001good afternoon everybody so what we're going to be doing this afternoon is it's primarily what we refer to as a targeted selection interview process some of the questions are very targeted selection oriented some are experiential and some are trying to get a little bit more at maybe philosophy of the candidate and so the questions are a compilation of input that I received from board members and then just some best practice type questions and my recommendation is that we will the six of you or five of you to start we will round-robin the questions and I will also provide the candidate a copy so that he can see because sometimes it helps to be able to see the questions in front of you and then when I'm gonna ask you to do is to make notes
002and then score those questions based on the criteria if you look at the bottom of each page you can see there because you know it's important if you're going to use some type of rating scale to have an indication of you know how you're using those numbers and so basically we're looking at this as an entry level or first time school board attorney if you feel that his response meets the job requirements for this position it's an acceptable level for you as a board member then you would give that a three and then I kind of say use that as your what we what use is acceptable and then if it's above that you would then give a four or five if you feel it does not adequately do that then you would give a
003to one or a zero would be if you asked the question and the candidate just you know sometimes the candidate just says I just don't have an answer for that question and that would be when you would or they completely answer it in a different way what I would say to you is it is perfectly appropriate if the candidate answers the question but you feel that you want to probe a little further you can ask a follow-up question or say can you please expand on that a little bit further I would also recommend that due to the nature of this scenario that if it's not your question but you still feel you need a follow-up that you please just do so because the goal here really is to determine is this candidate meeting your needs
004for the role of school board attorney and so the only thing we would want to stay away from or any questions that we feel would be you know not appropriate in any interview setting you know those typical questions about you know religious beliefs about personal situations and things like that we would want to stay away from those if I feel that a question comes up that I don't feel is appropriate I will simply interject and say you know can we move on to another question or I'll say something that would be appropriate just so that we're all making sure we're not asking anything that wouldn't be appropriate as always remember this will be public record so anything that you write down on the paper just you know know that it will be memorialized and so
005you know keep that in mind as you're you're putting your notes I like to recommend that your notes excuse me your notes if you feel that you're gonna give a 2 or a 1 or a 0 then that's what your notes would reflect if you're gonna give a 4 or 5 then your notes would reflect you know great response to this or something so that if the candidate was looking for feedback later we could say well several you know board members put on this question that you really didn't answer it or your details weren't you know you didn't provide a specific example or whatever so that we could provide appropriate feedback you know if the situation requires it there are there are 12 questions and then there's an opening question and a closing question so
006really 14 questions so we have more than adequate time because even if he spends five minutes which is a really long time on a question we have you know that would be done in 70 minutes so we certainly have enough time are there any questions so I just want to clarify I have a couple of questions that are not on here but could be related to one of these categories if it's yeah if it's appropriate to the question if it's something that I think wouldn't be appropriate like I said then I'll I'll just say something and let you know that any other questions thirty minutes we're going to start he can and I am he's provided me some very specific feedback on from his one-on-one so I feel comfortable moving forward at this time would
007you like me to tell him how it's gonna go or do you just want to give you a little insight as to what we're going to be doing here this afternoon we're gonna be as you can tell engaging in a panel interview and the questions are going to be primarily targeted selection based or and I've got a copy here in case you refer to them and they're gonna round-robin the questions they're gonna be taking notes as you're talking so they may not be giving you know direct eye contact while you're talking if you would like any clarification or you know anything then just please let you know let that board member know if another board member would like to ask a follow-up question they will do so at the time that the question is being
008asked so even though it's a particular board members turn you may hear from other board members as well did you have any questions before we begin I don't okay all right let's get started okay this is the opening question would you please tell us briefly why you are interested in this position what skill sets talents and work experiences make you the ideal candidate for this position well thank you first of all let me thank all of you for the opportunity to be here today it is an honor to be here to answer your question and I think it's important to note that I had individual conversations with all of you so some of this may be repetitive but when you're 49 years old and have been toiling away as a lawyer for 24 years there's
009times in your career where you have to go all in and for 13 years I've been the staff attorney as you all know and I have learned so much and had the opportunity to work for five superintendents numerous board members and have developed I think the ability in my current job to communicate with all people in all walks of life and the second question is about skill sets and talents my talent and skill set lies in my ability to communicate I also have I believe a skill set that lends itself to teaching to mentoring and I think I said to at least one of you in my individual meeting I take pride in the word counsel when people call me counsel that goes right to my heart I believe in the ability of a lawyer
010to counsel their clients and although a school board is unique in that you're an entity that is a collection of seven individuals you need to work together and I believe as an attorney the collective advice I can provide to all of you will be able to it'll allow you to understand why I'm saying what I'm saying today about myself because I think I have the ability to bring people together and I also think I have the ability to lead now that may not be the point of this job but I think they're important in a lawyers ability to communicate with their client and so those are the things that I bring to this job why I'm interested in a position well I think I told all of you will anecdote I always bring up sports
011not that I'm in the minor leagues now but kind of in triple-a it's time to go to the majors it's time for me as a lawyer to step into a position that in essence for 24 years I feel like I've been preparing for and I'd be able to if that satisfies the answer but I can answer anything else you might want me to answer where do you feel that you would take the board attorney position in the next five years and please provide some examples regarding advocacy district levels legal services and training well I think some of the things that the board attorney can do are within their restraints or the constraints of what we face now I believe and I think all of this may have come out in other forums I believe this
012district is underserved legally in house I believe that a district with almost 100,000 students and 12,000 employees should avail itself of in-house legal counsel more than two attorneys I'm fond of saying that I've been here 13 years and after about eight years we had three lawyers and now we only have two we've gone backwards in my time here we've added 25,000 students so the question which is somewhat open-ended where would you take the board attorney position is I envision a legal department for this School District and how the board attorney fits into that is the board attorney should have at some point additional counsel under him or her well I believe how that's how it should evolve so if the board attorney takes a vacation or if someone's out of the office you all still
013have access to someone although nowadays we have really 24/7 access to everybody but I think there's a need for lawyers to collaborate I think good lawyers in a good working situation have other lawyers to collaborate with I just believe it's necessary to talk about legal issues it's necessary to talk about the law it's it's necessary to talk about political and social issues and the implications of decisions and with only two lawyers and the current set up being divided the way we have it divided that setup doesn't necessarily lend itself to that so I envision in five years a legal division for the school district but of course knowing full well we are strained for money we are in the business of educating children and that's the primary business here it's not lawyers and it never
014should be however I think and I said this to at least one or two of you we need to grow up as a school district we need we're no longer a little school district in a small little town this is big business here and I think we need to treat legal services similarly advocacy well you may be able to tell in the short time we've been talking today I'm an advocate that's what I believe in that's why I went to law school tell you a little bit about my past I was a legal aid attorney my first job was representing poor people in landlord-tenant cases and special education cases and I was in court all the time I then went to work for the state of New York and or I was in private practice
015for a brief period of time representing the Flagler County School District and kind of as they say went to the dark side and started representing school districts and in that job I was charged with basically providing every day representation to the school district the senior partner was the board attorney then I became a legal aid attorney again in New York and once again was handling poverty law issues which involve tremendous advocacy because you're fighting against the establishment in those jobs landlords trying to evict tenants folks trying to get food stamps or public benefits then I went to work for the state of New York and I was an advocate for the state of New York dealing with children that were incarcerated by the state of New York I eventually became their on buds Minh and
016I was then the representative that all of the children contacted when they had a problem with their facility that they were incarcerated in whether it was mail or talking to their parents or the ability to simply get free time or recess their schooling so I had to advocate on behalf of all of those young men and women okay that with the agency that I worked for which was an interesting juxtaposition which has really helped me tremendously in my current job as the staff attorney because there are times when I have to provide bad news to folks and say look at that school something happened and it was wrong and we violated a student or a parent's rights and we have to move on and and do better regarding training I think this is one area
017where something in the board's philosophy I think it's board policy 1.06 talks about being proactive and not reactive it's one of the philosophies of you all as a board and proactive to me means training when I was in dr. Pruitt's department in HR I did a lot more training than I do now in the position I'm in as a staff attorney in the superintendent's office but I think you all could benefit from training just in this setting let's talk about some issues or perceptions that you have of a certain law and how does that work and sit down I mean I enjoy teaching in fact tomorrow night I'm starting to teach for FGCU so I've taught at Ave Maria Nova and that's one of my strengths also is teaching so I think we can be
018much more proactive in the in the world of legal services relative to what board members confront and have to deal with would you give us a specific example of a time that your personal beliefs were in conflict with the position you had to take in your role a staff attorney how did you handle it what was the outcome well I think that's a great question and I think that's not hard for me to dig down and find one find an answer if any of you know or don't know I happen to be an advocate on LGBTQ issues I believe strongly on those issues and that comes from when I worked in the state of New York I dealt with a lot of LGBTQ students and when the President issued the edict regarding President Obama at
019the time the edict regarding bathrooms and how gender identity should be dealt with in school districts I thought that was a positive step I thought we were headed in the right direction well subsequently to that the country elected a new president who issued a follow-up memo and really rescinded the guidance from the Obama administration well I will tell you that I will follow that edict that is currently at least as far as things are concerned right now the state of this issue there's not a lot we can do about that issue however that may conflict with my personal beliefs but my job with as a board attorney or even now is the staff attorney is to provide advice based on the current state of the law and in doing so I will be honest and
020with the utmost integrity do that I have no problem in doing that my personal beliefs are irrelevant in that situation and they need to be irrelevant okay now I deal all the time with people that have a lot of different opinions as as the as the staff attorney I mean I'm dealing with school administrators and so their their minds are everywhere on a lot of different issues politically and socially because our people they're educators they're aware of what's going on around them so that's a common thing for a lawyer I mean you have to advocate the position of your client which I think I've been able to do I told you and explained I've been on both sides of special education issues I've represented parents and represented students there are times in my job where
021we have collectively determined that an employee should be terminated I may not personally have believed that but I have advocated that position I have gone to due process hearings on those issues in front of DOMA and we have prevailed and we have prevailed and looking back I would have say to myself well I probably wouldn't have gone that way but as an attorney I undertake and my client wants me to do so that's really I mean I could give you countless times when when that has occurred yes element to the healthy board member / attorney relationship explain how you plan to communicate with the board as a whole and also individual board members it's a great question and I know mr. Martin has done things for 19 years his way and I and I think
022that way may work for all of you but I think what's important is for me to ask all of you as a client if I'm honored to be I'm selected as the board attorney to ask all of you how you want to be communicated to I think that's of utmost importance having said that I pride myself on communication I know a number of you meet with the superintendent weekly and I don't I don't think there's any reason I can't piggyback on those meetings so if like this Morgan comes in at 3 o'clock she can meet with me at 4 o'clock I think it's important and even if it's just a touch base on a weekly basis and there's nothing hot going on I think it's important to just have those lines of communication I'm one
023that likes to sit down and learn about people I think it's important for me to know you all and what makes you tick and what you believe in as a board member and what led you to run for office and become elected and what your issues are that you feel strongly about I think that's so important for me to know as as the board attorney I do agree with the question it is a critical element I don't believe there's things that you should find out in some other way when if I had that information I could have told you I just don't think that's appropriate and I think a happy client is an informed client I've said that to you on I think information is valuable your elected officials you have to answer to the
024public you need to know things you need to know things and I think within parameters obviously sometimes there's things that may or may not be able to be out there but you take that information and you do with it what you need to do and I would provide advice saying I'm telling you this however this is student information that's not public and you can't provide that in a public forum what do you believe to be your greatest strength that you have not been able to do fully maximize as a staff attorney how will the strengths the apical as the board attorney I'm thinking because I think there's a few but I will say I think my greatest strength I talked about communication I don't want to talk about that again I think I want to
025talk about leadership and I have I think leadership skills that has the staff attorney I haven't been able to exhibit because I'm part of a big huge team and I have said this in plenty of cabinet meetings and I've said this in other forums not everybody can be the third hitter on the team not everybody can be the quarterback not everybody can be LeBron James the best player on the court everybody has a role okay and I am fully cognizant of that and I take my role as it is as the staff attorney but having said that there are ways in which we as human beings can blossom and one of the ways I can blossom is the ability to exhibit leadership skills for you all as a board now I don't for one minute
026intend to spend one day in your shoes that's not my job but I do believe public bodies in some way need to be led because you all ran for this position with your own issues and what you think but we have all been here and we know the system and if I can use that to lead you in some way as a lawyer because I'm not the superintendent that's your other employee I think that's something that's one of my great strengths that you as a board can benefit from I really believe that yes can you talk to the decision that the board made to vote what was the superintendent's recommendation to opt out of the common core you know there's we had a recommendation from the attorney the board took an action that was not
027necessary as you mean the testing issue the testing issue yes thank you thank you yeah I think on that issue I'm probably reluctant to tell you exactly how I would have advised you I think putting you in an awkward spot what I think once again we're getting back to information and we're getting back to the law and the rules and I'll be honest with you in my job and I can't disclose what I may have advised the superintendent I just can't do that or what that communication back to me was but there was scrambling going on to figure out what the rules and even what we did and didn't have to do going on at that time and I think if there's anything that could have been done is there could have been more of
028an education piece at the board table oh okay and I say that knowing and I think you all know this full well that I have the utmost respect for mr. Martin and I have the utmost respect for the job that he's in and but I don't think there was a fully informed board republic for that matter on that issue I think emotions got carried away I think there was it's a divisive issue and I think fully informed board may be saying hold on let's breathe do we have to make decisions tonight there's motions flying I think leadership in that respect may have been able to make things a little bit better I mean it's a divisive issue so I don't know if you're ever going to get a totally clean situation there comes to me
029I know I'm taking finishing my night so please I'm taking diligent notes I'm glad how would you handle a situation where you and a board member disagreed about either an issue or a course of action well I think I think those are two different things at issue or a course of action I don't know who wrote the questions I'm not criticizing but I think a course of action is much more significant than disagreeing on an issue of course of action suggest you're doing something and one of the things that I wanted to tell you all today is I read your board protocols and I've reviewed them and I think there's a great chart in there that was provided by the Florida School Boards Association about the division of powers if you will between a board
030and a superintendent and the thing I got from that which I've always known is that you recommend you suggest but on the administrative side of the district Act okay so a course of action suggest you're acting in some way which I'll just simply I guess talk about an issue I think I don't think what I believe or the advice I provide you if it's followed or not should put me in a situation where I have an issue with that I provide legal advice to you as a board you can question that you can ask me more questions about it you can suggest that you don't think that's the right way to do things and none of that honestly will hurt my feelings I think the key is for me to be well thought out to
031research and provide you the best advice that I think I can provide and that I will provide and use all the resources that I have including colleagues and other districts and the ability to to dig down for 24 years of my experiences and and provide you advice if you disagree with my course of action that's okay that happens if you are not an advocate for your client that will never happen because you're not putting yourself out there but your job as a lawyer is to advocate a position that you think is in the best interests of your client and if you as a board take a position that's contrary to the legal advice of the board attorney that's the board's decision and I would certainly live with that and I would be happy to explain
032all of that to you individually if that in fact comes up but I am NOT going to ever provide you legal advice that I think you want to hear that's not my job that is not my job and may making you unpop me unpopular in some respects but I think in the long run and this is what it's about right the long run ultimately and I've done that here here for 13 years in the long run I believe the advice I've provided to my clients in this school district they realize he was right about that one that satisfies the question everybody sorry I came at the top of page page four I just want to say provided some questions I asked mr. dodyk some questions when we were together and the way he responded I
033felt it was very important so I submitted those to miss to dr. Pruitt so that you could because I wanted him to articulate and I let him know that those questions are gonna be asked again because I really I felt those issues were important for him to particularly to the whole group from a legal perspective what do you believe is the weakest area of this and most school boards how can you assist in improving on that weakness not about you in fact I do want to say this I've been here 13 years and I have worked under or with some cohesive boards some of which you have been members of at least mr. Tolbert dr. cocoa however I will say that currently this is as cohesive and as good a board as I've seen in
034this district in my 13 years so I'm not blowing smoke I just want you to know that the weakest area I don't know if I can identify a weak area of this board currently I think I'm sure I can come up with one offhand I do say this I think the weakness of the system okay I'm not necessarily advocating this and I'm stealing this from one of your colleagues but I do think the weakness of the system is the elected nature of school boards in general relative to the politics and all that goes on the University and college system in Florida with appointed boards of trustees seems to work more fluently there's not a lot of politics going on at least in the public it seems to they seem to be able to have some
035harmony and get things done at that level okay having said that the system's not changing so I'm well aware of that so I think the weaknesses of most school boards that I am familiar with is something we've talked about which is those boundaries that line that blurs and the line between taking administrative action and being a board member advising or coming up with recommendations I think that's the weaknesses of a school board school boards in general because you have to answer to the public and that's okay that's what who you were elected by however there has to be trust in administration and staff and the board attorney for that matter and the superintendent that things will be handled appropriately so I have seen in my 13 years here that line hitler'd and that's when things
036become confusing I had graciously a board member asked me the other day for lack of knowing can I talk to you about this situation that was coming from my office and I appreciated that question because I understood that the board member would not know and my answer was respectfully I can't talk to you about that because it could come before you as a quasi judicial body and so I think I think those questions are important for board members to ask legal advisors but I do understand the system I think I bring up the University and college system because those folks are not elected so therefore not held their constituents are not bothering them all the time I guess so to speak or asking questions but that the democratic system we have it seems to work
037in some respects and but I think that's a weakness for most school boards for you all I mean I see good work being done I think the dilemma and the weakness for our school board is not inflicted by you all it's being inflicted by Tallahassee it's pulling control away from a local school board and suggesting that someone else can make better decisions on things like funding and other issues and I think that is the inherent threat to our system the you are eventually are not gonna have a lot of things to do if that continues and that is a weakness in our system not in you as a school board I think that's been brought upon you how can I improve it well how can I assist assist you in improving on that we can
038answer that part of that question I think like I told you one of my skills is leading one of my skills is providing advice that is not only the legal aspects of what a school board can and cannot do but I think I have the ability to determine or at least look at the social and political ramifications of everything you all do I am an information person input is one of my big strengths and I like information I can sort of tell what's going on I have unfortunately I watch too much news and watch what's going on in the world and but I think that can benefit the board I really do and I think that can assist maybe improving on on the weakness I mean I've been trying to improve on the weakness by
039helping with the legislative part of this school district and feel very strongly and passionate about public education I'm a product of it and I think you all are fighting and we need to continue to fight absolutely as the board attorney you will be working with the superintendent on a daily basis so how would you maintain the fact that we report directly to the board yeah I think that's a great question I hopefully answered that individually with all of you but the current superintendent and I go back 13 years I was sitting in his office 13 years ago interviewing for the staff attorney job I won't hide that he's been a big benefit to my career and I appreciate everything however one thing that I think I made clear to you is dr. Atkinson and I
040haven't always haven't always seen eye-to-eye on issues I've had plenty of disagreements with him I've had plenty of issues with him not that's how I will deal with him but I think it's clear that a separation between this board attorney and the superintendent in some respects is necessary however what I will say is the collaboration between the two positions as it is currently constituted needs to improve and I think I can be a benefit to dr. Atkins however that benefit only goes to the point where I believe I can go with what my client wants to do as a school board there will be times when the school board and the superintendent are not on the same sheet of paper and my job is to advise the school board however we are the only two
041employees currently there's an auditor position we're the only two employees I shouldn't say we the school board attorney and the superintendent are the only two employees of this board so there is some synergy that's necessary there's a reason for that and if you look at the job description if you look at the board protocols the superintendent and the school board attorney are supposed to work pretty much together and I've seen that happen I've seen that really work in this district and I think we can improve upon that so then my second questions are followed to that I'm if there was a recommendation coming from the superintendent that was not in compliance with the law and not a good recommendation would you advise the board in advance yes and I would advise the superintendent in advance
042yes absolutely would you stay current on legal issues that could potentially affect the school district and what about legislation well the first question is I mean I think we all today have the ability to stay current on legal issues not just lawyers I mean the internet and the world wide web which unfortunately or fortunately has kind of grew up with me career-wise I think when I was in law school we had Westlaw or Nexus but it wasn't like it is now and you can pretty much read a case without paying for it today he never used to even be able to do that so as I told you I'm an input person I'm an information person so I do stay current on legal issues relative to the news and other sources the Florida school board
043Attorneys Association of which I'm again a member for 13 years is an invaluable resource to us it's kind of a parallel organization to FS ba fads the superintendent's Association joy Frank their legal counsel is an invaluable resource we have school board attorneys that have believe it or not we have some emeritus folks Ned Julian and others Ned's been a school board attorney for about seventy years I think he was and he still participates on our listserv where we exchange information with each other and some things hey did you is this happening with you all no but maybe it will and that's how we kind of find trickle-down information there's plenty of folks that like to make public records requests around the state in every school district some districts get them before we do well we
044know that kind of thing is probably coming so that's an invaluable resource I attend conferences FS PAA has quarterly meetings that I attend I belong to the Council of School Attorney's cosa which is under the school boards association so I try albeit in my current position which sometimes is like triaging in an emergency room but I try to read an hour or so a day on on relevant case law on things that are going on that are relevant to school districts so I think all of those things help me stay current legislation as you know for at least the past two years I've been intimately associated with handling or at least trying to be the liaison for the school district relative to our lobbyists previously with mr. Cerra and now with Miss green legislation is
045kind of interesting because you can get surprised I mean we had some surprises this year finding out things through other sources and things which I feel like maybe should never happen but it seems to so especially at the end of session when thing gets stuffed in bills or or others one of you miss Patrika actually you know would email and say how did when did this get put in and sometimes you have to dig and find out oh you know that was brought up in a committee or wasn't ever even went to committee so that is a little bit more of a difficult chore and I think and I and I have advocated with all of you I think that I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to have an insane house person dedicated
046to that kind of role full-time I've thought that I believe in that I've expressed that to the superintendent but as the board attorney I would be certainly on top of all of that and I think in the new job description some of that is in there which if I was honored to get the position I'm real happy about because I kind of enjoy that world I know that sounds may be sadistic in this climate but I enjoy knowing what laws are going to be passed or possibly passed so I would look forward to that no I don't mean another attorney not necessarily no I think a person with legal background would be helpful of course I always advocate for lawyers but no I don't I don't think so I think there was some thought given
047in fact I participated on the interview committees for a legislative person that was also going to be a community relations type person some of which dr. Carlin has undertaken and I think we had some real great candidates that we offered positions to and they chose not to come here unfortunately so I think that position I know this year that's probably not possible but I think it should still be in the mix I really believe that and I think that would not only aid our current lobbyists they would aid folks in house here too or state of Florida mr. Tovar might be able to take 30 credits every two years and I'm also admitted in New York however I don't have to participate in CLE in New York because I don't practice there currently but I
048still have to pay dues in New York other than about 50 minutes ago no I'm just kidding well that's a great question because this my current job doesn't come without stress and I'm not going to necessarily talk specifics I don't think that's fair to people involved but you all know in general sense that we had a significant cycle of superintendents over the past four or five years six years and during one of the terms of that superintendent things around here got pretty stressful and how did I handle it well I think we seek out folks that we love and care about and that love us and care about them and I think talking about things is the best way to handle stress I think we can seek out professionals to do that we can talk
049to our loved ones we can deal with our issues the way we think is best some people pray some people whatever works for people what works for me is talking about things and what also works for me as bizarre as this may sound is the truth and honesty because they will always set you free and so if you're in a stressful situation and you're honest with yourself and you're honest and truthful with what occurred I'm not gonna lie I had to go speak to the inspector general about that superintendent situation and I told them what was happening and there's no more liberating a feeling than doing that so you handle it with the truth you're honest and I don't think you'll ever go wrong and that's and I will I pledge to you that I
050would always do that with you all the situation where you had to solve a difficult problem what did you do what was the outcome and what do you wish you have done differently I'm not necessarily in the position of solving problems I think I'm in the position of providing advice that will allow others to solve problems I think but there's throughout life throughout it doesn't say at work necessarily I mean I think I went through divorce in my life there's no more difficult a problem in a person's life even death I think a divorce is more difficult than a death and the outcome for me was I had to go back to my family I had to be around the people that loved me and the outcome was I met my wife I had a
051child I moved back to Florida I've been in this wonderful County for 13 years what I wish I had done differently is I wish my first marriage worked my ex-wife is a special education teacher in Volusia County she's a wonderful person I'll never know why it didn't work when was the last time you thought outside the box and how did you do it why about three seconds ago question that way but I thought it's important to not just talk about work all the time I think you're hiring an attorney who's also a person and I think it's important for you all to know that lawyers it's a great question because lawyers don't get to think outside the box very often we're in that box were one thing I'm fond of saying although I know other
052people in other professions make what you're always a lawyer and I know we have a couple in this room I mean even when you're home even when you're outside your job or where you're where you work your office or court or wherever you do your business but you're always a lawyer so the ability to think out the box I'd the Box professionally for me is very difficult to tell you that oh yeah I've done that ten times this week no that's not that's not reality you cannot provide the proper legal counsel and advice with your client if you're constantly coming up with outside the box thinking that's not what a client needs to hear now there are people in this school district that are in jobs including dr. Pruitt and others we're thinking outside the
053box is part of their job and then what they do is they consult legal counsel and say hey is this okay do you think we can do this do you think it's okay to go to the legislature and ask them to pay for scholarships for students that may not seem outside the box now but it was when we first thought of it absolutely and I was a part of that do you think it's outside the box to go to a job fair and offer people contracts on the spot when I came here and we started discussing that I thought that was a little bit risky but then when I heard there's five or six hundred job openings a year by all means let's figure out a way to do that and I participated in drafting
054the job offer document that we currently use and it's been refined over the years so the last time I thought outside the box honestly was when I answered your question about the previous question that mr. Tovar asked about difficult problems so not long ago and but I think in my personal life I think I'm I think outside the box often but I can't I don't think a lawyer can do it necessarily all the time professionally I just don't think you're not coming to me I don't think mr. Giovanelli to say hey come up with a novel legal idea for this if you are then by all means tell me and we'll try to do that but I think you're coming to me for consistent clear zealous advocacy and advice that's that's what I think a
055lawyer should be doing I'm just reading the next one excuse me mr. dodyk would you tell us about a time that your tenacity our resilience really paid off during your time as staff attorney what was the outcome well I think I'm going to answer that question I'm gonna bifurcate the question so to speak I think tenacity and resilience I think tenacity I can tell you over the years I've been tenacious in advising certainly Human Resources on certain issues relative to what's appropriate for instance on our employment application there was a time ok when we asked individuals what their date of graduation from high school was on an application and we were advised by the EEOC and a Lee County office of equal opportunity which existed at the time that it's easy to determine how old
056someone is by their date of graduation from high school and that could lead to an age discrimination claim well and dr. Pruitt still has these meetings but when I was in HR there was always Friday meetings with the leadership group in HR and I was part of that dr. Atkins was there at the time and I was tenacious in telling our folks in personnel and our computer folks that dealt with the online applications that you need to remove that question well back then we had a system called binocular and the computer system was very difficult to manipulate well that's what a long time to remove and I but I constantly was today it comes to mind because I wasn't here that long at that point and I kept thinking to myself where they must really
057think I'm like totally overbearing on this issue and it came to mind as soon as you said that I was just tenacious about us making sure that problem was cured and honestly age discrimination based on that kind of thing never did come about in any of our cases but I've also been tenacious I think in advocating in my job as crazy as this sounds because I do represent the district but advocating for those groups that are marginalized in our community I feel as though we're on the cusp of an agreement with the n-double-a-cp and I think the resilience and tenacity tenacity of people like myself and dr. bohat and others is finally going to pay off and I think an agreement is great but we need to continue to move forward we need to continue
058to move forward for those young children that I hear about every night from my wife that come to Edgewood Elementary that can't speak English whose parents can't speak English and we have to enroll them and provide them as best education we can well what are we going to do about that issue and we need to move forward and we need to continue to be tenacious about those issues currently I think we were confronted with an issue going on in our public schools regarding violence that we've never seen before and what are we going to do about those issues we can bash past bills like 70 26 and not fund them enough and say this is enough no it's not children should not be afraid to go to public school so what are we going to
059do about that are we not as a school board are you not going to talk about guns are you not going to talk about the issues that are relevant to us as a society I think that's as the board attorney maybe I can lead you in that direction because I think that's relevant for school boards to talk about I really do and I'm passionate about those issues and tenacious and resilient and some of the outcomes of these things are TBA or TBD to be determined I mean we don't know but I think I could go on and on about I what I believe our social political issues that school boards need to confront and I think some of your boards in other counties have they have in some way or another a resolution from a
060school board does mean something words mean things and there are people in groups that need to know that the school board supports them tell us about a time when your initiative at work caught caused a change to occur what was the situation and what was the outcome it's just that I kind of did I mean I will tell you that there's a lot of credit to go around but one of the most obvious outcomes I think of some of the advocacy that I've done with others is the creation of the office of diversity and inclusion I believe the situation you all know the situation I mean we you know we have we have a situation to confront in this community and I have been and just last week went to the stars complex and spoke
061once again with dr. bohat and others about the district and a passion for those issues I think my initiative I'm not gonna take credit for all of it I think I've been a participant in that I've been a significant participant in the development of restorative practices in this school district I kind of try to fly under the radar on some of these things because administrators need to take responsibility for them but I am a strong advocate of not suspending students out of school I am a strong advocate in doing everything we can to not expel students from school obviously the Florida Legislature has seen fit that if the child brings a firearm to school they have to be expelled and I respect that however giving children no chance is never a good thing so those
062are a couple of things that I feel strongly about that I was involved in if you would call them initiatives I think I was an integral part of would you please tell us anything you would like us to know about you that will aid us in making this decision about me B regrets so no I'm just kidding I don't know I'm not gonna sit here into my own work I will say this I don't think there's any better person suited for this job than me so I'll just tell you that I believe in myself I as you can tell I have a lot of love in my heart for what I do in this school district and I think I'm the best candidate for the job and 13 years from now 14 15 years from
063now hopefully I'm still sitting in that position and all of you will look back maybe some of you will still be on the school board I don't know what's gonna happen with term limits I'm glad we hired Rob to be the board attorney that's a good idea thank you take a five no break you we're ready to resume so I am going to ask dr. Pruitt to take us through what she would recommend as next steps for this process well I think at this time it would be appropriate to get feedback from the group and see what if you can come to consensus on what you would like the next two action to be at this point the choice choices would be to extend an offer to mr. dodyk - that's one option another option
064is to take some time think about it and provide me feedback individually - which then I could communicate to you as chair or you could determine at this time that you would wish to you know the only other option would be to hire a search firm okay so how many people would like to discuss what we've heard amongst ours I know some of you asked for panel so that you'd have an opportunity to discuss so I'm just sort of throwing it open to you all what would you like to discuss with your colleagues about this appointment well one of the reasons I wanted to do a panel is because we're all asking the same question at the same time we're hearing the same answer at the same time so it makes it easier to ship
065ensure that we're all getting the same information appropriately so I appreciate that I also you know that you can get a lot about people and I've sat in on other interviews with targeted questions with schools and as we would do those you get your answers but there's a lot that happens from the demeanor and also interconnectedness with the people on the team so I that's one of the benefits I believe that we have for this I am I was there were certain pieces that came through to me that I will share with you and that was a his passion definitely does come through his eye I like the fact I have often wanted to have more training than than just ethics I believe that aspect of of providing us some guidance and I again don't
066workshop to be a just a workshop for a workshop but I do believe that we all could benefit from learning more and even beyond the ethics that we do get with FSB a with our training and the other part that came in to me was that I kept going back is as he shared he learned a lot about his character and one's character is very important to me as I look I'm an attorney and so that aspect came to me that this is a man of character tell us the question I should have asked is there anything we missed in the process of doing it this way that you wish should have done or feel you need to do in order to make a decision about the board attorney just for me I had nothing
067to really compare to that's probably the piece that I think is missing unfortunately we don't have another candidate to compare just that alone and especially me being new I feel that that is that's not there for me to even to make a really full why Rob I don't have anything negative but I don't have anything to compare it to that's just my thing I guess that's my biggest piece for me rather than the president president our president attorney and then what our experience with robbed so I only have that's the only piece I have I mean III I can empathize with with Melissa you know I've had the experience the ability to deal with a lot of board attorneys in the different school districts through the years and some of them professionally and actually Keith
068Martin's best friend there in a poke I actually trained with him for as a certified mediator so he spent two weeks together and surprisingly the stories he told me about Keith Keith never let it on about that their relationship but it was it slowly interesting a whole different side of Keith I learned that when I confronted them in turn I never seen Keith turn so red before but but it was quite it was quite easy because the dynamics the personalities between how quiet wes is the complete aunt the thesis of Keith and for them to have served together in the military on the same Jag Corps you know as close as they are really a yin and yang it's really really interesting but anyway so I can understand Lisa I guess you know my point
069with Robert or any in that position you know we want to look at the skills of the candidate the experience and knowledge and not only spirits of knowledge of as a board attorney but also you know how he functions in legal aspects and you know we've seen him and blazes seeing him for the probably the youngest as a few and Chris other of us have seen him for longer and then but to see how adept he is with doing you know he served as our own board attorneys several positions but you've seen how he's handled with our students so I mean we've really as far as I don't think there is anybody out there in the state of Florida with the depth and breadth of skill and experience and knowledge if that person were to
070come if it were to be John Paul Carlin from the West Coast it was who was here now he served over there I don't think anyone would stack up to the credentials that we have with with mr. dodyk the other part of it is the issue and the biggest thing is I've seen a lot of people that I've known professionally in my prior life you know in manufacturing that I know they're good because they're in a with a competitor so I know what they can do and I pull them into my company and the one thing you don't know until they're in your organization is how do they fit what's the synergy what's their personality how do you know what you're getting and that's a huge that's a huge wildcard and I've had people that
071I've dealt with for years that I you know they were a client you know they were a customer that we were they're a supplier base or on the other side they were in both ends up and down the chain then I would pull him into my organization because they were that good it was just like a train wreck and I'm like holy cow you know that I just didn't know that part about him working you know in our organization and I would come to me pick my you know my people would go you know he's just not fitting this is different with with Rob because we've seen he interacts with our staff we've seen how he interacts with our superintendent and with our board for the most part that's a really huge thing so I
072mean I wasn't that much he as the process goes going along I didn't expect to have everybody fallout but in reality when I you know I met with dr. Pruitt with it really wasn't that much of a shock to me because all the people that apply just have no clue they don't even know what they don't know and the ones that you know didn't apply because they know we're good but he's better so his colleagues didn't apply because they knew if we got in a got in this in the ring we're just really wasting our time and wasting you guys his time because that's really he's the best guy for the job and they all conceded that even though that would have been your comparison because I know there's certain people in a smaller districts
073would say what they love to be at Lee County but they're like we can't compete with this dude because he's just got you know he's been there for 13 years he knows the skeletons and in particularly Lee County especially for the superintendent say we've seen fly through here like a revolving door you know the history and the nuances and the and the uniqueness of Lee County you can't find that anywhere I mean we've really got idiosyncrasies in our community it is what it is and if you don't understand them when you're giving it in legal advice you're setting people up that it may be the right legal advice but it's not weighted with with the surroundings you may really set this board up for something that's really gonna blow up and I think the Lee
074County has benefited the fact that he's lived through some of this stuff and the biggest one you know for example you know our whole desegregation order all that experience that's really a big deal and for somebody to not understand it that's those are the priceless new things I don't think we get but for donating like I said Paul Carlin was the only one that I thought would even have a chance you know we lost a really good at attorney with Heather you know they found places I mean they got soaked up because we really had some good counsel in this in this district that wood that we left and everybody cuz I know some of you know this but I mean I did some proactive reaching out to some of these people and that is
075exactly what they said that they I mean so that's been confirmed by people actually saying those words to me or to somebody on my staff so just so you know that and it's different and I should just coach the thing in the legal it's not that it's not like in a superintendent that they're not doing it because of the bias because he's working here that they that they don't feel they're applying like the superinten you know internal positions because that's more political this is more an illegal level it's where do I fit you know as far as to where do I stack up as far as horsepower and that's the reason the lawyers wouldn't do it same you know and that's the same thing when you look at when you plan for judges and stuff
076people don't do it and I'm gonna talk about Matt against a sitting judge but if there's new people running for judge chips they'll see somebody applying for a judgeship they're not doing it because he's more politically active it's just they know him pull it you know professionally you know they don't match up and people don't run we just want what Steve said I was appalled when I saw the applications like those who had applied because it was clear they did not read what we were looking for and I so if I was just stunned and I thought you know if that's what we're getting and I knew that you were definitely out there trying to see if anybody was willing to leave and come over here so no but but in deference to what Pam
077saying those attorneys that applied I don't fault them they people don't know meliza learned Chris learned recently I learned when I first came in when I first came in I had no idea what I didn't know they have no idea how complex of a organization and an entity this is and when you get in there it blows your mind and they don't even know they're there thinking in their little legal realm they don't even know what they're getting what they're getting themselves into guys know I'm a note-taker so I wrote some words down I think Rob was a great communicator and I think as far as his character he really lays himself out there he definitely is motivated I think to take us forward even in our personal conversation he talked about how this district
078really does have a need to grow up and I think he repeated it here and he has a plan for that so I mean I think that's important he has experience he's accomplished a lot and he definitely has the skills so you know I don't know if we went out and looked some more if we were gonna get anything better than what we saw in that folder for the people who applied previously he knows the district he has the institutional knowledge and he certainly has a passion for this is his home and he has a passion for John and it seems to me like he's been thinking about this you know for quite a while and I definitely felt confident when I had the experience for a couple years when I was the legislative liaison
079I mean I could not have done that effectively without him and he does his homework he was very thorough and made everything easy to comprehend so I really think that he can can be a leader and help us and advise us ahead of time about things that we need to know about because I'll go back to the testing vote had I been I've been fully informed before that things may have been different I asked the question did we miss anything do people feel that we need to continue the process with respect to we've missed something in this interview or we've missed something in the process of doing this then my other question would be is there something the candidate doesn't have that we feel we need that's essential as we go forward that would cause
080us to you know feel obligated to okay so mrs. terka haven't heard from you we haven't heard from you public panel interviews make me very uncommon why we don't have other applicants because they saw the writing on the wall and I don't mean you know he was the heir apparent and we were gonna give him the job no matter what I think they looked at their resumes and compared them to him and I think that going hiring a headhunter to come in and help us find somebody out-of-state is a giant waste of time because that person getting up to see Pete on tour the law is it's gonna set us back so you know I initially was very disappointed that we only had one qualified applicant but then I realized what was happening against a
081guy who's so respected that and I'm talking respect across the state you know about respect here about his colleagues across the state they get it okay so I guess what we do then is we make a recommendation I don't know how this works because I've never hired anybody but we do we look to you to make a recommendation or how does it work it goes on the so I'm I'm will based on the conversation I will make a recommendation that you move forward with the motion to begin negotiations with mr. dodyk for the position of board attorney I believe it is appropriate that it can be done similarly to your other employee and so that mr. Martin since he's still here and I know there was some some conversation around probably not as much of
082a need for overlap but now angela has to find a staff attorney so anyway so you know the sooner we can begin that process I feel the better and then maybe some conversation on the parameters of that negotiation and what this group is what it you know how you want that to have and can it can we do what we did with dr. Atkins which is see the contract that we have we received I don't know if you have the way back you might have you've seen it recently too when it came I want to say okay and I know we've done the ERI and comparables across the state relative to that position so we can you know we provide that if that would be helpful so jus but just some direction or on how
083you want that to take place so job description whatever evaluation is done the previous the current contract in place and comparables if you could get that out to all of us so today is Tuesday so we can add it promotion on Tuesday's meeting yeah good cause okay dr. prude I know that you have had to run searches for really important jobs not that every job the district isn't very important but really important jobs and you have brought us people like dr. Creole and Trey Davis and I'm 100% certain that you're gonna bring just as qualified a candidate to replace you know to get us a good staff attorney who's gonna move us forward so I know the work is hard and I know you don't sleep anymore I really do Thank You Wilson thank you
084I just have a question do we get any input from from the candidate regarding if they have any requests contract it would be the same as you're doing with your other employee he would he or his representative would work with mr. Martin to negotiate that so yeah and again I'll provide I'll talk to the candidate and I'll you know do that so to help facilitate the conversation okay so tell me you want the job description current contract I know we did discuss redoing that evaluation at the same time so let's not you know what let's not muddy the water okay that's whole the evaluation because it's not really a good one so but I can begin that work in the background and then the comparables okay and then I would say if we're aiming for
085Tuesday today is Wednesday so we've got to get comments to Keith tomorrow today I can one going forward on Tuesdays only to begin negotiations but we don't we don't have to do our comments yet until we get because she'll start a negotiation she'll start her process we that won't be for two weeks after yeah so you'll do at the Tuesday's meeting what I see happening is the recommendation to move forward with negotiations and then we'll do the same I'll get that information out to you if we I'll get I know we have some contracts because I know some of you like to see the contracts of comparable folks so we can see what we can do there all right so we're talking then about finalizing this at the same time well you really if if
086you wanted to we could exceed do that at the June 26 for July 1 start that would give you a month overlap and that would provide me time to do a search for a staff attorney so there isn't as much of a ok rush but we could if we if you can do if we can good cause that recommendation then we can at least have a month friend for the bless you for the negotiation to take place really good about hiring Rob so for me I feel like I have a question I felt like that I can go to him and he's gonna be easier to speak to I haven't always felt like that so I just maybe it's because I know him a little bit better I feel like but his personality is very
087very welcoming and so I do want to I didn't want to add that I didn't want him and I'm ok if you haven't circled numbers so you can just give me what you have been more that will be perfectly appropriate so whatever you have you can give to me now ok