12/15/2025 School Board Meeting

001in trouble. >> We're live. >> All right. Thank you very much. All right. Sorry for the delay, everybody. It's 505 506. We'll call this meeting of the school board to order. And we'll begin with the pledge of allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. I do know that we're we're one man down at the we do expect Erica to join us in progress. We'll begin with the consent agenda. Item two on the agenda will look for a motion to approve the consent agenda which include minutes from the December 15th school board meeting. That can't be right. The December 1st school board meeting. >> So second discussion all those in favor? >> I

002oppose stay. Motion carries 4 Z. Patty, the business report, I assume most of what you have to walk us through is relevant thought for the budget committee. So that we just roll right into that. Kind of take the next two things as one thing. >> That sounds like a great idea to me. >> All right, let's do it. >> All right. Most of most of what we have tonight is uh Patty's going to walk you through. She has some uh documents to share with you. We do have the one thing we want to spend a little bit of time on too is the CIP. Last time that was a bit of a mess. I was trying to project it and I were sitting there and you we were so we we have hard copies for

003you low tech. That's kind of important. It actually kind of gives you a feel for at least for what we know. We don't have we don't have a crystal ball here, but we know about some potential uh expenditures that'll be made over the next five years or so. So, we'll get a little discussion of that and then entertain any questions you might have. So, I'm going to defer to Patty here to she has some documents to go over with you. >> The budget itself has not changed again since the last time we met. We're still um looking at just under a 3% increase depending on what we decide to do with um war articles which I think did you guys have any more questions? There were a couple outstanding things that I had for Diane

004information on last week that you shared that with them. >> Um, did you guys have any other outstanding questions on budget specific? I think the only thing that I um talking to Steve was about um maintenance issues uh since you didn't run the school board forward maintenance projects and how you're going to handle it and I think it's mainly at the end. >> Yes, that will go hand inand with our CIP discussion. Okay. >> Um so if you want we can just move forward to the warrant. Okay. And because at the end of that is kind of what's going to start the CIP conversation on the trust fund deposits and just um for clarification um so all of this has been accepted by the the school board you voted on. No, I think I think

005we were just waiting for like the um warrant to come out, discuss what's going to be on that and then at that point I believe we will vote on numbers and things like that. Um so article one um for the first time um we will have the moderator, school clerk and treasurer all voted for three-year terms. That article was on the warrant and passed last year. So now going forward all those um terms will be for review on those two positions. Article two will be our budget amount and our default amount which you know we would have to vote on if nothing changes in what I've provided to you guys. These would be the figures that we would be voting on. Article three is a um capital reserve deposit from fund balance. Um we've been

006doing um 50,000 to equipment and a 100,000 is article 4 um for facilities facility maintenance. And then um we did add article five after um speaking with administration 50,000 to the special education capital reserve fund. Um we have some um placements and the price of um placements has gone up significantly I would say over the last few years mainly because it's very limited on what we have available to us. So >> location I mean it's compromise. >> Yeah. What? Within the state? Within the state. Um and we currently only have 240,000 in our special education fund right now. So we thought maybe we should build that up a little bit more because one placement could take the whole amount. So, um, the ad the director asked if we could start putting into that. Um, I

007think she was hoping to see a 500 thou,000 balance for contingencies. That may happen, but we're just going to start with 50,000 um this year and 50,000 for for equipment. And the 100,000 is what we have been doing to what we did this past year. But we're going to have a conversation about that um with CIP and did that. Do you guys have any questions about the pretty straightforward articles? >> So on your um building and maintenance, what is the balance? Um building and maintenance is let's see equipment has 72,000 and facilities has 2 million. >> Just a question on the special education. >> Yes. >> Placements. I don't think we've talked about that yet. um that when you're talking about placements in that context that is separate and distinct from placements around manifest hardship.

008Correct. >> That's correct. >> Yes. >> This is the traditional >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Kelly just came to us during our admin meeting and said she was kind of nervous and is looking at some of the bills and was thinking, you know, if something were to happen, I would never want to see us like zero that account out that >> she felt she felt it should account. >> Not since I've been here. >> I so don't know if we know when we last did it, why we stopped. Does she anticipate um any >> She doesn't anticipate it, but we've just had a lot of changes and pretty much from here on out this won't change. This budget isn't going to change going forward. And we've just had a lot of changes and typically

009it just kind of seems like a certain time of the year and then she knows her budgeting, but she's really nervous. She just felt like the 200,000 is just not enough money um for making this budget commitment for next year. >> Tuition, I don't know if you call it tuition, but tuition must be >> and it varies, right? It varies on the situation, you know, and what goes with that, you know? So, she just really felt if we could start putting something in it. I mean, maybe we don't have to do 50,000, but it all depends on what we have it announced, right? >> Articles we have and what goes first and you know >> the term full-blown placement is $100,000. Is this still working? >> Oh, yeah. Easily. >> Yeah. So, this is >>

010a number of years ago. Yeah, it's probably more than that. But >> yeah, >> but is this is sorry, is this just strictly placement or is this all specialed costs associated with >> this account is any cost? Any cost it could be >> just for context, right? So like we could be required by the state >> to place somebody >> for special ed purposes and we could be accountable for costs in excess of tuition. Right? So, we could have to pay mileage to reimburse a parent for driving their student >> to and from wherever they're getting the special education services that they're they um entitled to by state law. So, this isn't just >> right. This this fund can be used for any per purpose with special ed. That was just the concern that our

011director had why she thought we should put more in it. Got it. seems reasonable. And also, you could have someone that just moves into our district and meets those types of concerns >> because there really isn't anything in your operating budget for this. Um, >> No contingency in your operating budget for this. So, this is the fund that you would go to if you needed it. Any questions? >> I'm late so I'm not sure. But have we gone over general supplies yet? >> No, we only started. >> Sorry for being late. >> No, we started with the she did say that she didn't feel like anything was going to change on this. Did you have questions about general supplies or I didn't want to be >> No, that's okay. No, that's okay. >> No, wait

012for my turn. But I do when we get here. Do you want to roll into CIP and then we can have further discussion on articles and things like that? >> Let's roll on in. >> All right. This document has the uh the full CIP work that was done earlier, the town and the school. This is a draft. It's still a official official. Certainly invite any bill, anybody else who's been directly involved with this to chime in. But uh the schools part of it toward the end of the document and you'll see the uh the some of the big ticket items. I think we when we started this process we set a threshold I believe of $75,000 um project any project above $75,000 was was something that we put in. Right. And John Thank you. So

013you're almost on the page of the last. >> Yeah, pretty pretty well. >> Next to last. >> Yeah, pretty. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you all would have already seen this when the CIP was presented at >> Yeah. >> the quarterly meeting, right? And there's no change to what's in print. The only change is that we've removed at least for the time being the discussion around the new elementary bill. So that item is off, but everything else would be as it was presented and reviewed then. >> Correct. >> So Matt, Matt, could you say that again, please? >> We we went over this in detail at the last quarterly meeting right when Tony was there and we walked through it. >> Well, okay. Just to shorten it, my question is >> given that we're not

014going for a school up on the hill, but not >> is there any change in this capital improvement plan for the elementary school? >> So, the decision to not proceed with putting the elementary school on the ballot was made after the CIP draft was final. >> Right. >> We've disbanded the Lakeway committee, >> right? So I would say at this point in time the official position of the board is that we are not at the moment pursuing a new elementary bill. Right? So in which case I would say yes that best best understood that that $40 million hit comes off for the moment and if there's a new project at a later date. >> My real question is what are you going to do about the elementary school since >> again our position has always

015been we're going to maintain the elementary school and we have been maintaining the elementary school. So there are projects here. You'll see Lakeway referenced and a number of items. If you look in the project title, the building is in parenthesis next to it. You'll notice that there's a lot there that is relative to Lakewick. We've always felt um unlike the people who oversee the courthouse evidently that we need to make sure we keep the building maintained. So we've been maintaining the building, we intend to continue to maintain the building. It will still be in use until it's not. So this is representative on what you want to do. That's really the question. >> I mean without I I guess I'll defer to the facilities boys, but I know without Dale here. I mean I think

016that's true though. Yes. >> Yes. I >> think the the only difference we should note is that the structural upgrades uh which when this document was originally done uh shows up in fiscal 2030. >> There's a good chance Yeah. Good chance that'll actually be this summer. >> Oh yeah. We're working now with you with engineers and architects to take a look at what that would look like to uh to uh address that. >> But if John put a different way, if your question is does not pursuing an elementary school mean there's suddenly another $8 million worth of whatever that we want to fit in in the next five years and the answer that is no. >> Okay. >> All right. That answers my question. But something like that what Steve just mentioned might be important

017to >> Yeah. But that's be that's being driven less by has nothing to do with the timeline of pursuing a new elementary bill. That has to do with the timeline of the assessment and the urgency that we're going to hear back in terms of plan or if that needs to be remediated. >> Whether not >> whether or not it needs to be remediated the load issue that we're having or we may have. >> So when you say structural it really is structural on >> Yeah. Gregor, Bill, do you want to give a 90 second overview of that? >> Sure. When the second floor was in installed, uh, that was the roof structure. So, the girders were either 4T on center or 2T on center. Because of the areas where it's 4T on center, there's a

018lot more flex in the floor, which has caused constant cracking in the in the second floor hallway. Um, from the inspections that we've had in engineering reports, structurally it's not unsafe, obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be using it. However, that's still a problem with the fact that the floors bounce as much as they do. Um, and it's something that we want to address, get rid of that because does make people uncomfortable. Let's face it, you're there and your floor is bouncing. How, you know, how much is that really going to make you feel secure? There are some load issues also that we're studying just to make sure that we're we're in compliance, but there's there's no doubt in anybody on the facilities team mind that we need to do some reinforcements and Dubo King right now

019is doing that study to come up with a plan to say this is what we need to do. >> Um and it's not up to today's code. So obviously by doing structural reinforcements it would be brought up to today's code. It passes the code for 19 not sure >> 50s or is it 50s I think they did that second form 50. >> Yeah whenever they did the second form it meets that code obviously but it doesn't meet today's code. >> So the assessment is going to be completed when >> uh by the 16th of January. They've already they went in on uh the day before Thanksgiving and actually inspected all the floor joists, took measurements on everything. Um did a much deeper dive to make sure that we weren't looking at something horrific. And now

020they can they got enough information. They were uh they said that all the engineering studies that we've had done in the past uh hold true still as far as the condition of the building, the flooring. So they're just moving forward now with what we want to do, which is to shore up that floor. get rid of the bounce and bring it up to code. >> So, Steve, you this is currently planned for 2030, but you're saying it could happen assuming this summer, >> correct? >> And the money for that will come from >> um we haven't we haven't discussed the exact source of that. We do have a couple hundred,000 in the Lakeway fund. Um and then we'll have to look at other funds. >> So, there may be some stuff already in place. >>

021Yeah. >> Okay. But that could be as soon as >> we don't know exactly that number was a kind of we'll see what the number actually is. Yeah. >> And when you say this summer, would that be on the which budget would that be on? Which budget? >> Fiscal 27. >> 26 26 27. >> Yeah. Although it could it could uh work could start toward the end of this fiscal year possibly. We just have to see where things fall timeline for getting work there. If we have a fund balance at the end of this fiscal year, it could be theory to >> or we could just increase fees the transfer stations that >> I'm telling you. >> The user fees on that are just astronomical. >> That's what happens when you don't raise fees for

022a number of years and then you have to raise them and everybody loses it. Is that one of those that there's time enough in the summer to do it so it doesn't interfere with the school year? >> Yes, >> that's that's the thought. Yeah. >> Can we speak more closely to fiscal year 26 specifically the gym floor that they're using in there? What's wrong with the gym floor? I'll I'll ask certainly facilities committee to correct me if I say anything incorrect here, but uh my my understanding is that these these floors have a limited number of times you can sand them and and refinish them and this floor has met that number probably exceeded that number by a couple times at least. This floor has been replaced before. I mean that's not the original floor.

023>> I think one of those floors is going to be offer. >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that was the last replacement from here in the opera house. >> One of them used out of the fire station at one point where they built that. >> Yeah. So that was replace the boilers at the academy. Um we I think one of the things that when I was on the school board um you know they were trying to decommission that building because the third floor and accessibility things like that. So, we're still going to try to use that facility and keep it going, but are we going to reverse anything on the third floor at some point? >> I would say a couple years ago, we had a conversation with the professional team that leverages

024that building talked about the possibility of bringing them in here and talked about some other alternatives. I think there's always a door open to that. But at the time, the sense that the board got was the best course was going to stay where it was. Uh so we continue to invest in that building. But right now, I don't think perhaps from anybody else's perspective, there's a strong justification for investing in in the parts of it that we're not using or don't need to address. Right? So I think as the strategic plan for the district takes shape as other inputs come into view that could change right uh but I don't know that pressing need to change posture on that at the moment but it's still a building that's you know widely used even in the

025summer wherever else you know so it it still has its utility to the restricted to the town and so maintaining the parts of it that are well used and well loved still seems like the right investment for taxers. I'm looking at the 2030 that has 10 million plus um close to $11 million being put into Lakeway as a plan. Has there been any discussion about setting up a capital reserve fund for major renovation? I know we have our lightweight capital reserve fund, but if there's not millions of dollars in it right now. Yeah. >> Then we're not going to be able to do any of these things >> come 2030. >> So is there any >> So I I >> would stress again that this was created in a world where we thought we were

026going to bring forward the new elementary building, right? And I think we need to make adjustments to your point since we've made the decision to forego that. My argument, we haven't talked about this as a board. I'll just give my perspective is that the town, right, meaning the school board, the budget committee, the select board should be putting money into a fund, should be going to taxpayers to put money into a fund that funds the whole CIP, right? So that none of this stuff catches us by surprise the way the sewer plant has, the way all other stuff has come down the pike. We need a town manager to willing to have that conversation, right? and we need to have that especially with the select board and with the budget committee. If we're not able

027to go that route, I do think it's prudent for the school board to explore going in alone for their things. I think you make a great point, but as of yet, we're only, you know, two meetings past deciding to forego the lake piece. So, we haven't we haven't talked about that yet. >> So, I know I always bring this up and I know it's probably clogging a dead horse because the state never has any money for, >> you know, building a, right? But at one point um the there was a kind of a minimum amount um of a project um just so the the state wouldn't provide building aid for basic maintenance, right? And so the threshold was 25% of the cost of new building. So if you reach that level, and I don't know

028if that is appropriate now. I don't know if they have the same thing, but this to me seems to start adding up to at least 25% of a new building that you could apply for building aid and receive what is it 45% 40. But knowing that there's no money in it, but hopefully by 2030, >> maybe there will be. So, I I I just don't want to not look at that. Uh I don't want to put any money on it, but I don't want to ignore it either. So, because that was a possibility of grouping your projects like this at the same time and getting some assistance from the state. So, I'm just putting that out there. >> Is that a different pot of money than the whole new school money? It probably would be,

029but again, um, >> no, I think it's the same thought at the moment and there's nothing in it. >> Yeah. >> At the moment and the five years, like obviously we're we're not planning on doing all these things in year five. It's just a fiveyear CIP. So on that fifth year, we don't want to lose sight of all the things that are outstanding. So, we're not looking to spend millions of dollars in 2030. It's just listing all these outstanding items. >> But on the other hand, if they add up to a certain amount, I I wouldn't see why you wouldn't want to pursue if it's still >> if it still holds true. >> So, especially for these items, that one item could be a million or more, you know, one project >> days where you

030could put 10,000 a year aside. I think but I think the other thing too strategically to keep in mind is a couple of those bigger ticket items >> renovating Lakeway and renovating the gym and stage at Lakeway really only make sense in the context of there not being elementary school. Right. >> Right. So I think that we need some years to go by here to figure out whether that's the case. >> Obviously things like boilers and load issues and structural issues those are going to get addressed regardless. >> Yes. And that's the reason why the state had that threshold because it didn't want to get into >> maintain one of the things that the town and not just not just the schools but the town with all their facilities that we fall short on this

031is speaking from where my facility managers at is your normal rule of thumb for your building maintenance is 1% of what the value is. So, our value by the insurance company for uh this this complex here is $50 million. That means we should be putting $500,000 a year into maintenance for this just for this building. Never mind the academy, never mind lake, never mind the transfer transfer station building, the fire department, the police department. We missed that mark totally. That doesn't mean that that gets spent every year, but that's what keeps everything up to par. And there are other ways of calculating it. That's the way I've been trained and the way I tend to work. Um, but what happens is that number looks ugly and it gets pushed off and then maintenance gets deferred

032and deferred maintenance just cost you way more. It's the it's the worst thing to do is to defer maintenance. So, so I'll get off my soap box, but that's that's the facility management perspective. >> Well, I mean, so the quarterly meetings, um, let's utilize them the way that we really want to utilize them and those discussions were what I had anticipated occurring and we need to get there. We heard on the town side that we need to look at the CIP and hold true to those plans. We just heard that last Thursday. So, we really need to sit down and talk about it. Um, those I don't know if the CIP committee needs to continue on in that regard to have those types of discussions and then bring them to the other groups, but we

033need to think about it. So, if anyone has any thoughts, >> well, I I would endorse what Bill said about maintenance. It's just it's just it's one of those things that it's it never needs to be done today. It's it's important but not always urgent, but it becomes urgent. It's not important to get done. So, you've got to you've got to take care of it. Absolutely got to take care of it. >> I I have to say that, you know, we probably haven't had the people in place that understand the maintenance of buildings. I don't mean just the regular, but you know, the longterm maintenance and so how do we get that? Because just because you're on a board, on a budget committee or on a school board or on a select board, it doesn't

034mean you understand all of that. So, um, we need to have those discussions and figure out how we can understand those. any mechanical equipment is going to help you. If you bend a piece of steel enough, it's going to break for something. It's just it's got to be done. So, boilers are pretty important. So, if that boiler's really reaches age or sometimes the uh refractory in it is just shot, that's got to be taken care of. So, it's So, I understand that this is the plan, the CIP, but where is the is there money set aside for the floor and the ladders and the lighting and the boilers or like it's great we're going over this plan, but what does it really mean? >> Yeah. >> Is there a line item in the budget that

035I missed? Is there a warrant article for these repairs? I'm strictly talking about 26 >> which could strictly include the structural upgrades. >> So you're moving that over. Are you moving anything that's listed in 26? Are you removing anything to adjust for the 400 or do you plan on doing those items as well? What we what we'll likely again the facilities committee will have a lot to say about this and obviously the board will have to consider but we'll probably looking at several pots uh unexpended 10 balances with this year if we have I anticipate we'll have some um and then the capital fund we have the two capital funds which we could draw from uh the lakeway fund as well as our our facilities fund. So yeah, we can a lot of it will

036depend though, frankly, on where we are with the fiscal 26 budgets as we approach the budget. How much because typically I shouldn't say typically, but some past few years two to $300,000 has come out of those funds uh toward special projects, mainly maintenance projects. So that's a there's a strong possibility some of that could come from there. I think really you're looking you should be looking at the 27 column, right? Because our expectation would be that items in the 26 column will be taken care of in this year's budget with unspent funds at the end of this academic year. So typically, at least for the five years that I've been on the board, right, the way it works is we have the warrant articles that seed some of this money. So Patty walked through, I

037think $150,000 right now in appropriation on those two. That increases the balance we can pull from. But also at the end of the year, our BA will sit us down and say, "Okay, here's the pot of money that we think is left over based on positions unfilled or additional funding or whatever the thing may be, right?" And then we take a look at our critical list of projects and say, "Well, does it make sense to use some of this money to attack some of those projects as opposed to giving it back to pay down taxes and just asking for more appropriation in the next cycle?" And so typically at the end of every academic year, we kind of have a list that the facilities committee vets, you know, for the board that says these are

038the things that we think we can go and attack now um and while still giving X back to pay down taxes. So that's typically how it's done, but it sounds like there's a move of foot to recommend that we increase the amount of money that we're seeking through appropriations to put into those funds. Uh so you may see that number go up. >> As far as the facility committee goes, uh on our last meeting we did discuss the new lighting at the high school stage and looking at the budget that we were given when the contract came. There are things that were asking to be pulled out to reduce that number. Um it's also something that we could decide to postpone till 2027. um the gymnasium floor the same way that's something that we can

039flexible on and move. Um yeah, the long short of it is is that if we were appropriating the proper amount of maintenance money each year, we wouldn't be looking at any of these things because they would get done as needed. Um but it's it's a big number to all of a sudden say, "Oh, by the way, we want a $750,000 maintenance budget for the SAU. >> It's sort of typical though. I mean, if we if we look at on the town side, we put $625,000 for the upkeep of of our roads and we put $75,000 towards the upkeep of our sidewalks. It's kind of the same thing that we should be uh oh, I'm getting in tr I'm being censored over here, but go ahead. The difference is and I that those are separate warn

040articles that people can say I think I want to spend our money on that versus a 20 mill $19 million budget and say here here's $19 million spend the best way you can when the the taxpayers don't have any option to say I think we should spend money on that when it comes to the school we don't generally speaking there's what three warrants or something and you go to the town and there's 40 right I'm not. So I I think that there's a happy medium there. I think that the school I would like to So the reason I'm raising my hand to point that difference out is I think it's a big difference to say this is what we think it's going to take to just run the school or run the town and then

041these are the things we'd like to do. do you want to spend the money on doing these things? And the school doesn't generally give the taxpayer that option and so what happens is you have I'm not >> it's not accusatory. >> I think that's quite fair. I mean obviously we present a full itemized budget in our budget hearing that is also presented as a deliberative session. Right. That does break down all of our expenditures. It's not, and I don't think this is what you're saying, but it's not reasonable for us to present a budget that has absolutely no give, right? And so then the board has some discretion at the end of a year to take and look at whatever it was spent. Again, a lot of times it's because we had a teacher resign

042unexpectedly. We didn't pay their salary and benefits. we there were creative solutions leveraged at the SEAU office or in the buildings to account for that vacancy and then we had this money that we had intended to spend that we didn't spend on this thing. I think if we don't find the perfect cavi medium which I know is what you're going for, you run the risk of the opposite end of the spectrum where you itemize everything, there's no slack and then you get hit with a $2 million emergency fee for the for the sewers. You get hit with a $14 million emergency thing. And of course, I I make fun of the the the the the transfer station fees on purpose. This the school district doesn't have recourse like the town does to hide additional fees

043and burdens on taxpayers outside of their budget, right? It's just the budget. It's the budget and the warn articles. We don't have any of that. And I think the level of scrutiny that we receive from the town manager and the budget committee on that front is disproportionate to what the town receives, right? Because they can they can do all this emergency stuff. They can raise all these things, have all these warrant articles, and they can jack up their fees. Meanwhile, we go to a meeting and get our ass kicked because we didn't hit some number that we didn't even agree to hit that we explicitly said, "Hey, by the way, we reject this number." Right? So, I just I I raised that to say that be careful what you wish for. I think I hear

044where you're where you're coming from. I don't think we can operate a district with a budget that has zero slack. I don't even know what the loss is. I assume we're not allowed to like in the operating in the default budget. I assume there's got to be something baked in because that get back quickly because of course too keep in mind that in in a way unlike the town we can have nondiscretionary expenditures forced on us right so if the state decides that these 10 students have these whether it's IEPs or whatever it is and they have this this special education that they are legally entitled to we have to provide it to whether we accounted for it in the budget or not. We're required by law to do that right now. I assume not

045having had any involvement in the way that the state has created RSAs around educational funding, but that's part of the mix. We don't we we don't have that same flexibility as it were. >> I would say that there's a lot of criticism on the town at this point about the different fee structures. Every year I've asked, is um Littleton Water going to raise their fees? And what about the transfer station? Those those things have already always been asked. Um it's just the way things are structured that yes, anything that happens at the transfer station is user fee. Um John and anybody else who lives outside and does not use that, they don't want to be paying for it. And we're even wondering, uh, John and I were looking today, why should everyone else, besides those

046that use the the uh transfer station? >> I'll say, why should I pay? Yeah. Why should Why should I vote for sewage upgrades when I don't use it? >> When he doesn't use it. So, he's forcing the you know, you get the drift. >> I never drove down that road. I shouldn't have to pay to plow it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, charge for >> going back to the structure the at the end of the you've used over the years the school district has used over the years um let's see if I can go back to my warrants here monies to be set aside from the unexpended fund balance and I don't know if you could do that with some of these projects But then um that locks you in, >> right? You got to

047get it. And that's what we talked about Friday with the facilities is like we don't have enough money. Like if I put so much in there this year, I'm going to expend it all. >> So then I have no emergency fund, right? So that's why we were saying the hundred,000 which we just upped. They weren't even doing it prior to when I got here. it. We haven't put enough in there because we have been actively using it too. We haven't been going to the taxpayer for some maintenance stuff that we've been doing that's been costing us 100,000 or what have you. We've been withdrawing actively, but we're not putting enough in to keep an emergency balance in, you know. >> Yeah. Maybe one of the happy paths, John, maybe one of the happy mediums is

048can we can we look at and say as taxpayers >> anything over a certain dollar amount needs to be explicitly appropriated, right? Like whatever the threshold is, right? A million bucks, 2 million bucks, I I worry that under a certain threshold, if you don't have that that sort of litmus test, you get into too much pure democracy, right? Like the school board is elected, right? And all of our meetings are open and public. So at some point if we have to be like, "Hey, we have to change this light bulb in a seven bucks. Are you cool with that?" I know it's not what you're saying, but like that becomes a little bit >> um unmanageable. So like for most of these projects, I think, well, if you don't trust the school board in public

049session to evaluate that, burn the whole thing down, by the way. But with certain things that are a lot more significant, right, the $3 million, the $5 million, the 2.6, six. You know, as a taxpayer, I I not as a member of the board, I wouldn't all be opposed to some sort of threshold that says over a certain dollar amount, it needs to be explicitly appropriated. >> I'm not sure if a dollar amount is the right answer there. And how tight you run that budget, the operating budget, is up to you as a board and whatever you think the taxpayers will approve when it comes time. What I'm trying to get to is I'm going to I haven't there's what three warrant articles and when we're saying well let's put money you know it would

050be wouldn't it be great if we can put money aside for Lakeway we should have a maintenance fund that goes above and beyond or do you want to add 70 $750,000 for facilities maintenance I would want to I would want to see that 750,000 for maintenance as a separate warrant article just like paving gets its own warrant article on the town side. There are state unfunded state mandates on the town side as as well as far as EMS, fire and police that happens to them as well. Not I'm sure not to the same level and urgency that happens to the school because when those usually come out there's a grace period that you essentially get a student dropped on you say you have to spend $100,000 setting this get to placing this student and so

051have an unexpended fund balance but what it takes to operate the SAU should be the operating budget and then improvements like replacing the floor >> then you're running replacing the floor replacing the ing anything that is 100,000 plus then becomes um a warn article. This way it gives the taxpayers some say on how you know to give you some guidance on how to spend the money and yeah of course you keep two $3 million in reserve whatever it takes to get there in case you have that emergency. That's and that I that's why I censored you because I see a big difference between a large operating budget that the board gets to decide and whether they should or not is you know what I think Matt was responding to was is not as much voice

052as I think the taxpayer should have on hey we think you should spend the money here versus there otherwise what happens is we and we end up where we are of, hey, there's this $40 million school that we have to pay. Yes or no? And like I bet there's a certain amount of people that would say, "Let's renovate Lakewood. Should we put $2 million into renovating the cafeteria? Don't forget, we're talking about getting new school like we have been for the last 50 years." So, do you want to spend $2 million on renovating the cafeteria? Okay, then let's start putting, you know, do we want to set up a capital reserve fund for this purpose? And if they want to, then they will. If they don't, then that tells you something. Well, and what makes

053facilities different than anything else? Then why not have the taxpayers vote on every teaching position, every like what why that specific line item? Well, the teacher thing, you'd have to you'd have to really know what the background is of your what you're teaching and all that stuff. I think to let people say, "Oh, we're going to have five things teachers." >> I think there's personnel. I I equate teaching the teaching positions to personnel and I leave administration to manage your own personnel. >> Well, I'm not talking about higher fire decisions, right? But I'm talking about that the quantity and number >> on number of positions, >> right? The number like we're going to have three math teachers here and four like if you're if the logic is that it is unfair to the taxpayers to

054not have a more exacting breakdown and more broad discretion over each individual item in the operating budget of a certain amount. Why draw the line of facilities? >> I've never said a certain >> Okay, period. Forget that. Strike that. Why? Why? Why? Why just facilities? >> Trying to draw the happy medium. I think facilities is a good first step towards that desired happy medium. I will also, you know, you're right to call a person uh people count head count because I think we just had this conversation a couple years ago with the fire um contract for the first time saying let's add a person as part of the contract. And by approving this, you're approving an added firefighter where I think that's the first time that's happened. Otherwise, adding do we want to hire a

055new we want to add to the force of police, fire? I'm not sure if highway has always been. Do you want to add to the force of highway? But I'm quite sure police and fire have been under that same scrutiny of >> I think >> do you approve adding? some of the some of the departments um there are separate warrant articles approving the hire of a new position. I mean I don't want to get into that on the school side but um I guess going back if some of these items are large um ticket items um just I I would think that the people would want to have a say in it um so yeah I kind of support both of you. You don't want to uh the flexibility. You can't take too much flexibility

056away from the boards because then something emermergency comes up, you have no flexibility. And I think um they're trying to determine that on the town side as well because we have capital reserve funds that they're trying to rewrite because the the board is not the select board aren't agents to expand. So if you have an emergency, but you have to wait till March for the voter to approve, right? >> You know, so it just all needs to be fine-tuned. So >> and we we obviously have that recourse, too. When something comes up mid year that we need emergency for, we can schedule a special town meeting just like the town cannon did on the sewer issue, right? So if it was if it was an off cycle thing that couldn't be handled under the appropriated

057budget, it would fall down exactly that path, right? would have a specific meeting after very particular vote on a very particular thing. But I guess one question for Patty and then one followup comment. So I'm looking at the default budget that you passed out or that Sheena passed out. Um there's a line around PL plant operations and maintenance for $2 million. This is the default budget. Is that I mean is that >> is that just based on what prior year was or is that >> where is that ma'am? >> This isn't a default budget. It's in a handout that Sheena gave >> missing >> that says it does say default >> 2026 MSD. There you go. So, does the state does the state require that part of the default budget be itemized for plan operations

058and maintenance or is that >> Absolutely not. Just by function. >> Okay. Uh and then I guess my Oh, Erica is here. And then I guess my um my my follow-up comment I mean I'm just going to restate what I've already said, which is I reject the premise that town's people don't have a say. I reject it outright. They have a say. They elect us. they elect us, they approve the budget, they vote on the budget, they have recourse of the budget hearing and everything else. Um, so I I I sort of there's been a number of times we've had conversations, quarterly meetings even about how we need to have we need to have such and such a group evaluate such and such a thing and we need to make sure there are elect there

059representatives of the taxpayers that are part of that group and I again I think that's what the school board and the and the and the select board are right we're elected by taxpayers. So I think that is a factor. The other thing I would say and I I I do I know John is not saying this but I I think a third certain threshold makes sense and I would be in support of it but absent that this comment is going to sound 80 times more snarky than I mean it. If the budget committee thinks that the town is doing a better job of managing its finances and its buildings and the school board. If the budget committee thinks that the process that is leveraged to create and to vote on the town budget and all

060of its warrants is better than the process that the school district uses, then pursue that. If not, my word of advice would be be careful. >> Go ahead, John. >> So, I got a couple questions. Um, see if I can remember >> should >> So, what I'm having a hard time figuring out where we're going and you know, maybe maybe a these funds that you're talking about for the lakeway improvements. Maybe we do something partial and we bond the rest of it when it comes time to actually jump into it. So, that's a possibility. I I've never resolved that question in my mind whether it's better to spend up front or not. I know John and I have discussed this a few times. >> I'm still not I'm still not settled. >> Um two to

061two to um No, I was just well one that I can remember though. Just wanted to comment when you're talking about teachers don't get too upset. I work for Swiss company and was over there many many many times and some villages in Switzerland vote on retention of a teacher after they've been teaching five years. It's out of the school board's hand and the populace actually votes. Do we want to keep this teacher or not? >> So, so it's kind of and they rever teachers just to say I'll just add that in there. But it's kind of an interesting concept where if the parents and the people in town aren't satisfied, there's a way to get to it. But anyway, they rever teachers. They have statues of teachers in their park. So >> So I know

062some quotes on whether people could become a citizen at the town level, which I think is bizarre. >> There we go. >> They they do that. >> Yeah. I find that just mindboggling. >> Well, I I know of some cases. So >> that's an interesting way of doing things. >> Yeah. The other question is how concerned would should we be with the critical designation for those lakeway improvements? I mean should they be brought in immediately or are if they can wait are they really critical? I think that's something that the facilities committee has to look at now. Um, uh, one of the issues is that obviously the cafeteria is extremely small there and also the gymnasium. Uh, this year there will not be concerts held at Lakeway because we no longer have the capacity for

063all the students and teachers and parents to come. So the schedules have to be redone. So the Lakeway concerts will not be appear later this year. >> Was that last year? >> Yeah. Was it last? Okay. I didn't realize that. >> I think my point is you got to answer that question. >> Yeah. Yeah. So we we've got to look at that. We've got to go back and look at that. Definitely >> because that will determine what we really need to do and how soon. >> Yeah. One of the things the facilities committee in their five-year plan when the when the CIP meeting started, they decided that anything that was over 75,000 was going to go to the CIP. And that's why the gymnasium floor is now on the CIP is um can't remember what

064the other one was. Um >> boilers and boilers. Yeah. >> Um we were already planning on how to work those in with the budget. anyway and what we had what we were looking at for funds at the end of the year. Um and that's how we would have tried to address those things. The funds weren't there then we would say okay we're going to go for a warning. So um because we've decided to not pursue a new Lakeway Elementary School at this time we do have to go back and look and see what we have. Safety is always number one with the facilities committee. >> Right. No, hands down. If there's something that's unsafe, money goes to that first and foremost. >> Um, one, sorry, one last thing. >> Is St. Rose the old St.

065Rose school is that entirely written off as a solution in the elementary school plan or not? >> I went there and look at me. >> Is it entirely written off? No. But but but keep I would say nothing is entirely written off but at this point in time with the committee dispand that's not moving forward with anything. It's not something that's currently being um considered but it was part of the process of evaluating options for Lakeway. And I would say no. But at this point, nothing's totally written out. >> John, >> to answer your I I just when he was talking, I there's a there's a five-year plan for facilities and there's not a five-year plan for anything else. >> That's why that's what is the five-year plan. Well, I'm saying the C. Yes, I'm

066referring to the CIP as a five-year plan because on that we agree like I I feel strongly like if we're going to that that my issue with I I don't think I got to stay long enough in the last quarterly meeting to to share this, but my after Tony gave this presentation I I think the CIP group did good work. I didn't go to any of the meetings, so I'm not talking about myself. But it doesn't matter if we don't make it matter. And the way we make it matter is by as taxpayers appropriating money that funds that CIP and then leveraging the existing existence of that CIP to appropriate the right or assess the right property tax and taxes on new entrance into the town, folks that are expanding or opening up new businesses

067or whatever the case may be. So I totally agree with you on that, right? that that the things that are within the CIP, if we're going to make them real, make them real, right? I 100% agree with that. >> I think all of us are basically saying that and we're hearing that from the town side as well. I mean, that was part of the discussion last Thursday. So, we're we're coming closer together on that. We just have to figure out how to >> But there's a lot of stuff I don't understand like say we do that, right? What's the governing what's the governing process to decide how you can disperse from that fund, right? Is it a shared fund, district and town? Is it two separate funds? Who decides how money gets released? Right? Because

068like Bill is saying, let's say, okay, let's say we appropriate on the CIP a certain dollar amount based on this plan. But then something happens and something emerging happens and we have to fix it right away. And it doesn't cost as much to fix as the things that we had in the plan for that year. Can we can we do it? Who decides? Do we have to like >> ask the town manager real nice to like how does that work? And so these are the kind of things that I think I'm sure somebody has answered, right? That but that we have to work out. >> I do keep >> John. I would want them separate too. >> No, no, it's just my turn to be it's just my turn to be snarky. Snarky Matt. um

069only because if the if the issue here is that the the Lakeway gym is not and stage is not big enough to have you know once or twice a year gatherings when everybody gets together um I'm not saying this as a taxpayer I'm just saying this as a I hope sensible person so what is the problem in going to another place with a bigger facility you know >> yeah those are the kinds of questions that we could have on a case by case basis as we're talking about this stuff too, right? Which I think there is value in that and I do think it would come up in the normal course too, right? Like say let's say that we don't fund the CIP in the right way. If we're going to have that money set

070aside in an operating budget for a given year, I would hope we'd have that discussion at the budget hearing. We'd have that discussion at the deliberative like why do these things matter? Why are we making this case? >> So I'm I'm quite nervous. And the reason being is Diane's going to go south. >> Warm weather. >> Do you mean that literally or figuratively? >> Literally. >> And and doing that, when's our when do we have to have our um vote on what we feel about this budget? >> We Well, it's up to them. >> Um >> usually when we finalize it, I send it out to you and um I don't know. You guys either had a separate meeting or you just did it. >> But there's a it's driven by dates and so much

071lead time, right? So what's the lead time? >> Well, last year or maybe it wasn't last year, but in the last couple of years, um you you finalized everything your your warrants and then when we met, >> we didn't meet as a group. we just met and I think Steve joined us um in order to answer any questions that we may have, followup questions we may have or Patty. Um so that's what we've done it. It was in January. It was in January. Yes. So >> was it was it like eight weeks preceding the town meeting? >> Oh um the last date is January 20. >> That's what I'm asking right there. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Jan um January 22nd. I have to have everything posted by the 26th. >> Yeah. >> I believe the

07222nd is the last day that we can accept um any petitioned articles or any additional articles. So I would anticipate that this board is going to have their warrant articles their warrant articles by the next meeting finalized. >> Yeah. So is that date >> are you quoting last year's date or is it still as a back off from deliberative session? >> What no on what this year's calendar says? >> Okay. So January 22nd. >> And you think when's your next meeting in January? >> Um the 5th. >> The 5th. >> Yeah. >> So you you most likely will have Right. We've got to talk about it during our meeting tonight to figure out what is that figure gonna be. Um, >> so if you would just let us know and then we because >> yeah,

073we can schedule it with Steve and with you in order to answer any questions and any of board members if they should choose don't want to come um then we can vote on it. We did that >> previous years. >> We'll probably have all the questions answered by >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean truly I think our we will we'll have it all by then but I think our >> main question was do we >> just increase the unreserved balance amount or do we actually have an article with an appropriation to to bump up that balance in the capital visit. That's really like I think where we were at. But that that question wouldn't affect the numbers of the operating budget which we still need the budget committee to vote on. Right. >> Right. The operating

074number would stay the same. It would be a separate article. It would be a separate article >> a separate article for that. So would that be using the um >> well that's what's that's what we were trying to weigh like what if we don't have fund balance because we're trying to get that structural job paid for >> and we don't want to empty out balance right in the capital reserve. So if we don't have enough fund balance to put in there from the warrant article where does that leave us right we're not going to gain anything. So, but if it's an appropriation, it's a yes or a no, right? >> Yes. Right. Okay. So, you have some work to do. >> You had a question on supplies. Hopefully, you got there. >> I did. So,

075I was looking through the sheet that has all of the different one for different things. And um >> full disclosure, I was running through it and taking a closer look at anything that had more than 10% increase. Um, and then I was reading the explanations for the ones that had them. So, for example, first page halfway down, water and sewer. There's nothing you can do about that. So, it just is what it is. And it's apparently it's going up 24%. So, you're further. And then the storm removal, same kind of thing. I, you know, what? Let's not remove the cloud. That's not an option. So, right >> there we go. So, and then um building security. I read that. That's about cameras. Okay, that makes sense. And then um down to the special education tuition

076going up 29% and I read that one and you know that was mandatory so nothing you can do about that one. But so then I got to the general supplies that went up 10%. And it says where it breaks it out but I'm inflation isn't 10%. I mean inflation has been running rampant but this year it feels like it's red gone back to closer to normal rates. So why the increase of 10% on building supplies? That's what I'm trying to get. >> Item J for those of you following the law. >> Yeah. Well, I can tell you specifically on the facilities portion. Um we've been going over budget. We've been going over budget and um we just decided Dale's like we're going to have to rightsize it. We've got to budget what they what they

077are because other lines they're just there is no room. You know what I mean? You're at that point that there's no room anywhere else. We need to budget >> for the full amount of what we've been spending the last couple couple years. um adult ed that one I can tell you is specifically that we've lost funding and what used to be supplied by the state we no longer receive. So in order to continue that program we're having to fund it through the through the general fund. We do receive revenue to offset it. Um but we don't know where that what's going to happen with that. So in order to continue it we've got to fund put money in the general fund. Um, let's see. Vocational is a change in programs that we've had that um,

078Michelle has swapped some things around, maybe reduced in equipment. Her budget itself didn't go up. So, she reduced in equipment and increased in supply and that is the same um, for the elementary. Was the elementary listed on there students? Yeah, that was an increase, but they decreased their equipment. So some of these you see it under that particular object of expenses but what you don't see is that they've actually decreased another area um because none of my departments have increased except for facilities you know what I mean when they showed you their presentations um their budget that they have internal control on supplies and books and equipment and stuff they didn't increase um they were level, but facilities we've just it's disposal has gone up immensely. Disposal that is it's crazy. Um and supplies we've

079just been going over budget and you know Dale's trying his best, but I'm like you got to rightize it. We got to budget what we're actually spending. >> That happens. And you can see in the um the lines about propane and heating oil, there's some significant differences in there. So, let's hope our averages are accurate, right? We've only had the propane boilers for a couple years. We think we got it now. So, things are we decrease, right? We're using less than what they had estimated, which I guess is a good thing. Maybe we're burning more efficient than he expected us to. But >> I'm I wasn't looking for where they went. I wasn't interrogating where they went down. >> No, no, but I want you but those guys >> But those guys take it serious,

080you know? Like they like to have their department level funded, right? So if I want to do this this year, then I'm not getting this, you know? And that's how our administrators treat it. >> Cheeky. Marky and cheeky. That's what we >> I think it's important to note too the way what Patty manages the budget. She's very disciplined. It's like we don't so we keep we don't move things around per se. We spend things where they're spending. If it goes over the budget line, it goes over the budget line. But we know as we're building a budget, as we're managing a budget, this area, okay, maybe this is a one-time thing. No, maybe this is something that needs to be maybe that area needs to be raised in another year. But but the way she

081does it, that methodology keeps it in line with what we know what her actual expenses really are given certain categories. We're not playing the shell game here just to make it look a little better and avoid cranking things up there. >> And you don't either. >> Yeah. You don't you don't know what your actual start doing. Okay. So, where are we? >> I'm looking ahead to our agenda and in new business, we have an item that says caffeine pouches and I'm wondering if there are samples to keep us, but definitely not. I don't know what that's about, but I guess I'll find out. >> Substituting for a tobacco. So that's it for the school board at this time. Do you have more I mean for the budget committee at this time? >> That's up to

082you all. >> Do you have any more questions um comments? I think uh one of the things that is kind of a common theme from listening to your budget and listening to the town budget is how how can we be more efficient? because we're we're looking at um trying if if Littleton is remaining to be an affordable town because we here on the town side um about offering these services or you know that the town explodes to 20,000 people during the day and you still have to have fire and police and everything else but it's still a small community that has to pay for that amount on the school side. We hear that the U population, student population is crumbling and how can we continue to provide this the same kind of courses and and

083everything and um where can we be more efficient? How can we work with other area schools around us? Is there any new information about or any plans of um continuing your talks with surrounding schools about shy programs or or is it still it's hard because I I think you're right, Matt. It takes two to want that conversation and if another school district doesn't want that conversation, it's really hard to to um you know get them excited about it. But I didn't know if there what was happening. >> Yeah. So, let me let me address those in reverse order. Starting with the last person. Um, yes, we're still exploring all creative options for I guess what ostensibly is triggered by our anticipated superintendent vacancy. So, using that as kind of the the the reason to have

084some of these discussions and to explore some of these things. We are um the board at the end of our last meeting formed a superintendent study group uh to evaluate the options and to give a recommendation to the full board as to what it should do. Should it pursue hiring another full-time superintendent, part-time superintendent, Portchester merger, one of these things? Um, and that's uh Travis and I, uh, Patty and Melanie Harkas, the assistant principal at Lakeway. And so, uh, we are likely meeting later this week to talk that through. Uh, I've continued to field more and ideas um, from me personally and my capacity as chairman of the board, uh, from other districts, none of which I've rejected, all of which I'll be bringing to this group for further discussion and evaluation. So, yeah, it's

085on the board. Um, yes, sir. >> Matt, just on that point, >> um, I think you just said what I was out thinking, but I want to be sure. >> Um, it's first of all, I think I think Steve is terrific and I glad he's been here. If he's retiring, he's retiring. So, I'm just wondering about it's kind of an opportunity to reach out to other districts and see if you can consolidate that superintendency some >> and by doing that it may lead to other opportunities. And as you know, as our population shrinks in our school systems, um pretty soon we can't offer what we should be offering to kids. So that's that's that's the gist of my question. I think you answered it the way I >> Yeah, we we we are trying and

086will continue to try. >> Okay. >> Right. But it um how do I say this in a in a politically correct way? At the moment, the biggest hurdle is not the board of this district. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. at the moment um to work backward through your other comments. I just I think we need to be careful about the narratives we tell ourselves. Right. So Steve had put up on the screen during our first two sessions with you some comps. I'm going to forget exactly when those comps started to present day that let's say it was like a 10 or 12 year cut, right? When we looked at budget, we looked at staff and we looked at student headcount. Right? And if you look at those three numbers in the aggregate from the first

087year on that comp to what is being proposed for the next year, you see yes a 17% reduction in students, but that's coupled with a 12.5% reduction in staff and an 8% reduction in inflationadjusted operating budget. So yes, the number of students has gone down. number of staff has also gone down not one to one but within range and the budget itself has gone down inflation adjusted. So, I just think I obviously as a taxpayer want my taxes to not keep going up and ideally I would love them to be zero. Sincerely, but like the path to getting there when you talk about how can we be more efficient, that's absolutely the right question. I would just say my personal journey in being on the board for the last five years of looking at the

088budget five times is you don't have a lot of options, right? if we pursue this shared superintendent services, but we were talking about thus being too much out of terms. We were trying to crunch numbers on an agreement that was even more broad than that, >> right? And and at best as I was told, we haven't gone further yet and maybe there's more sharper in the pension. It's 400 grand. Now, that's not nothing obviously, but in the context of a $19.3 million operating budget, that's not going to make or break anybody's property tax. That's not a reason for not pursuing it. But I'm just saying even the point that I'm trying to make is even if the the district was massively efficient, like the model across the country for efficiency, what are the things that

089we go after? a little bit less administrative overhead, maybe a reduction in class sizes, but even then you're not looking at massive gains. Maybe bringing everybody under one roof in one building, but your operating expenses there, do they really marginally shift? So like it's not like my point is we could maybe take a 19.3 million budget max paid to 18.3, right? Or I don't know 17.8 8 like pick a number but it's not 10 million is my point right and then when you stare in the face of everything else that we are accountable for have to account for inflation all the thing that continues to amaze me the most as a board member the things that we're required to pay for that we say it right like these placements and the special education stuff and

090that continues to bother my mind so like I just think that's not to say that it's hopeless let's say that we we got to be careful in the narratives of intelligent I hear everybody say headcount or student population is dwindling. Yes, but nobody says the yeah but other sides of that, right? And I think that um I'm biased of course, but I think we've been very careful about how we've tried to manage the budget over the course of the last many years. >> I'll give you the Yeah. But yeah, but that is no longer critical issue. The critical issue is the dynamics of the school system. things are too small and we need to get more kids together in classrooms to make them more dynamic. >> I agree with that too. >> And I I

091think I think that we're past the cost per whatever >> consideration. I think now we're into the area of we're just not capable of producing the dynam dynamics necessary for >> and I glad you said that. I brought that up two meetings ago. I think the most exciting thing about sharing services and potentially consolidation to me I'm more interested as a parent less interested as a taxpayer because I think the benefits to a taxpayer is marginal but the benefits to the students could be significant. >> Exactly. I think that's what we're looking at too. I mean with the decrease um you know to keep it vibrant um because you can you're going to have to invest anyways. How can we keep it vibrant and how can we be efficient in doing that? >> The amount

092you have on the revenue, excuse me, on page 99. >> Okay. >> Is that money that they've actually committed to or do you know? >> No, I I have a crystal ball. >> Did you know that? >> Yeah. No, they are. >> How is it? >> That's truly based on estimates that I've been um given. by the department of ed and then I look at like how many kids we have have in um out in town you know that they're are paying tuition you know so it's truly truly that but I'm pretty conservative well I just couldn't make 13 million if if the the town's taxes were paying that to you would make a big difference to 7 million bats in Right. >> Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And not Yeah. Can you imagine what the tax

093bill would be on that? >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> So, people do see, you're right. They see the 19 million because they have to give us permission to spend that, >> but ultimately the taxes raised are based on 13. >> But those are numbers looking at, right? It makes you guys look bad. >> Yeah. But that we have deliberatives. We have all these public meetings and we have delivered it. So, >> and I have to post everything too, right? >> Yeah. >> So, everybody is probably running to the town office to look and >> come to the deliberative session and see how packed this is. >> Yeah. >> Well, everybody's at the games. I mean, that's that always that's just me. Everyone turns out for the sports. Maybe we should have

094a screen in the background rolling with all this type of information that people could be reading. I I don't know. I mean, you try to be creative, but if people aren't interested, they're not interested, you know. And >> yeah, it's hard to have a participative democracy when people don't participate. >> Yeah. Any other questions from budget committee? Any question? >> Steve could ask us to consider a mandatory mask mandate again. That turns a lot of people >> or consider um cutting a sport every every month. >> You'll have lots. >> It's true. the important >> just one thing if I might add uh the budget the quarterly budget uh meeting is coming up in January on the the third Wednesday and so um I know we briefly talked about it last time but we we'll

095be putting together an agenda and obviously uh what you guys get out of it is what you put into it. So, I appreciate you getting um your um agenda items after you discuss it and fine-tune it. >> Yeah, we discussed it at the end of the last meeting. I don't think we'll be adding anything to it. I'll get that over to you. It's the 21st. >> Yes. Reaching out as you know, maybe after the holiday and just to see where that is. Dan has already extended the invitation to our elected representatives and senators and getting responses back. So, um, >> we're just together. >> All right. >> But it's not just what we put into it, by the way. It's what we all do together, >> right? >> And it's it's what we all do

096together. >> You know me, I get yelled at for yelling at people. if I'm the only one. And that's one thing if nobody agrees with me, but it's another thing entirely if people agree. We're not all saying the same thing all. >> All right. Well, thank you very much. We see a room for us to leave. >> Yeah. >> You're free to stay. >> Boys game's just starting. >> Did you say caffeine pouches? >> Yeah. I don't know what it's about. >> He wants to skip right. >> I'm going to find out here in a moment. Well, I got to hike to my car. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. >> I got I got one. >> Not as many as usual. >> Participatory democracy. Thank you. >> Thank you. You're >> welcome. >>

097Yeah. Remember when I very specifically said I didn't want to be chair and >> you guys didn't >> believe you. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Um All right. All right. Well, we're still in public session. >> I don't think we can talk about the next three things without Steve, so we'll wait for that. >> That's how the caffeine pouches, too. I >> Heck yeah. >> Oh my gosh. Did you Google it? >> I did. No, I didn't. >> Well, they have some caffeine pouches. They have like the Zins that are caffeine and >> like powder. >> Is it powder? >> Yeah. But what I want to know is how do you ingest it? Sublingual probably very vascular under your tongue. Some sort >> of powder. >> It looks like it comes in like a It

098looks like it did. >> So is it ask if the board test these out? Is that >> should point out that we're in public? Can't vote on something that you don't truly know. >> Yeah, you got to get that real experience. >> But don't you have to be 21 to buy them? >> I am over 21. >> Caffeine for caffeine. >> I don't know. I think you would drink >> but every that's what I was wondering there caffeine without nicotine. >> Oh. Yes. >> I thought our calendar, our school calendar is all >> we haven't yet. You bet your head. >> I thought we were the CT. >> Yeah, they have to be right now. >> All right. So, we're gonna go we're gonna we're gonna resume here. >> Yeah, we're going to resume here.

099Uh we're gonna jump right in. Uh, new business section 4 item B >> the calendar. >> We we just did some preliminary work. We have met with the North Country superintendents and especially the the region three superintendents those are the CTE or CTE consortium. So we have a leadership team meeting again this this uh this week Thursday. So I don't have anything for you tonight. I I plan to bring a proposed draft on the 5th though. >> Okay, any questions on that? Parking in the CTC lot. >> I can say something that we want >> park there right now. I want to post that unauthorized vehicles or no overnight parking. >> Oh. >> Um will be uh towed at your expense and posted because we have people that live in the apartment buildings and surrounded

100houses that think that our parking lot is theirs. And then when our plow trucks come in, >> it's it's not so bad in the summer or when there's no snow on the ground, but when there's snow on the ground and we're trying to plow, there's two full air. We can't plow one and two, they're taking spaces that one, two, staff. So, um >> I see a bunch of head nuts. >> Well, we need a sign at the SAU office also. >> Yes. I see a bunch. >> Why Why do we need to tell you to do that? >> Well, I don't want to assume that you guys are okay with it. We just want to make sure. >> Park the van in Whitefield when you ask. >> We did look into it to ask with

101the police department then that we can post as long as it's posted that unauthorized vehicles will be towed at owners expense. Then the tow companies will come in. They will tow it. They will infound it until someone pays the bill to get their own vehicle up, but they can't continue. We shouldn't allow them to continue to park in our parking space because otherwise where's the staff? In fact, >> I see four of us nodding and one of us nodding in spirit. So, I would say go forth and do. But I would challenge the policy committee to look at is it prudent for the board to adopt a policy around parking on its property that just specifies that. Yes. The only other thing I would do is I maybe get legal opinion on the we these

102are public parking lots because school buildings are public buildings. >> Just make sure we're not crossing a a line that's not appropriate. But I would support it as long as legally we can post that. >> So legal get it done draft policy. We can all sort of sign off on that. >> Good. >> Caffeine pouches. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Bill. >> Just thought um If we can't do that, can we do snowband? >> At a minimum, we should be able to do that because we know the town does that. >> Yeah. Right. >> Well, you shouldn't just be even though a lot is public, you shouldn't be able to do that. >> No, I disagree with you, but I think we should at least check out. You can't you can follow the town on that.

103But the other one, I'm not opposed to it. I just think we need to check legally. Make sure we can >> check legal. Get it done. >> I suspect it's very legal, but we can find out. >> Caffeine pouches. >> We're ready to test them out. >> Yeah. I got a memo. You got a memo from Al. I mean, the essence of it is that all read in our student behavior expectations, discipline code, use or possession of marijuana or nicotine pouches as a major violation. consequence would be an inschool or out of school suspension for up to five days police notification or referral to SAP. Elizabeth High School Des Bronson schools we have seen an increase in student use of of caffeine pouches. Although these pouches are not intended for sale to minor, our students

104are purchasing them locally and online. Our recommendation is to add the use or possession of nicotine pouches to our student behavior expectations and discipline code under the major offense along with other types of pouches. The rationale for this is we have no way of determining the types of pouches one from another. >> We will notify students, parents and guardians. >> Just be a coffee addict with a normal person. So, does the board need to adopt a policy or just give its agreement? >> Just give this this would be this would be a a modification to the student handbook, >> right? >> That was approved back in August. So, if the board is okay with this, we'll make this change to student handbook. Bottom line, we we don't we don't have a lab. We can't test

105stuff. We can't tell if it's this, it's that. It's the other. Any questions? I think we'll probably look for a motion to approve the proposed amendment to the handbook as presented. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I opposed same. Motion carries 5. Anything else under new business? We'll move then to unfinished business. All right. >> Well, we I I know Rudy has a question that we should bring up maybe now or in public input. So, he had he had before he uh had come tonight, he had asked he presented me with a letter. I think he's looking to um try to establish a TurningPoint USA chapter at the high school. And I think Steve presented you with a I don't know if it's a proposal or a letter

106or what. I just don't know if you want to speak to what the current >> assessment or thought on that is. Yeah, there's a process that we'll we'll go through um and and follow for any kind any kind of a club student organization. So, we'll start there. And there's a there's a pretty I know the organization itself has a very clear set of guidelines that they require schools to go through if they're going to consider establishing a chapter. >> Okay. >> So, we'll work I'll work with the administration. We'll report back to the board. >> Okay. Committee reports that negotiations not meeting facilities. >> Okay. And the old business with facilities, the structural engineering study for the second floor as of last Friday was about 40% complete. And the engineering designs uh and study on

107the growth group was about 25% complete. As I said earlier, they expect to have the report to the facility committee by January 16. Um the Lakeway shipment is is well underway. We're still waiting on some parts to come in the doors. Um but it's uh well underway as far as that goes. Uh we did receive an updated uh quote on the cooling system that we need in the IT room. Um because Dale went through and did some uh information gathering, sent it back to VHB and they found out that basically the heat dissipation off the equipment in there was less than what they had calculated. So we could go with a smaller system which was another $1,000 less. Um we have um put the money onto the table. My request that we as a board

108vote on this, I'd like to see it approved because with the prices and the way everything goes, if if we lock in on the price now, um we don't have to necessarily do the work now, but >> lock it now so that things go in the spring whenever they want to sign contract. Um the fire department uh did complete their inspections um uh on Lakeway and the high school and the academy and there was just some housekeeping bindings on. So there was nothing nothing serious. Um we did discuss u facilities budgets. Um, big part of it was obviously what I had mentioned tonight about the amount of monies that we put into our funds for building maintenance, which is way shy of what it needs to be. Um, really we should be using 1% as

109a rule of thumb. Uh, so that's something we need to discuss as a board to see whether we want to vote to increase that appropriation being a tough year. Um, didn't understand why people would be opposed to that. the uh new lighting and equipment. Dale has gone back to the vendors on that asking to take out the the curtains because the curtains in the stage are not that old and that was part of the replacement cost. So, he's looking to get that done. Um and then the um that's a CIP project as well as a replacement and we may or may not want to hold off on those warrants for this upcoming year anyways. >> Right. And that's what we did talk about shifting the CIP back one year just because the structural project at

110Lakeway would be happening this summer. So, we're not sure what that price is going to be, you know, we're saying 400, you know, but we're not sure what that price is going to be. So, and as for the um capital reserve amount, we're not sure if it should be a fund balance amount or if it should be an appropriation. Meaning should you keep it no less than 1% as a balance or should you >> Well, I mean we were talking about that with Bill as a guideline. I mean I don't think any of us are like stuck to that. >> What's the total property value for the four buildings? You said 50 for here but >> yeah not for all four. >> That would be good to know. So is it one of those things

111where like maybe we talk about it at our next meeting? We can we can, but I'm I'm hoping that we're gonna finalize our warrant and you guys sign off on it. Um, >> but sorry. So, if we're if you're looking for us to increase the capital reserve fund amount by 1% of the building's value, what's that number? >> I was just going by the high school. So meaning 500,000. >> Yeah. Well, I thought that was a lot to ask in one year period. Normally ask >> I thought 100. We just upped it to 100 this past year. So >> from 50. >> Mhm. >> So we Yeah. I mean I thought 500 was a lot to ask and do we go? >> So you're essentially asking us to prevote on a war article that we're

112going to have to vote on later on. >> Well, I've got to post it. >> That's basically what you're asking, right? >> Yeah. You're asking, right? >> Well, I want to have somewhat of an idea because I've got to bring a warrant here at the next meeting. >> I don't think you need a vote from us now because we're going to have >> No, no, no. I think the question is, is the board amendable to the idea of significantly increasing by some factor to some amount, >> right? Right. >> The amount that we typically place on that warrant, >> right, >> for this March, >> right? We're looking for general consensus, >> looking for just feedback. >> Yeah, I think it's a good idea. It shows that we're being fiscally responsible for our future needs.

113>> Let's be realistic. If we don't know what that structural cost is going to come in at, we know we're going to need it. That's that's the cost of not having a new school is having to pump a lot of money into keeping these schools safe for our kids. Do we have details on how many items at least for this for the facilities and for the equipment that we've dipped into it? Because we've also gone in and used some funds and then backfill >> versus if we're just putting money into it and not touching it. >> Yeah, we have information. Actually, I created that um >> for Steve a couple months ago every year what we've used. And we've also been instructed by the by the budget committee that if we're going to put money

114into it, we need to use those funds. >> So, so >> we need it's okay. So, we can't have our cake and eat it too. We need to if we're going to put money into it and not touch it for the five years down the road we have to spend it, then they have to support us not using those funds. But historically, we put money into it. They've turned around and say, "Why aren't you spending out of it?" Now we spend out of it. We don't have them built up because we've been asked to spend from them. >> So you can have it both ways. Unless we're going to designate a capital fund for capital spending five years down the road for Lakewood, then we need to create a capital. We need to create a

115capital fund that specifically designates that. >> But we're not asking for that. No, >> we're just asking for to have a reserve fund that I think we talked about a million dollars ultimately because we want at least a half a million in there for an emergency. >> And then that other amount is to cover that $400,000 that we're saying over the next three or four, five years, we definitely know of items that are going to be that amount. So, you know, we can't say that and then only put 100,000 in, right? because we're never going to gain enough to even pay for one $400,000 project. >> I would say if you could find I'm I join Erica and Travis and their support, but I would go all the way up to 1% of the full

116value. Again, let's say it's 750. I think the environment is right because of the sewer issue because of the fact that we're not moving forward with lightway. Let's start making that expectation explicitly. Every year we're going to ask for one 1% of the value of the properties. And are you talking appropriation or are you talking fund balance >> appropriated into the capital reserve fund >> because this will be our last year that I have um 260 this our last payment our bond payment is in this coming fall. So this is my last time that the 260 plus interest is in the budget. So next year when we're doing this, our budget is naturally going to decrease that amount. >> So I would be in support of saying 250 next year. I mean, sorry, not 250,

117an additional 250. So say 750. It's what I'm picturing. Like we're losing this. We want to take that and put it toward capital reserve for 750 next year. But you guys, it's your budget. The thing you got to remember too, if you get if you let's say let's say you say we want we want to kick up to 500,000 you you and that's okay, but you got to realize those other capital funds are probably not going to get anything then because it goes in the order that it appears on the on the on the on the ballot. So you got to remember that as well. >> We'll just put them first. >> If we're going to have a huge one like 500,000 first, >> right? Yeah, they're lightweight special ed. That's just something to be

118aware of. That's all that's the downside of >> putting it. But I I >> But I Yeah, >> I don't think it's a bad idea. We need to kick it up some. >> I mean, you I mean, >> I mean, worst case scenario, right? We don't fund it all the way, I guess, right? If it's number three and it's fund balance, >> what would be the distinction between capital reserve and district equipment? Was there between facility? We're talking about facilities. >> Facilities are facilities. equipment is like the truck, the tractors. >> The vans. >> Yes. The vans. >> I mean, I look, I just think >> if if we're going to have an interesting deliberative look, we our aside from lightweight, our stuff gets passed by a twothirds margin all the time. >> All the

119time. >> Not saying we can take that to the bank. If we're going to get a contested deliberative, I'd rather start that number where we think it's going to be, okay, and have it come back in deliberative than start at 500,000 and have it be clawed back to 200 >> and have biller than 40 million >> and have billath%, right? There's a rhyme or reason. We're not just 40 million. That's how math works. >> Make a case like if we're making the case that we're basing it off of the industry best practice, put the best practice on the back and see what happens. >> Okay. Well, especially in this climate of the courthouse and they didn't do that and we've been instructed explicitly by those guys to stay on top of maintenance with Bill's experience

120in this be a good one maybe to talk about it because he said it should be 1%. This is what standard industry we are falling way short of that. So you're looking at three quart million dollars >> or whatever 1% whatever the >> I will still >> Oh yeah and I'm just saying >> again I think we have to be careful about the narratives we tell ourselves our budget has gone down in inflation adjusted amount we that that my frustration with our friends at the budget committee is I wanted to look at them and say do you think we're doing a terrible job or not because if you think we are I don't agree with you >> and if you think we're not then Stop asking these questions at a certain level. >> 74.5% of

121the budget is uh the salary and benefits which is contractually and we're cutting that too. We have only have so much to work with and I think we're doing a very good job. >> I happen to agree but good for you and I I guess but like it's it's >> okay. I hear you. >> I hear the directive. >> You know what? Bill's idea. It's his fault. He's the one that always No, he came up with the >> Yeah, >> the 1%. Because we're just like, what do we do? >> Because we probably will get caught to a point where >> we can reduce that. >> Yeah, we're going to reduce it. So, it's like, okay, we don't need, you know, we go through 750,000 every year for the next three, four years and then

122all of a sudden we only spend 300,000, right? >> So, that's we go back to the taxpayers and say, building still worth, we still need that 750,000, so let's put it in there. Then you've got everything covered. >> Well, you do you do you do get a measure of what of what uh they were talking about tonight though um that John was talking about in the the voters having say yes, we approve this kind of expenditure. It's not specific, but but it's I mean to an item, but it is specific to an area versus end of year un unencumbered funds being spent in theory on whatever the board approves and wishes to do that's in the budget anywhere they could spend those funds on. could spend it on whatever versus in this case it would

123be dedicated facility. >> So what so is it facilities in general is that or or lakeway specifically because what happens in >> general >> it's going to be facilities general district facilities is what it's called we we should look at well how does that number compare to what a bond payment would have been? Well, the first initial bond payment was like 988,000 because it was only one interest. >> There was one interest payment only. >> The third >> one interest payment only. >> So that's just the thing to keep in the back of our minds for the delivery. >> Okay. What else from the facilities committee? >> Uh the last thing was that Dale had noted that Lakeway uh is due for its uh renewal for uh operating facility inspection. Uh the DOE is aware

124that they are behind because that was supposed to be done in June of last year and he has been in contact with them and they said yeah we know uh maybe this spring. >> So there was one thing in the request to vote around the a quote from VHV for the >> for the IT IT pooling system. >> Yeah. >> Do we want to take that up? >> Yes, please. >> Was that vetted run through the facilities committee? >> Yes. I think that's what Bill was referring to. >> Okay. Got it. Sorry. I've gotten distracted by all the all the money Bill wants us to spend. Um, so we'll look for a motion to approve the quote from BHV in the amount of $18,47 to replace the high school IT room pooling system. >> Second.

125>> Any discussion? All those in favor? I >> oppose and abstaining. Motion carries 5-0. Anything else for the facilities committee? >> No. >> Just excited builds on >> amazing. I'm excited. All right. Policies. Nothing on the docket. I don't think >> Sorry. >> Do we need to make a motion? >> No. To me, that's the that's the warrant article, right? So, >> we'll have Patty do some math, report back to us, and then when we vote for the warrants, we'll vote for warrants. >> Uh, student rep report. There is none. Superintendent report. >> Okay. Pretty brief. Uh Trevor Simino, who's a uh a student who attends White Mountain Regional High School, uh comes over here for Auto Tech, received a nice little scholarship of $10,000. Um Michelle and uh and uh Gee and Sam and

126and Trevor went to Laconia last week where he was presented with that the award and he can spend it on scholarship for >> for college. He's he's been accepted to White Mountain Community College in his diesel program, but it came from New Hampshire um auto dealership association. So, um Mike Cop from Ford um presented that scholarship. Um but it was it was the biggest scholarship of the night and that is um eight students from around the state received scholarships that even Trevor received the largest scholarship. It was nice to see in North. >> So that's outstanding. Um tomorrow we're we're doing some work with the state DOE. Our title programs are undergoing monitoring. Basically, they're asking for evidence that um not on the fiscal side. The fiscal side is done and and find the programmatic

127side. Did we do the right processes as part of putting those funds together and programs together? Then the other thing I do want to bring up is a frequent topic and one we're still not I think is still a a moving target and that's open enrollment. um North Country superintendents when they met uh we hosted here last week actually there's a lot of a lot of questions still a lot of I guess uh fear uncertainty unknown and that that's a that's a big one I know that the couple of the North Country soups are going to go to a a meeting tomorrow with hosted by Drummond Woodson and uh I reach out to them and we'll get the information back from them to see if there's anything any any difference any change in advice from

128the the legal end of things for for schools to think about because we talk about warrant articles that's one of those things that uh you know I didn't think we would probably pursue or I would I would recommend we pursue and I still don't this point uh but uh you know the legislation that may or may not be coming that mandates it for everybody aside Right. Uh the law, the current law does stipulate that any any school can become an open enrollment school. Uh but that has to go as a warrant article. It has to be approved by the the town. Uh because it does imply an added expense, more students coming without any guarantee of revenue because as it is now, you can't necessarily charge those students. that will change under an open enrollment

129a new bill, but that's the way it sits right now. So, just want to update you on it. It's not a dead issue even. I thought it was something we would probably wouldn't have to deal with at all this year, but we may have to one way. Any questions anybody has? And I will be sending you out. I I'm sure you'll get something from me via email following what what information I gather tomorrow from some of our colleagues attendance. With that, that's all I have. >> Any questions for the superintendent? Move on to public input. Hearing none, we'll look for a properly worded motion to enter into non-public session. That's taking you with us. Yes. >> Yes. I'll be coming. Do you need anybody else board? >> I don't think so. I think just you

130don't need anything with superintendent or principal. Okay. >> No, I need >> I need to be better at organizing meetings for >> right Patty >> just didn't want Patty to slip away just in case you needed waiting for a response. >> We need >> lunchings work very well for me. I know. Me, too. >> I was like, I saw those guys put their coat on. >> Make a motion to enter to non public session under paragraph 2, section three of RSA 918, column three, no law. Four, number two, the hiring of any person as a public employee. Number three, matters which if discussed in public would like to adversely affect the reputation of any person other than a member of this school. Taking with us the superintendent >> second. All those in favor roll call

131vote please. Bill Gro motion car. Motion carries 5. We're now a non-public. Goodbye.