0016:30 and it is time to start the Marramac Valley School Board meeting for August 4th. Um, roll call. >> Tracy Brookie, >> yes, here. >> Sally Hersh Dickinson >> here. >> Julia Jones >> here. >> Melissa Muzzy >> here. >> Jessica Wheeler Russell >> here. >> Laura Vincent >> here. >> David Nesbbit >> here. >> Stacy Jarvis >> here. >> Laura Carile >> here. >> Tom Liberty >> here. >> Amanda York >> here. >> Okay. Pledge of allegiance, please. Mr. Todd, would you lead us in the pledge of allegiance, please? >> My honor. >> Thank you. Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So the next on the agenda is the minutes of
002the previous meetings and uh those minutes are in your packet. Um, and Sally has uh graciously um sent in cor uh corrections for um only for punctuation and readability, not for um any type of sub substantive changes. Does anybody have any thing that needs to happen? Tom, >> I think there's one thing. Um I read it today. I didn't catch it, but one of our citizens did. If you go to 11 at the committee reports where it says transportation, the end of the second last full line where it says at the last minute probably meant the last meeting guessing. >> Okay. Can you say that again? The last >> Yeah. So if yeah it says the committee was dis uh also discussed cancelling uh bus routes at the last minute or was it the last
003meeting? >> Probably both. [Music] >> Yes, it should be at the last meeting >> or wait. >> Okay. >> No, I think it means >> at the last minute. I wasn't at that meeting so I defer to somebody who was there. >> Yeah. I think because last minute because we were talking about intermittent services and if >> you know you have to at the last minute you don't have a bus driver and then parents have to scramble. >> Yes. We had a very conversation at the last meeting. I this was from the >> April meeting. That's why. Thank you for >> So >> there is It's good. It's good. Yeah. Thank you, Tom. >> I appreciate that. >> Motion to approve. >> Thank you. Motion to approve by Julia. >> Seconded by Jess. Any other
004questions about the minutes? All those in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. Okay. Next is public comment for the agenda items. And um Fred, will you make sure that people have a Thanks. What? >> Have a microphone. >> Microphone. >> Sure. >> Thanks. >> You can take this one. >> I knew I could count on you. given up some of these cases, maybe kind of elaborate a little bit on what could be covered in this public comment because I think some folks were trying to talk about the >> buses, but this agenda. >> It is an agenda. >> Um, transportation. I'm sorry. So, um, so public comment, we have two public comments on the agenda. The first one is before we get into the meat of the meeting. That one is for agenda items. We
005have another um public comment at the end of our business meeting and that is um for anything that you need to discuss with us. Please keep in mind that it is public comment. It's not a back and forth. This is a meeting of the Marramac Valley School Board and we are listening to your comments about what you deem important to us. Um, so for those of you who are new, transportation is on the agenda. So if transportation is your reason for being here and you would like to speak, now is the time for you to do that. Oh, give me this to uh pass. >> Hi, good evening. Uh, my name is James Zegra. I am a resident of Penokeook, New Hampshire. I have a son who attends Penokeook Elementary School and a daughter who's
006one-year-old who is going to attend Penokeook Elementary School. Um, there's three points I want to raise tonight. safety, financial considerations, and the practical effect of uh this walk route or walk zone, whatever you want to call it. Uh first, in terms of safety, you know, the district and board is telling us that it's hard to hire school bus drivers. Parents hear that. Parents understand it, but parents also hear the message that the district and board aren't overly concerned about kids safely getting to school. Parents hear that the district and board don't care about the logistical nightmare that this creates for many working parents. In fact, the district is saying that it's okay with having a 5 to 10 year old child walk up to a mile and a half in the snow, in the rain,
007whenever to school. And it's not really clear what this 1.5 mile radius is, if it's by the crow flies or if it's like measured by the amount of road you got to walk. But honestly, it doesn't make a difference. A lot of these roads don't have sidewalks. In in good weather, that's a major problem. Like Burrow Road and I think it's Lilac Street, they don't have any sidewalks. And so even if the snow's cleared, what if it's raining out? Kids are going to show up to school soaking wet and try to take a test with like wet shoe. It's it's ridiculous. Um, crossing Fisherville Road in the morning is really dangerous, especially for 5 to 10 year old kids. Studies from the National Science Foundation have shown that kids under 12 don't have the cognitive
008ability to judge distance and speed between moving cars. And the University of Iowa recently released a study that it's really not safe for kids to cross a sidewalk unaccompanied until they're about 14 years old. So, what's going to happen and who's going to be responsible if a child gets hit by a car while they're walking to school or worse? Second, the financial situation. I understand that this district has some serious financial difficulties. Um, but they have approved a budget of $47.9 million. It would cost I'm not good at math, but like 3/10en of 1% of the budget to ensure that Panakook Elementary School students get to school safely. That seems like a pretty worthwhile investment to ensure that literally half the kids who attend the school are able to get there safely. And that's especially
009true when you consider how much it might cost to defend a lawsuit if something happens to a child on the way to school. Lastly, I urge the board to consider the practical effects of cutting off busing. Parents put their kids on the bus out of necessity, not because they want to. I'm sure if you ask most parents, they'd rather spend more time with their kids than putting them on a bus. But parents have to work, and there will be real consequences for this. If parents are forced to miss a shift or show up late every single day, that's going to affect their jobs. Now, there are also are not enough spots in the before school and after school program, and that's considering even if parents could afford the $180 a week for the program. Finally,
010traffic. I don't know how many of you drive Fischerville Road in the morning, but it's really busy. Penuk Elementary School drop off in the morning, the traffic is literally backed up into Fischerville Road and it's going to be even worse. So, you add more cars to this, it's going to create more traffic, which is going to create more potential risk for students. So, for these reasons, I urge the board to do the right thing and fund the contractor. Be creative if you have to. If middle school and high school students need to walk, that's certainly a better alternative than having a five or six-year-old walking to school potentially unaccompanied uh year round. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Fred. Thanks. >> Hi, my name's uh Dedra Potter. I get nervous at these things, so bear
011with me. Um, I have a son who is in the elementary school and um, we do try to utilize the walking and the biking when we can because we understand that that buses were an issue last year. Um, I just feel like I live on Mana Road and that road is crazy when people are driving past it. I mean, I don't know if you guys drive on that road or on that road, but that road people are doing a 60 easy. So, I am worried because we have to cross our driveway over Manor to get to the sidewalk. So, he has to do that once. Then, if he walks, he has to go to Welch. He could go to Viserville, but again, I would like him to stay away from that road because it is
012very busy and crazy. So, he'd have to cross back over from the sidewalk to Welch. There is no crosswalk there or by my house. Then, he has to go down Welch. is sidewalks there fortunately which is why I let him do some bike riding but then he has to stop and triple check for these cars that go by cuz it's a stop sign and I mean just today there was something on the news about a pedestrian getting hit and conquered and how many are we seeing of these pedestrians getting hit by these cars. I have a middle schooler who also maybe I'm a little bit more lenient with maybe the middle schoolers and the high schools that might be a better option to maybe forego those buses first. I think the safety is like we
013had just heard that these kids maybe not have that cognitive skills to wait for that car because it's coming 60 miles per hour and not 30 and they can't judge that. And I just feel like you don't have these kids go outside in the in the winter in winter time if it's below a certain degree but you want my kid to walk in the morning even lower temperatures in the morning hours to then get to school. I'm a working parent. We are two working parents. We don't have the luxury of bringing them to school. I would love to. We don't have that luxury. So now I'm adding on some more financial stress to our family by having to add in a before school option. I was already late to work making the buses work, but
014here I am having to add more financial stress to me and our household. So it's just one of those options where I know that they're getting from point A to point B safely. They're coming back to my house or they're going to some sort of after school care. So, it just worries me that we're not putting safety first. And I understand that there's a lot of other stuff that goes into it. I'm not disregarding that. But I think a lot of parents are just really worried for their children and how we're going to make this work financially and safely. >> Thank you very much. >> Hi, my name is Jaclyn Wearing and I live in Panakook, not too far from here. Um, I live down on Ralph Street and we are within a mile of
015the school. If you go the direct route, which is if any of you know where the moral farm is and the hill that leads to that, it is climbing that hill. Now I have a fifth grader this year and he has done that on decent weather and decent weather only between the farmers equipment, the trucks, the cars that fly up and down that and it's barely wide enough to fit those with no sidewalks and a guardrail that drops off on the other side. My kindergartenner that'll start a year from now. Certainly not something I would expect her to be able to navigate safely. I think that's going to be the biggest concern you hear here tonight is the safety piece and the age piece. I am a high school administrator. I struggle with busing for
016the students that I have. I understand the position that the board is in and appreciate the struggle of it. But I think when we look at why we're in education, we're in education to help kids and keep them safe. That is the primary focus of what every teacher is doing in their classroom every day. And I think that asking five, six, seven year olds to walk a mile and a half irregardless of the conditions, knowing that most households are just barely getting by on two parent incomes. And most parents, like we've heard, can't necessarily get to school or to work later, depending on where you're going. We're not just looking at a safety issue when you're looking at board and district numbers. You're going to be looking at truency. You're going to be looking at
017added court costs for CHINS petitions. And when it gets that far, they're going to kick back like they do to us and say, "Well, they're not getting to school because they don't have transportation. So now figure it out." And so I urge the board to just consider that when you look at the long-term impact of what we're putting out there. Thank you. >> Hi, my name is Michelle Dearman. I have three kiddos, two who have already gone through the whole school district and I have a up and cominging third grader. I want to kind of parrot the same concerns, safety, financial, but I'll be honest, I want to add another piece to that. I have the privilege of being a two parent household and I have the privilege of being able to afford morning childare,
018but I'll be honest, and Mrs. more might get a chuckle out of this, but you don't want a lot of these kids adding another transition to their day. So, I've had the privilege of being able to modify my work schedule so that my child doesn't go to morning childcare because he will not be successful and he's already in your special education program. I think you're going to see a lot more behaviors. You're going to see a lot more challenges if these kiddos are walking to school and they're going to, you know, it's that might be fun. It might be safe for some kids. They're going to get all worked up. They're going to get excited. They're they're not going to be there on time. They're not maybe going to have breakfast the same way, but
019just my own kiddo, even if I just drive him to school because I could probably make that change in my day. If I couldn't and he went to morning care, like he he would be he wouldn't make it through the day without more interventions than than the school district's already providing him. So, I I caution that I think is going to be a bigger impact that people may not have thought about, especially the younger kiddos who can't handle transitions. And I would also like to back up. I also work at DCYF, so professionally I work in child protection and I guarantee you truency will be an issue. And I'll be honest, there's not a lot DC wife can do with it. When the school isn't able to say, well, we supported the parent because if
020we have a parent whose kiddo is not getting to school, the first thing we're going to ask is, "How are you helping get them there?" I can't imagine if then you have to start doing individual transportation for any kids with IEPs because they don't have the public bus. That's going to be three times the cost because I mean, I see that every day at work. And I just think that's another challenge that might be okay right now, but in six months from now, it's it's not going to be and it's going to cost a lot more. And I have one other question. I will admit I was four or five minutes late so I might have missed this but I don't know if we're if the kind of cost piece has been looked at is
021are there other towns in the district that we're looking at for walking or is it just Penokeook and why is it just Penokeook and not other towns such as you know like I I I'll be honest I'm I don't good about the other towns but I I could picture Boswin in theory there's kids just as close in Boswin I don't want them to walk either but if for some reason I'm not sure why that if that cost has been brought up and why it's only Penokeook because the other thing is Penokeook is the school if I'm correct that is also housing all the kids who need extra supports. So those kids may be getting transportation still, but now you're adding other kids who now need extra supports to Penokeook because Penokeook does have the largest
022staff and does have the bigger building and pieces. I just think it's going to be a little bit trickier if you're adding more transitions to these kids days. >> Thank you very much. Thanks Joe from Tilt Road. I circled on my copy out of my printer number 4D on finance. And before I start talking, I'd like to ask uh I read that for the 716 Wednesday 5:30 report on negotiated contracts. Does that include I I know I'm not supposed to ask questions, but I mean I can talk now or talk later. I wanted to find out if the negotiated contracts include the DRRA downshifted tax rate that you with the town of Boswin either agree to or not. Do I talk now or do I talk later on that because it might not be included
023in the uh uh committee report? Past tense, future tense. Can I talk about it now or not? You can discuss it. It It's time for you, Joe, to talk. It's It's public comment. You may discuss. >> Okay. Well, I didn't know how far you got because I didn't attend the last meeting and I see the next meeting is Monday coming up in a week from now and I will try to attend that and see what's going on here because the Conval Ca case, Kuka Valley School District, uh that came out July 1st and I called Sam York the you know the administrator here and he said that the uh payment for mid July had already been made July 1. So that was like a trip uh payment that's what I call it prepayment. So now
024that the decision has been made that all of this threequarters of the tax on average is supposed to be paid by the state. So, uh, I'm going to the board of selectment meeting on Wednesday in G in, uh, Boswin at 6:00 and I'm going to ask him, I'm going to say, "You going to return the money to the people?" Because I put an abatement in for last year and this has been dragging out for 19 years. It was Judge Grath in 2006 in the London Derry case. He said, uh, uh, no downshifting. But that's what's been happening for almost two decades. And it goes back to the Claremont case with Andrew Valinsky and John Tobin. And I don't need to rattle on and on in that, but I mean something's got to be uh cemented
025in stone of what you intend to do about it. >> Thank you, Joe. >> Sorry. Is there anybody else who would like to speak about anything on the agenda? >> Thank you. >> Hi, my name's uh Ryan Demurs. Oh, dancer. Um I'm actually a brand new uh citizen of Penuk. My wife and I just closed about a month ago. Uh we're very excited to be here. Um and you know, in our moving process, we did a lot of research on the uh the Penokeook School District and you know, we were very pleased to read positive reviews. Um but we're like super concerned about this um you know potential in a inavvailability of um you know public transit for our kids. You know we're going to have a kindergartenner, third grader and fifth grader. You know
026our our first grader you know has you know diagnosed with pretty severe ADHD. um he does not have an IEP because another district found that, you know, his his disability um didn't affect his academics, but the thought of him walking to school is is just, you know, it it can't happen. You know, we'd have to um adjust our work schedule. You know, my wife is just starting a brand new job and kind of tentatively has to, you know, be like, well, I don't know, you know, because now we're not sure if, you know, we'll have to be available for morning drop offs. So, um, you know, just a major disruption, um, to our lives, um, and just a huge safety concern. You know, I'm also a fifth grade teacher, not in this district, but, um,
027so I I understand, you know, I I understand all the the elements that go into a decision like this, but, you know, student safety has to come first and and I think that's where we come from. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Anybody else? Public comment. >> I apologize, Randy. I did not hear you say buses were on the agenda. So, but but luckily I kept it short. That was good. I'm just going to repeat what I said before. The plane equity. >> Wait, what? >> Bill Hines Boswin. >> Thanks. Um uh the plain equity just reeks to me and I I don't know why you all couldn't see that you were going to get all these people in the meeting when we decided to do this long ago. Uh because I saw it
028meetings ago and to me as a governing body this is what I look to avoid. Um so that's that's my two cents on that. And and I just do want to restate, I'm apologize I wasn't able to be at the last meeting, but I really would like to know some more details about the $180,000. Quite frankly, hearing what I hear behind me sounds like a bargain. Um I I know we don't have money that grows on trees, but um you know, the the most important thing that we do in in our day is get our kids to the schools safely. That's step one and it's the highest and and great, you know, I I've worked for a company that would say the most the most dangerous thing you're going to do today is drive to
029work. Once you're at work, everything else is going to be so safe that you know, life is good. So, I think this is analogous. Thank you. >> Thank you, Bill. >> Fred, one more person in the back. Yeah. Hi, Logan McGee, 10 Bluffs Drive. Um, my first time at one of these meetings. Is this a lot of people for >> For some days, yes, and for some days, no. Oops. >> Imagine, if you will, the amount of people that are going to show up when something happens to a five or sixyear-old kid walking to school. My name is Judy McFale. I live on Primrose Lane and I've heard a lot about the younger students. Um when you come out of Primrose Lane, there is a very short um piece of sidewalk there that goes down
030to Milstream and then that's it until you get up uh around a very dangerous corner. Um and you might notice that the telephone pole on that corner has been snapped off and a new one put in since in this current calendar year. My concern is that I can't imagine any of the junior high or high school kids that I see walk past my house that are going to walk single file along borrow road. I just it's dangerous all d burrow road is dangerous all the time but for them to be going to school with snow bankankans with uh it's seting or even on a delayed opening there still it still isn't um safe in the snow. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing no one else, then let's go on to good news. Um,
031so good news was in the um online packet. Um, and does anybody have anything they want to say? And are we having we're not having anybody speak. Okay. Um the student representative report. I think Nick is still at uh Syracuse. He isn't here. So we'll go on to um the committee reports which is um we have minutes in the in the packet for transportation. first the minutes from uh June 2nd and from July 16th. Why don't we discuss the minutes first and then we can get a um report from >> from from transportation. Anybody have anything they want to change in the minutes from June or July? Can I have >> any inaccuracies when I read them? >> Can I There weren't any inaccuracies? No. Can I have a motion? >> Yeah, I know. >>
032Oh, okay. We don't normally True. You're right. We don't normally even um But the minutes are fine. So, do you want to report? >> Um Yes. >> Or Okay, >> I'll give a brief report. We met on the 2nd to talk about [Music] um to talk about We met on the 2nd to talk about implementation of a rock zone in Pinnacook. This concern, this topic arose because we have not been able to find adequate bus drivers for our district and last spring we're having to cancel roots at the last minute which did not work very well. Um, we centered it on Pinnacook because that's where a significant number of students live within a mile and a half of the school and that's the district rock zone and it lines up with the state rock zones.
033The other towns really did not have that. So, we talked about that. We there were lots of concern about road safety and lack of sidewalks. Um on the second we did not make any motion on that. Uh safety made a motion to permit the district to sell junk buses if the procer was more competitive than the scrap pass and that passed. Um, and we decided to meet again on was it July 16th? >> Okay. So, we met again on July 16th. Um the dis the district administrators had had checked into um uh contracting off buses and they had g been given appro $180,000 annually. But the contracted provider said they could not guarantee that we would always have jobs. If I remember that's So that did not seem like a real solution. So the committee
034had passed a motion that we bring to the full board the implementation of the 1.5 mile walk zone in Pinnacook and we are aware of the safety cons concerns. We're very concerned about those. Yes. But that's basically our report. That's where we are. Uh, so >> so some may have more information. >> Can I have a Okay. So if I have some questions, so um did you want did you have something else to say? Thanks. >> I really don't have a whole lot more to add um to what Laura said. The the biggest thing is that right now we have 13 roster drivers. We have seven that are in the pipeline for potential drivers. Um, I spoke with Noel, our director of transportation earlier today. She's fairly confident that five of those seven um will
035be able to meet the requirements at some point within maybe the first month of the school year. Uh, with the Penoke routes included, we have 20 routes that we would need drivers for. So, in a perfect scenario where all seven um were able to get rostered, were able to get their licenses, we would have exactly the number of drivers we would need. Um but that's a a perfect scenario. Um that's without someone calling out sick um on a on a daily basis or or something else. >> Do you want to talk, Katherine? Do you want to talk about the possibility of a crosswalk? Um >> um I don't have any updates related to to that. Um I could speak a little bit to the challenge of the the contracted uh drivers if that would be
036helpful. >> Y >> um so uh in our other district Andover, we do contract our transportation services and um the the financial impact is not the only barrier to utilizing a contracted service. contracted services uh providers, transportation providers are facing the same uh driver shortages that we are here at Marramac Valley that all districts are facing right now. Um and in fact our experience in working with a contracted provider has been at times they are notifying us that they don't have drivers and they are cutting routes and consolidating um which has led to lengthening of of bus rides for our students in that district and sometimes last minute changes. So beyond the financial impact of the contracted services, there's the reality that they per they are not necessarily able to even provide the drivers for
037us consistently as well. >> Um do you want me to speak to that equity piece that keeps coming up as well? That would be great. >> So and I I know another topic that has come up is that we that Pentacook is being targeted in this situation. Um, and I I don't mean targeted in in a um a negative way simply that that's where we've been focusing our energies. Um, and and that is because if we look at the 1.5 mile walk zone in any of our other towns, uh, it doesn't solve the issue that we're facing with the driver shortage. It wouldn't eliminate a route by um having students within that 1.5 mile walk five mile zone walk to school. There aren't enough there on enough there are enough walker there are enough students
038>> that live within 1.5 miles to eliminate a bus route and eliminate a driver um which is it's it's the simple fact that we do not have enough drivers to drive the amount of routes that we have right now is the the challenge we face. So it says in I'm sorry I am the only one talking but it says in here that you talked about the possibility of a crosswalk. Can you talk about that? >> Sure. So currently it so the transportation committee voted and made the recommendation that we bring to the full board um the the idea of eliminating the two bus routes in Penuk. If that is to happen, we need to make appropriate plans for um crosswalks and crossing guards. The crosswalk that we would be utilizing primarily for access to Pinnacook
039Elementary is currently at the fire station. It is not directly at the school. Um so we would need to provide a crossing guard to go there uh to support that and then certainly that we would need to have conversations about if additional crossing guards are necessary at other places. >> I have another question. But does anybody else because I feel like I'm the only one asking questions. >> I have I have another question. Can is there an update on who is it that provides the after school and before school program at Pinnacook? >> Uh Penuk is provided by the Boys and Girls Club. >> And do we have any idea on numbers that they can accept or times they operate or cost or anything that we can share? We house those programs, but we do
040not run those programs. Uh they very frequently are at capacity with weight lists. >> Two things. One, um I think I believe we supposed to have a motion before we kind of really get into this. Is that do we have one on the floor? >> Do we? >> I don't believe we have a motion. >> Okay. >> And just point of order being that person again. I think part of it when we were addressing some of the public comment questions that kind of let us know that. >> So that's my fault because I kept asking questions. >> Okay. >> Julia and then I can answer that question. >> Julia made the motion to go with the um with the decision of the transportation committee to um enforce the walk zone of 1.5 miles in Penokeook.
041Stacy seconded that. >> Oh, I'm sorry. You did you >> could we just have or is the motion to discuss? >> No, we can't >> to do it first. So, we has to make a motion and then it has to be seconded and then we can discuss, >> right? >> But it sounds like you're trying to say to to go with the 1.5 vote as a board on that. >> What? So, okay, hold on. Hold, please. So, we need to have a motion on the floor. The motion cannot be to just discuss. The motion has to be a motion. The motion from the committee was that we eliminate the 1.5 mile walk zone. >> We enforce sorry it right. So we enforce the 1.5 mile walk zone that so is that. Okay. So what is
042your motion? I'm sorry. >> No. So, I'm going to make a motion that we do not um uh make this a sole walking zone for Panakook for 1.5 miles around the school radius. >> Okay. I'm not sure that we can make >> Can we make Can we make the negative motion? >> They can make a motion. >> Okay. All right then. And Sally, you are going to second that. So, the motion is to not go with what the um committee said. It is to go with not eliminating the 1.5 mile walk zone. So, >> and Laura, I can answer your question because probably shocking to nobody. I actually started researching and calling daycare centers. Um, >> who's talking >> me? Hi. I'm just putting it up to my I'm tired of leaning over this thing.
043Um there's about when I called them midsummer, it was about 30 spots within the building. There will be more in um the PCC building in town, but they couldn't really give me a solid answer. But when I did call, they in about July, they had a few spots open within the school. Um and it was to the tune of $182 for just morning care. I um do not believe >> a week >> per week per child. >> Mhm. >> So $182 just so we do the math because um this is obviously a factor. It's $182 per week um uh with a sibling discount. So it might be like $340 times 4 is you know we're looking at like $1,200 for a family. That's kind of >> that's just for before >> that's just before before
044care. I don't know if they do a discount or if they wave the afternoon care. I couldn't really get somebody on the phone to do that. >> Oh boy. >> What time is it before scope yard starts? >> When my students said it, it was I'm gonna look at Jen. When my students did it, it was like 700 a.m. maybe 7:15. Um, Jen's nodding. So, >> okay. Thank you, >> Stacy. And then I'll go to Lorna. >> Um, just some input. I was going to say that um you know as a stu former student who was in a walk zone um and someone who sat on transportation and we went through all of these scenarios um I'm also someone who was a pedestrian and hit in a crosswalk and broke my hip. So, even as
045a 35-year-old when that happened, I was looking both ways. It was snowing. So, to expect a small child um when it could happen to an adult is concerning, and it probably wouldn't just be a broken hip to a 5-year-old. Um, we have gone over all the scenarios we could have possibly gone over in this transportation committee and put a lot of thought into it. And I know that when I think from the school side of it, I think it's a great idea. It would eliminate cost. um it would have helped with our busing situation, but as a school board member who's thinking of the children, it's just not something that I could vote for or support. Um my child's in Boswin wouldn't be affected. But yeah, that's >> Thank you, Warner. And then David and
046then Sally >> and then Jess. >> I don't know. Is this still muted or no? >> After Jess. >> Okay. Well, so I have two questions in in my head. So, could we We're looking at 180,000, but we can't even guarantee that we'll get a bus driver. What would could we do about possibly doing a subsidy for parents who could drop their kid off at a at the before school because it's very expensive. So, would that help offset some of the cost? The other question I have, and I'm just not clear in my mind, the bus routes when they run, do they they do two separate routes for like the younger kids versus the older kids? And so that but it still wouldn't help eliminate a bus driver, even if we said you older kids
047have to walk, but the younger ones could ride. >> Yeah. Can I take that second one first? Yeah. So, we do have dual busing. We bus our middle and high school students in first and then they go their drivers return and they bus our elementary students. So for that reason it doesn't not busing the middle and high school and only busing elementary again we still end up with the same driver shortage situation. Um regardless of doing that in regards to your your first question I think I'd need a little bit more details around that. Again, uh we are not in a position where we're going to pay parents to pay for child care for before school. Um if that's what you're >> again I feel like cuz they're they're feeling like they're being singled out
048which unfortunately they're only a mile and a half so it kind of falls in that but if if there was any way to alleviate that or to set something up at the school so okay you can drop your kid here and but you know we'd have to have personnel to cover that and I'm just I'm just throwing that out there as something to think about because you know it is very scary thinking about little kids walking to school. >> Yeah. I don't We aren't in a position where we can fund child care in our schools, >> David. Okay. Um I spent almost my entire school days walking to school, but that was the 50s and 60s, and this is certainly an entirely entirely different world out there. And the points that many of the uh
049parents in the audience have made tonight, particularly about Fiserville Road are are are very true and it's really alarming. And I had a uh one of my stepsons hit by a car on their way to school once. So I can understand the trauma of of that incident. Um, so the our big issue seems it's not money in so far is like we just can't find drivers and if we can't find drivers, we don't have buses. So it puts us in this proverbial between a rock and a hard place, how are we going to deal with this? Is there any way the school since we don't have people who can be here to cover a the calf or something? Is there any way the school can set up a some kind of a group or maybe
050it's us and the school board that sets up parent uh parents who don't have jobs who could act as monitors to walk the kids to schools particularly the younger kids so at least we have somebody there with them. I hear so much about these corners, these drop offs, the cars doing 60 or more in Fishville roads and I just don't want to think about the consequences that that could be. So if there's any way we can think out of the box, if we simply cannot get bus drivers, what can we do to work together to solve this problem? >> Thank you, David Sally. So one of the questions that I have is why is it that only Penuk roots are subject to last minute cancellation? Um is it because we are the school that has
051the you know the walk zone that might be most readily adapted to exigency is that >> so um Panakook's affected because we have two routes where the students live all live within 1.5 miles of the school. So in cancing those we're still able to meet our legal obligations to >> to provide transportation. >> We cannot cancel any other routes and still meet our legal obligations >> any other roots in any other towns. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um yeah I mean because I was a little bit confused around um you know why is it that the district as a whole isn't sharing the burden of this challenge that we have. So, but there's a strict legal limit to what it is that we're permitted per permitted to do. >> So, state law is um two miles
052that schools are required to provide transportation for anything beyond two miles and board policy is 1.5. >> Okay. Um so, the next it's more of a point than it is a question. So my husband is a licensed CDLB driver and he has an off season between November and March and so he had sought to assist in filling some of these vacancies by getting trained and what he >> Noel would love that. >> Well, he knows Noel actually. Yeah. Spencer Dickinson. Yeah. >> Um and and he would still like to do this. >> Okay. Good. All right. Excellent. Uh the challenge though has been that the process is is difficult. It's a it's a protracted process and um what I'm wondering is is there any way to make it easier without compromising safety and standards? Um
053so I don't know if this is a question do I lob it to Noel, >> but can we get you on mic? >> Noel, that would be great if you could answer that question. Just speak into the microphone, please. >> Thank you for being here. >> Welcome. Hi. >> Thanks, Noel. >> You're welcome. So, last year was my first year as director. I started towards the end of October. There was no training program implemented. Since then, I've sent myself and three other people to become certified trainers and we have an up and running training program right now, which I haven't seen people I've worked in district for almost nine years, and I haven't seen them train this fast since I worked in the cities. Um, so right now I have three drivers who started with
054nothing already with their CDLB permits. Um, two coming in to train as well. So five total, but we're still seven down even with them. Does that make sense? >> So if Spencer comes back to help in the winter on the off seasons, he'll move a lot faster because we have a whole program developed to it now. >> And I would love that because he was great. >> I'll tell him. >> All right. Thank you. >> And thank you for answering the question. No problem. Thank you, >> Jess. >> Um, I have a couple questions. Um, so you said that it was how many do we have right now? 13 with potentially at best seven. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> How many did we have last year? How many drivers do we have, Noel? Oh, you're
055still there. Okay, good. >> Said don't go away. >> Yeah, >> I'll hang out. So when I started working in the office, we had 27 bus routes. I consolidated those to 20 runs. >> Um we are 20 runs, 13 drivers, seven down, five in training. >> And was that the same last year? 13 drivers. I'm asking about last year's drivers. How many did we have last year? >> We lost three at the end of the year due to um DOT limitations. So three more. >> So we were at 10. Were we at 10ish? No, we go up 13, 14, 15, 16ish, give or take. >> Okay, >> that's with me driving and my mechanics driving and my assistant driving. >> That's with all of us driving. >> Um, how many students rode? Well, just to
056make it a little bit easier, understanding that I don't, you know, I'm not insinuating that age matters when it comes to safety concerns, but just um, how many Panakook Elementary students rode buses last year in on these two routes? How many students are we talking >> roughly 85 to 105 >> and >> on both like a third of Panakook Elementary is roughly what we're talking here right I'm looking at the principal about 300 >> how many students total do you have >> three okay um that's a lot more than I actually thought it would be but explains why uh it was so loud out on those buses. Um, so how many students just um to ask the question, how many do you know how many students last year lived within uh 1.5 miles of bees?
057>> Lived within or used the bus? Um, >> within 1.5 miles, not many. Um, I'd say a group stop over on King Street. >> Um, >> just a handful, it sounds like. Yeah, there's not there's not a whole lot of them within that 1.5 because if you look at the area, it's just not >> Mhm. >> just not >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I >> Yeah. And the kids the housing across the street, most of those children are older now except for a few that are on different types of buses. >> Okay. Um and so how many bus routes are in Boswin for um elementary? >> So the Panakook and Boswin buses kind of mirror each other. So Boswin has 11 12 >> uh 13 and 14 >> and Henuk had 11 12 and
05814. So three and four. >> Okay. Um I think that's what I have now for just questions, but um I was trying to get an idea because um I mean I I would like to first off say at least two things to make it very clear that um I like Katherine was saying I there is no like maliciousness in this. I think obviously we're just in a very poor situation that has been years in the making. As I was reading up on what other districts have done, we're t, you know, NSHA in 2023 was talking about this problem. We've been sort of hearing about it for maybe four years that I can recall. Um, and so it it stinks. I understand. And it's difficult, but I am I am concerned that the measure is draconian
059and reactive instead of proactive and we are putting you know the cart before the horse in this situation right I am not necessarily opposed to asking students to walk right I am opposed that we're giving them less than 30 days to tell them like that's ultimately not fantastic safety concerns aside which I will touch on in a second here but Um, I I had this whole like list of examples to set up, but I actually think that the parents and guardians that spoke to to us tonight said basically everything I was going to say and that um and that all the emails that we've been getting, they can say it better than I can even though I personally, yes, would be affected by this. However, I like some folks in the audience am privileged enough
060that I will be able to no matter what my kids will be going will have a way to go. I've done the walking bus. I've watched neighborhood children right to and from school during the challenges that we've had. But I stopped short at offering to other parents like, "Hey, you don't know who I am. You want me to walk your kid?" like like like I I I get that idea and I think it's not a bad idea, but I think it's something that needs to be put in place far ahead of making this choice. Um engaging parents in that kind of community thinking, putting on the friendship list that they get at that age level. Um I haven't experienced the high school yet so I don't know what they do there for communications but you
061know um putting things on that list of like hey uh would you be interested in engaging in community you know walking zones like a bike bus I think a lot of people would be cool with that if it was a choice um you know that kind of thing. So I think what I'm going to say um is number one obviously safety concerns um we have um our you know we have very few sidewalks that are even when they're plowed um takes I mean I live on manor as well I am a major artery between um the highway and conquered so uh You would think that that walk zone would get plowed first. Sometimes it takes an entire day for them to come by my house. Like it's not these things are not in place. We
062don't have you know um lights that would allow say a crossing guard to let students cross for example again because I live there. I happen to know it very well that you know Fischerville to Manor it's a 17se second crosswalk. So, you have to press the button, wait, walk out there, stop everybody because they don't listen to no turn on red, and then give kids 10 seconds to cross that. Maybe like obviously in that situation, I would be asking that we engage the city and say, "Hey, these are the rock walking routes." Um, maybe look at that safe routes to school study that I think was done. Fred could tell me, was it done in 2012? >> 2014. look at that and see where maybe we could put some of those things in place beforehand,
063right? Um and the other piece is the um asking parents to rearrange their logistics again with less than 30 days notice. Not great. It's really challenging to find child care and it's really expensive when you can. And I have that experience recently of being a working parent and finally getting the relief of, oh, both my kids are in kindergarten. Like, I'm not paying a mortgage. So I I I don't feel like giving parents this little time to handle that is adequately um going to allow them to be able to um you know get all the things they need in place. Um what I would rather see is instead of this kind of reactive thinking a more proactive approach and consider wild ideas. I don't you know sure contractors I mean I would rather we attempt
064a contractor before cutting this route. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But at least we tried and maybe at that time or why can't we split some of the bus routes between Bosco and Penica? I I don't know the answer. You I'm just saying like I'm just saying wild ideas and have staggered start times like anything rather than, you know, put these kids at risk with so little time to handle it. Um I'm all for there's no bad ideas in a brainstorm. So I would rather committee go back and think of some crazy things. You know, I was talking to some of my peers in conquered because I know some folks who reside on that school board and I was asking them like what do you guys do and they have you know obviously
065they have their walking routes but they actually have exceptions in the schools around here. So like could we come to some kind of ex like maybe exception and saying like tell me you know sign up. Can we have kids go to one spot instead of everybody stopping at, you know, going down Woodbine, stopping at Larksboro, stopping at Sorl, stopping at Daphne, stopping like can would it be easier if we could coalesce more kids into different spaces to make it faster so then we can also utilize bus drivers outside of Panakook and point I'm making is I would rather see creative thinking and this just feels um not you know it doesn't quite seems like it's allowing folks to be able to get a system in place for their students before school starts. And that's all
066I'll really say for now. Um, Julia, >> thanks. >> Thank you. >> Um, I only made to it to the last transportation meeting. Has it been considered because the population in Salsbury Elementary School for them to share one bus? Noel, >> the distance is too great. Um, they would never get to school on time without clashing into the high school middle school run. It wouldn't time out. We couldn't do it. Trust me, we already Salsbury used to have three. Now we're down to two. Webster had three. Now we're down to two. The spacing between the kids and the students housing, we can't we can't fit it in. Trust I've tried. multiple times. That's why we went from 27 routes to 20. >> And thank you for that. >> You're welcome. >> Um, regardless of what
067the decision is, would it be possible because there are kids that will walk regardless for um PE has to get a walk or a school zone light because I don't believe they have one right now. Can we request that from the city of conquer? >> A what? >> You know how like Boswin has like 20 mph blinking light school zone? Panic doesn't have one. There's one on Washington Street, but not on Fischerville where it's needed because that's the majority of them. >> Yeah, of course, we can request those things. That's the that would be why we're putting the walk zone on the table is to promote safe practices for all the kids that fall within that 1.5. Without the walk zone there, we can't enforce any safe practices. And with 20 routes and 13 drivers,
068there will be no one to cover those whether we vote yes or no. So, this would allow for safe practices like crosswalk requests, flashing lights, crossing guards, um a phone tree to set up walking buddies and car pools. This would allow for that. Without it, these kids are going to have nothing and they're still not going to have a bus because there isn't a body to put in it. So that is that is my biggest concern safety wise is leaving them with nothing. >> Laura then Tom. >> Okay. I keep thinking maybe we could stagger best friends to make it work. Something like that. And I I mean I I don't know. I've had many sleepless nights over this. >> Tom, >> sorry. Um, first of all, thank you for everybody's work. Transportation committee parents
069that came out today. Thank you for that. Um, just a a a couple things here. Sam talked about having 13 people right now. Does that include you talked about your mechanics are licensed, your license? Are these 13 outside of the three or four? >> So, we have 13 outside of that. Did I just hear you say though if if we vote no, the kids are still going to publicly be walking. >> We don't have a body to put on them. >> So, right now, >> so like similar to the end of last year where we just had to cancel them daily. That will be the start of this year. We don't have any other option. >> Okay. Um can you can you walk me through what happened in the spring? What did a a struggling
070spring day look like where kind of brought this all up? What did it look like for you as far as you get phone calls from bus drivers? You're not coming in and you have to contact parents in the morning. Is that what's happening? >> Um, I would contact Katherine because I was running out to cover a run. I didn't have time to contact parents. >> So, Tom, we knew um I think early April Noel actually raised the flag to say based on some projected situations, she knew around midMay we were going to hit a dire situation. And so we were certainly doing all that we could do to see if we couldn't recruit additional drivers. Around midmay though we faced a pretty difficult situation where we were communicating with families on a weekly basis about
071um and it was just for buses 12 and 14 in Penokeook again because those are the 1.5 mile um zone buses um and we were communicate communicating with them on a weekly basis as to what routes would be canceled on what dates. However, we were running like a skeleton crew. So, all it took was one person to call in sick to Noel at 5:00 a.m. who is already out rolling um to to change the entire thing. So, no, they contact Noel. Noel contacts me. We our principles push out communications. And we had encouraged families, make sure you're checking your email regularly. Um but the reality of that that situation was that there were times where parents weren't aware that the bus was not coming on that day. they were anticipating the bus coming and they
072were had students out there waiting for the bus. Um, and it was really just daytoday. Um, well I Sam was the high school principal then so you can attest. I mean it was it was an everyday situation where we were touching base trying to figure out can we run them, can we not? >> So um yeah, hold on. I have Jess and then I have Stacy. I want to um Oh, Amanda, I'm sorry. And then Amanda and but I would like to say um for that the school board does take the safety of the students very seriously. It is our main concern when we talk about what is important to us. Um none of the decisions made by the transportation committee were made um just because they could. Um they're worried about safety. Um, the
073part of the safety issue is, as Katherine just said, when parents are expecting a bus and they don't know a bus is coming and their child is waiting out there for a bus, a lot of things can happen. It doesn't have to be just because a child's walking to school, that's the only time that um they're unsafe. So, I just wanted I just needed to say that. Um anyway, Jess, >> um Stacey spoken. Amanda hasn't spoken before the rest of us. So, >> okay, >> she would go before us. >> Amanda, >> I have a few questions before I start talking. Are buses allowed to pick up from one town to the next? So, could like a I know that doesn't solve the problem for elementary, but could a louden bus pick up Henuk students?
074>> You mean after they finished a loud and elementary run? >> Yeah. For instance, like if Lowden's coming to Panakook and they're coming up Manor Road, if they come across Sules, then can they pick up Panakook students as well? Even though it's a Louden bus, >> it would be so the Louden buses service the high school and middle school from Louden in here and then go back out to Louden and do Lowden Elementary. So, it wouldn't be until they dropped off between 8:45 and 9 and then the 20-minute ride in here. >> No. So what I'm ask I I said I know this wouldn't touch the elementary students but is for the older students allowed in bus coming through in on the high school run can they pick up younger student can they pick up
075panakook students >> for the high school middle school run they do right now >> they already do okay >> in one location up over by the >> street I'm still unsure what does that 1.5 mile definition mean is it by crows or >> it's a radius so you drop a pin at the school and it it's a radius all the way around. >> By the way, the crow flies. Okay. And is is there rules for how long children can be on that bus for? >> Um we like to not have them on for over an hour. >> There is there's a policy. >> It's a board policy >> for one hour. >> Um I think that >> not more than one hour. Actually, I don't even know if it's not more than one hour. I
076would have to That's what I have in my book. >> Yeah. >> So, it uh the district has established that no student will ride longer than 1 hour on the bus to school and 1 hour from school. >> Oh, that's interesting. And I'm going to say that's interesting because we live three minutes from Lowden and my daughter's route was over an hour last year. >> So, that was my question when if we go back into brainstorming. Um, so some questions I had and cross town. So let someone else talk while I think about that. >> Okay, >> Jess. >> Um, I have I want to go back to what we said about how we can't put things in place if we're still attempting to either hire a contractor or having the bus situation happening. Why
077can't we reach out to the city with a safe schools route while we're working down working at drawing down on bus service? Why? I don't that that makes no sense to me. >> I'm not sure that I'm not sure that I heard that we cannot do that. >> I I maybe I misunderstood, but Noel had said that we can't imple implement safe. >> Well, I mean, we can't hire like a crossing guard for >> and so there's some we can and some we can't. And that's more so what I meant. I didn't mean we couldn't try it. >> I was like, okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Um, I had one more thing that I think might have completely escaped my mind. So, raise it again. >> I know in transportation we discussed um that
078we have competitive pricing for our bus drivers. I'm just wondering if if we're looking at spending potentially $180,000 on contracting services, would it be worth it to look at spending a fraction of that on again offering an increase in the salary to potential bus drivers rather than spending that money on contracted services? Just something to >> We already have um raised and um we had a a sidebar agreement with the with the bus drivers and we have done that. We haven't seen a as big of an increase um as we would have liked >> you can >> I'd like to do so >> call the question. So the question is we okay call the motion the motion was that we will not implement well excuse me we will not eliminate the 1.5 mile walk zone.
079All those in favor >> enforce >> thanks enforce I have my ewords all messed up. We will not enforce the uh 1.5 mile walk zone. All those in favor of not enforcing the 1.5 mile walk zone say I. >> I. >> All those opposed. Okay then. So um I would like to u maybe entertain a motion to um so I guess I have a question about um contracting. So, and you said Andover contracts and they ran into the same issue. Um, I I but they wouldn't not transport the people. It would just mean that those students waited for a longer period of time to get to where they needed to go. Is that what happened? Yes, that was the situation for Andover. >> So, if we were to contract um for in Marramac Valley, the
080students would still be bus, but they might not be bus for an extra hour. So, that would mean that in the morning kids would be waiting outside. Is that what happened in Andover? I I I just need to I I just need to know >> our experience in handover has been we have a positive working relationship with the contractor there. Yes.