001What is it like? >> All right, everybody. Good afternoon. >> Uh, we do have our five folks here for quum. We have some other board members that are in the building but are experiencing some technical issues, getting either equipment worked on or uh completing some other duties and they'll be joining us as we go. Um I want to welcome everybody. This is our work session for August 19th, 2025. Uh today on our schedule, we'll have our transportation update with uh Mr. Bob Snide Miller. We'll hear from uh David Neer and his team about insurance in the school system. Um, and then we should wrap that up. If we are able to do so before 4:30, we may choose to go into close session to get a jump on some of the items we would normally
002address after session. All right. So, if we are ready, I will turn it over to Mr. Snive Miller. He'll present our 2526 transportation update. >> Thank you, Chair Hagerty. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to bring a brief um transportation update to you for the 2025 2026 school year. Um today we'll talk a little bit about bus driver recruitment and our staffing levels. We'll talk about the routes that are designed and ready to go for the 2526 school year. A little bit about vendor transportation. Um we'll update you on fleet maintenance and where what our bus fleet looks like right now. And then I also included a few slides just to um show you a comparison of how we stand on some statistics compared to uh the greater city schools, the larger school districts
003in the nation um as they're reported to us annually and then we'll just talk about next steps. So if we look at bus driver recruitment um as of last Thursday we had 605 filled bus driver positions that is 32 additional positions over where we were this time last year. Uh which I think is you know really really good news. Um the lower two numbers just indicate that we are continuing to be able to recruit and fill our um our pipeline uh for bus driver candidates. So in the July class, we had two classes in July. We had 26 who passed that class. Um and then our class um we confirmed 22 candidates to attend our first class in August. So we're averaging, you know, around that 22 25 somewhere in there that are actually making
004it through a class and then moving on. So that that is a strong pipeline for us. So the news the the good news is we we hope to continue to grow those numbers. So we continue to um carry forward with our strong marketing campaign. Um we're advertising via TV, radio, social media. Um the transportation group is working closely with our communications team and our HR team. Um that has been very productive and I think the numbers are reflecting that. Um, we do have a dedicated HR recruitment person which I think has been very very helpful in staying on top of those who make contact with us who become our candidates who then attend class and become bus drivers. Um, we continue our efforts in um retaining um bus drivers actually recruitment and retaining um by
005paying our bus driver um bonuses. Every bus driver has the opportunity to earn up to $4,000 a year in bonuses. Um, and the breakdown of those, if you remember, are it's a $1,000 retention bonus, and that is paid in their September pay. To qualify for that, they have to be a bus driver with us at the end of the last school year and come back to us for the beginning of this traditional calendar school year. We also have our oldest standing bonus um that we've offered bus drivers and that's $1,000 paid in $500 increments. One in the fir at the end of the first semester and one at the end of the second semester. And in addition to that, we have a $2,000 uh perfect attendance bonus that's paid at $200 per month every month
006that a bus driver has perfect attendance over the traditional calendar, which is a 10-month period. So they can earn up to $2,000 that way. So some good news again for you know the start of the school year. Um we do have every rider eligible rider assigned to a route with a permanent driver. Um we will continue to employ um just out of necessity the double backs that we run. will run the hub system out of the Enllo High School um hub and then al also the Southeast Raleigh hub will run that. Um and those work very well um for our magnet programs and we'll still have multi-school route, what we call multi multi-chool routes where we pair schools on the same bus um where that's possible to do to gain more efficiencies. We will um
007require schools to accept students again 40 minutes before the AM bell and hold some students 40 minutes after the bell. Um at whatever point we grow enough drivers that we can bring this back into the 30 minutes, we're looking to do that. Uh we know the hardships that it it you know it brings about and so we we are cognizant of that and we will continue to work on bringing that back into the 30 minute parameter. And as you know, we um we work with our technology team to develop the notification system for parents um when our buses are running behind schedule. We'll continue to use that. So, we'll post those late runs so that those push notifications go to parents to let them know um the situation when their bus is running late and
008how late that bus may be running. Next slide, please. Um, so we have 564 routes planned for next school year. That is seven more routes than what we ended the 2425 school year with. Um, we are excited about that because we were able to bring on the four new schools and only add seven routes over last year. Um, and a lot of that just has to do with how the students are signed and they're moving from one school to the new school. And so we were able to move bus runs from that school to the new school and offset all of that. So that worked out very well. Um and we're we're really excited about that. We have just under 90,000 registered riders. Um and I know the question always comes up, you know, how
009many actually ride compared to the the number that we have assigned. Um so as in any year, this is not unlike any other year. We have about we expect about 70% of those assigned to actually ride the bus um or be on the bus the week that we do the DPI count of our ridership on our buses. That is not a perfect science. Um so you know when I try to explain the difference between and the delta between 90,000 and 60,000 I talk about the 10 10 rule. um 10% of those that are assigned never intend to ride, but they signed up. And so we have to assign them to a bus because we don't yet know that they're not going to ride. Our bus drivers do a good job of identifying those schools or
010those students. And if they don't ride for more than 10 days, they report them and we remove them from the roster. Um we also know that students are going to we're moving into the fall sports um and and other activities. some students will be participating in that and they won't use the bus. So, we say that may be another 10%. And then just student absences. Um, and I'm I'm primarily talking about absences during the one week that we do our student count, which is normally the end of September, mid to end se end of September. And, you know, we count the students that show up. And so, we account we we say that that's probably another 10%. We don't know exactly, but probably roughly 10% of what we're missing in the 90,000 that are assigned.
011So, we are using our buses very very efficiently again this year. Um, and we're averaging 6.26 runs per bus, which means a bus will arrive at 6.26 campuses every morning and every afternoon. Um, we have 159 riders on average assigned to each bus. Next slide, please. So, I showed this slide. I I believe I know I did last year. I think I did in the prior year as well. Um, because I like showing the progress that the district is making in expanding that gap between the number of routes that we have planned versus the number of drivers that we have. And I already shared with you that we have 605 drivers today for 564 routes, which means that we've got 41 drivers that can act and and be substitute drivers for callouts and when other
012drivers are assigned drivers are absent. That's a good thing. That helps us with late buses and um keeping things on schedule every day. So again, the more we grow that number, the better off we are. Last year that gap was again it's 41 this year. Last year it was 34. So we are moving in the right direction. Next slide please. So talking a little bit about vendor transportation. A recap of last school year. Um we ended with 3,357 total riders and um primarily these are special needs students, prek students and McKini Bento students. Um we we have under contract this year and we did last year six vendors. Um our vendors last year were able to provide us with 240 drivers which means we could create 240 routes. Um, and we also, as you know,
013because we don't have enough vehicles to provide service to all students assigned, we have offered over the last few years the parent stipen for parents to transport their own child to school. Um, and that is growing significantly as well. So, we paid roughly 1,034 um families under the stipen at a cost of $2.3 million. Next slide, please. And I apologize, this was my typo. Um this should say vendor transportation 2025 2026. Um, so we are projecting 3,600ish riders um for this school year because we're growing typically by a couple hundred riders um each year and again those are the special needs prek and McKini Vento students. Um, I do want you the board to know that we have those six vendor contracts and within those contracts we do have 283 vehicles under contract and and
014right now our vendors are telling us that they can provide the same number of drivers they did last year which is 240. We are aggressively working with them to have them grow those drivers and do their recruitment, pay more if they have to do something to fulfill the language of your contract because we desperately need these other 43 vehicles on the road to provide services to our families. So, we'll continue to do that and see if we can't grow that number quickly as we move into the school year. And the the last bullet point is just really a projection based off of what we've seen over the last couple years with the stipen program. Um you know we we're estimating 1,200 families at a cost of 2.7 million. So going into next slide please. Going
015into talk a little bit about our fleet and the status of all of that. We were able to improve our mechanic vacancy rate um a little bit this year. We brought it down from 30% to 25% which added five mechanic positions. Um, and everyone makes a difference. So, you know, we are moving that in the right direction. It's slow, but at least it's moving in the right direction. Um, all of our buses go through a preventative maintenance program. All of our route buses are up to speed and ready to to start school on the 25th. Um, as you know, a lot of them are out there now already. Um, so those are also in good shape. So 95% of our fleet is operable. About 5% of our fleet is in need of repair. Um, but
016that's pretty typical at any time during the school year. And so we continue to work on those. Um, but I want you to know that we do have plenty of spare buses behind our route buses that we will not not have buses to transport students on any given day. Um, we're also, as you know, piloting the propane buses. So, we ordered another five buses, which will bring us up to 15 propane buses. Um, we're getting positive feedback from our techs on on those buses. They like them, low maintenance. Um, of course, they're all new, so, you know, we need to hold on to them, put some miles on them before we really know. But right now, um, everything is looking good with the propane propane program. And next slide, please. Um, this is another chart
017that I'd just like to show. Um, these numbers, um, just showing that our buses are in good good repair and in good shape. Um, every year DPI does an annual inspection of our buses. They'll come out and inspect 10% of our fleet. Um, so they'll inspect roughly 60 to 63 buses um, right now. and they go through and they check like 240 items on these buses and any any one of those that doesn't isn't up to par will park a bus. That's an automatic 50 points on a bus. So when you're looking at a fleet of 850 buses with, you know, an average score of 25.78, I I feel like that's a really good number. Um and that I feel confident that our buses are in good repair and are safe and ready to go.
018Next slide, please. So, this is where we get into the stats comparing us to some of the larger districts in the nation. Um, the first one is on time performance. Um, this information we pull from the the bus updates that, you know, we're doing on the web that push out the notifications to parents. And that data showed that 98.43% of all of our arrivals were on time through last school year. Um, I actually I actually know this is a fact that that number is better than that because we are posting things that we we think are going to be late. We're not positive, but we want to give that notice. And so sometimes things catch up and the bus is not actually late. So I don't know what that number is exactly, but I know
019it's better than 98.43, but even at that number, I think we fare pretty well in comparison. The next stat is the um I'm sorry, next slide, please. Miles between accidents. Um we are very proud of this statistic. Um you can see that in a good way. We are really off the charts. We travel 13 million miles on our buses every year and we average 135,000 miles between accident. And we wish it were more. We're working for it to be more. Um, but I think our drivers do a great job in keeping our kids safe and and preventing accidents. And the statistic shows that. Next slide, please. This is um daily runs per bus. I showed you that for the planned runs for this next school year or the current school year. Um, we're at 6
020point 6.26 runs per bus. That did not include our middays. But in this data, you're to include every run that a bus does, including midday runs. Um, and so this is last year's data, and it's at 7.09. If we included our middays in the 25 26 data, um, I think we would be real close to the seven runs per bus. And, uh, after being in this industry for 17 years, I can tell you that that is an efficient routing model. Next slide, please. So, I also wanted to show you our our ride times um as they are planned in the system um compared to other districts. And obviously, we want to keep that ride time down for our students. And you can see on our yellow bus um um yellow buses that we average 21
021minutes per student for ride time and that's well below the other large districts in the nation. The next slide, please, is our special needs transportation and they average 31 minutes per ride. Um, which also fares well against, um, large other large districts. And from here, um, really the thing for us is just to continue to recruit yellow bus drivers and vendor drivers. This is um everything is in good shape and and well under control. We just need more drivers to be able to do more. So we'll continue to work with that. And that is my presentation, Chair Hagerty, and I'm happy to take any questions. All right. Just making last minute notes there. I appreciate it. Um, I have some questions that were submitted to us, um, that I would like to ask you, but
022before I ask those, I'll go around the table and just ask board members for questions they might have. Miss Mafy. >> Yes. Thank you. This is good news, welcome news compared to previous school years. So, congratulations to you and your team um for getting us here and acknowledging that there's more work ahead, but we can certainly celebrate this piece. Um my question is on slide 10 when it comes to our mechanic vacancy rates. Um knowing that that's really high and where we are compared to their market rates for a commercial mechanic. Um about what percentage of our mechanics stay at Rocky Road and how many of them are the ones that will go to the site um whether it be the high school where the bus is parked or out in the field if there's
023a bus on the side of the road. >> Yeah, that's a good question. And I was just thinking about that before I came in. Um, it used to be that so right now we have about 75 mechanics or 70 mechanics. Um, and about 20 of them stay back in the garage and all they do is PM work and we bring the buses in from the field from them. The other are our field techs and then they are assigned about 30 buses a piece out there including activity buses. So we also service the school activity buses out in the field. So it's about a 2050 split um between those that do preventative and those that do field work. >> So those 23 positions that we still need to do is split between those two pieces or
024is it exclusively one or the other? >> It's primarily the field techs. um we find it harder to hire them quite frankly because they are out in the field and they are literally out in the weather um working and that sort of thing. So that is a challenge for us. Um but yeah, those vacancies lie mostly out there. >> Thank you so much. >> Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Miss Russ. >> Uh thank you um for your presentation. I just have a few questions on a few slides. Um slide five, schools will receive bus rides up to 40 minutes before the um morning bell. I was just wondering um what are the plans for school um base for students standing out in the weather and safety? Um and I know that many of our schools
025don't have um don't have coverage 30 minutes prior to opening um for students to enter into the building even in the lobby. So, I don't know if that's a question for our superintendent or area soups or whoever it is to answer when it concerns that. Um, I've been in the district for a while as well. Um, and I see that as a reoccurring situation. I've seen children having they don't have a place to go. Um, no matter what the weather is and they're not allowed inside the school building, even in the lobby. So, I think that's just um moving us in that customer service direction and our students actually being the ones that we're servicing. How do we service them better? How do we make it really feel welcomed and make them feel safe um
026and prevent illness and things of that nature? Me having a former child in the district who literally could not stand outside in the cold. Um those things are that matter. Um and the other thing I have is also we're talking about um when we talk about provide clear and timely communication um to all affected schools and the families which is the bus update process. Um can you share with me how we're defining timely and like how long ago were parents con contacted prior to today um about their transportation uh time um or bus if they even have one. So those were um my first two sets of questions for for slide five. >> So let's do this. Mr. Sneller, if you could address the communication question and then Dr. Taylor, if you have any comment
027on the students and their shelter before school, it'd be I think more appropriate for you to address that. >> Okay. And and thank you for the question. Um so around communication we 10 days our rule is 10 days before the school year starts um we will communicate with that calendar their bus information and so that'll be posted to infinite campus I believe is the new system um it used to be power school so I'm used to saying that um it will be posted to their account 10 days before and so we did the same thing with modify before that and we did the same thing with year round before that. So that's how we communicate out the um the actual information as far as where is your stop and what time is it and all
028of that. And then as we begin the transporting the students for their school year, um our folks in the field, our district administrators work with their teams and whenever they recognize that a bus will be running more than 10 minutes behind schedule, they will post that to the web. And so it could be I I believe we've got it set up in increments of like 10 minutes to 20 minutes or 20 minutes to 30 minutes, something like that, or more than 30 minutes. Please don't quote me on that. I'd have to go back and look, but we have them posted in increments and my staff know that process a whole lot better than I do. Um, but they are adamant about posting that so that that gets notified to the school and and then those
029the routes or the runs that they post to that um it's such a slick system of technology built up that we have the student riders tied to that run with all of their contact information. So, it takes those actual riders and takes their contact information and pushes out that notification to to those contact numbers um and notifies them that way. >> All right. And then Dr. T. >> Okay. And so with uh before and after that is part of the extended care that we do. Uh and so I know that um uh the past two years we've actually paid employees to be there to provide that service before and after school. Uh each school knows that they're going to have a designated time that a student can arrive uh before that. So in other words,
030we want to have kids that are dropped off at 5:30 in the morning. So each school will identify uh the earliest that they can drop those kids off. Uh if there's an issue with a student uh not having proper uh cover from the weather, then with how they deal with that individual schools, try and determine uh what that issue may be. But it's always staff is going to be there before and after. Uh, one of the things we did go back and look at was uh what was that before and after extended daycare time like for uh low performing schools versus non-l low performing schools because you know that was a question that the board had. Um, and we saw that about 18% of those students were in low performing schools and the other 82
03183% were in other schools. uh and so uh we always want to make sure that there's there's equity in terms of how we address uh the needs of different students, but it is uh coverage that's provided before and after school. Uh uh Mr. Williams, I know you as a as an area superintendent. Do you want to share any additional information about that coverage in the morning when students are dropped off? >> Yeah, and we know it used to be 30 minutes before, 30 minutes after, it's gone to 40 minutes. Glad we get it back down. Um but yes, the extended care is what we've had in place for the last couple of years and I know um area superintendent have kind of endorsed that wanted to continue with that particular aspect. So I'm glad you
032asked the question but that's what we've had in place for the last couple years. >> Follow up chair >> please. Um, so with our 10day transportation um, information, do we find that that's effective um, for families who need to try to prepare to find a way for their children to get to and from school? Um, when they thought they had transportation uh, and then all of a sudden now they find out um, just the 10 days. Is there any reasonable accommodations that we can make? maybe moving forward to think about how do we plan ahead. I know it's a large task around transportation, but from what I hear, it sounds like we're doing marvelous around our buses now that we have um space um around that. So, I don't know what does that tweak look
033like for parents who while we appreciate them being a part of our magnet programs and we want them to um excel in that process um and it and we do they do have levels of responsibility that they do have to take their children to and from school but for I understand that we've got some magnet um families now who thought they had transportation and no longer have transportation and they're now finding out a week before school. And so I have a challenge with that process in which we've done. I know we aim for 10 days. Not quite sure if everybody got their information in 10 days considering we having some significant challenges with Infinite Campus um and its processes on the state level. So I I do understand that. And then um just my final
034question around buses is is there a shortage um because it sounds like we don't have a shortage anymore. Um, so I'm just wondering, have we hit the sweet spot now with the numbers that you that you've shared? Um, do we do we have over what we need? Do we have under what we need or we now currently at the sweet spot with our buses? So, we shouldn't have to have I saw something here too about still doing double backs. So, really, do we have what we need at capacity? And then how many double backs are we going to continue? I saw that. um to can you do? So when I heard you say, "Oh, we've got this. If bus drivers are not there, we've got 40 bus drivers over." So I'm trying to make sure
035that I understand for clarity where we are. Um do we still need to continue to push and move? Um to make sure that students are are picked up um in reasonable timings and and reasonable hours. And um the key thing for me since we're talking about buses and them coming about where we are and if we have substitutes is will we continue to have the same challenge this year because I've seen it for the past two years that I've sat on the board that students are being picked up 20 minutes before the bell rings the final bell and that's being picked up and they still got to get to school. They don't have an opportunity to eat breakfast. didn't have opportunity to do anything but try to rush to classes. So, I'm wondering with this
036great news that we have um did we solve those problems in the process considering we now have 40 substitute bus drivers that we can use for work? >> Sorry, it's it's compact, but this is important and school starts in about 7 days, right? >> Yeah. And it it really is a good question and I I personally would say we're not close to the sweet spot. >> Um from what I've heard our customers want, I mean our principles, our administrators, our parents and and even our riders um the sweet spot based on the parameters we route on right now giving us the 40minut what we call window in the morning and the afternoon um would really be to have at least two substitute bus drivers in each one of our districts. We have 23 districts. So
037that would be 46 substitute drivers. That helps us cover a 10%, you know, well about a 7% vacancy rate every day. If we can cover our routes, we can always be timely with those. The way the routes are established are not ideal because of the 40 minutes, you know, before and the 40 minutes after. And so just to move from that, we would have to add, and I'm I'm not even going to throw out a number because the system is so complex, we would have to run it through the system to figure out exactly how many buses we would have to do to pull everything within the 30 minutes. Um but I can share with you, you talked about um the double backs race and I know the last time we looked at it we
038had over 183 I think around 183 first tier double back runs to eliminate all double backs that means we would need 183 buses to split those runs um so that we wouldn't have to run double backs anymore and then those same bus 183 buses would be used on second and third tier to eliminate those double bags. So, that would be the magic number. I would I mean, I say to get to a sweet spot of where once upon a time we were, um we're looking at over 200 additional bus drivers from where we're at. That would be ideal. >> And and uh Bob, I'm not for sure how far you can go back, but if you were to go back um 10 or 12 years, what was the the largest number of drivers you recall
039us having? I remember when I came into this position 17 years ago, we had 930 bus drivers. >> Okay. And so that's kind of what I remember that uh if you think about uh salaries in the market and and and people competing for jobs, there were just a whole lot more drivers available, but that number's really gone down. And so when we talk about that sweet spot, it really is well beyond the number that we have now. Uh but the routes have to be developed based on the number of available drivers. That's that's really what kind of drives everything. Um I know she asked a question about the 10 days. So I do want to kind of have you speak to that. I do know that uh 10 days is sort of the industry standard
040uh in terms of a person uh requesting a bus uh than that route having to be done. Uh we really do hope that you can get it in less than 10 days. I've actually had instances that you and others have shared about kids who had an extended time of being of having being assigned a route and so we were able to work that. Uh and so I know that's the standard. Uh but sometimes it can be less than that. Uh we really don't want situations where it goes well beyond that. Uh so if you could speak to that uh but I and and specifically with uh the magnet transportation um and I'll let the magnet staff speak to this but my understanding is that uh if there was an assignment with the magnet that was
041given well ahead of the normal 10 days in uh being assigned to us. So if you know that magnet assignment if we made changes in transportation that wouldn't have been in that 10-month window 10day window but I'll I'll go back and make sure we look at that. you just stole my thunder and and that's what I know about it too that you know the board approved the student assignment for the year and then that's pushed out in like I want to say January February so students know where they're going to attend school they know what they're eligible for in regard to transportation so if you are magnet students you may be eligible you may not be eligible you may be eligible for neighborhood buses you may be eligible for express busing and so all of
042that is in that information that goes out to them, you know, late winter, latest. Um, and then we look at them as being waiting for us to finalize our routing so that we can say, "Hey, this is your stop time basically." And that's the information that they get 10 10 days before their calendar starts, but they know where they're going to be attending school and and what they are eligible for as far as transportation goes. Um so um those that are not eligible um and you gave the example of the ENL student, every student can apply for transportation and we're always happy to look to see if we can accommodate those students um and we do wherever we can. So there's always that opportunity as well. >> Right. And just I'm sorry chair. >> We
043are over time on this issue >> and I would like to let some other board members ask some questions. We'll come back around. >> Um Miss Cfield. Now, I just wanted to um ask you the bonuses that we're giving out. So, I appreciate that we're giving them opportunities and and incentives to kind of do that. I know we've addressed it once before is kind of a little bit too new. Do we have an update on is that like is it helping or we do we have an improved attendance? >> We do. Um yes, we definitely have improved attendance and I want to say we're hovering right around almost half of our drivers qualify for that. um $200 bon $200 bonus every month. Um and about the same for the 500 per semester. Um without that,
044I fear that it would be worse. Um so is it help? It's not perfect, but I do believe that it's helping. >> That it's helping. Okay. Thank you. And then my other question was you said at one point we had 939 bus drivers. >> 930 is just >> Okay. So 930 around there. Um, do we have we kind of tried to evaluate what was the difference between then and now? >> I mean, I know pay is always going to be a concern. Um, but there's other factors, I'm sure. So, do we >> try to evaluate that? Can we try and do something with that where we can evaluate like what >> the feedback was then and what it is now? Like what do we need to work on? So I what I think I can
045share with this is a lot of reporters have done this story because what was happening here is a nationwide issue and what reporters have pointed to Wall Street Journal specifically did an article about this like eight or nine years is think about how the world's changed in the last 10 years. There are a lot more jobs for drivers. Amazon, Uber, all of the delivery systems that now our world functions in that didn't exist a decade ago. Um, that that is I don't know, we haven't done any studies, but when reporters do the store, that's usually what they point to, right? And, you know, I'm I'm sure there is a difference. You know, working for Amazon, I've never met an Amazon guy that's not smiling and dancing his way up to my door. Um, but I'm
046just trying to see like how can we improve the environment that we can because we do have a really good benefit package for our bus drivers as well. So, um, just trying to see how we can make it that we can compare apples to apples and see where we can improve. >> Thank you. Miss >> um, a comment and a question. Um, so the question first, you didn't talk about the um, oh my goodness, it's going out of my brain. The the folks on our buses that are helping with behavior issues. I'm I'm blanking on. >> Thank you. Um, can't get my words together today. Anyway, not for today, but can we get um some feedback on that um at another time because I don't I don't I'm not asking to hold us up, but
047I just noted that you didn't bring that up and wondered um you know what impact that has, if we need more, if we need stable, etc. And then a comment. Um I just wanted to I was thinking about our budget challenges. Um this past year, this spring and in the discussion um here and in community, there was some talk and comments about like things that are not directly in the classroom. Um, and I just wanted to compliment how and appreciate the value of the HR person specifically dedicated to follow up with people that inquire about driving and that I think we see a direct benefit to something. And that's just an example of somebody that that we need on staff and that does help. Certainly, if we can get kids to school, that helps the
048classroom, but it's not a classroom staff member. That was all. Thank you. >> Great point. Um I had a couple questions submitted. I wanted to ask you really quickly. Um with traditional calendar schools starting on next week, will there be any impact on our year round routes where any routes that did not have a double back may suddenly get a double back or any other things that parents need to be prepared for at any of our year- round schools? >> Yeah. So, we when we start year- round schools, we intentionally run those buses on the schedule that they're going to be on or that we think they're going to be on when traditional school opens. Now, that's not to say that now that we have the full everything in full swing and we're transporting all
049of our students to all schools that first week or so, everything will run slow. Um, just like it does for year round schools, but nobody notices that because they're the only ones in. But as our traditional calendar buses begin to roll, they'll roll a little bit slow because, you know, students and parents will have questions and concerns at bus stops and bus drivers will be checking bus tags and all of those types of things that we have to do in in the name of safety. Um so things will run, but then everything settles in um typically within a week, but on the far end um you know, a couple weeks. I will say too um Mr. integity that we may have a little bit of overcrowding on some buses because we over assign students to
050buses intentionally and we monitor those loads and uh if a bus is overcrowded we will make those adjustments um and that's completely legal and permitted by the state and so you know those are the things that we use in our strategies to optimize our resources. >> Thank you. Um, again talking about the numbers and trying to optimize routes. At this point, are there any schools where we predict students might regularly arrive after the starting bell? Again, you never know when there's going to be a breakdown or someone's going to be late or delayed, but you know, in past years, we actually had a systematically we knew that there were some schools where there would be a delay. Are we aware of any challenges like that right now? So, nothing that we can predict, but I
051will tell you that we are pushing the the the morning bell on some arrivals that if that bus gets delayed, we could be at risk for coming in after the bell. And again, those things are what we'll watch and we'll make the adjustments on those. Um, but that would be a smaller percentage of our lines if you want category. The other two questions we received may actually be better for either Dr. Taylor or Miss Luton. Um, Miss Luton, what information have we shared with families about the new cell phone policy as it relates to buses? >> Oh, that I I'm looking at Sarah. I I don't know that we shared information that your ex families to our web page that outlines here's what you do with cell phone on that site. But we can certainly
052um we have many opportunities to elevate the different messaging as we move through the year. So that can be fun. >> Okay, great. Thank you. And then um Dr. Taylor, if there was a there was a question, you know, we'd had with the regular late arrivals, we tried different strategies to try to address instructional time that might have been lost, the learning labs and some things. It sounds like we're not predicting anything systematically with predictable late arrivals, but is there any strategy in place that we could look at to deal with that if that becomes a problem? >> And so again, it goes back to the extended care and right now we uh can identify uh the time frame that buses will have those double runs and kind of predict what that time is going
053to be. Uh but if there's any issue that that um deals with buses coming in late uh then we will have to go back and determine how we can best address that. But right now there's nothing that we've seen that we can ultimately if a student arrives late uh then there's really no way that you can make up that instructional time. Uh and so we'll have to think about if there are kids that may need remediation or something if there's a particular time that they've missed that is important. Uh but right now we do have a good idea of when buses are going to come and that's usually early in the morning uh and then in the afternoon when it's late but um if if the bus actually arrives late there's really no way that
054you can make that time but we'll we'll be sure to examine that though. >> All right, coming back around. M questions. >> Oh no. I I just had a statement in reference to following up to um Mr. Startler's uh statement about the magnet processes and it was really more geared toward the twoe notice. We all understand that once a student is assigned through the magnet process that they're mostly usually responsible for their own transportation unless it come with it. I was really referencing the fact of the piece when they are supposed to get transportation and then it's it's changed. So that's not always the 10day. Um, but I agree with um the question that was um that was sent to you around um I would really like to see us a little bit more proactive
055um around the cell phone policy piece considering this is something that is uh new for everyone. Um again, I'll reiterate my stance on the well-being of students because it is something it is an addictive behavior. We should really have a whole campaign around pushing this and what it looks like in school and to help students become acclimated and help their brains begin to process um not only just the students but the staff as well with this process and particularly with the buses um and how that might look with your drivers. I don't know if the staff itself has had conversations with the drivers. Hey, this is what the policy is so that they're aware. So they're not writing up students in a way that's affecting them that goes outside the scope of what we've laid
056out in policy to do as followup and reminders. And so I just want to continue to encourage our communications department um to be mindful of these areas so that we can make sure that families have a successful year. >> All right. Thank you. All right, Mr. Sneller, thank you. We appreciate the update, all your continued work. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Next, we'll switch over Mr. Neer if you and your team are ready. Yes. The presentation mode. Hello. Yeah, I don't feel my leg. Well, good afternoon. We're getting queued up here and believe David's going to um kick us off, but I'd first like to introduce um Mr. Nathan Barnett. He is our new senior director for the risky management team. And I believe you heard from Miss Phil before. She's Trish. I'm Trisha. So
057that does not get confusing. And she's also TP and so am I. Um but we uh we will be providing an update. Well, actually not an update, but uh update kind of where we are with our insurance. We'll be looking at some policies um where what we've migrated and um also what still needs to be migrated. But I will turn it over to Mr. Ne. >> Thank you, Miss Posey. And good afternoon, everyone. Um, >> yeah, we're having a little technical difficulty. So, I'm going to introduce this, then I will turn it over to the team, and I will take the unimportant role of advancing slides over there in the corner that still be available. Um, again, as Miss Posie said today, just want to give the board, and I don't know that we've ever
058done this before, at least since I've been a part of the district, which is a while now. um provide any background really about the different insurance um programs that we participate in as a legal organization as a part of a riskmanagement strategy to ultimately to protect the district and the district's interests fiscal and other interests. So today again we want to take maybe 20 minutes or so give you a brief background on how insurance plays a role but only a portion of a role in an overall riskmanagement strategy. Want to review with you the different types of insurance that we carry as um as a district whether or not they're required. Most of them are not legally required. Some of them are um and again share with you how this is really this being the
059insurance component is really only one leg of a multi-legged tool if you will in managing risk. If we could go to the next slide. So just the next couple slides just sort of a primer. What is risk management? Well, it's a process of identifying, assessing, and addressing financial, legal, strategic, and security risks. And it's not limited to those, to an organization. And risks, as I believe everyone knows, can stem from a multitude of sources. Financial uncertainty, we're certainly in the midst of that. Although, again, as I look backwards over 18 years, I'm not sure when I ever know that we have not been in the midst of that. It just changes flavors. Um, legal liabilities, technology use, and I can't say that 20 years ago, technology was not a potential liability as it is today.
060Financial or cyber fraud and cyber extortion did not exist as a business entity 20 years ago, at least not in a widespread manner. Strategic management errors, um, accidents and natural disasters are other examples of risks and risk management practices. Their intent is to anticipate as best possible these potential threats and establish plans to manage them and effectively mitigate the impact of them. not eliminate the impact but mitigate the impact and insurance is one of the many components of an overall risk management plan. So next slide please. So what is Insurance in general is a way to protect an organization or even an individual from the financial impact of unexpected events. A regular fee, usually called a premium, is paid to a third party, an insurance company, and in exchange, they agree to help cover the
061costs. If something bad happens, that's covered by the policy. It's very generally, one can't predict the future. Accidents happen, people get sick, and things get damaged. These bad things can become very expensive. Insurance helps spread the risk instead of a single organization or person bearing the full cost of repairing the damage or replacing what was damaged. Many people are paying into a pool towards an insurance company and then if it's covered that pool helps pay for cover for the individual participant. It's a safety net. You hope you never have to use it, but it's there to catch you if you fall and prevent prevent essentially a disaster. Even with insurance, when you fall into that net, you still may get hurt. You may twist an ankle. You may even break a leg falling into that
062net. But otherwise, you might likely not be on the planet anymore. Not in a living state at least. So, little background on that. Next slide, please. I'm going to um transition now, Trish, to you and your team. So, that's a little background, very lay person's terms, and we're going to get a little more granular now about insurance and insurance with the Wake County School System. >> Great. Thank you, David. Perfect. So, why does insurance matter? Our insurance covers over 180,000 individuals, our students, staff, drivers, and even our volunteers. It's required in some cases, as Mr. Neer shared with you, under general statute and board of education policies. Having coverage protects taxpayer funds and ensures compliance with applicable laws. David, are you going to be Nope, you got it. All right, maybe. All right. Um, so
063the key WCPSS insurance polic or insurance policies. Yeah, they're working. There we go. Uh, and so we've migrated three policies. So, the board's had an opportunity to review uh the general statutes associated with coverage of policies, um, who they impact. So, our student accident and catastrophic insurance programs. We also have insurance for students, transportation services as well as a workers's compensation policy was migrated. Policies that um are pending migration. You'll see that there are four policies. There was a policy, it's listed as liability that we left off of the slide. It's 8710 liability policy. It's from the 1970s. So, we definitely need to um to look at uh getting in that pathway of migrating these policies over. Uh so, you'll see there's work to be done with our policies on insurance, but we uh currently
064comply with the law laws within the state of North Carolina, any federal laws that are applicable, and um of course any board policies that are migrated and to be migrated. I'm going to turn it over to Miss Phil and she'll talk about types of coverages that we have and then Mr. Barnett will go into our current coverages and what we ensure as well as um some information about our premiums. Just as other departments follow the purchasing rules for having services bid out, we do the same thing with our insurance. And so approximately every three to five years we might have a new insurance broker. So the last time we put it out for bid I believe was in school year. So we are still working with the broker from that time period. Involved in that
065process is just the typical uh guidelines that are followed for all bids that are sent out for services within the school system. We also have a third party who reviews. We have a consultant who works with us to make sure that we are in line with what the market is saying. Um, and just to make sure that we have also an outside opinion of the coverages that we have and what is offered to us in a proposal. So, I'm glad to share with you a highlevel overview of some of the coverages that we do have. Um, naturally you're familiar with general liability and it mentions what it covers on the screen, which is to make sure that we're covered for bodily injury, property damages, and premises liability. It's the type of coverage that you're most
066familiar with when you go into close session sometimes. So, that's the coverage that we depend on for our large lawsuits. We also have a coverage that's titled errors and emissions. Um, and that is used when we might have errors. As an example, if we might make an error in our hiring practices, that's the type of insurance that would be used to cover that. We have law enforcement liability as well. Um, and that provides an extra layer of protection should the district need it if a municipality or a county does not afford enough coverage. Uh, this might be needed for contractual obligations as well. And then the umbrella is what uh may provide us and give us ex extended lines. Um it's a secondary layer of coverage. And if you can just imagine an umbrella, it
067is over the other liability coverages. We'll move on to another type of coverage you might have heard more about, especially if you've had students in the school system. We do purchase and we put this out for bid as well. student accident insurance. We have two types of coverages that the school system pays for. We have a base coverage for student athletes, uh, marching band members, and it mentions all of the different categories, cheerleaders, JRTC participants while they're in a school sponsored activity that's supervised. Also, along with that base coverage, which is not on your slide, is that does provide protection for students who are on school trips as well. We do also have the catastrophic coverage for our athletics. We've had that for many years, as long as I've been around, uh for middle school.
068And then some years ago, we picked up the high school athletics for football. In addition to those coverages that we purchase for our students, we make available to our parents, the voluntary coverage. If you if you had students in the school system, you might have known years ago when we sent home lots of paperwork in the first Tuesday folder, that was a flyer that let parents know we had that type of insurance available for them to purchase. And so we do have parents who on their own purchase an accident insurance for their student. It's very affordable as well. And it might be of interest to you to know that we push that out actually on every website. It's very important that parents know that. So we work with communications to make sure that is on
069the website. So moving to a different type of coverage, we certainly uh have a large fleet which you might be aware of. Um we have we cover our activity buses. Of course we have full size and mini buses that we would call activity buses. We also have service vehicles. So we have about 820 vehicles of which we ensure that would be considered our main auto fleet. We do have a separate policy for our driver's ed fleet and so we manage that separately but it is the same coverage and we have about 110 driver's ed vehicles. So we'll talk about something that you're also very familiar with. We are required by law to have workers compensation insurance. We have a we are self-insured for our staff at Wake County Public School System. Some of the bullet
070points mentioned that it is required under North Carolina law. It does provide coverage for uh state the state provides the coverage for any claim that is for a state employee. Also the it covers the injuries and liabilities for school employees. Um we do have a self- retention limit and so we've had that for quite a few years. It is at 850,000 for the self-retired the selfinsured retention. And then I want to mention a little bit about our property insurance. And so we do have 6.6 6 billion in property value at Wake County Public School System. This property insurance covers our buildings, our equipment. It covers uh electronics to the sense of something like a server room. We're not talking about individual computers. Um uh our fine arts also is covered in that category. We do
071have NFIP, National Flood Prevention Flood Coverage for high-risisk zones such as Vernon Malone. We might have been around twice. >> We think that was a fluke, but it did happen. Um, and that just gives you a general view of the insurance that's purchased right now by the school system. Do you want us to do one? >> Yeah, do that, please. >> Thank you. >> For our next presentation, we'd like to go over the our insurance portfolio uh for the uh school year 2526 with an increase in our schools and our liabilities. Uh our premiums in total now are $9.5 million. And as you can see the coverages we have are cards ones that Trisha u Trish described to us. The liability the property the cyber which is very important especially with AI coming on workers
072compensation any specialized risk we have outside of a norm uh like you know if we decide to build something that's not exactly to code and we need to have it have it fixed. uh employee theft uh internally and student accident insurance at any level. Uh this diagram that Trish made for us, it shows how our our uh premiums are allocated. As you can see, our largest exposure is our property mainly because we have a lot of it. And uh the the the premiums on this uh property insurance is governed by uh increase in property value year-over-year. And as you see, the next largest one is the uh general liability as well as um Arizona emissions. So that those can be hum human error um against against the the county or internally. Okay. As David had
073said before, a strategy to um insurance is only a part of the strategy to manage our fiscal risk. We also have to employ safety, training and other means to protect our financial um assets. There are times when coverage is required by state. It could be required by contracts. It could be required by other obligations. Um compliance also comes into play as part of a tool to manage business continuity. Whereas if we have a we have a disruption in our in our um schools being able to be used or utilized if our if we have a breakdown in any kind of uh policy as it could be anything. It could be from electrical engineering, could be from property engineering, it could be from schools being built. So we have to manage it and sometimes we share
074the risk and sometimes we transfer the risk. We also have to be compliant with state and federal laws as Trisha had gone over. Uh our insurancees do help us in that respect as long as it's not negligent on our part and district safeguards for our assets and our fus fiduciary responsibilities. Excuse me, my throat's dry. Um so what we want to do is make sure that our insuranceances are examined year-over-year. Make sure any risks that come to the surface are we're aware of or covered in some manner. Whether it be whether it be acceptance, uh mitigation of the loss, transfer of the loss, or just cut the loss out all together, the risk all together. >> Thank you very much. >> I think you kind of summarize it a little bit. Um so as staff
075has may know as well as Mr. ator uh insurance is only one component of the risk management plan. Uh so the team under Mr. Barnett and as well as Miss Billbrook as director uh you know we have safety teams out there in the schools. We have safety plans and so the team is very robust and active in getting out into the fields and identifying where we may have safety risk. Um so that is a big part of um the risk management team as well. Um so having those safety and compliance protocols as well as training. Uh last year I think you were aware that last school year but earlier this fis this calendar year we did a riskmanagement training. Uh we had a representative from each one of our schools in the administrator roles. Uh
076so I believe some were assistant principles, others were principles, but they did attend the training. uh we had the fire marshals there as well as our uh insurance um provider and um so it was really great to engage with everyone and and speak about that and Dr. Robert P. Taylor also presented uh to to the group uh just to share how important it is into managing um the risk in our schools uh and the safety the safety piece. So, electrical wires, uh extension cords across the room, uh those types of things. Um that was a big thing that we saw in some of the photos from our fire marshals. Uh but the safety and compliance protocols and trainings is very important. Uh the third party reviews that helps us um ensure that whatever we bring
077to the board, it is been vetted. We know that we're getting competitive rates with other large districts our size as well as the premiums as they increase because we see this in our personal lives but insurance premiums are going up that they are reasonable and in some cases we've gone back and negotiated lower rates. Um so that isn't a very um advantageous partnership that we have and in having that third party review. Um, so maintenance related to safety, prevention, tone at the top. Um, those are all things that we're very focused on as a risk management team. Um, and we'll open it up to any questions you may have for us. >> If I could just go back very quickly. Um, want to just emphasize some things that you shared. You know, as I think
078about safety, as we think about safety as a district, we are, as we've said, and know a large large district over 200 schools, 160,000 beyond people that during the day are our responsibility from a safety standpoint. They're on our property, so to speak. So, whose responsibility is it? all of ours. The risk management team is just a focal point and I could count them unless the two hands and it's really they're just a focal point to help everybody within our organization manage our safety program, conduct our bills, etc. And then the other point I just want to emphasize on um the third party reviews these contracts are put out every 3 years and we when we do that as a part of it as as cozy shared we engage a third party to assist us
079in evaluating those and also with that and this is true in the insurance industry whether it's personal organ organizational, private sector, public sector. These rates are going up faster than inflation on both the property side as well as the liability side. What's driving that? on the property side, nationwide and really internationally, national disasters that are being paid off by insurance companies across the world. The payout based on national disaster. We had one in this state not too long ago. They had one in Los Angeles not too long ago. Catastrophic casualties. And again, insurance, if it's a pool and you've got different people paying in and insurance companies taking that pool and then covering their constituents, if you will, they've got to be able to pay out that pool or they're going to go bankrupt. They
080have to make a profit, too. If they're going to stay in business and on the liability side, not so much the property side, we live in an ever increasingly latigious society. and I'll leave my comment at that. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Neer, and thank you, Steph. We have, you know, it's it's it's not typically a topic that people wake up in the morning and get excited about wanting to come out and talk about, but it's really important because it reaches everything that we do. Um, I had some questions. Mr. actually addressed a lot of them there toward the end about the rising rates and how it is something that is a constant budget issue for us every year as rates continue to rise. It was kind of shocking to me to see that
081of our insurance costs, 64% of it were property and property related taxes. Um, and as we continue to grow and acquire new property and build new schools, that expense is going to go up and the the rate of insuring all those facilities are going to go up. Um, one thing and you know we're over our a loted time but when we talk about risk management in a board context one of the areas where it comes up the most often and staff you all have heard this repeatedly and you're going to hear this a lot in your new role is well why can't we do this why can't we do that why can't we offer this particular student activity so I appreciate in breaking out the insurance you talked about the student accident coverage and if
082I recall you said that it is put out for bids separately. This insurance covers base student athletics, cheerleaders, RTC, the field trips also I'm guessing student clubs, anything that would be extracurricular or >> it would depend on the activity. >> Okay. >> So I'd have to follow up on that. >> Okay. >> Be happy to do that for you. So, if we can go back, I'm sorry I pulled you away from the slides, but if you've got the clicker, um, that chart on page 13, I I I again, I thought this was really informative. $95 million in expenses in 2526, but one of the one of the categories we don't see here is that student activity insurance. You see it listed there on 12, but you don't see it on 13. So, where does that
083fall? Is that a subset or another? Or do you have an estimate on how much that student activity accident coverage costs? >> And to clarify, it's hard to see on the screen. The premiums were 9 and a half about 9.5. >> 9.5. Okay. I will attribute that to my bad vision. >> Now, there are other those are just the premiums. That does not include paying a deductible for claims. >> Sure. Or anything else. >> Okay. But let's go back to this student accident coverage that you have there and that you described because often times that's the one that we hear most insurance related issues about from the public. >> Do you know what the expense is either by percentage or dollars? >> I do. The um student accident insurance that the district pays for was
084approximately $130,599 for this upcoming school year. >> Okay. And that's divided between the base coverage and then the catastrophic. >> Okay. >> And so again, if if I'm ch I think I'm channeling board questions here, but if I'm not, please stop me. I think a lot of board members often ask when we see other school districts around the state. No one's as large as us, but larger districts and very small districts that have maybe like a rock climbing club or uh like a sailing club or a skateboarding club. And we're told, well, we can't do it because it would increase our insurance costs. And then, you know, we know that we're trying to cut budgets and be fiscally responsible, but do we have an idea if if these other districts are doing this? Do we
085know or can the board be informed about what it might take to go to that next level of insurance that would allow some more of these activities that other districts are engaging in and that are offered to private schools and charter schools? So, so Mr. Chair, that's a that's a great question. I'm glad that you asked and I know the staff will follow up on that, but we have had those conversations about >> uh in many cases those districts may have a different carrier uh that may have a different expectation in terms of what they will or will not cover. So, there have been specific activities that we've actually spoke to the carrier about uh and they've expressed that that's not something that we would cover or that if you did engage in that activity,
086it might cause us to now not provide any coverage or um there are some things that they're going to share with us. Uh so, we can certainly uh uh have those conversations with the district about who is your carrier. Uh is there an opportunity for us to switch? Uh and so I I'll let you guys follow up on that, but that is really uh I think the biggest thing that we've tried to share with the board is that in many cases uh it is about the level of risk that you are willing to take on uh and that insurance carry may have a lot to say about whether or not they're going to cover it. And so I'll let you guys add to that. But >> let me maybe a clarification again, another clarification and
087then some general feedback on on the questions you posed. Chair Hagerty. Um even though we do have that student um accident coverage, if a student were injured, let's say in some kind of student club activity, it would likely not be covered under this policy. It would be covered under our general liability policy. And so when when we get an inquiry from a school or a board member, whomever is saying, you know, we'd like to consider adding a club for students to participate in a club, whatever the physical activity is. Um, let's assume it's a physical activity, something which could have physical liability or danger. Um, we run that through the insurance carrier to get their sense of it. In some cases, we get a green light. Yeah, that's covered. In other cases, kind of a
088yellow light. In some cases, a red light. And just because we get a red light from the carrier, doesn't mean we couldn't offer that activity. And I'll come back to that in a second. Um, an insurance carrier is going to look at it through a lens of balancing retaining their customers with managing their risk. And so they look at that beyond just Wake County Public Schools when they're looking at anything. So it's not like they're trying to single us out per se. I think it may be challenging or it may not one may not have full context when comparing ourselves to other districts across the state without peeling back some layers to ensure that maybe another district is allowing a certain activity. Maybe we're assuming they have coverage, maybe they don't. And so like a
089lot of things, one can do, one can perform an activity or participate in an activity without having insurance or really without any kind of risk management plan associated with it. But then just like the safety net, you may never need it as an individual and organization, but when and if you do, if it's not there, bigger problems happen. Yeah, but I I do think that's easy enough to track down. I mean, we know the districts. We've heard of the activities. We can inquire and find out if they have insurance. And that's not that difficult, right? I mean, there is the chance that they have activities going on. We've had activities in schools that we on the board did not know about. And I think maybe the district didn't know about until a teacher told us
090or a student told us that they were going on and so that's when the office gets involved and has to, you know, implement that. So, let's put that aside. Okay. And really what I'd like I guess is when we have this process and again it's the general liability versus the student accident coverage and it sounded from the description that this would fall under the student accident coverage but if it in fact should be under general liability I understand that as well when you go out and shop these and when you get bids for different rates while the board I think will always want you to be costconscious and fiscally responsible. I think one thing to look at would be options for the ability to expand coverage and what those choices could be because if there
091are other carriers that provide other options and if we were looking at it, let's say it's 9.5 million total. If general liability is about 10 12% of that, then what kind of increase in that general liability versus the student accident coverage we require? or could some of these be covered by a different student accident, you know, coverage policy? You know, is it worth an additional $25,000 a year, right, >> to increase the number, for example, of extracurricular activities? If what we've seen has been extracurricular activities help attendance, help retention, help, you know, provide opportunities for students in in school. So, so yeah, let's just if it's something that we can do, if it's something that we can look at, you know, it's so, you know, you all have been very good about providing us information
092when we brought different activities to you, but I think if you can hear us in terms of, you know, being able to describe what the cost of that could be, so when we make budget choices, we really know is this an affordable option or even if something is very popular with the parents in our district but it would be unaffordable that we can explain that and really knowing where those two things fall. the example about the carriers too. I'll bring up as you remember a couple years ago, we had a very popular field trip activity down on the coast, right? You remember this one? And we had we had been doing this as a district for decades. And then simply one year we were told, well, we can't do it anymore. Risk management says we
093can't do it. We were able to work and find a solution around that one. And so, you know, we know these things are possible, but from the board's perspective, we don't necessarily want to micromanage every particular activity or trip, but we do need some awareness of cost and what those choices are. And that would help us a lot. Absolutely understood. And one of the things in what you chair Hagerty have triggered, we could even look at issuing and we will discuss a request for information. business does not have to wait for the next cycle of putting things out to bid specifically for some type of policy related to student activities. Um I got my own thoughts about that, but we would see what what response we get. >> So, Mr. Chair, what we'll do and
094and I' I'd say uh if we could find some information about uh those possibilities in about 45 days, maybe 60 days, but we'll go back uh absolutely do that research, ask those questions. Uh and then we'll talk about what might be the time frame we can at least get some answers to uh the questions that I know he's talking about and then we can report that back to the board. >> I appreciate that. You know, as as we deal with questions of market share and we look at advantages that public schools have, one of the advantages that we've typically been able to offer have been activities, student activities, sports, athletics, extracurricular activities, academic field trips, things that aren't available to homeschool students and some private and charter schools. And so in a competitive environment, being
095able to maintain that advantage could be really important. And we've seen, I know, Miss Caulfield's district around some of these popular student activities, some families leave the district for charter and private options that have been able to offer some of these activities. So, I I appreciate it. One of the other things we'll do and to your point Cher Hagerty, we'll take some of the most recent activities that have been um >> suggested and we'll reach out to some of our sister districts across the state, find out, confirm that they're actually conducting it and find out how they are managing their risk associated with it. >> Thank you. I really appreciate that, Dr. Uh yeah, just to kind of tag along with that, um um you know, in my line of work, we always sign waiverss.
096Um and um is what is the what is the effect or the power of having a waiver signed by a student or parent um uh in in the in the area of risk management? I just wanted to kind of get an idea of that. Well, I I'll tell you my two cents, but I'm going to turn it over to the board's attorney to give you the legal sense. Um, I'll go back to my comment about we live in an everinccreasing latitude society and the board chair is also an attorney, but not the board's attorney. Um, a waiver by itself will not keep an organization out of litigation or if there's negligence out of a out of an obligation, a financial obligation. I'll just leave it at that. >> Would you like to comment? >> I'm
097happy to update or add in close session if that's okay. >> Sure. That's definitely a legal matter and we can discuss it there. But a very good question, Dr. Miss Caw, >> um, thank you for bringing this and kind of breaking it down. Um, I know that we've had conversations about this before. Before I actually ask, um, couple of little tidbits. Can you tell us what is tone at the top? >> Tone at the top as it comes to safety, for example. Well, at the top in general, um, I use my background of fiscal integrity and in my role because our district is operating using taxpayer funds, whether those taxpayer funds came to us via the state, via the federal government, um, via the local government. So, we're stewards of taxpayer money. And so as
098that we have a fiduciary responsibility to use those funds number one as they were legally as they're legally required to do. But with that fiduciary responsibility that transcends far beyond just what legally required of us but use them wisely to conduct our role in public education. And ensuring that takes place starts with part of the culture and a culture is driven by the tone set and it starts at the top of the organization but as I have said to many that have worked around me over the years not just the superintendent sets that tone that's one person out of 20,000 employees. So within our roles here as an organization and the board is a piece of this too. The tone at the top is set by a lot of different people and everyone speaking is
099the tone of the top for someone else. >> Okay. I kind of figured that but I just didn't like cuz it had quotes. Sorry. Okay. >> Um so I appreciate everything that Chair Hagerty said. We have gone over this um many times with the NIK program and the skateboarding clubs that have come before us. Um you had mentioned that um the student coverage um that it was actually split. There are two different types of coverages and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about it that it is accident insurance. So it's not liability insurance. And so depending on the viewpoint of the person who's talking about insurance, it's important to make that distinction. So, the accident insurance would provide some sort of relief for a parent whose student was injured and they had medical expenses because
100you may or may not know we do not have any medical coverage when a student has an accident. >> Okay? So, we're talking about this accident insurance that we have purchased for certain risky behavior that may be required by uh statute. We have to provide that for the catastrophic insurance for football and for athletics, middle school and high school. And so that does not benefit the district. It benefits the parent. >> Okay. Well, maybe that's helpful. >> Yeah. No. And I wanted to know with the Nikico program because they have come to us before and they do have their own insurance, but if it's been the liability of them being and gathering on our property. Um, but how does that affect our insurance if they have their own insurance for the program seeing as they
101will gather initially on our property and then go elsewhere and ride? I I'll speak in generalities. I rather not go in any specifics because it could vary. But in general, you may have well, you have multiple parties involved, potential multiple insurance carriers involved. And at the end of the day, if there's an accident or there's an issue requiring coverage or even let's say a lawsuit or something, you know, in the court system or in mediation to avoid the court system, everybody's going to be at the table and everybody's going to participate in getting to whatever that settlement or agreement looks like. and one party um it gets very gray and very unique to each and every situation as to who winds up being fiscally responsible. I'll leave it at that. >> Okay. And I appreciate
102the fact that you will come back um you know you said 45 to 60 days because I think it is important to keep um our kids engaged and it just they've come to us with specifics and safety concerns and I mean skateboarding and football both have both of their risks and you know we just as a society except football we like to watch it. to go and get very involved with it. But there are some students that don't fit into that category or don't want to be there. And skateboarding and bike riding just as two examples are perfect examples of what they will what will engage them there and they each have their risk and if you look at the skateboarding has a lot less risk in certain areas than football. So I think it's
103important for us to explore that and that's one thing I was going to ask is what would this cost in the bottom line if we had to get a coverage to for specific things like that for us to be able to say yes we we can't do it under our insurance but we will be able to do it this way. >> Thank you. Any other questions Mr. Neater and staff? >> All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> All right. We do have a little bit of time left. If anyone is so inclined, I'd entertain a motion to move into close session uh for the consideration of confidential personal information protected under GS143 through1811 and to consult with the um board education attorney and preserve the
104attorney client privileges provided under GS143 through811 and also confidential student information protected under GS15C42 and the Family Education uh rights and privacy Second. >> So move. >> Thank you. So we have a motion from Miss Gordon and a second from Miss Mafy. Make sure we reported that correctly. All in favor of moving into close session, please say I. I. >> Any opposed? All right. We'll give a minute for the room to clear. >> And then we will uh resume the close session. Thank you. I was going to say I.