001How are you? It's >> good to see you. We >> got enough to eat here for >> I will call our meeting to order for November 18th. The bond oversight committee. If you would please stand for the pledge of allegiance and Mr. Grimes will lead us in invocation. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Heavenly Father, thank you for gathering us here tonight. Thank you for traveling safely. Thank you for all the participants here today that are willing to give their time for to make betterment for our children and our community. Lord, thank you for our school district, its leaders as they educate [clears throat] our children and our next generation.
002Lord, thank you for the architects and the hands and the feet and the contractors that build it. May their glory come to you, Lord. Just watch over us all as we travel this evening. Be with our families as we go through Thanksgiving and give all the thanks to you in your name. Amen. >> Amen. [clears throat] >> First item of business is approval of the minutes from our last meeting, September 17th. They're in your packet. >> Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to approve the minutes unless someone has a correction or addition or >> I have a correction. >> Okay. U in the last meeting, we agreed and we're told we did provide a total cost summary. >> Is it in the minutes? >> It should be. >> It is in the It's in the
003minutes. >> It is. >> We're asking for corrections. >> Oh, I thought it was That's Is that in the minutes? I see. >> It's in the minutes. I'm looking at it. >> Okay. Tell me where it is. Uh third line from the bottom of the first paragraph >> first paragraph >> he was requesting >> it says that you requested it in June and then requested it again. >> I just missed it. >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. >> So no correction. I have a motion. Do I have a second? >> Second from Andy. >> All in favor? >> I >> All right. I know one participant needs to get out pretty quick. You want to go first? >> Who had a softball? Some >> So, we're going to go with some project updates first. We have
004lots of stuff in our packet, so you can start wherever you tell us. >> Okay. No. Um, I'm just here to give an update a little bit with the PLA intermediate. Uh, you know, things are just closing out. we uh you know turn turning over all the closeout documents. Uh just a few you know final little things. There's you know one been back order on some uh uh uh wall coverings for the sophets and it's just been you know back order back order and you know I I hate to sit there and tell you it'll be in you know the next 20 days like they've told me because they told me that 40 days ago. So, you know, every time it just keeps pushing back. So, but that we we have that. Um, there's a
005few little things I think that we're working out with Thomas Travis with adding some security cameras and uh and doing things like that that you see that's, you know, in the contingency log. And, uh, outside that, you know, everything's [snorts] just cleaned up and, you know, ready to ready for you guys to move in. >> So, the furniture is in move basically. >> Yeah. All the all the close out surveying's done. >> Furniture. >> Oh, furniture. No, that's uh >> That's the school does that. That's not part of our contract. >> February. >> How about the cover play area? So, we've, you know, we actually we had to wait for the ponds to finally dry out and this week we actually had the borings done to uh see if those ponds are going to be
006sufficient enough for the covered playground area. So, we're still in a a holding pattern on that, but I think that contingency log, we actually have already kind of accounted for that cost out of contingency in hopes that is going to be built and and uh and then even with that being put in place, I think we have over a million dollars still being returned in contingency. So, >> So, so uh won't we use the whole contingency then is what I hear you say. No, no, I don't believe so. >> Uh, just want to comment that this is a very important time for this committee because we're closing out this contract. Very important that we look at over carefully. Uh, I sent three questions. As you know, these contracts cost contracts and I sent three questions
007into Alice and >> four questions. Yeah, I turned in for what was the original question, but I got it in very quick and good summary from Austin >> and that is on your table. It's a packet has a copy of Dr. Hunter's question. Um, >> and I can summarize they don't match the summary we have here. >> We have >> well ours also gets more current. Our ours is completely to date as of >> this is current last week. Sir >> the summary is doesn't have the contingency properly accounted for and uh the general conditions the the three questions were how' the contracts do subcontract and we got a summary of all those contracts by name and and they they included actually what they paid to the contractor minus the material cost and the tax
008and material cost that was accounted for in a different summary place but you can scan down that see how much each contractor was paid and then you add to that the material cost and you get pretty pretty much everything right on track. Secondly, the contingency. There's a log of contingency which starts at the beginning goes all the way through of all contingency actions and that end up with about a million plus in contingency and the other general conditions which are the the general construction manager's cost of work they actually do. And that was actually less than the amount that was in the GMP. So the bottom line is there's probably if I if Tell me if I got this wrong, Todd, but basically the U there's about four $4 million under. Is that right? Am
009I right on? >> Yeah. Complete from what we had for the guaranteed maximum price >> from the GMP. It's about $4 million in total. >> Less general. Yeah. General conditions are less which you know they they're cost. paid the cost contingency is less and then there's the odds and ends and the net effect >> and some of that was built in. We had allowances that were part of that that you know >> didn't get used at all. >> Yeah. The the modified cost was 56 something. >> Right. >> So bottom line is if you look over all those all those facts about the three things that matter my judgment is we're in pretty good shape on that. >> That was my next question. How do you feel about >> I feel [laughter] I feel good
010about it. It's a comprehensive summary on contingency. There's always a danger that if you go crazy on contingency, both parties could go crazy. It didn't look like it. And then the general conditions came in under that that means there wasn't that much work that has to be done. >> I have a question. >> Um CRA gets paid by a percentage of the GMP. Is that right? So >> not the GMP of the actual cost >> of the actual cost. We don't pay the GM pay. We pay the actual cost. That's what they get a percentage of. >> Okay. I submitted a question about how much CRA has been paid to to find out and I haven't gotten an answer. >> Make sure that we aren't paying for a higher estimate. >> It's correct. >> Is
011it total? >> They they passed it out right at the beginning. >> Yeah. Is it total? >> Is it total? >> Yes, it is. It has a total. Okay. Y come up. >> Yeah. Uh, Miss Stanley also asked a question of total CRA payments. Um, and that's also included >> in your packet. >> And actually, I guess I'll turn it over to Greg, but I just want to say thank you guys and uh we really have enjoyed working with you you guys and uh and everybody have a great Thanksgiving and happy holidays. >> So, >> I can't say enough about their response. >> Questions came in. Alice got him last week >> in right after having cataract surgery. So >> yeah. [laughter] Yeah. But but they got right on him and they got the detailed
012answers back and was no problem. >> I appreciate that. >> That was good on their part. >> I I'm I'm here if I need to answer anything about CRA's questions. >> Before we do that, can we go back to what Dr. Hunter said? So you said about how much is going to go back, Dr. Hunter? 4 million. >> I think about four million. I'm trying to I got so much information. We're trying to find the notes >> and I should I should probably know the answer to this but I don't. So where does that 4 million go back to? >> It just it's unspent. >> Just wasn't spent. >> It just stays in the >> It goes back to what budget item and where is it accounted? >> In the pool of bond funds. >>
013It goes back in it goes back in the checking account basically. >> So it goes to the next school then that needs it >> essentially. Okay. Okay. >> That means there'll be a little more. >> So that goes back to your questions that you had at the last meeting about unused funds. Correct. >> Thank you. >> I know. I want to say I did tour the school. Miss Jones was there with me. It really looks nice and as well. >> Yeah, that's right. You >> It's a beautiful facility. >> Yeah, it is. And they have schools like that when I was growing up. >> I see it from the outside every morning, but I hadn't been inside. >> Oh, it's beautiful. >> Miss Stanley, did you have questions for Greg? >> Um, not right this
014second. No. >> Okay. >> Any questions for CRA or Greg at the moment? Dr. >> These summaries um always are mysterious. Uh this as we just pointed out the summary we have for black intermediate is not current. It implies that there's $800,000 of contingency left. That's not correct. >> It's more than that. And >> so actually I don't want I'm trying I don't want >> so some of that why there's line items that we had that were that we're just trying to clean up our pay application to get 100% out that we actually move those access funds up to contingency. And so ours is just more up to date than what >> probably going off of what the last >> I think it's a timing question, right? >> Yeah. We we're asked a week a
015week early to turn in something and I call we call the guys and talk to them say, "Okay, where you at with this? Where we at with this today?" And and >> we're a week behind. >> But the the format at this point, the foreman has the GMP as though that's has something to do with the cost. It does. If you read this, it looks like uh we got the GMP minus the material cost 47, which is not a useful number. >> I agree. It looks like it. >> It's not terribly useful. It looks like it's a reduced cost, but it's not. >> The question really is $12 million. >> What is the cost to date? The GMP, what's the cost to date? And what's the balance of unspent funds? >> Which just for the
016packet that had I don't know if you want to look at it, but that had Dr. Qu Dr. Hunter's question on top. Is it the most up-to-date number? The 50 >> 56 47. So, >> so that's the number to pay attention to >> and we'll we'll modify the updates going forward to reflect reflect it that way. Dr. >> What what about the others though? I mean, the question is it's not terribly important to us to know the GMP and the material cost subtracted. I guess that's material cost to date. >> Yes, sir. That's to it's all to date. Not sure what because it Wayne asked a question. What do we tell the public about how much it costs and it's it's none of these figures. >> It's not the 56 million. >> It is now
017but it's not but we just got that today. >> We just have that different 56. >> We're also at the end of the project too. I mean again >> you know until you're complete you're just not complete. I mean there's there's costs that are associated. So I'm not I mean I'd love to take all the credit that I look that great but it's you know I'm actually complete complete. So the answer to that question [snorts] construction would be the total final contract value for the C construction manager plus the direct purchase order. >> That's correct. So that's the final issue. >> Yeah, we can go with that. >> Yeah, that that would be >> so the closest thing we have to an ending number right now is the 56 million 417. >> Mr. Chairman. Yes,
018sir. [clears throat] >> The 12 million. >> The 12 is material cost. >> Yeah, the 12 was material cost. That was the owner direct purchase. So, what the savings was on that was $724,50 >> tax in tax savings. Okay. That's what you saved. >> So, it's 56 million, >> but the materials that's the material costs are in there >> in that in that number. That's correct. And and actually just I mean so there you say do you want him to go? >> Yeah. >> If you could go up to the mic. I know people online aren't going to be able to hear. >> One of the complaints that I've received is when people are talking back here they can't hear the questions and the answers. So I would ask Mr. Chairman if we could to
019have make sure everybody comes to the mic. >> All right. I'm sorry about that. But so and again this is the 56 to date. Again with you know the adding of security cameras and other things. There's still going to be some minor cost that comes out of you know the general conditions as we saw personnel and things working out there doing some of these last few minute things. So that's not the the bottom bottom line number just so everybody knows. It's pretty darn close. It's pretty close. Yeah. You're not you're not far off. So >> So would there be a wait Mr. Chair May? So, would there be a way that we could, again, I'm thinking about how we communicate with the public, and I'm certainly not an expert in this, but could we do
020what I call a Peter Rapid English sheet on our website that says this is where we are with cost just so the general public can understand? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> I mean, I think you can share what I presented to date with it. I mean that's on our >> I know but I just like to see it in a easy to read format I guess is what I'm saying because it does take if I didn't have Dr. Hunter, I couldn't do all these food. >> Well, unfortunately, I mean, again, you're talking a $60 million project, right? And so, there's a lot of line items. There's a lot of cost. There's a lot of variables that, >> you know, >> there's one thing they can do. There's one thing you can do, and that look,
021>> been in this business a long time. Owner direct purchase is a great thing. It saves you money, right? >> It's also like voodoo accounting when you're looking at it on a sheet trying to understand in the industry. >> That's right. So, somebody should be able to I I make our staff keep spreadsheets in house that that don't deal that that put this back into the actual total cost of the project so we can just see it on a more broad scale. They could easily do that for you guys. Take take this owner direct purchase, you know, deductive change order business out and give people just a simple understanding where the project is. That can happen. It's not that difficult. Good. Thank you. >> And that and that's what I did on that revision that
022revised revision under question number one. So >> here >> just like to ask what is what is athletic equipment? >> That's your basketball goals, your paddings, um part of things in the gymnasium. Volleyball, I don't know if it has volleyball. I think all of that stuff. >> Yeah. that is that able to be spent bond money on that. >> It's it's part it's part of curricul part of the school. I mean a basketball goal is not going to last them. I mean this thing's got to be capitalized out at some point, right? I mean we're not building football fields and all that stuff because that wasn't part of the bond. I'm just curious if if basketball goals I mean at $123,000 is that an eligible expense for >> it's Yes. >> Okay. I just want
023to make sure we're all on the same page. I just didn't think that would be an eligible expense inside of a construction project would be >> otherwise you'd have an empty gym >> bills cost >> uh question I would hope not. >> So I was just curious what that was. I just wasn't sure that just kind of stuck out to me. Okay. >> Well, I have a question since he went said that. So like when you think about things like the window treatments, are those like the blinds? >> That's your blind. Yeah, your blinds. Yep. >> So the design committee wouldn't be >> Travis. No. Oh, >> we also we did add some filming on the uh windows as well, but >> so that wouldn't be considered like the furnishings. Um would do that, right?
024>> Is that right? >> It's more of a safety feature is what was just added. >> Yeah. >> Okay, I got you. >> Good question. >> I see another hand. >> I have a question. This I haven't had the chance to look through this but the total on this packet that is in answer to my question what has been paid to CRA at the end of it it says 11 a.5 million is that how much was paid to CRA >> did you say that's not an answer to your question? >> No it it's in the packet that is an answer to my question but I'm looking at the bottom line it's 11.5 million. >> So if you go to the next page page seven for our project it's actually 7.6 6 million. There's 3.8 million
025that was spent on special facility which is the high school in Crescent City. >> Oh, >> and then if you go further Oh, that's contingency. >> Okay. So, CRA got 7.6 million, >> right? >> Yeah, it should be on the next page. >> It's Yeah, that's >> And is that included in the 56 million total cost? >> No, it's not. That's an additional cost. >> So, yeah, it's part of the soft cost. [clears throat] >> Part of the soft So, what what are other soft costs? >> Well, we're supposed to be getting a summary within last year. We didn't get it. >> We're supposed to be getting a summary of total cost. We did not get it this year. >> Okay. So, 56 million is not the total cost of the school. That's >> everything
026bond cost, all that. And that's what we asked for last meeting. >> We didn't get it. What else is included in soft cost? >> Bond cost. >> Bond cost. >> What we pay CRA and what we pay for the bond. >> There there's civil engineering. There's furniture fixtures and equipment. There's some stuff like that. >> Okay. Does anybody know how much that is right now? >> Well, be giving a summary. And by the way, members of the public asked for that same summary a year ago. Um, >> is Jonathan on line or no? soft include the site too in crescent. I mean, if you want to go back, I don't know if you have it, but our September meeting has a lot of those soft costs in Jonathan's report, including the financial advisors, the attorney.
027>> It's not all added up at one point. >> It's all there. It's just a matter of getting it like ongoing cost that they pay a little bit here and there. >> See, Mr. Chairman question about I I reviewed the CRA contract. There's two contracts. There's the overall support the district contract and then there is the school in Crescent City. Is that right? >> School in Crescent City, the um Kelly Smith school that's ongoing now. >> Right. So So it's not just one school. Those costs were not just one school. What what we hope to see is the CRA costs are attributable to the PLA intermediate school. And hopefully someone can break that out. But that contract I reviewed that I forgot what the contract and the contract's about 4%. Is it correct? >> Yes.
028>> So the cost would be in the order of 4% of 660 which is about 2 and a half or so for that contract. I'm guessing that's be nice to see it. >> Okay. We can request it again. >> Five and a half%. I don't know if I don't know what I don't >> that's the architectural fee on the on the specific projects. I was thinking the design management fee was what you were talking about. >> And I looked at both of them and I just can't remember what they were but they were in the range of five. >> Yes sir. I don't know exactly standing here. So that 11 million or whatever it is is not attributable to to one school. >> So fixtures, furniture and equipment. I think did you just say that
029you guys don't handle that? The district puts that in. >> District puts that in. >> But you guys get 3% commission on the cost of that. >> Sure. Do we >> This is a paper we got a long time ago. >> Okay. >> Fees 5 and a half% fixtures, furniture and equipment 3%. >> That would be our total soft cost. >> That would be our interior designer laying everything out. >> Okay. bottom, excuse me, the bottom line is roughly, as we said three years ago, it's roughly about 10%. >> On top of 56, it's probably another six or something in that range. And president said we had to buy the land, so that I'm assuming it says 8 million. >> Eight. >> This is an old estimate, maybe. I'm not really sure. >> [clears throat]
030>> Well, I'll ask Jonathan to get us >> something better to look at. >> Yeah. >> Been deducted. >> All right. [clears throat] Any other questions on Pak Intermediate >> Middleton Bernie? >> I just got one question. So, at the end of this, we're going to get a what it actually costs to build the school, including what it costs for the bonds, what it costs for the attorneys for the bonds. >> That's been every meeting we've had. updates and updates on all of that. >> But now, don't we have to spread that bond cost over the two schools. >> They'll do that. >> Oh, absolutely. But I mean, still going to figure it still cost money, right? >> You know the cost of school, you know how big the bond just do you ratio, >>
031right? >> But I mean the attorney's fees was for >> you can do you can attribute that. >> All the money is in one account. You don't need to attribute attorney's fees to >> each of the projects. >> That's what I'm saying too. >> It's all the total numbers, >> right? It's all in one account. >> Right. >> All right. Middleton Bernie. >> Hey, Jack. Sean. >> All right. Well, again, thank you guys again. Have a great holidays. >> Is there like an open house party or something? >> I don't think we're have the money for that. [laughter] >> Dance around each other for a minute. >> Thank you for having us again. Um James Marini with Ajax. Um just uh I'm gonna he's going to put some pictures up of the latest aerials so
032you can see. Um I'm going to give a real broad overview and then I'm going to turn it over to the guys that actually stay out on the site 12 hours a day to get it done. Um so the financial health the project is uh pretty healthy. Um we're, you know, coming up in the mid70% complete with about 80% use of general conditions and requirements. Um the uh substantial completion date is still scheduled to be 220, so February 20th. And just as a reminder, substantial completion means the facility can be used for its intended purpose. Um it does not mean that that's when everybody's going to move in. Um so the uh CEO TCO date is going to be around March 2nd. Um and then move in will be you know start in in that
033month as well. So we have final completion is 413. Um just like every one of the projects there's always multiple balls in the air. um you know any additional scopes or anything like that that are discussed um will you know modify that slightly but we nobody seems to think there's going to be any of course an issue with there being a pretty easy transition into the fall semester is what we are understanding contingency um we have current contingency of $500,000 you don't have to show it but you can $500,00 000 left. Um, we have some potential, we track potential contingency changes. So that's like if something might impact contingency. We we track that. And so should those be used, those funds need to be used, we'd be at a current contingency of 239 or 229
034about 230,000 left. Um, so we still have uh contingency left to complete the project. approximately $85,000 in allowances still remain. So that is the uh kind of bottom line on the project. Um as far as the financial health, uh it is currently on budget and on schedule. Um and I'll turn it over to Justin and Bill for any Well, let me ask you, do you have any questions on that first? >> On those? >> Yeah. on anything I was saying. >> How come we're so far along on contingency? Still not we're not quite close to the finish. A lot of >> No, it's it's a great point. So there were each project's a little different, right? So there are this one we had actually were quite above and ahead on contingency early on the project.
035Um we reingjected yeah we reinjected some savings that we were able to find like with our mason for example of I was $300 plus thousand dollar. Um however there were some things mostly safety related like you know school safety related some of the things I believe changed like you know the requirements might have changed mid you know kind of changing horses in the middle of the stream if you will as far as safety requirements. So, a lot of that did hit contingency pretty hard, which is, you know, at a glance it sounds bad. Oh, you know, contingency is getting low, but it's good that you had the money in contingency to pay for these things that are required because otherwise they would have to be true change orders to the GMP, right? True change true
036change orders to the contract. So, the fact that the the contingency fund can can absorb these things that had to happen is actually a good thing. Um, so Dr. Hunter, we're glad to take a deep dive with you and show you all the contingency modifications. Um, anytime, but >> it just seems like we're quite a ways along at using up the contingency comparing the two projects. >> You're you're correct. The >> is there and and continue supposed to be things which were not in the plan, >> not planned to do, >> correct? >> But end up getting done, >> correct? and the school district has to agree to do them. I assume the process is Thomas and Tra and some meet with them and they go over and they have to reach an agreement. So
037both parties have to agree on unplanned things and we seem to have a pretty good total already. >> Correct. >> The only question is why not the details but why are we using so much of and is it something about the site that we didn't understand or something about >> a lot of it is security related. And until we unless you want to go through the details, that's going to be the only way to answer that question. >> I mean, I I know there was an issue with the canopies that we talked about last meeting, um, which was several hundred,000. >> There was an issue with the canopies. There were also issues, if you will, with um, uh, you know, the the the type of glazing, which was a security type thing. um telecom and
038fire, you know, um the uh audio enhancements was is has to do with. So there was a lot of things and and these are things that like had you elected to go with for example a general a general contractor, these would be like >> big change orders. So instead they're absorbed, they're reviewed by your construction management team to make sure they're fair and they're absorbed within the contingency. So, it's doing what it's supposed to do. Dr. Hunter is not incorrect that, you know, it's further along than that other project. It wouldn't surprise me that all three projects are at different levels of contingency. Um, it's just because each project is just so different. Um, you know, that that is my um take. Now, the balance of this contingency, I can assure you, is being managed
039very very I mean, it's all been managed well, but uh the balance of it is being managed very closely. Um, we review it at each OAC. We talk about each of these changes. We talk about where they should be funded from. So, it's not just willy-nilly. Um, just so you know what's going on. >> And, and I'll say it for the record, I'm I'm a little not frustrated, a little frustrated both projects having safety issues. Um, because that should have been caught by someone at the school district well before construction started. >> You know, that's just my opinion. >> Please, Bill, go ahead. So, so if I can speak to [snorts] that just briefly, >> get sorry, uh, Bill Elliot, uh, senior PM with Ajax. Um, not not as by way of excuse, but like
040the security stuff right now in specifically in schools is constantly changing. Like uh just just as a for instance, there was a level three security in the foyer of the school when we started. at some point during the construction process that got bumped to a level seven. You know, I'm we're I mean, we're not experts on it. We're assuming that's some requirement that the security people understand and said, "Hey, we need a level seven here." So, that's the type of changes um windows, glass, uh that sort of thing. So, I also will point out, Dr. Hunter is we're about 76% of the way through our contingency right now and that's a today number. Uh the the project percentage build at this point is about 71% and that's a month behind. So in reality we're about
041equal in contingency in what we've actually spent to build the project so far. We we just haven't built it yet. So >> yeah, the contingency what's left on one project versus another is a very difficult comparison because you know we don't know what pretend what percentage or value we started out with one project versus the other. So there's so many variables that we'd have to go through. But Bill makes a great point and I don't think that necessarily I understand the frustration but I don't know that some of that can be seen like if a statute changes or something along the way and you know you basically have to do it right you have to do this to get to the security and that would mean that you know like when CRA is designing it
042initially that requirement does not exist. So you know by nature it exists part of the way through the construction because it's a long process. So the election is to go ahead and say, "Okay, well, let's go ahead and implement the safety that's going to be required anyway." >> So, Mr. >> Grimes. >> Yes, sir. >> So, I guess I get confused because most code reditions only come out every couple of years. >> Exactly. >> So, we're sitting here mid-stream changing a code redition that I think should have get caught during design phase of these schools. Um, they should have been designed with the safety stuff, but yet the school district has to pay additional dollars for safety stuff that should have been caught early on in the design. Um, state law only gets adopted in
043July every year. So there wasn't a a new thing until July this year of a state statute coming out for safety. So I mean it takes the legislaturator's got to get through first. So I would just be curious on why we miss so much in design. >> Greg like like Greg's going to address that question. It >> it was something that wasn't in the code for safety. This was something we started the school. This is this is where safety was at that point. It it's not per the code. It it is that like we come and submit drawings to you guys to look at and review and everything. It wasn't part of that. They got a new safety officer in the district. He came in and we need to do this, this, and this now.
044>> Well, I I'll beg the difference. Safety officer has been the same for a while. So, that's where I think it was missed. >> Yeah. I have a concern when you said the safe I understood what Bill said and that answered part of my question as to why uh why you all didn't at the beginning know what the safety was what the federal and state laws were requiring safety in schools those are set as as JR Grimes said they only change when the legislature changes it July and I'm not familiar with any changes to the safety code and I'm sure there have been some but I still don't understand why all the safety measures weren't put in place in the first place and the safety officer fine the safety officer should be following the state
045statute and the federal law. That that is set in stone. That's what you should be complying with. And I don't understand why you all were given all of a sudden you you said a level three or something and all of a sudden you got to change to a level four. That is just plain stupid. It doesn't make any sense. And I don't know who's doing that to you, but I don't think it's right. And I'm just seeing red flags and bells going off all over the place. I'm a little bit familiar with safety. And if safety changes, by gosh, you need to have an etch sketch to draw it on. I mean, seriously, I'm really concerned about that. Well, we had >> No offense to you fellas, cuz you just did what you were handed.
046I went, "Okay, so today you handed one thing. Now tomorrow you're going to be told something else about safety." What's going on here? >> Yes, ma'am. Well, >> and I mean, there's a huge difference. I mean, because we didn't do the same safety things at the intermediate school we just built, and we didn't have as much change in safety there as we do there. It's the same safety officer, >> but but we still had some some issues there at the at the intermediate school as well. >> Yeah. But the net effect of contingency use was much less. Right? That's that's >> does anyone talk? Do you know the difference? >> All attributed to safety. There was some >> Can you come up to the mic? >> No. To answer the first question, there was no
047u new safety officer. We've had the same one all along. Um there were other major issues there. So, we can't say all of this contingency change has gone in the line of safety. Um there has been some things where um some additional glazing were added after the fact on some of the windows and some of the film, our safety officer and and um and he's I had we had a conversation today and we were talking about the um the Melrose Intermediate uh elementary school and we were actually talking about um security cameras and why we're adding additional security cameras Because if you look at the Palaka Intermediate School, one of the change orders that's still yet to be done is additional security cameras. So I said, "Travis, um, did you initially go through and look
048at the security cameras?" He said, "Well, the IT people did, and they they're the ones who have always done it." Um, I said, "Before we pay for these additional security cameras, I want you to walk through and, you know, pull everything up on your laptop and then just kind of physically walk through." and he said, "Boss, I'm getting used to um putting cameras on a diagram where they actually go and actually once things are installed, actually going out and seeing things already up and erect. Um, you know, and he's we had a safety auditor in the district today and we got zero audits. I mean, he he does a terrific job all the time, but this is undiscovered country for him. We can't all be experts in everything and that's why we have contingency and
049sometimes we do things and say well that's that's good but we need to bump it up a bit and some of that is just this when it with that when it comes to safety um outside of the the security film and then I remember the bullet um the rifle grade glass where the um up front where the um receptionist sits. I remember Travis adding nose on after the fact, but outside of that, there was very little. Um, and and again, we're trying to get ahead of some of the things, you know, that we've learned with lesson learns along the way, but you know, there were some other issues with the contingency of this particular school um that didn't have to do with safety. So, >> and I'll just make a comment out of just frustration,
050but um Dr. Hunter initially s suggested we have a construction manager for the district and it's been brought up at the school board. We've brought it up as a as a board but I can't the public cannot accept we're not experts in this field. That is exactly why we have this whole group of people up here is to be experts. We are not experts at building schools. I can't I can't build a leak log house. >> I I I agree. But and you know these gentlemen are experts in building a school. Um and and when we hire somebody, chances are they're probably going to have a construction background and and the board has um basically directed us to do exactly that. And I I envision someone having, you know, a college degree, a construction management
051degree like all these gentlemen have. Um but they come from various backgrounds and school construction is >> Let me ask this question. Are we are we confident that all the safety upgrades that have been added were needed? >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I think so. Were they mandated >> or were they just >> Some some some may not have been mandated, but some were um highly recommended by my safety specialist uh director um just because he does a terrific job and he's about let's keep students as safe as possible, not let's do what's it's the fact of it's coming after the fact and that's and I'll I meant to do this earlier and I'll do it real quick, But it was even mentioned at the board meeting yesterday. Um, you know, our charter is as
052this committee, one of the issues is we see everything after after the fact. It's always been our argument. Um, we're to review, monitor, and inform the public on planning progress and implementation or as it was put at the board meeting, we're information pushers. Yes. >> Um, so >> we don't have any authority, but >> we certainly >> have some questions and the more it gets in the public, the more questions we have, the more we get asked. So that's where this is all coming from because it's all stuff we're hearing. >> Yes, ma'am. >> For the record, I had no problem with the contractors or any of the workers. What I see is a problem is the mixed information you're getting. You get told one thing today, you get something told something else tomorrow. That's
053what's causing the issue with contingency and everything else the way I see it. And I don't think that's particular. Is it illegal? Absolutely not. That's not what I'm saying. But it's not really good business, I don't think. And I'm not a business person. >> So would it be um possible or I don't know. Y'all tell me. Um for someone independent to look at it from a safety perspective. The only reason why I asked that is because yesterday at the schoolboard meeting, I think it was Miss Wagner that mentioned that in like she originally suggested or had someone like an independent contractor that she said was willing to like review this pro bono like not at not at any cost to anybody at the school district to kind of review going through the process from a
054safety perspective and looking at other things that contractors are familiar with not me or us. Um would that be a possibility? Would that be something that >> I know that at the schoolboard meeting yesterday it was brought up again. Um I believe it was tabled till next meeting to have that discussion of having >> I believe I believe we'll be bringing back a job description and um and you know actually rolling that out for the board approve to approve to actually >> hire someone and and um go ahead. Sorry. I will make one comment about that. Um, and I can send Mr. Liry an email. It was in that job description. It was said that it would work on only that they were going to pay for it from bond funds and that person would
055oversee schools funded by the bonds. I'm find it hard to believe that that person's going to be able to do that without being mixed in with the high school and [snorts] other things on their just daily job routines if they come in. Um, so I'm going to strongly recommend that that is a school district expense and not come from the bonds. But I'll put that in writing. >> Yes, sir. >> Lest we try to draw conclusions without facts. If I recall, the contingency for Crescent City, you have to correct me, was smaller than the contingency in terms of percentage. >> I I do not know. We had a slim we had a So contingency is very often between 3% and 5%. >> Yeah, >> we had a 3% contingency. >> Did you get from Yeah.
056So contingency is very often between 3% and 5%. Okay. So our you know RGMP we were working very hard to make sure that it was within budget as much as possible. If you recall we put a uh negative allowance for ODP and we uh carried the lower end of 3% on contingency. I do not know what the other projects carried for contingency as far as percentage. >> I did a comparison. I did a spreadsheet which I gave the committee which compared the contingencies of the two projects from the GMPS. We have that in the record and I'm but I don't have it but as I remember you had a smaller percentage than >> Horseman's club wrote it did also and the Horseman's Club wrote the contingency grew because there was a lot of stuff in
057the subcontracts odds and ends allowances for this allowance for that which didn't get spent and they moved it up into contingency. So we got to be sure we don't compare too much about yes they did finish a lot under contingency but we need to examine >> they started with a bigger number. >> The real issue is in my opinion not about construction management person the real issue is there's not a good communication between parties about getting things straight and the the important thing is somebody's looking at contingency. This is an excellent summary that we have and somebody some somebody on the scooter should be looking at and asking these questions. Same with general conditions and all that. That's what the audit said. These things don't appear to be being reviewed >> there. >> We'll get
058to that later. But >> Dr. Hunter, um that's pretty common practice and we have not yet done our analysis to for allowances that may have been in subcontractors. We have a log of that. I mean, we don't you have not shown that yet. I don't know. You know, different CMS may show it at different times, but there may be some additional dollars that go into that. you know, like uh Todd was saying, these projects being so large as far as dollar values, there's always a lot of balls in the air until kind of the end. I mean, you can get close, right? Um but we are likely to have those kinds of things. These are our best guesses right now. Um but you're absolutely right. If if it starts at four or 5% on a
059different project that's nearly the same price and ours is at 3% and our contingency is lower, that makes absolutely perfect mathematical sense. >> We got to check that out. But my point is somebody should be checking. I personally have no concern about the safety issues. I think they've been addressed. The issue you can have you have contingent fixed price contracts as well. >> Correct. >> The problem is you have two parties [snorts] and who has incentive to keep the contingency down. The school district gets a better school and things they want and the construction manager gets more fee. So how do you end up controlling it? It's it's a problem with every project I've ever been associated with. >> That's correct. If your contingency is higher on the front end, your fee is based on
060that. So you get more fee. If it's lower, you get less fee. So you'd have to calculate that in as well as far as what you're saving. It gets complicated. But uh the other thing just I want to would rem be remiss if I did not when I was explaining safety issues. I did not mean that that was like the main issue with contingency. I was just giving an example of a few larger ticket there. There's there's tons of things. We're glad to do a deep dive on each and every one of our contingency requests if that's needed. We're glad to. >> Thank you. [snorts] >> Um, did you guys see the pictures of where we are? You want Bill to give you a quick update on construction progress? Okay. >> By the way, thank
061you for these summaries. >> What we need to look at. >> Yeah. Where am I at, Justin? Just a little picture down there. >> These guys have been doing a very, very good job. they live, sleep, eat, breathe this project. >> By the way, everyone, this is Justin Walters. He's a assistant PM out there. He's the guy that makes all the awesome videos that we've shown. Unfortunately, the last few months, we've been too busy [laughter] to to to get out and make the videos, but uh he's he's a great asset to us out there. Um, okay. So, uh this is a aerial photo of where we're at currently in the construction. and it's actually only about a week old. So, it's hard to tell from this, but uh the roof is about 80% complete and
062on. We're about ready to start doing um gutters and downspouts to complete that. Um if you're ever out by there, we've cleaned the brick mostly and the windows had gotten delayed, but they've arrived now and are getting installed, so it's really starting to look finished from the outside. Um, on this front piece right across here, which we call phase one, we are inside. Uh, the ceilings have all been put in with the tiles dropped and we're doing flooring in there and finishing up those areas. So, we're just about complete up front there. Uh, and then the the the uh two classroom wings back here. They're in various states, but we're just starting to run through this phase two piece with uh to get some flooring in tiles on the walls. Uh the grid for the
063ceiling is in and so on and so forth. Um the gym is starting to shape up on the inside there. We have our duct uh spiral duct up in there. Uh and it's it it's looking good. Um as far as this Sorry. Yes. >> Will there be a covered walkway to the gym? >> Um yes. So there's a covered walkway there. This is the play area right in here. There's a covered walkway that runs across there and then also actually runs all the way to the front of it. There's also walkways that will run along a sidewalk uh right here which is the parent uh I'm sorry the faculty parking lot and then over at the bus loop for this length there is a a canopy there also. Um site work-wise everything is done underground
064on site. They're putting in the sanitary offsite right now to hook that up. Um I I think the only thing we're short is a gas line going to the building. Um the meter has been set and permanent power will be coming on uh by the end of this week. Um yep. Oh, there's a water storage tank that's under construction. It's actually never falls in the picture. It's off to the upper portion here. Um, but we're doing foundations there and we'll be installing that over the next month or so. >> And that's going that's going well. >> I'm sorry. >> Any issues with that >> daily, but these guys [laughter] they make it go away. >> Yeah, we uh we are we've been fighting our way through that portion of the project. So, but we'll get
065there. [laughter] >> It's very obvious when you go by. So, I we can see you're having maybe some issues. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yes. >> I got to say though, it's you go on site and look around, it's orderly and things are have an intent to what's happening. So, it's I think I think we we should be thankful that we where we are. >> Thank you. >> Any more questions about uh PK through6 Crescent City? >> Okay. Just before I go, I would be remiss if I didn't say, you know, um, and not kissing up, but Thomas and Travis, I'm serious. Thomas and Travis, um, I've worked with a lot of clients throughout the state and districts and universities, and Travis and Thomas remain engaged in these projects more so than a lot of my clients
066do. Just just so you guys know, they're very on top of things. They're very busy, but they're, you know, seem almost personally invested in making sure that it comes out good and things are spent properly and we're being good stewards. So, just so you know, um, we're deal, we work with them every day. So, >> thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> Mel Rose. I I'll let David with Casper, he'll he'll give you a brief update. And we've got the CM here for for Mailroads. >> Yeah. Again, David Casper Architects, quick update. Um we're working on our last night, I think we just got approved our ERP package number one with Parish McCall. Um, so we'll beginning um as soon as next month starting the renovation of building six over on the uh north uh east
067side of the property and prepping students to move over there after the holidays so that uh uh building one can start to be demolished. So that's where we're at. We're still in design phase as well. We're targeting I think we're a little ahead of what's shown here. We're going to target towards the end of January to have um all the building plans uh complete. And so we're on track for that. And um yeah, a lot going on out there. A lot of um locating utilities and discovering things along the campus, but uh things are moving well and I think we got the right team for it. >> I will make one comment for the public is keep as many trees as you can. I know you I know you heard that yesterday, but I'm just
068going to go on record and say it. >> Yeah. And >> I have a question on the date on Melrose. It says 28 August 25 6 November 25 26 February 25. >> Uh is that not the wrong year? Should should it be 26? >> Yes. Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Just want to make sure I have to travel back in time. [laughter] >> You're in a loop. >> What? I just saw a loop so I was confused. >> I have a question. Um, not that question, but when is two questions. One, when is the GMT going to be >> for the entire project? >> Yes, >> we get documents from the design team at the end of January. It takes us about 6 to 8 weeks to competitively bid out the project.
069So, >> March one. >> Yes, sir. Right. Roughly >> around March one. Okay. And secondly, I [clears throat] was surprised at the demolition costs. It cost $300 and some thousand dollars to do the demolition at Ellen Miller on Horseman Club Road. Why are we estimating it cost a million dollars to do the demolition here? >> Yeah, it's not just the demolition. So, the total ERP GMT was one. >> I'm sorry. >> Yeah, that was not just the um demolition of of building one. It's the demolition of the entire of all the buildings on campus. But in this GMP, it also includes um quite a bit of allowance to try to bridge the gap, give the design team um some opportunity to finish their work to get us started out there on building six. We've also
070got some costs in there for utility relocations, some things that we're still investigating with Clay Electric and on site. >> That's where we got in trouble at Cors Plug Road. Yes, sir. >> Finished the demolition and shut had to shut down the project. Cost would have kept going had we not done that because there's a real temptation when you have a construction demolition that cost $250,000 and a estimate that's a million dollar and estimate to spend that other $700,000 for stuff. So, it's a word of caution. Um I'm not sure yet that everybody understands these are cost contracts. If you don't have the cost, you can't build it. You you're not entitled to that extra money that's in the in you do a separate GMP for example. >> But the point is [clears throat] if
071if it if demolition is really only a quarter of a million, try to have a quarter of a million dollar plus a little bit GMP. >> Yes, sir. >> Unless there's some other stuff, [clears throat] but make that explicit in the GMP. Were those details in the um package that the school board approved yesterday? >> So if we wanted to see Yes. >> the details so that it is on the website if you want to go through their documents of what makes up the >> what the estimate is. >> Right. >> I think Thomas said you're going to do separate GMP for the uh demolition. Is that correct? >> We so th this is part of the Yes. This this ERP does include the asbestous abatement and the demolition of all the buildings on campus.
072Um we we would prefer not to have ERPs because I mean it it it does muddy some things up, but we're we're also up against time trying to give the design team their time to finish it up. So, you know, we're at 250,000 I want to say for all the demolition of all the buildings. We've got another 150,000 of asbestous abatement through those existing buildings before we can demo. We've also got monitoring in there, some allowances for lead paint and survey. >> As long as it's stated up front and is there and is a real cost, it's not an issue. >> Yes, sir. >> It's when there's a big gap in there, >> no stated work. I would encourage you and everybody else to look at the board documents from yesterday because it has all
073the details of how they get to 1,19,535 >> for for for the EMP. >> Yes. For what was approved yesterday and what's on this piece of paper? >> Yeah. >> Early release package. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I'm getting my acronyms back. >> We have provided a dictionary for a >> total of a million dollars. >> Could we print out of the ERP? >> It's on the school board's agenda from yesterday. It's all available. It's on public at the next meeting. >> I probably want it tomorrow. I wouldn't wait for the next meeting. It's already been approved. >> But I was trying to be conservative. >> It's already been approved. So, >> um I would look at it tonight if you have a question on it because it's >> if we can access the school board's
074I looked at it yesterday. It's all available. >> Well, if your computer works. Yeah. >> The issue is that the issue is that the school board pay attention to what the actual work is and what the costs are and the billing comes in for the cost. [snorts] That is >> doesn't matter if it's too. That's a huge question. >> Someone watches it. >> In the case of Eller Miller, it wasn't being watched. >> That is the number one issue I have with this entire process is we see everything afterwards. >> The only way we could look at it ahead of time is if you looked at the board documents, they've already approved it. There's not a whole lot we can do. >> So, we're information pushers, >> but that's I'll get off that soap box,
075but that's all that means. Any other questions on the Melrose update? That was more exciting than I expected. Um, [laughter] want to jump to Kelly Smith. Fun you can have. Your demolition's higher, just to let you know. >> I saw that. [laughter] >> So, why is I'm back. >> All right. Keith >> and this one was approved. The ERP was approved for this. >> The early release package was approved yesterday on this one, too. >> Yes, we um finished up the early release documents a month to six weeks ago. They have bid it. The GMP was presented and approved yesterday. Um the rest of the documents we finished the first week or so of October, so it is on the street right now being bid. So, um that will be coming up. I'll let them
076speak uh speak to exactly when we're we're pulling the numbers together for that >> back again. So, um the yeah, like like Greg was saying, the earlier release package GMP um was approved last night. Um uh Mr. Sheepard may be in the same boat as me. You know, the the ERPs can be a little bit more difficult to manage. I myself have not been able to do a project without one in years now because just time constraints typically stop it. So ours include um uh site work uh early site work clearing grubbing that pro this project lends itself to an early release because there's a lot of uh clearing rubbing to do and a lot of kind of mass grading to do. So that work can be done while the design is concurrently being completed
077which saves you time. So when we look at this project, we look at a project that's very very similar to Crescent City's uh CK uh PK through 6, but it's just a little bit different layout, similar project building um with the additional element of of demolition of an entire school bases abatement, you know, and all that stuff. So the schedule is tight. So any kind of uh time that we can save by doing this kind of thing, concurrent design and construction, we want to take advantage of so that the district can get into the uh school in the summer of two in the summer like like like planned. So that's the deal. So the site work um demolition, some asbestous abatement, there's residential structures that have to come down. We've also included dollars in there
078for expedited procurement of reinforcing steel um structural steel like H trusses and electrical gear. um to uh help facilitate that speed that I was talking about. Um and then general conditions and requirements based specifically on that uh uh you know that work. Um so that is that's that's how that works. We will uh begin contracting once we do the once you know it's already approved so we'll begin contracting. We'll mobilize at the end of December. Um and then we are working to have a GMP um within [snorts] the next several weeks um uh that we can turn over um to Thomas and his team and go over it. So we should be able to have the 100% bought out by the or excuse me approved by the end of the in January of 2026. So
079that's the plan um with completion in the summer of 2027. [snorts] Yeah. So, that's the overall 30,000 foot view. >> Can you mention tearing down a residential structure from that new property? >> Yes, sir. >> I just want to go on record again that I think the school district well overpaid for that property because we bought a $180,000 house that we knew was going to be torn down. >> I have a question. >> Not on you. >> So, if I can recall like one of the issues that caused the delay, I think with the intermediate school, it was something with the wetlands or something. Have we since I know the school is not I what I know the school is not going to be right in the same exact spot where it is now. So
080have we assessed all that and is that a possibility you know because we want to learn from our previous lessons. >> I don't want to speak for Greg but that effort between our two firms has been very very strong and Thomas and Travis. So, we meet bi-weekly to discuss all these things and lessons learned are always a very important thing to us, whether it be permitting or, you know, uh, you know, zoning, whatever. We're going to talk about every one of those things. And, um, Greg can tell you the status of each one of those, but I can assure you they're being looked at and worked on. And the main thing is is that we don't get held up by mobilization. And we're on track for that at this point. So if Greg wants to
081add anything, but yes, they are all being addressed, looked at, made sure that that things are being accounted for in the GMPS, accounted for in the planning and sequencing. Yes, ma'am. And it's a good great point. >> Thank you. >> Let me add real quick that yes, uh there are a couple of gopher tortoises on site that's been that's been started and as wet as it is, there there are a couple of gopher tortoises. That process is underway right now. Uh St. John's River Water Management District, that permit's well on its way right now. So, we're doing everything to stay ahead of them on this one. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Good question. >> I have a question. Thanks, Andy. >> All right. I'm I'm looking at I'm comparing Crescent City to Kelly Smith, and
082they're similar in size in in stations, you know, kids stations, but it's about $2 million more than Crescent City. It looks like the main difference is the demolition. And you're on a very tight site, is it? >> But you >> Yeah. So several several things and right now, don't forget, we're only, you know, at an estimate, right? So we won't know the true until we bid out this 100%. But it's a great point. So if there was a question in there, I think it would be why would we anticipate this project being more? One of the answers is absolutely. The the demolition of the entire school, the the you know, asbestous abatement, the sequencing and phasing, the smaller site, you know, those kinds of things um could lend themselves to it being a more expensive
083school. Now, you know, without giving it kind of false hope, the good the good that you have is, you know, the market is a little better. Um the escalation, of course, the the the cost has still escalated, right, because it's been time, but the subs are a little hungrier. So, that may help us. the location of this school versus Crescent City may help us. Again, these are soft X factor things that we can't promise, but those are the those are the bigger costs that we would see for this one. >> And you have inflation. >> Yes. Exactly. Right. >> That's a year. >> Exactly. >> That's a year difference. >> Exactly. So, >> on your lessons learned, we just talked about Crescent City. >> Yes, sir. >> And all those contingencies. Are you going to
084build in those lessons learned to this one? >> Yes, sir. We we've we've already done that quite a bit in that in that estimate that I believe um uh Mr. New Bald is looking at um you know for example you know whether it be audio enhancement or any of these things that were kind of like okay well you know we know we have to have that both the design team has incorporated those things early on and we have incorporated those things into our GMPs and we'll continue in estimates so that everybody knows okay this is how much it's going to cost you know and and so we're not quote unquote surprised I mean again the contingency is being used for what it's supposed to be used for but if we can you get out in
085front of those. You know, it would be less maybe shocking to some folks as we go along. >> So, so apples to apples, if you're building those things in now, the GMP would be a little bit higher, but you would probably use less contingency throughout the project. >> Correct. >> Uh the dates are wrong on the proposed for Kelly Smith Primary School. It says October of 2025, September 2025, etc. July and October. Uh, and then I didn't notice it on black intermediate intermediate school, but the dates are wrong. Those the years wrong. So, >> we're so fast that we are going to go 88 miles an hour and get No, I'm kidding. No, I don't >> typo. Yeah. No, good call. >> Thank you. >> So, yeah, >> question. I'll come back to you. >>
086So, Mr. Newol hit on the first question I had because I asked the question when we started Crescent City of why the escalation of the Crescent City school was so high. We're told that the subcontractors didn't want to go down there and work in fencing. And then this school is $2 million more than the Crescent City school and it's not as far away. So the contractor should bid. So the question still remains, you know, why is this one so much higher? Because that's what we were told in Crescent City. The cost was elevated because of location. This should be very similar in line with the same money as we spent at the Palaka Intermediate Stool. Um but it continuing [clears throat] to grow higher and higher in a better condition, better market. Um that's why
087long time thinks been competitively bid and got a little bit off the street because we would actually realize those costs. >> Yeah. Mr. Gre I'll point out is these numbers are three years old >> I believe >> these estimates. >> Yes. >> So >> these estimates on this >> on the sheet you're looking at >> the Kelly Smith is three years old. >> That makes it worse. >> Mr. Grimes, it's a it's a great point and ultimately just so you know the the way this process and I'm sure you have you know but I mean ultimately you know when we're going along these design phases and we're doing estimates that's our our best guess our historical data we do a good job of that but once we buy it we are getting you know minimum
088three we're make every possible human attempt to get minimum three bids to make sure that we get that best value price for the subs and of course everybody that's all transparent everybody sees it so at the end of the day what we can buy it for is what we'll get it for. You know what I mean? So, so all those things will kind of come out in the wash with that 100% GMP. Um, and and you know, everybody will get a chance to look at it. So, I think Thomas did a good job explaining to us why the early permits are necessary because we got to get ahead on the schedule. >> These really aren't demolitions. They're really demolitions and other stuff, >> right? >> And and the question, the other stuff is probably more
089than the demolition. Yes, sir. >> But it's needed other stuff, right? >> It's something they can estimate. But getting back, my point was if you itemize the other stuff, which I hope they've done, and then see that it was done. >> Sooner you buy it, the cheaper it is, too. >> What? >> Sooner you buy it, the cheaper it is. >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, yes. There all kind of reason to do it. >> So, kind of along the lines of what Dr. Hunter just said. So, I know at Kelly Smith, we're keeping a building because it's not old enough. is too >> building 12 >> too new to be demolished. >> So would that add to the cost? Because I remember when we were talking about it in the early stages um to like
090renovate was more expensive almost than to or cost. >> It depends. It depends. That's a tough one, but it's a great point and I forgot to mention it. That's another reason for a little bit more cost. Yeah. So there is a building 12. How many square feet do we know roughly how many square feet is? It's a fairly decent sized building and so that has to be renovated which is another scope item that would not have been included obviously across the city. >> That's also the hurricane correct. >> That's correct. >> And don't you have to be careful when you demolish and you're keeping a building. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Throw some cost in there too, right? Because the way you >> Yes, sir. We don't have to worry as much about trees like Bill
091does, but we [laughter] >> that you know of actually J.R. asked my question. >> Okay. I did have one more because you did mention that they teared down a residential house. The zoning is done for this this one. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that Okay. >> Everybody and their cousin has double checked that I believe. So, >> just want to make sure. >> Any other questions on Kelly Smith? >> Just on the question that asked the tr trouble we got into Arthur Road is when the question was asked, do you have the permits? We were told yes. The answer was no. And so, so now the question is Greg said they're on track. Will they get done and who's making sure they get done? >> Yes, sir. They are
092applied there. We have submitted applications for all of those and so we're tracking it. They're with us tracking it. Uh different civil engineer is doing this work. So, I've got a lot of confidence in him. >> Yes, sir. >> You said is that 180 for that house? Is that part of this cost too or is that >> we've already spent it? >> That's what I mean. But it's built into this also, right? >> No, it's not in this. >> They they did they bought that separate from the bond. >> No, it's from it's from the cost summaries. >> So that doesn't show up. We will be getting one on horseman's foot, >> right? It it'll show on Jonath report. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions on Kelly Smith? >> All right. Did Jonathan join? >>
093I text him. >> It's okay. >> Thank you as always, >> Jonathan. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Jonathan is out of town. And the the biggest thing that I wanted from Jonathan that he doesn't have yet is that arbitrage report. I remember from last meeting um has to do with how much interest we've earned versus how much we're paying. Um I've checked with him several times. It's just it's not complete yet. It's not him doing it. Um so we'll skip that part at the moment. Mr. Chair, would you explain that risk again? We making too much money. >> Correct. We're earning more than we're supposed to. >> Um, we stop. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, yeah. We're going to let the crowd uh disperse a little bit. >> That's a good trick. >> All
094right. So, a couple of members uh wanted to go over the audit. findings. Um, I will let whoever has questions start with your questions. >> So, uh, well, Mr. Chairman, let me ask you this. You, u, I did not listen to the school board meeting last night. Is there a summary on the audit findings as it compares to the bonds compared to our function that was brought up last night? >> Nothing related to us that I remember. Um, I can tell you that my opinion is everything that's in the audit is related to processes at the school district level. I have talked to Mr. Woods and um haven't talked to Thomas, but I'm sure he has. Um, that they're very comfortable that they've addressed it and if we'd like for them to address it. >>
095Okay. >> Be glad to do it. >> Have them do it. See if we had any specific questions for them. So, the only question I had because I got confused when I was reading through the paper and then looking at this stuff and so [clears throat] I know that they were talking about like invoices and all this other stuff and if you paid an invoice after if you paid it late then you got some kind of charge. Correct. >> Would that be applicable to us or was that just for what they were talking about with the PE cards and all that? No pec cards, but and I'll let I know some of the invoices weren't paid in that time because they didn't get the invoices from people that needed to be paid. >> So, it's
096kind of hard to control. >> Would that affect us? So, no, >> that wouldn't affect us. >> And that's the >> So, we're changing our processes internally. So, um when we do get the receipt um orders, then we get the invoices at the same time so we can go ahead and pay them. So, >> and as it as it relates to us, we >> we're still here to make sure the money's spent on schools, not in anything else. >> The day-to-day operation >> is not what we're doing. And um >> not our >> There was something Travis, I wanted you to address and it Oh, the bid openings that just, you know, it it looks like y'all weren't attending bid openings, but we know that's not true. Yeah, we had six different bid openings and
097I attended all six, >> right? >> Um but we did not have it documented, >> right? >> Um and when the question was asked, he didn't say anything about documentation. Um but we going we had that documented, but going forward the the two that y'all just went over the ERPs that was documented and filed. So the next audit, I mean, we should be good, >> right? >> Dr. Hunter, >> I had a different set of conclusions from looking at the audit. sent that to that was great. There were three items which which are directly in our burden and um I think first of all the audit's not evidence that anything was misspent or misused >> right >> there's the audit doesn't affect them it has a number of claims but it basically had the three
098things which we we've always asked paying attention to contingency general condition and payment to the subcontract we're starting to get terms around that, but it it the audit implied they weren't being paid attention to now. Uh and we've been pointing that out. So my view is it's correctly in the line with what we've been saying for about the last year and it it says pay attention to this and and Travis may be right and have a record of her. There's also possibly a talked to somebody that wasn't involved and it did actually happen. But everybody, but there's some findings in there, for example, like no uh no bids were required. But if you look at it's a very small number. It's like $78,000 or something out of 60 million. The point is there are going
099to be a few little bids that get that get placed to do somebody. I'm I'm guessing the PC city or something like that. Point is to me that wasn't a big issue yet. that auditors made kind of a dealer out of it. >> I I I'll just argue like individual bids that is not in our purview. That is the school district and how they spend money and their process. I work 50 60 hours a week. I'm not going to come down here and watch bid openings and talk about >> contract. I wouldn't imply that. But we did ask about a year and a half ago to be sure that there are multiple bids on every subcontract. That is our be sure. That's a school board policy. That's not our purview. That's setting policy. The schoolboard
100policy policy. >> Yes, it absolutely is policy. >> Research, just like J.R. says, you need to take advantage of competition. The only way we save cost is have contracts bid. >> I don't disagree, but that is a schoolboard policy they have to follow. Just like the county has to follow their certain bid processes. They if we want to suggest they change it, we can. But we cannot dictate policy to the board or anyone related to the board at our position. I shouldn't I wasn't implying that in the cases where they didn't have vulnerable fields to me it wasn't a big deal but the point is management managing contingency managing general conditions are things that need to be paid attention to these are not you don't pay the GMP again repeating the sentence you don't you're
101not liable to pay the GMP you're liable to pay the costs that are legitimate and verified costs and general conditions have a chance to get >> that's totally different from bids >> and and and I agree with both of you and they do need to be monitored and and uh and I'm going to you know my uh facilities director does not like to speak in public that often but I'm going to make him here in just a second just because I know all of these things that are being done. For example, yesterday we met um with both contractors for the two new schools yesterday to negotiate general conditions. We brought down the uh percentage overall percentage fee in one and then we talked about the number of staff members on site for the other. Um
102the first go around, you know, we didn't document that we did that. So yesterday we have it calendared, we took notes, we have a a paper trail to show the auditors, yeah, we did it because they want to see or they want to see the proof. They they could care less what you say. um you know and and whether if you tell them you did it well good for you but I need to see the actual proof and then the general conditions along the way every time you guys get an invoice you're checking and double checking right >> and I'll let you uh speak to that as well but >> no when a payout comes in is cross is cross referenced by Mandy Alman my admin assistant uh and if those gentlemen wouldn't have left
103they could tell you stories on stuff she's caught and she just pushes it right back to them and said try in uh but we just did not have it documented. >> And I'll be honest with you with the amount of construction we have done and just to get hit with those three things for documentation. I I'm actually proud of what we've done. >> Could you while you're up there, could you mention what you told me about the Melrose um I remember what part it was something y'all just went through recently on and it's going to bring the cost of the remodel. just you being there helped bring the cost down. the the scope started out the the schematic price was like 5.5 million and that kind of like everybody got sticker shock and so we
104went through buildings 14 15 and 16 and went with architect and their engineers and like HVAC we replaced them about five years ago but they had that in the schematic and five five six year old HVAC I'm good with because their classroom rim units 10 years down the line it's not going to break my budget to replace those. So we saved a ton of money there. Um started going through the windows that was on the the scope. The windows got to looking there's nothing wrong with the windows. Uh I put a floor in all three buildings within the last three years. So we whittleled that scope down to I if you looked at the website it might be$2 million. So, we we shaved off $3 million on on the renovations of those buildings. >> Wow.
105And there's one more thing I was gonna ask you and I forgot what it was. >> Who wants to go first? I follow. >> So, help me to understand because I'm trying to understand. Um, like what oversight we have versus the oversight that they have because I know you said we don't get into the daytoday stuff, but we do get into how the bond money is being spent. And so like um and this is from the paper so this might not be not anything against the paper 100% true but it said [laughter] >> I'm just trying to be politically correct. Okay. So it says auditors said staff verified invoice math but didn't document checks to ensure payments match contract terms or subcontractor agreements relying instead on contractors for oversight. So is that what y'all are
106saying y'all did but you just didn't document it? Yep. And we have a we have a plan in place now with a spreadsheet just I mean [gasps] me and Thomas kind of racked our brain on how do we document that. Um but we have a plan and it's it's documented. It started I don't know two weeks ago when we went over it. So it's like I said all three findings were documentation. >> So would that have been something that we should have >> found and addressed or that because that's the day-to-day stuff and that's okay. Gotcha. And one thing I'll mention, we and we said this or it might have been Dr. somebody said it very early on that everything related to this was going to get audited >> and it was going and there's
107many many >> people looking at it every day and >> audits that's part of the job. I mean it's got to happen >> public money. >> Two questions rel one question about audits. Um, is a general conditions invoice labeled general conditions? >> I would have to check on that. I do not know on the financing. >> When I was looking at the invoices, the invoices weren't labeled against the GMP categories. Yes. >> Couldn't tell contingency from general conditions from brick work. >> Yes. and and and and the second point is when we asked to get a summary this committee asked to get a summary of the costs according to the categories contingencies that we were I forgot what we were told but we we said we could we it just kind of disappeared evaporated we
108asked for such a summary which would have made this audit finding go away but it never was done that mean there's not a summary at any one time of the costs according to the GMP categories at any one time. Could you just look and say we spent $24 million on general conditions or what? >> That to my know that's what I thought Greg could produce for us and just haven't we haven't seen it. >> They didn't. But the contractor knows them instantly, >> right? >> They produce these in an hour >> and that's I've heard them several times say, "Oh, we have that." But we haven't seen it. Me and Thomas look at that in the OAC meetings bi-weekly and they have the general condition log the the condition contingency log >> summary of each
109of the >> summary that you saw that you >> Yeah gave Ajax a compliment. We look at that every other Thursday. >> Yep. But but we we we we're trying to stay out of the details if we can but we just asked for a summary of the cost for each of the categories in the GMP and it never happened. Had we seen that, this audit kind of would have probably gone away. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I was one of the ones that asked for us to have this meeting to look at this audit. When I like Evette, Miss Jones, when I read the paper, I didn't see a whole bunch of stuff that I wanted to see, but I did see honestly uh and yes, I still subscribe to it, but um they they talked
110about construction costs. We are monitoring construction costs and rehab costs that are going on right now. That's our job to make sure that the bond money is being used the way it's supposed to be used. So when I saw that then I felt we needed to know something about what did the audit say about how the money is being used. And on page seven on findings I think one of the other folks mentioned this. It says however there is was no evidence that the district personnel compared the pay requests and related payments to the GMP contract or subcontra contractor invoices or that the payments for subcontractor services were compared to sub subcontractor contract. And then it goes down say, "However, the district reliance on CME procedures provide little assurance that the pay requests and related
111district payments were proper." And then that was on page uh eight and it's under finding seven and finding eight. It says it it says it talks about new construction and uh the bond and it says as discussed in finding eight the board contracted with three CMEs for GMP contracts for construction projects totaling $23.9 million at three schools and we are monitoring that $23 million 9 million for the three schools because we're monitoring the money that these schools cost. So, I think that this this it's a very appropriate meeting that we've had to talk about this and get some clarity on this audit and I understand what um Travis said and that explains part of what was said on finding on finding number seven, but I was very uncomfortable when I saw in the paper that
112there was an audit and I didn't see anything. It talked about new construction, wait a minute, we're monitoring to make sure the money's going right. So, we have to find out what did the audit say? Is everything okay? It looks like it probably is just some minor stuff. I feel better about it. >> Does the auditors know we are here? >> Oh yeah. >> Did they just be >> We're not doing audits. >> No, I know we're not doing audits. >> Somebody's monitoring that bond money. Did they >> I can't answer that. I mean, I'm assuming that somebody at some point in time probably said we have a bond oversight committee. >> Yeah, I hope so. I'm sure they do. But >> yeah, I do have a question. >> Oh, yes, sir. >> So, I've
113got a question that I'm not getting into procedures. school system, but it kind of it does relate uh to this committee. So, back I think in our first meeting, we talked about what do you do when you can't get but a subcontractor to bid on something and that was discussed here in in detail as it relates to the schoolboard policy that would relate to here. What is your policy when you can't find qualified subs? >> You readvertise it. We we had we had the same problem with actually both Crescent City schools. The high school I know is not uh in y'all's realm, but the elementary school obviously is and they had a heck of a time finding site work contractors down there. Um actually >> plumbing wasn't >> plumbing was plumbing was one too. um
114but site work and they just kept readvertising, readvertising and you might have this site contractor he might put in for it and then they go over it with him and he's [snorts and clears throat] not qualified to do it or he he don't he's not bonded. So it just they keep because I mean >> they're not going to get stuck with it. They're going to be safe. >> Doesn't it come to a point and I think this is the way it is in the county and J.R. can correct me. Doesn't it come to the point that you have to take it to some authority to say, "Hey, I can only find one bid. This is it." And you didn't seek permission to accept that bid. >> It's just we we have we have the same
115we have to document. We've we've did our due diligence trying to, you know, get three, four, five biders and it just and as long as you document it, no different when we got hit with this audit. We just did not have our documentation. >> My point, Mr. chairman and asking that question. I'm assuming that's going to fall back into the kind of procedures that our companies will follow here or have followed. >> Right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. I I don't think we had a problem with kids either two projects except for that minor amount which they shall which I consider. It looked to me like we got competitive all the way through, >> but I still am a little uncertain about >> the correlation of invoices with categories, >> you
116know, invoices. When an invoice came, my experience in looking at the invoices was they just came in unlabeled and and they got paid just like you're paying for the bus cast, they just got paid. Question is, are they now labeled? So they're associated if they're contingency for example do they say contingency on the invoice so you can keep track of how much contingency has been spent. I know the conting I know the contingency gets board approved that gets that goes to the board and if there's anything that decreases the contingency it gets board approved >> let's just say it's mill work or concrete work does the invoice say concrete work in it the GMP has like 12 or 13 categories each category my question is are do you associate does a given invoice associate with
117a given category when they come through the news because that's what Algra read there no one is making the correlation. >> Well, I would I would expect Is that a Jonathan question? >> It wasn't true before. >> It's a fun I mean, >> yeah, >> it could be. >> I I best guess would be my best guess would be no. It doesn't say general conditions. It just says whatever that thing is, whether it's an electric bill or whatever. >> Yeah. >> And and I mean, we know what it is and she knows to make sure u Mandy knows to make sure that it's something that's in the GMD um before she ever went through payments. You're you're right, Thomas. I like what you guys are, but we asked for a summary and couldn't get it.
118When when the contractor was asked, they produced it in a matter of two or three hours. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Anything else on audit? Yes, ma'am. >> No, just what Dr. Hunter said. I was looking at the recommendation on page nine. I'd like to read it into the record. The district should establish procedures to require district personnel to attend and document attendance at subcontrac contractor bid openings, confirm applicable subcontractor licenses, and compare subcontractor bid awards to the GMP and subcontractor contracts to verify that the CME uses a competitive selection process to select qualified subcontractors and that the GMP contract and subcontractor contract and bid award amounts agree. Uh the final one recommend recommendations on page 10 under finding number nine general conditions costs and the recommendation from the auditor. The district
119should establish effective procedures for negotiating, monitoring and documenting the reasonleness of general condition costs. Such procedure should require documentation of the methodology used and factors considered in negotiating general condition costs. In addition, the district should maintain records that evidence general condition cost monitoring, including review of sufficiently detailed documentation supporting general condition costs in the CME pay records. And I just would like that on the record for our meetings. I just I think the school board just the school district just needs to tighten up some of their it looks like it's tightened up some of their procedures >> on on finding nine. Um, I think that's where having someone who knows how to who has experience in instruction management that works for the district would know if these costs were reasonable. Um, I had this old
120GMP when it was going to be a a preK through six school and I talked about it with a couple of people who have experience doing that and they were surprised at some of the costs. Um, >> do they have experience building schools? >> Not specifically schools. >> That's the experience they need from what I've been told. >> Yes. Yes. >> From what I've been told, that's much different. >> So, I'm concerned that maybe we overpaid because we didn't have somebody who and it's in alignment with the auditor general who says >> um looking at the reasons of the cost, >> right? And >> so, how much have we overpaid? I I do agree with that and I think it goes back to we see everything afterward. I mean by the time we saw GMP
121it's already been approved, >> right? And so hiring a new person to who has that experience um we've already approved the early the ERPs for two other projects. >> Can we hire can the district hire a person to look at those projects before we agree to >> that's what they talked about yesterday. That's in process. just as a liquor vid that if if that happens that should take care of things in my in my mind hiring another person is a different question we have to just see how that manifests itself but right now I think there's a question of who sits on the schoolboard side of the table >> that's been our question >> and I personally think that you're expecting the architect to do more than they are doing with respect to reviewing these
122costs. That was just been my experience that your the architect is supposed to put on your side of the table and they're supposed to check all the things that we're just talking about and the invoices that come through have to be certified by the architect of record and it has to be reasonable and legitimate cost and they are independent supposedly not related to the contractor and I I I think you guys should ask the question are you expecting that of your architects and are you getting it? Well, I've been involved in a couple of building projects and the architect usually does none of that. That was my experience. Now, every architect is different, but they're designers. They show up when it's over and say, "Oh, that's not right. Fix it." You know that that's >>
123we need more than than architect looking. >> The architect of record is given the architect of design >> and the architect of record is supposed to be the agent of the owner >> and and on big projects you hire what's called title three architects and they do the oversight on behalf of the owner. Well, that's different than last things you're getting now, but I don't know if it's if it's working, >> right? And that may be part of the issue completely. >> Yes, I >> I'd sure check out those procedures and all that and expectations before I hired somebody else. >> Question, but I don't. >> Okay. Any other questions on the audit? >> All righty. I want to bring up something for committee members. >> Sure. >> So, we've had several questions here tonight
124that relate to financial questions. >> I'm wondering, Mr. Chairman, can we get those answers out to us before the next meeting because I think some of those are very important for us to see. >> See, why not? >> Okay. >> I have my question is similar to what Wayne's is. But I have sat here and I haven't asked them very much. When the bond uh person was here, I asked them for a total amount of what the bond would cost at the end of the 30 years. And they never gave me an answer to the runaround. J.R. Grimes gave me the answer. Uh but I have heard these gentlemen, Muslim gentlemen and some of the ladies repeatedly request information. Every meeting they ask for information, come back at the next meeting. We don't have it.
125Is there any way short of getting a subpoena or sending Gabriel Loach after it for us to get that darn information we request? It's not a secret. It's public information. We're the bond oversight committee. Why can't we get the simple information that Dr. Hunter and Mr. Mlan and Evette and all and >> I haven't asked for a whole bunch of. We've asked for information. We don't get it. >> I don't want to throw Miss Alice under the bus. >> Alice nothing to do with it. >> No, no, no. I'm going to ask if you will detail exactly what you want to see. If you will send it to Miss Alice, >> send me an email. I mean, that's what Dr. Hunter did. That's what Miss Stanley did. You send me a question and then I
126have to then write what the question is that you're looking for and then >> then that need to communicate it >> and that can be disseminated to >> get your questions asked for it at the meeting. We don't need to send an extra email. >> I would I would follow up with an email. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Well, then the I'm sorry. The question then that we have several major financial questions. Do I need to send those in or are you going to do that? >> I would prefer if it's a question you have, you send it to Miss Alice and we will get the answers for you. >> Well, a couple of the reports that you mentioned earlier, are you going to be doing that or you want me to do it or
127we do it? >> The only No, I would send it to Alice. If it's a specific question you want, I want your your words so that you get the answer that you're looking for. >> Okay. So >> there's >> same thing we've asked for before the summary, but >> the only remaining question in my mind is this total cost question. >> So which we need to get and that's in the record from last time and it's in the record from this time. I talked to Greg about thinking Greg and quitting. He says no, we can't have access to all the information. So we can't get it through the through that channel. Should we get it? >> Do you need to send an email then? Well, I did before the question I sent to Alex and
128I did not get an answer to that because it was sent to the contractor. The contractor doesn't know all those costs and they just sent their costs. >> Did you get a satisfactory answer on the questions that you did? >> Yes, except for the one on the cost. But all the questions I asked, yes, the contractor gave a perfect answer. Clear laid it out. First of all, >> just a summary of all costs attributable to a school bond cost and land cost >> ahead of time >> anything to be associated. We're looking at $70 million school maybe 65. >> We got another one to $10 million more city. We're going to have to explain that some >> people are going to want to know that. >> Okay. Any other members have any comments? Mr. Hotelling,
129I apologize for this being so long. You're the only member of the public here. Would you like to speak? >> Who are you? >> Somebody's from near me. It's your turn. Amy, >> I'll need you to come up to the mic because they can't hear you when we record it. I guess you need to do your name and address. You know the routine. [laughter] >> You want I already give it for you? >> Tim Hoteling 105 Riverside Way San Mateo. I'd uh two gone over the the article and came up with some questions that I'm sort of fascinated. What's your what's your position there? what's your area of power and what isn't that I hadn't discovered but the findings probably with Miss Amy's uh the major thing is the district records do not identify the
130methodology used in factors considered to establish the reasonleness of the costs. That seems to be big along with a question that came up to mind uh as everybody was talking about the the virtues of the contingencies in in contrast to the effort of putting change orders through. And I was curious is if the documentation for the need of these variances, for lack of a better term, is any different. if if this contingency thing is just a way to get around and not have questions that need answered asked. And >> anything that goes through contingency comes to y'all to for approval before it even and then it goes to the board for approval. >> Well, again, it's question of documentation of the reasonleness and >> that sort of thing. >> The contingency items are the most
131documented. And the other thing being looking through the the uh elementary school list of charges and everything, there's probably I've found some explanations for some of the things, but like final cleaning at 92 grand uh seems duplicated by temporary labor at 192 grand uh which are two labors per week at $2,800. $100 a week and additional site cleaning and they're going to mow sod that's just been laid for five months at $3,000. Just seemed to me a lot of duplicitus and curious needs. Um, some of the the other thoughts are like the printers and the office equipment seem to be something that I would think that wouldn't be thrown away after 15 months. And is there any checking to to verify uh that they didn't just come off of the shelf and you're getting gigged
132$15,000 for something that was never bought. uh which all goes to the audit about the lack of checks and balances and and your questions as to what's the school's responsible for for policy versus what y'all are doing. Um >> the other tidbit that there's probably well and [clears throat] like why are you buying 16 cell phones at $1,000 a month? I my cell phone bill doesn't go anywhere near $1,000. Um, but again, that was in the original bid package, which I know it's water under the bridge, but the bottom line is you're building more schools. >> And so, how many more 16 are these guys retained on just one project, >> right? >> Are you going to be buying 16 phones 10 times over? And >> um >> and that goes right to >> and
133if you if you go plug into Google or into chat whatever and ask what the average um fee is for salary renumeration for project managers and all of these you'll see that they claim it's about half of what you're paying. And >> again, it >> can't argue with you. >> A lot of questions that I think really deserved well, which goes back to my pitch from last night. If you had a inspector general working for the schools, you could have put them on this chore ahead of time. Find what the best, you know, [clears throat] they'd go to a contractor that knows contract stuff. find the best practices and find where people are cheating so that we can keep an eyeball on it and and make your job easier and the taxpayer cheaper. But that's
134another pitch. >> Thank you. >> Can I ask a question? >> Sure. >> So, I did see that about the cell phone thing and that was Osley and it was like $12,000 or $16,000. I can't I don't know where it is right now. >> But >> they're not going to be doing the other two the other schools that are left, right? >> Cuz I I just And I I >> the thing I I meant to ask it while they were here, but what is that? Because it said internet you internet slash phones, cell phones. So what is that? And does it even matter because they're not doing the the next schools? >> Well, it matter for what we paid in the first round. >> Uhhuh. Yeah, I have to go back and check that. >>
135So that was one of the questions I had, but by the time I found my question, they had left. So >> So if we paid thousands of dollars for cell phones and laptops and equipment that they use during the construction process, if we paid for it, we have >> Should we have it or if they use it for the next project? Wise, >> anything we pay for, we get to keep. >> Did you keep any? >> Anything we pay for, we get to keep. Okay. >> Did you keep some of the laptops from >> Not yet. They're still on site. >> And then the other question, I mean, just I guess I can send it to Miss Alice, but it said repaint the multi-purpose and gym. And this was for the Palaca Intermediate School, but
136it's brand new. So, did they have to tear something down and then have to repaint it again? >> The colors didn't match. >> And that was $12,831. >> That sounds like something I would do. Did we see that when we were there? >> We uh you know we had the choice of either let it stay where it was redoing it ourselves or just running it through contingency and get it right. And our team just decided to get here. >> Okay. >> You where are you getting those? >> So it's on this thing. Let's see the one the construction summary job. >> Okay. For contingency. >> Yeah. It's for your question number three. >> Yeah. My question. Yeah. And so it said like the cell phone internet cost other and that was $15,554. >> If the
137paint didn't match, is everybody color blind? Couldn't they see the paint didn't match when they were painting it? >> Yes, sir. >> I mean, I painted my house. I painted my friends house, my family's houses inside and out. >> You want to paint that? >> Paint. I will. Uh >> I can tell when the colors don't match. If I go to Sher Williams or go to Home Depot and buy the paint, I can see if it doesn't match. I get a sample first to make sure it matches. >> I'm not going to argue with you. >> Match paint. >> Unless you're color blind and then you it wouldn't look right in the first place. >> You shouldn't be a painter. >> I mean, seriously. >> But those are all lessons learned. So, we won't make
138that same mistake on the next >> Well, that's But they don't make the same mistakes. >> Yeah, we didn't make that mistake. >> No, >> but we paid for it. That's the I think that's the >> We had to pay for it >> twice. Yeah. Right. Right. Like when the contractors didn't know or the engineer didn't know there was swamp with Kelly Smith. He didn't look at an aerial photograph. He didn't walk behind the school. He didn't know what Lil Swamp Land looked like. >> Well, that's what it cost. >> That's why he's not doing it again. >> I mean, seriously, >> public comment reminded question. >> What audit do we actually have going forward say the sp what what who will actually audit what? This audit was not about construction. This was a broad
139system. But who will it be? I have a particular question. >> I know how much they say they're paying their project managers. Somebody needs to check the payroll record to be sure that's what they do pay them. But remember we had trouble. They were double loading them back and we caught them off. Not they didn't do it intentionally. Just clarif on it and that cost her way up and they reduce them down. But who who checks who does the who who answers those questions? Who goes in and matches the payroll records against the supposed salary invoices? >> Not a question I can answer. I mean, >> that's a very good question. >> I answer your question. >> Our finance or the state? >> I hope ours. >> I was told the state was going to
140do an audit. It's not this audit, but I kind of audit to me, I do think in that area, I'd sure like to see the checks to see they really are paying a first entry project manager $250,000 a year. If they are, that's fine, but they got to pay them that much. Not just say they're paying that much, >> right? >> That's a question for our financial person. >> Yeah. But >> I do know this the state I went up and met with some actually Thompson. I met with one of the senators and this doesn't have anything to do with bonds, but it has to do with special facilities. And some of these same questions are being asked by them. And they are actually looking at they haven't authorized it yet, but they're looking at
141hiring like a contractor from each of the three consortia to to do exactly what is being suggested where they can go in and you know be on the ground and see what's being stranded. >> So right now there's no predetermined audit of the details unless the school district does one. Now, I said I said to during negotiating general contracts yesterday to James Marine, um almost direct quote I had was, "Okay, you're charging this for your fee." >> Yeah. >> We don't want to see somewhere in the future there's a published, you know, report that says you get paid x amount of dollars if you charge us why over here they match. >> But who checks some insurance? >> Who checks that? I mean, >> how how we actually get, you know, saying it out loud
142and and and actually getting it in your hand after. >> So, but unless we do something, there'll be no further audits. >> These are awfully big contracts not to have audits. >> Oh, I'm sure you're going to have plenty of audits at the district level. >> Who's going to audit? >> No idea. >> But >> write your congressman. I I don't know. >> You're saying there is an audit or there isn't one? >> I have no clue. >> Well, >> you're asking the wrong person. [laughter] Well, will but will there be an audit, independent audit by somebody who comes in and looks at the project we just finished and ascertains the cost against the invoices? >> We'll have another operational audit like we just had, but it's just specific to each project, not to my
143knowledge. >> I mean, that might be a question you could write or ask the auditor general's office. I mean, because I'm sure there's statewide that I'm sure that's a concern for everybody. I I don't know what the answer is. >> We asked other school district how they was audited after they built the school. >> I don't think it's common anywhere to be honest. >> Basically check the books. >> Believe it or not, this body isn't common anywhere else. >> Aren't we special? [laughter] >> You're right about that. >> I don't know. I I'm now left with I thought there was going to be some audits but now I guess there isn't going to unless we commission unless >> we don't know we don't know that we don't have that answer Jonathan as >> I will
144add that to my Jonathan list >> okay by the way audits if you follow audits you'll find most of them are superficial and they deal only with balancing the numbers they don't deal with concepts that are flawed >> oh I've had state audits and they they get in the weeds a couple of them with foundations Now I find they miss all the big stuff and get all the little stuff right. >> I've been burned by state audits. >> I've got a couple of insurance companies I'd like for you to [laughter] >> Yeah. They can audit you. >> Oh yeah. >> All right. Uh next meeting. >> Will we have one more thing for the minutes? Will we put that in the minutes? >> What? >> Yeah. He he run >> I don't do the minutes.
145>> Tell us the audience. >> No, he's got that question. >> I'm going to email Jonathan. >> Correct. Yes, ma'am. >> In the last couple of uh minutes, last couple meetings minutes, Jackie Porter is listed, but Okay. >> Didn't she um remove herself from the committee last December or January? >> She's still on the committee. She's not here today because her mother fell. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I thought that was a thing, but I thought she >> Oh, she just removed herself from that school board, right? Race. That's all. >> Yeah, she quit running for school. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> she's on this committee. I have one quick question you were bringing up about the committee's life cycle and did the school board decide what they're going to do or >> No sir >> I
146advised them that >> because me being on a year difference >> yeah the indication is they want us to continue but uh >> that wasn't before tonight [laughter] >> but Thomas is right this is a rare public oversight of a of a major oper set of operations in construction it's a refreshing thing It's sure been an education. >> Like I said, I've learned some acronyms. That's for sure. >> That's right. >> Any other uh Oh, next meeting. So, >> you have one more thing. >> Oh, sorry. >> Um, can we um not have our meetings canled in the future? >> Okay. So, >> meeting for last week was canled and then with no reason given and then rescheduled for this week. >> So, you emailed me directly and under sunshine law I cannot reply to
147you. So the the reason I and then Alice sent out the reason the reason was we had asked for specific items from Jonathan that were not ready. There were really no true updates on the projects. The schools have not there's not a lot going on. We heard updates today but we they weren't substantial. So those two items did not constitute having an a meeting in my opinion. So I canceled the meeting. >> You cancelled it. Okay. that wasn't >> the stated the audit came out and I saw >> four or five other emails that we needed to have a meeting so we scheduled a meeting for tonight and that's why we're meeting >> okay >> and if I want to cancel a meeting in the future I we'll send that out but we need to
148schedule the next meeting we heard the GMP for one might be the end of January the other one's going to be probably March 1st >> I thought we had a meeting already scheduled for February the 18th >> I did too >> we did that was >> but it's not been cancelceled it's still on the books, isn't it? >> We can keep it. >> I mean, >> that's where I had moved the next meeting to. So, if we want to keep it there, we can. >> I don't think we need to meet in December, borrowing another article from the Daily News. >> I can't handle a meeting till February. [laughter] >> It's way past my bad time. I know it's past Wayne's. >> Thank you. >> The only the only point though is I would like
149to get the which I'm repeating myself now. I'd like to get the answers to some of these financial issues question before the next meeting. I don't want to >> correct. So, I'm going to email Jonathan. Everyone else emailed Alice. I will make a point to meet with Alice at some point. We will compile what we can and send it out ahead of time so it's fresh and not on February 17th or something like that. >> Is it possible to do the second Wednesday instead of third Wednesdays? >> Uh, throw the date out there. >> As long as Alice has it, we're all right. What would the second February I mean the second Wednesday? >> Uh February 11th. >> Thank you. >> Would it be February the 10th? If it's the 17th Tuesday, >> it's February
15011th. >> 11th is a Wednesday. >> Okay. >> I'm okay if y'all are. >> I'm wrong with it. >> All right. February 11th. >> I live week to week. >> Where are you going to be? I said I'll live week to week. [laughter] >> I do. You you do hour to hour. >> I think that's the week that we're association accountants, but I that's all good for >> Mr. Chairman. I I do think it was essential that we reviewed the financials for the Horseman's Club School. >> I I loud and clear. >> They're just they just had just come in and they were hot off the press and we now have them and I personally feel pretty good about it's very important we go through that. Good. >> All right, this meeting is journed. Thank
151you.