roles and they don't know the students as well and don't have the relationships with them that the core teachers do. Um and then of course being able to collaborate as teachers and PLCs when you're on an isolated track with only one grade for that
067track. So being able to get everybody on the same and unified calendar would really support a lot of these concerns sort of address a lot of these concerns. And then fiscal stewardship. Um we shared with you last time the number of months of employment that we were looking at sort of across the board for which schools that we were discussing. Um if you were to move forward with the recommendations as included in this presentation for the 2027-2028 school year, it would be a rough estimate of about $690,000 in savings with an additional rough estimate of $345,000 in the 2028-2029 school year. So all combined would be a million dollars. Now we've got really specific details on the next slide and in the addendum that was created for you so that you can see school by
068school what that impact would look like. And Ms. Kinsey's here with us if we need to answer any questions related to the budget. So we showed you this sort of slide when we talked about it only from a months of employment perspective. You'll now see that the bottom row includes those totals that we normally discussed at our last session. I think the actual estimated total at this point based on 2026-2027 dollars at the sites that we're specifically talking about is just over a million dollars with $37,161 sort of added onto that total. One thing to keep in mind and we'll be honest, if you convert any of these schools to either track four or traditional, you achieve these cost savings. So, the other thing we've also been looking at is the transportation impacts. Um we
069did get a more robust review of the potential impacts, and we're seeing that the current routes that students have will most likely be able to be maintained. They might have updated schedules, you know, maybe your uh pickup time might change by a few minutes. Those schools that are being served on K8 campuses, I'm thinking of the Heritages and the Holly Groves, if they are on a combined route, they would be able to maintain that combined route, so families wouldn't expect a change in that perspective. The siblings get on together. Um there might be additional runs needed with all students in at the same time, but it wouldn't necessarily require any new routes, which basically means no new buses, no new drivers, but maybe a few additional double backs here and there to accommodate um the
070additional students all being in at the same time all the time. And it's it's still a strained resource regardless of what we do. Just wanted to point that out. But at at at best, we're not making more routes. At worst, we're not taking any off. All right. So, then if we look at the feedback we received from our recent public engagement, we showed you this at the May 5th presentation, but we've added a row to the bottom and kind of updated the totals and the views of the videos. Since the last time we were together, there's now been a total of 417 views of the recordings of the original sessions in March. That May 13th session was the day before our due date for submitting materials, so we weren't able to put that in for
071you, but I checked this morning and we've had at least 19 views through some point this morning of the session that we held on May 13th, but we did have 43 participants join us for that and actively participated and engaged. So, we've had a total of 759 participants plus the additional 19 views since we started the process in earnest for this particular cycle in March. And that's just on the sessions. Um so, let's talk about the general session feedback. So, the live session that we had on May 13th, based on the questions that were captured and the comments that were shared, these key takeaways sort of came from that session. Families really wanted us to understand that in many cases, it was a purposeful choice to move to a particular community because they were seeking
072out a year-round calendar. And so that's just something that needs to be, you know, reflected on and all of us need to think about when we're making final decisions. There continue to be some concerns that the peak carpool that the schools are already experiencing when let's say all three tracks are in, um if that's the daily experience for them, just continued concerns there. And so we are continuing to share that feedback with our facilities partners and and the principals and area superintendents so that, I mean, carpool is a challenge on many of our school sites and so just continuing to make sure we're not not thinking about that. The economic and child care impacts on two sides of the economic piece, we've had a couple of business owners as well as even family members talk
073about businesses that have propped up to support track-out camp and track-out care and just being concerned about what these changes might do to their ability to maintain that particular business model. Um in addition, there are child care impacts for some families, having the track-outs allows them to save up and intermittently pay for those care services during the track-out periods, where other families do see that there might be some cost benefits of having a traditional summer because maybe I can send you to the aunt's house or something for the summer, maybe not have to pay for camps through the whole summer. Uh but we have from the year-round groups in particular, have they talked about how that really helps them, especially if they have maybe two professional family professional Ooh. Two professional parents that are working
074full-time or both, you know, whoever in the family group is working, that might be a little bit more affordable for them to space out the the cost of those track-out camps. Uh we've had continued conversations about the growth projections and zoning, particularly in the Wake Forest area. We talked through that during the May 5th conversation and some of the details are in the appendix of today's presentation if you want to review it. Uh mental health and teacher retention, a slightly different perspective, maybe not so much focusing on student performance outcomes, but student mental health concepts like the word burnout has been used quite a lot. And the same maybe even for teachers. And there is some conversation, at least from some teacher groups, and maybe even some parents that they're concerned that teachers might leave
075the school if it doesn't maintain a year-round calendar. So again, something that the board should be considering weighing along with the data sets. And then extracurriculars versus education, we talked a little bit, particularly at the middle school level, about the benefits from an access and equity perspective for students if they're on the traditional calendar, because that means all students are in when activities are running, and all students have access to bus service when when activities are running. But there are some that feel like maybe we're over-representing that perspective. And so just being mindful of that. As far as the Thought Exchange, that was the online platform that we used. I will acknowledge it was a slightly different format. I think I shared that with you at the May 5th presentation. Based on feedback we've received
076in prior sessions, continuing to use the sort of Post-it note version of the Thought Exchange with the ratings after we've already done that once, it seems to fall a little bit flat for families. They like to be able to provide more substantive comments. And so this version that we used allowed them to really do long-form comments, and to deeply reflect on those comments. And it did give us a much more robust sort of view into what the specific concerns are, not just I like it, I don't like it, but here are the factors. And so through that, we were able to learn a little bit more about the benefits of the shorter and more frequent breaks to student engagement, retention, and overall well-being. I think we get that sometimes in those snippets, but those that
077long-form sort of perspective really clarified what it is parents were thinking was really good for their students personally. Also just seeing that it's beneficial for managing school capacity long-term. Again, we've already talked about supporting local businesses, and then providing that flexibility for working families, or families with working parents. Some respondents did advocate for a single track. In fact, you'll see that that's kind of the compromise that's sitting in the middle for for the groups. Like some There are some people think we're not telling the truth. There are some families that have said, "Ooh, we're excited about traditional cuz we'll have K-12 calendar alignment for our family." Certainly, the volume of those are much less than the those that are in favor of year-round, but there are some that have said, "For our family, this actually
078could be really beneficial." But it seems like going to that single track or track four might be a consensus point for for both sides of the discussion. And then, as I said, there are some that are supporting the traditional for that synchronization with middle and high school. And candidly, beyond this particular survey, as we've been doing this type of work pre- sort of recommendations, if you will, for the last four or five years, this swelling of having the different calendars as a family has become an emerging conversation point, but I get when it's my family and we're really used to it, it feels a little bit different. So, just something to keep in mind. We didn't We didn't get here, you know, without thinking through all of that. We did have 743 participants log in
079to the thought exchange, and a total of 565 complete every single question. It was more of a survey format, so that's roughly a 76% completion rate, so that's pretty good. Um we're not surprised by the distribution of location or, you know, role type, or even um uh you know, what how the Oh, we did ask a question to help us better communication cuz we did hear from a lot of families, "Hey, we don't feel like we're learning." So, we're trying to figure out what communication methods are working. And word of mouth is really high up there, as well as, of course, our district of uh excuse me, the messaging that we're sending, um and the messaging from the principals. So, we're going to keep pushing on on all of those avenues for future engagement opportunities
080to make sure that everybody is aware of the discussions that are happening. And I sort of gave a lead away on this one, but um when we looked at the common ground between all of those that participated in the online thought exchange in particular, it seems that whether or not the the year-round elements were important to the family or the traditional elements who important to the family, there seemed to be some consensus around this idea that perhaps a a single track or track four might sort of split the difference. And then just overall our our page, again, thank you to Harrison for keeping our page up to date. We by time of print, we didn't have the update on the the page views, but we had 661 views in addition to the number that you
081see there through May 13th, so it's been again a really welcome resource for families. And you can see that in our online forums, all totaled between the ones we held in March and the one we just did in May, uh just under 2,000 total participants. Again, all of the information we've shared is here to include an interactive version of the thought exchange reports, so families want to look and see a little bit more detail about what came out of that thought exchange, they're welcome to access the report on our calendar conversion page. And so that brings us to our final recommendations. So before we jump into these, I just want to pause and just remind ourselves that part of what staff and the long-range planning team has been thinking about is that stability piece. That's
082really been the mantra for the last four or five years. Can you give us stability where we are, or if you're going to make a change, can it be a change that lasts? And so that's part of where we're seeing us fall into some of the recommendations, thinking about that K-12 calendar alignment that gives long-term stability for families over the long term. Maybe it's a disruption today that provides that stability in the future. Um and then others are equitable access to not only programming during school hours, but programming outside of school hours, and our effort to make progress toward our operational efficiency goals. We certainly heard loud and clear that was part of our charge in our area is to try to find ways to reduce costs so that we can put those in other
083areas of the budget that are more critical for student engagement. We do want to make sure you're aware that there's two pieces of extra information available to you. There's an addendum that the first sheet kind of looks like this. We had some questions about the history of the calendars of the schools, so that's included in the addendum. We also gave you the detailed school-by-school breakdown of the cost estimates so that you could see by what the changes would be and then we gave you another copy of what we shared with you at the May 5th about the how the alignments improve or don't improve if you go, let's say, with the recommendations that we're providing or maybe go with the single track track four option. And then the appendix of this particular presentation has all
084of the growth and projected crowding data that we shared with you on May 5th if you feel like you need to refresh. That didn't want you to have to go digging for it. So, for the summary of recommendations, we're going to start specifically with the northeastern area and here we have Heritage Elementary and Heritage Middle. We will acknowledge that the community is not in favor of going traditional. We hear that. Um this is a long-range planning data-driven recommendation providing long-term stability in the future and providing K-12 alignment long-term for the region. So, we're not not listening to the feedback. We're also weighing that operational efficiency and stewardship of resources. In addition, Heritage Elementary is not the only elementary school that feeds into this campus and the other elementary schools in the region that do feed
085into this campus will need to maintain a multi-track year-round calendar for the time being and having a traditional calendar middle at least provides that one change in calendar at sixth grade and then they're traditional all the way through 12. For the other elementary students who are aligned to Heritage Middle, if it were to go, let's say, a track four cuz we have heard that as a proposal, um then that would mean those families could potentially be on track one, two, or three in elementary school, have to change to track four for middle school, and then traditional for high school. Even if they only have a single student, that's three calendar changes in the life of the student. If they have multiple students, one in middle school and one in elementary school, it's quite possible that
086the middle school student could be on track four while the elementary student's on track one, two, or three. So, just thinking through that, that's why this recommendation has been brought before you um as staff. It also provides flexibility so that if any other elementary schools in the region need to go multi-track year-round because of the K-3 class size legislation, you would at least only have that one pain point of traditional sixth grade. But we get it, right? We we get that the community is not in favor of this recommendation. Um looking at the southern area, similar. Um the first round of information sessions in March seemed a little bit mixed reviews. We had a lot of people saying, "Ooh, I can see the K-3 K-12 calendar alignment for the Holly Grove would be really, really
087helpful." And hey, could we just do this in '27-'28, so we're not holding our breath and waiting and waiting and waiting for the change? We know that our schools have changed their enrollments as new schools have opened in the area. Um and so that's why we brought forth a traditional calendar recommendation for '27-'28 for both Holly Grove Elementary and Holly Grove Middle. Again, similar to before, um the only challenge in the terms of the dates is that Heritage Elementary and Heritage Middle currently don't operate a Track 2, so they've already reduced tracks. So if they held in that formation for '26-'27 and '27-'28 and then change to traditional, that would give their staff and families time to prepare for that type of change. That was our thinking behind the recommendation. Here, Holly Grove Elementary and
088Holly Grove Middle currently operate all four tracks. If we don't expedite whatever decision you all do make for this particular set of schools, the families are likely going to experience multiple calendar changes as they get shifted off of under-enrolled tracks and then have to change calendars. So that's part of why we're recommending the '27-'28 implementation for that pair of schools. Holly Springs Elementary and Rex Road are similar in that track configuration because of the new elementary schools that have opened in the region, and Rex being one of them, there's not a need to persist and wait and delay. Um we could implement these as early as '27-'28. Different from Holly Grove Elementary and Middle, which are on the same campus, Holly Springs and Rex are on independent campuses, and Rex is sort of, as I
089think we mentioned on May 5th, the sort of last edge of schools that we have in that part of the county, so having the ability to flex back to multi-track would be very helpful. And Holly Springs being one of the few elementary schools that somewhat near that Brier Creek area may need to support us in managing that growth as it comes online. So, having the flexibility to go back out to multi-track would be would be nice to have that school in that region from a long-range planning perspective. And then the last set of recommendations we have for you are in the northwestern area, specifically Pleasant Grove and Sycamore Creek Elementary. Uh Pleasant Grove, similar to Rex, is kind of the last school on the edge of the county in that region. And so, being able
090to flex back to multi-track in the future as growth rebounds in their area would be very helpful. In addition, most if not all of the families that attend Pleasant Grove Elementary were recently assigned from multi-track elementary schools uh Parkside Middle and Austin Ridge Elementary I'm sorry, Parkside Elementary and Austin Ridge Elementary into the school when the calendar was converted. So, this would provide some semblance of stability of calendar for these families. And it is a portion of it is still aligned to Austin Ridge Middle, so that would that would work okay. It's a multi-track year-round uh middle. Sycamore Creek, little bit different animal. They've got a relatively large fourth and fifth grade population that just needs a little bit of time to age out. And so, the 28-29 implementation is what we'd recommend. Staff has
091recommended track four, but I will be candid in the thought exchange and through the information session, we have heard some asking for traditional because they do align with Pine Hollow, which is a traditional calendar middle school. So, just something for you to weigh and consider before you make the final decision. We cleaned up our proposed stability rules. If you were to take the recommendations as we prepared them, we thought that the stability rules would be important. Any base students at any of these schools, of course, would remain assigned to their school and uh we would recommend that they get some sort of priority if their school specifically is converted to traditional calendar to be able to request a transfer to a year-round school in a different area. Um if their schools are converted to, let's
092say, track four, then I don't think that that would be necessary. For the other school students who are at the school by calendar application, so those are students for whom it is not their base school, but it is on the list of identified schools that comes with transportation. Um for these families, we would start by initially assigning them to their base school because we always want to make sure that your initial assignment comes with transportation. And then we would go forward from there. If they would like to participate in a stability transfer process and remain at their current school regardless of the calendar change, we recommend that we should we should do that. Or if they were to ask for a um transfer to a year-round school particularly if their school is uh to traditional
093that we should give them priority for that type of request. And then of course option three would be to remain assigned to your um base school and and move forward with that transition. And I think with that we're just quickly going through the timeline. At this point we're we're toward the end of this particular process. We're taking it to you for a vote later tonight. And then we would support families because of the timing and because it'll be a board meeting will probably be a little bit longer. We'll most likely get our messaging out to families tomorrow once we know what the clear and final decisions are of the board. So we'll send messaging out to the families first thing tomorrow with any instructions and information. And with that sir, I'll turn it over to
094you. Mr. Lawyer and I tried to go as fast as I could. Thank you very much for diving into this. I know that we have been receiving numerous emails about this. I understand the importance that this has for families and how these these changes can impact their day-to-day lives. And so I'll just say that there any recommendation that the board will have will take place next Well, we can discuss them here, but they will be on the action. I do know that I've heard from both Dr. Joe and Ms. Colvin what the changes that they would like to see for their two schools in their district. Um Did you have a question Dr. Joe or sir? Um No, not a question. I mean, I don't know if we want to discuss right now or I
095I do have a quick point. So if we do look at making recommendations for Heritage Elementary and Middle to track four. I would suggest that we offer it as a 27-28 change instead of waiting until 28-29. I think that will help with the anxiety of both the staff and the principal of having to organize the classrooms and whatnot. So that will help. Okay, that's very helpful. Dr. Jabour, do you have any questions you want to raise? I did want to say I I brought this up with Dr. Taylor before and I'm going to send this over email, but I think it's important enough to say one more time. I really appreciate all that you've done. I think it's it this is extremely difficult, you know, and I know It's like the last tool in the
096toolbox that we use. Um, one thing I will make a suggestion about is that um one thing that might have allayed some parents' anxiety is if you had taken feedback at the May 13th meeting when you said you were going to take feedback. Like they felt like they showed up, some people even prepared statements and stuff and there was no time to do that. And considering the invitation even said that you would accept feedback they felt very silenced at that meeting and and I want to advocate for them in this moment. Um and I'll also say that like I you know, we we had a presentation just a couple months ago about how different the projections are um for growth this year versus last year. And next year it could change back or it might
097not, you know, so I want to keep that in mind as well. So, that's it. Is there any other Mr. Ryder? Thank you. So, just a couple of things. Three three points. The first is really more of a question and this came up during some of our early discussion. And I don't know I think it might have been Mr. Hershey who asked it originally. And we heard an answer, but we needed a little bit more to expound on it. When we talk about a multi-track year school going to a single-track traditionally we're always talking about track four and there's been some different reasons for that. But when we look at the like the upstream impacts, how that change in calendar could affect a multi-track middle school that it feeds into. For example, if all the
098elementary schools feeding into the middle school switch to track four then the parents are going to be upset because not everyone can be on track four. There's a question about whether elementary schools could be single-track on a track other than track four. And the quick response we got was well no, we don't think so because of special education services. But we didn't know if there was anything beyond that, if there was any flexibility or if you know, any research or consideration into alternative single-track calendars were out there as we measure the impact of these conversions on the schools above them or below them. So legally there's nothing that prevents us from using track one, two, or three. Um I think as a district because of the way that we may share resources across the district,
099having them on a similar calendar track four is the best way to utilize those resources, but we can continue to work with other departments to make sure that for an impacted school, maybe there's a a particular school that may not share resources that can have that flexibility that feeds to a multi-track that we can balance that. I know that the middle school principals would really appreciate that um because it's a lot less um impact on them having to change people's tracks over time, but we can certainly look at that. And so that just goes to my second point, which is as we consider these changes for specific schools, we're impacting not just the schools calendar we're changing, but again, their feeder schools and the schools beyond that. We saw this when we made the changes,
100for example, to Pine Hollow Middle. There was sentiment in the community to keep the school year-round, but there were fiscal reasons to convert it to, you know, a traditional calendar. It had been operating track four, and even a track four, it was still under-enrolled. But because of the change, then there was pressure on the elementary schools feeding into it to accommodate parents with students of siblings in middle school and elementary school. So even though, for example, a Sycamore Creek may have had students to support four tracks in a multi-track calendar, the principal was under pressure to try to compact tracks or reduce them to increase, you know, more students per track to to match it up to the middle school. And so as we consider these changes, just don't think about Look beyond just the
101individual school, but the schools that feed into it and the schools they might go into. The last thing I wanted to note is as we look at the savings, you know, I I ask just all of you to balance the both sides of the equation. We know from earlier this afternoon, we've got $10 million we're going to start in the hole for next year's budget because of choices we made to balance this year's budget using one-time money, also looking at projected changes in Medicaid revenues, etc. So a $1 million in total savings is impactful. The other thing I will note though is if you look at the individual costs out of our entire budget for like one elementary school or one middle school, you could look at that and judge that is a modest change
102for the number of people that it impacts. So, if we decide, for example, that there's a recommendation to move to traditional calendar, but we don't want to do that, um if we wanted to keep it multi-track, that will be a cost to us, but you can judge whether you know what the impact of that cost is versus other impacts we might have to make with other budget items last year later on. And then please don't overlook what I think I heard staff say, which was the cost of changing the calendar from or the difference between a track four school and a and a traditional calendar school is not that different. >> Right. We we get the same cost savings either way. So, you do get those cost savings. So, that might give you some more
103options to consider. So, those are just the points I wanted to make. So, I'll I'll do a follow-up. Give me one second. I just want to make sure I want to make sure there's no other board members that have a question. I just want to add something to that. One other One other thing I was thinking about the track four option, if you're considering going to track one, two, or three, the only thing you have to consider is staff with children. So, you would be limiting the number of options that they would have in surrounding schools to be able to align with their own calendar, but that's just something else to think about. Okay, thank you. Any other Do you have a question, Scott fellow? I have a couple of Go for it. I have
104a couple of comments I could add, and I know we're voting on it, so I think it's really important. Um I was asked a couple of questions, so I would like just clarification. Um why were um Sanford Creek Elementary School didn't seem to be in the equation. So, could you Sure. explain so Um the base attendance area for Sanford Creek Elementary is not Heritage Middle. I believe it's Rolesville Middle. Rolesville Middle. She's got the list. But but it's traditional middle school. So, any student at Sanford Creek that's attending Heritage Middle is having to request it and get approved, and not all of those are guaranteed. So, it is not their base feeder. So, um the feedback that I got was that some of those families were, um felt that they weren't participating in that cuz
105they were not made aware. So, just knowing for the future, it's if it's a significant amount of people, then they would have liked to be included in that. How many students do you know 14 from kindergarten. >> I didn't know if that's what your question was. How many students are from Sandburg Creek that actually are in that base that would go to Heritage Bank. I don't know if we have that on We can get that for you before we talk about it tonight. How many are in each grade? I believe there's 82 that are on calendar application, but that's across 15 different schools. Okay. And then with >> for one grade. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry, for sixth grade. Okay. Just for understanding the numbers and everything you broke down, and I know that you have
106your whole team has put a lot of work into this. So, I do recognize that. How many students are in each track? Because like I know in in some of these schools we have collab track collapse track, too. How much are in general are in each track before we flow into another track? Um it's the high school, excuse me, at the middle school level, it's somewhere around the 115 to 120 range is like that ideal number for a group of students. >> Okay. So, if I have at least that many, I can run a whole track and have four teachers, and that way no one's teaching two subjects, and I have enough months to get the specials and stuff. If I go below 100, it starts to get really tight, and then you have somebody
107teaching two subjects, or maybe even two grades. And when you get like below 60, that's when you have one teacher teaching two subjects, maybe only two teachers on the team at all. And and you start to get some compromises in the programming there. And what about elementary school? Um that's going to be site-specific because it depends on the number of classrooms that they have. So, you're looking at that 18 16 17 17 formula for kindergarten through third grade. So, I need at least that many for a single track. If I can double that, then I can do a double track. Some schools can double on two tracks. Some schools are actually designed to be able to double on four tracks. I think all of the ones we're talking about here, Glenn, are designed to double
108on two. >> To double, yeah. So, if they need six sections to be full. At a minimum. So, for Heritage Elementary, since that's one of the choices, what what are we thinking about one particular track? Meaning we To keep it multi-track, we have four tracks. Like how much do we You need a minimum of two kindergartners to have one section in each track, but then that starts to give you those programming issues where I don't have two sections, right? >> Right. And then ideally you would want >> to collapse a class because your enrollment drops at let's say >> Then they got to change tracks. Then they're going to have to move people off of that track. Okay. But you'd need about 108 uh kindergarten students, which is roughly what you would need um for
109second and third. The formulas are slightly different because that's 16, 17, 17 for those grades, respectively. And another reminder when we talk about programming and equity, um when you do try to run like a single classroom at every track to continue four tracks, there's also going to be a track that doesn't have a specialist that's in there um during their track out. So, let's say the specialist is on track four, so you're going to have two two tracks at some point are going to have a sub during their specialist time. And generally the feedback we get from principals is they don't have the extra months of employment to um pay for an additional month of employment for your specialist to be 11 or 12 months. If you collapse a track? No, you have to >>
110have one section, not using four tracks. Yeah, if you're trying to Yeah. If your enrollment is that low where you're running a single on every class, you're going to have >> there's going to be some programming issues. Yes. Okay. And you just probably won't have this answer for me right now, but if you could let me know how many requests that we get to transfer to the year-round options in there. Per our Well, for this one in particular, cuz this is a lot of feedback that I've heard is that they were denying and so how can we help? We acknowledge [music] that in our sessions. We There are quite a few people that are requesting it. They currently don't have a truck too, so that complicates things. They don't have their full capacity, but the
111schools around them also are not fully enrolled, so there's not We don't have an operational need to move those students out of other middle schools to to fill Heritage, right? So we have been open and honest about that. Then my last question would be in reference to that one is are they able to expand the boundaries? Cuz we do it all the time. We change boundaries. >> about that at the elementary level that that was an option, but we felt like that was probably more disruptive just from a long-range planning standpoint, but I'll let you take it from there. For for the middle school it's the at what cost? Because you just have too many seats available for the number of students. So when you're looking at the surrounding middle schools, I think you know,
112you're in the 70%. I think for what it is. Yeah, so Wake Forest Middle School is at 82%. Wakefield Middle is at 68%. Rolesville is at 79. So if you're taking students from those school Yeah, Durant 64. If you're taking students from those schools to fill up Heritage to get to 100%, where does that leave your surrounding schools? You're just going to push that problem to them where they're going to have equity issues with their programming cuz they're under enrolled. Right, which I understand, but it doesn't look like anybody's close to 100%. That's the reason why we're trying to reduce the multi-track cuz we just don't have the need for the extra seats in the area. Okay. And we all know that the concern there is how much charter and private there is in that
113area. This is in like stone's throw of all of these schools, so trying to get them back to something that helps with them. And that's where I think staff's recognizing the fact that if Track 4 is a way that you want to go, that is something that we can support and you still are getting the cost savings. Right. And and I will share that that was the option for most of the people that I heard. If you are going to change it to traditional, please just do track four. But they all wanted to keep the multi-track. So, I'm just trying to find ways that we can find ways to keep it, especially for the middle school, because it is the only year-round option that we have in that area. And um I just wanted to
114share as we're all considering voting for tonight. Um the biggest things that I heard myself and I think we've seen some of the emails is the burnout and retention for not only our teachers, but our students. And when we talk about like dollars and well-being, that is a big thing. You know, um so I think that helps with retention. I specifically have heard from teachers that have been doing this for 20-something years because they love it and they will not go to traditional. But it's just the burnout at this point in their career. And they shared that and and that was that was reported out. Okay. Yeah, we acknowledge that that has been said, 100%. Sorry, Mr. Superintendent. No, you're fine. It's all So, I know that you'll have a motion at the table to
115amend um the staff's recommendation. >> to make changes now, we'll just address them. Unless you all want it It's up to you. I know, Mr. Superintendent. So, I will be making a motion for at least track four um and and I can't vote for them to go to traditional. I don't know if that's easier for you to to present that at the meeting. We can acknowledge that the board wants to make a change, we'll revise the recommendation. We can certainly do that. Okay. Is that what Did you want to do like a thumbs up here so that it's an edit that we take forward? I took a vote to a thumbs up. Is there a thumbs up for Heritage to be track four only? Both Heritage It's both Heritage and Coal Field has three middle
116schools. So, we'll present that as a board revision. And 2027-2028 would be Is that too soon for families? Because it'll still be track four, they'll still have that infrastructure and it'll really help get the programming lifted up. It'll be less impactful because otherwise you're going to have students in the next several years one to three to four, you know, this will let them solve it for the whole of one change. Yeah, they'll have over 12 months at least. And then well, I know Dr. Joe had a similar recommendation for Olive Grove Elementary in May. Yep. Same. Track four. Okay. Yes. Yep. Thank you. Any other recommendations or modifications to the staff's recommendations? >> So, the only other thing is I think now would be Sycamore Creek is the only school Sycamore still needs to wait
117for 2028-2029, please. And then the question did you want to entertain the traditional or we'll stay with the track four? I think we're okay with the track four. But keeping it on the 20 separate keeping it on the the year out, that's additional time to collect feedback and see how staff and families respond. Perfect. All right. Thank you all. We'll see you at the other side of this meeting. And then we will have our Ligon Magnet Middle School Legacy Committee update and design. And I know we are cutting it close on time. You've got to go. I think materials from Ligon All right. So, thank you, Mr. Chair. As we are pulling up this presentation, we will move very quickly because we know we do have limited time and today we want to give you
118an update on where we are with the Ligon project. I'll just talk briefly about the Ligon Legacy Committee and then I will quickly pivot to Catherine Peel who's going to talk about Uh, where we are in the in the and the different designs that we put together. Uh, so just very succinctly, uh, the Legacy Committee is doing I think the work that we wanted to do. Mr. Taylor, if you can speak up just a little bit so Ms. Allen can Okay, I'm sorry. I've been appropriately No. Teacher voice. Oh god. I've been recovering so I But anyway, uh, thank you uh, Mr. Chair and um, with the Legacy Committee you will see um, if you can go to the next slide uh, the different members that are part of this committee and this has been
119really some robust conversation uh, in terms of what we want to come out of this committee. Uh, the one thing that I've expressed in the meeting that it is about uh, looking at the historical context uh, context of the building and providing perspectives and stories from the various uh, members of the the Leggett community both alumni from the 50s and 60s um, and up through junior high and middle school. Uh, to give that perspective. So that has gone very well. Uh, at the first Legacy Committee meeting uh, Vice Chair Hershey and board member Rice and I we were there. Uh, we did have to leave that committee meeting early to come back to a um, a meeting here at the board. I think it was uh, a work session if I'm not mistaken. Uh, but
120we did have the opportunity to meet each of the the members there. Uh, talk about what we wanted this committee to do uh, and some ideas about what we want this Legacy to be like 20 years from now. Uh, most people were highly engaged in the process of making sure that this was a proper memorial uh, reflecting the wishes of the board and the community and not just being a placard as I've talked about. Uh, they did have a chance to look at the three different designs. Uh, Mr. Hershey, Ms. Rice and I were not there for that. Uh, and so I will let Ms. Peel talk about that some of they did sort of eliminate one of those as a committee. Uh, and now she is still going to bring all three back to
121the board as you all have asked. Um I do believe after our second meeting, I know Mr. Hershey and I was able to be there. And Miss Rice, we're going to have to pivot since we down know that Wednesday is your birthday for you. So, as we look to the future, we're going to try and make some changes so we can accommodate you. Um but that was a very informative meeting in terms of what Carmen Coffin was able to share. Um and then hopefully at some point we can have her to come and talk with the board about that. Um but they did get into the three different designs or rather two designs. And I think based on what I've seen, um I won't make any predictions, but I believe that most most people will
122probably coalesce around uh one of those designs, but we'll kind of go from there. Um the last thing I'll do now and I will hand it to um uh Katherine. I'll give you that now. You can click as you go through. But this is what I thought was very interesting uh from Carmen. And that is the history of what we believe about Milligan and what she discovered in her um research, if you will, is what was important to the community 70 years ago versus now. And one of those things that was clear is that the community had a different site in mind that they were uh highly engaged in having, but for whatever reasons they were not able to do that and they landed on the site where we are now. And so, that is
123kind of what we took from it that that is sacred ground today, but 70 years from now it may be something totally different. And I think those are the interesting things that are coming out of the research that she has. Uh and lastly, she did have conversations about how we get other memorable things brought forth. With that, Katherine, I'm going to pivot quickly because I know this is what the board wants to hear. Uh and we will open up to any questions after that. Yeah, and I'm not going to go through all of the information we presented to the committee, you know, with the site constraints and the drivers. I think y'all are pretty familiar with the site and you know, the the challenges with the topography and it's it's a small site, but um
124we're excited about the direction that the three options and then the one that we really narrowed down to with this committee last week. Um I'm just going to jump ahead. So, we presented three preliminary design concepts of really the building turning in different directions and where it faces. Scheme A really is more aligning with Haywood. Scheme B facing MLK Jr. Boulevard and scheme C was really looking back up the hill towards the former Lee and Camp bus. Um the committee really overwhelmingly was not in favor of scheme C. They liked A and B, but suggested some modifications, which uh we went back to the drawing table and made some changes that we presented last week. Um so, that the scheme A updated, um the big change is really having a a fairly ceremonial lobby off
125of Haywood. And that lobby connecting through to the parking lot on the east side. And I think the committee was really excited about that idea of again, of a legacy of a an entry off of Haywood and that public lobby would really organize all of the public spaces, the gym, the dining hall and auditorium with a central lobby, a a two-story lobby. Uh and you can see that sort of traveling through there. Um so, a lot of excitement about this and around the the idea of a history spine that goes through the school. Really good solar orientation for the classrooms. Uh we made some changes to scheme B. They had recommended that we flip the auditorium and the classroom and again have more of a major entry off of Haywood, but the more the committee
126talked about it, we feel like a three-story classroom wing along the east side of this property against residential areas would not be a good fit. And everyone, the more they looked at it, said, "Even though we love, you know, in some ways the school facing in L K Junior Boulevard, putting that element on the east side of the site might not be the best approach in terms of being a good neighbor." Um so, I'm I'm skipping through this, but but really um we asked did a show of hands and every hand in the room was unanimous towards scheme A in terms of really liking this the best. Again, representing that history and legacy of an entry off of Pay Wood. Uh we have had a preliminary sketch plan review with the city of Raleigh with
127both A and B and got good feedback from them in terms of that we were meeting requirements that we needed to meet with the city particularly for transportation. One of the main goals is to get the bus and car traffic off the surrounding streets. If you go out there now, afternoon dismissal, cars back up on the north, this is the the buses are parking on side streets and they're not queuing up on the site. Um so, that's our recommendation and we really need some feedback and I guess we'd love approval to move ahead with scheme A to to schematic design and we would be bringing this back to you at the end of the summer for approval of schematic design with the facility committee. Um these are some of the images and the the sort
128of thought starter work that we did with committee in terms of the kinds of elements that they would like to see incorporated into the school. Um this piece will come later after the design is really solidified. Um but we got some great feedback that will be taken consideration and we'll be bringing ideas back to the committee starting back up in September. We have another meeting with them in June and then we're going to give everybody a break for the summer while we work through some of the design direction on this project. Um so, this is the schedule that we we're looking at. Again, with that summer break, we're here today again with happy to get a thumbs up to move ahead with scheme A so that we can work hard over the summer uh to
129bring a a design back to you at your August uh facility committee meeting. So, with that, we'll just kind of hear feedback from the board about those general designs uh and kind of what we think uh is is the direction we want to hear from the board in terms of where you want to go. But again, uh you know, I know Mr. Hershey you were there uh to see those designs. I know Mr. Rice was not uh that first meeting but they came in but the second they were there. Uh and so that's what we kind of feel everybody coalesced around but just if we could just get the general feedback of your thoughts so we can pull those designs back up and just uh kind of hear from the board. Uh David, you can
130come on up if you want to, man. I saw Mr. Caulfield's hand first I think and then we'll go in that order. Mr. Caulfield? Um I just have a question for number um for for the second one, scheme B. Um I just always think of Eastway High School because I know it's just logistically hard for you to get when you spread the buildings out so far. Um it does it matter if they switch the classroom and auditorium if the three-story is really the issue? And it looks like they have a pretty good tree barrier or is that just the drawing? Um there's existing all of those residents have a lot of trees in the backyard. I mean obviously the lake inside itself is clear. So we don't really have any trees on our site cuz
131it's all ballfields down there now. Uh but I think it was more around just the idea of that strong um lobby element that continued through from Haywood to the main visitor entry >> [clears throat] >> uh off of the the parking lot. So It just seems like the classrooms are so I don't want to say disconnected. I understand the atrium and and I love the history part of it. Um but it just seems like when you switch the classroom and the parking lot it just seems so far the classrooms to everything else. For scheme A? For scheme A, yeah. >> I mean, it's a long skinny side, for sure. Um, you know, the the students will have the majority of their day within that that classroom block, right? So, and the arts are right there
132as well. So, they do have a little bit more distance going to the gym or or the dining, for sure. And if you look at them going to the gym or dining, and then if they go to the fields that are in the back, which I know we had already gave a thumbs up on that, that we would have that separate. I mean, that is quite a distance. And also through library. So, I mean, is there any way for you to keep where the atrium is like that in scheme A and switch the parking lot and the classroom? Uh, not really. In terms of the the width of this thing is so tight, so >> Okay. We're also moving utilities as part of this project, so we've got along the eastern property line, we have
133a a new sewer easement that's going through, so Okay. It just seems like it's really logistically hard. Well, one of the things to know, these are just blocks right now. They're not the actual floor plan. We start out with when we're designing, we start really big picture and take these blocks of program and move them around. So, as we start consolidating this into a true floor plan, we are working to get this as as a tighter footprint. Okay. And do you Can you give a reminder us, um, what the cost of the school is? The total project budget is 141 million. Um, construction is not that much. That's that includes the soft cost. So, that's all-in cost, fees, and furniture, and and design, construction, and everything. That's the total project price. So, just wondering because
134I know that we were either I think we're asking to approve for the East Gardner Middle Middle um, Middle School, and they're at 73 million. What's What is the Totally different project, totally everything. We're keeping some of the buildings that used to be on the middle. Much smaller school, smaller site. I mean a better site. Um just It's not apples and apples. We're also doing a larger auditorium at this school for the magnet program. Okay. I just I loved it the history part of it and these pictures I assume were just like reflections of what we plan on doing. It looks great. It looks pretty fancy, so I'm just Well, this was just a brainstorm session to let folks weigh in on just some ideas around how we We certainly would do wouldn't do all
135of that. So, we're trying to be selective about what gets included. Okay. I'd like to hear the feedback from Ms. Rice and Mr. Hershey since you were there about why you can't get the classrooms a little bit closer. It's just like just like Uh you can circle back to them, but I'll go to Dr. Aim and then the classrooms Okay. Thank you. Um just uh on this ceremonial lobby, um is it available is it accessible to the public? Like if if people were wanted Is it something that After hours, yes. So, during the school day, all of the visitors would be coming in the main entry from the parking lot. Um the bus bus driver I mean bus riders will be coming in that entry cuz the bus lane will be running parallel to Haywood.
136So, all your bus riders are going to be coming in that that lobby uh off of Haywood uh in the morning and in the afternoon. Uh and then at night it can be opened up so there's the bus um the bus queuing can be used as parking for regular cars at night. And so, for night activities, you can come in and go to the auditorium without having to go into the rest of the school. Yeah, yeah. I just want to you know see this as a as a community celebration 24/7 um, you know, 365, right? I mean, that's something that that is uh not just for the school time and the school hours, so thank you. I'll share. Thank you. Um, just to I guess explain a little bit about the choice. I was there
137when the three different options were presented uh and then they came to that conclusion because that Hagler space for the community was the original front facing of the school and since they could not get what they originally desired for the school to be placed and because we had to change it, um, everyone really pressed to have the school facing the original space since we had to they had to compromise on so many other things. And so that was something that's very important to the committee, but before I say anything else, I do have to acknowledge the amazing redemptive process that we have done with this particular selective committee. Um, I think that our our our staff, Mr. Burnett and them, I must raise um, awareness to um, and to our architects that have listened um,
138during this these committee sessions. I know I didn't attend this last one, but there was a lot of talk at the very first one of reimagining what it looks like and what I see today as a presentation, I must honestly say it looks like there was a lot there was some active listening going on with staff and they brought back to me from what I recall exactly what the committee was asking for and we had people that was a part of the committee that has been there since they went to school um, at the beginning and is still a part of the community today, so um, I'm very happy to see this particular process that they did bring back and it looks like it is moving in the direction of what the committee um has
139desired to see in the long term. Um, so that's the answer to your question, the reason why the Haywood. Miss Cofield, if you ever get a chance to go to Southeast Raleigh, you really will see at Ligon. It's not It's really not a big space. It looks long here, but in reality it's not. I think it's just more magnified so that we can see it of what it looks like, but it's really not a long distance walk. It's not like what I had at Enloe from East Wing to to West Wing. It's not even that long. >> Wake? Right, or even East Wake thing still. It's not even um that size of the spaces. Uh correct me if I'm wrong. It's a lot more condensed. This is just magnified so that we can see um
140what it looks like, but it's not The area's very tiny, which is why Google they were concerned about it even being on Haywood because the streets of Lenoir and everything is all really um dense like together really really dense. I hope that makes sense. For those who have gone to Ligon to see it, it is really dense. Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It's a long pause. I mean, one of the assuming thing I look forward to seeing you here. >> for having me here. Yes, sir. Um, Miss Gordon. Thank you. >> Sorry, I'm putting all of you on the I'm good. Um, I know I know and this question may not be the right time for this game part of the process, but I know we had a lot
141of conversation around um preserving like um original parts of the building, um whether it's and I'm just using this as an example, um the seats in the current auditorium. Like is that not for this this part of the discussion? >> that back to you later, but but we're to be inventorying all summer. Um we actually have a summer intern coming on board that's got a history background and she's she's going to be in League and a lot and we're going to be taking pictures and and figuring out what we can save and use in the school in there. Okay, thank you. After she spoke first, I'll I'll follow through the order that I'm going to stick with. So, I'll go to you and then get to her at the end. So, uh uh the meeting
142was really went really well and to the um question that you raised, they community members went up and they and uh put it put posted notes on or little dots on a bunch of pictures, that kind of the design elements that they were indoor design elements that they were looking at and so they and they talked about bricks and all that. So, that's very much on their minds and that was at the meeting. For the point about the distance, I think at the meeting they pointed out that the way League and is currently, it's actually longer to get from one end to the other than what that would be. Um the last point is that and staff and I talked about this already was making sure the hallways are really wide enough where between the
143eight year uh the auditorium, the arts and the library and classroom, those are it looks narrow up there. That was already it's already on the minds of our staff that we're going to have to widen that significantly cuz it's going to be a lot of people flowing through those areas, but it was a lot of positivity there at the meeting, this last one as well as the first one. Um the community was really engaged in this entire process. For me, this you know, when we made when we had the motion and the vote and capturing the auditorium entrance and the importance of it being on Haywood and there being that entrance there, I I'm really happy with the direction this is going in and if you ever drive down uh MLK and you kind of
144look at the site you can start to imagine it and see a big Legg and sign out there and how it connects to them James Park and I think it's going to look great. It's certainly what I'm supporting tonight. Here's something very briefly first. >> Yes, sir. Um, I just wanted to assure the board that um, Ms. Carmen Coffin which is the daughter of I know we mentioned before she you've heard her speak um, the daughter of our integrated board um, California um, Wimberley Thank you, Wimberley. Um, is is really um, helping with guiding um, when it concerns the historical pieces. So, I just really wanted to highlight that um, that when um, Ms. Coffin was talking about making sure we preserve particular things. She is a historian within the city of Raleigh. Very um,
145well-respected um, and knowledgeable about it. And so, I have strong confidence for me um, that gives me pause. You know, it's good when I pause, right? That Ms. Coffin is really um, aware of how this needs to look in references to preserving the historical pieces. I mean, she is the the best historian that we have in this city around and at the books that she's written everything. So, she is really you can't get any better than Coffin to understand the history of Raleigh. So, they applaud applaud our architectural firm for making sure that she's on board with us. So, we should be confident in what it's going to look like. And I'll second that. Thank you. So, I think there was some request to figure out which schematic design or some guidance for staff to
146bring it to you. >> to request the ability to move ahead with scheme A so that we can can get going with schematic design. So, I'm thumbs up if consensus is around that. So, it looks like can move forward with the schematic design of scheme A. So thank you for the work that you all have done to put this in and hearing the community voices and taking a situation that was 53 that was built in 53 and rectifying that wrong because I think in the minutes that was pulled the school when it was built in 53 did not pass the inspection that that board put together and they chose to move forward with it anyway and it's in the minutes. I've read the minutes from the 52nd and the 53rd when it was proven that's
147a lie. I'd say that the table's opportunity for us to you know rewrite the wrongs with history and giving Ligon a second chance and really re-imagine for the next seven 70 plus years. So with that I will adjourn our work session so we can can convene next door promptly at 5:30 on the dot. I heard that. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.