CSD School Board - Budget Work Session - February 27th, 2025

001special meeting budget work session Thursday February 27 excuse bless you thank can you have a roll call Mrs banado here Mrs cron present Mr Gart here Mr godon present Mr Harline present Mrs Lynch present Dr Maguire here Mr Martin here Mr Sadowski here we have nine members thank you can we please all stand for the pledge of [Music] allegiance to the flag of the United United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all God Bless America as far as I we do not have any other announcements for tonight uh we have a budget presentation that is going to be presented by Mr Greenwood so the table is all yours so ready to go aren't you all righty thank you uh thank

002you all for coming uh we'll hope to be quick and uh get to get to experience some uh pool night as uh black and white is is uh underway way uh certainly as I had shared earlier one of my favorite traditions of the Centennial School District right sort of that competition is from falling from the Wayside uh but it is alive and well I have a brother-in-law who uh who's a William tennet graduate and him and his brother still argue to this day because the younger brother was a captain and the older brother was not a captain uh and it is amazing how they still are visceral about it I email them every every year when it goes on um so to get started we have we have a lot of information to do uh

003and we have a lot of discussion to begin right so a lot of this will be repetitive uh to discussions that we had last year uh and we'll need to we'll need to figure a way to to move ideas forward in a in a productive and meaningful manner um our slides on the Mission Vision and belief uh you know I think those are all critical to why we're here and why you guys do what you do which we're greatly appreciative of uh the focus on collaboration and discussion on really what the budget's about uh and how we uh how we spend money and where we spend money the timeline as we've shared we've sort of moved through these dat were into into February so the governor's uh Governor Shapiro presented his Budget on the 4th

004we'll talk about that a little bit uh the budget uh Department level budgeting is is getting underway we're not we're not as far along as I had hoped uh personally uh our move and switch from skywards SMS platform to the cumulative Pro uh platform has created some reporting challenges and we've had them in a number of areas uh that's one as well but we will uh we will work to catch up and move those uh forward as two um tonight the 27th our second budget work session um and the March 1st Homestead uh Farmstead application deadline so as a community announcement uh February only has 28 days that means the deadline is 2 days away uh for those of you who did not receive something from a Bucks County Intermediate Unit you're good that means

005you are uh you are uh registered if you did receive something the deadline to submit that is March 1st so it needs to be literally postmarked So Not Just Dropped In The Box on a Saturday it needs to you need to go in and get them to stamp it um or it can be emailed uh the email address is BOA buckscounty.org uh it can e be emailed to that um or postmarked as I said by the [Music] 1 um so to to get underway um I wanted to uh start with where we left off at our last uh work session uh and and before we get into that I wanted to give a shout out to uh to our students to our teachers and to the staff uh for all of their outstanding work certainly

006over the past several years uh Centennial has really risen uh comparatively to neighboring districts uh and and across the state um you know over the past several years we've had the for Good Fortune of Mr rutz presenting various combinations of growth and academic achievement all of those have been trending upward after a little bit of a slide uh so we seem to have turned the corner I don't want to jinx them uh but we do feel like we are making Headway we are have curriculum that is aligned we have teachers who are uh working hard we have coaches out there we have Specialists supporting those students who who may need a little bit more help all of those as Dr benon would refer to them as uh um guard rails goals and guard rails are

007in place and uh we are moving forward it was great to see Dr Bon and Mr Gabriel in Harrisburg testifying it's really a a uh a kudos to Centennial School District right as the as the SR funding sort of wound down there was a lot of talk about you know what did you do with the money and and where are the results uh and we were very proud I was very proud to see those two gentlemen in Harrisburg and explaining what we did with the money and the results that we got right which is fantastic there's always a debate you could have used the money for air conditioners you could used the money for a lot of different things um as Mr Gabriel has shared as we've talked about over the past three years uh

008with covid right we pulled all our chips into the middle and we went all in on our students and I think we're beginning to see it's just the beginning uh to see a turnaround and uh certainly a debt of gratitude uh for Dr uh to Dr Bon for his leadership through was was a crazy period of time in the pandemic and really raising Centennial up um so to jump into where we were um these are comments that we received uh from the board in terms of uh from the during the first work session excuse me uh focus on on continued Improvement and student achievement right that was named by several board members uh identifying cost reductions that we can agree on and move forward was a comment from another uh board member those are critical

009needs at this moment and and we sort of felt shorted I believe a little bit I feel like I felt shorted a little bit last year where we ended up um and uh to take advantage of Grants which are always always good we are always looking for those opportunities uh and work hard to get them uh they tend to be competitive the district has done very good job in areas of Safety and Security so there are folks out there who are behind us and you know good or bad uh those are the folks who are getting the money to catch them up to where we are uh so it is it is a little bit of a challenge and the word of caution uh from another board member that grants aren't a reoccurring funding source

010so you can't really Bank the long term on money that you can't expect to have coming in and that's really the challenge in school budgets right I mean I wish we could uh be like the federal government and issue a continuing resolution and move on uh but that's not how it works in the school right so we've got to identify resources uh we've got to ex identify where those dollars are coming from and then how we're going to be spending them this slide just gives us a snapshot of of our students right of our enrollment what do we look like and how has it changed over the past uh 7 years um you can see enrollment had taken a bit of a dip as forecasted it's beginning to tick upwards and we anticipate that uh

011Trend based on the uh enrollment study that was conducted last spring to continue uh well into well into the next five six years as uh they're have turnover within the uh within the district and new families coming in um over the P you can see also the the changes in our makeup right so we've had a 10% growth in economically disadvantaged families we've had a 5% growth in the number of special education uh students that we have 1 and a half% growth uh recently on El students um all of these come with varying mandates right they are requirements that the district must provide a level of service in support of these students and those are always things that we need to keep in mind they don't they aren't optional necessarily uh and and most important

012through all of that right as we talked about and as I mentioned in the beginning uh to sort of kick it off uh through all of these challenges uh CSD has continues to show academic growth across all student groups and I think that's one of the things that that uh I know personally was most proud of when uh Mr rutz was going through the details and and Boyer there are a lot of details uh but one that I liked the most was that it wasn't just for regular ed students it wasn't just for this group of students or that group of students right every way we could slice that pie we did so and we saw Improvement in those areas Improvement in growth maybe not achievement yet but you know no doubt with the com

013commitment and passion that Mr rut brings to the table we're going to see it right he's gonna or he's gonna push it over the line right so um I think those are important to to keep in mind uh when we look at La at uh the budget and as I shared at our meeting on the 11th right we uh we have a structurally deficient budget right um and and it we have a a short-term problem and we have a long-term problem right we've been challenged to focus on both right we always focused on the next year and that's understandable uh but as we sign up for labor contracts and labor agreements right they span uh four to five years at a clip we need to have that long-term view in mind right we need to

014understand the impact of the decisions as we go forward and it's my goal to try to present them to you so that you can understand them it's your job to say yes or no and and decide how to move forward uh but we are in a in a structurally deficient deficient mode right as our expenditures are exceeding our revenues um and we are really taking from uh the proverbial savings account uh to fix and to plug the gaps in our operational [Music] plan nice little interlude there um to to provide some backdrop as to the most recent occurrences as I mentioned on the February 4th the governor proposed a $ 51 billion budget uh that included additional Revenue it included some tax cuts it included some spending increases and some of those included education as

015well um the governor spoke of his Surplus in his general fund uh which as he speaks to is sort of his checking account just like is here at Centennial um and his rainy day Surplus right $7 billion in his rainy day fund which is in essence his savings account right which is similar to the operations that we're doing as a district too um the summary of of what was proposed was more than $500 million uh being sent to the state's poorest school districts through adequacy and Equity uh complements to the general uh basic Ed funding um and this you know is estimated to impact 348 of the 500 schools uh unfortunately Centennial is not one of them so we're not captured in in that uh with regard to basic Ed funding bef is excuse me

016Mrs Lynch she's gorgeous sorry I'm sorry it was Court mandated yes yep it was Court mandated sorry sorry for interrupting you no no not at all thank you um on the basic Ed side right there was an addition of $75 million which is .9% increase in basic Ed funding uh $40 million or 2.7% increase in special education funding um $236 million will be set aside for Grants uh towards facility improve movement student mental health Safety and Security all those that we've sort of been in in the process of getting we've had luck we've you know had a couple $300,000 grants come through uh and we've been able to utilize them very effectively um at the bottom it talks about a proposed tuition uh cap for Cyber Charter Schools uh this is something that was in

017uh last year's proposal as well and and never makes it past the proverbial cutting floor um for Centennial that would amount to almost $500,000 so we'd get more money out of an action such as capping Charter School rates Cyber Charter School rates um as we would any of the money that the the state is actually offering to to uh put forward there um Mr Greenwood yes just for clarity um so we will not be eligible for the the first bullet point correct but we would be eligible for the other three no the other two it clear for everybody watching it's it's basic Ed funding which we we get the that creates caps in the basic Ed funding so the basic Ed funding can't really go backwards in time for a while it was a little

018up and down but this is is sort of committed dollars for today and tomorrow um as as well as special education funding right it's similar to that as well and I can we show you exactly you know at least what we anticipate that to be so how that impacts us uh for basic Ed funding the district would receive another $116,000 um which is point a 75% increase uh to our current allocation for special education we'd receive another $96,000 or a 2.62% increase uh to what we'd already be receiving right to that 3.7 million on the Ready To Learn grant uh we will receive no additional funding ready to learn grants have been fixed at $380,000 for certainly the five years I've had the great opportunity stand in front of you and share these numbers uh

019so the total estimated increase uh from the state is 213,000 so out of the governor's broad range short of uh act action relative to Cyber Charter uh the state will be putting in another $213,000 of funding ask what's the difference between the just a roundabout um for one of our students and a Cyber Charter student like is there a general difference um the Cyber chart the the the complaint or or the governor's position right is that Cyber Charter Schools operate across the district right so that their fee should be the same across the state right but that's not how it works right cyber cyber and all charters schools right receive an allocation based on what each district spends on their education so each fall we put together uh what is referred to as a 363

020which outlines and breaks down the cost that we we charge the our students cost and relatively the same cost that the Cyber Charter and regular Charter brick and motar Charters get as well it it subtracts things like transportation and and uh part of the building operations right but more or less that's sort of what it's targeting to do so if you compare a cyber what a Cyber Charter gets for a student in Middle Pennsylvania right to what they get in Bucks County right the numbers are way different right we are getting Cyber Charter students are getting $18,000 for every regular uh regular ed student are getting upwards of $37,000 for every special ed student in coming out of here right that's different in other areas and I think that's the governor's complaint is that you're

021operating sort of universally right with a fixed set of cost and a managed operation right you wouldn't necessarily create a Cyber Charter School in Bucks County or even in south eastern Pennsylvania because this is the highest wage rate uh in in the state right we pay more for teachers in this location right Southeast Pennsylvania not just Bucks County but mcgomery County right we we are that's where the the we're most competitive and that's his argument that a Cyber Charter School that operates in the middle of the state doesn't have that same level of expense and so and it should be then universally it should be the same it shouldn't matter if that student comes uh from uh Warminster or if it comes from uh uh you know Monroe County uh out in the middle of

022the state so that's his goal that's his argument has been his argument uh but the charter Charter plans are tough right they are they they they beat back uh a lot of um a lot of proposals that come forward two years ago there was a proposal that they' be audited that was taken off the books right so that audit mandate while some Charters do and they they had go through the audit process it's not as mandated is for for us thank you y Mr Greenwood how does CV figure into that cvla operates as a part of our school right so those students who are participating in in our Centennial virtual Learning Academy are our students uh just in a in a different form right so we don't get any of that cyber benefit from no

023no no no they they are they are they're not and they're not Outsiders right we don't we we don't have residents right those are people who are participating in the cbla program are are district residents uh they're just opting for a different mode uh of of Education we can work but can't yeah but keeping in mind that if we didn't have that they would be going out and then there would be an outflow of Revenue because of that it's always a great thing to keep in uh keep in mind and we've shared those numbers uh with Kristen's work in CV right we we've our our our Charter rates uh continue to decline right it's uh it's taken a drop every year I think the past three so which which is a is a good thing

024and it's good to have the students being ma able to benefit from all the things that are Centennial whether that's a sports program whether that's after school activities whether that's just being here so that's good yeah know CBL is great I was just hoping we could take advantage of that cyber yeah no we can't uh we they classifi differently or something I don't think we're allowed to yeah reg cyber just another point to point out here the 213,000 maybe 1% increase from the state but when we look at our budget it's even less than 1% you know return sure sure you know it's it's 1% out of the out of those groups right out of the three lines there it's 1% of that also keeping in mind that that has to get passed there's no

025guarantee that that number is going to be and I think right I think that's the key to the the first bullet point when I reviewed these slides I probably had them in in in the wrong order right but it it's really important to understand that we're at the very beginning of the budget process right uh and that there is a long way to go and we're unlikely uh to end up with these being the final numbers right but we will we will plug them in we will play along we will try to keep our ear uh towards Harrisburg and and see what we learn uh but it is it is unlikely um and we'll have to see how that ultimately plays out hopefully it'll it'll move for the [Music] positive well I got it I

026don't have anything that's clicking forward I do now thank you um mbit uh we had the great opportunity mbit has really done a great job uh this year of reaching out to the districts and in engaging us in their process uh we've had three meetings uh so far this year October one in October one in January and February October was just sort of a refresh uh January's meeting came back with some uh with some more numbers uh we met earlier this week on Monday morning uh and their their business administrator and uh Dr gavell uh went through his budget uh and what they're looking at this just sort of provides a summary of that uh they're projecting between a 6.15 uh and a 7.13% increase in expenses uh the real differentiator there is the hiring

027of a new another not a new but another elect Electrical uh teacher um CSD is comparable you know all-in expense increases 3.6% uh their labor and benefits increasing uh based on that teacher role between 6.6 and 7 you know 7.99 8% uh on the labor benefit side the tuition for members uh will increase between you know 5% and 6% uh based on those numbers as they're laid out there uh mbit is working to finalize their collective bargaining agreement um if you don't know their agreement is a little bit different because it's really focused on the benefit uh teachers at mbit receive an average uh uh cost average pay from the group of sending schools so that's New Hope sberry Council Rock Central Bucks and Centennial right so they look at the teachers the amount teachers

028are paid in those four districts and they they merge that together to be what is paid to their teachers Mr yes um just a point of information so people know about um the projected increase of 6.15 to 7.13 depending on the the electrical teacher um that is expanding the program just so people know there has been an overwhelming demand for increasing the size of the electrical program to the point where they they can't even come close to filling it even if uh nbit was to add this second new teacher this new teacher and expand the program they still wouldn't be able to meet the overwhelming demand sure for that of course so just people know that's why we're looking at bigger numbers cuz the demand is is off the charge for this yeah no that's

029that's that's a that's a great Point Mr ghard thank you very much for sharing that right and I know as as we look at in our own school right those are all challenges that we they uh have right we don't have the opportunity here we have we have courses similarly right that that would sell out but we we can't add the teacher necessarily to do that right we can't maintain our class size is and be able to offer everything to everybody um and and you know students at Centennial make choices to to take a different elective uh so those are all pieces of it it's a little bit different certainly uh at mbit and and certainly the great work that they're doing uh at a call with Dr goell and uh and their ba this

030afternoon they're very insightful in Sharing uh those particulars uh with regard to the classes and how they're operating um and I was very appreciative to them and invited Dr Cell to come to our next uh finance committee meeting to be able to share his insights in person so I thought that would be a good thing to uh to have us do as well it's it's also important to note in this whole process if an electrical teacher is added the impact of adding one teacher at mbit is much greater than it is to add one teacher in this s school district doubt no doubt right um but again I and I I don't I don't mean any ill will to mbit I I again I appreciated all of their work with us and I'm just sort

031of sharing those facts right yeah we just have to be able to afford it yes okay can can you attack a dollar value to the 5 to 6% tuition increase um it's it's probably in the 100,000 $200,000 difference okay so we'd be as it relates to just us so it would be 100 to to $200,000 increase in our end of the budget correct okay Miss Lynch I have a question yes Mrs Lynch yes I support nbit and always have but you are telling me tonight that by adding one teacher they're going to have an increase of 6% or more in their budget really I think they could have an increase of 6% without the teacher right in their expenses that's there's other pieces and there's other components to their budget right just like ours just

032like ours right yeah okay so it's not because of one electrical teacher it's Etc ET ET that one teacher is worth a percent if you will right if we look at the numbers 615 to 713 right that's roughly a percent so a teacher uh and benefits um peers and all that right all that overhead to it gets applied right so that would be what that teacher is worth their budget without the teacher is is is a growth of uh 6% 6.15% uh to okay so I thank you for your clarification but the way it's coming across is they they're hiring electrical teacher and that's not the case they're hiring one but there's additional items in there that make an increase uh yeah it's both right it's both it's it's the hiring of a teacher as

033well as expenses that you know are inflation wise and and part of their programming that needs to happen similar to very similar to what we do here just at a as as Mr ginard pointed out right at a smaller Focus or Mr goon I forget which one right so the percentages are different uh when you're looking at a at a smaller organization yeah I mean if you think about it they may have 50 instructors at mbit where we have 200 at the high school correct yep teaching half day programs right so they they run two they have a morning program and they have an afternoon program so you know it it's it's half so the teachers are teaching sort of one group in the morning and they teach a different group uh it makes up

034their their uh their fold there Mr Green with all due respect I'm aware of that what has projected across the video or the meeting is that you're having an increase because of one teacher that's not the case no no again and my apologies if that's what's coming across that that the projection in the their increase that the third bullet point shows 6.15 is without the electric teacher right 7.13 increase in expenses is with the new teacher so I tried to break the that that big number out right because that was that was meaningful to them uh and as Mr ghard said is is is something they'd really like to be able to see in order for them to be able to meet the demand that they see any other questions on their proposal again I

035think this is you know in in their game and their they're working through we will meet with them in the finance committee uh if anyone wants to join that um and I think their goal is to be able to take this to their board uh in March that takes us to our yes Mrs Lynch why can't they come to a board meeting like they used to in the past oh he would be he would more than be willing to come to a board meeting if you'd like to have him at the board meeting he can certainly come and share that as well well I for one would like that I don't know about the rest of board members we will I will reach out we will um tally the the group here and see how

036that plays out right he offered to come tonight I just didn't want tonight we have a lot to go through I didn't want it to be an nbit focused discussion and that's what I shared with him uh this afternoon but invited him to the finance committee and certainly would invite him uh here as well okay thank you yep uh so that brings us to our most recent per uh projections uh unfortunately uh through our our fine-tuning uh the deficit unfortunately increased by $463,000 it went the wrong way uh wasn't necessarily what I was looking for um one of the one of the key drivers in in sort of that $400,000 move was was in uh the most update Ed the most updated uh assessed value my first uh report had the uh fall assessment has

037the January 2nd assessment and in that our total assess value decreased by a million dollar um so that million dollars uh led to is worth you know close to $200,000 in Revenue um and we've seen some of that coming uh I we have some opportunity as we talked about uh on Tuesday where we have some winds that we may be able to to move that the other direction uh but that's where we're at um the there was a change in the property the high the highlighted indicates the changes uh tax collection rate those assumptions are all staying the same we did move I did increase the property tax reduction that's that Homestead Farmstead uh from 2.5 million to 2.9 Million uh and and that ultim has no effect to the p&l um that where that

038money comes is instead of coming from the local it's it's reduced from our real estate taxes and paid for by the state through their gaming collection so that's the the dance so that number just moves from local to to the state level um as we've shared before uh this is assuming the full act one of 4% as does the forecast for the remaining four years right so we're remaining uh the uh ifos forecast through 2029 and then I just kept the 3.2 in uh as a as a placeholder uh for okay any questions this does include the the state funding changes that were uh made um they had a little bit of a a reduction in our in our Revenue I wasn't expecting a whole lot uh so it was conservative and uh uh that's

039where we ended up yes on our on the expenditure side yes um of the other mhm how much of that are onetime expenditures um we will get we will get into that so if if you don't mind we hold that and we're going to dive deep because I know Mr ghard uh expressed a desire to see what's inside the the other category and and we tried to pull pull some of that out and then in addition to that I know later on we have made made note of the um increase in retirement payout Etc how many um retirements do we have on average in a given Year and have you cooked them into the uh payroll I have not cooked them in so to speak so to speak uh but I know you know I'm

040uh our deadline uh as a district before our uh our bonus uh if you will that was approved on uh Tuesday so that there teachers out there who are contemplating retirement right the board was uh increased the payout to six uh for six days from $7,500 to $115,000 and increased the perday payout uh from $40 to I believe it was $55 um so those two things uh are are on the table that just came out Tuesday I was talking with Mr Wilson uh earlier today about ways to making sure that all teachers get that information I know it's fun to tune in I'm sure they're all out there watching now uh but for those who aren't I want to make sure that they uh they understand that opportunity exists um so that that number isn't

041in there um it varies uh from year to year uh on the retirements right um I know when we did this last I think it was 21 it sparked uh a couple of uh retirees but I think people were also retiring uh just coming out of covid right they were the covid stress and the anxiety and everything that was going on they they they said I've been here for 35 years I've been teaching wonderfully I'm going to I'm going to step aside and I think they would have stepped aside one way or the other just because any other questions with regard to this slide [Music] back to the interlude I like that I could time that as I flip the slides that would be perfect uh this slide shows uh our budget Revenue projections that

042are included uh in that above forecast and the fact that it's primarily driven from Real Estate right this isn't new news to anybody right real estate taxes have funded public education uh forever right as as Dr Ben shared uh several years back right it's not a new thing right so when I had kids in school my real estate taxes paid for uh my kids to go as did they my neighbors real estate taxes when he was retired right my kids have since moved out of the house I'm now paying for my neighbors kids to go to public school and uh and that's how it works um I don't think it could be any clearer than that and you know you'd have to go back pretty far to find a neighbor or find a retiree or

043find someone who didn't pay for someone else students um but that is is certainly The Lion Share right represents 83% of our of our revenue is coming from uh those uh those real estate taxes uh you can see the breakdown in other taxes uh whether they're local uh the balance of the local whether it's state funding the basic Ed special ed uh funding we talked about those were the two numbers we mentioned earlier there's transportation funding there's the property tax reduction which is that Homestead that's the number that went from $2.5 to $2.9 million as I shared there uh that reduces our real estate tax burden on our community and it shifts it to the state um and then there's a FICA and paser contributions from the state federal funding is is minimal uh without

044Esser so it was minimal early in the in the you know 2010 12 15 16 uh with the Esser funding it became more meaningful uh but that has since gone away so it is back to its you know it's million dollar $2 million uh in contributions and others we've talked about was a Debt Service transfer sort of from that same savings account to create a reduced impact of our debt service which we've spoken about a number of times half of it's coming from The Debt Service fund uh the other half of it is because of the uh reductions that we uh achieved when refinancing um last fall on the expense side uh this is sort of the the breakdown of all the expenses Mr ghard so you'll see each of those buckets uh the salaries

045and benefits uh section combined equals um most of most of that uh most of that but most of that pie excuse me um and uh and is is is making up that excuse that piece of the pie uh which we've talked about before and that's you know nearly 70% of our total budget uh the rest is made up in other categories and we're going to break those other categories down purchase Services which includes special education services from the IU special education placements Charter School tuitions includes uh middle Buck Institute technology I called it a Tosh and they call it sort of a share so I don't need to mix some semantics but that's how I refer to it uh technology service it includes our utility bills all are captured in that purchase Services which is

046you know $30 million and represents 19% of our overall expenses uh next to that is supplies uh the next largest uh in at $4.7 million uh supplies includes District and classroom expenses software licenses books also includes fuel uh for the transportation center both gas diesel and propane property expenses are equipment based purchased technology uh and software expenses other objects up at the top uh include our interest on our bonds as well as our principle on our bond payments um so we look at those two uh as we look at that chart um you know 77% is made up of salaries benefits and our debt service that doesn't leave a lot you know right uh to to be uh to be cut up from there and as we mention them and as we look at each

047of these lines right it would be great to be able to say you know 1% cut across the board uh but as we look at what's inside of those it's not necessarily an option right I I need to have uh District needs to have insance insurance right the district is going to pay for special education costs it's going to pay the charter school bill because that's what we have to do um so those aren't you know we will put our estimates forward but we can't necessarily the expenses aren't all controllable the controllable piece is it becomes ultimately a much smaller uh piece of the [Music] puzzle I appreciate you appreciate you're breaking that down like that sure it makes it a lot easier and I just for clarity just just want to um and if

048I'm wrong just let me know but um it's easy to look at at the Topline salaries benefits and debt servic so you know there's that that big piece but when you get down the line really purchase Services there are things that we have to do we have no control over they fall into that same category they do um other objects interest on bonds principal payments things we have to do so really it's all of these things sure fall into that category of they're pretty much the same category where we have to do it we really can't move expenses on those things at all so just so people know that don't just look at the top when it's bold it's add all those percentages and that's unchangeable that's great Insight Mr Gard that really is and

049and that's that's that's the challenge right as to and why we're really here right because we we need to we need to find sort of structural changes uh to what we're doing in order to have a plan that we can carry forward right last uh last year and we'll get to it so I mean to jump the table we made some one-time expense changes right we we said we'll postpone refreshing the computers but you can't postpone refreshing the computers forever right as the board member said it's like a grant right it's not it's not reoccurring savings right that's one-time savings uh so we made a lot of those decisions but we didn't make anything that was last right nothing that we could carry forward through the years um and those are important pieces right it's

050important to recognize that why would but is a large budget right we're in control of probably a very small piece of that budget right when it comes right down to it you certainly in control of uh a portion of the salaries and benefits right we re revamped our benefits plan hopefully that we see some uh we see a smaller growth right a smaller trajectory uh in in benefit expenses uh by doing that um you you got some work you can do in that area right purchase Services as Mr ghard pointed out the IU charges right we need the students that we're sending there we need to be able to provide them that level of Education out placements we need to be able to do that Charter Schools uh we need to be able to do

051that we need to pay the utility bills just like everyone else does right outside Transportation those are services that as as Dr bendett shared right Transportation isn't mandatory right we're not required to do that I wouldn't want to sit in your seat and tell everybody we getting rid of Transportation uh but that's that it is it it be become you know by default almost a required uh expense as Mr ghard pointed out when we do try to to segment these costs and and and dive sort of a level down uh within salaries right you can see the allocation of that uh $68 million uh 50 million is a part of the teacher uh contract of the professional uh staff um the next 20% is covered by our support staff which is 13.6 million and 4.7

052million in act 93 salaries make up that group um just the note and I apologize if it's repetitive it's a gene my dad gave me when I was a kid I couldn't stand it but now I've gotten older and I can repeat the same things to my kid over and over again I think the key to to the contracts and the agreements isn't what's in them but really our commitment to fund them so we made uh our agreement with the teachers last year we need to make sure that we can live up and fund that agreement that's going to require uh you know it could require tax increases it could require the cap at 4% uh but that's where we're at that's a decision that was made um we have the act one act 93

053agreement expires this June uh so that is uh currently I believe being negotiated or planned to be negotiated or discussed uh and the support staff agreement uh follow suit uh the very next year right so again uh we tried to emphasize that last year looking forward looking at the entire contract uh and what it means for the 4-year period we need to try to make sure that we're doing that as we enter these other areas uh but as you can see there there's smaller pieces of that that uh that pie uh to dig in a little deeper uh just to satisfy your thirst Mr ghard I've taken the the next largest piece of that pie which is those purchase services and broken it out right and you can see across the board uh the largest

054uh area of those are professional service right so that is services to the IU that are those are out Ser Outsource placements uh uh and the like um that are supporting our students uh substitute teachers uh substitute Serv represent uh $1.8 million in our budget 6% uh you can see utilities repairs and Maintenance Cleaning uh Transportation Charter tuition uh $1.7 million in Charter tuition outplacement District out placements and uh alternative placement schools uh are in 5.5 million uh mbit is 31 in this budget almost 3.2 million um I think it'll be a little shy of that uh so I think we'll have some savings as as that moves forward um I put this together before I had the meeting on Monday so uh hopefully we'll we'll see some change there and then sort of other

055services uh but that tries to break down um what all included in that in that one category that's a lot of slices you putting that by so thank you for doing that IE broken up high all right and as you said right so insurance is $600,000 right we're not we're not conducting school without insurance so those things are are sort of requ required special education requirements are are there right mandates on education are are all in there so those are things that we need to we need to recognize we need to understand and uh we need to figure a way forward this is a chart I've showed this last year and I I've showed it again and it really to me it it demonstrates and hopefully I can articulate it correctly um the real challenge

056right so as something like special education right special education costs have Ren have risen 7 79.5% right1 million over between the period of 2010 and 20123 right they will have increased you know by another $5 million in this current year we're in today um and the amount of money that you get from the State and from the federal government right really hasn't changed at all over that period of time right it got it was less for a period of time so the red line is the line I drew right so it sort of to starts at 2010 there's a little square here right if you can see it right it's just on the outside you need to put your readers on I have them if you need them uh but that's that's the gain right

057so it has increased 68 $669,000 right in federal fund state state and federal funding for special education students right it's a mandate that we educate it's a mandate that we deliver uh uh good services and and we are certainly about doing that I'm not certainly not saying we do anything but that but those costs are real right and if they're not picked up at the state level or the federal government level there's only one Le last level right we only have we have local taxes we have state taxes we have federal taxes state and federal they pitched in $69,000 to an $1 million bill right that $1 million is left on the doorstep of the community and it is it is somewhat in my mind that black and white right and that's why uh the

058numbers that we see up there you I mean your beautiful line straight down that is the dollar amount that was from 2000 2010 and all the way to now not including any inflation that has taken place since not including any no no no this is these are just raw costs right so the the these costs that you see each year are certainly inflated right so their growth is a product of one inflation and and and a product of need right so there there are two pieces to why those Orange Lines continue to grow that red line is is the cost in 2010 because I was trying to do this looking up and down see if I could iron it up I got the ruler out I said wow I think that Line's the same I

059put the line in I said you know what I see some gray on the small side of that right that uh that $69,000 of added federal and state revenue I could take a picture of right I can see it now so that's why the line is there um to make that differen but yes it is it's inflation uh which drives the costs out right it's need which drives the cost out um it's the cost of special education services right those costs have been escalating uh as we talked about last year at at a at a very uh very big clip so all of those things come into it but this is the reality right so this is what the state and the federal government have pitched in idea funding is included in that right that's

060been flat year-over year uh and you can see the SEF right the special education funding was up by 96,00 this year right that's that's what we're talking about the rest needs to find a home it needs to be picked up and that's I think one of the great challenges right we can look at this under a very a number of different scenarios pension costs right what has happened to pension cost State puts in this for pension but pension costs are out of control right they've they've risen dramatically they've just only recently begun to tail off uh you know in the in the early you know the the 10 the early teens 2010 20 15 the numbers were jumping up but you know multiple percentages every single year um and and it was it's crazy right

061we pay we're going to be paying 34% on every employee uh for the pension plan so those are those are real costs um but this is this is to me a snapshot special education costs and again I think you could see this in any case right we could we could put regular education here may not be as dramatic right our regular Education costs continue to grow as Mr gocken said you know inflationary costs and that's not changing dramatically either the past couple of years right the prior two State budgets uh Wolf's last budget and uh Governor Shapiro's uh last two they they did move a lot of money in towards um in towards the uh basic Ed funding right they pushed money into that pot that was allocated out we did see some jumps that

062were were meaningful right million dollar changes uh didn't cure the world it's now slowed down uh as as they look at redirecting some of those sources of funding and I don't know if maybe you know reading too much into this correct me if I'm wrong but I think just as a as a good example of what we're facing since special ed is the slide we're on now the time frames are different but under enrollment a 5% increase increase in special ed population but we're looking at a 79. half% increase in costs sure so that's that's just a a dramatic y um you know um example of how even a little bit of an increase in the population drives a big increase in cost and it's just the way no the timeline would be a little

063right probably be more reasonable like half of that chart but uh you're right right and and that goes to to the costs of special education Mr gicon was an IU uh staffer for a long time right so he's very familiar with the intricacies of the IU and and their cost structure uh which is which is uh you know it's just a piece of our special education p uh right we have placements we have many other services that we provide I mean in many instances it's just a pass through their exp we we are paying our own increas in expenses and we are paying their increas in expenses as a percentage of whatever you know Services they're providing because they're not a taxing entity same thing with mbit you know as their their increases or their

064expenses increase they are passed along to the sending District so we are paying for their increases and our increases to a certain extent to a certain extent to a certain extent certainly onba yeah not call out special particularly just saying it's a good example of how right in any category a small increase of of percentage of attendance in that crory and then you get into increase exponentially and you get into situations in which you know certain students need particular needs and you're limited to where you know they can go to get those Services because they're hard to place shared m Bolton shared uh last year numerous times right the actual costs for those services are increasing right we're sending we're sending more students which is bumped us up a little but the the services that

065we're spending right or or utilizing are just costing much more than they had in the past but it's important to keep in mind that when you look at the nbit component you know we the the program does not charge more for the special Edge students than they do for the regular Edge students but the cost there is the same correct yeah correct I believe they charge us independently uh for some of the AIDS and support that they have there but again I think that share that cost gets allocated across the sending schools okay that brings us back to to this slide I mean to resurrect it again but just as a as a point of where we're at uh there's a lot still going on uh as I said with the state budget there's a

066lot going on there there's a lot going on with our own uh as we work through these this slide just is a refresher um was a little bit of a PTSD for me I apologize right when I saw it I was a flashback to work sessions three four and five um and and where we ended up right so uh as you can see from the list of reductions as I shared earlier right uh we did eliminate new positions that we had HED to bring on board um but short of that all these things were sort of onetime changes right whether it it's the delay in technology or uh the pause and curriculum writing uh some minor other expense reductions the debt refinance that's that's real that we we will see savings every year because of

067that we will save upwards of two $2 million I think the number was um uh so you know those are those are true savings the rest of the list is is sort of one-time things right we can't go on forever with a refresh right I think we're making it by some folks will say hey we're having a lot of more technical issues less technical issues um you know I'll take that for what it's worth and and for those who are sharing that information so this one-year refresh has created some challenges is uh but again it's not an ongoing we can't do this again uh this year um uh and the accelerated draw down we talked about that and we were able to do that we shared that as a one-time option as well uh and

068what really May saved the day if you will was really the redirection of uh $2.9 million to plug the Gap right district has to have a Balan budget it's a requirement from the state um and and that's how we we got at it uh I think as we look I look at the towards the right of the slide major savings opportunities just to repeat because my dad would love it up in heaven he's looking down saying look at that Tom you can repeat just as well as I can um majority of the savings were one time the impact of not going to the act one last year and its impact this year is almost $2 million right so our deficit would be half what it would be if we had gone to the full act

069one last year uh and it's not not talking about the impact last year just the impact it would have this year right that going to that that one more per is N9 uh $900,000 if you will right that rolls over to this year that number is now uh almost uh $1.8 million right so that's the impact of the decisions that you make um and at the top right you know in August of this year right we did uh we did reduce our org ganization side right we reduced the size of the act one uh act 93 team uh with the departure of uh Dr best and uh and them grateful uh truly and I'm sure you guys all are as well uh for for Dr Wilson's stepping up and and filling a huge role uh

070as well as um Mr Gabriel right those two gentlemen uh broke up uh one person job and shouldered that burden uh for the district right that's where this Savings of $178,000 come from that's a 4% reduction in the ACT 93 compensation uh and is in in no way a small task right I know Mr Wilson who was overseeing HR and all the headaches that come with that I think it was a a pine in the face if you will right when he moved over now he has not only all those personnal issues right but he has the schools to deal with on a regular day in day out basis so it's it's a student doing this a teacher doing that they're all now showing up on his doorstep uh along with my HR worries that

071I have uh showing up on his step too so I really thank uh Dr Wilson and Mr Gabriel as I said for for making this happen right they took eight person's job and their job increased significantly more than the differential that they were pay paid so I'm grateful to those of you who uh voted in in confirmation on Tuesday uh because it is really a recognition of what those two gentlemen took on um so this is a list that we looked at um last year so some of these things will be uh familiar um to you uh and and similar adjustments right so uh we start at the top looking at at capping uh the overall budget by 1% and while we would like to believe that that's an easy thing to do right I

072remember having conversations with a board member yeah it's just 1% you can take it right across the top right every Department that does that but we don't control all of those as Mr ghard pointed out right so 1% isn't 1% to the finance the business office isn't given 1% right the give finance office the business office has to give more right inside a teaching own has to be able to give more more we have to be able to find those opportunities operations within the operations team within the transportation team where we can squeeze because 1% doesn't count in all of those areas that Mr ghard pointed out that we don't have control of I don't have control of the IU right I don't have control of the price of gas I don't have the control

073of uh what our insurance broker will cost right we were certainly negotiating with them we were certainly working the cost down but insurance is going to be is going to have a good jump right natural disasters are are well too known now right and I I feel we all should get a week in sunny California after paying for the that recovery right that's that that is going to increase insurance companies increase Countrywide right they don't say okay just CU you live in California they pay more than I do in in uh in Montgomery County and Home in Upper Dublin right that's they pay what I pay there much different than my seaside resort on the Pacific yes but the cost is my insurance is going to be impacted nonetheless by that those fires right by

074the devastation in the Carolinas right those were tragic uh and those will result in that that fee being charged in incremented to all of you homeowners as well as to uh to uh to the to the district um so that is that is an an option up there and things that we are going to be looking at right we're looking at at reducing it by more than uh 1% right we're looking at reducing those budgets in order to try to get close to a overall 1% but again that's a it's a big that's a big push uh the increase in the retirement incentive right we're hopeful uh that we'll be able to do that and we'll this is a number that we put in uh in anticipation of some retirements again we'll see where that

075uh that falls out in the in the coming uh you know coming day in the coming weeks uh as we uh as we talk about that class size Elementary class size so this was a Hot Topic and I'm sure it will be another Hot Topic and as Dr best shared in and attempted to articulate right the option in the class size plan right the class sizes are set um as As you move forward so kindergarten and first grade classes are capped at 25 students each uh second and third are 27 students each uh and fourth grade and fifth grade or 29 students each per the policy uh that we live under right what the opportunity to increase by one right what that allows you to do is be more flexible right so we can't our

076class sizes are are are much less than that right so there two three students less sometimes four students less than any one of those the average kindergarten class is not 25 today it's like 20 today 21 students today it varies from school to school but in general right that's where you're at if you're able to increase that class size it creates more room to get actually closer to that cap right to get to the original cap so you can say we're going to increase it by one we may get to 25 at that point and by no means am I saying that that's easy done that's not a burden on the teachers but that that's that's the discussion going on right we're not going to all of a sudden be at 26 kids in the

077elementary go from 25 to 26 because the truth is we're less than the 25 today we'll be closer to 25 if not at 25 uh but that's where we're at and that's what we tried to look at here right I could there's a number of class opportunities but we looked at at three that said you know if we made this change I don't see any single class they don't see the average exceeding what those current class limits are right but it does allow us to uh to reduce uh Staffing while maintaining sort of that that same area opportunity is similar with two right if you increase the class size by two again it's doing that same thing and again it's that understanding as Dr best tried to share that it allows us to get closer

078to the to the one line right without going over right it's not quite the tush push right we're not pushing the the the line all the way forward right but it allows us to get closer so we'd be like the Buffalo Bills right we wouldn't actually get the first down we' get just short of the first down um uh evaluating the high school schedule that came up as well right the number of a million dollars really is in search of uh some more evaluation uh but is is sort of finding its basis in an uninflated way uh by the number of teachers we added when we moved from a standard schedule which most schools have to our current uh block schedule um at the high school so that's an option uh and I think we

079need to be able to discuss that in some meaningful way um uh The middleb Institute of Technology we talked last year about having a cap right similar to we similar to the Caps that we have uh for our classrooms right so there's only so many uh Spanish seats there's only so many AP class seats that we have if we don't our students choose a different elective um it's not black and white necessarily like that but it is similar right it is I think similar in terms of if if if a thousand kids wanted to go to nbit what would we do right would we build a new mbit or would we say you know what a th kids can't go to mbit we can only send 250 students to the mbit um just as we

080do in in in the classrooms at the high school today so we have a lot of choice at the high school we're trying to manage that choice um but that's that that does happen every year right there's kids who don't get their first choice uh of what they're doing in in in the regular building uh and could that be could that also play out in in students that we send to mbit um so those are uh a list of um you know five uh five categories of costs um that that I I share with you again right I think these are areas that create meaningful change right they will certainly be painful change doesn't go without that uh but as you've seen and and I hope we've relayed that it it was going to require

081meaningful change right it's not a matter of do we send uh do we send St staff for professional development outside of the county right or do we pay for de every dollar is an important dollar don't get me wrong but we are in need of of transformational change here right we are in a deficit budget right we have a problem and it's a long-term problem it's a problem that's existed quite honestly every year right every year we show The Five-Year Plan because I think that's important to see the end there hasn't been a budget yet that had a positive ending to that story right I think the story has gotten a little tighter and it's become a little more challenging particularly as the Act One increase drops right and I think that's an important aspect

082when we look at this right it will continue to drop right so it's 4% this year it was 5.3 last year it's going to go to 37 34 is the projection uh and then 3.2 uh in the next three years from the Independent fiscal office that's their projection the 3.2 was thrown in that number for 27 and 28 did bump up the last year projection was 3.6 and 3.3 it moved up a tenth of a point uh which is an earth shattering uh but it's worth a couple hundred, okay so uh it is with that that that I uh I pause and and offer uh offer the Flor to the board in terms of things that uh that we've identified ideas perhaps that we have missed um we do have a another opportunity on a

083refinancing that'll be the next year uh that'll be coming up um it's a little bit far away right now it's not uh the change isn't as significant it won't yield uh the amount of money our last refinance did and after that we're we're cold for a couple of years so we'll have another shot at that um and and we'll see we'll see where the the markets take us on that but that won't have any impact on this coming budget though I don't think I think it's too far away right I think it's too far away and I think it's it's minimal right relatively right so the last one we did was significant we saved $250,000 a year on our debt service payment uh in its total so you're correct you know I don't think it'll

084make this I'll continue to follow up uh we're at the pasbo conference in in a week and a half uh I'll be tracking down my friends at pfm and and uh looking to get some indication of where that number is and uh we'll share that once we have it i' just like to offer one comment on the savings opportunity slide um I just think it's important for everyone to understand um because of how sensitive the class siiz topic is and to a lesser degree the high school class schedule but that's still there too um where we are at this stage in the budget process you're doing your job by doing what we've asked to say bring us everything that's possible it doesn't mean this is absolutely going to happen you're just doing your job and

085saying you ask for every possibility these are some of the possibilities I you know I just don't want people to look at that and think oh here we go again they're going to start doing class size again it's it's part of the package we asked you to give us you're doing your job and giving it to us we'll see where it goes I I appreciate that uh you sharing that um and again uh but I do think right that it's important that it it isn't it isn't a matter of PD and class trips right it's not Bann equipment that we can discuss you know it is it is truly a a a fundamental change that needs to be needs to happen right the the the the contracts that we have entered into right come with

086a bill right that bill is is another million dollars uh in in one case right that million dollars is is a million dollars this year it's a million dollars next year it's a million dollars on top of that right so numbers are going to continue to grow um we need to we need to find a way um to to adjust the structure in order to uh to to meet uh the requirements right as a you know as we said right we made a lot of one-time changes we deferred this we deferred that we took money out of the savings account right that was that was where we ended up last year and and and I hope uh I hope Mr Gard I hope we don't won't end up there again yeah to that point and

087to pck you back off of what you were saying Mark these are the big ticket items right and as much as we are loed to make some of these moves this is where the larger savings live and we can't keep nickel and diming at some point if if we're serious about cutting something it gets to the point where we were looking at the stuff we really don't want to touch because that's where the savings are so if we look at that act one of four % you know doing my little napkin math here that's $3,600,000 right we're still about a million in change short so we we got to save something somewhere because otherwise we're you know has to be year after year structural changes right and so so you know if even if you

088go to that Max which you know again the board hasn't had the appetite to do in the past if we did go to the 4% there still a million and change to make up so the lower you go from that act one more of the Odus cuts that we have to look at so you have to think about it that way too it's actually more than a million yeah I mean it's yeah it's over it's several that's you're you're 100% correct there right and when we look at the ah come on there we go right this we're we're at $4.6 million with a 4% increase increase so if we're not if if we're not at 4% we're at 3% right we're now $900,000 more right so we're it h uh 55 right in in a

089deficit so that's the that's sort of the reality uh that we find ourselves in right we're going to continue uh working with uh with the department heads and the leads and and trying to scrub those numbers down and making sure our assumptions uh are clear and accurate are forecast for uh the special education students uh and our special needs areas are are taken into account as we've shared uh right now we've we've we uh we anticipated a higher number uh in last year's budget than is actually playing out um so we have some we have some opportunity there we have to see how that plan uh goes carrying forward so question to Dr Wilson um for this school year how many full-time FTE did we add or did we not add and is there any

090anticipation on additional full-time employees in the next school year budget that you're anticipating we're going to need CU I believe we had to hire at least one Elementary School teacher if not two already this year are we anticipating the same type of thing next year or is it just too soon to tell at this point time that's have some balance out to it but if we lose three we lose five teachers that are retiring we have to replace those five teachers but we still increased our teaching staff this year by one or two teachers as well because we had growth and other other needs that had to be filled so I'm kind of get want to try to get a feeling of what is what is already determined for next year's budget if we have

091an planned increase or not or if you're anticipating a leval staffing for next year how how is that playing out right now what are your anticipations with the number the amount that we are paying for substitute teachers are we looking to hire more in-house substitute teachers to try to reduce that rate does it not work that way what are your thoughts on on those type of ideas as you know and thank you it's a great question I appreciate the question uh a part of that challenge though is that the the timing in how things roll out it's budget season now so we have to project you know and there's some there are some data points that haven't revealed themselves or don't reveal themselves to us at this stage right um one of them example you've

092already alluded to um so student registration right happens and will continue all the way happening into the startup of the school year those additional positions that you alluded to happen as a result of let's face it um an increase of registration but also a lot of late registrations as well right which then triggers our policy language so then well after budget formation and well after we've already made determination on what class size is and baked that into the pie then registration reality so that's a that's a wild card that um a data point that's just not available to us in advance but interestingly enough to the to your point we can look at Trend data right and some of the trend data has let's face it we've added an additional teacher whether or not it

093was in the kindergarten several years ago three whether but not was last year um I believe we added uh at least but not in kindergarten different grade level so across multiple grade levels an additional teacher last year I believe potentially two yes or two um so we've seen three we've seen two and now we're about to approach another year right so we if we take the worst end of that assuming potentially even three you know um along with some of the give and take Dr Maguire which is uh you know uh we have some projector time and hopefully the incentive program um that uh that you guys approve thank you very much um will help create a an additional buffer so that we can absorb that more right um but if you're asking for specifics

094in terms of whatever it's it's really hard to give you a specific because the registration component is an unknown to us and but we have mechanisms that help us respond to it but knowing what that's going to be I would not go into it expecting anything less than anywhere between one to three additional teachers because that's what we've seen over the last three years then the question is to to just to just to jump on the on the wagon there and give a shout out to Ala Thomas and right ala is is in in the restructuring right one of the things that she was gifted uh was more work towards overseeing registration right so she's overseeing registration uh you'll notice the billboard on uh on Street Road here uh Street Jacksonville is now advertising District

095uh uh what's the word I just registration registration thank you very much colen Ro um uh uh Centennial Elementary registration registration for everybody right uh it's it's March it's February right that sign is blazing right so we're really doing everything we can as um Dr Wilson shared right we were behind the ball uh given the change and giving the activity that was going on when we hit last year right so we were a little behind it took uh it took a an extra uh extra work to get us caught up uh but we weren't really where we needed to be and and thank you uh Alia who you're out there tuned in uh she's really pushing to make sure that those registration opportunities are known uh she's planning to be at the different schools for

096the different title events to make sure that she's sharing that information trying to everything she can do to get those students uh enrolled and registered uh within this school year right that's really where her focus is right she's you know she'll tell you I don't want anyone signing up on uh on August 25th right that's that's a dream right but we're all allowed to dream uh she's just looking to make sure we get a better handle on that and hopefully we do that and that's something that we track very diligently once we hit March right we look at that number uh on the registration side particular around those kindergarten classrooms cu for the most part at a large scale our classes move together what question for you what about the um rezoning um based on

097you know need if we have more in McDonald or we have more at Willowdale so we wouldn't have to cut any something else we could you know restructure to save some funds for our tax taxpayers is that possible or if we look at it now would we be able to implement it before you know well probably not before the budget but anybody thoughts on that were you reaching for your microphone or no we can turn it I know that's not a I know it's not a popular it's never it's not popular topic but um if we can not not cut a program and just it's more classroom balancing siid balancing certainly balancing right that's that's a balancing effort and certainly one that could save on is really is really a a somewhat longer term Vision

098right I think it's it's using that en rollan study that we had done um last fall that showed uh the need for that uh so I think that that's a real a real possibility uh and that's that's really moving kids across right it doesn't necessarily unless we're coupling that with with some classroom piece right to allow that to factor in um the same classrooms are just could be just filled in another capacity could we look into that just so we could save the taxpayer and still provide all the activities that we do for our students if there's some minor redistricting we might be able to to shift some student rebalance load so does the 1075 include one to three additional teachers in it or is that based on this year's it it it it does

099it includes probably two two okay so we have an increase of two FTE in that as well so on top of that I mean I know in our education committee we have talked a little about a little bit about kindergarten is coming into the system and particularly special ed kindergarten students coming into the system and there we already know that we have a portion that is already registered or expected to come to The District in some capacity either inhouse or outsourced um with with already having 83 students that we know of that's going to impact you know the number of teachers because they have a much smaller class size sure yep those are those are all factors that uh we need to be taking into account right I think B last year uh a similar

100time we were looking at what we believe to be that incoming number and and how those students were going to uh to to arrive and participate in our district well I guess the big question is will we have more special eded students leaving the system than we might have coming in or will we just simply increase the number we have we I mean we can't I mean I'm sure we can tell you we're going to have more special ucation students I don't know that you can going you talking about aging out aging there will be some that we have to I personally I would think that we have less aging out and more coming in still the way the trend seems to be going that you know you're seeing a you we could certainly ask

101you know what is our percentage of of special ed students in the high school middle school and elementary school and then you know do a determination on that but I would think that we are probably having less aging out and more coming in because we are identifying more and more especially on the elementary school level absolutely right the age is the age number is still a bit of a a squirly uh contact really the sooner that we identify them and get them helped the better chance we have of getting them on the right path quickly as well I have a question on the updated assess value am I the only person that's confused that it dropped isn't that isn't that based on property values don't things generally get better it's it's based on assessed value

102right so there's never been a a reassessment in since 1952 1952 thank you Mr gicon right and we had a few businesses that asked for a reassessment and their reassessment was lower right and then you have some larger property as well whose value had had fluctuated so do we have so the assessment's done we don't have to worry about this dropping any further in this budget ccle again to Mr harlin's point right it could be challenged right and and you could you could argue that that my office building right is is is not not worth the same as it used to be when more people came to the office right and and Sh about this dropping any further this budget I think that's just feedback so to the uh to the comment that you made

103earlier uh Mr Fleming and um also uh when it comes to um extended services or uh Services as far as our students uh coming back and versus how long those students are here um we are also impacted by the fact that uh pte um just increased or extended uh services so uh that's not likely to get any better in fact um we have a an additional responsibility to extend services for even longer so to that time period that you referring to Mr heartline that's not going the other direction it's actually going the other way and unfortunately there's always been this gap between like 21 and 25 that needs to be filled for special needs young adults and it's it's a difficult situation for any parent that's in that position and they're taking movements towards it

104um the unfortunate side is again it may become an unfunded mandate for us now can Mr Harline can you hear me yes I can Dr B if you all remember last year PD there was a big controversy about extending in a lawsuit uh the length of time that special ed services have to be provided to students that has not been resolved yet we're sitting in a holding and gray pattern so the C factor and when they leave is still uncertain so that's the extended services issues so uh they were giving additional time that we had to provide services with regards to the resoning if you remember sometimes if you reone and balance your enrollment you don't have to add a teacher the fact that we have zones where we have schools that are over enrolled

105or potentially going to be over enrolled we're adding teachers to fill a to address a class in one school predict and many times at McDonald or Davis and sometimes you have lower class sizes at Willowdale that could absorb the space and you would not have had to add a teacher so that's where the resoning comes in if you remember from uh the presentation to try to balance out enrollment yes now that is to miss Cron's question that would be probably challenging for this year but that's something that has to be brought back to the table if you want long-term savings and see if it's still viable option because then that way you're not adding a teacher when you use use space with uh under enroll or small class sizes in another building so if uh

106the items that Mr uh green would have on that list of big structural things that's a big deal thing that takes time and that could be added to that list of of the things that we examine and look at because that is a big structural item well if 4 million short at 4% maybe we could add it to the take a look at it yeah you know okay yeah I think it would be prudent yeah especially if that that's going to move the needle on you know it theing thing would be likened to the high school schedule thing that will take time but it gives you recurring savings uh because you're going to continue face a deficit model even after next year so it's still something that you're gonna have to look at to help

107deal with the idea that you got to get cuts that are savings and perpetuity versus one-time cuts and and if I may add to that too the high school schedule may be something that needs to be done imminently because we're going to have students starting to schedule for next year very soon well my point to that though you may not be able to turn it fast enough this year but you still may need to look at it even if it goes into effect the year after that because that'll be recurring savings was my point uh Mr Harline yeah I think that's something that you know we need to get get on now that we need some some serious information regarding that in the next week or two so that we can as a board start

108to decide whether or not that's a direction we want to go because we need to to to Tony's point you know it's when you know 39 million of your 150 million is your discretionary stuff that you have some control over the rest is your fixed income you can't raise revenue so you have to cut expenditures and that's the biggest side of the expenditure we need to figure out a way that we can manage that with little or no impact to our children's education can I ask one just one question briefly yes Mr I could cuz there's going to have to be tough decisions made to make this work nobody likes to make tough decisions but my question is in the totality of employees that we have in the district seems to me there are two

109categories of those employees some are actually mandated employees that we absolutely need to have required to have and can't do without there are also a number of employees and I don't know what that number is maybe Dr Wilson might know that are not mandated to have have but we have them because it was thought over time that these were wonderful things and we need to do them for people CU they're nice and they help people and this and that but we're not required to do them is there any way that we can get some type of listing of sorts of what employees are mandated or absolutely not you need bus drive you need cafeteria workers you need teachers but there's another category that I think we have have that isn't mandated it's nice in the

110areas maybe I I'm not picking on them but social emotional learning social work things of that type we have employees doing that work I I don't know is they're mandated my question is if we could have a list of of of jobs not people's names necessarily but jobs that aren't required or mandated so that if there needs to be Cuts that's where you would look to see what could possibly be reduced if that's possible I don't know but a fair question nobody wants to make any Cuts but there will have to be some to get the $4.5 million period Mr Martin I would say and tweak your comment it really is anything beyond a mandate or everything is a choice like you mentioned we have to have bus drivers we actually don't have to have

111but a certain number they would make that list as an example people think it's a requirement it's only requirement for special ed and certain unsafe routes so we can give you the list but some of those are still going to come back to what the board believes is needed I think your term is is going to be need uh that's going to be uh the the real choice so if Mr Dr and produces that list it really is going to be a conversation around do we believe we need it because when you say mandate there are a lot of things that people think are mandated they're not mandated and I only use that I'm not saying we're going to cut bus drivers I just use it because you mentioned it and actually those are some

112of the ones that are not required except for certain areas uh that the number would be smaller but you wouldn't necessarily do that because then you may negatively impact other things so we can generate the list but it's going to be bigger than what you would think and have some things on it that really are not mandates just to give the board a heads up thank you districts do any other districts have a cap when enrollment for mbit uh no not that I'm aware of not at this time but mbit has a cap on and even if we doesn't mean that they couldn't fill those spots you know so cost wouldn't not necessarily go down yeah says how many how many we can send how many um Council Rock or Central Bucks whatever cons send

113correct not now okay I I think they open it up right and students enroll whether those are students from uh Centennial Central Bucks Council Rock or New Hope silbury right New Hope silbury has very few students um at mbit right they have may be a handful um whereas a like Central Bucks we're proportionately a school like Centennial right we have more students uh going to Central Buck or going to NBI right now it's about 29% from Centennial 44% from Central Central bux and somewhere in the mid 20s for Council Rock yeah but if you have 50 electrical spots open and we have 28 students here that wanted and only nine from Central Bucks wanted you know our 28 students would get that um because that's in that specific program and the cost allocation is based

114on you know in theory the number of students nbit limits based on the physical size of the building the physical size of the class spaces how many instructors they have to be able to man every every or you know provide teachers for every program so they self-limit how many total students and then each district just you you apply and those positions get filled and then the districts get built for the percentage of their students that make up the total percentage so they don't they only limit because of their size I think what we're talking about is limiting how many we send so our out- of pocket expense is smaller so if it's a um a program where a lot of students want to go to it's a competitive to get in yes so okay it's

115not just no you can only send me five or whatever it's but it may be a there's currently a fairly long waiting list to get into electrical program this is why we're looking at you know adding an electrical teacher to the program you know if we did that the program would be full but there is a maximum capacity to the school obviously thank you all right do we have any other questions any questions from Miss Lynch Miss banata Dr Bon thank you Mr G for your wonderful I say thank you very much you're good yep wonderful thank you all for uh for tuning in greatly appreciate it say Dr or doctor gav you an elevation Mr Greenwood I just GNA more thank you for your your work thank you for all the extra work on

116the the slides and the the breakdown that helped a lot all right so to you Mr y all in favor of that