001Good evening board. So before you have our special uh board meeting to approve our consent agenda for round 3A personal recommendations. I don't have any superintendent comments right now. [laughter] Thank you for recognizing me. I'm Ross Noland, a parent to seventh grader at Plasky Heights Middle School. And uh as I like to remind people, Mr. Tiger Spirit 1999. Uh I am here to address uh the fact that Central softball coach has recently resigned. Uh, I appreciate what Coach Baldwin did for the program. Uh, he spent some time at a clinic that I helped run last summer diving in the dirt, teaching 8 to 12 year olds how to safely get back on base with a pickoff attempt. And, uh, he did a fantastic job, and I'm sorry to see him go. But what I want
002to impress on y'all is that this is an opportunity for the softball program. This is a moment where we can do something right for a group of girls that, as you've heard about over the last few months, has had a tough go at it and may not be treated equally under the district's current policies. So, I'd like for you to take a moment and consider that in the context of both Title 9 and competitiveness. As your attorney uh told you a few weeks ago, coaching is part of the Title 9 criteria, opportunity to receive coaching and academic tutoring and assignment and compensation of coaches and tutors. So, I would like to challenge y'all as a district and as the board to consider what qualifications this next softball coach has. The baseball coach at Central when
003he was hired was a four-year letterman at his college in baseball and also had head coaching experience at another high school before he was hired. I would challenge you to say that that is the very minimum that should also be considered qualifications for a softball coach. That's a step towards equity. The second thing I hope you consider is competitiveness. If you look at who finished ahead of us in the 6A Central at Bryant, that coach was promoted after being an assistant coach on a state championship team led by a coach who was a former college athlete and a state champion as a head coach herself. Kitt seed in the 6A or excuse me, Conway, the second seed in the 6A Central. Their coach was a former college softball player who won multiple state championships at
004lower levels before being hired at a 6A school. At KBIT, their coach won multiple championships at smaller schools and had almost 400 career wins or has more than 400 career wins to his name and is a former Arkansas softball coach of the year. This morning, Central season unfortunately ended against Rogers Heritage. Their coach has written a book entitled Developing a Championship Softball Program. At the time of his hiring in 2019, he had 385 career victories. So, I challenge you when this comes before you who the next coach is going to be. Let's make a good decision. Let's not to give you an analogy do the convenient thing. I want everybody to take a moment and close your eyes and think about this. There's a young assistant female softball coach at Central High School. The baseball
005head coach position becomes available. That young assistant female softball coach who has never been a head coach or coached baseball is promoted to the head baseball coach position. What is the reaction in each of your minds when you think about that? it wouldn't work, would it? So, let's do the right thing for these girls. Let's do the right thing for Title Nine, and let's do the right thing for the competitiveness of this program. And let's hire a qualified coach and get this program on the track it needs to be for Title N. And what these girls deserve for competitiveness. Thank you very much. Do you want to repeat it? >> My name is Tiffany Lichka and my daughter is a freshman on the central softball team. Let me start by saying that the entire team
006left the school board meeting last month feeling very validated and hopeful. So, thank you for listening. When we left that meeting, we were told that a mitigation plan would be presented in May. and we were hopeful that the plan would include some discussion of both short and long-term solutions. Unfortunately, what has transpired in the last two weeks has been less than hopeful. First, two weeks ago, our coach told the parents that he was asked to step down at the end of this season, but urged us not to tell our daughters as there were still two weeks left to play. He has coached the final stretch and even held tryyous for next year's team. Today was his last day with the team, and he broke the news on the bus ride home from state just a
007few hours ago. Meanwhile, another coach at the school has been telling students for weeks that he is going to be the next softball coach. This left the girls feeling confused and likely wondering if their activism caused the firing of their coach as no one is being clear with them. Secondly, have we hired a new coach already without posting the job and searching for a qualified candidate? Is this how we would hire a new football, basketball, or baseball coach? If we change coaches in a desire for equality, this process does not meet the mark. Third, Coach McGee asked the softball team to meet with the baseball team to discuss the attorney's proposal. This is a disastrous idea and one that I sincerely hope you stop before it happens. The girls should not be having to convince
008the boys of an equitable solution. putting them in that position is only as only going to force the girls to either be the enemy or to keep everyone happy by agreeing to something less than equitable. The boys do not need a say in the decisions about equitable treatment for the girls. Furthermore, how should the girls be forced to decide on a short-term solution when they've been offered no information about a long-term solution? Will they agree to share a field or playoff site for one more year? Maybe. Will they agree indefinitely? Of course not. Lastly, asking the central athletic director to handle this situation as a local school matter feels like a slap in the face to the female athletes at Central. They came to you to offer to ask for a solution. And they've been
009left to work with an administration that put them in this position to begin with. An administration that saw fit for the girls to play offsite while the boys got a $5 million baseball field. an administration that gave the boys who still have five locker rooms in the new facility and the girls have one that they cannot all fit in. And now an administration that thinks the boys should have a say in if and how the girls receive equity. an administration that originally scheduled this said meeting between the softball and baseball teams at the exact time that the softball team would be on a bus headed to the state tournament. Please take a hold of the reigns and present some solutions that will remedy this situation without forcing our daughters to keep fighting with an administration
010that has proven not to care. Thank y'all for for having us today. I'd like to uh guess discuss the option A and option B that that was sent out. Um, for one, we never wanted to take away from the baseball. That's wrong to begin with, right? So, if we shared their field with them throughout a whole season and played, I guess, conference home games there, right? Now, we have two issues. Now, we have two teams that are that are Right. We know the struggle. So, we the last thing we want to do is take the field away from the boys baseball team, right? Um, not only that, the uh the changes that have to be made to it. That's beautiful. Brand new state ballpark. You don't want to go there and have to put up
011a short back stop for for softball, right? You got to have a long back stop for baseball, short for softball, right? So, how how do you how do you mitigate that is is a question I have. Do you put up a a temporary wall and have to tear down, you know, for for a baseball game, put it back up for a softball game? The uh the removable mound is pretty heavy. Uh you know, who's going to be in charge of that? Does the softball team, you know, come in, tear it down, then the team has to come put everything back together. Is there going to be a crew do that? Same with defense. Same with the bases. Uh, you know, and and it says in the proposal, you know, one team can volunteer to play
012off site, practice off site. Who's that going to be, right? We all know it would be us because one, we're not going to force a baseball they have to move when they have a state of the art brand new field. That's that's not that's not the answer. Um maybe in off, you know, off season early in the year, I'm sure they're going to have workout days. We have workout days. We can split a field during that time. But, you know, like I said, there there's no long-term plan. That's what we need to try to say yes, this this works. But but whatever we have here doesn't work. It's uh it's bad for for both. You know, you got a team struggling to to get to practice. Now, like I said, now you're going to have
013two teams doing that. And and that's that's not not the way we want to do it. Not the way we should have to choose to do it. U and I'm not even sure what what the Monday meeting is. They can they just said we're having a meeting with the baseball team and parents and coaches and they seem pretty pretty heated about it, you know. So, you know, which is fine. I understand. I would be too, you know, if they thought that, oh, we just got a brand new field and now somebody's trying to take it away. We're not trying to take the field away. So, um, I guess we'll know more Monday after the meeting, but I appreciate appreciate y'all's time. Thanks for having us. Thanks for listening to me as well. I'm a parent
014of a central softball player who's graduating, but I still feel so strongly. And I would first like to thank you for having us at your previous meeting. However, in light of recent actions taken by either the school or the district, many of us are confused and frustrated and we do not understand what the district is trying to accomplish. Our coach has been relieved of his duties and naturally many parents and players are questioning why. We know this was not due to poor performance as the team advanced to state tournament as the number four seed. This week, parents were both parents from both the softball and baseball programs were called to what was described as an urgent meeting supposedly requested by Dr. Wright for Wednesday evening. During the same time, our softball team was traveling to
015Springdale for the state tournament. Um, after some exchanging of emails, the meeting was rescheduled for Monday, this coming Monday evening. We um received a memo from Dr. Wright that was sent to you, the board, regarding the softball field. And I would like to express several concerns. First, asking the teams to decide among themselves who practices where and who plays where and when is only creating division between the baseball and softball families. Unfortunately, softball players and families are already being ridiculed on social media. Comments have been made. Comments have been made suggesting that we are trying to take something away from the baseball team, that the softball that the softball team does not deserve its own field, and other hurtful remarks made by adults, parents um of students in other schools. This growing hostility is deeply
016concerning, and I do not believe the proposed meeting between the two programs will be productive or healthy for either group. Second, altering the baseball field to accommodate the softball team does not seem like the best solution. We appreciate you thinking of that. Our softball program does not want to take anything away from the baseball program, nor disrupt what the players, families, and supporters have worked so hard to build. The baseball team deserves to enjoy and fully utilize its field. Even with the best intentions, sharing the field will continue to create scheduling conflicts and logistical issues. The softball team operates its own concession stand, while the baseball concession stand is operated by the flag line. Coordinating inventory, equipment, and responsibilities between two separate programs would likely become difficult and inefficient. In addition, the constant movement and
017modification of full of field components many act may eventually may eventually cause unnecessary wear or damage to the baseball facility. We are not asking to disrupt the baseball program. We support them and respect what they have accomplished. We simply want a fair and workable solution for our softball athletes as well. And in closing, I would like to respectfully request a meeting between the school board and the softball team families. It does not need to be on record and we do not have to have cameras or recordings. We simply want the opportunity for honest and respectful conversation so that our concerns can be heard directly. Thank you. I move that we approve the consent agenda items as follows. 4.1 26 to 27 round 3A staff recommendations and 4.2 personnel changes. >> I second. >> I carries
018Let me see the agenda here real quick. I think uh Dr. right has been pretty much just putting an update on every meeting from the previous one. I think we're well I know we're still working out through if you look at the 514 one still a few areas that have to be filled out on the budget reduction document there. So it's still waiting on some staffing numbers as far as I think secondary be put on there. I think y'all have been approving after each meeting. Maybe >> Madam Chair, I would move that the LRSD board of education approve the reimagine positions detailed in the budget FY27 budget reduction framework planning document that was sent to us and and is on the agenda tonight. Sorry about that. 6.2 two RSD and learns lawsuit discussion update possible
019action. >> So, I think Mr. Heler is here, so I think we can bring him up um for for questions. Um Director Johnson, if it's okay with you, I'm going to kind of maybe give a a brief overview. Um Mr. Heler and I have been in touch the last week. um asked him for some of the briefs with regards to the lawsuit and kind of wanted to make sure the board all saw his communication but also that the public know what was communicated to all of us uh with regards to the cost and all of those things. Um so Mr. I'll probably make comments and just uh make sure that what I'm saying is accurate if that's okay with you. Um but we we did receive communication from Mr. Heler that the projections if we
020decide to remain in the lawsuit uh will be somewhere around $100,000. Um I did ask him is that in addition to the 40 or is that including the 40? Um and he replied that that's maximum in addition um is that correct Mr. Heler that it would be a potential additional 100,000 if we stay in the lawsuit. Um and then um and then the other piece I asked him about was to to send me all the briefs so that I could review them. Um, I'd read the original Faulenberry briefs but not had an opportunity to um, read our briefs to intervene. Um, so just to get everybody caught up on that, originally there were three arguments in the briefs that Mr. Heler and the Friday Perm firm put together and they were really around three different
021issues of law, right? So one was the establishment clause which we're going to come back to in just a second. There was an equal protection clause argument and then there were a number of Arkansas state constitutional arguments which I've always thought were some of the strongest ones and actually appreciate the brief because I think that's where some of the the biggest violations potentially are. Um since then though um we had to amend those complaints and those briefs to intervene. Um so we have now dropped two of the three uh arguments. So, at this point, the equal protection provision and the Arkansas state constitutional grounds for a number of reasons that Mr. Heler explained um are no longer a part of our lawsuit to intervene. And so, what that means is that the only part that's
022left is the establishment clause. Um I know not all of you went to law school uh like Mr. Heler and I. Um so, just a a quick briefing, that's the separation of church and state issue. It means that a government cannot establish religion. And so that's the the crux of the case at this point in time is is the Learns Act violating the establishment clause because a vast majority of the schools that are getting these dollars are in fact schools that um have different religious affiliations. Is that a fair summary so far, Mr. Heler? >> Perfectly fair. >> All right. Perfect. Um so at the last meeting um if you remember there were a few questions that we had for Mr. Heler. Um, one was with regarding the funding which director strong uh brought up
023and so we now know what that number is. Um, the question I asked him was really around what additional arguments, what additional credibility, what's the additional substantive reason if we remain in the lawsuit, um, what what additional gravitas do we bring to the lawsuit? Um, and so I I think and Mr. Heler, correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the the the the pieces you mentioned were around resources and the ability to obviously the district is is different than individual plaintiffs, but also was the ability to call people like Mr. Bailey as witnesses. Is there other kind of pieces or I'll let you maybe touch on that first before I continue. So, >> uh, no, I I think that's the guts of it, but there is, you know, I I mentioned in my memo to
024the board, I was thinking back on the Lake View case and how that started out with a small school district arguing that the state funding was inequitable. And then several larger school districts got in and really changed the course of that litigation, including by adding the argument that state funding was terribly inadequate and that a redistribution of inadequate funding more equitably wouldn't do anybody any good. So I just thought of that as an example where the Little Rock School District along with in that case Rogers and Pilaski County, maybe one or two others made a significant difference in both statewide school funding and the results for larger districts with, you know, more complex education issues. >> And and so I think that's where maybe my first question is tonight. And then I was going to
025kind of summarize for for the board for maybe discussion purposes. Um, so I would agree with you especially on the state constitutional arguments. There's a lot of validity to us being in that lawsuit, right? In that and specifically the state grounds because there we've got the data. We we can talk specifically to that provision of the Arkansas State Constitution. The establishment clause is a little bit different, right? in that, you know, whether we're in it or not, the religiosity piece is not something that we're necessarily experts in. Um, Mr. Bailey could still be called as a witness. Uh, whether we're in the lawsuit or not, they could still subpoena him. I'm not suggest Is he still here? Okay. I'm not suggesting that they should. Um, but during the discovery process, obviously, those plaintiffs could still
026request information from the LRSD. Is that a fair assumption? Correct. And so what I was hoping to maybe get from you now that we know it's narrowed down just to the establishment clause, why it would make sense for us to remain in an issue that is not as direct facing necessarily to the LRSD and that the current plaintiffs could potentially represent that issue and that violation similarly to ourselves being in it. Again, I'm still trying to balance the cost versus that. So maybe if if you could address I think you've got a good point that we don't really add anything to the argument that funding 80% religious schools with hundreds of millions of dollars is a violation of the establishment clause. I mean, those facts are out there. I don't think our ability to uncover
027them is really any different than the current plaintiffs in the case. I think where we would make a difference would be in showing the impact of that. So, you know, there's unlikely to be much dispute about who's getting the vouchers, you know, what schools, where they're going, how much money. You know, the question is what's the impact on LRSD and the public school system, public education across the state. Um, and you're right. I would much rather be in a position to argue about the state constitution because I think state constitution makes it clear where public funds are supposed to education and what sort of support public education in Arkansas should have. But I I do think we have something to contribute on the equal protection argument just in terms of the impact and particularly the
028impact of districts. You know, as I described LSD in my memo to the board, we do [singing] have, I think, more than the average school district in the state, kids with greater educational challenges. And to the extent um more kids leave, more affluent kids leave, more kids with the ability to provide themselves transportation and provide whatever part of the tuition the state money doesn't provide, then the more we have challenges of educating kids with greater levels of poverty and probably greater educational needs. So I think those are the kinds of things that people RSD could present to the court. >> And so I think to kind of summarize for the board and then obviously any questions you all may have as well. Um I think you can kind of see the evolution of the lawsuit.
029The arguments that you know I think were probably the strongest um are no longer part of that. I think there's still on the state there is a separate lawsuit from my understanding that is still challenging on those state constitutional grounds that we are not a part of currently. Um but I think fundamentally there's three choices for the board, right? So one is we continue with the lawsuit regardless of what the judge decides. Right? So obviously the judge still has not decided whether we can intervene to my knowledge unless that happened today. Okay. Um >> so so we could decide to continue on and even if he rules we can't we could start an appeals process and potentially go that direction. Um the second is that we could wait for the judge and just say hey
030we're not spending any additional dollars. Let's just continue to wait. Um and if the majority of the board says we just want to wait it out, let's see what the outcome is. Then we can make a decision, we could obviously do that. Um the third is to make a decision that whether we are allowed to intervene or not is a question of are we justified in spending an extra $100,000 um to continue in a lawsuit that again I think we bring something to the table perhaps, but not as much as we would have with some of those other arguments. um the lawsuit would continue regardless. Um and and I I always think about dollars in terms of context, right? Um context meaning $100,000 is like one to two teachers, right? That we could have in
031our schools. It's $100,000 towards programs or other things that we know need to be happening in the schools. And I think we have a fiduciary obligation fundamentally as board members. And so while we personally may have very strong opinions uh with the problems with vouchers um and I personally as a citizen may not like the idea of us spending $400 million of of state money towards private schools. I can speak to that on my private as as a citizen but the question is as board members do we have a fiduciary obligation to weigh those and I think maybe open it up to you all now to see what questions you have of Mr. propeller and then also maybe to get some perspective and feeling as to where folks are on those three options I think
032would maybe be helpful as well. >> Okay. So [clears throat] from the beginning you said something about there were three points and now we're down to the establishment clause. Is that correct? So how did we get to that point? >> Yeah. So I I'll defer to Mr. Heler but there were some specific legal arguments that were pulled out um both by the Faulenberry case but I'll I'll leave that to Mr. you did say were the strongest. The first two that you >> mentioned, Mr. So, the equal protection clause arguments, I think there there is some strength in those. I think the state constitutional ones were probably some of the strongest in my opinion. I'll defer to Mr. Heler as the one running the lawsuit, but with my legal background, I I think those were some
033of the strongest for sure. >> Yeah. And the short answer to your question, M. Johnson is those issues came out at the hearing on the motion to dismiss filed by the state against the Faulenberry plaintiffs and it was clear uh what issues were going to be allowed to proceed and the Falconberry plaintiffs survived that motion to dismiss but only with respect to the establishment clause issue. So, and for us with respect to the equal protection issue, there was a standing problem about whether a subdivision, a municipal uh subdivision of the state has standing to bring equal protection claims and there are cases that say no. Our argument is much better on what they call in the cases a structural provision of the constitution such as the equal protection clause that applies broadly to limit what
034the state can do. So and the state law claims the same thing happened. We we had a standing issue. There were some issues that the well the Falconbury plist already have a state law case going. So those two things were out as far as we were concerned. The judge has been considering I think for a little over a month our remaining arguments about standing on the equal sorry the establishment clause issue and there was a hearing by the way this just an aside but there was a hearing last week I think in the state court case just a preliminary hearing before Judge Fox and I was kind of happy to hear Judge Fox questioning one of the proposed intervenor lawyers. The same groups that support vouchers nationwide and have intervened in the federal case are
035intervening in the state court case and the judge when questioning their preparation for that work asked if they were familiar with the Lake View case. So apparently he considers that to be an important factor in uh what how he's going to take a look at the state law issues in the case before him. >> So if we if nothing [clears throat] happens and the lawsuit fails that mean that that 400 million can get up to 800 million, right? Is that >> right? Well, apparently um the legislature so far hasn't been willing to support any limitations on it. >> Okay. So, individuals are asking me if a private school receives public funds, are they still considered a private school? Well, that's another interesting question that's coming up because the plaintiffs, the Falconberry plaintiffs have been sending
036out discovery and even FOIA requests. So, that's uh to a lot of the private schools that receive this voucher money. So, there's going to >> on the state or constit if they were sending those foyer requests on state or federal. I'm not even sure which one it is, but the issue is going to be teed up about whether the receipt of public funds, you know, how that might impact um the whether the private schools are subject to the FOIA, for example. And you know, there's also a ballot initiative, of course, about whether uh private schools who receive state funding um should be subject to the same types of requirements, testing, and other requirements that public schools are subject to. >> So, at this point, what are the pros and cons? >> Well, I think Mr.
037Kitzky summed it up. I mean, it's one of those things that the board has to consider, right, with any expenditure, what's more valuable? What's going to help the students in the district more in the short term and long term? And you know, my father was a teacher, my grandmother was a teacher. It's hard to argue against two teachers, but you know, I think there's also some value in trying to fix this situation before, as you say, it just increases exponentially. I don't know. It's hard to hard to see what the impacts are going to be. Derek Adams. >> Thank you, Miss Johnson, and and thank you, Mr. Kitzky, for the summary and and thoughts on this. Um, I have a comment and a question, Mr. Heler. So, on the comment, I just to say that
038for me, where I am, at least for today, is I I'm reluctant to to change course until we hear from the judge and have a better clear understanding where I'm at. I'm when I think about the fiduciary responsibility, I I think that's a very I take it very seriously. I do think about it in the long term because I think about decisions that we make today which might have a chance on impacting, you know, school districts decisions 10 years from now or 20 years from now. you know, if if things if this current system proceeds and is not challenged and and is not changed in some way. So, that's that's at least been part of my thought process. But, I'm I want to be continue to be open as we're thinking about this. And I
039do want to ask Mr. Heler about this idea of impact. So I am not an attorney and uh have not done that but I need to if you could help me understand better what role impact would have because part of me even though I voted to do this in the beginning and and don't want to change that direction at least at the moment part of me wonders does impact have any bearing on the decision of this case because is the decision based on other legal matters where they're they're not looking at the consequences of it. They're just looking at does this violate, you know, the law in terms of mixing, you know, religion and state, you know, regardless of consequence and is that where it's coming in and so but if impact makes a difference,
040I I need to I'm not following that and and I would like to understand how impact makes a difference. >> Yeah. Well, I think uh the short answer is, you know, in any case, you have to show both to get standing and to win some sort of relief how what is happening impacts you and why it's wrong. And so that's something I think the district could do easier than a group of teachers and parents is to show and what the impact has been on our district what the impact has been on other district and that and and that this is consequential and I think you know judges are human that's going to have an impact if it looks like you know we are on a steady trend to toward undermining public education And I did
041leave references in our amended complaint to the Arkansas Constitution merely to show that what the state has decided to do is in disregard to that. Even though we can't raise in federal court the violation of the state constitution and win on that issue, we can show that this effort, you know, that there is an intentional effort establish a separate primarily sectarian school system because in order to do that you've got to disregard your obligations under the state constitution. If you're willing to do that, it seems more likely that you're aware and being intentional about what you're doing or at least disregarding what your obligations are. So I think that everything about the motivation, the impact is important. I just think Again, thinking back to the Lake View case where we were able to show not
042just that state funding was inadequate, but that it had a significant impact on LRSD and other districts throughout the state. I think that kind of evidence is important and makes a difference to a judge if otherwise this case is just theoretical, right? is does any public money going to private schools violate the establishment clause? Well, you know, at some level it doesn't. There have been cases decided that way. So, this is, you know, more a matter of degree. Is this case different in kind from cases that have reached the Supreme Court before over much smaller issues involving the establishment. So, so just as a followup to understand so that the if I'm following your point that that the reason that it's relevant the impact would be relevant wouldn't be the theoretical separation of church and
043state but it could be that it is that it could that this way the state has chosen to go their policy and and and the practices that they have chosen could um compromise ize their legal responsibilities and another part to to provide an adequate education. Is that >> Yes, I think that's part of it, but another part is >> the difference between uh explaining to the judge or arguing that well um sure we've got this other system, but public schools are doing fine. They've got plenty of money. They're not losing kids. Everybody's great. been showing that what's the the vouchers that use public money to encourage students to attend private sectarian schools has a very significant demonstraable impact on public education and our students and our ability to meet the needs of our students. So,
044I think that's the kind of thing that gets the judges attention, not the theoretical idea that there's some funding going to private schools, but it hasn't really had much of an impact on anybody. >> Thank you. That's helpful. >> Thank you both. Um, I appreciate as a non attorney, I always appreciate going over one more time. Um, I have two two questions. Um the first is about about other programs in the state where we support faith-based entities and how this is different. And I think it comes back to Lake View and our guarantee to a a free and equitable equitable public education through and I may have gotten those words wrong um but through Lake View but we currently have we subsidize early childhood programs in faith-based institutions. So a church-based daycare or child care
045facility. We also I went to college on a state scholarship at a private religiously affiliated college at Hendricks College um on a governor scholarship there and had state funds that covered my education there. How is this different? That's my first question. And how are we I guess I ask why I ask about this because in my eyes they seem very similar to programs we already have within our state government. I think the the concept is similar. The magnitude and the impact are different. And that's why I mentioned last time I was with you the some of the cases that the United States Supreme Court has already decided about relatively small programs, >> right? um you know, including the situation in Maine where there was just some funding of if your school district didn't have a
046secondary school and you were going to provide tuition for a secondary school, you couldn't discriminate against religious schools. So, you do have that concept in multiple Supreme Court decisions generally involving very small programs. I mentioned another one that cost maybe $300,000 a year for six years or something and it's same kind. It was a tuition program. But what we have here that I think is different when you're talking about an establishment of religion instead of a small program where you're offering something generally but not discriminating against religious entities. here you're creating a separate school system consisting primarily of religious entities and spending hundreds of millions of dollars with no end in sight. So I think that's the primary difference is the magnitude and the impact that when you're looking at the question of whether you've
047really established something or whether you've merely avoided discriminating against a religious entity in a small program that's open to anybody unless you're a religious entity. >> That helps. I don't fully agree with all of that just because I think most of the private colleges in Arkansas are religiously affiliated if I'm thinking off around off the top of my head. And I know for a while the state paid full tuition at full tuition room and board at any private college in the in the in the state of Arkansas for Arkansas students who stayed and scored a certain score on their ACT or SAT which is does have some criteria for that. And so it's not available for everyone but um and I would I would venture to say that if not the majority many of our
048early childhood programs uh a significant percentage of them are FA based. >> But you you reminded Something else too that's important to our discussion and that is uh when you talk about the criteria because some of these programs are aimed at particular problems like poverty or like the absence of a school or like you know the need for available to every individual. Okay, >> that help that helps. I'm just really trying to get into the nitty-gritty of some of this to understand how the differences are in there because I will tell you that my personal um approach to making policy change would lean me toward spending $100,000 or $140,000 or $180,000, whatever it ends up being in total, on a really highly qualified um policy liaison who can work with the state, who can work
049whose job is focused on collabation with our city, collaboration with state government, collaboration with political entities with whom we work and think about the positive, proactive way we could have outcomes that way that are not through the court system where it seems a big toss up. Um, and that's just something I think to Mr. Kitky's point, you know, as we think about tradeoffs, is there a trade-off there that we would want to think about? um in terms of of having a liaison or someone who can represent us on represent us as a as a district in in policy decisions. Um so that that is one thing and then my last question for you if is if we have such a better argument under the Arkansas Constitution, why are we not withdrawing from this and joining
050the other lawsuit? Well, there's probably not a great answer for that, but if you remember when I stepped up to the lect turn when we first voted on this, the motion was to join the Falconbury plus in the federal court lawsuit. and I didn't think we were going to do both and >> it it seemed like a viable lawsuit. So, you know, I thought that was worthwhile and I thought at the time that we might be able to get some of the state court issues included in that lawsuit, but I wish we had been able to. And I do, you know, I did quick AI search update just to be able to bring to the board kind of what was happening around the country on these issues and a lot of the states which have
051blocked or cut back these kind of voucher programs have been state court cases. I mean, with the state court issues out of the federal court case, it' be hard for me to argue that we're any better off in federal court than we would be in state court. >> Director Jackson, >> thank you. Um, one of the things I wanted to address, um, Director Kapinsky mentioned was, you know, we're not attorneys at this table and most of our public that's listening aren't either. And so when they are asking us questions, I think it would be better if we try to get as close to layman's terms as possible so they can really be informed about what's going on. Because when we take the legal and keep using legal terms, then our public kind of gets confused
052and then they come back and ask a lot of questions. And I think we would be well informed if we were making it very simple if we could um for the community who's listening. I tend to agree with Director Adams that um I think listening to um waiting on the judge since it's not going to cost us anything sounds like the right thing to do and continue um to get discussion and hear from our public. I just want to make that clear that the public matters and they have been talking and asking questions and they're listening in, but we really need to be clear so they can understand and that's what I want to say. >> Anybody else? Okay. So, let's make it clear. We got three options here. The board of directors have three
053options. Okay. Either you stop and you won't end up paying $100,000 to the law firm or we can wait on the judge to make their decision which wouldn't cost us anything extra. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. No money at all. Or we could just continue and we would probably spend what? Another $100,000 plus the 40,000 that we've already spent. >> Right. If Yeah. It still depends on Judge Marshall, right? So that's the, you know, that's the fulcrum here. I mean, are we he's going to decide whether we're even have the option of spending $100,000 and participating in lawsuit. So, and I expect we'll know that before too much longer since it's been under consideration for a little over a month so far. So, so if I may, Director Johnson, I I think what
054I'm hearing from everybody, you know, the consensus is it doesn't cost us anything else to wait, right? Let's uh you know, director Adams and Director Jackson have both kind of unless others are elsewhere. Um that, you know, today was hopefully informative and educational just to say, okay, here's where the status of the lawsuit actually is because I think that does maybe impact some of our decision-m longer term. Um, but if if everyone's good, I think we can just hold off for now. Um, and just wait for the judge's decision, that gives us also a few weeks to internalize the information we received today to say, okay, just thinking ahead. And what I would maybe urge all of the board members to think through on their own is regardless of how the outcome comes. So, if
055the judge says no, we still have an option. we could appeal and and spend some money to take it up and see if we can win an appeals case to still be allowed to intervene. Um, if the judge says you are allowed to proceed, then I think we have a question of are we comfortable spending another $100,000 on just this establishment clause issue. And so, um, hopefully this just puts it in context that everybody can take the next few weeks because it may be until the June board meeting before this would come up again just to think through those options. I think may be helpful for everyone. But I just wanted to make sure everyone understood where the lawsuit was currently and how now we're just down to this one issue in the lawsuit perhaps.
056>> Okay. So, I'm not going to make an assumption, but is everybody okay with waiting? because then I think there's no motion on the table and we can probably just move on to the next uh next part. So >> it's just a discussion. >> So we'll just wait. [clears throat] >> Can I can I may I ask I have one thing? >> Yes, ma'am. I would just like to add if we're gonna have four options, I would like for us to consider to or gonna have three options, I would like us to add a fourth which could be either strategically engaging in the other case instead or asking if we wanted to do that and maybe a fifth option of and I mean it would be and if we don't continue to proceed in a
057case of what we could invest those funds in instead if we have already earmarked those in our budget for next year >> and Just for clarity, um if we decided to stop then what money we've spent and we don't appeal, if we don't do anything, >> there is no more money to be spent. Correct. >> Well, so so I think what what could be helpful then um to this fifth option, Mr. is um if the board decided that the state constitutional grounds were were better arguments um and if we decided that we were going to get out of the federal lawsuit and now start the process of intervening in the state one potentially what would those costs look like I think may be helpful to the board is I think what I'm hearing. >> Yeah.
058I don't >> and I think it's going to be around the same amount that we probably spent on this unless there's not a reply back, but I got to imagine it would probably be in that 30 to 40 range as well. >> I wouldn't think so. I I wouldn't think it would be anything like the same process because here we had to go through the briefing process twice and have a hearing in between and I don't think it would be that way in state court. I think we could get a much quicker decision. And I think you know just a preview of our next discussion that if Judge Marshall says that we are not allowed to intervene and if the board is interested in continuing to pursue some kind of remedy, the effort might be
059better made in state court than appealing the intervention decision to the court of appeals. Can all that until we know what the answer is from the district. >> So, are you saying strategically, if you could pick one, which or which I guess if you strategically at this point, knowing what we know about what is in the federal one, if you could pick one, which one would you choose to intervene? >> I I I think they're pretty much in balance right now. I'm just saying the intervention question is tough in federal court. And so, um I think impact in state court. If rather than trying to preserve our right to intervene in federal court would be probably yield more results of the kind you guys are thinking about because you know we could spend months. The
060circuit's not a quick process and we'd miss half this case just trying to appeal the intervention and really depends on what Judge Marshall says. But I just think it would be a whole lot easier if you all wanted to continue the effort to go to state court and try there than to spend months at the circuit court with a difficult argument. >> And I would just say to me that fuels what so I think challenge with this from the beginning is it has not felt strategic. It has not felt like a strategic decision by our board from the very beginning of like weighing do we do A do we do B do we do C you know what are the options it felt like this very out of nowhere we should join this and then
061we had a majority vote to do it and it didn't feel like a strategic decision from the beginning and I think that is um where I'm struggling a little bit and I'd love that we have an opportunity now to sort of take a step back and and think about as a board and I appreciate all you joining this conversation so calmly and thoughtfully about what our most strategic option is going forward to do our due diligent of protecting our board in the short term and also to think about what our involvement looks like in a much more measured way. >> Adams, >> Mr. Heler, if if we decided if that ended up the way things went and we decided to to join the state lawsuit for whatever reasons instead, would we face the same questions
062about about standing and about whether or not we could be a part of that? >> No, we wouldn't we wouldn't have the argument. Well, we would still have some standing arguments, but it's um I I think it would be less of a hurdle in state court and I haven't followed the state court proceedings real closely. I did go by the hearing just to see how things were going last week and so I know we're at a preliminary stage because that matter was in the Arkansas Supreme Court for a long time over an intervention issue by people who wanted to intervene as defendants on the state side. So, it's just getting started back in Judge Fox's court. He was just considering motions to intervene a week ago. So, we would probably be timely. And when I
063heard him say quizzing the potential intervenor lawyer about whether he was familiar with the Lake View case, I thought, well, that's going to be an important part of your decision over here. We know a lot about the case. So, I I have just one more question and and I don't know if anybody's asked you this yet or if other districts have approached you and again I don't want to put the cart before the horse but hypothetically if we went to a state-based case um could you represent multiple districts if they wanted to join to lower the expense if a lot of districts saw the impact of this um would that be a way to perhaps mitate ate some of the expenses or expenditures that the district would would spend. Meaning, could could you go ahead
064and intervene on behalf of multiple school districts? >> Yes. I don't think there would be any conflict. Everybody would be >> pulling in the same direction for the same reasons. And I did in the beginning uh when when the law was first passed, when the Learns Act was first passed, I talked to some lawyers around the state. But the problem at the time was it was hard to predict the impact. you know, back then to file a lawsuit when when it was sort of rolled out slowly, you would have needed expert testimony maybe from the people in Arizona or people in other states who have been through this and it would have been a much more complicated case. Now that anybody can see what the impact has been and probably will be, uh, it's it's
065a little easier case and you probably don't need expert witnesses to show that, but I haven't circled back engage the interest of any other districts around the state. >> Okay. Well, thank you, Miss Eller. >> The chair will entertain a motion for adjournment. >> It's been moved and second that we adjourn. Does anybody need to be excused before we go into our agenda and board work session leading? Does anybody need a a break? You guys want to go ahead and keep it moving? All right. >> Oh, okay. >> Go ahead. >> All right. We'll take a short break. You need some help? Okay, we like to welcome you back to the LRSD agenda meeting/board work session and we will go ahead and get started with our board training and development. [clears throat] entity that uh
066is critical as we work learn to work together. Then we're going to do a little quiz bowl for review. That's why the bells are on the table. A little competitive spirit here which also helps undergird our team building. And then I want to talk about dialogue and active uh listening. Let's just say active listening. I don't know how they got cropped off. Uh dialogue and active listening. And then if we have time, I don't think we'll have time for the teamwork puzzle, but I can show you how it works so you can do it at your leisure. Let me talk um briefly about a couple of things in our debrief at the end of the last meeting because I think most of them are covered. um most of them are covered in the quiz bowl
067review around uh duties and responsibilities. Um guidelines um I'm going to do a little bit around tying the true colors into how you function as a board. Uh we have a case study that's going to help us with the role playinging notion. And then there are two items that you talked about common expectations around what we want for next year and the theme for the year. those issues would be uh with AJ and the council of great city schools should you decide to take a longer term um project along with them. That's not something that I could try to squeeze into two hours. Let me say the one that we did not um get a pass on was um avoiding the special meeting for longer time period trying to have this training separate. we were
068not able to do that um because you got to handle your business and when there's a lawsuit, you got to deal with it. And so um that was the one that we could not uh change from the last time. But I think we've covered some of those issues you had concerns about. If you remember your true color, raise your hand. Everybody remembers their true colors. And you know what? Well, Miss Burgess, I have to tell you, now that we are down uh a couple of members, I actually don't have to make you be a part of the quiz bowl, but you're welcome to be in the quiz bowl if you'd like. If if member Nicholls doesn't come back, though, you're back on the hook again. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, I think he's I think he
069intends to be in the room. All right, move to your four corners. Blue, gold, orange, green. Just for a quick debrief, just like the chart up there, blue is at my left. Gold is at my right. Orange is back here. And green is back here. >> Gold is over there. Green is here. >> You had to have a primary. She wore her color on her sleeve. >> He was by himself. >> And now you're by yourself. I'll be over there to talk with you in a minute. Here's a question you're going to discuss. Since the last time that we met, what behaviors did you notice that relate to the true colors among yourselves as board members? Now, if you have a minute, I'm only going to give you five minutes. If you have a minute,
070you can also talk about how you notice true colors at home with your spouse, anything like that. But with among your board members, what behaviors rang true for you in the true colors dealing with your board members? You have five minutes. Speech. Speech. Speech. Happy. You guys take it to customer service. briefly from four corners. What did you find out? What what what ahas did you have dealing with board members and knowing their colors? Very good. Anything else over here? I I thought it was pretty analytical. >> Okay. All right. >> It shows. It shows. All right. So, take a look at this list for the generations in the workplace. Traditionalist, baby boomers. This is the first time, by the way, that there are five generations in the workplace in some time. Traditionalist, baby boomers,
071generation X, millennials, Gen Z. Take a look at the years and find out where you fit and then find someone that's the same group as you. >> You may be by yourself. >> I'm like classify myself as millennial. I like children. I'm seen and >> so we're gonna pretend we're >> ability but I grew up with And I'm just pretend way I feel I'm very social All right. >> The baby boomers are still working. >> You only read your You only read your portion. No, I didn't read. I just didn't go >> read And best practice. All right. Report out. >> Millennials. >> Is it Is it pretty good telling? We're right on the line of Gen Xennial and so there's a mix and match. >> Hang hang on a second so everybody can hear.
072>> You can stay where you are. We're hearing from the millennials what they think of the infographic. >> We're right on the technically I'm 1980 so we're like but there are qualities of both >> gen and millennials. >> Yeah. So like think Okay. >> No, no facial hair. [laughter] >> Anything else? Millennial Gen X. Zen Gen. >> Um, we both still like a phone call. I feel like um but I'm also really good. Yeah, I do a lot of text in my life. But um >> if anybody have children that are um millennials and Gen Z Yeah. They don't do a whole lot of phone calling, do they? >> Oh, it's all texting. >> It's all texting. That That's the generation >> interpersonal skills. >> Well, I wasn't going to say they lack interpersonal skills,
073but they they love texting. They love texting. You can see you can see different generation. Let me hear from the baby boomers. Did your description ring true? >> You believe in phone calls more, but you're kind of forced into it. >> [laughter] >> Mhm. And and millennials are millennials are over here like, "Oh my god, stop by without calling first." >> I mean, especially postco. >> All right. Anything else? Mhm. But you raised an important point though. A generation ago, se a few generations ago, this notion of staying with a company and getting your gold pen and and your lapel pin because you've been with that same organization is just a thing of the past. And uh my my uh son and daughter are millennial Gen Z and that kind of loyalty does not exist
074among their peers. They quite often uh go to the highest bidder and they say I'm going to stay here this amount of time and then I'm going to be shopping around and looking again to see if there's something else that I want to do. But they're also very conscientious about who they'll work for. Like my son's an engineer and he's like I'm not going to work for a company that produces weapons of mass destruction. In my day and age, the first offer you got, you took it. Out of college, you you want a job. And they're just very they have very different standards. And that loyalty for an organization. Glad you raised that because I think that's important for um the school district as well to understand you got different generations at work. So, you
075got to do different things to try to hold on to them and motivate them. HR knows that that's always going to be a challenge. They would or start their own business. Entrepreneurs. I remember my son said like, "Well, yeah, they offer me a job. He's working way up here in the cold and they offer him a job down here." And he says, "Is the salary negotiable?" I would never have said that. I would have said, "Thank you very much. I'll take the job." And they're just very It's a very different generation. You have to respect that. And and you have to admire it too as well immediately. Yeah. >> Very different company people. All right. Go ahead. from our age. Corporations saying longm a little bit. Absolutely. Absolutely. and a huge part around social agendas
076and what does a company stand for or not stand up for. Very important. All right, let's hear from this group. What were you? Which category were you? >> Gen X. Let's hear from the Gen X. Did it ring true? What What are you made up of? What do you do? Okay. So that's a very important point. They are not hard drawn lines between generations and depending on how you were raised, if you're raised by baby boomers, you take on a lot of those values and concerns as well. Okay, move back to your seats. While you're coming back to your seats, tell me as a board, as board members, how do you show respect for a generation that is not your own? How do you get along with, show respect for, accommodate generations that are not
077your own? I >> always try to understand people's preferred way of communication. Um, I don't I am not a stellar emailer in all aspects of my life. You know, that is if you need to catch me quickly, that is definitely not the way to go. And that's maybe my more like leaning Gen X side. Um, but I try to understand how people like speaking >> important. >> Go ahead. >> How do you use this knowledge to better interact with show respect for engage with board members who are a different generation than yours? It's a so it's a so what question? Um well it helps to understand um what my colleague would prefer as a form of communication but also um understanding you know what was it the views you know like respecting someone's view and
078how they arrived there and their generation so I think that will help that will be very helpful >> very helpful What is a supervisor in the work setting? A principal, poor principal, looks out at his faculty meeting and he's got five different generations sitting there looking back at him. What do you think that does for a supervisor? >> Well, for me, I I do have that in my department. And so, I I really try to build those relationships in an effort to make sure that they are seen, heard, and valued. Um because it's important because all of our views are always different pretty much, but everyone brings something to the table. >> That's absolutely correct. You do have to respect generation after generation because I learn from a generation and of course we all have
079different backgrounds. The way I went to school, they don't go to school like that anymore. The way I was taught, they don't teach like that anymore. And then if I tell people I used to get spanked, they wouldn't believe it in elementary. But they're like, "You used to get spanked?" like yes I did. But so it just depends on you have to just love them all. And to me it's very informative. I love new generations because I'm learning stuff but then sometimes they can do some things and I'm be like where that come from you know but other than that I love new generations. I love it. >> [clears throat] >> I think about these things is trying to hold them loosely because you know the individual in front of you like you say you
080know they may be a blend of lots of things >> their family influence their their culture or where they grew up in the country >> and so I want to be be careful and be just I want to be really curious and and try to give people a good listen to you know so that I can try to understand where they're coming from and not make be aware that they may have different influences than I do, but I don't want to make any assumptions about that. >> So that's a critical point being very open and accommodating and accepting that people come from different backgrounds, different generations, different personalities, different colors, different generations. We have to be open and accepting and accommodating for those differences as well. Go ahead. Go ahead. That's hard. I was gonna
081I was going to make a funny comment, but I won't. So, anybody else have a supervisor who's the previous generation? >> I had supervised people who were older than I was. It's hard to find common approaches when you come in with different ideas of how things might go. I mean, yeah, it's hard. I think it's hard on both ends until until you find, you know, where you have I think finding that that I don't know if I had a superpower, I would want it to be finding the thing that connects to people in the world, you know, and I think that is a really important thing to try to find. And sometimes it is hard, sometimes it can be really hard. Um, but I think if you can try, like you were saying, looking at
082the person and really understanding, but I think you have to find where your goals over overlap and align and and then really be able to focus on that piece and start from there and then kind of bloom and grow. That's where it feels like if I was that principal. If I'm a 35-y old principal and I have a 25-year-old teacher, I'm not I don't think I'm going to be as intimidated if I need to correct and guide and and talk have a difficult conversation. If I have a 50-year-old teacher >> and who's 15 years older than me and who's been doing this a long time, that's going to be feels like a more challenging conversation. challenging and certainly needs to be respectful, showing respect and in regard for where they come from and what they've
083been through. All right. So, uh we're going to come back a little bit later on to um talk more about how we can accommodate one another, but for now, I'd like to go to our quiz bowl. In front of you or in the middle of the table is a little bell there. We're going to play a quiz bowl game to review. I didn't I didn't send word ahead of time for you to study so you'd have all of these answers because I'm pretty sure you're going to recall most of them. See the bell right there? So, we're going to have two teams. I was going to have guys against the girls, but I I ran out of one of my guys. So, there'll be three on each team. Let's just split it here. Move around
084there. So, you're all grouped around your bell and the three of you grouped around your bell. I >> was gonna say >> Yeah. So that's why I have rules because I know that don't people love to ring the bell. Do not touch the bell until it is time. >> Don't touch the button. >> Competitive over here. >> Very competitive. And so sometimes you can be penalized if you don't follow the rules. So here are the rules. >> So here are the rules. These are going to be um uh questions that are posed. They're not written. Nope. You're going to have to listen. Actually, I'm going to read the question twice. You still do not ring the bell. You have to confer. [laughter] >> Huddle. >> I'm going to read the question twice. Think about Family
085Feud. You got to huddle. You got to confer. And when you're ready, then you ring the bell because you think you have the answer. One person thinking they know the answer can't just hit the bell. Got to confer. It's teamwork. Got to confer. And then you hit the bell. If you get it wrong, you're going to be our our scorekeeper. What would you like your team to be called over here? >> No. Turn the mic off. Turn the mics off. >> Okay. What do you What does this team want to be called? >> They have What do you want to be called? >> I'm going to give you team A and team B if you don't come up with something quick. Spring Green. >> Spring Green is this team. What's your team called? >> Ba
086Baby Boo Boos. >> True Blues and the Spring Greens. You got that? >> Madam Secretary, >> what are the rules? Repeat them for me, someone. Only then may you ring the bell. >> All right. Sometimes they will be multiple choice. Sometimes they will be true false. You have to listen because I'm going to read it twice. But there is no written question for you to look at. Which does not describe a low performing school board? Number one, less orderly. Number two, less time spent on student achievement. Or number three, not listening, I'm sorry, number three, listening respectfully and attentively to the person speaking. Which does not describe a low performing school board? One, less orderly. Two, less time spent on student achievement. Or three, listening respectfully and attentively to the person speaking. Did they huddle?
087>> All right. What's your answer? >> It's number three. >> Number three is correct. Give a point to the spring green. Did you come up with the same answer over here? >> Okay. [laughter] All right, next question. Next question. >> We are still on the topic which >> which does not describe a low performing school board. Number one, members advancing their own agenda. Number two, very good working relationships among the governance team. Or number three, fewer members relied on the superintendent for advice and input. Which of the three do not describe a low performing school board? One, members advancing their own agenda. Two, very good relationship among the governance team. Three, fewer members relying on the superintendent for advice and input. [bell] >> They rang first. Do you agree? >> Two is correct. Soon as
088I get it wrong, I'm going to give you two points. Don't worry. [laughter] >> And you're following. I want to I want to commend you for following direction because quite often when we play this game, um, boards have a hard time not ringing that bell on the first reading. >> All right, next question. Which of the following does not describe a low performing school board? Number one, members other than the chair taking excessive time talking during the meeting. Number two, less focus on policy items. Number three, spend time building on team building and learning more about each other, which see I had to read it twice. Go ahead. You thought you heard it twice. Did I hear it twice? Did I read it twice? Secretary, >> give me your answer. >> Number three is correct.
089No. One point. We'll allow you. >> You would have gotten two of you. >> I would have given you two points, but you rang the bell. You rang the bell too early. Let's do a true Let's do a true false. This one. >> This one. This one's going to be fast because it's a true it's a true >> I need a gavl order. >> Eager beavers. All right, here's a true false question. I'm going to read it twice before you can answer. Factors associated with effective school boards that impact student achievement include monitoring progress and taking corrective action. Factors of effective school boards that are associated with student achievement include monitoring progress and taking corrective action. True false. >> It is true. Were you gonna say true as well? >> All right. Another another true
090false effective school board effect bring it give let somebody else be the ringer bes beside director Jackson maybe she's a little slow on the ringer and don't hit it too hard I need any injuries there's no workers comp here for that all right another true false uh effective school board factors associated with student achievement include creating an awareness and urgency especially about any gap between the vision and outcome data. Creating awareness and urgency especially about any gap between the vision and outcome data. >> True or false? [laughter] >> You rang the bell. Okay, move it back. Move back to director Jackson. [laughter] >> Not too gingerly. It is. It is true. >> All right. Multiple choice. Again, got to listen to these. These get more complex when they're multiple choice. Uh, the synthesis on schoolboard
091research includes all of the following except blank. They understand the difference between governance and management and focus their work on policy. They create as individual members their own vision for the district. They carefully hire a superintendent, articulate clear expectations and delegate authority to him. Number one, understand the difference between governance and management and focus on their work on policy. Number two, create a compelling vision by individual schoolboard members. Number three, carefully hire superintendent, articulate clear expectations, and delegate the authority. >> I heard that one. I heard that. >> Two is correct. Two is correct. The synthesis around school board research says that uh effective school boards do not create their own individual visions for the board. There has to be a coherence a gathering around a single vision for the district and for the children.
092All right, here's another multiple choice uh synthesis around schoolboard research. I'm going to list four. or you're going to tell me which one um is correct. Define and refine policies, utilize data, develop a culture of collaboration, or all of the above. Effective school boards define and refine policies, utilize data to inform the policy and decision-making, develop a culture of collaboration among themselves and the superintendent, or four, all of the above. [bell] Number four. All of the above. >> Here's a Here's a Here's a true false. Here's a true false. Get ready. Here's a here's a true false. Yeah. Move the bill to someone else over there. [laughter] Synthesis around effective school board research says that uh these boards meaningfully engage the community in their work. Effective school boards meaningfully engage the community in their work.
093True or false? It is true. Let me do another true false. Let me do a [laughter] is a defective bell. Is it the bell that's defected? >> Practice. Test it. Here's another true false. Effective school boards minimize distractions and keep their focus on high quality instruction and student learning. Effective school boards minimize distractions and keep their focus on high quality instruction and student learning. >> It is true. Very good. What is our score? Because we got to move on. We're going to run out of time. >> 63. >> The spring green. Spring green. >> Spring green is the winner. Give them a hand. We're We're good sports here. >> It was It was the defective though. >> Move back to your areas. We're going to get to our case study, but in essentially, and thank
094you for participating. Essentially, I want to make sure you understand the more you work together as a board. You put in team building activities and some fun competition. If we had time, I'd make you do a puzzle competition. It's hilarious, but it also makes you hone in on here are some concrete things that help us work together better as a team. All right. Um, and this whole notion again of coherence that boards can have very different personalities. They could be reds, orange, gold, green. They could be Gen X or baby boomers or millennials. The coherence comes around this single vision that you're all passionate about that above all else, you want to do things that are good for children in this community to make a difference. And that's why you're committed to working together. Let's
095do the case study. So, I'm going to give you a handout. You're going to take it's a it's not long at all. It's like a page and a half, front and back. Um, it's it's a a case study that was done uh at the Harvard Business School. If you've ever been to U PELP or the project that they have going on uh for boards and superintendent, you've seen it before. I'm sorry. You've seen similar case studies and we're going to work through it. Now, a couple things before you start reading. Let me tell you a couple of things. I want you to read carefully. And if you have a copy that does not have the paragraphs numbered, number the paragraphs 1 through on the back page one through seven. I'm sorry, one through six paragraphs
096because as we discuss it, when we dissect it, you're going to need to be able to site where your answer comes from. So case study is not just what your gut tells you and what you recall. When we ask you for particular input, you need to be able to site where you see it in the actual case study. Uh pay particular attention to the board, the chair, the superintendent, and to particular board member who is uh highlighted. I will tell you this is not factual. Somebody's reading it already. They're overachiever green. What happens is this is fictional. I promise you this is not an actual school district. Um, and Harvard usually uh applies other organizations like you'd be studying a health care care organization and then applying some of the learning to your particular business.
097In this case, John Kim wrote this and it's about a school district, but it is totally fictional, but some things may sound familiar because this is what happens typically in school boards. So, you're going to read it carefully, be ready to answer questions, and cite where you see it in the case study. Okay, go. Yeah, you can write on it. I just have to take it back when you're done. These are all pink. So, we're going to talk about a couple different things. Um, first talk about what we know about certain characters. Talk about where they went wrong. Talk about what they could have done different particular questions that I ask. There's there's a tradition at Harvard, two traditions that I highly regard and respect and envy. One is those wonderful big boards that they
098have. They can scroll and write all over them. Then you swing one board up. I want those boards because that part I really cover. The other is called Call, which they they say originated at Harvard. some of their classes. But cold call means yeah, you don't get to volunteer. I'm just gonna put you on the spot. And call we've all suffered through this. We've been through the broad organization at Yale call as well. Call means instead of a question, I say, "So Anna got pause for a second." Gosh, what is it? And then the questions of Lots of cold calling and society. Okay, so cold call means I I pose your name first and you're on the spot. You got to answer whether you know it or not. Got to blow your way through it.
099Anyway, those two things I highly cover because I have suffered under the coal Socratic um more more at Yale, more at the program that comes through Yale. But anyway, we will use both methods to keep you on your toes. What do we know about the district? And when you tell me the answer, you need to tell me where you find it in study site paragraph as well. What do you know about the district that's in question? >> I didn't do a call. So that >> I'm happy to go. Yeah. So paragraph two um talks about diverse student body. >> I do want you to raise your hand though. um is a diverse student body. Threearters uh are free and reduced lunch, but also geographically spread out with those that are wealthier in the north and
100poverty in the southern part of the city. about the district. >> I was just um volunteer that they she won a seat on the school board. I'm assuming they have an elected school board. >> Paragraph one. >> That's what I was going to bring that up, but you asked what we knew and I don't know if they have zoned seats or if it is an open at large. So that I don't know that. >> All right. >> What do you know about member Garcia? She definitely has opinions about the district. All right. What else do we know, Director Jackson? What else do you know about pretty important nonprofit knows. What else do we have? >> Um, so she stepped down recently and is now on the board there, so she's got more time on her
101hands as well. Um, >> oh, the timing issue is important. >> Yeah, >> but she also worked with a thousand students. Oh, this is all section one. Sorry. Um, and but the program that she serves is a thousand students. I'm sure she feels like she has her finger on the pulse of student needs as well. What do we know about Wonderful. Okay. So, we're gonna get to that. We're gonna get to what she definitely seems to be out of her lane according to paragraph. What else do we know about mercy? >> I'm sorry. Director, >> you can call me. Um, I was going to say, you know, there were a couple people though. I think that a couple of the people were more supportive of her just I get to the board. We're only on
102Garcia now. >> Well, no. Well, of Garcia because you were saying that >> Did you just say that that the board was um >> she seemed to be not well received, >> right? But I think a couple people were supportive of >> We're going to get to them in a minute, but >> out on an island by herself, isn't she? >> She has some support. >> Nobody Nobody else speaks up. >> Correct. >> How about the board? >> Okay. Go ahead. Trying to figure out what her role is. Go ahead. Just one other question I have about her is how she interacted with her own board when she was an executive director and how that might correlate to her expectations now of being on a board and having a superintendent which is a a different
103I mean a nonprofit executive director and board has some correlation to a school board an elected school board and a superintendent but I don't think that it's a one to one and so she might have some history and experience that's all paragraph one >> and it doesn't ever really necessarily say that her program was successful. It cites some data about it, but it says she provided summer, you know, so we don't I don't I don't think we know that necessarily that she was a successful had a success. Well, it said she successfully grew the program. >> She grew the program. >> So, we don't know the outcomes. >> That's a measure of success. She grew the program. >> So, I I think one other thing that's important is it says in paragraph one, she easily
104won an open seat. So if you win it by a large margin, you may feel like you have some sort of um you've been empowered, right, by Yeah. you have a mandate, right, um from that zone to make change, right, when you easily. >> Yeah. >> Very She wants to microman. All right. At least that's what the data tells us. All right. What do we know about we know? So he attempts he or What did it say? >> It never said we we assume some people, it's funny, some boards immediately start saying he because they assume it was a man. Some say she it doesn't say actually but the board chair >> it's possible attempt to correct. What else do you know about? >> You know, I I thought the board chair really did try
105to provide some strong leadership there about providing an avenue for the board member to plug in, saying, "We would love to hear your ideas. Um, but our job is not to do the hiring. Our job is this." And I thought that was a really strong redirect of that energy into a specific a specific task that the that Garcia could be be part of while saying but this is your lane. >> I thought it was a strong redirect. >> Strong redirect. >> Anything else you know about the chair? >> Successful redirect for the for the meeting. Anything else for the chair? Let's move to the superintendent. What do you know about superintendent? One thing I noted in paragraph three was that at the last board meeting, the superintendent shared a list of principal retirements and openings.
106I do think that as the superintendent did that without providing some more guidance on the process that it maybe opened the door for people to invite themselves into the process in a less than constructive way. Um I think I don't know I just it comes back to some of the work we've recently done. I feel like where we had um some guidance from we we all went through the principal hiring process here and the principal pool process here. Um and I thought that was really helpful from Dr. Wright. So um I do think that was an opportunity there that the the superintendent could have taken to help guide all board members to ensure they're on the same place on the role. So, no guidance >> and also if it was something that came out before
107the meeting and they were having a problem with it, I think they could have did oneonone with the superintendent. >> So, I'm going to get to that in a minute. What could have been done differently? But it appears it appears he didn't do any briefing with his pri as well. The sigh of relief that's audible send a definite message. Say that again. The sigh of relief. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the best. the room if it's audible an audible sigh of relief kind of next to I had a a superintendent who'd be sitting there and just snap his pencil into was intentional you know it's inappropriate you know body language stuff like that don't don't do that I coach a lot of superintendent the audible sigh of relief I'm glad you mentioned that is not appropriate
108respectful anything else about superend All right. And then how about something? Sight me. Sight me. And for member Garcia, what does the body language convey to her both from other board members and from the audience? Big signal. In some instances, she took it If I'm playing to the audience, they don't get to vote, by the way, but if I'm playing to the audience, certainly they're giving me the thumbs up. I should just plow ahead. That's what she actually thought. She was getting good response. So, she thought she plow ahead. >> Go ahead. I was just going to add too that um one of the notes I made was just that the audience watching the board maybe didn't understand the role of the board and so that maybe the if you're asking about what are our
109thoughts on the board maybe they had not really helped their constituents understand their role on the board something very important. We got a brand new board member and she thinks she is within her required duties and responsibilities and the audience some from her community think the same thing as well. Good job. We like it. You're standing up first. You're speaking out. There's a misunderstanding somewhere which brings us to the next question in our debrief. That brings us to the next opportunity and responsibility to educate the community to educate constituents around what the role of the board is versus what the role The board and the CEO. The board holds them accountable for the outcomes. I want you to hire Aiter that could have been done differently. We don't know from this case study. I can't
110site you in the But it appears that both the community and board member Garcia are misinformed. So what we could have done differently concerning any of these entities is what? Give me something like what could have been done differently. What is that? Good. That's a very important point. Very important. Very important. So to your own constituents as well as to the community as a whole to understand the role of the board. Governance versus operation. Governance versus management. The what the how. Very important to be able to convey. So, so a personel matter in most cases is probably going to be an executive session. I think she would just make an issue and I don't ever recommend that board just off the cuff. Either preemptively could have been dealt with I think in the one-on-one meetings
111and if it got to be as much as she thought and other board members were concerned about it. What else could they do? That's beautiful. I want to think superend. must be like a school board association, you know, having a so you want for school board uh training to help people under I know we have sample policies from the school boards association and others but you know having I know as nonpartisan elected officials sometimes I think we miss out on some of that guidance that political parties provide like at the state level on how to and how to do your finance reports and all the things. >> So you want to be a board member, >> right? Like so you want to be like here's a that's not one of the >> right. So you
112want to run and like here's what that actually means and not it's not that you get >> there will be that the communication at the district level that comes out saying here's everything that's required here's the role of school board so you want to run here are the facts that you need to be aware of school associations do in some districts run something like a leadership program where they're saying here's what the school system is all about here's how it runs here's the inner workings of it and as you induct community members they can advates for you when you're trying to run various agendas in the community because they know the inner workings and they understand that also produces potential future board members who understand governance versus operations. >> Can can I ask a question?
113Do [clears throat] do you know of any precedent of school boards that before the public comment section begins that in addition to what President Johnson reads that there is also perhaps a small paragraph stating and by the way here is the role of the board. Here is the role of of the the administration and the superintendent. Please understand before you give your public comments that this is the the protocol and this is what Have we has it has there been a precedent for >> so we had a board chair who was excellent who always redirected when necessary to say the role of the board is the role of the board is when it came up but putting it in the preamble or the the talking point before the meeting is probably >> I just wonder
114if that would be helpful because we saw that today in public comment where um you know without specifically talking about certain speakers you know there were comments about you know we'd like the board to do this when it really wasn't in our lane. And so I wonder if it would be helpful as part of that education for us to add something. I don't know if Mr. Kazay is still here, but that maybe he could work on drafting >> to to do something like that. >> I like that. Yeah. Well, and then >> my devil's advocate hat I'm going to wear in this case, and I'm glad you brought that up. >> You were still on. Sorry. >> Yeah. Um, so in the comments, one of the um, one of the young ladies, I think, or
115one of the parents any e anyway made a comment. I would like to can we just talk to the board outside of and my devil's advocate had after sitting here and you know we've listened several meetings when a um when they feel like we've hit the wall and then we keep turning you back to the wall that you feel like it's just a dead end. So, as a person that's out in the community, they feel like, "What do I do?" Because you you keep sending me there and I'm not finding the answers. >> So, what what is the answer at that point? Because if I'm sending you where you don't feel like you're getting anything and then my job is not to other than just to keep sending you back there. >> I'll let you
116guys deal with the specifics, but let me just say one thing. There has to be an understanding. You can't have a board meeting outside of the public eye. Correct. Sunshine violation. So if there are even two or three of you together, you have to make it open. The media or anybody else who wants to come in here said there can't be a secret board meeting with a group legally with an individual board member or with the superintendent and his staff. They're asking for that kind of meeting. But you can't have a quiet private school meeting with parents. It's not How do you tell? >> How do you tell? >> So, you know what? Oh, you know what? So, if there were, we're going to be longer than your public speaker in a minute now. But
117if you're able to say, you know, don't mention individuals. The board's role is here, not here. And by the way, we can't meet with individual board members in groups because of the sunshine law because of requirements for public meeting. Maybe that's something that could be help. If you say it enough, people start to hear it and it starts to reverberate in the community. >> Yeah. Individually. Individually. Or if you have more than one board member, then it's open to the public. Right. [snorts] Right. I thought of another place for timing as well too. But if it's not the preamble public speakers once public speakers are done and you're starting your next meeting as you've already said you can't comment during this time at the start of the next meeting you might say just for the
118good of the public let mention these three things as we our next meeting. I want to mention these three things kind of reinforce it and maybe they hear it. Go ahead. I train roles don't change. I train totally volunteer. I've trained minimal stipen boards. I've trained first year teacher salary boards. Um the responsibilities don't change usually. Anything else? Because I got to give you a break so we can start wrapping things up. Anything else that could have been done different? What could have done differently? would it be the board responsibility to do the onboarding where Garcia could have known what she was doing was inappropend I think that's a staffing role. Yeah. >> But I also think just for this particular issue that the board chair should have seen that coming. Honestly, when you send
119out this list of openings and retirements or like basically open spots and say, "Hey, here's all here all the principles. We have to hire that." Without sending that out along with context, you're following up with some context. That's opening the door, I feel like, to people jumping in. preventative >> right on the front. She'll stop there. That would have been at least satisfied >> even just ask the question. I think that's something I think we all get an opportunity to do is come here and ask questions. And you know that's she could have turned that last part into a question instead of even in public and volunteering to set up a different question. You don't know. >> I feel like in paragraph six she got really defensive. It sounds like her her reaction was very
120defensive to impair >> because she was offended. >> Why? Wait, why was why didn't he want my help? Like, I'm here. I bring all this to the table. >> Yeah. >> I Because I think from what was said in her background, I think she was well intentioned. I think she had good intentions. She needs to help. She wants to do what's right. She just didn't know. Could have asked questions, could have had a one-on-one, could have had better onboarding experience. But then you got to defend your honor and say I I have to tell you this and I'm going to give you a break for like six minutes. Um when I do this training and staff are present I I also say although you're not up here on the list you don't show up in
121the in the case study staff is a part of this as well because somebody is responsible for that turnover and supervising and correcting the principal ship there it's not just a board matter and superintendent matter somebody else should give you a seven minute break and then we'll come back and wrap it Seven minutes. Set the timer. Welcome back. Um we are going to go ahead and continue our education. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. So, I want to um just cover a couple of other very brief topics uh and then hand you back over to the chair for the remainder of your agenda. I want you to say a little bit about >> Okay. So Collins in his book around in his work around good to grade and advancing organizations and uh been a lot of
122work done at the University of Michigan as well around this whole notion of discussion versus uh dialogue versus discussion versus decision making and debate. And what we tend to skip over is the discussion part uh where you I'm sorry is the dialogue part where there's no keeping of notes. There's no debate involved. It's simply the dialogue part. We easily skip over that and go straight to discussion, debate and decision- making. The whole notion of dialogue is listening without any preconceived notions and concentrating on the listening. So if you notice on that particular um handout in your notes, let's do a little coral reading. We haven't done that tonight. So if we're going to engage in dialogue before moving into discussion and decision making, there should be a shared understanding of concepts prior to discussion to
123build consensus. And so we're going to do what? >> Begin by slowing down. is in your packet. >> We're into coral reading. We're going to do what? >> Slowing down. >> And what does that entail? >> Pause and speaking. Shifting momentum >> and >> give others time to their thoughts. >> All right. So, begin by slowing down is important when it comes to dialogue. Secondly, dialogue requires that we do what? emotions. >> And how do you do that? >> Try to rely on the facts more than feelings. >> That's hard to do sometimes to to rely on facts more than feeling. What does the data say? What not? What your gut says, not how you feel about it. We're also going to control our emotions by what? >> Convey respect, understanding for opposing opinions. >>
124And then we're thirdly going to focus on actively listening. This is the part that's hardest for human beings. Not just school boards, but human beings. If you're ever in a in a discussion, supposedly a dialogue with a partner, a spouse, a friend, a child, it's very hard to practice active listening because what that first bullet say? >> Don't just plan what you will say next. >> That's hard for me when I'm into a dialogue with my husband. Oh, I'm planning what I'm going to say next. That is not active listening and it's not fair to the partner, the spouse, the child, whoever it is that you are in a discussion with in dialogue with. You want to practice active listening. Don't just plan what you will say next. And also >> not very lazy no
125one has said. >> That's important as well. And then fourthly, when we're talking about dialogue, we are going to monitor your reactions >> by be aware of facial expressions. >> That happened in the case study, didn't it? >> And convey openness in your body language. >> So, if I'm if you're talking to me and I'm like this, what does that convey? >> I don't want to hear it. >> I'm not I don't want to hear it. I'm not listening. If I'm nodding and acknowledging, that's helpful. If I'm scowlling and shaking my head, I've already prejudged what you were trying to say to me. I've already made my determination. What were we going to say, director? >> So, it is much easier to me to do these things on the floor >> when we're sitting in
126the round >> than when we're sitting up there and we're sitting this way. >> We see each other. >> So, what what are your thoughts? What have you seen that to to try to compensate for that kind of configuration? >> So I don't know that anyone has solved it. I've seen the curve being more uh severe than a dis facing the audience because really the board is having a discussion with each other and I've seen more work session. So that so that is a business meeting that doesn't require a whole lot of dialogue. The work session is where there's lots of dialogue and then discussion and then debate. If it gets into heated debate, it's usually at the disk. But work sessions are are the way around that and and critical, I believe, for boards
127to work and function efficiently and effectively. Quite honestly, work session the way to go. >> We had whole classes on that. >> Can I ask you a question? >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. You say you had whole classes. This entire class is on sitting and what facilitates communication and effective dialogue rather I mean sitting in rows is like the >> it doesn't work. Yeah. >> The way to get people to connect and sitting in like multiple rounds is not good but like basically it was like make a big >> if the group is small enough you need a U or you need a square. I I have gone to do that's why that's why I show up early when I'm doing board training. I've shown up and they had folks sitting auditorium style with, you
128know, people looking at the back of each other's heads while I was going to be up front. That is that does not encourage certainly dialogue. >> No, my question was we had one of these earlier this evening and you were a witness to it. Um, I' I'd be interested to get your critique of how did we do at this during the discussion about the lawsuit and the learns act since you were here as somebody that's an outsider. I'd be interested to hear your critique of us. >> So, so I I've watched your board meetings too um on on video because I can take a look at them. I think this board functions well around discussion and dialogue for the most part. A couple times I thought maybe you were kind of going below the line
129and then I realized, oh my gosh, that is policy. It was something around it may have been around um u principal selection. It was a policy. So it wasn't below the line after all. I think you functioned well in the business setting when I watch online in the business setting. I think you functioned well. Defer to the chair, get the chair not overtalking each other, which I've seen so many boards do. Defer to the chair, the chair recognizes and then you speak. I think you've done a brilliant job at that like an experienced board that's worked together for a long time. I do where I think you can probably when I when I was here for the work session it it's not fair um director Kpinsky to compare this because it's a legal matter that's
130touchy and so it requires some expertise but I think even in the work setting to keep order there does have to be some reference to the chair for speaking order that's the only thing that I would have done differently a couple of times somebody may have overtalked someone defer to the chair so there's order even in the work session but the discussion was good because you're in a really tight situation I don't envy others are in similar situations I don't envy that I think I think it it has to always though run through the chair for order so that you don't over talk one another but I thought your discussion the questions that were posed people trying to summarize what I'm hearing is chair says so it sounds like we have three different options and
131And um a director said, I always want to say Kapinsky and I'm putting an N in your name. It's Kpitsky. K. And director Kitzky said, well, to that point here, here here really where we stand now. I think I'm hearing consensus, but I want you to always remember even in the work session setting, let the chair keep order so that people aren't speaking over each other. It was harmless. It wasn't just you, Anna. I heard Anna say I I I do I I I spoke without getting the chair's attention. It's okay. More experienced board members always get the chair's attention. I noticed but your discussion and the cander and the comfort with which you engage and interact with each other is helpful. I wouldn't say there's too much air time for you because you had
132more expertise on it with your your legal background. So I thought that was useful as well. I thought it was a good work session. Let's say it was a topic that was not so touchy. Legal matters work session with your board attorneys and and such are never going to be a typical work session because they are on on a touchy sensitive issue usually. Even in executive session, you have that same order, but those are sensitive issues that you can't always judge. I thought you did well and I thought you function like a board that's worked together longer than you have, quite frankly. All right. So, we're going to skip the little activity where you have to say something to someone and they actively listen to you and and um repeat what you have shared with
133them. We will forego that because it's getting late. And one of the things that you had on our um list of pros and cons or pluses and deltas last time was we ought to have these separate so that you're not staying so late. And I realize you have other items on your agenda. So, I'll let that go. I'm just going to describe a puzzle competition. If you haven't done it before for adults to have and they don't need to be, please don't do a thousand piece puzzle. 100piece puzzle, that's the limit. A 100 piece puzzle and two different teams rushing to see who can get it put together first is a great team building activity because you start to discern. There's some things that require your agreement around if you're going to win. So that
134critical mass, that consensus, uh that that cohesion takes place because you want to win. And so if you're doing a puzzle competition, um can everybody be speaking at the same time and everybody moving and jabbing and can everybody carry on at the same time and be the winner? Probably not. What what what do you suppose is required in a puzzle competition? If you want to win, if your if your real goal is to win, get your puzzle put together before the other p other group gets their puzzle put together. What does it require? >> Cooperation. What else? >> Teamwork, >> collaboration, listening, teamwork, >> dialogue, division of roles, some somebody do the somebody. Yeah. Try this with your family. Sometimes it's a it's a great team building activity. You either kill each other or you
135get it right. You get it right. So all of these notions of team building for puzzle, it really does work when you talk about team building toward any goal. Very similar. Um and we won't go through that. >> Do we get to ring a bell at the end of the puzzle? >> There's no bell. There's no bell. You know what? I meant to take those bells off the table. [laughter] I forgot. I neglected to take the bells off the table. Anyway, wrapping it up. Uh your next steps, madame chair, is your discussion around uh whether or not you're going to have um uh the council of great city schools give you a more extended support system. A large part of what not a large part, but part of what they do is board self- evaluation,
136which I think is critical. On a quarterly basis, the board has to evaluate and assess how well they are conforming to what they've agreed said they're going to do. That is uh a discussion that you have to have around your reflections, madam chair, and I thank you for your time. I am out of your way. >> Well, thank you, Dr. Jenkins. Great. >> Before you go, what do you think is the most the best thing we would get out of an extended agreement with them? >> So, when you talked about last time we were together, one of your reflections was, oh, we would love to have a theme. Mhm. >> Something makes the dream makes the No, >> teamwork makes the dream work, I think, or something. >> I I can't do that in the
137smaller session. But the notion that you're going to get a focus and a direction, a long range plan or a direction for the board, >> um that's something that you'd have to do more than just my little two-hour sessions. Absolutely. And they um remember the council really pushes that um student outcomes driven board governance. you really keep a focus on what you say is a number one reason that you came on the board surround student outcomes. And so I'll leave that to the board for discussion on another day. But that's one that that area this this notion of a theme or we're going to here's here's going to be our charge for the year and here's how we're going to hold ourselves accountable for it and regular evaluation self-evaluations of the board. That's something you
138can get from the board, but I'll let um Rey and others give you that feedback. I I highly recommend it. I've seen it work effectively. Uh one board um one superintendent I'm working with out west in um Oklahoma was doing their quarterly assessments. I was watching them online. They were doing their quarterly board self assessment and uh it's very telling. It helps it helps them hold each other accountable for what they said they were going to do. >> So the next step would be to engage in a two-year plan. >> Yeah. With the Council of Great City Schools. But that's your decision. I don't I'm not their pitch person. And that's that's Ray's job. >> We'll have that discussion. We'll put it on the agenda and um >> yeah, you and the superintendent come to
139your conclusions there. I will tell you, it's been a pleasure working with you and I I've seen um various uh districts. This board has such tremendous potential. I think you're doing a good job. Like I say, you you seem to be functioning like a group that's worked together longer than you have. And so, commendations to you and thank you again for doing what's good for the children here in Little Rock. Well, >> thank you. >> Out of your way. >> All right. Thank you. Have a safe trip. >> Okay. We're going to move on to 3.1 board meeting dates for 2026 27. Is that Miss Burgess? Is that you? >> Okay. Good evening board again. So, we have a list of draft board meeting dates beginning uh in July. It still falls um for the
140second and fourth Thursdays. And if you just want to take a look and see if there are any questions or any conflicts, potential conflicts, we actually took it all the way to June so we could um kind of get a better, of course, we don't have, you know, graduation, all those things kind of scheduled yet, but just wanted to start the conversation about the uh draft board meeting dates. Are there any questions. >> All right. Thank you. Yeah, that was easy. >> All right. 3.2 together. Would that be you, doctor? >> Um, I can be a doctor if you want me to be. [laughter] I didn't know if Miss Burgess, did you have anything from Dr. Wright first on the the visioning together task or do you want me to just speak to >> Yes,
141just go ahead and give your overview to what we >> Okay, about perfect. So, um so I'll be brief. Um I I wanted all the board to kind of have an update on what we're doing with the task force that you all empowered us with two weeks ago and also for those that are watching online um that would like to be a part of it for them to know what the objectives of it are and what we are looking for in five additional members of the task force. Um, so the the specific goal of this task force is to really look at resource optimization. And what I mean by that is we have seen our numbers decline from 22,000 down to 19,000. Um, and so unfortunately we have to make some tough decisions um, for
142the future and the financial viability of the district as we talk about $15 million cuts. Um so the task force is really going to look at several different things but everything from demographic shifts across um the city to future demographic shifts to where should schools be located. What are the ideal sizes of schools for cost efficiency purposes um and eventually develop a recommendation. Our plan at this point Mr. Bailey and I have met a few times um is that the summer is really going to be information and data gathering. Uh we are not coming with a recommendation initially. Um, instead it will be a presentation about why we are where we are. Um, what are the the efficacies that we could potentially find and then go into the community with board meetings in each zone?
143Um, and open it up to the community to really hear from them based on the information presented. What are they looking for in prek environments, in kindergarten environments, in middle school and high school environments to understand where is that overlap and and how can we balance efficiency with reinvisioning what schools can be, right? Instead of this being about school consolidation, if we have to go that route, it becomes about parents and students and teachers coming together to say this is what we want in our schools. Um so that we can make it a positive dialogue instead. um we'll then reconvene and take those and there will be lots of surveys around that. We'll then form recommendations and then in the spring come back to the community again with those recommendations to say okay based on
144your feedback here's what we um have kind of decided on here are some recommendations and then go through another litany before we would come back to the board with formal recommendations. Um the five members we're looking for um number one we're looking for diversity and I don't mean just diversity the way we normally think about it but different parts of the city as well. Um those if they have a strong background and either data analytics or financial would be obviously helpful as we go through this analysis. Um, and then last but not least, uh, we want to make sure that these are folks that care about the community or vested in the community, whether they have kids or they grew up in the school district, and that there will be a time commitment of probably
1456 to 12 months um, of continuous meeting and dialogue and really trying to work through what is in the best interest of the school district. So, for anybody that is interested in uh, in potentially serving, there was an email uh, and a text message that already went out thanks to Pam. Um, and the document itself is on the website, so people can uh look at that and if they are interested, they'll send me an email. Um, and then Mr. Bailey and I will go through those and try to formulate a good group of seven um that has those strengths but also the diversity that we're seeking to make sure that that we're representative in our decision-m process. >> Does anybody have any questions? >> Director Adams, >> just a just a comment. Um, so well,
146one question is So is this a similar will this be a similar process with the other task force too >> similar a little bit I think we are doing um Dr. Wright and I have met and we're going to approach our committee member task force uh members a little differently and we're still in discussion about that. Okay. But but Director Adams to to one point I will add um Dr. Wright and I have had a conversation about um somehow um and we may have to do it in a public setting. Director Jackson would be but um the four of us along with um uh Kendra Puit sitting down and figuring out where is the overlap because it may be that the town halls that we're talking about hosting are going to tie into a lot
147of the same uh questions. Um, and so I think there's going to be um, some ability for us to consolidate those efforts because I think it all goes together quite honestly, right? The financial piece, the academic piece, right? The why are we losing students, how do we get them back, looking at athletic, it's all one common ground. Um, and so I think all of those conversations together will help formulate a lot of the recommendations across the board. Yeah, >> if that's helpful. >> Thank you. Just one other comment just I'll just throw this out just in case it's useful. It may not be, but uh in my work sometimes we talk about having goal-directed conversations rather than procedured conversations where we ask people what's really important to them in the situation that they're in and
148what their worries are, what their hopes, their concerns are. And as opposed to saying, you know, if things go badly, do you want us to in in the medical world, if things go badly, do you want us to put a tube down your throat to breathe for you? Or or or you know, or do chest compressions. Instead, we talk about what's what are your worries and your goals and your fears and your hopes. Then we try to match up [clears throat] what your hopes and your dreams and your worries are with what we can offer you and try to find where those intersect. Mhm. >> And it seems like what you all are willing to do that information gathering is very similar to that is you're trying to find out what people's hopes and dreams
149and concerns are with and not jumping into the how we're going to fix them yet. First we need to understand where people are coming from. So just throw that out in case that language is ever helpful. >> So so that yeah that's exactly the approach that we're taking. That's why the two sets of meetings in the community um we do not want to come with a recommendation initially. I think it's really important for us to hear from the community and specifically questions and I'll just throw these out. When you think about prek, do do parents prefer to have multiple prek centers across the city versus having preks at every elementary that feeds into an elementary environment? So, these are all questions that would come up during these focus groups. and and and I'm would also
150encourage all of us um as we get close to those that we are very active in the schools to make sure as many parents that can be there. I envision us having surveys after each part of the discussion with survey links that people will be able to scan and then those would also go out to folks that are watching on Zoom. So hopefully we'll have the ability to to broadcast these as well. I I think the more people we have involved in this process, the more buyin we can get. This is a communitywide discussion of what we want our school district to look like and not about us just having to consolidate some schools is the way I think we have to frame it. >> Director, >> I am bringing this up only because that
151example you just shared is one that has a lot of policy implications. Um the regulation for early childhood is substantially different from that of K12. And there are a lot of challenges with trying to put an early childhood environment and we can make we make it work but there are a lot of challenges to putting early childhood in questions. I want to make sure that as we in a K5 or an elementary school setting. So I guess I just want to make sure that as we think about the questions we maybe bring them back here and to the leadership and staff and teams before we go ask people about things that are not easily um operational. I think that's one of the That's a hope and dream, but it's also a management challenge, you know,
152and a and a space challenge and all the other things. So, I just want to make sure that we can leverage our shared experience and knowledge in this room and within the district leadership team and others as we think about how and where we ask those questions >> and and that just so you know, the plan is actually to do exactly that. Um, so so for example, we've met with Dr. exploring it. We would be engaging Mscudi. We would be engaging lots of people during so as we have these task force meetings and we talk through these components. We're also going to have the specialists in the room to say, "Hey, here are the parameters around that. Here's what is realistic. Here's what's not." So, as we formulate those questions, we can have a realistic
153starting point versus just saying, "Hey, I know this is what people may want, but we at least have some context around that as well." So, that's the plan as well. So, um, Director Jackson, I know it's a task force. Do you have a name of your task force? >> We're we were more focused on the, um, programs that the district would offer, some of the unique programming that we could um that the district could offer. And we were kind of exploring that across the region, across the country, some unique programming. And so we want to bring people in that have some ideas about that and then start at that process bringing in the community with how would this look? How would this program look? And just >> we've talked about a number of different types
154of programs that's different. What would make uh LRSD unique? >> So you don't have any open seats on your task force. is that >> um we we've decided to kind of get back together on who would be on the board. >> Who would be on the task? >> Started seating. Okay. >> What about you um director Kapisky? >> Yeah. So the task force document actually allows for people to apply up until May 31st. Um and then Mr. Bailey and I will sit down to kind of go through all of I mean we had like had six emails this evening actually when the text message went out. So I appreciate everyone that's already uh responding. Um but yes, so those five spots we'll we'll look to fill and then we would start our work in early
155June uh with convening the task force kind of making sure everybody's on board with the same parameters. Um and then we've already started gathering some of the data. We'll continue to gather data then come together to build that presentation and then engage the administration as well throughout that process. >> And so what is the name of your task force? >> So it is the resource optimization and enrollment task force. Well, you heard it live right here at the L Rock School District. >> Look, that's what I was getting ready to say. We have a name. It's a long name. And then the LRSD advantage task force committee. And then the other one is Yeah, that's the other one. Let's see. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, are you guys taking applications also? >> We have not
156gotten to that. We've had some communication with some community leaders, but we have not decided which approach we're going to take yet. >> Okay, sounds good. Any more questions? Motion to adjurnn. >> Sure. >> Board comments. Sorry. >> No, you're good. Um I was hoping at our later uh May meeting to go ahead and bring forth the two resolutions on title n related items. So the one is a resolution and it would resolve that we would spend any real estate proceeds on resolving title N issues. I know we have a couple of properties for sale. I already have that one drafted and I can make sure that Dr. Wright gets that to you, Director Johnson. Okay. Um, and the second one is a policy, and I assume this is going to be a new board
157policy, but it would require a title n review to be included with any new athletic staffing or athletic facilities within our district. So, I think I think the concern for me is that we we had the approval for this new baseball field that came as a result of, you know, the overall overhaul at Central and we had that come forth as part of this overall plan, but nobody asked the question, does this violate um you know, how does this fit with with title N? So, I would just like to go ahead and put that in our district policy to ensure that we are including that just like we would include a review of, you know, making sure that um if we're hiring a principal, we're following state law. If we're doing, you know, all the
158all the all the processes that occur within our district, I want to make sure that it comes before our board to have a title N. >> Okay. >> Those are the two things I'd like to bring forth next month or next meeting if that's possible. >> Okay. Um Miss Bur, I have a question. Title N. Do we have a office that is the Title N office? >> Mr. Kaz. >> I'm sorry, >> Mr. Kazay. He takes care of our Title N complaint. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Yes. >> I just wanted to be clear. Um, Director Strong, you said you going to work on something to present to us about that. >> Well, I'd like to go ahead. I have the the one I have two versions of one drafted around the real estate proceeds
159piece already. >> Um that's been drafted since last November and we put a hold on that until our new board came on board. Um and then I also have I sent an email a couple months ago about getting a policy drafted. I was just going to go reup that email because I don't know that that has happened but I will make sure that it will work on that the next week or so so that we can have it out the time. Sounds good. Any more board comments graduations is due May 21st. Okay. Academic Signing Day, a celebration for academic excellence in the Liro School District will be Monday, May 18th, 2026 at 10:00 a.m. Midtown Event Center, 6221 Colonel Glenn Road, Little Rock, Arkansas 7224. Uh, graduations will be May the 25th and they will
160start at I'm 21st. Where am I thinking? I see next Thursday. My bad. It's going to be the 21st. It starts at 9:00 a.m. Is that correct? >> 8 a.m. >> Why? >> I'm sorry. I got it all twisted. My bad. Miss F. So the entrance is going to be the same way from last year just around that back area for board members. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Well, maybe you could personalize it and put our pictures on our parking ticket [laughter] like >> Okay, Miss Vesto, did you have something you want to say? Okay. Any more board comments? >> Uh, no, you're good. our our board policy committee has been hard at we at work and I just wanted to keep youall updated on that. We have been meeting um I had to leave
161a little early this last time but we talked for a lot of hours about um new policies and it was fun. So um we'll keep you updated as we have more to share but we've been working on inclement weather and what was the other one we spent so long on before inclement weather >> certified vacation. >> Oh yeah. So we always bringing that >> vacation and how we do vacation with the shift of like 12 month to 11 and a half month and who gets vacation and who doesn't get vacation and all the things. It's >> I was like we talked for a really long time about those things. But anyway um >> but don't you already have something in place. It's not working or >> it just it needs updates. >> Yes, it it's
162working but that's just two of the two more of the board policies that we're updating. And so with the change in the contracts, we're having to reflect that in board policy >> and we need to get those in before the end of June so that they're in the board in the board policies for July one. Anyway, we have several things >> time together, huh? >> Yes, we do. We we spend a lot of time. We're going to spend a little bit more time together Monday. >> I will not be there. I will be in I might be there actually. Okay. But yes, >> ahead. Just keeping you updated. >> Okay. Any more board comments? You guys know I shut down by 8:45. I'm in the bed by 8:50. [laughter] >> Motion to adjurnn. >> How
163about that? >> Oh, yeah. That's true. Okay, go home. [laughter] Good night.