001Good evening everybody. Welcome to the Tuesday, May 20th, 2025 meeting of the Lichfield Planning Board. Would you all please stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Uh we'll start with the roll call of members. Michael Croto, chair. Joe, vice chair. Travis Tucker, member. Steve Ganon, select women's rep. Russell Planch, member. Ethan Riley, member. Jesse No, alternate. Welcome everybody. And with us with us this evening is Jamon Cara from NRPC, our circuit writer. Welcome. Uh Joan McKibben, our planning board assistant. And uh Luke Karen, our town engineer. Um appointment of alternates. Um is Jeremy coming tonight? Does anyone know? He'll be late. He will
002be late. Okay. So, um given um that he's not here right now, I'm just going to ask Jess, would you be interested in being an alternate vote if we needed it? Yes. Okay. Until Jeremy shows up, I guess, and then uh if we have if he shows up, then um I guess we'll we'll defer to him. So, all right. Uh public input on non-aggenda items, items not on the agenda for this evening. Any people have any um public input on non-aggenda items this evening? Anyone from the public? Okay, seeing none, I will close public input on non-aggenda items. We will go to the first um uh on the agenda this evening. The Road Development LLC map 22, lot 11, 522, Charles Bankraftoft Highway. Conceptual discussion to modify a previously approved site plan for a gas
003station and storage units. Approved this approved uh March 7th, 2023, and was recorded in the Hillsboro County Registry of Deeds plan number 41861. Is the applicant present this evening? You bet. We're back, Mr. Chairman. Okay, maybe the applicant can introduce himself to the board. You bet. For the record, my name is Jim Petropolis. I'm a professional civil engineer with Hanner Swanson doing business in three Congress Street, Nashville, New Hampshire. With me this evening is Dave Clark. Dave is the project manner with Marquee Construction. Like to also introduce Floyd Hayes. Floyd is with us as a um developer of this fine facility. And of course, you all know uh Renee uh as the property owner. And as just read into the record, we're we're here for conceptual discussion uh to talk about some changes to a
004previously approved plan. Of course, I look around at the board and everybody's different. Rene poor Rene's been at this job for eight years and now all of a sudden we got a new board. New board. I'm like, "Oh, wow." Oh. So anyway, we we're thankful Joan and Lou and Jay are still here and Michael and Jared actually, too. So, uh, but I'll be quite brief this evening. Um, I just want to kind of point out where we're at. Um, talk a little bit about the changes and then how we move forward. Um, the Orango team is anxious to get started. the very long awaited New Hampshire DOT approval for not only the the driveway permit but the actual roadway construction. If you remember, there was a number of off-site improvements associated with creating a left
005turn pocket into the development as well as some muchneeded sidewalk improvements out there. So, uh, plans are done and Renee tells me we're about a week away. today. We're going from temporary permanent construction till the week two weeks away. Great. Thank you. So Jay, first slide if you don't mind. Um I'm just going to give a quick kind of overview for some of the display or the concept. Uh the uh the display plan. Yeah, the colored plan. Thanks. Okay, just a quick overview for some of the board members who may not be familiar with this. This we're at 522 Charles Bankraftoft Highway in the north end of town. uh in the northern commercial district. It's a 15.3 acre site that's been in Rene's family for a number of years. Um what was approved in uh
006was somewhat of a mixeduse development. We've got a gas uh sea store, convenience store located in the front um with a drive-thru capability for a coffee type tenant. Inside the building, we've got fueling positions for not only automobiles in the front of the store, but also uh a unique element here is a right fueling station for trucks. Uh in the back part of the property, we've got uh permitted a self storage facility. uh all with a single curb cut, all with underground utilities, all with a wonderful storm water design that's been approved by not only the state but Lou as well. So um you know the project was really ready to go. Um oro knocked it uh on the door to Renee and said they'd be interested in developing this property. and Orango um Floyd's
007company um is quite quite experienced at this. They've got over 50 type facilities in the state of New Hampshire and in the Northeast that they currently own and operate. So, they're very well seasoned operators of facilities like this. As they looked at the plan, they wanted to make a couple of minor changes that I'm going to present to you tonight uh in the hopes that um you'll say, "Yeah, they look good. Let's move to the next step." And Jay, if you don't mind going to the next slide and Okay, so Dave prepared this nice overlay and what you're seeing, thanks Jay. What you're seeing in in kind of the dark or the black color is the currently approved plan. Um, and then what Dave has done is superimposed in red the proposed revisions. And so
008I'd like to just talk a little bit about those. Uh first and foremost, the building went from 5,500 to 48.40 about 660 square less square feet. Um and simply because um as one in this business, u or really knows their building. Uh as you know, there's going to be a convenience store inside. There's going to be coffee inside all within an open kind of concept as you walk in which I know you're familiar with facilities such as this. Um so we've got a smaller building. Uh the canopy positions in the front uh inch forward about 8 ft. The building comes forward about 16 ft. We've got parking uh minor changes. Um we are not getting any closer to the Charles Bankraftoft Highway. You'll see our red line on the sheet right matches the red line
009it was previously approved. So we're no closer to our active development. And the reason for the shifting is really this. Um will combine the underground fueling for both the automobile uh fueling positions and the truck fueling positions all in one location down in the south part of this sheet. Okay. And before they were in the upper right hand corner and being in the upper right hand corner, we needed to get a fueling truck off of the Charles Bankraftoft in through the site and around the back. And those turning radiuses to get around the back uh created uh a wider paved area behind the building. You'll notice the distance in the black between pavement and the back building is much greater than it is in red. And so, uh, Dave's team said, "Look, we don't need
010all this pavement. Um, we still have our parking. We still have the same number of parking spaces. Um, but we can reduce that truck movement." Now, what does that do for us? It pulls everything away. If you recall the plan, we have a wetland and a wetland buffer that we were permitted to impact the buffer. Um, that we can actually pull grading away and actually reduce portions of that retaining wall in the back. And so we're much further away to the wetland. Um we've got about 19% less impervious cover, paving and roof with this new plan. And so we may have to reposition a couple catch basins, but Lou, I don't see us changing our storm water practices both at um the immediate corner of this facility as well as the downstream condition. So, less
011building, um, less paving. The drive-thru has been slightly modified, slight shift to, um, parking, uh, a little bit of building shifts. Now, what's not going to change, uh, Mr. Chair, we still have a a dumpster setup in the north part of the site. The truck fueling in the south end of the site will remain as is. All the utilities will be underground as will the tanking the underground storage tanks. Parking count is the same and most importantly the building elevations. If you remember, Mr. Chairman, we went through colors, we went through exterior materials, we went through roof lines and Reno liked the work that Renee did. So architectural elevations and renderings will remain the same. So to me um these are you know the overall integrity of the previously approved plan in my in my
012opinion has been maintained. Uh we've got some a slight downsizing of imperous area which should be seen um as a positive. Um and I think what we're ready and prepared to do in speaking with Joan quickly before the meeting is to come back before you, Mr. chair with an amended site plan that looks to uh represent the changes uh the engineering of the changes. We'll have grading, we'll have the the amended to storm water and any utility connections loo um and other changes to the set as a result of these changes, but we'll likely be submitting an application for an amended site plan. And I'd like to talk to you about that cuz I don't think it warrants any new traffic study uh or any new um any new um uh type permitting that might
013be required with regard to that. So um I've spoken enough with that. I'd be happy to answer any questions the the board might have. Okay. Thank you very much. Um does the board have any questions for the applicant on this conceptual this evening? I think as I recall from the um the original plan, were you going to have um did you take out the car wash? Was there a supposed to be a car wash was my understanding or early on there was early on there was. Okay. So that's not going to be part of it. The plan that was approved did not include uh a car wash. Yep. And I remember um obviously this abut's uh conservation property. Um and I think there was going to be a some sort of an access property. Is
014that still on? Yeah. If you look at the top of the plan Oh, the other side, Jay. Yeah. And actually, I I didn't amend this when I was putting this together, but you can see we have a concrete pad right here. Um, my intent is to shift this so this sidewalk lines up with this curb cut. Um, so I'll take this concrete pad and slide it over, but it will still connect to this path that leads over to the conservation area. And if there's anything else specific in that area that that you're looking for, we'd be more than happy to accommodate that. You mentioned you're moving the tank fill. Where was it going to be? I see it here. It was So, originally it was in this corner. So, this is um this is the
015retail gas canopy and it will have one or two uh diesel pumps, I believe, up in here. But, uh what we did is um the tanks were originally going to be right here. Y um just for the diesel. However, um just from our experience, when you have the tank field in the traffic line of these large dump trucks, it tends to beat up the covers. It's just not safe and economically practical to do that. So, we actually moved them right to here, this area. Okay. And we in we combined the tanks. Instead of um you know having two over here and I think two or three down here, we now have just three down here that are slightly larger. And it'll also keep the the filler truck from having to go up and around the
016gas station. Right. So, I mean, you know, that turning radius, it might work. I mean, you know, as long as nobody's in the drive-thru type of thing, but we we wanted to keep that out of there and just safety wise to keep them out of the retail, you know, a lot of foot traffic on it. that and it's just more economical to have one what we call a tank farm uh down down in this area because you have to do a shoring to keep the the hole from collapsing especially for the famous amounts of sand you have in this area. So, uh, yep, that's, uh, the tank farm would be down in this area, and it would just have underground piping leading up to the, uh, to the retail canopy and the storage units um,
017are going to remain. Yeah, nothing's changed. Nothing's changed on that. I My understanding from the last time was that you were going to have what is it like a gate access to the storage units or something electronic and Correct. Okay. I I should mention that um we're anxious to move forward from a timeline perspective. We're hoping to have a plan into your June which hopefully would land us here in in July. Just to give you a sense of how we're moving. Are the hours of operation going to change at all or is that the same? I know that I think my understanding from the LA from the last the original plan it was going to be like I think it closed at 10 or something. Is that 5 to 10? 5 to 10. 5 to
01810 will not be 24 hours. Okay. 5 to 10. Any changes to the signage scheme or to that you know changes as a result of branding to the appearance of the site? Same. Jay, do you have any questions? Um, Lou, any comments? Just to confirm, the storm water management area just on the edge of the plan won't be changed. Will not. Nope. Okay. And even that wall protection that we need um Lou, you know, not all of that wall is going to need to be eliminated, just a portion of it. So with the storm water. Yeah. And um we have our alteration of terrain permit. We'll probably submit just a package up there to amend that, but we're just trying to keep it as simple and straightforward as we can. Okay. Um anybody have anything
019else? Okay. Well, uh, I guess we will probably be seeing you sometime in June and, um, I can't wait. Okay. Well, I can't wait either. That's all. Thank you. Have a nice evening. You too. Take care. Have a good evening. Good night, gentlemen. I'll probably guess cuz it'll probably be some shifting. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, moving on. Um, next item on the agenda this evening is continued work session. Design guidelines for the Northern Commercial mixeduse village district area in the Northern Commercial District was created at town meeting on March 11th, 2025. Um, also to review section 120.2 of the off streetet parking and loading. And I'll turn it over to uh Jay Mara. All right. I actually do have some paper copies for anybody who would like he's going to keep that. Yeah, I think right
020here down. I didn't do parking because I figured the only change that really we made last time was on the gathering space concept. Um, so I thought it would just make sense to wait and see what happens uh at the legislature because we're we know that we have bills that are going to impact parking. So what however that lands, we can pick it up again. We should know really within the next few weeks. Okay. So this I I kind of um struggled with just kind of some of my takeaways from the last meeting. We had the plan that was presented. Um, and I don't know if we've got the visual on here, but um, you know, basically the concept was there was a loop road. We know we have Albuquerque and 3A. We have the
021loop road and then off of the loop road, we did have some buildings fronting on it and then we also had um, you know, these smaller streets, ways, whatever there were. Uh, one of the real struggles was, um, it seemed, you know, there were obviously the plan that was presented had those carport or garage structures. Um, I'll call them carports because they're really open on one side. And all of those are were located across a street from the units. And um so that was something that as these were written was not allowed. Seemed as though and I could be wrong that there was openness to considering those. It was concern about screening them. I think one of the things that we found was that um they would fall under our existing design guidelines because those
022do apply to any structure that's uh 50 feet or more and they're 70 ft. So, art design guidelines would come into play in terms of at least the appearance of them and um it either they meet those guidelines or there there's a waiver that would have to be requested. I assume that a part of the conversation around the waiver would be mitigating the visual impact. So, um we did kind of mention G would you be open to putting in windows and I think that that was a no. Um, so I kind of struggled how to amend the language in a way that would allow more flexibility in that area. And I find my um as I was struggling, I found that we have a um we have some definitions that are helpful in our site
023plan regs. If I can find them. Bear with me for a moment. So in our site plan regulations under section 115.2.129 uh we define the term street and we define it um as follows. A major street one that is used primarily for through traffic local or regional. a secondary street, one connecting residential and other service streets to through traffic facilities and a minor street, one that is used exclusively for access to budding properties. So in the way I conceptualized it in this context, major streets would be Albuquerque and 3A. That loop road would be a secondary street. It serves to provide access to the residential streets and are called service streets. And then finally the minor street which is used exclusively to access abiding property. So I would characterize those smaller roads that are really
024just providing access to the units as a minor street. So that's what informed what I tried to do here. So now I'll go through it. Um let me see if I can blow this up. It's easier for everybody out there to see. So, the first change that I made in here is on page one. Uh, and just by the way, hopefully I was consistent. Um, the changes that we made to this draft from the first draft to the second are shown in red. The changes that I made to this draft from last time are shown in blue just so we can kind of see what we've done. So initially under this subsection five the language was carports you know garages carports parking lots etc should not be the dominant aspect of the site design um
025from any public or private streets as seen from many public or private streets I changed it to major or secondary streets kind of along that same scheme and then moving on to the second page um this is a different change and I could I'm happy to put it back in. But the language was that buildings should be set back no more than 50 ft from any public rideway. So that's right at the setback line um or 20 ft from any internal private street that provides it with access. I just kind of got the sense that people were really unsure about that. Is that really what we want? Do we want to be basically you have to be on this line? So I took it out for now. We can always put it back or some
026other version. I thought about putting in a range, but I'm not sure that was that's valuable. Um, having a consistent line is usually what you're looking for. You know, I I I mean, again, I could put something back or some, you know, but I at this point I took it out. The next section, again, very very similar thinking. Um the language is for garden style multif family buildings not more than a single row of parking may be located between the front facade of the building and once again and any major or secondary street before it was just the street. Um and then it went on to say additional parking lots, garages or carports must be located to the side or rear of a building. Once again I put or adjacent to a minor street. Um,
027and that probably makes and again the overriding theme here is is the visual impact that we care the most for is the major streets. Of course, again, that's my thinking at least. Um, once again, we had this issue of where do you know where building fronts? So, it says front-facing attached garages and driveways for single family homes, duplexes, and town houses are permitted. Um, and I took out all other and now it will read, "However, detached garages, carports, or parking lots may not front on any major or secondary streets." This next one, seven, um, I dropped it from 40% to 25. And that was really because from a visual glance, we looked at the Corning Farm example, it looked like it was 25 to 30 in that range. Um, that's probably sufficient to keep it
028from being a wall uh like looking like a parking lot because at least it's broken up. Um, but I think we also want to be realistic and that's kind of what I was struggling with. What's the typical width of a townhouse unit with a garage? There's only so much room. So, I dropped it to 25%. I guess the only other alternative there is to differentiate when there is and when there is not a garage in the building. Yes, that's right. And that's an option too. Um and then for here the subsection 4 building should have a primary entrance facing the public or private suite that provides it with access. I struck that entirely because I'm not sure it's really necessary and we kind of really struggled with how to make that work um in the
029example of it might actually be nicer to have the front facing Albuquerque even though it's not the street giving it access. So I kind of thought I think we could be flexible around that. I I see no reason not to be. And I think that's it. Yep, that's it. Otherwise, the other changes are the changes that you saw previously. I'd still like to get some nicer pictures in here for a couple of examples. And I would and I'm still toying with it. I'm happy to do it if we think we want it. Um the negative examples. Um there's a couple I thought actually would be valuable, but kind of again, do we want to have the don't do this in addition to the do this? And I'm I'm certainly open to including that. Um I
030I did have an image of a group of town houses that has no green space. So it really has that parking lot look and it really underscores the why you want to break that up. Um but again, I think that's really up to us. So that's what I've got. Okay. Well, thank you Jay. That's great. Does anybody have any questions? Um Jay, just mathematically real quick on the um the front facing area attached for garages. Sorry, the minimum of 40 to 25 change there. Yes. What kind of what kind of math you looking at for width of a townhouse? What? 20 to 30 feet max. So yeah, basically we looked at Corny Farm. What's side of my house? So Oh, I'm sorry. So let me see if I can look it up and if I
031can get into GIS, maybe I can find it. Let's see. Oh, no. I can't. Let's just take 20, which is on the small side. 25 is only 5t of width of green space, which is a walkway. Let's go do Google Maps. I assume most be more around 24 feet, but yeah, I mean, a lot of them, you know, they can be pretty narrow. If you if you've got a garage, it's probably 22, right? Um, let me zoom in. Where is my zoom? I I should have brought up um, so I seem to find is some places that are up upkept really well. You have nice green strips of grass. Then you have the really dirty places that are just not well. It's like little strips of garbage between units and it looks really unattractive. Get
032a little more width. People norally try to take care of that a little better. So it's more of a I have some lawn now. Now I'm going to maintain this lawn now and it looks nicer for a longer period of time. Right. And and and typically these developments these are are going to be condominiums or they're going to be apartments. So yeah, they're going to be all rentals then not much of a difference. So and even if they're rentals, they're going to have um common management, right? So, you're going to want to go to the bottom left and change the layer. Bottom left. All right. No, actually, I didn't want that. Yeah, it's on the left side where it says grow out a little bit. one up more north. There we go. All right. So,
033it looks really dry right in this image, but it kind of gives you a sense if these were green. That's what we'd be looking at. One driveway. You've got kind got a double area of landscaping, double pave, double driveway. Y, same thing. And then, of course, you do have the landscaping in between the units. So kind of this is nice with having the the double combined ones. You have more graphs in bigger chunks at least. So right. So it's it's kind of one way of doing it, but as you could see just in this example, if we went to 40% this type of a scheme clearly wouldn't work. Yeah. No, definitely not. No. No, that's fine. Okay. Yeah. I think we may want to differentiate if there is garage access or not because we don't
034like 25% when it's just walkways. It's going to be a when they don't combine driveways side by side like this. So, right. I bring up Call, but as I recall, they've got a row of parking in front of the units. So, it's not you don't really have that Yep. effect. Yeah. Yeah. Are major and secondary streets defined somewhere? They are in the site plan rags. So a major street is one that's used primarily for through traffic, local or regional. A secondary street is one connecting residential and other service streets to through traffic facilities. And a minor street is one that's used exclusively for access to abing properties. Most of the roads or driveways on these projects will be privately owned. Yes. You only got two typical sections in town for public road. Arterial and local.
035Oh yeah. Although I suppose they could be, but I think in the almost certainly they would be Pinerest and Hillrest could be considered collector roads. Yeah. Traditionally, yes, traditional definitions. Yeah, this doesn't go through, you know, arterial minor. It's a different classification, but it's the one we got in the site plan rags, so we might as well go with it. What would make underground utilities not feasible? I don't know. Ledge. No, no, no, no. That's an that's a cost issue. They put in and Rico they put underground utilities right through a ledge area as locked as well as the road and drainage and everything else ledges in the way they get rid of it. The only thing I can think of would be a wetland area that you don't want to go dig or for
036some reason over source saying no but we could I mean we could make it mandatory if that's what we want. could take out that qualifier then if mislocation I don't think it' be an issue for underground where this is going. So yeah, and if Eversource does say no, they would just come back for a waiver, right? This is true. Eversource is pretty flexible. So I I have a secondary job there. So I'll take out the where feasible. Yeah. And what conditions would make them say no? I guess conditions uh lack of access. If they wouldn't be able to get to things, but with all the roads we're going to put in, there's be plenty of access to the trucks. So that's not a problem in Lynchfield. No. And actually, if it's not required by the
037board, they'll say no pretty much. Yeah, we have a project in another towns where it's the it's a general requirement, but it's not on the plan and they refuse. So, the applicant has to come back to the planning board and get the subdivision amended with a note that says utility shall be immigrant. Yeah. Yeah. based on this land and where it's located, what the design is going to be, I don't see why they'd want to go over. It would be such a eyesore. It would be an It would be a serious eyesore. It would just be a constant if you driven down to Salem at all and seen where the racetrack was. Looks great minus the massive power lines running right in between the main road and the Tuscan village. So, how it goes? I
038just had a question about um the plan from I think like the 15th. So I think if I'm reading this correctly, this would basically permit like what they drew up with the garages opposite. I don't I can like cast it around but they specifically So these garages would be allowed but like not one here, not one here. That's right. Okay. Just Okay. You couldn't put them on Yeah. Little circle that loop road. Okay. Perfect. But I did send them they wanted um comments from the public and the internal technical review committee met on that project the basic concept and uh there was some discussion whether there were they were driveways coming out onto Albuquerque or streets but Jay's clarifying that they would be private streets coming out and I put a comment in that if
039I lived in one of the units to get to the commercial area have to come out of Albuquerque and then make another left-hand turn. So I said, "Why not?" And somebody at the TRC meeting did say, "Connect the commercial to the residential with that road." And so then you have one less curb cut onto Albuquerque because, you know, if you were living there, why go out make a left turn, make another left turn to get into the commercial? Yeah, minimizing left turns is a good traffic idea. So if you're not living there though and somebody ends I mean it'll increase traffic through the residential. I was going to say, yeah, not sure I'd want that. You'd have to Well, it wouldn't be that far into the development, though. You could always add trees to make
040it more curvy, too. It would decrease people wanting to go that way then. And there's a there was a entrance on 3A also. But he also did say that there'd be a a walkway, concrete walk. Yeah. Path. Yeah. But if if it's a if you're going shopping, you're going to carry all your stuff back to Yeah. We want a walkable community. I was going to say if you want a walkable community, walk. Well, if it was a a supermarket, you would you'd be pulling a little car. Now, the good thing about a walkable supermarket is you can do more, right? Small trips. This is true. Go every other day. You got a couple things and walk back. What do I want for dinner tonight? Let's go find out. That would be really nice. We should
041be increasing traffic into the community. I I think that's just asking for trouble. Yeah. Into the housing area as Yeah, that's what I mean. If we can avoid it, let's try to avoid it. Then you have all those Yeah. two curb cuts right near the Albuquerque intersection. Yeah, that's not ideal. Moving down by Morgan Lane. And like theoretically, they could just have one curb cut and then split it. traffic cycle. Is it possible for them to add like a one way just for like from the residence to the commercial lane and then not like the other way? I don't know like kind of where they were talking about putting that path, the walking path. I thought he was mentioning it around here. Oh, yeah. He just kind of like said, "Yeah, by the way, we
042could probably basic basic plan. They want they want comment back, so feel free. It's also This won't be there. So, most likely it'll be another unit. Yeah. Maintenance is going to be across the street. Do you have something? So, in the last meeting, we discussed um parking. We decided not to require windows for practicality reasons and and security reasons. Uh but we discussed the possibility of landscaping requirements. Um, do we uh want to require or is there any language in here for screening uh parking structures from the um everything but the most minor of roads? There isn't although we could add that. Yeah, I think um they still would have to meet our design guidelines because the building is 70 ft. Yeah. So under our design guidelines, they have to have windows, doorways, they have
043to have differentiated roof line, portico, they have to have all of that. So in order to do that building, they would need to seek a waiver. So for the existing parking structures, right, from our existing So let's unless they shrunk them down to 49 ft in length. Let me just go to our existing guidelines, which would probably look better. It would look better, but it would still be an isore having one giant 10 foot tall white building a little bit. Oh, it's hideous. It's more of, you know, a coup on it. Well, it's not required currently for all, but Koopas would look great on it. You know, adding depth in the siding color or texture would look great on it. You know, things like that, but we don't storage a few trees and some greenery
044would be fantastic. So, Jay, since our last meeting though, um I've thought about the no window thing because I was one of the people who was like Well, you can't ask for windows on a garage, right? But the more I thought about it, the more I thought you can if they're positioned high and they're those narrow ones up top. So, I don't know how you get to that level of transom window detail and requirement, but carriage house way I'm sorry, it's called a transom window. Okay. And so there might be a way where you can would be a public push them in that direction and also require frosted windows potentially. Yeah. And I I think that there's probably two things you're not going to see in them, but but it achieves that look that you
045want, right? You know, because in a building that any facade that is 50 feet or more in length, um, all of these design guidelines are going to fall in. and there's lots of them. We have granted waivers in the past. Um I think that's where you're going to go unless we want to exempt residential garages, which is an option because the way the language reads now is in cases of non-residential facads 50 ft or more in length and all multif family structures, the applicant shall incorporate the following architectural features and treatments to diminish building mass. And then it goes on with this very long list of well A through K. I think we could point to that. I think we can too. And and if we say no to whatever design that they come our
046ways, we can point back to that and say you go back to the drawing board and you know follow our design guidelines and then we'll talk, right? Or you could say or add, you know, provide adequate screening to the board's satisfaction and then the board would be willing to grant the waiver on that condition. Sure. Yeah. Like um I'd rather not remove the requirement and have them make a waiver with a design proposal that we we know is not going to cause may be an isore rather than just not allow not required at all and then have them just do whatever's cheapest. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's I think that's right because it really will be realistically given the terrain. It's flat and it's open. They're going to be visible. Yeah. The
047main concern is if we end up with those internal green spaces, you're probably going to be in the green space and you're just going to be surrounded by garage structures like all it could be all directions depending on. make for an awesome field with back stops everywhere. So like I wonder if we should require at least some trees around those. I think like wording like um the garage structure should not be the dominant um uh view or dominant structure visual structure from any ma art like major road. How about yes something along the lines of natural buffering to provide you know a more aesthetic look right some language in buffering the way it reads now is garages carports parking lots and or driveway should not be the dominant aspect of site design as seen from
048any major or secondary streets okay so they might with the existing wording then we can say oh we think it's dominant please at least provide some trees were I thought they would. Yeah. Might we want to add anything to the like landscaping requirements section about like trees and green space and if kind of garages are part of those common areas or do we just want to leave it earlier? Didn't we discuss bringing in more mature trees based on where they're going in here? Not less than 3 in something like that. We talked about it's on page five. Yeah, page five at the top of or beginning of two. Yeah. like suitable trees to fit the space. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm sorry. So, I'm on page five as I was searching for my pen. Where are
049you? Yeah. Most developers know that you can use Let's see. To help achieve a certain What are those trees again? It's on page five. Number five. Yeah. So, that just number two was just really street trees. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, so because we don't require the screening here, um they're going to just make their own proposal to satisfy the other requirement in the other section, right, about it can't be the dominant, but I could stick some language in here about enhancing um screening because also my guessing that we would want it to be a little a bit more naturalized like probably not a straight row. Yeah. Yeah. Not literally only along the tree or the streets where they're required. Right. Definitely. So, I could I'll add something there to kind of fluff that up. Back
050to street. Christmas. I guess one um definition thing uh that I want to just get your opinion on is are driveways defined in our regulations and would they claim any of this is a driveway or any of the internal roads would be driveways. So you could um so here's how we define driveway. the physical structure intended as a dedicated temporary or permanent means of eress and uh ingress and or egress to a property or place it goes on. Didn't we determine that that small street between where the the buildings are and the carports are that that is effectively a driveway? I refer to it. It's I mean that's arguable. Yeah, that it's a driveway, but I would say it isn't a driveway, it's a street. And the reason I would say that is because it's
051not a place, it's multiple. And you know, would the fire department say that needs to be named and you need to address it, right? Uh and my guess is yes. So only if it's a single building would they consider it a driveway. I mean, that's would be my view is a driveway is really going to a single place. You can have a shared driveway for two, but once you've gone to three, I think you're a street. Um, three or more, I would say, is a street. How about the width of it, too? Because those minor roads would be fairly wide compared to a a residential driveway, right? So, so once you get there, then you're required to meet our street sooners unless we grant a waiver. um you'd then have to meet the street standards.
052Planning board can approve private or public roads, but we say either way you meet the standards unless we get a waiver, which we have. Olsson's mobile home park is an example of where we did grant a waiver uh from the width to allow a nar. So that does happen and that's a possibility when you say gee, but you've also got to think, you know, how narrow do you want to be? Because you're going to need to get a fire truck in those. Yeah, potentially. And is the main reason that a lot of these roads end up being private for like setback reasons? You know, I don't really think so. I think it's mainly because they're not individual lots. So where you're conveying individual lots, you have to be on a public street uh or you
053don't have legal frontage. And so in this case, because it's conceived of as a rental property, it's just going to get managed all as one. There's no individual lots. So I think that's primarily why it's typically that way. And we do tend to be more flexible uh on our street requirements because it's private. Yep. So yeah. So interesting. You've got a lot of interesting little little quirks here and there. And our our definition for street in the subdivision regulations is really consistent with um site plan. There's just a minor little tweak in the um intro, but other than that, it gives the same three categories of street. Yes. So, I guess a couple little changes. Does anybody have anything else? Um, I think I mean I think it looks good. Um certainly um may maybe
054a little tweaking but um I think that um so you want me to tweak and then bring it back on bring it back. Yeah. Yeah definitely. Um if we can do that that would be perfect. Do we do that? Do we have any official documents submitted by um the developer yet for the relevant property? H no. So did we come to any conclusions on whether or not we want to differentiate the uh green space requirement in front in front of buildings uh with or without uh attached garages. What we think what do you what would that provide exactly? So currently as proposed we dropped the requirement from 40% minimum green space to 25%. Um but there are situations where they will not have attached garages in which case it would be more it would be
055easier to add more green space in those scenarios. I would just caution against that because some people might say if they don't have a driveway they they don't have a garage they want more driveway space. Like I know at some properties they have like two deed spots or two a twocar driveway if they don't have a garage. So then they might say well we don't have a garage so we're working with just the space in front of the unit. So then the question is just where do they put the the parking spots? Yeah. Is if if there are nonattached garages which are most people find appealing because they can hide cars and stuff like that. Do we want a bunch of cars taking up up to threequarters of the frontage? That's a good question. So,
056if you were to look at the Rose Meadows example, that's what they have. They have pull-in parking in front of all the oral court. It's pull-in parking in front of all of the units and then there's green space between the Yes. There's a strip of green space broken up by um walkways. Yep. So, how would that apply to that form as written? So, I'm thinking if we kind of wanted to regulate green space in between, we would probably get a row of parking on opposite side or that's what I'm curious about. Yeah. So, so right now the way it was modified, let me go back. Let's go back up to that requirement actually. Yeah. Here in Cal Court, they have six units and there's 12 spots in front of, as you were saying, two deed,
057but then he also has the garage plus a spot in front of the garage. So, you're saying each unit actually has all four spots, but if you remove the garage, each unit would have two, right? So, and this is between any this is between the street and the unit. So that would mean in these scenarios you can't have that pull in parking in front of each unit. Um so right now you can't do that. Um so we could either say if you have a driveway it's 25 it's more if you don't. Um we do allow it under these regulations for a garden style building under the theory that they need more parking. So ideally though, like in his conceptual when he came here last week, right? And you've got the loop road going around where
058they don't have the garages, right? So are you saying those people wouldn't be able to in those buildings that are on that loop, those folks wouldn't be able to pull in up to the building if they don't have a driveway? That would be true. Yes. Yeah. Looking at Kawa Court, the percent green space is very small. Yes. Um, so I guess 25% would probably be more than it's there are is right now. Definitely. So I guess yeah, we could keep right. I mean that is a point because in here we say that for garden style multif family buildings you could have no more than a single row of parking that subsection four in front of the building. Yeah. If we think that's okay with the townhouse units, we could say the same thing. So, it's
059really kind of what do we want? What do we want to see? If we do that, then that really that minimum green space kind of goes away because realistically, let me see if I can find um like like looking at it, it's possible to increase the percentage of green space by just moving the building further from the road. That's true. Um that just makes it harder to fit things in. Let's make it walkable. We want the building closer to the other. Yeah, I was going to say there's no way they're going to be very marketable if you know. Yeah, like realistically would probably to meet this requirement for 25% they'd probably have to move the building back like five feet, maybe 10, and put some grass in. That's five or 10 extra feet of walkway,
060too. So, I mean, it all if I'm a developer, that's what I'm thinking. I mean, and if I'm a a patron of or a, you know, tenant of that, it's not much further. I got to carry my groceries. Not going to be happy. 10 extra feet. Yeah. Well, you say that, but when you're old and your knees are failing, Yeah. it means something to you. These are multi-story buildings. Too young. I think if you can deal with stairs, you can deal with mobility impaired too. Yeah, these are mult all everything proposed here multi are multi-story buildings. I don't think Glitchfield has requirements for accessibility beyond what it is. State already requires. Yeah, right there. The end of page DDA close to the stuff that's already out there. Oh, yeah. here. Yeah. So, invisible. Okay. Yeah.
061So, this is Kawa Court and this is what Rose Meadows looks like. This is what the example that we were shown will look like. The Poland parking in front. Here are the townhouse units. Here's the sidewalk. And then this is the green space. This is just strip of landscaping here. And then here are the garage buildings. In this example, obviously there's no type of central green space really at all. I was back. So I guess it just comes down to what do we want? What do we want to see? Right. Exactly. Yeah. What I guess what would the developer likely modify to in this plan to fit the 25% requirement if we if we keep it as or the I think the only thing you could well there there's two options that you could do.
062You could reduce the number of parking spaces in front of each unit so that you've got green space in between these. Mhm. Or you could set the buildings back farther to achieve a large a, you know, a fatter strip of green between the building and the sidewalk. But if you remove the parking spaces, you're going to have to make up for them someplace else. You could. Yeah, you do. I mean, you you you can't not, right? So, do you want more pave? I mean, do do you want more area in which you're going to be broken up and seeing more more pavement? You I mean, it you know, we could argue that this is just moving the parking spots instead of helping anything else. Yeah. Right now, each of these units has four parking spaces.
063I did some very rough math and what we're looking at is probably 12 to 15% green space at most in front of the between the road and the buildings. But again, I mean, you could push back the building a little more and gain a fatter green strip in front of each building and that would be a way of accomplishing it. Um, if they had enough property, couldn't they make the circle bigger and make some green space in the middle? You mean here? Yeah. Yeah. But we're talking about the green space requirement in front of the buildings. Yeah. So, that would be one option is you could move the building back. Another option would be some of these parking spaces go to the side so that you've got some green breaking up that length. That's an
064option. So, it' be some combination there. Um, so I mean this is an example without a driveway. So maybe keeping it at the 25% you still have some flexibility as to how to do it. Um, again that's whatever we want to see. Yeah, I think the approximate square footage between the road and the building in this situation is a little over 4,000 square ft. So if we require um 25% green space, that's about a thousand square feet of um green space, which is about a 31 by 31 ft area, which could just be breaking it up into two section and removing removing two or three parking spots. Because this this building here is what? This is probably about I can measure. I was going to say 90 ft. That is 110 ft according to 10
065ft across. Yeah, 120 parking spaces are nine or 10 ft wide. Yeah. All right. Six units per Yep. is probably 20 ft deep. So the building's what maybe 20 5 ft back. The depth according to this is measuring the roof. What would you say? How far did you say? The length of the parking space is 18 or 20 ft. You don't have 18 ft between the end of the parking space and the building. No, no, I'm saying from Callawa Circle from the street. The distance from the from the street. from the street to the building to the building 18 and five and probably three or four right this says 40 28 40 40 oh wait it's 40 that's seems too much probably 25 26 in that range so how deep is the are the parking
066spots so I can get a ref yeah that matches so it's about two so it's around 40 ft two two parking lot or parking spot depth away doesn't seem like you could fit another car between the building and the front of one of these cars. Yeah. You ignore the deck or the porches. Okay. Yeah. I think it depends on what you call the front of the building, you know, which where the steps start. Yeah. I'd say the building facade. So, yeah. So if I'm right, you need about 1,200 ft of green space in that scenario. Yep. Which if it's just along the length of the building, that means that really it's only 10 if that's a 10 foot green strip. Yeah. That that's nothing. That's really I mean I would think that's pretty achievable. Yeah.
067and wood soften that be it would make it easier to put grass in if that's desired or what 25% that's yeah if you want to achieve the 25% in this scenario you'd need a 10 foot which I think is fine I mean I just am not seeing the value in differentiating between a higher for if you don't have a garage versus not like I think the 25 blanket seems fine yeah looking after looking at the examples it looks It should it won't matter. Okay. All right. Okay. So, yeah, if it was 40% that would much more drastically change this design. Yeah, I thought a garage would be different. Very different. So, 25% is at least pushing the developer to make it not just pavement building. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it went into his pavilion
068cuz it was private. Right. All right. All right. Well, um ne any next steps, Jay? I'll make some changes and bring it back. Um you know, just thinking timing wise, the only change I'm really looking at is, you know, um beefing up the landscaping requirements. So, I guess our next meeting would be the 3. Okay. And if we're happy with what we see then, then maybe we could do a public hearing on the se 17th. Okay. Sounds good. Sounds like a plan. And if I had to guess, I guess inevitably once we go through our first one, we'll probably see things that we'll want to change and probably come back and modify those. Okay. Yeah. All right. Very good. Well, law says the first project coming in will have four or five waivers for sure.
069Yeah. And then we'll have to come back to the drawing board. Yeah. Our goal is to make it practical but still beneficial. Yeah. All right. Uh, next. Also, go ahead, Jay. I'm sorry. I was I was just going to add I think what probably would be helpful is if I just stick in a reference back to the design guidelines and the site plan regulations in general that section just so that that tiein is clear. Yeah. Yeah. I'll stick that in. Okay. Good idea. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. Um, next item is committee reports. Any reports from any committees? All right. Um Jay, anything on Bye. Thank you, Lou. Appreciate it for coming in. Have a good night. Anything on economic development? Have you heard anything or No, we had to push it off. Oh, Jeremy, I'm
070sorry. I made it. Sorry. Um, no, we had to push it off because we weren't quite ready to submit stuff yet. So, no, no change. All right, that's one time. I think it's down to final report time, right? Correct. That's what we're working on now. But it's supposed to be hoping to develop this month. So for our July meeting, we should have something. Sorry. Yeah. Finish in June. For our July meeting, we should have something before you guys. So Okay. Yeah. Cool. Uh anything from NRPC? Uh no, we did have our annual forum. So we did it was well tended. Yeah. Thought so. I thought it went well. Very good. Um anything from the board of selecting, Mr. G? No, it was a quick quiet meeting. Okay. Okay. Um, oops. I don't have anything to
071report from conservation. I think we usually our meetings are usually the first uh Thursday of the month and we just had ours um a couple weeks ago for um for May. Um Lower Marramck Local River Advisory Committee did get an email from those folks. might be having a meeting at some point for some sort of a um someone submitted a plan. Um I think it's a shoreland permit. So might be looking into that or alteration drain. I can't remember which one it was, but um so I know that they're looking for a new um chair. Um Fran Murphy is stepping down. So, I think that um they'll probably have a discussion about that. So, we'll wait and see what happens. Uh capital improvement committee uh just met. We have a meeting coming up in June
072and I think that covers everything. Okay. Mr. Shabern, hello. Done. Yeah. Well, we're getting done. We're about to be. Yeah, we're going through the agenda making us here later. Yeah. I mean, I was watching everything and fine, but don't kill us on the on the green space in our town houses. I mean, that's what you're doing right now. You know, it's like we're going to face all the units and so the front of the units are going to face Albuquerque. So that's what you're going to see when you're driving through to to you know drive through Rose Meadow and they have trees in front of them. They have green space in front of them. They're not, you know, it's just people want to park in front of the units and because of the length of
073the building and the width of it, we need we can't have if we if if you Rick, can we ask you to sit at the table so Yeah. Just so that the microphone, if if you make us break up that parking lot and put So the middle unit, there's there's a green space in front of it. You know where the car's going to park? On the green space. on the green. He ain't going to park three places down. So, we need to we just That's what the We just had this conversation. You must have been in the car because we talked about how I argued that, you know, I'm old. I don't want to be walking too far to walk to bring my groceries up. So, calculations, quick calculations of what our 25% would would
074truly mean in the way of a strip. It depends on the width of the unit. So you and you got to give each unit two two parking spots in front of it. You got to How big is your your six unit at? Well, the ones you're building now or what are they 120 longs? Yeah, they're about that. Yeah, about 120. And then the garages I think you said were 70. The units are No, they're more than that. They're uh they're 16 ft wide. So whatever that is. 16 * 6. Oh, smaller than Yeah. So less than 120. Less than 120. He didn't you say 110 Jay? The the units are 16. I think the 16 people I that my guess was around 110. Yeah. Yeah. 110. So we reduced the number from 40% to 25%
075since the last meeting. And according to our calculations that would be around a 10 foot green space in front of the building between the building and the uh pavement. Okay. But why don't we get any credit for all the green space behind the buildings? Why does it have to be where they're parking? It's to make it look aesthetically pleasing. But have you been Have you been through Rose Meadow though? Because I think Rose Meadow looks a lot better than Callaway. Callaway is tighter. Rose Meadow is more spread out. They all have they all have a lot of green space around them though. I mean, when you look back, they all have big back. Yeah, I understand. I understand. But it it it it's people want so having a big green space in front of the
076unit just makes it tougher. Okay. And I mean we're not going to have as many garages up here, you know, the next as we do now. But I think putting the units towards facing Albuquerque, the front of it, so they come in the back door. Yep. I mean, I don't want to do that in the whole project because then it's going to put units facing backs the wrong way. Okay? So, we don't want to do that because then that's not going to look so hot. So, in some ways, before you tie this down, let us come up with what our real conceptual plan is going to be because we're going to be the first ones. And I'm willing to work with everybody and talk about it. So, it doesn't have to be etched in stone
077right now. So, if we don't etch it in stone, have a guideline, but give us some room. Okay? Cuz it's like I don't want to I don't want to use vinyl siding. So, I'm going to use wood siding. I I that's my my goal. Mhm. That wood siding out there so that we can make it look something different. But that that goes at a whole lot more expense than vinyl siding. So, there's things that we want to do to make the project really nice and I want your input and I want everybody involved, but don't just don't cut us off too quick. That that's all I'm asking. Just let we'll we'll work together. We'll we'll come up with what everybody's happy with, but just give us a little bit of wiggle room right now because
078we are the first one. I'm telling you, we'll work with you. You know, we will. And we just need a little bit of room there. Jay's only working on the last draft right now, so it's not done quite yet. I know, but we're still, you know, I I don't get with the architect until June 4th. It's going to take, you know, we're two or three months away, you know, and I I heard we're that and what I gave you for a plan is going to totally change. We are going to tie the commercial into it. We're going to do some the we're going to put a road in. We were probably going to do that anyway. Um, we're probably only going to have one entrance on Morgan Road and just go in with one road.
079So, it's things that we're listening to what everybody's saying, we just still throwing it out there so we can get what everybody wants. So, whatever that committee, well, they were arguing over driveways and streets, and Jay cleared up that they're streets. The streets can come out on Albuquerque. Yeah. But if we can get away with one entrance off of Albuquerque and then the commercial by itself and we tie the commercial, it probably makes sense. So, we're probably going to do that. We may. Right now, Jim's looking at actually tying into Morgan Road at KBY Road. We may do that. We don't know yet. We're still completely very early stages trying to make it all work that I want it to work. I want it to look really good. It's just like we're going to have
080the two buildings out front. We're trying to figure out a design, but I want them to look like a barn because both buildings are going to look I like barns as you can tell. Yeah. Other suggest adding fake barn doors to the back of the carports instead of windows. They had break up depthwise. Yeah. So, you know, something like that to kind of get you both both views. But, you know, they have a garage door in the front. They're not they're not open. None of the none of the buildings are open. Garages are all closed. But, yeah, you know, if we have to put a window in some places, okay, let's you know, we we'll get there. We just need to all I need to hear everybody's ideas, but we we got to kind of
081on some of the little things like how much landscaping we have in the front or whatever. We need a little bit of room. You know, you know what the unit's going to and we are not going to have a garden style unit in there. We've looked at we've done a kind of a study and with all the big units that are being built in Nashville and Manchester and we feel the market the our market's going to be much better as town houses. So that's what it's going to be. They're going to be all townous. Yeah. The last thing we want to do is make your regulations so hard that developers say, "You know what? I could put in storage units and it's much quicker. Yeah, we're not gonna do that. We Oh, I know you're
082not going to. I know you. Yeah, we're gonna And it's really the last everything that I have right there other than the 30 acres that that's for sale that nobody's going to see. I mean, that by St. Francis that, you know, that's that's probably going to be housing, too, but you're never going to see it. So this piece is like the last piece and then everything from the driving range all the way up to, you know, to where the gas station's going is that's what we have. And that's why I said, so this piece we're going to between us, we're going to get it right. So that but we just need that give us a little room. Do you have any numbers on what you do have in terms of green space on those units?
083No, we're still we're still with What about your June 4th? Yeah. Like what about being the existing? So So you mean like at Rose Meadow? Yeah. Oh, I I think we're at 50% green space on the whole project. And what about right in front of the units? Cuz that's this bullet that we're working on in front of the between the road. It's not It's not big, but it's not big. It's It's There's a sidewalk. this curb and there's a sidewalk your steps, you know, there's I don't know from the front of the building to the back of the walk might be 10 feet. Yeah, that but that's what we're saying is that by our calculations the 25% gives plenty of room for the developer to you know we feel but then it's going to be
084where they're where they're going in where the parking lot is. So the ones facing Albuquerque for instance there's a bulkhead there too. So we even have less green space. Seriously. Okay. So we have to have a bulkhead. We don't have the bulkhead on the front of the unit in the by the front door, right? So you know that's going to be at the back door, but they're going to we're going to flip the unit. So when they walk in the back door be walking into the kitchen at Calawar Court in Rose Meadow. They when they walk in the front door, they're walking into the kitchen. We're going to, you know, flip the unit so that the ones facing Albuquerque. So, just, you know, it's a moving target right now to try to get everything to
085fit and how how we're going to do it. Yeah. Okay. So, just keep in mind that I know that if we split up any of that parking in front of those units, they're going to park unless you curb it. Doesn't matter. It's still happening. Curve stop anybody. It's the same thing with trying. It's not going to stop. Yeah. It's the same thing with trying to reduce it to just two parking spots. You know, someone's going to have a friend, someone's going to have a third car. There's going to be a need for added spots. Oh, you have to have you have to have at the minimum of three parking spots per unit because then that extra car will be sitting on the grass or sitting green space someplace. Yeah, there it's just there's never enough
086parking. Never never enough. Do you have any ideas on the requirements that we should do between for the very front of the buildings? because that's what we're working on. And uh I know you're you're wary of the the green space requirement as far as the green space or an alternative to the that requirement. I mean, go look at go look at go look at Rose Meadow. Drive in there. I mean, I was going to tell you guys to drive through because we're starting to plant the trees and just you can see what we're doing along the road so that you have an idea what when we're out here because it's the same thing. It's a field that you can see that that we're planting the trees um that we're going to do. But look at
087the front of the building. You high eye of the beholder. I think they look good the way they are, but that's something else to look good too, you know. And then I'll come up with something like the walk. What's that? I'll come up with something. It is a good idea to take a drive down there for anybody who hasn't though because it really is going to be the example I think. Yeah, it's the example. It's it's the example. It's what you see there, you know, except for coming up with what we're going to use for sighting. And if you go around the back of the building, just walk around the back of the building and or you can you can actually drive and see. Well, you can see when you drive in, you'll see the
088back of the building. That's what people are going to be driving up to to go into their house on the lots facing Kellogg Court. I mean facing Albuquerque. Sorry. Yeah. And what side do you have in um Rose Meadows? What size? What? What siding? Siding. Siding. It's all They were identical units, same colors. Everything's the same. Identical. Yeah. Yeah. The main concern I have with wood is if like I'm sure you'd maintain it but it once it stops being maintained perfectly it looks worse. Yeah. But vinyl vinyl can vinyl burns out from the sun too over time. So, it's not, you know, we're using, so at Calawa, we we have a 20-year vinyl, and at Rose Meadow, we went to a 30-year vinyl, but the 30 years is probably only going to last 20 years
089being at the brightness. Yeah. Open the field. I don't know what the 20 years like shingles on your roof. You buy 30 years shingles and in 20 years, you got to change the roof. Yeah. You know, it's just the way it is now. So, okay. I don't know. I mean, we'll have to stain them, but you know, the wood can, but it's going to be owned. We're going to own it. So, it's somebody going to own it someday. And and I would think that, you know, a an apartment place like that or town houses like that are going to be maintained. Yeah. You guys build not too many of them that don't get maintained. You build a building a decent HOA cost and take care of it. Should maintain pretty well. Yeah. whatever it is,
090you know, I mean, between mowing the grass and taking care of all that stuff's going to happen. Yeah. You know, we have sprinkler systems in the whole place. So, it's, you know, there's all things like that that make a big difference. Do it. So, anyway, that's where I am. So, we'll probably in sometime in maybe a second meeting in June, I might be able to come in with a new concept plan. Okay. Just to give you and the one I gave you was just a to get started, right? You know, but at least it's an idea of where we're headed. Okay. That's where we are. All right. Okay. Just so your plan that you brought in originally got us talking about the primary roads and the secondary roads and the minor roads and then that
091opens up a whole lot of conversation because then like the minor roads where the garages are in the back side of the units are not so important as like what we see from Albuquerque. Well, so the fire department's going to make us name everyone. Okay. So they're they're going to make us name everyone. So and they are at Rose Meadow. Everyone has a name because they're all different. So the only way they're going to find a person in the emergency is to go to that road. That's what it's going to tell them. So they're all going to have a road name. How how wide are they? They're all 24 ft. 24 ft. So it's like a big overro. So it's much bigger than a driveway. Yeah. Oh yeah. Normal road is 24. Well, they're all
092built. You have to build them that big just to get the rubbish truck in. That's true. you know, and you have to set the rubbish the the container the right way so the rubbish truck can come in, drive in, back up, and go back out. So you you got to have loops around just get the rubbish truck in, you know. So if you don't, then then if you don't have the rubbish close by, they're they're not going to that's another problem, you know, with rental property. you just all the things you got to think about to make sure that not everybody but there's always do. So, those are things that we have to, you know, and then like with the garages, you we we try to get the the we did at Rose Meadow is
093we put the the dumpsters so they're kind of hidden in the garages and then they're not fenced in yet, but they're coming. They're going to get fenced in and taken care of that way, but they're not yet. But, you know, try to keep them out of sight as much as you can. Mhm. Anyway, that's where we are coming with that so far. Good. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Good. I think we're good. Thanks for coming down. I know. Didn't interrupt dinner or anything. Like, oh my god. I wasn't I just just didn't want to I just didn't want to have to something done so that we have to ask for all kinds of waiverss. Yeah, you know, that's really I I think it's fair to say and I think I can speak on
094behalf of most of us that it's clear that you're willing to work with us. What what we're worried about and what we want to um mitigate the risk, I guess, is that any other developer who isn't you or is not working in the same capacity is I you know that we don't have problems. I understand. I totally understand. I I I get it. But that's why I said we're we're coming first. So, and I don't know of anybody that's coming yet or has a plan or even they will be coming, but not yet. We'll be first, I guess. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. Have a good night. Okay. Feel bad. Zoom call next time. ISDN line to Rick's house. I'll come up with some alternative language that we can consider decision. Um obviously by
095flying down working on something. So I understand that. Okay. All right. Um so we talked about committee reports. Little segue there. Um next is uh the May 6, 2025 meeting minutes. Did everybody have an opportunity to take a look at those? Have any questions or concerns? I have some corrections. You have some corrections. Okay. First of all, circuit writer isn't Mr. Manara, Mr. Manara. It's Mr. Jamara. Okay. On circuit writer. Um the first paragraph under business um on page one. Page one. Yeah. Second sentence says, "He explained that a sidewalk will be constructed on the east side of Albuquerque Avenue connecting to the gas station and I just added on the west side if that's okay. Gas station on the west side." Would that be Albuquerque or would that be um the 3A side of
096Albuquerque connecting to the gas station? I think it mean I think that's supposed to be 3A. Yeah. Charles Bankrupt on the limit cuz that wouldn't connect to the gas station. Yeah, cuz it's already a sidewalk. Yeah. Huh. Good catch. You're right. Okay. And on page two, the one two3 paragraph starts, "Construction is set to begin where the existing sidewalk currently ends on Albuquerque Avenue. The new sidewalk will match the existing concrete standard and continued southward. I think it continues northward." Northward. Yes. Okay. Okay. On page three, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eighth paragraph starts conversation shifted to infrastructure improvements, including reconstruction of town roads, utility pole relocations, widening by two feet, and road resurfacing. I don't know what we were widening by two feet. This was uh right side of um the Rose
097Meadows. Yes. This is Cutler Road. Yep. Yeah. The road's not getting widened by two feet, but 102 is getting widened by Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know what it says. Clarifying that might be a good idea. Clarifying clarify that 102. Okay. And I think that was all I had. Anybody have anything else? I have a question. No, go ahead. Okay. On page two, it's mentioned that the LCTV streaming stopped. Should we have a a tape recorder going in the room as a backup just in case the streaming fails and there's no recorded record? He did he did have one meeting where he couldn't he didn't get the sound. I don't know if it was this meeting or because he asked me to clarify some things. probably wouldn't be a bad idea there. I heard
098from John that there is a Yeah. And they have to record it manually, right? Yeah. In addition to what's broadcasted, right? Yeah. But in on the rare occasion where that fails, should we have just a tape recorder going here just to capture the conversation so the minutes can be accurate? Like just completely separate from that system. Yeah. Belt and suspenders and belt. Well, Matt usually does the minutes. Well, that would make sense if something happened on the television then, right? Where's where's this information coming from? Yeah. Mhm. Well, I think the question is when did when do you know that it's happening? Right. Is it as a result of going back and looking at the tape and seeing a gap or is it if you realize it midstream then we can correct? I think it
099happens sometimes it stops live so YouTube and TV they can't see it and John said but often it still records but then in this one I think it stopped recording altogether so like Russ would obviously know he ran it for a while maybe a DVR would be kind of nice to have you know a third redundant tool yeah something just separate from from the LCTV console just a a tape deck here you hit the record button and you've got that as your backup. The backup to the backup. Should just be a matter of picking one up. Small ones and teaching the kids how to change a tape. I was concerned. It's all digital. One of these. Yeah, you could. It's all digital. Yeah. But how did we do it before LCTV started recording these? We
100had a tape deck on the table. Table. Yeah. And we would all just have our meeting. The tape recorder would be recording everything. Yep. It wasn't until around 2014 or 2015 that LCTV picked up this meeting for broadcast. Oh, you're talking about just audio. Complete audio. Oh, I got you. I thought you meant like a DVR. The minutes don't need to show that I've gestured like this. This just need to show that I've spoken. Yeah. Should we clarify that the wells are for irrigation purposes? And where are you? Where are you? On page three where the bolded uh talks about the wells. That's a good idea. It's Yeah. Yeah. Right below the sentence that you were mentioning earlier on that page. Um a key point was the successful drilling of two wells yielding 120 gallons
101per minute and 85 gallons per minute respectively, indicating ample water availability for the development. So that's not on this site that was being discussed. that's across the street in the industrial site. Um, and those I'm sure would only be for irrigation purposes because irrigation. Yeah. So, that might confuse people without that context. So, we might want to say um for for irrigation usage. Yeah. I had something on page six. Um, uh, paragraph four, first sentence, end of the sentence. I want to remove the word not. Um, new facility from scratch and did undergo site plan review. I remember that. What paragraph, please? Four. First sentence. Okay. So just remove the word not that sentence. Uh right. And then a couple paragraphs below on that. Um five, six, seven. The other one where my name is
102mentioned starting the paragraph. I guess I didn't understand. I kept reading reading the sentence over and over again and I don't know. Um toward the the end of that paragraph it said would include 50% of the fees other require otherwise required. Do you mean 50% of the spaces? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I was read that about six times and was like what are you trying to say? Okay. Yeah, this is the parking section. Yeah, if you could say 50% of the spaces otherwise required, not fees, that would be helpful. Anybody have anything else? If everybody's good, I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes as amended. Some moved. Okay. Have a motion by Letha. Can I Do I have a second? Second. Second by Russ. Any further discussion? Um, just a point of clarification. Uh,
103so Jeremy, you weren't here. Uh Jesse was is an alternate and I said he could um vote because you weren't here. Do you mind if he votes tonight or he can vote? I'll abstain. It's not it's fine. Okay. I just want to I want if you're I just wanted to make sure that No problem at all. Okay. Yep. All right. So, um you were absent during this meeting on the minutes anyway. Yes. All right. Have at it. Take a vote. All those in favor of approval of the May 6, 2025 meeting minutes. um as we've amended. Please signify by saying I I those opposed abstained. I Okay, motion passes 601. That' be seven. Seven. I'm sorry. One, two, three. Unless we just not include the Oh, non voting member. Or you just drop my vote
104all together and have him be the vote for today. It's fine. So just be 70. Yeah. Okay. With a note that we'll drop my So it's um 700 Z. Okay. Thank you. All right. See, do we have any other business this evening? Jay, do you have anything? I do not. Uh Joan, no, I do not. Does anybody have anything? I I have one thing and I just wanted to bring it up um only because I did see it in the emails and if I can find so here it is. Uh so there is a New Hampshire Municipal Association uh is doing a um well they're doing a ZBA basics webinar on Wednesday, June 18, 2025. It's a Zoom from noon to 2. Um, if you're interested in how the zoning board works, you can register
105for it. But I just wanted to throw it out there something to if you want to add it to your educational is that NHMA? It's NHMA. Yeah. And that's I think that was it. Yeah. Okay, that's all I had to report. Um, I don't have anything else this evening. If nobody else has anything else, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved. A motion by Jeremy. Do I have a second? Second. Second by Russ. Any discussion? Travis. All those in favor say I. I. I. Those opposed? Abstained. Well, technically you can't vote because Jeremy did the motion or No, he's still a voting member. He's still a vote. Yes, he's still voting, right? But Jeremy made the motion. So, would that affect it? I I I shouldn't be voting on You need to Yeah, you
106Well, that's right. You You did. You made the motion. I mean, we could stay here all night. I How about this? All those in favor of adjourn, please say I. I. Those opposed abstain. Motion passes 700 Z. Have a good evening everyone and we will see you um in June. Good night.